From bensonforums at gmail.com Sun May 4 17:07:19 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 18:07:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Message-ID: <004f01cf67e5$38e335e0$aaa9a1a0$@gmail.com> I think you all might get a kick out of reading this. It starts out with some guy talking trash about Access... and ends up with dozens of responses to his rather irresponsible and poorly thought out (meanwhile *trying* to sound authoritative and long-suffering) - blog post. http://blogs.starcio.com/2013/04/please-stop-creating-microsoft-access.html Maybe you all are tired of the debates, but I have not read many of these so for me it was entertainment. My favorite line is from Michael Grimmet 5:43PM that begins: "I've made a couple million dollars as a silly Access developer. Still make big bucks on it to this day." I want to live that dude's life! -Bill B From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 4 17:28:43 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 08:28:43 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <004f01cf67e5$38e335e0$aaa9a1a0$@gmail.com> References: <004f01cf67e5$38e335e0$aaa9a1a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5366BF1B.20612.AC9B301@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I''ve probably made a couple of millions bucks as a silly Access Developer too. But since that's spread over 20 years and has had to cover all the expenses of running a business over that time, it's not really all that great. (an average of $100,000 gross income p.a. ?) -- Stuart On 4 May 2014 at 18:07, Bill Benson wrote: > Maybe you all are tired of the debates, but I have not read many of > these so for me it was entertainment. My favorite line is from Michael > Grimmet 5:43PM that begins: "I've made a couple million dollars as a > silly Access developer. Still make big bucks on it to this day." I > want to live that dude's life! > > -Bill B > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun May 4 17:30:04 2014 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 18:30:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <004f01cf67e5$38e335e0$aaa9a1a0$@gmail.com> References: <004f01cf67e5$38e335e0$aaa9a1a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: As an admitted expert in Access, I have points to make. The first is that it a very powerful development platform, and given the ADP stuff, it its shocking how quickly you can deliver an app. That said, I have abandoned Access and moved to Alpha Anywhere. It is so much more powerful that a comparison does not work. A. From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun May 4 17:46:36 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 04 May 2014 18:46:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: References: <004f01cf67e5$38e335e0$aaa9a1a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <975A61F5-0789-48F1-BF45-1E0B27D419A5@verizon.net> Arthur, With all due respect, how many more times are we going to hear about this? It feels like this is getting to be an almost weekly thing. I'm sure everyone on the list is aware of the product at this point and if they wanted to try it, they have. Maybe if you offered some more specifics on why it's so much better, it would be of more interest to everyone. But I for one am getting tired of hearing the sales pitch. Jim Sent from my iPhone On May 4, 2014, at 6:30 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > As an admitted expert in Access, I have points to make. The first is that > it a very powerful development platform, and given the ADP stuff, it its > shocking how quickly you can deliver an app. > > That said, I have abandoned Access and moved to Alpha Anywhere. It is so > much more powerful that a comparison does not work. > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 4 18:01:09 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 09:01:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <975A61F5-0789-48F1-BF45-1E0B27D419A5@verizon.net> References: <004f01cf67e5$38e335e0$aaa9a1a0$@gmail.com>, , <975A61F5-0789-48F1-BF45-1E0B27D419A5@verizon.net> Message-ID: <5366C6B5.12423.AE76531@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> But not on the Access list please. I too hav had more than enough of it. -- Stuart On 4 May 2014 at 18:46, Jim Dettman wrote: > Arthur, > > With all due respect, how many more times are we going to hear about > this? It feels like this is getting to be an almost weekly thing. > > I'm sure everyone on the list is aware of the product at this point > and if they wanted to try it, they have. > > Maybe if you offered some more specifics on why it's so much better, > it would be of more interest to everyone. > > But I for one am getting tired of hearing the sales pitch. > > Jim > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 4, 2014, at 6:30 PM, Arthur Fuller > wrote: > ... > > That said, I have abandoned Access and moved to Alpha Anywhere. It > > is so much more powerful that a comparison does not work. > > From TSeptav at Uniserve.com Sun May 4 18:56:45 2014 From: TSeptav at Uniserve.com (Tony Septav) Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 18:56:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <5366C6B5.12423.AE76531@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201405042356.s44NuleK020886@databaseadvisors.com> Hey All Oh gosh guys and girls. I would be truly interested in hearing about RAD development tools for the mobile world. Why be caustic, we know in the majority of the cases ACCESS is down the tubes. Sorry but I just think we should be smiling not frowning. Tony Septav Nanaimo, BC Canada -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: May-04-14 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? But not on the Access list please. I too hav had more than enough of it. -- Stuart On 4 May 2014 at 18:46, Jim Dettman wrote: > Arthur, > > With all due respect, how many more times are we going to hear about > this? It feels like this is getting to be an almost weekly thing. > > I'm sure everyone on the list is aware of the product at this point > and if they wanted to try it, they have. > > Maybe if you offered some more specifics on why it's so much better, > it would be of more interest to everyone. > > But I for one am getting tired of hearing the sales pitch. > > Jim > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 4, 2014, at 6:30 PM, Arthur Fuller > wrote: > ... > > That said, I have abandoned Access and moved to Alpha Anywhere. It > > is so much more powerful that a comparison does not work. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4570 / Virus Database: 3931/7439 - Release Date: 05/04/14 From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 4 19:05:38 2014 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 17:05:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <004f01cf67e5$38e335e0$aaa9a1a0$@gmail.com> References: <004f01cf67e5$38e335e0$aaa9a1a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <02811A4A8D044374B9CB9175603D5FD9@HAL9007> I have been doing Access since 1998 - about 15-16 years. I have made well over a million dollars with Access. However 1,000,000 / 16 = is only $62,500 a year. Not enough to make one want to be their own boss, pay their own health insurance, buy their own holidays an sick days, and cover the overhead of running a business, is it? Of course, I did a little better than $62,500 a year with it and retired this year after my commercial product was acquired. So, yeah, Access been bery, bery good to me. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 3:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? I think you all might get a kick out of reading this. It starts out with some guy talking trash about Access... and ends up with dozens of responses to his rather irresponsible and poorly thought out (meanwhile *trying* to sound authoritative and long-suffering) - blog post. http://blogs.starcio.com/2013/04/please-stop-creating-microsoft-access.html Maybe you all are tired of the debates, but I have not read many of these so for me it was entertainment. My favorite line is from Michael Grimmet 5:43PM that begins: "I've made a couple million dollars as a silly Access developer. Still make big bucks on it to this day." I want to live that dude's life! -Bill B -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 4 19:28:45 2014 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 17:28:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <004f01cf67e5$38e335e0$aaa9a1a0$@gmail.com> References: <004f01cf67e5$38e335e0$aaa9a1a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <41755724D2EB451E9FA50534E6AF720D@HAL9007> Right tool for the job. Sometimes a vise grip is not the right tool even though it can do lots of stuff. Like driving a screw. Vise grip - bas, screwdriver - good. So why does it have to be either/or. Some of my long time clients: 1. sport fishing company 2. audio visual equipment rental 3. seed distributor 4. commercial real estate appraisal 5. steel service center 6. CPA course marketer 7. Carmelite Monastery 8. HVAC fabricator All of these outfits are 2-6 users. They DON'T want SQL or .Net. They don't have the support for those platforms. They are blown away at how fast an inexpensively I can deliver a working application. Even my manufacturing app which goes into manufacturing companies from startup to $20,000,000 or so. 2-10 users. They DON'T want a DBA on staff. SQL is overkill. Access is perfect. It's not for everyone and the range of companies may have changed over the last 10 years. But I love obsolete technology. I works! R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 3:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? I think you all might get a kick out of reading this. It starts out with some guy talking trash about Access... and ends up with dozens of responses to his rather irresponsible and poorly thought out (meanwhile *trying* to sound authoritative and long-suffering) - blog post. http://blogs.starcio.com/2013/04/please-stop-creating-microsoft-access.html Maybe you all are tired of the debates, but I have not read many of these so for me it was entertainment. My favorite line is from Michael Grimmet 5:43PM that begins: "I've made a couple million dollars as a silly Access developer. Still make big bucks on it to this day." I want to live that dude's life! -Bill B -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Sun May 4 20:16:37 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 01:16:37 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <41755724D2EB451E9FA50534E6AF720D@HAL9007> References: <004f01cf67e5$38e335e0$aaa9a1a0$@gmail.com> <41755724D2EB451E9FA50534E6AF720D@HAL9007> Message-ID: Yeah, Totally agree Rocky. Some of the folks I work with now use Sharepoint lists via Office 365 - (who would have thought, but for simple solutions they work really well) rather than MS Access for their data base requirements - and this work great for them and they are stoked I moved them over. However, I would never push an solution or platform onto a client without really understanding their needs, requirements, technical skills, budget and number of employees / growth (both now and future). What works great for Client A might not be so good for Client B. We still use MS Access extensively in my current 'day / real job' role - although due to using more complex and larger data sets I have created a SQL Server BE solution for them here for the main tool set we use. Even so much of what we do is purely Access. This is largely because we build a lot of ad-hoc and one off type solutions for each project and Access is agile and easy to use and fast to whip up solutions. Access is also 100% transportable which can be super useful as well. Other places I do work for are still 100% MS Access (or god forbid - ?qu? horror! Use only MS Excel) for their needs. I like the sound of Alpha Anywhere and I appreciate the x-platform functionality and (probable) ease to set up and use, but I don't have any clients who have a need for that. The few that do need 'cloud' / mobile type solutions use Office 365 and are very happy with it. I am also happy with it given there is pretty much zero maintenance required with 365 once you have it up and running (and since I am the IT Fix It dude for these places that is very good for me, and indeed, them). I can see examples where A.A. would be the ideal solution - assuming you can find someone to support it for you, but for most of the micro / small businesses I work with (outside of my 'real' job) it is just not required. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, 5 May 2014 10:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Right tool for the job. Sometimes a vise grip is not the right tool even though it can do lots of stuff. Like driving a screw. Vise grip - bas, screwdriver - good. So why does it have to be either/or. Some of my long time clients: 1. sport fishing company 2. audio visual equipment rental 3. seed distributor 4. commercial real estate appraisal 5. steel service center 6. CPA course marketer 7. Carmelite Monastery 8. HVAC fabricator All of these outfits are 2-6 users. They DON'T want SQL or .Net. They don't have the support for those platforms. They are blown away at how fast an inexpensively I can deliver a working application. Even my manufacturing app which goes into manufacturing companies from startup to $20,000,000 or so. 2-10 users. They DON'T want a DBA on staff. SQL is overkill. Access is perfect. It's not for everyone and the range of companies may have changed over the last 10 years. But I love obsolete technology. I works! R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 3:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? I think you all might get a kick out of reading this. It starts out with some guy talking trash about Access... and ends up with dozens of responses to his rather irresponsible and poorly thought out (meanwhile *trying* to sound authoritative and long-suffering) - blog post. http://blogs.starcio.com/2013/04/please-stop-creating-microsoft-access.html Maybe you all are tired of the debates, but I have not read many of these so for me it was entertainment. My favorite line is from Michael Grimmet 5:43PM that begins: "I've made a couple million dollars as a silly Access developer. Still make big bucks on it to this day." I want to live that dude's life! -Bill B -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Sun May 4 22:45:44 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 23:45:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: References: <004f01cf67e5$38e335e0$aaa9a1a0$@gmail.com> <41755724D2EB451E9FA50534E6AF720D@HAL9007> Message-ID: <000401cf6814$7f59f430$7e0ddc90$@gmail.com> Over here you'd have to be a frequent imbiber to believe this: >> A.A. would be the ideal solution -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 9:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Yeah, Totally agree Rocky. Some of the folks I work with now use Sharepoint lists via Office 365 - (who would have thought, but for simple solutions they work really well) rather than MS Access for their data base requirements - and this work great for them and they are stoked I moved them over. However, I would never push an solution or platform onto a client without really understanding their needs, requirements, technical skills, budget and number of employees / growth (both now and future). What works great for Client A might not be so good for Client B. We still use MS Access extensively in my current 'day / real job' role - although due to using more complex and larger data sets I have created a SQL Server BE solution for them here for the main tool set we use. Even so much of what we do is purely Access. This is largely because we build a lot of ad-hoc and one off type solutions for each project and Access is agile and easy to use and fast to whip up solutions. Access is also 100% transportable which can be super useful as well. Other places I do work for are still 100% MS Access (or god forbid - ?qu? horror! Use only MS Excel) for their needs. I like the sound of Alpha Anywhere and I appreciate the x-platform functionality and (probable) ease to set up and use, but I don't have any clients who have a need for that. The few that do need 'cloud' / mobile type solutions use Office 365 and are very happy with it. I am also happy with it given there is pretty much zero maintenance required with 365 once you have it up and running (and since I am the IT Fix It dude for these places that is very good for me, and indeed, them). I can see examples where A.A. would be the ideal solution - assuming you can find someone to support it for you, but for most of the micro / small businesses I work with (outside of my 'real' job) it is just not required. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, 5 May 2014 10:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Right tool for the job. Sometimes a vise grip is not the right tool even though it can do lots of stuff. Like driving a screw. Vise grip - bas, screwdriver - good. So why does it have to be either/or. Some of my long time clients: 1. sport fishing company 2. audio visual equipment rental 3. seed distributor 4. commercial real estate appraisal 5. steel service center 6. CPA course marketer 7. Carmelite Monastery 8. HVAC fabricator All of these outfits are 2-6 users. They DON'T want SQL or .Net. They don't have the support for those platforms. They are blown away at how fast an inexpensively I can deliver a working application. Even my manufacturing app which goes into manufacturing companies from startup to $20,000,000 or so. 2-10 users. They DON'T want a DBA on staff. SQL is overkill. Access is perfect. It's not for everyone and the range of companies may have changed over the last 10 years. But I love obsolete technology. I works! R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 3:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? I think you all might get a kick out of reading this. It starts out with some guy talking trash about Access... and ends up with dozens of responses to his rather irresponsible and poorly thought out (meanwhile *trying* to sound authoritative and long-suffering) - blog post. http://blogs.starcio.com/2013/04/please-stop-creating-microsoft-access.html Maybe you all are tired of the debates, but I have not read many of these so for me it was entertainment. My favorite line is from Michael Grimmet 5:43PM that begins: "I've made a couple million dollars as a silly Access developer. Still make big bucks on it to this day." I want to live that dude's life! -Bill B -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 5 03:14:40 2014 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 08:14:40 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Message-ID: <0bdbc5fff6464111ada9c882f1ec9a55@AMSPR06MB311.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Hi Bill This Isaac is just another blogger not worth spending your precious time on. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Bill Benson Sendt: 5. maj 2014 00:07 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? I think you all might get a kick out of reading this. It starts out with some guy talking trash about Access... and ends up with dozens of responses to his rather irresponsible and poorly thought out (meanwhile *trying* to sound authoritative and long-suffering) - blog post. http://blogs.starcio.com/2013/04/please-stop-creating-microsoft-access.html Maybe you all are tired of the debates, but I have not read many of these so for me it was entertainment. My favorite line is from Michael Grimmet 5:43PM that begins: "I've made a couple million dollars as a silly Access developer. Still make big bucks on it to this day." I want to live that dude's life! -Bill B From fhtapia at gmail.com Mon May 5 14:42:21 2014 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 12:42:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: References: <004f01cf67e5$38e335e0$aaa9a1a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Arthur, Finally read up a little on this product. if I were still an Access Developer why would I want to use this software? it seems to have nothing to do with Access. Their case study on converting an Access app http://alphasoftware.net/convert-an-access-application-into-a-web-application-alpha-anywhere/to an alpha software application has as much relevance as me trying to convince users on the forum to use Titanium to create cross-mobile apps from their existing Access apps. I didn't find any compelling information on their site or in this case study. I would have just done the sql upsizing on my own as I have always done, and built the FrontEnd to be web/ios/android as the case warranted. Sorry old friend, but I must confess that I don't see what the point is to advertise a product without any details on how a developer's life would be better by migrating to the new platform. -Francisco On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > As an admitted expert in Access, I have points to make. The first is that > it a very powerful development platform, and given the ADP stuff, it its > shocking how quickly you can deliver an app. > > That said, I have abandoned Access and moved to Alpha Anywhere. It is so > much more powerful that a comparison does not work. > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bensonforums at gmail.com Mon May 5 15:06:20 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 16:06:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: References: <004f01cf67e5$38e335e0$aaa9a1a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Well to be fair, Arthur has told us in the past what he sees in the product, and why he likes it, even describing some its uses and ease of use. He was probably trying not to be overly redundant. As for making the developer's life easier I doubt Arthur's life has gotten any easier. And I bet he has lost a LOT if power and flexibility versus building ACCDB front ends. I really didn't see my post - which was relaying one blogger's viewpoint that the first step in avoiding a "sadBA" existence was forsaking MS Access - to which he got negative comments in a 20+ to 1 ratio - as begging to have AA plugged again. Art rest assured, when we want to know more about AA (on an Access community forum like this one? Don't hold your breath) we know you are our man. On May 5, 2014 3:45 PM, "Francisco Tapia" wrote: > > Arthur, > Finally read up a little on this product. if I were still an Access > Developer why would I want to use this software? it seems to have nothing > to do with Access. Their case study on converting an Access app > http://alphasoftware.net/convert-an-access-application-into-a-web-application-alpha-anywhere/to > an alpha software application has as much relevance as me trying to > convince users on the forum to use Titanium to create cross-mobile apps > from their existing Access apps. > > I didn't find any compelling information on their site or in this case > study. I would have just done the sql upsizing on my own as I have always > done, and built the FrontEnd to be web/ios/android as the case warranted. > > Sorry old friend, but I must confess that I don't see what the point is to > advertise a product without any details on how a developer's life would be > better by migrating to the new platform. > > > -Francisco > From TSeptav at Uniserve.com Mon May 5 18:18:49 2014 From: TSeptav at Uniserve.com (Tony Septav) Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 18:18:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201405052318.s45NIpCE022813@databaseadvisors.com> Hey All What a bunch of old farts (like a boardroom). I guess you all still like the classic Coke. Tony Septav Nanaimo,BC Canada -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: May-05-14 3:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Well to be fair, Arthur has told us in the past what he sees in the product, and why he likes it, even describing some its uses and ease of use. He was probably trying not to be overly redundant. As for making the developer's life easier I doubt Arthur's life has gotten any easier. And I bet he has lost a LOT if power and flexibility versus building ACCDB front ends. I really didn't see my post - which was relaying one blogger's viewpoint that the first step in avoiding a "sadBA" existence was forsaking MS Access - to which he got negative comments in a 20+ to 1 ratio - as begging to have AA plugged again. Art rest assured, when we want to know more about AA (on an Access community forum like this one? Don't hold your breath) we know you are our man. On May 5, 2014 3:45 PM, "Francisco Tapia" wrote: > > Arthur, > Finally read up a little on this product. if I were still an Access > Developer why would I want to use this software? it seems to have nothing > to do with Access. Their case study on converting an Access app > http://alphasoftware.net/convert-an-access-application-into-a-web-applicatio n-alpha-anywhere/to > an alpha software application has as much relevance as me trying to > convince users on the forum to use Titanium to create cross-mobile apps > from their existing Access apps. > > I didn't find any compelling information on their site or in this case > study. I would have just done the sql upsizing on my own as I have always > done, and built the FrontEnd to be web/ios/android as the case warranted. > > Sorry old friend, but I must confess that I don't see what the point is to > advertise a product without any details on how a developer's life would be > better by migrating to the new platform. > > > -Francisco > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4570 / Virus Database: 3931/7440 - Release Date: 05/04/14 From michael at mattysconsulting.com Mon May 5 21:40:54 2014 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 22:40:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <201405052318.s45NIpCE022813@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201405052318.s45NIpCE022813@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <002401cf68d4$9b337530$d19a5f90$@mattysconsulting.com> I'm in my forties, still like classic Coke and Access. We do work Access/SQL work in various departments for the some of the largest retailers doing business in the US. C#, WPF, and Dynamics CRM, too, but it sure isn't dead and I've certainly enjoyed customizing Access with the Win32 API. Your statement reminded me of Karl Peterson (vb.mvps.org). Note: IIRC, Arthur would prefer not to be called 'Art', though he may have relaxed that constraint somewhat so as not to belabor the issue. Michael R Mattys Mattys Consulting, LLC www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Monday, May 5, 2014 7:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Hey All What a bunch of old farts (like a boardroom). I guess you all still like the classic Coke. Tony Septav Nanaimo,BC Canada -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: May-05-14 3:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Well to be fair, Arthur has told us in the past what he sees in the product, and why he likes it, even describing some its uses and ease of use. He was probably trying not to be overly redundant. As for making the developer's life easier I doubt Arthur's life has gotten any easier. And I bet he has lost a LOT if power and flexibility versus building ACCDB front ends. I really didn't see my post - which was relaying one blogger's viewpoint that the first step in avoiding a "sadBA" existence was forsaking MS Access - to which he got negative comments in a 20+ to 1 ratio - as begging to have AA plugged again. Art rest assured, when we want to know more about AA (on an Access community forum like this one? Don't hold your breath) we know you are our man. On May 5, 2014 3:45 PM, "Francisco Tapia" wrote: > > Arthur, > Finally read up a little on this product. if I were still an Access > Developer why would I want to use this software? it seems to have > nothing to do with Access. Their case study on converting an Access > app > http://alphasoftware.net/convert-an-access-application-into-a-web-applicatio n-alpha-anywhere/to > an alpha software application has as much relevance as me trying to > convince users on the forum to use Titanium to create cross-mobile > apps from their existing Access apps. > > I didn't find any compelling information on their site or in this case > study. I would have just done the sql upsizing on my own as I have > always done, and built the FrontEnd to be web/ios/android as the case warranted. > > Sorry old friend, but I must confess that I don't see what the point > is to advertise a product without any details on how a developer's > life would be better by migrating to the new platform. > > > -Francisco > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4570 / Virus Database: 3931/7440 - Release Date: 05/04/14 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Mon May 5 22:23:45 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 23:23:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <002401cf68d4$9b337530$d19a5f90$@mattysconsulting.com> References: <201405052318.s45NIpCE022813@databaseadvisors.com> <002401cf68d4$9b337530$d19a5f90$@mattysconsulting.com> Message-ID: Guilty. Sorry Arthur, meant no disrespect, it is your email address that did it to me. No bs. On May 5, 2014 10:42 PM, "Michael Mattys" wrote: > I'm in my forties, still like classic Coke and Access. > We do work Access/SQL work in various departments for the some of the > largest retailers doing business in the US. > C#, WPF, and Dynamics CRM, too, but it sure isn't dead and I've certainly > enjoyed customizing Access with the Win32 API. > Your statement reminded me of Karl Peterson (vb.mvps.org). > > Note: IIRC, Arthur would prefer not to be called 'Art', though he may have > relaxed that constraint somewhat so as not to belabor the issue. > > Michael R Mattys > Mattys Consulting, LLC > www.mattysconsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav > Sent: Monday, May 5, 2014 7:19 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > > Hey All > What a bunch of old farts (like a boardroom). I guess you all still like > the > classic Coke. > > Tony Septav > Nanaimo,BC > Canada > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson > Sent: May-05-14 3:06 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > > Well to be fair, Arthur has told us in the past what he sees in the > product, > and why he likes it, even describing some its uses and ease of use. He was > probably trying not to be overly redundant. > > As for making the developer's life easier I doubt Arthur's life has gotten > any easier. And I bet he has lost a LOT if power and flexibility versus > building ACCDB front ends. > > I really didn't see my post - which was relaying one blogger's viewpoint > that the first step in avoiding a "sadBA" existence was forsaking MS Access > - to which he got negative comments in a 20+ to 1 ratio - as begging to > have AA plugged again. > > Art rest assured, when we want to know more about AA (on an Access > community > forum like this one? Don't hold your breath) we know you are our man. > > On May 5, 2014 3:45 PM, "Francisco Tapia" wrote: > > > > Arthur, > > Finally read up a little on this product. if I were still an Access > > Developer why would I want to use this software? it seems to have > > nothing to do with Access. Their case study on converting an Access > > app > > > > http://alphasoftware.net/convert-an-access-application-into-a-web-applicatio > n-alpha-anywhere/to > > an alpha software application has as much relevance as me trying to > > convince users on the forum to use Titanium to create cross-mobile > > apps from their existing Access apps. > > > > I didn't find any compelling information on their site or in this case > > study. I would have just done the sql upsizing on my own as I have > > always done, and built the FrontEnd to be web/ios/android as the case > warranted. > > > > Sorry old friend, but I must confess that I don't see what the point > > is to advertise a product without any details on how a developer's > > life would be better by migrating to the new platform. > > > > > > -Francisco > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4570 / Virus Database: 3931/7440 - Release Date: 05/04/14 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 5 22:59:58 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 06 May 2014 13:59:58 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: References: , <002401cf68d4$9b337530$d19a5f90$@mattysconsulting.com>, Message-ID: <53685E3E.20712.111F58E2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Ashley, whenever I see Arthurs address, I think of Jack Dawkins, aka Dickens' Artful Dodger from Oliver Twist. -- Stuart On 5 May 2014 at 23:23, Bill Benson wrote: > Guilty. > > Sorry Arthur, meant no disrespect, it is your email address that did > it to me. No bs. On May 5, 2014 10:42 PM, "Michael Mattys" > wrote: > ... > > > > Note: IIRC, Arthur would prefer not to be called 'Art', though he > > may have relaxed that constraint somewhat so as not to belabor the > > issue. > > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 6 01:17:53 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 00:17:53 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <002401cf68d4$9b337530$d19a5f90$@mattysconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1472184310.40283943.1399357073456.JavaMail.root@cds018> The only weakness to Access is that it can not just port to the web...outside of that every feature is covered. But with the way the New Microsoft has been advancing as of late it might now be a possibility. I heard that at the large Linux fest, in Bellingham, Washington, on the last weekend, Microsoft showed up in force...and that has never happened before anywhere. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mattys" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, May 5, 2014 7:40:54 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? I'm in my forties, still like classic Coke and Access. We do work Access/SQL work in various departments for the some of the largest retailers doing business in the US. C#, WPF, and Dynamics CRM, too, but it sure isn't dead and I've certainly enjoyed customizing Access with the Win32 API. Your statement reminded me of Karl Peterson (vb.mvps.org). Note: IIRC, Arthur would prefer not to be called 'Art', though he may have relaxed that constraint somewhat so as not to belabor the issue. Michael R Mattys Mattys Consulting, LLC www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Monday, May 5, 2014 7:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Hey All What a bunch of old farts (like a boardroom). I guess you all still like the classic Coke. Tony Septav Nanaimo,BC Canada -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: May-05-14 3:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Well to be fair, Arthur has told us in the past what he sees in the product, and why he likes it, even describing some its uses and ease of use. He was probably trying not to be overly redundant. As for making the developer's life easier I doubt Arthur's life has gotten any easier. And I bet he has lost a LOT if power and flexibility versus building ACCDB front ends. I really didn't see my post - which was relaying one blogger's viewpoint that the first step in avoiding a "sadBA" existence was forsaking MS Access - to which he got negative comments in a 20+ to 1 ratio - as begging to have AA plugged again. Art rest assured, when we want to know more about AA (on an Access community forum like this one? Don't hold your breath) we know you are our man. On May 5, 2014 3:45 PM, "Francisco Tapia" wrote: > > Arthur, > Finally read up a little on this product. if I were still an Access > Developer why would I want to use this software? it seems to have > nothing to do with Access. Their case study on converting an Access > app > http://alphasoftware.net/convert-an-access-application-into-a-web-applicatio n-alpha-anywhere/to > an alpha software application has as much relevance as me trying to > convince users on the forum to use Titanium to create cross-mobile > apps from their existing Access apps. > > I didn't find any compelling information on their site or in this case > study. I would have just done the sql upsizing on my own as I have > always done, and built the FrontEnd to be web/ios/android as the case warranted. > > Sorry old friend, but I must confess that I don't see what the point > is to advertise a product without any details on how a developer's > life would be better by migrating to the new platform. > > > -Francisco > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4570 / Virus Database: 3931/7440 - Release Date: 05/04/14 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Tue May 6 08:45:20 2014 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 08:45:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <1472184310.40283943.1399357073456.JavaMail.root@cds018> References: <002401cf68d4$9b337530$d19a5f90$@mattysconsulting.com> <1472184310.40283943.1399357073456.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: I thought I would tell you about my experience with Alpha v11 (A11). Alpha Anywhere (AA) is v12. First, some background. I'm an independent contractor for the federal government, specifically for the Army Research Laboratory. My work began with them six years ago - I've been working on the same project the entire time using Access exclusively. The project I'm working on is complex... 72 tables, 555 queries, 169 forms, 156 reports and about 50 UDFs. I convinced the director of the unit to purchase A11 so we could migrate the tool I created from Access in the hope we could use the web capability. A few months after it was purchased, Alpha Anywhere came out. With time constraints, deadlines, etc. I didn't get to start using A11 for a few months. After AA was released, I thought I could purchase a copy for home and ... it should be backward compatible. Not so. When I called the company to see if I could develop at work and develop at home with A11 and AA. I was told they were not compatible and an upgrade for work was needed... an additional several hundred dollars. I decided not to purchase a copy for home use. The other issue was that the Army IT folks told us Alpha anything was not authorized on any network. So... we thought I could put it on what they call a stand-alone laptop (not to be connected to the network) and do the development there. But anything that was developed, would need a "Certificate of Networthiness" (CoN) from the Army to put it on the network ... typically a one year process which takes about one year. I started going through the tutorials, pretty cool. Works as designed. I started to migrate the tool that I created. Not so cool. It converted tables, some queries and then not much else. This meant that I had to create the forms and reports from scratch. Mmmm... that's a lot of work. Two other things that need to be pointed out. One, AA creates a separate file for every table, query, form, report or anything else in a specific folder on the hard drive. Unlike Access everything is in one container - one file. Two, to migrate AA to another computer - one has to package it up and then install it, unlike Access you just need to copy a file. In the grand scheme of things, we opted not to go with A11 or AA. It seemed to be a lot of work for little benefit for our purposes. The project I'm working on morphed into something entirely different that it's original concept. Originally, we wanted to use the tool on the network at one of the training facilities. The CoN expired before it was fully implemented. Now the tool is being used in several research studies on stand-alone laptops. Jim On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 1:17 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > The only weakness to Access is that it can not just port to the > web...outside of that every feature is covered. But with the way the New > Microsoft has been advancing as of late it might now be a possibility. > > I heard that at the large Linux fest, in Bellingham, Washington, on the > last weekend, Microsoft showed up in force...and that has never happened > before anywhere. > > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Mattys" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" < > accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Sent: Monday, May 5, 2014 7:40:54 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > > I'm in my forties, still like classic Coke and Access. > We do work Access/SQL work in various departments for the some of the > largest retailers doing business in the US. > C#, WPF, and Dynamics CRM, too, but it sure isn't dead and I've certainly > enjoyed customizing Access with the Win32 API. > Your statement reminded me of Karl Peterson (vb.mvps.org). > > Note: IIRC, Arthur would prefer not to be called 'Art', though he may have > relaxed that constraint somewhat so as not to belabor the issue. > > Michael R Mattys > Mattys Consulting, LLC > www.mattysconsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav > Sent: Monday, May 5, 2014 7:19 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > > Hey All > What a bunch of old farts (like a boardroom). I guess you all still like > the > classic Coke. > > Tony Septav > Nanaimo,BC > Canada > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson > Sent: May-05-14 3:06 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > > Well to be fair, Arthur has told us in the past what he sees in the > product, > and why he likes it, even describing some its uses and ease of use. He was > probably trying not to be overly redundant. > > As for making the developer's life easier I doubt Arthur's life has gotten > any easier. And I bet he has lost a LOT if power and flexibility versus > building ACCDB front ends. > > I really didn't see my post - which was relaying one blogger's viewpoint > that the first step in avoiding a "sadBA" existence was forsaking MS Access > - to which he got negative comments in a 20+ to 1 ratio - as begging to > have AA plugged again. > > Art rest assured, when we want to know more about AA (on an Access > community > forum like this one? Don't hold your breath) we know you are our man. > > On May 5, 2014 3:45 PM, "Francisco Tapia" wrote: > > > > Arthur, > > Finally read up a little on this product. if I were still an Access > > Developer why would I want to use this software? it seems to have > > nothing to do with Access. Their case study on converting an Access > > app > > > > http://alphasoftware.net/convert-an-access-application-into-a-web-applicatio > n-alpha-anywhere/to > > an alpha software application has as much relevance as me trying to > > convince users on the forum to use Titanium to create cross-mobile > > apps from their existing Access apps. > > > > I didn't find any compelling information on their site or in this case > > study. I would have just done the sql upsizing on my own as I have > > always done, and built the FrontEnd to be web/ios/android as the case > warranted. > > > > Sorry old friend, but I must confess that I don't see what the point > > is to advertise a product without any details on how a developer's > > life would be better by migrating to the new platform. > > > > > > -Francisco > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4570 / Virus Database: 3931/7440 - Release Date: 05/04/14 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 6 09:10:29 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 06 May 2014 10:10:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: References: <002401cf68d4$9b337530$d19a5f90$@mattysconsulting.com> <1472184310.40283943.1399357073456.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: <2F0A6FE6DD484A43B8C3414BFC66E344@XPS> Ok, a couple of questions that may be of interest to others as well (you or Arthur). These are areas where I feel Access falls short or does really well as a development tool: 1. Ability to use 3rd party DLL's and controls; are you limited to what is natively provided? If so, is what is native sufficient? Was there anything lacking that you wanted? 2. Can you call the windows API? 3. Does it compile into a standalone Exe or the equivalent. In other words, is it as sensitive as Access is to it's environment (I'm talking VBA and broken references, bad Office install, etc)? 4. Do you have the ability to debug at runtime on the fly? 5. Is it possible to do a 3 tier design without resorting to another tool? 6. Do you as a developer, have full control over the all the windows it presents. With Access, you have good control of everything except the main Access window. 7. Does it have the ability to connect to a wide range of data sources like Access? I.e. can I read an Excel spreadsheet directly as a table? Import/Export data easily? 8. Does it support OLE automation? Can I still send mail through Outlook? I think those would be all of the biggies for most of us. I don't see converting as a nuisance. That's likely moving from any product to any another product. In my experience, data moves OK but just about everything else never does. It doesn't bother me either that it doesn't use a database container, but certainly there is a loss of convenience there. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 09:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? I thought I would tell you about my experience with Alpha v11 (A11). Alpha Anywhere (AA) is v12. First, some background. I'm an independent contractor for the federal government, specifically for the Army Research Laboratory. My work began with them six years ago - I've been working on the same project the entire time using Access exclusively. The project I'm working on is complex... 72 tables, 555 queries, 169 forms, 156 reports and about 50 UDFs. <> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue May 6 10:42:48 2014 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 11:42:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <2F0A6FE6DD484A43B8C3414BFC66E344@XPS> References: <002401cf68d4$9b337530$d19a5f90$@mattysconsulting.com> <1472184310.40283943.1399357073456.JavaMail.root@cds018> <2F0A6FE6DD484A43B8C3414BFC66E344@XPS> Message-ID: Jim Hewson (not Lawrence), An Access app consisting of 72 tables is not a complex app. First of all, we need two better words than "complex". I suggest "Rich" and "Large", whose terms I think I inherited from Chris Date, but it might have been Fabian Pascal, or even the Father of Us All, Codd (in close company I call him The Coddfather). History aside, I would describe a complex app as consisting of at least 500 tables, and there goes one of the main reasons why Access int its packaged version falls a tad short of the mark. In specific terms, the Relationships tool is woefully inadequate even with 55 tables, let alone 500. That's when you need SSMS or equivalent tools -- when you need 10 relationship diagrams not one, and when you need to concentrate on one aspect of the app rather than the whole app, and that one aspect might involve 100 tables. This is especially important when the team involves several programmers, and also when developers die or retire, and new hires have to be brought up to speed. I neglected to define the terms Rich and Large. Rich means there are hundreds of tables, many of which have a relatively few rows. Large means they are relatively few tables, but they contain millions of rows. It is also possible that a given database is both Rich and Large, but that happens rarely. Usually the system is one or the other. I've developed a couple of exceptions, for example the software that runs a nuclear plant; that is way different than an app for a Mom'n'Pop hardware store or a household renovation firm. Suppose for example that you need 584 parts to assemble Product XYZ, and that every single part is potentially available from several vendors, and that you need to check who can supply 486 of these parts by tomorrow. You need to interrogate their inventory, and suppose that nobody has 486 parts, so you have to split the order and ensure that the deliveries shall arrive in time to fill your orders. This sort of problem is not trivial. Failure could conceivably cost $750k per hour. I've done a lot of apps like this. It's expensive, but the development time is peanuts compared to the profit if it works. Such companies understand this, and so do we developers. It has got to work, or millions could be lost in a day of down-time. Working on such projects has cost me a couple of marriages, because I was two days late for dinner. I'm too old to this stuff any more, but I remain fully aware of how difficult it is. There is definitely truth to the maxim that your thinking slows as you age, and it is also true that a young buck just out of university hasn't the faintest glimpse of the complexity of such problems, or the costs of failure. In jobs like this, failure is not an option. I have done this sort of app, using Access with a serious server using SQL Server and also MySQL. 500 tables and dozens of forms and 2k stored procedures and queries. This stuff is non-trivial. It demands a whole lot of design time and a whole of development time. You do it one piece at a time, starting with the most financially critical. The whole project takes several years, which enables you to buy a nicer car and perhaps a new couch. You work insane hours and eventually your spouse leaves you. That's the truth. A. ? From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue May 6 12:04:37 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 13:04:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: References: <002401cf68d4$9b337530$d19a5f90$@mattysconsulting.com> <1472184310.40283943.1399357073456.JavaMail.root@cds018> <2F0A6FE6DD484A43B8C3414BFC66E344@XPS> Message-ID: <00aa01cf694d$43f59540$cbe0bfc0$@gmail.com> >> I would describe a complex app as consisting of at least 500 tables The number of tables does not drive how complex an app is, it is the relationships of those tables and the queries used for them and the forms and controls and their respective recordsources and rowsources that make an application complex or simple. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 11:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Jim Hewson (not Lawrence), An Access app consisting of 72 tables is not a complex app. First of all, we need two better words than "complex". I suggest "Rich" and "Large", whose terms I think I inherited from Chris Date, but it might have been Fabian Pascal, or even the Father of Us All, Codd (in close company I call him The Coddfather). History aside, I would describe a complex app as consisting of at least 500 tables, and there goes one of the main reasons why Access int its packaged version falls a tad short of the mark. In specific terms, the Relationships tool is woefully inadequate even with 55 tables, let alone 500. That's when you need SSMS or equivalent tools -- when you need 10 relationship diagrams not one, and when you need to concentrate on one aspect of the app rather than the whole app, and that one aspect might involve 100 tables. This is especially important when the team involves several programmers, and also when developers die or retire, and new hires have to be brought up to speed. I neglected to define the terms Rich and Large. Rich means there are hundreds of tables, many of which have a relatively few rows. Large means they are relatively few tables, but they contain millions of rows. It is also possible that a given database is both Rich and Large, but that happens rarely. Usually the system is one or the other. I've developed a couple of exceptions, for example the software that runs a nuclear plant; that is way different than an app for a Mom'n'Pop hardware store or a household renovation firm. Suppose for example that you need 584 parts to assemble Product XYZ, and that every single part is potentially available from several vendors, and that you need to check who can supply 486 of these parts by tomorrow. You need to interrogate their inventory, and suppose that nobody has 486 parts, so you have to split the order and ensure that the deliveries shall arrive in time to fill your orders. This sort of problem is not trivial. Failure could conceivably cost $750k per hour. I've done a lot of apps like this. It's expensive, but the development time is peanuts compared to the profit if it works. Such companies understand this, and so do we developers. It has got to work, or millions could be lost in a day of down-time. Working on such projects has cost me a couple of marriages, because I was two days late for dinner. I'm too old to this stuff any more, but I remain fully aware of how difficult it is. There is definitely truth to the maxim that your thinking slows as you age, and it is also true that a young buck just out of university hasn't the faintest glimpse of the complexity of such problems, or the costs of failure. In jobs like this, failure is not an option. I have done this sort of app, using Access with a serious server using SQL Server and also MySQL. 500 tables and dozens of forms and 2k stored procedures and queries. This stuff is non-trivial. It demands a whole lot of design time and a whole of development time. You do it one piece at a time, starting with the most financially critical. The whole project takes several years, which enables you to buy a nicer car and perhaps a new couch. You work insane hours and eventually your spouse leaves you. That's the truth. A. ? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue May 6 12:06:36 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 13:06:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: References: <002401cf68d4$9b337530$d19a5f90$@mattysconsulting.com> <1472184310.40283943.1399357073456.JavaMail.root@cds018> <2F0A6FE6DD484A43B8C3414BFC66E344@XPS> Message-ID: <00ab01cf694d$8a742720$9f5c7560$@gmail.com> >> Rich means there are hundreds of tables, many of which have a relatively few rows. Large means they are relatively few tables, but they contain millions of rows. You have created mutual exclusivity in your definition, I would suggest Rich means there are hundreds of tables Large means they contain millions of rows Done! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 11:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Jim Hewson (not Lawrence), An Access app consisting of 72 tables is not a complex app. First of all, we need two better words than "complex". I suggest "Rich" and "Large", whose terms I think I inherited from Chris Date, but it might have been Fabian Pascal, or even the Father of Us All, Codd (in close company I call him The Coddfather). History aside, I would describe a complex app as consisting of at least 500 tables, and there goes one of the main reasons why Access int its packaged version falls a tad short of the mark. In specific terms, the Relationships tool is woefully inadequate even with 55 tables, let alone 500. That's when you need SSMS or equivalent tools -- when you need 10 relationship diagrams not one, and when you need to concentrate on one aspect of the app rather than the whole app, and that one aspect might involve 100 tables. This is especially important when the team involves several programmers, and also when developers die or retire, and new hires have to be brought up to speed. I neglected to define the terms Rich and Large. Rich means there are hundreds of tables, many of which have a relatively few rows. Large means they are relatively few tables, but they contain millions of rows. It is also possible that a given database is both Rich and Large, but that happens rarely. Usually the system is one or the other. I've developed a couple of exceptions, for example the software that runs a nuclear plant; that is way different than an app for a Mom'n'Pop hardware store or a household renovation firm. Suppose for example that you need 584 parts to assemble Product XYZ, and that every single part is potentially available from several vendors, and that you need to check who can supply 486 of these parts by tomorrow. You need to interrogate their inventory, and suppose that nobody has 486 parts, so you have to split the order and ensure that the deliveries shall arrive in time to fill your orders. This sort of problem is not trivial. Failure could conceivably cost $750k per hour. I've done a lot of apps like this. It's expensive, but the development time is peanuts compared to the profit if it works. Such companies understand this, and so do we developers. It has got to work, or millions could be lost in a day of down-time. Working on such projects has cost me a couple of marriages, because I was two days late for dinner. I'm too old to this stuff any more, but I remain fully aware of how difficult it is. There is definitely truth to the maxim that your thinking slows as you age, and it is also true that a young buck just out of university hasn't the faintest glimpse of the complexity of such problems, or the costs of failure. In jobs like this, failure is not an option. I have done this sort of app, using Access with a serious server using SQL Server and also MySQL. 500 tables and dozens of forms and 2k stored procedures and queries. This stuff is non-trivial. It demands a whole lot of design time and a whole of development time. You do it one piece at a time, starting with the most financially critical. The whole project takes several years, which enables you to buy a nicer car and perhaps a new couch. You work insane hours and eventually your spouse leaves you. That's the truth. A. ? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 6 14:31:16 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 13:31:16 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1783606434.40776083.1399404676740.JavaMail.root@cds018> A few years ago, when working on one government project, (it was Oracle), the number of tables was such, that the layout of the schema covered two walls in my office. I honestly have no idea how many tables and queries were involved, today, but I remember that the print out was done so we could keep track of what was happening as no one on the project could just remember everything off the top. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 8:42:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Jim Hewson (not Lawrence), An Access app consisting of 72 tables is not a complex app. First of all, we need two better words than "complex". I suggest "Rich" and "Large", whose terms I think I inherited from Chris Date, but it might have been Fabian Pascal, or even the Father of Us All, Codd (in close company I call him The Coddfather). History aside, I would describe a complex app as consisting of at least 500 tables, and there goes one of the main reasons why Access int its packaged version falls a tad short of the mark. In specific terms, the Relationships tool is woefully inadequate even with 55 tables, let alone 500. That's when you need SSMS or equivalent tools -- when you need 10 relationship diagrams not one, and when you need to concentrate on one aspect of the app rather than the whole app, and that one aspect might involve 100 tables. This is especially important when the team involves several programmers, and also when developers die or retire, and new hires have to be brought up to speed. I neglected to define the terms Rich and Large. Rich means there are hundreds of tables, many of which have a relatively few rows. Large means they are relatively few tables, but they contain millions of rows. It is also possible that a given database is both Rich and Large, but that happens rarely. Usually the system is one or the other. I've developed a couple of exceptions, for example the software that runs a nuclear plant; that is way different than an app for a Mom'n'Pop hardware store or a household renovation firm. Suppose for example that you need 584 parts to assemble Product XYZ, and that every single part is potentially available from several vendors, and that you need to check who can supply 486 of these parts by tomorrow. You need to interrogate their inventory, and suppose that nobody has 486 parts, so you have to split the order and ensure that the deliveries shall arrive in time to fill your orders. This sort of problem is not trivial. Failure could conceivably cost $750k per hour. I've done a lot of apps like this. It's expensive, but the development time is peanuts compared to the profit if it works. Such companies understand this, and so do we developers. It has got to work, or millions could be lost in a day of down-time. Working on such projects has cost me a couple of marriages, because I was two days late for dinner. I'm too old to this stuff any more, but I remain fully aware of how difficult it is. There is definitely truth to the maxim that your thinking slows as you age, and it is also true that a young buck just out of university hasn't the faintest glimpse of the complexity of such problems, or the costs of failure. In jobs like this, failure is not an option. I have done this sort of app, using Access with a serious server using SQL Server and also MySQL. 500 tables and dozens of forms and 2k stored procedures and queries. This stuff is non-trivial. It demands a whole lot of design time and a whole of development time. You do it one piece at a time, starting with the most financially critical. The whole project takes several years, which enables you to buy a nicer car and perhaps a new couch. You work insane hours and eventually your spouse leaves you. That's the truth. A. ? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue May 6 16:41:29 2014 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 17:41:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <1783606434.40776083.1399404676740.JavaMail.root@cds018> References: <1783606434.40776083.1399404676740.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: Precisely my point, Jim. This is not about a weightlifting contest, I had no intention of this thread going there, but I did mean to distinguish between an app that takes a month or two to write and another that takes a year or two to write. In large part, it concerns the number of tables, stored procedures and queries. Fair enough, but it also concerns the number of simultaneous users and their geographical distribution. That latter point can be huge if the firm has 40 offices in 10 countries. That introduces significant complexites And none of this addresses the PITA issue (Point In Time Architecture), which basically says that the traditional relational concepts of Insert and Update and Delete are destructive of what data existed a moment ago. That is a very significant problem and requires a whole lot of planning, but to oversimplify, it means that Updates and Deletes are forbidden, and that every table in the DB be able to handle this. That means that every table has a pair of date fields (call them EffectiveDate and EndDate), and that all queries respect these fields. For example, take your average 50-year-old medical patient: she has probably had a few family physicians, optometrists and so on, due to moving to Seattle for a new job and a year or two later it's Denver. What this sort of database requires is the ability to wind the clock back to 2002, say. That is flatly impossible with the traditional Insert, Update, Delete model. The only way this can be handled is the PITA model: every table has EffectiveDate and EndDate columns and every query and stored procedure respects these columns. Who was your dentist in 2004? Who sold you that Ford that you gave to your daughter in 2012? Where did you live in 1999 and who was your physician at that time? These questions describe the fundamental problem with traditional RDMS -- every action is destructive to what existed a moment ago. I have written about this problem and described a solution or two in Simple-Talk.com. Maybe I didn't cover every eventuality but I tried to cover most. Anyone interested in these problems is invited to search simple-talk.com and see my initial research. I make no claim to definitive research; this is a topic for lots of contributors. I need help with taking this further. Arthur On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > A few years ago, when working on one government project, (it was Oracle), > the number of tables was such, that the layout of the schema covered two > walls in my office. I honestly have no idea how many tables and queries > were involved, today, but I remember that the print out was done so we > could keep track of what was happening as no one on the project could just > remember everything off the top. > > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arthur Fuller" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" < > accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 8:42:48 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > > Jim Hewson (not Lawrence), > An Access app consisting of 72 tables is not a complex app. First of all, > we need two better words than "complex". I suggest "Rich" and "Large", > whose terms I think I inherited from Chris Date, but it might have been > Fabian Pascal, or even the Father of Us All, Codd (in close company I call > him The Coddfather). > > History aside, I would describe a complex app as consisting of at least 500 > tables, and there goes one of the main reasons why Access int its packaged > version falls a tad short of the mark. In specific terms, the Relationships > tool is woefully inadequate even with 55 tables, let alone 500. That's when > you need SSMS or equivalent tools -- when you need 10 relationship diagrams > not one, and when you need to concentrate on one aspect of the app rather > than the whole app, and that one aspect might involve 100 tables. This is > especially important when the team involves several programmers, and also > when developers die or retire, and new hires have to be brought up to > speed. > > I neglected to define the terms Rich and Large. Rich means there are > hundreds of tables, many of which have a relatively few rows. Large means > they are relatively few tables, but they contain millions of rows. It is > also possible that a given database is both Rich and Large, but that > happens rarely. Usually the system is one or the other. I've developed a > couple of exceptions, for example the software that runs a nuclear plant; > that is way different than an app for a Mom'n'Pop hardware store or a > household renovation firm. Suppose for example that you need 584 parts to > assemble Product XYZ, and that every single part is potentially available > from several vendors, and that you need to check who can supply 486 of > these parts by tomorrow. You need to interrogate their inventory, and > suppose that nobody has 486 parts, so you have to split the order and > ensure that the deliveries shall arrive in time to fill your orders. This > sort of problem is not trivial. Failure could conceivably cost $750k per > hour. > > I've done a lot of apps like this. It's expensive, but the development time > is peanuts compared to the profit if it works. Such companies understand > this, and so do we developers. It has got to work, or millions could be > lost in a day of down-time. Working on such projects has cost me a couple > of marriages, because I was two days late for dinner. > > I'm too old to this stuff any more, but I remain fully aware of how > difficult it is. There is definitely truth to the maxim that your thinking > slows as you age, and it is also true that a young buck just out of > university hasn't the faintest glimpse of the complexity of such problems, > or the costs of failure. In jobs like this, failure is not an option. > > I have done this sort of app, using Access with a serious server using SQL > Server and also MySQL. 500 tables and dozens of forms and 2k stored > procedures and queries. This stuff is non-trivial. It demands a whole lot > of design time and a whole of development time. You do it one piece at a > time, starting with the most financially critical. The whole project takes > several years, which enables you to buy a nicer car and perhaps a new > couch. You work insane hours and eventually your spouse leaves you. That's > the truth. > > A. > ? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Arthur From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 6 17:18:40 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 16:18:40 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <219211120.40900724.1399414720374.JavaMail.root@cds018> You are right, that seems to be the latest concepts of databases. No records are deleted only added...they can be flagged as archived or timestamped updates. Big online, databases do not have the time to do real deletes or updates. For years we were always been fighting for storage space but now we can afford to backup, backup and backup. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 2:41:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Precisely my point, Jim. This is not about a weightlifting contest, I had no intention of this thread going there, but I did mean to distinguish between an app that takes a month or two to write and another that takes a year or two to write. In large part, it concerns the number of tables, stored procedures and queries. Fair enough, but it also concerns the number of simultaneous users and their geographical distribution. That latter point can be huge if the firm has 40 offices in 10 countries. That introduces significant complexites And none of this addresses the PITA issue (Point In Time Architecture), which basically says that the traditional relational concepts of Insert and Update and Delete are destructive of what data existed a moment ago. That is a very significant problem and requires a whole lot of planning, but to oversimplify, it means that Updates and Deletes are forbidden, and that every table in the DB be able to handle this. That means that every table has a pair of date fields (call them EffectiveDate and EndDate), and that all queries respect these fields. For example, take your average 50-year-old medical patient: she has probably had a few family physicians, optometrists and so on, due to moving to Seattle for a new job and a year or two later it's Denver. What this sort of database requires is the ability to wind the clock back to 2002, say. That is flatly impossible with the traditional Insert, Update, Delete model. The only way this can be handled is the PITA model: every table has EffectiveDate and EndDate columns and every query and stored procedure respects these columns. Who was your dentist in 2004? Who sold you that Ford that you gave to your daughter in 2012? Where did you live in 1999 and who was your physician at that time? These questions describe the fundamental problem with traditional RDMS -- every action is destructive to what existed a moment ago. I have written about this problem and described a solution or two in Simple-Talk.com. Maybe I didn't cover every eventuality but I tried to cover most. Anyone interested in these problems is invited to search simple-talk.com and see my initial research. I make no claim to definitive research; this is a topic for lots of contributors. I need help with taking this further. Arthur On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > A few years ago, when working on one government project, (it was Oracle), > the number of tables was such, that the layout of the schema covered two > walls in my office. I honestly have no idea how many tables and queries > were involved, today, but I remember that the print out was done so we > could keep track of what was happening as no one on the project could just > remember everything off the top. > > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arthur Fuller" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" < > accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 8:42:48 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > > Jim Hewson (not Lawrence), > An Access app consisting of 72 tables is not a complex app. First of all, > we need two better words than "complex". I suggest "Rich" and "Large", > whose terms I think I inherited from Chris Date, but it might have been > Fabian Pascal, or even the Father of Us All, Codd (in close company I call > him The Coddfather). > > History aside, I would describe a complex app as consisting of at least 500 > tables, and there goes one of the main reasons why Access int its packaged > version falls a tad short of the mark. In specific terms, the Relationships > tool is woefully inadequate even with 55 tables, let alone 500. That's when > you need SSMS or equivalent tools -- when you need 10 relationship diagrams > not one, and when you need to concentrate on one aspect of the app rather > than the whole app, and that one aspect might involve 100 tables. This is > especially important when the team involves several programmers, and also > when developers die or retire, and new hires have to be brought up to > speed. > > I neglected to define the terms Rich and Large. Rich means there are > hundreds of tables, many of which have a relatively few rows. Large means > they are relatively few tables, but they contain millions of rows. It is > also possible that a given database is both Rich and Large, but that > happens rarely. Usually the system is one or the other. I've developed a > couple of exceptions, for example the software that runs a nuclear plant; > that is way different than an app for a Mom'n'Pop hardware store or a > household renovation firm. Suppose for example that you need 584 parts to > assemble Product XYZ, and that every single part is potentially available > from several vendors, and that you need to check who can supply 486 of > these parts by tomorrow. You need to interrogate their inventory, and > suppose that nobody has 486 parts, so you have to split the order and > ensure that the deliveries shall arrive in time to fill your orders. This > sort of problem is not trivial. Failure could conceivably cost $750k per > hour. > > I've done a lot of apps like this. It's expensive, but the development time > is peanuts compared to the profit if it works. Such companies understand > this, and so do we developers. It has got to work, or millions could be > lost in a day of down-time. Working on such projects has cost me a couple > of marriages, because I was two days late for dinner. > > I'm too old to this stuff any more, but I remain fully aware of how > difficult it is. There is definitely truth to the maxim that your thinking > slows as you age, and it is also true that a young buck just out of > university hasn't the faintest glimpse of the complexity of such problems, > or the costs of failure. In jobs like this, failure is not an option. > > I have done this sort of app, using Access with a serious server using SQL > Server and also MySQL. 500 tables and dozens of forms and 2k stored > procedures and queries. This stuff is non-trivial. It demands a whole lot > of design time and a whole of development time. You do it one piece at a > time, starting with the most financially critical. The whole project takes > several years, which enables you to buy a nicer car and perhaps a new > couch. You work insane hours and eventually your spouse leaves you. That's > the truth. > > A. > ? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue May 6 17:38:15 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 18:38:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <219211120.40900724.1399414720374.JavaMail.root@cds018> References: <219211120.40900724.1399414720374.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: Well if you are backing up I wouldn't think you would worry too much about deleting tables. Deleting rows is not just about storage, it is also about performance. If you don't need the data, jettison it... and save the "big storage is cheap" rallying cry for your backup data. On May 6, 2014 6:19 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > You are right, that seems to be the latest concepts of databases. > > No records are deleted only added...they can be flagged as archived or > timestamped updates. Big online, databases do not have the time to do real > deletes or updates. For years we were always been fighting for storage > space but now we can afford to backup, backup and backup. > > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arthur Fuller" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" < > accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 2:41:29 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > > Precisely my point, Jim. This is not about a weightlifting contest, I had > no intention of this thread going there, but I did mean to distinguish > between an app that takes a month or two to write and another that takes a > year or two to write. In large part, it concerns the number of tables, > stored procedures and queries. Fair enough, but it also concerns the number > of simultaneous users and their geographical distribution. That latter > point can be huge if the firm has 40 offices in 10 countries. That > introduces significant complexites > > And none of this addresses the PITA issue (Point In Time Architecture), > which basically says that the traditional relational concepts of Insert and > Update and Delete are destructive of what data existed a moment ago. That > is a very significant problem and requires a whole lot of planning, but to > oversimplify, it means that Updates and Deletes are forbidden, and that > every table in the DB be able to handle this. That means that every table > has a pair of date fields (call them EffectiveDate and EndDate), and that > all queries respect these fields. For example, take your average > 50-year-old medical patient: she has probably had a few family physicians, > optometrists and so on, due to moving to Seattle for a new job and a year > or two later it's Denver. > > What this sort of database requires is the ability to wind the clock back > to 2002, say. That is flatly impossible with the traditional Insert, > Update, Delete model. The only way this can be handled is the PITA model: > every table has EffectiveDate and EndDate columns and every query and > stored procedure respects these columns. Who was your dentist in 2004? Who > sold you that Ford that you gave to your daughter in 2012? Where did you > live in 1999 and who was your physician at that time? > > These questions describe the fundamental problem with traditional RDMS -- > every action is destructive to what existed a moment ago. I have written > about this problem and described a solution or two in Simple-Talk.com. > Maybe I didn't cover every eventuality but I tried to cover most. Anyone > interested in these problems is invited to search simple-talk.com and see > my initial research. I make no claim to definitive research; this is a > topic for lots of contributors. I need help with taking this further. > > Arthur > > > On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > A few years ago, when working on one government project, (it was Oracle), > > the number of tables was such, that the layout of the schema covered two > > walls in my office. I honestly have no idea how many tables and queries > > were involved, today, but I remember that the print out was done so we > > could keep track of what was happening as no one on the project could > just > > remember everything off the top. > > > > Jim > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Arthur Fuller" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" < > > accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 8:42:48 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > > > > Jim Hewson (not Lawrence), > > An Access app consisting of 72 tables is not a complex app. First of all, > > we need two better words than "complex". I suggest "Rich" and "Large", > > whose terms I think I inherited from Chris Date, but it might have been > > Fabian Pascal, or even the Father of Us All, Codd (in close company I > call > > him The Coddfather). > > > > History aside, I would describe a complex app as consisting of at least > 500 > > tables, and there goes one of the main reasons why Access int its > packaged > > version falls a tad short of the mark. In specific terms, the > Relationships > > tool is woefully inadequate even with 55 tables, let alone 500. That's > when > > you need SSMS or equivalent tools -- when you need 10 relationship > diagrams > > not one, and when you need to concentrate on one aspect of the app rather > > than the whole app, and that one aspect might involve 100 tables. This is > > especially important when the team involves several programmers, and also > > when developers die or retire, and new hires have to be brought up to > > speed. > > > > I neglected to define the terms Rich and Large. Rich means there are > > hundreds of tables, many of which have a relatively few rows. Large means > > they are relatively few tables, but they contain millions of rows. It is > > also possible that a given database is both Rich and Large, but that > > happens rarely. Usually the system is one or the other. I've developed a > > couple of exceptions, for example the software that runs a nuclear plant; > > that is way different than an app for a Mom'n'Pop hardware store or a > > household renovation firm. Suppose for example that you need 584 parts to > > assemble Product XYZ, and that every single part is potentially available > > from several vendors, and that you need to check who can supply 486 of > > these parts by tomorrow. You need to interrogate their inventory, and > > suppose that nobody has 486 parts, so you have to split the order and > > ensure that the deliveries shall arrive in time to fill your orders. This > > sort of problem is not trivial. Failure could conceivably cost $750k per > > hour. > > > > I've done a lot of apps like this. It's expensive, but the development > time > > is peanuts compared to the profit if it works. Such companies understand > > this, and so do we developers. It has got to work, or millions could be > > lost in a day of down-time. Working on such projects has cost me a couple > > of marriages, because I was two days late for dinner. > > > > I'm too old to this stuff any more, but I remain fully aware of how > > difficult it is. There is definitely truth to the maxim that your > thinking > > slows as you age, and it is also true that a young buck just out of > > university hasn't the faintest glimpse of the complexity of such > problems, > > or the costs of failure. In jobs like this, failure is not an option. > > > > I have done this sort of app, using Access with a serious server using > SQL > > Server and also MySQL. 500 tables and dozens of forms and 2k stored > > procedures and queries. This stuff is non-trivial. It demands a whole lot > > of design time and a whole of development time. You do it one piece at a > > time, starting with the most financially critical. The whole project > takes > > several years, which enables you to buy a nicer car and perhaps a new > > couch. You work insane hours and eventually your spouse leaves you. > That's > > the truth. > > > > A. > > ? > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Arthur > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue May 6 18:17:24 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 23:17:24 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: References: <002401cf68d4$9b337530$d19a5f90$@mattysconsulting.com> <1472184310.40283943.1399357073456.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: <697e2173e58d4c10828dc88eef2809ed@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Thanks Jim. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and experience. If you swap "Army" for "Big Corporate X" you will also hit a lot of the same IT constraints (CoN, Security and authorisation issues etc) for any new software implementation. As you say, it can takes years and a fair bit of pushing from the C suite to makes these things happen. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2014 11:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? I thought I would tell you about my experience with Alpha v11 (A11). Alpha Anywhere (AA) is v12. First, some background. I'm an independent contractor for the federal government, specifically for the Army Research Laboratory. My work began with them six years ago - I've been working on the same project the entire time using Access exclusively. The project I'm working on is complex... 72 tables, 555 queries, 169 forms, 156 reports and about 50 UDFs. I convinced the director of the unit to purchase A11 so we could migrate the tool I created from Access in the hope we could use the web capability. A few months after it was purchased, Alpha Anywhere came out. With time constraints, deadlines, etc. I didn't get to start using A11 for a few months. After AA was released, I thought I could purchase a copy for home and ... it should be backward compatible. Not so. When I called the company to see if I could develop at work and develop at home with A11 and AA. I was told they were not compatible and an upgrade for work was needed... an additional several hundred dollars. I decided not to purchase a copy for home use. The other issue was that the Army IT folks told us Alpha anything was not authorized on any network. So... we thought I could put it on what they call a stand-alone laptop (not to be connected to the network) and do the development there. But anything that was developed, would need a "Certificate of Networthiness" (CoN) from the Army to put it on the network ... typically a one year process which takes about one year. I started going through the tutorials, pretty cool. Works as designed. I started to migrate the tool that I created. Not so cool. It converted tables, some queries and then not much else. This meant that I had to create the forms and reports from scratch. Mmmm... that's a lot of work. Two other things that need to be pointed out. One, AA creates a separate file for every table, query, form, report or anything else in a specific folder on the hard drive. Unlike Access everything is in one container - one file. Two, to migrate AA to another computer - one has to package it up and then install it, unlike Access you just need to copy a file. In the grand scheme of things, we opted not to go with A11 or AA. It seemed to be a lot of work for little benefit for our purposes. The project I'm working on morphed into something entirely different that it's original concept. Originally, we wanted to use the tool on the network at one of the training facilities. The CoN expired before it was fully implemented. Now the tool is being used in several research studies on stand-alone laptops. Jim On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 1:17 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > The only weakness to Access is that it can not just port to the > web...outside of that every feature is covered. But with the way the > New Microsoft has been advancing as of late it might now be a possibility. > > I heard that at the large Linux fest, in Bellingham, Washington, on > the last weekend, Microsoft showed up in force...and that has never > happened before anywhere. > > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Mattys" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" < > accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Sent: Monday, May 5, 2014 7:40:54 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > > I'm in my forties, still like classic Coke and Access. > We do work Access/SQL work in various departments for the some of the > largest retailers doing business in the US. > C#, WPF, and Dynamics CRM, too, but it sure isn't dead and I've > certainly enjoyed customizing Access with the Win32 API. > Your statement reminded me of Karl Peterson (vb.mvps.org). > > Note: IIRC, Arthur would prefer not to be called 'Art', though he may > have relaxed that constraint somewhat so as not to belabor the issue. > > Michael R Mattys > Mattys Consulting, LLC > www.mattysconsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav > Sent: Monday, May 5, 2014 7:19 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > > Hey All > What a bunch of old farts (like a boardroom). I guess you all still > like the classic Coke. > > Tony Septav > Nanaimo,BC > Canada > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson > Sent: May-05-14 3:06 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > > Well to be fair, Arthur has told us in the past what he sees in the > product, and why he likes it, even describing some its uses and ease > of use. He was probably trying not to be overly redundant. > > As for making the developer's life easier I doubt Arthur's life has > gotten any easier. And I bet he has lost a LOT if power and > flexibility versus building ACCDB front ends. > > I really didn't see my post - which was relaying one blogger's > viewpoint that the first step in avoiding a "sadBA" existence was > forsaking MS Access > - to which he got negative comments in a 20+ to 1 ratio - as begging > to have AA plugged again. > > Art rest assured, when we want to know more about AA (on an Access > community forum like this one? Don't hold your breath) we know you are > our man. > > On May 5, 2014 3:45 PM, "Francisco Tapia" wrote: > > > > Arthur, > > Finally read up a little on this product. if I were still an > > Access Developer why would I want to use this software? it seems to > > have nothing to do with Access. Their case study on converting an > > Access app > > > > http://alphasoftware.net/convert-an-access-application-into-a-web-appl > icatio > n-alpha-anywhere/to > > an alpha software application has as much relevance as me trying to > > convince users on the forum to use Titanium to create cross-mobile > > apps from their existing Access apps. > > > > I didn't find any compelling information on their site or in this > > case study. I would have just done the sql upsizing on my own as I > > have always done, and built the FrontEnd to be web/ios/android as > > the case > warranted. > > > > Sorry old friend, but I must confess that I don't see what the point > > is to advertise a product without any details on how a developer's > > life would be better by migrating to the new platform. > > > > > > -Francisco > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4570 / Virus Database: 3931/7440 - Release Date: > 05/04/14 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue May 6 18:47:35 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 23:47:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: References: <219211120.40900724.1399414720374.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: <1fb7afdd734e439b9d9df245f4476178@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Wow... Firstly thanks to the Jims, Bill and Arthur for a great read this morning (Tiz Wednesday AM in Oz) - That was very interesting. Arthur, I will follow up your talks later today - thanks for letting us know they are there. Bill: Have to agree with the "Effective Date" and "End Date" approach in many business situations is the best and only way to go. All 'Big Business' databases I have worked on for the past decade or more have used this approach. There generally is no performance issues as any 'working data' is called off a subset of the main data (Say a View in SQL Server terms) where the query is restricted (unless otherwise specified) to data that is valid in the requested date band. This is particularly important with tasks where you move around in time. One example is a tax rate or surcharge. These change all the time and are only effective from Date X to Y and then the change again. If you are going back in time (say to do a refund or adjustment) you need to be able to apply the correct rate for the date ranges selected. If a policy cover a whole year and the rate changes in that year, you need to be able to apply the correct pro-rata rate for the date range. There is no way in hell you are going to do something like "UPDATE GST_RATE to .15" globally and have it work. You need to have a table live (Using GST_RATE as the example here) StartDate | EndDate | Rate 1-Jan-2001 31-Dec-2001 0.05 1-Jan-2002 31-Jul-2004 0.07 1-Aug-2004 31-Dec-2006 0.85 1-Jan-2007 31-Jul-2007 0.67 Etc... Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Wednesday, 7 May 2014 8:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Well if you are backing up I wouldn't think you would worry too much about deleting tables. Deleting rows is not just about storage, it is also about performance. If you don't need the data, jettison it... and save the "big storage is cheap" rallying cry for your backup data. On May 6, 2014 6:19 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > You are right, that seems to be the latest concepts of databases. > > No records are deleted only added...they can be flagged as archived or > timestamped updates. Big online, databases do not have the time to do > real deletes or updates. For years we were always been fighting for > storage space but now we can afford to backup, backup and backup. > > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arthur Fuller" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" < > accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 2:41:29 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > > Precisely my point, Jim. This is not about a weightlifting contest, I > had no intention of this thread going there, but I did mean to > distinguish between an app that takes a month or two to write and > another that takes a year or two to write. In large part, it concerns > the number of tables, stored procedures and queries. Fair enough, but > it also concerns the number of simultaneous users and their > geographical distribution. That latter point can be huge if the firm > has 40 offices in 10 countries. That introduces significant > complexites > > And none of this addresses the PITA issue (Point In Time > Architecture), which basically says that the traditional relational > concepts of Insert and Update and Delete are destructive of what data > existed a moment ago. That is a very significant problem and requires > a whole lot of planning, but to oversimplify, it means that Updates > and Deletes are forbidden, and that every table in the DB be able to > handle this. That means that every table has a pair of date fields > (call them EffectiveDate and EndDate), and that all queries respect > these fields. For example, take your average 50-year-old medical > patient: she has probably had a few family physicians, optometrists > and so on, due to moving to Seattle for a new job and a year or two later it's Denver. > > What this sort of database requires is the ability to wind the clock > back to 2002, say. That is flatly impossible with the traditional > Insert, Update, Delete model. The only way this can be handled is the PITA model: > every table has EffectiveDate and EndDate columns and every query and > stored procedure respects these columns. Who was your dentist in 2004? > Who sold you that Ford that you gave to your daughter in 2012? Where > did you live in 1999 and who was your physician at that time? > > These questions describe the fundamental problem with traditional RDMS > -- every action is destructive to what existed a moment ago. I have > written about this problem and described a solution or two in Simple-Talk.com. > Maybe I didn't cover every eventuality but I tried to cover most. > Anyone interested in these problems is invited to search > simple-talk.com and see my initial research. I make no claim to > definitive research; this is a topic for lots of contributors. I need help with taking this further. > > Arthur > > > On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > A few years ago, when working on one government project, (it was > > Oracle), the number of tables was such, that the layout of the > > schema covered two walls in my office. I honestly have no idea how > > many tables and queries were involved, today, but I remember that > > the print out was done so we could keep track of what was happening > > as no one on the project could > just > > remember everything off the top. > > > > Jim > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Arthur Fuller" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" < > > accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 8:42:48 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > > > > Jim Hewson (not Lawrence), > > An Access app consisting of 72 tables is not a complex app. First of > > all, we need two better words than "complex". I suggest "Rich" and > > "Large", whose terms I think I inherited from Chris Date, but it > > might have been Fabian Pascal, or even the Father of Us All, Codd > > (in close company I > call > > him The Coddfather). > > > > History aside, I would describe a complex app as consisting of at > > least > 500 > > tables, and there goes one of the main reasons why Access int its > packaged > > version falls a tad short of the mark. In specific terms, the > Relationships > > tool is woefully inadequate even with 55 tables, let alone 500. > > That's > when > > you need SSMS or equivalent tools -- when you need 10 relationship > diagrams > > not one, and when you need to concentrate on one aspect of the app > > rather than the whole app, and that one aspect might involve 100 > > tables. This is especially important when the team involves several > > programmers, and also when developers die or retire, and new hires > > have to be brought up to speed. > > > > I neglected to define the terms Rich and Large. Rich means there are > > hundreds of tables, many of which have a relatively few rows. Large > > means they are relatively few tables, but they contain millions of > > rows. It is also possible that a given database is both Rich and > > Large, but that happens rarely. Usually the system is one or the > > other. I've developed a couple of exceptions, for example the > > software that runs a nuclear plant; that is way different than an > > app for a Mom'n'Pop hardware store or a household renovation firm. > > Suppose for example that you need 584 parts to assemble Product XYZ, > > and that every single part is potentially available from several > > vendors, and that you need to check who can supply 486 of these > > parts by tomorrow. You need to interrogate their inventory, and > > suppose that nobody has 486 parts, so you have to split the order > > and ensure that the deliveries shall arrive in time to fill your > > orders. This sort of problem is not trivial. Failure could conceivably cost $750k per hour. > > > > I've done a lot of apps like this. It's expensive, but the > > development > time > > is peanuts compared to the profit if it works. Such companies > > understand this, and so do we developers. It has got to work, or > > millions could be lost in a day of down-time. Working on such > > projects has cost me a couple of marriages, because I was two days late for dinner. > > > > I'm too old to this stuff any more, but I remain fully aware of how > > difficult it is. There is definitely truth to the maxim that your > thinking > > slows as you age, and it is also true that a young buck just out of > > university hasn't the faintest glimpse of the complexity of such > problems, > > or the costs of failure. In jobs like this, failure is not an option. > > > > I have done this sort of app, using Access with a serious server > > using > SQL > > Server and also MySQL. 500 tables and dozens of forms and 2k stored > > procedures and queries. This stuff is non-trivial. It demands a > > whole lot of design time and a whole of development time. You do it > > one piece at a time, starting with the most financially critical. > > The whole project > takes > > several years, which enables you to buy a nicer car and perhaps a > > new couch. You work insane hours and eventually your spouse leaves you. > That's > > the truth. > > > > A. > > ? > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Arthur > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From anita at ddisolutions.com.au Wed May 7 02:36:18 2014 From: anita at ddisolutions.com.au (Anita Smith) Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 07:36:18 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Design shenanigans Message-ID: <0B4AA61FDEF597449F7D28C41E786D961BB215E1@DDI-DC1.DDI.local> I have a small design problem that I thought I might throw out there to see if anyone has a solution: It goes like this - I have the following tables: Projects ....Sub Projects ..........Activities The problem is that not all Projects have Sub Projects so the Activities could be linked directly to the projects table as well as the Sub Project table. My initial thoughts are that each project would need at least one sub project - i.e. the 'forced' sub project is used only to link over to the project table. Now that I think a bit more, I'm not really liking that idea. What to do .... what to do? Anita Smith From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 7 03:17:54 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 07 May 2014 18:17:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Design shenanigans In-Reply-To: <0B4AA61FDEF597449F7D28C41E786D961BB215E1@DDI-DC1.DDI.local> References: <0B4AA61FDEF597449F7D28C41E786D961BB215E1@DDI-DC1.DDI.local> Message-ID: <5369EC32.30779.1731DED3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Classic Bill of Materials problem. You can have more than 3 levels in some situations with links between various levels. There are several approaches, a common one is to use a field to indicate what level the item's parent is and work with Union queries to get the relevant children for a given parent. A google on "BOM schema" will probably give you lots of ideas. -- Stuart On 7 May 2014 at 7:36, Anita Smith wrote: > I have a small design problem that I thought I might throw out there > to see if anyone has a solution: > > It goes like this - I have the following tables: > > Projects > ....Sub Projects > ..........Activities > > The problem is that not all Projects have Sub Projects so the > Activities could be linked directly to the projects table as well as > the Sub Project table. > > My initial thoughts are that each project would need at least one sub > project - i.e. the 'forced' sub project is used only to link over to > the project table. > > Now that I think a bit more, I'm not really liking that idea. > > What to do .... what to do? > > Anita Smith > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 7 03:33:45 2014 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 08:33:45 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Design shenanigans Message-ID: <2da7f7be4c8a43cd9aca19f13123a8ff@AMSPR06MB311.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Hi Anita As you probably will need much the same info for projects as for subprojects, I would have just: Projects ....Activities Then have a field in Projects to specify the ID of the parent project - will be empty for parent projects. I think this what also Stuart had in mind, though I see no reason to google on that. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Anita Smith Sendt: 7. maj 2014 09:36 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Design shenanigans I have a small design problem that I thought I might throw out there to see if anyone has a solution: It goes like this - I have the following tables: Projects ....Sub Projects ..........Activities The problem is that not all Projects have Sub Projects so the Activities could be linked directly to the projects table as well as the Sub Project table. My initial thoughts are that each project would need at least one sub project - i.e. the 'forced' sub project is used only to link over to the project table. Now that I think a bit more, I'm not really liking that idea. What to do .... what to do? Anita Smith From anita at ddisolutions.com.au Wed May 7 08:24:52 2014 From: anita at ddisolutions.com.au (Anita Smith) Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 13:24:52 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Design shenanigans In-Reply-To: <2da7f7be4c8a43cd9aca19f13123a8ff@AMSPR06MB311.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> References: <2da7f7be4c8a43cd9aca19f13123a8ff@AMSPR06MB311.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <0B4AA61FDEF597449F7D28C41E786D961BB2165A@DDI-DC1.DDI.local> Gustav, Sounds like a plan that could work. I'll sleep on it. Anita Smith Hi Anita As you probably will need much the same info for projects as for subprojects, I would have just: Projects ....Activities Then have a field in Projects to specify the ID of the parent project - will be empty for parent projects. I think this what also Stuart had in mind, though I see no reason to google on that. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Anita Smith Sendt: 7. maj 2014 09:36 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Design shenanigans I have a small design problem that I thought I might throw out there to see if anyone has a solution: It goes like this - I have the following tables: Projects ....Sub Projects ..........Activities The problem is that not all Projects have Sub Projects so the Activities could be linked directly to the projects table as well as the Sub Project table. My initial thoughts are that each project would need at least one sub project - i.e. the 'forced' sub project is used only to link over to the project table. Now that I think a bit more, I'm not really liking that idea. What to do .... what to do? Anita Smith -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed May 7 10:08:56 2014 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 08:08:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Design shenanigans In-Reply-To: <0B4AA61FDEF597449F7D28C41E786D961BB215E1@DDI-DC1.DDI.local> References: <0B4AA61FDEF597449F7D28C41E786D961BB215E1@DDI-DC1.DDI.local> Message-ID: Anita, That's why, when I designed a work tracking system for my current contract, I didn't allow sub-projects. I have projects and tasks. Tasks can have child tasks which point back to their parents, and a top level task doesn't have to be linked to a project at all. However, the client also has work requests, and we decided that those had to be created from a task level. Charlotte On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 12:36 AM, Anita Smith wrote: > I have a small design problem that I thought I might throw out there to > see if anyone has a solution: > > It goes like this - I have the following tables: > > Projects > ....Sub Projects > ..........Activities > > The problem is that not all Projects have Sub Projects so the Activities > could be linked directly to the projects table as well as the Sub Project > table. > > My initial thoughts are that each project would need at least one sub > project - i.e. the 'forced' sub project is used only to link over to the > project table. > > Now that I think a bit more, I'm not really liking that idea. > > What to do .... what to do? > > Anita Smith > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed May 7 11:19:48 2014 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 12:19:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <1fb7afdd734e439b9d9df245f4476178@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <219211120.40900724.1399414720374.JavaMail.root@cds018> <1fb7afdd734e439b9d9df245f4476178@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Darryl, Nice example. Thanks for offering it. Arthur > There is no way in hell you are going to do something like "UPDATE > GST_RATE to .15" globally and have it work. > > You need to have a table live (Using GST_RATE as the example here) > > StartDate | EndDate | Rate > 1-Jan-2001 31-Dec-2001 0.05 > 1-Jan-2002 31-Jul-2004 0.07 > 1-Aug-2004 31-Dec-2006 0.85 > 1-Jan-2007 31-Jul-2007 0.67 > Etc... > > Cheers > Darryl From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed May 7 11:38:05 2014 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 12:38:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Design shenanigans In-Reply-To: References: <0B4AA61FDEF597449F7D28C41E786D961BB215E1@DDI-DC1.DDI.local> Message-ID: Anita et. al. I agree what in design terms, there is no apparent advantage to the middle level. I use a Time-Billing system originally based on an example supplied with Access. My version has evolved some from its original parent, but I still found it easier, for example when tracking an app requiring months to write, to map the projects to milestones. To put it another way, most if not all sub-projects are actually Critical Path tasks on the Big Project path. And because I tend to favour the KISS principle, that's the path I chose. Arthur ? From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 7 11:59:12 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 10:59:12 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <1fb7afdd734e439b9d9df245f4476178@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <2069629586.41482178.1399481952438.JavaMail.root@cds018> I have always had a function within a database that sets the GST rate and that function is triggered the moment a new invoice is created. If somehow the rates became corrupted in some table, just loading it and running a recalculation would fix it. In the function it just uses a cascading "if" statement; aircode: if invoicedate > 20070730 gst = 0.67 else if invoicedate > 20061230 gst = 0.85 ... return gst Everything is controlled around the invoice creation date and that date is system managed. I always hard code these and load the library into high memory because if this invoicing is at the front counter the POS responses must be very fast. Note: In the region I have worked, effective or active date do not control the GST rate and the manager/store owner must pay taxes on the creation date regardless if the effective date is years away...an owner can always declare a capital loss if an invoice is not paid by the effective date but that is the only recourse. Over the years I have had many new companies challenge me on this but their accountants have always confirmed my position. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Collins" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 4:47:35 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Wow... Firstly thanks to the Jims, Bill and Arthur for a great read this morning (Tiz Wednesday AM in Oz) - That was very interesting. Arthur, I will follow up your talks later today - thanks for letting us know they are there. Bill: Have to agree with the "Effective Date" and "End Date" approach in many business situations is the best and only way to go. All 'Big Business' databases I have worked on for the past decade or more have used this approach. There generally is no performance issues as any 'working data' is called off a subset of the main data (Say a View in SQL Server terms) where the query is restricted (unless otherwise specified) to data that is valid in the requested date band. This is particularly important with tasks where you move around in time. One example is a tax rate or surcharge. These change all the time and are only effective from Date X to Y and then the change again. If you are going back in time (say to do a refund or adjustment) you need to be able to apply the correct rate for the date ranges selected. If a policy cover a whole year and the rate changes in that year, you need to be able to apply the correct pro-rata rate for the date range. There is no way in hell you are going to do something like "UPDATE GST_RATE to .15" globally and have it work. You need to have a table live (Using GST_RATE as the example here) StartDate | EndDate | Rate 1-Jan-2001 31-Dec-2001 0.05 1-Jan-2002 31-Jul-2004 0.07 1-Aug-2004 31-Dec-2006 0.85 1-Jan-2007 31-Jul-2007 0.67 Etc... Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Wednesday, 7 May 2014 8:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Well if you are backing up I wouldn't think you would worry too much about deleting tables. Deleting rows is not just about storage, it is also about performance. If you don't need the data, jettison it... and save the "big storage is cheap" rallying cry for your backup data. On May 6, 2014 6:19 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > You are right, that seems to be the latest concepts of databases. > > No records are deleted only added...they can be flagged as archived or > timestamped updates. Big online, databases do not have the time to do > real deletes or updates. For years we were always been fighting for > storage space but now we can afford to backup, backup and backup. > > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arthur Fuller" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" < > accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 2:41:29 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > > Precisely my point, Jim. This is not about a weightlifting contest, I > had no intention of this thread going there, but I did mean to > distinguish between an app that takes a month or two to write and > another that takes a year or two to write. In large part, it concerns > the number of tables, stored procedures and queries. Fair enough, but > it also concerns the number of simultaneous users and their > geographical distribution. That latter point can be huge if the firm > has 40 offices in 10 countries. That introduces significant > complexites > > And none of this addresses the PITA issue (Point In Time > Architecture), which basically says that the traditional relational > concepts of Insert and Update and Delete are destructive of what data > existed a moment ago. That is a very significant problem and requires > a whole lot of planning, but to oversimplify, it means that Updates > and Deletes are forbidden, and that every table in the DB be able to > handle this. That means that every table has a pair of date fields > (call them EffectiveDate and EndDate), and that all queries respect > these fields. For example, take your average 50-year-old medical > patient: she has probably had a few family physicians, optometrists > and so on, due to moving to Seattle for a new job and a year or two later it's Denver. > > What this sort of database requires is the ability to wind the clock > back to 2002, say. That is flatly impossible with the traditional > Insert, Update, Delete model. The only way this can be handled is the PITA model: > every table has EffectiveDate and EndDate columns and every query and > stored procedure respects these columns. Who was your dentist in 2004? > Who sold you that Ford that you gave to your daughter in 2012? Where > did you live in 1999 and who was your physician at that time? > > These questions describe the fundamental problem with traditional RDMS > -- every action is destructive to what existed a moment ago. I have > written about this problem and described a solution or two in Simple-Talk.com. > Maybe I didn't cover every eventuality but I tried to cover most. > Anyone interested in these problems is invited to search > simple-talk.com and see my initial research. I make no claim to > definitive research; this is a topic for lots of contributors. I need help with taking this further. > > Arthur > > > On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > A few years ago, when working on one government project, (it was > > Oracle), the number of tables was such, that the layout of the > > schema covered two walls in my office. I honestly have no idea how > > many tables and queries were involved, today, but I remember that > > the print out was done so we could keep track of what was happening > > as no one on the project could > just > > remember everything off the top. > > > > Jim > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Arthur Fuller" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" < > > accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 8:42:48 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > > > > Jim Hewson (not Lawrence), > > An Access app consisting of 72 tables is not a complex app. First of > > all, we need two better words than "complex". I suggest "Rich" and > > "Large", whose terms I think I inherited from Chris Date, but it > > might have been Fabian Pascal, or even the Father of Us All, Codd > > (in close company I > call > > him The Coddfather). > > > > History aside, I would describe a complex app as consisting of at > > least > 500 > > tables, and there goes one of the main reasons why Access int its > packaged > > version falls a tad short of the mark. In specific terms, the > Relationships > > tool is woefully inadequate even with 55 tables, let alone 500. > > That's > when > > you need SSMS or equivalent tools -- when you need 10 relationship > diagrams > > not one, and when you need to concentrate on one aspect of the app > > rather than the whole app, and that one aspect might involve 100 > > tables. This is especially important when the team involves several > > programmers, and also when developers die or retire, and new hires > > have to be brought up to speed. > > > > I neglected to define the terms Rich and Large. Rich means there are > > hundreds of tables, many of which have a relatively few rows. Large > > means they are relatively few tables, but they contain millions of > > rows. It is also possible that a given database is both Rich and > > Large, but that happens rarely. Usually the system is one or the > > other. I've developed a couple of exceptions, for example the > > software that runs a nuclear plant; that is way different than an > > app for a Mom'n'Pop hardware store or a household renovation firm. > > Suppose for example that you need 584 parts to assemble Product XYZ, > > and that every single part is potentially available from several > > vendors, and that you need to check who can supply 486 of these > > parts by tomorrow. You need to interrogate their inventory, and > > suppose that nobody has 486 parts, so you have to split the order > > and ensure that the deliveries shall arrive in time to fill your > > orders. This sort of problem is not trivial. Failure could conceivably cost $750k per hour. > > > > I've done a lot of apps like this. It's expensive, but the > > development > time > > is peanuts compared to the profit if it works. Such companies > > understand this, and so do we developers. It has got to work, or > > millions could be lost in a day of down-time. Working on such > > projects has cost me a couple of marriages, because I was two days late for dinner. > > > > I'm too old to this stuff any more, but I remain fully aware of how > > difficult it is. There is definitely truth to the maxim that your > thinking > > slows as you age, and it is also true that a young buck just out of > > university hasn't the faintest glimpse of the complexity of such > problems, > > or the costs of failure. In jobs like this, failure is not an option. > > > > I have done this sort of app, using Access with a serious server > > using > SQL > > Server and also MySQL. 500 tables and dozens of forms and 2k stored > > procedures and queries. This stuff is non-trivial. It demands a > > whole lot of design time and a whole of development time. You do it > > one piece at a time, starting with the most financially critical. > > The whole project > takes > > several years, which enables you to buy a nicer car and perhaps a > > new couch. You work insane hours and eventually your spouse leaves you. > That's > > the truth. > > > > A. > > ? > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Arthur > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk Wed May 7 12:20:09 2014 From: jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk (James Button) Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 18:20:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Design shenanigans In-Reply-To: References: <0B4AA61FDEF597449F7D28C41E786D961BB215E1@DDI-DC1.DDI.local> Message-ID: Then again, is there a substantial advantage in processing etc, to having the project and subproject levels when you could have a single table with a code of (say) 000 to indicate that the entry is a 'project' level one and just treat all entries as subprojects with reporting processes summarizing as needed. Or if using subprojects, then I would expect you to have some means of ordering the subprojects, so use the lowest possible ordering code (maybe null) to indicate that the entry is the only one in a project, and start multiple ones with the next code JimB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 4:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Design shenanigans Anita, That's why, when I designed a work tracking system for my current contract, I didn't allow sub-projects. I have projects and tasks. Tasks can have child tasks which point back to their parents, and a top level task doesn't have to be linked to a project at all. However, the client also has work requests, and we decided that those had to be created from a task level. Charlotte On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 12:36 AM, Anita Smith wrote: > I have a small design problem that I thought I might throw out there to > see if anyone has a solution: > > It goes like this - I have the following tables: > > Projects > ....Sub Projects > ..........Activities > > The problem is that not all Projects have Sub Projects so the Activities > could be linked directly to the projects table as well as the Sub Project > table. > > My initial thoughts are that each project would need at least one sub > project - i.e. the 'forced' sub project is used only to link over to the > project table. > > Now that I think a bit more, I'm not really liking that idea. > > What to do .... what to do? > > Anita Smith > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 7 12:36:57 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 11:36:57 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Design shenanigans In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <869422392.41517547.1399484217225.JavaMail.root@cds018> I would agree with that method. Let the query gather and layout the data using the standard reciprocal call. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Button" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:20:09 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Design shenanigans Then again, is there a substantial advantage in processing etc, to having the project and subproject levels when you could have a single table with a code of (say) 000 to indicate that the entry is a 'project' level one and just treat all entries as subprojects with reporting processes summarizing as needed. Or if using subprojects, then I would expect you to have some means of ordering the subprojects, so use the lowest possible ordering code (maybe null) to indicate that the entry is the only one in a project, and start multiple ones with the next code JimB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 4:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Design shenanigans Anita, That's why, when I designed a work tracking system for my current contract, I didn't allow sub-projects. I have projects and tasks. Tasks can have child tasks which point back to their parents, and a top level task doesn't have to be linked to a project at all. However, the client also has work requests, and we decided that those had to be created from a task level. Charlotte On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 12:36 AM, Anita Smith wrote: > I have a small design problem that I thought I might throw out there to > see if anyone has a solution: > > It goes like this - I have the following tables: > > Projects > ....Sub Projects > ..........Activities > > The problem is that not all Projects have Sub Projects so the Activities > could be linked directly to the projects table as well as the Sub Project > table. > > My initial thoughts are that each project would need at least one sub > project - i.e. the 'forced' sub project is used only to link over to the > project table. > > Now that I think a bit more, I'm not really liking that idea. > > What to do .... what to do? > > Anita Smith > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed May 7 12:40:22 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 13:40:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Design shenanigans In-Reply-To: References: <0B4AA61FDEF597449F7D28C41E786D961BB215E1@DDI-DC1.DDI.local> Message-ID: > Anita et. al. Does this mean she was not allowed to leave the Project table, or that she was just very hungry? From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed May 7 13:05:22 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 14:05:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Design shenanigans In-Reply-To: References: <0B4AA61FDEF597449F7D28C41E786D961BB215E1@DDI-DC1.DDI.local> Message-ID: I think this depends. What are sub projects anyway and why are they needed? I have never heard of them. Are they just groups of activities into project milestones? A slight digression, does anyone know what to do when Lean dictates that a single activity or group of activities benefits several projects? For example, hiring interns, bid process, Franchisee Marketing campaigns, production of user manuals, etc. This would make the WBS a challenge, no? On May 7, 2014 1:21 PM, "James Button" wrote: > Then again, is there a substantial advantage in processing etc, to having > the > project and subproject levels when you could have a single table with a > code of > (say) 000 to indicate that the entry is a 'project' level one and just > treat all > entries as subprojects with reporting processes summarizing as needed. > Or if using subprojects, then I would expect you to have some means of > ordering > the subprojects, so use the lowest possible ordering code (maybe null) to > indicate that the entry is the only one in a project, and start multiple > ones > with the next code > > JimB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 4:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Design shenanigans > > Anita, > > That's why, when I designed a work tracking system for my current contract, > I didn't allow sub-projects. I have projects and tasks. Tasks can have > child tasks which point back to their parents, and a top level task doesn't > have to be linked to a project at all. However, the client also has work > requests, and we decided that those had to be created from a task level. > > Charlotte > > > On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 12:36 AM, Anita Smith >wrote: > > > I have a small design problem that I thought I might throw out there to > > see if anyone has a solution: > > > > It goes like this - I have the following tables: > > > > Projects > > ....Sub Projects > > ..........Activities > > > > The problem is that not all Projects have Sub Projects so the Activities > > could be linked directly to the projects table as well as the Sub Project > > table. > > > > My initial thoughts are that each project would need at least one sub > > project - i.e. the 'forced' sub project is used only to link over to the > > project table. > > > > Now that I think a bit more, I'm not really liking that idea. > > > > What to do .... what to do? > > > > Anita Smith > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 7 16:52:41 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 08 May 2014 07:52:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <2069629586.41482178.1399481952438.JavaMail.root@cds018> References: <1fb7afdd734e439b9d9df245f4476178@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <2069629586.41482178.1399481952438.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: <536AAB29.11190.1A1BD38C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> > load the library into "high memory" ? Still using 16bit MS DOS, HIMEM.SYS and QB45 are we? ;-) -- Stuart On 7 May 2014 at 10:59, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Everything is controlled around the invoice creation date and that > date is system managed. I always hard code these and load the library > into high memory because if this invoicing is at the front counter the > POS responses must be very fast. > From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed May 7 16:59:42 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 17:59:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <536AAB29.11190.1A1BD38C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <1fb7afdd734e439b9d9df245f4476178@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <2069629586.41482178.1399481952438.JavaMail.root@cds018> <536AAB29.11190.1A1BD38C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <04a301cf6a3f$b3b15160$1b13f420$@gmail.com> I love the abbreviation POS ... Most POS systems I have seen are a POS. (Not the ones I build of course, no, uh uh.) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 5:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > load the library into "high memory" ? Still using 16bit MS DOS, HIMEM.SYS and QB45 are we? ;-) -- Stuart On 7 May 2014 at 10:59, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Everything is controlled around the invoice creation date and that > date is system managed. I always hard code these and load the library > into high memory because if this invoicing is at the front counter the > POS responses must be very fast. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 7 17:18:11 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 08 May 2014 08:18:11 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <04a301cf6a3f$b3b15160$1b13f420$@gmail.com> References: <1fb7afdd734e439b9d9df245f4476178@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <536AAB29.11190.1A1BD38C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <04a301cf6a3f$b3b15160$1b13f420$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <536AB123.22837.1A332BAB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Yep, I always smile at that one, just like PITA. Point In Time Architecture - Pain In The A** -- Stuart On 7 May 2014 at 17:59, Bill Benson wrote: > I love the abbreviation POS ... Most POS systems I have seen are a > POS. (Not the ones I build of course, no, uh uh.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 5:53 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business > use Access? > > > load the library into "high memory" ? > > Still using 16bit MS DOS, HIMEM.SYS and QB45 are we? > > ;-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 7 May 2014 at 10:59, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Everything is controlled around the invoice creation date and that > > date is system managed. I always hard code these and load the > > library into high memory because if this invoicing is at the front > > counter the POS responses must be very fast. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 7 22:13:07 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 21:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <536AAB29.11190.1A1BD38C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <2118926530.41909086.1399518787295.JavaMail.root@cds018> Hi Stuart: You must be an old fart if you can remember that. ;-) Even some of these modern OSs and languages still need a bit of encouragement to load and stay. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 2:52:41 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > load the library into "high memory" ? Still using 16bit MS DOS, HIMEM.SYS and QB45 are we? ;-) -- Stuart On 7 May 2014 at 10:59, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Everything is controlled around the invoice creation date and that > date is system managed. I always hard code these and load the library > into high memory because if this invoicing is at the front counter the > POS responses must be very fast. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 7 22:14:26 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 21:14:26 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <04a301cf6a3f$b3b15160$1b13f420$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <493053034.41909505.1399518866376.JavaMail.root@cds018> Hi Bill: :-) Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Benson" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 2:59:42 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? I love the abbreviation POS ... Most POS systems I have seen are a POS. (Not the ones I build of course, no, uh uh.) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 5:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > load the library into "high memory" ? Still using 16bit MS DOS, HIMEM.SYS and QB45 are we? ;-) -- Stuart On 7 May 2014 at 10:59, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Everything is controlled around the invoice creation date and that > date is system managed. I always hard code these and load the library > into high memory because if this invoicing is at the front counter the > POS responses must be very fast. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed May 7 23:24:37 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 00:24:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <2118926530.41909086.1399518787295.JavaMail.root@cds018> References: <536AAB29.11190.1A1BD38C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <2118926530.41909086.1399518787295.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: <051401cf6a75$6cef3e50$46cdbaf0$@gmail.com> Well we know why the expression is When Hell Freezes Over, rather than When Excel Freezes Over - the latter wouldn't be a very convincing measure of lengthy duration... ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 11:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Hi Stuart: You must be an old fart if you can remember that. ;-) Even some of these modern OSs and languages still need a bit of encouragement to load and stay. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 2:52:41 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > load the library into "high memory" ? Still using 16bit MS DOS, HIMEM.SYS and QB45 are we? ;-) -- Stuart On 7 May 2014 at 10:59, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Everything is controlled around the invoice creation date and that > date is system managed. I always hard code these and load the library > into high memory because if this invoicing is at the front counter the > POS responses must be very fast. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed May 7 23:46:08 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 04:46:08 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <051401cf6a75$6cef3e50$46cdbaf0$@gmail.com> References: <536AAB29.11190.1A1BD38C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <2118926530.41909086.1399518787295.JavaMail.root@cds018> <051401cf6a75$6cef3e50$46cdbaf0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: "Excel Freezes Over"... hehehehe.... Nice one Bill. ;) Wow... "HIMEM.SYS". Bloody hell. I haven't thought about that in decades!! Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2014 2:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Well we know why the expression is When Hell Freezes Over, rather than When Excel Freezes Over - the latter wouldn't be a very convincing measure of lengthy duration... ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 11:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Hi Stuart: You must be an old fart if you can remember that. ;-) Even some of these modern OSs and languages still need a bit of encouragement to load and stay. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 2:52:41 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > load the library into "high memory" ? Still using 16bit MS DOS, HIMEM.SYS and QB45 are we? ;-) -- Stuart On 7 May 2014 at 10:59, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Everything is controlled around the invoice creation date and that > date is system managed. I always hard code these and load the library > into high memory because if this invoicing is at the front counter the > POS responses must be very fast. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Thu May 8 00:07:27 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 01:07:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: References: <536AAB29.11190.1A1BD38C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <2118926530.41909086.1399518787295.JavaMail.root@cds018> <051401cf6a75$6cef3e50$46cdbaf0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <051501cf6a7b$68ff30b0$3afd9210$@gmail.com> This is related in a weird tangential way to the direction of "old farts" - not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoDNcLZIfwY Gripping and surreal! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 12:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? "Excel Freezes Over"... hehehehe.... Nice one Bill. ;) Wow... "HIMEM.SYS". Bloody hell. I haven't thought about that in decades!! Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2014 2:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Well we know why the expression is When Hell Freezes Over, rather than When Excel Freezes Over - the latter wouldn't be a very convincing measure of lengthy duration... ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 11:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Hi Stuart: You must be an old fart if you can remember that. ;-) Even some of these modern OSs and languages still need a bit of encouragement to load and stay. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 2:52:41 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > load the library into "high memory" ? Still using 16bit MS DOS, HIMEM.SYS and QB45 are we? ;-) -- Stuart On 7 May 2014 at 10:59, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Everything is controlled around the invoice creation date and that > date is system managed. I always hard code these and load the library > into high memory because if this invoicing is at the front counter the > POS responses must be very fast. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Thu May 8 00:38:42 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 01:38:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: <051501cf6a7b$68ff30b0$3afd9210$@gmail.com> References: <536AAB29.11190.1A1BD38C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <2118926530.41909086.1399518787295.JavaMail.root@cds018> <051401cf6a75$6cef3e50$46cdbaf0$@gmail.com> <051501cf6a7b$68ff30b0$3afd9210$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <051601cf6a7f$c67dfc90$5379f5b0$@gmail.com> Full disclosure, Brooke Greenberg died at age 20 in late Oct-2013, not having aged or grown physically or, seemingly, emotionally / mentally, since baby-hood. But she had a very aware, vibrant personality even though her mind had not developed. Very sad, RIP - but a wonderful, loving family for sure. But staying a baby is one answer to the pain of becoming an old fart. Not sure what I would choose, to never age thus never become fulfilled as a human being... or to die after losing it all and playing with dolls or cussing everyone that walks past me in the nursing home for the last 10 years of my life. I think... the former. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Benson [mailto:bensonforums at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 1:07 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? This is related in a weird tangential way to the direction of "old farts" - not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoDNcLZIfwY Gripping and surreal! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 12:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? "Excel Freezes Over"... hehehehe.... Nice one Bill. ;) Wow... "HIMEM.SYS". Bloody hell. I haven't thought about that in decades!! Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2014 2:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Well we know why the expression is When Hell Freezes Over, rather than When Excel Freezes Over - the latter wouldn't be a very convincing measure of lengthy duration... ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 11:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Hi Stuart: You must be an old fart if you can remember that. ;-) Even some of these modern OSs and languages still need a bit of encouragement to load and stay. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 2:52:41 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > load the library into "high memory" ? Still using 16bit MS DOS, HIMEM.SYS and QB45 are we? ;-) -- Stuart On 7 May 2014 at 10:59, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Everything is controlled around the invoice creation date and that > date is system managed. I always hard code these and load the library > into high memory because if this invoicing is at the front counter the > POS responses must be very fast. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From greggs at msn.com Thu May 8 07:43:45 2014 From: greggs at msn.com (Gregg Steinbrenner) Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 14:43:45 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Hey, Access Developers Discussion And Problem Solvin Message-ID: <201405081243.s48ChrmR028417@databaseadvisors.com> http://norwexhealthycleaning.com/remember.php?vhgvzemmf1956mq Gregg Steinbrenner greggs at msn.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu May 8 08:01:16 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 08 May 2014 23:01:16 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Hey, Access Developers Discussion And Problem Solvin In-Reply-To: <201405081243.s48ChrmR028417@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201405081243.s48ChrmR028417@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <536B801C.14967.1D5BA8B7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> We've got a spammer on the list! "This web page at norwexhealthycleaning.com has been reported as a web forgery and has been blocked based on your security preferences." On 8 May 2014 at 14:43, Gregg Steinbrenner wrote: > http://norwexhealthycleaning.com/remember.php?vhgvzemmf1956mq > > Gregg Steinbrenner > greggs at msn.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Thu May 8 09:15:05 2014 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Thu, 08 May 2014 10:15:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: References: <1783606434.40776083.1399404676740.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: <536B9169.5000805@torchlake.com> Thank you, Arthur, for showing me (once again) something I had not thought of. I will incorporate that concept of the Point in Time into my work from now on. TNF Tina Norris Fields tinanfields-at-torchlake-dot-com 231-322-2787 On 5/6/2014 5:41 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > And none of this addresses the PITA issue (Point In Time Architecture), > which basically says that the traditional relational concepts of Insert and > Update and Delete are destructive of what data existed a moment ago. That > is a very significant problem and requires a whole lot of planning, but to > oversimplify, it means that Updates and Deletes are forbidden, and that > every table in the DB be able to handle this. That means that every table > has a pair of date fields (call them EffectiveDate and EndDate), and that > all queries respect these fields. For example, take your average > 50-year-old medical patient: she has probably had a few family physicians, > optometrists and so on, due to moving to Seattle for a new job and a year > or two later it's Denver. > > What this sort of database requires is the ability to wind the clock back > to 2002, say. That is flatly impossible with the traditional Insert, > Update, Delete model. The only way this can be handled is the PITA model: > every table has EffectiveDate and EndDate columns and every query and > stored procedure respects these columns. Who was your dentist in 2004? Who > sold you that Ford that you gave to your daughter in 2012? Where did you > live in 1999 and who was your physician at that time? > > > > Arthur > > > From carbonnb at gmail.com Thu May 8 10:12:41 2014 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 11:12:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Hey, Access Developers Discussion And Problem Solvin In-Reply-To: <536B801C.14967.1D5BA8B7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201405081243.s48ChrmR028417@databaseadvisors.com> <536B801C.14967.1D5BA8B7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Taken care of. On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:01 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > We've got a spammer on the list! > > > "This web page at norwexhealthycleaning.com has been reported as a web forgery and has > been blocked based on your security preferences." > > > > On 8 May 2014 at 14:43, Gregg Steinbrenner wrote: > >> http://norwexhealthycleaning.com/remember.php?vhgvzemmf1956mq >> >> Gregg Steinbrenner >> greggs at msn.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 8 13:01:22 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 12:01:22 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1523189719.42364011.1399572082178.JavaMail.root@cds018> Well, how else could you move you LAN drivers to their appropriate locations and secure a few hundred bytes for network traffic buffering? ;-) Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Collins" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 9:46:08 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? "Excel Freezes Over"... hehehehe.... Nice one Bill. ;) Wow... "HIMEM.SYS". Bloody hell. I haven't thought about that in decades!! Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2014 2:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Well we know why the expression is When Hell Freezes Over, rather than When Excel Freezes Over - the latter wouldn't be a very convincing measure of lengthy duration... ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 11:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? Hi Stuart: You must be an old fart if you can remember that. ;-) Even some of these modern OSs and languages still need a bit of encouragement to load and stay. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 2:52:41 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should Business use Access? > load the library into "high memory" ? Still using 16bit MS DOS, HIMEM.SYS and QB45 are we? ;-) -- Stuart On 7 May 2014 at 10:59, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Everything is controlled around the invoice creation date and that > date is system managed. I always hard code these and load the library > into high memory because if this invoicing is at the front counter the > POS responses must be very fast. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri May 9 10:01:27 2014 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 08:01:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Unused Objects Message-ID: Dear List: I need to clean up a couple of projects that I know have unused objects in them like queries. And maybe some modules. Is there a way to identify these unused objects? TIA Rocky From michael at mattysconsulting.com Fri May 9 10:31:27 2014 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 11:31:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Unused Objects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00e901cf6b9b$bfcade00$3f609a00$@mattysconsulting.com> Hi Rocky, Download this: www.accessdependencychecker.com Michael R Mattys Mattys Consulting, LLC www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 9, 2014 11:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Unused Objects Dear List: I need to clean up a couple of projects that I know have unused objects in them like queries. And maybe some modules. Is there a way to identify these unused objects? TIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri May 9 10:30:01 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 11:30:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Unused Objects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can use Rick Fisher's Find and Replace: www.rickworld.com There is a cross reference utility that comes along with that, and as part of that, to report only objects that are not reference. Note that you'll need to do multiple passes i.e. query is referenced by a form used no where, 1st pass reports the form, which you delete. 2nd pass would then catch the query. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 09, 2014 11:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Unused Objects Dear List: I need to clean up a couple of projects that I know have unused objects in them like queries. And maybe some modules. Is there a way to identify these unused objects? TIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Mon May 12 05:13:16 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 06:13:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How to update the Changed field in a table Message-ID: <000001cf6dca$cbaa7100$62ff5300$@gmail.com> This may be a good use of class modules. I have bound controls on a form which is bound to a table. I was hoping to have some sort of form level validation, as opposed to field level validation, but it seems that when a form is on a record, that any change made in a field is causing a change in that field. and there is no resetting back to its old value based on field level validation or confirmation - unlike unbound controls, which I can let anything the user does to them occur until ready to save the record? I want particularly, not to stamped the changed date with each and every edit, but to 1) Only stamp the record if the user saves or exits the form 2) Only stamp it once Admittedly I have NEVER used bound controls, and maybe some of this behavior is already inherent in Access. Can someone tell me what they customarily do in this need? From Lambert.Heenan at aig.com Mon May 12 10:20:05 2014 From: Lambert.Heenan at aig.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 11:20:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How to update the Changed field in a table In-Reply-To: <000001cf6dca$cbaa7100$62ff5300$@gmail.com> References: <000001cf6dca$cbaa7100$62ff5300$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Bill, Bound forms are intended to make it easy to save the data without any code. Moving from one record to another, or closing the form will cause the data to be saved. However, you can still do from level validation. Just to it in the form's BeforeUpdate event. There you can do any validation you choose, and cancel the saving of data simply by setting the Event Proc's Cancel parameter to True. You can also get at the old values of bound controls if you need to by referencing the control .OldValue property. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 6:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] How to update the Changed field in a table This may be a good use of class modules. I have bound controls on a form which is bound to a table. I was hoping to have some sort of form level validation, as opposed to field level validation, but it seems that when a form is on a record, that any change made in a field is causing a change in that field. and there is no resetting back to its old value based on field level validation or confirmation - unlike unbound controls, which I can let anything the user does to them occur until ready to save the record? I want particularly, not to stamped the changed date with each and every edit, but to 1) Only stamp the record if the user saves or exits the form 2) Only stamp it once Admittedly I have NEVER used bound controls, and maybe some of this behavior is already inherent in Access. Can someone tell me what they customarily do in this need? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Mon May 12 10:47:05 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 11:47:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How to update the Changed field in a table In-Reply-To: References: <000001cf6dca$cbaa7100$62ff5300$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <007f01cf6df9$6d8ff930$48afeb90$@gmail.com> I thought about the oldvalue, but figured that this might get replaced if they make two edits to the same control before leaving the record. Maybe not, let me play with it. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 11:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How to update the Changed field in a table Bill, Bound forms are intended to make it easy to save the data without any code. Moving from one record to another, or closing the form will cause the data to be saved. However, you can still do from level validation. Just to it in the form's BeforeUpdate event. There you can do any validation you choose, and cancel the saving of data simply by setting the Event Proc's Cancel parameter to True. You can also get at the old values of bound controls if you need to by referencing the control .OldValue property. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 6:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] How to update the Changed field in a table This may be a good use of class modules. I have bound controls on a form which is bound to a table. I was hoping to have some sort of form level validation, as opposed to field level validation, but it seems that when a form is on a record, that any change made in a field is causing a change in that field. and there is no resetting back to its old value based on field level validation or confirmation - unlike unbound controls, which I can let anything the user does to them occur until ready to save the record? I want particularly, not to stamped the changed date with each and every edit, but to 1) Only stamp the record if the user saves or exits the form 2) Only stamp it once Admittedly I have NEVER used bound controls, and maybe some of this behavior is already inherent in Access. Can someone tell me what they customarily do in this need? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Tue May 13 12:18:11 2014 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 13:18:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Design shenanigans In-Reply-To: References: <0B4AA61FDEF597449F7D28C41E786D961BB215E1@DDI-DC1.DDI.local> Message-ID: Did my questions get missed? Did I miss someone's response? On May 7, 2014 2:06 PM, "Bill Benson" wrote: > I think this depends. What are sub projects anyway and why are they needed? > I have never heard of them. Are they just groups of activities into project > milestones? > > A slight digression, does anyone know what to do when Lean dictates that a > single activity or group of activities benefits several projects? For > example, hiring interns, bid process, Franchisee Marketing campaigns, > production of user manuals, etc. This would make the WBS a challenge, no? > On May 7, 2014 1:21 PM, "James Button" > wrote: > > > Then again, is there a substantial advantage in processing etc, to having > > the > > project and subproject levels when you could have a single table with a > > code of > > (say) 000 to indicate that the entry is a 'project' level one and just > > treat all > > entries as subprojects with reporting processes summarizing as needed. > > Or if using subprojects, then I would expect you to have some means of > > ordering > > the subprojects, so use the lowest possible ordering code (maybe null) to > > indicate that the entry is the only one in a project, and start multiple > > ones > > with the next code > > > > JimB > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 4:09 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Design shenanigans > > > > Anita, > > > > That's why, when I designed a work tracking system for my current > contract, > > I didn't allow sub-projects. I have projects and tasks. Tasks can have > > child tasks which point back to their parents, and a top level task > doesn't > > have to be linked to a project at all. However, the client also has work > > requests, and we decided that those had to be created from a task level. > > > > Charlotte > > > > > > On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 12:36 AM, Anita Smith > >wrote: > > > > > I have a small design problem that I thought I might throw out there to > > > see if anyone has a solution: > > > > > > It goes like this - I have the following tables: > > > > > > Projects > > > ....Sub Projects > > > ..........Activities > > > > > > The problem is that not all Projects have Sub Projects so the > Activities > > > could be linked directly to the projects table as well as the Sub > Project > > > table. > > > > > > My initial thoughts are that each project would need at least one sub > > > project - i.e. the 'forced' sub project is used only to link over to > the > > > project table. > > > > > > Now that I think a bit more, I'm not really liking that idea. > > > > > > What to do .... what to do? > > > > > > Anita Smith > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bensonforums at gmail.com Fri May 16 00:38:52 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 01:38:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The most obscure question - alt coded symbol in a query result (check mark)? Message-ID: <016e01cf70c9$1f8d8720$5ea89560$@gmail.com> I can think of some other ways to do this but I would like your input. I have a listbox which I am populating with event descriptions and completion, and I would like a signal other then Completed Yes Yes No I would like Completed ? ? Now, in case that does not display, it is Alt-251 which is a check-mark. If I enter that into a table record, it displays appropriately ? indicating I could make this happen in the listbox using Short Text as a field type. I know I could also display a completion date instead of a Yes/No, but in this case I do not wish to. I tried instead a rowsource like this: SELECT [ID], [Description], iif([Completed],CHR(251),"") AS Done FROM Events And that is showing something like ? (I believe it is a ?mu??). Same if CHRW(251) instead of CHR(251). I believe that ? (251) and ? (0251) are quite different. Is there any function in Access that will return Alt-251 instead of Alt-0251 in a query? From davidmcafee at gmail.com Fri May 16 10:57:36 2014 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 08:57:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The most obscure question - alt coded symbol in a query result (check mark)? In-Reply-To: <016e01cf70c9$1f8d8720$5ea89560$@gmail.com> References: <016e01cf70c9$1f8d8720$5ea89560$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I was going to recommend using the WingDing font. Here is a link that describes using a better, web friendly font: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100819144054AAutScN On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 10:38 PM, Bill Benson wrote: > I can think of some other ways to do this but I would like your input. > > > > I have a listbox which I am populating with event descriptions and > completion, and I would like a signal other then > > Completed > > Yes > > Yes > > No > > > > > > I would like > > > > Completed > > ? > > ? > From vbacreations at gmail.com Fri May 16 11:07:24 2014 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 12:07:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The most obscure question - alt coded symbol in a query result (check mark)? In-Reply-To: References: <016e01cf70c9$1f8d8720$5ea89560$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Can that be used on only one field in a listbox? Admittedly I left off the other descriptive fields in my example, for which I apologize. For not I have gone with a short text field and an storing Alt 251 manually but I don't know what will happen when I try to do it with insert sql. I may need to store special characters in a table and query them in order to transfer them, since CHR (251) is letting me down. On May 16, 2014 11:59 AM, "David McAfee" wrote: > I was going to recommend using the WingDing font. > > Here is a link that describes using a better, web friendly font: > https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100819144054AAutScN > > > > On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 10:38 PM, Bill Benson >wrote: > > > I can think of some other ways to do this but I would like your input. > > > > > > > > I have a listbox which I am populating with event descriptions and > > completion, and I would like a signal other then > > > > Completed > > > > Yes > > > > Yes > > > > No > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like > > > > > > > > Completed > > > > ? > > > > ? > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon May 19 16:07:15 2014 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 14:07:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The most obscure question - alt coded symbol in a query result (check mark)? In-Reply-To: References: <016e01cf70c9$1f8d8720$5ea89560$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Storing it in a table may be your best bet if you are going to need it in a listbox. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 9:07 AM, William Benson wrote: > Can that be used on only one field in a listbox? Admittedly I left off the > other descriptive fields in my example, for which I apologize. > From bensonforums at gmail.com Mon May 19 16:15:49 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 17:15:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The most obscure question - alt coded symbol in a query result (check mark)? In-Reply-To: References: <016e01cf70c9$1f8d8720$5ea89560$@gmail.com> Message-ID: The listbox will be the same font in all columns right?, so I don't think I will be able to use a mixture of fonts - I just cannot see how storing it in a table will get me to a result, am I missing something? On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 5:07 PM, David McAfee wrote: > Storing it in a table may be your best bet if you are going to need it in a > listbox. > > > On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 9:07 AM, William Benson >wrote: > > > Can that be used on only one field in a listbox? Admittedly I left off > the > > other descriptive fields in my example, for which I apologize. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon May 19 16:26:01 2014 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 14:26:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The most obscure question - alt coded symbol in a query result (check mark)? In-Reply-To: <016e01cf70c9$1f8d8720$5ea89560$@gmail.com> References: <016e01cf70c9$1f8d8720$5ea89560$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I was able to copy and paste the checkmark from your original message. I pasted it into one of my Access tables and it shows. I changed the font on the table and it still shows in the table as ? I created a query and it shows as ? So I assume you can read it into a variable and use it as needed. D From bensonforums at gmail.com Mon May 19 16:51:37 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 17:51:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The most obscure question - alt coded symbol in a query result (check mark)? In-Reply-To: References: <016e01cf70c9$1f8d8720$5ea89560$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <011801cf73ac$835db780$8a192680$@gmail.com> I am not making this clear enough. I have a yes/no field called Completed. I *want* it to stay yes no. I am already doing what you suggest which is to change the field type to Short Text and store the ? instead of a T/F value. But that is not what I want to do. If there was a way to get ALT 251 in the output of a query from the SQL itself, that would have been good. Suppose there were a function called MYALT in Access instead of CHR... which doesn't work because CHR(251) is not a ? in standard character font. I would have changed my rowsource to Select MyItem, IIF([Completed],MYALT(251),"") as IsCompleted I have another approach now, I can keep the characters I want as a lookup table in a SpecialCharsTable. I might have a problem with the field type if I want to use this for more than Booleans, but I will worry about that bridge when I get to it. OrigValue NewValue ------------ ------------ True ? False NULL New list rowsource: Select E.MyItem, S.Char as IsCompleted From Events as E INNER JOIN SpecialCharsTable as S ON E.Completed = S.OrigValue -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 5:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The most obscure question - alt coded symbol in a query result (check mark)? I was able to copy and paste the checkmark from your original message. I pasted it into one of my Access tables and it shows. I changed the font on the table and it still shows in the table as ? I created a query and it shows as ? So I assume you can read it into a variable and use it as needed. D -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon May 19 18:01:43 2014 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 16:01:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AppTitle Property Message-ID: <5BE5AD4C595F4C76913240C15B224346@HAL9007> Dear List: I had a 2003 mdb with a problem - not important what it was - had to do with odd mouse behavior in design view. Anyway, I imported all the objects into a blank mdb and everything works better except: lblVersion.Caption = "Version " & Right(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle"), _ Len(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle")) - 46) works perfectly in the previous version and all versions of this app going back to day 1. In this new one it throws the error 3270 - Property Not Found. Checked the references - identical between the two mdbs. Any idea what to look for next? MTIA Rocky From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 19 18:01:51 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 09:01:51 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] The most obscure question - alt coded symbol in a query result (check mark)? In-Reply-To: <011801cf73ac$835db780$8a192680$@gmail.com> References: <016e01cf70c9$1f8d8720$5ea89560$@gmail.com>, , <011801cf73ac$835db780$8a192680$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <537A8D5F.21391.582730BF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> ChrW() is used for a Unicode characters, not CHR(). A little bit of copy/paste together with the AscW() function gave me the answer :-) IIf([Completed],ChrW(8730),Null) -- Stuart On 19 May 2014 at 17:51, Bill Benson wrote: > I am not making this clear enough. I have a yes/no field called > Completed. I *want* it to stay yes no. I am already doing what you > suggest which is to change the field type to Short Text and store the > instead of a T/F value. But that is not what I want to do. > > If there was a way to get ALT 251 in the output of a query from the > SQL itself, that would have been good. Suppose there were a function > called MYALT in Access instead of CHR... which doesn't work because > CHR(251) is not a in standard character font. I would have changed > my rowsource to > Select MyItem, IIF([Completed],MYALT(251),"") as IsCompleted > > I have another approach now, I can keep the characters I want as a > lookup table in a SpecialCharsTable. I might have a problem with the > field type if I want to use this for more than Booleans, but I will > worry about that bridge when I get to it. > > OrigValue NewValue > ------------ ------------ > True > False NULL > > New list rowsource: > Select E.MyItem, S.Char as IsCompleted > From Events as E INNER JOIN SpecialCharsTable as S > ON E.Completed = S.OrigValue > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David > McAfee Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 5:26 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The most obscure > question - alt coded symbol in a query result (check mark)? > > I was able to copy and paste the checkmark from your original message. > > I pasted it into one of my Access tables and it shows. > I changed the font on the table and it still shows in the table as > > I created a query and it shows as > So I assume you can read it into a variable and use it as needed. > > D > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Mon May 19 18:06:07 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 19:06:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The most obscure question - alt coded symbol in a query result (check mark)? In-Reply-To: <537A8D5F.21391.582730BF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <016e01cf70c9$1f8d8720$5ea89560$@gmail.com> <011801cf73ac$835db780$8a192680$@gmail.com> <537A8D5F.21391.582730BF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Neat, can't wait to try this. I hope it helps someone else display check marks in a yes/no field someday! On May 19, 2014 7:03 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > ChrW() is used for a Unicode characters, not CHR(). > > A little bit of copy/paste together with the AscW() function gave me the > answer :-) > > IIf([Completed],ChrW(8730),Null) > > -- > Stuart > > > On 19 May 2014 at 17:51, Bill Benson wrote: > > > I am not making this clear enough. I have a yes/no field called > > Completed. I *want* it to stay yes no. I am already doing what you > > suggest which is to change the field type to Short Text and store the > > instead of a T/F value. But that is not what I want to do. > > > > If there was a way to get ALT 251 in the output of a query from the > > SQL itself, that would have been good. Suppose there were a function > > called MYALT in Access instead of CHR... which doesn't work because > > CHR(251) is not a in standard character font. I would have changed > > my rowsource to > > Select MyItem, IIF([Completed],MYALT(251),"") as IsCompleted > > > > I have another approach now, I can keep the characters I want as a > > lookup table in a SpecialCharsTable. I might have a problem with the > > field type if I want to use this for more than Booleans, but I will > > worry about that bridge when I get to it. > > > > OrigValue NewValue > > ------------ ------------ > > True > > False NULL > > > > New list rowsource: > > Select E.MyItem, S.Char as IsCompleted > > From Events as E INNER JOIN SpecialCharsTable as S > > ON E.Completed = S.OrigValue > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David > > McAfee Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 5:26 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The most obscure > > question - alt coded symbol in a query result (check mark)? > > > > I was able to copy and paste the checkmark from your original message. > > > > I pasted it into one of my Access tables and it shows. > > I changed the font on the table and it still shows in the table as > > > > I created a query and it shows as > > So I assume you can read it into a variable and use it as needed. > > > > D > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Mon May 19 18:12:31 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 23:12:31 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] AppTitle Property In-Reply-To: <5BE5AD4C595F4C76913240C15B224346@HAL9007> References: <5BE5AD4C595F4C76913240C15B224346@HAL9007> Message-ID: <6c657cd3df2a434fb9eaca854dc521fe@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hi Rocky, I would (first copy the code to notepad and then) delete and rebuild the label control and then paste the original code into the new control. Sometimes Access controls just go *plurk* and the only option seems to be to replace them with a new one. I know that has worked for me in the past when I have had similar / same issues. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Tuesday, 20 May 2014 9:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] AppTitle Property Dear List: I had a 2003 mdb with a problem - not important what it was - had to do with odd mouse behavior in design view. Anyway, I imported all the objects into a blank mdb and everything works better except: lblVersion.Caption = "Version " & Right(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle"), _ Len(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle")) - 46) works perfectly in the previous version and all versions of this app going back to day 1. In this new one it throws the error 3270 - Property Not Found. Checked the references - identical between the two mdbs. Any idea what to look for next? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 19 18:14:03 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 09:14:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] The most obscure question - alt coded symbol in a query result (check mark)? In-Reply-To: References: <016e01cf70c9$1f8d8720$5ea89560$@gmail.com>, <537A8D5F.21391.582730BF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <537A903B.13165.58325AFA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It's about to help me in an application I am updating :-) I'm going to put those check marks in a couple of reports in place of the current "Y"s or "X"s Thanks for pushing me to find the generic solution to using Unicode characters in Access forms/reports. -- Stuart On 19 May 2014 at 19:06, Bill Benson wrote: > Neat, can't wait to try this. I hope it helps someone else display > check marks in a yes/no field someday! On May 19, 2014 7:03 PM, > "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > > > ChrW() is used for a Unicode characters, not CHR(). > > > > A little bit of copy/paste together with the AscW() function gave > > me the answer :-) > > > > IIf([Completed],ChrW(8730),Null) > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > > > On 19 May 2014 at 17:51, Bill Benson wrote: > > > > > I am not making this clear enough. I have a yes/no field called > > > Completed. I *want* it to stay yes no. I am already doing what you > > > suggest which is to change the field type to Short Text and store > > > the > > > instead of a T/F value. But that is not what I want to do. > > > > > > If there was a way to get ALT 251 in the output of a query from > > > the SQL itself, that would have been good. Suppose there were a > > > function called MYALT in Access instead of CHR... which doesn't > > > work because CHR(251) is not a in standard character font. I > > > would have changed my rowsource to > > > Select MyItem, IIF([Completed],MYALT(251),"") as IsCompleted > > > > > > I have another approach now, I can keep the characters I want as a > > > lookup table in a SpecialCharsTable. I might have a problem with > > > the field type if I want to use this for more than Booleans, but I > > > will worry about that bridge when I get to it. > > > > > > OrigValue NewValue > > > ------------ ------------ > > > True > > > False NULL > > > > > > New list rowsource: > > > Select E.MyItem, S.Char as IsCompleted > > > From Events as E INNER JOIN SpecialCharsTable as S > > > ON E.Completed = S.OrigValue > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David > > > McAfee Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 5:26 PM To: Access Developers > > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The most > > > obscure question - alt coded symbol in a query result (check > > > mark)? > > > > > > I was able to copy and paste the checkmark from your original > > > message. > > > > > > I pasted it into one of my Access tables and it shows. > > > I changed the font on the table and it still shows in the table as > > > > > > I created a query and it shows as > > > So I assume you can read it into a variable and use it as needed. > > > > > > D > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 19 18:14:02 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 09:14:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] AppTitle Property In-Reply-To: <5BE5AD4C595F4C76913240C15B224346@HAL9007> References: <5BE5AD4C595F4C76913240C15B224346@HAL9007> Message-ID: <537A903A.605.58325733@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Generally, database properties in Access do not exist until they are set for the first time. Set it either with the Options - Current Database (or whatever it was in 2003 or in VBA with something like: Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperties = True Set db = Nothing -- Stuart On 19 May 2014 at 16:01, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I had a 2003 mdb with a problem - not important what it was - had to > do with odd mouse behavior in design view. > > Anyway, I imported all the objects into a blank mdb and everything > works better except: > > lblVersion.Caption = "Version " & > Right(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle"), _ > Len(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle")) - 46) > > works perfectly in the previous version and all versions of this app > going back to day 1. > > In this new one it throws the error 3270 - Property Not Found. > > Checked the references - identical between the two mdbs. > > Any idea what to look for next? > > MTIA > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon May 19 18:44:01 2014 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 16:44:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AppTitle Property In-Reply-To: <6c657cd3df2a434fb9eaca854dc521fe@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <5BE5AD4C595F4C76913240C15B224346@HAL9007> <6c657cd3df2a434fb9eaca854dc521fe@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Well it's in the Open event of the opening form. I re-imported the opening for from the previous version where it's working but the re-imported form fails as well. One of those enduring Access mysteries. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 4:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property Hi Rocky, I would (first copy the code to notepad and then) delete and rebuild the label control and then paste the original code into the new control. Sometimes Access controls just go *plurk* and the only option seems to be to replace them with a new one. I know that has worked for me in the past when I have had similar / same issues. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Tuesday, 20 May 2014 9:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] AppTitle Property Dear List: I had a 2003 mdb with a problem - not important what it was - had to do with odd mouse behavior in design view. Anyway, I imported all the objects into a blank mdb and everything works better except: lblVersion.Caption = "Version " & Right(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle"), _ Len(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle")) - 46) works perfectly in the previous version and all versions of this app going back to day 1. In this new one it throws the error 3270 - Property Not Found. Checked the references - identical between the two mdbs. Any idea what to look for next? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon May 19 19:12:16 2014 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 17:12:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AppTitle Property In-Reply-To: <537A903A.605.58325733@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <5BE5AD4C595F4C76913240C15B224346@HAL9007> <537A903A.605.58325733@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I could try that but the form should work identically in the new db as the old, no? And I didn't have that code in the any of the previous versions. There must be some setting in the db container that's different between the two versions but I can't imagine what it is. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 4:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property Generally, database properties in Access do not exist until they are set for the first time. Set it either with the Options - Current Database (or whatever it was in 2003 or in VBA with something like: Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperties = True Set db = Nothing -- Stuart On 19 May 2014 at 16:01, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I had a 2003 mdb with a problem - not important what it was - had to > do with odd mouse behavior in design view. > > Anyway, I imported all the objects into a blank mdb and everything > works better except: > > lblVersion.Caption = "Version " & > Right(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle"), _ > Len(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle")) - 46) > > works perfectly in the previous version and all versions of this app > going back to day 1. > > In this new one it throws the error 3270 - Property Not Found. > > Checked the references - identical between the two mdbs. > > Any idea what to look for next? > > MTIA > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Mon May 19 20:09:16 2014 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 21:09:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The most obscure question - alt coded symbol in a query result (check mark)? In-Reply-To: References: <016e01cf70c9$1f8d8720$5ea89560$@gmail.com> <011801cf73ac$835db780$8a192680$@gmail.com> <537A8D5F.21391.582730BF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: The join method on a specialchars table might be another way, p'raps. But this is certainly more direct. On May 19, 2014 7:07 PM, "Bill Benson" wrote: > Neat, can't wait to try this. I hope it helps someone else display check > marks in a yes/no field someday! > On May 19, 2014 7:03 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > wrote: > > > ChrW() is used for a Unicode characters, not CHR(). > > > > A little bit of copy/paste together with the AscW() function gave me the > > answer :-) > > > > IIf([Completed],ChrW(8730),Null) > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > > > On 19 May 2014 at 17:51, Bill Benson wrote: > > > > > I am not making this clear enough. I have a yes/no field called > > > Completed. I *want* it to stay yes no. I am already doing what you > > > suggest which is to change the field type to Short Text and store the > > > instead of a T/F value. But that is not what I want to do. > > > > > > If there was a way to get ALT 251 in the output of a query from the > > > SQL itself, that would have been good. Suppose there were a function > > > called MYALT in Access instead of CHR... which doesn't work because > > > CHR(251) is not a in standard character font. I would have changed > > > my rowsource to > > > Select MyItem, IIF([Completed],MYALT(251),"") as IsCompleted > > > > > > I have another approach now, I can keep the characters I want as a > > > lookup table in a SpecialCharsTable. I might have a problem with the > > > field type if I want to use this for more than Booleans, but I will > > > worry about that bridge when I get to it. > > > > > > OrigValue NewValue > > > ------------ ------------ > > > True > > > False NULL > > > > > > New list rowsource: > > > Select E.MyItem, S.Char as IsCompleted > > > From Events as E INNER JOIN SpecialCharsTable as S > > > ON E.Completed = S.OrigValue > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David > > > McAfee Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 5:26 PM To: Access Developers > > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The most obscure > > > question - alt coded symbol in a query result (check mark)? > > > > > > I was able to copy and paste the checkmark from your original message. > > > > > > I pasted it into one of my Access tables and it shows. > > > I changed the font on the table and it still shows in the table as > > > > > > I created a query and it shows as > > > So I assume you can read it into a variable and use it as needed. > > > > > > D > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 19 20:09:53 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 11:09:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] AppTitle Property In-Reply-To: References: <5BE5AD4C595F4C76913240C15B224346@HAL9007>, <537A903A.605.58325733@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <537AAB61.18172.589C695E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> > the form should work identically in the new db No. It won't work identically because the two "containers" are not identical. You had set the AppTitle in the old container at some early stage. You need to set it for the new container. > There must be some setting in the db container that's > different between the two versions The AppTitle property is the "setting" which is different. > I didn't have that code You can set properties on an Access container in two different ways: 1. Using the various Property Sheet/Wizards. 2. With VBA code. The code I gave you is how to do it in code. It is a piece of generic code which lets you set any database property (I use it to set/reseet such things as AllowByPassKey, AllowShortCutMenus etc) when I lock down an application). -- Stuart On 19 May 2014 at 17:12, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I could try that but the form should work identically in the new db as > the old, no? And I didn't have that code in the any of the previous > versions. There must be some setting in the db container that's > different between the two versions but I can't imagine what it is. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 4:14 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle > Property > > Generally, database properties in Access do not exist until they are > set for the first time. > > Set it either with the Options - Current Database (or whatever it was > in 2003 > > or in VBA with something like: > > Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property > Set db = CurrentDb > db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > SetProperties = True > Set db = Nothing > > -- > Stuart > > On 19 May 2014 at 16:01, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > I had a 2003 mdb with a problem - not important what it was - had to > > do with odd mouse behavior in design view. > > > > Anyway, I imported all the objects into a blank mdb and everything > > works better except: > > > > lblVersion.Caption = "Version " & > > Right(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle"), _ > > Len(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle")) - 46) > > > > works perfectly in the previous version and all versions of this app > > going back to day 1. > > > > In this new one it throws the error 3270 - Property Not Found. > > > > Checked the references - identical between the two mdbs. > > > > Any idea what to look for next? > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 20 01:10:18 2014 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 06:10:18 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] AppTitle Property Message-ID: Hi Rocky Yes it will. But that doesn't help if the property doesn't exist. Did you set the app title as Stuart suggested? /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Rocky Smolin Sendt: 20. maj 2014 02:12 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property I could try that but the form should work identically in the new db as the old, no? And I didn't have that code in the any of the previous versions. There must be some setting in the db container that's different between the two versions but I can't imagine what it is. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 4:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property Generally, database properties in Access do not exist until they are set for the first time. Set it either with the Options - Current Database (or whatever it was in 2003 or in VBA with something like: Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperties = True Set db = Nothing -- Stuart On 19 May 2014 at 16:01, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I had a 2003 mdb with a problem - not important what it was - had to > do with odd mouse behavior in design view. > > Anyway, I imported all the objects into a blank mdb and everything > works better except: > > lblVersion.Caption = "Version " & > Right(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle"), _ > Len(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle")) - 46) > > works perfectly in the previous version and all versions of this app > going back to day 1. > > In this new one it throws the error 3270 - Property Not Found. > > Checked the references - identical between the two mdbs. > > Any idea what to look for next? > > MTIA > > Rocky From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue May 20 07:51:04 2014 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 05:51:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AppTitle Property In-Reply-To: <537A903A.605.58325733@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <5BE5AD4C595F4C76913240C15B224346@HAL9007> <537A903A.605.58325733@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <616A2A576AF34F87A09F509CCDDFE02C@HAL9007> Stuart: What is SetProperties? Does not compile. And what should value of varPropValue be for "AppTitle" TIA Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 4:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property Generally, database properties in Access do not exist until they are set for the first time. Set it either with the Options - Current Database (or whatever it was in 2003 or in VBA with something like: Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperties = True Set db = Nothing -- Stuart On 19 May 2014 at 16:01, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I had a 2003 mdb with a problem - not important what it was - had to > do with odd mouse behavior in design view. > > Anyway, I imported all the objects into a blank mdb and everything > works better except: > > lblVersion.Caption = "Version " & > Right(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle"), _ > Len(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle")) - 46) > > works perfectly in the previous version and all versions of this app > going back to day 1. > > In this new one it throws the error 3270 - Property Not Found. > > Checked the references - identical between the two mdbs. > > Any idea what to look for next? > > MTIA > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue May 20 08:04:01 2014 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 06:04:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AppTitle Property In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2683DF937D3C4C9B9A8ECF139B25608F@HAL9007> I couldn't use the code snip because SetProperties is not defined and I didn't know what value to give varPropValue. However, I just worked around the problem. I opened a previous version of the app, in which the AppTitle code was working, deleted all the objects, imported from the version where it wasn't working, and not it works. So your theory and Stuart's would seem to be correct - the property didn't exist in the newly created mdb. But I use that line of code in a LOT of apps - I put the version and date in the Application Title and display it on the opening form. Never had to define it before. Another Access mystery. Tks. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 11:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property Hi Rocky Yes it will. But that doesn't help if the property doesn't exist. Did you set the app title as Stuart suggested? /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Rocky Smolin Sendt: 20. maj 2014 02:12 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property I could try that but the form should work identically in the new db as the old, no? And I didn't have that code in the any of the previous versions. There must be some setting in the db container that's different between the two versions but I can't imagine what it is. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 4:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property Generally, database properties in Access do not exist until they are set for the first time. Set it either with the Options - Current Database (or whatever it was in 2003 or in VBA with something like: Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperties = True Set db = Nothing -- Stuart On 19 May 2014 at 16:01, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I had a 2003 mdb with a problem - not important what it was - had to > do with odd mouse behavior in design view. > > Anyway, I imported all the objects into a blank mdb and everything > works better except: > > lblVersion.Caption = "Version " & > Right(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle"), _ > Len(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle")) - 46) > > works perfectly in the previous version and all versions of this app > going back to day 1. > > In this new one it throws the error 3270 - Property Not Found. > > Checked the references - identical between the two mdbs. > > Any idea what to look for next? > > MTIA > > Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at aig.com Tue May 20 11:31:25 2014 From: Lambert.Heenan at aig.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 12:31:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AppTitle Property In-Reply-To: <616A2A576AF34F87A09F509CCDDFE02C@HAL9007> References: <5BE5AD4C595F4C76913240C15B224346@HAL9007> <537A903A.605.58325733@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <616A2A576AF34F87A09F509CCDDFE02C@HAL9007> Message-ID: "SetPropterty" - It's a UDF. Here is the code... Private Sub SetProperty(dbsTemp As Database, strName As String, conType As DataTypeEnum, varSetting As Variant) ' Parameters: ' dbsTemp - an initialized Database Object ' strName - the name of the property ' conType - the type of the property, e.g. dbBoolean, dbText etc. ' varSetting - the value to set the property to Dim prpNew As Property Dim errLoop As Error ' Attempt to set the specified property. On Error GoTo Err_Property dbsTemp.Properties(strName) = varSetting On Error GoTo 0 Exit Sub Err_Property: ' Error 3270 means that the property was not found. If DBEngine.Errors(0).Number = 3270 Then ' Create property, set its value, and append it to the ' Properties collection. Set prpNew = dbsTemp.CreateProperty(strName, _ conType, varSetting) dbsTemp.Properties.Append prpNew Resume Next Else ' If different error has occurred, display message. For Each errLoop In DBEngine.Errors MsgBox "Error number: " & errLoop.Number & vbCr & _ errLoop.Description Next errLoop End End If End Sub Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 8:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property Stuart: What is SetProperties? Does not compile. And what should value of varPropValue be for "AppTitle" TIA Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 4:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property Generally, database properties in Access do not exist until they are set for the first time. Set it either with the Options - Current Database (or whatever it was in 2003 or in VBA with something like: Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperties = True Set db = Nothing -- Stuart On 19 May 2014 at 16:01, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I had a 2003 mdb with a problem - not important what it was - had to > do with odd mouse behavior in design view. > > Anyway, I imported all the objects into a blank mdb and everything > works better except: > > lblVersion.Caption = "Version " & > Right(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle"), _ > Len(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle")) - 46) > > works perfectly in the previous version and all versions of this app > going back to day 1. > > In this new one it throws the error 3270 - Property Not Found. > > Checked the references - identical between the two mdbs. > > Any idea what to look for next? > > MTIA > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed May 21 00:14:45 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 01:14:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AppTitle Property In-Reply-To: References: <5BE5AD4C595F4C76913240C15B224346@HAL9007> <537A903A.605.58325733@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <616A2A576AF34F87A09F509CCDDFE02C@HAL9007> Message-ID: <031f01cf74b3$954c7e60$bfe57b20$@gmail.com> Should one have this instead? ' Attempt to set the specified property. On Error GoTo Err_Property dbsTemp.Properties(strName) = varSetting Set dbsTemp.Properties(strName) = varSetting On Error GoTo 0 I doubt with error handling like this, that it could hurt... Or are the properties *never* required to be "SET"? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property "SetPropterty" - It's a UDF. Here is the code... Private Sub SetProperty(dbsTemp As Database, strName As String, conType As DataTypeEnum, varSetting As Variant) ' Parameters: ' dbsTemp - an initialized Database Object ' strName - the name of the property ' conType - the type of the property, e.g. dbBoolean, dbText etc. ' varSetting - the value to set the property to Dim prpNew As Property Dim errLoop As Error ' Attempt to set the specified property. On Error GoTo Err_Property dbsTemp.Properties(strName) = varSetting On Error GoTo 0 Exit Sub Err_Property: ' Error 3270 means that the property was not found. If DBEngine.Errors(0).Number = 3270 Then ' Create property, set its value, and append it to the ' Properties collection. Set prpNew = dbsTemp.CreateProperty(strName, _ conType, varSetting) dbsTemp.Properties.Append prpNew Resume Next Else ' If different error has occurred, display message. For Each errLoop In DBEngine.Errors MsgBox "Error number: " & errLoop.Number & vbCr & _ errLoop.Description Next errLoop End End If End Sub Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 8:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property Stuart: What is SetProperties? Does not compile. And what should value of varPropValue be for "AppTitle" TIA Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 4:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property Generally, database properties in Access do not exist until they are set for the first time. Set it either with the Options - Current Database (or whatever it was in 2003 or in VBA with something like: Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperties = True Set db = Nothing -- Stuart On 19 May 2014 at 16:01, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I had a 2003 mdb with a problem - not important what it was - had to > do with odd mouse behavior in design view. > > Anyway, I imported all the objects into a blank mdb and everything > works better except: > > lblVersion.Caption = "Version " & > Right(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle"), _ > Len(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle")) - 46) > > works perfectly in the previous version and all versions of this app > going back to day 1. > > In this new one it throws the error 3270 - Property Not Found. > > Checked the references - identical between the two mdbs. > > Any idea what to look for next? > > MTIA > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 21 00:58:55 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 15:58:55 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Set Properties In-Reply-To: <031f01cf74b3$954c7e60$bfe57b20$@gmail.com> References: <5BE5AD4C595F4C76913240C15B224346@HAL9007>, , <031f01cf74b3$954c7e60$bfe57b20$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <537C409F.16063.5ECB6308@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Folowing on from Rocky's AppTitle problem and my mention of SetProperties, here's my standard method for locking down a FE: 1. I have an Autoexec Macro which calls a Startup() function 2. One line of the Startup Function is "LockDown True" 3. On my main menu form, I have a label with my Copyright notice. The DoubleClick event for that label contains the line "LockDown False". I have the two functions below in a code module. So every time the application is opened, the "control properties" such as AllowBYpassKey is set to false and users can't get into anything. If I double click on the copyright notice, I can close the application and re-open it with the Shift Key held down to get into everything. Once I have finished working in it, I close it and re-open it and everything is locked once more. Function Lockdown(state As Boolean) SetProperties "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, Not state SetProperties "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, Not state SetProperties "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, Not state SetProperties "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, Not state SetProperties "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, Not state SetProperties "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, Not state SetProperties "AllowSHortcutMenus", dbBoolean, Not state End Function Public Function SetProperties(strPropName As String, _ varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer On Error GoTo Err_SetProperties Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperties = True Set db = Nothing Exit_SetProperties: Exit Function Err_SetProperties: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else SetProperties = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_SetProperties End If End Function On 21 May 2014 at 1:14, Bill Benson wrote: > Should one have this instead? > > ' Attempt to set the specified property. > On Error GoTo Err_Property > dbsTemp.Properties(strName) = varSetting > Set dbsTemp.Properties(strName) = varSetting > On Error GoTo 0 > > I doubt with error handling like this, that it could hurt... > > Or are the properties *never* required to be "SET"? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, > Lambert Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:31 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle > Property > > "SetPropterty" - It's a UDF. Here is the code... > > Private Sub SetProperty(dbsTemp As Database, strName As String, > conType As DataTypeEnum, varSetting As Variant) ' Parameters: > ' dbsTemp - an initialized Database Object ' strName - the name of the > property ' conType - the type of the property, e.g. dbBoolean, dbText > etc. ' varSetting - the value to set the property to > > Dim prpNew As Property > Dim errLoop As Error > > ' Attempt to set the specified property. > On Error GoTo Err_Property > dbsTemp.Properties(strName) = varSetting > On Error GoTo 0 > > Exit Sub > > Err_Property: > > ' Error 3270 means that the property was not found. > If DBEngine.Errors(0).Number = 3270 Then > ' Create property, set its value, and append it to the > ' Properties collection. > Set prpNew = dbsTemp.CreateProperty(strName, _ > conType, varSetting) > dbsTemp.Properties.Append prpNew > Resume Next > Else > ' If different error has occurred, display message. > For Each errLoop In DBEngine.Errors > MsgBox "Error number: " & errLoop.Number & vbCr & _ > errLoop.Description > Next errLoop > End > End If > > End Sub > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 8:51 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle > Property > > Stuart: > > What is SetProperties? Does not compile. And what should value of > varPropValue be for "AppTitle" > > TIA > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 4:14 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle > Property > > Generally, database properties in Access do not exist until they are > set for the first time. > > Set it either with the Options - Current Database (or whatever it was > in 2003 > > or in VBA with something like: > > Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property > Set db = CurrentDb > db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > SetProperties = True > Set db = Nothing > > -- > Stuart > > On 19 May 2014 at 16:01, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > I had a 2003 mdb with a problem - not important what it was - had to > > do with odd mouse behavior in design view. > > > > Anyway, I imported all the objects into a blank mdb and everything > > works better except: > > > > lblVersion.Caption = "Version " & > > Right(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle"), _ > > Len(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle")) - 46) > > > > works perfectly in the previous version and all versions of this app > > going back to day 1. > > > > In this new one it throws the error 3270 - Property Not Found. > > > > Checked the references - identical between the two mdbs. > > > > Any idea what to look for next? > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed May 21 07:48:43 2014 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 05:48:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AppTitle Property In-Reply-To: <031f01cf74b3$954c7e60$bfe57b20$@gmail.com> References: <5BE5AD4C595F4C76913240C15B224346@HAL9007> <537A903A.605.58325733@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <616A2A576AF34F87A09F509CCDDFE02C@HAL9007> <031f01cf74b3$954c7e60$bfe57b20$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Unless they've changed something while I wasn't looking, some properties have to be "created" before they can be set. They exist in potential and it's a bit like creating an instance of a class in order to use the methods and properties of that class. You can't just address them without the first step. Charlotte On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:14 PM, Bill Benson wrote: > Should one have this instead? > > ' Attempt to set the specified property. > On Error GoTo Err_Property > dbsTemp.Properties(strName) = varSetting > Set dbsTemp.Properties(strName) = varSetting > On Error GoTo 0 > > I doubt with error handling like this, that it could hurt... > > Or are the properties *never* required to be "SET"? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:31 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property > > "SetPropterty" - It's a UDF. Here is the code... > > Private Sub SetProperty(dbsTemp As Database, strName As String, conType As > DataTypeEnum, varSetting As Variant) ' Parameters: > ' dbsTemp - an initialized Database Object > ' strName - the name of the property > ' conType - the type of the property, e.g. dbBoolean, dbText etc. > ' varSetting - the value to set the property to > > Dim prpNew As Property > Dim errLoop As Error > > ' Attempt to set the specified property. > On Error GoTo Err_Property > dbsTemp.Properties(strName) = varSetting > On Error GoTo 0 > > Exit Sub > > Err_Property: > > ' Error 3270 means that the property was not found. > If DBEngine.Errors(0).Number = 3270 Then > ' Create property, set its value, and append it to the > ' Properties collection. > Set prpNew = dbsTemp.CreateProperty(strName, _ > conType, varSetting) > dbsTemp.Properties.Append prpNew > Resume Next > Else > ' If different error has occurred, display message. > For Each errLoop In DBEngine.Errors > MsgBox "Error number: " & errLoop.Number & vbCr & _ > errLoop.Description > Next errLoop > End > End If > > End Sub > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 8:51 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property > > Stuart: > > What is SetProperties? Does not compile. And what should value of > varPropValue be for "AppTitle" > > TIA > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 4:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property > > Generally, database properties in Access do not exist until they are set > for > the first time. > > Set it either with the Options - Current Database (or whatever it was in > 2003 > > or in VBA with something like: > > Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property > Set db = CurrentDb > db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > SetProperties = True > Set db = Nothing > > -- > Stuart > > On 19 May 2014 at 16:01, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > I had a 2003 mdb with a problem - not important what it was - had to > > do with odd mouse behavior in design view. > > > > Anyway, I imported all the objects into a blank mdb and everything > > works better except: > > > > lblVersion.Caption = "Version " & > > Right(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle"), _ > > Len(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle")) - 46) > > > > works perfectly in the previous version and all versions of this app > > going back to day 1. > > > > In this new one it throws the error 3270 - Property Not Found. > > > > Checked the references - identical between the two mdbs. > > > > Any idea what to look for next? > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed May 21 07:52:33 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 08:52:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AppTitle Property In-Reply-To: References: <5BE5AD4C595F4C76913240C15B224346@HAL9007> <537A903A.605.58325733@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <616A2A576AF34F87A09F509CCDDFE02C@HAL9007> <031f01cf74b3$954c7e60$bfe57b20$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Charlotte, My question was, are there some properties requiring the Set command as opposed to a simple assignment without set. On May 21, 2014 8:50 AM, "Charlotte Foust" wrote: > Unless they've changed something while I wasn't looking, some properties > have to be "created" before they can be set. They exist in potential and > it's a bit like creating an instance of a class in order to use the methods > and properties of that class. You can't just address them without the > first step. > > Charlotte > > > On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:14 PM, Bill Benson >wrote: > > > Should one have this instead? > > > > ' Attempt to set the specified property. > > On Error GoTo Err_Property > > dbsTemp.Properties(strName) = varSetting > > Set dbsTemp.Properties(strName) = varSetting > > On Error GoTo 0 > > > > I doubt with error handling like this, that it could hurt... > > > > Or are the properties *never* required to be "SET"? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, > Lambert > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:31 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property > > > > "SetPropterty" - It's a UDF. Here is the code... > > > > Private Sub SetProperty(dbsTemp As Database, strName As String, conType > As > > DataTypeEnum, varSetting As Variant) ' Parameters: > > ' dbsTemp - an initialized Database Object > > ' strName - the name of the property > > ' conType - the type of the property, e.g. dbBoolean, dbText etc. > > ' varSetting - the value to set the property to > > > > Dim prpNew As Property > > Dim errLoop As Error > > > > ' Attempt to set the specified property. > > On Error GoTo Err_Property > > dbsTemp.Properties(strName) = varSetting > > On Error GoTo 0 > > > > Exit Sub > > > > Err_Property: > > > > ' Error 3270 means that the property was not found. > > If DBEngine.Errors(0).Number = 3270 Then > > ' Create property, set its value, and append it to the > > ' Properties collection. > > Set prpNew = dbsTemp.CreateProperty(strName, _ > > conType, varSetting) > > dbsTemp.Properties.Append prpNew > > Resume Next > > Else > > ' If different error has occurred, display message. > > For Each errLoop In DBEngine.Errors > > MsgBox "Error number: " & errLoop.Number & vbCr & _ > > errLoop.Description > > Next errLoop > > End > > End If > > > > End Sub > > > > Lambert > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 8:51 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property > > > > Stuart: > > > > What is SetProperties? Does not compile. And what should value of > > varPropValue be for "AppTitle" > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan > > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 4:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property > > > > Generally, database properties in Access do not exist until they are set > > for > > the first time. > > > > Set it either with the Options - Current Database (or whatever it was in > > 2003 > > > > or in VBA with something like: > > > > Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property > > Set db = CurrentDb > > db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > > SetProperties = True > > Set db = Nothing > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 19 May 2014 at 16:01, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I had a 2003 mdb with a problem - not important what it was - had to > > > do with odd mouse behavior in design view. > > > > > > Anyway, I imported all the objects into a blank mdb and everything > > > works better except: > > > > > > lblVersion.Caption = "Version " & > > > Right(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle"), _ > > > Len(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle")) - 46) > > > > > > works perfectly in the previous version and all versions of this app > > > going back to day 1. > > > > > > In this new one it throws the error 3270 - Property Not Found. > > > > > > Checked the references - identical between the two mdbs. > > > > > > Any idea what to look for next? > > > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Lambert.Heenan at aig.com Wed May 21 09:04:02 2014 From: Lambert.Heenan at aig.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 10:04:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AppTitle Property In-Reply-To: References: <5BE5AD4C595F4C76913240C15B224346@HAL9007> <537A903A.605.58325733@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <616A2A576AF34F87A09F509CCDDFE02C@HAL9007> Message-ID: Oops. My error. The data type for conType should just be Long Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property "SetPropterty" - It's a UDF. Here is the code... Private Sub SetProperty(dbsTemp As Database, strName As String, conType As DataTypeEnum, varSetting As Variant) ' Parameters: ' dbsTemp - an initialized Database Object ' strName - the name of the property ' conType - the type of the property, e.g. dbBoolean, dbText etc. ' varSetting - the value to set the property to Dim prpNew As Property Dim errLoop As Error ' Attempt to set the specified property. On Error GoTo Err_Property dbsTemp.Properties(strName) = varSetting On Error GoTo 0 Exit Sub Err_Property: ' Error 3270 means that the property was not found. If DBEngine.Errors(0).Number = 3270 Then ' Create property, set its value, and append it to the ' Properties collection. Set prpNew = dbsTemp.CreateProperty(strName, _ conType, varSetting) dbsTemp.Properties.Append prpNew Resume Next Else ' If different error has occurred, display message. For Each errLoop In DBEngine.Errors MsgBox "Error number: " & errLoop.Number & vbCr & _ errLoop.Description Next errLoop End End If End Sub Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 8:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property Stuart: What is SetProperties? Does not compile. And what should value of varPropValue be for "AppTitle" TIA Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 4:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AppTitle Property Generally, database properties in Access do not exist until they are set for the first time. Set it either with the Options - Current Database (or whatever it was in 2003 or in VBA with something like: Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperties = True Set db = Nothing -- Stuart On 19 May 2014 at 16:01, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I had a 2003 mdb with a problem - not important what it was - had to > do with odd mouse behavior in design view. > > Anyway, I imported all the objects into a blank mdb and everything > works better except: > > lblVersion.Caption = "Version " & > Right(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle"), _ > Len(CurrentDb.Properties("AppTitle")) - 46) > > works perfectly in the previous version and all versions of this app > going back to day 1. > > In this new one it throws the error 3270 - Property Not Found. > > Checked the references - identical between the two mdbs. > > Any idea what to look for next? > > MTIA > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Wed May 21 21:55:09 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 02:55:09 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All, We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically e-mailed to select employees. We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running Windows Server 2012 R2. Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows Server 2012 R2? Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? Thanks, Brad From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed May 21 22:04:21 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 23:04:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005901cf756a$87f690e0$97e3b2a0$@gmail.com> >> Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? I would say go with 2010, once I got used to it I had no problems. Access 2007 required an add-in to export data to a pdf file. I liked Access 2010 fairly well and there is no way I would use any Office 2007 products unless someone put a gun to my head. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc179181(v=office.14).aspx -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 All, We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically e-mailed to select employees. We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running Windows Server 2012 R2. Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows Server 2012 R2? Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed May 21 22:07:34 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 23:07:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 In-Reply-To: <005901cf756a$87f690e0$97e3b2a0$@gmail.com> References: <005901cf756a$87f690e0$97e3b2a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <005a01cf756a$fb0fe5e0$f12fb1a0$@gmail.com> My bad, if I had read the article a bit further, he export to pdf became integrated in Office Access 2007 SP2 Doh!! I still wouldn't use Office 2007 without a gun to my head, but maybe now I might do it if it were not loaded. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Benson [mailto:bensonforums at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 11:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 >> Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? I would say go with 2010, once I got used to it I had no problems. Access 2007 required an add-in to export data to a pdf file. I liked Access 2010 fairly well and there is no way I would use any Office 2007 products unless someone put a gun to my head. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc179181(v=office.14).aspx -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 All, We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically e-mailed to select employees. We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running Windows Server 2012 R2. Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows Server 2012 R2? Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed May 21 22:08:58 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 03:08:58 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 In-Reply-To: <005901cf756a$87f690e0$97e3b2a0$@gmail.com> References: <005901cf756a$87f690e0$97e3b2a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <33542eb5f7254047a5d9ed48524cad90@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Yep, Agree Bill. 2010 is a much nicer (and more stable) experience overall compared to 2007 for all Office software. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Thursday, 22 May 2014 1:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 >> Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? I would say go with 2010, once I got used to it I had no problems. Access 2007 required an add-in to export data to a pdf file. I liked Access 2010 fairly well and there is no way I would use any Office 2007 products unless someone put a gun to my head. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc179181(v=office.14).aspx -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 All, We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically e-mailed to select employees. We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running Windows Server 2012 R2. Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows Server 2012 R2? Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed May 21 22:10:01 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 03:10:01 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 In-Reply-To: <005a01cf756a$fb0fe5e0$f12fb1a0$@gmail.com> References: <005901cf756a$87f690e0$97e3b2a0$@gmail.com> <005a01cf756a$fb0fe5e0$f12fb1a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2ef9775de7e04286bded774327104174@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Fundamentally you are still correct though Bill. 2007 should be thought of as the beta release for 2010. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Thursday, 22 May 2014 1:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 My bad, if I had read the article a bit further, he export to pdf became integrated in Office Access 2007 SP2 Doh!! I still wouldn't use Office 2007 without a gun to my head, but maybe now I might do it if it were not loaded. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Benson [mailto:bensonforums at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 11:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 >> Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? I would say go with 2010, once I got used to it I had no problems. Access 2007 required an add-in to export data to a pdf file. I liked Access 2010 fairly well and there is no way I would use any Office 2007 products unless someone put a gun to my head. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc179181(v=office.14).aspx -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 All, We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically e-mailed to select employees. We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running Windows Server 2012 R2. Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows Server 2012 R2? Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 21 22:21:24 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 13:21:24 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 In-Reply-To: <33542eb5f7254047a5d9ed48524cad90@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: , <005901cf756a$87f690e0$97e3b2a0$@gmail.com>, <33542eb5f7254047a5d9ed48524cad90@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <537D6D34.9408.87DD94@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Yep, Typical MS "get it nearly right the second time". Access 2000 - WIn 2000 Access 2003 - XP Access 2007 - Vista Access 2010 - WIn 7 On 22 May 2014 at 3:08, Darryl Collins wrote: > Yep, Agree Bill. 2010 is a much nicer (and more stable) experience > overall compared to 2007 for all Office software. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson > Sent: Thursday, 22 May 2014 1:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on > Windows Server 2012 R2 > > >> Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? > > I would say go with 2010, once I got used to it I had no problems. > Access 2007 required an add-in to export data to a pdf file. > > I liked Access 2010 fairly well and there is no way I would use any > Office 2007 products unless someone put a gun to my head. > > > http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc179181(v=office.14).aspx > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime > on Windows Server 2012 R2 > > All, > > We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under > Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs > every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server > database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically > e-mailed to select employees. > > We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running > Windows Server 2012 R2. > > Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows > Server 2012 R2? > > Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darren at activebilling.com.au Thu May 22 01:02:37 2014 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 16:02:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003: Deploying Stored Procs to SQL Server Message-ID: <00b301cf7583$705073c0$50f15b40$@activebilling.com.au> Hi Team A colleague asked if I know a way to deploy a 'saved' StoredProcedure, in an SQL file, to many SQL Server dbs (About 20 dBs) The MS command line tool for doing this (I am told) strips the nice formatting & indents etc. and makes the resulting deployed SPROC had to read. So I said Yep, I can do that in Access. So, via code, I thought I'd read in the contents of the SQL File as I would a stream from a text file. Then I would loop through a predefined list of the destination Databases and their Servers and would create a huge Pass-through Update Query with a Use DB at the beginning of each desired insert then simply run the Pass-through query from Access. (FYI - I do this with something much simpler - IE build and deploy SPROCS from VBA. Except I don't read in the SQL first - It's hardcoded in my Access App for my little job) Anyway I run into issues almost straight away with "GO" statements by having them in the Pass-through Update Query - Because for one reason or another these cause the running of the Pass-through update to fail. So what I could do is open a query in Query Analyser to each of the destination dBs and have him run 15-20 queries. Or I can put my huge big query into one Query window and let him run the one big query. What do you guys do for this kind of thing and what approaches might your suggest for this scenario? Happy to explain it better if you want J Darren From darren at activebilling.com.au Thu May 22 01:23:21 2014 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 16:23:21 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00bb01cf7586$55c1deb0$01459c10$@activebilling.com.au> Personally I'd use Reporting Services, if you have it D -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Thursday, 22 May 2014 12:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 All, We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically e-mailed to select employees. We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running Windows Server 2012 R2. Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows Server 2012 R2? Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu May 22 04:49:44 2014 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 05:49:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2003: Deploying Stored Procs to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <00b301cf7583$705073c0$50f15b40$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00b301cf7583$705073c0$50f15b40$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: Darren, I confess that I've never tried to "roll my own" for a task like this. There are several tools available from various vendors for just this sort of task. I'm a big fan of Red Gate's toolbelt, which includes a pair of related tools: SQL Compare and SQL Data Compare. Both take a source and target database and compare the two, optionally updating the target to match the source. The Red Gate stuff is available in a trial version. Another vendor offering similar tools is Apex, and there are others as well. Arthur On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 2:02 AM, Darren wrote: > Hi Team > > A colleague asked if I know a way to deploy a 'saved' StoredProcedure, in > an > SQL file, to many SQL Server dbs (About 20 dBs) > > The MS command line tool for doing this (I am told) strips the nice > formatting & indents etc. and makes the resulting deployed SPROC had to > read. > > So I said Yep, I can do that in Access. > > So, via code, I thought I'd read in the contents of the SQL File as I would > a stream from a text file. > > Then I would loop through a predefined list of the destination Databases > and > their Servers and would create a huge Pass-through Update Query with a Use > DB at the beginning of each desired insert then simply run the Pass-through > query from Access. > > > > (FYI - I do this with something much simpler - IE build and deploy SPROCS > from VBA. Except I don't read in the SQL first - It's hardcoded in my > Access > App for my little job) > > > > Anyway I run into issues almost straight away with "GO" statements by > having > them in the Pass-through Update Query - Because for one reason or another > these cause the running of the Pass-through update to fail. > > So what I could do is open a query in Query Analyser to each of the > destination dBs and have him run 15-20 queries. > > Or I can put my huge big query into one Query window and let him run the > one > big query. > > > > What do you guys do for this kind of thing and what approaches might your > suggest for this scenario? > > Happy to explain it better if you want J > > > > Darren > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Arthur From bradm at blackforestltd.com Thu May 22 05:48:13 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 10:48:13 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 In-Reply-To: <00bb01cf7586$55c1deb0$01459c10$@activebilling.com.au> References: , <00bb01cf7586$55c1deb0$01459c10$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <437dc982a2754163bc56e4e59bd1e631@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Darren, I agree. Unfortunately Reporting Services is not available at this time. Thanks, Brad ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] on behalf of Darren [darren at activebilling.com.au] Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 1:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 Personally I'd use Reporting Services, if you have it D -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Thursday, 22 May 2014 12:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 All, We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically e-mailed to select employees. We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running Windows Server 2012 R2. Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows Server 2012 R2? Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu May 22 06:03:35 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 07:03:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Use 2010 and if you can, 2013. Although be careful with 2013. Many client DB features were removed. A2010 is the last full featured version of Access for client(desktop) DB's. There was a bug in JET/ACE in relation to multi-core processors running under 64 bit OS's. Not sure when it was fixed. Microsoft was pretty mum about it (it's never been documented to my knowledge). 2010 should certainly have the fix, but A2007 may not. It was discovered when Windows Server 2008 R2 was released. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 All, We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically e-mailed to select employees. We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running Windows Server 2012 R2. Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows Server 2012 R2? Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ewaldt at gdls.com Thu May 22 06:45:51 2014 From: ewaldt at gdls.com (ewaldt at gdls.com) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 07:45:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Finding the levels in a bill of material Message-ID: In a simplified bill of material (BOM), let's say I have (first line contains field names): PartNumber, Parent , Level 001, (null), 0 002, 001, 1 003, 001, 1 004, 003, 2 005, 001, 1 006, 005, 2 007, 005, 2 008, 007, 3 002, 007, 3 009, 005, 2 010, 001, 1 I put the levels in to show what I actually need to find. In other words, I have the part number and the parent's part number, but don't have the level. so pretend the levels are all blank. In the real tables, there could be over 20 levels and 20,000 records. Since it's zero-based, the first is level 0, of course. Any parts showing the first one as the parent logically will be level 1. Those are the easy ones. Part numbers can appear more than once and at different levels (not as a descendent of themselves, of course). Note that part number 002 shows up as a child of 001, and also as a child of 007 (with all that messing around, you have to figure Bond has some kids somewhere). BTW, each also has an ID number (lngID), assigned in the order the parts are presented. Does anyone have a good algorithm to find the Level for these? Thanks in advance for any and all help. Tom Ewald Mass Properties General Dynamics Land Systems From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu May 22 07:39:06 2014 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 05:39:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Finding the levels in a bill of material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wrote a commercial bill of materials processor, and, while it has an internal level number field, it's for use only in the cost roll up function and is not displayed to the user. The actual level of a part in a multi-level assembly only needs to be known in a report of the specific assembly. So it is displayed in my reports as both a level (not the one in the product structure table) and as an indent on the report. To make the reports I create a temp table with all the report data using a 'push/pop' scheme where a component that has a BOM causes a push onto a stack, then next level below is added to the temp table, and at the end of that sub-assembly's BOM (assuming no parts on that level with BOMs) the stack is 'popped' and the level above continues processing. HTH Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ewaldt at gdls.com Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 4:46 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Finding the levels in a bill of material In a simplified bill of material (BOM), let's say I have (first line contains field names): PartNumber, Parent , Level 001, (null), 0 002, 001, 1 003, 001, 1 004, 003, 2 005, 001, 1 006, 005, 2 007, 005, 2 008, 007, 3 002, 007, 3 009, 005, 2 010, 001, 1 I put the levels in to show what I actually need to find. In other words, I have the part number and the parent's part number, but don't have the level. so pretend the levels are all blank. In the real tables, there could be over 20 levels and 20,000 records. Since it's zero-based, the first is level 0, of course. Any parts showing the first one as the parent logically will be level 1. Those are the easy ones. Part numbers can appear more than once and at different levels (not as a descendent of themselves, of course). Note that part number 002 shows up as a child of 001, and also as a child of 007 (with all that messing around, you have to figure Bond has some kids somewhere). BTW, each also has an ID number (lngID), assigned in the order the parts are presented. Does anyone have a good algorithm to find the Level for these? Thanks in advance for any and all help. Tom Ewald Mass Properties General Dynamics Land Systems -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu May 22 08:02:43 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 09:02:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Finding the levels in a bill of material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B8D37C6DA94CEF9A2DDCB07B451146@XPS> I'm e-mailing you off-list three different approaches. One is a VBA based solution by myself, one is a SQL solution from Nico Altnick, and the other SQL based by Joe Cleko. There's also an article on EE: Expanding a Hierarchical Data Structure http://rdsrc.us/IEdCko which I gave some input on. It's similar to the VBA solution I'm e-mailing, but slightly different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ewaldt at gdls.com Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 07:46 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Finding the levels in a bill of material In a simplified bill of material (BOM), let's say I have (first line contains field names): PartNumber, Parent , Level 001, (null), 0 002, 001, 1 003, 001, 1 004, 003, 2 005, 001, 1 006, 005, 2 007, 005, 2 008, 007, 3 002, 007, 3 009, 005, 2 010, 001, 1 I put the levels in to show what I actually need to find. In other words, I have the part number and the parent's part number, but don't have the level. so pretend the levels are all blank. In the real tables, there could be over 20 levels and 20,000 records. Since it's zero-based, the first is level 0, of course. Any parts showing the first one as the parent logically will be level 1. Those are the easy ones. Part numbers can appear more than once and at different levels (not as a descendent of themselves, of course). Note that part number 002 shows up as a child of 001, and also as a child of 007 (with all that messing around, you have to figure Bond has some kids somewhere). BTW, each also has an ID number (lngID), assigned in the order the parts are presented. Does anyone have a good algorithm to find the Level for these? Thanks in advance for any and all help. Tom Ewald Mass Properties General Dynamics Land Systems -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu May 22 08:03:20 2014 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 06:03:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Finding the levels in a bill of material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08CC6C9BD5BA43489D78012702022AB4@HAL9007> Here's a sample report: http://www.e-z-mrp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/BOM-603.jpg R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 5:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Finding the levels in a bill of material I wrote a commercial bill of materials processor, and, while it has an internal level number field, it's for use only in the cost roll up function and is not displayed to the user. The actual level of a part in a multi-level assembly only needs to be known in a report of the specific assembly. So it is displayed in my reports as both a level (not the one in the product structure table) and as an indent on the report. To make the reports I create a temp table with all the report data using a 'push/pop' scheme where a component that has a BOM causes a push onto a stack, then next level below is added to the temp table, and at the end of that sub-assembly's BOM (assuming no parts on that level with BOMs) the stack is 'popped' and the level above continues processing. HTH Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ewaldt at gdls.com Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 4:46 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Finding the levels in a bill of material In a simplified bill of material (BOM), let's say I have (first line contains field names): PartNumber, Parent , Level 001, (null), 0 002, 001, 1 003, 001, 1 004, 003, 2 005, 001, 1 006, 005, 2 007, 005, 2 008, 007, 3 002, 007, 3 009, 005, 2 010, 001, 1 I put the levels in to show what I actually need to find. In other words, I have the part number and the parent's part number, but don't have the level. so pretend the levels are all blank. In the real tables, there could be over 20 levels and 20,000 records. Since it's zero-based, the first is level 0, of course. Any parts showing the first one as the parent logically will be level 1. Those are the easy ones. Part numbers can appear more than once and at different levels (not as a descendent of themselves, of course). Note that part number 002 shows up as a child of 001, and also as a child of 007 (with all that messing around, you have to figure Bond has some kids somewhere). BTW, each also has an ID number (lngID), assigned in the order the parts are presented. Does anyone have a good algorithm to find the Level for these? Thanks in advance for any and all help. Tom Ewald Mass Properties General Dynamics Land Systems -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Thu May 22 16:24:35 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 21:24:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <78b83dac0af04b048c34a41aecd09f62@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> All, Thanks to everyone who shared their ideas and insights on this topic. I downloaded and installed Access 2010 Runtime this morning. I have run a number of small tests and so far everything works nicely. However, all of the reports seem to run MUCH longer than before (about twice as long). Example - Old Server - Access 2007 Runtime - Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server - Access 2010 Runtime - Report800 - 31 Minutes I sort of remember earlier posts here on AccessD regarding excessive run times. It seems like someone suggested possible "printer issues", but I can't remember for sure. Any ideas on these extended run times would be most appreciated. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:04 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 Use 2010 and if you can, 2013. Although be careful with 2013. Many client DB features were removed. A2010 is the last full featured version of Access for client(desktop) DB's. There was a bug in JET/ACE in relation to multi-core processors running under 64 bit OS's. Not sure when it was fixed. Microsoft was pretty mum about it (it's never been documented to my knowledge). 2010 should certainly have the fix, but A2007 may not. It was discovered when Windows Server 2008 R2 was released. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 All, We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically e-mailed to select employees. We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running Windows Server 2012 R2. Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows Server 2012 R2? Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 22 21:42:32 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 20:42:32 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs In-Reply-To: <78b83dac0af04b048c34a41aecd09f62@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <1298983612.52674376.1400812952920.JavaMail.root@cds018> Historically, pass-through reporting is excruciatingly slow. I have always use a SP to gather the report info, downloaded the data to a local dummy table and printed locally. This process can reduce report start times from 30 minutes plus to a couple of seconds. Check out the ancient solution: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newsletters/newsletter112003/0311UnboundReports.asp Not all of the sample is necessary just the core code of around a 50 to 60 line solution. HTH Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Marks" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:24:35 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs All, Thanks to everyone who shared their ideas and insights on this topic. I downloaded and installed Access 2010 Runtime this morning. I have run a number of small tests and so far everything works nicely. However, all of the reports seem to run MUCH longer than before (about twice as long). Example - Old Server - Access 2007 Runtime - Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server - Access 2010 Runtime - Report800 - 31 Minutes I sort of remember earlier posts here on AccessD regarding excessive run times. It seems like someone suggested possible "printer issues", but I can't remember for sure. Any ideas on these extended run times would be most appreciated. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:04 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 Use 2010 and if you can, 2013. Although be careful with 2013. Many client DB features were removed. A2010 is the last full featured version of Access for client(desktop) DB's. There was a bug in JET/ACE in relation to multi-core processors running under 64 bit OS's. Not sure when it was fixed. Microsoft was pretty mum about it (it's never been documented to my knowledge). 2010 should certainly have the fix, but A2007 may not. It was discovered when Windows Server 2008 R2 was released. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 All, We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically e-mailed to select employees. We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running Windows Server 2012 R2. Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows Server 2012 R2? Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Thu May 22 21:52:15 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 02:52:15 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs In-Reply-To: <1298983612.52674376.1400812952920.JavaMail.root@cds018> References: <78b83dac0af04b048c34a41aecd09f62@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <1298983612.52674376.1400812952920.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: Yeah. Same here. Run the query as a view or SP server side and pull only the results into a temp local table and then do your thang from there. Remove temp data when finished. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, 23 May 2014 12:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs Historically, pass-through reporting is excruciatingly slow. I have always use a SP to gather the report info, downloaded the data to a local dummy table and printed locally. This process can reduce report start times from 30 minutes plus to a couple of seconds. Check out the ancient solution: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newsletters/newsletter112003/0311UnboundReports.asp Not all of the sample is necessary just the core code of around a 50 to 60 line solution. HTH Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Marks" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:24:35 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs All, Thanks to everyone who shared their ideas and insights on this topic. I downloaded and installed Access 2010 Runtime this morning. I have run a number of small tests and so far everything works nicely. However, all of the reports seem to run MUCH longer than before (about twice as long). Example - Old Server - Access 2007 Runtime - Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server - Access 2010 Runtime - Report800 - 31 Minutes I sort of remember earlier posts here on AccessD regarding excessive run times. It seems like someone suggested possible "printer issues", but I can't remember for sure. Any ideas on these extended run times would be most appreciated. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:04 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 Use 2010 and if you can, 2013. Although be careful with 2013. Many client DB features were removed. A2010 is the last full featured version of Access for client(desktop) DB's. There was a bug in JET/ACE in relation to multi-core processors running under 64 bit OS's. Not sure when it was fixed. Microsoft was pretty mum about it (it's never been documented to my knowledge). 2010 should certainly have the fix, but A2007 may not. It was discovered when Windows Server 2008 R2 was released. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 All, We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically e-mailed to select employees. We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running Windows Server 2012 R2. Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows Server 2012 R2? Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Fri May 23 07:56:04 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 12:56:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs In-Reply-To: References: <78b83dac0af04b048c34a41aecd09f62@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <1298983612.52674376.1400812952920.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: Jim and Darryl, Thanks for the advice to use a view or SP. I plan to look into this down the road. For the short term, I would really like to understand why our reports are running much slower with the new server as shown by the info below. Old Server (about 10 years old) Access 2007 Runtime Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server (much faster processer and a lot more RAM) Access 2010 Runtime Report800 - 31 Minutes I believe that there is some other factor coming into the picture here that I don't understand. 64 Bit OS ? Printer Assignments ? Access 2010 ? Sunspots? Demonic forces? :-) Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs Yeah. Same here. Run the query as a view or SP server side and pull only the results into a temp local table and then do your thang from there. Remove temp data when finished. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, 23 May 2014 12:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs Historically, pass-through reporting is excruciatingly slow. I have always use a SP to gather the report info, downloaded the data to a local dummy table and printed locally. This process can reduce report start times from 30 minutes plus to a couple of seconds. Check out the ancient solution: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newsletters/newsletter112003/0311UnboundReports.asp Not all of the sample is necessary just the core code of around a 50 to 60 line solution. HTH Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Marks" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:24:35 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs All, Thanks to everyone who shared their ideas and insights on this topic. I downloaded and installed Access 2010 Runtime this morning. I have run a number of small tests and so far everything works nicely. However, all of the reports seem to run MUCH longer than before (about twice as long). Example - Old Server - Access 2007 Runtime - Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server - Access 2010 Runtime - Report800 - 31 Minutes I sort of remember earlier posts here on AccessD regarding excessive run times. It seems like someone suggested possible "printer issues", but I can't remember for sure. Any ideas on these extended run times would be most appreciated. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:04 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 Use 2010 and if you can, 2013. Although be careful with 2013. Many client DB features were removed. A2010 is the last full featured version of Access for client(desktop) DB's. There was a bug in JET/ACE in relation to multi-core processors running under 64 bit OS's. Not sure when it was fixed. Microsoft was pretty mum about it (it's never been documented to my knowledge). 2010 should certainly have the fix, but A2007 may not. It was discovered when Windows Server 2008 R2 was released. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 All, We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically e-mailed to select employees. We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running Windows Server 2012 R2. Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows Server 2012 R2? Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri May 23 08:16:26 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 09:16:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs In-Reply-To: References: <78b83dac0af04b048c34a41aecd09f62@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <1298983612.52674376.1400812952920.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: Brad, Watch out for unavailable printers or drives. Make sure your anti-virus is skipping the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 08:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs Jim and Darryl, Thanks for the advice to use a view or SP. I plan to look into this down the road. For the short term, I would really like to understand why our reports are running much slower with the new server as shown by the info below. Old Server (about 10 years old) Access 2007 Runtime Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server (much faster processer and a lot more RAM) Access 2010 Runtime Report800 - 31 Minutes I believe that there is some other factor coming into the picture here that I don't understand. 64 Bit OS ? Printer Assignments ? Access 2010 ? Sunspots? Demonic forces? :-) Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs Yeah. Same here. Run the query as a view or SP server side and pull only the results into a temp local table and then do your thang from there. Remove temp data when finished. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, 23 May 2014 12:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs Historically, pass-through reporting is excruciatingly slow. I have always use a SP to gather the report info, downloaded the data to a local dummy table and printed locally. This process can reduce report start times from 30 minutes plus to a couple of seconds. Check out the ancient solution: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newsletters/newsletter112003/0311UnboundRepo rts.asp Not all of the sample is necessary just the core code of around a 50 to 60 line solution. HTH Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Marks" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:24:35 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs All, Thanks to everyone who shared their ideas and insights on this topic. I downloaded and installed Access 2010 Runtime this morning. I have run a number of small tests and so far everything works nicely. However, all of the reports seem to run MUCH longer than before (about twice as long). Example - Old Server - Access 2007 Runtime - Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server - Access 2010 Runtime - Report800 - 31 Minutes I sort of remember earlier posts here on AccessD regarding excessive run times. It seems like someone suggested possible "printer issues", but I can't remember for sure. Any ideas on these extended run times would be most appreciated. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:04 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 Use 2010 and if you can, 2013. Although be careful with 2013. Many client DB features were removed. A2010 is the last full featured version of Access for client(desktop) DB's. There was a bug in JET/ACE in relation to multi-core processors running under 64 bit OS's. Not sure when it was fixed. Microsoft was pretty mum about it (it's never been documented to my knowledge). 2010 should certainly have the fix, but A2007 may not. It was discovered when Windows Server 2008 R2 was released. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 All, We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically e-mailed to select employees. We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running Windows Server 2012 R2. Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows Server 2012 R2? Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Fri May 23 11:47:41 2014 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 12:47:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 In-Reply-To: <005901cf756a$87f690e0$97e3b2a0$@gmail.com> References: <005901cf756a$87f690e0$97e3b2a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <02c901cf76a6$b6febbf0$24fc33d0$@net> Re: " I liked Access 2010 fairly well and there is no way I would use any Office 2007 products unless someone put a gun to my head." Understatement of the century.....2007 was horrific. From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 23 11:49:25 2014 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 16:49:25 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Message-ID: <4d6c9a2a2bfd400daca4a90da84e06d2@AMSPR06MB311.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Hi all Just attended for three days the Office 365 Summit here following the SharePoint developer track. Besides that Office 365 including SharePoint moves so fast - and will continue to do so - that you will have a hard time to get up to speed, an interesting statement was, that Access has a top-priority for creating "Access style" apps running in SharePoint which is mostly anything involving more than one table/list or a spreadsheet. Currently, as we know, these Access apps are quite limited because the only programming language is the new weird macros. Why it is so, we were told, is because the macros are converted to SQL stored procedures behind the scene, and this is because the "Access" tables actually are SQL tables in an SQL Server database created for the app. But the Access team is currently working on big changes (those were the words) to improve the features of Access/SharePoint combined. This is the only focus for the team, thus - if you were in doubt - you can forget about any improvement or new feature in Access not related to SharePoint. Also, now I understand why it was so hard to understand programming in SharePoint. The reason is simple; the previous SharePoint SOLUTIONs from up to SP2010 (which are very difficult to program and deploy) are left behind in SP2013 and onward in favour of SharePoint APPs. SP solutions can still be programmed and will run, but you should only follow that route for special cases. These apps are written in JavaScript and CSS, so if you have wondered if you should learn JavaScript or not, don't hesitate - just start, better tomorrow than the day after tomorrow. And while you are at it, get familiar with REST, OData and JSON because this is how all apps in Office 365 will communicate. /gustav From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri May 23 13:05:14 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 14:05:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) In-Reply-To: <4d6c9a2a2bfd400daca4a90da84e06d2@AMSPR06MB311.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> References: <4d6c9a2a2bfd400daca4a90da84e06d2@AMSPR06MB311.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <0275C0B8C7BF46ACAA4DA534A4E05C52@XPS> You summed it up very well. I can't say too much because I'm under a NDA, but anyone looking back over the previous couple of versions should realize that development on the desktop side is done. Microsoft has made the web it's focus and it's nothing but the web. Access 2010 was the last full featured desktop version for anyone used to working with Access these past twenty years. << But the Access team is currently working on big changes (those were the words) to improve the features of Access/SharePoint combined.>> Certainly they will because as you pointed out, that's where all the resources will be spent, but I would not hold my breath on the "big" changes. A Microsoft employee posted on a public blog a while back about Access and suggested that Excel be used for reporting. That suggests no report writer. And looking at the current A2013 web app offering, all you have is basic CRUD operations and everything looks the same. Forms, controls, and events are all very limited. The current recommendation for whatever a web app won't handle is to use a desktop database and a "hybrid" approach to app development. I really wish that had just made the web side a separate product. There's so much confusion from users over the fact that "Access" is not in any way, shape, or form "Access" when you take it to the web. It's a totally different animal and a totally different product. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 12:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Hi all Just attended for three days the Office 365 Summit here following the SharePoint developer track. Besides that Office 365 including SharePoint moves so fast - and will continue to do so - that you will have a hard time to get up to speed, an interesting statement was, that Access has a top-priority for creating "Access style" apps running in SharePoint which is mostly anything involving more than one table/list or a spreadsheet. Currently, as we know, these Access apps are quite limited because the only programming language is the new weird macros. Why it is so, we were told, is because the macros are converted to SQL stored procedures behind the scene, and this is because the "Access" tables actually are SQL tables in an SQL Server database created for the app. But the Access team is currently working on big changes (those were the words) to improve the features of Access/SharePoint combined. This is the only focus for the team, thus - if you were in doubt - you can forget about any improvement or new feature in Access not related to SharePoint. Also, now I understand why it was so hard to understand programming in SharePoint. The reason is simple; the previous SharePoint SOLUTIONs from up to SP2010 (which are very difficult to program and deploy) are left behind in SP2013 and onward in favour of SharePoint APPs. SP solutions can still be programmed and will run, but you should only follow that route for special cases. These apps are written in JavaScript and CSS, so if you have wondered if you should learn JavaScript or not, don't hesitate - just start, better tomorrow than the day after tomorrow. And while you are at it, get familiar with REST, OData and JSON because this is how all apps in Office 365 will communicate. /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Fri May 23 13:09:18 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 14:09:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) In-Reply-To: <0275C0B8C7BF46ACAA4DA534A4E05C52@XPS> References: <4d6c9a2a2bfd400daca4a90da84e06d2@AMSPR06MB311.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> <0275C0B8C7BF46ACAA4DA534A4E05C52@XPS> Message-ID: <022001cf76b2$2a5232c0$7ef69840$@gmail.com> >> Access 2010 was the last full featured desktop version for anyone used to working with Access these past twenty years. In what way is Access 2013 NOT full featured that 2010 was?? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 2:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) You summed it up very well. I can't say too much because I'm under a NDA, but anyone looking back over the previous couple of versions should realize that development on the desktop side is done. Microsoft has made the web it's focus and it's nothing but the web. Access 2010 was the last full featured desktop version for anyone used to working with Access these past twenty years. << But the Access team is currently working on big changes (those were the words) to improve the features of Access/SharePoint combined.>> Certainly they will because as you pointed out, that's where all the resources will be spent, but I would not hold my breath on the "big" changes. A Microsoft employee posted on a public blog a while back about Access and suggested that Excel be used for reporting. That suggests no report writer. And looking at the current A2013 web app offering, all you have is basic CRUD operations and everything looks the same. Forms, controls, and events are all very limited. The current recommendation for whatever a web app won't handle is to use a desktop database and a "hybrid" approach to app development. I really wish that had just made the web side a separate product. There's so much confusion from users over the fact that "Access" is not in any way, shape, or form "Access" when you take it to the web. It's a totally different animal and a totally different product. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 12:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Hi all Just attended for three days the Office 365 Summit here following the SharePoint developer track. Besides that Office 365 including SharePoint moves so fast - and will continue to do so - that you will have a hard time to get up to speed, an interesting statement was, that Access has a top-priority for creating "Access style" apps running in SharePoint which is mostly anything involving more than one table/list or a spreadsheet. Currently, as we know, these Access apps are quite limited because the only programming language is the new weird macros. Why it is so, we were told, is because the macros are converted to SQL stored procedures behind the scene, and this is because the "Access" tables actually are SQL tables in an SQL Server database created for the app. But the Access team is currently working on big changes (those were the words) to improve the features of Access/SharePoint combined. This is the only focus for the team, thus - if you were in doubt - you can forget about any improvement or new feature in Access not related to SharePoint. Also, now I understand why it was so hard to understand programming in SharePoint. The reason is simple; the previous SharePoint SOLUTIONs from up to SP2010 (which are very difficult to program and deploy) are left behind in SP2013 and onward in favour of SharePoint APPs. SP solutions can still be programmed and will run, but you should only follow that route for special cases. These apps are written in JavaScript and CSS, so if you have wondered if you should learn JavaScript or not, don't hesitate - just start, better tomorrow than the day after tomorrow. And while you are at it, get familiar with REST, OData and JSON because this is how all apps in Office 365 will communicate. /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Fri May 23 13:16:07 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 18:16:07 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Slow Report Generation In-Reply-To: <02c901cf76a6$b6febbf0$24fc33d0$@net> References: <005901cf756a$87f690e0$97e3b2a0$@gmail.com> <02c901cf76a6$b6febbf0$24fc33d0$@net> Message-ID: <861e09593c6346a2938934de6d6bf55c@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> All, I have run a number of tests and tried a number of changes. The anti-virus software was removed temporarily. A printer was added to the new server. I added a little log file to capture info from the Access application. Still, the report generation runs much slower on the new server than the old server (about twice as long) Again, here is what I am working with... Access application developed with Access 2007 Deployed via Access 2010 Runtime Running on a new Server (VMWARE) - Virtual Machine uses Windows Server 2012 R2 (which is 64 bit) One other interesting fact - When I look at the Windows Task Manager while the application is running, I often see the message "Not responding" - even though I can see the CPU % changing. I do not see excessive CPU or Memory usage. It "feels" like the ap is waiting on something, but what? Any ideas on how resolve this issue would be most appreciated. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 11:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 Re: " I liked Access 2010 fairly well and there is no way I would use any Office 2007 products unless someone put a gun to my head." Understatement of the century.....2007 was horrific. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ewaldt at gdls.com Fri May 23 13:29:40 2014 From: ewaldt at gdls.com (ewaldt at gdls.com) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 14:29:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Finding the levels in a bill of material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I found the error in my code and corrected it. It works well now. My thanks to all who offered help. Tom Ewald Mass Properties General Dynamics Land Systems From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri May 23 14:42:08 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 15:42:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) In-Reply-To: <022001cf76b2$2a5232c0$7ef69840$@gmail.com> References: <4d6c9a2a2bfd400daca4a90da84e06d2@AMSPR06MB311.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> <0275C0B8C7BF46ACAA4DA534A4E05C52@XPS> <022001cf76b2$2a5232c0$7ef69840$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7EBA90CC3D5D47FC89CC4790812BB2A8@XPS> A2013 doesn't support command bars...it's now no longer possible to hide the ribbon. A2013 doesn't support JET 3.x or prior. You can no longer open anything prior to A2000. A2013 doesn't support the DBF format. A2013 doesn't support ADP's. A2013 doesn't support replication. A2013 pivot charts and tables are gone. So from the desktop viewpoint, A2013 no longer has a number of features which we've used over the years. Hence it was the last "full" version. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 02:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) >> Access 2010 was the last full featured desktop version for anyone used to working with Access these past twenty years. In what way is Access 2013 NOT full featured that 2010 was?? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 2:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) You summed it up very well. I can't say too much because I'm under a NDA, but anyone looking back over the previous couple of versions should realize that development on the desktop side is done. Microsoft has made the web it's focus and it's nothing but the web. Access 2010 was the last full featured desktop version for anyone used to working with Access these past twenty years. << But the Access team is currently working on big changes (those were the words) to improve the features of Access/SharePoint combined.>> Certainly they will because as you pointed out, that's where all the resources will be spent, but I would not hold my breath on the "big" changes. A Microsoft employee posted on a public blog a while back about Access and suggested that Excel be used for reporting. That suggests no report writer. And looking at the current A2013 web app offering, all you have is basic CRUD operations and everything looks the same. Forms, controls, and events are all very limited. The current recommendation for whatever a web app won't handle is to use a desktop database and a "hybrid" approach to app development. I really wish that had just made the web side a separate product. There's so much confusion from users over the fact that "Access" is not in any way, shape, or form "Access" when you take it to the web. It's a totally different animal and a totally different product. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 12:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Hi all Just attended for three days the Office 365 Summit here following the SharePoint developer track. Besides that Office 365 including SharePoint moves so fast - and will continue to do so - that you will have a hard time to get up to speed, an interesting statement was, that Access has a top-priority for creating "Access style" apps running in SharePoint which is mostly anything involving more than one table/list or a spreadsheet. Currently, as we know, these Access apps are quite limited because the only programming language is the new weird macros. Why it is so, we were told, is because the macros are converted to SQL stored procedures behind the scene, and this is because the "Access" tables actually are SQL tables in an SQL Server database created for the app. But the Access team is currently working on big changes (those were the words) to improve the features of Access/SharePoint combined. This is the only focus for the team, thus - if you were in doubt - you can forget about any improvement or new feature in Access not related to SharePoint. Also, now I understand why it was so hard to understand programming in SharePoint. The reason is simple; the previous SharePoint SOLUTIONs from up to SP2010 (which are very difficult to program and deploy) are left behind in SP2013 and onward in favour of SharePoint APPs. SP solutions can still be programmed and will run, but you should only follow that route for special cases. These apps are written in JavaScript and CSS, so if you have wondered if you should learn JavaScript or not, don't hesitate - just start, better tomorrow than the day after tomorrow. And while you are at it, get familiar with REST, OData and JSON because this is how all apps in Office 365 will communicate. /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 23 14:51:47 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 13:51:47 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <194338485.53231029.1400874707342.JavaMail.root@cds018> Hi Brad: My only question is why did you tolerated the system taking 14 minutes to run a report...that in itself was unacceptable. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Marks" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 5:56:04 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs Jim and Darryl, Thanks for the advice to use a view or SP. I plan to look into this down the road. For the short term, I would really like to understand why our reports are running much slower with the new server as shown by the info below. Old Server (about 10 years old) Access 2007 Runtime Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server (much faster processer and a lot more RAM) Access 2010 Runtime Report800 - 31 Minutes I believe that there is some other factor coming into the picture here that I don't understand. 64 Bit OS ? Printer Assignments ? Access 2010 ? Sunspots? Demonic forces? :-) Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs Yeah. Same here. Run the query as a view or SP server side and pull only the results into a temp local table and then do your thang from there. Remove temp data when finished. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, 23 May 2014 12:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs Historically, pass-through reporting is excruciatingly slow. I have always use a SP to gather the report info, downloaded the data to a local dummy table and printed locally. This process can reduce report start times from 30 minutes plus to a couple of seconds. Check out the ancient solution: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newsletters/newsletter112003/0311UnboundReports.asp Not all of the sample is necessary just the core code of around a 50 to 60 line solution. HTH Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Marks" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:24:35 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs All, Thanks to everyone who shared their ideas and insights on this topic. I downloaded and installed Access 2010 Runtime this morning. I have run a number of small tests and so far everything works nicely. However, all of the reports seem to run MUCH longer than before (about twice as long). Example - Old Server - Access 2007 Runtime - Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server - Access 2010 Runtime - Report800 - 31 Minutes I sort of remember earlier posts here on AccessD regarding excessive run times. It seems like someone suggested possible "printer issues", but I can't remember for sure. Any ideas on these extended run times would be most appreciated. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:04 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 Use 2010 and if you can, 2013. Although be careful with 2013. Many client DB features were removed. A2010 is the last full featured version of Access for client(desktop) DB's. There was a bug in JET/ACE in relation to multi-core processors running under 64 bit OS's. Not sure when it was fixed. Microsoft was pretty mum about it (it's never been documented to my knowledge). 2010 should certainly have the fix, but A2007 may not. It was discovered when Windows Server 2008 R2 was released. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 All, We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically e-mailed to select employees. We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running Windows Server 2012 R2. Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows Server 2012 R2? Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Fri May 23 15:03:43 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 16:03:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Dealing with downsteram effects in manual field information based on bound form controls Message-ID: <023001cf76c2$26804ff0$7380efd0$@gmail.com> I am starting to run into some struggles with bound controls. I wonder if I will find agreement in this crowd. My current situation is that I have companies, drivers, events, and scheduled notifications (associated with those events) in a CRM-like tool. The reminders can be auto-generated based on data in those tables, or can be over-ridden. I am not storing the default reminder text because it can be created via a formula, and does not need to be referenced except as a basis for manual reminder text, or to create a reminder at time of send. Manual text is beyond the effects of changes in other table data; but this is not to say that it should not be re-validated with the user as changes occur. For example, one default reminder might be "Dear [William Benson], Your [truck needs to be inspected] on or before [June 15th, 2014]. Please attend to this and notify [DriverUpdates at ABC.COM] of the completion date and the updated due date. This is your [2nd] reminder. Sincerely, [Joe at ABC.Com]". If alternate reminder at time=T1, is "Dear Bill etc" instead of "Dear William Benson etc". this is no longer linked in any way to the other raw data. The driver can later be changed from William Benson to Jonathan Appleseed in one of two ways, without impacting "Dear Bill". FKDriverID might get changed in the Event table to a value that that retrieves the name Jonathan Appleseed from the Drivers table; or the Drivers table name associated ID = Event.FKDriverID might get updated from William Benson to Jonathan Appleseed. I recognize my duty as programmer to be aware when these changes occur, and their impact on reminder text (and other free-form data) in the database. I feel it is easier to handle this at a form level of validation and not at a field level of validation. And that it is easier to do with unbound controls, rather than have to put data checks in the BeforeUpdate events of all controls that might impact a downstream record. Anyone have comments on this? From bradm at blackforestltd.com Fri May 23 16:01:55 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 21:01:55 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs In-Reply-To: <194338485.53231029.1400874707342.JavaMail.root@cds018> References: , <194338485.53231029.1400874707342.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: <101BAFD7-082B-4082-BCAB-A06FAA3EEF3D@blackforestltd.com> Jim, Good question. This is a bit of a different animal. It is a very complicated report that has very complicated underlying queries. It is run as a scheduled job at night in unattended mode. Because it is being run in unattended mode, the run time is not critical. However, when the run time doubled when we tested it on a brand new, very fast machine, I became curious why this should happen. Our "on demand" reports all run in 1 - 10 seconds. They need to be fast, as users are waiting for them. Brad > On May 23, 2014, at 2:53 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > > Hi Brad: > > My only question is why did you tolerated the system taking 14 minutes to run a report...that in itself was unacceptable. > > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad Marks" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 5:56:04 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs > > Jim and Darryl, > > Thanks for the advice to use a view or SP. I plan to look into this down the road. > > For the short term, I would really like to understand why our reports are running much slower with the new server as shown by the info below. > > > > > Old Server (about 10 years old) > Access 2007 Runtime > Report800 - 14 Minutes > > > New Server (much faster processer and a lot more RAM) > Access 2010 Runtime > Report800 - 31 Minutes > > > I believe that there is some other factor coming into the picture here that I don't understand. > > 64 Bit OS ? > Printer Assignments ? > Access 2010 ? > Sunspots? > Demonic forces? :-) > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs > > Yeah. Same here. > > Run the query as a view or SP server side and pull only the results into a temp local table and then do your thang from there. Remove temp data when finished. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Friday, 23 May 2014 12:43 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs > > Historically, pass-through reporting is excruciatingly slow. > > I have always use a SP to gather the report info, downloaded the data to a local dummy table and printed locally. This process can reduce report start times from 30 minutes plus to a couple of seconds. > > Check out the ancient solution: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newsletters/newsletter112003/0311UnboundReports.asp > > Not all of the sample is necessary just the core code of around a 50 to 60 line solution. > > HTH > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad Marks" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:24:35 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs > > All, > > Thanks to everyone who shared their ideas and insights on this topic. > > I downloaded and installed Access 2010 Runtime this morning. > > I have run a number of small tests and so far everything works nicely. > > However, all of the reports seem to run MUCH longer than before (about twice as long). > > Example - > > Old Server - Access 2007 Runtime - Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server - Access 2010 Runtime - Report800 - 31 Minutes > > I sort of remember earlier posts here on AccessD regarding excessive run times. It seems like someone suggested possible "printer issues", but I can't remember for sure. > > Any ideas on these extended run times would be most appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:04 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 > > > Use 2010 and if you can, 2013. Although be careful with 2013. Many client > DB features were removed. A2010 is the last full featured version of > Access for client(desktop) DB's. > > There was a bug in JET/ACE in relation to multi-core processors running under 64 bit OS's. Not sure when it was fixed. Microsoft was pretty mum about it (it's never been documented to my knowledge). > > 2010 should certainly have the fix, but A2007 may not. It was discovered when Windows Server 2008 R2 was released. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 > > All, > > We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically e-mailed to select employees. > > We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running Windows Server 2012 R2. > > Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows Server > 2012 R2? > > Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 23 16:11:33 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 15:11:33 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) In-Reply-To: <4d6c9a2a2bfd400daca4a90da84e06d2@AMSPR06MB311.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <52396341.53293484.1400879493543.JavaMail.root@cds018> Hi Gustav: "...These apps are written in JavaScript and CSS, so if you have wondered if you should learn JavaScript or not, don't hesitate - just start, better tomorrow than the day after tomorrow..." I could not agree with you more and I have been saying that for years. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 9:49:25 AM Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Hi all Just attended for three days the Office 365 Summit here following the SharePoint developer track. Besides that Office 365 including SharePoint moves so fast - and will continue to do so - that you will have a hard time to get up to speed, an interesting statement was, that Access has a top-priority for creating "Access style" apps running in SharePoint which is mostly anything involving more than one table/list or a spreadsheet. Currently, as we know, these Access apps are quite limited because the only programming language is the new weird macros. Why it is so, we were told, is because the macros are converted to SQL stored procedures behind the scene, and this is because the "Access" tables actually are SQL tables in an SQL Server database created for the app. But the Access team is currently working on big changes (those were the words) to improve the features of Access/SharePoint combined. This is the only focus for the team, thus - if you were in doubt - you can forget about any improvement or new feature in Access not related to SharePoint. Also, now I understand why it was so hard to understand programming in SharePoint. The reason is simple; the previous SharePoint SOLUTIONs from up to SP2010 (which are very difficult to program and deploy) are left behind in SP2013 and onward in favour of SharePoint APPs. SP solutions can still be programmed and will run, but you should only follow that route for special cases. These apps are written in JavaScript and CSS, so if you have wondered if you should learn JavaScript or not, don't hesitate - just start, better tomorrow than the day after tomorrow. And while you are at it, get familiar with REST, OData and JSON because this is how all apps in Office 365 will communicate. /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri May 23 16:17:17 2014 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 17:17:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) In-Reply-To: <52396341.53293484.1400879493543.JavaMail.root@cds018> References: <4d6c9a2a2bfd400daca4a90da84e06d2@AMSPR06MB311.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> <52396341.53293484.1400879493543.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: Me too. The only thing I might add is that it's ultimately counter-productive to leap straight into jQuery, Angular, etc. before first getting a grounding in JS itself. A. On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Gustav: > > "...These apps are written in JavaScript and CSS, so if you have wondered > if you should learn JavaScript or not, don't hesitate - just start, better > tomorrow than the day after tomorrow..." > > I could not agree with you more and I have been saying that for years. > > Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 23 17:53:56 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 16:53:56 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <260316183.53358366.1400885636959.JavaMail.root@cds018> Hi Arthur: JQuery and the dozen of other excellent libraries are only JS and are just there to help make very complex problems easy to solve. You should always know the basics of course. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 2:17:17 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Me too. The only thing I might add is that it's ultimately counter-productive to leap straight into jQuery, Angular, etc. before first getting a grounding in JS itself. A. On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Gustav: > > "...These apps are written in JavaScript and CSS, so if you have wondered > if you should learn JavaScript or not, don't hesitate - just start, better > tomorrow than the day after tomorrow..." > > I could not agree with you more and I have been saying that for years. > > Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 24 05:14:06 2014 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 10:14:06 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) In-Reply-To: References: <4d6c9a2a2bfd400daca4a90da84e06d2@AMSPR06MB311.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> <52396341.53293484.1400879493543.JavaMail.root@cds018>, Message-ID: <1400926445879.44369@cactus.dk> Hi all I felt I had some black spots, so I turned to MVA and started from the ground: http://www.microsoftvirtualacademy.com/Studies/SearchResult.aspx?q=javascript /gustav ________________________________________ Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com p? vegne af Arthur Fuller Sendt: 23. maj 2014 23:17 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Me too. The only thing I might add is that it's ultimately counter-productive to leap straight into jQuery, Angular, etc. before first getting a grounding in JS itself. A. On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Gustav: > > "...These apps are written in JavaScript and CSS, so if you have wondered > if you should learn JavaScript or not, don't hesitate - just start, better > tomorrow than the day after tomorrow..." > > I could not agree with you more and I have been saying that for years. > > Jim From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 24 09:54:55 2014 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 14:54:55 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] accessusergroups.org/ Message-ID: <1400943294959.19783@cactus.dk> Hi all This may be insteresting to some. Virtual Access Groups sponsored by Office 365: http://accessusergroups.org/ Seems like scheduled virtual meetings rather than traditional fora - including a free Access 2013 license. /gustav From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 24 10:30:32 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 09:30:32 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) In-Reply-To: <1400926445879.44369@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <884491320.53685066.1400945432226.JavaMail.root@cds018> Hi Gustav: Now that is a good link. You did mean "blank"? ;-) Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 3:14:06 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Hi all I felt I had some black spots, so I turned to MVA and started from the ground: http://www.microsoftvirtualacademy.com/Studies/SearchResult.aspx?q=javascript /gustav ________________________________________ Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com p? vegne af Arthur Fuller Sendt: 23. maj 2014 23:17 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Me too. The only thing I might add is that it's ultimately counter-productive to leap straight into jQuery, Angular, etc. before first getting a grounding in JS itself. A. On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Gustav: > > "...These apps are written in JavaScript and CSS, so if you have wondered > if you should learn JavaScript or not, don't hesitate - just start, better > tomorrow than the day after tomorrow..." > > I could not agree with you more and I have been saying that for years. > > Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Sat May 24 10:46:49 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 15:46:49 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - Mystery Solved "Maybe" In-Reply-To: <194338485.53231029.1400874707342.JavaMail.root@cds018> References: <194338485.53231029.1400874707342.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: <2c80246dd48045c580f03f0c5ff4829b@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> All, I think that I may have stumbled upon the reason why report generation is taking so long on our new server. On my PC, I discovered that there was a printer named "Adobe PDF". When I ran the report generation job (which creates reports in PDF format), the run time was about 4 minutes as compared to 14 minutes on our old server and 31 minutes on our new server. Neither the old server or the new server have a printer named "Adobe PDF". Is sure seems that the reason for the long run times is the lack of an "Adobe PDF" printer on both the old and the new server. Here's the catch. I am not sure how the Adobe PDF printer was set up on my PC (probably done by someone else about 5 years ago). Therefore, I am not sure how to establish an Adobe PDF printer on the new server. Any insight on how to do this would be appreciated. Thanks, Brad PS. I am also puzzled as to how the PDF reports could be generated without the Adobe PDF printer. The reports were generated very slowly, but they were generated. I am curious as to why they were generated at all. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 2:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs Hi Brad: My only question is why did you tolerated the system taking 14 minutes to run a report...that in itself was unacceptable. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Marks" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 5:56:04 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs Jim and Darryl, Thanks for the advice to use a view or SP. I plan to look into this down the road. For the short term, I would really like to understand why our reports are running much slower with the new server as shown by the info below. Old Server (about 10 years old) Access 2007 Runtime Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server (much faster processer and a lot more RAM) Access 2010 Runtime Report800 - 31 Minutes I believe that there is some other factor coming into the picture here that I don't understand. 64 Bit OS ? Printer Assignments ? Access 2010 ? Sunspots? Demonic forces? :-) Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs Yeah. Same here. Run the query as a view or SP server side and pull only the results into a temp local table and then do your thang from there. Remove temp data when finished. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, 23 May 2014 12:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs Historically, pass-through reporting is excruciatingly slow. I have always use a SP to gather the report info, downloaded the data to a local dummy table and printed locally. This process can reduce report start times from 30 minutes plus to a couple of seconds. Check out the ancient solution: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newsletters/newsletter112003/0311UnboundReports.asp Not all of the sample is necessary just the core code of around a 50 to 60 line solution. HTH Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Marks" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:24:35 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs All, Thanks to everyone who shared their ideas and insights on this topic. I downloaded and installed Access 2010 Runtime this morning. I have run a number of small tests and so far everything works nicely. However, all of the reports seem to run MUCH longer than before (about twice as long). Example - Old Server - Access 2007 Runtime - Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server - Access 2010 Runtime - Report800 - 31 Minutes I sort of remember earlier posts here on AccessD regarding excessive run times. It seems like someone suggested possible "printer issues", but I can't remember for sure. Any ideas on these extended run times would be most appreciated. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:04 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 Use 2010 and if you can, 2013. Although be careful with 2013. Many client DB features were removed. A2010 is the last full featured version of Access for client(desktop) DB's. There was a bug in JET/ACE in relation to multi-core processors running under 64 bit OS's. Not sure when it was fixed. Microsoft was pretty mum about it (it's never been documented to my knowledge). 2010 should certainly have the fix, but A2007 may not. It was discovered when Windows Server 2008 R2 was released. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 All, We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically e-mailed to select employees. We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running Windows Server 2012 R2. Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows Server 2012 R2? Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat May 24 11:17:37 2014 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 12:17:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] accessusergroups.org/ In-Reply-To: <1400943294959.19783@cactus.dk> References: <1400943294959.19783@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Gustav, Thanks for the link. I hadn't planned on migrating to Office 2013 but hell, for a free license... Arthur On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi all > > > > This may be insteresting to some. Virtual Access Groups sponsored by > Office 365: > > > > http://accessusergroups.org/ > > > > Seems like scheduled virtual meetings rather than traditional fora - > including a free Access 2013 license. > > > > /gustav > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Arthur From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 24 11:47:16 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 10:47:16 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] accessusergroups.org/ In-Reply-To: <1400943294959.19783@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <1841042663.53728263.1400950036376.JavaMail.root@cds018> Hi Gustav: Very interesting...this definitely requires further investigation. Aside: Everyone needs to go to a software conference once in while. :-) Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 7:54:55 AM Subject: [AccessD] accessusergroups.org/ Hi all This may be insteresting to some. Virtual Access Groups sponsored by Office 365: http://accessusergroups.org/ Seems like scheduled virtual meetings rather than traditional fora - including a free Access 2013 license. /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat May 24 12:32:07 2014 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 10:32:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] accessusergroups.org/ In-Reply-To: <1400943294959.19783@cactus.dk> References: <1400943294959.19783@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Juan Soto and Ben Clothier are Access mvps and Juan, at least, was at the PAUG conference the first weekend of May. They also both have thriving companies that use Access in solutions they provide. I signed so I can hang out with these guys more than once a year. Charlotte On May 24, 2014 7:56 AM, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi all > > > > This may be insteresting to some. Virtual Access Groups sponsored by > Office 365: > > > > http://accessusergroups.org/ > > > > Seems like scheduled virtual meetings rather than traditional fora - > including a free Access 2013 license. > > > > /gustav > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat May 24 17:15:29 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 08:15:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - Mystery Solved "Maybe" In-Reply-To: <2c80246dd48045c580f03f0c5ff4829b@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: , <194338485.53231029.1400874707342.JavaMail.root@cds018>, <2c80246dd48045c580f03f0c5ff4829b@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <53811A01.7803.EE2CA10@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Two alternatives to installing the Adobe PDF Printer: 1. If it 's Access 2010, don't print to a PDF printer, output direct to PDF instead, 2. Try installing a different PDF printer and printing to that instead, such as PDFCreator. Both are likely to be much faster. Adobe is a dog. . -- Stuart On 24 May 2014 at 15:46, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > I think that I may have stumbled upon the reason why report generation > is taking so long on our new server. > > On my PC, I discovered that there was a printer named "Adobe PDF". > When I ran the report generation job (which creates reports in PDF > format), the run time was about 4 minutes as compared to 14 minutes on > our old server and 31 minutes on our new server. > > Neither the old server or the new server have a printer named "Adobe > PDF". > > Is sure seems that the reason for the long run times is the lack of an > "Adobe PDF" printer on both the old and the new server. > > Here's the catch. I am not sure how the Adobe PDF printer was set up > on my PC (probably done by someone else about 5 years ago). > Therefore, I am not sure how to establish an Adobe PDF printer on the > new server. > > Any insight on how to do this would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > PS. I am also puzzled as to how the PDF reports could be generated > without the Adobe PDF printer. The reports were generated very > slowly, but they were generated. I am curious as to why they were > generated at all. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 2:52 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 > Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs > > Hi Brad: > > My only question is why did you tolerated the system taking 14 minutes > to run a report...that in itself was unacceptable. > > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad Marks" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 5:56:04 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - > Long Running Report Jobs > > Jim and Darryl, > > Thanks for the advice to use a view or SP. I plan to look into this > down the road. > > For the short term, I would really like to understand why our reports > are running much slower with the new server as shown by the info > below. > > > > > Old Server (about 10 years old) > Access 2007 Runtime > Report800 - 14 Minutes > > > New Server (much faster processer and a lot more RAM) > Access 2010 Runtime > Report800 - 31 Minutes > > > I believe that there is some other factor coming into the picture here > that I don't understand. > > 64 Bit OS ? > Printer Assignments ? > Access 2010 ? > Sunspots? > Demonic forces? :-) > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > Collins Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:52 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 > Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs > > Yeah. Same here. > > Run the query as a view or SP server side and pull only the results > into a temp local table and then do your thang from there. Remove > temp data when finished. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence Sent: Friday, 23 May 2014 12:43 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 > Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs > > Historically, pass-through reporting is excruciatingly slow. > > I have always use a SP to gather the report info, downloaded the data > to a local dummy table and printed locally. This process can reduce > report start times from 30 minutes plus to a couple of seconds. > > Check out the ancient solution: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newsletters/newsletter112003/0311Unbou > ndReports.asp > > Not all of the sample is necessary just the core code of around a 50 > to 60 line solution. > > HTH > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad Marks" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:24:35 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - > Long Running Report Jobs > > All, > > Thanks to everyone who shared their ideas and insights on this topic. > > I downloaded and installed Access 2010 Runtime this morning. > > I have run a number of small tests and so far everything works nicely. > > However, all of the reports seem to run MUCH longer than before (about > twice as long). > > Example - > > Old Server - Access 2007 Runtime - Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server - > Access 2010 Runtime - Report800 - 31 Minutes > > I sort of remember earlier posts here on AccessD regarding excessive > run times. It seems like someone suggested possible "printer issues", > but I can't remember for sure. > > Any ideas on these extended run times would be most appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:04 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on > Windows Server 2012 R2 > > > Use 2010 and if you can, 2013. Although be careful with 2013. Many > client > DB features were removed. A2010 is the last full featured version of > Access for client(desktop) DB's. > > There was a bug in JET/ACE in relation to multi-core processors > running under 64 bit OS's. Not sure when it was fixed. Microsoft > was pretty mum about it (it's never been documented to my knowledge). > > 2010 should certainly have the fix, but A2007 may not. It was > discovered when Windows Server 2008 R2 was released. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime > on Windows Server 2012 R2 > > All, > > We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under > Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs > every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server > database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically > e-mailed to select employees. > > We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running > Windows Server 2012 R2. > > Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows > Server 2012 R2? > > Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat May 24 17:16:53 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 08:16:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] accessusergroups.org/ In-Reply-To: References: <1400943294959.19783@cactus.dk>, Message-ID: <53811A55.19237.EE410B0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You can hang out with Juan at least on the PMADG on LinkedIn. He's a regular there. On 24 May 2014 at 10:32, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Juan Soto and Ben Clothier are Access mvps and Juan, at least, was > at the PAUG conference the first weekend of May. They also both have > thriving companies that use Access in solutions they provide. > > I signed so I can hang out with these guys more than once a year. > > Charlotte > On May 24, 2014 7:56 AM, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > > > Hi all > > > > > > > > This may be insteresting to some. Virtual Access Groups sponsored by > > Office 365: > > > > > > > > http://accessusergroups.org/ > > > > > > > > Seems like scheduled virtual meetings rather than traditional fora - > > including a free Access 2013 license. > > > > > > > > /gustav > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bradm at blackforestltd.com Sat May 24 17:41:50 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 22:41:50 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - Mystery Solved "Maybe" In-Reply-To: <53811A01.7803.EE2CA10@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <194338485.53231029.1400874707342.JavaMail.root@cds018>, <2c80246dd48045c580f03f0c5ff4829b@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <53811A01.7803.EE2CA10@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <2e786a3b305d4bca9cb8e51c5a03caf9@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Stuart, Thanks for your help. I am not sure what you mean by "output direct to PDF instead". Here is the command that I am currently using to generate the report as a PDF file. DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, _ Str_Report_Name, _ "PDFFormat(*.pdf)", _ str_Generated_Report_File_Name, _ False, _ "", _ 0, _ acExportQualityPrint I am unclear how the assigned printer comes into play, but from several tests it appears that if the assigned printer is "Adobe PDF" the generation of the report runs much faster. Perhaps there is a better way to do what I am trying to do. Thanks, Brad ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 5:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - Mystery Solved "Maybe" Two alternatives to installing the Adobe PDF Printer: 1. If it 's Access 2010, don't print to a PDF printer, output direct to PDF instead, 2. Try installing a different PDF printer and printing to that instead, such as PDFCreator. Both are likely to be much faster. Adobe is a dog. . -- Stuart On 24 May 2014 at 15:46, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > I think that I may have stumbled upon the reason why report generation > is taking so long on our new server. > > On my PC, I discovered that there was a printer named "Adobe PDF". > When I ran the report generation job (which creates reports in PDF > format), the run time was about 4 minutes as compared to 14 minutes on > our old server and 31 minutes on our new server. > > Neither the old server or the new server have a printer named "Adobe > PDF". > > Is sure seems that the reason for the long run times is the lack of an > "Adobe PDF" printer on both the old and the new server. > > Here's the catch. I am not sure how the Adobe PDF printer was set up > on my PC (probably done by someone else about 5 years ago). > Therefore, I am not sure how to establish an Adobe PDF printer on the > new server. > > Any insight on how to do this would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > PS. I am also puzzled as to how the PDF reports could be generated > without the Adobe PDF printer. The reports were generated very > slowly, but they were generated. I am curious as to why they were > generated at all. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 2:52 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 > Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs > > Hi Brad: > > My only question is why did you tolerated the system taking 14 minutes > to run a report...that in itself was unacceptable. > > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad Marks" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 5:56:04 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - > Long Running Report Jobs > > Jim and Darryl, > > Thanks for the advice to use a view or SP. I plan to look into this > down the road. > > For the short term, I would really like to understand why our reports > are running much slower with the new server as shown by the info > below. > > > > > Old Server (about 10 years old) > Access 2007 Runtime > Report800 - 14 Minutes > > > New Server (much faster processer and a lot more RAM) Access 2010 > Runtime > Report800 - 31 Minutes > > > I believe that there is some other factor coming into the picture here > that I don't understand. > > 64 Bit OS ? > Printer Assignments ? > Access 2010 ? > Sunspots? > Demonic forces? :-) > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > Collins Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:52 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 > Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs > > Yeah. Same here. > > Run the query as a view or SP server side and pull only the results > into a temp local table and then do your thang from there. Remove > temp data when finished. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence Sent: Friday, 23 May 2014 12:43 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 > Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs > > Historically, pass-through reporting is excruciatingly slow. > > I have always use a SP to gather the report info, downloaded the data > to a local dummy table and printed locally. This process can reduce > report start times from 30 minutes plus to a couple of seconds. > > Check out the ancient solution: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newsletters/newsletter112003/0311Unbou > ndReports.asp > > Not all of the sample is necessary just the core code of around a 50 > to 60 line solution. > > HTH > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad Marks" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:24:35 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - > Long Running Report Jobs > > All, > > Thanks to everyone who shared their ideas and insights on this topic. > > I downloaded and installed Access 2010 Runtime this morning. > > I have run a number of small tests and so far everything works nicely. > > However, all of the reports seem to run MUCH longer than before (about > twice as long). > > Example - > > Old Server - Access 2007 Runtime - Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server - > Access 2010 Runtime - Report800 - 31 Minutes > > I sort of remember earlier posts here on AccessD regarding excessive > run times. It seems like someone suggested possible "printer issues", > but I can't remember for sure. > > Any ideas on these extended run times would be most appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:04 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on > Windows Server 2012 R2 > > > Use 2010 and if you can, 2013. Although be careful with 2013. Many > client > DB features were removed. A2010 is the last full featured version of > Access for client(desktop) DB's. > > There was a bug in JET/ACE in relation to multi-core processors > running under 64 bit OS's. Not sure when it was fixed. Microsoft > was pretty mum about it (it's never been documented to my knowledge). > > 2010 should certainly have the fix, but A2007 may not. It was > discovered when Windows Server 2008 R2 was released. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime > on Windows Server 2012 R2 > > All, > > We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under > Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs > every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server > database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically > e-mailed to select employees. > > We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running > Windows Server 2012 R2. > > Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under Windows > Server 2012 R2? > > Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Sat May 24 18:14:45 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 19:14:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RESOLVED: Dealing with downsteram effects in manual field information based on bound form controls Message-ID: <030f01cf77a5$f4e4fab0$deaef010$@gmail.com> Thanks to those who read this in either List... resolved thanks to Emilia Maxim (Access-L) steering me in the right direction with a reminder about Form BeforeUpdate. This response forced me to set up a test table and a test form, and try what I have only until now, merely had some preconceived - and wrong - notions about. I now understand field level Before and After Update events and how they differ from the form's events of the same name. I had though that the control's beforeupdate event was the last place to stop an unwanted change - not so! I see that up to and including the Form's Before Update event, one has a handle to OldValue for any bound control, which is also Null for an unsaved record regardless how many times one might have passed through that control's AfterUpdate event. Thank You Emilia - I will use the Form BeforeUpdate event! I will have more trouble before I am done with this application I am sure. Here are some interesting(?) corollaries of this, for people who like me have been using DLOOKUP and SQL and RecordsetClone to get values from a recordsource in times past, due to more work with unbound controls: Until Form BeforeUpdate has completed with cancel still False, DLOOKUP() and Recordsetclone and any query of the field that is tied to a control's ControlSource will retrieve the same information as the OldValue property of the bound control, regardless how many times that control's BeforeUpdate event has completed with Cancel = False. Setting Cancel = TRUE in a control's BeforeUpdate event seems to have the effect of forcing the user to be unable to leave that control during editing, except to click Escape. Am I wrong in saying this has about the same effect as Field.Locked = True? Bill -----Original Message----- From: Microsoft Access Database Discussion List [mailto:ACCESS-L at PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM] On Behalf Of Emilia Maxim Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 6:15 PM To: ACCESS-L at PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM Subject: Re: Dealing with downsteram effects in manual field information based on bound form controls Bill, > reminder text (and other free-form data) in the database. I feel it is > easier to handle this at a form level of validation and not at a field > level of validation. And that it is easier to do with unbound > controls, rather than have to put data checks in the BeforeUpdate > events of all controls that might impact a downstream record. Then why not the form's BeforeUpdate event? -- Regards Emilia, TWIG Emilia Maxim PC-SoftwareService Stuttgart, Germany -----Original Message----- From: Bill Benson [mailto:bensonforums at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 4:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Dealing with downsteram effects in manual field information based on bound form controls I am starting to run into some struggles with bound controls. I wonder if I will find agreement in this crowd. My current situation is that I have companies, drivers, events, and scheduled notifications (associated with those events) in a CRM-like tool. The reminders can be auto-generated based on data in those tables, or can be over-ridden. I am not storing the default reminder text because it can be created via a formula, and does not need to be referenced except as a basis for manual reminder text, or to create a reminder at time of send. Manual text is beyond the effects of changes in other table data; but this is not to say that it should not be re-validated with the user as changes occur. For example, one default reminder might be "Dear [William Benson], Your [truck needs to be inspected] on or before [June 15th, 2014]. Please attend to this and notify [DriverUpdates at ABC.COM] of the completion date and the updated due date. This is your [2nd] reminder. Sincerely, [Joe at ABC.Com]". If alternate reminder at time=T1, is "Dear Bill etc" instead of "Dear William Benson etc". this is no longer linked in any way to the other raw data. The driver can later be changed from William Benson to Jonathan Appleseed in one of two ways, without impacting "Dear Bill". FKDriverID might get changed in the Event table to a value that that retrieves the name Jonathan Appleseed from the Drivers table; or the Drivers table name associated ID = Event.FKDriverID might get updated from William Benson to Jonathan Appleseed. I recognize my duty as programmer to be aware when these changes occur, and their impact on reminder text (and other free-form data) in the database. I feel it is easier to handle this at a form level of validation and not at a field level of validation. And that it is easier to do with unbound controls, rather than have to put data checks in the BeforeUpdate events of all controls that might impact a downstream record. Anyone have comments on this? From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat May 24 19:10:34 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 10:10:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - Mystery Solved "Maybe" In-Reply-To: <2e786a3b305d4bca9cb8e51c5a03caf9@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: , <53811A01.7803.EE2CA10@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <2e786a3b305d4bca9cb8e51c5a03caf9@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <538134FA.19245.F4C278C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> OK, you *are* outputting direct to PDF, so scratch that idea. Under the Print Options - "Page Setup - Page" , is it set up to print to Default Printer or to a specific printer. If specific, what printer - and was/is that printer configured on the old/new servers? -- Stuart On 24 May 2014 at 22:41, Brad Marks wrote: > Stuart, > > Thanks for your help. > > I am not sure what you mean by "output direct to PDF instead". > > > Here is the command that I am currently using to generate the report > as a PDF file. > > > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, _ > Str_Report_Name, _ > "PDFFormat(*.pdf)", _ > str_Generated_Report_File_Name, _ > False, _ > "", _ > 0, _ > acExportQualityPrint > > > I am unclear how the assigned printer comes into play, but from > several tests it appears that if the assigned printer is "Adobe PDF" > the generation of the report runs much faster. > > Perhaps there is a better way to do what I am trying to do. > > Thanks, > Brad > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 5:15 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 > Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - Mystery > Solved "Maybe" > > Two alternatives to installing the Adobe PDF Printer: > > 1. If it 's Access 2010, don't print to a PDF printer, output direct > to PDF instead, > > 2. Try installing a different PDF printer and printing to that > instead, such as PDFCreator. > > > Both are likely to be much faster. Adobe is a dog. . > > -- > Stuart > > On 24 May 2014 at 15:46, Brad Marks wrote: > > > All, > > > > I think that I may have stumbled upon the reason why report > > generation is taking so long on our new server. > > > > On my PC, I discovered that there was a printer named "Adobe PDF". > > When I ran the report generation job (which creates reports in PDF > > format), the run time was about 4 minutes as compared to 14 minutes > > on our old server and 31 minutes on our new server. > > > > Neither the old server or the new server have a printer named "Adobe > > PDF". > > > > Is sure seems that the reason for the long run times is the lack of > > an "Adobe PDF" printer on both the old and the new server. > > > > Here's the catch. I am not sure how the Adobe PDF printer was set > > up on my PC (probably done by someone else about 5 years ago). > > Therefore, I am not sure how to establish an Adobe PDF printer on > > the new server. > > > > Any insight on how to do this would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > PS. I am also puzzled as to how the PDF reports could be generated > > without the Adobe PDF printer. The reports were generated very > > slowly, but they were generated. I am curious as to why they were > > generated at all. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > > Lawrence Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 2:52 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 > > Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs > > > > Hi Brad: > > > > My only question is why did you tolerated the system taking 14 > > minutes to run a report...that in itself was unacceptable. > > > > Jim > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 5:56:04 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 > > - Long Running Report Jobs > > > > Jim and Darryl, > > > > Thanks for the advice to use a view or SP. I plan to look into this > > down the road. > > > > For the short term, I would really like to understand why our > > reports are running much slower with the new server as shown by the > > info below. > > > > > > > > > > Old Server (about 10 years old) > > Access 2007 Runtime > > Report800 - 14 Minutes > > > > > > New Server (much faster processer and a lot more RAM) Access 2010 > > Runtime Report800 - 31 Minutes > > > > > > I believe that there is some other factor coming into the picture > > here that I don't understand. > > > > 64 Bit OS ? > > Printer Assignments ? > > Access 2010 ? > > Sunspots? > > Demonic forces? :-) > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > > Collins Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:52 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 > > Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs > > > > Yeah. Same here. > > > > Run the query as a view or SP server side and pull only the results > > into a temp local table and then do your thang from there. Remove > > temp data when finished. > > > > Cheers > > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > > Lawrence Sent: Friday, 23 May 2014 12:43 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 > > Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs > > > > Historically, pass-through reporting is excruciatingly slow. > > > > I have always use a SP to gather the report info, downloaded the > > data to a local dummy table and printed locally. This process can > > reduce report start times from 30 minutes plus to a couple of > > seconds. > > > > Check out the ancient solution: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newsletters/newsletter112003/0311Unb > > ou ndReports.asp > > > > Not all of the sample is necessary just the core code of around a 50 > > to 60 line solution. > > > > HTH > > Jim > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brad Marks" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:24:35 > > PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 > > R2 - Long Running Report Jobs > > > > All, > > > > Thanks to everyone who shared their ideas and insights on this > > topic. > > > > I downloaded and installed Access 2010 Runtime this morning. > > > > I have run a number of small tests and so far everything works > > nicely. > > > > However, all of the reports seem to run MUCH longer than before > > (about twice as long). > > > > Example - > > > > Old Server - Access 2007 Runtime - Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server > > - Access 2010 Runtime - Report800 - 31 Minutes > > > > I sort of remember earlier posts here on AccessD regarding excessive > > run times. It seems like someone suggested possible "printer > > issues", but I can't remember for sure. > > > > Any ideas on these extended run times would be most appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > > Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:04 AM To: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 > > Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 > > > > > > Use 2010 and if you can, 2013. Although be careful with 2013. > > Many > > client > > DB features were removed. A2010 is the last full featured version > > of Access for client(desktop) DB's. > > > > There was a bug in JET/ACE in relation to multi-core processors > > running under 64 bit OS's. Not sure when it was fixed. Microsoft > > was pretty mum about it (it's never been documented to my > > knowledge). > > > > 2010 should certainly have the fix, but A2007 may not. It was > > discovered when Windows Server 2008 R2 was released. > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad > > Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 > > Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 > > > > All, > > > > We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under > > Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs > > every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server > > database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically > > e-mailed to select employees. > > > > We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running > > Windows Server 2012 R2. > > > > Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under > > Windows Server 2012 R2? > > > > Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bradm at blackforestltd.com Sat May 24 19:21:03 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 00:21:03 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - Mystery Solved "Maybe" In-Reply-To: <538134FA.19245.F4C278C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <53811A01.7803.EE2CA10@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <2e786a3b305d4bca9cb8e51c5a03caf9@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>, <538134FA.19245.F4C278C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Stuart, Both the old server and the new server are set to use the default printer which is a Ricoh multifunction printer. On another PC, I changed the printer to be "Adobe PDF". When I then ran the same test generation of the report, it ran much faster than either the old server or the new server. "Adobe PDF" is not available on either the old server or the new server, however. Brad > On May 24, 2014, at 7:11 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > > OK, you *are* outputting direct to PDF, so scratch that idea. > > Under the Print Options - "Page Setup - Page" , is it set up to print to Default Printer or to a > specific printer. If specific, what printer - and was/is that printer configured on the old/new > servers? > > -- > Stuart > >> On 24 May 2014 at 22:41, Brad Marks wrote: >> >> Stuart, >> >> Thanks for your help. >> >> I am not sure what you mean by "output direct to PDF instead". >> >> >> Here is the command that I am currently using to generate the report >> as a PDF file. >> >> >> DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, _ >> Str_Report_Name, _ >> "PDFFormat(*.pdf)", _ >> str_Generated_Report_File_Name, _ >> False, _ >> "", _ >> 0, _ >> acExportQualityPrint >> >> >> I am unclear how the assigned printer comes into play, but from >> several tests it appears that if the assigned printer is "Adobe PDF" >> the generation of the report runs much faster. >> >> Perhaps there is a better way to do what I am trying to do. >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 5:15 PM To: Access Developers >> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - Mystery >> Solved "Maybe" >> >> Two alternatives to installing the Adobe PDF Printer: >> >> 1. If it 's Access 2010, don't print to a PDF printer, output direct >> to PDF instead, >> >> 2. Try installing a different PDF printer and printing to that >> instead, such as PDFCreator. >> >> >> Both are likely to be much faster. Adobe is a dog. . >> >> -- >> Stuart >> >>> On 24 May 2014 at 15:46, Brad Marks wrote: >>> >>> All, >>> >>> I think that I may have stumbled upon the reason why report >>> generation is taking so long on our new server. >>> >>> On my PC, I discovered that there was a printer named "Adobe PDF". >>> When I ran the report generation job (which creates reports in PDF >>> format), the run time was about 4 minutes as compared to 14 minutes >>> on our old server and 31 minutes on our new server. >>> >>> Neither the old server or the new server have a printer named "Adobe >>> PDF". >>> >>> Is sure seems that the reason for the long run times is the lack of >>> an "Adobe PDF" printer on both the old and the new server. >>> >>> Here's the catch. I am not sure how the Adobe PDF printer was set >>> up on my PC (probably done by someone else about 5 years ago). >>> Therefore, I am not sure how to establish an Adobe PDF printer on >>> the new server. >>> >>> Any insight on how to do this would be appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Brad >>> >>> PS. I am also puzzled as to how the PDF reports could be generated >>> without the Adobe PDF printer. The reports were generated very >>> slowly, but they were generated. I am curious as to why they were >>> generated at all. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >>> Lawrence Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 2:52 PM To: Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> Hi Brad: >>> >>> My only question is why did you tolerated the system taking 14 >>> minutes to run a report...that in itself was unacceptable. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brad Marks" >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 5:56:04 AM >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 >>> - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> Jim and Darryl, >>> >>> Thanks for the advice to use a view or SP. I plan to look into this >>> down the road. >>> >>> For the short term, I would really like to understand why our >>> reports are running much slower with the new server as shown by the >>> info below. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Old Server (about 10 years old) >>> Access 2007 Runtime >>> Report800 - 14 Minutes >>> >>> >>> New Server (much faster processer and a lot more RAM) Access 2010 >>> Runtime Report800 - 31 Minutes >>> >>> >>> I believe that there is some other factor coming into the picture >>> here that I don't understand. >>> >>> 64 Bit OS ? >>> Printer Assignments ? >>> Access 2010 ? >>> Sunspots? >>> Demonic forces? :-) >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Brad >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >>> Collins Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:52 PM To: Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> Yeah. Same here. >>> >>> Run the query as a view or SP server side and pull only the results >>> into a temp local table and then do your thang from there. Remove >>> temp data when finished. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Darryl. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >>> Lawrence Sent: Friday, 23 May 2014 12:43 PM To: Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> Historically, pass-through reporting is excruciatingly slow. >>> >>> I have always use a SP to gather the report info, downloaded the >>> data to a local dummy table and printed locally. This process can >>> reduce report start times from 30 minutes plus to a couple of >>> seconds. >>> >>> Check out the ancient solution: >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newsletters/newsletter112003/0311Unb >>> ou ndReports.asp >>> >>> Not all of the sample is necessary just the core code of around a 50 >>> to 60 line solution. >>> >>> HTH >>> Jim >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brad Marks" >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:24:35 >>> PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 >>> R2 - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> All, >>> >>> Thanks to everyone who shared their ideas and insights on this >>> topic. >>> >>> I downloaded and installed Access 2010 Runtime this morning. >>> >>> I have run a number of small tests and so far everything works >>> nicely. >>> >>> However, all of the reports seem to run MUCH longer than before >>> (about twice as long). >>> >>> Example - >>> >>> Old Server - Access 2007 Runtime - Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server >>> - Access 2010 Runtime - Report800 - 31 Minutes >>> >>> I sort of remember earlier posts here on AccessD regarding excessive >>> run times. It seems like someone suggested possible "printer >>> issues", but I can't remember for sure. >>> >>> Any ideas on these extended run times would be most appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Brad >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >>> Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:04 AM To: 'Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 >>> >>> >>> Use 2010 and if you can, 2013. Although be careful with 2013. >>> Many >>> client >>> DB features were removed. A2010 is the last full featured version >>> of Access for client(desktop) DB's. >>> >>> There was a bug in JET/ACE in relation to multi-core processors >>> running under 64 bit OS's. Not sure when it was fixed. Microsoft >>> was pretty mum about it (it's never been documented to my >>> knowledge). >>> >>> 2010 should certainly have the fix, but A2007 may not. It was >>> discovered when Windows Server 2008 R2 was released. >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad >>> Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 >>> >>> All, >>> >>> We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under >>> Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs >>> every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server >>> database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically >>> e-mailed to select employees. >>> >>> We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running >>> Windows Server 2012 R2. >>> >>> Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under >>> Windows Server 2012 R2? >>> >>> Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Brad >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat May 24 20:47:26 2014 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 18:47:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] accessusergroups.org/ In-Reply-To: <53811A55.19237.EE410B0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <1400943294959.19783@cactus.dk> <53811A55.19237.EE410B0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Yes, I know, but the threads seem to get so darn long! Charlotte On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > You can hang out with Juan at least on the PMADG on LinkedIn. He's a > regular there. > > > On 24 May 2014 at 10:32, Charlotte Foust wrote: > > > Juan Soto and Ben Clothier are Access mvps and Juan, at least, was > > at the PAUG conference the first weekend of May. They also both have > > thriving companies that use Access in solutions they provide. > > > > I signed so I can hang out with these guys more than once a year. > > > > Charlotte > > On May 24, 2014 7:56 AM, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > > > > > > > This may be insteresting to some. Virtual Access Groups sponsored by > > > Office 365: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://accessusergroups.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems like scheduled virtual meetings rather than traditional fora - > > > including a free Access 2013 license. > > > > > > > > > > > > /gustav > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 25 03:53:27 2014 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 08:53:27 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) In-Reply-To: <884491320.53685066.1400945432226.JavaMail.root@cds018> References: <1400926445879.44369@cactus.dk>, <884491320.53685066.1400945432226.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: <1401008006647.87138@cactus.dk> Hi Jim Ha. Yes i guess so. Or should it be white areas? Confusing. /gustav ________________________________________ Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com p? vegne af Jim Lawrence Sendt: 24. maj 2014 17:30 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Hi Gustav: Now that is a good link. You did mean "blank"? ;-) Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 3:14:06 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Hi all I felt I had some black spots, so I turned to MVA and started from the ground: http://www.microsoftvirtualacademy.com/Studies/SearchResult.aspx?q=javascript /gustav ________________________________________ Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com p? vegne af Arthur Fuller Sendt: 23. maj 2014 23:17 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Me too. The only thing I might add is that it's ultimately counter-productive to leap straight into jQuery, Angular, etc. before first getting a grounding in JS itself. A. On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Gustav: > > "...These apps are written in JavaScript and CSS, so if you have wondered > if you should learn JavaScript or not, don't hesitate - just start, better > tomorrow than the day after tomorrow..." > > I could not agree with you more and I have been saying that for years. > > Jim From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 25 12:01:11 2014 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 17:01:11 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] accessusergroups.org/ In-Reply-To: References: <1400943294959.19783@cactus.dk>, Message-ID: <1401037271405.62225@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte I joined the web app group. Let's see if I can manage to participate - those "evening" sessions are within business hours at this side. /gustav ________________________________________ Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com p? vegne af Charlotte Foust Sendt: 24. maj 2014 19:32 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] accessusergroups.org/ Juan Soto and Ben Clothier are Access mvps and Juan, at least, was at the PAUG conference the first weekend of May. They also both have thriving companies that use Access in solutions they provide. I signed so I can hang out with these guys more than once a year. Charlotte On May 24, 2014 7:56 AM, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi all > > This may be insteresting to some. Virtual Access Groups sponsored by > Office 365: > > http://accessusergroups.org/ > > Seems like scheduled virtual meetings rather than traditional fora - > including a free Access 2013 license. > > /gustav From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun May 25 12:08:39 2014 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 10:08:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - Mystery Solved "Maybe" In-Reply-To: <60Mv1o00Y0xgD8Z010MxZs> References: , <53811A01.7803.EE2CA10@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <2e786a3b305d4bca9cb8e51c5a03caf9@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>, <538134FA.19245.F4C278C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <60Mv1o00Y0xgD8Z010MxZs> Message-ID: <023001cf783b$f91350f0$eb39f2d0$@cox.net> Just got back from a trip and saw this thread. I just completed an update to a customer's system to output reports to pdf. The default printer on the system is a label printer used for generating inventory labels. Since the reports are generated in batches the customer wanted them placed in one pdf file. What I ended up doing is using a pdf print driver from BullZip, called Biopdf. This printer is easily configurable to do many interesting things with pdf, the one I was interested in was merging. There is a section on their site that gives some example code, vba, on configuring the print output at runtime. I set the report printer at runtime also. One interesting thing I found in using this system is that I had to put a time delay at the end of each report print, or the code would get ahead of the printer. Tried using doevents but that didn't seem to work. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - Mystery Solved "Maybe" Stuart, Both the old server and the new server are set to use the default printer which is a Ricoh multifunction printer. On another PC, I changed the printer to be "Adobe PDF". When I then ran the same test generation of the report, it ran much faster than either the old server or the new server. "Adobe PDF" is not available on either the old server or the new server, however. Brad > On May 24, 2014, at 7:11 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > > OK, you *are* outputting direct to PDF, so scratch that idea. > > Under the Print Options - "Page Setup - Page" , is it set up to print > to Default Printer or to a specific printer. If specific, what > printer - and was/is that printer configured on the old/new servers? > > -- > Stuart > >> On 24 May 2014 at 22:41, Brad Marks wrote: >> >> Stuart, >> >> Thanks for your help. >> >> I am not sure what you mean by "output direct to PDF instead". >> >> >> Here is the command that I am currently using to generate the report >> as a PDF file. >> >> >> DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, _ >> Str_Report_Name, _ >> "PDFFormat(*.pdf)", _ >> str_Generated_Report_File_Name, _ >> False, _ >> "", _ >> 0, _ >> acExportQualityPrint >> >> >> I am unclear how the assigned printer comes into play, but from >> several tests it appears that if the assigned printer is "Adobe PDF" >> the generation of the report runs much faster. >> >> Perhaps there is a better way to do what I am trying to do. >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 5:15 PM To: Access Developers >> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - >> Mystery Solved "Maybe" >> >> Two alternatives to installing the Adobe PDF Printer: >> >> 1. If it 's Access 2010, don't print to a PDF printer, output direct >> to PDF instead, >> >> 2. Try installing a different PDF printer and printing to that >> instead, such as PDFCreator. >> >> >> Both are likely to be much faster. Adobe is a dog. . >> >> -- >> Stuart >> >>> On 24 May 2014 at 15:46, Brad Marks wrote: >>> >>> All, >>> >>> I think that I may have stumbled upon the reason why report >>> generation is taking so long on our new server. >>> >>> On my PC, I discovered that there was a printer named "Adobe PDF". >>> When I ran the report generation job (which creates reports in PDF >>> format), the run time was about 4 minutes as compared to 14 minutes >>> on our old server and 31 minutes on our new server. >>> >>> Neither the old server or the new server have a printer named "Adobe >>> PDF". >>> >>> Is sure seems that the reason for the long run times is the lack of >>> an "Adobe PDF" printer on both the old and the new server. >>> >>> Here's the catch. I am not sure how the Adobe PDF printer was set >>> up on my PC (probably done by someone else about 5 years ago). >>> Therefore, I am not sure how to establish an Adobe PDF printer on >>> the new server. >>> >>> Any insight on how to do this would be appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Brad >>> >>> PS. I am also puzzled as to how the PDF reports could be generated >>> without the Adobe PDF printer. The reports were generated very >>> slowly, but they were generated. I am curious as to why they were >>> generated at all. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >>> Lawrence Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 2:52 PM To: Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> Hi Brad: >>> >>> My only question is why did you tolerated the system taking 14 >>> minutes to run a report...that in itself was unacceptable. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brad Marks" >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 5:56:04 AM >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 >>> - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> Jim and Darryl, >>> >>> Thanks for the advice to use a view or SP. I plan to look into this >>> down the road. >>> >>> For the short term, I would really like to understand why our >>> reports are running much slower with the new server as shown by the >>> info below. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Old Server (about 10 years old) >>> Access 2007 Runtime >>> Report800 - 14 Minutes >>> >>> >>> New Server (much faster processer and a lot more RAM) Access 2010 >>> Runtime Report800 - 31 Minutes >>> >>> >>> I believe that there is some other factor coming into the picture >>> here that I don't understand. >>> >>> 64 Bit OS ? >>> Printer Assignments ? >>> Access 2010 ? >>> Sunspots? >>> Demonic forces? :-) >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Brad >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >>> Collins Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:52 PM To: Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> Yeah. Same here. >>> >>> Run the query as a view or SP server side and pull only the results >>> into a temp local table and then do your thang from there. Remove >>> temp data when finished. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Darryl. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >>> Lawrence Sent: Friday, 23 May 2014 12:43 PM To: Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> Historically, pass-through reporting is excruciatingly slow. >>> >>> I have always use a SP to gather the report info, downloaded the >>> data to a local dummy table and printed locally. This process can >>> reduce report start times from 30 minutes plus to a couple of >>> seconds. >>> >>> Check out the ancient solution: >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newsletters/newsletter112003/0311Unb >>> ou ndReports.asp >>> >>> Not all of the sample is necessary just the core code of around a 50 >>> to 60 line solution. >>> >>> HTH >>> Jim >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brad Marks" >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:24:35 >>> PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 >>> R2 - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> All, >>> >>> Thanks to everyone who shared their ideas and insights on this >>> topic. >>> >>> I downloaded and installed Access 2010 Runtime this morning. >>> >>> I have run a number of small tests and so far everything works >>> nicely. >>> >>> However, all of the reports seem to run MUCH longer than before >>> (about twice as long). >>> >>> Example - >>> >>> Old Server - Access 2007 Runtime - Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server >>> - Access 2010 Runtime - Report800 - 31 Minutes >>> >>> I sort of remember earlier posts here on AccessD regarding excessive >>> run times. It seems like someone suggested possible "printer >>> issues", but I can't remember for sure. >>> >>> Any ideas on these extended run times would be most appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Brad >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >>> Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:04 AM To: 'Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 >>> >>> >>> Use 2010 and if you can, 2013. Although be careful with 2013. >>> Many >>> client >>> DB features were removed. A2010 is the last full featured version >>> of Access for client(desktop) DB's. >>> >>> There was a bug in JET/ACE in relation to multi-core processors >>> running under 64 bit OS's. Not sure when it was fixed. Microsoft >>> was pretty mum about it (it's never been documented to my >>> knowledge). >>> >>> 2010 should certainly have the fix, but A2007 may not. It was >>> discovered when Windows Server 2008 R2 was released. >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad >>> Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 >>> >>> All, >>> >>> We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under >>> Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs >>> every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server >>> database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically >>> e-mailed to select employees. >>> >>> We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running >>> Windows Server 2012 R2. >>> >>> Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under >>> Windows Server 2012 R2? >>> >>> Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Brad >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Sun May 25 16:31:21 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 21:31:21 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - Mystery Solved "Maybe" In-Reply-To: <023001cf783b$f91350f0$eb39f2d0$@cox.net> References: , <53811A01.7803.EE2CA10@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <2e786a3b305d4bca9cb8e51c5a03caf9@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>, <538134FA.19245.F4C278C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <60Mv1o00Y0xgD8Z010MxZs>,<023001cf783b$f91350f0$eb39f2d0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <1401053483452.72925@blackforestltd.com> Doug, Thanks for the info that you shared. I am still trying to better understand things regarding the generation of reports from Access 2007 as PDF files. The main question that I am wrestling with is how does the printer assignment affect the creation of reports (in PDF format). Here is the command that I am using to create an Access 2007 report as a PDF file. DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, _ Str_Report_Name, _ "PDFFormat(*.pdf)", _ str_Generated_Report_File_Name, _ False, _ "", _ 0, _ acExportQualityPrint I appears that this command is affected by the printer that is assigned. From my testing, it appears that the report will be generated much faster when the printer is set to "Adobe PDF". However, if the printer is set to a Ricoh printer, the OutputTo command will still work, it just takes a lot more time. I would like to better understand this. Thanks, Brad ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 12:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - Mystery Solved "Maybe" Just got back from a trip and saw this thread. I just completed an update to a customer's system to output reports to pdf. The default printer on the system is a label printer used for generating inventory labels. Since the reports are generated in batches the customer wanted them placed in one pdf file. What I ended up doing is using a pdf print driver from BullZip, called Biopdf. This printer is easily configurable to do many interesting things with pdf, the one I was interested in was merging. There is a section on their site that gives some example code, vba, on configuring the print output at runtime. I set the report printer at runtime also. One interesting thing I found in using this system is that I had to put a time delay at the end of each report print, or the code would get ahead of the printer. Tried using doevents but that didn't seem to work. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - Mystery Solved "Maybe" Stuart, Both the old server and the new server are set to use the default printer which is a Ricoh multifunction printer. On another PC, I changed the printer to be "Adobe PDF". When I then ran the same test generation of the report, it ran much faster than either the old server or the new server. "Adobe PDF" is not available on either the old server or the new server, however. Brad > On May 24, 2014, at 7:11 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > > OK, you *are* outputting direct to PDF, so scratch that idea. > > Under the Print Options - "Page Setup - Page" , is it set up to print > to Default Printer or to a specific printer. If specific, what > printer - and was/is that printer configured on the old/new servers? > > -- > Stuart > >> On 24 May 2014 at 22:41, Brad Marks wrote: >> >> Stuart, >> >> Thanks for your help. >> >> I am not sure what you mean by "output direct to PDF instead". >> >> >> Here is the command that I am currently using to generate the report >> as a PDF file. >> >> >> DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, _ >> Str_Report_Name, _ >> "PDFFormat(*.pdf)", _ >> str_Generated_Report_File_Name, _ >> False, _ >> "", _ >> 0, _ >> acExportQualityPrint >> >> >> I am unclear how the assigned printer comes into play, but from >> several tests it appears that if the assigned printer is "Adobe PDF" >> the generation of the report runs much faster. >> >> Perhaps there is a better way to do what I am trying to do. >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 5:15 PM To: Access Developers >> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - >> Mystery Solved "Maybe" >> >> Two alternatives to installing the Adobe PDF Printer: >> >> 1. If it 's Access 2010, don't print to a PDF printer, output direct >> to PDF instead, >> >> 2. Try installing a different PDF printer and printing to that >> instead, such as PDFCreator. >> >> >> Both are likely to be much faster. Adobe is a dog. . >> >> -- >> Stuart >> >>> On 24 May 2014 at 15:46, Brad Marks wrote: >>> >>> All, >>> >>> I think that I may have stumbled upon the reason why report >>> generation is taking so long on our new server. >>> >>> On my PC, I discovered that there was a printer named "Adobe PDF". >>> When I ran the report generation job (which creates reports in PDF >>> format), the run time was about 4 minutes as compared to 14 minutes >>> on our old server and 31 minutes on our new server. >>> >>> Neither the old server or the new server have a printer named "Adobe >>> PDF". >>> >>> Is sure seems that the reason for the long run times is the lack of >>> an "Adobe PDF" printer on both the old and the new server. >>> >>> Here's the catch. I am not sure how the Adobe PDF printer was set >>> up on my PC (probably done by someone else about 5 years ago). >>> Therefore, I am not sure how to establish an Adobe PDF printer on >>> the new server. >>> >>> Any insight on how to do this would be appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Brad >>> >>> PS. I am also puzzled as to how the PDF reports could be generated >>> without the Adobe PDF printer. The reports were generated very >>> slowly, but they were generated. I am curious as to why they were >>> generated at all. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >>> Lawrence Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 2:52 PM To: Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> Hi Brad: >>> >>> My only question is why did you tolerated the system taking 14 >>> minutes to run a report...that in itself was unacceptable. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brad Marks" >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 5:56:04 AM >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 >>> - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> Jim and Darryl, >>> >>> Thanks for the advice to use a view or SP. I plan to look into this >>> down the road. >>> >>> For the short term, I would really like to understand why our >>> reports are running much slower with the new server as shown by the >>> info below. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Old Server (about 10 years old) >>> Access 2007 Runtime >>> Report800 - 14 Minutes >>> >>> >>> New Server (much faster processer and a lot more RAM) Access 2010 >>> Runtime Report800 - 31 Minutes >>> >>> >>> I believe that there is some other factor coming into the picture >>> here that I don't understand. >>> >>> 64 Bit OS ? >>> Printer Assignments ? >>> Access 2010 ? >>> Sunspots? >>> Demonic forces? :-) >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Brad >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >>> Collins Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:52 PM To: Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> Yeah. Same here. >>> >>> Run the query as a view or SP server side and pull only the results >>> into a temp local table and then do your thang from there. Remove >>> temp data when finished. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Darryl. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >>> Lawrence Sent: Friday, 23 May 2014 12:43 PM To: Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> Historically, pass-through reporting is excruciatingly slow. >>> >>> I have always use a SP to gather the report info, downloaded the >>> data to a local dummy table and printed locally. This process can >>> reduce report start times from 30 minutes plus to a couple of >>> seconds. >>> >>> Check out the ancient solution: >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newsletters/newsletter112003/0311Unb >>> ou ndReports.asp >>> >>> Not all of the sample is necessary just the core code of around a 50 >>> to 60 line solution. >>> >>> HTH >>> Jim >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brad Marks" >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:24:35 >>> PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 >>> R2 - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> All, >>> >>> Thanks to everyone who shared their ideas and insights on this >>> topic. >>> >>> I downloaded and installed Access 2010 Runtime this morning. >>> >>> I have run a number of small tests and so far everything works >>> nicely. >>> >>> However, all of the reports seem to run MUCH longer than before >>> (about twice as long). >>> >>> Example - >>> >>> Old Server - Access 2007 Runtime - Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server >>> - Access 2010 Runtime - Report800 - 31 Minutes >>> >>> I sort of remember earlier posts here on AccessD regarding excessive >>> run times. It seems like someone suggested possible "printer >>> issues", but I can't remember for sure. >>> >>> Any ideas on these extended run times would be most appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Brad >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >>> Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:04 AM To: 'Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 >>> >>> >>> Use 2010 and if you can, 2013. Although be careful with 2013. >>> Many >>> client >>> DB features were removed. A2010 is the last full featured version >>> of Access for client(desktop) DB's. >>> >>> There was a bug in JET/ACE in relation to multi-core processors >>> running under 64 bit OS's. Not sure when it was fixed. Microsoft >>> was pretty mum about it (it's never been documented to my >>> knowledge). >>> >>> 2010 should certainly have the fix, but A2007 may not. It was >>> discovered when Windows Server 2008 R2 was released. >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad >>> Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 >>> >>> All, >>> >>> We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under >>> Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs >>> every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server >>> database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically >>> e-mailed to select employees. >>> >>> We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running >>> Windows Server 2012 R2. >>> >>> Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under >>> Windows Server 2012 R2? >>> >>> Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Brad >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon May 26 11:37:43 2014 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 17:37:43 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Test In-Reply-To: <023001cf783b$f91350f0$eb39f2d0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <116722D08BCF49A2B7C1E3F33A278986@MINSTER> Just seeing if this gets through. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon May 26 11:40:06 2014 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 17:40:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Test In-Reply-To: <116722D08BCF49A2B7C1E3F33A278986@MINSTER> Message-ID: ....and indeed it did -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: 26 May 2014 17:38 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Test Just seeing if this gets through. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul at wordwright.org Mon May 26 11:41:53 2014 From: paul at wordwright.org (paul) Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 17:41:53 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Test In-Reply-To: <116722D08BCF49A2B7C1E3F33A278986@MINSTER> References: <023001cf783b$f91350f0$eb39f2d0$@cox.net> <116722D08BCF49A2B7C1E3F33A278986@MINSTER> Message-ID: It does here in holidaying London (Spring Bank Holiday). All the best paul On 26 May 2014 17:37, Andy Lacey wrote: > Just seeing if this gets through. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- eBookTrove.com for absolutely free ebooks. No registration, no check-in, nothing to pay, in the original spirit of the internet. From carbonnb at gmail.com Mon May 26 11:43:40 2014 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 12:43:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Test In-Reply-To: <116722D08BCF49A2B7C1E3F33A278986@MINSTER> References: <023001cf783b$f91350f0$eb39f2d0$@cox.net> <116722D08BCF49A2B7C1E3F33A278986@MINSTER> Message-ID: Yep here too. On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Andy Lacey wrote: > Just seeing if this gets through. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon May 26 11:53:11 2014 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 09:53:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - Mystery Solved "Maybe" In-Reply-To: <6MYq1o00K0xgD8Z01MYs0W> References: , <53811A01.7803.EE2CA10@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <2e786a3b305d4bca9cb8e51c5a03caf9@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>, <538134FA.19245.F4C278C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <60Mv1o00Y0xgD8Z010MxZs>, <023001cf783b$f91350f0$eb39f2d0$@cox.net> <6MYq1o00K0xgD8Z01MYs0W> Message-ID: <003301cf7902$fa7daef0$ef790cd0$@cox.net> Brad, Here is what I use in the application that print reports to a merged pdf file. The merging is done in another section where the printer configuration is done. DoCmd.OpenReport "rpteBaySearchTransactionsWCriteria", acViewPreview, , , acHidden, sSQL Set Reports("rpteBaySearchTransactionsWCriteria").Printer = Application.Printers("PDF Writer - bioPDF") DoCmd.SelectObject acReport, "rpteBaySearchTransactionsWCriteria" DoCmd.PrintOut acPrintAll DoCmd.Close acReport, "rpteBaySearchTransactionsWCriteria" Set Application.Printer = Application.Printers(sDefaultPrinter) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 2:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - Mystery Solved "Maybe" Doug, Thanks for the info that you shared. I am still trying to better understand things regarding the generation of reports from Access 2007 as PDF files. The main question that I am wrestling with is how does the printer assignment affect the creation of reports (in PDF format). Here is the command that I am using to create an Access 2007 report as a PDF file. DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, _ Str_Report_Name, _ "PDFFormat(*.pdf)", _ str_Generated_Report_File_Name, _ False, _ "", _ 0, _ acExportQualityPrint I appears that this command is affected by the printer that is assigned. >From my testing, it appears that the report will be generated much faster when the printer is set to "Adobe PDF". However, if the printer is set to a Ricoh printer, the OutputTo command will still work, it just takes a lot more time. I would like to better understand this. Thanks, Brad ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 12:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - Mystery Solved "Maybe" Just got back from a trip and saw this thread. I just completed an update to a customer's system to output reports to pdf. The default printer on the system is a label printer used for generating inventory labels. Since the reports are generated in batches the customer wanted them placed in one pdf file. What I ended up doing is using a pdf print driver from BullZip, called Biopdf. This printer is easily configurable to do many interesting things with pdf, the one I was interested in was merging. There is a section on their site that gives some example code, vba, on configuring the print output at runtime. I set the report printer at runtime also. One interesting thing I found in using this system is that I had to put a time delay at the end of each report print, or the code would get ahead of the printer. Tried using doevents but that didn't seem to work. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - Mystery Solved "Maybe" Stuart, Both the old server and the new server are set to use the default printer which is a Ricoh multifunction printer. On another PC, I changed the printer to be "Adobe PDF". When I then ran the same test generation of the report, it ran much faster than either the old server or the new server. "Adobe PDF" is not available on either the old server or the new server, however. Brad > On May 24, 2014, at 7:11 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > wrote: > > OK, you *are* outputting direct to PDF, so scratch that idea. > > Under the Print Options - "Page Setup - Page" , is it set up to print > to Default Printer or to a specific printer. If specific, what > printer - and was/is that printer configured on the old/new servers? > > -- > Stuart > >> On 24 May 2014 at 22:41, Brad Marks wrote: >> >> Stuart, >> >> Thanks for your help. >> >> I am not sure what you mean by "output direct to PDF instead". >> >> >> Here is the command that I am currently using to generate the report >> as a PDF file. >> >> >> DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, _ >> Str_Report_Name, _ >> "PDFFormat(*.pdf)", _ >> str_Generated_Report_File_Name, _ >> False, _ >> "", _ >> 0, _ >> acExportQualityPrint >> >> >> I am unclear how the assigned printer comes into play, but from >> several tests it appears that if the assigned printer is "Adobe PDF" >> the generation of the report runs much faster. >> >> Perhaps there is a better way to do what I am trying to do. >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 5:15 PM To: Access Developers >> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs - >> Mystery Solved "Maybe" >> >> Two alternatives to installing the Adobe PDF Printer: >> >> 1. If it 's Access 2010, don't print to a PDF printer, output direct >> to PDF instead, >> >> 2. Try installing a different PDF printer and printing to that >> instead, such as PDFCreator. >> >> >> Both are likely to be much faster. Adobe is a dog. . >> >> -- >> Stuart >> >>> On 24 May 2014 at 15:46, Brad Marks wrote: >>> >>> All, >>> >>> I think that I may have stumbled upon the reason why report >>> generation is taking so long on our new server. >>> >>> On my PC, I discovered that there was a printer named "Adobe PDF". >>> When I ran the report generation job (which creates reports in PDF >>> format), the run time was about 4 minutes as compared to 14 minutes >>> on our old server and 31 minutes on our new server. >>> >>> Neither the old server or the new server have a printer named "Adobe >>> PDF". >>> >>> Is sure seems that the reason for the long run times is the lack of >>> an "Adobe PDF" printer on both the old and the new server. >>> >>> Here's the catch. I am not sure how the Adobe PDF printer was set >>> up on my PC (probably done by someone else about 5 years ago). >>> Therefore, I am not sure how to establish an Adobe PDF printer on >>> the new server. >>> >>> Any insight on how to do this would be appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Brad >>> >>> PS. I am also puzzled as to how the PDF reports could be generated >>> without the Adobe PDF printer. The reports were generated very >>> slowly, but they were generated. I am curious as to why they were >>> generated at all. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >>> Lawrence Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 2:52 PM To: Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> Hi Brad: >>> >>> My only question is why did you tolerated the system taking 14 >>> minutes to run a report...that in itself was unacceptable. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brad Marks" >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 5:56:04 AM >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 >>> - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> Jim and Darryl, >>> >>> Thanks for the advice to use a view or SP. I plan to look into this >>> down the road. >>> >>> For the short term, I would really like to understand why our >>> reports are running much slower with the new server as shown by the >>> info below. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Old Server (about 10 years old) >>> Access 2007 Runtime >>> Report800 - 14 Minutes >>> >>> >>> New Server (much faster processer and a lot more RAM) Access 2010 >>> Runtime Report800 - 31 Minutes >>> >>> >>> I believe that there is some other factor coming into the picture >>> here that I don't understand. >>> >>> 64 Bit OS ? >>> Printer Assignments ? >>> Access 2010 ? >>> Sunspots? >>> Demonic forces? :-) >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Brad >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >>> Collins Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:52 PM To: Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> Yeah. Same here. >>> >>> Run the query as a view or SP server side and pull only the results >>> into a temp local table and then do your thang from there. Remove >>> temp data when finished. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Darryl. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >>> Lawrence Sent: Friday, 23 May 2014 12:43 PM To: Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> Historically, pass-through reporting is excruciatingly slow. >>> >>> I have always use a SP to gather the report info, downloaded the >>> data to a local dummy table and printed locally. This process can >>> reduce report start times from 30 minutes plus to a couple of >>> seconds. >>> >>> Check out the ancient solution: >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newsletters/newsletter112003/0311Unb >>> ou ndReports.asp >>> >>> Not all of the sample is necessary just the core code of around a 50 >>> to 60 line solution. >>> >>> HTH >>> Jim >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brad Marks" >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:24:35 >>> PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Runtime on Windows Server 2012 >>> R2 - Long Running Report Jobs >>> >>> All, >>> >>> Thanks to everyone who shared their ideas and insights on this >>> topic. >>> >>> I downloaded and installed Access 2010 Runtime this morning. >>> >>> I have run a number of small tests and so far everything works >>> nicely. >>> >>> However, all of the reports seem to run MUCH longer than before >>> (about twice as long). >>> >>> Example - >>> >>> Old Server - Access 2007 Runtime - Report800 - 14 Minutes New Server >>> - Access 2010 Runtime - Report800 - 31 Minutes >>> >>> I sort of remember earlier posts here on AccessD regarding excessive >>> run times. It seems like someone suggested possible "printer >>> issues", but I can't remember for sure. >>> >>> Any ideas on these extended run times would be most appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Brad >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >>> Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:04 AM To: 'Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 >>> >>> >>> Use 2010 and if you can, 2013. Although be careful with 2013. >>> Many >>> client >>> DB features were removed. A2010 is the last full featured version >>> of Access for client(desktop) DB's. >>> >>> There was a bug in JET/ACE in relation to multi-core processors >>> running under 64 bit OS's. Not sure when it was fixed. Microsoft >>> was pretty mum about it (it's never been documented to my >>> knowledge). >>> >>> 2010 should certainly have the fix, but A2007 may not. It was >>> discovered when Windows Server 2008 R2 was released. >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad >>> Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 PM To: Access Developers >>> discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 >>> Runtime on Windows Server 2012 R2 >>> >>> All, >>> >>> We have a small Access 2007 "Runtime" application that runs under >>> Windows Small Business Server 2003. This scheduled application runs >>> every night in an unattended mode. It pulls data from a SQL Server >>> database and generates several reports (PDF) that are automatically >>> e-mailed to select employees. >>> >>> We are now migrating to new server hardware which will be running >>> Windows Server 2012 R2. >>> >>> Will an Access 2007 (Runtime) application work properly under >>> Windows Server 2012 R2? >>> >>> Would it be better to use Access 2010 Runtime? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Brad >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bryan at internode.on.net Mon May 26 16:09:05 2014 From: bryan at internode.on.net (Bryan Fitzpatrick) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 07:09:05 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Test In-Reply-To: References: <023001cf783b$f91350f0$eb39f2d0$@cox.net> <116722D08BCF49A2B7C1E3F33A278986@MINSTER> Message-ID: <5383AD71.8060506@internode.on.net> And Down Under Cheers */Bryan Fitzpatrick Mobile: 0418 618 469/* On 27/05/2014 2:43 AM, Bryan Carbonnell wrote: > Yep here too. > > On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Andy Lacey wrote: >> Just seeing if this gets through. >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3950/7562 - Release Date: 05/26/14 From bensonforums at gmail.com Mon May 26 16:31:26 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 17:31:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Test In-Reply-To: <5383AD71.8060506@internode.on.net> References: <023001cf783b$f91350f0$eb39f2d0$@cox.net> <116722D08BCF49A2B7C1E3F33A278986@MINSTER> <5383AD71.8060506@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Upstate New York represented! On May 26, 2014 5:10 PM, "Bryan Fitzpatrick" wrote: > And Down Under > > Cheers > */Bryan Fitzpatrick > Mobile: 0418 618 469/* > On 27/05/2014 2:43 AM, Bryan Carbonnell wrote: > >> Yep here too. >> >> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Andy Lacey >> wrote: >> >>> Just seeing if this gets through. >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3950/7562 - Release Date: 05/26/14 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bradm at blackforestltd.com Mon May 26 16:50:47 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 21:50:47 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Test In-Reply-To: References: <023001cf783b$f91350f0$eb39f2d0$@cox.net> <116722D08BCF49A2B7C1E3F33A278986@MINSTER> <5383AD71.8060506@internode.on.net>, Message-ID: <1401141048418.34961@blackforestltd.com> Lake Wobegon, Minnesota ... Ahoy ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Bill Benson Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 4:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Test Upstate New York represented! On May 26, 2014 5:10 PM, "Bryan Fitzpatrick" wrote: > And Down Under > > Cheers > */Bryan Fitzpatrick > Mobile: 0418 618 469/* > On 27/05/2014 2:43 AM, Bryan Carbonnell wrote: > >> Yep here too. >> >> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Andy Lacey >> wrote: >> >>> Just seeing if this gets through. >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3950/7562 - Release Date: 05/26/14 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon May 26 16:57:52 2014 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 22:57:52 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Test In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <22C1D6CA11D548259DD48D2082D79DFF@MINSTER> Good to know you're all awake -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: 26 May 2014 22:31 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Test Upstate New York represented! On May 26, 2014 5:10 PM, "Bryan Fitzpatrick" wrote: > And Down Under > > Cheers > */Bryan Fitzpatrick > Mobile: 0418 618 469/* > On 27/05/2014 2:43 AM, Bryan Carbonnell wrote: > >> Yep here too. >> >> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Andy Lacey >> wrote: >> >>> Just seeing if this gets through. >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3950/7562 - Release Date: 05/26/14 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ewaldt at gdls.com Tue May 27 05:45:56 2014 From: ewaldt at gdls.com (ewaldt at gdls.com) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 06:45:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow. Sounds like there's an opportunity for someone to create a good database development system for desktops out there, since Microsoft is apparently abandoning us. I have Office 2007 at home and at work; I have no interest in SharePoint. Using right-clicking is still really important in my apps - having no command bars in Access 2013 will negate that. When others here say it's basically web-based, I'm assuming that means intranets as well as the Internet. Even so, if the IT people don't want to set that up, it sounds like we're really stuck. Sure hope my company does not "upgrade" to Office 2013 any time soon. Tom Ewald Mass Properties General Dynamics Land Systems Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 15:42:08 -0400 From: "Jim Dettman" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) A2013 doesn't support command bars...it's now no longer possible to hide the ribbon. A2013 doesn't support JET 3.x or prior. You can no longer open anything prior to A2000. A2013 doesn't support the DBF format. A2013 doesn't support ADP's. A2013 doesn't support replication. A2013 pivot charts and tables are gone. So from the desktop viewpoint, A2013 no longer has a number of features which we've used over the years. Hence it was the last "full" version. Jim. From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue May 27 09:30:18 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 10:30:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) In-Reply-To: <7EBA90CC3D5D47FC89CC4790812BB2A8@XPS> References: <4d6c9a2a2bfd400daca4a90da84e06d2@AMSPR06MB311.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> <0275C0B8C7BF46ACAA4DA534A4E05C52@XPS> <022001cf76b2$2a5232c0$7ef69840$@gmail.com> <7EBA90CC3D5D47FC89CC4790812BB2A8@XPS> Message-ID: <004701cf79b8$3033acb0$909b0610$@gmail.com> Thanks Jim, once again you did MY homework...;-) And I love you for it! I'll try to do my own next time! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) A2013 doesn't support command bars...it's now no longer possible to hide the ribbon. A2013 doesn't support JET 3.x or prior. You can no longer open anything prior to A2000. A2013 doesn't support the DBF format. A2013 doesn't support ADP's. A2013 doesn't support replication. A2013 pivot charts and tables are gone. So from the desktop viewpoint, A2013 no longer has a number of features which we've used over the years. Hence it was the last "full" version. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 02:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) >> Access 2010 was the last full featured desktop version for anyone >> used to working with Access these past twenty years. In what way is Access 2013 NOT full featured that 2010 was?? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 2:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) You summed it up very well. I can't say too much because I'm under a NDA, but anyone looking back over the previous couple of versions should realize that development on the desktop side is done. Microsoft has made the web it's focus and it's nothing but the web. Access 2010 was the last full featured desktop version for anyone used to working with Access these past twenty years. << But the Access team is currently working on big changes (those were the words) to improve the features of Access/SharePoint combined.>> Certainly they will because as you pointed out, that's where all the resources will be spent, but I would not hold my breath on the "big" changes. A Microsoft employee posted on a public blog a while back about Access and suggested that Excel be used for reporting. That suggests no report writer. And looking at the current A2013 web app offering, all you have is basic CRUD operations and everything looks the same. Forms, controls, and events are all very limited. The current recommendation for whatever a web app won't handle is to use a desktop database and a "hybrid" approach to app development. I really wish that had just made the web side a separate product. There's so much confusion from users over the fact that "Access" is not in any way, shape, or form "Access" when you take it to the web. It's a totally different animal and a totally different product. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 12:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Hi all Just attended for three days the Office 365 Summit here following the SharePoint developer track. Besides that Office 365 including SharePoint moves so fast - and will continue to do so - that you will have a hard time to get up to speed, an interesting statement was, that Access has a top-priority for creating "Access style" apps running in SharePoint which is mostly anything involving more than one table/list or a spreadsheet. Currently, as we know, these Access apps are quite limited because the only programming language is the new weird macros. Why it is so, we were told, is because the macros are converted to SQL stored procedures behind the scene, and this is because the "Access" tables actually are SQL tables in an SQL Server database created for the app. But the Access team is currently working on big changes (those were the words) to improve the features of Access/SharePoint combined. This is the only focus for the team, thus - if you were in doubt - you can forget about any improvement or new feature in Access not related to SharePoint. Also, now I understand why it was so hard to understand programming in SharePoint. The reason is simple; the previous SharePoint SOLUTIONs from up to SP2010 (which are very difficult to program and deploy) are left behind in SP2013 and onward in favour of SharePoint APPs. SP solutions can still be programmed and will run, but you should only follow that route for special cases. These apps are written in JavaScript and CSS, so if you have wondered if you should learn JavaScript or not, don't hesitate - just start, better tomorrow than the day after tomorrow. And while you are at it, get familiar with REST, OData and JSON because this is how all apps in Office 365 will communicate. /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jbartow at winhaven.net Tue May 27 09:39:35 2014 From: jbartow at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 09:39:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) In-Reply-To: <4d6c9a2a2bfd400daca4a90da84e06d2@AMSPR06MB311.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> References: <4d6c9a2a2bfd400daca4a90da84e06d2@AMSPR06MB311.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <013401cf79b9$7b34c400$719e4c00$@winhaven.net> Gustav, Thank you for this review. It is very timely for me as I have recently had my first inquiry into upgrading an existing Access 2010 program for Office 365 and/or Office 2014. Regards, John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 11:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Hi all Just attended for three days the Office 365 Summit here following the SharePoint developer track. Besides that Office 365 including SharePoint moves so fast - and will continue to do so - that you will have a hard time to get up to speed, an interesting statement was, that Access has a top-priority for creating "Access style" apps running in SharePoint which is mostly anything involving more than one table/list or a spreadsheet. Currently, as we know, these Access apps are quite limited because the only programming language is the new weird macros. Why it is so, we were told, is because the macros are converted to SQL stored procedures behind the scene, and this is because the "Access" tables actually are SQL tables in an SQL Server database created for the app. But the Access team is currently working on big changes (those were the words) to improve the features of Access/SharePoint combined. This is the only focus for the team, thus - if you were in doubt - you can forget about any improvement or new feature in Access not related to SharePoint. Also, now I understand why it was so hard to understand programming in SharePoint. The reason is simple; the previous SharePoint SOLUTIONs from up to SP2010 (which are very difficult to program and deploy) are left behind in SP2013 and onward in favour of SharePoint APPs. SP solutions can still be programmed and will run, but you should only follow that route for special cases. These apps are written in JavaScript and CSS, so if you have wondered if you should learn JavaScript or not, don't hesitate - just start, better tomorrow than the day after tomorrow. And while you are at it, get familiar with REST, OData and JSON because this is how all apps in Office 365 will communicate. /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 27 10:17:51 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 11:17:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9317D411B48C4DF390DF8741A7444059@XPS> Tom, On this: " A2013 doesn't support command bars...it's now no longer possible to hide the ribbon." In regards to: "Using right-clicking is still really important in my apps - having no command bars in Access 2013 will negate that." Let me clarify; the command bar object still exists. What was removed was support for command bars. In other words they don't exist anywhere in the interface. You can no longer hide the ribbon with them and there is no way to edit them. You can however still use the command bar object in code for right click menus. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ewaldt at gdls.com Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 06:46 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Wow. Sounds like there's an opportunity for someone to create a good database development system for desktops out there, since Microsoft is apparently abandoning us. I have Office 2007 at home and at work; I have no interest in SharePoint. Using right-clicking is still really important in my apps - having no command bars in Access 2013 will negate that. When others here say it's basically web-based, I'm assuming that means intranets as well as the Internet. Even so, if the IT people don't want to set that up, it sounds like we're really stuck. Sure hope my company does not "upgrade" to Office 2013 any time soon. Tom Ewald Mass Properties General Dynamics Land Systems Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 15:42:08 -0400 From: "Jim Dettman" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) A2013 doesn't support command bars...it's now no longer possible to hide the ribbon. A2013 doesn't support JET 3.x or prior. You can no longer open anything prior to A2000. A2013 doesn't support the DBF format. A2013 doesn't support ADP's. A2013 doesn't support replication. A2013 pivot charts and tables are gone. So from the desktop viewpoint, A2013 no longer has a number of features which we've used over the years. Hence it was the last "full" version. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue May 27 11:28:14 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 12:28:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) In-Reply-To: <9317D411B48C4DF390DF8741A7444059@XPS> References: <9317D411B48C4DF390DF8741A7444059@XPS> Message-ID: <00ce01cf79c8$b584e7c0$208eb740$@gmail.com> However, since you can start the ribbon from scratch and put in Custom ribbons using XML and a local table (USysRibbons), you still have control over the ribbons in Ac2013, no? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 11:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Tom, On this: " A2013 doesn't support command bars...it's now no longer possible to hide the ribbon." In regards to: "Using right-clicking is still really important in my apps - having no command bars in Access 2013 will negate that." Let me clarify; the command bar object still exists. What was removed was support for command bars. In other words they don't exist anywhere in the interface. You can no longer hide the ribbon with them and there is no way to edit them. You can however still use the command bar object in code for right click menus. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ewaldt at gdls.com Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 06:46 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Wow. Sounds like there's an opportunity for someone to create a good database development system for desktops out there, since Microsoft is apparently abandoning us. I have Office 2007 at home and at work; I have no interest in SharePoint. Using right-clicking is still really important in my apps - having no command bars in Access 2013 will negate that. When others here say it's basically web-based, I'm assuming that means intranets as well as the Internet. Even so, if the IT people don't want to set that up, it sounds like we're really stuck. Sure hope my company does not "upgrade" to Office 2013 any time soon. Tom Ewald Mass Properties General Dynamics Land Systems Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 15:42:08 -0400 From: "Jim Dettman" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) A2013 doesn't support command bars...it's now no longer possible to hide the ribbon. A2013 doesn't support JET 3.x or prior. You can no longer open anything prior to A2000. A2013 doesn't support the DBF format. A2013 doesn't support ADP's. A2013 doesn't support replication. A2013 pivot charts and tables are gone. So from the desktop viewpoint, A2013 no longer has a number of features which we've used over the years. Hence it was the last "full" version. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 27 11:58:42 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 12:58:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) In-Reply-To: <00ce01cf79c8$b584e7c0$208eb740$@gmail.com> References: <9317D411B48C4DF390DF8741A7444059@XPS> <00ce01cf79c8$b584e7c0$208eb740$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7EB05B1BF52645CFBF220E430E30517F@XPS> Yes. You just can't get rid of it anymore. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 12:28 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) However, since you can start the ribbon from scratch and put in Custom ribbons using XML and a local table (USysRibbons), you still have control over the ribbons in Ac2013, no? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 11:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Tom, On this: " A2013 doesn't support command bars...it's now no longer possible to hide the ribbon." In regards to: "Using right-clicking is still really important in my apps - having no command bars in Access 2013 will negate that." Let me clarify; the command bar object still exists. What was removed was support for command bars. In other words they don't exist anywhere in the interface. You can no longer hide the ribbon with them and there is no way to edit them. You can however still use the command bar object in code for right click menus. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ewaldt at gdls.com Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 06:46 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Wow. Sounds like there's an opportunity for someone to create a good database development system for desktops out there, since Microsoft is apparently abandoning us. I have Office 2007 at home and at work; I have no interest in SharePoint. Using right-clicking is still really important in my apps - having no command bars in Access 2013 will negate that. When others here say it's basically web-based, I'm assuming that means intranets as well as the Internet. Even so, if the IT people don't want to set that up, it sounds like we're really stuck. Sure hope my company does not "upgrade" to Office 2013 any time soon. Tom Ewald Mass Properties General Dynamics Land Systems Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 15:42:08 -0400 From: "Jim Dettman" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) A2013 doesn't support command bars...it's now no longer possible to hide the ribbon. A2013 doesn't support JET 3.x or prior. You can no longer open anything prior to A2000. A2013 doesn't support the DBF format. A2013 doesn't support ADP's. A2013 doesn't support replication. A2013 pivot charts and tables are gone. So from the desktop viewpoint, A2013 no longer has a number of features which we've used over the years. Hence it was the last "full" version. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue May 27 12:01:34 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 13:01:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) In-Reply-To: <7EB05B1BF52645CFBF220E430E30517F@XPS> References: <9317D411B48C4DF390DF8741A7444059@XPS> <00ce01cf79c8$b584e7c0$208eb740$@gmail.com> <7EB05B1BF52645CFBF220E430E30517F@XPS> Message-ID: <00db01cf79cd$5d5b12e0$181138a0$@gmail.com> OK, that is not so bad then. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 12:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Yes. You just can't get rid of it anymore. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 12:28 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) However, since you can start the ribbon from scratch and put in Custom ribbons using XML and a local table (USysRibbons), you still have control over the ribbons in Ac2013, no? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 11:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Tom, On this: " A2013 doesn't support command bars...it's now no longer possible to hide the ribbon." In regards to: "Using right-clicking is still really important in my apps - having no command bars in Access 2013 will negate that." Let me clarify; the command bar object still exists. What was removed was support for command bars. In other words they don't exist anywhere in the interface. You can no longer hide the ribbon with them and there is no way to edit them. You can however still use the command bar object in code for right click menus. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ewaldt at gdls.com Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 06:46 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Wow. Sounds like there's an opportunity for someone to create a good database development system for desktops out there, since Microsoft is apparently abandoning us. I have Office 2007 at home and at work; I have no interest in SharePoint. Using right-clicking is still really important in my apps - having no command bars in Access 2013 will negate that. When others here say it's basically web-based, I'm assuming that means intranets as well as the Internet. Even so, if the IT people don't want to set that up, it sounds like we're really stuck. Sure hope my company does not "upgrade" to Office 2013 any time soon. Tom Ewald Mass Properties General Dynamics Land Systems Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 15:42:08 -0400 From: "Jim Dettman" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) A2013 doesn't support command bars...it's now no longer possible to hide the ribbon. A2013 doesn't support JET 3.x or prior. You can no longer open anything prior to A2000. A2013 doesn't support the DBF format. A2013 doesn't support ADP's. A2013 doesn't support replication. A2013 pivot charts and tables are gone. So from the desktop viewpoint, A2013 no longer has a number of features which we've used over the years. Hence it was the last "full" version. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue May 27 14:00:45 2014 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 15:00:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How many wizards? Message-ID: Anyone happen to have a count for this question? Autoform, Switchboard, input mask... where to draw the line? How would you define wizard? And what word do we use to refer to the other stuff, the input mask thing for example. -- Arthur From bradm at blackforestltd.com Tue May 27 15:10:39 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 20:10:39 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] =?windows-1252?q?Moving_Access_Reporting_Applications_f?= =?windows-1252?q?rom_Windows_Server_2003_to_Windows_Server_2012__=96__Ini?= =?windows-1252?q?tiation_Problem?= In-Reply-To: <00db01cf79cd$5d5b12e0$181138a0$@gmail.com> References: <9317D411B48C4DF390DF8741A7444059@XPS> <00ce01cf79c8$b584e7c0$208eb740$@gmail.com> <7EB05B1BF52645CFBF220E430E30517F@XPS> <00db01cf79cd$5d5b12e0$181138a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <68bc9db7a0b042f79d6997c5fb962348@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> All, We are in the process of replacing our old Windows Server 2003 machine with a new box that is going to run Windows Server 2012 R2. I have a number of Access applications that are run at night to create reports. These report jobs are initiated via small scripts which are used for a number of ?utility? type tasks that are related to the generation of the Access reports. Currently with Windows Server 2003, we have scheduled tasks set up to initiate the little scripts. These scripts in turn do their tasks and then initiate the appropriate Access accdr file to create the reports. This approach has worked well for several years in the Windows Server 2003 environment, but not so smoothly in the Windows Server 2012 environment. If I have the Windows 2012 Task Scheduler set to ?Only Run While Logged On? everything works fine (as long as I am logged on). If I have the Windows 2012 Task Scheduler set to ?Run While Logged On or Logged Off?, the script is initiated, and it does a number of small tasks properly. However, when it tries to initiate the Access accdr file, nothing happens. The Access application is not fired up and there are no error messages. Perhaps this is a new "feature" of the Task Scheduler. Has anyone else run into this issue? Thanks, Brad From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue May 27 15:19:27 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 16:19:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Moving_Access_Reporting_Applications_from_Win?= =?utf-8?q?dows_Server_2003_to_Windows_Server_2012_=E2=80=93_Initia?= =?utf-8?q?tion_Problem?= In-Reply-To: <68bc9db7a0b042f79d6997c5fb962348@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <9317D411B48C4DF390DF8741A7444059@XPS> <00ce01cf79c8$b584e7c0$208eb740$@gmail.com> <7EB05B1BF52645CFBF220E430E30517F@XPS> <00db01cf79cd$5d5b12e0$181138a0$@gmail.com> <68bc9db7a0b042f79d6997c5fb962348@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Check the network policy in the Local Group Policy Editor (if there is one in 2012, I think it came along with 2008 Server). If the Network "Do not allow storage of passwords and credentials for network authentication policy is enabled and applied, Credential Manager cannot store the credentials locally, and this might be what is hurting you. On May 27, 2014 4:11 PM, "Brad Marks" wrote: > All, > > We are in the process of replacing our old Windows Server 2003 machine > with a new box that is going to run Windows Server 2012 R2. > > I have a number of Access applications that are run at night to create > reports. These report jobs are initiated via small scripts which are used > for a number of ?utility? type tasks that are related to the generation of > the Access reports. > > Currently with Windows Server 2003, we have scheduled tasks set up to > initiate the little scripts. These scripts in turn do their tasks and then > initiate the appropriate Access accdr file to create the reports. > > This approach has worked well for several years in the Windows Server 2003 > environment, but not so smoothly in the Windows Server 2012 environment. > > If I have the Windows 2012 Task Scheduler set to ?Only Run While Logged > On? everything works fine (as long as I am logged on). > > If I have the Windows 2012 Task Scheduler set to ?Run While Logged On or > Logged Off?, the script is initiated, and it does a number of small tasks > properly. However, when it tries to initiate the Access accdr file, > nothing happens. The Access application is not fired up and there are no > error messages. > > Perhaps this is a new "feature" of the Task Scheduler. > > Has anyone else run into this issue? > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue May 27 15:22:52 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 16:22:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Moving_Access_Reporting_Applications_from_Win?= =?utf-8?q?dows_Server_2003_to_Windows_Server_2012_=E2=80=93_Initia?= =?utf-8?q?tion_Problem?= In-Reply-To: References: <9317D411B48C4DF390DF8741A7444059@XPS> <00ce01cf79c8$b584e7c0$208eb740$@gmail.com> <7EB05B1BF52645CFBF220E430E30517F@XPS> <00db01cf79cd$5d5b12e0$181138a0$@gmail.com> <68bc9db7a0b042f79d6997c5fb962348@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Btw, may be red herring but I am getting this from: http://blogs.technet.com/b/askperf/archive/2012/04/18/task-scheduler-error-a-specified-logon-session-does-not-exist.aspx Additional guidance: How to open the "Local Group Policy Editor" 1. click Run, type gpedit.msc, and then click OK. 2.Under Computer Configuration, expand Windows Settings, expand Security Settings, expand Local Policies, and then expand Security Options. 3.In the Policy pane, right-click Network access: Do not allow storage of credentials or .NET Passports for network authentication, click Properties, click Disabled, and then click OK. On May 27, 2014 4:19 PM, "Bill Benson" wrote: > Check the network policy in the Local Group Policy Editor (if there is one > in 2012, I think it came along with 2008 Server). > > If the Network "Do not allow storage of passwords and credentials for > network authentication policy is enabled and applied, Credential Manager > cannot store the credentials locally, and this might be what is hurting you. > On May 27, 2014 4:11 PM, "Brad Marks" wrote: > >> All, >> >> We are in the process of replacing our old Windows Server 2003 machine >> with a new box that is going to run Windows Server 2012 R2. >> >> I have a number of Access applications that are run at night to create >> reports. These report jobs are initiated via small scripts which are used >> for a number of ?utility? type tasks that are related to the generation of >> the Access reports. >> >> Currently with Windows Server 2003, we have scheduled tasks set up to >> initiate the little scripts. These scripts in turn do their tasks and then >> initiate the appropriate Access accdr file to create the reports. >> >> This approach has worked well for several years in the Windows Server >> 2003 environment, but not so smoothly in the Windows Server 2012 >> environment. >> >> If I have the Windows 2012 Task Scheduler set to ?Only Run While Logged >> On? everything works fine (as long as I am logged on). >> >> If I have the Windows 2012 Task Scheduler set to ?Run While Logged On or >> Logged Off?, the script is initiated, and it does a number of small tasks >> properly. However, when it tries to initiate the Access accdr file, >> nothing happens. The Access application is not fired up and there are no >> error messages. >> >> Perhaps this is a new "feature" of the Task Scheduler. >> >> Has anyone else run into this issue? >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue May 27 18:29:31 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 23:29:31 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] How many wizards? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not sure how many Arthur. I sense the line is drawn with how many steps of help are provided with the process. More than 2 I suspect it is given the 'Wizard' designation. Just my thoughts on this Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, 28 May 2014 5:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] How many wizards? Anyone happen to have a count for this question? Autoform, Switchboard, input mask... where to draw the line? How would you define wizard? And what word do we use to refer to the other stuff, the input mask thing for example. -- Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Tue May 27 21:13:34 2014 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 21:13:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For Important Work In-Reply-To: <20140527205022.180361akx5kj3un2@webmail.hiwaay.net> References: <20140527205022.180361akx5kj3un2@webmail.hiwaay.net> Message-ID: And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because shit is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking program. What a crock. There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. GK GK On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 8:50 PM, wrote: > I haven't read this (yet), but it looks like an economics professor has > written a book advancing a hypothesis that all us wage slaves are doomed to > misery and poverty while the folks who own and control capital will > eventually own and control everything. (I suppose this is the long overdue > update of "Das Capital" by Karl Marx.) > > The only problem with this professor's theory is that he relied on > erroneous error-plagued spreadsheet data to support his "facts" and > conclusions. > > http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/05/27/220202/why-you- > shouldnt-use-spreadsheets-for-important-work > > Susan, maybe you can insert a chapter (or a few pages) into your upcoming > Excel book warning people not to get too infatuated with spreadsheets. (I > wonder why articles like this aren't more prevalent about the misuse and/or > misinterpretation of data generated from databases?) > > Positive Alan of Huntsville > > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed May 28 04:07:53 2014 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 05:07:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How many wizards? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Darryl. After posting my message, it occurred to me that the other category is frequently called "Builders". That is a good appellation for such things as the Input Mask thing. A. On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Darryl Collins < darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote: > Not sure how many Arthur. I sense the line is drawn with how many steps > of help are provided with the process. More than 2 I suspect it is given > the 'Wizard' designation. > > Just my thoughts on this > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Wednesday, 28 May 2014 5:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] How many wizards? > > Anyone happen to have a count for this question? Autoform, Switchboard, > input mask... where to draw the line? > > How would you define wizard? And what word do we use to refer to the other > stuff, the input mask thing for example. > > -- > Arthur > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Arthur From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed May 28 07:47:13 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 08:47:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Recently posted on the Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN) which may be of interest Message-ID: <9627CA1C9ED94E6CAD8ABE15EED16648@XPS> For those of you looking for the next best thing, a recent posting on the Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN): " No I do not know C++. One the one app I have redeveloped using Instant Developer I only needed to use c++ sparingly and was able to muddle through it. Almost all id done by drag and drop. As one developer has said, if you have to work very hard at something you are trying to do you are likley trying to do it wrong. I am part of a small group who has switched over to Instant Developer at the same time, over the past year or so and continue to be impressed with it. Almost all are people switching from Alpha Five. " I haven't checked it out yet. A few in the thread seem to be upset with the current subscription model that Alpha 5 has switched to, mainly centering around the server licensing. Apparently though, a IIS setup is in beta. Not sure if that would change the required licensing $ or not. But instant developer seems to be the up and coming new thing...however looking it over briefly, their not cheap either. Most of the apps I might write would fall under the $199 or $299 MONTHLY subscription price. Anyway, thought it was worth mentioning...Access certainly doesn't seem to be going anywhere at the moment. Maybe that's a thought for Microsoft; change the licensing model for Access, get more of a revenue stream from it, then do what developers want rather then end users. Of course then it would fall out of the Office camp. Jim. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed May 28 08:02:11 2014 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 06:02:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Recently posted on the Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN) which may be of interest In-Reply-To: <9627CA1C9ED94E6CAD8ABE15EED16648@XPS> References: <9627CA1C9ED94E6CAD8ABE15EED16648@XPS> Message-ID: What we heard at the PAUG conference this year was that the future of Access was as Access services. In other words, a tool to build front ends for SQL Server and Azure and to throw together cloud web apps backed by Azure. In any case, not life as we knew it. Charlotte On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 5:47 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > For those of you looking for the next best thing, a recent posting on the > Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN): > > " > No I do not know C++. One the one app I have redeveloped using Instant > Developer I only needed to use c++ sparingly and was able to muddle through > it. Almost all id done by drag and drop. As one developer has said, if you > have to work very hard at something you are trying to do you are likley > trying to do it wrong. > > I am part of a small group who has switched over to Instant Developer at > the > same time, over the past year or so and continue to be impressed with it. > Almost all are people switching from Alpha Five. > > " > I haven't checked it out yet. A few in the thread seem to be upset with > the current subscription model that Alpha 5 has switched to, mainly > centering around the server licensing. Apparently though, a IIS setup is > in > beta. Not sure if that would change the required licensing $ or not. > > But instant developer seems to be the up and coming new thing...however > looking it over briefly, their not cheap either. Most of the apps I might > write would fall under the $199 or $299 MONTHLY subscription price. > > Anyway, thought it was worth mentioning...Access certainly doesn't seem > to > be going anywhere at the moment. Maybe that's a thought for Microsoft; > change the licensing model for Access, get more of a revenue stream from > it, > then do what developers want rather then end users. Of course then it would > fall out of the Office camp. > > Jim. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 28 08:13:54 2014 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 13:13:54 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Message-ID: Hi all Regarding the future of Access, it is also the plan, we were told, to let it replace InfoPath (the little known and little used document filler application of Office for desktop) which is going to be left behind as it doesn't quite fit in the great cloud scenario. /Gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav Brock Sendt: 23. maj 2014 18:49 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Access and Office 365 (SharePoint) Hi all Just attended for three days the Office 365 Summit here following the SharePoint developer track. Besides that Office 365 including SharePoint moves so fast - and will continue to do so - that you will have a hard time to get up to speed, an interesting statement was, that Access has a top-priority for creating "Access style" apps running in SharePoint which is mostly anything involving more than one table/list or a spreadsheet. Currently, as we know, these Access apps are quite limited because the only programming language is the new weird macros. Why it is so, we were told, is because the macros are converted to SQL stored procedures behind the scene, and this is because the "Access" tables actually are SQL tables in an SQL Server database created for the app. But the Access team is currently working on big changes (those were the words) to improve the features of Access/SharePoint combined. This is the only focus for the team, thus - if you were in doubt - you can forget about any improvement or new feature in Access not related to SharePoint. Also, now I understand why it was so hard to understand programming in SharePoint. The reason is simple; the previous SharePoint SOLUTIONs from up to SP2010 (which are very difficult to program and deploy) are left behind in SP2013 and onward in favour of SharePoint APPs. SP solutions can still be programmed and will run, but you should only follow that route for special cases. These apps are written in JavaScript and CSS, so if you have wondered if you should learn JavaScript or not, don't hesitate - just start, better tomorrow than the day after tomorrow. And while you are at it, get familiar with REST, OData and JSON because this is how all apps in Office 365 will communicate. /gustav From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed May 28 10:06:55 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 11:06:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Recently posted on the Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN) which may be of interest In-Reply-To: References: <9627CA1C9ED94E6CAD8ABE15EED16648@XPS> Message-ID: <846B9F3B41D240E5B79A103C893DDAF7@XPS> Yes. For Microsoft, it's all about the web, the web, and nothing but the web, which is the way the world seems to be going. I just think Microsoft is a little too far ahead of the curve at this point, especially in regards to Access. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 09:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Recently posted on the Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN) which may be of interest What we heard at the PAUG conference this year was that the future of Access was as Access services. In other words, a tool to build front ends for SQL Server and Azure and to throw together cloud web apps backed by Azure. In any case, not life as we knew it. Charlotte On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 5:47 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > For those of you looking for the next best thing, a recent posting on the > Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN): > > " > No I do not know C++. One the one app I have redeveloped using Instant > Developer I only needed to use c++ sparingly and was able to muddle through > it. Almost all id done by drag and drop. As one developer has said, if you > have to work very hard at something you are trying to do you are likley > trying to do it wrong. > > I am part of a small group who has switched over to Instant Developer at > the > same time, over the past year or so and continue to be impressed with it. > Almost all are people switching from Alpha Five. > > " > I haven't checked it out yet. A few in the thread seem to be upset with > the current subscription model that Alpha 5 has switched to, mainly > centering around the server licensing. Apparently though, a IIS setup is > in > beta. Not sure if that would change the required licensing $ or not. > > But instant developer seems to be the up and coming new thing...however > looking it over briefly, their not cheap either. Most of the apps I might > write would fall under the $199 or $299 MONTHLY subscription price. > > Anyway, thought it was worth mentioning...Access certainly doesn't seem > to > be going anywhere at the moment. Maybe that's a thought for Microsoft; > change the licensing model for Access, get more of a revenue stream from > it, > then do what developers want rather then end users. Of course then it would > fall out of the Office camp. > > Jim. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Wed May 28 10:53:04 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 15:53:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Moving_Access_Application_to_Windows_Server__?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=93_Task_Scheduler_Problem?= In-Reply-To: References: <9317D411B48C4DF390DF8741A7444059@XPS> <00ce01cf79c8$b584e7c0$208eb740$@gmail.com> <7EB05B1BF52645CFBF220E430E30517F@XPS> <00db01cf79cd$5d5b12e0$181138a0$@gmail.com> <68bc9db7a0b042f79d6997c5fb962348@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <71321a75267143a7815c091dd1673339@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Bill, Thanks for the help. I tried the steps that you posted, but still no luck. In order to debug this issue, I have set up a very small Access application that simply writes one record to a log file when it is initiated. I then used the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler to establish a new Scheduled Task which initiates MSACCESS.EXE directly with the name of the little accdr file as a parameter. Running this task from the Task Scheduler works properly when it is set to "Run Only When User is Logged On". I can see that it is working by looking at the log file. However, when I change the setting to "Run Whether User is Logged on or Not", things do not work. No record is written to the log file. When I look at the Task Manager I see "Microsoft Access (32 bit)" in the process list. I have looked at the logs via the Event Viewer but have not found anything. My experience with the Event Viewer is quite limited, so maybe I am not looking in the right place. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 3:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving Access Reporting Applications from Windows Server 2003 to Windows Server 2012 ? Initiation Problem Btw, may be red herring but I am getting this from: http://blogs.technet.com/b/askperf/archive/2012/04/18/task-scheduler-error-a-specified-logon-session-does-not-exist.aspx Additional guidance: How to open the "Local Group Policy Editor" 1. click Run, type gpedit.msc, and then click OK. 2.Under Computer Configuration, expand Windows Settings, expand Security Settings, expand Local Policies, and then expand Security Options. 3.In the Policy pane, right-click Network access: Do not allow storage of credentials or .NET Passports for network authentication, click Properties, click Disabled, and then click OK. On May 27, 2014 4:19 PM, "Bill Benson" wrote: > Check the network policy in the Local Group Policy Editor (if there is > one in 2012, I think it came along with 2008 Server). > > If the Network "Do not allow storage of passwords and credentials for > network authentication policy is enabled and applied, Credential > Manager cannot store the credentials locally, and this might be what is hurting you. > On May 27, 2014 4:11 PM, "Brad Marks" wrote: > >> All, >> >> We are in the process of replacing our old Windows Server 2003 >> machine with a new box that is going to run Windows Server 2012 R2. >> >> I have a number of Access applications that are run at night to >> create reports. These report jobs are initiated via small scripts >> which are used for a number of ?utility? type tasks that are related >> to the generation of the Access reports. >> >> Currently with Windows Server 2003, we have scheduled tasks set up to >> initiate the little scripts. These scripts in turn do their tasks >> and then initiate the appropriate Access accdr file to create the reports. >> >> This approach has worked well for several years in the Windows Server >> 2003 environment, but not so smoothly in the Windows Server 2012 >> environment. >> >> If I have the Windows 2012 Task Scheduler set to ?Only Run While >> Logged On? everything works fine (as long as I am logged on). >> >> If I have the Windows 2012 Task Scheduler set to ?Run While Logged On >> or Logged Off?, the script is initiated, and it does a number of >> small tasks properly. However, when it tries to initiate the Access >> accdr file, nothing happens. The Access application is not fired up >> and there are no error messages. >> >> Perhaps this is a new "feature" of the Task Scheduler. >> >> Has anyone else run into this issue? >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jbartow at winhaven.net Wed May 28 12:22:00 2014 From: jbartow at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 12:22:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For Important Work In-Reply-To: References: <20140527205022.180361akx5kj3un2@webmail.hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <00fa01cf7a99$56c32bd0$04498370$@winhaven.net> Lol. Good post Gary. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 9:14 PM To: Off Topic Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For Important Work And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because shit is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking program. What a crock. There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. GK GK On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 8:50 PM, wrote: > I haven't read this (yet), but it looks like an economics professor > has written a book advancing a hypothesis that all us wage slaves are > doomed to misery and poverty while the folks who own and control > capital will eventually own and control everything. (I suppose this > is the long overdue update of "Das Capital" by Karl Marx.) > > The only problem with this professor's theory is that he relied on > erroneous error-plagued spreadsheet data to support his "facts" and > conclusions. > > http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/05/27/220202/why-you- > shouldnt-use-spreadsheets-for-important-work > > Susan, maybe you can insert a chapter (or a few pages) into your > upcoming Excel book warning people not to get too infatuated with > spreadsheets. (I wonder why articles like this aren't more prevalent > about the misuse and/or misinterpretation of data generated from > databases?) > > Positive Alan of Huntsville > > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 28 12:43:05 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 11:43:05 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Recently posted on the Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN) which may be of interest In-Reply-To: <9627CA1C9ED94E6CAD8ABE15EED16648@XPS> Message-ID: <525577836.56454041.1401298985288.JavaMail.root@cds018> Hi Jim It looks like it may be a good option and well worth further investigating. There is one thing that might make it a non-starter. Even though the package supports many databases it can only be developed on the Windows OS...Apple and Linux are left out...ten years ago that was acceptable...today, not so much. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Dettman" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 5:47:13 AM Subject: [AccessD] Recently posted on the Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN) which may be of interest For those of you looking for the next best thing, a recent posting on the Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN): " No I do not know C++. One the one app I have redeveloped using Instant Developer I only needed to use c++ sparingly and was able to muddle through it. Almost all id done by drag and drop. As one developer has said, if you have to work very hard at something you are trying to do you are likley trying to do it wrong. I am part of a small group who has switched over to Instant Developer at the same time, over the past year or so and continue to be impressed with it. Almost all are people switching from Alpha Five. " I haven't checked it out yet. A few in the thread seem to be upset with the current subscription model that Alpha 5 has switched to, mainly centering around the server licensing. Apparently though, a IIS setup is in beta. Not sure if that would change the required licensing $ or not. But instant developer seems to be the up and coming new thing...however looking it over briefly, their not cheap either. Most of the apps I might write would fall under the $199 or $299 MONTHLY subscription price. Anyway, thought it was worth mentioning...Access certainly doesn't seem to be going anywhere at the moment. Maybe that's a thought for Microsoft; change the licensing model for Access, get more of a revenue stream from it, then do what developers want rather then end users. Of course then it would fall out of the Office camp. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk Wed May 28 12:58:54 2014 From: jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk (James Button) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 18:58:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For Important Work In-Reply-To: <00fa01cf7a99$56c32bd0$04498370$@winhaven.net> References: <20140527205022.180361akx5kj3un2@webmail.hiwaay.net> <00fa01cf7a99$56c32bd0$04498370$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <001501cf7a9e$7db921e0$792b65a0$@blueyonder.co.uk> Maybe the lesson that needs to be absorbed is: Don't trust declarations from those who are not truly competent in the facilities they are using. Now that would also cover lots of politicians dealing with social support, law finance, regulatory and enforcement organisations as opposed to oration. JimB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 6:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For Important Work Lol. Good post Gary. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 9:14 PM To: Off Topic Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For Important Work And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because shit is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking program. What a crock. There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. GK GK On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 8:50 PM, wrote: > I haven't read this (yet), but it looks like an economics professor > has written a book advancing a hypothesis that all us wage slaves are > doomed to misery and poverty while the folks who own and control > capital will eventually own and control everything. (I suppose this > is the long overdue update of "Das Capital" by Karl Marx.) > > The only problem with this professor's theory is that he relied on > erroneous error-plagued spreadsheet data to support his "facts" and > conclusions. > > http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/05/27/220202/why-you- > shouldnt-use-spreadsheets-for-important-work > > Susan, maybe you can insert a chapter (or a few pages) into your > upcoming Excel book warning people not to get too infatuated with > spreadsheets. (I wonder why articles like this aren't more prevalent > about the misuse and/or misinterpretation of data generated from > databases?) > > Positive Alan of Huntsville > > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed May 28 13:17:21 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 14:17:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For Important Work In-Reply-To: <001501cf7a9e$7db921e0$792b65a0$@blueyonder.co.uk> References: <20140527205022.180361akx5kj3un2@webmail.hiwaay.net> <00fa01cf7a99$56c32bd0$04498370$@winhaven.net> <001501cf7a9e$7db921e0$792b65a0$@blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: As I have always heard it, figures don't lie but liars do figure. I suppose we can add to that, ignoramuses also figure but they figure wrongly. On May 28, 2014 2:02 PM, "James Button" wrote: > Maybe the lesson that needs to be absorbed is: > > Don't trust declarations from those who are not truly competent in the > facilities they are using. > > Now that would also cover lots of politicians dealing with social support, > law > finance, regulatory and enforcement organisations as opposed to oration. > > JimB > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 6:22 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For > Important > Work > > Lol. Good post Gary. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 9:14 PM > To: Off Topic > Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For > Important Work > > And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because shit > is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking program. What > a crock. > > There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. > But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. > > Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. > > GK > > GK > > > On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 8:50 PM, wrote: > > > I haven't read this (yet), but it looks like an economics professor > > has written a book advancing a hypothesis that all us wage slaves are > > doomed to misery and poverty while the folks who own and control > > capital will eventually own and control everything. (I suppose this > > is the long overdue update of "Das Capital" by Karl Marx.) > > > > The only problem with this professor's theory is that he relied on > > erroneous error-plagued spreadsheet data to support his "facts" and > > conclusions. > > > > http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/05/27/220202/why-you- > > shouldnt-use-spreadsheets-for-important-work > > > > Susan, maybe you can insert a chapter (or a few pages) into your > > upcoming Excel book warning people not to get too infatuated with > > spreadsheets. (I wonder why articles like this aren't more prevalent > > about the misuse and/or misinterpretation of data generated from > > databases?) > > > > Positive Alan of Huntsville > > > > > > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jbartow at winhaven.net Wed May 28 13:23:00 2014 From: jbartow at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 13:23:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For Important Work In-Reply-To: <001501cf7a9e$7db921e0$792b65a0$@blueyonder.co.uk> References: <20140527205022.180361akx5kj3un2@webmail.hiwaay.net> <00fa01cf7a99$56c32bd0$04498370$@winhaven.net> <001501cf7a9e$7db921e0$792b65a0$@blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: <011701cf7aa1$dbe0f470$93a2dd50$@winhaven.net> Lol. Another good post James. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of James Button Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 12:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For Important Work Maybe the lesson that needs to be absorbed is: Don't trust declarations from those who are not truly competent in the facilities they are using. Now that would also cover lots of politicians dealing with social support, law finance, regulatory and enforcement organisations as opposed to oration. JimB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 6:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For Important Work Lol. Good post Gary. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 9:14 PM To: Off Topic Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For Important Work And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because shit is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking program. What a crock. There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. GK GK On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 8:50 PM, wrote: > I haven't read this (yet), but it looks like an economics professor > has written a book advancing a hypothesis that all us wage slaves are > doomed to misery and poverty while the folks who own and control > capital will eventually own and control everything. (I suppose this > is the long overdue update of "Das Capital" by Karl Marx.) > > The only problem with this professor's theory is that he relied on > erroneous error-plagued spreadsheet data to support his "facts" and > conclusions. > > http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/05/27/220202/why-you- > shouldnt-use-spreadsheets-for-important-work > > Susan, maybe you can insert a chapter (or a few pages) into your > upcoming Excel book warning people not to get too infatuated with > spreadsheets. (I wonder why articles like this aren't more prevalent > about the misuse and/or misinterpretation of data generated from > databases?) > > Positive Alan of Huntsville > > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 28 13:26:06 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 12:26:06 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Recently posted on the Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN) which may be of interest In-Reply-To: <846B9F3B41D240E5B79A103C893DDAF7@XPS> Message-ID: <1112328446.56494037.1401301566952.JavaMail.root@cds018> Hi Jim: Most of all new development and business today, is done on the web. (about seventy percent?). New software is either inexpensive or OSS. Microsoft and many of the other major software designers (Oracle...) are just trying to figure out how to sustain their cash flow in this environment. It can be done by selling products at high volumes with low margins and then charging a host of support and service fees. This financial model only works on the web and not so much on the desktop. When talking to the young developers, in their twenties and maybe a little older, this is the new paradigm. There will always be a place for desktop and server developers but most of the new opportunities with the latest and greatest software will be reside in the Cloud or be able to be off-loaded from some website...and the demand and expectation for ever cheaper and quicker solutions will only continue to grow. Google and Amazon have already have proof of concept and Microsoft is just playing catch-up. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Dettman" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 8:06:55 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Recently posted on the Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN) which may be of interest Yes. For Microsoft, it's all about the web, the web, and nothing but the web, which is the way the world seems to be going. I just think Microsoft is a little too far ahead of the curve at this point, especially in regards to Access. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 09:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Recently posted on the Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN) which may be of interest What we heard at the PAUG conference this year was that the future of Access was as Access services. In other words, a tool to build front ends for SQL Server and Azure and to throw together cloud web apps backed by Azure. In any case, not life as we knew it. Charlotte On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 5:47 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > For those of you looking for the next best thing, a recent posting on the > Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN): > > " > No I do not know C++. One the one app I have redeveloped using Instant > Developer I only needed to use c++ sparingly and was able to muddle through > it. Almost all id done by drag and drop. As one developer has said, if you > have to work very hard at something you are trying to do you are likley > trying to do it wrong. > > I am part of a small group who has switched over to Instant Developer at > the > same time, over the past year or so and continue to be impressed with it. > Almost all are people switching from Alpha Five. > > " > I haven't checked it out yet. A few in the thread seem to be upset with > the current subscription model that Alpha 5 has switched to, mainly > centering around the server licensing. Apparently though, a IIS setup is > in > beta. Not sure if that would change the required licensing $ or not. > > But instant developer seems to be the up and coming new thing...however > looking it over briefly, their not cheap either. Most of the apps I might > write would fall under the $199 or $299 MONTHLY subscription price. > > Anyway, thought it was worth mentioning...Access certainly doesn't seem > to > be going anywhere at the moment. Maybe that's a thought for Microsoft; > change the licensing model for Access, get more of a revenue stream from > it, > then do what developers want rather then end users. Of course then it would > fall out of the Office camp. > > Jim. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Wed May 28 13:42:11 2014 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 11:42:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For Important Work In-Reply-To: <011701cf7aa1$dbe0f470$93a2dd50$@winhaven.net> References: <20140527205022.180361akx5kj3un2@webmail.hiwaay.net> <00fa01cf7a99$56c32bd0$04498370$@winhaven.net> <001501cf7a9e$7db921e0$792b65a0$@blueyonder.co.uk> <011701cf7aa1$dbe0f470$93a2dd50$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Actually, it's very interesting reading the various discussions starting at the original link in Gary's post. If I understood correctly: 1. The author (Piketty) made all his data publicly available - which is why the analysis was even possible - so he was unlikely trying to hide anything. 2. The possibly erroneous data only affected one chapter of his book. 3. After reworking his data to 'fix' it, the Economist displayed the differences, and basically figured that his overall conclusions wouldn't have changed anyway. Doug On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 11:23 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Lol. Another good post James. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of James Button > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 12:59 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For > Important Work > > Maybe the lesson that needs to be absorbed is: > > Don't trust declarations from those who are not truly competent in the > facilities they are using. > > Now that would also cover lots of politicians dealing with social support, > law finance, regulatory and enforcement organisations as opposed to > oration. > > > JimB > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 6:22 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For > Important Work > > Lol. Good post Gary. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 9:14 PM > To: Off Topic > Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For > Important Work > > And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because shit > is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking program. What > a crock. > > There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. > But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. > > Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. > > GK > > GK > > > On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 8:50 PM, wrote: > > > I haven't read this (yet), but it looks like an economics professor > > has written a book advancing a hypothesis that all us wage slaves are > > doomed to misery and poverty while the folks who own and control > > capital will eventually own and control everything. (I suppose this > > is the long overdue update of "Das Capital" by Karl Marx.) > > > > The only problem with this professor's theory is that he relied on > > erroneous error-plagued spreadsheet data to support his "facts" and > > conclusions. > > > > http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/05/27/220202/why-you- > > shouldnt-use-spreadsheets-for-important-work > > > > Susan, maybe you can insert a chapter (or a few pages) into your > > upcoming Excel book warning people not to get too infatuated with > > spreadsheets. (I wonder why articles like this aren't more prevalent > > about the misuse and/or misinterpretation of data generated from > > databases?) > > > > Positive Alan of Huntsville > > > > > > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at outlook.com Wed May 28 13:51:23 2014 From: df.waters at outlook.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 13:51:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For Important Work Message-ID: Sometimes scientists really should not use spreadsheets. It depends on how many significant figures they are working with. My physics professor told me once, "We've figured it out to 50 decimal places so we're pretty sure!" (Physicists at the time were trying to confirm that something was the square of something else, and they had confirmed that the equation worked with exponent 2 followed by 50 zeroes.) So, the real caution is to know how many significant figures you need to work with, and know what Excel's limits are (I've read that it's 15). In a business, the standard is to work with 4 decimal places. That's good enough for money! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 9:14 PM To: Off Topic Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For Important Work And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because shit is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking program. What a crock. There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. GK GK On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 8:50 PM, wrote: > I haven't read this (yet), but it looks like an economics professor > has written a book advancing a hypothesis that all us wage slaves are > doomed to misery and poverty while the folks who own and control > capital will eventually own and control everything. (I suppose this > is the long overdue update of "Das Capital" by Karl Marx.) > > The only problem with this professor's theory is that he relied on > erroneous error-plagued spreadsheet data to support his "facts" and > conclusions. > > http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/05/27/220202/why-you- > shouldnt-use-spreadsheets-for-important-work > > Susan, maybe you can insert a chapter (or a few pages) into your > upcoming Excel book warning people not to get too infatuated with > spreadsheets. (I wonder why articles like this aren't more prevalent > about the misuse and/or misinterpretation of data generated from > databases?) > > Positive Alan of Huntsville > > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed May 28 14:06:43 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 15:06:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work In-Reply-To: References: <20140527205022.180361akx5kj3un2@webmail.hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <30E05312BBB84C819B350BD71EFEA4D2@XPS> Because their changed to easily, do not have the under pinning's of a coded language, etc. In short, great for ad-hoc work, but that's the very reason auditors don't like them. I've already been involved in IT audit where I was asked to provide source and compiled libs and had to prove that every change in source was requested with a ticket, by whom, who authorized it, and why it was done. Try doing that with a spreadsheet. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:14 PM To: Off Topic Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because shit is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking program. What a crock. There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. GK GK On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 8:50 PM, wrote: > I haven't read this (yet), but it looks like an economics professor has > written a book advancing a hypothesis that all us wage slaves are doomed to > misery and poverty while the folks who own and control capital will > eventually own and control everything. (I suppose this is the long overdue > update of "Das Capital" by Karl Marx.) > > The only problem with this professor's theory is that he relied on > erroneous error-plagued spreadsheet data to support his "facts" and > conclusions. > > http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/05/27/220202/why-you- > shouldnt-use-spreadsheets-for-important-work > > Susan, maybe you can insert a chapter (or a few pages) into your upcoming > Excel book warning people not to get too infatuated with spreadsheets. (I > wonder why articles like this aren't more prevalent about the misuse and/or > misinterpretation of data generated from databases?) > > Positive Alan of Huntsville > > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Wed May 28 14:16:01 2014 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 14:16:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets For Important Work In-Reply-To: References: <20140527205022.180361akx5kj3un2@webmail.hiwaay.net> Message-ID: Sorry I didn't realize this was copied to the Access D List. I was under the impression it was an DBA-OT list post only. Oops. Should have been paying closer attention. GK On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 9:13 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because > shit is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking program. > What a crock. > > There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. > But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. > > Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. > > GK > > GK > > > On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 8:50 PM, wrote: > >> I haven't read this (yet), but it looks like an economics professor has >> written a book advancing a hypothesis that all us wage slaves are doomed to >> misery and poverty while the folks who own and control capital will >> eventually own and control everything. (I suppose this is the long overdue >> update of "Das Capital" by Karl Marx.) >> >> The only problem with this professor's theory is that he relied on >> erroneous error-plagued spreadsheet data to support his "facts" and >> conclusions. >> >> http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/05/27/220202/why-you- >> shouldnt-use-spreadsheets-for-important-work >> >> Susan, maybe you can insert a chapter (or a few pages) into your upcoming >> Excel book warning people not to get too infatuated with spreadsheets. (I >> wonder why articles like this aren't more prevalent about the misuse and/or >> misinterpretation of data generated from databases?) >> >> Positive Alan of Huntsville >> >> >> > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From garykjos at gmail.com Wed May 28 14:20:55 2014 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 14:20:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work In-Reply-To: <30E05312BBB84C819B350BD71EFEA4D2@XPS> References: <20140527205022.180361akx5kj3un2@webmail.hiwaay.net> <30E05312BBB84C819B350BD71EFEA4D2@XPS> Message-ID: Well you CAN lock down spreadsheets. Just nobody hardly ever does. I'm not advocating the use of spreadsheets though. Just saying that just as there are good ones and bad ones there are also good and bad programs out there. GK On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Because their changed to easily, do not have the under pinning's of a > coded > language, etc. > > In short, great for ad-hoc work, but that's the very reason auditors don't > like them. > > I've already been involved in IT audit where I was asked to provide source > and compiled libs and had to prove that every change in source was > requested > with a ticket, by whom, who authorized it, and why it was done. > > Try doing that with a spreadsheet. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:14 PM > To: Off Topic > Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets > ForImportant Work > > And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because shit > is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking program. What > a crock. > > There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. > But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. > > Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. > > GK > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed May 28 14:23:20 2014 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 12:23:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Recently posted on the Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN) which may be of interest In-Reply-To: References: <9627CA1C9ED94E6CAD8ABE15EED16648@XPS> Message-ID: If it works like an ADP, then that would be a good thing. :) On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 6:02 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > What we heard at the PAUG conference this year was that the future of > Access was as Access services. In other words, a tool to build front ends > for SQL Server and Azure and to throw together cloud web apps backed by > Azure. In any case, not life as we knew it. > > Charlotte > > From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed May 28 14:28:56 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 15:28:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work In-Reply-To: <30E05312BBB84C819B350BD71EFEA4D2@XPS> References: <20140527205022.180361akx5kj3un2@webmail.hiwaay.net> <30E05312BBB84C819B350BD71EFEA4D2@XPS> Message-ID: Does spreadsheet data ever "degrade"? I suspect it does, and that auto recover can adversely affect things after Excel crashes. I would not use spreadsheets to house data, only logic and manipulation techniques. And I would audit the functionality regularly. Many users are not taught what can go wrong with them. It is not always user error, but ignorance. Bill From bradm at blackforestltd.com Wed May 28 15:03:58 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 20:03:58 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] =?windows-1252?q?Can_a_=22Scheduled=22_Access_applicati?= =?windows-1252?q?on_run_under_Windows_Server_2012_in_=93Logged_Off=94_Mod?= =?windows-1252?q?e=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <327f4815afff457da76a9d8c6afc8878@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> All, Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an Access application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I believe that this problem has nothing to do with the script. I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an Access application in ?Logged Off? mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL Server, Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every night. These jobs have worked nicely for over five years while running on an old server with Windows Server 2003. Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I cannot get any Access application to run in logged off mode via the Task Scheduler. Has anyone been able to do this? Have others run into this same problem? We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that 2008 and 2011 are similar to 2012. Thanks, Brad From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed May 28 15:10:39 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 16:10:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Can_a_=22Scheduled=22_Access_application_run_?= =?utf-8?q?under_Windows_Server_2012_in_=E2=80=9CLogged_Off?= =?utf-8?b?4oCdIE1vZGU/?= In-Reply-To: <327f4815afff457da76a9d8c6afc8878@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <327f4815afff457da76a9d8c6afc8878@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Well since you did not respond to me I would not know... On May 28, 2014 4:05 PM, "Brad Marks" wrote: > All, > > Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an Access > application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I believe that > this problem has nothing to do with the script. > > I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an Access > application in ?Logged Off? mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. > > I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL Server, > Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every night. These > jobs have worked nicely for over five years while running on an old server > with Windows Server 2003. > > Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I cannot > get any Access application to run in logged off mode via the Task Scheduler. > > Has anyone been able to do this? > > Have others run into this same problem? > > We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that > 2008 and 2011 are similar to 2012. > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed May 28 15:13:15 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 16:13:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Can_a_=22Scheduled=22_Access_application_run_?= =?utf-8?q?under_Windows_Server_2012_in_=E2=80=9CLogged_Off?= =?utf-8?b?4oCdIE1vZGU/?= In-Reply-To: References: <327f4815afff457da76a9d8c6afc8878@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Woops here is a double helping of humble pie, I did not read the correct post/reply first. Sorry could not help Brad. On May 28, 2014 4:10 PM, "Bill Benson" wrote: > Well since you did not respond to me I would not know... > On May 28, 2014 4:05 PM, "Brad Marks" wrote: > >> All, >> >> Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an Access >> application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I believe that >> this problem has nothing to do with the script. >> >> I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an Access >> application in ?Logged Off? mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. >> >> I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL Server, >> Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every night. These >> jobs have worked nicely for over five years while running on an old server >> with Windows Server 2003. >> >> Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I cannot >> get any Access application to run in logged off mode via the Task Scheduler. >> >> Has anyone been able to do this? >> >> Have others run into this same problem? >> >> We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that >> 2008 and 2011 are similar to 2012. >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed May 28 15:17:38 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 16:17:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Moving_Access_Application_to_Windows_Server_?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=93_Task_Scheduler_Problem?= In-Reply-To: <71321a75267143a7815c091dd1673339@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <9317D411B48C4DF390DF8741A7444059@XPS> <00ce01cf79c8$b584e7c0$208eb740$@gmail.com> <7EB05B1BF52645CFBF220E430E30517F@XPS> <00db01cf79cd$5d5b12e0$181138a0$@gmail.com> <68bc9db7a0b042f79d6997c5fb962348@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <71321a75267143a7815c091dd1673339@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Too bad. Thought the other post had nailed it. But truthfully you have called my bluff, I don't live in a networked world. I have NEVER had an application that TM ran, on a.machine that was not logged in. In fact I specifically remembering leaving a standalone machine turned on and logged in just so it could connect to the network and run scheduled tasks. Why can't that be done where you are? Also, why is this showing up in my Google Mail in its own thread I wonder, did the discussion headers get modified? Weird. On May 28, 2014 11:57 AM, "Brad Marks" wrote: > Bill, > > Thanks for the help. I tried the steps that you posted, but still no luck. > > In order to debug this issue, I have set up a very small Access > application that simply writes one record to a log file when it is > initiated. > > I then used the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler to establish a new > Scheduled Task which initiates MSACCESS.EXE directly with the name of the > little accdr file as a parameter. Running this task from the Task > Scheduler works properly when it is set to "Run Only When User is Logged > On". I can see that it is working by looking at the log file. > > However, when I change the setting to "Run Whether User is Logged on or > Not", things do not work. No record is written to the log file. When I > look at the Task Manager I see "Microsoft Access (32 bit)" in the process > list. > > I have looked at the logs via the Event Viewer but have not found > anything. My experience with the Event Viewer is quite limited, so maybe I > am not looking in the right place. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 3:23 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving Access Reporting Applications from Windows > Server 2003 to Windows Server 2012 ? Initiation Problem > > Btw, may be red herring but I am getting this from: > > > http://blogs.technet.com/b/askperf/archive/2012/04/18/task-scheduler-error-a-specified-logon-session-does-not-exist.aspx > > Additional guidance: > > How to open the "Local Group Policy Editor" > > 1. click Run, type gpedit.msc, and then click OK. > > 2.Under Computer Configuration, expand Windows Settings, expand Security > Settings, expand Local Policies, and then expand Security Options. > > 3.In the Policy pane, right-click Network access: Do not allow storage of > credentials or .NET Passports for network authentication, click Properties, > click Disabled, and then click OK. > On May 27, 2014 4:19 PM, "Bill Benson" wrote: > > > Check the network policy in the Local Group Policy Editor (if there is > > one in 2012, I think it came along with 2008 Server). > > > > If the Network "Do not allow storage of passwords and credentials for > > network authentication policy is enabled and applied, Credential > > Manager cannot store the credentials locally, and this might be what is > hurting you. > > On May 27, 2014 4:11 PM, "Brad Marks" wrote: > > > >> All, > >> > >> We are in the process of replacing our old Windows Server 2003 > >> machine with a new box that is going to run Windows Server 2012 R2. > >> > >> I have a number of Access applications that are run at night to > >> create reports. These report jobs are initiated via small scripts > >> which are used for a number of ?utility? type tasks that are related > >> to the generation of the Access reports. > >> > >> Currently with Windows Server 2003, we have scheduled tasks set up to > >> initiate the little scripts. These scripts in turn do their tasks > >> and then initiate the appropriate Access accdr file to create the > reports. > >> > >> This approach has worked well for several years in the Windows Server > >> 2003 environment, but not so smoothly in the Windows Server 2012 > >> environment. > >> > >> If I have the Windows 2012 Task Scheduler set to ?Only Run While > >> Logged On? everything works fine (as long as I am logged on). > >> > >> If I have the Windows 2012 Task Scheduler set to ?Run While Logged On > >> or Logged Off?, the script is initiated, and it does a number of > >> small tasks properly. However, when it tries to initiate the Access > >> accdr file, nothing happens. The Access application is not fired up > >> and there are no error messages. > >> > >> Perhaps this is a new "feature" of the Task Scheduler. > >> > >> Has anyone else run into this issue? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Brad > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed May 28 15:25:49 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 16:25:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? In-Reply-To: <327f4815afff457da76a9d8c6afc8878@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <327f4815afff457da76a9d8c6afc8878@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <5DF83F5B84124C10A53343F9816E7A67@XPS> Couple of thoughts: 1. Your running afoul of UAC - Make sure you check the box "run with elevated privileges" (or some such - don't remember what it is off-hand at the moment). 2. Keep in mind that when your in a logged off state, there is no user desktop, drives may not be mapped, etc. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? All, Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an Access application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I believe that this problem has nothing to do with the script. I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an Access application in "Logged Off" mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL Server, Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every night. These jobs have worked nicely for over five years while running on an old server with Windows Server 2003. Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I cannot get any Access application to run in logged off mode via the Task Scheduler. Has anyone been able to do this? Have others run into this same problem? We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that 2008 and 2011 are similar to 2012. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Wed May 28 15:27:23 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 20:27:23 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Moving_Access_Application_to_Windows_Server_?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=93_Task_Scheduler_Problem?= In-Reply-To: References: <9317D411B48C4DF390DF8741A7444059@XPS> <00ce01cf79c8$b584e7c0$208eb740$@gmail.com> <7EB05B1BF52645CFBF220E430E30517F@XPS> <00db01cf79cd$5d5b12e0$181138a0$@gmail.com> <68bc9db7a0b042f79d6997c5fb962348@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <71321a75267143a7815c091dd1673339@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <9cb4d278e9f540e3be837b88e1a75807@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Bill, Yes, we could get around this problem by setting up a standalone machine that is always logged on. I would like to avoid this if I can find a way to make things work with the Windows Task Scheduler. Not sure about the Google Mail deal. Maybe I messed something up in an earlier post. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving Access Application to Windows Server ? Task Scheduler Problem Too bad. Thought the other post had nailed it. But truthfully you have called my bluff, I don't live in a networked world. I have NEVER had an application that TM ran, on a.machine that was not logged in. In fact I specifically remembering leaving a standalone machine turned on and logged in just so it could connect to the network and run scheduled tasks. Why can't that be done where you are? Also, why is this showing up in my Google Mail in its own thread I wonder, did the discussion headers get modified? Weird. On May 28, 2014 11:57 AM, "Brad Marks" wrote: > Bill, > > Thanks for the help. I tried the steps that you posted, but still no luck. > > In order to debug this issue, I have set up a very small Access > application that simply writes one record to a log file when it is > initiated. > > I then used the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler to establish a new > Scheduled Task which initiates MSACCESS.EXE directly with the name of > the little accdr file as a parameter. Running this task from the Task > Scheduler works properly when it is set to "Run Only When User is > Logged On". I can see that it is working by looking at the log file. > > However, when I change the setting to "Run Whether User is Logged on > or Not", things do not work. No record is written to the log file. > When I look at the Task Manager I see "Microsoft Access (32 bit)" in > the process list. > > I have looked at the logs via the Event Viewer but have not found > anything. My experience with the Event Viewer is quite limited, so > maybe I am not looking in the right place. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 3:23 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving Access Reporting Applications from > Windows Server 2003 to Windows Server 2012 ? Initiation Problem > > Btw, may be red herring but I am getting this from: > > > http://blogs.technet.com/b/askperf/archive/2012/04/18/task-scheduler-e > rror-a-specified-logon-session-does-not-exist.aspx > > Additional guidance: > > How to open the "Local Group Policy Editor" > > 1. click Run, type gpedit.msc, and then click OK. > > 2.Under Computer Configuration, expand Windows Settings, expand > Security Settings, expand Local Policies, and then expand Security Options. > > 3.In the Policy pane, right-click Network access: Do not allow storage > of credentials or .NET Passports for network authentication, click > Properties, click Disabled, and then click OK. > On May 27, 2014 4:19 PM, "Bill Benson" wrote: > > > Check the network policy in the Local Group Policy Editor (if there > > is one in 2012, I think it came along with 2008 Server). > > > > If the Network "Do not allow storage of passwords and credentials > > for network authentication policy is enabled and applied, Credential > > Manager cannot store the credentials locally, and this might be what > > is > hurting you. > > On May 27, 2014 4:11 PM, "Brad Marks" wrote: > > > >> All, > >> > >> We are in the process of replacing our old Windows Server 2003 > >> machine with a new box that is going to run Windows Server 2012 R2. > >> > >> I have a number of Access applications that are run at night to > >> create reports. These report jobs are initiated via small scripts > >> which are used for a number of ?utility? type tasks that are > >> related to the generation of the Access reports. > >> > >> Currently with Windows Server 2003, we have scheduled tasks set up > >> to initiate the little scripts. These scripts in turn do their > >> tasks and then initiate the appropriate Access accdr file to create > >> the > reports. > >> > >> This approach has worked well for several years in the Windows > >> Server > >> 2003 environment, but not so smoothly in the Windows Server 2012 > >> environment. > >> > >> If I have the Windows 2012 Task Scheduler set to ?Only Run While > >> Logged On? everything works fine (as long as I am logged on). > >> > >> If I have the Windows 2012 Task Scheduler set to ?Run While Logged > >> On or Logged Off?, the script is initiated, and it does a number of > >> small tasks properly. However, when it tries to initiate the > >> Access accdr file, nothing happens. The Access application is not > >> fired up and there are no error messages. > >> > >> Perhaps this is a new "feature" of the Task Scheduler. > >> > >> Has anyone else run into this issue? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Brad > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Wed May 28 15:36:34 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 20:36:34 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? In-Reply-To: <5DF83F5B84124C10A53343F9816E7A67@XPS> References: <327f4815afff457da76a9d8c6afc8878@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5DF83F5B84124C10A53343F9816E7A67@XPS> Message-ID: Jim, 1. I have run many tests while experimenting with the Task Scheduler options. The "Elevated Privileges" option sounded promising, but it did not seem to make any difference. 2. You are right, there are several things to keep in mind when running Access in logged off mode. We have been doing this for a long time and over all it has worked very well. I work for a small firm with a very limited budget. Access has been great for reports and inquiries (both on demand and scheduled) and the cost is very low compared to the alternatives. Our nightly jobs all use UNCs instead of drive mappings. The programs have no need for user interaction. All messages and error logic uses sequential log files. I hope that we can find a way to make this all work with the Windows Server Task Scheduler. It is my understanding that there are third party Job Schedulers available for less than $100. Thanks for your ideas. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Couple of thoughts: 1. Your running afoul of UAC - Make sure you check the box "run with elevated privileges" (or some such - don't remember what it is off-hand at the moment). 2. Keep in mind that when your in a logged off state, there is no user desktop, drives may not be mapped, etc. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? All, Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an Access application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I believe that this problem has nothing to do with the script. I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an Access application in "Logged Off" mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL Server, Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every night. These jobs have worked nicely for over five years while running on an old server with Windows Server 2003. Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I cannot get any Access application to run in logged off mode via the Task Scheduler. Has anyone been able to do this? Have others run into this same problem? We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that 2008 and 2011 are similar to 2012. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed May 28 18:15:48 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 23:15:48 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work In-Reply-To: References: <20140527205022.180361akx5kj3un2@webmail.hiwaay.net> <30E05312BBB84C819B350BD71EFEA4D2@XPS> Message-ID: Excel is just a tool. A pretty darn good one for the job it was built to do - although it is used for a vast array of solutions outside of its core design strengths. It is surprising adept at other tasks. For example, Excel is a much better photo editor / graphics tool than Photoshop is at doing maths. Who would have thought? Like all tools, how effective it is utilised depends on the skill and smarts of the user. You can get the cat food out of the tin with a screwdriver and hammer, it is just a lot clean, faster and neater to use a can opener. Locking down Excel tightly removes all that is good and powerful about Excel. If you need to lock it down like that you are using the wrong tool and severely limiting your tool box in my opinion. Excel is mostly an analytical / 'what if?' reporting tool. That is what it 'excels' at. Leave your source data somewhere safe and do the number mashing and scenario testing in Excel. Worked with spreadsheets since Lotus 123 days - even had a play with visicalc, but professionally started with 123. Whilst I have seen a lot, I am still surprised at times with what folks do with Excel. It is still the killer application for the PC - although one that needs to be treated with respect and care else it will bite you back. Long live the King I say :) Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2014 5:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work Well you CAN lock down spreadsheets. Just nobody hardly ever does. I'm not advocating the use of spreadsheets though. Just saying that just as there are good ones and bad ones there are also good and bad programs out there. GK On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Because their changed to easily, do not have the under pinning's of a > coded language, etc. > > In short, great for ad-hoc work, but that's the very reason auditors > don't like them. > > I've already been involved in IT audit where I was asked to provide > source and compiled libs and had to prove that every change in source > was requested with a ticket, by whom, who authorized it, and why it > was done. > > Try doing that with a spreadsheet. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:14 PM > To: Off Topic > Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets > ForImportant Work > > And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because > shit is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking > program. What a crock. > > There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. > But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. > > Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. > > GK > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed May 28 18:18:54 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 23:18:54 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work In-Reply-To: References: <20140527205022.180361akx5kj3un2@webmail.hiwaay.net> <30E05312BBB84C819B350BD71EFEA4D2@XPS> Message-ID: Amen to this Bill. I always turn Auto-recover off, it is more trouble that it is worth and can slow thing right down as well. Just save the darn workbook whenever you need too. How hard is it add "ctrl+s" to your keystrokes when required? The vast majority of errors I audit and fix are due to ignorance and carelessness. You either seem to understand spreadsheet logic or you don't. Hmmmm... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2014 5:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work Does spreadsheet data ever "degrade"? I suspect it does, and that auto recover can adversely affect things after Excel crashes. I would not use spreadsheets to house data, only logic and manipulation techniques. And I would audit the functionality regularly. Many users are not taught what can go wrong with them. It is not always user error, but ignorance. Bill -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jbartow at winhaven.net Wed May 28 19:49:19 2014 From: jbartow at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 19:49:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work In-Reply-To: References: <20140527205022.180361akx5kj3un2@webmail.hiwaay.net> <30E05312BBB84C819B350BD71EFEA4D2@XPS> Message-ID: <01a401cf7ad7$d3a6e040$7af4a0c0$@winhaven.net> I'm pretty surprised this hasn't devolved into an Excel versus argument yet ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 6:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work Excel is just a tool. A pretty darn good one for the job it was built to do - although it is used for a vast array of solutions outside of its core design strengths. It is surprising adept at other tasks. For example, Excel is a much better photo editor / graphics tool than Photoshop is at doing maths. Who would have thought? Like all tools, how effective it is utilised depends on the skill and smarts of the user. You can get the cat food out of the tin with a screwdriver and hammer, it is just a lot clean, faster and neater to use a can opener. Locking down Excel tightly removes all that is good and powerful about Excel. If you need to lock it down like that you are using the wrong tool and severely limiting your tool box in my opinion. Excel is mostly an analytical / 'what if?' reporting tool. That is what it 'excels' at. Leave your source data somewhere safe and do the number mashing and scenario testing in Excel. Worked with spreadsheets since Lotus 123 days - even had a play with visicalc, but professionally started with 123. Whilst I have seen a lot, I am still surprised at times with what folks do with Excel. It is still the killer application for the PC - although one that needs to be treated with respect and care else it will bite you back. Long live the King I say :) Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2014 5:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work Well you CAN lock down spreadsheets. Just nobody hardly ever does. I'm not advocating the use of spreadsheets though. Just saying that just as there are good ones and bad ones there are also good and bad programs out there. GK On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Because their changed to easily, do not have the under pinning's of a > coded language, etc. > > In short, great for ad-hoc work, but that's the very reason auditors > don't like them. > > I've already been involved in IT audit where I was asked to provide > source and compiled libs and had to prove that every change in source > was requested with a ticket, by whom, who authorized it, and why it > was done. > > Try doing that with a spreadsheet. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:14 PM > To: Off Topic > Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets > ForImportant Work > > And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because > shit is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking > program. What a crock. > > There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. > But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. > > Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. > > GK > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed May 28 20:47:16 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 01:47:16 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work In-Reply-To: <01a401cf7ad7$d3a6e040$7af4a0c0$@winhaven.net> References: <20140527205022.180361akx5kj3un2@webmail.hiwaay.net> <30E05312BBB84C819B350BD71EFEA4D2@XPS> <01a401cf7ad7$d3a6e040$7af4a0c0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Heh... That's mostly because Excel is still by far the leading spreadsheet offering on nearly any metric you choose - the others are just toys to tinker with. Sure Google docs and Open office offer some uses for those who use Excel like a calculator on 'roids or want to (shudder) collaborate using a single workbook (some pros, big cons in my opinion). But Excel has a few aces up its sleeve, including, but not limited to; 1: Global acceptance. You can send anyone an Excel file and it can generally be accessed seamlessly, or well enough. 2: Stand-alone files that can be saved as versions and or emailed. Whilst some see this as a shortcoming, a lot of folks prefer it over the "many random hands tampering with my work" Google model. Something are not meant to be adjusted by 'do-gooders'! 3: VBA - the golden goose and the primary reason Excel still rules. It makes it much more powerful and useful than the competition. VBA gives Excel huge flexibility and power. Something Google Docs et al cannot touch. This alone will keep Excel as No 1. in most places. Excel's deeply entrenched position globally is largely due to VBA and how you can integrate it seamlessly with other apps (SQL Server, mySQL etc, plus any other MS Office application). Running a Pivot table directly from an external backend database for example. Highly useful. The 'macro recorder' means even the most basic user can automate repeat tasks with relative ease and anyone with basic coding skills can start to bring the power of VBA and Excel to life. There are many millions of VBA driven spreadsheets out there - Google docs is just a fat old calculator with limit functionality. 4: Ease of integration with other MS products. 5: Familiarity - most folks know how to use it, even if they do it badly much of the time. 6: Keyboard shortcuts that have stayed the same over many years. I am sure I could dig up a few more without too much bother. :) Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2014 10:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work I'm pretty surprised this hasn't devolved into an Excel versus argument yet ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 6:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work Excel is just a tool. A pretty darn good one for the job it was built to do - although it is used for a vast array of solutions outside of its core design strengths. It is surprising adept at other tasks. For example, Excel is a much better photo editor / graphics tool than Photoshop is at doing maths. Who would have thought? Like all tools, how effective it is utilised depends on the skill and smarts of the user. You can get the cat food out of the tin with a screwdriver and hammer, it is just a lot clean, faster and neater to use a can opener. Locking down Excel tightly removes all that is good and powerful about Excel. If you need to lock it down like that you are using the wrong tool and severely limiting your tool box in my opinion. Excel is mostly an analytical / 'what if?' reporting tool. That is what it 'excels' at. Leave your source data somewhere safe and do the number mashing and scenario testing in Excel. Worked with spreadsheets since Lotus 123 days - even had a play with visicalc, but professionally started with 123. Whilst I have seen a lot, I am still surprised at times with what folks do with Excel. It is still the killer application for the PC - although one that needs to be treated with respect and care else it will bite you back. Long live the King I say :) Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2014 5:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work Well you CAN lock down spreadsheets. Just nobody hardly ever does. I'm not advocating the use of spreadsheets though. Just saying that just as there are good ones and bad ones there are also good and bad programs out there. GK On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Because their changed to easily, do not have the under pinning's of a > coded language, etc. > > In short, great for ad-hoc work, but that's the very reason auditors > don't like them. > > I've already been involved in IT audit where I was asked to provide > source and compiled libs and had to prove that every change in source > was requested with a ticket, by whom, who authorized it, and why it > was done. > > Try doing that with a spreadsheet. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:14 PM > To: Off Topic > Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets > ForImportant Work > > And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because > shit is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking > program. What a crock. > > There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. > But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. > > Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. > > GK > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 29 03:46:48 2014 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 08:46:48 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] =?windows-1252?q?Can_a_=22Scheduled=22_Access_applicati?= =?windows-1252?q?on_run_under_Windows_Server_2012_in_=93Logged_Off=94_Mod?= =?windows-1252?q?e=3F?= In-Reply-To: <327f4815afff457da76a9d8c6afc8878@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: , <327f4815afff457da76a9d8c6afc8878@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <1401353207841.29821@cactus.dk> Hi Brad I wonder how you did this in W2003. To my best knowledge you can't run a desktop app without a logon. Even if you should succeed, W2012 (R2) is not intended for this purpose. Create a Hyper-V virtual machine running Windows 8.1 (fastest) or another desktop OS. Configure this to always start and, when started, to autologon to a restricted user account. /gustav ________________________________________ Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com p? vegne af Brad Marks Sendt: 28. maj 2014 22:03 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in ?Logged Off? Mode? All, Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an Access application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I believe that this problem has nothing to do with the script. I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an Access application in ?Logged Off? mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL Server, Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every night. These jobs have worked nicely for over five years while running on an old server with Windows Server 2003. Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I cannot get any Access application to run in logged off mode via the Task Scheduler. Has anyone been able to do this? Have others run into this same problem? We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that 2008 and 2011 are similar to 2012. Thanks, Brad From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu May 29 05:54:16 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 06:54:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? In-Reply-To: References: <327f4815afff457da76a9d8c6afc8878@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5DF83F5B84124C10A53343F9816E7A67@XPS> Message-ID: <91D4CD3C8FA043209ADF8FD47A17119F@XPS> <> I don't think you will. I had issues moving to 2008, explored a half dozen 3rd party schedulers, even wrote my own in Access, all with the same results. I ended up running everything as a foreground app with a user being constantly logged in. One interesting thing I found there; Application.Quit would often cause a hang where DoCmd.Quit would not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Jim, 1. I have run many tests while experimenting with the Task Scheduler options. The "Elevated Privileges" option sounded promising, but it did not seem to make any difference. 2. You are right, there are several things to keep in mind when running Access in logged off mode. We have been doing this for a long time and over all it has worked very well. I work for a small firm with a very limited budget. Access has been great for reports and inquiries (both on demand and scheduled) and the cost is very low compared to the alternatives. Our nightly jobs all use UNCs instead of drive mappings. The programs have no need for user interaction. All messages and error logic uses sequential log files. I hope that we can find a way to make this all work with the Windows Server Task Scheduler. It is my understanding that there are third party Job Schedulers available for less than $100. Thanks for your ideas. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Couple of thoughts: 1. Your running afoul of UAC - Make sure you check the box "run with elevated privileges" (or some such - don't remember what it is off-hand at the moment). 2. Keep in mind that when your in a logged off state, there is no user desktop, drives may not be mapped, etc. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? All, Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an Access application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I believe that this problem has nothing to do with the script. I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an Access application in "Logged Off" mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL Server, Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every night. These jobs have worked nicely for over five years while running on an old server with Windows Server 2003. Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I cannot get any Access application to run in logged off mode via the Task Scheduler. Has anyone been able to do this? Have others run into this same problem? We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that 2008 and 2011 are similar to 2012. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Thu May 29 06:59:48 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 11:59:48 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] =?windows-1252?q?Can_a_=22Scheduled=22_Access_applicati?= =?windows-1252?q?on_run_under_Windows_Server_2012_in_=93Logged_Off=94_Mod?= =?windows-1252?q?e=3F?= In-Reply-To: <1401353207841.29821@cactus.dk> References: , <327f4815afff457da76a9d8c6afc8878@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>, <1401353207841.29821@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <1401364789362.38740@blackforestltd.com> Gustav, >> I wonder how you did this in W2003 I guess that I was just naive. I wrote an Access application to pull data from several data sources and then create reports (PDF format) from this data. There is no "user interaction". Error handling is set up to write records to a sequential log file (had very few errors in 5 years). I then placed the Access application on a Windows Server 2003 machine and used the Windows Scheduler to run it every night. Because this application has worked so well, I was surprised when I ran into problems with the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler. Thanks for your advice. Brad ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 3:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in ?Logged Off? Mode? Hi Brad I wonder how you did this in W2003. To my best knowledge you can't run a desktop app without a logon. Even if you should succeed, W2012 (R2) is not intended for this purpose. Create a Hyper-V virtual machine running Windows 8.1 (fastest) or another desktop OS. Configure this to always start and, when started, to autologon to a restricted user account. /gustav ________________________________________ Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com p? vegne af Brad Marks Sendt: 28. maj 2014 22:03 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in ?Logged Off? Mode? All, Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an Access application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I believe that this problem has nothing to do with the script. I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an Access application in ?Logged Off? mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL Server, Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every night. These jobs have worked nicely for over five years while running on an old server with Windows Server 2003. Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I cannot get any Access application to run in logged off mode via the Task Scheduler. Has anyone been able to do this? Have others run into this same problem? We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that 2008 and 2011 are similar to 2012. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Thu May 29 07:04:40 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 12:04:40 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? In-Reply-To: <91D4CD3C8FA043209ADF8FD47A17119F@XPS> References: <327f4815afff457da76a9d8c6afc8878@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5DF83F5B84124C10A53343F9816E7A67@XPS> , <91D4CD3C8FA043209ADF8FD47A17119F@XPS> Message-ID: <1401365081286.50017@blackforestltd.com> Jim, Thanks for the advice. I thought that I was running into a problem with how the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler works. Based on your post, it sounds like the problem is related to Access running in "logged off" mode, no matter how the job is scheduled. Brad ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? <> I don't think you will. I had issues moving to 2008, explored a half dozen 3rd party schedulers, even wrote my own in Access, all with the same results. I ended up running everything as a foreground app with a user being constantly logged in. One interesting thing I found there; Application.Quit would often cause a hang where DoCmd.Quit would not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Jim, 1. I have run many tests while experimenting with the Task Scheduler options. The "Elevated Privileges" option sounded promising, but it did not seem to make any difference. 2. You are right, there are several things to keep in mind when running Access in logged off mode. We have been doing this for a long time and over all it has worked very well. I work for a small firm with a very limited budget. Access has been great for reports and inquiries (both on demand and scheduled) and the cost is very low compared to the alternatives. Our nightly jobs all use UNCs instead of drive mappings. The programs have no need for user interaction. All messages and error logic uses sequential log files. I hope that we can find a way to make this all work with the Windows Server Task Scheduler. It is my understanding that there are third party Job Schedulers available for less than $100. Thanks for your ideas. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Couple of thoughts: 1. Your running afoul of UAC - Make sure you check the box "run with elevated privileges" (or some such - don't remember what it is off-hand at the moment). 2. Keep in mind that when your in a logged off state, there is no user desktop, drives may not be mapped, etc. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? All, Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an Access application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I believe that this problem has nothing to do with the script. I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an Access application in "Logged Off" mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL Server, Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every night. These jobs have worked nicely for over five years while running on an old server with Windows Server 2003. Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I cannot get any Access application to run in logged off mode via the Task Scheduler. Has anyone been able to do this? Have others run into this same problem? We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that 2008 and 2011 are similar to 2012. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu May 29 07:42:39 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 08:42:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? In-Reply-To: <1401365081286.50017@blackforestltd.com> References: <327f4815afff457da76a9d8c6afc8878@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5DF83F5B84124C10A53343F9816E7A67@XPS> , <91D4CD3C8FA043209ADF8FD47A17119F@XPS> <1401365081286.50017@blackforestltd.com> Message-ID: <485D9EA889E14DD794B657C8E1EF8C37@XPS> I think that's pretty much what I and the others have found. In fact I'm trying to remember if I ever had a situation where I got an Access based task to run in batch and I don't believe I have. There can be no interaction with the desktop certainly and no use of mapped drives or printers. Is there anything in your app that was changed recently that might pertain to that (i.e. popup a message box)? Or was it simply moved from 2003 to 2012? I can say I that something was changed from 2003 to 2008 R2 as I had a number of issues, but everything that I can remember was already running interactive under 2003, so I don't know if this pertains or not. My problems centered around two things: 1. Application hang at quit 2. C000005 memory access violation at exit. This was with A2000/A2003. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 08:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Jim, Thanks for the advice. I thought that I was running into a problem with how the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler works. Based on your post, it sounds like the problem is related to Access running in "logged off" mode, no matter how the job is scheduled. Brad ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? <> I don't think you will. I had issues moving to 2008, explored a half dozen 3rd party schedulers, even wrote my own in Access, all with the same results. I ended up running everything as a foreground app with a user being constantly logged in. One interesting thing I found there; Application.Quit would often cause a hang where DoCmd.Quit would not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Jim, 1. I have run many tests while experimenting with the Task Scheduler options. The "Elevated Privileges" option sounded promising, but it did not seem to make any difference. 2. You are right, there are several things to keep in mind when running Access in logged off mode. We have been doing this for a long time and over all it has worked very well. I work for a small firm with a very limited budget. Access has been great for reports and inquiries (both on demand and scheduled) and the cost is very low compared to the alternatives. Our nightly jobs all use UNCs instead of drive mappings. The programs have no need for user interaction. All messages and error logic uses sequential log files. I hope that we can find a way to make this all work with the Windows Server Task Scheduler. It is my understanding that there are third party Job Schedulers available for less than $100. Thanks for your ideas. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Couple of thoughts: 1. Your running afoul of UAC - Make sure you check the box "run with elevated privileges" (or some such - don't remember what it is off-hand at the moment). 2. Keep in mind that when your in a logged off state, there is no user desktop, drives may not be mapped, etc. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? All, Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an Access application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I believe that this problem has nothing to do with the script. I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an Access application in "Logged Off" mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL Server, Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every night. These jobs have worked nicely for over five years while running on an old server with Windows Server 2003. Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I cannot get any Access application to run in logged off mode via the Task Scheduler. Has anyone been able to do this? Have others run into this same problem? We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that 2008 and 2011 are similar to 2012. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Thu May 29 07:55:30 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 12:55:30 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? In-Reply-To: <485D9EA889E14DD794B657C8E1EF8C37@XPS> References: <327f4815afff457da76a9d8c6afc8878@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5DF83F5B84124C10A53343F9816E7A67@XPS> , <91D4CD3C8FA043209ADF8FD47A17119F@XPS> <1401365081286.50017@blackforestltd.com>, <485D9EA889E14DD794B657C8E1EF8C37@XPS> Message-ID: <1401368130999.16284@blackforestltd.com> Jim, For testing, I built a very small Access application that simply writes one record to a sequential log file when the application is initiated. Via the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler, this little Access application will run nicely when I select the option "Only Run While Logged On". I can see the record that was added to the log file by the ap. When I choose the Task Scheduler Option "Run While Either Logged on or Logged Off" the Access application seems to hang as soon as it is loaded. There is no log record added. If I go into the Task Manager I can see Access just sitting there, doing nothing. I am trying to figure out if this is a new "feature" of Windows Server 2012 or if I am running into something else, such as an authorization issue. Thanks for your help. Brad PS. I got my start with computers back in 1975 running batch jobs on an IBM mainframe (JCL, COBOL, VSAM, etc). I sometimes joke that I treat the Windows Server as an IBM Mainframe. Maybe this is what is getting me into trouble :-) ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 7:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? I think that's pretty much what I and the others have found. In fact I'm trying to remember if I ever had a situation where I got an Access based task to run in batch and I don't believe I have. There can be no interaction with the desktop certainly and no use of mapped drives or printers. Is there anything in your app that was changed recently that might pertain to that (i.e. popup a message box)? Or was it simply moved from 2003 to 2012? I can say I that something was changed from 2003 to 2008 R2 as I had a number of issues, but everything that I can remember was already running interactive under 2003, so I don't know if this pertains or not. My problems centered around two things: 1. Application hang at quit 2. C000005 memory access violation at exit. This was with A2000/A2003. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 08:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Jim, Thanks for the advice. I thought that I was running into a problem with how the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler works. Based on your post, it sounds like the problem is related to Access running in "logged off" mode, no matter how the job is scheduled. Brad ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? <> I don't think you will. I had issues moving to 2008, explored a half dozen 3rd party schedulers, even wrote my own in Access, all with the same results. I ended up running everything as a foreground app with a user being constantly logged in. One interesting thing I found there; Application.Quit would often cause a hang where DoCmd.Quit would not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Jim, 1. I have run many tests while experimenting with the Task Scheduler options. The "Elevated Privileges" option sounded promising, but it did not seem to make any difference. 2. You are right, there are several things to keep in mind when running Access in logged off mode. We have been doing this for a long time and over all it has worked very well. I work for a small firm with a very limited budget. Access has been great for reports and inquiries (both on demand and scheduled) and the cost is very low compared to the alternatives. Our nightly jobs all use UNCs instead of drive mappings. The programs have no need for user interaction. All messages and error logic uses sequential log files. I hope that we can find a way to make this all work with the Windows Server Task Scheduler. It is my understanding that there are third party Job Schedulers available for less than $100. Thanks for your ideas. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Couple of thoughts: 1. Your running afoul of UAC - Make sure you check the box "run with elevated privileges" (or some such - don't remember what it is off-hand at the moment). 2. Keep in mind that when your in a logged off state, there is no user desktop, drives may not be mapped, etc. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? All, Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an Access application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I believe that this problem has nothing to do with the script. I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an Access application in "Logged Off" mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL Server, Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every night. These jobs have worked nicely for over five years while running on an old server with Windows Server 2003. Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I cannot get any Access application to run in logged off mode via the Task Scheduler. Has anyone been able to do this? Have others run into this same problem? We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that 2008 and 2011 are similar to 2012. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jbodin at sbor.com Thu May 29 08:02:49 2014 From: jbodin at sbor.com (John Bodin) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 13:02:49 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? In-Reply-To: <1401368130999.16284@blackforestltd.com> References: <327f4815afff457da76a9d8c6afc8878@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5DF83F5B84124C10A53343F9816E7A67@XPS> , <91D4CD3C8FA043209ADF8FD47A17119F@XPS> <1401365081286.50017@blackforestltd.com>, <485D9EA889E14DD794B657C8E1EF8C37@XPS>, <1401368130999.16284@blackforestltd.com> Message-ID: <1401368570350.30727@sbor.com> Jim, any chance the mapped drives are not being created (if your test app utilizes them) in time for Access to recognize? I had this problem on 2k8 server and had to add net use commands into batch file before firing up access. Didn't have the issue with 2k3. Like the Windows 7 'cannot reconnect all drives' message on first login. John Bodin jbodin at sbor.com ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Brad Marks Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 8:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Jim, For testing, I built a very small Access application that simply writes one record to a sequential log file when the application is initiated. Via the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler, this little Access application will run nicely when I select the option "Only Run While Logged On". I can see the record that was added to the log file by the ap. When I choose the Task Scheduler Option "Run While Either Logged on or Logged Off" the Access application seems to hang as soon as it is loaded. There is no log record added. If I go into the Task Manager I can see Access just sitting there, doing nothing. I am trying to figure out if this is a new "feature" of Windows Server 2012 or if I am running into something else, such as an authorization issue. Thanks for your help. Brad PS. I got my start with computers back in 1975 running batch jobs on an IBM mainframe (JCL, COBOL, VSAM, etc). I sometimes joke that I treat the Windows Server as an IBM Mainframe. Maybe this is what is getting me into trouble :-) ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 7:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? I think that's pretty much what I and the others have found. In fact I'm trying to remember if I ever had a situation where I got an Access based task to run in batch and I don't believe I have. There can be no interaction with the desktop certainly and no use of mapped drives or printers. Is there anything in your app that was changed recently that might pertain to that (i.e. popup a message box)? Or was it simply moved from 2003 to 2012? I can say I that something was changed from 2003 to 2008 R2 as I had a number of issues, but everything that I can remember was already running interactive under 2003, so I don't know if this pertains or not. My problems centered around two things: 1. Application hang at quit 2. C000005 memory access violation at exit. This was with A2000/A2003. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 08:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Jim, Thanks for the advice. I thought that I was running into a problem with how the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler works. Based on your post, it sounds like the problem is related to Access running in "logged off" mode, no matter how the job is scheduled. Brad ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? <> I don't think you will. I had issues moving to 2008, explored a half dozen 3rd party schedulers, even wrote my own in Access, all with the same results. I ended up running everything as a foreground app with a user being constantly logged in. One interesting thing I found there; Application.Quit would often cause a hang where DoCmd.Quit would not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Jim, 1. I have run many tests while experimenting with the Task Scheduler options. The "Elevated Privileges" option sounded promising, but it did not seem to make any difference. 2. You are right, there are several things to keep in mind when running Access in logged off mode. We have been doing this for a long time and over all it has worked very well. I work for a small firm with a very limited budget. Access has been great for reports and inquiries (both on demand and scheduled) and the cost is very low compared to the alternatives. Our nightly jobs all use UNCs instead of drive mappings. The programs have no need for user interaction. All messages and error logic uses sequential log files. I hope that we can find a way to make this all work with the Windows Server Task Scheduler. It is my understanding that there are third party Job Schedulers available for less than $100. Thanks for your ideas. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Couple of thoughts: 1. Your running afoul of UAC - Make sure you check the box "run with elevated privileges" (or some such - don't remember what it is off-hand at the moment). 2. Keep in mind that when your in a logged off state, there is no user desktop, drives may not be mapped, etc. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? All, Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an Access application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I believe that this problem has nothing to do with the script. I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an Access application in "Logged Off" mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL Server, Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every night. These jobs have worked nicely for over five years while running on an old server with Windows Server 2003. Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I cannot get any Access application to run in logged off mode via the Task Scheduler. Has anyone been able to do this? Have others run into this same problem? We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that 2008 and 2011 are similar to 2012. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Thu May 29 08:12:47 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 13:12:47 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? In-Reply-To: <1401368570350.30727@sbor.com> References: <327f4815afff457da76a9d8c6afc8878@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5DF83F5B84124C10A53343F9816E7A67@XPS> , <91D4CD3C8FA043209ADF8FD47A17119F@XPS> <1401365081286.50017@blackforestltd.com>, <485D9EA889E14DD794B657C8E1EF8C37@XPS>, <1401368130999.16284@blackforestltd.com>, <1401368570350.30727@sbor.com> Message-ID: <5CBAFB0D-AC87-4D1E-9CC1-0F7675F9373B@blackforestltd.com> John, Thanks for your help. The little Test application uses one UNC and no mapped drives. I have had to get around the drive mapping in previous work with Access applications running in logged off mode. Brad > On May 29, 2014, at 8:05 AM, "John Bodin" wrote: > > Jim, any chance the mapped drives are not being created (if your test app utilizes them) in time for Access to recognize? I had this problem on 2k8 server and had to add net use commands into batch file before firing up access. Didn't have the issue with 2k3. Like the Windows 7 'cannot reconnect all drives' message on first login. > > > > > > John Bodin > > jbodin at sbor.com > > > > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Brad Marks > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 8:55 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? > > Jim, > > For testing, I built a very small Access application that simply writes one record to a sequential log file when the application is initiated. > > Via the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler, this little Access application will run nicely when I select the option "Only Run While Logged On". I can see the record that was added to the log file by the ap. > > When I choose the Task Scheduler Option "Run While Either Logged on or Logged Off" the Access application seems to hang as soon as it is loaded. There is no log record added. If I go into the Task Manager I can see Access just sitting there, doing nothing. > > I am trying to figure out if this is a new "feature" of Windows Server 2012 or if I am running into something else, such as an authorization issue. > > Thanks for your help. > > Brad > > PS. I got my start with computers back in 1975 running batch jobs on an IBM mainframe (JCL, COBOL, VSAM, etc). I sometimes joke that I treat the Windows Server as an IBM Mainframe. Maybe this is what is getting me into trouble :-) > > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Jim Dettman > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 7:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? > > I think that's pretty much what I and the others have found. In fact I'm > trying to remember if I ever had a situation where I got an Access based > task to run in batch and I don't believe I have. > > There can be no interaction with the desktop certainly and no use of > mapped drives or printers. Is there anything in your app that was changed > recently that might pertain to that (i.e. popup a message box)? Or was it > simply moved from 2003 to 2012? > > I can say I that something was changed from 2003 to 2008 R2 as I had a > number of issues, but everything that I can remember was already running > interactive under 2003, so I don't know if this pertains or not. > > My problems centered around two things: > > 1. Application hang at quit > 2. C000005 memory access violation at exit. > > This was with A2000/A2003. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 08:05 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under > Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? > > Jim, > > Thanks for the advice. > > I thought that I was running into a problem with how the Windows Server 2012 > Task Scheduler works. > > Based on your post, it sounds like the problem is related to Access running > in "logged off" mode, no matter how the job is scheduled. > > Brad > > > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > on behalf of Jim Dettman > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:54 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under > Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? > > < Server Task Scheduler. It is my understanding that there are third party > Job Schedulers available for less than $100.>> > > I don't think you will. I had issues moving to 2008, explored a half > dozen 3rd party schedulers, even wrote my own in Access, all with the same > results. I ended up running everything as a foreground app with a user > being constantly logged in. > > One interesting thing I found there; Application.Quit would often cause a > hang where DoCmd.Quit would not. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:37 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under > Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? > > Jim, > > 1. I have run many tests while experimenting with the Task Scheduler > options. The "Elevated Privileges" option sounded promising, but it did not > seem to make any difference. > > 2. You are right, there are several things to keep in mind when running > Access in logged off mode. We have been doing this for a long time and over > all it has worked very well. I work for a small firm with a very limited > budget. Access has been great for reports and inquiries (both on demand and > scheduled) and the cost is very low compared to the alternatives. Our > nightly jobs all use UNCs instead of drive mappings. The programs have no > need for user interaction. All messages and error logic uses sequential log > files. > > I hope that we can find a way to make this all work with the Windows Server > Task Scheduler. It is my understanding that there are third party Job > Schedulers available for less than $100. > > Thanks for your ideas. > > Brad > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:26 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under > Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? > > > Couple of thoughts: > > 1. Your running afoul of UAC - Make sure you check the box "run with > elevated privileges" (or some such - don't remember what it is off-hand at > the moment). > > 2. Keep in mind that when your in a logged off state, there is no user > desktop, drives may not be mapped, etc. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows > Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? > > All, > > Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an Access > application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I believe that > this problem has nothing to do with the script. > > I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an Access > application in "Logged Off" mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. > > I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL Server, > Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every night. These jobs > have worked nicely for over five years while running on an old server with > Windows Server 2003. > > Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I cannot get > any Access application to run in logged off mode via the Task Scheduler. > > Has anyone been able to do this? > > Have others run into this same problem? > > We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that 2008 > and 2011 are similar to 2012. > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 29 09:31:26 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 08:31:26 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1692679476.57097556.1401373886787.JavaMail.root@cds018> It fits the old axiom; "A poor workman blames his tools." Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Collins" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 4:15:48 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work Excel is just a tool. A pretty darn good one for the job it was built to do - although it is used for a vast array of solutions outside of its core design strengths. It is surprising adept at other tasks. For example, Excel is a much better photo editor / graphics tool than Photoshop is at doing maths. Who would have thought? Like all tools, how effective it is utilised depends on the skill and smarts of the user. You can get the cat food out of the tin with a screwdriver and hammer, it is just a lot clean, faster and neater to use a can opener. Locking down Excel tightly removes all that is good and powerful about Excel. If you need to lock it down like that you are using the wrong tool and severely limiting your tool box in my opinion. Excel is mostly an analytical / 'what if?' reporting tool. That is what it 'excels' at. Leave your source data somewhere safe and do the number mashing and scenario testing in Excel. Worked with spreadsheets since Lotus 123 days - even had a play with visicalc, but professionally started with 123. Whilst I have seen a lot, I am still surprised at times with what folks do with Excel. It is still the killer application for the PC - although one that needs to be treated with respect and care else it will bite you back. Long live the King I say :) Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2014 5:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work Well you CAN lock down spreadsheets. Just nobody hardly ever does. I'm not advocating the use of spreadsheets though. Just saying that just as there are good ones and bad ones there are also good and bad programs out there. GK On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Because their changed to easily, do not have the under pinning's of a > coded language, etc. > > In short, great for ad-hoc work, but that's the very reason auditors > don't like them. > > I've already been involved in IT audit where I was asked to provide > source and compiled libs and had to prove that every change in source > was requested with a ticket, by whom, who authorized it, and why it > was done. > > Try doing that with a spreadsheet. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:14 PM > To: Off Topic > Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets > ForImportant Work > > And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because > shit is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking > program. What a crock. > > There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. > But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. > > Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. > > GK > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Thu May 29 10:07:53 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 15:07:53 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work In-Reply-To: <1692679476.57097556.1401373886787.JavaMail.root@cds018> References: , <1692679476.57097556.1401373886787.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: <1401376073593.88850@blackforestltd.com> All, I think that the best thing about Excel is that you can make it "sing and dance" via VBA code in an Access application. I work for a small firm where there are about 15 people who have used Excel for many years. None of them, however, use any Excel Macros (VBA). They were filled with "wonder and amazement" after I whipped up a little VBA for them. One of the Vice Presidents could not understand how an Access application could control Excel. Over a period of time, he kept asking me about this as he was having a difficult time understanding the concept. This went on for several weeks. I drew diagrams, found explanation in books, but still could not get him to understand it. I finally was able to get him to understand how Access could control Excel by asking him to visualize the Access application as a dominatrix and Excel as the submissive partner. He has not asked about any technical topics lately. :-) Brad ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 9:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work It fits the old axiom; "A poor workman blames his tools." Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Collins" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 4:15:48 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work Excel is just a tool. A pretty darn good one for the job it was built to do - although it is used for a vast array of solutions outside of its core design strengths. It is surprising adept at other tasks. For example, Excel is a much better photo editor / graphics tool than Photoshop is at doing maths. Who would have thought? Like all tools, how effective it is utilised depends on the skill and smarts of the user. You can get the cat food out of the tin with a screwdriver and hammer, it is just a lot clean, faster and neater to use a can opener. Locking down Excel tightly removes all that is good and powerful about Excel. If you need to lock it down like that you are using the wrong tool and severely limiting your tool box in my opinion. Excel is mostly an analytical / 'what if?' reporting tool. That is what it 'excels' at. Leave your source data somewhere safe and do the number mashing and scenario testing in Excel. Worked with spreadsheets since Lotus 123 days - even had a play with visicalc, but professionally started with 123. Whilst I have seen a lot, I am still surprised at times with what folks do with Excel. It is still the killer application for the PC - although one that needs to be treated with respect and care else it will bite you back. Long live the King I say :) Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2014 5:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work Well you CAN lock down spreadsheets. Just nobody hardly ever does. I'm not advocating the use of spreadsheets though. Just saying that just as there are good ones and bad ones there are also good and bad programs out there. GK On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Because their changed to easily, do not have the under pinning's of a > coded language, etc. > > In short, great for ad-hoc work, but that's the very reason auditors > don't like them. > > I've already been involved in IT audit where I was asked to provide > source and compiled libs and had to prove that every change in source > was requested with a ticket, by whom, who authorized it, and why it > was done. > > Try doing that with a spreadsheet. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:14 PM > To: Off Topic > Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets > ForImportant Work > > And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because > shit is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking > program. What a crock. > > There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. > But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. > > Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. > > GK > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Thu May 29 10:25:36 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 11:25:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work In-Reply-To: <1692679476.57097556.1401373886787.JavaMail.root@cds018> References: <1692679476.57097556.1401373886787.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: <00b801cf7b52$4c58daa0$e50a8fe0$@gmail.com> Hey, let's face it though ... Spellchecker, Autofill, Autocorrect, data validation, conditional formatting... have all made us believe software will dot our eyes and cross our tease. Right? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work It fits the old axiom; "A poor workman blames his tools." Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Collins" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 4:15:48 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work Excel is just a tool. A pretty darn good one for the job it was built to do - although it is used for a vast array of solutions outside of its core design strengths. It is surprising adept at other tasks. For example, Excel is a much better photo editor / graphics tool than Photoshop is at doing maths. Who would have thought? Like all tools, how effective it is utilised depends on the skill and smarts of the user. You can get the cat food out of the tin with a screwdriver and hammer, it is just a lot clean, faster and neater to use a can opener. Locking down Excel tightly removes all that is good and powerful about Excel. If you need to lock it down like that you are using the wrong tool and severely limiting your tool box in my opinion. Excel is mostly an analytical / 'what if?' reporting tool. That is what it 'excels' at. Leave your source data somewhere safe and do the number mashing and scenario testing in Excel. Worked with spreadsheets since Lotus 123 days - even had a play with visicalc, but professionally started with 123. Whilst I have seen a lot, I am still surprised at times with what folks do with Excel. It is still the killer application for the PC - although one that needs to be treated with respect and care else it will bite you back. Long live the King I say :) Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2014 5:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work Well you CAN lock down spreadsheets. Just nobody hardly ever does. I'm not advocating the use of spreadsheets though. Just saying that just as there are good ones and bad ones there are also good and bad programs out there. GK On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Because their changed to easily, do not have the under pinning's of a > coded language, etc. > > In short, great for ad-hoc work, but that's the very reason auditors > don't like them. > > I've already been involved in IT audit where I was asked to provide > source and compiled libs and had to prove that every change in source > was requested with a ticket, by whom, who authorized it, and why it > was done. > > Try doing that with a spreadsheet. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:14 PM > To: Off Topic > Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets > ForImportant Work > > And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because > shit is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking > program. What a crock. > > There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. > But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. > > Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. > > GK > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jbartow at winhaven.net Thu May 29 10:50:47 2014 From: jbartow at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 10:50:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work In-Reply-To: <00b801cf7b52$4c58daa0$e50a8fe0$@gmail.com> References: <1692679476.57097556.1401373886787.JavaMail.root@cds018> <00b801cf7b52$4c58daa0$e50a8fe0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00be01cf7b55$c3abb340$4b0319c0$@winhaven.net> Ha! Maybe in Excel but in modern devices not so much. I just turned most of that off on my android as it was proving to me how poorly said programming works. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work Hey, let's face it though ... Spellchecker, Autofill, Autocorrect, data validation, conditional formatting... have all made us believe software will dot our eyes and cross our tease. Right? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work It fits the old axiom; "A poor workman blames his tools." Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Collins" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 4:15:48 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work Excel is just a tool. A pretty darn good one for the job it was built to do - although it is used for a vast array of solutions outside of its core design strengths. It is surprising adept at other tasks. For example, Excel is a much better photo editor / graphics tool than Photoshop is at doing maths. Who would have thought? Like all tools, how effective it is utilised depends on the skill and smarts of the user. You can get the cat food out of the tin with a screwdriver and hammer, it is just a lot clean, faster and neater to use a can opener. Locking down Excel tightly removes all that is good and powerful about Excel. If you need to lock it down like that you are using the wrong tool and severely limiting your tool box in my opinion. Excel is mostly an analytical / 'what if?' reporting tool. That is what it 'excels' at. Leave your source data somewhere safe and do the number mashing and scenario testing in Excel. Worked with spreadsheets since Lotus 123 days - even had a play with visicalc, but professionally started with 123. Whilst I have seen a lot, I am still surprised at times with what folks do with Excel. It is still the killer application for the PC - although one that needs to be treated with respect and care else it will bite you back. Long live the King I say :) Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2014 5:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work Well you CAN lock down spreadsheets. Just nobody hardly ever does. I'm not advocating the use of spreadsheets though. Just saying that just as there are good ones and bad ones there are also good and bad programs out there. GK On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Because their changed to easily, do not have the under pinning's of a > coded language, etc. > > In short, great for ad-hoc work, but that's the very reason auditors > don't like them. > > I've already been involved in IT audit where I was asked to provide > source and compiled libs and had to prove that every change in source > was requested with a ticket, by whom, who authorized it, and why it > was done. > > Try doing that with a spreadsheet. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:14 PM > To: Off Topic > Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets > ForImportant Work > > And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because > shit is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking > program. What a crock. > > There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. > But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. > > Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. > > GK > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jbartow at winhaven.net Thu May 29 10:50:47 2014 From: jbartow at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 10:50:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work In-Reply-To: <1401376073593.88850@blackforestltd.com> References: , <1692679476.57097556.1401373886787.JavaMail.root@cds018> <1401376073593.88850@blackforestltd.com> Message-ID: <00bf01cf7b55$c432bd90$4c9838b0$@winhaven.net> Lol, I have not had to go that far but I will keep the analogy in mind for the next slow to grasp simple concepts manager I run across! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:08 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work All, I think that the best thing about Excel is that you can make it "sing and dance" via VBA code in an Access application. I work for a small firm where there are about 15 people who have used Excel for many years. None of them, however, use any Excel Macros (VBA). They were filled with "wonder and amazement" after I whipped up a little VBA for them. One of the Vice Presidents could not understand how an Access application could control Excel. Over a period of time, he kept asking me about this as he was having a difficult time understanding the concept. This went on for several weeks. I drew diagrams, found explanation in books, but still could not get him to understand it. I finally was able to get him to understand how Access could control Excel by asking him to visualize the Access application as a dominatrix and Excel as the submissive partner. He has not asked about any technical topics lately. :-) Brad ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 9:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work It fits the old axiom; "A poor workman blames his tools." Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Collins" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 4:15:48 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work Excel is just a tool. A pretty darn good one for the job it was built to do - although it is used for a vast array of solutions outside of its core design strengths. It is surprising adept at other tasks. For example, Excel is a much better photo editor / graphics tool than Photoshop is at doing maths. Who would have thought? Like all tools, how effective it is utilised depends on the skill and smarts of the user. You can get the cat food out of the tin with a screwdriver and hammer, it is just a lot clean, faster and neater to use a can opener. Locking down Excel tightly removes all that is good and powerful about Excel. If you need to lock it down like that you are using the wrong tool and severely limiting your tool box in my opinion. Excel is mostly an analytical / 'what if?' reporting tool. That is what it 'excels' at. Leave your source data somewhere safe and do the number mashing and scenario testing in Excel. Worked with spreadsheets since Lotus 123 days - even had a play with visicalc, but professionally started with 123. Whilst I have seen a lot, I am still surprised at times with what folks do with Excel. It is still the killer application for the PC - although one that needs to be treated with respect and care else it will bite you back. Long live the King I say :) Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2014 5:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets ForImportant Work Well you CAN lock down spreadsheets. Just nobody hardly ever does. I'm not advocating the use of spreadsheets though. Just saying that just as there are good ones and bad ones there are also good and bad programs out there. GK On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Because their changed to easily, do not have the under pinning's of a > coded language, etc. > > In short, great for ad-hoc work, but that's the very reason auditors > don't like them. > > I've already been involved in IT audit where I was asked to provide > source and compiled libs and had to prove that every change in source > was requested with a ticket, by whom, who authorized it, and why it > was done. > > Try doing that with a spreadsheet. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:14 PM > To: Off Topic > Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Why You Shouldn't Use Spreadsheets > ForImportant Work > > And so WHY exactly shouldn't we trust them? I never got that. Because > shit is in there that could be fucked up? Just like ANY freaking > program. What a crock. > > There are ways of testing spreadsheets. No doubt spreadsheets get misused. > But to say all spreadsheets are evil is not right at all either. > > Here's a one word tip. Crossfoot. > > GK > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 29 11:08:40 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 10:08:40 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? In-Reply-To: <1401365081286.50017@blackforestltd.com> Message-ID: <849452625.57193863.1401379720722.JavaMail.root@cds018> Hi Brad: Can I assume that you have run a command line batch file called from your application? http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc748993.aspx Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Marks" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:04:40 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Jim, Thanks for the advice. I thought that I was running into a problem with how the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler works. Based on your post, it sounds like the problem is related to Access running in "logged off" mode, no matter how the job is scheduled. Brad ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? <> I don't think you will. I had issues moving to 2008, explored a half dozen 3rd party schedulers, even wrote my own in Access, all with the same results. I ended up running everything as a foreground app with a user being constantly logged in. One interesting thing I found there; Application.Quit would often cause a hang where DoCmd.Quit would not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Jim, 1. I have run many tests while experimenting with the Task Scheduler options. The "Elevated Privileges" option sounded promising, but it did not seem to make any difference. 2. You are right, there are several things to keep in mind when running Access in logged off mode. We have been doing this for a long time and over all it has worked very well. I work for a small firm with a very limited budget. Access has been great for reports and inquiries (both on demand and scheduled) and the cost is very low compared to the alternatives. Our nightly jobs all use UNCs instead of drive mappings. The programs have no need for user interaction. All messages and error logic uses sequential log files. I hope that we can find a way to make this all work with the Windows Server Task Scheduler. It is my understanding that there are third party Job Schedulers available for less than $100. Thanks for your ideas. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Couple of thoughts: 1. Your running afoul of UAC - Make sure you check the box "run with elevated privileges" (or some such - don't remember what it is off-hand at the moment). 2. Keep in mind that when your in a logged off state, there is no user desktop, drives may not be mapped, etc. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? All, Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an Access application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I believe that this problem has nothing to do with the script. I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an Access application in "Logged Off" mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL Server, Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every night. These jobs have worked nicely for over five years while running on an old server with Windows Server 2003. Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I cannot get any Access application to run in logged off mode via the Task Scheduler. Has anyone been able to do this? Have others run into this same problem? We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that 2008 and 2011 are similar to 2012. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Thu May 29 11:18:58 2014 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 09:18:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Crossposting Message-ID: RE: [AccessD] [dba-OT] A favor to everyone. I have filters set up, so emails with [AccessD] go to one folder, and [dba-OT] goes to another folder. But when people post to both lists with one email, I get double messages, in both folders. Even when the follow up is to one list or the other, they still go to both folders because both phrases are in the subject line. Please - when responding, delete the [dba-OT] if you are responding on AccessD or the [AccessD] if you are responding on OT. And please send separate emails to each list so this doesn't happen in the first place. Thanks a bunch, for myself, and others who use filtering to conquer their emails. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? From bradm at blackforestltd.com Thu May 29 11:28:38 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 16:28:38 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? In-Reply-To: <849452625.57193863.1401379720722.JavaMail.root@cds018> References: <1401365081286.50017@blackforestltd.com> <849452625.57193863.1401379720722.JavaMail.root@cds018> Message-ID: <0e5d76cc82874cf4be4fd161ac1fa326@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Jim, Thanks for the link. I am trying to get up to speed with the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler and all of its new features. I have tried to run a test Access application both directly from the Scheduler (MSACCESS.EXE) and initiated via a small script. In both cases, the Access application will run nicely when logged on, but will not run nicely when logged off. I have set the Scheduler setting to "Run While Either Logged On or Logged Off". Based on the tests that I have run and from what I have read on various internet forums, I believe that I am either running into some sort of authorization issue or Microsoft has made a change to prevent Access from running in logged off mode. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Hi Brad: Can I assume that you have run a command line batch file called from your application? http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc748993.aspx Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Marks" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:04:40 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Jim, Thanks for the advice. I thought that I was running into a problem with how the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler works. Based on your post, it sounds like the problem is related to Access running in "logged off" mode, no matter how the job is scheduled. Brad ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? <> I don't think you will. I had issues moving to 2008, explored a half dozen 3rd party schedulers, even wrote my own in Access, all with the same results. I ended up running everything as a foreground app with a user being constantly logged in. One interesting thing I found there; Application.Quit would often cause a hang where DoCmd.Quit would not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Jim, 1. I have run many tests while experimenting with the Task Scheduler options. The "Elevated Privileges" option sounded promising, but it did not seem to make any difference. 2. You are right, there are several things to keep in mind when running Access in logged off mode. We have been doing this for a long time and over all it has worked very well. I work for a small firm with a very limited budget. Access has been great for reports and inquiries (both on demand and scheduled) and the cost is very low compared to the alternatives. Our nightly jobs all use UNCs instead of drive mappings. The programs have no need for user interaction. All messages and error logic uses sequential log files. I hope that we can find a way to make this all work with the Windows Server Task Scheduler. It is my understanding that there are third party Job Schedulers available for less than $100. Thanks for your ideas. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Couple of thoughts: 1. Your running afoul of UAC - Make sure you check the box "run with elevated privileges" (or some such - don't remember what it is off-hand at the moment). 2. Keep in mind that when your in a logged off state, there is no user desktop, drives may not be mapped, etc. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? All, Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an Access application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I believe that this problem has nothing to do with the script. I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an Access application in "Logged Off" mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL Server, Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every night. These jobs have worked nicely for over five years while running on an old server with Windows Server 2003. Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I cannot get any Access application to run in logged off mode via the Task Scheduler. Has anyone been able to do this? Have others run into this same problem? We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that 2008 and 2011 are similar to 2012. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Thu May 29 11:29:08 2014 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 11:29:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Crossposting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Unfortunately gmail seems to kind of HIDE the fact that I'm replaying to two lists as demonstrated by my rant to Alan's don't use Excel because it's flawed post which I thought was an OT Only message and it turns out was also copied to AccessD or vice versa. I'm not sure it's going to be an easy thing to remember to check for each time I reply. I will make an effort though. GK On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > RE: [AccessD] [dba-OT] > > A favor to everyone. I have filters set up, so emails with [AccessD] go to > one folder, and [dba-OT] goes to another folder. But when people post to > both lists with one email, I get double messages, in both folders. Even > when > the follow up is to one list or the other, they still go to both folders > because both phrases are in the subject line. > > Please - when responding, delete the [dba-OT] if you are responding on > AccessD or the [AccessD] if you are responding on OT. And please send > separate emails to each list so this doesn't happen in the first place. > > Thanks a bunch, for myself, and others who use filtering to conquer their > emails. > > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 29 11:32:45 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 12:32:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Crossposting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It isn't something any of are going to remember and nor should we be expected to. You're responsible for your own filters. I don't mean to sound harsh, but I'm not going to try to remember something like this. When I get duplicates, I just delete them. I don't see the big deal. Susan H. On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > Unfortunately gmail seems to kind of HIDE the fact that I'm replaying to > two lists as demonstrated by my rant to Alan's don't use Excel because it's > flawed post which I thought was an OT Only message and it turns out was > also copied to AccessD or vice versa. I'm not sure it's going to be an > easy thing to remember to check for each time I reply. I will make an > effort though. > > GK > > > On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Kathryn Bassett > wrote: > > > RE: [AccessD] [dba-OT] > > > > A favor to everyone. I have filters set up, so emails with [AccessD] go > to > > one folder, and [dba-OT] goes to another folder. But when people post to > > both lists with one email, I get double messages, in both folders. Even > > when > > the follow up is to one list or the other, they still go to both folders > > because both phrases are in the subject line. > > > > Please - when responding, delete the [dba-OT] if you are responding on > > AccessD or the [AccessD] if you are responding on OT. And please send > > separate emails to each list so this doesn't happen in the first place. > > > > Thanks a bunch, for myself, and others who use filtering to conquer their > > emails. > > > > > > -- > > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > > kathryn at bassett.net > > http://bassett.net > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From garykjos at gmail.com Thu May 29 11:39:28 2014 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 11:39:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Crossposting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I always appreciate a WARNING when someone was cross posting to more than one list or copying to non-list members. GK On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > It isn't something any of are going to remember and nor should we be > expected to. You're responsible for your own filters. I don't mean to sound > harsh, but I'm not going to try to remember something like this. When I get > duplicates, I just delete them. I don't see the big deal. > > Susan H. > > > On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > > > Unfortunately gmail seems to kind of HIDE the fact that I'm replaying to > > two lists as demonstrated by my rant to Alan's don't use Excel because > it's > > flawed post which I thought was an OT Only message and it turns out was > > also copied to AccessD or vice versa. I'm not sure it's going to be an > > easy thing to remember to check for each time I reply. I will make an > > effort though. > > > > GK > > > > > > On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Kathryn Bassett > > wrote: > > > > > RE: [AccessD] [dba-OT] > > > > > > A favor to everyone. I have filters set up, so emails with [AccessD] go > > to > > > one folder, and [dba-OT] goes to another folder. But when people post > to > > > both lists with one email, I get double messages, in both folders. Even > > > when > > > the follow up is to one list or the other, they still go to both > folders > > > because both phrases are in the subject line. > > > > > > Please - when responding, delete the [dba-OT] if you are responding on > > > AccessD or the [AccessD] if you are responding on OT. And please send > > > separate emails to each list so this doesn't happen in the first place. > > > > > > Thanks a bunch, for myself, and others who use filtering to conquer > their > > > emails. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > > > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > > > kathryn at bassett.net > > > http://bassett.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gary Kjos > > garykjos at gmail.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 29 11:47:29 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 10:47:29 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? In-Reply-To: <0e5d76cc82874cf4be4fd161ac1fa326@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <662082398.57239878.1401382049088.JavaMail.root@cds018> Hi Brad: "running into some sort of authorization issue" would be my guess too. I have found the running a scheduled program can be a two stepper...one; the actual application creates the data and two; the scheduled batch process, independently, in administration mode, processes the batch. Running as a user or as multiple users can go off the rails very quickly. For some applications I had the program create various flag files in a common area which would tell these two separate entities when to process and avoid conflicts. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Marks" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 9:28:38 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Jim, Thanks for the link. I am trying to get up to speed with the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler and all of its new features. I have tried to run a test Access application both directly from the Scheduler (MSACCESS.EXE) and initiated via a small script. In both cases, the Access application will run nicely when logged on, but will not run nicely when logged off. I have set the Scheduler setting to "Run While Either Logged On or Logged Off". Based on the tests that I have run and from what I have read on various internet forums, I believe that I am either running into some sort of authorization issue or Microsoft has made a change to prevent Access from running in logged off mode. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Hi Brad: Can I assume that you have run a command line batch file called from your application? http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc748993.aspx Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Marks" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:04:40 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Jim, Thanks for the advice. I thought that I was running into a problem with how the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler works. Based on your post, it sounds like the problem is related to Access running in "logged off" mode, no matter how the job is scheduled. Brad ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? <> I don't think you will. I had issues moving to 2008, explored a half dozen 3rd party schedulers, even wrote my own in Access, all with the same results. I ended up running everything as a foreground app with a user being constantly logged in. One interesting thing I found there; Application.Quit would often cause a hang where DoCmd.Quit would not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Jim, 1. I have run many tests while experimenting with the Task Scheduler options. The "Elevated Privileges" option sounded promising, but it did not seem to make any difference. 2. You are right, there are several things to keep in mind when running Access in logged off mode. We have been doing this for a long time and over all it has worked very well. I work for a small firm with a very limited budget. Access has been great for reports and inquiries (both on demand and scheduled) and the cost is very low compared to the alternatives. Our nightly jobs all use UNCs instead of drive mappings. The programs have no need for user interaction. All messages and error logic uses sequential log files. I hope that we can find a way to make this all work with the Windows Server Task Scheduler. It is my understanding that there are third party Job Schedulers available for less than $100. Thanks for your ideas. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? Couple of thoughts: 1. Your running afoul of UAC - Make sure you check the box "run with elevated privileges" (or some such - don't remember what it is off-hand at the moment). 2. Keep in mind that when your in a logged off state, there is no user desktop, drives may not be mapped, etc. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? All, Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an Access application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I believe that this problem has nothing to do with the script. I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an Access application in "Logged Off" mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL Server, Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every night. These jobs have worked nicely for over five years while running on an old server with Windows Server 2003. Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I cannot get any Access application to run in logged off mode via the Task Scheduler. Has anyone been able to do this? Have others run into this same problem? We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that 2008 and 2011 are similar to 2012. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael at mattysconsulting.com Thu May 29 15:17:40 2014 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 16:17:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Crossposting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <014901cf7b7b$0c30eac0$2492c040$@mattysconsulting.com> Very cleverly polite, Kathryn. Well done. Thanks for your response, as well, Gary. I gather the OT list is not suit and tie and many don't visit there until after work, if at all. Michael R Mattys Mattys Consulting, LLC www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn Bassett Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Crossposting RE: [AccessD] [dba-OT] A favor to everyone. I have filters set up, so emails with [AccessD] go to one folder, and [dba-OT] goes to another folder. But when people post to both lists with one email, I get double messages, in both folders. Even when the follow up is to one list or the other, they still go to both folders because both phrases are in the subject line. Please - when responding, delete the [dba-OT] if you are responding on AccessD or the [AccessD] if you are responding on OT. And please send separate emails to each list so this doesn't happen in the first place. Thanks a bunch, for myself, and others who use filtering to conquer their emails. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu May 29 17:36:05 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 08:36:05 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Crossposting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5387B655.24440.28B57C17@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Hear, hear. -- Stuart On 29 May 2014 at 9:18, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > RE: [AccessD] [dba-OT] > > A favor to everyone. I have filters set up, so emails with [AccessD] > go to one folder, and [dba-OT] goes to another folder. But when people > post to both lists with one email, I get double messages, in both > folders. Even when the follow up is to one list or the other, they > still go to both folders because both phrases are in the subject line. > > Please - when responding, delete the [dba-OT] if you are responding on > AccessD or the [AccessD] if you are responding on OT. And please send > separate emails to each list so this doesn't happen in the first > place. > > Thanks a bunch, for myself, and others who use filtering to conquer > their emails. > > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net?? > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu May 29 19:10:19 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 10:10:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? In-Reply-To: <1401368130999.16284@blackforestltd.com> References: , <485D9EA889E14DD794B657C8E1EF8C37@XPS>, <1401368130999.16284@blackforestltd.com> Message-ID: <5387CC6B.32760.290BBED3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Just a WAG, but 1. Access by default uses the logged in user's My Documents as the Current Directory. With no logged in user, this may be causing a problem. 2. If there is no logged in user, does the application have rights to create the lock file in the application directory? What happens if you put the application is a directory to which "Everyone" has RW access and change the Access option "Default Database Folder" to the same location? -- Stuart On 29 May 2014 at 12:55, Brad Marks wrote: > Jim, > > For testing, I built a very small Access application that simply > writes one record to a sequential log file when the application is > initiated. > > Via the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler, this little Access > application will run nicely when I select the option "Only Run While > Logged On". I can see the record that was added to the log file by > the ap. > > When I choose the Task Scheduler Option "Run While Either Logged on > or Logged Off" the Access application seems to hang as soon as it is > loaded. There is no log record added. If I go into the Task Manager > I can see Access just sitting there, doing nothing. > > I am trying to figure out if this is a new "feature" of Windows Server > 2012 or if I am running into something else, such as an authorization > issue. > > Thanks for your help. > > Brad > > PS. I got my start with computers back in 1975 running batch jobs on > an IBM mainframe (JCL, COBOL, VSAM, etc). I sometimes joke that I > treat the Windows Server as an IBM Mainframe. Maybe this is what is > getting me into trouble :-) > > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > on behalf of Jim Dettman > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 7:42 AM To: > 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: > [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows > Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? > > I think that's pretty much what I and the others have found. In > fact I'm > trying to remember if I ever had a situation where I got an Access > based task to run in batch and I don't believe I have. > > There can be no interaction with the desktop certainly and no use of > mapped drives or printers. Is there anything in your app that was > changed recently that might pertain to that (i.e. popup a message > box)? Or was it simply moved from 2003 to 2012? > > I can say I that something was changed from 2003 to 2008 R2 as I had > a > number of issues, but everything that I can remember was already > running interactive under 2003, so I don't know if this pertains or > not. > > My problems centered around two things: > > 1. Application hang at quit > 2. C000005 memory access violation at exit. > > This was with A2000/A2003. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 08:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access > application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? > > Jim, > > Thanks for the advice. > > I thought that I was running into a problem with how the Windows > Server 2012 Task Scheduler works. > > Based on your post, it sounds like the problem is related to Access > running in "logged off" mode, no matter how the job is scheduled. > > Brad > > > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > on behalf of Jim Dettman > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:54 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under > Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? > > < Server Task Scheduler. It is my understanding that there are third > party Job Schedulers available for less than $100.>> > > I don't think you will. I had issues moving to 2008, explored a > half > dozen 3rd party schedulers, even wrote my own in Access, all with the > same results. I ended up running everything as a foreground app with > a user being constantly logged in. > > One interesting thing I found there; Application.Quit would often > cause a > hang where DoCmd.Quit would not. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:37 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a > "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in > "Logged Off" Mode? > > Jim, > > 1. I have run many tests while experimenting with the Task Scheduler > options. The "Elevated Privileges" option sounded promising, but it > did not seem to make any difference. > > 2. You are right, there are several things to keep in mind when > running Access in logged off mode. We have been doing this for a long > time and over all it has worked very well. I work for a small firm > with a very limited budget. Access has been great for reports and > inquiries (both on demand and scheduled) and the cost is very low > compared to the alternatives. Our nightly jobs all use UNCs instead > of drive mappings. The programs have no need for user interaction. > All messages and error logic uses sequential log files. > > I hope that we can find a way to make this all work with the Windows > Server Task Scheduler. It is my understanding that there are third > party Job Schedulers available for less than $100. > > Thanks for your ideas. > > Brad > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:26 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a > "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in > "Logged Off" Mode? > > > Couple of thoughts: > > 1. Your running afoul of UAC - Make sure you check the box "run with > elevated privileges" (or some such - don't remember what it is > off-hand at the moment). > > 2. Keep in mind that when your in a logged off state, there is no user > desktop, drives may not be mapped, etc. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:04 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" > Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? > > All, > > Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an > Access application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I > believe that this problem has nothing to do with the script. > > I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an > Access application in "Logged Off" mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. > > I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL > Server, Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every > night. These jobs have worked nicely for over five years while > running on an old server with Windows Server 2003. > > Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I > cannot get any Access application to run in logged off mode via the > Task Scheduler. > > Has anyone been able to do this? > > Have others run into this same problem? > > We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that > 2008 and 2011 are similar to 2012. > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From kathryn at bassett.net Thu May 29 19:28:10 2014 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 17:28:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Crossposting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Of course, the point was to send two messages in the first place, then the threads don't have both elements in the subject line. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: 29 May 2014 9:33 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Crossposting > > It isn't something any of are going to remember and nor should we be > expected to. You're responsible for your own filters. I don't mean to sound > harsh, but I'm not going to try to remember something like this. When I get > duplicates, I just delete them. I don't see the big deal. > > Susan H. From bradm at blackforestltd.com Thu May 29 20:07:56 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 01:07:56 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? In-Reply-To: <5387CC6B.32760.290BBED3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <485D9EA889E14DD794B657C8E1EF8C37@XPS>, <1401368130999.16284@blackforestltd.com>, <5387CC6B.32760.290BBED3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4ADEAC8D-2FEA-4AE2-AC60-F66F2C3A0F1C@blackforestltd.com> Stuart, Thanks for the ideas and suggestions. I plan to experiment with them tomorrow. Brad > On May 29, 2014, at 7:11 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > > Just a WAG, but > > 1. Access by default uses the logged in user's My Documents as the Current Directory. With > no logged in user, this may be causing a problem. > > 2. If there is no logged in user, does the application have rights to create the lock file in the > application directory? > > What happens if you put the application is a directory to which "Everyone" has RW access > and change the Access option "Default Database Folder" to the same location? > > -- > Stuart > > > >> On 29 May 2014 at 12:55, Brad Marks wrote: >> >> Jim, >> >> For testing, I built a very small Access application that simply >> writes one record to a sequential log file when the application is >> initiated. >> >> Via the Windows Server 2012 Task Scheduler, this little Access >> application will run nicely when I select the option "Only Run While >> Logged On". I can see the record that was added to the log file by >> the ap. >> >> When I choose the Task Scheduler Option "Run While Either Logged on >> or Logged Off" the Access application seems to hang as soon as it is >> loaded. There is no log record added. If I go into the Task Manager >> I can see Access just sitting there, doing nothing. >> >> I am trying to figure out if this is a new "feature" of Windows Server >> 2012 or if I am running into something else, such as an authorization >> issue. >> >> Thanks for your help. >> >> Brad >> >> PS. I got my start with computers back in 1975 running batch jobs on >> an IBM mainframe (JCL, COBOL, VSAM, etc). I sometimes joke that I >> treat the Windows Server as an IBM Mainframe. Maybe this is what is >> getting me into trouble :-) >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> on behalf of Jim Dettman >> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 7:42 AM To: >> 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: >> [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows >> Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? >> >> I think that's pretty much what I and the others have found. In >> fact I'm >> trying to remember if I ever had a situation where I got an Access >> based task to run in batch and I don't believe I have. >> >> There can be no interaction with the desktop certainly and no use of >> mapped drives or printers. Is there anything in your app that was >> changed recently that might pertain to that (i.e. popup a message >> box)? Or was it simply moved from 2003 to 2012? >> >> I can say I that something was changed from 2003 to 2008 R2 as I had >> a >> number of issues, but everything that I can remember was already >> running interactive under 2003, so I don't know if this pertains or >> not. >> >> My problems centered around two things: >> >> 1. Application hang at quit >> 2. C000005 memory access violation at exit. >> >> This was with A2000/A2003. >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks >> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 08:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion >> and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access >> application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? >> >> Jim, >> >> Thanks for the advice. >> >> I thought that I was running into a problem with how the Windows >> Server 2012 Task Scheduler works. >> >> Based on your post, it sounds like the problem is related to Access >> running in "logged off" mode, no matter how the job is scheduled. >> >> Brad >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> on behalf of Jim Dettman >> >> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:54 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" Access application run under >> Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? >> >> <> Server Task Scheduler. It is my understanding that there are third >> party Job Schedulers available for less than $100.>> >> >> I don't think you will. I had issues moving to 2008, explored a >> half >> dozen 3rd party schedulers, even wrote my own in Access, all with the >> same results. I ended up running everything as a foreground app with >> a user being constantly logged in. >> >> One interesting thing I found there; Application.Quit would often >> cause a >> hang where DoCmd.Quit would not. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks >> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:37 PM To: Access Developers >> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a >> "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in >> "Logged Off" Mode? >> >> Jim, >> >> 1. I have run many tests while experimenting with the Task Scheduler >> options. The "Elevated Privileges" option sounded promising, but it >> did not seem to make any difference. >> >> 2. You are right, there are several things to keep in mind when >> running Access in logged off mode. We have been doing this for a long >> time and over all it has worked very well. I work for a small firm >> with a very limited budget. Access has been great for reports and >> inquiries (both on demand and scheduled) and the cost is very low >> compared to the alternatives. Our nightly jobs all use UNCs instead >> of drive mappings. The programs have no need for user interaction. >> All messages and error logic uses sequential log files. >> >> I hope that we can find a way to make this all work with the Windows >> Server Task Scheduler. It is my understanding that there are third >> party Job Schedulers available for less than $100. >> >> Thanks for your ideas. >> >> Brad >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman >> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:26 PM To: 'Access Developers >> discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a >> "Scheduled" Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in >> "Logged Off" Mode? >> >> >> Couple of thoughts: >> >> 1. Your running afoul of UAC - Make sure you check the box "run with >> elevated privileges" (or some such - don't remember what it is >> off-hand at the moment). >> >> 2. Keep in mind that when your in a logged off state, there is no user >> desktop, drives may not be mapped, etc. >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks >> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 04:04 PM To: Access Developers >> discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Can a "Scheduled" >> Access application run under Windows Server 2012 in "Logged Off" Mode? >> >> All, >> >> Earlier, I posted a question that involved a script initiating an >> Access application. After doing a fair amount of experimenting, I >> believe that this problem has nothing to do with the script. >> >> I think that it all boils down to whether it is possible to run an >> Access application in "Logged Off" mode under Windows Server 2012 R2. >> >> I have a number of automated report jobs that pull data from SQL >> Server, Pervasive, and Firebird databases to create reports every >> night. These jobs have worked nicely for over five years while >> running on an old server with Windows Server 2003. >> >> Now, with the upgrade to new hardware and Windows Server 2012, I >> cannot get any Access application to run in logged off mode via the >> Task Scheduler. >> >> Has anyone been able to do this? >> >> Have others run into this same problem? >> >> We are migrating from Windows Server 2003 to 2012. I would guess that >> 2008 and 2011 are similar to 2012. >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Thu May 29 21:18:45 2014 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren) Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 12:18:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003: Deploying Stored Procs to SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <00b301cf7583$705073c0$50f15b40$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <019401cf7bad$7d402c30$77c08490$@activebilling.com.au> Hi Arthur, Thanks for your comments. We won't be using 3rd party tools for this. If it can be, it will need to be written in Access/VBA. And comparing the dBs is not an issue, we just want to push already tested Stored Procedures to an editable list of dBs. Many thanks again for your reply. Anyone else with thoughts on the matter? Many thanks in adavance Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, 22 May 2014 7:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2003: Deploying Stored Procs to SQL Server Darren, I confess that I've never tried to "roll my own" for a task like this. There are several tools available from various vendors for just this sort of task. I'm a big fan of Red Gate's toolbelt, which includes a pair of related tools: SQL Compare and SQL Data Compare. Both take a source and target database and compare the two, optionally updating the target to match the source. The Red Gate stuff is available in a trial version. Another vendor offering similar tools is Apex, and there are others as well. Arthur On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 2:02 AM, Darren wrote: > Hi Team > > A colleague asked if I know a way to deploy a 'saved' StoredProcedure, > in an SQL file, to many SQL Server dbs (About 20 dBs) > > The MS command line tool for doing this (I am told) strips the nice > formatting & indents etc. and makes the resulting deployed SPROC had > to read. > > So I said Yep, I can do that in Access. > > So, via code, I thought I'd read in the contents of the SQL File as I > would a stream from a text file. > > Then I would loop through a predefined list of the destination > Databases and their Servers and would create a huge Pass-through > Update Query with a Use DB at the beginning of each desired insert > then simply run the Pass-through query from Access. > > > > (FYI - I do this with something much simpler - IE build and deploy > SPROCS from VBA. Except I don't read in the SQL first - It's hardcoded > in my Access App for my little job) > > > > Anyway I run into issues almost straight away with "GO" statements by > having them in the Pass-through Update Query - Because for one reason > or another these cause the running of the Pass-through update to fail. > > So what I could do is open a query in Query Analyser to each of the > destination dBs and have him run 15-20 queries. > > Or I can put my huge big query into one Query window and let him run > the one big query. > > > > What do you guys do for this kind of thing and what approaches might > your suggest for this scenario? > > Happy to explain it better if you want J > > > > Darren > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Fri May 30 04:00:37 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 05:00:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Crossposting In-Reply-To: <5387B655.24440.28B57C17@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <5387B655.24440.28B57C17@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Now that I have signed up on OT List, I can say There There. On May 29, 2014 6:37 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > Hear, hear. > > -- > Stuart > > On 29 May 2014 at 9:18, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > > > RE: [AccessD] [dba-OT] > > > > A favor to everyone. I have filters set up, so emails with [AccessD] > > go to one folder, and [dba-OT] goes to another folder. But when people > > post to both lists with one email, I get double messages, in both > > folders. Even when the follow up is to one list or the other, they > > still go to both folders because both phrases are in the subject line. > > > > Please - when responding, delete the [dba-OT] if you are responding on > > AccessD or the [AccessD] if you are responding on OT. And please send > > separate emails to each list so this doesn't happen in the first > > place. > > > > Thanks a bunch, for myself, and others who use filtering to conquer > > their emails. > > > > > > -- > > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > > kathryn at bassett.net > > http://bassett.net > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Fri May 30 13:24:04 2014 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 11:24:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2003: Deploying Stored Procs to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <019401cf7bad$7d402c30$77c08490$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00b301cf7583$705073c0$50f15b40$@activebilling.com.au> <019401cf7bad$7d402c30$77c08490$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: Darren, if you can copy the .sql files to the various servers, you might be able to create a sproc on each of the servers that takes input parameters: EXEC xp_cmdshell 'sqlcmd -S ' + @YourServerName + ' -d ' + @YourDataBaseName + ' -i ' + @YourFilePathAndName Modify your Passthrough QueryDef then call the sproc from Access/VBA in each of the servers On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Darren wrote: > Hi Arthur, > Thanks for your comments. We won't be using 3rd party tools for this. > If it can be, it will need to be written in Access/VBA. > And comparing the dBs is not an issue, we just want to push already tested > Stored Procedures to an editable list of dBs. > Many thanks again for your reply. > > Anyone else with thoughts on the matter? > > Many thanks in adavance > Darren > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Thursday, 22 May 2014 7:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2003: Deploying Stored Procs to SQL Server > > Darren, > > I confess that I've never tried to "roll my own" for a task like this. > There are several tools available from various vendors for just this sort > of > task. I'm a big fan of Red Gate's toolbelt, which includes a pair of > related > tools: SQL Compare and SQL Data Compare. Both take a source and target > database and compare the two, optionally updating the target to match the > source. The Red Gate stuff is available in a trial version. > Another vendor offering similar tools is Apex, and there are others as > well. > > Arthur > > > On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 2:02 AM, Darren > wrote: > > > Hi Team > > > > A colleague asked if I know a way to deploy a 'saved' StoredProcedure, > > in an SQL file, to many SQL Server dbs (About 20 dBs) > > > > The MS command line tool for doing this (I am told) strips the nice > > formatting & indents etc. and makes the resulting deployed SPROC had > > to read. > > > > So I said Yep, I can do that in Access. > > > > So, via code, I thought I'd read in the contents of the SQL File as I > > would a stream from a text file. > > > > Then I would loop through a predefined list of the destination > > Databases and their Servers and would create a huge Pass-through > > Update Query with a Use DB at the beginning of each desired insert > > then simply run the Pass-through query from Access. > > > > > > > > (FYI - I do this with something much simpler - IE build and deploy > > SPROCS from VBA. Except I don't read in the SQL first - It's hardcoded > > in my Access App for my little job) > > > > > > > > Anyway I run into issues almost straight away with "GO" statements by > > having them in the Pass-through Update Query - Because for one reason > > or another these cause the running of the Pass-through update to fail. > > > > So what I could do is open a query in Query Analyser to each of the > > destination dBs and have him run 15-20 queries. > > > > Or I can put my huge big query into one Query window and let him run > > the one big query. > > > > > > > > What do you guys do for this kind of thing and what approaches might > > your suggest for this scenario? > > > > Happy to explain it better if you want J > > > > > > > > Darren > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Arthur > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Fri May 30 13:31:59 2014 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 11:31:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2003: Deploying Stored Procs to SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <00b301cf7583$705073c0$50f15b40$@activebilling.com.au> <019401cf7bad$7d402c30$77c08490$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: Darren, another way using a bat file: Another approach would be to create a .BAT file with the following command: for %%G in (*.sql) do sqlcmd /S servername /d databaseName -E -i"%%G" pause Place this .BAT file in the directory from which you want the .SQL files to be executed, double click the .BAT file and you are done! Source: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2583517/run-all-sql-files-in-a-directory On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:24 AM, David McAfee wrote: > Darren, if you can copy the .sql files to the various servers, you might > be able to create a sproc on each of the servers that takes input > parameters: > > EXEC xp_cmdshell 'sqlcmd -S ' + @YourServerName + ' -d ' + @YourDataBaseName > + ' -i ' + @YourFilePathAndName > > > Modify your Passthrough QueryDef then call the sproc from Access/VBA in > each of the servers > > > On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Darren > wrote: > >> Hi Arthur, >> Thanks for your comments. We won't be using 3rd party tools for this. >> If it can be, it will need to be written in Access/VBA. >> And comparing the dBs is not an issue, we just want to push already tested >> Stored Procedures to an editable list of dBs. >> Many thanks again for your reply. >> >> Anyone else with thoughts on the matter? >> >> Many thanks in adavance >> Darren >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller >> Sent: Thursday, 22 May 2014 7:50 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2003: Deploying Stored Procs to SQL Server >> >> Darren, >> >> I confess that I've never tried to "roll my own" for a task like this. >> There are several tools available from various vendors for just this sort >> of >> task. I'm a big fan of Red Gate's toolbelt, which includes a pair of >> related >> tools: SQL Compare and SQL Data Compare. Both take a source and target >> database and compare the two, optionally updating the target to match the >> source. The Red Gate stuff is available in a trial version. >> Another vendor offering similar tools is Apex, and there are others as >> well. >> >> Arthur >> >> >> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 2:02 AM, Darren >> wrote: >> >> > Hi Team >> > >> > A colleague asked if I know a way to deploy a 'saved' StoredProcedure, >> > in an SQL file, to many SQL Server dbs (About 20 dBs) >> > >> > The MS command line tool for doing this (I am told) strips the nice >> > formatting & indents etc. and makes the resulting deployed SPROC had >> > to read. >> > >> > So I said Yep, I can do that in Access. >> > >> > So, via code, I thought I'd read in the contents of the SQL File as I >> > would a stream from a text file. >> > >> > Then I would loop through a predefined list of the destination >> > Databases and their Servers and would create a huge Pass-through >> > Update Query with a Use DB at the beginning of each desired insert >> > then simply run the Pass-through query from Access. >> > >> > >> > >> > (FYI - I do this with something much simpler - IE build and deploy >> > SPROCS from VBA. Except I don't read in the SQL first - It's hardcoded >> > in my Access App for my little job) >> > >> > >> > >> > Anyway I run into issues almost straight away with "GO" statements by >> > having them in the Pass-through Update Query - Because for one reason >> > or another these cause the running of the Pass-through update to fail. >> > >> > So what I could do is open a query in Query Analyser to each of the >> > destination dBs and have him run 15-20 queries. >> > >> > Or I can put my huge big query into one Query window and let him run >> > the one big query. >> > >> > >> > >> > What do you guys do for this kind of thing and what approaches might >> > your suggest for this scenario? >> > >> > Happy to explain it better if you want J >> > >> > >> > >> > Darren >> > >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Arthur >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >