[AccessD] To the Cloud or Not to the Cloud. that is the Question

Brad Marks BradM at blackforestltd.com
Sun Mar 30 14:24:55 CDT 2014


 Doug,

Thanks for the tip on Amazon AWS.  I have read a little about this offering but have not yet played with it.

I have had quite a bit of fun with Microsoft Azure SQL.  I have studied the restrictions of Azure SQL.  I don't believe that  these will be a problem for the little project that I am thinking about.

Sure feels like some major IT shifts with the realm of tablets and the world of cloud options.

We have certainly come a long way from the IBM 360 Model 40 that I cut my teeth on.

Brad



> On Mar 30, 2014, at 12:51 PM, "Doug Murphy" <dw-murphy at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> Brad,
> 
> If your experimenting you might be interested in Amazon AWS. You get a
> year's free trial to play, including a small, but full installation of SQL
> Server, not the crippled AZURE version as I understand. I have built a file
> storage system for customer that allows his customers to download documents
> that my customer creates for them. Built this in .NET. I have been
> experimenting with Amazon Work Spaces which is a streamed Windows 7 desktop
> hosted by Amazon. We were interested as folks keep asking if they can run
> our software, based on Access, on a Mac, Tablet, whatever. With this
> approach they can. I installed our runtime on the Amazon VM and we can run
> from anything that Amazon has a interface for. As of now Window, Mac,
> Android. I'd like to see something that would stream just the application as
> the whole desktop thing is a little expensive, $35/mo.
> 
> Happy experimenting. There are lots of toys in the playground.
> 
> Doug
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 12:18 PM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] To the Cloud or Not to the Cloud. that is the
> Question
> 
> Bill,
> 
> About half the people who know me call me Mark instead of Brad.  Doesn't
> bother me a bit.  
> 
> Thanks for your ideas and insights.
> 
> I started working with computers way back in 1975 and I am currently
> semi-retired, working only 20 hours per week.  The experimenting that I am
> doing with Azure has been mostly at home, on my time and just a little bit
> on company time so far.  I feel like I need to better understand Azure and
> experiment with it before making a recommendation at work. 
> 
> Microsoft offers a free 30 day trial, so the only investment that I have
> made so far, is a little time.
> 
> I plan to post any significant findings here on AccessD, as I would guess
> that others might also be interested in the Microsoft Cloud.
> 
> Brad Marks
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Benson [mailto:bensonforums at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 5:21 PM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] To the Cloud or Not to the Cloud. that is the
> Question
> 
> Errr "Brad"... sorry.
> 
> Half my acquaintances call me Ben at one time or other, so I have felt your
> frustration I am sure.
>> On Mar 27, 2014 6:17 PM, "Bill Benson" <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I have no experience with the cloud and perhaps in less open minded 
>> circles this negates the value of my opinion. But never this group, 
>> for which I am grateful. I would weigh the possibility of a web 
>> service outage which you are unlikely to have any control over, 
>> against the very much more expensive redundant hardware bases you will 
>> have to cover to even touch the reliability of the web.
>> 
>> The option to have the data available and accessible where and when 
>> you need it seems to be a no - brainer in favor of a web platform from 
>> a reliable cloud operation. And unless you are running heaps of 
>> insertions with huge datasets, I have little doubt you will be that 
>> unhappy with the performance. This is, if you are satisfied with MS as 
>> a development platform.
>> 
>> I do have to ask, have you looked into portability / migration if the 
>> tool proves unsatisfactory in the long term? Can you ask MS for a data 
>> pump version of your database or would you just have to turn it off 
>> and walk away, subject to a few exports of tables, but leave all your 
>> development behind? (Not that things would be all that different 
>> necessarily with an Oracle or SQL Server application either but I do 
>> think with those you can export the schema, no?)
>> 
>> I am sure if you don't get your feet wet trying a web service database 
>> it will be a mark against you career wise so why not use the current 
>> need to be able to say been there done that on someone else's dime. It 
>> comes well supported and at least fairly well recommended, do you have 
>> that much to lose?
>> 
>> I wish the future was nit web development because I am so uninitiated 
>> in it, wish I had an employer asking me to test out the platform Mark, 
>> I would say go for it.
>>> On Mar 27, 2014 5:54 PM, "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Brad
>>> 
>>> Your observation is correct. The Azure setup and the speed at which 
>>> it evolves is impressive and proves to me the old saying "don't ever 
>>> underestimate Microsoft".
>>> Because Microsoft didn't invent this, the "cloud". Amazon did that. 
>>> But having seen the light, there's no doubt that massive resources 
>>> have been allocated this infrastructure and the support it needs 
>>> beyond establishing the large and reliable data centers: Easy 
>>> administration targeted admins at enterprises, scalability not 
>>> possible with in-house hardware, programming interfaces, and - perhaps
> the most important part - the integration to ...
>>> well, everything you can think of.
>>> 
>>> One of our clients has asked for a customized document store and flow 
>>> control. Problem is that this is a TV production company were all 
>>> except accounting use Macs, and the network setup is handled by 
>>> various Mac "techies" (you guessed it, it's a mess) so setting up a 
>>> server in this environment is perhaps not then at least the last option.
>>> 
>>> So, seriously, I consider storing all data at Azure. JC is right, 
>>> that internet connection reliabilty and speed is a valid concern, but 
>>> clients like these have fiber connections at 100+ Mb/s. It will work.
>>> Deciding to do so will, first, take very little to create the 
>>> development environment and, second, deployment will be close to just 
>>> "flip a switch". Add to this the establishing cost of zero money and 
>>> ongoing costs that without in-house techies are impossible to match.
>>> 
>>> Still, I believe, we will arrange for an off-line backup of all data
>>> - just in case.
>>> 
>>> /gustav
>>> 
>>> ________________________________________
>>> Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com < 
>>> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> på vegne af Brad Marks < 
>>> BradM at blackforestltd.com>
>>> Sendt: 27. marts 2014 21:37
>>> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>>> Emne: [AccessD] To the Cloud or Not to the Cloud. that is the 
>>> Question
>>> 
>>> All,
>>> 
>>> A few days ago, I posted a question regarding a new database that 
>>> will be needed for a new small application (perhaps using Access 
>>> 2007, MySQL, or Microsoft SQL Server).  I received a number of 
>>> replies to my question and I appreciate the insights that were shared.
>>> 
>>> In the mean time, I have also been doing some R&D work with Microsoft 
>>> Azure SQL Database.
>>> So far, I have been impressed.
>>> 
>>> Yesterday in less than one hour, I was able accomplish the following
>>> - Set up a new Microsoft Azure Account Set up a new SQL Database Then 
>>> with a small Access 2007 application using ODBC and Pass-through 
>>> Queries I was able to Add a new table to the new test database Insert 
>>> rows into the new table Retrieve this data.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> My background is in mainframe databases (Primarily IBM's DB2 and 
>>> Cincom's Supra).  I can remember how much work it was to accomplish 
>>> these same simple steps with these databases.  Sometimes we would 
>>> spend days, just wrestling with DB2's security.
>>> 
>>> It is my understanding that other Access users are using Azure with 
>>> some success.  It also sounds like the costs for our use of Azure 
>>> will be very small ($5.00 - $10.00 per month).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> At this point in time, it seems like this is a good option for our 
>>> little project. (We don't have Microsoft SQL Server installed 
>>> "in-house").
>>> 
>>> I am curious if others have looked closely at Azure and decided to 
>>> not go down this path.  Perhaps there are downsides that I have not 
>>> yet read about. Perhaps I am missing some important considerations.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brad
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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