From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 1 10:56:19 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 08:56:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Text field not editable, weird issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I tried all of that, I even put debug.print statements in all of the control events and in various subs that were being called. I found that the condition would occur when the path was taken along the first half of the IF statement. I was able to replicate this problem on another computer using A2003. I changed the code to open a recordset, rather than selecting a row in the listbox and reading values from hidden columns and it now works. Looks like a bug in 2003 that was fixed in 2007. This code works: DoCmd.SetWarnings False Me.lstModelSumm.RowSource = "EXEC dbo.stpSelectTempMach 0" Me.lstPoResults.RowSource = "EXEC dbo.stpPurchasedMachinesByPO '" & Me.txtTranNo & "'" DoCmd.SetWarnings True Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset Set rs = New ADODB.Recordset 'Call the stored procedure, passing it the parameter, returning recordset rs CurrentProject.Connection.stpPurchasedMachinesByPO IIf(Nz(Me.txtTranNo, "") = "", 0, Me.txtTranNo), rs 'Fill in the fields from the returned recordset If Not rs.BOF And Not rs.EOF Then 'code below is the same as sub: PopulateFields Me.txtVendorCode = RTrim(Nz(rs![vendor_code], "")) Me.txtVendorName = Nz(rs![vendor_name], "") Me.txtTranDate = rs![po_date] Me.txtPoStatus = Nz(rs![po_status], "") Me.txtQty = Nz(rs![Qty], 0) Me.txtCostBasis = Nz(rs![CostBasis], 0) Me.txtModel = RTrim(Nz(rs![ItemNo], "")) Me.txtModelID = Nz(rs![ModelID], "") Me.cboLocationKey = CInt(Nz(rs![LocKeyID], "0")) Call cboLocationKey_Change Me.lstModelSumm.RowSource = "EXEC dbo.stpSelectTempMach 1" Me.cmdEnterSN.Enabled = CanAddAnotherMachine() Else 'No records were returned for given tran no MsgBox "The PO number you entered did not return any records", vbOKOnly, "Invalid PO" Call ClearEntryFields End If rs.Close Set rs = Nothing On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Is this the only user or just the only one having problems? Is there a > copy of the ADP on her box or is she accessing it from a network site? If > the app is on her machine, have you done a decompile and recompile on the > app? Once in a while breakpoints will get stuck and only recompiling will > get rid of them. If you comment out all the code in that routine but leave > the shell, does the application run without an error? Is the next control > in the tab order one of the two you're resetting the rowsource on? > > Charlotte Foust > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Tue Nov 1 14:00:44 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:00:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions References: Message-ID: All, I have a couple questions about Import/Export Specifications (Access 2007). Once a specification is set up, is there a way to change the spec other than making believe that you are setting up a new spec? Also, is it possible to get at the spec with VBA code? Thanks, Brad From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Tue Nov 1 14:30:06 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:30:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> Brad, The specs are located in system files MSysIMEXSpecs and MSysIMEXColumns. Since they are tables I suppose you can modify them but probably not easy and you may not be able to write to system files. The name of export Specs is located in the XSpecs table and the ID assigned, then the column definitions and spacing are in the XColumns table by ID number. I think if you look at them you will be able to easily identify what is going on. The ability to show how to un hide them is cleverly hidden by right clicking on the top of the Navigation page and selecting Navigation options. HTH Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:00 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions All, I have a couple questions about Import/Export Specifications (Access 2007). Once a specification is set up, is there a way to change the spec other than making believe that you are setting up a new spec? Also, is it possible to get at the spec with VBA code? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Tue Nov 1 15:16:39 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:16:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions In-Reply-To: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> References: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> Message-ID: I agree about the probable difficulty of modify the specs, but it's simple enough to do it manually. Just start a manual import as usual, select the import spec you want to modify, which does most of the hard work for you, and then make changes to it as needed. Finally save it with a different name with the 'Save As' button on the Import Specification dialog box. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 3:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions Brad, The specs are located in system files MSysIMEXSpecs and MSysIMEXColumns. Since they are tables I suppose you can modify them but probably not easy and you may not be able to write to system files. The name of export Specs is located in the XSpecs table and the ID assigned, then the column definitions and spacing are in the XColumns table by ID number. I think if you look at them you will be able to easily identify what is going on. The ability to show how to un hide them is cleverly hidden by right clicking on the top of the Navigation page and selecting Navigation options. HTH Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:00 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions All, I have a couple questions about Import/Export Specifications (Access 2007). Once a specification is set up, is there a way to change the spec other than making believe that you are setting up a new spec? Also, is it possible to get at the spec with VBA code? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Tue Nov 1 16:05:53 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:05:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions References: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> Message-ID: Bill and Lambert, Thanks for the help. You have answered my questions. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 3:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions I agree about the probable difficulty of modify the specs, but it's simple enough to do it manually. Just start a manual import as usual, select the import spec you want to modify, which does most of the hard work for you, and then make changes to it as needed. Finally save it with a different name with the 'Save As' button on the Import Specification dialog box. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 3:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions Brad, The specs are located in system files MSysIMEXSpecs and MSysIMEXColumns. Since they are tables I suppose you can modify them but probably not easy and you may not be able to write to system files. The name of export Specs is located in the XSpecs table and the ID assigned, then the column definitions and spacing are in the XColumns table by ID number. I think if you look at them you will be able to easily identify what is going on. The ability to show how to un hide them is cleverly hidden by right clicking on the top of the Navigation page and selecting Navigation options. HTH Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:00 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions All, I have a couple questions about Import/Export Specifications (Access 2007). Once a specification is set up, is there a way to change the spec other than making believe that you are setting up a new spec? Also, is it possible to get at the spec with VBA code? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Nov 1 19:45:58 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:45:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions In-Reply-To: References: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> Message-ID: <00bd01cc98f8$ca088890$5e1999b0$@net> I've faced this same "pain": the import file gets changed (unknowingly) and now the import references gets all messed up....and of course, the entire system you built...crashes. Below is good advice. Modifying the system specs sounds easy...but IT IS NOT ! > Just start a manual import as usual, select the import spec you want to > modify, which does most of the hard work for you, and then make changes > to it as needed. Finally save it with a different name with the 'Save > As' button on the Import Specification dialog box. > From pedro at plex.nl Thu Nov 3 09:43:58 2011 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 09:43:58 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> Dear Group, how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". Data Uitv Sub Patient A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 Result Uitv Sub Unique Patient A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 Thanks Pedro Janssen From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Nov 3 04:00:06 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 10:00:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: Hi Pedro First use a query with DISTINCT to remove the double entries like A-ee-101. Then use this query as source in another query whery you group by Uitv and Sub and count Patient. /gustav >>> pedro at plex.nl 03-11-2011 09:43 >>> Dear Group, how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". Data Uitv Sub Patient A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 Result Uitv Sub Unique Patient A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 Thanks Pedro Janssen From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 11:49:07 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 09:49:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> Message-ID: SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > Dear Group, > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > Data > > Uitv Sub Patient > A ee 101 > A ee 101 > A ee 102 > A ff 201 > A gg 301 > B ee 201 > B ee 301 > B hh 501 > > > > Result > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > A ee 2 > A ff 1 > A gg 1 > B ee 2 > B hh 1 > > > Thanks > > Pedro Janssen > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 3 15:53:27 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 06:53:27 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, Message-ID: <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query first to get rid of the duplicates. On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > FROM tblSomeTable > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > > Dear Group, > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > Data > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > A ee 101 > > A ee 101 > > A ee 102 > > A ff 201 > > A gg 301 > > B ee 201 > > B ee 301 > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > Result > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > A ee 2 > > A ff 1 > > A gg 1 > > B ee 2 > > B hh 1 > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 16:07:43 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 14:07:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Only if UniquePatient is the field you're extracting. Just counting the records returned gives you the number of unique patients, and the unique combinations of Uitv and Sub are there in each record. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > > Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query > first to get rid of the > duplicates. > > On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > FROM tblSomeTable > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > > > Data > > > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > > A ee 101 > > > A ee 101 > > > A ee 102 > > > A ff 201 > > > A gg 301 > > > B ee 201 > > > B ee 301 > > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > > > > > Result > > > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > > A ee 2 > > > A ff 1 > > > A gg 1 > > > B ee 2 > > > B hh 1 > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 16:08:39 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 14:08:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable PKID Uitv Sub Patient ----------- ---- ---- ----------- 1 A ee 101 2 A ee 102 3 A ff 201 4 A gg 301 5 B ee 201 6 B ee 301 7 B hh 501 (7 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. I do not see how Jet would be different. David On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > > Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query > first to get rid of the > duplicates. > > On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > FROM tblSomeTable > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > > > Data > > > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > > A ee 101 > > > A ee 101 > > > A ee 102 > > > A ff 201 > > > A gg 301 > > > B ee 201 > > > B ee 301 > > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > > > > > Result > > > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > > A ee 2 > > > A ff 1 > > > A gg 1 > > > B ee 2 > > > B hh 1 > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From garykjos at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 16:18:00 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 16:18:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Well the original example had TWO A ee 101 records and I agree with Stuart that it would return 3 and not 2 for the simple group by with count in the same one. It needs a double query somehow, two group bys the first to eliminate the dups or a distinct to eliminate the dups lest you double count. Count will count ALL the records that it sees won't it? On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:08 PM, David McAfee wrote: > SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable > > PKID ? ? ? ?Uitv Sub ?Patient > ----------- ---- ---- ----------- > 1 ? ? ? ? ? A ? ?ee ? 101 > 2 ? ? ? ? ? A ? ?ee ? 102 > 3 ? ? ? ? ? A ? ?ff ? 201 > 4 ? ? ? ? ? A ? ?gg ? 301 > 5 ? ? ? ? ? B ? ?ee ? 201 > 6 ? ? ? ? ? B ? ?ee ? 301 > 7 ? ? ? ? ? B ? ?hh ? 501 > > (7 row(s) affected) > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > FROM tblSomeTable > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > Uitv Sub ?UniquePatient > ---- ---- ------------- > A ? ?ee ? 2 > A ? ?ff ? 1 > A ? ?gg ? 1 > B ? ?ee ? 2 > B ? ?hh ? 1 > > (5 row(s) affected) > > Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. > I do not see how Jet would be different. > > David > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >> That won't work, it will return 3 ? for A - ee. >> >> Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query >> first to get rid of the >> duplicates. >> >> On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: >> >> > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient >> > FROM tblSomeTable >> > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub >> > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: >> > >> > > Dear Group, >> > > >> > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". >> > > >> > > Data >> > > >> > > Uitv ? ?Sub ? ? Patient >> > > A ? ? ? ee ? ? ?101 >> > > A ? ? ? ee ? ? ?101 >> > > A ? ? ? ee ? ? ?102 >> > > A ? ? ? ff ? ? ?201 >> > > A ? ? ? gg ? ? ?301 >> > > B ? ? ? ee ? ? ?201 >> > > B ? ? ? ee ? ? ?301 >> > > B ? ? ? hh ? ? ?501 >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Result >> > > >> > > Uitv ? ?Sub ? ? Unique Patient >> > > A ? ? ? ee ? ? ? ?2 >> > > A ? ? ? ff ? ? ? ?1 >> > > A ? ? ? gg ? ? ? ?1 >> > > B ? ? ? ee ? ? ? ?2 >> > > B ? ? ? hh ? ? ? ?1 >> > > >> > > >> > > Thanks >> > > >> > > Pedro Janssen >> > > >> > > -- >> > > AccessD mailing list >> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 17:06:03 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 15:06:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I just tried it in Access and it works just like SQL Server. I can email you a zipped mdb On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > Well the original example had TWO A ee 101 records and I agree with > Stuart that it would return 3 and not 2 for the simple group by with > count in the same one. It needs a double query somehow, two group bys > the first to eliminate the dups or a distinct to eliminate the dups > lest you double count. Count will count ALL the records that it sees > won't it? > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:08 PM, David McAfee > wrote: > > SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable > > > > PKID Uitv Sub Patient > > ----------- ---- ---- ----------- > > 1 A ee 101 > > 2 A ee 102 > > 3 A ff 201 > > 4 A gg 301 > > 5 B ee 201 > > 6 B ee 301 > > 7 B hh 501 > > > > (7 row(s) affected) > > > > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > FROM tblSomeTable > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > Uitv Sub UniquePatient > > ---- ---- ------------- > > A ee 2 > > A ff 1 > > A gg 1 > > B ee 2 > > B hh 1 > > > > (5 row(s) affected) > > > > Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. > > I do not see how Jet would be different. > > > > David > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan >wrote: > > > >> That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > >> > >> Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query > >> first to get rid of the > >> duplicates. > >> > >> On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > >> > >> > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > >> > FROM tblSomeTable > >> > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > >> > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > >> > > >> > > >> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > >> > > >> > > Dear Group, > >> > > > >> > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > >> > > > >> > > Data > >> > > > >> > > Uitv Sub Patient > >> > > A ee 101 > >> > > A ee 101 > >> > > A ee 102 > >> > > A ff 201 > >> > > A gg 301 > >> > > B ee 201 > >> > > B ee 301 > >> > > B hh 501 > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Result > >> > > > >> > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > >> > > A ee 2 > >> > > A ff 1 > >> > > A gg 1 > >> > > B ee 2 > >> > > B hh 1 > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Thanks > >> > > > >> > > Pedro Janssen > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > AccessD mailing list > >> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > >> > -- > >> > AccessD mailing list > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Nov 3 17:25:05 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 23:25:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> Message-ID: <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> Pedro, I don't understand your example with the data provided. Could you please tell if you made some typos - especially: Why is the data "A ee 102" not listed or counted in the result, and why is the data "B ee 201" and "B ee 301" listed as a count of 2 in the result? IOW: What's defining a unique entity for the counting in your example: Uitv + Sub or Uitv + Sub + Patient? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af pedro at plex.nl Sendt: 3. november 2011 09:44 Til: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: [AccessD] unique patients Dear Group, how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". Data Uitv Sub Patient A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 Result Uitv Sub Unique Patient A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 Thanks Pedro Janssen -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 3 17:24:22 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 08:24:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, , Message-ID: <4EB31496.30547.4A0CBDE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> WIth the original dataset, not the cleansed one? -- Stuart On 3 Nov 2011 at 15:06, David McAfee wrote: > I just tried it in Access and it works just like SQL Server. > > I can email you a zipped mdb > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > > > Well the original example had TWO A ee 101 records and I agree with > > Stuart that it would return 3 and not 2 for the simple group by with > > count in the same one. It needs a double query somehow, two group > > bys the first to eliminate the dups or a distinct to eliminate the > > dups lest you double count. Count will count ALL the records that it > > sees won't it? > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:08 PM, David McAfee > > wrote: > > > SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable > > > > > > PKID Uitv Sub Patient > > > ----------- ---- ---- ----------- > > > 1 A ee 101 > > > 2 A ee 102 > > > 3 A ff 201 > > > 4 A gg 301 > > > 5 B ee 201 > > > 6 B ee 301 > > > 7 B hh 501 > > > > > > (7 row(s) affected) > > > > > > > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > > FROM tblSomeTable > > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > > > Uitv Sub UniquePatient > > > ---- ---- ------------- > > > A ee 2 > > > A ff 1 > > > A gg 1 > > > B ee 2 > > > B hh 1 > > > > > > (5 row(s) affected) > > > > > > Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. > > > I do not see how Jet would be different. > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan > > > > >wrote: > > > > > >> That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > > >> > > >> Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select > > >> Distinct Query first to get rid of the duplicates. > > >> > > >> On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > >> > > >> > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > >> > FROM tblSomeTable > > >> > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > >> > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Dear Group, > > >> > > > > >> > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > >> > > > > >> > > Data > > >> > > > > >> > > Uitv Sub Patient > > >> > > A ee 101 > > >> > > A ee 101 > > >> > > A ee 102 > > >> > > A ff 201 > > >> > > A gg 301 > > >> > > B ee 201 > > >> > > B ee 301 > > >> > > B hh 501 > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Result > > >> > > > > >> > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > >> > > A ee 2 > > >> > > A ff 1 > > >> > > A gg 1 > > >> > > B ee 2 > > >> > > B hh 1 > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Thanks > > >> > > > > >> > > Pedro Janssen > > >> > > > > >> > > -- > > >> > > AccessD mailing list > > >> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > > >> > -- > > >> > AccessD mailing list > > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gary Kjos > > garykjos at gmail.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 3 17:24:22 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 08:24:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4EB31496.7808.4A0CC6A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You've changed the data set to suit your code, Essentially doing wht the suggested "pre-query" does. The original data was: A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 ... On 3 Nov 2011 at 14:08, David McAfee wrote: > SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable > > PKID Uitv Sub Patient > ----------- ---- ---- ----------- > 1 A ee 101 > 2 A ee 102 > 3 A ff 201 > 4 A gg 301 > 5 B ee 201 > 6 B ee 301 > 7 B hh 501 > > (7 row(s) affected) > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > FROM tblSomeTable > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > Uitv Sub UniquePatient > ---- ---- ------------- > A ee 2 > A ff 1 > A gg 1 > B ee 2 > B hh 1 > > (5 row(s) affected) > > Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. I > do not see how Jet would be different. > > David > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > > That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > > > > Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct > > Query first to get rid of the duplicates. > > > > On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > > FROM tblSomeTable > > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > > > > > Data > > > > > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > > > A ee 101 > > > > A ee 101 > > > > A ee 102 > > > > A ff 201 > > > > A gg 301 > > > > B ee 201 > > > > B ee 301 > > > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Result > > > > > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > > > A ee 2 > > > > A ff 1 > > > > A gg 1 > > > > B ee 2 > > > > B hh 1 > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 3 17:35:46 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 08:35:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> Message-ID: <4EB31742.25998.4AB3CF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No typos, he wants the number of Unique patients having the same Uitv and Sub. A ee has three records, A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 but two unique patients, 101 and 102. Hence: A ee 2 Similary B ee has two unique patients 201 and 301, hence: B ee 2 -- Stuart On 3 Nov 2011 at 23:25, Asger Blond wrote: > Pedro, > I don't understand your example with the data provided. Could you > please tell if you made some typos - especially: Why is the data "A ee > 102" not listed or counted in the result, and why is the data "B ee > 201" and "B ee 301" listed as a count of 2 in the result? IOW: What's > defining a unique entity for the counting in your example: Uitv + Sub > or Uitv + Sub + Patient? Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af > pedro at plex.nl Sendt: 3. november 2011 09:44 Til: > accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: [AccessD] unique patients > > Dear Group, > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > Data > > Uitv Sub Patient > A ee 101 > A ee 101 > A ee 102 > A ff 201 > A gg 301 > B ee 201 > B ee 301 > B hh 501 > > > > Result > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > A ee 2 > A ff 1 > A gg 1 > B ee 2 > B hh 1 > > > Thanks > > Pedro Janssen > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 17:42:50 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 15:42:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <4EB31496.30547.4A0CBDE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB31496.30547.4A0CBDE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Wow, my eyes or mind must have filtered that second line out when typing the records in. SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient PKID Uitv Sub Patient ----------- ---- ---- ----------- 1 A ee 101 8 A ee 101 2 A ee 102 3 A ff 201 4 A gg 301 5 B ee 201 6 B ee 301 7 B hh 501 (8 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient Uitv Sub Patient ---- ---- ----------- A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 (7 row(s) affected) --Either of these work the same, not sure which is faster/better: SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT DISTINCT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > WIth the original dataset, not the cleansed one? > > -- > Stuart > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Nov 3 18:12:12 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 00:12:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <4EB31742.25998.4AB3CF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> <4EB31742.25998.4AB3CF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <2F0D334405F2453A8AD1967A00129D65@abpc> I see - thanks Stuart. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan Sendt: 3. november 2011 23:36 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] unique patients No typos, he wants the number of Unique patients having the same Uitv and Sub. A ee has three records, A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 but two unique patients, 101 and 102. Hence: A ee 2 Similary B ee has two unique patients 201 and 301, hence: B ee 2 -- Stuart On 3 Nov 2011 at 23:25, Asger Blond wrote: > Pedro, > I don't understand your example with the data provided. Could you > please tell if you made some typos - especially: Why is the data "A ee > 102" not listed or counted in the result, and why is the data "B ee > 201" and "B ee 301" listed as a count of 2 in the result? IOW: What's > defining a unique entity for the counting in your example: Uitv + Sub > or Uitv + Sub + Patient? Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af > pedro at plex.nl Sendt: 3. november 2011 09:44 Til: > accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: [AccessD] unique patients > > Dear Group, > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > Data > > Uitv Sub Patient > A ee 101 > A ee 101 > A ee 102 > A ff 201 > A gg 301 > B ee 201 > B ee 301 > B hh 501 > > > > Result > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > A ee 2 > A ff 1 > A gg 1 > B ee 2 > B hh 1 > > > Thanks > > Pedro Janssen > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 18:32:43 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 16:32:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <2F0D334405F2453A8AD1967A00129D65@abpc> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> <4EB31742.25998.4AB3CF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <2F0D334405F2453A8AD1967A00129D65@abpc> Message-ID: You can do this in TSQL, but access doesn't allow it SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(DISTINCT Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > I see - thanks Stuart. > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan > Sendt: 3. november 2011 23:36 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: Re: [AccessD] unique patients > > No typos, he wants the number of Unique patients having the same Uitv and > Sub. > > A ee has three records, > > A ee 101 > A ee 101 > A ee 102 > > but two unique patients, 101 and 102. > > Hence: > A ee 2 > > Similary B ee has two unique patients 201 and 301, hence: > > B ee 2 > > -- > Stuart > > On 3 Nov 2011 at 23:25, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Pedro, > > I don't understand your example with the data provided. Could you > > please tell if you made some typos - especially: Why is the data "A ee > > 102" not listed or counted in the result, and why is the data "B ee > > 201" and "B ee 301" listed as a count of 2 in the result? IOW: What's > > defining a unique entity for the counting in your example: Uitv + Sub > > or Uitv + Sub + Patient? Asger > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af > > pedro at plex.nl Sendt: 3. november 2011 09:44 Til: > > accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: [AccessD] unique patients > > > > Dear Group, > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > Data > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > A ee 101 > > A ee 101 > > A ee 102 > > A ff 201 > > A gg 301 > > B ee 201 > > B ee 301 > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > Result > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > A ee 2 > > A ff 1 > > A gg 1 > > B ee 2 > > B hh 1 > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Nov 3 18:58:48 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 00:58:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net><4EB31496.30547.4A0CBDE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4480900DEA8F48FCB0796163F3E9C492@abpc> Excellent David! As to performance, testing the two queries in SQL Server shows the same execution plan (which doesn't necessarily mean that the plan and cost would be the same with a different and bigger dataset - but I would guess not). Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee Sendt: 3. november 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] unique patients Wow, my eyes or mind must have filtered that second line out when typing the records in. SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient PKID Uitv Sub Patient ----------- ---- ---- ----------- 1 A ee 101 8 A ee 101 2 A ee 102 3 A ff 201 4 A gg 301 5 B ee 201 6 B ee 301 7 B hh 501 (8 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient Uitv Sub Patient ---- ---- ----------- A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 (7 row(s) affected) --Either of these work the same, not sure which is faster/better: SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT DISTINCT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > WIth the original dataset, not the cleansed one? > > -- > Stuart > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 3 23:45:29 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 00:45:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/amd-to-ax-1400-workers-in-cost-cutting-move -2011-11-03 This really vindicates my "experience" recently with an AMD-approved motherboard vendor and AMD-approved BIOS vendor.....and AMD's own Radeon ATI graphics chipset vendor. The whole experience was "HBB" - Horrible Beyond Belief. Mostly software related...drivers...update software....chipset firmware.....and IMHO: A true symptom of all of the outsourcing going on. Low cost, and Low quality. AMD: Syanara...this is my last AMD build. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Thu Nov 3 23:56:50 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 04:56:50 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55CA841@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <> Your link didn't work. I think this is the correct one. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Friday, 4 November 2011 3:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun http://www.marketwatch.com/story/amd-to-ax-1400-workers-in-cost-cutting-move -2011-11-03 This really vindicates my "experience" recently with an AMD-approved motherboard vendor and AMD-approved BIOS vendor.....and AMD's own Radeon ATI graphics chipset vendor. The whole experience was "HBB" - Horrible Beyond Belief. Mostly software related...drivers...update software....chipset firmware.....and IMHO: A true symptom of all of the outsourcing going on. Low cost, and Low quality. AMD: Syanara...this is my last AMD build. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 4 06:53:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 07:53:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> Message-ID: <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> Mark, I'm confused. You had a bad experience with a build, which I can empathize with. However every motherboard vendor out there does 90% Intel stuff and 10% AMD stuff. Getting support from any vendor is a nightmare, Intel or AMD. In the end though it is mostly the MB vendor that is responsible for making drivers and such easily available for their product. The drivers themselves come from the chip vendor but the BIOS is the MB vendor's responsibility and the BIOS vendor's responsibility. It sounded to me as if had you gone with a "modern" motherboard to match your modern everything else you would likely never have had this HBB experience. I like AMD, but I do not consider myself a fanboy. I came very close to building an Intel i7 system this time around just because I needed performance. But I have built almost nothing but AMD over the years and I have never had a HBB experience. In fact IMO the experience has been getting better, especially in the video driver department. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/4/2011 12:45 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > http://www.marketwatch.com/story/amd-to-ax-1400-workers-in-cost-cutting-move > -2011-11-03 > This really vindicates my "experience" recently with an AMD-approved > motherboard vendor and AMD-approved BIOS vendor.....and AMD's own Radeon ATI > graphics chipset vendor. > The whole experience was "HBB" - Horrible Beyond Belief. > Mostly software related...drivers...update software....chipset > firmware.....and IMHO: > A true symptom of all of the outsourcing going on. > Low cost, and Low quality. > AMD: Syanara...this is my last AMD build. > > > From marksimms at verizon.net Fri Nov 4 09:30:24 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 10:30:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> Sorry John, but my experience with MSI and AMD were really quite different. They've got this Live Update function for BIOS and Driver updates....you click on a button and the stuff downloads and tells you what needs to be updated. Get this: It has no "Run now" feature...and no link to even tell you or take you to where the downloaded update file is located...I can't find it ! There's nothing to "click on". After my initial frustration, I had to laugh about this..... This is the kind of stuff that occurs with poor technical management and poor beta testing. I researched that motherboard and it got good reviews. I have not been able to update the BIOS because of the above, and I cannot update the SSD firmware either as this motherboard does not behave well with SSD drives...and I am NOT going to reinstall Win7 all over again just to accommodate AHCI mode of operation when in fact, no one has been able to tell me how much advantage over IDE it would achieve. I guess I am the "poster child" for a software guy trying to do hardware stuff. Heck, I should have hired you instead ! From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 4 10:28:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:28:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> Message-ID: <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, I don't sell that kind of service (for a reason!) I absolutely understand the frustration but I guess my point is that "I'm done with AMD" is kind of mis-directed. Each motherboard manufacturer is responsible for their web site (which you are having problems with) and providing updates for the bios, drivers and utilities. I can tell you from similar experiences that all the manufacturer web sites pretty much suck. I have done this ASUS for the last build and had the same experience - and ASUS is one of the big boys! But if you had bought an older Intel MB you probably would have hit that exact same brick wall. I do feel your pain though. If we don't have a lot of money to spend it is beyond frustrating to carefully research stuff only to hit these kinds of issues. And it is extremely disconcerting to be placed in such a situation. One of the things that is always recommended is to do the build as quickly as you can and within the 30 day period where you can send stuff back if it doesn't work. If this build were me I would be sending the MB back and moving to another mb. Maybe a different manufacturer, but definitely newer mb. My build experience is long and varied. The last non-laptop computer I purchased was 1989. I have built every single computer since then, and I have probably averaged at least one every couple of years. Or at least a major upgrade. As an example I built two "servers" back in 2004 for handling the SQL Server database client. The technology I could afford at the time was AMD 3800 (single core), 4 gigs RAM, Windows 2003 X32 and SQL Server 2000 X32. From there I upgraded the processor to dual core. I then replaced the motherboard and moved to a quad core, upgraded to Windows 2003 X64 and upgraded my memory to 8 gigs. Then I upgraded to 16 gigs. Last year I built an entirely new system with a dual socket AMD with only one 8 core processor (one socket populated) and 16 gigs of memory. Then 32 gigs of memory. Then populated the other socket with another 8 core chip and 32 gigs of memory. So I kind of do things piece meal as I can afford them. But clear in all of this is the concept of a modern AMD motherboard. The modern (at the time of build) motherboard allows me to upgrade the other pieces for several years. My experience over the years is that no system will last more than about 5 years *for our purposes*, after which I have needed to upgrade the power supply and motherboard, usually keeping the old processor and memory then upgrading those pieces later. This latest build was for my VM server, and I made the switch from DDR2 to DDR3 memory which required a new motherboard, but the AMD processor had a controller that "just worked" with the new DDR3 ram. The old processor "just worked" placing it into a brand new AM3+ motherboard. I just gave away my old AM2+ motherboard to Paul (my programmer) who built an Unraid server with it for his house. I tend to be able to "repurpose" my AMD systems for a long time handing them down to systems with lower requirements than my dev machines and servers. I like AMD for that reason. Intel (and I admit I don't have a ton of experience) seems to require more frequent motherboard / cpu changes. It feels like if you change the (Intel) processor you probably have to change the mb and if you change the mb you will probably have to change the processor. Anyway, all I can offer is my condolences. You seem to be stuck now. If you have any friends close by perhaps they could help you get your SSD updated? John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/4/2011 10:30 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Sorry John, but my experience with MSI and AMD were really quite different. > They've got this Live Update function for BIOS and Driver updates....you > click on a button and the stuff downloads and tells you what needs to be > updated. > Get this: It has no "Run now" feature...and no link to even tell you or take > you to where the downloaded update file is located...I can't find it ! > There's nothing to "click on". > After my initial frustration, I had to laugh about this..... > This is the kind of stuff that occurs with poor technical management and > poor beta testing. > > I researched that motherboard and it got good reviews. I have not been able > to update the BIOS because of the above, and I cannot update the SSD > firmware either as this motherboard does not behave well with SSD > drives...and I am NOT going to reinstall Win7 all over again just to > accommodate AHCI mode of operation when in fact, no one has been able to > tell me how much advantage over IDE it would achieve. > > I guess I am the "poster child" for a software guy trying to do hardware > stuff. > Heck, I should have hired you instead ! > > > From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri Nov 4 13:43:12 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 14:43:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <> Man, licensing costs must be killing you... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 11:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun LOL, I don't sell that kind of service (for a reason!) <> From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 4 16:38:46 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 07:38:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com>, <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com>, Message-ID: <4EB45B66.31477.99D6FF3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> What version numbers really mean: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/04/bofh_2011_episode_17/ From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 05:28:32 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 06:28:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. Arthur On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < Server database client. The > technology I could afford at the time was AMD 3800 (single core), 4 gigs > RAM, Windows 2003 X32 and > SQL Server 2000 X32. From there I upgraded the processor to dual core. I > then replaced the > motherboard and moved to a quad core, upgraded to Windows 2003 X64 and > upgraded my memory to 8 gigs. > Then I upgraded to 16 gigs. Last year I built an entirely new system with > a dual socket AMD with > only one 8 core processor (one socket populated) and 16 gigs of memory. > Then 32 gigs of memory. > Then populated the other socket with another 8 core chip and 32 gigs of > memory.>> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 5 09:06:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 10:06:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. LOL, I dream of winning the powerball just like the rest. I actually borrowed $5000 as a business loan from my mother to build the first two servers in 2004 in order to get this client. In the first 16 months I grossed 10K and I was beginning to wonder if this client was ever going to "pay off". I did everything on SQL Server completely manually and learned as I went. SSMS was my biggest "enemy" as I struggled to figure out how do do all this stuff. Understand that while I had recovered the cost of the hardware I was spending massive time "off the clock" learning how to do sql server and stuff. I was extremely broke at that point and when the client asked "can you do this" I said "YES I CAN!" but hadn't a clue how I was going to do it. I would bet I grossed about $10 an hour those first 16 months on that client's work. I got the client in the first place because his business was with a company that gave him bad service. He was "small potatoes" to this big service company and they would take days to give him counts and pass him from person to person within the company to service his account. It was the fact that I did all of that prep and gave the client immediate service that caused him to eventually give me all of the business that had been with this other company. In the next three years my gross from him increased 20K a year as I gave him what he needed and he placed more and more of his business with me. In addition to all that I took C# and have since designed a custom application to automate the tasks that I have to do for him. Now I actually bill for every hour spent and I even bill for "jobs" which take almost no manual labor. Over the years my client has directly paid about 50% of the direct costs of the servers. When I just didn't have the cash for $2K worth of raid controllers and disks I asked him to write a check for that and he did. I didn't have the cash for the new server so he paid the up front cost to build the machine. I later purchased additional memory, SSDS and such. Understand that in the end, the client pays for everything, since anything that I buy comes after I pay my bills. It wasn't hard to convince the client that his needs required more than a quad core and 16 gigs of memory. I am doing sql kind of stuff, performing where clauses on as many as 20 fields at a time on tens of millions of rows, and joining together tables with tens of millions of rows, in order to get result sets of millions of rows which get exported to disk as fixed width files and csv files. My poor quad core 16 gig machine was struggling! SQL Server is incredibly efficient and the more cores and the more memory you throw at it the faster it gets. By moving to compression I decreased the size on disk, decreased the disk I/O to get this stuff into memory and decreased the footprint of the data in memory so more stuff is loaded at a time, but you need processor power to do the decompression as the data is used in memory. 16 cores, 64 gigs and compression allows me to literally load all of the relevant fields for the tables I am working with and turn my system into an "in memory database". Even then it can take minutes to do some of the pieces of the processes I perform. >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. I would say that my client is solidly in that 1%, but I certainly am not. The machines I have are just a requirement of the work that I do, not an indicator of wealth. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/5/2011 6:28 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single > duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about > lately LOL. > > Arthur > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > >> <> Server database client. The >> technology I could afford at the time was AMD 3800 (single core), 4 gigs >> RAM, Windows 2003 X32 and >> SQL Server 2000 X32. From there I upgraded the processor to dual core. I >> then replaced the >> motherboard and moved to a quad core, upgraded to Windows 2003 X64 and >> upgraded my memory to 8 gigs. >> Then I upgraded to 16 gigs. Last year I built an entirely new system with >> a dual socket AMD with >> only one 8 core processor (one socket populated) and 16 gigs of memory. >> Then 32 gigs of memory. >> Then populated the other socket with another 8 core chip and 32 gigs of >> memory.>> >> >> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 09:16:33 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 10:16:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I hear ya! Welcome back to the 99% LOL. Now if I could only find such a client that would necessitate some serious hardware. Arthur On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:06 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. > > LOL, I dream of winning the powerball just like the rest. > > I actually borrowed $5000 as a business loan from my mother to build the > first two servers in 2004 in order to get this client. > > In the first 16 months I grossed 10K and I was beginning to wonder if this > client was ever going to "pay off". I did everything on SQL Server > completely manually and learned as I went. SSMS was my biggest "enemy" as > I struggled to figure out how do do all this stuff. > > Understand that while I had recovered the cost of the hardware I was > spending massive time "off the clock" learning how to do sql server and > stuff. I was extremely broke at that point and when the client asked "can > you do this" I said "YES I CAN!" but hadn't a clue how I was going to do > it. I would bet I grossed about $10 an hour those first 16 months on that > client's work. > > I got the client in the first place because his business was with a > company that gave him bad service. He was "small potatoes" to this big > service company and they would take days to give him counts and pass him > from person to person within the company to service his account. > > It was the fact that I did all of that prep and gave the client immediate > service that caused him to eventually give me all of the business that had > been with this other company. In the next three years my gross from him > increased 20K a year as I gave him what he needed and he placed more and > more of his business with me. > > In addition to all that I took C# and have since designed a custom > application to automate the tasks that I have to do for him. Now I > actually bill for every hour spent and I even bill for "jobs" which take > almost no manual labor. > > Over the years my client has directly paid about 50% of the direct costs > of the servers. When I just didn't have the cash for $2K worth of raid > controllers and disks I asked him to write a check for that and he did. I > didn't have the cash for the new server so he paid the up front cost to > build the machine. I later purchased additional memory, SSDS and such. > Understand that in the end, the client pays for everything, since anything > that I buy comes after I pay my bills. > > It wasn't hard to convince the client that his needs required more than a > quad core and 16 gigs of memory. I am doing sql kind of stuff, performing > where clauses on as many as 20 fields at a time on tens of millions of > rows, and joining together tables with tens of millions of rows, in order > to get result sets of millions of rows which get exported to disk as fixed > width files and csv files. My poor quad core 16 gig machine was struggling! > > SQL Server is incredibly efficient and the more cores and the more memory > you throw at it the faster it gets. By moving to compression I decreased > the size on disk, decreased the disk I/O to get this stuff into memory and > decreased the footprint of the data in memory so more stuff is loaded at a > time, but you need processor power to do the decompression as the data is > used in memory. 16 cores, 64 gigs and compression allows me to literally > load all of the relevant fields for the tables I am working with and turn > my system into an "in memory database". Even then it can take minutes to > do some of the pieces of the processes I perform. > > > >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. > > I would say that my client is solidly in that 1%, but I certainly am not. > The machines I have are just a requirement of the work that I do, not an > indicator of wealth. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 09:16:33 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 10:16:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I hear ya! Welcome back to the 99% LOL. Now if I could only find such a client that would necessitate some serious hardware. Arthur On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:06 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. > > LOL, I dream of winning the powerball just like the rest. > > I actually borrowed $5000 as a business loan from my mother to build the > first two servers in 2004 in order to get this client. > > In the first 16 months I grossed 10K and I was beginning to wonder if this > client was ever going to "pay off". I did everything on SQL Server > completely manually and learned as I went. SSMS was my biggest "enemy" as > I struggled to figure out how do do all this stuff. > > Understand that while I had recovered the cost of the hardware I was > spending massive time "off the clock" learning how to do sql server and > stuff. I was extremely broke at that point and when the client asked "can > you do this" I said "YES I CAN!" but hadn't a clue how I was going to do > it. I would bet I grossed about $10 an hour those first 16 months on that > client's work. > > I got the client in the first place because his business was with a > company that gave him bad service. He was "small potatoes" to this big > service company and they would take days to give him counts and pass him > from person to person within the company to service his account. > > It was the fact that I did all of that prep and gave the client immediate > service that caused him to eventually give me all of the business that had > been with this other company. In the next three years my gross from him > increased 20K a year as I gave him what he needed and he placed more and > more of his business with me. > > In addition to all that I took C# and have since designed a custom > application to automate the tasks that I have to do for him. Now I > actually bill for every hour spent and I even bill for "jobs" which take > almost no manual labor. > > Over the years my client has directly paid about 50% of the direct costs > of the servers. When I just didn't have the cash for $2K worth of raid > controllers and disks I asked him to write a check for that and he did. I > didn't have the cash for the new server so he paid the up front cost to > build the machine. I later purchased additional memory, SSDS and such. > Understand that in the end, the client pays for everything, since anything > that I buy comes after I pay my bills. > > It wasn't hard to convince the client that his needs required more than a > quad core and 16 gigs of memory. I am doing sql kind of stuff, performing > where clauses on as many as 20 fields at a time on tens of millions of > rows, and joining together tables with tens of millions of rows, in order > to get result sets of millions of rows which get exported to disk as fixed > width files and csv files. My poor quad core 16 gig machine was struggling! > > SQL Server is incredibly efficient and the more cores and the more memory > you throw at it the faster it gets. By moving to compression I decreased > the size on disk, decreased the disk I/O to get this stuff into memory and > decreased the footprint of the data in memory so more stuff is loaded at a > time, but you need processor power to do the decompression as the data is > used in memory. 16 cores, 64 gigs and compression allows me to literally > load all of the relevant fields for the tables I am working with and turn > my system into an "in memory database". Even then it can take minutes to > do some of the pieces of the processes I perform. > > > >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. > > I would say that my client is solidly in that 1%, but I certainly am not. > The machines I have are just a requirement of the work that I do, not an > indicator of wealth. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > > From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 5 09:26:40 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 10:26:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance servers is very valuable. However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation running Vista. After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge waste....especially if you've got an SSD. > Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single > duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about > lately LOL. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Nov 5 09:50:54 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 07:50:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FREE! Query Optimizer eBook and SQL Prompt trial Message-ID: <8A00F47ACBF34238821DAE14333B68F3@HAL9007> FYI http://www.red-gate.com/products/sql-development/sql-prompt/entrypage/sql-qu ery-optimizer-ebook?utm_source=dbw &utm_medium=email&utm_content=queryoptimizer1-20111106&utm_campaign=sqlpromp t From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 5 09:54:28 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 10:54:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> Message-ID: <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> I just replaced my Dell m90 laptop with a $600 Toshiba with an AMD A6-3650 quad core and 6 gigs of RAM. The laptop clocks the cores at around 1.4 g but they can automatically overclock up to about 2.1 g (I think). I then run a virtual machine server with a quad core AMD clocked at 3.3 g and each VM (there are three main VMs) is given a single core and anywhere from 3 gigs to 6 gigs of ram. I have a vmDev virtual machine which has 4 gigs and both Paul and I do our development on that machine, simultaneously, using remote desktop to get at the vm. So a single 3.3 g core and 4 gigs is adequately supporting two developers. I can if I want do my dev directly on my laptop, and the 4 cores are noticeably faster but not enough to make me prefer that to working in vmDev. > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge waste....especially if you've got an SSD. Or a gaming machine. If you were developing big C# programs then more memory would help. At the price of memory today I think 8 gigs is the new norm for development. An SSD also makes an enormous difference though. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/5/2011 10:26 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance > servers is very valuable. > However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core > processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. > I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation > running Vista. > After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even > that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. > I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY > SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge > waste....especially if you've got an SSD. > >> Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single >> duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about >> lately LOL. > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 09:57:23 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 10:57:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> Message-ID: I beg to differ. When running VirtualBox or Hyper-V or any similar product on a 64-bit OS, the more RAM the better. As a semi-retired person, I'm getting by with a mere 4GB and I run Ubuntu Linux as a VirtualBox VM while running Windows 7 as the main OS, and it works well even with only 4GB of RAM. My main problem is how to install an instance of Windows XP as a VM inside VirtualBox. On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance > servers is very valuable. > However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core > processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. > I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation > running Vista. > After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even > that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. > I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY > SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a > huge > waste....especially if you've got an SSD. > > > Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single > > duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about > > lately LOL. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 5 10:18:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 01:18:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com>, <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net>, <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB553B2.10335.D675AA3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I'd go with the 8 GB too, mainly for multiple VMs to test developments under different OS and Access versions -- Stuart On 5 Nov 2011 at 10:54, jwcolby wrote: > > > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM > is a huge waste....especially > if you've got an SSD. > > Or a gaming machine. If you were developing big C# programs then more > memory would help. At the price of memory today I think 8 gigs is the > new norm for development. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 5 11:12:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 12:12:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB56077.7050100@colbyconsulting.com> Did you know that Windows 7 can use an SSD as ready boost? If you are using the SSD as the boot drive and loading everything off of that this will not help, but I have an old 30 g SSD which I put out in one of my WMC systems (tv) and assigned part of it for ready boost and it makes everything much snappier. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/5/2011 10:54 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I just replaced my Dell m90 laptop with a $600 Toshiba with an AMD A6-3650 quad core and 6 gigs of > RAM. The laptop clocks the cores at around 1.4 g but they can automatically overclock up to about > 2.1 g (I think). I then run a virtual machine server with a quad core AMD clocked at 3.3 g and each > VM (there are three main VMs) is given a single core and anywhere from 3 gigs to 6 gigs of ram. > > I have a vmDev virtual machine which has 4 gigs and both Paul and I do our development on that > machine, simultaneously, using remote desktop to get at the vm. So a single 3.3 g core and 4 gigs is > adequately supporting two developers. I can if I want do my dev directly on my laptop, and the 4 > cores are noticeably faster but not enough to make me prefer that to working in vmDev. > > > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge waste....especially > if you've got an SSD. > > Or a gaming machine. If you were developing big C# programs then more memory would help. At the > price of memory today I think 8 gigs is the new norm for development. > > An SSD also makes an enormous difference though. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/5/2011 10:26 AM, Mark Simms wrote: >> There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance >> servers is very valuable. >> However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core >> processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. >> I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation >> running Vista. >> After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even >> that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. >> I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY >> SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. >> Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge >> waste....especially if you've got an SSD. >> >>> Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single >>> duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about >>> lately LOL. >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 5 11:14:46 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 12:14:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> Message-ID: <4EB560F6.2080902@colbyconsulting.com> No one can know another's budget but (in the US anyway) 8 gigs of ram can be had for $40 on sale, $50 as a normal price. That is a pretty darned cheap upgrade. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/5/2011 10:57 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I beg to differ. When running VirtualBox or Hyper-V or any similar product > on a 64-bit OS, the more RAM the better. As a semi-retired person, I'm > getting by with a mere 4GB and I run Ubuntu Linux as a VirtualBox VM while > running Windows 7 as the main OS, and it works well even with only 4GB of > RAM. > > My main problem is how to install an instance of Windows XP as a VM inside > VirtualBox. > > On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance >> servers is very valuable. >> However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core >> processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. >> I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation >> running Vista. >> After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even >> that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. >> I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY >> SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. >> Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a >> huge >> waste....especially if you've got an SSD. >> >>> Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single >>> duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about >>> lately LOL. >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From bheid at sc.rr.com Sat Nov 5 11:57:02 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 12:57:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FREE! Query Optimizer eBook and SQL Prompt trial In-Reply-To: <8A00F47ACBF34238821DAE14333B68F3@HAL9007> References: <8A00F47ACBF34238821DAE14333B68F3@HAL9007> Message-ID: <001201cc9bdb$f0e62720$d2b27560$@sc.rr.com> We use SQL prompt at work (along with several other RedGate tools. I like it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2011 10:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] FREE! Query Optimizer eBook and SQL Prompt trial FYI http://www.red-gate.com/products/sql-development/sql-prompt/entrypage/sql-qu ery-optimizer-ebook?utm_source=dbw &utm_medium=email&utm_content=queryoptimizer1-20111106&utm_campaign=sqlpromp t -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 5 16:29:05 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 17:29:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <004501cc9c01$f277f570$d767e050$@net> Sorry, I should have QUALIFIED this....REAL MACHINE ONLY... Virtual Machine set-up ? Definitely needs much more than 4 gigs...probably 4GB PER VM ! And John got exactly my point: SSD means less DRAM needed. > I just replaced my Dell m90 laptop with a $600 Toshiba with an AMD A6- > 3650 quad core and 6 gigs of > RAM. The laptop clocks the cores at around 1.4 g but they can > automatically overclock up to about > 2.1 g (I think). I then run a virtual machine server with a quad core > AMD clocked at 3.3 g and each > VM (there are three main VMs) is given a single core and anywhere from > 3 gigs to 6 gigs of ram. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 13:55:24 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 14:55:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Q&Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think that I'm going back to Ludy's Piano Sonatas this afternoon. Sure beats TV! Three major hits. Well actually I got sidetracked momentarily by Opera. I'm at this moment listening to Luciano Pavarotti and I understand that young girls your age don't get it, and that's ok, I get it, and it's lonely out here but I can deal with it. Despite popular tastes, opera and string quartets live! Beyond their 200-year time-spans. Yes I love various groups such as Stones and Talking Heads and Clash, but taking the Long Picture, how many of their tunes are going to be played in 100 years? That's the basic definition of classic music, like it or not. One cannot predict the future, one can only guess. That admitted, here are some of my guesses, of music that will be played in 2013. 1. M2O: Miss America. That record will live on and on and on and on. 2. The Beatles: The White Album. That's the best record they ever did. 3. Miles Davis: Kind of Blue. With his transcription of "Concierto de Aranjuez" he got all the love and sorrow all perfectly right. 4. Uakti: Mapa and several subsequent CDs. This trio from Brazil is probably my favourite world-music group. 5, Swapan Chauduri, IMO the best tabla player that I have ever heard. In the company of G.S. Sachdev, this is music to die for. On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Audra Gonsalves wrote: > Hey you - this dumb ass laptop that I am using keeps going down- guess > it's because his horney nephew used it all night - so going to give it a > break to cool down and then come back to your emails! > > miss and love you - so so miss you me > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 11:42:39 -0400 > Subject: Q&Q > From: fuller.artful at gmail.com > To: audragonsalves at hotmail.com > > > Almost time for Quirks and Quarks. I'm assuming that you at least have the > freedom to listen to cbc. Starts at 12pm and after that comes The Debaters! > So if possible, get near a radio and tune in to 99.1 FM. Bob McDonald has > some cool stuff this week, and the Debaters ditto. > > Used to be an expression, "I'm glued to the tube." In my case, and I'm not > alone in this, I'm glued to the radio. Weekends are the worst part of cbc > radio (I hate blues music and I'm way too tired of Randy Bachman's rock > music choices). Truth be told, I could live what remains of my life without > ever hearing another blues or R&R tune. At this point, I'm solely > interested in music that lasts, and that includes East Indian classical > music (remember when we went to see and speak with G.S. Sachdev and Swapan > Chaudhuri. and previous to that, Zakir Hussain?) > > Lately I'm on a re-acquaintance with the music of Ludwig van Beethoven. > It's so wonderful to hear him again. I have ignored him for decades, but > lately acquired and copied about a dozen CDs containing his magnificent > works. > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 6 16:24:44 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 22:24:44 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Q&Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D0FE6@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yes, I often wonder about that too. Which of today's tracks are going to be listened to, studied and reproduced in 200 years? Of course a lot of it used to come down to luck, what survived the years of fire, wars, fashion and chaos. Perhaps with digital storage that may less of a problem, or more likely (I fear), a real problem (what if the power went off tomorrow, how much IP and data would we instantly & permanently lose?). Anyway I digress. The other thing about some of the classical composers that amazes me was just how prodigious and consistent their output was. Sure the Beatles and stones had a few good albums, but look at Mozart's back catalogue just a one example... The hits keeps coming so to speak. Anyway, an interesting idea to think about. Am am pretty confident that hardly anything in the top 10 pop charts or any given week will be there in 5 years, let alone 200.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2011 5:55 AM To: Audra Gonsalves Subject: Re: [AccessD] Q&Q I think that I'm going back to Ludy's Piano Sonatas this afternoon. Sure beats TV! Three major hits. Well actually I got sidetracked momentarily by Opera. I'm at this moment listening to Luciano Pavarotti and I understand that young girls your age don't get it, and that's ok, I get it, and it's lonely out here but I can deal with it. Despite popular tastes, opera and string quartets live! Beyond their 200-year time-spans. Yes I love various groups such as Stones and Talking Heads and Clash, but taking the Long Picture, how many of their tunes are going to be played in 100 years? That's the basic definition of classic music, like it or not. One cannot predict the future, one can only guess. That admitted, here are some of my guesses, of music that will be played in 2013. 1. M2O: Miss America. That record will live on and on and on and on. 2. The Beatles: The White Album. That's the best record they ever did. 3. Miles Davis: Kind of Blue. With his transcription of "Concierto de Aranjuez" he got all the love and sorrow all perfectly right. 4. Uakti: Mapa and several subsequent CDs. This trio from Brazil is probably my favourite world-music group. 5, Swapan Chauduri, IMO the best tabla player that I have ever heard. In the company of G.S. Sachdev, this is music to die for. On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Audra Gonsalves wrote: > Hey you - this dumb ass laptop that I am using keeps going down- > guess it's because his horney nephew used it all night - so going to > give it a break to cool down and then come back to your emails! > > miss and love you - so so miss you me > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 11:42:39 -0400 > Subject: Q&Q > From: fuller.artful at gmail.com > To: audragonsalves at hotmail.com > > > Almost time for Quirks and Quarks. I'm assuming that you at least have > the freedom to listen to cbc. Starts at 12pm and after that comes The Debaters! > So if possible, get near a radio and tune in to 99.1 FM. Bob McDonald > has some cool stuff this week, and the Debaters ditto. > > Used to be an expression, "I'm glued to the tube." In my case, and I'm > not alone in this, I'm glued to the radio. Weekends are the worst part > of cbc radio (I hate blues music and I'm way too tired of Randy > Bachman's rock music choices). Truth be told, I could live what > remains of my life without ever hearing another blues or R&R tune. At > this point, I'm solely interested in music that lasts, and that > includes East Indian classical music (remember when we went to see and > speak with G.S. Sachdev and Swapan Chaudhuri. and previous to that, > Zakir Hussain?) > > Lately I'm on a re-acquaintance with the music of Ludwig van Beethoven. > It's so wonderful to hear him again. I have ignored him for decades, > but lately acquired and copied about a dozen CDs containing his > magnificent works. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pedro at plex.nl Mon Nov 7 14:47:52 2011 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 14:47:52 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: <201111071347.pA7DlqaZ029887@mailhostC.plex.net> Thanks David, i will try both solutions on the large dataset. I have missed the previous mailings on my topic, because of a holiday i set a stop on the mailings for accessd, and noticed it when i did not received any mailings. Where there any important mailings on this topic other then the ones below? Also the archives can't be consulted. Pedro Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 00:58:48 +0100 From: "Asger Blond" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: <4480900DEA8F48FCB0796163F3E9C492 at abpc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Excellent David! As to performance, testing the two queries in SQL Server shows the same execution plan (which doesn't necessarily mean that the plan and cost would be the same with a different and bigger dataset - but I would guess not). Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee Sendt: 3. november 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] unique patients Wow, my eyes or mind must have filtered that second line out when typing the records in. SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient PKID Uitv Sub Patient ----------- ---- ---- ----------- 1 A ee 101 8 A ee 101 2 A ee 102 3 A ff 201 4 A gg 301 5 B ee 201 6 B ee 301 7 B hh 501 (8 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient Uitv Sub Patient ---- ---- ----------- A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 (7 row(s) affected) --Either of these work the same, not sure which is faster/better: SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT DISTINCT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > WIth the original dataset, not the cleansed one? > > -- > Stuart > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 7 07:58:43 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 14:58:43 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: Hi Pedro My suggestion was: First use a query with DISTINCT to remove the double entries like A-ee-101. Then use this query as source in another query whery you group by Uitv and Sub and count Patient. /gustav >>> pedro at plex.nl 07-11-2011 14:47 >>> Thanks David, i will try both solutions on the large dataset. I have missed the previous mailings on my topic, because of a holiday i set a stop on the mailings for accessd, and noticed it when i did not received any mailings. Where there any important mailings on this topic other then the ones below? Also the archives can't be consulted. Pedro From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon Nov 7 08:12:05 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 09:12:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Q&Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well I remember when I was just a kid my English teacher telling the class that there was just no way those Beatles chappies were ever going to last. 40 years later they are still highly popular, and not just with baby boomers. So who knows what we will be writing term papers about in another forty years. Lambert :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2011 2:55 PM To: Audra Gonsalves Subject: Re: [AccessD] Q&Q I think that I'm going back to Ludy's Piano Sonatas this afternoon. Sure beats TV! Three major hits. Well actually I got sidetracked momentarily by Opera. I'm at this moment listening to Luciano Pavarotti and I understand that young girls your age don't get it, and that's ok, I get it, and it's lonely out here but I can deal with it. Despite popular tastes, opera and string quartets live! Beyond their 200-year time-spans. Yes I love various groups such as Stones and Talking Heads and Clash, but taking the Long Picture, how many of their tunes are going to be played in 100 years? That's the basic definition of classic music, like it or not. One cannot predict the future, one can only guess. That admitted, here are some of my guesses, of music that will be played in 2013. 1. M2O: Miss America. That record will live on and on and on and on. 2. The Beatles: The White Album. That's the best record they ever did. 3. Miles Davis: Kind of Blue. With his transcription of "Concierto de Aranjuez" he got all the love and sorrow all perfectly right. 4. Uakti: Mapa and several subsequent CDs. This trio from Brazil is probably my favourite world-music group. 5, Swapan Chauduri, IMO the best tabla player that I have ever heard. In the company of G.S. Sachdev, this is music to die for. On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Audra Gonsalves wrote: > Hey you - this dumb ass laptop that I am using keeps going down- > guess it's because his horney nephew used it all night - so going to > give it a break to cool down and then come back to your emails! > > miss and love you - so so miss you me > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 11:42:39 -0400 > Subject: Q&Q > From: fuller.artful at gmail.com > To: audragonsalves at hotmail.com > > > Almost time for Quirks and Quarks. I'm assuming that you at least have > the freedom to listen to cbc. Starts at 12pm and after that comes The Debaters! > So if possible, get near a radio and tune in to 99.1 FM. Bob McDonald > has some cool stuff this week, and the Debaters ditto. > > Used to be an expression, "I'm glued to the tube." In my case, and I'm > not alone in this, I'm glued to the radio. Weekends are the worst part > of cbc radio (I hate blues music and I'm way too tired of Randy > Bachman's rock music choices). Truth be told, I could live what > remains of my life without ever hearing another blues or R&R tune. At > this point, I'm solely interested in music that lasts, and that > includes East Indian classical music (remember when we went to see and > speak with G.S. Sachdev and Swapan Chaudhuri. and previous to that, > Zakir Hussain?) > > Lately I'm on a re-acquaintance with the music of Ludwig van Beethoven. > It's so wonderful to hear him again. I have ignored him for decades, > but lately acquired and copied about a dozen CDs containing his > magnificent works. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 11:10:43 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 09:10:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Q&Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My kids would whine when I would play the Beatles in my car. Then the Beatles Rock Band game came out and they were tolerant of the music. We took them to go see the Beatles Love Show in Vegas in January and they loved it. They were asking to hear them on the drive home. ;) On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Heenan, Lambert < Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com> wrote: > Well I remember when I was just a kid my English teacher telling the class > that there was just no way those Beatles chappies were ever going to last. > 40 years later they are still highly popular, and not just with baby > boomers. So who knows what we will be writing term papers about in another > forty years. > > Lambert :-) > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 12:38:52 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 10:38:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg Message-ID: Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Mon Nov 7 12:45:40 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 07:45:40 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Rocky, What I used to use was the Prt Scr key into Paint, and crop what I wanted before copying and pasting into Word. Now with Windows 7 I use the snipping tool. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: >Dear List: > >When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports >into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word >doc manual. > >But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > >Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a >jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into >the reports section of my manual. > >Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > >MTIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >858-259-4334 >www.bchacc.com >www.e-z-mrp.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 12:46:43 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 10:46:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alt + Print Screen? On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports > into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word > doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a > jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them > into > the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 12:50:43 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 12:50:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you do print preview of the report and then capture the preview with the PRINT SCREEN key or ALT + PRINT SCREEN for just the active window you could then paste the screens into PAINT and then crop the image the way you want before saving as JPG. If you set your screen for a higher resolution you will get a better end result. GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports > into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word > doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a > jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into > the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 13:05:08 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:05:08 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: When I tried that before, the resolution wasn't high enough - limited by the screen res since it was essentially a screen capture. But that was under WXP. Different with W7? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of newsgrps Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Rocky, What I used to use was the Prt Scr key into Paint, and crop what I wanted before copying and pasting into Word. Now with Windows 7 I use the snipping tool. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: >Dear List: > >When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the >reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on >to the word doc manual. > >But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > >Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably >as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste >them into the reports section of my manual. > >Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > >MTIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >858-259-4334 >www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Mon Nov 7 13:09:41 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 08:09:41 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111107190943.BHXV28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Gary's solution may work - "If you set your screen for a higher resolution you will get a better end result." At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: >When I tried that before, the resolution wasn't high enough - limited by the >screen res since it was essentially a screen capture. But that was under >WXP. Different with W7? > >R > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of newsgrps >Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:46 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; 'Access Developers >discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg > >Rocky, > >What I used to use was the Prt Scr key into Paint, and crop what I wanted >before copying and pasting into Word. > >Now with Windows 7 I use the snipping tool. > >Regards > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >New Zealand > >At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >Dear List: > > > >When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > >reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on > >to the word doc manual. > > > >But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > > >Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > >as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste > >them into the reports section of my manual. > > > >Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > > >MTIA > > > >Rocky Smolin > >Beach Access Software > >858-259-4334 > >www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Nov 7 13:09:21 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:09:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out what is really going on. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 13:13:04 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:13:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35B7DC7082C4477AA1D08EA32AD45654@HAL9007> My screen set to 1920 x 1080 and the image is almost crisp enough but not quite. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg If you do print preview of the report and then capture the preview with the PRINT SCREEN key or ALT + PRINT SCREEN for just the active window you could then paste the screens into PAINT and then crop the image the way you want before saving as JPG. If you set your screen for a higher resolution you will get a better end result. GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 13:15:33 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:15:33 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: I use PrtScr (free) from http://www.fiastarta.com/PrtScr/ It allows you to select any area of the screen to copy, and you can set the default location, type, and quality of the file. Doug On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you > want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture > the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out > what is really going on. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports > into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word > doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a > jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them > into > the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 13:15:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:15:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: I remember now - I used Snagit before but it's on an old XP comp. Bit awkward at this point, but it'll get me there in a pinch. I was hoping maybe in the intervening 5 years something cheap and effective had been developed. I've got a good pdf printer but can't see a way to get it into my word doc. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out what is really going on. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 7 13:23:16 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:23:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: 72 dpi is sort of the maximum with screen capturing, at least traditionally. I am not sure of a way around that or software that can or will capture a higher resolution unless it is reading straight off the video card not the monitor. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg When I tried that before, the resolution wasn't high enough - limited by the screen res since it was essentially a screen capture. But that was under WXP. Different with W7? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of newsgrps Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Rocky, What I used to use was the Prt Scr key into Paint, and crop what I wanted before copying and pasting into Word. Now with Windows 7 I use the snipping tool. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: >Dear List: > >When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the >reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on >to the word doc manual. > >But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > >Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably >as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste >them into the reports section of my manual. > >Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > >MTIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >858-259-4334 >www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 13:33:30 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:33:30 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: here's a thread from December 2008 where you asked the same question. Unfortunately it refers to a message in the archives..... ------------------------------------------------------------ David: That was it. Thanks. I have it on my rig and tried it but couldn't seem to get it to work right. Got it all straightened out now. Getting old sucks. :) Best, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Beckles Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:50 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reports To File - Hide quoted text - Dear Rocky, I think that you are looking for Print to Picture. Take a look at: http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2006-November/047420.html David ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I remember now - I used Snagit before but it's on an old XP comp. ?Bit > awkward at this point, but it'll get me there in a pinch. ?I was hoping > maybe in the intervening 5 years something cheap and effective had been > developed. ?I've got a good pdf printer but can't see a way to get it into > my word doc. > > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:09 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you > want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture > the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out > what is really going on. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports > into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word > doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a > jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into > the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 13:39:02 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:39:02 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: There are virtual printer drivers that print to JPG.... http://code-industry.net/imageprinter.php GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > here's a thread from December 2008 where you asked the same question. > Unfortunately it refers to a message in the archives..... > ------------------------------------------------------------ > David: > > That was it. ?Thanks. ?I have it on my rig and tried it but couldn't seem to > get it to work right. Got it all straightened out now. ?Getting old sucks. > :) > > Best, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.e-z-mrp.com > www.bchacc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Beckles > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:50 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reports To File > > - Hide quoted text - > Dear Rocky, > I think that you are looking for Print to Picture. Take a look at: > http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2006-November/047420.html > > David > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> I remember now - I used Snagit before but it's on an old XP comp. ?Bit >> awkward at this point, but it'll get me there in a pinch. ?I was hoping >> maybe in the intervening 5 years something cheap and effective had been >> developed. ?I've got a good pdf printer but can't see a way to get it into >> my word doc. >> >> R >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:09 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you >> want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture >> the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out >> what is really going on. >> >> Doug >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> Dear List: >> >> When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports >> into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word >> doc manual. >> >> But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. >> >> Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a >> jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into >> the reports section of my manual. >> >> Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? >> >> MTIA >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> 858-259-4334 >> www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 13:47:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:47:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: Per Gary's suggestion, I captured a screen put it into paint and save it as jpg. Pasted it into a word doc but it was fuzzy. Do you think this product will be better? I'm thinking it can't do better than the screen res. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg I use PrtScr (free) from http://www.fiastarta.com/PrtScr/ It allows you to select any area of the screen to copy, and you can set the default location, type, and quality of the file. Doug On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if > you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will > also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into > Google to find out what is really going on. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 14:02:55 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 12:02:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: <879A49D0D6424ACC8A22883F7FAB99AC@HAL9007> Oh, bummer - so close - "this version doesn't support 64 bit systems". :( Image Pro will do it however for $30. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg There are virtual printer drivers that print to JPG.... http://code-industry.net/imageprinter.php GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > here's a thread from December 2008 where you asked the same question. > Unfortunately it refers to a message in the archives..... > ------------------------------------------------------------ > David: > > That was it. ?Thanks. ?I have it on my rig and tried it but couldn't > seem to get it to work right. Got it all straightened out now. ?Getting old sucks. > :) > > Best, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.e-z-mrp.com > www.bchacc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David > Beckles > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:50 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reports To File > > - Hide quoted text - > Dear Rocky, > I think that you are looking for Print to Picture. Take a look at: > http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2006-November/047420.htm > l > > David > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------ > >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> I remember now - I used Snagit before but it's on an old XP comp. ? >> Bit awkward at this point, but it'll get me there in a pinch. ?I was >> hoping maybe in the intervening 5 years something cheap and effective >> had been developed. ?I've got a good pdf printer but can't see a way >> to get it into my word doc. >> >> R >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug >> Murphy >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:09 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if >> you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will >> also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into >> Google to find out what is really going on. >> >> Doug >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> Dear List: >> >> When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the >> reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them >> on to the word doc manual. >> >> But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. >> >> Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably >> as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can >> paste them into the reports section of my manual. >> >> Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? >> >> MTIA >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> 858-259-4334 >> www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 14:10:57 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:10:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: I just did it using IFRANVIEW instead of paint and the results looked pretty good. You have to have the report maximized on your screen when you do the grab though. The more pixels the better. I've got a pretty big monitor here so that helps I suppose. GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Per Gary's suggestion, I captured a screen put it into paint and save it as > jpg. ?Pasted it into a word doc but it was fuzzy. ?Do you think this product > will be better? ?I'm thinking it can't do better than the screen res. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:16 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > I use PrtScr (free) from > > http://www.fiastarta.com/PrtScr/ > > It allows you to select any area of the screen to copy, and you can set the > default location, type, and quality of the file. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > >> I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if >> you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will >> also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into >> Google to find out what is really going on. >> >> Doug >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> Dear List: >> >> When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the >> reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them >> on to the word doc manual. >> >> But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. >> >> Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably >> as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can >> paste them into the reports section of my manual. >> >> Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? >> >> MTIA >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> 858-259-4334 >> www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 7 15:22:28 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 07:22:28 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 7 15:42:38 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 22:42:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg Message-ID: Hi Rocky et al You are a little off-track here. First, JPG is for photos, not graphic arts with fonts. Second, don't write the reports to the screen, write to an image printer like: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer which will print not near-perfect but perfect images in, say, TIFF format or another bitmap format. Use a resolution that will allow you to scale the image of the report to match the resolution of the pages of your manual. We did that back in 1994 using a fax printer that saved the reports to bitmap files suitable for sending by fax. /gustav >>> rockysmolin at bchacc.com 07-11-2011 19:38 >>> Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 16:18:40 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:18:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 16:24:47 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:24:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1D68B1DDDDBC43AE832432EBE35AF6A9@HAL9007> The jpg format worked well 5 years ago when I did the manual. So I didn't really look any farther. Is that the same as Microsoft XPS Document Writer? Trying it now - creates a file in .xps format. But then how to get it into Word? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Hi Rocky et al You are a little off-track here. First, JPG is for photos, not graphic arts with fonts. Second, don't write the reports to the screen, write to an image printer like: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer which will print not near-perfect but perfect images in, say, TIFF format or another bitmap format. Use a resolution that will allow you to scale the image of the report to match the resolution of the pages of your manual. We did that back in 1994 using a fax printer that saved the reports to bitmap files suitable for sending by fax. /gustav >>> rockysmolin at bchacc.com 07-11-2011 19:38 >>> Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 7 16:29:46 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:29:46 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D430E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Don't use paint would be my first suggestion. I have never found it satisfactory with quality. Oddly I usually use XL first as my picture editing tool. Why Excel? 1: You already have XL 2: XL has gobs of room to move stuff around 3: Excel has tabs you can build put many photos in one workbook, or many objects etc. 4: You can visually show in the print margins in the worksheet and then resize or crop the picture to fit the print size - handy. 5: You can add text, arrows, circle and other objects if you want and then save them as a single picture. To convert to a screen grab to a jpg you can just copy and paste as picture. If you have added other objects as well as your screenshot then press F5 (Goto), choose the "Special..." button, select objects. Then copy all the objects and paste as picture. Nice :) I also recommend irfanview (free) as a decent picture editor Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 6:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Per Gary's suggestion, I captured a screen put it into paint and save it as jpg. Pasted it into a word doc but it was fuzzy. Do you think this product will be better? I'm thinking it can't do better than the screen res. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg I use PrtScr (free) from http://www.fiastarta.com/PrtScr/ It allows you to select any area of the screen to copy, and you can set the default location, type, and quality of the file. Doug On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if > you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will > also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into > Google to find out what is really going on. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Nov 7 17:07:48 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 15:07:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> Not sure what the problem is but I have the free version of inrfranview running on a 64 bit machine. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 7 17:28:29 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 23:28:29 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5399@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Ditto, I have it running on two different W7 64 Bit machines without issue. That was just the standard free download too from memory. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Not sure what the problem is but I have the free version of inrfranview running on a 64 bit machine. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Nov 7 17:30:38 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 15:30:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for something that should be simple. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Mon Nov 7 17:49:11 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:49:11 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> Message-ID: <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> I couldn't agree more, Doug. Snagit is fantastic. I just did a rough tally up, and I reckon I have used Snagit already about 10 times today. Converted some PDFs to JPGs and put them into a document. Converted some EPSs to PNGs, made transparent backgrounds and tweaked some colours. Re-jigged and re-sized some logos. Captured and annotated some screen shots to assist with some customer support. I don't know how I'd live without it. :) Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for something that should be simple. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 7 17:51:11 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 09:51:11 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> References: , , <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> Message-ID: <4EB86EEF.22769.1989D0CC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Irfanview does the same sort of thing and is free for personal use. I use it all the time. On 7 Nov 2011 at 15:30, Doug Murphy wrote: > If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money > ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full > screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, > highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you > want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a > little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to > do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, > edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for > something that should be simple. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit > version is $30. > > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] > Report To jpg > > IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. > > Otherwise: > Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from > http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ > > -- > Stuart > > On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > > on to the word doc manual. > > > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, > > probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that > > I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Mon Nov 7 17:56:37 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:56:37 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <92A32D8A28D748A59BEA9DB7EE6D53A8@stevelaptop> Sorry, in my enthusiasm I forget the main point I wanted to make here. :) Back to Rocky's original question, with Snagit you don't open the report preview, and then capture a screen shot. Well, you could, and that would give good results. But Snagit also acts as a printer driver, so best and easiest is to just print the report directly to Snagit, and then you can do what you want with it and save it to whatever image format you want. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Steve Schapel Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg I couldn't agree more, Doug. Snagit is fantastic. I just did a rough tally up, and I reckon I have used Snagit already about 10 times today. Converted some PDFs to JPGs and put them into a document. Converted some EPSs to PNGs, made transparent backgrounds and tweaked some colours. Re-jigged and re-sized some logos. Captured and annotated some screen shots to assist with some customer support. I don't know how I'd live without it. :) Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for something that should be simple. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Nov 7 18:08:31 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 03:08:31 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Message-ID: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> Hi All -- Somehow I can't get the subj working properly. How do you make MS Excel workbook recalculation/charts redrawn implemented there using VBA Automation without SendKeys - could you please post a VBA code snippet? I would like to 1) set MS Excel option of Automatic formulas recalculation off on MS Excel start-up, then; 2) open existing workbook with formulas and charts; 3) get backend db data retrieved into one or more worksheets, which cells are referred in formulas and charts; 4) run recalculation of whole workbook; 5) save workbook 6) set Automatic recalculation option back to its default 'Auto' value... I d not know how to make (1),(6) and(4) working via Automation. Please advise. Thank you. -- Shamil From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 7 18:22:24 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 00:22:24 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... In-Reply-To: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5421@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hi Samil In Excel VBA you need to use the following. You might need to set the excel application first in Access VBA, depending on how you are calling Excel. If you are using an Excel Template, you can just put then xlCalcManual code in the workbook open event instead. 1: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual 4: Application.Calculate or Application.CalculateFull 6: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationAutomatic Now you can either call them from Access VBA or for Excel VBA, depending on how you are controlling XL. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 11:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi All -- Somehow I can't get the subj working properly. How do you make MS Excel workbook recalculation/charts redrawn implemented there using VBA Automation without SendKeys - could you please post a VBA code snippet? I would like to 1) set MS Excel option of Automatic formulas recalculation off on MS Excel start-up, then; 2) open existing workbook with formulas and charts; 3) get backend db data retrieved into one or more worksheets, which cells are referred in formulas and charts; 4) run recalculation of whole workbook; 5) save workbook 6) set Automatic recalculation option back to its default 'Auto' value... I d not know how to make (1),(6) and(4) working via Automation. Please advise. Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 18:26:45 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 16:26:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> Message-ID: <3401A7D5921C44E99DDD3DEDA1C85B51@HAL9007> Oh I was referring to the Image Writer. I've got Irfan - terrific program. But won't work because of screen res - even at 1920 it's a little too fuzzy. I've resurrected Snag It from an old machine and am struggling through generating the reports. Thanks to all Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 3:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Not sure what the problem is but I have the free version of inrfranview running on a 64 bit machine. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 18:28:25 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 16:28:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <0C6AA3743B114C2C9B9B916DD1CD63FD@HAL9007> Agree. Using an old copy now. Save to jpegs. In Word Insert-->Picture-->From File, in it comes. Rotate, resize and Walla. R -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for something that should be simple. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Nov 8 06:16:09 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:16:09 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5421@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5421@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <52B52AC0C97E4A8DA128712A581A312F@nant> Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. MS Excel has also a "sub-option" for 'Manual' recalculation mode: "Recalculate Workbook before saving". I would like it to be switched off by VBA code - and I can't find how. Also even with 'Manual' recalculation mode set manually, and "Recalculate Workbook before saving" set manually to false, when workbook is closed and reopened it gets all its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn - and I wanted to suppress that "automatism" completely. Do know how to do that? Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I could be out of this forum for a couple of days... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: 8 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:22 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi Samil In Excel VBA you need to use the following. You might need to set the excel application first in Access VBA, depending on how you are calling Excel. If you are using an Excel Template, you can just put then xlCalcManual code in the workbook open event instead. 1: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual 4: Application.Calculate or Application.CalculateFull 6: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationAutomatic Now you can either call them from Access VBA or for Excel VBA, depending on how you are controlling XL. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 11:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi All -- Somehow I can't get the subj working properly. How do you make MS Excel workbook recalculation/charts redrawn implemented there using VBA Automation without SendKeys - could you please post a VBA code snippet? I would like to 1) set MS Excel option of Automatic formulas recalculation off on MS Excel start-up, then; 2) open existing workbook with formulas and charts; 3) get backend db data retrieved into one or more worksheets, which cells are referred in formulas and charts; 4) run recalculation of whole workbook; 5) save workbook 6) set Automatic recalculation option back to its default 'Auto' value... I d not know how to make (1),(6) and(4) working via Automation. Please advise. Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 13:04:37 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:04:37 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project Message-ID: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows application project that can be distributed that has a single table of address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely users will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 tables). Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this job?) Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 13:14:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 14:14:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 2:04 PM, newsgrps wrote: > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows application project that > can be distributed that has a single table of address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 > tables). > > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am unsure about the database > part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both of these seem overkill in this > situation - likely users will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 tables). > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution what would be a suitable > solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool > for this job?) > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 13:24:26 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 11:24:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for testing/learning. As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of your computer if you have an older/slower computer. You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no support for forms). You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for you. As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb if you prefer. You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access as the FE. A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). HTH, David On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely users > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 > tables). > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this job?) > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 13:31:24 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:31:24 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <20111108193128.ITIA15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks John, Would 50 fields (mixture of text and numbers) and 200 records be considered small? Not having dealt with XML before, would the idea be to load the table at the beginning of a session and then save it at the end (or at regular intervals)? David At 9/11/2011, jwcolby wrote: >For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > >John W. Colby >Colby Consulting > >Reality is what refuses to go away >when you do not believe in it > >On 11/8/2011 2:04 PM, newsgrps wrote: >>This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >> >>I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple >>windows application project that >>can be distributed that has a single table of address information >>(perhaps being expanded to up to 5 >>tables). >> >>My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok >>but I am unsure about the database >>part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both >>of these seem overkill in this >>situation - likely users will not have either of these installed >>and it seems crazy to include >>runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up >>to 5 tables). >> >>Assuming that a similar application was created for actual >>distribution what would be a suitable >>solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot >>net application not the right tool >>for this job?) >> >> >>Regards >> >>David Emerson >>Dalyn Software Ltd >>Wellington, New Zealand From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 13:36:10 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:36:10 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks David, I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was thinking more of the end users and what they would need. Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed will installing Jet cause problems? David At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for >testing/learning. > >As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only >allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and >dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of >your computer if you have an older/slower computer. > >You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no >support for forms). > >You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to >check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for >you. > > >As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb if >you prefer. >You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access >as the FE. >A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although >you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). > >HTH, >David > > > >On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > > > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows > > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of > > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > > > > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am > > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server > > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely users > > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 > > tables). > > > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > this job?) > > > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 14:05:38 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:05:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: According to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Jet_Database_Engine Jet has been included in every version of Windows from Windows 2000 to Windows 7, and therefore is no longer distributed separately with the Microsoft Data Access Components(MDAC). On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks David, > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed > will installing Jet cause problems? > > David > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for >> testing/learning. >> >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. >> >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no >> support for forms). >> >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for >> you. >> >> >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb >> if >> you prefer. >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access >> as the FE. >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). >> >> HTH, >> David >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: >> >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >> > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple >> windows >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). >> > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I >> am >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL >> Server >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely >> users >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 >> > tables). >> > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this >> job?) >> > >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > David Emerson >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 14:54:55 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:54:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: My last employer used Access or SQL Server backends for their commercial .Net product. Access was included for those clients who weren't ready to go full-blown SQL Server. There was no reason for Access to be installed on the machines at all because the Jet engine was already there and that's all that was required. Charlotte Foust On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks David, > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed > will installing Jet cause problems? > > David > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for >> testing/learning. >> >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. >> >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no >> support for forms). >> >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for >> you. >> >> >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb >> if >> you prefer. >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access >> as the FE. >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). >> >> HTH, >> David >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: >> >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >> > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple >> windows >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). >> > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I >> am >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL >> Server >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely >> users >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 >> > tables). >> > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this >> job?) >> > >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > David Emerson >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 15:10:32 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 10:10:32 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111108211043.PNVI15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks. Looks like I have no excuse not to jump into the world of dot net :-) At 9/11/2011, Charlotte Foust wrote: >My last employer used Access or SQL Server backends for their commercial >.Net product. Access was included for those clients who weren't ready to >go full-blown SQL Server. There was no reason for Access to be installed >on the machines at all because the Jet engine was already there and that's >all that was required. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > > Thanks David, > > > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was > > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed > > will installing Jet cause problems? > > > > David > > > > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for > >> testing/learning. > >> > >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only > >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and > >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of > >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. > >> > >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no > >> support for forms). > >> > >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to > >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for > >> you. > >> > >> > >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb > >> if > >> you prefer. > >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access > >> as the FE. > >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although > >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). > >> > >> HTH, > >> David > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: > >> > >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > >> > > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple > >> windows > >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of > >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > >> > > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I > >> am > >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL > >> Server > >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely > >> users > >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 > >> > tables). > >> > > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this > >> job?) > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > > >> > David Emerson > >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> > Wellington, New Zealand From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 15:15:16 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 07:15:16 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Arghh! I just about lost my breakfast there. :) -- Stuart On 8 Nov 2011 at 14:14, jwcolby wrote: > For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 15:17:14 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 07:17:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108211043.PNVI15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, , <20111108211043.PNVI15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB99C5A.4470.1E233D9A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Other than the fact that it's a bloated PITA and there are much better development environments out there? :-) -- Stuart On 9 Nov 2011 at 10:10, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks. Looks like I have no excuse not to jump into the world of dot net :-) > > At 9/11/2011, Charlotte Foust wrote: > >My last employer used Access or SQL Server backends for their commercial > >.Net product. Access was included for those clients who weren't ready to > >go full-blown SQL Server. There was no reason for Access to be installed > >on the machines at all because the Jet engine was already there and that's > >all that was required. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > > > > Thanks David, > > > > > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was > > > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > > > > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > > > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed > > > will installing Jet cause problems? > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > > > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for > > >> testing/learning. > > >> > > >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only > > >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and > > >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of > > >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. > > >> > > >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no > > >> support for forms). > > >> > > >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to > > >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for > > >> you. > > >> > > >> > > >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb > > >> if > > >> you prefer. > > >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access > > >> as the FE. > > >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although > > >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). > > >> > > >> HTH, > > >> David > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > >> > > >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > >> > > > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple > > >> windows > > >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of > > >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > > >> > > > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I > > >> am > > >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL > > >> Server > > >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely > > >> users > > >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > > >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 > > >> > tables). > > >> > > > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this > > >> job?) > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Regards > > >> > > > >> > David Emerson > > >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > > >> > Wellington, New Zealand > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From kismert at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 15:23:33 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:23:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project Message-ID: > > newsgrps: > ... > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this job?) > > David, Consider SQLite: http://www.sqlite.org/ They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers -Ken From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 15:32:17 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 10:32:17 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> And the reasons for the near hasty exit of your early morning culinary delights? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 9/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >Arghh! > >I just about lost my breakfast there. :) > >-- >Stuart >On 8 Nov 2011 at 14:14, jwcolby wrote: > > > For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 15:36:15 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:36:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB99C5A.4470.1E233D9A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111108211043.PNVI15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB99C5A.4470.1E233D9A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: But tell us how you really feel, Stuart! ;-> Charlotte Foust On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Other than the fact that it's a bloated PITA and there are much better > development > environments out there? :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 Nov 2011 at 10:10, newsgrps wrote: > > > Thanks. Looks like I have no excuse not to jump into the world of dot > net :-) > > > > At 9/11/2011, Charlotte Foust wrote: > > >My last employer used Access or SQL Server backends for their commercial > > >.Net product. Access was included for those clients who weren't ready > to > > >go full-blown SQL Server. There was no reason for Access to be > installed > > >on the machines at all because the Jet engine was already there and > that's > > >all that was required. > > > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > > > >On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks David, > > > > > > > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. > I was > > > > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > > > > > > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > > > > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access > installed > > > > will installing Jet cause problems? > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > > > > > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for > > > >> testing/learning. > > > >> > > > >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it > only > > > >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than > installing and > > > >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life > out of > > > >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. > > > >> > > > >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no > > > >> support for forms). > > > >> > > > >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper > to > > > >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install > it for > > > >> you. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use > an mdb > > > >> if > > > >> you prefer. > > > >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using > Access > > > >> as the FE. > > > >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime > (although > > > >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). > > > >> > > > >> HTH, > > > >> David > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > > >> > > > > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple > > > >> windows > > > >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single > table of > > > >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > > > >> > > > > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok > but I > > > >> am > > > >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use > SQL > > > >> Server > > > >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - > likely > > > >> users > > > >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to > include > > > >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were > up to 5 > > > >> > tables). > > > >> > > > > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual > distribution > > > >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > > >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > this > > > >> job?) > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Regards > > > >> > > > > >> > David Emerson > > > >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > > > >> > Wellington, New Zealand > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 16:13:16 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 11:13:16 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks - more food for thought (lets hope Stuart doesn't choke on this one:-).) At 9/11/2011, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > > > > newsgrps: > > ... > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > this job?) > > > > >David, > >Consider SQLite: >http://www.sqlite.org/ > >They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): >http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers > >-Ken >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 16:19:09 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:19:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Suggesting XML files as a substitute for a database. That is one of the worst possible uses of the "non-solution to a non-problem" called XML -- Stuart On 9 Nov 2011 at 10:32, newsgrps wrote: > And the reasons for the near hasty exit of your early morning > culinary delights? > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > > At 9/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >Arghh! > > > >I just about lost my breakfast there. :) > > > >-- > >Stuart > >On 8 Nov 2011 at 14:14, jwcolby wrote: > > > > > For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 16:23:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:23:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: , , <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB9ABD3.32419.1E5FAD5D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No, I heartily concur with that recommendation. SQLite is an excellent solution for single user applications with moderate data storage needs. -- Stuart On 9 Nov 2011 at 11:13, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks - more food for thought (lets hope Stuart doesn't choke on this one:-).) > > > At 9/11/2011, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > > > > > > newsgrps: > > > ... > > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > > this job?) > > > > > > > >David, > > > >Consider SQLite: > >http://www.sqlite.org/ > > > >They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): > >http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers > > > >-Ken > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 16:24:41 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:24:41 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: That's the reason that I started learning how to program Androids. WM7 dropped support for WinForms and SSCE. Stupid Stupid Stupid. They want developers to redo their apps in Silverlight and XML tables. Not! On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Suggesting XML files as a substitute for a database. > > That is one of the worst possible uses of the "non-solution to a > non-problem" called XML > > -- > Stuart > > > On 9 Nov 2011 at 10:32, newsgrps wrote: > > > And the reasons for the near hasty exit of your early morning > > culinary delights? > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand > > > > At 9/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > >Arghh! > > > > > >I just about lost my breakfast there. :) > > > > > >-- > > >Stuart > > >On 8 Nov 2011 at 14:14, jwcolby wrote: > > > > > > > For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > > > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 16:55:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:55:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108193128.ITIA15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> <20111108193128.ITIA15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB9B375.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> Oh yea, performance on any modern computer would be instantaneous with that little data. It wouldn't scale well though. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 2:31 PM, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks John, > > Would 50 fields (mixture of text and numbers) and 200 records be considered small? > > Not having dealt with XML before, would the idea be to load the table at the beginning of a session > and then save it at the end (or at regular intervals)? > > David > > At 9/11/2011, jwcolby wrote: >> For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/8/2011 2:04 PM, newsgrps wrote: >>> This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >>> >>> I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows application project that >>> can be distributed that has a single table of address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 >>> tables). >>> >>> My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am unsure about the database >>> part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both of these seem overkill in this >>> situation - likely users will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include >>> runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 tables). >>> >>> Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution what would be a suitable >>> solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool >>> for this job?) >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> David Emerson >>> Dalyn Software Ltd >>> Wellington, New Zealand > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 16:57:22 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:57:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EB9B3D2.6040705@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL. I hear ya, I am not a proponent of XML, however for tiny solutions and in particular for learning stuff it works just fine. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 4:15 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Arghh! > > I just about lost my breakfast there. :) > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 16:59:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:59:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB9B43B.6060302@colbyconsulting.com> The nice thing is that you can often switch data stores with minimal code change. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 5:13 PM, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks - more food for thought (lets hope Stuart doesn't choke on this one:-).) > > > At 9/11/2011, Kenneth Ismert wrote: >> > >> > newsgrps: >> > ... >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this job?) >> > >> > >> David, >> >> Consider SQLite: >> http://www.sqlite.org/ >> >> They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): >> http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers >> >> -Ken >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 16:59:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:59:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EB9B465.2000100@colbyconsulting.com> He didn't say a database he said a table. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 5:19 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Suggesting XML files as a substitute for a database. > > That is one of the worst possible uses of the "non-solution to a non-problem" called XML > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 8 17:17:35 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 23:17:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... In-Reply-To: <52B52AC0C97E4A8DA128712A581A312F@nant> References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5421@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <52B52AC0C97E4A8DA128712A581A312F@nant> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D6E04@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hi Shamil. If Excel is in automatic mode when the workbook is opened the calculation will take place before any VBA event fires, so you cannot prevent it. You can switch to manual calc in the workbook_open event but this happens after the workbook is open. If the problem is caused by opening a workbook in a later version of excel than the version that last calculated it, you can apply a registry fix. Note that Excel sets the calculation mode from the first workbook opened in a session: when you open two workbooks, one saved in manual mode and one saved in automatic mode, they will both have the calculation mode of the first workbook opened. So based on this there may be a kludge type workaround. That is to use code to open a blank workbook and set the calculation mode to manual, and then open your 2nd workbook. This should prevent the second workbook for auto calcing on open. I have not tested this, but it should work based on the info above. You can then set calc to manual in your 'real' workbook as part of the open event using Private Sub Workbook_Open() Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual End Sub I will keep poking around. Can you tell me which version of XL you will be using for this? Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 11:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. MS Excel has also a "sub-option" for 'Manual' recalculation mode: "Recalculate Workbook before saving". I would like it to be switched off by VBA code - and I can't find how. Also even with 'Manual' recalculation mode set manually, and "Recalculate Workbook before saving" set manually to false, when workbook is closed and reopened it gets all its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn - and I wanted to suppress that "automatism" completely. Do know how to do that? Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I could be out of this forum for a couple of days... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: 8 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:22 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi Samil In Excel VBA you need to use the following. You might need to set the excel application first in Access VBA, depending on how you are calling Excel. If you are using an Excel Template, you can just put then xlCalcManual code in the workbook open event instead. 1: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual 4: Application.Calculate or Application.CalculateFull 6: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationAutomatic Now you can either call them from Access VBA or for Excel VBA, depending on how you are controlling XL. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 11:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi All -- Somehow I can't get the subj working properly. How do you make MS Excel workbook recalculation/charts redrawn implemented there using VBA Automation without SendKeys - could you please post a VBA code snippet? I would like to 1) set MS Excel option of Automatic formulas recalculation off on MS Excel start-up, then; 2) open existing workbook with formulas and charts; 3) get backend db data retrieved into one or more worksheets, which cells are referred in formulas and charts; 4) run recalculation of whole workbook; 5) save workbook 6) set Automatic recalculation option back to its default 'Auto' value... I d not know how to make (1),(6) and(4) working via Automation. Please advise. Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 17:30:54 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 09:30:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB9B465.2000100@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4EB9B465.2000100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB9BBAE.20364.1E9D9E9F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> He actually said: "single table of address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables)." Once you have 5 tables, you definitely have a database :-) -- Stuart On 8 Nov 2011 at 17:59, jwcolby wrote: > He didn't say a database he said a table. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/8/2011 5:19 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > Suggesting XML files as a substitute for a database. > > > > That is one of the worst possible uses of the "non-solution to a non-problem" called XML > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 17:42:30 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 09:42:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB9ABD3.32419.1E5FAD5D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB9ABD3.32419.1E5FAD5D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EB9BE66.30901.1EA83B6B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> If you decide to go with SQLite, check out the SQLite manager add-on for Firefox, it is a great GUI tool for managing SQLite databases -- Stuart On 9 Nov 2011 at 8:23, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > No, I heartily concur with that recommendation. > > SQLite is an excellent solution for single user applications with moderate data storage needs. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 Nov 2011 at 11:13, newsgrps wrote: > > > Thanks - more food for thought (lets hope Stuart doesn't choke on this one:-).) > > > > > > At 9/11/2011, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > > > > > > > > newsgrps: > > > > ... > > > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > > > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > > > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > > > this job?) > > > > > > > > > > >David, > > > > > >Consider SQLite: > > >http://www.sqlite.org/ > > > > > >They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): > > >http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers > > > > > >-Ken > > >-- > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Nov 9 03:29:06 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 13:29:06 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Forcing_MS_Excel_workbook_to_get=09itsformula?= =?utf-8?q?s=09recalculated_and_charts_redrawn_using_Automation=2E=2E=2E?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D6E04@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> <52B52AC0C97E4A8DA128712A581A312F@nant> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D6E04@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. I' m using MS Excel 2010. I'm working on C# Excel Automation custom solution (in principle/on conceptual COM technology level there is no any difference in coding C# or VBA MS Excel Automation). The task is to have MS Excel workbook opened, run calculations and saved. Easy of course. But workbook recalculations and charts redraw don't work properly/at all. I must note I do use OpenXML SDK 2.0 (http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=5124) to fill workbook's data in "Excel Automation free" mode - OpenXML SDK works with MS Excel workbooks on file/workbook's XML package level providing high level operations to manipulate worksheets cells' data, charts etc. After workbook's data is filled using open XML SDK I do use Automation to open workbook and to run calculations and charts redraw (Open XML SDK doesn't have functionality to run Excel calculations) - and that calculation and redraw do not work (well). It could be side-effect of using OpenXML SDK to fill workbook's data. I will work more on this issue and I will keep posting on my progress. It should be easy task, just missing something I guess... Opening MS Excel workbook using Automation, setting manual recalculation mode and related options are needed mainly for testing. Thank you. -- Shamil 09 ?????? 2011, 03:19 ?? Darryl Collins : > Hi Shamil. > > If Excel is in automatic mode when the workbook is opened the calculation will take place before any VBA event fires, so you cannot prevent it. > You can switch to manual calc in the workbook_open event but this happens after the workbook is open. > > If the problem is caused by opening a workbook in a later version of excel than the version that last calculated it, you can apply a registry fix. > > Note that Excel sets the calculation mode from the first workbook opened in a session: when you open two workbooks, one saved in manual mode and one saved in automatic mode, they will both have the calculation mode of the first workbook opened. > > So based on this there may be a kludge type workaround. That is to use code to open a blank workbook and set the calculation mode to manual, and then open your 2nd workbook. This should prevent the second workbook for auto calcing on open. I have not tested this, but it should work based on the info above. > > You can then set calc to manual in your 'real' workbook as part of the open event using > > Private Sub Workbook_Open() > Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual > End Sub > > I will keep poking around. Can you tell me which version of XL you will be using for this? > > Cheers > Darryl > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Nov 9 05:34:03 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 12:34:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project Message-ID: Hi David I would say that using XML is mostly for fun or if you need to exchange the data directly with "something else" that requires XML. Or if you somehow need manually to view or edit the data independently of your app, as this can be done with an XML tool like the simple and free XML Notepad from Microsoft. Only one file is used, thus all tables will be held in this, but records of these will be separated to fit the hierarchical structure your relations define. Thus, for example, records of order lines will be split to be stored with the orders they belong to, and the orders will again be split to fit the customers these belong to. You can then figure out that any saving of a record forces a rewrite of the full file. This, however, is very fast for small files. My recommendation would be to use the SQL Server Compact Edition. Only a small executable runs it, and SQL syntax is identical to its bigger brothers. Not that you need to write SQL - actually you should avoid it by using higher level coding like DataTables or EF (Entity Framework). Don't forget to sign up with our dba-VB list. /gustav >>> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz 08-11-2011 20:31 >>> Thanks John, Would 50 fields (mixture of text and numbers) and 200 records be considered small? Not having dealt with XML before, would the idea be to load the table at the beginning of a session and then save it at the end (or at regular intervals)? David At 9/11/2011, jwcolby wrote: >For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > >John W. Colby >Colby Consulting > >Reality is what refuses to go away >when you do not believe in it > >On 11/8/2011 2:04 PM, newsgrps wrote: >>This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >> >>I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple >>windows application project that >>can be distributed that has a single table of address information >>(perhaps being expanded to up to 5 >>tables). >> >>My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok >>but I am unsure about the database >>part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both >>of these seem overkill in this >>situation - likely users will not have either of these installed >>and it seems crazy to include >>runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up >>to 5 tables). >> >>Assuming that a similar application was created for actual >>distribution what would be a suitable >>solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot >>net application not the right tool >>for this job?) >> >> >>Regards >> >>David Emerson >>Dalyn Software Ltd >>Wellington, New Zealand From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 9 10:14:43 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 08:14:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a chance to grade their current endeavors. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it-programmer/3622?ta g=nl.e101 Jim From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Wed Nov 9 10:53:34 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 10:53:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I am resurrecting a database I created several years ago in Access 2003. On my custom menu bar on a report I have an icon to export to excel. When it exports there are columns in the excel file that are not in the report or in the query that the report is based on. What might my export to excel button be doing behind the scenes I have forgotten about? If I simply right click on the report and export the correct columns show up. Thanks. Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 11:38:23 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 12:38:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> Yep, I responded..... It might be good for younger, full-timers.... but if you are contracting and competing with the "mudmen", it really stinks...pay-wise. Couple that with the greedy agency "cuts"....and then after-taxes, can you say "slave labor" ? Recent survey shows that contracting agencies are 50% or more staffed with foreigners. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:15 AM > To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues.'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion > concerning MS SQL Server'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem > solving' > Subject: [AccessD] the IT market > > As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a > chance to grade their current endeavors. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it- > programmer/3622?ta > g=nl.e101 > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Wed Nov 9 11:41:48 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 11:41:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: Hi Chester, I've never had good luck exporting reports to Excel. Seems as the column and page headings confuse the export process and it sets up columns in the output file for those. I've sometimes been able to adjust the column and page headings to minimize this problem. But the queries themselves always export great so that is what I do. There also could be a slight variation in the version of the excel file for what is created by the menu driven option verses the code driven way. So perhaps that is catching you. Not much help really for you I'm afraid though. Best of luck getting it working to your liking. GK On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Kaup, Chester wrote: > I am resurrecting a database I created several years ago in Access 2003. On my custom menu bar on a report I have an icon to export to excel. When it exports there are columns in the excel file that are not in the report or in the query that the report is based on. What might my export to excel button be doing behind the scenes I have forgotten about? If I simply right click on the report and export the correct columns show up. > > Thanks. > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 > > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 9 14:07:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 15:07:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> Message-ID: <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> You want to get depressed? This was written in 2004. http://lieberman.senate.gov/assets/pdf/off_shoring.pdf In 2011 the process is just about complete and there are few jobs left. If you lose yours don't expect to get another. And if you get another, don't expect to keep it. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/9/2011 12:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Yep, I responded..... > It might be good for younger, full-timers.... > but if you are contracting and competing with the "mudmen", it really > stinks...pay-wise. > Couple that with the greedy agency "cuts"....and then after-taxes, can you > say "slave labor" ? > > Recent survey shows that contracting agencies are 50% or more staffed with > foreigners. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:15 AM >> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> issues.'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion >> concerning MS SQL Server'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem >> solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] the IT market >> >> As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a >> chance to grade their current endeavors. >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it- >> programmer/3622?ta >> g=nl.e101 >> >> Jim >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 14:26:48 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 15:26:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> The huge problem with any export to Excel is data timeliness....i.e. How "fresh" is the data ? Any time someone opens up the Excel workbook, the question becomes "when was this worksheet last updated from Access ?" An OLEDB Connection to any Access table or query can be generated statically within Excel or dynamically from Access using Excel automation. This guarantees data freshness and synchronization. The kicker is: not all Access Select queries will be addressable from Excel...i.e. when they contain "non-standard" SQL functions like "IIF". (This is another unforgiveable Microsoft "oversight" IMHO - there should have been an exception for Access queries !). In that case, you must go thru a "workaround" in creating a table on-the-fly from the query definition....and then perform an insert from the query result set. Of course the OLEDB connection property is always set to reference the table, not the query. On top of that, you must run that Insert query in the Excel query table BeforeQuery event ..this time with Access automation. Again, that only has to be done if the Select query is complex and not directly addressable via OLEDB. IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries Every time you open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just "there". Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever minutes....even when users are changing the data. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 9 15:02:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 07:02:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> Message-ID: <4EBAEA52.6429.4599C35@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Until you want to email the spreadsheet to someone who is not on your network. On 9 Nov 2011 at 15:26, Mark Simms wrote: > IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge > hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries > Every time you open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just > "there". Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever > minutes....even when users are changing the data. > From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Nov 9 15:02:23 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:02:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> Message-ID: <000b01cc9f22$e0c17120$a2445360$@comcast.net> Hi Mark, When I export a spreadsheet from Excel, I include the Date/Hour/Minute/Second in the name of the file. Just call this function and include the result in the file's name. You could write a timer-based Access sub to output the Excel file every X minutes (and delete the previous file). '-------------------- Public Function CurrentDateTimeString() As String Dim stgHour As String Dim stgMinute As String Dim stgSecond As String Dim dteDate As Date dteDate = CurrentDate If Len(Hour(Now())) = 1 Then stgHour = "0" & Hour(Now()) Else stgHour = Hour(Now()) End If If Len(Minute(Now())) = 1 Then stgMinute = "0" & Minute(Now()) Else stgMinute = Minute(Now()) End If If Len(Second(Now())) = 1 Then stgSecond = "0" & Second(Now()) Else stgSecond = Second(Now()) End If CurrentDateTimeString = Month(dteDate) & "-" & Day(dteDate) & "-" & Year(dteDate) & " " & stgHour & stgMinute & stgSecond Exit Function ErrEx.Bookmark = BOOKMARK_ONERROR End Function '-------------------- Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 2:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to excel The huge problem with any export to Excel is data timeliness....i.e. How "fresh" is the data ? Any time someone opens up the Excel workbook, the question becomes "when was this worksheet last updated from Access ?" An OLEDB Connection to any Access table or query can be generated statically within Excel or dynamically from Access using Excel automation. This guarantees data freshness and synchronization. The kicker is: not all Access Select queries will be addressable from Excel...i.e. when they contain "non-standard" SQL functions like "IIF". (This is another unforgiveable Microsoft "oversight" IMHO - there should have been an exception for Access queries !). In that case, you must go thru a "workaround" in creating a table on-the-fly from the query definition....and then perform an insert from the query result set. Of course the OLEDB connection property is always set to reference the table, not the query. On top of that, you must run that Insert query in the Excel query table BeforeQuery event ..this time with Access automation. Again, that only has to be done if the Select query is complex and not directly addressable via OLEDB. IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries Every time you open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just "there". Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever minutes....even when users are changing the data. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 9 15:05:18 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 07:05:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> Message-ID: <4EBAEB0E.17442.45C7709@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Or, unless you need a snapshot at one point in time. On 9 Nov 2011 at 15:26, Mark Simms wrote: > > IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge > hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries > Every time you open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just > "there". Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever > minutes....even when users are changing the data. > From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Nov 9 15:09:19 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:09:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <4EBAEB0E.17442.45C7709@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> <4EBAEB0E.17442.45C7709@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000c01cc9f23$d9016200$8b042600$@comcast.net> Give everyone a shortcut to an access database that does nothing but export that spreadsheet. The access database should automatically, open, export, and close. Walla! Snapshot in time. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 3:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to excel Or, unless you need a snapshot at one point in time. On 9 Nov 2011 at 15:26, Mark Simms wrote: > > IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge > hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries Every time you > open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just "there". > Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever minutes....even > when users are changing the data. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 9 15:38:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 16:38:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Is Silverlight going away? Message-ID: <4EBAF2DA.4000107@colbyconsulting.com> Hints that maybe... http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/09/8717108-adobe-gives-up-on-mobile-flash-focuses-on-open-web-standards Or maybe not. ;) -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 16:02:44 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 17:02:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <4EBAEA52.6429.4599C35@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> <4EBAEA52.6429.4599C35@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001601cc9f2b$4f78f900$ee6aeb00$@net> That's no problem...as with all Excel linkages that are broken, the most recent data is still there. It's just not going to update of course. > Until you want to email the spreadsheet to someone who is not on your > network. From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 16:06:16 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 17:06:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001701cc9f2b$ce187060$6a495120$@net> Interestingly, the survey results to date certainly confirms this fact: There are no "big bucks" in the profession any longer. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it-programmer/3622?ta g=nl.e101 > > You want to get depressed? This was written in 2004. > > http://lieberman.senate.gov/assets/pdf/off_shoring.pdf > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 9 16:16:45 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:16:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> Message-ID: <0FDE3ECF4B2047588F6490A9203738EB@creativesystemdesigns.com> And the resultant apps are terrible as a cheaply paid IT guy does not give a crap...he or she is not paid to care. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 9:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] the IT market Yep, I responded..... It might be good for younger, full-timers.... but if you are contracting and competing with the "mudmen", it really stinks...pay-wise. Couple that with the greedy agency "cuts"....and then after-taxes, can you say "slave labor" ? Recent survey shows that contracting agencies are 50% or more staffed with foreigners. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:15 AM > To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues.'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion > concerning MS SQL Server'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem > solving' > Subject: [AccessD] the IT market > > As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a > chance to grade their current endeavors. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it- > programmer/3622?ta > g=nl.e101 > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 9 16:26:07 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 15:26:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market Message-ID: <20111109152607.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.60f0f674d9.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> i note that the distribution of responses on the questions is roughly the same. rating scale of 1-5 - responses 2 & 3 getting 75%+ of the votes. So not too informative. wonder if the distribution woud be markedly different for other professions or if this is just a reflection of human nature. R -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [AccessD] the IT market From: "Mark Simms" Date: Wed, November 09, 2011 3:06 pm To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Interestingly, the survey results to date certainly confirms this fact: There are no "big bucks" in the profession any longer. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it-programmer/3622?ta g=nl.e101 > > You want to get depressed? This was written in 2004. > > http://lieberman.senate.gov/assets/pdf/off_shoring.pdf > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 9 16:48:07 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:48:07 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: There are now too many IT people in the market today and schools just keep cranking them out. The market just does not need any more buggy-whip or wagon wheel makers or film developers or video stores...those are all history. We were just lucky we got in early and got ahead. Most of us old guys are either skilled enough to manage the jobs, do them ourselves or are in a position to just retire (A semi-work environment until you really retire, at 85). The young guys are not in very good positions. (As I understand, Drew's position was on the way out as they were looking for a couple of young guys, unattached, that could do a lot of travelling and of course, be paid less...and also would have a full BS or BCS degree) The truth is that the only semi-secure positions are through the government. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 12:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] the IT market You want to get depressed? This was written in 2004. http://lieberman.senate.gov/assets/pdf/off_shoring.pdf In 2011 the process is just about complete and there are few jobs left. If you lose yours don't expect to get another. And if you get another, don't expect to keep it. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/9/2011 12:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Yep, I responded..... > It might be good for younger, full-timers.... > but if you are contracting and competing with the "mudmen", it really > stinks...pay-wise. > Couple that with the greedy agency "cuts"....and then after-taxes, can you > say "slave labor" ? > > Recent survey shows that contracting agencies are 50% or more staffed with > foreigners. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:15 AM >> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> issues.'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion >> concerning MS SQL Server'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem >> solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] the IT market >> >> As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a >> chance to grade their current endeavors. >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it- >> programmer/3622?ta >> g=nl.e101 >> >> Jim >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 18:51:13 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 19:51:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <0FDE3ECF4B2047588F6490A9203738EB@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> <0FDE3ECF4B2047588F6490A9203738EB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <002901cc9f42$d8ecb070$8ac61150$@net> I've witnessed this for sure. I mean, my goodness, my recent experience with MSI and their driver update program... says it all....just incredible. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 5:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] the IT market > > > And the resultant apps are terrible as a cheaply paid IT guy does not > give a > crap...he or she is not paid to care. > > Jim From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 07:14:50 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:14:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version Message-ID: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 07:58:07 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:58:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <004001cc9fb0$c69b51b0$53d1f510$@net> A heckuvan article.... A 2 week discussion over which clothes washer to buy ? Blow your horn while getting a speeding ticket ? Can you say "Obsessive / Compulsive disorder" ? This guy had some "issues". > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:15 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version > > > http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?cu > rrentPage=all > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 08:23:46 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:23:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, Interesting article. Thanks for posting the link. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 08:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?current Page=all -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 10 11:14:08 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:14:08 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Excellent article. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 5:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?current Page=all -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Nov 10 11:28:06 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:28:06 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> It takes a certain kind of person to be Jobs. Obviously he was very OCD and no saint, but, at the end of the day, it's that sort of meticulous attention to detail that has obviously been Apples success. I find it interesting how we often summarize a persons entire life and career in a few short anecdotes, but, in any case, you can look back at many personalities and see that same sort of obsessive behaviour - one that comes to mind of Walt Disney, but history is littered with them. I find it also interesting how we often imbue such people with our own preconceived and simplistic personalities - Jobs as an obsessive narcissist, Gates as a contemplative philanthropist, Zuckerberg as a young, ruthless geek, Brin/Page as quirky academic types, Ellison as a cold elitist businessman, Balmer as a maniac, etc etc? when, in reality, they are a lot more complicated than that and share a lot more in common with each other than we would like to think. This is an interesting paper on such personalities: Narcissistic Leaders: The Incredible Pros, the Inevitable Cons (Harvard Business Review) http://showsupport.typepad.com/odyssey/files/ccc-081208-macoby.pdf - Hans On 2011-11-10, at 5:14 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Thu Nov 10 11:31:25 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:31:25 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7E035@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I figured out what I did on the toolbar. I created an icon that said export to Excel but actually ran a query and then exported the results to excel. Just needed to modify the query it was running. At least we got some good discussion on exporting to Excel. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to excel Hi Chester, I've never had good luck exporting reports to Excel. Seems as the column and page headings confuse the export process and it sets up columns in the output file for those. I've sometimes been able to adjust the column and page headings to minimize this problem. But the queries themselves always export great so that is what I do. There also could be a slight variation in the version of the excel file for what is created by the menu driven option verses the code driven way. So perhaps that is catching you. Not much help really for you I'm afraid though. Best of luck getting it working to your liking. GK On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Kaup, Chester wrote: > I am resurrecting a database I created several years ago in Access 2003. On my custom menu bar on a report I have an icon to export to excel. When it exports there are columns in the excel file that are not in the report or in the query that the report is based on. What might my export to excel button be doing behind the scenes I have forgotten about? If I simply right click on the report and export the correct columns show up. > > Thanks. > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 > > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 11:34:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:34:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 7 / Access 2007 - form events cause error Message-ID: <4EBC0B2F.6050604@colbyconsulting.com> It appears that suddenly this morning Any form with an event causes an error which prevents the form from opening. I have a form which has no events and it opens. as soon as I double click the onOpen and cause the "[Event Procedure]" to be placed in the property the form refuses to open. The error is: The Expression On Open you entered as the event property setting produces the following error: Object or class does not support the set of events. This occurs in any form in any FE. I am sooooo tired of Access nonsense. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 11:36:21 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:36:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] You probably already know this (and now I do too) Message-ID: <4EBC0B95.4030301@colbyconsulting.com> Windows 7 and Access: http://allenbrowne.com/bug-17.html -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 11:48:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:48:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 7 and Access multi-versions security hooey Message-ID: <4EBC0E6A.6090006@colbyconsulting.com> I chose the first solution to modify the one registry key. Opened 2010 Access and then 2003 access (to do the reinstall thing) and I am back in business. http://allenbrowne.com/bug-17.html -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 12:15:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:15:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EBC14C4.2080607@colbyconsulting.com> This is an interesting read, however it would be even more interesting if he would expound every time he throws out a name. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/10/2011 12:28 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > > It takes a certain kind of person to be Jobs. Obviously he was very OCD and no saint, but, at the end of the day, it's that sort of meticulous attention to detail that has obviously been Apples success. I find it interesting how we often summarize a persons entire life and career in a few short anecdotes, but, in any case, you can look back at many personalities and see that same sort of obsessive behaviour - one that comes to mind of Walt Disney, but history is littered with them. > > I find it also interesting how we often imbue such people with our own preconceived and simplistic personalities - Jobs as an obsessive narcissist, Gates as a contemplative philanthropist, Zuckerberg as a young, ruthless geek, Brin/Page as quirky academic types, Ellison as a cold elitist businessman, Balmer as a maniac, etc etc? when, in reality, they are a lot more complicated than that and share a lot more in common with each other than we would like to think. > > This is an interesting paper on such personalities: > Narcissistic Leaders: The Incredible Pros, the Inevitable Cons (Harvard Business Review) > http://showsupport.typepad.com/odyssey/files/ccc-081208-macoby.pdf > > > - Hans > > > > > On 2011-11-10, at 5:14 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >> >> http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 13:21:59 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:21:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another Message-ID: Dear List: I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the target and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 14:06:44 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:06:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error Message-ID: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Dear List: Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second database, the following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' statement. db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the target and tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. and db1 is set to CurrentDb. What am I doing wrong? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 14:10:21 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:10:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net> When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some existing ones updated ? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > Dear List: > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record from > one > database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick tricks for > doing this? I have the path and file name of the target and the table > will > be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 14:13:43 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:13:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 7 / Access 2007 - form events cause error In-Reply-To: <4EBC0B2F.6050604@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBC0B2F.6050604@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <005201cc9fe5$3f59f910$be0deb30$@net> VBA Security set to "Low" ? (not recommended) > > This occurs in any form in any FE. > > I am sooooo tired of Access nonsense. From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 14:16:52 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:16:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> Message-ID: <005301cc9fe5$aff073c0$0fd15b40$@net> He had "issues" alright...but the money was right there beside them. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 14:18:22 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:18:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net> References: <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net> Message-ID: <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that match up. But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I was trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get the right syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a text box. But this is not working: db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that match the source so the source records can all be appended in one swell foop. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some existing ones updated ? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > Dear List: > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick > tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the target > and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 14:19:48 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:19:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: Can you link to the table in the other database and do an insertion using a LEFT JOIN / unmatched query? On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second database, > the > following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' statement. > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & > " > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the target > and > tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. and db1 is set > to CurrentDb. > > What am I doing wrong? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 14:57:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:57:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: <9998F5073CD443FF90873E2888DE6ED4@HAL9007> That would be second easiest solution - after a simple SQL statement. :) Guess I'll go that way next. Tks. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error Can you link to the table in the other database and do an insertion using a LEFT JOIN / unmatched query? On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second > database, the following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' > statement. > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the > target and tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. > and db1 is set to CurrentDb. > > What am I doing wrong? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 15:29:01 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:29:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 7 / Access 2007 - form events cause error In-Reply-To: <005201cc9fe5$3f59f910$be0deb30$@net> References: <4EBC0B2F.6050604@colbyconsulting.com> <005201cc9fe5$3f59f910$be0deb30$@net> Message-ID: <4EBC421D.1010602@colbyconsulting.com> Yep. It is an inability of Access to write to the registry that causes the issue. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/10/2011 3:13 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > VBA Security set to "Low" ? (not recommended) >> >> This occurs in any form in any FE. >> >> I am sooooo tired of Access nonsense. > > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 15:34:17 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:34:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: Does the tblProductStructure already exist? If so, you would have to append records rather than inserting the table. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second database, > the > following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' statement. > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & > " > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the target > and > tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. and db1 is set > to CurrentDb. > > What am I doing wrong? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 10 15:39:42 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 07:39:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> References: , <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net>, <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Any spaces in the target database's path? -- Stuart On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that match > up. > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I was > trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get the right > syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a text box. > > But this is not working: > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & > " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that match > the source so the source records can all be appended in one swell foop. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching keys > from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some existing ones > updated ? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > Dear List: > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick > > tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the target > > and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 10 15:48:54 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 07:48:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007>, <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EBC46C6.14010.9AA9964@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Also, drop the .* after tblProductStructure. On 11 Nov 2011 at 7:39, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Any spaces in the target database's path? > > -- > Stuart > > On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that match > > up. > > > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I was > > trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get the right > > syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a text box. > > > > But this is not working: > > > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & > > " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that match > > the source so the source records can all be appended in one swell foop. > > > > R > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching keys > > from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some existing ones > > updated ? > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick > > > tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the target > > > and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > 858-259-4334 > > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 15:50:25 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:50:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net>, <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <1D2950F21CFE40549C18073826427127@HAL9007> NO - but I tried it with bracketing and same result. Anyway I added a few lines of code and got it working by brute force - couple of DAO recordsets, .AddNew, loop through the source fields --> target field, .Update, walla. Done. Not elegant but effective. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another Any spaces in the target database's path? -- Stuart On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that > match up. > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I > was trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get > the right syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a text box. > > But this is not working: > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that > match the source so the source records can all be appended in one swell foop. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching > keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some > existing ones updated ? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > Dear List: > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any > > slick tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the > > target and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 20:01:02 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:01:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: Rocky, If this is the sql you are using, you need a period here tblBOMReport.* (between the tablename and the asterix. jack On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Does the tblProductStructure already exist? If so, you would have to > append records rather than inserting the table. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin >wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second database, > > the > > following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' statement. > > > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase > & > > " > > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the target > > and > > tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. and db1 is > set > > to CurrentDb. > > > > What am I doing wrong? > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From pedro at plex.nl Fri Nov 11 13:09:45 2011 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:09:45 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] altered query Message-ID: <201111111209.pABC9jws015096@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Group, why does access 2003 mutates a query from: SELECT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, COUNT(Patientnummer) AS UniekePatienten FROM (SELECT DISTINCT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, Patientnummer FROM Data2) Unieke_Pat GROUP BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam ORDER BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam; To SELECT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, COUNT(Patientnummer) AS UniekePatienten FROM [SELECT DISTINCT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, Patientnummer FROM Data2]. AS Unieke_Pat GROUP BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam ORDER BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam; When opening the query in designer mode. Pedro From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Nov 11 10:47:53 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:47:53 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] altered query Message-ID: Hi Pedro Don't know why except that it is good ol' JET SQL syntax. /gustav >>> pedro at plex.nl 11-11-2011 13:09 >>> Hello Group, why does access 2003 mutates a query from: SELECT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, COUNT(Patientnummer) AS UniekePatienten FROM (SELECT DISTINCT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, Patientnummer FROM Data2) Unieke_Pat GROUP BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam ORDER BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam; To SELECT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, COUNT(Patientnummer) AS UniekePatienten FROM [SELECT DISTINCT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, Patientnummer FROM Data2]. AS Unieke_Pat GROUP BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam ORDER BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam; When opening the query in designer mode. Pedro From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Fri Nov 11 11:07:23 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:07:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <1D2950F21CFE40549C18073826427127@HAL9007> References: , <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net>, <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <1D2950F21CFE40549C18073826427127@HAL9007> Message-ID: You missed out the required single quotes.... db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in '" & Me.txtTargetDatabase & "' SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" I.e. the full path to the destination database needs to be surrounded with single quotes. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another NO - but I tried it with bracketing and same result. Anyway I added a few lines of code and got it working by brute force - couple of DAO recordsets, .AddNew, loop through the source fields --> target field, .Update, walla. Done. Not elegant but effective. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another Any spaces in the target database's path? -- Stuart On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that > match up. > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I > was trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get > the right syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a > text box. > > But this is not working: > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that > match the source so the source records can all be appended in one > swell foop. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching > keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some > existing ones updated ? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > Dear List: > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any > > slick tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the > > target and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Fri Nov 11 11:19:46 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:19:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: When appending, it is INSERT INTO TableName(Field, OtherField) In 'X:\SomePath\SomeFile.ext' SELECT Atable.Field, Atable.OtherField FROM Atable But for Make Tables it is SELECT Atable.Field, Atable.OtherField INTO SomeTable IN 'X:\SomePath\SomeFile.ext' FROM Atable But if all fields are being appended you don't need to specify the field names in parentheses So Rocky's solution would in fact be db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in '" & Me.txtTargetDatabase & "' SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" You can find all this out by imply building the query in design mode and then selecting 'Append' or 'Make-Table' fro the menus and choosing the 'Another Database' radio button in the dialog box. Then just look at the SQL Access has built for you. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error Does the tblProductStructure already exist? If so, you would have to append records rather than inserting the table. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second > database, the following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' > statement. > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the > target and tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. > and db1 is set to CurrentDb. > > What am I doing wrong? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Nov 11 12:10:21 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:10:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: References: , <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net>, <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007><4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><1D2950F21CFE40549C18073826427127@HAL9007> Message-ID: <53B73E82B26F462E8169515752FFDCD4@HAL9007> Aha! Thank you. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 9:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another You missed out the required single quotes.... db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in '" & Me.txtTargetDatabase & "' SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" I.e. the full path to the destination database needs to be surrounded with single quotes. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another NO - but I tried it with bracketing and same result. Anyway I added a few lines of code and got it working by brute force - couple of DAO recordsets, .AddNew, loop through the source fields --> target field, .Update, walla. Done. Not elegant but effective. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another Any spaces in the target database's path? -- Stuart On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that > match up. > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I > was trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get > the right syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a > text box. > > But this is not working: > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that > match the source so the source records can all be appended in one > swell foop. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching > keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some > existing ones updated ? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > Dear List: > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any > > slick tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the > > target and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 13:38:45 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:38:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Friday humor:SQL query problem Message-ID: http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Query-of-Despair.aspx Doug From davidmcafee at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 15:05:55 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:05:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Friday humor:SQL query problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I like the comment: "The problem is on page 4, line 27. Isn't that obvious to everyone? " On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Doug Steele wrote: > http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Query-of-Despair.aspx > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Nov 11 15:51:24 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:51:24 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Forcing_MS_Excel_workbook_to_get=09itsformula?= =?utf-8?q?s=09recalculated_and_charts_redrawn_using_Automation=2E=2E=2E?= In-Reply-To: References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D6E04@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- I have solved the issue - it was caused by improper OpenXML SDK 2.0 calls, when fixed C# -> MS Excel automated workbook recalculation started to work OK. Thank you for your help. -- Shamil 09 ?????? 2011, 13:31 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil : > Hi Darryl -- > > Thank you for your reply. > I' m using MS Excel 2010. > I'm working on C# Excel Automation custom solution (in principle/on conceptual COM technology level there is no any difference in coding C# or VBA MS Excel Automation). > The task is to have MS Excel workbook opened, run calculations and saved. > Easy of course. But workbook recalculations and charts redraw don't work properly/at all. > I must note I do use OpenXML SDK 2.0 (http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=5124) to fill workbook's data in "Excel Automation free" mode - OpenXML SDK works with MS Excel workbooks on file/workbook's XML package level providing high level operations to manipulate worksheets cells' data, charts etc. > After workbook's data is filled using open XML SDK I do use Automation to open workbook and to run calculations and charts redraw (Open XML SDK doesn't have functionality to run Excel calculations) - and that calculation and redraw do not work (well). > It could be side-effect of using OpenXML SDK to fill workbook's data. > I will work more on this issue and I will keep posting on my progress. > It should be easy task, just missing something I guess... > > Opening MS Excel workbook using Automation, setting manual recalculation mode and related options are needed mainly for testing. > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 09 ?????? 2011, 03:19 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Hi Shamil. > > > > If Excel is in automatic mode when the workbook is opened the calculation will take place before any VBA event fires, so you cannot prevent it. > > You can switch to manual calc in the workbook_open event but this happens after the workbook is open. > > > > If the problem is caused by opening a workbook in a later version of excel than the version that last calculated it, you can apply a registry fix. > > > > Note that Excel sets the calculation mode from the first workbook opened in a session: when you open two workbooks, one saved in manual mode and one saved in automatic mode, they will both have the calculation mode of the first workbook opened. > > > > So based on this there may be a kludge type workaround. That is to use code to open a blank workbook and set the calculation mode to manual, and then open your 2nd workbook. This should prevent the second workbook for auto calcing on open. I have not tested this, but it should work based on the info above. > > > > You can then set calc to manual in your 'real' workbook as part of the open event using > > > > Private Sub Workbook_Open() > > Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual > > End Sub > > > > I will keep poking around. Can you tell me which version of XL you will be using for this? > > > > Cheers > > Darryl > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 11 17:00:23 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 09:00:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny In-Reply-To: <4EB45B66.31477.99D6FF3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com>, , <4EB45B66.31477.99D6FF3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EBDA907.20512.F126DED@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And a further explanation of licencing: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/11/bofh_2011_episode_18/ On 5 Nov 2011 at 7:38, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > What version numbers really mean: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/04/bofh_2011_episode_17/ > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 11 18:07:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 19:07:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Friday humor:SQL query problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EBDB8AF.1000404@colbyconsulting.com> You laugh. I have a *potential* client which has a peachtree installation. It uses a SQL Server query to pull aggregate data. The queru looks just about like that. And... it is in SQL Server 2000 TSQL which is... antiquated syntax. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/11/2011 2:38 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Query-of-Despair.aspx > > Doug From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 01:12:03 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 02:12:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny In-Reply-To: <4EBDA907.20512.F126DED@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB45B66.31477.99D6FF3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EBDA907.20512.F126DED@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Yikes! Someone has now demanded payments for using my keyboard and mouse. On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:00 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > And a further explanation of licencing: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/11/bofh_2011_episode_18/ > > > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Nov 12 01:18:13 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 00:18:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny Message-ID: <20111112001813.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.ba3509efd7.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Don't let them use it! (English is such an odd language) R -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny From: Arthur Fuller Date: Sat, November 12, 2011 12:12 am To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Yikes! Someone has now demanded payments for using my keyboard and mouse. On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:00 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > And a further explanation of licencing: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/11/bofh_2011_episode_18/ > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 06:27:54 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 07:27:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Country Regions Message-ID: I already have the ISO list of countries. I would now like a list of CountryRegions (thereby sidestepping the issue of whether we call them States or Provinces or Cantons, etc.). Does anyone know of such a list and if so, a download URL? -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 08:26:40 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 09:26:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Message-ID: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012-licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from clients and massive switching to MySQL and the likes. I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Sat Nov 12 09:28:36 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 10:28:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Country Regions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Arthur, This may be a starting point http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2 jack -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 7:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Cc: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [AccessD] Country Regions I already have the ISO list of countries. I would now like a list of CountryRegions (thereby sidestepping the issue of whether we call them States or Provinces or Cantons, etc.). Does anyone know of such a list and if so, a download URL? -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 12 09:39:11 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 10:39:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with Oracle... This is so "Balmer-like". > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more > expensive > > http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012- > licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ > > The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL > Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. > > I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from > clients and massive > switching to MySQL and the likes. > > I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 09:54:27 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 10:54:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Country Regions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks! You're right: it's a starting point. Normalization required LOL. But that said, once I'm finished with the normalization, I'll make the result available for everyone. A. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Jack and Pat wrote: > Arthur, > > This may be a starting point > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2 > > jack > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 10:11:26 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 11:11:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a complete waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, and I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be dealt with in a VM. So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. You don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of December. Wow. Party hearty. Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist government, I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of Lucky MoFus. Arthur On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. > IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the > ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. > Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with Oracle... > This is so "Balmer-like". > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more > > expensive > > > > http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012- > > licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ > > > > The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL > > Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. > > > > I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from > > clients and massive > > switching to MySQL and the likes. > > > > I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 10:47:51 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 11:47:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> Arthur, Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play in MariaDB. Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both times. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. > See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the > last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a complete > waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, and > I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu > and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs > inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so > the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be dealt > with in a VM. > > So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. You > don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a > semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated > December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net > connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of > December. Wow. Party hearty. > > Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist government, > I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of Lucky > MoFus. > > Arthur > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with Oracle... >> This is so "Balmer-like". >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>> expensive >>> >>> http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012- >>> licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ >>> >>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>> >>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>> clients and massive >>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>> >>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 12:35:30 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 13:35:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other sources (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) What I do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: mounts the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far yet On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolby wrote: > Arthur, > > Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V > is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to > switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play > in MariaDB. > > Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in > Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both > times. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > >> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. >> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the >> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >> complete >> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >> and >> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so >> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >> dealt >> with in a VM. >> >> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >> You >> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net >> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >> December. Wow. Party hearty. >> >> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >> government, >> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >> Lucky >> MoFus. >> >> Arthur >> >> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >> wrote: >> >> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>> Oracle... >>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com[mailto: >>>> accessd- >>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>> expensive >>>> >>>> http://sqlserverperformance.**wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-** >>>> server-2012- >>>> licensing-and-hardware-**considerations/ >>>> >>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>> >>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>>> clients and massive >>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>> >>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John W. Colby >>>> Colby Consulting >>>> >>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>> when you do not believe in it >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>> >>> >> >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 13:26:28 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 14:26:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> I am downloading 4 different distros. Every one claims to just fire up and go. We shall see. Of course getting MariaDb to go after that is one more thing to make happen. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 1:35 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that > Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other sources > (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) What I > do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the > downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: mounts > the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) > > Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far yet > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolbywrote: > >> Arthur, >> >> Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V >> is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to >> switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play >> in MariaDB. >> >> Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in >> Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both >> times. >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >> >>> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. >>> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the >>> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >>> complete >>> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >>> and >>> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >>> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >>> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so >>> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >>> dealt >>> with in a VM. >>> >>> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >>> You >>> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >>> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >>> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net >>> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >>> December. Wow. Party hearty. >>> >>> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >>> government, >>> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >>> Lucky >>> MoFus. >>> >>> Arthur >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >>> wrote: >>> >>> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>>> Oracle... >>>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com[mailto: >>>>> accessd- >>>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>>> expensive >>>>> >>>>> http://sqlserverperformance.**wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-** >>>>> server-2012- >>>>> licensing-and-hardware-**considerations/ >>>>> >>>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>>> >>>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>>>> clients and massive >>>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>>> >>>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> John W. Colby >>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>> >>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >> > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 14:30:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:30:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> Fedora just hung showing the pretty submarine. It can't shutdown, power down only. Won't release the virtual cd so that I can install the tools. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I am downloading 4 different distros. Every one claims to just fire up and go. We shall see. Of > course getting MariaDb to go after that is one more thing to make happen. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/12/2011 1:35 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >> I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that >> Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other sources >> (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) What I >> do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the >> downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: mounts >> the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) >> >> Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far yet >> >> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolbywrote: >> >>> Arthur, >>> >>> Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V >>> is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to >>> switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play >>> in MariaDB. >>> >>> Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in >>> Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both >>> times. >>> >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>> >>>> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. >>>> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the >>>> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >>>> complete >>>> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >>>> and >>>> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >>>> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >>>> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so >>>> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >>>> dealt >>>> with in a VM. >>>> >>>> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >>>> You >>>> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >>>> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >>>> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net >>>> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >>>> December. Wow. Party hearty. >>>> >>>> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >>>> government, >>>> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >>>> Lucky >>>> MoFus. >>>> >>>> Arthur >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>>>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>>>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>>>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>>>> Oracle... >>>>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com[mailto: >>>>>> accessd- >>>>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>>>> expensive >>>>>> >>>>>> http://sqlserverperformance.**wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-** >>>>>> server-2012- >>>>>> licensing-and-hardware-**considerations/ >>>>>> >>>>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>>>> >>>>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>>>>> clients and massive >>>>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>> >> >> >> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 14:36:04 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:36:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I was never a big fan of Fedora; same problems as you. Ubuntu and Mint are my chosen paths. A. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 3:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Fedora just hung showing the pretty submarine. It can't shutdown, power > down only. Won't release the virtual cd so that I can install the tools. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> I am downloading 4 different distros. Every one claims to just fire up >> and go. We shall see. Of >> course getting MariaDb to go after that is one more thing to make happen. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/12/2011 1:35 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >> >>> I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that >>> Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other >>> sources >>> (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) >>> What I >>> do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the >>> downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: >>> mounts >>> the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) >>> >>> Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far >>> yet >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolby >>> >wrote: >>> >>> Arthur, >>>> >>>> Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V >>>> is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to >>>> switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play >>>> in MariaDB. >>>> >>>> Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in >>>> Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both >>>> times. >>>> >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> Colby Consulting >>>> >>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>> when you do not believe in it >>>> >>>> On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>>> >>>> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small >>>>> DBs. >>>>> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent >>>>> the >>>>> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >>>>> complete >>>>> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >>>>> and >>>>> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >>>>> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >>>>> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system >>>>> so >>>>> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >>>>> dealt >>>>> with in a VM. >>>>> >>>>> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >>>>> You >>>>> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >>>>> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >>>>> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, >>>>> net >>>>> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >>>>> December. Wow. Party hearty. >>>>> >>>>> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >>>>> government, >>>>> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >>>>> Lucky >>>>> MoFus. >>>>> >>>>> Arthur >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>>>> >>>>>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>>>>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>>>>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>>>>> Oracle... >>>>>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvi**sors.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >[mailto: >>>>>>> accessd- >>>>>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>>>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>>>>> expensive >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://sqlserverperformance.****wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-**** >>>>>>> server-2012->>>>>> wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-**server-2012- >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> licensing-and-hardware-****considerations/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>>>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> clients and massive >>>>>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com>>>>>> databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com>>>>> databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com>>> databaseadvisors.com > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 15:14:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:14:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EBEE1A7.5030700@colbyconsulting.com> OpenSUSE Showed promise. Seemed to install. Turned into a black screen. Shutdown, turned it back on and I am at a pretty green desktop with folder icons. Linux Integration Service doesn't just install... It seems in fact that the Linux Integration Service only works on a small handful of distros. Now I remember why I stopped trying... ;) John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 3:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Fedora just hung showing the pretty submarine. It can't shutdown, power down only. Won't release the > virtual cd so that I can install the tools. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> I am downloading 4 different distros. Every one claims to just fire up and go. We shall see. Of >> course getting MariaDb to go after that is one more thing to make happen. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/12/2011 1:35 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>> I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that >>> Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other sources >>> (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) What I >>> do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the >>> downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: mounts >>> the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) >>> >>> Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far yet >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolbywrote: >>> >>>> Arthur, >>>> >>>> Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V >>>> is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to >>>> switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play >>>> in MariaDB. >>>> >>>> Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in >>>> Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both >>>> times. >>>> >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> Colby Consulting >>>> >>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>> when you do not believe in it >>>> >>>> On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. >>>>> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the >>>>> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >>>>> complete >>>>> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >>>>> and >>>>> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >>>>> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >>>>> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so >>>>> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >>>>> dealt >>>>> with in a VM. >>>>> >>>>> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >>>>> You >>>>> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >>>>> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >>>>> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net >>>>> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >>>>> December. Wow. Party hearty. >>>>> >>>>> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >>>>> government, >>>>> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >>>>> Lucky >>>>> MoFus. >>>>> >>>>> Arthur >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>>>>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>>>>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>>>>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>>>>> Oracle... >>>>>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com[mailto: >>>>>>> accessd- >>>>>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>>>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>>>>> expensive >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://sqlserverperformance.**wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-** >>>>>>> server-2012- >>>>>>> licensing-and-hardware-**considerations/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>>>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>>>>>> clients and massive >>>>>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> >>>> >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>> >>> >>> >>> From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 12 15:16:44 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:16:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> The only problem with open source: Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be competitive ? Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major build is released.... you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I don't know what is. In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. Is anyone cheering ? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 15:31:03 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:31:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBEE597.4030404@colbyconsulting.com> Of course had I used VMWare as the hypervisor none of this would be a problem... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 15:32:10 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:32:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBEE5DA.1090609@colbyconsulting.com> > Is anyone cheering ? Nope, not me. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 12 15:49:24 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 07:49:24 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com>, , <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBEE9E4.2500.13F7D11C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You mean I can get requisite and timely support from MS if I stay with them? ROTFLMAO. -- Stuart On 12 Nov 2011 at 16:16, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 16:04:08 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 17:04:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: JC: SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to suit this; c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that you have the boot discs for same). At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other Linux db. I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack of DVDs). A. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major > build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 12 16:22:02 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 14:22:02 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: You can buy a 2 Terabyte external HD for $89 or less now...will be significantly faster and more flexible than going the DVD route. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 2:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive JC: SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to suit this; c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that you have the boot discs for same). At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other Linux db. I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack of DVDs). A. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major > build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 19:41:14 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 20:41:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBF203A.5030205@colbyconsulting.com> > You can buy a 2 Terabyte external HD for $89 or less now...will be significantly faster and more flexible than going the DVD route. There's someone out of touch with global warming / floods in Thailand. ;) John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 5:22 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > You can buy a 2 Terabyte external HD for $89 or less now...will be > significantly faster and more flexible than going the DVD route. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 2:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > moreexpensive > > JC: > > SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: > > a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or > 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. > b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to > suit this; > c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; > d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox > (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). > e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that > you have the boot discs for same). > > At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to > x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. > > At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so > in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit > (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, > but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native > boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, > isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. > > One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code > can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered > me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a > single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other > Linux db. > > I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when > I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That > gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack > of DVDs). > > A. > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> The only problem with open source: >> Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be >> competitive ? >> Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major >> build >> is released.... >> you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I >> don't know what is. >> In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that >> mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. >> >> MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty > darn >> good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. >> That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many >> major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of >> hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel >> 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. >> The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. >> Is anyone cheering ? >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 20:16:28 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 21:16:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBF287C.9080101@colbyconsulting.com> In fact I have gotten rid of all my old hardware. When I moved to VMs I no longer needed all those other machines. I just upgraded my VM Server to AM3+ and DDR3 but gave the old AM2+ MB and DDR2 memory to Paul to put to work as a Unraid backup system for his house. So I have no extra hardware to throw at this. I am thinking about moving the VMs down to Azul, the mongo 16 core server. Two out of three VMs would reside there quite happily. The third needs high core speed and the server cores run at 2 ghz. Plus it needs fast SSD and I would need to migrate that into the Azul box as well. It really makes sense to host most of my current VMs there but for that one somewhat high requirement system. I haven't given up on the idea but implementing it is not trivial. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 5:04 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > JC: > > SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: > > a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or > 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. > b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to > suit this; > c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; > d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox > (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). > e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that > you have the boot discs for same). > > At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to > x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. > > At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so > in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit > (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, > but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native > boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, > isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. > > One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code > can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered > me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a > single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other > Linux db. > > I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when > I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That > gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack > of DVDs). > > A. > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> The only problem with open source: >> Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be >> competitive ? >> Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major >> build >> is released.... >> you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I >> don't know what is. >> In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that >> mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. >> >> MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn >> good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. >> That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many >> major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of >> hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel >> 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. >> The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. >> Is anyone cheering ? >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Nov 13 11:49:47 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 21:49:47 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?ore_expensive?= In-Reply-To: References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi Arthur -- > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > Everything works just ducky. > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? Thank you. -- Shamil 13 ?????? 2011, 02:05 ?? Arthur Fuller : > JC: > > SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: > > a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or > 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. > b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to > suit this; > c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; > d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox > (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). > e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that > you have the boot discs for same). > > At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to > x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. > > At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so > in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit > (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, > but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native > boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, > isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. > > One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code > can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered > me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a > single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other > Linux db. > > I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when > I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That > gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack > of DVDs). > > A. > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun Nov 13 12:20:29 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 13:20:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. A. On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Arthur -- > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > Everything works just ducky. > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > From edzedz at comcast.net Sun Nov 13 17:44:05 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:44:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AppHangB1 Error for MsAccess 2003 on Windows-7 64 bit Message-ID: <000001cca25e$21a32fb0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Has anyone seen a error like this and has an idea on how to elimate it ? Thanks. . . ====================================================== Someone in another forum asked it it was an HP or a Dell. The machine in question is an Acer, but the AppHangB1 error seems to be endemic to many Office products besides Ms-Access, regardless of make or model of the hardware. Thus my sense is it something more than something an OEM might have installed on the computer. I compress the MDB and even used the /decompile. None of the tables are linked. Office 2003 been upgraded to SP3. The solution in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2397391 method 2, does mitigate the problem, but doesn't eliminate it. One of the choices from the right click on the MsAccess.exe menu is to run in XP mode. That further reduces the occurrence of the AppHangB1 problem. Also the same has been done to Word and Excel and well as the MDB file. Using Windows-7 64-bit, 4 gigs memory, dual Intel processor, Ms Access 2003 SP3 32-bit - with an large application seems to hang on large queries giving an AppHangB1 error. Page file to 15000 since it is Windows-7 Pro. dbMaxLocksPerFile set to (2^20) or 1048576. Follows is what is seen by the user when the problem occurs: When that happens I tell the customer to just click, allow to continue. ====================================================== Description: A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows. Problem signature: Problem Event Name: AppHangB1 Application Name: MSACCESS.EXE Application Version: 11.0.8166.0 Application Timestamp: 46437912 Hang Signature: 8308 Hang Type: 0 OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48 Locale ID: 1033 Additional Hang Signature 1: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 2: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 3: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Additional Hang Signature 4: 8308 Additional Hang Signature 5: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 6: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 7: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Read our privacy statement online: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=104288&clcid=0x0409 If the online privacy statement is not available, please read our privacy statement offline: C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt ====================================================== From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 08:24:21 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:24:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AppHangB1 Error for MsAccess 2003 on Windows-7 64 bit In-Reply-To: <000001cca25e$21a32fb0$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <000001cca25e$21a32fb0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <003501cca2d9$1ae21990$50a64cb0$@net> Does it occur in Office 2007 or 2010 ? If not, it's time to upgrade. I think the analogy is : You've got an antiquated transmission installed and running in a brand new Ferrari. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 14 10:12:17 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 08:12:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Message-ID: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> Dear Lists: I am considering upgrading a commercial product from Access 2003 to Access 2010 (loathe as I am to develop in 2010 - I guess it's time). Although most of the target market has Office with Access, so I can distribute an mde, some do not so I have always had a run-time version available as an option. I have used the Wise/Sagekey combo for this purpose for may years. (IIRC, the market for Sagekey was motivated in no measure by the poor implementation of run-time deployments in A2000 and A2003.) I have seen references to a run-time deployment in A2010 being much improved. If I can avoid purchasing the Sagekey 2010 script and using Wise I would prefer that - it would make life much simpler. So I am looking for experiences/comments/feedback/benefits/drawbacks, etc., on the effectiveness of the A2010 run-time deployment. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 10:52:54 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:52:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> Message-ID: <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> Sorry, I cannot answer this directly. But one huge issue is: has the run-time version kept-up with all of the fixes to the full version ? Hopefully, MSFT engineers just have 2 separate solutions that share the same code base....and all they have to do is recompile to sync the runtime with the full. I'm not sure of that however. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 14 10:58:37 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 08:58:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> Message-ID: <9DB2A1BF4C9C446DAE7F9F96539AEA68@HAL9007> Mark - same mde with or without Access. I just deliver the run time with all the required dlls and those who have Access get just the mde. The Sagekey script takes care of installing and registering the dlls. (Both have demo and empty back ends, icon, etc.) Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 8:53 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Sorry, I cannot answer this directly. But one huge issue is: has the run-time version kept-up with all of the fixes to the full version ? Hopefully, MSFT engineers just have 2 separate solutions that share the same code base....and all they have to do is recompile to sync the runtime with the full. I'm not sure of that however. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 14 11:20:44 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:20:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> Message-ID: <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> What I have read is that the runtime is the full version with registry entries which lobotomize it. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 11:52 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Sorry, I cannot answer this directly. > But one huge issue is: has the run-time version kept-up with all of the > fixes to the full version ? > > Hopefully, MSFT engineers just have 2 separate solutions that share the same > code base....and all they have to do is recompile to sync the runtime with > the full. I'm not sure of that however. > > > From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Nov 14 11:35:52 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:35:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> Message-ID: <00cb01cca2f3$db540110$91fc0330$@cox.net> Rocky, I think the runtime installer is more robust and would work if you never had to deal with other versions of Office being on the client machine and the various security issues with Windows Vista and 7. What Sagekey brings to the game is having a system that can accommodate whatever the customer has and play nicely with it. The new Sagekey scripts work with MSI and don't require Wise as I understand. We are still using the Access 2000 runtime and scripts. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 8:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Off Topic'; List Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Dear Lists: I am considering upgrading a commercial product from Access 2003 to Access 2010 (loathe as I am to develop in 2010 - I guess it's time). Although most of the target market has Office with Access, so I can distribute an mde, some do not so I have always had a run-time version available as an option. I have used the Wise/Sagekey combo for this purpose for may years. (IIRC, the market for Sagekey was motivated in no measure by the poor implementation of run-time deployments in A2000 and A2003.) I have seen references to a run-time deployment in A2010 being much improved. If I can avoid purchasing the Sagekey 2010 script and using Wise I would prefer that - it would make life much simpler. So I am looking for experiences/comments/feedback/benefits/drawbacks, etc., on the effectiveness of the A2010 run-time deployment. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 12:05:19 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:05:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3D426E72FDC04C50A4CFF0DD867DD9AA@XPS> Always been that way all the way back to day 1. When you use the runtime version, your using the same MSACCESS.EXE and everything else. In fact you can take the full version and start it with the /runtime switch to get a runtime environment. Prior to Windows 95, it wasn't done via registry, but it was still the same .EXE Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 12:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) What I have read is that the runtime is the full version with registry entries which lobotomize it. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 11:52 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Sorry, I cannot answer this directly. > But one huge issue is: has the run-time version kept-up with all of the > fixes to the full version ? > > Hopefully, MSFT engineers just have 2 separate solutions that share the same > code base....and all they have to do is recompile to sync the runtime with > the full. I'm not sure of that however. > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 12:06:49 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:06:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> Message-ID: I would still figure on using the Wise/Sagekey distribution. Keeps things nice and neat. A2010 still goes through the setup and configuration deal if any other version of Access is opened before it. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 11:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Off Topic'; List Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Dear Lists: I am considering upgrading a commercial product from Access 2003 to Access 2010 (loathe as I am to develop in 2010 - I guess it's time). Although most of the target market has Office with Access, so I can distribute an mde, some do not so I have always had a run-time version available as an option. I have used the Wise/Sagekey combo for this purpose for may years. (IIRC, the market for Sagekey was motivated in no measure by the poor implementation of run-time deployments in A2000 and A2003.) I have seen references to a run-time deployment in A2010 being much improved. If I can avoid purchasing the Sagekey 2010 script and using Wise I would prefer that - it would make life much simpler. So I am looking for experiences/comments/feedback/benefits/drawbacks, etc., on the effectiveness of the A2010 run-time deployment. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 14 13:46:05 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:46:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Reports vs SQL Server Reporting Services References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> Message-ID: Over the past two years, I have used Access 2007 to create a variety of reports. The data for these reports comes from a variety of data sources (Access, Excel, flat files, SQL Server, Pervasive Database, Firebird Database, etc). I REALLY like the report writer that is built into Access 2007. Recently the topic of SQL Server Reporting Services has come up. Even though I can access data from SQL Server (outside provider), I currently do not have access to SQL Server Reporting Services. I am curious if anyone here on the AccessD forum has worked with this facility. How does SS Reporting Services stack up against Access 2007 Reports? Is it possible to pull data from various sources into SS Reporting Services, like we can do with Access? Thanks, Brad From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 13:54:58 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:54:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <3D426E72FDC04C50A4CFF0DD867DD9AA@XPS> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> <3D426E72FDC04C50A4CFF0DD867DD9AA@XPS> Message-ID: <002a01cca307$4a6c6ca0$df4545e0$@net> Yes Jim, I understand that....but what if you download the Access 2010 runtime ? Does it always have the version identified with the latest updated full release ? Previously this may not have been a big deal, but with all of the quirks and foibles of 2010, it can be an issue.... i.e. you test with the full version, then deploy to users with the runtime version....and then things stop working. > In fact you can take the full version and start it with the /runtime > switch > to get a runtime environment. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 14 14:51:41 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:51:41 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?ore_expensive?= In-Reply-To: References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: Thank you, Arthur, I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... -- Shamil 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard disks > and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard disk with a > mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the flash-memory sticks: a pair > of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting the new version of Solaris on one > of them. > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point of > running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have with my > setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu VM and also > the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but each instance > opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this approach leads to > less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to > consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > A. > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > > > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 14 20:20:25 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 02:20:25 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Well, Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Thank you, Arthur, I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... -- Shamil 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting > the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point > of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have > with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu > VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but > each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this > approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in > two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > A. > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then > > > running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run > > > various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 14 21:10:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:10:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> Darryl, I want to discuss this. My client just brought up an 8 core AMD server with 16 gigs of ram, just in time to hear about MS deciding that $8K / core is a fair license price. I don't think that $64K for a CPU license is at all fair. Since we were just getting ready to move Access to SQL Server (but haven't yet) I am proposing that we take a hard right to MySQL / MariaDb. I wish I could have persuaded the to take an about face to Linux from an old Windows 2003 license. This is a small company, 50 employees and MS is getting massively expensive for a company this size or smaller. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 9:20 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller: >> My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. >> On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the >> workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard >> disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard >> disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the >> flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting >> the new version of Solaris on one of them. >> >> I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point >> of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have >> with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu >> VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but >> each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this >> approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in >> two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. >> >> A. >> >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: >> >>> Hi Arthur -- >>> >>>> At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then >>>> running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run >>>> various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. >>>> Everything works just ducky. >>>> ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. >>> >>> May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 21:22:19 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:22:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000f01cca345$c8dc1840$5a9448c0$@net> John - I really hear this stuff and wonder if MSFT isn't brain-dead sometimes ;) I doubt seriously that the licensing for a <50 person corp is NOT negotiable. MSFT is just testing the waters with that kind of licensing fee IMHO. > I want to discuss this. My client just brought up an 8 core AMD server > with 16 gigs of ram, just in > time to hear about MS deciding that $8K / core is a fair license price. > I don't think that $64K > for a CPU license is at all fair. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 14 21:47:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:47:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000f01cca345$c8dc1840$5a9448c0$@net> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <000f01cca345$c8dc1840$5a9448c0$@net> Message-ID: <4EC1E0C1.8080908@colbyconsulting.com> > I doubt seriously that the licensing for a<50 person corp is NOT negotiable. MSFT is just testing the waters with that kind of licensing fee IMHO. I would guess so. The problem is that once you dive in to the water you are in for the long haul. Free? Not?? I can run MySQL on Windows 2008 and have a full on server with most of the bells and whistles. the cost is in coming up to speed in a new environment, but once done then it is very low cost. Or I can run MSSQL. They were already balking (unable to afford really) the $8K or so for the SQL Server Standard Edition. But we are about to move a full system, ~200 tables to something. Moving that big a database is going to be time consuming and expensive just in migration costs and testing. Do I move it to SQL Server 2008 Express? That doesn't seem a good bet. Do I move to SQl Server 2008 Standard and get locked in only to have MS really whack them around in the 2011 license costs? Or do I make the break and just go MySQL (or something else)? I am recommending that we just make a clean break right now. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 10:22 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > John - I really hear this stuff and wonder if MSFT isn't brain-dead sometimes > ;) > I doubt seriously that the licensing for a<50 person corp is NOT negotiable. > MSFT is just testing the waters with that kind of licensing fee IMHO. > >> I want to discuss this. My client just brought up an 8 core AMD server >> with 16 gigs of ram, just in >> time to hear about MS deciding that $8K / core is a fair license price. >> I don't think that $64K >> for a CPU license is at all fair. > > From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 14 22:12:16 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:12:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> John: All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case that you ever became completely stuck. It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. ;-) To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have found they had little trouble adjusting. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 7:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive Darryl, I want to discuss this. My client just brought up an 8 core AMD server with 16 gigs of ram, just in time to hear about MS deciding that $8K / core is a fair license price. I don't think that $64K for a CPU license is at all fair. Since we were just getting ready to move Access to SQL Server (but haven't yet) I am proposing that we take a hard right to MySQL / MariaDb. I wish I could have persuaded the to take an about face to Linux from an old Windows 2003 license. This is a small company, 50 employees and MS is getting massively expensive for a company this size or smaller. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 9:20 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller: >> My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. >> On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the >> workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard >> disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard >> disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the >> flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting >> the new version of Solaris on one of them. >> >> I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point >> of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have >> with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu >> VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but >> each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this >> approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in >> two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. >> >> A. >> >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: >> >>> Hi Arthur -- >>> >>>> At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then >>>> running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run >>>> various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. >>>> Everything works just ducky. >>>> ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. >>> >>> May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 14 22:49:12 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:49:12 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC1E0C1.8080908@colbyconsulting.com> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <000f01cca345$c8dc1840$5a9448c0$@net> <4EC1E0C1.8080908@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <6558FCA06665411F8D9EF674900DFC81@creativesystemdesigns.com> I second that thought. The only reason I was holding on to MS was because of their MS Access product, which at the time of its creation had a more than adequate DB, an excellent user interface and had a great reporting engine. It appears now that the product is become more crippled, as MS is no longer willing or able to provide sufficient resources to keep their product stable or able to handle the current data requirements. That is really too bad as MS Access is being allowed to die. MS has had two things going for it. One, a great application platform and two, a great Office application to run on that platform. Microsoft is now being hit from two directions. One, Linux has always been a very stable server product but now the same can be said for their desktops, add to that low cost Open Office products. When we come to database support for Linux this is where you hit the mother lode. There are numerous DBs of every size and complexity and many of them are very mature and have excellent interfaces and companion development applications. Two, Web based applications. That market is just starting but it will not be long before every application you can find on a desktop will be able to be found in a web-based alternative. MS unfortunately, dropped the ball on this. At one point, they held almost 90 percent of the browser market but due to neglect, like in Access, they have lost that market too. (IE use is now below 50 percent and it is dropping at half a percent a month.) I hope this is not depressing anyone but I see the market opening up with so many great opportunities but Microsoft products will just become one of a few supported product lines and not the only one. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 7:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive > I doubt seriously that the licensing for a<50 person corp is NOT negotiable. MSFT is just testing the waters with that kind of licensing fee IMHO. I would guess so. The problem is that once you dive in to the water you are in for the long haul. Free? Not?? I can run MySQL on Windows 2008 and have a full on server with most of the bells and whistles. the cost is in coming up to speed in a new environment, but once done then it is very low cost. Or I can run MSSQL. They were already balking (unable to afford really) the $8K or so for the SQL Server Standard Edition. But we are about to move a full system, ~200 tables to something. Moving that big a database is going to be time consuming and expensive just in migration costs and testing. Do I move it to SQL Server 2008 Express? That doesn't seem a good bet. Do I move to SQl Server 2008 Standard and get locked in only to have MS really whack them around in the 2011 license costs? Or do I make the break and just go MySQL (or something else)? I am recommending that we just make a clean break right now. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 15 01:28:52 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:28:52 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim, John at all, That's is an interesting discussion. But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... .Now take C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > John: > > All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > that you ever became completely stuck. > > It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > ;-) > > To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > > They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > found they had little trouble adjusting. > > Jim > > ) From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 15 01:40:39 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:40:39 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?ore_expensive?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting > > the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point > > of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have > > with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu > > VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but > > each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this > > approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in > > two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > A. > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then > > > > running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run > > > > various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 15 02:50:00 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:50:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> Shamil, Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. - Hans On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Jim, John at all, > > That's is an interesting discussion. > But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > > MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > > I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > > .Now take > > C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > > - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > > And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >> John: >> >> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >> that you ever became completely stuck. >> >> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >> ;-) >> >> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >> >> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >> found they had little trouble adjusting. >> >> Jim >> >> ) > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 15 03:05:22 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 01:05:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: Glad to hear this, Arthur. Your sentiments are just the same as what caused me to jump ship many years ago. What has your experience been so far? From a business point of view, I can see why Microsoft is doing this. They will get immediate returns, as many corporations are dependant on their products and there will be much friction to change, but it is also very short sighted and will only appease shareholders in the short run. When all is said and done, I find that MySQL is a very simple database and quick to get used to. It may lack a lot of bells and whistles that some of the more enterprise databases have, but I don't personally think many (or most) projects really require this. However, I do feel like I should plug PostgreSQL very quickly. It is a _very_ advanced database (dare I say, the only true open source enterprise database). It doesn't get as much attention, due to the fact that it is a much more comprehensive and advanced package, but it can certainly compete toe-to-toe with the heavy weights (and that's probably why it doesn't get nearly as much attention as MySQL does). But, if any of you need any help or advice on using or administrating MySQL (on a Linux platform, I'm afraid), I will be more than happy to help out. Perhaps we should add a new mailing list group just for this? - Hans On 2011-11-12, at 8:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. > See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the > last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a complete > waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, and > I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu > and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs > inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so > the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be dealt > with in a VM. > > So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. You > don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a > semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated > December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net > connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of > December. Wow. Party hearty. > > Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist government, > I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of Lucky > MoFus. > > Arthur > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with Oracle... >> This is so "Balmer-like". >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>> expensive >>> >>> http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012- >>> licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ >>> >>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>> >>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>> clients and massive >>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>> >>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > Cell: 647.710.1314 > > Thirty spokes converge on a hub > but it's the emptiness > that makes a wheel work > -- from the Daodejing > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Nov 15 06:48:47 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 07:48:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <002a01cca307$4a6c6ca0$df4545e0$@net> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> <3D426E72FDC04C50A4CFF0DD867DD9AA@XPS> <002a01cca307$4a6c6ca0$df4545e0$@net> Message-ID: <74A57FE34FF74A79B661F6F45232D5BF@XPS> Ah, I see your point now. I always think of the runtime as something I distribute along with the package wizard. Not something a end-user would download directly on their own and execute. In fact I always thought it used your copy of Access as a base and didn't include Access per say on it's own. The "runtime" was just the package and deployment tools. In looking at the distributions, it looks like it may include a copy of Access (it's 202MB and I doubt the deployment tools alone would be that much), but it doesn't look like it's kept up to date as there is an SP1 for the runtime. Given that, the assumption would be that it's a RTM (Released to Mfg) version and then once installed, it relies on Windows Update to bring it up to snuff. But it could be the SP1 is simply for the deployment tools. I'll try and dig into a little more if I can find some time. I consider myself fortunate that I have done no development with 2010 and very little with 2007, so I haven't had to deal with the issues. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 02:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Yes Jim, I understand that....but what if you download the Access 2010 runtime ? Does it always have the version identified with the latest updated full release ? Previously this may not have been a big deal, but with all of the quirks and foibles of 2010, it can be an issue.... i.e. you test with the full version, then deploy to users with the runtime version....and then things stop working. > In fact you can take the full version and start it with the /runtime > switch > to get a runtime environment. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Nov 15 10:11:10 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:11:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: I started using MySQL several years back, and have since then co-authored several editions of our book on MySQL (Get It Done with MySQL, co-author being Peter Brawley, who frequents our sister site DBA-Hardware and Software Issues). When Oracle bought MySQL I got a little scared, but so far my fears are unjustified. That said, I feel a debt of gratitude to Monty and for that reason have also installed MariaDb, which is a fork off MySQL. Incidentally, for those inclined to trivia, Monty names his products after his daughters. The hardest thing for newcomers to MySQL and MariaDb is the wealth of configuration options. With MS-SQL you can pretty much load and go; and you can with MySQL and MariaDb too, but when performance is the crucial measure, then you have to open the hood and tweak the fuel-injection system, as it were. For anyone thinking of taking the plunge, you can visit www.artfulsoftware.com, which hosts our book and provides several chapters for free download, plus all the source code. In addition to discussing MySQL, we also address communicating with it from PHP, Access, .NET and other languages. Arthur On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:05 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com> wrote: > > Glad to hear this, Arthur. Your sentiments are just the same as what > caused me to jump ship many years ago. What has your experience been so far? > > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 15 10:58:17 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 08:58:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: Arthur, I had a look at a few sample chapters of your book. Looks quite comprehensive. I have to admit, I've been using MySQL this whole time and never really knew its whole history until now. I also like how you have a section on solutions to common queries. Great stuff. I will definitely recommend it to anyone looking for a good resource on MySQL. - Hans On 2011-11-15, at 8:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I started using MySQL several years back, and have since then co-authored > several editions of our book on MySQL (Get It Done with MySQL, co-author > being Peter Brawley, who frequents our sister site DBA-Hardware and > Software Issues). When Oracle bought MySQL I got a little scared, but so > far my fears are unjustified. That said, I feel a debt of gratitude to > Monty and for that reason have also installed MariaDb, which is a fork off > MySQL. Incidentally, for those inclined to trivia, Monty names his products > after his daughters. > > The hardest thing for newcomers to MySQL and MariaDb is the wealth of > configuration options. With MS-SQL you can pretty much load and go; and you > can with MySQL and MariaDb too, but when performance is the crucial > measure, then you have to open the hood and tweak the fuel-injection > system, as it were. > > > For anyone thinking of taking the plunge, you can visit > www.artfulsoftware.com, which hosts our book and provides several chapters > for free download, plus all the source code. In addition to discussing > MySQL, we also address communicating with it from PHP, Access, .NET and > other languages. > > > Arthur > > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:05 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen < > hans.andersen at phulse.com> wrote: > >> >> Glad to hear this, Arthur. Your sentiments are just the same as what >> caused me to jump ship many years ago. What has your experience been so far? >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 15 11:58:02 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:58:02 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> References: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> Message-ID: Hans -- Than you for your remark. Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > > Shamil, > > Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > > - Hans > > On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Jim, John at all, > > > > That's is an interesting discussion. > > But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > > > > MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > > > > I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > > > > .Now take > > > > C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > > > > - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > > > > And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > >> John: > >> > >> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >> that you ever became completely stuck. > >> > >> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >> ;-) > >> > >> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >> > >> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >> > >> Jim > >> > >> ) > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Nov 15 12:29:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:29:58 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Shamil: Gone are the days when everything was minis and mainframes and FORTRAN was king. FORTRAN was the first major language I learned but I have not used it too much lately. Microsoft has held the PC market for at least 10 years of the last 20 but I think we are in a period of transition and the market is spreading out again. If the patent wars do not seriously slow progress, we are on the verge of some very exciting times...similar to the 80s and early 90s. Open source and open standards is where I believe the market is going. You and I may be more familiar with Microsoft's stable of products but developing a decent product in any environment is not easy but it is now no more difficult, than under Linux, it is just different and it all takes considerable time to learn, regardless of the way you go. In the end, I believe, you can be equally as productive. Windows is the only major OS out there that does not have a Linux/Unix core. Linux is the environment of innovation. Virtually, every new product and concept in the computing world has first been created on Linux. Companies like Microsoft, Apple, Oracle, Google etc have been robbing the Linux garden for years and then have been running out and trying to patent it before someone else does or the product developers stamp a GNU and MIT license on it. Unlike Arthur, I will still be using some Microsoft products, as the customers demand it. OTOH, the market is moving away from Desktop type application and more towards Browser type environments...PCs, Smart phones, tablets and so on. In the future, proprietary PC applications are not going to be as important and that will leave Microsoft out of the loop, unless they make major changes in their corporate philosophy. This means, regardless of the effort required, the New Age IT professional is going to have to move more into the Linux world. That, as far as I can see, is a fact, that we all have to come to terms with. Therefore, whether we retire from the computer industry, develop products in a niche market or embrace the new order it does not matter. I believe it is a wonderful time to be in the computer world with so many options...and yes, that does not necessarily mean Microsoft. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 11:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive Jim, John at all, That's is an interesting discussion. But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... .Now take C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... Thank you. -- Shamil From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Nov 15 13:33:40 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:33:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60C0@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I have the following data in a table. I have been able to make reports based on each of the eng area's in the table. I now need to make a report with a total well count for each category (well status) in the table. I have not yet figured how to get a sum for each category in a report or do I need to do a query and base the report on that? Thanks tbl Monthly Well Count with EA Well Status Well_Count Eng Area Active Injector CO2 1 1 Active Injector CO2 3 2 Active Injector CO2 0 3 Active Injector WAG 100 1 Active Injector WAG 122 2 Active Injector WAG 58 3 Active Injector Water 33 1 Active Injector Water 93 2 Active Injector Water 85 3 Inactive Injector 36 1 Inactive Injector 25 2 Inactive Injector 31 3 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 15 13:42:41 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:42:41 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: HI Jim -- > we are on the verge of some very exciting times...similar to the 80s and early 90s. Yes. I'd even say they promise to be even more exciting... Yes, I know that "gone are the days when everything was minis..." - I have just mentioned them to note how huge is the software development productivity growth using nowadays development tools comparing to "good old days..." Still "mythical man-month phenomena" is very actual these days and even becoming more and more actual IMO - and that is Microsoft who is leading/is one of the leaders of the world mass and corporate market of software development productivity tools and programming languages *innovation* nowadays IMO... As for Microsoft business model - everybody knows they often were "missing mainstream uprising technologies" but there were no *any*(?) case in their corporate history they weren't able to "catch the leaving train" and to become a bandwagon - do you believe they will miss it this time?... Let's keep "adults talk" here? :) - I'm asking just one concrete question: - please give me real figures for real life project(s) when Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) of using MS development tools and applications platforms e.g. C#/.NET 4.0 + MS SQL is higher than TCO of using mySQL + ...(?).... provided development teams using that tools on both sides have comparable experience in developing business applications... > I believe it is a wonderful time to be in the computer > world with so many options...and yes, that does not > necessarily mean Microsoft. Yes, but I'm not questioning that. OK? Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. And no, I'm not working for Microsoft :) And I'm not MVP. 15 ?????? 2011, 22:31 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Hi Shamil: > > Gone are the days when everything was minis and mainframes and FORTRAN was > king. FORTRAN was the first major language I learned but I have not used it > too much lately. > > Microsoft has held the PC market for at least 10 years of the last 20 but I > think we are in a period of transition and the market is spreading out > again. If the patent wars do not seriously slow progress, we are on the > verge of some very exciting times...similar to the 80s and early 90s. > > Open source and open standards is where I believe the market is going. You > and I may be more familiar with Microsoft's stable of products but > developing a decent product in any environment is not easy but it is now no > more difficult, than under Linux, it is just different and it all takes > considerable time to learn, regardless of the way you go. In the end, I > believe, you can be equally as productive. > > Windows is the only major OS out there that does not have a Linux/Unix core. > > Linux is the environment of innovation. Virtually, every new product and > concept in the computing world has first been created on Linux. Companies > like Microsoft, Apple, Oracle, Google etc have been robbing the Linux garden > for years and then have been running out and trying to patent it before > someone else does or the product developers stamp a GNU and MIT license on > it. > > Unlike Arthur, I will still be using some Microsoft products, as the > customers demand it. OTOH, the market is moving away from Desktop type > application and more towards Browser type environments...PCs, Smart phones, > tablets and so on. In the future, proprietary PC applications are not going > to be as important and that will leave Microsoft out of the loop, unless > they make major changes in their corporate philosophy. > > This means, regardless of the effort required, the New Age IT professional > is going to have to move more into the Linux world. That, as far as I can > see, is a fact, that we all have to come to terms with. Therefore, whether > we retire from the computer industry, develop products in a niche market or > embrace the new order it does not matter. > > I believe it is a wonderful time to be in the computer world with so many > options...and yes, that does not necessarily mean Microsoft. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 11:29 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > moreexpensive > > Jim, John at all, > > That's is an interesting discussion. > But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > > MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > > I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have > worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, > command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and > PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or > network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data > definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how > much time all that development takes... > > .Now take > > C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > > - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux > development and support costs? > > And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards > HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and > support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom > business applications... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Tue Nov 15 13:50:18 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:50:18 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60C0@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60C0@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <005801cca3cf$cd6cf750$6846e5f0$@comcast.net> Hi Chester, If, on this report, you only want to display the count of wells, the I would probably write a query to use as the recordsouce of the report. Like this: SELECT tblWells.EngArea, Sum(tblWells.WellCount) AS [Well Count] FROM tblWells GROUP BY tblWells.EngArea; If you also need to display individual data on the report, then use the grouping and sum features of the report. Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report I have the following data in a table. I have been able to make reports based on each of the eng area's in the table. I now need to make a report with a total well count for each category (well status) in the table. I have not yet figured how to get a sum for each category in a report or do I need to do a query and base the report on that? Thanks tbl Monthly Well Count with EA Well Status Well_Count Eng Area Active Injector CO2 1 1 Active Injector CO2 3 2 Active Injector CO2 0 3 Active Injector WAG 100 1 Active Injector WAG 122 2 Active Injector WAG 58 3 Active Injector Water 33 1 Active Injector Water 93 2 Active Injector Water 85 3 Inactive Injector 36 1 Inactive Injector 25 2 Inactive Injector 31 3 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Nov 15 14:37:19 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:37:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report In-Reply-To: <005801cca3cf$cd6cf750$6846e5f0$@comcast.net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60C0@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <005801cca3cf$cd6cf750$6846e5f0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60E5@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Of course right after my posting it occurred to me how to do this in the report. Use this as the control source modifying as necessary for various text boxes. =DSum("[Well_Count]","tbl Monthly Well Count with EA","[Well Status] ='Active Injector CO2' ") -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Summerize data for report Hi Chester, If, on this report, you only want to display the count of wells, the I would probably write a query to use as the recordsouce of the report. Like this: SELECT tblWells.EngArea, Sum(tblWells.WellCount) AS [Well Count] FROM tblWells GROUP BY tblWells.EngArea; If you also need to display individual data on the report, then use the grouping and sum features of the report. Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report I have the following data in a table. I have been able to make reports based on each of the eng area's in the table. I now need to make a report with a total well count for each category (well status) in the table. I have not yet figured how to get a sum for each category in a report or do I need to do a query and base the report on that? Thanks tbl Monthly Well Count with EA Well Status Well_Count Eng Area Active Injector CO2 1 1 Active Injector CO2 3 2 Active Injector CO2 0 3 Active Injector WAG 100 1 Active Injector WAG 122 2 Active Injector WAG 58 3 Active Injector Water 33 1 Active Injector Water 93 2 Active Injector Water 85 3 Inactive Injector 36 1 Inactive Injector 25 2 Inactive Injector 31 3 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Nov 15 15:37:17 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:37:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> As I had indicated before, I think support is EVERYTHING. Example: After 2 successful years of running Firefox as my primary browser, I must now uninstall it. Why ?: Since the 7.01 release and now with the latest and greatest 8.0 release, It is no longer compatible with Adobe Distiller 9.0 I am now unable to print to PDF from a webpage. I LOVE TO DO THIS !!! And I love Acrobat - Professional. On the Mozilla tech forums, the responses I got to the problem went from the RIDICULOUS (Use Foxit) to the SUBLIME (get a MAC ). Neither were solutions even worthy of closer consideration. There you have it: hit the proverbial "wall" with open source and you're dead-in-the-water. I'm back with IE 8. Works great with Distiller. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 15 16:16:02 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:16:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> References: , , <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> Message-ID: <4EC2E4A2.7175.23835183@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I have no problems with printing to the open source PDFCreator with the latest FF. -- Stuart On 15 Nov 2011 at 16:37, Mark Simms wrote: > As I had indicated before, I think support is EVERYTHING. > Example: After 2 successful years of running Firefox as my primary browser, > I must now uninstall it. Why ?: > Since the 7.01 release and now with the latest and greatest 8.0 release, > It is no longer compatible with Adobe Distiller 9.0 > I am now unable to print to PDF from a webpage. I LOVE TO DO THIS !!! And I > love Acrobat - Professional. > > On the Mozilla tech forums, the responses I got to the problem went from the > RIDICULOUS (Use Foxit) to the SUBLIME (get a MAC ). Neither were solutions > even worthy of closer consideration. > > There you have it: hit the proverbial "wall" with open source and you're > dead-in-the-water. > I'm back with IE 8. Works great with Distiller. > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 15 16:38:00 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:38:00 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hi Shamil, Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. Now. MySQL - The Process so far: Looked at the manual: << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> Download the Free community edition: Easy << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> Install: Fairly easy Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> Or << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. Check data types << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Darryl -- I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > A. > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 15 16:50:47 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:50:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> Message-ID: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> Hi Shamil, I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). - Hans On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hans -- > > Than you for your remark. > > Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > > .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > > I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > > My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> >> Shamil, >> >> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >> >> - Hans >> >> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >>> Jim, John at all, >>> >>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>> >>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>> >>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>> >>> .Now take >>> >>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>> >>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>> >>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >>>> John: >>>> >>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>> >>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>> ;-) >>>> >>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>> >>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> ) >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 15 16:59:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:59:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: , , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4EC2EEBE.26497.23AACF6A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I just install MySQL by installing WAMPServer ( basically single click). Then I point my browser at http://localhost/phpMyAdmin for a GUI. -- Stuart On 15 Nov 2011 at 22:38, Darryl Collins wrote: > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL > Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad > and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get > started. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> > > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this > Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 15 2011, 06:22 Darryl Collins : > > Well, > > > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > > > Cheers > > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > > more expensive > > > > Thank you, Arthur, > > > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 13 2011, 22:21 Arthur Fuller : > > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > > > A. > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 15 16:59:30 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:59:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EC2EED2.1090709@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, In fact I believe that seat licensing is very reasonable with Microsoft. AFAICT the per seat is about $200 for Windows AND SQL Server, and that is a onc time cost, or probably a once every 4 or 5 years if they force you to get new CALs on some new revision of the software. in my opinion, that is just a reasonable cost for licensing a SQl Server. It does have to be budgeted for however. For example for this new server they need around 40 CALs which is $8K plus some fixed "server license" fees. That is a lump sum check that has to be written. If they just put that in the bank over 4 or 5 years they would be fine. I am not convinced that TCO as you describe it is huge on Linux / MySQL. I have a linux server that sits in the corner and runs. My TCO for that was $120 plus an old server system. If Access can talk through ODBC to MySQL then a conversion to MySQL would be reasonably priced. Yes there is a learning curve but still there are no or low recurring fees. Can .Net on client machines run against MySQL? I would bet so. Can I run VMs on Linux for things that have to run on Windows? What has to run on Windows? It isn't dead simple but you do get off the endless licensing treadmill with Microsoft. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/15/2011 12:58 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hans -- > > Than you for your remark. > > Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > > .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > > I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > > My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 15 17:13:30 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:13:30 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> References: <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D996D@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> And IE8 and certainly IE9 are rather nice to use as well. MS have finally decided to get a bit more serious about the browser it seems. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 8:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive As I had indicated before, I think support is EVERYTHING. Example: After 2 successful years of running Firefox as my primary browser, I must now uninstall it. Why ?: Since the 7.01 release and now with the latest and greatest 8.0 release, It is no longer compatible with Adobe Distiller 9.0 I am now unable to print to PDF from a webpage. I LOVE TO DO THIS !!! And I love Acrobat - Professional. On the Mozilla tech forums, the responses I got to the problem went from the RIDICULOUS (Use Foxit) to the SUBLIME (get a MAC ). Neither were solutions even worthy of closer consideration. There you have it: hit the proverbial "wall" with open source and you're dead-in-the-water. I'm back with IE 8. Works great with Distiller. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 15 17:29:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 18:29:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4EC2F5C2.4060100@colbyconsulting.com> >Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. But to my knowledge the size limit is for a database. So put the table itself in one database and the work stuff in another database. SQL Server (even express) can handle more than a single database and can easily use tables in one database as part of a query in another database. I am not discounting the limitations, just discussing that there is a SQL Server solution in this particular example. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/15/2011 5:38 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > Hi Shamil, > > Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. > > However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. > > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. > > Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> > > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this > Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins: >> Well, >> >> Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. >> >> Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. >> >> See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >> Salakhetdinov Shamil >> Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY >> more expensive >> >> Thank you, Arthur, >> >> I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. >> I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... >> >> -- Shamil >> >> 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller: >>> My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. >>> On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the >>> workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard >>> disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard >>> disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the >>> flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering >>> mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. >>> >>> I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the >>> point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem >>> that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. >>> Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome >>> as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the >>> particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and >>> since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. >>> >>> A. >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: >>> >>>> Hi Arthur -- >>>> >>>>> At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and >>>>> then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I >>>>> run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. >>>>> Everything works just ducky. >>>>> ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. >>>> >>>> May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 15 17:35:16 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:35:16 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EC2F5C2.4060100@colbyconsulting.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC2F5C2.4060100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D99D4@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yep, that is pretty much what I ended up doing - indeed I ended up using several databases. I haven't given up on SQL Server Express, I just want to try something else and see if it behaves any better or suit my needs better. So far it has been promising. I am fairly lucky here in that the SQL server instance is just for me. I don't have to spend any time on security, user interfaces etc. I just need it to mash data as effectively as possible. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 10:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive >Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. But to my knowledge the size limit is for a database. So put the table itself in one database and the work stuff in another database. SQL Server (even express) can handle more than a single database and can easily use tables in one database as part of a query in another database. I am not discounting the limitations, just discussing that there is a SQL Server solution in this particular example. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/15/2011 5:38 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > Hi Shamil, > > Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. > > However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. > > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. > > Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy << > http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << > http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Defau > lt.aspx>> > > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << > http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more > 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins: >> Well, >> >> Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. >> >> Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. >> >> See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >> Salakhetdinov Shamil >> Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY >> more expensive >> >> Thank you, Arthur, >> >> I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. >> I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... >> >> -- Shamil >> >> 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller: >>> My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. >>> On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the >>> workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard >>> disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard >>> disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the >>> flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering >>> mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. >>> >>> I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the >>> point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem >>> that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. >>> Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome >>> as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the >>> particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and >>> since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. >>> >>> A. >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: >>> >>>> Hi Arthur -- >>>> >>>>> At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then >>>>> running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run >>>>> various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. >>>>> Everything works just ducky. >>>>> ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. >>>> >>>> May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Tue Nov 15 20:19:17 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 20:19:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <007b01cca406$248c5f40$6da51dc0$@comcast.net> Darryl - I don't remember you mentioning which version of SQL Express you're using. SQL Express 2008 R2 has a 10 Gb limit. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 4:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Shamil, Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. Now. MySQL - The Process so far: Looked at the manual: << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> Download the Free community edition: Easy << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> Install: Fairly easy Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> Or << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. Check data types << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Darryl -- I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > A. > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 15 20:38:09 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 02:38:09 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <007b01cca406$248c5f40$6da51dc0$@comcast.net> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <007b01cca406$248c5f40$6da51dc0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DA327@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yep, That is the one I am using - 10 GB is the limit. But the 86 million rows of data are kissing the limit. 8 Access DB's pushed into a single SQL Server table. There are not that many columns of data (maybe 10 columns) in each table. Well, the one I am using to be precise is SQL Server Denali CTP3 - Express version of course. To give you an approximate idea. The 8 MS Access databases - each only contain a single table of data, no code, and a single query to ensure each table is exported the same are sized in KB (when compacted) as 1,080,608 926,160 1,343,040 998,736 1,452,932 1,300,500 1,291,344 1,287,232 ------------------ 9,680,552 Total KB ------------------ So pretty darn squeezy when pushed into a 10 GB limit :) Given that I need to add one column via the query to each table on upload you can start to see my problem. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 1:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Darryl - I don't remember you mentioning which version of SQL Express you're using. SQL Express 2008 R2 has a 10 Gb limit. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 4:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Shamil, Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. Now. MySQL - The Process so far: Looked at the manual: << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> Download the Free community edition: Easy << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> Install: Fairly easy Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> Or << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. Check data types << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Darryl -- I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > A. > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Tue Nov 15 20:49:00 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:49:00 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Reports vs SQL Server Reporting Services In-Reply-To: References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <04b001cca40a$4c834000$e589c000$@activebilling.com.au> Hey Brad. We use RepServices here at the office (SQL2005 Back ends) Generally speaking - it's a pretty good tool, though there are display issues on the browser display of final reports if you are not using IE (Something to do with frames inside frames) A real PITA Anyway back to the designer - If I tell the design tool (Vis Studio) I want a new DataSource I get 7 'types' out of the box. This includes SQL Server (Of course) and an OLE DB option , ODBC, XML and ORACLE (These are out of the box nothing else installed) We only ever connect our reports sitting over SQL but I'm sure you could do more with it, from that point of view, than we are - Also the learning curve is bugger all if you already know VB and VBA syntax. Good Luck Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Reports vs SQL Server Reporting Services Over the past two years, I have used Access 2007 to create a variety of reports. The data for these reports comes from a variety of data sources (Access, Excel, flat files, SQL Server, Pervasive Database, Firebird Database, etc). I REALLY like the report writer that is built into Access 2007. Recently the topic of SQL Server Reporting Services has come up. Even though I can access data from SQL Server (outside provider), I currently do not have access to SQL Server Reporting Services. I am curious if anyone here on the AccessD forum has worked with this facility. How does SS Reporting Services stack up against Access 2007 Reports? Is it possible to pull data from various sources into SS Reporting Services, like we can do with Access? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Nov 16 02:34:36 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:34:36 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?ore_expensive?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. But you didn't account Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) which includes your project development and support costs, did you? I''m not asking for concrete figures but for evaluation based on your or others past experiences. Once again: TCO - C#/.NET 4.0 (VS2010) vs. mySQL + ...(?) .... Did you try to split your MS SQL Express db into several parts? Would that splitting introduce too much complexity to your business application development? How do you process your large data volumes? .... Instead of "blindly switching to mySQL" wouldn't it be better first try to evaluate long term costs? .... Darryl, I'm not trying to insult you or others with my questions here - these are more questions to myself how inexpensive is that "mySQL free cheese" in long run? Anybody tried to calculate that? Yes, I know many companies do not have that much of free money to pay to MS SQL licences up-front but with proper development plan/road-map there should be a way to make that licences affordable for them in long run - I mean if that companies have a profitable business and your development makes this business even more profitable then MS SQL should be a better choice provided your back-end isn't just a "dumb" relational db but needs rich (T)-SQL and many other features you're getting with MS SQL "out-of-the-box"... Thank you. -- Shamil 16 ?????? 2011, 02:39 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Hi Shamil, > > Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. > > However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. > > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. > > Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this > Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Well, > > > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > > > Cheers > > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > > more expensive > > > > Thank you, Arthur, > > > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > > > A. > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Nov 16 02:51:20 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:51:20 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> Message-ID: Hi Hans -- Thank you for your reply. But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... Thank you. -- Shamil 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > > Hi Shamil, > > I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. > > Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. > > That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. > > Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. > > Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. > > Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. > > There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). > > - Hans > > On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hans -- > > > > Than you for your remark. > > > > Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > > > > .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > > > > I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > > > > My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >> > >> > >> Shamil, > >> > >> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > >> > >> - Hans > >> > >> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> > >>> Jim, John at all, > >>> > >>> That's is an interesting discussion. > >>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > >>> > >>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > >>> > >>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > >>> > >>> .Now take > >>> > >>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > >>> > >>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > >>> > >>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >>> > >>> > >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > >>>> John: > >>>> > >>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >>>> that you ever became completely stuck. > >>>> > >>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >>>> ;-) > >>>> > >>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >>>> > >>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >>>> > >>>> Jim > >>>> > >>>> ) > >>> > >>> -- > >>> AccessD mailing list > >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Nov 16 03:06:15 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:06:15 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <4EC2EED2.1090709@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC2EED2.1090709@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John -- Yes, AFAIHH .NET client machines can run against mySQL. I can be wrong but aren't you just trying to use "raw modern multi-core processors power " to crunch relational db indexes and joins and for that you need to use all the processor's cores?, What if you'd try to use just one core and a lot of cheap memory for MS SQL db communication and use other cores to your custom application data processing/crunching and you'll write some custom C#/.NET coding for that - would that save your customers from paying high MS SQL per-core license costs *right now*? And when they get good profit from your working solutions then they can afford some loans from banks and afford per-core MS SQL licensing - and by that time you'll get them developed even more better and more profitable custom solutions? > It isn't dead simple but you do get off the endless licensing treadmill with Microsoft. John, but "licensing treadmill" or "custom software development and support treadmill" is what drives your, mine and other companies hi-tech businesses, isn't it? Thank you. -- Shamil 16 ?????? 2011, 03:01 ?? jwcolby : > Shamil, > > In fact I believe that seat licensing is very reasonable with Microsoft. AFAICT the per seat is > about $200 for Windows AND SQL Server, and that is a onc time cost, or probably a once every 4 or 5 > years if they force you to get new CALs on some new revision of the software. > > in my opinion, that is just a reasonable cost for licensing a SQl Server. It does have to be > budgeted for however. For example for this new server they need around 40 CALs which is $8K plus > some fixed "server license" fees. That is a lump sum check that has to be written. If they just > put that in the bank over 4 or 5 years they would be fine. > > I am not convinced that TCO as you describe it is huge on Linux / MySQL. I have a linux server that > sits in the corner and runs. My TCO for that was $120 plus an old server system. If Access can > talk through ODBC to MySQL then a conversion to MySQL would be reasonably priced. Yes there is a > learning curve but still there are no or low recurring fees. Can .Net on client machines run > against MySQL? I would bet so. Can I run VMs on Linux for things that have to run on Windows? > What has to run on Windows? > > It isn't dead simple but you do get off the endless licensing treadmill with Microsoft. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/15/2011 12:58 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hans -- > > > > Than you for your remark. > > > > Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > > > > .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > > > > I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > > > > My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Nov 16 09:11:12 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:11:12 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] IT Position in Minneapolis/St.Paul Message-ID: <002b01cca471$fa687070$ef395150$@comcast.net> I just talked with one of my customers this morning, and they are looking for a person to be an 'on call' IT person. This a 100 person manufacturing firm in Shoreview. If you're interested, please contact me directly. Thanks! Dan From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 16 11:16:13 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:16:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Shamil: The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard configuration. If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches up.) I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic configuration of both. This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user can get use to using either as they are very similar. I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic configuration of both. I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or in both and how much the initial products cost. Some other points to consider: 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent Windows products. 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. Jim From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 16 11:44:52 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:44:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> Message-ID: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Hi Shamil, > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: 1. They really need a certain feature 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > Thank you for your reply. > > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > > "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > > "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> >> Hi Shamil, >> >> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. >> >> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. >> >> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. >> >> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. >> >> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. >> >> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. >> >> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). >> >> - Hans >> >> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >>> Hans -- >>> >>> Than you for your remark. >>> >>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) >>> >>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... >>> >>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? >>> >>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >>>> >>>> >>>> Shamil, >>>> >>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >>>> >>>> - Hans >>>> >>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jim, John at all, >>>>> >>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>>>> >>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>>>> >>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>>>> >>>>> .Now take >>>>> >>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>>>> >>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>>>> >>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >>>>>> John: >>>>>> >>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>>>> ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>>>> >>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jim >>>>>> >>>>>> ) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 16 12:01:03 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:01:03 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3CCC7D71-E607-4C3B-943B-A4D332B4B616@phulse.com> Jim, This is very good advice. Nicely written. - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 9:16 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Shamil: > > The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had > no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. > Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties > when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it > sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard > configuration. > > If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx > they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is > also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux > desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and > capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has > the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could > host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches > up.) > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All > will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, > music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and > on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have > regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user > can get use to using either as they are very similar. > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is > relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak > it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of > these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL > can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be > tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and > investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? > > If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there > are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever > need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows > or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to > help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. > > Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. > The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or > in both and how much the initial products cost. > > Some other points to consider: > 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no > intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if > left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be > rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it > is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. > 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) > 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary > products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 > contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent > Windows products. > 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. > > Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They > are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but > OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the > next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 16 12:12:38 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:12:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: <6D4BC8D1A20546D9A663A6BCD03FCDE3@creativesystemdesigns.com> Good one Hans...well written. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 9:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive Hi Shamil, > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions: If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: 1. They really need a certain feature 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > Thank you for your reply. > > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > > "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > > "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> >> Hi Shamil, >> >> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. >> >> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. >> >> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. >> >> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. >> >> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. >> >> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. >> >> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). >> >> - Hans >> >> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >>> Hans -- >>> >>> Than you for your remark. >>> >>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) >>> >>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... >>> >>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? >>> >>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >>>> >>>> >>>> Shamil, >>>> >>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >>>> >>>> - Hans >>>> >>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jim, John at all, >>>>> >>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>>>> >>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>>>> >>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>>>> >>>>> .Now take >>>>> >>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>>>> >>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>>>> >>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >>>>>> John: >>>>>> >>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>>>> ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>>>> >>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jim >>>>>> >>>>>> ) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 12:28:42 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:28:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EC400DA.7020707@colbyconsulting.com> > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. I think this is particularly huge. I know I am familiar with MSSQL. However it was a few short years ago that I was cursing MSSQL for its obtuseness. Now that I "know it" I do not want to switch. But intellectually I think that becoming comfortable with MySQL is a necessity (for me). I work in small businesses where MS licensing is an issue for many reasons including complexity and cost. Having a free, open and powerful alternative can only be a good thing (for me). John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 12:44 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > > Hi Shamil, > >> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. > > In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > > >> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > > >> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) > > You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. > > Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > > >> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? > > If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. > > > If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. > > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > > > - Hans From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 12:33:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:33:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about "needing to reboot after updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows Server 2008 and SQL Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL variant. Then I will truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much so as any system can expect. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Shamil: > > The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had > no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. > Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties > when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it > sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard > configuration. > > If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx > they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is > also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux > desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and > capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has > the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could > host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches > up.) > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All > will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, > music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and > on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have > regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user > can get use to using either as they are very similar. > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is > relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak > it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of > these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL > can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be > tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and > investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? > > If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there > are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever > need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows > or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to > help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. > > Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. > The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or > in both and how much the initial products cost. > > Some other points to consider: > 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no > intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if > left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be > rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it > is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. > 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) > 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary > products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 > contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent > Windows products. > 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. > > Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They > are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but > OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the > next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. > > Jim > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 16 13:35:46 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:35:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, I've never seen a Linux server to have its stability degrade over time, unless there was a serious problem going on (like hardware failure). I have known Windows servers to have stability problems, but more often than not, this is usually due to poor quality drivers and/or the use of consumer grade hardware or software with memory leaks. But, unless you know exactly what you are doing, you will still find that you need to reboot Linux servers on occasions after a software update if there is a serious kernel patch. It doesn't happen as often as on Windows, but we used to have a very neat tool called Ksplice, which can patch a running kernel on the fly. Unfortunately, Oracle bought the company that ran that product and immediately dropped support for other distros other than its own (as if I really needed another reason to despise Oracle). :p I haven't checked what our uptimes are on at my (Debian) server farm. I'll have a look in a bit. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-16, at 10:33 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. > > I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about "needing to reboot after updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows Server 2008 and SQL Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. > > One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL variant. Then I will truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much so as any system can expect. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Shamil: >> >> The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had >> no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. >> Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties >> when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it >> sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard >> configuration. >> >> If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx >> they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is >> also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux >> desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and >> capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has >> the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could >> host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches >> up.) >> >> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >> configuration of both. >> >> This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All >> will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, >> music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and >> on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have >> regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user >> can get use to using either as they are very similar. >> >> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >> configuration of both. >> >> I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is >> relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak >> it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of >> these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL >> can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be >> tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and >> investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? >> >> If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there >> are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever >> need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows >> or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to >> help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. >> >> Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. >> The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or >> in both and how much the initial products cost. >> >> Some other points to consider: >> 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no >> intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if >> left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be >> rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it >> is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. >> 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) >> 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary >> products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 >> contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent >> Windows products. >> 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. >> >> Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They >> are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but >> OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the >> next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. >> >> Jim >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Wed Nov 16 13:40:47 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:40:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: Folks, I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). I have not been able to find a way to do this. Thanks for your help and advice. Sincerely, Brad From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 16 15:06:14 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:06:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC400DA.7020707@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com>, <4EC400DA.7020707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EC425C6.5389.2869CA06@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> As I recall, it was more a case of you were cursing everyone on the dba-SQLServer list for their obtuseness when answering your questions. :-) -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:28, jwcolby wrote: > I think this is particularly huge. I know I am familiar with MSSQL. However it was a few short > years ago that I was cursing MSSQL for its obtuseness. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 16 15:13:56 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:13:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4EC42794.18550.2870D80A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > Folks, > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > Sincerely, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 15:23:00 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:23:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Mushkin 120 gb SATA III Message-ID: <4EC429B4.3090605@colbyconsulting.com> A great price on these for those in the USA. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008120%20600038519%20600038484&IsNodeId=1&name=120GB -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Nov 16 15:31:35 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:31:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857A@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Would a print screen do if you could send the key strokes Martin Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Stuart McLachlan Sent: 16/11/2011 21:15 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > Folks, > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > Sincerely, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Nov 16 15:33:53 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:33:53 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857C@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Or See this thread http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233108 Martin Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Stuart McLachlan Sent: 16/11/2011 21:15 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > Folks, > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > Sincerely, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 15:40:31 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:40:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC425C6.5389.2869CA06@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com>, <4EC400DA.7020707@colbyconsulting.com> <4EC425C6.5389.2869CA06@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EC42DCF.5080401@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, that too. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 4:06 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > As I recall, it was more a case of you were cursing everyone on the dba-SQLServer list for > their obtuseness when answering your questions. :-) > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 16 16:15:12 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:15:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857C@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857C@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4EC435F0.21723.28A8EFA1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Well blow me down, who'd a thunk it? Worksheets("Sheet1").Range("A1:D4").CopyPicture xlScreen, xlBitmap Once you have the image on the clipboard, you can use the example OleCreatePictureIndirect() code directly in Access to do it. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 21:33, Martin Reid wrote: > Or > > See this thread > > http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233108 > > Martin > > Sent from my Windows Phone > ________________________________ > From: Stuart McLachlan > Sent: 16/11/2011 21:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File > > I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows > Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is > essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. > > -- > Stuart > > On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > > > Folks, > > > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > > > Sincerely, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 16 16:18:09 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:18:09 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John: One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but through some MS Update that setting was modified. I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data that I knew anything was wrong. >From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about "needing to reboot after updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows Server 2008 and SQL Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL variant. Then I will truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much so as any system can expect. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Shamil: > > The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had > no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. > Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties > when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it > sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard > configuration. > > If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx > they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is > also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux > desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and > capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has > the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could > host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches > up.) > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All > will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, > music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and > on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have > regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user > can get use to using either as they are very similar. > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is > relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak > it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of > these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL > can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be > tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and > investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? > > If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there > are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever > need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows > or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to > help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. > > Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. > The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or > in both and how much the initial products cost. > > Some other points to consider: > 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no > intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if > left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be > rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it > is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. > 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) > 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary > products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 > contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent > Windows products. > 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. > > Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They > are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but > OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the > next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. > > Jim > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 16 17:02:35 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 23:02:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DA59B@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> No probs Shamil, It is always good to explore these issues. This role I am in now is a little unique compared to other positions I have had. In the past I have usually been involved with building rock solid user solutions that are rolled out over a business. They have to look good, function well and be nice and strong and stable as the user are just users who do what they do. They generally also follow a structured business workflow or plan and are fairly constrained on their input and outputs. If I have had the advantage of working with SQL Server I would usually get access to a big enterprise setup which was managed by dedicated DBA's with all the bells and whistles. There were always rules about what could and couldn't be done etc. In this sort of environment I can see your point about TCO and economies of scale and maintenance etc. Now in this role, I work with a small company in a team of 4 other guys and we manipulate large volumes of data which are project specific. Each project is largely unique so whilst we have a sort of framework we use, there is a lot of 'start from scratch' stuff in the early days when we get the data from the clients. In this role there is no need for nice GUI's for the users, or functionality or anything like. It is mostly pure data and brute force processing power to get the clients data into a useable framework for our processes. In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access. That is what I love about this role. It really is very different and hands on - without any hassle of having to spend hours and hours building a functional UI or even a functional DB. I mean we do built GUI for us, but they don't have to be rock solid and stable as they guys here are all data nerds like me and generally know there way around this stuff. One of the best and most interesting roles I have ever had. Now, based on this, I am probably not the best person to ask. One day we may have a dedicated and central server for processing data, but right now all of our heavy duty processing machines (about 25 of them) run our propriety software that actually produces the results for the clients. Think of what we do as drive the heavy bulldozers and trucks that mash the data and prepare it for processing. Hope that makes sense. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 7:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. But you didn't account Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) which includes your project development and support costs, did you? I''m not asking for concrete figures but for evaluation based on your or others past experiences. Once again: TCO - C#/.NET 4.0 (VS2010) vs. mySQL + ...(?) .... Did you try to split your MS SQL Express db into several parts? Would that splitting introduce too much complexity to your business application development? How do you process your large data volumes? .... Instead of "blindly switching to mySQL" wouldn't it be better first try to evaluate long term costs? .... Darryl, I'm not trying to insult you or others with my questions here - these are more questions to myself how inexpensive is that "mySQL free cheese" in long run? Anybody tried to calculate that? Yes, I know many companies do not have that much of free money to pay to MS SQL licences up-front but with proper development plan/road-map there should be a way to make that licences affordable for them in long run - I mean if that companies have a profitable business and your development makes this business even more profitable then MS SQL should be a better choice provided your back-end isn't just a "dumb" relational db but needs rich (T)-SQL and many other features you're getting with MS SQL "out-of-the-box"... Thank you. -- Shamil 16 ?????? 2011, 02:39 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Hi Shamil, > > Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. > > However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. > > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. > > Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy << > http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << > http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Defau > lt.aspx>> > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << > http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more > 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Well, > > > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > > > Cheers > > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > > more expensive > > > > Thank you, Arthur, > > > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, > > > the workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few > > > hard disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a > > > USB hard disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot > > > the flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run > > > Chrome as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > > > A. > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 17:29:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:29:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EC4474F.8090208@colbyconsulting.com> I absolutely agree. MS has a lot of nerve assuming that they can reboot any server without permission. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 5:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > >> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:33 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > moreexpensive > > >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone > for too long it will > start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. > > I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about > "needing to reboot after > updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows > Server 2008 and SQL > Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. > > One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL > variant. Then I will > truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much > so as any system can expect. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Shamil: >> >> The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux > had >> no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. >> Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late > nineties >> when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it >> sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard >> configuration. >> >> If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx >> they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this > is >> also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux >> desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit > and >> capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS > has >> the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could >> host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware > catches >> up.) >> >> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >> configuration of both. >> >> This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All >> will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, >> music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products > and >> on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have >> regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any > user >> can get use to using either as they are very similar. >> >> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >> configuration of both. >> >> I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it > is >> relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak >> it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) > of >> these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL >> can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be >> tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training > and >> investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? >> >> If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there >> are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever >> need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows >> or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to >> help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. >> >> Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. >> The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either > or >> in both and how much the initial products cost. >> >> Some other points to consider: >> 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no >> intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and > if >> left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be >> rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least > it >> is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. >> 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) >> 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary >> products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 >> contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent >> Windows products. >> 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. >> >> Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. > They >> are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but >> OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for > the >> next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. >> >> Jim >> From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 16 17:40:15 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:40:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC4474F.8090208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> <4EC4474F.8090208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <2E25C8B2-B90C-40E7-A8F3-04858F2E96A8@phulse.com> Jim, Wow, it happened again, eh? - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 3:29 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I absolutely agree. MS has a lot of nerve assuming that they can reboot any server without permission. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/16/2011 5:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi John: >> >> One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server >> 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but >> through some MS Update that setting was modified. >> >> I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type >> request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a >> MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. >> It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data >> that I knew anything was wrong. >> >>> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and >> it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. >> >> Jim >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:33 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY >> moreexpensive >> >> >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone >> for too long it will >> start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. >> >> I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about >> "needing to reboot after >> updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows >> Server 2008 and SQL >> Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. >> >> One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL >> variant. Then I will >> truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much >> so as any system can expect. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Hi Shamil: >>> >>> The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux >> had >>> no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. >>> Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late >> nineties >>> when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it >>> sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard >>> configuration. >>> >>> If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx >>> they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this >> is >>> also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux >>> desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit >> and >>> capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS >> has >>> the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could >>> host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware >> catches >>> up.) >>> >>> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >>> configuration of both. >>> >>> This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All >>> will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, >>> music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products >> and >>> on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have >>> regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any >> user >>> can get use to using either as they are very similar. >>> >>> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >>> configuration of both. >>> >>> I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it >> is >>> relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak >>> it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) >> of >>> these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL >>> can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be >>> tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training >> and >>> investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? >>> >>> If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there >>> are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever >>> need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows >>> or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to >>> help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. >>> >>> Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. >>> The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either >> or >>> in both and how much the initial products cost. >>> >>> Some other points to consider: >>> 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no >>> intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and >> if >>> left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be >>> rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least >> it >>> is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. >>> 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) >>> 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary >>> products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 >>> contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent >>> Windows products. >>> 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. >>> >>> Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. >> They >>> are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but >>> OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for >> the >>> next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. >>> >>> Jim >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 16 17:51:16 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:51:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <2E25C8B2-B90C-40E7-A8F3-04858F2E96A8@phulse.com> References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> <4EC4474F.8090208@colbyconsulting.com> <2E25C8B2-B90C-40E7-A8F3-04858F2E96A8@phulse.com> Message-ID: <2956286C6F6F4E6FA3E1E5438E7E2C6B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Yes Hans, you will recognize this as an ongoing wine. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 3:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive Jim, Wow, it happened again, eh? - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 3:29 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I absolutely agree. MS has a lot of nerve assuming that they can reboot any server without permission. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/16/2011 5:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi John: >> >> One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server >> 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but >> through some MS Update that setting was modified. >> >> I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type >> request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a >> MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. >> It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data >> that I knew anything was wrong. >> >>> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and >> it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. >> >> Jim >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:33 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY >> moreexpensive >> >> >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone >> for too long it will >> start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. >> >> I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about >> "needing to reboot after >> updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows >> Server 2008 and SQL >> Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. >> >> One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL >> variant. Then I will >> truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much >> so as any system can expect. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Hi Shamil: >>> >>> The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux >> had >>> no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. >>> Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late >> nineties >>> when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it >>> sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard >>> configuration. >>> >>> If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx >>> they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this >> is >>> also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux >>> desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit >> and >>> capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS >> has >>> the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could >>> host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware >> catches >>> up.) >>> >>> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >>> configuration of both. >>> >>> This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All >>> will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, >>> music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products >> and >>> on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have >>> regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any >> user >>> can get use to using either as they are very similar. >>> >>> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >>> configuration of both. >>> >>> I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it >> is >>> relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak >>> it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) >> of >>> these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL >>> can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be >>> tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training >> and >>> investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? >>> >>> If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there >>> are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever >>> need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows >>> or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to >>> help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. >>> >>> Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. >>> The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either >> or >>> in both and how much the initial products cost. >>> >>> Some other points to consider: >>> 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no >>> intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and >> if >>> left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be >>> rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least >> it >>> is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. >>> 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) >>> 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary >>> products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 >>> contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent >>> Windows products. >>> 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. >>> >>> Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. >> They >>> are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but >>> OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for >> the >>> next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. >>> >>> Jim >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Nov 17 01:51:22 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:51:22 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Message-ID: Hi Jim et al Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: "Install updates automatically (recommended)" instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> Hi John: One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but through some MS Update that setting was modified. I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data that I knew anything was wrong. >From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. Jim From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Nov 17 02:09:00 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 00:09:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67AF3394-BAE7-4B82-BD29-8497BCD53804@phulse.com> Hej Gustav, Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Nov 17 03:06:54 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:06:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Message-ID: Hi Hans Yes, that is strange. Or does a category "Extremely urgent updates that overrules setting for later install" for updates exist? /gustav >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 17-11-2011 09:09 >>> Hej Gustav, Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 17 07:04:08 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:04:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC50648.1070301@colbyconsulting.com> Gustav, I have had this happen to me as well. I set ALL my machines to download and notify me and suddenly I come in and the server has rebooted and informs me that an update was done which required a reboot. The only thing I can figure is that a previous update which I did reboot after has gone in and reset that setting to automatic. This is real, believe me. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 2:51 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18>>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > >> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Nov 17 07:17:25 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:17:25 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Message-ID: Hi John I listen, but I've never seen it myself. Have a dozen or so servers running - physical as well as virtual - but most are 2003; only two are 2008 and one is 2000 (= zero updates!) /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 17-11-2011 14:04 >>> Gustav, I have had this happen to me as well. I set ALL my machines to download and notify me and suddenly I come in and the server has rebooted and informs me that an update was done which required a reboot. The only thing I can figure is that a previous update which I did reboot after has gone in and reset that setting to automatic. This is real, believe me. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 2:51 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18>>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > >> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 08:34:11 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:34:11 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> References: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? .... etc ... IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... Hans you noted: <<<<<<<<<<< But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: 1. They really need a certain feature 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. As Darryl writes: <<<< In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > Hi Shamil, > > > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. > > In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > > > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > > > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) > > You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. > > Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > > > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? > > If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. > > If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. > > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > > - Hans > > On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Hans -- > > > > Thank you for your reply. > > > > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > > > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > > > And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > > > > "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > > > > "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >> > >> > >> Hi Shamil, > >> > >> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. > >> > >> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. > >> > >> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. > >> > >> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. > >> > >> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. > >> > >> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. > >> > >> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). > >> > >> - Hans > >> > >> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> > >>> Hans -- > >>> > >>> Than you for your remark. > >>> > >>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > >>> > >>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > >>> > >>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > >>> > >>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >>> > >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Shamil, > >>>> > >>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > >>>> > >>>> - Hans > >>>> > >>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Jim, John at all, > >>>>> > >>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. > >>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > >>>>> > >>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > >>>>> > >>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > >>>>> > >>>>> .Now take > >>>>> > >>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > >>>>> > >>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > >>>>> > >>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > >>>>>> John: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >>>>>> ;-) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Jim > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ) > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> AccessD mailing list > >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 17 10:59:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:59:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EC53D89.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, If you read my original post closely you will see that it a client bringing up a new server, *not* my server here at my home office which is where I run the custom written C# program and SQL Server BE. As I think I stated in my original post, this client is at a transition point. They have to select an OS and a database engine. Their system uses Access backends, which we have split into many files due to size constraints. So for *this client* it is appropriate to study which route makes more sense. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > > Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > > I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > > How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > .... etc ... > > IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > > You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > > I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > > Hans you noted: > > <<<<<<<<<<< > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>>> > > I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > > As Darryl writes: > > <<<< > In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>>> > I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > > I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > > Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 > > 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >> >> Hi Shamil, >> >>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? >> >> I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. >> >> In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. >> >>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. >> >> In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) >> >>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) >> >> You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. >> >> Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. >> >>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? >> >> If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. >> >> If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. >> >> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: >> >> 1. They really need a certain feature >> >> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) >> >> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >> >> - Hans >> >> On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >>> Hi Hans -- >>> >>> Thank you for your reply. >>> >>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? >>> >>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. >>> >>> And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? >>> >>> "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" >>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... >>> >>> "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." >>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> >>> 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Shamil, >>>> >>>> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web& mobile development. >>>> >>>> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts& bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. >>>> >>>> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. >>>> >>>> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. >>>> >>>> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. >>>> >>>> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. >>>> >>>> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). >>>> >>>> - Hans >>>> >>>> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hans -- >>>>> >>>>> Than you for your remark. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) >>>>> >>>>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... >>>>> >>>>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? >>>>> >>>>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Shamil, >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Hans >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Jim, John at all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>>>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>>>>>> >>>>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> .Now take >>>>>>> >>>>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Shamil >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence": >>>>>>>> John: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>>>>>> ;-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 13:00:18 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:00:18 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <4EC53D89.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC53D89.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John -- Thank you for your clarification - from you original post http://e.mail.ru/cgi-bin/msglist?542573152=&folder=0#readmsg?id=13211081120000000542&folder=3 it wasn't clear for me that you're talking about particular client considering probable moving out of using MS Windows and MS database (Access or SQL) backends, and so I mistakenly implied you're going to rework you mighty "data crunching" system to use mySQL... -- Shamil 17 ?????? 2011, 21:01 ?? jwcolby : > Shamil, > > If you read my original post closely you will see that it a client bringing up a new server, *not* > my server here at my home office which is where I run the custom written C# program and SQL Server BE. > > As I think I stated in my original post, this client is at a transition point. They have to select > an OS and a database engine. Their system uses Access backends, which we have split into many files > due to size constraints. > > So for *this client* it is appropriate to study which route makes more sense. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > > > > Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > > > > I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > > I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > > > > How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > > How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > > Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > > Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > > What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > > Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > > .... etc ... > > > > IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > > > > You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > > > > I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > > > > Hans you noted: > > > > <<<<<<<<<<< > > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > > > > As Darryl writes: > > > > <<<< > > In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access > >>>>> > > I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > > > > I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > > > > Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > > I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 > > > > 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >> > >> Hi Shamil, > >> > >>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > >> > >> I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. > >> > >> In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > >> > >>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > >> > >> In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > >> > >>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) > >> > >> You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. > >> > >> Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > >> > >>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? > >> > >> If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. > >> > >> If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. > >> > >> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > >> > >> 1. They really need a certain feature > >> > >> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > >> > >> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >> > >> - Hans > >> > >> On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Hans -- > >>> > >>> Thank you for your reply. > >>> > >>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > >>> > >>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > >>> > >>> And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > >>> > >>> "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > >>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > >>> > >>> "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > >>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >>> > >>> > >>> 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Hi Shamil, > >>>> > >>>> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web& mobile development. > >>>> > >>>> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts& bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. > >>>> > >>>> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. > >>>> > >>>> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. > >>>> > >>>> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. > >>>> > >>>> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. > >>>> > >>>> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). > >>>> > >>>> - Hans > >>>> > >>>> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hans -- > >>>>> > >>>>> Than you for your remark. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > >>>>> > >>>>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > >>>>> > >>>>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > >>>>> > >>>>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Shamil, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - Hans > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Jim, John at all, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. > >>>>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> .Now take > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thank you. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence": > >>>>>>>> John: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >>>>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >>>>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >>>>>>>> ;-) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >>>>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >>>>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >>>>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >>>>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >>>>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >>>>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Jim > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> AccessD mailing list > >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 17 13:09:47 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:09:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] TOC MySQL vs SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EC55BFB.1080506@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, OK, so now that we understand that it is in fact a client's new server that I was discussing originally, let's go ahead and discuss doing the same thing here at my home office. First take a look at this article: http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/move_from_microsoft_SQL_Server.html It would appear that I could in fact run MySQL right on my existing server should I so desire. I have built my mongo server around Windows 2008 and SQL Server 2008. I have written a custom C# application which performs massive table updates every month. Due to the fact that the server runs an X64 version of windows and I installed an X64 version of Visual Studio on the server, and the fact that the X64 version does not support "edit and continue", I actually run the C# application on vmDev which runs an X32 version of Visual Studio. The application runs on a VM and the actual database manipulations run on the X64 server. The application, written in C#, executes dynamic SQL on the server, getting back results. If I needed to, what would be the "costs" to move to MySQL? The question becomes: 1) Cost to install and come up to speed on MySQL. 2) The complexity (time) to move the data from SQL Server to MSSql. 3) What is involved in porting the code to use dynamic SQL that MySQL supports? In my case the databases I manipulate are not very complex. Typically each database has two or a few tables. I am not using stored procedures in SQL Server, in fact I have intentionally migrated away from doing so (I used to). My "stored procedures" are now C# routines and dynamic SQL. I find C# much more flexible as a language and find no need for stored procedures *for this application*. My take on migrating this application to MySQL is that I would not hesitate to do so if I needed to, and I do not currently need to. I do not need to run the C# code itself on the server so even if the database or MySQL were hosted on Linux, I could still probably run my application, assuming the Dynamic SQL port. After the migration, the TCO seems to be similar, or perhaps lower than an MS only solution since SQL Server licensing costs go away. If I were to migrate to Linux then Windows licensing costs go away. These are not insubstantial costs. I do not use Linux or MySQL so I cannot speak with authority but they both appear to have reached the point where they are not rocket science, or any more so that maintaining Windows server software is. I am really exploring this more in the context of future business. MS licensing is already so convoluted and costly that small businesses are protesting server based systems. They used to use Access and I used to recommend Access, be and fe, but am I going to continue doing so? I think not. So what do I recommend when MS wants $10K to $20K for the Windows / SQL Server licenses for a new server? For the small businesses I work for this is a large chunk of change. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > > Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > > I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > > How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > .... etc ... > > IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > > You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > > I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > > Hans you noted: > > <<<<<<<<<<< > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>>> > > I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > > As Darryl writes: > > <<<< > In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>>> > I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > > I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > > Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 17 13:12:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:12:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EC53D89.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EC55C87.3010206@colbyconsulting.com> Your link takes me to a n email login screen in Russia. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 2:00 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi John -- > > Thank you for your clarification - from you original post > > http://e.mail.ru/cgi-bin/msglist?542573152=&folder=0#readmsg?id=13211081120000000542&folder=3 > > it wasn't clear for me that you're talking about particular client considering probable moving out of using MS Windows and MS database (Access or SQL) backends, and so I mistakenly implied you're going to rework you mighty "data crunching" system to use mySQL... > > -- Shamil > > 17 ?????? 2011, 21:01 ?? jwcolby: >> Shamil, >> >> If you read my original post closely you will see that it a client bringing up a new server, *not* >> my server here at my home office which is where I run the custom written C# program and SQL Server BE. >> >> As I think I stated in my original post, this client is at a transition point. They have to select >> an OS and a database engine. Their system uses Access backends, which we have split into many files >> due to size constraints. >> >> So for *this client* it is appropriate to study which route makes more sense. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>> Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- >>> >>> Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... >>> >>> I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. >>> I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. >>> >>> How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? >>> How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? >>> Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? >>> Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? >>> What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? >>> Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? >>> .... etc ... >>> >>> IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. >>> >>> You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. >>> >>> I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... >>> >>> Hans you noted: >>> >>> <<<<<<<<<<< >>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: >>> >>> 1. They really need a certain feature >>> >>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) >>> >>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. >>> >>> As Darryl writes: >>> >>> <<<< >>> In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>>>>> >>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. >>> >>> I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. >>> >>> Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... >>> I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" >>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 >>> >>> 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>> >>>> Hi Shamil, >>>> >>>>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? >>>> >>>> I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. >>>> >>>> In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. >>>> >>>>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. >>>> >>>> In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) >>>> >>>>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) >>>> >>>> You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. >>>> >>>> Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. >>>> >>>>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? >>>> >>>> If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. >>>> >>>> If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. >>>> >>>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: >>>> >>>> 1. They really need a certain feature >>>> >>>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) >>>> >>>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>> >>>> - Hans >>>> >>>> On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Hans -- >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your reply. >>>>> >>>>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? >>>>> >>>>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. >>>>> >>>>> And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? >>>>> >>>>> "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" >>>>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... >>>>> >>>>> "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." >>>>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Shamil, >>>>>> >>>>>> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web& mobile development. >>>>>> >>>>>> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts& bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. >>>>>> >>>>>> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. >>>>>> >>>>>> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. >>>>>> >>>>>> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). >>>>>> >>>>>> - Hans >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hans -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Than you for your remark. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Shamil >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Shamil, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Hans >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jim, John at all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>>>>>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> .Now take >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- Shamil >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence": >>>>>>>>>> John: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>>>>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>>>>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>>>>>>>> ;-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>>>>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>>>>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>>>>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>>>>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>>>>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>>>>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 13:50:52 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:50:52 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <4EC55C87.3010206@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC55C87.3010206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Sorry, John, for misleading URL I have posted, I can't get at Access-D archives - I meant this your original posting: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< From: jwcolby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving , Sqlserver-Dba 12 November 2011, 18:28 http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012-licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from clients and massive switching to MySQL and the likes. I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17 ?????? 2011, 23:13 ?? jwcolby : > Your link takes me to a n email login screen in Russia. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/17/2011 2:00 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hi John -- > > > > Thank you for your clarification - from you original post > > > > http://e.mail.ru/cgi-bin/msglist?542573152=&folder=0#readmsg?id=13211081120000000542&folder=3 > > > > it wasn't clear for me that you're talking about particular client considering probable moving out of using MS Windows and MS database (Access or SQL) backends, and so I mistakenly implied you're going to rework you mighty "data crunching" system to use mySQL... > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 17 ?????? 2011, 21:01 ?? jwcolby: > >> Shamil, > >> > >> If you read my original post closely you will see that it a client bringing up a new server, *not* > >> my server here at my home office which is where I run the custom written C# program and SQL Server BE. > >> > >> As I think I stated in my original post, this client is at a transition point. They have to select > >> an OS and a database engine. Their system uses Access backends, which we have split into many files > >> due to size constraints. > >> > >> So for *this client* it is appropriate to study which route makes more sense. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> Colby Consulting > >> > >> Reality is what refuses to go away > >> when you do not believe in it > >> > >> On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>> Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > >>> > >>> Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > >>> > >>> I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > >>> I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > >>> > >>> How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > >>> How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > >>> Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > >>> Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > >>> What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > >>> Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > >>> .... etc ... > >>> > >>> IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > >>> > >>> You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > >>> > >>> I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > >>> > >>> Hans you noted: > >>> > >>> <<<<<<<<<<< > >>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > >>> > >>> 1. They really need a certain feature > >>> > >>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > >>> > >>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>> > >>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > >>> > >>> As Darryl writes: > >>> > >>> <<<< > >>> In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access > >>>>>>> > >>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > >>> > >>> I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > >>> > >>> Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > >>> I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >>> > >>> P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" > >>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 > >>> > >>> 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>> > >>>> Hi Shamil, > >>>> > >>>>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > >>>> > >>>> I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. > >>>> > >>>> In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > >>>> > >>>>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > >>>> > >>>> In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > >>>> > >>>>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) > >>>> > >>>> You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. > >>>> > >>>> Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > >>>> > >>>>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? > >>>> > >>>> If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. > >>>> > >>>> If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. > >>>> > >>>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > >>>> > >>>> 1. They really need a certain feature > >>>> > >>>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > >>>> > >>>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>> > >>>> - Hans > >>>> > >>>> On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Hans -- > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you for your reply. > >>>>> > >>>>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > >>>>> > >>>>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > >>>>> > >>>>> And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > >>>>> > >>>>> "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > >>>>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > >>>>> > >>>>> "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > >>>>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Shamil, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web& mobile development. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts& bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - Hans > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hans -- > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Than you for your remark. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thank you. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Shamil, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> - Hans > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Jim, John at all, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. > >>>>>>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> .Now take > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Thank you. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence": > >>>>>>>>>> John: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >>>>>>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >>>>>>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >>>>>>>>>> ;-) > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >>>>>>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >>>>>>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >>>>>>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >>>>>>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >>>>>>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >>>>>>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Jim > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ) > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 17 14:23:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:23:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <63724C1DCACC4A87B028141C6138BA7A@creativesystemdesigns.com> That is exactly how I set things as I have done this many times before. Maybe I may have over-looked this process once or twice but when it starts happening more on a continuous bases I starting suspecting the previous updates assistance. I have now learned after each update to go and turn-off auto-updates but I am caught occasionally. All I want it to is just stay off, period. I can understand auto-updates being the default setting on workstations but having the same on servers is crazy. IMHO, Auto-update for servers does not need to exist. Jim PS My current versions of Linux, do regular updates, always asks to start, rarely requires a reboot and always asks when it does. That process works for me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 11:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Hi Jim et al Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: "Install updates automatically (recommended)" instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> Hi John: One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but through some MS Update that setting was modified. I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data that I knew anything was wrong. >From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 17 14:29:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:29:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <789EF360B9B14964B970FBC3C6554F00@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Gustav: I would like to see a feature accompanying the update process that will email me when an urgent issue requires user intervention... Is there such a product out there or some hidden feature in the MS OS? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Hi Hans Yes, that is strange. Or does a category "Extremely urgent updates that overrules setting for later install" for updates exist? /gustav >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 17-11-2011 09:09 >>> Hej Gustav, Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 14:34:40 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 00:34:40 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?TOC_MySQL_vs_SQL_Server?= In-Reply-To: <4EC55BFB.1080506@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC55BFB.1080506@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John -- Well, you use SQL backend mainly as a "dumb" relational engine, no (advanced) server side static T-SQL Stored Procedures, no T-SQL User Defined Functions simulating "virtual" tables?.... And quite a few of custom client side metadata driven C# coding to build dynamic SQL, advanced custom UI framework etc.? Then your transition to mySQL: should be probably rather smooth... But if you use MS SQL/ .NET SQLBulkLoad classes then you might need to substitute them with custom coding ... I do it different way when using MS SQL: I'm trying to keep as much as possible business rules and logic on server side implemented in Stored Procedures, User Defined Functions, Views etc. By doing it that way I can keep my client side layer as thin and as dumb as possible, and my C# business layer not overloaded with custom "plumbing" etc. Advantages: clear "separations of concerns" of different application system layers, streamlined coding, relatively low support and functionality extensions costs, possibility to have all kinds of modern UIs using the same core business and data layers, as MS software supports all the modern UI-development technologies ... Disadvantages: I'm "bound" to MS SQL back-end... But nor I nor my customers do not care about that binding as it doesn't limit any way our freedom to support and to extend current solutions, and my customers do not yet have that much data to not fit one MS SQL Express database, even customer with more than 8000 users of an ASP.NET web site running for four years without any serious issues ... When my customers will need more processing power then we will probably move to a hosting site/cloud.... If you can split your databases into many smaller databases then you can also put them on hosting sites and "wrap" by web services still running using MS Windows, and then make your application consolidating that data - I guess it wouldn't be needed to get gigabytes of data retrieved to your client layer during such consolidation?... Thank you. -- Shamil 17 ?????? 2011, 23:11 ?? jwcolby : > Shamil, > > OK, so now that we understand that it is in fact a client's new server that I was discussing > originally, let's go ahead and discuss doing the same thing here at my home office. > > First take a look at this article: > > http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/move_from_microsoft_SQL_Server.html > > It would appear that I could in fact run MySQL right on my existing server should I so desire. > > I have built my mongo server around Windows 2008 and SQL Server 2008. I have written a custom C# > application which performs massive table updates every month. Due to the fact that the server runs > an X64 version of windows and I installed an X64 version of Visual Studio on the server, and the > fact that the X64 version does not support "edit and continue", I actually run the C# application on > vmDev which runs an X32 version of Visual Studio. > > The application runs on a VM and the actual database manipulations run on the X64 server. The > application, written in C#, executes dynamic SQL on the server, getting back results. > > If I needed to, what would be the "costs" to move to MySQL? The question becomes: > > 1) Cost to install and come up to speed on MySQL. > 2) The complexity (time) to move the data from SQL Server to MSSql. > 3) What is involved in porting the code to use dynamic SQL that MySQL supports? > > In my case the databases I manipulate are not very complex. Typically each database has two or a > few tables. I am not using stored procedures in SQL Server, in fact I have intentionally migrated > away from doing so (I used to). My "stored procedures" are now C# routines and dynamic SQL. I find > C# much more flexible as a language and find no need for stored procedures *for this application*. > > My take on migrating this application to MySQL is that I would not hesitate to do so if I needed to, > and I do not currently need to. I do not need to run the C# code itself on the server so even if > the database or MySQL were hosted on Linux, I could still probably run my application, assuming the > Dynamic SQL port. > > After the migration, the TCO seems to be similar, or perhaps lower than an MS only solution since > SQL Server licensing costs go away. If I were to migrate to Linux then Windows licensing costs go > away. These are not insubstantial costs. I do not use Linux or MySQL so I cannot speak with > authority but they both appear to have reached the point where they are not rocket science, or any > more so that maintaining Windows server software is. > > I am really exploring this more in the context of future business. MS licensing is already so > convoluted and costly that small businesses are protesting server based systems. They used to use > Access and I used to recommend Access, be and fe, but am I going to continue doing so? I think not. > > So what do I recommend when MS wants $10K to $20K for the Windows / SQL Server licenses for a new > server? For the small businesses I work for this is a large chunk of change. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > > > > Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > > > > I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > > I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > > > > How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > > How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > > Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > > Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > > What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > > Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > > .... etc ... > > > > IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > > > > You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > > > > I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > > > > Hans you noted: > > > > <<<<<<<<<<< > > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > > > > As Darryl writes: > > > > <<<< > > In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access > >>>>> > > I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > > > > I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > > > > Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > > I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Nov 17 14:48:06 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:48:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services Environment References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: We are thinking about running Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services environment. Our Access development work would be done on a separate PC that has the "Full Version" of Access 2010. This approach is new to us and I am curious if others have tried this. Are there any issues that we should be aware of? Thanks, Brad From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Nov 17 14:50:31 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:50:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] TOC MySQL vs SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4EC55BFB.1080506@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0A20F3EC-FBF6-4150-9011-8CD69F63C5AE@phulse.com> This is my biggest issue with stored procedures. I like them in theory, but it creates an additional layer of complexity for your application/project and is less maintainable from a developers point of view - especially when you work in teams. I prefer to simply go with the philosophy which is that your business logic stays entirely in your code and you use whatever features your DBAL / ORM can provide. But this is what works for us in a CRUD + MVC environment. I guess, for a DBA, it makes more sense. - Hans On 2011-11-17, at 12:34 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > John -- > > Well, you use SQL backend mainly as a "dumb" relational engine, no (advanced) server side static T-SQL Stored Procedures, no T-SQL User Defined Functions simulating "virtual" tables?.... > And quite a few of custom client side metadata driven C# coding to build dynamic SQL, advanced custom UI framework etc.? > > Then your transition to mySQL: should be probably rather smooth... > But if you use MS SQL/ .NET SQLBulkLoad classes then you might need to substitute them with custom coding > ... > > I do it different way when using MS SQL: I'm trying to keep as much as possible business rules and logic on server side implemented in Stored Procedures, User Defined Functions, Views etc. By doing it that way I can keep my client side layer as thin and as dumb as possible, and my C# business layer not overloaded with custom "plumbing" etc. > > Advantages: clear "separations of concerns" of different application system layers, streamlined coding, relatively low support and functionality extensions costs, possibility to have all kinds of modern UIs using the same core business and data layers, as MS software supports all the modern UI-development technologies ... > > Disadvantages: I'm "bound" to MS SQL back-end... > > But nor I nor my customers do not care about that binding as it doesn't limit any way our freedom to support and to extend current solutions, and my customers do not yet have that much data to not fit one MS SQL Express database, even customer with more than 8000 users of an ASP.NET web site running for four years without any serious issues ... > > When my customers will need more processing power then we will probably move to a hosting site/cloud.... > > If you can split your databases into many smaller databases then you can also put them on hosting sites and "wrap" by web services still running using MS Windows, and then make your application consolidating that data - I guess it wouldn't be needed to get gigabytes of data retrieved to your client layer during such consolidation?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 17 ?????? 2011, 23:11 ?? jwcolby : >> Shamil, >> >> OK, so now that we understand that it is in fact a client's new server that I was discussing >> originally, let's go ahead and discuss doing the same thing here at my home office. >> >> First take a look at this article: >> >> http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/move_from_microsoft_SQL_Server.html >> >> It would appear that I could in fact run MySQL right on my existing server should I so desire. >> >> I have built my mongo server around Windows 2008 and SQL Server 2008. I have written a custom C# >> application which performs massive table updates every month. Due to the fact that the server runs >> an X64 version of windows and I installed an X64 version of Visual Studio on the server, and the >> fact that the X64 version does not support "edit and continue", I actually run the C# application on >> vmDev which runs an X32 version of Visual Studio. >> >> The application runs on a VM and the actual database manipulations run on the X64 server. The >> application, written in C#, executes dynamic SQL on the server, getting back results. >> >> If I needed to, what would be the "costs" to move to MySQL? The question becomes: >> >> 1) Cost to install and come up to speed on MySQL. >> 2) The complexity (time) to move the data from SQL Server to MSSql. >> 3) What is involved in porting the code to use dynamic SQL that MySQL supports? >> >> In my case the databases I manipulate are not very complex. Typically each database has two or a >> few tables. I am not using stored procedures in SQL Server, in fact I have intentionally migrated >> away from doing so (I used to). My "stored procedures" are now C# routines and dynamic SQL. I find >> C# much more flexible as a language and find no need for stored procedures *for this application*. >> >> My take on migrating this application to MySQL is that I would not hesitate to do so if I needed to, >> and I do not currently need to. I do not need to run the C# code itself on the server so even if >> the database or MySQL were hosted on Linux, I could still probably run my application, assuming the >> Dynamic SQL port. >> >> After the migration, the TCO seems to be similar, or perhaps lower than an MS only solution since >> SQL Server licensing costs go away. If I were to migrate to Linux then Windows licensing costs go >> away. These are not insubstantial costs. I do not use Linux or MySQL so I cannot speak with >> authority but they both appear to have reached the point where they are not rocket science, or any >> more so that maintaining Windows server software is. >> >> I am really exploring this more in the context of future business. MS licensing is already so >> convoluted and costly that small businesses are protesting server based systems. They used to use >> Access and I used to recommend Access, be and fe, but am I going to continue doing so? I think not. >> >> So what do I recommend when MS wants $10K to $20K for the Windows / SQL Server licenses for a new >> server? For the small businesses I work for this is a large chunk of change. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>> Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- >>> >>> Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... >>> >>> I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. >>> I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. >>> >>> How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? >>> How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? >>> Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? >>> Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? >>> What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? >>> Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? >>> .... etc ... >>> >>> IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. >>> >>> You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. >>> >>> I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... >>> >>> Hans you noted: >>> >>> <<<<<<<<<<< >>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: >>> >>> 1. They really need a certain feature >>> >>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) >>> >>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. >>> >>> As Darryl writes: >>> >>> <<<< >>> In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>>>>> >>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. >>> >>> I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. >>> >>> Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... >>> I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Nov 17 15:12:08 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:12:08 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheetto a JPG File References: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857C@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> <4EC435F0.21723.28A8EFA1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: All, Thanks for the assistance, I appreciate it. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 4:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheetto a JPG File Well blow me down, who'd a thunk it? Worksheets("Sheet1").Range("A1:D4").CopyPicture xlScreen, xlBitmap Once you have the image on the clipboard, you can use the example OleCreatePictureIndirect() code directly in Access to do it. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 21:33, Martin Reid wrote: > Or > > See this thread > > http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233108 > > Martin > > Sent from my Windows Phone > ________________________________ > From: Stuart McLachlan > Sent: 16/11/2011 21:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File > > I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows > Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is > essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. > > -- > Stuart > > On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > > > Folks, > > > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > > > Sincerely, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 15:37:00 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 01:37:00 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?TOC_MySQL_vs_SQL_Server?= In-Reply-To: <0A20F3EC-FBF6-4150-9011-8CD69F63C5AE@phulse.com> References: <0A20F3EC-FBF6-4150-9011-8CD69F63C5AE@phulse.com> Message-ID: Hans -- We obviously are on "different sides of barricades" concerning the question "dumb" vs. "smart' SQL backend :) If we can agree to neglect all the "hype buzz" of "developing once run on many types of backends (Access, MS SQL, mySQL,)" then can we try to evaluate from practical point of view what is more manageable/affordable to develop/have ?: 1) "dumb" backend and business layer logic concentrated in custom (C#) layer coding or 2) "as smart as possible" backend with as dumb as as possible business layer logic implemented in custom (C#) coding... Myself and yourself I suppose are basing our practice on the same conceptual point of view that there is no absolute truth and that every (technical) solutions is a "balance of interests" but we obviously keep rather different development practices. I'd expect we would not come to a common ground/any positive definitive useful in practice outcome if we will start "darting" each other saying that "A is better than B because ...." - we will very probably end up in set of useless(?) fallacies http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/index.html#index So I'd propose if you and others are interested in discussing (1) and (2) approaches outlined above just to create a list of "emotions-free" advantages and disadvantages of both approaches. Then "armored" with such lists one can make a balanced decision what approach better suites their own experiences, practices, custom requirements... Rhetoric question: Why keeping business logic in custom code but not in (as much as possible) backend SPs and UDFs is more maintainable from a developer point of view, especially if you work in teams? I do use MVC concept for a long time, you can note I have used and promoted it even in VBA - so called "DEEP object concept (1998)" but for me MVC doesn't force me to put business logic in code when it could be kept on backend side: additional abstraction layer does create some more complexity but it gives a lot more flexibility in implementing all kinds of clients without any biding to custom object layer, and it keeps as much as possible data processing on SQL Server side.... Please note I'm not stating my approach is better than yours in all contexts, and that I'm never using "dumb" backends in my solutions but I do always try to develop "smart" backend when that is possible and that happens in most cases of my practice... Thank you. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 00:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > > This is my biggest issue with stored procedures. I like them in theory, but it creates an additional layer of complexity for your application/project and is less maintainable from a developers point of view - especially when you work in teams. I prefer to simply go with the philosophy which is that your business logic stays entirely in your code and you use whatever features your DBAL / ORM can provide. But this is what works for us in a CRUD + MVC environment. I guess, for a DBA, it makes more sense. > > - Hans > > On 2011-11-17, at 12:34 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > John -- > > > > Well, you use SQL backend mainly as a "dumb" relational engine, no (advanced) server side static T-SQL Stored Procedures, no T-SQL User Defined Functions simulating "virtual" tables?.... > > And quite a few of custom client side metadata driven C# coding to build dynamic SQL, advanced custom UI framework etc.? > > > > Then your transition to mySQL: should be probably rather smooth... > > But if you use MS SQL/ .NET SQLBulkLoad classes then you might need to substitute them with custom coding > > ... > > > > I do it different way when using MS SQL: I'm trying to keep as much as possible business rules and logic on server side implemented in Stored Procedures, User Defined Functions, Views etc. By doing it that way I can keep my client side layer as thin and as dumb as possible, and my C# business layer not overloaded with custom "plumbing" etc. > > > > Advantages: clear "separations of concerns" of different application system layers, streamlined coding, relatively low support and functionality extensions costs, possibility to have all kinds of modern UIs using the same core business and data layers, as MS software supports all the modern UI-development technologies ... > > > > Disadvantages: I'm "bound" to MS SQL back-end... > > > > But nor I nor my customers do not care about that binding as it doesn't limit any way our freedom to support and to extend current solutions, and my customers do not yet have that much data to not fit one MS SQL Express database, even customer with more than 8000 users of an ASP.NET web site running for four years without any serious issues ... > > > > When my customers will need more processing power then we will probably move to a hosting site/cloud.... > > > > If you can split your databases into many smaller databases then you can also put them on hosting sites and "wrap" by web services still running using MS Windows, and then make your application consolidating that data - I guess it wouldn't be needed to get gigabytes of data retrieved to your client layer during such consolidation?... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > 17 ?????? 2011, 23:11 ?? jwcolby : > >> Shamil, > >> > >> OK, so now that we understand that it is in fact a client's new server that I was discussing > >> originally, let's go ahead and discuss doing the same thing here at my home office. > >> > >> First take a look at this article: > >> > >> http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/move_from_microsoft_SQL_Server.html > >> > >> It would appear that I could in fact run MySQL right on my existing server should I so desire. > >> > >> I have built my mongo server around Windows 2008 and SQL Server 2008. I have written a custom C# > >> application which performs massive table updates every month. Due to the fact that the server runs > >> an X64 version of windows and I installed an X64 version of Visual Studio on the server, and the > >> fact that the X64 version does not support "edit and continue", I actually run the C# application on > >> vmDev which runs an X32 version of Visual Studio. > >> > >> The application runs on a VM and the actual database manipulations run on the X64 server. The > >> application, written in C#, executes dynamic SQL on the server, getting back results. > >> > >> If I needed to, what would be the "costs" to move to MySQL? The question becomes: > >> > >> 1) Cost to install and come up to speed on MySQL. > >> 2) The complexity (time) to move the data from SQL Server to MSSql. > >> 3) What is involved in porting the code to use dynamic SQL that MySQL supports? > >> > >> In my case the databases I manipulate are not very complex. Typically each database has two or a > >> few tables. I am not using stored procedures in SQL Server, in fact I have intentionally migrated > >> away from doing so (I used to). My "stored procedures" are now C# routines and dynamic SQL. I find > >> C# much more flexible as a language and find no need for stored procedures *for this application*. > >> > >> My take on migrating this application to MySQL is that I would not hesitate to do so if I needed to, > >> and I do not currently need to. I do not need to run the C# code itself on the server so even if > >> the database or MySQL were hosted on Linux, I could still probably run my application, assuming the > >> Dynamic SQL port. > >> > >> After the migration, the TCO seems to be similar, or perhaps lower than an MS only solution since > >> SQL Server licensing costs go away. If I were to migrate to Linux then Windows licensing costs go > >> away. These are not insubstantial costs. I do not use Linux or MySQL so I cannot speak with > >> authority but they both appear to have reached the point where they are not rocket science, or any > >> more so that maintaining Windows server software is. > >> > >> I am really exploring this more in the context of future business. MS licensing is already so > >> convoluted and costly that small businesses are protesting server based systems. They used to use > >> Access and I used to recommend Access, be and fe, but am I going to continue doing so? I think not. > >> > >> So what do I recommend when MS wants $10K to $20K for the Windows / SQL Server licenses for a new > >> server? For the small businesses I work for this is a large chunk of change. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> Colby Consulting > >> > >> Reality is what refuses to go away > >> when you do not believe in it > >> > >> On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>> Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > >>> > >>> Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > >>> > >>> I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > >>> I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > >>> > >>> How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > >>> How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > >>> Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > >>> Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > >>> What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > >>> Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > >>> .... etc ... > >>> > >>> IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > >>> > >>> You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > >>> > >>> I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > >>> > >>> Hans you noted: > >>> > >>> <<<<<<<<<<< > >>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > >>> > >>> 1. They really need a certain feature > >>> > >>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > >>> > >>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>> > >>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > >>> > >>> As Darryl writes: > >>> > >>> <<<< > >>> In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access > >>>>>>> > >>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > >>> > >>> I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > >>> > >>> Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > >>> I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 17 15:45:42 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:45:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services Environment In-Reply-To: References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <005001cca572$41abe1a0$c503a4e0$@net> Your only challenge might be to keep the two environments synched as far as versions go. I'm not sure the issue of the run-time aways being the same as the full-version was resolved...was it ? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 3:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services > Environment > > We are thinking about running Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal > Services > environment. > > Our Access development work would be done on a separate PC that has the > "Full Version" of Access 2010. > > This approach is new to us and I am curious if others have tried this. > > Are there any issues that we should be aware of? > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 15:58:48 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 01:58:48 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?How_to_configure_WUA_=28was=3A_New_SQL_Server?= =?utf-8?b?CWxpY2Vuc2UJc2NoZW1lIC4uLik=?= In-Reply-To: <789EF360B9B14964B970FBC3C6554F00@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <789EF360B9B14964B970FBC3C6554F00@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim, Windows Management Instrumentation based solution could work for you I suppose - here is a bunch of URLs: C#/WMI: How to remotely check if Windows has updates ready to be installed? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3615895/c-wmi-how-to-remotely-check-if-windows-has-updates-ready-to-be-installed How to monitor Windows Update Status via WMI? http://www.paessler.com/knowledgebase/en/topic/3453-how-to-monitor-windows-update-status-via-wmi WMI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Management_Instrumentation WBEM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web-Based_Enterprise_Management CIM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Information_Model_(computing) WMI Explorer http://www.ks-soft.net/hostmon.eng/wmi/index.htm LINQ to WMI http://linq2wmi.codeplex.com/ .. Thank you. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 00:31 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Hi Gustav: > > I would like to see a feature accompanying the update process that will > email me when an urgent issue requires user intervention... > > Is there such a product out there or some hidden feature in the MS OS? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:07 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license > scheme ...) > > Hi Hans > > Yes, that is strange. Or does a category "Extremely urgent updates that > overrules setting for later install" for updates exist? > > /gustav > > >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 17-11-2011 09:09 >>> > Hej Gustav, > > Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to > download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? > > Best regards, > Hans-Christian Andersen > > On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > > > Hi Jim et al > > > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for > Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority > server expected to run 24/7: > > > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > > Hi John: > > > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual > but > > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have > a > > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his > data > > that I knew anything was wrong. > > > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 17 16:40:43 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:40:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: <789EF360B9B14964B970FBC3C6554F00@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <285AD12C0F9C4279942930B437AB4548@creativesystemdesigns.com> Thanks Shamil...I will definitely look into this. No more surprise reboots would be a real plus. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Hi Jim, Windows Management Instrumentation based solution could work for you I suppose - here is a bunch of URLs: C#/WMI: How to remotely check if Windows has updates ready to be installed? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3615895/c-wmi-how-to-remotely-check-if-wi ndows-has-updates-ready-to-be-installed How to monitor Windows Update Status via WMI? http://www.paessler.com/knowledgebase/en/topic/3453-how-to-monitor-windows-u pdate-status-via-wmi WMI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Management_Instrumentation WBEM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web-Based_Enterprise_Management CIM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Information_Model_(computing) WMI Explorer http://www.ks-soft.net/hostmon.eng/wmi/index.htm LINQ to WMI http://linq2wmi.codeplex.com/ .. Thank you. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 00:31 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Hi Gustav: > > I would like to see a feature accompanying the update process that will > email me when an urgent issue requires user intervention... > > Is there such a product out there or some hidden feature in the MS OS? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:07 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license > scheme ...) > > Hi Hans > > Yes, that is strange. Or does a category "Extremely urgent updates that > overrules setting for later install" for updates exist? > > /gustav > > >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 17-11-2011 09:09 >>> > Hej Gustav, > > Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to > download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? > > Best regards, > Hans-Christian Andersen > > On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > > > Hi Jim et al > > > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for > Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority > server expected to run 24/7: > > > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > > Hi John: > > > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual > but > > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have > a > > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his > data > > that I knew anything was wrong. > > > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Nov 18 03:54:41 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:54:41 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Office_365_-_custom_development_using_Excel_C?= =?utf-8?q?alculation_Services_=28ECS=29_and_Word_Automation_Services_=28W?= =?utf-8?b?QVMp?= Message-ID: Hi All -- Does anybody practices subj? Do ECS and WAS available within Office 365 hosting plans? Here are some informational links: Office 365 List of Microsoft Office 365 Service Provider Partners http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/list-of-microsoft-office-365-service-provider-partners/ Minimum System Requirements for Office 365 http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/minimum-system-requirements-for-office-365/ Developing with SharePoint 2010 Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx Developing for SharePoint 2010 Excel Services Using Web Services or the Excel Services REST API http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff640648.aspx Open XML SDK + Office Services: Better Together http://blogs.msdn.com/b/brian_jones/archive/2010/02/26/open-xml-sdk-office-services-better-together.aspx Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Nov 18 06:19:11 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:19:11 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?OT=3A_=22I_feel_your_pain=2C_man!=22_or_=22Pr?= =?utf-8?q?ogrammers_are_most_effective_when_they_avoid_writing_code=2E=2E?= =?utf-8?b?LiI=?= Message-ID: Hi All, This and the other day I have read through and collected a set of links on articles I liked to read about our profession, authored mainly by John D. Cook (http://www.johndcook.com/blog/) and I'd like to share that links with you for your Friday/weekend reading: Enjoy! "... no matter how often you want to play the role of a hero, there will always be circumstances that test the limits of your ability to be one. It?s difficult to judge when helping someone means doing something immoral, and it?s even harder to admit you are unable to solve someone?s problem ? and chances are, that someone will view you as incompetent because you were unable to help them..." Your job is trivial. (But I couldn?t do it.) http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/01/14/your-job-is-trivial-but-i-couldnt-do-it/ Why Can't Programmers.. Program? http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html The buck stops with the programmer http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/19/the-buck-stops-with-the-programmer/ The dark side of linchpins http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/05/10/the-dark-side-of-linchpins/ Do you really want to be indispensable? http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/04/22/being-indispensable/ Where does the programming effort go? http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/18/where-does-the-programming-effort-go/ Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/12/23/why-programmers-are-not-paid-in-proportion-to-their-productivity/ Whatever happened to programming http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/whatever-happened-to-programming/?Programming The plumber programmer http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/11/15/plumber-programmers/ Programming the last mile http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/29/programming-the-last-mile/ It doesn?t pay to be the computer guy http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/11/22/the-computer-guy/ 10 Reasons It Doesn?t Pay To Be ?The Computer Guy? http://www.lifereboot.com/2007/10-reasons-it-doesnt-pay-to-be-the-computer-guy/ Why there will always be programmers http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/10/27/why-there-will-always-be-programmers/ ... Thank you. -- Shamil From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Fri Nov 18 08:14:55 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:14:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] EatBloat latest version?? availability Message-ID: Hi Folks, I've gone through old posts and see references that Dan was working on version 5, also that others were working on a .net version. However, I'm running Acc2003 and am looking for the latest version of the EatBloat routine Was it ever set up on databaseadvisors.com? I looked and didn't find it. Thanks in advance. Jack From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Nov 18 11:30:48 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:30:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most effective when they avoid writing code..." In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <363FB114CEFE4062B345D2BA48A28EC5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Very interesting stuff Shamil. It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and now everything is working. The clients like to see more concern and effort and sometimes fixed something fast can be bad for you as a programmer. This of course why I like a flat rate type insurance-policy support contracts. Sometimes you are not paid for what you do but if you do it right, in the first place, it can go for months with little more than a status report and an invoice. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most effective when they avoid writing code..." Hi All, This and the other day I have read through and collected a set of links on articles I liked to read about our profession, authored mainly by John D. Cook (http://www.johndcook.com/blog/) and I'd like to share that links with you for your Friday/weekend reading: Enjoy! "... no matter how often you want to play the role of a hero, there will always be circumstances that test the limits of your ability to be one. It's difficult to judge when helping someone means doing something immoral, and it's even harder to admit you are unable to solve someone's problem - and chances are, that someone will view you as incompetent because you were unable to help them..." Your job is trivial. (But I couldn't do it.) http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/01/14/your-job-is-trivial-but-i-couldnt-d o-it/ Why Can't Programmers.. Program? http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html The buck stops with the programmer http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/19/the-buck-stops-with-the-programmer/ The dark side of linchpins http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/05/10/the-dark-side-of-linchpins/ Do you really want to be indispensable? http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/04/22/being-indispensable/ Where does the programming effort go? http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/18/where-does-the-programming-effort-g o/ Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/12/23/why-programmers-are-not-paid-in-pro portion-to-their-productivity/ Whatever happened to programming http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/whatever-happened-to-programming/?Pro gramming The plumber programmer http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/11/15/plumber-programmers/ Programming the last mile http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/29/programming-the-last-mile/ It doesn't pay to be the computer guy http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/11/22/the-computer-guy/ 10 Reasons It Doesn't Pay To Be "The Computer Guy" http://www.lifereboot.com/2007/10-reasons-it-doesnt-pay-to-be-the-computer-g uy/ Why there will always be programmers http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/10/27/why-there-will-always-be-programmer s/ ... Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 18 15:20:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:20:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] XP vs Vista vs sp1 vs 2008 vs 32 vs 64 benchmarked Message-ID: <4EC6CC07.5050207@colbyconsulting.com> http://forum.notebookreview.com/windows-os-software/242891-xp-vs-vista-vs-sp1-vs-2008-vs-32-vs-64-benchmarked.html -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Nov 18 16:08:40 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 14:08:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] XP vs Vista vs sp1 vs 2008 vs 32 vs 64 benchmarked In-Reply-To: <4EC6CC07.5050207@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC6CC07.5050207@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Interesting, but a shame it's from 2008 and doesnt include Win7. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-18, at 1:20 PM, jwcolby wrote: > > http://forum.notebookreview.com/windows-os-software/242891-xp-vs-vista-vs-sp1-vs-2008-vs-32-vs-64-benchmarked.html > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Fri Nov 18 17:08:57 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:08:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services Environment References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> <005001cca572$41abe1a0$c503a4e0$@net> Message-ID: Mark, Thanks for the help/info. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 3:46 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services Environment Your only challenge might be to keep the two environments synched as far as versions go. I'm not sure the issue of the run-time aways being the same as the full-version was resolved...was it ? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 3:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services > Environment > > We are thinking about running Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal > Services > environment. > > Our Access development work would be done on a separate PC that has the > "Full Version" of Access 2010. > > This approach is new to us and I am curious if others have tried this. > > Are there any issues that we should be aware of? > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 18 17:43:47 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:43:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I know the feeling so well: http://xkcd.com/979/ -- Stuart From john at winhaven.net Fri Nov 18 18:20:14 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 18:20:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <033801cca651$0243a090$06cae1b0$@winhaven.net> Yea, been there with you. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 5:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that I know the feeling so well: http://xkcd.com/979/ -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Nov 18 19:51:10 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:51:10 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <84B116FF8B2448E0989A814175F8CBEF@creativesystemdesigns.com> I recognized that error. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 3:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that I know the feeling so well: http://xkcd.com/979/ -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Sat Nov 19 08:12:09 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:12:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] EatBloat latest version?? availability --- EIasT - further review Message-ID: Dan, Further to my (off list) note from late last night, I did a little more review. I opened the EIasT.mdb with a breakpoint to allow stepping thru the code. In the problem data base, the queries and forms - up to the problem form - are all exported as text as expected. After the error, the code stops on a STOP statement, as it should. If I step through, it continues with the next procedure in code and does Import the text that was previously exported. It seems I have a corrupted Form and that its source can not be retrieved. I did not find any resolution to the "there isn't enough memory to perform this operation. Close unneeded programs and try the operation again". Seems the consensus is to rebuild the form involved. So from an EIasT view, I did use the utility against another database and all was well. It did build a directory and saved all queries, forms, reports and nodules (I don't have any macros), It did import all the text. It does Compact and Repair. And the database , original and rebuilt are available. Good stuuf. I'm impressed with your code. No wasted code; very concise. I especially like the line numbers in the vba. I take it that is based on your use of FMC utilities. The progress bars are a nice feature - seems there are lots of people trying to build these based on forums I've seen. Again, thanks for responding quickly, and thanks for the EIasT code. Perhaps it should be made available at databaseadvisors as a utility. Jack From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Nov 19 08:14:18 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 18:14:18 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?OT=3A_=22I_feel_your_pain=2C_man!=22_or_=22Pr?= =?utf-8?q?ogrammers_are_most_effective_when_they_avoid_writing_code=2E=2E?= =?utf-8?b?LiI=?= In-Reply-To: <363FB114CEFE4062B345D2BA48A28EC5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <363FB114CEFE4062B345D2BA48A28EC5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- > It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on > site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and > now everything is working. Yes, that's true: "Some things you just can't explain..." http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/00/Jan/explain.html :) Have nice weekend. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 21:32 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Very interesting stuff Shamil. > > It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on > site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and > now everything is working. > > The clients like to see more concern and effort and sometimes fixed > something fast can be bad for you as a programmer. > > This of course why I like a flat rate type insurance-policy support > contracts. Sometimes you are not paid for what you do but if you do it > right, in the first place, it can go for months with little more than a > status report and an invoice. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:19 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most > effective when they avoid writing code..." > > Hi All, > > This and the other day I have read through and collected a set of links on > articles I liked to read about our profession, authored mainly by John D. > Cook (http://www.johndcook.com/blog/) and I'd like to share that links with > you for your Friday/weekend reading: > > Enjoy! > > "... no matter how often you want to play the role of a hero, there will > always be circumstances that test the limits of your ability to be one. It's > difficult to judge when helping someone means doing something immoral, and > it's even harder to admit you are unable to solve someone's problem - and > chances are, that someone will view you as incompetent because you were > unable to help them..." > > Your job is trivial. (But I couldn't do it.) > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/01/14/your-job-is-trivial-but-i-couldnt-d > o-it/ > > Why Can't Programmers.. Program? > http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html > > The buck stops with the programmer > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/19/the-buck-stops-with-the-programmer/ > > The dark side of linchpins > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/05/10/the-dark-side-of-linchpins/ > > Do you really want to be indispensable? > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/04/22/being-indispensable/ > > Where does the programming effort go? > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/18/where-does-the-programming-effort-g > o/ > > Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/12/23/why-programmers-are-not-paid-in-pro > portion-to-their-productivity/ > > Whatever happened to programming > http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/whatever-happened-to-programming/?Pro > gramming > > The plumber programmer > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/11/15/plumber-programmers/ > > Programming the last mile > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/29/programming-the-last-mile/ > > It doesn't pay to be the computer guy > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/11/22/the-computer-guy/ > > 10 Reasons It Doesn't Pay To Be "The Computer Guy" > http://www.lifereboot.com/2007/10-reasons-it-doesnt-pay-to-be-the-computer-g > uy/ > > Why there will always be programmers > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/10/27/why-there-will-always-be-programmer > s/ > ... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Nov 19 09:23:12 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 07:23:12 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Message-ID: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz zle/ Rocky From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Nov 19 09:44:49 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:44:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] EatBloat latest version?? availability --- EIasT - further review In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002101cca6d2$2bb72e70$83258b50$@comcast.net> Hi Jack, Glad you liked this so far! I had thought about putting the object names in the status bar. It seems as though if the name of the object that failed had been there, that would have given you a clue as to which object had gone bad. The line numbers come from an Access utility called M-Z Tools for VBA. I use it constantly. And it's free - with a requested donation. http://www.mztools.com/index.aspx Also - I reread my instructions and forgot to say that this exports all objects except tables. It's been my experience that table bloat and problems are best solved with Compact & Repair. Would it be possible for you to send a copy of the Demo.mdb for me to test on? I don't think I could fix it, but it helps when testing to have a 'real world' example. If you change .mdb to .pdf it will get through just fine. Thanks for your feedback, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jack and Pat Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 8:12 AM To: AccessD Group Discussion Subject: Re: [AccessD] EatBloat latest version?? availability --- EIasT - further review Dan, Further to my (off list) note from late last night, I did a little more review. I opened the EIasT.mdb with a breakpoint to allow stepping thru the code. In the problem data base, the queries and forms - up to the problem form - are all exported as text as expected. After the error, the code stops on a STOP statement, as it should. If I step through, it continues with the next procedure in code and does Import the text that was previously exported. It seems I have a corrupted Form and that its source can not be retrieved. I did not find any resolution to the "there isn't enough memory to perform this operation. Close unneeded programs and try the operation again". Seems the consensus is to rebuild the form involved. So from an EIasT view, I did use the utility against another database and all was well. It did build a directory and saved all queries, forms, reports and nodules (I don't have any macros), It did import all the text. It does Compact and Repair. And the database , original and rebuilt are available. Good stuuf. I'm impressed with your code. No wasted code; very concise. I especially like the line numbers in the vba. I take it that is based on your use of FMC utilities. The progress bars are a nice feature - seems there are lots of people trying to build these based on forums I've seen. Again, thanks for responding quickly, and thanks for the EIasT code. Perhaps it should be made available at databaseadvisors as a utility. Jack -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 19 10:01:10 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:01:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> That website is hilarious.... And that one comic about the array indices is just such a "tell"....and should be sent to Bill Gates. > http://xkcd.com/979/ > > -- > Stuart From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 19 10:58:11 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 08:58:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: These look interesting. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 7:23 AM To: 'Off Topic'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz zle/ Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 19 11:01:22 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:01:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> References: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> Message-ID: <621D83FB7CAC4F1282C179BBFDAEE3A9@creativesystemdesigns.com> That is and is going to be a classic. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 8:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Been there, done that That website is hilarious.... And that one comic about the array indices is just such a "tell"....and should be sent to Bill Gates. > http://xkcd.com/979/ > > -- > Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 19 11:01:59 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:01:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most effective when they avoid writing code..." In-Reply-To: References: <363FB114CEFE4062B345D2BA48A28EC5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: As long as the bill is paid. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 6:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most effective when they avoid writing code..." Hi Jim -- > It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on > site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and > now everything is working. Yes, that's true: "Some things you just can't explain..." http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/00/Jan/explain.html :) Have nice weekend. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 21:32 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Very interesting stuff Shamil. > > It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on > site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and > now everything is working. > > The clients like to see more concern and effort and sometimes fixed > something fast can be bad for you as a programmer. > > This of course why I like a flat rate type insurance-policy support > contracts. Sometimes you are not paid for what you do but if you do it > right, in the first place, it can go for months with little more than a > status report and an invoice. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:19 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most > effective when they avoid writing code..." > > Hi All, > > This and the other day I have read through and collected a set of links on > articles I liked to read about our profession, authored mainly by John D. > Cook (http://www.johndcook.com/blog/) and I'd like to share that links with > you for your Friday/weekend reading: > > Enjoy! > > "... no matter how often you want to play the role of a hero, there will > always be circumstances that test the limits of your ability to be one. It's > difficult to judge when helping someone means doing something immoral, and > it's even harder to admit you are unable to solve someone's problem - and > chances are, that someone will view you as incompetent because you were > unable to help them..." > > Your job is trivial. (But I couldn't do it.) > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/01/14/your-job-is-trivial-but-i-couldnt-d > o-it/ > > Why Can't Programmers.. Program? > http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html > > The buck stops with the programmer > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/19/the-buck-stops-with-the-programmer/ > > The dark side of linchpins > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/05/10/the-dark-side-of-linchpins/ > > Do you really want to be indispensable? > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/04/22/being-indispensable/ > > Where does the programming effort go? > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/18/where-does-the-programming-effort-g > o/ > > Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/12/23/why-programmers-are-not-paid-in-pro > portion-to-their-productivity/ > > Whatever happened to programming > http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/whatever-happened-to-programming/?Pro > gramming > > The plumber programmer > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/11/15/plumber-programmers/ > > Programming the last mile > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/29/programming-the-last-mile/ > > It doesn't pay to be the computer guy > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/11/22/the-computer-guy/ > > 10 Reasons It Doesn't Pay To Be "The Computer Guy" > http://www.lifereboot.com/2007/10-reasons-it-doesnt-pay-to-be-the-computer-g > uy/ > > Why there will always be programmers > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/10/27/why-there-will-always-be-programmer > s/ > ... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 19 17:30:37 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 09:30:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> Message-ID: <4EC83C1D.15974.3860F56D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> This one: http://xkcd.com/163/ ? On 19 Nov 2011 at 11:01, Mark Simms wrote: > That website is hilarious.... > And that one comic about the array indices is just such a "tell"....and > should be sent to Bill Gates. > > > http://xkcd.com/979/ > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 20 09:51:41 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 10:51:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC83C1D.15974.3860F56D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> <4EC83C1D.15974.3860F56D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <004701cca79c$4c165310$e442f930$@net> Yep. > > This one: http://xkcd.com/163/ ? From vbacreations at gmail.com Sun Nov 20 12:34:52 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:34:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook Message-ID: A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server Express was a free Sql Server engine? I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking some other softwars off my machine? I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the option to retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that there is no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing an unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for Outlook. -- From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 20 15:33:47 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:33:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named instance and correctly removed. -- Stuart On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. > > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller > also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. > > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to > have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. > > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server Express > was a free Sql Server engine? > > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would > Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking > some other softwars off my machine? > > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep > certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the option to > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that there is > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing an > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for Outlook. > > -- > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 20 16:16:40 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 22:16:40 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Thanks Shamil I am starting to do a lot of stuff with Office 365 so a few pointers is always handy. FWIIW I find it to be an excellent solution for small to medium sized businesses who either don't have the time, expertise or cash to run their own sharepoint site and exchange server. The software works pretty well, there are a few bugs but they seem to fix them fairly quickly as well. Support (at least in Oz) has been very good. Any issues on setup I have had had been quickly (and accurately) resolved. Most of the issues I have currently having are to do with me and my lack of knowledge in some areas, rather than the platform itself. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Friday, 18 November 2011 8:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) Hi All -- Does anybody practices subj? Do ECS and WAS available within Office 365 hosting plans? Here are some informational links: Office 365 List of Microsoft Office 365 Service Provider Partners http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/list-of-microsoft-office-365-service-provider-partners/ Minimum System Requirements for Office 365 http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/minimum-system-requirements-for-office-365/ Developing with SharePoint 2010 Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx Developing for SharePoint 2010 Excel Services Using Web Services or the Excel Services REST API http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff640648.aspx Open XML SDK + Office Services: Better Together http://blogs.msdn.com/b/brian_jones/archive/2010/02/26/open-xml-sdk-office-services-better-together.aspx Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 20 18:02:06 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:02:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> I am about to subscribe to Office 365....for a document management and display solution. What does this refer to : "(at least in Oz) has been very good" ? Oz ? From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 20 18:32:02 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:32:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> Message-ID: <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Oztralia - that big island just south of Papua New Guinea. -- Stuart On 20 Nov 2011 at 19:02, Mark Simms wrote: > I am about to subscribe to Office 365....for a document management and > display solution. > What does this refer to : "(at least in Oz) has been very good" ? > Oz ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 20 18:48:51 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 00:48:51 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCCE9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Thanks Stuart. Yeah, I forget how global this list is and how sometimes pithy little shortcuts get lost in translation. Sorry, my fault. Just for the record, Oz = Australia. Probably as a lot of folks call it "Oz_Trail_ya" or similar. Office 365 in Australia is support and delivered through Telstra - which is the major phone company in this country (We have others, but Telstra is the 9000 pound Gorilla of the industry). In the past their customer service has been less than stellar, but under their new CEO their focus on customer services has been greatly enhanced. In short, I had a few issues getting O365 set up correctly and they fixed them all swiftly and accurately. I was impressed. I guess I wanted to point out that your experience might be totally different as anyone based outside of Australia will have a different support setup. I would recommend O365 though, it has really made a big difference to a couple of small business I know and how they manage their documents, data and communications - already saved one of them a stack load of time and issues. Great stuff. There is value there for some folks at least. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011 11:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) Oztralia - that big island just south of Papua New Guinea. -- Stuart On 20 Nov 2011 at 19:02, Mark Simms wrote: > I am about to subscribe to Office 365....for a document management and > display solution. > What does this refer to : "(at least in Oz) has been very good" ? > Oz ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Sun Nov 20 18:53:24 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:53:24 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20111121005347.BNCI10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> And also known as the West Island of NZ :-) At 21/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >Oztralia - that big island just south of Papua New Guinea. > >-- >Stuart > >On 20 Nov 2011 at 19:02, Mark Simms wrote: > > > I am about to subscribe to Office 365....for a document management and > > display solution. > > What does this refer to : "(at least in Oz) has been very good" ? > > Oz ? From vbacreations at gmail.com Sun Nov 20 19:41:07 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:41:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: You asked "was..." it is not something I had thought to check at the time. I can check if it is still there but from the way you phrased the question Stu I get sense it would be gone now and therefore not able to be verified? If I can find BCM for O somewhere I might try installing it again to check the removal process out more thoroughly. Thanks for the idea on this. On Nov 20, 2011 4:35 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? > > If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named instance > and correctly > removed. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: > > > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. > > > > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller > > also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. > > > > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to > > have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. > > > > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server Express > > was a free Sql Server engine? > > > > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would > > Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking > > some other softwars off my machine? > > > > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep > > certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the option > to > > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that there > is > > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing > an > > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for > Outlook. > > > > -- > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Sun Nov 20 19:41:53 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:41:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: References: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: STUART NOT STU.... APOLOGIES! On Nov 20, 2011 8:41 PM, "William Benson" wrote: > You asked "was..." it is not something I had thought to check at the time. > I can check if it is still there but from the way you phrased the question > Stu I get sense it would be gone now and therefore not able to be verified? > If I can find BCM for O somewhere I might try installing it again to check > the removal process out more thoroughly. > > Thanks for the idea on this. > On Nov 20, 2011 4:35 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > wrote: > >> Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? >> >> If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named instance >> and correctly >> removed. >> >> >> -- >> Stuart >> >> On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: >> >> > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. >> > >> > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller >> > also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. >> > >> > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to >> > have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. >> > >> > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server >> Express >> > was a free Sql Server engine? >> > >> > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would >> > Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking >> > some other softwars off my machine? >> > >> > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep >> > certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the >> option to >> > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that >> there is >> > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing >> an >> > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for >> Outlook. >> > >> > -- >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 20 20:05:45 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:05:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4EC9B1F9.16375.3E155DFD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No worries, You can call me anything like want, except late for breakfast. :-) On 20 Nov 2011 at 20:41, William Benson wrote: > STUART NOT STU.... APOLOGIES! > On Nov 20, 2011 8:41 PM, "William Benson" wrote: > > > You asked "was..." it is not something I had thought to check at the time. > > I can check if it is still there but from the way you phrased the question > > Stu I get sense it would be gone now and therefore not able to be verified? > > If I can find BCM for O somewhere I might try installing it again to check > > the removal process out more thoroughly. > > > > Thanks for the idea on this. > > On Nov 20, 2011 4:35 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > > wrote: > > > >> Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? > >> > >> If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named instance > >> and correctly > >> removed. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Stuart > >> > >> On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: > >> > >> > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. > >> > > >> > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller > >> > also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. > >> > > >> > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to > >> > have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. > >> > > >> > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server > >> Express > >> > was a free Sql Server engine? > >> > > >> > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would > >> > Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking > >> > some other softwars off my machine? > >> > > >> > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep > >> > certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the > >> option to > >> > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that > >> there is > >> > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing > >> an > >> > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for > >> Outlook. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > -- > >> > AccessD mailing list > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 20 20:11:56 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 02:11:56 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: References: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCDFA@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hehehe... I bet he has been called far worse than that ;) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011 12:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook STUART NOT STU.... APOLOGIES! On Nov 20, 2011 8:41 PM, "William Benson" wrote: > You asked "was..." it is not something I had thought to check at the time. > I can check if it is still there but from the way you phrased the > question Stu I get sense it would be gone now and therefore not able to be verified? > If I can find BCM for O somewhere I might try installing it again to > check the removal process out more thoroughly. > > Thanks for the idea on this. > On Nov 20, 2011 4:35 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > wrote: > >> Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? >> >> If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named >> instance and correctly removed. >> >> >> -- >> Stuart >> >> On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: >> >> > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. >> > >> > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the >> > uninstaller also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. >> > >> > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it >> > looks to have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. >> > >> > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server >> Express >> > was a free Sql Server engine? >> > >> > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why >> > would Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I >> > was taking some other softwars off my machine? >> > >> > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to >> > keep certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had >> > the >> option to >> > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that >> there is >> > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was >> > removing >> an >> > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for >> Outlook. >> > >> > -- >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Nov 20 23:36:10 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:36:10 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Office_365_-_custom_development_using_Excel_C?= =?utf-8?q?alculation_Services_=28ECS=29_and_Word_Automation_Services_=28W?= =?utf-8?b?QVMp?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your note on your experience with Office 365. I'm also looking at it as a business opportunity which might work here in Russia "combined" with custom SharePoint and desktop solutions development and "powered" by Windows Phone 7.5+ solutions,... We will see... Thank you. -- Shamil 21 ?????? 2011, 02:18 ?? Darryl Collins : > Thanks Shamil > > I am starting to do a lot of stuff with Office 365 so a few pointers is always handy. > > FWIIW I find it to be an excellent solution for small to medium sized businesses who either don't have the time, expertise or cash to run their own sharepoint site and exchange server. The software works pretty well, there are a few bugs but they seem to fix them fairly quickly as well. Support (at least in Oz) has been very good. Any issues on setup I have had had been quickly (and accurately) resolved. > > Most of the issues I have currently having are to do with me and my lack of knowledge in some areas, rather than the platform itself. > > Cheers > Darryl > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Friday, 18 November 2011 8:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) > > Hi All -- > > Does anybody practices subj? > Do ECS and WAS available within Office 365 hosting plans? > > Here are some informational links: > > Office 365 > > List of Microsoft Office 365 Service Provider Partners http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/list-of-microsoft-office-365-service-provider-partners/ > > Minimum System Requirements for Office 365 http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/minimum-system-requirements-for-office-365/ > > Developing with SharePoint 2010 Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx > > Developing for SharePoint 2010 Excel Services Using Web Services or the Excel Services REST API http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff640648.aspx > > Open XML SDK + Office Services: Better Together http://blogs.msdn.com/b/brian_jones/archive/2010/02/26/open-xml-sdk-office-services-better-together.aspx > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 21 08:44:59 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:44:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? Message-ID: <005a01cca85c$25301ef0$6f905cd0$@net> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-microsoft-apps-that-will-cha nge-it/1156?tag=nl.e101 After reviewing this article, it appears any and all of my technical skills have little value going forward. Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 09:01:57 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:01:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? References: <005a01cca85c$25301ef0$6f905cd0$@net> Message-ID: > > Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, > Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. =====Yes it does -- just the demographics are changing. More options for big needs -- small needs, not so much. Less opportunity, yes, but valueless, no. Susan H. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 21 09:14:18 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:14:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?time_to_retire_=3F?= Message-ID: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone ranger' developers for 30 years. Rocky -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? From: "Mark Simms" Date: Mon, November 21, 2011 7:44 am To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-microsoft-apps-that-will-cha nge-it/1156?tag=nl.e101 After reviewing this article, it appears any and all of my technical skills have little value going forward. Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 10:17:43 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:17:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: IMO, this piece is targeted at IT people, not developers or database people. Fundamentally different set of skills, and as writers like to say, orthogonal. I'm not saying that some knowledge of this stuff is superfluous, but the IT people have their job and developers have their job, and only in small business is it required to wear both hats. Even in SMBs (Small to Medium-Sized Businesses, defined as total revenue more than $50M and less than $250M per year), these are separate career paths. Mom 'n' Pop outfits are way beneath this radar, IMO. How many M-n-P ops need SharePoint even, much less the other stuff. IMO almost all can get by with SQL Express (free), and have no need to upgrade. Speaking of which, I've been looking at Office365 and at first blush, this looks like a pretty cool option for me, as well as M'n'P ops. At about $6 or $7 a seat/month, it sounds just right, and eliminates all the pricey license fees. Just my IMHO, A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:14 AM, wrote: > Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those > areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out > there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone > ranger' developers for 30 years. > > Rocky > > > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 21 11:02:41 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:02:41 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <6E9F530D-751C-459B-8201-E0E1EBE36932@phulse.com> Aside from Windows 8 and maybe HyperV (I'm on the fence, I don't think virtualization is "the next big thing" anymore), I find it very hard to believe that any of these products are going to have a major impact on IT in the coming years. They all seem fairly niche and exciting to perhaps corporate CTOs. Other than that, what Arthur said. - Hans On 2011-11-21, at 8:17 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > IMO, this piece is targeted at IT people, not developers or database > people. Fundamentally different set of skills, and as writers like to > say, orthogonal. I'm not saying that some knowledge of this stuff is > superfluous, but the IT people have their job and developers have their > job, and only in small business is it required to wear both hats. Even in > SMBs (Small to Medium-Sized Businesses, defined as total revenue more than > $50M and less than $250M per year), these are separate career paths. Mom > 'n' Pop outfits are way beneath this radar, IMO. How many M-n-P ops need > SharePoint even, much less the other stuff. IMO almost all can get by with > SQL Express (free), and have no need to upgrade. Speaking of which, I've > been looking at Office365 and at first blush, this looks like a pretty cool > option for me, as well as M'n'P ops. At about $6 or $7 a seat/month, it > sounds just right, and eliminates all the pricey license fees. > > Just my IMHO, > A. > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:14 AM, wrote: > >> Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those >> areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out >> there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone >> ranger' developers for 30 years. >> >> Rocky >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 21 11:48:30 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:48:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <005a01cca85c$25301ef0$6f905cd0$@net> References: <005a01cca85c$25301ef0$6f905cd0$@net> Message-ID: <5376F6B6238B4AC39701176CE7D7705A@creativesystemdesigns.com> I must admit this is the first time in a while I have been impressed with what is coming out of the Microsoft labs for a few years. It all looks very promising. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 6:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-microsoft-apps-that-will-cha nge-it/1156?tag=nl.e101 After reviewing this article, it appears any and all of my technical skills have little value going forward. Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 12:01:20 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:01:20 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> Message-ID: All, Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). I have some dumb questions. Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and 32-bit for Deployment? Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 available? Does it fix the problem? It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? Thanks, Brad From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 21 12:06:13 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:06:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: There are many web opportunities out there. I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only going to be more demand. You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver your apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, on every device. I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the internet. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 7:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone ranger' developers for 30 years. Rocky -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? From: "Mark Simms" Date: Mon, November 21, 2011 7:44 am To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-microsoft-apps-that-will-cha nge-it/1156?tag=nl.e101 After reviewing this article, it appears any and all of my technical skills have little value going forward. Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Mon Nov 21 12:13:57 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:13:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> Message-ID: Brad, I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell you my solution. I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready to ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to an XP VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and ship from that machine to my clients. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO All, Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). I have some dumb questions. Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and 32-bit for Deployment? Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 available? Does it fix the problem? It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 12:46:20 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:46:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: There are at least two and perhaps many more possibilities lurking in your statement "I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only going to be more demand." a) Access -> ASP.NET b) Access -> Cloud c) something else Which one have you chosen, and why? Even posing the question makes me feel like an ancient, but nevertheless.... A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > There are many web opportunities out there. > > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only > going to be more demand. > > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver your > apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, on > every device. > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > > Jim > > From df.waters at comcast.net Mon Nov 21 12:53:07 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:53:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> Message-ID: <000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the ADO code to late-binding. Worked fine! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Brad, I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell you my solution. I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready to ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to an XP VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and ship from that machine to my clients. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO All, Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). I have some dumb questions. Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and 32-bit for Deployment? Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 available? Does it fix the problem? It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 14:18:46 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:18:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: <000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> <000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, and it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been edited, you never have to worry about it again. Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters wrote: > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the ADO > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Brad, > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell you > my > solution. > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready to > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to an XP > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and ship > from that machine to my clients. > > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Brad Marks" > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > All, > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > I have some dumb questions. > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > 32-bit > for Deployment? > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > available? Does it fix the problem? > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 14:58:33 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:58:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, and it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been edited, you never have to worry about it again. Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters wrote: > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the ADO > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Brad, > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell you > my > solution. > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready to > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to an XP > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and ship > from that machine to my clients. > > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Brad Marks" > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > All, > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > I have some dumb questions. > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > 32-bit > for Deployment? > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > available? Does it fix the problem? > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From dbdoug at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 15:07:37 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:07:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> <000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 15:44:22 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:44:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 21 15:57:41 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:57:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <6E9F530D-751C-459B-8201-E0E1EBE36932@phulse.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net>, , <6E9F530D-751C-459B-8201-E0E1EBE36932@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4ECAC955.10416.42589E8C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I'm with Hans and Arthur. They may change the infrastructure that developers work in, but they won't fundamentally change the need for the products of those developers or the skills those developers need. On 21 Nov 2011 at 9:02, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > > Aside from Windows 8 and maybe HyperV (I'm on the fence, I don't think > virtualization is "the next big thing" anymore), I find it very hard > to believe that any of these products are going to have a major > impact on IT in the coming years. They all seem fairly niche > and exciting to perhaps corporate CTOs. > > Other than that, what Arthur said. > > - Hans > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 21 16:01:29 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:01:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net>, Message-ID: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will be for quite a few years to come. At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before my Access skills are ready for retirement. -- Stuart On 21 Nov 2011 at 10:06, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 21 16:05:31 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:05:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net>, , Message-ID: <4ECACB2B.7003.425FCC9E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On a windows server it's: Access -> mySQL + PHP + PowerBasic CGIs Still waiting for the *nix PB compiler so that I can go the same way on all web servers. -- Stuart On 21 Nov 2011 at 13:46, Arthur Fuller wrote: > There are at least two and perhaps many more possibilities lurking in your > statement "I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and > there is only going to be more demand." > > a) Access -> ASP.NET > b) Access -> Cloud > c) something else > > Which one have you chosen, and why? Even posing the question makes me feel > like an ancient, but nevertheless.... > A. > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > There are many web opportunities out there. > > > > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only > > going to be more demand. > > > > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver your > > apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, on > > every device. > > > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > > internet. > > > > Jim > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 16:08:45 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:08:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I agree with you, Stuart, but I am also diving into C# 2010 in a serious way. There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example, but that's due to an old and perhaps obsolete bias that "Everything the db can do, the db should do." I don't like putting db logic in the front end; it sticks in this old craw; but maybe I will learn that this old adage is nearly as obsolete as I am :) A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will > be for quite a few > years to come. > > At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before > my Access skills are > ready for retirement. > > -- > Stuart > > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 16:15:06 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:15:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO - Got it working References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Doug (and others), I did some more experimenting and finally got Late Binding to work by changing line 500 to this. 500 rs.ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection Thanks again for the help. Brad ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 16:21:20 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:21:20 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 16:31:25 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:31:25 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Arthur, Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 3:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? IMO, this piece is targeted at IT people, not developers or database people. Fundamentally different set of skills, and as writers like to say, orthogonal. I'm not saying that some knowledge of this stuff is superfluous, but the IT people have their job and developers have their job, and only in small business is it required to wear both hats. Even in SMBs (Small to Medium-Sized Businesses, defined as total revenue more than $50M and less than $250M per year), these are separate career paths. Mom 'n' Pop outfits are way beneath this radar, IMO. How many M-n-P ops need SharePoint even, much less the other stuff. IMO almost all can get by with SQL Express (free), and have no need to upgrade. Speaking of which, I've been looking at Office365 and at first blush, this looks like a pretty cool option for me, as well as M'n'P ops. At about $6 or $7 a seat/month, it sounds just right, and eliminates all the pricey license fees. Just my IMHO, A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:14 AM, wrote: > Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those > areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out > there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone > ranger' developers for 30 years. > > Rocky > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 16:32:29 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:32:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Darryl, Thanks for the info and the links. I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to figure this out. We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. Sincerely, Brad PS. This problem only affects ADO, right? not DAO? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 16:33:04 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:33:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD33F@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Oh and the fix is currently scheduled for early 2012 at this stage.... So nearly a year after the problem first appeared.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 9:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 16:37:54 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:37:54 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD384@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yep, it is ADO and for all platforms (not just VBA). They have released some fixes already for other platforms, but not VBA yet. In short any code with ADO that is compiled on a W7 SP1 machine will fail if it is run on any other OS (except another W7 SP1 machine). If you get your users to recompile the code on their (non SP1) machine it will work again fine, but clearly that is not a practical solution for most users. The threads are worth a read, they are not so long and have good info on both the background of the problem, MS's surprise and dithering and possible solutions. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Darryl, Thanks for the info and the links. I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to figure this out. We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. Sincerely, Brad PS. This problem only affects ADO, right? not DAO? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 21 17:10:14 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:10:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <52E08440BAFC45D3914832F56D492301@creativesystemdesigns.com> My best current option and this is at the moment is to use ASP.Net to build a HTML interface, Adobe to build the graphics and a good server for a BE. ASP.Net for building the presentation and managing data and all the data processing at the BE. I do not like the WebPages to do anything more than manage the interface but they should manage it all. The sever BE should manage all the data and nothing else. Servers are the best options for now and in the future the Cloud...but IMHO the Cloud is not ready for primetime but that could all change in a couple of years. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? There are at least two and perhaps many more possibilities lurking in your statement "I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only going to be more demand." a) Access -> ASP.NET b) Access -> Cloud c) something else Which one have you chosen, and why? Even posing the question makes me feel like an ancient, but nevertheless.... A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > There are many web opportunities out there. > > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only > going to be more demand. > > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver your > apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, on > every device. > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > > Jim > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 21 17:22:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:22:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: You have the advantage of your environment. My environment is going internet and my poor Access skills are becoming less required every day. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will be for quite a few years to come. At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before my Access skills are ready for retirement. -- Stuart On 21 Nov 2011 at 10:06, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 17:50:43 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:50:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Since you've got experience, and since I haven't investigated all the options, am I correct in assuming that an O365 license, regardless of number of people, involves the latest (Office, SharePoint, SQL) in a participatory mechanism of some sort (e.g. per seat or something)? As proprietor of a mostly-retired company, with only me as employee, this is very appealing, and I think this could work very inexpensively for clients having say < 10 employees. Skip all the on-site licensing, pay a per-seat fee per month, lock and load. Is this precis correct? Arthur On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins < darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote: > Arthur, > > Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. > > Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an > Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version > controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync > 2010 has been a game changer for them. > > Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' > to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and > money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage > and back up). > > They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE > does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. > Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more > licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I > am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits > on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the > stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! > > Cheers > Darryl. > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 21 18:43:15 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:43:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?time_to_retire_=3F?= Message-ID: <20111121174315.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.c614d4a3a8.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> so in a pinch there's still room for one more good access developer in PNG? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? From: "Stuart McLachlan" Date: Mon, November 21, 2011 3:01 pm To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will be for quite a few years to come. At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before my Access skills are ready for retirement. -- Stuart On 21 Nov 2011 at 10:06, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 19:08:39 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 01:08:39 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD460@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yep, that is pretty much how it works. You can download a trial version which free and is good for 30 days - the trial version includes 10 licenses, after 30 days you get an email asking if you want to continue the service. If you do then you only pay for as many licenses as you want / need. You can add more or less over time and they just adjust your monthly bill. There was a bit of stuffing around getting the site setup and operational initially (at least for Australia). You need to have a registered business with ABN (sort of a business ID number and an existing website) Your requirements may differ as you are in a different part of the world. I needed to play around with DNS settings on with our existing ISP setup page - and also do some manual configs to Lync and the outlook desktop client to make it work. Most of this stuff I found out via Google and the online help forums. Once you know where to look it is all fairly painless - of course I say this now with 20/20 hindsight ;) That said, you don't need to use an outlook desktop client if you don't want, you can do it all in the browser if you want. The exchange side of things is seriously good. Having the ability to instantly update all the members of your team and share calendars painlessly is a huge jump for a lot of these folks. It is ideal for small working teams of people. One business I set this up for is 7 people and they often work remotely. Having the ability to share calendars, use the 'presence' detection and Lync to meet up and share tools and desktops has been really useful for them. Much better than trying to get one of them to assist the other one over the phone alone. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 10:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? Since you've got experience, and since I haven't investigated all the options, am I correct in assuming that an O365 license, regardless of number of people, involves the latest (Office, SharePoint, SQL) in a participatory mechanism of some sort (e.g. per seat or something)? As proprietor of a mostly-retired company, with only me as employee, this is very appealing, and I think this could work very inexpensively for clients having say < 10 employees. Skip all the on-site licensing, pay a per-seat fee per month, lock and load. Is this precis correct? Arthur On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins < darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote: > Arthur, > > Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. > > Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an > Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version > controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like > Lync > 2010 has been a game changer for them. > > Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' > to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of > time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus > secure docs storage and back up). > > They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower > (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. > Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more > licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I > am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are > limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but > for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! > > Cheers > Darryl. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 21 20:13:01 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:13:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> True, but as we had mentioned in the past, where is that "silver bullet" to Web Development ? Still is and always has been a messy, sausage-making-like ordeal to create web apps. > There are many web opportunities out there. > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is > only > going to be more demand. > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver > your > apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, > on > every device. > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. From john at winhaven.net Mon Nov 21 20:44:50 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:44:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> Message-ID: <035501cca8c0$b48dc980$1da95c80$@winhaven.net> LOL - great description of it! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 8:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? True, but as we had mentioned in the past, where is that "silver bullet" to Web Development ? Still is and always has been a messy, sausage-making-like ordeal to create web apps. > There are many web opportunities out there. > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is > only going to be more demand. > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver > your apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of > companies, on every device. > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 21 21:06:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:06:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). LOL. that's the understatement of the year. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/21/2011 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Arthur, > > Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. > > Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. > > Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). > > They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! > > Cheers > Darryl. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 21:32:33 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 03:32:33 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD5C3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Heh, for sure. But given that a lot of small businesses use Excel sheets as their principal database for everything - moving that data into to sharepoint lists usually is fairly simple and brings a lot more data integrity than keeping 5 different versions of Excel as their 'master' database, or I have seen many times "Budget_Final_Final_FinalV2 (Dave's version).xls" - ... Oh the horror, the horror.... Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 2:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). LOL. that's the understatement of the year. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/21/2011 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Arthur, > > Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. > > Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. > > Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). > > They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! > > Cheers > Darryl. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 21 21:35:15 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:35:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> Message-ID: <36945057-B595-495B-8FB8-65EAA25991B7@phulse.com> You should consider HTML5. It's been slow coming but it's starting to pick up some real steam now. Even Microsoft is going head on with HTML5. Just attended a Microsoft talk on responsive web design. It really opened my eyes in terms of that we are reaching a tipping point where hype meets reality (and business). Also, for all you microsofties interested in this, check out Microsofts tool Webmatrix. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-21, at 6:13 PM, "Mark Simms" wrote: > True, but as we had mentioned in the past, where is that "silver bullet" to > Web Development ? > Still is and always has been a messy, sausage-making-like ordeal to create > web apps. > >> There are many web opportunities out there. >> I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is >> only >> going to be more demand. >> You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver >> your >> apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, >> on >> every device. >> I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the >> internet. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 21 22:11:50 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:11:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <36945057-B595-495B-8FB8-65EAA25991B7@phulse.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> <36945057-B595-495B-8FB8-65EAA25991B7@phulse.com> Message-ID: <000001cca8cc$dc73e7c0$955bb740$@net> Webmatrix and Expression Web were always on my radar. I'll bet BOTH are gonna change dramatically now with HTML-5. There may be hope yet !!! RAD for the web....Bring it on. > You should consider HTML5. It's been slow coming but it's starting to > pick up some real steam now. Even Microsoft is going head on with > HTML5. Just attended a Microsoft talk on responsive web design. It > really opened my eyes in terms of that we are reaching a tipping point > where hype meets reality (and business). > > Also, for all you microsofties interested in this, check out Microsofts > tool Webmatrix. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 21 22:16:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:16:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ECB2237.4070208@colbyconsulting.com> >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse That was the understatement of the year. No idea about the brilliance part. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/21/2011 10:06 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff > small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > LOL. that's the understatement of the year. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/21/2011 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: >> Arthur, >> >> Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. >> >> Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook >> and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication >> tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. >> >> Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to >> understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier >> comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). >> >> They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better >> though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, >> all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I >> am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists >> as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). >> >> And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 21 22:17:42 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:17:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD5C3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD5C3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ECB2266.4060407@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, I understand completely. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/21/2011 10:32 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Heh, for sure. But given that a lot of small businesses use Excel sheets as their principal database for everything - moving that data into to sharepoint lists usually is fairly simple and brings a lot more data integrity than keeping 5 different versions of Excel as their 'master' database, or I have seen many times "Budget_Final_Final_FinalV2 (Dave's version).xls" - ... Oh the horror, the horror.... > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 2:06 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? > > >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > LOL. that's the understatement of the year. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/21/2011 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: >> Arthur, >> >> Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. >> >> Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. >> >> Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). >> >> They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). >> >> And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 22 02:55:17 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:55:17 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?time_to_retire_=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Hi Arthur -- > There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example... Do you mean LINQ in general or just LINQ for SQL or ADO.NET EF LINQ? LINQ in general - I mean using it in your C#/VB.NET coding - is a very powerful development tool/programming language concept. LINQ is a "green light" for full scale functional programming (FP) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_programming) within general purpose programming language as C#/VB.NET are. Have a look: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericwhite/archive/2006/10/04/fp-tutorial.aspx LINQ is very close to "ordinary SQL" - in fact they both have common roots in Propositional Calculus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_calculus) , Set Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory), Relational Algebra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_algebra) etc. One can treat LINQ as OOSQL ("first generation") come true. Using LINQ may change your (and mine) "old habits" of practicing mainly "data centric" application development - read more about "Model First" approach here: http://www.devart.com/entitydeveloper/model-first.html http://ianhammondcooper.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/being-ignorant-with-linq-to-sql/ All in all "LINQ (to SQL)" and FP seems to be very good tools for the one considering to retire but still keeping doing custom development as the more one gets familiar with that tools the more short, the more streamlined and effective their programming would become, the least support costs would be "tied" to that coding - and so one can keep competitive for a long time :) "Ordinary" programming has usually a lot of routine (plumbing) work and LINQ and FP allow to minimize that work by making your coding working on higher levels of abstraction and "getting things done" quicker... Parallel LINQ (PLINQ) and FP are also the base for "automagic scaling" of your programming solutions as pure functional coding can be automatically scheduled to be executed in parallel on many processor cores or - in the future(?) even - computer systems or all over "computing clouds" and (P)LINQ expressions can be also interpreted in parallel, and that "parallelization" will be done by .NET Dynamic Language Runtime (DLR) automatically... Recap: LINQ and FP alone would let to keep one's brain cells active solving programming tasks "cool way", or I can even say "lazy but cool way" meaning "lazy evaluation" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy_evaluation) - the core of LINQ expressions evaluation strategy implemented in .NET DLR... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Consider also using OpenXML (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML) and Open XML SDK 2.0 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb448854.aspx, http://openxmldeveloper.org/) as a good substitute for many tasks usually done using MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint Automation, as well as Excel Calculation Services http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepoint-server-help/introduction-to-excel-services-and-excel-web-access-HA010105476.aspx and Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx which should be available for Office 365 developers... 22 ?????? 2011, 02:10 ?? Arthur Fuller : > I agree with you, Stuart, but I am also diving into C# 2010 in a serious > way. There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example, but that's due to an > old and perhaps obsolete bias that "Everything the db can do, the db should > do." I don't like putting db logic in the front end; it sticks in this old > craw; but maybe I will learn that this old adage is nearly as obsolete as I > am :) > > A. > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will > > be for quite a few > > years to come. > > > > At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before > > my Access skills are > > ready for retirement. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Tue Nov 22 07:36:04 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:36:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email1 8.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <4ECBA544.7020800@torchlake.com> Shamil, Thank you for all this good information. I'm not quite ready to dig into it all, but I will be one of these days, and I'm glad to have these resources. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/22/2011 3:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Arthur -- > >> There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example... > Do you mean LINQ in general or just LINQ for SQL or ADO.NET EF LINQ? > > LINQ in general - I mean using it in your C#/VB.NET coding - is a very powerful development tool/programming language concept. > LINQ is a "green light" for full scale functional programming (FP) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_programming) within general purpose programming language as C#/VB.NET are. > Have a look: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericwhite/archive/2006/10/04/fp-tutorial.aspx > > LINQ is very close to "ordinary SQL" - in fact they both have common roots in Propositional Calculus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_calculus) , Set Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory), Relational Algebra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_algebra) etc. One can treat LINQ as OOSQL ("first generation") come true. > > Using LINQ may change your (and mine) "old habits" of practicing mainly "data centric" application development - read more about "Model First" approach here: > > http://www.devart.com/entitydeveloper/model-first.html > > http://ianhammondcooper.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/being-ignorant-with-linq-to-sql/ > > All in all "LINQ (to SQL)" and FP seems to be very good tools for the one considering to retire but still keeping doing custom development as the more one gets familiar with that tools the more short, the more streamlined and effective their programming would become, the least support costs would be "tied" to that coding - and so one can keep competitive for a long time :) > > "Ordinary" programming has usually a lot of routine (plumbing) work and LINQ and FP allow to minimize that work by making your coding working on higher levels of abstraction and "getting things done" quicker... > > Parallel LINQ (PLINQ) and FP are also the base for "automagic scaling" of your programming solutions as pure functional coding can be automatically scheduled to be executed in parallel on many processor cores or - in the future(?) even - computer systems or all over "computing clouds" and (P)LINQ expressions can be also interpreted in parallel, and that "parallelization" will be done by .NET Dynamic Language Runtime (DLR) automatically... > > Recap: LINQ and FP alone would let to keep one's brain cells active solving programming tasks "cool way", or I can even say "lazy but cool way" meaning "lazy evaluation" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy_evaluation) - the core of LINQ expressions evaluation strategy implemented in .NET DLR... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > P.S. Consider also using OpenXML (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML) and Open XML SDK 2.0 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb448854.aspx, http://openxmldeveloper.org/) as a good substitute for many tasks usually done using MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint Automation, as well as > > Excel Calculation Services > http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepoint-server-help/introduction-to-excel-services-and-excel-web-access-HA010105476.aspx > > and > > Word Automation Services > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx > > which should be available for Office 365 developers... > > 22 ?????? 2011, 02:10 ?? Arthur Fuller: >> I agree with you, Stuart, but I am also diving into C# 2010 in a serious >> way. There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example, but that's due to an >> old and perhaps obsolete bias that "Everything the db can do, the db should >> do." I don't like putting db logic in the front end; it sticks in this old >> craw; but maybe I will learn that this old adage is nearly as obsolete as I >> am :) >> >> A. >> >> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Stuart McLachlanwrote: >> >>> Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will >>> be for quite a few >>> years to come. >>> >>> At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before >>> my Access skills are >>> ready for retirement. >>> >>> -- >>> Stuart >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From edzedz at comcast.net Tue Nov 22 09:33:38 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:33:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: W7 SP1 breaking ADO Message-ID: <005a01cca92c$1bd4fc60$5bdea8c0@edz1> There are also problems with DAO and large query statements. Along with the AppHangB1 error have been getting AppCrash errors for VBA programming that works fine on W2K and XP OS systems. The MSFT social media seems unable to find a solution. ================================================================ Description: A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows. Problem signature: Problem Event Name: AppHangB1 Application Name: MSACCESS.EXE Application Version: 11.0.8166.0 Application Timestamp: 46437912 Hang Signature: 8308 Hang Type: 0 OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48 Locale ID: 1033 Additional Hang Signature 1: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 2: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 3: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Additional Hang Signature 4: 8308 Additional Hang Signature 5: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 6: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 7: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Read our privacy statement online: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=104288&clcid=0x0409 If the online privacy statement is not available, please read our privacy statement offline: C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt ================================================================ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Yep, it is ADO and for all platforms (not just VBA). They have released some fixes already for other platforms, but not VBA yet. In short any code with ADO that is compiled on a W7 SP1 machine will fail if it is run on any other OS (except another W7 SP1 machine). If you get your users to recompile the code on their (non SP1) machine it will work again fine, but clearly that is not a practical solution for most users. The threads are worth a read, they are not so long and have good info on both the background of the problem, MS's surprise and dithering and possible solutions. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Darryl, Thanks for the info and the links. I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to figure this out. We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. Sincerely, Brad PS. This problem only affects ADO, right? not DAO? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 09:38:56 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:38:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: <005a01cca92c$1bd4fc60$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <005a01cca92c$1bd4fc60$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: It seems that the only fix is to remove SP1. A. On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > There are also problems with DAO and large query statements. > > Along with the AppHangB1 error have been getting AppCrash errors > for VBA programming that works fine on W2K and XP OS systems. > I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to > figure this out. > > We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the > short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. > > From edzedz at comcast.net Tue Nov 22 10:23:27 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:23:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DAO breaking as well in W7 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001cca933$1116b9b0$5bdea8c0@edz1> There are also problems with DAO and large query statements. Along with the AppHangB1 error have been getting AppCrash errors for VBA programming that works fine on W2K and XP OS systems. The MSFT social media seems unable to find a solution. ================================================================ Description: A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows. Problem signature: Problem Event Name: AppHangB1 Application Name: MSACCESS.EXE Application Version: 11.0.8166.0 Application Timestamp: 46437912 Hang Signature: 8308 Hang Type: 0 OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48 Locale ID: 1033 Additional Hang Signature 1: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 2: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 3: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Additional Hang Signature 4: 8308 Additional Hang Signature 5: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 6: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 7: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Read our privacy statement online: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=104288&clcid=0x0409 If the online privacy statement is not available, please read our privacy statement offline: C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt ================================================================ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Darryl, Thanks for the info and the links. I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to figure this out. We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. Sincerely, Brad PS. This problem only affects ADO, right? not DAO? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Tue Nov 22 10:50:56 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:50:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4ECBD2F0.8000404@torchlake.com> Me too! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/18/2011 6:43 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I know the feeling so well: > > http://xkcd.com/979/ > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Nov 22 10:51:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:51:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <76C0FC092A534DE38B2FE72A9B7753DB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: This collection of links is very interesting but I will have to put it aside for now, as it would be easy to get lost for days, in the subject. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? Hi Arthur -- > There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example... Do you mean LINQ in general or just LINQ for SQL or ADO.NET EF LINQ? LINQ in general - I mean using it in your C#/VB.NET coding - is a very powerful development tool/programming language concept. LINQ is a "green light" for full scale functional programming (FP) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_programming) within general purpose programming language as C#/VB.NET are. Have a look: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericwhite/archive/2006/10/04/fp-tutorial.aspx LINQ is very close to "ordinary SQL" - in fact they both have common roots in Propositional Calculus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_calculus) , Set Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory), Relational Algebra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_algebra) etc. One can treat LINQ as OOSQL ("first generation") come true. Using LINQ may change your (and mine) "old habits" of practicing mainly "data centric" application development - read more about "Model First" approach here: http://www.devart.com/entitydeveloper/model-first.html http://ianhammondcooper.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/being-ignorant-with-linq-to -sql/ All in all "LINQ (to SQL)" and FP seems to be very good tools for the one considering to retire but still keeping doing custom development as the more one gets familiar with that tools the more short, the more streamlined and effective their programming would become, the least support costs would be "tied" to that coding - and so one can keep competitive for a long time :) "Ordinary" programming has usually a lot of routine (plumbing) work and LINQ and FP allow to minimize that work by making your coding working on higher levels of abstraction and "getting things done" quicker... Parallel LINQ (PLINQ) and FP are also the base for "automagic scaling" of your programming solutions as pure functional coding can be automatically scheduled to be executed in parallel on many processor cores or - in the future(?) even - computer systems or all over "computing clouds" and (P)LINQ expressions can be also interpreted in parallel, and that "parallelization" will be done by .NET Dynamic Language Runtime (DLR) automatically... Recap: LINQ and FP alone would let to keep one's brain cells active solving programming tasks "cool way", or I can even say "lazy but cool way" meaning "lazy evaluation" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy_evaluation) - the core of LINQ expressions evaluation strategy implemented in .NET DLR... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Consider also using OpenXML (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML) and Open XML SDK 2.0 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb448854.aspx, http://openxmldeveloper.org/) as a good substitute for many tasks usually done using MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint Automation, as well as Excel Calculation Services http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepoint-server-help/introduction-to-exc el-services-and-excel-web-access-HA010105476.aspx and Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx which should be available for Office 365 developers... 22 ?????? 2011, 02:10 ?? Arthur Fuller : > I agree with you, Stuart, but I am also diving into C# 2010 in a serious > way. There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example, but that's due to an > old and perhaps obsolete bias that "Everything the db can do, the db should > do." I don't like putting db logic in the front end; it sticks in this old > craw; but maybe I will learn that this old adage is nearly as obsolete as I > am :) > > A. > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will > > be for quite a few > > years to come. > > > > At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before > > my Access skills are > > ready for retirement. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeff.developer at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 10:57:33 2011 From: jeff.developer at gmail.com (Jeff B) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:57:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives Message-ID: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com> Hello Listers! Quick question, I went to look through the archives to see if there was anything about working with Access and QuickBooks, but it seems that all of our archives are unavailable? Do we have any archives available right now? Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Nov 22 12:03:41 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:03:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives In-Reply-To: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com> References: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <023601cca941$112be700$3383b500$@winhaven.net> Because of some technical issues, we're re-doing the archives right now. Its taking a while. Please be patient. Meanwhile maybe you could ask the list your particular questions. I know that the Quickbooks API has changed considerably over the last few years. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff B Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:58 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Archives Hello Listers! Quick question, I went to look through the archives to see if there was anything about working with Access and QuickBooks, but it seems that all of our archives are unavailable? Do we have any archives available right now? Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeff.developer at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 12:38:52 2011 From: jeff.developer at gmail.com (Jeff B) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:38:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives In-Reply-To: <023601cca941$112be700$3383b500$@winhaven.net> References: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com> <023601cca941$112be700$3383b500$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <006701cca945$fbf9c730$f3ed5590$@gmail.com> Thanks John. I thought we had had a discussion about QuickBooks, that?s why I was looking for the archives. I think I found my solution! It seems that QuickBooks now offers a read only ODBC driver as part of its product. If you look a little farther, they share a link for QODBC read/write driver. The read/write is available through FLEXquarters.com for a nominal fee. Seeing as I have been using ODBC with Access and SQL Server, it seems like the natural way to go. So, I have found my solution! Thanks again! Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Archives Because of some technical issues, we're re-doing the archives right now. Its taking a while. Please be patient. Meanwhile maybe you could ask the list your particular questions. I know that the Quickbooks API has changed considerably over the last few years. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff B Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:58 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Archives Hello Listers! Quick question, I went to look through the archives to see if there was anything about working with Access and QuickBooks, but it seems that all of our archives are unavailable? Do we have any archives available right now? Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 22 14:35:58 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:35:58 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties Message-ID: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to their server using the Data Link Properties: If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I do not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these and the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not one of these. My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. In the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. Any suggestions? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 14:57:24 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:57:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login behaves the same there? Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the database in question? It does sound like permissions to me. D On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson wrote: > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to > their server using the Data Link Properties: > > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in the > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the database I > want. > > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I do > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these and > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not one > of these. > > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. In > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. > > Any suggestions? > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 22 15:39:54 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:39:54 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login >behaves the same there? Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this what you mean? >Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the >database in question? I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't seem to have helped. >It does sound like permissions to me. > >D > >On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to > > their server using the Data Link Properties: > > > > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in the > > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the database I > > want. > > > > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the > > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I do > > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these and > > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not one > > of these. > > > > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I > > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role > > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. In > > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have > > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database > > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 22 16:32:13 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:32:13 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] FW: W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <005a01cca92c$1bd4fc60$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DDD32@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Pretty much at this stage for anyone using VBA, that is it and that is what I did. Of course for some folks that is not an option. Two examples I can think of are 1: folks on corporate networks who get the OS updates pushed out to them, and folks who recently purchased W7 that has SP1 already built in. I got lucky, the rollback to W7 Release version worked and all was good again. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, 23 November 2011 2:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: W7 SP1 breaking ADO It seems that the only fix is to remove SP1. A. On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > There are also problems with DAO and large query statements. > > Along with the AppHangB1 error have been getting AppCrash errors for > VBA programming that works fine on W2K and XP OS systems. > I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to > figure this out. > > We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the > short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 16:43:40 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:43:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? >From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I can click on the Office button. >From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server and then any database on that chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing everything logged in as the troubled user? David On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson wrote: > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login >> behaves the same there? >> > > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this > what you mean? > > > > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the >> database in question? >> > > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't > seem to have helped. > > > It does sound like permissions to me. >> >> D >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson > >wrote: >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: >> > >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in >> the >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the >> database I >> > want. >> > >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I >> do >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these >> and >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not >> one >> > of these. >> > >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. >> In >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. >> > >> > Any suggestions? >> > >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > David Emerson >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 22 18:30:09 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:30:09 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I can >click on the Office button. > From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server and >then any database on that >chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing >everything logged in as the troubled user? Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. >David > > >On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login > >> behaves the same there? > >> > > > > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view > > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this > > what you mean? > > > > > > > > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the > >> database in question? > >> > > > > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't > > seem to have helped. > > > > > > It does sound like permissions to me. > >> > >> D > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson >> >wrote: > >> > >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to > >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > >> > > >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in > >> the > >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the > >> database I > >> > want. > >> > > >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the > >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I > >> do > >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these > >> and > >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not > >> one > >> > of these. > >> > > >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I > >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role > >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. > >> In > >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have > >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database > >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. > >> > > >> > Any suggestions? > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > > >> > David Emerson > >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> > Wellington, New Zealand From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 22 21:05:24 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:05:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hyper-V VM oddness Message-ID: <4ECC62F4.7050201@colbyconsulting.com> I decided to try moving my VMs to Azul server, my "big" server. I figured with 16 cores and 64 gigs it could handle the load. The sole purpose of one of the VMs is to host a third party application. When this app is running the VM says that the single core I assign to it is pegged, 100% utilization. However none of the host machine cores shows any significant usage, and the total server usage bounces between 0 and 1%. So I'm wondering what the heck is going on? The application on the dedicated VM server was processing about 8-9 million records per hour on a 3.5 GHz AMD quad core, and on that host machine one of the cores would appear to be maxed out and the server would say 25% usage. On the mongo server the CPUs are 2 GHz 8 core and no core says it is busy and I'm only getting about 4 million records / hour. I expected one core to max and the total to say 1/16th total usage. Any ideas why this VM says it is using 100% of its virtual CPU but the host server says it is not busy at all? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 23 10:35:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:35:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL Message-ID: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> I run three VMs pretty much 24/7 here at my home office, one which I call vmDev which is my development machine, another is my Accuzip third party software vm and one final machine runs SQL Server Express for Access clients coming in over the internet. I had a dedicated server for VMs which I actually just upgraded to a new motherboard, DDR3 ram etc in preparation for the new AM3+ bulldozer processor. Given the weak performance of the new processor I am hanging out waiting for the next rev / price drops before taking that plunge. what I did do however is move all three of those VMs off onto my 16 core SQL Server machine. The only VM which truly needs much horsepower is the Accuzip VM and my performance dropped by half when I did the move. Whereas I was getting about 8-9 million records / hour on the dedicated VM Server, on Azul SQL Server machine I am lucky to get 4.5 million per hour. The difference is mostly just the core speed. The Magney-Cours server chips that I could afford run at 2.0 ghz and have ddr3 1300 memory (registered and ECC), whereas the new motherboard has DDR 1600 memory and a quad core Phenom lightly overclocked to 3.3 ghz. The additional clock speed and memory speed apparently makes for significant additional horsepower. Anyway, I have decided to take the speed hit on the Accuzip VM in order to clean off what was my dedicated VM server and use that for a MySQL machine. As servers go this machine is somewhat wimpy with 4 cores and 16 gigs of memory but for learning MySQL it should suffice. There has been a bit of interest expressed in MySQL, with some list members already using it and others trying to learn it. I count myself in the trying to learn it crowd. My intention is to go with MariaDB. Since I have Hyper-V running on this machine I am thinking about running mariaDB itself on a VM which would allow me to move the VM should I decide to keep it. I have to say I am not having a lot of luck getting a Linux distro running on a Hyper-V VM, but if I can make that happen that would be my preference. If anyone out there has experience getting a linux distro running in a Hyper-V VM running MariaDB let me know. I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 11:28:19 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:28:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? Still sounds like privileges to me. On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson wrote: > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? >> > > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > > > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I can >> click on the Office button. >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server and >> then any database on that >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing >> everything logged in as the troubled user? >> > > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > > > David >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson >> wrote: >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login >> >> behaves the same there? >> >> >> > >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this >> > what you mean? >> > >> > >> > >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the >> >> database in question? >> >> >> > >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't >> > seem to have helped. >> > >> > >> > It does sound like permissions to me. >> >> >> >> D >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson > >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link >> to >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: >> >> > >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in >> >> the >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the >> >> database I >> >> > want. >> >> > >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. >> I >> >> do >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to >> these >> >> and >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is >> not >> >> one >> >> > of these. >> >> > >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. >> >> In >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. >> >> > >> >> > Any suggestions? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Regards >> >> > >> >> > David Emerson >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Nov 23 14:37:48 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:37:48 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? > >Still sounds like privileges to me. > > > >On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? > >> > > > > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > > > > > > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I can > >> click on the Office button. > >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server and > >> then any database on that > >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing > >> everything logged in as the troubled user? > >> > > > > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > > > > > > David > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson > >> wrote: > >> > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> > > >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login > >> >> behaves the same there? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view > >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this > >> > what you mean? > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the > >> >> database in question? > >> >> > >> > > >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't > >> > seem to have helped. > >> > > >> > > >> > It does sound like permissions to me. > >> >> > >> >> D > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson >> >> >wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link > >> to > >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > >> >> > > >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in > >> >> the > >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the > >> >> database I > >> >> > want. > >> >> > > >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the > >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. > >> I > >> >> do > >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to > >> these > >> >> and > >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is > >> not > >> >> one > >> >> > of these. > >> >> > > >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I > >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role > >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. > >> >> In > >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have > >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database > >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. > >> >> > > >> >> > Any suggestions? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Regards > >> >> > > >> >> > David Emerson > >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 14:59:11 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:59:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: >From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer I can choose Server Type : Database Engine ServerName: YourServerName Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to Windows Authentication) Login: limitedUser password: xxxxx It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know he doesn't have rights to, it will give me an error. If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson wrote: > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. > > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? >> >> Still sounds like privileges to me. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson >> wrote: >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? >> >> >> > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. >> > >> > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I >> can >> >> click on the Office button. >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server >> and >> >> then any database on that >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? >> >> >> > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. >> > >> > >> > David >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your >> login >> >> >> behaves the same there? >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can >> view >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is >> this >> >> > what you mean? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the >> >> >> database in question? >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. >> Doesn't >> >> > seem to have helped. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. >> >> >> >> >> >> D >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson < >> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz >> >> >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then >> link >> >> to >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the >> databases in >> >> >> the >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the >> >> >> database I >> >> >> > want. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select >> the >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and >> tempdb. >> >> I >> >> >> do >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to >> >> these >> >> >> and >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is >> >> not >> >> >> one >> >> >> > of these. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL >> Server. I >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database >> role >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User >> Mapping. >> >> >> In >> >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I >> have >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the >> database >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" >> dropdown. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Regards >> >> >> > >> >> >> > David Emerson >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com> databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 23 15:29:07 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 07:29:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, Message-ID: <4ECD65A3.3640.4C8B3A43@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> IN SSMS 2005, while logged in as an administrator: Go to ServerName - Security - Logins and select the login in question. Right Click and select Properties Under "Select a Page", select User Mapping Make sure the databases that you want the Login to be able to access are ticked in the top right hand panel and the correct roles are set in the bottom panel. -- Stuart On 23 Nov 2011 at 12:59, David McAfee wrote: > From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer > > I can choose > Server Type : Database Engine > ServerName: YourServerName > Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to > Windows Authentication) > Login: limitedUser > password: xxxxx > > It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know he doesn't > have rights to, it will give me an error. > > If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. > > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows > > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as > > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. > > > > > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? > >> > >> Still sounds like privileges to me. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson > >> wrote: > >> > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> > > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > >> > > >> > > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I > >> can > >> >> click on the Office button. > >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server > >> and > >> >> then any database on that > >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing > >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > >> > > >> > > >> > David > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your > >> login > >> >> >> behaves the same there? > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can > >> view > >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is > >> this > >> >> > what you mean? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the > >> >> >> database in question? > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. > >> Doesn't > >> >> > seem to have helped. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> D > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson < > >> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz > >> >> >> >wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then > >> link > >> >> to > >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the > >> databases in > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the > >> >> >> database I > >> >> >> > want. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select > >> the > >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and > >> tempdb. > >> >> I > >> >> >> do > >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to > >> >> these > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is > >> >> not > >> >> >> one > >> >> >> > of these. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL > >> Server. I > >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database > >> role > >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User > >> Mapping. > >> >> >> In > >> >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I > >> have > >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the > >> database > >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" > >> dropdown. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Regards > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > David Emerson > >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand > >> >> > >> > > >> > -- > >> > AccessD mailing list > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> > >> > > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com >> databaseadvisors.com > > >> > >> > > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Nov 23 15:38:08 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:38:08 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111123213842.RXMI28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I tried that and couldn't even log in as any user. There seems to be other problems with the profile the Administrator set up for me so I will wait until he gets them sorted out before trying again. Thanks for your suggestions. David At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer > >I can choose > Server Type : Database Engine > ServerName: YourServerName > Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to >Windows Authentication) > Login: limitedUser > password: xxxxx > >It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know he doesn't >have rights to, it will give me an error. > >If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. > > > > >On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows > > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as > > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. > > > > > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? > >> > >> Still sounds like privileges to me. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson > >> wrote: > >> > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> > > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > >> > > >> > > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the > moment, I can > >> >> click on the Office button. > >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose > any server and > >> >> then any database on that > >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing > >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > >> > > >> > > >> > David > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see > if your login > >> >> >> behaves the same there? > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 > R2). I can view > >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings > etc. Is this > >> >> > what you mean? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied > access to the database in question? > >> >> > > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't > >> >> > seem to have helped. > >> >> > > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> D > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson > wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's > network then link to > >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the > databases in the > >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect > to the database I > >> >> >> > want. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in > the "Select the > >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb > and tempdb. I do > >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can > link to these and > >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database > I want is not one > >> >> >> > of these. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in > SQL Server. I > >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all > database role > >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in > User Mapping. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > In the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all > rolls. Status shows I have > >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still > the database > >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the > Server" dropdown. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Regards > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > David Emerson > >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Nov 23 15:40:39 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:40:39 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <4ECD65A3.3640.4C8B3A43@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4ECD65A3.3640.4C8B3A43@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20111123214110.HTDC18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Done that to no avail. Will wait until the administrator can sort out my profile issues before wasting more time on this problem. David At 24/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >IN SSMS 2005, while logged in as an administrator: > >Go to ServerName - Security - Logins and select the login in question. >Right Click and select Properties >Under "Select a Page", select User Mapping >Make sure the databases that you want the Login to be able to >access are ticked in the top >right hand panel and the correct roles are set in the bottom panel. > >-- >Stuart > >On 23 Nov 2011 at 12:59, David McAfee wrote: > > > From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer > > > > I can choose > > Server Type : Database Engine > > ServerName: YourServerName > > Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to > > Windows Authentication) > > Login: limitedUser > > password: xxxxx > > > > It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know he doesn't > > have rights to, it will give me an error. > > > > If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson > wrote: > > > > > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows > > > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as > > > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. > > > > > > > > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > > > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? > > >> > > >> Still sounds like privileges to me. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > > >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at > the moment, I > > >> can > > >> >> click on the Office button. > > >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server > > >> and > > >> >> then any database on that > > >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you > are not seeing > > >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > > >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > > >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > David > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson > > >> >> wrote: > > >> >> > > >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > >> >> > > > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your > > >> login > > >> >> >> behaves the same there? > > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can > > >> view > > >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is > > >> this > > >> >> > what you mean? > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied > access to the > > >> >> >> database in question? > > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. > > >> Doesn't > > >> >> > seem to have helped. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> D > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson < > > >> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz > > >> >> >> >wrote: > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then > > >> link > > >> >> to > > >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the > > >> databases in > > >> >> >> the > > >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the > > >> >> >> database I > > >> >> >> > want. > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in > the "Select > > >> the > > >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and > > >> tempdb. > > >> >> I > > >> >> >> do > > >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to > > >> >> these > > >> >> >> and > > >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the > database I want is > > >> >> not > > >> >> >> one > > >> >> >> > of these. > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL > > >> Server. I > > >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database > > >> role > > >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User > > >> Mapping. > > >> >> >> In > > >> >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I > > >> have > > >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the > > >> database > > >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" > > >> dropdown. > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Regards > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > David Emerson > > >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > > >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > AccessD mailing list > > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com > >> databaseadvisors.com > > > >> > > >> > > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul_lifopro at cox.net Wed Nov 23 15:45:55 2011 From: paul_lifopro at cox.net (paul_lifopro) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:45:55 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives In-Reply-To: <006701cca945$fbf9c730$f3ed5590$@gmail.com> References: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com><023601cca941$112be700$3383b500$@winhaven.net> <006701cca945$fbf9c730$f3ed5590$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <032401ccaa29$47ccd8d0$6d01a8c0@lplaptop2> Jeff, I use the read only QODBC driver you mentioned. The only weird thing about it is that I have found is that the Quickbooks system has to be open when you hit the tables with Access. At least that is what I found out. Otherwise it gives you an error. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Jeff B [mailto:jeff.developer at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Archives Thanks John. I thought we had had a discussion about QuickBooks, that?s why I was looking for the archives. I think I found my solution! It seems that QuickBooks now offers a read only ODBC driver as part of its product. If you look a little farther, they share a link for QODBC read/write driver. The read/write is available through FLEXquarters.com for a nominal fee. Seeing as I have been using ODBC with Access and SQL Server, it seems like the natural way to go. So, I have found my solution! Thanks again! Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Archives Because of some technical issues, we're re-doing the archives right now. Its taking a while. Please be patient. Meanwhile maybe you could ask the list your particular questions. I know that the Quickbooks API has changed considerably over the last few years. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff B Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:58 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Archives Hello Listers! Quick question, I went to look through the archives to see if there was anything about working with Access and QuickBooks, but it seems that all of our archives are unavailable? Do we have any archives available right now? Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 23 16:23:14 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:23:14 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> "I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject." Count me as 'interested'. Your posts are usually highly educational John and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share your experiences with the rest of us. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 3:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL I run three VMs pretty much 24/7 here at my home office, one which I call vmDev which is my development machine, another is my Accuzip third party software vm and one final machine runs SQL Server Express for Access clients coming in over the internet. I had a dedicated server for VMs which I actually just upgraded to a new motherboard, DDR3 ram etc in preparation for the new AM3+ bulldozer processor. Given the weak performance of the new processor I am hanging out waiting for the next rev / price drops before taking that plunge. what I did do however is move all three of those VMs off onto my 16 core SQL Server machine. The only VM which truly needs much horsepower is the Accuzip VM and my performance dropped by half when I did the move. Whereas I was getting about 8-9 million records / hour on the dedicated VM Server, on Azul SQL Server machine I am lucky to get 4.5 million per hour. The difference is mostly just the core speed. The Magney-Cours server chips that I could afford run at 2.0 ghz and have ddr3 1300 memory (registered and ECC), whereas the new motherboard has DDR 1600 memory and a quad core Phenom lightly overclocked to 3.3 ghz. The additional clock speed and memory speed apparently makes for significant additional horsepower. Anyway, I have decided to take the speed hit on the Accuzip VM in order to clean off what was my dedicated VM server and use that for a MySQL machine. As servers go this machine is somewhat wimpy with 4 cores and 16 gigs of memory but for learning MySQL it should suffice. There has been a bit of interest expressed in MySQL, with some list members already using it and others trying to learn it. I count myself in the trying to learn it crowd. My intention is to go with MariaDB. Since I have Hyper-V running on this machine I am thinking about running mariaDB itself on a VM which would allow me to move the VM should I decide to keep it. I have to say I am not having a lot of luck getting a Linux distro running on a Hyper-V VM, but if I can make that happen that would be my preference. If anyone out there has experience getting a linux distro running in a Hyper-V VM running MariaDB let me know. I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Nov 23 16:34:36 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:34:36 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111123214110.HTDC18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.c o.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4ECD65A3.3640.4C8B3A43@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <20111123214110.HTDC18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111123223506.VRXM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Finally solved the problem. I got the administrator to delete my login totally from SQL and recreate it. Now I am in. Thanks David (and Stuart) for your help. At 24/11/2011, David Emerson wrote: >Done that to no avail. Will wait until the administrator can sort >out my profile issues before wasting more time on this problem. > >David > >At 24/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>IN SSMS 2005, while logged in as an administrator: >> >>Go to ServerName - Security - Logins and select the login in question. >>Right Click and select Properties >>Under "Select a Page", select User Mapping >>Make sure the databases that you want the Login to be able to >>access are ticked in the top >>right hand panel and the correct roles are set in the bottom panel. >> >>-- >>Stuart >> >>On 23 Nov 2011 at 12:59, David McAfee wrote: >> >> > From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer >> > >> > I can choose >> > Server Type : Database Engine >> > ServerName: YourServerName >> > Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to >> > Windows Authentication) >> > Login: limitedUser >> > password: xxxxx >> > >> > It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know >> he doesn't >> > have rights to, it will give me an error. >> > >> > If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson >> wrote: >> > >> > > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows >> > > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as >> > > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. >> > > >> > > >> > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > > >> > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? >> > >> >> > >> Still sounds like privileges to me. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson >> > >> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as >> > >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at >> the moment, I >> > >> can >> > >> >> click on the Office button. >> > >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose >> any server >> > >> and >> > >> >> then any database on that >> > >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you >> are not seeing >> > >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using >> another user's >> > >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the >> > >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > David >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson >> >> > >> >> wrote: >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your >> > >> login >> > >> >> >> behaves the same there? >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 >> R2). I can >> > >> view >> > >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role >> settings etc. Is >> > >> this >> > >> >> > what you mean? >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied >> access to the >> > >> >> >> database in question? >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. >> > >> Doesn't >> > >> >> > seem to have helped. >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> D >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson < >> > >> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz >> > >> >> >> >wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then >> > >> link >> > >> >> to >> > >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the >> > >> databases in >> > >> >> >> the >> > >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the >> > >> >> >> database I >> > >> >> >> > want. >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in >> the "Select >> > >> the >> > >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and >> > >> tempdb. >> > >> >> I >> > >> >> >> do >> > >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I >> can link to >> > >> >> these >> > >> >> >> and >> > >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the >> database I want is >> > >> >> not >> > >> >> >> one >> > >> >> >> > of these. >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL >> > >> Server. I >> > >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set >> all database >> > >> role >> > >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User >> > >> Mapping. >> > >> >> >> In >> > >> >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all >> rolls. Status shows I >> > >> have >> > >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the >> > >> database >> > >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" >> > >> dropdown. >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > Regards >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > David Emerson >> > >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> > >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 19:21:04 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 20:21:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Anyone and everyone interested in the subject of MySQL and MariaDB is invited to visit our site (www.artfulsoftware.com), from which you can download a bunch of chapters of our book plus all the source code for free. Beyond that, there is a nominal charge for everything, including free access to everything we add or revise or update during the next year. So far, I confess, there is nothing up yet that is specific to MariaDB, but this is a subject of concern to Peter and me, if only because we would rather sleep with Monty than Larry (metaphorically speaking of course :). Soon shall come additional chapters attempting to describe the buy-out, the momentary allegiance, and the subsequent divorce; and from then on we shall concentrate on MariaDB, leaving the old (except the obsolete) text intact, and building upon it as we follow Monty et. al. into the new world of MariaDB. This is not meant to disparage entirely Oracle's efforts in the MySQL realm. The documentation, to take only one example, has improved, and they have added some useful code as well. But our allegiance remains with Monty. This is an open invitation to all you readers interested in exploring this frontier, so that we can improve our documentation of same. We (Peter Brawley and I) shall try to answer your questions, and we are especially interested in the hurdles you find difficult when switching from MS SQL and other databases, entering the admittedly different world of MySQL and MariaDB. Since the original model was Oracle, I'm guessing that Oracle users will have the path of least resistance, but otoh if they're already into Oracle then why backtrack, except to avoid the huge licensing costs? Not that that's insufficient reason. But I digress. What I'm interested in is the Access and MS SQL user-place, and helping in those arenas. Arthur On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Darryl Collins < darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote: > "I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the > subject." > > Count me as 'interested'. Your posts are usually highly educational John > and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share your experiences > with the rest of us. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 23 19:38:01 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:38:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <5C019DD8-9855-4AF5-B8D6-4C3ABF380EC9@phulse.com> Hi John, I am just forwarding some links I sent someone else the other day regarding the same issue: Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/WindowsServerHyperV CentOS: http://www.hyper-v-mart.com/Howto/Install_CentOS_5_VM_Step_by_Step.aspx Ubuntu: http://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/961.aspx My personal preference is Debian (for more reasons than I can possibly list in a short email) and installing software is pretty easy. To install MySQL, all it takes is to write (as root user on the command line): # apt-get install mysql-server You may choose to do some additional configuration after that point. You will find those in the file: /etc/mysql/my.cnf Then, to start or stop the MySQL server, type either: # /etc/init.d/mysql start or # /etc/init.d/mysql stop ======================== Of course, this is for MySQL, not for MariaDB. Unfortunately, MariaDB has not yet been included into the default software repositories for Debian (or any of the others, I imagine), but you can install the packages from MariaDBs website. I personally recommend, though, that you set it up in your software repositories, as then you will be informed when there are updates and you can use the systems update mechanism to upgrade/patch things for you, rather than having to do it all manually. It's not hard to add Monty's repositories. If you follow this (http://downloads.askmonty.org/mariadb/repositories/), it will give you some lines to add to the file: /etc/apt/sources.list Once you add then, run the command: # apt-get update This will refresh the repository database. Then search for software package name: # apt-cache search mariadb This will list software packages with their name and description. Use that name with the following command: # apt-get install {name} Most likely it will be: #apt-get install mariadb Pretty trivial. - Hans On 2011-11-23, at 2:23 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > "I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject." > > Count me as 'interested'. Your posts are usually highly educational John and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share your experiences with the rest of us. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 3:35 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL > > I run three VMs pretty much 24/7 here at my home office, one which I call vmDev which is my development machine, another is my Accuzip third party software vm and one final machine runs SQL Server Express for Access clients coming in over the internet. I had a dedicated server for VMs which I actually just upgraded to a new motherboard, DDR3 ram etc in preparation for the new AM3+ bulldozer processor. Given the weak performance of the new processor I am hanging out waiting for the next rev / price drops before taking that plunge. > > what I did do however is move all three of those VMs off onto my 16 core SQL Server machine. The only VM which truly needs much horsepower is the Accuzip VM and my performance dropped by half when I did the move. Whereas I was getting about 8-9 million records / hour on the dedicated VM Server, on Azul SQL Server machine I am lucky to get 4.5 million per hour. The difference is mostly just the core speed. The Magney-Cours server chips that I could afford run at 2.0 ghz and have ddr3 1300 memory (registered and ECC), whereas the new motherboard has DDR 1600 memory and a quad core Phenom lightly overclocked to 3.3 ghz. The additional clock speed and memory speed apparently makes for significant additional horsepower. > > Anyway, I have decided to take the speed hit on the Accuzip VM in order to clean off what was my dedicated VM server and use that for a MySQL machine. As servers go this machine is somewhat wimpy with 4 cores and 16 gigs of memory but for learning MySQL it should suffice. > > There has been a bit of interest expressed in MySQL, with some list members already using it and others trying to learn it. I count myself in the trying to learn it crowd. > > My intention is to go with MariaDB. Since I have Hyper-V running on this machine I am thinking about running mariaDB itself on a VM which would allow me to move the VM should I decide to keep it. > I have to say I am not having a lot of luck getting a Linux distro running on a Hyper-V VM, but if I can make that happen that would be my preference. > > If anyone out there has experience getting a linux distro running in a Hyper-V VM running MariaDB let me know. > > I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject. > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 23 20:13:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 21:13:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> I have done some reading about MariaDB and how it is supposed to be a drop in replacement for MySQL. It is fascinating to me the whole process of merging code changes from everyone. Way over my head at this point but interesting none the less. As Oracle updates MySQL some parts of their stuff are apparently being integrated "backwards" into MariaDb, and things that the open source community are adding which Oracle refuses to use are being integrated into MariaDB. Supposedly the best of both worlds but how do they do that? On that note, I found this the other day: http://openlife.cc/blogs/2010/november/leaving-monty-program-and-mariadb Anyway from my reading of the whole thing, for folks wanting all the good stuff, The MariaDb fork is the road we need to travel, until such time as that is sold and the process starts all over. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/23/2011 8:21 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > Anyone and everyone interested in the subject of MySQL and MariaDB is > invited to visit our site (www.artfulsoftware.com), from which you can > download a bunch of chapters of our book plus all the source code for free. > Beyond that, there is a nominal charge for everything, including free > access to everything we add or revise or update during the next year. > > So far, I confess, there is nothing up yet that is specific to MariaDB, but > this is a subject of concern to Peter and me, if only because we would > rather sleep with Monty than Larry (metaphorically speaking of course :). > Soon shall come additional chapters attempting to describe the buy-out, the > momentary allegiance, and the subsequent divorce; and from then on we shall > concentrate on MariaDB, leaving the old (except the obsolete) text intact, > and building upon it as we follow Monty et. al. into the new world of > MariaDB. > > > This is not meant to disparage entirely Oracle's efforts in the MySQL > realm. The documentation, to take only one example, has improved, and they > have added some useful code as well. But our allegiance remains with Monty. > > This is an open invitation to all you readers interested in exploring this > frontier, so that we can improve our documentation of same. We (Peter > Brawley and I) shall try to answer your questions, and we are especially > interested in the hurdles you find difficult when switching from MS SQL and > other databases, entering the admittedly different world of MySQL and > MariaDB. Since the original model was Oracle, I'm guessing that Oracle > users will have the path of least resistance, but otoh if they're already > into Oracle then why backtrack, except to avoid the huge licensing costs? > Not that that's insufficient reason. But I digress. What I'm interested in > is the Access and MS SQL user-place, and helping in those arenas. > > Arthur > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Darryl Collins< > darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote: > >> "I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the >> subject." >> >> Count me as 'interested'. Your posts are usually highly educational John >> and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share your experiences >> with the rest of us. >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. >> >> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Nov 24 08:37:56 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:37:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I doubt that Monty will sell MariaDB, for two reasons: 1) he made enough money from selling MySQL to Larry to last him a few decades; 2) once bitten by the corporate sharks, it's doubtful you'll find him swimming again. Arthur On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:13 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Anyway from my reading of the whole thing, for folks wanting all the good > stuff, The MariaDb fork is the road we need to travel, until such time as > that is sold and the process starts all over. > > John W. Colby > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Thu Nov 24 08:52:56 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:52:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. Thanks for sharing. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > > > zzle/> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz > zle/ > > Rocky > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Nov 24 09:34:02 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 07:34:02 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Also, he doesn't have any more daughters to name the next database by. :) - Hans On 2011-11-24, at 6:37 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I doubt that Monty will sell MariaDB, for two reasons: 1) he made enough > money from selling MySQL to Larry to last him a few decades; 2) once bitten > by the corporate sharks, it's doubtful you'll find him swimming again. > > Arthur > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:13 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> Anyway from my reading of the whole thing, for folks wanting all the good >> stuff, The MariaDb fork is the road we need to travel, until such time as >> that is sold and the process starts all over. >> >> John W. Colby >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 24 11:54:09 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:54:09 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <8C8D533449CB492CB01C17DBACE8B3D5@creativesystemdesigns.com> I believe some people can not be bought and Monty is probably one of them. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL I doubt that Monty will sell MariaDB, for two reasons: 1) he made enough money from selling MySQL to Larry to last him a few decades; 2) once bitten by the corporate sharks, it's doubtful you'll find him swimming again. Arthur On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:13 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Anyway from my reading of the whole thing, for folks wanting all the good > stuff, The MariaDb fork is the road we need to travel, until such time as > that is sold and the process starts all over. > > John W. Colby > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 24 11:55:11 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:55:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Will we live that long? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. Thanks for sharing. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > > > zzle/> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz > zle/ > > Rocky > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Thu Nov 24 12:07:46 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:07:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007><4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Will we live that long? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the > challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to > stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. > Thanks for sharing. > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. >> >> >> > > zzle/> >> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz >> zle/ >> >> Rocky >> From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 24 12:26:01 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:26:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007><4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com><121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Message-ID: So far, so good, eh? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:08 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Will we live that long? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the > challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to > stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. > Thanks for sharing. > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. >> >> >> > est-pu >> zzle/> >> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-harde > st-puz >> zle/ >> >> Rocky >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Thu Nov 24 16:41:59 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:41:59 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE352@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Indeed, I have passed this on myself to a few people excess capacity in both brain power and spare time - lucky bugger ;) good on them though, all of them deserve it. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, 25 November 2011 1:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. Thanks for sharing. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > > > est-pu > zzle/> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-harde > st-puz > zle/ > > Rocky > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 24 19:38:11 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:38:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. Browse sourceforge.net sometime. When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first page: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 years, than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. At least in the USA. Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant Technologies, etc. Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. From vbacreations at gmail.com Thu Nov 24 21:15:14 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:15:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Message-ID: When I clicked link says Page Lost On Nov 24, 2011 1:27 PM, "Rocky Smolin" wrote: > So far, so good, eh? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Will we live that long? > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > > Fields > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > > > Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the > > challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to > > stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. > > Thanks for sharing. > > T > > > > Tina Norris Fields > > tinanfields at torchlake.com > > 231-322-2787 > > > > > > On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > >> > >> > >> > > > est-pu > >> zzle/> > >> > > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-harde > > st-puz > >> zle/ > >> > >> Rocky > >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Thu Nov 24 21:26:04 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 03:26:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE5B9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> It is because the original post didn't constrain the link text with << >>, so it is broken on the word wrap. Try: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson Sent: Friday, 25 November 2011 2:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' When I clicked link says Page Lost On Nov 24, 2011 1:27 PM, "Rocky Smolin" wrote: > So far, so good, eh? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Will we live that long? > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina > > Norris Fields > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > > > Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the > > challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to > > stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. > > Thanks for sharing. > > T > > > > Tina Norris Fields > > tinanfields at torchlake.com > > 231-322-2787 > > > > > > On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > >> > >> > >> > > > rd > > est-pu > >> zzle/> > >> > > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-har > > de > > st-puz > >> zle/ > >> > >> Rocky > >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 24 21:48:40 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:48:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> Message-ID: <4ECF1018.5020706@colbyconsulting.com> I hear you. OTOH there are success stories including Linux itself. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/24/2011 8:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. > This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. > > Browse sourceforge.net sometime. > When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first > page: > http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ > 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! > > There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 > years, > than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. > > Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. > At least in the USA. > Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant > Technologies, etc. > > Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... > Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. > > My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 24 22:04:33 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:04:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECF1018.5020706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com>, <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net>, <4ECF1018.5020706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ECF13D1.27064.531B7266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Just a few of the sourceforge projects I use quite regularly: VLC Player, Gimp, Ghostscript, VirtualDub, Inkscape, Audacity, PDFCreator, TightVNC, AngryIPScanner -- Stuart On 24 Nov 2011 at 22:48, jwcolby wrote: > I hear you. OTOH there are success stories including Linux itself. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/24/2011 8:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > > My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. > > This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. > > > > Browse sourceforge.net sometime. > > When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first > > page: > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ > > 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! > > > > There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 > > years, > > than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. > > > > Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. > > At least in the USA. > > Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant > > Technologies, etc. > > > > Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... > > Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. > > > > My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 24 23:24:05 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:24:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> Message-ID: <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> Some application go and some stay. We have to look no further than Google, Microsoft, Adobe or Oracle to see how many applications they have bailed on, in even the last year. That is the nature of the business. We can look at other applications like Linux, MySQL, Apache, MS Word, Windows and hundreds more and these ones have survived and have become part of the computer infrastructure. MariaDB is MySQL, same designer, same code. I have been using DBDesigner 4 for about 8 years and the creators are long gone. It is still great at building MS SQL and MySQL schemas from graphics. Interesting to note that the "ta-lib" set of tools are been redesigned as of May 2011, but by a different company, this time with a GNU license. Just like MS Access, it is not dead and people will be using it for years even if Microsoft abandons it all together. Which might not be a bad thing as then some unrestricted developers could Open Source it, rebuild the application, with C# (RonR, F#, C++) instead of VB, translator from VB to C#, full web interface and with a DB BE that would even make Oracle shutter. My thought is do not worry, do your research, just pick some nice tools or applications that does what you need and then abandon it when it doesn't. There is always another great application coming along. OTOH, just like the song say, "...know when to hold, know when to fold, know when to walk away, know when to run..." Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 5:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. Browse sourceforge.net sometime. When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first page: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 years, than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. At least in the USA. Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant Technologies, etc. Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 24 23:26:22 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:26:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECF13D1.27064.531B7266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <4ECF1018.5020706@colbyconsulting.com> <4ECF13D1.27064.531B7266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: All absolute excellent products and you have just touched the surface. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 8:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL Just a few of the sourceforge projects I use quite regularly: VLC Player, Gimp, Ghostscript, VirtualDub, Inkscape, Audacity, PDFCreator, TightVNC, AngryIPScanner -- Stuart On 24 Nov 2011 at 22:48, jwcolby wrote: > I hear you. OTOH there are success stories including Linux itself. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/24/2011 8:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > > My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. > > This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. > > > > Browse sourceforge.net sometime. > > When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first > > page: > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ > > 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! > > > > There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 > > years, > > than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. > > > > Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. > > At least in the USA. > > Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant > > Technologies, etc. > > > > Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... > > Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. > > > > My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pedro at plex.nl Fri Nov 25 09:53:59 2011 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:53:59 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Access and Word import Message-ID: <201111250853.pAP8rx5P028738@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Group, I have a MS-Word file with data that is given at the end of this mail. I would like to select out the number T10-00008 and 5 positions after the words "Radicaliteit:" en "Diff:", with a script or macro and save these in Access or in a txt file for importing in Access. The textfile looks like "T10-00008";"plus ";"+++ " "T10-00014";"negat ";"++ " or in Access like: Number Radi Diff T10-00008 plus +++ T10-00014 negat ++ Thanks Pedro ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** T10-00008 2010-01-04 pn: 00000000, gb: ............................ CONCLUSIE: Patient met tumor. Radicaliteit: plus , ......... Diff: +++ ....... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** T10-00014 ..................etc CONCLUSIE: Algemene malaise. Radicaliteit: negatief , ......... Diff: ++ ....... From marksimms at verizon.net Fri Nov 25 07:44:47 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:44:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> Someone said MARIADB is the same source code as MYSQL ? I find it hard to believe that greedy Larry Ellison made that kind of deal with the originators of MYSQL. It's not like him to permit competition !! Larry loves to not just "level the playing field", but to destroy it. From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Nov 25 08:51:45 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 06:51:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> Message-ID: Mark, MySQL is released under the GPL v2. Oracle purchased Suns assets with this understanding (and likewise, Sun purchased MySQL AB knowingly accepting the terms of the license), so Oracle couldn't lock up the code even if they wanted to. There are things they can do, like provide proprietary extensions and they could even just remove download links to the source code (or kill the project altogether), but it is fully within the rights of anyone to fork the code and do with it whatever they want legally. Fortunately, Oracle seems to be somewhat accepting of their situation for the time being. - Hans On 2011-11-25, at 5:44 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Someone said MARIADB is the same source code as MYSQL ? > > > I find it hard to believe that greedy Larry Ellison made that kind of deal > with the originators of MYSQL. > It's not like him to permit competition !! Larry loves to not just "level > the playing field", but to destroy it. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 25 09:22:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:22:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> Message-ID: <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> > Someone said MARIADB is the same source code as MYSQL ? MariaDB is the same source code base, taken from MySQL. Take what I say with a heaping handful of salt but my understanding is that the license for an open source project states something like - You may take this source base. If you modify any of this base code you must offer the changes back to the community. You may however add entirely new code for functionality that does not exist in the source base, and if you do you do not have to offer that back to the community. I am not intimately familiar with the history (Perhaps Arthur can step up here) but it seems that Sun was the "originator of" the source base. When they made any modifications of any kind including major new enhancements, they were adding those mods to the source base and they were available under the open source license. Oracle bought Sun. Oracle decided to hold onto major new enhancements and not offer them back to the community. Thus Oracle is building MySQL editions for sale which use the code base plus their enhancements. MariaDB took the code base and "forked it" and started adding major new enhancements which are kept in the open source community. From what I can tell, because it is in the public domain, Oracle can if they wish take the enhancements that MariaDB makes and add those into the base that they make available for free, and because that is in their "for sale" version they can use those enhancements in their "for sale" versions. But we will never see their "for sale" enhancements without paying their licensing fees. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/25/2011 8:44 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Someone said MARIADB is the same source code as MYSQL ? > > > I find it hard to believe that greedy Larry Ellison made that kind of deal > with the originators of MYSQL. > It's not like him to permit competition !! Larry loves to not just "level > the playing field", but to destroy it. > > > From marksimms at verizon.net Fri Nov 25 11:34:53 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:34:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> Wow, let get this crazy GPL stuff straight: Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them into their version and give them away OR.... It can even sell them ? Again, I guess I really must understand that in the open source software business, the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Nov 25 12:13:14 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:13:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> Message-ID: > Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them > into their version and give them away OR?. It can even sell them ? Technically, you can, but only as a redistribution price and you are bound by terms of the GPL to also distribute the source code along with it. You cannot "sell the software" as in "selling the rights to use it". That is not permissible, since they do not own the rights to the MariaDB source code. > the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and, MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? That's right. Also, a lot of open source businesses are supported by means of funding by different companies that depend on their products. And, on occasion, those businesses then get snapped up by larger organisations (ie. Oracle, IBM, etc). On the flip side, if the project is very successful in the community and the owners prefer to donate their project to the greater good of the community, what can also happen is that they donate the code to the protection of someone like the Apache Software Foundation (ie. like Hadoop, Apache web server, Cassandra DB, etc). - Hans On 2011-11-25, at 9:34 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Wow, let get this crazy GPL stuff straight: > > Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them into > their version and give them away OR.... > It can even sell them ? > > Again, I guess I really must understand that in the open source software > business, the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and > MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 25 12:20:19 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 04:20:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com>, <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> Message-ID: <4ECFDC63.14826.20349C6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Take a look at http://www.mysql.com/products/community/ and http://www.mysql.com/products/ Oracle sell support and add-ons. Any MariaDB enhancements would have to be incorporated in the core Community Edition, not in one of their proprietary add-ons. -- Stuart. On 25 Nov 2011 at 12:34, Mark Simms wrote: > Wow, let get this crazy GPL stuff straight: > > Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them into > their version and give them away OR.... > It can even sell them ? > > Again, I guess I really must understand that in the open source software > business, the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and > MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Fri Nov 25 12:39:13 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:39:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007><4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com><121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesys temdesigns.com><4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <4ECFE0D1.7090304@torchlake.com> Umm - yes, so far. I woke up this morning and I'm still here. Must be a good thing. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/24/2011 1:26 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > So far, so good, eh? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Will we live that long? >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris >> Fields >> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' >> >> Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the >> challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to >> stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. >> Thanks for sharing. >> T >> >> Tina Norris Fields >> tinanfields at torchlake.com >> 231-322-2787 >> >> >> On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. >>> >>> >>> >> > est-pu >>> zzle/> >>> >> http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-harde >> st-puz >>> zle/ >>> >>> Rocky >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Nov 25 12:43:10 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:43:10 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> Message-ID: That is correct. One of Microsoft's very reliable revenue streams is product support. ;-) A company may need a piece of software to run their business and they will just hire a software developer to add some enhancements for their purposes and then hire an integrator to assemble a group of packages. They will of course know any improvements dealing directly with the core will have to be added back to the license but they will have a complete set of source code at the end, which is an ultimate form of business security. All these transactions of course make money, the software continues to evolve and improve at a much more rapid pace than proprietary designed products. (You only have to look at how long IE6 languished and how fast such products like FF evolved. To MS's credit, they have worked very hard to keep pace but do not have the number of programmers and they are just viewing the support of IE as nothing more than the cost of doing business.) The business is more like a code rental where the renters are encouraged to make improvements, than a product purchase, so the renters are no longer stuck to the whims of a proprietary system and continuous licensing fees. I for one, have probably spent a lot of money on donating to various Open Source products, 10, 25 and sometimes a hundred, over the years. If I like the software, I like to encourage it. To add a political note; Open Source software can be viewed as a blend of socialized software and free-enterprise, both in their purest forms. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 9:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL Wow, let get this crazy GPL stuff straight: Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them into their version and give them away OR.... It can even sell them ? Again, I guess I really must understand that in the open source software business, the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 25 14:50:01 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:50:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How many frames per second can the human eye see? Message-ID: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 25 16:52:14 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 08:52:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How many frames per second can the human eye see? In-Reply-To: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED01C1E.25389.2FC3ACD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Great stuff - thought provoking. -- Stuart On 25 Nov 2011 at 15:50, jwcolby wrote: > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 26 08:28:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:28:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman Message-ID: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeWindowsBetter.aspx From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat Nov 26 10:05:21 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:05:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How many frames per second can the human eye see? In-Reply-To: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED10E41.4010504@torchlake.com> Interesting. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/25/2011 3:50 PM, jwcolby wrote: > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 10:22:39 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:22:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How many frames per second can the human eye see? In-Reply-To: <4ED10E41.4010504@torchlake.com> References: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED10E41.4010504@torchlake.com> Message-ID: I'm not seeing the link or whatever, but am curious to know more. Makes me think of the seemingly-backwards-turning stagecoach wheels in old Westerns. A. On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Tina Norris Fields < tinanfields at torchlake.com> wrote: > Interesting. > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > > On 11/25/2011 3:50 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 10:38:24 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:38:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting up a blog. I love to write. That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog service sites ? I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ And it appears Wordpress is the best. However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to purchase the software and templates, etc. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > indowsBetter.aspx > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 10:41:29 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:41:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] blog censorship In-Reply-To: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <003c01ccac5a$3fdbdf30$bf939d90$@net> http://ncacblog.wordpress.com/ Yep, there's even a wordpress blog about blog censorship !! From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 11:18:46 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:18:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9F9D0EDD24B84A089305018C286D10CC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeWindow sBetter.aspx -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 11:37:00 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:37:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> Message-ID: Hi Mark: Wordpress is definitely the best as far as I have seen. A Wordpress site was set up for my wife so she could organize a large project that covered a number of countries. It was very successful but not the traditional use for the site as just a Blog. Wordpress is written in PHP, not that a user has to know but for the more adventuresome individual there are thousands of hacks that can allow you to do anything...and if you are or what to learn PHP, a massive mature language, you can make Wordpress do anything. Many people view Wordpress blogs that don't even know it as the site has been so tricked up. The only thing that would be really nice is if you could access a database but I am sure someone has figured out how. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Blogging When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting up a blog. I love to write. That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog service sites ? I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ And it appears Wordpress is the best. However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to purchase the software and templates, etc. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > indowsBetter.aspx > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 12:20:14 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:20:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> Message-ID: I use WordPress for my blog and have been extremely happy with it. They've recently added the ability to implement social media sharing to various site by simply turning on the ones you want. The dashboard is busy but less complicated than it looks. The one thing I haven't figured out yet (haven't tried to hard either!) is how to back link it to my website. It's on the website already as a tab, but if you go straight in through http://charlottefoust.wordpress.com/ there's no direct link to the site. Charlotte Foust On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting > up a blog. > I love to write. > That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog > service sites ? > I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ > > > And it appears Wordpress is the best. > However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. > Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? > In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? > Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to > purchase > the software and templates, etc. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > > Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > > > > indowsBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Sat Nov 26 13:36:37 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:36:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. Here is what I have picked up so far. Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to ?evil doers? who may try to get at it. There are several ?remote control? products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on ?peripheral? topics. Thanks, Brad From garykjos at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 13:56:10 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:56:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I use remote desktop via a secure VPN encrypted connection. Not sure what is done on the server end to allow this to work but we use Cisco VPN Client software We each have security key fob type things that display a changing number and we have to enter that number along with our login info to make it work. GK On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. > > I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. ?We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. > > I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). > > I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). > > I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. > > Here is what I have picked up so far. > > Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to ?evil doers? who may try to get at it. > > There are several ?remote control? products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. > > As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. > > I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on ?peripheral? topics. > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Sat Nov 26 15:18:30 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:18:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <00ce01ccac80$f271aff0$d7550fd0$@cox.net> I have a client who's IT folks set up a VPN and I use remote desktop to work on that system. For all others I use Techinline.com. It costs $ but seems fast and works all over the world. They have several purchase programs. We don't use much so buy 20 sessions at a time. A session is good for a day. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. Here is what I have picked up so far. Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to "evil doers" who may try to get at it. There are several "remote control" products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on "peripheral" topics. Thanks, Brad From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat Nov 26 15:27:01 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:27:01 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A785A0@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> I remote to my desktop to get around cytrix which we are supposed to use. I also use vnc to remote to another system. Martin Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Brad Marks Sent: 26/11/2011 19:41 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. Here is what I have picked up so far. Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to ?evil doers? who may try to get at it. There are several ?remote control? products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on ?peripheral? topics. Thanks, Brad From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 16:25:40 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 17:25:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002601ccac8a$54d8f230$fe8ad690$@net> I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 26 18:02:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 19:02:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED17E1A.5060805@colbyconsulting.com> I use Hamachi to set up a Virtual Private Network. Only people that I allow can join the network. I join the network as a client and I set up the server side on the system I want to control. Voila, static IP. Hamachi can be disabled but most small shops do not know how nor for that matter that it even exists. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/26/2011 2:36 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. > > I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. > > I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). > > I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). > > I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. > > Here is what I have picked up so far. > > Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to ?evil doers? who may try to get at it. > > There are several ?remote control? products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. > > As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. > > I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on ?peripheral? topics. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 26 18:23:37 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:23:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <9F9D0EDD24B84A089305018C286D10CC@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <9F9D0EDD24B84A089305018C286D10CC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. It's great. On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeWindow > sBetter.aspx > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 26 18:35:05 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:35:05 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net>, Message-ID: <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> With Wordpress, you can either create a new blog on the Wordpress site or download it and install it on your own web server. All you need to run it on any hosted website is PHP 5.2.4+ and MySQL 5.0+ support. They are almost universal. Since it uses MySQL for the BE, you can access the databse with phpMyAdmin which should come with any hosting package that offers PHP/MySQL. If you want to host it on your own server, You just need to install WAMP or XAMP and then Wordpress. If you set it up on a hosting service, the only real potential censorship is the hosting organisation closing your site down. If you set it up on your own server, the only potential censorship is your Connection Provider cutting you off completely. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:37, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Mark: > > Wordpress is definitely the best as far as I have seen. A Wordpress site was > set up for my wife so she could organize a large project that covered a > number of countries. It was very successful but not the traditional use for > the site as just a Blog. > > Wordpress is written in PHP, not that a user has to know but for the more > adventuresome individual there are thousands of hacks that can allow you to > do anything...and if you are or what to learn PHP, a massive mature > language, you can make Wordpress do anything. Many people view Wordpress > blogs that don't even know it as the site has been so tricked up. > > The only thing that would be really nice is if you could access a database > but I am sure someone has figured out how. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:38 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Blogging > > When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting > up a blog. > I love to write. > That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog > service sites ? > I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ > And it appears Wordpress is the best. > However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. > Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? > In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? > Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to purchase > the software and templates, etc. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > > Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > > indowsBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 19:15:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 17:15:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <4ED17E1A.5060805@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED17E1A.5060805@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <2FC223ECE659421AAEB320B52C09E62C@creativesystemdesigns.com> I agree the Hamachi is the securest and simplest VPN to setup and then whatever remote desktop software you want to use is just fine as its security is irrelevant. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 4:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access I use Hamachi to set up a Virtual Private Network. Only people that I allow can join the network. I join the network as a client and I set up the server side on the system I want to control. Voila, static IP. Hamachi can be disabled but most small shops do not know how nor for that matter that it even exists. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/26/2011 2:36 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. > > I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. > > I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). > > I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). > > I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. > > Here is what I have picked up so far. > > Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to "evil doers" who may try to get at it. > > There are several "remote control" products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. > > As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. > > I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on "peripheral" topics. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 19:19:29 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 17:19:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <5FC737C6594A47ECBFEF1A94AC765A56@creativesystemdesigns.com> Moreover, there you have the best way...a little more work than a having WP host it but unlimited options. I guess most of the DBA members have their own servers. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 4:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blogging With Wordpress, you can either create a new blog on the Wordpress site or download it and install it on your own web server. All you need to run it on any hosted website is PHP 5.2.4+ and MySQL 5.0+ support. They are almost universal. Since it uses MySQL for the BE, you can access the databse with phpMyAdmin which should come with any hosting package that offers PHP/MySQL. If you want to host it on your own server, You just need to install WAMP or XAMP and then Wordpress. If you set it up on a hosting service, the only real potential censorship is the hosting organisation closing your site down. If you set it up on your own server, the only potential censorship is your Connection Provider cutting you off completely. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:37, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Mark: > > Wordpress is definitely the best as far as I have seen. A Wordpress site was > set up for my wife so she could organize a large project that covered a > number of countries. It was very successful but not the traditional use for > the site as just a Blog. > > Wordpress is written in PHP, not that a user has to know but for the more > adventuresome individual there are thousands of hacks that can allow you to > do anything...and if you are or what to learn PHP, a massive mature > language, you can make Wordpress do anything. Many people view Wordpress > blogs that don't even know it as the site has been so tricked up. > > The only thing that would be really nice is if you could access a database > but I am sure someone has figured out how. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:38 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Blogging > > When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting > up a blog. > I love to write. > That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog > service sites ? > I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ > And it appears Wordpress is the best. > However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. > Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? > In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? > Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to purchase > the software and templates, etc. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > > Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > > indowsBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Nov 26 20:06:10 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 20:06:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <9F9D0EDD24B84A089305018C286D10CC@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I want them. Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. It's great. On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > Window > sBetter.aspx > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 26 20:24:46 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:24:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Nov 26 21:25:49 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:25:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel - at a 'small' price! Is it worth $9.95? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 22:08:22 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 23:08:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net>, <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001101ccacba$34c12730$9e437590$@net> Wow, thanks for that Stuart. Yes, and it is incredible that censorship is "THE ISSUE" surrounding BLOGGING. I had a funny feeling that would be the case....and I was proven 100% correct. If you guys haven't determined by now, I'm shortly moving into a new and "risqu?" area now.... far, far away from IT....relative to the core of my business at present. Still, I'll be using some of my IT talents to some degree...and that's THE good thing. Boy, is this a great American paraphrase or what ? : "Ya gotta do, what ya gotta do". And that, my friends, is my modus-operandi. I am right now on my final "stinker" contract (3 months, high pressure, low pay).... Not just one, but multiple agencies are now making money off of my talents... while "I do the work, and they make the money". It all ends in March 2012. After that, if all goes well, I am into a whole new world....and "so be it". And guys (and gals), this new world is simply crazy...with DEMAND.... something I have NOT witnessed in the past 5 years ! Unlike 15 years ago, I've never heard any recruiter or agency over the past 5 years say anything like: "wow, your talent is really in demand, you're really valuable". NOPE: None...Nada...Zippo..Zilch...Zed...Zero. The Indians simply LEVELED the IT contracting marketplace. I mean, it was NUCLEAR in it's effects ! In fact, recent interviews were actually DEMEANING to me. Yep, you bet...even in the good old USA. Bottomline: Employment Agencies....."rule the roost". They're in complete control. Someone on this fine list once said that "they?ve got an monopoly". INDEED they do. If you don't have the latest and greatest "in-demand" skills...you are completely worthless....a pathetic $40 or $50 bucks an hour....at most....no benefits. That's a net $20/hr gig essentially. Heck, many college grads are making more than that with no experience. Newly minted "PharmD's" are at $60/hr. The key to my new world is "fulfillment"....BUT that is easier said than done. To be successful, it will require tremendous "attention to detail". How many times have we all heard that ? And so, that becomes my new mission in life. Sorry if this has become a diatribe of sorts...I had some wine tonight...an excellent and rich Cabernet: Arrowood 2003, Sonoma County, CA. Whew, it "rocks". From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 26 22:30:01 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:30:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel - at > a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently > on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > > want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 22:52:11 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 23:52:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <005401ccacc0$5418ee00$fc4aca00$@gmail.com> Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as $19.95. I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be cycled through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different fences depending on the view selected. Is that possible? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 23:47:49 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:47:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <001101ccacba$34c12730$9e437590$@net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001101ccacba$34c12730$9e437590$@net> Message-ID: <31EE8F0063874009A8F60ADCB58126C7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Mark: Well, don't just leave us hanging, tell us what you are up to. I promise I will not follow you. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blogging Wow, thanks for that Stuart. Yes, and it is incredible that censorship is "THE ISSUE" surrounding BLOGGING. I had a funny feeling that would be the case....and I was proven 100% correct. If you guys haven't determined by now, I'm shortly moving into a new and "risqui" area now.... far, far away from IT....relative to the core of my business at present. Still, I'll be using some of my IT talents to some degree...and that's THE good thing. Boy, is this a great American paraphrase or what ? : "Ya gotta do, what ya gotta do". And that, my friends, is my modus-operandi. I am right now on my final "stinker" contract (3 months, high pressure, low pay).... Not just one, but multiple agencies are now making money off of my talents... while "I do the work, and they make the money". It all ends in March 2012. After that, if all goes well, I am into a whole new world....and "so be it". And guys (and gals), this new world is simply crazy...with DEMAND.... something I have NOT witnessed in the past 5 years ! Unlike 15 years ago, I've never heard any recruiter or agency over the past 5 years say anything like: "wow, your talent is really in demand, you're really valuable". NOPE: None...Nada...Zippo..Zilch...Zed...Zero. The Indians simply LEVELED the IT contracting marketplace. I mean, it was NUCLEAR in it's effects ! In fact, recent interviews were actually DEMEANING to me. Yep, you bet...even in the good old USA. Bottomline: Employment Agencies....."rule the roost". They're in complete control. Someone on this fine list once said that "theyve got an monopoly". INDEED they do. If you don't have the latest and greatest "in-demand" skills...you are completely worthless....a pathetic $40 or $50 bucks an hour....at most....no benefits. That's a net $20/hr gig essentially. Heck, many college grads are making more than that with no experience. Newly minted "PharmD's" are at $60/hr. The key to my new world is "fulfillment"....BUT that is easier said than done. To be successful, it will require tremendous "attention to detail". How many times have we all heard that ? And so, that becomes my new mission in life. Sorry if this has become a diatribe of sorts...I had some wine tonight...an excellent and rich Cabernet: Arrowood 2003, Sonoma County, CA. Whew, it "rocks". From vbacreations at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 23:47:59 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 00:47:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <005a01ccacc8$1f796d70$5e6c4850$@gmail.com> When I clicked BUY at 19.95, that is when it reduces the price... no other warning. So, thanks for the tip~! -----Original Message----- From: William Benson (VBACreations.Com) [mailto:vbacreations at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as $19.95. I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be cycled through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different fences depending on the view selected. Is that possible? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 00:05:45 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 16:05:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <005a01ccacc8$1f796d70$5e6c4850$@gmail.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <>, <005a01ccacc8$1f796d70$5e6c4850$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ED1D339.10234.9AF7F11@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> This page shows $19.95 in red and struck out with $9.95 in black beside it: http://www.stardock.com/products/ as does this page: http://www.stardock.com/products/fences/purchase.asp -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 0:47, William Benson (VBACreations. wrote: > When I clicked BUY at 19.95, that is when it reduces the price... no other > warning. So, thanks for the tip~! > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Benson (VBACreations.Com) [mailto:vbacreations at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as > $19.95. > > I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be cycled > through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different > fences depending on the view selected. > > Is that possible? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently > on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > > want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Sun Nov 27 00:10:05 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 01:10:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED1D339.10234.9AF7F11@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <005a01ccacc8$1f796d70$5e6c4850$@gmail.com> <4ED1D339.10234.9AF7F11@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Bought a gift copy for my client whose bday was last week. On Nov 27, 2011 1:07 AM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > This page shows $19.95 in red and struck out with $9.95 in black beside it: > > http://www.stardock.com/products/ > as does this page: > http://www.stardock.com/products/fences/purchase.asp > > > -- > Stuart > > On 27 Nov 2011 at 0:47, William Benson (VBACreations. wrote: > > > When I clicked BUY at 19.95, that is when it reduces the price... no > other > > warning. So, thanks for the tip~! > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: William Benson (VBACreations.Com) [mailto:vbacreations at gmail.com] > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:52 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as > > $19.95. > > > > I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be > cycled > > through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different > > fences depending on the view selected. > > > > Is that possible? > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently > > on "special" at > > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > the > > > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them > where I > > > want them. > > > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > > > Dan > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows > > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to > > it. > > > It's great. > > > > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > John W. Colby > > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > > > Window > > > > sBetter.aspx > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Nov 27 05:26:05 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:26:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Message-ID: Hi Brad and Mark It's more than just fine. It's excellent, and we set up the free version routinely on all workstations as my colleagues often work out of the house. Also, they often have dedicated workstations at clients where we install it too so these machines can be reached from our office (or home or other clients' locations). It can't be made easier to set up - takes a minute or so and works through any firewall and requires zero "special" things to be done. For more dedicated use, however, we do establish Remote Desktop to an in-house terminal server because of the local printing option. Some prefer TeamViewer which is excellent too. However, the free version is for "private use" only and we are reluctant to install such software for professional use. /gustav >>> marksimms at verizon.net 26-11-2011 23:25 >>> I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 09:27:59 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:27:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08EE19CB-844B-4186-B8A7-BCA64F8D1FA0@verizon.net> I find teamviewer simpler to use then lomein as I find their interface clumsy. Teamviewer is not cheap, but it's well worth the money. The way they license too is great for small shops. Jim Sent from my iPhone On Nov 27, 2011, at 6:26 AM, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Brad and Mark > > It's more than just fine. It's excellent, and we set up the free version routinely on all workstations as my colleagues often work out of the house. Also, they often have dedicated workstations at clients where we install it too so these machines can be reached from our office (or home or other clients' locations). > > It can't be made easier to set up - takes a minute or so and works through any firewall and requires zero "special" things to be done. > For more dedicated use, however, we do establish Remote Desktop to an in-house terminal server because of the local printing option. > > Some prefer TeamViewer which is excellent too. However, the free version is for "private use" only and we are reluctant to install such software for professional use. > > /gustav > > >>>> marksimms at verizon.net 26-11-2011 23:25 >>> > I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 09:39:51 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:39:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and installation. However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 09:50:36 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <31EE8F0063874009A8F60ADCB58126C7@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001101ccacba$34c12730$9e437590$@net> <31EE8F0063874009A8F60ADCB58126C7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <003601ccad1c$4eab23f0$ec016bd0$@net> > Well, don't just leave us hanging, tell us what you are up to. I > promise I will not follow you. ;-) I assembled a rough business plan....and now I am in the process of refining it. How ? By visiting my potential competition.... and scoring and ranking them. Yep, that's what the BLOG is going to do. I am most interested in getting independent feedback on the scores and verbal review from other customers. After all, one cannot really make a thorough assessment with only a single transaction. Sooooo.....Jim.... All in good time. From df.waters at comcast.net Sun Nov 27 10:10:04 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:10:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> <4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net> I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic features to be useful. So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > - at a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > them where I want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThat > > > Make > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Nov 27 10:39:39 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 08:39:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net><4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to do and don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, Computer, and drives shortcuts. Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets I use often right from the desktop in another. A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. Another fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm done working on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their folder on comp 2. A fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, Ghost, Lexmark Printer stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic features to be useful. So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > - at a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > them where I want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThat > > > Make > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Sun Nov 27 10:45:06 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:45:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access References: Message-ID: All, Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Gustav Brock Sent: Sun 11/27/2011 5:26 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Hi Brad and Mark It's more than just fine. It's excellent, and we set up the free version routinely on all workstations as my colleagues often work out of the house. Also, they often have dedicated workstations at clients where we install it too so these machines can be reached from our office (or home or other clients' locations). It can't be made easier to set up - takes a minute or so and works through any firewall and requires zero "special" things to be done. For more dedicated use, however, we do establish Remote Desktop to an in-house terminal server because of the local printing option. Some prefer TeamViewer which is excellent too. However, the free version is for "private use" only and we are reluctant to install such software for professional use. /gustav >>> marksimms at verizon.net 26-11-2011 23:25 >>> I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 10:54:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 11:54:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> References: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> Message-ID: <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very easy to use however. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." > > That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and > installation. > However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". > I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 10:57:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 11:57:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> Remote Desktop is tightly integrated with Windows. All the others are layered on top of Windows. Remote Desktop is indeed much much faster in most cases and I prefer RD whenever I can make that work. That is why I prefer Hamachi VPN when I can make that work. I have hard IPs and so I can use RD over Hamachi. Hamachi also allows you to browse network shares on the remote computer and even map network shares to local drive letters if you so desire. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 11:45 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. > > With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. > In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. > > Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? > > I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. > > Brad From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Nov 27 11:04:23 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 09:04:23 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Can you transfer files with remote desktop? I found that you can transfer files with Skype - very handy. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very easy to use however. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." > > That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and > installation. > However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". > I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sun Nov 27 11:22:19 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 11:22:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net><4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net> <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> Message-ID: <001801ccad29$1e64d210$5b2e7630$@comcast.net> I tried it for the first time yesterday. I wanted a fence which enclosed the shortcuts for all my customers' stuff. But within the fence the shortcuts kept 'auto-arranging' themselves, which mixed up the shortcut locations. I wanted each customer's shortcuts in a vertical column, but (for example) the fence would not let me have a column of 7 shortcuts and a column of 5 shortcuts - they kept rearranging to two columns of 6 shortcuts. I hope the pro version does let me put the shortcuts where I want them. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to do and don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, Computer, and drives shortcuts. Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets I use often right from the desktop in another. A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. Another fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm done working on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their folder on comp 2. A fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, Ghost, Lexmark Printer stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic features to be useful. So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > - at a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > them where I want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThat > > > Make > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Nov 27 11:37:54 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 09:37:54 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilitiesthat makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001801ccad29$1e64d210$5b2e7630$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net><4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net><15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> <001801ccad29$1e64d210$5b2e7630$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <60C88AD8710645D99FEE95AC508DCE83@HAL9007> How about two fences of 6 shortcuts? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilitiesthat makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I tried it for the first time yesterday. I wanted a fence which enclosed the shortcuts for all my customers' stuff. But within the fence the shortcuts kept 'auto-arranging' themselves, which mixed up the shortcut locations. I wanted each customer's shortcuts in a vertical column, but (for example) the fence would not let me have a column of 7 shortcuts and a column of 5 shortcuts - they kept rearranging to two columns of 6 shortcuts. I hope the pro version does let me put the shortcuts where I want them. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to do and don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, Computer, and drives shortcuts. Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets I use often right from the desktop in another. A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. Another fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm done working on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their folder on comp 2. A fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, Ghost, Lexmark Printer stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic features to be useful. So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > - at a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > them where I want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThat > > > Make > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 11:57:57 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:57:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0DD97455-0FDF-4932-8D0B-5490F9AAD5B4@verizon.net> That's not as true as you might think. All run on top of terminal service, but There are other protocols out there that can be used in place of RDP which are more efficient, such as Citrix's. Jim Sent from my iPhone On Nov 27, 2011, at 11:57 AM, jwcolby wrote: > Remote Desktop is tightly integrated with Windows. All the others are layered on top of Windows. Remote Desktop is indeed much much faster in most cases and I prefer RD whenever I can make that work. That is why I prefer Hamachi VPN when I can make that work. I have hard IPs and so I can use RD over Hamachi. Hamachi also allows you to browse network shares on the remote computer and even map network shares to local drive letters if you so desire. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 11:45 AM, Brad Marks wrote: >> All, >> >> Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. >> >> With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. >> In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. >> >> Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? >> >> I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. >> >> Brad > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 12:16:59 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 13:16:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED27E9B.4060704@colbyconsulting.com> I am not sure but RD only works over a VPN and with any vpn you can see and map remote shares. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 12:04 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Can you transfer files with remote desktop? > > I found that you can transfer files with Skype - very handy. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access > > And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very > easy to use however. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: >> Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." >> >> That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and >> installation. >> However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". >> I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Nov 27 12:44:01 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:44:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Message-ID: Hi Mark Nothing to be aware of. It offers this automatically the first time you access your account from a new machine, it is signed, and it's a simple Click-Next-Next install. >>> marksimms at verizon.net 27-11-2011 16:39 >>> Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and installation. However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Nov 27 12:54:31 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:54:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access Message-ID: Hi John No, you can let RDP through any network but only if the required ports are open. And that's exactly the trouble; if you are in control it is just to do it, but if some notwork guy is to be convinced he/she may be a show stopper. For good reasons you may say, because the default port of 3389 is one of those that scanners test so on a public network you should adjust RDP to use another port. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 27-11-2011 19:16 >>> I am not sure but RD only works over a VPN and with any vpn you can see and map remote shares. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 12:04 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Can you transfer files with remote desktop? > > I found that you can transfer files with Skype - very handy. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access > > And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very > easy to use however. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: >> Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." >> >> That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and >> installation. >> However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". >> I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 14:33:28 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:33:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F7B5F914EBB429C940DFD701E134E27@creativesystemdesigns.com> If your network person is concerned then he should put a secure VPN around the connections. (At one time, I worked with a network guy that was over the top with security and it took the manager to say either the consultant has remote connection by noon or you're gone.) There is no remote login system that is absolute 100 percent secure as it is just another open port that some bot can pound away at...for the next 100 years if automated. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access All, Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Gustav Brock Sent: Sun 11/27/2011 5:26 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Hi Brad and Mark It's more than just fine. It's excellent, and we set up the free version routinely on all workstations as my colleagues often work out of the house. Also, they often have dedicated workstations at clients where we install it too so these machines can be reached from our office (or home or other clients' locations). It can't be made easier to set up - takes a minute or so and works through any firewall and requires zero "special" things to be done. For more dedicated use, however, we do establish Remote Desktop to an in-house terminal server because of the local printing option. Some prefer TeamViewer which is excellent too. However, the free version is for "private use" only and we are reluctant to install such software for professional use. /gustav >>> marksimms at verizon.net 26-11-2011 23:25 >>> I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 14:37:20 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:37:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0129BF58E6474CBA950AFABC145037E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> That combo is definitely the best of all worlds and security as close to 100 percent as our universe allows...with 256-bit encryption. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Remote Desktop is tightly integrated with Windows. All the others are layered on top of Windows. Remote Desktop is indeed much much faster in most cases and I prefer RD whenever I can make that work. That is why I prefer Hamachi VPN when I can make that work. I have hard IPs and so I can use RD over Hamachi. Hamachi also allows you to browse network shares on the remote computer and even map network shares to local drive letters if you so desire. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 11:45 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. > > With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. > In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. > > Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? > > I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. > > Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 14:40:24 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:40:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: As far as I know, Skype will allow you copy files up to a certain sizes but RDP will allow you to stream files of any size and of course, it requires no client intervention. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:04 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access Can you transfer files with remote desktop? I found that you can transfer files with Skype - very handy. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very easy to use however. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." > > That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and > installation. > However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". > I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 14:43:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:43:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <0DD97455-0FDF-4932-8D0B-5490F9AAD5B4@verizon.net> References: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> <0DD97455-0FDF-4932-8D0B-5490F9AAD5B4@verizon.net> Message-ID: <93026C743025480B8B4A20812842F191@creativesystemdesigns.com> Microsoft bought its core Terminal service from Citrix and just removed features for the RDP on desktops. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access That's not as true as you might think. All run on top of terminal service, but There are other protocols out there that can be used in place of RDP which are more efficient, such as Citrix's. Jim Sent from my iPhone On Nov 27, 2011, at 11:57 AM, jwcolby wrote: > Remote Desktop is tightly integrated with Windows. All the others are layered on top of Windows. Remote Desktop is indeed much much faster in most cases and I prefer RD whenever I can make that work. That is why I prefer Hamachi VPN when I can make that work. I have hard IPs and so I can use RD over Hamachi. Hamachi also allows you to browse network shares on the remote computer and even map network shares to local drive letters if you so desire. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 11:45 AM, Brad Marks wrote: >> All, >> >> Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. >> >> With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. >> In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. >> >> Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? >> >> I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. >> >> Brad > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 17:00:51 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:00:51 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net>, <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ED2C123.2392.D50DEC0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I use it in much the same way as you. The main thing the Pro version does is let you sort within a fence automtically by name, date etc rather than having to arrange the icons individual by drag and drop. It guess it would be useful if you put "lots" of files in a fence, otherwise not a great benefit Apparently what Dan wants is to turn off the "automatic snap to grid" inside a fence and without that ability , he thinks that the application is worthless. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 8:39, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to do and > don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, Computer, and > drives shortcuts. > > Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets I use > often right from the desktop in another. > > A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. Another > fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm done working > on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their folder on comp 2. A > fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, Ghost, Lexmark Printer > stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. > > It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! > > But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no > value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little > miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic > features to be useful. > > So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have > to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air > conditioning, GPS etc. > > It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in > increased > convenience and comfort. > > But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and > give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. > > Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > > > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > > - at a 'small' price! > > > > Is it worth $9.95? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > > (Currently on "special" at > > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > > them where I want them. > > > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > > > Dan > > > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 27 17:02:11 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:02:11 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8A3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yeah, I paid for it as the free version has been so darn useful. I don't mind throwing a bit of cash when folks go ahead and make software that is so darn useful. Of course, your mileage may vary. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, 27 November 2011 2:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel - at a 'small' price! Is it worth $9.95? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sun Nov 27 17:03:37 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:03:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED2C123.2392.D50DEC0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net>, <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> <4ED2C123.2392.D50DEC0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001c01ccad58$cc20ca10$64625e30$@comcast.net> Hmmmmm - for me, yes. For you, no. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I use it in much the same way as you. The main thing the Pro version does is let you sort within a fence automtically by name, date etc rather than having to arrange the icons individual by drag and drop. It guess it would be useful if you put "lots" of files in a fence, otherwise not a great benefit Apparently what Dan wants is to turn off the "automatic snap to grid" inside a fence and without that ability , he thinks that the application is worthless. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 8:39, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to > do and don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, > Computer, and drives shortcuts. > > Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets > I use often right from the desktop in another. > > A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. > Another fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm > done working on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their > folder on comp 2. A fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, > Ghost, Lexmark Printer stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. > > It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that > makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman > > I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! > > But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is > of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I > get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which > doesn't have the basic features to be useful. > > So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll > have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air > conditioning, GPS etc. > > It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to > you in increased > convenience and comfort. > > But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop > and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. > > Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > > > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering > > wheel > > - at a 'small' price! > > > > Is it worth $9.95? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > > (Currently on "special" at > > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence > > > all the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I > > > want them where I want them. > > > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > > > Dan > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 27 17:04:46 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:04:46 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <005401ccacc0$5418ee00$fc4aca00$@gmail.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <005401ccacc0$5418ee00$fc4aca00$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8C0@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Bill, If you go via their site directly, you will see the sale price. Have a look here: <> and click on the Fences link. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Sunday, 27 November 2011 3:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as $19.95. I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be cycled through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different fences depending on the view selected. Is that possible? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 17:15:17 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:15:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8A3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net>, <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8A3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ED2C485.20949.D5E1328@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> When it only $10-20, I occassionally do the same. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 23:02, Darryl Collins wrote: > Yeah, I paid for it as the free version has been so darn useful. I > don't mind throwing a bit of cash when folks go ahead and make > software that is so darn useful. > > Of course, your mileage may vary. > > Cheers > Darryl > From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 19:27:02 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:27:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8C0@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <005401ccacc0$5418ee00$fc4aca00$@gmail.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8C0@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <001501ccad6c$d547afa0$7fd70ee0$@net> Isn't it just best to buy the whole object desktop suite for $50 ? I think that ICON developer is pretty slick. I tried with Photoshop to create my own PNG images for the Ribbon....and for command buttons.... And they really stunk....not very sharp. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > Bill, If you go via their site directly, you will see the sale price. > > Have a look here: <> and click on > the Fences link. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson > (VBACreations.Com) > Sent: Sunday, 27 November 2011 3:52 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it > as $19.95. > > I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be > cycled through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in > different fences depending on the view selected. > > Is that possible? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > the > > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them > where I > > want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 19:39:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:39:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net Message-ID: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the copy is very light. Is it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 19:57:12 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:57:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I don't know about paint.net, but with any decent image editor it is very easy to do. Even Irfanview allows you to easily manipulate the contrast, birghtness, saturation, gamma correction etc of an image. In fact that is probably the simplest tool you will find to do the job. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 20:39, jwcolby wrote: > I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the copy is very light. Is > it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW > increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 27 20:25:01 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 02:25:01 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE9F6@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yeah, in my experience MS Paint has to be the worst graphics tool I have ever had the mispleasure to (try) and use. It has never produce good results for me and always resulted in loss of quality. Irfanview on the other had is pretty solid and I use it to make icons etc. That said, I don't have the need to make Icons that often so a dedicated tool hasn't been on my radar. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, 28 November 2011 12:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paint.net I don't know about paint.net, but with any decent image editor it is very easy to do. Even Irfanview allows you to easily manipulate the contrast, birghtness, saturation, gamma correction etc of an image. In fact that is probably the simplest tool you will find to do the job. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 20:39, jwcolby wrote: > I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of > course the copy is very light. Is it possible to darken the washed > out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 20:36:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:36:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> Paint.Net looks like a nice program...I have never heard of it before. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the copy is very light. Is it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 21:20:35 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:20:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000001ccad7c$b25e3490$171a9db0$@net> Photoshop could do this one of two ways: 1) special filters 2) select pixels of an image based on a color range - it was very tricky to get it just right, but very powerful when it worked. There was a "fuzziness" setting that you had to work with trial-and-error. The key to this technique is the "washed out text" must be a distinguishable and somewhat unique color range. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:40 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net > > I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of > course the copy is very light. Is > it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also > darkening the background. IOW > increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more > black? > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 21:23:26 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:23:26 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com>, <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED2FEAE.7223.E414525@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I have it installed but have never really done much with it. I just checked it out. To answer JC's question: Yes - it's really simple in Paint.net. Go to Adjustments - Curves Make sure Luminosity is selected. Then click on various points on the straight line you see and drag it into some sort of S shape. A little experimentation with several points on the curve should give you what you want. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 18:36, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Paint.Net looks like a nice program...I have never heard of it before. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:40 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net > > I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the > copy is very light. Is > it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also > darkening the background. IOW > increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Sun Nov 27 21:23:59 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:23:59 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Yes, Jim. Paint.Net is very nice. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 3:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paint.net Paint.Net looks like a nice program...I have never heard of it before. Jim From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 27 21:53:34 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 03:53:34 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEAB4@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Ditto, but it looks very nice. We use GIMP at work, but this (at a glance) looks better. Nice one ! :) thanks. Will download and have a look. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, 28 November 2011 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paint.net Paint.Net looks like a nice program...I have never heard of it before. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the copy is very light. Is it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 23:38:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 00:38:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4ED31E41.806@colbyconsulting.com> I ended up doing it by reversing black and white, then pulling the brightness up to 100%, then flipping black and white again. I ended up with some speckles (copy crap) but the text itself ended up nice and dark. I tried just pulling the contrast and such but it pulled the background to a gray color. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 8:57 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I don't know about paint.net, but with any decent image editor it is very easy to do. > > Even Irfanview allows you to easily manipulate the contrast, birghtness, saturation, gamma > correction etc of an image. In fact that is probably the simplest tool you will find to do the > job. > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 23:44:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 00:44:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hard drives are starting to drop in price after the huge price jump from the floods. Message-ID: <4ED31FC1.2050809@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 23:44:53 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:44:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED31E41.806@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4ED31E41.806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED31FD5.8166.EC2C761@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You might like to try it again using "Curves" and compare the result for future reference. -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 0:38, jwcolby wrote: > I ended up doing it by reversing black and white, then pulling the brightness up to 100%, then > flipping black and white again. I ended up with some speckles (copy crap) but the text itself ended > up nice and dark. I tried just pulling the contrast and such but it pulled the background to a gray > color. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 8:57 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > I don't know about paint.net, but with any decent image editor it is very easy to do. > > > > Even Irfanview allows you to easily manipulate the contrast, birghtness, saturation, gamma > > correction etc of an image. In fact that is probably the simplest tool you will find to do the > > job. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 28 08:06:39 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:06:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hard drives are starting to drop in price after the huge price jump from the floods. In-Reply-To: <4ED31FC1.2050809@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED31FC1.2050809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <005f01ccadd6$f37995a0$da6cc0e0$@net> John - were the SSD's also affected, or only the rotational drives ? From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 28 08:51:32 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 06:51:32 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> FYI http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ 2862?tag=nl.e101 But the important thing is - what does this mean for us as Access developers? Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com Skype: rocky.smolin From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 28 09:56:28 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:56:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ > 2862?tag=nl.e101 From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 28 10:05:17 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 08:05:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind > ows-8/ > 2862?tag=nl.e101 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 28 10:15:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:15:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ED3B3B1.1060608@colbyconsulting.com> It certainly sounds like they are doing their homework on this one. It sure would be nice if they would build a VM that you could download and run under hyper-V. I have no interest in installing this native on any of my boxes. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > FYI > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ > 2862?tag=nl.e101 > > But the important thing is - what does this mean for us as Access > developers? > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > Skype: rocky.smolin > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 28 10:22:11 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:22:11 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Rocky and John et al Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ > 2862?tag=nl.e101 From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 28 10:28:39 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:28:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Rocky You probably will - as Windows 8 can run any modern Windows application - but to utilize the new top level tiled interface, you will need something like Visual Studio as Access in the view of MS is not a development environment, only an app with some fancy macro programming options (what is VBA?). /gustav >>> rockysmolin at bchacc.com 28-11-2011 17:05 >>> Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 10:55:31 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:55:31 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> Message-ID: Hi Rocky -- I suppose, you certainly will... -- Shamil 28 ?????? 2011, 20:06 ?? "Rocky Smolin" : > Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? > > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 > in a few years. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind > > ows-8/ > > 2862?tag=nl.e101 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 11:01:10 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:01:10 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) Thank you. -- Shamil 28 ?????? 2011, 20:19 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Rocky and John et al > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > /gustav > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ > > 2862?tag=nl.e101 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 28 11:27:14 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:27:14 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Shamil I've only played a little with it. Problem is that my machine at work still runs XP and that doesn't accept the Phone 7 developing environment. However, I _will_ get started on this ... and to get it going, next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia in programming these devices. Our phones are Samsung Omnia7 with WP7 which should be able to upgrade to 7.5 soon. /gustav >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:01 >>> Hi Gustav -- I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) Thank you. -- Shamil 28 ?????? 2011, 20:19 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Rocky and John et al > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > /gustav > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 11:40:59 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:40:59 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- > next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia > in programming these devices Good news! If you'll have opportunity to take brief notes on that course and share that notes here that would be very useful - just notes on what should be taken into consideration first of all when doing WP 7/7.5 development.... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I have just played a bit with my kid Samsung Galaxy Fit Android device (never had opportunity before to touch/play with Android devices or iPhones -I was very before several years in a row :)) - that Android technology is a very useful thing, no doubt - *now* this world is becoming really connected - would that help this World nations to understand better each other? - let's hope so... 28 ?????? 2011, 21:24 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > I've only played a little with it. Problem is that my machine at work still runs XP and that doesn't accept the Phone 7 developing environment. > However, I _will_ get started on this ... and to get it going, next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia in programming these devices. > > Our phones are Samsung Omnia7 with WP7 which should be able to upgrade to 7.5 soon. > > /gustav > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:01 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 28 ?????? 2011, 20:19 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 28 11:57:23 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:57:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Shamil With the limited amount of time available I've decided to stay off Android and iPhone and concentrate on WP7. Yes I know - lots of those units out there - but you have to focus. As for connecting the World, I think we've seen a lot of this during the last half year of so - for example, how the news from North Africa have spread all over within the hour. Smart phones do play a role as they always are at hand (literally) /gustav >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:40 >>> Hi Gustav -- > next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia > in programming these devices Good news! If you'll have opportunity to take brief notes on that course and share that notes here that would be very useful - just notes on what should be taken into consideration first of all when doing WP 7/7.5 development.... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I have just played a bit with my kid Samsung Galaxy Fit Android device (never had opportunity before to touch/play with Android devices or iPhones -I was very before several years in a row :)) - that Android technology is a very useful thing, no doubt - *now* this world is becoming really connected - would that help this World nations to understand better each other? - let's hope so... 28 ****** 2011, 21:24 ** "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > I've only played a little with it. Problem is that my machine at work still runs XP and that doesn't accept the Phone 7 developing environment. > However, I _will_ get started on this ... and to get it going, next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia in programming these devices. > > Our phones are Samsung Omnia7 with WP7 which should be able to upgrade to 7.5 soon. > > /gustav > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:01 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 28 ****** 2011, 20:19 ** "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 12:37:42 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:37:42 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- Yes, I also currently do not plan to make Andorid or iPhone development - I have just played with my kid Android device to see what it does, and it does a lot of useful things - Google, Gmail, GoogleTalk, GoogleMaps, .... "at your fingertips" - just name the few ... Now, "fresh with that experience" I will see what WP 7.5 will have to propose me (as a customer) - currently Android device looks very attractive and the "Google vs. MS smart-phones technology battle" promise to be very interesting... Re: connected world - yes, it all starts now - lets' hope it will be driven by goodwill not by George Orwell's "oligarchical dictatorship of the Parties" one of which "United Russia" (still in rather embryonic state but anyway horrible) I'm "happy" to witness here in Russia nowadays... Thank you. -- Shamil 28 ?????? 2011, 21:54 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > With the limited amount of time available I've decided to stay off Android and iPhone and concentrate on WP7. Yes I know - lots of those units out there - but you have to focus. > > As for connecting the World, I think we've seen a lot of this during the last half year of so - for example, how the news from North Africa have spread all over within the hour. Smart phones do play a role as they always are at hand (literally) > > /gustav > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:40 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > > next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia > > in programming these devices > Good news! If you'll have opportunity to take brief notes on that course and share that notes here that would be very useful - just notes on what should be taken into consideration first of all when doing WP 7/7.5 development.... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > P.S. I have just played a bit with my kid Samsung Galaxy Fit Android device (never had opportunity before to touch/play with Android devices or iPhones -I was very before several years in a row :)) - that Android technology is a very useful thing, no doubt - *now* this world is becoming really connected - would that help this World nations to understand better each other? - let's hope so... > > 28 ****** 2011, 21:24 ** "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Shamil > > > > I've only played a little with it. Problem is that my machine at work still runs XP and that doesn't accept the Phone 7 developing environment. > > However, I _will_ get started on this ... and to get it going, next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia in programming these devices. > > > > Our phones are Samsung Omnia7 with WP7 which should be able to upgrade to 7.5 soon. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:01 >>> > > Hi Gustav -- > > > > I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 28 ****** 2011, 20:19 ** "Gustav Brock" : > > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 28 15:45:06 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:45:06 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007>, <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com>, <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ED400E2.16834.1231DFF1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> At this stage Windows 8 is two different OSs as far as developers are concerned: 1. Desktop Windows 2. Tablet Windows You will need to develop for one of the other. They use different UI paradigms They use different APIs They use different development tools. They will frequently run on different processors - dekstop native code will not be cross-compatible - so if you build a complied to run on an Intel desktop, it will not run on an ARM tablet Note that every one of the listed things is about tablets and "uers apps". I don't see business-centric, data intensive applications running on a metro interface or a tablet for a long time to come. With Windows 8 in a business environment, users will switch on, log in, click oon the Desktop Icon and then function the way they do now. They only part of Metro they will see on this work PC will be the logon screen. It may be the next great thing if developers and users go for it and it makes huge inroads in the mobile market. Or it may be the death knell for Microsoft as an OS selller - You could be looking at a massive shift to Android/Linux in the next few years if it doesn't go down well in the marketplace. -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 8:05, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 > in a few years. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind > > ows-8/ > > 2862?tag=nl.e101 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 28 16:10:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:10:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Rocky and John et al > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ >> 2862?tag=nl.e101 > > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 28 16:36:46 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:36:46 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED14@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> I would also ask if 'touch' is better. Period. Sure it has a kinda ubercoolness about it and for tablets it makes sense. Even so, I still love the buttons on my older iPod as I can skip tracks etc by feel only, never needing to take my eyes off the road (or whatever). Not so easy to do on a touch set up. So for a device where you are consuming media, touch is probably good, but for me, where I am making stuff the sheer speed and power of the mouse keyboard combo seems hard to beat. Maybe I am just an old monkey struggling to learn new tricks. One thing I will say about those smart phones that really sucks is their battery life. My 2004 Nokia 6600 (which is still in regular use today) is still powering on a single charge for up to 6 days. My wife's HTC needs charging every night. This is not a diss at HTC, all the smart phones are like that. One days use (even on standby) and you need to find a power outlet. Plurk. Batteries are still the weak link. Just my musings. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Rocky and John et al > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-win >> dows-8/ >> 2862?tag=nl.e101 > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 28 16:40:57 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:40:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And retrofitting all of my systems is a > non-starter. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > > tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > > screens, and video boards. > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 28 17:01:45 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:01:45 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > > tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > > screens, and video boards. > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 28 17:22:13 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:22:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED400E2.16834.1231DFF1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> <4ED400E2.16834.1231DFF1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Not to be a nay-sayer, but my two cents: if Facebook is planning to release a phone and Blackberry is dying, it suggests to me that the overall market is already saturated and that WP7 is dead on arrival. Maybe Microsoft will be able to capture a few percent. It would seem to me that developing outside the Android and iPhone platforms is a big risk to take, unless you have a very niche market? - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-28, at 1:45 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > At this stage Windows 8 is two different OSs as far as developers are concerned: > > 1. Desktop Windows > 2. Tablet Windows > > You will need to develop for one of the other. > They use different UI paradigms > They use different APIs > They use different development tools. > > They will frequently run on different processors - dekstop native code will not be > cross-compatible - so if you build a complied to run on an Intel desktop, it will not run on an > ARM tablet > > Note that every one of the listed things is about tablets and "uers apps". > > I don't see business-centric, data intensive applications running on a metro interface or a > tablet for a long time to come. With Windows 8 in a business environment, users will switch > on, log in, click oon the Desktop Icon and then function the way they do now. They only part > of Metro they will see on this work PC will be the logon screen. > > It may be the next great thing if developers and users go for it and it makes huge inroads in > the mobile market. > > Or it may be the death knell for Microsoft as an OS selller - You could be looking at a > massive shift to Android/Linux in the next few years if it doesn't go down well in the > marketplace. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 28 Nov 2011 at 8:05, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >> >> For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 >> in a few years. >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind >>> ows-8/ >>> 2862?tag=nl.e101 >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 28 17:25:39 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:25:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <697A31B1-2823-41F6-B3E7-A223DA808EC4@phulse.com> Not to mention, accidents with monitors falling off the back of the desk. :) - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-28, at 3:01 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? > > Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. > > -- > Stuart > > On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > >> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>> >>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>> >>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>> screens, and video boards. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 18:25:39 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 04:25:39 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: , <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Darryl -- Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... Thank you. -- Shamil 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins : > Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? > > Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. > > -- > Stuart > > On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > > > Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > > retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > > Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > > > tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > > > screens, and video boards. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 28 18:28:39 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:28:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that "other venture"... which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. His track record is not that good. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 28 19:08:45 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:08:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, Message-ID: <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the fine resolution of a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel precision with a fingertip? On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Darryl -- > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 28 19:10:04 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:10:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> References: , <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> Message-ID: <4ED430EC.10726.12ED88F0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It's just as likely to be: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be the Windows killer". -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 19:28, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" > > Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. > It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that "other > venture"... > which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. > > On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! > Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. > His track record is not that good. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 28 19:49:01 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:49:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> References: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> Message-ID: <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> The only way that Microsoft can produce an iPad killer is if they manage to somehow completely bridge the gap between different types of users with an intuitive UI. I am pleasantly surprised to see how much my own non-technical father has taken to his iPad. He thinks its brilliant and now he's hooked using it all the time for Skype, emailing, viewing family photos and reading the news etc, but now and again he still asks me how something is done rather than experimenting himself. Not as much with a normal desktop computer and maybe this is really due to the conditioning that comes with decades of using Windows on the desktop, but even I can see there are still some rough edges on (even) the iPad that make it so it isn't always evident what button to press or what the result of your interaction will be. With Android, this is even worse. If Microsoft can somehow manage to create a UI interface where any type of user can feel completely natural using it, then Microsoft may in fact have an iPad killer. My feeling is that they won't be able to. As far as I am aware (and please correct me if I am wrong), they are only just making it more complicated by laying the Metro UI on top of a regular Windows desktop. And, if they can't, well, I cannot see how they can possibly be any sort of "something"-killer, unless they compete for the sub-$200 market undercutting the Kindle Fire (which unlikely, given hardware requirements for Windows). I'm not sure this is what regular consumers want and that this is just more or less the same as Microsofts previously failed tablet offerings prior to the iPad. We shall see how things play out. - Hans On 2011-11-28, at 4:28 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" > > Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. > It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that "other > venture"... > which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. > > On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! > Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. > His track record is not that good. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 28 20:02:30 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 02:02:30 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> References: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yeah, I see them as two totally different markets. Many folks love and buy apple products as they don't have to worry about tweaking anything to make things function. This comes at a cost of course (both money and function), but for many consumers they either don't know about the costs or more likely care. I guess it is part of a product maturing in some ways. Back in the 60's when you purchased a car it was quite normal for you to do a lot of the maintenance yourself. The car would even come with a full workshop manual and often some basic tool kits as well. Compare that to these days were most folks call roadside assist to change a tyre and would never look under the bonnet - ever. I see the iThings a bit like that. Most folks don't care about the loss of flexibility or even creating stuff on the PC. They just want to access media, browse the web and get info via apps etc. And for the that the iPad is brilliant. Andriod is more flexible, but people don't want choices, they want something that works without any intervention from them. ... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 12:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 The only way that Microsoft can produce an iPad killer is if they manage to somehow completely bridge the gap between different types of users with an intuitive UI. I am pleasantly surprised to see how much my own non-technical father has taken to his iPad. He thinks its brilliant and now he's hooked using it all the time for Skype, emailing, viewing family photos and reading the news etc, but now and again he still asks me how something is done rather than experimenting himself. Not as much with a normal desktop computer and maybe this is really due to the conditioning that comes with decades of using Windows on the desktop, but even I can see there are still some rough edges on (even) the iPad that make it so it isn't always evident what button to press or what the result of your interaction will be. With Android, this is even worse. If Microsoft can somehow manage to create a UI interface where any type of user can feel completely natural using it, then Microsoft may in fact have an iPad killer. My feeling is that they won't be able to. As far as I am aware (and please correct me if I am wrong), they are only just making it more complicated by laying the Metro UI on top of a regular Windows desktop. And, if they can't, well, I cannot see how they can possibly be any sort of "something"-killer, unless they compete for the sub-$200 market undercutting the Kindle Fire (which unlikely, given hardware requirements for Windows). I'm not sure this is what regular consumers want and that this is just more or less the same as Microsofts previously failed tablet offerings prior to the iPad. We shall see how things play out. - Hans On 2011-11-28, at 4:28 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" > > Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. > It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that > "other venture"... > which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. > > On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! > Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. > His track record is not that good. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 28 21:12:33 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:12:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <003c01ccae44$bd6258d0$38270a70$@net> Then again, that's the way it's ALWAYS BEEN. Users can't tell you how to build a great app or interface.... They just know it when they see it....and use it. No reason Balmer & Company can't pull off an Ipad killer. No reason at all except for laziness or stupidity. In fact, if I were Balmer, I'd have a hundred posters printed with a picture of an Ipad being smashed with a sledgehammer that had a Windows 8 logo on it. Put em in all of the development rooms. Finally, I've been impressed with Samsung....they've got good quality devices at a fair price. Heck, a merger of MSFT and Samsung would give Apple the "willies". >.Most folks don't care about the loss of > flexibility or even creating stuff on the PC. They just want to access > media, browse the web and get info via apps etc. And for the that the > iPad is brilliant. Andriod is more flexible, but people don't want > choices, they want something that works without any intervention from > them. From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 28 21:24:16 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:24:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Perhaps you are onto something, Darryl. And perhaps Microsoft is merely trying to target corporate in the hopes they will turn away from iPads and Android tablets in favour of the familiar. But it's not very adventuresome of them, you have to admit. - Hans On 2011-11-28, at 6:02 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Yeah, I see them as two totally different markets. Many folks love and buy apple products as they don't have to worry about tweaking anything to make things function. This comes at a cost of course (both money and function), but for many consumers they either don't know about the costs or more likely care. > > I guess it is part of a product maturing in some ways. Back in the 60's when you purchased a car it was quite normal for you to do a lot of the maintenance yourself. The car would even come with a full workshop manual and often some basic tool kits as well. > > Compare that to these days were most folks call roadside assist to change a tyre and would never look under the bonnet - ever. I see the iThings a bit like that. Most folks don't care about the loss of flexibility or even creating stuff on the PC. They just want to access media, browse the web and get info via apps etc. And for the that the iPad is brilliant. Andriod is more flexible, but people don't want choices, they want something that works without any intervention from them. > > ... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 12:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > The only way that Microsoft can produce an iPad killer is if they manage to somehow completely bridge the gap between different types of users with an intuitive UI. I am pleasantly surprised to see how much my own non-technical father has taken to his iPad. He thinks its brilliant and now he's hooked using it all the time for Skype, emailing, viewing family photos and reading the news etc, but now and again he still asks me how something is done rather than experimenting himself. Not as much with a normal desktop computer and maybe this is really due to the conditioning that comes with decades of using Windows on the desktop, but even I can see there are still some rough edges on (even) the iPad that make it so it isn't always evident what button to press or what the result of your interaction will be. > > With Android, this is even worse. > > If Microsoft can somehow manage to create a UI interface where any type of user can feel completely natural using it, then Microsoft may in fact have an iPad killer. My feeling is that they won't be able to. As far as I am aware (and please correct me if I am wrong), they are only just making it more complicated by laying the Metro UI on top of a regular Windows desktop. And, if they can't, well, I cannot see how they can possibly be any sort of "something"-killer, unless they compete for the sub-$200 market undercutting the Kindle Fire (which unlikely, given hardware requirements for Windows). > > I'm not sure this is what regular consumers want and that this is just more or less the same as Microsofts previously failed tablet offerings prior to the iPad. > > We shall see how things play out. > > - Hans > > > > > On 2011-11-28, at 4:28 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" >> >> Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. >> It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that >> "other venture"... >> which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. >> >> On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! >> Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. >> His track record is not that good. >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 28 21:41:44 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:41:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid has wonderful voice recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming I pretty much type 99% the same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my computer is something that is close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Darryl -- > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins: >> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >> >> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? >> >> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. >> >> -- >> Stuart >> >> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >> >>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>> >>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>> >>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>>> screens, and video boards. >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Nov 29 01:22:40 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:22:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> <4ED400E2.16834.1231DFF1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <609ADEFEF4F042F892610C05988FEE0A@creativesystemdesigns.com> I would concur...I would consider myself a Windows fan but I have to also be practical. If Windows is widely and heartily adopted then it will get more of my attention...but at this moment, odds do not look good. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 3:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Not to be a nay-sayer, but my two cents: if Facebook is planning to release a phone and Blackberry is dying, it suggests to me that the overall market is already saturated and that WP7 is dead on arrival. Maybe Microsoft will be able to capture a few percent. It would seem to me that developing outside the Android and iPhone platforms is a big risk to take, unless you have a very niche market? - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-28, at 1:45 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > At this stage Windows 8 is two different OSs as far as developers are concerned: > > 1. Desktop Windows > 2. Tablet Windows > > You will need to develop for one of the other. > They use different UI paradigms > They use different APIs > They use different development tools. > > They will frequently run on different processors - dekstop native code will not be > cross-compatible - so if you build a complied to run on an Intel desktop, it will not run on an > ARM tablet > > Note that every one of the listed things is about tablets and "uers apps". > > I don't see business-centric, data intensive applications running on a metro interface or a > tablet for a long time to come. With Windows 8 in a business environment, users will switch > on, log in, click oon the Desktop Icon and then function the way they do now. They only part > of Metro they will see on this work PC will be the logon screen. > > It may be the next great thing if developers and users go for it and it makes huge inroads in > the mobile market. > > Or it may be the death knell for Microsoft as an OS selller - You could be looking at a > massive shift to Android/Linux in the next few years if it doesn't go down well in the > marketplace. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 28 Nov 2011 at 8:05, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >> >> For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 >> in a few years. >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind >>> ows-8/ >>> 2862?tag=nl.e101 >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Nov 29 01:26:20 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:26:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <6F72D2FEBC464D60B6B7FFF2D2DDACE5@creativesystemdesigns.com> I think that what happens when you don't do your backups and the system crashes and then everything you lost is a virtual document. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 5:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the fine resolution of a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel precision with a fingertip? On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Darryl -- > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Nov 29 02:27:54 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:27:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Mark That's exactly what I see when people use the Windows Phone - they understand it right away because of the simplicity and the superior graphic design - including a perfect font and beautiful ring tones made by musicians (my favourite is 19 Bell which is a pure joy to listen to). MSFT has been lazy and stupid at many occasions through the years but the Metro project is the opposite; a master-piece in visual design and use, only possible by hard work from a team of highly skilled people with 100% backup from the management. This is why I say "don't ever underestimate MSFT". Just watch the videos about the Metro design (links published here several times). It takes some courage to dismount all the useless 3D-stuff - which have gone too far - and return to 2D. /gustav >>> marksimms at verizon.net 29-11-2011 04:12 >>> Then again, that's the way it's ALWAYS BEEN. Users can't tell you how to build a great app or interface.... They just know it when they see it....and use it. No reason Balmer & Company can't pull off an Ipad killer. No reason at all except for laziness or stupidity. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 29 03:51:42 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:51:42 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- > This is why I say "don't ever underestimate MSFT". Yes: http://www.insearchofstupidity.com/ -- Shamil 29 ?????? 2011, 12:25 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Mark > > That's exactly what I see when people use the Windows Phone - they understand it right away because of the simplicity and the superior graphic design - including a perfect font and beautiful ring tones made by musicians (my favourite is 19 Bell which is a pure joy to listen to). > > MSFT has been lazy and stupid at many occasions through the years but the Metro project is the opposite; a master-piece in visual design and use, only possible by hard work from a team of highly skilled people with 100% backup from the management. This is why I say "don't ever underestimate MSFT". Just watch the videos about the Metro design (links published here several times). It takes some courage to dismount all the useless 3D-stuff - which have gone too far - and return to 2D. > > /gustav > > >>> marksimms at verizon.net 29-11-2011 04:12 >>> > Then again, that's the way it's ALWAYS BEEN. Users can't tell you how to > build a great app or interface.... > They just know it when they see it....and use it. > No reason Balmer & Company can't pull off an Ipad killer. > No reason at all except for laziness or stupidity. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 29 03:55:10 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:55:10 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John -- Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how I will be able to do that effectively :) -- Shamil 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : > Shamil, > > Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid has wonderful voice > recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming I pretty much type 99% the > same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my computer is something that is > close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Darryl -- > > > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins: > >> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) > >> > >> Cheers > >> Darryl. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > >> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > >> > >> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? > >> > >> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. > >> > >> -- > >> Stuart > >> > >> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > >> > >>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > >>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > >>> > >>> John W. Colby > >>> Colby Consulting > >>> > >>> Reality is what refuses to go away > >>> when you do not believe in it > >>> > >>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > >>>> Hi Rocky and John et al > >>>> > >>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > >>>> > >>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > >>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > >>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > >>>> screens, and video boards. > >>>> > >>>> /gustav > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 29 03:58:35 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:58:35 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart -- I mainly mean "shuffling" virtual documents by hands, getting/putting them into "folders" etc. Pixel precision cursor location with fingertip(s) will be done by using special virtual "pointing" assistants... Thank you. -- Shamil 29 ?????? 2011, 05:10 ?? "Stuart McLachlan" : > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the fine resolution of > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel precision with a > fingertip? > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Darryl -- > > > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Nov 29 07:52:47 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:52:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> Stuart, I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point with touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very powerful thing. Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is buttons. Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where consumer electronics is going. When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on a keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with your finger). Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. I need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. And not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard built into the desktop. As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you make them larger then the text they display; why is that? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the fine resolution of a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel precision with a fingertip? On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Darryl -- > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Nov 29 08:41:23 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:41:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sub Query Assistance Requested Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F705B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I have the following query that works correctly returning a result of 8 SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count] FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))); I would also like to return the field EngArea from the table [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] also. Would that be possible and if so how? My attempts so far have failed. Result should be something like this Active Flowing Count EngArea 3 1 1 2 4 3 Thanks. Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 10:01:02 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:01:02 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et al!! Charlotte Foust On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi John -- > > Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how > I will be able to do that effectively :) > > -- Shamil > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : > > Shamil, > > > > Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid > has wonderful voice > > recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming > I pretty much type 99% the > > same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my > computer is something that is > > close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Darryl -- > > > > > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > > > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > > > > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< > darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: > > >> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use > these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large > monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving > my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things > happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily > angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the > issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More > cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate > finger prints on my screens!! ;) > > >> > > >> Cheers > > >> Darryl. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > >> > > >> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a > business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database > application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your > fingertips? > > >> > > >> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a > tough time. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Stuart > > >> > > >> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > > >> > > >>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > > >>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > > >>> > > >>> John W. Colby > > >>> Colby Consulting > > >>> > > >>> Reality is what refuses to go away > > >>> when you do not believe in it > > >>> > > >>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > >>>> Hi Rocky and John et al > > >>>> > > >>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, > Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > >>>> > > >>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > >>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > > >>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > > >>>> screens, and video boards. > > >>>> > > >>>> /gustav > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >> > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Nov 29 10:25:00 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:25:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <77E871AEBCC748BE817DF91D22CCC36A@HAL9007> Phonetic Punctuation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF4qii8S3gw Classic R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 8:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et al!! Charlotte Foust On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi John -- > > Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine > how I will be able to do that effectively :) > > -- Shamil > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : > > Shamil, > > > > Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My > > Droid > has wonderful voice > > recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am > > programming > I pretty much type 99% the > > same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to > > my > computer is something that is > > close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Darryl -- > > > > > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > > > multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > > > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally > > > mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > > > > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< > darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: > > >> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices > > >> use > these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 > large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to > be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to > make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is > flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that > - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling > lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell > I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) > > >> > > >> Cheers > > >> Darryl. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > >> > > >> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in > > >> a > business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database > application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at > your fingertips? > > >> > > >> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a > tough time. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Stuart > > >> > > >> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > > >> > > >>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > > >>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > > >>> > > >>> John W. Colby > > >>> Colby Consulting > > >>> > > >>> Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > >>> > > >>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > >>>> Hi Rocky and John et al > > >>>> > > >>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, > Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > >>>> > > >>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > >>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone > > >>>> through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV > > >>>> monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > >>>> > > >>>> /gustav > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >> > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 29 13:47:21 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:47:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> Haha I remember that one. A true classic. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-29, at 8:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a > phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer > spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et > al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving >> my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things >> happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily >> angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More >> cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate >> finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database >> application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>>>>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>>>>>> screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 13:52:35 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:52:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Sub Query Assistance Requested In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F705B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F705B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: Chester, Try SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count],EngArea FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID, EngArea FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))) Group by EngArea; On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Kaup, Chester < Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com> wrote: > I have the following query that works correctly returning a result of 8 > > SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count] > FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID > FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A > WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))); > > I would also like to return the field EngArea from the table > [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] also. Would that be possible and if so > how? My attempts so far have failed. > > Result should be something like this > Active Flowing Count EngArea > 3 1 > 1 2 > 4 3 > > Thanks. > > Chester Kaup > Engineering Technician > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > Office (432) 688-3797 > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Nov 29 14:36:38 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:36:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians In-Reply-To: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> Message-ID: <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> And he made you laugh without using a single word of profanity, use of anything off-topic, and he didn't degrade or disrespect any member of the audience. Where have all the great comedians gone? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 02:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Haha I remember that one. A true classic. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-29, at 8:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a > phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer > spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et > al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving >> my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things >> happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily >> angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More >> cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate >> finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database >> application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>>>>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>>>>>> screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 29 16:03:27 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:03:27 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> References: , <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com>, <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> Message-ID: <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic http://goo.gl/KtZIE From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Nov 29 16:14:35 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:14:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sub Query Assistance Requested In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F705B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F722C@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Thanks. Perfect. That got it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack drawbridge Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 1:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Sub Query Assistance Requested Chester, Try SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count],EngArea FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID, EngArea FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))) Group by EngArea; On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Kaup, Chester < Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com> wrote: > I have the following query that works correctly returning a result of 8 > > SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count] > FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID > FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A > WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))); > > I would also like to return the field EngArea from the table > [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] also. Would that be possible and if so > how? My attempts so far have failed. > > Result should be something like this > Active Flowing Count EngArea > 3 1 > 1 2 > 4 3 > > Thanks. > > Chester Kaup > Engineering Technician > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > Office (432) 688-3797 > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Tue Nov 29 16:30:25 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:30:25 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians In-Reply-To: <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> Message-ID: <003701ccaee6$7eee7690$7ccb63b0$@activebilling.com.au> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF4qii8S3gw very clever -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, 30 November 2011 7:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians And he made you laugh without using a single word of profanity, use of anything off-topic, and he didn't degrade or disrespect any member of the audience. Where have all the great comedians gone? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 02:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Haha I remember that one. A true classic. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-29, at 8:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had > a phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a > programmer spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, > etc., for C# et al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently >> imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My >>> Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am >>> programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to >>> my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on >>>> multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating >> with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices >>>>> use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be >> waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make >> things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter >> or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and >> then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. >> More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. >> Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or >> database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard >> and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone >>>>>>> through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV >>>>>>> monitors, table screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Nov 29 17:21:37 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:21:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com>, <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> PowerBasic is quite a powerful package. It's incredibly important to see that given the other dev environments...dot-net, java, Ruby, php, etc.... It has never gained "traction". From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Nov 29 18:59:27 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:59:27 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians In-Reply-To: <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com><72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> Message-ID: <8D0568C0EFD64420B49534A890FB856C@HAL9007> Nowhere. They're all on You Tube. :) R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians And he made you laugh without using a single word of profanity, use of anything off-topic, and he didn't degrade or disrespect any member of the audience. Where have all the great comedians gone? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 02:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Haha I remember that one. A true classic. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-29, at 8:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had > a phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a > programmer spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, > etc., for C# et al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently >> imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My >>> Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am >>> programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to >>> my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on >>>> multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating >> with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices >>>>> use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be >> waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make >> things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter >> or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and >> then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. >> More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. >> Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or >> database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard >> and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone >>>>>>> through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV >>>>>>> monitors, table screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 06:03:43 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:03:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <6F72D2FEBC464D60B6B7FFF2D2DDACE5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6F72D2FEBC464D60B6B7FFF2D2DDACE5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED61B9F.1070106@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL. Best whacky definition I have seen in ages. Virtual documents: What happens when the system dies and you have no backups John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 2:26 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I think that what happens when you don't do your backups and the system > crashes and then everything you lost is a virtual document. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 5:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > fine resolution of > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > precision with a > fingertip? > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Darryl -- >> >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >> >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 06:29:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:29:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> Message-ID: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you really need that? No. One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point with > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very powerful > thing. > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is buttons. > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > consumer electronics is going. > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on a > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with your > finger). > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. I > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. And > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > keyboard on a touch screen. > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > built into the desktop. > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you make > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > fine resolution of > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > precision with a > fingertip? > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Darryl -- >> >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >> >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 06:32:56 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:32:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED62278.3040000@colbyconsulting.com> You laugh but this is already happening. People with disabilities who cannot speak normally can train their computers to recognize whatever their "equivalent" sound may be to mean a word or phrase. Thus you could indeed make up your own sound for a curly bracket or open paren or whatever. Remember the star treck movie where scotty picks up the mouse and tries to speak into it? Ignoring for a moment why he would even have a concept of a microphone that you had to pick up and hold to your face to speak into... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 11:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a > phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer > spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et > al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby: >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving >> my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things >> happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily >> angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More >> cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate >> finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database >> application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>>>>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>>>>>> screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 06:43:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:43:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com>, <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) You do? I never realized! ;) John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > > Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > > http://goo.gl/KtZIE > > From steve at goodhall.info Wed Nov 30 07:50:44 2011 From: steve at goodhall.info (Steve Goodhall) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:50:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a matter of scaling. Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP -----Original message----- From: jwcolby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you really need that? No. One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point with > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very powerful > thing. > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is buttons. > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > consumer electronics is going. > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on a > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with your > finger). > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. I > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. And > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > keyboard on a touch screen. > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > built into the desktop. > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you make > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > fine resolution of > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > precision with a > fingertip? > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Darryl -- >> >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >> >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 08:07:29 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:07:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, Message-ID: <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another > keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > > keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Nov 30 09:12:17 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:12:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another > keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > > keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 30 09:25:20 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:25:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> References: , <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com>, <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> Message-ID: <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. Web Development ? Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or Desktop development. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 09:55:20 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:55:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> Message-ID: I use align a lot by rubber banding controls and align horizontal, vertical, equal spacing, etc. That's because there's no magnify in design view which I really wish there was. Would make things so much easier. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From steve at goodhall.info Wed Nov 30 10:16:26 2011 From: steve at goodhall.info (Steve Goodhall) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:16:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> Message-ID: <396fba1e-c77d-484e-b69b-3436da4be89b@blur> Wouldn't it be easier just to set the Left, Top, Width and Height properties either manually or programmatically? I do this all the time in other languages. It's generally what .NET does with your designer settings anyway. Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP -----Original message----- From: Rocky Smolin To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 15:56:59 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 I use align a lot by rubber banding controls and align horizontal, vertical, equal spacing, etc. That's because there's no magnify in design view which I really wish there was. Would make things so much easier. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 10:26:21 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:26:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <396fba1e-c77d-484e-b69b-3436da4be89b@blur> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <396fba1e-c77d-484e-b69b-3436da4be89b@blur> Message-ID: Oh, I do that a lot as well. If I've put half a dozen buttons on a form or a bunch of text boxes and want to make them all the same width, I pick the one I like best, copy its width property, rubber band the rest and past. I use keyboard shortcuts for aligning though and it goes real fast. Alt-OAT aligns to top. Alt-OZE spaces equally horizontally, etc. I'm a mouseophobe. The less I use it the happier I am. It slows things down. And I use alt-Tab to toggle between design view and code. The one thing I'd like is a shortcut that would move the focus from the property sheet back to the form or report being designed. When I click on an event to create or edit the event module, then alt-Tab back to the form or report, the property sheet still has the focus. I have to click outside the property sheet - means using the mouse. A keyboard shortcut to do that would be nice. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com Skype: rocky.smolin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Goodhall Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Wouldn't it be easier just to set the Left, Top, Width and Height properties either manually or programmatically? I do this all the time in other languages. It's generally what .NET does with your designer settings anyway. Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP -----Original message----- From: Rocky Smolin To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 15:56:59 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 I use align a lot by rubber banding controls and align horizontal, vertical, equal spacing, etc. That's because there's no magnify in design view which I really wish there was. Would make things so much easier. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 10:38:22 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:38:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> Message-ID: <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another > keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > > keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 11:08:47 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:08:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. Doug On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) >> >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic >> >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE >> >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 11:12:43 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:12:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> Message-ID: <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Mark: Some people believe that Cloud development will do exact that. Steve Jobs went so far as to announce, "The PC is dead." The understanding is that there will be no need for desktop type computers as where ever you go all you data and work capability will travel with you. All you will need is a dumb terminal like an iPad and you can go anywhere. Within major centers this scenario can work but once into the rural areas the desktop is still king and will be for the foreseeable future. This may very well be why Windows 8 was created with two UIs. One, when you are downtown and one when you are further out in the community. The Cloud is great as a remote hard drive, development platform and application host and coupled with full communication to the internet it is a potent back-end. For me the whole Cloud scenario is great but if I drive 20 miles, out of town, an iPad is almost useless, as internet communication and cell phone coverage is spotty at best and I had better have my laptop ready if I want to work with my office or programming applications...even if I am developing for the Cloud or Smartphones. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. Web Development ? Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or Desktop development. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 11:27:55 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:27:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com><4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> Sometimes the grid it too coarse to get the controls exactly where I want them. But again I use the keyboard - ctrl with an arrow nudges the control - and holding it down moves it continuously. I use that a lot. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Nov 30 11:34:11 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:34:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Aligning Controls (was: Windows 8) Message-ID: <002301ccaf86$460653c0$d212fb40$@comcast.net> I made a custom toolbar with the four alignment buttons. Very handy. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 11:35:44 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:35:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Don't you have swype available, John? It's in the Android OS, and I couldn't live without it. When I have to work with the virtual keyboard on my Nook ereader, I get very frustrated having to tap each letter separately! Charlotte Foust On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:29 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do > you really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or special > characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat fingertip to get > at a specific character to back space over... > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > >> Stuart, >> >> I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point >> with >> touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very >> powerful >> thing. >> >> Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. >> Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. >> >> I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's >> fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is >> buttons. >> Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, >> hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it >> will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. >> >> Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. >> Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function >> displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their >> function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where >> consumer electronics is going. >> >> When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on >> a >> keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with >> your >> finger). >> >> Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. >> I >> need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this >> emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. >> And >> not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really >> important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual >> keyboard on a touch screen. >> >> Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard >> built into the desktop. >> >> As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you >> really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only >> worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not >> getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you >> make >> them larger then the text they display; why is that? >> >> Jim. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com] >> On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM >> >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >> >> What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. >> >> If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the >> fine resolution of >> a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel >> precision with a >> fingertip? >> >> >> On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >> Darryl -- >>> >>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >>> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >>> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >>> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >>> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>> >>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >>> >> communication with them... >> >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 11:36:56 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:36:56 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Before I started developing Android apps in Eclipse, I was using appInventor, an online web development IDE. I hated it at first, the fact that you needed to be online to develop. I really miss it now that I am developing in Eclipse. I have to remember to back up the project to thumb drive to transport between home, work and school. Nothing worse than getting to your destination and realizing that the thumb drive is still plugged into the computer at home. Not to mention import/reference issues between locations. It is nice just to log into a site and have your project ready to continue where you left off. I love how Apple says the PC is dead, but you cannot compile an iOS app without a MAC laptop running Intel chipset. You can't compile on a Win PC, iPad or iPhone. Maybe that is about to change, God, I hope so. D On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Mark: > > Some people believe that Cloud development will do exact that. Steve Jobs > went so far as to announce, "The PC is dead." > > The understanding is that there will be no need for desktop type computers > as where ever you go all you data and work capability will travel with you. > All you will need is a dumb terminal like an iPad and you can go anywhere. > > Within major centers this scenario can work but once into the rural areas > the desktop is still king and will be for the foreseeable future. This may > very well be why Windows 8 was created with two UIs. One, when you are > downtown and one when you are further out in the community. > > The Cloud is great as a remote hard drive, development platform and > application host and coupled with full communication to the internet it is > a > potent back-end. > > For me the whole Cloud scenario is great but if I drive 20 miles, out of > town, an iPad is almost useless, as internet communication and cell phone > coverage is spotty at best and I had better have my laptop ready if I want > to work with my office or programming applications...even if I am > developing > for the Cloud or Smartphones. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:25 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development > > Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. > Web Development ? > Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. > > It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or > Desktop development. > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 11:38:18 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:38:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. Many of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it really shows. Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of their potential business because of it. A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not an artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and additional sales you get because of it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. Doug On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) >> >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic >> >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE >> >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 11:39:59 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:39:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> Message-ID: <51522143F8C84724A5D992643E75E913@creativesystemdesigns.com> Same here but sometimes I find myself turning my head horizontal to make sure everything is lined up. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Sometimes the grid it too coarse to get the controls exactly where I want them. But again I use the keyboard - ctrl with an arrow nudges the control - and holding it down moves it continuously. I use that a lot. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 12:28:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:28:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED675C4.6030601@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, and then there is data and bandwidth limits. My work is on data where I select records with gigabytes of data, select a few million, get those into csv files and email or ftp to a site. I move hundreds of gigs of data back and forth doing this just for a single order. So for the house hold pc perhaps, for companies, it seems unlikely. Someday of course (50 years from now?) all the data will just reside in the cloud, will be manipulated on systems in the cloud, and will be delivered to its destination in the cloud. But that won't happen until things get much more reliable and everyone understands how to do this "cloud thing". I get DVDs for crying out loud, with zip files, filled with data which I have to extract and get into the format I can use. I got 100 gigs of raw data in fixed width format on a dozen DVDs, and I have to pull that into SQL Server, strip out the padding spaces and get into real tables. And of course, relative to "Star Trek" kinds of systems we are still in the horse and buggy days. We have come a very long way in just the last 20 years in terms of infrastructure. Remember in 1990 when we were dialing up servers on modems and praying for 12 kbit connections? In 1999 (when I lived in Mexico) I was dialing into servers up in the US to do remote desktop (VNC). But as Jim says, "out in the country"... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/30/2011 12:12 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Mark: > > Some people believe that Cloud development will do exact that. Steve Jobs > went so far as to announce, "The PC is dead." > > The understanding is that there will be no need for desktop type computers > as where ever you go all you data and work capability will travel with you. > All you will need is a dumb terminal like an iPad and you can go anywhere. > > Within major centers this scenario can work but once into the rural areas > the desktop is still king and will be for the foreseeable future. This may > very well be why Windows 8 was created with two UIs. One, when you are > downtown and one when you are further out in the community. > > The Cloud is great as a remote hard drive, development platform and > application host and coupled with full communication to the internet it is a > potent back-end. > > For me the whole Cloud scenario is great but if I drive 20 miles, out of > town, an iPad is almost useless, as internet communication and cell phone > coverage is spotty at best and I had better have my laptop ready if I want > to work with my office or programming applications...even if I am developing > for the Cloud or Smartphones. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:25 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development > > Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. > Web Development ? > Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. > > It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or > Desktop development. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 12:30:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:30:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED67637.9020309@colbyconsulting.com> Apparently it is available but... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/30/2011 12:35 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Don't you have swype available, John? It's in the Android OS, and I > couldn't live without it. When I have to work with the virtual keyboard on > my Nook ereader, I get very frustrated having to tap each letter separately! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:29 AM, jwcolbywrote: > >>> As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do >> you really need that? No. >> >> One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, >> constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or special >> characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat fingertip to get >> at a specific character to back space over... >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> >>> Stuart, >>> >>> I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point >>> with >>> touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very >>> powerful >>> thing. >>> >>> Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. >>> Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. >>> >>> I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's >>> fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is >>> buttons. >>> Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, >>> hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it >>> will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. >>> >>> Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. >>> Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function >>> displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their >>> function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where >>> consumer electronics is going. >>> >>> When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on >>> a >>> keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with >>> your >>> finger). >>> >>> Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. >>> I >>> need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this >>> emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. >>> And >>> not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really >>> important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual >>> keyboard on a touch screen. >>> >>> Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard >>> built into the desktop. >>> >>> As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you >>> really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only >>> worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not >>> getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you >>> make >>> them larger then the text they display; why is that? >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com] >>> On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM >>> >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>> >>> What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. >>> >>> If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the >>> fine resolution of >>> a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel >>> precision with a >>> fingertip? >>> >>> >>> On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>> >>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >>>> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >>>> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >>>> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >>>> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >>>> >>> communication with them... >>> >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >> >> >> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 13:18:40 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:18:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: I seriously agree with that. Having been down that road and suffered its consequences, I have learned the lesson. I can write code; I can't sell ad-space; I have a web-site idea but the whole point is to find sponsors and I'm not good at that part of the equation. Nevertheless, I'm going to try. Tips and trickers for shoppers and programmers and various other alienated persons clickers and quickers and something else that rhymes with the New York Times A. From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 30 13:55:17 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:55:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> Message-ID: <8A3D8B03-6354-428D-9F44-662089B7DEFF@phulse.com> It's basically the same thing with different tools and a different platform, except concepts such as storage and such are now abstracted into another service layer. The same for the CPU and database, etc. Companies are basically just taking on the overwhelming cost of scaling and providing platforms for smaller business to base their web and infrastructure on. Other than that, its often just used as a Marketting lingo to loosely describe another form of whizzbang hosting for some specific service or other. Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 30 Nov 2011, at 07:25, "Mark Simms" wrote: > Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. > Web Development ? > Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. > > It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or > Desktop development. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 15:29:38 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 07:29:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> References: , <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net>, <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> Message-ID: <4ED6A042.27002.21E87A1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Cloud development = web development where you don't know where your code and data are. :-) -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 10:25, Mark Simms wrote: > Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. > Web Development ? > Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. > > It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or > Desktop development. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 15:38:35 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 07:38:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <396fba1e-c77d-484e-b69b-3436da4be89b@blur>, Message-ID: <4ED6A25B.339.226BB4E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Try Alt+Enter to display the property sheet and Alt+F4 to close it and return to the control in question -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:26, Rocky Smolin wrote: > The one thing I'd like is a shortcut that would move the focus from the > property sheet back to the form or report being designed. When I click on > an event to create or edit the event module, then alt-Tab back to the form > or report, the property sheet still has the focus. I have to click outside > the property sheet - means using the mouse. A keyboard shortcut to do that > would be nice. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 15:55:22 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 07:55:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: , , <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. Many > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > really shows. > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > their potential business because of it. > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not an > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > additional sales you get because of it. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > Doug > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > >> > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > >> > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > >> > >> > >> -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Nov 30 16:14:31 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 23:14:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic Message-ID: Hi Stuart Also, it's a marketing boo-boo to offer old versions at reduced prices. Who want's an old version? Name them instead something like silver, gold, platinum, and plutonium; or student (free of course), entry, basic, and pro - you know - and feature a comparison chart where you easily can see what you miss when buying a cheaper version. /gustav >>> stuart at lexacorp.com.pg 30-11-2011 22:55 >>> Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. Many > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > really shows. > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > their potential business because of it. > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not an > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > additional sales you get because of it. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > Doug > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > >> > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > >> > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 16:34:01 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:34:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Manning specials during December Message-ID: <08C5E4DE10D44F4A9D364BBB0C976CB3@SusanHarkins> I know some of you buy a lot of technical books, so I thought I'd pass this along. Susan H. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 30 16:45:41 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:45:41 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7E9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> " It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View" Originally coming from the world of XL where you can scale objects up to 400% and ensure everything is perfectly aligned etc, I find the Access Form Designer to be a giant PITA. Why on earth don't they build a zoom function in?? I will never know... *sigh* -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 1:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; > > consoles, hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. > > I don't doubt it will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch > > keyboard built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice > > down and only worry about getting into the general area of where > > they need to be and not getting to a specific pixel. Just consider > > command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 30 16:48:58 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:48:58 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7FB@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yes I use extensively use align - so much so that they are the first tool set I add to any custom toolbar Access, but often you want to do other things where Align is not suitable or the right tool. Sometimes you cannot beat zooming in to see exactly what is going on. I guess coming from a graphics background as well, I find these missing functions rather odd. Like undo with MS office product - what is with that???. Most software manages multiple levels of undo - even after saving. XL even today can barely manage undo in any useful and meaningful way.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 2:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Nov 30 17:36:51 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:36:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com><4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> Message-ID: <2C48F4FFE2824A5E976A662F11F1A70B@XPS> You do know you can change the grid right? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 12:28 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Sometimes the grid it too coarse to get the controls exactly where I want them. But again I use the keyboard - ctrl with an arrow nudges the control - and holding it down moves it continuously. I use that a lot. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 18:54:17 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:54:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> I guess that means; anonymous...without your name. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. Many > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > really shows. > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > their potential business because of it. > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not an > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > additional sales you get because of it. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > Doug > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > >> > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > >> > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > >> > >> > >> -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 19:10:26 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:10:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7E9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7E9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <1780838314E743B796E4C49C30534E26@HAL9007> What's XL? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 2:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 " It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View" Originally coming from the world of XL where you can scale objects up to 400% and ensure everything is perfectly aligned etc, I find the Access Form Designer to be a giant PITA. Why on earth don't they build a zoom function in?? I will never know... *sigh* -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 1:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; > > consoles, hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. > > I don't doubt it will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch > > keyboard built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice > > down and only worry about getting into the general area of where > > they need to be and not getting to a specific pixel. Just consider > > command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 19:21:31 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:21:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <2C48F4FFE2824A5E976A662F11F1A70B@XPS> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com><4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS><92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com><3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> <2C48F4FFE2824A5E976A662F11F1A70B@XPS> Message-ID: <1CEDE83EB1924B5796424DA323938699@HAL9007> No. One of the 75,000 things I have yet to learn about Access since I've only been using it for 15 years. :) R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 You do know you can change the grid right? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 12:28 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Sometimes the grid it too coarse to get the controls exactly where I want them. But again I use the keyboard - ctrl with an arrow nudges the control - and holding it down moves it continuously. I use that a lot. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 19:22:23 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 11:22:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: , <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No, anonymized as in - Details which could identify individuals removed. i.e. without identifying you or Doug or identifying what mailing list it was on. It was clearly from me. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 16:54, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I guess that means; anonymous...without your name. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. > > -- > Stuart > > On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. > Many > > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > > really shows. > > > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > > their potential business because of it. > > > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not > an > > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > > additional sales you get because of it. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > > > Doug > > > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby > wrote: > > > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > > :-) > > > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > >> > > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > > >> > > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dbdoug at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 19:34:20 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:34:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Good idea to pass on the criticism; hopefully he will take it as constructive... Doug On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > No, anonymized as in - Details which could identify individuals removed. > i.e. without identifying you or Doug or identifying what mailing list it > was on. > > It was clearly from me. > > -- > Stuart > > > On 30 Nov 2011 at 16:54, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > I guess that means; anonymous...without your name. ;-) > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:55 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > > > Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > > > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > > > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > > > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. > > Many > > > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > > > really shows. > > > > > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > > > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent > of > > > their potential business because of it. > > > > > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are > not > > an > > > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and > artist to > > > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > > > additional sales you get because of it. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > > > > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > > > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. > Multiple > > > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not > easy to > > > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > > > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > > > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on > it. > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby > > wrote: > > > > > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use > PowerBasic > > > :-) > > > > > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > > > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use > PowerBasic > > :-) > > > >> > > > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > > > >> > > > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd< > http://databaseadviso > > > rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 30 19:41:35 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 01:41:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <1780838314E743B796E4C49C30534E26@HAL9007> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7E9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <1780838314E743B796E4C49C30534E26@HAL9007> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF98A@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Sorry... Short hand for MS Excel. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 12:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 What's XL? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 2:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 " It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View" Originally coming from the world of XL where you can scale objects up to 400% and ensure everything is perfectly aligned etc, I find the Access Form Designer to be a giant PITA. Why on earth don't they build a zoom function in?? I will never know... *sigh* -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 1:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; > > consoles, hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. > > I don't doubt it will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch > > keyboard built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice > > down and only worry about getting into the general area of where > > they need to be and not getting to a specific pixel. Just consider > > command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 20:02:47 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:02:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <27A97464608E4078BCFF03C71C265060@creativesystemdesigns.com> Just checking. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic No, anonymized as in - Details which could identify individuals removed. i.e. without identifying you or Doug or identifying what mailing list it was on. It was clearly from me. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 16:54, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I guess that means; anonymous...without your name. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. > > -- > Stuart > > On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. > Many > > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > > really shows. > > > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > > their potential business because of it. > > > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not > an > > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > > additional sales you get because of it. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > > > Doug > > > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby > wrote: > > > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > > :-) > > > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > >> > > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > > >> > > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 1 10:56:19 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 08:56:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Text field not editable, weird issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I tried all of that, I even put debug.print statements in all of the control events and in various subs that were being called. I found that the condition would occur when the path was taken along the first half of the IF statement. I was able to replicate this problem on another computer using A2003. I changed the code to open a recordset, rather than selecting a row in the listbox and reading values from hidden columns and it now works. Looks like a bug in 2003 that was fixed in 2007. This code works: DoCmd.SetWarnings False Me.lstModelSumm.RowSource = "EXEC dbo.stpSelectTempMach 0" Me.lstPoResults.RowSource = "EXEC dbo.stpPurchasedMachinesByPO '" & Me.txtTranNo & "'" DoCmd.SetWarnings True Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset Set rs = New ADODB.Recordset 'Call the stored procedure, passing it the parameter, returning recordset rs CurrentProject.Connection.stpPurchasedMachinesByPO IIf(Nz(Me.txtTranNo, "") = "", 0, Me.txtTranNo), rs 'Fill in the fields from the returned recordset If Not rs.BOF And Not rs.EOF Then 'code below is the same as sub: PopulateFields Me.txtVendorCode = RTrim(Nz(rs![vendor_code], "")) Me.txtVendorName = Nz(rs![vendor_name], "") Me.txtTranDate = rs![po_date] Me.txtPoStatus = Nz(rs![po_status], "") Me.txtQty = Nz(rs![Qty], 0) Me.txtCostBasis = Nz(rs![CostBasis], 0) Me.txtModel = RTrim(Nz(rs![ItemNo], "")) Me.txtModelID = Nz(rs![ModelID], "") Me.cboLocationKey = CInt(Nz(rs![LocKeyID], "0")) Call cboLocationKey_Change Me.lstModelSumm.RowSource = "EXEC dbo.stpSelectTempMach 1" Me.cmdEnterSN.Enabled = CanAddAnotherMachine() Else 'No records were returned for given tran no MsgBox "The PO number you entered did not return any records", vbOKOnly, "Invalid PO" Call ClearEntryFields End If rs.Close Set rs = Nothing On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Is this the only user or just the only one having problems? Is there a > copy of the ADP on her box or is she accessing it from a network site? If > the app is on her machine, have you done a decompile and recompile on the > app? Once in a while breakpoints will get stuck and only recompiling will > get rid of them. If you comment out all the code in that routine but leave > the shell, does the application run without an error? Is the next control > in the tab order one of the two you're resetting the rowsource on? > > Charlotte Foust > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Tue Nov 1 14:00:44 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:00:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions References: Message-ID: All, I have a couple questions about Import/Export Specifications (Access 2007). Once a specification is set up, is there a way to change the spec other than making believe that you are setting up a new spec? Also, is it possible to get at the spec with VBA code? Thanks, Brad From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Tue Nov 1 14:30:06 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:30:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> Brad, The specs are located in system files MSysIMEXSpecs and MSysIMEXColumns. Since they are tables I suppose you can modify them but probably not easy and you may not be able to write to system files. The name of export Specs is located in the XSpecs table and the ID assigned, then the column definitions and spacing are in the XColumns table by ID number. I think if you look at them you will be able to easily identify what is going on. The ability to show how to un hide them is cleverly hidden by right clicking on the top of the Navigation page and selecting Navigation options. HTH Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:00 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions All, I have a couple questions about Import/Export Specifications (Access 2007). Once a specification is set up, is there a way to change the spec other than making believe that you are setting up a new spec? Also, is it possible to get at the spec with VBA code? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Tue Nov 1 15:16:39 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:16:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions In-Reply-To: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> References: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> Message-ID: I agree about the probable difficulty of modify the specs, but it's simple enough to do it manually. Just start a manual import as usual, select the import spec you want to modify, which does most of the hard work for you, and then make changes to it as needed. Finally save it with a different name with the 'Save As' button on the Import Specification dialog box. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 3:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions Brad, The specs are located in system files MSysIMEXSpecs and MSysIMEXColumns. Since they are tables I suppose you can modify them but probably not easy and you may not be able to write to system files. The name of export Specs is located in the XSpecs table and the ID assigned, then the column definitions and spacing are in the XColumns table by ID number. I think if you look at them you will be able to easily identify what is going on. The ability to show how to un hide them is cleverly hidden by right clicking on the top of the Navigation page and selecting Navigation options. HTH Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:00 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions All, I have a couple questions about Import/Export Specifications (Access 2007). Once a specification is set up, is there a way to change the spec other than making believe that you are setting up a new spec? Also, is it possible to get at the spec with VBA code? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Tue Nov 1 16:05:53 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:05:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions References: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> Message-ID: Bill and Lambert, Thanks for the help. You have answered my questions. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 3:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions I agree about the probable difficulty of modify the specs, but it's simple enough to do it manually. Just start a manual import as usual, select the import spec you want to modify, which does most of the hard work for you, and then make changes to it as needed. Finally save it with a different name with the 'Save As' button on the Import Specification dialog box. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 3:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions Brad, The specs are located in system files MSysIMEXSpecs and MSysIMEXColumns. Since they are tables I suppose you can modify them but probably not easy and you may not be able to write to system files. The name of export Specs is located in the XSpecs table and the ID assigned, then the column definitions and spacing are in the XColumns table by ID number. I think if you look at them you will be able to easily identify what is going on. The ability to show how to un hide them is cleverly hidden by right clicking on the top of the Navigation page and selecting Navigation options. HTH Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:00 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions All, I have a couple questions about Import/Export Specifications (Access 2007). Once a specification is set up, is there a way to change the spec other than making believe that you are setting up a new spec? Also, is it possible to get at the spec with VBA code? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Nov 1 19:45:58 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:45:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions In-Reply-To: References: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> Message-ID: <00bd01cc98f8$ca088890$5e1999b0$@net> I've faced this same "pain": the import file gets changed (unknowingly) and now the import references gets all messed up....and of course, the entire system you built...crashes. Below is good advice. Modifying the system specs sounds easy...but IT IS NOT ! > Just start a manual import as usual, select the import spec you want to > modify, which does most of the hard work for you, and then make changes > to it as needed. Finally save it with a different name with the 'Save > As' button on the Import Specification dialog box. > From pedro at plex.nl Thu Nov 3 09:43:58 2011 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 09:43:58 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> Dear Group, how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". Data Uitv Sub Patient A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 Result Uitv Sub Unique Patient A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 Thanks Pedro Janssen From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Nov 3 04:00:06 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 10:00:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: Hi Pedro First use a query with DISTINCT to remove the double entries like A-ee-101. Then use this query as source in another query whery you group by Uitv and Sub and count Patient. /gustav >>> pedro at plex.nl 03-11-2011 09:43 >>> Dear Group, how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". Data Uitv Sub Patient A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 Result Uitv Sub Unique Patient A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 Thanks Pedro Janssen From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 11:49:07 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 09:49:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> Message-ID: SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > Dear Group, > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > Data > > Uitv Sub Patient > A ee 101 > A ee 101 > A ee 102 > A ff 201 > A gg 301 > B ee 201 > B ee 301 > B hh 501 > > > > Result > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > A ee 2 > A ff 1 > A gg 1 > B ee 2 > B hh 1 > > > Thanks > > Pedro Janssen > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 3 15:53:27 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 06:53:27 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, Message-ID: <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query first to get rid of the duplicates. On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > FROM tblSomeTable > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > > Dear Group, > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > Data > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > A ee 101 > > A ee 101 > > A ee 102 > > A ff 201 > > A gg 301 > > B ee 201 > > B ee 301 > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > Result > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > A ee 2 > > A ff 1 > > A gg 1 > > B ee 2 > > B hh 1 > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 16:07:43 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 14:07:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Only if UniquePatient is the field you're extracting. Just counting the records returned gives you the number of unique patients, and the unique combinations of Uitv and Sub are there in each record. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > > Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query > first to get rid of the > duplicates. > > On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > FROM tblSomeTable > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > > > Data > > > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > > A ee 101 > > > A ee 101 > > > A ee 102 > > > A ff 201 > > > A gg 301 > > > B ee 201 > > > B ee 301 > > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > > > > > Result > > > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > > A ee 2 > > > A ff 1 > > > A gg 1 > > > B ee 2 > > > B hh 1 > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 16:08:39 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 14:08:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable PKID Uitv Sub Patient ----------- ---- ---- ----------- 1 A ee 101 2 A ee 102 3 A ff 201 4 A gg 301 5 B ee 201 6 B ee 301 7 B hh 501 (7 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. I do not see how Jet would be different. David On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > > Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query > first to get rid of the > duplicates. > > On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > FROM tblSomeTable > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > > > Data > > > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > > A ee 101 > > > A ee 101 > > > A ee 102 > > > A ff 201 > > > A gg 301 > > > B ee 201 > > > B ee 301 > > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > > > > > Result > > > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > > A ee 2 > > > A ff 1 > > > A gg 1 > > > B ee 2 > > > B hh 1 > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From garykjos at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 16:18:00 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 16:18:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Well the original example had TWO A ee 101 records and I agree with Stuart that it would return 3 and not 2 for the simple group by with count in the same one. It needs a double query somehow, two group bys the first to eliminate the dups or a distinct to eliminate the dups lest you double count. Count will count ALL the records that it sees won't it? On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:08 PM, David McAfee wrote: > SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable > > PKID ? ? ? ?Uitv Sub ?Patient > ----------- ---- ---- ----------- > 1 ? ? ? ? ? A ? ?ee ? 101 > 2 ? ? ? ? ? A ? ?ee ? 102 > 3 ? ? ? ? ? A ? ?ff ? 201 > 4 ? ? ? ? ? A ? ?gg ? 301 > 5 ? ? ? ? ? B ? ?ee ? 201 > 6 ? ? ? ? ? B ? ?ee ? 301 > 7 ? ? ? ? ? B ? ?hh ? 501 > > (7 row(s) affected) > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > FROM tblSomeTable > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > Uitv Sub ?UniquePatient > ---- ---- ------------- > A ? ?ee ? 2 > A ? ?ff ? 1 > A ? ?gg ? 1 > B ? ?ee ? 2 > B ? ?hh ? 1 > > (5 row(s) affected) > > Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. > I do not see how Jet would be different. > > David > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >> That won't work, it will return 3 ? for A - ee. >> >> Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query >> first to get rid of the >> duplicates. >> >> On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: >> >> > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient >> > FROM tblSomeTable >> > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub >> > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: >> > >> > > Dear Group, >> > > >> > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". >> > > >> > > Data >> > > >> > > Uitv ? ?Sub ? ? Patient >> > > A ? ? ? ee ? ? ?101 >> > > A ? ? ? ee ? ? ?101 >> > > A ? ? ? ee ? ? ?102 >> > > A ? ? ? ff ? ? ?201 >> > > A ? ? ? gg ? ? ?301 >> > > B ? ? ? ee ? ? ?201 >> > > B ? ? ? ee ? ? ?301 >> > > B ? ? ? hh ? ? ?501 >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Result >> > > >> > > Uitv ? ?Sub ? ? Unique Patient >> > > A ? ? ? ee ? ? ? ?2 >> > > A ? ? ? ff ? ? ? ?1 >> > > A ? ? ? gg ? ? ? ?1 >> > > B ? ? ? ee ? ? ? ?2 >> > > B ? ? ? hh ? ? ? ?1 >> > > >> > > >> > > Thanks >> > > >> > > Pedro Janssen >> > > >> > > -- >> > > AccessD mailing list >> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 17:06:03 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 15:06:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I just tried it in Access and it works just like SQL Server. I can email you a zipped mdb On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > Well the original example had TWO A ee 101 records and I agree with > Stuart that it would return 3 and not 2 for the simple group by with > count in the same one. It needs a double query somehow, two group bys > the first to eliminate the dups or a distinct to eliminate the dups > lest you double count. Count will count ALL the records that it sees > won't it? > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:08 PM, David McAfee > wrote: > > SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable > > > > PKID Uitv Sub Patient > > ----------- ---- ---- ----------- > > 1 A ee 101 > > 2 A ee 102 > > 3 A ff 201 > > 4 A gg 301 > > 5 B ee 201 > > 6 B ee 301 > > 7 B hh 501 > > > > (7 row(s) affected) > > > > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > FROM tblSomeTable > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > Uitv Sub UniquePatient > > ---- ---- ------------- > > A ee 2 > > A ff 1 > > A gg 1 > > B ee 2 > > B hh 1 > > > > (5 row(s) affected) > > > > Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. > > I do not see how Jet would be different. > > > > David > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan >wrote: > > > >> That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > >> > >> Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query > >> first to get rid of the > >> duplicates. > >> > >> On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > >> > >> > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > >> > FROM tblSomeTable > >> > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > >> > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > >> > > >> > > >> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > >> > > >> > > Dear Group, > >> > > > >> > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > >> > > > >> > > Data > >> > > > >> > > Uitv Sub Patient > >> > > A ee 101 > >> > > A ee 101 > >> > > A ee 102 > >> > > A ff 201 > >> > > A gg 301 > >> > > B ee 201 > >> > > B ee 301 > >> > > B hh 501 > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Result > >> > > > >> > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > >> > > A ee 2 > >> > > A ff 1 > >> > > A gg 1 > >> > > B ee 2 > >> > > B hh 1 > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Thanks > >> > > > >> > > Pedro Janssen > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > AccessD mailing list > >> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > >> > -- > >> > AccessD mailing list > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Nov 3 17:25:05 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 23:25:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> Message-ID: <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> Pedro, I don't understand your example with the data provided. Could you please tell if you made some typos - especially: Why is the data "A ee 102" not listed or counted in the result, and why is the data "B ee 201" and "B ee 301" listed as a count of 2 in the result? IOW: What's defining a unique entity for the counting in your example: Uitv + Sub or Uitv + Sub + Patient? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af pedro at plex.nl Sendt: 3. november 2011 09:44 Til: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: [AccessD] unique patients Dear Group, how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". Data Uitv Sub Patient A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 Result Uitv Sub Unique Patient A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 Thanks Pedro Janssen -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 3 17:24:22 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 08:24:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, , Message-ID: <4EB31496.30547.4A0CBDE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> WIth the original dataset, not the cleansed one? -- Stuart On 3 Nov 2011 at 15:06, David McAfee wrote: > I just tried it in Access and it works just like SQL Server. > > I can email you a zipped mdb > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > > > Well the original example had TWO A ee 101 records and I agree with > > Stuart that it would return 3 and not 2 for the simple group by with > > count in the same one. It needs a double query somehow, two group > > bys the first to eliminate the dups or a distinct to eliminate the > > dups lest you double count. Count will count ALL the records that it > > sees won't it? > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:08 PM, David McAfee > > wrote: > > > SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable > > > > > > PKID Uitv Sub Patient > > > ----------- ---- ---- ----------- > > > 1 A ee 101 > > > 2 A ee 102 > > > 3 A ff 201 > > > 4 A gg 301 > > > 5 B ee 201 > > > 6 B ee 301 > > > 7 B hh 501 > > > > > > (7 row(s) affected) > > > > > > > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > > FROM tblSomeTable > > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > > > Uitv Sub UniquePatient > > > ---- ---- ------------- > > > A ee 2 > > > A ff 1 > > > A gg 1 > > > B ee 2 > > > B hh 1 > > > > > > (5 row(s) affected) > > > > > > Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. > > > I do not see how Jet would be different. > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan > > > > >wrote: > > > > > >> That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > > >> > > >> Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select > > >> Distinct Query first to get rid of the duplicates. > > >> > > >> On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > >> > > >> > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > >> > FROM tblSomeTable > > >> > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > >> > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Dear Group, > > >> > > > > >> > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > >> > > > > >> > > Data > > >> > > > > >> > > Uitv Sub Patient > > >> > > A ee 101 > > >> > > A ee 101 > > >> > > A ee 102 > > >> > > A ff 201 > > >> > > A gg 301 > > >> > > B ee 201 > > >> > > B ee 301 > > >> > > B hh 501 > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Result > > >> > > > > >> > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > >> > > A ee 2 > > >> > > A ff 1 > > >> > > A gg 1 > > >> > > B ee 2 > > >> > > B hh 1 > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Thanks > > >> > > > > >> > > Pedro Janssen > > >> > > > > >> > > -- > > >> > > AccessD mailing list > > >> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > > >> > -- > > >> > AccessD mailing list > > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gary Kjos > > garykjos at gmail.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 3 17:24:22 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 08:24:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4EB31496.7808.4A0CC6A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You've changed the data set to suit your code, Essentially doing wht the suggested "pre-query" does. The original data was: A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 ... On 3 Nov 2011 at 14:08, David McAfee wrote: > SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable > > PKID Uitv Sub Patient > ----------- ---- ---- ----------- > 1 A ee 101 > 2 A ee 102 > 3 A ff 201 > 4 A gg 301 > 5 B ee 201 > 6 B ee 301 > 7 B hh 501 > > (7 row(s) affected) > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > FROM tblSomeTable > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > Uitv Sub UniquePatient > ---- ---- ------------- > A ee 2 > A ff 1 > A gg 1 > B ee 2 > B hh 1 > > (5 row(s) affected) > > Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. I > do not see how Jet would be different. > > David > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > > That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > > > > Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct > > Query first to get rid of the duplicates. > > > > On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > > FROM tblSomeTable > > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > > > > > Data > > > > > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > > > A ee 101 > > > > A ee 101 > > > > A ee 102 > > > > A ff 201 > > > > A gg 301 > > > > B ee 201 > > > > B ee 301 > > > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Result > > > > > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > > > A ee 2 > > > > A ff 1 > > > > A gg 1 > > > > B ee 2 > > > > B hh 1 > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 3 17:35:46 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 08:35:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> Message-ID: <4EB31742.25998.4AB3CF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No typos, he wants the number of Unique patients having the same Uitv and Sub. A ee has three records, A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 but two unique patients, 101 and 102. Hence: A ee 2 Similary B ee has two unique patients 201 and 301, hence: B ee 2 -- Stuart On 3 Nov 2011 at 23:25, Asger Blond wrote: > Pedro, > I don't understand your example with the data provided. Could you > please tell if you made some typos - especially: Why is the data "A ee > 102" not listed or counted in the result, and why is the data "B ee > 201" and "B ee 301" listed as a count of 2 in the result? IOW: What's > defining a unique entity for the counting in your example: Uitv + Sub > or Uitv + Sub + Patient? Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af > pedro at plex.nl Sendt: 3. november 2011 09:44 Til: > accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: [AccessD] unique patients > > Dear Group, > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > Data > > Uitv Sub Patient > A ee 101 > A ee 101 > A ee 102 > A ff 201 > A gg 301 > B ee 201 > B ee 301 > B hh 501 > > > > Result > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > A ee 2 > A ff 1 > A gg 1 > B ee 2 > B hh 1 > > > Thanks > > Pedro Janssen > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 17:42:50 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 15:42:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <4EB31496.30547.4A0CBDE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB31496.30547.4A0CBDE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Wow, my eyes or mind must have filtered that second line out when typing the records in. SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient PKID Uitv Sub Patient ----------- ---- ---- ----------- 1 A ee 101 8 A ee 101 2 A ee 102 3 A ff 201 4 A gg 301 5 B ee 201 6 B ee 301 7 B hh 501 (8 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient Uitv Sub Patient ---- ---- ----------- A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 (7 row(s) affected) --Either of these work the same, not sure which is faster/better: SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT DISTINCT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > WIth the original dataset, not the cleansed one? > > -- > Stuart > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Nov 3 18:12:12 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 00:12:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <4EB31742.25998.4AB3CF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> <4EB31742.25998.4AB3CF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <2F0D334405F2453A8AD1967A00129D65@abpc> I see - thanks Stuart. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan Sendt: 3. november 2011 23:36 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] unique patients No typos, he wants the number of Unique patients having the same Uitv and Sub. A ee has three records, A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 but two unique patients, 101 and 102. Hence: A ee 2 Similary B ee has two unique patients 201 and 301, hence: B ee 2 -- Stuart On 3 Nov 2011 at 23:25, Asger Blond wrote: > Pedro, > I don't understand your example with the data provided. Could you > please tell if you made some typos - especially: Why is the data "A ee > 102" not listed or counted in the result, and why is the data "B ee > 201" and "B ee 301" listed as a count of 2 in the result? IOW: What's > defining a unique entity for the counting in your example: Uitv + Sub > or Uitv + Sub + Patient? Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af > pedro at plex.nl Sendt: 3. november 2011 09:44 Til: > accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: [AccessD] unique patients > > Dear Group, > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > Data > > Uitv Sub Patient > A ee 101 > A ee 101 > A ee 102 > A ff 201 > A gg 301 > B ee 201 > B ee 301 > B hh 501 > > > > Result > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > A ee 2 > A ff 1 > A gg 1 > B ee 2 > B hh 1 > > > Thanks > > Pedro Janssen > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 18:32:43 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 16:32:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <2F0D334405F2453A8AD1967A00129D65@abpc> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> <4EB31742.25998.4AB3CF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <2F0D334405F2453A8AD1967A00129D65@abpc> Message-ID: You can do this in TSQL, but access doesn't allow it SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(DISTINCT Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > I see - thanks Stuart. > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan > Sendt: 3. november 2011 23:36 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: Re: [AccessD] unique patients > > No typos, he wants the number of Unique patients having the same Uitv and > Sub. > > A ee has three records, > > A ee 101 > A ee 101 > A ee 102 > > but two unique patients, 101 and 102. > > Hence: > A ee 2 > > Similary B ee has two unique patients 201 and 301, hence: > > B ee 2 > > -- > Stuart > > On 3 Nov 2011 at 23:25, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Pedro, > > I don't understand your example with the data provided. Could you > > please tell if you made some typos - especially: Why is the data "A ee > > 102" not listed or counted in the result, and why is the data "B ee > > 201" and "B ee 301" listed as a count of 2 in the result? IOW: What's > > defining a unique entity for the counting in your example: Uitv + Sub > > or Uitv + Sub + Patient? Asger > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af > > pedro at plex.nl Sendt: 3. november 2011 09:44 Til: > > accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: [AccessD] unique patients > > > > Dear Group, > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > Data > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > A ee 101 > > A ee 101 > > A ee 102 > > A ff 201 > > A gg 301 > > B ee 201 > > B ee 301 > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > Result > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > A ee 2 > > A ff 1 > > A gg 1 > > B ee 2 > > B hh 1 > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Nov 3 18:58:48 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 00:58:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net><4EB31496.30547.4A0CBDE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4480900DEA8F48FCB0796163F3E9C492@abpc> Excellent David! As to performance, testing the two queries in SQL Server shows the same execution plan (which doesn't necessarily mean that the plan and cost would be the same with a different and bigger dataset - but I would guess not). Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee Sendt: 3. november 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] unique patients Wow, my eyes or mind must have filtered that second line out when typing the records in. SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient PKID Uitv Sub Patient ----------- ---- ---- ----------- 1 A ee 101 8 A ee 101 2 A ee 102 3 A ff 201 4 A gg 301 5 B ee 201 6 B ee 301 7 B hh 501 (8 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient Uitv Sub Patient ---- ---- ----------- A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 (7 row(s) affected) --Either of these work the same, not sure which is faster/better: SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT DISTINCT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > WIth the original dataset, not the cleansed one? > > -- > Stuart > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 3 23:45:29 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 00:45:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/amd-to-ax-1400-workers-in-cost-cutting-move -2011-11-03 This really vindicates my "experience" recently with an AMD-approved motherboard vendor and AMD-approved BIOS vendor.....and AMD's own Radeon ATI graphics chipset vendor. The whole experience was "HBB" - Horrible Beyond Belief. Mostly software related...drivers...update software....chipset firmware.....and IMHO: A true symptom of all of the outsourcing going on. Low cost, and Low quality. AMD: Syanara...this is my last AMD build. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Thu Nov 3 23:56:50 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 04:56:50 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55CA841@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <> Your link didn't work. I think this is the correct one. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Friday, 4 November 2011 3:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun http://www.marketwatch.com/story/amd-to-ax-1400-workers-in-cost-cutting-move -2011-11-03 This really vindicates my "experience" recently with an AMD-approved motherboard vendor and AMD-approved BIOS vendor.....and AMD's own Radeon ATI graphics chipset vendor. The whole experience was "HBB" - Horrible Beyond Belief. Mostly software related...drivers...update software....chipset firmware.....and IMHO: A true symptom of all of the outsourcing going on. Low cost, and Low quality. AMD: Syanara...this is my last AMD build. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 4 06:53:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 07:53:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> Message-ID: <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> Mark, I'm confused. You had a bad experience with a build, which I can empathize with. However every motherboard vendor out there does 90% Intel stuff and 10% AMD stuff. Getting support from any vendor is a nightmare, Intel or AMD. In the end though it is mostly the MB vendor that is responsible for making drivers and such easily available for their product. The drivers themselves come from the chip vendor but the BIOS is the MB vendor's responsibility and the BIOS vendor's responsibility. It sounded to me as if had you gone with a "modern" motherboard to match your modern everything else you would likely never have had this HBB experience. I like AMD, but I do not consider myself a fanboy. I came very close to building an Intel i7 system this time around just because I needed performance. But I have built almost nothing but AMD over the years and I have never had a HBB experience. In fact IMO the experience has been getting better, especially in the video driver department. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/4/2011 12:45 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > http://www.marketwatch.com/story/amd-to-ax-1400-workers-in-cost-cutting-move > -2011-11-03 > This really vindicates my "experience" recently with an AMD-approved > motherboard vendor and AMD-approved BIOS vendor.....and AMD's own Radeon ATI > graphics chipset vendor. > The whole experience was "HBB" - Horrible Beyond Belief. > Mostly software related...drivers...update software....chipset > firmware.....and IMHO: > A true symptom of all of the outsourcing going on. > Low cost, and Low quality. > AMD: Syanara...this is my last AMD build. > > > From marksimms at verizon.net Fri Nov 4 09:30:24 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 10:30:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> Sorry John, but my experience with MSI and AMD were really quite different. They've got this Live Update function for BIOS and Driver updates....you click on a button and the stuff downloads and tells you what needs to be updated. Get this: It has no "Run now" feature...and no link to even tell you or take you to where the downloaded update file is located...I can't find it ! There's nothing to "click on". After my initial frustration, I had to laugh about this..... This is the kind of stuff that occurs with poor technical management and poor beta testing. I researched that motherboard and it got good reviews. I have not been able to update the BIOS because of the above, and I cannot update the SSD firmware either as this motherboard does not behave well with SSD drives...and I am NOT going to reinstall Win7 all over again just to accommodate AHCI mode of operation when in fact, no one has been able to tell me how much advantage over IDE it would achieve. I guess I am the "poster child" for a software guy trying to do hardware stuff. Heck, I should have hired you instead ! From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 4 10:28:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:28:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> Message-ID: <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, I don't sell that kind of service (for a reason!) I absolutely understand the frustration but I guess my point is that "I'm done with AMD" is kind of mis-directed. Each motherboard manufacturer is responsible for their web site (which you are having problems with) and providing updates for the bios, drivers and utilities. I can tell you from similar experiences that all the manufacturer web sites pretty much suck. I have done this ASUS for the last build and had the same experience - and ASUS is one of the big boys! But if you had bought an older Intel MB you probably would have hit that exact same brick wall. I do feel your pain though. If we don't have a lot of money to spend it is beyond frustrating to carefully research stuff only to hit these kinds of issues. And it is extremely disconcerting to be placed in such a situation. One of the things that is always recommended is to do the build as quickly as you can and within the 30 day period where you can send stuff back if it doesn't work. If this build were me I would be sending the MB back and moving to another mb. Maybe a different manufacturer, but definitely newer mb. My build experience is long and varied. The last non-laptop computer I purchased was 1989. I have built every single computer since then, and I have probably averaged at least one every couple of years. Or at least a major upgrade. As an example I built two "servers" back in 2004 for handling the SQL Server database client. The technology I could afford at the time was AMD 3800 (single core), 4 gigs RAM, Windows 2003 X32 and SQL Server 2000 X32. From there I upgraded the processor to dual core. I then replaced the motherboard and moved to a quad core, upgraded to Windows 2003 X64 and upgraded my memory to 8 gigs. Then I upgraded to 16 gigs. Last year I built an entirely new system with a dual socket AMD with only one 8 core processor (one socket populated) and 16 gigs of memory. Then 32 gigs of memory. Then populated the other socket with another 8 core chip and 32 gigs of memory. So I kind of do things piece meal as I can afford them. But clear in all of this is the concept of a modern AMD motherboard. The modern (at the time of build) motherboard allows me to upgrade the other pieces for several years. My experience over the years is that no system will last more than about 5 years *for our purposes*, after which I have needed to upgrade the power supply and motherboard, usually keeping the old processor and memory then upgrading those pieces later. This latest build was for my VM server, and I made the switch from DDR2 to DDR3 memory which required a new motherboard, but the AMD processor had a controller that "just worked" with the new DDR3 ram. The old processor "just worked" placing it into a brand new AM3+ motherboard. I just gave away my old AM2+ motherboard to Paul (my programmer) who built an Unraid server with it for his house. I tend to be able to "repurpose" my AMD systems for a long time handing them down to systems with lower requirements than my dev machines and servers. I like AMD for that reason. Intel (and I admit I don't have a ton of experience) seems to require more frequent motherboard / cpu changes. It feels like if you change the (Intel) processor you probably have to change the mb and if you change the mb you will probably have to change the processor. Anyway, all I can offer is my condolences. You seem to be stuck now. If you have any friends close by perhaps they could help you get your SSD updated? John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/4/2011 10:30 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Sorry John, but my experience with MSI and AMD were really quite different. > They've got this Live Update function for BIOS and Driver updates....you > click on a button and the stuff downloads and tells you what needs to be > updated. > Get this: It has no "Run now" feature...and no link to even tell you or take > you to where the downloaded update file is located...I can't find it ! > There's nothing to "click on". > After my initial frustration, I had to laugh about this..... > This is the kind of stuff that occurs with poor technical management and > poor beta testing. > > I researched that motherboard and it got good reviews. I have not been able > to update the BIOS because of the above, and I cannot update the SSD > firmware either as this motherboard does not behave well with SSD > drives...and I am NOT going to reinstall Win7 all over again just to > accommodate AHCI mode of operation when in fact, no one has been able to > tell me how much advantage over IDE it would achieve. > > I guess I am the "poster child" for a software guy trying to do hardware > stuff. > Heck, I should have hired you instead ! > > > From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri Nov 4 13:43:12 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 14:43:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <> Man, licensing costs must be killing you... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 11:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun LOL, I don't sell that kind of service (for a reason!) <> From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 4 16:38:46 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 07:38:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com>, <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com>, Message-ID: <4EB45B66.31477.99D6FF3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> What version numbers really mean: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/04/bofh_2011_episode_17/ From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 05:28:32 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 06:28:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. Arthur On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < Server database client. The > technology I could afford at the time was AMD 3800 (single core), 4 gigs > RAM, Windows 2003 X32 and > SQL Server 2000 X32. From there I upgraded the processor to dual core. I > then replaced the > motherboard and moved to a quad core, upgraded to Windows 2003 X64 and > upgraded my memory to 8 gigs. > Then I upgraded to 16 gigs. Last year I built an entirely new system with > a dual socket AMD with > only one 8 core processor (one socket populated) and 16 gigs of memory. > Then 32 gigs of memory. > Then populated the other socket with another 8 core chip and 32 gigs of > memory.>> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 5 09:06:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 10:06:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. LOL, I dream of winning the powerball just like the rest. I actually borrowed $5000 as a business loan from my mother to build the first two servers in 2004 in order to get this client. In the first 16 months I grossed 10K and I was beginning to wonder if this client was ever going to "pay off". I did everything on SQL Server completely manually and learned as I went. SSMS was my biggest "enemy" as I struggled to figure out how do do all this stuff. Understand that while I had recovered the cost of the hardware I was spending massive time "off the clock" learning how to do sql server and stuff. I was extremely broke at that point and when the client asked "can you do this" I said "YES I CAN!" but hadn't a clue how I was going to do it. I would bet I grossed about $10 an hour those first 16 months on that client's work. I got the client in the first place because his business was with a company that gave him bad service. He was "small potatoes" to this big service company and they would take days to give him counts and pass him from person to person within the company to service his account. It was the fact that I did all of that prep and gave the client immediate service that caused him to eventually give me all of the business that had been with this other company. In the next three years my gross from him increased 20K a year as I gave him what he needed and he placed more and more of his business with me. In addition to all that I took C# and have since designed a custom application to automate the tasks that I have to do for him. Now I actually bill for every hour spent and I even bill for "jobs" which take almost no manual labor. Over the years my client has directly paid about 50% of the direct costs of the servers. When I just didn't have the cash for $2K worth of raid controllers and disks I asked him to write a check for that and he did. I didn't have the cash for the new server so he paid the up front cost to build the machine. I later purchased additional memory, SSDS and such. Understand that in the end, the client pays for everything, since anything that I buy comes after I pay my bills. It wasn't hard to convince the client that his needs required more than a quad core and 16 gigs of memory. I am doing sql kind of stuff, performing where clauses on as many as 20 fields at a time on tens of millions of rows, and joining together tables with tens of millions of rows, in order to get result sets of millions of rows which get exported to disk as fixed width files and csv files. My poor quad core 16 gig machine was struggling! SQL Server is incredibly efficient and the more cores and the more memory you throw at it the faster it gets. By moving to compression I decreased the size on disk, decreased the disk I/O to get this stuff into memory and decreased the footprint of the data in memory so more stuff is loaded at a time, but you need processor power to do the decompression as the data is used in memory. 16 cores, 64 gigs and compression allows me to literally load all of the relevant fields for the tables I am working with and turn my system into an "in memory database". Even then it can take minutes to do some of the pieces of the processes I perform. >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. I would say that my client is solidly in that 1%, but I certainly am not. The machines I have are just a requirement of the work that I do, not an indicator of wealth. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/5/2011 6:28 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single > duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about > lately LOL. > > Arthur > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > >> <> Server database client. The >> technology I could afford at the time was AMD 3800 (single core), 4 gigs >> RAM, Windows 2003 X32 and >> SQL Server 2000 X32. From there I upgraded the processor to dual core. I >> then replaced the >> motherboard and moved to a quad core, upgraded to Windows 2003 X64 and >> upgraded my memory to 8 gigs. >> Then I upgraded to 16 gigs. Last year I built an entirely new system with >> a dual socket AMD with >> only one 8 core processor (one socket populated) and 16 gigs of memory. >> Then 32 gigs of memory. >> Then populated the other socket with another 8 core chip and 32 gigs of >> memory.>> >> >> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 09:16:33 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 10:16:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I hear ya! Welcome back to the 99% LOL. Now if I could only find such a client that would necessitate some serious hardware. Arthur On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:06 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. > > LOL, I dream of winning the powerball just like the rest. > > I actually borrowed $5000 as a business loan from my mother to build the > first two servers in 2004 in order to get this client. > > In the first 16 months I grossed 10K and I was beginning to wonder if this > client was ever going to "pay off". I did everything on SQL Server > completely manually and learned as I went. SSMS was my biggest "enemy" as > I struggled to figure out how do do all this stuff. > > Understand that while I had recovered the cost of the hardware I was > spending massive time "off the clock" learning how to do sql server and > stuff. I was extremely broke at that point and when the client asked "can > you do this" I said "YES I CAN!" but hadn't a clue how I was going to do > it. I would bet I grossed about $10 an hour those first 16 months on that > client's work. > > I got the client in the first place because his business was with a > company that gave him bad service. He was "small potatoes" to this big > service company and they would take days to give him counts and pass him > from person to person within the company to service his account. > > It was the fact that I did all of that prep and gave the client immediate > service that caused him to eventually give me all of the business that had > been with this other company. In the next three years my gross from him > increased 20K a year as I gave him what he needed and he placed more and > more of his business with me. > > In addition to all that I took C# and have since designed a custom > application to automate the tasks that I have to do for him. Now I > actually bill for every hour spent and I even bill for "jobs" which take > almost no manual labor. > > Over the years my client has directly paid about 50% of the direct costs > of the servers. When I just didn't have the cash for $2K worth of raid > controllers and disks I asked him to write a check for that and he did. I > didn't have the cash for the new server so he paid the up front cost to > build the machine. I later purchased additional memory, SSDS and such. > Understand that in the end, the client pays for everything, since anything > that I buy comes after I pay my bills. > > It wasn't hard to convince the client that his needs required more than a > quad core and 16 gigs of memory. I am doing sql kind of stuff, performing > where clauses on as many as 20 fields at a time on tens of millions of > rows, and joining together tables with tens of millions of rows, in order > to get result sets of millions of rows which get exported to disk as fixed > width files and csv files. My poor quad core 16 gig machine was struggling! > > SQL Server is incredibly efficient and the more cores and the more memory > you throw at it the faster it gets. By moving to compression I decreased > the size on disk, decreased the disk I/O to get this stuff into memory and > decreased the footprint of the data in memory so more stuff is loaded at a > time, but you need processor power to do the decompression as the data is > used in memory. 16 cores, 64 gigs and compression allows me to literally > load all of the relevant fields for the tables I am working with and turn > my system into an "in memory database". Even then it can take minutes to > do some of the pieces of the processes I perform. > > > >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. > > I would say that my client is solidly in that 1%, but I certainly am not. > The machines I have are just a requirement of the work that I do, not an > indicator of wealth. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 09:16:33 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 10:16:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I hear ya! Welcome back to the 99% LOL. Now if I could only find such a client that would necessitate some serious hardware. Arthur On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:06 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. > > LOL, I dream of winning the powerball just like the rest. > > I actually borrowed $5000 as a business loan from my mother to build the > first two servers in 2004 in order to get this client. > > In the first 16 months I grossed 10K and I was beginning to wonder if this > client was ever going to "pay off". I did everything on SQL Server > completely manually and learned as I went. SSMS was my biggest "enemy" as > I struggled to figure out how do do all this stuff. > > Understand that while I had recovered the cost of the hardware I was > spending massive time "off the clock" learning how to do sql server and > stuff. I was extremely broke at that point and when the client asked "can > you do this" I said "YES I CAN!" but hadn't a clue how I was going to do > it. I would bet I grossed about $10 an hour those first 16 months on that > client's work. > > I got the client in the first place because his business was with a > company that gave him bad service. He was "small potatoes" to this big > service company and they would take days to give him counts and pass him > from person to person within the company to service his account. > > It was the fact that I did all of that prep and gave the client immediate > service that caused him to eventually give me all of the business that had > been with this other company. In the next three years my gross from him > increased 20K a year as I gave him what he needed and he placed more and > more of his business with me. > > In addition to all that I took C# and have since designed a custom > application to automate the tasks that I have to do for him. Now I > actually bill for every hour spent and I even bill for "jobs" which take > almost no manual labor. > > Over the years my client has directly paid about 50% of the direct costs > of the servers. When I just didn't have the cash for $2K worth of raid > controllers and disks I asked him to write a check for that and he did. I > didn't have the cash for the new server so he paid the up front cost to > build the machine. I later purchased additional memory, SSDS and such. > Understand that in the end, the client pays for everything, since anything > that I buy comes after I pay my bills. > > It wasn't hard to convince the client that his needs required more than a > quad core and 16 gigs of memory. I am doing sql kind of stuff, performing > where clauses on as many as 20 fields at a time on tens of millions of > rows, and joining together tables with tens of millions of rows, in order > to get result sets of millions of rows which get exported to disk as fixed > width files and csv files. My poor quad core 16 gig machine was struggling! > > SQL Server is incredibly efficient and the more cores and the more memory > you throw at it the faster it gets. By moving to compression I decreased > the size on disk, decreased the disk I/O to get this stuff into memory and > decreased the footprint of the data in memory so more stuff is loaded at a > time, but you need processor power to do the decompression as the data is > used in memory. 16 cores, 64 gigs and compression allows me to literally > load all of the relevant fields for the tables I am working with and turn > my system into an "in memory database". Even then it can take minutes to > do some of the pieces of the processes I perform. > > > >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. > > I would say that my client is solidly in that 1%, but I certainly am not. > The machines I have are just a requirement of the work that I do, not an > indicator of wealth. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > > From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 5 09:26:40 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 10:26:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance servers is very valuable. However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation running Vista. After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge waste....especially if you've got an SSD. > Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single > duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about > lately LOL. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Nov 5 09:50:54 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 07:50:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FREE! Query Optimizer eBook and SQL Prompt trial Message-ID: <8A00F47ACBF34238821DAE14333B68F3@HAL9007> FYI http://www.red-gate.com/products/sql-development/sql-prompt/entrypage/sql-qu ery-optimizer-ebook?utm_source=dbw &utm_medium=email&utm_content=queryoptimizer1-20111106&utm_campaign=sqlpromp t From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 5 09:54:28 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 10:54:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> Message-ID: <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> I just replaced my Dell m90 laptop with a $600 Toshiba with an AMD A6-3650 quad core and 6 gigs of RAM. The laptop clocks the cores at around 1.4 g but they can automatically overclock up to about 2.1 g (I think). I then run a virtual machine server with a quad core AMD clocked at 3.3 g and each VM (there are three main VMs) is given a single core and anywhere from 3 gigs to 6 gigs of ram. I have a vmDev virtual machine which has 4 gigs and both Paul and I do our development on that machine, simultaneously, using remote desktop to get at the vm. So a single 3.3 g core and 4 gigs is adequately supporting two developers. I can if I want do my dev directly on my laptop, and the 4 cores are noticeably faster but not enough to make me prefer that to working in vmDev. > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge waste....especially if you've got an SSD. Or a gaming machine. If you were developing big C# programs then more memory would help. At the price of memory today I think 8 gigs is the new norm for development. An SSD also makes an enormous difference though. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/5/2011 10:26 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance > servers is very valuable. > However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core > processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. > I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation > running Vista. > After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even > that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. > I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY > SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge > waste....especially if you've got an SSD. > >> Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single >> duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about >> lately LOL. > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 09:57:23 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 10:57:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> Message-ID: I beg to differ. When running VirtualBox or Hyper-V or any similar product on a 64-bit OS, the more RAM the better. As a semi-retired person, I'm getting by with a mere 4GB and I run Ubuntu Linux as a VirtualBox VM while running Windows 7 as the main OS, and it works well even with only 4GB of RAM. My main problem is how to install an instance of Windows XP as a VM inside VirtualBox. On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance > servers is very valuable. > However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core > processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. > I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation > running Vista. > After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even > that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. > I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY > SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a > huge > waste....especially if you've got an SSD. > > > Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single > > duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about > > lately LOL. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 5 10:18:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 01:18:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com>, <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net>, <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB553B2.10335.D675AA3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I'd go with the 8 GB too, mainly for multiple VMs to test developments under different OS and Access versions -- Stuart On 5 Nov 2011 at 10:54, jwcolby wrote: > > > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM > is a huge waste....especially > if you've got an SSD. > > Or a gaming machine. If you were developing big C# programs then more > memory would help. At the price of memory today I think 8 gigs is the > new norm for development. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 5 11:12:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 12:12:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB56077.7050100@colbyconsulting.com> Did you know that Windows 7 can use an SSD as ready boost? If you are using the SSD as the boot drive and loading everything off of that this will not help, but I have an old 30 g SSD which I put out in one of my WMC systems (tv) and assigned part of it for ready boost and it makes everything much snappier. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/5/2011 10:54 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I just replaced my Dell m90 laptop with a $600 Toshiba with an AMD A6-3650 quad core and 6 gigs of > RAM. The laptop clocks the cores at around 1.4 g but they can automatically overclock up to about > 2.1 g (I think). I then run a virtual machine server with a quad core AMD clocked at 3.3 g and each > VM (there are three main VMs) is given a single core and anywhere from 3 gigs to 6 gigs of ram. > > I have a vmDev virtual machine which has 4 gigs and both Paul and I do our development on that > machine, simultaneously, using remote desktop to get at the vm. So a single 3.3 g core and 4 gigs is > adequately supporting two developers. I can if I want do my dev directly on my laptop, and the 4 > cores are noticeably faster but not enough to make me prefer that to working in vmDev. > > > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge waste....especially > if you've got an SSD. > > Or a gaming machine. If you were developing big C# programs then more memory would help. At the > price of memory today I think 8 gigs is the new norm for development. > > An SSD also makes an enormous difference though. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/5/2011 10:26 AM, Mark Simms wrote: >> There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance >> servers is very valuable. >> However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core >> processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. >> I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation >> running Vista. >> After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even >> that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. >> I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY >> SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. >> Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge >> waste....especially if you've got an SSD. >> >>> Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single >>> duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about >>> lately LOL. >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 5 11:14:46 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 12:14:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> Message-ID: <4EB560F6.2080902@colbyconsulting.com> No one can know another's budget but (in the US anyway) 8 gigs of ram can be had for $40 on sale, $50 as a normal price. That is a pretty darned cheap upgrade. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/5/2011 10:57 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I beg to differ. When running VirtualBox or Hyper-V or any similar product > on a 64-bit OS, the more RAM the better. As a semi-retired person, I'm > getting by with a mere 4GB and I run Ubuntu Linux as a VirtualBox VM while > running Windows 7 as the main OS, and it works well even with only 4GB of > RAM. > > My main problem is how to install an instance of Windows XP as a VM inside > VirtualBox. > > On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance >> servers is very valuable. >> However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core >> processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. >> I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation >> running Vista. >> After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even >> that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. >> I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY >> SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. >> Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a >> huge >> waste....especially if you've got an SSD. >> >>> Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single >>> duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about >>> lately LOL. >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From bheid at sc.rr.com Sat Nov 5 11:57:02 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 12:57:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FREE! Query Optimizer eBook and SQL Prompt trial In-Reply-To: <8A00F47ACBF34238821DAE14333B68F3@HAL9007> References: <8A00F47ACBF34238821DAE14333B68F3@HAL9007> Message-ID: <001201cc9bdb$f0e62720$d2b27560$@sc.rr.com> We use SQL prompt at work (along with several other RedGate tools. I like it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2011 10:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] FREE! Query Optimizer eBook and SQL Prompt trial FYI http://www.red-gate.com/products/sql-development/sql-prompt/entrypage/sql-qu ery-optimizer-ebook?utm_source=dbw &utm_medium=email&utm_content=queryoptimizer1-20111106&utm_campaign=sqlpromp t -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 5 16:29:05 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 17:29:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <004501cc9c01$f277f570$d767e050$@net> Sorry, I should have QUALIFIED this....REAL MACHINE ONLY... Virtual Machine set-up ? Definitely needs much more than 4 gigs...probably 4GB PER VM ! And John got exactly my point: SSD means less DRAM needed. > I just replaced my Dell m90 laptop with a $600 Toshiba with an AMD A6- > 3650 quad core and 6 gigs of > RAM. The laptop clocks the cores at around 1.4 g but they can > automatically overclock up to about > 2.1 g (I think). I then run a virtual machine server with a quad core > AMD clocked at 3.3 g and each > VM (there are three main VMs) is given a single core and anywhere from > 3 gigs to 6 gigs of ram. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 13:55:24 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 14:55:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Q&Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think that I'm going back to Ludy's Piano Sonatas this afternoon. Sure beats TV! Three major hits. Well actually I got sidetracked momentarily by Opera. I'm at this moment listening to Luciano Pavarotti and I understand that young girls your age don't get it, and that's ok, I get it, and it's lonely out here but I can deal with it. Despite popular tastes, opera and string quartets live! Beyond their 200-year time-spans. Yes I love various groups such as Stones and Talking Heads and Clash, but taking the Long Picture, how many of their tunes are going to be played in 100 years? That's the basic definition of classic music, like it or not. One cannot predict the future, one can only guess. That admitted, here are some of my guesses, of music that will be played in 2013. 1. M2O: Miss America. That record will live on and on and on and on. 2. The Beatles: The White Album. That's the best record they ever did. 3. Miles Davis: Kind of Blue. With his transcription of "Concierto de Aranjuez" he got all the love and sorrow all perfectly right. 4. Uakti: Mapa and several subsequent CDs. This trio from Brazil is probably my favourite world-music group. 5, Swapan Chauduri, IMO the best tabla player that I have ever heard. In the company of G.S. Sachdev, this is music to die for. On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Audra Gonsalves wrote: > Hey you - this dumb ass laptop that I am using keeps going down- guess > it's because his horney nephew used it all night - so going to give it a > break to cool down and then come back to your emails! > > miss and love you - so so miss you me > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 11:42:39 -0400 > Subject: Q&Q > From: fuller.artful at gmail.com > To: audragonsalves at hotmail.com > > > Almost time for Quirks and Quarks. I'm assuming that you at least have the > freedom to listen to cbc. Starts at 12pm and after that comes The Debaters! > So if possible, get near a radio and tune in to 99.1 FM. Bob McDonald has > some cool stuff this week, and the Debaters ditto. > > Used to be an expression, "I'm glued to the tube." In my case, and I'm not > alone in this, I'm glued to the radio. Weekends are the worst part of cbc > radio (I hate blues music and I'm way too tired of Randy Bachman's rock > music choices). Truth be told, I could live what remains of my life without > ever hearing another blues or R&R tune. At this point, I'm solely > interested in music that lasts, and that includes East Indian classical > music (remember when we went to see and speak with G.S. Sachdev and Swapan > Chaudhuri. and previous to that, Zakir Hussain?) > > Lately I'm on a re-acquaintance with the music of Ludwig van Beethoven. > It's so wonderful to hear him again. I have ignored him for decades, but > lately acquired and copied about a dozen CDs containing his magnificent > works. > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 6 16:24:44 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 22:24:44 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Q&Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D0FE6@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yes, I often wonder about that too. Which of today's tracks are going to be listened to, studied and reproduced in 200 years? Of course a lot of it used to come down to luck, what survived the years of fire, wars, fashion and chaos. Perhaps with digital storage that may less of a problem, or more likely (I fear), a real problem (what if the power went off tomorrow, how much IP and data would we instantly & permanently lose?). Anyway I digress. The other thing about some of the classical composers that amazes me was just how prodigious and consistent their output was. Sure the Beatles and stones had a few good albums, but look at Mozart's back catalogue just a one example... The hits keeps coming so to speak. Anyway, an interesting idea to think about. Am am pretty confident that hardly anything in the top 10 pop charts or any given week will be there in 5 years, let alone 200.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2011 5:55 AM To: Audra Gonsalves Subject: Re: [AccessD] Q&Q I think that I'm going back to Ludy's Piano Sonatas this afternoon. Sure beats TV! Three major hits. Well actually I got sidetracked momentarily by Opera. I'm at this moment listening to Luciano Pavarotti and I understand that young girls your age don't get it, and that's ok, I get it, and it's lonely out here but I can deal with it. Despite popular tastes, opera and string quartets live! Beyond their 200-year time-spans. Yes I love various groups such as Stones and Talking Heads and Clash, but taking the Long Picture, how many of their tunes are going to be played in 100 years? That's the basic definition of classic music, like it or not. One cannot predict the future, one can only guess. That admitted, here are some of my guesses, of music that will be played in 2013. 1. M2O: Miss America. That record will live on and on and on and on. 2. The Beatles: The White Album. That's the best record they ever did. 3. Miles Davis: Kind of Blue. With his transcription of "Concierto de Aranjuez" he got all the love and sorrow all perfectly right. 4. Uakti: Mapa and several subsequent CDs. This trio from Brazil is probably my favourite world-music group. 5, Swapan Chauduri, IMO the best tabla player that I have ever heard. In the company of G.S. Sachdev, this is music to die for. On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Audra Gonsalves wrote: > Hey you - this dumb ass laptop that I am using keeps going down- > guess it's because his horney nephew used it all night - so going to > give it a break to cool down and then come back to your emails! > > miss and love you - so so miss you me > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 11:42:39 -0400 > Subject: Q&Q > From: fuller.artful at gmail.com > To: audragonsalves at hotmail.com > > > Almost time for Quirks and Quarks. I'm assuming that you at least have > the freedom to listen to cbc. Starts at 12pm and after that comes The Debaters! > So if possible, get near a radio and tune in to 99.1 FM. Bob McDonald > has some cool stuff this week, and the Debaters ditto. > > Used to be an expression, "I'm glued to the tube." In my case, and I'm > not alone in this, I'm glued to the radio. Weekends are the worst part > of cbc radio (I hate blues music and I'm way too tired of Randy > Bachman's rock music choices). Truth be told, I could live what > remains of my life without ever hearing another blues or R&R tune. At > this point, I'm solely interested in music that lasts, and that > includes East Indian classical music (remember when we went to see and > speak with G.S. Sachdev and Swapan Chaudhuri. and previous to that, > Zakir Hussain?) > > Lately I'm on a re-acquaintance with the music of Ludwig van Beethoven. > It's so wonderful to hear him again. I have ignored him for decades, > but lately acquired and copied about a dozen CDs containing his > magnificent works. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pedro at plex.nl Mon Nov 7 14:47:52 2011 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 14:47:52 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: <201111071347.pA7DlqaZ029887@mailhostC.plex.net> Thanks David, i will try both solutions on the large dataset. I have missed the previous mailings on my topic, because of a holiday i set a stop on the mailings for accessd, and noticed it when i did not received any mailings. Where there any important mailings on this topic other then the ones below? Also the archives can't be consulted. Pedro Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 00:58:48 +0100 From: "Asger Blond" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: <4480900DEA8F48FCB0796163F3E9C492 at abpc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Excellent David! As to performance, testing the two queries in SQL Server shows the same execution plan (which doesn't necessarily mean that the plan and cost would be the same with a different and bigger dataset - but I would guess not). Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee Sendt: 3. november 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] unique patients Wow, my eyes or mind must have filtered that second line out when typing the records in. SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient PKID Uitv Sub Patient ----------- ---- ---- ----------- 1 A ee 101 8 A ee 101 2 A ee 102 3 A ff 201 4 A gg 301 5 B ee 201 6 B ee 301 7 B hh 501 (8 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient Uitv Sub Patient ---- ---- ----------- A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 (7 row(s) affected) --Either of these work the same, not sure which is faster/better: SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT DISTINCT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > WIth the original dataset, not the cleansed one? > > -- > Stuart > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 7 07:58:43 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 14:58:43 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: Hi Pedro My suggestion was: First use a query with DISTINCT to remove the double entries like A-ee-101. Then use this query as source in another query whery you group by Uitv and Sub and count Patient. /gustav >>> pedro at plex.nl 07-11-2011 14:47 >>> Thanks David, i will try both solutions on the large dataset. I have missed the previous mailings on my topic, because of a holiday i set a stop on the mailings for accessd, and noticed it when i did not received any mailings. Where there any important mailings on this topic other then the ones below? Also the archives can't be consulted. Pedro From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon Nov 7 08:12:05 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 09:12:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Q&Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well I remember when I was just a kid my English teacher telling the class that there was just no way those Beatles chappies were ever going to last. 40 years later they are still highly popular, and not just with baby boomers. So who knows what we will be writing term papers about in another forty years. Lambert :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2011 2:55 PM To: Audra Gonsalves Subject: Re: [AccessD] Q&Q I think that I'm going back to Ludy's Piano Sonatas this afternoon. Sure beats TV! Three major hits. Well actually I got sidetracked momentarily by Opera. I'm at this moment listening to Luciano Pavarotti and I understand that young girls your age don't get it, and that's ok, I get it, and it's lonely out here but I can deal with it. Despite popular tastes, opera and string quartets live! Beyond their 200-year time-spans. Yes I love various groups such as Stones and Talking Heads and Clash, but taking the Long Picture, how many of their tunes are going to be played in 100 years? That's the basic definition of classic music, like it or not. One cannot predict the future, one can only guess. That admitted, here are some of my guesses, of music that will be played in 2013. 1. M2O: Miss America. That record will live on and on and on and on. 2. The Beatles: The White Album. That's the best record they ever did. 3. Miles Davis: Kind of Blue. With his transcription of "Concierto de Aranjuez" he got all the love and sorrow all perfectly right. 4. Uakti: Mapa and several subsequent CDs. This trio from Brazil is probably my favourite world-music group. 5, Swapan Chauduri, IMO the best tabla player that I have ever heard. In the company of G.S. Sachdev, this is music to die for. On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Audra Gonsalves wrote: > Hey you - this dumb ass laptop that I am using keeps going down- > guess it's because his horney nephew used it all night - so going to > give it a break to cool down and then come back to your emails! > > miss and love you - so so miss you me > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 11:42:39 -0400 > Subject: Q&Q > From: fuller.artful at gmail.com > To: audragonsalves at hotmail.com > > > Almost time for Quirks and Quarks. I'm assuming that you at least have > the freedom to listen to cbc. Starts at 12pm and after that comes The Debaters! > So if possible, get near a radio and tune in to 99.1 FM. Bob McDonald > has some cool stuff this week, and the Debaters ditto. > > Used to be an expression, "I'm glued to the tube." In my case, and I'm > not alone in this, I'm glued to the radio. Weekends are the worst part > of cbc radio (I hate blues music and I'm way too tired of Randy > Bachman's rock music choices). Truth be told, I could live what > remains of my life without ever hearing another blues or R&R tune. At > this point, I'm solely interested in music that lasts, and that > includes East Indian classical music (remember when we went to see and > speak with G.S. Sachdev and Swapan Chaudhuri. and previous to that, > Zakir Hussain?) > > Lately I'm on a re-acquaintance with the music of Ludwig van Beethoven. > It's so wonderful to hear him again. I have ignored him for decades, > but lately acquired and copied about a dozen CDs containing his > magnificent works. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 11:10:43 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 09:10:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Q&Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My kids would whine when I would play the Beatles in my car. Then the Beatles Rock Band game came out and they were tolerant of the music. We took them to go see the Beatles Love Show in Vegas in January and they loved it. They were asking to hear them on the drive home. ;) On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Heenan, Lambert < Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com> wrote: > Well I remember when I was just a kid my English teacher telling the class > that there was just no way those Beatles chappies were ever going to last. > 40 years later they are still highly popular, and not just with baby > boomers. So who knows what we will be writing term papers about in another > forty years. > > Lambert :-) > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 12:38:52 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 10:38:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg Message-ID: Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Mon Nov 7 12:45:40 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 07:45:40 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Rocky, What I used to use was the Prt Scr key into Paint, and crop what I wanted before copying and pasting into Word. Now with Windows 7 I use the snipping tool. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: >Dear List: > >When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports >into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word >doc manual. > >But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > >Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a >jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into >the reports section of my manual. > >Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > >MTIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >858-259-4334 >www.bchacc.com >www.e-z-mrp.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 12:46:43 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 10:46:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alt + Print Screen? On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports > into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word > doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a > jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them > into > the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 12:50:43 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 12:50:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you do print preview of the report and then capture the preview with the PRINT SCREEN key or ALT + PRINT SCREEN for just the active window you could then paste the screens into PAINT and then crop the image the way you want before saving as JPG. If you set your screen for a higher resolution you will get a better end result. GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports > into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word > doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a > jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into > the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 13:05:08 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:05:08 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: When I tried that before, the resolution wasn't high enough - limited by the screen res since it was essentially a screen capture. But that was under WXP. Different with W7? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of newsgrps Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Rocky, What I used to use was the Prt Scr key into Paint, and crop what I wanted before copying and pasting into Word. Now with Windows 7 I use the snipping tool. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: >Dear List: > >When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the >reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on >to the word doc manual. > >But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > >Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably >as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste >them into the reports section of my manual. > >Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > >MTIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >858-259-4334 >www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Mon Nov 7 13:09:41 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 08:09:41 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111107190943.BHXV28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Gary's solution may work - "If you set your screen for a higher resolution you will get a better end result." At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: >When I tried that before, the resolution wasn't high enough - limited by the >screen res since it was essentially a screen capture. But that was under >WXP. Different with W7? > >R > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of newsgrps >Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:46 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; 'Access Developers >discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg > >Rocky, > >What I used to use was the Prt Scr key into Paint, and crop what I wanted >before copying and pasting into Word. > >Now with Windows 7 I use the snipping tool. > >Regards > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >New Zealand > >At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >Dear List: > > > >When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > >reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on > >to the word doc manual. > > > >But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > > >Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > >as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste > >them into the reports section of my manual. > > > >Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > > >MTIA > > > >Rocky Smolin > >Beach Access Software > >858-259-4334 > >www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Nov 7 13:09:21 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:09:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out what is really going on. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 13:13:04 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:13:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35B7DC7082C4477AA1D08EA32AD45654@HAL9007> My screen set to 1920 x 1080 and the image is almost crisp enough but not quite. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg If you do print preview of the report and then capture the preview with the PRINT SCREEN key or ALT + PRINT SCREEN for just the active window you could then paste the screens into PAINT and then crop the image the way you want before saving as JPG. If you set your screen for a higher resolution you will get a better end result. GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 13:15:33 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:15:33 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: I use PrtScr (free) from http://www.fiastarta.com/PrtScr/ It allows you to select any area of the screen to copy, and you can set the default location, type, and quality of the file. Doug On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you > want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture > the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out > what is really going on. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports > into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word > doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a > jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them > into > the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 13:15:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:15:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: I remember now - I used Snagit before but it's on an old XP comp. Bit awkward at this point, but it'll get me there in a pinch. I was hoping maybe in the intervening 5 years something cheap and effective had been developed. I've got a good pdf printer but can't see a way to get it into my word doc. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out what is really going on. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 7 13:23:16 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:23:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: 72 dpi is sort of the maximum with screen capturing, at least traditionally. I am not sure of a way around that or software that can or will capture a higher resolution unless it is reading straight off the video card not the monitor. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg When I tried that before, the resolution wasn't high enough - limited by the screen res since it was essentially a screen capture. But that was under WXP. Different with W7? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of newsgrps Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Rocky, What I used to use was the Prt Scr key into Paint, and crop what I wanted before copying and pasting into Word. Now with Windows 7 I use the snipping tool. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: >Dear List: > >When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the >reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on >to the word doc manual. > >But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > >Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably >as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste >them into the reports section of my manual. > >Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > >MTIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >858-259-4334 >www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 13:33:30 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:33:30 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: here's a thread from December 2008 where you asked the same question. Unfortunately it refers to a message in the archives..... ------------------------------------------------------------ David: That was it. Thanks. I have it on my rig and tried it but couldn't seem to get it to work right. Got it all straightened out now. Getting old sucks. :) Best, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Beckles Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:50 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reports To File - Hide quoted text - Dear Rocky, I think that you are looking for Print to Picture. Take a look at: http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2006-November/047420.html David ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I remember now - I used Snagit before but it's on an old XP comp. ?Bit > awkward at this point, but it'll get me there in a pinch. ?I was hoping > maybe in the intervening 5 years something cheap and effective had been > developed. ?I've got a good pdf printer but can't see a way to get it into > my word doc. > > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:09 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you > want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture > the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out > what is really going on. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports > into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word > doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a > jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into > the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 13:39:02 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:39:02 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: There are virtual printer drivers that print to JPG.... http://code-industry.net/imageprinter.php GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > here's a thread from December 2008 where you asked the same question. > Unfortunately it refers to a message in the archives..... > ------------------------------------------------------------ > David: > > That was it. ?Thanks. ?I have it on my rig and tried it but couldn't seem to > get it to work right. Got it all straightened out now. ?Getting old sucks. > :) > > Best, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.e-z-mrp.com > www.bchacc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Beckles > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:50 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reports To File > > - Hide quoted text - > Dear Rocky, > I think that you are looking for Print to Picture. Take a look at: > http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2006-November/047420.html > > David > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> I remember now - I used Snagit before but it's on an old XP comp. ?Bit >> awkward at this point, but it'll get me there in a pinch. ?I was hoping >> maybe in the intervening 5 years something cheap and effective had been >> developed. ?I've got a good pdf printer but can't see a way to get it into >> my word doc. >> >> R >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:09 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you >> want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture >> the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out >> what is really going on. >> >> Doug >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> Dear List: >> >> When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports >> into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word >> doc manual. >> >> But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. >> >> Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a >> jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into >> the reports section of my manual. >> >> Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? >> >> MTIA >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> 858-259-4334 >> www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 13:47:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:47:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: Per Gary's suggestion, I captured a screen put it into paint and save it as jpg. Pasted it into a word doc but it was fuzzy. Do you think this product will be better? I'm thinking it can't do better than the screen res. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg I use PrtScr (free) from http://www.fiastarta.com/PrtScr/ It allows you to select any area of the screen to copy, and you can set the default location, type, and quality of the file. Doug On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if > you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will > also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into > Google to find out what is really going on. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 14:02:55 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 12:02:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: <879A49D0D6424ACC8A22883F7FAB99AC@HAL9007> Oh, bummer - so close - "this version doesn't support 64 bit systems". :( Image Pro will do it however for $30. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg There are virtual printer drivers that print to JPG.... http://code-industry.net/imageprinter.php GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > here's a thread from December 2008 where you asked the same question. > Unfortunately it refers to a message in the archives..... > ------------------------------------------------------------ > David: > > That was it. ?Thanks. ?I have it on my rig and tried it but couldn't > seem to get it to work right. Got it all straightened out now. ?Getting old sucks. > :) > > Best, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.e-z-mrp.com > www.bchacc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David > Beckles > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:50 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reports To File > > - Hide quoted text - > Dear Rocky, > I think that you are looking for Print to Picture. Take a look at: > http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2006-November/047420.htm > l > > David > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------ > >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> I remember now - I used Snagit before but it's on an old XP comp. ? >> Bit awkward at this point, but it'll get me there in a pinch. ?I was >> hoping maybe in the intervening 5 years something cheap and effective >> had been developed. ?I've got a good pdf printer but can't see a way >> to get it into my word doc. >> >> R >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug >> Murphy >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:09 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if >> you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will >> also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into >> Google to find out what is really going on. >> >> Doug >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> Dear List: >> >> When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the >> reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them >> on to the word doc manual. >> >> But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. >> >> Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably >> as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can >> paste them into the reports section of my manual. >> >> Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? >> >> MTIA >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> 858-259-4334 >> www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 14:10:57 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:10:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: I just did it using IFRANVIEW instead of paint and the results looked pretty good. You have to have the report maximized on your screen when you do the grab though. The more pixels the better. I've got a pretty big monitor here so that helps I suppose. GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Per Gary's suggestion, I captured a screen put it into paint and save it as > jpg. ?Pasted it into a word doc but it was fuzzy. ?Do you think this product > will be better? ?I'm thinking it can't do better than the screen res. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:16 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > I use PrtScr (free) from > > http://www.fiastarta.com/PrtScr/ > > It allows you to select any area of the screen to copy, and you can set the > default location, type, and quality of the file. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > >> I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if >> you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will >> also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into >> Google to find out what is really going on. >> >> Doug >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> Dear List: >> >> When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the >> reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them >> on to the word doc manual. >> >> But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. >> >> Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably >> as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can >> paste them into the reports section of my manual. >> >> Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? >> >> MTIA >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> 858-259-4334 >> www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 7 15:22:28 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 07:22:28 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 7 15:42:38 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 22:42:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg Message-ID: Hi Rocky et al You are a little off-track here. First, JPG is for photos, not graphic arts with fonts. Second, don't write the reports to the screen, write to an image printer like: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer which will print not near-perfect but perfect images in, say, TIFF format or another bitmap format. Use a resolution that will allow you to scale the image of the report to match the resolution of the pages of your manual. We did that back in 1994 using a fax printer that saved the reports to bitmap files suitable for sending by fax. /gustav >>> rockysmolin at bchacc.com 07-11-2011 19:38 >>> Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 16:18:40 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:18:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 16:24:47 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:24:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1D68B1DDDDBC43AE832432EBE35AF6A9@HAL9007> The jpg format worked well 5 years ago when I did the manual. So I didn't really look any farther. Is that the same as Microsoft XPS Document Writer? Trying it now - creates a file in .xps format. But then how to get it into Word? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Hi Rocky et al You are a little off-track here. First, JPG is for photos, not graphic arts with fonts. Second, don't write the reports to the screen, write to an image printer like: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer which will print not near-perfect but perfect images in, say, TIFF format or another bitmap format. Use a resolution that will allow you to scale the image of the report to match the resolution of the pages of your manual. We did that back in 1994 using a fax printer that saved the reports to bitmap files suitable for sending by fax. /gustav >>> rockysmolin at bchacc.com 07-11-2011 19:38 >>> Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 7 16:29:46 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:29:46 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D430E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Don't use paint would be my first suggestion. I have never found it satisfactory with quality. Oddly I usually use XL first as my picture editing tool. Why Excel? 1: You already have XL 2: XL has gobs of room to move stuff around 3: Excel has tabs you can build put many photos in one workbook, or many objects etc. 4: You can visually show in the print margins in the worksheet and then resize or crop the picture to fit the print size - handy. 5: You can add text, arrows, circle and other objects if you want and then save them as a single picture. To convert to a screen grab to a jpg you can just copy and paste as picture. If you have added other objects as well as your screenshot then press F5 (Goto), choose the "Special..." button, select objects. Then copy all the objects and paste as picture. Nice :) I also recommend irfanview (free) as a decent picture editor Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 6:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Per Gary's suggestion, I captured a screen put it into paint and save it as jpg. Pasted it into a word doc but it was fuzzy. Do you think this product will be better? I'm thinking it can't do better than the screen res. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg I use PrtScr (free) from http://www.fiastarta.com/PrtScr/ It allows you to select any area of the screen to copy, and you can set the default location, type, and quality of the file. Doug On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if > you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will > also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into > Google to find out what is really going on. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Nov 7 17:07:48 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 15:07:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> Not sure what the problem is but I have the free version of inrfranview running on a 64 bit machine. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 7 17:28:29 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 23:28:29 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5399@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Ditto, I have it running on two different W7 64 Bit machines without issue. That was just the standard free download too from memory. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Not sure what the problem is but I have the free version of inrfranview running on a 64 bit machine. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Nov 7 17:30:38 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 15:30:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for something that should be simple. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Mon Nov 7 17:49:11 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:49:11 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> Message-ID: <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> I couldn't agree more, Doug. Snagit is fantastic. I just did a rough tally up, and I reckon I have used Snagit already about 10 times today. Converted some PDFs to JPGs and put them into a document. Converted some EPSs to PNGs, made transparent backgrounds and tweaked some colours. Re-jigged and re-sized some logos. Captured and annotated some screen shots to assist with some customer support. I don't know how I'd live without it. :) Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for something that should be simple. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 7 17:51:11 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 09:51:11 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> References: , , <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> Message-ID: <4EB86EEF.22769.1989D0CC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Irfanview does the same sort of thing and is free for personal use. I use it all the time. On 7 Nov 2011 at 15:30, Doug Murphy wrote: > If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money > ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full > screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, > highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you > want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a > little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to > do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, > edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for > something that should be simple. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit > version is $30. > > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] > Report To jpg > > IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. > > Otherwise: > Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from > http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ > > -- > Stuart > > On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > > on to the word doc manual. > > > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, > > probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that > > I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Mon Nov 7 17:56:37 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:56:37 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <92A32D8A28D748A59BEA9DB7EE6D53A8@stevelaptop> Sorry, in my enthusiasm I forget the main point I wanted to make here. :) Back to Rocky's original question, with Snagit you don't open the report preview, and then capture a screen shot. Well, you could, and that would give good results. But Snagit also acts as a printer driver, so best and easiest is to just print the report directly to Snagit, and then you can do what you want with it and save it to whatever image format you want. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Steve Schapel Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg I couldn't agree more, Doug. Snagit is fantastic. I just did a rough tally up, and I reckon I have used Snagit already about 10 times today. Converted some PDFs to JPGs and put them into a document. Converted some EPSs to PNGs, made transparent backgrounds and tweaked some colours. Re-jigged and re-sized some logos. Captured and annotated some screen shots to assist with some customer support. I don't know how I'd live without it. :) Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for something that should be simple. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Nov 7 18:08:31 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 03:08:31 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Message-ID: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> Hi All -- Somehow I can't get the subj working properly. How do you make MS Excel workbook recalculation/charts redrawn implemented there using VBA Automation without SendKeys - could you please post a VBA code snippet? I would like to 1) set MS Excel option of Automatic formulas recalculation off on MS Excel start-up, then; 2) open existing workbook with formulas and charts; 3) get backend db data retrieved into one or more worksheets, which cells are referred in formulas and charts; 4) run recalculation of whole workbook; 5) save workbook 6) set Automatic recalculation option back to its default 'Auto' value... I d not know how to make (1),(6) and(4) working via Automation. Please advise. Thank you. -- Shamil From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 7 18:22:24 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 00:22:24 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... In-Reply-To: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5421@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hi Samil In Excel VBA you need to use the following. You might need to set the excel application first in Access VBA, depending on how you are calling Excel. If you are using an Excel Template, you can just put then xlCalcManual code in the workbook open event instead. 1: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual 4: Application.Calculate or Application.CalculateFull 6: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationAutomatic Now you can either call them from Access VBA or for Excel VBA, depending on how you are controlling XL. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 11:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi All -- Somehow I can't get the subj working properly. How do you make MS Excel workbook recalculation/charts redrawn implemented there using VBA Automation without SendKeys - could you please post a VBA code snippet? I would like to 1) set MS Excel option of Automatic formulas recalculation off on MS Excel start-up, then; 2) open existing workbook with formulas and charts; 3) get backend db data retrieved into one or more worksheets, which cells are referred in formulas and charts; 4) run recalculation of whole workbook; 5) save workbook 6) set Automatic recalculation option back to its default 'Auto' value... I d not know how to make (1),(6) and(4) working via Automation. Please advise. Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 18:26:45 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 16:26:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> Message-ID: <3401A7D5921C44E99DDD3DEDA1C85B51@HAL9007> Oh I was referring to the Image Writer. I've got Irfan - terrific program. But won't work because of screen res - even at 1920 it's a little too fuzzy. I've resurrected Snag It from an old machine and am struggling through generating the reports. Thanks to all Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 3:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Not sure what the problem is but I have the free version of inrfranview running on a 64 bit machine. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 18:28:25 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 16:28:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <0C6AA3743B114C2C9B9B916DD1CD63FD@HAL9007> Agree. Using an old copy now. Save to jpegs. In Word Insert-->Picture-->From File, in it comes. Rotate, resize and Walla. R -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for something that should be simple. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Nov 8 06:16:09 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:16:09 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5421@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5421@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <52B52AC0C97E4A8DA128712A581A312F@nant> Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. MS Excel has also a "sub-option" for 'Manual' recalculation mode: "Recalculate Workbook before saving". I would like it to be switched off by VBA code - and I can't find how. Also even with 'Manual' recalculation mode set manually, and "Recalculate Workbook before saving" set manually to false, when workbook is closed and reopened it gets all its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn - and I wanted to suppress that "automatism" completely. Do know how to do that? Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I could be out of this forum for a couple of days... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: 8 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:22 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi Samil In Excel VBA you need to use the following. You might need to set the excel application first in Access VBA, depending on how you are calling Excel. If you are using an Excel Template, you can just put then xlCalcManual code in the workbook open event instead. 1: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual 4: Application.Calculate or Application.CalculateFull 6: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationAutomatic Now you can either call them from Access VBA or for Excel VBA, depending on how you are controlling XL. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 11:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi All -- Somehow I can't get the subj working properly. How do you make MS Excel workbook recalculation/charts redrawn implemented there using VBA Automation without SendKeys - could you please post a VBA code snippet? I would like to 1) set MS Excel option of Automatic formulas recalculation off on MS Excel start-up, then; 2) open existing workbook with formulas and charts; 3) get backend db data retrieved into one or more worksheets, which cells are referred in formulas and charts; 4) run recalculation of whole workbook; 5) save workbook 6) set Automatic recalculation option back to its default 'Auto' value... I d not know how to make (1),(6) and(4) working via Automation. Please advise. Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 13:04:37 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:04:37 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project Message-ID: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows application project that can be distributed that has a single table of address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely users will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 tables). Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this job?) Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 13:14:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 14:14:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 2:04 PM, newsgrps wrote: > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows application project that > can be distributed that has a single table of address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 > tables). > > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am unsure about the database > part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both of these seem overkill in this > situation - likely users will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 tables). > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution what would be a suitable > solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool > for this job?) > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 13:24:26 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 11:24:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for testing/learning. As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of your computer if you have an older/slower computer. You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no support for forms). You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for you. As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb if you prefer. You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access as the FE. A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). HTH, David On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely users > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 > tables). > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this job?) > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 13:31:24 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:31:24 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <20111108193128.ITIA15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks John, Would 50 fields (mixture of text and numbers) and 200 records be considered small? Not having dealt with XML before, would the idea be to load the table at the beginning of a session and then save it at the end (or at regular intervals)? David At 9/11/2011, jwcolby wrote: >For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > >John W. Colby >Colby Consulting > >Reality is what refuses to go away >when you do not believe in it > >On 11/8/2011 2:04 PM, newsgrps wrote: >>This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >> >>I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple >>windows application project that >>can be distributed that has a single table of address information >>(perhaps being expanded to up to 5 >>tables). >> >>My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok >>but I am unsure about the database >>part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both >>of these seem overkill in this >>situation - likely users will not have either of these installed >>and it seems crazy to include >>runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up >>to 5 tables). >> >>Assuming that a similar application was created for actual >>distribution what would be a suitable >>solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot >>net application not the right tool >>for this job?) >> >> >>Regards >> >>David Emerson >>Dalyn Software Ltd >>Wellington, New Zealand From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 13:36:10 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:36:10 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks David, I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was thinking more of the end users and what they would need. Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed will installing Jet cause problems? David At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for >testing/learning. > >As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only >allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and >dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of >your computer if you have an older/slower computer. > >You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no >support for forms). > >You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to >check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for >you. > > >As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb if >you prefer. >You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access >as the FE. >A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although >you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). > >HTH, >David > > > >On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > > > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows > > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of > > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > > > > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am > > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server > > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely users > > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 > > tables). > > > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > this job?) > > > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 14:05:38 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:05:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: According to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Jet_Database_Engine Jet has been included in every version of Windows from Windows 2000 to Windows 7, and therefore is no longer distributed separately with the Microsoft Data Access Components(MDAC). On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks David, > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed > will installing Jet cause problems? > > David > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for >> testing/learning. >> >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. >> >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no >> support for forms). >> >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for >> you. >> >> >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb >> if >> you prefer. >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access >> as the FE. >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). >> >> HTH, >> David >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: >> >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >> > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple >> windows >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). >> > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I >> am >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL >> Server >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely >> users >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 >> > tables). >> > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this >> job?) >> > >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > David Emerson >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 14:54:55 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:54:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: My last employer used Access or SQL Server backends for their commercial .Net product. Access was included for those clients who weren't ready to go full-blown SQL Server. There was no reason for Access to be installed on the machines at all because the Jet engine was already there and that's all that was required. Charlotte Foust On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks David, > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed > will installing Jet cause problems? > > David > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for >> testing/learning. >> >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. >> >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no >> support for forms). >> >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for >> you. >> >> >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb >> if >> you prefer. >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access >> as the FE. >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). >> >> HTH, >> David >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: >> >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >> > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple >> windows >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). >> > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I >> am >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL >> Server >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely >> users >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 >> > tables). >> > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this >> job?) >> > >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > David Emerson >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 15:10:32 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 10:10:32 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111108211043.PNVI15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks. Looks like I have no excuse not to jump into the world of dot net :-) At 9/11/2011, Charlotte Foust wrote: >My last employer used Access or SQL Server backends for their commercial >.Net product. Access was included for those clients who weren't ready to >go full-blown SQL Server. There was no reason for Access to be installed >on the machines at all because the Jet engine was already there and that's >all that was required. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > > Thanks David, > > > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was > > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed > > will installing Jet cause problems? > > > > David > > > > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for > >> testing/learning. > >> > >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only > >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and > >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of > >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. > >> > >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no > >> support for forms). > >> > >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to > >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for > >> you. > >> > >> > >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb > >> if > >> you prefer. > >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access > >> as the FE. > >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although > >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). > >> > >> HTH, > >> David > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: > >> > >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > >> > > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple > >> windows > >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of > >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > >> > > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I > >> am > >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL > >> Server > >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely > >> users > >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 > >> > tables). > >> > > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this > >> job?) > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > > >> > David Emerson > >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> > Wellington, New Zealand From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 15:15:16 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 07:15:16 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Arghh! I just about lost my breakfast there. :) -- Stuart On 8 Nov 2011 at 14:14, jwcolby wrote: > For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 15:17:14 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 07:17:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108211043.PNVI15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, , <20111108211043.PNVI15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB99C5A.4470.1E233D9A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Other than the fact that it's a bloated PITA and there are much better development environments out there? :-) -- Stuart On 9 Nov 2011 at 10:10, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks. Looks like I have no excuse not to jump into the world of dot net :-) > > At 9/11/2011, Charlotte Foust wrote: > >My last employer used Access or SQL Server backends for their commercial > >.Net product. Access was included for those clients who weren't ready to > >go full-blown SQL Server. There was no reason for Access to be installed > >on the machines at all because the Jet engine was already there and that's > >all that was required. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > > > > Thanks David, > > > > > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was > > > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > > > > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > > > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed > > > will installing Jet cause problems? > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > > > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for > > >> testing/learning. > > >> > > >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only > > >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and > > >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of > > >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. > > >> > > >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no > > >> support for forms). > > >> > > >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to > > >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for > > >> you. > > >> > > >> > > >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb > > >> if > > >> you prefer. > > >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access > > >> as the FE. > > >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although > > >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). > > >> > > >> HTH, > > >> David > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > >> > > >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > >> > > > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple > > >> windows > > >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of > > >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > > >> > > > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I > > >> am > > >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL > > >> Server > > >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely > > >> users > > >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > > >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 > > >> > tables). > > >> > > > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this > > >> job?) > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Regards > > >> > > > >> > David Emerson > > >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > > >> > Wellington, New Zealand > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From kismert at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 15:23:33 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:23:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project Message-ID: > > newsgrps: > ... > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this job?) > > David, Consider SQLite: http://www.sqlite.org/ They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers -Ken From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 15:32:17 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 10:32:17 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> And the reasons for the near hasty exit of your early morning culinary delights? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 9/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >Arghh! > >I just about lost my breakfast there. :) > >-- >Stuart >On 8 Nov 2011 at 14:14, jwcolby wrote: > > > For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 15:36:15 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:36:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB99C5A.4470.1E233D9A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111108211043.PNVI15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB99C5A.4470.1E233D9A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: But tell us how you really feel, Stuart! ;-> Charlotte Foust On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Other than the fact that it's a bloated PITA and there are much better > development > environments out there? :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 Nov 2011 at 10:10, newsgrps wrote: > > > Thanks. Looks like I have no excuse not to jump into the world of dot > net :-) > > > > At 9/11/2011, Charlotte Foust wrote: > > >My last employer used Access or SQL Server backends for their commercial > > >.Net product. Access was included for those clients who weren't ready > to > > >go full-blown SQL Server. There was no reason for Access to be > installed > > >on the machines at all because the Jet engine was already there and > that's > > >all that was required. > > > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > > > >On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks David, > > > > > > > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. > I was > > > > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > > > > > > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > > > > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access > installed > > > > will installing Jet cause problems? > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > > > > > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for > > > >> testing/learning. > > > >> > > > >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it > only > > > >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than > installing and > > > >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life > out of > > > >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. > > > >> > > > >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no > > > >> support for forms). > > > >> > > > >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper > to > > > >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install > it for > > > >> you. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use > an mdb > > > >> if > > > >> you prefer. > > > >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using > Access > > > >> as the FE. > > > >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime > (although > > > >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). > > > >> > > > >> HTH, > > > >> David > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > > >> > > > > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple > > > >> windows > > > >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single > table of > > > >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > > > >> > > > > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok > but I > > > >> am > > > >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use > SQL > > > >> Server > > > >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - > likely > > > >> users > > > >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to > include > > > >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were > up to 5 > > > >> > tables). > > > >> > > > > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual > distribution > > > >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > > >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > this > > > >> job?) > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Regards > > > >> > > > > >> > David Emerson > > > >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > > > >> > Wellington, New Zealand > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 16:13:16 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 11:13:16 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks - more food for thought (lets hope Stuart doesn't choke on this one:-).) At 9/11/2011, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > > > > newsgrps: > > ... > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > this job?) > > > > >David, > >Consider SQLite: >http://www.sqlite.org/ > >They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): >http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers > >-Ken >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 16:19:09 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:19:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Suggesting XML files as a substitute for a database. That is one of the worst possible uses of the "non-solution to a non-problem" called XML -- Stuart On 9 Nov 2011 at 10:32, newsgrps wrote: > And the reasons for the near hasty exit of your early morning > culinary delights? > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > > At 9/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >Arghh! > > > >I just about lost my breakfast there. :) > > > >-- > >Stuart > >On 8 Nov 2011 at 14:14, jwcolby wrote: > > > > > For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 16:23:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:23:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: , , <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB9ABD3.32419.1E5FAD5D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No, I heartily concur with that recommendation. SQLite is an excellent solution for single user applications with moderate data storage needs. -- Stuart On 9 Nov 2011 at 11:13, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks - more food for thought (lets hope Stuart doesn't choke on this one:-).) > > > At 9/11/2011, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > > > > > > newsgrps: > > > ... > > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > > this job?) > > > > > > > >David, > > > >Consider SQLite: > >http://www.sqlite.org/ > > > >They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): > >http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers > > > >-Ken > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 16:24:41 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:24:41 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: That's the reason that I started learning how to program Androids. WM7 dropped support for WinForms and SSCE. Stupid Stupid Stupid. They want developers to redo their apps in Silverlight and XML tables. Not! On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Suggesting XML files as a substitute for a database. > > That is one of the worst possible uses of the "non-solution to a > non-problem" called XML > > -- > Stuart > > > On 9 Nov 2011 at 10:32, newsgrps wrote: > > > And the reasons for the near hasty exit of your early morning > > culinary delights? > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand > > > > At 9/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > >Arghh! > > > > > >I just about lost my breakfast there. :) > > > > > >-- > > >Stuart > > >On 8 Nov 2011 at 14:14, jwcolby wrote: > > > > > > > For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > > > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 16:55:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:55:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108193128.ITIA15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> <20111108193128.ITIA15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB9B375.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> Oh yea, performance on any modern computer would be instantaneous with that little data. It wouldn't scale well though. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 2:31 PM, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks John, > > Would 50 fields (mixture of text and numbers) and 200 records be considered small? > > Not having dealt with XML before, would the idea be to load the table at the beginning of a session > and then save it at the end (or at regular intervals)? > > David > > At 9/11/2011, jwcolby wrote: >> For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/8/2011 2:04 PM, newsgrps wrote: >>> This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >>> >>> I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows application project that >>> can be distributed that has a single table of address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 >>> tables). >>> >>> My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am unsure about the database >>> part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both of these seem overkill in this >>> situation - likely users will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include >>> runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 tables). >>> >>> Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution what would be a suitable >>> solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool >>> for this job?) >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> David Emerson >>> Dalyn Software Ltd >>> Wellington, New Zealand > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 16:57:22 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:57:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EB9B3D2.6040705@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL. I hear ya, I am not a proponent of XML, however for tiny solutions and in particular for learning stuff it works just fine. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 4:15 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Arghh! > > I just about lost my breakfast there. :) > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 16:59:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:59:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB9B43B.6060302@colbyconsulting.com> The nice thing is that you can often switch data stores with minimal code change. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 5:13 PM, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks - more food for thought (lets hope Stuart doesn't choke on this one:-).) > > > At 9/11/2011, Kenneth Ismert wrote: >> > >> > newsgrps: >> > ... >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this job?) >> > >> > >> David, >> >> Consider SQLite: >> http://www.sqlite.org/ >> >> They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): >> http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers >> >> -Ken >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 16:59:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:59:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EB9B465.2000100@colbyconsulting.com> He didn't say a database he said a table. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 5:19 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Suggesting XML files as a substitute for a database. > > That is one of the worst possible uses of the "non-solution to a non-problem" called XML > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 8 17:17:35 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 23:17:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... In-Reply-To: <52B52AC0C97E4A8DA128712A581A312F@nant> References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5421@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <52B52AC0C97E4A8DA128712A581A312F@nant> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D6E04@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hi Shamil. If Excel is in automatic mode when the workbook is opened the calculation will take place before any VBA event fires, so you cannot prevent it. You can switch to manual calc in the workbook_open event but this happens after the workbook is open. If the problem is caused by opening a workbook in a later version of excel than the version that last calculated it, you can apply a registry fix. Note that Excel sets the calculation mode from the first workbook opened in a session: when you open two workbooks, one saved in manual mode and one saved in automatic mode, they will both have the calculation mode of the first workbook opened. So based on this there may be a kludge type workaround. That is to use code to open a blank workbook and set the calculation mode to manual, and then open your 2nd workbook. This should prevent the second workbook for auto calcing on open. I have not tested this, but it should work based on the info above. You can then set calc to manual in your 'real' workbook as part of the open event using Private Sub Workbook_Open() Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual End Sub I will keep poking around. Can you tell me which version of XL you will be using for this? Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 11:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. MS Excel has also a "sub-option" for 'Manual' recalculation mode: "Recalculate Workbook before saving". I would like it to be switched off by VBA code - and I can't find how. Also even with 'Manual' recalculation mode set manually, and "Recalculate Workbook before saving" set manually to false, when workbook is closed and reopened it gets all its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn - and I wanted to suppress that "automatism" completely. Do know how to do that? Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I could be out of this forum for a couple of days... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: 8 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:22 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi Samil In Excel VBA you need to use the following. You might need to set the excel application first in Access VBA, depending on how you are calling Excel. If you are using an Excel Template, you can just put then xlCalcManual code in the workbook open event instead. 1: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual 4: Application.Calculate or Application.CalculateFull 6: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationAutomatic Now you can either call them from Access VBA or for Excel VBA, depending on how you are controlling XL. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 11:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi All -- Somehow I can't get the subj working properly. How do you make MS Excel workbook recalculation/charts redrawn implemented there using VBA Automation without SendKeys - could you please post a VBA code snippet? I would like to 1) set MS Excel option of Automatic formulas recalculation off on MS Excel start-up, then; 2) open existing workbook with formulas and charts; 3) get backend db data retrieved into one or more worksheets, which cells are referred in formulas and charts; 4) run recalculation of whole workbook; 5) save workbook 6) set Automatic recalculation option back to its default 'Auto' value... I d not know how to make (1),(6) and(4) working via Automation. Please advise. Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 17:30:54 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 09:30:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB9B465.2000100@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4EB9B465.2000100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB9BBAE.20364.1E9D9E9F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> He actually said: "single table of address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables)." Once you have 5 tables, you definitely have a database :-) -- Stuart On 8 Nov 2011 at 17:59, jwcolby wrote: > He didn't say a database he said a table. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/8/2011 5:19 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > Suggesting XML files as a substitute for a database. > > > > That is one of the worst possible uses of the "non-solution to a non-problem" called XML > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 17:42:30 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 09:42:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB9ABD3.32419.1E5FAD5D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB9ABD3.32419.1E5FAD5D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EB9BE66.30901.1EA83B6B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> If you decide to go with SQLite, check out the SQLite manager add-on for Firefox, it is a great GUI tool for managing SQLite databases -- Stuart On 9 Nov 2011 at 8:23, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > No, I heartily concur with that recommendation. > > SQLite is an excellent solution for single user applications with moderate data storage needs. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 Nov 2011 at 11:13, newsgrps wrote: > > > Thanks - more food for thought (lets hope Stuart doesn't choke on this one:-).) > > > > > > At 9/11/2011, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > > > > > > > > newsgrps: > > > > ... > > > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > > > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > > > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > > > this job?) > > > > > > > > > > >David, > > > > > >Consider SQLite: > > >http://www.sqlite.org/ > > > > > >They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): > > >http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers > > > > > >-Ken > > >-- > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Nov 9 03:29:06 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 13:29:06 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Forcing_MS_Excel_workbook_to_get=09itsformula?= =?utf-8?q?s=09recalculated_and_charts_redrawn_using_Automation=2E=2E=2E?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D6E04@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> <52B52AC0C97E4A8DA128712A581A312F@nant> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D6E04@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. I' m using MS Excel 2010. I'm working on C# Excel Automation custom solution (in principle/on conceptual COM technology level there is no any difference in coding C# or VBA MS Excel Automation). The task is to have MS Excel workbook opened, run calculations and saved. Easy of course. But workbook recalculations and charts redraw don't work properly/at all. I must note I do use OpenXML SDK 2.0 (http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=5124) to fill workbook's data in "Excel Automation free" mode - OpenXML SDK works with MS Excel workbooks on file/workbook's XML package level providing high level operations to manipulate worksheets cells' data, charts etc. After workbook's data is filled using open XML SDK I do use Automation to open workbook and to run calculations and charts redraw (Open XML SDK doesn't have functionality to run Excel calculations) - and that calculation and redraw do not work (well). It could be side-effect of using OpenXML SDK to fill workbook's data. I will work more on this issue and I will keep posting on my progress. It should be easy task, just missing something I guess... Opening MS Excel workbook using Automation, setting manual recalculation mode and related options are needed mainly for testing. Thank you. -- Shamil 09 ?????? 2011, 03:19 ?? Darryl Collins : > Hi Shamil. > > If Excel is in automatic mode when the workbook is opened the calculation will take place before any VBA event fires, so you cannot prevent it. > You can switch to manual calc in the workbook_open event but this happens after the workbook is open. > > If the problem is caused by opening a workbook in a later version of excel than the version that last calculated it, you can apply a registry fix. > > Note that Excel sets the calculation mode from the first workbook opened in a session: when you open two workbooks, one saved in manual mode and one saved in automatic mode, they will both have the calculation mode of the first workbook opened. > > So based on this there may be a kludge type workaround. That is to use code to open a blank workbook and set the calculation mode to manual, and then open your 2nd workbook. This should prevent the second workbook for auto calcing on open. I have not tested this, but it should work based on the info above. > > You can then set calc to manual in your 'real' workbook as part of the open event using > > Private Sub Workbook_Open() > Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual > End Sub > > I will keep poking around. Can you tell me which version of XL you will be using for this? > > Cheers > Darryl > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Nov 9 05:34:03 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 12:34:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project Message-ID: Hi David I would say that using XML is mostly for fun or if you need to exchange the data directly with "something else" that requires XML. Or if you somehow need manually to view or edit the data independently of your app, as this can be done with an XML tool like the simple and free XML Notepad from Microsoft. Only one file is used, thus all tables will be held in this, but records of these will be separated to fit the hierarchical structure your relations define. Thus, for example, records of order lines will be split to be stored with the orders they belong to, and the orders will again be split to fit the customers these belong to. You can then figure out that any saving of a record forces a rewrite of the full file. This, however, is very fast for small files. My recommendation would be to use the SQL Server Compact Edition. Only a small executable runs it, and SQL syntax is identical to its bigger brothers. Not that you need to write SQL - actually you should avoid it by using higher level coding like DataTables or EF (Entity Framework). Don't forget to sign up with our dba-VB list. /gustav >>> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz 08-11-2011 20:31 >>> Thanks John, Would 50 fields (mixture of text and numbers) and 200 records be considered small? Not having dealt with XML before, would the idea be to load the table at the beginning of a session and then save it at the end (or at regular intervals)? David At 9/11/2011, jwcolby wrote: >For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > >John W. Colby >Colby Consulting > >Reality is what refuses to go away >when you do not believe in it > >On 11/8/2011 2:04 PM, newsgrps wrote: >>This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >> >>I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple >>windows application project that >>can be distributed that has a single table of address information >>(perhaps being expanded to up to 5 >>tables). >> >>My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok >>but I am unsure about the database >>part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both >>of these seem overkill in this >>situation - likely users will not have either of these installed >>and it seems crazy to include >>runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up >>to 5 tables). >> >>Assuming that a similar application was created for actual >>distribution what would be a suitable >>solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot >>net application not the right tool >>for this job?) >> >> >>Regards >> >>David Emerson >>Dalyn Software Ltd >>Wellington, New Zealand From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 9 10:14:43 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 08:14:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a chance to grade their current endeavors. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it-programmer/3622?ta g=nl.e101 Jim From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Wed Nov 9 10:53:34 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 10:53:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I am resurrecting a database I created several years ago in Access 2003. On my custom menu bar on a report I have an icon to export to excel. When it exports there are columns in the excel file that are not in the report or in the query that the report is based on. What might my export to excel button be doing behind the scenes I have forgotten about? If I simply right click on the report and export the correct columns show up. Thanks. Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 11:38:23 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 12:38:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> Yep, I responded..... It might be good for younger, full-timers.... but if you are contracting and competing with the "mudmen", it really stinks...pay-wise. Couple that with the greedy agency "cuts"....and then after-taxes, can you say "slave labor" ? Recent survey shows that contracting agencies are 50% or more staffed with foreigners. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:15 AM > To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues.'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion > concerning MS SQL Server'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem > solving' > Subject: [AccessD] the IT market > > As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a > chance to grade their current endeavors. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it- > programmer/3622?ta > g=nl.e101 > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Wed Nov 9 11:41:48 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 11:41:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: Hi Chester, I've never had good luck exporting reports to Excel. Seems as the column and page headings confuse the export process and it sets up columns in the output file for those. I've sometimes been able to adjust the column and page headings to minimize this problem. But the queries themselves always export great so that is what I do. There also could be a slight variation in the version of the excel file for what is created by the menu driven option verses the code driven way. So perhaps that is catching you. Not much help really for you I'm afraid though. Best of luck getting it working to your liking. GK On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Kaup, Chester wrote: > I am resurrecting a database I created several years ago in Access 2003. On my custom menu bar on a report I have an icon to export to excel. When it exports there are columns in the excel file that are not in the report or in the query that the report is based on. What might my export to excel button be doing behind the scenes I have forgotten about? If I simply right click on the report and export the correct columns show up. > > Thanks. > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 > > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 9 14:07:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 15:07:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> Message-ID: <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> You want to get depressed? This was written in 2004. http://lieberman.senate.gov/assets/pdf/off_shoring.pdf In 2011 the process is just about complete and there are few jobs left. If you lose yours don't expect to get another. And if you get another, don't expect to keep it. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/9/2011 12:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Yep, I responded..... > It might be good for younger, full-timers.... > but if you are contracting and competing with the "mudmen", it really > stinks...pay-wise. > Couple that with the greedy agency "cuts"....and then after-taxes, can you > say "slave labor" ? > > Recent survey shows that contracting agencies are 50% or more staffed with > foreigners. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:15 AM >> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> issues.'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion >> concerning MS SQL Server'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem >> solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] the IT market >> >> As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a >> chance to grade their current endeavors. >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it- >> programmer/3622?ta >> g=nl.e101 >> >> Jim >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 14:26:48 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 15:26:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> The huge problem with any export to Excel is data timeliness....i.e. How "fresh" is the data ? Any time someone opens up the Excel workbook, the question becomes "when was this worksheet last updated from Access ?" An OLEDB Connection to any Access table or query can be generated statically within Excel or dynamically from Access using Excel automation. This guarantees data freshness and synchronization. The kicker is: not all Access Select queries will be addressable from Excel...i.e. when they contain "non-standard" SQL functions like "IIF". (This is another unforgiveable Microsoft "oversight" IMHO - there should have been an exception for Access queries !). In that case, you must go thru a "workaround" in creating a table on-the-fly from the query definition....and then perform an insert from the query result set. Of course the OLEDB connection property is always set to reference the table, not the query. On top of that, you must run that Insert query in the Excel query table BeforeQuery event ..this time with Access automation. Again, that only has to be done if the Select query is complex and not directly addressable via OLEDB. IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries Every time you open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just "there". Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever minutes....even when users are changing the data. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 9 15:02:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 07:02:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> Message-ID: <4EBAEA52.6429.4599C35@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Until you want to email the spreadsheet to someone who is not on your network. On 9 Nov 2011 at 15:26, Mark Simms wrote: > IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge > hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries > Every time you open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just > "there". Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever > minutes....even when users are changing the data. > From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Nov 9 15:02:23 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:02:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> Message-ID: <000b01cc9f22$e0c17120$a2445360$@comcast.net> Hi Mark, When I export a spreadsheet from Excel, I include the Date/Hour/Minute/Second in the name of the file. Just call this function and include the result in the file's name. You could write a timer-based Access sub to output the Excel file every X minutes (and delete the previous file). '-------------------- Public Function CurrentDateTimeString() As String Dim stgHour As String Dim stgMinute As String Dim stgSecond As String Dim dteDate As Date dteDate = CurrentDate If Len(Hour(Now())) = 1 Then stgHour = "0" & Hour(Now()) Else stgHour = Hour(Now()) End If If Len(Minute(Now())) = 1 Then stgMinute = "0" & Minute(Now()) Else stgMinute = Minute(Now()) End If If Len(Second(Now())) = 1 Then stgSecond = "0" & Second(Now()) Else stgSecond = Second(Now()) End If CurrentDateTimeString = Month(dteDate) & "-" & Day(dteDate) & "-" & Year(dteDate) & " " & stgHour & stgMinute & stgSecond Exit Function ErrEx.Bookmark = BOOKMARK_ONERROR End Function '-------------------- Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 2:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to excel The huge problem with any export to Excel is data timeliness....i.e. How "fresh" is the data ? Any time someone opens up the Excel workbook, the question becomes "when was this worksheet last updated from Access ?" An OLEDB Connection to any Access table or query can be generated statically within Excel or dynamically from Access using Excel automation. This guarantees data freshness and synchronization. The kicker is: not all Access Select queries will be addressable from Excel...i.e. when they contain "non-standard" SQL functions like "IIF". (This is another unforgiveable Microsoft "oversight" IMHO - there should have been an exception for Access queries !). In that case, you must go thru a "workaround" in creating a table on-the-fly from the query definition....and then perform an insert from the query result set. Of course the OLEDB connection property is always set to reference the table, not the query. On top of that, you must run that Insert query in the Excel query table BeforeQuery event ..this time with Access automation. Again, that only has to be done if the Select query is complex and not directly addressable via OLEDB. IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries Every time you open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just "there". Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever minutes....even when users are changing the data. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 9 15:05:18 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 07:05:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> Message-ID: <4EBAEB0E.17442.45C7709@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Or, unless you need a snapshot at one point in time. On 9 Nov 2011 at 15:26, Mark Simms wrote: > > IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge > hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries > Every time you open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just > "there". Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever > minutes....even when users are changing the data. > From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Nov 9 15:09:19 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:09:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <4EBAEB0E.17442.45C7709@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> <4EBAEB0E.17442.45C7709@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000c01cc9f23$d9016200$8b042600$@comcast.net> Give everyone a shortcut to an access database that does nothing but export that spreadsheet. The access database should automatically, open, export, and close. Walla! Snapshot in time. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 3:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to excel Or, unless you need a snapshot at one point in time. On 9 Nov 2011 at 15:26, Mark Simms wrote: > > IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge > hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries Every time you > open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just "there". > Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever minutes....even > when users are changing the data. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 9 15:38:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 16:38:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Is Silverlight going away? Message-ID: <4EBAF2DA.4000107@colbyconsulting.com> Hints that maybe... http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/09/8717108-adobe-gives-up-on-mobile-flash-focuses-on-open-web-standards Or maybe not. ;) -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 16:02:44 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 17:02:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <4EBAEA52.6429.4599C35@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> <4EBAEA52.6429.4599C35@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001601cc9f2b$4f78f900$ee6aeb00$@net> That's no problem...as with all Excel linkages that are broken, the most recent data is still there. It's just not going to update of course. > Until you want to email the spreadsheet to someone who is not on your > network. From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 16:06:16 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 17:06:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001701cc9f2b$ce187060$6a495120$@net> Interestingly, the survey results to date certainly confirms this fact: There are no "big bucks" in the profession any longer. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it-programmer/3622?ta g=nl.e101 > > You want to get depressed? This was written in 2004. > > http://lieberman.senate.gov/assets/pdf/off_shoring.pdf > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 9 16:16:45 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:16:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> Message-ID: <0FDE3ECF4B2047588F6490A9203738EB@creativesystemdesigns.com> And the resultant apps are terrible as a cheaply paid IT guy does not give a crap...he or she is not paid to care. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 9:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] the IT market Yep, I responded..... It might be good for younger, full-timers.... but if you are contracting and competing with the "mudmen", it really stinks...pay-wise. Couple that with the greedy agency "cuts"....and then after-taxes, can you say "slave labor" ? Recent survey shows that contracting agencies are 50% or more staffed with foreigners. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:15 AM > To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues.'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion > concerning MS SQL Server'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem > solving' > Subject: [AccessD] the IT market > > As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a > chance to grade their current endeavors. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it- > programmer/3622?ta > g=nl.e101 > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 9 16:26:07 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 15:26:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market Message-ID: <20111109152607.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.60f0f674d9.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> i note that the distribution of responses on the questions is roughly the same. rating scale of 1-5 - responses 2 & 3 getting 75%+ of the votes. So not too informative. wonder if the distribution woud be markedly different for other professions or if this is just a reflection of human nature. R -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [AccessD] the IT market From: "Mark Simms" Date: Wed, November 09, 2011 3:06 pm To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Interestingly, the survey results to date certainly confirms this fact: There are no "big bucks" in the profession any longer. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it-programmer/3622?ta g=nl.e101 > > You want to get depressed? This was written in 2004. > > http://lieberman.senate.gov/assets/pdf/off_shoring.pdf > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 9 16:48:07 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:48:07 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: There are now too many IT people in the market today and schools just keep cranking them out. The market just does not need any more buggy-whip or wagon wheel makers or film developers or video stores...those are all history. We were just lucky we got in early and got ahead. Most of us old guys are either skilled enough to manage the jobs, do them ourselves or are in a position to just retire (A semi-work environment until you really retire, at 85). The young guys are not in very good positions. (As I understand, Drew's position was on the way out as they were looking for a couple of young guys, unattached, that could do a lot of travelling and of course, be paid less...and also would have a full BS or BCS degree) The truth is that the only semi-secure positions are through the government. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 12:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] the IT market You want to get depressed? This was written in 2004. http://lieberman.senate.gov/assets/pdf/off_shoring.pdf In 2011 the process is just about complete and there are few jobs left. If you lose yours don't expect to get another. And if you get another, don't expect to keep it. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/9/2011 12:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Yep, I responded..... > It might be good for younger, full-timers.... > but if you are contracting and competing with the "mudmen", it really > stinks...pay-wise. > Couple that with the greedy agency "cuts"....and then after-taxes, can you > say "slave labor" ? > > Recent survey shows that contracting agencies are 50% or more staffed with > foreigners. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:15 AM >> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> issues.'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion >> concerning MS SQL Server'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem >> solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] the IT market >> >> As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a >> chance to grade their current endeavors. >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it- >> programmer/3622?ta >> g=nl.e101 >> >> Jim >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 18:51:13 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 19:51:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <0FDE3ECF4B2047588F6490A9203738EB@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> <0FDE3ECF4B2047588F6490A9203738EB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <002901cc9f42$d8ecb070$8ac61150$@net> I've witnessed this for sure. I mean, my goodness, my recent experience with MSI and their driver update program... says it all....just incredible. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 5:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] the IT market > > > And the resultant apps are terrible as a cheaply paid IT guy does not > give a > crap...he or she is not paid to care. > > Jim From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 07:14:50 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:14:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version Message-ID: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 07:58:07 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:58:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <004001cc9fb0$c69b51b0$53d1f510$@net> A heckuvan article.... A 2 week discussion over which clothes washer to buy ? Blow your horn while getting a speeding ticket ? Can you say "Obsessive / Compulsive disorder" ? This guy had some "issues". > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:15 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version > > > http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?cu > rrentPage=all > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 08:23:46 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:23:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, Interesting article. Thanks for posting the link. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 08:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?current Page=all -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 10 11:14:08 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:14:08 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Excellent article. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 5:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?current Page=all -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Nov 10 11:28:06 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:28:06 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> It takes a certain kind of person to be Jobs. Obviously he was very OCD and no saint, but, at the end of the day, it's that sort of meticulous attention to detail that has obviously been Apples success. I find it interesting how we often summarize a persons entire life and career in a few short anecdotes, but, in any case, you can look back at many personalities and see that same sort of obsessive behaviour - one that comes to mind of Walt Disney, but history is littered with them. I find it also interesting how we often imbue such people with our own preconceived and simplistic personalities - Jobs as an obsessive narcissist, Gates as a contemplative philanthropist, Zuckerberg as a young, ruthless geek, Brin/Page as quirky academic types, Ellison as a cold elitist businessman, Balmer as a maniac, etc etc? when, in reality, they are a lot more complicated than that and share a lot more in common with each other than we would like to think. This is an interesting paper on such personalities: Narcissistic Leaders: The Incredible Pros, the Inevitable Cons (Harvard Business Review) http://showsupport.typepad.com/odyssey/files/ccc-081208-macoby.pdf - Hans On 2011-11-10, at 5:14 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Thu Nov 10 11:31:25 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:31:25 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7E035@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I figured out what I did on the toolbar. I created an icon that said export to Excel but actually ran a query and then exported the results to excel. Just needed to modify the query it was running. At least we got some good discussion on exporting to Excel. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to excel Hi Chester, I've never had good luck exporting reports to Excel. Seems as the column and page headings confuse the export process and it sets up columns in the output file for those. I've sometimes been able to adjust the column and page headings to minimize this problem. But the queries themselves always export great so that is what I do. There also could be a slight variation in the version of the excel file for what is created by the menu driven option verses the code driven way. So perhaps that is catching you. Not much help really for you I'm afraid though. Best of luck getting it working to your liking. GK On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Kaup, Chester wrote: > I am resurrecting a database I created several years ago in Access 2003. On my custom menu bar on a report I have an icon to export to excel. When it exports there are columns in the excel file that are not in the report or in the query that the report is based on. What might my export to excel button be doing behind the scenes I have forgotten about? If I simply right click on the report and export the correct columns show up. > > Thanks. > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 > > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 11:34:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:34:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 7 / Access 2007 - form events cause error Message-ID: <4EBC0B2F.6050604@colbyconsulting.com> It appears that suddenly this morning Any form with an event causes an error which prevents the form from opening. I have a form which has no events and it opens. as soon as I double click the onOpen and cause the "[Event Procedure]" to be placed in the property the form refuses to open. The error is: The Expression On Open you entered as the event property setting produces the following error: Object or class does not support the set of events. This occurs in any form in any FE. I am sooooo tired of Access nonsense. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 11:36:21 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:36:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] You probably already know this (and now I do too) Message-ID: <4EBC0B95.4030301@colbyconsulting.com> Windows 7 and Access: http://allenbrowne.com/bug-17.html -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 11:48:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:48:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 7 and Access multi-versions security hooey Message-ID: <4EBC0E6A.6090006@colbyconsulting.com> I chose the first solution to modify the one registry key. Opened 2010 Access and then 2003 access (to do the reinstall thing) and I am back in business. http://allenbrowne.com/bug-17.html -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 12:15:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:15:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EBC14C4.2080607@colbyconsulting.com> This is an interesting read, however it would be even more interesting if he would expound every time he throws out a name. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/10/2011 12:28 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > > It takes a certain kind of person to be Jobs. Obviously he was very OCD and no saint, but, at the end of the day, it's that sort of meticulous attention to detail that has obviously been Apples success. I find it interesting how we often summarize a persons entire life and career in a few short anecdotes, but, in any case, you can look back at many personalities and see that same sort of obsessive behaviour - one that comes to mind of Walt Disney, but history is littered with them. > > I find it also interesting how we often imbue such people with our own preconceived and simplistic personalities - Jobs as an obsessive narcissist, Gates as a contemplative philanthropist, Zuckerberg as a young, ruthless geek, Brin/Page as quirky academic types, Ellison as a cold elitist businessman, Balmer as a maniac, etc etc? when, in reality, they are a lot more complicated than that and share a lot more in common with each other than we would like to think. > > This is an interesting paper on such personalities: > Narcissistic Leaders: The Incredible Pros, the Inevitable Cons (Harvard Business Review) > http://showsupport.typepad.com/odyssey/files/ccc-081208-macoby.pdf > > > - Hans > > > > > On 2011-11-10, at 5:14 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >> >> http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 13:21:59 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:21:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another Message-ID: Dear List: I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the target and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 14:06:44 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:06:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error Message-ID: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Dear List: Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second database, the following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' statement. db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the target and tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. and db1 is set to CurrentDb. What am I doing wrong? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 14:10:21 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:10:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net> When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some existing ones updated ? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > Dear List: > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record from > one > database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick tricks for > doing this? I have the path and file name of the target and the table > will > be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 14:13:43 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:13:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 7 / Access 2007 - form events cause error In-Reply-To: <4EBC0B2F.6050604@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBC0B2F.6050604@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <005201cc9fe5$3f59f910$be0deb30$@net> VBA Security set to "Low" ? (not recommended) > > This occurs in any form in any FE. > > I am sooooo tired of Access nonsense. From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 14:16:52 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:16:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> Message-ID: <005301cc9fe5$aff073c0$0fd15b40$@net> He had "issues" alright...but the money was right there beside them. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 14:18:22 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:18:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net> References: <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net> Message-ID: <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that match up. But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I was trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get the right syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a text box. But this is not working: db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that match the source so the source records can all be appended in one swell foop. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some existing ones updated ? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > Dear List: > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick > tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the target > and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 14:19:48 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:19:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: Can you link to the table in the other database and do an insertion using a LEFT JOIN / unmatched query? On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second database, > the > following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' statement. > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & > " > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the target > and > tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. and db1 is set > to CurrentDb. > > What am I doing wrong? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 14:57:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:57:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: <9998F5073CD443FF90873E2888DE6ED4@HAL9007> That would be second easiest solution - after a simple SQL statement. :) Guess I'll go that way next. Tks. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error Can you link to the table in the other database and do an insertion using a LEFT JOIN / unmatched query? On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second > database, the following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' > statement. > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the > target and tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. > and db1 is set to CurrentDb. > > What am I doing wrong? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 15:29:01 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:29:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 7 / Access 2007 - form events cause error In-Reply-To: <005201cc9fe5$3f59f910$be0deb30$@net> References: <4EBC0B2F.6050604@colbyconsulting.com> <005201cc9fe5$3f59f910$be0deb30$@net> Message-ID: <4EBC421D.1010602@colbyconsulting.com> Yep. It is an inability of Access to write to the registry that causes the issue. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/10/2011 3:13 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > VBA Security set to "Low" ? (not recommended) >> >> This occurs in any form in any FE. >> >> I am sooooo tired of Access nonsense. > > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 15:34:17 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:34:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: Does the tblProductStructure already exist? If so, you would have to append records rather than inserting the table. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second database, > the > following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' statement. > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & > " > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the target > and > tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. and db1 is set > to CurrentDb. > > What am I doing wrong? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 10 15:39:42 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 07:39:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> References: , <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net>, <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Any spaces in the target database's path? -- Stuart On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that match > up. > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I was > trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get the right > syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a text box. > > But this is not working: > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & > " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that match > the source so the source records can all be appended in one swell foop. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching keys > from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some existing ones > updated ? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > Dear List: > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick > > tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the target > > and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 10 15:48:54 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 07:48:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007>, <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EBC46C6.14010.9AA9964@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Also, drop the .* after tblProductStructure. On 11 Nov 2011 at 7:39, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Any spaces in the target database's path? > > -- > Stuart > > On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that match > > up. > > > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I was > > trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get the right > > syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a text box. > > > > But this is not working: > > > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & > > " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that match > > the source so the source records can all be appended in one swell foop. > > > > R > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching keys > > from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some existing ones > > updated ? > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick > > > tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the target > > > and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > 858-259-4334 > > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 15:50:25 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:50:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net>, <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <1D2950F21CFE40549C18073826427127@HAL9007> NO - but I tried it with bracketing and same result. Anyway I added a few lines of code and got it working by brute force - couple of DAO recordsets, .AddNew, loop through the source fields --> target field, .Update, walla. Done. Not elegant but effective. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another Any spaces in the target database's path? -- Stuart On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that > match up. > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I > was trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get > the right syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a text box. > > But this is not working: > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that > match the source so the source records can all be appended in one swell foop. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching > keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some > existing ones updated ? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > Dear List: > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any > > slick tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the > > target and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 20:01:02 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:01:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: Rocky, If this is the sql you are using, you need a period here tblBOMReport.* (between the tablename and the asterix. jack On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Does the tblProductStructure already exist? If so, you would have to > append records rather than inserting the table. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin >wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second database, > > the > > following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' statement. > > > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase > & > > " > > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the target > > and > > tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. and db1 is > set > > to CurrentDb. > > > > What am I doing wrong? > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From pedro at plex.nl Fri Nov 11 13:09:45 2011 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:09:45 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] altered query Message-ID: <201111111209.pABC9jws015096@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Group, why does access 2003 mutates a query from: SELECT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, COUNT(Patientnummer) AS UniekePatienten FROM (SELECT DISTINCT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, Patientnummer FROM Data2) Unieke_Pat GROUP BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam ORDER BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam; To SELECT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, COUNT(Patientnummer) AS UniekePatienten FROM [SELECT DISTINCT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, Patientnummer FROM Data2]. AS Unieke_Pat GROUP BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam ORDER BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam; When opening the query in designer mode. Pedro From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Nov 11 10:47:53 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:47:53 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] altered query Message-ID: Hi Pedro Don't know why except that it is good ol' JET SQL syntax. /gustav >>> pedro at plex.nl 11-11-2011 13:09 >>> Hello Group, why does access 2003 mutates a query from: SELECT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, COUNT(Patientnummer) AS UniekePatienten FROM (SELECT DISTINCT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, Patientnummer FROM Data2) Unieke_Pat GROUP BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam ORDER BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam; To SELECT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, COUNT(Patientnummer) AS UniekePatienten FROM [SELECT DISTINCT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, Patientnummer FROM Data2]. AS Unieke_Pat GROUP BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam ORDER BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam; When opening the query in designer mode. Pedro From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Fri Nov 11 11:07:23 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:07:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <1D2950F21CFE40549C18073826427127@HAL9007> References: , <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net>, <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <1D2950F21CFE40549C18073826427127@HAL9007> Message-ID: You missed out the required single quotes.... db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in '" & Me.txtTargetDatabase & "' SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" I.e. the full path to the destination database needs to be surrounded with single quotes. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another NO - but I tried it with bracketing and same result. Anyway I added a few lines of code and got it working by brute force - couple of DAO recordsets, .AddNew, loop through the source fields --> target field, .Update, walla. Done. Not elegant but effective. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another Any spaces in the target database's path? -- Stuart On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that > match up. > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I > was trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get > the right syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a > text box. > > But this is not working: > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that > match the source so the source records can all be appended in one > swell foop. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching > keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some > existing ones updated ? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > Dear List: > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any > > slick tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the > > target and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Fri Nov 11 11:19:46 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:19:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: When appending, it is INSERT INTO TableName(Field, OtherField) In 'X:\SomePath\SomeFile.ext' SELECT Atable.Field, Atable.OtherField FROM Atable But for Make Tables it is SELECT Atable.Field, Atable.OtherField INTO SomeTable IN 'X:\SomePath\SomeFile.ext' FROM Atable But if all fields are being appended you don't need to specify the field names in parentheses So Rocky's solution would in fact be db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in '" & Me.txtTargetDatabase & "' SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" You can find all this out by imply building the query in design mode and then selecting 'Append' or 'Make-Table' fro the menus and choosing the 'Another Database' radio button in the dialog box. Then just look at the SQL Access has built for you. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error Does the tblProductStructure already exist? If so, you would have to append records rather than inserting the table. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second > database, the following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' > statement. > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the > target and tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. > and db1 is set to CurrentDb. > > What am I doing wrong? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Nov 11 12:10:21 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:10:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: References: , <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net>, <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007><4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><1D2950F21CFE40549C18073826427127@HAL9007> Message-ID: <53B73E82B26F462E8169515752FFDCD4@HAL9007> Aha! Thank you. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 9:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another You missed out the required single quotes.... db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in '" & Me.txtTargetDatabase & "' SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" I.e. the full path to the destination database needs to be surrounded with single quotes. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another NO - but I tried it with bracketing and same result. Anyway I added a few lines of code and got it working by brute force - couple of DAO recordsets, .AddNew, loop through the source fields --> target field, .Update, walla. Done. Not elegant but effective. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another Any spaces in the target database's path? -- Stuart On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that > match up. > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I > was trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get > the right syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a > text box. > > But this is not working: > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that > match the source so the source records can all be appended in one > swell foop. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching > keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some > existing ones updated ? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > Dear List: > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any > > slick tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the > > target and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 13:38:45 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:38:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Friday humor:SQL query problem Message-ID: http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Query-of-Despair.aspx Doug From davidmcafee at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 15:05:55 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:05:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Friday humor:SQL query problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I like the comment: "The problem is on page 4, line 27. Isn't that obvious to everyone? " On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Doug Steele wrote: > http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Query-of-Despair.aspx > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Nov 11 15:51:24 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:51:24 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Forcing_MS_Excel_workbook_to_get=09itsformula?= =?utf-8?q?s=09recalculated_and_charts_redrawn_using_Automation=2E=2E=2E?= In-Reply-To: References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D6E04@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- I have solved the issue - it was caused by improper OpenXML SDK 2.0 calls, when fixed C# -> MS Excel automated workbook recalculation started to work OK. Thank you for your help. -- Shamil 09 ?????? 2011, 13:31 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil : > Hi Darryl -- > > Thank you for your reply. > I' m using MS Excel 2010. > I'm working on C# Excel Automation custom solution (in principle/on conceptual COM technology level there is no any difference in coding C# or VBA MS Excel Automation). > The task is to have MS Excel workbook opened, run calculations and saved. > Easy of course. But workbook recalculations and charts redraw don't work properly/at all. > I must note I do use OpenXML SDK 2.0 (http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=5124) to fill workbook's data in "Excel Automation free" mode - OpenXML SDK works with MS Excel workbooks on file/workbook's XML package level providing high level operations to manipulate worksheets cells' data, charts etc. > After workbook's data is filled using open XML SDK I do use Automation to open workbook and to run calculations and charts redraw (Open XML SDK doesn't have functionality to run Excel calculations) - and that calculation and redraw do not work (well). > It could be side-effect of using OpenXML SDK to fill workbook's data. > I will work more on this issue and I will keep posting on my progress. > It should be easy task, just missing something I guess... > > Opening MS Excel workbook using Automation, setting manual recalculation mode and related options are needed mainly for testing. > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 09 ?????? 2011, 03:19 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Hi Shamil. > > > > If Excel is in automatic mode when the workbook is opened the calculation will take place before any VBA event fires, so you cannot prevent it. > > You can switch to manual calc in the workbook_open event but this happens after the workbook is open. > > > > If the problem is caused by opening a workbook in a later version of excel than the version that last calculated it, you can apply a registry fix. > > > > Note that Excel sets the calculation mode from the first workbook opened in a session: when you open two workbooks, one saved in manual mode and one saved in automatic mode, they will both have the calculation mode of the first workbook opened. > > > > So based on this there may be a kludge type workaround. That is to use code to open a blank workbook and set the calculation mode to manual, and then open your 2nd workbook. This should prevent the second workbook for auto calcing on open. I have not tested this, but it should work based on the info above. > > > > You can then set calc to manual in your 'real' workbook as part of the open event using > > > > Private Sub Workbook_Open() > > Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual > > End Sub > > > > I will keep poking around. Can you tell me which version of XL you will be using for this? > > > > Cheers > > Darryl > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 11 17:00:23 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 09:00:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny In-Reply-To: <4EB45B66.31477.99D6FF3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com>, , <4EB45B66.31477.99D6FF3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EBDA907.20512.F126DED@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And a further explanation of licencing: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/11/bofh_2011_episode_18/ On 5 Nov 2011 at 7:38, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > What version numbers really mean: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/04/bofh_2011_episode_17/ > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 11 18:07:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 19:07:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Friday humor:SQL query problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EBDB8AF.1000404@colbyconsulting.com> You laugh. I have a *potential* client which has a peachtree installation. It uses a SQL Server query to pull aggregate data. The queru looks just about like that. And... it is in SQL Server 2000 TSQL which is... antiquated syntax. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/11/2011 2:38 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Query-of-Despair.aspx > > Doug From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 01:12:03 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 02:12:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny In-Reply-To: <4EBDA907.20512.F126DED@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB45B66.31477.99D6FF3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EBDA907.20512.F126DED@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Yikes! Someone has now demanded payments for using my keyboard and mouse. On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:00 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > And a further explanation of licencing: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/11/bofh_2011_episode_18/ > > > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Nov 12 01:18:13 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 00:18:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny Message-ID: <20111112001813.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.ba3509efd7.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Don't let them use it! (English is such an odd language) R -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny From: Arthur Fuller Date: Sat, November 12, 2011 12:12 am To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Yikes! Someone has now demanded payments for using my keyboard and mouse. On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:00 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > And a further explanation of licencing: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/11/bofh_2011_episode_18/ > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 06:27:54 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 07:27:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Country Regions Message-ID: I already have the ISO list of countries. I would now like a list of CountryRegions (thereby sidestepping the issue of whether we call them States or Provinces or Cantons, etc.). Does anyone know of such a list and if so, a download URL? -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 08:26:40 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 09:26:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Message-ID: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012-licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from clients and massive switching to MySQL and the likes. I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Sat Nov 12 09:28:36 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 10:28:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Country Regions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Arthur, This may be a starting point http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2 jack -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 7:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Cc: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [AccessD] Country Regions I already have the ISO list of countries. I would now like a list of CountryRegions (thereby sidestepping the issue of whether we call them States or Provinces or Cantons, etc.). Does anyone know of such a list and if so, a download URL? -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 12 09:39:11 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 10:39:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with Oracle... This is so "Balmer-like". > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more > expensive > > http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012- > licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ > > The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL > Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. > > I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from > clients and massive > switching to MySQL and the likes. > > I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 09:54:27 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 10:54:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Country Regions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks! You're right: it's a starting point. Normalization required LOL. But that said, once I'm finished with the normalization, I'll make the result available for everyone. A. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Jack and Pat wrote: > Arthur, > > This may be a starting point > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2 > > jack > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 10:11:26 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 11:11:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a complete waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, and I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be dealt with in a VM. So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. You don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of December. Wow. Party hearty. Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist government, I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of Lucky MoFus. Arthur On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. > IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the > ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. > Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with Oracle... > This is so "Balmer-like". > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more > > expensive > > > > http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012- > > licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ > > > > The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL > > Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. > > > > I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from > > clients and massive > > switching to MySQL and the likes. > > > > I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 10:47:51 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 11:47:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> Arthur, Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play in MariaDB. Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both times. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. > See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the > last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a complete > waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, and > I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu > and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs > inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so > the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be dealt > with in a VM. > > So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. You > don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a > semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated > December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net > connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of > December. Wow. Party hearty. > > Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist government, > I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of Lucky > MoFus. > > Arthur > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with Oracle... >> This is so "Balmer-like". >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>> expensive >>> >>> http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012- >>> licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ >>> >>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>> >>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>> clients and massive >>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>> >>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 12:35:30 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 13:35:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other sources (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) What I do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: mounts the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far yet On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolby wrote: > Arthur, > > Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V > is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to > switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play > in MariaDB. > > Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in > Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both > times. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > >> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. >> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the >> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >> complete >> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >> and >> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so >> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >> dealt >> with in a VM. >> >> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >> You >> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net >> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >> December. Wow. Party hearty. >> >> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >> government, >> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >> Lucky >> MoFus. >> >> Arthur >> >> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >> wrote: >> >> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>> Oracle... >>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com[mailto: >>>> accessd- >>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>> expensive >>>> >>>> http://sqlserverperformance.**wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-** >>>> server-2012- >>>> licensing-and-hardware-**considerations/ >>>> >>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>> >>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>>> clients and massive >>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>> >>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John W. Colby >>>> Colby Consulting >>>> >>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>> when you do not believe in it >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>> >>> >> >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 13:26:28 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 14:26:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> I am downloading 4 different distros. Every one claims to just fire up and go. We shall see. Of course getting MariaDb to go after that is one more thing to make happen. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 1:35 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that > Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other sources > (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) What I > do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the > downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: mounts > the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) > > Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far yet > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolbywrote: > >> Arthur, >> >> Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V >> is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to >> switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play >> in MariaDB. >> >> Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in >> Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both >> times. >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >> >>> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. >>> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the >>> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >>> complete >>> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >>> and >>> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >>> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >>> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so >>> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >>> dealt >>> with in a VM. >>> >>> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >>> You >>> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >>> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >>> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net >>> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >>> December. Wow. Party hearty. >>> >>> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >>> government, >>> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >>> Lucky >>> MoFus. >>> >>> Arthur >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >>> wrote: >>> >>> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>>> Oracle... >>>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com[mailto: >>>>> accessd- >>>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>>> expensive >>>>> >>>>> http://sqlserverperformance.**wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-** >>>>> server-2012- >>>>> licensing-and-hardware-**considerations/ >>>>> >>>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>>> >>>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>>>> clients and massive >>>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>>> >>>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> John W. Colby >>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>> >>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >> > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 14:30:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:30:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> Fedora just hung showing the pretty submarine. It can't shutdown, power down only. Won't release the virtual cd so that I can install the tools. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I am downloading 4 different distros. Every one claims to just fire up and go. We shall see. Of > course getting MariaDb to go after that is one more thing to make happen. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/12/2011 1:35 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >> I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that >> Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other sources >> (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) What I >> do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the >> downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: mounts >> the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) >> >> Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far yet >> >> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolbywrote: >> >>> Arthur, >>> >>> Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V >>> is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to >>> switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play >>> in MariaDB. >>> >>> Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in >>> Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both >>> times. >>> >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>> >>>> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. >>>> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the >>>> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >>>> complete >>>> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >>>> and >>>> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >>>> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >>>> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so >>>> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >>>> dealt >>>> with in a VM. >>>> >>>> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >>>> You >>>> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >>>> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >>>> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net >>>> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >>>> December. Wow. Party hearty. >>>> >>>> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >>>> government, >>>> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >>>> Lucky >>>> MoFus. >>>> >>>> Arthur >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>>>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>>>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>>>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>>>> Oracle... >>>>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com[mailto: >>>>>> accessd- >>>>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>>>> expensive >>>>>> >>>>>> http://sqlserverperformance.**wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-** >>>>>> server-2012- >>>>>> licensing-and-hardware-**considerations/ >>>>>> >>>>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>>>> >>>>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>>>>> clients and massive >>>>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>> >> >> >> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 14:36:04 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:36:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I was never a big fan of Fedora; same problems as you. Ubuntu and Mint are my chosen paths. A. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 3:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Fedora just hung showing the pretty submarine. It can't shutdown, power > down only. Won't release the virtual cd so that I can install the tools. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> I am downloading 4 different distros. Every one claims to just fire up >> and go. We shall see. Of >> course getting MariaDb to go after that is one more thing to make happen. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/12/2011 1:35 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >> >>> I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that >>> Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other >>> sources >>> (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) >>> What I >>> do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the >>> downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: >>> mounts >>> the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) >>> >>> Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far >>> yet >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolby >>> >wrote: >>> >>> Arthur, >>>> >>>> Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V >>>> is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to >>>> switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play >>>> in MariaDB. >>>> >>>> Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in >>>> Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both >>>> times. >>>> >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> Colby Consulting >>>> >>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>> when you do not believe in it >>>> >>>> On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>>> >>>> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small >>>>> DBs. >>>>> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent >>>>> the >>>>> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >>>>> complete >>>>> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >>>>> and >>>>> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >>>>> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >>>>> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system >>>>> so >>>>> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >>>>> dealt >>>>> with in a VM. >>>>> >>>>> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >>>>> You >>>>> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >>>>> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >>>>> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, >>>>> net >>>>> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >>>>> December. Wow. Party hearty. >>>>> >>>>> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >>>>> government, >>>>> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >>>>> Lucky >>>>> MoFus. >>>>> >>>>> Arthur >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>>>> >>>>>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>>>>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>>>>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>>>>> Oracle... >>>>>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvi**sors.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >[mailto: >>>>>>> accessd- >>>>>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>>>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>>>>> expensive >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://sqlserverperformance.****wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-**** >>>>>>> server-2012->>>>>> wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-**server-2012- >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> licensing-and-hardware-****considerations/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>>>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> clients and massive >>>>>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com>>>>>> databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com>>>>> databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com>>> databaseadvisors.com > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 15:14:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:14:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EBEE1A7.5030700@colbyconsulting.com> OpenSUSE Showed promise. Seemed to install. Turned into a black screen. Shutdown, turned it back on and I am at a pretty green desktop with folder icons. Linux Integration Service doesn't just install... It seems in fact that the Linux Integration Service only works on a small handful of distros. Now I remember why I stopped trying... ;) John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 3:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Fedora just hung showing the pretty submarine. It can't shutdown, power down only. Won't release the > virtual cd so that I can install the tools. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> I am downloading 4 different distros. Every one claims to just fire up and go. We shall see. Of >> course getting MariaDb to go after that is one more thing to make happen. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/12/2011 1:35 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>> I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that >>> Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other sources >>> (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) What I >>> do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the >>> downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: mounts >>> the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) >>> >>> Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far yet >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolbywrote: >>> >>>> Arthur, >>>> >>>> Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V >>>> is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to >>>> switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play >>>> in MariaDB. >>>> >>>> Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in >>>> Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both >>>> times. >>>> >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> Colby Consulting >>>> >>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>> when you do not believe in it >>>> >>>> On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. >>>>> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the >>>>> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >>>>> complete >>>>> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >>>>> and >>>>> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >>>>> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >>>>> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so >>>>> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >>>>> dealt >>>>> with in a VM. >>>>> >>>>> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >>>>> You >>>>> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >>>>> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >>>>> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net >>>>> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >>>>> December. Wow. Party hearty. >>>>> >>>>> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >>>>> government, >>>>> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >>>>> Lucky >>>>> MoFus. >>>>> >>>>> Arthur >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>>>>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>>>>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>>>>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>>>>> Oracle... >>>>>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com[mailto: >>>>>>> accessd- >>>>>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>>>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>>>>> expensive >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://sqlserverperformance.**wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-** >>>>>>> server-2012- >>>>>>> licensing-and-hardware-**considerations/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>>>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>>>>>> clients and massive >>>>>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> >>>> >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>> >>> >>> >>> From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 12 15:16:44 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:16:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> The only problem with open source: Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be competitive ? Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major build is released.... you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I don't know what is. In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. Is anyone cheering ? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 15:31:03 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:31:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBEE597.4030404@colbyconsulting.com> Of course had I used VMWare as the hypervisor none of this would be a problem... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 15:32:10 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:32:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBEE5DA.1090609@colbyconsulting.com> > Is anyone cheering ? Nope, not me. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 12 15:49:24 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 07:49:24 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com>, , <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBEE9E4.2500.13F7D11C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You mean I can get requisite and timely support from MS if I stay with them? ROTFLMAO. -- Stuart On 12 Nov 2011 at 16:16, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 16:04:08 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 17:04:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: JC: SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to suit this; c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that you have the boot discs for same). At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other Linux db. I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack of DVDs). A. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major > build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 12 16:22:02 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 14:22:02 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: You can buy a 2 Terabyte external HD for $89 or less now...will be significantly faster and more flexible than going the DVD route. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 2:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive JC: SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to suit this; c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that you have the boot discs for same). At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other Linux db. I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack of DVDs). A. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major > build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 19:41:14 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 20:41:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBF203A.5030205@colbyconsulting.com> > You can buy a 2 Terabyte external HD for $89 or less now...will be significantly faster and more flexible than going the DVD route. There's someone out of touch with global warming / floods in Thailand. ;) John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 5:22 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > You can buy a 2 Terabyte external HD for $89 or less now...will be > significantly faster and more flexible than going the DVD route. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 2:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > moreexpensive > > JC: > > SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: > > a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or > 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. > b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to > suit this; > c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; > d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox > (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). > e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that > you have the boot discs for same). > > At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to > x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. > > At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so > in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit > (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, > but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native > boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, > isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. > > One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code > can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered > me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a > single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other > Linux db. > > I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when > I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That > gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack > of DVDs). > > A. > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> The only problem with open source: >> Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be >> competitive ? >> Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major >> build >> is released.... >> you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I >> don't know what is. >> In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that >> mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. >> >> MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty > darn >> good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. >> That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many >> major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of >> hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel >> 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. >> The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. >> Is anyone cheering ? >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 20:16:28 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 21:16:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBF287C.9080101@colbyconsulting.com> In fact I have gotten rid of all my old hardware. When I moved to VMs I no longer needed all those other machines. I just upgraded my VM Server to AM3+ and DDR3 but gave the old AM2+ MB and DDR2 memory to Paul to put to work as a Unraid backup system for his house. So I have no extra hardware to throw at this. I am thinking about moving the VMs down to Azul, the mongo 16 core server. Two out of three VMs would reside there quite happily. The third needs high core speed and the server cores run at 2 ghz. Plus it needs fast SSD and I would need to migrate that into the Azul box as well. It really makes sense to host most of my current VMs there but for that one somewhat high requirement system. I haven't given up on the idea but implementing it is not trivial. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 5:04 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > JC: > > SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: > > a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or > 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. > b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to > suit this; > c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; > d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox > (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). > e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that > you have the boot discs for same). > > At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to > x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. > > At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so > in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit > (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, > but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native > boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, > isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. > > One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code > can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered > me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a > single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other > Linux db. > > I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when > I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That > gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack > of DVDs). > > A. > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> The only problem with open source: >> Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be >> competitive ? >> Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major >> build >> is released.... >> you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I >> don't know what is. >> In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that >> mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. >> >> MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn >> good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. >> That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many >> major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of >> hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel >> 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. >> The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. >> Is anyone cheering ? >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Nov 13 11:49:47 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 21:49:47 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?ore_expensive?= In-Reply-To: References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi Arthur -- > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > Everything works just ducky. > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? Thank you. -- Shamil 13 ?????? 2011, 02:05 ?? Arthur Fuller : > JC: > > SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: > > a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or > 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. > b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to > suit this; > c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; > d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox > (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). > e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that > you have the boot discs for same). > > At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to > x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. > > At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so > in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit > (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, > but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native > boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, > isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. > > One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code > can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered > me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a > single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other > Linux db. > > I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when > I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That > gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack > of DVDs). > > A. > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun Nov 13 12:20:29 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 13:20:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. A. On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Arthur -- > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > Everything works just ducky. > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > From edzedz at comcast.net Sun Nov 13 17:44:05 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:44:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AppHangB1 Error for MsAccess 2003 on Windows-7 64 bit Message-ID: <000001cca25e$21a32fb0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Has anyone seen a error like this and has an idea on how to elimate it ? Thanks. . . ====================================================== Someone in another forum asked it it was an HP or a Dell. The machine in question is an Acer, but the AppHangB1 error seems to be endemic to many Office products besides Ms-Access, regardless of make or model of the hardware. Thus my sense is it something more than something an OEM might have installed on the computer. I compress the MDB and even used the /decompile. None of the tables are linked. Office 2003 been upgraded to SP3. The solution in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2397391 method 2, does mitigate the problem, but doesn't eliminate it. One of the choices from the right click on the MsAccess.exe menu is to run in XP mode. That further reduces the occurrence of the AppHangB1 problem. Also the same has been done to Word and Excel and well as the MDB file. Using Windows-7 64-bit, 4 gigs memory, dual Intel processor, Ms Access 2003 SP3 32-bit - with an large application seems to hang on large queries giving an AppHangB1 error. Page file to 15000 since it is Windows-7 Pro. dbMaxLocksPerFile set to (2^20) or 1048576. Follows is what is seen by the user when the problem occurs: When that happens I tell the customer to just click, allow to continue. ====================================================== Description: A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows. Problem signature: Problem Event Name: AppHangB1 Application Name: MSACCESS.EXE Application Version: 11.0.8166.0 Application Timestamp: 46437912 Hang Signature: 8308 Hang Type: 0 OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48 Locale ID: 1033 Additional Hang Signature 1: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 2: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 3: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Additional Hang Signature 4: 8308 Additional Hang Signature 5: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 6: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 7: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Read our privacy statement online: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=104288&clcid=0x0409 If the online privacy statement is not available, please read our privacy statement offline: C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt ====================================================== From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 08:24:21 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:24:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AppHangB1 Error for MsAccess 2003 on Windows-7 64 bit In-Reply-To: <000001cca25e$21a32fb0$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <000001cca25e$21a32fb0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <003501cca2d9$1ae21990$50a64cb0$@net> Does it occur in Office 2007 or 2010 ? If not, it's time to upgrade. I think the analogy is : You've got an antiquated transmission installed and running in a brand new Ferrari. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 14 10:12:17 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 08:12:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Message-ID: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> Dear Lists: I am considering upgrading a commercial product from Access 2003 to Access 2010 (loathe as I am to develop in 2010 - I guess it's time). Although most of the target market has Office with Access, so I can distribute an mde, some do not so I have always had a run-time version available as an option. I have used the Wise/Sagekey combo for this purpose for may years. (IIRC, the market for Sagekey was motivated in no measure by the poor implementation of run-time deployments in A2000 and A2003.) I have seen references to a run-time deployment in A2010 being much improved. If I can avoid purchasing the Sagekey 2010 script and using Wise I would prefer that - it would make life much simpler. So I am looking for experiences/comments/feedback/benefits/drawbacks, etc., on the effectiveness of the A2010 run-time deployment. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 10:52:54 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:52:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> Message-ID: <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> Sorry, I cannot answer this directly. But one huge issue is: has the run-time version kept-up with all of the fixes to the full version ? Hopefully, MSFT engineers just have 2 separate solutions that share the same code base....and all they have to do is recompile to sync the runtime with the full. I'm not sure of that however. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 14 10:58:37 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 08:58:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> Message-ID: <9DB2A1BF4C9C446DAE7F9F96539AEA68@HAL9007> Mark - same mde with or without Access. I just deliver the run time with all the required dlls and those who have Access get just the mde. The Sagekey script takes care of installing and registering the dlls. (Both have demo and empty back ends, icon, etc.) Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 8:53 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Sorry, I cannot answer this directly. But one huge issue is: has the run-time version kept-up with all of the fixes to the full version ? Hopefully, MSFT engineers just have 2 separate solutions that share the same code base....and all they have to do is recompile to sync the runtime with the full. I'm not sure of that however. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 14 11:20:44 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:20:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> Message-ID: <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> What I have read is that the runtime is the full version with registry entries which lobotomize it. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 11:52 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Sorry, I cannot answer this directly. > But one huge issue is: has the run-time version kept-up with all of the > fixes to the full version ? > > Hopefully, MSFT engineers just have 2 separate solutions that share the same > code base....and all they have to do is recompile to sync the runtime with > the full. I'm not sure of that however. > > > From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Nov 14 11:35:52 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:35:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> Message-ID: <00cb01cca2f3$db540110$91fc0330$@cox.net> Rocky, I think the runtime installer is more robust and would work if you never had to deal with other versions of Office being on the client machine and the various security issues with Windows Vista and 7. What Sagekey brings to the game is having a system that can accommodate whatever the customer has and play nicely with it. The new Sagekey scripts work with MSI and don't require Wise as I understand. We are still using the Access 2000 runtime and scripts. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 8:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Off Topic'; List Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Dear Lists: I am considering upgrading a commercial product from Access 2003 to Access 2010 (loathe as I am to develop in 2010 - I guess it's time). Although most of the target market has Office with Access, so I can distribute an mde, some do not so I have always had a run-time version available as an option. I have used the Wise/Sagekey combo for this purpose for may years. (IIRC, the market for Sagekey was motivated in no measure by the poor implementation of run-time deployments in A2000 and A2003.) I have seen references to a run-time deployment in A2010 being much improved. If I can avoid purchasing the Sagekey 2010 script and using Wise I would prefer that - it would make life much simpler. So I am looking for experiences/comments/feedback/benefits/drawbacks, etc., on the effectiveness of the A2010 run-time deployment. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 12:05:19 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:05:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3D426E72FDC04C50A4CFF0DD867DD9AA@XPS> Always been that way all the way back to day 1. When you use the runtime version, your using the same MSACCESS.EXE and everything else. In fact you can take the full version and start it with the /runtime switch to get a runtime environment. Prior to Windows 95, it wasn't done via registry, but it was still the same .EXE Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 12:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) What I have read is that the runtime is the full version with registry entries which lobotomize it. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 11:52 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Sorry, I cannot answer this directly. > But one huge issue is: has the run-time version kept-up with all of the > fixes to the full version ? > > Hopefully, MSFT engineers just have 2 separate solutions that share the same > code base....and all they have to do is recompile to sync the runtime with > the full. I'm not sure of that however. > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 12:06:49 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:06:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> Message-ID: I would still figure on using the Wise/Sagekey distribution. Keeps things nice and neat. A2010 still goes through the setup and configuration deal if any other version of Access is opened before it. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 11:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Off Topic'; List Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Dear Lists: I am considering upgrading a commercial product from Access 2003 to Access 2010 (loathe as I am to develop in 2010 - I guess it's time). Although most of the target market has Office with Access, so I can distribute an mde, some do not so I have always had a run-time version available as an option. I have used the Wise/Sagekey combo for this purpose for may years. (IIRC, the market for Sagekey was motivated in no measure by the poor implementation of run-time deployments in A2000 and A2003.) I have seen references to a run-time deployment in A2010 being much improved. If I can avoid purchasing the Sagekey 2010 script and using Wise I would prefer that - it would make life much simpler. So I am looking for experiences/comments/feedback/benefits/drawbacks, etc., on the effectiveness of the A2010 run-time deployment. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 14 13:46:05 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:46:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Reports vs SQL Server Reporting Services References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> Message-ID: Over the past two years, I have used Access 2007 to create a variety of reports. The data for these reports comes from a variety of data sources (Access, Excel, flat files, SQL Server, Pervasive Database, Firebird Database, etc). I REALLY like the report writer that is built into Access 2007. Recently the topic of SQL Server Reporting Services has come up. Even though I can access data from SQL Server (outside provider), I currently do not have access to SQL Server Reporting Services. I am curious if anyone here on the AccessD forum has worked with this facility. How does SS Reporting Services stack up against Access 2007 Reports? Is it possible to pull data from various sources into SS Reporting Services, like we can do with Access? Thanks, Brad From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 13:54:58 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:54:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <3D426E72FDC04C50A4CFF0DD867DD9AA@XPS> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> <3D426E72FDC04C50A4CFF0DD867DD9AA@XPS> Message-ID: <002a01cca307$4a6c6ca0$df4545e0$@net> Yes Jim, I understand that....but what if you download the Access 2010 runtime ? Does it always have the version identified with the latest updated full release ? Previously this may not have been a big deal, but with all of the quirks and foibles of 2010, it can be an issue.... i.e. you test with the full version, then deploy to users with the runtime version....and then things stop working. > In fact you can take the full version and start it with the /runtime > switch > to get a runtime environment. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 14 14:51:41 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:51:41 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?ore_expensive?= In-Reply-To: References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: Thank you, Arthur, I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... -- Shamil 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard disks > and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard disk with a > mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the flash-memory sticks: a pair > of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting the new version of Solaris on one > of them. > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point of > running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have with my > setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu VM and also > the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but each instance > opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this approach leads to > less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to > consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > A. > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > > > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 14 20:20:25 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 02:20:25 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Well, Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Thank you, Arthur, I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... -- Shamil 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting > the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point > of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have > with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu > VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but > each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this > approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in > two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > A. > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then > > > running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run > > > various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 14 21:10:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:10:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> Darryl, I want to discuss this. My client just brought up an 8 core AMD server with 16 gigs of ram, just in time to hear about MS deciding that $8K / core is a fair license price. I don't think that $64K for a CPU license is at all fair. Since we were just getting ready to move Access to SQL Server (but haven't yet) I am proposing that we take a hard right to MySQL / MariaDb. I wish I could have persuaded the to take an about face to Linux from an old Windows 2003 license. This is a small company, 50 employees and MS is getting massively expensive for a company this size or smaller. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 9:20 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller: >> My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. >> On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the >> workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard >> disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard >> disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the >> flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting >> the new version of Solaris on one of them. >> >> I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point >> of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have >> with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu >> VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but >> each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this >> approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in >> two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. >> >> A. >> >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: >> >>> Hi Arthur -- >>> >>>> At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then >>>> running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run >>>> various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. >>>> Everything works just ducky. >>>> ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. >>> >>> May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 21:22:19 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:22:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000f01cca345$c8dc1840$5a9448c0$@net> John - I really hear this stuff and wonder if MSFT isn't brain-dead sometimes ;) I doubt seriously that the licensing for a <50 person corp is NOT negotiable. MSFT is just testing the waters with that kind of licensing fee IMHO. > I want to discuss this. My client just brought up an 8 core AMD server > with 16 gigs of ram, just in > time to hear about MS deciding that $8K / core is a fair license price. > I don't think that $64K > for a CPU license is at all fair. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 14 21:47:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:47:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000f01cca345$c8dc1840$5a9448c0$@net> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <000f01cca345$c8dc1840$5a9448c0$@net> Message-ID: <4EC1E0C1.8080908@colbyconsulting.com> > I doubt seriously that the licensing for a<50 person corp is NOT negotiable. MSFT is just testing the waters with that kind of licensing fee IMHO. I would guess so. The problem is that once you dive in to the water you are in for the long haul. Free? Not?? I can run MySQL on Windows 2008 and have a full on server with most of the bells and whistles. the cost is in coming up to speed in a new environment, but once done then it is very low cost. Or I can run MSSQL. They were already balking (unable to afford really) the $8K or so for the SQL Server Standard Edition. But we are about to move a full system, ~200 tables to something. Moving that big a database is going to be time consuming and expensive just in migration costs and testing. Do I move it to SQL Server 2008 Express? That doesn't seem a good bet. Do I move to SQl Server 2008 Standard and get locked in only to have MS really whack them around in the 2011 license costs? Or do I make the break and just go MySQL (or something else)? I am recommending that we just make a clean break right now. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 10:22 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > John - I really hear this stuff and wonder if MSFT isn't brain-dead sometimes > ;) > I doubt seriously that the licensing for a<50 person corp is NOT negotiable. > MSFT is just testing the waters with that kind of licensing fee IMHO. > >> I want to discuss this. My client just brought up an 8 core AMD server >> with 16 gigs of ram, just in >> time to hear about MS deciding that $8K / core is a fair license price. >> I don't think that $64K >> for a CPU license is at all fair. > > From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 14 22:12:16 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:12:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> John: All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case that you ever became completely stuck. It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. ;-) To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have found they had little trouble adjusting. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 7:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive Darryl, I want to discuss this. My client just brought up an 8 core AMD server with 16 gigs of ram, just in time to hear about MS deciding that $8K / core is a fair license price. I don't think that $64K for a CPU license is at all fair. Since we were just getting ready to move Access to SQL Server (but haven't yet) I am proposing that we take a hard right to MySQL / MariaDb. I wish I could have persuaded the to take an about face to Linux from an old Windows 2003 license. This is a small company, 50 employees and MS is getting massively expensive for a company this size or smaller. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 9:20 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller: >> My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. >> On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the >> workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard >> disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard >> disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the >> flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting >> the new version of Solaris on one of them. >> >> I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point >> of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have >> with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu >> VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but >> each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this >> approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in >> two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. >> >> A. >> >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: >> >>> Hi Arthur -- >>> >>>> At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then >>>> running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run >>>> various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. >>>> Everything works just ducky. >>>> ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. >>> >>> May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 14 22:49:12 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:49:12 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC1E0C1.8080908@colbyconsulting.com> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <000f01cca345$c8dc1840$5a9448c0$@net> <4EC1E0C1.8080908@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <6558FCA06665411F8D9EF674900DFC81@creativesystemdesigns.com> I second that thought. The only reason I was holding on to MS was because of their MS Access product, which at the time of its creation had a more than adequate DB, an excellent user interface and had a great reporting engine. It appears now that the product is become more crippled, as MS is no longer willing or able to provide sufficient resources to keep their product stable or able to handle the current data requirements. That is really too bad as MS Access is being allowed to die. MS has had two things going for it. One, a great application platform and two, a great Office application to run on that platform. Microsoft is now being hit from two directions. One, Linux has always been a very stable server product but now the same can be said for their desktops, add to that low cost Open Office products. When we come to database support for Linux this is where you hit the mother lode. There are numerous DBs of every size and complexity and many of them are very mature and have excellent interfaces and companion development applications. Two, Web based applications. That market is just starting but it will not be long before every application you can find on a desktop will be able to be found in a web-based alternative. MS unfortunately, dropped the ball on this. At one point, they held almost 90 percent of the browser market but due to neglect, like in Access, they have lost that market too. (IE use is now below 50 percent and it is dropping at half a percent a month.) I hope this is not depressing anyone but I see the market opening up with so many great opportunities but Microsoft products will just become one of a few supported product lines and not the only one. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 7:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive > I doubt seriously that the licensing for a<50 person corp is NOT negotiable. MSFT is just testing the waters with that kind of licensing fee IMHO. I would guess so. The problem is that once you dive in to the water you are in for the long haul. Free? Not?? I can run MySQL on Windows 2008 and have a full on server with most of the bells and whistles. the cost is in coming up to speed in a new environment, but once done then it is very low cost. Or I can run MSSQL. They were already balking (unable to afford really) the $8K or so for the SQL Server Standard Edition. But we are about to move a full system, ~200 tables to something. Moving that big a database is going to be time consuming and expensive just in migration costs and testing. Do I move it to SQL Server 2008 Express? That doesn't seem a good bet. Do I move to SQl Server 2008 Standard and get locked in only to have MS really whack them around in the 2011 license costs? Or do I make the break and just go MySQL (or something else)? I am recommending that we just make a clean break right now. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 15 01:28:52 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:28:52 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim, John at all, That's is an interesting discussion. But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... .Now take C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > John: > > All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > that you ever became completely stuck. > > It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > ;-) > > To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > > They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > found they had little trouble adjusting. > > Jim > > ) From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 15 01:40:39 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:40:39 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?ore_expensive?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting > > the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point > > of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have > > with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu > > VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but > > each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this > > approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in > > two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > A. > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then > > > > running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run > > > > various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 15 02:50:00 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:50:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> Shamil, Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. - Hans On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Jim, John at all, > > That's is an interesting discussion. > But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > > MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > > I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > > .Now take > > C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > > - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > > And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >> John: >> >> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >> that you ever became completely stuck. >> >> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >> ;-) >> >> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >> >> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >> found they had little trouble adjusting. >> >> Jim >> >> ) > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 15 03:05:22 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 01:05:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: Glad to hear this, Arthur. Your sentiments are just the same as what caused me to jump ship many years ago. What has your experience been so far? From a business point of view, I can see why Microsoft is doing this. They will get immediate returns, as many corporations are dependant on their products and there will be much friction to change, but it is also very short sighted and will only appease shareholders in the short run. When all is said and done, I find that MySQL is a very simple database and quick to get used to. It may lack a lot of bells and whistles that some of the more enterprise databases have, but I don't personally think many (or most) projects really require this. However, I do feel like I should plug PostgreSQL very quickly. It is a _very_ advanced database (dare I say, the only true open source enterprise database). It doesn't get as much attention, due to the fact that it is a much more comprehensive and advanced package, but it can certainly compete toe-to-toe with the heavy weights (and that's probably why it doesn't get nearly as much attention as MySQL does). But, if any of you need any help or advice on using or administrating MySQL (on a Linux platform, I'm afraid), I will be more than happy to help out. Perhaps we should add a new mailing list group just for this? - Hans On 2011-11-12, at 8:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. > See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the > last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a complete > waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, and > I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu > and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs > inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so > the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be dealt > with in a VM. > > So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. You > don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a > semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated > December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net > connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of > December. Wow. Party hearty. > > Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist government, > I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of Lucky > MoFus. > > Arthur > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with Oracle... >> This is so "Balmer-like". >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>> expensive >>> >>> http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012- >>> licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ >>> >>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>> >>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>> clients and massive >>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>> >>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > Cell: 647.710.1314 > > Thirty spokes converge on a hub > but it's the emptiness > that makes a wheel work > -- from the Daodejing > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Nov 15 06:48:47 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 07:48:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <002a01cca307$4a6c6ca0$df4545e0$@net> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> <3D426E72FDC04C50A4CFF0DD867DD9AA@XPS> <002a01cca307$4a6c6ca0$df4545e0$@net> Message-ID: <74A57FE34FF74A79B661F6F45232D5BF@XPS> Ah, I see your point now. I always think of the runtime as something I distribute along with the package wizard. Not something a end-user would download directly on their own and execute. In fact I always thought it used your copy of Access as a base and didn't include Access per say on it's own. The "runtime" was just the package and deployment tools. In looking at the distributions, it looks like it may include a copy of Access (it's 202MB and I doubt the deployment tools alone would be that much), but it doesn't look like it's kept up to date as there is an SP1 for the runtime. Given that, the assumption would be that it's a RTM (Released to Mfg) version and then once installed, it relies on Windows Update to bring it up to snuff. But it could be the SP1 is simply for the deployment tools. I'll try and dig into a little more if I can find some time. I consider myself fortunate that I have done no development with 2010 and very little with 2007, so I haven't had to deal with the issues. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 02:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Yes Jim, I understand that....but what if you download the Access 2010 runtime ? Does it always have the version identified with the latest updated full release ? Previously this may not have been a big deal, but with all of the quirks and foibles of 2010, it can be an issue.... i.e. you test with the full version, then deploy to users with the runtime version....and then things stop working. > In fact you can take the full version and start it with the /runtime > switch > to get a runtime environment. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Nov 15 10:11:10 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:11:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: I started using MySQL several years back, and have since then co-authored several editions of our book on MySQL (Get It Done with MySQL, co-author being Peter Brawley, who frequents our sister site DBA-Hardware and Software Issues). When Oracle bought MySQL I got a little scared, but so far my fears are unjustified. That said, I feel a debt of gratitude to Monty and for that reason have also installed MariaDb, which is a fork off MySQL. Incidentally, for those inclined to trivia, Monty names his products after his daughters. The hardest thing for newcomers to MySQL and MariaDb is the wealth of configuration options. With MS-SQL you can pretty much load and go; and you can with MySQL and MariaDb too, but when performance is the crucial measure, then you have to open the hood and tweak the fuel-injection system, as it were. For anyone thinking of taking the plunge, you can visit www.artfulsoftware.com, which hosts our book and provides several chapters for free download, plus all the source code. In addition to discussing MySQL, we also address communicating with it from PHP, Access, .NET and other languages. Arthur On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:05 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com> wrote: > > Glad to hear this, Arthur. Your sentiments are just the same as what > caused me to jump ship many years ago. What has your experience been so far? > > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 15 10:58:17 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 08:58:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: Arthur, I had a look at a few sample chapters of your book. Looks quite comprehensive. I have to admit, I've been using MySQL this whole time and never really knew its whole history until now. I also like how you have a section on solutions to common queries. Great stuff. I will definitely recommend it to anyone looking for a good resource on MySQL. - Hans On 2011-11-15, at 8:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I started using MySQL several years back, and have since then co-authored > several editions of our book on MySQL (Get It Done with MySQL, co-author > being Peter Brawley, who frequents our sister site DBA-Hardware and > Software Issues). When Oracle bought MySQL I got a little scared, but so > far my fears are unjustified. That said, I feel a debt of gratitude to > Monty and for that reason have also installed MariaDb, which is a fork off > MySQL. Incidentally, for those inclined to trivia, Monty names his products > after his daughters. > > The hardest thing for newcomers to MySQL and MariaDb is the wealth of > configuration options. With MS-SQL you can pretty much load and go; and you > can with MySQL and MariaDb too, but when performance is the crucial > measure, then you have to open the hood and tweak the fuel-injection > system, as it were. > > > For anyone thinking of taking the plunge, you can visit > www.artfulsoftware.com, which hosts our book and provides several chapters > for free download, plus all the source code. In addition to discussing > MySQL, we also address communicating with it from PHP, Access, .NET and > other languages. > > > Arthur > > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:05 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen < > hans.andersen at phulse.com> wrote: > >> >> Glad to hear this, Arthur. Your sentiments are just the same as what >> caused me to jump ship many years ago. What has your experience been so far? >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 15 11:58:02 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:58:02 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> References: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> Message-ID: Hans -- Than you for your remark. Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > > Shamil, > > Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > > - Hans > > On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Jim, John at all, > > > > That's is an interesting discussion. > > But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > > > > MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > > > > I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > > > > .Now take > > > > C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > > > > - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > > > > And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > >> John: > >> > >> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >> that you ever became completely stuck. > >> > >> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >> ;-) > >> > >> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >> > >> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >> > >> Jim > >> > >> ) > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Nov 15 12:29:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:29:58 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Shamil: Gone are the days when everything was minis and mainframes and FORTRAN was king. FORTRAN was the first major language I learned but I have not used it too much lately. Microsoft has held the PC market for at least 10 years of the last 20 but I think we are in a period of transition and the market is spreading out again. If the patent wars do not seriously slow progress, we are on the verge of some very exciting times...similar to the 80s and early 90s. Open source and open standards is where I believe the market is going. You and I may be more familiar with Microsoft's stable of products but developing a decent product in any environment is not easy but it is now no more difficult, than under Linux, it is just different and it all takes considerable time to learn, regardless of the way you go. In the end, I believe, you can be equally as productive. Windows is the only major OS out there that does not have a Linux/Unix core. Linux is the environment of innovation. Virtually, every new product and concept in the computing world has first been created on Linux. Companies like Microsoft, Apple, Oracle, Google etc have been robbing the Linux garden for years and then have been running out and trying to patent it before someone else does or the product developers stamp a GNU and MIT license on it. Unlike Arthur, I will still be using some Microsoft products, as the customers demand it. OTOH, the market is moving away from Desktop type application and more towards Browser type environments...PCs, Smart phones, tablets and so on. In the future, proprietary PC applications are not going to be as important and that will leave Microsoft out of the loop, unless they make major changes in their corporate philosophy. This means, regardless of the effort required, the New Age IT professional is going to have to move more into the Linux world. That, as far as I can see, is a fact, that we all have to come to terms with. Therefore, whether we retire from the computer industry, develop products in a niche market or embrace the new order it does not matter. I believe it is a wonderful time to be in the computer world with so many options...and yes, that does not necessarily mean Microsoft. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 11:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive Jim, John at all, That's is an interesting discussion. But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... .Now take C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... Thank you. -- Shamil From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Nov 15 13:33:40 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:33:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60C0@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I have the following data in a table. I have been able to make reports based on each of the eng area's in the table. I now need to make a report with a total well count for each category (well status) in the table. I have not yet figured how to get a sum for each category in a report or do I need to do a query and base the report on that? Thanks tbl Monthly Well Count with EA Well Status Well_Count Eng Area Active Injector CO2 1 1 Active Injector CO2 3 2 Active Injector CO2 0 3 Active Injector WAG 100 1 Active Injector WAG 122 2 Active Injector WAG 58 3 Active Injector Water 33 1 Active Injector Water 93 2 Active Injector Water 85 3 Inactive Injector 36 1 Inactive Injector 25 2 Inactive Injector 31 3 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 15 13:42:41 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:42:41 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: HI Jim -- > we are on the verge of some very exciting times...similar to the 80s and early 90s. Yes. I'd even say they promise to be even more exciting... Yes, I know that "gone are the days when everything was minis..." - I have just mentioned them to note how huge is the software development productivity growth using nowadays development tools comparing to "good old days..." Still "mythical man-month phenomena" is very actual these days and even becoming more and more actual IMO - and that is Microsoft who is leading/is one of the leaders of the world mass and corporate market of software development productivity tools and programming languages *innovation* nowadays IMO... As for Microsoft business model - everybody knows they often were "missing mainstream uprising technologies" but there were no *any*(?) case in their corporate history they weren't able to "catch the leaving train" and to become a bandwagon - do you believe they will miss it this time?... Let's keep "adults talk" here? :) - I'm asking just one concrete question: - please give me real figures for real life project(s) when Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) of using MS development tools and applications platforms e.g. C#/.NET 4.0 + MS SQL is higher than TCO of using mySQL + ...(?).... provided development teams using that tools on both sides have comparable experience in developing business applications... > I believe it is a wonderful time to be in the computer > world with so many options...and yes, that does not > necessarily mean Microsoft. Yes, but I'm not questioning that. OK? Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. And no, I'm not working for Microsoft :) And I'm not MVP. 15 ?????? 2011, 22:31 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Hi Shamil: > > Gone are the days when everything was minis and mainframes and FORTRAN was > king. FORTRAN was the first major language I learned but I have not used it > too much lately. > > Microsoft has held the PC market for at least 10 years of the last 20 but I > think we are in a period of transition and the market is spreading out > again. If the patent wars do not seriously slow progress, we are on the > verge of some very exciting times...similar to the 80s and early 90s. > > Open source and open standards is where I believe the market is going. You > and I may be more familiar with Microsoft's stable of products but > developing a decent product in any environment is not easy but it is now no > more difficult, than under Linux, it is just different and it all takes > considerable time to learn, regardless of the way you go. In the end, I > believe, you can be equally as productive. > > Windows is the only major OS out there that does not have a Linux/Unix core. > > Linux is the environment of innovation. Virtually, every new product and > concept in the computing world has first been created on Linux. Companies > like Microsoft, Apple, Oracle, Google etc have been robbing the Linux garden > for years and then have been running out and trying to patent it before > someone else does or the product developers stamp a GNU and MIT license on > it. > > Unlike Arthur, I will still be using some Microsoft products, as the > customers demand it. OTOH, the market is moving away from Desktop type > application and more towards Browser type environments...PCs, Smart phones, > tablets and so on. In the future, proprietary PC applications are not going > to be as important and that will leave Microsoft out of the loop, unless > they make major changes in their corporate philosophy. > > This means, regardless of the effort required, the New Age IT professional > is going to have to move more into the Linux world. That, as far as I can > see, is a fact, that we all have to come to terms with. Therefore, whether > we retire from the computer industry, develop products in a niche market or > embrace the new order it does not matter. > > I believe it is a wonderful time to be in the computer world with so many > options...and yes, that does not necessarily mean Microsoft. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 11:29 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > moreexpensive > > Jim, John at all, > > That's is an interesting discussion. > But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > > MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > > I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have > worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, > command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and > PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or > network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data > definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how > much time all that development takes... > > .Now take > > C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > > - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux > development and support costs? > > And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards > HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and > support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom > business applications... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Tue Nov 15 13:50:18 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:50:18 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60C0@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60C0@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <005801cca3cf$cd6cf750$6846e5f0$@comcast.net> Hi Chester, If, on this report, you only want to display the count of wells, the I would probably write a query to use as the recordsouce of the report. Like this: SELECT tblWells.EngArea, Sum(tblWells.WellCount) AS [Well Count] FROM tblWells GROUP BY tblWells.EngArea; If you also need to display individual data on the report, then use the grouping and sum features of the report. Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report I have the following data in a table. I have been able to make reports based on each of the eng area's in the table. I now need to make a report with a total well count for each category (well status) in the table. I have not yet figured how to get a sum for each category in a report or do I need to do a query and base the report on that? Thanks tbl Monthly Well Count with EA Well Status Well_Count Eng Area Active Injector CO2 1 1 Active Injector CO2 3 2 Active Injector CO2 0 3 Active Injector WAG 100 1 Active Injector WAG 122 2 Active Injector WAG 58 3 Active Injector Water 33 1 Active Injector Water 93 2 Active Injector Water 85 3 Inactive Injector 36 1 Inactive Injector 25 2 Inactive Injector 31 3 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Nov 15 14:37:19 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:37:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report In-Reply-To: <005801cca3cf$cd6cf750$6846e5f0$@comcast.net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60C0@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <005801cca3cf$cd6cf750$6846e5f0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60E5@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Of course right after my posting it occurred to me how to do this in the report. Use this as the control source modifying as necessary for various text boxes. =DSum("[Well_Count]","tbl Monthly Well Count with EA","[Well Status] ='Active Injector CO2' ") -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Summerize data for report Hi Chester, If, on this report, you only want to display the count of wells, the I would probably write a query to use as the recordsouce of the report. Like this: SELECT tblWells.EngArea, Sum(tblWells.WellCount) AS [Well Count] FROM tblWells GROUP BY tblWells.EngArea; If you also need to display individual data on the report, then use the grouping and sum features of the report. Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report I have the following data in a table. I have been able to make reports based on each of the eng area's in the table. I now need to make a report with a total well count for each category (well status) in the table. I have not yet figured how to get a sum for each category in a report or do I need to do a query and base the report on that? Thanks tbl Monthly Well Count with EA Well Status Well_Count Eng Area Active Injector CO2 1 1 Active Injector CO2 3 2 Active Injector CO2 0 3 Active Injector WAG 100 1 Active Injector WAG 122 2 Active Injector WAG 58 3 Active Injector Water 33 1 Active Injector Water 93 2 Active Injector Water 85 3 Inactive Injector 36 1 Inactive Injector 25 2 Inactive Injector 31 3 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Nov 15 15:37:17 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:37:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> As I had indicated before, I think support is EVERYTHING. Example: After 2 successful years of running Firefox as my primary browser, I must now uninstall it. Why ?: Since the 7.01 release and now with the latest and greatest 8.0 release, It is no longer compatible with Adobe Distiller 9.0 I am now unable to print to PDF from a webpage. I LOVE TO DO THIS !!! And I love Acrobat - Professional. On the Mozilla tech forums, the responses I got to the problem went from the RIDICULOUS (Use Foxit) to the SUBLIME (get a MAC ). Neither were solutions even worthy of closer consideration. There you have it: hit the proverbial "wall" with open source and you're dead-in-the-water. I'm back with IE 8. Works great with Distiller. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 15 16:16:02 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:16:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> References: , , <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> Message-ID: <4EC2E4A2.7175.23835183@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I have no problems with printing to the open source PDFCreator with the latest FF. -- Stuart On 15 Nov 2011 at 16:37, Mark Simms wrote: > As I had indicated before, I think support is EVERYTHING. > Example: After 2 successful years of running Firefox as my primary browser, > I must now uninstall it. Why ?: > Since the 7.01 release and now with the latest and greatest 8.0 release, > It is no longer compatible with Adobe Distiller 9.0 > I am now unable to print to PDF from a webpage. I LOVE TO DO THIS !!! And I > love Acrobat - Professional. > > On the Mozilla tech forums, the responses I got to the problem went from the > RIDICULOUS (Use Foxit) to the SUBLIME (get a MAC ). Neither were solutions > even worthy of closer consideration. > > There you have it: hit the proverbial "wall" with open source and you're > dead-in-the-water. > I'm back with IE 8. Works great with Distiller. > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 15 16:38:00 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:38:00 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hi Shamil, Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. Now. MySQL - The Process so far: Looked at the manual: << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> Download the Free community edition: Easy << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> Install: Fairly easy Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> Or << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. Check data types << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Darryl -- I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > A. > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 15 16:50:47 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:50:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> Message-ID: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> Hi Shamil, I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). - Hans On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hans -- > > Than you for your remark. > > Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > > .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > > I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > > My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> >> Shamil, >> >> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >> >> - Hans >> >> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >>> Jim, John at all, >>> >>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>> >>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>> >>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>> >>> .Now take >>> >>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>> >>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>> >>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >>>> John: >>>> >>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>> >>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>> ;-) >>>> >>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>> >>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> ) >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 15 16:59:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:59:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: , , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4EC2EEBE.26497.23AACF6A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I just install MySQL by installing WAMPServer ( basically single click). Then I point my browser at http://localhost/phpMyAdmin for a GUI. -- Stuart On 15 Nov 2011 at 22:38, Darryl Collins wrote: > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL > Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad > and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get > started. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> > > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this > Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 15 2011, 06:22 Darryl Collins : > > Well, > > > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > > > Cheers > > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > > more expensive > > > > Thank you, Arthur, > > > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 13 2011, 22:21 Arthur Fuller : > > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > > > A. > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 15 16:59:30 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:59:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EC2EED2.1090709@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, In fact I believe that seat licensing is very reasonable with Microsoft. AFAICT the per seat is about $200 for Windows AND SQL Server, and that is a onc time cost, or probably a once every 4 or 5 years if they force you to get new CALs on some new revision of the software. in my opinion, that is just a reasonable cost for licensing a SQl Server. It does have to be budgeted for however. For example for this new server they need around 40 CALs which is $8K plus some fixed "server license" fees. That is a lump sum check that has to be written. If they just put that in the bank over 4 or 5 years they would be fine. I am not convinced that TCO as you describe it is huge on Linux / MySQL. I have a linux server that sits in the corner and runs. My TCO for that was $120 plus an old server system. If Access can talk through ODBC to MySQL then a conversion to MySQL would be reasonably priced. Yes there is a learning curve but still there are no or low recurring fees. Can .Net on client machines run against MySQL? I would bet so. Can I run VMs on Linux for things that have to run on Windows? What has to run on Windows? It isn't dead simple but you do get off the endless licensing treadmill with Microsoft. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/15/2011 12:58 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hans -- > > Than you for your remark. > > Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > > .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > > I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > > My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 15 17:13:30 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:13:30 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> References: <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D996D@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> And IE8 and certainly IE9 are rather nice to use as well. MS have finally decided to get a bit more serious about the browser it seems. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 8:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive As I had indicated before, I think support is EVERYTHING. Example: After 2 successful years of running Firefox as my primary browser, I must now uninstall it. Why ?: Since the 7.01 release and now with the latest and greatest 8.0 release, It is no longer compatible with Adobe Distiller 9.0 I am now unable to print to PDF from a webpage. I LOVE TO DO THIS !!! And I love Acrobat - Professional. On the Mozilla tech forums, the responses I got to the problem went from the RIDICULOUS (Use Foxit) to the SUBLIME (get a MAC ). Neither were solutions even worthy of closer consideration. There you have it: hit the proverbial "wall" with open source and you're dead-in-the-water. I'm back with IE 8. Works great with Distiller. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 15 17:29:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 18:29:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4EC2F5C2.4060100@colbyconsulting.com> >Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. But to my knowledge the size limit is for a database. So put the table itself in one database and the work stuff in another database. SQL Server (even express) can handle more than a single database and can easily use tables in one database as part of a query in another database. I am not discounting the limitations, just discussing that there is a SQL Server solution in this particular example. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/15/2011 5:38 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > Hi Shamil, > > Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. > > However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. > > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. > > Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> > > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this > Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins: >> Well, >> >> Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. >> >> Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. >> >> See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >> Salakhetdinov Shamil >> Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY >> more expensive >> >> Thank you, Arthur, >> >> I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. >> I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... >> >> -- Shamil >> >> 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller: >>> My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. >>> On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the >>> workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard >>> disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard >>> disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the >>> flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering >>> mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. >>> >>> I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the >>> point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem >>> that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. >>> Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome >>> as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the >>> particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and >>> since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. >>> >>> A. >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: >>> >>>> Hi Arthur -- >>>> >>>>> At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and >>>>> then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I >>>>> run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. >>>>> Everything works just ducky. >>>>> ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. >>>> >>>> May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 15 17:35:16 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:35:16 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EC2F5C2.4060100@colbyconsulting.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC2F5C2.4060100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D99D4@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yep, that is pretty much what I ended up doing - indeed I ended up using several databases. I haven't given up on SQL Server Express, I just want to try something else and see if it behaves any better or suit my needs better. So far it has been promising. I am fairly lucky here in that the SQL server instance is just for me. I don't have to spend any time on security, user interfaces etc. I just need it to mash data as effectively as possible. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 10:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive >Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. But to my knowledge the size limit is for a database. So put the table itself in one database and the work stuff in another database. SQL Server (even express) can handle more than a single database and can easily use tables in one database as part of a query in another database. I am not discounting the limitations, just discussing that there is a SQL Server solution in this particular example. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/15/2011 5:38 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > Hi Shamil, > > Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. > > However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. > > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. > > Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy << > http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << > http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Defau > lt.aspx>> > > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << > http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more > 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins: >> Well, >> >> Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. >> >> Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. >> >> See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >> Salakhetdinov Shamil >> Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY >> more expensive >> >> Thank you, Arthur, >> >> I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. >> I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... >> >> -- Shamil >> >> 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller: >>> My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. >>> On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the >>> workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard >>> disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard >>> disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the >>> flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering >>> mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. >>> >>> I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the >>> point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem >>> that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. >>> Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome >>> as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the >>> particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and >>> since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. >>> >>> A. >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: >>> >>>> Hi Arthur -- >>>> >>>>> At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then >>>>> running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run >>>>> various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. >>>>> Everything works just ducky. >>>>> ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. >>>> >>>> May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Tue Nov 15 20:19:17 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 20:19:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <007b01cca406$248c5f40$6da51dc0$@comcast.net> Darryl - I don't remember you mentioning which version of SQL Express you're using. SQL Express 2008 R2 has a 10 Gb limit. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 4:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Shamil, Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. Now. MySQL - The Process so far: Looked at the manual: << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> Download the Free community edition: Easy << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> Install: Fairly easy Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> Or << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. Check data types << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Darryl -- I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > A. > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 15 20:38:09 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 02:38:09 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <007b01cca406$248c5f40$6da51dc0$@comcast.net> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <007b01cca406$248c5f40$6da51dc0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DA327@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yep, That is the one I am using - 10 GB is the limit. But the 86 million rows of data are kissing the limit. 8 Access DB's pushed into a single SQL Server table. There are not that many columns of data (maybe 10 columns) in each table. Well, the one I am using to be precise is SQL Server Denali CTP3 - Express version of course. To give you an approximate idea. The 8 MS Access databases - each only contain a single table of data, no code, and a single query to ensure each table is exported the same are sized in KB (when compacted) as 1,080,608 926,160 1,343,040 998,736 1,452,932 1,300,500 1,291,344 1,287,232 ------------------ 9,680,552 Total KB ------------------ So pretty darn squeezy when pushed into a 10 GB limit :) Given that I need to add one column via the query to each table on upload you can start to see my problem. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 1:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Darryl - I don't remember you mentioning which version of SQL Express you're using. SQL Express 2008 R2 has a 10 Gb limit. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 4:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Shamil, Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. Now. MySQL - The Process so far: Looked at the manual: << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> Download the Free community edition: Easy << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> Install: Fairly easy Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> Or << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. Check data types << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Darryl -- I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > A. > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Tue Nov 15 20:49:00 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:49:00 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Reports vs SQL Server Reporting Services In-Reply-To: References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <04b001cca40a$4c834000$e589c000$@activebilling.com.au> Hey Brad. We use RepServices here at the office (SQL2005 Back ends) Generally speaking - it's a pretty good tool, though there are display issues on the browser display of final reports if you are not using IE (Something to do with frames inside frames) A real PITA Anyway back to the designer - If I tell the design tool (Vis Studio) I want a new DataSource I get 7 'types' out of the box. This includes SQL Server (Of course) and an OLE DB option , ODBC, XML and ORACLE (These are out of the box nothing else installed) We only ever connect our reports sitting over SQL but I'm sure you could do more with it, from that point of view, than we are - Also the learning curve is bugger all if you already know VB and VBA syntax. Good Luck Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Reports vs SQL Server Reporting Services Over the past two years, I have used Access 2007 to create a variety of reports. The data for these reports comes from a variety of data sources (Access, Excel, flat files, SQL Server, Pervasive Database, Firebird Database, etc). I REALLY like the report writer that is built into Access 2007. Recently the topic of SQL Server Reporting Services has come up. Even though I can access data from SQL Server (outside provider), I currently do not have access to SQL Server Reporting Services. I am curious if anyone here on the AccessD forum has worked with this facility. How does SS Reporting Services stack up against Access 2007 Reports? Is it possible to pull data from various sources into SS Reporting Services, like we can do with Access? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Nov 16 02:34:36 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:34:36 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?ore_expensive?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. But you didn't account Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) which includes your project development and support costs, did you? I''m not asking for concrete figures but for evaluation based on your or others past experiences. Once again: TCO - C#/.NET 4.0 (VS2010) vs. mySQL + ...(?) .... Did you try to split your MS SQL Express db into several parts? Would that splitting introduce too much complexity to your business application development? How do you process your large data volumes? .... Instead of "blindly switching to mySQL" wouldn't it be better first try to evaluate long term costs? .... Darryl, I'm not trying to insult you or others with my questions here - these are more questions to myself how inexpensive is that "mySQL free cheese" in long run? Anybody tried to calculate that? Yes, I know many companies do not have that much of free money to pay to MS SQL licences up-front but with proper development plan/road-map there should be a way to make that licences affordable for them in long run - I mean if that companies have a profitable business and your development makes this business even more profitable then MS SQL should be a better choice provided your back-end isn't just a "dumb" relational db but needs rich (T)-SQL and many other features you're getting with MS SQL "out-of-the-box"... Thank you. -- Shamil 16 ?????? 2011, 02:39 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Hi Shamil, > > Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. > > However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. > > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. > > Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this > Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Well, > > > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > > > Cheers > > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > > more expensive > > > > Thank you, Arthur, > > > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > > > A. > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Nov 16 02:51:20 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:51:20 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> Message-ID: Hi Hans -- Thank you for your reply. But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... Thank you. -- Shamil 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > > Hi Shamil, > > I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. > > Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. > > That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. > > Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. > > Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. > > Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. > > There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). > > - Hans > > On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hans -- > > > > Than you for your remark. > > > > Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > > > > .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > > > > I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > > > > My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >> > >> > >> Shamil, > >> > >> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > >> > >> - Hans > >> > >> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> > >>> Jim, John at all, > >>> > >>> That's is an interesting discussion. > >>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > >>> > >>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > >>> > >>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > >>> > >>> .Now take > >>> > >>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > >>> > >>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > >>> > >>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >>> > >>> > >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > >>>> John: > >>>> > >>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >>>> that you ever became completely stuck. > >>>> > >>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >>>> ;-) > >>>> > >>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >>>> > >>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >>>> > >>>> Jim > >>>> > >>>> ) > >>> > >>> -- > >>> AccessD mailing list > >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Nov 16 03:06:15 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:06:15 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <4EC2EED2.1090709@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC2EED2.1090709@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John -- Yes, AFAIHH .NET client machines can run against mySQL. I can be wrong but aren't you just trying to use "raw modern multi-core processors power " to crunch relational db indexes and joins and for that you need to use all the processor's cores?, What if you'd try to use just one core and a lot of cheap memory for MS SQL db communication and use other cores to your custom application data processing/crunching and you'll write some custom C#/.NET coding for that - would that save your customers from paying high MS SQL per-core license costs *right now*? And when they get good profit from your working solutions then they can afford some loans from banks and afford per-core MS SQL licensing - and by that time you'll get them developed even more better and more profitable custom solutions? > It isn't dead simple but you do get off the endless licensing treadmill with Microsoft. John, but "licensing treadmill" or "custom software development and support treadmill" is what drives your, mine and other companies hi-tech businesses, isn't it? Thank you. -- Shamil 16 ?????? 2011, 03:01 ?? jwcolby : > Shamil, > > In fact I believe that seat licensing is very reasonable with Microsoft. AFAICT the per seat is > about $200 for Windows AND SQL Server, and that is a onc time cost, or probably a once every 4 or 5 > years if they force you to get new CALs on some new revision of the software. > > in my opinion, that is just a reasonable cost for licensing a SQl Server. It does have to be > budgeted for however. For example for this new server they need around 40 CALs which is $8K plus > some fixed "server license" fees. That is a lump sum check that has to be written. If they just > put that in the bank over 4 or 5 years they would be fine. > > I am not convinced that TCO as you describe it is huge on Linux / MySQL. I have a linux server that > sits in the corner and runs. My TCO for that was $120 plus an old server system. If Access can > talk through ODBC to MySQL then a conversion to MySQL would be reasonably priced. Yes there is a > learning curve but still there are no or low recurring fees. Can .Net on client machines run > against MySQL? I would bet so. Can I run VMs on Linux for things that have to run on Windows? > What has to run on Windows? > > It isn't dead simple but you do get off the endless licensing treadmill with Microsoft. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/15/2011 12:58 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hans -- > > > > Than you for your remark. > > > > Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > > > > .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > > > > I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > > > > My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Nov 16 09:11:12 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:11:12 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] IT Position in Minneapolis/St.Paul Message-ID: <002b01cca471$fa687070$ef395150$@comcast.net> I just talked with one of my customers this morning, and they are looking for a person to be an 'on call' IT person. This a 100 person manufacturing firm in Shoreview. If you're interested, please contact me directly. Thanks! Dan From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 16 11:16:13 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:16:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Shamil: The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard configuration. If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches up.) I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic configuration of both. This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user can get use to using either as they are very similar. I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic configuration of both. I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or in both and how much the initial products cost. Some other points to consider: 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent Windows products. 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. Jim From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 16 11:44:52 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:44:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> Message-ID: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Hi Shamil, > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: 1. They really need a certain feature 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > Thank you for your reply. > > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > > "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > > "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> >> Hi Shamil, >> >> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. >> >> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. >> >> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. >> >> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. >> >> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. >> >> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. >> >> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). >> >> - Hans >> >> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >>> Hans -- >>> >>> Than you for your remark. >>> >>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) >>> >>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... >>> >>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? >>> >>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >>>> >>>> >>>> Shamil, >>>> >>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >>>> >>>> - Hans >>>> >>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jim, John at all, >>>>> >>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>>>> >>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>>>> >>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>>>> >>>>> .Now take >>>>> >>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>>>> >>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>>>> >>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >>>>>> John: >>>>>> >>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>>>> ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>>>> >>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jim >>>>>> >>>>>> ) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 16 12:01:03 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:01:03 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3CCC7D71-E607-4C3B-943B-A4D332B4B616@phulse.com> Jim, This is very good advice. Nicely written. - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 9:16 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Shamil: > > The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had > no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. > Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties > when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it > sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard > configuration. > > If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx > they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is > also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux > desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and > capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has > the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could > host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches > up.) > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All > will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, > music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and > on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have > regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user > can get use to using either as they are very similar. > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is > relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak > it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of > these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL > can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be > tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and > investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? > > If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there > are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever > need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows > or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to > help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. > > Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. > The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or > in both and how much the initial products cost. > > Some other points to consider: > 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no > intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if > left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be > rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it > is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. > 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) > 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary > products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 > contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent > Windows products. > 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. > > Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They > are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but > OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the > next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 16 12:12:38 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:12:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: <6D4BC8D1A20546D9A663A6BCD03FCDE3@creativesystemdesigns.com> Good one Hans...well written. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 9:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive Hi Shamil, > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions: If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: 1. They really need a certain feature 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > Thank you for your reply. > > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > > "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > > "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> >> Hi Shamil, >> >> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. >> >> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. >> >> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. >> >> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. >> >> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. >> >> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. >> >> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). >> >> - Hans >> >> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >>> Hans -- >>> >>> Than you for your remark. >>> >>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) >>> >>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... >>> >>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? >>> >>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >>>> >>>> >>>> Shamil, >>>> >>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >>>> >>>> - Hans >>>> >>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jim, John at all, >>>>> >>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>>>> >>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>>>> >>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>>>> >>>>> .Now take >>>>> >>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>>>> >>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>>>> >>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >>>>>> John: >>>>>> >>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>>>> ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>>>> >>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jim >>>>>> >>>>>> ) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 12:28:42 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:28:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EC400DA.7020707@colbyconsulting.com> > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. I think this is particularly huge. I know I am familiar with MSSQL. However it was a few short years ago that I was cursing MSSQL for its obtuseness. Now that I "know it" I do not want to switch. But intellectually I think that becoming comfortable with MySQL is a necessity (for me). I work in small businesses where MS licensing is an issue for many reasons including complexity and cost. Having a free, open and powerful alternative can only be a good thing (for me). John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 12:44 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > > Hi Shamil, > >> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. > > In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > > >> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > > >> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) > > You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. > > Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > > >> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? > > If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. > > > If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. > > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > > > - Hans From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 12:33:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:33:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about "needing to reboot after updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows Server 2008 and SQL Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL variant. Then I will truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much so as any system can expect. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Shamil: > > The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had > no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. > Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties > when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it > sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard > configuration. > > If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx > they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is > also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux > desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and > capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has > the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could > host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches > up.) > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All > will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, > music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and > on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have > regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user > can get use to using either as they are very similar. > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is > relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak > it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of > these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL > can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be > tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and > investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? > > If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there > are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever > need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows > or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to > help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. > > Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. > The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or > in both and how much the initial products cost. > > Some other points to consider: > 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no > intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if > left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be > rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it > is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. > 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) > 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary > products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 > contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent > Windows products. > 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. > > Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They > are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but > OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the > next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. > > Jim > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 16 13:35:46 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:35:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, I've never seen a Linux server to have its stability degrade over time, unless there was a serious problem going on (like hardware failure). I have known Windows servers to have stability problems, but more often than not, this is usually due to poor quality drivers and/or the use of consumer grade hardware or software with memory leaks. But, unless you know exactly what you are doing, you will still find that you need to reboot Linux servers on occasions after a software update if there is a serious kernel patch. It doesn't happen as often as on Windows, but we used to have a very neat tool called Ksplice, which can patch a running kernel on the fly. Unfortunately, Oracle bought the company that ran that product and immediately dropped support for other distros other than its own (as if I really needed another reason to despise Oracle). :p I haven't checked what our uptimes are on at my (Debian) server farm. I'll have a look in a bit. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-16, at 10:33 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. > > I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about "needing to reboot after updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows Server 2008 and SQL Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. > > One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL variant. Then I will truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much so as any system can expect. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Shamil: >> >> The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had >> no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. >> Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties >> when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it >> sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard >> configuration. >> >> If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx >> they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is >> also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux >> desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and >> capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has >> the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could >> host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches >> up.) >> >> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >> configuration of both. >> >> This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All >> will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, >> music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and >> on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have >> regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user >> can get use to using either as they are very similar. >> >> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >> configuration of both. >> >> I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is >> relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak >> it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of >> these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL >> can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be >> tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and >> investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? >> >> If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there >> are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever >> need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows >> or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to >> help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. >> >> Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. >> The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or >> in both and how much the initial products cost. >> >> Some other points to consider: >> 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no >> intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if >> left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be >> rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it >> is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. >> 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) >> 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary >> products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 >> contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent >> Windows products. >> 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. >> >> Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They >> are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but >> OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the >> next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. >> >> Jim >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Wed Nov 16 13:40:47 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:40:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: Folks, I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). I have not been able to find a way to do this. Thanks for your help and advice. Sincerely, Brad From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 16 15:06:14 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:06:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC400DA.7020707@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com>, <4EC400DA.7020707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EC425C6.5389.2869CA06@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> As I recall, it was more a case of you were cursing everyone on the dba-SQLServer list for their obtuseness when answering your questions. :-) -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:28, jwcolby wrote: > I think this is particularly huge. I know I am familiar with MSSQL. However it was a few short > years ago that I was cursing MSSQL for its obtuseness. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 16 15:13:56 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:13:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4EC42794.18550.2870D80A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > Folks, > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > Sincerely, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 15:23:00 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:23:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Mushkin 120 gb SATA III Message-ID: <4EC429B4.3090605@colbyconsulting.com> A great price on these for those in the USA. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008120%20600038519%20600038484&IsNodeId=1&name=120GB -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Nov 16 15:31:35 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:31:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857A@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Would a print screen do if you could send the key strokes Martin Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Stuart McLachlan Sent: 16/11/2011 21:15 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > Folks, > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > Sincerely, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Nov 16 15:33:53 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:33:53 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857C@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Or See this thread http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233108 Martin Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Stuart McLachlan Sent: 16/11/2011 21:15 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > Folks, > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > Sincerely, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 15:40:31 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:40:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC425C6.5389.2869CA06@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com>, <4EC400DA.7020707@colbyconsulting.com> <4EC425C6.5389.2869CA06@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EC42DCF.5080401@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, that too. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 4:06 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > As I recall, it was more a case of you were cursing everyone on the dba-SQLServer list for > their obtuseness when answering your questions. :-) > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 16 16:15:12 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:15:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857C@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857C@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4EC435F0.21723.28A8EFA1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Well blow me down, who'd a thunk it? Worksheets("Sheet1").Range("A1:D4").CopyPicture xlScreen, xlBitmap Once you have the image on the clipboard, you can use the example OleCreatePictureIndirect() code directly in Access to do it. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 21:33, Martin Reid wrote: > Or > > See this thread > > http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233108 > > Martin > > Sent from my Windows Phone > ________________________________ > From: Stuart McLachlan > Sent: 16/11/2011 21:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File > > I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows > Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is > essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. > > -- > Stuart > > On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > > > Folks, > > > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > > > Sincerely, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 16 16:18:09 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:18:09 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John: One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but through some MS Update that setting was modified. I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data that I knew anything was wrong. >From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about "needing to reboot after updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows Server 2008 and SQL Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL variant. Then I will truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much so as any system can expect. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Shamil: > > The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had > no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. > Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties > when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it > sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard > configuration. > > If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx > they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is > also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux > desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and > capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has > the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could > host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches > up.) > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All > will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, > music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and > on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have > regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user > can get use to using either as they are very similar. > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is > relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak > it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of > these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL > can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be > tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and > investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? > > If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there > are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever > need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows > or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to > help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. > > Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. > The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or > in both and how much the initial products cost. > > Some other points to consider: > 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no > intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if > left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be > rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it > is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. > 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) > 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary > products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 > contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent > Windows products. > 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. > > Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They > are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but > OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the > next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. > > Jim > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 16 17:02:35 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 23:02:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DA59B@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> No probs Shamil, It is always good to explore these issues. This role I am in now is a little unique compared to other positions I have had. In the past I have usually been involved with building rock solid user solutions that are rolled out over a business. They have to look good, function well and be nice and strong and stable as the user are just users who do what they do. They generally also follow a structured business workflow or plan and are fairly constrained on their input and outputs. If I have had the advantage of working with SQL Server I would usually get access to a big enterprise setup which was managed by dedicated DBA's with all the bells and whistles. There were always rules about what could and couldn't be done etc. In this sort of environment I can see your point about TCO and economies of scale and maintenance etc. Now in this role, I work with a small company in a team of 4 other guys and we manipulate large volumes of data which are project specific. Each project is largely unique so whilst we have a sort of framework we use, there is a lot of 'start from scratch' stuff in the early days when we get the data from the clients. In this role there is no need for nice GUI's for the users, or functionality or anything like. It is mostly pure data and brute force processing power to get the clients data into a useable framework for our processes. In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access. That is what I love about this role. It really is very different and hands on - without any hassle of having to spend hours and hours building a functional UI or even a functional DB. I mean we do built GUI for us, but they don't have to be rock solid and stable as they guys here are all data nerds like me and generally know there way around this stuff. One of the best and most interesting roles I have ever had. Now, based on this, I am probably not the best person to ask. One day we may have a dedicated and central server for processing data, but right now all of our heavy duty processing machines (about 25 of them) run our propriety software that actually produces the results for the clients. Think of what we do as drive the heavy bulldozers and trucks that mash the data and prepare it for processing. Hope that makes sense. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 7:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. But you didn't account Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) which includes your project development and support costs, did you? I''m not asking for concrete figures but for evaluation based on your or others past experiences. Once again: TCO - C#/.NET 4.0 (VS2010) vs. mySQL + ...(?) .... Did you try to split your MS SQL Express db into several parts? Would that splitting introduce too much complexity to your business application development? How do you process your large data volumes? .... Instead of "blindly switching to mySQL" wouldn't it be better first try to evaluate long term costs? .... Darryl, I'm not trying to insult you or others with my questions here - these are more questions to myself how inexpensive is that "mySQL free cheese" in long run? Anybody tried to calculate that? Yes, I know many companies do not have that much of free money to pay to MS SQL licences up-front but with proper development plan/road-map there should be a way to make that licences affordable for them in long run - I mean if that companies have a profitable business and your development makes this business even more profitable then MS SQL should be a better choice provided your back-end isn't just a "dumb" relational db but needs rich (T)-SQL and many other features you're getting with MS SQL "out-of-the-box"... Thank you. -- Shamil 16 ?????? 2011, 02:39 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Hi Shamil, > > Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. > > However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. > > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. > > Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy << > http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << > http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Defau > lt.aspx>> > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << > http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more > 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Well, > > > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > > > Cheers > > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > > more expensive > > > > Thank you, Arthur, > > > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, > > > the workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few > > > hard disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a > > > USB hard disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot > > > the flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run > > > Chrome as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > > > A. > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 17:29:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:29:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EC4474F.8090208@colbyconsulting.com> I absolutely agree. MS has a lot of nerve assuming that they can reboot any server without permission. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 5:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > >> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:33 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > moreexpensive > > >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone > for too long it will > start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. > > I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about > "needing to reboot after > updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows > Server 2008 and SQL > Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. > > One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL > variant. Then I will > truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much > so as any system can expect. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Shamil: >> >> The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux > had >> no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. >> Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late > nineties >> when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it >> sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard >> configuration. >> >> If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx >> they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this > is >> also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux >> desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit > and >> capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS > has >> the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could >> host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware > catches >> up.) >> >> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >> configuration of both. >> >> This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All >> will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, >> music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products > and >> on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have >> regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any > user >> can get use to using either as they are very similar. >> >> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >> configuration of both. >> >> I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it > is >> relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak >> it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) > of >> these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL >> can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be >> tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training > and >> investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? >> >> If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there >> are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever >> need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows >> or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to >> help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. >> >> Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. >> The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either > or >> in both and how much the initial products cost. >> >> Some other points to consider: >> 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no >> intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and > if >> left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be >> rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least > it >> is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. >> 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) >> 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary >> products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 >> contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent >> Windows products. >> 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. >> >> Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. > They >> are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but >> OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for > the >> next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. >> >> Jim >> From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 16 17:40:15 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:40:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC4474F.8090208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> <4EC4474F.8090208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <2E25C8B2-B90C-40E7-A8F3-04858F2E96A8@phulse.com> Jim, Wow, it happened again, eh? - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 3:29 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I absolutely agree. MS has a lot of nerve assuming that they can reboot any server without permission. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/16/2011 5:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi John: >> >> One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server >> 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but >> through some MS Update that setting was modified. >> >> I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type >> request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a >> MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. >> It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data >> that I knew anything was wrong. >> >>> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and >> it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. >> >> Jim >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:33 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY >> moreexpensive >> >> >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone >> for too long it will >> start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. >> >> I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about >> "needing to reboot after >> updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows >> Server 2008 and SQL >> Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. >> >> One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL >> variant. Then I will >> truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much >> so as any system can expect. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Hi Shamil: >>> >>> The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux >> had >>> no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. >>> Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late >> nineties >>> when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it >>> sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard >>> configuration. >>> >>> If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx >>> they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this >> is >>> also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux >>> desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit >> and >>> capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS >> has >>> the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could >>> host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware >> catches >>> up.) >>> >>> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >>> configuration of both. >>> >>> This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All >>> will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, >>> music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products >> and >>> on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have >>> regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any >> user >>> can get use to using either as they are very similar. >>> >>> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >>> configuration of both. >>> >>> I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it >> is >>> relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak >>> it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) >> of >>> these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL >>> can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be >>> tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training >> and >>> investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? >>> >>> If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there >>> are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever >>> need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows >>> or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to >>> help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. >>> >>> Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. >>> The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either >> or >>> in both and how much the initial products cost. >>> >>> Some other points to consider: >>> 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no >>> intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and >> if >>> left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be >>> rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least >> it >>> is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. >>> 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) >>> 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary >>> products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 >>> contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent >>> Windows products. >>> 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. >>> >>> Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. >> They >>> are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but >>> OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for >> the >>> next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. >>> >>> Jim >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 16 17:51:16 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:51:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <2E25C8B2-B90C-40E7-A8F3-04858F2E96A8@phulse.com> References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> <4EC4474F.8090208@colbyconsulting.com> <2E25C8B2-B90C-40E7-A8F3-04858F2E96A8@phulse.com> Message-ID: <2956286C6F6F4E6FA3E1E5438E7E2C6B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Yes Hans, you will recognize this as an ongoing wine. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 3:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive Jim, Wow, it happened again, eh? - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 3:29 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I absolutely agree. MS has a lot of nerve assuming that they can reboot any server without permission. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/16/2011 5:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi John: >> >> One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server >> 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but >> through some MS Update that setting was modified. >> >> I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type >> request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a >> MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. >> It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data >> that I knew anything was wrong. >> >>> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and >> it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. >> >> Jim >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:33 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY >> moreexpensive >> >> >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone >> for too long it will >> start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. >> >> I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about >> "needing to reboot after >> updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows >> Server 2008 and SQL >> Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. >> >> One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL >> variant. Then I will >> truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much >> so as any system can expect. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Hi Shamil: >>> >>> The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux >> had >>> no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. >>> Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late >> nineties >>> when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it >>> sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard >>> configuration. >>> >>> If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx >>> they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this >> is >>> also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux >>> desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit >> and >>> capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS >> has >>> the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could >>> host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware >> catches >>> up.) >>> >>> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >>> configuration of both. >>> >>> This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All >>> will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, >>> music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products >> and >>> on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have >>> regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any >> user >>> can get use to using either as they are very similar. >>> >>> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >>> configuration of both. >>> >>> I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it >> is >>> relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak >>> it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) >> of >>> these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL >>> can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be >>> tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training >> and >>> investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? >>> >>> If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there >>> are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever >>> need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows >>> or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to >>> help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. >>> >>> Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. >>> The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either >> or >>> in both and how much the initial products cost. >>> >>> Some other points to consider: >>> 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no >>> intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and >> if >>> left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be >>> rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least >> it >>> is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. >>> 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) >>> 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary >>> products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 >>> contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent >>> Windows products. >>> 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. >>> >>> Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. >> They >>> are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but >>> OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for >> the >>> next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. >>> >>> Jim >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Nov 17 01:51:22 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:51:22 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Message-ID: Hi Jim et al Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: "Install updates automatically (recommended)" instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> Hi John: One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but through some MS Update that setting was modified. I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data that I knew anything was wrong. >From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. Jim From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Nov 17 02:09:00 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 00:09:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67AF3394-BAE7-4B82-BD29-8497BCD53804@phulse.com> Hej Gustav, Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Nov 17 03:06:54 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:06:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Message-ID: Hi Hans Yes, that is strange. Or does a category "Extremely urgent updates that overrules setting for later install" for updates exist? /gustav >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 17-11-2011 09:09 >>> Hej Gustav, Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 17 07:04:08 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:04:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC50648.1070301@colbyconsulting.com> Gustav, I have had this happen to me as well. I set ALL my machines to download and notify me and suddenly I come in and the server has rebooted and informs me that an update was done which required a reboot. The only thing I can figure is that a previous update which I did reboot after has gone in and reset that setting to automatic. This is real, believe me. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 2:51 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18>>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > >> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Nov 17 07:17:25 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:17:25 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Message-ID: Hi John I listen, but I've never seen it myself. Have a dozen or so servers running - physical as well as virtual - but most are 2003; only two are 2008 and one is 2000 (= zero updates!) /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 17-11-2011 14:04 >>> Gustav, I have had this happen to me as well. I set ALL my machines to download and notify me and suddenly I come in and the server has rebooted and informs me that an update was done which required a reboot. The only thing I can figure is that a previous update which I did reboot after has gone in and reset that setting to automatic. This is real, believe me. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 2:51 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18>>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > >> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 08:34:11 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:34:11 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> References: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? .... etc ... IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... Hans you noted: <<<<<<<<<<< But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: 1. They really need a certain feature 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. As Darryl writes: <<<< In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > Hi Shamil, > > > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. > > In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > > > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > > > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) > > You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. > > Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > > > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? > > If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. > > If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. > > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > > - Hans > > On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Hans -- > > > > Thank you for your reply. > > > > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > > > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > > > And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > > > > "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > > > > "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >> > >> > >> Hi Shamil, > >> > >> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. > >> > >> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. > >> > >> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. > >> > >> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. > >> > >> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. > >> > >> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. > >> > >> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). > >> > >> - Hans > >> > >> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> > >>> Hans -- > >>> > >>> Than you for your remark. > >>> > >>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > >>> > >>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > >>> > >>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > >>> > >>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >>> > >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Shamil, > >>>> > >>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > >>>> > >>>> - Hans > >>>> > >>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Jim, John at all, > >>>>> > >>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. > >>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > >>>>> > >>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > >>>>> > >>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > >>>>> > >>>>> .Now take > >>>>> > >>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > >>>>> > >>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > >>>>> > >>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > >>>>>> John: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >>>>>> ;-) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Jim > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ) > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> AccessD mailing list > >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 17 10:59:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:59:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EC53D89.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, If you read my original post closely you will see that it a client bringing up a new server, *not* my server here at my home office which is where I run the custom written C# program and SQL Server BE. As I think I stated in my original post, this client is at a transition point. They have to select an OS and a database engine. Their system uses Access backends, which we have split into many files due to size constraints. So for *this client* it is appropriate to study which route makes more sense. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > > Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > > I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > > How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > .... etc ... > > IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > > You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > > I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > > Hans you noted: > > <<<<<<<<<<< > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>>> > > I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > > As Darryl writes: > > <<<< > In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>>> > I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > > I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > > Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 > > 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >> >> Hi Shamil, >> >>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? >> >> I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. >> >> In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. >> >>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. >> >> In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) >> >>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) >> >> You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. >> >> Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. >> >>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? >> >> If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. >> >> If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. >> >> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: >> >> 1. They really need a certain feature >> >> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) >> >> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >> >> - Hans >> >> On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >>> Hi Hans -- >>> >>> Thank you for your reply. >>> >>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? >>> >>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. >>> >>> And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? >>> >>> "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" >>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... >>> >>> "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." >>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> >>> 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Shamil, >>>> >>>> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web& mobile development. >>>> >>>> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts& bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. >>>> >>>> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. >>>> >>>> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. >>>> >>>> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. >>>> >>>> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. >>>> >>>> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). >>>> >>>> - Hans >>>> >>>> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hans -- >>>>> >>>>> Than you for your remark. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) >>>>> >>>>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... >>>>> >>>>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? >>>>> >>>>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Shamil, >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Hans >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Jim, John at all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>>>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>>>>>> >>>>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> .Now take >>>>>>> >>>>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Shamil >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence": >>>>>>>> John: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>>>>>> ;-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 13:00:18 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:00:18 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <4EC53D89.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC53D89.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John -- Thank you for your clarification - from you original post http://e.mail.ru/cgi-bin/msglist?542573152=&folder=0#readmsg?id=13211081120000000542&folder=3 it wasn't clear for me that you're talking about particular client considering probable moving out of using MS Windows and MS database (Access or SQL) backends, and so I mistakenly implied you're going to rework you mighty "data crunching" system to use mySQL... -- Shamil 17 ?????? 2011, 21:01 ?? jwcolby : > Shamil, > > If you read my original post closely you will see that it a client bringing up a new server, *not* > my server here at my home office which is where I run the custom written C# program and SQL Server BE. > > As I think I stated in my original post, this client is at a transition point. They have to select > an OS and a database engine. Their system uses Access backends, which we have split into many files > due to size constraints. > > So for *this client* it is appropriate to study which route makes more sense. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > > > > Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > > > > I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > > I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > > > > How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > > How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > > Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > > Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > > What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > > Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > > .... etc ... > > > > IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > > > > You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > > > > I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > > > > Hans you noted: > > > > <<<<<<<<<<< > > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > > > > As Darryl writes: > > > > <<<< > > In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access > >>>>> > > I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > > > > I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > > > > Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > > I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 > > > > 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >> > >> Hi Shamil, > >> > >>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > >> > >> I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. > >> > >> In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > >> > >>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > >> > >> In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > >> > >>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) > >> > >> You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. > >> > >> Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > >> > >>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? > >> > >> If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. > >> > >> If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. > >> > >> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > >> > >> 1. They really need a certain feature > >> > >> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > >> > >> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >> > >> - Hans > >> > >> On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Hans -- > >>> > >>> Thank you for your reply. > >>> > >>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > >>> > >>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > >>> > >>> And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > >>> > >>> "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > >>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > >>> > >>> "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > >>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >>> > >>> > >>> 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Hi Shamil, > >>>> > >>>> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web& mobile development. > >>>> > >>>> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts& bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. > >>>> > >>>> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. > >>>> > >>>> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. > >>>> > >>>> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. > >>>> > >>>> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. > >>>> > >>>> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). > >>>> > >>>> - Hans > >>>> > >>>> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hans -- > >>>>> > >>>>> Than you for your remark. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > >>>>> > >>>>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > >>>>> > >>>>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > >>>>> > >>>>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Shamil, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - Hans > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Jim, John at all, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. > >>>>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> .Now take > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thank you. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence": > >>>>>>>> John: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >>>>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >>>>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >>>>>>>> ;-) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >>>>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >>>>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >>>>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >>>>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >>>>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >>>>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Jim > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> AccessD mailing list > >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 17 13:09:47 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:09:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] TOC MySQL vs SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EC55BFB.1080506@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, OK, so now that we understand that it is in fact a client's new server that I was discussing originally, let's go ahead and discuss doing the same thing here at my home office. First take a look at this article: http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/move_from_microsoft_SQL_Server.html It would appear that I could in fact run MySQL right on my existing server should I so desire. I have built my mongo server around Windows 2008 and SQL Server 2008. I have written a custom C# application which performs massive table updates every month. Due to the fact that the server runs an X64 version of windows and I installed an X64 version of Visual Studio on the server, and the fact that the X64 version does not support "edit and continue", I actually run the C# application on vmDev which runs an X32 version of Visual Studio. The application runs on a VM and the actual database manipulations run on the X64 server. The application, written in C#, executes dynamic SQL on the server, getting back results. If I needed to, what would be the "costs" to move to MySQL? The question becomes: 1) Cost to install and come up to speed on MySQL. 2) The complexity (time) to move the data from SQL Server to MSSql. 3) What is involved in porting the code to use dynamic SQL that MySQL supports? In my case the databases I manipulate are not very complex. Typically each database has two or a few tables. I am not using stored procedures in SQL Server, in fact I have intentionally migrated away from doing so (I used to). My "stored procedures" are now C# routines and dynamic SQL. I find C# much more flexible as a language and find no need for stored procedures *for this application*. My take on migrating this application to MySQL is that I would not hesitate to do so if I needed to, and I do not currently need to. I do not need to run the C# code itself on the server so even if the database or MySQL were hosted on Linux, I could still probably run my application, assuming the Dynamic SQL port. After the migration, the TCO seems to be similar, or perhaps lower than an MS only solution since SQL Server licensing costs go away. If I were to migrate to Linux then Windows licensing costs go away. These are not insubstantial costs. I do not use Linux or MySQL so I cannot speak with authority but they both appear to have reached the point where they are not rocket science, or any more so that maintaining Windows server software is. I am really exploring this more in the context of future business. MS licensing is already so convoluted and costly that small businesses are protesting server based systems. They used to use Access and I used to recommend Access, be and fe, but am I going to continue doing so? I think not. So what do I recommend when MS wants $10K to $20K for the Windows / SQL Server licenses for a new server? For the small businesses I work for this is a large chunk of change. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > > Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > > I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > > How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > .... etc ... > > IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > > You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > > I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > > Hans you noted: > > <<<<<<<<<<< > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>>> > > I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > > As Darryl writes: > > <<<< > In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>>> > I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > > I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > > Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 17 13:12:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:12:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EC53D89.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EC55C87.3010206@colbyconsulting.com> Your link takes me to a n email login screen in Russia. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 2:00 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi John -- > > Thank you for your clarification - from you original post > > http://e.mail.ru/cgi-bin/msglist?542573152=&folder=0#readmsg?id=13211081120000000542&folder=3 > > it wasn't clear for me that you're talking about particular client considering probable moving out of using MS Windows and MS database (Access or SQL) backends, and so I mistakenly implied you're going to rework you mighty "data crunching" system to use mySQL... > > -- Shamil > > 17 ?????? 2011, 21:01 ?? jwcolby: >> Shamil, >> >> If you read my original post closely you will see that it a client bringing up a new server, *not* >> my server here at my home office which is where I run the custom written C# program and SQL Server BE. >> >> As I think I stated in my original post, this client is at a transition point. They have to select >> an OS and a database engine. Their system uses Access backends, which we have split into many files >> due to size constraints. >> >> So for *this client* it is appropriate to study which route makes more sense. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>> Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- >>> >>> Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... >>> >>> I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. >>> I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. >>> >>> How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? >>> How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? >>> Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? >>> Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? >>> What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? >>> Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? >>> .... etc ... >>> >>> IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. >>> >>> You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. >>> >>> I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... >>> >>> Hans you noted: >>> >>> <<<<<<<<<<< >>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: >>> >>> 1. They really need a certain feature >>> >>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) >>> >>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. >>> >>> As Darryl writes: >>> >>> <<<< >>> In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>>>>> >>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. >>> >>> I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. >>> >>> Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... >>> I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" >>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 >>> >>> 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>> >>>> Hi Shamil, >>>> >>>>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? >>>> >>>> I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. >>>> >>>> In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. >>>> >>>>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. >>>> >>>> In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) >>>> >>>>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) >>>> >>>> You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. >>>> >>>> Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. >>>> >>>>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? >>>> >>>> If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. >>>> >>>> If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. >>>> >>>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: >>>> >>>> 1. They really need a certain feature >>>> >>>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) >>>> >>>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>> >>>> - Hans >>>> >>>> On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Hans -- >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your reply. >>>>> >>>>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? >>>>> >>>>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. >>>>> >>>>> And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? >>>>> >>>>> "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" >>>>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... >>>>> >>>>> "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." >>>>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Shamil, >>>>>> >>>>>> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web& mobile development. >>>>>> >>>>>> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts& bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. >>>>>> >>>>>> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. >>>>>> >>>>>> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. >>>>>> >>>>>> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). >>>>>> >>>>>> - Hans >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hans -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Than you for your remark. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Shamil >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Shamil, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Hans >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jim, John at all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>>>>>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> .Now take >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- Shamil >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence": >>>>>>>>>> John: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>>>>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>>>>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>>>>>>>> ;-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>>>>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>>>>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>>>>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>>>>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>>>>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>>>>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 13:50:52 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:50:52 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <4EC55C87.3010206@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC55C87.3010206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Sorry, John, for misleading URL I have posted, I can't get at Access-D archives - I meant this your original posting: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< From: jwcolby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving , Sqlserver-Dba 12 November 2011, 18:28 http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012-licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from clients and massive switching to MySQL and the likes. I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17 ?????? 2011, 23:13 ?? jwcolby : > Your link takes me to a n email login screen in Russia. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/17/2011 2:00 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hi John -- > > > > Thank you for your clarification - from you original post > > > > http://e.mail.ru/cgi-bin/msglist?542573152=&folder=0#readmsg?id=13211081120000000542&folder=3 > > > > it wasn't clear for me that you're talking about particular client considering probable moving out of using MS Windows and MS database (Access or SQL) backends, and so I mistakenly implied you're going to rework you mighty "data crunching" system to use mySQL... > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 17 ?????? 2011, 21:01 ?? jwcolby: > >> Shamil, > >> > >> If you read my original post closely you will see that it a client bringing up a new server, *not* > >> my server here at my home office which is where I run the custom written C# program and SQL Server BE. > >> > >> As I think I stated in my original post, this client is at a transition point. They have to select > >> an OS and a database engine. Their system uses Access backends, which we have split into many files > >> due to size constraints. > >> > >> So for *this client* it is appropriate to study which route makes more sense. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> Colby Consulting > >> > >> Reality is what refuses to go away > >> when you do not believe in it > >> > >> On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>> Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > >>> > >>> Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > >>> > >>> I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > >>> I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > >>> > >>> How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > >>> How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > >>> Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > >>> Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > >>> What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > >>> Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > >>> .... etc ... > >>> > >>> IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > >>> > >>> You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > >>> > >>> I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > >>> > >>> Hans you noted: > >>> > >>> <<<<<<<<<<< > >>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > >>> > >>> 1. They really need a certain feature > >>> > >>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > >>> > >>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>> > >>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > >>> > >>> As Darryl writes: > >>> > >>> <<<< > >>> In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access > >>>>>>> > >>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > >>> > >>> I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > >>> > >>> Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > >>> I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >>> > >>> P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" > >>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 > >>> > >>> 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>> > >>>> Hi Shamil, > >>>> > >>>>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > >>>> > >>>> I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. > >>>> > >>>> In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > >>>> > >>>>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > >>>> > >>>> In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > >>>> > >>>>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) > >>>> > >>>> You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. > >>>> > >>>> Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > >>>> > >>>>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? > >>>> > >>>> If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. > >>>> > >>>> If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. > >>>> > >>>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > >>>> > >>>> 1. They really need a certain feature > >>>> > >>>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > >>>> > >>>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>> > >>>> - Hans > >>>> > >>>> On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Hans -- > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you for your reply. > >>>>> > >>>>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > >>>>> > >>>>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > >>>>> > >>>>> And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > >>>>> > >>>>> "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > >>>>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > >>>>> > >>>>> "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > >>>>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Shamil, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web& mobile development. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts& bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - Hans > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hans -- > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Than you for your remark. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thank you. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Shamil, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> - Hans > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Jim, John at all, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. > >>>>>>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> .Now take > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Thank you. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence": > >>>>>>>>>> John: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >>>>>>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >>>>>>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >>>>>>>>>> ;-) > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >>>>>>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >>>>>>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >>>>>>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >>>>>>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >>>>>>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >>>>>>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Jim > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ) > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 17 14:23:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:23:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <63724C1DCACC4A87B028141C6138BA7A@creativesystemdesigns.com> That is exactly how I set things as I have done this many times before. Maybe I may have over-looked this process once or twice but when it starts happening more on a continuous bases I starting suspecting the previous updates assistance. I have now learned after each update to go and turn-off auto-updates but I am caught occasionally. All I want it to is just stay off, period. I can understand auto-updates being the default setting on workstations but having the same on servers is crazy. IMHO, Auto-update for servers does not need to exist. Jim PS My current versions of Linux, do regular updates, always asks to start, rarely requires a reboot and always asks when it does. That process works for me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 11:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Hi Jim et al Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: "Install updates automatically (recommended)" instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> Hi John: One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but through some MS Update that setting was modified. I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data that I knew anything was wrong. >From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 17 14:29:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:29:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <789EF360B9B14964B970FBC3C6554F00@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Gustav: I would like to see a feature accompanying the update process that will email me when an urgent issue requires user intervention... Is there such a product out there or some hidden feature in the MS OS? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Hi Hans Yes, that is strange. Or does a category "Extremely urgent updates that overrules setting for later install" for updates exist? /gustav >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 17-11-2011 09:09 >>> Hej Gustav, Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 14:34:40 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 00:34:40 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?TOC_MySQL_vs_SQL_Server?= In-Reply-To: <4EC55BFB.1080506@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC55BFB.1080506@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John -- Well, you use SQL backend mainly as a "dumb" relational engine, no (advanced) server side static T-SQL Stored Procedures, no T-SQL User Defined Functions simulating "virtual" tables?.... And quite a few of custom client side metadata driven C# coding to build dynamic SQL, advanced custom UI framework etc.? Then your transition to mySQL: should be probably rather smooth... But if you use MS SQL/ .NET SQLBulkLoad classes then you might need to substitute them with custom coding ... I do it different way when using MS SQL: I'm trying to keep as much as possible business rules and logic on server side implemented in Stored Procedures, User Defined Functions, Views etc. By doing it that way I can keep my client side layer as thin and as dumb as possible, and my C# business layer not overloaded with custom "plumbing" etc. Advantages: clear "separations of concerns" of different application system layers, streamlined coding, relatively low support and functionality extensions costs, possibility to have all kinds of modern UIs using the same core business and data layers, as MS software supports all the modern UI-development technologies ... Disadvantages: I'm "bound" to MS SQL back-end... But nor I nor my customers do not care about that binding as it doesn't limit any way our freedom to support and to extend current solutions, and my customers do not yet have that much data to not fit one MS SQL Express database, even customer with more than 8000 users of an ASP.NET web site running for four years without any serious issues ... When my customers will need more processing power then we will probably move to a hosting site/cloud.... If you can split your databases into many smaller databases then you can also put them on hosting sites and "wrap" by web services still running using MS Windows, and then make your application consolidating that data - I guess it wouldn't be needed to get gigabytes of data retrieved to your client layer during such consolidation?... Thank you. -- Shamil 17 ?????? 2011, 23:11 ?? jwcolby : > Shamil, > > OK, so now that we understand that it is in fact a client's new server that I was discussing > originally, let's go ahead and discuss doing the same thing here at my home office. > > First take a look at this article: > > http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/move_from_microsoft_SQL_Server.html > > It would appear that I could in fact run MySQL right on my existing server should I so desire. > > I have built my mongo server around Windows 2008 and SQL Server 2008. I have written a custom C# > application which performs massive table updates every month. Due to the fact that the server runs > an X64 version of windows and I installed an X64 version of Visual Studio on the server, and the > fact that the X64 version does not support "edit and continue", I actually run the C# application on > vmDev which runs an X32 version of Visual Studio. > > The application runs on a VM and the actual database manipulations run on the X64 server. The > application, written in C#, executes dynamic SQL on the server, getting back results. > > If I needed to, what would be the "costs" to move to MySQL? The question becomes: > > 1) Cost to install and come up to speed on MySQL. > 2) The complexity (time) to move the data from SQL Server to MSSql. > 3) What is involved in porting the code to use dynamic SQL that MySQL supports? > > In my case the databases I manipulate are not very complex. Typically each database has two or a > few tables. I am not using stored procedures in SQL Server, in fact I have intentionally migrated > away from doing so (I used to). My "stored procedures" are now C# routines and dynamic SQL. I find > C# much more flexible as a language and find no need for stored procedures *for this application*. > > My take on migrating this application to MySQL is that I would not hesitate to do so if I needed to, > and I do not currently need to. I do not need to run the C# code itself on the server so even if > the database or MySQL were hosted on Linux, I could still probably run my application, assuming the > Dynamic SQL port. > > After the migration, the TCO seems to be similar, or perhaps lower than an MS only solution since > SQL Server licensing costs go away. If I were to migrate to Linux then Windows licensing costs go > away. These are not insubstantial costs. I do not use Linux or MySQL so I cannot speak with > authority but they both appear to have reached the point where they are not rocket science, or any > more so that maintaining Windows server software is. > > I am really exploring this more in the context of future business. MS licensing is already so > convoluted and costly that small businesses are protesting server based systems. They used to use > Access and I used to recommend Access, be and fe, but am I going to continue doing so? I think not. > > So what do I recommend when MS wants $10K to $20K for the Windows / SQL Server licenses for a new > server? For the small businesses I work for this is a large chunk of change. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > > > > Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > > > > I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > > I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > > > > How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > > How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > > Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > > Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > > What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > > Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > > .... etc ... > > > > IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > > > > You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > > > > I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > > > > Hans you noted: > > > > <<<<<<<<<<< > > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > > > > As Darryl writes: > > > > <<<< > > In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access > >>>>> > > I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > > > > I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > > > > Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > > I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Nov 17 14:48:06 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:48:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services Environment References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: We are thinking about running Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services environment. Our Access development work would be done on a separate PC that has the "Full Version" of Access 2010. This approach is new to us and I am curious if others have tried this. Are there any issues that we should be aware of? Thanks, Brad From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Nov 17 14:50:31 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:50:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] TOC MySQL vs SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4EC55BFB.1080506@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0A20F3EC-FBF6-4150-9011-8CD69F63C5AE@phulse.com> This is my biggest issue with stored procedures. I like them in theory, but it creates an additional layer of complexity for your application/project and is less maintainable from a developers point of view - especially when you work in teams. I prefer to simply go with the philosophy which is that your business logic stays entirely in your code and you use whatever features your DBAL / ORM can provide. But this is what works for us in a CRUD + MVC environment. I guess, for a DBA, it makes more sense. - Hans On 2011-11-17, at 12:34 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > John -- > > Well, you use SQL backend mainly as a "dumb" relational engine, no (advanced) server side static T-SQL Stored Procedures, no T-SQL User Defined Functions simulating "virtual" tables?.... > And quite a few of custom client side metadata driven C# coding to build dynamic SQL, advanced custom UI framework etc.? > > Then your transition to mySQL: should be probably rather smooth... > But if you use MS SQL/ .NET SQLBulkLoad classes then you might need to substitute them with custom coding > ... > > I do it different way when using MS SQL: I'm trying to keep as much as possible business rules and logic on server side implemented in Stored Procedures, User Defined Functions, Views etc. By doing it that way I can keep my client side layer as thin and as dumb as possible, and my C# business layer not overloaded with custom "plumbing" etc. > > Advantages: clear "separations of concerns" of different application system layers, streamlined coding, relatively low support and functionality extensions costs, possibility to have all kinds of modern UIs using the same core business and data layers, as MS software supports all the modern UI-development technologies ... > > Disadvantages: I'm "bound" to MS SQL back-end... > > But nor I nor my customers do not care about that binding as it doesn't limit any way our freedom to support and to extend current solutions, and my customers do not yet have that much data to not fit one MS SQL Express database, even customer with more than 8000 users of an ASP.NET web site running for four years without any serious issues ... > > When my customers will need more processing power then we will probably move to a hosting site/cloud.... > > If you can split your databases into many smaller databases then you can also put them on hosting sites and "wrap" by web services still running using MS Windows, and then make your application consolidating that data - I guess it wouldn't be needed to get gigabytes of data retrieved to your client layer during such consolidation?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 17 ?????? 2011, 23:11 ?? jwcolby : >> Shamil, >> >> OK, so now that we understand that it is in fact a client's new server that I was discussing >> originally, let's go ahead and discuss doing the same thing here at my home office. >> >> First take a look at this article: >> >> http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/move_from_microsoft_SQL_Server.html >> >> It would appear that I could in fact run MySQL right on my existing server should I so desire. >> >> I have built my mongo server around Windows 2008 and SQL Server 2008. I have written a custom C# >> application which performs massive table updates every month. Due to the fact that the server runs >> an X64 version of windows and I installed an X64 version of Visual Studio on the server, and the >> fact that the X64 version does not support "edit and continue", I actually run the C# application on >> vmDev which runs an X32 version of Visual Studio. >> >> The application runs on a VM and the actual database manipulations run on the X64 server. The >> application, written in C#, executes dynamic SQL on the server, getting back results. >> >> If I needed to, what would be the "costs" to move to MySQL? The question becomes: >> >> 1) Cost to install and come up to speed on MySQL. >> 2) The complexity (time) to move the data from SQL Server to MSSql. >> 3) What is involved in porting the code to use dynamic SQL that MySQL supports? >> >> In my case the databases I manipulate are not very complex. Typically each database has two or a >> few tables. I am not using stored procedures in SQL Server, in fact I have intentionally migrated >> away from doing so (I used to). My "stored procedures" are now C# routines and dynamic SQL. I find >> C# much more flexible as a language and find no need for stored procedures *for this application*. >> >> My take on migrating this application to MySQL is that I would not hesitate to do so if I needed to, >> and I do not currently need to. I do not need to run the C# code itself on the server so even if >> the database or MySQL were hosted on Linux, I could still probably run my application, assuming the >> Dynamic SQL port. >> >> After the migration, the TCO seems to be similar, or perhaps lower than an MS only solution since >> SQL Server licensing costs go away. If I were to migrate to Linux then Windows licensing costs go >> away. These are not insubstantial costs. I do not use Linux or MySQL so I cannot speak with >> authority but they both appear to have reached the point where they are not rocket science, or any >> more so that maintaining Windows server software is. >> >> I am really exploring this more in the context of future business. MS licensing is already so >> convoluted and costly that small businesses are protesting server based systems. They used to use >> Access and I used to recommend Access, be and fe, but am I going to continue doing so? I think not. >> >> So what do I recommend when MS wants $10K to $20K for the Windows / SQL Server licenses for a new >> server? For the small businesses I work for this is a large chunk of change. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>> Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- >>> >>> Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... >>> >>> I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. >>> I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. >>> >>> How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? >>> How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? >>> Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? >>> Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? >>> What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? >>> Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? >>> .... etc ... >>> >>> IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. >>> >>> You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. >>> >>> I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... >>> >>> Hans you noted: >>> >>> <<<<<<<<<<< >>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: >>> >>> 1. They really need a certain feature >>> >>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) >>> >>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. >>> >>> As Darryl writes: >>> >>> <<<< >>> In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>>>>> >>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. >>> >>> I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. >>> >>> Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... >>> I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Nov 17 15:12:08 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:12:08 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheetto a JPG File References: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857C@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> <4EC435F0.21723.28A8EFA1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: All, Thanks for the assistance, I appreciate it. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 4:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheetto a JPG File Well blow me down, who'd a thunk it? Worksheets("Sheet1").Range("A1:D4").CopyPicture xlScreen, xlBitmap Once you have the image on the clipboard, you can use the example OleCreatePictureIndirect() code directly in Access to do it. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 21:33, Martin Reid wrote: > Or > > See this thread > > http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233108 > > Martin > > Sent from my Windows Phone > ________________________________ > From: Stuart McLachlan > Sent: 16/11/2011 21:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File > > I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows > Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is > essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. > > -- > Stuart > > On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > > > Folks, > > > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > > > Sincerely, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 15:37:00 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 01:37:00 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?TOC_MySQL_vs_SQL_Server?= In-Reply-To: <0A20F3EC-FBF6-4150-9011-8CD69F63C5AE@phulse.com> References: <0A20F3EC-FBF6-4150-9011-8CD69F63C5AE@phulse.com> Message-ID: Hans -- We obviously are on "different sides of barricades" concerning the question "dumb" vs. "smart' SQL backend :) If we can agree to neglect all the "hype buzz" of "developing once run on many types of backends (Access, MS SQL, mySQL,)" then can we try to evaluate from practical point of view what is more manageable/affordable to develop/have ?: 1) "dumb" backend and business layer logic concentrated in custom (C#) layer coding or 2) "as smart as possible" backend with as dumb as as possible business layer logic implemented in custom (C#) coding... Myself and yourself I suppose are basing our practice on the same conceptual point of view that there is no absolute truth and that every (technical) solutions is a "balance of interests" but we obviously keep rather different development practices. I'd expect we would not come to a common ground/any positive definitive useful in practice outcome if we will start "darting" each other saying that "A is better than B because ...." - we will very probably end up in set of useless(?) fallacies http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/index.html#index So I'd propose if you and others are interested in discussing (1) and (2) approaches outlined above just to create a list of "emotions-free" advantages and disadvantages of both approaches. Then "armored" with such lists one can make a balanced decision what approach better suites their own experiences, practices, custom requirements... Rhetoric question: Why keeping business logic in custom code but not in (as much as possible) backend SPs and UDFs is more maintainable from a developer point of view, especially if you work in teams? I do use MVC concept for a long time, you can note I have used and promoted it even in VBA - so called "DEEP object concept (1998)" but for me MVC doesn't force me to put business logic in code when it could be kept on backend side: additional abstraction layer does create some more complexity but it gives a lot more flexibility in implementing all kinds of clients without any biding to custom object layer, and it keeps as much as possible data processing on SQL Server side.... Please note I'm not stating my approach is better than yours in all contexts, and that I'm never using "dumb" backends in my solutions but I do always try to develop "smart" backend when that is possible and that happens in most cases of my practice... Thank you. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 00:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > > This is my biggest issue with stored procedures. I like them in theory, but it creates an additional layer of complexity for your application/project and is less maintainable from a developers point of view - especially when you work in teams. I prefer to simply go with the philosophy which is that your business logic stays entirely in your code and you use whatever features your DBAL / ORM can provide. But this is what works for us in a CRUD + MVC environment. I guess, for a DBA, it makes more sense. > > - Hans > > On 2011-11-17, at 12:34 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > John -- > > > > Well, you use SQL backend mainly as a "dumb" relational engine, no (advanced) server side static T-SQL Stored Procedures, no T-SQL User Defined Functions simulating "virtual" tables?.... > > And quite a few of custom client side metadata driven C# coding to build dynamic SQL, advanced custom UI framework etc.? > > > > Then your transition to mySQL: should be probably rather smooth... > > But if you use MS SQL/ .NET SQLBulkLoad classes then you might need to substitute them with custom coding > > ... > > > > I do it different way when using MS SQL: I'm trying to keep as much as possible business rules and logic on server side implemented in Stored Procedures, User Defined Functions, Views etc. By doing it that way I can keep my client side layer as thin and as dumb as possible, and my C# business layer not overloaded with custom "plumbing" etc. > > > > Advantages: clear "separations of concerns" of different application system layers, streamlined coding, relatively low support and functionality extensions costs, possibility to have all kinds of modern UIs using the same core business and data layers, as MS software supports all the modern UI-development technologies ... > > > > Disadvantages: I'm "bound" to MS SQL back-end... > > > > But nor I nor my customers do not care about that binding as it doesn't limit any way our freedom to support and to extend current solutions, and my customers do not yet have that much data to not fit one MS SQL Express database, even customer with more than 8000 users of an ASP.NET web site running for four years without any serious issues ... > > > > When my customers will need more processing power then we will probably move to a hosting site/cloud.... > > > > If you can split your databases into many smaller databases then you can also put them on hosting sites and "wrap" by web services still running using MS Windows, and then make your application consolidating that data - I guess it wouldn't be needed to get gigabytes of data retrieved to your client layer during such consolidation?... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > 17 ?????? 2011, 23:11 ?? jwcolby : > >> Shamil, > >> > >> OK, so now that we understand that it is in fact a client's new server that I was discussing > >> originally, let's go ahead and discuss doing the same thing here at my home office. > >> > >> First take a look at this article: > >> > >> http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/move_from_microsoft_SQL_Server.html > >> > >> It would appear that I could in fact run MySQL right on my existing server should I so desire. > >> > >> I have built my mongo server around Windows 2008 and SQL Server 2008. I have written a custom C# > >> application which performs massive table updates every month. Due to the fact that the server runs > >> an X64 version of windows and I installed an X64 version of Visual Studio on the server, and the > >> fact that the X64 version does not support "edit and continue", I actually run the C# application on > >> vmDev which runs an X32 version of Visual Studio. > >> > >> The application runs on a VM and the actual database manipulations run on the X64 server. The > >> application, written in C#, executes dynamic SQL on the server, getting back results. > >> > >> If I needed to, what would be the "costs" to move to MySQL? The question becomes: > >> > >> 1) Cost to install and come up to speed on MySQL. > >> 2) The complexity (time) to move the data from SQL Server to MSSql. > >> 3) What is involved in porting the code to use dynamic SQL that MySQL supports? > >> > >> In my case the databases I manipulate are not very complex. Typically each database has two or a > >> few tables. I am not using stored procedures in SQL Server, in fact I have intentionally migrated > >> away from doing so (I used to). My "stored procedures" are now C# routines and dynamic SQL. I find > >> C# much more flexible as a language and find no need for stored procedures *for this application*. > >> > >> My take on migrating this application to MySQL is that I would not hesitate to do so if I needed to, > >> and I do not currently need to. I do not need to run the C# code itself on the server so even if > >> the database or MySQL were hosted on Linux, I could still probably run my application, assuming the > >> Dynamic SQL port. > >> > >> After the migration, the TCO seems to be similar, or perhaps lower than an MS only solution since > >> SQL Server licensing costs go away. If I were to migrate to Linux then Windows licensing costs go > >> away. These are not insubstantial costs. I do not use Linux or MySQL so I cannot speak with > >> authority but they both appear to have reached the point where they are not rocket science, or any > >> more so that maintaining Windows server software is. > >> > >> I am really exploring this more in the context of future business. MS licensing is already so > >> convoluted and costly that small businesses are protesting server based systems. They used to use > >> Access and I used to recommend Access, be and fe, but am I going to continue doing so? I think not. > >> > >> So what do I recommend when MS wants $10K to $20K for the Windows / SQL Server licenses for a new > >> server? For the small businesses I work for this is a large chunk of change. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> Colby Consulting > >> > >> Reality is what refuses to go away > >> when you do not believe in it > >> > >> On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>> Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > >>> > >>> Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > >>> > >>> I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > >>> I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > >>> > >>> How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > >>> How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > >>> Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > >>> Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > >>> What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > >>> Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > >>> .... etc ... > >>> > >>> IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > >>> > >>> You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > >>> > >>> I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > >>> > >>> Hans you noted: > >>> > >>> <<<<<<<<<<< > >>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > >>> > >>> 1. They really need a certain feature > >>> > >>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > >>> > >>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>> > >>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > >>> > >>> As Darryl writes: > >>> > >>> <<<< > >>> In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access > >>>>>>> > >>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > >>> > >>> I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > >>> > >>> Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > >>> I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 17 15:45:42 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:45:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services Environment In-Reply-To: References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <005001cca572$41abe1a0$c503a4e0$@net> Your only challenge might be to keep the two environments synched as far as versions go. I'm not sure the issue of the run-time aways being the same as the full-version was resolved...was it ? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 3:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services > Environment > > We are thinking about running Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal > Services > environment. > > Our Access development work would be done on a separate PC that has the > "Full Version" of Access 2010. > > This approach is new to us and I am curious if others have tried this. > > Are there any issues that we should be aware of? > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 15:58:48 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 01:58:48 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?How_to_configure_WUA_=28was=3A_New_SQL_Server?= =?utf-8?b?CWxpY2Vuc2UJc2NoZW1lIC4uLik=?= In-Reply-To: <789EF360B9B14964B970FBC3C6554F00@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <789EF360B9B14964B970FBC3C6554F00@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim, Windows Management Instrumentation based solution could work for you I suppose - here is a bunch of URLs: C#/WMI: How to remotely check if Windows has updates ready to be installed? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3615895/c-wmi-how-to-remotely-check-if-windows-has-updates-ready-to-be-installed How to monitor Windows Update Status via WMI? http://www.paessler.com/knowledgebase/en/topic/3453-how-to-monitor-windows-update-status-via-wmi WMI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Management_Instrumentation WBEM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web-Based_Enterprise_Management CIM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Information_Model_(computing) WMI Explorer http://www.ks-soft.net/hostmon.eng/wmi/index.htm LINQ to WMI http://linq2wmi.codeplex.com/ .. Thank you. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 00:31 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Hi Gustav: > > I would like to see a feature accompanying the update process that will > email me when an urgent issue requires user intervention... > > Is there such a product out there or some hidden feature in the MS OS? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:07 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license > scheme ...) > > Hi Hans > > Yes, that is strange. Or does a category "Extremely urgent updates that > overrules setting for later install" for updates exist? > > /gustav > > >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 17-11-2011 09:09 >>> > Hej Gustav, > > Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to > download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? > > Best regards, > Hans-Christian Andersen > > On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > > > Hi Jim et al > > > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for > Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority > server expected to run 24/7: > > > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > > Hi John: > > > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual > but > > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have > a > > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his > data > > that I knew anything was wrong. > > > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 17 16:40:43 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:40:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: <789EF360B9B14964B970FBC3C6554F00@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <285AD12C0F9C4279942930B437AB4548@creativesystemdesigns.com> Thanks Shamil...I will definitely look into this. No more surprise reboots would be a real plus. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Hi Jim, Windows Management Instrumentation based solution could work for you I suppose - here is a bunch of URLs: C#/WMI: How to remotely check if Windows has updates ready to be installed? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3615895/c-wmi-how-to-remotely-check-if-wi ndows-has-updates-ready-to-be-installed How to monitor Windows Update Status via WMI? http://www.paessler.com/knowledgebase/en/topic/3453-how-to-monitor-windows-u pdate-status-via-wmi WMI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Management_Instrumentation WBEM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web-Based_Enterprise_Management CIM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Information_Model_(computing) WMI Explorer http://www.ks-soft.net/hostmon.eng/wmi/index.htm LINQ to WMI http://linq2wmi.codeplex.com/ .. Thank you. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 00:31 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Hi Gustav: > > I would like to see a feature accompanying the update process that will > email me when an urgent issue requires user intervention... > > Is there such a product out there or some hidden feature in the MS OS? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:07 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license > scheme ...) > > Hi Hans > > Yes, that is strange. Or does a category "Extremely urgent updates that > overrules setting for later install" for updates exist? > > /gustav > > >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 17-11-2011 09:09 >>> > Hej Gustav, > > Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to > download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? > > Best regards, > Hans-Christian Andersen > > On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > > > Hi Jim et al > > > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for > Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority > server expected to run 24/7: > > > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > > Hi John: > > > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual > but > > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have > a > > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his > data > > that I knew anything was wrong. > > > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Nov 18 03:54:41 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:54:41 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Office_365_-_custom_development_using_Excel_C?= =?utf-8?q?alculation_Services_=28ECS=29_and_Word_Automation_Services_=28W?= =?utf-8?b?QVMp?= Message-ID: Hi All -- Does anybody practices subj? Do ECS and WAS available within Office 365 hosting plans? Here are some informational links: Office 365 List of Microsoft Office 365 Service Provider Partners http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/list-of-microsoft-office-365-service-provider-partners/ Minimum System Requirements for Office 365 http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/minimum-system-requirements-for-office-365/ Developing with SharePoint 2010 Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx Developing for SharePoint 2010 Excel Services Using Web Services or the Excel Services REST API http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff640648.aspx Open XML SDK + Office Services: Better Together http://blogs.msdn.com/b/brian_jones/archive/2010/02/26/open-xml-sdk-office-services-better-together.aspx Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Nov 18 06:19:11 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:19:11 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?OT=3A_=22I_feel_your_pain=2C_man!=22_or_=22Pr?= =?utf-8?q?ogrammers_are_most_effective_when_they_avoid_writing_code=2E=2E?= =?utf-8?b?LiI=?= Message-ID: Hi All, This and the other day I have read through and collected a set of links on articles I liked to read about our profession, authored mainly by John D. Cook (http://www.johndcook.com/blog/) and I'd like to share that links with you for your Friday/weekend reading: Enjoy! "... no matter how often you want to play the role of a hero, there will always be circumstances that test the limits of your ability to be one. It?s difficult to judge when helping someone means doing something immoral, and it?s even harder to admit you are unable to solve someone?s problem ? and chances are, that someone will view you as incompetent because you were unable to help them..." Your job is trivial. (But I couldn?t do it.) http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/01/14/your-job-is-trivial-but-i-couldnt-do-it/ Why Can't Programmers.. Program? http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html The buck stops with the programmer http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/19/the-buck-stops-with-the-programmer/ The dark side of linchpins http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/05/10/the-dark-side-of-linchpins/ Do you really want to be indispensable? http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/04/22/being-indispensable/ Where does the programming effort go? http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/18/where-does-the-programming-effort-go/ Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/12/23/why-programmers-are-not-paid-in-proportion-to-their-productivity/ Whatever happened to programming http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/whatever-happened-to-programming/?Programming The plumber programmer http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/11/15/plumber-programmers/ Programming the last mile http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/29/programming-the-last-mile/ It doesn?t pay to be the computer guy http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/11/22/the-computer-guy/ 10 Reasons It Doesn?t Pay To Be ?The Computer Guy? http://www.lifereboot.com/2007/10-reasons-it-doesnt-pay-to-be-the-computer-guy/ Why there will always be programmers http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/10/27/why-there-will-always-be-programmers/ ... Thank you. -- Shamil From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Fri Nov 18 08:14:55 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:14:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] EatBloat latest version?? availability Message-ID: Hi Folks, I've gone through old posts and see references that Dan was working on version 5, also that others were working on a .net version. However, I'm running Acc2003 and am looking for the latest version of the EatBloat routine Was it ever set up on databaseadvisors.com? I looked and didn't find it. Thanks in advance. Jack From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Nov 18 11:30:48 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:30:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most effective when they avoid writing code..." In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <363FB114CEFE4062B345D2BA48A28EC5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Very interesting stuff Shamil. It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and now everything is working. The clients like to see more concern and effort and sometimes fixed something fast can be bad for you as a programmer. This of course why I like a flat rate type insurance-policy support contracts. Sometimes you are not paid for what you do but if you do it right, in the first place, it can go for months with little more than a status report and an invoice. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most effective when they avoid writing code..." Hi All, This and the other day I have read through and collected a set of links on articles I liked to read about our profession, authored mainly by John D. Cook (http://www.johndcook.com/blog/) and I'd like to share that links with you for your Friday/weekend reading: Enjoy! "... no matter how often you want to play the role of a hero, there will always be circumstances that test the limits of your ability to be one. It's difficult to judge when helping someone means doing something immoral, and it's even harder to admit you are unable to solve someone's problem - and chances are, that someone will view you as incompetent because you were unable to help them..." Your job is trivial. (But I couldn't do it.) http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/01/14/your-job-is-trivial-but-i-couldnt-d o-it/ Why Can't Programmers.. Program? http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html The buck stops with the programmer http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/19/the-buck-stops-with-the-programmer/ The dark side of linchpins http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/05/10/the-dark-side-of-linchpins/ Do you really want to be indispensable? http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/04/22/being-indispensable/ Where does the programming effort go? http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/18/where-does-the-programming-effort-g o/ Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/12/23/why-programmers-are-not-paid-in-pro portion-to-their-productivity/ Whatever happened to programming http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/whatever-happened-to-programming/?Pro gramming The plumber programmer http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/11/15/plumber-programmers/ Programming the last mile http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/29/programming-the-last-mile/ It doesn't pay to be the computer guy http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/11/22/the-computer-guy/ 10 Reasons It Doesn't Pay To Be "The Computer Guy" http://www.lifereboot.com/2007/10-reasons-it-doesnt-pay-to-be-the-computer-g uy/ Why there will always be programmers http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/10/27/why-there-will-always-be-programmer s/ ... Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 18 15:20:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:20:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] XP vs Vista vs sp1 vs 2008 vs 32 vs 64 benchmarked Message-ID: <4EC6CC07.5050207@colbyconsulting.com> http://forum.notebookreview.com/windows-os-software/242891-xp-vs-vista-vs-sp1-vs-2008-vs-32-vs-64-benchmarked.html -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Nov 18 16:08:40 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 14:08:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] XP vs Vista vs sp1 vs 2008 vs 32 vs 64 benchmarked In-Reply-To: <4EC6CC07.5050207@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC6CC07.5050207@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Interesting, but a shame it's from 2008 and doesnt include Win7. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-18, at 1:20 PM, jwcolby wrote: > > http://forum.notebookreview.com/windows-os-software/242891-xp-vs-vista-vs-sp1-vs-2008-vs-32-vs-64-benchmarked.html > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Fri Nov 18 17:08:57 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:08:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services Environment References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> <005001cca572$41abe1a0$c503a4e0$@net> Message-ID: Mark, Thanks for the help/info. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 3:46 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services Environment Your only challenge might be to keep the two environments synched as far as versions go. I'm not sure the issue of the run-time aways being the same as the full-version was resolved...was it ? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 3:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services > Environment > > We are thinking about running Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal > Services > environment. > > Our Access development work would be done on a separate PC that has the > "Full Version" of Access 2010. > > This approach is new to us and I am curious if others have tried this. > > Are there any issues that we should be aware of? > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 18 17:43:47 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:43:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I know the feeling so well: http://xkcd.com/979/ -- Stuart From john at winhaven.net Fri Nov 18 18:20:14 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 18:20:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <033801cca651$0243a090$06cae1b0$@winhaven.net> Yea, been there with you. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 5:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that I know the feeling so well: http://xkcd.com/979/ -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Nov 18 19:51:10 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:51:10 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <84B116FF8B2448E0989A814175F8CBEF@creativesystemdesigns.com> I recognized that error. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 3:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that I know the feeling so well: http://xkcd.com/979/ -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Sat Nov 19 08:12:09 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:12:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] EatBloat latest version?? availability --- EIasT - further review Message-ID: Dan, Further to my (off list) note from late last night, I did a little more review. I opened the EIasT.mdb with a breakpoint to allow stepping thru the code. In the problem data base, the queries and forms - up to the problem form - are all exported as text as expected. After the error, the code stops on a STOP statement, as it should. If I step through, it continues with the next procedure in code and does Import the text that was previously exported. It seems I have a corrupted Form and that its source can not be retrieved. I did not find any resolution to the "there isn't enough memory to perform this operation. Close unneeded programs and try the operation again". Seems the consensus is to rebuild the form involved. So from an EIasT view, I did use the utility against another database and all was well. It did build a directory and saved all queries, forms, reports and nodules (I don't have any macros), It did import all the text. It does Compact and Repair. And the database , original and rebuilt are available. Good stuuf. I'm impressed with your code. No wasted code; very concise. I especially like the line numbers in the vba. I take it that is based on your use of FMC utilities. The progress bars are a nice feature - seems there are lots of people trying to build these based on forums I've seen. Again, thanks for responding quickly, and thanks for the EIasT code. Perhaps it should be made available at databaseadvisors as a utility. Jack From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Nov 19 08:14:18 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 18:14:18 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?OT=3A_=22I_feel_your_pain=2C_man!=22_or_=22Pr?= =?utf-8?q?ogrammers_are_most_effective_when_they_avoid_writing_code=2E=2E?= =?utf-8?b?LiI=?= In-Reply-To: <363FB114CEFE4062B345D2BA48A28EC5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <363FB114CEFE4062B345D2BA48A28EC5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- > It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on > site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and > now everything is working. Yes, that's true: "Some things you just can't explain..." http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/00/Jan/explain.html :) Have nice weekend. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 21:32 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Very interesting stuff Shamil. > > It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on > site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and > now everything is working. > > The clients like to see more concern and effort and sometimes fixed > something fast can be bad for you as a programmer. > > This of course why I like a flat rate type insurance-policy support > contracts. Sometimes you are not paid for what you do but if you do it > right, in the first place, it can go for months with little more than a > status report and an invoice. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:19 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most > effective when they avoid writing code..." > > Hi All, > > This and the other day I have read through and collected a set of links on > articles I liked to read about our profession, authored mainly by John D. > Cook (http://www.johndcook.com/blog/) and I'd like to share that links with > you for your Friday/weekend reading: > > Enjoy! > > "... no matter how often you want to play the role of a hero, there will > always be circumstances that test the limits of your ability to be one. It's > difficult to judge when helping someone means doing something immoral, and > it's even harder to admit you are unable to solve someone's problem - and > chances are, that someone will view you as incompetent because you were > unable to help them..." > > Your job is trivial. (But I couldn't do it.) > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/01/14/your-job-is-trivial-but-i-couldnt-d > o-it/ > > Why Can't Programmers.. Program? > http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html > > The buck stops with the programmer > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/19/the-buck-stops-with-the-programmer/ > > The dark side of linchpins > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/05/10/the-dark-side-of-linchpins/ > > Do you really want to be indispensable? > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/04/22/being-indispensable/ > > Where does the programming effort go? > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/18/where-does-the-programming-effort-g > o/ > > Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/12/23/why-programmers-are-not-paid-in-pro > portion-to-their-productivity/ > > Whatever happened to programming > http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/whatever-happened-to-programming/?Pro > gramming > > The plumber programmer > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/11/15/plumber-programmers/ > > Programming the last mile > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/29/programming-the-last-mile/ > > It doesn't pay to be the computer guy > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/11/22/the-computer-guy/ > > 10 Reasons It Doesn't Pay To Be "The Computer Guy" > http://www.lifereboot.com/2007/10-reasons-it-doesnt-pay-to-be-the-computer-g > uy/ > > Why there will always be programmers > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/10/27/why-there-will-always-be-programmer > s/ > ... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Nov 19 09:23:12 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 07:23:12 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Message-ID: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz zle/ Rocky From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Nov 19 09:44:49 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:44:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] EatBloat latest version?? availability --- EIasT - further review In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002101cca6d2$2bb72e70$83258b50$@comcast.net> Hi Jack, Glad you liked this so far! I had thought about putting the object names in the status bar. It seems as though if the name of the object that failed had been there, that would have given you a clue as to which object had gone bad. The line numbers come from an Access utility called M-Z Tools for VBA. I use it constantly. And it's free - with a requested donation. http://www.mztools.com/index.aspx Also - I reread my instructions and forgot to say that this exports all objects except tables. It's been my experience that table bloat and problems are best solved with Compact & Repair. Would it be possible for you to send a copy of the Demo.mdb for me to test on? I don't think I could fix it, but it helps when testing to have a 'real world' example. If you change .mdb to .pdf it will get through just fine. Thanks for your feedback, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jack and Pat Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 8:12 AM To: AccessD Group Discussion Subject: Re: [AccessD] EatBloat latest version?? availability --- EIasT - further review Dan, Further to my (off list) note from late last night, I did a little more review. I opened the EIasT.mdb with a breakpoint to allow stepping thru the code. In the problem data base, the queries and forms - up to the problem form - are all exported as text as expected. After the error, the code stops on a STOP statement, as it should. If I step through, it continues with the next procedure in code and does Import the text that was previously exported. It seems I have a corrupted Form and that its source can not be retrieved. I did not find any resolution to the "there isn't enough memory to perform this operation. Close unneeded programs and try the operation again". Seems the consensus is to rebuild the form involved. So from an EIasT view, I did use the utility against another database and all was well. It did build a directory and saved all queries, forms, reports and nodules (I don't have any macros), It did import all the text. It does Compact and Repair. And the database , original and rebuilt are available. Good stuuf. I'm impressed with your code. No wasted code; very concise. I especially like the line numbers in the vba. I take it that is based on your use of FMC utilities. The progress bars are a nice feature - seems there are lots of people trying to build these based on forums I've seen. Again, thanks for responding quickly, and thanks for the EIasT code. Perhaps it should be made available at databaseadvisors as a utility. Jack -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 19 10:01:10 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:01:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> That website is hilarious.... And that one comic about the array indices is just such a "tell"....and should be sent to Bill Gates. > http://xkcd.com/979/ > > -- > Stuart From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 19 10:58:11 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 08:58:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: These look interesting. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 7:23 AM To: 'Off Topic'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz zle/ Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 19 11:01:22 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:01:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> References: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> Message-ID: <621D83FB7CAC4F1282C179BBFDAEE3A9@creativesystemdesigns.com> That is and is going to be a classic. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 8:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Been there, done that That website is hilarious.... And that one comic about the array indices is just such a "tell"....and should be sent to Bill Gates. > http://xkcd.com/979/ > > -- > Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 19 11:01:59 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:01:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most effective when they avoid writing code..." In-Reply-To: References: <363FB114CEFE4062B345D2BA48A28EC5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: As long as the bill is paid. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 6:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most effective when they avoid writing code..." Hi Jim -- > It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on > site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and > now everything is working. Yes, that's true: "Some things you just can't explain..." http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/00/Jan/explain.html :) Have nice weekend. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 21:32 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Very interesting stuff Shamil. > > It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on > site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and > now everything is working. > > The clients like to see more concern and effort and sometimes fixed > something fast can be bad for you as a programmer. > > This of course why I like a flat rate type insurance-policy support > contracts. Sometimes you are not paid for what you do but if you do it > right, in the first place, it can go for months with little more than a > status report and an invoice. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:19 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most > effective when they avoid writing code..." > > Hi All, > > This and the other day I have read through and collected a set of links on > articles I liked to read about our profession, authored mainly by John D. > Cook (http://www.johndcook.com/blog/) and I'd like to share that links with > you for your Friday/weekend reading: > > Enjoy! > > "... no matter how often you want to play the role of a hero, there will > always be circumstances that test the limits of your ability to be one. It's > difficult to judge when helping someone means doing something immoral, and > it's even harder to admit you are unable to solve someone's problem - and > chances are, that someone will view you as incompetent because you were > unable to help them..." > > Your job is trivial. (But I couldn't do it.) > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/01/14/your-job-is-trivial-but-i-couldnt-d > o-it/ > > Why Can't Programmers.. Program? > http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html > > The buck stops with the programmer > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/19/the-buck-stops-with-the-programmer/ > > The dark side of linchpins > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/05/10/the-dark-side-of-linchpins/ > > Do you really want to be indispensable? > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/04/22/being-indispensable/ > > Where does the programming effort go? > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/18/where-does-the-programming-effort-g > o/ > > Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/12/23/why-programmers-are-not-paid-in-pro > portion-to-their-productivity/ > > Whatever happened to programming > http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/whatever-happened-to-programming/?Pro > gramming > > The plumber programmer > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/11/15/plumber-programmers/ > > Programming the last mile > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/29/programming-the-last-mile/ > > It doesn't pay to be the computer guy > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/11/22/the-computer-guy/ > > 10 Reasons It Doesn't Pay To Be "The Computer Guy" > http://www.lifereboot.com/2007/10-reasons-it-doesnt-pay-to-be-the-computer-g > uy/ > > Why there will always be programmers > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/10/27/why-there-will-always-be-programmer > s/ > ... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 19 17:30:37 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 09:30:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> Message-ID: <4EC83C1D.15974.3860F56D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> This one: http://xkcd.com/163/ ? On 19 Nov 2011 at 11:01, Mark Simms wrote: > That website is hilarious.... > And that one comic about the array indices is just such a "tell"....and > should be sent to Bill Gates. > > > http://xkcd.com/979/ > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 20 09:51:41 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 10:51:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC83C1D.15974.3860F56D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> <4EC83C1D.15974.3860F56D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <004701cca79c$4c165310$e442f930$@net> Yep. > > This one: http://xkcd.com/163/ ? From vbacreations at gmail.com Sun Nov 20 12:34:52 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:34:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook Message-ID: A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server Express was a free Sql Server engine? I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking some other softwars off my machine? I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the option to retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that there is no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing an unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for Outlook. -- From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 20 15:33:47 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:33:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named instance and correctly removed. -- Stuart On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. > > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller > also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. > > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to > have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. > > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server Express > was a free Sql Server engine? > > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would > Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking > some other softwars off my machine? > > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep > certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the option to > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that there is > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing an > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for Outlook. > > -- > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 20 16:16:40 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 22:16:40 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Thanks Shamil I am starting to do a lot of stuff with Office 365 so a few pointers is always handy. FWIIW I find it to be an excellent solution for small to medium sized businesses who either don't have the time, expertise or cash to run their own sharepoint site and exchange server. The software works pretty well, there are a few bugs but they seem to fix them fairly quickly as well. Support (at least in Oz) has been very good. Any issues on setup I have had had been quickly (and accurately) resolved. Most of the issues I have currently having are to do with me and my lack of knowledge in some areas, rather than the platform itself. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Friday, 18 November 2011 8:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) Hi All -- Does anybody practices subj? Do ECS and WAS available within Office 365 hosting plans? Here are some informational links: Office 365 List of Microsoft Office 365 Service Provider Partners http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/list-of-microsoft-office-365-service-provider-partners/ Minimum System Requirements for Office 365 http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/minimum-system-requirements-for-office-365/ Developing with SharePoint 2010 Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx Developing for SharePoint 2010 Excel Services Using Web Services or the Excel Services REST API http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff640648.aspx Open XML SDK + Office Services: Better Together http://blogs.msdn.com/b/brian_jones/archive/2010/02/26/open-xml-sdk-office-services-better-together.aspx Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 20 18:02:06 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:02:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> I am about to subscribe to Office 365....for a document management and display solution. What does this refer to : "(at least in Oz) has been very good" ? Oz ? From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 20 18:32:02 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:32:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> Message-ID: <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Oztralia - that big island just south of Papua New Guinea. -- Stuart On 20 Nov 2011 at 19:02, Mark Simms wrote: > I am about to subscribe to Office 365....for a document management and > display solution. > What does this refer to : "(at least in Oz) has been very good" ? > Oz ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 20 18:48:51 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 00:48:51 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCCE9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Thanks Stuart. Yeah, I forget how global this list is and how sometimes pithy little shortcuts get lost in translation. Sorry, my fault. Just for the record, Oz = Australia. Probably as a lot of folks call it "Oz_Trail_ya" or similar. Office 365 in Australia is support and delivered through Telstra - which is the major phone company in this country (We have others, but Telstra is the 9000 pound Gorilla of the industry). In the past their customer service has been less than stellar, but under their new CEO their focus on customer services has been greatly enhanced. In short, I had a few issues getting O365 set up correctly and they fixed them all swiftly and accurately. I was impressed. I guess I wanted to point out that your experience might be totally different as anyone based outside of Australia will have a different support setup. I would recommend O365 though, it has really made a big difference to a couple of small business I know and how they manage their documents, data and communications - already saved one of them a stack load of time and issues. Great stuff. There is value there for some folks at least. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011 11:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) Oztralia - that big island just south of Papua New Guinea. -- Stuart On 20 Nov 2011 at 19:02, Mark Simms wrote: > I am about to subscribe to Office 365....for a document management and > display solution. > What does this refer to : "(at least in Oz) has been very good" ? > Oz ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Sun Nov 20 18:53:24 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:53:24 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20111121005347.BNCI10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> And also known as the West Island of NZ :-) At 21/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >Oztralia - that big island just south of Papua New Guinea. > >-- >Stuart > >On 20 Nov 2011 at 19:02, Mark Simms wrote: > > > I am about to subscribe to Office 365....for a document management and > > display solution. > > What does this refer to : "(at least in Oz) has been very good" ? > > Oz ? From vbacreations at gmail.com Sun Nov 20 19:41:07 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:41:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: You asked "was..." it is not something I had thought to check at the time. I can check if it is still there but from the way you phrased the question Stu I get sense it would be gone now and therefore not able to be verified? If I can find BCM for O somewhere I might try installing it again to check the removal process out more thoroughly. Thanks for the idea on this. On Nov 20, 2011 4:35 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? > > If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named instance > and correctly > removed. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: > > > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. > > > > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller > > also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. > > > > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to > > have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. > > > > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server Express > > was a free Sql Server engine? > > > > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would > > Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking > > some other softwars off my machine? > > > > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep > > certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the option > to > > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that there > is > > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing > an > > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for > Outlook. > > > > -- > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Sun Nov 20 19:41:53 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:41:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: References: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: STUART NOT STU.... APOLOGIES! On Nov 20, 2011 8:41 PM, "William Benson" wrote: > You asked "was..." it is not something I had thought to check at the time. > I can check if it is still there but from the way you phrased the question > Stu I get sense it would be gone now and therefore not able to be verified? > If I can find BCM for O somewhere I might try installing it again to check > the removal process out more thoroughly. > > Thanks for the idea on this. > On Nov 20, 2011 4:35 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > wrote: > >> Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? >> >> If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named instance >> and correctly >> removed. >> >> >> -- >> Stuart >> >> On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: >> >> > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. >> > >> > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller >> > also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. >> > >> > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to >> > have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. >> > >> > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server >> Express >> > was a free Sql Server engine? >> > >> > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would >> > Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking >> > some other softwars off my machine? >> > >> > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep >> > certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the >> option to >> > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that >> there is >> > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing >> an >> > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for >> Outlook. >> > >> > -- >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 20 20:05:45 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:05:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4EC9B1F9.16375.3E155DFD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No worries, You can call me anything like want, except late for breakfast. :-) On 20 Nov 2011 at 20:41, William Benson wrote: > STUART NOT STU.... APOLOGIES! > On Nov 20, 2011 8:41 PM, "William Benson" wrote: > > > You asked "was..." it is not something I had thought to check at the time. > > I can check if it is still there but from the way you phrased the question > > Stu I get sense it would be gone now and therefore not able to be verified? > > If I can find BCM for O somewhere I might try installing it again to check > > the removal process out more thoroughly. > > > > Thanks for the idea on this. > > On Nov 20, 2011 4:35 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > > wrote: > > > >> Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? > >> > >> If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named instance > >> and correctly > >> removed. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Stuart > >> > >> On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: > >> > >> > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. > >> > > >> > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller > >> > also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. > >> > > >> > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to > >> > have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. > >> > > >> > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server > >> Express > >> > was a free Sql Server engine? > >> > > >> > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would > >> > Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking > >> > some other softwars off my machine? > >> > > >> > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep > >> > certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the > >> option to > >> > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that > >> there is > >> > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing > >> an > >> > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for > >> Outlook. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > -- > >> > AccessD mailing list > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 20 20:11:56 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 02:11:56 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: References: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCDFA@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hehehe... I bet he has been called far worse than that ;) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011 12:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook STUART NOT STU.... APOLOGIES! On Nov 20, 2011 8:41 PM, "William Benson" wrote: > You asked "was..." it is not something I had thought to check at the time. > I can check if it is still there but from the way you phrased the > question Stu I get sense it would be gone now and therefore not able to be verified? > If I can find BCM for O somewhere I might try installing it again to > check the removal process out more thoroughly. > > Thanks for the idea on this. > On Nov 20, 2011 4:35 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > wrote: > >> Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? >> >> If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named >> instance and correctly removed. >> >> >> -- >> Stuart >> >> On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: >> >> > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. >> > >> > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the >> > uninstaller also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. >> > >> > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it >> > looks to have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. >> > >> > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server >> Express >> > was a free Sql Server engine? >> > >> > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why >> > would Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I >> > was taking some other softwars off my machine? >> > >> > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to >> > keep certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had >> > the >> option to >> > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that >> there is >> > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was >> > removing >> an >> > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for >> Outlook. >> > >> > -- >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Nov 20 23:36:10 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:36:10 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Office_365_-_custom_development_using_Excel_C?= =?utf-8?q?alculation_Services_=28ECS=29_and_Word_Automation_Services_=28W?= =?utf-8?b?QVMp?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your note on your experience with Office 365. I'm also looking at it as a business opportunity which might work here in Russia "combined" with custom SharePoint and desktop solutions development and "powered" by Windows Phone 7.5+ solutions,... We will see... Thank you. -- Shamil 21 ?????? 2011, 02:18 ?? Darryl Collins : > Thanks Shamil > > I am starting to do a lot of stuff with Office 365 so a few pointers is always handy. > > FWIIW I find it to be an excellent solution for small to medium sized businesses who either don't have the time, expertise or cash to run their own sharepoint site and exchange server. The software works pretty well, there are a few bugs but they seem to fix them fairly quickly as well. Support (at least in Oz) has been very good. Any issues on setup I have had had been quickly (and accurately) resolved. > > Most of the issues I have currently having are to do with me and my lack of knowledge in some areas, rather than the platform itself. > > Cheers > Darryl > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Friday, 18 November 2011 8:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) > > Hi All -- > > Does anybody practices subj? > Do ECS and WAS available within Office 365 hosting plans? > > Here are some informational links: > > Office 365 > > List of Microsoft Office 365 Service Provider Partners http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/list-of-microsoft-office-365-service-provider-partners/ > > Minimum System Requirements for Office 365 http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/minimum-system-requirements-for-office-365/ > > Developing with SharePoint 2010 Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx > > Developing for SharePoint 2010 Excel Services Using Web Services or the Excel Services REST API http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff640648.aspx > > Open XML SDK + Office Services: Better Together http://blogs.msdn.com/b/brian_jones/archive/2010/02/26/open-xml-sdk-office-services-better-together.aspx > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 21 08:44:59 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:44:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? Message-ID: <005a01cca85c$25301ef0$6f905cd0$@net> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-microsoft-apps-that-will-cha nge-it/1156?tag=nl.e101 After reviewing this article, it appears any and all of my technical skills have little value going forward. Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 09:01:57 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:01:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? References: <005a01cca85c$25301ef0$6f905cd0$@net> Message-ID: > > Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, > Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. =====Yes it does -- just the demographics are changing. More options for big needs -- small needs, not so much. Less opportunity, yes, but valueless, no. Susan H. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 21 09:14:18 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:14:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?time_to_retire_=3F?= Message-ID: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone ranger' developers for 30 years. Rocky -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? From: "Mark Simms" Date: Mon, November 21, 2011 7:44 am To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-microsoft-apps-that-will-cha nge-it/1156?tag=nl.e101 After reviewing this article, it appears any and all of my technical skills have little value going forward. Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 10:17:43 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:17:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: IMO, this piece is targeted at IT people, not developers or database people. Fundamentally different set of skills, and as writers like to say, orthogonal. I'm not saying that some knowledge of this stuff is superfluous, but the IT people have their job and developers have their job, and only in small business is it required to wear both hats. Even in SMBs (Small to Medium-Sized Businesses, defined as total revenue more than $50M and less than $250M per year), these are separate career paths. Mom 'n' Pop outfits are way beneath this radar, IMO. How many M-n-P ops need SharePoint even, much less the other stuff. IMO almost all can get by with SQL Express (free), and have no need to upgrade. Speaking of which, I've been looking at Office365 and at first blush, this looks like a pretty cool option for me, as well as M'n'P ops. At about $6 or $7 a seat/month, it sounds just right, and eliminates all the pricey license fees. Just my IMHO, A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:14 AM, wrote: > Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those > areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out > there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone > ranger' developers for 30 years. > > Rocky > > > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 21 11:02:41 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:02:41 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <6E9F530D-751C-459B-8201-E0E1EBE36932@phulse.com> Aside from Windows 8 and maybe HyperV (I'm on the fence, I don't think virtualization is "the next big thing" anymore), I find it very hard to believe that any of these products are going to have a major impact on IT in the coming years. They all seem fairly niche and exciting to perhaps corporate CTOs. Other than that, what Arthur said. - Hans On 2011-11-21, at 8:17 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > IMO, this piece is targeted at IT people, not developers or database > people. Fundamentally different set of skills, and as writers like to > say, orthogonal. I'm not saying that some knowledge of this stuff is > superfluous, but the IT people have their job and developers have their > job, and only in small business is it required to wear both hats. Even in > SMBs (Small to Medium-Sized Businesses, defined as total revenue more than > $50M and less than $250M per year), these are separate career paths. Mom > 'n' Pop outfits are way beneath this radar, IMO. How many M-n-P ops need > SharePoint even, much less the other stuff. IMO almost all can get by with > SQL Express (free), and have no need to upgrade. Speaking of which, I've > been looking at Office365 and at first blush, this looks like a pretty cool > option for me, as well as M'n'P ops. At about $6 or $7 a seat/month, it > sounds just right, and eliminates all the pricey license fees. > > Just my IMHO, > A. > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:14 AM, wrote: > >> Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those >> areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out >> there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone >> ranger' developers for 30 years. >> >> Rocky >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 21 11:48:30 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:48:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <005a01cca85c$25301ef0$6f905cd0$@net> References: <005a01cca85c$25301ef0$6f905cd0$@net> Message-ID: <5376F6B6238B4AC39701176CE7D7705A@creativesystemdesigns.com> I must admit this is the first time in a while I have been impressed with what is coming out of the Microsoft labs for a few years. It all looks very promising. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 6:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-microsoft-apps-that-will-cha nge-it/1156?tag=nl.e101 After reviewing this article, it appears any and all of my technical skills have little value going forward. Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 12:01:20 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:01:20 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> Message-ID: All, Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). I have some dumb questions. Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and 32-bit for Deployment? Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 available? Does it fix the problem? It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? Thanks, Brad From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 21 12:06:13 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:06:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: There are many web opportunities out there. I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only going to be more demand. You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver your apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, on every device. I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the internet. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 7:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone ranger' developers for 30 years. Rocky -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? From: "Mark Simms" Date: Mon, November 21, 2011 7:44 am To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-microsoft-apps-that-will-cha nge-it/1156?tag=nl.e101 After reviewing this article, it appears any and all of my technical skills have little value going forward. Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Mon Nov 21 12:13:57 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:13:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> Message-ID: Brad, I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell you my solution. I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready to ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to an XP VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and ship from that machine to my clients. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO All, Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). I have some dumb questions. Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and 32-bit for Deployment? Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 available? Does it fix the problem? It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 12:46:20 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:46:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: There are at least two and perhaps many more possibilities lurking in your statement "I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only going to be more demand." a) Access -> ASP.NET b) Access -> Cloud c) something else Which one have you chosen, and why? Even posing the question makes me feel like an ancient, but nevertheless.... A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > There are many web opportunities out there. > > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only > going to be more demand. > > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver your > apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, on > every device. > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > > Jim > > From df.waters at comcast.net Mon Nov 21 12:53:07 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:53:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> Message-ID: <000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the ADO code to late-binding. Worked fine! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Brad, I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell you my solution. I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready to ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to an XP VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and ship from that machine to my clients. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO All, Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). I have some dumb questions. Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and 32-bit for Deployment? Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 available? Does it fix the problem? It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 14:18:46 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:18:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: <000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> <000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, and it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been edited, you never have to worry about it again. Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters wrote: > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the ADO > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Brad, > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell you > my > solution. > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready to > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to an XP > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and ship > from that machine to my clients. > > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Brad Marks" > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > All, > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > I have some dumb questions. > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > 32-bit > for Deployment? > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > available? Does it fix the problem? > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 14:58:33 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:58:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, and it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been edited, you never have to worry about it again. Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters wrote: > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the ADO > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Brad, > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell you > my > solution. > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready to > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to an XP > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and ship > from that machine to my clients. > > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Brad Marks" > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > All, > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > I have some dumb questions. > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > 32-bit > for Deployment? > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > available? Does it fix the problem? > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From dbdoug at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 15:07:37 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:07:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> <000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 15:44:22 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:44:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 21 15:57:41 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:57:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <6E9F530D-751C-459B-8201-E0E1EBE36932@phulse.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net>, , <6E9F530D-751C-459B-8201-E0E1EBE36932@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4ECAC955.10416.42589E8C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I'm with Hans and Arthur. They may change the infrastructure that developers work in, but they won't fundamentally change the need for the products of those developers or the skills those developers need. On 21 Nov 2011 at 9:02, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > > Aside from Windows 8 and maybe HyperV (I'm on the fence, I don't think > virtualization is "the next big thing" anymore), I find it very hard > to believe that any of these products are going to have a major > impact on IT in the coming years. They all seem fairly niche > and exciting to perhaps corporate CTOs. > > Other than that, what Arthur said. > > - Hans > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 21 16:01:29 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:01:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net>, Message-ID: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will be for quite a few years to come. At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before my Access skills are ready for retirement. -- Stuart On 21 Nov 2011 at 10:06, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 21 16:05:31 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:05:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net>, , Message-ID: <4ECACB2B.7003.425FCC9E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On a windows server it's: Access -> mySQL + PHP + PowerBasic CGIs Still waiting for the *nix PB compiler so that I can go the same way on all web servers. -- Stuart On 21 Nov 2011 at 13:46, Arthur Fuller wrote: > There are at least two and perhaps many more possibilities lurking in your > statement "I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and > there is only going to be more demand." > > a) Access -> ASP.NET > b) Access -> Cloud > c) something else > > Which one have you chosen, and why? Even posing the question makes me feel > like an ancient, but nevertheless.... > A. > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > There are many web opportunities out there. > > > > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only > > going to be more demand. > > > > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver your > > apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, on > > every device. > > > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > > internet. > > > > Jim > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 16:08:45 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:08:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I agree with you, Stuart, but I am also diving into C# 2010 in a serious way. There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example, but that's due to an old and perhaps obsolete bias that "Everything the db can do, the db should do." I don't like putting db logic in the front end; it sticks in this old craw; but maybe I will learn that this old adage is nearly as obsolete as I am :) A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will > be for quite a few > years to come. > > At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before > my Access skills are > ready for retirement. > > -- > Stuart > > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 16:15:06 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:15:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO - Got it working References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Doug (and others), I did some more experimenting and finally got Late Binding to work by changing line 500 to this. 500 rs.ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection Thanks again for the help. Brad ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 16:21:20 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:21:20 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 16:31:25 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:31:25 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Arthur, Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 3:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? IMO, this piece is targeted at IT people, not developers or database people. Fundamentally different set of skills, and as writers like to say, orthogonal. I'm not saying that some knowledge of this stuff is superfluous, but the IT people have their job and developers have their job, and only in small business is it required to wear both hats. Even in SMBs (Small to Medium-Sized Businesses, defined as total revenue more than $50M and less than $250M per year), these are separate career paths. Mom 'n' Pop outfits are way beneath this radar, IMO. How many M-n-P ops need SharePoint even, much less the other stuff. IMO almost all can get by with SQL Express (free), and have no need to upgrade. Speaking of which, I've been looking at Office365 and at first blush, this looks like a pretty cool option for me, as well as M'n'P ops. At about $6 or $7 a seat/month, it sounds just right, and eliminates all the pricey license fees. Just my IMHO, A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:14 AM, wrote: > Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those > areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out > there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone > ranger' developers for 30 years. > > Rocky > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 16:32:29 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:32:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Darryl, Thanks for the info and the links. I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to figure this out. We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. Sincerely, Brad PS. This problem only affects ADO, right? not DAO? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 16:33:04 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:33:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD33F@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Oh and the fix is currently scheduled for early 2012 at this stage.... So nearly a year after the problem first appeared.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 9:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 16:37:54 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:37:54 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD384@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yep, it is ADO and for all platforms (not just VBA). They have released some fixes already for other platforms, but not VBA yet. In short any code with ADO that is compiled on a W7 SP1 machine will fail if it is run on any other OS (except another W7 SP1 machine). If you get your users to recompile the code on their (non SP1) machine it will work again fine, but clearly that is not a practical solution for most users. The threads are worth a read, they are not so long and have good info on both the background of the problem, MS's surprise and dithering and possible solutions. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Darryl, Thanks for the info and the links. I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to figure this out. We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. Sincerely, Brad PS. This problem only affects ADO, right? not DAO? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 21 17:10:14 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:10:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <52E08440BAFC45D3914832F56D492301@creativesystemdesigns.com> My best current option and this is at the moment is to use ASP.Net to build a HTML interface, Adobe to build the graphics and a good server for a BE. ASP.Net for building the presentation and managing data and all the data processing at the BE. I do not like the WebPages to do anything more than manage the interface but they should manage it all. The sever BE should manage all the data and nothing else. Servers are the best options for now and in the future the Cloud...but IMHO the Cloud is not ready for primetime but that could all change in a couple of years. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? There are at least two and perhaps many more possibilities lurking in your statement "I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only going to be more demand." a) Access -> ASP.NET b) Access -> Cloud c) something else Which one have you chosen, and why? Even posing the question makes me feel like an ancient, but nevertheless.... A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > There are many web opportunities out there. > > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only > going to be more demand. > > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver your > apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, on > every device. > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > > Jim > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 21 17:22:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:22:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: You have the advantage of your environment. My environment is going internet and my poor Access skills are becoming less required every day. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will be for quite a few years to come. At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before my Access skills are ready for retirement. -- Stuart On 21 Nov 2011 at 10:06, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 17:50:43 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:50:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Since you've got experience, and since I haven't investigated all the options, am I correct in assuming that an O365 license, regardless of number of people, involves the latest (Office, SharePoint, SQL) in a participatory mechanism of some sort (e.g. per seat or something)? As proprietor of a mostly-retired company, with only me as employee, this is very appealing, and I think this could work very inexpensively for clients having say < 10 employees. Skip all the on-site licensing, pay a per-seat fee per month, lock and load. Is this precis correct? Arthur On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins < darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote: > Arthur, > > Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. > > Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an > Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version > controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync > 2010 has been a game changer for them. > > Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' > to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and > money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage > and back up). > > They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE > does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. > Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more > licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I > am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits > on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the > stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! > > Cheers > Darryl. > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 21 18:43:15 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:43:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?time_to_retire_=3F?= Message-ID: <20111121174315.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.c614d4a3a8.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> so in a pinch there's still room for one more good access developer in PNG? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? From: "Stuart McLachlan" Date: Mon, November 21, 2011 3:01 pm To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will be for quite a few years to come. At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before my Access skills are ready for retirement. -- Stuart On 21 Nov 2011 at 10:06, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 19:08:39 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 01:08:39 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD460@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yep, that is pretty much how it works. You can download a trial version which free and is good for 30 days - the trial version includes 10 licenses, after 30 days you get an email asking if you want to continue the service. If you do then you only pay for as many licenses as you want / need. You can add more or less over time and they just adjust your monthly bill. There was a bit of stuffing around getting the site setup and operational initially (at least for Australia). You need to have a registered business with ABN (sort of a business ID number and an existing website) Your requirements may differ as you are in a different part of the world. I needed to play around with DNS settings on with our existing ISP setup page - and also do some manual configs to Lync and the outlook desktop client to make it work. Most of this stuff I found out via Google and the online help forums. Once you know where to look it is all fairly painless - of course I say this now with 20/20 hindsight ;) That said, you don't need to use an outlook desktop client if you don't want, you can do it all in the browser if you want. The exchange side of things is seriously good. Having the ability to instantly update all the members of your team and share calendars painlessly is a huge jump for a lot of these folks. It is ideal for small working teams of people. One business I set this up for is 7 people and they often work remotely. Having the ability to share calendars, use the 'presence' detection and Lync to meet up and share tools and desktops has been really useful for them. Much better than trying to get one of them to assist the other one over the phone alone. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 10:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? Since you've got experience, and since I haven't investigated all the options, am I correct in assuming that an O365 license, regardless of number of people, involves the latest (Office, SharePoint, SQL) in a participatory mechanism of some sort (e.g. per seat or something)? As proprietor of a mostly-retired company, with only me as employee, this is very appealing, and I think this could work very inexpensively for clients having say < 10 employees. Skip all the on-site licensing, pay a per-seat fee per month, lock and load. Is this precis correct? Arthur On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins < darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote: > Arthur, > > Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. > > Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an > Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version > controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like > Lync > 2010 has been a game changer for them. > > Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' > to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of > time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus > secure docs storage and back up). > > They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower > (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. > Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more > licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I > am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are > limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but > for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! > > Cheers > Darryl. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 21 20:13:01 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:13:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> True, but as we had mentioned in the past, where is that "silver bullet" to Web Development ? Still is and always has been a messy, sausage-making-like ordeal to create web apps. > There are many web opportunities out there. > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is > only > going to be more demand. > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver > your > apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, > on > every device. > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. From john at winhaven.net Mon Nov 21 20:44:50 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:44:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> Message-ID: <035501cca8c0$b48dc980$1da95c80$@winhaven.net> LOL - great description of it! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 8:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? True, but as we had mentioned in the past, where is that "silver bullet" to Web Development ? Still is and always has been a messy, sausage-making-like ordeal to create web apps. > There are many web opportunities out there. > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is > only going to be more demand. > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver > your apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of > companies, on every device. > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 21 21:06:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:06:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). LOL. that's the understatement of the year. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/21/2011 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Arthur, > > Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. > > Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. > > Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). > > They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! > > Cheers > Darryl. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 21:32:33 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 03:32:33 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD5C3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Heh, for sure. But given that a lot of small businesses use Excel sheets as their principal database for everything - moving that data into to sharepoint lists usually is fairly simple and brings a lot more data integrity than keeping 5 different versions of Excel as their 'master' database, or I have seen many times "Budget_Final_Final_FinalV2 (Dave's version).xls" - ... Oh the horror, the horror.... Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 2:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). LOL. that's the understatement of the year. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/21/2011 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Arthur, > > Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. > > Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. > > Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). > > They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! > > Cheers > Darryl. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 21 21:35:15 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:35:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> Message-ID: <36945057-B595-495B-8FB8-65EAA25991B7@phulse.com> You should consider HTML5. It's been slow coming but it's starting to pick up some real steam now. Even Microsoft is going head on with HTML5. Just attended a Microsoft talk on responsive web design. It really opened my eyes in terms of that we are reaching a tipping point where hype meets reality (and business). Also, for all you microsofties interested in this, check out Microsofts tool Webmatrix. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-21, at 6:13 PM, "Mark Simms" wrote: > True, but as we had mentioned in the past, where is that "silver bullet" to > Web Development ? > Still is and always has been a messy, sausage-making-like ordeal to create > web apps. > >> There are many web opportunities out there. >> I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is >> only >> going to be more demand. >> You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver >> your >> apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, >> on >> every device. >> I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the >> internet. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 21 22:11:50 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:11:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <36945057-B595-495B-8FB8-65EAA25991B7@phulse.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> <36945057-B595-495B-8FB8-65EAA25991B7@phulse.com> Message-ID: <000001cca8cc$dc73e7c0$955bb740$@net> Webmatrix and Expression Web were always on my radar. I'll bet BOTH are gonna change dramatically now with HTML-5. There may be hope yet !!! RAD for the web....Bring it on. > You should consider HTML5. It's been slow coming but it's starting to > pick up some real steam now. Even Microsoft is going head on with > HTML5. Just attended a Microsoft talk on responsive web design. It > really opened my eyes in terms of that we are reaching a tipping point > where hype meets reality (and business). > > Also, for all you microsofties interested in this, check out Microsofts > tool Webmatrix. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 21 22:16:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:16:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ECB2237.4070208@colbyconsulting.com> >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse That was the understatement of the year. No idea about the brilliance part. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/21/2011 10:06 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff > small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > LOL. that's the understatement of the year. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/21/2011 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: >> Arthur, >> >> Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. >> >> Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook >> and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication >> tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. >> >> Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to >> understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier >> comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). >> >> They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better >> though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, >> all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I >> am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists >> as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). >> >> And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 21 22:17:42 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:17:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD5C3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD5C3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ECB2266.4060407@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, I understand completely. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/21/2011 10:32 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Heh, for sure. But given that a lot of small businesses use Excel sheets as their principal database for everything - moving that data into to sharepoint lists usually is fairly simple and brings a lot more data integrity than keeping 5 different versions of Excel as their 'master' database, or I have seen many times "Budget_Final_Final_FinalV2 (Dave's version).xls" - ... Oh the horror, the horror.... > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 2:06 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? > > >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > LOL. that's the understatement of the year. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/21/2011 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: >> Arthur, >> >> Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. >> >> Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. >> >> Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). >> >> They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). >> >> And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 22 02:55:17 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:55:17 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?time_to_retire_=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Hi Arthur -- > There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example... Do you mean LINQ in general or just LINQ for SQL or ADO.NET EF LINQ? LINQ in general - I mean using it in your C#/VB.NET coding - is a very powerful development tool/programming language concept. LINQ is a "green light" for full scale functional programming (FP) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_programming) within general purpose programming language as C#/VB.NET are. Have a look: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericwhite/archive/2006/10/04/fp-tutorial.aspx LINQ is very close to "ordinary SQL" - in fact they both have common roots in Propositional Calculus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_calculus) , Set Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory), Relational Algebra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_algebra) etc. One can treat LINQ as OOSQL ("first generation") come true. Using LINQ may change your (and mine) "old habits" of practicing mainly "data centric" application development - read more about "Model First" approach here: http://www.devart.com/entitydeveloper/model-first.html http://ianhammondcooper.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/being-ignorant-with-linq-to-sql/ All in all "LINQ (to SQL)" and FP seems to be very good tools for the one considering to retire but still keeping doing custom development as the more one gets familiar with that tools the more short, the more streamlined and effective their programming would become, the least support costs would be "tied" to that coding - and so one can keep competitive for a long time :) "Ordinary" programming has usually a lot of routine (plumbing) work and LINQ and FP allow to minimize that work by making your coding working on higher levels of abstraction and "getting things done" quicker... Parallel LINQ (PLINQ) and FP are also the base for "automagic scaling" of your programming solutions as pure functional coding can be automatically scheduled to be executed in parallel on many processor cores or - in the future(?) even - computer systems or all over "computing clouds" and (P)LINQ expressions can be also interpreted in parallel, and that "parallelization" will be done by .NET Dynamic Language Runtime (DLR) automatically... Recap: LINQ and FP alone would let to keep one's brain cells active solving programming tasks "cool way", or I can even say "lazy but cool way" meaning "lazy evaluation" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy_evaluation) - the core of LINQ expressions evaluation strategy implemented in .NET DLR... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Consider also using OpenXML (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML) and Open XML SDK 2.0 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb448854.aspx, http://openxmldeveloper.org/) as a good substitute for many tasks usually done using MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint Automation, as well as Excel Calculation Services http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepoint-server-help/introduction-to-excel-services-and-excel-web-access-HA010105476.aspx and Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx which should be available for Office 365 developers... 22 ?????? 2011, 02:10 ?? Arthur Fuller : > I agree with you, Stuart, but I am also diving into C# 2010 in a serious > way. There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example, but that's due to an > old and perhaps obsolete bias that "Everything the db can do, the db should > do." I don't like putting db logic in the front end; it sticks in this old > craw; but maybe I will learn that this old adage is nearly as obsolete as I > am :) > > A. > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will > > be for quite a few > > years to come. > > > > At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before > > my Access skills are > > ready for retirement. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Tue Nov 22 07:36:04 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:36:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email1 8.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <4ECBA544.7020800@torchlake.com> Shamil, Thank you for all this good information. I'm not quite ready to dig into it all, but I will be one of these days, and I'm glad to have these resources. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/22/2011 3:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Arthur -- > >> There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example... > Do you mean LINQ in general or just LINQ for SQL or ADO.NET EF LINQ? > > LINQ in general - I mean using it in your C#/VB.NET coding - is a very powerful development tool/programming language concept. > LINQ is a "green light" for full scale functional programming (FP) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_programming) within general purpose programming language as C#/VB.NET are. > Have a look: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericwhite/archive/2006/10/04/fp-tutorial.aspx > > LINQ is very close to "ordinary SQL" - in fact they both have common roots in Propositional Calculus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_calculus) , Set Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory), Relational Algebra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_algebra) etc. One can treat LINQ as OOSQL ("first generation") come true. > > Using LINQ may change your (and mine) "old habits" of practicing mainly "data centric" application development - read more about "Model First" approach here: > > http://www.devart.com/entitydeveloper/model-first.html > > http://ianhammondcooper.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/being-ignorant-with-linq-to-sql/ > > All in all "LINQ (to SQL)" and FP seems to be very good tools for the one considering to retire but still keeping doing custom development as the more one gets familiar with that tools the more short, the more streamlined and effective their programming would become, the least support costs would be "tied" to that coding - and so one can keep competitive for a long time :) > > "Ordinary" programming has usually a lot of routine (plumbing) work and LINQ and FP allow to minimize that work by making your coding working on higher levels of abstraction and "getting things done" quicker... > > Parallel LINQ (PLINQ) and FP are also the base for "automagic scaling" of your programming solutions as pure functional coding can be automatically scheduled to be executed in parallel on many processor cores or - in the future(?) even - computer systems or all over "computing clouds" and (P)LINQ expressions can be also interpreted in parallel, and that "parallelization" will be done by .NET Dynamic Language Runtime (DLR) automatically... > > Recap: LINQ and FP alone would let to keep one's brain cells active solving programming tasks "cool way", or I can even say "lazy but cool way" meaning "lazy evaluation" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy_evaluation) - the core of LINQ expressions evaluation strategy implemented in .NET DLR... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > P.S. Consider also using OpenXML (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML) and Open XML SDK 2.0 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb448854.aspx, http://openxmldeveloper.org/) as a good substitute for many tasks usually done using MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint Automation, as well as > > Excel Calculation Services > http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepoint-server-help/introduction-to-excel-services-and-excel-web-access-HA010105476.aspx > > and > > Word Automation Services > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx > > which should be available for Office 365 developers... > > 22 ?????? 2011, 02:10 ?? Arthur Fuller: >> I agree with you, Stuart, but I am also diving into C# 2010 in a serious >> way. There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example, but that's due to an >> old and perhaps obsolete bias that "Everything the db can do, the db should >> do." I don't like putting db logic in the front end; it sticks in this old >> craw; but maybe I will learn that this old adage is nearly as obsolete as I >> am :) >> >> A. >> >> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Stuart McLachlanwrote: >> >>> Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will >>> be for quite a few >>> years to come. >>> >>> At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before >>> my Access skills are >>> ready for retirement. >>> >>> -- >>> Stuart >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From edzedz at comcast.net Tue Nov 22 09:33:38 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:33:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: W7 SP1 breaking ADO Message-ID: <005a01cca92c$1bd4fc60$5bdea8c0@edz1> There are also problems with DAO and large query statements. Along with the AppHangB1 error have been getting AppCrash errors for VBA programming that works fine on W2K and XP OS systems. The MSFT social media seems unable to find a solution. ================================================================ Description: A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows. Problem signature: Problem Event Name: AppHangB1 Application Name: MSACCESS.EXE Application Version: 11.0.8166.0 Application Timestamp: 46437912 Hang Signature: 8308 Hang Type: 0 OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48 Locale ID: 1033 Additional Hang Signature 1: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 2: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 3: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Additional Hang Signature 4: 8308 Additional Hang Signature 5: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 6: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 7: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Read our privacy statement online: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=104288&clcid=0x0409 If the online privacy statement is not available, please read our privacy statement offline: C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt ================================================================ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Yep, it is ADO and for all platforms (not just VBA). They have released some fixes already for other platforms, but not VBA yet. In short any code with ADO that is compiled on a W7 SP1 machine will fail if it is run on any other OS (except another W7 SP1 machine). If you get your users to recompile the code on their (non SP1) machine it will work again fine, but clearly that is not a practical solution for most users. The threads are worth a read, they are not so long and have good info on both the background of the problem, MS's surprise and dithering and possible solutions. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Darryl, Thanks for the info and the links. I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to figure this out. We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. Sincerely, Brad PS. This problem only affects ADO, right? not DAO? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 09:38:56 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:38:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: <005a01cca92c$1bd4fc60$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <005a01cca92c$1bd4fc60$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: It seems that the only fix is to remove SP1. A. On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > There are also problems with DAO and large query statements. > > Along with the AppHangB1 error have been getting AppCrash errors > for VBA programming that works fine on W2K and XP OS systems. > I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to > figure this out. > > We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the > short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. > > From edzedz at comcast.net Tue Nov 22 10:23:27 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:23:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DAO breaking as well in W7 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001cca933$1116b9b0$5bdea8c0@edz1> There are also problems with DAO and large query statements. Along with the AppHangB1 error have been getting AppCrash errors for VBA programming that works fine on W2K and XP OS systems. The MSFT social media seems unable to find a solution. ================================================================ Description: A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows. Problem signature: Problem Event Name: AppHangB1 Application Name: MSACCESS.EXE Application Version: 11.0.8166.0 Application Timestamp: 46437912 Hang Signature: 8308 Hang Type: 0 OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48 Locale ID: 1033 Additional Hang Signature 1: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 2: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 3: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Additional Hang Signature 4: 8308 Additional Hang Signature 5: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 6: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 7: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Read our privacy statement online: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=104288&clcid=0x0409 If the online privacy statement is not available, please read our privacy statement offline: C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt ================================================================ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Darryl, Thanks for the info and the links. I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to figure this out. We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. Sincerely, Brad PS. This problem only affects ADO, right? not DAO? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Tue Nov 22 10:50:56 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:50:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4ECBD2F0.8000404@torchlake.com> Me too! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/18/2011 6:43 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I know the feeling so well: > > http://xkcd.com/979/ > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Nov 22 10:51:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:51:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <76C0FC092A534DE38B2FE72A9B7753DB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: This collection of links is very interesting but I will have to put it aside for now, as it would be easy to get lost for days, in the subject. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? Hi Arthur -- > There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example... Do you mean LINQ in general or just LINQ for SQL or ADO.NET EF LINQ? LINQ in general - I mean using it in your C#/VB.NET coding - is a very powerful development tool/programming language concept. LINQ is a "green light" for full scale functional programming (FP) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_programming) within general purpose programming language as C#/VB.NET are. Have a look: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericwhite/archive/2006/10/04/fp-tutorial.aspx LINQ is very close to "ordinary SQL" - in fact they both have common roots in Propositional Calculus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_calculus) , Set Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory), Relational Algebra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_algebra) etc. One can treat LINQ as OOSQL ("first generation") come true. Using LINQ may change your (and mine) "old habits" of practicing mainly "data centric" application development - read more about "Model First" approach here: http://www.devart.com/entitydeveloper/model-first.html http://ianhammondcooper.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/being-ignorant-with-linq-to -sql/ All in all "LINQ (to SQL)" and FP seems to be very good tools for the one considering to retire but still keeping doing custom development as the more one gets familiar with that tools the more short, the more streamlined and effective their programming would become, the least support costs would be "tied" to that coding - and so one can keep competitive for a long time :) "Ordinary" programming has usually a lot of routine (plumbing) work and LINQ and FP allow to minimize that work by making your coding working on higher levels of abstraction and "getting things done" quicker... Parallel LINQ (PLINQ) and FP are also the base for "automagic scaling" of your programming solutions as pure functional coding can be automatically scheduled to be executed in parallel on many processor cores or - in the future(?) even - computer systems or all over "computing clouds" and (P)LINQ expressions can be also interpreted in parallel, and that "parallelization" will be done by .NET Dynamic Language Runtime (DLR) automatically... Recap: LINQ and FP alone would let to keep one's brain cells active solving programming tasks "cool way", or I can even say "lazy but cool way" meaning "lazy evaluation" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy_evaluation) - the core of LINQ expressions evaluation strategy implemented in .NET DLR... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Consider also using OpenXML (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML) and Open XML SDK 2.0 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb448854.aspx, http://openxmldeveloper.org/) as a good substitute for many tasks usually done using MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint Automation, as well as Excel Calculation Services http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepoint-server-help/introduction-to-exc el-services-and-excel-web-access-HA010105476.aspx and Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx which should be available for Office 365 developers... 22 ?????? 2011, 02:10 ?? Arthur Fuller : > I agree with you, Stuart, but I am also diving into C# 2010 in a serious > way. There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example, but that's due to an > old and perhaps obsolete bias that "Everything the db can do, the db should > do." I don't like putting db logic in the front end; it sticks in this old > craw; but maybe I will learn that this old adage is nearly as obsolete as I > am :) > > A. > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will > > be for quite a few > > years to come. > > > > At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before > > my Access skills are > > ready for retirement. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeff.developer at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 10:57:33 2011 From: jeff.developer at gmail.com (Jeff B) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:57:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives Message-ID: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com> Hello Listers! Quick question, I went to look through the archives to see if there was anything about working with Access and QuickBooks, but it seems that all of our archives are unavailable? Do we have any archives available right now? Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Nov 22 12:03:41 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:03:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives In-Reply-To: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com> References: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <023601cca941$112be700$3383b500$@winhaven.net> Because of some technical issues, we're re-doing the archives right now. Its taking a while. Please be patient. Meanwhile maybe you could ask the list your particular questions. I know that the Quickbooks API has changed considerably over the last few years. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff B Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:58 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Archives Hello Listers! Quick question, I went to look through the archives to see if there was anything about working with Access and QuickBooks, but it seems that all of our archives are unavailable? Do we have any archives available right now? Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeff.developer at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 12:38:52 2011 From: jeff.developer at gmail.com (Jeff B) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:38:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives In-Reply-To: <023601cca941$112be700$3383b500$@winhaven.net> References: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com> <023601cca941$112be700$3383b500$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <006701cca945$fbf9c730$f3ed5590$@gmail.com> Thanks John. I thought we had had a discussion about QuickBooks, that?s why I was looking for the archives. I think I found my solution! It seems that QuickBooks now offers a read only ODBC driver as part of its product. If you look a little farther, they share a link for QODBC read/write driver. The read/write is available through FLEXquarters.com for a nominal fee. Seeing as I have been using ODBC with Access and SQL Server, it seems like the natural way to go. So, I have found my solution! Thanks again! Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Archives Because of some technical issues, we're re-doing the archives right now. Its taking a while. Please be patient. Meanwhile maybe you could ask the list your particular questions. I know that the Quickbooks API has changed considerably over the last few years. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff B Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:58 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Archives Hello Listers! Quick question, I went to look through the archives to see if there was anything about working with Access and QuickBooks, but it seems that all of our archives are unavailable? Do we have any archives available right now? Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 22 14:35:58 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:35:58 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties Message-ID: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to their server using the Data Link Properties: If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I do not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these and the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not one of these. My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. In the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. Any suggestions? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 14:57:24 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:57:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login behaves the same there? Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the database in question? It does sound like permissions to me. D On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson wrote: > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to > their server using the Data Link Properties: > > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in the > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the database I > want. > > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I do > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these and > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not one > of these. > > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. In > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. > > Any suggestions? > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 22 15:39:54 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:39:54 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login >behaves the same there? Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this what you mean? >Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the >database in question? I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't seem to have helped. >It does sound like permissions to me. > >D > >On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to > > their server using the Data Link Properties: > > > > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in the > > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the database I > > want. > > > > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the > > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I do > > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these and > > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not one > > of these. > > > > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I > > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role > > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. In > > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have > > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database > > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 22 16:32:13 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:32:13 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] FW: W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <005a01cca92c$1bd4fc60$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DDD32@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Pretty much at this stage for anyone using VBA, that is it and that is what I did. Of course for some folks that is not an option. Two examples I can think of are 1: folks on corporate networks who get the OS updates pushed out to them, and folks who recently purchased W7 that has SP1 already built in. I got lucky, the rollback to W7 Release version worked and all was good again. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, 23 November 2011 2:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: W7 SP1 breaking ADO It seems that the only fix is to remove SP1. A. On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > There are also problems with DAO and large query statements. > > Along with the AppHangB1 error have been getting AppCrash errors for > VBA programming that works fine on W2K and XP OS systems. > I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to > figure this out. > > We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the > short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 16:43:40 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:43:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? >From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I can click on the Office button. >From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server and then any database on that chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing everything logged in as the troubled user? David On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson wrote: > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login >> behaves the same there? >> > > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this > what you mean? > > > > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the >> database in question? >> > > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't > seem to have helped. > > > It does sound like permissions to me. >> >> D >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson > >wrote: >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: >> > >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in >> the >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the >> database I >> > want. >> > >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I >> do >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these >> and >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not >> one >> > of these. >> > >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. >> In >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. >> > >> > Any suggestions? >> > >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > David Emerson >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 22 18:30:09 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:30:09 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I can >click on the Office button. > From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server and >then any database on that >chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing >everything logged in as the troubled user? Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. >David > > >On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login > >> behaves the same there? > >> > > > > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view > > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this > > what you mean? > > > > > > > > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the > >> database in question? > >> > > > > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't > > seem to have helped. > > > > > > It does sound like permissions to me. > >> > >> D > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson >> >wrote: > >> > >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to > >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > >> > > >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in > >> the > >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the > >> database I > >> > want. > >> > > >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the > >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I > >> do > >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these > >> and > >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not > >> one > >> > of these. > >> > > >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I > >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role > >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. > >> In > >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have > >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database > >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. > >> > > >> > Any suggestions? > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > > >> > David Emerson > >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> > Wellington, New Zealand From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 22 21:05:24 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:05:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hyper-V VM oddness Message-ID: <4ECC62F4.7050201@colbyconsulting.com> I decided to try moving my VMs to Azul server, my "big" server. I figured with 16 cores and 64 gigs it could handle the load. The sole purpose of one of the VMs is to host a third party application. When this app is running the VM says that the single core I assign to it is pegged, 100% utilization. However none of the host machine cores shows any significant usage, and the total server usage bounces between 0 and 1%. So I'm wondering what the heck is going on? The application on the dedicated VM server was processing about 8-9 million records per hour on a 3.5 GHz AMD quad core, and on that host machine one of the cores would appear to be maxed out and the server would say 25% usage. On the mongo server the CPUs are 2 GHz 8 core and no core says it is busy and I'm only getting about 4 million records / hour. I expected one core to max and the total to say 1/16th total usage. Any ideas why this VM says it is using 100% of its virtual CPU but the host server says it is not busy at all? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 23 10:35:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:35:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL Message-ID: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> I run three VMs pretty much 24/7 here at my home office, one which I call vmDev which is my development machine, another is my Accuzip third party software vm and one final machine runs SQL Server Express for Access clients coming in over the internet. I had a dedicated server for VMs which I actually just upgraded to a new motherboard, DDR3 ram etc in preparation for the new AM3+ bulldozer processor. Given the weak performance of the new processor I am hanging out waiting for the next rev / price drops before taking that plunge. what I did do however is move all three of those VMs off onto my 16 core SQL Server machine. The only VM which truly needs much horsepower is the Accuzip VM and my performance dropped by half when I did the move. Whereas I was getting about 8-9 million records / hour on the dedicated VM Server, on Azul SQL Server machine I am lucky to get 4.5 million per hour. The difference is mostly just the core speed. The Magney-Cours server chips that I could afford run at 2.0 ghz and have ddr3 1300 memory (registered and ECC), whereas the new motherboard has DDR 1600 memory and a quad core Phenom lightly overclocked to 3.3 ghz. The additional clock speed and memory speed apparently makes for significant additional horsepower. Anyway, I have decided to take the speed hit on the Accuzip VM in order to clean off what was my dedicated VM server and use that for a MySQL machine. As servers go this machine is somewhat wimpy with 4 cores and 16 gigs of memory but for learning MySQL it should suffice. There has been a bit of interest expressed in MySQL, with some list members already using it and others trying to learn it. I count myself in the trying to learn it crowd. My intention is to go with MariaDB. Since I have Hyper-V running on this machine I am thinking about running mariaDB itself on a VM which would allow me to move the VM should I decide to keep it. I have to say I am not having a lot of luck getting a Linux distro running on a Hyper-V VM, but if I can make that happen that would be my preference. If anyone out there has experience getting a linux distro running in a Hyper-V VM running MariaDB let me know. I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 11:28:19 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:28:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? Still sounds like privileges to me. On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson wrote: > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? >> > > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > > > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I can >> click on the Office button. >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server and >> then any database on that >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing >> everything logged in as the troubled user? >> > > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > > > David >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson >> wrote: >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login >> >> behaves the same there? >> >> >> > >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this >> > what you mean? >> > >> > >> > >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the >> >> database in question? >> >> >> > >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't >> > seem to have helped. >> > >> > >> > It does sound like permissions to me. >> >> >> >> D >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson > >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link >> to >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: >> >> > >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in >> >> the >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the >> >> database I >> >> > want. >> >> > >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. >> I >> >> do >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to >> these >> >> and >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is >> not >> >> one >> >> > of these. >> >> > >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. >> >> In >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. >> >> > >> >> > Any suggestions? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Regards >> >> > >> >> > David Emerson >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Nov 23 14:37:48 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:37:48 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? > >Still sounds like privileges to me. > > > >On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? > >> > > > > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > > > > > > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I can > >> click on the Office button. > >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server and > >> then any database on that > >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing > >> everything logged in as the troubled user? > >> > > > > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > > > > > > David > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson > >> wrote: > >> > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> > > >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login > >> >> behaves the same there? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view > >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this > >> > what you mean? > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the > >> >> database in question? > >> >> > >> > > >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't > >> > seem to have helped. > >> > > >> > > >> > It does sound like permissions to me. > >> >> > >> >> D > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson >> >> >wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link > >> to > >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > >> >> > > >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in > >> >> the > >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the > >> >> database I > >> >> > want. > >> >> > > >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the > >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. > >> I > >> >> do > >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to > >> these > >> >> and > >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is > >> not > >> >> one > >> >> > of these. > >> >> > > >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I > >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role > >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. > >> >> In > >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have > >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database > >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. > >> >> > > >> >> > Any suggestions? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Regards > >> >> > > >> >> > David Emerson > >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 14:59:11 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:59:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: >From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer I can choose Server Type : Database Engine ServerName: YourServerName Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to Windows Authentication) Login: limitedUser password: xxxxx It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know he doesn't have rights to, it will give me an error. If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson wrote: > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. > > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? >> >> Still sounds like privileges to me. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson >> wrote: >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? >> >> >> > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. >> > >> > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I >> can >> >> click on the Office button. >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server >> and >> >> then any database on that >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? >> >> >> > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. >> > >> > >> > David >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your >> login >> >> >> behaves the same there? >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can >> view >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is >> this >> >> > what you mean? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the >> >> >> database in question? >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. >> Doesn't >> >> > seem to have helped. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. >> >> >> >> >> >> D >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson < >> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz >> >> >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then >> link >> >> to >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the >> databases in >> >> >> the >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the >> >> >> database I >> >> >> > want. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select >> the >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and >> tempdb. >> >> I >> >> >> do >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to >> >> these >> >> >> and >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is >> >> not >> >> >> one >> >> >> > of these. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL >> Server. I >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database >> role >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User >> Mapping. >> >> >> In >> >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I >> have >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the >> database >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" >> dropdown. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Regards >> >> >> > >> >> >> > David Emerson >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com> databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 23 15:29:07 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 07:29:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, Message-ID: <4ECD65A3.3640.4C8B3A43@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> IN SSMS 2005, while logged in as an administrator: Go to ServerName - Security - Logins and select the login in question. Right Click and select Properties Under "Select a Page", select User Mapping Make sure the databases that you want the Login to be able to access are ticked in the top right hand panel and the correct roles are set in the bottom panel. -- Stuart On 23 Nov 2011 at 12:59, David McAfee wrote: > From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer > > I can choose > Server Type : Database Engine > ServerName: YourServerName > Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to > Windows Authentication) > Login: limitedUser > password: xxxxx > > It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know he doesn't > have rights to, it will give me an error. > > If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. > > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows > > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as > > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. > > > > > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? > >> > >> Still sounds like privileges to me. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson > >> wrote: > >> > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> > > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > >> > > >> > > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I > >> can > >> >> click on the Office button. > >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server > >> and > >> >> then any database on that > >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing > >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > >> > > >> > > >> > David > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your > >> login > >> >> >> behaves the same there? > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can > >> view > >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is > >> this > >> >> > what you mean? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the > >> >> >> database in question? > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. > >> Doesn't > >> >> > seem to have helped. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> D > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson < > >> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz > >> >> >> >wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then > >> link > >> >> to > >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the > >> databases in > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the > >> >> >> database I > >> >> >> > want. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select > >> the > >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and > >> tempdb. > >> >> I > >> >> >> do > >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to > >> >> these > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is > >> >> not > >> >> >> one > >> >> >> > of these. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL > >> Server. I > >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database > >> role > >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User > >> Mapping. > >> >> >> In > >> >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I > >> have > >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the > >> database > >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" > >> dropdown. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Regards > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > David Emerson > >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand > >> >> > >> > > >> > -- > >> > AccessD mailing list > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> > >> > > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com >> databaseadvisors.com > > >> > >> > > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Nov 23 15:38:08 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:38:08 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111123213842.RXMI28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I tried that and couldn't even log in as any user. There seems to be other problems with the profile the Administrator set up for me so I will wait until he gets them sorted out before trying again. Thanks for your suggestions. David At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer > >I can choose > Server Type : Database Engine > ServerName: YourServerName > Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to >Windows Authentication) > Login: limitedUser > password: xxxxx > >It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know he doesn't >have rights to, it will give me an error. > >If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. > > > > >On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows > > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as > > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. > > > > > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? > >> > >> Still sounds like privileges to me. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson > >> wrote: > >> > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> > > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > >> > > >> > > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the > moment, I can > >> >> click on the Office button. > >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose > any server and > >> >> then any database on that > >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing > >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > >> > > >> > > >> > David > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see > if your login > >> >> >> behaves the same there? > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 > R2). I can view > >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings > etc. Is this > >> >> > what you mean? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied > access to the database in question? > >> >> > > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't > >> >> > seem to have helped. > >> >> > > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> D > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson > wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's > network then link to > >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the > databases in the > >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect > to the database I > >> >> >> > want. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in > the "Select the > >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb > and tempdb. I do > >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can > link to these and > >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database > I want is not one > >> >> >> > of these. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in > SQL Server. I > >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all > database role > >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in > User Mapping. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > In the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all > rolls. Status shows I have > >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still > the database > >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the > Server" dropdown. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Regards > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > David Emerson > >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Nov 23 15:40:39 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:40:39 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <4ECD65A3.3640.4C8B3A43@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4ECD65A3.3640.4C8B3A43@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20111123214110.HTDC18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Done that to no avail. Will wait until the administrator can sort out my profile issues before wasting more time on this problem. David At 24/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >IN SSMS 2005, while logged in as an administrator: > >Go to ServerName - Security - Logins and select the login in question. >Right Click and select Properties >Under "Select a Page", select User Mapping >Make sure the databases that you want the Login to be able to >access are ticked in the top >right hand panel and the correct roles are set in the bottom panel. > >-- >Stuart > >On 23 Nov 2011 at 12:59, David McAfee wrote: > > > From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer > > > > I can choose > > Server Type : Database Engine > > ServerName: YourServerName > > Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to > > Windows Authentication) > > Login: limitedUser > > password: xxxxx > > > > It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know he doesn't > > have rights to, it will give me an error. > > > > If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson > wrote: > > > > > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows > > > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as > > > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. > > > > > > > > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > > > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? > > >> > > >> Still sounds like privileges to me. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > > >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at > the moment, I > > >> can > > >> >> click on the Office button. > > >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server > > >> and > > >> >> then any database on that > > >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you > are not seeing > > >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > > >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > > >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > David > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson > > >> >> wrote: > > >> >> > > >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > >> >> > > > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your > > >> login > > >> >> >> behaves the same there? > > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can > > >> view > > >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is > > >> this > > >> >> > what you mean? > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied > access to the > > >> >> >> database in question? > > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. > > >> Doesn't > > >> >> > seem to have helped. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> D > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson < > > >> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz > > >> >> >> >wrote: > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then > > >> link > > >> >> to > > >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the > > >> databases in > > >> >> >> the > > >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the > > >> >> >> database I > > >> >> >> > want. > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in > the "Select > > >> the > > >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and > > >> tempdb. > > >> >> I > > >> >> >> do > > >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to > > >> >> these > > >> >> >> and > > >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the > database I want is > > >> >> not > > >> >> >> one > > >> >> >> > of these. > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL > > >> Server. I > > >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database > > >> role > > >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User > > >> Mapping. > > >> >> >> In > > >> >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I > > >> have > > >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the > > >> database > > >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" > > >> dropdown. > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Regards > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > David Emerson > > >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > > >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > AccessD mailing list > > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com > >> databaseadvisors.com > > > >> > > >> > > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul_lifopro at cox.net Wed Nov 23 15:45:55 2011 From: paul_lifopro at cox.net (paul_lifopro) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:45:55 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives In-Reply-To: <006701cca945$fbf9c730$f3ed5590$@gmail.com> References: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com><023601cca941$112be700$3383b500$@winhaven.net> <006701cca945$fbf9c730$f3ed5590$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <032401ccaa29$47ccd8d0$6d01a8c0@lplaptop2> Jeff, I use the read only QODBC driver you mentioned. The only weird thing about it is that I have found is that the Quickbooks system has to be open when you hit the tables with Access. At least that is what I found out. Otherwise it gives you an error. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Jeff B [mailto:jeff.developer at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Archives Thanks John. I thought we had had a discussion about QuickBooks, that?s why I was looking for the archives. I think I found my solution! It seems that QuickBooks now offers a read only ODBC driver as part of its product. If you look a little farther, they share a link for QODBC read/write driver. The read/write is available through FLEXquarters.com for a nominal fee. Seeing as I have been using ODBC with Access and SQL Server, it seems like the natural way to go. So, I have found my solution! Thanks again! Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Archives Because of some technical issues, we're re-doing the archives right now. Its taking a while. Please be patient. Meanwhile maybe you could ask the list your particular questions. I know that the Quickbooks API has changed considerably over the last few years. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff B Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:58 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Archives Hello Listers! Quick question, I went to look through the archives to see if there was anything about working with Access and QuickBooks, but it seems that all of our archives are unavailable? Do we have any archives available right now? Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 23 16:23:14 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:23:14 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> "I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject." Count me as 'interested'. Your posts are usually highly educational John and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share your experiences with the rest of us. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 3:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL I run three VMs pretty much 24/7 here at my home office, one which I call vmDev which is my development machine, another is my Accuzip third party software vm and one final machine runs SQL Server Express for Access clients coming in over the internet. I had a dedicated server for VMs which I actually just upgraded to a new motherboard, DDR3 ram etc in preparation for the new AM3+ bulldozer processor. Given the weak performance of the new processor I am hanging out waiting for the next rev / price drops before taking that plunge. what I did do however is move all three of those VMs off onto my 16 core SQL Server machine. The only VM which truly needs much horsepower is the Accuzip VM and my performance dropped by half when I did the move. Whereas I was getting about 8-9 million records / hour on the dedicated VM Server, on Azul SQL Server machine I am lucky to get 4.5 million per hour. The difference is mostly just the core speed. The Magney-Cours server chips that I could afford run at 2.0 ghz and have ddr3 1300 memory (registered and ECC), whereas the new motherboard has DDR 1600 memory and a quad core Phenom lightly overclocked to 3.3 ghz. The additional clock speed and memory speed apparently makes for significant additional horsepower. Anyway, I have decided to take the speed hit on the Accuzip VM in order to clean off what was my dedicated VM server and use that for a MySQL machine. As servers go this machine is somewhat wimpy with 4 cores and 16 gigs of memory but for learning MySQL it should suffice. There has been a bit of interest expressed in MySQL, with some list members already using it and others trying to learn it. I count myself in the trying to learn it crowd. My intention is to go with MariaDB. Since I have Hyper-V running on this machine I am thinking about running mariaDB itself on a VM which would allow me to move the VM should I decide to keep it. I have to say I am not having a lot of luck getting a Linux distro running on a Hyper-V VM, but if I can make that happen that would be my preference. If anyone out there has experience getting a linux distro running in a Hyper-V VM running MariaDB let me know. I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Nov 23 16:34:36 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:34:36 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111123214110.HTDC18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.c o.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4ECD65A3.3640.4C8B3A43@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <20111123214110.HTDC18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111123223506.VRXM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Finally solved the problem. I got the administrator to delete my login totally from SQL and recreate it. Now I am in. Thanks David (and Stuart) for your help. At 24/11/2011, David Emerson wrote: >Done that to no avail. Will wait until the administrator can sort >out my profile issues before wasting more time on this problem. > >David > >At 24/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>IN SSMS 2005, while logged in as an administrator: >> >>Go to ServerName - Security - Logins and select the login in question. >>Right Click and select Properties >>Under "Select a Page", select User Mapping >>Make sure the databases that you want the Login to be able to >>access are ticked in the top >>right hand panel and the correct roles are set in the bottom panel. >> >>-- >>Stuart >> >>On 23 Nov 2011 at 12:59, David McAfee wrote: >> >> > From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer >> > >> > I can choose >> > Server Type : Database Engine >> > ServerName: YourServerName >> > Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to >> > Windows Authentication) >> > Login: limitedUser >> > password: xxxxx >> > >> > It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know >> he doesn't >> > have rights to, it will give me an error. >> > >> > If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson >> wrote: >> > >> > > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows >> > > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as >> > > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. >> > > >> > > >> > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > > >> > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? >> > >> >> > >> Still sounds like privileges to me. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson >> > >> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as >> > >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at >> the moment, I >> > >> can >> > >> >> click on the Office button. >> > >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose >> any server >> > >> and >> > >> >> then any database on that >> > >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you >> are not seeing >> > >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using >> another user's >> > >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the >> > >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > David >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson >> >> > >> >> wrote: >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your >> > >> login >> > >> >> >> behaves the same there? >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 >> R2). I can >> > >> view >> > >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role >> settings etc. Is >> > >> this >> > >> >> > what you mean? >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied >> access to the >> > >> >> >> database in question? >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. >> > >> Doesn't >> > >> >> > seem to have helped. >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> D >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson < >> > >> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz >> > >> >> >> >wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then >> > >> link >> > >> >> to >> > >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the >> > >> databases in >> > >> >> >> the >> > >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the >> > >> >> >> database I >> > >> >> >> > want. >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in >> the "Select >> > >> the >> > >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and >> > >> tempdb. >> > >> >> I >> > >> >> >> do >> > >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I >> can link to >> > >> >> these >> > >> >> >> and >> > >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the >> database I want is >> > >> >> not >> > >> >> >> one >> > >> >> >> > of these. >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL >> > >> Server. I >> > >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set >> all database >> > >> role >> > >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User >> > >> Mapping. >> > >> >> >> In >> > >> >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all >> rolls. Status shows I >> > >> have >> > >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the >> > >> database >> > >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" >> > >> dropdown. >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > Regards >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > David Emerson >> > >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> > >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 19:21:04 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 20:21:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Anyone and everyone interested in the subject of MySQL and MariaDB is invited to visit our site (www.artfulsoftware.com), from which you can download a bunch of chapters of our book plus all the source code for free. Beyond that, there is a nominal charge for everything, including free access to everything we add or revise or update during the next year. So far, I confess, there is nothing up yet that is specific to MariaDB, but this is a subject of concern to Peter and me, if only because we would rather sleep with Monty than Larry (metaphorically speaking of course :). Soon shall come additional chapters attempting to describe the buy-out, the momentary allegiance, and the subsequent divorce; and from then on we shall concentrate on MariaDB, leaving the old (except the obsolete) text intact, and building upon it as we follow Monty et. al. into the new world of MariaDB. This is not meant to disparage entirely Oracle's efforts in the MySQL realm. The documentation, to take only one example, has improved, and they have added some useful code as well. But our allegiance remains with Monty. This is an open invitation to all you readers interested in exploring this frontier, so that we can improve our documentation of same. We (Peter Brawley and I) shall try to answer your questions, and we are especially interested in the hurdles you find difficult when switching from MS SQL and other databases, entering the admittedly different world of MySQL and MariaDB. Since the original model was Oracle, I'm guessing that Oracle users will have the path of least resistance, but otoh if they're already into Oracle then why backtrack, except to avoid the huge licensing costs? Not that that's insufficient reason. But I digress. What I'm interested in is the Access and MS SQL user-place, and helping in those arenas. Arthur On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Darryl Collins < darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote: > "I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the > subject." > > Count me as 'interested'. Your posts are usually highly educational John > and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share your experiences > with the rest of us. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 23 19:38:01 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:38:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <5C019DD8-9855-4AF5-B8D6-4C3ABF380EC9@phulse.com> Hi John, I am just forwarding some links I sent someone else the other day regarding the same issue: Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/WindowsServerHyperV CentOS: http://www.hyper-v-mart.com/Howto/Install_CentOS_5_VM_Step_by_Step.aspx Ubuntu: http://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/961.aspx My personal preference is Debian (for more reasons than I can possibly list in a short email) and installing software is pretty easy. To install MySQL, all it takes is to write (as root user on the command line): # apt-get install mysql-server You may choose to do some additional configuration after that point. You will find those in the file: /etc/mysql/my.cnf Then, to start or stop the MySQL server, type either: # /etc/init.d/mysql start or # /etc/init.d/mysql stop ======================== Of course, this is for MySQL, not for MariaDB. Unfortunately, MariaDB has not yet been included into the default software repositories for Debian (or any of the others, I imagine), but you can install the packages from MariaDBs website. I personally recommend, though, that you set it up in your software repositories, as then you will be informed when there are updates and you can use the systems update mechanism to upgrade/patch things for you, rather than having to do it all manually. It's not hard to add Monty's repositories. If you follow this (http://downloads.askmonty.org/mariadb/repositories/), it will give you some lines to add to the file: /etc/apt/sources.list Once you add then, run the command: # apt-get update This will refresh the repository database. Then search for software package name: # apt-cache search mariadb This will list software packages with their name and description. Use that name with the following command: # apt-get install {name} Most likely it will be: #apt-get install mariadb Pretty trivial. - Hans On 2011-11-23, at 2:23 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > "I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject." > > Count me as 'interested'. Your posts are usually highly educational John and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share your experiences with the rest of us. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 3:35 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL > > I run three VMs pretty much 24/7 here at my home office, one which I call vmDev which is my development machine, another is my Accuzip third party software vm and one final machine runs SQL Server Express for Access clients coming in over the internet. I had a dedicated server for VMs which I actually just upgraded to a new motherboard, DDR3 ram etc in preparation for the new AM3+ bulldozer processor. Given the weak performance of the new processor I am hanging out waiting for the next rev / price drops before taking that plunge. > > what I did do however is move all three of those VMs off onto my 16 core SQL Server machine. The only VM which truly needs much horsepower is the Accuzip VM and my performance dropped by half when I did the move. Whereas I was getting about 8-9 million records / hour on the dedicated VM Server, on Azul SQL Server machine I am lucky to get 4.5 million per hour. The difference is mostly just the core speed. The Magney-Cours server chips that I could afford run at 2.0 ghz and have ddr3 1300 memory (registered and ECC), whereas the new motherboard has DDR 1600 memory and a quad core Phenom lightly overclocked to 3.3 ghz. The additional clock speed and memory speed apparently makes for significant additional horsepower. > > Anyway, I have decided to take the speed hit on the Accuzip VM in order to clean off what was my dedicated VM server and use that for a MySQL machine. As servers go this machine is somewhat wimpy with 4 cores and 16 gigs of memory but for learning MySQL it should suffice. > > There has been a bit of interest expressed in MySQL, with some list members already using it and others trying to learn it. I count myself in the trying to learn it crowd. > > My intention is to go with MariaDB. Since I have Hyper-V running on this machine I am thinking about running mariaDB itself on a VM which would allow me to move the VM should I decide to keep it. > I have to say I am not having a lot of luck getting a Linux distro running on a Hyper-V VM, but if I can make that happen that would be my preference. > > If anyone out there has experience getting a linux distro running in a Hyper-V VM running MariaDB let me know. > > I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject. > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 23 20:13:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 21:13:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> I have done some reading about MariaDB and how it is supposed to be a drop in replacement for MySQL. It is fascinating to me the whole process of merging code changes from everyone. Way over my head at this point but interesting none the less. As Oracle updates MySQL some parts of their stuff are apparently being integrated "backwards" into MariaDb, and things that the open source community are adding which Oracle refuses to use are being integrated into MariaDB. Supposedly the best of both worlds but how do they do that? On that note, I found this the other day: http://openlife.cc/blogs/2010/november/leaving-monty-program-and-mariadb Anyway from my reading of the whole thing, for folks wanting all the good stuff, The MariaDb fork is the road we need to travel, until such time as that is sold and the process starts all over. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/23/2011 8:21 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > Anyone and everyone interested in the subject of MySQL and MariaDB is > invited to visit our site (www.artfulsoftware.com), from which you can > download a bunch of chapters of our book plus all the source code for free. > Beyond that, there is a nominal charge for everything, including free > access to everything we add or revise or update during the next year. > > So far, I confess, there is nothing up yet that is specific to MariaDB, but > this is a subject of concern to Peter and me, if only because we would > rather sleep with Monty than Larry (metaphorically speaking of course :). > Soon shall come additional chapters attempting to describe the buy-out, the > momentary allegiance, and the subsequent divorce; and from then on we shall > concentrate on MariaDB, leaving the old (except the obsolete) text intact, > and building upon it as we follow Monty et. al. into the new world of > MariaDB. > > > This is not meant to disparage entirely Oracle's efforts in the MySQL > realm. The documentation, to take only one example, has improved, and they > have added some useful code as well. But our allegiance remains with Monty. > > This is an open invitation to all you readers interested in exploring this > frontier, so that we can improve our documentation of same. We (Peter > Brawley and I) shall try to answer your questions, and we are especially > interested in the hurdles you find difficult when switching from MS SQL and > other databases, entering the admittedly different world of MySQL and > MariaDB. Since the original model was Oracle, I'm guessing that Oracle > users will have the path of least resistance, but otoh if they're already > into Oracle then why backtrack, except to avoid the huge licensing costs? > Not that that's insufficient reason. But I digress. What I'm interested in > is the Access and MS SQL user-place, and helping in those arenas. > > Arthur > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Darryl Collins< > darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote: > >> "I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the >> subject." >> >> Count me as 'interested'. Your posts are usually highly educational John >> and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share your experiences >> with the rest of us. >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. >> >> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Nov 24 08:37:56 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:37:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I doubt that Monty will sell MariaDB, for two reasons: 1) he made enough money from selling MySQL to Larry to last him a few decades; 2) once bitten by the corporate sharks, it's doubtful you'll find him swimming again. Arthur On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:13 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Anyway from my reading of the whole thing, for folks wanting all the good > stuff, The MariaDb fork is the road we need to travel, until such time as > that is sold and the process starts all over. > > John W. Colby > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Thu Nov 24 08:52:56 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:52:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. Thanks for sharing. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > > > zzle/> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz > zle/ > > Rocky > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Nov 24 09:34:02 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 07:34:02 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Also, he doesn't have any more daughters to name the next database by. :) - Hans On 2011-11-24, at 6:37 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I doubt that Monty will sell MariaDB, for two reasons: 1) he made enough > money from selling MySQL to Larry to last him a few decades; 2) once bitten > by the corporate sharks, it's doubtful you'll find him swimming again. > > Arthur > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:13 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> Anyway from my reading of the whole thing, for folks wanting all the good >> stuff, The MariaDb fork is the road we need to travel, until such time as >> that is sold and the process starts all over. >> >> John W. Colby >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 24 11:54:09 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:54:09 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <8C8D533449CB492CB01C17DBACE8B3D5@creativesystemdesigns.com> I believe some people can not be bought and Monty is probably one of them. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL I doubt that Monty will sell MariaDB, for two reasons: 1) he made enough money from selling MySQL to Larry to last him a few decades; 2) once bitten by the corporate sharks, it's doubtful you'll find him swimming again. Arthur On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:13 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Anyway from my reading of the whole thing, for folks wanting all the good > stuff, The MariaDb fork is the road we need to travel, until such time as > that is sold and the process starts all over. > > John W. Colby > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 24 11:55:11 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:55:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Will we live that long? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. Thanks for sharing. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > > > zzle/> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz > zle/ > > Rocky > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Thu Nov 24 12:07:46 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:07:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007><4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Will we live that long? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the > challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to > stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. > Thanks for sharing. > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. >> >> >> > > zzle/> >> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz >> zle/ >> >> Rocky >> From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 24 12:26:01 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:26:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007><4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com><121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Message-ID: So far, so good, eh? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:08 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Will we live that long? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the > challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to > stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. > Thanks for sharing. > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. >> >> >> > est-pu >> zzle/> >> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-harde > st-puz >> zle/ >> >> Rocky >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Thu Nov 24 16:41:59 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:41:59 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE352@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Indeed, I have passed this on myself to a few people excess capacity in both brain power and spare time - lucky bugger ;) good on them though, all of them deserve it. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, 25 November 2011 1:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. Thanks for sharing. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > > > est-pu > zzle/> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-harde > st-puz > zle/ > > Rocky > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 24 19:38:11 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:38:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. Browse sourceforge.net sometime. When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first page: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 years, than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. At least in the USA. Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant Technologies, etc. Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. From vbacreations at gmail.com Thu Nov 24 21:15:14 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:15:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Message-ID: When I clicked link says Page Lost On Nov 24, 2011 1:27 PM, "Rocky Smolin" wrote: > So far, so good, eh? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Will we live that long? > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > > Fields > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > > > Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the > > challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to > > stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. > > Thanks for sharing. > > T > > > > Tina Norris Fields > > tinanfields at torchlake.com > > 231-322-2787 > > > > > > On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > >> > >> > >> > > > est-pu > >> zzle/> > >> > > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-harde > > st-puz > >> zle/ > >> > >> Rocky > >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Thu Nov 24 21:26:04 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 03:26:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE5B9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> It is because the original post didn't constrain the link text with << >>, so it is broken on the word wrap. Try: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson Sent: Friday, 25 November 2011 2:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' When I clicked link says Page Lost On Nov 24, 2011 1:27 PM, "Rocky Smolin" wrote: > So far, so good, eh? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Will we live that long? > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina > > Norris Fields > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > > > Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the > > challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to > > stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. > > Thanks for sharing. > > T > > > > Tina Norris Fields > > tinanfields at torchlake.com > > 231-322-2787 > > > > > > On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > >> > >> > >> > > > rd > > est-pu > >> zzle/> > >> > > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-har > > de > > st-puz > >> zle/ > >> > >> Rocky > >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 24 21:48:40 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:48:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> Message-ID: <4ECF1018.5020706@colbyconsulting.com> I hear you. OTOH there are success stories including Linux itself. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/24/2011 8:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. > This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. > > Browse sourceforge.net sometime. > When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first > page: > http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ > 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! > > There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 > years, > than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. > > Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. > At least in the USA. > Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant > Technologies, etc. > > Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... > Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. > > My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 24 22:04:33 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:04:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECF1018.5020706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com>, <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net>, <4ECF1018.5020706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ECF13D1.27064.531B7266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Just a few of the sourceforge projects I use quite regularly: VLC Player, Gimp, Ghostscript, VirtualDub, Inkscape, Audacity, PDFCreator, TightVNC, AngryIPScanner -- Stuart On 24 Nov 2011 at 22:48, jwcolby wrote: > I hear you. OTOH there are success stories including Linux itself. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/24/2011 8:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > > My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. > > This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. > > > > Browse sourceforge.net sometime. > > When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first > > page: > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ > > 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! > > > > There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 > > years, > > than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. > > > > Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. > > At least in the USA. > > Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant > > Technologies, etc. > > > > Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... > > Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. > > > > My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 24 23:24:05 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:24:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> Message-ID: <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> Some application go and some stay. We have to look no further than Google, Microsoft, Adobe or Oracle to see how many applications they have bailed on, in even the last year. That is the nature of the business. We can look at other applications like Linux, MySQL, Apache, MS Word, Windows and hundreds more and these ones have survived and have become part of the computer infrastructure. MariaDB is MySQL, same designer, same code. I have been using DBDesigner 4 for about 8 years and the creators are long gone. It is still great at building MS SQL and MySQL schemas from graphics. Interesting to note that the "ta-lib" set of tools are been redesigned as of May 2011, but by a different company, this time with a GNU license. Just like MS Access, it is not dead and people will be using it for years even if Microsoft abandons it all together. Which might not be a bad thing as then some unrestricted developers could Open Source it, rebuild the application, with C# (RonR, F#, C++) instead of VB, translator from VB to C#, full web interface and with a DB BE that would even make Oracle shutter. My thought is do not worry, do your research, just pick some nice tools or applications that does what you need and then abandon it when it doesn't. There is always another great application coming along. OTOH, just like the song say, "...know when to hold, know when to fold, know when to walk away, know when to run..." Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 5:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. Browse sourceforge.net sometime. When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first page: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 years, than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. At least in the USA. Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant Technologies, etc. Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 24 23:26:22 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:26:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECF13D1.27064.531B7266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <4ECF1018.5020706@colbyconsulting.com> <4ECF13D1.27064.531B7266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: All absolute excellent products and you have just touched the surface. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 8:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL Just a few of the sourceforge projects I use quite regularly: VLC Player, Gimp, Ghostscript, VirtualDub, Inkscape, Audacity, PDFCreator, TightVNC, AngryIPScanner -- Stuart On 24 Nov 2011 at 22:48, jwcolby wrote: > I hear you. OTOH there are success stories including Linux itself. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/24/2011 8:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > > My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. > > This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. > > > > Browse sourceforge.net sometime. > > When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first > > page: > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ > > 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! > > > > There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 > > years, > > than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. > > > > Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. > > At least in the USA. > > Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant > > Technologies, etc. > > > > Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... > > Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. > > > > My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pedro at plex.nl Fri Nov 25 09:53:59 2011 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:53:59 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Access and Word import Message-ID: <201111250853.pAP8rx5P028738@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Group, I have a MS-Word file with data that is given at the end of this mail. I would like to select out the number T10-00008 and 5 positions after the words "Radicaliteit:" en "Diff:", with a script or macro and save these in Access or in a txt file for importing in Access. The textfile looks like "T10-00008";"plus ";"+++ " "T10-00014";"negat ";"++ " or in Access like: Number Radi Diff T10-00008 plus +++ T10-00014 negat ++ Thanks Pedro ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** T10-00008 2010-01-04 pn: 00000000, gb: ............................ CONCLUSIE: Patient met tumor. Radicaliteit: plus , ......... Diff: +++ ....... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** T10-00014 ..................etc CONCLUSIE: Algemene malaise. Radicaliteit: negatief , ......... Diff: ++ ....... From marksimms at verizon.net Fri Nov 25 07:44:47 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:44:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> Someone said MARIADB is the same source code as MYSQL ? I find it hard to believe that greedy Larry Ellison made that kind of deal with the originators of MYSQL. It's not like him to permit competition !! Larry loves to not just "level the playing field", but to destroy it. From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Nov 25 08:51:45 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 06:51:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> Message-ID: Mark, MySQL is released under the GPL v2. Oracle purchased Suns assets with this understanding (and likewise, Sun purchased MySQL AB knowingly accepting the terms of the license), so Oracle couldn't lock up the code even if they wanted to. There are things they can do, like provide proprietary extensions and they could even just remove download links to the source code (or kill the project altogether), but it is fully within the rights of anyone to fork the code and do with it whatever they want legally. Fortunately, Oracle seems to be somewhat accepting of their situation for the time being. - Hans On 2011-11-25, at 5:44 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Someone said MARIADB is the same source code as MYSQL ? > > > I find it hard to believe that greedy Larry Ellison made that kind of deal > with the originators of MYSQL. > It's not like him to permit competition !! Larry loves to not just "level > the playing field", but to destroy it. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 25 09:22:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:22:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> Message-ID: <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> > Someone said MARIADB is the same source code as MYSQL ? MariaDB is the same source code base, taken from MySQL. Take what I say with a heaping handful of salt but my understanding is that the license for an open source project states something like - You may take this source base. If you modify any of this base code you must offer the changes back to the community. You may however add entirely new code for functionality that does not exist in the source base, and if you do you do not have to offer that back to the community. I am not intimately familiar with the history (Perhaps Arthur can step up here) but it seems that Sun was the "originator of" the source base. When they made any modifications of any kind including major new enhancements, they were adding those mods to the source base and they were available under the open source license. Oracle bought Sun. Oracle decided to hold onto major new enhancements and not offer them back to the community. Thus Oracle is building MySQL editions for sale which use the code base plus their enhancements. MariaDB took the code base and "forked it" and started adding major new enhancements which are kept in the open source community. From what I can tell, because it is in the public domain, Oracle can if they wish take the enhancements that MariaDB makes and add those into the base that they make available for free, and because that is in their "for sale" version they can use those enhancements in their "for sale" versions. But we will never see their "for sale" enhancements without paying their licensing fees. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/25/2011 8:44 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Someone said MARIADB is the same source code as MYSQL ? > > > I find it hard to believe that greedy Larry Ellison made that kind of deal > with the originators of MYSQL. > It's not like him to permit competition !! Larry loves to not just "level > the playing field", but to destroy it. > > > From marksimms at verizon.net Fri Nov 25 11:34:53 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:34:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> Wow, let get this crazy GPL stuff straight: Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them into their version and give them away OR.... It can even sell them ? Again, I guess I really must understand that in the open source software business, the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Nov 25 12:13:14 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:13:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> Message-ID: > Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them > into their version and give them away OR?. It can even sell them ? Technically, you can, but only as a redistribution price and you are bound by terms of the GPL to also distribute the source code along with it. You cannot "sell the software" as in "selling the rights to use it". That is not permissible, since they do not own the rights to the MariaDB source code. > the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and, MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? That's right. Also, a lot of open source businesses are supported by means of funding by different companies that depend on their products. And, on occasion, those businesses then get snapped up by larger organisations (ie. Oracle, IBM, etc). On the flip side, if the project is very successful in the community and the owners prefer to donate their project to the greater good of the community, what can also happen is that they donate the code to the protection of someone like the Apache Software Foundation (ie. like Hadoop, Apache web server, Cassandra DB, etc). - Hans On 2011-11-25, at 9:34 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Wow, let get this crazy GPL stuff straight: > > Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them into > their version and give them away OR.... > It can even sell them ? > > Again, I guess I really must understand that in the open source software > business, the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and > MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 25 12:20:19 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 04:20:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com>, <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> Message-ID: <4ECFDC63.14826.20349C6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Take a look at http://www.mysql.com/products/community/ and http://www.mysql.com/products/ Oracle sell support and add-ons. Any MariaDB enhancements would have to be incorporated in the core Community Edition, not in one of their proprietary add-ons. -- Stuart. On 25 Nov 2011 at 12:34, Mark Simms wrote: > Wow, let get this crazy GPL stuff straight: > > Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them into > their version and give them away OR.... > It can even sell them ? > > Again, I guess I really must understand that in the open source software > business, the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and > MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Fri Nov 25 12:39:13 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:39:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007><4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com><121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesys temdesigns.com><4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <4ECFE0D1.7090304@torchlake.com> Umm - yes, so far. I woke up this morning and I'm still here. Must be a good thing. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/24/2011 1:26 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > So far, so good, eh? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Will we live that long? >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris >> Fields >> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' >> >> Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the >> challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to >> stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. >> Thanks for sharing. >> T >> >> Tina Norris Fields >> tinanfields at torchlake.com >> 231-322-2787 >> >> >> On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. >>> >>> >>> >> > est-pu >>> zzle/> >>> >> http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-harde >> st-puz >>> zle/ >>> >>> Rocky >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Nov 25 12:43:10 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:43:10 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> Message-ID: That is correct. One of Microsoft's very reliable revenue streams is product support. ;-) A company may need a piece of software to run their business and they will just hire a software developer to add some enhancements for their purposes and then hire an integrator to assemble a group of packages. They will of course know any improvements dealing directly with the core will have to be added back to the license but they will have a complete set of source code at the end, which is an ultimate form of business security. All these transactions of course make money, the software continues to evolve and improve at a much more rapid pace than proprietary designed products. (You only have to look at how long IE6 languished and how fast such products like FF evolved. To MS's credit, they have worked very hard to keep pace but do not have the number of programmers and they are just viewing the support of IE as nothing more than the cost of doing business.) The business is more like a code rental where the renters are encouraged to make improvements, than a product purchase, so the renters are no longer stuck to the whims of a proprietary system and continuous licensing fees. I for one, have probably spent a lot of money on donating to various Open Source products, 10, 25 and sometimes a hundred, over the years. If I like the software, I like to encourage it. To add a political note; Open Source software can be viewed as a blend of socialized software and free-enterprise, both in their purest forms. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 9:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL Wow, let get this crazy GPL stuff straight: Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them into their version and give them away OR.... It can even sell them ? Again, I guess I really must understand that in the open source software business, the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 25 14:50:01 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:50:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How many frames per second can the human eye see? Message-ID: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 25 16:52:14 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 08:52:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How many frames per second can the human eye see? In-Reply-To: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED01C1E.25389.2FC3ACD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Great stuff - thought provoking. -- Stuart On 25 Nov 2011 at 15:50, jwcolby wrote: > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 26 08:28:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:28:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman Message-ID: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeWindowsBetter.aspx From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat Nov 26 10:05:21 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:05:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How many frames per second can the human eye see? In-Reply-To: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED10E41.4010504@torchlake.com> Interesting. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/25/2011 3:50 PM, jwcolby wrote: > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 10:22:39 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:22:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How many frames per second can the human eye see? In-Reply-To: <4ED10E41.4010504@torchlake.com> References: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED10E41.4010504@torchlake.com> Message-ID: I'm not seeing the link or whatever, but am curious to know more. Makes me think of the seemingly-backwards-turning stagecoach wheels in old Westerns. A. On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Tina Norris Fields < tinanfields at torchlake.com> wrote: > Interesting. > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > > On 11/25/2011 3:50 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 10:38:24 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:38:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting up a blog. I love to write. That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog service sites ? I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ And it appears Wordpress is the best. However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to purchase the software and templates, etc. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > indowsBetter.aspx > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 10:41:29 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:41:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] blog censorship In-Reply-To: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <003c01ccac5a$3fdbdf30$bf939d90$@net> http://ncacblog.wordpress.com/ Yep, there's even a wordpress blog about blog censorship !! From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 11:18:46 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:18:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9F9D0EDD24B84A089305018C286D10CC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeWindow sBetter.aspx -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 11:37:00 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:37:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> Message-ID: Hi Mark: Wordpress is definitely the best as far as I have seen. A Wordpress site was set up for my wife so she could organize a large project that covered a number of countries. It was very successful but not the traditional use for the site as just a Blog. Wordpress is written in PHP, not that a user has to know but for the more adventuresome individual there are thousands of hacks that can allow you to do anything...and if you are or what to learn PHP, a massive mature language, you can make Wordpress do anything. Many people view Wordpress blogs that don't even know it as the site has been so tricked up. The only thing that would be really nice is if you could access a database but I am sure someone has figured out how. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Blogging When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting up a blog. I love to write. That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog service sites ? I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ And it appears Wordpress is the best. However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to purchase the software and templates, etc. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > indowsBetter.aspx > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 12:20:14 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:20:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> Message-ID: I use WordPress for my blog and have been extremely happy with it. They've recently added the ability to implement social media sharing to various site by simply turning on the ones you want. The dashboard is busy but less complicated than it looks. The one thing I haven't figured out yet (haven't tried to hard either!) is how to back link it to my website. It's on the website already as a tab, but if you go straight in through http://charlottefoust.wordpress.com/ there's no direct link to the site. Charlotte Foust On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting > up a blog. > I love to write. > That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog > service sites ? > I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ > > > And it appears Wordpress is the best. > However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. > Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? > In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? > Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to > purchase > the software and templates, etc. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > > Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > > > > indowsBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Sat Nov 26 13:36:37 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:36:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. Here is what I have picked up so far. Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to ?evil doers? who may try to get at it. There are several ?remote control? products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on ?peripheral? topics. Thanks, Brad From garykjos at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 13:56:10 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:56:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I use remote desktop via a secure VPN encrypted connection. Not sure what is done on the server end to allow this to work but we use Cisco VPN Client software We each have security key fob type things that display a changing number and we have to enter that number along with our login info to make it work. GK On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. > > I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. ?We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. > > I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). > > I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). > > I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. > > Here is what I have picked up so far. > > Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to ?evil doers? who may try to get at it. > > There are several ?remote control? products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. > > As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. > > I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on ?peripheral? topics. > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Sat Nov 26 15:18:30 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:18:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <00ce01ccac80$f271aff0$d7550fd0$@cox.net> I have a client who's IT folks set up a VPN and I use remote desktop to work on that system. For all others I use Techinline.com. It costs $ but seems fast and works all over the world. They have several purchase programs. We don't use much so buy 20 sessions at a time. A session is good for a day. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. Here is what I have picked up so far. Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to "evil doers" who may try to get at it. There are several "remote control" products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on "peripheral" topics. Thanks, Brad From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat Nov 26 15:27:01 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:27:01 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A785A0@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> I remote to my desktop to get around cytrix which we are supposed to use. I also use vnc to remote to another system. Martin Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Brad Marks Sent: 26/11/2011 19:41 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. Here is what I have picked up so far. Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to ?evil doers? who may try to get at it. There are several ?remote control? products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on ?peripheral? topics. Thanks, Brad From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 16:25:40 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 17:25:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002601ccac8a$54d8f230$fe8ad690$@net> I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 26 18:02:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 19:02:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED17E1A.5060805@colbyconsulting.com> I use Hamachi to set up a Virtual Private Network. Only people that I allow can join the network. I join the network as a client and I set up the server side on the system I want to control. Voila, static IP. Hamachi can be disabled but most small shops do not know how nor for that matter that it even exists. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/26/2011 2:36 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. > > I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. > > I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). > > I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). > > I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. > > Here is what I have picked up so far. > > Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to ?evil doers? who may try to get at it. > > There are several ?remote control? products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. > > As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. > > I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on ?peripheral? topics. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 26 18:23:37 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:23:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <9F9D0EDD24B84A089305018C286D10CC@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <9F9D0EDD24B84A089305018C286D10CC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. It's great. On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeWindow > sBetter.aspx > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 26 18:35:05 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:35:05 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net>, Message-ID: <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> With Wordpress, you can either create a new blog on the Wordpress site or download it and install it on your own web server. All you need to run it on any hosted website is PHP 5.2.4+ and MySQL 5.0+ support. They are almost universal. Since it uses MySQL for the BE, you can access the databse with phpMyAdmin which should come with any hosting package that offers PHP/MySQL. If you want to host it on your own server, You just need to install WAMP or XAMP and then Wordpress. If you set it up on a hosting service, the only real potential censorship is the hosting organisation closing your site down. If you set it up on your own server, the only potential censorship is your Connection Provider cutting you off completely. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:37, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Mark: > > Wordpress is definitely the best as far as I have seen. A Wordpress site was > set up for my wife so she could organize a large project that covered a > number of countries. It was very successful but not the traditional use for > the site as just a Blog. > > Wordpress is written in PHP, not that a user has to know but for the more > adventuresome individual there are thousands of hacks that can allow you to > do anything...and if you are or what to learn PHP, a massive mature > language, you can make Wordpress do anything. Many people view Wordpress > blogs that don't even know it as the site has been so tricked up. > > The only thing that would be really nice is if you could access a database > but I am sure someone has figured out how. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:38 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Blogging > > When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting > up a blog. > I love to write. > That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog > service sites ? > I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ > And it appears Wordpress is the best. > However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. > Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? > In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? > Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to purchase > the software and templates, etc. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > > Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > > indowsBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 19:15:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 17:15:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <4ED17E1A.5060805@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED17E1A.5060805@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <2FC223ECE659421AAEB320B52C09E62C@creativesystemdesigns.com> I agree the Hamachi is the securest and simplest VPN to setup and then whatever remote desktop software you want to use is just fine as its security is irrelevant. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 4:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access I use Hamachi to set up a Virtual Private Network. Only people that I allow can join the network. I join the network as a client and I set up the server side on the system I want to control. Voila, static IP. Hamachi can be disabled but most small shops do not know how nor for that matter that it even exists. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/26/2011 2:36 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. > > I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. > > I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). > > I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). > > I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. > > Here is what I have picked up so far. > > Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to "evil doers" who may try to get at it. > > There are several "remote control" products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. > > As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. > > I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on "peripheral" topics. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 19:19:29 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 17:19:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <5FC737C6594A47ECBFEF1A94AC765A56@creativesystemdesigns.com> Moreover, there you have the best way...a little more work than a having WP host it but unlimited options. I guess most of the DBA members have their own servers. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 4:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blogging With Wordpress, you can either create a new blog on the Wordpress site or download it and install it on your own web server. All you need to run it on any hosted website is PHP 5.2.4+ and MySQL 5.0+ support. They are almost universal. Since it uses MySQL for the BE, you can access the databse with phpMyAdmin which should come with any hosting package that offers PHP/MySQL. If you want to host it on your own server, You just need to install WAMP or XAMP and then Wordpress. If you set it up on a hosting service, the only real potential censorship is the hosting organisation closing your site down. If you set it up on your own server, the only potential censorship is your Connection Provider cutting you off completely. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:37, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Mark: > > Wordpress is definitely the best as far as I have seen. A Wordpress site was > set up for my wife so she could organize a large project that covered a > number of countries. It was very successful but not the traditional use for > the site as just a Blog. > > Wordpress is written in PHP, not that a user has to know but for the more > adventuresome individual there are thousands of hacks that can allow you to > do anything...and if you are or what to learn PHP, a massive mature > language, you can make Wordpress do anything. Many people view Wordpress > blogs that don't even know it as the site has been so tricked up. > > The only thing that would be really nice is if you could access a database > but I am sure someone has figured out how. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:38 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Blogging > > When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting > up a blog. > I love to write. > That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog > service sites ? > I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ > And it appears Wordpress is the best. > However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. > Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? > In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? > Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to purchase > the software and templates, etc. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > > Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > > indowsBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Nov 26 20:06:10 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 20:06:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <9F9D0EDD24B84A089305018C286D10CC@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I want them. Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. It's great. On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > Window > sBetter.aspx > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 26 20:24:46 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:24:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Nov 26 21:25:49 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:25:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel - at a 'small' price! Is it worth $9.95? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 22:08:22 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 23:08:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net>, <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001101ccacba$34c12730$9e437590$@net> Wow, thanks for that Stuart. Yes, and it is incredible that censorship is "THE ISSUE" surrounding BLOGGING. I had a funny feeling that would be the case....and I was proven 100% correct. If you guys haven't determined by now, I'm shortly moving into a new and "risqu?" area now.... far, far away from IT....relative to the core of my business at present. Still, I'll be using some of my IT talents to some degree...and that's THE good thing. Boy, is this a great American paraphrase or what ? : "Ya gotta do, what ya gotta do". And that, my friends, is my modus-operandi. I am right now on my final "stinker" contract (3 months, high pressure, low pay).... Not just one, but multiple agencies are now making money off of my talents... while "I do the work, and they make the money". It all ends in March 2012. After that, if all goes well, I am into a whole new world....and "so be it". And guys (and gals), this new world is simply crazy...with DEMAND.... something I have NOT witnessed in the past 5 years ! Unlike 15 years ago, I've never heard any recruiter or agency over the past 5 years say anything like: "wow, your talent is really in demand, you're really valuable". NOPE: None...Nada...Zippo..Zilch...Zed...Zero. The Indians simply LEVELED the IT contracting marketplace. I mean, it was NUCLEAR in it's effects ! In fact, recent interviews were actually DEMEANING to me. Yep, you bet...even in the good old USA. Bottomline: Employment Agencies....."rule the roost". They're in complete control. Someone on this fine list once said that "they?ve got an monopoly". INDEED they do. If you don't have the latest and greatest "in-demand" skills...you are completely worthless....a pathetic $40 or $50 bucks an hour....at most....no benefits. That's a net $20/hr gig essentially. Heck, many college grads are making more than that with no experience. Newly minted "PharmD's" are at $60/hr. The key to my new world is "fulfillment"....BUT that is easier said than done. To be successful, it will require tremendous "attention to detail". How many times have we all heard that ? And so, that becomes my new mission in life. Sorry if this has become a diatribe of sorts...I had some wine tonight...an excellent and rich Cabernet: Arrowood 2003, Sonoma County, CA. Whew, it "rocks". From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 26 22:30:01 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:30:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel - at > a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently > on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > > want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 22:52:11 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 23:52:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <005401ccacc0$5418ee00$fc4aca00$@gmail.com> Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as $19.95. I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be cycled through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different fences depending on the view selected. Is that possible? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 23:47:49 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:47:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <001101ccacba$34c12730$9e437590$@net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001101ccacba$34c12730$9e437590$@net> Message-ID: <31EE8F0063874009A8F60ADCB58126C7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Mark: Well, don't just leave us hanging, tell us what you are up to. I promise I will not follow you. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blogging Wow, thanks for that Stuart. Yes, and it is incredible that censorship is "THE ISSUE" surrounding BLOGGING. I had a funny feeling that would be the case....and I was proven 100% correct. If you guys haven't determined by now, I'm shortly moving into a new and "risqui" area now.... far, far away from IT....relative to the core of my business at present. Still, I'll be using some of my IT talents to some degree...and that's THE good thing. Boy, is this a great American paraphrase or what ? : "Ya gotta do, what ya gotta do". And that, my friends, is my modus-operandi. I am right now on my final "stinker" contract (3 months, high pressure, low pay).... Not just one, but multiple agencies are now making money off of my talents... while "I do the work, and they make the money". It all ends in March 2012. After that, if all goes well, I am into a whole new world....and "so be it". And guys (and gals), this new world is simply crazy...with DEMAND.... something I have NOT witnessed in the past 5 years ! Unlike 15 years ago, I've never heard any recruiter or agency over the past 5 years say anything like: "wow, your talent is really in demand, you're really valuable". NOPE: None...Nada...Zippo..Zilch...Zed...Zero. The Indians simply LEVELED the IT contracting marketplace. I mean, it was NUCLEAR in it's effects ! In fact, recent interviews were actually DEMEANING to me. Yep, you bet...even in the good old USA. Bottomline: Employment Agencies....."rule the roost". They're in complete control. Someone on this fine list once said that "theyve got an monopoly". INDEED they do. If you don't have the latest and greatest "in-demand" skills...you are completely worthless....a pathetic $40 or $50 bucks an hour....at most....no benefits. That's a net $20/hr gig essentially. Heck, many college grads are making more than that with no experience. Newly minted "PharmD's" are at $60/hr. The key to my new world is "fulfillment"....BUT that is easier said than done. To be successful, it will require tremendous "attention to detail". How many times have we all heard that ? And so, that becomes my new mission in life. Sorry if this has become a diatribe of sorts...I had some wine tonight...an excellent and rich Cabernet: Arrowood 2003, Sonoma County, CA. Whew, it "rocks". From vbacreations at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 23:47:59 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 00:47:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <005a01ccacc8$1f796d70$5e6c4850$@gmail.com> When I clicked BUY at 19.95, that is when it reduces the price... no other warning. So, thanks for the tip~! -----Original Message----- From: William Benson (VBACreations.Com) [mailto:vbacreations at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as $19.95. I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be cycled through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different fences depending on the view selected. Is that possible? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 00:05:45 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 16:05:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <005a01ccacc8$1f796d70$5e6c4850$@gmail.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <>, <005a01ccacc8$1f796d70$5e6c4850$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ED1D339.10234.9AF7F11@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> This page shows $19.95 in red and struck out with $9.95 in black beside it: http://www.stardock.com/products/ as does this page: http://www.stardock.com/products/fences/purchase.asp -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 0:47, William Benson (VBACreations. wrote: > When I clicked BUY at 19.95, that is when it reduces the price... no other > warning. So, thanks for the tip~! > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Benson (VBACreations.Com) [mailto:vbacreations at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as > $19.95. > > I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be cycled > through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different > fences depending on the view selected. > > Is that possible? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently > on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > > want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Sun Nov 27 00:10:05 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 01:10:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED1D339.10234.9AF7F11@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <005a01ccacc8$1f796d70$5e6c4850$@gmail.com> <4ED1D339.10234.9AF7F11@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Bought a gift copy for my client whose bday was last week. On Nov 27, 2011 1:07 AM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > This page shows $19.95 in red and struck out with $9.95 in black beside it: > > http://www.stardock.com/products/ > as does this page: > http://www.stardock.com/products/fences/purchase.asp > > > -- > Stuart > > On 27 Nov 2011 at 0:47, William Benson (VBACreations. wrote: > > > When I clicked BUY at 19.95, that is when it reduces the price... no > other > > warning. So, thanks for the tip~! > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: William Benson (VBACreations.Com) [mailto:vbacreations at gmail.com] > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:52 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as > > $19.95. > > > > I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be > cycled > > through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different > > fences depending on the view selected. > > > > Is that possible? > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently > > on "special" at > > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > the > > > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them > where I > > > want them. > > > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > > > Dan > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows > > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to > > it. > > > It's great. > > > > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > John W. Colby > > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > > > Window > > > > sBetter.aspx > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Nov 27 05:26:05 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:26:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Message-ID: Hi Brad and Mark It's more than just fine. It's excellent, and we set up the free version routinely on all workstations as my colleagues often work out of the house. Also, they often have dedicated workstations at clients where we install it too so these machines can be reached from our office (or home or other clients' locations). It can't be made easier to set up - takes a minute or so and works through any firewall and requires zero "special" things to be done. For more dedicated use, however, we do establish Remote Desktop to an in-house terminal server because of the local printing option. Some prefer TeamViewer which is excellent too. However, the free version is for "private use" only and we are reluctant to install such software for professional use. /gustav >>> marksimms at verizon.net 26-11-2011 23:25 >>> I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 09:27:59 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:27:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08EE19CB-844B-4186-B8A7-BCA64F8D1FA0@verizon.net> I find teamviewer simpler to use then lomein as I find their interface clumsy. Teamviewer is not cheap, but it's well worth the money. The way they license too is great for small shops. Jim Sent from my iPhone On Nov 27, 2011, at 6:26 AM, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Brad and Mark > > It's more than just fine. It's excellent, and we set up the free version routinely on all workstations as my colleagues often work out of the house. Also, they often have dedicated workstations at clients where we install it too so these machines can be reached from our office (or home or other clients' locations). > > It can't be made easier to set up - takes a minute or so and works through any firewall and requires zero "special" things to be done. > For more dedicated use, however, we do establish Remote Desktop to an in-house terminal server because of the local printing option. > > Some prefer TeamViewer which is excellent too. However, the free version is for "private use" only and we are reluctant to install such software for professional use. > > /gustav > > >>>> marksimms at verizon.net 26-11-2011 23:25 >>> > I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 09:39:51 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:39:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and installation. However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 09:50:36 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <31EE8F0063874009A8F60ADCB58126C7@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001101ccacba$34c12730$9e437590$@net> <31EE8F0063874009A8F60ADCB58126C7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <003601ccad1c$4eab23f0$ec016bd0$@net> > Well, don't just leave us hanging, tell us what you are up to. I > promise I will not follow you. ;-) I assembled a rough business plan....and now I am in the process of refining it. How ? By visiting my potential competition.... and scoring and ranking them. Yep, that's what the BLOG is going to do. I am most interested in getting independent feedback on the scores and verbal review from other customers. After all, one cannot really make a thorough assessment with only a single transaction. Sooooo.....Jim.... All in good time. From df.waters at comcast.net Sun Nov 27 10:10:04 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:10:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> <4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net> I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic features to be useful. So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > - at a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > them where I want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThat > > > Make > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Nov 27 10:39:39 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 08:39:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net><4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to do and don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, Computer, and drives shortcuts. Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets I use often right from the desktop in another. A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. Another fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm done working on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their folder on comp 2. A fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, Ghost, Lexmark Printer stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic features to be useful. So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > - at a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > them where I want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThat > > > Make > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Sun Nov 27 10:45:06 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:45:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access References: Message-ID: All, Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Gustav Brock Sent: Sun 11/27/2011 5:26 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Hi Brad and Mark It's more than just fine. It's excellent, and we set up the free version routinely on all workstations as my colleagues often work out of the house. Also, they often have dedicated workstations at clients where we install it too so these machines can be reached from our office (or home or other clients' locations). It can't be made easier to set up - takes a minute or so and works through any firewall and requires zero "special" things to be done. For more dedicated use, however, we do establish Remote Desktop to an in-house terminal server because of the local printing option. Some prefer TeamViewer which is excellent too. However, the free version is for "private use" only and we are reluctant to install such software for professional use. /gustav >>> marksimms at verizon.net 26-11-2011 23:25 >>> I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 10:54:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 11:54:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> References: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> Message-ID: <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very easy to use however. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." > > That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and > installation. > However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". > I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 10:57:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 11:57:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> Remote Desktop is tightly integrated with Windows. All the others are layered on top of Windows. Remote Desktop is indeed much much faster in most cases and I prefer RD whenever I can make that work. That is why I prefer Hamachi VPN when I can make that work. I have hard IPs and so I can use RD over Hamachi. Hamachi also allows you to browse network shares on the remote computer and even map network shares to local drive letters if you so desire. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 11:45 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. > > With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. > In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. > > Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? > > I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. > > Brad From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Nov 27 11:04:23 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 09:04:23 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Can you transfer files with remote desktop? I found that you can transfer files with Skype - very handy. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very easy to use however. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." > > That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and > installation. > However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". > I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sun Nov 27 11:22:19 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 11:22:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net><4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net> <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> Message-ID: <001801ccad29$1e64d210$5b2e7630$@comcast.net> I tried it for the first time yesterday. I wanted a fence which enclosed the shortcuts for all my customers' stuff. But within the fence the shortcuts kept 'auto-arranging' themselves, which mixed up the shortcut locations. I wanted each customer's shortcuts in a vertical column, but (for example) the fence would not let me have a column of 7 shortcuts and a column of 5 shortcuts - they kept rearranging to two columns of 6 shortcuts. I hope the pro version does let me put the shortcuts where I want them. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to do and don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, Computer, and drives shortcuts. Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets I use often right from the desktop in another. A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. Another fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm done working on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their folder on comp 2. A fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, Ghost, Lexmark Printer stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic features to be useful. So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > - at a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > them where I want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThat > > > Make > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Nov 27 11:37:54 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 09:37:54 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilitiesthat makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001801ccad29$1e64d210$5b2e7630$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net><4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net><15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> <001801ccad29$1e64d210$5b2e7630$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <60C88AD8710645D99FEE95AC508DCE83@HAL9007> How about two fences of 6 shortcuts? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilitiesthat makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I tried it for the first time yesterday. I wanted a fence which enclosed the shortcuts for all my customers' stuff. But within the fence the shortcuts kept 'auto-arranging' themselves, which mixed up the shortcut locations. I wanted each customer's shortcuts in a vertical column, but (for example) the fence would not let me have a column of 7 shortcuts and a column of 5 shortcuts - they kept rearranging to two columns of 6 shortcuts. I hope the pro version does let me put the shortcuts where I want them. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to do and don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, Computer, and drives shortcuts. Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets I use often right from the desktop in another. A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. Another fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm done working on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their folder on comp 2. A fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, Ghost, Lexmark Printer stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic features to be useful. So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > - at a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > them where I want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThat > > > Make > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 11:57:57 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:57:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0DD97455-0FDF-4932-8D0B-5490F9AAD5B4@verizon.net> That's not as true as you might think. All run on top of terminal service, but There are other protocols out there that can be used in place of RDP which are more efficient, such as Citrix's. Jim Sent from my iPhone On Nov 27, 2011, at 11:57 AM, jwcolby wrote: > Remote Desktop is tightly integrated with Windows. All the others are layered on top of Windows. Remote Desktop is indeed much much faster in most cases and I prefer RD whenever I can make that work. That is why I prefer Hamachi VPN when I can make that work. I have hard IPs and so I can use RD over Hamachi. Hamachi also allows you to browse network shares on the remote computer and even map network shares to local drive letters if you so desire. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 11:45 AM, Brad Marks wrote: >> All, >> >> Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. >> >> With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. >> In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. >> >> Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? >> >> I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. >> >> Brad > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 12:16:59 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 13:16:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED27E9B.4060704@colbyconsulting.com> I am not sure but RD only works over a VPN and with any vpn you can see and map remote shares. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 12:04 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Can you transfer files with remote desktop? > > I found that you can transfer files with Skype - very handy. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access > > And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very > easy to use however. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: >> Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." >> >> That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and >> installation. >> However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". >> I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Nov 27 12:44:01 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:44:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Message-ID: Hi Mark Nothing to be aware of. It offers this automatically the first time you access your account from a new machine, it is signed, and it's a simple Click-Next-Next install. >>> marksimms at verizon.net 27-11-2011 16:39 >>> Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and installation. However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Nov 27 12:54:31 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:54:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access Message-ID: Hi John No, you can let RDP through any network but only if the required ports are open. And that's exactly the trouble; if you are in control it is just to do it, but if some notwork guy is to be convinced he/she may be a show stopper. For good reasons you may say, because the default port of 3389 is one of those that scanners test so on a public network you should adjust RDP to use another port. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 27-11-2011 19:16 >>> I am not sure but RD only works over a VPN and with any vpn you can see and map remote shares. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 12:04 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Can you transfer files with remote desktop? > > I found that you can transfer files with Skype - very handy. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access > > And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very > easy to use however. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: >> Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." >> >> That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and >> installation. >> However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". >> I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 14:33:28 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:33:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F7B5F914EBB429C940DFD701E134E27@creativesystemdesigns.com> If your network person is concerned then he should put a secure VPN around the connections. (At one time, I worked with a network guy that was over the top with security and it took the manager to say either the consultant has remote connection by noon or you're gone.) There is no remote login system that is absolute 100 percent secure as it is just another open port that some bot can pound away at...for the next 100 years if automated. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access All, Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Gustav Brock Sent: Sun 11/27/2011 5:26 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Hi Brad and Mark It's more than just fine. It's excellent, and we set up the free version routinely on all workstations as my colleagues often work out of the house. Also, they often have dedicated workstations at clients where we install it too so these machines can be reached from our office (or home or other clients' locations). It can't be made easier to set up - takes a minute or so and works through any firewall and requires zero "special" things to be done. For more dedicated use, however, we do establish Remote Desktop to an in-house terminal server because of the local printing option. Some prefer TeamViewer which is excellent too. However, the free version is for "private use" only and we are reluctant to install such software for professional use. /gustav >>> marksimms at verizon.net 26-11-2011 23:25 >>> I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 14:37:20 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:37:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0129BF58E6474CBA950AFABC145037E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> That combo is definitely the best of all worlds and security as close to 100 percent as our universe allows...with 256-bit encryption. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Remote Desktop is tightly integrated with Windows. All the others are layered on top of Windows. Remote Desktop is indeed much much faster in most cases and I prefer RD whenever I can make that work. That is why I prefer Hamachi VPN when I can make that work. I have hard IPs and so I can use RD over Hamachi. Hamachi also allows you to browse network shares on the remote computer and even map network shares to local drive letters if you so desire. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 11:45 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. > > With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. > In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. > > Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? > > I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. > > Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 14:40:24 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:40:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: As far as I know, Skype will allow you copy files up to a certain sizes but RDP will allow you to stream files of any size and of course, it requires no client intervention. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:04 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access Can you transfer files with remote desktop? I found that you can transfer files with Skype - very handy. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very easy to use however. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." > > That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and > installation. > However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". > I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 14:43:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:43:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <0DD97455-0FDF-4932-8D0B-5490F9AAD5B4@verizon.net> References: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> <0DD97455-0FDF-4932-8D0B-5490F9AAD5B4@verizon.net> Message-ID: <93026C743025480B8B4A20812842F191@creativesystemdesigns.com> Microsoft bought its core Terminal service from Citrix and just removed features for the RDP on desktops. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access That's not as true as you might think. All run on top of terminal service, but There are other protocols out there that can be used in place of RDP which are more efficient, such as Citrix's. Jim Sent from my iPhone On Nov 27, 2011, at 11:57 AM, jwcolby wrote: > Remote Desktop is tightly integrated with Windows. All the others are layered on top of Windows. Remote Desktop is indeed much much faster in most cases and I prefer RD whenever I can make that work. That is why I prefer Hamachi VPN when I can make that work. I have hard IPs and so I can use RD over Hamachi. Hamachi also allows you to browse network shares on the remote computer and even map network shares to local drive letters if you so desire. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 11:45 AM, Brad Marks wrote: >> All, >> >> Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. >> >> With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. >> In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. >> >> Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? >> >> I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. >> >> Brad > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 17:00:51 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:00:51 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net>, <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ED2C123.2392.D50DEC0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I use it in much the same way as you. The main thing the Pro version does is let you sort within a fence automtically by name, date etc rather than having to arrange the icons individual by drag and drop. It guess it would be useful if you put "lots" of files in a fence, otherwise not a great benefit Apparently what Dan wants is to turn off the "automatic snap to grid" inside a fence and without that ability , he thinks that the application is worthless. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 8:39, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to do and > don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, Computer, and > drives shortcuts. > > Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets I use > often right from the desktop in another. > > A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. Another > fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm done working > on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their folder on comp 2. A > fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, Ghost, Lexmark Printer > stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. > > It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! > > But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no > value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little > miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic > features to be useful. > > So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have > to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air > conditioning, GPS etc. > > It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in > increased > convenience and comfort. > > But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and > give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. > > Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > > > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > > - at a 'small' price! > > > > Is it worth $9.95? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > > (Currently on "special" at > > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > > them where I want them. > > > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > > > Dan > > > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 27 17:02:11 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:02:11 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8A3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yeah, I paid for it as the free version has been so darn useful. I don't mind throwing a bit of cash when folks go ahead and make software that is so darn useful. Of course, your mileage may vary. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, 27 November 2011 2:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel - at a 'small' price! Is it worth $9.95? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sun Nov 27 17:03:37 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:03:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED2C123.2392.D50DEC0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net>, <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> <4ED2C123.2392.D50DEC0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001c01ccad58$cc20ca10$64625e30$@comcast.net> Hmmmmm - for me, yes. For you, no. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I use it in much the same way as you. The main thing the Pro version does is let you sort within a fence automtically by name, date etc rather than having to arrange the icons individual by drag and drop. It guess it would be useful if you put "lots" of files in a fence, otherwise not a great benefit Apparently what Dan wants is to turn off the "automatic snap to grid" inside a fence and without that ability , he thinks that the application is worthless. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 8:39, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to > do and don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, > Computer, and drives shortcuts. > > Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets > I use often right from the desktop in another. > > A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. > Another fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm > done working on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their > folder on comp 2. A fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, > Ghost, Lexmark Printer stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. > > It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that > makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman > > I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! > > But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is > of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I > get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which > doesn't have the basic features to be useful. > > So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll > have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air > conditioning, GPS etc. > > It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to > you in increased > convenience and comfort. > > But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop > and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. > > Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > > > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering > > wheel > > - at a 'small' price! > > > > Is it worth $9.95? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > > (Currently on "special" at > > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence > > > all the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I > > > want them where I want them. > > > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > > > Dan > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 27 17:04:46 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:04:46 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <005401ccacc0$5418ee00$fc4aca00$@gmail.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <005401ccacc0$5418ee00$fc4aca00$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8C0@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Bill, If you go via their site directly, you will see the sale price. Have a look here: <> and click on the Fences link. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Sunday, 27 November 2011 3:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as $19.95. I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be cycled through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different fences depending on the view selected. Is that possible? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 17:15:17 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:15:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8A3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net>, <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8A3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ED2C485.20949.D5E1328@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> When it only $10-20, I occassionally do the same. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 23:02, Darryl Collins wrote: > Yeah, I paid for it as the free version has been so darn useful. I > don't mind throwing a bit of cash when folks go ahead and make > software that is so darn useful. > > Of course, your mileage may vary. > > Cheers > Darryl > From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 19:27:02 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:27:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8C0@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <005401ccacc0$5418ee00$fc4aca00$@gmail.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8C0@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <001501ccad6c$d547afa0$7fd70ee0$@net> Isn't it just best to buy the whole object desktop suite for $50 ? I think that ICON developer is pretty slick. I tried with Photoshop to create my own PNG images for the Ribbon....and for command buttons.... And they really stunk....not very sharp. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > Bill, If you go via their site directly, you will see the sale price. > > Have a look here: <> and click on > the Fences link. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson > (VBACreations.Com) > Sent: Sunday, 27 November 2011 3:52 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it > as $19.95. > > I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be > cycled through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in > different fences depending on the view selected. > > Is that possible? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > the > > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them > where I > > want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 19:39:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:39:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net Message-ID: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the copy is very light. Is it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 19:57:12 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:57:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I don't know about paint.net, but with any decent image editor it is very easy to do. Even Irfanview allows you to easily manipulate the contrast, birghtness, saturation, gamma correction etc of an image. In fact that is probably the simplest tool you will find to do the job. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 20:39, jwcolby wrote: > I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the copy is very light. Is > it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW > increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 27 20:25:01 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 02:25:01 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE9F6@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yeah, in my experience MS Paint has to be the worst graphics tool I have ever had the mispleasure to (try) and use. It has never produce good results for me and always resulted in loss of quality. Irfanview on the other had is pretty solid and I use it to make icons etc. That said, I don't have the need to make Icons that often so a dedicated tool hasn't been on my radar. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, 28 November 2011 12:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paint.net I don't know about paint.net, but with any decent image editor it is very easy to do. Even Irfanview allows you to easily manipulate the contrast, birghtness, saturation, gamma correction etc of an image. In fact that is probably the simplest tool you will find to do the job. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 20:39, jwcolby wrote: > I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of > course the copy is very light. Is it possible to darken the washed > out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 20:36:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:36:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> Paint.Net looks like a nice program...I have never heard of it before. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the copy is very light. Is it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 21:20:35 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:20:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000001ccad7c$b25e3490$171a9db0$@net> Photoshop could do this one of two ways: 1) special filters 2) select pixels of an image based on a color range - it was very tricky to get it just right, but very powerful when it worked. There was a "fuzziness" setting that you had to work with trial-and-error. The key to this technique is the "washed out text" must be a distinguishable and somewhat unique color range. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:40 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net > > I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of > course the copy is very light. Is > it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also > darkening the background. IOW > increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more > black? > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 21:23:26 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:23:26 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com>, <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED2FEAE.7223.E414525@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I have it installed but have never really done much with it. I just checked it out. To answer JC's question: Yes - it's really simple in Paint.net. Go to Adjustments - Curves Make sure Luminosity is selected. Then click on various points on the straight line you see and drag it into some sort of S shape. A little experimentation with several points on the curve should give you what you want. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 18:36, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Paint.Net looks like a nice program...I have never heard of it before. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:40 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net > > I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the > copy is very light. Is > it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also > darkening the background. IOW > increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Sun Nov 27 21:23:59 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:23:59 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Yes, Jim. Paint.Net is very nice. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 3:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paint.net Paint.Net looks like a nice program...I have never heard of it before. Jim From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 27 21:53:34 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 03:53:34 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEAB4@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Ditto, but it looks very nice. We use GIMP at work, but this (at a glance) looks better. Nice one ! :) thanks. Will download and have a look. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, 28 November 2011 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paint.net Paint.Net looks like a nice program...I have never heard of it before. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the copy is very light. Is it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 23:38:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 00:38:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4ED31E41.806@colbyconsulting.com> I ended up doing it by reversing black and white, then pulling the brightness up to 100%, then flipping black and white again. I ended up with some speckles (copy crap) but the text itself ended up nice and dark. I tried just pulling the contrast and such but it pulled the background to a gray color. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 8:57 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I don't know about paint.net, but with any decent image editor it is very easy to do. > > Even Irfanview allows you to easily manipulate the contrast, birghtness, saturation, gamma > correction etc of an image. In fact that is probably the simplest tool you will find to do the > job. > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 23:44:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 00:44:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hard drives are starting to drop in price after the huge price jump from the floods. Message-ID: <4ED31FC1.2050809@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 23:44:53 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:44:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED31E41.806@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4ED31E41.806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED31FD5.8166.EC2C761@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You might like to try it again using "Curves" and compare the result for future reference. -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 0:38, jwcolby wrote: > I ended up doing it by reversing black and white, then pulling the brightness up to 100%, then > flipping black and white again. I ended up with some speckles (copy crap) but the text itself ended > up nice and dark. I tried just pulling the contrast and such but it pulled the background to a gray > color. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 8:57 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > I don't know about paint.net, but with any decent image editor it is very easy to do. > > > > Even Irfanview allows you to easily manipulate the contrast, birghtness, saturation, gamma > > correction etc of an image. In fact that is probably the simplest tool you will find to do the > > job. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 28 08:06:39 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:06:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hard drives are starting to drop in price after the huge price jump from the floods. In-Reply-To: <4ED31FC1.2050809@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED31FC1.2050809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <005f01ccadd6$f37995a0$da6cc0e0$@net> John - were the SSD's also affected, or only the rotational drives ? From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 28 08:51:32 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 06:51:32 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> FYI http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ 2862?tag=nl.e101 But the important thing is - what does this mean for us as Access developers? Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com Skype: rocky.smolin From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 28 09:56:28 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:56:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ > 2862?tag=nl.e101 From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 28 10:05:17 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 08:05:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind > ows-8/ > 2862?tag=nl.e101 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 28 10:15:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:15:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ED3B3B1.1060608@colbyconsulting.com> It certainly sounds like they are doing their homework on this one. It sure would be nice if they would build a VM that you could download and run under hyper-V. I have no interest in installing this native on any of my boxes. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > FYI > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ > 2862?tag=nl.e101 > > But the important thing is - what does this mean for us as Access > developers? > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > Skype: rocky.smolin > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 28 10:22:11 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:22:11 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Rocky and John et al Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ > 2862?tag=nl.e101 From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 28 10:28:39 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:28:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Rocky You probably will - as Windows 8 can run any modern Windows application - but to utilize the new top level tiled interface, you will need something like Visual Studio as Access in the view of MS is not a development environment, only an app with some fancy macro programming options (what is VBA?). /gustav >>> rockysmolin at bchacc.com 28-11-2011 17:05 >>> Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 10:55:31 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:55:31 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> Message-ID: Hi Rocky -- I suppose, you certainly will... -- Shamil 28 ?????? 2011, 20:06 ?? "Rocky Smolin" : > Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? > > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 > in a few years. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind > > ows-8/ > > 2862?tag=nl.e101 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 11:01:10 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:01:10 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) Thank you. -- Shamil 28 ?????? 2011, 20:19 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Rocky and John et al > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > /gustav > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ > > 2862?tag=nl.e101 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 28 11:27:14 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:27:14 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Shamil I've only played a little with it. Problem is that my machine at work still runs XP and that doesn't accept the Phone 7 developing environment. However, I _will_ get started on this ... and to get it going, next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia in programming these devices. Our phones are Samsung Omnia7 with WP7 which should be able to upgrade to 7.5 soon. /gustav >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:01 >>> Hi Gustav -- I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) Thank you. -- Shamil 28 ?????? 2011, 20:19 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Rocky and John et al > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > /gustav > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 11:40:59 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:40:59 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- > next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia > in programming these devices Good news! If you'll have opportunity to take brief notes on that course and share that notes here that would be very useful - just notes on what should be taken into consideration first of all when doing WP 7/7.5 development.... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I have just played a bit with my kid Samsung Galaxy Fit Android device (never had opportunity before to touch/play with Android devices or iPhones -I was very before several years in a row :)) - that Android technology is a very useful thing, no doubt - *now* this world is becoming really connected - would that help this World nations to understand better each other? - let's hope so... 28 ?????? 2011, 21:24 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > I've only played a little with it. Problem is that my machine at work still runs XP and that doesn't accept the Phone 7 developing environment. > However, I _will_ get started on this ... and to get it going, next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia in programming these devices. > > Our phones are Samsung Omnia7 with WP7 which should be able to upgrade to 7.5 soon. > > /gustav > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:01 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 28 ?????? 2011, 20:19 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 28 11:57:23 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:57:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Shamil With the limited amount of time available I've decided to stay off Android and iPhone and concentrate on WP7. Yes I know - lots of those units out there - but you have to focus. As for connecting the World, I think we've seen a lot of this during the last half year of so - for example, how the news from North Africa have spread all over within the hour. Smart phones do play a role as they always are at hand (literally) /gustav >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:40 >>> Hi Gustav -- > next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia > in programming these devices Good news! If you'll have opportunity to take brief notes on that course and share that notes here that would be very useful - just notes on what should be taken into consideration first of all when doing WP 7/7.5 development.... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I have just played a bit with my kid Samsung Galaxy Fit Android device (never had opportunity before to touch/play with Android devices or iPhones -I was very before several years in a row :)) - that Android technology is a very useful thing, no doubt - *now* this world is becoming really connected - would that help this World nations to understand better each other? - let's hope so... 28 ****** 2011, 21:24 ** "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > I've only played a little with it. Problem is that my machine at work still runs XP and that doesn't accept the Phone 7 developing environment. > However, I _will_ get started on this ... and to get it going, next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia in programming these devices. > > Our phones are Samsung Omnia7 with WP7 which should be able to upgrade to 7.5 soon. > > /gustav > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:01 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 28 ****** 2011, 20:19 ** "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 12:37:42 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:37:42 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- Yes, I also currently do not plan to make Andorid or iPhone development - I have just played with my kid Android device to see what it does, and it does a lot of useful things - Google, Gmail, GoogleTalk, GoogleMaps, .... "at your fingertips" - just name the few ... Now, "fresh with that experience" I will see what WP 7.5 will have to propose me (as a customer) - currently Android device looks very attractive and the "Google vs. MS smart-phones technology battle" promise to be very interesting... Re: connected world - yes, it all starts now - lets' hope it will be driven by goodwill not by George Orwell's "oligarchical dictatorship of the Parties" one of which "United Russia" (still in rather embryonic state but anyway horrible) I'm "happy" to witness here in Russia nowadays... Thank you. -- Shamil 28 ?????? 2011, 21:54 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > With the limited amount of time available I've decided to stay off Android and iPhone and concentrate on WP7. Yes I know - lots of those units out there - but you have to focus. > > As for connecting the World, I think we've seen a lot of this during the last half year of so - for example, how the news from North Africa have spread all over within the hour. Smart phones do play a role as they always are at hand (literally) > > /gustav > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:40 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > > next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia > > in programming these devices > Good news! If you'll have opportunity to take brief notes on that course and share that notes here that would be very useful - just notes on what should be taken into consideration first of all when doing WP 7/7.5 development.... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > P.S. I have just played a bit with my kid Samsung Galaxy Fit Android device (never had opportunity before to touch/play with Android devices or iPhones -I was very before several years in a row :)) - that Android technology is a very useful thing, no doubt - *now* this world is becoming really connected - would that help this World nations to understand better each other? - let's hope so... > > 28 ****** 2011, 21:24 ** "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Shamil > > > > I've only played a little with it. Problem is that my machine at work still runs XP and that doesn't accept the Phone 7 developing environment. > > However, I _will_ get started on this ... and to get it going, next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia in programming these devices. > > > > Our phones are Samsung Omnia7 with WP7 which should be able to upgrade to 7.5 soon. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:01 >>> > > Hi Gustav -- > > > > I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 28 ****** 2011, 20:19 ** "Gustav Brock" : > > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 28 15:45:06 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:45:06 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007>, <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com>, <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ED400E2.16834.1231DFF1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> At this stage Windows 8 is two different OSs as far as developers are concerned: 1. Desktop Windows 2. Tablet Windows You will need to develop for one of the other. They use different UI paradigms They use different APIs They use different development tools. They will frequently run on different processors - dekstop native code will not be cross-compatible - so if you build a complied to run on an Intel desktop, it will not run on an ARM tablet Note that every one of the listed things is about tablets and "uers apps". I don't see business-centric, data intensive applications running on a metro interface or a tablet for a long time to come. With Windows 8 in a business environment, users will switch on, log in, click oon the Desktop Icon and then function the way they do now. They only part of Metro they will see on this work PC will be the logon screen. It may be the next great thing if developers and users go for it and it makes huge inroads in the mobile market. Or it may be the death knell for Microsoft as an OS selller - You could be looking at a massive shift to Android/Linux in the next few years if it doesn't go down well in the marketplace. -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 8:05, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 > in a few years. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind > > ows-8/ > > 2862?tag=nl.e101 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 28 16:10:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:10:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Rocky and John et al > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ >> 2862?tag=nl.e101 > > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 28 16:36:46 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:36:46 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED14@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> I would also ask if 'touch' is better. Period. Sure it has a kinda ubercoolness about it and for tablets it makes sense. Even so, I still love the buttons on my older iPod as I can skip tracks etc by feel only, never needing to take my eyes off the road (or whatever). Not so easy to do on a touch set up. So for a device where you are consuming media, touch is probably good, but for me, where I am making stuff the sheer speed and power of the mouse keyboard combo seems hard to beat. Maybe I am just an old monkey struggling to learn new tricks. One thing I will say about those smart phones that really sucks is their battery life. My 2004 Nokia 6600 (which is still in regular use today) is still powering on a single charge for up to 6 days. My wife's HTC needs charging every night. This is not a diss at HTC, all the smart phones are like that. One days use (even on standby) and you need to find a power outlet. Plurk. Batteries are still the weak link. Just my musings. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Rocky and John et al > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-win >> dows-8/ >> 2862?tag=nl.e101 > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 28 16:40:57 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:40:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And retrofitting all of my systems is a > non-starter. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > > tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > > screens, and video boards. > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 28 17:01:45 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:01:45 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > > tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > > screens, and video boards. > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 28 17:22:13 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:22:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED400E2.16834.1231DFF1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> <4ED400E2.16834.1231DFF1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Not to be a nay-sayer, but my two cents: if Facebook is planning to release a phone and Blackberry is dying, it suggests to me that the overall market is already saturated and that WP7 is dead on arrival. Maybe Microsoft will be able to capture a few percent. It would seem to me that developing outside the Android and iPhone platforms is a big risk to take, unless you have a very niche market? - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-28, at 1:45 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > At this stage Windows 8 is two different OSs as far as developers are concerned: > > 1. Desktop Windows > 2. Tablet Windows > > You will need to develop for one of the other. > They use different UI paradigms > They use different APIs > They use different development tools. > > They will frequently run on different processors - dekstop native code will not be > cross-compatible - so if you build a complied to run on an Intel desktop, it will not run on an > ARM tablet > > Note that every one of the listed things is about tablets and "uers apps". > > I don't see business-centric, data intensive applications running on a metro interface or a > tablet for a long time to come. With Windows 8 in a business environment, users will switch > on, log in, click oon the Desktop Icon and then function the way they do now. They only part > of Metro they will see on this work PC will be the logon screen. > > It may be the next great thing if developers and users go for it and it makes huge inroads in > the mobile market. > > Or it may be the death knell for Microsoft as an OS selller - You could be looking at a > massive shift to Android/Linux in the next few years if it doesn't go down well in the > marketplace. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 28 Nov 2011 at 8:05, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >> >> For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 >> in a few years. >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind >>> ows-8/ >>> 2862?tag=nl.e101 >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 28 17:25:39 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:25:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <697A31B1-2823-41F6-B3E7-A223DA808EC4@phulse.com> Not to mention, accidents with monitors falling off the back of the desk. :) - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-28, at 3:01 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? > > Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. > > -- > Stuart > > On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > >> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>> >>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>> >>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>> screens, and video boards. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 18:25:39 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 04:25:39 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: , <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Darryl -- Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... Thank you. -- Shamil 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins : > Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? > > Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. > > -- > Stuart > > On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > > > Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > > retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > > Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > > > tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > > > screens, and video boards. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 28 18:28:39 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:28:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that "other venture"... which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. His track record is not that good. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 28 19:08:45 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:08:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, Message-ID: <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the fine resolution of a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel precision with a fingertip? On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Darryl -- > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 28 19:10:04 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:10:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> References: , <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> Message-ID: <4ED430EC.10726.12ED88F0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It's just as likely to be: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be the Windows killer". -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 19:28, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" > > Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. > It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that "other > venture"... > which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. > > On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! > Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. > His track record is not that good. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 28 19:49:01 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:49:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> References: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> Message-ID: <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> The only way that Microsoft can produce an iPad killer is if they manage to somehow completely bridge the gap between different types of users with an intuitive UI. I am pleasantly surprised to see how much my own non-technical father has taken to his iPad. He thinks its brilliant and now he's hooked using it all the time for Skype, emailing, viewing family photos and reading the news etc, but now and again he still asks me how something is done rather than experimenting himself. Not as much with a normal desktop computer and maybe this is really due to the conditioning that comes with decades of using Windows on the desktop, but even I can see there are still some rough edges on (even) the iPad that make it so it isn't always evident what button to press or what the result of your interaction will be. With Android, this is even worse. If Microsoft can somehow manage to create a UI interface where any type of user can feel completely natural using it, then Microsoft may in fact have an iPad killer. My feeling is that they won't be able to. As far as I am aware (and please correct me if I am wrong), they are only just making it more complicated by laying the Metro UI on top of a regular Windows desktop. And, if they can't, well, I cannot see how they can possibly be any sort of "something"-killer, unless they compete for the sub-$200 market undercutting the Kindle Fire (which unlikely, given hardware requirements for Windows). I'm not sure this is what regular consumers want and that this is just more or less the same as Microsofts previously failed tablet offerings prior to the iPad. We shall see how things play out. - Hans On 2011-11-28, at 4:28 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" > > Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. > It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that "other > venture"... > which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. > > On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! > Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. > His track record is not that good. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 28 20:02:30 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 02:02:30 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> References: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yeah, I see them as two totally different markets. Many folks love and buy apple products as they don't have to worry about tweaking anything to make things function. This comes at a cost of course (both money and function), but for many consumers they either don't know about the costs or more likely care. I guess it is part of a product maturing in some ways. Back in the 60's when you purchased a car it was quite normal for you to do a lot of the maintenance yourself. The car would even come with a full workshop manual and often some basic tool kits as well. Compare that to these days were most folks call roadside assist to change a tyre and would never look under the bonnet - ever. I see the iThings a bit like that. Most folks don't care about the loss of flexibility or even creating stuff on the PC. They just want to access media, browse the web and get info via apps etc. And for the that the iPad is brilliant. Andriod is more flexible, but people don't want choices, they want something that works without any intervention from them. ... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 12:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 The only way that Microsoft can produce an iPad killer is if they manage to somehow completely bridge the gap between different types of users with an intuitive UI. I am pleasantly surprised to see how much my own non-technical father has taken to his iPad. He thinks its brilliant and now he's hooked using it all the time for Skype, emailing, viewing family photos and reading the news etc, but now and again he still asks me how something is done rather than experimenting himself. Not as much with a normal desktop computer and maybe this is really due to the conditioning that comes with decades of using Windows on the desktop, but even I can see there are still some rough edges on (even) the iPad that make it so it isn't always evident what button to press or what the result of your interaction will be. With Android, this is even worse. If Microsoft can somehow manage to create a UI interface where any type of user can feel completely natural using it, then Microsoft may in fact have an iPad killer. My feeling is that they won't be able to. As far as I am aware (and please correct me if I am wrong), they are only just making it more complicated by laying the Metro UI on top of a regular Windows desktop. And, if they can't, well, I cannot see how they can possibly be any sort of "something"-killer, unless they compete for the sub-$200 market undercutting the Kindle Fire (which unlikely, given hardware requirements for Windows). I'm not sure this is what regular consumers want and that this is just more or less the same as Microsofts previously failed tablet offerings prior to the iPad. We shall see how things play out. - Hans On 2011-11-28, at 4:28 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" > > Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. > It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that > "other venture"... > which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. > > On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! > Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. > His track record is not that good. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 28 21:12:33 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:12:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <003c01ccae44$bd6258d0$38270a70$@net> Then again, that's the way it's ALWAYS BEEN. Users can't tell you how to build a great app or interface.... They just know it when they see it....and use it. No reason Balmer & Company can't pull off an Ipad killer. No reason at all except for laziness or stupidity. In fact, if I were Balmer, I'd have a hundred posters printed with a picture of an Ipad being smashed with a sledgehammer that had a Windows 8 logo on it. Put em in all of the development rooms. Finally, I've been impressed with Samsung....they've got good quality devices at a fair price. Heck, a merger of MSFT and Samsung would give Apple the "willies". >.Most folks don't care about the loss of > flexibility or even creating stuff on the PC. They just want to access > media, browse the web and get info via apps etc. And for the that the > iPad is brilliant. Andriod is more flexible, but people don't want > choices, they want something that works without any intervention from > them. From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 28 21:24:16 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:24:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Perhaps you are onto something, Darryl. And perhaps Microsoft is merely trying to target corporate in the hopes they will turn away from iPads and Android tablets in favour of the familiar. But it's not very adventuresome of them, you have to admit. - Hans On 2011-11-28, at 6:02 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Yeah, I see them as two totally different markets. Many folks love and buy apple products as they don't have to worry about tweaking anything to make things function. This comes at a cost of course (both money and function), but for many consumers they either don't know about the costs or more likely care. > > I guess it is part of a product maturing in some ways. Back in the 60's when you purchased a car it was quite normal for you to do a lot of the maintenance yourself. The car would even come with a full workshop manual and often some basic tool kits as well. > > Compare that to these days were most folks call roadside assist to change a tyre and would never look under the bonnet - ever. I see the iThings a bit like that. Most folks don't care about the loss of flexibility or even creating stuff on the PC. They just want to access media, browse the web and get info via apps etc. And for the that the iPad is brilliant. Andriod is more flexible, but people don't want choices, they want something that works without any intervention from them. > > ... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 12:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > The only way that Microsoft can produce an iPad killer is if they manage to somehow completely bridge the gap between different types of users with an intuitive UI. I am pleasantly surprised to see how much my own non-technical father has taken to his iPad. He thinks its brilliant and now he's hooked using it all the time for Skype, emailing, viewing family photos and reading the news etc, but now and again he still asks me how something is done rather than experimenting himself. Not as much with a normal desktop computer and maybe this is really due to the conditioning that comes with decades of using Windows on the desktop, but even I can see there are still some rough edges on (even) the iPad that make it so it isn't always evident what button to press or what the result of your interaction will be. > > With Android, this is even worse. > > If Microsoft can somehow manage to create a UI interface where any type of user can feel completely natural using it, then Microsoft may in fact have an iPad killer. My feeling is that they won't be able to. As far as I am aware (and please correct me if I am wrong), they are only just making it more complicated by laying the Metro UI on top of a regular Windows desktop. And, if they can't, well, I cannot see how they can possibly be any sort of "something"-killer, unless they compete for the sub-$200 market undercutting the Kindle Fire (which unlikely, given hardware requirements for Windows). > > I'm not sure this is what regular consumers want and that this is just more or less the same as Microsofts previously failed tablet offerings prior to the iPad. > > We shall see how things play out. > > - Hans > > > > > On 2011-11-28, at 4:28 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" >> >> Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. >> It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that >> "other venture"... >> which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. >> >> On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! >> Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. >> His track record is not that good. >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 28 21:41:44 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:41:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid has wonderful voice recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming I pretty much type 99% the same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my computer is something that is close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Darryl -- > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins: >> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >> >> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? >> >> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. >> >> -- >> Stuart >> >> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >> >>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>> >>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>> >>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>>> screens, and video boards. >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Nov 29 01:22:40 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:22:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> <4ED400E2.16834.1231DFF1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <609ADEFEF4F042F892610C05988FEE0A@creativesystemdesigns.com> I would concur...I would consider myself a Windows fan but I have to also be practical. If Windows is widely and heartily adopted then it will get more of my attention...but at this moment, odds do not look good. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 3:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Not to be a nay-sayer, but my two cents: if Facebook is planning to release a phone and Blackberry is dying, it suggests to me that the overall market is already saturated and that WP7 is dead on arrival. Maybe Microsoft will be able to capture a few percent. It would seem to me that developing outside the Android and iPhone platforms is a big risk to take, unless you have a very niche market? - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-28, at 1:45 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > At this stage Windows 8 is two different OSs as far as developers are concerned: > > 1. Desktop Windows > 2. Tablet Windows > > You will need to develop for one of the other. > They use different UI paradigms > They use different APIs > They use different development tools. > > They will frequently run on different processors - dekstop native code will not be > cross-compatible - so if you build a complied to run on an Intel desktop, it will not run on an > ARM tablet > > Note that every one of the listed things is about tablets and "uers apps". > > I don't see business-centric, data intensive applications running on a metro interface or a > tablet for a long time to come. With Windows 8 in a business environment, users will switch > on, log in, click oon the Desktop Icon and then function the way they do now. They only part > of Metro they will see on this work PC will be the logon screen. > > It may be the next great thing if developers and users go for it and it makes huge inroads in > the mobile market. > > Or it may be the death knell for Microsoft as an OS selller - You could be looking at a > massive shift to Android/Linux in the next few years if it doesn't go down well in the > marketplace. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 28 Nov 2011 at 8:05, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >> >> For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 >> in a few years. >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind >>> ows-8/ >>> 2862?tag=nl.e101 >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Nov 29 01:26:20 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:26:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <6F72D2FEBC464D60B6B7FFF2D2DDACE5@creativesystemdesigns.com> I think that what happens when you don't do your backups and the system crashes and then everything you lost is a virtual document. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 5:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the fine resolution of a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel precision with a fingertip? On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Darryl -- > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Nov 29 02:27:54 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:27:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Mark That's exactly what I see when people use the Windows Phone - they understand it right away because of the simplicity and the superior graphic design - including a perfect font and beautiful ring tones made by musicians (my favourite is 19 Bell which is a pure joy to listen to). MSFT has been lazy and stupid at many occasions through the years but the Metro project is the opposite; a master-piece in visual design and use, only possible by hard work from a team of highly skilled people with 100% backup from the management. This is why I say "don't ever underestimate MSFT". Just watch the videos about the Metro design (links published here several times). It takes some courage to dismount all the useless 3D-stuff - which have gone too far - and return to 2D. /gustav >>> marksimms at verizon.net 29-11-2011 04:12 >>> Then again, that's the way it's ALWAYS BEEN. Users can't tell you how to build a great app or interface.... They just know it when they see it....and use it. No reason Balmer & Company can't pull off an Ipad killer. No reason at all except for laziness or stupidity. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 29 03:51:42 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:51:42 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- > This is why I say "don't ever underestimate MSFT". Yes: http://www.insearchofstupidity.com/ -- Shamil 29 ?????? 2011, 12:25 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Mark > > That's exactly what I see when people use the Windows Phone - they understand it right away because of the simplicity and the superior graphic design - including a perfect font and beautiful ring tones made by musicians (my favourite is 19 Bell which is a pure joy to listen to). > > MSFT has been lazy and stupid at many occasions through the years but the Metro project is the opposite; a master-piece in visual design and use, only possible by hard work from a team of highly skilled people with 100% backup from the management. This is why I say "don't ever underestimate MSFT". Just watch the videos about the Metro design (links published here several times). It takes some courage to dismount all the useless 3D-stuff - which have gone too far - and return to 2D. > > /gustav > > >>> marksimms at verizon.net 29-11-2011 04:12 >>> > Then again, that's the way it's ALWAYS BEEN. Users can't tell you how to > build a great app or interface.... > They just know it when they see it....and use it. > No reason Balmer & Company can't pull off an Ipad killer. > No reason at all except for laziness or stupidity. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 29 03:55:10 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:55:10 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John -- Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how I will be able to do that effectively :) -- Shamil 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : > Shamil, > > Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid has wonderful voice > recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming I pretty much type 99% the > same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my computer is something that is > close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Darryl -- > > > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins: > >> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) > >> > >> Cheers > >> Darryl. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > >> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > >> > >> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? > >> > >> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. > >> > >> -- > >> Stuart > >> > >> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > >> > >>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > >>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > >>> > >>> John W. Colby > >>> Colby Consulting > >>> > >>> Reality is what refuses to go away > >>> when you do not believe in it > >>> > >>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > >>>> Hi Rocky and John et al > >>>> > >>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > >>>> > >>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > >>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > >>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > >>>> screens, and video boards. > >>>> > >>>> /gustav > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 29 03:58:35 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:58:35 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart -- I mainly mean "shuffling" virtual documents by hands, getting/putting them into "folders" etc. Pixel precision cursor location with fingertip(s) will be done by using special virtual "pointing" assistants... Thank you. -- Shamil 29 ?????? 2011, 05:10 ?? "Stuart McLachlan" : > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the fine resolution of > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel precision with a > fingertip? > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Darryl -- > > > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Nov 29 07:52:47 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:52:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> Stuart, I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point with touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very powerful thing. Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is buttons. Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where consumer electronics is going. When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on a keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with your finger). Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. I need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. And not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard built into the desktop. As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you make them larger then the text they display; why is that? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the fine resolution of a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel precision with a fingertip? On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Darryl -- > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Nov 29 08:41:23 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:41:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sub Query Assistance Requested Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F705B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I have the following query that works correctly returning a result of 8 SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count] FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))); I would also like to return the field EngArea from the table [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] also. Would that be possible and if so how? My attempts so far have failed. Result should be something like this Active Flowing Count EngArea 3 1 1 2 4 3 Thanks. Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 10:01:02 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:01:02 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et al!! Charlotte Foust On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi John -- > > Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how > I will be able to do that effectively :) > > -- Shamil > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : > > Shamil, > > > > Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid > has wonderful voice > > recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming > I pretty much type 99% the > > same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my > computer is something that is > > close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Darryl -- > > > > > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > > > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > > > > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< > darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: > > >> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use > these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large > monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving > my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things > happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily > angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the > issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More > cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate > finger prints on my screens!! ;) > > >> > > >> Cheers > > >> Darryl. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > >> > > >> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a > business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database > application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your > fingertips? > > >> > > >> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a > tough time. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Stuart > > >> > > >> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > > >> > > >>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > > >>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > > >>> > > >>> John W. Colby > > >>> Colby Consulting > > >>> > > >>> Reality is what refuses to go away > > >>> when you do not believe in it > > >>> > > >>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > >>>> Hi Rocky and John et al > > >>>> > > >>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, > Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > >>>> > > >>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > >>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > > >>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > > >>>> screens, and video boards. > > >>>> > > >>>> /gustav > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >> > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Nov 29 10:25:00 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:25:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <77E871AEBCC748BE817DF91D22CCC36A@HAL9007> Phonetic Punctuation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF4qii8S3gw Classic R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 8:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et al!! Charlotte Foust On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi John -- > > Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine > how I will be able to do that effectively :) > > -- Shamil > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : > > Shamil, > > > > Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My > > Droid > has wonderful voice > > recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am > > programming > I pretty much type 99% the > > same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to > > my > computer is something that is > > close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Darryl -- > > > > > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > > > multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > > > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally > > > mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > > > > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< > darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: > > >> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices > > >> use > these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 > large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to > be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to > make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is > flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that > - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling > lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell > I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) > > >> > > >> Cheers > > >> Darryl. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > >> > > >> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in > > >> a > business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database > application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at > your fingertips? > > >> > > >> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a > tough time. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Stuart > > >> > > >> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > > >> > > >>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > > >>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > > >>> > > >>> John W. Colby > > >>> Colby Consulting > > >>> > > >>> Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > >>> > > >>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > >>>> Hi Rocky and John et al > > >>>> > > >>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, > Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > >>>> > > >>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > >>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone > > >>>> through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV > > >>>> monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > >>>> > > >>>> /gustav > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >> > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 29 13:47:21 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:47:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> Haha I remember that one. A true classic. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-29, at 8:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a > phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer > spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et > al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving >> my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things >> happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily >> angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More >> cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate >> finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database >> application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>>>>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>>>>>> screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 13:52:35 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:52:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Sub Query Assistance Requested In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F705B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F705B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: Chester, Try SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count],EngArea FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID, EngArea FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))) Group by EngArea; On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Kaup, Chester < Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com> wrote: > I have the following query that works correctly returning a result of 8 > > SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count] > FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID > FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A > WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))); > > I would also like to return the field EngArea from the table > [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] also. Would that be possible and if so > how? My attempts so far have failed. > > Result should be something like this > Active Flowing Count EngArea > 3 1 > 1 2 > 4 3 > > Thanks. > > Chester Kaup > Engineering Technician > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > Office (432) 688-3797 > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Nov 29 14:36:38 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:36:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians In-Reply-To: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> Message-ID: <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> And he made you laugh without using a single word of profanity, use of anything off-topic, and he didn't degrade or disrespect any member of the audience. Where have all the great comedians gone? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 02:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Haha I remember that one. A true classic. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-29, at 8:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a > phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer > spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et > al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving >> my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things >> happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily >> angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More >> cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate >> finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database >> application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>>>>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>>>>>> screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 29 16:03:27 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:03:27 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> References: , <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com>, <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> Message-ID: <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic http://goo.gl/KtZIE From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Nov 29 16:14:35 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:14:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sub Query Assistance Requested In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F705B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F722C@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Thanks. Perfect. That got it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack drawbridge Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 1:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Sub Query Assistance Requested Chester, Try SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count],EngArea FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID, EngArea FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))) Group by EngArea; On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Kaup, Chester < Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com> wrote: > I have the following query that works correctly returning a result of 8 > > SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count] > FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID > FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A > WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))); > > I would also like to return the field EngArea from the table > [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] also. Would that be possible and if so > how? My attempts so far have failed. > > Result should be something like this > Active Flowing Count EngArea > 3 1 > 1 2 > 4 3 > > Thanks. > > Chester Kaup > Engineering Technician > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > Office (432) 688-3797 > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Tue Nov 29 16:30:25 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:30:25 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians In-Reply-To: <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> Message-ID: <003701ccaee6$7eee7690$7ccb63b0$@activebilling.com.au> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF4qii8S3gw very clever -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, 30 November 2011 7:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians And he made you laugh without using a single word of profanity, use of anything off-topic, and he didn't degrade or disrespect any member of the audience. Where have all the great comedians gone? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 02:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Haha I remember that one. A true classic. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-29, at 8:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had > a phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a > programmer spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, > etc., for C# et al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently >> imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My >>> Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am >>> programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to >>> my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on >>>> multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating >> with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices >>>>> use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be >> waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make >> things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter >> or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and >> then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. >> More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. >> Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or >> database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard >> and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone >>>>>>> through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV >>>>>>> monitors, table screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Nov 29 17:21:37 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:21:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com>, <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> PowerBasic is quite a powerful package. It's incredibly important to see that given the other dev environments...dot-net, java, Ruby, php, etc.... It has never gained "traction". From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Nov 29 18:59:27 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:59:27 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians In-Reply-To: <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com><72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> Message-ID: <8D0568C0EFD64420B49534A890FB856C@HAL9007> Nowhere. They're all on You Tube. :) R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians And he made you laugh without using a single word of profanity, use of anything off-topic, and he didn't degrade or disrespect any member of the audience. Where have all the great comedians gone? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 02:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Haha I remember that one. A true classic. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-29, at 8:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had > a phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a > programmer spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, > etc., for C# et al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently >> imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My >>> Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am >>> programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to >>> my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on >>>> multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating >> with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices >>>>> use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be >> waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make >> things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter >> or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and >> then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. >> More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. >> Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or >> database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard >> and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone >>>>>>> through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV >>>>>>> monitors, table screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 06:03:43 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:03:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <6F72D2FEBC464D60B6B7FFF2D2DDACE5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6F72D2FEBC464D60B6B7FFF2D2DDACE5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED61B9F.1070106@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL. Best whacky definition I have seen in ages. Virtual documents: What happens when the system dies and you have no backups John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 2:26 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I think that what happens when you don't do your backups and the system > crashes and then everything you lost is a virtual document. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 5:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > fine resolution of > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > precision with a > fingertip? > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Darryl -- >> >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >> >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 06:29:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:29:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> Message-ID: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you really need that? No. One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point with > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very powerful > thing. > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is buttons. > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > consumer electronics is going. > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on a > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with your > finger). > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. I > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. And > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > keyboard on a touch screen. > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > built into the desktop. > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you make > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > fine resolution of > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > precision with a > fingertip? > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Darryl -- >> >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >> >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 06:32:56 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:32:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED62278.3040000@colbyconsulting.com> You laugh but this is already happening. People with disabilities who cannot speak normally can train their computers to recognize whatever their "equivalent" sound may be to mean a word or phrase. Thus you could indeed make up your own sound for a curly bracket or open paren or whatever. Remember the star treck movie where scotty picks up the mouse and tries to speak into it? Ignoring for a moment why he would even have a concept of a microphone that you had to pick up and hold to your face to speak into... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 11:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a > phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer > spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et > al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby: >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving >> my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things >> happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily >> angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More >> cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate >> finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database >> application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>>>>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>>>>>> screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 06:43:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:43:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com>, <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) You do? I never realized! ;) John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > > Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > > http://goo.gl/KtZIE > > From steve at goodhall.info Wed Nov 30 07:50:44 2011 From: steve at goodhall.info (Steve Goodhall) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:50:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a matter of scaling. Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP -----Original message----- From: jwcolby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you really need that? No. One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point with > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very powerful > thing. > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is buttons. > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > consumer electronics is going. > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on a > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with your > finger). > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. I > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. And > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > keyboard on a touch screen. > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > built into the desktop. > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you make > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > fine resolution of > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > precision with a > fingertip? > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Darryl -- >> >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >> >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 08:07:29 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:07:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, Message-ID: <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another > keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > > keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Nov 30 09:12:17 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:12:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another > keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > > keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 30 09:25:20 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:25:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> References: , <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com>, <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> Message-ID: <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. Web Development ? Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or Desktop development. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 09:55:20 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:55:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> Message-ID: I use align a lot by rubber banding controls and align horizontal, vertical, equal spacing, etc. That's because there's no magnify in design view which I really wish there was. Would make things so much easier. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From steve at goodhall.info Wed Nov 30 10:16:26 2011 From: steve at goodhall.info (Steve Goodhall) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:16:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> Message-ID: <396fba1e-c77d-484e-b69b-3436da4be89b@blur> Wouldn't it be easier just to set the Left, Top, Width and Height properties either manually or programmatically? I do this all the time in other languages. It's generally what .NET does with your designer settings anyway. Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP -----Original message----- From: Rocky Smolin To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 15:56:59 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 I use align a lot by rubber banding controls and align horizontal, vertical, equal spacing, etc. That's because there's no magnify in design view which I really wish there was. Would make things so much easier. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 10:26:21 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:26:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <396fba1e-c77d-484e-b69b-3436da4be89b@blur> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <396fba1e-c77d-484e-b69b-3436da4be89b@blur> Message-ID: Oh, I do that a lot as well. If I've put half a dozen buttons on a form or a bunch of text boxes and want to make them all the same width, I pick the one I like best, copy its width property, rubber band the rest and past. I use keyboard shortcuts for aligning though and it goes real fast. Alt-OAT aligns to top. Alt-OZE spaces equally horizontally, etc. I'm a mouseophobe. The less I use it the happier I am. It slows things down. And I use alt-Tab to toggle between design view and code. The one thing I'd like is a shortcut that would move the focus from the property sheet back to the form or report being designed. When I click on an event to create or edit the event module, then alt-Tab back to the form or report, the property sheet still has the focus. I have to click outside the property sheet - means using the mouse. A keyboard shortcut to do that would be nice. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com Skype: rocky.smolin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Goodhall Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Wouldn't it be easier just to set the Left, Top, Width and Height properties either manually or programmatically? I do this all the time in other languages. It's generally what .NET does with your designer settings anyway. Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP -----Original message----- From: Rocky Smolin To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 15:56:59 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 I use align a lot by rubber banding controls and align horizontal, vertical, equal spacing, etc. That's because there's no magnify in design view which I really wish there was. Would make things so much easier. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 10:38:22 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:38:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> Message-ID: <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another > keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > > keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 11:08:47 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:08:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. Doug On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) >> >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic >> >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE >> >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 11:12:43 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:12:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> Message-ID: <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Mark: Some people believe that Cloud development will do exact that. Steve Jobs went so far as to announce, "The PC is dead." The understanding is that there will be no need for desktop type computers as where ever you go all you data and work capability will travel with you. All you will need is a dumb terminal like an iPad and you can go anywhere. Within major centers this scenario can work but once into the rural areas the desktop is still king and will be for the foreseeable future. This may very well be why Windows 8 was created with two UIs. One, when you are downtown and one when you are further out in the community. The Cloud is great as a remote hard drive, development platform and application host and coupled with full communication to the internet it is a potent back-end. For me the whole Cloud scenario is great but if I drive 20 miles, out of town, an iPad is almost useless, as internet communication and cell phone coverage is spotty at best and I had better have my laptop ready if I want to work with my office or programming applications...even if I am developing for the Cloud or Smartphones. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. Web Development ? Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or Desktop development. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 11:27:55 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:27:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com><4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> Sometimes the grid it too coarse to get the controls exactly where I want them. But again I use the keyboard - ctrl with an arrow nudges the control - and holding it down moves it continuously. I use that a lot. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Nov 30 11:34:11 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:34:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Aligning Controls (was: Windows 8) Message-ID: <002301ccaf86$460653c0$d212fb40$@comcast.net> I made a custom toolbar with the four alignment buttons. Very handy. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 11:35:44 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:35:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Don't you have swype available, John? It's in the Android OS, and I couldn't live without it. When I have to work with the virtual keyboard on my Nook ereader, I get very frustrated having to tap each letter separately! Charlotte Foust On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:29 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do > you really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or special > characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat fingertip to get > at a specific character to back space over... > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > >> Stuart, >> >> I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point >> with >> touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very >> powerful >> thing. >> >> Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. >> Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. >> >> I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's >> fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is >> buttons. >> Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, >> hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it >> will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. >> >> Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. >> Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function >> displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their >> function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where >> consumer electronics is going. >> >> When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on >> a >> keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with >> your >> finger). >> >> Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. >> I >> need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this >> emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. >> And >> not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really >> important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual >> keyboard on a touch screen. >> >> Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard >> built into the desktop. >> >> As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you >> really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only >> worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not >> getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you >> make >> them larger then the text they display; why is that? >> >> Jim. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com] >> On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM >> >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >> >> What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. >> >> If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the >> fine resolution of >> a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel >> precision with a >> fingertip? >> >> >> On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >> Darryl -- >>> >>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >>> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >>> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >>> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >>> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>> >>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >>> >> communication with them... >> >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 11:36:56 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:36:56 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Before I started developing Android apps in Eclipse, I was using appInventor, an online web development IDE. I hated it at first, the fact that you needed to be online to develop. I really miss it now that I am developing in Eclipse. I have to remember to back up the project to thumb drive to transport between home, work and school. Nothing worse than getting to your destination and realizing that the thumb drive is still plugged into the computer at home. Not to mention import/reference issues between locations. It is nice just to log into a site and have your project ready to continue where you left off. I love how Apple says the PC is dead, but you cannot compile an iOS app without a MAC laptop running Intel chipset. You can't compile on a Win PC, iPad or iPhone. Maybe that is about to change, God, I hope so. D On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Mark: > > Some people believe that Cloud development will do exact that. Steve Jobs > went so far as to announce, "The PC is dead." > > The understanding is that there will be no need for desktop type computers > as where ever you go all you data and work capability will travel with you. > All you will need is a dumb terminal like an iPad and you can go anywhere. > > Within major centers this scenario can work but once into the rural areas > the desktop is still king and will be for the foreseeable future. This may > very well be why Windows 8 was created with two UIs. One, when you are > downtown and one when you are further out in the community. > > The Cloud is great as a remote hard drive, development platform and > application host and coupled with full communication to the internet it is > a > potent back-end. > > For me the whole Cloud scenario is great but if I drive 20 miles, out of > town, an iPad is almost useless, as internet communication and cell phone > coverage is spotty at best and I had better have my laptop ready if I want > to work with my office or programming applications...even if I am > developing > for the Cloud or Smartphones. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:25 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development > > Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. > Web Development ? > Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. > > It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or > Desktop development. > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 11:38:18 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:38:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. Many of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it really shows. Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of their potential business because of it. A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not an artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and additional sales you get because of it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. Doug On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) >> >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic >> >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE >> >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 11:39:59 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:39:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> Message-ID: <51522143F8C84724A5D992643E75E913@creativesystemdesigns.com> Same here but sometimes I find myself turning my head horizontal to make sure everything is lined up. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Sometimes the grid it too coarse to get the controls exactly where I want them. But again I use the keyboard - ctrl with an arrow nudges the control - and holding it down moves it continuously. I use that a lot. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 12:28:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:28:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED675C4.6030601@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, and then there is data and bandwidth limits. My work is on data where I select records with gigabytes of data, select a few million, get those into csv files and email or ftp to a site. I move hundreds of gigs of data back and forth doing this just for a single order. So for the house hold pc perhaps, for companies, it seems unlikely. Someday of course (50 years from now?) all the data will just reside in the cloud, will be manipulated on systems in the cloud, and will be delivered to its destination in the cloud. But that won't happen until things get much more reliable and everyone understands how to do this "cloud thing". I get DVDs for crying out loud, with zip files, filled with data which I have to extract and get into the format I can use. I got 100 gigs of raw data in fixed width format on a dozen DVDs, and I have to pull that into SQL Server, strip out the padding spaces and get into real tables. And of course, relative to "Star Trek" kinds of systems we are still in the horse and buggy days. We have come a very long way in just the last 20 years in terms of infrastructure. Remember in 1990 when we were dialing up servers on modems and praying for 12 kbit connections? In 1999 (when I lived in Mexico) I was dialing into servers up in the US to do remote desktop (VNC). But as Jim says, "out in the country"... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/30/2011 12:12 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Mark: > > Some people believe that Cloud development will do exact that. Steve Jobs > went so far as to announce, "The PC is dead." > > The understanding is that there will be no need for desktop type computers > as where ever you go all you data and work capability will travel with you. > All you will need is a dumb terminal like an iPad and you can go anywhere. > > Within major centers this scenario can work but once into the rural areas > the desktop is still king and will be for the foreseeable future. This may > very well be why Windows 8 was created with two UIs. One, when you are > downtown and one when you are further out in the community. > > The Cloud is great as a remote hard drive, development platform and > application host and coupled with full communication to the internet it is a > potent back-end. > > For me the whole Cloud scenario is great but if I drive 20 miles, out of > town, an iPad is almost useless, as internet communication and cell phone > coverage is spotty at best and I had better have my laptop ready if I want > to work with my office or programming applications...even if I am developing > for the Cloud or Smartphones. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:25 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development > > Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. > Web Development ? > Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. > > It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or > Desktop development. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 12:30:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:30:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED67637.9020309@colbyconsulting.com> Apparently it is available but... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/30/2011 12:35 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Don't you have swype available, John? It's in the Android OS, and I > couldn't live without it. When I have to work with the virtual keyboard on > my Nook ereader, I get very frustrated having to tap each letter separately! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:29 AM, jwcolbywrote: > >>> As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do >> you really need that? No. >> >> One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, >> constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or special >> characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat fingertip to get >> at a specific character to back space over... >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> >>> Stuart, >>> >>> I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point >>> with >>> touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very >>> powerful >>> thing. >>> >>> Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. >>> Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. >>> >>> I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's >>> fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is >>> buttons. >>> Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, >>> hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it >>> will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. >>> >>> Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. >>> Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function >>> displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their >>> function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where >>> consumer electronics is going. >>> >>> When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on >>> a >>> keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with >>> your >>> finger). >>> >>> Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. >>> I >>> need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this >>> emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. >>> And >>> not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really >>> important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual >>> keyboard on a touch screen. >>> >>> Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard >>> built into the desktop. >>> >>> As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you >>> really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only >>> worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not >>> getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you >>> make >>> them larger then the text they display; why is that? >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com] >>> On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM >>> >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>> >>> What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. >>> >>> If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the >>> fine resolution of >>> a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel >>> precision with a >>> fingertip? >>> >>> >>> On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>> >>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >>>> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >>>> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >>>> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >>>> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >>>> >>> communication with them... >>> >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >> >> >> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 13:18:40 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:18:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: I seriously agree with that. Having been down that road and suffered its consequences, I have learned the lesson. I can write code; I can't sell ad-space; I have a web-site idea but the whole point is to find sponsors and I'm not good at that part of the equation. Nevertheless, I'm going to try. Tips and trickers for shoppers and programmers and various other alienated persons clickers and quickers and something else that rhymes with the New York Times A. From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 30 13:55:17 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:55:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> Message-ID: <8A3D8B03-6354-428D-9F44-662089B7DEFF@phulse.com> It's basically the same thing with different tools and a different platform, except concepts such as storage and such are now abstracted into another service layer. The same for the CPU and database, etc. Companies are basically just taking on the overwhelming cost of scaling and providing platforms for smaller business to base their web and infrastructure on. Other than that, its often just used as a Marketting lingo to loosely describe another form of whizzbang hosting for some specific service or other. Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 30 Nov 2011, at 07:25, "Mark Simms" wrote: > Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. > Web Development ? > Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. > > It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or > Desktop development. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 15:29:38 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 07:29:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> References: , <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net>, <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> Message-ID: <4ED6A042.27002.21E87A1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Cloud development = web development where you don't know where your code and data are. :-) -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 10:25, Mark Simms wrote: > Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. > Web Development ? > Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. > > It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or > Desktop development. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 15:38:35 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 07:38:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <396fba1e-c77d-484e-b69b-3436da4be89b@blur>, Message-ID: <4ED6A25B.339.226BB4E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Try Alt+Enter to display the property sheet and Alt+F4 to close it and return to the control in question -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:26, Rocky Smolin wrote: > The one thing I'd like is a shortcut that would move the focus from the > property sheet back to the form or report being designed. When I click on > an event to create or edit the event module, then alt-Tab back to the form > or report, the property sheet still has the focus. I have to click outside > the property sheet - means using the mouse. A keyboard shortcut to do that > would be nice. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 15:55:22 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 07:55:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: , , <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. Many > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > really shows. > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > their potential business because of it. > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not an > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > additional sales you get because of it. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > Doug > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > >> > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > >> > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > >> > >> > >> -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Nov 30 16:14:31 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 23:14:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic Message-ID: Hi Stuart Also, it's a marketing boo-boo to offer old versions at reduced prices. Who want's an old version? Name them instead something like silver, gold, platinum, and plutonium; or student (free of course), entry, basic, and pro - you know - and feature a comparison chart where you easily can see what you miss when buying a cheaper version. /gustav >>> stuart at lexacorp.com.pg 30-11-2011 22:55 >>> Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. Many > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > really shows. > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > their potential business because of it. > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not an > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > additional sales you get because of it. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > Doug > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > >> > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > >> > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 16:34:01 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:34:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Manning specials during December Message-ID: <08C5E4DE10D44F4A9D364BBB0C976CB3@SusanHarkins> I know some of you buy a lot of technical books, so I thought I'd pass this along. Susan H. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 30 16:45:41 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:45:41 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7E9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> " It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View" Originally coming from the world of XL where you can scale objects up to 400% and ensure everything is perfectly aligned etc, I find the Access Form Designer to be a giant PITA. Why on earth don't they build a zoom function in?? I will never know... *sigh* -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 1:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; > > consoles, hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. > > I don't doubt it will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch > > keyboard built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice > > down and only worry about getting into the general area of where > > they need to be and not getting to a specific pixel. Just consider > > command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 30 16:48:58 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:48:58 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7FB@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yes I use extensively use align - so much so that they are the first tool set I add to any custom toolbar Access, but often you want to do other things where Align is not suitable or the right tool. Sometimes you cannot beat zooming in to see exactly what is going on. I guess coming from a graphics background as well, I find these missing functions rather odd. Like undo with MS office product - what is with that???. Most software manages multiple levels of undo - even after saving. XL even today can barely manage undo in any useful and meaningful way.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 2:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Nov 30 17:36:51 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:36:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com><4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> Message-ID: <2C48F4FFE2824A5E976A662F11F1A70B@XPS> You do know you can change the grid right? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 12:28 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Sometimes the grid it too coarse to get the controls exactly where I want them. But again I use the keyboard - ctrl with an arrow nudges the control - and holding it down moves it continuously. I use that a lot. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 18:54:17 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:54:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> I guess that means; anonymous...without your name. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. Many > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > really shows. > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > their potential business because of it. > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not an > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > additional sales you get because of it. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > Doug > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > >> > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > >> > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > >> > >> > >> -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 19:10:26 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:10:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7E9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7E9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <1780838314E743B796E4C49C30534E26@HAL9007> What's XL? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 2:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 " It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View" Originally coming from the world of XL where you can scale objects up to 400% and ensure everything is perfectly aligned etc, I find the Access Form Designer to be a giant PITA. Why on earth don't they build a zoom function in?? I will never know... *sigh* -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 1:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; > > consoles, hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. > > I don't doubt it will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch > > keyboard built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice > > down and only worry about getting into the general area of where > > they need to be and not getting to a specific pixel. Just consider > > command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 19:21:31 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:21:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <2C48F4FFE2824A5E976A662F11F1A70B@XPS> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com><4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS><92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com><3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> <2C48F4FFE2824A5E976A662F11F1A70B@XPS> Message-ID: <1CEDE83EB1924B5796424DA323938699@HAL9007> No. One of the 75,000 things I have yet to learn about Access since I've only been using it for 15 years. :) R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 You do know you can change the grid right? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 12:28 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Sometimes the grid it too coarse to get the controls exactly where I want them. But again I use the keyboard - ctrl with an arrow nudges the control - and holding it down moves it continuously. I use that a lot. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 19:22:23 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 11:22:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: , <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No, anonymized as in - Details which could identify individuals removed. i.e. without identifying you or Doug or identifying what mailing list it was on. It was clearly from me. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 16:54, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I guess that means; anonymous...without your name. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. > > -- > Stuart > > On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. > Many > > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > > really shows. > > > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > > their potential business because of it. > > > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not > an > > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > > additional sales you get because of it. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > > > Doug > > > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby > wrote: > > > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > > :-) > > > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > >> > > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > > >> > > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dbdoug at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 19:34:20 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:34:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Good idea to pass on the criticism; hopefully he will take it as constructive... Doug On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > No, anonymized as in - Details which could identify individuals removed. > i.e. without identifying you or Doug or identifying what mailing list it > was on. > > It was clearly from me. > > -- > Stuart > > > On 30 Nov 2011 at 16:54, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > I guess that means; anonymous...without your name. ;-) > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:55 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > > > Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > > > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > > > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > > > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. > > Many > > > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > > > really shows. > > > > > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > > > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent > of > > > their potential business because of it. > > > > > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are > not > > an > > > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and > artist to > > > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > > > additional sales you get because of it. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > > > > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > > > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. > Multiple > > > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not > easy to > > > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > > > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > > > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on > it. > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby > > wrote: > > > > > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use > PowerBasic > > > :-) > > > > > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > > > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use > PowerBasic > > :-) > > > >> > > > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > > > >> > > > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd< > http://databaseadviso > > > rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 30 19:41:35 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 01:41:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <1780838314E743B796E4C49C30534E26@HAL9007> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7E9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <1780838314E743B796E4C49C30534E26@HAL9007> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF98A@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Sorry... Short hand for MS Excel. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 12:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 What's XL? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 2:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 " It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View" Originally coming from the world of XL where you can scale objects up to 400% and ensure everything is perfectly aligned etc, I find the Access Form Designer to be a giant PITA. Why on earth don't they build a zoom function in?? I will never know... *sigh* -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 1:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; > > consoles, hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. > > I don't doubt it will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch > > keyboard built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice > > down and only worry about getting into the general area of where > > they need to be and not getting to a specific pixel. Just consider > > command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 20:02:47 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:02:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <27A97464608E4078BCFF03C71C265060@creativesystemdesigns.com> Just checking. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic No, anonymized as in - Details which could identify individuals removed. i.e. without identifying you or Doug or identifying what mailing list it was on. It was clearly from me. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 16:54, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I guess that means; anonymous...without your name. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. > > -- > Stuart > > On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. > Many > > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > > really shows. > > > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > > their potential business because of it. > > > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not > an > > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > > additional sales you get because of it. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > > > Doug > > > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby > wrote: > > > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > > :-) > > > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > >> > > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > > >> > > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 1 10:56:19 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 08:56:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Text field not editable, weird issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I tried all of that, I even put debug.print statements in all of the control events and in various subs that were being called. I found that the condition would occur when the path was taken along the first half of the IF statement. I was able to replicate this problem on another computer using A2003. I changed the code to open a recordset, rather than selecting a row in the listbox and reading values from hidden columns and it now works. Looks like a bug in 2003 that was fixed in 2007. This code works: DoCmd.SetWarnings False Me.lstModelSumm.RowSource = "EXEC dbo.stpSelectTempMach 0" Me.lstPoResults.RowSource = "EXEC dbo.stpPurchasedMachinesByPO '" & Me.txtTranNo & "'" DoCmd.SetWarnings True Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset Set rs = New ADODB.Recordset 'Call the stored procedure, passing it the parameter, returning recordset rs CurrentProject.Connection.stpPurchasedMachinesByPO IIf(Nz(Me.txtTranNo, "") = "", 0, Me.txtTranNo), rs 'Fill in the fields from the returned recordset If Not rs.BOF And Not rs.EOF Then 'code below is the same as sub: PopulateFields Me.txtVendorCode = RTrim(Nz(rs![vendor_code], "")) Me.txtVendorName = Nz(rs![vendor_name], "") Me.txtTranDate = rs![po_date] Me.txtPoStatus = Nz(rs![po_status], "") Me.txtQty = Nz(rs![Qty], 0) Me.txtCostBasis = Nz(rs![CostBasis], 0) Me.txtModel = RTrim(Nz(rs![ItemNo], "")) Me.txtModelID = Nz(rs![ModelID], "") Me.cboLocationKey = CInt(Nz(rs![LocKeyID], "0")) Call cboLocationKey_Change Me.lstModelSumm.RowSource = "EXEC dbo.stpSelectTempMach 1" Me.cmdEnterSN.Enabled = CanAddAnotherMachine() Else 'No records were returned for given tran no MsgBox "The PO number you entered did not return any records", vbOKOnly, "Invalid PO" Call ClearEntryFields End If rs.Close Set rs = Nothing On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Is this the only user or just the only one having problems? Is there a > copy of the ADP on her box or is she accessing it from a network site? If > the app is on her machine, have you done a decompile and recompile on the > app? Once in a while breakpoints will get stuck and only recompiling will > get rid of them. If you comment out all the code in that routine but leave > the shell, does the application run without an error? Is the next control > in the tab order one of the two you're resetting the rowsource on? > > Charlotte Foust > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Tue Nov 1 14:00:44 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:00:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions References: Message-ID: All, I have a couple questions about Import/Export Specifications (Access 2007). Once a specification is set up, is there a way to change the spec other than making believe that you are setting up a new spec? Also, is it possible to get at the spec with VBA code? Thanks, Brad From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Tue Nov 1 14:30:06 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:30:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> Brad, The specs are located in system files MSysIMEXSpecs and MSysIMEXColumns. Since they are tables I suppose you can modify them but probably not easy and you may not be able to write to system files. The name of export Specs is located in the XSpecs table and the ID assigned, then the column definitions and spacing are in the XColumns table by ID number. I think if you look at them you will be able to easily identify what is going on. The ability to show how to un hide them is cleverly hidden by right clicking on the top of the Navigation page and selecting Navigation options. HTH Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:00 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions All, I have a couple questions about Import/Export Specifications (Access 2007). Once a specification is set up, is there a way to change the spec other than making believe that you are setting up a new spec? Also, is it possible to get at the spec with VBA code? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Tue Nov 1 15:16:39 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:16:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions In-Reply-To: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> References: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> Message-ID: I agree about the probable difficulty of modify the specs, but it's simple enough to do it manually. Just start a manual import as usual, select the import spec you want to modify, which does most of the hard work for you, and then make changes to it as needed. Finally save it with a different name with the 'Save As' button on the Import Specification dialog box. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 3:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions Brad, The specs are located in system files MSysIMEXSpecs and MSysIMEXColumns. Since they are tables I suppose you can modify them but probably not easy and you may not be able to write to system files. The name of export Specs is located in the XSpecs table and the ID assigned, then the column definitions and spacing are in the XColumns table by ID number. I think if you look at them you will be able to easily identify what is going on. The ability to show how to un hide them is cleverly hidden by right clicking on the top of the Navigation page and selecting Navigation options. HTH Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:00 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions All, I have a couple questions about Import/Export Specifications (Access 2007). Once a specification is set up, is there a way to change the spec other than making believe that you are setting up a new spec? Also, is it possible to get at the spec with VBA code? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Tue Nov 1 16:05:53 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:05:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions References: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> Message-ID: Bill and Lambert, Thanks for the help. You have answered my questions. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 3:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions I agree about the probable difficulty of modify the specs, but it's simple enough to do it manually. Just start a manual import as usual, select the import spec you want to modify, which does most of the hard work for you, and then make changes to it as needed. Finally save it with a different name with the 'Save As' button on the Import Specification dialog box. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 3:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions Brad, The specs are located in system files MSysIMEXSpecs and MSysIMEXColumns. Since they are tables I suppose you can modify them but probably not easy and you may not be able to write to system files. The name of export Specs is located in the XSpecs table and the ID assigned, then the column definitions and spacing are in the XColumns table by ID number. I think if you look at them you will be able to easily identify what is going on. The ability to show how to un hide them is cleverly hidden by right clicking on the top of the Navigation page and selecting Navigation options. HTH Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:00 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions All, I have a couple questions about Import/Export Specifications (Access 2007). Once a specification is set up, is there a way to change the spec other than making believe that you are setting up a new spec? Also, is it possible to get at the spec with VBA code? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Nov 1 19:45:58 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:45:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions In-Reply-To: References: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> Message-ID: <00bd01cc98f8$ca088890$5e1999b0$@net> I've faced this same "pain": the import file gets changed (unknowingly) and now the import references gets all messed up....and of course, the entire system you built...crashes. Below is good advice. Modifying the system specs sounds easy...but IT IS NOT ! > Just start a manual import as usual, select the import spec you want to > modify, which does most of the hard work for you, and then make changes > to it as needed. Finally save it with a different name with the 'Save > As' button on the Import Specification dialog box. > From pedro at plex.nl Thu Nov 3 09:43:58 2011 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 09:43:58 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> Dear Group, how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". Data Uitv Sub Patient A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 Result Uitv Sub Unique Patient A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 Thanks Pedro Janssen From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Nov 3 04:00:06 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 10:00:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: Hi Pedro First use a query with DISTINCT to remove the double entries like A-ee-101. Then use this query as source in another query whery you group by Uitv and Sub and count Patient. /gustav >>> pedro at plex.nl 03-11-2011 09:43 >>> Dear Group, how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". Data Uitv Sub Patient A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 Result Uitv Sub Unique Patient A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 Thanks Pedro Janssen From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 11:49:07 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 09:49:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> Message-ID: SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > Dear Group, > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > Data > > Uitv Sub Patient > A ee 101 > A ee 101 > A ee 102 > A ff 201 > A gg 301 > B ee 201 > B ee 301 > B hh 501 > > > > Result > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > A ee 2 > A ff 1 > A gg 1 > B ee 2 > B hh 1 > > > Thanks > > Pedro Janssen > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 3 15:53:27 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 06:53:27 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, Message-ID: <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query first to get rid of the duplicates. On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > FROM tblSomeTable > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > > Dear Group, > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > Data > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > A ee 101 > > A ee 101 > > A ee 102 > > A ff 201 > > A gg 301 > > B ee 201 > > B ee 301 > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > Result > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > A ee 2 > > A ff 1 > > A gg 1 > > B ee 2 > > B hh 1 > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 16:07:43 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 14:07:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Only if UniquePatient is the field you're extracting. Just counting the records returned gives you the number of unique patients, and the unique combinations of Uitv and Sub are there in each record. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > > Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query > first to get rid of the > duplicates. > > On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > FROM tblSomeTable > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > > > Data > > > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > > A ee 101 > > > A ee 101 > > > A ee 102 > > > A ff 201 > > > A gg 301 > > > B ee 201 > > > B ee 301 > > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > > > > > Result > > > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > > A ee 2 > > > A ff 1 > > > A gg 1 > > > B ee 2 > > > B hh 1 > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 16:08:39 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 14:08:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable PKID Uitv Sub Patient ----------- ---- ---- ----------- 1 A ee 101 2 A ee 102 3 A ff 201 4 A gg 301 5 B ee 201 6 B ee 301 7 B hh 501 (7 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. I do not see how Jet would be different. David On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > > Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query > first to get rid of the > duplicates. > > On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > FROM tblSomeTable > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > > > Data > > > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > > A ee 101 > > > A ee 101 > > > A ee 102 > > > A ff 201 > > > A gg 301 > > > B ee 201 > > > B ee 301 > > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > > > > > Result > > > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > > A ee 2 > > > A ff 1 > > > A gg 1 > > > B ee 2 > > > B hh 1 > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From garykjos at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 16:18:00 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 16:18:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Well the original example had TWO A ee 101 records and I agree with Stuart that it would return 3 and not 2 for the simple group by with count in the same one. It needs a double query somehow, two group bys the first to eliminate the dups or a distinct to eliminate the dups lest you double count. Count will count ALL the records that it sees won't it? On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:08 PM, David McAfee wrote: > SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable > > PKID ? ? ? ?Uitv Sub ?Patient > ----------- ---- ---- ----------- > 1 ? ? ? ? ? A ? ?ee ? 101 > 2 ? ? ? ? ? A ? ?ee ? 102 > 3 ? ? ? ? ? A ? ?ff ? 201 > 4 ? ? ? ? ? A ? ?gg ? 301 > 5 ? ? ? ? ? B ? ?ee ? 201 > 6 ? ? ? ? ? B ? ?ee ? 301 > 7 ? ? ? ? ? B ? ?hh ? 501 > > (7 row(s) affected) > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > FROM tblSomeTable > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > Uitv Sub ?UniquePatient > ---- ---- ------------- > A ? ?ee ? 2 > A ? ?ff ? 1 > A ? ?gg ? 1 > B ? ?ee ? 2 > B ? ?hh ? 1 > > (5 row(s) affected) > > Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. > I do not see how Jet would be different. > > David > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >> That won't work, it will return 3 ? for A - ee. >> >> Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query >> first to get rid of the >> duplicates. >> >> On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: >> >> > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient >> > FROM tblSomeTable >> > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub >> > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: >> > >> > > Dear Group, >> > > >> > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". >> > > >> > > Data >> > > >> > > Uitv ? ?Sub ? ? Patient >> > > A ? ? ? ee ? ? ?101 >> > > A ? ? ? ee ? ? ?101 >> > > A ? ? ? ee ? ? ?102 >> > > A ? ? ? ff ? ? ?201 >> > > A ? ? ? gg ? ? ?301 >> > > B ? ? ? ee ? ? ?201 >> > > B ? ? ? ee ? ? ?301 >> > > B ? ? ? hh ? ? ?501 >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Result >> > > >> > > Uitv ? ?Sub ? ? Unique Patient >> > > A ? ? ? ee ? ? ? ?2 >> > > A ? ? ? ff ? ? ? ?1 >> > > A ? ? ? gg ? ? ? ?1 >> > > B ? ? ? ee ? ? ? ?2 >> > > B ? ? ? hh ? ? ? ?1 >> > > >> > > >> > > Thanks >> > > >> > > Pedro Janssen >> > > >> > > -- >> > > AccessD mailing list >> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 17:06:03 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 15:06:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I just tried it in Access and it works just like SQL Server. I can email you a zipped mdb On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > Well the original example had TWO A ee 101 records and I agree with > Stuart that it would return 3 and not 2 for the simple group by with > count in the same one. It needs a double query somehow, two group bys > the first to eliminate the dups or a distinct to eliminate the dups > lest you double count. Count will count ALL the records that it sees > won't it? > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:08 PM, David McAfee > wrote: > > SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable > > > > PKID Uitv Sub Patient > > ----------- ---- ---- ----------- > > 1 A ee 101 > > 2 A ee 102 > > 3 A ff 201 > > 4 A gg 301 > > 5 B ee 201 > > 6 B ee 301 > > 7 B hh 501 > > > > (7 row(s) affected) > > > > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > FROM tblSomeTable > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > Uitv Sub UniquePatient > > ---- ---- ------------- > > A ee 2 > > A ff 1 > > A gg 1 > > B ee 2 > > B hh 1 > > > > (5 row(s) affected) > > > > Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. > > I do not see how Jet would be different. > > > > David > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan >wrote: > > > >> That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > >> > >> Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query > >> first to get rid of the > >> duplicates. > >> > >> On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > >> > >> > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > >> > FROM tblSomeTable > >> > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > >> > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > >> > > >> > > >> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > >> > > >> > > Dear Group, > >> > > > >> > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > >> > > > >> > > Data > >> > > > >> > > Uitv Sub Patient > >> > > A ee 101 > >> > > A ee 101 > >> > > A ee 102 > >> > > A ff 201 > >> > > A gg 301 > >> > > B ee 201 > >> > > B ee 301 > >> > > B hh 501 > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Result > >> > > > >> > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > >> > > A ee 2 > >> > > A ff 1 > >> > > A gg 1 > >> > > B ee 2 > >> > > B hh 1 > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Thanks > >> > > > >> > > Pedro Janssen > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > AccessD mailing list > >> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > >> > -- > >> > AccessD mailing list > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Nov 3 17:25:05 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 23:25:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> Message-ID: <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> Pedro, I don't understand your example with the data provided. Could you please tell if you made some typos - especially: Why is the data "A ee 102" not listed or counted in the result, and why is the data "B ee 201" and "B ee 301" listed as a count of 2 in the result? IOW: What's defining a unique entity for the counting in your example: Uitv + Sub or Uitv + Sub + Patient? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af pedro at plex.nl Sendt: 3. november 2011 09:44 Til: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: [AccessD] unique patients Dear Group, how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". Data Uitv Sub Patient A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 Result Uitv Sub Unique Patient A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 Thanks Pedro Janssen -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 3 17:24:22 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 08:24:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, , Message-ID: <4EB31496.30547.4A0CBDE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> WIth the original dataset, not the cleansed one? -- Stuart On 3 Nov 2011 at 15:06, David McAfee wrote: > I just tried it in Access and it works just like SQL Server. > > I can email you a zipped mdb > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > > > Well the original example had TWO A ee 101 records and I agree with > > Stuart that it would return 3 and not 2 for the simple group by with > > count in the same one. It needs a double query somehow, two group > > bys the first to eliminate the dups or a distinct to eliminate the > > dups lest you double count. Count will count ALL the records that it > > sees won't it? > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:08 PM, David McAfee > > wrote: > > > SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable > > > > > > PKID Uitv Sub Patient > > > ----------- ---- ---- ----------- > > > 1 A ee 101 > > > 2 A ee 102 > > > 3 A ff 201 > > > 4 A gg 301 > > > 5 B ee 201 > > > 6 B ee 301 > > > 7 B hh 501 > > > > > > (7 row(s) affected) > > > > > > > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > > FROM tblSomeTable > > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > > > Uitv Sub UniquePatient > > > ---- ---- ------------- > > > A ee 2 > > > A ff 1 > > > A gg 1 > > > B ee 2 > > > B hh 1 > > > > > > (5 row(s) affected) > > > > > > Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. > > > I do not see how Jet would be different. > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan > > > > >wrote: > > > > > >> That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > > >> > > >> Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select > > >> Distinct Query first to get rid of the duplicates. > > >> > > >> On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > >> > > >> > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > >> > FROM tblSomeTable > > >> > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > >> > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Dear Group, > > >> > > > > >> > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > >> > > > > >> > > Data > > >> > > > > >> > > Uitv Sub Patient > > >> > > A ee 101 > > >> > > A ee 101 > > >> > > A ee 102 > > >> > > A ff 201 > > >> > > A gg 301 > > >> > > B ee 201 > > >> > > B ee 301 > > >> > > B hh 501 > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Result > > >> > > > > >> > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > >> > > A ee 2 > > >> > > A ff 1 > > >> > > A gg 1 > > >> > > B ee 2 > > >> > > B hh 1 > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Thanks > > >> > > > > >> > > Pedro Janssen > > >> > > > > >> > > -- > > >> > > AccessD mailing list > > >> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > > >> > -- > > >> > AccessD mailing list > > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gary Kjos > > garykjos at gmail.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 3 17:24:22 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 08:24:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4EB31496.7808.4A0CC6A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You've changed the data set to suit your code, Essentially doing wht the suggested "pre-query" does. The original data was: A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 ... On 3 Nov 2011 at 14:08, David McAfee wrote: > SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable > > PKID Uitv Sub Patient > ----------- ---- ---- ----------- > 1 A ee 101 > 2 A ee 102 > 3 A ff 201 > 4 A gg 301 > 5 B ee 201 > 6 B ee 301 > 7 B hh 501 > > (7 row(s) affected) > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > FROM tblSomeTable > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > Uitv Sub UniquePatient > ---- ---- ------------- > A ee 2 > A ff 1 > A gg 1 > B ee 2 > B hh 1 > > (5 row(s) affected) > > Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. I > do not see how Jet would be different. > > David > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > > That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > > > > Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct > > Query first to get rid of the duplicates. > > > > On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > > FROM tblSomeTable > > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > > > > > Data > > > > > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > > > A ee 101 > > > > A ee 101 > > > > A ee 102 > > > > A ff 201 > > > > A gg 301 > > > > B ee 201 > > > > B ee 301 > > > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Result > > > > > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > > > A ee 2 > > > > A ff 1 > > > > A gg 1 > > > > B ee 2 > > > > B hh 1 > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 3 17:35:46 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 08:35:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> Message-ID: <4EB31742.25998.4AB3CF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No typos, he wants the number of Unique patients having the same Uitv and Sub. A ee has three records, A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 but two unique patients, 101 and 102. Hence: A ee 2 Similary B ee has two unique patients 201 and 301, hence: B ee 2 -- Stuart On 3 Nov 2011 at 23:25, Asger Blond wrote: > Pedro, > I don't understand your example with the data provided. Could you > please tell if you made some typos - especially: Why is the data "A ee > 102" not listed or counted in the result, and why is the data "B ee > 201" and "B ee 301" listed as a count of 2 in the result? IOW: What's > defining a unique entity for the counting in your example: Uitv + Sub > or Uitv + Sub + Patient? Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af > pedro at plex.nl Sendt: 3. november 2011 09:44 Til: > accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: [AccessD] unique patients > > Dear Group, > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > Data > > Uitv Sub Patient > A ee 101 > A ee 101 > A ee 102 > A ff 201 > A gg 301 > B ee 201 > B ee 301 > B hh 501 > > > > Result > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > A ee 2 > A ff 1 > A gg 1 > B ee 2 > B hh 1 > > > Thanks > > Pedro Janssen > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 17:42:50 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 15:42:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <4EB31496.30547.4A0CBDE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB31496.30547.4A0CBDE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Wow, my eyes or mind must have filtered that second line out when typing the records in. SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient PKID Uitv Sub Patient ----------- ---- ---- ----------- 1 A ee 101 8 A ee 101 2 A ee 102 3 A ff 201 4 A gg 301 5 B ee 201 6 B ee 301 7 B hh 501 (8 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient Uitv Sub Patient ---- ---- ----------- A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 (7 row(s) affected) --Either of these work the same, not sure which is faster/better: SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT DISTINCT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > WIth the original dataset, not the cleansed one? > > -- > Stuart > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Nov 3 18:12:12 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 00:12:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <4EB31742.25998.4AB3CF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> <4EB31742.25998.4AB3CF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <2F0D334405F2453A8AD1967A00129D65@abpc> I see - thanks Stuart. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan Sendt: 3. november 2011 23:36 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] unique patients No typos, he wants the number of Unique patients having the same Uitv and Sub. A ee has three records, A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 but two unique patients, 101 and 102. Hence: A ee 2 Similary B ee has two unique patients 201 and 301, hence: B ee 2 -- Stuart On 3 Nov 2011 at 23:25, Asger Blond wrote: > Pedro, > I don't understand your example with the data provided. Could you > please tell if you made some typos - especially: Why is the data "A ee > 102" not listed or counted in the result, and why is the data "B ee > 201" and "B ee 301" listed as a count of 2 in the result? IOW: What's > defining a unique entity for the counting in your example: Uitv + Sub > or Uitv + Sub + Patient? Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af > pedro at plex.nl Sendt: 3. november 2011 09:44 Til: > accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: [AccessD] unique patients > > Dear Group, > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > Data > > Uitv Sub Patient > A ee 101 > A ee 101 > A ee 102 > A ff 201 > A gg 301 > B ee 201 > B ee 301 > B hh 501 > > > > Result > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > A ee 2 > A ff 1 > A gg 1 > B ee 2 > B hh 1 > > > Thanks > > Pedro Janssen > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 18:32:43 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 16:32:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <2F0D334405F2453A8AD1967A00129D65@abpc> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> <4EB31742.25998.4AB3CF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <2F0D334405F2453A8AD1967A00129D65@abpc> Message-ID: You can do this in TSQL, but access doesn't allow it SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(DISTINCT Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > I see - thanks Stuart. > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan > Sendt: 3. november 2011 23:36 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: Re: [AccessD] unique patients > > No typos, he wants the number of Unique patients having the same Uitv and > Sub. > > A ee has three records, > > A ee 101 > A ee 101 > A ee 102 > > but two unique patients, 101 and 102. > > Hence: > A ee 2 > > Similary B ee has two unique patients 201 and 301, hence: > > B ee 2 > > -- > Stuart > > On 3 Nov 2011 at 23:25, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Pedro, > > I don't understand your example with the data provided. Could you > > please tell if you made some typos - especially: Why is the data "A ee > > 102" not listed or counted in the result, and why is the data "B ee > > 201" and "B ee 301" listed as a count of 2 in the result? IOW: What's > > defining a unique entity for the counting in your example: Uitv + Sub > > or Uitv + Sub + Patient? Asger > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af > > pedro at plex.nl Sendt: 3. november 2011 09:44 Til: > > accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: [AccessD] unique patients > > > > Dear Group, > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > Data > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > A ee 101 > > A ee 101 > > A ee 102 > > A ff 201 > > A gg 301 > > B ee 201 > > B ee 301 > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > Result > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > A ee 2 > > A ff 1 > > A gg 1 > > B ee 2 > > B hh 1 > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Nov 3 18:58:48 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 00:58:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net><4EB31496.30547.4A0CBDE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4480900DEA8F48FCB0796163F3E9C492@abpc> Excellent David! As to performance, testing the two queries in SQL Server shows the same execution plan (which doesn't necessarily mean that the plan and cost would be the same with a different and bigger dataset - but I would guess not). Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee Sendt: 3. november 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] unique patients Wow, my eyes or mind must have filtered that second line out when typing the records in. SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient PKID Uitv Sub Patient ----------- ---- ---- ----------- 1 A ee 101 8 A ee 101 2 A ee 102 3 A ff 201 4 A gg 301 5 B ee 201 6 B ee 301 7 B hh 501 (8 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient Uitv Sub Patient ---- ---- ----------- A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 (7 row(s) affected) --Either of these work the same, not sure which is faster/better: SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT DISTINCT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > WIth the original dataset, not the cleansed one? > > -- > Stuart > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 3 23:45:29 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 00:45:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/amd-to-ax-1400-workers-in-cost-cutting-move -2011-11-03 This really vindicates my "experience" recently with an AMD-approved motherboard vendor and AMD-approved BIOS vendor.....and AMD's own Radeon ATI graphics chipset vendor. The whole experience was "HBB" - Horrible Beyond Belief. Mostly software related...drivers...update software....chipset firmware.....and IMHO: A true symptom of all of the outsourcing going on. Low cost, and Low quality. AMD: Syanara...this is my last AMD build. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Thu Nov 3 23:56:50 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 04:56:50 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55CA841@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <> Your link didn't work. I think this is the correct one. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Friday, 4 November 2011 3:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun http://www.marketwatch.com/story/amd-to-ax-1400-workers-in-cost-cutting-move -2011-11-03 This really vindicates my "experience" recently with an AMD-approved motherboard vendor and AMD-approved BIOS vendor.....and AMD's own Radeon ATI graphics chipset vendor. The whole experience was "HBB" - Horrible Beyond Belief. Mostly software related...drivers...update software....chipset firmware.....and IMHO: A true symptom of all of the outsourcing going on. Low cost, and Low quality. AMD: Syanara...this is my last AMD build. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 4 06:53:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 07:53:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> Message-ID: <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> Mark, I'm confused. You had a bad experience with a build, which I can empathize with. However every motherboard vendor out there does 90% Intel stuff and 10% AMD stuff. Getting support from any vendor is a nightmare, Intel or AMD. In the end though it is mostly the MB vendor that is responsible for making drivers and such easily available for their product. The drivers themselves come from the chip vendor but the BIOS is the MB vendor's responsibility and the BIOS vendor's responsibility. It sounded to me as if had you gone with a "modern" motherboard to match your modern everything else you would likely never have had this HBB experience. I like AMD, but I do not consider myself a fanboy. I came very close to building an Intel i7 system this time around just because I needed performance. But I have built almost nothing but AMD over the years and I have never had a HBB experience. In fact IMO the experience has been getting better, especially in the video driver department. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/4/2011 12:45 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > http://www.marketwatch.com/story/amd-to-ax-1400-workers-in-cost-cutting-move > -2011-11-03 > This really vindicates my "experience" recently with an AMD-approved > motherboard vendor and AMD-approved BIOS vendor.....and AMD's own Radeon ATI > graphics chipset vendor. > The whole experience was "HBB" - Horrible Beyond Belief. > Mostly software related...drivers...update software....chipset > firmware.....and IMHO: > A true symptom of all of the outsourcing going on. > Low cost, and Low quality. > AMD: Syanara...this is my last AMD build. > > > From marksimms at verizon.net Fri Nov 4 09:30:24 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 10:30:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> Sorry John, but my experience with MSI and AMD were really quite different. They've got this Live Update function for BIOS and Driver updates....you click on a button and the stuff downloads and tells you what needs to be updated. Get this: It has no "Run now" feature...and no link to even tell you or take you to where the downloaded update file is located...I can't find it ! There's nothing to "click on". After my initial frustration, I had to laugh about this..... This is the kind of stuff that occurs with poor technical management and poor beta testing. I researched that motherboard and it got good reviews. I have not been able to update the BIOS because of the above, and I cannot update the SSD firmware either as this motherboard does not behave well with SSD drives...and I am NOT going to reinstall Win7 all over again just to accommodate AHCI mode of operation when in fact, no one has been able to tell me how much advantage over IDE it would achieve. I guess I am the "poster child" for a software guy trying to do hardware stuff. Heck, I should have hired you instead ! From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 4 10:28:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:28:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> Message-ID: <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, I don't sell that kind of service (for a reason!) I absolutely understand the frustration but I guess my point is that "I'm done with AMD" is kind of mis-directed. Each motherboard manufacturer is responsible for their web site (which you are having problems with) and providing updates for the bios, drivers and utilities. I can tell you from similar experiences that all the manufacturer web sites pretty much suck. I have done this ASUS for the last build and had the same experience - and ASUS is one of the big boys! But if you had bought an older Intel MB you probably would have hit that exact same brick wall. I do feel your pain though. If we don't have a lot of money to spend it is beyond frustrating to carefully research stuff only to hit these kinds of issues. And it is extremely disconcerting to be placed in such a situation. One of the things that is always recommended is to do the build as quickly as you can and within the 30 day period where you can send stuff back if it doesn't work. If this build were me I would be sending the MB back and moving to another mb. Maybe a different manufacturer, but definitely newer mb. My build experience is long and varied. The last non-laptop computer I purchased was 1989. I have built every single computer since then, and I have probably averaged at least one every couple of years. Or at least a major upgrade. As an example I built two "servers" back in 2004 for handling the SQL Server database client. The technology I could afford at the time was AMD 3800 (single core), 4 gigs RAM, Windows 2003 X32 and SQL Server 2000 X32. From there I upgraded the processor to dual core. I then replaced the motherboard and moved to a quad core, upgraded to Windows 2003 X64 and upgraded my memory to 8 gigs. Then I upgraded to 16 gigs. Last year I built an entirely new system with a dual socket AMD with only one 8 core processor (one socket populated) and 16 gigs of memory. Then 32 gigs of memory. Then populated the other socket with another 8 core chip and 32 gigs of memory. So I kind of do things piece meal as I can afford them. But clear in all of this is the concept of a modern AMD motherboard. The modern (at the time of build) motherboard allows me to upgrade the other pieces for several years. My experience over the years is that no system will last more than about 5 years *for our purposes*, after which I have needed to upgrade the power supply and motherboard, usually keeping the old processor and memory then upgrading those pieces later. This latest build was for my VM server, and I made the switch from DDR2 to DDR3 memory which required a new motherboard, but the AMD processor had a controller that "just worked" with the new DDR3 ram. The old processor "just worked" placing it into a brand new AM3+ motherboard. I just gave away my old AM2+ motherboard to Paul (my programmer) who built an Unraid server with it for his house. I tend to be able to "repurpose" my AMD systems for a long time handing them down to systems with lower requirements than my dev machines and servers. I like AMD for that reason. Intel (and I admit I don't have a ton of experience) seems to require more frequent motherboard / cpu changes. It feels like if you change the (Intel) processor you probably have to change the mb and if you change the mb you will probably have to change the processor. Anyway, all I can offer is my condolences. You seem to be stuck now. If you have any friends close by perhaps they could help you get your SSD updated? John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/4/2011 10:30 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Sorry John, but my experience with MSI and AMD were really quite different. > They've got this Live Update function for BIOS and Driver updates....you > click on a button and the stuff downloads and tells you what needs to be > updated. > Get this: It has no "Run now" feature...and no link to even tell you or take > you to where the downloaded update file is located...I can't find it ! > There's nothing to "click on". > After my initial frustration, I had to laugh about this..... > This is the kind of stuff that occurs with poor technical management and > poor beta testing. > > I researched that motherboard and it got good reviews. I have not been able > to update the BIOS because of the above, and I cannot update the SSD > firmware either as this motherboard does not behave well with SSD > drives...and I am NOT going to reinstall Win7 all over again just to > accommodate AHCI mode of operation when in fact, no one has been able to > tell me how much advantage over IDE it would achieve. > > I guess I am the "poster child" for a software guy trying to do hardware > stuff. > Heck, I should have hired you instead ! > > > From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri Nov 4 13:43:12 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 14:43:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <> Man, licensing costs must be killing you... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 11:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun LOL, I don't sell that kind of service (for a reason!) <> From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 4 16:38:46 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 07:38:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com>, <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com>, Message-ID: <4EB45B66.31477.99D6FF3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> What version numbers really mean: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/04/bofh_2011_episode_17/ From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 05:28:32 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 06:28:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. Arthur On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < Server database client. The > technology I could afford at the time was AMD 3800 (single core), 4 gigs > RAM, Windows 2003 X32 and > SQL Server 2000 X32. From there I upgraded the processor to dual core. I > then replaced the > motherboard and moved to a quad core, upgraded to Windows 2003 X64 and > upgraded my memory to 8 gigs. > Then I upgraded to 16 gigs. Last year I built an entirely new system with > a dual socket AMD with > only one 8 core processor (one socket populated) and 16 gigs of memory. > Then 32 gigs of memory. > Then populated the other socket with another 8 core chip and 32 gigs of > memory.>> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 5 09:06:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 10:06:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. LOL, I dream of winning the powerball just like the rest. I actually borrowed $5000 as a business loan from my mother to build the first two servers in 2004 in order to get this client. In the first 16 months I grossed 10K and I was beginning to wonder if this client was ever going to "pay off". I did everything on SQL Server completely manually and learned as I went. SSMS was my biggest "enemy" as I struggled to figure out how do do all this stuff. Understand that while I had recovered the cost of the hardware I was spending massive time "off the clock" learning how to do sql server and stuff. I was extremely broke at that point and when the client asked "can you do this" I said "YES I CAN!" but hadn't a clue how I was going to do it. I would bet I grossed about $10 an hour those first 16 months on that client's work. I got the client in the first place because his business was with a company that gave him bad service. He was "small potatoes" to this big service company and they would take days to give him counts and pass him from person to person within the company to service his account. It was the fact that I did all of that prep and gave the client immediate service that caused him to eventually give me all of the business that had been with this other company. In the next three years my gross from him increased 20K a year as I gave him what he needed and he placed more and more of his business with me. In addition to all that I took C# and have since designed a custom application to automate the tasks that I have to do for him. Now I actually bill for every hour spent and I even bill for "jobs" which take almost no manual labor. Over the years my client has directly paid about 50% of the direct costs of the servers. When I just didn't have the cash for $2K worth of raid controllers and disks I asked him to write a check for that and he did. I didn't have the cash for the new server so he paid the up front cost to build the machine. I later purchased additional memory, SSDS and such. Understand that in the end, the client pays for everything, since anything that I buy comes after I pay my bills. It wasn't hard to convince the client that his needs required more than a quad core and 16 gigs of memory. I am doing sql kind of stuff, performing where clauses on as many as 20 fields at a time on tens of millions of rows, and joining together tables with tens of millions of rows, in order to get result sets of millions of rows which get exported to disk as fixed width files and csv files. My poor quad core 16 gig machine was struggling! SQL Server is incredibly efficient and the more cores and the more memory you throw at it the faster it gets. By moving to compression I decreased the size on disk, decreased the disk I/O to get this stuff into memory and decreased the footprint of the data in memory so more stuff is loaded at a time, but you need processor power to do the decompression as the data is used in memory. 16 cores, 64 gigs and compression allows me to literally load all of the relevant fields for the tables I am working with and turn my system into an "in memory database". Even then it can take minutes to do some of the pieces of the processes I perform. >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. I would say that my client is solidly in that 1%, but I certainly am not. The machines I have are just a requirement of the work that I do, not an indicator of wealth. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/5/2011 6:28 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single > duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about > lately LOL. > > Arthur > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > >> <> Server database client. The >> technology I could afford at the time was AMD 3800 (single core), 4 gigs >> RAM, Windows 2003 X32 and >> SQL Server 2000 X32. From there I upgraded the processor to dual core. I >> then replaced the >> motherboard and moved to a quad core, upgraded to Windows 2003 X64 and >> upgraded my memory to 8 gigs. >> Then I upgraded to 16 gigs. Last year I built an entirely new system with >> a dual socket AMD with >> only one 8 core processor (one socket populated) and 16 gigs of memory. >> Then 32 gigs of memory. >> Then populated the other socket with another 8 core chip and 32 gigs of >> memory.>> >> >> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 09:16:33 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 10:16:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I hear ya! Welcome back to the 99% LOL. Now if I could only find such a client that would necessitate some serious hardware. Arthur On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:06 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. > > LOL, I dream of winning the powerball just like the rest. > > I actually borrowed $5000 as a business loan from my mother to build the > first two servers in 2004 in order to get this client. > > In the first 16 months I grossed 10K and I was beginning to wonder if this > client was ever going to "pay off". I did everything on SQL Server > completely manually and learned as I went. SSMS was my biggest "enemy" as > I struggled to figure out how do do all this stuff. > > Understand that while I had recovered the cost of the hardware I was > spending massive time "off the clock" learning how to do sql server and > stuff. I was extremely broke at that point and when the client asked "can > you do this" I said "YES I CAN!" but hadn't a clue how I was going to do > it. I would bet I grossed about $10 an hour those first 16 months on that > client's work. > > I got the client in the first place because his business was with a > company that gave him bad service. He was "small potatoes" to this big > service company and they would take days to give him counts and pass him > from person to person within the company to service his account. > > It was the fact that I did all of that prep and gave the client immediate > service that caused him to eventually give me all of the business that had > been with this other company. In the next three years my gross from him > increased 20K a year as I gave him what he needed and he placed more and > more of his business with me. > > In addition to all that I took C# and have since designed a custom > application to automate the tasks that I have to do for him. Now I > actually bill for every hour spent and I even bill for "jobs" which take > almost no manual labor. > > Over the years my client has directly paid about 50% of the direct costs > of the servers. When I just didn't have the cash for $2K worth of raid > controllers and disks I asked him to write a check for that and he did. I > didn't have the cash for the new server so he paid the up front cost to > build the machine. I later purchased additional memory, SSDS and such. > Understand that in the end, the client pays for everything, since anything > that I buy comes after I pay my bills. > > It wasn't hard to convince the client that his needs required more than a > quad core and 16 gigs of memory. I am doing sql kind of stuff, performing > where clauses on as many as 20 fields at a time on tens of millions of > rows, and joining together tables with tens of millions of rows, in order > to get result sets of millions of rows which get exported to disk as fixed > width files and csv files. My poor quad core 16 gig machine was struggling! > > SQL Server is incredibly efficient and the more cores and the more memory > you throw at it the faster it gets. By moving to compression I decreased > the size on disk, decreased the disk I/O to get this stuff into memory and > decreased the footprint of the data in memory so more stuff is loaded at a > time, but you need processor power to do the decompression as the data is > used in memory. 16 cores, 64 gigs and compression allows me to literally > load all of the relevant fields for the tables I am working with and turn > my system into an "in memory database". Even then it can take minutes to > do some of the pieces of the processes I perform. > > > >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. > > I would say that my client is solidly in that 1%, but I certainly am not. > The machines I have are just a requirement of the work that I do, not an > indicator of wealth. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 09:16:33 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 10:16:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I hear ya! Welcome back to the 99% LOL. Now if I could only find such a client that would necessitate some serious hardware. Arthur On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:06 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. > > LOL, I dream of winning the powerball just like the rest. > > I actually borrowed $5000 as a business loan from my mother to build the > first two servers in 2004 in order to get this client. > > In the first 16 months I grossed 10K and I was beginning to wonder if this > client was ever going to "pay off". I did everything on SQL Server > completely manually and learned as I went. SSMS was my biggest "enemy" as > I struggled to figure out how do do all this stuff. > > Understand that while I had recovered the cost of the hardware I was > spending massive time "off the clock" learning how to do sql server and > stuff. I was extremely broke at that point and when the client asked "can > you do this" I said "YES I CAN!" but hadn't a clue how I was going to do > it. I would bet I grossed about $10 an hour those first 16 months on that > client's work. > > I got the client in the first place because his business was with a > company that gave him bad service. He was "small potatoes" to this big > service company and they would take days to give him counts and pass him > from person to person within the company to service his account. > > It was the fact that I did all of that prep and gave the client immediate > service that caused him to eventually give me all of the business that had > been with this other company. In the next three years my gross from him > increased 20K a year as I gave him what he needed and he placed more and > more of his business with me. > > In addition to all that I took C# and have since designed a custom > application to automate the tasks that I have to do for him. Now I > actually bill for every hour spent and I even bill for "jobs" which take > almost no manual labor. > > Over the years my client has directly paid about 50% of the direct costs > of the servers. When I just didn't have the cash for $2K worth of raid > controllers and disks I asked him to write a check for that and he did. I > didn't have the cash for the new server so he paid the up front cost to > build the machine. I later purchased additional memory, SSDS and such. > Understand that in the end, the client pays for everything, since anything > that I buy comes after I pay my bills. > > It wasn't hard to convince the client that his needs required more than a > quad core and 16 gigs of memory. I am doing sql kind of stuff, performing > where clauses on as many as 20 fields at a time on tens of millions of > rows, and joining together tables with tens of millions of rows, in order > to get result sets of millions of rows which get exported to disk as fixed > width files and csv files. My poor quad core 16 gig machine was struggling! > > SQL Server is incredibly efficient and the more cores and the more memory > you throw at it the faster it gets. By moving to compression I decreased > the size on disk, decreased the disk I/O to get this stuff into memory and > decreased the footprint of the data in memory so more stuff is loaded at a > time, but you need processor power to do the decompression as the data is > used in memory. 16 cores, 64 gigs and compression allows me to literally > load all of the relevant fields for the tables I am working with and turn > my system into an "in memory database". Even then it can take minutes to > do some of the pieces of the processes I perform. > > > >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. > > I would say that my client is solidly in that 1%, but I certainly am not. > The machines I have are just a requirement of the work that I do, not an > indicator of wealth. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > > From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 5 09:26:40 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 10:26:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance servers is very valuable. However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation running Vista. After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge waste....especially if you've got an SSD. > Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single > duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about > lately LOL. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Nov 5 09:50:54 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 07:50:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FREE! Query Optimizer eBook and SQL Prompt trial Message-ID: <8A00F47ACBF34238821DAE14333B68F3@HAL9007> FYI http://www.red-gate.com/products/sql-development/sql-prompt/entrypage/sql-qu ery-optimizer-ebook?utm_source=dbw &utm_medium=email&utm_content=queryoptimizer1-20111106&utm_campaign=sqlpromp t From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 5 09:54:28 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 10:54:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> Message-ID: <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> I just replaced my Dell m90 laptop with a $600 Toshiba with an AMD A6-3650 quad core and 6 gigs of RAM. The laptop clocks the cores at around 1.4 g but they can automatically overclock up to about 2.1 g (I think). I then run a virtual machine server with a quad core AMD clocked at 3.3 g and each VM (there are three main VMs) is given a single core and anywhere from 3 gigs to 6 gigs of ram. I have a vmDev virtual machine which has 4 gigs and both Paul and I do our development on that machine, simultaneously, using remote desktop to get at the vm. So a single 3.3 g core and 4 gigs is adequately supporting two developers. I can if I want do my dev directly on my laptop, and the 4 cores are noticeably faster but not enough to make me prefer that to working in vmDev. > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge waste....especially if you've got an SSD. Or a gaming machine. If you were developing big C# programs then more memory would help. At the price of memory today I think 8 gigs is the new norm for development. An SSD also makes an enormous difference though. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/5/2011 10:26 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance > servers is very valuable. > However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core > processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. > I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation > running Vista. > After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even > that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. > I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY > SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge > waste....especially if you've got an SSD. > >> Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single >> duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about >> lately LOL. > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 09:57:23 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 10:57:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> Message-ID: I beg to differ. When running VirtualBox or Hyper-V or any similar product on a 64-bit OS, the more RAM the better. As a semi-retired person, I'm getting by with a mere 4GB and I run Ubuntu Linux as a VirtualBox VM while running Windows 7 as the main OS, and it works well even with only 4GB of RAM. My main problem is how to install an instance of Windows XP as a VM inside VirtualBox. On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance > servers is very valuable. > However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core > processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. > I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation > running Vista. > After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even > that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. > I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY > SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a > huge > waste....especially if you've got an SSD. > > > Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single > > duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about > > lately LOL. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 5 10:18:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 01:18:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com>, <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net>, <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB553B2.10335.D675AA3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I'd go with the 8 GB too, mainly for multiple VMs to test developments under different OS and Access versions -- Stuart On 5 Nov 2011 at 10:54, jwcolby wrote: > > > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM > is a huge waste....especially > if you've got an SSD. > > Or a gaming machine. If you were developing big C# programs then more > memory would help. At the price of memory today I think 8 gigs is the > new norm for development. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 5 11:12:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 12:12:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB56077.7050100@colbyconsulting.com> Did you know that Windows 7 can use an SSD as ready boost? If you are using the SSD as the boot drive and loading everything off of that this will not help, but I have an old 30 g SSD which I put out in one of my WMC systems (tv) and assigned part of it for ready boost and it makes everything much snappier. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/5/2011 10:54 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I just replaced my Dell m90 laptop with a $600 Toshiba with an AMD A6-3650 quad core and 6 gigs of > RAM. The laptop clocks the cores at around 1.4 g but they can automatically overclock up to about > 2.1 g (I think). I then run a virtual machine server with a quad core AMD clocked at 3.3 g and each > VM (there are three main VMs) is given a single core and anywhere from 3 gigs to 6 gigs of ram. > > I have a vmDev virtual machine which has 4 gigs and both Paul and I do our development on that > machine, simultaneously, using remote desktop to get at the vm. So a single 3.3 g core and 4 gigs is > adequately supporting two developers. I can if I want do my dev directly on my laptop, and the 4 > cores are noticeably faster but not enough to make me prefer that to working in vmDev. > > > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge waste....especially > if you've got an SSD. > > Or a gaming machine. If you were developing big C# programs then more memory would help. At the > price of memory today I think 8 gigs is the new norm for development. > > An SSD also makes an enormous difference though. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/5/2011 10:26 AM, Mark Simms wrote: >> There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance >> servers is very valuable. >> However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core >> processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. >> I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation >> running Vista. >> After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even >> that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. >> I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY >> SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. >> Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge >> waste....especially if you've got an SSD. >> >>> Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single >>> duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about >>> lately LOL. >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 5 11:14:46 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 12:14:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> Message-ID: <4EB560F6.2080902@colbyconsulting.com> No one can know another's budget but (in the US anyway) 8 gigs of ram can be had for $40 on sale, $50 as a normal price. That is a pretty darned cheap upgrade. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/5/2011 10:57 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I beg to differ. When running VirtualBox or Hyper-V or any similar product > on a 64-bit OS, the more RAM the better. As a semi-retired person, I'm > getting by with a mere 4GB and I run Ubuntu Linux as a VirtualBox VM while > running Windows 7 as the main OS, and it works well even with only 4GB of > RAM. > > My main problem is how to install an instance of Windows XP as a VM inside > VirtualBox. > > On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance >> servers is very valuable. >> However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core >> processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. >> I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation >> running Vista. >> After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even >> that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. >> I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY >> SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. >> Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a >> huge >> waste....especially if you've got an SSD. >> >>> Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single >>> duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about >>> lately LOL. >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From bheid at sc.rr.com Sat Nov 5 11:57:02 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 12:57:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FREE! Query Optimizer eBook and SQL Prompt trial In-Reply-To: <8A00F47ACBF34238821DAE14333B68F3@HAL9007> References: <8A00F47ACBF34238821DAE14333B68F3@HAL9007> Message-ID: <001201cc9bdb$f0e62720$d2b27560$@sc.rr.com> We use SQL prompt at work (along with several other RedGate tools. I like it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2011 10:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] FREE! Query Optimizer eBook and SQL Prompt trial FYI http://www.red-gate.com/products/sql-development/sql-prompt/entrypage/sql-qu ery-optimizer-ebook?utm_source=dbw &utm_medium=email&utm_content=queryoptimizer1-20111106&utm_campaign=sqlpromp t -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 5 16:29:05 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 17:29:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <004501cc9c01$f277f570$d767e050$@net> Sorry, I should have QUALIFIED this....REAL MACHINE ONLY... Virtual Machine set-up ? Definitely needs much more than 4 gigs...probably 4GB PER VM ! And John got exactly my point: SSD means less DRAM needed. > I just replaced my Dell m90 laptop with a $600 Toshiba with an AMD A6- > 3650 quad core and 6 gigs of > RAM. The laptop clocks the cores at around 1.4 g but they can > automatically overclock up to about > 2.1 g (I think). I then run a virtual machine server with a quad core > AMD clocked at 3.3 g and each > VM (there are three main VMs) is given a single core and anywhere from > 3 gigs to 6 gigs of ram. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 13:55:24 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 14:55:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Q&Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think that I'm going back to Ludy's Piano Sonatas this afternoon. Sure beats TV! Three major hits. Well actually I got sidetracked momentarily by Opera. I'm at this moment listening to Luciano Pavarotti and I understand that young girls your age don't get it, and that's ok, I get it, and it's lonely out here but I can deal with it. Despite popular tastes, opera and string quartets live! Beyond their 200-year time-spans. Yes I love various groups such as Stones and Talking Heads and Clash, but taking the Long Picture, how many of their tunes are going to be played in 100 years? That's the basic definition of classic music, like it or not. One cannot predict the future, one can only guess. That admitted, here are some of my guesses, of music that will be played in 2013. 1. M2O: Miss America. That record will live on and on and on and on. 2. The Beatles: The White Album. That's the best record they ever did. 3. Miles Davis: Kind of Blue. With his transcription of "Concierto de Aranjuez" he got all the love and sorrow all perfectly right. 4. Uakti: Mapa and several subsequent CDs. This trio from Brazil is probably my favourite world-music group. 5, Swapan Chauduri, IMO the best tabla player that I have ever heard. In the company of G.S. Sachdev, this is music to die for. On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Audra Gonsalves wrote: > Hey you - this dumb ass laptop that I am using keeps going down- guess > it's because his horney nephew used it all night - so going to give it a > break to cool down and then come back to your emails! > > miss and love you - so so miss you me > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 11:42:39 -0400 > Subject: Q&Q > From: fuller.artful at gmail.com > To: audragonsalves at hotmail.com > > > Almost time for Quirks and Quarks. I'm assuming that you at least have the > freedom to listen to cbc. Starts at 12pm and after that comes The Debaters! > So if possible, get near a radio and tune in to 99.1 FM. Bob McDonald has > some cool stuff this week, and the Debaters ditto. > > Used to be an expression, "I'm glued to the tube." In my case, and I'm not > alone in this, I'm glued to the radio. Weekends are the worst part of cbc > radio (I hate blues music and I'm way too tired of Randy Bachman's rock > music choices). Truth be told, I could live what remains of my life without > ever hearing another blues or R&R tune. At this point, I'm solely > interested in music that lasts, and that includes East Indian classical > music (remember when we went to see and speak with G.S. Sachdev and Swapan > Chaudhuri. and previous to that, Zakir Hussain?) > > Lately I'm on a re-acquaintance with the music of Ludwig van Beethoven. > It's so wonderful to hear him again. I have ignored him for decades, but > lately acquired and copied about a dozen CDs containing his magnificent > works. > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 6 16:24:44 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 22:24:44 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Q&Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D0FE6@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yes, I often wonder about that too. Which of today's tracks are going to be listened to, studied and reproduced in 200 years? Of course a lot of it used to come down to luck, what survived the years of fire, wars, fashion and chaos. Perhaps with digital storage that may less of a problem, or more likely (I fear), a real problem (what if the power went off tomorrow, how much IP and data would we instantly & permanently lose?). Anyway I digress. The other thing about some of the classical composers that amazes me was just how prodigious and consistent their output was. Sure the Beatles and stones had a few good albums, but look at Mozart's back catalogue just a one example... The hits keeps coming so to speak. Anyway, an interesting idea to think about. Am am pretty confident that hardly anything in the top 10 pop charts or any given week will be there in 5 years, let alone 200.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2011 5:55 AM To: Audra Gonsalves Subject: Re: [AccessD] Q&Q I think that I'm going back to Ludy's Piano Sonatas this afternoon. Sure beats TV! Three major hits. Well actually I got sidetracked momentarily by Opera. I'm at this moment listening to Luciano Pavarotti and I understand that young girls your age don't get it, and that's ok, I get it, and it's lonely out here but I can deal with it. Despite popular tastes, opera and string quartets live! Beyond their 200-year time-spans. Yes I love various groups such as Stones and Talking Heads and Clash, but taking the Long Picture, how many of their tunes are going to be played in 100 years? That's the basic definition of classic music, like it or not. One cannot predict the future, one can only guess. That admitted, here are some of my guesses, of music that will be played in 2013. 1. M2O: Miss America. That record will live on and on and on and on. 2. The Beatles: The White Album. That's the best record they ever did. 3. Miles Davis: Kind of Blue. With his transcription of "Concierto de Aranjuez" he got all the love and sorrow all perfectly right. 4. Uakti: Mapa and several subsequent CDs. This trio from Brazil is probably my favourite world-music group. 5, Swapan Chauduri, IMO the best tabla player that I have ever heard. In the company of G.S. Sachdev, this is music to die for. On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Audra Gonsalves wrote: > Hey you - this dumb ass laptop that I am using keeps going down- > guess it's because his horney nephew used it all night - so going to > give it a break to cool down and then come back to your emails! > > miss and love you - so so miss you me > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 11:42:39 -0400 > Subject: Q&Q > From: fuller.artful at gmail.com > To: audragonsalves at hotmail.com > > > Almost time for Quirks and Quarks. I'm assuming that you at least have > the freedom to listen to cbc. Starts at 12pm and after that comes The Debaters! > So if possible, get near a radio and tune in to 99.1 FM. Bob McDonald > has some cool stuff this week, and the Debaters ditto. > > Used to be an expression, "I'm glued to the tube." In my case, and I'm > not alone in this, I'm glued to the radio. Weekends are the worst part > of cbc radio (I hate blues music and I'm way too tired of Randy > Bachman's rock music choices). Truth be told, I could live what > remains of my life without ever hearing another blues or R&R tune. At > this point, I'm solely interested in music that lasts, and that > includes East Indian classical music (remember when we went to see and > speak with G.S. Sachdev and Swapan Chaudhuri. and previous to that, > Zakir Hussain?) > > Lately I'm on a re-acquaintance with the music of Ludwig van Beethoven. > It's so wonderful to hear him again. I have ignored him for decades, > but lately acquired and copied about a dozen CDs containing his > magnificent works. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pedro at plex.nl Mon Nov 7 14:47:52 2011 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 14:47:52 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: <201111071347.pA7DlqaZ029887@mailhostC.plex.net> Thanks David, i will try both solutions on the large dataset. I have missed the previous mailings on my topic, because of a holiday i set a stop on the mailings for accessd, and noticed it when i did not received any mailings. Where there any important mailings on this topic other then the ones below? Also the archives can't be consulted. Pedro Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 00:58:48 +0100 From: "Asger Blond" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: <4480900DEA8F48FCB0796163F3E9C492 at abpc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Excellent David! As to performance, testing the two queries in SQL Server shows the same execution plan (which doesn't necessarily mean that the plan and cost would be the same with a different and bigger dataset - but I would guess not). Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee Sendt: 3. november 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] unique patients Wow, my eyes or mind must have filtered that second line out when typing the records in. SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient PKID Uitv Sub Patient ----------- ---- ---- ----------- 1 A ee 101 8 A ee 101 2 A ee 102 3 A ff 201 4 A gg 301 5 B ee 201 6 B ee 301 7 B hh 501 (8 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient Uitv Sub Patient ---- ---- ----------- A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 (7 row(s) affected) --Either of these work the same, not sure which is faster/better: SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT DISTINCT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > WIth the original dataset, not the cleansed one? > > -- > Stuart > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 7 07:58:43 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 14:58:43 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: Hi Pedro My suggestion was: First use a query with DISTINCT to remove the double entries like A-ee-101. Then use this query as source in another query whery you group by Uitv and Sub and count Patient. /gustav >>> pedro at plex.nl 07-11-2011 14:47 >>> Thanks David, i will try both solutions on the large dataset. I have missed the previous mailings on my topic, because of a holiday i set a stop on the mailings for accessd, and noticed it when i did not received any mailings. Where there any important mailings on this topic other then the ones below? Also the archives can't be consulted. Pedro From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon Nov 7 08:12:05 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 09:12:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Q&Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well I remember when I was just a kid my English teacher telling the class that there was just no way those Beatles chappies were ever going to last. 40 years later they are still highly popular, and not just with baby boomers. So who knows what we will be writing term papers about in another forty years. Lambert :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2011 2:55 PM To: Audra Gonsalves Subject: Re: [AccessD] Q&Q I think that I'm going back to Ludy's Piano Sonatas this afternoon. Sure beats TV! Three major hits. Well actually I got sidetracked momentarily by Opera. I'm at this moment listening to Luciano Pavarotti and I understand that young girls your age don't get it, and that's ok, I get it, and it's lonely out here but I can deal with it. Despite popular tastes, opera and string quartets live! Beyond their 200-year time-spans. Yes I love various groups such as Stones and Talking Heads and Clash, but taking the Long Picture, how many of their tunes are going to be played in 100 years? That's the basic definition of classic music, like it or not. One cannot predict the future, one can only guess. That admitted, here are some of my guesses, of music that will be played in 2013. 1. M2O: Miss America. That record will live on and on and on and on. 2. The Beatles: The White Album. That's the best record they ever did. 3. Miles Davis: Kind of Blue. With his transcription of "Concierto de Aranjuez" he got all the love and sorrow all perfectly right. 4. Uakti: Mapa and several subsequent CDs. This trio from Brazil is probably my favourite world-music group. 5, Swapan Chauduri, IMO the best tabla player that I have ever heard. In the company of G.S. Sachdev, this is music to die for. On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Audra Gonsalves wrote: > Hey you - this dumb ass laptop that I am using keeps going down- > guess it's because his horney nephew used it all night - so going to > give it a break to cool down and then come back to your emails! > > miss and love you - so so miss you me > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 11:42:39 -0400 > Subject: Q&Q > From: fuller.artful at gmail.com > To: audragonsalves at hotmail.com > > > Almost time for Quirks and Quarks. I'm assuming that you at least have > the freedom to listen to cbc. Starts at 12pm and after that comes The Debaters! > So if possible, get near a radio and tune in to 99.1 FM. Bob McDonald > has some cool stuff this week, and the Debaters ditto. > > Used to be an expression, "I'm glued to the tube." In my case, and I'm > not alone in this, I'm glued to the radio. Weekends are the worst part > of cbc radio (I hate blues music and I'm way too tired of Randy > Bachman's rock music choices). Truth be told, I could live what > remains of my life without ever hearing another blues or R&R tune. At > this point, I'm solely interested in music that lasts, and that > includes East Indian classical music (remember when we went to see and > speak with G.S. Sachdev and Swapan Chaudhuri. and previous to that, > Zakir Hussain?) > > Lately I'm on a re-acquaintance with the music of Ludwig van Beethoven. > It's so wonderful to hear him again. I have ignored him for decades, > but lately acquired and copied about a dozen CDs containing his > magnificent works. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 11:10:43 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 09:10:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Q&Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My kids would whine when I would play the Beatles in my car. Then the Beatles Rock Band game came out and they were tolerant of the music. We took them to go see the Beatles Love Show in Vegas in January and they loved it. They were asking to hear them on the drive home. ;) On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Heenan, Lambert < Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com> wrote: > Well I remember when I was just a kid my English teacher telling the class > that there was just no way those Beatles chappies were ever going to last. > 40 years later they are still highly popular, and not just with baby > boomers. So who knows what we will be writing term papers about in another > forty years. > > Lambert :-) > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 12:38:52 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 10:38:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg Message-ID: Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Mon Nov 7 12:45:40 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 07:45:40 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Rocky, What I used to use was the Prt Scr key into Paint, and crop what I wanted before copying and pasting into Word. Now with Windows 7 I use the snipping tool. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: >Dear List: > >When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports >into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word >doc manual. > >But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > >Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a >jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into >the reports section of my manual. > >Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > >MTIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >858-259-4334 >www.bchacc.com >www.e-z-mrp.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 12:46:43 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 10:46:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alt + Print Screen? On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports > into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word > doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a > jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them > into > the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 12:50:43 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 12:50:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you do print preview of the report and then capture the preview with the PRINT SCREEN key or ALT + PRINT SCREEN for just the active window you could then paste the screens into PAINT and then crop the image the way you want before saving as JPG. If you set your screen for a higher resolution you will get a better end result. GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports > into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word > doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a > jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into > the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 13:05:08 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:05:08 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: When I tried that before, the resolution wasn't high enough - limited by the screen res since it was essentially a screen capture. But that was under WXP. Different with W7? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of newsgrps Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Rocky, What I used to use was the Prt Scr key into Paint, and crop what I wanted before copying and pasting into Word. Now with Windows 7 I use the snipping tool. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: >Dear List: > >When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the >reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on >to the word doc manual. > >But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > >Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably >as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste >them into the reports section of my manual. > >Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > >MTIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >858-259-4334 >www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Mon Nov 7 13:09:41 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 08:09:41 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111107190943.BHXV28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Gary's solution may work - "If you set your screen for a higher resolution you will get a better end result." At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: >When I tried that before, the resolution wasn't high enough - limited by the >screen res since it was essentially a screen capture. But that was under >WXP. Different with W7? > >R > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of newsgrps >Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:46 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; 'Access Developers >discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg > >Rocky, > >What I used to use was the Prt Scr key into Paint, and crop what I wanted >before copying and pasting into Word. > >Now with Windows 7 I use the snipping tool. > >Regards > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >New Zealand > >At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >Dear List: > > > >When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > >reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on > >to the word doc manual. > > > >But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > > >Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > >as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste > >them into the reports section of my manual. > > > >Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > > >MTIA > > > >Rocky Smolin > >Beach Access Software > >858-259-4334 > >www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Nov 7 13:09:21 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:09:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out what is really going on. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 13:13:04 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:13:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35B7DC7082C4477AA1D08EA32AD45654@HAL9007> My screen set to 1920 x 1080 and the image is almost crisp enough but not quite. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg If you do print preview of the report and then capture the preview with the PRINT SCREEN key or ALT + PRINT SCREEN for just the active window you could then paste the screens into PAINT and then crop the image the way you want before saving as JPG. If you set your screen for a higher resolution you will get a better end result. GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 13:15:33 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:15:33 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: I use PrtScr (free) from http://www.fiastarta.com/PrtScr/ It allows you to select any area of the screen to copy, and you can set the default location, type, and quality of the file. Doug On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you > want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture > the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out > what is really going on. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports > into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word > doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a > jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them > into > the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 13:15:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:15:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: I remember now - I used Snagit before but it's on an old XP comp. Bit awkward at this point, but it'll get me there in a pinch. I was hoping maybe in the intervening 5 years something cheap and effective had been developed. I've got a good pdf printer but can't see a way to get it into my word doc. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out what is really going on. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 7 13:23:16 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:23:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: 72 dpi is sort of the maximum with screen capturing, at least traditionally. I am not sure of a way around that or software that can or will capture a higher resolution unless it is reading straight off the video card not the monitor. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg When I tried that before, the resolution wasn't high enough - limited by the screen res since it was essentially a screen capture. But that was under WXP. Different with W7? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of newsgrps Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Rocky, What I used to use was the Prt Scr key into Paint, and crop what I wanted before copying and pasting into Word. Now with Windows 7 I use the snipping tool. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: >Dear List: > >When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the >reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on >to the word doc manual. > >But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > >Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably >as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste >them into the reports section of my manual. > >Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > >MTIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >858-259-4334 >www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 13:33:30 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:33:30 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: here's a thread from December 2008 where you asked the same question. Unfortunately it refers to a message in the archives..... ------------------------------------------------------------ David: That was it. Thanks. I have it on my rig and tried it but couldn't seem to get it to work right. Got it all straightened out now. Getting old sucks. :) Best, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Beckles Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:50 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reports To File - Hide quoted text - Dear Rocky, I think that you are looking for Print to Picture. Take a look at: http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2006-November/047420.html David ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I remember now - I used Snagit before but it's on an old XP comp. ?Bit > awkward at this point, but it'll get me there in a pinch. ?I was hoping > maybe in the intervening 5 years something cheap and effective had been > developed. ?I've got a good pdf printer but can't see a way to get it into > my word doc. > > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:09 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you > want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture > the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out > what is really going on. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports > into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word > doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a > jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into > the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 13:39:02 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:39:02 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: There are virtual printer drivers that print to JPG.... http://code-industry.net/imageprinter.php GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > here's a thread from December 2008 where you asked the same question. > Unfortunately it refers to a message in the archives..... > ------------------------------------------------------------ > David: > > That was it. ?Thanks. ?I have it on my rig and tried it but couldn't seem to > get it to work right. Got it all straightened out now. ?Getting old sucks. > :) > > Best, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.e-z-mrp.com > www.bchacc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Beckles > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:50 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reports To File > > - Hide quoted text - > Dear Rocky, > I think that you are looking for Print to Picture. Take a look at: > http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2006-November/047420.html > > David > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> I remember now - I used Snagit before but it's on an old XP comp. ?Bit >> awkward at this point, but it'll get me there in a pinch. ?I was hoping >> maybe in the intervening 5 years something cheap and effective had been >> developed. ?I've got a good pdf printer but can't see a way to get it into >> my word doc. >> >> R >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:09 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you >> want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture >> the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out >> what is really going on. >> >> Doug >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> Dear List: >> >> When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports >> into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word >> doc manual. >> >> But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. >> >> Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a >> jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into >> the reports section of my manual. >> >> Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? >> >> MTIA >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> 858-259-4334 >> www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 13:47:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:47:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: Per Gary's suggestion, I captured a screen put it into paint and save it as jpg. Pasted it into a word doc but it was fuzzy. Do you think this product will be better? I'm thinking it can't do better than the screen res. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg I use PrtScr (free) from http://www.fiastarta.com/PrtScr/ It allows you to select any area of the screen to copy, and you can set the default location, type, and quality of the file. Doug On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if > you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will > also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into > Google to find out what is really going on. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 14:02:55 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 12:02:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: <879A49D0D6424ACC8A22883F7FAB99AC@HAL9007> Oh, bummer - so close - "this version doesn't support 64 bit systems". :( Image Pro will do it however for $30. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg There are virtual printer drivers that print to JPG.... http://code-industry.net/imageprinter.php GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > here's a thread from December 2008 where you asked the same question. > Unfortunately it refers to a message in the archives..... > ------------------------------------------------------------ > David: > > That was it. ?Thanks. ?I have it on my rig and tried it but couldn't > seem to get it to work right. Got it all straightened out now. ?Getting old sucks. > :) > > Best, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.e-z-mrp.com > www.bchacc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David > Beckles > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:50 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reports To File > > - Hide quoted text - > Dear Rocky, > I think that you are looking for Print to Picture. Take a look at: > http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2006-November/047420.htm > l > > David > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------ > >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> I remember now - I used Snagit before but it's on an old XP comp. ? >> Bit awkward at this point, but it'll get me there in a pinch. ?I was >> hoping maybe in the intervening 5 years something cheap and effective >> had been developed. ?I've got a good pdf printer but can't see a way >> to get it into my word doc. >> >> R >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug >> Murphy >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:09 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if >> you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will >> also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into >> Google to find out what is really going on. >> >> Doug >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> Dear List: >> >> When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the >> reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them >> on to the word doc manual. >> >> But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. >> >> Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably >> as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can >> paste them into the reports section of my manual. >> >> Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? >> >> MTIA >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> 858-259-4334 >> www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 14:10:57 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:10:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: I just did it using IFRANVIEW instead of paint and the results looked pretty good. You have to have the report maximized on your screen when you do the grab though. The more pixels the better. I've got a pretty big monitor here so that helps I suppose. GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Per Gary's suggestion, I captured a screen put it into paint and save it as > jpg. ?Pasted it into a word doc but it was fuzzy. ?Do you think this product > will be better? ?I'm thinking it can't do better than the screen res. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:16 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > I use PrtScr (free) from > > http://www.fiastarta.com/PrtScr/ > > It allows you to select any area of the screen to copy, and you can set the > default location, type, and quality of the file. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > >> I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if >> you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will >> also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into >> Google to find out what is really going on. >> >> Doug >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> Dear List: >> >> When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the >> reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them >> on to the word doc manual. >> >> But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. >> >> Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably >> as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can >> paste them into the reports section of my manual. >> >> Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? >> >> MTIA >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> 858-259-4334 >> www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 7 15:22:28 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 07:22:28 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 7 15:42:38 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 22:42:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg Message-ID: Hi Rocky et al You are a little off-track here. First, JPG is for photos, not graphic arts with fonts. Second, don't write the reports to the screen, write to an image printer like: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer which will print not near-perfect but perfect images in, say, TIFF format or another bitmap format. Use a resolution that will allow you to scale the image of the report to match the resolution of the pages of your manual. We did that back in 1994 using a fax printer that saved the reports to bitmap files suitable for sending by fax. /gustav >>> rockysmolin at bchacc.com 07-11-2011 19:38 >>> Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 16:18:40 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:18:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 16:24:47 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:24:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1D68B1DDDDBC43AE832432EBE35AF6A9@HAL9007> The jpg format worked well 5 years ago when I did the manual. So I didn't really look any farther. Is that the same as Microsoft XPS Document Writer? Trying it now - creates a file in .xps format. But then how to get it into Word? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Hi Rocky et al You are a little off-track here. First, JPG is for photos, not graphic arts with fonts. Second, don't write the reports to the screen, write to an image printer like: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer which will print not near-perfect but perfect images in, say, TIFF format or another bitmap format. Use a resolution that will allow you to scale the image of the report to match the resolution of the pages of your manual. We did that back in 1994 using a fax printer that saved the reports to bitmap files suitable for sending by fax. /gustav >>> rockysmolin at bchacc.com 07-11-2011 19:38 >>> Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 7 16:29:46 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:29:46 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D430E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Don't use paint would be my first suggestion. I have never found it satisfactory with quality. Oddly I usually use XL first as my picture editing tool. Why Excel? 1: You already have XL 2: XL has gobs of room to move stuff around 3: Excel has tabs you can build put many photos in one workbook, or many objects etc. 4: You can visually show in the print margins in the worksheet and then resize or crop the picture to fit the print size - handy. 5: You can add text, arrows, circle and other objects if you want and then save them as a single picture. To convert to a screen grab to a jpg you can just copy and paste as picture. If you have added other objects as well as your screenshot then press F5 (Goto), choose the "Special..." button, select objects. Then copy all the objects and paste as picture. Nice :) I also recommend irfanview (free) as a decent picture editor Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 6:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Per Gary's suggestion, I captured a screen put it into paint and save it as jpg. Pasted it into a word doc but it was fuzzy. Do you think this product will be better? I'm thinking it can't do better than the screen res. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg I use PrtScr (free) from http://www.fiastarta.com/PrtScr/ It allows you to select any area of the screen to copy, and you can set the default location, type, and quality of the file. Doug On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if > you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will > also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into > Google to find out what is really going on. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Nov 7 17:07:48 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 15:07:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> Not sure what the problem is but I have the free version of inrfranview running on a 64 bit machine. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 7 17:28:29 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 23:28:29 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5399@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Ditto, I have it running on two different W7 64 Bit machines without issue. That was just the standard free download too from memory. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Not sure what the problem is but I have the free version of inrfranview running on a 64 bit machine. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Nov 7 17:30:38 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 15:30:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for something that should be simple. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Mon Nov 7 17:49:11 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:49:11 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> Message-ID: <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> I couldn't agree more, Doug. Snagit is fantastic. I just did a rough tally up, and I reckon I have used Snagit already about 10 times today. Converted some PDFs to JPGs and put them into a document. Converted some EPSs to PNGs, made transparent backgrounds and tweaked some colours. Re-jigged and re-sized some logos. Captured and annotated some screen shots to assist with some customer support. I don't know how I'd live without it. :) Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for something that should be simple. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 7 17:51:11 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 09:51:11 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> References: , , <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> Message-ID: <4EB86EEF.22769.1989D0CC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Irfanview does the same sort of thing and is free for personal use. I use it all the time. On 7 Nov 2011 at 15:30, Doug Murphy wrote: > If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money > ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full > screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, > highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you > want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a > little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to > do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, > edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for > something that should be simple. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit > version is $30. > > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] > Report To jpg > > IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. > > Otherwise: > Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from > http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ > > -- > Stuart > > On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > > on to the word doc manual. > > > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, > > probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that > > I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Mon Nov 7 17:56:37 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:56:37 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <92A32D8A28D748A59BEA9DB7EE6D53A8@stevelaptop> Sorry, in my enthusiasm I forget the main point I wanted to make here. :) Back to Rocky's original question, with Snagit you don't open the report preview, and then capture a screen shot. Well, you could, and that would give good results. But Snagit also acts as a printer driver, so best and easiest is to just print the report directly to Snagit, and then you can do what you want with it and save it to whatever image format you want. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Steve Schapel Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg I couldn't agree more, Doug. Snagit is fantastic. I just did a rough tally up, and I reckon I have used Snagit already about 10 times today. Converted some PDFs to JPGs and put them into a document. Converted some EPSs to PNGs, made transparent backgrounds and tweaked some colours. Re-jigged and re-sized some logos. Captured and annotated some screen shots to assist with some customer support. I don't know how I'd live without it. :) Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for something that should be simple. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Nov 7 18:08:31 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 03:08:31 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Message-ID: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> Hi All -- Somehow I can't get the subj working properly. How do you make MS Excel workbook recalculation/charts redrawn implemented there using VBA Automation without SendKeys - could you please post a VBA code snippet? I would like to 1) set MS Excel option of Automatic formulas recalculation off on MS Excel start-up, then; 2) open existing workbook with formulas and charts; 3) get backend db data retrieved into one or more worksheets, which cells are referred in formulas and charts; 4) run recalculation of whole workbook; 5) save workbook 6) set Automatic recalculation option back to its default 'Auto' value... I d not know how to make (1),(6) and(4) working via Automation. Please advise. Thank you. -- Shamil From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 7 18:22:24 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 00:22:24 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... In-Reply-To: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5421@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hi Samil In Excel VBA you need to use the following. You might need to set the excel application first in Access VBA, depending on how you are calling Excel. If you are using an Excel Template, you can just put then xlCalcManual code in the workbook open event instead. 1: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual 4: Application.Calculate or Application.CalculateFull 6: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationAutomatic Now you can either call them from Access VBA or for Excel VBA, depending on how you are controlling XL. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 11:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi All -- Somehow I can't get the subj working properly. How do you make MS Excel workbook recalculation/charts redrawn implemented there using VBA Automation without SendKeys - could you please post a VBA code snippet? I would like to 1) set MS Excel option of Automatic formulas recalculation off on MS Excel start-up, then; 2) open existing workbook with formulas and charts; 3) get backend db data retrieved into one or more worksheets, which cells are referred in formulas and charts; 4) run recalculation of whole workbook; 5) save workbook 6) set Automatic recalculation option back to its default 'Auto' value... I d not know how to make (1),(6) and(4) working via Automation. Please advise. Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 18:26:45 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 16:26:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> Message-ID: <3401A7D5921C44E99DDD3DEDA1C85B51@HAL9007> Oh I was referring to the Image Writer. I've got Irfan - terrific program. But won't work because of screen res - even at 1920 it's a little too fuzzy. I've resurrected Snag It from an old machine and am struggling through generating the reports. Thanks to all Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 3:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Not sure what the problem is but I have the free version of inrfranview running on a 64 bit machine. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 18:28:25 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 16:28:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <0C6AA3743B114C2C9B9B916DD1CD63FD@HAL9007> Agree. Using an old copy now. Save to jpegs. In Word Insert-->Picture-->From File, in it comes. Rotate, resize and Walla. R -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for something that should be simple. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Nov 8 06:16:09 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:16:09 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5421@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5421@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <52B52AC0C97E4A8DA128712A581A312F@nant> Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. MS Excel has also a "sub-option" for 'Manual' recalculation mode: "Recalculate Workbook before saving". I would like it to be switched off by VBA code - and I can't find how. Also even with 'Manual' recalculation mode set manually, and "Recalculate Workbook before saving" set manually to false, when workbook is closed and reopened it gets all its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn - and I wanted to suppress that "automatism" completely. Do know how to do that? Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I could be out of this forum for a couple of days... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: 8 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:22 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi Samil In Excel VBA you need to use the following. You might need to set the excel application first in Access VBA, depending on how you are calling Excel. If you are using an Excel Template, you can just put then xlCalcManual code in the workbook open event instead. 1: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual 4: Application.Calculate or Application.CalculateFull 6: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationAutomatic Now you can either call them from Access VBA or for Excel VBA, depending on how you are controlling XL. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 11:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi All -- Somehow I can't get the subj working properly. How do you make MS Excel workbook recalculation/charts redrawn implemented there using VBA Automation without SendKeys - could you please post a VBA code snippet? I would like to 1) set MS Excel option of Automatic formulas recalculation off on MS Excel start-up, then; 2) open existing workbook with formulas and charts; 3) get backend db data retrieved into one or more worksheets, which cells are referred in formulas and charts; 4) run recalculation of whole workbook; 5) save workbook 6) set Automatic recalculation option back to its default 'Auto' value... I d not know how to make (1),(6) and(4) working via Automation. Please advise. Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 13:04:37 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:04:37 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project Message-ID: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows application project that can be distributed that has a single table of address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely users will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 tables). Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this job?) Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 13:14:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 14:14:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 2:04 PM, newsgrps wrote: > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows application project that > can be distributed that has a single table of address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 > tables). > > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am unsure about the database > part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both of these seem overkill in this > situation - likely users will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 tables). > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution what would be a suitable > solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool > for this job?) > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 13:24:26 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 11:24:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for testing/learning. As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of your computer if you have an older/slower computer. You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no support for forms). You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for you. As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb if you prefer. You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access as the FE. A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). HTH, David On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely users > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 > tables). > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this job?) > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 13:31:24 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:31:24 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <20111108193128.ITIA15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks John, Would 50 fields (mixture of text and numbers) and 200 records be considered small? Not having dealt with XML before, would the idea be to load the table at the beginning of a session and then save it at the end (or at regular intervals)? David At 9/11/2011, jwcolby wrote: >For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > >John W. Colby >Colby Consulting > >Reality is what refuses to go away >when you do not believe in it > >On 11/8/2011 2:04 PM, newsgrps wrote: >>This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >> >>I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple >>windows application project that >>can be distributed that has a single table of address information >>(perhaps being expanded to up to 5 >>tables). >> >>My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok >>but I am unsure about the database >>part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both >>of these seem overkill in this >>situation - likely users will not have either of these installed >>and it seems crazy to include >>runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up >>to 5 tables). >> >>Assuming that a similar application was created for actual >>distribution what would be a suitable >>solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot >>net application not the right tool >>for this job?) >> >> >>Regards >> >>David Emerson >>Dalyn Software Ltd >>Wellington, New Zealand From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 13:36:10 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:36:10 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks David, I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was thinking more of the end users and what they would need. Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed will installing Jet cause problems? David At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for >testing/learning. > >As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only >allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and >dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of >your computer if you have an older/slower computer. > >You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no >support for forms). > >You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to >check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for >you. > > >As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb if >you prefer. >You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access >as the FE. >A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although >you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). > >HTH, >David > > > >On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > > > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows > > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of > > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > > > > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am > > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server > > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely users > > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 > > tables). > > > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > this job?) > > > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 14:05:38 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:05:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: According to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Jet_Database_Engine Jet has been included in every version of Windows from Windows 2000 to Windows 7, and therefore is no longer distributed separately with the Microsoft Data Access Components(MDAC). On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks David, > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed > will installing Jet cause problems? > > David > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for >> testing/learning. >> >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. >> >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no >> support for forms). >> >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for >> you. >> >> >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb >> if >> you prefer. >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access >> as the FE. >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). >> >> HTH, >> David >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: >> >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >> > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple >> windows >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). >> > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I >> am >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL >> Server >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely >> users >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 >> > tables). >> > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this >> job?) >> > >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > David Emerson >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 14:54:55 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:54:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: My last employer used Access or SQL Server backends for their commercial .Net product. Access was included for those clients who weren't ready to go full-blown SQL Server. There was no reason for Access to be installed on the machines at all because the Jet engine was already there and that's all that was required. Charlotte Foust On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks David, > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed > will installing Jet cause problems? > > David > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for >> testing/learning. >> >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. >> >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no >> support for forms). >> >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for >> you. >> >> >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb >> if >> you prefer. >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access >> as the FE. >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). >> >> HTH, >> David >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: >> >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >> > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple >> windows >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). >> > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I >> am >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL >> Server >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely >> users >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 >> > tables). >> > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this >> job?) >> > >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > David Emerson >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 15:10:32 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 10:10:32 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111108211043.PNVI15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks. Looks like I have no excuse not to jump into the world of dot net :-) At 9/11/2011, Charlotte Foust wrote: >My last employer used Access or SQL Server backends for their commercial >.Net product. Access was included for those clients who weren't ready to >go full-blown SQL Server. There was no reason for Access to be installed >on the machines at all because the Jet engine was already there and that's >all that was required. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > > Thanks David, > > > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was > > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed > > will installing Jet cause problems? > > > > David > > > > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for > >> testing/learning. > >> > >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only > >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and > >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of > >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. > >> > >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no > >> support for forms). > >> > >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to > >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for > >> you. > >> > >> > >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb > >> if > >> you prefer. > >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access > >> as the FE. > >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although > >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). > >> > >> HTH, > >> David > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: > >> > >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > >> > > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple > >> windows > >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of > >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > >> > > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I > >> am > >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL > >> Server > >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely > >> users > >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 > >> > tables). > >> > > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this > >> job?) > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > > >> > David Emerson > >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> > Wellington, New Zealand From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 15:15:16 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 07:15:16 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Arghh! I just about lost my breakfast there. :) -- Stuart On 8 Nov 2011 at 14:14, jwcolby wrote: > For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 15:17:14 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 07:17:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108211043.PNVI15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, , <20111108211043.PNVI15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB99C5A.4470.1E233D9A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Other than the fact that it's a bloated PITA and there are much better development environments out there? :-) -- Stuart On 9 Nov 2011 at 10:10, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks. Looks like I have no excuse not to jump into the world of dot net :-) > > At 9/11/2011, Charlotte Foust wrote: > >My last employer used Access or SQL Server backends for their commercial > >.Net product. Access was included for those clients who weren't ready to > >go full-blown SQL Server. There was no reason for Access to be installed > >on the machines at all because the Jet engine was already there and that's > >all that was required. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > > > > Thanks David, > > > > > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was > > > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > > > > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > > > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed > > > will installing Jet cause problems? > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > > > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for > > >> testing/learning. > > >> > > >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only > > >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and > > >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of > > >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. > > >> > > >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no > > >> support for forms). > > >> > > >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to > > >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for > > >> you. > > >> > > >> > > >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb > > >> if > > >> you prefer. > > >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access > > >> as the FE. > > >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although > > >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). > > >> > > >> HTH, > > >> David > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > >> > > >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > >> > > > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple > > >> windows > > >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of > > >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > > >> > > > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I > > >> am > > >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL > > >> Server > > >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely > > >> users > > >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > > >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 > > >> > tables). > > >> > > > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this > > >> job?) > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Regards > > >> > > > >> > David Emerson > > >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > > >> > Wellington, New Zealand > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From kismert at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 15:23:33 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:23:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project Message-ID: > > newsgrps: > ... > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this job?) > > David, Consider SQLite: http://www.sqlite.org/ They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers -Ken From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 15:32:17 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 10:32:17 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> And the reasons for the near hasty exit of your early morning culinary delights? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 9/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >Arghh! > >I just about lost my breakfast there. :) > >-- >Stuart >On 8 Nov 2011 at 14:14, jwcolby wrote: > > > For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 15:36:15 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:36:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB99C5A.4470.1E233D9A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111108211043.PNVI15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB99C5A.4470.1E233D9A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: But tell us how you really feel, Stuart! ;-> Charlotte Foust On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Other than the fact that it's a bloated PITA and there are much better > development > environments out there? :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 Nov 2011 at 10:10, newsgrps wrote: > > > Thanks. Looks like I have no excuse not to jump into the world of dot > net :-) > > > > At 9/11/2011, Charlotte Foust wrote: > > >My last employer used Access or SQL Server backends for their commercial > > >.Net product. Access was included for those clients who weren't ready > to > > >go full-blown SQL Server. There was no reason for Access to be > installed > > >on the machines at all because the Jet engine was already there and > that's > > >all that was required. > > > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > > > >On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks David, > > > > > > > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. > I was > > > > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > > > > > > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > > > > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access > installed > > > > will installing Jet cause problems? > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > > > > > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for > > > >> testing/learning. > > > >> > > > >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it > only > > > >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than > installing and > > > >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life > out of > > > >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. > > > >> > > > >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no > > > >> support for forms). > > > >> > > > >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper > to > > > >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install > it for > > > >> you. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use > an mdb > > > >> if > > > >> you prefer. > > > >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using > Access > > > >> as the FE. > > > >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime > (although > > > >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). > > > >> > > > >> HTH, > > > >> David > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > > >> > > > > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple > > > >> windows > > > >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single > table of > > > >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > > > >> > > > > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok > but I > > > >> am > > > >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use > SQL > > > >> Server > > > >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - > likely > > > >> users > > > >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to > include > > > >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were > up to 5 > > > >> > tables). > > > >> > > > > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual > distribution > > > >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > > >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > this > > > >> job?) > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Regards > > > >> > > > > >> > David Emerson > > > >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > > > >> > Wellington, New Zealand > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 16:13:16 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 11:13:16 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks - more food for thought (lets hope Stuart doesn't choke on this one:-).) At 9/11/2011, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > > > > newsgrps: > > ... > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > this job?) > > > > >David, > >Consider SQLite: >http://www.sqlite.org/ > >They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): >http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers > >-Ken >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 16:19:09 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:19:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Suggesting XML files as a substitute for a database. That is one of the worst possible uses of the "non-solution to a non-problem" called XML -- Stuart On 9 Nov 2011 at 10:32, newsgrps wrote: > And the reasons for the near hasty exit of your early morning > culinary delights? > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > > At 9/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >Arghh! > > > >I just about lost my breakfast there. :) > > > >-- > >Stuart > >On 8 Nov 2011 at 14:14, jwcolby wrote: > > > > > For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 16:23:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:23:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: , , <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB9ABD3.32419.1E5FAD5D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No, I heartily concur with that recommendation. SQLite is an excellent solution for single user applications with moderate data storage needs. -- Stuart On 9 Nov 2011 at 11:13, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks - more food for thought (lets hope Stuart doesn't choke on this one:-).) > > > At 9/11/2011, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > > > > > > newsgrps: > > > ... > > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > > this job?) > > > > > > > >David, > > > >Consider SQLite: > >http://www.sqlite.org/ > > > >They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): > >http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers > > > >-Ken > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 16:24:41 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:24:41 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: That's the reason that I started learning how to program Androids. WM7 dropped support for WinForms and SSCE. Stupid Stupid Stupid. They want developers to redo their apps in Silverlight and XML tables. Not! On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Suggesting XML files as a substitute for a database. > > That is one of the worst possible uses of the "non-solution to a > non-problem" called XML > > -- > Stuart > > > On 9 Nov 2011 at 10:32, newsgrps wrote: > > > And the reasons for the near hasty exit of your early morning > > culinary delights? > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand > > > > At 9/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > >Arghh! > > > > > >I just about lost my breakfast there. :) > > > > > >-- > > >Stuart > > >On 8 Nov 2011 at 14:14, jwcolby wrote: > > > > > > > For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > > > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 16:55:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:55:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108193128.ITIA15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> <20111108193128.ITIA15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB9B375.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> Oh yea, performance on any modern computer would be instantaneous with that little data. It wouldn't scale well though. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 2:31 PM, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks John, > > Would 50 fields (mixture of text and numbers) and 200 records be considered small? > > Not having dealt with XML before, would the idea be to load the table at the beginning of a session > and then save it at the end (or at regular intervals)? > > David > > At 9/11/2011, jwcolby wrote: >> For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/8/2011 2:04 PM, newsgrps wrote: >>> This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >>> >>> I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows application project that >>> can be distributed that has a single table of address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 >>> tables). >>> >>> My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am unsure about the database >>> part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both of these seem overkill in this >>> situation - likely users will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include >>> runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 tables). >>> >>> Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution what would be a suitable >>> solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool >>> for this job?) >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> David Emerson >>> Dalyn Software Ltd >>> Wellington, New Zealand > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 16:57:22 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:57:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EB9B3D2.6040705@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL. I hear ya, I am not a proponent of XML, however for tiny solutions and in particular for learning stuff it works just fine. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 4:15 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Arghh! > > I just about lost my breakfast there. :) > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 16:59:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:59:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB9B43B.6060302@colbyconsulting.com> The nice thing is that you can often switch data stores with minimal code change. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 5:13 PM, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks - more food for thought (lets hope Stuart doesn't choke on this one:-).) > > > At 9/11/2011, Kenneth Ismert wrote: >> > >> > newsgrps: >> > ... >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this job?) >> > >> > >> David, >> >> Consider SQLite: >> http://www.sqlite.org/ >> >> They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): >> http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers >> >> -Ken >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 16:59:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:59:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EB9B465.2000100@colbyconsulting.com> He didn't say a database he said a table. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 5:19 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Suggesting XML files as a substitute for a database. > > That is one of the worst possible uses of the "non-solution to a non-problem" called XML > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 8 17:17:35 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 23:17:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... In-Reply-To: <52B52AC0C97E4A8DA128712A581A312F@nant> References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5421@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <52B52AC0C97E4A8DA128712A581A312F@nant> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D6E04@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hi Shamil. If Excel is in automatic mode when the workbook is opened the calculation will take place before any VBA event fires, so you cannot prevent it. You can switch to manual calc in the workbook_open event but this happens after the workbook is open. If the problem is caused by opening a workbook in a later version of excel than the version that last calculated it, you can apply a registry fix. Note that Excel sets the calculation mode from the first workbook opened in a session: when you open two workbooks, one saved in manual mode and one saved in automatic mode, they will both have the calculation mode of the first workbook opened. So based on this there may be a kludge type workaround. That is to use code to open a blank workbook and set the calculation mode to manual, and then open your 2nd workbook. This should prevent the second workbook for auto calcing on open. I have not tested this, but it should work based on the info above. You can then set calc to manual in your 'real' workbook as part of the open event using Private Sub Workbook_Open() Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual End Sub I will keep poking around. Can you tell me which version of XL you will be using for this? Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 11:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. MS Excel has also a "sub-option" for 'Manual' recalculation mode: "Recalculate Workbook before saving". I would like it to be switched off by VBA code - and I can't find how. Also even with 'Manual' recalculation mode set manually, and "Recalculate Workbook before saving" set manually to false, when workbook is closed and reopened it gets all its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn - and I wanted to suppress that "automatism" completely. Do know how to do that? Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I could be out of this forum for a couple of days... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: 8 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:22 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi Samil In Excel VBA you need to use the following. You might need to set the excel application first in Access VBA, depending on how you are calling Excel. If you are using an Excel Template, you can just put then xlCalcManual code in the workbook open event instead. 1: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual 4: Application.Calculate or Application.CalculateFull 6: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationAutomatic Now you can either call them from Access VBA or for Excel VBA, depending on how you are controlling XL. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 11:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi All -- Somehow I can't get the subj working properly. How do you make MS Excel workbook recalculation/charts redrawn implemented there using VBA Automation without SendKeys - could you please post a VBA code snippet? I would like to 1) set MS Excel option of Automatic formulas recalculation off on MS Excel start-up, then; 2) open existing workbook with formulas and charts; 3) get backend db data retrieved into one or more worksheets, which cells are referred in formulas and charts; 4) run recalculation of whole workbook; 5) save workbook 6) set Automatic recalculation option back to its default 'Auto' value... I d not know how to make (1),(6) and(4) working via Automation. Please advise. Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 17:30:54 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 09:30:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB9B465.2000100@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4EB9B465.2000100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB9BBAE.20364.1E9D9E9F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> He actually said: "single table of address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables)." Once you have 5 tables, you definitely have a database :-) -- Stuart On 8 Nov 2011 at 17:59, jwcolby wrote: > He didn't say a database he said a table. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/8/2011 5:19 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > Suggesting XML files as a substitute for a database. > > > > That is one of the worst possible uses of the "non-solution to a non-problem" called XML > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 17:42:30 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 09:42:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB9ABD3.32419.1E5FAD5D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB9ABD3.32419.1E5FAD5D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EB9BE66.30901.1EA83B6B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> If you decide to go with SQLite, check out the SQLite manager add-on for Firefox, it is a great GUI tool for managing SQLite databases -- Stuart On 9 Nov 2011 at 8:23, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > No, I heartily concur with that recommendation. > > SQLite is an excellent solution for single user applications with moderate data storage needs. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 Nov 2011 at 11:13, newsgrps wrote: > > > Thanks - more food for thought (lets hope Stuart doesn't choke on this one:-).) > > > > > > At 9/11/2011, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > > > > > > > > newsgrps: > > > > ... > > > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > > > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > > > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > > > this job?) > > > > > > > > > > >David, > > > > > >Consider SQLite: > > >http://www.sqlite.org/ > > > > > >They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): > > >http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers > > > > > >-Ken > > >-- > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Nov 9 03:29:06 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 13:29:06 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Forcing_MS_Excel_workbook_to_get=09itsformula?= =?utf-8?q?s=09recalculated_and_charts_redrawn_using_Automation=2E=2E=2E?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D6E04@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> <52B52AC0C97E4A8DA128712A581A312F@nant> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D6E04@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. I' m using MS Excel 2010. I'm working on C# Excel Automation custom solution (in principle/on conceptual COM technology level there is no any difference in coding C# or VBA MS Excel Automation). The task is to have MS Excel workbook opened, run calculations and saved. Easy of course. But workbook recalculations and charts redraw don't work properly/at all. I must note I do use OpenXML SDK 2.0 (http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=5124) to fill workbook's data in "Excel Automation free" mode - OpenXML SDK works with MS Excel workbooks on file/workbook's XML package level providing high level operations to manipulate worksheets cells' data, charts etc. After workbook's data is filled using open XML SDK I do use Automation to open workbook and to run calculations and charts redraw (Open XML SDK doesn't have functionality to run Excel calculations) - and that calculation and redraw do not work (well). It could be side-effect of using OpenXML SDK to fill workbook's data. I will work more on this issue and I will keep posting on my progress. It should be easy task, just missing something I guess... Opening MS Excel workbook using Automation, setting manual recalculation mode and related options are needed mainly for testing. Thank you. -- Shamil 09 ?????? 2011, 03:19 ?? Darryl Collins : > Hi Shamil. > > If Excel is in automatic mode when the workbook is opened the calculation will take place before any VBA event fires, so you cannot prevent it. > You can switch to manual calc in the workbook_open event but this happens after the workbook is open. > > If the problem is caused by opening a workbook in a later version of excel than the version that last calculated it, you can apply a registry fix. > > Note that Excel sets the calculation mode from the first workbook opened in a session: when you open two workbooks, one saved in manual mode and one saved in automatic mode, they will both have the calculation mode of the first workbook opened. > > So based on this there may be a kludge type workaround. That is to use code to open a blank workbook and set the calculation mode to manual, and then open your 2nd workbook. This should prevent the second workbook for auto calcing on open. I have not tested this, but it should work based on the info above. > > You can then set calc to manual in your 'real' workbook as part of the open event using > > Private Sub Workbook_Open() > Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual > End Sub > > I will keep poking around. Can you tell me which version of XL you will be using for this? > > Cheers > Darryl > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Nov 9 05:34:03 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 12:34:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project Message-ID: Hi David I would say that using XML is mostly for fun or if you need to exchange the data directly with "something else" that requires XML. Or if you somehow need manually to view or edit the data independently of your app, as this can be done with an XML tool like the simple and free XML Notepad from Microsoft. Only one file is used, thus all tables will be held in this, but records of these will be separated to fit the hierarchical structure your relations define. Thus, for example, records of order lines will be split to be stored with the orders they belong to, and the orders will again be split to fit the customers these belong to. You can then figure out that any saving of a record forces a rewrite of the full file. This, however, is very fast for small files. My recommendation would be to use the SQL Server Compact Edition. Only a small executable runs it, and SQL syntax is identical to its bigger brothers. Not that you need to write SQL - actually you should avoid it by using higher level coding like DataTables or EF (Entity Framework). Don't forget to sign up with our dba-VB list. /gustav >>> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz 08-11-2011 20:31 >>> Thanks John, Would 50 fields (mixture of text and numbers) and 200 records be considered small? Not having dealt with XML before, would the idea be to load the table at the beginning of a session and then save it at the end (or at regular intervals)? David At 9/11/2011, jwcolby wrote: >For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > >John W. Colby >Colby Consulting > >Reality is what refuses to go away >when you do not believe in it > >On 11/8/2011 2:04 PM, newsgrps wrote: >>This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >> >>I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple >>windows application project that >>can be distributed that has a single table of address information >>(perhaps being expanded to up to 5 >>tables). >> >>My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok >>but I am unsure about the database >>part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both >>of these seem overkill in this >>situation - likely users will not have either of these installed >>and it seems crazy to include >>runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up >>to 5 tables). >> >>Assuming that a similar application was created for actual >>distribution what would be a suitable >>solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot >>net application not the right tool >>for this job?) >> >> >>Regards >> >>David Emerson >>Dalyn Software Ltd >>Wellington, New Zealand From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 9 10:14:43 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 08:14:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a chance to grade their current endeavors. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it-programmer/3622?ta g=nl.e101 Jim From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Wed Nov 9 10:53:34 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 10:53:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I am resurrecting a database I created several years ago in Access 2003. On my custom menu bar on a report I have an icon to export to excel. When it exports there are columns in the excel file that are not in the report or in the query that the report is based on. What might my export to excel button be doing behind the scenes I have forgotten about? If I simply right click on the report and export the correct columns show up. Thanks. Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 11:38:23 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 12:38:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> Yep, I responded..... It might be good for younger, full-timers.... but if you are contracting and competing with the "mudmen", it really stinks...pay-wise. Couple that with the greedy agency "cuts"....and then after-taxes, can you say "slave labor" ? Recent survey shows that contracting agencies are 50% or more staffed with foreigners. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:15 AM > To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues.'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion > concerning MS SQL Server'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem > solving' > Subject: [AccessD] the IT market > > As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a > chance to grade their current endeavors. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it- > programmer/3622?ta > g=nl.e101 > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Wed Nov 9 11:41:48 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 11:41:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: Hi Chester, I've never had good luck exporting reports to Excel. Seems as the column and page headings confuse the export process and it sets up columns in the output file for those. I've sometimes been able to adjust the column and page headings to minimize this problem. But the queries themselves always export great so that is what I do. There also could be a slight variation in the version of the excel file for what is created by the menu driven option verses the code driven way. So perhaps that is catching you. Not much help really for you I'm afraid though. Best of luck getting it working to your liking. GK On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Kaup, Chester wrote: > I am resurrecting a database I created several years ago in Access 2003. On my custom menu bar on a report I have an icon to export to excel. When it exports there are columns in the excel file that are not in the report or in the query that the report is based on. What might my export to excel button be doing behind the scenes I have forgotten about? If I simply right click on the report and export the correct columns show up. > > Thanks. > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 > > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 9 14:07:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 15:07:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> Message-ID: <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> You want to get depressed? This was written in 2004. http://lieberman.senate.gov/assets/pdf/off_shoring.pdf In 2011 the process is just about complete and there are few jobs left. If you lose yours don't expect to get another. And if you get another, don't expect to keep it. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/9/2011 12:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Yep, I responded..... > It might be good for younger, full-timers.... > but if you are contracting and competing with the "mudmen", it really > stinks...pay-wise. > Couple that with the greedy agency "cuts"....and then after-taxes, can you > say "slave labor" ? > > Recent survey shows that contracting agencies are 50% or more staffed with > foreigners. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:15 AM >> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> issues.'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion >> concerning MS SQL Server'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem >> solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] the IT market >> >> As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a >> chance to grade their current endeavors. >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it- >> programmer/3622?ta >> g=nl.e101 >> >> Jim >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 14:26:48 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 15:26:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> The huge problem with any export to Excel is data timeliness....i.e. How "fresh" is the data ? Any time someone opens up the Excel workbook, the question becomes "when was this worksheet last updated from Access ?" An OLEDB Connection to any Access table or query can be generated statically within Excel or dynamically from Access using Excel automation. This guarantees data freshness and synchronization. The kicker is: not all Access Select queries will be addressable from Excel...i.e. when they contain "non-standard" SQL functions like "IIF". (This is another unforgiveable Microsoft "oversight" IMHO - there should have been an exception for Access queries !). In that case, you must go thru a "workaround" in creating a table on-the-fly from the query definition....and then perform an insert from the query result set. Of course the OLEDB connection property is always set to reference the table, not the query. On top of that, you must run that Insert query in the Excel query table BeforeQuery event ..this time with Access automation. Again, that only has to be done if the Select query is complex and not directly addressable via OLEDB. IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries Every time you open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just "there". Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever minutes....even when users are changing the data. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 9 15:02:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 07:02:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> Message-ID: <4EBAEA52.6429.4599C35@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Until you want to email the spreadsheet to someone who is not on your network. On 9 Nov 2011 at 15:26, Mark Simms wrote: > IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge > hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries > Every time you open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just > "there". Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever > minutes....even when users are changing the data. > From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Nov 9 15:02:23 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:02:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> Message-ID: <000b01cc9f22$e0c17120$a2445360$@comcast.net> Hi Mark, When I export a spreadsheet from Excel, I include the Date/Hour/Minute/Second in the name of the file. Just call this function and include the result in the file's name. You could write a timer-based Access sub to output the Excel file every X minutes (and delete the previous file). '-------------------- Public Function CurrentDateTimeString() As String Dim stgHour As String Dim stgMinute As String Dim stgSecond As String Dim dteDate As Date dteDate = CurrentDate If Len(Hour(Now())) = 1 Then stgHour = "0" & Hour(Now()) Else stgHour = Hour(Now()) End If If Len(Minute(Now())) = 1 Then stgMinute = "0" & Minute(Now()) Else stgMinute = Minute(Now()) End If If Len(Second(Now())) = 1 Then stgSecond = "0" & Second(Now()) Else stgSecond = Second(Now()) End If CurrentDateTimeString = Month(dteDate) & "-" & Day(dteDate) & "-" & Year(dteDate) & " " & stgHour & stgMinute & stgSecond Exit Function ErrEx.Bookmark = BOOKMARK_ONERROR End Function '-------------------- Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 2:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to excel The huge problem with any export to Excel is data timeliness....i.e. How "fresh" is the data ? Any time someone opens up the Excel workbook, the question becomes "when was this worksheet last updated from Access ?" An OLEDB Connection to any Access table or query can be generated statically within Excel or dynamically from Access using Excel automation. This guarantees data freshness and synchronization. The kicker is: not all Access Select queries will be addressable from Excel...i.e. when they contain "non-standard" SQL functions like "IIF". (This is another unforgiveable Microsoft "oversight" IMHO - there should have been an exception for Access queries !). In that case, you must go thru a "workaround" in creating a table on-the-fly from the query definition....and then perform an insert from the query result set. Of course the OLEDB connection property is always set to reference the table, not the query. On top of that, you must run that Insert query in the Excel query table BeforeQuery event ..this time with Access automation. Again, that only has to be done if the Select query is complex and not directly addressable via OLEDB. IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries Every time you open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just "there". Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever minutes....even when users are changing the data. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 9 15:05:18 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 07:05:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> Message-ID: <4EBAEB0E.17442.45C7709@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Or, unless you need a snapshot at one point in time. On 9 Nov 2011 at 15:26, Mark Simms wrote: > > IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge > hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries > Every time you open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just > "there". Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever > minutes....even when users are changing the data. > From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Nov 9 15:09:19 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:09:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <4EBAEB0E.17442.45C7709@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> <4EBAEB0E.17442.45C7709@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000c01cc9f23$d9016200$8b042600$@comcast.net> Give everyone a shortcut to an access database that does nothing but export that spreadsheet. The access database should automatically, open, export, and close. Walla! Snapshot in time. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 3:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to excel Or, unless you need a snapshot at one point in time. On 9 Nov 2011 at 15:26, Mark Simms wrote: > > IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge > hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries Every time you > open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just "there". > Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever minutes....even > when users are changing the data. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 9 15:38:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 16:38:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Is Silverlight going away? Message-ID: <4EBAF2DA.4000107@colbyconsulting.com> Hints that maybe... http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/09/8717108-adobe-gives-up-on-mobile-flash-focuses-on-open-web-standards Or maybe not. ;) -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 16:02:44 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 17:02:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <4EBAEA52.6429.4599C35@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> <4EBAEA52.6429.4599C35@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001601cc9f2b$4f78f900$ee6aeb00$@net> That's no problem...as with all Excel linkages that are broken, the most recent data is still there. It's just not going to update of course. > Until you want to email the spreadsheet to someone who is not on your > network. From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 16:06:16 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 17:06:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001701cc9f2b$ce187060$6a495120$@net> Interestingly, the survey results to date certainly confirms this fact: There are no "big bucks" in the profession any longer. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it-programmer/3622?ta g=nl.e101 > > You want to get depressed? This was written in 2004. > > http://lieberman.senate.gov/assets/pdf/off_shoring.pdf > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 9 16:16:45 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:16:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> Message-ID: <0FDE3ECF4B2047588F6490A9203738EB@creativesystemdesigns.com> And the resultant apps are terrible as a cheaply paid IT guy does not give a crap...he or she is not paid to care. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 9:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] the IT market Yep, I responded..... It might be good for younger, full-timers.... but if you are contracting and competing with the "mudmen", it really stinks...pay-wise. Couple that with the greedy agency "cuts"....and then after-taxes, can you say "slave labor" ? Recent survey shows that contracting agencies are 50% or more staffed with foreigners. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:15 AM > To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues.'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion > concerning MS SQL Server'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem > solving' > Subject: [AccessD] the IT market > > As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a > chance to grade their current endeavors. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it- > programmer/3622?ta > g=nl.e101 > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 9 16:26:07 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 15:26:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market Message-ID: <20111109152607.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.60f0f674d9.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> i note that the distribution of responses on the questions is roughly the same. rating scale of 1-5 - responses 2 & 3 getting 75%+ of the votes. So not too informative. wonder if the distribution woud be markedly different for other professions or if this is just a reflection of human nature. R -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [AccessD] the IT market From: "Mark Simms" Date: Wed, November 09, 2011 3:06 pm To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Interestingly, the survey results to date certainly confirms this fact: There are no "big bucks" in the profession any longer. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it-programmer/3622?ta g=nl.e101 > > You want to get depressed? This was written in 2004. > > http://lieberman.senate.gov/assets/pdf/off_shoring.pdf > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 9 16:48:07 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:48:07 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: There are now too many IT people in the market today and schools just keep cranking them out. The market just does not need any more buggy-whip or wagon wheel makers or film developers or video stores...those are all history. We were just lucky we got in early and got ahead. Most of us old guys are either skilled enough to manage the jobs, do them ourselves or are in a position to just retire (A semi-work environment until you really retire, at 85). The young guys are not in very good positions. (As I understand, Drew's position was on the way out as they were looking for a couple of young guys, unattached, that could do a lot of travelling and of course, be paid less...and also would have a full BS or BCS degree) The truth is that the only semi-secure positions are through the government. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 12:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] the IT market You want to get depressed? This was written in 2004. http://lieberman.senate.gov/assets/pdf/off_shoring.pdf In 2011 the process is just about complete and there are few jobs left. If you lose yours don't expect to get another. And if you get another, don't expect to keep it. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/9/2011 12:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Yep, I responded..... > It might be good for younger, full-timers.... > but if you are contracting and competing with the "mudmen", it really > stinks...pay-wise. > Couple that with the greedy agency "cuts"....and then after-taxes, can you > say "slave labor" ? > > Recent survey shows that contracting agencies are 50% or more staffed with > foreigners. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:15 AM >> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> issues.'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion >> concerning MS SQL Server'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem >> solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] the IT market >> >> As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a >> chance to grade their current endeavors. >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it- >> programmer/3622?ta >> g=nl.e101 >> >> Jim >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 18:51:13 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 19:51:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <0FDE3ECF4B2047588F6490A9203738EB@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> <0FDE3ECF4B2047588F6490A9203738EB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <002901cc9f42$d8ecb070$8ac61150$@net> I've witnessed this for sure. I mean, my goodness, my recent experience with MSI and their driver update program... says it all....just incredible. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 5:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] the IT market > > > And the resultant apps are terrible as a cheaply paid IT guy does not > give a > crap...he or she is not paid to care. > > Jim From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 07:14:50 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:14:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version Message-ID: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 07:58:07 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:58:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <004001cc9fb0$c69b51b0$53d1f510$@net> A heckuvan article.... A 2 week discussion over which clothes washer to buy ? Blow your horn while getting a speeding ticket ? Can you say "Obsessive / Compulsive disorder" ? This guy had some "issues". > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:15 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version > > > http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?cu > rrentPage=all > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 08:23:46 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:23:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, Interesting article. Thanks for posting the link. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 08:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?current Page=all -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 10 11:14:08 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:14:08 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Excellent article. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 5:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?current Page=all -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Nov 10 11:28:06 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:28:06 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> It takes a certain kind of person to be Jobs. Obviously he was very OCD and no saint, but, at the end of the day, it's that sort of meticulous attention to detail that has obviously been Apples success. I find it interesting how we often summarize a persons entire life and career in a few short anecdotes, but, in any case, you can look back at many personalities and see that same sort of obsessive behaviour - one that comes to mind of Walt Disney, but history is littered with them. I find it also interesting how we often imbue such people with our own preconceived and simplistic personalities - Jobs as an obsessive narcissist, Gates as a contemplative philanthropist, Zuckerberg as a young, ruthless geek, Brin/Page as quirky academic types, Ellison as a cold elitist businessman, Balmer as a maniac, etc etc? when, in reality, they are a lot more complicated than that and share a lot more in common with each other than we would like to think. This is an interesting paper on such personalities: Narcissistic Leaders: The Incredible Pros, the Inevitable Cons (Harvard Business Review) http://showsupport.typepad.com/odyssey/files/ccc-081208-macoby.pdf - Hans On 2011-11-10, at 5:14 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Thu Nov 10 11:31:25 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:31:25 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7E035@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I figured out what I did on the toolbar. I created an icon that said export to Excel but actually ran a query and then exported the results to excel. Just needed to modify the query it was running. At least we got some good discussion on exporting to Excel. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to excel Hi Chester, I've never had good luck exporting reports to Excel. Seems as the column and page headings confuse the export process and it sets up columns in the output file for those. I've sometimes been able to adjust the column and page headings to minimize this problem. But the queries themselves always export great so that is what I do. There also could be a slight variation in the version of the excel file for what is created by the menu driven option verses the code driven way. So perhaps that is catching you. Not much help really for you I'm afraid though. Best of luck getting it working to your liking. GK On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Kaup, Chester wrote: > I am resurrecting a database I created several years ago in Access 2003. On my custom menu bar on a report I have an icon to export to excel. When it exports there are columns in the excel file that are not in the report or in the query that the report is based on. What might my export to excel button be doing behind the scenes I have forgotten about? If I simply right click on the report and export the correct columns show up. > > Thanks. > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 > > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 11:34:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:34:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 7 / Access 2007 - form events cause error Message-ID: <4EBC0B2F.6050604@colbyconsulting.com> It appears that suddenly this morning Any form with an event causes an error which prevents the form from opening. I have a form which has no events and it opens. as soon as I double click the onOpen and cause the "[Event Procedure]" to be placed in the property the form refuses to open. The error is: The Expression On Open you entered as the event property setting produces the following error: Object or class does not support the set of events. This occurs in any form in any FE. I am sooooo tired of Access nonsense. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 11:36:21 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:36:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] You probably already know this (and now I do too) Message-ID: <4EBC0B95.4030301@colbyconsulting.com> Windows 7 and Access: http://allenbrowne.com/bug-17.html -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 11:48:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:48:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 7 and Access multi-versions security hooey Message-ID: <4EBC0E6A.6090006@colbyconsulting.com> I chose the first solution to modify the one registry key. Opened 2010 Access and then 2003 access (to do the reinstall thing) and I am back in business. http://allenbrowne.com/bug-17.html -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 12:15:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:15:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EBC14C4.2080607@colbyconsulting.com> This is an interesting read, however it would be even more interesting if he would expound every time he throws out a name. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/10/2011 12:28 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > > It takes a certain kind of person to be Jobs. Obviously he was very OCD and no saint, but, at the end of the day, it's that sort of meticulous attention to detail that has obviously been Apples success. I find it interesting how we often summarize a persons entire life and career in a few short anecdotes, but, in any case, you can look back at many personalities and see that same sort of obsessive behaviour - one that comes to mind of Walt Disney, but history is littered with them. > > I find it also interesting how we often imbue such people with our own preconceived and simplistic personalities - Jobs as an obsessive narcissist, Gates as a contemplative philanthropist, Zuckerberg as a young, ruthless geek, Brin/Page as quirky academic types, Ellison as a cold elitist businessman, Balmer as a maniac, etc etc? when, in reality, they are a lot more complicated than that and share a lot more in common with each other than we would like to think. > > This is an interesting paper on such personalities: > Narcissistic Leaders: The Incredible Pros, the Inevitable Cons (Harvard Business Review) > http://showsupport.typepad.com/odyssey/files/ccc-081208-macoby.pdf > > > - Hans > > > > > On 2011-11-10, at 5:14 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >> >> http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 13:21:59 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:21:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another Message-ID: Dear List: I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the target and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 14:06:44 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:06:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error Message-ID: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Dear List: Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second database, the following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' statement. db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the target and tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. and db1 is set to CurrentDb. What am I doing wrong? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 14:10:21 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:10:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net> When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some existing ones updated ? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > Dear List: > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record from > one > database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick tricks for > doing this? I have the path and file name of the target and the table > will > be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 14:13:43 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:13:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 7 / Access 2007 - form events cause error In-Reply-To: <4EBC0B2F.6050604@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBC0B2F.6050604@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <005201cc9fe5$3f59f910$be0deb30$@net> VBA Security set to "Low" ? (not recommended) > > This occurs in any form in any FE. > > I am sooooo tired of Access nonsense. From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 14:16:52 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:16:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> Message-ID: <005301cc9fe5$aff073c0$0fd15b40$@net> He had "issues" alright...but the money was right there beside them. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 14:18:22 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:18:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net> References: <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net> Message-ID: <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that match up. But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I was trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get the right syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a text box. But this is not working: db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that match the source so the source records can all be appended in one swell foop. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some existing ones updated ? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > Dear List: > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick > tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the target > and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 14:19:48 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:19:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: Can you link to the table in the other database and do an insertion using a LEFT JOIN / unmatched query? On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second database, > the > following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' statement. > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & > " > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the target > and > tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. and db1 is set > to CurrentDb. > > What am I doing wrong? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 14:57:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:57:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: <9998F5073CD443FF90873E2888DE6ED4@HAL9007> That would be second easiest solution - after a simple SQL statement. :) Guess I'll go that way next. Tks. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error Can you link to the table in the other database and do an insertion using a LEFT JOIN / unmatched query? On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second > database, the following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' > statement. > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the > target and tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. > and db1 is set to CurrentDb. > > What am I doing wrong? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 15:29:01 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:29:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 7 / Access 2007 - form events cause error In-Reply-To: <005201cc9fe5$3f59f910$be0deb30$@net> References: <4EBC0B2F.6050604@colbyconsulting.com> <005201cc9fe5$3f59f910$be0deb30$@net> Message-ID: <4EBC421D.1010602@colbyconsulting.com> Yep. It is an inability of Access to write to the registry that causes the issue. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/10/2011 3:13 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > VBA Security set to "Low" ? (not recommended) >> >> This occurs in any form in any FE. >> >> I am sooooo tired of Access nonsense. > > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 15:34:17 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:34:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: Does the tblProductStructure already exist? If so, you would have to append records rather than inserting the table. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second database, > the > following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' statement. > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & > " > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the target > and > tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. and db1 is set > to CurrentDb. > > What am I doing wrong? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 10 15:39:42 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 07:39:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> References: , <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net>, <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Any spaces in the target database's path? -- Stuart On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that match > up. > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I was > trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get the right > syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a text box. > > But this is not working: > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & > " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that match > the source so the source records can all be appended in one swell foop. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching keys > from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some existing ones > updated ? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > Dear List: > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick > > tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the target > > and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 10 15:48:54 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 07:48:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007>, <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EBC46C6.14010.9AA9964@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Also, drop the .* after tblProductStructure. On 11 Nov 2011 at 7:39, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Any spaces in the target database's path? > > -- > Stuart > > On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that match > > up. > > > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I was > > trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get the right > > syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a text box. > > > > But this is not working: > > > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & > > " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that match > > the source so the source records can all be appended in one swell foop. > > > > R > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching keys > > from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some existing ones > > updated ? > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick > > > tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the target > > > and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > 858-259-4334 > > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 15:50:25 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:50:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net>, <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <1D2950F21CFE40549C18073826427127@HAL9007> NO - but I tried it with bracketing and same result. Anyway I added a few lines of code and got it working by brute force - couple of DAO recordsets, .AddNew, loop through the source fields --> target field, .Update, walla. Done. Not elegant but effective. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another Any spaces in the target database's path? -- Stuart On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that > match up. > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I > was trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get > the right syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a text box. > > But this is not working: > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that > match the source so the source records can all be appended in one swell foop. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching > keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some > existing ones updated ? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > Dear List: > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any > > slick tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the > > target and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 20:01:02 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:01:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: Rocky, If this is the sql you are using, you need a period here tblBOMReport.* (between the tablename and the asterix. jack On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Does the tblProductStructure already exist? If so, you would have to > append records rather than inserting the table. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin >wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second database, > > the > > following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' statement. > > > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase > & > > " > > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the target > > and > > tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. and db1 is > set > > to CurrentDb. > > > > What am I doing wrong? > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From pedro at plex.nl Fri Nov 11 13:09:45 2011 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:09:45 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] altered query Message-ID: <201111111209.pABC9jws015096@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Group, why does access 2003 mutates a query from: SELECT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, COUNT(Patientnummer) AS UniekePatienten FROM (SELECT DISTINCT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, Patientnummer FROM Data2) Unieke_Pat GROUP BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam ORDER BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam; To SELECT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, COUNT(Patientnummer) AS UniekePatienten FROM [SELECT DISTINCT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, Patientnummer FROM Data2]. AS Unieke_Pat GROUP BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam ORDER BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam; When opening the query in designer mode. Pedro From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Nov 11 10:47:53 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:47:53 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] altered query Message-ID: Hi Pedro Don't know why except that it is good ol' JET SQL syntax. /gustav >>> pedro at plex.nl 11-11-2011 13:09 >>> Hello Group, why does access 2003 mutates a query from: SELECT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, COUNT(Patientnummer) AS UniekePatienten FROM (SELECT DISTINCT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, Patientnummer FROM Data2) Unieke_Pat GROUP BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam ORDER BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam; To SELECT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, COUNT(Patientnummer) AS UniekePatienten FROM [SELECT DISTINCT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, Patientnummer FROM Data2]. AS Unieke_Pat GROUP BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam ORDER BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam; When opening the query in designer mode. Pedro From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Fri Nov 11 11:07:23 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:07:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <1D2950F21CFE40549C18073826427127@HAL9007> References: , <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net>, <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <1D2950F21CFE40549C18073826427127@HAL9007> Message-ID: You missed out the required single quotes.... db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in '" & Me.txtTargetDatabase & "' SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" I.e. the full path to the destination database needs to be surrounded with single quotes. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another NO - but I tried it with bracketing and same result. Anyway I added a few lines of code and got it working by brute force - couple of DAO recordsets, .AddNew, loop through the source fields --> target field, .Update, walla. Done. Not elegant but effective. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another Any spaces in the target database's path? -- Stuart On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that > match up. > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I > was trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get > the right syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a > text box. > > But this is not working: > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that > match the source so the source records can all be appended in one > swell foop. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching > keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some > existing ones updated ? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > Dear List: > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any > > slick tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the > > target and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Fri Nov 11 11:19:46 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:19:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: When appending, it is INSERT INTO TableName(Field, OtherField) In 'X:\SomePath\SomeFile.ext' SELECT Atable.Field, Atable.OtherField FROM Atable But for Make Tables it is SELECT Atable.Field, Atable.OtherField INTO SomeTable IN 'X:\SomePath\SomeFile.ext' FROM Atable But if all fields are being appended you don't need to specify the field names in parentheses So Rocky's solution would in fact be db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in '" & Me.txtTargetDatabase & "' SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" You can find all this out by imply building the query in design mode and then selecting 'Append' or 'Make-Table' fro the menus and choosing the 'Another Database' radio button in the dialog box. Then just look at the SQL Access has built for you. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error Does the tblProductStructure already exist? If so, you would have to append records rather than inserting the table. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second > database, the following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' > statement. > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the > target and tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. > and db1 is set to CurrentDb. > > What am I doing wrong? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Nov 11 12:10:21 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:10:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: References: , <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net>, <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007><4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><1D2950F21CFE40549C18073826427127@HAL9007> Message-ID: <53B73E82B26F462E8169515752FFDCD4@HAL9007> Aha! Thank you. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 9:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another You missed out the required single quotes.... db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in '" & Me.txtTargetDatabase & "' SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" I.e. the full path to the destination database needs to be surrounded with single quotes. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another NO - but I tried it with bracketing and same result. Anyway I added a few lines of code and got it working by brute force - couple of DAO recordsets, .AddNew, loop through the source fields --> target field, .Update, walla. Done. Not elegant but effective. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another Any spaces in the target database's path? -- Stuart On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that > match up. > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I > was trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get > the right syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a > text box. > > But this is not working: > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that > match the source so the source records can all be appended in one > swell foop. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching > keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some > existing ones updated ? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > Dear List: > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any > > slick tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the > > target and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 13:38:45 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:38:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Friday humor:SQL query problem Message-ID: http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Query-of-Despair.aspx Doug From davidmcafee at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 15:05:55 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:05:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Friday humor:SQL query problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I like the comment: "The problem is on page 4, line 27. Isn't that obvious to everyone? " On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Doug Steele wrote: > http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Query-of-Despair.aspx > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Nov 11 15:51:24 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:51:24 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Forcing_MS_Excel_workbook_to_get=09itsformula?= =?utf-8?q?s=09recalculated_and_charts_redrawn_using_Automation=2E=2E=2E?= In-Reply-To: References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D6E04@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- I have solved the issue - it was caused by improper OpenXML SDK 2.0 calls, when fixed C# -> MS Excel automated workbook recalculation started to work OK. Thank you for your help. -- Shamil 09 ?????? 2011, 13:31 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil : > Hi Darryl -- > > Thank you for your reply. > I' m using MS Excel 2010. > I'm working on C# Excel Automation custom solution (in principle/on conceptual COM technology level there is no any difference in coding C# or VBA MS Excel Automation). > The task is to have MS Excel workbook opened, run calculations and saved. > Easy of course. But workbook recalculations and charts redraw don't work properly/at all. > I must note I do use OpenXML SDK 2.0 (http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=5124) to fill workbook's data in "Excel Automation free" mode - OpenXML SDK works with MS Excel workbooks on file/workbook's XML package level providing high level operations to manipulate worksheets cells' data, charts etc. > After workbook's data is filled using open XML SDK I do use Automation to open workbook and to run calculations and charts redraw (Open XML SDK doesn't have functionality to run Excel calculations) - and that calculation and redraw do not work (well). > It could be side-effect of using OpenXML SDK to fill workbook's data. > I will work more on this issue and I will keep posting on my progress. > It should be easy task, just missing something I guess... > > Opening MS Excel workbook using Automation, setting manual recalculation mode and related options are needed mainly for testing. > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 09 ?????? 2011, 03:19 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Hi Shamil. > > > > If Excel is in automatic mode when the workbook is opened the calculation will take place before any VBA event fires, so you cannot prevent it. > > You can switch to manual calc in the workbook_open event but this happens after the workbook is open. > > > > If the problem is caused by opening a workbook in a later version of excel than the version that last calculated it, you can apply a registry fix. > > > > Note that Excel sets the calculation mode from the first workbook opened in a session: when you open two workbooks, one saved in manual mode and one saved in automatic mode, they will both have the calculation mode of the first workbook opened. > > > > So based on this there may be a kludge type workaround. That is to use code to open a blank workbook and set the calculation mode to manual, and then open your 2nd workbook. This should prevent the second workbook for auto calcing on open. I have not tested this, but it should work based on the info above. > > > > You can then set calc to manual in your 'real' workbook as part of the open event using > > > > Private Sub Workbook_Open() > > Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual > > End Sub > > > > I will keep poking around. Can you tell me which version of XL you will be using for this? > > > > Cheers > > Darryl > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 11 17:00:23 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 09:00:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny In-Reply-To: <4EB45B66.31477.99D6FF3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com>, , <4EB45B66.31477.99D6FF3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EBDA907.20512.F126DED@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And a further explanation of licencing: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/11/bofh_2011_episode_18/ On 5 Nov 2011 at 7:38, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > What version numbers really mean: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/04/bofh_2011_episode_17/ > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 11 18:07:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 19:07:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Friday humor:SQL query problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EBDB8AF.1000404@colbyconsulting.com> You laugh. I have a *potential* client which has a peachtree installation. It uses a SQL Server query to pull aggregate data. The queru looks just about like that. And... it is in SQL Server 2000 TSQL which is... antiquated syntax. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/11/2011 2:38 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Query-of-Despair.aspx > > Doug From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 01:12:03 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 02:12:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny In-Reply-To: <4EBDA907.20512.F126DED@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB45B66.31477.99D6FF3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EBDA907.20512.F126DED@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Yikes! Someone has now demanded payments for using my keyboard and mouse. On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:00 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > And a further explanation of licencing: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/11/bofh_2011_episode_18/ > > > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Nov 12 01:18:13 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 00:18:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny Message-ID: <20111112001813.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.ba3509efd7.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Don't let them use it! (English is such an odd language) R -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny From: Arthur Fuller Date: Sat, November 12, 2011 12:12 am To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Yikes! Someone has now demanded payments for using my keyboard and mouse. On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:00 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > And a further explanation of licencing: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/11/bofh_2011_episode_18/ > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 06:27:54 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 07:27:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Country Regions Message-ID: I already have the ISO list of countries. I would now like a list of CountryRegions (thereby sidestepping the issue of whether we call them States or Provinces or Cantons, etc.). Does anyone know of such a list and if so, a download URL? -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 08:26:40 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 09:26:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Message-ID: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012-licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from clients and massive switching to MySQL and the likes. I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Sat Nov 12 09:28:36 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 10:28:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Country Regions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Arthur, This may be a starting point http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2 jack -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 7:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Cc: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [AccessD] Country Regions I already have the ISO list of countries. I would now like a list of CountryRegions (thereby sidestepping the issue of whether we call them States or Provinces or Cantons, etc.). Does anyone know of such a list and if so, a download URL? -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 12 09:39:11 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 10:39:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with Oracle... This is so "Balmer-like". > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more > expensive > > http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012- > licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ > > The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL > Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. > > I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from > clients and massive > switching to MySQL and the likes. > > I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 09:54:27 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 10:54:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Country Regions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks! You're right: it's a starting point. Normalization required LOL. But that said, once I'm finished with the normalization, I'll make the result available for everyone. A. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Jack and Pat wrote: > Arthur, > > This may be a starting point > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2 > > jack > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 10:11:26 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 11:11:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a complete waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, and I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be dealt with in a VM. So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. You don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of December. Wow. Party hearty. Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist government, I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of Lucky MoFus. Arthur On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. > IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the > ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. > Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with Oracle... > This is so "Balmer-like". > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more > > expensive > > > > http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012- > > licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ > > > > The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL > > Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. > > > > I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from > > clients and massive > > switching to MySQL and the likes. > > > > I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 10:47:51 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 11:47:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> Arthur, Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play in MariaDB. Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both times. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. > See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the > last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a complete > waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, and > I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu > and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs > inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so > the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be dealt > with in a VM. > > So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. You > don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a > semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated > December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net > connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of > December. Wow. Party hearty. > > Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist government, > I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of Lucky > MoFus. > > Arthur > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with Oracle... >> This is so "Balmer-like". >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>> expensive >>> >>> http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012- >>> licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ >>> >>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>> >>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>> clients and massive >>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>> >>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 12:35:30 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 13:35:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other sources (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) What I do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: mounts the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far yet On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolby wrote: > Arthur, > > Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V > is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to > switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play > in MariaDB. > > Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in > Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both > times. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > >> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. >> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the >> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >> complete >> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >> and >> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so >> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >> dealt >> with in a VM. >> >> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >> You >> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net >> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >> December. Wow. Party hearty. >> >> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >> government, >> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >> Lucky >> MoFus. >> >> Arthur >> >> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >> wrote: >> >> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>> Oracle... >>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com[mailto: >>>> accessd- >>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>> expensive >>>> >>>> http://sqlserverperformance.**wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-** >>>> server-2012- >>>> licensing-and-hardware-**considerations/ >>>> >>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>> >>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>>> clients and massive >>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>> >>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John W. Colby >>>> Colby Consulting >>>> >>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>> when you do not believe in it >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>> >>> >> >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 13:26:28 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 14:26:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> I am downloading 4 different distros. Every one claims to just fire up and go. We shall see. Of course getting MariaDb to go after that is one more thing to make happen. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 1:35 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that > Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other sources > (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) What I > do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the > downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: mounts > the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) > > Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far yet > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolbywrote: > >> Arthur, >> >> Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V >> is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to >> switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play >> in MariaDB. >> >> Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in >> Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both >> times. >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >> >>> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. >>> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the >>> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >>> complete >>> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >>> and >>> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >>> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >>> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so >>> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >>> dealt >>> with in a VM. >>> >>> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >>> You >>> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >>> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >>> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net >>> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >>> December. Wow. Party hearty. >>> >>> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >>> government, >>> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >>> Lucky >>> MoFus. >>> >>> Arthur >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >>> wrote: >>> >>> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>>> Oracle... >>>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com[mailto: >>>>> accessd- >>>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>>> expensive >>>>> >>>>> http://sqlserverperformance.**wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-** >>>>> server-2012- >>>>> licensing-and-hardware-**considerations/ >>>>> >>>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>>> >>>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>>>> clients and massive >>>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>>> >>>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> John W. Colby >>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>> >>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >> > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 14:30:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:30:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> Fedora just hung showing the pretty submarine. It can't shutdown, power down only. Won't release the virtual cd so that I can install the tools. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I am downloading 4 different distros. Every one claims to just fire up and go. We shall see. Of > course getting MariaDb to go after that is one more thing to make happen. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/12/2011 1:35 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >> I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that >> Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other sources >> (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) What I >> do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the >> downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: mounts >> the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) >> >> Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far yet >> >> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolbywrote: >> >>> Arthur, >>> >>> Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V >>> is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to >>> switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play >>> in MariaDB. >>> >>> Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in >>> Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both >>> times. >>> >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>> >>>> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. >>>> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the >>>> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >>>> complete >>>> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >>>> and >>>> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >>>> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >>>> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so >>>> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >>>> dealt >>>> with in a VM. >>>> >>>> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >>>> You >>>> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >>>> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >>>> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net >>>> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >>>> December. Wow. Party hearty. >>>> >>>> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >>>> government, >>>> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >>>> Lucky >>>> MoFus. >>>> >>>> Arthur >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>>>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>>>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>>>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>>>> Oracle... >>>>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com[mailto: >>>>>> accessd- >>>>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>>>> expensive >>>>>> >>>>>> http://sqlserverperformance.**wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-** >>>>>> server-2012- >>>>>> licensing-and-hardware-**considerations/ >>>>>> >>>>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>>>> >>>>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>>>>> clients and massive >>>>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>> >> >> >> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 14:36:04 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:36:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I was never a big fan of Fedora; same problems as you. Ubuntu and Mint are my chosen paths. A. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 3:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Fedora just hung showing the pretty submarine. It can't shutdown, power > down only. Won't release the virtual cd so that I can install the tools. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> I am downloading 4 different distros. Every one claims to just fire up >> and go. We shall see. Of >> course getting MariaDb to go after that is one more thing to make happen. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/12/2011 1:35 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >> >>> I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that >>> Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other >>> sources >>> (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) >>> What I >>> do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the >>> downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: >>> mounts >>> the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) >>> >>> Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far >>> yet >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolby >>> >wrote: >>> >>> Arthur, >>>> >>>> Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V >>>> is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to >>>> switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play >>>> in MariaDB. >>>> >>>> Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in >>>> Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both >>>> times. >>>> >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> Colby Consulting >>>> >>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>> when you do not believe in it >>>> >>>> On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>>> >>>> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small >>>>> DBs. >>>>> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent >>>>> the >>>>> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >>>>> complete >>>>> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >>>>> and >>>>> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >>>>> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >>>>> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system >>>>> so >>>>> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >>>>> dealt >>>>> with in a VM. >>>>> >>>>> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >>>>> You >>>>> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >>>>> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >>>>> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, >>>>> net >>>>> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >>>>> December. Wow. Party hearty. >>>>> >>>>> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >>>>> government, >>>>> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >>>>> Lucky >>>>> MoFus. >>>>> >>>>> Arthur >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>>>> >>>>>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>>>>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>>>>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>>>>> Oracle... >>>>>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvi**sors.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >[mailto: >>>>>>> accessd- >>>>>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>>>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>>>>> expensive >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://sqlserverperformance.****wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-**** >>>>>>> server-2012->>>>>> wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-**server-2012- >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> licensing-and-hardware-****considerations/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>>>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> clients and massive >>>>>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com>>>>>> databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com>>>>> databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com>>> databaseadvisors.com > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 15:14:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:14:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EBEE1A7.5030700@colbyconsulting.com> OpenSUSE Showed promise. Seemed to install. Turned into a black screen. Shutdown, turned it back on and I am at a pretty green desktop with folder icons. Linux Integration Service doesn't just install... It seems in fact that the Linux Integration Service only works on a small handful of distros. Now I remember why I stopped trying... ;) John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 3:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Fedora just hung showing the pretty submarine. It can't shutdown, power down only. Won't release the > virtual cd so that I can install the tools. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> I am downloading 4 different distros. Every one claims to just fire up and go. We shall see. Of >> course getting MariaDb to go after that is one more thing to make happen. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/12/2011 1:35 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>> I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that >>> Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other sources >>> (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) What I >>> do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the >>> downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: mounts >>> the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) >>> >>> Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far yet >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolbywrote: >>> >>>> Arthur, >>>> >>>> Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V >>>> is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to >>>> switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play >>>> in MariaDB. >>>> >>>> Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in >>>> Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both >>>> times. >>>> >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> Colby Consulting >>>> >>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>> when you do not believe in it >>>> >>>> On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. >>>>> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the >>>>> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >>>>> complete >>>>> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >>>>> and >>>>> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >>>>> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >>>>> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so >>>>> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >>>>> dealt >>>>> with in a VM. >>>>> >>>>> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >>>>> You >>>>> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >>>>> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >>>>> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net >>>>> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >>>>> December. Wow. Party hearty. >>>>> >>>>> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >>>>> government, >>>>> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >>>>> Lucky >>>>> MoFus. >>>>> >>>>> Arthur >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>>>>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>>>>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>>>>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>>>>> Oracle... >>>>>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com[mailto: >>>>>>> accessd- >>>>>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>>>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>>>>> expensive >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://sqlserverperformance.**wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-** >>>>>>> server-2012- >>>>>>> licensing-and-hardware-**considerations/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>>>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>>>>>> clients and massive >>>>>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> >>>> >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>> >>> >>> >>> From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 12 15:16:44 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:16:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> The only problem with open source: Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be competitive ? Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major build is released.... you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I don't know what is. In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. Is anyone cheering ? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 15:31:03 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:31:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBEE597.4030404@colbyconsulting.com> Of course had I used VMWare as the hypervisor none of this would be a problem... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 15:32:10 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:32:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBEE5DA.1090609@colbyconsulting.com> > Is anyone cheering ? Nope, not me. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 12 15:49:24 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 07:49:24 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com>, , <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBEE9E4.2500.13F7D11C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You mean I can get requisite and timely support from MS if I stay with them? ROTFLMAO. -- Stuart On 12 Nov 2011 at 16:16, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 16:04:08 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 17:04:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: JC: SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to suit this; c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that you have the boot discs for same). At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other Linux db. I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack of DVDs). A. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major > build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 12 16:22:02 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 14:22:02 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: You can buy a 2 Terabyte external HD for $89 or less now...will be significantly faster and more flexible than going the DVD route. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 2:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive JC: SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to suit this; c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that you have the boot discs for same). At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other Linux db. I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack of DVDs). A. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major > build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 19:41:14 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 20:41:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBF203A.5030205@colbyconsulting.com> > You can buy a 2 Terabyte external HD for $89 or less now...will be significantly faster and more flexible than going the DVD route. There's someone out of touch with global warming / floods in Thailand. ;) John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 5:22 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > You can buy a 2 Terabyte external HD for $89 or less now...will be > significantly faster and more flexible than going the DVD route. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 2:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > moreexpensive > > JC: > > SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: > > a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or > 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. > b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to > suit this; > c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; > d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox > (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). > e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that > you have the boot discs for same). > > At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to > x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. > > At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so > in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit > (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, > but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native > boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, > isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. > > One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code > can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered > me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a > single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other > Linux db. > > I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when > I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That > gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack > of DVDs). > > A. > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> The only problem with open source: >> Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be >> competitive ? >> Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major >> build >> is released.... >> you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I >> don't know what is. >> In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that >> mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. >> >> MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty > darn >> good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. >> That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many >> major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of >> hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel >> 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. >> The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. >> Is anyone cheering ? >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 20:16:28 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 21:16:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBF287C.9080101@colbyconsulting.com> In fact I have gotten rid of all my old hardware. When I moved to VMs I no longer needed all those other machines. I just upgraded my VM Server to AM3+ and DDR3 but gave the old AM2+ MB and DDR2 memory to Paul to put to work as a Unraid backup system for his house. So I have no extra hardware to throw at this. I am thinking about moving the VMs down to Azul, the mongo 16 core server. Two out of three VMs would reside there quite happily. The third needs high core speed and the server cores run at 2 ghz. Plus it needs fast SSD and I would need to migrate that into the Azul box as well. It really makes sense to host most of my current VMs there but for that one somewhat high requirement system. I haven't given up on the idea but implementing it is not trivial. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 5:04 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > JC: > > SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: > > a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or > 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. > b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to > suit this; > c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; > d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox > (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). > e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that > you have the boot discs for same). > > At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to > x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. > > At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so > in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit > (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, > but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native > boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, > isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. > > One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code > can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered > me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a > single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other > Linux db. > > I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when > I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That > gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack > of DVDs). > > A. > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> The only problem with open source: >> Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be >> competitive ? >> Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major >> build >> is released.... >> you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I >> don't know what is. >> In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that >> mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. >> >> MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn >> good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. >> That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many >> major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of >> hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel >> 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. >> The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. >> Is anyone cheering ? >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Nov 13 11:49:47 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 21:49:47 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?ore_expensive?= In-Reply-To: References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi Arthur -- > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > Everything works just ducky. > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? Thank you. -- Shamil 13 ?????? 2011, 02:05 ?? Arthur Fuller : > JC: > > SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: > > a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or > 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. > b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to > suit this; > c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; > d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox > (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). > e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that > you have the boot discs for same). > > At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to > x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. > > At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so > in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit > (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, > but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native > boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, > isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. > > One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code > can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered > me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a > single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other > Linux db. > > I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when > I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That > gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack > of DVDs). > > A. > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun Nov 13 12:20:29 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 13:20:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. A. On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Arthur -- > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > Everything works just ducky. > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > From edzedz at comcast.net Sun Nov 13 17:44:05 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:44:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AppHangB1 Error for MsAccess 2003 on Windows-7 64 bit Message-ID: <000001cca25e$21a32fb0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Has anyone seen a error like this and has an idea on how to elimate it ? Thanks. . . ====================================================== Someone in another forum asked it it was an HP or a Dell. The machine in question is an Acer, but the AppHangB1 error seems to be endemic to many Office products besides Ms-Access, regardless of make or model of the hardware. Thus my sense is it something more than something an OEM might have installed on the computer. I compress the MDB and even used the /decompile. None of the tables are linked. Office 2003 been upgraded to SP3. The solution in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2397391 method 2, does mitigate the problem, but doesn't eliminate it. One of the choices from the right click on the MsAccess.exe menu is to run in XP mode. That further reduces the occurrence of the AppHangB1 problem. Also the same has been done to Word and Excel and well as the MDB file. Using Windows-7 64-bit, 4 gigs memory, dual Intel processor, Ms Access 2003 SP3 32-bit - with an large application seems to hang on large queries giving an AppHangB1 error. Page file to 15000 since it is Windows-7 Pro. dbMaxLocksPerFile set to (2^20) or 1048576. Follows is what is seen by the user when the problem occurs: When that happens I tell the customer to just click, allow to continue. ====================================================== Description: A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows. Problem signature: Problem Event Name: AppHangB1 Application Name: MSACCESS.EXE Application Version: 11.0.8166.0 Application Timestamp: 46437912 Hang Signature: 8308 Hang Type: 0 OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48 Locale ID: 1033 Additional Hang Signature 1: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 2: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 3: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Additional Hang Signature 4: 8308 Additional Hang Signature 5: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 6: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 7: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Read our privacy statement online: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=104288&clcid=0x0409 If the online privacy statement is not available, please read our privacy statement offline: C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt ====================================================== From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 08:24:21 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:24:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AppHangB1 Error for MsAccess 2003 on Windows-7 64 bit In-Reply-To: <000001cca25e$21a32fb0$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <000001cca25e$21a32fb0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <003501cca2d9$1ae21990$50a64cb0$@net> Does it occur in Office 2007 or 2010 ? If not, it's time to upgrade. I think the analogy is : You've got an antiquated transmission installed and running in a brand new Ferrari. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 14 10:12:17 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 08:12:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Message-ID: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> Dear Lists: I am considering upgrading a commercial product from Access 2003 to Access 2010 (loathe as I am to develop in 2010 - I guess it's time). Although most of the target market has Office with Access, so I can distribute an mde, some do not so I have always had a run-time version available as an option. I have used the Wise/Sagekey combo for this purpose for may years. (IIRC, the market for Sagekey was motivated in no measure by the poor implementation of run-time deployments in A2000 and A2003.) I have seen references to a run-time deployment in A2010 being much improved. If I can avoid purchasing the Sagekey 2010 script and using Wise I would prefer that - it would make life much simpler. So I am looking for experiences/comments/feedback/benefits/drawbacks, etc., on the effectiveness of the A2010 run-time deployment. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 10:52:54 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:52:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> Message-ID: <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> Sorry, I cannot answer this directly. But one huge issue is: has the run-time version kept-up with all of the fixes to the full version ? Hopefully, MSFT engineers just have 2 separate solutions that share the same code base....and all they have to do is recompile to sync the runtime with the full. I'm not sure of that however. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 14 10:58:37 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 08:58:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> Message-ID: <9DB2A1BF4C9C446DAE7F9F96539AEA68@HAL9007> Mark - same mde with or without Access. I just deliver the run time with all the required dlls and those who have Access get just the mde. The Sagekey script takes care of installing and registering the dlls. (Both have demo and empty back ends, icon, etc.) Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 8:53 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Sorry, I cannot answer this directly. But one huge issue is: has the run-time version kept-up with all of the fixes to the full version ? Hopefully, MSFT engineers just have 2 separate solutions that share the same code base....and all they have to do is recompile to sync the runtime with the full. I'm not sure of that however. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 14 11:20:44 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:20:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> Message-ID: <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> What I have read is that the runtime is the full version with registry entries which lobotomize it. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 11:52 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Sorry, I cannot answer this directly. > But one huge issue is: has the run-time version kept-up with all of the > fixes to the full version ? > > Hopefully, MSFT engineers just have 2 separate solutions that share the same > code base....and all they have to do is recompile to sync the runtime with > the full. I'm not sure of that however. > > > From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Nov 14 11:35:52 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:35:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> Message-ID: <00cb01cca2f3$db540110$91fc0330$@cox.net> Rocky, I think the runtime installer is more robust and would work if you never had to deal with other versions of Office being on the client machine and the various security issues with Windows Vista and 7. What Sagekey brings to the game is having a system that can accommodate whatever the customer has and play nicely with it. The new Sagekey scripts work with MSI and don't require Wise as I understand. We are still using the Access 2000 runtime and scripts. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 8:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Off Topic'; List Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Dear Lists: I am considering upgrading a commercial product from Access 2003 to Access 2010 (loathe as I am to develop in 2010 - I guess it's time). Although most of the target market has Office with Access, so I can distribute an mde, some do not so I have always had a run-time version available as an option. I have used the Wise/Sagekey combo for this purpose for may years. (IIRC, the market for Sagekey was motivated in no measure by the poor implementation of run-time deployments in A2000 and A2003.) I have seen references to a run-time deployment in A2010 being much improved. If I can avoid purchasing the Sagekey 2010 script and using Wise I would prefer that - it would make life much simpler. So I am looking for experiences/comments/feedback/benefits/drawbacks, etc., on the effectiveness of the A2010 run-time deployment. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 12:05:19 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:05:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3D426E72FDC04C50A4CFF0DD867DD9AA@XPS> Always been that way all the way back to day 1. When you use the runtime version, your using the same MSACCESS.EXE and everything else. In fact you can take the full version and start it with the /runtime switch to get a runtime environment. Prior to Windows 95, it wasn't done via registry, but it was still the same .EXE Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 12:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) What I have read is that the runtime is the full version with registry entries which lobotomize it. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 11:52 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Sorry, I cannot answer this directly. > But one huge issue is: has the run-time version kept-up with all of the > fixes to the full version ? > > Hopefully, MSFT engineers just have 2 separate solutions that share the same > code base....and all they have to do is recompile to sync the runtime with > the full. I'm not sure of that however. > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 12:06:49 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:06:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> Message-ID: I would still figure on using the Wise/Sagekey distribution. Keeps things nice and neat. A2010 still goes through the setup and configuration deal if any other version of Access is opened before it. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 11:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Off Topic'; List Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Dear Lists: I am considering upgrading a commercial product from Access 2003 to Access 2010 (loathe as I am to develop in 2010 - I guess it's time). Although most of the target market has Office with Access, so I can distribute an mde, some do not so I have always had a run-time version available as an option. I have used the Wise/Sagekey combo for this purpose for may years. (IIRC, the market for Sagekey was motivated in no measure by the poor implementation of run-time deployments in A2000 and A2003.) I have seen references to a run-time deployment in A2010 being much improved. If I can avoid purchasing the Sagekey 2010 script and using Wise I would prefer that - it would make life much simpler. So I am looking for experiences/comments/feedback/benefits/drawbacks, etc., on the effectiveness of the A2010 run-time deployment. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 14 13:46:05 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:46:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Reports vs SQL Server Reporting Services References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> Message-ID: Over the past two years, I have used Access 2007 to create a variety of reports. The data for these reports comes from a variety of data sources (Access, Excel, flat files, SQL Server, Pervasive Database, Firebird Database, etc). I REALLY like the report writer that is built into Access 2007. Recently the topic of SQL Server Reporting Services has come up. Even though I can access data from SQL Server (outside provider), I currently do not have access to SQL Server Reporting Services. I am curious if anyone here on the AccessD forum has worked with this facility. How does SS Reporting Services stack up against Access 2007 Reports? Is it possible to pull data from various sources into SS Reporting Services, like we can do with Access? Thanks, Brad From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 13:54:58 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:54:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <3D426E72FDC04C50A4CFF0DD867DD9AA@XPS> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> <3D426E72FDC04C50A4CFF0DD867DD9AA@XPS> Message-ID: <002a01cca307$4a6c6ca0$df4545e0$@net> Yes Jim, I understand that....but what if you download the Access 2010 runtime ? Does it always have the version identified with the latest updated full release ? Previously this may not have been a big deal, but with all of the quirks and foibles of 2010, it can be an issue.... i.e. you test with the full version, then deploy to users with the runtime version....and then things stop working. > In fact you can take the full version and start it with the /runtime > switch > to get a runtime environment. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 14 14:51:41 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:51:41 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?ore_expensive?= In-Reply-To: References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: Thank you, Arthur, I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... -- Shamil 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard disks > and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard disk with a > mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the flash-memory sticks: a pair > of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting the new version of Solaris on one > of them. > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point of > running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have with my > setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu VM and also > the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but each instance > opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this approach leads to > less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to > consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > A. > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > > > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 14 20:20:25 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 02:20:25 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Well, Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Thank you, Arthur, I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... -- Shamil 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting > the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point > of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have > with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu > VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but > each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this > approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in > two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > A. > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then > > > running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run > > > various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 14 21:10:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:10:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> Darryl, I want to discuss this. My client just brought up an 8 core AMD server with 16 gigs of ram, just in time to hear about MS deciding that $8K / core is a fair license price. I don't think that $64K for a CPU license is at all fair. Since we were just getting ready to move Access to SQL Server (but haven't yet) I am proposing that we take a hard right to MySQL / MariaDb. I wish I could have persuaded the to take an about face to Linux from an old Windows 2003 license. This is a small company, 50 employees and MS is getting massively expensive for a company this size or smaller. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 9:20 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller: >> My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. >> On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the >> workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard >> disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard >> disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the >> flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting >> the new version of Solaris on one of them. >> >> I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point >> of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have >> with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu >> VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but >> each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this >> approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in >> two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. >> >> A. >> >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: >> >>> Hi Arthur -- >>> >>>> At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then >>>> running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run >>>> various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. >>>> Everything works just ducky. >>>> ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. >>> >>> May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 21:22:19 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:22:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000f01cca345$c8dc1840$5a9448c0$@net> John - I really hear this stuff and wonder if MSFT isn't brain-dead sometimes ;) I doubt seriously that the licensing for a <50 person corp is NOT negotiable. MSFT is just testing the waters with that kind of licensing fee IMHO. > I want to discuss this. My client just brought up an 8 core AMD server > with 16 gigs of ram, just in > time to hear about MS deciding that $8K / core is a fair license price. > I don't think that $64K > for a CPU license is at all fair. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 14 21:47:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:47:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000f01cca345$c8dc1840$5a9448c0$@net> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <000f01cca345$c8dc1840$5a9448c0$@net> Message-ID: <4EC1E0C1.8080908@colbyconsulting.com> > I doubt seriously that the licensing for a<50 person corp is NOT negotiable. MSFT is just testing the waters with that kind of licensing fee IMHO. I would guess so. The problem is that once you dive in to the water you are in for the long haul. Free? Not?? I can run MySQL on Windows 2008 and have a full on server with most of the bells and whistles. the cost is in coming up to speed in a new environment, but once done then it is very low cost. Or I can run MSSQL. They were already balking (unable to afford really) the $8K or so for the SQL Server Standard Edition. But we are about to move a full system, ~200 tables to something. Moving that big a database is going to be time consuming and expensive just in migration costs and testing. Do I move it to SQL Server 2008 Express? That doesn't seem a good bet. Do I move to SQl Server 2008 Standard and get locked in only to have MS really whack them around in the 2011 license costs? Or do I make the break and just go MySQL (or something else)? I am recommending that we just make a clean break right now. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 10:22 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > John - I really hear this stuff and wonder if MSFT isn't brain-dead sometimes > ;) > I doubt seriously that the licensing for a<50 person corp is NOT negotiable. > MSFT is just testing the waters with that kind of licensing fee IMHO. > >> I want to discuss this. My client just brought up an 8 core AMD server >> with 16 gigs of ram, just in >> time to hear about MS deciding that $8K / core is a fair license price. >> I don't think that $64K >> for a CPU license is at all fair. > > From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 14 22:12:16 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:12:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> John: All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case that you ever became completely stuck. It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. ;-) To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have found they had little trouble adjusting. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 7:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive Darryl, I want to discuss this. My client just brought up an 8 core AMD server with 16 gigs of ram, just in time to hear about MS deciding that $8K / core is a fair license price. I don't think that $64K for a CPU license is at all fair. Since we were just getting ready to move Access to SQL Server (but haven't yet) I am proposing that we take a hard right to MySQL / MariaDb. I wish I could have persuaded the to take an about face to Linux from an old Windows 2003 license. This is a small company, 50 employees and MS is getting massively expensive for a company this size or smaller. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 9:20 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller: >> My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. >> On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the >> workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard >> disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard >> disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the >> flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting >> the new version of Solaris on one of them. >> >> I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point >> of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have >> with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu >> VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but >> each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this >> approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in >> two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. >> >> A. >> >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: >> >>> Hi Arthur -- >>> >>>> At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then >>>> running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run >>>> various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. >>>> Everything works just ducky. >>>> ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. >>> >>> May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 14 22:49:12 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:49:12 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC1E0C1.8080908@colbyconsulting.com> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <000f01cca345$c8dc1840$5a9448c0$@net> <4EC1E0C1.8080908@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <6558FCA06665411F8D9EF674900DFC81@creativesystemdesigns.com> I second that thought. The only reason I was holding on to MS was because of their MS Access product, which at the time of its creation had a more than adequate DB, an excellent user interface and had a great reporting engine. It appears now that the product is become more crippled, as MS is no longer willing or able to provide sufficient resources to keep their product stable or able to handle the current data requirements. That is really too bad as MS Access is being allowed to die. MS has had two things going for it. One, a great application platform and two, a great Office application to run on that platform. Microsoft is now being hit from two directions. One, Linux has always been a very stable server product but now the same can be said for their desktops, add to that low cost Open Office products. When we come to database support for Linux this is where you hit the mother lode. There are numerous DBs of every size and complexity and many of them are very mature and have excellent interfaces and companion development applications. Two, Web based applications. That market is just starting but it will not be long before every application you can find on a desktop will be able to be found in a web-based alternative. MS unfortunately, dropped the ball on this. At one point, they held almost 90 percent of the browser market but due to neglect, like in Access, they have lost that market too. (IE use is now below 50 percent and it is dropping at half a percent a month.) I hope this is not depressing anyone but I see the market opening up with so many great opportunities but Microsoft products will just become one of a few supported product lines and not the only one. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 7:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive > I doubt seriously that the licensing for a<50 person corp is NOT negotiable. MSFT is just testing the waters with that kind of licensing fee IMHO. I would guess so. The problem is that once you dive in to the water you are in for the long haul. Free? Not?? I can run MySQL on Windows 2008 and have a full on server with most of the bells and whistles. the cost is in coming up to speed in a new environment, but once done then it is very low cost. Or I can run MSSQL. They were already balking (unable to afford really) the $8K or so for the SQL Server Standard Edition. But we are about to move a full system, ~200 tables to something. Moving that big a database is going to be time consuming and expensive just in migration costs and testing. Do I move it to SQL Server 2008 Express? That doesn't seem a good bet. Do I move to SQl Server 2008 Standard and get locked in only to have MS really whack them around in the 2011 license costs? Or do I make the break and just go MySQL (or something else)? I am recommending that we just make a clean break right now. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 15 01:28:52 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:28:52 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim, John at all, That's is an interesting discussion. But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... .Now take C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > John: > > All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > that you ever became completely stuck. > > It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > ;-) > > To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > > They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > found they had little trouble adjusting. > > Jim > > ) From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 15 01:40:39 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:40:39 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?ore_expensive?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting > > the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point > > of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have > > with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu > > VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but > > each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this > > approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in > > two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > A. > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then > > > > running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run > > > > various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 15 02:50:00 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:50:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> Shamil, Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. - Hans On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Jim, John at all, > > That's is an interesting discussion. > But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > > MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > > I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > > .Now take > > C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > > - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > > And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >> John: >> >> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >> that you ever became completely stuck. >> >> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >> ;-) >> >> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >> >> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >> found they had little trouble adjusting. >> >> Jim >> >> ) > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 15 03:05:22 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 01:05:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: Glad to hear this, Arthur. Your sentiments are just the same as what caused me to jump ship many years ago. What has your experience been so far? From a business point of view, I can see why Microsoft is doing this. They will get immediate returns, as many corporations are dependant on their products and there will be much friction to change, but it is also very short sighted and will only appease shareholders in the short run. When all is said and done, I find that MySQL is a very simple database and quick to get used to. It may lack a lot of bells and whistles that some of the more enterprise databases have, but I don't personally think many (or most) projects really require this. However, I do feel like I should plug PostgreSQL very quickly. It is a _very_ advanced database (dare I say, the only true open source enterprise database). It doesn't get as much attention, due to the fact that it is a much more comprehensive and advanced package, but it can certainly compete toe-to-toe with the heavy weights (and that's probably why it doesn't get nearly as much attention as MySQL does). But, if any of you need any help or advice on using or administrating MySQL (on a Linux platform, I'm afraid), I will be more than happy to help out. Perhaps we should add a new mailing list group just for this? - Hans On 2011-11-12, at 8:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. > See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the > last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a complete > waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, and > I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu > and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs > inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so > the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be dealt > with in a VM. > > So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. You > don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a > semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated > December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net > connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of > December. Wow. Party hearty. > > Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist government, > I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of Lucky > MoFus. > > Arthur > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with Oracle... >> This is so "Balmer-like". >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>> expensive >>> >>> http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012- >>> licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ >>> >>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>> >>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>> clients and massive >>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>> >>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > Cell: 647.710.1314 > > Thirty spokes converge on a hub > but it's the emptiness > that makes a wheel work > -- from the Daodejing > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Nov 15 06:48:47 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 07:48:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <002a01cca307$4a6c6ca0$df4545e0$@net> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> <3D426E72FDC04C50A4CFF0DD867DD9AA@XPS> <002a01cca307$4a6c6ca0$df4545e0$@net> Message-ID: <74A57FE34FF74A79B661F6F45232D5BF@XPS> Ah, I see your point now. I always think of the runtime as something I distribute along with the package wizard. Not something a end-user would download directly on their own and execute. In fact I always thought it used your copy of Access as a base and didn't include Access per say on it's own. The "runtime" was just the package and deployment tools. In looking at the distributions, it looks like it may include a copy of Access (it's 202MB and I doubt the deployment tools alone would be that much), but it doesn't look like it's kept up to date as there is an SP1 for the runtime. Given that, the assumption would be that it's a RTM (Released to Mfg) version and then once installed, it relies on Windows Update to bring it up to snuff. But it could be the SP1 is simply for the deployment tools. I'll try and dig into a little more if I can find some time. I consider myself fortunate that I have done no development with 2010 and very little with 2007, so I haven't had to deal with the issues. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 02:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Yes Jim, I understand that....but what if you download the Access 2010 runtime ? Does it always have the version identified with the latest updated full release ? Previously this may not have been a big deal, but with all of the quirks and foibles of 2010, it can be an issue.... i.e. you test with the full version, then deploy to users with the runtime version....and then things stop working. > In fact you can take the full version and start it with the /runtime > switch > to get a runtime environment. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Nov 15 10:11:10 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:11:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: I started using MySQL several years back, and have since then co-authored several editions of our book on MySQL (Get It Done with MySQL, co-author being Peter Brawley, who frequents our sister site DBA-Hardware and Software Issues). When Oracle bought MySQL I got a little scared, but so far my fears are unjustified. That said, I feel a debt of gratitude to Monty and for that reason have also installed MariaDb, which is a fork off MySQL. Incidentally, for those inclined to trivia, Monty names his products after his daughters. The hardest thing for newcomers to MySQL and MariaDb is the wealth of configuration options. With MS-SQL you can pretty much load and go; and you can with MySQL and MariaDb too, but when performance is the crucial measure, then you have to open the hood and tweak the fuel-injection system, as it were. For anyone thinking of taking the plunge, you can visit www.artfulsoftware.com, which hosts our book and provides several chapters for free download, plus all the source code. In addition to discussing MySQL, we also address communicating with it from PHP, Access, .NET and other languages. Arthur On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:05 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com> wrote: > > Glad to hear this, Arthur. Your sentiments are just the same as what > caused me to jump ship many years ago. What has your experience been so far? > > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 15 10:58:17 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 08:58:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: Arthur, I had a look at a few sample chapters of your book. Looks quite comprehensive. I have to admit, I've been using MySQL this whole time and never really knew its whole history until now. I also like how you have a section on solutions to common queries. Great stuff. I will definitely recommend it to anyone looking for a good resource on MySQL. - Hans On 2011-11-15, at 8:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I started using MySQL several years back, and have since then co-authored > several editions of our book on MySQL (Get It Done with MySQL, co-author > being Peter Brawley, who frequents our sister site DBA-Hardware and > Software Issues). When Oracle bought MySQL I got a little scared, but so > far my fears are unjustified. That said, I feel a debt of gratitude to > Monty and for that reason have also installed MariaDb, which is a fork off > MySQL. Incidentally, for those inclined to trivia, Monty names his products > after his daughters. > > The hardest thing for newcomers to MySQL and MariaDb is the wealth of > configuration options. With MS-SQL you can pretty much load and go; and you > can with MySQL and MariaDb too, but when performance is the crucial > measure, then you have to open the hood and tweak the fuel-injection > system, as it were. > > > For anyone thinking of taking the plunge, you can visit > www.artfulsoftware.com, which hosts our book and provides several chapters > for free download, plus all the source code. In addition to discussing > MySQL, we also address communicating with it from PHP, Access, .NET and > other languages. > > > Arthur > > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:05 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen < > hans.andersen at phulse.com> wrote: > >> >> Glad to hear this, Arthur. Your sentiments are just the same as what >> caused me to jump ship many years ago. What has your experience been so far? >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 15 11:58:02 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:58:02 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> References: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> Message-ID: Hans -- Than you for your remark. Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > > Shamil, > > Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > > - Hans > > On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Jim, John at all, > > > > That's is an interesting discussion. > > But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > > > > MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > > > > I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > > > > .Now take > > > > C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > > > > - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > > > > And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > >> John: > >> > >> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >> that you ever became completely stuck. > >> > >> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >> ;-) > >> > >> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >> > >> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >> > >> Jim > >> > >> ) > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Nov 15 12:29:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:29:58 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Shamil: Gone are the days when everything was minis and mainframes and FORTRAN was king. FORTRAN was the first major language I learned but I have not used it too much lately. Microsoft has held the PC market for at least 10 years of the last 20 but I think we are in a period of transition and the market is spreading out again. If the patent wars do not seriously slow progress, we are on the verge of some very exciting times...similar to the 80s and early 90s. Open source and open standards is where I believe the market is going. You and I may be more familiar with Microsoft's stable of products but developing a decent product in any environment is not easy but it is now no more difficult, than under Linux, it is just different and it all takes considerable time to learn, regardless of the way you go. In the end, I believe, you can be equally as productive. Windows is the only major OS out there that does not have a Linux/Unix core. Linux is the environment of innovation. Virtually, every new product and concept in the computing world has first been created on Linux. Companies like Microsoft, Apple, Oracle, Google etc have been robbing the Linux garden for years and then have been running out and trying to patent it before someone else does or the product developers stamp a GNU and MIT license on it. Unlike Arthur, I will still be using some Microsoft products, as the customers demand it. OTOH, the market is moving away from Desktop type application and more towards Browser type environments...PCs, Smart phones, tablets and so on. In the future, proprietary PC applications are not going to be as important and that will leave Microsoft out of the loop, unless they make major changes in their corporate philosophy. This means, regardless of the effort required, the New Age IT professional is going to have to move more into the Linux world. That, as far as I can see, is a fact, that we all have to come to terms with. Therefore, whether we retire from the computer industry, develop products in a niche market or embrace the new order it does not matter. I believe it is a wonderful time to be in the computer world with so many options...and yes, that does not necessarily mean Microsoft. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 11:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive Jim, John at all, That's is an interesting discussion. But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... .Now take C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... Thank you. -- Shamil From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Nov 15 13:33:40 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:33:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60C0@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I have the following data in a table. I have been able to make reports based on each of the eng area's in the table. I now need to make a report with a total well count for each category (well status) in the table. I have not yet figured how to get a sum for each category in a report or do I need to do a query and base the report on that? Thanks tbl Monthly Well Count with EA Well Status Well_Count Eng Area Active Injector CO2 1 1 Active Injector CO2 3 2 Active Injector CO2 0 3 Active Injector WAG 100 1 Active Injector WAG 122 2 Active Injector WAG 58 3 Active Injector Water 33 1 Active Injector Water 93 2 Active Injector Water 85 3 Inactive Injector 36 1 Inactive Injector 25 2 Inactive Injector 31 3 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 15 13:42:41 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:42:41 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: HI Jim -- > we are on the verge of some very exciting times...similar to the 80s and early 90s. Yes. I'd even say they promise to be even more exciting... Yes, I know that "gone are the days when everything was minis..." - I have just mentioned them to note how huge is the software development productivity growth using nowadays development tools comparing to "good old days..." Still "mythical man-month phenomena" is very actual these days and even becoming more and more actual IMO - and that is Microsoft who is leading/is one of the leaders of the world mass and corporate market of software development productivity tools and programming languages *innovation* nowadays IMO... As for Microsoft business model - everybody knows they often were "missing mainstream uprising technologies" but there were no *any*(?) case in their corporate history they weren't able to "catch the leaving train" and to become a bandwagon - do you believe they will miss it this time?... Let's keep "adults talk" here? :) - I'm asking just one concrete question: - please give me real figures for real life project(s) when Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) of using MS development tools and applications platforms e.g. C#/.NET 4.0 + MS SQL is higher than TCO of using mySQL + ...(?).... provided development teams using that tools on both sides have comparable experience in developing business applications... > I believe it is a wonderful time to be in the computer > world with so many options...and yes, that does not > necessarily mean Microsoft. Yes, but I'm not questioning that. OK? Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. And no, I'm not working for Microsoft :) And I'm not MVP. 15 ?????? 2011, 22:31 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Hi Shamil: > > Gone are the days when everything was minis and mainframes and FORTRAN was > king. FORTRAN was the first major language I learned but I have not used it > too much lately. > > Microsoft has held the PC market for at least 10 years of the last 20 but I > think we are in a period of transition and the market is spreading out > again. If the patent wars do not seriously slow progress, we are on the > verge of some very exciting times...similar to the 80s and early 90s. > > Open source and open standards is where I believe the market is going. You > and I may be more familiar with Microsoft's stable of products but > developing a decent product in any environment is not easy but it is now no > more difficult, than under Linux, it is just different and it all takes > considerable time to learn, regardless of the way you go. In the end, I > believe, you can be equally as productive. > > Windows is the only major OS out there that does not have a Linux/Unix core. > > Linux is the environment of innovation. Virtually, every new product and > concept in the computing world has first been created on Linux. Companies > like Microsoft, Apple, Oracle, Google etc have been robbing the Linux garden > for years and then have been running out and trying to patent it before > someone else does or the product developers stamp a GNU and MIT license on > it. > > Unlike Arthur, I will still be using some Microsoft products, as the > customers demand it. OTOH, the market is moving away from Desktop type > application and more towards Browser type environments...PCs, Smart phones, > tablets and so on. In the future, proprietary PC applications are not going > to be as important and that will leave Microsoft out of the loop, unless > they make major changes in their corporate philosophy. > > This means, regardless of the effort required, the New Age IT professional > is going to have to move more into the Linux world. That, as far as I can > see, is a fact, that we all have to come to terms with. Therefore, whether > we retire from the computer industry, develop products in a niche market or > embrace the new order it does not matter. > > I believe it is a wonderful time to be in the computer world with so many > options...and yes, that does not necessarily mean Microsoft. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 11:29 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > moreexpensive > > Jim, John at all, > > That's is an interesting discussion. > But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > > MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > > I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have > worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, > command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and > PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or > network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data > definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how > much time all that development takes... > > .Now take > > C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > > - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux > development and support costs? > > And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards > HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and > support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom > business applications... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Tue Nov 15 13:50:18 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:50:18 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60C0@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60C0@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <005801cca3cf$cd6cf750$6846e5f0$@comcast.net> Hi Chester, If, on this report, you only want to display the count of wells, the I would probably write a query to use as the recordsouce of the report. Like this: SELECT tblWells.EngArea, Sum(tblWells.WellCount) AS [Well Count] FROM tblWells GROUP BY tblWells.EngArea; If you also need to display individual data on the report, then use the grouping and sum features of the report. Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report I have the following data in a table. I have been able to make reports based on each of the eng area's in the table. I now need to make a report with a total well count for each category (well status) in the table. I have not yet figured how to get a sum for each category in a report or do I need to do a query and base the report on that? Thanks tbl Monthly Well Count with EA Well Status Well_Count Eng Area Active Injector CO2 1 1 Active Injector CO2 3 2 Active Injector CO2 0 3 Active Injector WAG 100 1 Active Injector WAG 122 2 Active Injector WAG 58 3 Active Injector Water 33 1 Active Injector Water 93 2 Active Injector Water 85 3 Inactive Injector 36 1 Inactive Injector 25 2 Inactive Injector 31 3 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Nov 15 14:37:19 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:37:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report In-Reply-To: <005801cca3cf$cd6cf750$6846e5f0$@comcast.net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60C0@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <005801cca3cf$cd6cf750$6846e5f0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60E5@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Of course right after my posting it occurred to me how to do this in the report. Use this as the control source modifying as necessary for various text boxes. =DSum("[Well_Count]","tbl Monthly Well Count with EA","[Well Status] ='Active Injector CO2' ") -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Summerize data for report Hi Chester, If, on this report, you only want to display the count of wells, the I would probably write a query to use as the recordsouce of the report. Like this: SELECT tblWells.EngArea, Sum(tblWells.WellCount) AS [Well Count] FROM tblWells GROUP BY tblWells.EngArea; If you also need to display individual data on the report, then use the grouping and sum features of the report. Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report I have the following data in a table. I have been able to make reports based on each of the eng area's in the table. I now need to make a report with a total well count for each category (well status) in the table. I have not yet figured how to get a sum for each category in a report or do I need to do a query and base the report on that? Thanks tbl Monthly Well Count with EA Well Status Well_Count Eng Area Active Injector CO2 1 1 Active Injector CO2 3 2 Active Injector CO2 0 3 Active Injector WAG 100 1 Active Injector WAG 122 2 Active Injector WAG 58 3 Active Injector Water 33 1 Active Injector Water 93 2 Active Injector Water 85 3 Inactive Injector 36 1 Inactive Injector 25 2 Inactive Injector 31 3 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Nov 15 15:37:17 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:37:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> As I had indicated before, I think support is EVERYTHING. Example: After 2 successful years of running Firefox as my primary browser, I must now uninstall it. Why ?: Since the 7.01 release and now with the latest and greatest 8.0 release, It is no longer compatible with Adobe Distiller 9.0 I am now unable to print to PDF from a webpage. I LOVE TO DO THIS !!! And I love Acrobat - Professional. On the Mozilla tech forums, the responses I got to the problem went from the RIDICULOUS (Use Foxit) to the SUBLIME (get a MAC ). Neither were solutions even worthy of closer consideration. There you have it: hit the proverbial "wall" with open source and you're dead-in-the-water. I'm back with IE 8. Works great with Distiller. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 15 16:16:02 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:16:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> References: , , <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> Message-ID: <4EC2E4A2.7175.23835183@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I have no problems with printing to the open source PDFCreator with the latest FF. -- Stuart On 15 Nov 2011 at 16:37, Mark Simms wrote: > As I had indicated before, I think support is EVERYTHING. > Example: After 2 successful years of running Firefox as my primary browser, > I must now uninstall it. Why ?: > Since the 7.01 release and now with the latest and greatest 8.0 release, > It is no longer compatible with Adobe Distiller 9.0 > I am now unable to print to PDF from a webpage. I LOVE TO DO THIS !!! And I > love Acrobat - Professional. > > On the Mozilla tech forums, the responses I got to the problem went from the > RIDICULOUS (Use Foxit) to the SUBLIME (get a MAC ). Neither were solutions > even worthy of closer consideration. > > There you have it: hit the proverbial "wall" with open source and you're > dead-in-the-water. > I'm back with IE 8. Works great with Distiller. > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 15 16:38:00 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:38:00 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hi Shamil, Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. Now. MySQL - The Process so far: Looked at the manual: << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> Download the Free community edition: Easy << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> Install: Fairly easy Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> Or << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. Check data types << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Darryl -- I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > A. > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 15 16:50:47 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:50:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> Message-ID: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> Hi Shamil, I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). - Hans On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hans -- > > Than you for your remark. > > Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > > .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > > I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > > My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> >> Shamil, >> >> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >> >> - Hans >> >> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >>> Jim, John at all, >>> >>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>> >>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>> >>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>> >>> .Now take >>> >>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>> >>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>> >>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >>>> John: >>>> >>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>> >>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>> ;-) >>>> >>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>> >>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> ) >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 15 16:59:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:59:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: , , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4EC2EEBE.26497.23AACF6A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I just install MySQL by installing WAMPServer ( basically single click). Then I point my browser at http://localhost/phpMyAdmin for a GUI. -- Stuart On 15 Nov 2011 at 22:38, Darryl Collins wrote: > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL > Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad > and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get > started. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> > > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this > Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 15 2011, 06:22 Darryl Collins : > > Well, > > > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > > > Cheers > > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > > more expensive > > > > Thank you, Arthur, > > > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 13 2011, 22:21 Arthur Fuller : > > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > > > A. > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 15 16:59:30 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:59:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EC2EED2.1090709@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, In fact I believe that seat licensing is very reasonable with Microsoft. AFAICT the per seat is about $200 for Windows AND SQL Server, and that is a onc time cost, or probably a once every 4 or 5 years if they force you to get new CALs on some new revision of the software. in my opinion, that is just a reasonable cost for licensing a SQl Server. It does have to be budgeted for however. For example for this new server they need around 40 CALs which is $8K plus some fixed "server license" fees. That is a lump sum check that has to be written. If they just put that in the bank over 4 or 5 years they would be fine. I am not convinced that TCO as you describe it is huge on Linux / MySQL. I have a linux server that sits in the corner and runs. My TCO for that was $120 plus an old server system. If Access can talk through ODBC to MySQL then a conversion to MySQL would be reasonably priced. Yes there is a learning curve but still there are no or low recurring fees. Can .Net on client machines run against MySQL? I would bet so. Can I run VMs on Linux for things that have to run on Windows? What has to run on Windows? It isn't dead simple but you do get off the endless licensing treadmill with Microsoft. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/15/2011 12:58 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hans -- > > Than you for your remark. > > Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > > .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > > I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > > My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 15 17:13:30 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:13:30 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> References: <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D996D@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> And IE8 and certainly IE9 are rather nice to use as well. MS have finally decided to get a bit more serious about the browser it seems. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 8:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive As I had indicated before, I think support is EVERYTHING. Example: After 2 successful years of running Firefox as my primary browser, I must now uninstall it. Why ?: Since the 7.01 release and now with the latest and greatest 8.0 release, It is no longer compatible with Adobe Distiller 9.0 I am now unable to print to PDF from a webpage. I LOVE TO DO THIS !!! And I love Acrobat - Professional. On the Mozilla tech forums, the responses I got to the problem went from the RIDICULOUS (Use Foxit) to the SUBLIME (get a MAC ). Neither were solutions even worthy of closer consideration. There you have it: hit the proverbial "wall" with open source and you're dead-in-the-water. I'm back with IE 8. Works great with Distiller. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 15 17:29:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 18:29:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4EC2F5C2.4060100@colbyconsulting.com> >Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. But to my knowledge the size limit is for a database. So put the table itself in one database and the work stuff in another database. SQL Server (even express) can handle more than a single database and can easily use tables in one database as part of a query in another database. I am not discounting the limitations, just discussing that there is a SQL Server solution in this particular example. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/15/2011 5:38 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > Hi Shamil, > > Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. > > However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. > > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. > > Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> > > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this > Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins: >> Well, >> >> Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. >> >> Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. >> >> See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >> Salakhetdinov Shamil >> Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY >> more expensive >> >> Thank you, Arthur, >> >> I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. >> I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... >> >> -- Shamil >> >> 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller: >>> My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. >>> On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the >>> workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard >>> disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard >>> disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the >>> flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering >>> mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. >>> >>> I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the >>> point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem >>> that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. >>> Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome >>> as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the >>> particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and >>> since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. >>> >>> A. >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: >>> >>>> Hi Arthur -- >>>> >>>>> At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and >>>>> then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I >>>>> run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. >>>>> Everything works just ducky. >>>>> ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. >>>> >>>> May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 15 17:35:16 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:35:16 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EC2F5C2.4060100@colbyconsulting.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC2F5C2.4060100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D99D4@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yep, that is pretty much what I ended up doing - indeed I ended up using several databases. I haven't given up on SQL Server Express, I just want to try something else and see if it behaves any better or suit my needs better. So far it has been promising. I am fairly lucky here in that the SQL server instance is just for me. I don't have to spend any time on security, user interfaces etc. I just need it to mash data as effectively as possible. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 10:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive >Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. But to my knowledge the size limit is for a database. So put the table itself in one database and the work stuff in another database. SQL Server (even express) can handle more than a single database and can easily use tables in one database as part of a query in another database. I am not discounting the limitations, just discussing that there is a SQL Server solution in this particular example. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/15/2011 5:38 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > Hi Shamil, > > Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. > > However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. > > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. > > Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy << > http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << > http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Defau > lt.aspx>> > > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << > http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more > 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins: >> Well, >> >> Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. >> >> Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. >> >> See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >> Salakhetdinov Shamil >> Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY >> more expensive >> >> Thank you, Arthur, >> >> I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. >> I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... >> >> -- Shamil >> >> 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller: >>> My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. >>> On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the >>> workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard >>> disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard >>> disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the >>> flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering >>> mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. >>> >>> I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the >>> point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem >>> that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. >>> Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome >>> as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the >>> particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and >>> since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. >>> >>> A. >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: >>> >>>> Hi Arthur -- >>>> >>>>> At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then >>>>> running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run >>>>> various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. >>>>> Everything works just ducky. >>>>> ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. >>>> >>>> May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Tue Nov 15 20:19:17 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 20:19:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <007b01cca406$248c5f40$6da51dc0$@comcast.net> Darryl - I don't remember you mentioning which version of SQL Express you're using. SQL Express 2008 R2 has a 10 Gb limit. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 4:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Shamil, Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. Now. MySQL - The Process so far: Looked at the manual: << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> Download the Free community edition: Easy << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> Install: Fairly easy Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> Or << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. Check data types << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Darryl -- I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > A. > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 15 20:38:09 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 02:38:09 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <007b01cca406$248c5f40$6da51dc0$@comcast.net> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <007b01cca406$248c5f40$6da51dc0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DA327@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yep, That is the one I am using - 10 GB is the limit. But the 86 million rows of data are kissing the limit. 8 Access DB's pushed into a single SQL Server table. There are not that many columns of data (maybe 10 columns) in each table. Well, the one I am using to be precise is SQL Server Denali CTP3 - Express version of course. To give you an approximate idea. The 8 MS Access databases - each only contain a single table of data, no code, and a single query to ensure each table is exported the same are sized in KB (when compacted) as 1,080,608 926,160 1,343,040 998,736 1,452,932 1,300,500 1,291,344 1,287,232 ------------------ 9,680,552 Total KB ------------------ So pretty darn squeezy when pushed into a 10 GB limit :) Given that I need to add one column via the query to each table on upload you can start to see my problem. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 1:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Darryl - I don't remember you mentioning which version of SQL Express you're using. SQL Express 2008 R2 has a 10 Gb limit. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 4:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Shamil, Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. Now. MySQL - The Process so far: Looked at the manual: << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> Download the Free community edition: Easy << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> Install: Fairly easy Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> Or << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. Check data types << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Darryl -- I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > A. > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Tue Nov 15 20:49:00 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:49:00 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Reports vs SQL Server Reporting Services In-Reply-To: References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <04b001cca40a$4c834000$e589c000$@activebilling.com.au> Hey Brad. We use RepServices here at the office (SQL2005 Back ends) Generally speaking - it's a pretty good tool, though there are display issues on the browser display of final reports if you are not using IE (Something to do with frames inside frames) A real PITA Anyway back to the designer - If I tell the design tool (Vis Studio) I want a new DataSource I get 7 'types' out of the box. This includes SQL Server (Of course) and an OLE DB option , ODBC, XML and ORACLE (These are out of the box nothing else installed) We only ever connect our reports sitting over SQL but I'm sure you could do more with it, from that point of view, than we are - Also the learning curve is bugger all if you already know VB and VBA syntax. Good Luck Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Reports vs SQL Server Reporting Services Over the past two years, I have used Access 2007 to create a variety of reports. The data for these reports comes from a variety of data sources (Access, Excel, flat files, SQL Server, Pervasive Database, Firebird Database, etc). I REALLY like the report writer that is built into Access 2007. Recently the topic of SQL Server Reporting Services has come up. Even though I can access data from SQL Server (outside provider), I currently do not have access to SQL Server Reporting Services. I am curious if anyone here on the AccessD forum has worked with this facility. How does SS Reporting Services stack up against Access 2007 Reports? Is it possible to pull data from various sources into SS Reporting Services, like we can do with Access? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Nov 16 02:34:36 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:34:36 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?ore_expensive?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. But you didn't account Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) which includes your project development and support costs, did you? I''m not asking for concrete figures but for evaluation based on your or others past experiences. Once again: TCO - C#/.NET 4.0 (VS2010) vs. mySQL + ...(?) .... Did you try to split your MS SQL Express db into several parts? Would that splitting introduce too much complexity to your business application development? How do you process your large data volumes? .... Instead of "blindly switching to mySQL" wouldn't it be better first try to evaluate long term costs? .... Darryl, I'm not trying to insult you or others with my questions here - these are more questions to myself how inexpensive is that "mySQL free cheese" in long run? Anybody tried to calculate that? Yes, I know many companies do not have that much of free money to pay to MS SQL licences up-front but with proper development plan/road-map there should be a way to make that licences affordable for them in long run - I mean if that companies have a profitable business and your development makes this business even more profitable then MS SQL should be a better choice provided your back-end isn't just a "dumb" relational db but needs rich (T)-SQL and many other features you're getting with MS SQL "out-of-the-box"... Thank you. -- Shamil 16 ?????? 2011, 02:39 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Hi Shamil, > > Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. > > However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. > > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. > > Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this > Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Well, > > > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > > > Cheers > > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > > more expensive > > > > Thank you, Arthur, > > > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > > > A. > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Nov 16 02:51:20 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:51:20 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> Message-ID: Hi Hans -- Thank you for your reply. But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... Thank you. -- Shamil 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > > Hi Shamil, > > I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. > > Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. > > That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. > > Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. > > Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. > > Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. > > There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). > > - Hans > > On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hans -- > > > > Than you for your remark. > > > > Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > > > > .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > > > > I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > > > > My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >> > >> > >> Shamil, > >> > >> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > >> > >> - Hans > >> > >> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> > >>> Jim, John at all, > >>> > >>> That's is an interesting discussion. > >>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > >>> > >>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > >>> > >>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > >>> > >>> .Now take > >>> > >>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > >>> > >>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > >>> > >>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >>> > >>> > >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > >>>> John: > >>>> > >>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >>>> that you ever became completely stuck. > >>>> > >>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >>>> ;-) > >>>> > >>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >>>> > >>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >>>> > >>>> Jim > >>>> > >>>> ) > >>> > >>> -- > >>> AccessD mailing list > >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Nov 16 03:06:15 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:06:15 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <4EC2EED2.1090709@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC2EED2.1090709@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John -- Yes, AFAIHH .NET client machines can run against mySQL. I can be wrong but aren't you just trying to use "raw modern multi-core processors power " to crunch relational db indexes and joins and for that you need to use all the processor's cores?, What if you'd try to use just one core and a lot of cheap memory for MS SQL db communication and use other cores to your custom application data processing/crunching and you'll write some custom C#/.NET coding for that - would that save your customers from paying high MS SQL per-core license costs *right now*? And when they get good profit from your working solutions then they can afford some loans from banks and afford per-core MS SQL licensing - and by that time you'll get them developed even more better and more profitable custom solutions? > It isn't dead simple but you do get off the endless licensing treadmill with Microsoft. John, but "licensing treadmill" or "custom software development and support treadmill" is what drives your, mine and other companies hi-tech businesses, isn't it? Thank you. -- Shamil 16 ?????? 2011, 03:01 ?? jwcolby : > Shamil, > > In fact I believe that seat licensing is very reasonable with Microsoft. AFAICT the per seat is > about $200 for Windows AND SQL Server, and that is a onc time cost, or probably a once every 4 or 5 > years if they force you to get new CALs on some new revision of the software. > > in my opinion, that is just a reasonable cost for licensing a SQl Server. It does have to be > budgeted for however. For example for this new server they need around 40 CALs which is $8K plus > some fixed "server license" fees. That is a lump sum check that has to be written. If they just > put that in the bank over 4 or 5 years they would be fine. > > I am not convinced that TCO as you describe it is huge on Linux / MySQL. I have a linux server that > sits in the corner and runs. My TCO for that was $120 plus an old server system. If Access can > talk through ODBC to MySQL then a conversion to MySQL would be reasonably priced. Yes there is a > learning curve but still there are no or low recurring fees. Can .Net on client machines run > against MySQL? I would bet so. Can I run VMs on Linux for things that have to run on Windows? > What has to run on Windows? > > It isn't dead simple but you do get off the endless licensing treadmill with Microsoft. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/15/2011 12:58 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hans -- > > > > Than you for your remark. > > > > Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > > > > .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > > > > I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > > > > My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Nov 16 09:11:12 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:11:12 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] IT Position in Minneapolis/St.Paul Message-ID: <002b01cca471$fa687070$ef395150$@comcast.net> I just talked with one of my customers this morning, and they are looking for a person to be an 'on call' IT person. This a 100 person manufacturing firm in Shoreview. If you're interested, please contact me directly. Thanks! Dan From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 16 11:16:13 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:16:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Shamil: The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard configuration. If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches up.) I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic configuration of both. This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user can get use to using either as they are very similar. I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic configuration of both. I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or in both and how much the initial products cost. Some other points to consider: 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent Windows products. 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. Jim From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 16 11:44:52 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:44:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> Message-ID: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Hi Shamil, > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: 1. They really need a certain feature 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > Thank you for your reply. > > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > > "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > > "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> >> Hi Shamil, >> >> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. >> >> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. >> >> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. >> >> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. >> >> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. >> >> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. >> >> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). >> >> - Hans >> >> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >>> Hans -- >>> >>> Than you for your remark. >>> >>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) >>> >>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... >>> >>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? >>> >>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >>>> >>>> >>>> Shamil, >>>> >>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >>>> >>>> - Hans >>>> >>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jim, John at all, >>>>> >>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>>>> >>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>>>> >>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>>>> >>>>> .Now take >>>>> >>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>>>> >>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>>>> >>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >>>>>> John: >>>>>> >>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>>>> ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>>>> >>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jim >>>>>> >>>>>> ) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 16 12:01:03 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:01:03 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3CCC7D71-E607-4C3B-943B-A4D332B4B616@phulse.com> Jim, This is very good advice. Nicely written. - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 9:16 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Shamil: > > The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had > no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. > Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties > when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it > sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard > configuration. > > If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx > they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is > also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux > desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and > capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has > the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could > host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches > up.) > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All > will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, > music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and > on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have > regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user > can get use to using either as they are very similar. > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is > relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak > it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of > these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL > can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be > tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and > investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? > > If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there > are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever > need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows > or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to > help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. > > Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. > The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or > in both and how much the initial products cost. > > Some other points to consider: > 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no > intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if > left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be > rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it > is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. > 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) > 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary > products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 > contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent > Windows products. > 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. > > Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They > are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but > OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the > next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 16 12:12:38 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:12:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: <6D4BC8D1A20546D9A663A6BCD03FCDE3@creativesystemdesigns.com> Good one Hans...well written. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 9:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive Hi Shamil, > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions: If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: 1. They really need a certain feature 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > Thank you for your reply. > > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > > "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > > "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> >> Hi Shamil, >> >> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. >> >> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. >> >> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. >> >> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. >> >> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. >> >> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. >> >> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). >> >> - Hans >> >> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >>> Hans -- >>> >>> Than you for your remark. >>> >>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) >>> >>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... >>> >>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? >>> >>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >>>> >>>> >>>> Shamil, >>>> >>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >>>> >>>> - Hans >>>> >>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jim, John at all, >>>>> >>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>>>> >>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>>>> >>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>>>> >>>>> .Now take >>>>> >>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>>>> >>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>>>> >>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >>>>>> John: >>>>>> >>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>>>> ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>>>> >>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jim >>>>>> >>>>>> ) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 12:28:42 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:28:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EC400DA.7020707@colbyconsulting.com> > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. I think this is particularly huge. I know I am familiar with MSSQL. However it was a few short years ago that I was cursing MSSQL for its obtuseness. Now that I "know it" I do not want to switch. But intellectually I think that becoming comfortable with MySQL is a necessity (for me). I work in small businesses where MS licensing is an issue for many reasons including complexity and cost. Having a free, open and powerful alternative can only be a good thing (for me). John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 12:44 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > > Hi Shamil, > >> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. > > In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > > >> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > > >> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) > > You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. > > Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > > >> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? > > If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. > > > If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. > > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > > > - Hans From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 12:33:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:33:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about "needing to reboot after updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows Server 2008 and SQL Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL variant. Then I will truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much so as any system can expect. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Shamil: > > The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had > no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. > Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties > when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it > sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard > configuration. > > If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx > they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is > also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux > desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and > capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has > the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could > host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches > up.) > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All > will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, > music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and > on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have > regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user > can get use to using either as they are very similar. > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is > relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak > it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of > these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL > can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be > tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and > investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? > > If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there > are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever > need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows > or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to > help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. > > Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. > The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or > in both and how much the initial products cost. > > Some other points to consider: > 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no > intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if > left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be > rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it > is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. > 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) > 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary > products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 > contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent > Windows products. > 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. > > Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They > are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but > OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the > next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. > > Jim > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 16 13:35:46 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:35:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, I've never seen a Linux server to have its stability degrade over time, unless there was a serious problem going on (like hardware failure). I have known Windows servers to have stability problems, but more often than not, this is usually due to poor quality drivers and/or the use of consumer grade hardware or software with memory leaks. But, unless you know exactly what you are doing, you will still find that you need to reboot Linux servers on occasions after a software update if there is a serious kernel patch. It doesn't happen as often as on Windows, but we used to have a very neat tool called Ksplice, which can patch a running kernel on the fly. Unfortunately, Oracle bought the company that ran that product and immediately dropped support for other distros other than its own (as if I really needed another reason to despise Oracle). :p I haven't checked what our uptimes are on at my (Debian) server farm. I'll have a look in a bit. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-16, at 10:33 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. > > I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about "needing to reboot after updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows Server 2008 and SQL Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. > > One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL variant. Then I will truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much so as any system can expect. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Shamil: >> >> The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had >> no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. >> Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties >> when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it >> sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard >> configuration. >> >> If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx >> they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is >> also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux >> desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and >> capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has >> the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could >> host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches >> up.) >> >> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >> configuration of both. >> >> This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All >> will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, >> music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and >> on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have >> regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user >> can get use to using either as they are very similar. >> >> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >> configuration of both. >> >> I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is >> relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak >> it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of >> these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL >> can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be >> tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and >> investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? >> >> If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there >> are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever >> need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows >> or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to >> help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. >> >> Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. >> The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or >> in both and how much the initial products cost. >> >> Some other points to consider: >> 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no >> intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if >> left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be >> rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it >> is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. >> 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) >> 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary >> products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 >> contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent >> Windows products. >> 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. >> >> Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They >> are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but >> OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the >> next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. >> >> Jim >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Wed Nov 16 13:40:47 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:40:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: Folks, I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). I have not been able to find a way to do this. Thanks for your help and advice. Sincerely, Brad From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 16 15:06:14 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:06:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC400DA.7020707@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com>, <4EC400DA.7020707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EC425C6.5389.2869CA06@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> As I recall, it was more a case of you were cursing everyone on the dba-SQLServer list for their obtuseness when answering your questions. :-) -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:28, jwcolby wrote: > I think this is particularly huge. I know I am familiar with MSSQL. However it was a few short > years ago that I was cursing MSSQL for its obtuseness. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 16 15:13:56 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:13:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4EC42794.18550.2870D80A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > Folks, > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > Sincerely, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 15:23:00 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:23:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Mushkin 120 gb SATA III Message-ID: <4EC429B4.3090605@colbyconsulting.com> A great price on these for those in the USA. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008120%20600038519%20600038484&IsNodeId=1&name=120GB -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Nov 16 15:31:35 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:31:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857A@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Would a print screen do if you could send the key strokes Martin Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Stuart McLachlan Sent: 16/11/2011 21:15 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > Folks, > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > Sincerely, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Nov 16 15:33:53 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:33:53 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857C@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Or See this thread http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233108 Martin Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Stuart McLachlan Sent: 16/11/2011 21:15 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > Folks, > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > Sincerely, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 15:40:31 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:40:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC425C6.5389.2869CA06@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com>, <4EC400DA.7020707@colbyconsulting.com> <4EC425C6.5389.2869CA06@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EC42DCF.5080401@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, that too. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 4:06 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > As I recall, it was more a case of you were cursing everyone on the dba-SQLServer list for > their obtuseness when answering your questions. :-) > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 16 16:15:12 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:15:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857C@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857C@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4EC435F0.21723.28A8EFA1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Well blow me down, who'd a thunk it? Worksheets("Sheet1").Range("A1:D4").CopyPicture xlScreen, xlBitmap Once you have the image on the clipboard, you can use the example OleCreatePictureIndirect() code directly in Access to do it. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 21:33, Martin Reid wrote: > Or > > See this thread > > http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233108 > > Martin > > Sent from my Windows Phone > ________________________________ > From: Stuart McLachlan > Sent: 16/11/2011 21:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File > > I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows > Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is > essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. > > -- > Stuart > > On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > > > Folks, > > > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > > > Sincerely, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 16 16:18:09 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:18:09 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John: One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but through some MS Update that setting was modified. I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data that I knew anything was wrong. >From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about "needing to reboot after updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows Server 2008 and SQL Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL variant. Then I will truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much so as any system can expect. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Shamil: > > The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had > no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. > Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties > when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it > sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard > configuration. > > If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx > they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is > also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux > desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and > capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has > the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could > host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches > up.) > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All > will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, > music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and > on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have > regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user > can get use to using either as they are very similar. > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is > relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak > it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of > these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL > can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be > tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and > investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? > > If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there > are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever > need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows > or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to > help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. > > Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. > The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or > in both and how much the initial products cost. > > Some other points to consider: > 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no > intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if > left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be > rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it > is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. > 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) > 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary > products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 > contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent > Windows products. > 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. > > Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They > are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but > OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the > next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. > > Jim > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 16 17:02:35 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 23:02:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DA59B@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> No probs Shamil, It is always good to explore these issues. This role I am in now is a little unique compared to other positions I have had. In the past I have usually been involved with building rock solid user solutions that are rolled out over a business. They have to look good, function well and be nice and strong and stable as the user are just users who do what they do. They generally also follow a structured business workflow or plan and are fairly constrained on their input and outputs. If I have had the advantage of working with SQL Server I would usually get access to a big enterprise setup which was managed by dedicated DBA's with all the bells and whistles. There were always rules about what could and couldn't be done etc. In this sort of environment I can see your point about TCO and economies of scale and maintenance etc. Now in this role, I work with a small company in a team of 4 other guys and we manipulate large volumes of data which are project specific. Each project is largely unique so whilst we have a sort of framework we use, there is a lot of 'start from scratch' stuff in the early days when we get the data from the clients. In this role there is no need for nice GUI's for the users, or functionality or anything like. It is mostly pure data and brute force processing power to get the clients data into a useable framework for our processes. In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access. That is what I love about this role. It really is very different and hands on - without any hassle of having to spend hours and hours building a functional UI or even a functional DB. I mean we do built GUI for us, but they don't have to be rock solid and stable as they guys here are all data nerds like me and generally know there way around this stuff. One of the best and most interesting roles I have ever had. Now, based on this, I am probably not the best person to ask. One day we may have a dedicated and central server for processing data, but right now all of our heavy duty processing machines (about 25 of them) run our propriety software that actually produces the results for the clients. Think of what we do as drive the heavy bulldozers and trucks that mash the data and prepare it for processing. Hope that makes sense. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 7:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. But you didn't account Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) which includes your project development and support costs, did you? I''m not asking for concrete figures but for evaluation based on your or others past experiences. Once again: TCO - C#/.NET 4.0 (VS2010) vs. mySQL + ...(?) .... Did you try to split your MS SQL Express db into several parts? Would that splitting introduce too much complexity to your business application development? How do you process your large data volumes? .... Instead of "blindly switching to mySQL" wouldn't it be better first try to evaluate long term costs? .... Darryl, I'm not trying to insult you or others with my questions here - these are more questions to myself how inexpensive is that "mySQL free cheese" in long run? Anybody tried to calculate that? Yes, I know many companies do not have that much of free money to pay to MS SQL licences up-front but with proper development plan/road-map there should be a way to make that licences affordable for them in long run - I mean if that companies have a profitable business and your development makes this business even more profitable then MS SQL should be a better choice provided your back-end isn't just a "dumb" relational db but needs rich (T)-SQL and many other features you're getting with MS SQL "out-of-the-box"... Thank you. -- Shamil 16 ?????? 2011, 02:39 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Hi Shamil, > > Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. > > However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. > > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. > > Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy << > http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << > http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Defau > lt.aspx>> > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << > http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more > 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Well, > > > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > > > Cheers > > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > > more expensive > > > > Thank you, Arthur, > > > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, > > > the workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few > > > hard disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a > > > USB hard disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot > > > the flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run > > > Chrome as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > > > A. > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 17:29:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:29:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EC4474F.8090208@colbyconsulting.com> I absolutely agree. MS has a lot of nerve assuming that they can reboot any server without permission. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 5:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > >> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:33 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > moreexpensive > > >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone > for too long it will > start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. > > I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about > "needing to reboot after > updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows > Server 2008 and SQL > Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. > > One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL > variant. Then I will > truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much > so as any system can expect. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Shamil: >> >> The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux > had >> no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. >> Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late > nineties >> when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it >> sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard >> configuration. >> >> If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx >> they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this > is >> also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux >> desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit > and >> capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS > has >> the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could >> host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware > catches >> up.) >> >> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >> configuration of both. >> >> This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All >> will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, >> music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products > and >> on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have >> regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any > user >> can get use to using either as they are very similar. >> >> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >> configuration of both. >> >> I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it > is >> relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak >> it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) > of >> these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL >> can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be >> tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training > and >> investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? >> >> If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there >> are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever >> need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows >> or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to >> help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. >> >> Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. >> The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either > or >> in both and how much the initial products cost. >> >> Some other points to consider: >> 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no >> intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and > if >> left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be >> rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least > it >> is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. >> 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) >> 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary >> products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 >> contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent >> Windows products. >> 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. >> >> Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. > They >> are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but >> OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for > the >> next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. >> >> Jim >> From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 16 17:40:15 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:40:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC4474F.8090208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> <4EC4474F.8090208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <2E25C8B2-B90C-40E7-A8F3-04858F2E96A8@phulse.com> Jim, Wow, it happened again, eh? - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 3:29 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I absolutely agree. MS has a lot of nerve assuming that they can reboot any server without permission. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/16/2011 5:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi John: >> >> One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server >> 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but >> through some MS Update that setting was modified. >> >> I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type >> request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a >> MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. >> It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data >> that I knew anything was wrong. >> >>> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and >> it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. >> >> Jim >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:33 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY >> moreexpensive >> >> >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone >> for too long it will >> start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. >> >> I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about >> "needing to reboot after >> updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows >> Server 2008 and SQL >> Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. >> >> One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL >> variant. Then I will >> truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much >> so as any system can expect. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Hi Shamil: >>> >>> The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux >> had >>> no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. >>> Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late >> nineties >>> when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it >>> sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard >>> configuration. >>> >>> If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx >>> they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this >> is >>> also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux >>> desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit >> and >>> capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS >> has >>> the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could >>> host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware >> catches >>> up.) >>> >>> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >>> configuration of both. >>> >>> This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All >>> will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, >>> music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products >> and >>> on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have >>> regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any >> user >>> can get use to using either as they are very similar. >>> >>> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >>> configuration of both. >>> >>> I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it >> is >>> relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak >>> it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) >> of >>> these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL >>> can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be >>> tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training >> and >>> investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? >>> >>> If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there >>> are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever >>> need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows >>> or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to >>> help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. >>> >>> Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. >>> The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either >> or >>> in both and how much the initial products cost. >>> >>> Some other points to consider: >>> 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no >>> intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and >> if >>> left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be >>> rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least >> it >>> is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. >>> 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) >>> 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary >>> products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 >>> contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent >>> Windows products. >>> 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. >>> >>> Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. >> They >>> are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but >>> OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for >> the >>> next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. >>> >>> Jim >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 16 17:51:16 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:51:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <2E25C8B2-B90C-40E7-A8F3-04858F2E96A8@phulse.com> References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> <4EC4474F.8090208@colbyconsulting.com> <2E25C8B2-B90C-40E7-A8F3-04858F2E96A8@phulse.com> Message-ID: <2956286C6F6F4E6FA3E1E5438E7E2C6B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Yes Hans, you will recognize this as an ongoing wine. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 3:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive Jim, Wow, it happened again, eh? - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 3:29 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I absolutely agree. MS has a lot of nerve assuming that they can reboot any server without permission. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/16/2011 5:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi John: >> >> One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server >> 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but >> through some MS Update that setting was modified. >> >> I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type >> request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a >> MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. >> It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data >> that I knew anything was wrong. >> >>> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and >> it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. >> >> Jim >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:33 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY >> moreexpensive >> >> >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone >> for too long it will >> start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. >> >> I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about >> "needing to reboot after >> updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows >> Server 2008 and SQL >> Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. >> >> One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL >> variant. Then I will >> truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much >> so as any system can expect. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Hi Shamil: >>> >>> The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux >> had >>> no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. >>> Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late >> nineties >>> when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it >>> sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard >>> configuration. >>> >>> If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx >>> they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this >> is >>> also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux >>> desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit >> and >>> capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS >> has >>> the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could >>> host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware >> catches >>> up.) >>> >>> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >>> configuration of both. >>> >>> This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All >>> will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, >>> music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products >> and >>> on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have >>> regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any >> user >>> can get use to using either as they are very similar. >>> >>> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >>> configuration of both. >>> >>> I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it >> is >>> relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak >>> it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) >> of >>> these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL >>> can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be >>> tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training >> and >>> investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? >>> >>> If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there >>> are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever >>> need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows >>> or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to >>> help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. >>> >>> Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. >>> The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either >> or >>> in both and how much the initial products cost. >>> >>> Some other points to consider: >>> 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no >>> intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and >> if >>> left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be >>> rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least >> it >>> is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. >>> 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) >>> 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary >>> products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 >>> contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent >>> Windows products. >>> 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. >>> >>> Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. >> They >>> are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but >>> OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for >> the >>> next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. >>> >>> Jim >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Nov 17 01:51:22 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:51:22 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Message-ID: Hi Jim et al Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: "Install updates automatically (recommended)" instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> Hi John: One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but through some MS Update that setting was modified. I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data that I knew anything was wrong. >From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. Jim From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Nov 17 02:09:00 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 00:09:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67AF3394-BAE7-4B82-BD29-8497BCD53804@phulse.com> Hej Gustav, Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Nov 17 03:06:54 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:06:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Message-ID: Hi Hans Yes, that is strange. Or does a category "Extremely urgent updates that overrules setting for later install" for updates exist? /gustav >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 17-11-2011 09:09 >>> Hej Gustav, Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 17 07:04:08 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:04:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC50648.1070301@colbyconsulting.com> Gustav, I have had this happen to me as well. I set ALL my machines to download and notify me and suddenly I come in and the server has rebooted and informs me that an update was done which required a reboot. The only thing I can figure is that a previous update which I did reboot after has gone in and reset that setting to automatic. This is real, believe me. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 2:51 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18>>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > >> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Nov 17 07:17:25 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:17:25 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Message-ID: Hi John I listen, but I've never seen it myself. Have a dozen or so servers running - physical as well as virtual - but most are 2003; only two are 2008 and one is 2000 (= zero updates!) /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 17-11-2011 14:04 >>> Gustav, I have had this happen to me as well. I set ALL my machines to download and notify me and suddenly I come in and the server has rebooted and informs me that an update was done which required a reboot. The only thing I can figure is that a previous update which I did reboot after has gone in and reset that setting to automatic. This is real, believe me. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 2:51 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18>>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > >> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 08:34:11 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:34:11 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> References: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? .... etc ... IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... Hans you noted: <<<<<<<<<<< But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: 1. They really need a certain feature 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. As Darryl writes: <<<< In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > Hi Shamil, > > > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. > > In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > > > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > > > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) > > You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. > > Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > > > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? > > If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. > > If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. > > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > > - Hans > > On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Hans -- > > > > Thank you for your reply. > > > > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > > > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > > > And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > > > > "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > > > > "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >> > >> > >> Hi Shamil, > >> > >> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. > >> > >> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. > >> > >> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. > >> > >> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. > >> > >> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. > >> > >> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. > >> > >> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). > >> > >> - Hans > >> > >> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> > >>> Hans -- > >>> > >>> Than you for your remark. > >>> > >>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > >>> > >>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > >>> > >>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > >>> > >>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >>> > >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Shamil, > >>>> > >>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > >>>> > >>>> - Hans > >>>> > >>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Jim, John at all, > >>>>> > >>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. > >>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > >>>>> > >>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > >>>>> > >>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > >>>>> > >>>>> .Now take > >>>>> > >>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > >>>>> > >>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > >>>>> > >>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > >>>>>> John: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >>>>>> ;-) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Jim > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ) > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> AccessD mailing list > >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 17 10:59:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:59:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EC53D89.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, If you read my original post closely you will see that it a client bringing up a new server, *not* my server here at my home office which is where I run the custom written C# program and SQL Server BE. As I think I stated in my original post, this client is at a transition point. They have to select an OS and a database engine. Their system uses Access backends, which we have split into many files due to size constraints. So for *this client* it is appropriate to study which route makes more sense. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > > Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > > I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > > How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > .... etc ... > > IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > > You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > > I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > > Hans you noted: > > <<<<<<<<<<< > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>>> > > I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > > As Darryl writes: > > <<<< > In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>>> > I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > > I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > > Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 > > 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >> >> Hi Shamil, >> >>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? >> >> I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. >> >> In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. >> >>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. >> >> In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) >> >>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) >> >> You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. >> >> Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. >> >>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? >> >> If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. >> >> If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. >> >> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: >> >> 1. They really need a certain feature >> >> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) >> >> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >> >> - Hans >> >> On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >>> Hi Hans -- >>> >>> Thank you for your reply. >>> >>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? >>> >>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. >>> >>> And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? >>> >>> "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" >>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... >>> >>> "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." >>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> >>> 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Shamil, >>>> >>>> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web& mobile development. >>>> >>>> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts& bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. >>>> >>>> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. >>>> >>>> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. >>>> >>>> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. >>>> >>>> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. >>>> >>>> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). >>>> >>>> - Hans >>>> >>>> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hans -- >>>>> >>>>> Than you for your remark. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) >>>>> >>>>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... >>>>> >>>>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? >>>>> >>>>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Shamil, >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Hans >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Jim, John at all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>>>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>>>>>> >>>>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> .Now take >>>>>>> >>>>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Shamil >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence": >>>>>>>> John: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>>>>>> ;-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 13:00:18 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:00:18 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <4EC53D89.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC53D89.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John -- Thank you for your clarification - from you original post http://e.mail.ru/cgi-bin/msglist?542573152=&folder=0#readmsg?id=13211081120000000542&folder=3 it wasn't clear for me that you're talking about particular client considering probable moving out of using MS Windows and MS database (Access or SQL) backends, and so I mistakenly implied you're going to rework you mighty "data crunching" system to use mySQL... -- Shamil 17 ?????? 2011, 21:01 ?? jwcolby : > Shamil, > > If you read my original post closely you will see that it a client bringing up a new server, *not* > my server here at my home office which is where I run the custom written C# program and SQL Server BE. > > As I think I stated in my original post, this client is at a transition point. They have to select > an OS and a database engine. Their system uses Access backends, which we have split into many files > due to size constraints. > > So for *this client* it is appropriate to study which route makes more sense. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > > > > Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > > > > I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > > I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > > > > How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > > How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > > Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > > Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > > What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > > Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > > .... etc ... > > > > IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > > > > You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > > > > I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > > > > Hans you noted: > > > > <<<<<<<<<<< > > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > > > > As Darryl writes: > > > > <<<< > > In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access > >>>>> > > I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > > > > I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > > > > Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > > I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 > > > > 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >> > >> Hi Shamil, > >> > >>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > >> > >> I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. > >> > >> In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > >> > >>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > >> > >> In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > >> > >>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) > >> > >> You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. > >> > >> Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > >> > >>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? > >> > >> If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. > >> > >> If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. > >> > >> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > >> > >> 1. They really need a certain feature > >> > >> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > >> > >> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >> > >> - Hans > >> > >> On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Hans -- > >>> > >>> Thank you for your reply. > >>> > >>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > >>> > >>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > >>> > >>> And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > >>> > >>> "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > >>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > >>> > >>> "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > >>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >>> > >>> > >>> 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Hi Shamil, > >>>> > >>>> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web& mobile development. > >>>> > >>>> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts& bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. > >>>> > >>>> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. > >>>> > >>>> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. > >>>> > >>>> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. > >>>> > >>>> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. > >>>> > >>>> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). > >>>> > >>>> - Hans > >>>> > >>>> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hans -- > >>>>> > >>>>> Than you for your remark. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > >>>>> > >>>>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > >>>>> > >>>>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > >>>>> > >>>>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Shamil, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - Hans > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Jim, John at all, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. > >>>>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> .Now take > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thank you. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence": > >>>>>>>> John: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >>>>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >>>>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >>>>>>>> ;-) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >>>>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >>>>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >>>>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >>>>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >>>>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >>>>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Jim > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> AccessD mailing list > >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 17 13:09:47 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:09:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] TOC MySQL vs SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EC55BFB.1080506@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, OK, so now that we understand that it is in fact a client's new server that I was discussing originally, let's go ahead and discuss doing the same thing here at my home office. First take a look at this article: http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/move_from_microsoft_SQL_Server.html It would appear that I could in fact run MySQL right on my existing server should I so desire. I have built my mongo server around Windows 2008 and SQL Server 2008. I have written a custom C# application which performs massive table updates every month. Due to the fact that the server runs an X64 version of windows and I installed an X64 version of Visual Studio on the server, and the fact that the X64 version does not support "edit and continue", I actually run the C# application on vmDev which runs an X32 version of Visual Studio. The application runs on a VM and the actual database manipulations run on the X64 server. The application, written in C#, executes dynamic SQL on the server, getting back results. If I needed to, what would be the "costs" to move to MySQL? The question becomes: 1) Cost to install and come up to speed on MySQL. 2) The complexity (time) to move the data from SQL Server to MSSql. 3) What is involved in porting the code to use dynamic SQL that MySQL supports? In my case the databases I manipulate are not very complex. Typically each database has two or a few tables. I am not using stored procedures in SQL Server, in fact I have intentionally migrated away from doing so (I used to). My "stored procedures" are now C# routines and dynamic SQL. I find C# much more flexible as a language and find no need for stored procedures *for this application*. My take on migrating this application to MySQL is that I would not hesitate to do so if I needed to, and I do not currently need to. I do not need to run the C# code itself on the server so even if the database or MySQL were hosted on Linux, I could still probably run my application, assuming the Dynamic SQL port. After the migration, the TCO seems to be similar, or perhaps lower than an MS only solution since SQL Server licensing costs go away. If I were to migrate to Linux then Windows licensing costs go away. These are not insubstantial costs. I do not use Linux or MySQL so I cannot speak with authority but they both appear to have reached the point where they are not rocket science, or any more so that maintaining Windows server software is. I am really exploring this more in the context of future business. MS licensing is already so convoluted and costly that small businesses are protesting server based systems. They used to use Access and I used to recommend Access, be and fe, but am I going to continue doing so? I think not. So what do I recommend when MS wants $10K to $20K for the Windows / SQL Server licenses for a new server? For the small businesses I work for this is a large chunk of change. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > > Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > > I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > > How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > .... etc ... > > IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > > You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > > I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > > Hans you noted: > > <<<<<<<<<<< > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>>> > > I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > > As Darryl writes: > > <<<< > In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>>> > I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > > I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > > Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 17 13:12:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:12:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EC53D89.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EC55C87.3010206@colbyconsulting.com> Your link takes me to a n email login screen in Russia. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 2:00 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi John -- > > Thank you for your clarification - from you original post > > http://e.mail.ru/cgi-bin/msglist?542573152=&folder=0#readmsg?id=13211081120000000542&folder=3 > > it wasn't clear for me that you're talking about particular client considering probable moving out of using MS Windows and MS database (Access or SQL) backends, and so I mistakenly implied you're going to rework you mighty "data crunching" system to use mySQL... > > -- Shamil > > 17 ?????? 2011, 21:01 ?? jwcolby: >> Shamil, >> >> If you read my original post closely you will see that it a client bringing up a new server, *not* >> my server here at my home office which is where I run the custom written C# program and SQL Server BE. >> >> As I think I stated in my original post, this client is at a transition point. They have to select >> an OS and a database engine. Their system uses Access backends, which we have split into many files >> due to size constraints. >> >> So for *this client* it is appropriate to study which route makes more sense. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>> Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- >>> >>> Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... >>> >>> I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. >>> I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. >>> >>> How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? >>> How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? >>> Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? >>> Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? >>> What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? >>> Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? >>> .... etc ... >>> >>> IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. >>> >>> You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. >>> >>> I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... >>> >>> Hans you noted: >>> >>> <<<<<<<<<<< >>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: >>> >>> 1. They really need a certain feature >>> >>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) >>> >>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. >>> >>> As Darryl writes: >>> >>> <<<< >>> In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>>>>> >>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. >>> >>> I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. >>> >>> Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... >>> I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" >>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 >>> >>> 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>> >>>> Hi Shamil, >>>> >>>>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? >>>> >>>> I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. >>>> >>>> In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. >>>> >>>>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. >>>> >>>> In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) >>>> >>>>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) >>>> >>>> You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. >>>> >>>> Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. >>>> >>>>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? >>>> >>>> If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. >>>> >>>> If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. >>>> >>>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: >>>> >>>> 1. They really need a certain feature >>>> >>>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) >>>> >>>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>> >>>> - Hans >>>> >>>> On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Hans -- >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your reply. >>>>> >>>>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? >>>>> >>>>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. >>>>> >>>>> And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? >>>>> >>>>> "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" >>>>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... >>>>> >>>>> "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." >>>>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Shamil, >>>>>> >>>>>> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web& mobile development. >>>>>> >>>>>> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts& bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. >>>>>> >>>>>> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. >>>>>> >>>>>> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. >>>>>> >>>>>> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). >>>>>> >>>>>> - Hans >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hans -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Than you for your remark. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Shamil >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Shamil, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Hans >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jim, John at all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>>>>>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> .Now take >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- Shamil >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence": >>>>>>>>>> John: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>>>>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>>>>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>>>>>>>> ;-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>>>>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>>>>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>>>>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>>>>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>>>>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>>>>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 13:50:52 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:50:52 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <4EC55C87.3010206@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC55C87.3010206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Sorry, John, for misleading URL I have posted, I can't get at Access-D archives - I meant this your original posting: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< From: jwcolby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving , Sqlserver-Dba 12 November 2011, 18:28 http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012-licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from clients and massive switching to MySQL and the likes. I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17 ?????? 2011, 23:13 ?? jwcolby : > Your link takes me to a n email login screen in Russia. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/17/2011 2:00 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hi John -- > > > > Thank you for your clarification - from you original post > > > > http://e.mail.ru/cgi-bin/msglist?542573152=&folder=0#readmsg?id=13211081120000000542&folder=3 > > > > it wasn't clear for me that you're talking about particular client considering probable moving out of using MS Windows and MS database (Access or SQL) backends, and so I mistakenly implied you're going to rework you mighty "data crunching" system to use mySQL... > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 17 ?????? 2011, 21:01 ?? jwcolby: > >> Shamil, > >> > >> If you read my original post closely you will see that it a client bringing up a new server, *not* > >> my server here at my home office which is where I run the custom written C# program and SQL Server BE. > >> > >> As I think I stated in my original post, this client is at a transition point. They have to select > >> an OS and a database engine. Their system uses Access backends, which we have split into many files > >> due to size constraints. > >> > >> So for *this client* it is appropriate to study which route makes more sense. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> Colby Consulting > >> > >> Reality is what refuses to go away > >> when you do not believe in it > >> > >> On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>> Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > >>> > >>> Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > >>> > >>> I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > >>> I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > >>> > >>> How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > >>> How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > >>> Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > >>> Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > >>> What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > >>> Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > >>> .... etc ... > >>> > >>> IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > >>> > >>> You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > >>> > >>> I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > >>> > >>> Hans you noted: > >>> > >>> <<<<<<<<<<< > >>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > >>> > >>> 1. They really need a certain feature > >>> > >>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > >>> > >>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>> > >>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > >>> > >>> As Darryl writes: > >>> > >>> <<<< > >>> In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access > >>>>>>> > >>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > >>> > >>> I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > >>> > >>> Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > >>> I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >>> > >>> P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" > >>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 > >>> > >>> 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>> > >>>> Hi Shamil, > >>>> > >>>>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > >>>> > >>>> I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. > >>>> > >>>> In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > >>>> > >>>>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > >>>> > >>>> In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > >>>> > >>>>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) > >>>> > >>>> You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. > >>>> > >>>> Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > >>>> > >>>>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? > >>>> > >>>> If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. > >>>> > >>>> If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. > >>>> > >>>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > >>>> > >>>> 1. They really need a certain feature > >>>> > >>>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > >>>> > >>>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>> > >>>> - Hans > >>>> > >>>> On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Hans -- > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you for your reply. > >>>>> > >>>>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > >>>>> > >>>>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > >>>>> > >>>>> And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > >>>>> > >>>>> "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > >>>>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > >>>>> > >>>>> "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > >>>>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Shamil, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web& mobile development. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts& bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - Hans > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hans -- > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Than you for your remark. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thank you. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Shamil, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> - Hans > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Jim, John at all, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. > >>>>>>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> .Now take > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Thank you. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence": > >>>>>>>>>> John: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >>>>>>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >>>>>>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >>>>>>>>>> ;-) > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >>>>>>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >>>>>>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >>>>>>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >>>>>>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >>>>>>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >>>>>>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Jim > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ) > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 17 14:23:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:23:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <63724C1DCACC4A87B028141C6138BA7A@creativesystemdesigns.com> That is exactly how I set things as I have done this many times before. Maybe I may have over-looked this process once or twice but when it starts happening more on a continuous bases I starting suspecting the previous updates assistance. I have now learned after each update to go and turn-off auto-updates but I am caught occasionally. All I want it to is just stay off, period. I can understand auto-updates being the default setting on workstations but having the same on servers is crazy. IMHO, Auto-update for servers does not need to exist. Jim PS My current versions of Linux, do regular updates, always asks to start, rarely requires a reboot and always asks when it does. That process works for me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 11:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Hi Jim et al Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: "Install updates automatically (recommended)" instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> Hi John: One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but through some MS Update that setting was modified. I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data that I knew anything was wrong. >From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 17 14:29:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:29:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <789EF360B9B14964B970FBC3C6554F00@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Gustav: I would like to see a feature accompanying the update process that will email me when an urgent issue requires user intervention... Is there such a product out there or some hidden feature in the MS OS? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Hi Hans Yes, that is strange. Or does a category "Extremely urgent updates that overrules setting for later install" for updates exist? /gustav >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 17-11-2011 09:09 >>> Hej Gustav, Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 14:34:40 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 00:34:40 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?TOC_MySQL_vs_SQL_Server?= In-Reply-To: <4EC55BFB.1080506@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC55BFB.1080506@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John -- Well, you use SQL backend mainly as a "dumb" relational engine, no (advanced) server side static T-SQL Stored Procedures, no T-SQL User Defined Functions simulating "virtual" tables?.... And quite a few of custom client side metadata driven C# coding to build dynamic SQL, advanced custom UI framework etc.? Then your transition to mySQL: should be probably rather smooth... But if you use MS SQL/ .NET SQLBulkLoad classes then you might need to substitute them with custom coding ... I do it different way when using MS SQL: I'm trying to keep as much as possible business rules and logic on server side implemented in Stored Procedures, User Defined Functions, Views etc. By doing it that way I can keep my client side layer as thin and as dumb as possible, and my C# business layer not overloaded with custom "plumbing" etc. Advantages: clear "separations of concerns" of different application system layers, streamlined coding, relatively low support and functionality extensions costs, possibility to have all kinds of modern UIs using the same core business and data layers, as MS software supports all the modern UI-development technologies ... Disadvantages: I'm "bound" to MS SQL back-end... But nor I nor my customers do not care about that binding as it doesn't limit any way our freedom to support and to extend current solutions, and my customers do not yet have that much data to not fit one MS SQL Express database, even customer with more than 8000 users of an ASP.NET web site running for four years without any serious issues ... When my customers will need more processing power then we will probably move to a hosting site/cloud.... If you can split your databases into many smaller databases then you can also put them on hosting sites and "wrap" by web services still running using MS Windows, and then make your application consolidating that data - I guess it wouldn't be needed to get gigabytes of data retrieved to your client layer during such consolidation?... Thank you. -- Shamil 17 ?????? 2011, 23:11 ?? jwcolby : > Shamil, > > OK, so now that we understand that it is in fact a client's new server that I was discussing > originally, let's go ahead and discuss doing the same thing here at my home office. > > First take a look at this article: > > http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/move_from_microsoft_SQL_Server.html > > It would appear that I could in fact run MySQL right on my existing server should I so desire. > > I have built my mongo server around Windows 2008 and SQL Server 2008. I have written a custom C# > application which performs massive table updates every month. Due to the fact that the server runs > an X64 version of windows and I installed an X64 version of Visual Studio on the server, and the > fact that the X64 version does not support "edit and continue", I actually run the C# application on > vmDev which runs an X32 version of Visual Studio. > > The application runs on a VM and the actual database manipulations run on the X64 server. The > application, written in C#, executes dynamic SQL on the server, getting back results. > > If I needed to, what would be the "costs" to move to MySQL? The question becomes: > > 1) Cost to install and come up to speed on MySQL. > 2) The complexity (time) to move the data from SQL Server to MSSql. > 3) What is involved in porting the code to use dynamic SQL that MySQL supports? > > In my case the databases I manipulate are not very complex. Typically each database has two or a > few tables. I am not using stored procedures in SQL Server, in fact I have intentionally migrated > away from doing so (I used to). My "stored procedures" are now C# routines and dynamic SQL. I find > C# much more flexible as a language and find no need for stored procedures *for this application*. > > My take on migrating this application to MySQL is that I would not hesitate to do so if I needed to, > and I do not currently need to. I do not need to run the C# code itself on the server so even if > the database or MySQL were hosted on Linux, I could still probably run my application, assuming the > Dynamic SQL port. > > After the migration, the TCO seems to be similar, or perhaps lower than an MS only solution since > SQL Server licensing costs go away. If I were to migrate to Linux then Windows licensing costs go > away. These are not insubstantial costs. I do not use Linux or MySQL so I cannot speak with > authority but they both appear to have reached the point where they are not rocket science, or any > more so that maintaining Windows server software is. > > I am really exploring this more in the context of future business. MS licensing is already so > convoluted and costly that small businesses are protesting server based systems. They used to use > Access and I used to recommend Access, be and fe, but am I going to continue doing so? I think not. > > So what do I recommend when MS wants $10K to $20K for the Windows / SQL Server licenses for a new > server? For the small businesses I work for this is a large chunk of change. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > > > > Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > > > > I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > > I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > > > > How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > > How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > > Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > > Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > > What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > > Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > > .... etc ... > > > > IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > > > > You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > > > > I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > > > > Hans you noted: > > > > <<<<<<<<<<< > > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > > > > As Darryl writes: > > > > <<<< > > In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access > >>>>> > > I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > > > > I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > > > > Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > > I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Nov 17 14:48:06 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:48:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services Environment References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: We are thinking about running Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services environment. Our Access development work would be done on a separate PC that has the "Full Version" of Access 2010. This approach is new to us and I am curious if others have tried this. Are there any issues that we should be aware of? Thanks, Brad From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Nov 17 14:50:31 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:50:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] TOC MySQL vs SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4EC55BFB.1080506@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0A20F3EC-FBF6-4150-9011-8CD69F63C5AE@phulse.com> This is my biggest issue with stored procedures. I like them in theory, but it creates an additional layer of complexity for your application/project and is less maintainable from a developers point of view - especially when you work in teams. I prefer to simply go with the philosophy which is that your business logic stays entirely in your code and you use whatever features your DBAL / ORM can provide. But this is what works for us in a CRUD + MVC environment. I guess, for a DBA, it makes more sense. - Hans On 2011-11-17, at 12:34 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > John -- > > Well, you use SQL backend mainly as a "dumb" relational engine, no (advanced) server side static T-SQL Stored Procedures, no T-SQL User Defined Functions simulating "virtual" tables?.... > And quite a few of custom client side metadata driven C# coding to build dynamic SQL, advanced custom UI framework etc.? > > Then your transition to mySQL: should be probably rather smooth... > But if you use MS SQL/ .NET SQLBulkLoad classes then you might need to substitute them with custom coding > ... > > I do it different way when using MS SQL: I'm trying to keep as much as possible business rules and logic on server side implemented in Stored Procedures, User Defined Functions, Views etc. By doing it that way I can keep my client side layer as thin and as dumb as possible, and my C# business layer not overloaded with custom "plumbing" etc. > > Advantages: clear "separations of concerns" of different application system layers, streamlined coding, relatively low support and functionality extensions costs, possibility to have all kinds of modern UIs using the same core business and data layers, as MS software supports all the modern UI-development technologies ... > > Disadvantages: I'm "bound" to MS SQL back-end... > > But nor I nor my customers do not care about that binding as it doesn't limit any way our freedom to support and to extend current solutions, and my customers do not yet have that much data to not fit one MS SQL Express database, even customer with more than 8000 users of an ASP.NET web site running for four years without any serious issues ... > > When my customers will need more processing power then we will probably move to a hosting site/cloud.... > > If you can split your databases into many smaller databases then you can also put them on hosting sites and "wrap" by web services still running using MS Windows, and then make your application consolidating that data - I guess it wouldn't be needed to get gigabytes of data retrieved to your client layer during such consolidation?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 17 ?????? 2011, 23:11 ?? jwcolby : >> Shamil, >> >> OK, so now that we understand that it is in fact a client's new server that I was discussing >> originally, let's go ahead and discuss doing the same thing here at my home office. >> >> First take a look at this article: >> >> http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/move_from_microsoft_SQL_Server.html >> >> It would appear that I could in fact run MySQL right on my existing server should I so desire. >> >> I have built my mongo server around Windows 2008 and SQL Server 2008. I have written a custom C# >> application which performs massive table updates every month. Due to the fact that the server runs >> an X64 version of windows and I installed an X64 version of Visual Studio on the server, and the >> fact that the X64 version does not support "edit and continue", I actually run the C# application on >> vmDev which runs an X32 version of Visual Studio. >> >> The application runs on a VM and the actual database manipulations run on the X64 server. The >> application, written in C#, executes dynamic SQL on the server, getting back results. >> >> If I needed to, what would be the "costs" to move to MySQL? The question becomes: >> >> 1) Cost to install and come up to speed on MySQL. >> 2) The complexity (time) to move the data from SQL Server to MSSql. >> 3) What is involved in porting the code to use dynamic SQL that MySQL supports? >> >> In my case the databases I manipulate are not very complex. Typically each database has two or a >> few tables. I am not using stored procedures in SQL Server, in fact I have intentionally migrated >> away from doing so (I used to). My "stored procedures" are now C# routines and dynamic SQL. I find >> C# much more flexible as a language and find no need for stored procedures *for this application*. >> >> My take on migrating this application to MySQL is that I would not hesitate to do so if I needed to, >> and I do not currently need to. I do not need to run the C# code itself on the server so even if >> the database or MySQL were hosted on Linux, I could still probably run my application, assuming the >> Dynamic SQL port. >> >> After the migration, the TCO seems to be similar, or perhaps lower than an MS only solution since >> SQL Server licensing costs go away. If I were to migrate to Linux then Windows licensing costs go >> away. These are not insubstantial costs. I do not use Linux or MySQL so I cannot speak with >> authority but they both appear to have reached the point where they are not rocket science, or any >> more so that maintaining Windows server software is. >> >> I am really exploring this more in the context of future business. MS licensing is already so >> convoluted and costly that small businesses are protesting server based systems. They used to use >> Access and I used to recommend Access, be and fe, but am I going to continue doing so? I think not. >> >> So what do I recommend when MS wants $10K to $20K for the Windows / SQL Server licenses for a new >> server? For the small businesses I work for this is a large chunk of change. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>> Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- >>> >>> Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... >>> >>> I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. >>> I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. >>> >>> How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? >>> How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? >>> Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? >>> Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? >>> What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? >>> Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? >>> .... etc ... >>> >>> IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. >>> >>> You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. >>> >>> I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... >>> >>> Hans you noted: >>> >>> <<<<<<<<<<< >>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: >>> >>> 1. They really need a certain feature >>> >>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) >>> >>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. >>> >>> As Darryl writes: >>> >>> <<<< >>> In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>>>>> >>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. >>> >>> I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. >>> >>> Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... >>> I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Nov 17 15:12:08 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:12:08 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheetto a JPG File References: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857C@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> <4EC435F0.21723.28A8EFA1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: All, Thanks for the assistance, I appreciate it. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 4:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheetto a JPG File Well blow me down, who'd a thunk it? Worksheets("Sheet1").Range("A1:D4").CopyPicture xlScreen, xlBitmap Once you have the image on the clipboard, you can use the example OleCreatePictureIndirect() code directly in Access to do it. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 21:33, Martin Reid wrote: > Or > > See this thread > > http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233108 > > Martin > > Sent from my Windows Phone > ________________________________ > From: Stuart McLachlan > Sent: 16/11/2011 21:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File > > I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows > Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is > essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. > > -- > Stuart > > On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > > > Folks, > > > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > > > Sincerely, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 15:37:00 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 01:37:00 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?TOC_MySQL_vs_SQL_Server?= In-Reply-To: <0A20F3EC-FBF6-4150-9011-8CD69F63C5AE@phulse.com> References: <0A20F3EC-FBF6-4150-9011-8CD69F63C5AE@phulse.com> Message-ID: Hans -- We obviously are on "different sides of barricades" concerning the question "dumb" vs. "smart' SQL backend :) If we can agree to neglect all the "hype buzz" of "developing once run on many types of backends (Access, MS SQL, mySQL,)" then can we try to evaluate from practical point of view what is more manageable/affordable to develop/have ?: 1) "dumb" backend and business layer logic concentrated in custom (C#) layer coding or 2) "as smart as possible" backend with as dumb as as possible business layer logic implemented in custom (C#) coding... Myself and yourself I suppose are basing our practice on the same conceptual point of view that there is no absolute truth and that every (technical) solutions is a "balance of interests" but we obviously keep rather different development practices. I'd expect we would not come to a common ground/any positive definitive useful in practice outcome if we will start "darting" each other saying that "A is better than B because ...." - we will very probably end up in set of useless(?) fallacies http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/index.html#index So I'd propose if you and others are interested in discussing (1) and (2) approaches outlined above just to create a list of "emotions-free" advantages and disadvantages of both approaches. Then "armored" with such lists one can make a balanced decision what approach better suites their own experiences, practices, custom requirements... Rhetoric question: Why keeping business logic in custom code but not in (as much as possible) backend SPs and UDFs is more maintainable from a developer point of view, especially if you work in teams? I do use MVC concept for a long time, you can note I have used and promoted it even in VBA - so called "DEEP object concept (1998)" but for me MVC doesn't force me to put business logic in code when it could be kept on backend side: additional abstraction layer does create some more complexity but it gives a lot more flexibility in implementing all kinds of clients without any biding to custom object layer, and it keeps as much as possible data processing on SQL Server side.... Please note I'm not stating my approach is better than yours in all contexts, and that I'm never using "dumb" backends in my solutions but I do always try to develop "smart" backend when that is possible and that happens in most cases of my practice... Thank you. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 00:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > > This is my biggest issue with stored procedures. I like them in theory, but it creates an additional layer of complexity for your application/project and is less maintainable from a developers point of view - especially when you work in teams. I prefer to simply go with the philosophy which is that your business logic stays entirely in your code and you use whatever features your DBAL / ORM can provide. But this is what works for us in a CRUD + MVC environment. I guess, for a DBA, it makes more sense. > > - Hans > > On 2011-11-17, at 12:34 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > John -- > > > > Well, you use SQL backend mainly as a "dumb" relational engine, no (advanced) server side static T-SQL Stored Procedures, no T-SQL User Defined Functions simulating "virtual" tables?.... > > And quite a few of custom client side metadata driven C# coding to build dynamic SQL, advanced custom UI framework etc.? > > > > Then your transition to mySQL: should be probably rather smooth... > > But if you use MS SQL/ .NET SQLBulkLoad classes then you might need to substitute them with custom coding > > ... > > > > I do it different way when using MS SQL: I'm trying to keep as much as possible business rules and logic on server side implemented in Stored Procedures, User Defined Functions, Views etc. By doing it that way I can keep my client side layer as thin and as dumb as possible, and my C# business layer not overloaded with custom "plumbing" etc. > > > > Advantages: clear "separations of concerns" of different application system layers, streamlined coding, relatively low support and functionality extensions costs, possibility to have all kinds of modern UIs using the same core business and data layers, as MS software supports all the modern UI-development technologies ... > > > > Disadvantages: I'm "bound" to MS SQL back-end... > > > > But nor I nor my customers do not care about that binding as it doesn't limit any way our freedom to support and to extend current solutions, and my customers do not yet have that much data to not fit one MS SQL Express database, even customer with more than 8000 users of an ASP.NET web site running for four years without any serious issues ... > > > > When my customers will need more processing power then we will probably move to a hosting site/cloud.... > > > > If you can split your databases into many smaller databases then you can also put them on hosting sites and "wrap" by web services still running using MS Windows, and then make your application consolidating that data - I guess it wouldn't be needed to get gigabytes of data retrieved to your client layer during such consolidation?... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > 17 ?????? 2011, 23:11 ?? jwcolby : > >> Shamil, > >> > >> OK, so now that we understand that it is in fact a client's new server that I was discussing > >> originally, let's go ahead and discuss doing the same thing here at my home office. > >> > >> First take a look at this article: > >> > >> http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/move_from_microsoft_SQL_Server.html > >> > >> It would appear that I could in fact run MySQL right on my existing server should I so desire. > >> > >> I have built my mongo server around Windows 2008 and SQL Server 2008. I have written a custom C# > >> application which performs massive table updates every month. Due to the fact that the server runs > >> an X64 version of windows and I installed an X64 version of Visual Studio on the server, and the > >> fact that the X64 version does not support "edit and continue", I actually run the C# application on > >> vmDev which runs an X32 version of Visual Studio. > >> > >> The application runs on a VM and the actual database manipulations run on the X64 server. The > >> application, written in C#, executes dynamic SQL on the server, getting back results. > >> > >> If I needed to, what would be the "costs" to move to MySQL? The question becomes: > >> > >> 1) Cost to install and come up to speed on MySQL. > >> 2) The complexity (time) to move the data from SQL Server to MSSql. > >> 3) What is involved in porting the code to use dynamic SQL that MySQL supports? > >> > >> In my case the databases I manipulate are not very complex. Typically each database has two or a > >> few tables. I am not using stored procedures in SQL Server, in fact I have intentionally migrated > >> away from doing so (I used to). My "stored procedures" are now C# routines and dynamic SQL. I find > >> C# much more flexible as a language and find no need for stored procedures *for this application*. > >> > >> My take on migrating this application to MySQL is that I would not hesitate to do so if I needed to, > >> and I do not currently need to. I do not need to run the C# code itself on the server so even if > >> the database or MySQL were hosted on Linux, I could still probably run my application, assuming the > >> Dynamic SQL port. > >> > >> After the migration, the TCO seems to be similar, or perhaps lower than an MS only solution since > >> SQL Server licensing costs go away. If I were to migrate to Linux then Windows licensing costs go > >> away. These are not insubstantial costs. I do not use Linux or MySQL so I cannot speak with > >> authority but they both appear to have reached the point where they are not rocket science, or any > >> more so that maintaining Windows server software is. > >> > >> I am really exploring this more in the context of future business. MS licensing is already so > >> convoluted and costly that small businesses are protesting server based systems. They used to use > >> Access and I used to recommend Access, be and fe, but am I going to continue doing so? I think not. > >> > >> So what do I recommend when MS wants $10K to $20K for the Windows / SQL Server licenses for a new > >> server? For the small businesses I work for this is a large chunk of change. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> Colby Consulting > >> > >> Reality is what refuses to go away > >> when you do not believe in it > >> > >> On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>> Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > >>> > >>> Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > >>> > >>> I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > >>> I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > >>> > >>> How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > >>> How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > >>> Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > >>> Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > >>> What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > >>> Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > >>> .... etc ... > >>> > >>> IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > >>> > >>> You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > >>> > >>> I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > >>> > >>> Hans you noted: > >>> > >>> <<<<<<<<<<< > >>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > >>> > >>> 1. They really need a certain feature > >>> > >>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > >>> > >>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>> > >>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > >>> > >>> As Darryl writes: > >>> > >>> <<<< > >>> In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access > >>>>>>> > >>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > >>> > >>> I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > >>> > >>> Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > >>> I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 17 15:45:42 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:45:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services Environment In-Reply-To: References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <005001cca572$41abe1a0$c503a4e0$@net> Your only challenge might be to keep the two environments synched as far as versions go. I'm not sure the issue of the run-time aways being the same as the full-version was resolved...was it ? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 3:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services > Environment > > We are thinking about running Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal > Services > environment. > > Our Access development work would be done on a separate PC that has the > "Full Version" of Access 2010. > > This approach is new to us and I am curious if others have tried this. > > Are there any issues that we should be aware of? > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 15:58:48 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 01:58:48 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?How_to_configure_WUA_=28was=3A_New_SQL_Server?= =?utf-8?b?CWxpY2Vuc2UJc2NoZW1lIC4uLik=?= In-Reply-To: <789EF360B9B14964B970FBC3C6554F00@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <789EF360B9B14964B970FBC3C6554F00@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim, Windows Management Instrumentation based solution could work for you I suppose - here is a bunch of URLs: C#/WMI: How to remotely check if Windows has updates ready to be installed? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3615895/c-wmi-how-to-remotely-check-if-windows-has-updates-ready-to-be-installed How to monitor Windows Update Status via WMI? http://www.paessler.com/knowledgebase/en/topic/3453-how-to-monitor-windows-update-status-via-wmi WMI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Management_Instrumentation WBEM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web-Based_Enterprise_Management CIM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Information_Model_(computing) WMI Explorer http://www.ks-soft.net/hostmon.eng/wmi/index.htm LINQ to WMI http://linq2wmi.codeplex.com/ .. Thank you. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 00:31 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Hi Gustav: > > I would like to see a feature accompanying the update process that will > email me when an urgent issue requires user intervention... > > Is there such a product out there or some hidden feature in the MS OS? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:07 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license > scheme ...) > > Hi Hans > > Yes, that is strange. Or does a category "Extremely urgent updates that > overrules setting for later install" for updates exist? > > /gustav > > >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 17-11-2011 09:09 >>> > Hej Gustav, > > Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to > download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? > > Best regards, > Hans-Christian Andersen > > On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > > > Hi Jim et al > > > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for > Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority > server expected to run 24/7: > > > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > > Hi John: > > > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual > but > > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have > a > > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his > data > > that I knew anything was wrong. > > > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 17 16:40:43 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:40:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: <789EF360B9B14964B970FBC3C6554F00@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <285AD12C0F9C4279942930B437AB4548@creativesystemdesigns.com> Thanks Shamil...I will definitely look into this. No more surprise reboots would be a real plus. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Hi Jim, Windows Management Instrumentation based solution could work for you I suppose - here is a bunch of URLs: C#/WMI: How to remotely check if Windows has updates ready to be installed? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3615895/c-wmi-how-to-remotely-check-if-wi ndows-has-updates-ready-to-be-installed How to monitor Windows Update Status via WMI? http://www.paessler.com/knowledgebase/en/topic/3453-how-to-monitor-windows-u pdate-status-via-wmi WMI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Management_Instrumentation WBEM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web-Based_Enterprise_Management CIM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Information_Model_(computing) WMI Explorer http://www.ks-soft.net/hostmon.eng/wmi/index.htm LINQ to WMI http://linq2wmi.codeplex.com/ .. Thank you. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 00:31 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Hi Gustav: > > I would like to see a feature accompanying the update process that will > email me when an urgent issue requires user intervention... > > Is there such a product out there or some hidden feature in the MS OS? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:07 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license > scheme ...) > > Hi Hans > > Yes, that is strange. Or does a category "Extremely urgent updates that > overrules setting for later install" for updates exist? > > /gustav > > >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 17-11-2011 09:09 >>> > Hej Gustav, > > Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to > download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? > > Best regards, > Hans-Christian Andersen > > On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > > > Hi Jim et al > > > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for > Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority > server expected to run 24/7: > > > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > > Hi John: > > > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual > but > > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have > a > > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his > data > > that I knew anything was wrong. > > > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Nov 18 03:54:41 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:54:41 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Office_365_-_custom_development_using_Excel_C?= =?utf-8?q?alculation_Services_=28ECS=29_and_Word_Automation_Services_=28W?= =?utf-8?b?QVMp?= Message-ID: Hi All -- Does anybody practices subj? Do ECS and WAS available within Office 365 hosting plans? Here are some informational links: Office 365 List of Microsoft Office 365 Service Provider Partners http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/list-of-microsoft-office-365-service-provider-partners/ Minimum System Requirements for Office 365 http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/minimum-system-requirements-for-office-365/ Developing with SharePoint 2010 Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx Developing for SharePoint 2010 Excel Services Using Web Services or the Excel Services REST API http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff640648.aspx Open XML SDK + Office Services: Better Together http://blogs.msdn.com/b/brian_jones/archive/2010/02/26/open-xml-sdk-office-services-better-together.aspx Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Nov 18 06:19:11 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:19:11 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?OT=3A_=22I_feel_your_pain=2C_man!=22_or_=22Pr?= =?utf-8?q?ogrammers_are_most_effective_when_they_avoid_writing_code=2E=2E?= =?utf-8?b?LiI=?= Message-ID: Hi All, This and the other day I have read through and collected a set of links on articles I liked to read about our profession, authored mainly by John D. Cook (http://www.johndcook.com/blog/) and I'd like to share that links with you for your Friday/weekend reading: Enjoy! "... no matter how often you want to play the role of a hero, there will always be circumstances that test the limits of your ability to be one. It?s difficult to judge when helping someone means doing something immoral, and it?s even harder to admit you are unable to solve someone?s problem ? and chances are, that someone will view you as incompetent because you were unable to help them..." Your job is trivial. (But I couldn?t do it.) http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/01/14/your-job-is-trivial-but-i-couldnt-do-it/ Why Can't Programmers.. Program? http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html The buck stops with the programmer http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/19/the-buck-stops-with-the-programmer/ The dark side of linchpins http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/05/10/the-dark-side-of-linchpins/ Do you really want to be indispensable? http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/04/22/being-indispensable/ Where does the programming effort go? http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/18/where-does-the-programming-effort-go/ Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/12/23/why-programmers-are-not-paid-in-proportion-to-their-productivity/ Whatever happened to programming http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/whatever-happened-to-programming/?Programming The plumber programmer http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/11/15/plumber-programmers/ Programming the last mile http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/29/programming-the-last-mile/ It doesn?t pay to be the computer guy http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/11/22/the-computer-guy/ 10 Reasons It Doesn?t Pay To Be ?The Computer Guy? http://www.lifereboot.com/2007/10-reasons-it-doesnt-pay-to-be-the-computer-guy/ Why there will always be programmers http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/10/27/why-there-will-always-be-programmers/ ... Thank you. -- Shamil From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Fri Nov 18 08:14:55 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:14:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] EatBloat latest version?? availability Message-ID: Hi Folks, I've gone through old posts and see references that Dan was working on version 5, also that others were working on a .net version. However, I'm running Acc2003 and am looking for the latest version of the EatBloat routine Was it ever set up on databaseadvisors.com? I looked and didn't find it. Thanks in advance. Jack From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Nov 18 11:30:48 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:30:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most effective when they avoid writing code..." In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <363FB114CEFE4062B345D2BA48A28EC5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Very interesting stuff Shamil. It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and now everything is working. The clients like to see more concern and effort and sometimes fixed something fast can be bad for you as a programmer. This of course why I like a flat rate type insurance-policy support contracts. Sometimes you are not paid for what you do but if you do it right, in the first place, it can go for months with little more than a status report and an invoice. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most effective when they avoid writing code..." Hi All, This and the other day I have read through and collected a set of links on articles I liked to read about our profession, authored mainly by John D. Cook (http://www.johndcook.com/blog/) and I'd like to share that links with you for your Friday/weekend reading: Enjoy! "... no matter how often you want to play the role of a hero, there will always be circumstances that test the limits of your ability to be one. It's difficult to judge when helping someone means doing something immoral, and it's even harder to admit you are unable to solve someone's problem - and chances are, that someone will view you as incompetent because you were unable to help them..." Your job is trivial. (But I couldn't do it.) http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/01/14/your-job-is-trivial-but-i-couldnt-d o-it/ Why Can't Programmers.. Program? http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html The buck stops with the programmer http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/19/the-buck-stops-with-the-programmer/ The dark side of linchpins http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/05/10/the-dark-side-of-linchpins/ Do you really want to be indispensable? http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/04/22/being-indispensable/ Where does the programming effort go? http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/18/where-does-the-programming-effort-g o/ Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/12/23/why-programmers-are-not-paid-in-pro portion-to-their-productivity/ Whatever happened to programming http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/whatever-happened-to-programming/?Pro gramming The plumber programmer http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/11/15/plumber-programmers/ Programming the last mile http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/29/programming-the-last-mile/ It doesn't pay to be the computer guy http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/11/22/the-computer-guy/ 10 Reasons It Doesn't Pay To Be "The Computer Guy" http://www.lifereboot.com/2007/10-reasons-it-doesnt-pay-to-be-the-computer-g uy/ Why there will always be programmers http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/10/27/why-there-will-always-be-programmer s/ ... Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 18 15:20:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:20:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] XP vs Vista vs sp1 vs 2008 vs 32 vs 64 benchmarked Message-ID: <4EC6CC07.5050207@colbyconsulting.com> http://forum.notebookreview.com/windows-os-software/242891-xp-vs-vista-vs-sp1-vs-2008-vs-32-vs-64-benchmarked.html -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Nov 18 16:08:40 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 14:08:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] XP vs Vista vs sp1 vs 2008 vs 32 vs 64 benchmarked In-Reply-To: <4EC6CC07.5050207@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC6CC07.5050207@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Interesting, but a shame it's from 2008 and doesnt include Win7. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-18, at 1:20 PM, jwcolby wrote: > > http://forum.notebookreview.com/windows-os-software/242891-xp-vs-vista-vs-sp1-vs-2008-vs-32-vs-64-benchmarked.html > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Fri Nov 18 17:08:57 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:08:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services Environment References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> <005001cca572$41abe1a0$c503a4e0$@net> Message-ID: Mark, Thanks for the help/info. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 3:46 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services Environment Your only challenge might be to keep the two environments synched as far as versions go. I'm not sure the issue of the run-time aways being the same as the full-version was resolved...was it ? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 3:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services > Environment > > We are thinking about running Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal > Services > environment. > > Our Access development work would be done on a separate PC that has the > "Full Version" of Access 2010. > > This approach is new to us and I am curious if others have tried this. > > Are there any issues that we should be aware of? > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 18 17:43:47 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:43:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I know the feeling so well: http://xkcd.com/979/ -- Stuart From john at winhaven.net Fri Nov 18 18:20:14 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 18:20:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <033801cca651$0243a090$06cae1b0$@winhaven.net> Yea, been there with you. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 5:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that I know the feeling so well: http://xkcd.com/979/ -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Nov 18 19:51:10 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:51:10 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <84B116FF8B2448E0989A814175F8CBEF@creativesystemdesigns.com> I recognized that error. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 3:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that I know the feeling so well: http://xkcd.com/979/ -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Sat Nov 19 08:12:09 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:12:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] EatBloat latest version?? availability --- EIasT - further review Message-ID: Dan, Further to my (off list) note from late last night, I did a little more review. I opened the EIasT.mdb with a breakpoint to allow stepping thru the code. In the problem data base, the queries and forms - up to the problem form - are all exported as text as expected. After the error, the code stops on a STOP statement, as it should. If I step through, it continues with the next procedure in code and does Import the text that was previously exported. It seems I have a corrupted Form and that its source can not be retrieved. I did not find any resolution to the "there isn't enough memory to perform this operation. Close unneeded programs and try the operation again". Seems the consensus is to rebuild the form involved. So from an EIasT view, I did use the utility against another database and all was well. It did build a directory and saved all queries, forms, reports and nodules (I don't have any macros), It did import all the text. It does Compact and Repair. And the database , original and rebuilt are available. Good stuuf. I'm impressed with your code. No wasted code; very concise. I especially like the line numbers in the vba. I take it that is based on your use of FMC utilities. The progress bars are a nice feature - seems there are lots of people trying to build these based on forums I've seen. Again, thanks for responding quickly, and thanks for the EIasT code. Perhaps it should be made available at databaseadvisors as a utility. Jack From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Nov 19 08:14:18 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 18:14:18 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?OT=3A_=22I_feel_your_pain=2C_man!=22_or_=22Pr?= =?utf-8?q?ogrammers_are_most_effective_when_they_avoid_writing_code=2E=2E?= =?utf-8?b?LiI=?= In-Reply-To: <363FB114CEFE4062B345D2BA48A28EC5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <363FB114CEFE4062B345D2BA48A28EC5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- > It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on > site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and > now everything is working. Yes, that's true: "Some things you just can't explain..." http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/00/Jan/explain.html :) Have nice weekend. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 21:32 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Very interesting stuff Shamil. > > It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on > site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and > now everything is working. > > The clients like to see more concern and effort and sometimes fixed > something fast can be bad for you as a programmer. > > This of course why I like a flat rate type insurance-policy support > contracts. Sometimes you are not paid for what you do but if you do it > right, in the first place, it can go for months with little more than a > status report and an invoice. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:19 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most > effective when they avoid writing code..." > > Hi All, > > This and the other day I have read through and collected a set of links on > articles I liked to read about our profession, authored mainly by John D. > Cook (http://www.johndcook.com/blog/) and I'd like to share that links with > you for your Friday/weekend reading: > > Enjoy! > > "... no matter how often you want to play the role of a hero, there will > always be circumstances that test the limits of your ability to be one. It's > difficult to judge when helping someone means doing something immoral, and > it's even harder to admit you are unable to solve someone's problem - and > chances are, that someone will view you as incompetent because you were > unable to help them..." > > Your job is trivial. (But I couldn't do it.) > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/01/14/your-job-is-trivial-but-i-couldnt-d > o-it/ > > Why Can't Programmers.. Program? > http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html > > The buck stops with the programmer > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/19/the-buck-stops-with-the-programmer/ > > The dark side of linchpins > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/05/10/the-dark-side-of-linchpins/ > > Do you really want to be indispensable? > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/04/22/being-indispensable/ > > Where does the programming effort go? > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/18/where-does-the-programming-effort-g > o/ > > Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/12/23/why-programmers-are-not-paid-in-pro > portion-to-their-productivity/ > > Whatever happened to programming > http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/whatever-happened-to-programming/?Pro > gramming > > The plumber programmer > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/11/15/plumber-programmers/ > > Programming the last mile > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/29/programming-the-last-mile/ > > It doesn't pay to be the computer guy > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/11/22/the-computer-guy/ > > 10 Reasons It Doesn't Pay To Be "The Computer Guy" > http://www.lifereboot.com/2007/10-reasons-it-doesnt-pay-to-be-the-computer-g > uy/ > > Why there will always be programmers > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/10/27/why-there-will-always-be-programmer > s/ > ... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Nov 19 09:23:12 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 07:23:12 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Message-ID: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz zle/ Rocky From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Nov 19 09:44:49 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:44:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] EatBloat latest version?? availability --- EIasT - further review In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002101cca6d2$2bb72e70$83258b50$@comcast.net> Hi Jack, Glad you liked this so far! I had thought about putting the object names in the status bar. It seems as though if the name of the object that failed had been there, that would have given you a clue as to which object had gone bad. The line numbers come from an Access utility called M-Z Tools for VBA. I use it constantly. And it's free - with a requested donation. http://www.mztools.com/index.aspx Also - I reread my instructions and forgot to say that this exports all objects except tables. It's been my experience that table bloat and problems are best solved with Compact & Repair. Would it be possible for you to send a copy of the Demo.mdb for me to test on? I don't think I could fix it, but it helps when testing to have a 'real world' example. If you change .mdb to .pdf it will get through just fine. Thanks for your feedback, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jack and Pat Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 8:12 AM To: AccessD Group Discussion Subject: Re: [AccessD] EatBloat latest version?? availability --- EIasT - further review Dan, Further to my (off list) note from late last night, I did a little more review. I opened the EIasT.mdb with a breakpoint to allow stepping thru the code. In the problem data base, the queries and forms - up to the problem form - are all exported as text as expected. After the error, the code stops on a STOP statement, as it should. If I step through, it continues with the next procedure in code and does Import the text that was previously exported. It seems I have a corrupted Form and that its source can not be retrieved. I did not find any resolution to the "there isn't enough memory to perform this operation. Close unneeded programs and try the operation again". Seems the consensus is to rebuild the form involved. So from an EIasT view, I did use the utility against another database and all was well. It did build a directory and saved all queries, forms, reports and nodules (I don't have any macros), It did import all the text. It does Compact and Repair. And the database , original and rebuilt are available. Good stuuf. I'm impressed with your code. No wasted code; very concise. I especially like the line numbers in the vba. I take it that is based on your use of FMC utilities. The progress bars are a nice feature - seems there are lots of people trying to build these based on forums I've seen. Again, thanks for responding quickly, and thanks for the EIasT code. Perhaps it should be made available at databaseadvisors as a utility. Jack -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 19 10:01:10 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:01:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> That website is hilarious.... And that one comic about the array indices is just such a "tell"....and should be sent to Bill Gates. > http://xkcd.com/979/ > > -- > Stuart From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 19 10:58:11 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 08:58:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: These look interesting. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 7:23 AM To: 'Off Topic'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz zle/ Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 19 11:01:22 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:01:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> References: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> Message-ID: <621D83FB7CAC4F1282C179BBFDAEE3A9@creativesystemdesigns.com> That is and is going to be a classic. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 8:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Been there, done that That website is hilarious.... And that one comic about the array indices is just such a "tell"....and should be sent to Bill Gates. > http://xkcd.com/979/ > > -- > Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 19 11:01:59 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:01:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most effective when they avoid writing code..." In-Reply-To: References: <363FB114CEFE4062B345D2BA48A28EC5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: As long as the bill is paid. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 6:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most effective when they avoid writing code..." Hi Jim -- > It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on > site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and > now everything is working. Yes, that's true: "Some things you just can't explain..." http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/00/Jan/explain.html :) Have nice weekend. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 21:32 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Very interesting stuff Shamil. > > It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on > site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and > now everything is working. > > The clients like to see more concern and effort and sometimes fixed > something fast can be bad for you as a programmer. > > This of course why I like a flat rate type insurance-policy support > contracts. Sometimes you are not paid for what you do but if you do it > right, in the first place, it can go for months with little more than a > status report and an invoice. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:19 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most > effective when they avoid writing code..." > > Hi All, > > This and the other day I have read through and collected a set of links on > articles I liked to read about our profession, authored mainly by John D. > Cook (http://www.johndcook.com/blog/) and I'd like to share that links with > you for your Friday/weekend reading: > > Enjoy! > > "... no matter how often you want to play the role of a hero, there will > always be circumstances that test the limits of your ability to be one. It's > difficult to judge when helping someone means doing something immoral, and > it's even harder to admit you are unable to solve someone's problem - and > chances are, that someone will view you as incompetent because you were > unable to help them..." > > Your job is trivial. (But I couldn't do it.) > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/01/14/your-job-is-trivial-but-i-couldnt-d > o-it/ > > Why Can't Programmers.. Program? > http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html > > The buck stops with the programmer > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/19/the-buck-stops-with-the-programmer/ > > The dark side of linchpins > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/05/10/the-dark-side-of-linchpins/ > > Do you really want to be indispensable? > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/04/22/being-indispensable/ > > Where does the programming effort go? > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/18/where-does-the-programming-effort-g > o/ > > Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/12/23/why-programmers-are-not-paid-in-pro > portion-to-their-productivity/ > > Whatever happened to programming > http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/whatever-happened-to-programming/?Pro > gramming > > The plumber programmer > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/11/15/plumber-programmers/ > > Programming the last mile > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/29/programming-the-last-mile/ > > It doesn't pay to be the computer guy > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/11/22/the-computer-guy/ > > 10 Reasons It Doesn't Pay To Be "The Computer Guy" > http://www.lifereboot.com/2007/10-reasons-it-doesnt-pay-to-be-the-computer-g > uy/ > > Why there will always be programmers > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/10/27/why-there-will-always-be-programmer > s/ > ... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 19 17:30:37 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 09:30:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> Message-ID: <4EC83C1D.15974.3860F56D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> This one: http://xkcd.com/163/ ? On 19 Nov 2011 at 11:01, Mark Simms wrote: > That website is hilarious.... > And that one comic about the array indices is just such a "tell"....and > should be sent to Bill Gates. > > > http://xkcd.com/979/ > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 20 09:51:41 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 10:51:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC83C1D.15974.3860F56D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> <4EC83C1D.15974.3860F56D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <004701cca79c$4c165310$e442f930$@net> Yep. > > This one: http://xkcd.com/163/ ? From vbacreations at gmail.com Sun Nov 20 12:34:52 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:34:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook Message-ID: A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server Express was a free Sql Server engine? I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking some other softwars off my machine? I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the option to retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that there is no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing an unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for Outlook. -- From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 20 15:33:47 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:33:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named instance and correctly removed. -- Stuart On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. > > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller > also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. > > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to > have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. > > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server Express > was a free Sql Server engine? > > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would > Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking > some other softwars off my machine? > > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep > certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the option to > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that there is > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing an > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for Outlook. > > -- > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 20 16:16:40 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 22:16:40 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Thanks Shamil I am starting to do a lot of stuff with Office 365 so a few pointers is always handy. FWIIW I find it to be an excellent solution for small to medium sized businesses who either don't have the time, expertise or cash to run their own sharepoint site and exchange server. The software works pretty well, there are a few bugs but they seem to fix them fairly quickly as well. Support (at least in Oz) has been very good. Any issues on setup I have had had been quickly (and accurately) resolved. Most of the issues I have currently having are to do with me and my lack of knowledge in some areas, rather than the platform itself. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Friday, 18 November 2011 8:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) Hi All -- Does anybody practices subj? Do ECS and WAS available within Office 365 hosting plans? Here are some informational links: Office 365 List of Microsoft Office 365 Service Provider Partners http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/list-of-microsoft-office-365-service-provider-partners/ Minimum System Requirements for Office 365 http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/minimum-system-requirements-for-office-365/ Developing with SharePoint 2010 Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx Developing for SharePoint 2010 Excel Services Using Web Services or the Excel Services REST API http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff640648.aspx Open XML SDK + Office Services: Better Together http://blogs.msdn.com/b/brian_jones/archive/2010/02/26/open-xml-sdk-office-services-better-together.aspx Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 20 18:02:06 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:02:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> I am about to subscribe to Office 365....for a document management and display solution. What does this refer to : "(at least in Oz) has been very good" ? Oz ? From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 20 18:32:02 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:32:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> Message-ID: <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Oztralia - that big island just south of Papua New Guinea. -- Stuart On 20 Nov 2011 at 19:02, Mark Simms wrote: > I am about to subscribe to Office 365....for a document management and > display solution. > What does this refer to : "(at least in Oz) has been very good" ? > Oz ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 20 18:48:51 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 00:48:51 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCCE9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Thanks Stuart. Yeah, I forget how global this list is and how sometimes pithy little shortcuts get lost in translation. Sorry, my fault. Just for the record, Oz = Australia. Probably as a lot of folks call it "Oz_Trail_ya" or similar. Office 365 in Australia is support and delivered through Telstra - which is the major phone company in this country (We have others, but Telstra is the 9000 pound Gorilla of the industry). In the past their customer service has been less than stellar, but under their new CEO their focus on customer services has been greatly enhanced. In short, I had a few issues getting O365 set up correctly and they fixed them all swiftly and accurately. I was impressed. I guess I wanted to point out that your experience might be totally different as anyone based outside of Australia will have a different support setup. I would recommend O365 though, it has really made a big difference to a couple of small business I know and how they manage their documents, data and communications - already saved one of them a stack load of time and issues. Great stuff. There is value there for some folks at least. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011 11:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) Oztralia - that big island just south of Papua New Guinea. -- Stuart On 20 Nov 2011 at 19:02, Mark Simms wrote: > I am about to subscribe to Office 365....for a document management and > display solution. > What does this refer to : "(at least in Oz) has been very good" ? > Oz ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Sun Nov 20 18:53:24 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:53:24 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20111121005347.BNCI10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> And also known as the West Island of NZ :-) At 21/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >Oztralia - that big island just south of Papua New Guinea. > >-- >Stuart > >On 20 Nov 2011 at 19:02, Mark Simms wrote: > > > I am about to subscribe to Office 365....for a document management and > > display solution. > > What does this refer to : "(at least in Oz) has been very good" ? > > Oz ? From vbacreations at gmail.com Sun Nov 20 19:41:07 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:41:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: You asked "was..." it is not something I had thought to check at the time. I can check if it is still there but from the way you phrased the question Stu I get sense it would be gone now and therefore not able to be verified? If I can find BCM for O somewhere I might try installing it again to check the removal process out more thoroughly. Thanks for the idea on this. On Nov 20, 2011 4:35 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? > > If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named instance > and correctly > removed. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: > > > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. > > > > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller > > also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. > > > > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to > > have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. > > > > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server Express > > was a free Sql Server engine? > > > > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would > > Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking > > some other softwars off my machine? > > > > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep > > certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the option > to > > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that there > is > > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing > an > > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for > Outlook. > > > > -- > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Sun Nov 20 19:41:53 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:41:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: References: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: STUART NOT STU.... APOLOGIES! On Nov 20, 2011 8:41 PM, "William Benson" wrote: > You asked "was..." it is not something I had thought to check at the time. > I can check if it is still there but from the way you phrased the question > Stu I get sense it would be gone now and therefore not able to be verified? > If I can find BCM for O somewhere I might try installing it again to check > the removal process out more thoroughly. > > Thanks for the idea on this. > On Nov 20, 2011 4:35 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > wrote: > >> Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? >> >> If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named instance >> and correctly >> removed. >> >> >> -- >> Stuart >> >> On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: >> >> > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. >> > >> > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller >> > also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. >> > >> > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to >> > have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. >> > >> > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server >> Express >> > was a free Sql Server engine? >> > >> > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would >> > Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking >> > some other softwars off my machine? >> > >> > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep >> > certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the >> option to >> > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that >> there is >> > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing >> an >> > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for >> Outlook. >> > >> > -- >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 20 20:05:45 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:05:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4EC9B1F9.16375.3E155DFD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No worries, You can call me anything like want, except late for breakfast. :-) On 20 Nov 2011 at 20:41, William Benson wrote: > STUART NOT STU.... APOLOGIES! > On Nov 20, 2011 8:41 PM, "William Benson" wrote: > > > You asked "was..." it is not something I had thought to check at the time. > > I can check if it is still there but from the way you phrased the question > > Stu I get sense it would be gone now and therefore not able to be verified? > > If I can find BCM for O somewhere I might try installing it again to check > > the removal process out more thoroughly. > > > > Thanks for the idea on this. > > On Nov 20, 2011 4:35 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > > wrote: > > > >> Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? > >> > >> If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named instance > >> and correctly > >> removed. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Stuart > >> > >> On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: > >> > >> > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. > >> > > >> > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller > >> > also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. > >> > > >> > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to > >> > have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. > >> > > >> > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server > >> Express > >> > was a free Sql Server engine? > >> > > >> > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would > >> > Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking > >> > some other softwars off my machine? > >> > > >> > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep > >> > certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the > >> option to > >> > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that > >> there is > >> > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing > >> an > >> > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for > >> Outlook. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > -- > >> > AccessD mailing list > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 20 20:11:56 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 02:11:56 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: References: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCDFA@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hehehe... I bet he has been called far worse than that ;) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011 12:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook STUART NOT STU.... APOLOGIES! On Nov 20, 2011 8:41 PM, "William Benson" wrote: > You asked "was..." it is not something I had thought to check at the time. > I can check if it is still there but from the way you phrased the > question Stu I get sense it would be gone now and therefore not able to be verified? > If I can find BCM for O somewhere I might try installing it again to > check the removal process out more thoroughly. > > Thanks for the idea on this. > On Nov 20, 2011 4:35 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > wrote: > >> Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? >> >> If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named >> instance and correctly removed. >> >> >> -- >> Stuart >> >> On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: >> >> > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. >> > >> > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the >> > uninstaller also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. >> > >> > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it >> > looks to have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. >> > >> > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server >> Express >> > was a free Sql Server engine? >> > >> > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why >> > would Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I >> > was taking some other softwars off my machine? >> > >> > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to >> > keep certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had >> > the >> option to >> > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that >> there is >> > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was >> > removing >> an >> > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for >> Outlook. >> > >> > -- >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Nov 20 23:36:10 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:36:10 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Office_365_-_custom_development_using_Excel_C?= =?utf-8?q?alculation_Services_=28ECS=29_and_Word_Automation_Services_=28W?= =?utf-8?b?QVMp?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your note on your experience with Office 365. I'm also looking at it as a business opportunity which might work here in Russia "combined" with custom SharePoint and desktop solutions development and "powered" by Windows Phone 7.5+ solutions,... We will see... Thank you. -- Shamil 21 ?????? 2011, 02:18 ?? Darryl Collins : > Thanks Shamil > > I am starting to do a lot of stuff with Office 365 so a few pointers is always handy. > > FWIIW I find it to be an excellent solution for small to medium sized businesses who either don't have the time, expertise or cash to run their own sharepoint site and exchange server. The software works pretty well, there are a few bugs but they seem to fix them fairly quickly as well. Support (at least in Oz) has been very good. Any issues on setup I have had had been quickly (and accurately) resolved. > > Most of the issues I have currently having are to do with me and my lack of knowledge in some areas, rather than the platform itself. > > Cheers > Darryl > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Friday, 18 November 2011 8:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) > > Hi All -- > > Does anybody practices subj? > Do ECS and WAS available within Office 365 hosting plans? > > Here are some informational links: > > Office 365 > > List of Microsoft Office 365 Service Provider Partners http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/list-of-microsoft-office-365-service-provider-partners/ > > Minimum System Requirements for Office 365 http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/minimum-system-requirements-for-office-365/ > > Developing with SharePoint 2010 Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx > > Developing for SharePoint 2010 Excel Services Using Web Services or the Excel Services REST API http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff640648.aspx > > Open XML SDK + Office Services: Better Together http://blogs.msdn.com/b/brian_jones/archive/2010/02/26/open-xml-sdk-office-services-better-together.aspx > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 21 08:44:59 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:44:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? Message-ID: <005a01cca85c$25301ef0$6f905cd0$@net> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-microsoft-apps-that-will-cha nge-it/1156?tag=nl.e101 After reviewing this article, it appears any and all of my technical skills have little value going forward. Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 09:01:57 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:01:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? References: <005a01cca85c$25301ef0$6f905cd0$@net> Message-ID: > > Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, > Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. =====Yes it does -- just the demographics are changing. More options for big needs -- small needs, not so much. Less opportunity, yes, but valueless, no. Susan H. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 21 09:14:18 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:14:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?time_to_retire_=3F?= Message-ID: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone ranger' developers for 30 years. Rocky -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? From: "Mark Simms" Date: Mon, November 21, 2011 7:44 am To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-microsoft-apps-that-will-cha nge-it/1156?tag=nl.e101 After reviewing this article, it appears any and all of my technical skills have little value going forward. Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 10:17:43 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:17:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: IMO, this piece is targeted at IT people, not developers or database people. Fundamentally different set of skills, and as writers like to say, orthogonal. I'm not saying that some knowledge of this stuff is superfluous, but the IT people have their job and developers have their job, and only in small business is it required to wear both hats. Even in SMBs (Small to Medium-Sized Businesses, defined as total revenue more than $50M and less than $250M per year), these are separate career paths. Mom 'n' Pop outfits are way beneath this radar, IMO. How many M-n-P ops need SharePoint even, much less the other stuff. IMO almost all can get by with SQL Express (free), and have no need to upgrade. Speaking of which, I've been looking at Office365 and at first blush, this looks like a pretty cool option for me, as well as M'n'P ops. At about $6 or $7 a seat/month, it sounds just right, and eliminates all the pricey license fees. Just my IMHO, A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:14 AM, wrote: > Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those > areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out > there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone > ranger' developers for 30 years. > > Rocky > > > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 21 11:02:41 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:02:41 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <6E9F530D-751C-459B-8201-E0E1EBE36932@phulse.com> Aside from Windows 8 and maybe HyperV (I'm on the fence, I don't think virtualization is "the next big thing" anymore), I find it very hard to believe that any of these products are going to have a major impact on IT in the coming years. They all seem fairly niche and exciting to perhaps corporate CTOs. Other than that, what Arthur said. - Hans On 2011-11-21, at 8:17 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > IMO, this piece is targeted at IT people, not developers or database > people. Fundamentally different set of skills, and as writers like to > say, orthogonal. I'm not saying that some knowledge of this stuff is > superfluous, but the IT people have their job and developers have their > job, and only in small business is it required to wear both hats. Even in > SMBs (Small to Medium-Sized Businesses, defined as total revenue more than > $50M and less than $250M per year), these are separate career paths. Mom > 'n' Pop outfits are way beneath this radar, IMO. How many M-n-P ops need > SharePoint even, much less the other stuff. IMO almost all can get by with > SQL Express (free), and have no need to upgrade. Speaking of which, I've > been looking at Office365 and at first blush, this looks like a pretty cool > option for me, as well as M'n'P ops. At about $6 or $7 a seat/month, it > sounds just right, and eliminates all the pricey license fees. > > Just my IMHO, > A. > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:14 AM, wrote: > >> Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those >> areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out >> there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone >> ranger' developers for 30 years. >> >> Rocky >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 21 11:48:30 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:48:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <005a01cca85c$25301ef0$6f905cd0$@net> References: <005a01cca85c$25301ef0$6f905cd0$@net> Message-ID: <5376F6B6238B4AC39701176CE7D7705A@creativesystemdesigns.com> I must admit this is the first time in a while I have been impressed with what is coming out of the Microsoft labs for a few years. It all looks very promising. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 6:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-microsoft-apps-that-will-cha nge-it/1156?tag=nl.e101 After reviewing this article, it appears any and all of my technical skills have little value going forward. Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 12:01:20 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:01:20 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> Message-ID: All, Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). I have some dumb questions. Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and 32-bit for Deployment? Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 available? Does it fix the problem? It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? Thanks, Brad From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 21 12:06:13 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:06:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: There are many web opportunities out there. I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only going to be more demand. You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver your apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, on every device. I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the internet. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 7:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone ranger' developers for 30 years. Rocky -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? From: "Mark Simms" Date: Mon, November 21, 2011 7:44 am To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-microsoft-apps-that-will-cha nge-it/1156?tag=nl.e101 After reviewing this article, it appears any and all of my technical skills have little value going forward. Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Mon Nov 21 12:13:57 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:13:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> Message-ID: Brad, I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell you my solution. I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready to ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to an XP VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and ship from that machine to my clients. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO All, Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). I have some dumb questions. Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and 32-bit for Deployment? Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 available? Does it fix the problem? It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 12:46:20 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:46:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: There are at least two and perhaps many more possibilities lurking in your statement "I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only going to be more demand." a) Access -> ASP.NET b) Access -> Cloud c) something else Which one have you chosen, and why? Even posing the question makes me feel like an ancient, but nevertheless.... A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > There are many web opportunities out there. > > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only > going to be more demand. > > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver your > apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, on > every device. > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > > Jim > > From df.waters at comcast.net Mon Nov 21 12:53:07 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:53:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> Message-ID: <000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the ADO code to late-binding. Worked fine! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Brad, I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell you my solution. I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready to ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to an XP VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and ship from that machine to my clients. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO All, Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). I have some dumb questions. Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and 32-bit for Deployment? Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 available? Does it fix the problem? It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 14:18:46 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:18:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: <000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> <000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, and it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been edited, you never have to worry about it again. Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters wrote: > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the ADO > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Brad, > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell you > my > solution. > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready to > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to an XP > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and ship > from that machine to my clients. > > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Brad Marks" > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > All, > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > I have some dumb questions. > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > 32-bit > for Deployment? > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > available? Does it fix the problem? > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 14:58:33 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:58:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, and it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been edited, you never have to worry about it again. Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters wrote: > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the ADO > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Brad, > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell you > my > solution. > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready to > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to an XP > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and ship > from that machine to my clients. > > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Brad Marks" > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > All, > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > I have some dumb questions. > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > 32-bit > for Deployment? > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > available? Does it fix the problem? > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From dbdoug at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 15:07:37 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:07:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> <000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 15:44:22 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:44:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 21 15:57:41 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:57:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <6E9F530D-751C-459B-8201-E0E1EBE36932@phulse.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net>, , <6E9F530D-751C-459B-8201-E0E1EBE36932@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4ECAC955.10416.42589E8C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I'm with Hans and Arthur. They may change the infrastructure that developers work in, but they won't fundamentally change the need for the products of those developers or the skills those developers need. On 21 Nov 2011 at 9:02, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > > Aside from Windows 8 and maybe HyperV (I'm on the fence, I don't think > virtualization is "the next big thing" anymore), I find it very hard > to believe that any of these products are going to have a major > impact on IT in the coming years. They all seem fairly niche > and exciting to perhaps corporate CTOs. > > Other than that, what Arthur said. > > - Hans > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 21 16:01:29 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:01:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net>, Message-ID: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will be for quite a few years to come. At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before my Access skills are ready for retirement. -- Stuart On 21 Nov 2011 at 10:06, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 21 16:05:31 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:05:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net>, , Message-ID: <4ECACB2B.7003.425FCC9E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On a windows server it's: Access -> mySQL + PHP + PowerBasic CGIs Still waiting for the *nix PB compiler so that I can go the same way on all web servers. -- Stuart On 21 Nov 2011 at 13:46, Arthur Fuller wrote: > There are at least two and perhaps many more possibilities lurking in your > statement "I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and > there is only going to be more demand." > > a) Access -> ASP.NET > b) Access -> Cloud > c) something else > > Which one have you chosen, and why? Even posing the question makes me feel > like an ancient, but nevertheless.... > A. > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > There are many web opportunities out there. > > > > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only > > going to be more demand. > > > > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver your > > apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, on > > every device. > > > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > > internet. > > > > Jim > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 16:08:45 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:08:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I agree with you, Stuart, but I am also diving into C# 2010 in a serious way. There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example, but that's due to an old and perhaps obsolete bias that "Everything the db can do, the db should do." I don't like putting db logic in the front end; it sticks in this old craw; but maybe I will learn that this old adage is nearly as obsolete as I am :) A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will > be for quite a few > years to come. > > At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before > my Access skills are > ready for retirement. > > -- > Stuart > > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 16:15:06 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:15:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO - Got it working References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Doug (and others), I did some more experimenting and finally got Late Binding to work by changing line 500 to this. 500 rs.ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection Thanks again for the help. Brad ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 16:21:20 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:21:20 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 16:31:25 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:31:25 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Arthur, Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 3:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? IMO, this piece is targeted at IT people, not developers or database people. Fundamentally different set of skills, and as writers like to say, orthogonal. I'm not saying that some knowledge of this stuff is superfluous, but the IT people have their job and developers have their job, and only in small business is it required to wear both hats. Even in SMBs (Small to Medium-Sized Businesses, defined as total revenue more than $50M and less than $250M per year), these are separate career paths. Mom 'n' Pop outfits are way beneath this radar, IMO. How many M-n-P ops need SharePoint even, much less the other stuff. IMO almost all can get by with SQL Express (free), and have no need to upgrade. Speaking of which, I've been looking at Office365 and at first blush, this looks like a pretty cool option for me, as well as M'n'P ops. At about $6 or $7 a seat/month, it sounds just right, and eliminates all the pricey license fees. Just my IMHO, A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:14 AM, wrote: > Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those > areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out > there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone > ranger' developers for 30 years. > > Rocky > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 16:32:29 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:32:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Darryl, Thanks for the info and the links. I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to figure this out. We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. Sincerely, Brad PS. This problem only affects ADO, right? not DAO? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 16:33:04 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:33:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD33F@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Oh and the fix is currently scheduled for early 2012 at this stage.... So nearly a year after the problem first appeared.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 9:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 16:37:54 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:37:54 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD384@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yep, it is ADO and for all platforms (not just VBA). They have released some fixes already for other platforms, but not VBA yet. In short any code with ADO that is compiled on a W7 SP1 machine will fail if it is run on any other OS (except another W7 SP1 machine). If you get your users to recompile the code on their (non SP1) machine it will work again fine, but clearly that is not a practical solution for most users. The threads are worth a read, they are not so long and have good info on both the background of the problem, MS's surprise and dithering and possible solutions. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Darryl, Thanks for the info and the links. I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to figure this out. We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. Sincerely, Brad PS. This problem only affects ADO, right? not DAO? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 21 17:10:14 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:10:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <52E08440BAFC45D3914832F56D492301@creativesystemdesigns.com> My best current option and this is at the moment is to use ASP.Net to build a HTML interface, Adobe to build the graphics and a good server for a BE. ASP.Net for building the presentation and managing data and all the data processing at the BE. I do not like the WebPages to do anything more than manage the interface but they should manage it all. The sever BE should manage all the data and nothing else. Servers are the best options for now and in the future the Cloud...but IMHO the Cloud is not ready for primetime but that could all change in a couple of years. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? There are at least two and perhaps many more possibilities lurking in your statement "I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only going to be more demand." a) Access -> ASP.NET b) Access -> Cloud c) something else Which one have you chosen, and why? Even posing the question makes me feel like an ancient, but nevertheless.... A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > There are many web opportunities out there. > > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only > going to be more demand. > > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver your > apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, on > every device. > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > > Jim > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 21 17:22:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:22:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: You have the advantage of your environment. My environment is going internet and my poor Access skills are becoming less required every day. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will be for quite a few years to come. At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before my Access skills are ready for retirement. -- Stuart On 21 Nov 2011 at 10:06, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 17:50:43 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:50:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Since you've got experience, and since I haven't investigated all the options, am I correct in assuming that an O365 license, regardless of number of people, involves the latest (Office, SharePoint, SQL) in a participatory mechanism of some sort (e.g. per seat or something)? As proprietor of a mostly-retired company, with only me as employee, this is very appealing, and I think this could work very inexpensively for clients having say < 10 employees. Skip all the on-site licensing, pay a per-seat fee per month, lock and load. Is this precis correct? Arthur On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins < darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote: > Arthur, > > Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. > > Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an > Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version > controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync > 2010 has been a game changer for them. > > Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' > to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and > money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage > and back up). > > They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE > does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. > Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more > licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I > am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits > on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the > stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! > > Cheers > Darryl. > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 21 18:43:15 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:43:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?time_to_retire_=3F?= Message-ID: <20111121174315.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.c614d4a3a8.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> so in a pinch there's still room for one more good access developer in PNG? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? From: "Stuart McLachlan" Date: Mon, November 21, 2011 3:01 pm To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will be for quite a few years to come. At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before my Access skills are ready for retirement. -- Stuart On 21 Nov 2011 at 10:06, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 19:08:39 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 01:08:39 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD460@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yep, that is pretty much how it works. You can download a trial version which free and is good for 30 days - the trial version includes 10 licenses, after 30 days you get an email asking if you want to continue the service. If you do then you only pay for as many licenses as you want / need. You can add more or less over time and they just adjust your monthly bill. There was a bit of stuffing around getting the site setup and operational initially (at least for Australia). You need to have a registered business with ABN (sort of a business ID number and an existing website) Your requirements may differ as you are in a different part of the world. I needed to play around with DNS settings on with our existing ISP setup page - and also do some manual configs to Lync and the outlook desktop client to make it work. Most of this stuff I found out via Google and the online help forums. Once you know where to look it is all fairly painless - of course I say this now with 20/20 hindsight ;) That said, you don't need to use an outlook desktop client if you don't want, you can do it all in the browser if you want. The exchange side of things is seriously good. Having the ability to instantly update all the members of your team and share calendars painlessly is a huge jump for a lot of these folks. It is ideal for small working teams of people. One business I set this up for is 7 people and they often work remotely. Having the ability to share calendars, use the 'presence' detection and Lync to meet up and share tools and desktops has been really useful for them. Much better than trying to get one of them to assist the other one over the phone alone. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 10:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? Since you've got experience, and since I haven't investigated all the options, am I correct in assuming that an O365 license, regardless of number of people, involves the latest (Office, SharePoint, SQL) in a participatory mechanism of some sort (e.g. per seat or something)? As proprietor of a mostly-retired company, with only me as employee, this is very appealing, and I think this could work very inexpensively for clients having say < 10 employees. Skip all the on-site licensing, pay a per-seat fee per month, lock and load. Is this precis correct? Arthur On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins < darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote: > Arthur, > > Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. > > Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an > Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version > controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like > Lync > 2010 has been a game changer for them. > > Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' > to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of > time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus > secure docs storage and back up). > > They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower > (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. > Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more > licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I > am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are > limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but > for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! > > Cheers > Darryl. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 21 20:13:01 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:13:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> True, but as we had mentioned in the past, where is that "silver bullet" to Web Development ? Still is and always has been a messy, sausage-making-like ordeal to create web apps. > There are many web opportunities out there. > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is > only > going to be more demand. > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver > your > apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, > on > every device. > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. From john at winhaven.net Mon Nov 21 20:44:50 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:44:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> Message-ID: <035501cca8c0$b48dc980$1da95c80$@winhaven.net> LOL - great description of it! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 8:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? True, but as we had mentioned in the past, where is that "silver bullet" to Web Development ? Still is and always has been a messy, sausage-making-like ordeal to create web apps. > There are many web opportunities out there. > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is > only going to be more demand. > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver > your apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of > companies, on every device. > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 21 21:06:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:06:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). LOL. that's the understatement of the year. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/21/2011 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Arthur, > > Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. > > Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. > > Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). > > They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! > > Cheers > Darryl. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 21:32:33 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 03:32:33 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD5C3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Heh, for sure. But given that a lot of small businesses use Excel sheets as their principal database for everything - moving that data into to sharepoint lists usually is fairly simple and brings a lot more data integrity than keeping 5 different versions of Excel as their 'master' database, or I have seen many times "Budget_Final_Final_FinalV2 (Dave's version).xls" - ... Oh the horror, the horror.... Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 2:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). LOL. that's the understatement of the year. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/21/2011 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Arthur, > > Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. > > Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. > > Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). > > They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! > > Cheers > Darryl. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 21 21:35:15 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:35:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> Message-ID: <36945057-B595-495B-8FB8-65EAA25991B7@phulse.com> You should consider HTML5. It's been slow coming but it's starting to pick up some real steam now. Even Microsoft is going head on with HTML5. Just attended a Microsoft talk on responsive web design. It really opened my eyes in terms of that we are reaching a tipping point where hype meets reality (and business). Also, for all you microsofties interested in this, check out Microsofts tool Webmatrix. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-21, at 6:13 PM, "Mark Simms" wrote: > True, but as we had mentioned in the past, where is that "silver bullet" to > Web Development ? > Still is and always has been a messy, sausage-making-like ordeal to create > web apps. > >> There are many web opportunities out there. >> I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is >> only >> going to be more demand. >> You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver >> your >> apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, >> on >> every device. >> I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the >> internet. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 21 22:11:50 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:11:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <36945057-B595-495B-8FB8-65EAA25991B7@phulse.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> <36945057-B595-495B-8FB8-65EAA25991B7@phulse.com> Message-ID: <000001cca8cc$dc73e7c0$955bb740$@net> Webmatrix and Expression Web were always on my radar. I'll bet BOTH are gonna change dramatically now with HTML-5. There may be hope yet !!! RAD for the web....Bring it on. > You should consider HTML5. It's been slow coming but it's starting to > pick up some real steam now. Even Microsoft is going head on with > HTML5. Just attended a Microsoft talk on responsive web design. It > really opened my eyes in terms of that we are reaching a tipping point > where hype meets reality (and business). > > Also, for all you microsofties interested in this, check out Microsofts > tool Webmatrix. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 21 22:16:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:16:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ECB2237.4070208@colbyconsulting.com> >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse That was the understatement of the year. No idea about the brilliance part. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/21/2011 10:06 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff > small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > LOL. that's the understatement of the year. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/21/2011 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: >> Arthur, >> >> Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. >> >> Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook >> and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication >> tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. >> >> Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to >> understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier >> comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). >> >> They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better >> though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, >> all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I >> am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists >> as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). >> >> And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 21 22:17:42 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:17:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD5C3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD5C3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ECB2266.4060407@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, I understand completely. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/21/2011 10:32 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Heh, for sure. But given that a lot of small businesses use Excel sheets as their principal database for everything - moving that data into to sharepoint lists usually is fairly simple and brings a lot more data integrity than keeping 5 different versions of Excel as their 'master' database, or I have seen many times "Budget_Final_Final_FinalV2 (Dave's version).xls" - ... Oh the horror, the horror.... > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 2:06 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? > > >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > LOL. that's the understatement of the year. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/21/2011 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: >> Arthur, >> >> Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. >> >> Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. >> >> Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). >> >> They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). >> >> And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 22 02:55:17 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:55:17 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?time_to_retire_=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Hi Arthur -- > There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example... Do you mean LINQ in general or just LINQ for SQL or ADO.NET EF LINQ? LINQ in general - I mean using it in your C#/VB.NET coding - is a very powerful development tool/programming language concept. LINQ is a "green light" for full scale functional programming (FP) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_programming) within general purpose programming language as C#/VB.NET are. Have a look: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericwhite/archive/2006/10/04/fp-tutorial.aspx LINQ is very close to "ordinary SQL" - in fact they both have common roots in Propositional Calculus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_calculus) , Set Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory), Relational Algebra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_algebra) etc. One can treat LINQ as OOSQL ("first generation") come true. Using LINQ may change your (and mine) "old habits" of practicing mainly "data centric" application development - read more about "Model First" approach here: http://www.devart.com/entitydeveloper/model-first.html http://ianhammondcooper.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/being-ignorant-with-linq-to-sql/ All in all "LINQ (to SQL)" and FP seems to be very good tools for the one considering to retire but still keeping doing custom development as the more one gets familiar with that tools the more short, the more streamlined and effective their programming would become, the least support costs would be "tied" to that coding - and so one can keep competitive for a long time :) "Ordinary" programming has usually a lot of routine (plumbing) work and LINQ and FP allow to minimize that work by making your coding working on higher levels of abstraction and "getting things done" quicker... Parallel LINQ (PLINQ) and FP are also the base for "automagic scaling" of your programming solutions as pure functional coding can be automatically scheduled to be executed in parallel on many processor cores or - in the future(?) even - computer systems or all over "computing clouds" and (P)LINQ expressions can be also interpreted in parallel, and that "parallelization" will be done by .NET Dynamic Language Runtime (DLR) automatically... Recap: LINQ and FP alone would let to keep one's brain cells active solving programming tasks "cool way", or I can even say "lazy but cool way" meaning "lazy evaluation" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy_evaluation) - the core of LINQ expressions evaluation strategy implemented in .NET DLR... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Consider also using OpenXML (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML) and Open XML SDK 2.0 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb448854.aspx, http://openxmldeveloper.org/) as a good substitute for many tasks usually done using MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint Automation, as well as Excel Calculation Services http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepoint-server-help/introduction-to-excel-services-and-excel-web-access-HA010105476.aspx and Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx which should be available for Office 365 developers... 22 ?????? 2011, 02:10 ?? Arthur Fuller : > I agree with you, Stuart, but I am also diving into C# 2010 in a serious > way. There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example, but that's due to an > old and perhaps obsolete bias that "Everything the db can do, the db should > do." I don't like putting db logic in the front end; it sticks in this old > craw; but maybe I will learn that this old adage is nearly as obsolete as I > am :) > > A. > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will > > be for quite a few > > years to come. > > > > At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before > > my Access skills are > > ready for retirement. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Tue Nov 22 07:36:04 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:36:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email1 8.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <4ECBA544.7020800@torchlake.com> Shamil, Thank you for all this good information. I'm not quite ready to dig into it all, but I will be one of these days, and I'm glad to have these resources. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/22/2011 3:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Arthur -- > >> There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example... > Do you mean LINQ in general or just LINQ for SQL or ADO.NET EF LINQ? > > LINQ in general - I mean using it in your C#/VB.NET coding - is a very powerful development tool/programming language concept. > LINQ is a "green light" for full scale functional programming (FP) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_programming) within general purpose programming language as C#/VB.NET are. > Have a look: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericwhite/archive/2006/10/04/fp-tutorial.aspx > > LINQ is very close to "ordinary SQL" - in fact they both have common roots in Propositional Calculus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_calculus) , Set Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory), Relational Algebra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_algebra) etc. One can treat LINQ as OOSQL ("first generation") come true. > > Using LINQ may change your (and mine) "old habits" of practicing mainly "data centric" application development - read more about "Model First" approach here: > > http://www.devart.com/entitydeveloper/model-first.html > > http://ianhammondcooper.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/being-ignorant-with-linq-to-sql/ > > All in all "LINQ (to SQL)" and FP seems to be very good tools for the one considering to retire but still keeping doing custom development as the more one gets familiar with that tools the more short, the more streamlined and effective their programming would become, the least support costs would be "tied" to that coding - and so one can keep competitive for a long time :) > > "Ordinary" programming has usually a lot of routine (plumbing) work and LINQ and FP allow to minimize that work by making your coding working on higher levels of abstraction and "getting things done" quicker... > > Parallel LINQ (PLINQ) and FP are also the base for "automagic scaling" of your programming solutions as pure functional coding can be automatically scheduled to be executed in parallel on many processor cores or - in the future(?) even - computer systems or all over "computing clouds" and (P)LINQ expressions can be also interpreted in parallel, and that "parallelization" will be done by .NET Dynamic Language Runtime (DLR) automatically... > > Recap: LINQ and FP alone would let to keep one's brain cells active solving programming tasks "cool way", or I can even say "lazy but cool way" meaning "lazy evaluation" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy_evaluation) - the core of LINQ expressions evaluation strategy implemented in .NET DLR... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > P.S. Consider also using OpenXML (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML) and Open XML SDK 2.0 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb448854.aspx, http://openxmldeveloper.org/) as a good substitute for many tasks usually done using MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint Automation, as well as > > Excel Calculation Services > http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepoint-server-help/introduction-to-excel-services-and-excel-web-access-HA010105476.aspx > > and > > Word Automation Services > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx > > which should be available for Office 365 developers... > > 22 ?????? 2011, 02:10 ?? Arthur Fuller: >> I agree with you, Stuart, but I am also diving into C# 2010 in a serious >> way. There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example, but that's due to an >> old and perhaps obsolete bias that "Everything the db can do, the db should >> do." I don't like putting db logic in the front end; it sticks in this old >> craw; but maybe I will learn that this old adage is nearly as obsolete as I >> am :) >> >> A. >> >> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Stuart McLachlanwrote: >> >>> Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will >>> be for quite a few >>> years to come. >>> >>> At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before >>> my Access skills are >>> ready for retirement. >>> >>> -- >>> Stuart >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From edzedz at comcast.net Tue Nov 22 09:33:38 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:33:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: W7 SP1 breaking ADO Message-ID: <005a01cca92c$1bd4fc60$5bdea8c0@edz1> There are also problems with DAO and large query statements. Along with the AppHangB1 error have been getting AppCrash errors for VBA programming that works fine on W2K and XP OS systems. The MSFT social media seems unable to find a solution. ================================================================ Description: A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows. Problem signature: Problem Event Name: AppHangB1 Application Name: MSACCESS.EXE Application Version: 11.0.8166.0 Application Timestamp: 46437912 Hang Signature: 8308 Hang Type: 0 OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48 Locale ID: 1033 Additional Hang Signature 1: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 2: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 3: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Additional Hang Signature 4: 8308 Additional Hang Signature 5: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 6: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 7: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Read our privacy statement online: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=104288&clcid=0x0409 If the online privacy statement is not available, please read our privacy statement offline: C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt ================================================================ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Yep, it is ADO and for all platforms (not just VBA). They have released some fixes already for other platforms, but not VBA yet. In short any code with ADO that is compiled on a W7 SP1 machine will fail if it is run on any other OS (except another W7 SP1 machine). If you get your users to recompile the code on their (non SP1) machine it will work again fine, but clearly that is not a practical solution for most users. The threads are worth a read, they are not so long and have good info on both the background of the problem, MS's surprise and dithering and possible solutions. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Darryl, Thanks for the info and the links. I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to figure this out. We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. Sincerely, Brad PS. This problem only affects ADO, right? not DAO? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 09:38:56 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:38:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: <005a01cca92c$1bd4fc60$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <005a01cca92c$1bd4fc60$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: It seems that the only fix is to remove SP1. A. On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > There are also problems with DAO and large query statements. > > Along with the AppHangB1 error have been getting AppCrash errors > for VBA programming that works fine on W2K and XP OS systems. > I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to > figure this out. > > We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the > short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. > > From edzedz at comcast.net Tue Nov 22 10:23:27 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:23:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DAO breaking as well in W7 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001cca933$1116b9b0$5bdea8c0@edz1> There are also problems with DAO and large query statements. Along with the AppHangB1 error have been getting AppCrash errors for VBA programming that works fine on W2K and XP OS systems. The MSFT social media seems unable to find a solution. ================================================================ Description: A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows. Problem signature: Problem Event Name: AppHangB1 Application Name: MSACCESS.EXE Application Version: 11.0.8166.0 Application Timestamp: 46437912 Hang Signature: 8308 Hang Type: 0 OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48 Locale ID: 1033 Additional Hang Signature 1: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 2: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 3: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Additional Hang Signature 4: 8308 Additional Hang Signature 5: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 6: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 7: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Read our privacy statement online: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=104288&clcid=0x0409 If the online privacy statement is not available, please read our privacy statement offline: C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt ================================================================ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Darryl, Thanks for the info and the links. I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to figure this out. We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. Sincerely, Brad PS. This problem only affects ADO, right? not DAO? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Tue Nov 22 10:50:56 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:50:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4ECBD2F0.8000404@torchlake.com> Me too! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/18/2011 6:43 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I know the feeling so well: > > http://xkcd.com/979/ > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Nov 22 10:51:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:51:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <76C0FC092A534DE38B2FE72A9B7753DB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: This collection of links is very interesting but I will have to put it aside for now, as it would be easy to get lost for days, in the subject. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? Hi Arthur -- > There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example... Do you mean LINQ in general or just LINQ for SQL or ADO.NET EF LINQ? LINQ in general - I mean using it in your C#/VB.NET coding - is a very powerful development tool/programming language concept. LINQ is a "green light" for full scale functional programming (FP) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_programming) within general purpose programming language as C#/VB.NET are. Have a look: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericwhite/archive/2006/10/04/fp-tutorial.aspx LINQ is very close to "ordinary SQL" - in fact they both have common roots in Propositional Calculus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_calculus) , Set Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory), Relational Algebra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_algebra) etc. One can treat LINQ as OOSQL ("first generation") come true. Using LINQ may change your (and mine) "old habits" of practicing mainly "data centric" application development - read more about "Model First" approach here: http://www.devart.com/entitydeveloper/model-first.html http://ianhammondcooper.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/being-ignorant-with-linq-to -sql/ All in all "LINQ (to SQL)" and FP seems to be very good tools for the one considering to retire but still keeping doing custom development as the more one gets familiar with that tools the more short, the more streamlined and effective their programming would become, the least support costs would be "tied" to that coding - and so one can keep competitive for a long time :) "Ordinary" programming has usually a lot of routine (plumbing) work and LINQ and FP allow to minimize that work by making your coding working on higher levels of abstraction and "getting things done" quicker... Parallel LINQ (PLINQ) and FP are also the base for "automagic scaling" of your programming solutions as pure functional coding can be automatically scheduled to be executed in parallel on many processor cores or - in the future(?) even - computer systems or all over "computing clouds" and (P)LINQ expressions can be also interpreted in parallel, and that "parallelization" will be done by .NET Dynamic Language Runtime (DLR) automatically... Recap: LINQ and FP alone would let to keep one's brain cells active solving programming tasks "cool way", or I can even say "lazy but cool way" meaning "lazy evaluation" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy_evaluation) - the core of LINQ expressions evaluation strategy implemented in .NET DLR... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Consider also using OpenXML (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML) and Open XML SDK 2.0 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb448854.aspx, http://openxmldeveloper.org/) as a good substitute for many tasks usually done using MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint Automation, as well as Excel Calculation Services http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepoint-server-help/introduction-to-exc el-services-and-excel-web-access-HA010105476.aspx and Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx which should be available for Office 365 developers... 22 ?????? 2011, 02:10 ?? Arthur Fuller : > I agree with you, Stuart, but I am also diving into C# 2010 in a serious > way. There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example, but that's due to an > old and perhaps obsolete bias that "Everything the db can do, the db should > do." I don't like putting db logic in the front end; it sticks in this old > craw; but maybe I will learn that this old adage is nearly as obsolete as I > am :) > > A. > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will > > be for quite a few > > years to come. > > > > At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before > > my Access skills are > > ready for retirement. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeff.developer at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 10:57:33 2011 From: jeff.developer at gmail.com (Jeff B) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:57:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives Message-ID: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com> Hello Listers! Quick question, I went to look through the archives to see if there was anything about working with Access and QuickBooks, but it seems that all of our archives are unavailable? Do we have any archives available right now? Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Nov 22 12:03:41 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:03:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives In-Reply-To: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com> References: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <023601cca941$112be700$3383b500$@winhaven.net> Because of some technical issues, we're re-doing the archives right now. Its taking a while. Please be patient. Meanwhile maybe you could ask the list your particular questions. I know that the Quickbooks API has changed considerably over the last few years. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff B Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:58 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Archives Hello Listers! Quick question, I went to look through the archives to see if there was anything about working with Access and QuickBooks, but it seems that all of our archives are unavailable? Do we have any archives available right now? Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeff.developer at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 12:38:52 2011 From: jeff.developer at gmail.com (Jeff B) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:38:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives In-Reply-To: <023601cca941$112be700$3383b500$@winhaven.net> References: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com> <023601cca941$112be700$3383b500$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <006701cca945$fbf9c730$f3ed5590$@gmail.com> Thanks John. I thought we had had a discussion about QuickBooks, that?s why I was looking for the archives. I think I found my solution! It seems that QuickBooks now offers a read only ODBC driver as part of its product. If you look a little farther, they share a link for QODBC read/write driver. The read/write is available through FLEXquarters.com for a nominal fee. Seeing as I have been using ODBC with Access and SQL Server, it seems like the natural way to go. So, I have found my solution! Thanks again! Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Archives Because of some technical issues, we're re-doing the archives right now. Its taking a while. Please be patient. Meanwhile maybe you could ask the list your particular questions. I know that the Quickbooks API has changed considerably over the last few years. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff B Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:58 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Archives Hello Listers! Quick question, I went to look through the archives to see if there was anything about working with Access and QuickBooks, but it seems that all of our archives are unavailable? Do we have any archives available right now? Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 22 14:35:58 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:35:58 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties Message-ID: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to their server using the Data Link Properties: If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I do not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these and the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not one of these. My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. In the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. Any suggestions? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 14:57:24 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:57:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login behaves the same there? Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the database in question? It does sound like permissions to me. D On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson wrote: > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to > their server using the Data Link Properties: > > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in the > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the database I > want. > > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I do > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these and > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not one > of these. > > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. In > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. > > Any suggestions? > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 22 15:39:54 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:39:54 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login >behaves the same there? Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this what you mean? >Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the >database in question? I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't seem to have helped. >It does sound like permissions to me. > >D > >On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to > > their server using the Data Link Properties: > > > > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in the > > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the database I > > want. > > > > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the > > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I do > > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these and > > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not one > > of these. > > > > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I > > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role > > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. In > > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have > > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database > > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 22 16:32:13 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:32:13 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] FW: W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <005a01cca92c$1bd4fc60$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DDD32@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Pretty much at this stage for anyone using VBA, that is it and that is what I did. Of course for some folks that is not an option. Two examples I can think of are 1: folks on corporate networks who get the OS updates pushed out to them, and folks who recently purchased W7 that has SP1 already built in. I got lucky, the rollback to W7 Release version worked and all was good again. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, 23 November 2011 2:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: W7 SP1 breaking ADO It seems that the only fix is to remove SP1. A. On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > There are also problems with DAO and large query statements. > > Along with the AppHangB1 error have been getting AppCrash errors for > VBA programming that works fine on W2K and XP OS systems. > I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to > figure this out. > > We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the > short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 16:43:40 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:43:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? >From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I can click on the Office button. >From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server and then any database on that chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing everything logged in as the troubled user? David On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson wrote: > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login >> behaves the same there? >> > > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this > what you mean? > > > > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the >> database in question? >> > > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't > seem to have helped. > > > It does sound like permissions to me. >> >> D >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson > >wrote: >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: >> > >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in >> the >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the >> database I >> > want. >> > >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I >> do >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these >> and >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not >> one >> > of these. >> > >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. >> In >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. >> > >> > Any suggestions? >> > >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > David Emerson >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 22 18:30:09 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:30:09 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I can >click on the Office button. > From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server and >then any database on that >chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing >everything logged in as the troubled user? Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. >David > > >On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login > >> behaves the same there? > >> > > > > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view > > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this > > what you mean? > > > > > > > > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the > >> database in question? > >> > > > > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't > > seem to have helped. > > > > > > It does sound like permissions to me. > >> > >> D > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson >> >wrote: > >> > >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to > >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > >> > > >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in > >> the > >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the > >> database I > >> > want. > >> > > >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the > >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I > >> do > >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these > >> and > >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not > >> one > >> > of these. > >> > > >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I > >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role > >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. > >> In > >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have > >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database > >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. > >> > > >> > Any suggestions? > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > > >> > David Emerson > >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> > Wellington, New Zealand From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 22 21:05:24 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:05:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hyper-V VM oddness Message-ID: <4ECC62F4.7050201@colbyconsulting.com> I decided to try moving my VMs to Azul server, my "big" server. I figured with 16 cores and 64 gigs it could handle the load. The sole purpose of one of the VMs is to host a third party application. When this app is running the VM says that the single core I assign to it is pegged, 100% utilization. However none of the host machine cores shows any significant usage, and the total server usage bounces between 0 and 1%. So I'm wondering what the heck is going on? The application on the dedicated VM server was processing about 8-9 million records per hour on a 3.5 GHz AMD quad core, and on that host machine one of the cores would appear to be maxed out and the server would say 25% usage. On the mongo server the CPUs are 2 GHz 8 core and no core says it is busy and I'm only getting about 4 million records / hour. I expected one core to max and the total to say 1/16th total usage. Any ideas why this VM says it is using 100% of its virtual CPU but the host server says it is not busy at all? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 23 10:35:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:35:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL Message-ID: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> I run three VMs pretty much 24/7 here at my home office, one which I call vmDev which is my development machine, another is my Accuzip third party software vm and one final machine runs SQL Server Express for Access clients coming in over the internet. I had a dedicated server for VMs which I actually just upgraded to a new motherboard, DDR3 ram etc in preparation for the new AM3+ bulldozer processor. Given the weak performance of the new processor I am hanging out waiting for the next rev / price drops before taking that plunge. what I did do however is move all three of those VMs off onto my 16 core SQL Server machine. The only VM which truly needs much horsepower is the Accuzip VM and my performance dropped by half when I did the move. Whereas I was getting about 8-9 million records / hour on the dedicated VM Server, on Azul SQL Server machine I am lucky to get 4.5 million per hour. The difference is mostly just the core speed. The Magney-Cours server chips that I could afford run at 2.0 ghz and have ddr3 1300 memory (registered and ECC), whereas the new motherboard has DDR 1600 memory and a quad core Phenom lightly overclocked to 3.3 ghz. The additional clock speed and memory speed apparently makes for significant additional horsepower. Anyway, I have decided to take the speed hit on the Accuzip VM in order to clean off what was my dedicated VM server and use that for a MySQL machine. As servers go this machine is somewhat wimpy with 4 cores and 16 gigs of memory but for learning MySQL it should suffice. There has been a bit of interest expressed in MySQL, with some list members already using it and others trying to learn it. I count myself in the trying to learn it crowd. My intention is to go with MariaDB. Since I have Hyper-V running on this machine I am thinking about running mariaDB itself on a VM which would allow me to move the VM should I decide to keep it. I have to say I am not having a lot of luck getting a Linux distro running on a Hyper-V VM, but if I can make that happen that would be my preference. If anyone out there has experience getting a linux distro running in a Hyper-V VM running MariaDB let me know. I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 11:28:19 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:28:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? Still sounds like privileges to me. On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson wrote: > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? >> > > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > > > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I can >> click on the Office button. >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server and >> then any database on that >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing >> everything logged in as the troubled user? >> > > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > > > David >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson >> wrote: >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login >> >> behaves the same there? >> >> >> > >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this >> > what you mean? >> > >> > >> > >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the >> >> database in question? >> >> >> > >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't >> > seem to have helped. >> > >> > >> > It does sound like permissions to me. >> >> >> >> D >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson > >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link >> to >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: >> >> > >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in >> >> the >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the >> >> database I >> >> > want. >> >> > >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. >> I >> >> do >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to >> these >> >> and >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is >> not >> >> one >> >> > of these. >> >> > >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. >> >> In >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. >> >> > >> >> > Any suggestions? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Regards >> >> > >> >> > David Emerson >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Nov 23 14:37:48 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:37:48 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? > >Still sounds like privileges to me. > > > >On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? > >> > > > > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > > > > > > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I can > >> click on the Office button. > >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server and > >> then any database on that > >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing > >> everything logged in as the troubled user? > >> > > > > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > > > > > > David > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson > >> wrote: > >> > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> > > >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login > >> >> behaves the same there? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view > >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this > >> > what you mean? > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the > >> >> database in question? > >> >> > >> > > >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't > >> > seem to have helped. > >> > > >> > > >> > It does sound like permissions to me. > >> >> > >> >> D > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson >> >> >wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link > >> to > >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > >> >> > > >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in > >> >> the > >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the > >> >> database I > >> >> > want. > >> >> > > >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the > >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. > >> I > >> >> do > >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to > >> these > >> >> and > >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is > >> not > >> >> one > >> >> > of these. > >> >> > > >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I > >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role > >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. > >> >> In > >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have > >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database > >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. > >> >> > > >> >> > Any suggestions? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Regards > >> >> > > >> >> > David Emerson > >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 14:59:11 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:59:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: >From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer I can choose Server Type : Database Engine ServerName: YourServerName Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to Windows Authentication) Login: limitedUser password: xxxxx It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know he doesn't have rights to, it will give me an error. If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson wrote: > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. > > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? >> >> Still sounds like privileges to me. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson >> wrote: >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? >> >> >> > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. >> > >> > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I >> can >> >> click on the Office button. >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server >> and >> >> then any database on that >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? >> >> >> > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. >> > >> > >> > David >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your >> login >> >> >> behaves the same there? >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can >> view >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is >> this >> >> > what you mean? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the >> >> >> database in question? >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. >> Doesn't >> >> > seem to have helped. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. >> >> >> >> >> >> D >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson < >> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz >> >> >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then >> link >> >> to >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the >> databases in >> >> >> the >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the >> >> >> database I >> >> >> > want. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select >> the >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and >> tempdb. >> >> I >> >> >> do >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to >> >> these >> >> >> and >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is >> >> not >> >> >> one >> >> >> > of these. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL >> Server. I >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database >> role >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User >> Mapping. >> >> >> In >> >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I >> have >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the >> database >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" >> dropdown. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Regards >> >> >> > >> >> >> > David Emerson >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com> databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 23 15:29:07 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 07:29:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, Message-ID: <4ECD65A3.3640.4C8B3A43@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> IN SSMS 2005, while logged in as an administrator: Go to ServerName - Security - Logins and select the login in question. Right Click and select Properties Under "Select a Page", select User Mapping Make sure the databases that you want the Login to be able to access are ticked in the top right hand panel and the correct roles are set in the bottom panel. -- Stuart On 23 Nov 2011 at 12:59, David McAfee wrote: > From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer > > I can choose > Server Type : Database Engine > ServerName: YourServerName > Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to > Windows Authentication) > Login: limitedUser > password: xxxxx > > It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know he doesn't > have rights to, it will give me an error. > > If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. > > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows > > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as > > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. > > > > > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? > >> > >> Still sounds like privileges to me. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson > >> wrote: > >> > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> > > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > >> > > >> > > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I > >> can > >> >> click on the Office button. > >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server > >> and > >> >> then any database on that > >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing > >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > >> > > >> > > >> > David > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your > >> login > >> >> >> behaves the same there? > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can > >> view > >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is > >> this > >> >> > what you mean? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the > >> >> >> database in question? > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. > >> Doesn't > >> >> > seem to have helped. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> D > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson < > >> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz > >> >> >> >wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then > >> link > >> >> to > >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the > >> databases in > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the > >> >> >> database I > >> >> >> > want. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select > >> the > >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and > >> tempdb. > >> >> I > >> >> >> do > >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to > >> >> these > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is > >> >> not > >> >> >> one > >> >> >> > of these. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL > >> Server. I > >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database > >> role > >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User > >> Mapping. > >> >> >> In > >> >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I > >> have > >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the > >> database > >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" > >> dropdown. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Regards > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > David Emerson > >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand > >> >> > >> > > >> > -- > >> > AccessD mailing list > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> > >> > > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com >> databaseadvisors.com > > >> > >> > > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Nov 23 15:38:08 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:38:08 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111123213842.RXMI28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I tried that and couldn't even log in as any user. There seems to be other problems with the profile the Administrator set up for me so I will wait until he gets them sorted out before trying again. Thanks for your suggestions. David At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer > >I can choose > Server Type : Database Engine > ServerName: YourServerName > Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to >Windows Authentication) > Login: limitedUser > password: xxxxx > >It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know he doesn't >have rights to, it will give me an error. > >If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. > > > > >On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows > > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as > > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. > > > > > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? > >> > >> Still sounds like privileges to me. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson > >> wrote: > >> > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> > > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > >> > > >> > > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the > moment, I can > >> >> click on the Office button. > >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose > any server and > >> >> then any database on that > >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing > >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > >> > > >> > > >> > David > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see > if your login > >> >> >> behaves the same there? > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 > R2). I can view > >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings > etc. Is this > >> >> > what you mean? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied > access to the database in question? > >> >> > > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't > >> >> > seem to have helped. > >> >> > > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> D > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson > wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's > network then link to > >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the > databases in the > >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect > to the database I > >> >> >> > want. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in > the "Select the > >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb > and tempdb. I do > >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can > link to these and > >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database > I want is not one > >> >> >> > of these. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in > SQL Server. I > >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all > database role > >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in > User Mapping. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > In the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all > rolls. Status shows I have > >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still > the database > >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the > Server" dropdown. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Regards > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > David Emerson > >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Nov 23 15:40:39 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:40:39 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <4ECD65A3.3640.4C8B3A43@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4ECD65A3.3640.4C8B3A43@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20111123214110.HTDC18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Done that to no avail. Will wait until the administrator can sort out my profile issues before wasting more time on this problem. David At 24/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >IN SSMS 2005, while logged in as an administrator: > >Go to ServerName - Security - Logins and select the login in question. >Right Click and select Properties >Under "Select a Page", select User Mapping >Make sure the databases that you want the Login to be able to >access are ticked in the top >right hand panel and the correct roles are set in the bottom panel. > >-- >Stuart > >On 23 Nov 2011 at 12:59, David McAfee wrote: > > > From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer > > > > I can choose > > Server Type : Database Engine > > ServerName: YourServerName > > Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to > > Windows Authentication) > > Login: limitedUser > > password: xxxxx > > > > It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know he doesn't > > have rights to, it will give me an error. > > > > If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson > wrote: > > > > > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows > > > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as > > > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. > > > > > > > > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > > > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? > > >> > > >> Still sounds like privileges to me. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > > >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at > the moment, I > > >> can > > >> >> click on the Office button. > > >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server > > >> and > > >> >> then any database on that > > >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you > are not seeing > > >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > > >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > > >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > David > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson > > >> >> wrote: > > >> >> > > >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > >> >> > > > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your > > >> login > > >> >> >> behaves the same there? > > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can > > >> view > > >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is > > >> this > > >> >> > what you mean? > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied > access to the > > >> >> >> database in question? > > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. > > >> Doesn't > > >> >> > seem to have helped. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> D > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson < > > >> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz > > >> >> >> >wrote: > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then > > >> link > > >> >> to > > >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the > > >> databases in > > >> >> >> the > > >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the > > >> >> >> database I > > >> >> >> > want. > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in > the "Select > > >> the > > >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and > > >> tempdb. > > >> >> I > > >> >> >> do > > >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to > > >> >> these > > >> >> >> and > > >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the > database I want is > > >> >> not > > >> >> >> one > > >> >> >> > of these. > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL > > >> Server. I > > >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database > > >> role > > >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User > > >> Mapping. > > >> >> >> In > > >> >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I > > >> have > > >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the > > >> database > > >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" > > >> dropdown. > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Regards > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > David Emerson > > >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > > >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > AccessD mailing list > > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com > >> databaseadvisors.com > > > >> > > >> > > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul_lifopro at cox.net Wed Nov 23 15:45:55 2011 From: paul_lifopro at cox.net (paul_lifopro) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:45:55 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives In-Reply-To: <006701cca945$fbf9c730$f3ed5590$@gmail.com> References: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com><023601cca941$112be700$3383b500$@winhaven.net> <006701cca945$fbf9c730$f3ed5590$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <032401ccaa29$47ccd8d0$6d01a8c0@lplaptop2> Jeff, I use the read only QODBC driver you mentioned. The only weird thing about it is that I have found is that the Quickbooks system has to be open when you hit the tables with Access. At least that is what I found out. Otherwise it gives you an error. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Jeff B [mailto:jeff.developer at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Archives Thanks John. I thought we had had a discussion about QuickBooks, that?s why I was looking for the archives. I think I found my solution! It seems that QuickBooks now offers a read only ODBC driver as part of its product. If you look a little farther, they share a link for QODBC read/write driver. The read/write is available through FLEXquarters.com for a nominal fee. Seeing as I have been using ODBC with Access and SQL Server, it seems like the natural way to go. So, I have found my solution! Thanks again! Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Archives Because of some technical issues, we're re-doing the archives right now. Its taking a while. Please be patient. Meanwhile maybe you could ask the list your particular questions. I know that the Quickbooks API has changed considerably over the last few years. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff B Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:58 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Archives Hello Listers! Quick question, I went to look through the archives to see if there was anything about working with Access and QuickBooks, but it seems that all of our archives are unavailable? Do we have any archives available right now? Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 23 16:23:14 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:23:14 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> "I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject." Count me as 'interested'. Your posts are usually highly educational John and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share your experiences with the rest of us. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 3:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL I run three VMs pretty much 24/7 here at my home office, one which I call vmDev which is my development machine, another is my Accuzip third party software vm and one final machine runs SQL Server Express for Access clients coming in over the internet. I had a dedicated server for VMs which I actually just upgraded to a new motherboard, DDR3 ram etc in preparation for the new AM3+ bulldozer processor. Given the weak performance of the new processor I am hanging out waiting for the next rev / price drops before taking that plunge. what I did do however is move all three of those VMs off onto my 16 core SQL Server machine. The only VM which truly needs much horsepower is the Accuzip VM and my performance dropped by half when I did the move. Whereas I was getting about 8-9 million records / hour on the dedicated VM Server, on Azul SQL Server machine I am lucky to get 4.5 million per hour. The difference is mostly just the core speed. The Magney-Cours server chips that I could afford run at 2.0 ghz and have ddr3 1300 memory (registered and ECC), whereas the new motherboard has DDR 1600 memory and a quad core Phenom lightly overclocked to 3.3 ghz. The additional clock speed and memory speed apparently makes for significant additional horsepower. Anyway, I have decided to take the speed hit on the Accuzip VM in order to clean off what was my dedicated VM server and use that for a MySQL machine. As servers go this machine is somewhat wimpy with 4 cores and 16 gigs of memory but for learning MySQL it should suffice. There has been a bit of interest expressed in MySQL, with some list members already using it and others trying to learn it. I count myself in the trying to learn it crowd. My intention is to go with MariaDB. Since I have Hyper-V running on this machine I am thinking about running mariaDB itself on a VM which would allow me to move the VM should I decide to keep it. I have to say I am not having a lot of luck getting a Linux distro running on a Hyper-V VM, but if I can make that happen that would be my preference. If anyone out there has experience getting a linux distro running in a Hyper-V VM running MariaDB let me know. I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Nov 23 16:34:36 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:34:36 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111123214110.HTDC18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.c o.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4ECD65A3.3640.4C8B3A43@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <20111123214110.HTDC18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111123223506.VRXM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Finally solved the problem. I got the administrator to delete my login totally from SQL and recreate it. Now I am in. Thanks David (and Stuart) for your help. At 24/11/2011, David Emerson wrote: >Done that to no avail. Will wait until the administrator can sort >out my profile issues before wasting more time on this problem. > >David > >At 24/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>IN SSMS 2005, while logged in as an administrator: >> >>Go to ServerName - Security - Logins and select the login in question. >>Right Click and select Properties >>Under "Select a Page", select User Mapping >>Make sure the databases that you want the Login to be able to >>access are ticked in the top >>right hand panel and the correct roles are set in the bottom panel. >> >>-- >>Stuart >> >>On 23 Nov 2011 at 12:59, David McAfee wrote: >> >> > From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer >> > >> > I can choose >> > Server Type : Database Engine >> > ServerName: YourServerName >> > Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to >> > Windows Authentication) >> > Login: limitedUser >> > password: xxxxx >> > >> > It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know >> he doesn't >> > have rights to, it will give me an error. >> > >> > If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson >> wrote: >> > >> > > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows >> > > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as >> > > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. >> > > >> > > >> > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > > >> > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? >> > >> >> > >> Still sounds like privileges to me. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson >> > >> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as >> > >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at >> the moment, I >> > >> can >> > >> >> click on the Office button. >> > >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose >> any server >> > >> and >> > >> >> then any database on that >> > >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you >> are not seeing >> > >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using >> another user's >> > >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the >> > >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > David >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson >> >> > >> >> wrote: >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your >> > >> login >> > >> >> >> behaves the same there? >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 >> R2). I can >> > >> view >> > >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role >> settings etc. Is >> > >> this >> > >> >> > what you mean? >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied >> access to the >> > >> >> >> database in question? >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. >> > >> Doesn't >> > >> >> > seem to have helped. >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> D >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson < >> > >> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz >> > >> >> >> >wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then >> > >> link >> > >> >> to >> > >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the >> > >> databases in >> > >> >> >> the >> > >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the >> > >> >> >> database I >> > >> >> >> > want. >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in >> the "Select >> > >> the >> > >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and >> > >> tempdb. >> > >> >> I >> > >> >> >> do >> > >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I >> can link to >> > >> >> these >> > >> >> >> and >> > >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the >> database I want is >> > >> >> not >> > >> >> >> one >> > >> >> >> > of these. >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL >> > >> Server. I >> > >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set >> all database >> > >> role >> > >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User >> > >> Mapping. >> > >> >> >> In >> > >> >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all >> rolls. Status shows I >> > >> have >> > >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the >> > >> database >> > >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" >> > >> dropdown. >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > Regards >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > David Emerson >> > >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> > >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 19:21:04 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 20:21:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Anyone and everyone interested in the subject of MySQL and MariaDB is invited to visit our site (www.artfulsoftware.com), from which you can download a bunch of chapters of our book plus all the source code for free. Beyond that, there is a nominal charge for everything, including free access to everything we add or revise or update during the next year. So far, I confess, there is nothing up yet that is specific to MariaDB, but this is a subject of concern to Peter and me, if only because we would rather sleep with Monty than Larry (metaphorically speaking of course :). Soon shall come additional chapters attempting to describe the buy-out, the momentary allegiance, and the subsequent divorce; and from then on we shall concentrate on MariaDB, leaving the old (except the obsolete) text intact, and building upon it as we follow Monty et. al. into the new world of MariaDB. This is not meant to disparage entirely Oracle's efforts in the MySQL realm. The documentation, to take only one example, has improved, and they have added some useful code as well. But our allegiance remains with Monty. This is an open invitation to all you readers interested in exploring this frontier, so that we can improve our documentation of same. We (Peter Brawley and I) shall try to answer your questions, and we are especially interested in the hurdles you find difficult when switching from MS SQL and other databases, entering the admittedly different world of MySQL and MariaDB. Since the original model was Oracle, I'm guessing that Oracle users will have the path of least resistance, but otoh if they're already into Oracle then why backtrack, except to avoid the huge licensing costs? Not that that's insufficient reason. But I digress. What I'm interested in is the Access and MS SQL user-place, and helping in those arenas. Arthur On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Darryl Collins < darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote: > "I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the > subject." > > Count me as 'interested'. Your posts are usually highly educational John > and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share your experiences > with the rest of us. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 23 19:38:01 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:38:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <5C019DD8-9855-4AF5-B8D6-4C3ABF380EC9@phulse.com> Hi John, I am just forwarding some links I sent someone else the other day regarding the same issue: Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/WindowsServerHyperV CentOS: http://www.hyper-v-mart.com/Howto/Install_CentOS_5_VM_Step_by_Step.aspx Ubuntu: http://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/961.aspx My personal preference is Debian (for more reasons than I can possibly list in a short email) and installing software is pretty easy. To install MySQL, all it takes is to write (as root user on the command line): # apt-get install mysql-server You may choose to do some additional configuration after that point. You will find those in the file: /etc/mysql/my.cnf Then, to start or stop the MySQL server, type either: # /etc/init.d/mysql start or # /etc/init.d/mysql stop ======================== Of course, this is for MySQL, not for MariaDB. Unfortunately, MariaDB has not yet been included into the default software repositories for Debian (or any of the others, I imagine), but you can install the packages from MariaDBs website. I personally recommend, though, that you set it up in your software repositories, as then you will be informed when there are updates and you can use the systems update mechanism to upgrade/patch things for you, rather than having to do it all manually. It's not hard to add Monty's repositories. If you follow this (http://downloads.askmonty.org/mariadb/repositories/), it will give you some lines to add to the file: /etc/apt/sources.list Once you add then, run the command: # apt-get update This will refresh the repository database. Then search for software package name: # apt-cache search mariadb This will list software packages with their name and description. Use that name with the following command: # apt-get install {name} Most likely it will be: #apt-get install mariadb Pretty trivial. - Hans On 2011-11-23, at 2:23 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > "I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject." > > Count me as 'interested'. Your posts are usually highly educational John and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share your experiences with the rest of us. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 3:35 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL > > I run three VMs pretty much 24/7 here at my home office, one which I call vmDev which is my development machine, another is my Accuzip third party software vm and one final machine runs SQL Server Express for Access clients coming in over the internet. I had a dedicated server for VMs which I actually just upgraded to a new motherboard, DDR3 ram etc in preparation for the new AM3+ bulldozer processor. Given the weak performance of the new processor I am hanging out waiting for the next rev / price drops before taking that plunge. > > what I did do however is move all three of those VMs off onto my 16 core SQL Server machine. The only VM which truly needs much horsepower is the Accuzip VM and my performance dropped by half when I did the move. Whereas I was getting about 8-9 million records / hour on the dedicated VM Server, on Azul SQL Server machine I am lucky to get 4.5 million per hour. The difference is mostly just the core speed. The Magney-Cours server chips that I could afford run at 2.0 ghz and have ddr3 1300 memory (registered and ECC), whereas the new motherboard has DDR 1600 memory and a quad core Phenom lightly overclocked to 3.3 ghz. The additional clock speed and memory speed apparently makes for significant additional horsepower. > > Anyway, I have decided to take the speed hit on the Accuzip VM in order to clean off what was my dedicated VM server and use that for a MySQL machine. As servers go this machine is somewhat wimpy with 4 cores and 16 gigs of memory but for learning MySQL it should suffice. > > There has been a bit of interest expressed in MySQL, with some list members already using it and others trying to learn it. I count myself in the trying to learn it crowd. > > My intention is to go with MariaDB. Since I have Hyper-V running on this machine I am thinking about running mariaDB itself on a VM which would allow me to move the VM should I decide to keep it. > I have to say I am not having a lot of luck getting a Linux distro running on a Hyper-V VM, but if I can make that happen that would be my preference. > > If anyone out there has experience getting a linux distro running in a Hyper-V VM running MariaDB let me know. > > I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject. > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 23 20:13:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 21:13:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> I have done some reading about MariaDB and how it is supposed to be a drop in replacement for MySQL. It is fascinating to me the whole process of merging code changes from everyone. Way over my head at this point but interesting none the less. As Oracle updates MySQL some parts of their stuff are apparently being integrated "backwards" into MariaDb, and things that the open source community are adding which Oracle refuses to use are being integrated into MariaDB. Supposedly the best of both worlds but how do they do that? On that note, I found this the other day: http://openlife.cc/blogs/2010/november/leaving-monty-program-and-mariadb Anyway from my reading of the whole thing, for folks wanting all the good stuff, The MariaDb fork is the road we need to travel, until such time as that is sold and the process starts all over. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/23/2011 8:21 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > Anyone and everyone interested in the subject of MySQL and MariaDB is > invited to visit our site (www.artfulsoftware.com), from which you can > download a bunch of chapters of our book plus all the source code for free. > Beyond that, there is a nominal charge for everything, including free > access to everything we add or revise or update during the next year. > > So far, I confess, there is nothing up yet that is specific to MariaDB, but > this is a subject of concern to Peter and me, if only because we would > rather sleep with Monty than Larry (metaphorically speaking of course :). > Soon shall come additional chapters attempting to describe the buy-out, the > momentary allegiance, and the subsequent divorce; and from then on we shall > concentrate on MariaDB, leaving the old (except the obsolete) text intact, > and building upon it as we follow Monty et. al. into the new world of > MariaDB. > > > This is not meant to disparage entirely Oracle's efforts in the MySQL > realm. The documentation, to take only one example, has improved, and they > have added some useful code as well. But our allegiance remains with Monty. > > This is an open invitation to all you readers interested in exploring this > frontier, so that we can improve our documentation of same. We (Peter > Brawley and I) shall try to answer your questions, and we are especially > interested in the hurdles you find difficult when switching from MS SQL and > other databases, entering the admittedly different world of MySQL and > MariaDB. Since the original model was Oracle, I'm guessing that Oracle > users will have the path of least resistance, but otoh if they're already > into Oracle then why backtrack, except to avoid the huge licensing costs? > Not that that's insufficient reason. But I digress. What I'm interested in > is the Access and MS SQL user-place, and helping in those arenas. > > Arthur > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Darryl Collins< > darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote: > >> "I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the >> subject." >> >> Count me as 'interested'. Your posts are usually highly educational John >> and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share your experiences >> with the rest of us. >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. >> >> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Nov 24 08:37:56 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:37:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I doubt that Monty will sell MariaDB, for two reasons: 1) he made enough money from selling MySQL to Larry to last him a few decades; 2) once bitten by the corporate sharks, it's doubtful you'll find him swimming again. Arthur On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:13 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Anyway from my reading of the whole thing, for folks wanting all the good > stuff, The MariaDb fork is the road we need to travel, until such time as > that is sold and the process starts all over. > > John W. Colby > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Thu Nov 24 08:52:56 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:52:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. Thanks for sharing. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > > > zzle/> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz > zle/ > > Rocky > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Nov 24 09:34:02 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 07:34:02 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Also, he doesn't have any more daughters to name the next database by. :) - Hans On 2011-11-24, at 6:37 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I doubt that Monty will sell MariaDB, for two reasons: 1) he made enough > money from selling MySQL to Larry to last him a few decades; 2) once bitten > by the corporate sharks, it's doubtful you'll find him swimming again. > > Arthur > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:13 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> Anyway from my reading of the whole thing, for folks wanting all the good >> stuff, The MariaDb fork is the road we need to travel, until such time as >> that is sold and the process starts all over. >> >> John W. Colby >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 24 11:54:09 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:54:09 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <8C8D533449CB492CB01C17DBACE8B3D5@creativesystemdesigns.com> I believe some people can not be bought and Monty is probably one of them. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL I doubt that Monty will sell MariaDB, for two reasons: 1) he made enough money from selling MySQL to Larry to last him a few decades; 2) once bitten by the corporate sharks, it's doubtful you'll find him swimming again. Arthur On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:13 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Anyway from my reading of the whole thing, for folks wanting all the good > stuff, The MariaDb fork is the road we need to travel, until such time as > that is sold and the process starts all over. > > John W. Colby > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 24 11:55:11 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:55:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Will we live that long? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. Thanks for sharing. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > > > zzle/> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz > zle/ > > Rocky > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Thu Nov 24 12:07:46 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:07:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007><4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Will we live that long? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the > challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to > stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. > Thanks for sharing. > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. >> >> >> > > zzle/> >> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz >> zle/ >> >> Rocky >> From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 24 12:26:01 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:26:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007><4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com><121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Message-ID: So far, so good, eh? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:08 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Will we live that long? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the > challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to > stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. > Thanks for sharing. > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. >> >> >> > est-pu >> zzle/> >> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-harde > st-puz >> zle/ >> >> Rocky >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Thu Nov 24 16:41:59 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:41:59 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE352@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Indeed, I have passed this on myself to a few people excess capacity in both brain power and spare time - lucky bugger ;) good on them though, all of them deserve it. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, 25 November 2011 1:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. Thanks for sharing. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > > > est-pu > zzle/> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-harde > st-puz > zle/ > > Rocky > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 24 19:38:11 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:38:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. Browse sourceforge.net sometime. When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first page: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 years, than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. At least in the USA. Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant Technologies, etc. Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. From vbacreations at gmail.com Thu Nov 24 21:15:14 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:15:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Message-ID: When I clicked link says Page Lost On Nov 24, 2011 1:27 PM, "Rocky Smolin" wrote: > So far, so good, eh? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Will we live that long? > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > > Fields > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > > > Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the > > challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to > > stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. > > Thanks for sharing. > > T > > > > Tina Norris Fields > > tinanfields at torchlake.com > > 231-322-2787 > > > > > > On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > >> > >> > >> > > > est-pu > >> zzle/> > >> > > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-harde > > st-puz > >> zle/ > >> > >> Rocky > >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Thu Nov 24 21:26:04 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 03:26:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE5B9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> It is because the original post didn't constrain the link text with << >>, so it is broken on the word wrap. Try: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson Sent: Friday, 25 November 2011 2:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' When I clicked link says Page Lost On Nov 24, 2011 1:27 PM, "Rocky Smolin" wrote: > So far, so good, eh? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Will we live that long? > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina > > Norris Fields > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > > > Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the > > challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to > > stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. > > Thanks for sharing. > > T > > > > Tina Norris Fields > > tinanfields at torchlake.com > > 231-322-2787 > > > > > > On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > >> > >> > >> > > > rd > > est-pu > >> zzle/> > >> > > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-har > > de > > st-puz > >> zle/ > >> > >> Rocky > >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 24 21:48:40 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:48:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> Message-ID: <4ECF1018.5020706@colbyconsulting.com> I hear you. OTOH there are success stories including Linux itself. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/24/2011 8:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. > This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. > > Browse sourceforge.net sometime. > When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first > page: > http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ > 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! > > There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 > years, > than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. > > Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. > At least in the USA. > Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant > Technologies, etc. > > Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... > Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. > > My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 24 22:04:33 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:04:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECF1018.5020706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com>, <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net>, <4ECF1018.5020706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ECF13D1.27064.531B7266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Just a few of the sourceforge projects I use quite regularly: VLC Player, Gimp, Ghostscript, VirtualDub, Inkscape, Audacity, PDFCreator, TightVNC, AngryIPScanner -- Stuart On 24 Nov 2011 at 22:48, jwcolby wrote: > I hear you. OTOH there are success stories including Linux itself. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/24/2011 8:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > > My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. > > This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. > > > > Browse sourceforge.net sometime. > > When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first > > page: > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ > > 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! > > > > There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 > > years, > > than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. > > > > Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. > > At least in the USA. > > Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant > > Technologies, etc. > > > > Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... > > Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. > > > > My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 24 23:24:05 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:24:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> Message-ID: <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> Some application go and some stay. We have to look no further than Google, Microsoft, Adobe or Oracle to see how many applications they have bailed on, in even the last year. That is the nature of the business. We can look at other applications like Linux, MySQL, Apache, MS Word, Windows and hundreds more and these ones have survived and have become part of the computer infrastructure. MariaDB is MySQL, same designer, same code. I have been using DBDesigner 4 for about 8 years and the creators are long gone. It is still great at building MS SQL and MySQL schemas from graphics. Interesting to note that the "ta-lib" set of tools are been redesigned as of May 2011, but by a different company, this time with a GNU license. Just like MS Access, it is not dead and people will be using it for years even if Microsoft abandons it all together. Which might not be a bad thing as then some unrestricted developers could Open Source it, rebuild the application, with C# (RonR, F#, C++) instead of VB, translator from VB to C#, full web interface and with a DB BE that would even make Oracle shutter. My thought is do not worry, do your research, just pick some nice tools or applications that does what you need and then abandon it when it doesn't. There is always another great application coming along. OTOH, just like the song say, "...know when to hold, know when to fold, know when to walk away, know when to run..." Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 5:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. Browse sourceforge.net sometime. When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first page: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 years, than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. At least in the USA. Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant Technologies, etc. Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 24 23:26:22 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:26:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECF13D1.27064.531B7266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <4ECF1018.5020706@colbyconsulting.com> <4ECF13D1.27064.531B7266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: All absolute excellent products and you have just touched the surface. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 8:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL Just a few of the sourceforge projects I use quite regularly: VLC Player, Gimp, Ghostscript, VirtualDub, Inkscape, Audacity, PDFCreator, TightVNC, AngryIPScanner -- Stuart On 24 Nov 2011 at 22:48, jwcolby wrote: > I hear you. OTOH there are success stories including Linux itself. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/24/2011 8:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > > My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. > > This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. > > > > Browse sourceforge.net sometime. > > When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first > > page: > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ > > 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! > > > > There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 > > years, > > than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. > > > > Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. > > At least in the USA. > > Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant > > Technologies, etc. > > > > Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... > > Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. > > > > My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pedro at plex.nl Fri Nov 25 09:53:59 2011 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:53:59 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Access and Word import Message-ID: <201111250853.pAP8rx5P028738@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Group, I have a MS-Word file with data that is given at the end of this mail. I would like to select out the number T10-00008 and 5 positions after the words "Radicaliteit:" en "Diff:", with a script or macro and save these in Access or in a txt file for importing in Access. The textfile looks like "T10-00008";"plus ";"+++ " "T10-00014";"negat ";"++ " or in Access like: Number Radi Diff T10-00008 plus +++ T10-00014 negat ++ Thanks Pedro ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** T10-00008 2010-01-04 pn: 00000000, gb: ............................ CONCLUSIE: Patient met tumor. Radicaliteit: plus , ......... Diff: +++ ....... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** T10-00014 ..................etc CONCLUSIE: Algemene malaise. Radicaliteit: negatief , ......... Diff: ++ ....... From marksimms at verizon.net Fri Nov 25 07:44:47 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:44:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> Someone said MARIADB is the same source code as MYSQL ? I find it hard to believe that greedy Larry Ellison made that kind of deal with the originators of MYSQL. It's not like him to permit competition !! Larry loves to not just "level the playing field", but to destroy it. From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Nov 25 08:51:45 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 06:51:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> Message-ID: Mark, MySQL is released under the GPL v2. Oracle purchased Suns assets with this understanding (and likewise, Sun purchased MySQL AB knowingly accepting the terms of the license), so Oracle couldn't lock up the code even if they wanted to. There are things they can do, like provide proprietary extensions and they could even just remove download links to the source code (or kill the project altogether), but it is fully within the rights of anyone to fork the code and do with it whatever they want legally. Fortunately, Oracle seems to be somewhat accepting of their situation for the time being. - Hans On 2011-11-25, at 5:44 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Someone said MARIADB is the same source code as MYSQL ? > > > I find it hard to believe that greedy Larry Ellison made that kind of deal > with the originators of MYSQL. > It's not like him to permit competition !! Larry loves to not just "level > the playing field", but to destroy it. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 25 09:22:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:22:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> Message-ID: <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> > Someone said MARIADB is the same source code as MYSQL ? MariaDB is the same source code base, taken from MySQL. Take what I say with a heaping handful of salt but my understanding is that the license for an open source project states something like - You may take this source base. If you modify any of this base code you must offer the changes back to the community. You may however add entirely new code for functionality that does not exist in the source base, and if you do you do not have to offer that back to the community. I am not intimately familiar with the history (Perhaps Arthur can step up here) but it seems that Sun was the "originator of" the source base. When they made any modifications of any kind including major new enhancements, they were adding those mods to the source base and they were available under the open source license. Oracle bought Sun. Oracle decided to hold onto major new enhancements and not offer them back to the community. Thus Oracle is building MySQL editions for sale which use the code base plus their enhancements. MariaDB took the code base and "forked it" and started adding major new enhancements which are kept in the open source community. From what I can tell, because it is in the public domain, Oracle can if they wish take the enhancements that MariaDB makes and add those into the base that they make available for free, and because that is in their "for sale" version they can use those enhancements in their "for sale" versions. But we will never see their "for sale" enhancements without paying their licensing fees. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/25/2011 8:44 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Someone said MARIADB is the same source code as MYSQL ? > > > I find it hard to believe that greedy Larry Ellison made that kind of deal > with the originators of MYSQL. > It's not like him to permit competition !! Larry loves to not just "level > the playing field", but to destroy it. > > > From marksimms at verizon.net Fri Nov 25 11:34:53 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:34:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> Wow, let get this crazy GPL stuff straight: Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them into their version and give them away OR.... It can even sell them ? Again, I guess I really must understand that in the open source software business, the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Nov 25 12:13:14 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:13:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> Message-ID: > Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them > into their version and give them away OR?. It can even sell them ? Technically, you can, but only as a redistribution price and you are bound by terms of the GPL to also distribute the source code along with it. You cannot "sell the software" as in "selling the rights to use it". That is not permissible, since they do not own the rights to the MariaDB source code. > the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and, MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? That's right. Also, a lot of open source businesses are supported by means of funding by different companies that depend on their products. And, on occasion, those businesses then get snapped up by larger organisations (ie. Oracle, IBM, etc). On the flip side, if the project is very successful in the community and the owners prefer to donate their project to the greater good of the community, what can also happen is that they donate the code to the protection of someone like the Apache Software Foundation (ie. like Hadoop, Apache web server, Cassandra DB, etc). - Hans On 2011-11-25, at 9:34 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Wow, let get this crazy GPL stuff straight: > > Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them into > their version and give them away OR.... > It can even sell them ? > > Again, I guess I really must understand that in the open source software > business, the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and > MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 25 12:20:19 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 04:20:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com>, <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> Message-ID: <4ECFDC63.14826.20349C6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Take a look at http://www.mysql.com/products/community/ and http://www.mysql.com/products/ Oracle sell support and add-ons. Any MariaDB enhancements would have to be incorporated in the core Community Edition, not in one of their proprietary add-ons. -- Stuart. On 25 Nov 2011 at 12:34, Mark Simms wrote: > Wow, let get this crazy GPL stuff straight: > > Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them into > their version and give them away OR.... > It can even sell them ? > > Again, I guess I really must understand that in the open source software > business, the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and > MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Fri Nov 25 12:39:13 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:39:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007><4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com><121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesys temdesigns.com><4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <4ECFE0D1.7090304@torchlake.com> Umm - yes, so far. I woke up this morning and I'm still here. Must be a good thing. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/24/2011 1:26 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > So far, so good, eh? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Will we live that long? >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris >> Fields >> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' >> >> Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the >> challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to >> stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. >> Thanks for sharing. >> T >> >> Tina Norris Fields >> tinanfields at torchlake.com >> 231-322-2787 >> >> >> On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. >>> >>> >>> >> > est-pu >>> zzle/> >>> >> http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-harde >> st-puz >>> zle/ >>> >>> Rocky >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Nov 25 12:43:10 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:43:10 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> Message-ID: That is correct. One of Microsoft's very reliable revenue streams is product support. ;-) A company may need a piece of software to run their business and they will just hire a software developer to add some enhancements for their purposes and then hire an integrator to assemble a group of packages. They will of course know any improvements dealing directly with the core will have to be added back to the license but they will have a complete set of source code at the end, which is an ultimate form of business security. All these transactions of course make money, the software continues to evolve and improve at a much more rapid pace than proprietary designed products. (You only have to look at how long IE6 languished and how fast such products like FF evolved. To MS's credit, they have worked very hard to keep pace but do not have the number of programmers and they are just viewing the support of IE as nothing more than the cost of doing business.) The business is more like a code rental where the renters are encouraged to make improvements, than a product purchase, so the renters are no longer stuck to the whims of a proprietary system and continuous licensing fees. I for one, have probably spent a lot of money on donating to various Open Source products, 10, 25 and sometimes a hundred, over the years. If I like the software, I like to encourage it. To add a political note; Open Source software can be viewed as a blend of socialized software and free-enterprise, both in their purest forms. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 9:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL Wow, let get this crazy GPL stuff straight: Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them into their version and give them away OR.... It can even sell them ? Again, I guess I really must understand that in the open source software business, the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 25 14:50:01 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:50:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How many frames per second can the human eye see? Message-ID: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 25 16:52:14 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 08:52:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How many frames per second can the human eye see? In-Reply-To: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED01C1E.25389.2FC3ACD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Great stuff - thought provoking. -- Stuart On 25 Nov 2011 at 15:50, jwcolby wrote: > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 26 08:28:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:28:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman Message-ID: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeWindowsBetter.aspx From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat Nov 26 10:05:21 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:05:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How many frames per second can the human eye see? In-Reply-To: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED10E41.4010504@torchlake.com> Interesting. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/25/2011 3:50 PM, jwcolby wrote: > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 10:22:39 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:22:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How many frames per second can the human eye see? In-Reply-To: <4ED10E41.4010504@torchlake.com> References: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED10E41.4010504@torchlake.com> Message-ID: I'm not seeing the link or whatever, but am curious to know more. Makes me think of the seemingly-backwards-turning stagecoach wheels in old Westerns. A. On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Tina Norris Fields < tinanfields at torchlake.com> wrote: > Interesting. > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > > On 11/25/2011 3:50 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 10:38:24 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:38:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting up a blog. I love to write. That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog service sites ? I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ And it appears Wordpress is the best. However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to purchase the software and templates, etc. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > indowsBetter.aspx > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 10:41:29 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:41:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] blog censorship In-Reply-To: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <003c01ccac5a$3fdbdf30$bf939d90$@net> http://ncacblog.wordpress.com/ Yep, there's even a wordpress blog about blog censorship !! From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 11:18:46 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:18:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9F9D0EDD24B84A089305018C286D10CC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeWindow sBetter.aspx -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 11:37:00 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:37:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> Message-ID: Hi Mark: Wordpress is definitely the best as far as I have seen. A Wordpress site was set up for my wife so she could organize a large project that covered a number of countries. It was very successful but not the traditional use for the site as just a Blog. Wordpress is written in PHP, not that a user has to know but for the more adventuresome individual there are thousands of hacks that can allow you to do anything...and if you are or what to learn PHP, a massive mature language, you can make Wordpress do anything. Many people view Wordpress blogs that don't even know it as the site has been so tricked up. The only thing that would be really nice is if you could access a database but I am sure someone has figured out how. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Blogging When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting up a blog. I love to write. That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog service sites ? I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ And it appears Wordpress is the best. However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to purchase the software and templates, etc. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > indowsBetter.aspx > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 12:20:14 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:20:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> Message-ID: I use WordPress for my blog and have been extremely happy with it. They've recently added the ability to implement social media sharing to various site by simply turning on the ones you want. The dashboard is busy but less complicated than it looks. The one thing I haven't figured out yet (haven't tried to hard either!) is how to back link it to my website. It's on the website already as a tab, but if you go straight in through http://charlottefoust.wordpress.com/ there's no direct link to the site. Charlotte Foust On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting > up a blog. > I love to write. > That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog > service sites ? > I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ > > > And it appears Wordpress is the best. > However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. > Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? > In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? > Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to > purchase > the software and templates, etc. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > > Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > > > > indowsBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Sat Nov 26 13:36:37 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:36:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. Here is what I have picked up so far. Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to ?evil doers? who may try to get at it. There are several ?remote control? products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on ?peripheral? topics. Thanks, Brad From garykjos at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 13:56:10 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:56:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I use remote desktop via a secure VPN encrypted connection. Not sure what is done on the server end to allow this to work but we use Cisco VPN Client software We each have security key fob type things that display a changing number and we have to enter that number along with our login info to make it work. GK On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. > > I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. ?We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. > > I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). > > I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). > > I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. > > Here is what I have picked up so far. > > Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to ?evil doers? who may try to get at it. > > There are several ?remote control? products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. > > As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. > > I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on ?peripheral? topics. > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Sat Nov 26 15:18:30 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:18:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <00ce01ccac80$f271aff0$d7550fd0$@cox.net> I have a client who's IT folks set up a VPN and I use remote desktop to work on that system. For all others I use Techinline.com. It costs $ but seems fast and works all over the world. They have several purchase programs. We don't use much so buy 20 sessions at a time. A session is good for a day. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. Here is what I have picked up so far. Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to "evil doers" who may try to get at it. There are several "remote control" products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on "peripheral" topics. Thanks, Brad From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat Nov 26 15:27:01 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:27:01 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A785A0@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> I remote to my desktop to get around cytrix which we are supposed to use. I also use vnc to remote to another system. Martin Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Brad Marks Sent: 26/11/2011 19:41 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. Here is what I have picked up so far. Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to ?evil doers? who may try to get at it. There are several ?remote control? products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on ?peripheral? topics. Thanks, Brad From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 16:25:40 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 17:25:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002601ccac8a$54d8f230$fe8ad690$@net> I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 26 18:02:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 19:02:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED17E1A.5060805@colbyconsulting.com> I use Hamachi to set up a Virtual Private Network. Only people that I allow can join the network. I join the network as a client and I set up the server side on the system I want to control. Voila, static IP. Hamachi can be disabled but most small shops do not know how nor for that matter that it even exists. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/26/2011 2:36 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. > > I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. > > I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). > > I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). > > I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. > > Here is what I have picked up so far. > > Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to ?evil doers? who may try to get at it. > > There are several ?remote control? products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. > > As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. > > I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on ?peripheral? topics. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 26 18:23:37 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:23:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <9F9D0EDD24B84A089305018C286D10CC@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <9F9D0EDD24B84A089305018C286D10CC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. It's great. On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeWindow > sBetter.aspx > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 26 18:35:05 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:35:05 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net>, Message-ID: <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> With Wordpress, you can either create a new blog on the Wordpress site or download it and install it on your own web server. All you need to run it on any hosted website is PHP 5.2.4+ and MySQL 5.0+ support. They are almost universal. Since it uses MySQL for the BE, you can access the databse with phpMyAdmin which should come with any hosting package that offers PHP/MySQL. If you want to host it on your own server, You just need to install WAMP or XAMP and then Wordpress. If you set it up on a hosting service, the only real potential censorship is the hosting organisation closing your site down. If you set it up on your own server, the only potential censorship is your Connection Provider cutting you off completely. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:37, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Mark: > > Wordpress is definitely the best as far as I have seen. A Wordpress site was > set up for my wife so she could organize a large project that covered a > number of countries. It was very successful but not the traditional use for > the site as just a Blog. > > Wordpress is written in PHP, not that a user has to know but for the more > adventuresome individual there are thousands of hacks that can allow you to > do anything...and if you are or what to learn PHP, a massive mature > language, you can make Wordpress do anything. Many people view Wordpress > blogs that don't even know it as the site has been so tricked up. > > The only thing that would be really nice is if you could access a database > but I am sure someone has figured out how. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:38 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Blogging > > When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting > up a blog. > I love to write. > That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog > service sites ? > I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ > And it appears Wordpress is the best. > However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. > Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? > In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? > Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to purchase > the software and templates, etc. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > > Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > > indowsBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 19:15:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 17:15:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <4ED17E1A.5060805@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED17E1A.5060805@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <2FC223ECE659421AAEB320B52C09E62C@creativesystemdesigns.com> I agree the Hamachi is the securest and simplest VPN to setup and then whatever remote desktop software you want to use is just fine as its security is irrelevant. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 4:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access I use Hamachi to set up a Virtual Private Network. Only people that I allow can join the network. I join the network as a client and I set up the server side on the system I want to control. Voila, static IP. Hamachi can be disabled but most small shops do not know how nor for that matter that it even exists. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/26/2011 2:36 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. > > I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. > > I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). > > I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). > > I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. > > Here is what I have picked up so far. > > Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to "evil doers" who may try to get at it. > > There are several "remote control" products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. > > As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. > > I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on "peripheral" topics. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 19:19:29 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 17:19:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <5FC737C6594A47ECBFEF1A94AC765A56@creativesystemdesigns.com> Moreover, there you have the best way...a little more work than a having WP host it but unlimited options. I guess most of the DBA members have their own servers. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 4:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blogging With Wordpress, you can either create a new blog on the Wordpress site or download it and install it on your own web server. All you need to run it on any hosted website is PHP 5.2.4+ and MySQL 5.0+ support. They are almost universal. Since it uses MySQL for the BE, you can access the databse with phpMyAdmin which should come with any hosting package that offers PHP/MySQL. If you want to host it on your own server, You just need to install WAMP or XAMP and then Wordpress. If you set it up on a hosting service, the only real potential censorship is the hosting organisation closing your site down. If you set it up on your own server, the only potential censorship is your Connection Provider cutting you off completely. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:37, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Mark: > > Wordpress is definitely the best as far as I have seen. A Wordpress site was > set up for my wife so she could organize a large project that covered a > number of countries. It was very successful but not the traditional use for > the site as just a Blog. > > Wordpress is written in PHP, not that a user has to know but for the more > adventuresome individual there are thousands of hacks that can allow you to > do anything...and if you are or what to learn PHP, a massive mature > language, you can make Wordpress do anything. Many people view Wordpress > blogs that don't even know it as the site has been so tricked up. > > The only thing that would be really nice is if you could access a database > but I am sure someone has figured out how. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:38 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Blogging > > When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting > up a blog. > I love to write. > That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog > service sites ? > I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ > And it appears Wordpress is the best. > However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. > Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? > In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? > Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to purchase > the software and templates, etc. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > > Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > > indowsBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Nov 26 20:06:10 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 20:06:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <9F9D0EDD24B84A089305018C286D10CC@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I want them. Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. It's great. On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > Window > sBetter.aspx > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 26 20:24:46 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:24:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Nov 26 21:25:49 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:25:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel - at a 'small' price! Is it worth $9.95? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 22:08:22 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 23:08:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net>, <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001101ccacba$34c12730$9e437590$@net> Wow, thanks for that Stuart. Yes, and it is incredible that censorship is "THE ISSUE" surrounding BLOGGING. I had a funny feeling that would be the case....and I was proven 100% correct. If you guys haven't determined by now, I'm shortly moving into a new and "risqu?" area now.... far, far away from IT....relative to the core of my business at present. Still, I'll be using some of my IT talents to some degree...and that's THE good thing. Boy, is this a great American paraphrase or what ? : "Ya gotta do, what ya gotta do". And that, my friends, is my modus-operandi. I am right now on my final "stinker" contract (3 months, high pressure, low pay).... Not just one, but multiple agencies are now making money off of my talents... while "I do the work, and they make the money". It all ends in March 2012. After that, if all goes well, I am into a whole new world....and "so be it". And guys (and gals), this new world is simply crazy...with DEMAND.... something I have NOT witnessed in the past 5 years ! Unlike 15 years ago, I've never heard any recruiter or agency over the past 5 years say anything like: "wow, your talent is really in demand, you're really valuable". NOPE: None...Nada...Zippo..Zilch...Zed...Zero. The Indians simply LEVELED the IT contracting marketplace. I mean, it was NUCLEAR in it's effects ! In fact, recent interviews were actually DEMEANING to me. Yep, you bet...even in the good old USA. Bottomline: Employment Agencies....."rule the roost". They're in complete control. Someone on this fine list once said that "they?ve got an monopoly". INDEED they do. If you don't have the latest and greatest "in-demand" skills...you are completely worthless....a pathetic $40 or $50 bucks an hour....at most....no benefits. That's a net $20/hr gig essentially. Heck, many college grads are making more than that with no experience. Newly minted "PharmD's" are at $60/hr. The key to my new world is "fulfillment"....BUT that is easier said than done. To be successful, it will require tremendous "attention to detail". How many times have we all heard that ? And so, that becomes my new mission in life. Sorry if this has become a diatribe of sorts...I had some wine tonight...an excellent and rich Cabernet: Arrowood 2003, Sonoma County, CA. Whew, it "rocks". From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 26 22:30:01 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:30:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel - at > a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently > on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > > want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 22:52:11 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 23:52:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <005401ccacc0$5418ee00$fc4aca00$@gmail.com> Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as $19.95. I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be cycled through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different fences depending on the view selected. Is that possible? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 23:47:49 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:47:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <001101ccacba$34c12730$9e437590$@net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001101ccacba$34c12730$9e437590$@net> Message-ID: <31EE8F0063874009A8F60ADCB58126C7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Mark: Well, don't just leave us hanging, tell us what you are up to. I promise I will not follow you. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blogging Wow, thanks for that Stuart. Yes, and it is incredible that censorship is "THE ISSUE" surrounding BLOGGING. I had a funny feeling that would be the case....and I was proven 100% correct. If you guys haven't determined by now, I'm shortly moving into a new and "risqui" area now.... far, far away from IT....relative to the core of my business at present. Still, I'll be using some of my IT talents to some degree...and that's THE good thing. Boy, is this a great American paraphrase or what ? : "Ya gotta do, what ya gotta do". And that, my friends, is my modus-operandi. I am right now on my final "stinker" contract (3 months, high pressure, low pay).... Not just one, but multiple agencies are now making money off of my talents... while "I do the work, and they make the money". It all ends in March 2012. After that, if all goes well, I am into a whole new world....and "so be it". And guys (and gals), this new world is simply crazy...with DEMAND.... something I have NOT witnessed in the past 5 years ! Unlike 15 years ago, I've never heard any recruiter or agency over the past 5 years say anything like: "wow, your talent is really in demand, you're really valuable". NOPE: None...Nada...Zippo..Zilch...Zed...Zero. The Indians simply LEVELED the IT contracting marketplace. I mean, it was NUCLEAR in it's effects ! In fact, recent interviews were actually DEMEANING to me. Yep, you bet...even in the good old USA. Bottomline: Employment Agencies....."rule the roost". They're in complete control. Someone on this fine list once said that "theyve got an monopoly". INDEED they do. If you don't have the latest and greatest "in-demand" skills...you are completely worthless....a pathetic $40 or $50 bucks an hour....at most....no benefits. That's a net $20/hr gig essentially. Heck, many college grads are making more than that with no experience. Newly minted "PharmD's" are at $60/hr. The key to my new world is "fulfillment"....BUT that is easier said than done. To be successful, it will require tremendous "attention to detail". How many times have we all heard that ? And so, that becomes my new mission in life. Sorry if this has become a diatribe of sorts...I had some wine tonight...an excellent and rich Cabernet: Arrowood 2003, Sonoma County, CA. Whew, it "rocks". From vbacreations at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 23:47:59 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 00:47:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <005a01ccacc8$1f796d70$5e6c4850$@gmail.com> When I clicked BUY at 19.95, that is when it reduces the price... no other warning. So, thanks for the tip~! -----Original Message----- From: William Benson (VBACreations.Com) [mailto:vbacreations at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as $19.95. I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be cycled through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different fences depending on the view selected. Is that possible? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 00:05:45 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 16:05:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <005a01ccacc8$1f796d70$5e6c4850$@gmail.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <>, <005a01ccacc8$1f796d70$5e6c4850$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ED1D339.10234.9AF7F11@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> This page shows $19.95 in red and struck out with $9.95 in black beside it: http://www.stardock.com/products/ as does this page: http://www.stardock.com/products/fences/purchase.asp -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 0:47, William Benson (VBACreations. wrote: > When I clicked BUY at 19.95, that is when it reduces the price... no other > warning. So, thanks for the tip~! > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Benson (VBACreations.Com) [mailto:vbacreations at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as > $19.95. > > I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be cycled > through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different > fences depending on the view selected. > > Is that possible? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently > on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > > want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Sun Nov 27 00:10:05 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 01:10:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED1D339.10234.9AF7F11@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <005a01ccacc8$1f796d70$5e6c4850$@gmail.com> <4ED1D339.10234.9AF7F11@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Bought a gift copy for my client whose bday was last week. On Nov 27, 2011 1:07 AM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > This page shows $19.95 in red and struck out with $9.95 in black beside it: > > http://www.stardock.com/products/ > as does this page: > http://www.stardock.com/products/fences/purchase.asp > > > -- > Stuart > > On 27 Nov 2011 at 0:47, William Benson (VBACreations. wrote: > > > When I clicked BUY at 19.95, that is when it reduces the price... no > other > > warning. So, thanks for the tip~! > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: William Benson (VBACreations.Com) [mailto:vbacreations at gmail.com] > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:52 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as > > $19.95. > > > > I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be > cycled > > through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different > > fences depending on the view selected. > > > > Is that possible? > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently > > on "special" at > > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > the > > > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them > where I > > > want them. > > > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > > > Dan > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows > > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to > > it. > > > It's great. > > > > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > John W. Colby > > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > > > Window > > > > sBetter.aspx > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Nov 27 05:26:05 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:26:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Message-ID: Hi Brad and Mark It's more than just fine. It's excellent, and we set up the free version routinely on all workstations as my colleagues often work out of the house. Also, they often have dedicated workstations at clients where we install it too so these machines can be reached from our office (or home or other clients' locations). It can't be made easier to set up - takes a minute or so and works through any firewall and requires zero "special" things to be done. For more dedicated use, however, we do establish Remote Desktop to an in-house terminal server because of the local printing option. Some prefer TeamViewer which is excellent too. However, the free version is for "private use" only and we are reluctant to install such software for professional use. /gustav >>> marksimms at verizon.net 26-11-2011 23:25 >>> I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 09:27:59 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:27:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08EE19CB-844B-4186-B8A7-BCA64F8D1FA0@verizon.net> I find teamviewer simpler to use then lomein as I find their interface clumsy. Teamviewer is not cheap, but it's well worth the money. The way they license too is great for small shops. Jim Sent from my iPhone On Nov 27, 2011, at 6:26 AM, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Brad and Mark > > It's more than just fine. It's excellent, and we set up the free version routinely on all workstations as my colleagues often work out of the house. Also, they often have dedicated workstations at clients where we install it too so these machines can be reached from our office (or home or other clients' locations). > > It can't be made easier to set up - takes a minute or so and works through any firewall and requires zero "special" things to be done. > For more dedicated use, however, we do establish Remote Desktop to an in-house terminal server because of the local printing option. > > Some prefer TeamViewer which is excellent too. However, the free version is for "private use" only and we are reluctant to install such software for professional use. > > /gustav > > >>>> marksimms at verizon.net 26-11-2011 23:25 >>> > I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 09:39:51 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:39:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and installation. However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 09:50:36 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <31EE8F0063874009A8F60ADCB58126C7@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001101ccacba$34c12730$9e437590$@net> <31EE8F0063874009A8F60ADCB58126C7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <003601ccad1c$4eab23f0$ec016bd0$@net> > Well, don't just leave us hanging, tell us what you are up to. I > promise I will not follow you. ;-) I assembled a rough business plan....and now I am in the process of refining it. How ? By visiting my potential competition.... and scoring and ranking them. Yep, that's what the BLOG is going to do. I am most interested in getting independent feedback on the scores and verbal review from other customers. After all, one cannot really make a thorough assessment with only a single transaction. Sooooo.....Jim.... All in good time. From df.waters at comcast.net Sun Nov 27 10:10:04 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:10:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> <4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net> I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic features to be useful. So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > - at a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > them where I want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThat > > > Make > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Nov 27 10:39:39 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 08:39:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net><4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to do and don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, Computer, and drives shortcuts. Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets I use often right from the desktop in another. A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. Another fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm done working on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their folder on comp 2. A fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, Ghost, Lexmark Printer stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic features to be useful. So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > - at a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > them where I want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThat > > > Make > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Sun Nov 27 10:45:06 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:45:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access References: Message-ID: All, Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Gustav Brock Sent: Sun 11/27/2011 5:26 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Hi Brad and Mark It's more than just fine. It's excellent, and we set up the free version routinely on all workstations as my colleagues often work out of the house. Also, they often have dedicated workstations at clients where we install it too so these machines can be reached from our office (or home or other clients' locations). It can't be made easier to set up - takes a minute or so and works through any firewall and requires zero "special" things to be done. For more dedicated use, however, we do establish Remote Desktop to an in-house terminal server because of the local printing option. Some prefer TeamViewer which is excellent too. However, the free version is for "private use" only and we are reluctant to install such software for professional use. /gustav >>> marksimms at verizon.net 26-11-2011 23:25 >>> I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 10:54:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 11:54:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> References: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> Message-ID: <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very easy to use however. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." > > That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and > installation. > However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". > I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 10:57:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 11:57:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> Remote Desktop is tightly integrated with Windows. All the others are layered on top of Windows. Remote Desktop is indeed much much faster in most cases and I prefer RD whenever I can make that work. That is why I prefer Hamachi VPN when I can make that work. I have hard IPs and so I can use RD over Hamachi. Hamachi also allows you to browse network shares on the remote computer and even map network shares to local drive letters if you so desire. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 11:45 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. > > With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. > In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. > > Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? > > I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. > > Brad From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Nov 27 11:04:23 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 09:04:23 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Can you transfer files with remote desktop? I found that you can transfer files with Skype - very handy. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very easy to use however. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." > > That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and > installation. > However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". > I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sun Nov 27 11:22:19 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 11:22:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net><4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net> <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> Message-ID: <001801ccad29$1e64d210$5b2e7630$@comcast.net> I tried it for the first time yesterday. I wanted a fence which enclosed the shortcuts for all my customers' stuff. But within the fence the shortcuts kept 'auto-arranging' themselves, which mixed up the shortcut locations. I wanted each customer's shortcuts in a vertical column, but (for example) the fence would not let me have a column of 7 shortcuts and a column of 5 shortcuts - they kept rearranging to two columns of 6 shortcuts. I hope the pro version does let me put the shortcuts where I want them. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to do and don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, Computer, and drives shortcuts. Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets I use often right from the desktop in another. A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. Another fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm done working on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their folder on comp 2. A fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, Ghost, Lexmark Printer stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic features to be useful. So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > - at a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > them where I want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThat > > > Make > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Nov 27 11:37:54 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 09:37:54 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilitiesthat makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001801ccad29$1e64d210$5b2e7630$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net><4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net><15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> <001801ccad29$1e64d210$5b2e7630$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <60C88AD8710645D99FEE95AC508DCE83@HAL9007> How about two fences of 6 shortcuts? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilitiesthat makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I tried it for the first time yesterday. I wanted a fence which enclosed the shortcuts for all my customers' stuff. But within the fence the shortcuts kept 'auto-arranging' themselves, which mixed up the shortcut locations. I wanted each customer's shortcuts in a vertical column, but (for example) the fence would not let me have a column of 7 shortcuts and a column of 5 shortcuts - they kept rearranging to two columns of 6 shortcuts. I hope the pro version does let me put the shortcuts where I want them. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to do and don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, Computer, and drives shortcuts. Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets I use often right from the desktop in another. A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. Another fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm done working on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their folder on comp 2. A fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, Ghost, Lexmark Printer stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic features to be useful. So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > - at a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > them where I want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThat > > > Make > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 11:57:57 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:57:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0DD97455-0FDF-4932-8D0B-5490F9AAD5B4@verizon.net> That's not as true as you might think. All run on top of terminal service, but There are other protocols out there that can be used in place of RDP which are more efficient, such as Citrix's. Jim Sent from my iPhone On Nov 27, 2011, at 11:57 AM, jwcolby wrote: > Remote Desktop is tightly integrated with Windows. All the others are layered on top of Windows. Remote Desktop is indeed much much faster in most cases and I prefer RD whenever I can make that work. That is why I prefer Hamachi VPN when I can make that work. I have hard IPs and so I can use RD over Hamachi. Hamachi also allows you to browse network shares on the remote computer and even map network shares to local drive letters if you so desire. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 11:45 AM, Brad Marks wrote: >> All, >> >> Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. >> >> With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. >> In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. >> >> Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? >> >> I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. >> >> Brad > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 12:16:59 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 13:16:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED27E9B.4060704@colbyconsulting.com> I am not sure but RD only works over a VPN and with any vpn you can see and map remote shares. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 12:04 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Can you transfer files with remote desktop? > > I found that you can transfer files with Skype - very handy. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access > > And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very > easy to use however. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: >> Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." >> >> That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and >> installation. >> However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". >> I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Nov 27 12:44:01 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:44:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Message-ID: Hi Mark Nothing to be aware of. It offers this automatically the first time you access your account from a new machine, it is signed, and it's a simple Click-Next-Next install. >>> marksimms at verizon.net 27-11-2011 16:39 >>> Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and installation. However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Nov 27 12:54:31 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:54:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access Message-ID: Hi John No, you can let RDP through any network but only if the required ports are open. And that's exactly the trouble; if you are in control it is just to do it, but if some notwork guy is to be convinced he/she may be a show stopper. For good reasons you may say, because the default port of 3389 is one of those that scanners test so on a public network you should adjust RDP to use another port. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 27-11-2011 19:16 >>> I am not sure but RD only works over a VPN and with any vpn you can see and map remote shares. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 12:04 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Can you transfer files with remote desktop? > > I found that you can transfer files with Skype - very handy. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access > > And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very > easy to use however. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: >> Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." >> >> That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and >> installation. >> However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". >> I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 14:33:28 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:33:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F7B5F914EBB429C940DFD701E134E27@creativesystemdesigns.com> If your network person is concerned then he should put a secure VPN around the connections. (At one time, I worked with a network guy that was over the top with security and it took the manager to say either the consultant has remote connection by noon or you're gone.) There is no remote login system that is absolute 100 percent secure as it is just another open port that some bot can pound away at...for the next 100 years if automated. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access All, Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Gustav Brock Sent: Sun 11/27/2011 5:26 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Hi Brad and Mark It's more than just fine. It's excellent, and we set up the free version routinely on all workstations as my colleagues often work out of the house. Also, they often have dedicated workstations at clients where we install it too so these machines can be reached from our office (or home or other clients' locations). It can't be made easier to set up - takes a minute or so and works through any firewall and requires zero "special" things to be done. For more dedicated use, however, we do establish Remote Desktop to an in-house terminal server because of the local printing option. Some prefer TeamViewer which is excellent too. However, the free version is for "private use" only and we are reluctant to install such software for professional use. /gustav >>> marksimms at verizon.net 26-11-2011 23:25 >>> I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 14:37:20 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:37:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0129BF58E6474CBA950AFABC145037E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> That combo is definitely the best of all worlds and security as close to 100 percent as our universe allows...with 256-bit encryption. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Remote Desktop is tightly integrated with Windows. All the others are layered on top of Windows. Remote Desktop is indeed much much faster in most cases and I prefer RD whenever I can make that work. That is why I prefer Hamachi VPN when I can make that work. I have hard IPs and so I can use RD over Hamachi. Hamachi also allows you to browse network shares on the remote computer and even map network shares to local drive letters if you so desire. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 11:45 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. > > With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. > In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. > > Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? > > I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. > > Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 14:40:24 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:40:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: As far as I know, Skype will allow you copy files up to a certain sizes but RDP will allow you to stream files of any size and of course, it requires no client intervention. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:04 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access Can you transfer files with remote desktop? I found that you can transfer files with Skype - very handy. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very easy to use however. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." > > That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and > installation. > However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". > I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 14:43:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:43:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <0DD97455-0FDF-4932-8D0B-5490F9AAD5B4@verizon.net> References: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> <0DD97455-0FDF-4932-8D0B-5490F9AAD5B4@verizon.net> Message-ID: <93026C743025480B8B4A20812842F191@creativesystemdesigns.com> Microsoft bought its core Terminal service from Citrix and just removed features for the RDP on desktops. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access That's not as true as you might think. All run on top of terminal service, but There are other protocols out there that can be used in place of RDP which are more efficient, such as Citrix's. Jim Sent from my iPhone On Nov 27, 2011, at 11:57 AM, jwcolby wrote: > Remote Desktop is tightly integrated with Windows. All the others are layered on top of Windows. Remote Desktop is indeed much much faster in most cases and I prefer RD whenever I can make that work. That is why I prefer Hamachi VPN when I can make that work. I have hard IPs and so I can use RD over Hamachi. Hamachi also allows you to browse network shares on the remote computer and even map network shares to local drive letters if you so desire. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 11:45 AM, Brad Marks wrote: >> All, >> >> Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. >> >> With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. >> In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. >> >> Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? >> >> I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. >> >> Brad > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 17:00:51 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:00:51 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net>, <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ED2C123.2392.D50DEC0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I use it in much the same way as you. The main thing the Pro version does is let you sort within a fence automtically by name, date etc rather than having to arrange the icons individual by drag and drop. It guess it would be useful if you put "lots" of files in a fence, otherwise not a great benefit Apparently what Dan wants is to turn off the "automatic snap to grid" inside a fence and without that ability , he thinks that the application is worthless. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 8:39, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to do and > don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, Computer, and > drives shortcuts. > > Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets I use > often right from the desktop in another. > > A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. Another > fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm done working > on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their folder on comp 2. A > fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, Ghost, Lexmark Printer > stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. > > It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! > > But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no > value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little > miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic > features to be useful. > > So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have > to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air > conditioning, GPS etc. > > It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in > increased > convenience and comfort. > > But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and > give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. > > Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > > > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > > - at a 'small' price! > > > > Is it worth $9.95? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > > (Currently on "special" at > > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > > them where I want them. > > > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > > > Dan > > > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 27 17:02:11 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:02:11 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8A3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yeah, I paid for it as the free version has been so darn useful. I don't mind throwing a bit of cash when folks go ahead and make software that is so darn useful. Of course, your mileage may vary. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, 27 November 2011 2:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel - at a 'small' price! Is it worth $9.95? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sun Nov 27 17:03:37 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:03:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED2C123.2392.D50DEC0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net>, <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> <4ED2C123.2392.D50DEC0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001c01ccad58$cc20ca10$64625e30$@comcast.net> Hmmmmm - for me, yes. For you, no. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I use it in much the same way as you. The main thing the Pro version does is let you sort within a fence automtically by name, date etc rather than having to arrange the icons individual by drag and drop. It guess it would be useful if you put "lots" of files in a fence, otherwise not a great benefit Apparently what Dan wants is to turn off the "automatic snap to grid" inside a fence and without that ability , he thinks that the application is worthless. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 8:39, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to > do and don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, > Computer, and drives shortcuts. > > Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets > I use often right from the desktop in another. > > A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. > Another fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm > done working on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their > folder on comp 2. A fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, > Ghost, Lexmark Printer stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. > > It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that > makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman > > I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! > > But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is > of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I > get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which > doesn't have the basic features to be useful. > > So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll > have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air > conditioning, GPS etc. > > It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to > you in increased > convenience and comfort. > > But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop > and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. > > Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > > > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering > > wheel > > - at a 'small' price! > > > > Is it worth $9.95? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > > (Currently on "special" at > > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence > > > all the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I > > > want them where I want them. > > > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > > > Dan > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 27 17:04:46 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:04:46 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <005401ccacc0$5418ee00$fc4aca00$@gmail.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <005401ccacc0$5418ee00$fc4aca00$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8C0@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Bill, If you go via their site directly, you will see the sale price. Have a look here: <> and click on the Fences link. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Sunday, 27 November 2011 3:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as $19.95. I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be cycled through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different fences depending on the view selected. Is that possible? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 17:15:17 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:15:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8A3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net>, <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8A3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ED2C485.20949.D5E1328@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> When it only $10-20, I occassionally do the same. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 23:02, Darryl Collins wrote: > Yeah, I paid for it as the free version has been so darn useful. I > don't mind throwing a bit of cash when folks go ahead and make > software that is so darn useful. > > Of course, your mileage may vary. > > Cheers > Darryl > From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 19:27:02 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:27:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8C0@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <005401ccacc0$5418ee00$fc4aca00$@gmail.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8C0@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <001501ccad6c$d547afa0$7fd70ee0$@net> Isn't it just best to buy the whole object desktop suite for $50 ? I think that ICON developer is pretty slick. I tried with Photoshop to create my own PNG images for the Ribbon....and for command buttons.... And they really stunk....not very sharp. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > Bill, If you go via their site directly, you will see the sale price. > > Have a look here: <> and click on > the Fences link. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson > (VBACreations.Com) > Sent: Sunday, 27 November 2011 3:52 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it > as $19.95. > > I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be > cycled through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in > different fences depending on the view selected. > > Is that possible? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > the > > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them > where I > > want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 19:39:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:39:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net Message-ID: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the copy is very light. Is it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 19:57:12 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:57:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I don't know about paint.net, but with any decent image editor it is very easy to do. Even Irfanview allows you to easily manipulate the contrast, birghtness, saturation, gamma correction etc of an image. In fact that is probably the simplest tool you will find to do the job. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 20:39, jwcolby wrote: > I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the copy is very light. Is > it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW > increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 27 20:25:01 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 02:25:01 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE9F6@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yeah, in my experience MS Paint has to be the worst graphics tool I have ever had the mispleasure to (try) and use. It has never produce good results for me and always resulted in loss of quality. Irfanview on the other had is pretty solid and I use it to make icons etc. That said, I don't have the need to make Icons that often so a dedicated tool hasn't been on my radar. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, 28 November 2011 12:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paint.net I don't know about paint.net, but with any decent image editor it is very easy to do. Even Irfanview allows you to easily manipulate the contrast, birghtness, saturation, gamma correction etc of an image. In fact that is probably the simplest tool you will find to do the job. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 20:39, jwcolby wrote: > I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of > course the copy is very light. Is it possible to darken the washed > out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 20:36:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:36:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> Paint.Net looks like a nice program...I have never heard of it before. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the copy is very light. Is it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 21:20:35 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:20:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000001ccad7c$b25e3490$171a9db0$@net> Photoshop could do this one of two ways: 1) special filters 2) select pixels of an image based on a color range - it was very tricky to get it just right, but very powerful when it worked. There was a "fuzziness" setting that you had to work with trial-and-error. The key to this technique is the "washed out text" must be a distinguishable and somewhat unique color range. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:40 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net > > I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of > course the copy is very light. Is > it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also > darkening the background. IOW > increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more > black? > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 21:23:26 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:23:26 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com>, <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED2FEAE.7223.E414525@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I have it installed but have never really done much with it. I just checked it out. To answer JC's question: Yes - it's really simple in Paint.net. Go to Adjustments - Curves Make sure Luminosity is selected. Then click on various points on the straight line you see and drag it into some sort of S shape. A little experimentation with several points on the curve should give you what you want. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 18:36, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Paint.Net looks like a nice program...I have never heard of it before. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:40 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net > > I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the > copy is very light. Is > it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also > darkening the background. IOW > increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Sun Nov 27 21:23:59 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:23:59 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Yes, Jim. Paint.Net is very nice. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 3:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paint.net Paint.Net looks like a nice program...I have never heard of it before. Jim From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 27 21:53:34 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 03:53:34 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEAB4@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Ditto, but it looks very nice. We use GIMP at work, but this (at a glance) looks better. Nice one ! :) thanks. Will download and have a look. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, 28 November 2011 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paint.net Paint.Net looks like a nice program...I have never heard of it before. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the copy is very light. Is it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 23:38:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 00:38:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4ED31E41.806@colbyconsulting.com> I ended up doing it by reversing black and white, then pulling the brightness up to 100%, then flipping black and white again. I ended up with some speckles (copy crap) but the text itself ended up nice and dark. I tried just pulling the contrast and such but it pulled the background to a gray color. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 8:57 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I don't know about paint.net, but with any decent image editor it is very easy to do. > > Even Irfanview allows you to easily manipulate the contrast, birghtness, saturation, gamma > correction etc of an image. In fact that is probably the simplest tool you will find to do the > job. > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 23:44:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 00:44:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hard drives are starting to drop in price after the huge price jump from the floods. Message-ID: <4ED31FC1.2050809@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 23:44:53 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:44:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED31E41.806@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4ED31E41.806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED31FD5.8166.EC2C761@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You might like to try it again using "Curves" and compare the result for future reference. -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 0:38, jwcolby wrote: > I ended up doing it by reversing black and white, then pulling the brightness up to 100%, then > flipping black and white again. I ended up with some speckles (copy crap) but the text itself ended > up nice and dark. I tried just pulling the contrast and such but it pulled the background to a gray > color. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 8:57 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > I don't know about paint.net, but with any decent image editor it is very easy to do. > > > > Even Irfanview allows you to easily manipulate the contrast, birghtness, saturation, gamma > > correction etc of an image. In fact that is probably the simplest tool you will find to do the > > job. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 28 08:06:39 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:06:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hard drives are starting to drop in price after the huge price jump from the floods. In-Reply-To: <4ED31FC1.2050809@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED31FC1.2050809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <005f01ccadd6$f37995a0$da6cc0e0$@net> John - were the SSD's also affected, or only the rotational drives ? From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 28 08:51:32 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 06:51:32 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> FYI http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ 2862?tag=nl.e101 But the important thing is - what does this mean for us as Access developers? Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com Skype: rocky.smolin From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 28 09:56:28 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:56:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ > 2862?tag=nl.e101 From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 28 10:05:17 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 08:05:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind > ows-8/ > 2862?tag=nl.e101 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 28 10:15:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:15:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ED3B3B1.1060608@colbyconsulting.com> It certainly sounds like they are doing their homework on this one. It sure would be nice if they would build a VM that you could download and run under hyper-V. I have no interest in installing this native on any of my boxes. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > FYI > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ > 2862?tag=nl.e101 > > But the important thing is - what does this mean for us as Access > developers? > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > Skype: rocky.smolin > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 28 10:22:11 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:22:11 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Rocky and John et al Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ > 2862?tag=nl.e101 From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 28 10:28:39 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:28:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Rocky You probably will - as Windows 8 can run any modern Windows application - but to utilize the new top level tiled interface, you will need something like Visual Studio as Access in the view of MS is not a development environment, only an app with some fancy macro programming options (what is VBA?). /gustav >>> rockysmolin at bchacc.com 28-11-2011 17:05 >>> Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 10:55:31 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:55:31 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> Message-ID: Hi Rocky -- I suppose, you certainly will... -- Shamil 28 ?????? 2011, 20:06 ?? "Rocky Smolin" : > Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? > > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 > in a few years. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind > > ows-8/ > > 2862?tag=nl.e101 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 11:01:10 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:01:10 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) Thank you. -- Shamil 28 ?????? 2011, 20:19 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Rocky and John et al > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > /gustav > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ > > 2862?tag=nl.e101 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 28 11:27:14 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:27:14 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Shamil I've only played a little with it. Problem is that my machine at work still runs XP and that doesn't accept the Phone 7 developing environment. However, I _will_ get started on this ... and to get it going, next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia in programming these devices. Our phones are Samsung Omnia7 with WP7 which should be able to upgrade to 7.5 soon. /gustav >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:01 >>> Hi Gustav -- I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) Thank you. -- Shamil 28 ?????? 2011, 20:19 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Rocky and John et al > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > /gustav > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 11:40:59 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:40:59 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- > next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia > in programming these devices Good news! If you'll have opportunity to take brief notes on that course and share that notes here that would be very useful - just notes on what should be taken into consideration first of all when doing WP 7/7.5 development.... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I have just played a bit with my kid Samsung Galaxy Fit Android device (never had opportunity before to touch/play with Android devices or iPhones -I was very before several years in a row :)) - that Android technology is a very useful thing, no doubt - *now* this world is becoming really connected - would that help this World nations to understand better each other? - let's hope so... 28 ?????? 2011, 21:24 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > I've only played a little with it. Problem is that my machine at work still runs XP and that doesn't accept the Phone 7 developing environment. > However, I _will_ get started on this ... and to get it going, next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia in programming these devices. > > Our phones are Samsung Omnia7 with WP7 which should be able to upgrade to 7.5 soon. > > /gustav > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:01 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 28 ?????? 2011, 20:19 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 28 11:57:23 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:57:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Shamil With the limited amount of time available I've decided to stay off Android and iPhone and concentrate on WP7. Yes I know - lots of those units out there - but you have to focus. As for connecting the World, I think we've seen a lot of this during the last half year of so - for example, how the news from North Africa have spread all over within the hour. Smart phones do play a role as they always are at hand (literally) /gustav >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:40 >>> Hi Gustav -- > next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia > in programming these devices Good news! If you'll have opportunity to take brief notes on that course and share that notes here that would be very useful - just notes on what should be taken into consideration first of all when doing WP 7/7.5 development.... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I have just played a bit with my kid Samsung Galaxy Fit Android device (never had opportunity before to touch/play with Android devices or iPhones -I was very before several years in a row :)) - that Android technology is a very useful thing, no doubt - *now* this world is becoming really connected - would that help this World nations to understand better each other? - let's hope so... 28 ****** 2011, 21:24 ** "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > I've only played a little with it. Problem is that my machine at work still runs XP and that doesn't accept the Phone 7 developing environment. > However, I _will_ get started on this ... and to get it going, next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia in programming these devices. > > Our phones are Samsung Omnia7 with WP7 which should be able to upgrade to 7.5 soon. > > /gustav > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:01 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 28 ****** 2011, 20:19 ** "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 12:37:42 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:37:42 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- Yes, I also currently do not plan to make Andorid or iPhone development - I have just played with my kid Android device to see what it does, and it does a lot of useful things - Google, Gmail, GoogleTalk, GoogleMaps, .... "at your fingertips" - just name the few ... Now, "fresh with that experience" I will see what WP 7.5 will have to propose me (as a customer) - currently Android device looks very attractive and the "Google vs. MS smart-phones technology battle" promise to be very interesting... Re: connected world - yes, it all starts now - lets' hope it will be driven by goodwill not by George Orwell's "oligarchical dictatorship of the Parties" one of which "United Russia" (still in rather embryonic state but anyway horrible) I'm "happy" to witness here in Russia nowadays... Thank you. -- Shamil 28 ?????? 2011, 21:54 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > With the limited amount of time available I've decided to stay off Android and iPhone and concentrate on WP7. Yes I know - lots of those units out there - but you have to focus. > > As for connecting the World, I think we've seen a lot of this during the last half year of so - for example, how the news from North Africa have spread all over within the hour. Smart phones do play a role as they always are at hand (literally) > > /gustav > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:40 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > > next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia > > in programming these devices > Good news! If you'll have opportunity to take brief notes on that course and share that notes here that would be very useful - just notes on what should be taken into consideration first of all when doing WP 7/7.5 development.... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > P.S. I have just played a bit with my kid Samsung Galaxy Fit Android device (never had opportunity before to touch/play with Android devices or iPhones -I was very before several years in a row :)) - that Android technology is a very useful thing, no doubt - *now* this world is becoming really connected - would that help this World nations to understand better each other? - let's hope so... > > 28 ****** 2011, 21:24 ** "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Shamil > > > > I've only played a little with it. Problem is that my machine at work still runs XP and that doesn't accept the Phone 7 developing environment. > > However, I _will_ get started on this ... and to get it going, next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia in programming these devices. > > > > Our phones are Samsung Omnia7 with WP7 which should be able to upgrade to 7.5 soon. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:01 >>> > > Hi Gustav -- > > > > I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 28 ****** 2011, 20:19 ** "Gustav Brock" : > > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 28 15:45:06 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:45:06 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007>, <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com>, <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ED400E2.16834.1231DFF1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> At this stage Windows 8 is two different OSs as far as developers are concerned: 1. Desktop Windows 2. Tablet Windows You will need to develop for one of the other. They use different UI paradigms They use different APIs They use different development tools. They will frequently run on different processors - dekstop native code will not be cross-compatible - so if you build a complied to run on an Intel desktop, it will not run on an ARM tablet Note that every one of the listed things is about tablets and "uers apps". I don't see business-centric, data intensive applications running on a metro interface or a tablet for a long time to come. With Windows 8 in a business environment, users will switch on, log in, click oon the Desktop Icon and then function the way they do now. They only part of Metro they will see on this work PC will be the logon screen. It may be the next great thing if developers and users go for it and it makes huge inroads in the mobile market. Or it may be the death knell for Microsoft as an OS selller - You could be looking at a massive shift to Android/Linux in the next few years if it doesn't go down well in the marketplace. -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 8:05, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 > in a few years. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind > > ows-8/ > > 2862?tag=nl.e101 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 28 16:10:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:10:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Rocky and John et al > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ >> 2862?tag=nl.e101 > > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 28 16:36:46 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:36:46 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED14@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> I would also ask if 'touch' is better. Period. Sure it has a kinda ubercoolness about it and for tablets it makes sense. Even so, I still love the buttons on my older iPod as I can skip tracks etc by feel only, never needing to take my eyes off the road (or whatever). Not so easy to do on a touch set up. So for a device where you are consuming media, touch is probably good, but for me, where I am making stuff the sheer speed and power of the mouse keyboard combo seems hard to beat. Maybe I am just an old monkey struggling to learn new tricks. One thing I will say about those smart phones that really sucks is their battery life. My 2004 Nokia 6600 (which is still in regular use today) is still powering on a single charge for up to 6 days. My wife's HTC needs charging every night. This is not a diss at HTC, all the smart phones are like that. One days use (even on standby) and you need to find a power outlet. Plurk. Batteries are still the weak link. Just my musings. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Rocky and John et al > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-win >> dows-8/ >> 2862?tag=nl.e101 > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 28 16:40:57 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:40:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And retrofitting all of my systems is a > non-starter. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > > tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > > screens, and video boards. > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 28 17:01:45 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:01:45 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > > tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > > screens, and video boards. > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 28 17:22:13 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:22:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED400E2.16834.1231DFF1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> <4ED400E2.16834.1231DFF1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Not to be a nay-sayer, but my two cents: if Facebook is planning to release a phone and Blackberry is dying, it suggests to me that the overall market is already saturated and that WP7 is dead on arrival. Maybe Microsoft will be able to capture a few percent. It would seem to me that developing outside the Android and iPhone platforms is a big risk to take, unless you have a very niche market? - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-28, at 1:45 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > At this stage Windows 8 is two different OSs as far as developers are concerned: > > 1. Desktop Windows > 2. Tablet Windows > > You will need to develop for one of the other. > They use different UI paradigms > They use different APIs > They use different development tools. > > They will frequently run on different processors - dekstop native code will not be > cross-compatible - so if you build a complied to run on an Intel desktop, it will not run on an > ARM tablet > > Note that every one of the listed things is about tablets and "uers apps". > > I don't see business-centric, data intensive applications running on a metro interface or a > tablet for a long time to come. With Windows 8 in a business environment, users will switch > on, log in, click oon the Desktop Icon and then function the way they do now. They only part > of Metro they will see on this work PC will be the logon screen. > > It may be the next great thing if developers and users go for it and it makes huge inroads in > the mobile market. > > Or it may be the death knell for Microsoft as an OS selller - You could be looking at a > massive shift to Android/Linux in the next few years if it doesn't go down well in the > marketplace. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 28 Nov 2011 at 8:05, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >> >> For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 >> in a few years. >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind >>> ows-8/ >>> 2862?tag=nl.e101 >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 28 17:25:39 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:25:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <697A31B1-2823-41F6-B3E7-A223DA808EC4@phulse.com> Not to mention, accidents with monitors falling off the back of the desk. :) - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-28, at 3:01 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? > > Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. > > -- > Stuart > > On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > >> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>> >>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>> >>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>> screens, and video boards. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 18:25:39 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 04:25:39 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: , <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Darryl -- Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... Thank you. -- Shamil 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins : > Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? > > Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. > > -- > Stuart > > On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > > > Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > > retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > > Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > > > tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > > > screens, and video boards. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 28 18:28:39 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:28:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that "other venture"... which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. His track record is not that good. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 28 19:08:45 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:08:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, Message-ID: <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the fine resolution of a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel precision with a fingertip? On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Darryl -- > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 28 19:10:04 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:10:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> References: , <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> Message-ID: <4ED430EC.10726.12ED88F0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It's just as likely to be: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be the Windows killer". -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 19:28, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" > > Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. > It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that "other > venture"... > which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. > > On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! > Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. > His track record is not that good. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 28 19:49:01 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:49:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> References: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> Message-ID: <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> The only way that Microsoft can produce an iPad killer is if they manage to somehow completely bridge the gap between different types of users with an intuitive UI. I am pleasantly surprised to see how much my own non-technical father has taken to his iPad. He thinks its brilliant and now he's hooked using it all the time for Skype, emailing, viewing family photos and reading the news etc, but now and again he still asks me how something is done rather than experimenting himself. Not as much with a normal desktop computer and maybe this is really due to the conditioning that comes with decades of using Windows on the desktop, but even I can see there are still some rough edges on (even) the iPad that make it so it isn't always evident what button to press or what the result of your interaction will be. With Android, this is even worse. If Microsoft can somehow manage to create a UI interface where any type of user can feel completely natural using it, then Microsoft may in fact have an iPad killer. My feeling is that they won't be able to. As far as I am aware (and please correct me if I am wrong), they are only just making it more complicated by laying the Metro UI on top of a regular Windows desktop. And, if they can't, well, I cannot see how they can possibly be any sort of "something"-killer, unless they compete for the sub-$200 market undercutting the Kindle Fire (which unlikely, given hardware requirements for Windows). I'm not sure this is what regular consumers want and that this is just more or less the same as Microsofts previously failed tablet offerings prior to the iPad. We shall see how things play out. - Hans On 2011-11-28, at 4:28 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" > > Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. > It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that "other > venture"... > which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. > > On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! > Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. > His track record is not that good. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 28 20:02:30 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 02:02:30 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> References: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yeah, I see them as two totally different markets. Many folks love and buy apple products as they don't have to worry about tweaking anything to make things function. This comes at a cost of course (both money and function), but for many consumers they either don't know about the costs or more likely care. I guess it is part of a product maturing in some ways. Back in the 60's when you purchased a car it was quite normal for you to do a lot of the maintenance yourself. The car would even come with a full workshop manual and often some basic tool kits as well. Compare that to these days were most folks call roadside assist to change a tyre and would never look under the bonnet - ever. I see the iThings a bit like that. Most folks don't care about the loss of flexibility or even creating stuff on the PC. They just want to access media, browse the web and get info via apps etc. And for the that the iPad is brilliant. Andriod is more flexible, but people don't want choices, they want something that works without any intervention from them. ... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 12:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 The only way that Microsoft can produce an iPad killer is if they manage to somehow completely bridge the gap between different types of users with an intuitive UI. I am pleasantly surprised to see how much my own non-technical father has taken to his iPad. He thinks its brilliant and now he's hooked using it all the time for Skype, emailing, viewing family photos and reading the news etc, but now and again he still asks me how something is done rather than experimenting himself. Not as much with a normal desktop computer and maybe this is really due to the conditioning that comes with decades of using Windows on the desktop, but even I can see there are still some rough edges on (even) the iPad that make it so it isn't always evident what button to press or what the result of your interaction will be. With Android, this is even worse. If Microsoft can somehow manage to create a UI interface where any type of user can feel completely natural using it, then Microsoft may in fact have an iPad killer. My feeling is that they won't be able to. As far as I am aware (and please correct me if I am wrong), they are only just making it more complicated by laying the Metro UI on top of a regular Windows desktop. And, if they can't, well, I cannot see how they can possibly be any sort of "something"-killer, unless they compete for the sub-$200 market undercutting the Kindle Fire (which unlikely, given hardware requirements for Windows). I'm not sure this is what regular consumers want and that this is just more or less the same as Microsofts previously failed tablet offerings prior to the iPad. We shall see how things play out. - Hans On 2011-11-28, at 4:28 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" > > Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. > It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that > "other venture"... > which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. > > On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! > Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. > His track record is not that good. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 28 21:12:33 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:12:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <003c01ccae44$bd6258d0$38270a70$@net> Then again, that's the way it's ALWAYS BEEN. Users can't tell you how to build a great app or interface.... They just know it when they see it....and use it. No reason Balmer & Company can't pull off an Ipad killer. No reason at all except for laziness or stupidity. In fact, if I were Balmer, I'd have a hundred posters printed with a picture of an Ipad being smashed with a sledgehammer that had a Windows 8 logo on it. Put em in all of the development rooms. Finally, I've been impressed with Samsung....they've got good quality devices at a fair price. Heck, a merger of MSFT and Samsung would give Apple the "willies". >.Most folks don't care about the loss of > flexibility or even creating stuff on the PC. They just want to access > media, browse the web and get info via apps etc. And for the that the > iPad is brilliant. Andriod is more flexible, but people don't want > choices, they want something that works without any intervention from > them. From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 28 21:24:16 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:24:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Perhaps you are onto something, Darryl. And perhaps Microsoft is merely trying to target corporate in the hopes they will turn away from iPads and Android tablets in favour of the familiar. But it's not very adventuresome of them, you have to admit. - Hans On 2011-11-28, at 6:02 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Yeah, I see them as two totally different markets. Many folks love and buy apple products as they don't have to worry about tweaking anything to make things function. This comes at a cost of course (both money and function), but for many consumers they either don't know about the costs or more likely care. > > I guess it is part of a product maturing in some ways. Back in the 60's when you purchased a car it was quite normal for you to do a lot of the maintenance yourself. The car would even come with a full workshop manual and often some basic tool kits as well. > > Compare that to these days were most folks call roadside assist to change a tyre and would never look under the bonnet - ever. I see the iThings a bit like that. Most folks don't care about the loss of flexibility or even creating stuff on the PC. They just want to access media, browse the web and get info via apps etc. And for the that the iPad is brilliant. Andriod is more flexible, but people don't want choices, they want something that works without any intervention from them. > > ... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 12:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > The only way that Microsoft can produce an iPad killer is if they manage to somehow completely bridge the gap between different types of users with an intuitive UI. I am pleasantly surprised to see how much my own non-technical father has taken to his iPad. He thinks its brilliant and now he's hooked using it all the time for Skype, emailing, viewing family photos and reading the news etc, but now and again he still asks me how something is done rather than experimenting himself. Not as much with a normal desktop computer and maybe this is really due to the conditioning that comes with decades of using Windows on the desktop, but even I can see there are still some rough edges on (even) the iPad that make it so it isn't always evident what button to press or what the result of your interaction will be. > > With Android, this is even worse. > > If Microsoft can somehow manage to create a UI interface where any type of user can feel completely natural using it, then Microsoft may in fact have an iPad killer. My feeling is that they won't be able to. As far as I am aware (and please correct me if I am wrong), they are only just making it more complicated by laying the Metro UI on top of a regular Windows desktop. And, if they can't, well, I cannot see how they can possibly be any sort of "something"-killer, unless they compete for the sub-$200 market undercutting the Kindle Fire (which unlikely, given hardware requirements for Windows). > > I'm not sure this is what regular consumers want and that this is just more or less the same as Microsofts previously failed tablet offerings prior to the iPad. > > We shall see how things play out. > > - Hans > > > > > On 2011-11-28, at 4:28 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" >> >> Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. >> It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that >> "other venture"... >> which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. >> >> On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! >> Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. >> His track record is not that good. >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 28 21:41:44 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:41:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid has wonderful voice recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming I pretty much type 99% the same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my computer is something that is close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Darryl -- > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins: >> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >> >> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? >> >> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. >> >> -- >> Stuart >> >> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >> >>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>> >>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>> >>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>>> screens, and video boards. >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Nov 29 01:22:40 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:22:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> <4ED400E2.16834.1231DFF1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <609ADEFEF4F042F892610C05988FEE0A@creativesystemdesigns.com> I would concur...I would consider myself a Windows fan but I have to also be practical. If Windows is widely and heartily adopted then it will get more of my attention...but at this moment, odds do not look good. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 3:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Not to be a nay-sayer, but my two cents: if Facebook is planning to release a phone and Blackberry is dying, it suggests to me that the overall market is already saturated and that WP7 is dead on arrival. Maybe Microsoft will be able to capture a few percent. It would seem to me that developing outside the Android and iPhone platforms is a big risk to take, unless you have a very niche market? - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-28, at 1:45 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > At this stage Windows 8 is two different OSs as far as developers are concerned: > > 1. Desktop Windows > 2. Tablet Windows > > You will need to develop for one of the other. > They use different UI paradigms > They use different APIs > They use different development tools. > > They will frequently run on different processors - dekstop native code will not be > cross-compatible - so if you build a complied to run on an Intel desktop, it will not run on an > ARM tablet > > Note that every one of the listed things is about tablets and "uers apps". > > I don't see business-centric, data intensive applications running on a metro interface or a > tablet for a long time to come. With Windows 8 in a business environment, users will switch > on, log in, click oon the Desktop Icon and then function the way they do now. They only part > of Metro they will see on this work PC will be the logon screen. > > It may be the next great thing if developers and users go for it and it makes huge inroads in > the mobile market. > > Or it may be the death knell for Microsoft as an OS selller - You could be looking at a > massive shift to Android/Linux in the next few years if it doesn't go down well in the > marketplace. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 28 Nov 2011 at 8:05, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >> >> For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 >> in a few years. >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind >>> ows-8/ >>> 2862?tag=nl.e101 >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Nov 29 01:26:20 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:26:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <6F72D2FEBC464D60B6B7FFF2D2DDACE5@creativesystemdesigns.com> I think that what happens when you don't do your backups and the system crashes and then everything you lost is a virtual document. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 5:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the fine resolution of a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel precision with a fingertip? On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Darryl -- > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Nov 29 02:27:54 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:27:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Mark That's exactly what I see when people use the Windows Phone - they understand it right away because of the simplicity and the superior graphic design - including a perfect font and beautiful ring tones made by musicians (my favourite is 19 Bell which is a pure joy to listen to). MSFT has been lazy and stupid at many occasions through the years but the Metro project is the opposite; a master-piece in visual design and use, only possible by hard work from a team of highly skilled people with 100% backup from the management. This is why I say "don't ever underestimate MSFT". Just watch the videos about the Metro design (links published here several times). It takes some courage to dismount all the useless 3D-stuff - which have gone too far - and return to 2D. /gustav >>> marksimms at verizon.net 29-11-2011 04:12 >>> Then again, that's the way it's ALWAYS BEEN. Users can't tell you how to build a great app or interface.... They just know it when they see it....and use it. No reason Balmer & Company can't pull off an Ipad killer. No reason at all except for laziness or stupidity. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 29 03:51:42 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:51:42 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- > This is why I say "don't ever underestimate MSFT". Yes: http://www.insearchofstupidity.com/ -- Shamil 29 ?????? 2011, 12:25 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Mark > > That's exactly what I see when people use the Windows Phone - they understand it right away because of the simplicity and the superior graphic design - including a perfect font and beautiful ring tones made by musicians (my favourite is 19 Bell which is a pure joy to listen to). > > MSFT has been lazy and stupid at many occasions through the years but the Metro project is the opposite; a master-piece in visual design and use, only possible by hard work from a team of highly skilled people with 100% backup from the management. This is why I say "don't ever underestimate MSFT". Just watch the videos about the Metro design (links published here several times). It takes some courage to dismount all the useless 3D-stuff - which have gone too far - and return to 2D. > > /gustav > > >>> marksimms at verizon.net 29-11-2011 04:12 >>> > Then again, that's the way it's ALWAYS BEEN. Users can't tell you how to > build a great app or interface.... > They just know it when they see it....and use it. > No reason Balmer & Company can't pull off an Ipad killer. > No reason at all except for laziness or stupidity. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 29 03:55:10 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:55:10 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John -- Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how I will be able to do that effectively :) -- Shamil 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : > Shamil, > > Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid has wonderful voice > recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming I pretty much type 99% the > same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my computer is something that is > close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Darryl -- > > > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins: > >> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) > >> > >> Cheers > >> Darryl. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > >> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > >> > >> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? > >> > >> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. > >> > >> -- > >> Stuart > >> > >> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > >> > >>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > >>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > >>> > >>> John W. Colby > >>> Colby Consulting > >>> > >>> Reality is what refuses to go away > >>> when you do not believe in it > >>> > >>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > >>>> Hi Rocky and John et al > >>>> > >>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > >>>> > >>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > >>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > >>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > >>>> screens, and video boards. > >>>> > >>>> /gustav > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 29 03:58:35 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:58:35 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart -- I mainly mean "shuffling" virtual documents by hands, getting/putting them into "folders" etc. Pixel precision cursor location with fingertip(s) will be done by using special virtual "pointing" assistants... Thank you. -- Shamil 29 ?????? 2011, 05:10 ?? "Stuart McLachlan" : > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the fine resolution of > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel precision with a > fingertip? > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Darryl -- > > > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Nov 29 07:52:47 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:52:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> Stuart, I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point with touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very powerful thing. Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is buttons. Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where consumer electronics is going. When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on a keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with your finger). Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. I need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. And not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard built into the desktop. As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you make them larger then the text they display; why is that? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the fine resolution of a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel precision with a fingertip? On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Darryl -- > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Nov 29 08:41:23 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:41:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sub Query Assistance Requested Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F705B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I have the following query that works correctly returning a result of 8 SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count] FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))); I would also like to return the field EngArea from the table [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] also. Would that be possible and if so how? My attempts so far have failed. Result should be something like this Active Flowing Count EngArea 3 1 1 2 4 3 Thanks. Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 10:01:02 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:01:02 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et al!! Charlotte Foust On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi John -- > > Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how > I will be able to do that effectively :) > > -- Shamil > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : > > Shamil, > > > > Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid > has wonderful voice > > recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming > I pretty much type 99% the > > same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my > computer is something that is > > close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Darryl -- > > > > > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > > > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > > > > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< > darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: > > >> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use > these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large > monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving > my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things > happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily > angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the > issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More > cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate > finger prints on my screens!! ;) > > >> > > >> Cheers > > >> Darryl. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > >> > > >> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a > business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database > application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your > fingertips? > > >> > > >> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a > tough time. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Stuart > > >> > > >> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > > >> > > >>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > > >>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > > >>> > > >>> John W. Colby > > >>> Colby Consulting > > >>> > > >>> Reality is what refuses to go away > > >>> when you do not believe in it > > >>> > > >>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > >>>> Hi Rocky and John et al > > >>>> > > >>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, > Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > >>>> > > >>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > >>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > > >>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > > >>>> screens, and video boards. > > >>>> > > >>>> /gustav > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >> > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Nov 29 10:25:00 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:25:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <77E871AEBCC748BE817DF91D22CCC36A@HAL9007> Phonetic Punctuation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF4qii8S3gw Classic R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 8:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et al!! Charlotte Foust On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi John -- > > Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine > how I will be able to do that effectively :) > > -- Shamil > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : > > Shamil, > > > > Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My > > Droid > has wonderful voice > > recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am > > programming > I pretty much type 99% the > > same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to > > my > computer is something that is > > close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Darryl -- > > > > > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > > > multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > > > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally > > > mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > > > > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< > darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: > > >> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices > > >> use > these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 > large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to > be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to > make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is > flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that > - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling > lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell > I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) > > >> > > >> Cheers > > >> Darryl. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > >> > > >> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in > > >> a > business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database > application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at > your fingertips? > > >> > > >> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a > tough time. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Stuart > > >> > > >> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > > >> > > >>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > > >>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > > >>> > > >>> John W. Colby > > >>> Colby Consulting > > >>> > > >>> Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > >>> > > >>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > >>>> Hi Rocky and John et al > > >>>> > > >>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, > Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > >>>> > > >>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > >>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone > > >>>> through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV > > >>>> monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > >>>> > > >>>> /gustav > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >> > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 29 13:47:21 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:47:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> Haha I remember that one. A true classic. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-29, at 8:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a > phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer > spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et > al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving >> my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things >> happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily >> angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More >> cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate >> finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database >> application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>>>>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>>>>>> screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 13:52:35 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:52:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Sub Query Assistance Requested In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F705B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F705B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: Chester, Try SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count],EngArea FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID, EngArea FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))) Group by EngArea; On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Kaup, Chester < Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com> wrote: > I have the following query that works correctly returning a result of 8 > > SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count] > FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID > FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A > WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))); > > I would also like to return the field EngArea from the table > [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] also. Would that be possible and if so > how? My attempts so far have failed. > > Result should be something like this > Active Flowing Count EngArea > 3 1 > 1 2 > 4 3 > > Thanks. > > Chester Kaup > Engineering Technician > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > Office (432) 688-3797 > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Nov 29 14:36:38 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:36:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians In-Reply-To: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> Message-ID: <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> And he made you laugh without using a single word of profanity, use of anything off-topic, and he didn't degrade or disrespect any member of the audience. Where have all the great comedians gone? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 02:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Haha I remember that one. A true classic. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-29, at 8:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a > phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer > spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et > al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving >> my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things >> happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily >> angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More >> cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate >> finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database >> application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>>>>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>>>>>> screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 29 16:03:27 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:03:27 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> References: , <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com>, <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> Message-ID: <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic http://goo.gl/KtZIE From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Nov 29 16:14:35 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:14:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sub Query Assistance Requested In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F705B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F722C@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Thanks. Perfect. That got it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack drawbridge Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 1:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Sub Query Assistance Requested Chester, Try SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count],EngArea FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID, EngArea FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))) Group by EngArea; On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Kaup, Chester < Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com> wrote: > I have the following query that works correctly returning a result of 8 > > SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count] > FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID > FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A > WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))); > > I would also like to return the field EngArea from the table > [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] also. Would that be possible and if so > how? My attempts so far have failed. > > Result should be something like this > Active Flowing Count EngArea > 3 1 > 1 2 > 4 3 > > Thanks. > > Chester Kaup > Engineering Technician > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > Office (432) 688-3797 > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Tue Nov 29 16:30:25 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:30:25 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians In-Reply-To: <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> Message-ID: <003701ccaee6$7eee7690$7ccb63b0$@activebilling.com.au> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF4qii8S3gw very clever -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, 30 November 2011 7:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians And he made you laugh without using a single word of profanity, use of anything off-topic, and he didn't degrade or disrespect any member of the audience. Where have all the great comedians gone? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 02:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Haha I remember that one. A true classic. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-29, at 8:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had > a phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a > programmer spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, > etc., for C# et al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently >> imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My >>> Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am >>> programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to >>> my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on >>>> multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating >> with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices >>>>> use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be >> waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make >> things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter >> or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and >> then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. >> More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. >> Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or >> database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard >> and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone >>>>>>> through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV >>>>>>> monitors, table screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Nov 29 17:21:37 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:21:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com>, <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> PowerBasic is quite a powerful package. It's incredibly important to see that given the other dev environments...dot-net, java, Ruby, php, etc.... It has never gained "traction". From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Nov 29 18:59:27 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:59:27 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians In-Reply-To: <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com><72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> Message-ID: <8D0568C0EFD64420B49534A890FB856C@HAL9007> Nowhere. They're all on You Tube. :) R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians And he made you laugh without using a single word of profanity, use of anything off-topic, and he didn't degrade or disrespect any member of the audience. Where have all the great comedians gone? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 02:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Haha I remember that one. A true classic. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-29, at 8:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had > a phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a > programmer spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, > etc., for C# et al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently >> imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My >>> Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am >>> programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to >>> my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on >>>> multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating >> with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices >>>>> use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be >> waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make >> things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter >> or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and >> then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. >> More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. >> Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or >> database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard >> and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone >>>>>>> through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV >>>>>>> monitors, table screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 06:03:43 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:03:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <6F72D2FEBC464D60B6B7FFF2D2DDACE5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6F72D2FEBC464D60B6B7FFF2D2DDACE5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED61B9F.1070106@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL. Best whacky definition I have seen in ages. Virtual documents: What happens when the system dies and you have no backups John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 2:26 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I think that what happens when you don't do your backups and the system > crashes and then everything you lost is a virtual document. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 5:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > fine resolution of > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > precision with a > fingertip? > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Darryl -- >> >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >> >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 06:29:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:29:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> Message-ID: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you really need that? No. One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point with > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very powerful > thing. > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is buttons. > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > consumer electronics is going. > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on a > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with your > finger). > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. I > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. And > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > keyboard on a touch screen. > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > built into the desktop. > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you make > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > fine resolution of > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > precision with a > fingertip? > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Darryl -- >> >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >> >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 06:32:56 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:32:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED62278.3040000@colbyconsulting.com> You laugh but this is already happening. People with disabilities who cannot speak normally can train their computers to recognize whatever their "equivalent" sound may be to mean a word or phrase. Thus you could indeed make up your own sound for a curly bracket or open paren or whatever. Remember the star treck movie where scotty picks up the mouse and tries to speak into it? Ignoring for a moment why he would even have a concept of a microphone that you had to pick up and hold to your face to speak into... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 11:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a > phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer > spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et > al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby: >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving >> my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things >> happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily >> angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More >> cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate >> finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database >> application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>>>>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>>>>>> screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 06:43:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:43:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com>, <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) You do? I never realized! ;) John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > > Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > > http://goo.gl/KtZIE > > From steve at goodhall.info Wed Nov 30 07:50:44 2011 From: steve at goodhall.info (Steve Goodhall) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:50:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a matter of scaling. Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP -----Original message----- From: jwcolby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you really need that? No. One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point with > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very powerful > thing. > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is buttons. > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > consumer electronics is going. > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on a > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with your > finger). > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. I > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. And > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > keyboard on a touch screen. > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > built into the desktop. > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you make > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > fine resolution of > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > precision with a > fingertip? > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Darryl -- >> >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >> >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 08:07:29 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:07:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, Message-ID: <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another > keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > > keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Nov 30 09:12:17 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:12:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another > keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > > keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 30 09:25:20 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:25:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> References: , <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com>, <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> Message-ID: <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. Web Development ? Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or Desktop development. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 09:55:20 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:55:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> Message-ID: I use align a lot by rubber banding controls and align horizontal, vertical, equal spacing, etc. That's because there's no magnify in design view which I really wish there was. Would make things so much easier. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From steve at goodhall.info Wed Nov 30 10:16:26 2011 From: steve at goodhall.info (Steve Goodhall) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:16:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> Message-ID: <396fba1e-c77d-484e-b69b-3436da4be89b@blur> Wouldn't it be easier just to set the Left, Top, Width and Height properties either manually or programmatically? I do this all the time in other languages. It's generally what .NET does with your designer settings anyway. Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP -----Original message----- From: Rocky Smolin To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 15:56:59 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 I use align a lot by rubber banding controls and align horizontal, vertical, equal spacing, etc. That's because there's no magnify in design view which I really wish there was. Would make things so much easier. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 10:26:21 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:26:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <396fba1e-c77d-484e-b69b-3436da4be89b@blur> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <396fba1e-c77d-484e-b69b-3436da4be89b@blur> Message-ID: Oh, I do that a lot as well. If I've put half a dozen buttons on a form or a bunch of text boxes and want to make them all the same width, I pick the one I like best, copy its width property, rubber band the rest and past. I use keyboard shortcuts for aligning though and it goes real fast. Alt-OAT aligns to top. Alt-OZE spaces equally horizontally, etc. I'm a mouseophobe. The less I use it the happier I am. It slows things down. And I use alt-Tab to toggle between design view and code. The one thing I'd like is a shortcut that would move the focus from the property sheet back to the form or report being designed. When I click on an event to create or edit the event module, then alt-Tab back to the form or report, the property sheet still has the focus. I have to click outside the property sheet - means using the mouse. A keyboard shortcut to do that would be nice. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com Skype: rocky.smolin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Goodhall Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Wouldn't it be easier just to set the Left, Top, Width and Height properties either manually or programmatically? I do this all the time in other languages. It's generally what .NET does with your designer settings anyway. Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP -----Original message----- From: Rocky Smolin To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 15:56:59 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 I use align a lot by rubber banding controls and align horizontal, vertical, equal spacing, etc. That's because there's no magnify in design view which I really wish there was. Would make things so much easier. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 10:38:22 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:38:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> Message-ID: <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another > keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > > keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 11:08:47 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:08:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. Doug On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) >> >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic >> >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE >> >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 11:12:43 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:12:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> Message-ID: <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Mark: Some people believe that Cloud development will do exact that. Steve Jobs went so far as to announce, "The PC is dead." The understanding is that there will be no need for desktop type computers as where ever you go all you data and work capability will travel with you. All you will need is a dumb terminal like an iPad and you can go anywhere. Within major centers this scenario can work but once into the rural areas the desktop is still king and will be for the foreseeable future. This may very well be why Windows 8 was created with two UIs. One, when you are downtown and one when you are further out in the community. The Cloud is great as a remote hard drive, development platform and application host and coupled with full communication to the internet it is a potent back-end. For me the whole Cloud scenario is great but if I drive 20 miles, out of town, an iPad is almost useless, as internet communication and cell phone coverage is spotty at best and I had better have my laptop ready if I want to work with my office or programming applications...even if I am developing for the Cloud or Smartphones. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. Web Development ? Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or Desktop development. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 11:27:55 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:27:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com><4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> Sometimes the grid it too coarse to get the controls exactly where I want them. But again I use the keyboard - ctrl with an arrow nudges the control - and holding it down moves it continuously. I use that a lot. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Nov 30 11:34:11 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:34:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Aligning Controls (was: Windows 8) Message-ID: <002301ccaf86$460653c0$d212fb40$@comcast.net> I made a custom toolbar with the four alignment buttons. Very handy. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 11:35:44 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:35:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Don't you have swype available, John? It's in the Android OS, and I couldn't live without it. When I have to work with the virtual keyboard on my Nook ereader, I get very frustrated having to tap each letter separately! Charlotte Foust On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:29 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do > you really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or special > characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat fingertip to get > at a specific character to back space over... > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > >> Stuart, >> >> I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point >> with >> touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very >> powerful >> thing. >> >> Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. >> Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. >> >> I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's >> fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is >> buttons. >> Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, >> hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it >> will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. >> >> Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. >> Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function >> displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their >> function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where >> consumer electronics is going. >> >> When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on >> a >> keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with >> your >> finger). >> >> Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. >> I >> need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this >> emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. >> And >> not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really >> important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual >> keyboard on a touch screen. >> >> Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard >> built into the desktop. >> >> As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you >> really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only >> worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not >> getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you >> make >> them larger then the text they display; why is that? >> >> Jim. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com] >> On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM >> >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >> >> What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. >> >> If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the >> fine resolution of >> a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel >> precision with a >> fingertip? >> >> >> On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >> Darryl -- >>> >>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >>> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >>> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >>> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >>> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>> >>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >>> >> communication with them... >> >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 11:36:56 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:36:56 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Before I started developing Android apps in Eclipse, I was using appInventor, an online web development IDE. I hated it at first, the fact that you needed to be online to develop. I really miss it now that I am developing in Eclipse. I have to remember to back up the project to thumb drive to transport between home, work and school. Nothing worse than getting to your destination and realizing that the thumb drive is still plugged into the computer at home. Not to mention import/reference issues between locations. It is nice just to log into a site and have your project ready to continue where you left off. I love how Apple says the PC is dead, but you cannot compile an iOS app without a MAC laptop running Intel chipset. You can't compile on a Win PC, iPad or iPhone. Maybe that is about to change, God, I hope so. D On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Mark: > > Some people believe that Cloud development will do exact that. Steve Jobs > went so far as to announce, "The PC is dead." > > The understanding is that there will be no need for desktop type computers > as where ever you go all you data and work capability will travel with you. > All you will need is a dumb terminal like an iPad and you can go anywhere. > > Within major centers this scenario can work but once into the rural areas > the desktop is still king and will be for the foreseeable future. This may > very well be why Windows 8 was created with two UIs. One, when you are > downtown and one when you are further out in the community. > > The Cloud is great as a remote hard drive, development platform and > application host and coupled with full communication to the internet it is > a > potent back-end. > > For me the whole Cloud scenario is great but if I drive 20 miles, out of > town, an iPad is almost useless, as internet communication and cell phone > coverage is spotty at best and I had better have my laptop ready if I want > to work with my office or programming applications...even if I am > developing > for the Cloud or Smartphones. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:25 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development > > Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. > Web Development ? > Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. > > It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or > Desktop development. > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 11:38:18 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:38:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. Many of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it really shows. Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of their potential business because of it. A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not an artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and additional sales you get because of it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. Doug On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) >> >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic >> >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE >> >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 11:39:59 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:39:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> Message-ID: <51522143F8C84724A5D992643E75E913@creativesystemdesigns.com> Same here but sometimes I find myself turning my head horizontal to make sure everything is lined up. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Sometimes the grid it too coarse to get the controls exactly where I want them. But again I use the keyboard - ctrl with an arrow nudges the control - and holding it down moves it continuously. I use that a lot. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 12:28:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:28:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED675C4.6030601@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, and then there is data and bandwidth limits. My work is on data where I select records with gigabytes of data, select a few million, get those into csv files and email or ftp to a site. I move hundreds of gigs of data back and forth doing this just for a single order. So for the house hold pc perhaps, for companies, it seems unlikely. Someday of course (50 years from now?) all the data will just reside in the cloud, will be manipulated on systems in the cloud, and will be delivered to its destination in the cloud. But that won't happen until things get much more reliable and everyone understands how to do this "cloud thing". I get DVDs for crying out loud, with zip files, filled with data which I have to extract and get into the format I can use. I got 100 gigs of raw data in fixed width format on a dozen DVDs, and I have to pull that into SQL Server, strip out the padding spaces and get into real tables. And of course, relative to "Star Trek" kinds of systems we are still in the horse and buggy days. We have come a very long way in just the last 20 years in terms of infrastructure. Remember in 1990 when we were dialing up servers on modems and praying for 12 kbit connections? In 1999 (when I lived in Mexico) I was dialing into servers up in the US to do remote desktop (VNC). But as Jim says, "out in the country"... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/30/2011 12:12 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Mark: > > Some people believe that Cloud development will do exact that. Steve Jobs > went so far as to announce, "The PC is dead." > > The understanding is that there will be no need for desktop type computers > as where ever you go all you data and work capability will travel with you. > All you will need is a dumb terminal like an iPad and you can go anywhere. > > Within major centers this scenario can work but once into the rural areas > the desktop is still king and will be for the foreseeable future. This may > very well be why Windows 8 was created with two UIs. One, when you are > downtown and one when you are further out in the community. > > The Cloud is great as a remote hard drive, development platform and > application host and coupled with full communication to the internet it is a > potent back-end. > > For me the whole Cloud scenario is great but if I drive 20 miles, out of > town, an iPad is almost useless, as internet communication and cell phone > coverage is spotty at best and I had better have my laptop ready if I want > to work with my office or programming applications...even if I am developing > for the Cloud or Smartphones. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:25 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development > > Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. > Web Development ? > Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. > > It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or > Desktop development. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 12:30:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:30:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED67637.9020309@colbyconsulting.com> Apparently it is available but... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/30/2011 12:35 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Don't you have swype available, John? It's in the Android OS, and I > couldn't live without it. When I have to work with the virtual keyboard on > my Nook ereader, I get very frustrated having to tap each letter separately! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:29 AM, jwcolbywrote: > >>> As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do >> you really need that? No. >> >> One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, >> constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or special >> characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat fingertip to get >> at a specific character to back space over... >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> >>> Stuart, >>> >>> I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point >>> with >>> touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very >>> powerful >>> thing. >>> >>> Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. >>> Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. >>> >>> I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's >>> fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is >>> buttons. >>> Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, >>> hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it >>> will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. >>> >>> Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. >>> Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function >>> displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their >>> function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where >>> consumer electronics is going. >>> >>> When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on >>> a >>> keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with >>> your >>> finger). >>> >>> Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. >>> I >>> need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this >>> emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. >>> And >>> not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really >>> important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual >>> keyboard on a touch screen. >>> >>> Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard >>> built into the desktop. >>> >>> As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you >>> really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only >>> worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not >>> getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you >>> make >>> them larger then the text they display; why is that? >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com] >>> On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM >>> >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>> >>> What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. >>> >>> If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the >>> fine resolution of >>> a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel >>> precision with a >>> fingertip? >>> >>> >>> On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>> >>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >>>> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >>>> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >>>> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >>>> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >>>> >>> communication with them... >>> >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >> >> >> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 13:18:40 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:18:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: I seriously agree with that. Having been down that road and suffered its consequences, I have learned the lesson. I can write code; I can't sell ad-space; I have a web-site idea but the whole point is to find sponsors and I'm not good at that part of the equation. Nevertheless, I'm going to try. Tips and trickers for shoppers and programmers and various other alienated persons clickers and quickers and something else that rhymes with the New York Times A. From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 30 13:55:17 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:55:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> Message-ID: <8A3D8B03-6354-428D-9F44-662089B7DEFF@phulse.com> It's basically the same thing with different tools and a different platform, except concepts such as storage and such are now abstracted into another service layer. The same for the CPU and database, etc. Companies are basically just taking on the overwhelming cost of scaling and providing platforms for smaller business to base their web and infrastructure on. Other than that, its often just used as a Marketting lingo to loosely describe another form of whizzbang hosting for some specific service or other. Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 30 Nov 2011, at 07:25, "Mark Simms" wrote: > Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. > Web Development ? > Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. > > It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or > Desktop development. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 15:29:38 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 07:29:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> References: , <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net>, <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> Message-ID: <4ED6A042.27002.21E87A1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Cloud development = web development where you don't know where your code and data are. :-) -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 10:25, Mark Simms wrote: > Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. > Web Development ? > Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. > > It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or > Desktop development. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 15:38:35 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 07:38:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <396fba1e-c77d-484e-b69b-3436da4be89b@blur>, Message-ID: <4ED6A25B.339.226BB4E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Try Alt+Enter to display the property sheet and Alt+F4 to close it and return to the control in question -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:26, Rocky Smolin wrote: > The one thing I'd like is a shortcut that would move the focus from the > property sheet back to the form or report being designed. When I click on > an event to create or edit the event module, then alt-Tab back to the form > or report, the property sheet still has the focus. I have to click outside > the property sheet - means using the mouse. A keyboard shortcut to do that > would be nice. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 15:55:22 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 07:55:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: , , <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. Many > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > really shows. > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > their potential business because of it. > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not an > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > additional sales you get because of it. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > Doug > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > >> > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > >> > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > >> > >> > >> -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Nov 30 16:14:31 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 23:14:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic Message-ID: Hi Stuart Also, it's a marketing boo-boo to offer old versions at reduced prices. Who want's an old version? Name them instead something like silver, gold, platinum, and plutonium; or student (free of course), entry, basic, and pro - you know - and feature a comparison chart where you easily can see what you miss when buying a cheaper version. /gustav >>> stuart at lexacorp.com.pg 30-11-2011 22:55 >>> Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. Many > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > really shows. > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > their potential business because of it. > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not an > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > additional sales you get because of it. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > Doug > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > >> > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > >> > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 16:34:01 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:34:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Manning specials during December Message-ID: <08C5E4DE10D44F4A9D364BBB0C976CB3@SusanHarkins> I know some of you buy a lot of technical books, so I thought I'd pass this along. Susan H. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 30 16:45:41 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:45:41 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7E9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> " It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View" Originally coming from the world of XL where you can scale objects up to 400% and ensure everything is perfectly aligned etc, I find the Access Form Designer to be a giant PITA. Why on earth don't they build a zoom function in?? I will never know... *sigh* -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 1:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; > > consoles, hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. > > I don't doubt it will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch > > keyboard built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice > > down and only worry about getting into the general area of where > > they need to be and not getting to a specific pixel. Just consider > > command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 30 16:48:58 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:48:58 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7FB@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yes I use extensively use align - so much so that they are the first tool set I add to any custom toolbar Access, but often you want to do other things where Align is not suitable or the right tool. Sometimes you cannot beat zooming in to see exactly what is going on. I guess coming from a graphics background as well, I find these missing functions rather odd. Like undo with MS office product - what is with that???. Most software manages multiple levels of undo - even after saving. XL even today can barely manage undo in any useful and meaningful way.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 2:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Nov 30 17:36:51 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:36:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com><4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> Message-ID: <2C48F4FFE2824A5E976A662F11F1A70B@XPS> You do know you can change the grid right? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 12:28 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Sometimes the grid it too coarse to get the controls exactly where I want them. But again I use the keyboard - ctrl with an arrow nudges the control - and holding it down moves it continuously. I use that a lot. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 18:54:17 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:54:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> I guess that means; anonymous...without your name. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. Many > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > really shows. > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > their potential business because of it. > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not an > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > additional sales you get because of it. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > Doug > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > >> > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > >> > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > >> > >> > >> -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 19:10:26 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:10:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7E9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7E9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <1780838314E743B796E4C49C30534E26@HAL9007> What's XL? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 2:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 " It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View" Originally coming from the world of XL where you can scale objects up to 400% and ensure everything is perfectly aligned etc, I find the Access Form Designer to be a giant PITA. Why on earth don't they build a zoom function in?? I will never know... *sigh* -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 1:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; > > consoles, hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. > > I don't doubt it will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch > > keyboard built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice > > down and only worry about getting into the general area of where > > they need to be and not getting to a specific pixel. Just consider > > command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 19:21:31 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:21:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <2C48F4FFE2824A5E976A662F11F1A70B@XPS> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com><4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS><92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com><3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> <2C48F4FFE2824A5E976A662F11F1A70B@XPS> Message-ID: <1CEDE83EB1924B5796424DA323938699@HAL9007> No. One of the 75,000 things I have yet to learn about Access since I've only been using it for 15 years. :) R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 You do know you can change the grid right? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 12:28 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Sometimes the grid it too coarse to get the controls exactly where I want them. But again I use the keyboard - ctrl with an arrow nudges the control - and holding it down moves it continuously. I use that a lot. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 19:22:23 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 11:22:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: , <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No, anonymized as in - Details which could identify individuals removed. i.e. without identifying you or Doug or identifying what mailing list it was on. It was clearly from me. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 16:54, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I guess that means; anonymous...without your name. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. > > -- > Stuart > > On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. > Many > > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > > really shows. > > > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > > their potential business because of it. > > > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not > an > > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > > additional sales you get because of it. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > > > Doug > > > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby > wrote: > > > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > > :-) > > > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > >> > > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > > >> > > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dbdoug at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 19:34:20 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:34:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Good idea to pass on the criticism; hopefully he will take it as constructive... Doug On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > No, anonymized as in - Details which could identify individuals removed. > i.e. without identifying you or Doug or identifying what mailing list it > was on. > > It was clearly from me. > > -- > Stuart > > > On 30 Nov 2011 at 16:54, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > I guess that means; anonymous...without your name. ;-) > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:55 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > > > Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > > > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > > > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > > > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. > > Many > > > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > > > really shows. > > > > > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > > > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent > of > > > their potential business because of it. > > > > > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are > not > > an > > > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and > artist to > > > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > > > additional sales you get because of it. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > > > > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > > > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. > Multiple > > > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not > easy to > > > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > > > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > > > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on > it. > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby > > wrote: > > > > > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use > PowerBasic > > > :-) > > > > > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > > > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use > PowerBasic > > :-) > > > >> > > > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > > > >> > > > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd< > http://databaseadviso > > > rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 30 19:41:35 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 01:41:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <1780838314E743B796E4C49C30534E26@HAL9007> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7E9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <1780838314E743B796E4C49C30534E26@HAL9007> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF98A@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Sorry... Short hand for MS Excel. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 12:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 What's XL? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 2:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 " It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View" Originally coming from the world of XL where you can scale objects up to 400% and ensure everything is perfectly aligned etc, I find the Access Form Designer to be a giant PITA. Why on earth don't they build a zoom function in?? I will never know... *sigh* -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 1:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; > > consoles, hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. > > I don't doubt it will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch > > keyboard built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice > > down and only worry about getting into the general area of where > > they need to be and not getting to a specific pixel. Just consider > > command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 20:02:47 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:02:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <27A97464608E4078BCFF03C71C265060@creativesystemdesigns.com> Just checking. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic No, anonymized as in - Details which could identify individuals removed. i.e. without identifying you or Doug or identifying what mailing list it was on. It was clearly from me. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 16:54, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I guess that means; anonymous...without your name. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. > > -- > Stuart > > On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. > Many > > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > > really shows. > > > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > > their potential business because of it. > > > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not > an > > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > > additional sales you get because of it. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > > > Doug > > > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby > wrote: > > > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > > :-) > > > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > >> > > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > > >> > > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 1 10:56:19 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 08:56:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Text field not editable, weird issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I tried all of that, I even put debug.print statements in all of the control events and in various subs that were being called. I found that the condition would occur when the path was taken along the first half of the IF statement. I was able to replicate this problem on another computer using A2003. I changed the code to open a recordset, rather than selecting a row in the listbox and reading values from hidden columns and it now works. Looks like a bug in 2003 that was fixed in 2007. This code works: DoCmd.SetWarnings False Me.lstModelSumm.RowSource = "EXEC dbo.stpSelectTempMach 0" Me.lstPoResults.RowSource = "EXEC dbo.stpPurchasedMachinesByPO '" & Me.txtTranNo & "'" DoCmd.SetWarnings True Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset Set rs = New ADODB.Recordset 'Call the stored procedure, passing it the parameter, returning recordset rs CurrentProject.Connection.stpPurchasedMachinesByPO IIf(Nz(Me.txtTranNo, "") = "", 0, Me.txtTranNo), rs 'Fill in the fields from the returned recordset If Not rs.BOF And Not rs.EOF Then 'code below is the same as sub: PopulateFields Me.txtVendorCode = RTrim(Nz(rs![vendor_code], "")) Me.txtVendorName = Nz(rs![vendor_name], "") Me.txtTranDate = rs![po_date] Me.txtPoStatus = Nz(rs![po_status], "") Me.txtQty = Nz(rs![Qty], 0) Me.txtCostBasis = Nz(rs![CostBasis], 0) Me.txtModel = RTrim(Nz(rs![ItemNo], "")) Me.txtModelID = Nz(rs![ModelID], "") Me.cboLocationKey = CInt(Nz(rs![LocKeyID], "0")) Call cboLocationKey_Change Me.lstModelSumm.RowSource = "EXEC dbo.stpSelectTempMach 1" Me.cmdEnterSN.Enabled = CanAddAnotherMachine() Else 'No records were returned for given tran no MsgBox "The PO number you entered did not return any records", vbOKOnly, "Invalid PO" Call ClearEntryFields End If rs.Close Set rs = Nothing On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Is this the only user or just the only one having problems? Is there a > copy of the ADP on her box or is she accessing it from a network site? If > the app is on her machine, have you done a decompile and recompile on the > app? Once in a while breakpoints will get stuck and only recompiling will > get rid of them. If you comment out all the code in that routine but leave > the shell, does the application run without an error? Is the next control > in the tab order one of the two you're resetting the rowsource on? > > Charlotte Foust > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Tue Nov 1 14:00:44 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:00:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions References: Message-ID: All, I have a couple questions about Import/Export Specifications (Access 2007). Once a specification is set up, is there a way to change the spec other than making believe that you are setting up a new spec? Also, is it possible to get at the spec with VBA code? Thanks, Brad From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Tue Nov 1 14:30:06 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:30:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> Brad, The specs are located in system files MSysIMEXSpecs and MSysIMEXColumns. Since they are tables I suppose you can modify them but probably not easy and you may not be able to write to system files. The name of export Specs is located in the XSpecs table and the ID assigned, then the column definitions and spacing are in the XColumns table by ID number. I think if you look at them you will be able to easily identify what is going on. The ability to show how to un hide them is cleverly hidden by right clicking on the top of the Navigation page and selecting Navigation options. HTH Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:00 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions All, I have a couple questions about Import/Export Specifications (Access 2007). Once a specification is set up, is there a way to change the spec other than making believe that you are setting up a new spec? Also, is it possible to get at the spec with VBA code? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Tue Nov 1 15:16:39 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:16:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions In-Reply-To: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> References: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> Message-ID: I agree about the probable difficulty of modify the specs, but it's simple enough to do it manually. Just start a manual import as usual, select the import spec you want to modify, which does most of the hard work for you, and then make changes to it as needed. Finally save it with a different name with the 'Save As' button on the Import Specification dialog box. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 3:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions Brad, The specs are located in system files MSysIMEXSpecs and MSysIMEXColumns. Since they are tables I suppose you can modify them but probably not easy and you may not be able to write to system files. The name of export Specs is located in the XSpecs table and the ID assigned, then the column definitions and spacing are in the XColumns table by ID number. I think if you look at them you will be able to easily identify what is going on. The ability to show how to un hide them is cleverly hidden by right clicking on the top of the Navigation page and selecting Navigation options. HTH Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:00 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions All, I have a couple questions about Import/Export Specifications (Access 2007). Once a specification is set up, is there a way to change the spec other than making believe that you are setting up a new spec? Also, is it possible to get at the spec with VBA code? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Tue Nov 1 16:05:53 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:05:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions References: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> Message-ID: Bill and Lambert, Thanks for the help. You have answered my questions. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 3:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions I agree about the probable difficulty of modify the specs, but it's simple enough to do it manually. Just start a manual import as usual, select the import spec you want to modify, which does most of the hard work for you, and then make changes to it as needed. Finally save it with a different name with the 'Save As' button on the Import Specification dialog box. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 3:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions Brad, The specs are located in system files MSysIMEXSpecs and MSysIMEXColumns. Since they are tables I suppose you can modify them but probably not easy and you may not be able to write to system files. The name of export Specs is located in the XSpecs table and the ID assigned, then the column definitions and spacing are in the XColumns table by ID number. I think if you look at them you will be able to easily identify what is going on. The ability to show how to un hide them is cleverly hidden by right clicking on the top of the Navigation page and selecting Navigation options. HTH Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:00 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions All, I have a couple questions about Import/Export Specifications (Access 2007). Once a specification is set up, is there a way to change the spec other than making believe that you are setting up a new spec? Also, is it possible to get at the spec with VBA code? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Nov 1 19:45:58 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:45:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Import/Export Specifications - Basic questions In-Reply-To: References: <905B1B82D65943D5B84CFD96B7DB9EE4@BPCS> Message-ID: <00bd01cc98f8$ca088890$5e1999b0$@net> I've faced this same "pain": the import file gets changed (unknowingly) and now the import references gets all messed up....and of course, the entire system you built...crashes. Below is good advice. Modifying the system specs sounds easy...but IT IS NOT ! > Just start a manual import as usual, select the import spec you want to > modify, which does most of the hard work for you, and then make changes > to it as needed. Finally save it with a different name with the 'Save > As' button on the Import Specification dialog box. > From pedro at plex.nl Thu Nov 3 09:43:58 2011 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 09:43:58 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> Dear Group, how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". Data Uitv Sub Patient A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 Result Uitv Sub Unique Patient A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 Thanks Pedro Janssen From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Nov 3 04:00:06 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 10:00:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: Hi Pedro First use a query with DISTINCT to remove the double entries like A-ee-101. Then use this query as source in another query whery you group by Uitv and Sub and count Patient. /gustav >>> pedro at plex.nl 03-11-2011 09:43 >>> Dear Group, how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". Data Uitv Sub Patient A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 Result Uitv Sub Unique Patient A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 Thanks Pedro Janssen From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 11:49:07 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 09:49:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> Message-ID: SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > Dear Group, > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > Data > > Uitv Sub Patient > A ee 101 > A ee 101 > A ee 102 > A ff 201 > A gg 301 > B ee 201 > B ee 301 > B hh 501 > > > > Result > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > A ee 2 > A ff 1 > A gg 1 > B ee 2 > B hh 1 > > > Thanks > > Pedro Janssen > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 3 15:53:27 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 06:53:27 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, Message-ID: <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query first to get rid of the duplicates. On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > FROM tblSomeTable > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > > Dear Group, > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > Data > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > A ee 101 > > A ee 101 > > A ee 102 > > A ff 201 > > A gg 301 > > B ee 201 > > B ee 301 > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > Result > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > A ee 2 > > A ff 1 > > A gg 1 > > B ee 2 > > B hh 1 > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 16:07:43 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 14:07:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Only if UniquePatient is the field you're extracting. Just counting the records returned gives you the number of unique patients, and the unique combinations of Uitv and Sub are there in each record. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > > Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query > first to get rid of the > duplicates. > > On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > FROM tblSomeTable > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > > > Data > > > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > > A ee 101 > > > A ee 101 > > > A ee 102 > > > A ff 201 > > > A gg 301 > > > B ee 201 > > > B ee 301 > > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > > > > > Result > > > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > > A ee 2 > > > A ff 1 > > > A gg 1 > > > B ee 2 > > > B hh 1 > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 16:08:39 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 14:08:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable PKID Uitv Sub Patient ----------- ---- ---- ----------- 1 A ee 101 2 A ee 102 3 A ff 201 4 A gg 301 5 B ee 201 6 B ee 301 7 B hh 501 (7 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. I do not see how Jet would be different. David On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > > Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query > first to get rid of the > duplicates. > > On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > FROM tblSomeTable > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > > > Data > > > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > > A ee 101 > > > A ee 101 > > > A ee 102 > > > A ff 201 > > > A gg 301 > > > B ee 201 > > > B ee 301 > > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > > > > > Result > > > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > > A ee 2 > > > A ff 1 > > > A gg 1 > > > B ee 2 > > > B hh 1 > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From garykjos at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 16:18:00 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 16:18:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Well the original example had TWO A ee 101 records and I agree with Stuart that it would return 3 and not 2 for the simple group by with count in the same one. It needs a double query somehow, two group bys the first to eliminate the dups or a distinct to eliminate the dups lest you double count. Count will count ALL the records that it sees won't it? On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:08 PM, David McAfee wrote: > SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable > > PKID ? ? ? ?Uitv Sub ?Patient > ----------- ---- ---- ----------- > 1 ? ? ? ? ? A ? ?ee ? 101 > 2 ? ? ? ? ? A ? ?ee ? 102 > 3 ? ? ? ? ? A ? ?ff ? 201 > 4 ? ? ? ? ? A ? ?gg ? 301 > 5 ? ? ? ? ? B ? ?ee ? 201 > 6 ? ? ? ? ? B ? ?ee ? 301 > 7 ? ? ? ? ? B ? ?hh ? 501 > > (7 row(s) affected) > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > FROM tblSomeTable > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > Uitv Sub ?UniquePatient > ---- ---- ------------- > A ? ?ee ? 2 > A ? ?ff ? 1 > A ? ?gg ? 1 > B ? ?ee ? 2 > B ? ?hh ? 1 > > (5 row(s) affected) > > Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. > I do not see how Jet would be different. > > David > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >> That won't work, it will return 3 ? for A - ee. >> >> Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query >> first to get rid of the >> duplicates. >> >> On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: >> >> > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient >> > FROM tblSomeTable >> > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub >> > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: >> > >> > > Dear Group, >> > > >> > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". >> > > >> > > Data >> > > >> > > Uitv ? ?Sub ? ? Patient >> > > A ? ? ? ee ? ? ?101 >> > > A ? ? ? ee ? ? ?101 >> > > A ? ? ? ee ? ? ?102 >> > > A ? ? ? ff ? ? ?201 >> > > A ? ? ? gg ? ? ?301 >> > > B ? ? ? ee ? ? ?201 >> > > B ? ? ? ee ? ? ?301 >> > > B ? ? ? hh ? ? ?501 >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Result >> > > >> > > Uitv ? ?Sub ? ? Unique Patient >> > > A ? ? ? ee ? ? ? ?2 >> > > A ? ? ? ff ? ? ? ?1 >> > > A ? ? ? gg ? ? ? ?1 >> > > B ? ? ? ee ? ? ? ?2 >> > > B ? ? ? hh ? ? ? ?1 >> > > >> > > >> > > Thanks >> > > >> > > Pedro Janssen >> > > >> > > -- >> > > AccessD mailing list >> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 17:06:03 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 15:06:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I just tried it in Access and it works just like SQL Server. I can email you a zipped mdb On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > Well the original example had TWO A ee 101 records and I agree with > Stuart that it would return 3 and not 2 for the simple group by with > count in the same one. It needs a double query somehow, two group bys > the first to eliminate the dups or a distinct to eliminate the dups > lest you double count. Count will count ALL the records that it sees > won't it? > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:08 PM, David McAfee > wrote: > > SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable > > > > PKID Uitv Sub Patient > > ----------- ---- ---- ----------- > > 1 A ee 101 > > 2 A ee 102 > > 3 A ff 201 > > 4 A gg 301 > > 5 B ee 201 > > 6 B ee 301 > > 7 B hh 501 > > > > (7 row(s) affected) > > > > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > FROM tblSomeTable > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > Uitv Sub UniquePatient > > ---- ---- ------------- > > A ee 2 > > A ff 1 > > A gg 1 > > B ee 2 > > B hh 1 > > > > (5 row(s) affected) > > > > Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. > > I do not see how Jet would be different. > > > > David > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan >wrote: > > > >> That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > >> > >> Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct Query > >> first to get rid of the > >> duplicates. > >> > >> On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > >> > >> > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > >> > FROM tblSomeTable > >> > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > >> > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > >> > > >> > > >> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > >> > > >> > > Dear Group, > >> > > > >> > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > >> > > > >> > > Data > >> > > > >> > > Uitv Sub Patient > >> > > A ee 101 > >> > > A ee 101 > >> > > A ee 102 > >> > > A ff 201 > >> > > A gg 301 > >> > > B ee 201 > >> > > B ee 301 > >> > > B hh 501 > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Result > >> > > > >> > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > >> > > A ee 2 > >> > > A ff 1 > >> > > A gg 1 > >> > > B ee 2 > >> > > B hh 1 > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Thanks > >> > > > >> > > Pedro Janssen > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > AccessD mailing list > >> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > >> > -- > >> > AccessD mailing list > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Nov 3 17:25:05 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 23:25:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> Message-ID: <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> Pedro, I don't understand your example with the data provided. Could you please tell if you made some typos - especially: Why is the data "A ee 102" not listed or counted in the result, and why is the data "B ee 201" and "B ee 301" listed as a count of 2 in the result? IOW: What's defining a unique entity for the counting in your example: Uitv + Sub or Uitv + Sub + Patient? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af pedro at plex.nl Sendt: 3. november 2011 09:44 Til: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: [AccessD] unique patients Dear Group, how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". Data Uitv Sub Patient A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 Result Uitv Sub Unique Patient A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 Thanks Pedro Janssen -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 3 17:24:22 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 08:24:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, , Message-ID: <4EB31496.30547.4A0CBDE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> WIth the original dataset, not the cleansed one? -- Stuart On 3 Nov 2011 at 15:06, David McAfee wrote: > I just tried it in Access and it works just like SQL Server. > > I can email you a zipped mdb > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > > > Well the original example had TWO A ee 101 records and I agree with > > Stuart that it would return 3 and not 2 for the simple group by with > > count in the same one. It needs a double query somehow, two group > > bys the first to eliminate the dups or a distinct to eliminate the > > dups lest you double count. Count will count ALL the records that it > > sees won't it? > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:08 PM, David McAfee > > wrote: > > > SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable > > > > > > PKID Uitv Sub Patient > > > ----------- ---- ---- ----------- > > > 1 A ee 101 > > > 2 A ee 102 > > > 3 A ff 201 > > > 4 A gg 301 > > > 5 B ee 201 > > > 6 B ee 301 > > > 7 B hh 501 > > > > > > (7 row(s) affected) > > > > > > > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > > FROM tblSomeTable > > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > > > Uitv Sub UniquePatient > > > ---- ---- ------------- > > > A ee 2 > > > A ff 1 > > > A gg 1 > > > B ee 2 > > > B hh 1 > > > > > > (5 row(s) affected) > > > > > > Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. > > > I do not see how Jet would be different. > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan > > > > >wrote: > > > > > >> That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > > >> > > >> Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select > > >> Distinct Query first to get rid of the duplicates. > > >> > > >> On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > >> > > >> > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > >> > FROM tblSomeTable > > >> > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > >> > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Dear Group, > > >> > > > > >> > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > >> > > > > >> > > Data > > >> > > > > >> > > Uitv Sub Patient > > >> > > A ee 101 > > >> > > A ee 101 > > >> > > A ee 102 > > >> > > A ff 201 > > >> > > A gg 301 > > >> > > B ee 201 > > >> > > B ee 301 > > >> > > B hh 501 > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Result > > >> > > > > >> > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > >> > > A ee 2 > > >> > > A ff 1 > > >> > > A gg 1 > > >> > > B ee 2 > > >> > > B hh 1 > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Thanks > > >> > > > > >> > > Pedro Janssen > > >> > > > > >> > > -- > > >> > > AccessD mailing list > > >> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > > >> > -- > > >> > AccessD mailing list > > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gary Kjos > > garykjos at gmail.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 3 17:24:22 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 08:24:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, <4EB2FF47.19693.44D9053@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4EB31496.7808.4A0CC6A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You've changed the data set to suit your code, Essentially doing wht the suggested "pre-query" does. The original data was: A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 ... On 3 Nov 2011 at 14:08, David McAfee wrote: > SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable > > PKID Uitv Sub Patient > ----------- ---- ---- ----------- > 1 A ee 101 > 2 A ee 102 > 3 A ff 201 > 4 A gg 301 > 5 B ee 201 > 6 B ee 301 > 7 B hh 501 > > (7 row(s) affected) > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > FROM tblSomeTable > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > Uitv Sub UniquePatient > ---- ---- ------------- > A ee 2 > A ff 1 > A gg 1 > B ee 2 > B hh 1 > > (5 row(s) affected) > > Maybe in Access/Jet, but in TSQL, the grouping takes care of that. I > do not see how Jet would be different. > > David > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > > That won't work, it will return 3 for A - ee. > > > > Gustav's solution is the way I would do it - use a select Distinct > > Query first to get rid of the duplicates. > > > > On 3 Nov 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > > > SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient > > > FROM tblSomeTable > > > GROUP BY Uitv, Sub > > > ORDER BY Uitv, Sub > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:43 AM, wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > > > > > Data > > > > > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > > > A ee 101 > > > > A ee 101 > > > > A ee 102 > > > > A ff 201 > > > > A gg 301 > > > > B ee 201 > > > > B ee 301 > > > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Result > > > > > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > > > A ee 2 > > > > A ff 1 > > > > A gg 1 > > > > B ee 2 > > > > B hh 1 > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 3 17:35:46 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 08:35:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> Message-ID: <4EB31742.25998.4AB3CF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No typos, he wants the number of Unique patients having the same Uitv and Sub. A ee has three records, A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 but two unique patients, 101 and 102. Hence: A ee 2 Similary B ee has two unique patients 201 and 301, hence: B ee 2 -- Stuart On 3 Nov 2011 at 23:25, Asger Blond wrote: > Pedro, > I don't understand your example with the data provided. Could you > please tell if you made some typos - especially: Why is the data "A ee > 102" not listed or counted in the result, and why is the data "B ee > 201" and "B ee 301" listed as a count of 2 in the result? IOW: What's > defining a unique entity for the counting in your example: Uitv + Sub > or Uitv + Sub + Patient? Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af > pedro at plex.nl Sendt: 3. november 2011 09:44 Til: > accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: [AccessD] unique patients > > Dear Group, > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > Data > > Uitv Sub Patient > A ee 101 > A ee 101 > A ee 102 > A ff 201 > A gg 301 > B ee 201 > B ee 301 > B hh 501 > > > > Result > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > A ee 2 > A ff 1 > A gg 1 > B ee 2 > B hh 1 > > > Thanks > > Pedro Janssen > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 17:42:50 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 15:42:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <4EB31496.30547.4A0CBDE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <4EB31496.30547.4A0CBDE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Wow, my eyes or mind must have filtered that second line out when typing the records in. SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient PKID Uitv Sub Patient ----------- ---- ---- ----------- 1 A ee 101 8 A ee 101 2 A ee 102 3 A ff 201 4 A gg 301 5 B ee 201 6 B ee 301 7 B hh 501 (8 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient Uitv Sub Patient ---- ---- ----------- A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 (7 row(s) affected) --Either of these work the same, not sure which is faster/better: SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT DISTINCT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > WIth the original dataset, not the cleansed one? > > -- > Stuart > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Nov 3 18:12:12 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 00:12:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <4EB31742.25998.4AB3CF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net>, <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> <4EB31742.25998.4AB3CF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <2F0D334405F2453A8AD1967A00129D65@abpc> I see - thanks Stuart. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan Sendt: 3. november 2011 23:36 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] unique patients No typos, he wants the number of Unique patients having the same Uitv and Sub. A ee has three records, A ee 101 A ee 101 A ee 102 but two unique patients, 101 and 102. Hence: A ee 2 Similary B ee has two unique patients 201 and 301, hence: B ee 2 -- Stuart On 3 Nov 2011 at 23:25, Asger Blond wrote: > Pedro, > I don't understand your example with the data provided. Could you > please tell if you made some typos - especially: Why is the data "A ee > 102" not listed or counted in the result, and why is the data "B ee > 201" and "B ee 301" listed as a count of 2 in the result? IOW: What's > defining a unique entity for the counting in your example: Uitv + Sub > or Uitv + Sub + Patient? Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af > pedro at plex.nl Sendt: 3. november 2011 09:44 Til: > accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: [AccessD] unique patients > > Dear Group, > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > Data > > Uitv Sub Patient > A ee 101 > A ee 101 > A ee 102 > A ff 201 > A gg 301 > B ee 201 > B ee 301 > B hh 501 > > > > Result > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > A ee 2 > A ff 1 > A gg 1 > B ee 2 > B hh 1 > > > Thanks > > Pedro Janssen > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 18:32:43 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 16:32:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: <2F0D334405F2453A8AD1967A00129D65@abpc> References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net> <8280BFC7934D40358DC680AE2B4101A3@abpc> <4EB31742.25998.4AB3CF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <2F0D334405F2453A8AD1967A00129D65@abpc> Message-ID: You can do this in TSQL, but access doesn't allow it SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(DISTINCT Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > I see - thanks Stuart. > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan > Sendt: 3. november 2011 23:36 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: Re: [AccessD] unique patients > > No typos, he wants the number of Unique patients having the same Uitv and > Sub. > > A ee has three records, > > A ee 101 > A ee 101 > A ee 102 > > but two unique patients, 101 and 102. > > Hence: > A ee 2 > > Similary B ee has two unique patients 201 and 301, hence: > > B ee 2 > > -- > Stuart > > On 3 Nov 2011 at 23:25, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Pedro, > > I don't understand your example with the data provided. Could you > > please tell if you made some typos - especially: Why is the data "A ee > > 102" not listed or counted in the result, and why is the data "B ee > > 201" and "B ee 301" listed as a count of 2 in the result? IOW: What's > > defining a unique entity for the counting in your example: Uitv + Sub > > or Uitv + Sub + Patient? Asger > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af > > pedro at plex.nl Sendt: 3. november 2011 09:44 Til: > > accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: [AccessD] unique patients > > > > Dear Group, > > > > how can i query the unique patients, from "Uitv" and "Sub". > > > > Data > > > > Uitv Sub Patient > > A ee 101 > > A ee 101 > > A ee 102 > > A ff 201 > > A gg 301 > > B ee 201 > > B ee 301 > > B hh 501 > > > > > > > > Result > > > > Uitv Sub Unique Patient > > A ee 2 > > A ff 1 > > A gg 1 > > B ee 2 > > B hh 1 > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Nov 3 18:58:48 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 00:58:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients In-Reply-To: References: <201111030843.pA38hwtE009756@mailhostC.plex.net><4EB31496.30547.4A0CBDE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4480900DEA8F48FCB0796163F3E9C492@abpc> Excellent David! As to performance, testing the two queries in SQL Server shows the same execution plan (which doesn't necessarily mean that the plan and cost would be the same with a different and bigger dataset - but I would guess not). Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee Sendt: 3. november 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] unique patients Wow, my eyes or mind must have filtered that second line out when typing the records in. SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient PKID Uitv Sub Patient ----------- ---- ---- ----------- 1 A ee 101 8 A ee 101 2 A ee 102 3 A ff 201 4 A gg 301 5 B ee 201 6 B ee 301 7 B hh 501 (8 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient Uitv Sub Patient ---- ---- ----------- A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 (7 row(s) affected) --Either of these work the same, not sure which is faster/better: SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT DISTINCT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > WIth the original dataset, not the cleansed one? > > -- > Stuart > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 3 23:45:29 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 00:45:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/amd-to-ax-1400-workers-in-cost-cutting-move -2011-11-03 This really vindicates my "experience" recently with an AMD-approved motherboard vendor and AMD-approved BIOS vendor.....and AMD's own Radeon ATI graphics chipset vendor. The whole experience was "HBB" - Horrible Beyond Belief. Mostly software related...drivers...update software....chipset firmware.....and IMHO: A true symptom of all of the outsourcing going on. Low cost, and Low quality. AMD: Syanara...this is my last AMD build. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Thu Nov 3 23:56:50 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 04:56:50 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55CA841@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <> Your link didn't work. I think this is the correct one. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Friday, 4 November 2011 3:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun http://www.marketwatch.com/story/amd-to-ax-1400-workers-in-cost-cutting-move -2011-11-03 This really vindicates my "experience" recently with an AMD-approved motherboard vendor and AMD-approved BIOS vendor.....and AMD's own Radeon ATI graphics chipset vendor. The whole experience was "HBB" - Horrible Beyond Belief. Mostly software related...drivers...update software....chipset firmware.....and IMHO: A true symptom of all of the outsourcing going on. Low cost, and Low quality. AMD: Syanara...this is my last AMD build. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 4 06:53:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 07:53:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> Message-ID: <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> Mark, I'm confused. You had a bad experience with a build, which I can empathize with. However every motherboard vendor out there does 90% Intel stuff and 10% AMD stuff. Getting support from any vendor is a nightmare, Intel or AMD. In the end though it is mostly the MB vendor that is responsible for making drivers and such easily available for their product. The drivers themselves come from the chip vendor but the BIOS is the MB vendor's responsibility and the BIOS vendor's responsibility. It sounded to me as if had you gone with a "modern" motherboard to match your modern everything else you would likely never have had this HBB experience. I like AMD, but I do not consider myself a fanboy. I came very close to building an Intel i7 system this time around just because I needed performance. But I have built almost nothing but AMD over the years and I have never had a HBB experience. In fact IMO the experience has been getting better, especially in the video driver department. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/4/2011 12:45 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > http://www.marketwatch.com/story/amd-to-ax-1400-workers-in-cost-cutting-move > -2011-11-03 > This really vindicates my "experience" recently with an AMD-approved > motherboard vendor and AMD-approved BIOS vendor.....and AMD's own Radeon ATI > graphics chipset vendor. > The whole experience was "HBB" - Horrible Beyond Belief. > Mostly software related...drivers...update software....chipset > firmware.....and IMHO: > A true symptom of all of the outsourcing going on. > Low cost, and Low quality. > AMD: Syanara...this is my last AMD build. > > > From marksimms at verizon.net Fri Nov 4 09:30:24 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 10:30:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> Sorry John, but my experience with MSI and AMD were really quite different. They've got this Live Update function for BIOS and Driver updates....you click on a button and the stuff downloads and tells you what needs to be updated. Get this: It has no "Run now" feature...and no link to even tell you or take you to where the downloaded update file is located...I can't find it ! There's nothing to "click on". After my initial frustration, I had to laugh about this..... This is the kind of stuff that occurs with poor technical management and poor beta testing. I researched that motherboard and it got good reviews. I have not been able to update the BIOS because of the above, and I cannot update the SSD firmware either as this motherboard does not behave well with SSD drives...and I am NOT going to reinstall Win7 all over again just to accommodate AHCI mode of operation when in fact, no one has been able to tell me how much advantage over IDE it would achieve. I guess I am the "poster child" for a software guy trying to do hardware stuff. Heck, I should have hired you instead ! From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 4 10:28:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:28:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> Message-ID: <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, I don't sell that kind of service (for a reason!) I absolutely understand the frustration but I guess my point is that "I'm done with AMD" is kind of mis-directed. Each motherboard manufacturer is responsible for their web site (which you are having problems with) and providing updates for the bios, drivers and utilities. I can tell you from similar experiences that all the manufacturer web sites pretty much suck. I have done this ASUS for the last build and had the same experience - and ASUS is one of the big boys! But if you had bought an older Intel MB you probably would have hit that exact same brick wall. I do feel your pain though. If we don't have a lot of money to spend it is beyond frustrating to carefully research stuff only to hit these kinds of issues. And it is extremely disconcerting to be placed in such a situation. One of the things that is always recommended is to do the build as quickly as you can and within the 30 day period where you can send stuff back if it doesn't work. If this build were me I would be sending the MB back and moving to another mb. Maybe a different manufacturer, but definitely newer mb. My build experience is long and varied. The last non-laptop computer I purchased was 1989. I have built every single computer since then, and I have probably averaged at least one every couple of years. Or at least a major upgrade. As an example I built two "servers" back in 2004 for handling the SQL Server database client. The technology I could afford at the time was AMD 3800 (single core), 4 gigs RAM, Windows 2003 X32 and SQL Server 2000 X32. From there I upgraded the processor to dual core. I then replaced the motherboard and moved to a quad core, upgraded to Windows 2003 X64 and upgraded my memory to 8 gigs. Then I upgraded to 16 gigs. Last year I built an entirely new system with a dual socket AMD with only one 8 core processor (one socket populated) and 16 gigs of memory. Then 32 gigs of memory. Then populated the other socket with another 8 core chip and 32 gigs of memory. So I kind of do things piece meal as I can afford them. But clear in all of this is the concept of a modern AMD motherboard. The modern (at the time of build) motherboard allows me to upgrade the other pieces for several years. My experience over the years is that no system will last more than about 5 years *for our purposes*, after which I have needed to upgrade the power supply and motherboard, usually keeping the old processor and memory then upgrading those pieces later. This latest build was for my VM server, and I made the switch from DDR2 to DDR3 memory which required a new motherboard, but the AMD processor had a controller that "just worked" with the new DDR3 ram. The old processor "just worked" placing it into a brand new AM3+ motherboard. I just gave away my old AM2+ motherboard to Paul (my programmer) who built an Unraid server with it for his house. I tend to be able to "repurpose" my AMD systems for a long time handing them down to systems with lower requirements than my dev machines and servers. I like AMD for that reason. Intel (and I admit I don't have a ton of experience) seems to require more frequent motherboard / cpu changes. It feels like if you change the (Intel) processor you probably have to change the mb and if you change the mb you will probably have to change the processor. Anyway, all I can offer is my condolences. You seem to be stuck now. If you have any friends close by perhaps they could help you get your SSD updated? John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/4/2011 10:30 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Sorry John, but my experience with MSI and AMD were really quite different. > They've got this Live Update function for BIOS and Driver updates....you > click on a button and the stuff downloads and tells you what needs to be > updated. > Get this: It has no "Run now" feature...and no link to even tell you or take > you to where the downloaded update file is located...I can't find it ! > There's nothing to "click on". > After my initial frustration, I had to laugh about this..... > This is the kind of stuff that occurs with poor technical management and > poor beta testing. > > I researched that motherboard and it got good reviews. I have not been able > to update the BIOS because of the above, and I cannot update the SSD > firmware either as this motherboard does not behave well with SSD > drives...and I am NOT going to reinstall Win7 all over again just to > accommodate AHCI mode of operation when in fact, no one has been able to > tell me how much advantage over IDE it would achieve. > > I guess I am the "poster child" for a software guy trying to do hardware > stuff. > Heck, I should have hired you instead ! > > > From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri Nov 4 13:43:12 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 14:43:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <> Man, licensing costs must be killing you... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 11:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun LOL, I don't sell that kind of service (for a reason!) <> From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 4 16:38:46 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 07:38:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com>, <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com>, Message-ID: <4EB45B66.31477.99D6FF3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> What version numbers really mean: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/04/bofh_2011_episode_17/ From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 05:28:32 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 06:28:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. Arthur On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < Server database client. The > technology I could afford at the time was AMD 3800 (single core), 4 gigs > RAM, Windows 2003 X32 and > SQL Server 2000 X32. From there I upgraded the processor to dual core. I > then replaced the > motherboard and moved to a quad core, upgraded to Windows 2003 X64 and > upgraded my memory to 8 gigs. > Then I upgraded to 16 gigs. Last year I built an entirely new system with > a dual socket AMD with > only one 8 core processor (one socket populated) and 16 gigs of memory. > Then 32 gigs of memory. > Then populated the other socket with another 8 core chip and 32 gigs of > memory.>> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 5 09:06:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 10:06:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. LOL, I dream of winning the powerball just like the rest. I actually borrowed $5000 as a business loan from my mother to build the first two servers in 2004 in order to get this client. In the first 16 months I grossed 10K and I was beginning to wonder if this client was ever going to "pay off". I did everything on SQL Server completely manually and learned as I went. SSMS was my biggest "enemy" as I struggled to figure out how do do all this stuff. Understand that while I had recovered the cost of the hardware I was spending massive time "off the clock" learning how to do sql server and stuff. I was extremely broke at that point and when the client asked "can you do this" I said "YES I CAN!" but hadn't a clue how I was going to do it. I would bet I grossed about $10 an hour those first 16 months on that client's work. I got the client in the first place because his business was with a company that gave him bad service. He was "small potatoes" to this big service company and they would take days to give him counts and pass him from person to person within the company to service his account. It was the fact that I did all of that prep and gave the client immediate service that caused him to eventually give me all of the business that had been with this other company. In the next three years my gross from him increased 20K a year as I gave him what he needed and he placed more and more of his business with me. In addition to all that I took C# and have since designed a custom application to automate the tasks that I have to do for him. Now I actually bill for every hour spent and I even bill for "jobs" which take almost no manual labor. Over the years my client has directly paid about 50% of the direct costs of the servers. When I just didn't have the cash for $2K worth of raid controllers and disks I asked him to write a check for that and he did. I didn't have the cash for the new server so he paid the up front cost to build the machine. I later purchased additional memory, SSDS and such. Understand that in the end, the client pays for everything, since anything that I buy comes after I pay my bills. It wasn't hard to convince the client that his needs required more than a quad core and 16 gigs of memory. I am doing sql kind of stuff, performing where clauses on as many as 20 fields at a time on tens of millions of rows, and joining together tables with tens of millions of rows, in order to get result sets of millions of rows which get exported to disk as fixed width files and csv files. My poor quad core 16 gig machine was struggling! SQL Server is incredibly efficient and the more cores and the more memory you throw at it the faster it gets. By moving to compression I decreased the size on disk, decreased the disk I/O to get this stuff into memory and decreased the footprint of the data in memory so more stuff is loaded at a time, but you need processor power to do the decompression as the data is used in memory. 16 cores, 64 gigs and compression allows me to literally load all of the relevant fields for the tables I am working with and turn my system into an "in memory database". Even then it can take minutes to do some of the pieces of the processes I perform. >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. I would say that my client is solidly in that 1%, but I certainly am not. The machines I have are just a requirement of the work that I do, not an indicator of wealth. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/5/2011 6:28 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single > duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about > lately LOL. > > Arthur > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > >> <> Server database client. The >> technology I could afford at the time was AMD 3800 (single core), 4 gigs >> RAM, Windows 2003 X32 and >> SQL Server 2000 X32. From there I upgraded the processor to dual core. I >> then replaced the >> motherboard and moved to a quad core, upgraded to Windows 2003 X64 and >> upgraded my memory to 8 gigs. >> Then I upgraded to 16 gigs. Last year I built an entirely new system with >> a dual socket AMD with >> only one 8 core processor (one socket populated) and 16 gigs of memory. >> Then 32 gigs of memory. >> Then populated the other socket with another 8 core chip and 32 gigs of >> memory.>> >> >> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 09:16:33 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 10:16:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I hear ya! Welcome back to the 99% LOL. Now if I could only find such a client that would necessitate some serious hardware. Arthur On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:06 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. > > LOL, I dream of winning the powerball just like the rest. > > I actually borrowed $5000 as a business loan from my mother to build the > first two servers in 2004 in order to get this client. > > In the first 16 months I grossed 10K and I was beginning to wonder if this > client was ever going to "pay off". I did everything on SQL Server > completely manually and learned as I went. SSMS was my biggest "enemy" as > I struggled to figure out how do do all this stuff. > > Understand that while I had recovered the cost of the hardware I was > spending massive time "off the clock" learning how to do sql server and > stuff. I was extremely broke at that point and when the client asked "can > you do this" I said "YES I CAN!" but hadn't a clue how I was going to do > it. I would bet I grossed about $10 an hour those first 16 months on that > client's work. > > I got the client in the first place because his business was with a > company that gave him bad service. He was "small potatoes" to this big > service company and they would take days to give him counts and pass him > from person to person within the company to service his account. > > It was the fact that I did all of that prep and gave the client immediate > service that caused him to eventually give me all of the business that had > been with this other company. In the next three years my gross from him > increased 20K a year as I gave him what he needed and he placed more and > more of his business with me. > > In addition to all that I took C# and have since designed a custom > application to automate the tasks that I have to do for him. Now I > actually bill for every hour spent and I even bill for "jobs" which take > almost no manual labor. > > Over the years my client has directly paid about 50% of the direct costs > of the servers. When I just didn't have the cash for $2K worth of raid > controllers and disks I asked him to write a check for that and he did. I > didn't have the cash for the new server so he paid the up front cost to > build the machine. I later purchased additional memory, SSDS and such. > Understand that in the end, the client pays for everything, since anything > that I buy comes after I pay my bills. > > It wasn't hard to convince the client that his needs required more than a > quad core and 16 gigs of memory. I am doing sql kind of stuff, performing > where clauses on as many as 20 fields at a time on tens of millions of > rows, and joining together tables with tens of millions of rows, in order > to get result sets of millions of rows which get exported to disk as fixed > width files and csv files. My poor quad core 16 gig machine was struggling! > > SQL Server is incredibly efficient and the more cores and the more memory > you throw at it the faster it gets. By moving to compression I decreased > the size on disk, decreased the disk I/O to get this stuff into memory and > decreased the footprint of the data in memory so more stuff is loaded at a > time, but you need processor power to do the decompression as the data is > used in memory. 16 cores, 64 gigs and compression allows me to literally > load all of the relevant fields for the tables I am working with and turn > my system into an "in memory database". Even then it can take minutes to > do some of the pieces of the processes I perform. > > > >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. > > I would say that my client is solidly in that 1%, but I certainly am not. > The machines I have are just a requirement of the work that I do, not an > indicator of wealth. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 09:16:33 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 10:16:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB542F9.1000502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I hear ya! Welcome back to the 99% LOL. Now if I could only find such a client that would necessitate some serious hardware. Arthur On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:06 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. > > LOL, I dream of winning the powerball just like the rest. > > I actually borrowed $5000 as a business loan from my mother to build the > first two servers in 2004 in order to get this client. > > In the first 16 months I grossed 10K and I was beginning to wonder if this > client was ever going to "pay off". I did everything on SQL Server > completely manually and learned as I went. SSMS was my biggest "enemy" as > I struggled to figure out how do do all this stuff. > > Understand that while I had recovered the cost of the hardware I was > spending massive time "off the clock" learning how to do sql server and > stuff. I was extremely broke at that point and when the client asked "can > you do this" I said "YES I CAN!" but hadn't a clue how I was going to do > it. I would bet I grossed about $10 an hour those first 16 months on that > client's work. > > I got the client in the first place because his business was with a > company that gave him bad service. He was "small potatoes" to this big > service company and they would take days to give him counts and pass him > from person to person within the company to service his account. > > It was the fact that I did all of that prep and gave the client immediate > service that caused him to eventually give me all of the business that had > been with this other company. In the next three years my gross from him > increased 20K a year as I gave him what he needed and he placed more and > more of his business with me. > > In addition to all that I took C# and have since designed a custom > application to automate the tasks that I have to do for him. Now I > actually bill for every hour spent and I even bill for "jobs" which take > almost no manual labor. > > Over the years my client has directly paid about 50% of the direct costs > of the servers. When I just didn't have the cash for $2K worth of raid > controllers and disks I asked him to write a check for that and he did. I > didn't have the cash for the new server so he paid the up front cost to > build the machine. I later purchased additional memory, SSDS and such. > Understand that in the end, the client pays for everything, since anything > that I buy comes after I pay my bills. > > It wasn't hard to convince the client that his needs required more than a > quad core and 16 gigs of memory. I am doing sql kind of stuff, performing > where clauses on as many as 20 fields at a time on tens of millions of > rows, and joining together tables with tens of millions of rows, in order > to get result sets of millions of rows which get exported to disk as fixed > width files and csv files. My poor quad core 16 gig machine was struggling! > > SQL Server is incredibly efficient and the more cores and the more memory > you throw at it the faster it gets. By moving to compression I decreased > the size on disk, decreased the disk I/O to get this stuff into memory and > decreased the footprint of the data in memory so more stuff is loaded at a > time, but you need processor power to do the decompression as the data is > used in memory. 16 cores, 64 gigs and compression allows me to literally > load all of the relevant fields for the tables I am working with and turn > my system into an "in memory database". Even then it can take minutes to > do some of the pieces of the processes I perform. > > > >I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about lately LOL. > > I would say that my client is solidly in that 1%, but I certainly am not. > The machines I have are just a requirement of the work that I do, not an > indicator of wealth. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > > From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 5 09:26:40 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 10:26:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance servers is very valuable. However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation running Vista. After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge waste....especially if you've got an SSD. > Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single > duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about > lately LOL. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Nov 5 09:50:54 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 07:50:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FREE! Query Optimizer eBook and SQL Prompt trial Message-ID: <8A00F47ACBF34238821DAE14333B68F3@HAL9007> FYI http://www.red-gate.com/products/sql-development/sql-prompt/entrypage/sql-qu ery-optimizer-ebook?utm_source=dbw &utm_medium=email&utm_content=queryoptimizer1-20111106&utm_campaign=sqlpromp t From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 5 09:54:28 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 10:54:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> Message-ID: <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> I just replaced my Dell m90 laptop with a $600 Toshiba with an AMD A6-3650 quad core and 6 gigs of RAM. The laptop clocks the cores at around 1.4 g but they can automatically overclock up to about 2.1 g (I think). I then run a virtual machine server with a quad core AMD clocked at 3.3 g and each VM (there are three main VMs) is given a single core and anywhere from 3 gigs to 6 gigs of ram. I have a vmDev virtual machine which has 4 gigs and both Paul and I do our development on that machine, simultaneously, using remote desktop to get at the vm. So a single 3.3 g core and 4 gigs is adequately supporting two developers. I can if I want do my dev directly on my laptop, and the 4 cores are noticeably faster but not enough to make me prefer that to working in vmDev. > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge waste....especially if you've got an SSD. Or a gaming machine. If you were developing big C# programs then more memory would help. At the price of memory today I think 8 gigs is the new norm for development. An SSD also makes an enormous difference though. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/5/2011 10:26 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance > servers is very valuable. > However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core > processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. > I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation > running Vista. > After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even > that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. > I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY > SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge > waste....especially if you've got an SSD. > >> Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single >> duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about >> lately LOL. > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 09:57:23 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 10:57:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> Message-ID: I beg to differ. When running VirtualBox or Hyper-V or any similar product on a 64-bit OS, the more RAM the better. As a semi-retired person, I'm getting by with a mere 4GB and I run Ubuntu Linux as a VirtualBox VM while running Windows 7 as the main OS, and it works well even with only 4GB of RAM. My main problem is how to install an instance of Windows XP as a VM inside VirtualBox. On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance > servers is very valuable. > However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core > processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. > I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation > running Vista. > After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even > that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. > I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY > SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a > huge > waste....especially if you've got an SSD. > > > Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single > > duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about > > lately LOL. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 5 10:18:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 01:18:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com>, <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net>, <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB553B2.10335.D675AA3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I'd go with the 8 GB too, mainly for multiple VMs to test developments under different OS and Access versions -- Stuart On 5 Nov 2011 at 10:54, jwcolby wrote: > > > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM > is a huge waste....especially > if you've got an SSD. > > Or a gaming machine. If you were developing big C# programs then more > memory would help. At the price of memory today I think 8 gigs is the > new norm for development. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 5 11:12:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 12:12:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB56077.7050100@colbyconsulting.com> Did you know that Windows 7 can use an SSD as ready boost? If you are using the SSD as the boot drive and loading everything off of that this will not help, but I have an old 30 g SSD which I put out in one of my WMC systems (tv) and assigned part of it for ready boost and it makes everything much snappier. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/5/2011 10:54 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I just replaced my Dell m90 laptop with a $600 Toshiba with an AMD A6-3650 quad core and 6 gigs of > RAM. The laptop clocks the cores at around 1.4 g but they can automatically overclock up to about > 2.1 g (I think). I then run a virtual machine server with a quad core AMD clocked at 3.3 g and each > VM (there are three main VMs) is given a single core and anywhere from 3 gigs to 6 gigs of ram. > > I have a vmDev virtual machine which has 4 gigs and both Paul and I do our development on that > machine, simultaneously, using remote desktop to get at the vm. So a single 3.3 g core and 4 gigs is > adequately supporting two developers. I can if I want do my dev directly on my laptop, and the 4 > cores are noticeably faster but not enough to make me prefer that to working in vmDev. > > > Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge waste....especially > if you've got an SSD. > > Or a gaming machine. If you were developing big C# programs then more memory would help. At the > price of memory today I think 8 gigs is the new norm for development. > > An SSD also makes an enormous difference though. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/5/2011 10:26 AM, Mark Simms wrote: >> There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance >> servers is very valuable. >> However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core >> processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. >> I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation >> running Vista. >> After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even >> that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. >> I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY >> SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. >> Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a huge >> waste....especially if you've got an SSD. >> >>> Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single >>> duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about >>> lately LOL. >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 5 11:14:46 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 12:14:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> Message-ID: <4EB560F6.2080902@colbyconsulting.com> No one can know another's budget but (in the US anyway) 8 gigs of ram can be had for $40 on sale, $50 as a normal price. That is a pretty darned cheap upgrade. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/5/2011 10:57 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I beg to differ. When running VirtualBox or Hyper-V or any similar product > on a 64-bit OS, the more RAM the better. As a semi-retired person, I'm > getting by with a mere 4GB and I run Ubuntu Linux as a VirtualBox VM while > running Windows 7 as the main OS, and it works well even with only 4GB of > RAM. > > My main problem is how to install an instance of Windows XP as a VM inside > VirtualBox. > > On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> There is no question that John's talent for building these high performance >> servers is very valuable. >> However, for most workstations, I think anything beyond a dual core >> processor is a huge waste of CPU Cycles. >> I was at a client site on Friday working with a 3 year old workstation >> running Vista. >> After running a week or so with my poorly tuned AMD "Frankenbuild", even >> that Vista workstation was abjectly S L O W. >> I was shocked ! All of the gaming guys on the forums had been panning MY >> SYSTEM as slow, slow,slow. >> Unless you are building a server, I think anything over 4 gigs RAM is a >> huge >> waste....especially if you've got an SSD. >> >>> Meanwhile, we pensioners subsist with a mere 4 gigs of RAM and a single >>> duo-core processor. I guess JC's in that 1% we're hearing so much about >>> lately LOL. >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From bheid at sc.rr.com Sat Nov 5 11:57:02 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 12:57:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FREE! Query Optimizer eBook and SQL Prompt trial In-Reply-To: <8A00F47ACBF34238821DAE14333B68F3@HAL9007> References: <8A00F47ACBF34238821DAE14333B68F3@HAL9007> Message-ID: <001201cc9bdb$f0e62720$d2b27560$@sc.rr.com> We use SQL prompt at work (along with several other RedGate tools. I like it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2011 10:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] FREE! Query Optimizer eBook and SQL Prompt trial FYI http://www.red-gate.com/products/sql-development/sql-prompt/entrypage/sql-qu ery-optimizer-ebook?utm_source=dbw &utm_medium=email&utm_content=queryoptimizer1-20111106&utm_campaign=sqlpromp t -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 5 16:29:05 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 17:29:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows can be so much fun In-Reply-To: <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <002701cc9711$c8f37b60$5ada7220$@net> <4EAD8D1E.4000206@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cc973e$b9e06840$2da138c0$@net> <4EADB1B8.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> <001101cc9753$b42e3a70$1c8aaf50$@net> <4EADE17D.1070205@colbyconsulting.com> <001801cc9772$e68f7910$b3ae6b30$@net> <4EAE0F47.5060601@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9aac$9488fdc0$bd9af940$@net> <4EB3D229.2050904@colbyconsulting.com> <000701cc9afe$4b04acb0$e10e0610$@net> <4EB404A5.1080504@colbyconsulting.com> <000a01cc9bc6$ef8432b0$ce8c9810$@net> <4EB54E24.9090104@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <004501cc9c01$f277f570$d767e050$@net> Sorry, I should have QUALIFIED this....REAL MACHINE ONLY... Virtual Machine set-up ? Definitely needs much more than 4 gigs...probably 4GB PER VM ! And John got exactly my point: SSD means less DRAM needed. > I just replaced my Dell m90 laptop with a $600 Toshiba with an AMD A6- > 3650 quad core and 6 gigs of > RAM. The laptop clocks the cores at around 1.4 g but they can > automatically overclock up to about > 2.1 g (I think). I then run a virtual machine server with a quad core > AMD clocked at 3.3 g and each > VM (there are three main VMs) is given a single core and anywhere from > 3 gigs to 6 gigs of ram. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 13:55:24 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 14:55:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Q&Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think that I'm going back to Ludy's Piano Sonatas this afternoon. Sure beats TV! Three major hits. Well actually I got sidetracked momentarily by Opera. I'm at this moment listening to Luciano Pavarotti and I understand that young girls your age don't get it, and that's ok, I get it, and it's lonely out here but I can deal with it. Despite popular tastes, opera and string quartets live! Beyond their 200-year time-spans. Yes I love various groups such as Stones and Talking Heads and Clash, but taking the Long Picture, how many of their tunes are going to be played in 100 years? That's the basic definition of classic music, like it or not. One cannot predict the future, one can only guess. That admitted, here are some of my guesses, of music that will be played in 2013. 1. M2O: Miss America. That record will live on and on and on and on. 2. The Beatles: The White Album. That's the best record they ever did. 3. Miles Davis: Kind of Blue. With his transcription of "Concierto de Aranjuez" he got all the love and sorrow all perfectly right. 4. Uakti: Mapa and several subsequent CDs. This trio from Brazil is probably my favourite world-music group. 5, Swapan Chauduri, IMO the best tabla player that I have ever heard. In the company of G.S. Sachdev, this is music to die for. On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Audra Gonsalves wrote: > Hey you - this dumb ass laptop that I am using keeps going down- guess > it's because his horney nephew used it all night - so going to give it a > break to cool down and then come back to your emails! > > miss and love you - so so miss you me > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 11:42:39 -0400 > Subject: Q&Q > From: fuller.artful at gmail.com > To: audragonsalves at hotmail.com > > > Almost time for Quirks and Quarks. I'm assuming that you at least have the > freedom to listen to cbc. Starts at 12pm and after that comes The Debaters! > So if possible, get near a radio and tune in to 99.1 FM. Bob McDonald has > some cool stuff this week, and the Debaters ditto. > > Used to be an expression, "I'm glued to the tube." In my case, and I'm not > alone in this, I'm glued to the radio. Weekends are the worst part of cbc > radio (I hate blues music and I'm way too tired of Randy Bachman's rock > music choices). Truth be told, I could live what remains of my life without > ever hearing another blues or R&R tune. At this point, I'm solely > interested in music that lasts, and that includes East Indian classical > music (remember when we went to see and speak with G.S. Sachdev and Swapan > Chaudhuri. and previous to that, Zakir Hussain?) > > Lately I'm on a re-acquaintance with the music of Ludwig van Beethoven. > It's so wonderful to hear him again. I have ignored him for decades, but > lately acquired and copied about a dozen CDs containing his magnificent > works. > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 6 16:24:44 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 22:24:44 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Q&Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D0FE6@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yes, I often wonder about that too. Which of today's tracks are going to be listened to, studied and reproduced in 200 years? Of course a lot of it used to come down to luck, what survived the years of fire, wars, fashion and chaos. Perhaps with digital storage that may less of a problem, or more likely (I fear), a real problem (what if the power went off tomorrow, how much IP and data would we instantly & permanently lose?). Anyway I digress. The other thing about some of the classical composers that amazes me was just how prodigious and consistent their output was. Sure the Beatles and stones had a few good albums, but look at Mozart's back catalogue just a one example... The hits keeps coming so to speak. Anyway, an interesting idea to think about. Am am pretty confident that hardly anything in the top 10 pop charts or any given week will be there in 5 years, let alone 200.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2011 5:55 AM To: Audra Gonsalves Subject: Re: [AccessD] Q&Q I think that I'm going back to Ludy's Piano Sonatas this afternoon. Sure beats TV! Three major hits. Well actually I got sidetracked momentarily by Opera. I'm at this moment listening to Luciano Pavarotti and I understand that young girls your age don't get it, and that's ok, I get it, and it's lonely out here but I can deal with it. Despite popular tastes, opera and string quartets live! Beyond their 200-year time-spans. Yes I love various groups such as Stones and Talking Heads and Clash, but taking the Long Picture, how many of their tunes are going to be played in 100 years? That's the basic definition of classic music, like it or not. One cannot predict the future, one can only guess. That admitted, here are some of my guesses, of music that will be played in 2013. 1. M2O: Miss America. That record will live on and on and on and on. 2. The Beatles: The White Album. That's the best record they ever did. 3. Miles Davis: Kind of Blue. With his transcription of "Concierto de Aranjuez" he got all the love and sorrow all perfectly right. 4. Uakti: Mapa and several subsequent CDs. This trio from Brazil is probably my favourite world-music group. 5, Swapan Chauduri, IMO the best tabla player that I have ever heard. In the company of G.S. Sachdev, this is music to die for. On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Audra Gonsalves wrote: > Hey you - this dumb ass laptop that I am using keeps going down- > guess it's because his horney nephew used it all night - so going to > give it a break to cool down and then come back to your emails! > > miss and love you - so so miss you me > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 11:42:39 -0400 > Subject: Q&Q > From: fuller.artful at gmail.com > To: audragonsalves at hotmail.com > > > Almost time for Quirks and Quarks. I'm assuming that you at least have > the freedom to listen to cbc. Starts at 12pm and after that comes The Debaters! > So if possible, get near a radio and tune in to 99.1 FM. Bob McDonald > has some cool stuff this week, and the Debaters ditto. > > Used to be an expression, "I'm glued to the tube." In my case, and I'm > not alone in this, I'm glued to the radio. Weekends are the worst part > of cbc radio (I hate blues music and I'm way too tired of Randy > Bachman's rock music choices). Truth be told, I could live what > remains of my life without ever hearing another blues or R&R tune. At > this point, I'm solely interested in music that lasts, and that > includes East Indian classical music (remember when we went to see and > speak with G.S. Sachdev and Swapan Chaudhuri. and previous to that, > Zakir Hussain?) > > Lately I'm on a re-acquaintance with the music of Ludwig van Beethoven. > It's so wonderful to hear him again. I have ignored him for decades, > but lately acquired and copied about a dozen CDs containing his > magnificent works. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pedro at plex.nl Mon Nov 7 14:47:52 2011 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 14:47:52 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: <201111071347.pA7DlqaZ029887@mailhostC.plex.net> Thanks David, i will try both solutions on the large dataset. I have missed the previous mailings on my topic, because of a holiday i set a stop on the mailings for accessd, and noticed it when i did not received any mailings. Where there any important mailings on this topic other then the ones below? Also the archives can't be consulted. Pedro Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 00:58:48 +0100 From: "Asger Blond" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: <4480900DEA8F48FCB0796163F3E9C492 at abpc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Excellent David! As to performance, testing the two queries in SQL Server shows the same execution plan (which doesn't necessarily mean that the plan and cost would be the same with a different and bigger dataset - but I would guess not). Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee Sendt: 3. november 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] unique patients Wow, my eyes or mind must have filtered that second line out when typing the records in. SELECT * FROM tblSomeTable ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient PKID Uitv Sub Patient ----------- ---- ---- ----------- 1 A ee 101 8 A ee 101 2 A ee 102 3 A ff 201 4 A gg 301 5 B ee 201 6 B ee 301 7 B hh 501 (8 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient ORDER BY Uitv, Sub, Patient Uitv Sub Patient ---- ---- ----------- A ee 101 A ee 102 A ff 201 A gg 301 B ee 201 B ee 301 B hh 501 (7 row(s) affected) --Either of these work the same, not sure which is faster/better: SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable GROUP BY Uitv, Sub, Patient) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) SELECT Uitv, Sub, COUNT(Patient) AS UniquePatient FROM (SELECT DISTINCT Uitv, Sub, Patient FROM tblSomeTable) A GROUP BY Uitv, Sub ORDER BY Uitv, Sub Uitv Sub UniquePatient ---- ---- ------------- A ee 2 A ff 1 A gg 1 B ee 2 B hh 1 (5 row(s) affected) On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > WIth the original dataset, not the cleansed one? > > -- > Stuart > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 7 07:58:43 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 14:58:43 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] unique patients Message-ID: Hi Pedro My suggestion was: First use a query with DISTINCT to remove the double entries like A-ee-101. Then use this query as source in another query whery you group by Uitv and Sub and count Patient. /gustav >>> pedro at plex.nl 07-11-2011 14:47 >>> Thanks David, i will try both solutions on the large dataset. I have missed the previous mailings on my topic, because of a holiday i set a stop on the mailings for accessd, and noticed it when i did not received any mailings. Where there any important mailings on this topic other then the ones below? Also the archives can't be consulted. Pedro From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon Nov 7 08:12:05 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 09:12:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Q&Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well I remember when I was just a kid my English teacher telling the class that there was just no way those Beatles chappies were ever going to last. 40 years later they are still highly popular, and not just with baby boomers. So who knows what we will be writing term papers about in another forty years. Lambert :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2011 2:55 PM To: Audra Gonsalves Subject: Re: [AccessD] Q&Q I think that I'm going back to Ludy's Piano Sonatas this afternoon. Sure beats TV! Three major hits. Well actually I got sidetracked momentarily by Opera. I'm at this moment listening to Luciano Pavarotti and I understand that young girls your age don't get it, and that's ok, I get it, and it's lonely out here but I can deal with it. Despite popular tastes, opera and string quartets live! Beyond their 200-year time-spans. Yes I love various groups such as Stones and Talking Heads and Clash, but taking the Long Picture, how many of their tunes are going to be played in 100 years? That's the basic definition of classic music, like it or not. One cannot predict the future, one can only guess. That admitted, here are some of my guesses, of music that will be played in 2013. 1. M2O: Miss America. That record will live on and on and on and on. 2. The Beatles: The White Album. That's the best record they ever did. 3. Miles Davis: Kind of Blue. With his transcription of "Concierto de Aranjuez" he got all the love and sorrow all perfectly right. 4. Uakti: Mapa and several subsequent CDs. This trio from Brazil is probably my favourite world-music group. 5, Swapan Chauduri, IMO the best tabla player that I have ever heard. In the company of G.S. Sachdev, this is music to die for. On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Audra Gonsalves wrote: > Hey you - this dumb ass laptop that I am using keeps going down- > guess it's because his horney nephew used it all night - so going to > give it a break to cool down and then come back to your emails! > > miss and love you - so so miss you me > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 11:42:39 -0400 > Subject: Q&Q > From: fuller.artful at gmail.com > To: audragonsalves at hotmail.com > > > Almost time for Quirks and Quarks. I'm assuming that you at least have > the freedom to listen to cbc. Starts at 12pm and after that comes The Debaters! > So if possible, get near a radio and tune in to 99.1 FM. Bob McDonald > has some cool stuff this week, and the Debaters ditto. > > Used to be an expression, "I'm glued to the tube." In my case, and I'm > not alone in this, I'm glued to the radio. Weekends are the worst part > of cbc radio (I hate blues music and I'm way too tired of Randy > Bachman's rock music choices). Truth be told, I could live what > remains of my life without ever hearing another blues or R&R tune. At > this point, I'm solely interested in music that lasts, and that > includes East Indian classical music (remember when we went to see and > speak with G.S. Sachdev and Swapan Chaudhuri. and previous to that, > Zakir Hussain?) > > Lately I'm on a re-acquaintance with the music of Ludwig van Beethoven. > It's so wonderful to hear him again. I have ignored him for decades, > but lately acquired and copied about a dozen CDs containing his > magnificent works. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 11:10:43 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 09:10:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Q&Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My kids would whine when I would play the Beatles in my car. Then the Beatles Rock Band game came out and they were tolerant of the music. We took them to go see the Beatles Love Show in Vegas in January and they loved it. They were asking to hear them on the drive home. ;) On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Heenan, Lambert < Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com> wrote: > Well I remember when I was just a kid my English teacher telling the class > that there was just no way those Beatles chappies were ever going to last. > 40 years later they are still highly popular, and not just with baby > boomers. So who knows what we will be writing term papers about in another > forty years. > > Lambert :-) > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 12:38:52 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 10:38:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg Message-ID: Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Mon Nov 7 12:45:40 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 07:45:40 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Rocky, What I used to use was the Prt Scr key into Paint, and crop what I wanted before copying and pasting into Word. Now with Windows 7 I use the snipping tool. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: >Dear List: > >When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports >into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word >doc manual. > >But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > >Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a >jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into >the reports section of my manual. > >Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > >MTIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >858-259-4334 >www.bchacc.com >www.e-z-mrp.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 12:46:43 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 10:46:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alt + Print Screen? On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports > into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word > doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a > jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them > into > the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 12:50:43 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 12:50:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you do print preview of the report and then capture the preview with the PRINT SCREEN key or ALT + PRINT SCREEN for just the active window you could then paste the screens into PAINT and then crop the image the way you want before saving as JPG. If you set your screen for a higher resolution you will get a better end result. GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports > into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word > doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a > jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into > the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 13:05:08 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:05:08 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: When I tried that before, the resolution wasn't high enough - limited by the screen res since it was essentially a screen capture. But that was under WXP. Different with W7? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of newsgrps Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Rocky, What I used to use was the Prt Scr key into Paint, and crop what I wanted before copying and pasting into Word. Now with Windows 7 I use the snipping tool. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: >Dear List: > >When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the >reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on >to the word doc manual. > >But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > >Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably >as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste >them into the reports section of my manual. > >Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > >MTIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >858-259-4334 >www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Mon Nov 7 13:09:41 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 08:09:41 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111107190943.BHXV28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Gary's solution may work - "If you set your screen for a higher resolution you will get a better end result." At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: >When I tried that before, the resolution wasn't high enough - limited by the >screen res since it was essentially a screen capture. But that was under >WXP. Different with W7? > >R > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of newsgrps >Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:46 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; 'Access Developers >discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg > >Rocky, > >What I used to use was the Prt Scr key into Paint, and crop what I wanted >before copying and pasting into Word. > >Now with Windows 7 I use the snipping tool. > >Regards > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >New Zealand > >At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >Dear List: > > > >When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > >reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on > >to the word doc manual. > > > >But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > > >Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > >as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste > >them into the reports section of my manual. > > > >Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > > >MTIA > > > >Rocky Smolin > >Beach Access Software > >858-259-4334 > >www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Nov 7 13:09:21 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:09:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out what is really going on. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 13:13:04 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:13:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35B7DC7082C4477AA1D08EA32AD45654@HAL9007> My screen set to 1920 x 1080 and the image is almost crisp enough but not quite. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg If you do print preview of the report and then capture the preview with the PRINT SCREEN key or ALT + PRINT SCREEN for just the active window you could then paste the screens into PAINT and then crop the image the way you want before saving as JPG. If you set your screen for a higher resolution you will get a better end result. GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 13:15:33 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:15:33 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: I use PrtScr (free) from http://www.fiastarta.com/PrtScr/ It allows you to select any area of the screen to copy, and you can set the default location, type, and quality of the file. Doug On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you > want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture > the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out > what is really going on. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports > into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word > doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a > jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them > into > the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 13:15:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:15:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: I remember now - I used Snagit before but it's on an old XP comp. Bit awkward at this point, but it'll get me there in a pinch. I was hoping maybe in the intervening 5 years something cheap and effective had been developed. I've got a good pdf printer but can't see a way to get it into my word doc. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out what is really going on. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 7 13:23:16 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:23:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <20111107184542.CHLF15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: 72 dpi is sort of the maximum with screen capturing, at least traditionally. I am not sure of a way around that or software that can or will capture a higher resolution unless it is reading straight off the video card not the monitor. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg When I tried that before, the resolution wasn't high enough - limited by the screen res since it was essentially a screen capture. But that was under WXP. Different with W7? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of newsgrps Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Rocky, What I used to use was the Prt Scr key into Paint, and crop what I wanted before copying and pasting into Word. Now with Windows 7 I use the snipping tool. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 8/11/2011, Rocky Smolin wrote: >Dear List: > >When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the >reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on >to the word doc manual. > >But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > >Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably >as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste >them into the reports section of my manual. > >Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > >MTIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >858-259-4334 >www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 13:33:30 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:33:30 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: here's a thread from December 2008 where you asked the same question. Unfortunately it refers to a message in the archives..... ------------------------------------------------------------ David: That was it. Thanks. I have it on my rig and tried it but couldn't seem to get it to work right. Got it all straightened out now. Getting old sucks. :) Best, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Beckles Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:50 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reports To File - Hide quoted text - Dear Rocky, I think that you are looking for Print to Picture. Take a look at: http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2006-November/047420.html David ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I remember now - I used Snagit before but it's on an old XP comp. ?Bit > awkward at this point, but it'll get me there in a pinch. ?I was hoping > maybe in the intervening 5 years something cheap and effective had been > developed. ?I've got a good pdf printer but can't see a way to get it into > my word doc. > > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:09 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you > want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture > the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out > what is really going on. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports > into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word > doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a > jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into > the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 13:39:02 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:39:02 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: There are virtual printer drivers that print to JPG.... http://code-industry.net/imageprinter.php GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > here's a thread from December 2008 where you asked the same question. > Unfortunately it refers to a message in the archives..... > ------------------------------------------------------------ > David: > > That was it. ?Thanks. ?I have it on my rig and tried it but couldn't seem to > get it to work right. Got it all straightened out now. ?Getting old sucks. > :) > > Best, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.e-z-mrp.com > www.bchacc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Beckles > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:50 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reports To File > > - Hide quoted text - > Dear Rocky, > I think that you are looking for Print to Picture. Take a look at: > http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2006-November/047420.html > > David > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> I remember now - I used Snagit before but it's on an old XP comp. ?Bit >> awkward at this point, but it'll get me there in a pinch. ?I was hoping >> maybe in the intervening 5 years something cheap and effective had been >> developed. ?I've got a good pdf printer but can't see a way to get it into >> my word doc. >> >> R >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:09 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if you >> want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will also capture >> the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into Google to find out >> what is really going on. >> >> Doug >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> Dear List: >> >> When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports >> into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word >> doc manual. >> >> But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. >> >> Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a >> jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into >> the reports section of my manual. >> >> Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? >> >> MTIA >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> 858-259-4334 >> www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 13:47:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:47:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: Per Gary's suggestion, I captured a screen put it into paint and save it as jpg. Pasted it into a word doc but it was fuzzy. Do you think this product will be better? I'm thinking it can't do better than the screen res. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg I use PrtScr (free) from http://www.fiastarta.com/PrtScr/ It allows you to select any area of the screen to copy, and you can set the default location, type, and quality of the file. Doug On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if > you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will > also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into > Google to find out what is really going on. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 14:02:55 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 12:02:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: <879A49D0D6424ACC8A22883F7FAB99AC@HAL9007> Oh, bummer - so close - "this version doesn't support 64 bit systems". :( Image Pro will do it however for $30. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg There are virtual printer drivers that print to JPG.... http://code-industry.net/imageprinter.php GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > here's a thread from December 2008 where you asked the same question. > Unfortunately it refers to a message in the archives..... > ------------------------------------------------------------ > David: > > That was it. ?Thanks. ?I have it on my rig and tried it but couldn't > seem to get it to work right. Got it all straightened out now. ?Getting old sucks. > :) > > Best, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.e-z-mrp.com > www.bchacc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David > Beckles > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:50 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reports To File > > - Hide quoted text - > Dear Rocky, > I think that you are looking for Print to Picture. Take a look at: > http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2006-November/047420.htm > l > > David > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------ > >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> I remember now - I used Snagit before but it's on an old XP comp. ? >> Bit awkward at this point, but it'll get me there in a pinch. ?I was >> hoping maybe in the intervening 5 years something cheap and effective >> had been developed. ?I've got a good pdf printer but can't see a way >> to get it into my word doc. >> >> R >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug >> Murphy >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:09 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if >> you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will >> also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into >> Google to find out what is really going on. >> >> Doug >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> Dear List: >> >> When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the >> reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them >> on to the word doc manual. >> >> But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. >> >> Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably >> as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can >> paste them into the reports section of my manual. >> >> Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? >> >> MTIA >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> 858-259-4334 >> www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 14:10:57 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:10:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: I just did it using IFRANVIEW instead of paint and the results looked pretty good. You have to have the report maximized on your screen when you do the grab though. The more pixels the better. I've got a pretty big monitor here so that helps I suppose. GK On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Per Gary's suggestion, I captured a screen put it into paint and save it as > jpg. ?Pasted it into a word doc but it was fuzzy. ?Do you think this product > will be better? ?I'm thinking it can't do better than the screen res. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:16 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > I use PrtScr (free) from > > http://www.fiastarta.com/PrtScr/ > > It allows you to select any area of the screen to copy, and you can set the > default location, type, and quality of the file. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > >> I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if >> you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will >> also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into >> Google to find out what is really going on. >> >> Doug >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg >> >> Dear List: >> >> When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the >> reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them >> on to the word doc manual. >> >> But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. >> >> Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably >> as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can >> paste them into the reports section of my manual. >> >> Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? >> >> MTIA >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> 858-259-4334 >> www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 7 15:22:28 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 07:22:28 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 7 15:42:38 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 22:42:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg Message-ID: Hi Rocky et al You are a little off-track here. First, JPG is for photos, not graphic arts with fonts. Second, don't write the reports to the screen, write to an image printer like: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer which will print not near-perfect but perfect images in, say, TIFF format or another bitmap format. Use a resolution that will allow you to scale the image of the report to match the resolution of the pages of your manual. We did that back in 1994 using a fax printer that saved the reports to bitmap files suitable for sending by fax. /gustav >>> rockysmolin at bchacc.com 07-11-2011 19:38 >>> Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 16:18:40 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:18:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 16:24:47 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:24:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1D68B1DDDDBC43AE832432EBE35AF6A9@HAL9007> The jpg format worked well 5 years ago when I did the manual. So I didn't really look any farther. Is that the same as Microsoft XPS Document Writer? Trying it now - creates a file in .xps format. But then how to get it into Word? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Hi Rocky et al You are a little off-track here. First, JPG is for photos, not graphic arts with fonts. Second, don't write the reports to the screen, write to an image printer like: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer which will print not near-perfect but perfect images in, say, TIFF format or another bitmap format. Use a resolution that will allow you to scale the image of the report to match the resolution of the pages of your manual. We did that back in 1994 using a fax printer that saved the reports to bitmap files suitable for sending by fax. /gustav >>> rockysmolin at bchacc.com 07-11-2011 19:38 >>> Dear List: When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them on to the word doc manual. But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 7 16:29:46 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:29:46 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <013101cc9d80$c17644b0$4462ce10$@cox.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D430E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Don't use paint would be my first suggestion. I have never found it satisfactory with quality. Oddly I usually use XL first as my picture editing tool. Why Excel? 1: You already have XL 2: XL has gobs of room to move stuff around 3: Excel has tabs you can build put many photos in one workbook, or many objects etc. 4: You can visually show in the print margins in the worksheet and then resize or crop the picture to fit the print size - handy. 5: You can add text, arrows, circle and other objects if you want and then save them as a single picture. To convert to a screen grab to a jpg you can just copy and paste as picture. If you have added other objects as well as your screenshot then press F5 (Goto), choose the "Special..." button, select objects. Then copy all the objects and paste as picture. Nice :) I also recommend irfanview (free) as a decent picture editor Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 6:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Per Gary's suggestion, I captured a screen put it into paint and save it as jpg. Pasted it into a word doc but it was fuzzy. Do you think this product will be better? I'm thinking it can't do better than the screen res. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg I use PrtScr (free) from http://www.fiastarta.com/PrtScr/ It allows you to select any area of the screen to copy, and you can set the default location, type, and quality of the file. Doug On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > I use Snagit which will save the capture to an open Word document if > you want. Costs a few $ but is a great documentation tool. It will > also capture the text as text from Error dialogs so I can plug into > Google to find out what is really going on. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Nov 7 17:07:48 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 15:07:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> Not sure what the problem is but I have the free version of inrfranview running on a 64 bit machine. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 7 17:28:29 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 23:28:29 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5399@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Ditto, I have it running on two different W7 64 Bit machines without issue. That was just the standard free download too from memory. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Not sure what the problem is but I have the free version of inrfranview running on a 64 bit machine. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Nov 7 17:30:38 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 15:30:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for something that should be simple. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Mon Nov 7 17:49:11 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:49:11 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> Message-ID: <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> I couldn't agree more, Doug. Snagit is fantastic. I just did a rough tally up, and I reckon I have used Snagit already about 10 times today. Converted some PDFs to JPGs and put them into a document. Converted some EPSs to PNGs, made transparent backgrounds and tweaked some colours. Re-jigged and re-sized some logos. Captured and annotated some screen shots to assist with some customer support. I don't know how I'd live without it. :) Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for something that should be simple. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 7 17:51:11 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 09:51:11 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> References: , , <017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> Message-ID: <4EB86EEF.22769.1989D0CC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Irfanview does the same sort of thing and is free for personal use. I use it all the time. On 7 Nov 2011 at 15:30, Doug Murphy wrote: > If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money > ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full > screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, > highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you > want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a > little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to > do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, > edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for > something that should be simple. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg > > That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit > version is $30. > > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] > Report To jpg > > IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. > > Otherwise: > Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from > http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ > > -- > Stuart > > On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > > on to the word doc manual. > > > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, > > probably as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that > > I can paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Mon Nov 7 17:56:37 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:56:37 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <92A32D8A28D748A59BEA9DB7EE6D53A8@stevelaptop> Sorry, in my enthusiasm I forget the main point I wanted to make here. :) Back to Rocky's original question, with Snagit you don't open the report preview, and then capture a screen shot. Well, you could, and that would give good results. But Snagit also acts as a printer driver, so best and easiest is to just print the report directly to Snagit, and then you can do what you want with it and save it to whatever image format you want. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Steve Schapel Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg I couldn't agree more, Doug. Snagit is fantastic. I just did a rough tally up, and I reckon I have used Snagit already about 10 times today. Converted some PDFs to JPGs and put them into a document. Converted some EPSs to PNGs, made transparent backgrounds and tweaked some colours. Re-jigged and re-sized some logos. Captured and annotated some screen shots to assist with some customer support. I don't know how I'd live without it. :) Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for something that should be simple. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Nov 7 18:08:31 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 03:08:31 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Message-ID: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> Hi All -- Somehow I can't get the subj working properly. How do you make MS Excel workbook recalculation/charts redrawn implemented there using VBA Automation without SendKeys - could you please post a VBA code snippet? I would like to 1) set MS Excel option of Automatic formulas recalculation off on MS Excel start-up, then; 2) open existing workbook with formulas and charts; 3) get backend db data retrieved into one or more worksheets, which cells are referred in formulas and charts; 4) run recalculation of whole workbook; 5) save workbook 6) set Automatic recalculation option back to its default 'Auto' value... I d not know how to make (1),(6) and(4) working via Automation. Please advise. Thank you. -- Shamil From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 7 18:22:24 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 00:22:24 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... In-Reply-To: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5421@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hi Samil In Excel VBA you need to use the following. You might need to set the excel application first in Access VBA, depending on how you are calling Excel. If you are using an Excel Template, you can just put then xlCalcManual code in the workbook open event instead. 1: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual 4: Application.Calculate or Application.CalculateFull 6: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationAutomatic Now you can either call them from Access VBA or for Excel VBA, depending on how you are controlling XL. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 11:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi All -- Somehow I can't get the subj working properly. How do you make MS Excel workbook recalculation/charts redrawn implemented there using VBA Automation without SendKeys - could you please post a VBA code snippet? I would like to 1) set MS Excel option of Automatic formulas recalculation off on MS Excel start-up, then; 2) open existing workbook with formulas and charts; 3) get backend db data retrieved into one or more worksheets, which cells are referred in formulas and charts; 4) run recalculation of whole workbook; 5) save workbook 6) set Automatic recalculation option back to its default 'Auto' value... I d not know how to make (1),(6) and(4) working via Automation. Please advise. Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 18:26:45 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 16:26:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <017401cc9da2$1143f1b0$33cbd510$@cox.net> Message-ID: <3401A7D5921C44E99DDD3DEDA1C85B51@HAL9007> Oh I was referring to the Image Writer. I've got Irfan - terrific program. But won't work because of screen res - even at 1920 it's a little too fuzzy. I've resurrected Snag It from an old machine and am struggling through generating the reports. Thanks to all Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 3:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg Not sure what the problem is but I have the free version of inrfranview running on a 64 bit machine. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 7 18:28:25 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 16:28:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Report To jpg In-Reply-To: <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <0C6AA3743B114C2C9B9B916DD1CD63FD@HAL9007> Agree. Using an old copy now. Save to jpegs. In Word Insert-->Picture-->From File, in it comes. Rotate, resize and Walla. R -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg If time is worth anything for the $50 Snagit costs you would be money ahead and have a professional tool that supports capture of full screen, sections, scrolling screen, editing of capture for annotation, highlighting, whatever and then saving in whatever image format you want. When I moved to Windows 7 I used the Snipping Tool thing for a little while but all you could do was grab an image. If you wanted to do anything to it then you had to save, open up in another program, edit and then put in your document. Way too much time and effort for something that should be simple. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg That might do except it doesn't run on 64 bit systems. The 64 bit version is $30. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report To jpg IrfanView if screen resolution is good enough. Otherwise: Microsoft Office Document Image Writer or ImagePrinter from http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/ -- Stuart On 7 Nov 2011 at 10:38, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > When I last wrote my product manual I had some way of getting the > reports into the manual - captured the pages somehow and pasted them > on to the word doc manual. > > But I can't for the life of me remember how I did it. > > Anyway I need a way to take these reports, and capture them, probably > as a jpg, because I need pretty high res and color, so that I can > paste them into the reports section of my manual. > > Does anyone have a slick way of doing this? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Nov 8 06:16:09 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:16:09 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5421@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5421@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <52B52AC0C97E4A8DA128712A581A312F@nant> Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. MS Excel has also a "sub-option" for 'Manual' recalculation mode: "Recalculate Workbook before saving". I would like it to be switched off by VBA code - and I can't find how. Also even with 'Manual' recalculation mode set manually, and "Recalculate Workbook before saving" set manually to false, when workbook is closed and reopened it gets all its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn - and I wanted to suppress that "automatism" completely. Do know how to do that? Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I could be out of this forum for a couple of days... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: 8 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:22 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi Samil In Excel VBA you need to use the following. You might need to set the excel application first in Access VBA, depending on how you are calling Excel. If you are using an Excel Template, you can just put then xlCalcManual code in the workbook open event instead. 1: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual 4: Application.Calculate or Application.CalculateFull 6: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationAutomatic Now you can either call them from Access VBA or for Excel VBA, depending on how you are controlling XL. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 11:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi All -- Somehow I can't get the subj working properly. How do you make MS Excel workbook recalculation/charts redrawn implemented there using VBA Automation without SendKeys - could you please post a VBA code snippet? I would like to 1) set MS Excel option of Automatic formulas recalculation off on MS Excel start-up, then; 2) open existing workbook with formulas and charts; 3) get backend db data retrieved into one or more worksheets, which cells are referred in formulas and charts; 4) run recalculation of whole workbook; 5) save workbook 6) set Automatic recalculation option back to its default 'Auto' value... I d not know how to make (1),(6) and(4) working via Automation. Please advise. Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 13:04:37 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:04:37 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project Message-ID: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows application project that can be distributed that has a single table of address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely users will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 tables). Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this job?) Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 13:14:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 14:14:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 2:04 PM, newsgrps wrote: > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows application project that > can be distributed that has a single table of address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 > tables). > > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am unsure about the database > part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both of these seem overkill in this > situation - likely users will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 tables). > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution what would be a suitable > solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool > for this job?) > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 13:24:26 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 11:24:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for testing/learning. As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of your computer if you have an older/slower computer. You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no support for forms). You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for you. As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb if you prefer. You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access as the FE. A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). HTH, David On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely users > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 > tables). > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this job?) > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 13:31:24 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:31:24 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <20111108193128.ITIA15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks John, Would 50 fields (mixture of text and numbers) and 200 records be considered small? Not having dealt with XML before, would the idea be to load the table at the beginning of a session and then save it at the end (or at regular intervals)? David At 9/11/2011, jwcolby wrote: >For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > >John W. Colby >Colby Consulting > >Reality is what refuses to go away >when you do not believe in it > >On 11/8/2011 2:04 PM, newsgrps wrote: >>This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >> >>I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple >>windows application project that >>can be distributed that has a single table of address information >>(perhaps being expanded to up to 5 >>tables). >> >>My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok >>but I am unsure about the database >>part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both >>of these seem overkill in this >>situation - likely users will not have either of these installed >>and it seems crazy to include >>runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up >>to 5 tables). >> >>Assuming that a similar application was created for actual >>distribution what would be a suitable >>solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot >>net application not the right tool >>for this job?) >> >> >>Regards >> >>David Emerson >>Dalyn Software Ltd >>Wellington, New Zealand From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 13:36:10 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:36:10 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks David, I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was thinking more of the end users and what they would need. Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed will installing Jet cause problems? David At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for >testing/learning. > >As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only >allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and >dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of >your computer if you have an older/slower computer. > >You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no >support for forms). > >You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to >check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for >you. > > >As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb if >you prefer. >You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access >as the FE. >A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although >you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). > >HTH, >David > > > >On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > > > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows > > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of > > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > > > > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am > > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server > > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely users > > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 > > tables). > > > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > this job?) > > > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 14:05:38 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:05:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: According to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Jet_Database_Engine Jet has been included in every version of Windows from Windows 2000 to Windows 7, and therefore is no longer distributed separately with the Microsoft Data Access Components(MDAC). On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks David, > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed > will installing Jet cause problems? > > David > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for >> testing/learning. >> >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. >> >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no >> support for forms). >> >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for >> you. >> >> >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb >> if >> you prefer. >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access >> as the FE. >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). >> >> HTH, >> David >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: >> >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >> > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple >> windows >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). >> > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I >> am >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL >> Server >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely >> users >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 >> > tables). >> > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this >> job?) >> > >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > David Emerson >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 14:54:55 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:54:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: My last employer used Access or SQL Server backends for their commercial .Net product. Access was included for those clients who weren't ready to go full-blown SQL Server. There was no reason for Access to be installed on the machines at all because the Jet engine was already there and that's all that was required. Charlotte Foust On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks David, > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed > will installing Jet cause problems? > > David > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for >> testing/learning. >> >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. >> >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no >> support for forms). >> >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for >> you. >> >> >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb >> if >> you prefer. >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access >> as the FE. >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). >> >> HTH, >> David >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: >> >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >> > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple >> windows >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). >> > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I >> am >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL >> Server >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely >> users >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 >> > tables). >> > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this >> job?) >> > >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > David Emerson >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 15:10:32 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 10:10:32 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111108193617.HCXE28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111108211043.PNVI15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks. Looks like I have no excuse not to jump into the world of dot net :-) At 9/11/2011, Charlotte Foust wrote: >My last employer used Access or SQL Server backends for their commercial >.Net product. Access was included for those clients who weren't ready to >go full-blown SQL Server. There was no reason for Access to be installed >on the machines at all because the Jet engine was already there and that's >all that was required. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > > Thanks David, > > > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was > > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed > > will installing Jet cause problems? > > > > David > > > > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for > >> testing/learning. > >> > >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only > >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and > >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of > >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. > >> > >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no > >> support for forms). > >> > >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to > >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for > >> you. > >> > >> > >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb > >> if > >> you prefer. > >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access > >> as the FE. > >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although > >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). > >> > >> HTH, > >> David > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: > >> > >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > >> > > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple > >> windows > >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of > >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > >> > > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I > >> am > >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL > >> Server > >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely > >> users > >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 > >> > tables). > >> > > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this > >> job?) > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > > >> > David Emerson > >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> > Wellington, New Zealand From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 15:15:16 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 07:15:16 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Arghh! I just about lost my breakfast there. :) -- Stuart On 8 Nov 2011 at 14:14, jwcolby wrote: > For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 15:17:14 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 07:17:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108211043.PNVI15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, , <20111108211043.PNVI15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB99C5A.4470.1E233D9A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Other than the fact that it's a bloated PITA and there are much better development environments out there? :-) -- Stuart On 9 Nov 2011 at 10:10, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks. Looks like I have no excuse not to jump into the world of dot net :-) > > At 9/11/2011, Charlotte Foust wrote: > >My last employer used Access or SQL Server backends for their commercial > >.Net product. Access was included for those clients who weren't ready to > >go full-blown SQL Server. There was no reason for Access to be installed > >on the machines at all because the Jet engine was already there and that's > >all that was required. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > > > > Thanks David, > > > > > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. I was > > > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > > > > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > > > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access installed > > > will installing Jet cause problems? > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > > > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for > > >> testing/learning. > > >> > > >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it only > > >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than installing and > > >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life out of > > >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. > > >> > > >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no > > >> support for forms). > > >> > > >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper to > > >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install it for > > >> you. > > >> > > >> > > >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use an mdb > > >> if > > >> you prefer. > > >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using Access > > >> as the FE. > > >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime (although > > >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). > > >> > > >> HTH, > > >> David > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > >> > > >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > >> > > > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple > > >> windows > > >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single table of > > >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > > >> > > > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I > > >> am > > >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use SQL > > >> Server > > >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - likely > > >> users > > >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include > > >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 > > >> > tables). > > >> > > > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this > > >> job?) > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Regards > > >> > > > >> > David Emerson > > >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > > >> > Wellington, New Zealand > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From kismert at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 15:23:33 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:23:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project Message-ID: > > newsgrps: > ... > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this job?) > > David, Consider SQLite: http://www.sqlite.org/ They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers -Ken From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 15:32:17 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 10:32:17 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> And the reasons for the near hasty exit of your early morning culinary delights? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 9/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >Arghh! > >I just about lost my breakfast there. :) > >-- >Stuart >On 8 Nov 2011 at 14:14, jwcolby wrote: > > > For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 15:36:15 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:36:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB99C5A.4470.1E233D9A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111108211043.PNVI15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB99C5A.4470.1E233D9A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: But tell us how you really feel, Stuart! ;-> Charlotte Foust On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Other than the fact that it's a bloated PITA and there are much better > development > environments out there? :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 Nov 2011 at 10:10, newsgrps wrote: > > > Thanks. Looks like I have no excuse not to jump into the world of dot > net :-) > > > > At 9/11/2011, Charlotte Foust wrote: > > >My last employer used Access or SQL Server backends for their commercial > > >.Net product. Access was included for those clients who weren't ready > to > > >go full-blown SQL Server. There was no reason for Access to be > installed > > >on the machines at all because the Jet engine was already there and > that's > > >all that was required. > > > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > > > >On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, newsgrps wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks David, > > > > > > > > I am familiar with SQL and have 2000, 2005 and 2008 all installed. > I was > > > > thinking more of the end users and what they would need. > > > > > > > > Interesting concept about the Access back end. Does anyone have any > > > > information on installing jet? If a user already have Access > installed > > > > will installing Jet cause problems? > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > At 9/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > > > > > >> You could always load SSCE (SQL Server Compact Edition) for > > > >> testing/learning. > > > >> > > > >> As it is actually designed for compact devices (iPAQs/Phones) , it > only > > > >> allows one connection, but it is much less complicated than > installing and > > > >> dealing with full version SQL Server. It also doesn't suck the life > out of > > > >> your computer if you have an older/slower computer. > > > >> > > > >> You can think of it as installing JET and the SDF as an MDB (with no > > > >> support for forms). > > > >> > > > >> You can you ClickOnce for deployment and even create a bootstrapper > to > > > >> check if SQL Server (or SSCE) is installed, if not it will install > it for > > > >> you. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> As for an actual program that you have to distribute, you can use > an mdb > > > >> if > > > >> you prefer. > > > >> You don't need the Access runtime unless you are planning on using > Access > > > >> as the FE. > > > >> A .Net app can connect to the mdb back end without the runtime > (although > > > >> you WILL need Jet installed, but that shouldn't be an issue). > > > >> > > > >> HTH, > > > >> David > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:04 AM, newsgrps > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. > > > >> > > > > >> > I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple > > > >> windows > > > >> > application project that can be distributed that has a single > table of > > > >> > address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables). > > > >> > > > > >> > My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok > but I > > > >> am > > > >> > unsure about the database part. I have seen examples which use > SQL > > > >> Server > > > >> > or Access but both of these seem overkill in this situation - > likely > > > >> users > > > >> > will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to > include > > > >> > runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were > up to 5 > > > >> > tables). > > > >> > > > > >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual > distribution > > > >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > > >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > this > > > >> job?) > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Regards > > > >> > > > > >> > David Emerson > > > >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > > > >> > Wellington, New Zealand > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 8 16:13:16 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (newsgrps) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 11:13:16 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks - more food for thought (lets hope Stuart doesn't choke on this one:-).) At 9/11/2011, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > > > > newsgrps: > > ... > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > this job?) > > > > >David, > >Consider SQLite: >http://www.sqlite.org/ > >They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): >http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers > >-Ken >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 16:19:09 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:19:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Suggesting XML files as a substitute for a database. That is one of the worst possible uses of the "non-solution to a non-problem" called XML -- Stuart On 9 Nov 2011 at 10:32, newsgrps wrote: > And the reasons for the near hasty exit of your early morning > culinary delights? > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > > At 9/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >Arghh! > > > >I just about lost my breakfast there. :) > > > >-- > >Stuart > >On 8 Nov 2011 at 14:14, jwcolby wrote: > > > > > For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 16:23:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:23:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: , , <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB9ABD3.32419.1E5FAD5D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No, I heartily concur with that recommendation. SQLite is an excellent solution for single user applications with moderate data storage needs. -- Stuart On 9 Nov 2011 at 11:13, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks - more food for thought (lets hope Stuart doesn't choke on this one:-).) > > > At 9/11/2011, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > > > > > > newsgrps: > > > ... > > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > > this job?) > > > > > > > >David, > > > >Consider SQLite: > >http://www.sqlite.org/ > > > >They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): > >http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers > > > >-Ken > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 16:24:41 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:24:41 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: That's the reason that I started learning how to program Androids. WM7 dropped support for WinForms and SSCE. Stupid Stupid Stupid. They want developers to redo their apps in Silverlight and XML tables. Not! On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Suggesting XML files as a substitute for a database. > > That is one of the worst possible uses of the "non-solution to a > non-problem" called XML > > -- > Stuart > > > On 9 Nov 2011 at 10:32, newsgrps wrote: > > > And the reasons for the near hasty exit of your early morning > > culinary delights? > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand > > > > At 9/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > >Arghh! > > > > > >I just about lost my breakfast there. :) > > > > > >-- > > >Stuart > > >On 8 Nov 2011 at 14:14, jwcolby wrote: > > > > > > > For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > > > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 16:55:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:55:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108193128.ITIA15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> <20111108193128.ITIA15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB9B375.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> Oh yea, performance on any modern computer would be instantaneous with that little data. It wouldn't scale well though. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 2:31 PM, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks John, > > Would 50 fields (mixture of text and numbers) and 200 records be considered small? > > Not having dealt with XML before, would the idea be to load the table at the beginning of a session > and then save it at the end (or at regular intervals)? > > David > > At 9/11/2011, jwcolby wrote: >> For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/8/2011 2:04 PM, newsgrps wrote: >>> This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >>> >>> I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple windows application project that >>> can be distributed that has a single table of address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 >>> tables). >>> >>> My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok but I am unsure about the database >>> part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both of these seem overkill in this >>> situation - likely users will not have either of these installed and it seems crazy to include >>> runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up to 5 tables). >>> >>> Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution what would be a suitable >>> solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool >>> for this job?) >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> David Emerson >>> Dalyn Software Ltd >>> Wellington, New Zealand > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 16:57:22 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:57:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB97F7F.6030106@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EB9B3D2.6040705@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL. I hear ya, I am not a proponent of XML, however for tiny solutions and in particular for learning stuff it works just fine. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 4:15 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Arghh! > > I just about lost my breakfast there. :) > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 16:59:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:59:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4EB9B43B.6060302@colbyconsulting.com> The nice thing is that you can often switch data stores with minimal code change. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 5:13 PM, newsgrps wrote: > Thanks - more food for thought (lets hope Stuart doesn't choke on this one:-).) > > > At 9/11/2011, Kenneth Ismert wrote: >> > >> > newsgrps: >> > ... >> > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution >> > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these >> > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for this job?) >> > >> > >> David, >> >> Consider SQLite: >> http://www.sqlite.org/ >> >> They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): >> http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers >> >> -Ken >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 8 16:59:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:59:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB99BE4.17679.1E21703D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <20111108213224.PGTB28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EB9B465.2000100@colbyconsulting.com> He didn't say a database he said a table. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/8/2011 5:19 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Suggesting XML files as a substitute for a database. > > That is one of the worst possible uses of the "non-solution to a non-problem" called XML > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 8 17:17:35 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 23:17:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... In-Reply-To: <52B52AC0C97E4A8DA128712A581A312F@nant> References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D5421@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <52B52AC0C97E4A8DA128712A581A312F@nant> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D6E04@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hi Shamil. If Excel is in automatic mode when the workbook is opened the calculation will take place before any VBA event fires, so you cannot prevent it. You can switch to manual calc in the workbook_open event but this happens after the workbook is open. If the problem is caused by opening a workbook in a later version of excel than the version that last calculated it, you can apply a registry fix. Note that Excel sets the calculation mode from the first workbook opened in a session: when you open two workbooks, one saved in manual mode and one saved in automatic mode, they will both have the calculation mode of the first workbook opened. So based on this there may be a kludge type workaround. That is to use code to open a blank workbook and set the calculation mode to manual, and then open your 2nd workbook. This should prevent the second workbook for auto calcing on open. I have not tested this, but it should work based on the info above. You can then set calc to manual in your 'real' workbook as part of the open event using Private Sub Workbook_Open() Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual End Sub I will keep poking around. Can you tell me which version of XL you will be using for this? Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 11:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. MS Excel has also a "sub-option" for 'Manual' recalculation mode: "Recalculate Workbook before saving". I would like it to be switched off by VBA code - and I can't find how. Also even with 'Manual' recalculation mode set manually, and "Recalculate Workbook before saving" set manually to false, when workbook is closed and reopened it gets all its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn - and I wanted to suppress that "automatism" completely. Do know how to do that? Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I could be out of this forum for a couple of days... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: 8 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:22 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get itsformulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi Samil In Excel VBA you need to use the following. You might need to set the excel application first in Access VBA, depending on how you are calling Excel. If you are using an Excel Template, you can just put then xlCalcManual code in the workbook open event instead. 1: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual 4: Application.Calculate or Application.CalculateFull 6: Application.Calculation = xlCalculationAutomatic Now you can either call them from Access VBA or for Excel VBA, depending on how you are controlling XL. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 11:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Forcing MS Excel workbook to get its formulas recalculated and charts redrawn using Automation... Hi All -- Somehow I can't get the subj working properly. How do you make MS Excel workbook recalculation/charts redrawn implemented there using VBA Automation without SendKeys - could you please post a VBA code snippet? I would like to 1) set MS Excel option of Automatic formulas recalculation off on MS Excel start-up, then; 2) open existing workbook with formulas and charts; 3) get backend db data retrieved into one or more worksheets, which cells are referred in formulas and charts; 4) run recalculation of whole workbook; 5) save workbook 6) set Automatic recalculation option back to its default 'Auto' value... I d not know how to make (1),(6) and(4) working via Automation. Please advise. Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 17:30:54 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 09:30:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB9B465.2000100@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111108190441.HHRM15195.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB9AADD.22695.1E5BEABB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4EB9B465.2000100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EB9BBAE.20364.1E9D9E9F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> He actually said: "single table of address information (perhaps being expanded to up to 5 tables)." Once you have 5 tables, you definitely have a database :-) -- Stuart On 8 Nov 2011 at 17:59, jwcolby wrote: > He didn't say a database he said a table. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/8/2011 5:19 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > Suggesting XML files as a substitute for a database. > > > > That is one of the worst possible uses of the "non-solution to a non-problem" called XML > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 8 17:42:30 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 09:42:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project In-Reply-To: <4EB9ABD3.32419.1E5FAD5D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <20111108221323.SDGQ28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <4EB9ABD3.32419.1E5FAD5D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EB9BE66.30901.1EA83B6B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> If you decide to go with SQLite, check out the SQLite manager add-on for Firefox, it is a great GUI tool for managing SQLite databases -- Stuart On 9 Nov 2011 at 8:23, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > No, I heartily concur with that recommendation. > > SQLite is an excellent solution for single user applications with moderate data storage needs. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 Nov 2011 at 11:13, newsgrps wrote: > > > Thanks - more food for thought (lets hope Stuart doesn't choke on this one:-).) > > > > > > At 9/11/2011, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > > > > > > > > newsgrps: > > > > ... > > > > Assuming that a similar application was created for actual distribution > > > > what would be a suitable solution for storing the data in these > > > > circumstances (or is a dot net application not the right tool for > > > this job?) > > > > > > > > > > >David, > > > > > >Consider SQLite: > > >http://www.sqlite.org/ > > > > > >They have a number of .NET wrappers (about 3/4 down): > > >http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers > > > > > >-Ken > > >-- > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Nov 9 03:29:06 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 13:29:06 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Forcing_MS_Excel_workbook_to_get=09itsformula?= =?utf-8?q?s=09recalculated_and_charts_redrawn_using_Automation=2E=2E=2E?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D6E04@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> <52B52AC0C97E4A8DA128712A581A312F@nant> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D6E04@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. I' m using MS Excel 2010. I'm working on C# Excel Automation custom solution (in principle/on conceptual COM technology level there is no any difference in coding C# or VBA MS Excel Automation). The task is to have MS Excel workbook opened, run calculations and saved. Easy of course. But workbook recalculations and charts redraw don't work properly/at all. I must note I do use OpenXML SDK 2.0 (http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=5124) to fill workbook's data in "Excel Automation free" mode - OpenXML SDK works with MS Excel workbooks on file/workbook's XML package level providing high level operations to manipulate worksheets cells' data, charts etc. After workbook's data is filled using open XML SDK I do use Automation to open workbook and to run calculations and charts redraw (Open XML SDK doesn't have functionality to run Excel calculations) - and that calculation and redraw do not work (well). It could be side-effect of using OpenXML SDK to fill workbook's data. I will work more on this issue and I will keep posting on my progress. It should be easy task, just missing something I guess... Opening MS Excel workbook using Automation, setting manual recalculation mode and related options are needed mainly for testing. Thank you. -- Shamil 09 ?????? 2011, 03:19 ?? Darryl Collins : > Hi Shamil. > > If Excel is in automatic mode when the workbook is opened the calculation will take place before any VBA event fires, so you cannot prevent it. > You can switch to manual calc in the workbook_open event but this happens after the workbook is open. > > If the problem is caused by opening a workbook in a later version of excel than the version that last calculated it, you can apply a registry fix. > > Note that Excel sets the calculation mode from the first workbook opened in a session: when you open two workbooks, one saved in manual mode and one saved in automatic mode, they will both have the calculation mode of the first workbook opened. > > So based on this there may be a kludge type workaround. That is to use code to open a blank workbook and set the calculation mode to manual, and then open your 2nd workbook. This should prevent the second workbook for auto calcing on open. I have not tested this, but it should work based on the info above. > > You can then set calc to manual in your 'real' workbook as part of the open event using > > Private Sub Workbook_Open() > Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual > End Sub > > I will keep poking around. Can you tell me which version of XL you will be using for this? > > Cheers > Darryl > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Nov 9 05:34:03 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 12:34:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Database for dot net project Message-ID: Hi David I would say that using XML is mostly for fun or if you need to exchange the data directly with "something else" that requires XML. Or if you somehow need manually to view or edit the data independently of your app, as this can be done with an XML tool like the simple and free XML Notepad from Microsoft. Only one file is used, thus all tables will be held in this, but records of these will be separated to fit the hierarchical structure your relations define. Thus, for example, records of order lines will be split to be stored with the orders they belong to, and the orders will again be split to fit the customers these belong to. You can then figure out that any saving of a record forces a rewrite of the full file. This, however, is very fast for small files. My recommendation would be to use the SQL Server Compact Edition. Only a small executable runs it, and SQL syntax is identical to its bigger brothers. Not that you need to write SQL - actually you should avoid it by using higher level coding like DataTables or EF (Entity Framework). Don't forget to sign up with our dba-VB list. /gustav >>> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz 08-11-2011 20:31 >>> Thanks John, Would 50 fields (mixture of text and numbers) and 200 records be considered small? Not having dealt with XML before, would the idea be to load the table at the beginning of a session and then save it at the end (or at regular intervals)? David At 9/11/2011, jwcolby wrote: >For small tables using XML to the local directory would be just fine. > >John W. Colby >Colby Consulting > >Reality is what refuses to go away >when you do not believe in it > >On 11/8/2011 2:04 PM, newsgrps wrote: >>This is sort of off topic but I will give it a shot. >> >>I am considering learning dot net and thought I would do a simple >>windows application project that >>can be distributed that has a single table of address information >>(perhaps being expanded to up to 5 >>tables). >> >>My reading indicates that I can create an installable package ok >>but I am unsure about the database >>part. I have seen examples which use SQL Server or Access but both >>of these seem overkill in this >>situation - likely users will not have either of these installed >>and it seems crazy to include >>runtime installations just for one table (or even if there were up >>to 5 tables). >> >>Assuming that a similar application was created for actual >>distribution what would be a suitable >>solution for storing the data in these circumstances (or is a dot >>net application not the right tool >>for this job?) >> >> >>Regards >> >>David Emerson >>Dalyn Software Ltd >>Wellington, New Zealand From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 9 10:14:43 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 08:14:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a chance to grade their current endeavors. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it-programmer/3622?ta g=nl.e101 Jim From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Wed Nov 9 10:53:34 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 10:53:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I am resurrecting a database I created several years ago in Access 2003. On my custom menu bar on a report I have an icon to export to excel. When it exports there are columns in the excel file that are not in the report or in the query that the report is based on. What might my export to excel button be doing behind the scenes I have forgotten about? If I simply right click on the report and export the correct columns show up. Thanks. Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 11:38:23 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 12:38:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> Yep, I responded..... It might be good for younger, full-timers.... but if you are contracting and competing with the "mudmen", it really stinks...pay-wise. Couple that with the greedy agency "cuts"....and then after-taxes, can you say "slave labor" ? Recent survey shows that contracting agencies are 50% or more staffed with foreigners. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:15 AM > To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues.'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion > concerning MS SQL Server'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem > solving' > Subject: [AccessD] the IT market > > As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a > chance to grade their current endeavors. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it- > programmer/3622?ta > g=nl.e101 > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Wed Nov 9 11:41:48 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 11:41:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: Hi Chester, I've never had good luck exporting reports to Excel. Seems as the column and page headings confuse the export process and it sets up columns in the output file for those. I've sometimes been able to adjust the column and page headings to minimize this problem. But the queries themselves always export great so that is what I do. There also could be a slight variation in the version of the excel file for what is created by the menu driven option verses the code driven way. So perhaps that is catching you. Not much help really for you I'm afraid though. Best of luck getting it working to your liking. GK On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Kaup, Chester wrote: > I am resurrecting a database I created several years ago in Access 2003. On my custom menu bar on a report I have an icon to export to excel. When it exports there are columns in the excel file that are not in the report or in the query that the report is based on. What might my export to excel button be doing behind the scenes I have forgotten about? If I simply right click on the report and export the correct columns show up. > > Thanks. > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 > > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 9 14:07:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 15:07:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> Message-ID: <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> You want to get depressed? This was written in 2004. http://lieberman.senate.gov/assets/pdf/off_shoring.pdf In 2011 the process is just about complete and there are few jobs left. If you lose yours don't expect to get another. And if you get another, don't expect to keep it. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/9/2011 12:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Yep, I responded..... > It might be good for younger, full-timers.... > but if you are contracting and competing with the "mudmen", it really > stinks...pay-wise. > Couple that with the greedy agency "cuts"....and then after-taxes, can you > say "slave labor" ? > > Recent survey shows that contracting agencies are 50% or more staffed with > foreigners. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:15 AM >> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> issues.'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion >> concerning MS SQL Server'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem >> solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] the IT market >> >> As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a >> chance to grade their current endeavors. >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it- >> programmer/3622?ta >> g=nl.e101 >> >> Jim >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 14:26:48 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 15:26:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> The huge problem with any export to Excel is data timeliness....i.e. How "fresh" is the data ? Any time someone opens up the Excel workbook, the question becomes "when was this worksheet last updated from Access ?" An OLEDB Connection to any Access table or query can be generated statically within Excel or dynamically from Access using Excel automation. This guarantees data freshness and synchronization. The kicker is: not all Access Select queries will be addressable from Excel...i.e. when they contain "non-standard" SQL functions like "IIF". (This is another unforgiveable Microsoft "oversight" IMHO - there should have been an exception for Access queries !). In that case, you must go thru a "workaround" in creating a table on-the-fly from the query definition....and then perform an insert from the query result set. Of course the OLEDB connection property is always set to reference the table, not the query. On top of that, you must run that Insert query in the Excel query table BeforeQuery event ..this time with Access automation. Again, that only has to be done if the Select query is complex and not directly addressable via OLEDB. IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries Every time you open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just "there". Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever minutes....even when users are changing the data. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 9 15:02:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 07:02:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> Message-ID: <4EBAEA52.6429.4599C35@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Until you want to email the spreadsheet to someone who is not on your network. On 9 Nov 2011 at 15:26, Mark Simms wrote: > IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge > hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries > Every time you open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just > "there". Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever > minutes....even when users are changing the data. > From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Nov 9 15:02:23 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:02:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> Message-ID: <000b01cc9f22$e0c17120$a2445360$@comcast.net> Hi Mark, When I export a spreadsheet from Excel, I include the Date/Hour/Minute/Second in the name of the file. Just call this function and include the result in the file's name. You could write a timer-based Access sub to output the Excel file every X minutes (and delete the previous file). '-------------------- Public Function CurrentDateTimeString() As String Dim stgHour As String Dim stgMinute As String Dim stgSecond As String Dim dteDate As Date dteDate = CurrentDate If Len(Hour(Now())) = 1 Then stgHour = "0" & Hour(Now()) Else stgHour = Hour(Now()) End If If Len(Minute(Now())) = 1 Then stgMinute = "0" & Minute(Now()) Else stgMinute = Minute(Now()) End If If Len(Second(Now())) = 1 Then stgSecond = "0" & Second(Now()) Else stgSecond = Second(Now()) End If CurrentDateTimeString = Month(dteDate) & "-" & Day(dteDate) & "-" & Year(dteDate) & " " & stgHour & stgMinute & stgSecond Exit Function ErrEx.Bookmark = BOOKMARK_ONERROR End Function '-------------------- Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 2:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to excel The huge problem with any export to Excel is data timeliness....i.e. How "fresh" is the data ? Any time someone opens up the Excel workbook, the question becomes "when was this worksheet last updated from Access ?" An OLEDB Connection to any Access table or query can be generated statically within Excel or dynamically from Access using Excel automation. This guarantees data freshness and synchronization. The kicker is: not all Access Select queries will be addressable from Excel...i.e. when they contain "non-standard" SQL functions like "IIF". (This is another unforgiveable Microsoft "oversight" IMHO - there should have been an exception for Access queries !). In that case, you must go thru a "workaround" in creating a table on-the-fly from the query definition....and then perform an insert from the query result set. Of course the OLEDB connection property is always set to reference the table, not the query. On top of that, you must run that Insert query in the Excel query table BeforeQuery event ..this time with Access automation. Again, that only has to be done if the Select query is complex and not directly addressable via OLEDB. IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries Every time you open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just "there". Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever minutes....even when users are changing the data. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 9 15:05:18 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 07:05:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> Message-ID: <4EBAEB0E.17442.45C7709@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Or, unless you need a snapshot at one point in time. On 9 Nov 2011 at 15:26, Mark Simms wrote: > > IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge > hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries > Every time you open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just > "there". Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever > minutes....even when users are changing the data. > From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Nov 9 15:09:19 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:09:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <4EBAEB0E.17442.45C7709@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> <4EBAEB0E.17442.45C7709@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000c01cc9f23$d9016200$8b042600$@comcast.net> Give everyone a shortcut to an access database that does nothing but export that spreadsheet. The access database should automatically, open, export, and close. Walla! Snapshot in time. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 3:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to excel Or, unless you need a snapshot at one point in time. On 9 Nov 2011 at 15:26, Mark Simms wrote: > > IMHO, this approach really beats all of the others....despite the huge > hassle that Microsoft has imposed for complex queries Every time you > open the Excel workbook....boom...the latest data is just "there". > Better yet: it can be refreshed every 30/60/whatever minutes....even > when users are changing the data. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 9 15:38:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 16:38:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Is Silverlight going away? Message-ID: <4EBAF2DA.4000107@colbyconsulting.com> Hints that maybe... http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/09/8717108-adobe-gives-up-on-mobile-flash-focuses-on-open-web-standards Or maybe not. ;) -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 16:02:44 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 17:02:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: <4EBAEA52.6429.4599C35@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <00d301cc9f1d$e8bb51c0$ba31f540$@net> <4EBAEA52.6429.4599C35@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001601cc9f2b$4f78f900$ee6aeb00$@net> That's no problem...as with all Excel linkages that are broken, the most recent data is still there. It's just not going to update of course. > Until you want to email the spreadsheet to someone who is not on your > network. From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 16:06:16 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 17:06:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001701cc9f2b$ce187060$6a495120$@net> Interestingly, the survey results to date certainly confirms this fact: There are no "big bucks" in the profession any longer. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it-programmer/3622?ta g=nl.e101 > > You want to get depressed? This was written in 2004. > > http://lieberman.senate.gov/assets/pdf/off_shoring.pdf > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 9 16:16:45 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:16:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> Message-ID: <0FDE3ECF4B2047588F6490A9203738EB@creativesystemdesigns.com> And the resultant apps are terrible as a cheaply paid IT guy does not give a crap...he or she is not paid to care. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 9:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] the IT market Yep, I responded..... It might be good for younger, full-timers.... but if you are contracting and competing with the "mudmen", it really stinks...pay-wise. Couple that with the greedy agency "cuts"....and then after-taxes, can you say "slave labor" ? Recent survey shows that contracting agencies are 50% or more staffed with foreigners. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:15 AM > To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues.'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion > concerning MS SQL Server'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem > solving' > Subject: [AccessD] the IT market > > As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a > chance to grade their current endeavors. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it- > programmer/3622?ta > g=nl.e101 > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 9 16:26:07 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 15:26:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market Message-ID: <20111109152607.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.60f0f674d9.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> i note that the distribution of responses on the questions is roughly the same. rating scale of 1-5 - responses 2 & 3 getting 75%+ of the votes. So not too informative. wonder if the distribution woud be markedly different for other professions or if this is just a reflection of human nature. R -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [AccessD] the IT market From: "Mark Simms" Date: Wed, November 09, 2011 3:06 pm To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Interestingly, the survey results to date certainly confirms this fact: There are no "big bucks" in the profession any longer. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it-programmer/3622?ta g=nl.e101 > > You want to get depressed? This was written in 2004. > > http://lieberman.senate.gov/assets/pdf/off_shoring.pdf > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 9 16:48:07 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:48:07 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> <4EBADD94.7000407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: There are now too many IT people in the market today and schools just keep cranking them out. The market just does not need any more buggy-whip or wagon wheel makers or film developers or video stores...those are all history. We were just lucky we got in early and got ahead. Most of us old guys are either skilled enough to manage the jobs, do them ourselves or are in a position to just retire (A semi-work environment until you really retire, at 85). The young guys are not in very good positions. (As I understand, Drew's position was on the way out as they were looking for a couple of young guys, unattached, that could do a lot of travelling and of course, be paid less...and also would have a full BS or BCS degree) The truth is that the only semi-secure positions are through the government. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 12:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] the IT market You want to get depressed? This was written in 2004. http://lieberman.senate.gov/assets/pdf/off_shoring.pdf In 2011 the process is just about complete and there are few jobs left. If you lose yours don't expect to get another. And if you get another, don't expect to keep it. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/9/2011 12:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Yep, I responded..... > It might be good for younger, full-timers.... > but if you are contracting and competing with the "mudmen", it really > stinks...pay-wise. > Couple that with the greedy agency "cuts"....and then after-taxes, can you > say "slave labor" ? > > Recent survey shows that contracting agencies are 50% or more staffed with > foreigners. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:15 AM >> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> issues.'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion >> concerning MS SQL Server'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem >> solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] the IT market >> >> As the IT, market is dramatically, changing the people here now have a >> chance to grade their current endeavors. >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/grade-your-job-it- >> programmer/3622?ta >> g=nl.e101 >> >> Jim >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 18:51:13 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 19:51:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] the IT market In-Reply-To: <0FDE3ECF4B2047588F6490A9203738EB@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4EB04C35.4010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB065BF.29082.9E6B0FA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EB067CB.7080100@colbyconsulting.com> <3A1BA62CC701425080FC90220A0FC274@creativesystemdesigns.com> <009f01cc9f06$61698ff0$243cafd0$@net> <0FDE3ECF4B2047588F6490A9203738EB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <002901cc9f42$d8ecb070$8ac61150$@net> I've witnessed this for sure. I mean, my goodness, my recent experience with MSI and their driver update program... says it all....just incredible. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 5:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] the IT market > > > And the resultant apps are terrible as a cheaply paid IT guy does not > give a > crap...he or she is not paid to care. > > Jim From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 07:14:50 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:14:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version Message-ID: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 07:58:07 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:58:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <004001cc9fb0$c69b51b0$53d1f510$@net> A heckuvan article.... A 2 week discussion over which clothes washer to buy ? Blow your horn while getting a speeding ticket ? Can you say "Obsessive / Compulsive disorder" ? This guy had some "issues". > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:15 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version > > > http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?cu > rrentPage=all > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 08:23:46 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:23:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, Interesting article. Thanks for posting the link. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 08:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?current Page=all -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 10 11:14:08 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:14:08 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Excellent article. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 5:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?current Page=all -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Nov 10 11:28:06 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:28:06 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> It takes a certain kind of person to be Jobs. Obviously he was very OCD and no saint, but, at the end of the day, it's that sort of meticulous attention to detail that has obviously been Apples success. I find it interesting how we often summarize a persons entire life and career in a few short anecdotes, but, in any case, you can look back at many personalities and see that same sort of obsessive behaviour - one that comes to mind of Walt Disney, but history is littered with them. I find it also interesting how we often imbue such people with our own preconceived and simplistic personalities - Jobs as an obsessive narcissist, Gates as a contemplative philanthropist, Zuckerberg as a young, ruthless geek, Brin/Page as quirky academic types, Ellison as a cold elitist businessman, Balmer as a maniac, etc etc? when, in reality, they are a lot more complicated than that and share a lot more in common with each other than we would like to think. This is an interesting paper on such personalities: Narcissistic Leaders: The Incredible Pros, the Inevitable Cons (Harvard Business Review) http://showsupport.typepad.com/odyssey/files/ccc-081208-macoby.pdf - Hans On 2011-11-10, at 5:14 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Thu Nov 10 11:31:25 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:31:25 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to excel In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7DE1B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1988E7E035@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I figured out what I did on the toolbar. I created an icon that said export to Excel but actually ran a query and then exported the results to excel. Just needed to modify the query it was running. At least we got some good discussion on exporting to Excel. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to excel Hi Chester, I've never had good luck exporting reports to Excel. Seems as the column and page headings confuse the export process and it sets up columns in the output file for those. I've sometimes been able to adjust the column and page headings to minimize this problem. But the queries themselves always export great so that is what I do. There also could be a slight variation in the version of the excel file for what is created by the menu driven option verses the code driven way. So perhaps that is catching you. Not much help really for you I'm afraid though. Best of luck getting it working to your liking. GK On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Kaup, Chester wrote: > I am resurrecting a database I created several years ago in Access 2003. On my custom menu bar on a report I have an icon to export to excel. When it exports there are columns in the excel file that are not in the report or in the query that the report is based on. What might my export to excel button be doing behind the scenes I have forgotten about? If I simply right click on the report and export the correct columns show up. > > Thanks. > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 > > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 11:34:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:34:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 7 / Access 2007 - form events cause error Message-ID: <4EBC0B2F.6050604@colbyconsulting.com> It appears that suddenly this morning Any form with an event causes an error which prevents the form from opening. I have a form which has no events and it opens. as soon as I double click the onOpen and cause the "[Event Procedure]" to be placed in the property the form refuses to open. The error is: The Expression On Open you entered as the event property setting produces the following error: Object or class does not support the set of events. This occurs in any form in any FE. I am sooooo tired of Access nonsense. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 11:36:21 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:36:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] You probably already know this (and now I do too) Message-ID: <4EBC0B95.4030301@colbyconsulting.com> Windows 7 and Access: http://allenbrowne.com/bug-17.html -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 11:48:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:48:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 7 and Access multi-versions security hooey Message-ID: <4EBC0E6A.6090006@colbyconsulting.com> I chose the first solution to modify the one registry key. Opened 2010 Access and then 2003 access (to do the reinstall thing) and I am back in business. http://allenbrowne.com/bug-17.html -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 12:15:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:15:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EBC14C4.2080607@colbyconsulting.com> This is an interesting read, however it would be even more interesting if he would expound every time he throws out a name. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/10/2011 12:28 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > > It takes a certain kind of person to be Jobs. Obviously he was very OCD and no saint, but, at the end of the day, it's that sort of meticulous attention to detail that has obviously been Apples success. I find it interesting how we often summarize a persons entire life and career in a few short anecdotes, but, in any case, you can look back at many personalities and see that same sort of obsessive behaviour - one that comes to mind of Walt Disney, but history is littered with them. > > I find it also interesting how we often imbue such people with our own preconceived and simplistic personalities - Jobs as an obsessive narcissist, Gates as a contemplative philanthropist, Zuckerberg as a young, ruthless geek, Brin/Page as quirky academic types, Ellison as a cold elitist businessman, Balmer as a maniac, etc etc? when, in reality, they are a lot more complicated than that and share a lot more in common with each other than we would like to think. > > This is an interesting paper on such personalities: > Narcissistic Leaders: The Incredible Pros, the Inevitable Cons (Harvard Business Review) > http://showsupport.typepad.com/odyssey/files/ccc-081208-macoby.pdf > > > - Hans > > > > > On 2011-11-10, at 5:14 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >> >> http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 13:21:59 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:21:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another Message-ID: Dear List: I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the target and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 14:06:44 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:06:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error Message-ID: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Dear List: Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second database, the following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' statement. db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the target and tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. and db1 is set to CurrentDb. What am I doing wrong? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 14:10:21 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:10:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net> When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some existing ones updated ? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > Dear List: > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record from > one > database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick tricks for > doing this? I have the path and file name of the target and the table > will > be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 14:13:43 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:13:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 7 / Access 2007 - form events cause error In-Reply-To: <4EBC0B2F.6050604@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBC0B2F.6050604@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <005201cc9fe5$3f59f910$be0deb30$@net> VBA Security set to "Low" ? (not recommended) > > This occurs in any form in any FE. > > I am sooooo tired of Access nonsense. From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 10 14:16:52 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:16:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Steve Jobs, the readers digest version In-Reply-To: <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> References: <4EBBCE4A.2060501@colbyconsulting.com> <27E4A439-857F-4A1E-ABAE-D87FE52411D2@phulse.com> Message-ID: <005301cc9fe5$aff073c0$0fd15b40$@net> He had "issues" alright...but the money was right there beside them. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 14:18:22 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:18:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net> References: <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net> Message-ID: <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that match up. But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I was trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get the right syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a text box. But this is not working: db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that match the source so the source records can all be appended in one swell foop. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some existing ones updated ? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > Dear List: > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick > tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the target > and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 14:19:48 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:19:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: Can you link to the table in the other database and do an insertion using a LEFT JOIN / unmatched query? On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second database, > the > following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' statement. > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & > " > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the target > and > tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. and db1 is set > to CurrentDb. > > What am I doing wrong? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 14:57:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:57:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: <9998F5073CD443FF90873E2888DE6ED4@HAL9007> That would be second easiest solution - after a simple SQL statement. :) Guess I'll go that way next. Tks. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error Can you link to the table in the other database and do an insertion using a LEFT JOIN / unmatched query? On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second > database, the following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' > statement. > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the > target and tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. > and db1 is set to CurrentDb. > > What am I doing wrong? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 10 15:29:01 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:29:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 7 / Access 2007 - form events cause error In-Reply-To: <005201cc9fe5$3f59f910$be0deb30$@net> References: <4EBC0B2F.6050604@colbyconsulting.com> <005201cc9fe5$3f59f910$be0deb30$@net> Message-ID: <4EBC421D.1010602@colbyconsulting.com> Yep. It is an inability of Access to write to the registry that causes the issue. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/10/2011 3:13 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > VBA Security set to "Low" ? (not recommended) >> >> This occurs in any form in any FE. >> >> I am sooooo tired of Access nonsense. > > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 15:34:17 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:34:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: Does the tblProductStructure already exist? If so, you would have to append records rather than inserting the table. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second database, > the > following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' statement. > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & > " > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the target > and > tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. and db1 is set > to CurrentDb. > > What am I doing wrong? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 10 15:39:42 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 07:39:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> References: , <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net>, <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Any spaces in the target database's path? -- Stuart On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that match > up. > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I was > trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get the right > syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a text box. > > But this is not working: > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & > " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that match > the source so the source records can all be appended in one swell foop. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching keys > from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some existing ones > updated ? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > Dear List: > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick > > tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the target > > and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 10 15:48:54 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 07:48:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007>, <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EBC46C6.14010.9AA9964@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Also, drop the .* after tblProductStructure. On 11 Nov 2011 at 7:39, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Any spaces in the target database's path? > > -- > Stuart > > On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that match > > up. > > > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I was > > trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get the right > > syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a text box. > > > > But this is not working: > > > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase & > > " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that match > > the source so the source records can all be appended in one swell foop. > > > > R > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching keys > > from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some existing ones > > updated ? > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any slick > > > tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the target > > > and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > 858-259-4334 > > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 10 15:50:25 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:50:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net>, <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <1D2950F21CFE40549C18073826427127@HAL9007> NO - but I tried it with bracketing and same result. Anyway I added a few lines of code and got it working by brute force - couple of DAO recordsets, .AddNew, loop through the source fields --> target field, .Update, walla. Done. Not elegant but effective. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another Any spaces in the target database's path? -- Stuart On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that > match up. > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I > was trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get > the right syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a text box. > > But this is not working: > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that > match the source so the source records can all be appended in one swell foop. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching > keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some > existing ones updated ? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > Dear List: > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any > > slick tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the > > target and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 20:01:02 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:01:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: Rocky, If this is the sql you are using, you need a period here tblBOMReport.* (between the tablename and the asterix. jack On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Does the tblProductStructure already exist? If so, you would have to > append records rather than inserting the table. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin >wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second database, > > the > > following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' statement. > > > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & Me.txtTargetDatabase > & > > " > > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the target > > and > > tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. and db1 is > set > > to CurrentDb. > > > > What am I doing wrong? > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From pedro at plex.nl Fri Nov 11 13:09:45 2011 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:09:45 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] altered query Message-ID: <201111111209.pABC9jws015096@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Group, why does access 2003 mutates a query from: SELECT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, COUNT(Patientnummer) AS UniekePatienten FROM (SELECT DISTINCT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, Patientnummer FROM Data2) Unieke_Pat GROUP BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam ORDER BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam; To SELECT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, COUNT(Patientnummer) AS UniekePatienten FROM [SELECT DISTINCT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, Patientnummer FROM Data2]. AS Unieke_Pat GROUP BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam ORDER BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam; When opening the query in designer mode. Pedro From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Nov 11 10:47:53 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:47:53 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] altered query Message-ID: Hi Pedro Don't know why except that it is good ol' JET SQL syntax. /gustav >>> pedro at plex.nl 11-11-2011 13:09 >>> Hello Group, why does access 2003 mutates a query from: SELECT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, COUNT(Patientnummer) AS UniekePatienten FROM (SELECT DISTINCT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, Patientnummer FROM Data2) Unieke_Pat GROUP BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam ORDER BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam; To SELECT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, COUNT(Patientnummer) AS UniekePatienten FROM [SELECT DISTINCT NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam, Patientnummer FROM Data2]. AS Unieke_Pat GROUP BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam ORDER BY NaamUitvoerder, Subagendanaam; When opening the query in designer mode. Pedro From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Fri Nov 11 11:07:23 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:07:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: <1D2950F21CFE40549C18073826427127@HAL9007> References: , <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net>, <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007> <4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <1D2950F21CFE40549C18073826427127@HAL9007> Message-ID: You missed out the required single quotes.... db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in '" & Me.txtTargetDatabase & "' SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" I.e. the full path to the destination database needs to be surrounded with single quotes. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another NO - but I tried it with bracketing and same result. Anyway I added a few lines of code and got it working by brute force - couple of DAO recordsets, .AddNew, loop through the source fields --> target field, .Update, walla. Done. Not elegant but effective. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another Any spaces in the target database's path? -- Stuart On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that > match up. > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I > was trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get > the right syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a > text box. > > But this is not working: > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that > match the source so the source records can all be appended in one > swell foop. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching > keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some > existing ones updated ? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > Dear List: > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any > > slick tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the > > target and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Fri Nov 11 11:19:46 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:19:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error In-Reply-To: References: <63B892619B8B4E18BD245040DECF0A69@HAL9007> Message-ID: When appending, it is INSERT INTO TableName(Field, OtherField) In 'X:\SomePath\SomeFile.ext' SELECT Atable.Field, Atable.OtherField FROM Atable But for Make Tables it is SELECT Atable.Field, Atable.OtherField INTO SomeTable IN 'X:\SomePath\SomeFile.ext' FROM Atable But if all fields are being appended you don't need to specify the field names in parentheses So Rocky's solution would in fact be db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in '" & Me.txtTargetDatabase & "' SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" You can find all this out by imply building the query in design mode and then selecting 'Append' or 'Make-Table' fro the menus and choosing the 'Another Database' radio button in the dialog box. Then just look at the SQL Access has built for you. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] INSERT Syntax Error Does the tblProductStructure already exist? If so, you would have to append records rather than inserting the table. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > Trying to append all records in a table to a table in a second > database, the following gives me 'syntax error in INSERT INTO' > statement. > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " > SELECT tblBOMReport* from tblBOMReport" > > where me.txtTargetDatabase has the full path and file name of the > target and tblBOMReport has the same structure as tblProductStructure. > and db1 is set to CurrentDb. > > What am I doing wrong? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Nov 11 12:10:21 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:10:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another In-Reply-To: References: , <005101cc9fe4$c708bbe0$551a33a0$@net>, <01087197E8294CD787417F7523FAAABB@HAL9007><4EBC449E.12657.9A22C7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><1D2950F21CFE40549C18073826427127@HAL9007> Message-ID: <53B73E82B26F462E8169515752FFDCD4@HAL9007> Aha! Thank you. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 9:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another You missed out the required single quotes.... db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in '" & Me.txtTargetDatabase & "' SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" I.e. the full path to the destination database needs to be surrounded with single quotes. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another NO - but I tried it with bracketing and same result. Anyway I added a few lines of code and got it working by brute force - couple of DAO recordsets, .AddNew, loop through the source fields --> target field, .Update, walla. Done. Not elegant but effective. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another Any spaces in the target database's path? -- Stuart On 10 Nov 2011 at 12:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I will delete from the target db all the records in the source that > match up. > > But that still leaves me with the copy (or append actually) which I > was trying to do with an INSERT INTO statement but can't seem to get > the right syntax. I have the target db path and name available in a > text box. > > But this is not working: > > db1.Execute "INSERT INTO tblProductStructure.* in " & > Me.txtTargetDatabase & " SELECT tblBOMReport.* from tblBOMReport" > > At this point I'll have deleted all the records from the target that > match the source so the source records can all be appended in one > swell foop. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > When you say "COPY", does that mean all target records with matching > keys from the source are deleted and then inserted ? > Or is it a mixed bag where some new ones are inserted and some > existing ones updated ? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:22 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Copy Record from one db to another > > > > Dear List: > > > > I need to copy specific records with about 35-40 fields per record > > from one database to another. No autonumber PK. Are there any > > slick tricks for doing this? I have the path and file name of the > > target and the table will be present there. The source db is CurrentDb. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 13:38:45 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:38:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Friday humor:SQL query problem Message-ID: http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Query-of-Despair.aspx Doug From davidmcafee at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 15:05:55 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:05:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Friday humor:SQL query problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I like the comment: "The problem is on page 4, line 27. Isn't that obvious to everyone? " On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Doug Steele wrote: > http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Query-of-Despair.aspx > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Nov 11 15:51:24 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:51:24 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Forcing_MS_Excel_workbook_to_get=09itsformula?= =?utf-8?q?s=09recalculated_and_charts_redrawn_using_Automation=2E=2E=2E?= In-Reply-To: References: <9A3B2400918448E184909C14E5C151A1@nant> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D6E04@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- I have solved the issue - it was caused by improper OpenXML SDK 2.0 calls, when fixed C# -> MS Excel automated workbook recalculation started to work OK. Thank you for your help. -- Shamil 09 ?????? 2011, 13:31 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil : > Hi Darryl -- > > Thank you for your reply. > I' m using MS Excel 2010. > I'm working on C# Excel Automation custom solution (in principle/on conceptual COM technology level there is no any difference in coding C# or VBA MS Excel Automation). > The task is to have MS Excel workbook opened, run calculations and saved. > Easy of course. But workbook recalculations and charts redraw don't work properly/at all. > I must note I do use OpenXML SDK 2.0 (http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=5124) to fill workbook's data in "Excel Automation free" mode - OpenXML SDK works with MS Excel workbooks on file/workbook's XML package level providing high level operations to manipulate worksheets cells' data, charts etc. > After workbook's data is filled using open XML SDK I do use Automation to open workbook and to run calculations and charts redraw (Open XML SDK doesn't have functionality to run Excel calculations) - and that calculation and redraw do not work (well). > It could be side-effect of using OpenXML SDK to fill workbook's data. > I will work more on this issue and I will keep posting on my progress. > It should be easy task, just missing something I guess... > > Opening MS Excel workbook using Automation, setting manual recalculation mode and related options are needed mainly for testing. > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 09 ?????? 2011, 03:19 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Hi Shamil. > > > > If Excel is in automatic mode when the workbook is opened the calculation will take place before any VBA event fires, so you cannot prevent it. > > You can switch to manual calc in the workbook_open event but this happens after the workbook is open. > > > > If the problem is caused by opening a workbook in a later version of excel than the version that last calculated it, you can apply a registry fix. > > > > Note that Excel sets the calculation mode from the first workbook opened in a session: when you open two workbooks, one saved in manual mode and one saved in automatic mode, they will both have the calculation mode of the first workbook opened. > > > > So based on this there may be a kludge type workaround. That is to use code to open a blank workbook and set the calculation mode to manual, and then open your 2nd workbook. This should prevent the second workbook for auto calcing on open. I have not tested this, but it should work based on the info above. > > > > You can then set calc to manual in your 'real' workbook as part of the open event using > > > > Private Sub Workbook_Open() > > Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual > > End Sub > > > > I will keep poking around. Can you tell me which version of XL you will be using for this? > > > > Cheers > > Darryl > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 11 17:00:23 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 09:00:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny In-Reply-To: <4EB45B66.31477.99D6FF3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com>, , <4EB45B66.31477.99D6FF3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EBDA907.20512.F126DED@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And a further explanation of licencing: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/11/bofh_2011_episode_18/ On 5 Nov 2011 at 7:38, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > What version numbers really mean: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/04/bofh_2011_episode_17/ > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 11 18:07:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 19:07:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Friday humor:SQL query problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EBDB8AF.1000404@colbyconsulting.com> You laugh. I have a *potential* client which has a peachtree installation. It uses a SQL Server query to pull aggregate data. The queru looks just about like that. And... it is in SQL Server 2000 TSQL which is... antiquated syntax. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/11/2011 2:38 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Query-of-Despair.aspx > > Doug From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 01:12:03 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 02:12:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny In-Reply-To: <4EBDA907.20512.F126DED@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EAC9C7C.4060906@colbyconsulting.com> <4EB45B66.31477.99D6FF3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4EBDA907.20512.F126DED@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Yikes! Someone has now demanded payments for using my keyboard and mouse. On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:00 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > And a further explanation of licencing: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/11/bofh_2011_episode_18/ > > > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Nov 12 01:18:13 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 00:18:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny Message-ID: <20111112001813.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.ba3509efd7.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Don't let them use it! (English is such an odd language) R -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT - Friday Funny From: Arthur Fuller Date: Sat, November 12, 2011 12:12 am To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Yikes! Someone has now demanded payments for using my keyboard and mouse. On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:00 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > And a further explanation of licencing: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/11/bofh_2011_episode_18/ > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 06:27:54 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 07:27:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Country Regions Message-ID: I already have the ISO list of countries. I would now like a list of CountryRegions (thereby sidestepping the issue of whether we call them States or Provinces or Cantons, etc.). Does anyone know of such a list and if so, a download URL? -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 08:26:40 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 09:26:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Message-ID: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012-licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from clients and massive switching to MySQL and the likes. I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Sat Nov 12 09:28:36 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 10:28:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Country Regions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Arthur, This may be a starting point http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2 jack -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 7:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Cc: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [AccessD] Country Regions I already have the ISO list of countries. I would now like a list of CountryRegions (thereby sidestepping the issue of whether we call them States or Provinces or Cantons, etc.). Does anyone know of such a list and if so, a download URL? -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 12 09:39:11 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 10:39:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with Oracle... This is so "Balmer-like". > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more > expensive > > http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012- > licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ > > The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL > Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. > > I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from > clients and massive > switching to MySQL and the likes. > > I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 09:54:27 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 10:54:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Country Regions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks! You're right: it's a starting point. Normalization required LOL. But that said, once I'm finished with the normalization, I'll make the result available for everyone. A. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Jack and Pat wrote: > Arthur, > > This may be a starting point > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2 > > jack > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 10:11:26 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 11:11:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a complete waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, and I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be dealt with in a VM. So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. You don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of December. Wow. Party hearty. Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist government, I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of Lucky MoFus. Arthur On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. > IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the > ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. > Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with Oracle... > This is so "Balmer-like". > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more > > expensive > > > > http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012- > > licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ > > > > The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL > > Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. > > > > I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from > > clients and massive > > switching to MySQL and the likes. > > > > I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 10:47:51 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 11:47:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> Arthur, Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play in MariaDB. Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both times. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. > See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the > last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a complete > waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, and > I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu > and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs > inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so > the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be dealt > with in a VM. > > So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. You > don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a > semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated > December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net > connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of > December. Wow. Party hearty. > > Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist government, > I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of Lucky > MoFus. > > Arthur > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with Oracle... >> This is so "Balmer-like". >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>> expensive >>> >>> http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012- >>> licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ >>> >>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>> >>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>> clients and massive >>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>> >>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 12:35:30 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 13:35:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other sources (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) What I do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: mounts the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far yet On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolby wrote: > Arthur, > > Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V > is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to > switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play > in MariaDB. > > Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in > Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both > times. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > >> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. >> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the >> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >> complete >> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >> and >> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so >> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >> dealt >> with in a VM. >> >> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >> You >> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net >> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >> December. Wow. Party hearty. >> >> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >> government, >> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >> Lucky >> MoFus. >> >> Arthur >> >> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >> wrote: >> >> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>> Oracle... >>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com[mailto: >>>> accessd- >>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>> expensive >>>> >>>> http://sqlserverperformance.**wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-** >>>> server-2012- >>>> licensing-and-hardware-**considerations/ >>>> >>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>> >>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>>> clients and massive >>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>> >>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John W. Colby >>>> Colby Consulting >>>> >>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>> when you do not believe in it >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>> >>> >> >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 13:26:28 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 14:26:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> I am downloading 4 different distros. Every one claims to just fire up and go. We shall see. Of course getting MariaDb to go after that is one more thing to make happen. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 1:35 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that > Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other sources > (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) What I > do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the > downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: mounts > the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) > > Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far yet > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolbywrote: > >> Arthur, >> >> Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V >> is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to >> switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play >> in MariaDB. >> >> Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in >> Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both >> times. >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >> >>> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. >>> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the >>> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >>> complete >>> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >>> and >>> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >>> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >>> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so >>> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >>> dealt >>> with in a VM. >>> >>> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >>> You >>> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >>> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >>> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net >>> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >>> December. Wow. Party hearty. >>> >>> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >>> government, >>> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >>> Lucky >>> MoFus. >>> >>> Arthur >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >>> wrote: >>> >>> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>>> Oracle... >>>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com[mailto: >>>>> accessd- >>>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>>> expensive >>>>> >>>>> http://sqlserverperformance.**wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-** >>>>> server-2012- >>>>> licensing-and-hardware-**considerations/ >>>>> >>>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>>> >>>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>>>> clients and massive >>>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>>> >>>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> John W. Colby >>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>> >>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >> > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 14:30:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:30:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> Fedora just hung showing the pretty submarine. It can't shutdown, power down only. Won't release the virtual cd so that I can install the tools. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I am downloading 4 different distros. Every one claims to just fire up and go. We shall see. Of > course getting MariaDb to go after that is one more thing to make happen. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/12/2011 1:35 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >> I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that >> Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other sources >> (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) What I >> do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the >> downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: mounts >> the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) >> >> Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far yet >> >> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolbywrote: >> >>> Arthur, >>> >>> Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V >>> is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to >>> switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play >>> in MariaDB. >>> >>> Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in >>> Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both >>> times. >>> >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>> >>>> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. >>>> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the >>>> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >>>> complete >>>> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >>>> and >>>> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >>>> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >>>> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so >>>> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >>>> dealt >>>> with in a VM. >>>> >>>> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >>>> You >>>> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >>>> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >>>> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net >>>> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >>>> December. Wow. Party hearty. >>>> >>>> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >>>> government, >>>> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >>>> Lucky >>>> MoFus. >>>> >>>> Arthur >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>>>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>>>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>>>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>>>> Oracle... >>>>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com[mailto: >>>>>> accessd- >>>>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>>>> expensive >>>>>> >>>>>> http://sqlserverperformance.**wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-** >>>>>> server-2012- >>>>>> licensing-and-hardware-**considerations/ >>>>>> >>>>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>>>> >>>>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>>>>> clients and massive >>>>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>> >> >> >> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 14:36:04 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:36:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I was never a big fan of Fedora; same problems as you. Ubuntu and Mint are my chosen paths. A. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 3:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Fedora just hung showing the pretty submarine. It can't shutdown, power > down only. Won't release the virtual cd so that I can install the tools. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> I am downloading 4 different distros. Every one claims to just fire up >> and go. We shall see. Of >> course getting MariaDb to go after that is one more thing to make happen. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/12/2011 1:35 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >> >>> I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that >>> Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other >>> sources >>> (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) >>> What I >>> do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the >>> downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: >>> mounts >>> the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) >>> >>> Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far >>> yet >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolby >>> >wrote: >>> >>> Arthur, >>>> >>>> Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V >>>> is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to >>>> switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play >>>> in MariaDB. >>>> >>>> Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in >>>> Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both >>>> times. >>>> >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> Colby Consulting >>>> >>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>> when you do not believe in it >>>> >>>> On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>>> >>>> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small >>>>> DBs. >>>>> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent >>>>> the >>>>> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >>>>> complete >>>>> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >>>>> and >>>>> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >>>>> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >>>>> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system >>>>> so >>>>> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >>>>> dealt >>>>> with in a VM. >>>>> >>>>> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >>>>> You >>>>> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >>>>> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >>>>> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, >>>>> net >>>>> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >>>>> December. Wow. Party hearty. >>>>> >>>>> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >>>>> government, >>>>> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >>>>> Lucky >>>>> MoFus. >>>>> >>>>> Arthur >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>>>> >>>>>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>>>>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>>>>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>>>>> Oracle... >>>>>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvi**sors.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >[mailto: >>>>>>> accessd- >>>>>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>>>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>>>>> expensive >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://sqlserverperformance.****wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-**** >>>>>>> server-2012->>>>>> wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-**server-2012- >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> licensing-and-hardware-****considerations/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>>>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> clients and massive >>>>>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com>>>>>> databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com>>>>> databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com>>> databaseadvisors.com > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 15:14:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:14:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <4EBEA337.1090502@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBEC864.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> <4EBED74F.60309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EBEE1A7.5030700@colbyconsulting.com> OpenSUSE Showed promise. Seemed to install. Turned into a black screen. Shutdown, turned it back on and I am at a pretty green desktop with folder icons. Linux Integration Service doesn't just install... It seems in fact that the Linux Integration Service only works on a small handful of distros. Now I remember why I stopped trying... ;) John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 3:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Fedora just hung showing the pretty submarine. It can't shutdown, power down only. Won't release the > virtual cd so that I can install the tools. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> I am downloading 4 different distros. Every one claims to just fire up and go. We shall see. Of >> course getting MariaDb to go after that is one more thing to make happen. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/12/2011 1:35 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>> I'm afraid that I can't help you in this endeavour, John. It seems that >>> Oracle VirtualBox doesn't have the ability to inhale VMs from other sources >>> (I could be wrong, but if so, haven't yet figured out how to do it.) What I >>> do instead (in VirtualBox) is create a new VM, loading a CD with the >>> downloaded OS, and after that, VirtualBox takes care of everything: mounts >>> the OS, installs it as a VM, allocates the default space with Grow, etc.) >>> >>> Allegedly there is a way to use MS VM images, but I haven't got that far yet >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:47 AM, jwcolbywrote: >>> >>>> Arthur, >>>> >>>> Do you have a Linux distro that runs in a Hyper-V vm. Yea I know Hyper-V >>>> is MS but I made a switch to Hyper-V and it would be very disruptive to >>>> switch back. But I would like to get a vm up and running so I could play >>>> in MariaDB. >>>> >>>> Are there encapsulated VMs that I can just download and start as VMs in >>>> Hyper-V? I tried to get two different DISTROs running and failed both >>>> times. >>>> >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> Colby Consulting >>>> >>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>> when you do not believe in it >>>> >>>> On 11/12/2011 11:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. >>>>> See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the >>>>> last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a >>>>> complete >>>>> waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, >>>>> and >>>>> I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu >>>>> and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs >>>>> inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so >>>>> the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be >>>>> dealt >>>>> with in a VM. >>>>> >>>>> So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. >>>>> You >>>>> don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a >>>>> semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated >>>>> December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net >>>>> connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of >>>>> December. Wow. Party hearty. >>>>> >>>>> Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist >>>>> government, >>>>> I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of >>>>> Lucky >>>>> MoFus. >>>>> >>>>> Arthur >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >>>>>> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >>>>>> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >>>>>> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with >>>>>> Oracle... >>>>>> This is so "Balmer-like". >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com[mailto: >>>>>>> accessd- >>>>>>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>>>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>>>>>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>>>>>> expensive >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://sqlserverperformance.**wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-** >>>>>>> server-2012- >>>>>>> licensing-and-hardware-**considerations/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>>>>>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>>>>>> clients and massive >>>>>>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> >>>> >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >>>> >>> >>> >>> From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 12 15:16:44 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:16:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> The only problem with open source: Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be competitive ? Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major build is released.... you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I don't know what is. In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. Is anyone cheering ? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 15:31:03 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:31:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBEE597.4030404@colbyconsulting.com> Of course had I used VMWare as the hypervisor none of this would be a problem... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 15:32:10 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:32:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBEE5DA.1090609@colbyconsulting.com> > Is anyone cheering ? Nope, not me. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 12 15:49:24 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 07:49:24 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com>, , <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBEE9E4.2500.13F7D11C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You mean I can get requisite and timely support from MS if I stay with them? ROTFLMAO. -- Stuart On 12 Nov 2011 at 16:16, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 16:04:08 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 17:04:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: JC: SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to suit this; c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that you have the boot discs for same). At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other Linux db. I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack of DVDs). A. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major > build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 12 16:22:02 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 14:22:02 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: You can buy a 2 Terabyte external HD for $89 or less now...will be significantly faster and more flexible than going the DVD route. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 2:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive JC: SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to suit this; c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that you have the boot discs for same). At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other Linux db. I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack of DVDs). A. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > The only problem with open source: > Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be > competitive ? > Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major > build > is released.... > you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I > don't know what is. > In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that > mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. > > MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn > good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. > That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many > major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of > hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel > 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. > The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. > Is anyone cheering ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 19:41:14 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 20:41:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBF203A.5030205@colbyconsulting.com> > You can buy a 2 Terabyte external HD for $89 or less now...will be significantly faster and more flexible than going the DVD route. There's someone out of touch with global warming / floods in Thailand. ;) John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 5:22 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > You can buy a 2 Terabyte external HD for $89 or less now...will be > significantly faster and more flexible than going the DVD route. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 2:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > moreexpensive > > JC: > > SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: > > a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or > 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. > b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to > suit this; > c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; > d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox > (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). > e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that > you have the boot discs for same). > > At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to > x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. > > At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so > in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit > (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, > but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native > boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, > isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. > > One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code > can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered > me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a > single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other > Linux db. > > I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when > I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That > gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack > of DVDs). > > A. > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> The only problem with open source: >> Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be >> competitive ? >> Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major >> build >> is released.... >> you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I >> don't know what is. >> In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that >> mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. >> >> MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty > darn >> good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. >> That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many >> major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of >> hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel >> 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. >> The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. >> Is anyone cheering ? >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 12 20:16:28 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 21:16:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <4EBF287C.9080101@colbyconsulting.com> In fact I have gotten rid of all my old hardware. When I moved to VMs I no longer needed all those other machines. I just upgraded my VM Server to AM3+ and DDR3 but gave the old AM2+ MB and DDR2 memory to Paul to put to work as a Unraid backup system for his house. So I have no extra hardware to throw at this. I am thinking about moving the VMs down to Azul, the mongo 16 core server. Two out of three VMs would reside there quite happily. The third needs high core speed and the server cores run at 2 ghz. Plus it needs fast SSD and I would need to migrate that into the Azul box as well. It really makes sense to host most of my current VMs there but for that one somewhat high requirement system. I haven't given up on the idea but implementing it is not trivial. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/12/2011 5:04 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > JC: > > SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: > > a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or > 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. > b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to > suit this; > c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; > d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox > (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). > e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that > you have the boot discs for same). > > At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to > x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. > > At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so > in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit > (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, > but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native > boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, > isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. > > One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code > can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered > me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a > single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other > Linux db. > > I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when > I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That > gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack > of DVDs). > > A. > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> The only problem with open source: >> Are you going to get the requisite and timely support needed to be >> competitive ? >> Of course, you can fix things yourself....but then when the next major >> build >> is released.... >> you've got to retrofit your mods. Now if that isn't shades of Sisyphus, I >> don't know what is. >> In that case, with every new release, you're climbing back up that >> mountain....retrofitting, recompiling, retesting, and on and on it goes. >> >> MSFT and the licensing cost can be a burden, but the support is pretty darn >> good...if you know where to look....and who to contact. >> That being said, for all those interested, I finally determined that many >> major bugs in Office 2010 have been addressed in a November 2011 set of >> hot-fixes and updates. The latest release number for Access 2010 and Excel >> 2010 is 14.0.6112.5000. >> The big one: VBA corruption is no longer an issue. >> Is anyone cheering ? >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Nov 13 11:49:47 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 21:49:47 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?ore_expensive?= In-Reply-To: References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi Arthur -- > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > Everything works just ducky. > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? Thank you. -- Shamil 13 ?????? 2011, 02:05 ?? Arthur Fuller : > JC: > > SInce you have lots of boxes available, my suggestion would be this: > > a) sacrifice one box to the god of Linux, and choose either Ubuntu 64 or > 32-bit, depending upon the hardware. > b) install the appropriate virgin of Ubuntu; reformat the main drive to > suit this; > c) wait a while, while it installs all the default software; > d) when it's all done, download a VM engine such as Oracle/Sun VirtualBox > (there are others, but that one happens to me my choice). > e) install any other OSs that you think you may need (which assumes that > you have the boot discs for same). > > At this point, you should arrive at a native Ubuntu boot and have access to > x number of VMs, with the ability to create more. > > At the moment, I haven't yet flipped my main squeeze, but I plan to do so > in the immediate future. At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > Everything works just ducky. I and everyone else in the world could profit > (even if only the non-monetary version of this word) by acquiring more RAM, > but for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > My ultimate plan is to flip this whole setup, so that Ubuntu is the native > boot, and all instances of Windows and Office and Access and .NET are VMs, > isolated from the serious stuff, so that no harm can befall the base OS. > > One of my goals in this endeavour is to learn Mono, and see how much code > can be transported to this frame. As it happens, an old friend has offered > me a simple database to transport from his dozen Excel workbooks into a > single Access db, which I could in theory transport to Base or some other > Linux db. > > I think that I'll postpone this flip until the Christmas holiday week, when > I am guaranteed not to hear from any client with pressing issues. That > gives me lots of time to back up everything (I just bought another 50-pack > of DVDs). > > A. > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun Nov 13 12:20:29 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 13:20:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. A. On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Arthur -- > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > Everything works just ducky. > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > From edzedz at comcast.net Sun Nov 13 17:44:05 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:44:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AppHangB1 Error for MsAccess 2003 on Windows-7 64 bit Message-ID: <000001cca25e$21a32fb0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Has anyone seen a error like this and has an idea on how to elimate it ? Thanks. . . ====================================================== Someone in another forum asked it it was an HP or a Dell. The machine in question is an Acer, but the AppHangB1 error seems to be endemic to many Office products besides Ms-Access, regardless of make or model of the hardware. Thus my sense is it something more than something an OEM might have installed on the computer. I compress the MDB and even used the /decompile. None of the tables are linked. Office 2003 been upgraded to SP3. The solution in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2397391 method 2, does mitigate the problem, but doesn't eliminate it. One of the choices from the right click on the MsAccess.exe menu is to run in XP mode. That further reduces the occurrence of the AppHangB1 problem. Also the same has been done to Word and Excel and well as the MDB file. Using Windows-7 64-bit, 4 gigs memory, dual Intel processor, Ms Access 2003 SP3 32-bit - with an large application seems to hang on large queries giving an AppHangB1 error. Page file to 15000 since it is Windows-7 Pro. dbMaxLocksPerFile set to (2^20) or 1048576. Follows is what is seen by the user when the problem occurs: When that happens I tell the customer to just click, allow to continue. ====================================================== Description: A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows. Problem signature: Problem Event Name: AppHangB1 Application Name: MSACCESS.EXE Application Version: 11.0.8166.0 Application Timestamp: 46437912 Hang Signature: 8308 Hang Type: 0 OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48 Locale ID: 1033 Additional Hang Signature 1: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 2: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 3: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Additional Hang Signature 4: 8308 Additional Hang Signature 5: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 6: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 7: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Read our privacy statement online: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=104288&clcid=0x0409 If the online privacy statement is not available, please read our privacy statement offline: C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt ====================================================== From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 08:24:21 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:24:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AppHangB1 Error for MsAccess 2003 on Windows-7 64 bit In-Reply-To: <000001cca25e$21a32fb0$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <000001cca25e$21a32fb0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <003501cca2d9$1ae21990$50a64cb0$@net> Does it occur in Office 2007 or 2010 ? If not, it's time to upgrade. I think the analogy is : You've got an antiquated transmission installed and running in a brand new Ferrari. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 14 10:12:17 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 08:12:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Message-ID: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> Dear Lists: I am considering upgrading a commercial product from Access 2003 to Access 2010 (loathe as I am to develop in 2010 - I guess it's time). Although most of the target market has Office with Access, so I can distribute an mde, some do not so I have always had a run-time version available as an option. I have used the Wise/Sagekey combo for this purpose for may years. (IIRC, the market for Sagekey was motivated in no measure by the poor implementation of run-time deployments in A2000 and A2003.) I have seen references to a run-time deployment in A2010 being much improved. If I can avoid purchasing the Sagekey 2010 script and using Wise I would prefer that - it would make life much simpler. So I am looking for experiences/comments/feedback/benefits/drawbacks, etc., on the effectiveness of the A2010 run-time deployment. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 10:52:54 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:52:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> Message-ID: <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> Sorry, I cannot answer this directly. But one huge issue is: has the run-time version kept-up with all of the fixes to the full version ? Hopefully, MSFT engineers just have 2 separate solutions that share the same code base....and all they have to do is recompile to sync the runtime with the full. I'm not sure of that however. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 14 10:58:37 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 08:58:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> Message-ID: <9DB2A1BF4C9C446DAE7F9F96539AEA68@HAL9007> Mark - same mde with or without Access. I just deliver the run time with all the required dlls and those who have Access get just the mde. The Sagekey script takes care of installing and registering the dlls. (Both have demo and empty back ends, icon, etc.) Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 8:53 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Sorry, I cannot answer this directly. But one huge issue is: has the run-time version kept-up with all of the fixes to the full version ? Hopefully, MSFT engineers just have 2 separate solutions that share the same code base....and all they have to do is recompile to sync the runtime with the full. I'm not sure of that however. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 14 11:20:44 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:20:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> Message-ID: <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> What I have read is that the runtime is the full version with registry entries which lobotomize it. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 11:52 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Sorry, I cannot answer this directly. > But one huge issue is: has the run-time version kept-up with all of the > fixes to the full version ? > > Hopefully, MSFT engineers just have 2 separate solutions that share the same > code base....and all they have to do is recompile to sync the runtime with > the full. I'm not sure of that however. > > > From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Nov 14 11:35:52 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:35:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> Message-ID: <00cb01cca2f3$db540110$91fc0330$@cox.net> Rocky, I think the runtime installer is more robust and would work if you never had to deal with other versions of Office being on the client machine and the various security issues with Windows Vista and 7. What Sagekey brings to the game is having a system that can accommodate whatever the customer has and play nicely with it. The new Sagekey scripts work with MSI and don't require Wise as I understand. We are still using the Access 2000 runtime and scripts. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 8:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Off Topic'; List Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Dear Lists: I am considering upgrading a commercial product from Access 2003 to Access 2010 (loathe as I am to develop in 2010 - I guess it's time). Although most of the target market has Office with Access, so I can distribute an mde, some do not so I have always had a run-time version available as an option. I have used the Wise/Sagekey combo for this purpose for may years. (IIRC, the market for Sagekey was motivated in no measure by the poor implementation of run-time deployments in A2000 and A2003.) I have seen references to a run-time deployment in A2010 being much improved. If I can avoid purchasing the Sagekey 2010 script and using Wise I would prefer that - it would make life much simpler. So I am looking for experiences/comments/feedback/benefits/drawbacks, etc., on the effectiveness of the A2010 run-time deployment. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 12:05:19 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:05:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3D426E72FDC04C50A4CFF0DD867DD9AA@XPS> Always been that way all the way back to day 1. When you use the runtime version, your using the same MSACCESS.EXE and everything else. In fact you can take the full version and start it with the /runtime switch to get a runtime environment. Prior to Windows 95, it wasn't done via registry, but it was still the same .EXE Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 12:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) What I have read is that the runtime is the full version with registry entries which lobotomize it. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 11:52 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Sorry, I cannot answer this directly. > But one huge issue is: has the run-time version kept-up with all of the > fixes to the full version ? > > Hopefully, MSFT engineers just have 2 separate solutions that share the same > code base....and all they have to do is recompile to sync the runtime with > the full. I'm not sure of that however. > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 12:06:49 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:06:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> Message-ID: I would still figure on using the Wise/Sagekey distribution. Keeps things nice and neat. A2010 still goes through the setup and configuration deal if any other version of Access is opened before it. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 11:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Off Topic'; List Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Dear Lists: I am considering upgrading a commercial product from Access 2003 to Access 2010 (loathe as I am to develop in 2010 - I guess it's time). Although most of the target market has Office with Access, so I can distribute an mde, some do not so I have always had a run-time version available as an option. I have used the Wise/Sagekey combo for this purpose for may years. (IIRC, the market for Sagekey was motivated in no measure by the poor implementation of run-time deployments in A2000 and A2003.) I have seen references to a run-time deployment in A2010 being much improved. If I can avoid purchasing the Sagekey 2010 script and using Wise I would prefer that - it would make life much simpler. So I am looking for experiences/comments/feedback/benefits/drawbacks, etc., on the effectiveness of the A2010 run-time deployment. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 14 13:46:05 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:46:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Reports vs SQL Server Reporting Services References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> Message-ID: Over the past two years, I have used Access 2007 to create a variety of reports. The data for these reports comes from a variety of data sources (Access, Excel, flat files, SQL Server, Pervasive Database, Firebird Database, etc). I REALLY like the report writer that is built into Access 2007. Recently the topic of SQL Server Reporting Services has come up. Even though I can access data from SQL Server (outside provider), I currently do not have access to SQL Server Reporting Services. I am curious if anyone here on the AccessD forum has worked with this facility. How does SS Reporting Services stack up against Access 2007 Reports? Is it possible to pull data from various sources into SS Reporting Services, like we can do with Access? Thanks, Brad From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 13:54:58 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:54:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <3D426E72FDC04C50A4CFF0DD867DD9AA@XPS> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> <3D426E72FDC04C50A4CFF0DD867DD9AA@XPS> Message-ID: <002a01cca307$4a6c6ca0$df4545e0$@net> Yes Jim, I understand that....but what if you download the Access 2010 runtime ? Does it always have the version identified with the latest updated full release ? Previously this may not have been a big deal, but with all of the quirks and foibles of 2010, it can be an issue.... i.e. you test with the full version, then deploy to users with the runtime version....and then things stop working. > In fact you can take the full version and start it with the /runtime > switch > to get a runtime environment. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 14 14:51:41 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:51:41 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?ore_expensive?= In-Reply-To: References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: Thank you, Arthur, I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... -- Shamil 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard disks > and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard disk with a > mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the flash-memory sticks: a pair > of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting the new version of Solaris on one > of them. > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point of > running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have with my > setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu VM and also > the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but each instance > opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this approach leads to > less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to > consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > A. > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native > > > boot, and then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 14 20:20:25 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 02:20:25 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Well, Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Thank you, Arthur, I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... -- Shamil 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting > the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point > of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have > with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu > VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but > each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this > approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in > two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > A. > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then > > > running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run > > > various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 14 21:10:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:10:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> Darryl, I want to discuss this. My client just brought up an 8 core AMD server with 16 gigs of ram, just in time to hear about MS deciding that $8K / core is a fair license price. I don't think that $64K for a CPU license is at all fair. Since we were just getting ready to move Access to SQL Server (but haven't yet) I am proposing that we take a hard right to MySQL / MariaDb. I wish I could have persuaded the to take an about face to Linux from an old Windows 2003 license. This is a small company, 50 employees and MS is getting massively expensive for a company this size or smaller. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 9:20 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller: >> My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. >> On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the >> workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard >> disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard >> disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the >> flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting >> the new version of Solaris on one of them. >> >> I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point >> of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have >> with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu >> VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but >> each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this >> approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in >> two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. >> >> A. >> >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: >> >>> Hi Arthur -- >>> >>>> At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then >>>> running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run >>>> various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. >>>> Everything works just ducky. >>>> ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. >>> >>> May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 14 21:22:19 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:22:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000f01cca345$c8dc1840$5a9448c0$@net> John - I really hear this stuff and wonder if MSFT isn't brain-dead sometimes ;) I doubt seriously that the licensing for a <50 person corp is NOT negotiable. MSFT is just testing the waters with that kind of licensing fee IMHO. > I want to discuss this. My client just brought up an 8 core AMD server > with 16 gigs of ram, just in > time to hear about MS deciding that $8K / core is a fair license price. > I don't think that $64K > for a CPU license is at all fair. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 14 21:47:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:47:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <000f01cca345$c8dc1840$5a9448c0$@net> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <000f01cca345$c8dc1840$5a9448c0$@net> Message-ID: <4EC1E0C1.8080908@colbyconsulting.com> > I doubt seriously that the licensing for a<50 person corp is NOT negotiable. MSFT is just testing the waters with that kind of licensing fee IMHO. I would guess so. The problem is that once you dive in to the water you are in for the long haul. Free? Not?? I can run MySQL on Windows 2008 and have a full on server with most of the bells and whistles. the cost is in coming up to speed in a new environment, but once done then it is very low cost. Or I can run MSSQL. They were already balking (unable to afford really) the $8K or so for the SQL Server Standard Edition. But we are about to move a full system, ~200 tables to something. Moving that big a database is going to be time consuming and expensive just in migration costs and testing. Do I move it to SQL Server 2008 Express? That doesn't seem a good bet. Do I move to SQl Server 2008 Standard and get locked in only to have MS really whack them around in the 2011 license costs? Or do I make the break and just go MySQL (or something else)? I am recommending that we just make a clean break right now. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 10:22 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > John - I really hear this stuff and wonder if MSFT isn't brain-dead sometimes > ;) > I doubt seriously that the licensing for a<50 person corp is NOT negotiable. > MSFT is just testing the waters with that kind of licensing fee IMHO. > >> I want to discuss this. My client just brought up an 8 core AMD server >> with 16 gigs of ram, just in >> time to hear about MS deciding that $8K / core is a fair license price. >> I don't think that $64K >> for a CPU license is at all fair. > > From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 14 22:12:16 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:12:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> John: All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case that you ever became completely stuck. It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. ;-) To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have found they had little trouble adjusting. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 7:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive Darryl, I want to discuss this. My client just brought up an 8 core AMD server with 16 gigs of ram, just in time to hear about MS deciding that $8K / core is a fair license price. I don't think that $64K for a CPU license is at all fair. Since we were just getting ready to move Access to SQL Server (but haven't yet) I am proposing that we take a hard right to MySQL / MariaDb. I wish I could have persuaded the to take an about face to Linux from an old Windows 2003 license. This is a small company, 50 employees and MS is getting massively expensive for a company this size or smaller. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/14/2011 9:20 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller: >> My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. >> On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the >> workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard >> disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard >> disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the >> flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting >> the new version of Solaris on one of them. >> >> I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point >> of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have >> with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu >> VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but >> each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this >> approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in >> two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. >> >> A. >> >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: >> >>> Hi Arthur -- >>> >>>> At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then >>>> running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run >>>> various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. >>>> Everything works just ducky. >>>> ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. >>> >>> May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 14 22:49:12 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:49:12 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC1E0C1.8080908@colbyconsulting.com> References: <000901cca180$61b4dab0$251e9010$@net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <000f01cca345$c8dc1840$5a9448c0$@net> <4EC1E0C1.8080908@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <6558FCA06665411F8D9EF674900DFC81@creativesystemdesigns.com> I second that thought. The only reason I was holding on to MS was because of their MS Access product, which at the time of its creation had a more than adequate DB, an excellent user interface and had a great reporting engine. It appears now that the product is become more crippled, as MS is no longer willing or able to provide sufficient resources to keep their product stable or able to handle the current data requirements. That is really too bad as MS Access is being allowed to die. MS has had two things going for it. One, a great application platform and two, a great Office application to run on that platform. Microsoft is now being hit from two directions. One, Linux has always been a very stable server product but now the same can be said for their desktops, add to that low cost Open Office products. When we come to database support for Linux this is where you hit the mother lode. There are numerous DBs of every size and complexity and many of them are very mature and have excellent interfaces and companion development applications. Two, Web based applications. That market is just starting but it will not be long before every application you can find on a desktop will be able to be found in a web-based alternative. MS unfortunately, dropped the ball on this. At one point, they held almost 90 percent of the browser market but due to neglect, like in Access, they have lost that market too. (IE use is now below 50 percent and it is dropping at half a percent a month.) I hope this is not depressing anyone but I see the market opening up with so many great opportunities but Microsoft products will just become one of a few supported product lines and not the only one. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 7:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive > I doubt seriously that the licensing for a<50 person corp is NOT negotiable. MSFT is just testing the waters with that kind of licensing fee IMHO. I would guess so. The problem is that once you dive in to the water you are in for the long haul. Free? Not?? I can run MySQL on Windows 2008 and have a full on server with most of the bells and whistles. the cost is in coming up to speed in a new environment, but once done then it is very low cost. Or I can run MSSQL. They were already balking (unable to afford really) the $8K or so for the SQL Server Standard Edition. But we are about to move a full system, ~200 tables to something. Moving that big a database is going to be time consuming and expensive just in migration costs and testing. Do I move it to SQL Server 2008 Express? That doesn't seem a good bet. Do I move to SQl Server 2008 Standard and get locked in only to have MS really whack them around in the 2011 license costs? Or do I make the break and just go MySQL (or something else)? I am recommending that we just make a clean break right now. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 15 01:28:52 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:28:52 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim, John at all, That's is an interesting discussion. But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... .Now take C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > John: > > All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > that you ever became completely stuck. > > It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > ;-) > > To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > > They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > found they had little trouble adjusting. > > Jim > > ) From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 15 01:40:39 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:40:39 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?ore_expensive?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering mounting > > the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the point > > of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem that I have > > with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. Within the Ubuntu > > VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome as my browser, but > > each instance opens pages related to the particular OS. I find this > > approach leads to less confusion, and since I'm going to become 64 in > > two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > A. > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then > > > > running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run > > > > various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 15 02:50:00 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:50:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> Shamil, Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. - Hans On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Jim, John at all, > > That's is an interesting discussion. > But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > > MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > > I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > > .Now take > > C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > > - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > > And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >> John: >> >> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >> that you ever became completely stuck. >> >> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >> ;-) >> >> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >> >> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >> found they had little trouble adjusting. >> >> Jim >> >> ) > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 15 03:05:22 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 01:05:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: Glad to hear this, Arthur. Your sentiments are just the same as what caused me to jump ship many years ago. What has your experience been so far? From a business point of view, I can see why Microsoft is doing this. They will get immediate returns, as many corporations are dependant on their products and there will be much friction to change, but it is also very short sighted and will only appease shareholders in the short run. When all is said and done, I find that MySQL is a very simple database and quick to get used to. It may lack a lot of bells and whistles that some of the more enterprise databases have, but I don't personally think many (or most) projects really require this. However, I do feel like I should plug PostgreSQL very quickly. It is a _very_ advanced database (dare I say, the only true open source enterprise database). It doesn't get as much attention, due to the fact that it is a much more comprehensive and advanced package, but it can certainly compete toe-to-toe with the heavy weights (and that's probably why it doesn't get nearly as much attention as MySQL does). But, if any of you need any help or advice on using or administrating MySQL (on a Linux platform, I'm afraid), I will be more than happy to help out. Perhaps we should add a new mailing list group just for this? - Hans On 2011-11-12, at 8:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I have moved to MySQL for medium-to-large DBs and to SQLite for small DBs. > See ya, BillG and SteveB. I'm gone, reluctantly so, since I have spent the > last dozen or so years mastering MS-SQL, which I now realize was a complete > waste of time and energy. From now on, I'm going open-source solutions, and > I'm about to bolt from the whole Windows "solution" in favour of Ubuntu > and|or Mint (a fork from Ubuntu). Currently I run both these OSs as VMs > inside Oracle/Sun VirtualBox. but I am about to flip the whole system so > the basic boot is into Ubuntu and any Windows/Access sessions will be dealt > with in a VM. > > So long, Steve and Bill. It's been a slice, but I'm done with you guys. You > don't make life better; you only make it more expensive. And as a > semi-retired person, expenses matter significantly.I just calculated > December and realized that at the end of the day (after rent, hydro, net > connection etc.) I have a whopping $15 left for the whole month of > December. Wow. Party hearty. > > Not that I'm complaining. Were it not for our alleged socialist government, > I wouldn't receive so much as a dime; so I count myself in the set of Lucky > MoFus. > > Arthur > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> John - I think it's a poor strategy on Microsoft's part. >> IMHO: They should position themselves price-wise BETWEEN the >> ever-so-expensive Oracle and the ever-so-cheap MySQL. >> Instead, they appear to be moving towards trying to compete with Oracle... >> This is so "Balmer-like". >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >>> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >>> Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more >>> expensive >>> >>> http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012- >>> licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ >>> >>> The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL >>> Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. >>> >>> I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from >>> clients and massive >>> switching to MySQL and the likes. >>> >>> I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > Cell: 647.710.1314 > > Thirty spokes converge on a hub > but it's the emptiness > that makes a wheel work > -- from the Daodejing > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Nov 15 06:48:47 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 07:48:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) In-Reply-To: <002a01cca307$4a6c6ca0$df4545e0$@net> References: <7B13A2F78AB742DBA6742B1415DF21A7@HAL9007> <002901cca2ed$db2a67c0$917f3740$@net> <4EC14DEC.8050407@colbyconsulting.com> <3D426E72FDC04C50A4CFF0DD867DD9AA@XPS> <002a01cca307$4a6c6ca0$df4545e0$@net> Message-ID: <74A57FE34FF74A79B661F6F45232D5BF@XPS> Ah, I see your point now. I always think of the runtime as something I distribute along with the package wizard. Not something a end-user would download directly on their own and execute. In fact I always thought it used your copy of Access as a base and didn't include Access per say on it's own. The "runtime" was just the package and deployment tools. In looking at the distributions, it looks like it may include a copy of Access (it's 202MB and I doubt the deployment tools alone would be that much), but it doesn't look like it's kept up to date as there is an SP1 for the runtime. Given that, the assumption would be that it's a RTM (Released to Mfg) version and then once installed, it relies on Windows Update to bring it up to snuff. But it could be the SP1 is simply for the deployment tools. I'll try and dig into a little more if I can find some time. I consider myself fortunate that I have done no development with 2010 and very little with 2007, so I haven't had to deal with the issues. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 02:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Deployment (cross posted) Yes Jim, I understand that....but what if you download the Access 2010 runtime ? Does it always have the version identified with the latest updated full release ? Previously this may not have been a big deal, but with all of the quirks and foibles of 2010, it can be an issue.... i.e. you test with the full version, then deploy to users with the runtime version....and then things stop working. > In fact you can take the full version and start it with the /runtime > switch > to get a runtime environment. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Nov 15 10:11:10 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:11:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: I started using MySQL several years back, and have since then co-authored several editions of our book on MySQL (Get It Done with MySQL, co-author being Peter Brawley, who frequents our sister site DBA-Hardware and Software Issues). When Oracle bought MySQL I got a little scared, but so far my fears are unjustified. That said, I feel a debt of gratitude to Monty and for that reason have also installed MariaDb, which is a fork off MySQL. Incidentally, for those inclined to trivia, Monty names his products after his daughters. The hardest thing for newcomers to MySQL and MariaDb is the wealth of configuration options. With MS-SQL you can pretty much load and go; and you can with MySQL and MariaDb too, but when performance is the crucial measure, then you have to open the hood and tweak the fuel-injection system, as it were. For anyone thinking of taking the plunge, you can visit www.artfulsoftware.com, which hosts our book and provides several chapters for free download, plus all the source code. In addition to discussing MySQL, we also address communicating with it from PHP, Access, .NET and other languages. Arthur On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:05 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com> wrote: > > Glad to hear this, Arthur. Your sentiments are just the same as what > caused me to jump ship many years ago. What has your experience been so far? > > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 15 10:58:17 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 08:58:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EBE8220.8070905@colbyconsulting.com> <004801cca151$3a06aa40$ae13fec0$@net> Message-ID: Arthur, I had a look at a few sample chapters of your book. Looks quite comprehensive. I have to admit, I've been using MySQL this whole time and never really knew its whole history until now. I also like how you have a section on solutions to common queries. Great stuff. I will definitely recommend it to anyone looking for a good resource on MySQL. - Hans On 2011-11-15, at 8:11 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I started using MySQL several years back, and have since then co-authored > several editions of our book on MySQL (Get It Done with MySQL, co-author > being Peter Brawley, who frequents our sister site DBA-Hardware and > Software Issues). When Oracle bought MySQL I got a little scared, but so > far my fears are unjustified. That said, I feel a debt of gratitude to > Monty and for that reason have also installed MariaDb, which is a fork off > MySQL. Incidentally, for those inclined to trivia, Monty names his products > after his daughters. > > The hardest thing for newcomers to MySQL and MariaDb is the wealth of > configuration options. With MS-SQL you can pretty much load and go; and you > can with MySQL and MariaDb too, but when performance is the crucial > measure, then you have to open the hood and tweak the fuel-injection > system, as it were. > > > For anyone thinking of taking the plunge, you can visit > www.artfulsoftware.com, which hosts our book and provides several chapters > for free download, plus all the source code. In addition to discussing > MySQL, we also address communicating with it from PHP, Access, .NET and > other languages. > > > Arthur > > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:05 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen < > hans.andersen at phulse.com> wrote: > >> >> Glad to hear this, Arthur. Your sentiments are just the same as what >> caused me to jump ship many years ago. What has your experience been so far? >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 15 11:58:02 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:58:02 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> References: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> Message-ID: Hans -- Than you for your remark. Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > > Shamil, > > Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > > - Hans > > On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Jim, John at all, > > > > That's is an interesting discussion. > > But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > > > > MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > > > > I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > > > > .Now take > > > > C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > > > > - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > > > > And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > >> John: > >> > >> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >> that you ever became completely stuck. > >> > >> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >> ;-) > >> > >> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >> > >> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >> > >> Jim > >> > >> ) > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Nov 15 12:29:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:29:58 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EC1D82D.9060000@colbyconsulting.com> <17D74A82797B424BA2DB1D27D7926C70@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Shamil: Gone are the days when everything was minis and mainframes and FORTRAN was king. FORTRAN was the first major language I learned but I have not used it too much lately. Microsoft has held the PC market for at least 10 years of the last 20 but I think we are in a period of transition and the market is spreading out again. If the patent wars do not seriously slow progress, we are on the verge of some very exciting times...similar to the 80s and early 90s. Open source and open standards is where I believe the market is going. You and I may be more familiar with Microsoft's stable of products but developing a decent product in any environment is not easy but it is now no more difficult, than under Linux, it is just different and it all takes considerable time to learn, regardless of the way you go. In the end, I believe, you can be equally as productive. Windows is the only major OS out there that does not have a Linux/Unix core. Linux is the environment of innovation. Virtually, every new product and concept in the computing world has first been created on Linux. Companies like Microsoft, Apple, Oracle, Google etc have been robbing the Linux garden for years and then have been running out and trying to patent it before someone else does or the product developers stamp a GNU and MIT license on it. Unlike Arthur, I will still be using some Microsoft products, as the customers demand it. OTOH, the market is moving away from Desktop type application and more towards Browser type environments...PCs, Smart phones, tablets and so on. In the future, proprietary PC applications are not going to be as important and that will leave Microsoft out of the loop, unless they make major changes in their corporate philosophy. This means, regardless of the effort required, the New Age IT professional is going to have to move more into the Linux world. That, as far as I can see, is a fact, that we all have to come to terms with. Therefore, whether we retire from the computer industry, develop products in a niche market or embrace the new order it does not matter. I believe it is a wonderful time to be in the computer world with so many options...and yes, that does not necessarily mean Microsoft. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 11:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive Jim, John at all, That's is an interesting discussion. But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... .Now take C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... Thank you. -- Shamil From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Nov 15 13:33:40 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:33:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60C0@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I have the following data in a table. I have been able to make reports based on each of the eng area's in the table. I now need to make a report with a total well count for each category (well status) in the table. I have not yet figured how to get a sum for each category in a report or do I need to do a query and base the report on that? Thanks tbl Monthly Well Count with EA Well Status Well_Count Eng Area Active Injector CO2 1 1 Active Injector CO2 3 2 Active Injector CO2 0 3 Active Injector WAG 100 1 Active Injector WAG 122 2 Active Injector WAG 58 3 Active Injector Water 33 1 Active Injector Water 93 2 Active Injector Water 85 3 Inactive Injector 36 1 Inactive Injector 25 2 Inactive Injector 31 3 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 15 13:42:41 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:42:41 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: HI Jim -- > we are on the verge of some very exciting times...similar to the 80s and early 90s. Yes. I'd even say they promise to be even more exciting... Yes, I know that "gone are the days when everything was minis..." - I have just mentioned them to note how huge is the software development productivity growth using nowadays development tools comparing to "good old days..." Still "mythical man-month phenomena" is very actual these days and even becoming more and more actual IMO - and that is Microsoft who is leading/is one of the leaders of the world mass and corporate market of software development productivity tools and programming languages *innovation* nowadays IMO... As for Microsoft business model - everybody knows they often were "missing mainstream uprising technologies" but there were no *any*(?) case in their corporate history they weren't able to "catch the leaving train" and to become a bandwagon - do you believe they will miss it this time?... Let's keep "adults talk" here? :) - I'm asking just one concrete question: - please give me real figures for real life project(s) when Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) of using MS development tools and applications platforms e.g. C#/.NET 4.0 + MS SQL is higher than TCO of using mySQL + ...(?).... provided development teams using that tools on both sides have comparable experience in developing business applications... > I believe it is a wonderful time to be in the computer > world with so many options...and yes, that does not > necessarily mean Microsoft. Yes, but I'm not questioning that. OK? Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. And no, I'm not working for Microsoft :) And I'm not MVP. 15 ?????? 2011, 22:31 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Hi Shamil: > > Gone are the days when everything was minis and mainframes and FORTRAN was > king. FORTRAN was the first major language I learned but I have not used it > too much lately. > > Microsoft has held the PC market for at least 10 years of the last 20 but I > think we are in a period of transition and the market is spreading out > again. If the patent wars do not seriously slow progress, we are on the > verge of some very exciting times...similar to the 80s and early 90s. > > Open source and open standards is where I believe the market is going. You > and I may be more familiar with Microsoft's stable of products but > developing a decent product in any environment is not easy but it is now no > more difficult, than under Linux, it is just different and it all takes > considerable time to learn, regardless of the way you go. In the end, I > believe, you can be equally as productive. > > Windows is the only major OS out there that does not have a Linux/Unix core. > > Linux is the environment of innovation. Virtually, every new product and > concept in the computing world has first been created on Linux. Companies > like Microsoft, Apple, Oracle, Google etc have been robbing the Linux garden > for years and then have been running out and trying to patent it before > someone else does or the product developers stamp a GNU and MIT license on > it. > > Unlike Arthur, I will still be using some Microsoft products, as the > customers demand it. OTOH, the market is moving away from Desktop type > application and more towards Browser type environments...PCs, Smart phones, > tablets and so on. In the future, proprietary PC applications are not going > to be as important and that will leave Microsoft out of the loop, unless > they make major changes in their corporate philosophy. > > This means, regardless of the effort required, the New Age IT professional > is going to have to move more into the Linux world. That, as far as I can > see, is a fact, that we all have to come to terms with. Therefore, whether > we retire from the computer industry, develop products in a niche market or > embrace the new order it does not matter. > > I believe it is a wonderful time to be in the computer world with so many > options...and yes, that does not necessarily mean Microsoft. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 11:29 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > moreexpensive > > Jim, John at all, > > That's is an interesting discussion. > But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > > MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > > I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have > worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, > command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and > PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or > network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data > definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how > much time all that development takes... > > .Now take > > C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > > - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux > development and support costs? > > And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards > HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and > support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom > business applications... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Tue Nov 15 13:50:18 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:50:18 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60C0@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60C0@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <005801cca3cf$cd6cf750$6846e5f0$@comcast.net> Hi Chester, If, on this report, you only want to display the count of wells, the I would probably write a query to use as the recordsouce of the report. Like this: SELECT tblWells.EngArea, Sum(tblWells.WellCount) AS [Well Count] FROM tblWells GROUP BY tblWells.EngArea; If you also need to display individual data on the report, then use the grouping and sum features of the report. Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report I have the following data in a table. I have been able to make reports based on each of the eng area's in the table. I now need to make a report with a total well count for each category (well status) in the table. I have not yet figured how to get a sum for each category in a report or do I need to do a query and base the report on that? Thanks tbl Monthly Well Count with EA Well Status Well_Count Eng Area Active Injector CO2 1 1 Active Injector CO2 3 2 Active Injector CO2 0 3 Active Injector WAG 100 1 Active Injector WAG 122 2 Active Injector WAG 58 3 Active Injector Water 33 1 Active Injector Water 93 2 Active Injector Water 85 3 Inactive Injector 36 1 Inactive Injector 25 2 Inactive Injector 31 3 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Nov 15 14:37:19 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:37:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report In-Reply-To: <005801cca3cf$cd6cf750$6846e5f0$@comcast.net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60C0@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <005801cca3cf$cd6cf750$6846e5f0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198AEA60E5@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Of course right after my posting it occurred to me how to do this in the report. Use this as the control source modifying as necessary for various text boxes. =DSum("[Well_Count]","tbl Monthly Well Count with EA","[Well Status] ='Active Injector CO2' ") -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Summerize data for report Hi Chester, If, on this report, you only want to display the count of wells, the I would probably write a query to use as the recordsouce of the report. Like this: SELECT tblWells.EngArea, Sum(tblWells.WellCount) AS [Well Count] FROM tblWells GROUP BY tblWells.EngArea; If you also need to display individual data on the report, then use the grouping and sum features of the report. Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Summerize data for report I have the following data in a table. I have been able to make reports based on each of the eng area's in the table. I now need to make a report with a total well count for each category (well status) in the table. I have not yet figured how to get a sum for each category in a report or do I need to do a query and base the report on that? Thanks tbl Monthly Well Count with EA Well Status Well_Count Eng Area Active Injector CO2 1 1 Active Injector CO2 3 2 Active Injector CO2 0 3 Active Injector WAG 100 1 Active Injector WAG 122 2 Active Injector WAG 58 3 Active Injector Water 33 1 Active Injector Water 93 2 Active Injector Water 85 3 Inactive Injector 36 1 Inactive Injector 25 2 Inactive Injector 31 3 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Nov 15 15:37:17 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:37:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> As I had indicated before, I think support is EVERYTHING. Example: After 2 successful years of running Firefox as my primary browser, I must now uninstall it. Why ?: Since the 7.01 release and now with the latest and greatest 8.0 release, It is no longer compatible with Adobe Distiller 9.0 I am now unable to print to PDF from a webpage. I LOVE TO DO THIS !!! And I love Acrobat - Professional. On the Mozilla tech forums, the responses I got to the problem went from the RIDICULOUS (Use Foxit) to the SUBLIME (get a MAC ). Neither were solutions even worthy of closer consideration. There you have it: hit the proverbial "wall" with open source and you're dead-in-the-water. I'm back with IE 8. Works great with Distiller. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 15 16:16:02 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:16:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> References: , , <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> Message-ID: <4EC2E4A2.7175.23835183@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I have no problems with printing to the open source PDFCreator with the latest FF. -- Stuart On 15 Nov 2011 at 16:37, Mark Simms wrote: > As I had indicated before, I think support is EVERYTHING. > Example: After 2 successful years of running Firefox as my primary browser, > I must now uninstall it. Why ?: > Since the 7.01 release and now with the latest and greatest 8.0 release, > It is no longer compatible with Adobe Distiller 9.0 > I am now unable to print to PDF from a webpage. I LOVE TO DO THIS !!! And I > love Acrobat - Professional. > > On the Mozilla tech forums, the responses I got to the problem went from the > RIDICULOUS (Use Foxit) to the SUBLIME (get a MAC ). Neither were solutions > even worthy of closer consideration. > > There you have it: hit the proverbial "wall" with open source and you're > dead-in-the-water. > I'm back with IE 8. Works great with Distiller. > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 15 16:38:00 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:38:00 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hi Shamil, Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. Now. MySQL - The Process so far: Looked at the manual: << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> Download the Free community edition: Easy << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> Install: Fairly easy Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> Or << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. Check data types << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Darryl -- I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > A. > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 15 16:50:47 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:50:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> Message-ID: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> Hi Shamil, I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). - Hans On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hans -- > > Than you for your remark. > > Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > > .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > > I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > > My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> >> Shamil, >> >> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >> >> - Hans >> >> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >>> Jim, John at all, >>> >>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>> >>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>> >>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>> >>> .Now take >>> >>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>> >>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>> >>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >>>> John: >>>> >>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>> >>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>> ;-) >>>> >>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>> >>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> ) >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 15 16:59:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:59:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: , , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4EC2EEBE.26497.23AACF6A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I just install MySQL by installing WAMPServer ( basically single click). Then I point my browser at http://localhost/phpMyAdmin for a GUI. -- Stuart On 15 Nov 2011 at 22:38, Darryl Collins wrote: > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL > Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad > and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get > started. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> > > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this > Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 15 2011, 06:22 Darryl Collins : > > Well, > > > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > > > Cheers > > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > > more expensive > > > > Thank you, Arthur, > > > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 13 2011, 22:21 Arthur Fuller : > > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > > > A. > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 15 16:59:30 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:59:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <7B162B94-F300-4F23-B039-424D9ECE43A0@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EC2EED2.1090709@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, In fact I believe that seat licensing is very reasonable with Microsoft. AFAICT the per seat is about $200 for Windows AND SQL Server, and that is a onc time cost, or probably a once every 4 or 5 years if they force you to get new CALs on some new revision of the software. in my opinion, that is just a reasonable cost for licensing a SQl Server. It does have to be budgeted for however. For example for this new server they need around 40 CALs which is $8K plus some fixed "server license" fees. That is a lump sum check that has to be written. If they just put that in the bank over 4 or 5 years they would be fine. I am not convinced that TCO as you describe it is huge on Linux / MySQL. I have a linux server that sits in the corner and runs. My TCO for that was $120 plus an old server system. If Access can talk through ODBC to MySQL then a conversion to MySQL would be reasonably priced. Yes there is a learning curve but still there are no or low recurring fees. Can .Net on client machines run against MySQL? I would bet so. Can I run VMs on Linux for things that have to run on Windows? What has to run on Windows? It isn't dead simple but you do get off the endless licensing treadmill with Microsoft. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/15/2011 12:58 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hans -- > > Than you for your remark. > > Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > > .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > > I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > > My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 15 17:13:30 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:13:30 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> References: <010b01cca3de$bfcb9840$3f62c8c0$@net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D996D@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> And IE8 and certainly IE9 are rather nice to use as well. MS have finally decided to get a bit more serious about the browser it seems. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 8:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive As I had indicated before, I think support is EVERYTHING. Example: After 2 successful years of running Firefox as my primary browser, I must now uninstall it. Why ?: Since the 7.01 release and now with the latest and greatest 8.0 release, It is no longer compatible with Adobe Distiller 9.0 I am now unable to print to PDF from a webpage. I LOVE TO DO THIS !!! And I love Acrobat - Professional. On the Mozilla tech forums, the responses I got to the problem went from the RIDICULOUS (Use Foxit) to the SUBLIME (get a MAC ). Neither were solutions even worthy of closer consideration. There you have it: hit the proverbial "wall" with open source and you're dead-in-the-water. I'm back with IE 8. Works great with Distiller. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 15 17:29:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 18:29:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4EC2F5C2.4060100@colbyconsulting.com> >Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. But to my knowledge the size limit is for a database. So put the table itself in one database and the work stuff in another database. SQL Server (even express) can handle more than a single database and can easily use tables in one database as part of a query in another database. I am not discounting the limitations, just discussing that there is a SQL Server solution in this particular example. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/15/2011 5:38 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > Hi Shamil, > > Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. > > However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. > > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. > > Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> > > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this > Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins: >> Well, >> >> Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. >> >> Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. >> >> See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >> Salakhetdinov Shamil >> Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY >> more expensive >> >> Thank you, Arthur, >> >> I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. >> I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... >> >> -- Shamil >> >> 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller: >>> My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. >>> On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the >>> workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard >>> disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard >>> disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the >>> flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering >>> mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. >>> >>> I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the >>> point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem >>> that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. >>> Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome >>> as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the >>> particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and >>> since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. >>> >>> A. >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: >>> >>>> Hi Arthur -- >>>> >>>>> At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and >>>>> then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I >>>>> run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. >>>>> Everything works just ducky. >>>>> ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. >>>> >>>> May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 15 17:35:16 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:35:16 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <4EC2F5C2.4060100@colbyconsulting.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4EC2F5C2.4060100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D99D4@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yep, that is pretty much what I ended up doing - indeed I ended up using several databases. I haven't given up on SQL Server Express, I just want to try something else and see if it behaves any better or suit my needs better. So far it has been promising. I am fairly lucky here in that the SQL server instance is just for me. I don't have to spend any time on security, user interfaces etc. I just need it to mash data as effectively as possible. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 10:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive >Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. But to my knowledge the size limit is for a database. So put the table itself in one database and the work stuff in another database. SQL Server (even express) can handle more than a single database and can easily use tables in one database as part of a query in another database. I am not discounting the limitations, just discussing that there is a SQL Server solution in this particular example. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/15/2011 5:38 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > Hi Shamil, > > Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. > > However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. > > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. > > Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy << > http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << > http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Defau > lt.aspx>> > > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << > http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more > 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins: >> Well, >> >> Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. >> >> Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. >> >> See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >> Salakhetdinov Shamil >> Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY >> more expensive >> >> Thank you, Arthur, >> >> I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. >> I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... >> >> -- Shamil >> >> 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller: >>> My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. >>> On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the >>> workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard >>> disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard >>> disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the >>> flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering >>> mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. >>> >>> I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the >>> point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem >>> that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. >>> Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome >>> as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the >>> particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and >>> since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. >>> >>> A. >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: >>> >>>> Hi Arthur -- >>>> >>>>> At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and then >>>>> running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I run >>>>> various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. >>>>> Everything works just ducky. >>>>> ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. >>>> >>>> May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Tue Nov 15 20:19:17 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 20:19:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <007b01cca406$248c5f40$6da51dc0$@comcast.net> Darryl - I don't remember you mentioning which version of SQL Express you're using. SQL Express 2008 R2 has a 10 Gb limit. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 4:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Shamil, Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. Now. MySQL - The Process so far: Looked at the manual: << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> Download the Free community edition: Easy << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> Install: Fairly easy Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> Or << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. Check data types << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Darryl -- I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > A. > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 15 20:38:09 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 02:38:09 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: <007b01cca406$248c5f40$6da51dc0$@comcast.net> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9194@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <007b01cca406$248c5f40$6da51dc0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DA327@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yep, That is the one I am using - 10 GB is the limit. But the 86 million rows of data are kissing the limit. 8 Access DB's pushed into a single SQL Server table. There are not that many columns of data (maybe 10 columns) in each table. Well, the one I am using to be precise is SQL Server Denali CTP3 - Express version of course. To give you an approximate idea. The 8 MS Access databases - each only contain a single table of data, no code, and a single query to ensure each table is exported the same are sized in KB (when compacted) as 1,080,608 926,160 1,343,040 998,736 1,452,932 1,300,500 1,291,344 1,287,232 ------------------ 9,680,552 Total KB ------------------ So pretty darn squeezy when pushed into a 10 GB limit :) Given that I need to add one column via the query to each table on upload you can start to see my problem. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 1:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Darryl - I don't remember you mentioning which version of SQL Express you're using. SQL Express 2008 R2 has a 10 Gb limit. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 4:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Shamil, Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. Now. MySQL - The Process so far: Looked at the manual: << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> Download the Free community edition: Easy << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> Install: Fairly easy Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> Or << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. Check data types << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Darryl -- I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... Thank you. -- Shamil 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > Well, > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Thank you, Arthur, > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > -- Shamil > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > A. > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Tue Nov 15 20:49:00 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:49:00 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Reports vs SQL Server Reporting Services In-Reply-To: References: <4EB84C14.29558.1901A71A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><017501cc9da5$418f8070$c4ae8150$@cox.net> <049E6C0E941B44D69DAFF9A846EA16E5@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <04b001cca40a$4c834000$e589c000$@activebilling.com.au> Hey Brad. We use RepServices here at the office (SQL2005 Back ends) Generally speaking - it's a pretty good tool, though there are display issues on the browser display of final reports if you are not using IE (Something to do with frames inside frames) A real PITA Anyway back to the designer - If I tell the design tool (Vis Studio) I want a new DataSource I get 7 'types' out of the box. This includes SQL Server (Of course) and an OLE DB option , ODBC, XML and ORACLE (These are out of the box nothing else installed) We only ever connect our reports sitting over SQL but I'm sure you could do more with it, from that point of view, than we are - Also the learning curve is bugger all if you already know VB and VBA syntax. Good Luck Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Reports vs SQL Server Reporting Services Over the past two years, I have used Access 2007 to create a variety of reports. The data for these reports comes from a variety of data sources (Access, Excel, flat files, SQL Server, Pervasive Database, Firebird Database, etc). I REALLY like the report writer that is built into Access 2007. Recently the topic of SQL Server Reporting Services has come up. Even though I can access data from SQL Server (outside provider), I currently do not have access to SQL Server Reporting Services. I am curious if anyone here on the AccessD forum has worked with this facility. How does SS Reporting Services stack up against Access 2007 Reports? Is it possible to pull data from various sources into SS Reporting Services, like we can do with Access? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Nov 16 02:34:36 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:34:36 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?ore_expensive?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. But you didn't account Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) which includes your project development and support costs, did you? I''m not asking for concrete figures but for evaluation based on your or others past experiences. Once again: TCO - C#/.NET 4.0 (VS2010) vs. mySQL + ...(?) .... Did you try to split your MS SQL Express db into several parts? Would that splitting introduce too much complexity to your business application development? How do you process your large data volumes? .... Instead of "blindly switching to mySQL" wouldn't it be better first try to evaluate long term costs? .... Darryl, I'm not trying to insult you or others with my questions here - these are more questions to myself how inexpensive is that "mySQL free cheese" in long run? Anybody tried to calculate that? Yes, I know many companies do not have that much of free money to pay to MS SQL licences up-front but with proper development plan/road-map there should be a way to make that licences affordable for them in long run - I mean if that companies have a profitable business and your development makes this business even more profitable then MS SQL should be a better choice provided your back-end isn't just a "dumb" relational db but needs rich (T)-SQL and many other features you're getting with MS SQL "out-of-the-box"... Thank you. -- Shamil 16 ?????? 2011, 02:39 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Hi Shamil, > > Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. > > However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. > > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. > > Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Default.aspx>> > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more 'options' on this > Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Well, > > > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > > > Cheers > > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > > more expensive > > > > Thank you, Arthur, > > > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, the > > > workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few hard > > > disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a USB hard > > > disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot the > > > flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run Chrome > > > as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > > > A. > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Nov 16 02:51:20 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:51:20 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> Message-ID: Hi Hans -- Thank you for your reply. But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... Thank you. -- Shamil 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > > Hi Shamil, > > I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. > > Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. > > That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. > > Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. > > Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. > > Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. > > There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). > > - Hans > > On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hans -- > > > > Than you for your remark. > > > > Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > > > > .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > > > > I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > > > > My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >> > >> > >> Shamil, > >> > >> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > >> > >> - Hans > >> > >> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> > >>> Jim, John at all, > >>> > >>> That's is an interesting discussion. > >>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > >>> > >>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > >>> > >>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > >>> > >>> .Now take > >>> > >>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > >>> > >>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > >>> > >>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >>> > >>> > >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > >>>> John: > >>>> > >>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >>>> that you ever became completely stuck. > >>>> > >>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >>>> ;-) > >>>> > >>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >>>> > >>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >>>> > >>>> Jim > >>>> > >>>> ) > >>> > >>> -- > >>> AccessD mailing list > >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Nov 16 03:06:15 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:06:15 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <4EC2EED2.1090709@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC2EED2.1090709@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John -- Yes, AFAIHH .NET client machines can run against mySQL. I can be wrong but aren't you just trying to use "raw modern multi-core processors power " to crunch relational db indexes and joins and for that you need to use all the processor's cores?, What if you'd try to use just one core and a lot of cheap memory for MS SQL db communication and use other cores to your custom application data processing/crunching and you'll write some custom C#/.NET coding for that - would that save your customers from paying high MS SQL per-core license costs *right now*? And when they get good profit from your working solutions then they can afford some loans from banks and afford per-core MS SQL licensing - and by that time you'll get them developed even more better and more profitable custom solutions? > It isn't dead simple but you do get off the endless licensing treadmill with Microsoft. John, but "licensing treadmill" or "custom software development and support treadmill" is what drives your, mine and other companies hi-tech businesses, isn't it? Thank you. -- Shamil 16 ?????? 2011, 03:01 ?? jwcolby : > Shamil, > > In fact I believe that seat licensing is very reasonable with Microsoft. AFAICT the per seat is > about $200 for Windows AND SQL Server, and that is a onc time cost, or probably a once every 4 or 5 > years if they force you to get new CALs on some new revision of the software. > > in my opinion, that is just a reasonable cost for licensing a SQl Server. It does have to be > budgeted for however. For example for this new server they need around 40 CALs which is $8K plus > some fixed "server license" fees. That is a lump sum check that has to be written. If they just > put that in the bank over 4 or 5 years they would be fine. > > I am not convinced that TCO as you describe it is huge on Linux / MySQL. I have a linux server that > sits in the corner and runs. My TCO for that was $120 plus an old server system. If Access can > talk through ODBC to MySQL then a conversion to MySQL would be reasonably priced. Yes there is a > learning curve but still there are no or low recurring fees. Can .Net on client machines run > against MySQL? I would bet so. Can I run VMs on Linux for things that have to run on Windows? > What has to run on Windows? > > It isn't dead simple but you do get off the endless licensing treadmill with Microsoft. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/15/2011 12:58 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hans -- > > > > Than you for your remark. > > > > Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > > > > .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > > > > I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > > > > My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Nov 16 09:11:12 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:11:12 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] IT Position in Minneapolis/St.Paul Message-ID: <002b01cca471$fa687070$ef395150$@comcast.net> I just talked with one of my customers this morning, and they are looking for a person to be an 'on call' IT person. This a 100 person manufacturing firm in Shoreview. If you're interested, please contact me directly. Thanks! Dan From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 16 11:16:13 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:16:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Shamil: The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard configuration. If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches up.) I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic configuration of both. This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user can get use to using either as they are very similar. I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic configuration of both. I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or in both and how much the initial products cost. Some other points to consider: 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent Windows products. 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. Jim From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 16 11:44:52 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:44:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> Message-ID: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Hi Shamil, > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: 1. They really need a certain feature 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > Thank you for your reply. > > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > > "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > > "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> >> Hi Shamil, >> >> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. >> >> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. >> >> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. >> >> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. >> >> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. >> >> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. >> >> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). >> >> - Hans >> >> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >>> Hans -- >>> >>> Than you for your remark. >>> >>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) >>> >>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... >>> >>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? >>> >>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >>>> >>>> >>>> Shamil, >>>> >>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >>>> >>>> - Hans >>>> >>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jim, John at all, >>>>> >>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>>>> >>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>>>> >>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>>>> >>>>> .Now take >>>>> >>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>>>> >>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>>>> >>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >>>>>> John: >>>>>> >>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>>>> ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>>>> >>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jim >>>>>> >>>>>> ) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 16 12:01:03 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:01:03 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3CCC7D71-E607-4C3B-943B-A4D332B4B616@phulse.com> Jim, This is very good advice. Nicely written. - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 9:16 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Shamil: > > The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had > no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. > Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties > when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it > sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard > configuration. > > If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx > they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is > also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux > desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and > capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has > the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could > host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches > up.) > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All > will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, > music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and > on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have > regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user > can get use to using either as they are very similar. > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is > relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak > it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of > these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL > can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be > tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and > investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? > > If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there > are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever > need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows > or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to > help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. > > Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. > The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or > in both and how much the initial products cost. > > Some other points to consider: > 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no > intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if > left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be > rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it > is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. > 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) > 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary > products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 > contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent > Windows products. > 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. > > Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They > are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but > OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the > next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 16 12:12:38 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:12:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: <6D4BC8D1A20546D9A663A6BCD03FCDE3@creativesystemdesigns.com> Good one Hans...well written. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 9:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive Hi Shamil, > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions: If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: 1. They really need a certain feature 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > Thank you for your reply. > > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > > "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > > "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> >> Hi Shamil, >> >> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. >> >> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. >> >> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. >> >> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. >> >> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. >> >> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. >> >> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). >> >> - Hans >> >> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >>> Hans -- >>> >>> Than you for your remark. >>> >>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) >>> >>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... >>> >>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? >>> >>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >>>> >>>> >>>> Shamil, >>>> >>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >>>> >>>> - Hans >>>> >>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jim, John at all, >>>>> >>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>>>> >>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>>>> >>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>>>> >>>>> .Now take >>>>> >>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>>>> >>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>>>> >>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >>>>>> John: >>>>>> >>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>>>> ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>>>> >>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jim >>>>>> >>>>>> ) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 12:28:42 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:28:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EC400DA.7020707@colbyconsulting.com> > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. I think this is particularly huge. I know I am familiar with MSSQL. However it was a few short years ago that I was cursing MSSQL for its obtuseness. Now that I "know it" I do not want to switch. But intellectually I think that becoming comfortable with MySQL is a necessity (for me). I work in small businesses where MS licensing is an issue for many reasons including complexity and cost. Having a free, open and powerful alternative can only be a good thing (for me). John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 12:44 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > > Hi Shamil, > >> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. > > In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > > >> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > > >> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) > > You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. > > Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > > >> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? > > If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. > > > If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. > > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > > > - Hans From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 12:33:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:33:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about "needing to reboot after updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows Server 2008 and SQL Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL variant. Then I will truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much so as any system can expect. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Shamil: > > The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had > no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. > Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties > when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it > sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard > configuration. > > If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx > they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is > also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux > desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and > capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has > the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could > host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches > up.) > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All > will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, > music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and > on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have > regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user > can get use to using either as they are very similar. > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is > relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak > it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of > these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL > can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be > tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and > investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? > > If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there > are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever > need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows > or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to > help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. > > Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. > The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or > in both and how much the initial products cost. > > Some other points to consider: > 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no > intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if > left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be > rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it > is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. > 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) > 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary > products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 > contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent > Windows products. > 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. > > Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They > are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but > OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the > next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. > > Jim > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 16 13:35:46 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:35:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, I've never seen a Linux server to have its stability degrade over time, unless there was a serious problem going on (like hardware failure). I have known Windows servers to have stability problems, but more often than not, this is usually due to poor quality drivers and/or the use of consumer grade hardware or software with memory leaks. But, unless you know exactly what you are doing, you will still find that you need to reboot Linux servers on occasions after a software update if there is a serious kernel patch. It doesn't happen as often as on Windows, but we used to have a very neat tool called Ksplice, which can patch a running kernel on the fly. Unfortunately, Oracle bought the company that ran that product and immediately dropped support for other distros other than its own (as if I really needed another reason to despise Oracle). :p I haven't checked what our uptimes are on at my (Debian) server farm. I'll have a look in a bit. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-16, at 10:33 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. > > I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about "needing to reboot after updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows Server 2008 and SQL Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. > > One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL variant. Then I will truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much so as any system can expect. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Shamil: >> >> The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had >> no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. >> Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties >> when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it >> sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard >> configuration. >> >> If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx >> they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is >> also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux >> desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and >> capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has >> the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could >> host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches >> up.) >> >> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >> configuration of both. >> >> This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All >> will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, >> music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and >> on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have >> regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user >> can get use to using either as they are very similar. >> >> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >> configuration of both. >> >> I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is >> relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak >> it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of >> these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL >> can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be >> tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and >> investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? >> >> If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there >> are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever >> need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows >> or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to >> help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. >> >> Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. >> The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or >> in both and how much the initial products cost. >> >> Some other points to consider: >> 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no >> intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if >> left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be >> rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it >> is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. >> 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) >> 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary >> products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 >> contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent >> Windows products. >> 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. >> >> Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They >> are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but >> OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the >> next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. >> >> Jim >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Wed Nov 16 13:40:47 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:40:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File References: <3386411D-4051-4641-BB89-39761423A5CC@phulse.com> <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: Folks, I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). I have not been able to find a way to do this. Thanks for your help and advice. Sincerely, Brad From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 16 15:06:14 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:06:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC400DA.7020707@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com>, <4EC400DA.7020707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EC425C6.5389.2869CA06@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> As I recall, it was more a case of you were cursing everyone on the dba-SQLServer list for their obtuseness when answering your questions. :-) -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:28, jwcolby wrote: > I think this is particularly huge. I know I am familiar with MSSQL. However it was a few short > years ago that I was cursing MSSQL for its obtuseness. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 16 15:13:56 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:13:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4EC42794.18550.2870D80A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > Folks, > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > Sincerely, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 15:23:00 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:23:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Mushkin 120 gb SATA III Message-ID: <4EC429B4.3090605@colbyconsulting.com> A great price on these for those in the USA. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008120%20600038519%20600038484&IsNodeId=1&name=120GB -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Nov 16 15:31:35 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:31:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857A@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Would a print screen do if you could send the key strokes Martin Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Stuart McLachlan Sent: 16/11/2011 21:15 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > Folks, > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > Sincerely, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Nov 16 15:33:53 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:33:53 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857C@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Or See this thread http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233108 Martin Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Stuart McLachlan Sent: 16/11/2011 21:15 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > Folks, > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > Sincerely, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 15:40:31 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:40:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC425C6.5389.2869CA06@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com>, <4EC400DA.7020707@colbyconsulting.com> <4EC425C6.5389.2869CA06@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4EC42DCF.5080401@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, that too. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 4:06 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > As I recall, it was more a case of you were cursing everyone on the dba-SQLServer list for > their obtuseness when answering your questions. :-) > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 16 16:15:12 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:15:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857C@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857C@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4EC435F0.21723.28A8EFA1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Well blow me down, who'd a thunk it? Worksheets("Sheet1").Range("A1:D4").CopyPicture xlScreen, xlBitmap Once you have the image on the clipboard, you can use the example OleCreatePictureIndirect() code directly in Access to do it. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 21:33, Martin Reid wrote: > Or > > See this thread > > http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233108 > > Martin > > Sent from my Windows Phone > ________________________________ > From: Stuart McLachlan > Sent: 16/11/2011 21:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File > > I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows > Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is > essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. > > -- > Stuart > > On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > > > Folks, > > > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > > > Sincerely, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 16 16:18:09 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:18:09 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John: One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but through some MS Update that setting was modified. I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data that I knew anything was wrong. >From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about "needing to reboot after updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows Server 2008 and SQL Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL variant. Then I will truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much so as any system can expect. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Shamil: > > The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux had > no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. > Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late nineties > when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it > sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard > configuration. > > If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx > they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this is > also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux > desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit and > capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS has > the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could > host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware catches > up.) > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All > will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, > music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products and > on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have > regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any user > can get use to using either as they are very similar. > > I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic > configuration of both. > > I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it is > relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak > it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) of > these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL > can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be > tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training and > investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? > > If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there > are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever > need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows > or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to > help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. > > Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. > The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either or > in both and how much the initial products cost. > > Some other points to consider: > 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no > intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if > left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be > rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least it > is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. > 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) > 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary > products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 > contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent > Windows products. > 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. > > Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. They > are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but > OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for the > next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. > > Jim > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 16 17:02:35 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 23:02:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive In-Reply-To: References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55D9902@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DA59B@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> No probs Shamil, It is always good to explore these issues. This role I am in now is a little unique compared to other positions I have had. In the past I have usually been involved with building rock solid user solutions that are rolled out over a business. They have to look good, function well and be nice and strong and stable as the user are just users who do what they do. They generally also follow a structured business workflow or plan and are fairly constrained on their input and outputs. If I have had the advantage of working with SQL Server I would usually get access to a big enterprise setup which was managed by dedicated DBA's with all the bells and whistles. There were always rules about what could and couldn't be done etc. In this sort of environment I can see your point about TCO and economies of scale and maintenance etc. Now in this role, I work with a small company in a team of 4 other guys and we manipulate large volumes of data which are project specific. Each project is largely unique so whilst we have a sort of framework we use, there is a lot of 'start from scratch' stuff in the early days when we get the data from the clients. In this role there is no need for nice GUI's for the users, or functionality or anything like. It is mostly pure data and brute force processing power to get the clients data into a useable framework for our processes. In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access. That is what I love about this role. It really is very different and hands on - without any hassle of having to spend hours and hours building a functional UI or even a functional DB. I mean we do built GUI for us, but they don't have to be rock solid and stable as they guys here are all data nerds like me and generally know there way around this stuff. One of the best and most interesting roles I have ever had. Now, based on this, I am probably not the best person to ask. One day we may have a dedicated and central server for processing data, but right now all of our heavy duty processing machines (about 25 of them) run our propriety software that actually produces the results for the clients. Think of what we do as drive the heavy bulldozers and trucks that mash the data and prepare it for processing. Hope that makes sense. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 7:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY more expensive Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your reply. But you didn't account Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) which includes your project development and support costs, did you? I''m not asking for concrete figures but for evaluation based on your or others past experiences. Once again: TCO - C#/.NET 4.0 (VS2010) vs. mySQL + ...(?) .... Did you try to split your MS SQL Express db into several parts? Would that splitting introduce too much complexity to your business application development? How do you process your large data volumes? .... Instead of "blindly switching to mySQL" wouldn't it be better first try to evaluate long term costs? .... Darryl, I'm not trying to insult you or others with my questions here - these are more questions to myself how inexpensive is that "mySQL free cheese" in long run? Anybody tried to calculate that? Yes, I know many companies do not have that much of free money to pay to MS SQL licences up-front but with proper development plan/road-map there should be a way to make that licences affordable for them in long run - I mean if that companies have a profitable business and your development makes this business even more profitable then MS SQL should be a better choice provided your back-end isn't just a "dumb" relational db but needs rich (T)-SQL and many other features you're getting with MS SQL "out-of-the-box"... Thank you. -- Shamil 16 ?????? 2011, 02:39 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Hi Shamil, > > Initially it is just the sheer volume of records. I am working with a 'block model' which is used to map open pit mines and there are many millions of records to process (about 86 million in this case). Each block has a unique X Y Z co-ord that places it in space, these 3 co-ords are basically the key for each record as should be unique. > > However in this case the client said there should be 83M in the model, but when we counted all the combined data sources we had 86 million, so we suspected there were duplicates. Loading 83 million records pushed SQL Express right to the edge of the size restriction limit, it left little room to do any actual processing work. The original data came to us in 8 separate MS Access databases, each one having around 8 million rows of data. > > The free version of MySQL doesn't have the same size limits as SQL Server Express, and with the Free GUI's (I am currently testing Toad and MySQL Workbench) it has been a fairly simple process to get started. > > Today I am hoping to get into the more complicated things - it is very early days, but hey, even If you are using the full grunt paid system on a stand alone server, it is a fraction of the cost of SQL Server these days - I would seriously consider it. I love the full version of SQL server, but I can say that, as I have never PAID for it. It has always been a company expense - someone else's proble. But even so, with this new plan it is looking bloody pricey even for those with serious pockets. > > Now. MySQL - The Process so far: > > Looked at the manual: > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index.html>> > > Download the Free community edition: Easy << > http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/>> > > Install: Fairly easy > > Attempt to do 'stuff' via the text window: Welcome back to 1998 - this was kind of freaky, was expecting something a lot more, ummm, polished. > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/database-use.html>> > > Decided there had to be a better way: Used Google and downloaded a GUI: Much better - phew! Relief for sure. > << http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/>> > Or > << > http://www.toadworld.com/Freeware/ToadforMySQLFreeware/tabid/561/Defau > lt.aspx>> > > Download ODBC connector for MySQL: Painless << > http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/odbc/3.51.html>> > > Create MySQL Database: Easy - although I want to look at more > 'options' on this Push or Pull data from MS Access to MySQL - Fairly easy - need to poke around a bit on the parameters. > > Check data types > << http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/storage-requirements.html>> > > Today I need to look at some serious data mashing. Will keep you posted. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 6:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > more expensive > > Hi Darryl -- > > I wonder, what raw (server side views, SPs, UDFs, triggers, ...) data processing/manipulation are you doing with your large dataset, which doesn't fit MS SQL Express? > What data processing/manipulation is done on your client side - just conceptual view of it?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 15 ?????? 2011, 06:22 ?? Darryl Collins : > > Well, > > > > Been an interesting couple of days. Have a very large dataset, far too large for Access so I have been playing with it in SQL Server Express, but been hitting issues with that as well - the data just fits (just) but it leaves almost no space do perform any actions on it. So now I am trying MySQL. Been a bit of a learning curve this morning, for example, it was awful until I found a decent GUI (that needs to be downloaded separately). But so far so good, I am liking it. Got it hooked into MS Access for import / export and the rest of it seems rather doable as well. Fairly intuitive so far, which I like. > > > > Will be a change as I have used SQL server for a few years now, but Express is getting too limiting and there is no way we can justify paying for a dedicated server. > > > > See how this turns out - early days yet so I am not getting too pleased with things, but an encouraging start none the less. > > > > Cheers > > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:52 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > > more expensive > > > > Thank you, Arthur, > > > > I thought you have used more powerful hardware - but if it works well for you, no problem. > > I've even a bit "weaker" system than you do (and just 3GB RAM), and I can have several VS2010 sessions, as well MS SQL, MS Word, Excel and Access etc. running simultaneously. They work rather smoothly but it's becoming as you say "confusing" to have all that stuff opened on one physical box, so I'm considering upgrading my hardware to something more modern (but not as mighty as JWC has) to run development for different customers in different VMs... > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 13 ?????? 2011, 22:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > > My hardware is pretty modest, Shamil, especially when compared with JWC's. > > > On the OS side, I run Windows 7 Ultimate. On the hardware side, > > > the workstation is a gracefully aging HP with 4GB of RAM and a few > > > hard disks and a dual-layer DVD burner. Oh yeah, there's also a > > > USB hard disk with a mere 250 GB. That's about it. Oh, I forgot > > > the flash-memory sticks: a pair of 16 GB sticks. I'm considering > > > mounting the new version of Solaris on one of them. > > > > > > I should add that I don't run everything all at once; what's the > > > point of running Ubuntu and Mint simultaneously? The one problem > > > that I have with my setup is that I don't have a Windows XP VM. > > > Within the Ubuntu VM and also the base Windows 7 boot, I run > > > Chrome as my browser, but each instance opens pages related to the > > > particular OS. I find this approach leads to less confusion, and > > > since I'm going to become 64 in two days, I have to consider confusion as a major topic LOL. > > > > > > A. > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Arthur -- > > > > > > > > > At the moment, I'm running Windows 7 as the native boot, and > > > > > then running Oracle VirtualBox inside that, and inside that, I > > > > > run various VMs, including Ubtuntu, Mint and Windows 8 Preview CTP 3. > > > > > Everything works just ducky. > > > > > ...for now this arrangement suits me to a tee. > > > > > > > > May I know what is your hardware to run all that stuff? > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 16 17:29:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:29:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EC4474F.8090208@colbyconsulting.com> I absolutely agree. MS has a lot of nerve assuming that they can reboot any server without permission. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/16/2011 5:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > >> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:33 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY > moreexpensive > > >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone > for too long it will > start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. > > I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about > "needing to reboot after > updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows > Server 2008 and SQL > Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. > > One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL > variant. Then I will > truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much > so as any system can expect. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Shamil: >> >> The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux > had >> no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. >> Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late > nineties >> when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it >> sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard >> configuration. >> >> If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx >> they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this > is >> also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux >> desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit > and >> capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS > has >> the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could >> host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware > catches >> up.) >> >> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >> configuration of both. >> >> This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All >> will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, >> music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products > and >> on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have >> regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any > user >> can get use to using either as they are very similar. >> >> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >> configuration of both. >> >> I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it > is >> relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak >> it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) > of >> these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL >> can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be >> tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training > and >> investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? >> >> If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there >> are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever >> need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows >> or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to >> help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. >> >> Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. >> The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either > or >> in both and how much the initial products cost. >> >> Some other points to consider: >> 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no >> intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and > if >> left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be >> rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least > it >> is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. >> 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) >> 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary >> products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 >> contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent >> Windows products. >> 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. >> >> Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. > They >> are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but >> OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for > the >> next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. >> >> Jim >> From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 16 17:40:15 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:40:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <4EC4474F.8090208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> <4EC4474F.8090208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <2E25C8B2-B90C-40E7-A8F3-04858F2E96A8@phulse.com> Jim, Wow, it happened again, eh? - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 3:29 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I absolutely agree. MS has a lot of nerve assuming that they can reboot any server without permission. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/16/2011 5:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi John: >> >> One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server >> 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but >> through some MS Update that setting was modified. >> >> I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type >> request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a >> MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. >> It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data >> that I knew anything was wrong. >> >>> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and >> it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. >> >> Jim >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:33 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY >> moreexpensive >> >> >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone >> for too long it will >> start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. >> >> I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about >> "needing to reboot after >> updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows >> Server 2008 and SQL >> Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. >> >> One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL >> variant. Then I will >> truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much >> so as any system can expect. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Hi Shamil: >>> >>> The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux >> had >>> no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. >>> Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late >> nineties >>> when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it >>> sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard >>> configuration. >>> >>> If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx >>> they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this >> is >>> also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux >>> desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit >> and >>> capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS >> has >>> the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could >>> host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware >> catches >>> up.) >>> >>> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >>> configuration of both. >>> >>> This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All >>> will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, >>> music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products >> and >>> on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have >>> regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any >> user >>> can get use to using either as they are very similar. >>> >>> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >>> configuration of both. >>> >>> I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it >> is >>> relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak >>> it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) >> of >>> these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL >>> can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be >>> tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training >> and >>> investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? >>> >>> If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there >>> are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever >>> need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows >>> or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to >>> help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. >>> >>> Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. >>> The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either >> or >>> in both and how much the initial products cost. >>> >>> Some other points to consider: >>> 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no >>> intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and >> if >>> left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be >>> rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least >> it >>> is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. >>> 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) >>> 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary >>> products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 >>> contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent >>> Windows products. >>> 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. >>> >>> Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. >> They >>> are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but >>> OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for >> the >>> next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. >>> >>> Jim >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 16 17:51:16 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:51:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: <2E25C8B2-B90C-40E7-A8F3-04858F2E96A8@phulse.com> References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> <4EC4474F.8090208@colbyconsulting.com> <2E25C8B2-B90C-40E7-A8F3-04858F2E96A8@phulse.com> Message-ID: <2956286C6F6F4E6FA3E1E5438E7E2C6B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Yes Hans, you will recognize this as an ongoing wine. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 3:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive Jim, Wow, it happened again, eh? - Hans On 2011-11-16, at 3:29 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I absolutely agree. MS has a lot of nerve assuming that they can reboot any server without permission. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/16/2011 5:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi John: >> >> One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server >> 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but >> through some MS Update that setting was modified. >> >> I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type >> request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a >> MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. >> It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data >> that I knew anything was wrong. >> >>> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and >> it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. >> >> Jim >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:33 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY >> moreexpensive >> >> >With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and if left alone >> for too long it will >> start acting strangely and need to be rebooted. >> >> I certainly don't find this to be true. Windows is much better about >> "needing to reboot after >> updates" though that certainly still happens upon occasion, but my Windows >> Server 2008 and SQL >> Server 2008 runs for months on end without a reboot. >> >> One day I will be building a multi-core mega server to run Linux and a MySQL >> variant. Then I will >> truly see how it goes. I entirely expect for it to "just work", or as much >> so as any system can expect. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/16/2011 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Hi Shamil: >>> >>> The TCO is an old and out of date concept. The phase was used when Linux >> had >>> no GUI and most of its configuration had to be done at the command prompt. >>> Linux products are now much more mature than they were in the late >> nineties >>> when the phrase was coined. Note; just like any Windows or Linux, it >>> sometimes requires you go under the hood but not for a basic or standard >>> configuration. >>> >>> If a person is fully skilled at either Windows serversxx, IISx, SQL 20xx >>> they can set up an operational system in a very short time but OTOH, this >> is >>> also true for some person versed in Debian Linux sever (with Ubuntu Linux >>> desktop), Apache and MySQL. Both the high end products are fully 64 bit >> and >>> capable of managing multi-core processes. (The current Debian server OS >> has >>> the capability to use a petabyte of memory, 128 to 256 cores(?) and could >>> host over 10,000 users...it will take many years before the hardware >> catches >>> up.) >>> >>> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >>> configuration of both. >>> >>> This is also true for a station whether Windows7 or Ubuntu Linux 11.x. All >>> will have the standard group of applications. Full Office, communications, >>> music and video players, full networking, full list of internet products >> and >>> on and on. Both Systems are incredible simple to setup, both systems have >>> regular updates and both are easy to use and navigate around in and any >> user >>> can get use to using either as they are very similar. >>> >>> I would think that it would take the same amount of time for the basic >>> configuration of both. >>> >>> I have worked for years with various versions of Oracle and to install it >> is >>> relatively easy. OTOH, to really optimize the DB you have to go in a tweak >>> it very carefully to hardware and user requirements. In MSSQL, most(many) >> of >>> these features are automated. Is that good or not, I do not know but MySQL >>> can be the same. Many people just install and run it, as is but it can be >>> tweaked to any requirement but like Oracle that takes a bit of training >> and >>> investigation. Is that potential a plus or minus to the novice? >>> >>> If you have a problem with either MSSQL or MySQL or Linux or Windows there >>> are plenty of books, Forums and blog sites with everything you will ever >>> need to know. OTOH, if you have a serious melt down with in either Windows >>> or Linux environment there is always an expert as close as the phone to >>> help...and it is pay as you go...so much per incident. >>> >>> Therefore, in summary as far as I can see, there is no difference in TOC. >>> The only cost is in how much time it takes to become an expert in either >> or >>> in both and how much the initial products cost. >>> >>> Some other points to consider: >>> 1. Linux is a very rugged product (it will run for years with little or no >>> intervention). With Windows, it is constantly rebooting after updates and >> if >>> left alone for too long it will start acting strangely and need to be >>> rebooted. (20+ years from NT to 2008 server and still the same...at least >> it >>> is consistent.) 2. Almost no malware can survive in the Linux environment. >>> 3. The Linux footprint is very small. (About a third the size of Windows?) >>> 4. Bugs in Open Source products can take days to fix while in proprietary >>> products they may take years, if ever. A single OS product can have 1000 >>> contributors while I would suspect much fewer resources for the equivalent >>> Windows products. >>> 5. Linux can out perform Windows on a computer with much less resources. >>> >>> Does this mean I am recommending everyone just abandon Window...hardly. >> They >>> are the current standard and many of our clients use Windows products but >>> OTOH I would suggest that every IT guy, who is planning to be around for >> the >>> next ten to twenty years, become familiar with Linux as well. >>> >>> Jim >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Nov 17 01:51:22 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:51:22 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Message-ID: Hi Jim et al Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: "Install updates automatically (recommended)" instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> Hi John: One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but through some MS Update that setting was modified. I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data that I knew anything was wrong. >From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. Jim From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Nov 17 02:09:00 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 00:09:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67AF3394-BAE7-4B82-BD29-8497BCD53804@phulse.com> Hej Gustav, Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Nov 17 03:06:54 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:06:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Message-ID: Hi Hans Yes, that is strange. Or does a category "Extremely urgent updates that overrules setting for later install" for updates exist? /gustav >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 17-11-2011 09:09 >>> Hej Gustav, Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 17 07:04:08 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:04:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC50648.1070301@colbyconsulting.com> Gustav, I have had this happen to me as well. I set ALL my machines to download and notify me and suddenly I come in and the server has rebooted and informs me that an update was done which required a reboot. The only thing I can figure is that a previous update which I did reboot after has gone in and reset that setting to automatic. This is real, believe me. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 2:51 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18>>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > >> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Nov 17 07:17:25 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:17:25 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Message-ID: Hi John I listen, but I've never seen it myself. Have a dozen or so servers running - physical as well as virtual - but most are 2003; only two are 2008 and one is 2000 (= zero updates!) /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 17-11-2011 14:04 >>> Gustav, I have had this happen to me as well. I set ALL my machines to download and notify me and suddenly I come in and the server has rebooted and informs me that an update was done which required a reboot. The only thing I can figure is that a previous update which I did reboot after has gone in and reset that setting to automatic. This is real, believe me. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 2:51 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18>>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > >> From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 08:34:11 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:34:11 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> References: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? .... etc ... IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... Hans you noted: <<<<<<<<<<< But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: 1. They really need a certain feature 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. As Darryl writes: <<<< In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > Hi Shamil, > > > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. > > In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > > > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > > > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) > > You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. > > Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > > > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? > > If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. > > If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. > > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > > - Hans > > On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Hans -- > > > > Thank you for your reply. > > > > But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > > > > I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > > > > And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > > > > "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > > Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > > > > "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > > I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >> > >> > >> Hi Shamil, > >> > >> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web & mobile development. > >> > >> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts & bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. > >> > >> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. > >> > >> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. > >> > >> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. > >> > >> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. > >> > >> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). > >> > >> - Hans > >> > >> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> > >>> Hans -- > >>> > >>> Than you for your remark. > >>> > >>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > >>> > >>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > >>> > >>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > >>> > >>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >>> > >>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Shamil, > >>>> > >>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > >>>> > >>>> - Hans > >>>> > >>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Jim, John at all, > >>>>> > >>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. > >>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > >>>>> > >>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > >>>>> > >>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > >>>>> > >>>>> .Now take > >>>>> > >>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > >>>>> > >>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > >>>>> > >>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > >>>>>> John: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >>>>>> ;-) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Jim > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ) > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> AccessD mailing list > >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 17 10:59:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:59:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EC53D89.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, If you read my original post closely you will see that it a client bringing up a new server, *not* my server here at my home office which is where I run the custom written C# program and SQL Server BE. As I think I stated in my original post, this client is at a transition point. They have to select an OS and a database engine. Their system uses Access backends, which we have split into many files due to size constraints. So for *this client* it is appropriate to study which route makes more sense. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > > Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > > I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > > How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > .... etc ... > > IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > > You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > > I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > > Hans you noted: > > <<<<<<<<<<< > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>>> > > I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > > As Darryl writes: > > <<<< > In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>>> > I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > > I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > > Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 > > 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >> >> Hi Shamil, >> >>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? >> >> I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. >> >> In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. >> >>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. >> >> In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) >> >>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) >> >> You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. >> >> Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. >> >>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? >> >> If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. >> >> If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. >> >> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: >> >> 1. They really need a certain feature >> >> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) >> >> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >> >> - Hans >> >> On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >>> Hi Hans -- >>> >>> Thank you for your reply. >>> >>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? >>> >>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. >>> >>> And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? >>> >>> "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" >>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... >>> >>> "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." >>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> >>> 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Shamil, >>>> >>>> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web& mobile development. >>>> >>>> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts& bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. >>>> >>>> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. >>>> >>>> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. >>>> >>>> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. >>>> >>>> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. >>>> >>>> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). >>>> >>>> - Hans >>>> >>>> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hans -- >>>>> >>>>> Than you for your remark. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) >>>>> >>>>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... >>>>> >>>>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? >>>>> >>>>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Shamil, >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Hans >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Jim, John at all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>>>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>>>>>> >>>>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> .Now take >>>>>>> >>>>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Shamil >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence": >>>>>>>> John: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>>>>>> ;-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 13:00:18 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:00:18 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <4EC53D89.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC53D89.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John -- Thank you for your clarification - from you original post http://e.mail.ru/cgi-bin/msglist?542573152=&folder=0#readmsg?id=13211081120000000542&folder=3 it wasn't clear for me that you're talking about particular client considering probable moving out of using MS Windows and MS database (Access or SQL) backends, and so I mistakenly implied you're going to rework you mighty "data crunching" system to use mySQL... -- Shamil 17 ?????? 2011, 21:01 ?? jwcolby : > Shamil, > > If you read my original post closely you will see that it a client bringing up a new server, *not* > my server here at my home office which is where I run the custom written C# program and SQL Server BE. > > As I think I stated in my original post, this client is at a transition point. They have to select > an OS and a database engine. Their system uses Access backends, which we have split into many files > due to size constraints. > > So for *this client* it is appropriate to study which route makes more sense. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > > > > Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > > > > I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > > I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > > > > How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > > How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > > Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > > Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > > What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > > Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > > .... etc ... > > > > IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > > > > You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > > > > I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > > > > Hans you noted: > > > > <<<<<<<<<<< > > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > > > > As Darryl writes: > > > > <<<< > > In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access > >>>>> > > I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > > > > I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > > > > Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > > I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 > > > > 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >> > >> Hi Shamil, > >> > >>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > >> > >> I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. > >> > >> In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > >> > >>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > >> > >> In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > >> > >>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) > >> > >> You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. > >> > >> Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > >> > >>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? > >> > >> If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. > >> > >> If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. > >> > >> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > >> > >> 1. They really need a certain feature > >> > >> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > >> > >> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >> > >> - Hans > >> > >> On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Hans -- > >>> > >>> Thank you for your reply. > >>> > >>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > >>> > >>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > >>> > >>> And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > >>> > >>> "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > >>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > >>> > >>> "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > >>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >>> > >>> > >>> 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Hi Shamil, > >>>> > >>>> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web& mobile development. > >>>> > >>>> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts& bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. > >>>> > >>>> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. > >>>> > >>>> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. > >>>> > >>>> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. > >>>> > >>>> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. > >>>> > >>>> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). > >>>> > >>>> - Hans > >>>> > >>>> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hans -- > >>>>> > >>>>> Than you for your remark. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > >>>>> > >>>>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > >>>>> > >>>>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > >>>>> > >>>>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Shamil, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - Hans > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Jim, John at all, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. > >>>>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> .Now take > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thank you. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence": > >>>>>>>> John: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >>>>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >>>>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >>>>>>>> ;-) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >>>>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >>>>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >>>>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >>>>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >>>>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >>>>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Jim > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> AccessD mailing list > >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 17 13:09:47 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:09:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] TOC MySQL vs SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <03AC5009-03C0-4043-96D8-BF7C71E45F15@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4EC55BFB.1080506@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, OK, so now that we understand that it is in fact a client's new server that I was discussing originally, let's go ahead and discuss doing the same thing here at my home office. First take a look at this article: http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/move_from_microsoft_SQL_Server.html It would appear that I could in fact run MySQL right on my existing server should I so desire. I have built my mongo server around Windows 2008 and SQL Server 2008. I have written a custom C# application which performs massive table updates every month. Due to the fact that the server runs an X64 version of windows and I installed an X64 version of Visual Studio on the server, and the fact that the X64 version does not support "edit and continue", I actually run the C# application on vmDev which runs an X32 version of Visual Studio. The application runs on a VM and the actual database manipulations run on the X64 server. The application, written in C#, executes dynamic SQL on the server, getting back results. If I needed to, what would be the "costs" to move to MySQL? The question becomes: 1) Cost to install and come up to speed on MySQL. 2) The complexity (time) to move the data from SQL Server to MSSql. 3) What is involved in porting the code to use dynamic SQL that MySQL supports? In my case the databases I manipulate are not very complex. Typically each database has two or a few tables. I am not using stored procedures in SQL Server, in fact I have intentionally migrated away from doing so (I used to). My "stored procedures" are now C# routines and dynamic SQL. I find C# much more flexible as a language and find no need for stored procedures *for this application*. My take on migrating this application to MySQL is that I would not hesitate to do so if I needed to, and I do not currently need to. I do not need to run the C# code itself on the server so even if the database or MySQL were hosted on Linux, I could still probably run my application, assuming the Dynamic SQL port. After the migration, the TCO seems to be similar, or perhaps lower than an MS only solution since SQL Server licensing costs go away. If I were to migrate to Linux then Windows licensing costs go away. These are not insubstantial costs. I do not use Linux or MySQL so I cannot speak with authority but they both appear to have reached the point where they are not rocket science, or any more so that maintaining Windows server software is. I am really exploring this more in the context of future business. MS licensing is already so convoluted and costly that small businesses are protesting server based systems. They used to use Access and I used to recommend Access, be and fe, but am I going to continue doing so? I think not. So what do I recommend when MS wants $10K to $20K for the Windows / SQL Server licenses for a new server? For the small businesses I work for this is a large chunk of change. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > > Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > > I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > > How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > .... etc ... > > IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > > You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > > I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > > Hans you noted: > > <<<<<<<<<<< > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>>> > > I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > > As Darryl writes: > > <<<< > In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>>> > I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > > I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > > Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 17 13:12:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:12:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Server license scheme is RADICALLLY moreexpensive In-Reply-To: References: <4EC53D89.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4EC55C87.3010206@colbyconsulting.com> Your link takes me to a n email login screen in Russia. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/17/2011 2:00 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi John -- > > Thank you for your clarification - from you original post > > http://e.mail.ru/cgi-bin/msglist?542573152=&folder=0#readmsg?id=13211081120000000542&folder=3 > > it wasn't clear for me that you're talking about particular client considering probable moving out of using MS Windows and MS database (Access or SQL) backends, and so I mistakenly implied you're going to rework you mighty "data crunching" system to use mySQL... > > -- Shamil > > 17 ?????? 2011, 21:01 ?? jwcolby: >> Shamil, >> >> If you read my original post closely you will see that it a client bringing up a new server, *not* >> my server here at my home office which is where I run the custom written C# program and SQL Server BE. >> >> As I think I stated in my original post, this client is at a transition point. They have to select >> an OS and a database engine. Their system uses Access backends, which we have split into many files >> due to size constraints. >> >> So for *this client* it is appropriate to study which route makes more sense. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>> Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- >>> >>> Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... >>> >>> I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. >>> I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. >>> >>> How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? >>> How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? >>> Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? >>> Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? >>> What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? >>> Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? >>> .... etc ... >>> >>> IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. >>> >>> You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. >>> >>> I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... >>> >>> Hans you noted: >>> >>> <<<<<<<<<<< >>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: >>> >>> 1. They really need a certain feature >>> >>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) >>> >>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. >>> >>> As Darryl writes: >>> >>> <<<< >>> In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>>>>> >>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. >>> >>> I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. >>> >>> Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... >>> I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" >>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 >>> >>> 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>> >>>> Hi Shamil, >>>> >>>>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? >>>> >>>> I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. >>>> >>>> In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. >>>> >>>>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. >>>> >>>> In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) >>>> >>>>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) >>>> >>>> You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. >>>> >>>> Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. >>>> >>>>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? >>>> >>>> If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. >>>> >>>> If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. >>>> >>>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: >>>> >>>> 1. They really need a certain feature >>>> >>>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) >>>> >>>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>> >>>> - Hans >>>> >>>> On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Hans -- >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your reply. >>>>> >>>>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? >>>>> >>>>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. >>>>> >>>>> And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? >>>>> >>>>> "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" >>>>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... >>>>> >>>>> "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." >>>>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Shamil, >>>>>> >>>>>> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web& mobile development. >>>>>> >>>>>> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts& bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. >>>>>> >>>>>> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. >>>>>> >>>>>> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. >>>>>> >>>>>> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). >>>>>> >>>>>> - Hans >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hans -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Than you for your remark. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Shamil >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Shamil, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Hans >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jim, John at all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. >>>>>>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> .Now take >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- Shamil >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence": >>>>>>>>>> John: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with >>>>>>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case >>>>>>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. >>>>>>>>>> ;-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is >>>>>>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the >>>>>>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have >>>>>>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have >>>>>>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so >>>>>>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have >>>>>>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 13:50:52 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:50:52 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?New_SQL_Server_license_scheme_is_RADICALLLY_m?= =?utf-8?q?oreexpensive?= In-Reply-To: <4EC55C87.3010206@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC55C87.3010206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Sorry, John, for misleading URL I have posted, I can't get at Access-D archives - I meant this your original posting: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< From: jwcolby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving , Sqlserver-Dba 12 November 2011, 18:28 http://sqlserverperformance.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sql-server-2012-licensing-and-hardware-considerations/ The full retail license cost per physical core is $6874.00 for SQL Server 2012 Enterprise Edition. I cannot imagine that there will not be a huge backlash about this from clients and massive switching to MySQL and the likes. I know that I will never purchase SQL Server 2010. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17 ?????? 2011, 23:13 ?? jwcolby : > Your link takes me to a n email login screen in Russia. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/17/2011 2:00 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hi John -- > > > > Thank you for your clarification - from you original post > > > > http://e.mail.ru/cgi-bin/msglist?542573152=&folder=0#readmsg?id=13211081120000000542&folder=3 > > > > it wasn't clear for me that you're talking about particular client considering probable moving out of using MS Windows and MS database (Access or SQL) backends, and so I mistakenly implied you're going to rework you mighty "data crunching" system to use mySQL... > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 17 ?????? 2011, 21:01 ?? jwcolby: > >> Shamil, > >> > >> If you read my original post closely you will see that it a client bringing up a new server, *not* > >> my server here at my home office which is where I run the custom written C# program and SQL Server BE. > >> > >> As I think I stated in my original post, this client is at a transition point. They have to select > >> an OS and a database engine. Their system uses Access backends, which we have split into many files > >> due to size constraints. > >> > >> So for *this client* it is appropriate to study which route makes more sense. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> Colby Consulting > >> > >> Reality is what refuses to go away > >> when you do not believe in it > >> > >> On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>> Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > >>> > >>> Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > >>> > >>> I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > >>> I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > >>> > >>> How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > >>> How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > >>> Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > >>> Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > >>> What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > >>> Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > >>> .... etc ... > >>> > >>> IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > >>> > >>> You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > >>> > >>> I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > >>> > >>> Hans you noted: > >>> > >>> <<<<<<<<<<< > >>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > >>> > >>> 1. They really need a certain feature > >>> > >>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > >>> > >>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>> > >>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > >>> > >>> As Darryl writes: > >>> > >>> <<<< > >>> In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access > >>>>>>> > >>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > >>> > >>> I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > >>> > >>> Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > >>> I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >>> > >>> P.S. FYI: "Where Linux crushes Windows like a bug: Supercomputers" > >>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/where-linux-crushes-windows-like-a-bug-supercomputers/9890 > >>> > >>> 16 ?????? 2011, 21:45 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>> > >>>> Hi Shamil, > >>>> > >>>>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > >>>> > >>>> I am not the sort of person who advocates that product A is better then product B, simply because it is free and open source. Likewise, I do not believe that product B is better than product A, simply because you paid for it. I believe that open source and proprietary software can co-exist. You just need to know what your needs are and what the pros/cons are to using either product. > >>>> > >>>> In my opinion, the point of open source is to raise the bar, so that proprietary software vendors feel the pressure to maintain their competitiveness rather than stifle markets with their monopoly. > >>>> > >>>>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > >>>> > >>>> In that case, I will include the hidden costs. But I should warn you, it will get ugly! :) > >>>> > >>>>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) > >>>> > >>>> You will need to give me a good example of where this is true for open source databases. Both PostgreSQL and MySQL export to pure SQL dumped into a text file, rather than in a proprietary binary format. > >>>> > >>>> Btw, T-SQL is proprietary to Microsoft/Sybase, so no other product will be able to fulfill your needs, if T-SQL is what you absolutely must have. > >>>> > >>>>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions? > >>>> > >>>> If that's the case, then why pay for support? It would bring your TCO down and lower costs for your clients. > >>>> > >>>> If you want to seriously go over the TCO of MySQL vs MS-SQL or PHP/Python/Ruby/Whatnot vs C#/.NET, we could surely come up with some sort of conclusion. But, I personally don't think it would prove anything and it would be complicated (different TCOs for different use cases). When it boils down to it, they are all beneficial for their own reasons and, if they weren't, no one would be using them. > >>>> > >>>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > >>>> > >>>> 1. They really need a certain feature > >>>> > >>>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > >>>> > >>>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>> > >>>> - Hans > >>>> > >>>> On 2011-11-16, at 12:51 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Hans -- > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you for your reply. > >>>>> > >>>>> But "red herring" for me would be exactly stating that mySQL is a better alternative for MS SQL because it's "free" and open source, wouldn't it? > >>>>> > >>>>> I could be not quite accurate when talking about TCO, which for you doesn't include "hidden costs"(?) - for me that "TCO" does also include hidden costs. > >>>>> > >>>>> And you approve my point of view/wild guess: "but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!)." - don't you? > >>>>> > >>>>> "There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology" > >>>>> Hans, I suppose, it's just partially true these days (as it's true for other companies including the ones, which develop and distribute open sources software) - they (MS) lock yourself in their technology as much as you wanted to be locked :) I mean that. Please do not accept me "locked by MS" - if I'd switch/use in parallel any other (development) technologies if that would be needed/requested by my customers and if that would be more profitable for my customers than using MS technologies.... > >>>>> > >>>>> "That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL." > >>>>> I can tell the same from my and my customers experience: MS SQL and .NET Framework (all the main technologies within it) are very stable products, I have never had any problems that required urgent support if that only weren't a few bugs I occasionally left in my business applications solutions... > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> 16 ?????? 2011, 02:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Shamil, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I can't give you any exact figures for comparison, as I have never had to manage identical projects side by side to give a definitive account. Also, I would just like to point out that I am only really qualified to give you an answer that relates to web& mobile development. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Personally, though, I think the topic of TCO is a bit of a red herring. Businesses typically buy products / packages, not databases and the nuts& bolts so to speak, and therefore they are purchased through vendors, who then provide the support for the product and each component in the system. That is, unless you happen to be a company that sells a product that relies on MySQL or whatnot, in which case, MySQL and such will typically have support licenses. Not only that, but many 3rd party companies exist to provide support offerings, so there is that competitive element to it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> That said, MySQL (and other projects like PHP and so forth) are very very stable products. I've never had a problem that required support from MySQL. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Finally, the cost of development is largely going to be about salaries. I've looked at sites like itjobswatch.co.uk and found that in almost every category, Microsoft developers / admins / etc demand a higher price. There are a few notable exceptions, but then you realize "oh, when they are talking about Linux, they are also talking about kernel developers, while for Windows, it is simply just Windows certified admins". So some things can't really be directly compared. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Licenses, well, open source software is free, so you can guess how that compares. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Ultimately though, I just want to say (and the point I was trying to make in my earlier email) is that this discussion really revolves around the type of software / product we are talking about. TCO for an open source project like MySQL may be extremely low compared to Microsoft in most cases, but if you start doing anything very particular, costs may go up and it may suddenly make more sense to go with Microsoft (it's always best to anticipate your needs in advance though!). If you want to talk about specific numbers, we probably also need to be specific about the scenario. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> There are also a lot of negatives about going with Microsoft technology that you don't normally get with open source, for instance how I find Microsoft tends to try to lock you in to their technology (ie. I found exporting data from MSSQL to MySQL to be quite a hurdle, while the importing tools from MySQL to MSSQL to be rather good, hah), but I'll leave that to another discussion as it doesn't directly relate to TCO (but it's a hidden cost, in my opinion). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - Hans > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 2011-11-15, at 9:58 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hans -- > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Than you for your remark. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sorry, but I'm talking about "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO) (long run costs - license, development, support etc.) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> .NET/C# (VS2010) + MS SQL vs. mySQL + ... (?)..... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I haven 't seen any real figures - did you? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> My feeling is that .NET/C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL TCO is (considerably) lower even with that high license costs as JC quotes... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thank you. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 12:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Shamil, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Of course you need to evaluate what product you are building to decide what the cost vs. benefits are. However, I would just like to add that Qt is an excellent development platform and, not only that, but it is also natively cross platform (without being java! ha!). But there are, of course, many benefits to using Microsofts "platform" of tools. The unfortunate truth is that some applications still need to be made native (or close to it) and Microsoft still has a stranglehold in the desktop market, so going in that direction can still make a lot of sense. That's the world we live in now though. No longer is there a simple solution to everything, but many different angles to approach a problem and you need to be well versed enough to know which is best to take and what the pros/cons are. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> - Hans > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 2011-11-14, at 11:28 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Jim, John at all, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> That's is an interesting discussion. > >>>>>>>>> But did you ever try to compare development and support costs of > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> MS SQL + .NET vs. mySQL + ...? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I must note I know almost nothing about Linux development tools, but I have worked in the past for a long time on IBM360/370 and PDP11 RSX-11M so JCL, command line, and macro-assembler (especially great for IBM360/370) and PL./1 and and pure C or C++ or Pascal development with file systems or network (CODASYL) or relational databases without rich backend-level data definition and manipulation tool - I have my own experience to evaluate how much time all that development takes... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> .Now take > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> C# 4.0 (VS2010) + MS SQL with T-SQL with SPs and UDF vs. mySQL + ... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> - wouldn't MS SQL license costs be covered manifold by higher Linux development and support costs? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> And I'm not talking/meaning Web site development where becoming standards HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript would make Windows and Linux development and support costs comparable(?) I'm talking about development of desktop custom business applications... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Thank you. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> 15 ?????? 2011, 08:13 ?? "Jim Lawrence": > >>>>>>>>>> John: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> All I can say is talk to Hans as he has made it his career to work with > >>>>>>>>>> Linux systems (about 10 years now) and I am sure he would help in the case > >>>>>>>>>> that you ever became completely stuck. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> It is nice of me to volunteer his services like that but he will understand. > >>>>>>>>>> ;-) > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> To be honest, Linux is not as difficult as it first looks. My next client is > >>>>>>>>>> asking for an inexpensive alternative to their current Windows system as the > >>>>>>>>>> prices, for the same, have slowly crept beyond their ability to pay. I have > >>>>>>>>>> suggested Linux and they are currently reviewing it and so far they have > >>>>>>>>>> encounter no real reasons to stay put. (I am paid a flat rate so > >>>>>>>>>> implementation will not be any more expensive than the current contract.) > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> They have already, cautiously moved their MS Office to Open Office and have > >>>>>>>>>> found they had little trouble adjusting. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Jim > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ) > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 17 14:23:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:23:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <63724C1DCACC4A87B028141C6138BA7A@creativesystemdesigns.com> That is exactly how I set things as I have done this many times before. Maybe I may have over-looked this process once or twice but when it starts happening more on a continuous bases I starting suspecting the previous updates assistance. I have now learned after each update to go and turn-off auto-updates but I am caught occasionally. All I want it to is just stay off, period. I can understand auto-updates being the default setting on workstations but having the same on servers is crazy. IMHO, Auto-update for servers does not need to exist. Jim PS My current versions of Linux, do regular updates, always asks to start, rarely requires a reboot and always asks when it does. That process works for me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 11:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Hi Jim et al Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: "Install updates automatically (recommended)" instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> Hi John: One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but through some MS Update that setting was modified. I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data that I knew anything was wrong. >From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 17 14:29:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:29:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <789EF360B9B14964B970FBC3C6554F00@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Gustav: I would like to see a feature accompanying the update process that will email me when an urgent issue requires user intervention... Is there such a product out there or some hidden feature in the MS OS? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Hi Hans Yes, that is strange. Or does a category "Extremely urgent updates that overrules setting for later install" for updates exist? /gustav >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 17-11-2011 09:09 >>> Hej Gustav, Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Jim et al > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority server expected to run 24/7: > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > /gustav > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > Hi John: > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual but > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have a > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his data > that I knew anything was wrong. > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 14:34:40 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 00:34:40 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?TOC_MySQL_vs_SQL_Server?= In-Reply-To: <4EC55BFB.1080506@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC55BFB.1080506@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John -- Well, you use SQL backend mainly as a "dumb" relational engine, no (advanced) server side static T-SQL Stored Procedures, no T-SQL User Defined Functions simulating "virtual" tables?.... And quite a few of custom client side metadata driven C# coding to build dynamic SQL, advanced custom UI framework etc.? Then your transition to mySQL: should be probably rather smooth... But if you use MS SQL/ .NET SQLBulkLoad classes then you might need to substitute them with custom coding ... I do it different way when using MS SQL: I'm trying to keep as much as possible business rules and logic on server side implemented in Stored Procedures, User Defined Functions, Views etc. By doing it that way I can keep my client side layer as thin and as dumb as possible, and my C# business layer not overloaded with custom "plumbing" etc. Advantages: clear "separations of concerns" of different application system layers, streamlined coding, relatively low support and functionality extensions costs, possibility to have all kinds of modern UIs using the same core business and data layers, as MS software supports all the modern UI-development technologies ... Disadvantages: I'm "bound" to MS SQL back-end... But nor I nor my customers do not care about that binding as it doesn't limit any way our freedom to support and to extend current solutions, and my customers do not yet have that much data to not fit one MS SQL Express database, even customer with more than 8000 users of an ASP.NET web site running for four years without any serious issues ... When my customers will need more processing power then we will probably move to a hosting site/cloud.... If you can split your databases into many smaller databases then you can also put them on hosting sites and "wrap" by web services still running using MS Windows, and then make your application consolidating that data - I guess it wouldn't be needed to get gigabytes of data retrieved to your client layer during such consolidation?... Thank you. -- Shamil 17 ?????? 2011, 23:11 ?? jwcolby : > Shamil, > > OK, so now that we understand that it is in fact a client's new server that I was discussing > originally, let's go ahead and discuss doing the same thing here at my home office. > > First take a look at this article: > > http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/move_from_microsoft_SQL_Server.html > > It would appear that I could in fact run MySQL right on my existing server should I so desire. > > I have built my mongo server around Windows 2008 and SQL Server 2008. I have written a custom C# > application which performs massive table updates every month. Due to the fact that the server runs > an X64 version of windows and I installed an X64 version of Visual Studio on the server, and the > fact that the X64 version does not support "edit and continue", I actually run the C# application on > vmDev which runs an X32 version of Visual Studio. > > The application runs on a VM and the actual database manipulations run on the X64 server. The > application, written in C#, executes dynamic SQL on the server, getting back results. > > If I needed to, what would be the "costs" to move to MySQL? The question becomes: > > 1) Cost to install and come up to speed on MySQL. > 2) The complexity (time) to move the data from SQL Server to MSSql. > 3) What is involved in porting the code to use dynamic SQL that MySQL supports? > > In my case the databases I manipulate are not very complex. Typically each database has two or a > few tables. I am not using stored procedures in SQL Server, in fact I have intentionally migrated > away from doing so (I used to). My "stored procedures" are now C# routines and dynamic SQL. I find > C# much more flexible as a language and find no need for stored procedures *for this application*. > > My take on migrating this application to MySQL is that I would not hesitate to do so if I needed to, > and I do not currently need to. I do not need to run the C# code itself on the server so even if > the database or MySQL were hosted on Linux, I could still probably run my application, assuming the > Dynamic SQL port. > > After the migration, the TCO seems to be similar, or perhaps lower than an MS only solution since > SQL Server licensing costs go away. If I were to migrate to Linux then Windows licensing costs go > away. These are not insubstantial costs. I do not use Linux or MySQL so I cannot speak with > authority but they both appear to have reached the point where they are not rocket science, or any > more so that maintaining Windows server software is. > > I am really exploring this more in the context of future business. MS licensing is already so > convoluted and costly that small businesses are protesting server based systems. They used to use > Access and I used to recommend Access, be and fe, but am I going to continue doing so? I think not. > > So what do I recommend when MS wants $10K to $20K for the Windows / SQL Server licenses for a new > server? For the small businesses I work for this is a large chunk of change. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > > > > Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > > > > I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > > I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > > > > How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > > How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > > Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > > Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > > What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > > Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > > .... etc ... > > > > IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > > > > You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > > > > I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > > > > Hans you noted: > > > > <<<<<<<<<<< > > But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > > > > 1. They really need a certain feature > > > > 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > > > > 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > > > > As Darryl writes: > > > > <<<< > > In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access > >>>>> > > I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > > > > I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > > > > Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > > I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Nov 17 14:48:06 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:48:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services Environment References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: We are thinking about running Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services environment. Our Access development work would be done on a separate PC that has the "Full Version" of Access 2010. This approach is new to us and I am curious if others have tried this. Are there any issues that we should be aware of? Thanks, Brad From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Nov 17 14:50:31 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:50:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] TOC MySQL vs SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4EC55BFB.1080506@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0A20F3EC-FBF6-4150-9011-8CD69F63C5AE@phulse.com> This is my biggest issue with stored procedures. I like them in theory, but it creates an additional layer of complexity for your application/project and is less maintainable from a developers point of view - especially when you work in teams. I prefer to simply go with the philosophy which is that your business logic stays entirely in your code and you use whatever features your DBAL / ORM can provide. But this is what works for us in a CRUD + MVC environment. I guess, for a DBA, it makes more sense. - Hans On 2011-11-17, at 12:34 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > John -- > > Well, you use SQL backend mainly as a "dumb" relational engine, no (advanced) server side static T-SQL Stored Procedures, no T-SQL User Defined Functions simulating "virtual" tables?.... > And quite a few of custom client side metadata driven C# coding to build dynamic SQL, advanced custom UI framework etc.? > > Then your transition to mySQL: should be probably rather smooth... > But if you use MS SQL/ .NET SQLBulkLoad classes then you might need to substitute them with custom coding > ... > > I do it different way when using MS SQL: I'm trying to keep as much as possible business rules and logic on server side implemented in Stored Procedures, User Defined Functions, Views etc. By doing it that way I can keep my client side layer as thin and as dumb as possible, and my C# business layer not overloaded with custom "plumbing" etc. > > Advantages: clear "separations of concerns" of different application system layers, streamlined coding, relatively low support and functionality extensions costs, possibility to have all kinds of modern UIs using the same core business and data layers, as MS software supports all the modern UI-development technologies ... > > Disadvantages: I'm "bound" to MS SQL back-end... > > But nor I nor my customers do not care about that binding as it doesn't limit any way our freedom to support and to extend current solutions, and my customers do not yet have that much data to not fit one MS SQL Express database, even customer with more than 8000 users of an ASP.NET web site running for four years without any serious issues ... > > When my customers will need more processing power then we will probably move to a hosting site/cloud.... > > If you can split your databases into many smaller databases then you can also put them on hosting sites and "wrap" by web services still running using MS Windows, and then make your application consolidating that data - I guess it wouldn't be needed to get gigabytes of data retrieved to your client layer during such consolidation?... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 17 ?????? 2011, 23:11 ?? jwcolby : >> Shamil, >> >> OK, so now that we understand that it is in fact a client's new server that I was discussing >> originally, let's go ahead and discuss doing the same thing here at my home office. >> >> First take a look at this article: >> >> http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/move_from_microsoft_SQL_Server.html >> >> It would appear that I could in fact run MySQL right on my existing server should I so desire. >> >> I have built my mongo server around Windows 2008 and SQL Server 2008. I have written a custom C# >> application which performs massive table updates every month. Due to the fact that the server runs >> an X64 version of windows and I installed an X64 version of Visual Studio on the server, and the >> fact that the X64 version does not support "edit and continue", I actually run the C# application on >> vmDev which runs an X32 version of Visual Studio. >> >> The application runs on a VM and the actual database manipulations run on the X64 server. The >> application, written in C#, executes dynamic SQL on the server, getting back results. >> >> If I needed to, what would be the "costs" to move to MySQL? The question becomes: >> >> 1) Cost to install and come up to speed on MySQL. >> 2) The complexity (time) to move the data from SQL Server to MSSql. >> 3) What is involved in porting the code to use dynamic SQL that MySQL supports? >> >> In my case the databases I manipulate are not very complex. Typically each database has two or a >> few tables. I am not using stored procedures in SQL Server, in fact I have intentionally migrated >> away from doing so (I used to). My "stored procedures" are now C# routines and dynamic SQL. I find >> C# much more flexible as a language and find no need for stored procedures *for this application*. >> >> My take on migrating this application to MySQL is that I would not hesitate to do so if I needed to, >> and I do not currently need to. I do not need to run the C# code itself on the server so even if >> the database or MySQL were hosted on Linux, I could still probably run my application, assuming the >> Dynamic SQL port. >> >> After the migration, the TCO seems to be similar, or perhaps lower than an MS only solution since >> SQL Server licensing costs go away. If I were to migrate to Linux then Windows licensing costs go >> away. These are not insubstantial costs. I do not use Linux or MySQL so I cannot speak with >> authority but they both appear to have reached the point where they are not rocket science, or any >> more so that maintaining Windows server software is. >> >> I am really exploring this more in the context of future business. MS licensing is already so >> convoluted and costly that small businesses are protesting server based systems. They used to use >> Access and I used to recommend Access, be and fe, but am I going to continue doing so? I think not. >> >> So what do I recommend when MS wants $10K to $20K for the Windows / SQL Server licenses for a new >> server? For the small businesses I work for this is a large chunk of change. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>> Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- >>> >>> Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... >>> >>> I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. >>> I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. >>> >>> How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? >>> How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? >>> Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? >>> Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? >>> What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? >>> Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? >>> .... etc ... >>> >>> IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. >>> >>> You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. >>> >>> I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... >>> >>> Hans you noted: >>> >>> <<<<<<<<<<< >>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: >>> >>> 1. They really need a certain feature >>> >>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) >>> >>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. >>> >>> As Darryl writes: >>> >>> <<<< >>> In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access >>>>>>> >>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. >>> >>> I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. >>> >>> Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... >>> I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Nov 17 15:12:08 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:12:08 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheetto a JPG File References: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A7857C@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> <4EC435F0.21723.28A8EFA1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: All, Thanks for the assistance, I appreciate it. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 4:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheetto a JPG File Well blow me down, who'd a thunk it? Worksheets("Sheet1").Range("A1:D4").CopyPicture xlScreen, xlBitmap Once you have the image on the clipboard, you can use the example OleCreatePictureIndirect() code directly in Access to do it. -- Stuart On 16 Nov 2011 at 21:33, Martin Reid wrote: > Or > > See this thread > > http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233108 > > Martin > > Sent from my Windows Phone > ________________________________ > From: Stuart McLachlan > Sent: 16/11/2011 21:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - Excel "Automation" Exporting a Spreadsheet to a JPG File > > I sincerely doubt it is possible within the Excel object model. A chart is essential a Windows > Graphic control (a bitmap), exporting that as a graphic is trivial. An Excel spreadsheet is > essentially a Listview control, that's a whole different kettle of fish. > > -- > Stuart > > On 16 Nov 2011 at 13:40, Brad Marks wrote: > > > Folks, > > > > I have recently been experimenting with "Windows Automation" to control Excel from Access. > > > > I have had quite a bit of success and fun with this realm with several key questions being answered here on AccessD. > > > > In one of my tests, I am exporting an Excel chart to a jpg file. This works nicely using this command. > > > > XLChart.Export FileName:=StrPath, Filtername:="JPG" > > > > > > > > I now would like to find out if it is possible to export a small Excel spreadsheet itself to a JPG file. (5 columns, 2 rows). > > > > I have not been able to find a way to do this. > > > > Thanks for your help and advice. > > > > Sincerely, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 15:37:00 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 01:37:00 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?TOC_MySQL_vs_SQL_Server?= In-Reply-To: <0A20F3EC-FBF6-4150-9011-8CD69F63C5AE@phulse.com> References: <0A20F3EC-FBF6-4150-9011-8CD69F63C5AE@phulse.com> Message-ID: Hans -- We obviously are on "different sides of barricades" concerning the question "dumb" vs. "smart' SQL backend :) If we can agree to neglect all the "hype buzz" of "developing once run on many types of backends (Access, MS SQL, mySQL,)" then can we try to evaluate from practical point of view what is more manageable/affordable to develop/have ?: 1) "dumb" backend and business layer logic concentrated in custom (C#) layer coding or 2) "as smart as possible" backend with as dumb as as possible business layer logic implemented in custom (C#) coding... Myself and yourself I suppose are basing our practice on the same conceptual point of view that there is no absolute truth and that every (technical) solutions is a "balance of interests" but we obviously keep rather different development practices. I'd expect we would not come to a common ground/any positive definitive useful in practice outcome if we will start "darting" each other saying that "A is better than B because ...." - we will very probably end up in set of useless(?) fallacies http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/index.html#index So I'd propose if you and others are interested in discussing (1) and (2) approaches outlined above just to create a list of "emotions-free" advantages and disadvantages of both approaches. Then "armored" with such lists one can make a balanced decision what approach better suites their own experiences, practices, custom requirements... Rhetoric question: Why keeping business logic in custom code but not in (as much as possible) backend SPs and UDFs is more maintainable from a developer point of view, especially if you work in teams? I do use MVC concept for a long time, you can note I have used and promoted it even in VBA - so called "DEEP object concept (1998)" but for me MVC doesn't force me to put business logic in code when it could be kept on backend side: additional abstraction layer does create some more complexity but it gives a lot more flexibility in implementing all kinds of clients without any biding to custom object layer, and it keeps as much as possible data processing on SQL Server side.... Please note I'm not stating my approach is better than yours in all contexts, and that I'm never using "dumb" backends in my solutions but I do always try to develop "smart" backend when that is possible and that happens in most cases of my practice... Thank you. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 00:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > > This is my biggest issue with stored procedures. I like them in theory, but it creates an additional layer of complexity for your application/project and is less maintainable from a developers point of view - especially when you work in teams. I prefer to simply go with the philosophy which is that your business logic stays entirely in your code and you use whatever features your DBAL / ORM can provide. But this is what works for us in a CRUD + MVC environment. I guess, for a DBA, it makes more sense. > > - Hans > > On 2011-11-17, at 12:34 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > John -- > > > > Well, you use SQL backend mainly as a "dumb" relational engine, no (advanced) server side static T-SQL Stored Procedures, no T-SQL User Defined Functions simulating "virtual" tables?.... > > And quite a few of custom client side metadata driven C# coding to build dynamic SQL, advanced custom UI framework etc.? > > > > Then your transition to mySQL: should be probably rather smooth... > > But if you use MS SQL/ .NET SQLBulkLoad classes then you might need to substitute them with custom coding > > ... > > > > I do it different way when using MS SQL: I'm trying to keep as much as possible business rules and logic on server side implemented in Stored Procedures, User Defined Functions, Views etc. By doing it that way I can keep my client side layer as thin and as dumb as possible, and my C# business layer not overloaded with custom "plumbing" etc. > > > > Advantages: clear "separations of concerns" of different application system layers, streamlined coding, relatively low support and functionality extensions costs, possibility to have all kinds of modern UIs using the same core business and data layers, as MS software supports all the modern UI-development technologies ... > > > > Disadvantages: I'm "bound" to MS SQL back-end... > > > > But nor I nor my customers do not care about that binding as it doesn't limit any way our freedom to support and to extend current solutions, and my customers do not yet have that much data to not fit one MS SQL Express database, even customer with more than 8000 users of an ASP.NET web site running for four years without any serious issues ... > > > > When my customers will need more processing power then we will probably move to a hosting site/cloud.... > > > > If you can split your databases into many smaller databases then you can also put them on hosting sites and "wrap" by web services still running using MS Windows, and then make your application consolidating that data - I guess it wouldn't be needed to get gigabytes of data retrieved to your client layer during such consolidation?... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > 17 ?????? 2011, 23:11 ?? jwcolby : > >> Shamil, > >> > >> OK, so now that we understand that it is in fact a client's new server that I was discussing > >> originally, let's go ahead and discuss doing the same thing here at my home office. > >> > >> First take a look at this article: > >> > >> http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/move_from_microsoft_SQL_Server.html > >> > >> It would appear that I could in fact run MySQL right on my existing server should I so desire. > >> > >> I have built my mongo server around Windows 2008 and SQL Server 2008. I have written a custom C# > >> application which performs massive table updates every month. Due to the fact that the server runs > >> an X64 version of windows and I installed an X64 version of Visual Studio on the server, and the > >> fact that the X64 version does not support "edit and continue", I actually run the C# application on > >> vmDev which runs an X32 version of Visual Studio. > >> > >> The application runs on a VM and the actual database manipulations run on the X64 server. The > >> application, written in C#, executes dynamic SQL on the server, getting back results. > >> > >> If I needed to, what would be the "costs" to move to MySQL? The question becomes: > >> > >> 1) Cost to install and come up to speed on MySQL. > >> 2) The complexity (time) to move the data from SQL Server to MSSql. > >> 3) What is involved in porting the code to use dynamic SQL that MySQL supports? > >> > >> In my case the databases I manipulate are not very complex. Typically each database has two or a > >> few tables. I am not using stored procedures in SQL Server, in fact I have intentionally migrated > >> away from doing so (I used to). My "stored procedures" are now C# routines and dynamic SQL. I find > >> C# much more flexible as a language and find no need for stored procedures *for this application*. > >> > >> My take on migrating this application to MySQL is that I would not hesitate to do so if I needed to, > >> and I do not currently need to. I do not need to run the C# code itself on the server so even if > >> the database or MySQL were hosted on Linux, I could still probably run my application, assuming the > >> Dynamic SQL port. > >> > >> After the migration, the TCO seems to be similar, or perhaps lower than an MS only solution since > >> SQL Server licensing costs go away. If I were to migrate to Linux then Windows licensing costs go > >> away. These are not insubstantial costs. I do not use Linux or MySQL so I cannot speak with > >> authority but they both appear to have reached the point where they are not rocket science, or any > >> more so that maintaining Windows server software is. > >> > >> I am really exploring this more in the context of future business. MS licensing is already so > >> convoluted and costly that small businesses are protesting server based systems. They used to use > >> Access and I used to recommend Access, be and fe, but am I going to continue doing so? I think not. > >> > >> So what do I recommend when MS wants $10K to $20K for the Windows / SQL Server licenses for a new > >> server? For the small businesses I work for this is a large chunk of change. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> Colby Consulting > >> > >> Reality is what refuses to go away > >> when you do not believe in it > >> > >> On 11/17/2011 9:34 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>> Hi Hans, Jim, John, Darryl at all -- > >>> > >>> Sorry I didn't reply promptly on your postings here - I have had to release a solution to my customer... > >>> > >>> I do not state that mySQL or Linux are not worth to consider - that would sound really silly. > >>> I'm just trying to keep to discuss this thread practical case when JC's is going to "jump at" mySQL after three years(?) of building his mighty computing environment with MS SQL being the core of it AFAIU. > >>> > >>> How much time it will take for JC to setup the new environment? > >>> How much time the transition of JC's large database will take? > >>> Will existing code work "automagically" with the new backend? > >>> Aren't there other ways to use MS SQL on multi-core servers having just one core used for MS SQL and others for custom (code) data processing? > >>> What "hidden side-effects" JC is going to meet during transition? > >>> Who will pay (the bills) for that transition? > >>> .... etc ... > >>> > >>> IOW there is no any "red herring" coming from here IMO. > >>> > >>> You know I'm not anymore that excited about learning new and new technologies as hobby - I'm much more excited about "getting things done" and my bills paid in time. > >>> > >>> I agree with Jim that these are interesting times our (custom) software development industry is entering nowadays - maybe even more interesting and exciting than 80-ies and 90-ies - but I'd disagree that without knowing Linux and mySQL and being "pure MS shop" one takes themselves at risk of getting out of market (let's not discuss that my point of view here as it could become OT with all the parties keeping their point of views unchanged....) - after all MS development tools cover/support most of the modern widely used desktop and web development technologies and web/cloud hosting costs are comparable for Windows and Linux and there are a lot of open source software and information for "MS-tied" developers... > >>> > >>> Hans you noted: > >>> > >>> <<<<<<<<<<< > >>> But, in my opinion, more often than not, there are 3 essential reasons why people use the product they have: > >>> > >>> 1. They really need a certain feature > >>> > >>> 2. They are required to use that product (by a third party) > >>> > >>> 3. Or simply that they feel most comfortable using said product. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>> > >>> I agree but for JC real life case all the three above positions seems to be questionable IMO. > >>> > >>> As Darryl writes: > >>> > >>> <<<< > >>> In reality we use a whole stack of software tools, From Excel, Access, SQL Server Express to dedicated mining software with GemcomWhittle and Surpac. The plan was not so much to replace SQL Server Express, but replace it for this job and see how it works. If MySQL has the grunt and space to get a result then I will use it this time. It may not be the best tool for next time. We really do use the best tool for the dataset we have. Sometimes that is Excel, although it usually is Access > >>>>>>> > >>> I agree of course but again for JC certain case IMO "hurrying to jump at mySQL backend" without trying to evaluate other alternatives while "staying at MS field" sounds questionable here. > >>> > >>> I can be wrong, life and JC practice will (soon) show was that worth to abandon MS SQL for ***one of his projects*** of not. > >>> > >>> Sorry John I'm referring your case - feel free to stop this discussion thread you started if you don't want to discuss it in this direction... > >>> I could have misunderstood your intentions and very probably you're just going to "test the waters" there with mySQL and if it will not be "deep" for you then you'll make the full well planned transition paid by your customer - I'd have done the same... but after I'd have found I can't keep using MS SQL for a certain project/customer as it becomes too expensive to be true... > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- Shamil > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 17 15:45:42 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:45:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services Environment In-Reply-To: References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <005001cca572$41abe1a0$c503a4e0$@net> Your only challenge might be to keep the two environments synched as far as versions go. I'm not sure the issue of the run-time aways being the same as the full-version was resolved...was it ? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 3:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services > Environment > > We are thinking about running Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal > Services > environment. > > Our Access development work would be done on a separate PC that has the > "Full Version" of Access 2010. > > This approach is new to us and I am curious if others have tried this. > > Are there any issues that we should be aware of? > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Nov 17 15:58:48 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 01:58:48 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?How_to_configure_WUA_=28was=3A_New_SQL_Server?= =?utf-8?b?CWxpY2Vuc2UJc2NoZW1lIC4uLik=?= In-Reply-To: <789EF360B9B14964B970FBC3C6554F00@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <789EF360B9B14964B970FBC3C6554F00@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim, Windows Management Instrumentation based solution could work for you I suppose - here is a bunch of URLs: C#/WMI: How to remotely check if Windows has updates ready to be installed? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3615895/c-wmi-how-to-remotely-check-if-windows-has-updates-ready-to-be-installed How to monitor Windows Update Status via WMI? http://www.paessler.com/knowledgebase/en/topic/3453-how-to-monitor-windows-update-status-via-wmi WMI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Management_Instrumentation WBEM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web-Based_Enterprise_Management CIM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Information_Model_(computing) WMI Explorer http://www.ks-soft.net/hostmon.eng/wmi/index.htm LINQ to WMI http://linq2wmi.codeplex.com/ .. Thank you. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 00:31 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Hi Gustav: > > I would like to see a feature accompanying the update process that will > email me when an urgent issue requires user intervention... > > Is there such a product out there or some hidden feature in the MS OS? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:07 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license > scheme ...) > > Hi Hans > > Yes, that is strange. Or does a category "Extremely urgent updates that > overrules setting for later install" for updates exist? > > /gustav > > >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 17-11-2011 09:09 >>> > Hej Gustav, > > Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to > download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? > > Best regards, > Hans-Christian Andersen > > On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > > > Hi Jim et al > > > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for > Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority > server expected to run 24/7: > > > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > > Hi John: > > > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual > but > > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have > a > > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his > data > > that I knew anything was wrong. > > > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 17 16:40:43 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:40:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) In-Reply-To: References: <789EF360B9B14964B970FBC3C6554F00@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <285AD12C0F9C4279942930B437AB4548@creativesystemdesigns.com> Thanks Shamil...I will definitely look into this. No more surprise reboots would be a real plus. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license scheme ...) Hi Jim, Windows Management Instrumentation based solution could work for you I suppose - here is a bunch of URLs: C#/WMI: How to remotely check if Windows has updates ready to be installed? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3615895/c-wmi-how-to-remotely-check-if-wi ndows-has-updates-ready-to-be-installed How to monitor Windows Update Status via WMI? http://www.paessler.com/knowledgebase/en/topic/3453-how-to-monitor-windows-u pdate-status-via-wmi WMI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Management_Instrumentation WBEM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web-Based_Enterprise_Management CIM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Information_Model_(computing) WMI Explorer http://www.ks-soft.net/hostmon.eng/wmi/index.htm LINQ to WMI http://linq2wmi.codeplex.com/ .. Thank you. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 00:31 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Hi Gustav: > > I would like to see a feature accompanying the update process that will > email me when an urgent issue requires user intervention... > > Is there such a product out there or some hidden feature in the MS OS? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:07 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How to configure WUA (was: New SQL Server license > scheme ...) > > Hi Hans > > Yes, that is strange. Or does a category "Extremely urgent updates that > overrules setting for later install" for updates exist? > > /gustav > > >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 17-11-2011 09:09 >>> > Hej Gustav, > > Believe me. I've had a look at Jims server in the past. It was configured to > download but choose when to install them. Strange isn't it? > > Best regards, > Hans-Christian Andersen > > On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:51, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > > > Hi Jim et al > > > > Well well, relax ... don't blame MSFT, blame he/she who has configured for > Important Updates "How Windows can install updates" to: > > > > "Install updates automatically (recommended)" > > > > instead of picking the setting appropriate for a managed high-priority > server expected to run 24/7: > > > > "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them" > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 16-11-2011 23:18 >>> > > Hi John: > > > > One example, last weekend that particularly annoyed me was that my Server > > 2008 rebooted without asking. It had been set that upgrades were manual > but > > through some MS Update that setting was modified. > > > > I am sure the server was prompting me with a reboot, in ten minutes type > > request, but I was not there to observe it so the server rebooted. I have > a > > MSSQL running on the box and it of course disconnected from my web server. > > It was not until a client and friend called saying he could not see his > data > > that I knew anything was wrong. > > > > From my perspective, unless that box is on fire it should not reboot...and > > it had better not install updates without my explicit agreement. > > > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Nov 18 03:54:41 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:54:41 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Office_365_-_custom_development_using_Excel_C?= =?utf-8?q?alculation_Services_=28ECS=29_and_Word_Automation_Services_=28W?= =?utf-8?b?QVMp?= Message-ID: Hi All -- Does anybody practices subj? Do ECS and WAS available within Office 365 hosting plans? Here are some informational links: Office 365 List of Microsoft Office 365 Service Provider Partners http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/list-of-microsoft-office-365-service-provider-partners/ Minimum System Requirements for Office 365 http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/minimum-system-requirements-for-office-365/ Developing with SharePoint 2010 Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx Developing for SharePoint 2010 Excel Services Using Web Services or the Excel Services REST API http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff640648.aspx Open XML SDK + Office Services: Better Together http://blogs.msdn.com/b/brian_jones/archive/2010/02/26/open-xml-sdk-office-services-better-together.aspx Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Nov 18 06:19:11 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:19:11 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?OT=3A_=22I_feel_your_pain=2C_man!=22_or_=22Pr?= =?utf-8?q?ogrammers_are_most_effective_when_they_avoid_writing_code=2E=2E?= =?utf-8?b?LiI=?= Message-ID: Hi All, This and the other day I have read through and collected a set of links on articles I liked to read about our profession, authored mainly by John D. Cook (http://www.johndcook.com/blog/) and I'd like to share that links with you for your Friday/weekend reading: Enjoy! "... no matter how often you want to play the role of a hero, there will always be circumstances that test the limits of your ability to be one. It?s difficult to judge when helping someone means doing something immoral, and it?s even harder to admit you are unable to solve someone?s problem ? and chances are, that someone will view you as incompetent because you were unable to help them..." Your job is trivial. (But I couldn?t do it.) http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/01/14/your-job-is-trivial-but-i-couldnt-do-it/ Why Can't Programmers.. Program? http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html The buck stops with the programmer http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/19/the-buck-stops-with-the-programmer/ The dark side of linchpins http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/05/10/the-dark-side-of-linchpins/ Do you really want to be indispensable? http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/04/22/being-indispensable/ Where does the programming effort go? http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/18/where-does-the-programming-effort-go/ Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/12/23/why-programmers-are-not-paid-in-proportion-to-their-productivity/ Whatever happened to programming http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/whatever-happened-to-programming/?Programming The plumber programmer http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/11/15/plumber-programmers/ Programming the last mile http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/29/programming-the-last-mile/ It doesn?t pay to be the computer guy http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/11/22/the-computer-guy/ 10 Reasons It Doesn?t Pay To Be ?The Computer Guy? http://www.lifereboot.com/2007/10-reasons-it-doesnt-pay-to-be-the-computer-guy/ Why there will always be programmers http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/10/27/why-there-will-always-be-programmers/ ... Thank you. -- Shamil From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Fri Nov 18 08:14:55 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:14:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] EatBloat latest version?? availability Message-ID: Hi Folks, I've gone through old posts and see references that Dan was working on version 5, also that others were working on a .net version. However, I'm running Acc2003 and am looking for the latest version of the EatBloat routine Was it ever set up on databaseadvisors.com? I looked and didn't find it. Thanks in advance. Jack From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Nov 18 11:30:48 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:30:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most effective when they avoid writing code..." In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <363FB114CEFE4062B345D2BA48A28EC5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Very interesting stuff Shamil. It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and now everything is working. The clients like to see more concern and effort and sometimes fixed something fast can be bad for you as a programmer. This of course why I like a flat rate type insurance-policy support contracts. Sometimes you are not paid for what you do but if you do it right, in the first place, it can go for months with little more than a status report and an invoice. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most effective when they avoid writing code..." Hi All, This and the other day I have read through and collected a set of links on articles I liked to read about our profession, authored mainly by John D. Cook (http://www.johndcook.com/blog/) and I'd like to share that links with you for your Friday/weekend reading: Enjoy! "... no matter how often you want to play the role of a hero, there will always be circumstances that test the limits of your ability to be one. It's difficult to judge when helping someone means doing something immoral, and it's even harder to admit you are unable to solve someone's problem - and chances are, that someone will view you as incompetent because you were unable to help them..." Your job is trivial. (But I couldn't do it.) http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/01/14/your-job-is-trivial-but-i-couldnt-d o-it/ Why Can't Programmers.. Program? http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html The buck stops with the programmer http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/19/the-buck-stops-with-the-programmer/ The dark side of linchpins http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/05/10/the-dark-side-of-linchpins/ Do you really want to be indispensable? http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/04/22/being-indispensable/ Where does the programming effort go? http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/18/where-does-the-programming-effort-g o/ Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/12/23/why-programmers-are-not-paid-in-pro portion-to-their-productivity/ Whatever happened to programming http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/whatever-happened-to-programming/?Pro gramming The plumber programmer http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/11/15/plumber-programmers/ Programming the last mile http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/29/programming-the-last-mile/ It doesn't pay to be the computer guy http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/11/22/the-computer-guy/ 10 Reasons It Doesn't Pay To Be "The Computer Guy" http://www.lifereboot.com/2007/10-reasons-it-doesnt-pay-to-be-the-computer-g uy/ Why there will always be programmers http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/10/27/why-there-will-always-be-programmer s/ ... Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 18 15:20:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:20:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] XP vs Vista vs sp1 vs 2008 vs 32 vs 64 benchmarked Message-ID: <4EC6CC07.5050207@colbyconsulting.com> http://forum.notebookreview.com/windows-os-software/242891-xp-vs-vista-vs-sp1-vs-2008-vs-32-vs-64-benchmarked.html -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Nov 18 16:08:40 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 14:08:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] XP vs Vista vs sp1 vs 2008 vs 32 vs 64 benchmarked In-Reply-To: <4EC6CC07.5050207@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4EC6CC07.5050207@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Interesting, but a shame it's from 2008 and doesnt include Win7. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-18, at 1:20 PM, jwcolby wrote: > > http://forum.notebookreview.com/windows-os-software/242891-xp-vs-vista-vs-sp1-vs-2008-vs-32-vs-64-benchmarked.html > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Fri Nov 18 17:08:57 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:08:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services Environment References: <4EC401EF.40708@colbyconsulting.com> <005001cca572$41abe1a0$c503a4e0$@net> Message-ID: Mark, Thanks for the help/info. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 3:46 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services Environment Your only challenge might be to keep the two environments synched as far as versions go. I'm not sure the issue of the run-time aways being the same as the full-version was resolved...was it ? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 3:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal Services > Environment > > We are thinking about running Access 2010 RUNTIME in a Terminal > Services > environment. > > Our Access development work would be done on a separate PC that has the > "Full Version" of Access 2010. > > This approach is new to us and I am curious if others have tried this. > > Are there any issues that we should be aware of? > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 18 17:43:47 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:43:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I know the feeling so well: http://xkcd.com/979/ -- Stuart From john at winhaven.net Fri Nov 18 18:20:14 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 18:20:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <033801cca651$0243a090$06cae1b0$@winhaven.net> Yea, been there with you. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 5:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that I know the feeling so well: http://xkcd.com/979/ -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Nov 18 19:51:10 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:51:10 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <84B116FF8B2448E0989A814175F8CBEF@creativesystemdesigns.com> I recognized that error. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 3:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that I know the feeling so well: http://xkcd.com/979/ -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Sat Nov 19 08:12:09 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:12:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] EatBloat latest version?? availability --- EIasT - further review Message-ID: Dan, Further to my (off list) note from late last night, I did a little more review. I opened the EIasT.mdb with a breakpoint to allow stepping thru the code. In the problem data base, the queries and forms - up to the problem form - are all exported as text as expected. After the error, the code stops on a STOP statement, as it should. If I step through, it continues with the next procedure in code and does Import the text that was previously exported. It seems I have a corrupted Form and that its source can not be retrieved. I did not find any resolution to the "there isn't enough memory to perform this operation. Close unneeded programs and try the operation again". Seems the consensus is to rebuild the form involved. So from an EIasT view, I did use the utility against another database and all was well. It did build a directory and saved all queries, forms, reports and nodules (I don't have any macros), It did import all the text. It does Compact and Repair. And the database , original and rebuilt are available. Good stuuf. I'm impressed with your code. No wasted code; very concise. I especially like the line numbers in the vba. I take it that is based on your use of FMC utilities. The progress bars are a nice feature - seems there are lots of people trying to build these based on forums I've seen. Again, thanks for responding quickly, and thanks for the EIasT code. Perhaps it should be made available at databaseadvisors as a utility. Jack From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Nov 19 08:14:18 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 18:14:18 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?OT=3A_=22I_feel_your_pain=2C_man!=22_or_=22Pr?= =?utf-8?q?ogrammers_are_most_effective_when_they_avoid_writing_code=2E=2E?= =?utf-8?b?LiI=?= In-Reply-To: <363FB114CEFE4062B345D2BA48A28EC5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <363FB114CEFE4062B345D2BA48A28EC5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- > It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on > site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and > now everything is working. Yes, that's true: "Some things you just can't explain..." http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/00/Jan/explain.html :) Have nice weekend. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 21:32 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Very interesting stuff Shamil. > > It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on > site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and > now everything is working. > > The clients like to see more concern and effort and sometimes fixed > something fast can be bad for you as a programmer. > > This of course why I like a flat rate type insurance-policy support > contracts. Sometimes you are not paid for what you do but if you do it > right, in the first place, it can go for months with little more than a > status report and an invoice. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:19 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most > effective when they avoid writing code..." > > Hi All, > > This and the other day I have read through and collected a set of links on > articles I liked to read about our profession, authored mainly by John D. > Cook (http://www.johndcook.com/blog/) and I'd like to share that links with > you for your Friday/weekend reading: > > Enjoy! > > "... no matter how often you want to play the role of a hero, there will > always be circumstances that test the limits of your ability to be one. It's > difficult to judge when helping someone means doing something immoral, and > it's even harder to admit you are unable to solve someone's problem - and > chances are, that someone will view you as incompetent because you were > unable to help them..." > > Your job is trivial. (But I couldn't do it.) > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/01/14/your-job-is-trivial-but-i-couldnt-d > o-it/ > > Why Can't Programmers.. Program? > http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html > > The buck stops with the programmer > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/19/the-buck-stops-with-the-programmer/ > > The dark side of linchpins > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/05/10/the-dark-side-of-linchpins/ > > Do you really want to be indispensable? > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/04/22/being-indispensable/ > > Where does the programming effort go? > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/18/where-does-the-programming-effort-g > o/ > > Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/12/23/why-programmers-are-not-paid-in-pro > portion-to-their-productivity/ > > Whatever happened to programming > http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/whatever-happened-to-programming/?Pro > gramming > > The plumber programmer > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/11/15/plumber-programmers/ > > Programming the last mile > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/29/programming-the-last-mile/ > > It doesn't pay to be the computer guy > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/11/22/the-computer-guy/ > > 10 Reasons It Doesn't Pay To Be "The Computer Guy" > http://www.lifereboot.com/2007/10-reasons-it-doesnt-pay-to-be-the-computer-g > uy/ > > Why there will always be programmers > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/10/27/why-there-will-always-be-programmer > s/ > ... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Nov 19 09:23:12 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 07:23:12 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Message-ID: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz zle/ Rocky From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Nov 19 09:44:49 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:44:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] EatBloat latest version?? availability --- EIasT - further review In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002101cca6d2$2bb72e70$83258b50$@comcast.net> Hi Jack, Glad you liked this so far! I had thought about putting the object names in the status bar. It seems as though if the name of the object that failed had been there, that would have given you a clue as to which object had gone bad. The line numbers come from an Access utility called M-Z Tools for VBA. I use it constantly. And it's free - with a requested donation. http://www.mztools.com/index.aspx Also - I reread my instructions and forgot to say that this exports all objects except tables. It's been my experience that table bloat and problems are best solved with Compact & Repair. Would it be possible for you to send a copy of the Demo.mdb for me to test on? I don't think I could fix it, but it helps when testing to have a 'real world' example. If you change .mdb to .pdf it will get through just fine. Thanks for your feedback, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jack and Pat Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 8:12 AM To: AccessD Group Discussion Subject: Re: [AccessD] EatBloat latest version?? availability --- EIasT - further review Dan, Further to my (off list) note from late last night, I did a little more review. I opened the EIasT.mdb with a breakpoint to allow stepping thru the code. In the problem data base, the queries and forms - up to the problem form - are all exported as text as expected. After the error, the code stops on a STOP statement, as it should. If I step through, it continues with the next procedure in code and does Import the text that was previously exported. It seems I have a corrupted Form and that its source can not be retrieved. I did not find any resolution to the "there isn't enough memory to perform this operation. Close unneeded programs and try the operation again". Seems the consensus is to rebuild the form involved. So from an EIasT view, I did use the utility against another database and all was well. It did build a directory and saved all queries, forms, reports and nodules (I don't have any macros), It did import all the text. It does Compact and Repair. And the database , original and rebuilt are available. Good stuuf. I'm impressed with your code. No wasted code; very concise. I especially like the line numbers in the vba. I take it that is based on your use of FMC utilities. The progress bars are a nice feature - seems there are lots of people trying to build these based on forums I've seen. Again, thanks for responding quickly, and thanks for the EIasT code. Perhaps it should be made available at databaseadvisors as a utility. Jack -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 19 10:01:10 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:01:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> That website is hilarious.... And that one comic about the array indices is just such a "tell"....and should be sent to Bill Gates. > http://xkcd.com/979/ > > -- > Stuart From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 19 10:58:11 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 08:58:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: These look interesting. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 7:23 AM To: 'Off Topic'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz zle/ Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 19 11:01:22 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:01:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> References: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> Message-ID: <621D83FB7CAC4F1282C179BBFDAEE3A9@creativesystemdesigns.com> That is and is going to be a classic. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 8:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Been there, done that That website is hilarious.... And that one comic about the array indices is just such a "tell"....and should be sent to Bill Gates. > http://xkcd.com/979/ > > -- > Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 19 11:01:59 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:01:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most effective when they avoid writing code..." In-Reply-To: References: <363FB114CEFE4062B345D2BA48A28EC5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: As long as the bill is paid. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 6:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most effective when they avoid writing code..." Hi Jim -- > It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on > site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and > now everything is working. Yes, that's true: "Some things you just can't explain..." http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/00/Jan/explain.html :) Have nice weekend. -- Shamil 18 ?????? 2011, 21:32 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Very interesting stuff Shamil. > > It is always hard when you have to justify a bill when you have just gone on > site, looked at few things and then made a couple of small adjustments and > now everything is working. > > The clients like to see more concern and effort and sometimes fixed > something fast can be bad for you as a programmer. > > This of course why I like a flat rate type insurance-policy support > contracts. Sometimes you are not paid for what you do but if you do it > right, in the first place, it can go for months with little more than a > status report and an invoice. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:19 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] OT: "I feel your pain, man!" or "Programmers are most > effective when they avoid writing code..." > > Hi All, > > This and the other day I have read through and collected a set of links on > articles I liked to read about our profession, authored mainly by John D. > Cook (http://www.johndcook.com/blog/) and I'd like to share that links with > you for your Friday/weekend reading: > > Enjoy! > > "... no matter how often you want to play the role of a hero, there will > always be circumstances that test the limits of your ability to be one. It's > difficult to judge when helping someone means doing something immoral, and > it's even harder to admit you are unable to solve someone's problem - and > chances are, that someone will view you as incompetent because you were > unable to help them..." > > Your job is trivial. (But I couldn't do it.) > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/01/14/your-job-is-trivial-but-i-couldnt-d > o-it/ > > Why Can't Programmers.. Program? > http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html > > The buck stops with the programmer > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/19/the-buck-stops-with-the-programmer/ > > The dark side of linchpins > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/05/10/the-dark-side-of-linchpins/ > > Do you really want to be indispensable? > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/04/22/being-indispensable/ > > Where does the programming effort go? > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/18/where-does-the-programming-effort-g > o/ > > Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/12/23/why-programmers-are-not-paid-in-pro > portion-to-their-productivity/ > > Whatever happened to programming > http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/whatever-happened-to-programming/?Pro > gramming > > The plumber programmer > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/11/15/plumber-programmers/ > > Programming the last mile > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/29/programming-the-last-mile/ > > It doesn't pay to be the computer guy > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/11/22/the-computer-guy/ > > 10 Reasons It Doesn't Pay To Be "The Computer Guy" > http://www.lifereboot.com/2007/10-reasons-it-doesnt-pay-to-be-the-computer-g > uy/ > > Why there will always be programmers > http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/10/27/why-there-will-always-be-programmer > s/ > ... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 19 17:30:37 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 09:30:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> Message-ID: <4EC83C1D.15974.3860F56D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> This one: http://xkcd.com/163/ ? On 19 Nov 2011 at 11:01, Mark Simms wrote: > That website is hilarious.... > And that one comic about the array indices is just such a "tell"....and > should be sent to Bill Gates. > > > http://xkcd.com/979/ > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 20 09:51:41 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 10:51:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC83C1D.15974.3860F56D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <004101cca6d4$74cfba30$5e6f2e90$@net> <4EC83C1D.15974.3860F56D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <004701cca79c$4c165310$e442f930$@net> Yep. > > This one: http://xkcd.com/163/ ? From vbacreations at gmail.com Sun Nov 20 12:34:52 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:34:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook Message-ID: A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server Express was a free Sql Server engine? I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking some other softwars off my machine? I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the option to retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that there is no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing an unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for Outlook. -- From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 20 15:33:47 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:33:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named instance and correctly removed. -- Stuart On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. > > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller > also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. > > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to > have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. > > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server Express > was a free Sql Server engine? > > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would > Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking > some other softwars off my machine? > > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep > certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the option to > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that there is > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing an > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for Outlook. > > -- > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 20 16:16:40 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 22:16:40 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Thanks Shamil I am starting to do a lot of stuff with Office 365 so a few pointers is always handy. FWIIW I find it to be an excellent solution for small to medium sized businesses who either don't have the time, expertise or cash to run their own sharepoint site and exchange server. The software works pretty well, there are a few bugs but they seem to fix them fairly quickly as well. Support (at least in Oz) has been very good. Any issues on setup I have had had been quickly (and accurately) resolved. Most of the issues I have currently having are to do with me and my lack of knowledge in some areas, rather than the platform itself. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Friday, 18 November 2011 8:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) Hi All -- Does anybody practices subj? Do ECS and WAS available within Office 365 hosting plans? Here are some informational links: Office 365 List of Microsoft Office 365 Service Provider Partners http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/list-of-microsoft-office-365-service-provider-partners/ Minimum System Requirements for Office 365 http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/minimum-system-requirements-for-office-365/ Developing with SharePoint 2010 Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx Developing for SharePoint 2010 Excel Services Using Web Services or the Excel Services REST API http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff640648.aspx Open XML SDK + Office Services: Better Together http://blogs.msdn.com/b/brian_jones/archive/2010/02/26/open-xml-sdk-office-services-better-together.aspx Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 20 18:02:06 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:02:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> I am about to subscribe to Office 365....for a document management and display solution. What does this refer to : "(at least in Oz) has been very good" ? Oz ? From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 20 18:32:02 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:32:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> Message-ID: <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Oztralia - that big island just south of Papua New Guinea. -- Stuart On 20 Nov 2011 at 19:02, Mark Simms wrote: > I am about to subscribe to Office 365....for a document management and > display solution. > What does this refer to : "(at least in Oz) has been very good" ? > Oz ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 20 18:48:51 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 00:48:51 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCCE9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Thanks Stuart. Yeah, I forget how global this list is and how sometimes pithy little shortcuts get lost in translation. Sorry, my fault. Just for the record, Oz = Australia. Probably as a lot of folks call it "Oz_Trail_ya" or similar. Office 365 in Australia is support and delivered through Telstra - which is the major phone company in this country (We have others, but Telstra is the 9000 pound Gorilla of the industry). In the past their customer service has been less than stellar, but under their new CEO their focus on customer services has been greatly enhanced. In short, I had a few issues getting O365 set up correctly and they fixed them all swiftly and accurately. I was impressed. I guess I wanted to point out that your experience might be totally different as anyone based outside of Australia will have a different support setup. I would recommend O365 though, it has really made a big difference to a couple of small business I know and how they manage their documents, data and communications - already saved one of them a stack load of time and issues. Great stuff. There is value there for some folks at least. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011 11:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) Oztralia - that big island just south of Papua New Guinea. -- Stuart On 20 Nov 2011 at 19:02, Mark Simms wrote: > I am about to subscribe to Office 365....for a document management and > display solution. > What does this refer to : "(at least in Oz) has been very good" ? > Oz ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Sun Nov 20 18:53:24 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:53:24 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) In-Reply-To: <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <008701cca7e0$ceec0930$6cc41b90$@net> <4EC99C02.21710.3DBF9254@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20111121005347.BNCI10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> And also known as the West Island of NZ :-) At 21/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >Oztralia - that big island just south of Papua New Guinea. > >-- >Stuart > >On 20 Nov 2011 at 19:02, Mark Simms wrote: > > > I am about to subscribe to Office 365....for a document management and > > display solution. > > What does this refer to : "(at least in Oz) has been very good" ? > > Oz ? From vbacreations at gmail.com Sun Nov 20 19:41:07 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:41:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: You asked "was..." it is not something I had thought to check at the time. I can check if it is still there but from the way you phrased the question Stu I get sense it would be gone now and therefore not able to be verified? If I can find BCM for O somewhere I might try installing it again to check the removal process out more thoroughly. Thanks for the idea on this. On Nov 20, 2011 4:35 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? > > If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named instance > and correctly > removed. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: > > > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. > > > > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller > > also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. > > > > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to > > have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. > > > > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server Express > > was a free Sql Server engine? > > > > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would > > Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking > > some other softwars off my machine? > > > > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep > > certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the option > to > > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that there > is > > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing > an > > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for > Outlook. > > > > -- > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Sun Nov 20 19:41:53 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:41:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: References: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: STUART NOT STU.... APOLOGIES! On Nov 20, 2011 8:41 PM, "William Benson" wrote: > You asked "was..." it is not something I had thought to check at the time. > I can check if it is still there but from the way you phrased the question > Stu I get sense it would be gone now and therefore not able to be verified? > If I can find BCM for O somewhere I might try installing it again to check > the removal process out more thoroughly. > > Thanks for the idea on this. > On Nov 20, 2011 4:35 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > wrote: > >> Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? >> >> If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named instance >> and correctly >> removed. >> >> >> -- >> Stuart >> >> On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: >> >> > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. >> > >> > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller >> > also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. >> > >> > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to >> > have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. >> > >> > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server >> Express >> > was a free Sql Server engine? >> > >> > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would >> > Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking >> > some other softwars off my machine? >> > >> > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep >> > certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the >> option to >> > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that >> there is >> > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing >> an >> > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for >> Outlook. >> > >> > -- >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 20 20:05:45 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:05:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4EC9B1F9.16375.3E155DFD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No worries, You can call me anything like want, except late for breakfast. :-) On 20 Nov 2011 at 20:41, William Benson wrote: > STUART NOT STU.... APOLOGIES! > On Nov 20, 2011 8:41 PM, "William Benson" wrote: > > > You asked "was..." it is not something I had thought to check at the time. > > I can check if it is still there but from the way you phrased the question > > Stu I get sense it would be gone now and therefore not able to be verified? > > If I can find BCM for O somewhere I might try installing it again to check > > the removal process out more thoroughly. > > > > Thanks for the idea on this. > > On Nov 20, 2011 4:35 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > > wrote: > > > >> Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? > >> > >> If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named instance > >> and correctly > >> removed. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Stuart > >> > >> On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: > >> > >> > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. > >> > > >> > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the uninstaller > >> > also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. > >> > > >> > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it looks to > >> > have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. > >> > > >> > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server > >> Express > >> > was a free Sql Server engine? > >> > > >> > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why would > >> > Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I was taking > >> > some other softwars off my machine? > >> > > >> > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to keep > >> > certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had the > >> option to > >> > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that > >> there is > >> > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was removing > >> an > >> > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for > >> Outlook. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > -- > >> > AccessD mailing list > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 20 20:11:56 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 02:11:56 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook In-Reply-To: References: <4EC9723B.13891.3D1C5DC9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCDFA@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hehehe... I bet he has been called far worse than that ;) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011 12:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autoremoval of SQL Server Express 2005 when uninstalling Business Contact Manager for Outlook STUART NOT STU.... APOLOGIES! On Nov 20, 2011 8:41 PM, "William Benson" wrote: > You asked "was..." it is not something I had thought to check at the time. > I can check if it is still there but from the way you phrased the > question Stu I get sense it would be gone now and therefore not able to be verified? > If I can find BCM for O somewhere I might try installing it again to > check the removal process out more thoroughly. > > Thanks for the idea on this. > On Nov 20, 2011 4:35 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > wrote: > >> Was the only instance of SQL Server in " Services" named "MSSMLBIZ" ? >> >> If so, it was installed by Business Contact Manager as a named >> instance and correctly removed. >> >> >> -- >> Stuart >> >> On 20 Nov 2011 at 13:34, William Benson wrote: >> >> > A minor beef, I wonder if others have shared this experience. >> > >> > When uninstalling Outlook Business Contact Manager 2007, the >> > uninstaller also removed SQL Server 2005 Express. >> > >> > I have no way to know when that item had been installed, but it >> > looks to have been permanently removed by the uninstaller, sure enough. >> > >> > Any thoughts on why Microsoft would do that? I thought SQL Server >> Express >> > was a free Sql Server engine? >> > >> > I imagine there are places I can download it from again, but why >> > would Microsoft put me through this hassle I wonder, just because I >> > was taking some other softwars off my machine? >> > >> > I recognize that *maybe* had I selected Custom and made choices to >> > keep certain items and remove only certain items, I might have had >> > the >> option to >> > retain SQL Server 2005 Express, however my feeling on this is that >> there is >> > no way I would have no reason to presuppose (and didn't) I was >> > removing >> an >> > unrelated product during a removal of Business Contact Manager for >> Outlook. >> > >> > -- >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Nov 20 23:36:10 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:36:10 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Office_365_-_custom_development_using_Excel_C?= =?utf-8?q?alculation_Services_=28ECS=29_and_Word_Automation_Services_=28W?= =?utf-8?b?QVMp?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DCB89@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your note on your experience with Office 365. I'm also looking at it as a business opportunity which might work here in Russia "combined" with custom SharePoint and desktop solutions development and "powered" by Windows Phone 7.5+ solutions,... We will see... Thank you. -- Shamil 21 ?????? 2011, 02:18 ?? Darryl Collins : > Thanks Shamil > > I am starting to do a lot of stuff with Office 365 so a few pointers is always handy. > > FWIIW I find it to be an excellent solution for small to medium sized businesses who either don't have the time, expertise or cash to run their own sharepoint site and exchange server. The software works pretty well, there are a few bugs but they seem to fix them fairly quickly as well. Support (at least in Oz) has been very good. Any issues on setup I have had had been quickly (and accurately) resolved. > > Most of the issues I have currently having are to do with me and my lack of knowledge in some areas, rather than the platform itself. > > Cheers > Darryl > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Friday, 18 November 2011 8:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 - custom development using Excel Calculation Services (ECS) and Word Automation Services (WAS) > > Hi All -- > > Does anybody practices subj? > Do ECS and WAS available within Office 365 hosting plans? > > Here are some informational links: > > Office 365 > > List of Microsoft Office 365 Service Provider Partners http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/list-of-microsoft-office-365-service-provider-partners/ > > Minimum System Requirements for Office 365 http://microsoftfeed.com/2011/minimum-system-requirements-for-office-365/ > > Developing with SharePoint 2010 Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx > > Developing for SharePoint 2010 Excel Services Using Web Services or the Excel Services REST API http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff640648.aspx > > Open XML SDK + Office Services: Better Together http://blogs.msdn.com/b/brian_jones/archive/2010/02/26/open-xml-sdk-office-services-better-together.aspx > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 21 08:44:59 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:44:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? Message-ID: <005a01cca85c$25301ef0$6f905cd0$@net> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-microsoft-apps-that-will-cha nge-it/1156?tag=nl.e101 After reviewing this article, it appears any and all of my technical skills have little value going forward. Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 09:01:57 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:01:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? References: <005a01cca85c$25301ef0$6f905cd0$@net> Message-ID: > > Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, > Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. =====Yes it does -- just the demographics are changing. More options for big needs -- small needs, not so much. Less opportunity, yes, but valueless, no. Susan H. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 21 09:14:18 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:14:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?time_to_retire_=3F?= Message-ID: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone ranger' developers for 30 years. Rocky -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? From: "Mark Simms" Date: Mon, November 21, 2011 7:44 am To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-microsoft-apps-that-will-cha nge-it/1156?tag=nl.e101 After reviewing this article, it appears any and all of my technical skills have little value going forward. Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 10:17:43 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:17:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: IMO, this piece is targeted at IT people, not developers or database people. Fundamentally different set of skills, and as writers like to say, orthogonal. I'm not saying that some knowledge of this stuff is superfluous, but the IT people have their job and developers have their job, and only in small business is it required to wear both hats. Even in SMBs (Small to Medium-Sized Businesses, defined as total revenue more than $50M and less than $250M per year), these are separate career paths. Mom 'n' Pop outfits are way beneath this radar, IMO. How many M-n-P ops need SharePoint even, much less the other stuff. IMO almost all can get by with SQL Express (free), and have no need to upgrade. Speaking of which, I've been looking at Office365 and at first blush, this looks like a pretty cool option for me, as well as M'n'P ops. At about $6 or $7 a seat/month, it sounds just right, and eliminates all the pricey license fees. Just my IMHO, A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:14 AM, wrote: > Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those > areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out > there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone > ranger' developers for 30 years. > > Rocky > > > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 21 11:02:41 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:02:41 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <6E9F530D-751C-459B-8201-E0E1EBE36932@phulse.com> Aside from Windows 8 and maybe HyperV (I'm on the fence, I don't think virtualization is "the next big thing" anymore), I find it very hard to believe that any of these products are going to have a major impact on IT in the coming years. They all seem fairly niche and exciting to perhaps corporate CTOs. Other than that, what Arthur said. - Hans On 2011-11-21, at 8:17 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > IMO, this piece is targeted at IT people, not developers or database > people. Fundamentally different set of skills, and as writers like to > say, orthogonal. I'm not saying that some knowledge of this stuff is > superfluous, but the IT people have their job and developers have their > job, and only in small business is it required to wear both hats. Even in > SMBs (Small to Medium-Sized Businesses, defined as total revenue more than > $50M and less than $250M per year), these are separate career paths. Mom > 'n' Pop outfits are way beneath this radar, IMO. How many M-n-P ops need > SharePoint even, much less the other stuff. IMO almost all can get by with > SQL Express (free), and have no need to upgrade. Speaking of which, I've > been looking at Office365 and at first blush, this looks like a pretty cool > option for me, as well as M'n'P ops. At about $6 or $7 a seat/month, it > sounds just right, and eliminates all the pricey license fees. > > Just my IMHO, > A. > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:14 AM, wrote: > >> Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those >> areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out >> there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone >> ranger' developers for 30 years. >> >> Rocky >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 21 11:48:30 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:48:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <005a01cca85c$25301ef0$6f905cd0$@net> References: <005a01cca85c$25301ef0$6f905cd0$@net> Message-ID: <5376F6B6238B4AC39701176CE7D7705A@creativesystemdesigns.com> I must admit this is the first time in a while I have been impressed with what is coming out of the Microsoft labs for a few years. It all looks very promising. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 6:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-microsoft-apps-that-will-cha nge-it/1156?tag=nl.e101 After reviewing this article, it appears any and all of my technical skills have little value going forward. Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 12:01:20 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:01:20 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> Message-ID: All, Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). I have some dumb questions. Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and 32-bit for Deployment? Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 available? Does it fix the problem? It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? Thanks, Brad From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 21 12:06:13 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:06:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: There are many web opportunities out there. I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only going to be more demand. You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver your apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, on every device. I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the internet. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 7:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone ranger' developers for 30 years. Rocky -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? From: "Mark Simms" Date: Mon, November 21, 2011 7:44 am To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-microsoft-apps-that-will-cha nge-it/1156?tag=nl.e101 After reviewing this article, it appears any and all of my technical skills have little value going forward. Database design and dev, Business Intelligence reporting, Excel add-ins, Optimization..appears none of this "stuff" has much value any more. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Mon Nov 21 12:13:57 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:13:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> Message-ID: Brad, I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell you my solution. I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready to ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to an XP VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and ship from that machine to my clients. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO All, Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). I have some dumb questions. Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and 32-bit for Deployment? Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 available? Does it fix the problem? It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 12:46:20 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:46:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: There are at least two and perhaps many more possibilities lurking in your statement "I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only going to be more demand." a) Access -> ASP.NET b) Access -> Cloud c) something else Which one have you chosen, and why? Even posing the question makes me feel like an ancient, but nevertheless.... A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > There are many web opportunities out there. > > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only > going to be more demand. > > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver your > apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, on > every device. > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > > Jim > > From df.waters at comcast.net Mon Nov 21 12:53:07 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:53:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> Message-ID: <000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the ADO code to late-binding. Worked fine! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Brad, I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell you my solution. I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready to ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to an XP VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and ship from that machine to my clients. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad Marks" Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO All, Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). I have some dumb questions. Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and 32-bit for Deployment? Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 available? Does it fix the problem? It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 14:18:46 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:18:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: <000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> <000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, and it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been edited, you never have to worry about it again. Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters wrote: > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the ADO > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Brad, > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell you > my > solution. > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready to > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to an XP > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and ship > from that machine to my clients. > > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Brad Marks" > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > All, > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > I have some dumb questions. > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > 32-bit > for Deployment? > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > available? Does it fix the problem? > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 14:58:33 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:58:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, and it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been edited, you never have to worry about it again. Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters wrote: > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the ADO > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Brad, > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell you > my > solution. > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready to > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to an XP > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and ship > from that machine to my clients. > > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Brad Marks" > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > All, > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD regarding a > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not quite > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work that I > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development (possibly > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users who > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > I have some dumb questions. > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > 32-bit > for Deployment? > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > available? Does it fix the problem? > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access 2010. > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From dbdoug at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 15:07:37 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:07:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au> <000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 15:44:22 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:44:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 21 15:57:41 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:57:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <6E9F530D-751C-459B-8201-E0E1EBE36932@phulse.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net>, , <6E9F530D-751C-459B-8201-E0E1EBE36932@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4ECAC955.10416.42589E8C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I'm with Hans and Arthur. They may change the infrastructure that developers work in, but they won't fundamentally change the need for the products of those developers or the skills those developers need. On 21 Nov 2011 at 9:02, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > > Aside from Windows 8 and maybe HyperV (I'm on the fence, I don't think > virtualization is "the next big thing" anymore), I find it very hard > to believe that any of these products are going to have a major > impact on IT in the coming years. They all seem fairly niche > and exciting to perhaps corporate CTOs. > > Other than that, what Arthur said. > > - Hans > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 21 16:01:29 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:01:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net>, Message-ID: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will be for quite a few years to come. At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before my Access skills are ready for retirement. -- Stuart On 21 Nov 2011 at 10:06, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 21 16:05:31 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:05:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net>, , Message-ID: <4ECACB2B.7003.425FCC9E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On a windows server it's: Access -> mySQL + PHP + PowerBasic CGIs Still waiting for the *nix PB compiler so that I can go the same way on all web servers. -- Stuart On 21 Nov 2011 at 13:46, Arthur Fuller wrote: > There are at least two and perhaps many more possibilities lurking in your > statement "I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and > there is only going to be more demand." > > a) Access -> ASP.NET > b) Access -> Cloud > c) something else > > Which one have you chosen, and why? Even posing the question makes me feel > like an ancient, but nevertheless.... > A. > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > There are many web opportunities out there. > > > > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only > > going to be more demand. > > > > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver your > > apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, on > > every device. > > > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > > internet. > > > > Jim > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 16:08:45 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:08:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I agree with you, Stuart, but I am also diving into C# 2010 in a serious way. There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example, but that's due to an old and perhaps obsolete bias that "Everything the db can do, the db should do." I don't like putting db logic in the front end; it sticks in this old craw; but maybe I will learn that this old adage is nearly as obsolete as I am :) A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will > be for quite a few > years to come. > > At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before > my Access skills are > ready for retirement. > > -- > Stuart > > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 16:15:06 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:15:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO - Got it working References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Doug (and others), I did some more experimenting and finally got Late Binding to work by changing line 500 to this. 500 rs.ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection Thanks again for the help. Brad ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 16:21:20 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:21:20 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 16:31:25 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:31:25 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Arthur, Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 3:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? IMO, this piece is targeted at IT people, not developers or database people. Fundamentally different set of skills, and as writers like to say, orthogonal. I'm not saying that some knowledge of this stuff is superfluous, but the IT people have their job and developers have their job, and only in small business is it required to wear both hats. Even in SMBs (Small to Medium-Sized Businesses, defined as total revenue more than $50M and less than $250M per year), these are separate career paths. Mom 'n' Pop outfits are way beneath this radar, IMO. How many M-n-P ops need SharePoint even, much less the other stuff. IMO almost all can get by with SQL Express (free), and have no need to upgrade. Speaking of which, I've been looking at Office365 and at first blush, this looks like a pretty cool option for me, as well as M'n'P ops. At about $6 or $7 a seat/month, it sounds just right, and eliminates all the pricey license fees. Just my IMHO, A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:14 AM, wrote: > Same here plus, even if I became proficient in one or more of those > areas, I'm 62. I don't think there are a whole lot of positions out > there for us 'senior citizens'. Especially ones who have been 'lone > ranger' developers for 30 years. > > Rocky > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Nov 21 16:32:29 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:32:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Darryl, Thanks for the info and the links. I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to figure this out. We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. Sincerely, Brad PS. This problem only affects ADO, right? not DAO? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 16:33:04 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:33:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD33F@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Oh and the fix is currently scheduled for early 2012 at this stage.... So nearly a year after the problem first appeared.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 9:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 16:37:54 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:37:54 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <001401cc8237$b4ac88c0$1e059a40$@com.au><000c01cca87e$cecba520$6c62ef60$@comcast.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD308@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD384@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yep, it is ADO and for all platforms (not just VBA). They have released some fixes already for other platforms, but not VBA yet. In short any code with ADO that is compiled on a W7 SP1 machine will fail if it is run on any other OS (except another W7 SP1 machine). If you get your users to recompile the code on their (non SP1) machine it will work again fine, but clearly that is not a practical solution for most users. The threads are worth a read, they are not so long and have good info on both the background of the problem, MS's surprise and dithering and possible solutions. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Darryl, Thanks for the info and the links. I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to figure this out. We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. Sincerely, Brad PS. This problem only affects ADO, right? not DAO? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 21 17:10:14 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:10:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <52E08440BAFC45D3914832F56D492301@creativesystemdesigns.com> My best current option and this is at the moment is to use ASP.Net to build a HTML interface, Adobe to build the graphics and a good server for a BE. ASP.Net for building the presentation and managing data and all the data processing at the BE. I do not like the WebPages to do anything more than manage the interface but they should manage it all. The sever BE should manage all the data and nothing else. Servers are the best options for now and in the future the Cloud...but IMHO the Cloud is not ready for primetime but that could all change in a couple of years. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? There are at least two and perhaps many more possibilities lurking in your statement "I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only going to be more demand." a) Access -> ASP.NET b) Access -> Cloud c) something else Which one have you chosen, and why? Even posing the question makes me feel like an ancient, but nevertheless.... A. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > There are many web opportunities out there. > > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is only > going to be more demand. > > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver your > apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, on > every device. > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > > Jim > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Nov 21 17:22:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:22:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: You have the advantage of your environment. My environment is going internet and my poor Access skills are becoming less required every day. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will be for quite a few years to come. At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before my Access skills are ready for retirement. -- Stuart On 21 Nov 2011 at 10:06, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 17:50:43 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:50:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Since you've got experience, and since I haven't investigated all the options, am I correct in assuming that an O365 license, regardless of number of people, involves the latest (Office, SharePoint, SQL) in a participatory mechanism of some sort (e.g. per seat or something)? As proprietor of a mostly-retired company, with only me as employee, this is very appealing, and I think this could work very inexpensively for clients having say < 10 employees. Skip all the on-site licensing, pay a per-seat fee per month, lock and load. Is this precis correct? Arthur On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins < darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote: > Arthur, > > Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. > > Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an > Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version > controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync > 2010 has been a game changer for them. > > Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' > to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and > money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage > and back up). > > They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE > does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. > Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more > licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I > am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits > on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the > stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! > > Cheers > Darryl. > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 21 18:43:15 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:43:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?time_to_retire_=3F?= Message-ID: <20111121174315.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.c614d4a3a8.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> so in a pinch there's still room for one more good access developer in PNG? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? From: "Stuart McLachlan" Date: Mon, November 21, 2011 3:01 pm To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will be for quite a few years to come. At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before my Access skills are ready for retirement. -- Stuart On 21 Nov 2011 at 10:06, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 19:08:39 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 01:08:39 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD460@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yep, that is pretty much how it works. You can download a trial version which free and is good for 30 days - the trial version includes 10 licenses, after 30 days you get an email asking if you want to continue the service. If you do then you only pay for as many licenses as you want / need. You can add more or less over time and they just adjust your monthly bill. There was a bit of stuffing around getting the site setup and operational initially (at least for Australia). You need to have a registered business with ABN (sort of a business ID number and an existing website) Your requirements may differ as you are in a different part of the world. I needed to play around with DNS settings on with our existing ISP setup page - and also do some manual configs to Lync and the outlook desktop client to make it work. Most of this stuff I found out via Google and the online help forums. Once you know where to look it is all fairly painless - of course I say this now with 20/20 hindsight ;) That said, you don't need to use an outlook desktop client if you don't want, you can do it all in the browser if you want. The exchange side of things is seriously good. Having the ability to instantly update all the members of your team and share calendars painlessly is a huge jump for a lot of these folks. It is ideal for small working teams of people. One business I set this up for is 7 people and they often work remotely. Having the ability to share calendars, use the 'presence' detection and Lync to meet up and share tools and desktops has been really useful for them. Much better than trying to get one of them to assist the other one over the phone alone. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 10:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? Since you've got experience, and since I haven't investigated all the options, am I correct in assuming that an O365 license, regardless of number of people, involves the latest (Office, SharePoint, SQL) in a participatory mechanism of some sort (e.g. per seat or something)? As proprietor of a mostly-retired company, with only me as employee, this is very appealing, and I think this could work very inexpensively for clients having say < 10 employees. Skip all the on-site licensing, pay a per-seat fee per month, lock and load. Is this precis correct? Arthur On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins < darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote: > Arthur, > > Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. > > Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an > Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version > controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like > Lync > 2010 has been a game changer for them. > > Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' > to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of > time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus > secure docs storage and back up). > > They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower > (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. > Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more > licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I > am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are > limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but > for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! > > Cheers > Darryl. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 21 20:13:01 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:13:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> True, but as we had mentioned in the past, where is that "silver bullet" to Web Development ? Still is and always has been a messy, sausage-making-like ordeal to create web apps. > There are many web opportunities out there. > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is > only > going to be more demand. > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver > your > apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, > on > every device. > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. From john at winhaven.net Mon Nov 21 20:44:50 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:44:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> Message-ID: <035501cca8c0$b48dc980$1da95c80$@winhaven.net> LOL - great description of it! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 8:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? True, but as we had mentioned in the past, where is that "silver bullet" to Web Development ? Still is and always has been a messy, sausage-making-like ordeal to create web apps. > There are many web opportunities out there. > I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is > only going to be more demand. > You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver > your apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of > companies, on every device. > I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the > internet. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 21 21:06:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:06:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). LOL. that's the understatement of the year. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/21/2011 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Arthur, > > Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. > > Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. > > Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). > > They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! > > Cheers > Darryl. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 21 21:32:33 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 03:32:33 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD5C3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Heh, for sure. But given that a lot of small businesses use Excel sheets as their principal database for everything - moving that data into to sharepoint lists usually is fairly simple and brings a lot more data integrity than keeping 5 different versions of Excel as their 'master' database, or I have seen many times "Budget_Final_Final_FinalV2 (Dave's version).xls" - ... Oh the horror, the horror.... Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 2:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). LOL. that's the understatement of the year. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/21/2011 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Arthur, > > Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. > > Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. > > Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). > > They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! > > Cheers > Darryl. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 21 21:35:15 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:35:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> Message-ID: <36945057-B595-495B-8FB8-65EAA25991B7@phulse.com> You should consider HTML5. It's been slow coming but it's starting to pick up some real steam now. Even Microsoft is going head on with HTML5. Just attended a Microsoft talk on responsive web design. It really opened my eyes in terms of that we are reaching a tipping point where hype meets reality (and business). Also, for all you microsofties interested in this, check out Microsofts tool Webmatrix. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-21, at 6:13 PM, "Mark Simms" wrote: > True, but as we had mentioned in the past, where is that "silver bullet" to > Web Development ? > Still is and always has been a messy, sausage-making-like ordeal to create > web apps. > >> There are many web opportunities out there. >> I have been moving clients from desktop to the internet and there is >> only >> going to be more demand. >> You could move your applications to the internet. You can then deliver >> your >> apps, for a few dollars a month per user...to thousands of companies, >> on >> every device. >> I think the desktop applications and Access are dead...long live the >> internet. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 21 22:11:50 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:11:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <36945057-B595-495B-8FB8-65EAA25991B7@phulse.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <000801cca8bc$43210fe0$c9632fa0$@net> <36945057-B595-495B-8FB8-65EAA25991B7@phulse.com> Message-ID: <000001cca8cc$dc73e7c0$955bb740$@net> Webmatrix and Expression Web were always on my radar. I'll bet BOTH are gonna change dramatically now with HTML-5. There may be hope yet !!! RAD for the web....Bring it on. > You should consider HTML5. It's been slow coming but it's starting to > pick up some real steam now. Even Microsoft is going head on with > HTML5. Just attended a Microsoft talk on responsive web design. It > really opened my eyes in terms of that we are reaching a tipping point > where hype meets reality (and business). > > Also, for all you microsofties interested in this, check out Microsofts > tool Webmatrix. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 21 22:16:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:16:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ECB2237.4070208@colbyconsulting.com> >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse That was the understatement of the year. No idea about the brilliance part. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/21/2011 10:06 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff > small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > LOL. that's the understatement of the year. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/21/2011 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: >> Arthur, >> >> Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. >> >> Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook >> and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication >> tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. >> >> Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to >> understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier >> comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). >> >> They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better >> though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, >> all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I >> am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists >> as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). >> >> And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 21 22:17:42 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:17:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD5C3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD32E@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECB119F.8020200@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DD5C3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ECB2266.4060407@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, I understand completely. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/21/2011 10:32 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Heh, for sure. But given that a lot of small businesses use Excel sheets as their principal database for everything - moving that data into to sharepoint lists usually is fairly simple and brings a lot more data integrity than keeping 5 different versions of Excel as their 'master' database, or I have seen many times "Budget_Final_Final_FinalV2 (Dave's version).xls" - ... Oh the horror, the horror.... > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 2:06 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? > > >There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). > > LOL. that's the understatement of the year. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/21/2011 5:31 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: >> Arthur, >> >> Set up two small businesses on Office 365 and I can speak highly of it. >> >> Allowing these small operations to have access to services such as an Exchange server for outlook and shared calendars, secure and version controlled documents, online databases plus communication tools like Lync 2010 has been a game changer for them. >> >> Both businesses are really impressed and have gone from being 'not sure' to really starting to understand how this can save them buckets of time and money (less errors, less documents, easier comms - plus secure docs storage and back up). >> >> They also love that their stuff can now be accessed via any web brower (IE does work better though). And as you say, all for $7 dollars a person. Best bit is if you suddenly add 3 new folks, all you do is add 3 more licences via the admin console and they bill you next month. Personally I am sold on this. The more I used it the more I like it. There are limits on using sharepoint lists as a complex database ofcourse but for 90% of the stuff small businesses need it is just brilliant). >> >> And it is dead easy to set up as well. Great stuff! >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 22 02:55:17 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:55:17 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?time_to_retire_=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Hi Arthur -- > There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example... Do you mean LINQ in general or just LINQ for SQL or ADO.NET EF LINQ? LINQ in general - I mean using it in your C#/VB.NET coding - is a very powerful development tool/programming language concept. LINQ is a "green light" for full scale functional programming (FP) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_programming) within general purpose programming language as C#/VB.NET are. Have a look: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericwhite/archive/2006/10/04/fp-tutorial.aspx LINQ is very close to "ordinary SQL" - in fact they both have common roots in Propositional Calculus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_calculus) , Set Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory), Relational Algebra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_algebra) etc. One can treat LINQ as OOSQL ("first generation") come true. Using LINQ may change your (and mine) "old habits" of practicing mainly "data centric" application development - read more about "Model First" approach here: http://www.devart.com/entitydeveloper/model-first.html http://ianhammondcooper.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/being-ignorant-with-linq-to-sql/ All in all "LINQ (to SQL)" and FP seems to be very good tools for the one considering to retire but still keeping doing custom development as the more one gets familiar with that tools the more short, the more streamlined and effective their programming would become, the least support costs would be "tied" to that coding - and so one can keep competitive for a long time :) "Ordinary" programming has usually a lot of routine (plumbing) work and LINQ and FP allow to minimize that work by making your coding working on higher levels of abstraction and "getting things done" quicker... Parallel LINQ (PLINQ) and FP are also the base for "automagic scaling" of your programming solutions as pure functional coding can be automatically scheduled to be executed in parallel on many processor cores or - in the future(?) even - computer systems or all over "computing clouds" and (P)LINQ expressions can be also interpreted in parallel, and that "parallelization" will be done by .NET Dynamic Language Runtime (DLR) automatically... Recap: LINQ and FP alone would let to keep one's brain cells active solving programming tasks "cool way", or I can even say "lazy but cool way" meaning "lazy evaluation" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy_evaluation) - the core of LINQ expressions evaluation strategy implemented in .NET DLR... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Consider also using OpenXML (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML) and Open XML SDK 2.0 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb448854.aspx, http://openxmldeveloper.org/) as a good substitute for many tasks usually done using MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint Automation, as well as Excel Calculation Services http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepoint-server-help/introduction-to-excel-services-and-excel-web-access-HA010105476.aspx and Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx which should be available for Office 365 developers... 22 ?????? 2011, 02:10 ?? Arthur Fuller : > I agree with you, Stuart, but I am also diving into C# 2010 in a serious > way. There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example, but that's due to an > old and perhaps obsolete bias that "Everything the db can do, the db should > do." I don't like putting db logic in the front end; it sticks in this old > craw; but maybe I will learn that this old adage is nearly as obsolete as I > am :) > > A. > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will > > be for quite a few > > years to come. > > > > At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before > > my Access skills are > > ready for retirement. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Tue Nov 22 07:36:04 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:36:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email1 8.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <4ECBA544.7020800@torchlake.com> Shamil, Thank you for all this good information. I'm not quite ready to dig into it all, but I will be one of these days, and I'm glad to have these resources. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/22/2011 3:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Arthur -- > >> There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example... > Do you mean LINQ in general or just LINQ for SQL or ADO.NET EF LINQ? > > LINQ in general - I mean using it in your C#/VB.NET coding - is a very powerful development tool/programming language concept. > LINQ is a "green light" for full scale functional programming (FP) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_programming) within general purpose programming language as C#/VB.NET are. > Have a look: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericwhite/archive/2006/10/04/fp-tutorial.aspx > > LINQ is very close to "ordinary SQL" - in fact they both have common roots in Propositional Calculus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_calculus) , Set Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory), Relational Algebra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_algebra) etc. One can treat LINQ as OOSQL ("first generation") come true. > > Using LINQ may change your (and mine) "old habits" of practicing mainly "data centric" application development - read more about "Model First" approach here: > > http://www.devart.com/entitydeveloper/model-first.html > > http://ianhammondcooper.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/being-ignorant-with-linq-to-sql/ > > All in all "LINQ (to SQL)" and FP seems to be very good tools for the one considering to retire but still keeping doing custom development as the more one gets familiar with that tools the more short, the more streamlined and effective their programming would become, the least support costs would be "tied" to that coding - and so one can keep competitive for a long time :) > > "Ordinary" programming has usually a lot of routine (plumbing) work and LINQ and FP allow to minimize that work by making your coding working on higher levels of abstraction and "getting things done" quicker... > > Parallel LINQ (PLINQ) and FP are also the base for "automagic scaling" of your programming solutions as pure functional coding can be automatically scheduled to be executed in parallel on many processor cores or - in the future(?) even - computer systems or all over "computing clouds" and (P)LINQ expressions can be also interpreted in parallel, and that "parallelization" will be done by .NET Dynamic Language Runtime (DLR) automatically... > > Recap: LINQ and FP alone would let to keep one's brain cells active solving programming tasks "cool way", or I can even say "lazy but cool way" meaning "lazy evaluation" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy_evaluation) - the core of LINQ expressions evaluation strategy implemented in .NET DLR... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > P.S. Consider also using OpenXML (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML) and Open XML SDK 2.0 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb448854.aspx, http://openxmldeveloper.org/) as a good substitute for many tasks usually done using MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint Automation, as well as > > Excel Calculation Services > http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepoint-server-help/introduction-to-excel-services-and-excel-web-access-HA010105476.aspx > > and > > Word Automation Services > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx > > which should be available for Office 365 developers... > > 22 ?????? 2011, 02:10 ?? Arthur Fuller: >> I agree with you, Stuart, but I am also diving into C# 2010 in a serious >> way. There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example, but that's due to an >> old and perhaps obsolete bias that "Everything the db can do, the db should >> do." I don't like putting db logic in the front end; it sticks in this old >> craw; but maybe I will learn that this old adage is nearly as obsolete as I >> am :) >> >> A. >> >> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Stuart McLachlanwrote: >> >>> Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will >>> be for quite a few >>> years to come. >>> >>> At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before >>> my Access skills are >>> ready for retirement. >>> >>> -- >>> Stuart >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From edzedz at comcast.net Tue Nov 22 09:33:38 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:33:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: W7 SP1 breaking ADO Message-ID: <005a01cca92c$1bd4fc60$5bdea8c0@edz1> There are also problems with DAO and large query statements. Along with the AppHangB1 error have been getting AppCrash errors for VBA programming that works fine on W2K and XP OS systems. The MSFT social media seems unable to find a solution. ================================================================ Description: A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows. Problem signature: Problem Event Name: AppHangB1 Application Name: MSACCESS.EXE Application Version: 11.0.8166.0 Application Timestamp: 46437912 Hang Signature: 8308 Hang Type: 0 OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48 Locale ID: 1033 Additional Hang Signature 1: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 2: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 3: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Additional Hang Signature 4: 8308 Additional Hang Signature 5: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 6: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 7: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Read our privacy statement online: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=104288&clcid=0x0409 If the online privacy statement is not available, please read our privacy statement offline: C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt ================================================================ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Yep, it is ADO and for all platforms (not just VBA). They have released some fixes already for other platforms, but not VBA yet. In short any code with ADO that is compiled on a W7 SP1 machine will fail if it is run on any other OS (except another W7 SP1 machine). If you get your users to recompile the code on their (non SP1) machine it will work again fine, but clearly that is not a practical solution for most users. The threads are worth a read, they are not so long and have good info on both the background of the problem, MS's surprise and dithering and possible solutions. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Darryl, Thanks for the info and the links. I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to figure this out. We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. Sincerely, Brad PS. This problem only affects ADO, right? not DAO? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 09:38:56 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:38:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: <005a01cca92c$1bd4fc60$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <005a01cca92c$1bd4fc60$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: It seems that the only fix is to remove SP1. A. On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > There are also problems with DAO and large query statements. > > Along with the AppHangB1 error have been getting AppCrash errors > for VBA programming that works fine on W2K and XP OS systems. > I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to > figure this out. > > We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the > short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. > > From edzedz at comcast.net Tue Nov 22 10:23:27 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:23:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DAO breaking as well in W7 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001cca933$1116b9b0$5bdea8c0@edz1> There are also problems with DAO and large query statements. Along with the AppHangB1 error have been getting AppCrash errors for VBA programming that works fine on W2K and XP OS systems. The MSFT social media seems unable to find a solution. ================================================================ Description: A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows. Problem signature: Problem Event Name: AppHangB1 Application Name: MSACCESS.EXE Application Version: 11.0.8166.0 Application Timestamp: 46437912 Hang Signature: 8308 Hang Type: 0 OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48 Locale ID: 1033 Additional Hang Signature 1: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 2: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 3: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Additional Hang Signature 4: 8308 Additional Hang Signature 5: 8308d7d6cf65bf52e9d72d974f492eff Additional Hang Signature 6: 8b24 Additional Hang Signature 7: 8b24675b3c3bce2cd0ab5b7ec791198b Read our privacy statement online: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=104288&clcid=0x0409 If the online privacy statement is not available, please read our privacy statement offline: C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt ================================================================ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Darryl, Thanks for the info and the links. I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to figure this out. We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. Sincerely, Brad PS. This problem only affects ADO, right? not DAO? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO If you can do late binding it usually works, but that is not always a viable solution and there are performance issues associated with late binding as well. Of course it all depends on how much code you have to update and how much work your ADO connections are doing. Here is the best resource I have found on this annoying problem. It is in two parts now as the thread was getting very long. After MS have been dithering on a fix for nearly 9 months now. Useless. MS advice to VBA developers is pretty poor. Roll back to W7 Pre SP1, Use the Beta version of Windows 8, Recode everything to late binding. That is about it until they release the fix. BAH!~ Part I: <> Part II: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Doug, Thanks for the assistance, I really appreciate the help. I set up a small Access 2007 ap just to experiment with Early and Late Binding. I am still running into a problem (Line 500). This line was in the code from the Early Binding test which worked. Here is the code that I have. ''' Late Binding Test 100 Dim cnn As Object 200 Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") 300 Dim rs As Object 400 Set rs = CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") 500 rs.ActiveConnection = cnn 600 rs.Open "SELECT * FROM Query1" Thanks, Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO Late binding example. This is early binding: Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection this is late binding: Dim cnn as object Set cnn = CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Doug On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have quite a few ADO Recordsets that currently use Early Binding. > > I am not sure how to change these to Late Binding. > > Perhaps someone could post an example. It would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > Late binding worked well for me, too. I only had one database to edit, > and > it took just a few minutes to change the code. Once the code has been > edited, you never have to worry about it again. > > Doug > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dan Waters > wrote: > > > I did experience this issue at one client. To solve it, I changed the > ADO > > code to late-binding. Worked fine! > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > Brad, > > > > I can't answer your question about has it been fixed yet but can tell > you > > my > > solution. > > > > I continue to develop in my win 7 64 bit machine, then when I am ready > to > > ship I move the ADP in most cases (but it also works with an MDB) to > an XP > > VM or I also have an XP test machine, then decompile/ re-compile and > ship > > from that machine to my clients. > > > > > > Bill > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:01 AM > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Subject: [AccessD] W7 SP1 breaking ADO > > > > All, > > > > Several weeks ago, there were a number of posts here in AccessD > regarding a > > problem with W7 SP1 breaking ADO. I read these posts but did not > quite > > understand the problem. Because this issue did not affect the work > that I > > was doing, I did not dig very deeply into this issue. > > > > Now things have changed, and I need to better understand this issue. > > > > We might start to use a Windows 7 box for Access 2007 development > (possibly > > Access 2010). The Access applications will be deployed to some users > who > > have Win XP SP3 and some running under Windows Server > > 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition SP2 (via Terminal Services). > > > > I have some dumb questions. > > > > Is the crux of the problem caused by using 64-bit for Development and > > 32-bit > > for Deployment? > > > > Is the problem limited to W7 SP1? Can you run W7 without SP1? Is SP2 > > available? Does it fix the problem? > > > > It looks like we can either stay with Access 2007 or move to Access > 2010. > > Does this make a difference with regards to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Tue Nov 22 10:50:56 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:50:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Been there, done that In-Reply-To: <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4EC6EDB3.1934.3346A061@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4ECBD2F0.8000404@torchlake.com> Me too! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/18/2011 6:43 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I know the feeling so well: > > http://xkcd.com/979/ > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Nov 22 10:51:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:51:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] time to retire ? In-Reply-To: References: <4ECACA39.8900.425C1994@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <20111121081418.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.9630a5991e.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <76C0FC092A534DE38B2FE72A9B7753DB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: This collection of links is very interesting but I will have to put it aside for now, as it would be easy to get lost for days, in the subject. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] time to retire ? Hi Arthur -- > There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example... Do you mean LINQ in general or just LINQ for SQL or ADO.NET EF LINQ? LINQ in general - I mean using it in your C#/VB.NET coding - is a very powerful development tool/programming language concept. LINQ is a "green light" for full scale functional programming (FP) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_programming) within general purpose programming language as C#/VB.NET are. Have a look: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericwhite/archive/2006/10/04/fp-tutorial.aspx LINQ is very close to "ordinary SQL" - in fact they both have common roots in Propositional Calculus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_calculus) , Set Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory), Relational Algebra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_algebra) etc. One can treat LINQ as OOSQL ("first generation") come true. Using LINQ may change your (and mine) "old habits" of practicing mainly "data centric" application development - read more about "Model First" approach here: http://www.devart.com/entitydeveloper/model-first.html http://ianhammondcooper.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/being-ignorant-with-linq-to -sql/ All in all "LINQ (to SQL)" and FP seems to be very good tools for the one considering to retire but still keeping doing custom development as the more one gets familiar with that tools the more short, the more streamlined and effective their programming would become, the least support costs would be "tied" to that coding - and so one can keep competitive for a long time :) "Ordinary" programming has usually a lot of routine (plumbing) work and LINQ and FP allow to minimize that work by making your coding working on higher levels of abstraction and "getting things done" quicker... Parallel LINQ (PLINQ) and FP are also the base for "automagic scaling" of your programming solutions as pure functional coding can be automatically scheduled to be executed in parallel on many processor cores or - in the future(?) even - computer systems or all over "computing clouds" and (P)LINQ expressions can be also interpreted in parallel, and that "parallelization" will be done by .NET Dynamic Language Runtime (DLR) automatically... Recap: LINQ and FP alone would let to keep one's brain cells active solving programming tasks "cool way", or I can even say "lazy but cool way" meaning "lazy evaluation" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy_evaluation) - the core of LINQ expressions evaluation strategy implemented in .NET DLR... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Consider also using OpenXML (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML) and Open XML SDK 2.0 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb448854.aspx, http://openxmldeveloper.org/) as a good substitute for many tasks usually done using MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint Automation, as well as Excel Calculation Services http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepoint-server-help/introduction-to-exc el-services-and-excel-web-access-HA010105476.aspx and Word Automation Services http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff742315.aspx which should be available for Office 365 developers... 22 ?????? 2011, 02:10 ?? Arthur Fuller : > I agree with you, Stuart, but I am also diving into C# 2010 in a serious > way. There are parts I don't like (Linq, for example, but that's due to an > old and perhaps obsolete bias that "Everything the db can do, the db should > do." I don't like putting db logic in the front end; it sticks in this old > craw; but maybe I will learn that this old adage is nearly as obsolete as I > am :) > > A. > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > Not in my world where internet access is still slow and expensive and will > > be for quite a few > > years to come. > > > > At the same age as Rocky, I reckon I've got a good few years left before > > my Access skills are > > ready for retirement. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeff.developer at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 10:57:33 2011 From: jeff.developer at gmail.com (Jeff B) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:57:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives Message-ID: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com> Hello Listers! Quick question, I went to look through the archives to see if there was anything about working with Access and QuickBooks, but it seems that all of our archives are unavailable? Do we have any archives available right now? Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Nov 22 12:03:41 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:03:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives In-Reply-To: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com> References: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <023601cca941$112be700$3383b500$@winhaven.net> Because of some technical issues, we're re-doing the archives right now. Its taking a while. Please be patient. Meanwhile maybe you could ask the list your particular questions. I know that the Quickbooks API has changed considerably over the last few years. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff B Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:58 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Archives Hello Listers! Quick question, I went to look through the archives to see if there was anything about working with Access and QuickBooks, but it seems that all of our archives are unavailable? Do we have any archives available right now? Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeff.developer at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 12:38:52 2011 From: jeff.developer at gmail.com (Jeff B) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:38:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives In-Reply-To: <023601cca941$112be700$3383b500$@winhaven.net> References: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com> <023601cca941$112be700$3383b500$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <006701cca945$fbf9c730$f3ed5590$@gmail.com> Thanks John. I thought we had had a discussion about QuickBooks, that?s why I was looking for the archives. I think I found my solution! It seems that QuickBooks now offers a read only ODBC driver as part of its product. If you look a little farther, they share a link for QODBC read/write driver. The read/write is available through FLEXquarters.com for a nominal fee. Seeing as I have been using ODBC with Access and SQL Server, it seems like the natural way to go. So, I have found my solution! Thanks again! Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Archives Because of some technical issues, we're re-doing the archives right now. Its taking a while. Please be patient. Meanwhile maybe you could ask the list your particular questions. I know that the Quickbooks API has changed considerably over the last few years. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff B Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:58 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Archives Hello Listers! Quick question, I went to look through the archives to see if there was anything about working with Access and QuickBooks, but it seems that all of our archives are unavailable? Do we have any archives available right now? Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 22 14:35:58 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:35:58 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties Message-ID: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to their server using the Data Link Properties: If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I do not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these and the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not one of these. My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. In the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. Any suggestions? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 14:57:24 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:57:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login behaves the same there? Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the database in question? It does sound like permissions to me. D On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson wrote: > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to > their server using the Data Link Properties: > > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in the > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the database I > want. > > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I do > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these and > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not one > of these. > > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. In > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. > > Any suggestions? > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 22 15:39:54 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:39:54 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login >behaves the same there? Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this what you mean? >Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the >database in question? I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't seem to have helped. >It does sound like permissions to me. > >D > >On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to > > their server using the Data Link Properties: > > > > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in the > > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the database I > > want. > > > > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the > > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I do > > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these and > > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not one > > of these. > > > > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I > > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role > > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. In > > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have > > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database > > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Nov 22 16:32:13 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:32:13 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] FW: W7 SP1 breaking ADO In-Reply-To: References: <005a01cca92c$1bd4fc60$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DDD32@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Pretty much at this stage for anyone using VBA, that is it and that is what I did. Of course for some folks that is not an option. Two examples I can think of are 1: folks on corporate networks who get the OS updates pushed out to them, and folks who recently purchased W7 that has SP1 already built in. I got lucky, the rollback to W7 Release version worked and all was good again. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, 23 November 2011 2:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: W7 SP1 breaking ADO It seems that the only fix is to remove SP1. A. On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > There are also problems with DAO and large query statements. > > Along with the AppHangB1 error have been getting AppCrash errors for > VBA programming that works fine on W2K and XP OS systems. > I am not yet sure which approach we will take, we are still trying to > figure this out. > > We might try to stay with Win XP SP3 for our Development box for the > short term or we may make the changes for Late Binding. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 16:43:40 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:43:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? >From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I can click on the Office button. >From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server and then any database on that chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing everything logged in as the troubled user? David On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson wrote: > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login >> behaves the same there? >> > > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this > what you mean? > > > > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the >> database in question? >> > > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't > seem to have helped. > > > It does sound like permissions to me. >> >> D >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson > >wrote: >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: >> > >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in >> the >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the >> database I >> > want. >> > >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I >> do >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these >> and >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not >> one >> > of these. >> > >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. >> In >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. >> > >> > Any suggestions? >> > >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > David Emerson >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Nov 22 18:30:09 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:30:09 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I can >click on the Office button. > From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server and >then any database on that >chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing >everything logged in as the troubled user? Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. >David > > >On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login > >> behaves the same there? > >> > > > > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view > > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this > > what you mean? > > > > > > > > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the > >> database in question? > >> > > > > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't > > seem to have helped. > > > > > > It does sound like permissions to me. > >> > >> D > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson >> >wrote: > >> > >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link to > >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > >> > > >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in > >> the > >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the > >> database I > >> > want. > >> > > >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the > >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. I > >> do > >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to these > >> and > >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is not > >> one > >> > of these. > >> > > >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I > >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role > >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. > >> In > >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have > >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database > >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. > >> > > >> > Any suggestions? > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > > >> > David Emerson > >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> > Wellington, New Zealand From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Nov 22 21:05:24 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:05:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hyper-V VM oddness Message-ID: <4ECC62F4.7050201@colbyconsulting.com> I decided to try moving my VMs to Azul server, my "big" server. I figured with 16 cores and 64 gigs it could handle the load. The sole purpose of one of the VMs is to host a third party application. When this app is running the VM says that the single core I assign to it is pegged, 100% utilization. However none of the host machine cores shows any significant usage, and the total server usage bounces between 0 and 1%. So I'm wondering what the heck is going on? The application on the dedicated VM server was processing about 8-9 million records per hour on a 3.5 GHz AMD quad core, and on that host machine one of the cores would appear to be maxed out and the server would say 25% usage. On the mongo server the CPUs are 2 GHz 8 core and no core says it is busy and I'm only getting about 4 million records / hour. I expected one core to max and the total to say 1/16th total usage. Any ideas why this VM says it is using 100% of its virtual CPU but the host server says it is not busy at all? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 23 10:35:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:35:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL Message-ID: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> I run three VMs pretty much 24/7 here at my home office, one which I call vmDev which is my development machine, another is my Accuzip third party software vm and one final machine runs SQL Server Express for Access clients coming in over the internet. I had a dedicated server for VMs which I actually just upgraded to a new motherboard, DDR3 ram etc in preparation for the new AM3+ bulldozer processor. Given the weak performance of the new processor I am hanging out waiting for the next rev / price drops before taking that plunge. what I did do however is move all three of those VMs off onto my 16 core SQL Server machine. The only VM which truly needs much horsepower is the Accuzip VM and my performance dropped by half when I did the move. Whereas I was getting about 8-9 million records / hour on the dedicated VM Server, on Azul SQL Server machine I am lucky to get 4.5 million per hour. The difference is mostly just the core speed. The Magney-Cours server chips that I could afford run at 2.0 ghz and have ddr3 1300 memory (registered and ECC), whereas the new motherboard has DDR 1600 memory and a quad core Phenom lightly overclocked to 3.3 ghz. The additional clock speed and memory speed apparently makes for significant additional horsepower. Anyway, I have decided to take the speed hit on the Accuzip VM in order to clean off what was my dedicated VM server and use that for a MySQL machine. As servers go this machine is somewhat wimpy with 4 cores and 16 gigs of memory but for learning MySQL it should suffice. There has been a bit of interest expressed in MySQL, with some list members already using it and others trying to learn it. I count myself in the trying to learn it crowd. My intention is to go with MariaDB. Since I have Hyper-V running on this machine I am thinking about running mariaDB itself on a VM which would allow me to move the VM should I decide to keep it. I have to say I am not having a lot of luck getting a Linux distro running on a Hyper-V VM, but if I can make that happen that would be my preference. If anyone out there has experience getting a linux distro running in a Hyper-V VM running MariaDB let me know. I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 11:28:19 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:28:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? Still sounds like privileges to me. On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson wrote: > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? >> > > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > > > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I can >> click on the Office button. >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server and >> then any database on that >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing >> everything logged in as the troubled user? >> > > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > > > David >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson >> wrote: >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login >> >> behaves the same there? >> >> >> > >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this >> > what you mean? >> > >> > >> > >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the >> >> database in question? >> >> >> > >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't >> > seem to have helped. >> > >> > >> > It does sound like permissions to me. >> >> >> >> D >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson > >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link >> to >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: >> >> > >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in >> >> the >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the >> >> database I >> >> > want. >> >> > >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. >> I >> >> do >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to >> these >> >> and >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is >> not >> >> one >> >> > of these. >> >> > >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. >> >> In >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. >> >> > >> >> > Any suggestions? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Regards >> >> > >> >> > David Emerson >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Nov 23 14:37:48 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:37:48 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? > >Still sounds like privileges to me. > > > >On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? > >> > > > > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > > > > > > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I can > >> click on the Office button. > >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server and > >> then any database on that > >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing > >> everything logged in as the troubled user? > >> > > > > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > > > > > > David > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson > >> wrote: > >> > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> > > >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your login > >> >> behaves the same there? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can view > >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is this > >> > what you mean? > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the > >> >> database in question? > >> >> > >> > > >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't > >> > seem to have helped. > >> > > >> > > >> > It does sound like permissions to me. > >> >> > >> >> D > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson >> >> >wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then link > >> to > >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > >> >> > > >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the databases in > >> >> the > >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the > >> >> database I > >> >> > want. > >> >> > > >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select the > >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and tempdb. > >> I > >> >> do > >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to > >> these > >> >> and > >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is > >> not > >> >> one > >> >> > of these. > >> >> > > >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL Server. I > >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database role > >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User Mapping. > >> >> In > >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I have > >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the database > >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown. > >> >> > > >> >> > Any suggestions? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Regards > >> >> > > >> >> > David Emerson > >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 14:59:11 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:59:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: >From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer I can choose Server Type : Database Engine ServerName: YourServerName Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to Windows Authentication) Login: limitedUser password: xxxxx It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know he doesn't have rights to, it will give me an error. If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson wrote: > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. > > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? >> >> Still sounds like privileges to me. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson >> wrote: >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? >> >> >> > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. >> > >> > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I >> can >> >> click on the Office button. >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server >> and >> >> then any database on that >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? >> >> >> > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. >> > >> > >> > David >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your >> login >> >> >> behaves the same there? >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can >> view >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is >> this >> >> > what you mean? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the >> >> >> database in question? >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. >> Doesn't >> >> > seem to have helped. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. >> >> >> >> >> >> D >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson < >> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz >> >> >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then >> link >> >> to >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the >> databases in >> >> >> the >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the >> >> >> database I >> >> >> > want. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select >> the >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and >> tempdb. >> >> I >> >> >> do >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to >> >> these >> >> >> and >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is >> >> not >> >> >> one >> >> >> > of these. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL >> Server. I >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database >> role >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User >> Mapping. >> >> >> In >> >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I >> have >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the >> database >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" >> dropdown. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Regards >> >> >> > >> >> >> > David Emerson >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com> databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 23 15:29:07 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 07:29:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz>, Message-ID: <4ECD65A3.3640.4C8B3A43@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> IN SSMS 2005, while logged in as an administrator: Go to ServerName - Security - Logins and select the login in question. Right Click and select Properties Under "Select a Page", select User Mapping Make sure the databases that you want the Login to be able to access are ticked in the top right hand panel and the correct roles are set in the bottom panel. -- Stuart On 23 Nov 2011 at 12:59, David McAfee wrote: > From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer > > I can choose > Server Type : Database Engine > ServerName: YourServerName > Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to > Windows Authentication) > Login: limitedUser > password: xxxxx > > It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know he doesn't > have rights to, it will give me an error. > > If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. > > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows > > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as > > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. > > > > > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? > >> > >> Still sounds like privileges to me. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson > >> wrote: > >> > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> > > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > >> > > >> > > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the moment, I > >> can > >> >> click on the Office button. > >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server > >> and > >> >> then any database on that > >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing > >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > >> > > >> > > >> > David > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your > >> login > >> >> >> behaves the same there? > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can > >> view > >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is > >> this > >> >> > what you mean? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied access to the > >> >> >> database in question? > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. > >> Doesn't > >> >> > seem to have helped. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> D > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson < > >> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz > >> >> >> >wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then > >> link > >> >> to > >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the > >> databases in > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the > >> >> >> database I > >> >> >> > want. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in the "Select > >> the > >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and > >> tempdb. > >> >> I > >> >> >> do > >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to > >> >> these > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database I want is > >> >> not > >> >> >> one > >> >> >> > of these. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL > >> Server. I > >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database > >> role > >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User > >> Mapping. > >> >> >> In > >> >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I > >> have > >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the > >> database > >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" > >> dropdown. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Regards > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > David Emerson > >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand > >> >> > >> > > >> > -- > >> > AccessD mailing list > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> > >> > > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com >> databaseadvisors.com > > >> > >> > > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Nov 23 15:38:08 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:38:08 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111122214022.CRSM10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123003038.TVXY10424.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111123213842.RXMI28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I tried that and couldn't even log in as any user. There seems to be other problems with the profile the Administrator set up for me so I will wait until he gets them sorted out before trying again. Thanks for your suggestions. David At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer > >I can choose > Server Type : Database Engine > ServerName: YourServerName > Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to >Windows Authentication) > Login: limitedUser > password: xxxxx > >It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know he doesn't >have rights to, it will give me an error. > >If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. > > > > >On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson wrote: > > > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows > > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as > > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. > > > > > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? > >> > >> Still sounds like privileges to me. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson > >> wrote: > >> > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> > > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > >> > > >> > > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at the > moment, I can > >> >> click on the Office button. > >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose > any server and > >> >> then any database on that > >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you are not seeing > >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > >> > > >> > > >> > David > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see > if your login > >> >> >> behaves the same there? > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 > R2). I can view > >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings > etc. Is this > >> >> > what you mean? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied > access to the database in question? > >> >> > > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. Doesn't > >> >> > seem to have helped. > >> >> > > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> D > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson > wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's > network then link to > >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the > databases in the > >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect > to the database I > >> >> >> > want. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in > the "Select the > >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb > and tempdb. I do > >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can > link to these and > >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the database > I want is not one > >> >> >> > of these. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in > SQL Server. I > >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all > database role > >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in > User Mapping. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > In the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all > rolls. Status shows I have > >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still > the database > >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the > Server" dropdown. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Regards > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > David Emerson > >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Nov 23 15:40:39 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:40:39 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <4ECD65A3.3640.4C8B3A43@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4ECD65A3.3640.4C8B3A43@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20111123214110.HTDC18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Done that to no avail. Will wait until the administrator can sort out my profile issues before wasting more time on this problem. David At 24/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >IN SSMS 2005, while logged in as an administrator: > >Go to ServerName - Security - Logins and select the login in question. >Right Click and select Properties >Under "Select a Page", select User Mapping >Make sure the databases that you want the Login to be able to >access are ticked in the top >right hand panel and the correct roles are set in the bottom panel. > >-- >Stuart > >On 23 Nov 2011 at 12:59, David McAfee wrote: > > > From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer > > > > I can choose > > Server Type : Database Engine > > ServerName: YourServerName > > Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to > > Windows Authentication) > > Login: limitedUser > > password: xxxxx > > > > It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know he doesn't > > have rights to, it will give me an error. > > > > If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson > wrote: > > > > > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows > > > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as > > > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. > > > > > > > > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > > > > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? > > >> > > >> Still sounds like privileges to me. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as > > >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at > the moment, I > > >> can > > >> >> click on the Office button. > > >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose any server > > >> and > > >> >> then any database on that > > >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you > are not seeing > > >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using another user's > > >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the > > >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > David > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson > > >> >> wrote: > > >> >> > > >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: > > >> >> > > > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your > > >> login > > >> >> >> behaves the same there? > > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 R2). I can > > >> view > > >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role settings etc. Is > > >> this > > >> >> > what you mean? > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied > access to the > > >> >> >> database in question? > > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. > > >> Doesn't > > >> >> > seem to have helped. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> D > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson < > > >> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz > > >> >> >> >wrote: > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then > > >> link > > >> >> to > > >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the > > >> databases in > > >> >> >> the > > >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the > > >> >> >> database I > > >> >> >> > want. > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in > the "Select > > >> the > > >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and > > >> tempdb. > > >> >> I > > >> >> >> do > > >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I can link to > > >> >> these > > >> >> >> and > > >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the > database I want is > > >> >> not > > >> >> >> one > > >> >> >> > of these. > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL > > >> Server. I > > >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set all database > > >> role > > >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User > > >> Mapping. > > >> >> >> In > > >> >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all rolls. Status shows I > > >> have > > >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the > > >> database > > >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" > > >> dropdown. > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Regards > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > David Emerson > > >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd > > >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > AccessD mailing list > > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/****mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.****com > >> databaseadvisors.com > > > >> > > >> > > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul_lifopro at cox.net Wed Nov 23 15:45:55 2011 From: paul_lifopro at cox.net (paul_lifopro) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:45:55 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives In-Reply-To: <006701cca945$fbf9c730$f3ed5590$@gmail.com> References: <004801cca937$d4a46220$7ded2660$@gmail.com><023601cca941$112be700$3383b500$@winhaven.net> <006701cca945$fbf9c730$f3ed5590$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <032401ccaa29$47ccd8d0$6d01a8c0@lplaptop2> Jeff, I use the read only QODBC driver you mentioned. The only weird thing about it is that I have found is that the Quickbooks system has to be open when you hit the tables with Access. At least that is what I found out. Otherwise it gives you an error. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Jeff B [mailto:jeff.developer at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Archives Thanks John. I thought we had had a discussion about QuickBooks, that?s why I was looking for the archives. I think I found my solution! It seems that QuickBooks now offers a read only ODBC driver as part of its product. If you look a little farther, they share a link for QODBC read/write driver. The read/write is available through FLEXquarters.com for a nominal fee. Seeing as I have been using ODBC with Access and SQL Server, it seems like the natural way to go. So, I have found my solution! Thanks again! Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Archives Because of some technical issues, we're re-doing the archives right now. Its taking a while. Please be patient. Meanwhile maybe you could ask the list your particular questions. I know that the Quickbooks API has changed considerably over the last few years. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff B Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:58 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Archives Hello Listers! Quick question, I went to look through the archives to see if there was anything about working with Access and QuickBooks, but it seems that all of our archives are unavailable? Do we have any archives available right now? Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 23 16:23:14 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:23:14 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> "I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject." Count me as 'interested'. Your posts are usually highly educational John and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share your experiences with the rest of us. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 3:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL I run three VMs pretty much 24/7 here at my home office, one which I call vmDev which is my development machine, another is my Accuzip third party software vm and one final machine runs SQL Server Express for Access clients coming in over the internet. I had a dedicated server for VMs which I actually just upgraded to a new motherboard, DDR3 ram etc in preparation for the new AM3+ bulldozer processor. Given the weak performance of the new processor I am hanging out waiting for the next rev / price drops before taking that plunge. what I did do however is move all three of those VMs off onto my 16 core SQL Server machine. The only VM which truly needs much horsepower is the Accuzip VM and my performance dropped by half when I did the move. Whereas I was getting about 8-9 million records / hour on the dedicated VM Server, on Azul SQL Server machine I am lucky to get 4.5 million per hour. The difference is mostly just the core speed. The Magney-Cours server chips that I could afford run at 2.0 ghz and have ddr3 1300 memory (registered and ECC), whereas the new motherboard has DDR 1600 memory and a quad core Phenom lightly overclocked to 3.3 ghz. The additional clock speed and memory speed apparently makes for significant additional horsepower. Anyway, I have decided to take the speed hit on the Accuzip VM in order to clean off what was my dedicated VM server and use that for a MySQL machine. As servers go this machine is somewhat wimpy with 4 cores and 16 gigs of memory but for learning MySQL it should suffice. There has been a bit of interest expressed in MySQL, with some list members already using it and others trying to learn it. I count myself in the trying to learn it crowd. My intention is to go with MariaDB. Since I have Hyper-V running on this machine I am thinking about running mariaDB itself on a VM which would allow me to move the VM should I decide to keep it. I have to say I am not having a lot of luck getting a Linux distro running on a Hyper-V VM, but if I can make that happen that would be my preference. If anyone out there has experience getting a linux distro running in a Hyper-V VM running MariaDB let me know. I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject. -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Nov 23 16:34:36 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:34:36 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Connecting to SQL using Data Properties In-Reply-To: <20111123214110.HTDC18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.c o.nz> References: <20111122203626.FCXZ18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <20111123203818.OCCM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4ECD65A3.3640.4C8B3A43@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <20111123214110.HTDC18437.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20111123223506.VRXM28897.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Finally solved the problem. I got the administrator to delete my login totally from SQL and recreate it. Now I am in. Thanks David (and Stuart) for your help. At 24/11/2011, David Emerson wrote: >Done that to no avail. Will wait until the administrator can sort >out my profile issues before wasting more time on this problem. > >David > >At 24/11/2011, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>IN SSMS 2005, while logged in as an administrator: >> >>Go to ServerName - Security - Logins and select the login in question. >>Right Click and select Properties >>Under "Select a Page", select User Mapping >>Make sure the databases that you want the Login to be able to >>access are ticked in the top >>right hand panel and the correct roles are set in the bottom panel. >> >>-- >>Stuart >> >>On 23 Nov 2011 at 12:59, David McAfee wrote: >> >> > From SSMS (2005), if I click on File->Connect Object Explorer >> > >> > I can choose >> > Server Type : Database Engine >> > ServerName: YourServerName >> > Authentication: SQL Server Authentication (Yours is currently set to >> > Windows Authentication) >> > Login: limitedUser >> > password: xxxxx >> > >> > It will show me all databases, but if I click on one that I know >> he doesn't >> > have rights to, it will give me an error. >> > >> > If I try and exec a stored procedure that he has rights to, it will run. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Emerson >> wrote: >> > >> > > I can only log in as administrator to the server. SSMS requires Windows >> > > Authentication to log in. I can't see how I can log into the server as >> > > Administrator, then log into SSMS as mu own log in. >> > > >> > > >> > > At 24/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > > >> > >> What happens if you log into SSMS as the problem user? What do you see? >> > >> >> > >> Still sounds like privileges to me. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Emerson >> > >> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> >> You can view everything from SSMS logged in as the troubled login? >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > Sorry my mistake. I can log into the machine which has SQL server as >> > >> > administrator and make changes. I cannot as the user profile. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > From Access 2007, which is what I have in front of me at >> the moment, I >> > >> can >> > >> >> click on the Office button. >> > >> >> From there, if I click on Server->Connection, I can choose >> any server >> > >> and >> > >> >> then any database on that >> > >> >> chosen server (that I have access to). Is this where you >> are not seeing >> > >> >> everything logged in as the troubled user? >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > Yes - this is where the problem is. If I log in using >> another user's >> > >> > login I can see all the databases in the "Select the Database on the >> > >> > Server" dropdown and connect to the database I want. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > David >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:39 PM, David Emerson >> >> > >> >> wrote: >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > At 23/11/2011, David McAfee wrote: >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> >> Do you have access to SQL Server management studio to see if your >> > >> login >> > >> >> >> behaves the same there? >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > Yes I do have access to Management Studio (Version 2008 >> R2). I can >> > >> view >> > >> >> > the database, edit stored procedures, change role >> settings etc. Is >> > >> this >> > >> >> > what you mean? >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > Could your login be attached to a role that is denied >> access to the >> > >> >> >> database in question? >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > I have removed all the roles except db_ddladmin and db_owner. >> > >> Doesn't >> > >> >> > seem to have helped. >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > It does sound like permissions to me. >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> D >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Emerson < >> > >> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz >> > >> >> >> >wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I have an ADP in Access which I put on a Client's network then >> > >> link >> > >> >> to >> > >> >> >> > their server using the Data Link Properties: >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > If I log in using another user's login I can see all the >> > >> databases in >> > >> >> >> the >> > >> >> >> > "Select the Database on the Server" dropdown and connect to the >> > >> >> >> database I >> > >> >> >> > want. >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > On a profile that has been set up for me all I see in >> the "Select >> > >> the >> > >> >> >> > Database on the Server" dropdown is master, model, msdb and >> > >> tempdb. >> > >> >> I >> > >> >> >> do >> > >> >> >> > not see any of the other databases on the server. I >> can link to >> > >> >> these >> > >> >> >> and >> > >> >> >> > the Test Connection is successful. However the >> database I want is >> > >> >> not >> > >> >> >> one >> > >> >> >> > of these. >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > My initial thought is that I don't have permissions in SQL >> > >> Server. I >> > >> >> >> > checked for the database I want and I have even set >> all database >> > >> role >> > >> >> >> > memberships except denydatareader and denydatawriter in User >> > >> Mapping. >> > >> >> >> In >> > >> >> >> > the Server Rolls screen I have ticked all >> rolls. Status shows I >> > >> have >> > >> >> >> > permission to connect granted and login enabled. Still the >> > >> database >> > >> >> >> > doesn't appear in the "Select the Database on the Server" >> > >> dropdown. >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > Any suggestions? >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > Regards >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > David Emerson >> > >> >> >> > Dalyn Software Ltd >> > >> >> >> > Wellington, New Zealand From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 19:21:04 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 20:21:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Anyone and everyone interested in the subject of MySQL and MariaDB is invited to visit our site (www.artfulsoftware.com), from which you can download a bunch of chapters of our book plus all the source code for free. Beyond that, there is a nominal charge for everything, including free access to everything we add or revise or update during the next year. So far, I confess, there is nothing up yet that is specific to MariaDB, but this is a subject of concern to Peter and me, if only because we would rather sleep with Monty than Larry (metaphorically speaking of course :). Soon shall come additional chapters attempting to describe the buy-out, the momentary allegiance, and the subsequent divorce; and from then on we shall concentrate on MariaDB, leaving the old (except the obsolete) text intact, and building upon it as we follow Monty et. al. into the new world of MariaDB. This is not meant to disparage entirely Oracle's efforts in the MySQL realm. The documentation, to take only one example, has improved, and they have added some useful code as well. But our allegiance remains with Monty. This is an open invitation to all you readers interested in exploring this frontier, so that we can improve our documentation of same. We (Peter Brawley and I) shall try to answer your questions, and we are especially interested in the hurdles you find difficult when switching from MS SQL and other databases, entering the admittedly different world of MySQL and MariaDB. Since the original model was Oracle, I'm guessing that Oracle users will have the path of least resistance, but otoh if they're already into Oracle then why backtrack, except to avoid the huge licensing costs? Not that that's insufficient reason. But I digress. What I'm interested in is the Access and MS SQL user-place, and helping in those arenas. Arthur On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Darryl Collins < darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote: > "I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the > subject." > > Count me as 'interested'. Your posts are usually highly educational John > and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share your experiences > with the rest of us. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 23 19:38:01 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:38:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <5C019DD8-9855-4AF5-B8D6-4C3ABF380EC9@phulse.com> Hi John, I am just forwarding some links I sent someone else the other day regarding the same issue: Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/WindowsServerHyperV CentOS: http://www.hyper-v-mart.com/Howto/Install_CentOS_5_VM_Step_by_Step.aspx Ubuntu: http://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/961.aspx My personal preference is Debian (for more reasons than I can possibly list in a short email) and installing software is pretty easy. To install MySQL, all it takes is to write (as root user on the command line): # apt-get install mysql-server You may choose to do some additional configuration after that point. You will find those in the file: /etc/mysql/my.cnf Then, to start or stop the MySQL server, type either: # /etc/init.d/mysql start or # /etc/init.d/mysql stop ======================== Of course, this is for MySQL, not for MariaDB. Unfortunately, MariaDB has not yet been included into the default software repositories for Debian (or any of the others, I imagine), but you can install the packages from MariaDBs website. I personally recommend, though, that you set it up in your software repositories, as then you will be informed when there are updates and you can use the systems update mechanism to upgrade/patch things for you, rather than having to do it all manually. It's not hard to add Monty's repositories. If you follow this (http://downloads.askmonty.org/mariadb/repositories/), it will give you some lines to add to the file: /etc/apt/sources.list Once you add then, run the command: # apt-get update This will refresh the repository database. Then search for software package name: # apt-cache search mariadb This will list software packages with their name and description. Use that name with the following command: # apt-get install {name} Most likely it will be: #apt-get install mariadb Pretty trivial. - Hans On 2011-11-23, at 2:23 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > "I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject." > > Count me as 'interested'. Your posts are usually highly educational John and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share your experiences with the rest of us. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 3:35 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL > > I run three VMs pretty much 24/7 here at my home office, one which I call vmDev which is my development machine, another is my Accuzip third party software vm and one final machine runs SQL Server Express for Access clients coming in over the internet. I had a dedicated server for VMs which I actually just upgraded to a new motherboard, DDR3 ram etc in preparation for the new AM3+ bulldozer processor. Given the weak performance of the new processor I am hanging out waiting for the next rev / price drops before taking that plunge. > > what I did do however is move all three of those VMs off onto my 16 core SQL Server machine. The only VM which truly needs much horsepower is the Accuzip VM and my performance dropped by half when I did the move. Whereas I was getting about 8-9 million records / hour on the dedicated VM Server, on Azul SQL Server machine I am lucky to get 4.5 million per hour. The difference is mostly just the core speed. The Magney-Cours server chips that I could afford run at 2.0 ghz and have ddr3 1300 memory (registered and ECC), whereas the new motherboard has DDR 1600 memory and a quad core Phenom lightly overclocked to 3.3 ghz. The additional clock speed and memory speed apparently makes for significant additional horsepower. > > Anyway, I have decided to take the speed hit on the Accuzip VM in order to clean off what was my dedicated VM server and use that for a MySQL machine. As servers go this machine is somewhat wimpy with 4 cores and 16 gigs of memory but for learning MySQL it should suffice. > > There has been a bit of interest expressed in MySQL, with some list members already using it and others trying to learn it. I count myself in the trying to learn it crowd. > > My intention is to go with MariaDB. Since I have Hyper-V running on this machine I am thinking about running mariaDB itself on a VM which would allow me to move the VM should I decide to keep it. > I have to say I am not having a lot of luck getting a Linux distro running on a Hyper-V VM, but if I can make that happen that would be my preference. > > If anyone out there has experience getting a linux distro running in a Hyper-V VM running MariaDB let me know. > > I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the subject. > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 23 20:13:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 21:13:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> I have done some reading about MariaDB and how it is supposed to be a drop in replacement for MySQL. It is fascinating to me the whole process of merging code changes from everyone. Way over my head at this point but interesting none the less. As Oracle updates MySQL some parts of their stuff are apparently being integrated "backwards" into MariaDb, and things that the open source community are adding which Oracle refuses to use are being integrated into MariaDB. Supposedly the best of both worlds but how do they do that? On that note, I found this the other day: http://openlife.cc/blogs/2010/november/leaving-monty-program-and-mariadb Anyway from my reading of the whole thing, for folks wanting all the good stuff, The MariaDb fork is the road we need to travel, until such time as that is sold and the process starts all over. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/23/2011 8:21 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > Anyone and everyone interested in the subject of MySQL and MariaDB is > invited to visit our site (www.artfulsoftware.com), from which you can > download a bunch of chapters of our book plus all the source code for free. > Beyond that, there is a nominal charge for everything, including free > access to everything we add or revise or update during the next year. > > So far, I confess, there is nothing up yet that is specific to MariaDB, but > this is a subject of concern to Peter and me, if only because we would > rather sleep with Monty than Larry (metaphorically speaking of course :). > Soon shall come additional chapters attempting to describe the buy-out, the > momentary allegiance, and the subsequent divorce; and from then on we shall > concentrate on MariaDB, leaving the old (except the obsolete) text intact, > and building upon it as we follow Monty et. al. into the new world of > MariaDB. > > > This is not meant to disparage entirely Oracle's efforts in the MySQL > realm. The documentation, to take only one example, has improved, and they > have added some useful code as well. But our allegiance remains with Monty. > > This is an open invitation to all you readers interested in exploring this > frontier, so that we can improve our documentation of same. We (Peter > Brawley and I) shall try to answer your questions, and we are especially > interested in the hurdles you find difficult when switching from MS SQL and > other databases, entering the admittedly different world of MySQL and > MariaDB. Since the original model was Oracle, I'm guessing that Oracle > users will have the path of least resistance, but otoh if they're already > into Oracle then why backtrack, except to avoid the huge licensing costs? > Not that that's insufficient reason. But I digress. What I'm interested in > is the Access and MS SQL user-place, and helping in those arenas. > > Arthur > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Darryl Collins< > darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote: > >> "I look forward to discussing MySQL with everyone interested in the >> subject." >> >> Count me as 'interested'. Your posts are usually highly educational John >> and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share your experiences >> with the rest of us. >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. >> >> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Nov 24 08:37:56 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:37:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I doubt that Monty will sell MariaDB, for two reasons: 1) he made enough money from selling MySQL to Larry to last him a few decades; 2) once bitten by the corporate sharks, it's doubtful you'll find him swimming again. Arthur On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:13 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Anyway from my reading of the whole thing, for folks wanting all the good > stuff, The MariaDb fork is the road we need to travel, until such time as > that is sold and the process starts all over. > > John W. Colby > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Thu Nov 24 08:52:56 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:52:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. Thanks for sharing. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > > > zzle/> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz > zle/ > > Rocky > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Nov 24 09:34:02 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 07:34:02 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Also, he doesn't have any more daughters to name the next database by. :) - Hans On 2011-11-24, at 6:37 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I doubt that Monty will sell MariaDB, for two reasons: 1) he made enough > money from selling MySQL to Larry to last him a few decades; 2) once bitten > by the corporate sharks, it's doubtful you'll find him swimming again. > > Arthur > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:13 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> Anyway from my reading of the whole thing, for folks wanting all the good >> stuff, The MariaDb fork is the road we need to travel, until such time as >> that is sold and the process starts all over. >> >> John W. Colby >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 24 11:54:09 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:54:09 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE060@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ECDA851.7060304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <8C8D533449CB492CB01C17DBACE8B3D5@creativesystemdesigns.com> I believe some people can not be bought and Monty is probably one of them. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL I doubt that Monty will sell MariaDB, for two reasons: 1) he made enough money from selling MySQL to Larry to last him a few decades; 2) once bitten by the corporate sharks, it's doubtful you'll find him swimming again. Arthur On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:13 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Anyway from my reading of the whole thing, for folks wanting all the good > stuff, The MariaDb fork is the road we need to travel, until such time as > that is sold and the process starts all over. > > John W. Colby > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 24 11:55:11 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:55:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Will we live that long? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. Thanks for sharing. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > > > zzle/> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz > zle/ > > Rocky > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Thu Nov 24 12:07:46 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:07:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007><4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Will we live that long? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the > challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to > stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. > Thanks for sharing. > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. >> >> >> > > zzle/> >> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-hardest-puz >> zle/ >> >> Rocky >> From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Nov 24 12:26:01 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:26:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007><4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com><121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Message-ID: So far, so good, eh? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:08 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Will we live that long? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the > challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to > stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. > Thanks for sharing. > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. >> >> >> > est-pu >> zzle/> >> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-harde > st-puz >> zle/ >> >> Rocky >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Thu Nov 24 16:41:59 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:41:59 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE352@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Indeed, I have passed this on myself to a few people excess capacity in both brain power and spare time - lucky bugger ;) good on them though, all of them deserve it. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, 25 November 2011 1:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. Thanks for sharing. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > > > est-pu > zzle/> > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-harde > st-puz > zle/ > > Rocky > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Nov 24 19:38:11 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:38:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. Browse sourceforge.net sometime. When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first page: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 years, than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. At least in the USA. Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant Technologies, etc. Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. From vbacreations at gmail.com Thu Nov 24 21:15:14 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:15:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Message-ID: When I clicked link says Page Lost On Nov 24, 2011 1:27 PM, "Rocky Smolin" wrote: > So far, so good, eh? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Will we live that long? > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > > Fields > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > > > Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the > > challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to > > stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. > > Thanks for sharing. > > T > > > > Tina Norris Fields > > tinanfields at torchlake.com > > 231-322-2787 > > > > > > On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > >> > >> > >> > > > est-pu > >> zzle/> > >> > > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-harde > > st-puz > >> zle/ > >> > >> Rocky > >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Thu Nov 24 21:26:04 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 03:26:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007> <4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com> <121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE5B9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> It is because the original post didn't constrain the link text with << >>, so it is broken on the word wrap. Try: <> Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson Sent: Friday, 25 November 2011 2:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' When I clicked link says Page Lost On Nov 24, 2011 1:27 PM, "Rocky Smolin" wrote: > So far, so good, eh? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Will we live that long? > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina > > Norris Fields > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > > > Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the > > challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to > > stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. > > Thanks for sharing. > > T > > > > Tina Norris Fields > > tinanfields at torchlake.com > > 231-322-2787 > > > > > > On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. > >> > >> > >> > > > rd > > est-pu > >> zzle/> > >> > > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-har > > de > > st-puz > >> zle/ > >> > >> Rocky > >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Nov 24 21:48:40 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:48:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> Message-ID: <4ECF1018.5020706@colbyconsulting.com> I hear you. OTOH there are success stories including Linux itself. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/24/2011 8:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. > This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. > > Browse sourceforge.net sometime. > When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first > page: > http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ > 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! > > There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 > years, > than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. > > Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. > At least in the USA. > Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant > Technologies, etc. > > Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... > Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. > > My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Nov 24 22:04:33 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:04:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECF1018.5020706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com>, <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net>, <4ECF1018.5020706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ECF13D1.27064.531B7266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Just a few of the sourceforge projects I use quite regularly: VLC Player, Gimp, Ghostscript, VirtualDub, Inkscape, Audacity, PDFCreator, TightVNC, AngryIPScanner -- Stuart On 24 Nov 2011 at 22:48, jwcolby wrote: > I hear you. OTOH there are success stories including Linux itself. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/24/2011 8:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > > My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. > > This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. > > > > Browse sourceforge.net sometime. > > When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first > > page: > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ > > 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! > > > > There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 > > years, > > than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. > > > > Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. > > At least in the USA. > > Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant > > Technologies, etc. > > > > Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... > > Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. > > > > My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 24 23:24:05 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:24:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> Message-ID: <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> Some application go and some stay. We have to look no further than Google, Microsoft, Adobe or Oracle to see how many applications they have bailed on, in even the last year. That is the nature of the business. We can look at other applications like Linux, MySQL, Apache, MS Word, Windows and hundreds more and these ones have survived and have become part of the computer infrastructure. MariaDB is MySQL, same designer, same code. I have been using DBDesigner 4 for about 8 years and the creators are long gone. It is still great at building MS SQL and MySQL schemas from graphics. Interesting to note that the "ta-lib" set of tools are been redesigned as of May 2011, but by a different company, this time with a GNU license. Just like MS Access, it is not dead and people will be using it for years even if Microsoft abandons it all together. Which might not be a bad thing as then some unrestricted developers could Open Source it, rebuild the application, with C# (RonR, F#, C++) instead of VB, translator from VB to C#, full web interface and with a DB BE that would even make Oracle shutter. My thought is do not worry, do your research, just pick some nice tools or applications that does what you need and then abandon it when it doesn't. There is always another great application coming along. OTOH, just like the song say, "...know when to hold, know when to fold, know when to walk away, know when to run..." Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 5:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. Browse sourceforge.net sometime. When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first page: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 years, than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. At least in the USA. Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant Technologies, etc. Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Nov 24 23:26:22 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:26:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECF13D1.27064.531B7266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <4ECF1018.5020706@colbyconsulting.com> <4ECF13D1.27064.531B7266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: All absolute excellent products and you have just touched the surface. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 8:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL Just a few of the sourceforge projects I use quite regularly: VLC Player, Gimp, Ghostscript, VirtualDub, Inkscape, Audacity, PDFCreator, TightVNC, AngryIPScanner -- Stuart On 24 Nov 2011 at 22:48, jwcolby wrote: > I hear you. OTOH there are success stories including Linux itself. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/24/2011 8:38 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > > My comment is regarding the whole "open source" initiative. > > This is somewhat targeted to MARIADB. > > > > Browse sourceforge.net sometime. > > When I searched using "Excel" as a keyword....this came up in the first > > page: > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/ta-lib/ > > 4 YEARS OLD. "The age is the key here". FOUR YEARS ?!! > > > > There are so many "open source" initiatives that have died in the past 10 > > years, > > than American programmers that have been effectively outsourced. > > > > Sourceforge truly depicts the risk of being in the software business. > > At least in the USA. > > Otherwise, you'll get hardy laughs from executives at WiPro, HCL, Cognizant > > Technologies, etc. > > > > Don't get me wrong: go with MARIADB..... > > Just beware of the risks of your "investment" in time and other resources. > > > > My explorations on sourceforge have been a true "WAKE UP" call. > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pedro at plex.nl Fri Nov 25 09:53:59 2011 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:53:59 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Access and Word import Message-ID: <201111250853.pAP8rx5P028738@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Group, I have a MS-Word file with data that is given at the end of this mail. I would like to select out the number T10-00008 and 5 positions after the words "Radicaliteit:" en "Diff:", with a script or macro and save these in Access or in a txt file for importing in Access. The textfile looks like "T10-00008";"plus ";"+++ " "T10-00014";"negat ";"++ " or in Access like: Number Radi Diff T10-00008 plus +++ T10-00014 negat ++ Thanks Pedro ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** T10-00008 2010-01-04 pn: 00000000, gb: ............................ CONCLUSIE: Patient met tumor. Radicaliteit: plus , ......... Diff: +++ ....... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** T10-00014 ..................etc CONCLUSIE: Algemene malaise. Radicaliteit: negatief , ......... Diff: ++ ....... From marksimms at verizon.net Fri Nov 25 07:44:47 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:44:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> Someone said MARIADB is the same source code as MYSQL ? I find it hard to believe that greedy Larry Ellison made that kind of deal with the originators of MYSQL. It's not like him to permit competition !! Larry loves to not just "level the playing field", but to destroy it. From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Nov 25 08:51:45 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 06:51:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> Message-ID: Mark, MySQL is released under the GPL v2. Oracle purchased Suns assets with this understanding (and likewise, Sun purchased MySQL AB knowingly accepting the terms of the license), so Oracle couldn't lock up the code even if they wanted to. There are things they can do, like provide proprietary extensions and they could even just remove download links to the source code (or kill the project altogether), but it is fully within the rights of anyone to fork the code and do with it whatever they want legally. Fortunately, Oracle seems to be somewhat accepting of their situation for the time being. - Hans On 2011-11-25, at 5:44 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Someone said MARIADB is the same source code as MYSQL ? > > > I find it hard to believe that greedy Larry Ellison made that kind of deal > with the originators of MYSQL. > It's not like him to permit competition !! Larry loves to not just "level > the playing field", but to destroy it. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 25 09:22:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:22:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> Message-ID: <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> > Someone said MARIADB is the same source code as MYSQL ? MariaDB is the same source code base, taken from MySQL. Take what I say with a heaping handful of salt but my understanding is that the license for an open source project states something like - You may take this source base. If you modify any of this base code you must offer the changes back to the community. You may however add entirely new code for functionality that does not exist in the source base, and if you do you do not have to offer that back to the community. I am not intimately familiar with the history (Perhaps Arthur can step up here) but it seems that Sun was the "originator of" the source base. When they made any modifications of any kind including major new enhancements, they were adding those mods to the source base and they were available under the open source license. Oracle bought Sun. Oracle decided to hold onto major new enhancements and not offer them back to the community. Thus Oracle is building MySQL editions for sale which use the code base plus their enhancements. MariaDB took the code base and "forked it" and started adding major new enhancements which are kept in the open source community. From what I can tell, because it is in the public domain, Oracle can if they wish take the enhancements that MariaDB makes and add those into the base that they make available for free, and because that is in their "for sale" version they can use those enhancements in their "for sale" versions. But we will never see their "for sale" enhancements without paying their licensing fees. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/25/2011 8:44 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Someone said MARIADB is the same source code as MYSQL ? > > > I find it hard to believe that greedy Larry Ellison made that kind of deal > with the originators of MYSQL. > It's not like him to permit competition !! Larry loves to not just "level > the playing field", but to destroy it. > > > From marksimms at verizon.net Fri Nov 25 11:34:53 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:34:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> Wow, let get this crazy GPL stuff straight: Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them into their version and give them away OR.... It can even sell them ? Again, I guess I really must understand that in the open source software business, the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Nov 25 12:13:14 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:13:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> Message-ID: > Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them > into their version and give them away OR?. It can even sell them ? Technically, you can, but only as a redistribution price and you are bound by terms of the GPL to also distribute the source code along with it. You cannot "sell the software" as in "selling the rights to use it". That is not permissible, since they do not own the rights to the MariaDB source code. > the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and, MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? That's right. Also, a lot of open source businesses are supported by means of funding by different companies that depend on their products. And, on occasion, those businesses then get snapped up by larger organisations (ie. Oracle, IBM, etc). On the flip side, if the project is very successful in the community and the owners prefer to donate their project to the greater good of the community, what can also happen is that they donate the code to the protection of someone like the Apache Software Foundation (ie. like Hadoop, Apache web server, Cassandra DB, etc). - Hans On 2011-11-25, at 9:34 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Wow, let get this crazy GPL stuff straight: > > Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them into > their version and give them away OR.... > It can even sell them ? > > Again, I guess I really must understand that in the open source software > business, the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and > MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 25 12:20:19 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 04:20:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com>, <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> Message-ID: <4ECFDC63.14826.20349C6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Take a look at http://www.mysql.com/products/community/ and http://www.mysql.com/products/ Oracle sell support and add-ons. Any MariaDB enhancements would have to be incorporated in the core Community Edition, not in one of their proprietary add-ons. -- Stuart. On 25 Nov 2011 at 12:34, Mark Simms wrote: > Wow, let get this crazy GPL stuff straight: > > Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them into > their version and give them away OR.... > It can even sell them ? > > Again, I guess I really must understand that in the open source software > business, the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and > MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Fri Nov 25 12:39:13 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:39:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' In-Reply-To: References: <72DE3EAC2AB84C5DB0630455BD8A6413@HAL9007><4ECE5A48.20400@torchlake.com><121AE5BD67F64D45B74C22337DCA206C@creativesys temdesigns.com><4ECE87F2.7090106@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <4ECFE0D1.7090304@torchlake.com> Umm - yes, so far. I woke up this morning and I'm still here. Must be a good thing. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/24/2011 1:26 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > So far, so good, eh? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' > > Don't know - I'm trying to. :-) > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Will we live that long? >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris >> Fields >> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:53 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help solve the 'world's hardest puzzle' >> >> Although they'll have these done before I have time to commit to the >> challenge, it is a wonderful challenge. When I am wealthy enough to >> stop worrying about earning a living, I will enjoy such challenges. >> Thanks for sharing. >> T >> >> Tina Norris Fields >> tinanfields at torchlake.com >> 231-322-2787 >> >> >> On 11/19/2011 10:23 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> Tired of minesweeper? This is very cool. >>> >>> >>> >> > est-pu >>> zzle/> >>> >> http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/19/help-solve-worlds-harde >> st-puz >>> zle/ >>> >>> Rocky >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Nov 25 12:43:10 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:43:10 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL In-Reply-To: <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> References: <4ECD20BA.1060301@colbyconsulting.com> <000501ccab12$e489d120$ad9d7360$@net> <2D25F189B75A45E28EFBA66B3E925704@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004601ccab78$65d11c10$31735430$@net> <4ECFB2A7.2040209@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01ccab98$8b1f6150$a15e23f0$@net> Message-ID: That is correct. One of Microsoft's very reliable revenue streams is product support. ;-) A company may need a piece of software to run their business and they will just hire a software developer to add some enhancements for their purposes and then hire an integrator to assemble a group of packages. They will of course know any improvements dealing directly with the core will have to be added back to the license but they will have a complete set of source code at the end, which is an ultimate form of business security. All these transactions of course make money, the software continues to evolve and improve at a much more rapid pace than proprietary designed products. (You only have to look at how long IE6 languished and how fast such products like FF evolved. To MS's credit, they have worked very hard to keep pace but do not have the number of programmers and they are just viewing the support of IE as nothing more than the cost of doing business.) The business is more like a code rental where the renters are encouraged to make improvements, than a product purchase, so the renters are no longer stuck to the whims of a proprietary system and continuous licensing fees. I for one, have probably spent a lot of money on donating to various Open Source products, 10, 25 and sometimes a hundred, over the years. If I like the software, I like to encourage it. To add a political note; Open Source software can be viewed as a blend of socialized software and free-enterprise, both in their purest forms. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 9:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clearing the decks for MySQL Wow, let get this crazy GPL stuff straight: Oracle can take the MariaDB enhancements and either incorporate them into their version and give them away OR.... It can even sell them ? Again, I guess I really must understand that in the open source software business, the money is no longer in the code, but in the SUPPORT and MAINTENANCE agreement, correct ? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Nov 25 14:50:01 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:50:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How many frames per second can the human eye see? Message-ID: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Nov 25 16:52:14 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 08:52:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How many frames per second can the human eye see? In-Reply-To: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED01C1E.25389.2FC3ACD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Great stuff - thought provoking. -- Stuart On 25 Nov 2011 at 15:50, jwcolby wrote: > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 26 08:28:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:28:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman Message-ID: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeWindowsBetter.aspx From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat Nov 26 10:05:21 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:05:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How many frames per second can the human eye see? In-Reply-To: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED10E41.4010504@torchlake.com> Interesting. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 11/25/2011 3:50 PM, jwcolby wrote: > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 10:22:39 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:22:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How many frames per second can the human eye see? In-Reply-To: <4ED10E41.4010504@torchlake.com> References: <4ECFFF79.6010004@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED10E41.4010504@torchlake.com> Message-ID: I'm not seeing the link or whatever, but am curious to know more. Makes me think of the seemingly-backwards-turning stagecoach wheels in old Westerns. A. On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Tina Norris Fields < tinanfields at torchlake.com> wrote: > Interesting. > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > > On 11/25/2011 3:50 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > -- Cell: 647.710.1314 Thirty spokes converge on a hub but it's the emptiness that makes a wheel work -- from the Daodejing From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 10:38:24 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:38:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting up a blog. I love to write. That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog service sites ? I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ And it appears Wordpress is the best. However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to purchase the software and templates, etc. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > indowsBetter.aspx > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 10:41:29 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:41:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] blog censorship In-Reply-To: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <003c01ccac5a$3fdbdf30$bf939d90$@net> http://ncacblog.wordpress.com/ Yep, there's even a wordpress blog about blog censorship !! From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 11:18:46 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:18:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9F9D0EDD24B84A089305018C286D10CC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeWindow sBetter.aspx -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 11:37:00 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:37:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> Message-ID: Hi Mark: Wordpress is definitely the best as far as I have seen. A Wordpress site was set up for my wife so she could organize a large project that covered a number of countries. It was very successful but not the traditional use for the site as just a Blog. Wordpress is written in PHP, not that a user has to know but for the more adventuresome individual there are thousands of hacks that can allow you to do anything...and if you are or what to learn PHP, a massive mature language, you can make Wordpress do anything. Many people view Wordpress blogs that don't even know it as the site has been so tricked up. The only thing that would be really nice is if you could access a database but I am sure someone has figured out how. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Blogging When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting up a blog. I love to write. That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog service sites ? I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ And it appears Wordpress is the best. However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to purchase the software and templates, etc. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > indowsBetter.aspx > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 12:20:14 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:20:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> Message-ID: I use WordPress for my blog and have been extremely happy with it. They've recently added the ability to implement social media sharing to various site by simply turning on the ones you want. The dashboard is busy but less complicated than it looks. The one thing I haven't figured out yet (haven't tried to hard either!) is how to back link it to my website. It's on the website already as a tab, but if you go straight in through http://charlottefoust.wordpress.com/ there's no direct link to the site. Charlotte Foust On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting > up a blog. > I love to write. > That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog > service sites ? > I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ > > > And it appears Wordpress is the best. > However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. > Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? > In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? > Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to > purchase > the software and templates, etc. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > > Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > > > > indowsBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Sat Nov 26 13:36:37 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:36:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. Here is what I have picked up so far. Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to ?evil doers? who may try to get at it. There are several ?remote control? products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on ?peripheral? topics. Thanks, Brad From garykjos at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 13:56:10 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:56:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I use remote desktop via a secure VPN encrypted connection. Not sure what is done on the server end to allow this to work but we use Cisco VPN Client software We each have security key fob type things that display a changing number and we have to enter that number along with our login info to make it work. GK On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. > > I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. ?We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. > > I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). > > I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). > > I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. > > Here is what I have picked up so far. > > Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to ?evil doers? who may try to get at it. > > There are several ?remote control? products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. > > As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. > > I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on ?peripheral? topics. > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Sat Nov 26 15:18:30 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:18:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <00ce01ccac80$f271aff0$d7550fd0$@cox.net> I have a client who's IT folks set up a VPN and I use remote desktop to work on that system. For all others I use Techinline.com. It costs $ but seems fast and works all over the world. They have several purchase programs. We don't use much so buy 20 sessions at a time. A session is good for a day. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. Here is what I have picked up so far. Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to "evil doers" who may try to get at it. There are several "remote control" products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on "peripheral" topics. Thanks, Brad From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat Nov 26 15:27:01 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:27:01 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082957B97A785A0@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> I remote to my desktop to get around cytrix which we are supposed to use. I also use vnc to remote to another system. Martin Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Brad Marks Sent: 26/11/2011 19:41 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. Here is what I have picked up so far. Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to ?evil doers? who may try to get at it. There are several ?remote control? products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on ?peripheral? topics. Thanks, Brad From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 16:25:40 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 17:25:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002601ccac8a$54d8f230$fe8ad690$@net> I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Nov 26 18:02:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 19:02:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED17E1A.5060805@colbyconsulting.com> I use Hamachi to set up a Virtual Private Network. Only people that I allow can join the network. I join the network as a client and I set up the server side on the system I want to control. Voila, static IP. Hamachi can be disabled but most small shops do not know how nor for that matter that it even exists. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/26/2011 2:36 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. > > I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. > > I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). > > I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). > > I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. > > Here is what I have picked up so far. > > Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to ?evil doers? who may try to get at it. > > There are several ?remote control? products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. > > As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. > > I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on ?peripheral? topics. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 26 18:23:37 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:23:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <9F9D0EDD24B84A089305018C286D10CC@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <9F9D0EDD24B84A089305018C286D10CC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. It's great. On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeWindow > sBetter.aspx > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 26 18:35:05 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:35:05 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net>, Message-ID: <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> With Wordpress, you can either create a new blog on the Wordpress site or download it and install it on your own web server. All you need to run it on any hosted website is PHP 5.2.4+ and MySQL 5.0+ support. They are almost universal. Since it uses MySQL for the BE, you can access the databse with phpMyAdmin which should come with any hosting package that offers PHP/MySQL. If you want to host it on your own server, You just need to install WAMP or XAMP and then Wordpress. If you set it up on a hosting service, the only real potential censorship is the hosting organisation closing your site down. If you set it up on your own server, the only potential censorship is your Connection Provider cutting you off completely. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:37, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Mark: > > Wordpress is definitely the best as far as I have seen. A Wordpress site was > set up for my wife so she could organize a large project that covered a > number of countries. It was very successful but not the traditional use for > the site as just a Blog. > > Wordpress is written in PHP, not that a user has to know but for the more > adventuresome individual there are thousands of hacks that can allow you to > do anything...and if you are or what to learn PHP, a massive mature > language, you can make Wordpress do anything. Many people view Wordpress > blogs that don't even know it as the site has been so tricked up. > > The only thing that would be really nice is if you could access a database > but I am sure someone has figured out how. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:38 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Blogging > > When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting > up a blog. > I love to write. > That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog > service sites ? > I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ > And it appears Wordpress is the best. > However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. > Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? > In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? > Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to purchase > the software and templates, etc. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > > Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > > indowsBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 19:15:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 17:15:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <4ED17E1A.5060805@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED17E1A.5060805@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <2FC223ECE659421AAEB320B52C09E62C@creativesystemdesigns.com> I agree the Hamachi is the securest and simplest VPN to setup and then whatever remote desktop software you want to use is just fine as its security is irrelevant. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 4:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access I use Hamachi to set up a Virtual Private Network. Only people that I allow can join the network. I join the network as a client and I set up the server side on the system I want to control. Voila, static IP. Hamachi can be disabled but most small shops do not know how nor for that matter that it even exists. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/26/2011 2:36 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > My background is in the IBM Mainframe database realm but I am trying to get up to speed in the world of Microsoft. > > I work part time for a small firm that has a very limited IT budget. We have several applications that have been built with Access 2007. > > I would like to occasionally monitor and control these Access applications from an offsite location (like a beach in Florida). > > I have limited knowledge of networking (enough to be dangerous). > > I am curious how others access their applications from a remote location. > > Here is what I have picked up so far. > > Remote desktop is fast, but requires a static IP address and it may open up the PC to "evil doers" who may try to get at it. > > There are several "remote control" products such as LogMeIn and RealVNC which would enable remote access, but are not nearly as fast as Remote Desktop. > > As you can see, my knowledge of this realm is very limited. > > I know that AccessD is primarily a forum about Microsoft Access but it seems as if there are a lot of knowledgeable people who participate in this forum on "peripheral" topics. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 19:19:29 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 17:19:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <5FC737C6594A47ECBFEF1A94AC765A56@creativesystemdesigns.com> Moreover, there you have the best way...a little more work than a having WP host it but unlimited options. I guess most of the DBA members have their own servers. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 4:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blogging With Wordpress, you can either create a new blog on the Wordpress site or download it and install it on your own web server. All you need to run it on any hosted website is PHP 5.2.4+ and MySQL 5.0+ support. They are almost universal. Since it uses MySQL for the BE, you can access the databse with phpMyAdmin which should come with any hosting package that offers PHP/MySQL. If you want to host it on your own server, You just need to install WAMP or XAMP and then Wordpress. If you set it up on a hosting service, the only real potential censorship is the hosting organisation closing your site down. If you set it up on your own server, the only potential censorship is your Connection Provider cutting you off completely. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:37, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Mark: > > Wordpress is definitely the best as far as I have seen. A Wordpress site was > set up for my wife so she could organize a large project that covered a > number of countries. It was very successful but not the traditional use for > the site as just a Blog. > > Wordpress is written in PHP, not that a user has to know but for the more > adventuresome individual there are thousands of hacks that can allow you to > do anything...and if you are or what to learn PHP, a massive mature > language, you can make Wordpress do anything. Many people view Wordpress > blogs that don't even know it as the site has been so tricked up. > > The only thing that would be really nice is if you could access a database > but I am sure someone has figured out how. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:38 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Blogging > > When I saw this post of the hanselman blog, it made me think about starting > up a blog. > I love to write. > That being said, anyone have good or bad experiences with certain blog > service sites ? > I've looked at this: http://blog-services-review.toptenreviews.com/ > And it appears Wordpress is the best. > However, I am worried about censorship....language, etc. > Do they warn you first, or just shut down your blog ? > In other words, how closely monitored are these services ? > Another option of course, is to get my own site, but then I have to purchase > the software and templates, etc. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver- > > Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMakeW > > indowsBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Nov 26 20:06:10 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 20:06:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <9F9D0EDD24B84A089305018C286D10CC@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I want them. Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. It's great. On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > Window > sBetter.aspx > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 26 20:24:46 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:24:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Nov 26 21:25:49 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:25:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel - at a 'small' price! Is it worth $9.95? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 22:08:22 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 23:08:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net>, <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001101ccacba$34c12730$9e437590$@net> Wow, thanks for that Stuart. Yes, and it is incredible that censorship is "THE ISSUE" surrounding BLOGGING. I had a funny feeling that would be the case....and I was proven 100% correct. If you guys haven't determined by now, I'm shortly moving into a new and "risqu?" area now.... far, far away from IT....relative to the core of my business at present. Still, I'll be using some of my IT talents to some degree...and that's THE good thing. Boy, is this a great American paraphrase or what ? : "Ya gotta do, what ya gotta do". And that, my friends, is my modus-operandi. I am right now on my final "stinker" contract (3 months, high pressure, low pay).... Not just one, but multiple agencies are now making money off of my talents... while "I do the work, and they make the money". It all ends in March 2012. After that, if all goes well, I am into a whole new world....and "so be it". And guys (and gals), this new world is simply crazy...with DEMAND.... something I have NOT witnessed in the past 5 years ! Unlike 15 years ago, I've never heard any recruiter or agency over the past 5 years say anything like: "wow, your talent is really in demand, you're really valuable". NOPE: None...Nada...Zippo..Zilch...Zed...Zero. The Indians simply LEVELED the IT contracting marketplace. I mean, it was NUCLEAR in it's effects ! In fact, recent interviews were actually DEMEANING to me. Yep, you bet...even in the good old USA. Bottomline: Employment Agencies....."rule the roost". They're in complete control. Someone on this fine list once said that "they?ve got an monopoly". INDEED they do. If you don't have the latest and greatest "in-demand" skills...you are completely worthless....a pathetic $40 or $50 bucks an hour....at most....no benefits. That's a net $20/hr gig essentially. Heck, many college grads are making more than that with no experience. Newly minted "PharmD's" are at $60/hr. The key to my new world is "fulfillment"....BUT that is easier said than done. To be successful, it will require tremendous "attention to detail". How many times have we all heard that ? And so, that becomes my new mission in life. Sorry if this has become a diatribe of sorts...I had some wine tonight...an excellent and rich Cabernet: Arrowood 2003, Sonoma County, CA. Whew, it "rocks". From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Nov 26 22:30:01 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:30:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel - at > a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently > on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > > want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 22:52:11 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 23:52:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <005401ccacc0$5418ee00$fc4aca00$@gmail.com> Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as $19.95. I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be cycled through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different fences depending on the view selected. Is that possible? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 23:47:49 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:47:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <001101ccacba$34c12730$9e437590$@net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001101ccacba$34c12730$9e437590$@net> Message-ID: <31EE8F0063874009A8F60ADCB58126C7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Mark: Well, don't just leave us hanging, tell us what you are up to. I promise I will not follow you. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blogging Wow, thanks for that Stuart. Yes, and it is incredible that censorship is "THE ISSUE" surrounding BLOGGING. I had a funny feeling that would be the case....and I was proven 100% correct. If you guys haven't determined by now, I'm shortly moving into a new and "risqui" area now.... far, far away from IT....relative to the core of my business at present. Still, I'll be using some of my IT talents to some degree...and that's THE good thing. Boy, is this a great American paraphrase or what ? : "Ya gotta do, what ya gotta do". And that, my friends, is my modus-operandi. I am right now on my final "stinker" contract (3 months, high pressure, low pay).... Not just one, but multiple agencies are now making money off of my talents... while "I do the work, and they make the money". It all ends in March 2012. After that, if all goes well, I am into a whole new world....and "so be it". And guys (and gals), this new world is simply crazy...with DEMAND.... something I have NOT witnessed in the past 5 years ! Unlike 15 years ago, I've never heard any recruiter or agency over the past 5 years say anything like: "wow, your talent is really in demand, you're really valuable". NOPE: None...Nada...Zippo..Zilch...Zed...Zero. The Indians simply LEVELED the IT contracting marketplace. I mean, it was NUCLEAR in it's effects ! In fact, recent interviews were actually DEMEANING to me. Yep, you bet...even in the good old USA. Bottomline: Employment Agencies....."rule the roost". They're in complete control. Someone on this fine list once said that "theyve got an monopoly". INDEED they do. If you don't have the latest and greatest "in-demand" skills...you are completely worthless....a pathetic $40 or $50 bucks an hour....at most....no benefits. That's a net $20/hr gig essentially. Heck, many college grads are making more than that with no experience. Newly minted "PharmD's" are at $60/hr. The key to my new world is "fulfillment"....BUT that is easier said than done. To be successful, it will require tremendous "attention to detail". How many times have we all heard that ? And so, that becomes my new mission in life. Sorry if this has become a diatribe of sorts...I had some wine tonight...an excellent and rich Cabernet: Arrowood 2003, Sonoma County, CA. Whew, it "rocks". From vbacreations at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 23:47:59 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 00:47:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <005a01ccacc8$1f796d70$5e6c4850$@gmail.com> When I clicked BUY at 19.95, that is when it reduces the price... no other warning. So, thanks for the tip~! -----Original Message----- From: William Benson (VBACreations.Com) [mailto:vbacreations at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as $19.95. I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be cycled through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different fences depending on the view selected. Is that possible? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 00:05:45 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 16:05:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <005a01ccacc8$1f796d70$5e6c4850$@gmail.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <>, <005a01ccacc8$1f796d70$5e6c4850$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ED1D339.10234.9AF7F11@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> This page shows $19.95 in red and struck out with $9.95 in black beside it: http://www.stardock.com/products/ as does this page: http://www.stardock.com/products/fences/purchase.asp -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 0:47, William Benson (VBACreations. wrote: > When I clicked BUY at 19.95, that is when it reduces the price... no other > warning. So, thanks for the tip~! > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Benson (VBACreations.Com) [mailto:vbacreations at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as > $19.95. > > I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be cycled > through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different > fences depending on the view selected. > > Is that possible? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently > on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > > want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Sun Nov 27 00:10:05 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 01:10:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED1D339.10234.9AF7F11@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <005a01ccacc8$1f796d70$5e6c4850$@gmail.com> <4ED1D339.10234.9AF7F11@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Bought a gift copy for my client whose bday was last week. On Nov 27, 2011 1:07 AM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > This page shows $19.95 in red and struck out with $9.95 in black beside it: > > http://www.stardock.com/products/ > as does this page: > http://www.stardock.com/products/fences/purchase.asp > > > -- > Stuart > > On 27 Nov 2011 at 0:47, William Benson (VBACreations. wrote: > > > When I clicked BUY at 19.95, that is when it reduces the price... no > other > > warning. So, thanks for the tip~! > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: William Benson (VBACreations.Com) [mailto:vbacreations at gmail.com] > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:52 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as > > $19.95. > > > > I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be > cycled > > through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different > > fences depending on the view selected. > > > > Is that possible? > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently > > on "special" at > > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > the > > > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them > where I > > > want them. > > > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > > > Dan > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows > > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to > > it. > > > It's great. > > > > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > John W. Colby > > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > > > Window > > > > sBetter.aspx > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Nov 27 05:26:05 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:26:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Message-ID: Hi Brad and Mark It's more than just fine. It's excellent, and we set up the free version routinely on all workstations as my colleagues often work out of the house. Also, they often have dedicated workstations at clients where we install it too so these machines can be reached from our office (or home or other clients' locations). It can't be made easier to set up - takes a minute or so and works through any firewall and requires zero "special" things to be done. For more dedicated use, however, we do establish Remote Desktop to an in-house terminal server because of the local printing option. Some prefer TeamViewer which is excellent too. However, the free version is for "private use" only and we are reluctant to install such software for professional use. /gustav >>> marksimms at verizon.net 26-11-2011 23:25 >>> I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 09:27:59 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:27:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08EE19CB-844B-4186-B8A7-BCA64F8D1FA0@verizon.net> I find teamviewer simpler to use then lomein as I find their interface clumsy. Teamviewer is not cheap, but it's well worth the money. The way they license too is great for small shops. Jim Sent from my iPhone On Nov 27, 2011, at 6:26 AM, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Brad and Mark > > It's more than just fine. It's excellent, and we set up the free version routinely on all workstations as my colleagues often work out of the house. Also, they often have dedicated workstations at clients where we install it too so these machines can be reached from our office (or home or other clients' locations). > > It can't be made easier to set up - takes a minute or so and works through any firewall and requires zero "special" things to be done. > For more dedicated use, however, we do establish Remote Desktop to an in-house terminal server because of the local printing option. > > Some prefer TeamViewer which is excellent too. However, the free version is for "private use" only and we are reluctant to install such software for professional use. > > /gustav > > >>>> marksimms at verizon.net 26-11-2011 23:25 >>> > I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 09:39:51 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:39:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and installation. However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 09:50:36 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Blogging In-Reply-To: <31EE8F0063874009A8F60ADCB58126C7@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com> <003b01ccac59$d19966a0$74cc33e0$@net> <4ED185B9.6514.880C4A2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001101ccacba$34c12730$9e437590$@net> <31EE8F0063874009A8F60ADCB58126C7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <003601ccad1c$4eab23f0$ec016bd0$@net> > Well, don't just leave us hanging, tell us what you are up to. I > promise I will not follow you. ;-) I assembled a rough business plan....and now I am in the process of refining it. How ? By visiting my potential competition.... and scoring and ranking them. Yep, that's what the BLOG is going to do. I am most interested in getting independent feedback on the scores and verbal review from other customers. After all, one cannot really make a thorough assessment with only a single transaction. Sooooo.....Jim.... All in good time. From df.waters at comcast.net Sun Nov 27 10:10:04 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:10:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> <4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net> I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic features to be useful. So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > - at a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > them where I want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThat > > > Make > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Nov 27 10:39:39 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 08:39:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net><4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to do and don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, Computer, and drives shortcuts. Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets I use often right from the desktop in another. A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. Another fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm done working on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their folder on comp 2. A fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, Ghost, Lexmark Printer stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic features to be useful. So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > - at a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > them where I want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThat > > > Make > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Sun Nov 27 10:45:06 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:45:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access References: Message-ID: All, Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Gustav Brock Sent: Sun 11/27/2011 5:26 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Hi Brad and Mark It's more than just fine. It's excellent, and we set up the free version routinely on all workstations as my colleagues often work out of the house. Also, they often have dedicated workstations at clients where we install it too so these machines can be reached from our office (or home or other clients' locations). It can't be made easier to set up - takes a minute or so and works through any firewall and requires zero "special" things to be done. For more dedicated use, however, we do establish Remote Desktop to an in-house terminal server because of the local printing option. Some prefer TeamViewer which is excellent too. However, the free version is for "private use" only and we are reluctant to install such software for professional use. /gustav >>> marksimms at verizon.net 26-11-2011 23:25 >>> I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 10:54:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 11:54:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> References: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> Message-ID: <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very easy to use however. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." > > That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and > installation. > However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". > I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 10:57:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 11:57:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> Remote Desktop is tightly integrated with Windows. All the others are layered on top of Windows. Remote Desktop is indeed much much faster in most cases and I prefer RD whenever I can make that work. That is why I prefer Hamachi VPN when I can make that work. I have hard IPs and so I can use RD over Hamachi. Hamachi also allows you to browse network shares on the remote computer and even map network shares to local drive letters if you so desire. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 11:45 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. > > With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. > In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. > > Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? > > I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. > > Brad From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Nov 27 11:04:23 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 09:04:23 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Can you transfer files with remote desktop? I found that you can transfer files with Skype - very handy. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very easy to use however. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." > > That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and > installation. > However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". > I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sun Nov 27 11:22:19 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 11:22:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net><4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net> <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> Message-ID: <001801ccad29$1e64d210$5b2e7630$@comcast.net> I tried it for the first time yesterday. I wanted a fence which enclosed the shortcuts for all my customers' stuff. But within the fence the shortcuts kept 'auto-arranging' themselves, which mixed up the shortcut locations. I wanted each customer's shortcuts in a vertical column, but (for example) the fence would not let me have a column of 7 shortcuts and a column of 5 shortcuts - they kept rearranging to two columns of 6 shortcuts. I hope the pro version does let me put the shortcuts where I want them. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to do and don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, Computer, and drives shortcuts. Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets I use often right from the desktop in another. A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. Another fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm done working on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their folder on comp 2. A fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, Ghost, Lexmark Printer stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic features to be useful. So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > - at a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > them where I want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThat > > > Make > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Nov 27 11:37:54 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 09:37:54 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilitiesthat makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001801ccad29$1e64d210$5b2e7630$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net><4ED1BCC9.30615.957DA19@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net><15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> <001801ccad29$1e64d210$5b2e7630$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <60C88AD8710645D99FEE95AC508DCE83@HAL9007> How about two fences of 6 shortcuts? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilitiesthat makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I tried it for the first time yesterday. I wanted a fence which enclosed the shortcuts for all my customers' stuff. But within the fence the shortcuts kept 'auto-arranging' themselves, which mixed up the shortcut locations. I wanted each customer's shortcuts in a vertical column, but (for example) the fence would not let me have a column of 7 shortcuts and a column of 5 shortcuts - they kept rearranging to two columns of 6 shortcuts. I hope the pro version does let me put the shortcuts where I want them. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to do and don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, Computer, and drives shortcuts. Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets I use often right from the desktop in another. A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. Another fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm done working on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their folder on comp 2. A fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, Ghost, Lexmark Printer stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic features to be useful. So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air conditioning, GPS etc. It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in increased convenience and comfort. But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. -- Stuart On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > - at a 'small' price! > > Is it worth $9.95? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > them where I want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThat > > > Make > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 11:57:57 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:57:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0DD97455-0FDF-4932-8D0B-5490F9AAD5B4@verizon.net> That's not as true as you might think. All run on top of terminal service, but There are other protocols out there that can be used in place of RDP which are more efficient, such as Citrix's. Jim Sent from my iPhone On Nov 27, 2011, at 11:57 AM, jwcolby wrote: > Remote Desktop is tightly integrated with Windows. All the others are layered on top of Windows. Remote Desktop is indeed much much faster in most cases and I prefer RD whenever I can make that work. That is why I prefer Hamachi VPN when I can make that work. I have hard IPs and so I can use RD over Hamachi. Hamachi also allows you to browse network shares on the remote computer and even map network shares to local drive letters if you so desire. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 11:45 AM, Brad Marks wrote: >> All, >> >> Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. >> >> With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. >> In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. >> >> Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? >> >> I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. >> >> Brad > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 12:16:59 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 13:16:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED27E9B.4060704@colbyconsulting.com> I am not sure but RD only works over a VPN and with any vpn you can see and map remote shares. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 12:04 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Can you transfer files with remote desktop? > > I found that you can transfer files with Skype - very handy. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access > > And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very > easy to use however. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: >> Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." >> >> That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and >> installation. >> However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". >> I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Nov 27 12:44:01 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:44:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Message-ID: Hi Mark Nothing to be aware of. It offers this automatically the first time you access your account from a new machine, it is signed, and it's a simple Click-Next-Next install. >>> marksimms at verizon.net 27-11-2011 16:39 >>> Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and installation. However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Nov 27 12:54:31 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:54:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access Message-ID: Hi John No, you can let RDP through any network but only if the required ports are open. And that's exactly the trouble; if you are in control it is just to do it, but if some notwork guy is to be convinced he/she may be a show stopper. For good reasons you may say, because the default port of 3389 is one of those that scanners test so on a public network you should adjust RDP to use another port. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 27-11-2011 19:16 >>> I am not sure but RD only works over a VPN and with any vpn you can see and map remote shares. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 12:04 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Can you transfer files with remote desktop? > > I found that you can transfer files with Skype - very handy. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access > > And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very > easy to use however. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: >> Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." >> >> That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and >> installation. >> However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". >> I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 14:33:28 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:33:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F7B5F914EBB429C940DFD701E134E27@creativesystemdesigns.com> If your network person is concerned then he should put a secure VPN around the connections. (At one time, I worked with a network guy that was over the top with security and it took the manager to say either the consultant has remote connection by noon or you're gone.) There is no remote login system that is absolute 100 percent secure as it is just another open port that some bot can pound away at...for the next 100 years if automated. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access All, Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Gustav Brock Sent: Sun 11/27/2011 5:26 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Hi Brad and Mark It's more than just fine. It's excellent, and we set up the free version routinely on all workstations as my colleagues often work out of the house. Also, they often have dedicated workstations at clients where we install it too so these machines can be reached from our office (or home or other clients' locations). It can't be made easier to set up - takes a minute or so and works through any firewall and requires zero "special" things to be done. For more dedicated use, however, we do establish Remote Desktop to an in-house terminal server because of the local printing option. Some prefer TeamViewer which is excellent too. However, the free version is for "private use" only and we are reluctant to install such software for professional use. /gustav >>> marksimms at verizon.net 26-11-2011 23:25 >>> I think for your occasional usage, Logmein will be just fine. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 14:37:20 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:37:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0129BF58E6474CBA950AFABC145037E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> That combo is definitely the best of all worlds and security as close to 100 percent as our universe allows...with 256-bit encryption. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access Remote Desktop is tightly integrated with Windows. All the others are layered on top of Windows. Remote Desktop is indeed much much faster in most cases and I prefer RD whenever I can make that work. That is why I prefer Hamachi VPN when I can make that work. I have hard IPs and so I can use RD over Hamachi. Hamachi also allows you to browse network shares on the remote computer and even map network shares to local drive letters if you so desire. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 11:45 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. > > With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. > In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. > > Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? > > I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. > > Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 14:40:24 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:40:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: References: <003501ccad1a$ce18f9c0$6a4aed40$@net> <4ED26B2E.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: As far as I know, Skype will allow you copy files up to a certain sizes but RDP will allow you to stream files of any size and of course, it requires no client intervention. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:04 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access Can you transfer files with remote desktop? I found that you can transfer files with Skype - very handy. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] LogMeIn: was Re: Remote Access to Access And you cannot transfer files, at least with the free version. It is very easy to use however. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 10:39 AM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: " requires zero "special" things to be done." > > That's not really true: Be aware of the plug-in requirement and > installation. > However, they did a fine job of making it "browser aware". > I've had no trouble with Firefox 8 or IE 8. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 14:43:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:43:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access In-Reply-To: <0DD97455-0FDF-4932-8D0B-5490F9AAD5B4@verizon.net> References: <4ED26BFD.1020107@colbyconsulting.com> <0DD97455-0FDF-4932-8D0B-5490F9AAD5B4@verizon.net> Message-ID: <93026C743025480B8B4A20812842F191@creativesystemdesigns.com> Microsoft bought its core Terminal service from Citrix and just removed features for the RDP on desktops. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Remote Access to Access That's not as true as you might think. All run on top of terminal service, but There are other protocols out there that can be used in place of RDP which are more efficient, such as Citrix's. Jim Sent from my iPhone On Nov 27, 2011, at 11:57 AM, jwcolby wrote: > Remote Desktop is tightly integrated with Windows. All the others are layered on top of Windows. Remote Desktop is indeed much much faster in most cases and I prefer RD whenever I can make that work. That is why I prefer Hamachi VPN when I can make that work. I have hard IPs and so I can use RD over Hamachi. Hamachi also allows you to browse network shares on the remote computer and even map network shares to local drive letters if you so desire. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 11:45 AM, Brad Marks wrote: >> All, >> >> Thanks for the help and advice. I am still trying to better understand the options. >> >> With our preliminary tests, it appears that Remote Desktop is MUCH MUCH faster than LogMeIn. >> In fact, LogMeIn at times seemed so sluggish that I am not sure that it will work for us. >> >> Is there a fundamental difference in the way that products like LogMeIn and RealVNC work as compared to Remote Desktop? >> >> I would like to go with Remote Desktop, but our network person is not in favor of this because of security concerns and lack of static IP addresses that are available. >> >> Brad > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 17:00:51 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:00:51 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net>, <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ED2C123.2392.D50DEC0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I use it in much the same way as you. The main thing the Pro version does is let you sort within a fence automtically by name, date etc rather than having to arrange the icons individual by drag and drop. It guess it would be useful if you put "lots" of files in a fence, otherwise not a great benefit Apparently what Dan wants is to turn off the "automatic snap to grid" inside a fence and without that ability , he thinks that the application is worthless. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 8:39, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to do and > don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, Computer, and > drives shortcuts. > > Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets I use > often right from the desktop in another. > > A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. Another > fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm done working > on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their folder on comp 2. A > fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, Ghost, Lexmark Printer > stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. > > It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! > > But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is of no > value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I get a little > miffed by the seller who offers a free version which doesn't have the basic > features to be useful. > > So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll have > to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air > conditioning, GPS etc. > > It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to you in > increased > convenience and comfort. > > But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop and > give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. > > Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > > > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel > > - at a 'small' price! > > > > Is it worth $9.95? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > > (Currently on "special" at > > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > > > the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want > > > them where I want them. > > > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > > > Dan > > > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 27 17:02:11 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:02:11 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8A3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yeah, I paid for it as the free version has been so darn useful. I don't mind throwing a bit of cash when folks go ahead and make software that is so darn useful. Of course, your mileage may vary. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, 27 November 2011 2:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering wheel - at a 'small' price! Is it worth $9.95? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sun Nov 27 17:03:37 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:03:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <4ED2C123.2392.D50DEC0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <001201ccad1f$065c5e90$13151bb0$@comcast.net>, <15E35861D4074BC799178DBC7833232B@HAL9007> <4ED2C123.2392.D50DEC0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001c01ccad58$cc20ca10$64625e30$@comcast.net> Hmmmmm - for me, yes. For you, no. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman I use it in much the same way as you. The main thing the Pro version does is let you sort within a fence automtically by name, date etc rather than having to arrange the icons individual by drag and drop. It guess it would be useful if you put "lots" of files in a fence, otherwise not a great benefit Apparently what Dan wants is to turn off the "automatic snap to grid" inside a fence and without that ability , he thinks that the application is worthless. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 8:39, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I use the free version. Fortunately does exactly what I wanted it to > do and don't need anything more. Top line is Recycle Bin, Network, > Computer, and drives shortcuts. > > Access, Word, Excel, and Outlook in another fence. Four spreadsheets > I use often right from the desktop in another. > > A fence around a group of shortcuts - one for each active client. > Another fence with the same shortcuts but on a backup comp so when I'm > done working on a client's db I can drag and drop it right to their > folder on comp 2. A fence around my most used utilities - Filezilla, > Ghost, Lexmark Printer stuff for scanning, etc., Search Everything. > > It's really a wonderful add in. What does the upgrade do? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that > makeWindows better - Scott Hanselman > > I agree with rewarding a developers efforts! > > But in this case, if I can't arrange the icons within the fence, it is > of no value to me. Just like a car without a steering wheel. So I > get a little miffed by the seller who offers a free version which > doesn't have the basic features to be useful. > > So, I'll get the pro version, but if I recommend this to someone, I'll > have to tell them that the free version is worth nothing. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > No, give you a basic car and ask if you would like a CD player, air > conditioning, GPS etc. > > It's up to you decide in your circumstances if it is worth $9.95 to > you in increased > convenience and comfort. > > But if no one buys the optional extras, they can't afford to develop > and give the basic car away at all and everyone loses. > > Personally, I think it is a great way to reward developers' efforts. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 21:25, Dan Waters wrote: > > > OK - sell me a car. Then ask me if I would also like a steering > > wheel > > - at a 'small' price! > > > > Is it worth $9.95? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:25 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > > (Currently on "special" at > > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence > > > all the shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I > > > want them where I want them. > > > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > > > Dan > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 27 17:04:46 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:04:46 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <005401ccacc0$5418ee00$fc4aca00$@gmail.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <005401ccacc0$5418ee00$fc4aca00$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8C0@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Bill, If you go via their site directly, you will see the sale price. Have a look here: <> and click on the Fences link. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Sunday, 27 November 2011 3:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it as $19.95. I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be cycled through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in different fences depending on the view selected. Is that possible? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. (Currently on "special" at $9.95 from the usual $19.95) On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all the > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them where I > want them. > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows > better - Scott Hanselman > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on to it. > It's great. > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi John: > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > Sqlserver-Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > -- > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > Window > > sBetter.aspx > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 17:15:17 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:15:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8A3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <001a01ccacb4$432b6570$c9823050$@comcast.net>, <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8A3@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ED2C485.20949.D5E1328@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> When it only $10-20, I occassionally do the same. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 23:02, Darryl Collins wrote: > Yeah, I paid for it as the free version has been so darn useful. I > don't mind throwing a bit of cash when folks go ahead and make > software that is so darn useful. > > Of course, your mileage may vary. > > Cheers > Darryl > From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 19:27:02 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:27:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make Windows better - Scott Hanselman In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8C0@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ED0F783.8000201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED18309.32210.876440D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <001901ccaca9$221dca90$66595fb0$@comcast.net> <4ED19F6E.19858.8E52DB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <005401ccacc0$5418ee00$fc4aca00$@gmail.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE8C0@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <001501ccad6c$d547afa0$7fd70ee0$@net> Isn't it just best to buy the whole object desktop suite for $50 ? I think that ICON developer is pretty slick. I tried with Photoshop to create my own PNG images for the Ribbon....and for command buttons.... And they really stunk....not very sharp. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > Bill, If you go via their site directly, you will see the sale price. > > Have a look here: <> and click on > the Fences link. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson > (VBACreations.Com) > Sent: Sunday, 27 November 2011 3:52 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > Had checked out the pro version and did not see it as $9.95, I saw it > as $19.95. > > I am interested to know if it will store multiple views that can be > cycled through, so that the same files and folders can be stored in > different fences depending on the view selected. > > Is that possible? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > You need the Pro version to customise the layout inside a fence. > (Currently on "special" at > $9.95 from the usual $19.95) > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 20:06, Dan Waters wrote: > > > I just downloaded Fences. Seems pretty cool, but within a fence all > the > > shortcuts arrange themselves to be 'space saving', but I want them > where I > > want them. > > > > Is there a way to turn off the 'auto-arranging' within a fence? > > > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:24 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > Windows > > better - Scott Hanselman > > > > I've used Fences constantly since someone on the dba lists put me on > to > it. > > It's great. > > > > > > On 26 Nov 2011 at 9:18, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Hi John: > > > > > > Those look like some great little tools...could be very handy. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:28 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; > > > Sqlserver-Dba > > > Subject: [AccessD] Five Absolutely Essential Utilities that make > > > Windows better - Scott Hanselman > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FiveAbsolutelyEssentialUtilitiesThatMake > > > Window > > > sBetter.aspx > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 19:39:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:39:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net Message-ID: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the copy is very light. Is it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 19:57:12 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:57:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I don't know about paint.net, but with any decent image editor it is very easy to do. Even Irfanview allows you to easily manipulate the contrast, birghtness, saturation, gamma correction etc of an image. In fact that is probably the simplest tool you will find to do the job. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 20:39, jwcolby wrote: > I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the copy is very light. Is > it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW > increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 27 20:25:01 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 02:25:01 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DE9F6@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yeah, in my experience MS Paint has to be the worst graphics tool I have ever had the mispleasure to (try) and use. It has never produce good results for me and always resulted in loss of quality. Irfanview on the other had is pretty solid and I use it to make icons etc. That said, I don't have the need to make Icons that often so a dedicated tool hasn't been on my radar. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, 28 November 2011 12:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paint.net I don't know about paint.net, but with any decent image editor it is very easy to do. Even Irfanview allows you to easily manipulate the contrast, birghtness, saturation, gamma correction etc of an image. In fact that is probably the simplest tool you will find to do the job. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 20:39, jwcolby wrote: > I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of > course the copy is very light. Is it possible to darken the washed > out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Nov 27 20:36:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:36:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> Paint.Net looks like a nice program...I have never heard of it before. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the copy is very light. Is it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 21:20:35 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:20:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000001ccad7c$b25e3490$171a9db0$@net> Photoshop could do this one of two ways: 1) special filters 2) select pixels of an image based on a color range - it was very tricky to get it just right, but very powerful when it worked. There was a "fuzziness" setting that you had to work with trial-and-error. The key to this technique is the "washed out text" must be a distinguishable and somewhat unique color range. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:40 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net > > I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of > course the copy is very light. Is > it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also > darkening the background. IOW > increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more > black? > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 21:23:26 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:23:26 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com>, <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED2FEAE.7223.E414525@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I have it installed but have never really done much with it. I just checked it out. To answer JC's question: Yes - it's really simple in Paint.net. Go to Adjustments - Curves Make sure Luminosity is selected. Then click on various points on the straight line you see and drag it into some sort of S shape. A little experimentation with several points on the curve should give you what you want. -- Stuart On 27 Nov 2011 at 18:36, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Paint.Net looks like a nice program...I have never heard of it before. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:40 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net > > I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the > copy is very light. Is > it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also > darkening the background. IOW > increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? > > -- > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Sun Nov 27 21:23:59 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:23:59 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Yes, Jim. Paint.Net is very nice. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 3:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paint.net Paint.Net looks like a nice program...I have never heard of it before. Jim From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun Nov 27 21:53:34 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 03:53:34 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> <28F452091DBF49399F4DF88F0300A737@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEAB4@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Ditto, but it looks very nice. We use GIMP at work, but this (at a glance) looks better. Nice one ! :) thanks. Will download and have a look. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, 28 November 2011 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paint.net Paint.Net looks like a nice program...I have never heard of it before. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net I have to do reports over actual pictures of state documents. Of course the copy is very light. Is it possible to darken the washed out text with Paint.net without also darkening the background. IOW increase the contrast but more than that actually make the grey more black? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 23:38:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 00:38:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4ED31E41.806@colbyconsulting.com> I ended up doing it by reversing black and white, then pulling the brightness up to 100%, then flipping black and white again. I ended up with some speckles (copy crap) but the text itself ended up nice and dark. I tried just pulling the contrast and such but it pulled the background to a gray color. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/27/2011 8:57 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I don't know about paint.net, but with any decent image editor it is very easy to do. > > Even Irfanview allows you to easily manipulate the contrast, birghtness, saturation, gamma > correction etc of an image. In fact that is probably the simplest tool you will find to do the > job. > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Nov 27 23:44:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 00:44:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hard drives are starting to drop in price after the huge price jump from the floods. Message-ID: <4ED31FC1.2050809@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Nov 27 23:44:53 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:44:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Paint.net In-Reply-To: <4ED31E41.806@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED2E661.9000808@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED2EA78.23707.DF25385@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4ED31E41.806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED31FD5.8166.EC2C761@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You might like to try it again using "Curves" and compare the result for future reference. -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 0:38, jwcolby wrote: > I ended up doing it by reversing black and white, then pulling the brightness up to 100%, then > flipping black and white again. I ended up with some speckles (copy crap) but the text itself ended > up nice and dark. I tried just pulling the contrast and such but it pulled the background to a gray > color. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/27/2011 8:57 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > I don't know about paint.net, but with any decent image editor it is very easy to do. > > > > Even Irfanview allows you to easily manipulate the contrast, birghtness, saturation, gamma > > correction etc of an image. In fact that is probably the simplest tool you will find to do the > > job. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 28 08:06:39 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:06:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hard drives are starting to drop in price after the huge price jump from the floods. In-Reply-To: <4ED31FC1.2050809@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED31FC1.2050809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <005f01ccadd6$f37995a0$da6cc0e0$@net> John - were the SSD's also affected, or only the rotational drives ? From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 28 08:51:32 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 06:51:32 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> FYI http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ 2862?tag=nl.e101 But the important thing is - what does this mean for us as Access developers? Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com Skype: rocky.smolin From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 28 09:56:28 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:56:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ > 2862?tag=nl.e101 From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Nov 28 10:05:17 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 08:05:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind > ows-8/ > 2862?tag=nl.e101 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 28 10:15:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:15:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ED3B3B1.1060608@colbyconsulting.com> It certainly sounds like they are doing their homework on this one. It sure would be nice if they would build a VM that you could download and run under hyper-V. I have no interest in installing this native on any of my boxes. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > FYI > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ > 2862?tag=nl.e101 > > But the important thing is - what does this mean for us as Access > developers? > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > 858-259-4334 > www.bchacc.com > www.e-z-mrp.com > Skype: rocky.smolin > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 28 10:22:11 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:22:11 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Rocky and John et al Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ > 2862?tag=nl.e101 From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 28 10:28:39 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:28:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Rocky You probably will - as Windows 8 can run any modern Windows application - but to utilize the new top level tiled interface, you will need something like Visual Studio as Access in the view of MS is not a development environment, only an app with some fancy macro programming options (what is VBA?). /gustav >>> rockysmolin at bchacc.com 28-11-2011 17:05 >>> Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 10:55:31 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:55:31 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> Message-ID: Hi Rocky -- I suppose, you certainly will... -- Shamil 28 ?????? 2011, 20:06 ?? "Rocky Smolin" : > Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? > > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 > in a few years. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind > > ows-8/ > > 2862?tag=nl.e101 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 11:01:10 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:01:10 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) Thank you. -- Shamil 28 ?????? 2011, 20:19 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Rocky and John et al > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > /gustav > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ > > 2862?tag=nl.e101 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 28 11:27:14 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:27:14 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Shamil I've only played a little with it. Problem is that my machine at work still runs XP and that doesn't accept the Phone 7 developing environment. However, I _will_ get started on this ... and to get it going, next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia in programming these devices. Our phones are Samsung Omnia7 with WP7 which should be able to upgrade to 7.5 soon. /gustav >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:01 >>> Hi Gustav -- I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) Thank you. -- Shamil 28 ?????? 2011, 20:19 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Rocky and John et al > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > /gustav > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 11:40:59 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:40:59 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- > next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia > in programming these devices Good news! If you'll have opportunity to take brief notes on that course and share that notes here that would be very useful - just notes on what should be taken into consideration first of all when doing WP 7/7.5 development.... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I have just played a bit with my kid Samsung Galaxy Fit Android device (never had opportunity before to touch/play with Android devices or iPhones -I was very before several years in a row :)) - that Android technology is a very useful thing, no doubt - *now* this world is becoming really connected - would that help this World nations to understand better each other? - let's hope so... 28 ?????? 2011, 21:24 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > I've only played a little with it. Problem is that my machine at work still runs XP and that doesn't accept the Phone 7 developing environment. > However, I _will_ get started on this ... and to get it going, next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia in programming these devices. > > Our phones are Samsung Omnia7 with WP7 which should be able to upgrade to 7.5 soon. > > /gustav > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:01 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 28 ?????? 2011, 20:19 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Nov 28 11:57:23 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:57:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Shamil With the limited amount of time available I've decided to stay off Android and iPhone and concentrate on WP7. Yes I know - lots of those units out there - but you have to focus. As for connecting the World, I think we've seen a lot of this during the last half year of so - for example, how the news from North Africa have spread all over within the hour. Smart phones do play a role as they always are at hand (literally) /gustav >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:40 >>> Hi Gustav -- > next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia > in programming these devices Good news! If you'll have opportunity to take brief notes on that course and share that notes here that would be very useful - just notes on what should be taken into consideration first of all when doing WP 7/7.5 development.... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I have just played a bit with my kid Samsung Galaxy Fit Android device (never had opportunity before to touch/play with Android devices or iPhones -I was very before several years in a row :)) - that Android technology is a very useful thing, no doubt - *now* this world is becoming really connected - would that help this World nations to understand better each other? - let's hope so... 28 ****** 2011, 21:24 ** "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > I've only played a little with it. Problem is that my machine at work still runs XP and that doesn't accept the Phone 7 developing environment. > However, I _will_ get started on this ... and to get it going, next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia in programming these devices. > > Our phones are Samsung Omnia7 with WP7 which should be able to upgrade to 7.5 soon. > > /gustav > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:01 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 28 ****** 2011, 20:19 ** "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 12:37:42 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:37:42 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- Yes, I also currently do not plan to make Andorid or iPhone development - I have just played with my kid Android device to see what it does, and it does a lot of useful things - Google, Gmail, GoogleTalk, GoogleMaps, .... "at your fingertips" - just name the few ... Now, "fresh with that experience" I will see what WP 7.5 will have to propose me (as a customer) - currently Android device looks very attractive and the "Google vs. MS smart-phones technology battle" promise to be very interesting... Re: connected world - yes, it all starts now - lets' hope it will be driven by goodwill not by George Orwell's "oligarchical dictatorship of the Parties" one of which "United Russia" (still in rather embryonic state but anyway horrible) I'm "happy" to witness here in Russia nowadays... Thank you. -- Shamil 28 ?????? 2011, 21:54 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > With the limited amount of time available I've decided to stay off Android and iPhone and concentrate on WP7. Yes I know - lots of those units out there - but you have to focus. > > As for connecting the World, I think we've seen a lot of this during the last half year of so - for example, how the news from North Africa have spread all over within the hour. Smart phones do play a role as they always are at hand (literally) > > /gustav > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:40 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > > next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia > > in programming these devices > Good news! If you'll have opportunity to take brief notes on that course and share that notes here that would be very useful - just notes on what should be taken into consideration first of all when doing WP 7/7.5 development.... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > P.S. I have just played a bit with my kid Samsung Galaxy Fit Android device (never had opportunity before to touch/play with Android devices or iPhones -I was very before several years in a row :)) - that Android technology is a very useful thing, no doubt - *now* this world is becoming really connected - would that help this World nations to understand better each other? - let's hope so... > > 28 ****** 2011, 21:24 ** "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Shamil > > > > I've only played a little with it. Problem is that my machine at work still runs XP and that doesn't accept the Phone 7 developing environment. > > However, I _will_ get started on this ... and to get it going, next week I'm attending a two-day course at Nokia in programming these devices. > > > > Our phones are Samsung Omnia7 with WP7 which should be able to upgrade to 7.5 soon. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 28-11-2011 18:01 >>> > > Hi Gustav -- > > > > I'm planning to purchase Nokia Lumia 800 with WP 7.5 to be released here on 7th of December 2012 - that promise to be an exciting experience to use it and to make some application development for it - WP 7.5? Did you have any experience with such development? (And my kid has just got Samsung Galaxy Fit with Android - Wi-Fi etc. included - it's also an amazing technology device...) > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 28 ****** 2011, 20:19 ** "Gustav Brock" : > > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56 >>> > > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/2862?tag=nl.e101 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 28 15:45:06 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:45:06 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007>, <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com>, <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> Message-ID: <4ED400E2.16834.1231DFF1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> At this stage Windows 8 is two different OSs as far as developers are concerned: 1. Desktop Windows 2. Tablet Windows You will need to develop for one of the other. They use different UI paradigms They use different APIs They use different development tools. They will frequently run on different processors - dekstop native code will not be cross-compatible - so if you build a complied to run on an Intel desktop, it will not run on an ARM tablet Note that every one of the listed things is about tablets and "uers apps". I don't see business-centric, data intensive applications running on a metro interface or a tablet for a long time to come. With Windows 8 in a business environment, users will switch on, log in, click oon the Desktop Icon and then function the way they do now. They only part of Metro they will see on this work PC will be the logon screen. It may be the next great thing if developers and users go for it and it makes huge inroads in the mobile market. Or it may be the death knell for Microsoft as an OS selller - You could be looking at a massive shift to Android/Linux in the next few years if it doesn't go down well in the marketplace. -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 8:05, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 > in a few years. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind > > ows-8/ > > 2862?tag=nl.e101 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 28 16:10:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:10:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Rocky and John et al > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-windows-8/ >> 2862?tag=nl.e101 > > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 28 16:36:46 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:36:46 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED14@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> I would also ask if 'touch' is better. Period. Sure it has a kinda ubercoolness about it and for tablets it makes sense. Even so, I still love the buttons on my older iPod as I can skip tracks etc by feel only, never needing to take my eyes off the road (or whatever). Not so easy to do on a touch set up. So for a device where you are consuming media, touch is probably good, but for me, where I am making stuff the sheer speed and power of the mouse keyboard combo seems hard to beat. Maybe I am just an old monkey struggling to learn new tricks. One thing I will say about those smart phones that really sucks is their battery life. My 2004 Nokia 6600 (which is still in regular use today) is still powering on a single charge for up to 6 days. My wife's HTC needs charging every night. This is not a diss at HTC, all the smart phones are like that. One days use (even on standby) and you need to find a power outlet. Plurk. Batteries are still the weak link. Just my musings. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Rocky and John et al > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 in a few years. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-win >> dows-8/ >> 2862?tag=nl.e101 > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 28 16:40:57 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:40:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And retrofitting all of my systems is a > non-starter. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > > tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > > screens, and video boards. > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 28 17:01:45 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:01:45 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > > tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > > screens, and video boards. > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 28 17:22:13 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:22:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED400E2.16834.1231DFF1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> <4ED400E2.16834.1231DFF1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Not to be a nay-sayer, but my two cents: if Facebook is planning to release a phone and Blackberry is dying, it suggests to me that the overall market is already saturated and that WP7 is dead on arrival. Maybe Microsoft will be able to capture a few percent. It would seem to me that developing outside the Android and iPhone platforms is a big risk to take, unless you have a very niche market? - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-28, at 1:45 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > At this stage Windows 8 is two different OSs as far as developers are concerned: > > 1. Desktop Windows > 2. Tablet Windows > > You will need to develop for one of the other. > They use different UI paradigms > They use different APIs > They use different development tools. > > They will frequently run on different processors - dekstop native code will not be > cross-compatible - so if you build a complied to run on an Intel desktop, it will not run on an > ARM tablet > > Note that every one of the listed things is about tablets and "uers apps". > > I don't see business-centric, data intensive applications running on a metro interface or a > tablet for a long time to come. With Windows 8 in a business environment, users will switch > on, log in, click oon the Desktop Icon and then function the way they do now. They only part > of Metro they will see on this work PC will be the logon screen. > > It may be the next great thing if developers and users go for it and it makes huge inroads in > the mobile market. > > Or it may be the death knell for Microsoft as an OS selller - You could be looking at a > massive shift to Android/Linux in the next few years if it doesn't go down well in the > marketplace. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 28 Nov 2011 at 8:05, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >> >> For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 >> in a few years. >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind >>> ows-8/ >>> 2862?tag=nl.e101 >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 28 17:25:39 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:25:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <4ED406EF.9000809@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <697A31B1-2823-41F6-B3E7-A223DA808EC4@phulse.com> Not to mention, accidents with monitors falling off the back of the desk. :) - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-28, at 3:01 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? > > Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. > > -- > Stuart > > On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > >> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>> >>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>> >>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>> screens, and video boards. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Nov 28 18:25:39 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 04:25:39 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: , <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Darryl -- Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... Thank you. -- Shamil 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins : > Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? > > Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. > > -- > Stuart > > On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > > > Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > > retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > Hi Rocky and John et al > > > > > > Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > > > > > Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > > Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > > > tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > > > screens, and video boards. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 28 18:28:39 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:28:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that "other venture"... which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. His track record is not that good. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 28 19:08:45 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:08:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, Message-ID: <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the fine resolution of a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel precision with a fingertip? On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Darryl -- > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Nov 28 19:10:04 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:10:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> References: , <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> Message-ID: <4ED430EC.10726.12ED88F0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It's just as likely to be: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be the Windows killer". -- Stuart On 28 Nov 2011 at 19:28, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" > > Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. > It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that "other > venture"... > which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. > > On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! > Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. > His track record is not that good. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 28 19:49:01 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:49:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> References: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> Message-ID: <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> The only way that Microsoft can produce an iPad killer is if they manage to somehow completely bridge the gap between different types of users with an intuitive UI. I am pleasantly surprised to see how much my own non-technical father has taken to his iPad. He thinks its brilliant and now he's hooked using it all the time for Skype, emailing, viewing family photos and reading the news etc, but now and again he still asks me how something is done rather than experimenting himself. Not as much with a normal desktop computer and maybe this is really due to the conditioning that comes with decades of using Windows on the desktop, but even I can see there are still some rough edges on (even) the iPad that make it so it isn't always evident what button to press or what the result of your interaction will be. With Android, this is even worse. If Microsoft can somehow manage to create a UI interface where any type of user can feel completely natural using it, then Microsoft may in fact have an iPad killer. My feeling is that they won't be able to. As far as I am aware (and please correct me if I am wrong), they are only just making it more complicated by laying the Metro UI on top of a regular Windows desktop. And, if they can't, well, I cannot see how they can possibly be any sort of "something"-killer, unless they compete for the sub-$200 market undercutting the Kindle Fire (which unlikely, given hardware requirements for Windows). I'm not sure this is what regular consumers want and that this is just more or less the same as Microsofts previously failed tablet offerings prior to the iPad. We shall see how things play out. - Hans On 2011-11-28, at 4:28 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" > > Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. > It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that "other > venture"... > which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. > > On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! > Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. > His track record is not that good. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon Nov 28 20:02:30 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 02:02:30 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> References: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yeah, I see them as two totally different markets. Many folks love and buy apple products as they don't have to worry about tweaking anything to make things function. This comes at a cost of course (both money and function), but for many consumers they either don't know about the costs or more likely care. I guess it is part of a product maturing in some ways. Back in the 60's when you purchased a car it was quite normal for you to do a lot of the maintenance yourself. The car would even come with a full workshop manual and often some basic tool kits as well. Compare that to these days were most folks call roadside assist to change a tyre and would never look under the bonnet - ever. I see the iThings a bit like that. Most folks don't care about the loss of flexibility or even creating stuff on the PC. They just want to access media, browse the web and get info via apps etc. And for the that the iPad is brilliant. Andriod is more flexible, but people don't want choices, they want something that works without any intervention from them. ... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 12:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 The only way that Microsoft can produce an iPad killer is if they manage to somehow completely bridge the gap between different types of users with an intuitive UI. I am pleasantly surprised to see how much my own non-technical father has taken to his iPad. He thinks its brilliant and now he's hooked using it all the time for Skype, emailing, viewing family photos and reading the news etc, but now and again he still asks me how something is done rather than experimenting himself. Not as much with a normal desktop computer and maybe this is really due to the conditioning that comes with decades of using Windows on the desktop, but even I can see there are still some rough edges on (even) the iPad that make it so it isn't always evident what button to press or what the result of your interaction will be. With Android, this is even worse. If Microsoft can somehow manage to create a UI interface where any type of user can feel completely natural using it, then Microsoft may in fact have an iPad killer. My feeling is that they won't be able to. As far as I am aware (and please correct me if I am wrong), they are only just making it more complicated by laying the Metro UI on top of a regular Windows desktop. And, if they can't, well, I cannot see how they can possibly be any sort of "something"-killer, unless they compete for the sub-$200 market undercutting the Kindle Fire (which unlikely, given hardware requirements for Windows). I'm not sure this is what regular consumers want and that this is just more or less the same as Microsofts previously failed tablet offerings prior to the iPad. We shall see how things play out. - Hans On 2011-11-28, at 4:28 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" > > Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. > It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that > "other venture"... > which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. > > On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! > Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. > His track record is not that good. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Nov 28 21:12:33 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:12:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <003c01ccae44$bd6258d0$38270a70$@net> Then again, that's the way it's ALWAYS BEEN. Users can't tell you how to build a great app or interface.... They just know it when they see it....and use it. No reason Balmer & Company can't pull off an Ipad killer. No reason at all except for laziness or stupidity. In fact, if I were Balmer, I'd have a hundred posters printed with a picture of an Ipad being smashed with a sledgehammer that had a Windows 8 logo on it. Put em in all of the development rooms. Finally, I've been impressed with Samsung....they've got good quality devices at a fair price. Heck, a merger of MSFT and Samsung would give Apple the "willies". >.Most folks don't care about the loss of > flexibility or even creating stuff on the PC. They just want to access > media, browse the web and get info via apps etc. And for the that the > iPad is brilliant. Andriod is more flexible, but people don't want > choices, they want something that works without any intervention from > them. From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Nov 28 21:24:16 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:24:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <003901ccae2d$d7e1c2c0$87a54840$@net> <357D1684-4317-40B9-905F-EDC5643DC800@phulse.com> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DEE77@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Perhaps you are onto something, Darryl. And perhaps Microsoft is merely trying to target corporate in the hopes they will turn away from iPads and Android tablets in favour of the familiar. But it's not very adventuresome of them, you have to admit. - Hans On 2011-11-28, at 6:02 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > Yeah, I see them as two totally different markets. Many folks love and buy apple products as they don't have to worry about tweaking anything to make things function. This comes at a cost of course (both money and function), but for many consumers they either don't know about the costs or more likely care. > > I guess it is part of a product maturing in some ways. Back in the 60's when you purchased a car it was quite normal for you to do a lot of the maintenance yourself. The car would even come with a full workshop manual and often some basic tool kits as well. > > Compare that to these days were most folks call roadside assist to change a tyre and would never look under the bonnet - ever. I see the iThings a bit like that. Most folks don't care about the loss of flexibility or even creating stuff on the PC. They just want to access media, browse the web and get info via apps etc. And for the that the iPad is brilliant. Andriod is more flexible, but people don't want choices, they want something that works without any intervention from them. > > ... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 12:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > The only way that Microsoft can produce an iPad killer is if they manage to somehow completely bridge the gap between different types of users with an intuitive UI. I am pleasantly surprised to see how much my own non-technical father has taken to his iPad. He thinks its brilliant and now he's hooked using it all the time for Skype, emailing, viewing family photos and reading the news etc, but now and again he still asks me how something is done rather than experimenting himself. Not as much with a normal desktop computer and maybe this is really due to the conditioning that comes with decades of using Windows on the desktop, but even I can see there are still some rough edges on (even) the iPad that make it so it isn't always evident what button to press or what the result of your interaction will be. > > With Android, this is even worse. > > If Microsoft can somehow manage to create a UI interface where any type of user can feel completely natural using it, then Microsoft may in fact have an iPad killer. My feeling is that they won't be able to. As far as I am aware (and please correct me if I am wrong), they are only just making it more complicated by laying the Metro UI on top of a regular Windows desktop. And, if they can't, well, I cannot see how they can possibly be any sort of "something"-killer, unless they compete for the sub-$200 market undercutting the Kindle Fire (which unlikely, given hardware requirements for Windows). > > I'm not sure this is what regular consumers want and that this is just more or less the same as Microsofts previously failed tablet offerings prior to the iPad. > > We shall see how things play out. > > - Hans > > > > > On 2011-11-28, at 4:28 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> Re: "Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer" >> >> Boy, I've been waiting for that statement for YEARS. >> It might even force me to stay back in technology vs. doing that >> "other venture"... >> which of course is somewhat dark and clandestine. >> >> On the other hand, maybe I'll do both ! >> Now the biggie: Can Balmer and Company "do things right" here. >> His track record is not that good. >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Nov 28 21:41:44 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:41:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <4ED40DF9.10611.126504B1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid has wonderful voice recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming I pretty much type 99% the same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my computer is something that is close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Darryl -- > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins: >> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) >> >> Cheers >> Darryl. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >> >> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? >> >> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. >> >> -- >> Stuart >> >> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >> >>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>> >>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>> >>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>>> screens, and video boards. >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Nov 29 01:22:40 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:22:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <56A062DCE9DF4AA081BCBE71F0217ACB@HAL9007> <4ED3AF2C.80405@colbyconsulting.com> <3FA7C3FB7BB34B9789A4A9AAB2C6E513@HAL9007> <4ED400E2.16834.1231DFF1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <609ADEFEF4F042F892610C05988FEE0A@creativesystemdesigns.com> I would concur...I would consider myself a Windows fan but I have to also be practical. If Windows is widely and heartily adopted then it will get more of my attention...but at this moment, odds do not look good. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 3:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Not to be a nay-sayer, but my two cents: if Facebook is planning to release a phone and Blackberry is dying, it suggests to me that the overall market is already saturated and that WP7 is dead on arrival. Maybe Microsoft will be able to capture a few percent. It would seem to me that developing outside the Android and iPhone platforms is a big risk to take, unless you have a very niche market? - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-28, at 1:45 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > At this stage Windows 8 is two different OSs as far as developers are concerned: > > 1. Desktop Windows > 2. Tablet Windows > > You will need to develop for one of the other. > They use different UI paradigms > They use different APIs > They use different development tools. > > They will frequently run on different processors - dekstop native code will not be > cross-compatible - so if you build a complied to run on an Intel desktop, it will not run on an > ARM tablet > > Note that every one of the listed things is about tablets and "uers apps". > > I don't see business-centric, data intensive applications running on a metro interface or a > tablet for a long time to come. With Windows 8 in a business environment, users will switch > on, log in, click oon the Desktop Icon and then function the way they do now. They only part > of Metro they will see on this work PC will be the logon screen. > > It may be the next great thing if developers and users go for it and it makes huge inroads in > the mobile market. > > Or it may be the death knell for Microsoft as an OS selller - You could be looking at a > massive shift to Android/Linux in the next few years if it doesn't go down well in the > marketplace. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 28 Nov 2011 at 8:05, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> Will we be able to deploy an access app on a tablet? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:56 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >> >> For one thing it means that I have to consider actually moving to Windows8 >> in a few years. >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/28/2011 9:51 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-things-to-love-about-wind >>> ows-8/ >>> 2862?tag=nl.e101 >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Nov 29 01:26:20 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:26:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <6F72D2FEBC464D60B6B7FFF2D2DDACE5@creativesystemdesigns.com> I think that what happens when you don't do your backups and the system crashes and then everything you lost is a virtual document. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 5:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the fine resolution of a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel precision with a fingertip? On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Darryl -- > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Nov 29 02:27:54 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:27:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 Message-ID: Hi Mark That's exactly what I see when people use the Windows Phone - they understand it right away because of the simplicity and the superior graphic design - including a perfect font and beautiful ring tones made by musicians (my favourite is 19 Bell which is a pure joy to listen to). MSFT has been lazy and stupid at many occasions through the years but the Metro project is the opposite; a master-piece in visual design and use, only possible by hard work from a team of highly skilled people with 100% backup from the management. This is why I say "don't ever underestimate MSFT". Just watch the videos about the Metro design (links published here several times). It takes some courage to dismount all the useless 3D-stuff - which have gone too far - and return to 2D. /gustav >>> marksimms at verizon.net 29-11-2011 04:12 >>> Then again, that's the way it's ALWAYS BEEN. Users can't tell you how to build a great app or interface.... They just know it when they see it....and use it. No reason Balmer & Company can't pull off an Ipad killer. No reason at all except for laziness or stupidity. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 29 03:51:42 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:51:42 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- > This is why I say "don't ever underestimate MSFT". Yes: http://www.insearchofstupidity.com/ -- Shamil 29 ?????? 2011, 12:25 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Mark > > That's exactly what I see when people use the Windows Phone - they understand it right away because of the simplicity and the superior graphic design - including a perfect font and beautiful ring tones made by musicians (my favourite is 19 Bell which is a pure joy to listen to). > > MSFT has been lazy and stupid at many occasions through the years but the Metro project is the opposite; a master-piece in visual design and use, only possible by hard work from a team of highly skilled people with 100% backup from the management. This is why I say "don't ever underestimate MSFT". Just watch the videos about the Metro design (links published here several times). It takes some courage to dismount all the useless 3D-stuff - which have gone too far - and return to 2D. > > /gustav > > >>> marksimms at verizon.net 29-11-2011 04:12 >>> > Then again, that's the way it's ALWAYS BEEN. Users can't tell you how to > build a great app or interface.... > They just know it when they see it....and use it. > No reason Balmer & Company can't pull off an Ipad killer. > No reason at all except for laziness or stupidity. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 29 03:55:10 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:55:10 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John -- Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how I will be able to do that effectively :) -- Shamil 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : > Shamil, > > Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid has wonderful voice > recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming I pretty much type 99% the > same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my computer is something that is > close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Darryl -- > > > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins: > >> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) > >> > >> Cheers > >> Darryl. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > >> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > >> > >> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your fingertips? > >> > >> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a tough time. > >> > >> -- > >> Stuart > >> > >> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > >> > >>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > >>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > >>> > >>> John W. Colby > >>> Colby Consulting > >>> > >>> Reality is what refuses to go away > >>> when you do not believe in it > >>> > >>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > >>>> Hi Rocky and John et al > >>>> > >>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > >>>> > >>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > >>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > >>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > >>>> screens, and video boards. > >>>> > >>>> /gustav > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Nov 29 03:58:35 2011 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:58:35 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart -- I mainly mean "shuffling" virtual documents by hands, getting/putting them into "folders" etc. Pixel precision cursor location with fingertip(s) will be done by using special virtual "pointing" assistants... Thank you. -- Shamil 29 ?????? 2011, 05:10 ?? "Stuart McLachlan" : > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the fine resolution of > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel precision with a > fingertip? > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Darryl -- > > > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Nov 29 07:52:47 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:52:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> Stuart, I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point with touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very powerful thing. Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is buttons. Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where consumer electronics is going. When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on a keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with your finger). Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. I need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. And not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard built into the desktop. As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you make them larger then the text they display; why is that? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the fine resolution of a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel precision with a fingertip? On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Darryl -- > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D communication with them... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Nov 29 08:41:23 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:41:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sub Query Assistance Requested Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F705B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I have the following query that works correctly returning a result of 8 SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count] FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))); I would also like to return the field EngArea from the table [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] also. Would that be possible and if so how? My attempts so far have failed. Result should be something like this Active Flowing Count EngArea 3 1 1 2 4 3 Thanks. Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 10:01:02 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:01:02 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et al!! Charlotte Foust On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi John -- > > Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how > I will be able to do that effectively :) > > -- Shamil > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : > > Shamil, > > > > Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid > has wonderful voice > > recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming > I pretty much type 99% the > > same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my > computer is something that is > > close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Darryl -- > > > > > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > > > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > > > > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< > darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: > > >> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use > these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large > monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving > my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things > happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily > angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the > issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More > cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate > finger prints on my screens!! ;) > > >> > > >> Cheers > > >> Darryl. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > >> > > >> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a > business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database > application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your > fingertips? > > >> > > >> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a > tough time. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Stuart > > >> > > >> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > > >> > > >>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > > >>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > > >>> > > >>> John W. Colby > > >>> Colby Consulting > > >>> > > >>> Reality is what refuses to go away > > >>> when you do not believe in it > > >>> > > >>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > >>>> Hi Rocky and John et al > > >>>> > > >>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, > Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > >>>> > > >>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > >>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through > > >>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table > > >>>> screens, and video boards. > > >>>> > > >>>> /gustav > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >> > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Nov 29 10:25:00 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:25:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <77E871AEBCC748BE817DF91D22CCC36A@HAL9007> Phonetic Punctuation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF4qii8S3gw Classic R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 8:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et al!! Charlotte Foust On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi John -- > > Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine > how I will be able to do that effectively :) > > -- Shamil > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : > > Shamil, > > > > Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My > > Droid > has wonderful voice > > recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am > > programming > I pretty much type 99% the > > same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to > > my > computer is something that is > > close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Darryl -- > > > > > > Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > > > multi-touch > displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > > > The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally > > > mounted > displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > > > > > > The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > > > > 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< > darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: > > >> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices > > >> use > these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 > large monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to > be waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to > make things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is > flatter or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that > - and then you have the issue of light reflection from all the ceiling > lights blah blah. More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell > I reckon. Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) > > >> > > >> Cheers > > >> Darryl. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM > > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > >> > > >> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in > > >> a > business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database > application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at > your fingertips? > > >> > > >> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a > tough time. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Stuart > > >> > > >> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: > > >> > > >>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And > > >>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. > > >>> > > >>> John W. Colby > > >>> Colby Consulting > > >>> > > >>> Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it > > >>> > > >>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > >>>> Hi Rocky and John et al > > >>>> > > >>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, > Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. > > >>>> > > >>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. > > >>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone > > >>>> through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV > > >>>> monitors, table screens, and video boards. > > >>>> > > >>>> /gustav > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >> > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Nov 29 13:47:21 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:47:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> Haha I remember that one. A true classic. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-29, at 8:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a > phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer > spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et > al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving >> my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things >> happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily >> angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More >> cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate >> finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database >> application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>>>>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>>>>>> screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 13:52:35 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:52:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Sub Query Assistance Requested In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F705B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F705B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: Chester, Try SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count],EngArea FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID, EngArea FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))) Group by EngArea; On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Kaup, Chester < Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com> wrote: > I have the following query that works correctly returning a result of 8 > > SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count] > FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID > FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A > WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))); > > I would also like to return the field EngArea from the table > [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] also. Would that be possible and if so > how? My attempts so far have failed. > > Result should be something like this > Active Flowing Count EngArea > 3 1 > 1 2 > 4 3 > > Thanks. > > Chester Kaup > Engineering Technician > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > Office (432) 688-3797 > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Nov 29 14:36:38 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:36:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians In-Reply-To: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> Message-ID: <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> And he made you laugh without using a single word of profanity, use of anything off-topic, and he didn't degrade or disrespect any member of the audience. Where have all the great comedians gone? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 02:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Haha I remember that one. A true classic. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-29, at 8:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a > phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer > spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et > al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving >> my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things >> happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily >> angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More >> cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate >> finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database >> application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>>>>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>>>>>> screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Nov 29 16:03:27 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:03:27 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> References: , <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com>, <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> Message-ID: <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic http://goo.gl/KtZIE From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Nov 29 16:14:35 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:14:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sub Query Assistance Requested In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F705B@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C198B1F722C@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Thanks. Perfect. That got it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack drawbridge Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 1:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Sub Query Assistance Requested Chester, Try SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count],EngArea FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID, EngArea FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))) Group by EngArea; On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Kaup, Chester < Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com> wrote: > I have the following query that works correctly returning a result of 8 > > SELECT Count(A.PID) AS [Active Flowing Count] > FROM (SELECT DISTINCT A.PID > FROM [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] AS A > WHERE(A.Status In ("FL","FM","FH"))); > > I would also like to return the field EngArea from the table > [tbl Statuses During Prior Month] also. Would that be possible and if so > how? My attempts so far have failed. > > Result should be something like this > Active Flowing Count EngArea > 3 1 > 1 2 > 4 3 > > Thanks. > > Chester Kaup > Engineering Technician > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > Office (432) 688-3797 > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Tue Nov 29 16:30:25 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:30:25 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians In-Reply-To: <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> Message-ID: <003701ccaee6$7eee7690$7ccb63b0$@activebilling.com.au> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF4qii8S3gw very clever -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, 30 November 2011 7:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians And he made you laugh without using a single word of profanity, use of anything off-topic, and he didn't degrade or disrespect any member of the audience. Where have all the great comedians gone? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 02:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Haha I remember that one. A true classic. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-29, at 8:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had > a phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a > programmer spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, > etc., for C# et al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently >> imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My >>> Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am >>> programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to >>> my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on >>>> multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating >> with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices >>>>> use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be >> waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make >> things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter >> or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and >> then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. >> More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. >> Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or >> database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard >> and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone >>>>>>> through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV >>>>>>> monitors, table screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Nov 29 17:21:37 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:21:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com>, <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> PowerBasic is quite a powerful package. It's incredibly important to see that given the other dev environments...dot-net, java, Ruby, php, etc.... It has never gained "traction". From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Nov 29 18:59:27 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:59:27 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians In-Reply-To: <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com><72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> Message-ID: <8D0568C0EFD64420B49534A890FB856C@HAL9007> Nowhere. They're all on You Tube. :) R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT: comedians And he made you laugh without using a single word of profanity, use of anything off-topic, and he didn't degrade or disrespect any member of the audience. Where have all the great comedians gone? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 02:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Haha I remember that one. A true classic. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2011-11-29, at 8:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had > a phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a > programmer spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, > etc., for C# et al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently >> imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby : >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My >>> Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am >>> programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to >>> my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on >>>> multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of communicating >> with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices >>>>> use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be >> waving my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make >> things happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter >> or heavily angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and >> then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. >> More cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. >> Besides, I hate finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or >> database application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard >> and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone >>>>>>> through tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV >>>>>>> monitors, table screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 06:03:43 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:03:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <6F72D2FEBC464D60B6B7FFF2D2DDACE5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6F72D2FEBC464D60B6B7FFF2D2DDACE5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED61B9F.1070106@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL. Best whacky definition I have seen in ages. Virtual documents: What happens when the system dies and you have no backups John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 2:26 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I think that what happens when you don't do your backups and the system > crashes and then everything you lost is a virtual document. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 5:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > fine resolution of > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > precision with a > fingertip? > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Darryl -- >> >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >> >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 06:29:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:29:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> Message-ID: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you really need that? No. One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point with > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very powerful > thing. > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is buttons. > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > consumer electronics is going. > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on a > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with your > finger). > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. I > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. And > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > keyboard on a touch screen. > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > built into the desktop. > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you make > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > fine resolution of > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > precision with a > fingertip? > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Darryl -- >> >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >> >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 06:32:56 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:32:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <4ED45478.3060202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED62278.3040000@colbyconsulting.com> You laugh but this is already happening. People with disabilities who cannot speak normally can train their computers to recognize whatever their "equivalent" sound may be to mean a word or phrase. Thus you could indeed make up your own sound for a curly bracket or open paren or whatever. Remember the star treck movie where scotty picks up the mouse and tries to speak into it? Ignoring for a moment why he would even have a concept of a microphone that you had to pick up and hold to your face to speak into... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 11:01 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > "Voice coding" reminds me of the late comedian, Victor Borge, who had a > phonetic punctuation routine that was hilarious. I envision a programmer > spouting odd noises to indicate braces and curly brackets, etc., for C# et > al!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamilwrote: > >> Hi John -- >> >> Yes, "voice coding" would be useful although I can't currently imagine how >> I will be able to do that effectively :) >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> 29 ?????? 2011, 07:43 ?? jwcolby: >>> Shamil, >>> >>> Actually you touched on the next thing I think which is voice. My Droid >> has wonderful voice >>> recognition, *when* it is context sensitive. IOW when I am programming >> I pretty much type 99% the >>> same stuff - keywords, syntax etc over and over. Dictating code to my >> computer is something that is >>> close I believe and which I will gladly use over typing. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> Colby Consulting >>> >>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>> when you do not believe in it >>> >>> On 11/28/2011 7:25 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >> communication with them... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> 29 ?????? 2011, 03:03 ?? Darryl Collins< >> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au>: >>>>> Yes! That is exactly my point. The current set up most offices use >> these days is actually pretty good with ergonomics as well. I have 2 large >> monitors that cover a fair bit of surface area, I don't want to be waving >> my damn hands around like an idiot all day long trying to make things >> happen. Touch really only works when the monitor is flatter or heavily >> angled. Can't see too many places paying for that - and then you have the >> issue of light reflection from all the ceiling lights blah blah. More >> cost, less productivity - that is a hard sell I reckon. Besides, I hate >> finger prints on my screens!! ;) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Darryl. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:41 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>>>> >>>>> In reality, how useful is a touch screen when you are working in a >> business application such as a word processor, spreadsheet or database >> application and you are sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse at your >> fingertips? >>>>> >>>>> Unless MS can continue to sell to that market, they are in for a >> tough time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stuart >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Nov 2011 at 17:10, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes but touch isn't available on my current monitors. And >>>>>> retrofitting all of my systems is a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> Colby Consulting >>>>>> >>>>>> Reality is what refuses to go away >>>>>> when you do not believe in it >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/2011 11:22 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rocky and John et al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given my experience with Windows Phone 7 and the Metro design, >> Windows 8 on a tablet will be an iPad killer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Windows 8 and touch screens of any kind is the next step forward. >>>>>>> Think about it - the same basic GUI behaviour from a phone through >>>>>>> tablets, game consoles (Xbox), normal monitors to TV monitors, table >>>>>>> screens, and video boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /gustav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-11-2011 16:56>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 06:43:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:43:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com>, <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) You do? I never realized! ;) John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > > Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > > http://goo.gl/KtZIE > > From steve at goodhall.info Wed Nov 30 07:50:44 2011 From: steve at goodhall.info (Steve Goodhall) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:50:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a matter of scaling. Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP -----Original message----- From: jwcolby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you really need that? No. One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point with > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very powerful > thing. > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is buttons. > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > consumer electronics is going. > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on a > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with your > finger). > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. I > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. And > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > keyboard on a touch screen. > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > built into the desktop. > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you make > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > fine resolution of > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > precision with a > fingertip? > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Darryl -- >> >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >> >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > communication with them... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 08:07:29 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:07:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, Message-ID: <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another > keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > > keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Nov 30 09:12:17 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:12:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another > keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > > keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Nov 30 09:25:20 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:25:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> References: , <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com>, <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> Message-ID: <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. Web Development ? Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or Desktop development. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 09:55:20 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:55:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> Message-ID: I use align a lot by rubber banding controls and align horizontal, vertical, equal spacing, etc. That's because there's no magnify in design view which I really wish there was. Would make things so much easier. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From steve at goodhall.info Wed Nov 30 10:16:26 2011 From: steve at goodhall.info (Steve Goodhall) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:16:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> Message-ID: <396fba1e-c77d-484e-b69b-3436da4be89b@blur> Wouldn't it be easier just to set the Left, Top, Width and Height properties either manually or programmatically? I do this all the time in other languages. It's generally what .NET does with your designer settings anyway. Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP -----Original message----- From: Rocky Smolin To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 15:56:59 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 I use align a lot by rubber banding controls and align horizontal, vertical, equal spacing, etc. That's because there's no magnify in design view which I really wish there was. Would make things so much easier. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 10:26:21 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:26:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <396fba1e-c77d-484e-b69b-3436da4be89b@blur> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <396fba1e-c77d-484e-b69b-3436da4be89b@blur> Message-ID: Oh, I do that a lot as well. If I've put half a dozen buttons on a form or a bunch of text boxes and want to make them all the same width, I pick the one I like best, copy its width property, rubber band the rest and past. I use keyboard shortcuts for aligning though and it goes real fast. Alt-OAT aligns to top. Alt-OZE spaces equally horizontally, etc. I'm a mouseophobe. The less I use it the happier I am. It slows things down. And I use alt-Tab to toggle between design view and code. The one thing I'd like is a shortcut that would move the focus from the property sheet back to the form or report being designed. When I click on an event to create or edit the event module, then alt-Tab back to the form or report, the property sheet still has the focus. I have to click outside the property sheet - means using the mouse. A keyboard shortcut to do that would be nice. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.bchacc.com www.e-z-mrp.com Skype: rocky.smolin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Goodhall Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Wouldn't it be easier just to set the Left, Top, Width and Height properties either manually or programmatically? I do this all the time in other languages. It's generally what .NET does with your designer settings anyway. Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP -----Original message----- From: Rocky Smolin To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 15:56:59 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 I use align a lot by rubber banding controls and align horizontal, vertical, equal spacing, etc. That's because there's no magnify in design view which I really wish there was. Would make things so much easier. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 10:38:22 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:38:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> Message-ID: <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another > keyboard to get at the numbers or special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function > > displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really > > important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual > > keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch > >> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's > >> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with > >> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 11:08:47 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:08:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. Doug On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) >> >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic >> >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE >> >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 11:12:43 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:12:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> Message-ID: <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Mark: Some people believe that Cloud development will do exact that. Steve Jobs went so far as to announce, "The PC is dead." The understanding is that there will be no need for desktop type computers as where ever you go all you data and work capability will travel with you. All you will need is a dumb terminal like an iPad and you can go anywhere. Within major centers this scenario can work but once into the rural areas the desktop is still king and will be for the foreseeable future. This may very well be why Windows 8 was created with two UIs. One, when you are downtown and one when you are further out in the community. The Cloud is great as a remote hard drive, development platform and application host and coupled with full communication to the internet it is a potent back-end. For me the whole Cloud scenario is great but if I drive 20 miles, out of town, an iPad is almost useless, as internet communication and cell phone coverage is spotty at best and I had better have my laptop ready if I want to work with my office or programming applications...even if I am developing for the Cloud or Smartphones. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. Web Development ? Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or Desktop development. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 11:27:55 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:27:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com><4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> Sometimes the grid it too coarse to get the controls exactly where I want them. But again I use the keyboard - ctrl with an arrow nudges the control - and holding it down moves it continuously. I use that a lot. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Nov 30 11:34:11 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:34:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Aligning Controls (was: Windows 8) Message-ID: <002301ccaf86$460653c0$d212fb40$@comcast.net> I made a custom toolbar with the four alignment buttons. Very handy. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 11:35:44 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:35:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Don't you have swype available, John? It's in the Android OS, and I couldn't live without it. When I have to work with the virtual keyboard on my Nook ereader, I get very frustrated having to tap each letter separately! Charlotte Foust On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:29 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do > you really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or special > characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat fingertip to get > at a specific character to back space over... > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > >> Stuart, >> >> I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point >> with >> touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very >> powerful >> thing. >> >> Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. >> Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. >> >> I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's >> fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is >> buttons. >> Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, >> hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it >> will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. >> >> Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. >> Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function >> displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their >> function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where >> consumer electronics is going. >> >> When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on >> a >> keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with >> your >> finger). >> >> Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. >> I >> need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this >> emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. >> And >> not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really >> important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual >> keyboard on a touch screen. >> >> Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard >> built into the desktop. >> >> As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you >> really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only >> worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not >> getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you >> make >> them larger then the text they display; why is that? >> >> Jim. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com] >> On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM >> >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >> >> What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. >> >> If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the >> fine resolution of >> a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel >> precision with a >> fingertip? >> >> >> On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >> Darryl -- >>> >>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >>> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >>> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >>> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >>> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>> >>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >>> >> communication with them... >> >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 11:36:56 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:36:56 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Before I started developing Android apps in Eclipse, I was using appInventor, an online web development IDE. I hated it at first, the fact that you needed to be online to develop. I really miss it now that I am developing in Eclipse. I have to remember to back up the project to thumb drive to transport between home, work and school. Nothing worse than getting to your destination and realizing that the thumb drive is still plugged into the computer at home. Not to mention import/reference issues between locations. It is nice just to log into a site and have your project ready to continue where you left off. I love how Apple says the PC is dead, but you cannot compile an iOS app without a MAC laptop running Intel chipset. You can't compile on a Win PC, iPad or iPhone. Maybe that is about to change, God, I hope so. D On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Mark: > > Some people believe that Cloud development will do exact that. Steve Jobs > went so far as to announce, "The PC is dead." > > The understanding is that there will be no need for desktop type computers > as where ever you go all you data and work capability will travel with you. > All you will need is a dumb terminal like an iPad and you can go anywhere. > > Within major centers this scenario can work but once into the rural areas > the desktop is still king and will be for the foreseeable future. This may > very well be why Windows 8 was created with two UIs. One, when you are > downtown and one when you are further out in the community. > > The Cloud is great as a remote hard drive, development platform and > application host and coupled with full communication to the internet it is > a > potent back-end. > > For me the whole Cloud scenario is great but if I drive 20 miles, out of > town, an iPad is almost useless, as internet communication and cell phone > coverage is spotty at best and I had better have my laptop ready if I want > to work with my office or programming applications...even if I am > developing > for the Cloud or Smartphones. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:25 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development > > Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. > Web Development ? > Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. > > It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or > Desktop development. > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 11:38:18 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:38:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. Many of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it really shows. Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of their potential business because of it. A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not an artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and additional sales you get because of it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. Doug On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) >> >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic >> >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE >> >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 11:39:59 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:39:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> Message-ID: <51522143F8C84724A5D992643E75E913@creativesystemdesigns.com> Same here but sometimes I find myself turning my head horizontal to make sure everything is lined up. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Sometimes the grid it too coarse to get the controls exactly where I want them. But again I use the keyboard - ctrl with an arrow nudges the control - and holding it down moves it continuously. I use that a lot. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 12:28:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:28:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> <1040C6C175904E1F8EEAF16E88272C90@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED675C4.6030601@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, and then there is data and bandwidth limits. My work is on data where I select records with gigabytes of data, select a few million, get those into csv files and email or ftp to a site. I move hundreds of gigs of data back and forth doing this just for a single order. So for the house hold pc perhaps, for companies, it seems unlikely. Someday of course (50 years from now?) all the data will just reside in the cloud, will be manipulated on systems in the cloud, and will be delivered to its destination in the cloud. But that won't happen until things get much more reliable and everyone understands how to do this "cloud thing". I get DVDs for crying out loud, with zip files, filled with data which I have to extract and get into the format I can use. I got 100 gigs of raw data in fixed width format on a dozen DVDs, and I have to pull that into SQL Server, strip out the padding spaces and get into real tables. And of course, relative to "Star Trek" kinds of systems we are still in the horse and buggy days. We have come a very long way in just the last 20 years in terms of infrastructure. Remember in 1990 when we were dialing up servers on modems and praying for 12 kbit connections? In 1999 (when I lived in Mexico) I was dialing into servers up in the US to do remote desktop (VNC). But as Jim says, "out in the country"... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/30/2011 12:12 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Mark: > > Some people believe that Cloud development will do exact that. Steve Jobs > went so far as to announce, "The PC is dead." > > The understanding is that there will be no need for desktop type computers > as where ever you go all you data and work capability will travel with you. > All you will need is a dumb terminal like an iPad and you can go anywhere. > > Within major centers this scenario can work but once into the rural areas > the desktop is still king and will be for the foreseeable future. This may > very well be why Windows 8 was created with two UIs. One, when you are > downtown and one when you are further out in the community. > > The Cloud is great as a remote hard drive, development platform and > application host and coupled with full communication to the internet it is a > potent back-end. > > For me the whole Cloud scenario is great but if I drive 20 miles, out of > town, an iPad is almost useless, as internet communication and cell phone > coverage is spotty at best and I had better have my laptop ready if I want > to work with my office or programming applications...even if I am developing > for the Cloud or Smartphones. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:25 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development > > Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. > Web Development ? > Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. > > It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or > Desktop development. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Nov 30 12:30:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:30:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DED67@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <4ED4309D.17582.12EC5553@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5460ECD86EF04433BF32D8C5C52EA7B3@XPS> <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4ED67637.9020309@colbyconsulting.com> Apparently it is available but... John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 11/30/2011 12:35 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Don't you have swype available, John? It's in the Android OS, and I > couldn't live without it. When I have to work with the virtual keyboard on > my Nook ereader, I get very frustrated having to tap each letter separately! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:29 AM, jwcolbywrote: > >>> As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do >> you really need that? No. >> >> One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, >> constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or special >> characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat fingertip to get >> at a specific character to back space over... >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> >> Reality is what refuses to go away >> when you do not believe in it >> >> On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> >>> Stuart, >>> >>> I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main point >>> with >>> touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very >>> powerful >>> thing. >>> >>> Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. >>> Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. >>> >>> I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's >>> fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is >>> buttons. >>> Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, >>> hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't doubt it >>> will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. >>> >>> Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. >>> Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and multi-function >>> displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their >>> function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where >>> consumer electronics is going. >>> >>> When you come right down to it, what's the difference between typing on >>> a >>> keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something with >>> your >>> finger). >>> >>> Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. >>> I >>> need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this >>> emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. >>> And >>> not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is really >>> important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use a virtual >>> keyboard on a touch screen. >>> >>> Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard >>> built into the desktop. >>> >>> As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you >>> really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only >>> worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be and not >>> getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet you >>> make >>> them larger then the text they display; why is that? >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces@**databaseadvisors.com] >>> On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >>> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM >>> >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 >>> >>> What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. >>> >>> If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard and the >>> fine resolution of >>> a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel >>> precision with a >>> fingertip? >>> >>> >>> On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>> >>> Darryl -- >>>> >>>> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on multi-touch >>>> displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... >>>> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted >>>> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - that's >>>> another technological revolution of the ways of communicating with >>>> computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... >>>> >>>> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D >>>> >>> communication with them... >>> >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd >> >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >> >> >> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 13:18:40 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:18:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4ED62504.4060303@colbyconsulting.com> <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: I seriously agree with that. Having been down that road and suffered its consequences, I have learned the lesson. I can write code; I can't sell ad-space; I have a web-site idea but the whole point is to find sponsors and I'm not good at that part of the equation. Nevertheless, I'm going to try. Tips and trickers for shoppers and programmers and various other alienated persons clickers and quickers and something else that rhymes with the New York Times A. From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Nov 30 13:55:17 2011 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:55:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> References: <72007FFD-9FE3-4F5F-B714-20E41BF5896C@phulse.com> <19C081089DA0440CA35A797372F39676@XPS> <4ED556AF.18111.176913B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net> <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> Message-ID: <8A3D8B03-6354-428D-9F44-662089B7DEFF@phulse.com> It's basically the same thing with different tools and a different platform, except concepts such as storage and such are now abstracted into another service layer. The same for the CPU and database, etc. Companies are basically just taking on the overwhelming cost of scaling and providing platforms for smaller business to base their web and infrastructure on. Other than that, its often just used as a Marketting lingo to loosely describe another form of whizzbang hosting for some specific service or other. Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 30 Nov 2011, at 07:25, "Mark Simms" wrote: > Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. > Web Development ? > Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. > > It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or > Desktop development. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 15:29:38 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 07:29:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Cloud Development In-Reply-To: <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> References: , <006401ccaeed$a52fb0b0$ef8f1210$@net>, <001301ccaf74$465cdd60$d3169820$@net> Message-ID: <4ED6A042.27002.21E87A1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Cloud development = web development where you don't know where your code and data are. :-) -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 10:25, Mark Simms wrote: > Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the above vs. > Web Development ? > Seems as though "Cloud Development" is the next huge growth area. > > It's likely to be the proverbial "last nail in the coffin" for Lan or > Desktop development. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 15:38:35 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 07:38:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: , <396fba1e-c77d-484e-b69b-3436da4be89b@blur>, Message-ID: <4ED6A25B.339.226BB4E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Try Alt+Enter to display the property sheet and Alt+F4 to close it and return to the control in question -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:26, Rocky Smolin wrote: > The one thing I'd like is a shortcut that would move the focus from the > property sheet back to the form or report being designed. When I click on > an event to create or edit the event module, then alt-Tab back to the form > or report, the property sheet still has the focus. I have to click outside > the property sheet - means using the mouse. A keyboard shortcut to do that > would be nice. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 15:55:22 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 07:55:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: , , <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. Many > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > really shows. > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > their potential business because of it. > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not an > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > additional sales you get because of it. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > Doug > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > >> > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > >> > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > >> > >> > >> -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Nov 30 16:14:31 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 23:14:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic Message-ID: Hi Stuart Also, it's a marketing boo-boo to offer old versions at reduced prices. Who want's an old version? Name them instead something like silver, gold, platinum, and plutonium; or student (free of course), entry, basic, and pro - you know - and feature a comparison chart where you easily can see what you miss when buying a cheaper version. /gustav >>> stuart at lexacorp.com.pg 30-11-2011 22:55 >>> Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. Many > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > really shows. > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > their potential business because of it. > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not an > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > additional sales you get because of it. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > Doug > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > >> > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > >> > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 16:34:01 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:34:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Manning specials during December Message-ID: <08C5E4DE10D44F4A9D364BBB0C976CB3@SusanHarkins> I know some of you buy a lot of technical books, so I thought I'd pass this along. Susan H. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 30 16:45:41 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:45:41 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7E9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> " It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View" Originally coming from the world of XL where you can scale objects up to 400% and ensure everything is perfectly aligned etc, I find the Access Form Designer to be a giant PITA. Why on earth don't they build a zoom function in?? I will never know... *sigh* -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 1:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; > > consoles, hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. > > I don't doubt it will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch > > keyboard built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice > > down and only worry about getting into the general area of where > > they need to be and not getting to a specific pixel. Just consider > > command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 30 16:48:58 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:48:58 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7FB@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yes I use extensively use align - so much so that they are the first tool set I add to any custom toolbar Access, but often you want to do other things where Align is not suitable or the right tool. Sometimes you cannot beat zooming in to see exactly what is going on. I guess coming from a graphics background as well, I find these missing functions rather odd. Like undo with MS office product - what is with that???. Most software manages multiple levels of undo - even after saving. XL even today can barely manage undo in any useful and meaningful way.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 2:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Nov 30 17:36:51 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:36:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com><4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS> <92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> Message-ID: <2C48F4FFE2824A5E976A662F11F1A70B@XPS> You do know you can change the grid right? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 12:28 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Sometimes the grid it too coarse to get the controls exactly where I want them. But again I use the keyboard - ctrl with an arrow nudges the control - and holding it down moves it continuously. I use that a lot. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 18:54:17 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:54:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <9E72DDCB73954A7DBA3CFF6B8472EC85@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> I guess that means; anonymous...without your name. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. Many > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > really shows. > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > their potential business because of it. > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not an > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > additional sales you get because of it. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > Doug > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic :-) > >> > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > >> > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > >> > >> > >> -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 19:10:26 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:10:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7E9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7E9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <1780838314E743B796E4C49C30534E26@HAL9007> What's XL? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 2:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 " It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View" Originally coming from the world of XL where you can scale objects up to 400% and ensure everything is perfectly aligned etc, I find the Access Form Designer to be a giant PITA. Why on earth don't they build a zoom function in?? I will never know... *sigh* -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 1:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; > > consoles, hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. > > I don't doubt it will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch > > keyboard built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice > > down and only worry about getting into the general area of where > > they need to be and not getting to a specific pixel. Just consider > > command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Nov 30 19:21:31 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:21:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <2C48F4FFE2824A5E976A662F11F1A70B@XPS> References: <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com><4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><7EC3E6637DD04D0E8C0967BF36E16C43@XPS><92566BB8F8DF4004979425878C2F957A@creativesystemdesigns.com><3BB6BACBD5AB4D7E8307D89567989BE4@HAL9007> <2C48F4FFE2824A5E976A662F11F1A70B@XPS> Message-ID: <1CEDE83EB1924B5796424DA323938699@HAL9007> No. One of the 75,000 things I have yet to learn about Access since I've only been using it for 15 years. :) R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 You do know you can change the grid right? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 12:28 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Sometimes the grid it too coarse to get the controls exactly where I want them. But again I use the keyboard - ctrl with an arrow nudges the control - and holding it down moves it continuously. I use that a lot. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Isn't that why you use the snap grid? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 <> Really? You don't simply use the align button? How do you even manage to do that? I run a 20" panel at 1280 x 1024 at 120DPI (96 DPI is standard) and I can barely see one pixel on the panel. That works out to roughly 1/100 of an inch! I don't think I could align controls manually to a single pixel even if I wanted to. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 09:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position > the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; consoles, > > hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. I don't > > doubt it > > will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch keyboard > > built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you > > really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice down and only > > worry about getting into the general area of where they need to be > > and not > > getting to a specific pixel. Just consider command buttons; I bet > > you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the > > fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Nov 30 19:22:23 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 11:22:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: , <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> No, anonymized as in - Details which could identify individuals removed. i.e. without identifying you or Doug or identifying what mailing list it was on. It was clearly from me. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 16:54, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I guess that means; anonymous...without your name. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. > > -- > Stuart > > On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. > Many > > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > > really shows. > > > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > > their potential business because of it. > > > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not > an > > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > > additional sales you get because of it. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > > > Doug > > > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby > wrote: > > > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > > :-) > > > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > >> > > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > > >> > > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dbdoug at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 19:34:20 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:34:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Good idea to pass on the criticism; hopefully he will take it as constructive... Doug On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > No, anonymized as in - Details which could identify individuals removed. > i.e. without identifying you or Doug or identifying what mailing list it > was on. > > It was clearly from me. > > -- > Stuart > > > On 30 Nov 2011 at 16:54, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > I guess that means; anonymous...without your name. ;-) > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:55 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > > > Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > > > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > > > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > > > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. > > Many > > > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > > > really shows. > > > > > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > > > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent > of > > > their potential business because of it. > > > > > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are > not > > an > > > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and > artist to > > > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > > > additional sales you get because of it. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > > > > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > > > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. > Multiple > > > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not > easy to > > > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > > > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > > > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on > it. > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby > > wrote: > > > > > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use > PowerBasic > > > :-) > > > > > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > > > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use > PowerBasic > > :-) > > > >> > > > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > > > >> > > > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd< > http://databaseadviso > > > rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Nov 30 19:41:35 2011 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 01:41:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <1780838314E743B796E4C49C30534E26@HAL9007> References: , <4ED6219B.6080907@colbyconsulting.com>, <4ED638A1.5899.89BAB9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF7E9@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <1780838314E743B796E4C49C30534E26@HAL9007> Message-ID: <56653D383CB80341995245C537A9E7B55DF98A@SINPRD0402MB099.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Sorry... Short hand for MS Excel. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 12:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 What's XL? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 2:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 " It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View" Originally coming from the world of XL where you can scale objects up to 400% and ensure everything is perfectly aligned etc, I find the Access Form Designer to be a giant PITA. Why on earth don't they build a zoom function in?? I will never know... *sigh* -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 1:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 And I align controls on Access etc forms and reports to the individual pixel. Anything less looks sloppy. It would be nice if you could zoom in on Forms and Reports in Design View -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 8:50, Steve Goodhall wrote: > I do change individual pixels when editing photos, especially scanned > negatives with dust or damage problems, but as you said, that's just a > matter of scaling. > > Re virtual keyboards, that's why I waited for the Motorola Droid 3. > > Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP > > -----Original message----- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:37 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but do you > really need that? No. > > One of my chief irritations with my Droid is the virtual keyboard, > constantly shifting to another keyboard to get at the numbers or > special characters. And try to position the pointer with my fat > fingertip to get at a specific character to back space over... > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 11/29/2011 8:52 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Stuart, > > > > I would agree to your points to a certain extent, but the main > > point > with > > touch screen interfaces is that they are variable, which is a very > powerful > > thing. > > > > Like your current keyboard layout? If not to bad, your stuck > > with it. > > Not so with a keyboard simulated on a touch screen. > > > > I'd also throw in the old saying "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's > > fact". Watch an episode of the original Star Trek; everything is > buttons. > > Now watch one of Star Trek Next Generation; everything is soft; > > consoles, hall displays, etc. There's not a real button anywhere. > > I don't doubt it will be long before we are living like that. Everything will be touch. > > > > Now take a look at the reality side; the aviation industry for example. > > Just about everything in aircraft avionics uses HUD's and > > multi-function displays (which have physical buttons, but they are "soft" in that their > > function changes based on the display). And of course we can see where > > consumer electronics is going. > > > > When you come right down to it, what's the difference between > > typing on > a > > keyboard and touching a display? Really none (you push something > > with > your > > finger). > > > > Something that would showcase that quite nicely is terminal emulation. > I > > need to remember that the "DO" key on a VAX is one combination under this > > emulation, another under this emulation, and different under a third. > And > > not all physical numeric keypads have the same layout, which is > > really important in the VAX world. I would much rather see and use > > a virtual keyboard on a touch screen. > > > > Take a look at the original Tron movie sometime; virtual touch > > keyboard built into the desktop. > > > > As far as pixel precision, it's really a matter of scaling, but > > do you really need that? No. In fact most people slow their mice > > down and only worry about getting into the general area of where > > they need to be and not getting to a specific pixel. Just consider > > command buttons; I bet you > make > > them larger then the text they display; why is that? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 08:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 > > > > What do you mean by "working with" virutal documents. > > > > If you mean creating/editing documents, give me a decent keyboard > > and the fine resolution of > > a mouse pointer or stylus please. How do you get anywhere near pixel > > precision with a > > fingertip? > > > > > > On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:25, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > >> Darryl -- > >> > >> Working with "virtual documents" by hands - two hands - on > >> multi-touch displays is no doubt more ergonomic and intuitive than using mouse... > >> The next logical step are "virtual desktops" - horizontally mounted > >> displays, "virtual blackboards" with "virtual keyboards" etc. - > >> that's another technological revolution of the ways of > >> communicating with computers by using a broad range of both hands gestures and voice... > >> > >> The next should probably be "virtual holographic displays" and 3D > > communication with them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- Shamil > >> > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Nov 30 20:02:47 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:02:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic In-Reply-To: <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4ED6A64A.19805.2361723@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0B13B652108F457B901B34D58B9528E7@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4ED6D6CF.14511.2F3A0D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <27A97464608E4078BCFF03C71C265060@creativesystemdesigns.com> Just checking. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic No, anonymized as in - Details which could identify individuals removed. i.e. without identifying you or Doug or identifying what mailing list it was on. It was clearly from me. -- Stuart On 30 Nov 2011 at 16:54, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I guess that means; anonymous...without your name. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > Thanks for the feedback, I've passed it on (anonymized) to Bob Zale. > > -- > Stuart > > On 30 Nov 2011 at 9:38, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > It is almost a badge of honour for programming geeks to have a lean and > > boring site. The attitude is that the site was hard enough to write it > > should be hard enough use. The trouble is that many of the geeks see no > > reason for all that wimpy fancy stuff, if it works that is good enough. > Many > > of these guys have absolute no artist or sales abilities, at all and it > > really shows. > > > > Of course, they are blissfully unaware that a crudgy site makes their > > product seem just as cheesy as their web site and they loss 90 percent of > > their potential business because of it. > > > > A word of wisdom. If you are selling anything on the web and you are not > an > > artist, do yourself a big favour and get a real web designer and artist to > > put your web UI together and you will be amazed at the respect and > > additional sales you get because of it. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tech Republic covers PowerBasic > > > > I just spent a few minutes reading the interview and looking at their > > website. They may have a good product, but the site is AWFUL. Multiple > > bright colours, cheesy fonts, lots of exclamation marks. It's not easy to > > find out exactly what products they have and how they're priced. I bet > > they'd have a ton more customers if they fixed it up - it's the kind of > > site that I would just click away from automatically if I stumbled on it. > > > > Doug > > > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:43 AM, jwcolby > wrote: > > > > > > A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > > :-) > > > > > > You do? I never realized! ;) > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > Reality is what refuses to go away > > > when you do not believe in it > > > > > > > > > On 11/29/2011 5:03 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > > > >> A few of you may be vaguely aware that I occassionally use PowerBasic > :-) > > >> > > >> Here's an interview with the founder, Bob Zale on Tech Republic > > >> > > >> http://goo.gl/KtZIE > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/accessd > rs.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com