From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 08:34:19 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 09:34:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Let's discuss lookup tables a bit more Message-ID: After our discussion on normalization I've simplified the table structure in the animal tracking database quite a bit. I especially appreciated the idea that all animals have birth parents -- they just won't always be known. I've expanded that to cover institutions too -- all animals come from an institution, just sometimes, it's our own (ie, they're born here). But that brings me to an interesting possibility regarding the institution table. There won't be very many because we work with just a few in our region. I'm leaning toward thinking of the institution table as a lookup table. At least, I can use it that way, even if, traditionally, it wouldn't be. However, they'll need the ability to add institutions on the fly, but that's no big deal. Any warnings? Thanks! Susan H. From jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Sep 2 09:08:42 2014 From: jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk (James Button) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 15:08:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Let's discuss lookup tables a bit more In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Susan, Great that you are getting on well with the project: I think most of the responders are keen that you should avoid the pitfalls they encountered in their early? Days. ------------------------------- No particular problem that I can (currently) think of - Just the regular considerations for selection lists: Easy to select the wrong one if there are multiple entries that start with the same words Manipulation of the entries should be by you doing maintenance, but by others using simple forms that do not include change or delete. Include 'reports' that can be run (selected) by the user when they have used the update form. Also consider that changing the lookup value changes all the associated entries So when "Indiana zoo" becomes "Indiana Zoo Inc." Do you want to change all the entries - considering that the new name may also include different qualities, authorities etc. - such as being able to handle restricted species It may be a good idea to include a 'no longer selectable' marker that will exclude the marked entries from the selection list in appropriate forms. That can be used to stop the use of 'errors' in the additions done by others, who can email? you to have the erroneous ones deleted - after you check they have not been used. --------------------------------------------- Also consider - maintenance - Include 'reports' that can be run (selected) by the user when they have used the update form. If you have to reconstruct the database it will help if you have flat files of the content of various tables - or maybe export them to Excel sheets, or have Excel load a set of worksheets/tables with the data from the database. (From within Excel create .dqy files to SQL the data from the external (database) data store.) Once you take over a data management process, you are assumed to be the one responsible for it, and the data in it! JimB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 2:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Let's discuss lookup tables a bit more After our discussion on normalization I've simplified the table structure in the animal tracking database quite a bit. I especially appreciated the idea that all animals have birth parents -- they just won't always be known. I've expanded that to cover institutions too -- all animals come from an institution, just sometimes, it's our own (ie, they're born here). But that brings me to an interesting possibility regarding the institution table. There won't be very many because we work with just a few in our region. I'm leaning toward thinking of the institution table as a lookup table. At least, I can use it that way, even if, traditionally, it wouldn't be. However, they'll need the ability to add institutions on the fly, but that's no big deal. Any warnings? Thanks! Susan H. -- From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Sep 2 09:54:49 2014 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 07:54:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Let's discuss lookup tables a bit more In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19DF94E204A14DEEBCFD996263244DE4@HAL9007> I'd do it but you will need either a form where they can maintain the institutions table or a Not In List event for the box where they pick the institution. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 6:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Let's discuss lookup tables a bit more After our discussion on normalization I've simplified the table structure in the animal tracking database quite a bit. I especially appreciated the idea that all animals have birth parents -- they just won't always be known. I've expanded that to cover institutions too -- all animals come from an institution, just sometimes, it's our own (ie, they're born here). But that brings me to an interesting possibility regarding the institution table. There won't be very many because we work with just a few in our region. I'm leaning toward thinking of the institution table as a lookup table. At least, I can use it that way, even if, traditionally, it wouldn't be. However, they'll need the ability to add institutions on the fly, but that's no big deal. Any warnings? Thanks! Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 10:32:00 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 11:32:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Let's discuss lookup tables a bit more In-Reply-To: <19DF94E204A14DEEBCFD996263244DE4@HAL9007> References: <19DF94E204A14DEEBCFD996263244DE4@HAL9007> Message-ID: Yeah, Rocky -- that's no problem at all. I'm redoing the basic queries this morning and I decided to use the built-in lookups at the table level for the lookup fields. I know, I know.... but since I'm taking the easy route, seems a no-brainer to me. I tried to get it to take a self join, but didn't work -- so I guess it can't accommodate that one. I'm going to go do a bit of research just to make sure. Susan H. On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I'd do it but you will need either a form where they can maintain the > institutions table or a Not In List event for the box where they pick the > institution. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 6:34 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Let's discuss lookup tables a bit more > > After our discussion on normalization I've simplified the table structure > in > the animal tracking database quite a bit. I especially appreciated the idea > that all animals have birth parents -- they just won't always be known. > I've > expanded that to cover institutions too -- all animals come from an > institution, just sometimes, it's our own (ie, they're born here). > > But that brings me to an interesting possibility regarding the institution > table. There won't be very many because we work with just a few in our > region. I'm leaning toward thinking of the institution table as a lookup > table. At least, I can use it that way, even if, traditionally, it wouldn't > be. However, they'll need the ability to add institutions on the fly, but > that's no big deal. > > Any warnings? > > Thanks! > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 10:46:49 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 11:46:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Let's discuss lookup tables a bit more Message-ID: It does work! :) I just made a silly mistake in the column widths setting. Susan H. > I tried to get it to take a self join, but didn't work -- so I guess it > can't accommodate that one. I'm going to go do a bit of research just to > make sure. > > Susan H. > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > >> I'd do it but you will need either a form where they can maintain the >> institutions table or a Not In List event for the box where they pick the >> institution. >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins >> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 6:34 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Let's discuss lookup tables a bit more >> >> After our discussion on normalization I've simplified the table structure >> in >> the animal tracking database quite a bit. I especially appreciated the >> idea >> that all animals have birth parents -- they just won't always be known. >> I've >> expanded that to cover institutions too -- all animals come from an >> institution, just sometimes, it's our own (ie, they're born here). >> >> But that brings me to an interesting possibility regarding the institution >> table. There won't be very many because we work with just a few in our >> region. I'm leaning toward thinking of the institution table as a lookup >> table. At least, I can use it that way, even if, traditionally, it >> wouldn't >> be. However, they'll need the ability to add institutions on the fly, but >> that's no big deal. >> >> Any warnings? >> >> Thanks! >> Susan H. >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 12:06:02 2014 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:06:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Query Help In-Reply-To: <04F64020-4C27-40E8-8B02-E852F989F429@aol.com> References: <04F64020-4C27-40E8-8B02-E852F989F429@aol.com> Message-ID: Dean, I'm not sure if somebody has already answered this or not. I just found it in my Gmail spam folder. What you can do is save the query without tblClients. Create a new query which joins this new, saved query to tbleProjects and tblClients. You could do it all with a sub query, but I think it will read a little cleaner as a separate query. HTH David On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Dean Davids wrote: > I am sure this is purely my ignorance for having not cracked open an > Access db in some years. What seemed to be a simple query in my head has me > chasing my tail. > > From qbd Grid: > SELECT tbleProjects.ProjectID, tbleProjects.ProjectName, > Max(tblContracts.ContractAmount) AS MaxOfContractAmount, > tblClients.CompanyName > FROM tbleProjects INNER JOIN (tblClients RIGHT JOIN tblContracts ON > tblClients.ClientID = tblContracts.ContractClientID) ON > tbleProjects.ProjectID = tblContracts.CotractProjectID > GROUP BY tbleProjects.ProjectID, tbleProjects.ProjectName, > tblClients.CompanyName > ORDER BY tbleProjects.ProjectName; > > tbleProjects is one to many tblContracts. > tblClients is one to many tblContracts. > I am trying to get the client of the highest value contract associated as > the main client of the project in a query. > > With the above statement, I get duplicates for each project that has > multiple contracts. > If I leave out tblClients, I get no dupes and I get the max contract > amount, which I need, but I also need the Client. Alternatively I'd take > the PK from the max contract which I can then use to retrieve the client. > > Am I going about this wrong? > > Thank in advance for suggestions, > > Dean S. Davids > Fort Lauderdale, FL > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 14:29:56 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 15:29:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Let's discuss lookup tables a bit more In-Reply-To: <19DF94E204A14DEEBCFD996263244DE4@HAL9007> References: <19DF94E204A14DEEBCFD996263244DE4@HAL9007> Message-ID: Rocky, I redesigned my main table a bit -- the one storing animal attributes and created several lookup fields at the table level. Then, I let Access generate the form -- perfect. While I do understand the arguments against using all of the great user tools, I sure don't mind breaking all those old rules. :) I will have the main functionality ready soon and then we can start adding all the bells and whistles that she wants. I am going to be a hero. :) Susan H. On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I'd do it but you will need either a form where they can maintain the > institutions table or a Not In List event for the box where they pick the > institution. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 6:34 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Let's discuss lookup tables a bit more > > After our discussion on normalization I've simplified the table structure > in > the animal tracking database quite a bit. I especially appreciated the idea > that all animals have birth parents -- they just won't always be known. > I've > expanded that to cover institutions too -- all animals come from an > institution, just sometimes, it's our own (ie, they're born here). > > But that brings me to an interesting possibility regarding the institution > table. There won't be very many because we work with just a few in our > region. I'm leaning toward thinking of the institution table as a lookup > table. At least, I can use it that way, even if, traditionally, it wouldn't > be. However, they'll need the ability to add institutions on the fly, but > that's no big deal. > > Any warnings? > > Thanks! > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Sep 2 16:17:26 2014 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 14:17:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Let's discuss lookup tables a bit more In-Reply-To: References: <19DF94E204A14DEEBCFD996263244DE4@HAL9007> Message-ID: <8DA7A8E984B14EBCBA52F1251EE3C1CD@HAL9007> Nice! You know I always found making Access databases to be a lot of fun. Still do. And it pays well into the bargain. I'm doing one now that I took just for those reasons. Also the apps tend to be interesting. This one is for a company that works with genetics. As the Access market is shrinking it's getting harder to get the jobs but you've got such credibility in your resume I'll bet people would hire you just to have 'the expert' on their team. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 12:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Let's discuss lookup tables a bit more Rocky, I redesigned my main table a bit -- the one storing animal attributes and created several lookup fields at the table level. Then, I let Access generate the form -- perfect. While I do understand the arguments against using all of the great user tools, I sure don't mind breaking all those old rules. :) I will have the main functionality ready soon and then we can start adding all the bells and whistles that she wants. I am going to be a hero. :) Susan H. On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I'd do it but you will need either a form where they can maintain the > institutions table or a Not In List event for the box where they pick > the institution. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan > Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 6:34 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Let's discuss lookup tables a bit more > > After our discussion on normalization I've simplified the table > structure in the animal tracking database quite a bit. I especially > appreciated the idea that all animals have birth parents -- they just > won't always be known. > I've > expanded that to cover institutions too -- all animals come from an > institution, just sometimes, it's our own (ie, they're born here). > > But that brings me to an interesting possibility regarding the > institution table. There won't be very many because we work with just > a few in our region. I'm leaning toward thinking of the institution > table as a lookup table. At least, I can use it that way, even if, > traditionally, it wouldn't be. However, they'll need the ability to > add institutions on the fly, but that's no big deal. > > Any warnings? > > Thanks! > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 20:26:56 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 21:26:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Let's discuss lookup tables a bit more Message-ID: Thank you Rocky, but I don't want to work that hard. But, I am glad to have had a chance to revisit Access in this unconventional way. :) Susan H. > As the Access market is shrinking it's getting harder to get the jobs but > you've got such credibility in your resume I'll bet people would hire you > just to have 'the expert' on their team. > > From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 20:59:34 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 21:59:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Delete Query with a join In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David: get anywhere? On Aug 28, 2014 10:40 PM, "Bill Benson" wrote: > Try > > DELETE [rpt_DMHClaim 14].* > FROM [rpt_DMHClaim 14] > WHERE Exists > (SELECT 1 > FROM [qry 01a rpt_DMHClaim 14 Dupes to be > deleted] > WHERE [qry 01a rpt_DMHClaim 14 Dupes to be > deleted].ClaimNumber = > [rpt_DMHClaim 14].ClaimNumber > AND > [qry 01a rpt_DMHClaim 14 Dupes to be > deleted].MaxOfEOB_ID = > [rpt_DMHClaim 14].EOB_ID) > > Action queries don't much like joins ad even distinctrow can lead to > duplicates no? Not sure really. > > Got that here: > > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5585732/how-to-delete-in-ms-access-when-using-joins > From dnod at aol.com Thu Sep 4 06:51:08 2014 From: dnod at aol.com (Dean Davids) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 07:51:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Query Help In-Reply-To: References: <04F64020-4C27-40E8-8B02-E852F989F429@aol.com> Message-ID: <1523A45E-2171-4726-B56B-C97EAA0D7621@aol.com> David, I appreciate your suggestion. I did do something similar but I have not confirmed, as yet, that it is consistently correct. I made a separate query with just the tblContracts, ordered by contract amount descending. Then I group by the project FK and pull only the first contract of each group. As you say, I use this query which should have only the largest contract from each project in my main query. It seems to work properly but I have a nagging memory of the "First" function sometimes not giving the expected results, especially in subquery situations. Difficult to confirm as it is many records and not all of them have multiple contracts. So far, what I see appears accurate. Thank you for your input. Dean Davids Fort Lauderdale, FL On Sep 2, 2014, at 1:06 PM, David McAfee wrote: > Dean, I'm not sure if somebody has already answered this or not. > > I just found it in my Gmail spam folder. > > What you can do is save the query without tblClients. > > Create a new query which joins this new, saved query to tbleProjects and > tblClients. > > You could do it all with a sub query, but I think it will read a little > cleaner as a separate query. > > HTH > David > > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Dean Davids wrote: > >> I am sure this is purely my ignorance for having not cracked open an >> Access db in some years. What seemed to be a simple query in my head has me >> chasing my tail. >> >> From qbd Grid: >> SELECT tbleProjects.ProjectID, tbleProjects.ProjectName, >> Max(tblContracts.ContractAmount) AS MaxOfContractAmount, >> tblClients.CompanyName >> FROM tbleProjects INNER JOIN (tblClients RIGHT JOIN tblContracts ON >> tblClients.ClientID = tblContracts.ContractClientID) ON >> tbleProjects.ProjectID = tblContracts.CotractProjectID >> GROUP BY tbleProjects.ProjectID, tbleProjects.ProjectName, >> tblClients.CompanyName >> ORDER BY tbleProjects.ProjectName; >> >> tbleProjects is one to many tblContracts. >> tblClients is one to many tblContracts. >> I am trying to get the client of the highest value contract associated as >> the main client of the project in a query. >> >> With the above statement, I get duplicates for each project that has >> multiple contracts. >> If I leave out tblClients, I get no dupes and I get the max contract >> amount, which I need, but I also need the Client. Alternatively I'd take >> the PK from the max contract which I can then use to retrieve the client. >> >> Am I going about this wrong? >> >> Thank in advance for suggestions, >> >> Dean S. Davids >> Fort Lauderdale, FL >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Fri Sep 5 22:50:41 2014 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 15:50:41 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Exporting a stored procedure to csv file Message-ID: <002501cfc985$bb3108e0$31931aa0$@dalyn.co.nz> Hi listers, Having a brain dead moment. How do I export a stored procedure with two parameters from Access using vba into a csv file? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand From jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Sep 6 06:39:24 2014 From: jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk (James Button) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 12:39:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Exporting a stored procedure to csv file In-Reply-To: <002501cfc985$bb3108e0$31931aa0$@dalyn.co.nz> References: <002501cfc985$bb3108e0$31931aa0$@dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: I's say you shouldn't Data goes to csv as the values (usually) are of varying length in different rows and need to be separated, hence Comma separated values A procedure would (I expect) to be a script of 1 or more text lines where the words and values in the lines of the script need to be kept as part of the single entity that is the code line. So - then we get to your 2 parameters - ??? JimB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2014 4:51 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Exporting a stored procedure to csv file Hi listers, Having a brain dead moment. How do I export a stored procedure with two parameters from Access using vba into a csv file? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Sat Sep 6 13:47:06 2014 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 06:47:06 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Exporting a stored procedure to csv file In-Reply-To: References: <002501cfc985$bb3108e0$31931aa0$@dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <000f01cfca02$f6beabb0$e43c0310$@dalyn.co.nz> Sorry about the confusion. It is the results of a stored procedure that I want to export as a csv file. The stored procedure returns a set of rows, the 2 parameters are used to filter what rows are included. The previous way I have done this is to use the stored procedure to fill in a table and then export the table. Just wondering if there is an easier way. With an adp there was a simple command but this doesn't seem to work with an accdb: DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputStoredProcedure, "EXEC dbo.spsfrFDClaimScheduleCreate " & Me!cboFilter, acFormatTXT, strFullName David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of James Button Sent: Saturday, 6 September 2014 11:39 p.m. To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Exporting a stored procedure to csv file I's say you shouldn't Data goes to csv as the values (usually) are of varying length in different rows and need to be separated, hence Comma separated values A procedure would (I expect) to be a script of 1 or more text lines where the words and values in the lines of the script need to be kept as part of the single entity that is the code line. So - then we get to your 2 parameters - ??? JimB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2014 4:51 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Exporting a stored procedure to csv file Hi listers, Having a brain dead moment. How do I export a stored procedure with two parameters from Access using vba into a csv file? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Tue Sep 9 16:57:09 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 21:57:09 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Using schtasks.exe to Initiate Access 2007 Report Job on a Server (from a PC) ---- Update - PROBLEM SOLVED !!! In-Reply-To: References: <002401cfbc13$15742f10$405c8d30$@net> <006701cfbc1a$d12a0fc0$737e2f40$@gmail.com> <9c6952961b884b218fb07378f33790db@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: All, Back in June, I posted an entry about problems that I was having when trying to use schtasks to initiate an Access "Batch Report Job" on a server. We were in the process of upgrading our old server from Windows Server 2003 to Windows Server 2012. The script on my PC worked nicely when using the old server, but I could not get it to work when trying to initiate jobs on the new server. I did a lot of testing and research, but I simply could not get things to work. FINALLY, today I discovered the problem. My PC is still running XP (it is on the short list for an upgrade to Win-7). I tried the schtasks test on another PC that has Win-7 and it worked! I am all smiles. I thought that I would pass this info on in case others run into this issue. Brad ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > All, > > For the past couple years, I have used schtasks.exe to initiate an > Access 2007 Report Job that runs on a server (Windows Server 2003) from a PC. > > We are now in the process of upgrading this old server to a new box > which runs Windows Server 2012 R2. > > Here is the command (on the PC) that used to work with the OldServer > > schtasks.exe /S OLDServer /Run /TN Task1 > > I have tried numerous modifications, but cannot get this to work with > Windows Server 2012. > > Does anyone have an example of using schtasks to fire up a job on > Windows Server 2012? > > Thanks, > Brad ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 23:13:13 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 00:13:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Using schtasks.exe to Initiate Access 2007 Report Job on a Server (from a PC) ---- Update - PROBLEM SOLVED !!! In-Reply-To: References: <002401cfbc13$15742f10$405c8d30$@net> <006701cfbc1a$d12a0fc0$737e2f40$@gmail.com> <9c6952961b884b218fb07378f33790db@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <001301cfccad$8af56420$a0e02c60$@gmail.com> Do you really think it is a win-7 issue, or that some kind of policy or services setting is different on that machine's install than your own XP system? Guess it would be hard to know. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 5:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using schtasks.exe to Initiate Access 2007 Report Job on a Server (from a PC) ---- Update - PROBLEM SOLVED !!! All, Back in June, I posted an entry about problems that I was having when trying to use schtasks to initiate an Access "Batch Report Job" on a server. We were in the process of upgrading our old server from Windows Server 2003 to Windows Server 2012. The script on my PC worked nicely when using the old server, but I could not get it to work when trying to initiate jobs on the new server. I did a lot of testing and research, but I simply could not get things to work. FINALLY, today I discovered the problem. My PC is still running XP (it is on the short list for an upgrade to Win-7). I tried the schtasks test on another PC that has Win-7 and it worked! I am all smiles. I thought that I would pass this info on in case others run into this issue. Brad ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > All, > > For the past couple years, I have used schtasks.exe to initiate an > Access 2007 Report Job that runs on a server (Windows Server 2003) from a PC. > > We are now in the process of upgrading this old server to a new box > which runs Windows Server 2012 R2. > > Here is the command (on the PC) that used to work with the OldServer > > schtasks.exe /S OLDServer /Run /TN Task1 > > I have tried numerous modifications, but cannot get this to work with > Windows Server 2012. > > Does anyone have an example of using schtasks to fire up a job on > Windows Server 2012? > > Thanks, > Brad ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From actebs at actebs.com.au Wed Sep 10 01:11:26 2014 From: actebs at actebs.com.au (ACTEBS) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 16:11:26 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Message-ID: <000001cfccbe$0de1fb40$29a5f1c0$@actebs.com.au> Hi Everyone, Got a complex form that we're turning into a DB and having difficulty coming up with a good table structure to suit the form and the way the data is collected and input. They want the Access DB to mirror the form. You can see the form here: http://download.actebs.com.au/FormDoc.jpg As you can see by the example image above the sample are marked as A, B, C, and D, but sometimes they display it vertically and other horizontally, which is confusing the hell out of me. Any idea on how best to design the table structure so the data is easy to work with down the track? Any ideas most welcome. Thanks in advance. Vlado From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Sep 10 01:21:11 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:21:11 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas In-Reply-To: <000001cfccbe$0de1fb40$29a5f1c0$@actebs.com.au> References: <000001cfccbe$0de1fb40$29a5f1c0$@actebs.com.au> Message-ID: Hi Vlado, By the "Want the DB to mirror the form" requirement, I assume you mean for the data entry requirement. How you set up the underlying table structure should be very different. Is that your understanding as well? Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ACTEBS Sent: Wednesday, 10 September 2014 4:11 PM To: access group Subject: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Hi Everyone, Got a complex form that we're turning into a DB and having difficulty coming up with a good table structure to suit the form and the way the data is collected and input. They want the Access DB to mirror the form. You can see the form here: http://download.actebs.com.au/FormDoc.jpg As you can see by the example image above the sample are marked as A, B, C, and D, but sometimes they display it vertically and other horizontally, which is confusing the hell out of me. Any idea on how best to design the table structure so the data is easy to work with down the track? Any ideas most welcome. Thanks in advance. Vlado -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From actebs at actebs.com.au Wed Sep 10 01:27:04 2014 From: actebs at actebs.com.au (ACTEBS) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 16:27:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas In-Reply-To: References: <000001cfccbe$0de1fb40$29a5f1c0$@actebs.com.au> Message-ID: <000501cfccc0$3cf01d70$b6d05850$@actebs.com.au> Hi Darryl, Yes, sorry I should have made that clearer. I'm basically after ideas for the table structure. Forget about the user interface, I can manipulate it to suit. I just can't come up with an elegant solution for the tables. Thanks Vlado -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, 10 September 2014 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Hi Vlado, By the "Want the DB to mirror the form" requirement, I assume you mean for the data entry requirement. How you set up the underlying table structure should be very different. Is that your understanding as well? Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ACTEBS Sent: Wednesday, 10 September 2014 4:11 PM To: access group Subject: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Hi Everyone, Got a complex form that we're turning into a DB and having difficulty coming up with a good table structure to suit the form and the way the data is collected and input. They want the Access DB to mirror the form. You can see the form here: http://download.actebs.com.au/FormDoc.jpg As you can see by the example image above the sample are marked as A, B, C, and D, but sometimes they display it vertically and other horizontally, which is confusing the hell out of me. Any idea on how best to design the table structure so the data is easy to work with down the track? Any ideas most welcome. Thanks in advance. Vlado -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Sep 10 02:38:36 2014 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 07:38:36 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Message-ID: Hi Vlado I would use a parent table and four child tables, one for each section. Further, I would suggest a tabbed form for data entry; the existing form is not suitable for screen usage. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af ACTEBS Sendt: 10. september 2014 08:27 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Hi Darryl, Yes, sorry I should have made that clearer. I'm basically after ideas for the table structure. Forget about the user interface, I can manipulate it to suit. I just can't come up with an elegant solution for the tables. Thanks Vlado -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, 10 September 2014 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Hi Vlado, By the "Want the DB to mirror the form" requirement, I assume you mean for the data entry requirement. How you set up the underlying table structure should be very different. Is that your understanding as well? Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ACTEBS Sent: Wednesday, 10 September 2014 4:11 PM To: access group Subject: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Hi Everyone, Got a complex form that we're turning into a DB and having difficulty coming up with a good table structure to suit the form and the way the data is collected and input. They want the Access DB to mirror the form. You can see the form here: http://download.actebs.com.au/FormDoc.jpg As you can see by the example image above the sample are marked as A, B, C, and D, but sometimes they display it vertically and other horizontally, which is confusing the hell out of me. Any idea on how best to design the table structure so the data is easy to work with down the track? Any ideas most welcome. Thanks in advance. Vlado From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Sep 10 08:52:45 2014 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:52:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas In-Reply-To: <000501cfccc0$3cf01d70$b6d05850$@actebs.com.au> References: <000001cfccbe$0de1fb40$29a5f1c0$@actebs.com.au> <000501cfccc0$3cf01d70$b6d05850$@actebs.com.au> Message-ID: <2ED92CFE5B5D434FBFF431E9182A6C7D@HAL9007> Vlado: Is the number of samples always 4 - A, B, C, D. Or could there be three or six, or even more? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ACTEBS Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 11:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Hi Darryl, Yes, sorry I should have made that clearer. I'm basically after ideas for the table structure. Forget about the user interface, I can manipulate it to suit. I just can't come up with an elegant solution for the tables. Thanks Vlado -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, 10 September 2014 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Hi Vlado, By the "Want the DB to mirror the form" requirement, I assume you mean for the data entry requirement. How you set up the underlying table structure should be very different. Is that your understanding as well? Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ACTEBS Sent: Wednesday, 10 September 2014 4:11 PM To: access group Subject: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Hi Everyone, Got a complex form that we're turning into a DB and having difficulty coming up with a good table structure to suit the form and the way the data is collected and input. They want the Access DB to mirror the form. You can see the form here: http://download.actebs.com.au/FormDoc.jpg As you can see by the example image above the sample are marked as A, B, C, and D, but sometimes they display it vertically and other horizontally, which is confusing the hell out of me. Any idea on how best to design the table structure so the data is easy to work with down the track? Any ideas most welcome. Thanks in advance. Vlado -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Wed Sep 10 09:10:45 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 14:10:45 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Using schtasks.exe to Initiate Access 2007 Report Job on a Server (from a PC) ---- Update - PROBLEM SOLVED !!! In-Reply-To: <001301cfccad$8af56420$a0e02c60$@gmail.com> References: <002401cfbc13$15742f10$405c8d30$@net> <006701cfbc1a$d12a0fc0$737e2f40$@gmail.com> <9c6952961b884b218fb07378f33790db@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <001301cfccad$8af56420$a0e02c60$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Bill, Thanks for your reply. I suppose it could be some kind of policy or services setting. This is not a realm that I have worked with much. In summary, here is what I saw... Initiating Access Batch Report job (via schtasks) works fine from XP against Windows 2003 Server. Initiating Access Batch Report job (via schtasks) does NOT work from XP against Windows 2012 Server. Initiating Access Batch Report job (via schtasks) works fine from Win-7 against Windows 2012 Server. My conclusion from this is that there is a difference between XP and Win-7 when using schtasks to initiate jobs on a server Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 11:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using schtasks.exe to Initiate Access 2007 Report Job on a Server (from a PC) ---- Update - PROBLEM SOLVED !!! Do you really think it is a win-7 issue, or that some kind of policy or services setting is different on that machine's install than your own XP system? Guess it would be hard to know. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 5:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using schtasks.exe to Initiate Access 2007 Report Job on a Server (from a PC) ---- Update - PROBLEM SOLVED !!! All, Back in June, I posted an entry about problems that I was having when trying to use schtasks to initiate an Access "Batch Report Job" on a server. We were in the process of upgrading our old server from Windows Server 2003 to Windows Server 2012. The script on my PC worked nicely when using the old server, but I could not get it to work when trying to initiate jobs on the new server. I did a lot of testing and research, but I simply could not get things to work. FINALLY, today I discovered the problem. My PC is still running XP (it is on the short list for an upgrade to Win-7). I tried the schtasks test on another PC that has Win-7 and it worked! I am all smiles. I thought that I would pass this info on in case others run into this issue. Brad ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > All, > > For the past couple years, I have used schtasks.exe to initiate an > Access 2007 Report Job that runs on a server (Windows Server 2003) > from a PC. > > We are now in the process of upgrading this old server to a new box > which runs Windows Server 2012 R2. > > Here is the command (on the PC) that used to work with the OldServer > > schtasks.exe /S OLDServer /Run /TN Task1 > > I have tried numerous modifications, but cannot get this to work with > Windows Server 2012. > > Does anyone have an example of using schtasks to fire up a job on > Windows Server 2012? > > Thanks, > Brad ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 10:45:57 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 11:45:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items Message-ID: Setup -- I'm using a combo box to offer current species so the user can just select one instead of re-entering. If the species isn't available yet, there's a command button the user can click to enter the new species. The combo box is populated by a species lookup table. Using the combo box's Click event, I tried to requery the list as follows: Private Sub SpeciesIDFK_Click() 'Repopulate species combo after adding new species. Me.Requery End Sub The popup form is entering the new species -- I've checked the underlying table and it's there. But, when I return to the main form and click the comb box's dropdown arrow to review the list again, the new species is not in the list. I dropped in a Debug.Print after the Requery method to at least let me know the event is firing and apparently it isn't. I went looking for a dropdown event and while there's lots about what it is, there is not a dropdown event in the Events dropdown in the VBE for the combo box control in question. Any help? Susan H. From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 10:59:56 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 11:59:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Susan, call the main forms combos re query right after popular adds the new species. Optionally (depends on your workflow) u can also set the list index (perhaps value for a cbo) to the just added item as well. I usually loop forms to make sure that main form is still open, since sometimes species are being added as standalone. This is one of the things I like about access, that a pop up still can get a handle on the previous form. You can even loop all forms looking for all controls that use species in their rowsource, and requery them all at the same time (possibly setting to their previous values after re query if that happens to deselect user selections ... I can't remember if requery does so). Probably wouldn't hurt to prompt the user after the popup, on close, if more than one species were added or change, versus only 1, before changing control values. If only 1, they probably were adding as a part of the other forms workflow. If they added 2 or more, you wouldn't know for sure they wanted to alter the item showing in the other control, you only know they wanted to increase the population. On Sep 10, 2014 11:49 AM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > Setup -- I'm using a combo box to offer current species so the user can > just select one instead of re-entering. If the species isn't available yet, > there's a command button the user can click to enter the new species. > > The combo box is populated by a species lookup table. > > Using the combo box's Click event, I tried to requery the list as follows: > > Private Sub SpeciesIDFK_Click() > 'Repopulate species combo after adding new species. > Me.Requery > End Sub > > The popup form is entering the new species -- I've checked the underlying > table and it's there. But, when I return to the main form and click the > comb box's dropdown arrow to review the list again, the new species is not > in the list. > > I dropped in a Debug.Print after the Requery method to at least let me know > the event is firing and apparently it isn't. > > I went looking for a dropdown event and while there's lots about what it > is, there is not a dropdown event in the Events dropdown in the VBE for the > combo box control in question. > > Any help? > > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 11:01:03 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 12:01:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Auto correct changed popup to popular. On Sep 10, 2014 11:59 AM, "Bill Benson" wrote: > Susan, call the main forms combos re query right after popular adds the > new species. Optionally (depends on your workflow) u can also set the list > index (perhaps value for a cbo) to the just added item as well. I usually > loop forms to make sure that main form is still open, since sometimes > species are being added as standalone. > > This is one of the things I like about access, that a pop up still can get > a handle on the previous form. > > You can even loop all forms looking for all controls that use species in > their rowsource, and requery them all at the same time (possibly setting to > their previous values after re query if that happens to deselect user > selections ... I can't remember if requery does so). Probably wouldn't hurt > to prompt the user after the popup, on close, if more than one species were > added or change, versus only 1, before changing control values. If only 1, > they probably were adding as a part of the other forms workflow. If they > added 2 or more, you wouldn't know for sure they wanted to alter the item > showing in the other control, you only know they wanted to increase the > population. > On Sep 10, 2014 11:49 AM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > >> Setup -- I'm using a combo box to offer current species so the user can >> just select one instead of re-entering. If the species isn't available >> yet, >> there's a command button the user can click to enter the new species. >> >> The combo box is populated by a species lookup table. >> >> Using the combo box's Click event, I tried to requery the list as follows: >> >> Private Sub SpeciesIDFK_Click() >> 'Repopulate species combo after adding new species. >> Me.Requery >> End Sub >> >> The popup form is entering the new species -- I've checked the underlying >> table and it's there. But, when I return to the main form and click the >> comb box's dropdown arrow to review the list again, the new species is not >> in the list. >> >> I dropped in a Debug.Print after the Requery method to at least let me >> know >> the event is firing and apparently it isn't. >> >> I went looking for a dropdown event and while there's lots about what it >> is, there is not a dropdown event in the Events dropdown in the VBE for >> the >> combo box control in question. >> >> Any help? >> >> Susan H. >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 12:40:48 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:40:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items Message-ID: > Susan, call the main forms combos re query right after popular adds the > new species. ==========I'm not sure what you meant by this. > Optionally (depends on your workflow) u can also set the list > index (perhaps value for a cbo) to the just added item as well. I usually > loop forms to make sure that main form is still open, since sometimes > species are being added as standalone. > ==========This is a great idea because the user would only add a new species at this point if that species defined the new animals s/he's adding. A nice touch. I should've thought of it myself. > > This is one of the things I like about access, that a pop up still can get > a handle on the previous form. > > You can even loop all forms looking for all controls that use species in > their rowsource, and requery them all at the same time (possibly setting to > their previous values after re query if that happens to deselect user > selections ... ==========I hadn't considered requerying the main form from the popup -- good thought too. > I can't remember if requery does so). Probably wouldn't hurt > to prompt the user after the popup, on close, if more than one species were > added or change, versus only 1, before changing control values. If only 1, > they probably were adding as a part of the other forms workflow. If they > added 2 or more, you wouldn't know for sure they wanted to alter the item > showing in the other control, you only know they wanted to increase the > population. > ==========it would only be one. Thanks! Susan H. From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 12:54:28 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:54:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Did u read next post? On Sep 10, 2014 1:49 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > > Susan, call the main forms combos re query right after popular adds the > > new species. > > > ==========I'm not sure what you meant by this. > > > > > Optionally (depends on your workflow) u can also set the list > > index (perhaps value for a cbo) to the just added item as well. I usually > > loop forms to make sure that main form is still open, since sometimes > > species are being added as standalone. > > > > ==========This is a great idea because the user would only add a new > species at this point if that species defined the new animals s/he's > adding. A nice touch. I should've thought of it myself. > > > > > This is one of the things I like about access, that a pop up still can > get > > a handle on the previous form. > > > > You can even loop all forms looking for all controls that use species in > > their rowsource, and requery them all at the same time (possibly setting > to > > their previous values after re query if that happens to deselect user > > selections ... > > > ==========I hadn't considered requerying the main form from the popup -- > good thought too. > > > > I can't remember if requery does so). Probably wouldn't hurt > > to prompt the user after the popup, on close, if more than one species > were > > added or change, versus only 1, before changing control values. If only > 1, > > they probably were adding as a part of the other forms workflow. If they > > added 2 or more, you wouldn't know for sure they wanted to alter the item > > showing in the other control, you only know they wanted to increase the > > population. > > > > ==========it would only be one. > > Thanks! > > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 13:30:16 2014 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 11:30:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Susan, You need to use the Not In List event to add the item to the table, then you can reset the rowsource of the combobox to get the updated list. Charlotte On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:45 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > Setup -- I'm using a combo box to offer current species so the user can > just select one instead of re-entering. If the species isn't available yet, > there's a command button the user can click to enter the new species. > > The combo box is populated by a species lookup table. > > Using the combo box's Click event, I tried to requery the list as follows: > > Private Sub SpeciesIDFK_Click() > 'Repopulate species combo after adding new species. > Me.Requery > End Sub > > The popup form is entering the new species -- I've checked the underlying > table and it's there. But, when I return to the main form and click the > comb box's dropdown arrow to review the list again, the new species is not > in the list. > > I dropped in a Debug.Print after the Requery method to at least let me know > the event is firing and apparently it isn't. > > I went looking for a dropdown event and while there's lots about what it > is, there is not a dropdown event in the Events dropdown in the VBE for the > combo box control in question. > > Any help? > > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 13:34:31 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 14:34:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items Message-ID: Yes, but I'm not sure what you're saying by "call the main form combos" -- I knew that popular was really popup. Susan H. Did u read next post? > On Sep 10, 2014 1:49 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > > > > Susan, call the main forms combos re query right after popular adds > the > > > new species. > > > > > > ==========I'm not sure what you meant by this. > > > From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 13:37:19 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 14:37:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items Message-ID: > > > > You need to use the Not In List event to add the item to the table, then > you can reset the rowsource of the combobox to get the updated list. > > Charlotte > ===========I had hoped to save the user the trouble of entering a species that didn't exist -- but you're right... I had forgotten that I could capture the entry and do it that way -- might make more sense that using a popup. Susan H. From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 13:38:25 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 14:38:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items Message-ID: Although, there are two fields -- species and common name -- I'll have to display the popup anyway. Susan H. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > >> >> You need to use the Not In List event to add the item to the table, then >> you can reset the rowsource of the combobox to get the updated list. >> >> Charlotte >> > > ===========I had hoped to save the user the trouble of entering a species > that didn't exist -- but you're right... I had forgotten that I could > capture the entry and do it that way -- might make more sense that using a > popup. > > Susan H. > > From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 13:41:35 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 14:41:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I disagree that just because something is not in list that the user necessarily wants to add a species. That is why Susan has commandbutton, and I am assuming she opens a popup with species related dimensions for adding one. An action that she may in fact cancel. On press of Submit or any control that confirms that species is now active, you can call the re query method of the predecessor form directly. On Sep 10, 2014 2:33 PM, "Charlotte Foust" wrote: > Susan, > > You need to use the Not In List event to add the item to the table, then > you can reset the rowsource of the combobox to get the updated list. > > Charlotte > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:45 AM, Susan Harkins > wrote: > > > Setup -- I'm using a combo box to offer current species so the user can > > just select one instead of re-entering. If the species isn't available > yet, > > there's a command button the user can click to enter the new species. > > > > The combo box is populated by a species lookup table. > > > > Using the combo box's Click event, I tried to requery the list as > follows: > > > > Private Sub SpeciesIDFK_Click() > > 'Repopulate species combo after adding new species. > > Me.Requery > > End Sub > > > > The popup form is entering the new species -- I've checked the underlying > > table and it's there. But, when I return to the main form and click the > > comb box's dropdown arrow to review the list again, the new species is > not > > in the list. > > > > I dropped in a Debug.Print after the Requery method to at least let me > know > > the event is firing and apparently it isn't. > > > > I went looking for a dropdown event and while there's lots about what it > > is, there is not a dropdown event in the Events dropdown in the VBE for > the > > combo box control in question. > > > > Any help? > > > > Susan H. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 13:44:04 2014 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 11:44:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas In-Reply-To: <000001cfccbe$0de1fb40$29a5f1c0$@actebs.com.au> References: <000001cfccbe$0de1fb40$29a5f1c0$@actebs.com.au> Message-ID: You need a table for samples with a field that allows you to determine the order. Then you might use a table for Fibers Morphology and another for Polarized Light Microscopy, each with the fields needed for the information that applies. Each of those tables would be child tables to the main Sample table, which would contain any other information collected for a sample. The Sample PK would be a FK in each of the child tables. That would allow you to present the information in a variety of layouts without straining yourself. This assumes a one-to-one relationship between the tables but could allow for the addition of multiple results if you added a unique key to each child table as PK and allowed duplicates of the parent key. If they wanted to add different kinds of results, you would just add another table. Charlotte On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 11:11 PM, ACTEBS wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > > > Got a complex form that we're turning into a DB and having difficulty > coming > up with a good table structure to suit the form and the way the data is > collected and input. > > > > They want the Access DB to mirror the form. You can see the form here: > > > > http://download.actebs.com.au/FormDoc.jpg > > > > As you can see by the example image above the sample are marked as A, B, C, > and D, but sometimes they display it vertically and other horizontally, > which is confusing the hell out of me. Any idea on how best to design the > table structure so the data is easy to work with down the track? > > > > Any ideas most welcome. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Vlado > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 13:44:32 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 14:44:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I thought you have 2 forms, one to choose species and another to add a species. Isn't your command button to add opening a pop up form? You wrote "The popup form is entering the new species -- If so then the one before that I was calling the main form. I assumed also that is the form that has the select species combo. You can request that from the popup. On Sep 10, 2014 2:37 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > Yes, but I'm not sure what you're saying by "call the main form combos" -- > I knew that popular was really popup. > > Susan H. > > Did u read next post? > > On Sep 10, 2014 1:49 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > > > > > > Susan, call the main forms combos re query right after popular adds > > the > > > > new species. > > > > > > > > > ==========I'm not sure what you meant by this. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 13:47:52 2014 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 11:47:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nothing wrong with doing it via popup. You would need a DoEvents call to allow it to process before you reset the rowsource of the combo or requery the parent form. Charlotte On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:38 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > Although, there are two fields -- species and common name -- I'll have to > display the popup anyway. > > Susan H. > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Susan Harkins > wrote: > > > > >> > >> You need to use the Not In List event to add the item to the table, then > >> you can reset the rowsource of the combobox to get the updated list. > >> > >> Charlotte > >> > > > > ===========I had hoped to save the user the trouble of entering a species > > that didn't exist -- but you're right... I had forgotten that I could > > capture the entry and do it that way -- might make more sense that using > a > > popup. > > > > Susan H. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 14:33:55 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 15:33:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items Message-ID: Right now, yes, there are two forms. The main form is for data entry purposes. If the species doesn't exist, the user can click the command button to open a form with two fields -- species and common name. I added a Requery method to the Species combo on the main form thinking that it would requery and repopulate the combo box when the user clicked the dropdown again -- but it doesn't. It's not even firing the Click event that I added. If I could find the right event, I think it would work fine. Susan H. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Bill Benson wrote: > I thought you have 2 forms, one to choose species and another to add a > species. Isn't your command button to add opening a pop up form? > > You wrote "The popup form is entering the new species -- > > If so then the one before that I was calling the main form. I assumed also > that is the form that has the select species combo. > > You can request that from the popup. > On Sep 10, 2014 2:37 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > > > Yes, but I'm not sure what you're saying by "call the main form combos" > -- > > I knew that popular was really popup. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Did u read next post? > > > On Sep 10, 2014 1:49 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > > > > > > > > Susan, call the main forms combos re query right after popular > adds > > > the > > > > > new species. > > > > > > > > > > > > ==========I'm not sure what you meant by this. > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 14:33:57 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 15:33:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Bill Benson wrote: > I thought you have 2 forms, one to choose species and another to add a > species. Isn't your command button to add opening a pop up form? > > You wrote "The popup form is entering the new species -- > > If so then the one before that I was calling the main form. I assumed also > that is the form that has the select species combo. > > You can request that from the popup. > On Sep 10, 2014 2:37 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > > > Yes, but I'm not sure what you're saying by "call the main form combos" > -- > > I knew that popular was really popup. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Did u read next post? > > > On Sep 10, 2014 1:49 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > > > > > > > > Susan, call the main forms combos re query right after popular > adds > > > the > > > > > new species. > > > > > > > > > > > > ==========I'm not sure what you meant by this. > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 14:36:59 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 15:36:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items Message-ID: I could kiss you -- works like a charm Charlotte! Susan H. Nothing wrong with doing it via popup. You would need a DoEvents call to > allow it to process before you reset the rowsource of the combo or requery > the parent form. > > Charlotte > > From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 14:41:59 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 15:41:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What do you mean you added a re query method on that form? I was saying add lines of code in the event (s) of the pop up sayinf... On error resume next Set frmMain = forms (MyMainForm) On error goto 0 If not frmMain is nothing then FrmMain.controls (thecbo).requery End if On Sep 10, 2014 3:36 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > Right now, yes, there are two forms. The main form is for data entry > purposes. If the species doesn't exist, the user can click the command > button to open a form with two fields -- species and common name. > > I added a Requery method to the Species combo on the main form thinking > that it would requery and repopulate the combo box when the user clicked > the dropdown again -- but it doesn't. It's not even firing the Click event > that I added. If I could find the right event, I think it would work fine. > > Susan H. > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Bill Benson > wrote: > > > I thought you have 2 forms, one to choose species and another to add a > > species. Isn't your command button to add opening a pop up form? > > > > You wrote "The popup form is entering the new species -- > > > > If so then the one before that I was calling the main form. I assumed > also > > that is the form that has the select species combo. > > > > You can request that from the popup. > > On Sep 10, 2014 2:37 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > > > > > Yes, but I'm not sure what you're saying by "call the main form combos" > > -- > > > I knew that popular was really popup. > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > Did u read next post? > > > > On Sep 10, 2014 1:49 PM, "Susan Harkins" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Susan, call the main forms combos re query right after popular > > adds > > > > the > > > > > > new species. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==========I'm not sure what you meant by this. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 14:43:06 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 15:43:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And I am not expecting a kiss because maybe I misread your requirement or environment but the method I suggested works. On Sep 10, 2014 3:41 PM, "Bill Benson" wrote: > What do you mean you added a re query method on that form? I was saying > add lines of code in the event (s) of the pop up sayinf... > > On error resume next > Set frmMain = forms (MyMainForm) > On error goto 0 > If not frmMain is nothing then > FrmMain.controls (thecbo).requery > End if > On Sep 10, 2014 3:36 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > >> Right now, yes, there are two forms. The main form is for data entry >> purposes. If the species doesn't exist, the user can click the command >> button to open a form with two fields -- species and common name. >> >> I added a Requery method to the Species combo on the main form thinking >> that it would requery and repopulate the combo box when the user clicked >> the dropdown again -- but it doesn't. It's not even firing the Click event >> that I added. If I could find the right event, I think it would work fine. >> >> Susan H. >> >> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Bill Benson >> wrote: >> >> > I thought you have 2 forms, one to choose species and another to add a >> > species. Isn't your command button to add opening a pop up form? >> > >> > You wrote "The popup form is entering the new species -- >> > >> > If so then the one before that I was calling the main form. I assumed >> also >> > that is the form that has the select species combo. >> > >> > You can request that from the popup. >> > On Sep 10, 2014 2:37 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: >> > >> > > Yes, but I'm not sure what you're saying by "call the main form >> combos" >> > -- >> > > I knew that popular was really popup. >> > > >> > > Susan H. >> > > >> > > Did u read next post? >> > > > On Sep 10, 2014 1:49 PM, "Susan Harkins" >> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > > Susan, call the main forms combos re query right after popular >> > adds >> > > > the >> > > > > > new species. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > ==========I'm not sure what you meant by this. >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > -- >> > > AccessD mailing list >> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 15:06:46 2014 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:06:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What are you kissing me for? DoEvents or resetting the rowsource? On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > I could kiss you -- works like a charm Charlotte! > > Susan H. > > > Nothing wrong with doing it via popup. You would need a DoEvents call to > > allow it to process before you reset the rowsource of the combo or > requery > > the parent form. > > > > Charlotte > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 16:00:50 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 17:00:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: DoEvents -- all I did was drop one in before the Requery method and it worked great. Thank you! Susan H. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > What are you kissing me for? DoEvents or resetting the rowsource? > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Susan Harkins > wrote: > > > I could kiss you -- works like a charm Charlotte! > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > Nothing wrong with doing it via popup. You would need a DoEvents call to > > > allow it to process before you reset the rowsource of the combo or > > requery > > > the parent form. > > > > > > Charlotte > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 17:11:18 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 18:11:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Want to repopulate combo after adding items In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A requery on the combo box control,,not the form. Susan H. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Bill Benson wrote: > What do you mean you added a re query method on that form? I was saying add > lines of code in the event (s) of the pop up sayinf... > > On error resume next > Set frmMain = forms (MyMainForm) > On error goto 0 > If not frmMain is nothing then > FrmMain.controls (thecbo).requery > End if > On Sep 10, 2014 3:36 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > > > Right now, yes, there are two forms. The main form is for data entry > > purposes. If the species doesn't exist, the user can click the command > > button to open a form with two fields -- species and common name. > > > > I added a Requery method to the Species combo on the main form thinking > > that it would requery and repopulate the combo box when the user clicked > > the dropdown again -- but it doesn't. It's not even firing the Click > event > > that I added. If I could find the right event, I think it would work > fine. > > > > Susan H. > > > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Bill Benson > > wrote: > > > > > I thought you have 2 forms, one to choose species and another to add a > > > species. Isn't your command button to add opening a pop up form? > > > > > > You wrote "The popup form is entering the new species -- > > > > > > If so then the one before that I was calling the main form. I assumed > > also > > > that is the form that has the select species combo. > > > > > > You can request that from the popup. > > > On Sep 10, 2014 2:37 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, but I'm not sure what you're saying by "call the main form > combos" > > > -- > > > > I knew that popular was really popup. > > > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > Did u read next post? > > > > > On Sep 10, 2014 1:49 PM, "Susan Harkins" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Susan, call the main forms combos re query right after popular > > > adds > > > > > the > > > > > > > new species. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==========I'm not sure what you meant by this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From actebs at actebs.com.au Thu Sep 11 04:12:50 2014 From: actebs at actebs.com.au (ACTEBS) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 19:12:50 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas In-Reply-To: References: <000001cfccbe$0de1fb40$29a5f1c0$@actebs.com.au> Message-ID: <000001cfcda0$8fae25d0$af0a7170$@actebs.com.au> Hi Charlotte, Yes, I am at that stage and coming to a similar conclusion as you. My concern is the Polarised Light Microscopy being displayed horizontally rather than vertically, which makes it a lot more complicated. I've just found out that there could be more than samples A, B, C and D, so that complicates it more. Is there a way to display a continuous form horizontally rather than vertically? Thanks Vlado -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, 11 September 2014 4:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas You need a table for samples with a field that allows you to determine the order. Then you might use a table for Fibers Morphology and another for Polarized Light Microscopy, each with the fields needed for the information that applies. Each of those tables would be child tables to the main Sample table, which would contain any other information collected for a sample. The Sample PK would be a FK in each of the child tables. That would allow you to present the information in a variety of layouts without straining yourself. This assumes a one-to-one relationship between the tables but could allow for the addition of multiple results if you added a unique key to each child table as PK and allowed duplicates of the parent key. If they wanted to add different kinds of results, you would just add another table. Charlotte On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 11:11 PM, ACTEBS wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > > > Got a complex form that we're turning into a DB and having difficulty > coming up with a good table structure to suit the form and the way the > data is collected and input. > > > > They want the Access DB to mirror the form. You can see the form here: > > > > http://download.actebs.com.au/FormDoc.jpg > > > > As you can see by the example image above the sample are marked as A, > B, C, and D, but sometimes they display it vertically and other > horizontally, which is confusing the hell out of me. Any idea on how > best to design the table structure so the data is easy to work with down the track? > > > > Any ideas most welcome. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Vlado > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From actebs at actebs.com.au Thu Sep 11 04:13:57 2014 From: actebs at actebs.com.au (ACTEBS) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 19:13:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas In-Reply-To: <2ED92CFE5B5D434FBFF431E9182A6C7D@HAL9007> References: <000001cfccbe$0de1fb40$29a5f1c0$@actebs.com.au><000501cfccc0$3cf01d70$b6d05850$@actebs.com.au> <2ED92CFE5B5D434FBFF431E9182A6C7D@HAL9007> Message-ID: <000101cfcda0$b78b12c0$26a13840$@actebs.com.au> Hi Rocky, Just found out that there could be more, which makes it a hell of a lot more complicated. Thanks Vlado -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, 10 September 2014 11:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Vlado: Is the number of samples always 4 - A, B, C, D. Or could there be three or six, or even more? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ACTEBS Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 11:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Hi Darryl, Yes, sorry I should have made that clearer. I'm basically after ideas for the table structure. Forget about the user interface, I can manipulate it to suit. I just can't come up with an elegant solution for the tables. Thanks Vlado -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, 10 September 2014 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Hi Vlado, By the "Want the DB to mirror the form" requirement, I assume you mean for the data entry requirement. How you set up the underlying table structure should be very different. Is that your understanding as well? Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ACTEBS Sent: Wednesday, 10 September 2014 4:11 PM To: access group Subject: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Hi Everyone, Got a complex form that we're turning into a DB and having difficulty coming up with a good table structure to suit the form and the way the data is collected and input. They want the Access DB to mirror the form. You can see the form here: http://download.actebs.com.au/FormDoc.jpg As you can see by the example image above the sample are marked as A, B, C, and D, but sometimes they display it vertically and other horizontally, which is confusing the hell out of me. Any idea on how best to design the table structure so the data is easy to work with down the track? Any ideas most welcome. Thanks in advance. Vlado -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Sep 11 09:17:29 2014 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 07:17:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas In-Reply-To: <000101cfcda0$b78b12c0$26a13840$@actebs.com.au> References: <000001cfccbe$0de1fb40$29a5f1c0$@actebs.com.au><000501cfccc0$3cf01d70$b6d05850$@actebs.com.au><2ED92CFE5B5D434FBFF431E9182A6C7D@HAL9007> <000101cfcda0$b78b12c0$26a13840$@actebs.com.au> Message-ID: For table structure I still think the standard header/detail approach is the best. The way data is structured in the tables should, I believe, be done without regard to the way the data is displayed. If the table structure is correct, then you can always format the data to their liking. For the form, if they really want the form to follow the current paper form (not a good restriction - there are so many ways to present data - but if they want it, they want it) I'd make the main form with fields in the area they call "Sample Detail" bound to the header fields. The nomenclature a bit confusing here because the header table fields come from what they call 'detail' at the top of the form. So let's put the detail fields into what we'll call the 'Parent' table and the details about each sample (A, B, C, etc) into the 'Child' table. And then four sub-forms - Stereo Microscopy, the horizontal section, Trace Analysis, and Fibres present. But all four sub-forms would draw from the same child table which would have a FK pointing that the parent, of course, and a field with the letter A, B, C, D, etc. So the only problematical part of the data entry form, and presumably, the report is the horizontal display. Can they give you an upper limit of the number of samples? Without that, it's still possible but at that point, I try to convince them to go vertical. But assuming there's an upper limit, you could try an approach I had to use in a case like this - the sub-form could have all of the columns required but at zero width but with their left property at the right spacing. When a record is accessed, the width of the number of columns matching the number of child records for that parent is set to whatever width you need, plus one more for the new record. The sub-form has a horizontal slider in case the number of child samples it too big for the width of the display. And, of course, the horizontal sub-form needs to be unbound, meaning you load the records for that parent record in the current event of the parent form and write them back to the child table before moving to another record. The advantage here is that it's a lot of fun to write, and you get a chance to be really clever. The downside is that it costs your client a small fortune versus a vertical, continuous form approach. The report is more problematical assuming that the maximum number of child records exceeds the page width. But if money is no object... :) HTH Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ACTEBS Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 2:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Hi Rocky, Just found out that there could be more, which makes it a hell of a lot more complicated. Thanks Vlado -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, 10 September 2014 11:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Vlado: Is the number of samples always 4 - A, B, C, D. Or could there be three or six, or even more? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ACTEBS Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 11:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Hi Darryl, Yes, sorry I should have made that clearer. I'm basically after ideas for the table structure. Forget about the user interface, I can manipulate it to suit. I just can't come up with an elegant solution for the tables. Thanks Vlado -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, 10 September 2014 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Hi Vlado, By the "Want the DB to mirror the form" requirement, I assume you mean for the data entry requirement. How you set up the underlying table structure should be very different. Is that your understanding as well? Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ACTEBS Sent: Wednesday, 10 September 2014 4:11 PM To: access group Subject: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas Hi Everyone, Got a complex form that we're turning into a DB and having difficulty coming up with a good table structure to suit the form and the way the data is collected and input. They want the Access DB to mirror the form. You can see the form here: http://download.actebs.com.au/FormDoc.jpg As you can see by the example image above the sample are marked as A, B, C, and D, but sometimes they display it vertically and other horizontally, which is confusing the hell out of me. Any idea on how best to design the table structure so the data is easy to work with down the track? Any ideas most welcome. Thanks in advance. Vlado -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Sep 11 09:20:02 2014 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 07:20:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas In-Reply-To: <000001cfcda0$8fae25d0$af0a7170$@actebs.com.au> References: <000001cfccbe$0de1fb40$29a5f1c0$@actebs.com.au> <000001cfcda0$8fae25d0$af0a7170$@actebs.com.au> Message-ID: No, and even if there was, you'd have an issue with printing it. The client is using spreadsheet thinking so you have to be smarter and come up with new ways to display the data and allow them to enter/edit it. The input screens do NOT need to mimic the printed form, which is pretty horrible. That's just the way clients think. If you present them with a tab control with a single tab for each input section, you can drop a continuous subform on each tab and handle as many samples as they need. Input should be consistent across the tabs. Horizontal and vertical distinctions are for printing. Data entry requires easy to read and enter/edit, so it will always be stacked vertically. Charlotte On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 2:12 AM, ACTEBS wrote: > Hi Charlotte, > > Yes, I am at that stage and coming to a similar conclusion as you. My > concern is the Polarised Light Microscopy being displayed horizontally > rather than vertically, which makes it a lot more complicated. I've just > found out that there could be more than samples A, B, C and D, so that > complicates it more. > > Is there a way to display a continuous form horizontally rather than > vertically? > > Thanks > > Vlado > > From DMcGillivray at ctc.ca.gov Thu Sep 11 12:26:44 2014 From: DMcGillivray at ctc.ca.gov (McGillivray, Don) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:26:44 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Design Considerations - Was: Table Structure Ideas Message-ID: The direction of this thread interests me because it resembles my own thought processes when evaluating different design considerations. I don't want to derail the conversation or muddy the water for the original poster, but I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of others on the implications of proposing a design approach that exceeds a client's stated requirements. In my experience, the client often has only a vague idea about how to structure data related to some task or problem, and usually has some narrow view about what a user interface should look like and how it should behave. Left to their own devices, clients would structure the data AFTER designing their preferred UI. They'll force the data structure to fit the UI, instead of ensuring a sound structure. Then, because the system was designed with a narrow vision of its function, entirely new systems may have to be developed (or existing ones extensively modified) to accommodate modest (and foreseeable) changes in the operating environment. (e.g., now we're testing samples of material x, using tests y and z.) This often leads to systems performing similar work in separate silos with no integration between them. How many times have we seen this when called in to design a solution? In the case of the problem presented here, it seems to me that there are three main entities that need to be modeled: Samples, Tests, and Test Results. In reality, there may be other entities involved with the application, such as the Client, the Job, the Sample Site, etc., but for now let's stick with Samples, Tests, and Results. Given this problem, I'd be inclined to construct a table for each of those entities, such that each sample may be related to one or more tests, and each test may be related to one or more results. A subsidiary table (or tables) could contain definitions for the various tests and constraining the types of results relevant to each test, and the types of tests relevant to each sample type. The advantage to this approach is that it provides a foundation for a solution to the current problem, while accommodating the (almost) inevitable future need to deal with new types of samples, tests, and results. Rather than adding new tables to accommodate new tests and their results, we just add new records to the subsidiary tables that define the attributes and relationships of each. Test A may be materially different from Test B, in terms of how it's conducted and what is measured, but at bottom they're identical: activities that yield results that need to be recorded and evaluated. Now, I know that this sort of a design is a bit more complex, in terms of its development, implementation, and ongoing maintenance. It's not as easy to explain to the client, either. So I'd also be tempted to round off some corners and compromise in the directions so far proposed. So, I have a couple of questions: First, does the approach described above make sense, or am I totally off-base? I'm always impressed with the quality of the contributions from AccessD posters, and, not having seen a suggestion resembling mine, I wonder if I'm over-complicating things or missing something obvious that would argue against it. I often think in this way about a problem when designing a solution, and if there's a better way, I'm all ears. Second, and more interestingly, where does one draw the line between delivering exactly (or as near to it) what the client has asked for, and designing for a future that even the client may not anticipate? Is it ever appropriate to "out-think" the client and deliver a system that they didn't ask for and don't know they'll be needing? How do you all approach this question? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas You need a table for samples with a field that allows you to determine the order. Then you might use a table for Fibers Morphology and another for Polarized Light Microscopy, each with the fields needed for the information that applies. Each of those tables would be child tables to the main Sample table, which would contain any other information collected for a sample. The Sample PK would be a FK in each of the child tables. That would allow you to present the information in a variety of layouts without straining yourself. This assumes a one-to-one relationship between the tables but could allow for the addition of multiple results if you added a unique key to each child table as PK and allowed duplicates of the parent key. If they wanted to add different kinds of results, you would just add another table. Charlotte On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 11:11 PM, ACTEBS wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > > > Got a complex form that we're turning into a DB and having difficulty > coming up with a good table structure to suit the form and the way the > data is collected and input. > > > > They want the Access DB to mirror the form. You can see the form here: > > > > http://download.actebs.com.au/FormDoc.jpg > > > > As you can see by the example image above the sample are marked as A, > B, C, and D, but sometimes they display it vertically and other > horizontally, which is confusing the hell out of me. Any idea on how > best to design the table structure so the data is easy to work with down the track? > > > > Any ideas most welcome. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Vlado > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Sep 11 12:50:52 2014 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 10:50:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Design Considerations - Was: Table Structure Ideas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, I think it makes sense, but I wasn't getting into the design that deep. To me, a table for tests would be a lookup table and there would still have to be tables for the various kinds of results returned from the different tests. I assumed the structure of those results would differ, thus requiring separate table structures. When explaining to clients, I start with figuring out how the data hangs together. I use XMind for that purpose because mind mapping "snowflakes" (as one of my clients christened the diagrams) are easy to understand with limited explanation required. It also allows me to modify the diagram in real time based on feedback from the client. When a client gets a basic grasp on how important the shape of the *data* is, they'll begin to see why the way they've been doing it isn't necessarily the optimal solution. Charlotte On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 10:26 AM, McGillivray, Don wrote: > The direction of this thread interests me because it resembles my own > thought processes when evaluating different design considerations. I don't > want to derail the conversation or muddy the water for the original poster, > but I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of others on the implications > of proposing a design approach that exceeds a client's stated requirements. > > In my experience, the client often has only a vague idea about how to > structure data related to some task or problem, and usually has some narrow > view about what a user interface should look like and how it should > behave. Left to their own devices, clients would structure the data AFTER > designing their preferred UI. They'll force the data structure to fit the > UI, instead of ensuring a sound structure. Then, because the system was > designed with a narrow vision of its function, entirely new systems may > have to be developed (or existing ones extensively modified) to accommodate > modest (and foreseeable) changes in the operating environment. (e.g., now > we're testing samples of material x, using tests y and z.) This often > leads to systems performing similar work in separate silos with no > integration between them. How many times have we seen this when called in > to design a solution? > > In the case of the problem presented here, it seems to me that there are > three main entities that need to be modeled: Samples, Tests, and Test > Results. In reality, there may be other entities involved with the > application, such as the Client, the Job, the Sample Site, etc., but for > now let's stick with Samples, Tests, and Results. Given this problem, I'd > be inclined to construct a table for each of those entities, such that each > sample may be related to one or more tests, and each test may be related to > one or more results. A subsidiary table (or tables) could contain > definitions for the various tests and constraining the types of results > relevant to each test, and the types of tests relevant to each sample > type. The advantage to this approach is that it provides a foundation for > a solution to the current problem, while accommodating the (almost) > inevitable future need to deal with new types of samples, tests, and > results. Rather than adding new tables to accommodate ne! > w tests and their results, we just add new records to the subsidiary > tables that define the attributes and relationships of each. Test A may be > materially different from Test B, in terms of how it's conducted and what > is measured, but at bottom they're identical: activities that yield results > that need to be recorded and evaluated. > > Now, I know that this sort of a design is a bit more complex, in terms of > its development, implementation, and ongoing maintenance. It's not as easy > to explain to the client, either. So I'd also be tempted to round off some > corners and compromise in the directions so far proposed. So, I have a > couple of questions: > > First, does the approach described above make sense, or am I totally > off-base? I'm always impressed with the quality of the contributions from > AccessD posters, and, not having seen a suggestion resembling mine, I > wonder if I'm over-complicating things or missing something obvious that > would argue against it. I often think in this way about a problem when > designing a solution, and if there's a better way, I'm all ears. > > Second, and more interestingly, where does one draw the line between > delivering exactly (or as near to it) what the client has asked for, and > designing for a future that even the client may not anticipate? Is it ever > appropriate to "out-think" the client and deliver a system that they didn't > ask for and don't know they'll be needing? How do you all approach this > question? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:44 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas > > You need a table for samples with a field that allows you to determine the > order. Then you might use a table for Fibers Morphology and another for > Polarized Light Microscopy, each with the fields needed for the information > that applies. Each of those tables would be child tables to the main > Sample table, which would contain any other information collected for a > sample. The Sample PK would be a FK in each of the child tables. > > That would allow you to present the information in a variety of layouts > without straining yourself. This assumes a one-to-one relationship between > the tables but could allow for the addition of multiple results if you > added a unique key to each child table as PK and allowed duplicates of the > parent key. If they wanted to add different kinds of results, you would > just add another table. > > Charlotte > > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 11:11 PM, ACTEBS wrote: > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > > > > > Got a complex form that we're turning into a DB and having difficulty > > coming up with a good table structure to suit the form and the way the > > data is collected and input. > > > > > > > > They want the Access DB to mirror the form. You can see the form here: > > > > > > > > http://download.actebs.com.au/FormDoc.jpg > > > > > > > > As you can see by the example image above the sample are marked as A, > > B, C, and D, but sometimes they display it vertically and other > > horizontally, which is confusing the hell out of me. Any idea on how > > best to design the table structure so the data is easy to work with down > the track? > > > > > > > > Any ideas most welcome. > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > Vlado > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Sep 11 13:13:03 2014 From: jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk (James Button) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 19:13:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Design Considerations - Was: Table Structure Ideas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My first consideration is the relationship you have with the users of the delivered system. If your contact with them is you provide it as specified by the 'management' than that is what you should do. Yes, you may discuss your concept of what is needed from the facility. And following that - maybe discuss what else the system may be required to do, and techniques that you, as an experienced developer believe are worth the extra effort - and consequent up-front cost with the targeted offset of future costs. That is basically a COST concept. Maybe you can suggest that some techniques be adopted as being minimal cost to avoid major constraints later - Y2K being a prime example - save 2 digits in a date - so the users don't have to enter the leading 19 all the time. AND - note the windows environment actually includes that concept - with a user specifiable range of years to be associated with the current century and the prior century. If you are working with the users then you have a good opening to prototype the facility and introduce what to you seem to be good design and input data handling and processing, while addressing the background maintenance and reporting needs. For instance - entering an animal - include their parents - with a search facility as a subsidiary option from the entry screen so they can search for the entries. But - what if the parent entries need to be entered - do that as a subsidiary process, or require them current entry to be abandoned in order to enter the parent entries. Then - Species - allow that to be selected from a list - with addition of new ones - or require a separate panel to 'add' Well you are going to need a panel for add, change, delete maintenance, and should you allow delete with cascade, or do it without cascade and leave orphan entries If a 'supervisor' has to do the delete, do they use a different panel, or the same panel with actions greyed out Strict normalisation - or just as needed for what they will be doing Stored procs - VBA on forms - DBMS with GUI included, built-in, or built-on audit and rebuild facilities It all comes down to money, and your relationship with the client as in is that interface at end- user, IT, or corporate management level, or maybe follow the documented & contracted requirements. I feel that those clients who willingly discuss matters of design with me at contract time get a far better result than those who tell me what they want and how it is to be done. And overall, I probably made more profit from the latter group than from those who were guided to systems that were logical and easy for them to understand and use. So - Horses for courses, providing the best ( to the clients view) facility you can for the money, and within their constraints JimB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of McGillivray, Don Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 6:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Design Considerations - Was: Table Structure Ideas The direction of this thread interests me because it resembles my own thought processes when evaluating different design considerations. I don't want to derail the conversation or muddy the water for the original poster, but I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of others on the implications of proposing a design approach that exceeds a client's stated requirements. In my experience, the client often has only a vague idea about how to structure data related to some task or problem, and usually has some narrow view about what a user interface should look like and how it should behave. Left to their own devices, clients would structure the data AFTER designing their preferred UI. They'll force the data structure to fit the UI, instead of ensuring a sound structure. Then, because the system was designed with a narrow vision of its function, entirely new systems may have to be developed (or existing ones extensively modified) to accommodate modest (and foreseeable) changes in the operating environment. (e.g., now we're testing samples of material x, using tests y and z.) This often leads to systems performing similar work in separate silos with no integration between them. How many times have we seen this when called in to design a solution? In the case of the problem presented here, it seems to me that there are three main entities that need to be modeled: Samples, Tests, and Test Results. In reality, there may be other entities involved with the application, such as the Client, the Job, the Sample Site, etc., but for now let's stick with Samples, Tests, and Results. Given this problem, I'd be inclined to construct a table for each of those entities, such that each sample may be related to one or more tests, and each test may be related to one or more results. A subsidiary table (or tables) could contain definitions for the various tests and constraining the types of results relevant to each test, and the types of tests relevant to each sample type. The advantage to this approach is that it provides a foundation for a solution to the current problem, while accommodating the (almost) inevitable future need to deal with new types of samples, tests, and results. Rather than adding new tables to accommodate ne! w tests and their results, we just add new records to the subsidiary tables that define the attributes and relationships of each. Test A may be materially different from Test B, in terms of how it's conducted and what is measured, but at bottom they're identical: activities that yield results that need to be recorded and evaluated. Now, I know that this sort of a design is a bit more complex, in terms of its development, implementation, and ongoing maintenance. It's not as easy to explain to the client, either. So I'd also be tempted to round off some corners and compromise in the directions so far proposed. So, I have a couple of questions: First, does the approach described above make sense, or am I totally off-base? I'm always impressed with the quality of the contributions from AccessD posters, and, not having seen a suggestion resembling mine, I wonder if I'm over-complicating things or missing something obvious that would argue against it. I often think in this way about a problem when designing a solution, and if there's a better way, I'm all ears. Second, and more interestingly, where does one draw the line between delivering exactly (or as near to it) what the client has asked for, and designing for a future that even the client may not anticipate? Is it ever appropriate to "out-think" the client and deliver a system that they didn't ask for and don't know they'll be needing? How do you all approach this question? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas You need a table for samples with a field that allows you to determine the order. Then you might use a table for Fibers Morphology and another for Polarized Light Microscopy, each with the fields needed for the information that applies. Each of those tables would be child tables to the main Sample table, which would contain any other information collected for a sample. The Sample PK would be a FK in each of the child tables. That would allow you to present the information in a variety of layouts without straining yourself. This assumes a one-to-one relationship between the tables but could allow for the addition of multiple results if you added a unique key to each child table as PK and allowed duplicates of the parent key. If they wanted to add different kinds of results, you would just add another table. Charlotte On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 11:11 PM, ACTEBS wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > > > Got a complex form that we're turning into a DB and having difficulty > coming up with a good table structure to suit the form and the way the > data is collected and input. > > > > They want the Access DB to mirror the form. You can see the form here: > > > > http://download.actebs.com.au/FormDoc.jpg > > > > As you can see by the example image above the sample are marked as A, > B, C, and D, but sometimes they display it vertically and other > horizontally, which is confusing the hell out of me. Any idea on how > best to design the table structure so the data is easy to work with down the track? > > > > Any ideas most welcome. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Vlado > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Sep 11 14:32:32 2014 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 12:32:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Design Considerations - Was: Table Structure Ideas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If the client insists on a particular UI design that I feel is a poor solution, I don't take the contract. No point in subjecting myself to abuse I can avoid. That's one of the advantages of free lancing. Charlotte On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:13 AM, James Button wrote: > My first consideration is the relationship you have with the users of the > delivered system. > > If your contact with them is you provide it as specified by the > 'management' > than that is what you should do. > Yes, you may discuss your concept of what is needed from the facility. > And following that - maybe discuss what else the system may be required to > do, > and techniques that you, as an experienced developer believe are worth the > extra > effort - and consequent up-front cost with the targeted offset of future > costs. > > That is basically a COST concept. > > Maybe you can suggest that some techniques be adopted as being minimal > cost to > avoid major constraints later > - Y2K being a prime example - save 2 digits in a date - so the users don't > have > to enter the leading 19 all the time. > AND - note the windows environment actually includes that concept - with a > user > specifiable range of years to be associated with the current century and > the > prior century. > > If you are working with the users then you have a good opening to > prototype the > facility and introduce what to you seem to be good design and input data > handling and processing, while addressing the background maintenance and > reporting needs. > > For instance - entering an animal - include their parents - with a search > facility as a subsidiary option from the entry screen so they can search > for the > entries. > But - what if the parent entries need to be entered - do that as a > subsidiary > process, or require them current entry to be abandoned in order to enter > the > parent entries. > > Then - Species - allow that to be selected from a list - with addition of > new > ones - or require a separate panel to 'add' > Well you are going to need a panel for add, change, delete maintenance, and > should you allow delete with cascade, or do it without cascade and leave > orphan > entries > If a 'supervisor' has to do the delete, do they use a different panel, or > the > same panel with actions greyed out > > Strict normalisation - or just as needed for what they will be doing > Stored procs - VBA on forms - DBMS with GUI included, built-in, or built-on > audit and rebuild facilities > > It all comes down to money, and your relationship with the client as in is > that > interface at end- user, IT, or corporate management level, or maybe follow > the > documented & contracted requirements. > > I feel that those clients who willingly discuss matters of design with me > at > contract time get a far better result than those who tell me what they > want and > how it is to be done. > And overall, I probably made more profit from the latter group than from > those > who were guided to systems that were logical and easy for them to > understand > and use. > > So - Horses for courses, providing the best ( to the clients view) > facility you > can for the money, and within their constraints > > JimB > > From jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Sep 11 14:55:40 2014 From: jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk (James Button) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 20:55:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Design Considerations - Was: Table Structure Ideas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Definitely nicer if the client will not only listen, but actually considers what is discussed. However many of us working on a basis that you are subcontracted to do the work involved in a contract agreed between your, and their senior management at a set cost to them. Others where the system environment is 'as currently is' and no changes are to be proposed, let alone considered, even though something relatively cheap - such as going to a better DBMS, or maybe from going from Excel multi-usr access to workbooks to using Access or MySQL for data storage with SQL to extract data into a user reporting and manipulation Excel environment. And then there is the "That's how we have always done it - and we do not want to change" attitude: At one 'job' I even got told off for providing an automated facility to do the reporting that was taking a senior team member a day each week. And that was just to show how the office facility could take 'stats data' from a mainframe, Spreadsheet massage it, then pass the totals etc. through to a document frame, and then on to be printed at the recipients office printers. JimB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 8:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Design Considerations - Was: Table Structure Ideas If the client insists on a particular UI design that I feel is a poor solution, I don't take the contract. No point in subjecting myself to abuse I can avoid. That's one of the advantages of free lancing. Charlotte From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Sep 11 16:01:21 2014 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:01:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas In-Reply-To: References: <000001cfccbe$0de1fb40$29a5f1c0$@actebs.com.au> <000001cfcda0$8fae25d0$af0a7170$@actebs.com.au> Message-ID: I have been over this several times, but shall try again. 3NF is totally inadequate. 4NF also fails. 5NF is the miniimalll correct soluution to a datbase involving 100M rows. Before proceeding further, let's get some terms straight. "Large" means 500+ tablles; "Rich" means a few gehundred tables with many millions of rows. It is possible, although rare, to encounter a database that is both large and rich Having thus defined the terms, and of course you are free to argue said terms, but this is IMO not a problem of issues but of terrminology. In my experience, very few databases are both large and rich; some years back I did develop one that comprised 500+ tables and 100M rows in the transaction table. Of course, the only way to make sense of this amount of data was partitions etc. Not a simple task. It took a couplle of years to design and build, and I could have not done it without Red Gate's tools. I have no interest in this company, but I have to sayy that the two best players in the game are Red Gate and ApexSQL. A. ? From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Sep 11 16:12:25 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:12:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Design Considerations - Was: Table Structure Ideas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <94F16DDC22D94299AA0B2EC30CBAB93B@XPS> Don, Yes it makes sense, although it can lead to a very complex design. For example, there are different types of samples and every test defined may not apply. If we had an air sample, ppm of a contaminate would, but a slump test would not (it's a test for concrete). So you'd need to add a table for sample types, and then an allowed test table for each type. But that is indeed the correct way to do it. If you've modeled a process properly, then I should be able to use the system without making changes to the database itself, only the data it contains. A new test coming along should not mean that I need to add a new table, queries, reports, etc, but just more records. But this brings up one other point with these types of systems; do you fully build in the knowledge of what is related to what or no? An example is a configurable assembly where parts A and B might go together, but C and D cannot. When you start building in those types of rules, then things get very complex. In general I find client never want to go that far, and they leave it up the user to determine if a "slump test" can be performed against an air sample. As far as the rest: <> That's a large gray area, but one of the things a client is paying you for is your advice on how it should be done. I always like to sit down and explain what the ramifications are of doing it one way vs another, especially if they want to take short cuts. In the end, it's their choice or course. <> I think so. Again, their paying you to know what needs to be done. I wrote a small system for a health care facility about six years ago. They thought I was going way over board with all the stuff I brought up, but there have been no changes since it went in. In fact they called just a few weeks ago about adding a new nurse and that was the first time I've heard from them in a couple of years (they forgot where it was in the menus). It's tracks patients, services, vaccines, billing etc and has a series of reports to monitor all that. I asked how it was working and if anything was giving them a problem. She said "no, it's done everything we've needed it to do". That's when you know you've done a design right. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of McGillivray, Don Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 01:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Design Considerations - Was: Table Structure Ideas The direction of this thread interests me because it resembles my own thought processes when evaluating different design considerations. I don't want to derail the conversation or muddy the water for the original poster, but I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of others on the implications of proposing a design approach that exceeds a client's stated requirements. In my experience, the client often has only a vague idea about how to structure data related to some task or problem, and usually has some narrow view about what a user interface should look like and how it should behave. Left to their own devices, clients would structure the data AFTER designing their preferred UI. They'll force the data structure to fit the UI, instead of ensuring a sound structure. Then, because the system was designed with a narrow vision of its function, entirely new systems may have to be developed (or existing ones extensively modified) to accommodate modest (and foreseeable) changes in the operating environment. (e.g., now we're testing samples of material x, using tests y and z.) This often leads to systems performing similar work in separate silos with no integration between them. How many times have we seen this when called in to design a solution? In the case of the problem presented here, it seems to me that there are three main entities that need to be modeled: Samples, Tests, and Test Results. In reality, there may be other entities involved with the application, such as the Client, the Job, the Sample Site, etc., but for now let's stick with Samples, Tests, and Results. Given this problem, I'd be inclined to construct a table for each of those entities, such that each sample may be related to one or more tests, and each test may be related to one or more results. A subsidiary table (or tables) could contain definitions for the various tests and constraining the types of results relevant to each test, and the types of tests relevant to each sample type. The advantage to this approach is that it provides a foundation for a solution to the current problem, while accommodating the (almost) inevitable future need to deal with new types of samples, tests, and results. Rather than adding new tables to accommodate ne! w tests and their results, we just add new records to the subsidiary tables that define the attributes and relationships of each. Test A may be materially different from Test B, in terms of how it's conducted and what is measured, but at bottom they're identical: activities that yield results that need to be recorded and evaluated. Now, I know that this sort of a design is a bit more complex, in terms of its development, implementation, and ongoing maintenance. It's not as easy to explain to the client, either. So I'd also be tempted to round off some corners and compromise in the directions so far proposed. So, I have a couple of questions: First, does the approach described above make sense, or am I totally off-base? I'm always impressed with the quality of the contributions from AccessD posters, and, not having seen a suggestion resembling mine, I wonder if I'm over-complicating things or missing something obvious that would argue against it. I often think in this way about a problem when designing a solution, and if there's a better way, I'm all ears. Second, and more interestingly, where does one draw the line between delivering exactly (or as near to it) what the client has asked for, and designing for a future that even the client may not anticipate? Is it ever appropriate to "out-think" the client and deliver a system that they didn't ask for and don't know they'll be needing? How do you all approach this question? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas You need a table for samples with a field that allows you to determine the order. Then you might use a table for Fibers Morphology and another for Polarized Light Microscopy, each with the fields needed for the information that applies. Each of those tables would be child tables to the main Sample table, which would contain any other information collected for a sample. The Sample PK would be a FK in each of the child tables. That would allow you to present the information in a variety of layouts without straining yourself. This assumes a one-to-one relationship between the tables but could allow for the addition of multiple results if you added a unique key to each child table as PK and allowed duplicates of the parent key. If they wanted to add different kinds of results, you would just add another table. Charlotte On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 11:11 PM, ACTEBS wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > > > Got a complex form that we're turning into a DB and having difficulty > coming up with a good table structure to suit the form and the way the > data is collected and input. > > > > They want the Access DB to mirror the form. You can see the form here: > > > > http://download.actebs.com.au/FormDoc.jpg > > > > As you can see by the example image above the sample are marked as A, > B, C, and D, but sometimes they display it vertically and other > horizontally, which is confusing the hell out of me. Any idea on how > best to design the table structure so the data is easy to work with down the track? > > > > Any ideas most welcome. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Vlado > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Thu Sep 11 20:08:53 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 01:08:53 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Design Considerations - Was: Table Structure Ideas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30fe06dbfffe46cb9d4e3f317b7242f5@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Great post Don - I am going to file this one as I have seen and experienced many of these issues and questions in my professional life. As for "Is it ever appropriate to "out-think" the client and deliver a system that they didn't ask for and don't know they'll be needing?" For many clients I have worked with it is nearly always this way. It is not their fault though as they think of data in terms of the front end UI forms (almost like MS Word visual frame) and have little to no understanding of data integrity, scalability and the ease of updating for future changes - and there are always changes. It is usually worth spending a fair bit of time talking to the client about their needs and watching how folks use the interface before starting. Having a deeper understanding about how the data is used and how it integrates into their organisation and systems usually pays big dividends. As ol' Abe Lincoln was reported to have said "Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe." So I would say 'yes' in the majority of cases. Trust your experience and instincts - make the front end just as the like it, but make sure the back end is built as you need it to be, not as the client thinks it should be - they are usually completely out of their depth here. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of McGillivray, Don Sent: Friday, 12 September 2014 3:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Design Considerations - Was: Table Structure Ideas The direction of this thread interests me because it resembles my own thought processes when evaluating different design considerations. I don't want to derail the conversation or muddy the water for the original poster, but I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of others on the implications of proposing a design approach that exceeds a client's stated requirements. In my experience, the client often has only a vague idea about how to structure data related to some task or problem, and usually has some narrow view about what a user interface should look like and how it should behave. Left to their own devices, clients would structure the data AFTER designing their preferred UI. They'll force the data structure to fit the UI, instead of ensuring a sound structure. Then, because the system was designed with a narrow vision of its function, entirely new systems may have to be developed (or existing ones extensively modified) to accommodate modest (and foreseeable) changes in the operating environment. (e.g., now we're testing samples of material x, using tests y and z.) This often leads to systems performing similar work in separate silos with no integration between them. How many times have we seen this when called in to design a solution? In the case of the problem presented here, it seems to me that there are three main entities that need to be modeled: Samples, Tests, and Test Results. In reality, there may be other entities involved with the application, such as the Client, the Job, the Sample Site, etc., but for now let's stick with Samples, Tests, and Results. Given this problem, I'd be inclined to construct a table for each of those entities, such that each sample may be related to one or more tests, and each test may be related to one or more results. A subsidiary table (or tables) could contain definitions for the various tests and constraining the types of results relevant to each test, and the types of tests relevant to each sample type. The advantage to this approach is that it provides a foundation for a solution to the current problem, while accommodating the (almost) inevitable future need to deal with new types of samples, tests, and results. Rather than adding new tables to accommodate ne! w tests and their results, we just add new records to the subsidiary tables that define the attributes and relationships of each. Test A may be materially different from Test B, in terms of how it's conducted and what is measured, but at bottom they're identical: activities that yield results that need to be recorded and evaluated. Now, I know that this sort of a design is a bit more complex, in terms of its development, implementation, and ongoing maintenance. It's not as easy to explain to the client, either. So I'd also be tempted to round off some corners and compromise in the directions so far proposed. So, I have a couple of questions: First, does the approach described above make sense, or am I totally off-base? I'm always impressed with the quality of the contributions from AccessD posters, and, not having seen a suggestion resembling mine, I wonder if I'm over-complicating things or missing something obvious that would argue against it. I often think in this way about a problem when designing a solution, and if there's a better way, I'm all ears. Second, and more interestingly, where does one draw the line between delivering exactly (or as near to it) what the client has asked for, and designing for a future that even the client may not anticipate? Is it ever appropriate to "out-think" the client and deliver a system that they didn't ask for and don't know they'll be needing? How do you all approach this question? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas You need a table for samples with a field that allows you to determine the order. Then you might use a table for Fibers Morphology and another for Polarized Light Microscopy, each with the fields needed for the information that applies. Each of those tables would be child tables to the main Sample table, which would contain any other information collected for a sample. The Sample PK would be a FK in each of the child tables. That would allow you to present the information in a variety of layouts without straining yourself. This assumes a one-to-one relationship between the tables but could allow for the addition of multiple results if you added a unique key to each child table as PK and allowed duplicates of the parent key. If they wanted to add different kinds of results, you would just add another table. Charlotte On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 11:11 PM, ACTEBS wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > > > Got a complex form that we're turning into a DB and having difficulty > coming up with a good table structure to suit the form and the way the > data is collected and input. > > > > They want the Access DB to mirror the form. You can see the form here: > > > > http://download.actebs.com.au/FormDoc.jpg > > > > As you can see by the example image above the sample are marked as A, > B, C, and D, but sometimes they display it vertically and other > horizontally, which is confusing the hell out of me. Any idea on how > best to design the table structure so the data is easy to work with down the track? > > > > Any ideas most welcome. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Vlado > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Fri Sep 12 11:08:23 2014 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 12:08:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Design Considerations - Was: Table Structure Ideas In-Reply-To: <30fe06dbfffe46cb9d4e3f317b7242f5@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <30fe06dbfffe46cb9d4e3f317b7242f5@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <002301cfcea3$c7d12f80$57738e80$@net> Wow Darryl, I could not agree more. This was really wise advice and countenance. However, it doesn't work in all organizations. Some want IMMEDIATE results....and sadly, they don't care about the quality. I HATE THAT APPROACH. In my last (and awful) contract, I would think of a design, implement it, and then and ONLY THEN would the manager berate me and say "why didn't you do it this way ?". I was constantly re-writing code. > > Great post Don - I am going to file this one as I have seen and > experienced many of these issues and questions in my professional life. > > As for "Is it ever appropriate to "out-think" the client and deliver a > system that they didn't ask for and don't know they'll be needing?" > > For many clients I have worked with it is nearly always this way. It > is not their fault though as they think of data in terms of the front > end UI forms (almost like MS Word visual frame) and have little to no > understanding of data integrity, scalability and the ease of updating > for future changes - and there are always changes. > > It is usually worth spending a fair bit of time talking to the client > about their needs and watching how folks use the interface before > starting. Having a deeper understanding about how the data is used and > how it integrates into their organisation and systems usually pays big > dividends. > > As ol' Abe Lincoln was reported to have said "Give me six hours to chop > down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe." > > So I would say 'yes' in the majority of cases. Trust your experience > and instincts - make the front end just as the like it, but make sure > the back end is built as you need it to be, not as the client thinks it > should be - they are usually completely out of their depth here. > > Cheers > Darryl > From DMcGillivray at ctc.ca.gov Fri Sep 12 11:16:21 2014 From: DMcGillivray at ctc.ca.gov (McGillivray, Don) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 16:16:21 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Design Considerations - Was: Table Structure Ideas In-Reply-To: <30fe06dbfffe46cb9d4e3f317b7242f5@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <30fe06dbfffe46cb9d4e3f317b7242f5@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Thanks to all for your responses. I've been working with Access off and on for over 15 years - mostly as an employee within larger organizations. My knowledge of database design has been acquired mostly through trial and error (with emphasis on the error) along with a reliance on trusted resources - AccessD being chief among them. Given my seat-of-the-pants training, I appreciate the validation of my understanding. It's also encouraging to learn that there's precedent for the idea of designing for what's needed - in spite of what's been requested. Don -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 6:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Design Considerations - Was: Table Structure Ideas Great post Don - I am going to file this one as I have seen and experienced many of these issues and questions in my professional life. As for "Is it ever appropriate to "out-think" the client and deliver a system that they didn't ask for and don't know they'll be needing?" For many clients I have worked with it is nearly always this way. It is not their fault though as they think of data in terms of the front end UI forms (almost like MS Word visual frame) and have little to no understanding of data integrity, scalability and the ease of updating for future changes - and there are always changes. It is usually worth spending a fair bit of time talking to the client about their needs and watching how folks use the interface before starting. Having a deeper understanding about how the data is used and how it integrates into their organisation and systems usually pays big dividends. As ol' Abe Lincoln was reported to have said "Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe." So I would say 'yes' in the majority of cases. Trust your experience and instincts - make the front end just as the like it, but make sure the back end is built as you need it to be, not as the client thinks it should be - they are usually completely out of their depth here. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of McGillivray, Don Sent: Friday, 12 September 2014 3:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Design Considerations - Was: Table Structure Ideas The direction of this thread interests me because it resembles my own thought processes when evaluating different design considerations. I don't want to derail the conversation or muddy the water for the original poster, but I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of others on the implications of proposing a design approach that exceeds a client's stated requirements. In my experience, the client often has only a vague idea about how to structure data related to some task or problem, and usually has some narrow view about what a user interface should look like and how it should behave. Left to their own devices, clients would structure the data AFTER designing their preferred UI. They'll force the data structure to fit the UI, instead of ensuring a sound structure. Then, because the system was designed with a narrow vision of its function, entirely new systems may have to be developed (or existing ones extensively modified) to accommodate modest (and foreseeable) changes in the operating environment. (e.g., now we're testing samples of material x, using tests y and z.) This often leads to systems performing similar work in separate silos with no integration between them. How many times have we seen this when called in to design a solution? In the case of the problem presented here, it seems to me that there are three main entities that need to be modeled: Samples, Tests, and Test Results. In reality, there may be other entities involved with the application, such as the Client, the Job, the Sample Site, etc., but for now let's stick with Samples, Tests, and Results. Given this problem, I'd be inclined to construct a table for each of those entities, such that each sample may be related to one or more tests, and each test may be related to one or more results. A subsidiary table (or tables) could contain definitions for the various tests and constraining the types of results relevant to each test, and the types of tests relevant to each sample type. The advantage to this approach is that it provides a foundation for a solution to the current problem, while accommodating the (almost) inevitable future need to deal with new types of samples, tests, and results. Rather than adding new tables to accommodate ne! w tests and their results, we just add new records to the subsidiary tables that define the attributes and relationships of each. Test A may be materially different from Test B, in terms of how it's conducted and what is measured, but at bottom they're identical: activities that yield results that need to be recorded and evaluated. Now, I know that this sort of a design is a bit more complex, in terms of its development, implementation, and ongoing maintenance. It's not as easy to explain to the client, either. So I'd also be tempted to round off some corners and compromise in the directions so far proposed. So, I have a couple of questions: First, does the approach described above make sense, or am I totally off-base? I'm always impressed with the quality of the contributions from AccessD posters, and, not having seen a suggestion resembling mine, I wonder if I'm over-complicating things or missing something obvious that would argue against it. I often think in this way about a problem when designing a solution, and if there's a better way, I'm all ears. Second, and more interestingly, where does one draw the line between delivering exactly (or as near to it) what the client has asked for, and designing for a future that even the client may not anticipate? Is it ever appropriate to "out-think" the client and deliver a system that they didn't ask for and don't know they'll be needing? How do you all approach this question? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Table Structure Ideas You need a table for samples with a field that allows you to determine the order. Then you might use a table for Fibers Morphology and another for Polarized Light Microscopy, each with the fields needed for the information that applies. Each of those tables would be child tables to the main Sample table, which would contain any other information collected for a sample. The Sample PK would be a FK in each of the child tables. That would allow you to present the information in a variety of layouts without straining yourself. This assumes a one-to-one relationship between the tables but could allow for the addition of multiple results if you added a unique key to each child table as PK and allowed duplicates of the parent key. If they wanted to add different kinds of results, you would just add another table. Charlotte On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 11:11 PM, ACTEBS wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > > > Got a complex form that we're turning into a DB and having difficulty > coming up with a good table structure to suit the form and the way the > data is collected and input. > > > > They want the Access DB to mirror the form. You can see the form here: > > > > http://download.actebs.com.au/FormDoc.jpg > > > > As you can see by the example image above the sample are marked as A, > B, C, and D, but sometimes they display it vertically and other > horizontally, which is confusing the hell out of me. Any idea on how > best to design the table structure so the data is easy to work with down the track? > > > > Any ideas most welcome. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Vlado > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Sep 13 06:27:08 2014 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 11:27:08 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1410607628748.7942@cactus.dk> Hi all Well, this old zd8237 is now nearly 9 years old and still in good shape. So I decided to beef it up with a 128 GB SSD drive and Windows 8.1 Update 2, of course as 32-bit. It installed in half an hour. The trouble was - as expected - the old Radeon X600 chip for which the latest driver is for Vista. I managed to fix this: http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/94640ce9-9160-4166-8908-acffab5c71d5/ati-mobility-radeon-x600-driver-update-installs-but-screen-goes-black?forum=w7itprohardware&prof=required The machine now boots in 25 seconds to the logon screen (domain logon) and 5 seconds more to the Desktop and runs as well as ever before. So this must be the end to the myth that Windows 7/8 doesn't run on old hardware. /gustav ________________________________________ Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com p? vegne af Gustav Brock Sendt: 2. december 2011 22:48 Til: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Hi Jim Of course, most old hardware won't do. But I just installed Windows 7 Pro on my 6 years old HP 17" Pavilion zd8000 (zd8237) laptop (P4, 3 GHz, 2 GB ram, 90 GB disk, ATI Radeon X600 with DirectX 9) and it runs of course not fast but smoothly. It took a little to locate the legacy ATI video drivers for Vista, though. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 01-12-2011 22:11 >>> Try running Win 7 on older hardware and you won't like it. Jim. From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Sep 13 11:38:06 2014 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 10:38:06 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [AccessD] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <1410607628748.7942@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <1589047380.73403620.1410626286192.JavaMail.root@cds018> An interesting aside, is that Googles "sunsetting" SHA-1 and other old security protocols. How is this going to affect Microsoft? It means that a number of OSs and applications will be deprecated as they can not accommodate the new security. This means that only Window 8.x +, the latest Office versions and the latest IE will be able to be upgraded to the new signing capabilities. For further details: http://googleonlinesecurity.blogspot.ca/2014/09/gradually-sunsetting-sha-1.html This may work very well for Microsoft in getting customers away from older products. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 4:27:08 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Hi all Well, this old zd8237 is now nearly 9 years old and still in good shape. So I decided to beef it up with a 128 GB SSD drive and Windows 8.1 Update 2, of course as 32-bit. It installed in half an hour. The trouble was - as expected - the old Radeon X600 chip for which the latest driver is for Vista. I managed to fix this: http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/94640ce9-9160-4166-8908-acffab5c71d5/ati-mobility-radeon-x600-driver-update-installs-but-screen-goes-black?forum=w7itprohardware&prof=required The machine now boots in 25 seconds to the logon screen (domain logon) and 5 seconds more to the Desktop and runs as well as ever before. So this must be the end to the myth that Windows 7/8 doesn't run on old hardware. /gustav ________________________________________ Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com p? vegne af Gustav Brock Sendt: 2. december 2011 22:48 Til: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Emne: Re: [AccessD] Windows 8 Hi Jim Of course, most old hardware won't do. But I just installed Windows 7 Pro on my 6 years old HP 17" Pavilion zd8000 (zd8237) laptop (P4, 3 GHz, 2 GB ram, 90 GB disk, ATI Radeon X600 with DirectX 9) and it runs of course not fast but smoothly. It took a little to locate the legacy ATI video drivers for Vista, though. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 01-12-2011 22:11 >>> Try running Win 7 on older hardware and you won't like it. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 14:13:46 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 15:13:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question Message-ID: I'm still working on the animal tracking database. It's going Okay, but I don't have a lot of free time to work on it. ;) Right now I'm hashing through institution contacts and phone numbers. I think, for the most part, that most phone numbers will belong to the institution, but maybe not -- what if the institution has more than one contact and each has a number? On the other hand, if I relate the phone number to the contact and the contact leaves, I lose the phone number, which might rightly belong to the institution. You know, looking back... I can't remember how I handled this in the past. Susan H. From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Sep 16 14:42:14 2014 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 15:42:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <017b01cfd1e6$51660f00$f4322d00$@net> What's wrong with having numbers at both levels ? In addition it might be helpful to have a "personal phone" indicator for the contacts to identify the office phones from those held by the contact. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question > > I'm still working on the animal tracking database. It's going Okay, but > I > don't have a lot of free time to work on it. ;) > > Right now I'm hashing through institution contacts and phone numbers. I > think, for the most part, that most phone numbers will belong to the > institution, but maybe not -- what if the institution has more than one > contact and each has a number? On the other hand, if I relate the phone > number to the contact and the contact leaves, I lose the phone number, > which might rightly belong to the institution. > > You know, looking back... I can't remember how I handled this in the > past. > > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 14:45:00 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 15:45:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I read recently a phone number table with FkPhoneType .... and I want to say also, a FKBusinessEntityId. I am pretty sure i saw this in a sql server sample database called adventureworks. I could be wrong, but I liked it. That way a single phone number table works for all classes of entity (people, and institutions). From jbodin at sbor.com Tue Sep 16 14:49:12 2014 From: jbodin at sbor.com (John Bodin) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 19:49:12 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1410896952715.35270@sbor.com> Create a one--many linked Contacts table. You can add a date field for "Inactive Date" on the Contact record to go along with name, department, phone number, email address, whatever. If it Inactive Date gets filled in, you will know the contact is inactive as well as when the contact went inactive. You can then filter on this field to only show/report on active contacts. Then you will not lose any potentially important numbers. John Bodin jbodin at sbor.com ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 3:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question I'm still working on the animal tracking database. It's going Okay, but I don't have a lot of free time to work on it. ;) Right now I'm hashing through institution contacts and phone numbers. I think, for the most part, that most phone numbers will belong to the institution, but maybe not -- what if the institution has more than one contact and each has a number? On the other hand, if I relate the phone number to the contact and the contact leaves, I lose the phone number, which might rightly belong to the institution. You know, looking back... I can't remember how I handled this in the past. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Sep 16 14:58:30 2014 From: jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk (James Button) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 20:58:30 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Separate table with FK back to the institute and 'contact name' and 'contact title' Multiple entries allowing multiple numbers per person, and multiple people per number and person associated with multiple organisations Maybe an additional keys giving a priority on number for person, and priority for organisation Also times/dates/days that numbers apply, or do not apply You can have a person working at multiple organisations doing different types of tasks at different times Manager at one place, volunteer at another Basically - a searchable text field - or maybe 2 so the contact times can be separate from other notes. Setup a standard set of prefixes for the search to indicate Available weekDay MTWTFSU Periods from-to yyyymmdd-yyyymmdd Also email contacts #codes facebook website - so many ways to contact people now-days, but you basically need to know who - for what where and then the rest will be ok as text with pre-assigned prefix codes to let the reader know how to use the 'value'. And some of my clients have contact email and answerphone landline. Others have my cell number - not answered when I'm actually working with a client. Others get the personal number - is answered even if I'm working, or it's later than 7pm And I only have 1 'employment' at the moment. I used to be 'distribution manager' for several apps, systems support & DBM for mainframe, PC and network support and maintenance team leader as well as doing onsite liaison. That was real 'fun' especially when I found out the mainframe ops had the phone numbers of my local alehouses - not even safe of a Friday evening! JimB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 8:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question I'm still working on the animal tracking database. It's going Okay, but I don't have a lot of free time to work on it. ;) Right now I'm hashing through institution contacts and phone numbers. I think, for the most part, that most phone numbers will belong to the institution, but maybe not -- what if the institution has more than one contact and each has a number? On the other hand, if I relate the phone number to the contact and the contact leaves, I lose the phone number, which might rightly belong to the institution. You know, looking back... I can't remember how I handled this in the past. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Sep 16 16:45:12 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 07:45:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5418AF68.9190.7CBE21C3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Some phone numbers belong to positions, others belong to people and yet others belong to the whole institution. You should differentiate them. Think about it as: Institution: Inst Name, Address, Switchboard Phone # Position - Posn Name, Bus Phone # etc Person - , Pers Name, Pers Phone #, email etc Institution/Person is one-to-many Position/Person is potentially many-to-many -- Stuart > one contact and each has a number? On the other hand, if I relate the > phone number to the contact and the contact leaves, I lose the phone > number, which might rightly belong to the institution. > > You know, looking back... I can't remember how I handled this in the > past. > > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 17:35:36 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:35:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: <5418AF68.9190.7CBE21C3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <5418AF68.9190.7CBE21C3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hence business entity all those and a business entity type can be in a businessentity table. At least in some databases. On Sep 16, 2014 5:48 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > Some phone numbers belong to positions, others belong to people and yet > others belong to > the whole institution. You should differentiate them. > > Think about it as: > > Institution: Inst Name, Address, Switchboard Phone # > Position - Posn Name, Bus Phone # etc > Person - , Pers Name, Pers Phone #, email etc > > Institution/Person is one-to-many > Position/Person is potentially many-to-many > > > -- > Stuart > > > one contact and each has a number? On the other hand, if I relate the > > phone number to the contact and the contact leaves, I lose the phone > > number, which might rightly belong to the institution. > > > > You know, looking back... I can't remember how I handled this in the > > past. > > > > Susan H. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 17:45:13 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:45:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: <5418AF68.9190.7CBE21C3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <5418AF68.9190.7CBE21C3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <026101cfd1ff$e81b4280$b851c780$@gmail.com> I really like Mark and Bill's solution for this simple database -- I'm going to drop a new fk in and add "personal" to the type description. Well, that's my plan -- we'll see how it fits tomorrow. I really appreciate all the help. Thank you! Susan H. Some phone numbers belong to positions, others belong to people and yet others belong to the whole institution. You should differentiate them. Think about it as: Institution: Inst Name, Address, Switchboard Phone # Position - Posn Name, Bus Phone # etc Person - , Pers Name, Pers Phone #, email etc Institution/Person is one-to-many Position/Person is potentially many-to-many -- Stuart > one contact and each has a number? On the other hand, if I relate the > phone number to the contact and the contact leaves, I lose the phone > number, which might rightly belong to the institution. > > You know, looking back... I can't remember how I handled this in the > past. > > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 17:45:13 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:45:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <026201cfd1ff$e9033180$bb099480$@gmail.com> Well, at the risk of making you all groan... I don't think it'll ever be that complicated, but this is a great breakdown. Thanks! Susan H. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of James Button Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 3:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Another normalization question Separate table with FK back to the institute and 'contact name' and 'contact title' Multiple entries allowing multiple numbers per person, and multiple people per number and person associated with multiple organisations Maybe an additional keys giving a priority on number for person, and priority for organisation Also times/dates/days that numbers apply, or do not apply You can have a person working at multiple organisations doing different types of tasks at different times Manager at one place, volunteer at another Basically - a searchable text field - or maybe 2 so the contact times can be separate from other notes. Setup a standard set of prefixes for the search to indicate Available weekDay MTWTFSU Periods from-to yyyymmdd-yyyymmdd Also email contacts #codes facebook website - so many ways to contact people now-days, but you basically need to know who - for what where and then the rest will be ok as text with pre-assigned prefix codes to let the reader know how to use the 'value'. And some of my clients have contact email and answerphone landline. Others have my cell number - not answered when I'm actually working with a client. Others get the personal number - is answered even if I'm working, or it's later than 7pm And I only have 1 'employment' at the moment. I used to be 'distribution manager' for several apps, systems support & DBM for mainframe, PC and network support and maintenance team leader as well as doing onsite liaison. That was real 'fun' especially when I found out the mainframe ops had the phone numbers of my local alehouses - not even safe of a Friday evening! JimB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 8:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question I'm still working on the animal tracking database. It's going Okay, but I don't have a lot of free time to work on it. ;) Right now I'm hashing through institution contacts and phone numbers. I think, for the most part, that most phone numbers will belong to the institution, but maybe not -- what if the institution has more than one contact and each has a number? On the other hand, if I relate the phone number to the contact and the contact leaves, I lose the phone number, which might rightly belong to the institution. You know, looking back... I can't remember how I handled this in the past. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 17:45:13 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:45:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: <1410896952715.35270@sbor.com> References: <1410896952715.35270@sbor.com> Message-ID: <026301cfd1ff$e9c23bc0$bd46b340$@gmail.com> You bring up a point I hadn't considered -- inactive folks. Thank you! Susan H. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bodin Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 3:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Another normalization question Create a one--many linked Contacts table. You can add a date field for "Inactive Date" on the Contact record to go along with name, department, phone number, email address, whatever. If it Inactive Date gets filled in, you will know the contact is inactive as well as when the contact went inactive. You can then filter on this field to only show/report on active contacts. Then you will not lose any potentially important numbers. John Bodin jbodin at sbor.com ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 3:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question I'm still working on the animal tracking database. It's going Okay, but I don't have a lot of free time to work on it. ;) Right now I'm hashing through institution contacts and phone numbers. I think, for the most part, that most phone numbers will belong to the institution, but maybe not -- what if the institution has more than one contact and each has a number? On the other hand, if I relate the phone number to the contact and the contact leaves, I lose the phone number, which might rightly belong to the institution. You know, looking back... I can't remember how I handled this in the past. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 17:45:13 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:45:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <026601cfd1ff$eaad5f10$c0081d30$@gmail.com> Bill, this sounds similar to what Mark suggested. It sounds like the way to go for me. Susan H. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 3:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Another normalization question I read recently a phone number table with FkPhoneType .... and I want to say also, a FKBusinessEntityId. I am pretty sure i saw this in a sql server sample database called adventureworks. I could be wrong, but I liked it. That way a single phone number table works for all classes of entity (people, and institutions). -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 17:45:13 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:45:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: <017b01cfd1e6$51660f00$f4322d00$@net> References: <017b01cfd1e6$51660f00$f4322d00$@net> Message-ID: <026701cfd1ff$eb6a4670$c23ed350$@gmail.com> I hadn't thought of that -- it might be the simplest route. However, right now, the interface is connecting phones to institutions, but, there's no reason why I can't add the functionality to the contact form -- in fact, that's sounding pretty good right now. Susan H. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Another normalization question What's wrong with having numbers at both levels ? In addition it might be helpful to have a "personal phone" indicator for the contacts to identify the office phones from those held by the contact. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question > > I'm still working on the animal tracking database. It's going Okay, > but I don't have a lot of free time to work on it. ;) > > Right now I'm hashing through institution contacts and phone numbers. > I think, for the most part, that most phone numbers will belong to the > institution, but maybe not -- what if the institution has more than > one contact and each has a number? On the other hand, if I relate the > phone number to the contact and the contact leaves, I lose the phone > number, which might rightly belong to the institution. > > You know, looking back... I can't remember how I handled this in the > past. > > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 18:20:12 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 19:20:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: <026301cfd1ff$e9c23bc0$bd46b340$@gmail.com> References: <1410896952715.35270@sbor.com> <026301cfd1ff$e9c23bc0$bd46b340$@gmail.com> Message-ID: If you have a telephone number table, a contact who leaves can easily leave his office number to his replacement, right? And the same contact who has multiple phones, including 3 mobile numbers can be accommodated without widening the contact table. On Sep 16, 2014 6:48 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > You bring up a point I hadn't considered -- inactive folks. Thank you! > > Susan H. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bodin > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 3:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Another normalization question > > Create a one--many linked Contacts table. You can add a date field for > "Inactive Date" on the Contact record to go along with name, department, > phone number, email address, whatever. If it Inactive Date gets filled in, > you will know the contact is inactive as well as when the contact went > inactive. You can then filter on this field to only show/report on active > contacts. Then you will not lose any potentially important numbers. > > > > > > John Bodin > > jbodin at sbor.com > > > > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > on behalf of Susan Harkins > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 3:13 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question > > I'm still working on the animal tracking database. It's going Okay, but I > don't have a lot of free time to work on it. ;) > > Right now I'm hashing through institution contacts and phone numbers. I > think, for the most part, that most phone numbers will belong to the > institution, but maybe not -- what if the institution has more than one > contact and each has a number? On the other hand, if I relate the phone > number to the contact and the contact leaves, I lose the phone number, > which > might rightly belong to the institution. > > You know, looking back... I can't remember how I handled this in the past. > > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Sep 16 18:48:27 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 23:48:27 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is the approach I would take. Create a Phone number table and assign the number to whom / wherever it is needed using the key. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Wednesday, 17 September 2014 5:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Another normalization question I read recently a phone number table with FkPhoneType .... and I want to say also, a FKBusinessEntityId. I am pretty sure i saw this in a sql server sample database called adventureworks. I could be wrong, but I liked it. That way a single phone number table works for all classes of entity (people, and institutions). -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 19:23:15 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 20:23:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: <026601cfd1ff$eaad5f10$c0081d30$@gmail.com> References: <026601cfd1ff$eaad5f10$c0081d30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <012c01cfd20d$939d4880$bad7d980$@gmail.com> I just checked the adventureworks2012 sql server sample database and yes, there is a personphone table with fks to the businessentity table and the phonenumbertype table as I had suspected. Not pushing the idea further, just confirming that I have now been able to go back and do my diligence. However, there is no businessentitytype table as I had mistakenly assumed there to be. So apparently there is no attempt to distinguish what type of an entity is getting associated with a given phone number ---- e.g., institution, person, Bessie the cow... :-). It seems that the BusinessEntity table is just a log of all the, uh, entities that have been registered within the database, which includes in the case of that database, Employees Job candidates Businessentitycontacts Persons Gotta love the distinction between persons and employees, but I did not see a table called corporations so I guess what Romney said was really true, corporations are people too (unlike employees I guess) :-Q Stuart, I owe you an apology (whether or not you are still reading). I guess this businessentityid thing is just so that all those classified entities don't need their specialized keys (and corresponding FKs in the fact and junction tables, the businessentityid suffices. I don't really half know why this database is set up the way it is, I have not read any documentation on it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 6:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Another normalization question Bill, this sounds similar to what Mark suggested. It sounds like the way to go for me. Susan H. From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Sep 16 19:45:34 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 00:45:34 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: <012c01cfd20d$939d4880$bad7d980$@gmail.com> References: <026601cfd1ff$eaad5f10$c0081d30$@gmail.com> <012c01cfd20d$939d4880$bad7d980$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8e9015382d8147dba7fc7a19b6efbdc9@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> "Gotta love the distinction between persons and employees" Heh... I usually just have a "Humans" table and attach whatever criteria(s) are necessary from there. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Wednesday, 17 September 2014 10:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Another normalization question I just checked the adventureworks2012 sql server sample database and yes, there is a personphone table with fks to the businessentity table and the phonenumbertype table as I had suspected. Not pushing the idea further, just confirming that I have now been able to go back and do my diligence. However, there is no businessentitytype table as I had mistakenly assumed there to be. So apparently there is no attempt to distinguish what type of an entity is getting associated with a given phone number ---- e.g., institution, person, Bessie the cow... :-). It seems that the BusinessEntity table is just a log of all the, uh, entities that have been registered within the database, which includes in the case of that database, Employees Job candidates Businessentitycontacts Persons Gotta love the distinction between persons and employees, but I did not see a table called corporations so I guess what Romney said was really true, corporations are people too (unlike employees I guess) :-Q Stuart, I owe you an apology (whether or not you are still reading). I guess this businessentityid thing is just so that all those classified entities don't need their specialized keys (and corresponding FKs in the fact and junction tables, the businessentityid suffices. I don't really half know why this database is set up the way it is, I have not read any documentation on it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 6:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Another normalization question Bill, this sounds similar to what Mark suggested. It sounds like the way to go for me. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk Wed Sep 17 10:14:33 2014 From: jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk (James Button) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:14:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: <8e9015382d8147dba7fc7a19b6efbdc9@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <026601cfd1ff$eaad5f10$c0081d30$@gmail.com> <012c01cfd20d$939d4880$bad7d980$@gmail.com> <8e9015382d8147dba7fc7a19b6efbdc9@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Susan, Re my post of possibilities - mostly so you can include appropriate bits in the 'contact details' table. I would definitely recommend including a comments field (up to) 250 chars of text can be very useful. And if the office cat has a web id - as in locator is it an employee or a person. Ditto the organisation directors. JimB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 1:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Another normalization question "Gotta love the distinction between persons and employees" Heh... I usually just have a "Humans" table and attach whatever criteria(s) are necessary from there. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Wednesday, 17 September 2014 10:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Another normalization question I just checked the adventureworks2012 sql server sample database and yes, there is a personphone table with fks to the businessentity table and the phonenumbertype table as I had suspected. Not pushing the idea further, just confirming that I have now been able to go back and do my diligence. However, there is no businessentitytype table as I had mistakenly assumed there to be. So apparently there is no attempt to distinguish what type of an entity is getting associated with a given phone number ---- e.g., institution, person, Bessie the cow... :-). It seems that the BusinessEntity table is just a log of all the, uh, entities that have been registered within the database, which includes in the case of that database, Employees Job candidates Businessentitycontacts Persons Gotta love the distinction between persons and employees, but I did not see a table called corporations so I guess what Romney said was really true, corporations are people too (unlike employees I guess) :-Q Stuart, I owe you an apology (whether or not you are still reading). I guess this businessentityid thing is just so that all those classified entities don't need their specialized keys (and corresponding FKs in the fact and junction tables, the businessentityid suffices. I don't really half know why this database is set up the way it is, I have not read any documentation on it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 6:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Another normalization question Bill, this sounds similar to what Mark suggested. It sounds like the way to go for me. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 15:18:42 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:18:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] forms not printing Message-ID: I want to print the forms to show the boss but they won't print -- nothing shows up. Now, there's no data in them, is that why? Surely you can print an empty form with its controls? Susan H. From garykjos at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 15:26:55 2014 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:26:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] forms not printing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Better to do screen captures and then print those don't you think? On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > I want to print the forms to show the boss but they won't print -- nothing > shows up. Now, there's no data in them, is that why? Surely you can print > an empty form with its controls? > > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Sep 17 16:46:56 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 07:46:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] forms not printing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <541A0150.8164.81E61437@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Nope. Either populate with data or take screen captures and print them. -- Stuart On 17 Sep 2014 at 16:18, Susan Harkins wrote: > I want to print the forms to show the boss but they won't print -- > nothing shows up. Now, there's no data in them, is that why? Surely > you can print an empty form with its controls? > > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 16:49:56 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 17:49:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001cfd2c1$54cc4cf0$fe64e6d0$@gmail.com> That's my plan for now -- I'm going to let the user decide if the number belongs to the institution or the contact and have two fks in the phone table. Well, that's my plan. Susan H. This is the approach I would take. Create a Phone number table and assign the number to whom / wherever it is needed using the key. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Wednesday, 17 September 2014 5:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Another normalization question I read recently a phone number table with FkPhoneType .... and I want to say also, a FKBusinessEntityId. I am pretty sure i saw this in a sql server sample database called adventureworks. I could be wrong, but I liked it. That way a single phone number table works for all classes of entity (people, and institutions). -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 16:49:56 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 17:49:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: References: <1410896952715.35270@sbor.com> <026301cfd1ff$e9c23bc0$bd46b340$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000101cfd2c1$562eea30$028cbe90$@gmail.com> At this point, it isn't important. We have two people that do this and they'll know when someone's gone and who to call instead. It isn't a priority, not now anyway. It is something we can add later if she wants. This morning, we worked out a scheme for iding the box turtles -- we're going to use nail polish on their bellies and id them as M1, M2, F1, ... and so on, where m is male and f is female. We're nothing if not creative. :) Susan H. If you have a telephone number table, a contact who leaves can easily leave his office number to his replacement, right? And the same contact who has multiple phones, including 3 mobile numbers can be accommodated without widening the contact table. On Sep 16, 2014 6:48 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > You bring up a point I hadn't considered -- inactive folks. Thank you! > > Susan H. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bodin > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 3:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Another normalization question > > Create a one--many linked Contacts table. You can add a date field > for "Inactive Date" on the Contact record to go along with name, > department, phone number, email address, whatever. If it Inactive > Date gets filled in, you will know the contact is inactive as well as > when the contact went inactive. You can then filter on this field to > only show/report on active contacts. Then you will not lose any potentially important numbers. > > > > > > John Bodin > > jbodin at sbor.com > > > > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > on behalf of Susan Harkins > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 3:13 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question > > I'm still working on the animal tracking database. It's going Okay, > but I don't have a lot of free time to work on it. ;) > > Right now I'm hashing through institution contacts and phone numbers. > I think, for the most part, that most phone numbers will belong to the > institution, but maybe not -- what if the institution has more than > one contact and each has a number? On the other hand, if I relate the > phone number to the contact and the contact leaves, I lose the phone > number, which might rightly belong to the institution. > > You know, looking back... I can't remember how I handled this in the past. > > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 19:18:16 2014 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 17:18:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] forms not printing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not really. Forms are not intended to be printed, although they've shifted slightly on that with form views, but you've never been able to print the design from the IDE. You need to do screen capture. Charlotte On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > I want to print the forms to show the boss but they won't print -- nothing > shows up. Now, there's no data in them, is that why? Surely you can print > an empty form with its controls? > > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 19:19:34 2014 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 17:19:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: <000101cfd2c1$562eea30$028cbe90$@gmail.com> References: <1410896952715.35270@sbor.com> <026301cfd1ff$e9c23bc0$bd46b340$@gmail.com> <000101cfd2c1$562eea30$028cbe90$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Darn, and I was looking forward to seeing them outfitted with something like the headbands they put on babies now so you can tell what gender they are! LOL Charlotte On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > At this point, it isn't important. We have two people that do this and > they'll know when someone's gone and who to call instead. It isn't a > priority, not now anyway. It is something we can add later if she wants. > > This morning, we worked out a scheme for iding the box turtles -- we're > going to use nail polish on their bellies and id them as M1, M2, F1, ... > and > so on, where m is male and f is female. > > We're nothing if not creative. :) > > Susan H. > > > If you have a telephone number table, a contact who leaves can easily leave > his office number to his replacement, right? And the same contact who has > multiple phones, including 3 mobile numbers can be accommodated without > widening the contact table. > On Sep 16, 2014 6:48 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > > > You bring up a point I hadn't considered -- inactive folks. Thank you! > > > > Susan H. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bodin > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 3:49 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Another normalization question > > > > Create a one--many linked Contacts table. You can add a date field > > for "Inactive Date" on the Contact record to go along with name, > > department, phone number, email address, whatever. If it Inactive > > Date gets filled in, you will know the contact is inactive as well as > > when the contact went inactive. You can then filter on this field to > > only show/report on active contacts. Then you will not lose any > potentially important numbers. > > > > > > > > > > > > John Bodin > > > > jbodin at sbor.com > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > on behalf of Susan Harkins > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 3:13 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question > > > > I'm still working on the animal tracking database. It's going Okay, > > but I don't have a lot of free time to work on it. ;) > > > > Right now I'm hashing through institution contacts and phone numbers. > > I think, for the most part, that most phone numbers will belong to the > > institution, but maybe not -- what if the institution has more than > > one contact and each has a number? On the other hand, if I relate the > > phone number to the contact and the contact leaves, I lose the phone > > number, which might rightly belong to the institution. > > > > You know, looking back... I can't remember how I handled this in the > past. > > > > Susan H. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Sep 17 20:39:12 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 11:39:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Another normalization question In-Reply-To: References: , <000101cfd2c1$562eea30$028cbe90$@gmail.com>, Message-ID: <541A37C0.17506.82BAB6F0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Headbands on turtles? I didn't know they were the Teenage Mutant Ninja type. :) -- Stuart On 17 Sep 2014 at 17:19, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Darn, and I was looking forward to seeing them outfitted with > something like the headbands they put on babies now so you can tell > what gender they are! LOL > > Charlotte > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Susan Harkins > wrote: > > > At this point, it isn't important. We have two people that do this > > and they'll know when someone's gone and who to call instead. It > > isn't a priority, not now anyway. It is something we can add later > > if she wants. > > > > This morning, we worked out a scheme for iding the box turtles -- > > we're going to use nail polish on their bellies and id them as M1, > > M2, F1, ... and so on, where m is male and f is female. > > > > We're nothing if not creative. :) > > > > Susan H. From bradm at blackforestltd.com Thu Sep 18 15:45:44 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 20:45:44 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: <002a01cfaf40$a08c22e0$e1a468a0$@cox.net> References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net> <002a01cfaf40$a08c22e0$e1a468a0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <7c836e077fe4416ba874add88e5542d8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> All, I really like the DoCmd.OpenModule when developing in Access. Recently I have started a large project that is going to be using Excel. I have very little experience with Excel VBA. It appears that DoCmd.OpenModule will not work with Excel VBA. Is there another way to set up buttons in Excel in order to open modules? I know that this is really an Excel question and not an Access question, but I thought that someone in this group may have run into this before. Thanks, Brad From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Thu Sep 18 19:58:18 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 00:58:18 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: <7c836e077fe4416ba874add88e5542d8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net> <002a01cfaf40$a08c22e0$e1a468a0$@cox.net> <7c836e077fe4416ba874add88e5542d8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Brad, I work mostly with Excel - When you say "set up buttons in Excel in order to open modules" - you mean to press a button in the workbook to open up the VBE so you can see the code in that module, or do you mean to assign code to run when the button is pressed? As you have noticed. There are gobs of little syntax issues between Access VBA and Excel VBA. For all things Excel - you can also try the Excel-L (or Excel G) lists. They are very responsive and help. Been subbed for years on both (decades actually). G is usually for basic questions (How do I apply a Conditional Format - that sort of thing) L is for more prickly advanced issues and code stuff Naturally there is a wide grey area in that sort of classification. Many folks are subbed to both so only post to one or the other. X-posting is not necessary or appreciated. The EXCEL-L list is hosted on L-Soft international's LISTSERV(R) software running on Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2. For subscription/signoff info and archives, see http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/excel-l.html . Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 6:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? All, I really like the DoCmd.OpenModule when developing in Access. Recently I have started a large project that is going to be using Excel. I have very little experience with Excel VBA. It appears that DoCmd.OpenModule will not work with Excel VBA. Is there another way to set up buttons in Excel in order to open modules? I know that this is really an Excel question and not an Access question, but I thought that someone in this group may have run into this before. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Thu Sep 18 21:11:38 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 02:11:38 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net> <002a01cfaf40$a08c22e0$e1a468a0$@cox.net> <7c836e077fe4416ba874add88e5542d8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>, Message-ID: <1411092700474.50643@blackforestltd.com> Darryl, I would like to push a button to open up the VBE and see the code in a module. Thanks, Brad ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 7:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? Hi Brad, I work mostly with Excel - When you say "set up buttons in Excel in order to open modules" - you mean to press a button in the workbook to open up the VBE so you can see the code in that module, or do you mean to assign code to run when the button is pressed? As you have noticed. There are gobs of little syntax issues between Access VBA and Excel VBA. For all things Excel - you can also try the Excel-L (or Excel G) lists. They are very responsive and help. Been subbed for years on both (decades actually). G is usually for basic questions (How do I apply a Conditional Format - that sort of thing) L is for more prickly advanced issues and code stuff Naturally there is a wide grey area in that sort of classification. Many folks are subbed to both so only post to one or the other. X-posting is not necessary or appreciated. The EXCEL-L list is hosted on L-Soft international's LISTSERV(R) software running on Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2. For subscription/signoff info and archives, see http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/excel-l.html . Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 6:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? All, I really like the DoCmd.OpenModule when developing in Access. Recently I have started a large project that is going to be using Excel. I have very little experience with Excel VBA. It appears that DoCmd.OpenModule will not work with Excel VBA. Is there another way to set up buttons in Excel in order to open modules? I know that this is really an Excel question and not an Access question, but I thought that someone in this group may have run into this before. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Sep 18 21:28:16 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 12:28:16 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: <1411092700474.50643@blackforestltd.com> References: , , <1411092700474.50643@blackforestltd.com> Message-ID: <541B94C0.20173.3CE31E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> How about: Right click on the ribbon and select Customize the Ribbon Select All Commands in the left hand combo Click on Home in the right hand list Right click and select Add New Group Click on the new group Locate View Code in the left hand list and add it to the new group. As an alternative to the New Group on the Home screen, you could Select "Add New Tab" and put the button in ther group on that new tab. -- Stuart On 19 Sep 2014 at 2:11, Brad Marks wrote: > Darryl, > > I would like to push a button to open up the VBE and see the code in a > module. > > Thanks, > Brad > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > on behalf of Darryl Collins > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 > 7:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: > Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for > Excel ? > > Hi Brad, > > I work mostly with Excel - When you say "set up buttons in Excel in > order to open modules" - you mean to press a button in the workbook to > open up the VBE so you can see the code in that module, or do you mean > to assign code to run when the button is pressed? > > As you have noticed. There are gobs of little syntax issues between > Access VBA and Excel VBA. > > For all things Excel - you can also try the Excel-L (or Excel G) > lists. They are very responsive and help. Been subbed for years on > both (decades actually). > > G is usually for basic questions (How do I apply a Conditional Format > - that sort of thing) L is for more prickly advanced issues and code > stuff > > Naturally there is a wide grey area in that sort of classification. > Many folks are subbed to both so only post to one or the other. > X-posting is not necessary or appreciated. > > The EXCEL-L list is hosted on L-Soft international's LISTSERV(R) > software running on Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2. For > subscription/signoff info and archives, see > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/excel-l.html . > > Cheers > Darryl > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 6:46 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for > Access - Something similar for Excel ? > > All, > > I really like the DoCmd.OpenModule when developing in Access. > > Recently I have started a large project that is going to be using > Excel. I have very little experience with Excel VBA. > > It appears that DoCmd.OpenModule will not work with Excel VBA. Is > there another way to set up buttons in Excel in order to open modules? > > I know that this is really an Excel question and not an Access > question, but I thought that someone in this group may have run into > this before. > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Thu Sep 18 23:05:06 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 04:05:06 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: <1411092700474.50643@blackforestltd.com> References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net> <002a01cfaf40$a08c22e0$e1a468a0$@cox.net> <7c836e077fe4416ba874add88e5542d8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>, <1411092700474.50643@blackforestltd.com> Message-ID: <15457955da064da5a31a6afdfabb967e@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Pressing "Alt-F11" doesn't do the job? That will open the VBE and show you all the related code. If you are working with an object (say a button) you can right mouse click > 'Assign Macro' > 'Edit...'. That will take you directly to the underlying code for that object. Not sure why you need a button on the worksheet to get to the VBE (?) I probably don't completely understand what your needs are with this. Regards Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 12:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? Darryl, I would like to push a button to open up the VBE and see the code in a module. Thanks, Brad ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 7:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? Hi Brad, I work mostly with Excel - When you say "set up buttons in Excel in order to open modules" - you mean to press a button in the workbook to open up the VBE so you can see the code in that module, or do you mean to assign code to run when the button is pressed? As you have noticed. There are gobs of little syntax issues between Access VBA and Excel VBA. For all things Excel - you can also try the Excel-L (or Excel G) lists. They are very responsive and help. Been subbed for years on both (decades actually). G is usually for basic questions (How do I apply a Conditional Format - that sort of thing) L is for more prickly advanced issues and code stuff Naturally there is a wide grey area in that sort of classification. Many folks are subbed to both so only post to one or the other. X-posting is not necessary or appreciated. The EXCEL-L list is hosted on L-Soft international's LISTSERV(R) software running on Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2. For subscription/signoff info and archives, see http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/excel-l.html . Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 6:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? All, I really like the DoCmd.OpenModule when developing in Access. Recently I have started a large project that is going to be using Excel. I have very little experience with Excel VBA. It appears that DoCmd.OpenModule will not work with Excel VBA. Is there another way to set up buttons in Excel in order to open modules? I know that this is really an Excel question and not an Access question, but I thought that someone in this group may have run into this before. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bradm at blackforestltd.com Fri Sep 19 08:09:41 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 13:09:41 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: <15457955da064da5a31a6afdfabb967e@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net> <002a01cfaf40$a08c22e0$e1a468a0$@cox.net> <7c836e077fe4416ba874add88e5542d8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>, <1411092700474.50643@blackforestltd.com> <15457955da064da5a31a6afdfabb967e@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <33ba042575f14fa5b8002c515a236825@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Darryl, Over the past couple years, I have worked on a several Access applications that had many many modules. I found it to be very handy to have buttons on a form to more quickly view the VBA code (via DoCmd.OpenModule). I know that there are other ways to get at the code, but this method seems faster. I am now starting a project in Excel which is going to also have many modules. I was hoping to use the DoCmd.OpenModule command to do the same thing in Excel, but this command is not available in Excel. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? Pressing "Alt-F11" doesn't do the job? That will open the VBE and show you all the related code. If you are working with an object (say a button) you can right mouse click > 'Assign Macro' > 'Edit...'. That will take you directly to the underlying code for that object. Not sure why you need a button on the worksheet to get to the VBE (?) I probably don't completely understand what your needs are with this. Regards Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 12:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? Darryl, I would like to push a button to open up the VBE and see the code in a module. Thanks, Brad ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 7:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? Hi Brad, I work mostly with Excel - When you say "set up buttons in Excel in order to open modules" - you mean to press a button in the workbook to open up the VBE so you can see the code in that module, or do you mean to assign code to run when the button is pressed? As you have noticed. There are gobs of little syntax issues between Access VBA and Excel VBA. For all things Excel - you can also try the Excel-L (or Excel G) lists. They are very responsive and help. Been subbed for years on both (decades actually). G is usually for basic questions (How do I apply a Conditional Format - that sort of thing) L is for more prickly advanced issues and code stuff Naturally there is a wide grey area in that sort of classification. Many folks are subbed to both so only post to one or the other. X-posting is not necessary or appreciated. The EXCEL-L list is hosted on L-Soft international's LISTSERV(R) software running on Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2. For subscription/signoff info and archives, see http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/excel-l.html . Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 6:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? All, I really like the DoCmd.OpenModule when developing in Access. Recently I have started a large project that is going to be using Excel. I have very little experience with Excel VBA. It appears that DoCmd.OpenModule will not work with Excel VBA. Is there another way to set up buttons in Excel in order to open modules? I know that this is really an Excel question and not an Access question, but I thought that someone in this group may have run into this before. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 09:29:49 2014 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 07:29:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: <33ba042575f14fa5b8002c515a236825@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net> <002a01cfaf40$a08c22e0$e1a468a0$@cox.net> <7c836e077fe4416ba874add88e5542d8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <1411092700474.50643@blackforestltd.com> <15457955da064da5a31a6afdfabb967e@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <33ba042575f14fa5b8002c515a236825@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Brad, Are you wanting to do this from form view or design view? In design view you already have a button on the ribbon to view code, which takes you directly to the code module for the form or report. And the property sheet events will allow you to go directly to the control code. What exactly are you trying to accomplish with these "buttons"? Charlotte On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 6:09 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > Darryl, > > Over the past couple years, I have worked on a several Access applications > that had many many modules. I found it to be very handy to have buttons on > a form to more quickly view the VBA code (via DoCmd.OpenModule). I know > that there are other ways to get at the code, but this method seems faster. > > I am now starting a project in Excel which is going to also have many > modules. I was hoping to use the DoCmd.OpenModule command to do the same > thing in Excel, but this command is not available in Excel. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for > Excel ? > > Pressing "Alt-F11" doesn't do the job? That will open the VBE and show > you all the related code. > > If you are working with an object (say a button) you can right mouse click > > 'Assign Macro' > 'Edit...'. That will take you directly to the > underlying code for that object. > > Not sure why you need a button on the worksheet to get to the VBE (?) I > probably don't completely understand what your needs are with this. > > Regards > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 12:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for > Excel ? > > Darryl, > > I would like to push a button to open up the VBE and see the code in a > module. > > Thanks, > Brad > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com < > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> on behalf of Darryl Collins < > darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 7:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for > Excel ? > > Hi Brad, > > I work mostly with Excel - When you say "set up buttons in Excel in order > to open modules" - you mean to press a button in the workbook to open up > the VBE so you can see the code in that module, or do you mean to assign > code to run when the button is pressed? > > As you have noticed. There are gobs of little syntax issues between > Access VBA and Excel VBA. > > For all things Excel - you can also try the Excel-L (or Excel G) lists. > They are very responsive and help. Been subbed for years on both (decades > actually). > > G is usually for basic questions (How do I apply a Conditional Format - > that sort of thing) L is for more prickly advanced issues and code stuff > > Naturally there is a wide grey area in that sort of classification. Many > folks are subbed to both so only post to one or the other. X-posting is not > necessary or appreciated. > > The EXCEL-L list is hosted on L-Soft international's LISTSERV(R) software > running on Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2. > For subscription/signoff info and archives, see > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/excel-l.html . > > Cheers > Darryl > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 6:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for > Excel ? > > All, > > I really like the DoCmd.OpenModule when developing in Access. > > Recently I have started a large project that is going to be using Excel. > I have very little experience with Excel VBA. > > It appears that DoCmd.OpenModule will not work with Excel VBA. Is there > another way to set up buttons in Excel in order to open modules? > > I know that this is really an Excel question and not an Access question, > but I thought that someone in this group may have run into this before. > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bradm at blackforestltd.com Fri Sep 19 09:54:04 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 14:54:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net> <002a01cfaf40$a08c22e0$e1a468a0$@cox.net> <7c836e077fe4416ba874add88e5542d8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <1411092700474.50643@blackforestltd.com> <15457955da064da5a31a6afdfabb967e@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <33ba042575f14fa5b8002c515a236825@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <8dcced4d5fef4d2896194e2b049967e8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Charlotte, I have an Access application that has 80+ VBA modules. When I was developing this application, I found it very handy to have an Access form that had buttons that would make the VBA code visible via the DoCmd.OpenModule command. I used this approach a lot because it made my work easier. Now, I would like to do the same thing with a large Excel application, but the DoCmd.OpenModule command is not available in Excel. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 9:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? Brad, Are you wanting to do this from form view or design view? In design view you already have a button on the ribbon to view code, which takes you directly to the code module for the form or report. And the property sheet events will allow you to go directly to the control code. What exactly are you trying to accomplish with these "buttons"? Charlotte On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 6:09 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > Darryl, > > Over the past couple years, I have worked on a several Access > applications that had many many modules. I found it to be very handy > to have buttons on a form to more quickly view the VBA code (via > DoCmd.OpenModule). I know that there are other ways to get at the code, but this method seems faster. > > I am now starting a project in Excel which is going to also have many > modules. I was hoping to use the DoCmd.OpenModule command to do the > same thing in Excel, but this command is not available in Excel. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar > for Excel ? > > Pressing "Alt-F11" doesn't do the job? That will open the VBE and > show you all the related code. > > If you are working with an object (say a button) you can right mouse > click > > 'Assign Macro' > 'Edit...'. That will take you directly to the > underlying code for that object. > > Not sure why you need a button on the worksheet to get to the VBE (?) > I probably don't completely understand what your needs are with this. > > Regards > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 12:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar > for Excel ? > > Darryl, > > I would like to push a button to open up the VBE and see the code in a > module. > > Thanks, > Brad > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com < > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> on behalf of Darryl Collins < > darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 7:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for > Excel ? > > Hi Brad, > > I work mostly with Excel - When you say "set up buttons in Excel in > order to open modules" - you mean to press a button in the workbook to > open up the VBE so you can see the code in that module, or do you mean > to assign code to run when the button is pressed? > > As you have noticed. There are gobs of little syntax issues between > Access VBA and Excel VBA. > > For all things Excel - you can also try the Excel-L (or Excel G) lists. > They are very responsive and help. Been subbed for years on both > (decades actually). > > G is usually for basic questions (How do I apply a Conditional Format > - that sort of thing) L is for more prickly advanced issues and code > stuff > > Naturally there is a wide grey area in that sort of classification. > Many folks are subbed to both so only post to one or the other. > X-posting is not necessary or appreciated. > > The EXCEL-L list is hosted on L-Soft international's LISTSERV(R) > software running on Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2. > For subscription/signoff info and archives, see > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/excel-l.html . > > Cheers > Darryl > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 6:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for > Excel ? > > All, > > I really like the DoCmd.OpenModule when developing in Access. > > Recently I have started a large project that is going to be using Excel. > I have very little experience with Excel VBA. > > It appears that DoCmd.OpenModule will not work with Excel VBA. Is > there another way to set up buttons in Excel in order to open modules? > > I know that this is really an Excel question and not an Access > question, but I thought that someone in this group may have run into this before. > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at outlook.com Fri Sep 19 10:15:11 2014 From: df.waters at outlook.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:15:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: <8dcced4d5fef4d2896194e2b049967e8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net> <002a01cfaf40$a08c22e0$e1a468a0$@cox.net> <7c836e077fe4416ba874add88e5542d8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <1411092700474.50643@blackforestltd.com> <15457955da064da5a31a6afdfabb967e@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <33ba042575f14fa5b8002c515a236825@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <8dcced4d5fef4d2896194e2b049967e8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi Brad, You could try the built-in Run function like this: Application.Run "Macro1", "Argument1", "Argument2" Look up Run in Excel help for full info. Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 9:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? Charlotte, I have an Access application that has 80+ VBA modules. When I was developing this application, I found it very handy to have an Access form that had buttons that would make the VBA code visible via the DoCmd.OpenModule command. I used this approach a lot because it made my work easier. Now, I would like to do the same thing with a large Excel application, but the DoCmd.OpenModule command is not available in Excel. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 9:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? Brad, Are you wanting to do this from form view or design view? In design view you already have a button on the ribbon to view code, which takes you directly to the code module for the form or report. And the property sheet events will allow you to go directly to the control code. What exactly are you trying to accomplish with these "buttons"? Charlotte On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 6:09 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > Darryl, > > Over the past couple years, I have worked on a several Access > applications that had many many modules. I found it to be very handy > to have buttons on a form to more quickly view the VBA code (via > DoCmd.OpenModule). I know that there are other ways to get at the code, but this method seems faster. > > I am now starting a project in Excel which is going to also have many > modules. I was hoping to use the DoCmd.OpenModule command to do the > same thing in Excel, but this command is not available in Excel. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar > for Excel ? > > Pressing "Alt-F11" doesn't do the job? That will open the VBE and > show you all the related code. > > If you are working with an object (say a button) you can right mouse > click > > 'Assign Macro' > 'Edit...'. That will take you directly to the > underlying code for that object. > > Not sure why you need a button on the worksheet to get to the VBE (?) > I probably don't completely understand what your needs are with this. > > Regards > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 12:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar > for Excel ? > > Darryl, > > I would like to push a button to open up the VBE and see the code in a > module. > > Thanks, > Brad > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com < > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> on behalf of Darryl Collins < > darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 7:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for > Excel ? > > Hi Brad, > > I work mostly with Excel - When you say "set up buttons in Excel in > order to open modules" - you mean to press a button in the workbook to > open up the VBE so you can see the code in that module, or do you mean > to assign code to run when the button is pressed? > > As you have noticed. There are gobs of little syntax issues between > Access VBA and Excel VBA. > > For all things Excel - you can also try the Excel-L (or Excel G) lists. > They are very responsive and help. Been subbed for years on both > (decades actually). > > G is usually for basic questions (How do I apply a Conditional Format > - that sort of thing) L is for more prickly advanced issues and code > stuff > > Naturally there is a wide grey area in that sort of classification. > Many folks are subbed to both so only post to one or the other. > X-posting is not necessary or appreciated. > > The EXCEL-L list is hosted on L-Soft international's LISTSERV(R) > software running on Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2. > For subscription/signoff info and archives, see > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/excel-l.html . > > Cheers > Darryl > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 6:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for > Excel ? > > All, > > I really like the DoCmd.OpenModule when developing in Access. > > Recently I have started a large project that is going to be using Excel. > I have very little experience with Excel VBA. > > It appears that DoCmd.OpenModule will not work with Excel VBA. Is > there another way to set up buttons in Excel in order to open modules? > > I know that this is really an Excel question and not an Access > question, but I thought that someone in this group may have run into this before. > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 19:45:36 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:45:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: <8dcced4d5fef4d2896194e2b049967e8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net> <002a01cfaf40$a08c22e0$e1a468a0$@cox.net> <7c836e077fe4416ba874add88e5542d8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <1411092700474.50643@blackforestltd.com> <15457955da064da5a31a6afdfabb967e@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <33ba042575f14fa5b8002c515a236825@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <8dcced4d5fef4d2896194e2b049967e8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Brad it is even easier with Excel (unless you can do this in Access)... add a reference to Microsoft VBA Extensibility 5.1 (?). That reference gives you an object model to play with that is everything you need. If you put it in an Addin, it will always be there for you to pick away at any workbook's VBAPROJECT (unless locked for viewing). You can loop the vbcomponents within a vbproject, and read the lines, parse as display code on sheets. It doesn't pop open the vba code modules (like View Code) but can show you anything in any of them, and you can build userforms and populate drop downs or sheets that look almost like the vba ide if you wanted to. Not that I would ever take the time to reinvent the wheel, but the learning curve in this might show you how to read/write dynamic vba in the future and that know-how might benefit during another show. On Sep 19, 2014 10:57 AM, "Brad Marks" wrote: > Charlotte, > > I have an Access application that has 80+ VBA modules. When I was > developing this application, I found it very handy to have an Access form > that had buttons that would make the VBA code visible via the > DoCmd.OpenModule command. I used this approach a lot because it made my > work easier. > > Now, I would like to do the same thing with a large Excel application, but > the DoCmd.OpenModule command is not available in Excel. > > Thanks, > Brad > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 9:30 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for > Excel ? > > Brad, > > Are you wanting to do this from form view or design view? In design view > you already have a button on the ribbon to view code, which takes you > directly to the code module for the form or report. And the property sheet > events will allow you to go directly to the control code. What exactly are > you trying to accomplish with these "buttons"? > > Charlotte > > On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 6:09 AM, Brad Marks > wrote: > > > Darryl, > > > > Over the past couple years, I have worked on a several Access > > applications that had many many modules. I found it to be very handy > > to have buttons on a form to more quickly view the VBA code (via > > DoCmd.OpenModule). I know that there are other ways to get at the code, > but this method seems faster. > > > > I am now starting a project in Excel which is going to also have many > > modules. I was hoping to use the DoCmd.OpenModule command to do the > > same thing in Excel, but this command is not available in Excel. > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:05 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar > > for Excel ? > > > > Pressing "Alt-F11" doesn't do the job? That will open the VBE and > > show you all the related code. > > > > If you are working with an object (say a button) you can right mouse > > click > > > 'Assign Macro' > 'Edit...'. That will take you directly to the > > underlying code for that object. > > > > Not sure why you need a button on the worksheet to get to the VBE (?) > > I probably don't completely understand what your needs are with this. > > > > Regards > > Darryl. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > > Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 12:12 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar > > for Excel ? > > > > Darryl, > > > > I would like to push a button to open up the VBE and see the code in a > > module. > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > ________________________________________ > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com < > > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> on behalf of Darryl Collins < > > darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> > > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 7:58 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar > for > > Excel ? > > > > Hi Brad, > > > > I work mostly with Excel - When you say "set up buttons in Excel in > > order to open modules" - you mean to press a button in the workbook to > > open up the VBE so you can see the code in that module, or do you mean > > to assign code to run when the button is pressed? > > > > As you have noticed. There are gobs of little syntax issues between > > Access VBA and Excel VBA. > > > > For all things Excel - you can also try the Excel-L (or Excel G) lists. > > They are very responsive and help. Been subbed for years on both > > (decades actually). > > > > G is usually for basic questions (How do I apply a Conditional Format > > - that sort of thing) L is for more prickly advanced issues and code > > stuff > > > > Naturally there is a wide grey area in that sort of classification. > > Many folks are subbed to both so only post to one or the other. > > X-posting is not necessary or appreciated. > > > > The EXCEL-L list is hosted on L-Soft international's LISTSERV(R) > > software running on Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2. > > For subscription/signoff info and archives, see > > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/excel-l.html . > > > > Cheers > > Darryl > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks > > Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 6:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for > > Excel ? > > > > All, > > > > I really like the DoCmd.OpenModule when developing in Access. > > > > Recently I have started a large project that is going to be using Excel. > > I have very little experience with Excel VBA. > > > > It appears that DoCmd.OpenModule will not work with Excel VBA. Is > > there another way to set up buttons in Excel in order to open modules? > > > > I know that this is really an Excel question and not an Access > > question, but I thought that someone in this group may have run into > this before. > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Sep 23 12:58:37 2014 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 21:58:37 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?DoCmd=2EOpenModule_for_Access_-_Something_sim?= =?utf-8?q?ilar_for_Excel_=3F?= In-Reply-To: <8dcced4d5fef4d2896194e2b049967e8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net> <8dcced4d5fef4d2896194e2b049967e8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <1411495117.727479521@f65.i.mail.ru> Brad -- 1. Regarding your question - in P.S. of this posting you'll find a code sample to start with. Watch line wraps! I have used it with Excel 13, 'Option Explicit' and I have set a reference to? Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications Extensibility 5.3 -> C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\VBA\VBA6\VBE6EXT.OLB You can remove 'Option Explicit' and use late binding with Object variables - the code sample should still work well. 2. Regarding 80 modules in MS Excel VBA application: last time (10 years ago) when I used large MS Excel VBA project it had 20-30 modules and it was MS Excel 2003, and I found it loading very slowly, and then "one fine day" it started to fall down on load (opening MS Excel file with 20-30 modules) - the only "solution" was to export all modules into text files and import them back. But after a few edits/saves, the "fall down story" repeated. Be careful. But I must note I have used quite a few class modules not just ordinary vba modules.? 3. Honestly I was surprised that there exists still a demand on so intensive Excel/VBA development, why not consider using Visual Studio VB.NET/C# for MS Excel Automation??When I converted my Excel/VBA project with 20-30 modules into a VB.NET project's COM add-in it started to work very smoothly, and of course large VB.NET (Visual Studio) projects do not fall down (as often as) large Excel/VBA project do. 4. If you're brave enough to anyway go with 80 modules for your MS Excel VBA project I'd note that your case would be a good candidate for one or more Susan Harkin's articles in 'Tech.Republic" and I and/or other AccessD members might help you with coding your utility (VBA modules managing) procedures accompanying these articles :) Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Option Explicit Public Sub TestLocateVbaProcedure() Dim projectFileName As String Dim projectVbaModuleName As String Dim vbaProcedureName As String projectFileName = "Book1.xlsm" projectVbaModuleName = "ThisWorkbook" ' "Sheet1" vbaProcedureName = "myTestProcedure2" LocateVbaProcedure projectFileName, projectVbaModuleName, vbaProcedureName End Sub Public Sub LocateVbaProcedure( _ ByVal projectFileName As String, _ ByVal projectVbaModuleName As String, _ ByVal vbaProcedureName As String) Dim vbeProjectInstance As VBIDE.VBProject Dim vbaCodeModule As VBIDE.CodeModule Dim vbaProcedureStartLineNimber As Integer Dim vbaCodePane As VBIDE.codePane Set vbeProjectInstance = getVBProjectInstanceByFileName(projectFileName) Set vbaCodeModule = vbeProjectInstance.VBComponents(projectVbaModuleName).CodeModule vbaProcedureStartLineNimber = vbaCodeModule.ProcStartLine(vbaProcedureName, 0) Set vbaCodePane = vbaCodeModule.codePane vbaCodePane.Show vbaCodePane.SetSelection vbaProcedureStartLineNimber, 1, vbaProcedureStartLineNimber, 1 End Sub Private Function getVBProjectInstanceByFileName(ByVal projectFileName As String) As VBIDE.VBProject Dim vbeProjectInstance As VBIDE.VBProject For Each vbeProjectInstance In Excel.Application.VBE.VBProjects If (VBA.InStr(vbeProjectInstance.Filename, projectFileName)) Then Set getVBProjectInstanceByFileName = vbeProjectInstance Exit Function End If Next vbeProjectInstance End Function ? Fri, 19 Sep 2014 14:54:04 +0000 from Brad Marks : >Charlotte, > >I have an Access application that has 80+ VBA modules. When I was developing this application, I found it very handy to have an Access form that had buttons that would make the VBA code visible via the >DoCmd.OpenModule command. I used this approach a lot because it made my work easier. > >Now, I would like to do the same thing with a large Excel application, but the DoCmd.OpenModule command is not available in Excel. > >Thanks, >Brad <<< skipped >>> > From bradm at blackforestltd.com Tue Sep 23 15:09:29 2014 From: bradm at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 20:09:29 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: <1411495117.727479521@f65.i.mail.ru> References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net> <8dcced4d5fef4d2896194e2b049967e8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <1411495117.727479521@f65.i.mail.ru> Message-ID: Shamil, Thanks for the advice and thanks for the code. This is my first attempt to use Excel to build a large application. I am a little concerned about pushing Excel beyond what it can do. I work part time for a small manufacturing firm with a very limited budget. I currently do not have access to Visual Studio. My only tools as MS Access, MS Excel, and some open source (free) things. The Excel project that I have started to work on is being built to simplify how "outside" Excel spreadsheets are handled. These Excel files are sent to us in a wide variety of formats. Currently there is a labor intensive manual process to make these spreadsheets into an Excel file with a common definition. This will be replaced by a new "semi automated" process using an Excel "Menu" form and numerous VBA modules. So far progress has been good, but I have a long ways to go. Thanks again for the help, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 12:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? Brad -- 1. Regarding your question - in P.S. of this posting you'll find a code sample to start with. Watch line wraps! I have used it with Excel 13, 'Option Explicit' and I have set a reference to? Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications Extensibility 5.3 -> C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\VBA\VBA6\VBE6EXT.OLB You can remove 'Option Explicit' and use late binding with Object variables - the code sample should still work well. 2. Regarding 80 modules in MS Excel VBA application: last time (10 years ago) when I used large MS Excel VBA project it had 20-30 modules and it was MS Excel 2003, and I found it loading very slowly, and then "one fine day" it started to fall down on load (opening MS Excel file with 20-30 modules) - the only "solution" was to export all modules into text files and import them back. But after a few edits/saves, the "fall down story" repeated. Be careful. But I must note I have used quite a few class modules not just ordinary vba modules.? 3. Honestly I was surprised that there exists still a demand on so intensive Excel/VBA development, why not consider using Visual Studio VB.NET/C# for MS Excel Automation??When I converted my Excel/VBA project with 20-30 modules into a VB.NET project's COM add-in it started to work very smoothly, and of course large VB.NET (Visual Studio) projects do not fall down (as often as) large Excel/VBA project do. 4. If you're brave enough to anyway go with 80 modules for your MS Excel VBA project I'd note that your case would be a good candidate for one or more Susan Harkin's articles in 'Tech.Republic" and I and/or other AccessD members might help you with coding your utility (VBA modules managing) procedures accompanying these articles :) Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Option Explicit Public Sub TestLocateVbaProcedure() Dim projectFileName As String Dim projectVbaModuleName As String Dim vbaProcedureName As String projectFileName = "Book1.xlsm" projectVbaModuleName = "ThisWorkbook" ' "Sheet1" vbaProcedureName = "myTestProcedure2" LocateVbaProcedure projectFileName, projectVbaModuleName, vbaProcedureName End Sub Public Sub LocateVbaProcedure( _ ByVal projectFileName As String, _ ByVal projectVbaModuleName As String, _ ByVal vbaProcedureName As String) Dim vbeProjectInstance As VBIDE.VBProject Dim vbaCodeModule As VBIDE.CodeModule Dim vbaProcedureStartLineNimber As Integer Dim vbaCodePane As VBIDE.codePane Set vbeProjectInstance = getVBProjectInstanceByFileName(projectFileName) Set vbaCodeModule = vbeProjectInstance.VBComponents(projectVbaModuleName).CodeModule vbaProcedureStartLineNimber = vbaCodeModule.ProcStartLine(vbaProcedureName, 0) Set vbaCodePane = vbaCodeModule.codePane vbaCodePane.Show vbaCodePane.SetSelection vbaProcedureStartLineNimber, 1, vbaProcedureStartLineNimber, 1 End Sub Private Function getVBProjectInstanceByFileName(ByVal projectFileName As String) As VBIDE.VBProject Dim vbeProjectInstance As VBIDE.VBProject For Each vbeProjectInstance In Excel.Application.VBE.VBProjects If (VBA.InStr(vbeProjectInstance.Filename, projectFileName)) Then Set getVBProjectInstanceByFileName = vbeProjectInstance Exit Function End If Next vbeProjectInstance End Function ? Fri, 19 Sep 2014 14:54:04 +0000 from Brad Marks : >Charlotte, > >I have an Access application that has 80+ VBA modules. When I was >developing this application, I found it very handy to have an Access form that had buttons that would make the VBA code visible via the DoCmd.OpenModule command. I used this approach a lot because it made my work easier. > >Now, I would like to do the same thing with a large Excel application, but the DoCmd.OpenModule command is not available in Excel. > >Thanks, >Brad <<< skipped >>> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 16:14:52 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:14:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net> <8dcced4d5fef4d2896194e2b049967e8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <1411495117.727479521@f65.i.mail.ru> Message-ID: There is no terrible harm splitting an excel application into two or three. On Sep 23, 2014 4:12 PM, "Brad Marks" wrote: > Shamil, > > Thanks for the advice and thanks for the code. > > This is my first attempt to use Excel to build a large application. I am a > little concerned about pushing Excel beyond what it can do. > > I work part time for a small manufacturing firm with a very limited > budget. I currently do not have access to Visual Studio. > > My only tools as MS Access, MS Excel, and some open source (free) things. > > The Excel project that I have started to work on is being built to > simplify how "outside" Excel spreadsheets are handled. These Excel files > are sent to us in a wide variety of formats. Currently there is a labor > intensive manual process to make these spreadsheets into an Excel file with > a common definition. This will be replaced by a new "semi automated" > process using an Excel "Menu" form and numerous VBA modules. > > So far progress has been good, but I have a long ways to go. > > Thanks again for the help, > Brad > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 12:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for > Excel ? > > Brad -- > > 1. Regarding your question - in P.S. of this posting you'll find a code > sample to start with. Watch line wraps! I have used it with Excel 13, > 'Option Explicit' and I have set a reference to > > Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications Extensibility 5.3 -> C:\Program > Files (x86)\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\VBA\VBA6\VBE6EXT.OLB You can > remove 'Option Explicit' and use late binding with Object variables - the > code sample should still work well. > > 2. Regarding 80 modules in MS Excel VBA application: last time (10 years > ago) when I used large MS Excel VBA project it had 20-30 modules and it was > MS Excel 2003, and I found it loading very slowly, and then "one fine day" > it started to fall down on load (opening MS Excel file with 20-30 modules) > - the only "solution" was to export all modules into text files and import > them back. But after a few edits/saves, the "fall down story" repeated. Be > careful. But I must note I have used quite a few class modules not just > ordinary vba modules. > > 3. Honestly I was surprised that there exists still a demand on so > intensive Excel/VBA development, why not consider using Visual Studio > VB.NET/C# for MS Excel Automation? When I converted my Excel/VBA project > with 20-30 modules into a VB.NET project's COM add-in it started to work > very smoothly, and of course large VB.NET (Visual Studio) projects do not > fall down (as often as) large Excel/VBA project do. > > 4. If you're brave enough to anyway go with 80 modules for your MS Excel > VBA project I'd note that your case would be a good candidate for one or > more Susan Harkin's articles in 'Tech.Republic" and I and/or other AccessD > members might help you with coding your utility (VBA modules managing) > procedures accompanying these articles :) > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > P.S. > > Option Explicit > Public Sub TestLocateVbaProcedure() > Dim projectFileName As String > Dim projectVbaModuleName As String > Dim vbaProcedureName As String > > projectFileName = "Book1.xlsm" > projectVbaModuleName = "ThisWorkbook" ' "Sheet1" > vbaProcedureName = "myTestProcedure2" > LocateVbaProcedure projectFileName, projectVbaModuleName, vbaProcedureName > End Sub Public Sub LocateVbaProcedure( _ ByVal projectFileName As String, _ > ByVal projectVbaModuleName As String, _ ByVal vbaProcedureName As String) > > Dim vbeProjectInstance As VBIDE.VBProject Dim vbaCodeModule As > VBIDE.CodeModule Dim vbaProcedureStartLineNimber As Integer Dim vbaCodePane > As VBIDE.codePane > > Set vbeProjectInstance = getVBProjectInstanceByFileName(projectFileName) > Set vbaCodeModule = > vbeProjectInstance.VBComponents(projectVbaModuleName).CodeModule > vbaProcedureStartLineNimber = > vbaCodeModule.ProcStartLine(vbaProcedureName, 0) Set vbaCodePane = > vbaCodeModule.codePane vbaCodePane.Show vbaCodePane.SetSelection > vbaProcedureStartLineNimber, 1, vbaProcedureStartLineNimber, 1 End Sub > Private Function getVBProjectInstanceByFileName(ByVal projectFileName As > String) As VBIDE.VBProject Dim vbeProjectInstance As VBIDE.VBProject For > Each vbeProjectInstance In Excel.Application.VBE.VBProjects If > (VBA.InStr(vbeProjectInstance.Filename, projectFileName)) Then Set > getVBProjectInstanceByFileName = vbeProjectInstance Exit Function End If > Next vbeProjectInstance End Function > > > > Fri, 19 Sep 2014 14:54:04 +0000 from Brad Marks >: > >Charlotte, > > > >I have an Access application that has 80+ VBA modules. When I was > >developing this application, I found it very handy to have an Access form > that had buttons that would make the VBA code visible via the > DoCmd.OpenModule command. I used this approach a lot because it made my > work easier. > > > >Now, I would like to do the same thing with a large Excel application, > but the DoCmd.OpenModule command is not available in Excel. > > > >Thanks, > >Brad > <<< skipped >>> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Sep 23 16:23:25 2014 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 01:23:25 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?DoCmd=2EOpenModule_for_Access_-_Something_sim?= =?utf-8?q?ilar_for_Excel_=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net> <1411495117.727479521@f65.i.mail.ru> Message-ID: <1411507405.929363665@f278.i.mail.ru> Brad ?-- You can use free Visual Studio Express. If you have to develop mainly code for "data crunching/reformatting" ?from "a wide variety of formats" into MS Excel readable (CSV?) files then using VB.NET/C# together with .NET Framework built-in features + many open sources libs would be a snap comparing to the usual VBA development. If you still prefer to use VBA try first ?to make a test project with 80 modules to see how well it will work: the difficulties of handling large Excel 2003/VBA project (actually getting into a "dead end state" after a couple of month of work) are comparable IMO to a learning curve for VB.NET. -- Shamil Tue, 23 Sep 2014 20:09:29 +0000 from Brad Marks : >Shamil, > >Thanks for the advice and thanks for the code. > >This is my first attempt to use Excel to build a large application. I am a little concerned about pushing Excel beyond what it can do. > >I work part time for a small manufacturing firm with a very limited budget. I currently do not have access to Visual Studio. > >My only tools as MS Access, MS Excel, and some open source (free) things. > >The Excel project that I have started to work on is being built to simplify how "outside" Excel spreadsheets are handled. These Excel files are sent to us in a wide variety of formats. Currently there is a labor intensive manual process to make these spreadsheets into an Excel file with a common definition. This will be replaced by a new "semi automated" process using an Excel "Menu" form and numerous VBA modules. > >So far progress has been good, but I have a long ways to go. > >Thanks again for the help, >Brad > > >???? > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil >Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 12:59 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? > >?Brad -- > >1. Regarding your question - in P.S. of this posting you'll find a code sample to start with. Watch line wraps! I have used it with Excel 13, 'Option Explicit' and I have set a reference to? > >Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications Extensibility 5.3 -> C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\VBA\VBA6\VBE6EXT.OLB You can remove 'Option Explicit' and use late binding with Object variables - the code sample should still work well. > >2. Regarding 80 modules in MS Excel VBA application: last time (10 years ago) when I used large MS Excel VBA project it had 20-30 modules and it was MS Excel 2003, and I found it loading very slowly, and then "one fine day" it started to fall down on load (opening MS Excel file with 20-30 modules) - the only "solution" was to export all modules into text files and import them back. But after a few edits/saves, the "fall down story" repeated. Be careful. But I must note I have used quite a few class modules not just ordinary vba modules.? > >3. Honestly I was surprised that there exists still a demand on so intensive Excel/VBA development, why not consider using Visual Studio VB.NET/C# for MS Excel Automation??When I converted my Excel/VBA project with 20-30 modules into a VB.NET project's COM add-in it started to work very smoothly, and of course large VB.NET (Visual Studio) projects do not fall down (as often as) large Excel/VBA project do. > >4. If you're brave enough to anyway go with 80 modules for your MS Excel VBA project I'd note that your case would be a good candidate for one or more Susan Harkin's articles in 'Tech.Republic" and I and/or other AccessD members might help you with coding your utility (VBA modules managing) procedures accompanying these articles :) > >Thank you. > >-- Shamil > > >P.S. > >Option Explicit >Public Sub TestLocateVbaProcedure() >Dim projectFileName As String >Dim projectVbaModuleName As String >Dim vbaProcedureName As String > >projectFileName = "Book1.xlsm" >projectVbaModuleName = "ThisWorkbook" ' "Sheet1" >vbaProcedureName = "myTestProcedure2" >LocateVbaProcedure projectFileName, projectVbaModuleName, vbaProcedureName End Sub Public Sub LocateVbaProcedure( _ ByVal projectFileName As String, _ ByVal projectVbaModuleName As String, _ ByVal vbaProcedureName As String) > >Dim vbeProjectInstance As VBIDE.VBProject Dim vbaCodeModule As VBIDE.CodeModule Dim vbaProcedureStartLineNimber As Integer Dim vbaCodePane As VBIDE.codePane > >Set vbeProjectInstance = getVBProjectInstanceByFileName(projectFileName) >Set vbaCodeModule = vbeProjectInstance.VBComponents(projectVbaModuleName).CodeModule >vbaProcedureStartLineNimber = vbaCodeModule.ProcStartLine(vbaProcedureName, 0) Set vbaCodePane = vbaCodeModule.codePane vbaCodePane.Show vbaCodePane.SetSelection vbaProcedureStartLineNimber, 1, vbaProcedureStartLineNimber, 1 End Sub Private Function getVBProjectInstanceByFileName(ByVal projectFileName As String) As VBIDE.VBProject Dim vbeProjectInstance As VBIDE.VBProject For Each vbeProjectInstance In Excel.Application.VBE.VBProjects If (VBA.InStr(vbeProjectInstance.Filename, projectFileName)) Then Set getVBProjectInstanceByFileName = vbeProjectInstance Exit Function End If Next vbeProjectInstance End Function >? > > >Fri, 19 Sep 2014 14:54:04 +0000 from Brad Marks < bradm at blackforestltd.com >: >>Charlotte, >> >>I have an Access application that has 80+ VBA modules. When I was >>developing this application, I found it very handy to have an Access form that had buttons that would make the VBA code visible via the DoCmd.OpenModule command. I used this approach a lot because it made my work easier. >> >>Now, I would like to do the same thing with a large Excel application, but the DoCmd.OpenModule command is not available in Excel. >> >>Thanks, >>Brad ><<< skipped >>> >> >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Sep 23 18:44:21 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 09:44:21 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: <1411495117.727479521@f65.i.mail.ru> References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net><8dcced4d5fef4d2896194e2b049967e8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <1411495117.727479521@f65.i.mail.ru> Message-ID: <1B6B428D53D2406BA12939FEC274F920@3QLLSGPVF27UM> Hi Brad and Shamil, On the other side of the coin, I have built many Excel workbooks with 80+ modules that have been extensively used in the past without issue. Indeed I usually find Excel a lot more stable and well behaved than Access in the long term - but that is just my experience and I am in no way discounting Shamil's comments here. I understand he has gobs of experience and knowledge and I respect his opinion. Occasionally Excel will go corrupt and you need to rebuild it - but that is unusual. There is an undocumented issue with VBA modules that if they are a certain size (being roughly 64 KB in size when exported to text) - this can cause Excel to behave strangely and/or crash - So you are better off having many smaller modules than a few big ones. Indeed I tend to have a lot of modules as I generally put each logical step or function into a single module - this is part of the reason I end up with a lot of modules, on the flip side - this makes them easy to reuse in other workbooks and can speed up development times considerably. As for working with Excel VBA vs Visual Studio. Whilst VS is wonderfully elegant and more advanced to use than VBA - it is often a step too far for the average small business. These are folks who grew up with Lotus 123 macros and generally even basic users know how to record and use a VBA code module. Most of them don't want to know of options outside of MS Office - even SQL Server Express (and usually MS Access) is too complicated for many of them. As weird as it seems to folks like us, many small businesses run their whole operations on Excel, often as a defacto database. Anyway, being an Excel guy I would say "Go for it". The real trick is to use Excel for it strengths (that is as a reporting tool, number masher and scenario outcomes) and not as a primary datastore. That is what a database if for. I personally never use forms in Excel either - I find there is no need for it. Just enter the data directly into the worksheet - faster, easier and more stable. Anyway, if you need any Excel help feel free to ask here, offline on the Excel-L list. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 3:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? Brad -- 1. Regarding your question - in P.S. of this posting you'll find a code sample to start with. Watch line wraps! I have used it with Excel 13, 'Option Explicit' and I have set a reference to Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications Extensibility 5.3 -> C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\VBA\VBA6\VBE6EXT.OLB You can remove 'Option Explicit' and use late binding with Object variables - the code sample should still work well. 2. Regarding 80 modules in MS Excel VBA application: last time (10 years ago) when I used large MS Excel VBA project it had 20-30 modules and it was MS Excel 2003, and I found it loading very slowly, and then "one fine day" it started to fall down on load (opening MS Excel file with 20-30 modules) - the only "solution" was to export all modules into text files and import them back. But after a few edits/saves, the "fall down story" repeated. Be careful. But I must note I have used quite a few class modules not just ordinary vba modules. 3. Honestly I was surprised that there exists still a demand on so intensive Excel/VBA development, why not consider using Visual Studio VB.NET/C# for MS Excel Automation? When I converted my Excel/VBA project with 20-30 modules into a VB.NET project's COM add-in it started to work very smoothly, and of course large VB.NET (Visual Studio) projects do not fall down (as often as) large Excel/VBA project do. 4. If you're brave enough to anyway go with 80 modules for your MS Excel VBA project I'd note that your case would be a good candidate for one or more Susan Harkin's articles in 'Tech.Republic" and I and/or other AccessD members might help you with coding your utility (VBA modules managing) procedures accompanying these articles :) Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Option Explicit Public Sub TestLocateVbaProcedure() Dim projectFileName As String Dim projectVbaModuleName As String Dim vbaProcedureName As String projectFileName = "Book1.xlsm" projectVbaModuleName = "ThisWorkbook" ' "Sheet1" vbaProcedureName = "myTestProcedure2" LocateVbaProcedure projectFileName, projectVbaModuleName, vbaProcedureName End Sub Public Sub LocateVbaProcedure( _ ByVal projectFileName As String, _ ByVal projectVbaModuleName As String, _ ByVal vbaProcedureName As String) Dim vbeProjectInstance As VBIDE.VBProject Dim vbaCodeModule As VBIDE.CodeModule Dim vbaProcedureStartLineNimber As Integer Dim vbaCodePane As VBIDE.codePane Set vbeProjectInstance = getVBProjectInstanceByFileName(projectFileName) Set vbaCodeModule = vbeProjectInstance.VBComponents(projectVbaModuleName).CodeModule vbaProcedureStartLineNimber = vbaCodeModule.ProcStartLine(vbaProcedureName, 0) Set vbaCodePane = vbaCodeModule.codePane vbaCodePane.Show vbaCodePane.SetSelection vbaProcedureStartLineNimber, 1, vbaProcedureStartLineNimber, 1 End Sub Private Function getVBProjectInstanceByFileName(ByVal projectFileName As String) As VBIDE.VBProject Dim vbeProjectInstance As VBIDE.VBProject For Each vbeProjectInstance In Excel.Application.VBE.VBProjects If (VBA.InStr(vbeProjectInstance.Filename, projectFileName)) Then Set getVBProjectInstanceByFileName = vbeProjectInstance Exit Function End If Next vbeProjectInstance End Function Fri, 19 Sep 2014 14:54:04 +0000 from Brad Marks : >Charlotte, > >I have an Access application that has 80+ VBA modules. When I was >developing this application, I found it very handy to have an Access form >that had buttons that would make the VBA code visible via the >DoCmd.OpenModule command. I used this approach a lot because it made my >work easier. > >Now, I would like to do the same thing with a large Excel application, but >the DoCmd.OpenModule command is not available in Excel. > >Thanks, >Brad <<< skipped >>> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Sep 24 03:33:41 2014 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 12:33:41 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?DoCmd=2EOpenModule_for_Access_-_Something_sim?= =?utf-8?q?ilar_for_Excel_=3F?= In-Reply-To: <1B6B428D53D2406BA12939FEC274F920@3QLLSGPVF27UM> References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net> <1411495117.727479521@f65.i.mail.ru> <1B6B428D53D2406BA12939FEC274F920@3QLLSGPVF27UM> Message-ID: <1411547621.327085660@f361.i.mail.ru> Hi Darryl -- Thank you for your remark. Yes, I have just shared my experience with MS Excel 2003 VBA development which was very smooth till I have reached the "concrete wall" of frequent Excel/VBA project crashing with my loosing the results of code edits, no way to restore them without frequent export to text files/reimport into a new Excel/VBA project. That was a bad luck probably and using the "weak part" of MS Excel: I didn't know about 64KB module text size limitation, AFAIKR I have used rather small modules but that were mainly class modules - and some WithEvents - that could have been another undocumented "feature" that MS Excel/VBA Engine are weak in handling this stuff... I'd be interested to know for what kind of reporting solutions.do you and your customer use MS Excel? Are these all kinds of reports or just a (limited) subset of business report types? When developing reporting solutions are you doing a lot of custom VBA development? If yes, is that development mainly consisting of MS Excel Automation/MS Excel reports worksheets formatting or it has also a lot of general purpose "data crunching": talking to the external databases / web services, reformatting their outputs, merging results... Thank you. -- Shamil Wed, 24 Sep 2014 09:44:21 +1000 from Darryl Collins : >Hi Brad and Shamil, > >On the other side of the coin, I have built many Excel workbooks with 80+ >modules that have been extensively used in the past without issue. Indeed I >usually find Excel a lot more stable and well behaved than Access in the >long term - but that is just my experience and I am in no way discounting >Shamil's comments here. I understand he has gobs of experience and >knowledge and I respect his opinion. Occasionally Excel will go corrupt and >you need to rebuild it - but that is unusual. > >There is an undocumented issue with VBA modules that if they are a certain >size (being roughly 64 KB in size when exported to text) - this can cause >Excel to behave strangely and/or crash - So you are better off having many >smaller modules than a few big ones. Indeed I tend to have a lot of modules >as I generally put each logical step or function into a single module - this >is part of the reason I end up with a lot of modules, on the flip side - >this makes them easy to reuse in other workbooks and can speed up >development times considerably. > >As for working with Excel VBA vs Visual Studio. Whilst VS is wonderfully >elegant and more advanced to use than VBA - it is often a step too far for >the average small business. These are folks who grew up with Lotus 123 >macros and generally even basic users know how to record and use a VBA code >module. Most of them don't want to know of options outside of MS Office - >even SQL Server Express (and usually MS Access) is too complicated for many >of them. > >As weird as it seems to folks like us, many small businesses run their whole >operations on Excel, often as a defacto database. > >Anyway, being an Excel guy I would say "Go for it". The real trick is to >use Excel for it strengths (that is as a reporting tool, number masher and >scenario outcomes) and not as a primary datastore. That is what a database >if for. I personally never use forms in Excel either - I find there is no >need for it. Just enter the data directly into the worksheet - faster, >easier and more stable. > >Anyway, if you need any Excel help feel free to ask here, offline on the >Excel-L list. > >Cheers >Darryl. <<< skipped >>> > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 14:05:01 2014 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 12:05:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Delete Query with a join In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, I've been tied up with other things. I ended up getting rid of the join and doing it like this: DELETE [rpt_DMHClaim 15].*, [rpt_DMHClaim 15].EOB_ID FROM [rpt_DMHClaim 15] WHERE ((([rpt_DMHClaim 15].EOB_ID) In (SELECT [MaxOfEOB_ID] FROM [qry 01a rpt_DMHClaim 15 Dupes to be deleted]))); On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 6:59 PM, Bill Benson wrote: > David: get anywhere? > On Aug 28, 2014 10:40 PM, "Bill Benson" wrote: > > > Try > > > > DELETE [rpt_DMHClaim 14].* > > FROM [rpt_DMHClaim 14] > > WHERE Exists > > (SELECT 1 > > FROM [qry 01a rpt_DMHClaim 14 Dupes to be > deleted] > > WHERE [qry 01a rpt_DMHClaim 14 Dupes to be > deleted].ClaimNumber = > > [rpt_DMHClaim 14].ClaimNumber > > AND > > [qry 01a rpt_DMHClaim 14 Dupes to be > deleted].MaxOfEOB_ID = > > [rpt_DMHClaim 14].EOB_ID) > > > > Action queries don't much like joins ad even distinctrow can lead to > > duplicates no? Not sure really. > > > > Got that here: > > > > > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5585732/how-to-delete-in-ms-access-when-using-joins > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Sep 24 21:35:43 2014 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 22:35:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: <1B6B428D53D2406BA12939FEC274F920@3QLLSGPVF27UM> References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net><8dcced4d5fef4d2896194e2b049967e8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <1411495117.727479521@f65.i.mail.ru> <1B6B428D53D2406BA12939FEC274F920@3QLLSGPVF27UM> Message-ID: <045701cfd869$683c9440$38b5bcc0$@net> Sorry to disagree....80 modules ? That's excessive IMHO. My largest app has about a dozen. Also disagree about stability....Excel VBA much less stable than Access VBA. Excel under Citrix or a virtual Windows environment is darn outright unstable.....VBA crashes often. > > On the other side of the coin, I have built many Excel workbooks with > 80+ > modules that have been extensively used in the past without issue. From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 21:51:43 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 22:51:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: <045701cfd869$683c9440$38b5bcc0$@net> References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net><8dcced4d5fef4d2896194e2b049967e8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <1411495117.727479521@f65.i.mail.ru> <1B6B428D53D2406BA12939FEC274F920@3QLLSGPVF27UM> <045701cfd869$683c9440$38b5bcc0$@net> Message-ID: <005e01cfd86b$a4b35470$ee19fd50$@gmail.com> Not sure it is right to say 80 modules is excessive without knowing the application, in particular if, as was suggested elsewhere, some of these are class modules. Every worksheet can have a code module, some workbooks can have hundreds of worksheets - and sometimes there are ActiveX CommandButtons that have their click event within the sheet's code module. So that would be potentially hundreds of sheets. I also remember reading that code for incompatible versions of Excel can be placed into separate code modules and therefore one needs to worry about runtime compilation only in the modules whose procedures are called; presumably testing for version before deciding which proc to call. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 10:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? Sorry to disagree....80 modules ? That's excessive IMHO. My largest app has about a dozen. Also disagree about stability....Excel VBA much less stable than Access VBA. Excel under Citrix or a virtual Windows environment is darn outright unstable.....VBA crashes often. > > On the other side of the coin, I have built many Excel workbooks with > 80+ > modules that have been extensively used in the past without issue. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Wed Sep 24 21:59:22 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 02:59:22 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: <045701cfd869$683c9440$38b5bcc0$@net> References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net><8dcced4d5fef4d2896194e2b049967e8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <1411495117.727479521@f65.i.mail.ru> <1B6B428D53D2406BA12939FEC274F920@3QLLSGPVF27UM> <045701cfd869$683c9440$38b5bcc0$@net> Message-ID: <90a53f005656430d830ed94665b3011a@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Ok... But it depends on what you need Excel to do - and keep in mind that Excel is very versatile and flexible (it greatest strength and weakness) so the possible solutions are pretty much limitless. Who's to say what is 'too big' or not? Some gigs are simple and only need a bit of code, some are very complex and demanding and need a lot more heavy lifting from the VBE. I find it also depends on how robust you need it to be. Generally the more stable and reliable solutions have more code as I write in additional functionality which checks the integrity and self-repairs if necessary. This can add a bit of overhead, but that is better than having something fail out in client land. Anyway. I am not going to get into a 'yours is better than mine' contest. I appreciate your opinion and I was merely sharing my experience. Naturally your mileage will vary. A lot of what is required is driven by the client. As I said, some of them have simple needs and others much less so. For example, the current solution I am working on in my 'day job' has 101 modules and a customised ribbon (XL2010 on W7). It is complex yes, and it needs to be - it does a lot of work behind the scenes, however there are no stability issues caused by the number of modules. Could it be done better? - for sure - for example, this workbook would benefit from using Classes more and arrays less - something I am working on updating as time permits. However the code is very well written. The gentleman who originally wrote this knew how to code elegantly and efficiently. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Thursday, 25 September 2014 12:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? Sorry to disagree....80 modules ? That's excessive IMHO. My largest app has about a dozen. Also disagree about stability....Excel VBA much less stable than Access VBA. Excel under Citrix or a virtual Windows environment is darn outright unstable.....VBA crashes often. > > On the other side of the coin, I have built many Excel workbooks with > 80+ > modules that have been extensively used in the past without issue. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bensonforums at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 22:09:37 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 23:09:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: <90a53f005656430d830ed94665b3011a@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net><8dcced4d5fef4d2896194e2b049967e8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <1411495117.727479521@f65.i.mail.ru> <1B6B428D53D2406BA12939FEC274F920@3QLLSGPVF27UM> <045701cfd869$683c9440$38b5bcc0$@net> <90a53f005656430d830ed94665b3011a@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <00b801cfd86e$246c1920$6d444b60$@gmail.com> >> The gentleman who originally wrote this knew how to code elegantly and efficiently. Darryl, please send me a copy offline. I am starting to hunt now for well written Excel VBA code. I know the stuff I write generally works, but it is spaghetti code and I need to improve. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 10:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? Ok... But it depends on what you need Excel to do - and keep in mind that Excel is very versatile and flexible (it greatest strength and weakness) so the possible solutions are pretty much limitless. Who's to say what is 'too big' or not? Some gigs are simple and only need a bit of code, some are very complex and demanding and need a lot more heavy lifting from the VBE. I find it also depends on how robust you need it to be. Generally the more stable and reliable solutions have more code as I write in additional functionality which checks the integrity and self-repairs if necessary. This can add a bit of overhead, but that is better than having something fail out in client land. Anyway. I am not going to get into a 'yours is better than mine' contest. I appreciate your opinion and I was merely sharing my experience. Naturally your mileage will vary. A lot of what is required is driven by the client. As I said, some of them have simple needs and others much less so. For example, the current solution I am working on in my 'day job' has 101 modules and a customised ribbon (XL2010 on W7). It is complex yes, and it needs to be - it does a lot of work behind the scenes, however there are no stability issues caused by the number of modules. Could it be done better? - for sure - for example, this workbook would benefit from using Classes more and arrays less - something I am working on updating as time permits. However the code is very well written. The gentleman who originally wrote this knew how to code elegantly and efficiently. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Thursday, 25 September 2014 12:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? Sorry to disagree....80 modules ? That's excessive IMHO. My largest app has about a dozen. Also disagree about stability....Excel VBA much less stable than Access VBA. Excel under Citrix or a virtual Windows environment is darn outright unstable.....VBA crashes often. > > On the other side of the coin, I have built many Excel workbooks with > 80+ > modules that have been extensively used in the past without issue. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at aig.com Thu Sep 25 08:25:29 2014 From: Lambert.Heenan at aig.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 13:25:29 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? In-Reply-To: <005e01cfd86b$a4b35470$ee19fd50$@gmail.com> References: <001501cfaea5$78d7f710$6a87e530$@cox.net><8dcced4d5fef4d2896194e2b049967e8@BLUPR0501MB884.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <1411495117.727479521@f65.i.mail.ru> <1B6B428D53D2406BA12939FEC274F920@3QLLSGPVF27UM> <045701cfd869$683c9440$38b5bcc0$@net> <005e01cfd86b$a4b35470$ee19fd50$@gmail.com> Message-ID: What's so great about having just a dozen modules in an app? It's all just code in the end with essentially identical scope. If you choose to *organize* your code by splitting it into many modules then so be it. There's no loss of performance, and it probably makes more sense to the human(s) writing the code. (Just my 2 cents) Lambert Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 10:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? Not sure it is right to say 80 modules is excessive without knowing the application, in particular if, as was suggested elsewhere, some of these are class modules. Every worksheet can have a code module, some workbooks can have hundreds of worksheets - and sometimes there are ActiveX CommandButtons that have their click event within the sheet's code module. So that would be potentially hundreds of sheets. I also remember reading that code for incompatible versions of Excel can be placed into separate code modules and therefore one needs to worry about runtime compilation only in the modules whose procedures are called; presumably testing for version before deciding which proc to call. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 10:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] DoCmd.OpenModule for Access - Something similar for Excel ? Sorry to disagree....80 modules ? That's excessive IMHO. My largest app has about a dozen. Also disagree about stability....Excel VBA much less stable than Access VBA. Excel under Citrix or a virtual Windows environment is darn outright unstable.....VBA crashes often. > > On the other side of the coin, I have built many Excel workbooks with > 80+ > modules that have been extensively used in the past without issue. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 10:06:34 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 11:06:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment Message-ID: The animal tracking database is moving along. It's slow going because it's my lowest priority, but I get a little done most days. Along with each new animal, there will be paperwork -- permits and vet exams that are required by law. The manager would like to scan these and be able to click a button to see them. I can teach her how to do this manually, but it would be great if I could smooth the whole thing around the edges. Have any of you coded this kind of functionality and if so -- what should I keep in mind, watch for -- let's discuss please. :) Thanks! Susan H. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Sep 25 10:27:54 2014 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 08:27:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think you would want to first set up a folder for all the documents. I assume that they'd become pdfs? And all scanned docs go into that folder. Than, add a field to the Animal table for each document you want to store. Make it a hyperlink format. On the animal form, you will have a bound text box, locked but not disabled so the click event will fire. When you hover over it, the pointer will turn into a finger because it's a hyperlink (and it won't be editable. Next to each text box a command button will pop up the file finder (I've got code in the can for that - I still use the Littwin, Getz ADH code for that), and having selected the document, that path and file name goes into the bound text box and the table. And voila! Documents can be popped up with a click on the field. Just be sure that the pdf file type is associated with a pdf reader that's loaded onto the target machine. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment The animal tracking database is moving along. It's slow going because it's my lowest priority, but I get a little done most days. Along with each new animal, there will be paperwork -- permits and vet exams that are required by law. The manager would like to scan these and be able to click a button to see them. I can teach her how to do this manually, but it would be great if I could smooth the whole thing around the edges. Have any of you coded this kind of functionality and if so -- what should I keep in mind, watch for -- let's discuss please. :) Thanks! Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Sep 25 11:45:59 2014 From: jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk (James Button) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 17:45:59 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd adopt a slightly different approach: Allocate a structure of folders for the documents: Grouping the relevant files in a folder with the id of the animal to which the documents in the folder apply. A new table of hyperlinks to the files and a FK link to the primary entry for that animal. There may well be times when a document applies to multiple animals, and for them I would put them into an appropriate folder and create multiple link entries. Yes - it will need a form that allows the user to setup multiple FK entries on a file, having selected the file using a directory~file selection panel. You could also setup a batch type facility to create a list of files in that structure, and present the user with the name of each file that is not already in the appropriate table in the system. Might be nice to have that form present the hyperlink so the user can view the file from the form, and make the appropriate entry in the form before they close the file. It may be appropriate to set permissions on the folder (and subfolders) allowing creation of files but not modification or deletion. It may also be appropriate to include a file versioning key on the table so that a replacement (newer) version of a file can be indicated in the list form that shows documents associated with the animal And - maybe on that selection form allow from~to dates to be set for the files to be extracted, and a further form to show the other FK's of the files that match the specified Animal - as in Animal selected gives PK, find doc entries with that as their FK, and then find all entries with the same hyperlink as those files selected for the Animal >From experience - A major problem with documentation hive is people moving files, renaming them, or opening them for amendment. Follow that with old app software on some systems so those users can't read files created using newer versions of the app - so keep a store of the latest 'readers' for files. Publish a list of 'supported' and acceptable app versions and file types and have a script to check for inappropriate ones. Things like xlsm, docx etc. need consideration as they can include scripts that run as the file is opened by the app. And for more fun - some documents get 'saved' as a cluster of small components, so the number of OS recognised 'files' in the filestore can become large, and need care to retain the structure when doing maintenance and other management tasks. JimB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 4:28 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment I think you would want to first set up a folder for all the documents. I assume that they'd become pdfs? And all scanned docs go into that folder. Than, add a field to the Animal table for each document you want to store. Make it a hyperlink format. On the animal form, you will have a bound text box, locked but not disabled so the click event will fire. When you hover over it, the pointer will turn into a finger because it's a hyperlink (and it won't be editable. Next to each text box a command button will pop up the file finder (I've got code in the can for that - I still use the Littwin, Getz ADH code for that), and having selected the document, that path and file name goes into the bound text box and the table. And voila! Documents can be popped up with a click on the field. Just be sure that the pdf file type is associated with a pdf reader that's loaded onto the target machine. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment The animal tracking database is moving along. It's slow going because it's my lowest priority, but I get a little done most days. Along with each new animal, there will be paperwork -- permits and vet exams that are required by law. The manager would like to scan these and be able to click a button to see them. I can teach her how to do this manually, but it would be great if I could smooth the whole thing around the edges. Have any of you coded this kind of functionality and if so -- what should I keep in mind, watch for -- let's discuss please. :) Thanks! Susan H. -- From jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Sep 25 12:05:19 2014 From: jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk (James Button) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:05:19 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: More considerations: Maybe a commentary field where the user can indicate the source of the file - Frequently documents have codes and signatures, and even the originating facility, but do not include the indication of who sent it on to you, or even if it is an 'authorised', or 'certified' copy. And Where is the original filed, what reference/folder/storage facility and under who's responsibility, as there will be times when electronic copies will not be acceptable. That starts on a whole new table - for the documents received, placed in the store, passed on, copied to, and destroyed etc. along with who did the action, and who logged the entry. Ah! - a whole new administration workload - Empire building yea! JimB From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 13:14:10 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 14:14:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment Message-ID: You're not using the Attachment data type? I haven't asked about the document format. SUsan H. > > Than, add a field to the Animal table for each document you want to store. > Make it a hyperlink format. > > From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 13:35:27 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 14:35:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment Message-ID: > > Well, here's what I had in mind. The users will be smart enough to scan > and copy these files into a specific folder. In the database, I'd like to > offer a button that opens a link dialog so they can find the file and > create the link. Then, I want a button they can click to display it. > Susan H. > > Maybe a commentary field where the user can indicate the source of the > file - > > Frequently documents have codes and signatures, and even the originating > facility, but do not include the indication of who sent it on to you, or > even if > it is an 'authorised', or 'certified' copy. > > And > > Where is the original filed, what reference/folder/storage facility and > under > who's responsibility, as there will be times when electronic copies will > not be > acceptable. > > > That starts on a whole new table - for the documents received, placed in > the > store, passed on, copied to, and destroyed etc. along with who did the > action, > and who logged the entry. > > Ah! - a whole new administration workload - > Empire building yea! > > > JimB > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 14:09:41 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 15:09:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment Message-ID: The new Attachment data type makes this so easy that I'm embarrassed I brought it up... Susan H. On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:05 PM, James Button wrote: > More considerations: > > Maybe a commentary field where the user can indicate the source of the > file - > > Frequently documents have codes and signatures, and even the originating > facility, but do not include the indication of who sent it on to you, or > even if > it is an 'authorised', or 'certified' copy. > > And > > Where is the original filed, what reference/folder/storage facility and > under > who's responsibility, as there will be times when electronic copies will > not be > acceptable. > > > That starts on a whole new table - for the documents received, placed in > the > store, passed on, copied to, and destroyed etc. along with who did the > action, > and who logged the entry. > > Ah! - a whole new administration workload - > Empire building yea! > > > JimB > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Sep 25 14:17:41 2014 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 15:17:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F9E804807E9464FB34031ED7B4B72DB@XPS> Susan, Watch it....the attachment data type and MVF fields are ACE specific; they won't upsize to SQL. It can be a real chore to get the data out again if you move off ACE. Best approach I've always found is to store the docs in a directory and point to the path with an entry in the DB. You can use the follow hyperlink to get it to open in the appropriate app. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 03:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment The new Attachment data type makes this so easy that I'm embarrassed I brought it up... Susan H. On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:05 PM, James Button wrote: > More considerations: > > Maybe a commentary field where the user can indicate the source of the > file - > > Frequently documents have codes and signatures, and even the originating > facility, but do not include the indication of who sent it on to you, or > even if > it is an 'authorised', or 'certified' copy. > > And > > Where is the original filed, what reference/folder/storage facility and > under > who's responsibility, as there will be times when electronic copies will > not be > acceptable. > > > That starts on a whole new table - for the documents received, placed in > the > store, passed on, copied to, and destroyed etc. along with who did the > action, > and who logged the entry. > > Ah! - a whole new administration workload - > Empire building yea! > > > JimB > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Sep 25 17:00:56 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:00:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54249098.5646.23548C50@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I'll say it again. Attachment data types, like Hyperlinks and multivalue fields are the spawn of the devil :-) (I'm sending you a stripped down application with a form that does what you want using conventional data types). -- Stuart On 25 Sep 2014 at 15:09, Susan Harkins wrote: > The new Attachment data type makes this so easy that I'm embarrassed I > brought it up... > > Susan H. > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:05 PM, James Button > wrote: > > > More considerations: > > > > Maybe a commentary field where the user can indicate the source of > > the file - > > > > Frequently documents have codes and signatures, and even the > > originating facility, but do not include the indication of who sent > > it on to you, or even if it is an 'authorised', or 'certified' copy. > > > > And > > > > Where is the original filed, what reference/folder/storage facility > > and under who's responsibility, as there will be times when > > electronic copies will not be acceptable. > > > > > > That starts on a whole new table - for the documents received, > > placed in the store, passed on, copied to, and destroyed etc. along > > with who did the action, and who logged the entry. > > > > Ah! - a whole new administration workload - > > Empire building yea! > > > > > > JimB > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bensonforums at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 01:33:03 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 02:33:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment In-Reply-To: <54249098.5646.23548C50@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <54249098.5646.23548C50@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: How about ADO streams in a memo field (I guess it is something else in AC2013) in lieu of attachments? Reading them in and exporting takes some coding skill, but not that complicated. On Sep 25, 2014 6:04 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > I'll say it again. > > Attachment data types, like Hyperlinks and multivalue fields are the spawn > of the devil :-) > > (I'm sending you a stripped down application with a form that does what > you want using > conventional data types). > > -- > Stuart > > > On 25 Sep 2014 at 15:09, Susan Harkins wrote: > > > The new Attachment data type makes this so easy that I'm embarrassed I > > brought it up... > > > > Susan H. > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:05 PM, James Button > > wrote: > > > > > More considerations: > > > > > > Maybe a commentary field where the user can indicate the source of > > > the file - > > > > > > Frequently documents have codes and signatures, and even the > > > originating facility, but do not include the indication of who sent > > > it on to you, or even if it is an 'authorised', or 'certified' copy. > > > > > > And > > > > > > Where is the original filed, what reference/folder/storage facility > > > and under who's responsibility, as there will be times when > > > electronic copies will not be acceptable. > > > > > > > > > That starts on a whole new table - for the documents received, > > > placed in the store, passed on, copied to, and destroyed etc. along > > > with who did the action, and who logged the entry. > > > > > > Ah! - a whole new administration workload - > > > Empire building yea! > > > > > > > > > JimB > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Sep 26 01:49:33 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 16:49:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment In-Reply-To: References: , <54249098.5646.23548C50@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <54250C7D.10806.25388A57@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The main problems with storing any sort of BLOBs in the database are 1. Massive bloat if you are changing the data. 2. Even if you aren't changing it, you can still quickly hit the 2GB limit on the database size. -- Stuart On 26 Sep 2014 at 2:33, Bill Benson wrote: > How about ADO streams in a memo field (I guess it is something else in > AC2013) in lieu of attachments? Reading them in and exporting takes > some coding skill, but not that complicated. On Sep 25, 2014 6:04 PM, > "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > > > I'll say it again. > > > > Attachment data types, like Hyperlinks and multivalue fields are the > > spawn of the devil :-) > > > > (I'm sending you a stripped down application with a form that does > > what you want using conventional data types). > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > > > On 25 Sep 2014 at 15:09, Susan Harkins wrote: > > > > > The new Attachment data type makes this so easy that I'm > > > embarrassed I brought it up... > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:05 PM, James Button > > > wrote: > > > > > > > More considerations: > > > > > > > > Maybe a commentary field where the user can indicate the source > > > > of the file - > > > > > > > > Frequently documents have codes and signatures, and even the > > > > originating facility, but do not include the indication of who > > > > sent it on to you, or even if it is an 'authorised', or > > > > 'certified' copy. > > > > > > > > And > > > > > > > > Where is the original filed, what reference/folder/storage > > > > facility and under who's responsibility, as there will be times > > > > when electronic copies will not be acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > > > That starts on a whole new table - for the documents received, > > > > placed in the store, passed on, copied to, and destroyed etc. > > > > along with who did the action, and who logged the entry. > > > > > > > > Ah! - a whole new administration workload - > > > > Empire building yea! > > > > > > > > > > > > JimB > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 06:30:00 2014 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 07:30:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment In-Reply-To: <54250C7D.10806.25388A57@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <54249098.5646.23548C50@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <54250C7D.10806.25388A57@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: We're on a shared drive that's gainormous. I'm not worried about space. The only reason she'd change a document would be if you chose the wrong one in the first place. Each animal comes in with one or two -- they don't change. She wants to know when she receives them and then link to them so she can review them quickly instead of physically finding them in a file cabinet somewhere. Guys, the new Attachment field is delightful. You double-click it and it opens a dialog to let you find and select the file. Once there's a file, you just click it to open it. I had to do absolutely nothing to get it to work. For our purposes, that's good enough for me. :) The ease has got me leaning toward a 10 easy things you didn't know you could do in Access without a little sweat article or something like that. :) Susan H. On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 2:49 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > The main problems with storing any sort of BLOBs in the database are > > 1. Massive bloat if you are changing the data. > 2. Even if you aren't changing it, you can still quickly hit the 2GB > limit on the database size. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 26 Sep 2014 at 2:33, Bill Benson wrote: > > > How about ADO streams in a memo field (I guess it is something else in > > AC2013) in lieu of attachments? Reading them in and exporting takes > > some coding skill, but not that complicated. On Sep 25, 2014 6:04 PM, > > "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > > > > > I'll say it again. > > > > > > Attachment data types, like Hyperlinks and multivalue fields are the > > > spawn of the devil :-) > > > > > > (I'm sending you a stripped down application with a form that does > > > what you want using conventional data types). > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > > > > On 25 Sep 2014 at 15:09, Susan Harkins wrote: > > > > > > > The new Attachment data type makes this so easy that I'm > > > > embarrassed I brought it up... > > > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:05 PM, James Button > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > More considerations: > > > > > > > > > > Maybe a commentary field where the user can indicate the source > > > > > of the file - > > > > > > > > > > Frequently documents have codes and signatures, and even the > > > > > originating facility, but do not include the indication of who > > > > > sent it on to you, or even if it is an 'authorised', or > > > > > 'certified' copy. > > > > > > > > > > And > > > > > > > > > > Where is the original filed, what reference/folder/storage > > > > > facility and under who's responsibility, as there will be times > > > > > when electronic copies will not be acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That starts on a whole new table - for the documents received, > > > > > placed in the store, passed on, copied to, and destroyed etc. > > > > > along with who did the action, and who logged the entry. > > > > > > > > > > Ah! - a whole new administration workload - > > > > > Empire building yea! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JimB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 26 06:39:26 2014 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:39:26 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment In-Reply-To: References: <54249098.5646.23548C50@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <54250C7D.10806.25388A57@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <5a037f2e6d0341b68287ed51572ab643@AMSPR06MB357.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Hi Susan Well, at least I think you should create and link to a separate accdb for the attachment storage. This way many and/or large documents won't ever gobble up your main data. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Susan Harkins Sendt: 26. september 2014 13:30 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment We're on a shared drive that's gainormous. I'm not worried about space. The only reason she'd change a document would be if you chose the wrong one in the first place. Each animal comes in with one or two -- they don't change. She wants to know when she receives them and then link to them so she can review them quickly instead of physically finding them in a file cabinet somewhere. Guys, the new Attachment field is delightful. You double-click it and it opens a dialog to let you find and select the file. Once there's a file, you just click it to open it. I had to do absolutely nothing to get it to work. For our purposes, that's good enough for me. :) The ease has got me leaning toward a 10 easy things you didn't know you could do in Access without a little sweat article or something like that. :) Susan H. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 07:49:13 2014 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:49:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment In-Reply-To: <5a037f2e6d0341b68287ed51572ab643@AMSPR06MB357.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> References: <54249098.5646.23548C50@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <54250C7D.10806.25388A57@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5a037f2e6d0341b68287ed51572ab643@AMSPR06MB357.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Susan, Gustav has a good idea, although not quite on the head, since the attachment fields are part of the table itself. But one thing you could do is create a second table containing only an FK pointing to the original table, plus as many attachment fields as you think you might need. Then you could move only that table to a new database and modify your form to join the main table to its attachments. Best of both worlds. Incidentally, Helen Fedemma has some good code for working with attachments, should you need it. Arthur On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:39 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Susan > > Well, at least I think you should create and link to a separate accdb for > the attachment storage. This way many and/or large documents won't ever > gobble up your main data. > > /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 26 08:00:38 2014 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 13:00:38 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment In-Reply-To: References: <54249098.5646.23548C50@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <54250C7D.10806.25388A57@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5a037f2e6d0341b68287ed51572ab643@AMSPR06MB357.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <2284d7c9161f46d9abdb07473f50d543@AMSPR06MB357.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Hi Arthur That was exactly what I tried to suggest, though leaving out the details. I failed ... time for a Friday's beer. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Arthur Fuller Sendt: 26. september 2014 14:49 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment Susan, Gustav has a good idea, although not quite on the head, since the attachment fields are part of the table itself. But one thing you could do is create a second table containing only an FK pointing to the original table, plus as many attachment fields as you think you might need. Then you could move only that table to a new database and modify your form to join the main table to its attachments. Best of both worlds. Incidentally, Helen Fedemma has some good code for working with attachments, should you need it. Arthur On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:39 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Susan > > Well, at least I think you should create and link to a separate accdb > for the attachment storage. This way many and/or large documents won't > ever gobble up your main data. > > /gustav From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Sep 26 08:08:38 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 23:08:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment In-Reply-To: <5a037f2e6d0341b68287ed51572ab643@AMSPR06MB357.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> References: , , <5a037f2e6d0341b68287ed51572ab643@AMSPR06MB357.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <54256556.15610.269398DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> If you insist on using the attachment field type, I agree. -- Stuart On 26 Sep 2014 at 11:39, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Susan > > Well, at least I think you should create and link to a separate accdb > for the attachment storage. This way many and/or large documents won't > ever gobble up your main data. > > /gustav > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Susan > Harkins Sendt: 26. september 2014 13:30 Til: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Scanning documents > as attachment > > We're on a shared drive that's gainormous. I'm not worried about > space. The only reason she'd change a document would be if you chose > the wrong one in the first place. Each animal comes in with one or two > -- they don't change. She wants to know when she receives them and > then link to them so she can review them quickly instead of physically > finding them in a file cabinet somewhere. > > Guys, the new Attachment field is delightful. You double-click it and > it opens a dialog to let you find and select the file. Once there's a > file, you just click it to open it. I had to do absolutely nothing to > get it to work. For our purposes, that's good enough for me. :) The > ease has got me leaning toward a 10 easy things you didn't know you > could do in Access without a little sweat article or something like > that. :) > > Susan H. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Sep 26 08:08:38 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 23:08:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment In-Reply-To: References: , <54250C7D.10806.25388A57@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <54256556.21655.269399D9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Did you get the sample database I sent you? On 26 Sep 2014 at 7:30, Susan Harkins wrote: > We're on a shared drive that's gainormous. I'm not worried about > space. The only reason she'd change a document would be if you chose > the wrong one in the first place. Each animal comes in with one or two > -- they don't change. She wants to know when she receives them and > then link to them so she can review them quickly instead of physically > finding them in a file cabinet somewhere. > > Guys, the new Attachment field is delightful. You double-click it and > it opens a dialog to let you find and select the file. Once there's a > file, you just click it to open it. I had to do absolutely nothing to > get it to work. For our purposes, that's good enough for me. :) The > ease has got me leaning toward a 10 easy things you didn't know you > could do in Access without a little sweat article or something like > that. :) > > Susan H. > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 2:49 AM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > > The main problems with storing any sort of BLOBs in the database are > > > > 1. Massive bloat if you are changing the data. > > 2. Even if you aren't changing it, you can still quickly hit the > > 2GB limit on the database size. > > > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 26 Sep 2014 at 2:33, Bill Benson wrote: > > > > > How about ADO streams in a memo field (I guess it is something > > > else in AC2013) in lieu of attachments? Reading them in and > > > exporting takes some coding skill, but not that complicated. On > > > Sep 25, 2014 6:04 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I'll say it again. > > > > > > > > Attachment data types, like Hyperlinks and multivalue fields are > > > > the spawn of the devil :-) > > > > > > > > (I'm sending you a stripped down application with a form that > > > > does what you want using conventional data types). > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Stuart > > > > > > > > > > > > On 25 Sep 2014 at 15:09, Susan Harkins wrote: > > > > > > > > > The new Attachment data type makes this so easy that I'm > > > > > embarrassed I brought it up... > > > > > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:05 PM, James Button > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > More considerations: > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe a commentary field where the user can indicate the > > > > > > source of the file - > > > > > > > > > > > > Frequently documents have codes and signatures, and even the > > > > > > originating facility, but do not include the indication of > > > > > > who sent it on to you, or even if it is an 'authorised', or > > > > > > 'certified' copy. > > > > > > > > > > > > And > > > > > > > > > > > > Where is the original filed, what reference/folder/storage > > > > > > facility and under who's responsibility, as there will be > > > > > > times when electronic copies will not be acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That starts on a whole new table - for the documents > > > > > > received, placed in the store, passed on, copied to, and > > > > > > destroyed etc. along with who did the action, and who logged > > > > > > the entry. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah! - a whole new administration workload - > > > > > > Empire building yea! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JimB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 08:11:41 2014 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 09:11:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment In-Reply-To: <2284d7c9161f46d9abdb07473f50d543@AMSPR06MB357.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> References: <54249098.5646.23548C50@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <54250C7D.10806.25388A57@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5a037f2e6d0341b68287ed51572ab643@AMSPR06MB357.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> <2284d7c9161f46d9abdb07473f50d543@AMSPR06MB357.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Have one for me too, Gustav! On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Arthur > > That was exactly what I tried to suggest, though leaving out the details. > I failed ... time for a Friday's beer. > > /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 26 08:16:01 2014 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 13:16:01 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment In-Reply-To: References: <54249098.5646.23548C50@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <54250C7D.10806.25388A57@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <5a037f2e6d0341b68287ed51572ab643@AMSPR06MB357.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> <2284d7c9161f46d9abdb07473f50d543@AMSPR06MB357.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <4e3f2a4073e74d17b5f2b534d2ef418a@AMSPR06MB357.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> No trouble, Arthur. I see an upcoming splendid evening! /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Arthur Fuller Sendt: 26. september 2014 15:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Scanning documents as attachment Have one for me too, Gustav! On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Arthur > > That was exactly what I tried to suggest, though leaving out the details. > I failed ... time for a Friday's beer. > > /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Sep 29 11:48:50 2014 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 16:48:50 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Importing remote reports to client frontend Message-ID: Hi all A frontend A2013 application is distributed to clients. It connects to tables and views at a remote SQL Server. No problem. However, each client may have one or more reports with a custom layout. These should be imported to the frontend. This is quite easy if you have a local accdb containing the reports. But would there be another method where you wouldn't need to distribute a local accdb with the reports? You could download a file, text or accdb, and import the reports from this, but I would prefer a method where a local file is not needed. Any ideas? /gustav From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue Sep 30 13:01:46 2014 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 11:01:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing remote reports to client frontend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008001cfdcd8$99a1d400$cce57c00$@cox.net> Gustav, Since there are no other takers, I'll offer an idea. You could have the client app either download a text file from your server, import as report, then delete the file. Or you could have the client app stream the file off the server, save it to the client, import into a new report then delete the temp text file. I did something like this long ago when the web tools weren't that good, I'd stream a web page, which was a big table, into Access then parse it to get the data I wanted. Not elegant, but it still works as we have not changed that part of the application in 10 years. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 9:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Importing remote reports to client frontend Hi all A frontend A2013 application is distributed to clients. It connects to tables and views at a remote SQL Server. No problem. However, each client may have one or more reports with a custom layout. These should be imported to the frontend. This is quite easy if you have a local accdb containing the reports. But would there be another method where you wouldn't need to distribute a local accdb with the reports? You could download a file, text or accdb, and import the reports from this, but I would prefer a method where a local file is not needed. Any ideas? /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Sep 30 17:51:36 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 22:51:36 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Windows 10... Message-ID: Worth a read. Looks better than 8.1 :) <> Cheers Darryl From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Sep 30 17:56:29 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 08:56:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Windows 10... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <542B351D.7947.3D4719B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I guess they skipped the next number to avoid everyone saying: Windows? Nein! -- Stuart On 30 Sep 2014 at 22:51, Darryl Collins wrote: > Worth a read. Looks better than 8.1 :) > > < ws-10/>> > > > Cheers > Darryl > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Sep 30 18:09:45 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 23:09:45 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Windows 10... In-Reply-To: <542B351D.7947.3D4719B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <542B351D.7947.3D4719B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <2823caba08d540dc8198f09043bc95c7@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Hahahaha! I hadn't consider the Teutonic syntax implications of using 9. I suspect it is more for branding and marketing 1: To make a clean break from W8. By choosing "10" it shows a big leap forward from the current offering. 2: 10 is a nice 'countdown' type number. Solid. 3: it is also a nice score - Watch for headlines like "Windows 10 out of 10!" blah blah. 4: Surprise factor. Everyone was expecting Windows 9 - so this will shake it up a bit and get your attention. 5: There is the nerd binary factor of using 1 and 0 in the OS's name (although maybe it is just me) I am sure there are more, but it is early here in Oz and I am in need of a Coffee. What is worse we only have the 'low grade' Nescafe pods left until our new order arrives. - Grim days indeed. Hmmmm... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2014 8:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Windows 10... I guess they skipped the next number to avoid everyone saying: Windows? Nein! -- Stuart On 30 Sep 2014 at 22:51, Darryl Collins wrote: > Worth a read. Looks better than 8.1 :) > > < ws-10/>> > > > Cheers > Darryl > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Tue Sep 30 18:25:56 2014 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 09:25:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Windows 10... In-Reply-To: <2823caba08d540dc8198f09043bc95c7@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <542B351D.7947.3D4719B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <2823caba08d540dc8198f09043bc95c7@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <9ACF3FA1A2694D46B8CE61A6EAF7C1E1@DDNote> Even the low grade Nescafe pods trump instant. (well maybe apart from the red decaf ones) Anyway...Gone are the days of International Roast and or Caterers Blend, my friend. And good riddance to them, I say. #whowasthegeniusthatinventednespresso Stuart - Windows nein! - Hee hee - Gold See y'all D -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2014 9:10 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Windows 10... Hahahaha! I hadn't consider the Teutonic syntax implications of using 9. I suspect it is more for branding and marketing 1: To make a clean break from W8. By choosing "10" it shows a big leap forward from the current offering. 2: 10 is a nice 'countdown' type number. Solid. 3: it is also a nice score - Watch for headlines like "Windows 10 out of 10!" blah blah. 4: Surprise factor. Everyone was expecting Windows 9 - so this will shake it up a bit and get your attention. 5: There is the nerd binary factor of using 1 and 0 in the OS's name (although maybe it is just me) I am sure there are more, but it is early here in Oz and I am in need of a Coffee. What is worse we only have the 'low grade' Nescafe pods left until our new order arrives. - Grim days indeed. Hmmmm... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2014 8:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Windows 10... I guess they skipped the next number to avoid everyone saying: Windows? Nein! -- Stuart On 30 Sep 2014 at 22:51, Darryl Collins wrote: > Worth a read. Looks better than 8.1 :) > > < ws-10/>> > > > Cheers > Darryl > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Sep 30 18:44:33 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 23:44:33 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Windows 10... In-Reply-To: <9ACF3FA1A2694D46B8CE61A6EAF7C1E1@DDNote> References: <542B351D.7947.3D4719B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <2823caba08d540dc8198f09043bc95c7@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> <9ACF3FA1A2694D46B8CE61A6EAF7C1E1@DDNote> Message-ID: <0261e2133b81433f8715e2d6105a75b7@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> "International Roast" "Caterers Blend" ** shudder ** OMG - The horror, the horror... :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2014 9:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Windows 10... Even the low grade Nescafe pods trump instant. (well maybe apart from the red decaf ones) Anyway...Gone are the days of International Roast and or Caterers Blend, my friend. And good riddance to them, I say. #whowasthegeniusthatinventednespresso Stuart - Windows nein! - Hee hee - Gold See y'all D -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2014 9:10 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Windows 10... Hahahaha! I hadn't consider the Teutonic syntax implications of using 9. I suspect it is more for branding and marketing 1: To make a clean break from W8. By choosing "10" it shows a big leap forward from the current offering. 2: 10 is a nice 'countdown' type number. Solid. 3: it is also a nice score - Watch for headlines like "Windows 10 out of 10!" blah blah. 4: Surprise factor. Everyone was expecting Windows 9 - so this will shake it up a bit and get your attention. 5: There is the nerd binary factor of using 1 and 0 in the OS's name (although maybe it is just me) I am sure there are more, but it is early here in Oz and I am in need of a Coffee. What is worse we only have the 'low grade' Nescafe pods left until our new order arrives. - Grim days indeed. Hmmmm... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2014 8:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Windows 10... I guess they skipped the next number to avoid everyone saying: Windows? Nein! -- Stuart On 30 Sep 2014 at 22:51, Darryl Collins wrote: > Worth a read. Looks better than 8.1 :) > > < ws-10/>> > > > Cheers > Darryl > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Sep 30 18:53:35 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:53:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Windows 10... In-Reply-To: <9ACF3FA1A2694D46B8CE61A6EAF7C1E1@DDNote> References: , <2823caba08d540dc8198f09043bc95c7@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com>, <9ACF3FA1A2694D46B8CE61A6EAF7C1E1@DDNote> Message-ID: <542B427F.796.3D7B621F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Thread drift, but WTH: I've tried those pod things a few times and I wouldn't have one if you gave it to me. Get yourself one of these and some good PNG Arabica: http://cookshoppl.cart.net.au/details/594601.html On 1 Oct 2014 at 9:25, Darren wrote: > Even the low grade Nescafe pods trump instant. (well maybe apart from > the red decaf ones) Anyway...Gone are the days of International Roast > and or Caterers Blend, my friend. And good riddance to them, I say. > #whowasthegeniusthatinventednespresso > > Stuart - Windows nein! - Hee hee - Gold > See y'all D > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > Collins Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2014 9:10 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Windows > 10... > > Hahahaha! I hadn't consider the Teutonic syntax implications of using > 9. > > I suspect it is more for branding and marketing > > 1: To make a clean break from W8. By choosing "10" it shows a big > leap forward from the current offering. 2: 10 is a nice 'countdown' > type number. Solid. 3: it is also a nice score - Watch for headlines > like "Windows 10 out of 10!" blah blah. 4: Surprise factor. Everyone > was expecting Windows 9 - so this will shake it up a bit and get your > attention. 5: There is the nerd binary factor of using 1 and 0 in the > OS's name (although maybe it is just me) > > I am sure there are more, but it is early here in Oz and I am in need > of a Coffee. What is worse we only have the 'low grade' Nescafe pods > left until our new order arrives. - Grim days indeed. > > Hmmmm... > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2014 8:56 AM To: Access > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: > Windows 10... > > I guess they skipped the next number to avoid everyone saying: > > Windows? Nein! > > -- > Stuart > > On 30 Sep 2014 at 22:51, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > Worth a read. Looks better than 8.1 :) > > > > < > do ws-10/>> > > > > > > Cheers > > Darryl > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 18:57:45 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 19:57:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Windows 10... In-Reply-To: <542B351D.7947.3D4719B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <542B351D.7947.3D4719B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Or that Windows is on its 9th (and final) life. On Sep 30, 2014 6:59 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > I guess they skipped the next number to avoid everyone saying: > > Windows? Nein! > > -- > Stuart > > On 30 Sep 2014 at 22:51, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > Worth a read. Looks better than 8.1 :) > > > > < > ws-10/>> > > > > > > Cheers > > Darryl > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Sep 30 19:04:13 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 10:04:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Windows 10... In-Reply-To: References: , <542B351D.7947.3D4719B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <542B44FD.14846.3D851AD3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> But it's not a cat, it's a dog :-) -- Stuart On 30 Sep 2014 at 19:57, Bill Benson wrote: > Or that Windows is on its 9th (and final) life. > On Sep 30, 2014 6:59 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > wrote: > > > I guess they skipped the next number to avoid everyone saying: > > > > Windows? Nein! > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 30 Sep 2014 at 22:51, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > > > Worth a read. Looks better than 8.1 :) > > > > > > < > > indo ws-10/>> > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > Darryl > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 19:09:35 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 20:09:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Windows 10... In-Reply-To: <542B44FD.14846.3D851AD3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <542B351D.7947.3D4719B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <542B44FD.14846.3D851AD3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Oh you are right, it's that other mfg's OS that is named after big cats. My bad! On Sep 30, 2014 8:07 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > But it's not a cat, it's a dog :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 30 Sep 2014 at 19:57, Bill Benson wrote: > > > Or that Windows is on its 9th (and final) life. > > On Sep 30, 2014 6:59 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > > wrote: > > > > > I guess they skipped the next number to avoid everyone saying: > > > > > > Windows? Nein! > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 30 Sep 2014 at 22:51, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > > > > > Worth a read. Looks better than 8.1 :) > > > > > > > > < > > > indo ws-10/>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > Darryl > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au Tue Sep 30 19:14:08 2014 From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 00:14:08 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Windows 10... In-Reply-To: References: <542B351D.7947.3D4719B9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <542B44FD.14846.3D851AD3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20ddf8cf20784f67a196537fcc085a32@HKXPR04MB360.apcprd04.prod.outlook.com> Well, there is also the "Windows 10" = "Windows X" angle as well. But doesn't Apple use the "X" for Mac OS? Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2014 10:10 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Windows 10... Oh you are right, it's that other mfg's OS that is named after big cats. My bad! On Sep 30, 2014 8:07 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > But it's not a cat, it's a dog :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 30 Sep 2014 at 19:57, Bill Benson wrote: > > > Or that Windows is on its 9th (and final) life. > > On Sep 30, 2014 6:59 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" > > wrote: > > > > > I guess they skipped the next number to avoid everyone saying: > > > > > > Windows? Nein! > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 30 Sep 2014 at 22:51, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > > > > > Worth a read. Looks better than 8.1 :) > > > > > > > > < > > > indo ws-10/>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > Darryl > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 19:30:04 2014 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:30:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Query expression refers to column(1) on a form Message-ID: So this is weird, I know I've done this before, I've just been away from Access for too long (I think). I assumed that I can create an expression in a query that would refer to a column of a combo box on a form as such: Expr1: Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column(1) I get an error when I try to run the query: Undefined Function 'Expr1: Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column' in experession (notice the column number is missing) When I enter ? Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column(1) in the immediate window, it displays the value as expected I made a work around to get this going by creating a public function and calling it as such: Expr2: GetBatchName() Public Function GetBatchName() GetBatchName = Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column(1) & " " & Format(Forms![frmBuild]![cboMonth].Column(2), "yyyymmdd") End Function I know, I know, there isn't any error handling, just testing it out... Anyway, what am I forgetting? It's been a while. D From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 19:35:30 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 20:35:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Query expression refers to column(1) on a form In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, you need the same single quotes you would encapsulate any value with, when using an equality in the criteria of a SQL expression On Sep 30, 2014 8:33 PM, "David McAfee" wrote: > So this is weird, I know I've done this before, I've just been away from > Access for too long (I think). > > I assumed that I can create an expression in a query that would refer to a > column of a combo box on a form as such: > > Expr1: Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column(1) > > I get an error when I try to run the query: Undefined Function 'Expr1: > Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column' in experession > > (notice the column number is missing) > > When I enter ? Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column(1) in the immediate > window, it displays the value as expected > > I made a work around to get this going by creating a public function and > calling it as such: > > Expr2: GetBatchName() > > > Public Function GetBatchName() > GetBatchName = Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column(1) & " " & > Format(Forms![frmBuild]![cboMonth].Column(2), "yyyymmdd") > End Function > > I know, I know, there isn't any error handling, just testing it out... > > Anyway, what am I forgetting? > > It's been a while. > > D > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bensonforums at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 19:40:41 2014 From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 20:40:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Query expression refers to column(1) on a form In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Also, in case i am wrong, and that isnt sufficient, have you tried building something similar in the designer with that for reference in the where, then checked the SQL view to see what Access translated to? I seldom try writing SQL from scratch anymore, I too am getting rusty. On Sep 30, 2014 8:33 PM, "David McAfee" wrote: > So this is weird, I know I've done this before, I've just been away from > Access for too long (I think). > > I assumed that I can create an expression in a query that would refer to a > column of a combo box on a form as such: > > Expr1: Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column(1) > > I get an error when I try to run the query: Undefined Function 'Expr1: > Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column' in experession > > (notice the column number is missing) > > When I enter ? Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column(1) in the immediate > window, it displays the value as expected > > I made a work around to get this going by creating a public function and > calling it as such: > > Expr2: GetBatchName() > > > Public Function GetBatchName() > GetBatchName = Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column(1) & " " & > Format(Forms![frmBuild]![cboMonth].Column(2), "yyyymmdd") > End Function > > I know, I know, there isn't any error handling, just testing it out... > > Anyway, what am I forgetting? > > It's been a while. > > D > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Sep 30 20:15:10 2014 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 11:15:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Query expression refers to column(1) on a form In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <542B559E.26169.3DC61181@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've never been able to do it either. I generally use a Static function which I set before opening the query/report: Static Function BatchName( optional s as string) as string dim store as string if not ismissing(s) then store = s end if Batchname = Store end function Then put GetbatchName() in the query And in the onClick which invoked the query or whatever: ... BatchName cboBuildType.Column(1) & " " & Format(cboMonth.Column(2), "yyyymmdd") Docmd.OpenReport "rptMyRreport" ... On 30 Sep 2014 at 17:30, David McAfee wrote: > So this is weird, I know I've done this before, I've just been away > from Access for too long (I think). > > I assumed that I can create an expression in a query that would refer > to a column of a combo box on a form as such: > > Expr1: Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column(1) > > I get an error when I try to run the query: Undefined Function 'Expr1: > Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column' in experession > > (notice the column number is missing) > > When I enter ? Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column(1) in the > immediate window, it displays the value as expected > > I made a work around to get this going by creating a public function > and calling it as such: > > Expr2: GetBatchName() > > > Public Function GetBatchName() > GetBatchName = Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column(1) & " " & > Format(Forms![frmBuild]![cboMonth].Column(2), "yyyymmdd") End Function > > I know, I know, there isn't any error handling, just testing it out... > > Anyway, what am I forgetting? > > It's been a while. > > D > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 22:44:01 2014 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 20:44:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Query expression refers to column(1) on a form In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Depending on what version you're using, you may not be able to reference anything but the 0 column in a combo both in a query. One option is to build the SQL in VBA with a static function like Stuart mentioned. If you're using 2013, I would recommend using a TempVar instead. They seem to be very stable and even persist after unhandled errors. All you need do is set one either in code or using a data macro. Queries in 2013 are quite happy to use a TempVar, where the expression would be [TempVars]![MyTempVarName]. They are a global collection in 2013 and persist through an entire Access session unless you change them somewhere else in your code or macros. You set one by simply writing TempVars!MyTempVarName = . The square brackets are because tempvars are an object like the Forms collection. Charlotte On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 5:30 PM, David McAfee wrote: > So this is weird, I know I've done this before, I've just been away from > Access for too long (I think). > > I assumed that I can create an expression in a query that would refer to a > column of a combo box on a form as such: > > Expr1: Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column(1) > > I get an error when I try to run the query: Undefined Function 'Expr1: > Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column' in experession > > (notice the column number is missing) > > When I enter ? Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column(1) in the immediate > window, it displays the value as expected > > I made a work around to get this going by creating a public function and > calling it as such: > > Expr2: GetBatchName() > > > Public Function GetBatchName() > GetBatchName = Forms![frmBuild]![cboBuildType].Column(1) & " " & > Format(Forms![frmBuild]![cboMonth].Column(2), "yyyymmdd") > End Function > > I know, I know, there isn't any error handling, just testing it out... > > Anyway, what am I forgetting? > > It's been a while. > > D > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >