[AccessD] To the Cloud or Not to the Cloud. that is the Question

Brad Marks BradM at blackforestltd.com
Sun Mar 30 18:54:22 CDT 2014


Doug,

WOW   IBM 1620 !

Did you program in IBM Autocoder?

Those were the good old days!

Brad

PS.  I still have a large deck of unused computer cards.  I figure that they will be worth a lot someday  :-)

> On Mar 30, 2014, at 4:52 PM, "Doug Murphy" <dw-murphy at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> It is amazing the amount of computing power you can rent for a small amount of money.
> 
> You were a few IBM generations after the first computer I learned on, IBM 1620, at my college. It took up a whole room, and had a heard of real geeks for it's care and feeding. They got really POed whey a card deck would put it into a loop;-)  Now I think you can get about the same amount of computing power in a cheap watch.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks
> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 12:25 PM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] To the Cloud or Not to the Cloud. that is the Question
> 
> Doug,
> 
> Thanks for the tip on Amazon AWS.  I have read a little about this offering but have not yet played with it.
> 
> I have had quite a bit of fun with Microsoft Azure SQL.  I have studied the restrictions of Azure SQL.  I don't believe that  these will be a problem for the little project that I am thinking about.
> 
> Sure feels like some major IT shifts with the realm of tablets and the world of cloud options.
> 
> We have certainly come a long way from the IBM 360 Model 40 that I cut my teeth on.
> 
> Brad
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 30, 2014, at 12:51 PM, "Doug Murphy" <dw-murphy at cox.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Brad,
>> 
>> If your experimenting you might be interested in Amazon AWS. You get a 
>> year's free trial to play, including a small, but full installation of 
>> SQL Server, not the crippled AZURE version as I understand. I have 
>> built a file storage system for customer that allows his customers to 
>> download documents that my customer creates for them. Built this in 
>> .NET. I have been experimenting with Amazon Work Spaces which is a 
>> streamed Windows 7 desktop hosted by Amazon. We were interested as 
>> folks keep asking if they can run our software, based on Access, on a 
>> Mac, Tablet, whatever. With this approach they can. I installed our 
>> runtime on the Amazon VM and we can run from anything that Amazon has 
>> a interface for. As of now Window, Mac, Android. I'd like to see 
>> something that would stream just the application as the whole desktop thing is a little expensive, $35/mo.
>> 
>> Happy experimenting. There are lots of toys in the playground.
>> 
>> Doug
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks
>> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 12:18 PM
>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] To the Cloud or Not to the Cloud. that is the 
>> Question
>> 
>> Bill,
>> 
>> About half the people who know me call me Mark instead of Brad.  
>> Doesn't bother me a bit.
>> 
>> Thanks for your ideas and insights.
>> 
>> I started working with computers way back in 1975 and I am currently 
>> semi-retired, working only 20 hours per week.  The experimenting that 
>> I am doing with Azure has been mostly at home, on my time and just a 
>> little bit on company time so far.  I feel like I need to better 
>> understand Azure and experiment with it before making a recommendation at work.
>> 
>> Microsoft offers a free 30 day trial, so the only investment that I 
>> have made so far, is a little time.
>> 
>> I plan to post any significant findings here on AccessD, as I would 
>> guess that others might also be interested in the Microsoft Cloud.
>> 
>> Brad Marks
>> 
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bill Benson [mailto:bensonforums at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 5:21 PM
>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] To the Cloud or Not to the Cloud. that is the 
>> Question
>> 
>> Errr "Brad"... sorry.
>> 
>> Half my acquaintances call me Ben at one time or other, so I have felt 
>> your frustration I am sure.
>>> On Mar 27, 2014 6:17 PM, "Bill Benson" <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have no experience with the cloud and perhaps in less open minded 
>>> circles this negates the value of my opinion. But never this group, 
>>> for which I am grateful. I would weigh the possibility of a web 
>>> service outage which you are unlikely to have any control over, 
>>> against the very much more expensive redundant hardware bases you 
>>> will have to cover to even touch the reliability of the web.
>>> 
>>> The option to have the data available and accessible where and when 
>>> you need it seems to be a no - brainer in favor of a web platform 
>>> from a reliable cloud operation. And unless you are running heaps of 
>>> insertions with huge datasets, I have little doubt you will be that 
>>> unhappy with the performance. This is, if you are satisfied with MS 
>>> as a development platform.
>>> 
>>> I do have to ask, have you looked into portability / migration if the 
>>> tool proves unsatisfactory in the long term? Can you ask MS for a 
>>> data pump version of your database or would you just have to turn it 
>>> off and walk away, subject to a few exports of tables, but leave all 
>>> your development behind? (Not that things would be all that different 
>>> necessarily with an Oracle or SQL Server application either but I do 
>>> think with those you can export the schema, no?)
>>> 
>>> I am sure if you don't get your feet wet trying a web service 
>>> database it will be a mark against you career wise so why not use the 
>>> current need to be able to say been there done that on someone else's 
>>> dime. It comes well supported and at least fairly well recommended, 
>>> do you have that much to lose?
>>> 
>>> I wish the future was nit web development because I am so uninitiated 
>>> in it, wish I had an employer asking me to test out the platform 
>>> Mark, I would say go for it.
>>>> On Mar 27, 2014 5:54 PM, "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Brad
>>>> 
>>>> Your observation is correct. The Azure setup and the speed at which 
>>>> it evolves is impressive and proves to me the old saying "don't ever 
>>>> underestimate Microsoft".
>>>> Because Microsoft didn't invent this, the "cloud". Amazon did that. 
>>>> But having seen the light, there's no doubt that massive resources 
>>>> have been allocated this infrastructure and the support it needs 
>>>> beyond establishing the large and reliable data centers: Easy 
>>>> administration targeted admins at enterprises, scalability not 
>>>> possible with in-house hardware, programming interfaces, and - 
>>>> perhaps
>> the most important part - the integration to ...
>>>> well, everything you can think of.
>>>> 
>>>> One of our clients has asked for a customized document store and 
>>>> flow control. Problem is that this is a TV production company were 
>>>> all except accounting use Macs, and the network setup is handled by 
>>>> various Mac "techies" (you guessed it, it's a mess) so setting up a 
>>>> server in this environment is perhaps not then at least the last option.
>>>> 
>>>> So, seriously, I consider storing all data at Azure. JC is right, 
>>>> that internet connection reliabilty and speed is a valid concern, 
>>>> but clients like these have fiber connections at 100+ Mb/s. It will work.
>>>> Deciding to do so will, first, take very little to create the 
>>>> development environment and, second, deployment will be close to 
>>>> just "flip a switch". Add to this the establishing cost of zero 
>>>> money and ongoing costs that without in-house techies are impossible to match.
>>>> 
>>>> Still, I believe, we will arrange for an off-line backup of all data
>>>> - just in case.
>>>> 
>>>> /gustav
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com < 
>>>> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> på vegne af Brad Marks < 
>>>> BradM at blackforestltd.com>
>>>> Sendt: 27. marts 2014 21:37
>>>> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>>>> Emne: [AccessD] To the Cloud or Not to the Cloud. that is the 
>>>> Question
>>>> 
>>>> All,
>>>> 
>>>> A few days ago, I posted a question regarding a new database that 
>>>> will be needed for a new small application (perhaps using Access 
>>>> 2007, MySQL, or Microsoft SQL Server).  I received a number of 
>>>> replies to my question and I appreciate the insights that were shared.
>>>> 
>>>> In the mean time, I have also been doing some R&D work with 
>>>> Microsoft Azure SQL Database.
>>>> So far, I have been impressed.
>>>> 
>>>> Yesterday in less than one hour, I was able accomplish the following
>>>> - Set up a new Microsoft Azure Account Set up a new SQL Database 
>>>> Then with a small Access 2007 application using ODBC and 
>>>> Pass-through Queries I was able to Add a new table to the new test 
>>>> database Insert rows into the new table Retrieve this data.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> My background is in mainframe databases (Primarily IBM's DB2 and 
>>>> Cincom's Supra).  I can remember how much work it was to accomplish 
>>>> these same simple steps with these databases.  Sometimes we would 
>>>> spend days, just wrestling with DB2's security.
>>>> 
>>>> It is my understanding that other Access users are using Azure with 
>>>> some success.  It also sounds like the costs for our use of Azure 
>>>> will be very small ($5.00 - $10.00 per month).
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> At this point in time, it seems like this is a good option for our 
>>>> little project. (We don't have Microsoft SQL Server installed 
>>>> "in-house").
>>>> 
>>>> I am curious if others have looked closely at Azure and decided to 
>>>> not go down this path.  Perhaps there are downsides that I have not 
>>>> yet read about. Perhaps I am missing some important considerations.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Brad
>>>> 
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