From gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Jan  1 12:47:19 2016
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 18:47:19 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
 validation
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB15847DC0F47AE4A6BFF9D6ADCAEA0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB15847DC0F47AE4A6BFF9D6ADCAEA0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <VI1PR06MB1584063EB9D5536120DCF06CCAFF0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Happy New Year to all.

I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date entry in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.

Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:

    http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS

The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a big role.

/gustav

________________________________________
Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>
Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full validation

Hi all

Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for 24-hour fool-proof input.
Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and wrote down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.

Here it is, including a demo ready to run:

    http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ

It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and the form's Error event.

/gustav

From accessd at shaw.ca  Fri Jan  1 14:30:20 2016
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 13:30:20 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
 validation
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB1584063EB9D5536120DCF06CCAFF0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <808934797.45623617.1451680220753.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca>

Hi Gustav:

Impressive piece of work...I suspect it is years in the making and years in the proofing. (My favourite date format...works numerically, alphabetically and date wise.) 

I will save this piece of code for future reference.

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:47:19 AM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Happy New Year to all.

I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date entry in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.

Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:

    http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS

The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a big role.

/gustav

________________________________________
Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>
Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full validation

Hi all

Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for 24-hour fool-proof input.
Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and wrote down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.

Here it is, including a demo ready to run:

    http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ

It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and the form's Error event.

/gustav
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From accesspro at gmail.com  Tue Jan  5 22:42:02 2016
From: accesspro at gmail.com (Bob Heygood)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 20:42:02 -0800
Subject: [AccessD] Data Update
In-Reply-To: <zsJG1r01t0xgD8Z01sJHy7>
References: <005f01d1431c$fb13d020$f13b7060$@cox.net> <zsJG1r01t0xgD8Z01sJHy7>
Message-ID: <01ec01d1483c$9b4bd190$d1e374b0$@gmail.com>

Hey Rocky,
Just now getting over the holidays and such.
Wanted to thank you for your response and offer. I ended up making the
"calling" form bound and solved most of my problems. Still some issues where
the info is not current, but I have used some smoke and mirrors to make sure
the user winds up with the "right" data.
When I get the time I sure would like to document all the info everyone has
contributed as it relates to one form calling another and updating the data.
This seems like a common task

Thanks,

Bob
BTW - maybe for once we can brag/complain about our weather. 3" here inland
today.



-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Rocky Smolin
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 8:18 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Data Update

Bob:

If you don't get it worked out this morning let's do a Skype and get 'er
done.  I'll be out most of the morning but here after 1pm.  Or you can come
by.  Bit of a drive but lot worse places to visit than Del Mar.

Let me know.

r


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of B
Heygood
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 8:13 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: [AccessD] Data Update

Interesting. 
I can't get the suggestion below to work EVEN when first opening the
form....

Lost focus not so much..


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Rocky Smolin
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 6:36 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Data Type Mismatch in criteria expression

I think the GotFocus event of the original form will trigger when you close
the update form.  You can test by putting MsgBox "!" in the GotFocus event
of the first form, open the second form, close it and you should see !. If
you do then you can put me.refresh in that event.

HTH

Rocky
 

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Heygood
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 6:15 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Data Type Mismatch in criteria expression

I need to open another form via a button and make some changes to various
data. After closing that form, I need to see the newly updated data on the
original form.
My question is what form event should I use (on current or....) and what
method (.requery or .re.....) to be sure I see the data updated?

Tia

Bob


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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

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From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Wed Jan  6 00:10:21 2016
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 22:10:21 -0800
Subject: [AccessD] Data Update
In-Reply-To: <01ec01d1483c$9b4bd190$d1e374b0$@gmail.com>
References: <005f01d1431c$fb13d020$f13b7060$@cox.net> <zsJG1r01t0xgD8Z01sJHy7>
	<01ec01d1483c$9b4bd190$d1e374b0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9AE0D0733A3341AB80C72F269EB3A2BE@HAL9007>

Happy to help.  I was playing some music in North Park today.  When I came
out the street was totally flooded.  Crazy.

r 

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Heygood
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 8:42 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Data Update

Hey Rocky,
Just now getting over the holidays and such.
Wanted to thank you for your response and offer. I ended up making the
"calling" form bound and solved most of my problems. Still some issues where
the info is not current, but I have used some smoke and mirrors to make sure
the user winds up with the "right" data.
When I get the time I sure would like to document all the info everyone has
contributed as it relates to one form calling another and updating the data.
This seems like a common task

Thanks,

Bob
BTW - maybe for once we can brag/complain about our weather. 3" here inland
today.



-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Rocky Smolin
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 8:18 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Data Update

Bob:

If you don't get it worked out this morning let's do a Skype and get 'er
done.  I'll be out most of the morning but here after 1pm.  Or you can come
by.  Bit of a drive but lot worse places to visit than Del Mar.

Let me know.

r


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of B
Heygood
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 8:13 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: [AccessD] Data Update

Interesting. 
I can't get the suggestion below to work EVEN when first opening the
form....

Lost focus not so much..


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Rocky Smolin
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 6:36 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Data Type Mismatch in criteria expression

I think the GotFocus event of the original form will trigger when you close
the update form.  You can test by putting MsgBox "!" in the GotFocus event
of the first form, open the second form, close it and you should see !. If
you do then you can put me.refresh in that event.

HTH

Rocky
 

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Heygood
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 6:15 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Data Type Mismatch in criteria expression

I need to open another form via a button and make some changes to various
data. After closing that form, I need to see the newly updated data on the
original form.
My question is what form event should I use (on current or....) and what
method (.requery or .re.....) to be sure I see the data updated?

Tia

Bob


--
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http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

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From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com  Wed Jan  6 09:05:07 2016
From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 15:05:07 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem
Message-ID: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>

I have a data entry form tied to a table. When the data entry has been made in the last text box I want to close the form. I have the following event procedure on the exit event of the text box. I get an error message. I am not seeing what I am doing wrong. Thanks.

RunTime Error 2585
This action can't be carried out while processing a form or report event.

Private Sub Not_defined_Exit(Cancel As Integer)
    DoCmd.Close acForm, "frm Cisco Sands Input", acSaveYes
End Sub

I tried adding this but it did not help

Private Sub Not_defined_AfterUpdate()
    DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord
End Sub

From df.waters at outlook.com  Wed Jan  6 09:11:56 2016
From: df.waters at outlook.com (Dan Waters)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 09:11:56 -0600
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem
In-Reply-To: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
References: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
Message-ID: <BLU176-DS152DEC80C69AC37DF680B6F6F40@phx.gbl>

1. Is your textbox named 'Not-defined'?

2. Try replacing DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord with Me.Dirty = False.
Another way to do the same thing - maybe it will work.

Dan


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Kaup, Chester
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:05 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem

I have a data entry form tied to a table. When the data entry has been made
in the last text box I want to close the form. I have the following event
procedure on the exit event of the text box. I get an error message. I am
not seeing what I am doing wrong. Thanks.

RunTime Error 2585
This action can't be carried out while processing a form or report event.

Private Sub Not_defined_Exit(Cancel As Integer)
    DoCmd.Close acForm, "frm Cisco Sands Input", acSaveYes End Sub

I tried adding this but it did not help

Private Sub Not_defined_AfterUpdate()
    DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord
End Sub
--
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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Wed Jan  6 10:38:58 2016
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 08:38:58 -0800
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem
In-Reply-To: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
References: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
Message-ID: <FA30246A1D16443F89C849E9835AC9B4@HAL9007>

I would try either placing DoEvents before the .Close line or use the after
update event.  But the second might not work if they don't make an entry in
the box. Not sure.

Rocky Smolin
Beach Access Software
858-259-4334
www.bchacc.com
www.e-z-mrp.com
Skype: rocky.smolin
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Kaup, Chester
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 7:05 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem

I have a data entry form tied to a table. When the data entry has been made
in the last text box I want to close the form. I have the following event
procedure on the exit event of the text box. I get an error message. I am
not seeing what I am doing wrong. Thanks.

RunTime Error 2585
This action can't be carried out while processing a form or report event.

Private Sub Not_defined_Exit(Cancel As Integer)
    DoCmd.Close acForm, "frm Cisco Sands Input", acSaveYes End Sub

I tried adding this but it did not help

Private Sub Not_defined_AfterUpdate()
    DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord
End Sub
--
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AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com  Wed Jan  6 11:13:13 2016
From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 17:13:13 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem
In-Reply-To: <BLU176-DS152DEC80C69AC37DF680B6F6F40@phx.gbl>
References: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
	<BLU176-DS152DEC80C69AC37DF680B6F6F40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64F35@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>

Is your textbox named 'Not-defined'? 	Name is Not defined

Me.Dirty = False did not work

Thanks for the ideas

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:12 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

1. Is your textbox named 'Not-defined'?

2. Try replacing DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord with Me.Dirty = False.
Another way to do the same thing - maybe it will work.

Dan


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:05 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem

I have a data entry form tied to a table. When the data entry has been made in the last text box I want to close the form. I have the following event procedure on the exit event of the text box. I get an error message. I am not seeing what I am doing wrong. Thanks.

RunTime Error 2585
This action can't be carried out while processing a form or report event.

Private Sub Not_defined_Exit(Cancel As Integer)
    DoCmd.Close acForm, "frm Cisco Sands Input", acSaveYes End Sub

I tried adding this but it did not help

Private Sub Not_defined_AfterUpdate()
    DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord
End Sub
--
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

--
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AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From df.waters at outlook.com  Wed Jan  6 11:19:01 2016
From: df.waters at outlook.com (Dan Waters)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 11:19:01 -0600
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem
In-Reply-To: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64F35@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
References: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>	<BLU176-DS152DEC80C69AC37DF680B6F6F40@phx.gbl>
	<8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64F35@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
Message-ID: <BLU176-DS188DC85929885F517F0318F6F40@phx.gbl>

I was also thinking that you can just comment out this Exit procedure.  If
your form is bound, the data should automatically be saved when the form is
closed, or when you create a new blank record.

I've never worked with forms designated as 'Data Entry' so I'm just
guessing!

Good Luck!

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Kaup, Chester
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 11:13 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

Is your textbox named 'Not-defined'? 	Name is Not defined

Me.Dirty = False did not work

Thanks for the ideas

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Waters
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:12 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

1. Is your textbox named 'Not-defined'?

2. Try replacing DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord with Me.Dirty = False.
Another way to do the same thing - maybe it will work.

Dan


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Kaup, Chester
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:05 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem

I have a data entry form tied to a table. When the data entry has been made
in the last text box I want to close the form. I have the following event
procedure on the exit event of the text box. I get an error message. I am
not seeing what I am doing wrong. Thanks.

RunTime Error 2585
This action can't be carried out while processing a form or report event.

Private Sub Not_defined_Exit(Cancel As Integer)
    DoCmd.Close acForm, "frm Cisco Sands Input", acSaveYes End Sub

I tried adding this but it did not help

Private Sub Not_defined_AfterUpdate()
    DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord
End Sub
--
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http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

--
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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From dbdoug at gmail.com  Wed Jan  6 11:31:10 2016
From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 09:31:10 -0800
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem
In-Reply-To: <BLU176-DS188DC85929885F517F0318F6F40@phx.gbl>
References: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
	<BLU176-DS152DEC80C69AC37DF680B6F6F40@phx.gbl>
	<8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64F35@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
	<BLU176-DS188DC85929885F517F0318F6F40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAFa8Nki-a8GE+PDdTPPNGDAhELSVpv=3DHQ1vsmYXkZ77pzThA@mail.gmail.com>

You can close the form if you do it from the AfterUpdate event of the text
box - I just tried that here.

Doug

From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com  Wed Jan  6 12:33:49 2016
From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 18:33:49 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem
In-Reply-To: <FA30246A1D16443F89C849E9835AC9B4@HAL9007>
References: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
	<FA30246A1D16443F89C849E9835AC9B4@HAL9007>
Message-ID: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64FD6@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>

I tried moving the event procedure to the lost focus event and then closing the form but still not success. The save record and dirty commends run fine. Code as below. I am still at a loss as to wny I cannot close the form in code but the close button works fine.

Private Sub Not_defined_LostFocus()
    Stop
    DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord
    Me.Dirty = False
End Sub

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 10:39 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

I would try either placing DoEvents before the .Close line or use the after update event.  But the second might not work if they don't make an entry in the box. Not sure.

Rocky Smolin
Beach Access Software
858-259-4334
www.bchacc.com
www.e-z-mrp.com
Skype: rocky.smolin
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 7:05 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem

I have a data entry form tied to a table. When the data entry has been made in the last text box I want to close the form. I have the following event procedure on the exit event of the text box. I get an error message. I am not seeing what I am doing wrong. Thanks.

RunTime Error 2585
This action can't be carried out while processing a form or report event.

Private Sub Not_defined_Exit(Cancel As Integer)
    DoCmd.Close acForm, "frm Cisco Sands Input", acSaveYes End Sub

I tried adding this but it did not help

Private Sub Not_defined_AfterUpdate()
    DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord
End Sub
--
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

--
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AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Wed Jan  6 12:46:42 2016
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 10:46:42 -0800
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem
In-Reply-To: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64FD6@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
References: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com><FA30246A1D16443F89C849E9835AC9B4@HAL9007>
	<8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64FD6@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
Message-ID: <83897C86F9104D55BA2D67FF46D3722D@HAL9007>

Ok - here's a real kludgey workaround that I used once upon a time when I
had a similar problem - slightly embarrassing so please no attribution. :)

Make a command button and make its height and width really really small
(because it has to be visible). Place it in a corner of your of your form or
behind another control. Then in that Exit (or the Lost Focus) set the focus
to that teeny command button.  Then in the Got Focus event of the command
button, close your form. 

I'm ashamed to even write this but HTH :)

rocky


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Kaup, Chester
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 10:34 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

I tried moving the event procedure to the lost focus event and then closing
the form but still not success. The save record and dirty commends run fine.
Code as below. I am still at a loss as to wny I cannot close the form in
code but the close button works fine.

Private Sub Not_defined_LostFocus()
    Stop
    DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord
    Me.Dirty = False
End Sub

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Rocky Smolin
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 10:39 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

I would try either placing DoEvents before the .Close line or use the after
update event.  But the second might not work if they don't make an entry in
the box. Not sure.

Rocky Smolin
Beach Access Software
858-259-4334
www.bchacc.com
www.e-z-mrp.com
Skype: rocky.smolin
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Kaup, Chester
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 7:05 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem

I have a data entry form tied to a table. When the data entry has been made
in the last text box I want to close the form. I have the following event
procedure on the exit event of the text box. I get an error message. I am
not seeing what I am doing wrong. Thanks.

RunTime Error 2585
This action can't be carried out while processing a form or report event.

Private Sub Not_defined_Exit(Cancel As Integer)
    DoCmd.Close acForm, "frm Cisco Sands Input", acSaveYes End Sub

I tried adding this but it did not help

Private Sub Not_defined_AfterUpdate()
    DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord
End Sub
--
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http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

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From df.waters at outlook.com  Wed Jan  6 12:51:19 2016
From: df.waters at outlook.com (Dan Waters)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 12:51:19 -0600
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem
In-Reply-To: <83897C86F9104D55BA2D67FF46D3722D@HAL9007>
References: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com><FA30246A1D16443F89C849E9835AC9B4@HAL9007>	<8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64FD6@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
	<83897C86F9104D55BA2D67FF46D3722D@HAL9007>
Message-ID: <BLU176-DS14CD6E28C7C3FEB6D67E48F6F40@phx.gbl>

Rocky - Shame on you!

Been there ... ;-)

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Rocky Smolin
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 12:47 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

Ok - here's a real kludgey workaround that I used once upon a time when I
had a similar problem - slightly embarrassing so please no attribution. :)

Make a command button and make its height and width really really small
(because it has to be visible). Place it in a corner of your of your form or
behind another control. Then in that Exit (or the Lost Focus) set the focus
to that teeny command button.  Then in the Got Focus event of the command
button, close your form. 

I'm ashamed to even write this but HTH :)

rocky


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Kaup, Chester
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 10:34 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

I tried moving the event procedure to the lost focus event and then closing
the form but still not success. The save record and dirty commends run fine.
Code as below. I am still at a loss as to wny I cannot close the form in
code but the close button works fine.

Private Sub Not_defined_LostFocus()
    Stop
    DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord
    Me.Dirty = False
End Sub

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Rocky Smolin
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 10:39 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

I would try either placing DoEvents before the .Close line or use the after
update event.  But the second might not work if they don't make an entry in
the box. Not sure.

Rocky Smolin
Beach Access Software
858-259-4334
www.bchacc.com
www.e-z-mrp.com
Skype: rocky.smolin
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Kaup, Chester
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 7:05 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem

I have a data entry form tied to a table. When the data entry has been made
in the last text box I want to close the form. I have the following event
procedure on the exit event of the text box. I get an error message. I am
not seeing what I am doing wrong. Thanks.

RunTime Error 2585
This action can't be carried out while processing a form or report event.

Private Sub Not_defined_Exit(Cancel As Integer)
    DoCmd.Close acForm, "frm Cisco Sands Input", acSaveYes End Sub

I tried adding this but it did not help

Private Sub Not_defined_AfterUpdate()
    DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord
End Sub
--
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http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

--
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AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

--
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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

--
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From df.waters at outlook.com  Wed Jan  6 14:00:01 2016
From: df.waters at outlook.com (Dan Waters)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 14:00:01 -0600
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem
In-Reply-To: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64FD6@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
References: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>	<FA30246A1D16443F89C849E9835AC9B4@HAL9007>
	<8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64FD6@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
Message-ID: <BLU176-DS5BA8E66E0564EB3417FFDF6F40@phx.gbl>

Comment out the Exit and LostFocus events.

In the AfterUpdate event try just this:

        DoCmd.Close acForm, Me.Name


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Kaup, Chester
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 12:34 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

I tried moving the event procedure to the lost focus event and then closing
the form but still not success. The save record and dirty commends run fine.
Code as below. I am still at a loss as to wny I cannot close the form in
code but the close button works fine.

Private Sub Not_defined_LostFocus()
    Stop
    DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord
    Me.Dirty = False
End Sub



From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com  Wed Jan  6 14:02:39 2016
From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 20:02:39 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem
In-Reply-To: <CAFa8Nki-a8GE+PDdTPPNGDAhELSVpv=3DHQ1vsmYXkZ77pzThA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
	<BLU176-DS152DEC80C69AC37DF680B6F6F40@phx.gbl>
	<8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64F35@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
	<BLU176-DS188DC85929885F517F0318F6F40@phx.gbl>
	<CAFa8Nki-a8GE+PDdTPPNGDAhELSVpv=3DHQ1vsmYXkZ77pzThA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A653CD@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>

That work great if a value is entered in the last field. If the user selects the default value it fails. Maybe not have a default vale and make it a required field?

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 11:31 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

You can close the form if you do it from the AfterUpdate event of the text box - I just tried that here.

Doug
--
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AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
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From jimdettman at verizon.net  Wed Jan  6 14:53:11 2016
From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2016 15:53:11 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem
In-Reply-To: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A653CD@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
References: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
	<BLU176-DS152DEC80C69AC37DF680B6F6F40@phx.gbl>
	<8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64F35@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
	<BLU176-DS188DC85929885F517F0318F6F40@phx.gbl>
	<CAFa8Nki-a8GE+PDdTPPNGDAhELSVpv=3DHQ1vsmYXkZ77pzThA@mail.gmail.com>
	<8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A653CD@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
Message-ID: <396E31F210C241CBAEED12E6E7462022@XPS>


<<Maybe not have a default vale and make it a required field?>>

 Make the field dirty in the OnCurrent event.

 Set it to null, then back to the default value.

 Or use can use Rocky's trick.   It would be far better though to have the
user explicitly indicate when they are done and just use a command button.

 As for why the original error, it's exactly for the reason the error
states; you can't carry out the action at that particular time.  

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Kaup, Chester
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 03:03 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

That work great if a value is entered in the last field. If the user selects
the default value it fails. Maybe not have a default vale and make it a
required field?

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Doug Steele
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 11:31 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

You can close the form if you do it from the AfterUpdate event of the text
box - I just tried that here.

Doug
--
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com  Wed Jan  6 14:56:27 2016
From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 20:56:27 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem
In-Reply-To: <396E31F210C241CBAEED12E6E7462022@XPS>
References: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
	<BLU176-DS152DEC80C69AC37DF680B6F6F40@phx.gbl>
	<8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64F35@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
	<BLU176-DS188DC85929885F517F0318F6F40@phx.gbl>
	<CAFa8Nki-a8GE+PDdTPPNGDAhELSVpv=3DHQ1vsmYXkZ77pzThA@mail.gmail.com>
	<8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A653CD@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
	<396E31F210C241CBAEED12E6E7462022@XPS>
Message-ID: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A65444@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>

Thanks for the ideas. I will evaluate and proceed.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 2:53 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem


<<Maybe not have a default vale and make it a required field?>>

 Make the field dirty in the OnCurrent event.

 Set it to null, then back to the default value.

 Or use can use Rocky's trick.   It would be far better though to have the
user explicitly indicate when they are done and just use a command button.

 As for why the original error, it's exactly for the reason the error states; you can't carry out the action at that particular time.  

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 03:03 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

That work great if a value is entered in the last field. If the user selects the default value it fails. Maybe not have a default vale and make it a required field?

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 11:31 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

You can close the form if you do it from the AfterUpdate event of the text box - I just tried that here.

Doug
--
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AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Wed Jan  6 17:52:57 2016
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2016 09:52:57 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem
In-Reply-To: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
References: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
Message-ID: <568DA8D9.342.87D9529@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Why the acSaveYes?

That means save any changes to the form, not changes to the data.


-- 
Stuart
On 6 Jan 2016 at 15:05, Kaup, Chester wrote:

> I have a data entry form tied to a table. When the data entry has been
> made in the last text box I want to close the form. I have the
> following event procedure on the exit event of the text box. I get an
> error message. I am not seeing what I am doing wrong. Thanks.
> 
> RunTime Error 2585
> This action can't be carried out while processing a form or report
> event.
> 
> Private Sub Not_defined_Exit(Cancel As Integer)
>     DoCmd.Close acForm, "frm Cisco Sands Input", acSaveYes
> End Sub
> 
> I tried adding this but it did not help
> 
> Private Sub Not_defined_AfterUpdate()
>     DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord
> End Sub
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Wed Jan  6 17:54:27 2016
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 15:54:27 -0800
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem
In-Reply-To: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A653CD@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
References: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com><BLU176-DS152DEC80C69AC37DF680B6F6F40@phx.gbl><8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64F35@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com><BLU176-DS188DC85929885F517F0318F6F40@phx.gbl><CAFa8Nki-a8GE+PDdTPPNGDAhELSVpv=3DHQ1vsmYXkZ77pzThA@mail.gmail.com>
	<8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A653CD@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
Message-ID: <3041BB422DA548A491718C217CC6D2E1@HAL9007>

That would solve the problem.

rocky
 

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Kaup, Chester
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 12:03 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

That work great if a value is entered in the last field. If the user selects
the default value it fails. Maybe not have a default vale and make it a
required field?

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Doug Steele
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 11:31 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

You can close the form if you do it from the AfterUpdate event of the text
box - I just tried that here.

Doug
--
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

--
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From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com  Thu Jan  7 07:22:46 2016
From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 13:22:46 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Closing form problem
In-Reply-To: <568DA8D9.342.87D9529@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A64DBA@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>
	<568DA8D9.342.87D9529@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <8E16E03987F1FD4FB0A9BEBF7CC160CB08A657BB@HOUEX11.kindermorgan.com>

Thank you for the insight.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 5:53 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing form problem

Why the acSaveYes?

That means save any changes to the form, not changes to the data.


--
Stuart
On 6 Jan 2016 at 15:05, Kaup, Chester wrote:

> I have a data entry form tied to a table. When the data entry has been 
> made in the last text box I want to close the form. I have the 
> following event procedure on the exit event of the text box. I get an 
> error message. I am not seeing what I am doing wrong. Thanks.
> 
> RunTime Error 2585
> This action can't be carried out while processing a form or report 
> event.
> 
> Private Sub Not_defined_Exit(Cancel As Integer)
>     DoCmd.Close acForm, "frm Cisco Sands Input", acSaveYes End Sub
> 
> I tried adding this but it did not help
> 
> Private Sub Not_defined_AfterUpdate()
>     DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord
> End Sub
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


-- 
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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From gustav at cactus.dk  Thu Jan 14 03:31:07 2016
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 09:31:07 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
 validation
Message-ID: <VI1PR06MB1584CAB1AF65F6EA4F5FA336CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi all

I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses yyyy-dd-mm format".

This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for date formats related to the US.
Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?

/gustav


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav Brock
Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Happy New Year to all.

I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date entry in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.

Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:

    http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS

The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a big role.

/gustav

________________________________________
Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>
Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full validation

Hi all

Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for 24-hour fool-proof input.
Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and wrote down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.

Here it is, including a demo ready to run:

    http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ

It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and the form's Error event.

/gustav 


From Lambert.Heenan at aig.com  Thu Jan 14 07:46:20 2016
From: Lambert.Heenan at aig.com (Heenan, Lambert)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:46:20 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
 validation
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB1584CAB1AF65F6EA4F5FA336CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584CAB1AF65F6EA4F5FA336CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <D2D5A45EB26EC34F8199762DC40FFAA86299AC76@PWGSMSLIVMBS10.mail.aig.net>

Like you say Gustav, it's the illogical mm/dd/yyyy here in the USA.  AFIK only the Japanese have a sensible date format - yyyy-mm-dd - allowing for chronological sorting of string date values.

Lambert

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 4:31 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Hi all

I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses yyyy-dd-mm format".

This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for date formats related to the US.
Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?

/gustav


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav Brock
Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Happy New Year to all.

I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date entry in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.

Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:

    http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS

The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a big role.

/gustav

________________________________________
Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>
Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full validation

Hi all

Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for 24-hour fool-proof input.
Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and wrote down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.

Here it is, including a demo ready to run:

    http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ

It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and the form's Error event.

/gustav 

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From charlotte.foust at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 07:51:47 2016
From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 05:51:47 -0800
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
	validation
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB1584CAB1AF65F6EA4F5FA336CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584CAB1AF65F6EA4F5FA336CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAH+Met9NTs9b4Bjdh8pdUx5MzVVZU3EH0SFcWWdcQGsJ6xSjUA@mail.gmail.com>

That's interesting, Gustav.  My part of the US uses mm/dd/yyyy, and to my
knowledge that is the standard. Certainly it's the standard in SQL. System
settings control the default date format, and your user might not have been
aware of that fact.  The dates themselves are stored as numeric values, not
formatted dates anyhow.

Charlotte

Charlotte Foust
(916) 206-4336

On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses yyyy-dd-mm
> format".
>
> This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for
> date formats related to the US.
> Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?
>
> /gustav
>
>
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af
> Gustav Brock
> Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47
> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving <
> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
> validation
>
> Happy New Year to all.
>
> I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date entry
> in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.
>
> Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:
>
>     http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS
>
> The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a big
> role.
>
> /gustav
>
> ________________________________________
> Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav
> Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>
> Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full validation
>
> Hi all
>
> Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for 24-hour
> fool-proof input.
> Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and
> wrote down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.
>
> Here it is, including a demo ready to run:
>
>     http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ
>
> It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and the
> form's Error event.
>
> /gustav
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From gustav at cactus.dk  Thu Jan 14 07:53:39 2016
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:53:39 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
 validation
Message-ID: <VI1PR06MB1584A0D1BCC6EBEB048CD98ACACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Lambert

Sweden also uses the yyyy-mm-dd format widely, and here it is an official and recommended standard but very few uses it - most stick to the old dd-mm-yyyy format.

The yyyy-dd-mm seems just too odd to me.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Heenan, Lambert
Sendt: 14. januar 2016 14:46
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Like you say Gustav, it's the illogical mm/dd/yyyy here in the USA.  AFIK only the Japanese have a sensible date format - yyyy-mm-dd - allowing for chronological sorting of string date values.

Lambert

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 4:31 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Hi all

I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses yyyy-dd-mm format".

This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for date formats related to the US.
Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?

/gustav 


From jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Jan 14 08:07:46 2016
From: jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk (James Button)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 14:07:46 -0000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
	validation
In-Reply-To: <D2D5A45EB26EC34F8199762DC40FFAA86299AC76@PWGSMSLIVMBS10.mail.aig.net>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584CAB1AF65F6EA4F5FA336CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<D2D5A45EB26EC34F8199762DC40FFAA86299AC76@PWGSMSLIVMBS10.mail.aig.net>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAO8VDlNCBfdEkctCy61lm0HCgAAAEAAAAK21MAdyU99Jh8mrk/vwl6QBAAAAAA==@blueyonder.co.uk>

That is one I have not come across - however there is (apparently) Kazakhstan 
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

And, for those with input from countries that are not - by definition -
'Christian', there are other dating considerations because they will not be
working from the 'Birthday of Christ'
- Consider Thailand

Consequently - any dates in such countries should be accompanied with a
definition statement that dates are  'international format = 'yyyy/mm/dd' 
And for politeness - do not include the 'AD' or 'BC' bit associated with the
date.

Yes = almost all those making reasonably regular use of computer(s) will be
aware of the 'international' date - but ...
 That is not everybody - especially in the 'not- anglicised' countries.

JimB
 


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan,
Lambert
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 1:46 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Like you say Gustav, it's the illogical mm/dd/yyyy here in the USA.  AFIK only
the Japanese have a sensible date format - yyyy-mm-dd - allowing for
chronological sorting of string date values.

Lambert

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav
Brock
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 4:31 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Hi all

I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses yyyy-dd-mm
format".

This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for date
formats related to the US.
Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?

/gustav


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav
Brock
Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Happy New Year to all.

I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date entry in
the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.

Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:

    http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS

The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a big role.

/gustav

________________________________________
Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav Brock
<gustav at cactus.dk>
Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full validation

Hi all

Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for 24-hour
fool-proof input.
Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and wrote
down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.

Here it is, including a demo ready to run:

    http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ

It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and the form's
Error event.

/gustav 

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From gustav at cactus.dk  Thu Jan 14 08:08:35 2016
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 14:08:35 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
 validation
Message-ID: <VI1PR06MB1584728F486A75DDBBFE5382CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Charlotte

So do you know of any part of the US not using the mm/dd/yyyy format?
Is this reader just way off - on some outpost in Alaska or the Atlantic Ocean?

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Charlotte Foust
Sendt: 14. januar 2016 14:52
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

That's interesting, Gustav.  My part of the US uses mm/dd/yyyy, and to my knowledge that is the standard. Certainly it's the standard in SQL. System settings control the default date format, and your user might not have been aware of that fact.  The dates themselves are stored as numeric values, not formatted dates anyhow.

Charlotte

Charlotte Foust
(916) 206-4336

On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses 
> yyyy-dd-mm format".
>
> This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for 
> date formats related to the US.
> Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?
>
> /gustav 


From df.waters at outlook.com  Thu Jan 14 08:13:20 2016
From: df.waters at outlook.com (Dan Waters)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 08:13:20 -0600
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
	validation
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB1584CAB1AF65F6EA4F5FA336CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584CAB1AF65F6EA4F5FA336CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BLU176-DS19B814C2C699DCBB636254F6CC0@phx.gbl>

Hi Gustav,

This format doesn't make sense, but is the reverse of what is typically used
in the US (mm-dd-yyyy).  I'm going to guess that someone had a momentary
bout of dyslexia and just read it backwards.  

I like using yyyy-mm-dd whenever I can just because it sorts correctly.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 3:31 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
validation

Hi all

I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses yyyy-dd-mm
format".

This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for date
formats related to the US.
Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?

/gustav


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af
Gustav Brock
Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Happy New Year to all.

I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date entry
in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.

Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:

    http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS

The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a big
role.

/gustav

________________________________________
Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav Brock
<gustav at cactus.dk>
Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full validation

Hi all

Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for 24-hour
fool-proof input.
Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and wrote
down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.

Here it is, including a demo ready to run:

    http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ

It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and the
form's Error event.

/gustav 

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From peter at galley.ie  Thu Jan 14 08:38:46 2016
From: peter at galley.ie (Peter Hirons)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 14:38:46 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
 validation
In-Reply-To: <BLU176-DS19B814C2C699DCBB636254F6CC0@phx.gbl>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584CAB1AF65F6EA4F5FA336CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<BLU176-DS19B814C2C699DCBB636254F6CC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e996877f5f07d3db1f1a89ae02f564ce@galley.ie>

Actually, what doesn't make sense is the mm-dd-yyyy layout. When you see 
01-05-2016 you can't be sure if it's 5th Jan or 1st May that the rest of 
the world would assume.

yyyy-mm-dd will be understood the world over and I, for one, would like 
it universally adopted.  Even countries that do not normally use the 
calendar based on some event around 2000 years ago will still 
understand.

---


Peter

On 2016-01-14 14:13, Dan Waters wrote:
> Hi Gustav,
> 
> This format doesn't make sense, but is the reverse of what is typically 
> used
> in the US (mm-dd-yyyy).  I'm going to guess that someone had a 
> momentary
> bout of dyslexia and just read it backwards.
> 
> I like using yyyy-mm-dd whenever I can just because it sorts correctly.
> 
> Dan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf 
> Of
> Gustav Brock
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 3:31 AM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
> validation
> 
> Hi all
> 
> I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses 
> yyyy-dd-mm
> format".
> 
> This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for 
> date
> formats related to the US.
> Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af
> Gustav Brock
> Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47
> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full 
> validation
> 
> Happy New Year to all.
> 
> I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date 
> entry
> in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.
> 
> Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:
> 
>     http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS
> 
> The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a big
> role.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> ________________________________________
> Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav 
> Brock
> <gustav at cactus.dk>
> Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full 
> validation
> 
> Hi all
> 
> Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for 
> 24-hour
> fool-proof input.
> Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and 
> wrote
> down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.
> 
> Here it is, including a demo ready to run:
> 
>     http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ
> 
> It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and 
> the
> form's Error event.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From ssharkins at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 08:44:33 2016
From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 09:44:33 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
	validation
In-Reply-To: <e996877f5f07d3db1f1a89ae02f564ce@galley.ie>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584CAB1AF65F6EA4F5FA336CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>	<BLU176-DS19B814C2C699DCBB636254F6CC0@phx.gbl>
	<e996877f5f07d3db1f1a89ae02f564ce@galley.ie>
Message-ID: <000001d14eda$15ef0cc0$41cd2640$@gmail.com>

But how do we speak these days? In the US, we "say" January fifth, 2016. We don't say, 2016, January 5 or the fifth day of January 2016. So, why would we write it any differently? Does any culture speak the year first? 

Why is the year first more easily understood? Only because someone likes it that way -- there's no inherent property that makes it this way. 

Susan H. 

Actually, what doesn't make sense is the mm-dd-yyyy layout. When you see
01-05-2016 you can't be sure if it's 5th Jan or 1st May that the rest of the world would assume.

yyyy-mm-dd will be understood the world over and I, for one, would like it universally adopted.  Even countries that do not normally use the calendar based on some event around 2000 years ago will still understand.

---


Peter

On 2016-01-14 14:13, Dan Waters wrote:
> Hi Gustav,
> 
> This format doesn't make sense, but is the reverse of what is 
> typically used in the US (mm-dd-yyyy).  I'm going to guess that 
> someone had a momentary bout of dyslexia and just read it backwards.
> 
> I like using yyyy-mm-dd whenever I can just because it sorts correctly.
> 
> Dan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf 
> Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 3:31 AM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full 
> validation
> 
> Hi all
> 
> I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses 
> yyyy-dd-mm format".
> 
> This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for 
> date formats related to the US.
> Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af 
> Gustav Brock
> Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47
> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving 
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full 
> validation
> 
> Happy New Year to all.
> 
> I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date 
> entry in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.
> 
> Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:
> 
>     http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS
> 
> The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a 
> big role.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> ________________________________________
> Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav 
> Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>
> Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full 
> validation
> 
> Hi all
> 
> Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for 
> 24-hour fool-proof input.
> Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and 
> wrote down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.
> 
> Here it is, including a demo ready to run:
> 
>     http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ
> 
> It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and 
> the form's Error event.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
--
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From djkr at msn.com  Thu Jan 14 08:55:04 2016
From: djkr at msn.com (DJK (John) Robinson)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 14:55:04 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and
	fullvalidation
In-Reply-To: <000001d14eda$15ef0cc0$41cd2640$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU436-SMTP55D981246D7CD609C40C3CD2CC0@phx.gbl>

You don't say "the fourth of July"?

John


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins
Sent: 14 January 2016 14:45
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and fullvalidation


But how do we speak these days? In the US, we "say" January fifth, 2016. We don't say, 2016, January 5 or the fifth day
of January 2016. So, why would we write it any differently? Does any culture speak the year first? 

Why is the year first more easily understood? Only because someone likes it that way -- there's no inherent property
that makes it this way. 

Susan H. 

Actually, what doesn't make sense is the mm-dd-yyyy layout. When you see 01-05-2016 you can't be sure if it's 5th Jan or
1st May that the rest of the world would assume.

yyyy-mm-dd will be understood the world over and I, for one, would like it universally adopted.  Even countries that do
not normally use the calendar based on some event around 2000 years ago will still understand.

---


Peter

On 2016-01-14 14:13, Dan Waters wrote:
> Hi Gustav,
> 
> This format doesn't make sense, but is the reverse of what is
> typically used in the US (mm-dd-yyyy).  I'm going to guess that 
> someone had a momentary bout of dyslexia and just read it backwards.
> 
> I like using yyyy-mm-dd whenever I can just because it sorts 
> correctly.
> 
> Dan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf
> Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 3:31 AM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full 
> validation
> 
> Hi all
> 
> I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses
> yyyy-dd-mm format".
> 
> This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for
> date formats related to the US.
> Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af
> Gustav Brock
> Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47
> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving 
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full 
> validation
> 
> Happy New Year to all.
> 
> I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date
> entry in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.
> 
> Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:
> 
>     http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS
> 
> The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a
> big role.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> ________________________________________
> Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav
> Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>
> Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full 
> validation
> 
> Hi all
> 
> Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for
> 24-hour fool-proof input.
> Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and 
> wrote down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.
> 
> Here it is, including a demo ready to run:
> 
>     http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ
> 
> It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and
> the form's Error event.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com 
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
--
AccessD mailing list
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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From peter at galley.ie  Thu Jan 14 08:58:28 2016
From: peter at galley.ie (Peter Hirons)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 14:58:28 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
 validation
In-Reply-To: <000001d14eda$15ef0cc0$41cd2640$@gmail.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584CAB1AF65F6EA4F5FA336CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<BLU176-DS19B814C2C699DCBB636254F6CC0@phx.gbl>
	<e996877f5f07d3db1f1a89ae02f564ce@galley.ie>
	<000001d14eda$15ef0cc0$41cd2640$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2f3890187e8d2ac392f055f689fb1375@galley.ie>

The year-first style is unambiguous and, as others have said, will sort 
correctly.

Maybe we should train you colonials to say 5th of January :-)

---


Peter

On 2016-01-14 14:44, Susan Harkins wrote:
> But how do we speak these days? In the US, we "say" January fifth,
> 2016. We don't say, 2016, January 5 or the fifth day of January 2016.
> So, why would we write it any differently? Does any culture speak the
> year first?
> 
> Why is the year first more easily understood? Only because someone
> likes it that way -- there's no inherent property that makes it this
> way.
> 
> Susan H.
> 
> Actually, what doesn't make sense is the mm-dd-yyyy layout. When you 
> see
> 01-05-2016 you can't be sure if it's 5th Jan or 1st May that the rest
> of the world would assume.
> 
> yyyy-mm-dd will be understood the world over and I, for one, would
> like it universally adopted.  Even countries that do not normally use
> the calendar based on some event around 2000 years ago will still
> understand.
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> Peter
> 
> On 2016-01-14 14:13, Dan Waters wrote:
>> Hi Gustav,
>> 
>> This format doesn't make sense, but is the reverse of what is
>> typically used in the US (mm-dd-yyyy).  I'm going to guess that
>> someone had a momentary bout of dyslexia and just read it backwards.
>> 
>> I like using yyyy-mm-dd whenever I can just because it sorts 
>> correctly.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf
>> Of Gustav Brock
>> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 3:31 AM
>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
>> validation
>> 
>> Hi all
>> 
>> I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses
>> yyyy-dd-mm format".
>> 
>> This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for
>> date formats related to the US.
>> Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?
>> 
>> /gustav
>> 
>> 
>> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>> Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af
>> Gustav Brock
>> Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47
>> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>> Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
>> validation
>> 
>> Happy New Year to all.
>> 
>> I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date
>> entry in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.
>> 
>> Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:
>> 
>>     http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS
>> 
>> The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a
>> big role.
>> 
>> /gustav
>> 
>> ________________________________________
>> Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav
>> Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>
>> Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
>> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>> Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full
>> validation
>> 
>> Hi all
>> 
>> Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for
>> 24-hour fool-proof input.
>> Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and
>> wrote down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.
>> 
>> Here it is, including a demo ready to run:
>> 
>>     http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ
>> 
>> It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and
>> the form's Error event.
>> 
>> /gustav
>> 
>> --
>> AccessD mailing list
>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From ssharkins at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 09:19:48 2016
From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 10:19:48 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask
	and	fullvalidation
In-Reply-To: <BLU436-SMTP55D981246D7CD609C40C3CD2CC0@phx.gbl>
References: <000001d14eda$15ef0cc0$41cd2640$@gmail.com>
	<BLU436-SMTP55D981246D7CD609C40C3CD2CC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001201d14edf$0234bfe0$069e3fa0$@gmail.com>

As a holiday yes. 

Susan H. 


You don't say "the fourth of July"?

John


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Susan Harkins
Sent: 14 January 2016 14:45
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and
fullvalidation


But how do we speak these days? In the US, we "say" January fifth, 2016. We
don't say, 2016, January 5 or the fifth day of January 2016. So, why would
we write it any differently? Does any culture speak the year first? 

Why is the year first more easily understood? Only because someone likes it
that way -- there's no inherent property that makes it this way. 

Susan H. 

Actually, what doesn't make sense is the mm-dd-yyyy layout. When you see
01-05-2016 you can't be sure if it's 5th Jan or 1st May that the rest of the
world would assume.

yyyy-mm-dd will be understood the world over and I, for one, would like it
universally adopted.  Even countries that do not normally use the calendar
based on some event around 2000 years ago will still understand.

---


Peter

On 2016-01-14 14:13, Dan Waters wrote:
> Hi Gustav,
> 
> This format doesn't make sense, but is the reverse of what is 
> typically used in the US (mm-dd-yyyy).  I'm going to guess that 
> someone had a momentary bout of dyslexia and just read it backwards.
> 
> I like using yyyy-mm-dd whenever I can just because it sorts 
> correctly.
> 
> Dan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf 
> Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 3:31 AM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full 
> validation
> 
> Hi all
> 
> I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses 
> yyyy-dd-mm format".
> 
> This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for 
> date formats related to the US.
> Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af 
> Gustav Brock
> Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47
> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving 
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full 
> validation
> 
> Happy New Year to all.
> 
> I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date 
> entry in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.
> 
> Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:
> 
>     http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS
> 
> The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a 
> big role.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> ________________________________________
> Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav 
> Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>
> Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full 
> validation
> 
> Hi all
> 
> Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for 
> 24-hour fool-proof input.
> Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and 
> wrote down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.
> 
> Here it is, including a demo ready to run:
> 
>     http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ
> 
> It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and 
> the form's Error event.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
--
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http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


--
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http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Thu Jan 14 15:26:46 2016
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 07:26:46 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
	validation
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAO8VDlNCBfdEkctCy61lm0HCgAAAEAAAAK21MAdyU99Jh8mrk/vwl6QBAAAAAA==@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <56981296.23993.312A82E7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

If you have to specify the era,  AD and BC  have been replaced( in politically correct speak) 
with CE (Common Era) and BCE (Before Common Era)  

-- 
Stuart


On 14 Jan 2016 at 14:07, James Button wrote:

> That is one I have not come across - however there is (apparently)
> Kazakhstan See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country
> 
> And, for those with input from countries that are not - by definition
> - 'Christian', there are other dating considerations because they will
> not be working from the 'Birthday of Christ' - Consider Thailand
> 
> Consequently - any dates in such countries should be accompanied with
> a definition statement that dates are  'international format =
> 'yyyy/mm/dd' And for politeness - do not include the 'AD' or 'BC' bit
> associated with the date.
> 
> Yes = almost all those making reasonably regular use of computer(s)
> will be aware of the 'international' date - but ...
>  That is not everybody - especially in the 'not- anglicised'
>  countries.
> 
> JimB
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf
> Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 1:46 PM To: Access
> Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD]
> Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation
> 
> Like you say Gustav, it's the illogical mm/dd/yyyy here in the USA. 
> AFIK only the Japanese have a sensible date format - yyyy-mm-dd -
> allowing for chronological sorting of string date values.
> 
> Lambert
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf
> Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 4:31 AM To: Access
> Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD]
> Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation
> 
> Hi all
> 
> I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses
> yyyy-dd-mm format".
> 
> This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for
> date formats related to the US. Can anyone confirm the use of the
> yyyy-dd-mm format?
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af
> Gustav Brock Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47 Til: Access Developers
> discussion and problem solving <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Emne:
> Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation
> 
> Happy New Year to all.
> 
> I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date
> entry in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.
> 
> Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:
> 
>     http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS
> 
> The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a
> big role.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> ________________________________________
> Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav
> Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07 Til: Access
> Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Entering
> 24-hour time with input mask and full validation
> 
> Hi all
> 
> Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for
> 24-hour fool-proof input. Recently, I had this need again, so I
> brushed it up for A2013/2016 and wrote down the thoughts behind as a
> note on Experts-Exchange.
> 
> Here it is, including a demo ready to run:
> 
>     http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ
> 
> It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and
> the form's Error event.
> 
> /gustav 
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Thu Jan 14 15:32:24 2016
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 07:32:24 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
	validation
In-Reply-To: <e996877f5f07d3db1f1a89ae02f564ce@galley.ie>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584CAB1AF65F6EA4F5FA336CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>,
	<BLU176-DS19B814C2C699DCBB636254F6CC0@phx.gbl>,
	<e996877f5f07d3db1f1a89ae02f564ce@galley.ie>
Message-ID: <569813E8.4459.312FAE0C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Dan was referring to yyyy-DD-MM  :)

On 14 Jan 2016 at 14:38, Peter Hirons wrote:

> Actually, what doesn't make sense is the mm-dd-yyyy layout. When you
> see 01-05-2016 you can't be sure if it's 5th Jan or 1st May that the
> rest of the world would assume.
> 
> yyyy-mm-dd will be understood the world over and I, for one, would
> like it universally adopted.  Even countries that do not normally use
> the calendar based on some event around 2000 years ago will still
> understand.
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> Peter
> 
> On 2016-01-14 14:13, Dan Waters wrote:
> > Hi Gustav,
> > 
> > This format doesn't make sense, but is the reverse of what is
> > typically used in the US (mm-dd-yyyy).  I'm going to guess that
> > someone had a momentary bout of dyslexia and just read it backwards.
> > 
> > I like using yyyy-mm-dd whenever I can just because it sorts
> > correctly.
> > 
> > Dan
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On
> > Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 3:31 AM To:
> > Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re:
> > [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation
> > 
> > Hi all
> > 
> > I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses
> > yyyy-dd-mm format".
> > 
> > This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy
> > for date formats related to the US. Can anyone confirm the use of
> > the yyyy-dd-mm format?
> > 
> > /gustav
> > 
> > 
> > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> > Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne
> > af Gustav Brock Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47 Til: Access Developers
> > discussion and problem solving <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Emne:
> > Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
> > validation
> > 
> > Happy New Year to all.
> > 
> > I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date
> > entry in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.
> > 
> > Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:
> > 
> >     http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS
> > 
> > The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a
> > big role.
> > 
> > /gustav
> > 
> > ________________________________________
> > Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af
> > Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07 Til:
> > Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD]
> > Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full validation
> > 
> > Hi all
> > 
> > Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for
> > 24-hour fool-proof input. Recently, I had this need again, so I
> > brushed it up for A2013/2016 and wrote down the thoughts behind as a
> > note on Experts-Exchange.
> > 
> > Here it is, including a demo ready to run:
> > 
> >     http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ
> > 
> > It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event,
> > and the form's Error event.
> > 
> > /gustav
> > 
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From jwelz at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 14 15:50:25 2016
From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 21:50:25 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and
	full	validation
In-Reply-To: <000001d14eda$15ef0cc0$41cd2640$@gmail.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584CAB1AF65F6EA4F5FA336CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<BLU176-DS19B814C2C699DCBB636254F6CC0@phx.gbl>
	<e996877f5f07d3db1f1a89ae02f564ce@galley.ie>,
	<000001d14eda$15ef0cc0$41cd2640$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BY2PR16MB02319065404CA26E6D85C978A1CC0@BY2PR16MB0231.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>


In French, they say 99 as quatre vingt dix neuf, or four twenty ten nine.  In English, one says 987,654,321 as nine hundred eighty seven million, six hundred fifty four thousand, three hundred twenty one.  How much sense would it make to say the niddle block first, the last and then the first?  That's the Sql standard.
Better yet, do the same with each block of three digits. You'd have to say fifty four and six hundred thousand, twenty one and three hundred, eighty seven and nine hundred million. There's your Sql standard.

The reason you say month - day in speech is that the year is implicitly the current year in common usage and that has become habit applied to historical and future dates. You can see the same issue with addresses. If i give out an address to a personal acquaintance, the address implies galaxy, planet, country, state/province, city.  What i give as an address is progressively more specific after the implicit portions.

In terns of sorting data, it only makes sense to begin with the largest or grossest division to be considered in a data set. The only reasonable order for dates is year, month, day, hour, minute....

Look up how many countries in the world don't primarily use the metric system and perhaps question why US Microsoft standardizes on yyyy-mm-dd.   Oh, I think I understand your comment.

Jurgen Welz
________________________________________
From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> on behalf of Susan Harkins <ssharkins at gmail.com>
Sent: January 14, 2016 7:44:33 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full    validation

But how do we speak these days? In the US, we "say" January fifth, 2016. We don't say, 2016, January 5 or the fifth day of January 2016. So, why would we write it any differently? Does any culture speak the year first?

Why is the year first more easily understood? Only because someone likes it that way -- there's no inherent property that makes it this way.

Susan H.

Actually, what doesn't make sense is the mm-dd-yyyy layout. When you see
01-05-2016 you can't be sure if it's 5th Jan or 1st May that the rest of the world would assume.

yyyy-mm-dd will be understood the world over and I, for one, would like it universally adopted.  Even countries that do not normally use the calendar based on some event around 2000 years ago will still understand.

---


Peter

On 2016-01-14 14:13, Dan Waters wrote:
> Hi Gustav,
>
> This format doesn't make sense, but is the reverse of what is
> typically used in the US (mm-dd-yyyy).  I'm going to guess that
> someone had a momentary bout of dyslexia and just read it backwards.
>
> I like using yyyy-mm-dd whenever I can just because it sorts correctly.
>
> Dan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf
> Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 3:31 AM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
> validation
>
> Hi all
>
> I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses
> yyyy-dd-mm format".
>
> This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for
> date formats related to the US.
> Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?
>
> /gustav
>
>
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af
> Gustav Brock
> Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47
> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
> validation
>
> Happy New Year to all.
>
> I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date
> entry in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.
>
> Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:
>
>     http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS
>
> The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a
> big role.
>
> /gustav
>
> ________________________________________
> Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav
> Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>
> Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full
> validation
>
> Hi all
>
> Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for
> 24-hour fool-proof input.
> Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and
> wrote down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.
>
> Here it is, including a demo ready to run:
>
>     http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ
>
> It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and
> the form's Error event.
>
> /gustav
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
--
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


--
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From df.waters at outlook.com  Thu Jan 14 15:53:27 2016
From: df.waters at outlook.com (Dan Waters)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:53:27 -0600
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and
	full	validation
In-Reply-To: <569813E8.4459.312FAE0C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584CAB1AF65F6EA4F5FA336CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>,
	<BLU176-DS19B814C2C699DCBB636254F6CC0@phx.gbl>,
	<e996877f5f07d3db1f1a89ae02f564ce@galley.ie>
	<569813E8.4459.312FAE0C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <BLU176-DS17E7E4FFD73E7F73416E57F6CC0@phx.gbl>

Actually no - I was referring to Year-Month-Day (yyyy-mm-dd) because it's
easily sortable.

Did you mean something about how Caps affect formatting?

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 3:32 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
validation

Dan was referring to yyyy-DD-MM  :)

On 14 Jan 2016 at 14:38, Peter Hirons wrote:

> Actually, what doesn't make sense is the mm-dd-yyyy layout. When you 
> see 01-05-2016 you can't be sure if it's 5th Jan or 1st May that the 
> rest of the world would assume.
> 
> yyyy-mm-dd will be understood the world over and I, for one, would 
> like it universally adopted.  Even countries that do not normally use 
> the calendar based on some event around 2000 years ago will still 
> understand.
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> Peter
> 
> On 2016-01-14 14:13, Dan Waters wrote:
> > Hi Gustav,
> > 
> > This format doesn't make sense, but is the reverse of what is 
> > typically used in the US (mm-dd-yyyy).  I'm going to guess that 
> > someone had a momentary bout of dyslexia and just read it backwards.
> > 
> > I like using yyyy-mm-dd whenever I can just because it sorts 
> > correctly.
> > 
> > Dan
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On 
> > Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 3:31 AM To:
> > Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re:
> > [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation
> > 
> > Hi all
> > 
> > I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses 
> > yyyy-dd-mm format".
> > 
> > This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy 
> > for date formats related to the US. Can anyone confirm the use of 
> > the yyyy-dd-mm format?
> > 
> > /gustav
> > 
> > 
> > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> > Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne 
> > af Gustav Brock Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47 Til: Access Developers 
> > discussion and problem solving <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Emne:
> > Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full 
> > validation
> > 
> > Happy New Year to all.
> > 
> > I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date 
> > entry in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.
> > 
> > Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:
> > 
> >     http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS
> > 
> > The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a 
> > big role.
> > 
> > /gustav
> > 
> > ________________________________________
> > Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af 
> > Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07 Til:
> > Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] 
> > Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full validation
> > 
> > Hi all
> > 
> > Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for 
> > 24-hour fool-proof input. Recently, I had this need again, so I 
> > brushed it up for A2013/2016 and wrote down the thoughts behind as a 
> > note on Experts-Exchange.
> > 
> > Here it is, including a demo ready to run:
> > 
> >     http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ
> > 
> > It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, 
> > and the form's Error event.
> > 
> > /gustav
> > 
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Thu Jan 14 16:09:08 2016
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 08:09:08 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
	validation
In-Reply-To: <BLU176-DS17E7E4FFD73E7F73416E57F6CC0@phx.gbl>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584CAB1AF65F6EA4F5FA336CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>,
	<569813E8.4459.312FAE0C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<BLU176-DS17E7E4FFD73E7F73416E57F6CC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <56981C84.31529.31514EED@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

A bit of confusion somewhere here.

Gustav said 
" I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses yyyy-dd-mm format".  

You then said:
"This format doesn't make sense, but is the reverse of what is typically used in the US (mm-dd-yyyy). "

So it seemd to me that you were referring to yyyy-dd-mm.
I just capitalised to emphasise the difference between yyyy-dd-mm and yyyy-mm-dd.

Never mind.

-- 
Stuart


On 14 Jan 2016 at 15:53, Dan Waters wrote:

> Actually no - I was referring to Year-Month-Day (yyyy-mm-dd) because
> it's easily sortable.
> 
> Did you mean something about how Caps affect formatting?
> 
> Dan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf
> Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 3:32 PM To:
> Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re:
> [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation
> 
> Dan was referring to yyyy-DD-MM  :)
> 
> On 14 Jan 2016 at 14:38, Peter Hirons wrote:
> 
> > Actually, what doesn't make sense is the mm-dd-yyyy layout. When you
> > see 01-05-2016 you can't be sure if it's 5th Jan or 1st May that the
> > rest of the world would assume.
> > 
> > yyyy-mm-dd will be understood the world over and I, for one, would
> > like it universally adopted.  Even countries that do not normally
> > use the calendar based on some event around 2000 years ago will
> > still understand.
> > 
> > ---
> > 
> > 
> > Peter
> > 
> > On 2016-01-14 14:13, Dan Waters wrote:
> > > Hi Gustav,
> > > 
> > > This format doesn't make sense, but is the reverse of what is
> > > typically used in the US (mm-dd-yyyy).  I'm going to guess that
> > > someone had a momentary bout of dyslexia and just read it
> > > backwards.
> > > 
> > > I like using yyyy-mm-dd whenever I can just because it sorts
> > > correctly.
> > > 
> > > Dan
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On
> > > Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 3:31 AM
> > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re:
> > > [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation
> > > 
> > > Hi all
> > > 
> > > I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses
> > > yyyy-dd-mm format".
> > > 
> > > This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy
> > > for date formats related to the US. Can anyone confirm the use of
> > > the yyyy-dd-mm format?
> > > 
> > > /gustav
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> > > Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P?
> > > vegne af Gustav Brock Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47 Til: Access
> > > Developers discussion and problem solving
> > > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO
> > > date with input mask and full validation
> > > 
> > > Happy New Year to all.
> > > 
> > > I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a
> > > date entry in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.
> > > 
> > > Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:
> > > 
> > >     http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS
> > > 
> > > The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays
> > > a big role.
> > > 
> > > /gustav
> > > 
> > > ________________________________________
> > > Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af
> > > Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
> > > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne:
> > > [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full
> > > validation
> > > 
> > > Hi all
> > > 
> > > Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for
> > > 24-hour fool-proof input. Recently, I had this need again, so I
> > > brushed it up for A2013/2016 and wrote down the thoughts behind as
> > > a note on Experts-Exchange.
> > > 
> > > Here it is, including a demo ready to run:
> > > 
> > >     http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ
> > > 
> > > It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event,
> > > and the form's Error event.
> > > 
> > > /gustav
> > > 
> > > --
> > > AccessD mailing list
> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Jan 15 04:38:53 2016
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 10:38:53 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
 validation
Message-ID: <VI1PR06MB15849775C6D4D3103536FDBECACD0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi all

Thank you for all the comments.
May I conclude that the reader is wrong when he states that the format yyyy-dd-mm should be in use in the US?
In fact, according to WikiPedia, it isn't used anywhere, it doesn't even exist.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af James Button
Sendt: 14. januar 2016 15:08
Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

That is one I have not come across - however there is (apparently) Kazakhstan See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

And, for those with input from countries that are not - by definition - 'Christian', there are other dating considerations because they will not be working from the 'Birthday of Christ'
- Consider Thailand

Consequently - any dates in such countries should be accompanied with a definition statement that dates are  'international format = 'yyyy/mm/dd' 
And for politeness - do not include the 'AD' or 'BC' bit associated with the date.

Yes = almost all those making reasonably regular use of computer(s) will be aware of the 'international' date - but ...
 That is not everybody - especially in the 'not- anglicised' countries.

JimB
 


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 1:46 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Like you say Gustav, it's the illogical mm/dd/yyyy here in the USA.  AFIK only the Japanese have a sensible date format - yyyy-mm-dd - allowing for chronological sorting of string date values.

Lambert

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 4:31 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Hi all

I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses yyyy-dd-mm format".

This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for date formats related to the US.
Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?

/gustav


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav Brock
Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Happy New Year to all.

I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date entry in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.

Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:

    http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS

The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a big role.

/gustav

________________________________________
Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>
Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full validation

Hi all

Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for 24-hour fool-proof input.
Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and wrote down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.

Here it is, including a demo ready to run:

    http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ

It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and the form's Error event.

/gustav 


From jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jan 15 05:02:49 2016
From: jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk (James Button)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 11:02:49 -0000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
	validation
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB15849775C6D4D3103536FDBECACD0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB15849775C6D4D3103536FDBECACD0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAO8VDlNCBfdEkctCy61lm0HCgAAAEAAAACZV8FPAId9EhjKURznab1oBAAAAAA==@blueyonder.co.uk>

Repost for those who missed my earlier post, and didn't find the WikiPedia link



That is one I have not come across - however there is (apparently) Kazakhstan 
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

And, for those with input from countries that are not - by definition -
'Christian', there are other dating considerations because they will not be
working from the 'Birthday of Christ'
- Consider Thailand

Consequently - any dates in such countries should be accompanied with a
definition statement that dates are  'international format = 'yyyy/mm/dd' 
And for politeness - do not include the 'AD' or 'BC' bit associated with the
date.

Yes = almost all those making reasonably regular use of computer(s) will be
aware of the 'international' date - but ...
 That is not everybody - especially in the 'not- anglicised' countries.

JimB

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav
Brock
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 10:39 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Hi all

Thank you for all the comments.
May I conclude that the reader is wrong when he states that the format
yyyy-dd-mm should be in use in the US?
In fact, according to WikiPedia, it isn't used anywhere, it doesn't even exist.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af James
Button
Sendt: 14. januar 2016 15:08
Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

That is one I have not come across - however there is (apparently) Kazakhstan
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

And, for those with input from countries that are not - by definition -
'Christian', there are other dating considerations because they will not be
working from the 'Birthday of Christ'
- Consider Thailand

Consequently - any dates in such countries should be accompanied with a
definition statement that dates are  'international format = 'yyyy/mm/dd' 
And for politeness - do not include the 'AD' or 'BC' bit associated with the
date.

Yes = almost all those making reasonably regular use of computer(s) will be
aware of the 'international' date - but ...
 That is not everybody - especially in the 'not- anglicised' countries.

JimB
 


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan,
Lambert
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 1:46 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Like you say Gustav, it's the illogical mm/dd/yyyy here in the USA.  AFIK only
the Japanese have a sensible date format - yyyy-mm-dd - allowing for
chronological sorting of string date values.

Lambert

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav
Brock
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 4:31 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Hi all

I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses yyyy-dd-mm
format".

This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for date
formats related to the US.
Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?

/gustav


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav
Brock
Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Happy New Year to all.

I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date entry in
the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.

Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:

    http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS

The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a big role.

/gustav

________________________________________
Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav Brock
<gustav at cactus.dk>
Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full validation

Hi all

Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for 24-hour
fool-proof input.
Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and wrote
down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.

Here it is, including a demo ready to run:

    http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ

It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and the form's
Error event.

/gustav 

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Jan 15 05:08:54 2016
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 11:08:54 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
 validation
Message-ID: <VI1PR06MB1584DB635124F0A105449D09CACD0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi James

OK, missed that. Thanks.

So Kazakhstan may be the single place where this weird format is in use.
But that doesn't relate to the US.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af James Button
Sendt: 15. januar 2016 12:03
Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Repost for those who missed my earlier post, and didn't find the WikiPedia link



That is one I have not come across - however there is (apparently) Kazakhstan See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

And, for those with input from countries that are not - by definition - 'Christian', there are other dating considerations because they will not be working from the 'Birthday of Christ'
- Consider Thailand

Consequently - any dates in such countries should be accompanied with a definition statement that dates are  'international format = 'yyyy/mm/dd' 
And for politeness - do not include the 'AD' or 'BC' bit associated with the date.

Yes = almost all those making reasonably regular use of computer(s) will be aware of the 'international' date - but ...
 That is not everybody - especially in the 'not- anglicised' countries.

JimB

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 10:39 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Hi all

Thank you for all the comments.
May I conclude that the reader is wrong when he states that the format yyyy-dd-mm should be in use in the US?
In fact, according to WikiPedia, it isn't used anywhere, it doesn't even exist.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af James Button
Sendt: 14. januar 2016 15:08
Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

That is one I have not come across - however there is (apparently) Kazakhstan See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

And, for those with input from countries that are not - by definition - 'Christian', there are other dating considerations because they will not be working from the 'Birthday of Christ'
- Consider Thailand

Consequently - any dates in such countries should be accompanied with a definition statement that dates are  'international format = 'yyyy/mm/dd' 
And for politeness - do not include the 'AD' or 'BC' bit associated with the date.

Yes = almost all those making reasonably regular use of computer(s) will be aware of the 'international' date - but ...
 That is not everybody - especially in the 'not- anglicised' countries.

JimB
 


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 1:46 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Like you say Gustav, it's the illogical mm/dd/yyyy here in the USA.  AFIK only the Japanese have a sensible date format - yyyy-mm-dd - allowing for chronological sorting of string date values.

Lambert

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 4:31 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Hi all

I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses yyyy-dd-mm format".

This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for date formats related to the US.
Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?

/gustav


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav Brock
Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Happy New Year to all.

I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date entry in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.

Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:

    http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS

The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a big role.

/gustav

________________________________________
Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>
Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full validation

Hi all

Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for 24-hour fool-proof input.
Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and wrote down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.

Here it is, including a demo ready to run:

    http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ

It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and the form's Error event.

/gustav 


From jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jan 15 05:24:25 2016
From: jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk (James Button)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 11:24:25 -0000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
	validation
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB1584DB635124F0A105449D09CACD0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584DB635124F0A105449D09CACD0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAO8VDlNCBfdEkctCy61lm0HCgAAAEAAAAMUSNYXwY+BCt5MvVs3oi1IBAAAAAA==@blueyonder.co.uk>

Agreed, 
Unless, there is a Kazakhstani enclave somewhere in the USA that cleaves to the
old ways.

Then us Europeans are amongst those who have learnt to accept that others have
their own ways - and determinedly resist education in the proper ways of things,
even to the extent of inventing their own ways rather than doing things the way
they should be done.

JimB

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav
Brock
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 11:09 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Hi James

OK, missed that. Thanks.

So Kazakhstan may be the single place where this weird format is in use.
But that doesn't relate to the US.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af James
Button
Sendt: 15. januar 2016 12:03
Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Repost for those who missed my earlier post, and didn't find the WikiPedia link



That is one I have not come across - however there is (apparently) Kazakhstan
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

And, for those with input from countries that are not - by definition -
'Christian', there are other dating considerations because they will not be
working from the 'Birthday of Christ'
- Consider Thailand

Consequently - any dates in such countries should be accompanied with a
definition statement that dates are  'international format = 'yyyy/mm/dd' 
And for politeness - do not include the 'AD' or 'BC' bit associated with the
date.

Yes = almost all those making reasonably regular use of computer(s) will be
aware of the 'international' date - but ...
 That is not everybody - especially in the 'not- anglicised' countries.

JimB

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav
Brock
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 10:39 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Hi all

Thank you for all the comments.
May I conclude that the reader is wrong when he states that the format
yyyy-dd-mm should be in use in the US?
In fact, according to WikiPedia, it isn't used anywhere, it doesn't even exist.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af James
Button
Sendt: 14. januar 2016 15:08
Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

That is one I have not come across - however there is (apparently) Kazakhstan
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

And, for those with input from countries that are not - by definition -
'Christian', there are other dating considerations because they will not be
working from the 'Birthday of Christ'
- Consider Thailand

Consequently - any dates in such countries should be accompanied with a
definition statement that dates are  'international format = 'yyyy/mm/dd' 
And for politeness - do not include the 'AD' or 'BC' bit associated with the
date.

Yes = almost all those making reasonably regular use of computer(s) will be
aware of the 'international' date - but ...
 That is not everybody - especially in the 'not- anglicised' countries.

JimB
 


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan,
Lambert
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 1:46 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Like you say Gustav, it's the illogical mm/dd/yyyy here in the USA.  AFIK only
the Japanese have a sensible date format - yyyy-mm-dd - allowing for
chronological sorting of string date values.

Lambert

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav
Brock
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 4:31 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Hi all

I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses yyyy-dd-mm
format".

This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for date
formats related to the US.
Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?

/gustav


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav
Brock
Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

Happy New Year to all.

I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date entry in
the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.

Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:

    http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS

The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a big role.

/gustav

________________________________________
Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav Brock
<gustav at cactus.dk>
Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full validation

Hi all

Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for 24-hour
fool-proof input.
Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and wrote
down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.

Here it is, including a demo ready to run:

    http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ

It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and the form's
Error event.

/gustav 

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From davidmcafee at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 11:53:07 2016
From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 09:53:07 -0800
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
	validation
In-Reply-To: <000001d14eda$15ef0cc0$41cd2640$@gmail.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584CAB1AF65F6EA4F5FA336CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<BLU176-DS19B814C2C699DCBB636254F6CC0@phx.gbl>
	<e996877f5f07d3db1f1a89ae02f564ce@galley.ie>
	<000001d14eda$15ef0cc0$41cd2640$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMhYZWZJTsFpf+b42d3BZ98TTQReQCZ6-0egMFLekEsNZEQK8A@mail.gmail.com>

My sister, ex-military,  always says "I'll arrive 9 January and depart 5
February"

Drives me nuts :)
On Jan 14, 2016 6:45 AM, "Susan Harkins" <ssharkins at gmail.com> wrote:

> But how do we speak these days? In the US, we "say" January fifth, 2016.
> We don't say, 2016, January 5 or the fifth day of January 2016. So, why
> would we write it any differently? Does any culture speak the year first?
>
> Why is the year first more easily understood? Only because someone likes
> it that way -- there's no inherent property that makes it this way.
>
> Susan H.
>
> Actually, what doesn't make sense is the mm-dd-yyyy layout. When you see
> 01-05-2016 you can't be sure if it's 5th Jan or 1st May that the rest of
> the world would assume.
>
> yyyy-mm-dd will be understood the world over and I, for one, would like it
> universally adopted.  Even countries that do not normally use the calendar
> based on some event around 2000 years ago will still understand.
>
> ---
>
>
> Peter
>
> On 2016-01-14 14:13, Dan Waters wrote:
> > Hi Gustav,
> >
> > This format doesn't make sense, but is the reverse of what is
> > typically used in the US (mm-dd-yyyy).  I'm going to guess that
> > someone had a momentary bout of dyslexia and just read it backwards.
> >
> > I like using yyyy-mm-dd whenever I can just because it sorts correctly.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf
> > Of Gustav Brock
> > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 3:31 AM
> > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
> > validation
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> > I received a reader comment on this, claiming that "the US uses
> > yyyy-dd-mm format".
> >
> > This is new to me. I have never seen anything else than mm/dd/yyyy for
> > date formats related to the US.
> > Can anyone confirm the use of the yyyy-dd-mm format?
> >
> > /gustav
> >
> >
> > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> > Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af
> > Gustav Brock
> > Sendt: 1. januar 2016 19:47
> > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> > Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
> > validation
> >
> > Happy New Year to all.
> >
> > I've made a "sister" demo of the time entry textbox - now for a date
> > entry in the ISO yyyy-mm-dd format.
> >
> > Again, a demo is included, ready to download and run:
> >
> >     http://rdsrc.us/5xabOS
> >
> > The error catching is somewhat different, but the inputmask plays a
> > big role.
> >
> > /gustav
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> p? vegne af Gustav
> > Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>
> > Sendt: 11. december 2015 14:07
> > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> > Emne: [AccessD] Entering 24-hour time with input mask and full
> > validation
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> > Years ago - in Access 2.0 - I made a form with a bound textbox for
> > 24-hour fool-proof input.
> > Recently, I had this need again, so I brushed it up for A2013/2016 and
> > wrote down the thoughts behind as a note on Experts-Exchange.
> >
> > Here it is, including a demo ready to run:
> >
> >     http://rdsrc.us/Le82yJ
> >
> > It makes heavy use of an inputmask, the textbox's KeyPress event, and
> > the form's Error event.
> >
> > /gustav
> >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From ssharkins at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 12:13:00 2016
From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 13:13:00 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and
	full	validation
In-Reply-To: <CAMhYZWZJTsFpf+b42d3BZ98TTQReQCZ6-0egMFLekEsNZEQK8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584CAB1AF65F6EA4F5FA336CACC0@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>	<BLU176-DS19B814C2C699DCBB636254F6CC0@phx.gbl>	<e996877f5f07d3db1f1a89ae02f564ce@galley.ie>	<000001d14eda$15ef0cc0$41cd2640$@gmail.com>
	<CAMhYZWZJTsFpf+b42d3BZ98TTQReQCZ6-0egMFLekEsNZEQK8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00a801d1521b$de2709b0$9a751d10$@gmail.com>

My husband is retired military. He writes 9 January, but says January 9. :) 

Susan H. 

My sister, ex-military,  always says "I'll arrive 9 January and depart 5 February"

Drives me nuts :)



From gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Jan 18 12:38:07 2016
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 18:38:07 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
 validation
Message-ID: <VI1PR06MB1584A2086A3CF86D78DAFC0ECAC00@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Susan and David

And so is the logic. You would say ?224 Grand Aveny? while we always will say ?Big Street 224?.

/gustav

Fra: Susan Harkins<mailto:ssharkins at gmail.com>
Sendt: 18. januar 2016 19:13
Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'<mailto:accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

My husband is retired military. He writes 9 January, but says January 9. :)

Susan H.

My sister, ex-military,  always says "I'll arrive 9 January and depart 5 February"

Drives me nuts :)


From ssharkins at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 13:43:41 2016
From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 14:43:41 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
	validation
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB1584A2086A3CF86D78DAFC0ECAC00@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584A2086A3CF86D78DAFC0ECAC00@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <000c01d15228$899025f0$9cb071d0$@gmail.com>

I acknowledge that we all have different ways of expressing dates (verbally and written). I have never had the talent for understanding or speaking a foreign language. I can't even understand other Americans with accents! :) 

I have no problem entering, modifying, manipulating, grouping, or sorting dates entered in the US format Jan 1, 2016. I would imagine that cultures entering them differently can say the same thing. The software handles our needs. 

It's only when we have to work with dates not in our familiar zone that we run into trouble. If I were working in an organization that had to face this problem, I would hope to find a solution that was efficient and accurate, but I'm not sure I would spend much effort into trying to force those submitting dates in a "foreign" format into my culturally biased format unless of course, I had the power and money behind me to make it happen. :) I hope that makes sense and doesn't offend anyone. It's just an opinion and how, I think, I would deal with this if I had to. It's probably how most of you handle it -- you make it work. 

I often get questions from readers with similar dirty data issues and they want solutions for fixing the data. My first question is always the same -- can you take it back to the source and get them to submit it the way you need it in the first place? But you know, all too often, that isn't possible. 

So, I don't understand why this is always such a heated discussion or why any camp claims superiority. Dates are no different than any other data we have to accept and fix before we can use it. 

I say that all gently and with no judgement, just ... the way I see it. 

Susan H. 

Hi Susan and David

And so is the logic. You would say ?224 Grand Aveny? while we always will say ?Big Street 224?.

/gustav




From jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Jan 18 14:02:21 2016
From: jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk (James Button)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 20:02:21 -0000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and
	full	validation
In-Reply-To: <000c01d15228$899025f0$9cb071d0$@gmail.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584A2086A3CF86D78DAFC0ECAC00@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<000c01d15228$899025f0$9cb071d0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAO8VDlNCBfdEkctCy61lm0HCgAAAEAAAAGf1XWRxOFJHhGHwaPk83k8BAAAAAA==@blueyonder.co.uk>

Susan,
Pretty much agree with the sentiment below.

My problems arise when the data is not adequately validated or, in the case of numeric entry of dates, where the software does not easily allow differentiation of the users intention - especially when the users entering the data are from a wide range of ethnic backgrounds, and in many cases not experienced in IT assumptions.
However (probably from using interactive phones) it is increasingly becoming the case that even infants recognise date entry forms of _ _ _ _ /  _ _ / _ _ are to be entered as yyyy/mm/dd 

And .. while Access  does have some constraints, and data entry by 'users'  is usually limited to through forms, Excel is a real pain as the current versions no longer allow validation of data entered directly into a cell to have the input characters checked - you just get to see what Excel decided to generate as it interpreted the users input.
01/02/03  being Jan 2nd 2003, Feb 1st 2003 or maybe the 3rd Feb 2001, or maybe .. depending on the OS and app settings and current date maybe 1903 or 2103.

My consideration - in Excel - is that the pain is caused by the interpretation Excel does, because once excel has the data - you're stuck with what it calculated as the - 1900 or 1904 based - number associated with that date.

JimB 

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 7:44 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

I acknowledge that we all have different ways of expressing dates (verbally and written). I have never had the talent for understanding or speaking a foreign language. I can't even understand other Americans with accents! :) 

I have no problem entering, modifying, manipulating, grouping, or sorting dates entered in the US format Jan 1, 2016. I would imagine that cultures entering them differently can say the same thing. The software handles our needs. 

It's only when we have to work with dates not in our familiar zone that we run into trouble. If I were working in an organization that had to face this problem, I would hope to find a solution that was efficient and accurate, but I'm not sure I would spend much effort into trying to force those submitting dates in a "foreign" format into my culturally biased format unless of course, I had the power and money behind me to make it happen. :) I hope that makes sense and doesn't offend anyone. It's just an opinion and how, I think, I would deal with this if I had to. It's probably how most of you handle it -- you make it work. 

I often get questions from readers with similar dirty data issues and they want solutions for fixing the data. My first question is always the same -- can you take it back to the source and get them to submit it the way you need it in the first place? But you know, all too often, that isn't possible. 

So, I don't understand why this is always such a heated discussion or why any camp claims superiority. Dates are no different than any other data we have to accept and fix before we can use it. 

I say that all gently and with no judgement, just ... the way I see it. 

Susan H. 

Hi Susan and David

And so is the logic. You would say ?224 Grand Aveny? while we always will say ?Big Street 224?.

/gustav



-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Jan 18 15:17:32 2016
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 21:17:32 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
 validation
Message-ID: <VI1PR06MB15845F7D0A5F59E220809751CAC00@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Susan

I guess we just all have our habits and wish to stick with them, and most of the time it goes well.

However, sometimes you just can?t afford or risk to fail or don?t have the time to sort matters out. That?s why you have got ?military time?, and that?s why NASA wish that a single subcontractors had followed the SI system and not the ?imperial? when the Mars Climate Orbiter failed in 1999.

/gustav

Fra: Susan Harkins<mailto:ssharkins at gmail.com>
Sendt: 18. januar 2016 20:44
Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'<mailto:accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full validation

I acknowledge that we all have different ways of expressing dates (verbally and written). I have never had the talent for understanding or speaking a foreign language. I can't even understand other Americans with accents! :)

I have no problem entering, modifying, manipulating, grouping, or sorting dates entered in the US format Jan 1, 2016. I would imagine that cultures entering them differently can say the same thing. The software handles our needs.

It's only when we have to work with dates not in our familiar zone that we run into trouble. If I were working in an organization that had to face this problem, I would hope to find a solution that was efficient and accurate, but I'm not sure I would spend much effort into trying to force those submitting dates in a "foreign" format into my culturally biased format unless of course, I had the power and money behind me to make it happen. :) I hope that makes sense and doesn't offend anyone. It's just an opinion and how, I think, I would deal with this if I had to. It's probably how most of you handle it -- you make it work.

I often get questions from readers with similar dirty data issues and they want solutions for fixing the data. My first question is always the same -- can you take it back to the source and get them to submit it the way you need it in the first place? But you know, all too often, that isn't possible.

So, I don't understand why this is always such a heated discussion or why any camp claims superiority. Dates are no different than any other data we have to accept and fix before we can use it.

I say that all gently and with no judgement, just ... the way I see it.

Susan H.

Hi Susan and David

And so is the logic. You would say ?224 Grand Aveny? while we always will say ?Big Street 224?.

/gustav


From charlotte.foust at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 15:18:20 2016
From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 13:18:20 -0800
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
	validation
In-Reply-To: <000c01d15228$899025f0$9cb071d0$@gmail.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584A2086A3CF86D78DAFC0ECAC00@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<000c01d15228$899025f0$9cb071d0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH+Met-XGKSyuxi3jybVYNGO6whnQVrs_GvyxAFzoXm4GE-KmA@mail.gmail.com>

You have to check the system settings for and branch your date handling
code using specific date string formats to convert them to what SQL
demands.  I worked with this when I worked for a software provider that had
international clients.  In general we used medium dates (dd-mmm-yyyy) for
display and handled the date manipulation into the required SQL format
behind the scenes.  The user input dates in their regional format, which
was displayed as a medium date that everybody can understand.  Casting them
as medium dates means Date() functions can handle them appropriately, since
the date was required to be uploaded in SQL accepted format.  We handled
odd delimiters too, like commas to separate the parts of the date.

Charlotte Foust
(916) 206-4336

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Susan Harkins <ssharkins at gmail.com> wrote:

> I acknowledge that we all have different ways of expressing dates
> (verbally and written). I have never had the talent for understanding or
> speaking a foreign language. I can't even understand other Americans with
> accents! :)
>
> I have no problem entering, modifying, manipulating, grouping, or sorting
> dates entered in the US format Jan 1, 2016. I would imagine that cultures
> entering them differently can say the same thing. The software handles our
> needs.
>
> It's only when we have to work with dates not in our familiar zone that we
> run into trouble. If I were working in an organization that had to face
> this problem, I would hope to find a solution that was efficient and
> accurate, but I'm not sure I would spend much effort into trying to force
> those submitting dates in a "foreign" format into my culturally biased
> format unless of course, I had the power and money behind me to make it
> happen. :) I hope that makes sense and doesn't offend anyone. It's just an
> opinion and how, I think, I would deal with this if I had to. It's probably
> how most of you handle it -- you make it work.
>
> I often get questions from readers with similar dirty data issues and they
> want solutions for fixing the data. My first question is always the same --
> can you take it back to the source and get them to submit it the way you
> need it in the first place? But you know, all too often, that isn't
> possible.
>
> So, I don't understand why this is always such a heated discussion or why
> any camp claims superiority. Dates are no different than any other data we
> have to accept and fix before we can use it.
>
> I say that all gently and with no judgement, just ... the way I see it.
>
> Susan H.
>
> Hi Susan and David
>
> And so is the logic. You would say ?224 Grand Aveny? while we always will
> say ?Big Street 224?.
>
> /gustav
>
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From ssharkins at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 16:23:21 2016
From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 17:23:21 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] Entering an ISO date with input mask and full
	validation
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB15845F7D0A5F59E220809751CAC00@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB15845F7D0A5F59E220809751CAC00@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <005401d1523e$d78ee050$86aca0f0$@gmail.com>

Epic design failure. You'd think that had all been expressed in the specs. :) 

Susan H. 

However, sometimes you just can?t afford or risk to fail or don?t have the time to sort matters out. That?s why you have got ?military time?, and that?s why NASA wish that a single subcontractors had followed the SI system and not the ?imperial? when the Mars Climate Orbiter failed in 1999.

/gustav




From gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Jan 22 08:28:01 2016
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 14:28:01 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Access and source control
Message-ID: <VI1PR06MB1584F32809E422E951060730CAC40@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi all

I noticed this link:

https://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/b5b5053e-af34-4fa3-9098-aaa3f3f007cd

which claims that TFS can be used for version control of Access. It is for A2007, but A2010 should work as well, and - if so - I guess A2013 and A2016 as well.

Anyone having experience with this? I only use the TFS on-line service of Microsoft, not an in-house server.

/gustav



From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 09:05:20 2016
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 10:05:20 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] Access and source control
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB1584F32809E422E951060730CAC40@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584F32809E422E951060730CAC40@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1jd5NcFFr5wym330cq0LwDxtRUqLN+TniBFSNkKMp1Q8g@mail.gmail.com>

I'd be interested, as well as skeptical. The only way I can see it working
with Access is if it exports all the code required to create the objects
from scratch; how else could it achieve the fine grain necessary for proper
version control? Until reading this, I have always thought of Access's
all-in-one storage as simultaneously a great feature and a great liability.
I'd be especially interested in hearing from anyone who has used this
technology. Specifically, create an initial version of some Access project,
store it in the repository, then make a few changes to a few forms, queries
and reports and store that as a new version; finally, roll back only those
changes to the original version.

On re-reading the page, it looks as though it won't work for me, since it
appears to require a 32-bit OS, and both my machines are running 64-bit.

Arthur

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I noticed this link:
>
>
> https://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/b5b5053e-af34-4fa3-9098-aaa3f3f007cd
>
> which claims that TFS can be used for version control of Access. It is for
> A2007, but A2010 should work as well, and - if so - I guess A2013 and A2016
> as well.
>
> Anyone having experience with this? I only use the TFS on-line service of
> Microsoft, not an in-house server.
>
> /gustav
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



-- 
Arthur

From gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Jan 22 09:12:36 2016
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 15:12:36 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Access and source control
Message-ID: <VI1PR06MB1584C7C93882CF3C363BF464CAC40@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Arthur

Neither can I. And even if you could, it would be faster and safer to restore the complete file from a zipped copy. That's what I do - zip a backup whenever I have done - or plan to start - some major changes. The zip gets the current timestamp as part of the filename. Takes very little time.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Arthur Fuller
Sendt: 22. januar 2016 16:05
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and source control

I'd be interested, as well as skeptical. The only way I can see it working with Access is if it exports all the code required to create the objects from scratch; how else could it achieve the fine grain necessary for proper version control? Until reading this, I have always thought of Access's all-in-one storage as simultaneously a great feature and a great liability.
I'd be especially interested in hearing from anyone who has used this technology. Specifically, create an initial version of some Access project, store it in the repository, then make a few changes to a few forms, queries and reports and store that as a new version; finally, roll back only those changes to the original version.

On re-reading the page, it looks as though it won't work for me, since it appears to require a 32-bit OS, and both my machines are running 64-bit.

Arthur

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I noticed this link:
>
> https://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/b5b5053e-af34-4fa3-9098-aaa3f3f007cd
>
> which claims that TFS can be used for version control of Access. It is 
> for A2007, but A2010 should work as well, and - if so - I guess A2013 
> and A2016 as well.
>
> Anyone having experience with this? I only use the TFS on-line service 
> of Microsoft, not an in-house server.
>
> /gustav 



From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 09:55:01 2016
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 10:55:01 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] Access and source control
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB1584C7C93882CF3C363BF464CAC40@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584C7C93882CF3C363BF464CAC40@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1g6nw2u5MzMbAnwP3yH3bKqDwqz15aseocY-jeC4Z5W=g@mail.gmail.com>

Gustav,

I do the same, and I guess most or all of us do. And that's fine insofar as
only one developer is working on a project at any given time. It would be
nice to be able to have a team of developers working on a project, each
member checking out a few objects and all other developers seeing that
those have been checked out. You and I could thus work simultaneously on
different aspects of Project X, then check our objects back in, and if
anything screws up, then we could roll back just that object while
preserving the changes that were successful.

That's one of the many reasons that I'm so taken with Alpha Anywhere. It
stores objects in a granular fashion; any given project might consist of
hundreds of files of various types -- HTML, CSS, JavaScript, A5W
(proprietary), text files, Xbasic modules and function libraries, and
images. The core of the project is a database similar to the database
window in older versions of Access, containing pointers to the actual files
(stored in subdirectories of the project) rather than the files themselves.
This setup makes proper version control a breeze, and ideal for project
develoment by a team.

/Arthur

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi Arthur
>
> Neither can I. And even if you could, it would be faster and safer to
> restore the complete file from a zipped copy. That's what I do - zip a
> backup whenever I have done - or plan to start - some major changes. The
> zip gets the current timestamp as part of the filename. Takes very little
> time.
>
> /gustav

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sat Jan 23 03:11:26 2016
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 12:11:26 +0300
Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Access_and_source_control?=
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1g6nw2u5MzMbAnwP3yH3bKqDwqz15aseocY-jeC4Z5W=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584C7C93882CF3C363BF464CAC40@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAEPJO1g6nw2u5MzMbAnwP3yH3bKqDwqz15aseocY-jeC4Z5W=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1453540286.149176573@f26.i.mail.ru>

 Hi Gustav, Arthur et al --

It's a bit off-topic, sorry - a few questions:

Is there still demand on new classic i.e. .mdb/.accdb (not .adp and Access/SharePoint web apps) apps development?
Are there still real classic MS Access (corporate) apps running?
Are there still power-users creating classic MS Access apps to automate their business?

Thank you.

-- Shamil

>Friday, January 22, 2016 10:55 AM -05:00 from Arthur Fuller <fuller.artful at gmail.com>:
>
>Gustav,
>
>I do the same, and I guess most or all of us do. And that's fine insofar as
>only one developer is working on a project at any given time. It would be
>nice to be able to have a team of developers working on a project, each
>member checking out a few objects and all other developers seeing that
>those have been checked out. You and I could thus work simultaneously on
>different aspects of Project X, then check our objects back in, and if
>anything screws up, then we could roll back just that object while
>preserving the changes that were successful.
>
>That's one of the many reasons that I'm so taken with Alpha Anywhere. It
>stores objects in a granular fashion; any given project might consist of
>hundreds of files of various types -- HTML, CSS, JavaScript, A5W
>(proprietary), text files, Xbasic modules and function libraries, and
>images. The core of the project is a database similar to the database
>window in older versions of Access, containing pointers to the actual files
>(stored in subdirectories of the project) rather than the files themselves.
>This setup makes proper version control a breeze, and ideal for project
>develoment by a team.
>
>/Arthur
>
>On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Gustav Brock < gustav at cactus.dk > wrote:
>
>> Hi Arthur
>>
>> Neither can I. And even if you could, it would be faster and safer to
>> restore the complete file from a zipped copy. That's what I do - zip a
>> backup whenever I have done - or plan to start - some major changes. The
>> zip gets the current timestamp as part of the filename. Takes very little
>> time.
>>
>> /gustav

From gustav at cactus.dk  Sat Jan 23 05:14:50 2016
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 11:14:50 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Access and source control
Message-ID: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Shamil


1.       We haven?t had any requests for Access applications for years. That said, we?ve never really had, because clients ask for solutions and really don?t care how they are solved. Some ask for ?web solutions? but that?s rather because of the easy access to such apps. In many cases, a Remote Desktop solution is much easier to establish ? it is browser independent and works from Macs too.


2.       Our old accounting package made in Access is still running for many clients.



3.       Through the years, I have only met two or three, and all were a mess. I would warn against it at any time.

/gustav

Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto:mcp2004 at mail.ru>
Sendt: 23. januar 2016 10:12
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto:accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and source control

Hi Gustav, Arthur et al --

It's a bit off-topic, sorry - a few questions:

Is there still demand on new classic i.e. .mdb/.accdb (not .adp and Access/SharePoint web apps) apps development?
Are there still real classic MS Access (corporate) apps running?
Are there still power-users creating classic MS Access apps to automate their business?

Thank you.

-- Shamil

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sat Jan 23 07:21:47 2016
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 16:21:47 +0300
Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?MS_Access_Web_Apps_Javascript=28=3F=29_Add-In?=
 =?utf-8?q?s_-_Was=3ARe=5B2=5D=3A__Access_and_source_control?=
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1453555307.786765129@f431.i.mail.ru>

 Hi Gustav --

Thank your your reply. Yes, I also haven't had any new MS Access apps developed here for 10+ years.

>>>?Some ask for ?web solutions?
It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins by so making them real candidates for modern "web solutions" - here is a set of the links:

Create add-ins for Access web apps
From <https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/dn605890.aspx>
Office 365: Bind and manipulate data in a SharePoint Access app
From <https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/officeapps/Office-365-Bind-and-4876274e>
Create JavaScript web apps using CORS to access Office 365 APIs
From <https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/office365/howto/create-web-apps-using-cors-to-access-files-in-office-365>
See also:
Set up an add-in catalog on SharePoint
From <https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp123530.aspx> But I must note that I haven't yet made any Add-Ins for MS Access Web Apps - I have tried by I have failed to follow MSDN work-through as my VS2015 setup seems to be missing Office Add-Ins templates, and I currently do not know where from to get them installed if that possible at all for VS 2015 Professional edition.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

>Saturday, January 23, 2016 11:14 AM UTC from Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>
>Hi Shamil
>
>
>1.       We haven?t had any requests for Access applications for years. That said, we?ve never really had, because clients ask for solutions and really don?t care how they are solved. Some ask for ?web solutions? but that?s rather because of the easy access to such apps. In many cases, a Remote Desktop solution is much easier to establish ? it is browser independent and works from Macs too.
>
>
>2.       Our old accounting package made in Access is still running for many clients.
>
>
>
>3.       Through the years, I have only met two or three, and all were a mess. I would warn against it at any time.
>
>/gustav
>
>Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto: mcp2004 at mail.ru >
>Sendt: 23. januar 2016 10:12
>Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >
>Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and source control
>
>Hi Gustav, Arthur et al --
>
>It's a bit off-topic, sorry - a few questions:
>
>Is there still demand on new classic i.e. .mdb/.accdb (not .adp and Access/SharePoint web apps) apps development?
>Are there still real classic MS Access (corporate) apps running?
>Are there still power-users creating classic MS Access apps to automate their business?
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>-- 
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 08:52:52 2016
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 09:52:52 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] Access and source control
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1jLns9HyXhCpwnDytEHguWwSfFufszU6T3TPsGD3C=0tg@mail.gmail.com>

Shamil,

My experience pretty much reflects Gustav's. About the only time I get a
specific request for Access is from a client whose current solution is an
Access app that I wrote, and they want enhancements. There are lots of jobs
and gigs out there for .NET developers, but I've not gone beyond the basics
with that, so can't compete there.

I still use Access for little toy databases and test programs, but have
moved to Alpha Anywhere for serious work, primarily because of its
"anywhere" capabilities -- you can run the same app on a phone, a tablet
and a web browser. Another really cool thing about Alpha is its ability to
run "disconnected", i.e. install some small subset of the database on the
mobile device, run the app against it, then connect to the full database
and synchronize the changes.

Also, the web/mobile stuff has custom keyboards and number pads that make
it a lot easier to input data on a tablet.

Arthur

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 6:14 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi Shamil
>
>
> 1.       We haven?t had any requests for Access applications for years.
> That said, we?ve never really had, because clients ask for solutions and
> really don?t care how they are solved. Some ask for ?web solutions? but
> that?s rather because of the easy access to such apps. In many cases, a
> Remote Desktop solution is much easier to establish ? it is browser
> independent and works from Macs too.
>
>
> 2.       Our old accounting package made in Access is still running for
> many clients.
>
>
>
> 3.       Through the years, I have only met two or three, and all were a
> mess. I would warn against it at any time.
>
> /gustav
>
> Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto:mcp2004 at mail.ru>
> Sendt: 23. januar 2016 10:12
> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto:
> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and source control
>
> Hi Gustav, Arthur et al --
>
> It's a bit off-topic, sorry - a few questions:
>
> Is there still demand on new classic i.e. .mdb/.accdb (not .adp and
> Access/SharePoint web apps) apps development?
> Are there still real classic MS Access (corporate) apps running?
> Are there still power-users creating classic MS Access apps to automate
> their business?
>
> Thank you.
>
> -- Shamil
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



-- 
Arthur

From gustav at cactus.dk  Sat Jan 23 10:18:09 2016
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 16:18:09 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
 Access and source control
Message-ID: <VI1PR06MB15841B9786471E8D092CACE4CAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Shamil

Yes, you can do ?something? with the Access Web Apps. However, I think (not sure, just my impression) it is targeted superuser types of applications.

If you look at the page for Office add-ins it doesn?t mention Access with a single Word, so I don?t know how to read that article you link to at SO. Like you, I see no mention of Access in VS2015 SP1 for Office apps, so I guess they have been left in the dark.

/gustav

Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto:mcp2004 at mail.ru>
Sendt: 23. januar 2016 14:22
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto:accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]: Access and source control

Hi Gustav --

Thank your your reply. Yes, I also haven't had any new MS Access apps developed here for 10+ years.

>>> Some ask for ?web solutions?
It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins by so making them real candidates for modern "web solutions" - here is a set of the links:

Create add-ins for Access web apps
From <https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/dn605890.aspx>
Office 365: Bind and manipulate data in a SharePoint Access app
From <https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/officeapps/Office-365-Bind-and-4876274e>
Create JavaScript web apps using CORS to access Office 365 APIs
From <https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/office365/howto/create-web-apps-using-cors-to-access-files-in-office-365>
See also:
Set up an add-in catalog on SharePoint
From <https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp123530.aspx> But I must note that I haven't yet made any Add-Ins for MS Access Web Apps - I have tried by I have failed to follow MSDN work-through as my VS2015 setup seems to be missing Office Add-Ins templates, and I currently do not know where from to get them installed if that possible at all for VS 2015 Professional edition.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

>Saturday, January 23, 2016 11:14 AM UTC from Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>
>Hi Shamil
>
>
>1.       We haven?t had any requests for Access applications for years. That said, we?ve never really had, because clients ask for solutions and really don?t care how they are solved. Some ask for ?web solutions? but that?s rather because of the easy access to such apps. In many cases, a Remote Desktop solution is much easier to establish ? it is browser independent and works from Macs too.
>
>
>2.       Our old accounting package made in Access is still running for many clients.
>
>
>
>3.       Through the years, I have only met two or three, and all were a mess. I would warn against it at any time.
>
>/gustav
>
>Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto: mcp2004 at mail.ru >
>Sendt: 23. januar 2016 10:12
>Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >
>Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and source control
>
>Hi Gustav, Arthur et al --
>
>It's a bit off-topic, sorry - a few questions:
>
>Is there still demand on new classic i.e. .mdb/.accdb (not .adp and Access/SharePoint web apps) apps development?
>Are there still real classic MS Access (corporate) apps running?
>Are there still power-users creating classic MS Access apps to automate their business?
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil


From marksimms at verizon.net  Sat Jan 23 11:40:01 2016
From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 12:40:01 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
 Access and source control
In-Reply-To: <1453555307.786765129@f431.i.mail.ru>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<1453555307.786765129@f431.i.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <015701d15605$16de2ee0$449a8ca0$@net>

My client's Portfolio Management system all built in MS Access 2010 and Excel 
2010 is still running and I still support it. The cost to develop it was about 
$50k. However, it's rich functionality including a custom FTP file transfer 
facility has effectively replaced an online service that would cost my client 
$15k per MONTH based on their AUM (Assets Under Management).

I just left another client where an Access system was built to interface with 
a barcode reader to handle incoming returned packages. I don't believe they 
are going to replace it any time soon.

Finally, because of the location, I just turned-down a 1 year contact at a 
major bank that uses Access to handle their executive equity bonus 
compensation requirements.

However, I must admit, there's not much demand out there especially at larger 
companies.
>
> Thank your your reply. Yes, I also haven't had any new MS Access apps
> developed here for 10+ years.
>



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sat Jan 23 15:04:36 2016
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 00:04:36 +0300
Subject: [AccessD]
 =?utf-8?q?MS_Access_Web_Apps_Javascript=28=3F=29_Add-In?=
 =?utf-8?q?s_-_Was=3ARe=5B2=5D=3A_Access_and_source_control?=
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB15841B9786471E8D092CACE4CAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB15841B9786471E8D092CACE4CAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1453583076.503910385@f382.i.mail.ru>

 Hi Gustav --

I have just found - here is the info on the ?"Latest Microsoft Office Developer Tools for Visual Studio 2015" ( http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2015/11/23/latest-microsoft-office-developer-tools-for-visual-studio-2015.aspx ) and this info/article has the link to setup these tools: ? http://aka.ms/GetLatestOfficeDevTools ?

Here is the info on supported add-in types and supported host application including MS Access Web apps ( https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp142185.aspx ?).

It looks like with introduction of this type of Office Add-Ins (with JavaScript API for Office / office.js) MS Access web apps can be made powerful, "smart" and user-friendly... IOW MS Access web apps with latest Office Add-Ins seems to be good candidates for "web solutions" as you mentioned them.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

>Saturday, January 23, 2016 4:18 PM UTC from Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>
>Hi Shamil
>
>Yes, you can do ?something? with the Access Web Apps. However, I think (not sure, just my impression) it is targeted superuser types of applications.
>
>If you look at the page for Office add-ins it doesn?t mention Access with a single Word, so I don?t know how to read that article you link to at SO. Like you, I see no mention of Access in VS2015 SP1 for Office apps, so I guess they have been left in the dark.
>
>/gustav
>
>Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto: mcp2004 at mail.ru >
>Sendt: 23. januar 2016 14:22
>Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >
>Emne: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]: Access and source control
>
>Hi Gustav --
>
>Thank your your reply. Yes, I also haven't had any new MS Access apps developed here for 10+ years.
>
>>>> Some ask for ?web solutions?
>It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins by so making them real candidates for modern "web solutions" - here is a set of the links:
>
>Create add-ins for Access web apps
>From < https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/dn605890.aspx >
>Office 365: Bind and manipulate data in a SharePoint Access app
>From < https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/officeapps/Office-365-Bind-and-4876274e >
>Create JavaScript web apps using CORS to access Office 365 APIs
>From < https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/office365/howto/create-web-apps-using-cors-to-access-files-in-office-365 >
>See also:
>Set up an add-in catalog on SharePoint
>From < https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp123530.aspx > But I must note that I haven't yet made any Add-Ins for MS Access Web Apps - I have tried by I have failed to follow MSDN work-through as my VS2015 setup seems to be missing Office Add-Ins templates, and I currently do not know where from to get them installed if that possible at all for VS 2015 Professional edition.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
<<< skipped >>>
>

From gustav at cactus.dk  Sat Jan 23 16:54:36 2016
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 22:54:36 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
 Access and source control
Message-ID: <VI1PR06MB1584B407503A7E7A5408067DCAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Shamil

Interesting. I?ll study the cookbook. Perhaps this can be useful. Thanks!

/gustav

Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto:mcp2004 at mail.ru>
Sendt: 23. januar 2016 22:05
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto:accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]: Access and source control

Hi Gustav --

I have just found - here is the info on the  "Latest Microsoft Office Developer Tools for Visual Studio 2015" ( http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2015/11/23/latest-microsoft-office-developer-tools-for-visual-studio-2015.aspx ) and this info/article has the link to setup these tools:   http://aka.ms/GetLatestOfficeDevTools

Here is the info on supported add-in types and supported host application including MS Access Web apps ( https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp142185.aspx  ).

It looks like with introduction of this type of Office Add-Ins (with JavaScript API for Office / office.js) MS Access web apps can be made powerful, "smart" and user-friendly... IOW MS Access web apps with latest Office Add-Ins seems to be good candidates for "web solutions" as you mentioned them.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

>Saturday, January 23, 2016 4:18 PM UTC from Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>
>Hi Shamil
>
>Yes, you can do ?something? with the Access Web Apps. However, I think (not sure, just my impression) it is targeted superuser types of applications.
>
>If you look at the page for Office add-ins it doesn?t mention Access with a single Word, so I don?t know how to read that article you link to at SO. Like you, I see no mention of Access in VS2015 SP1 for Office apps, so I guess they have been left in the dark.
>
>/gustav
>
>Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto: mcp2004 at mail.ru >
>Sendt: 23. januar 2016 14:22
>Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >
>Emne: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]: Access and source control
>
>Hi Gustav --
>
>Thank your your reply. Yes, I also haven't had any new MS Access apps developed here for 10+ years.
>
>>>> Some ask for ?web solutions?
>It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins by so making them real candidates for modern "web solutions" - here is a set of the links:
>
>Create add-ins for Access web apps
>From < https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/dn605890.aspx >
>Office 365: Bind and manipulate data in a SharePoint Access app
>From < https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/officeapps/Office-365-Bind-and-4876274e >
>Create JavaScript web apps using CORS to access Office 365 APIs
>From < https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/office365/howto/create-web-apps-using-cors-to-access-files-in-office-365 >
>See also:
>Set up an add-in catalog on SharePoint
>From < https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp123530.aspx > But I must note that I haven't yet made any Add-Ins for MS Access Web Apps - I have tried by I have failed to follow MSDN work-through as my VS2015 setup seems to be missing Office Add-Ins templates, and I currently do not know where from to get them installed if that possible at all for VS 2015 Professional edition.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Jan 24 04:24:10 2016
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 13:24:10 +0300
Subject: [AccessD]
 =?utf-8?q?MS_Access_Web_Apps_Javascript=28=3F=29_Add-In?=
 =?utf-8?q?s_-_Was=3ARe=5B2=5D=3A_Access_and_source_control?=
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB1584B407503A7E7A5408067DCAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584B407503A7E7A5408067DCAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1453631050.888914530@f383.i.mail.ru>

 Hi Gustav --

Yes, it could be useful. Maybe in the middle of this February I'll find some time to study it too.

Here is an additional link which, in my opinion, could be useful:?http://dev.office.com/fabric

Thank you.

-- Shamil

>Saturday, January 23, 2016 10:54 PM UTC from Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>
>Hi Shamil
>
>Interesting. I?ll study the cookbook. Perhaps this can be useful. Thanks!
>
>/gustav
>
>Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto: mcp2004 at mail.ru >
>Sendt: 23. januar 2016 22:05
>Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >
>Emne: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]: Access and source control
>
>Hi Gustav --
>
>I have just found - here is the info on the  "Latest Microsoft Office Developer Tools for Visual Studio 2015" (  http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2015/11/23/latest-microsoft-office-developer-tools-for-visual-studio-2015.aspx ) and this info/article has the link to setup these tools:  http://aka.ms/GetLatestOfficeDevTools
>
>Here is the info on supported add-in types and supported host application including MS Access Web apps (  https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp142185.aspx ).
>
>It looks like with introduction of this type of Office Add-Ins (with JavaScript API for Office / office.js) MS Access web apps can be made powerful, "smart" and user-friendly... IOW MS Access web apps with latest Office Add-Ins seems to be good candidates for "web solutions" as you mentioned them.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>
>>Saturday, January 23, 2016 4:18 PM UTC from Gustav Brock < gustav at cactus.dk >:
>>
>>Hi Shamil
>>
>>Yes, you can do ?something? with the Access Web Apps. However, I think (not sure, just my impression) it is targeted superuser types of applications.
>>
>>If you look at the page for Office add-ins it doesn?t mention Access with a single Word, so I don?t know how to read that article you link to at SO. Like you, I see no mention of Access in VS2015 SP1 for Office apps, so I guess they have been left in the dark.
>>
>>/gustav
>>
>>Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto:  mcp2004 at mail.ru >
>>Sendt: 23. januar 2016 14:22
>>Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto:  accessd at databaseadvisors.com >
>>Emne: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]: Access and source control
>>
>>Hi Gustav --
>>
>>Thank your your reply. Yes, I also haven't had any new MS Access apps developed here for 10+ years.
>>
>>>>> Some ask for ?web solutions?
>>It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins by so making them real candidates for modern "web solutions" - here is a set of the links:
>>
>>Create add-ins for Access web apps
>>From <  https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/dn605890.aspx >
>>Office 365: Bind and manipulate data in a SharePoint Access app
>>From <  https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/officeapps/Office-365-Bind-and-4876274e >
>>Create JavaScript web apps using CORS to access Office 365 APIs
>>From <  https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/office365/howto/create-web-apps-using-cors-to-access-files-in-office-365 >
>>See also:
>>Set up an add-in catalog on SharePoint
>>From <  https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp123530.aspx > But I must note that I haven't yet made any Add-Ins for MS Access Web Apps - I have tried by I have failed to follow MSDN work-through as my VS2015 setup seems to be missing Office Add-Ins templates, and I currently do not know where from to get them installed if that possible at all for VS 2015 Professional edition.
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>-- Shamil
>
>-- 
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Jan 24 04:35:05 2016
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 13:35:05 +0300
Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Access_and_source_control?=
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1jLns9HyXhCpwnDytEHguWwSfFufszU6T3TPsGD3C=0tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAEPJO1jLns9HyXhCpwnDytEHguWwSfFufszU6T3TPsGD3C=0tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1453631705.377565551@f146.i.mail.ru>

 Arthur --

Thank you for your sharing your experience about MS Access applications development during recent years.
Perhaps, recently released by Microsoft Office Add-Ins ( http://tinyurl.com/qb9pbkj ) based on/using JavaScript API for Office ( http://tinyurl.com/zhg5o9s ) ?and Office UI Fabric ( http://dev.office.com/fabric ?) will help to revive real MS Access web apps development?

-- Shamil

>Saturday, January 23, 2016 9:52 AM -05:00 from Arthur Fuller <fuller.artful at gmail.com>:
>
>Shamil,
>
>My experience pretty much reflects Gustav's. About the only time I get a
>specific request for Access is from a client whose current solution is an
>Access app that I wrote, and they want enhancements. There are lots of jobs
>and gigs out there for .NET developers, but I've not gone beyond the basics
>with that, so can't compete there.
>
>I still use Access for little toy databases and test programs, but have
>moved to Alpha Anywhere for serious work, primarily because of its
>"anywhere" capabilities -- you can run the same app on a phone, a tablet
>and a web browser. Another really cool thing about Alpha is its ability to
>run "disconnected", i.e. install some small subset of the database on the
>mobile device, run the app against it, then connect to the full database
>and synchronize the changes.
>
>Also, the web/mobile stuff has custom keyboards and number pads that make
>it a lot easier to input data on a tablet.
>
>Arthur
>
>On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 6:14 AM, Gustav Brock < gustav at cactus.dk > wrote:
>
>> Hi Shamil
>>
>>
>> 1.       We haven?t had any requests for Access applications for years.
>> That said, we?ve never really had, because clients ask for solutions and
>> really don?t care how they are solved. Some ask for ?web solutions? but
>> that?s rather because of the easy access to such apps. In many cases, a
>> Remote Desktop solution is much easier to establish ? it is browser
>> independent and works from Macs too.
>>
>>
>> 2.       Our old accounting package made in Access is still running for
>> many clients.
>>
>>
>>
>> 3.       Through the years, I have only met two or three, and all were a
>> mess. I would warn against it at any time.
>>
>> /gustav
>> <<< skipped >>>
>

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Jan 24 04:42:34 2016
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 13:42:34 +0300
Subject: [AccessD]
 =?utf-8?q?MS_Access_Web_Apps_Javascript=28=3F=29_Add-In?=
 =?utf-8?q?s_-_Was=3ARe=5B2=5D=3A_Access_and_source_control?=
In-Reply-To: <015701d15605$16de2ee0$449a8ca0$@net>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<1453555307.786765129@f431.i.mail.ru>
	<015701d15605$16de2ee0$449a8ca0$@net>
Message-ID: <1453632154.994793093@f146.i.mail.ru>

 Thank you for your note, Mark,

You seems to be so far the luckiest MS Access developer here :)

As I have already mentioned in the AccessD parallel discussion thread MS Access Web Apps could get back on mainstream for real life web solutions with the recently released/enhanced?Microsoft Office Add-Ins , JavaScript API for Office, Office UI Fabric and other related technologies.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

>Saturday, January 23, 2016 12:40 PM -05:00 from "Mark Simms" <marksimms at verizon.net>:
>
>My client's Portfolio Management system all built in MS Access 2010 and Excel 
>2010 is still running and I still support it. The cost to develop it was about 
>$50k. However, it's rich functionality including a custom FTP file transfer 
>facility has effectively replaced an online service that would cost my client 
>$15k per MONTH based on their AUM (Assets Under Management).
>
>I just left another client where an Access system was built to interface with 
>a barcode reader to handle incoming returned packages. I don't believe they 
>are going to replace it any time soon.
>
>Finally, because of the location, I just turned-down a 1 year contact at a 
>major bank that uses Access to handle their executive equity bonus 
>compensation requirements.
>
>However, I must admit, there's not much demand out there especially at larger 
>companies.
>>
>> Thank your your reply. Yes, I also haven't had any new MS Access apps
>> developed here for 10+ years.
>>
>
>
>-- 
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Jan 24 04:59:44 2016
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 13:59:44 +0300
Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Use_Office_UI_Fabric_in_Office_Add-ins?=
Message-ID: <1453633184.348486867@f192.i.mail.ru>

 Hi All --

I have recently mentioned the subject Office Add-Ins and Office UI Fabric on of AccessD threads.

Should the following additional information be posted here in dba-Office or there in AccessD?

"Use Office UI Fabric in Office Add-ins"
? ? From <https://msdn.microsoft.com/EN-US/library/office/6f46dd69-2ba3-4b0f-9735-7d7394ca2731.aspx>?

Anyway it looks tempting to try to investigate and to develop some real things?with the subject technologies but free time is limited here - if anybody have it (free time) plenty and wanted to lead an (open source) MS Access Web App, Office?Add-Ins, Office UI Fabric... investigation project I'd join and I'd participate.

Office UI Fabric sources are located here:  https://github.com/OfficeDev/Office-UI-Fabric ? => "The front-end framework for building experiences for Office and Office 365. Fabric is a responsive, mobile-first collection of styles and tools designed to make it quick and simple for you to create web experiences using the Office Design Language."

Thank you.

-- 
???????????? ??????
Use Office UI Fabric in Office Add-ins
?
From
< https://msdn.microsoft.com/EN-US/library/office/6f46dd69-2ba3-4b0f-9735-7d7394ca2731.aspx >?

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Jan 24 05:07:13 2016
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:07:13 +0300
Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Use_Office_UI_Fabric_in_Office_Add-ins?=
In-Reply-To: <1453633184.348486867@f192.i.mail.ru>
References: <1453633184.348486867@f192.i.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <1453633633.94424835@f177.i.mail.ru>


Hi All --
Sorry, I wanted this topic to go to dba-Office but it arrived here. It's its fate. Let's leave it here ;)
Thank you.
-- Shamil
>Sunday, January 24, 2016 1:59 PM +03:00 from Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru>:
>
>Hi All --
>
>I have recently mentioned the subject Office Add-Ins and Office UI Fabric on of AccessD threads.
>
>Should the following additional information be posted here in dba-Office or there in AccessD?
>
>"Use Office UI Fabric in Office Add-ins"
>? ? From < https://msdn.microsoft.com/EN-US/library/office/6f46dd69-2ba3-4b0f-9735-7d7394ca2731.aspx >?
>
>Anyway it looks tempting to try to investigate and to develop some real things?with the subject technologies but free time is limited here - if anybody have it (free time) plenty and wanted to lead an (open source) MS Access Web App, Office?Add-Ins, Office UI Fabric... investigation project I'd join and I'd participate.
>
>Office UI Fabric sources are located here:  https://github.com/OfficeDev/Office-UI-Fabric ? => "The front-end framework for building experiences for Office and Office 365. Fabric is a responsive, mobile-first collection of styles and tools designed to make it quick and simple for you to create web experiences using the Office Design Language."
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- 
>???????????? ??????
>Use Office UI Fabric in Office Add-ins
>?
>From
><  https://msdn.microsoft.com/EN-US/library/office/6f46dd69-2ba3-4b0f-9735-7d7394ca2731.aspx >?
>-- 
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From gustav at cactus.dk  Sun Jan 24 05:28:12 2016
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:28:12 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
 Access and source control
Message-ID: <VI1PR06MB1584E7792C25AE94893FDBF1CAC60@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Shamil

I think ?useful? is not the word as it seems to get half the job done for you.

When I browse the site and study the examples ? this is sooo powerful. And stylish.
It would take months to create just parts of this vast collection.

I hope I can find some time to work with it.

/gustav


Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto:mcp2004 at mail.ru>
Sendt: 24. januar 2016 11:26
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto:accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]: Access and source control

Hi Gustav --

Yes, it could be useful. Maybe in the middle of this February I'll find some time to study it too.

Here is an additional link which, in my opinion, could be useful: http://dev.office.com/fabric

Thank you.

-- Shamil

>Saturday, January 23, 2016 10:54 PM UTC from Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>
>Hi Shamil
>
>Interesting. I?ll study the cookbook. Perhaps this can be useful. Thanks!
>
>/gustav
>
>Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto: mcp2004 at mail.ru >
>Sendt: 23. januar 2016 22:05
>Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >
>Emne: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]: Access and source control
>
>Hi Gustav --
>
>I have just found - here is the info on the  "Latest Microsoft Office Developer Tools for Visual Studio 2015" (  http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2015/11/23/latest-microsoft-office-developer-tools-for-visual-studio-2015.aspx ) and this info/article has the link to setup these tools:  http://aka.ms/GetLatestOfficeDevTools
>
>Here is the info on supported add-in types and supported host application including MS Access Web apps (  https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp142185.aspx ).
>
>It looks like with introduction of this type of Office Add-Ins (with JavaScript API for Office / office.js) MS Access web apps can be made powerful, "smart" and user-friendly... IOW MS Access web apps with latest Office Add-Ins seems to be good candidates for "web solutions" as you mentioned them.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>
>>Saturday, January 23, 2016 4:18 PM UTC from Gustav Brock < gustav at cactus.dk >:
>>
>>Hi Shamil
>>
>>Yes, you can do ?something? with the Access Web Apps. However, I think (not sure, just my impression) it is targeted superuser types of applications.
>>
>>If you look at the page for Office add-ins it doesn?t mention Access with a single Word, so I don?t know how to read that article you link to at SO. Like you, I see no mention of Access in VS2015 SP1 for Office apps, so I guess they have been left in the dark.
>>
>>/gustav
>>
>>Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto:  mcp2004 at mail.ru >
>>Sendt: 23. januar 2016 14:22
>>Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto:  accessd at databaseadvisors.com >
>>Emne: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]: Access and source control
>>
>>Hi Gustav --
>>
>>Thank your your reply. Yes, I also haven't had any new MS Access apps developed here for 10+ years.
>>
>>>>> Some ask for ?web solutions?
>>It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins by so making them real candidates for modern "web solutions" - here is a set of the links:
>>
>>Create add-ins for Access web apps
>>From <  https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/dn605890.aspx >
>>Office 365: Bind and manipulate data in a SharePoint Access app
>>From <  https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/officeapps/Office-365-Bind-and-4876274e >
>>Create JavaScript web apps using CORS to access Office 365 APIs
>>From <  https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/office365/howto/create-web-apps-using-cors-to-access-files-in-office-365 >
>>See also:
>>Set up an add-in catalog on SharePoint
>>From <  https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp123530.aspx > But I must note that I haven't yet made any Add-Ins for MS Access Web Apps - I have tried by I have failed to follow MSDN work-through as my VS2015 setup seems to be missing Office Add-Ins templates, and I currently do not know where from to get them installed if that possible at all for VS 2015 Professional edition.
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>-- Shamil
>
>--
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com

--
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 06:05:09 2016
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 07:05:09 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] Access and source control
In-Reply-To: <1453631705.377565551@f146.i.mail.ru>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAEPJO1jLns9HyXhCpwnDytEHguWwSfFufszU6T3TPsGD3C=0tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1453631705.377565551@f146.i.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1jnx7NfyigUisKcq93s84eQa+KVNbPuVJbF3dnP8wyvXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Shamil,

I looked at the links you sent and I'm I don't see anything there to
persuade me to follow that path. The Alpha people seem to have MS beat in
every possible way.

As far as the cloud goes, Alpha works well with AWS, and has even worked
out a deal with Amazon to make such a deployment as inexpensive as
possible. In addition, a number of ISPs offer packages that include Alpha's
Application Server, so it's possible to host your app from there rather
than set up your own server.

But I digress. This after all *is* an Access group.

Arthur

On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 5:35 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru>
wrote:

>  Arthur --
>
> Thank you for your sharing your experience about MS Access applications
> development during recent years.
> Perhaps, recently released by Microsoft Office Add-Ins (
> http://tinyurl.com/qb9pbkj ) based on/using JavaScript API for Office (
> http://tinyurl.com/zhg5o9s )  and Office UI Fabric (
> http://dev.office.com/fabric  ) will help to revive real MS Access web
> apps development?
>
> -- Shamil

From charlotte.foust at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 09:52:04 2016
From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 07:52:04 -0800
Subject: [AccessD] Access and source control
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAH+Met-xrCxjus5BZV3VQ_0Ud5Db==TeixFT=-2=EnF5+VB-YQ@mail.gmail.com>

I, on the other hand, have a contract with the State of California to do
nothing but build Access apps for various units within the Energy
Commission.  These are classic apps that help a group manage its workflow
and provide a way for them to quickly find a particular task for review, as
well as giving them on the fly reports and the ability to  dump information
to Excel in a tidy format.  In addition, I present workshops on building
Access applications and mentor individuals who need help with projects
they've "developed".

The homegrown stuff is usually pretty bad, but they love what I build.  I
also tell them when Access is not the appropriate solution.

Charlotte Foust
(916) 206-4336

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 3:14 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi Shamil
>
>
> 1.       We haven?t had any requests for Access applications for years.
> That said, we?ve never really had, because clients ask for solutions and
> really don?t care how they are solved. Some ask for ?web solutions? but
> that?s rather because of the easy access to such apps. In many cases, a
> Remote Desktop solution is much easier to establish ? it is browser
> independent and works from Macs too.
>
>
> 2.       Our old accounting package made in Access is still running for
> many clients.
>
>
>
> 3.       Through the years, I have only met two or three, and all were a
> mess. I would warn against it at any time.
>
> /gustav
>
> Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto:mcp2004 at mail.ru>
> Sendt: 23. januar 2016 10:12
> Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto:
> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and source control
>
> Hi Gustav, Arthur et al --
>
> It's a bit off-topic, sorry - a few questions:
>
> Is there still demand on new classic i.e. .mdb/.accdb (not .adp and
> Access/SharePoint web apps) apps development?
> Are there still real classic MS Access (corporate) apps running?
> Are there still power-users creating classic MS Access apps to automate
> their business?
>
> Thank you.
>
> -- Shamil
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From jimdettman at verizon.net  Sun Jan 24 11:30:05 2016
From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 12:30:05 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
 Access and source control
In-Reply-To: <1453555307.786765129@f431.i.mail.ru>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<1453555307.786765129@f431.i.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <3642DA7D4BF8406A8C090AC9BEBE1DE4@XPS>

Shamil,

<<It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be
extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins by so
making them real candidates for modern "web solutions">>

 While to a certain extent that's true, I think if you dig into the Access
Web Apps, you'll find yourself so restricted you won't find them worth the
effort despite the ability to extend them.

 There are only a few forms and a handful of controls that you can use, and
almost no events to speak of.  They are great for throwing together a basic
app that does CRUD operations, but that's about it.  Try to add any real
logic and you'll find it quite difficult.

 They are focused and intended for use by a power user.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Salakhetdinov Shamil
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 08:22 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
Access and source control

 Hi Gustav --

Thank your your reply. Yes, I also haven't had any new MS Access apps
developed here for 10+ years.

>>>?Some ask for ?web solutions?
It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be
extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins by so
making them real candidates for modern "web solutions" - here is a set of
the links:

Create add-ins for Access web apps
>From <https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/dn605890.aspx>
Office 365: Bind and manipulate data in a SharePoint Access app
From
<https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/officeapps/Office-365-Bind-and-4876274e>
Create JavaScript web apps using CORS to access Office 365 APIs
From
<https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/office365/howto/create-web-apps-usi
ng-cors-to-access-files-in-office-365>
See also:
Set up an add-in catalog on SharePoint
>From <https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp123530.aspx> But I
must note that I haven't yet made any Add-Ins for MS Access Web Apps - I
have tried by I have failed to follow MSDN work-through as my VS2015 setup
seems to be missing Office Add-Ins templates, and I currently do not know
where from to get them installed if that possible at all for VS 2015
Professional edition.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

>Saturday, January 23, 2016 11:14 AM UTC from Gustav Brock
<gustav at cactus.dk>:
>
>Hi Shamil
>
>
>1.       We haven?t had any requests for Access applications for years.
That said, we?ve never really had, because clients ask for solutions and
really don?t care how they are solved. Some ask for ?web solutions? but
that?s rather because of the easy access to such apps. In many cases, a
Remote Desktop solution is much easier to establish ? it is browser
independent and works from Macs too.
>
>
>2.       Our old accounting package made in Access is still running for
many clients.
>
>
>
>3.       Through the years, I have only met two or three, and all were a
mess. I would warn against it at any time.
>
>/gustav
>
>Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto: mcp2004 at mail.ru >
>Sendt: 23. januar 2016 10:12
>Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto:
accessd at databaseadvisors.com >
>Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and source control
>
>Hi Gustav, Arthur et al --
>
>It's a bit off-topic, sorry - a few questions:
>
>Is there still demand on new classic i.e. .mdb/.accdb (not .adp and
Access/SharePoint web apps) apps development?
>Are there still real classic MS Access (corporate) apps running?
>Are there still power-users creating classic MS Access apps to automate
their business?
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>-- 
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From jwcolby at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 12:31:20 2016
From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John Colby)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 13:31:20 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] Ford Model T - 100 Years Later - SafeShare.TV
Message-ID: <56A51878.2060108@Gmail.com>

Can we make this somehow database relevant?  Fascinating none the less.

http://safeshare.tv/w/ShbgvwazCZ

-- 
John W. Colby


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Jan 24 13:17:54 2016
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 22:17:54 +0300
Subject: [AccessD]
 =?utf-8?q?MS_Access_Web_Apps_Javascript=28=3F=29_Add-In?=
 =?utf-8?q?s_-_Was=3ARe=5B2=5D=3A_Access_and_source_control?=
In-Reply-To: <3642DA7D4BF8406A8C090AC9BEBE1DE4@XPS>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<1453555307.786765129@f431.i.mail.ru>
	<3642DA7D4BF8406A8C090AC9BEBE1DE4@XPS>
Message-ID: <1453663074.189747798@f161.i.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

<<<
They are great for throwing together a basic?app that does CRUD operations
>>>
Yes, that was my impression too.
But recently released Office Add-Ins together with Office UI Fabric and other related technologies seems to be the "game changers" as they are HTML/CSS/JavaScript -based/-driven and only "the skies are limits" in this case...

Thank you

-- Shamil

>Sunday, January 24, 2016 12:30 PM -05:00 from "Jim Dettman" <jimdettman at verizon.net>:
>
>Shamil,
>
><<It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be
>extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins by so
>making them real candidates for modern "web solutions">>
>
>?While to a certain extent that's true, I think if you dig into the Access
>Web Apps, you'll find yourself so restricted you won't find them worth the
>effort despite the ability to extend them.
>
>?There are only a few forms and a handful of controls that you can use, and
>almost no events to speak of.  They are great for throwing together a basic
>app that does CRUD operations, but that's about it.  Try to add any real
>logic and you'll find it quite difficult.
>
>?They are focused and intended for use by a power user.
>
>Jim.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
>Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 08:22 AM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
>Access and source control
>
>?Hi Gustav --
>
>Thank your your reply. Yes, I also haven't had any new MS Access apps
>developed here for 10+ years.
>
>>>>?Some ask for ?web solutions?
>It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be
>extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins by so
>making them real candidates for modern "web solutions" - here is a set of
>the links:
>
>Create add-ins for Access web apps
>From < https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/dn605890.aspx >
>Office 365: Bind and manipulate data in a SharePoint Access app
>From
>< https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/officeapps/Office-365-Bind-and-4876274e >
>Create JavaScript web apps using CORS to access Office 365 APIs
>From
>< https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/office365/howto/create-web-apps-usi
>ng-cors-to-access-files-in-office-365>
>See also:
>Set up an add-in catalog on SharePoint
>From < https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp123530.aspx > But I
>must note that I haven't yet made any Add-Ins for MS Access Web Apps - I
>have tried by I have failed to follow MSDN work-through as my VS2015 setup
>seems to be missing Office Add-Ins templates, and I currently do not know
>where from to get them installed if that possible at all for VS 2015
>Professional edition.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
<<< skipped >>>
>

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Jan 24 13:25:56 2016
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 22:25:56 +0300
Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Access_and_source_control?=
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1jnx7NfyigUisKcq93s84eQa+KVNbPuVJbF3dnP8wyvXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<1453631705.377565551@f146.i.mail.ru>
	<CAEPJO1jnx7NfyigUisKcq93s84eQa+KVNbPuVJbF3dnP8wyvXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1453663556.809139792@f214.i.mail.ru>

 Hi Arthur --

>>>? But I digress. This after all *is* an Access group.
Yes :)

Quite some time ago I worked with DataFlex ( http://tinyurl.com/zocv4gc ) - it was a super-duper 4GL programming language-driven DBMS and I liked and I promoted it but then I was recommended to try an "ugly" MS Access 1.0/1.1 - and "I was sold" to it (MS Access) forever :)...

Thank you.

-- Shamil

>Sunday, January 24, 2016 7:05 AM -05:00 from Arthur Fuller <fuller.artful at gmail.com>:
>
>Shamil,
>
>I looked at the links you sent and I'm I don't see anything there to
>persuade me to follow that path. The Alpha people seem to have MS beat in
>every possible way.
>
>As far as the cloud goes, Alpha works well with AWS, and has even worked
>out a deal with Amazon to make such a deployment as inexpensive as
>possible. In addition, a number of ISPs offer packages that include Alpha's
>Application Server, so it's possible to host your app from there rather
>than set up your own server.
>
>But I digress. This after all *is* an Access group.
>
>Arthur
>
>On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 5:35 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru >
>wrote:
>
>>  Arthur --
>>
>> Thank you for your sharing your experience about MS Access applications
>> development during recent years.
>> Perhaps, recently released by Microsoft Office Add-Ins (
>>  http://tinyurl.com/qb9pbkj ) based on/using JavaScript API for Office (
>>  http://tinyurl.com/zhg5o9s )  and Office UI Fabric (
>>  http://dev.office.com/fabric ) will help to revive real MS Access web
>> apps development?
>>
>> -- Shamil

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Jan 24 13:30:26 2016
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 22:30:26 +0300
Subject: [AccessD] =?utf-8?q?Access_and_source_control?=
In-Reply-To: <CAH+Met-xrCxjus5BZV3VQ_0Ud5Db==TeixFT=-2=EnF5+VB-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAH+Met-xrCxjus5BZV3VQ_0Ud5Db==TeixFT=-2=EnF5+VB-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1453663826.583811132@f214.i.mail.ru>

 Thank you, Charlotte, yours is a true success story!

I wish I had contract for MS Access development with as large state as California is :)

-- Shamil

>Sunday, January 24, 2016 7:52 AM -08:00 from Charlotte Foust <charlotte.foust at gmail.com>:
>
>I, on the other hand, have a contract with the State of California to do
>nothing but build Access apps for various units within the Energy
>Commission.  These are classic apps that help a group manage its workflow
>and provide a way for them to quickly find a particular task for review, as
>well as giving them on the fly reports and the ability to  dump information
>to Excel in a tidy format.  In addition, I present workshops on building
>Access applications and mentor individuals who need help with projects
>they've "developed".
>
>The homegrown stuff is usually pretty bad, but they love what I build.  I
>also tell them when Access is not the appropriate solution.
>
>Charlotte Foust
>(916) 206-4336
>
>On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 3:14 AM, Gustav Brock < gustav at cactus.dk > wrote:
>
>> Hi Shamil
>>
>>
>> 1.       We haven?t had any requests for Access applications for years.
>> That said, we?ve never really had, because clients ask for solutions and
>> really don?t care how they are solved. Some ask for ?web solutions? but
>> that?s rather because of the easy access to such apps. In many cases, a
>> Remote Desktop solution is much easier to establish ? it is browser
>> independent and works from Macs too.
>>
>>
>> 2.       Our old accounting package made in Access is still running for
>> many clients.
>>
>>
>>
>> 3.       Through the years, I have only met two or three, and all were a
>> mess. I would warn against it at any time.
>>
>> /gustav
<<< skipped >>>
>

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Jan 24 13:44:25 2016
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 22:44:25 +0300
Subject: [AccessD]
 =?utf-8?q?MS_Access_Web_Apps_Javascript=28=3F=29_Add-In?=
 =?utf-8?q?s_-_Was=3ARe=5B2=5D=3A_Access_and_source_control?=
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB1584E7792C25AE94893FDBF1CAC60@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584E7792C25AE94893FDBF1CAC60@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1453664664.676034764@f329.i.mail.ru>

 Hi Gustav --

<<<
When I browse the site and study the examples ? this is sooo powerful. And stylish.
It would take months to create just parts of this vast collection.
>>>

Yes. Do you know about Google's "Material Design"
https://www.google.com/design/spec/material-design/introduction.html# ?

? 

The?Google's "Material Design" and?Microsoft Office UI Fabric seems to be competing technologies - compare:

Google's "Material Design" -?Goals: ...? Develop a single underlying system that allows for a unified experience across platforms and device sizes. Mobile precepts are fundamental, but touch, voice, mouse, and keyboard are all ?rst-class input methods."

Microsoft Office UI Fabric: "Fabric is a responsive, mobile-first collection of styles and tools designed to make it quick and simple for you to create web experiences using the Office Design Language."


Thank you.

-- Shamil

>Sunday, January 24, 2016 11:28 AM UTC from Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>
>Hi Shamil
>
>I think ?useful? is not the word as it seems to get half the job done for you.
>
>When I browse the site and study the examples ? this is sooo powerful. And stylish.
>It would take months to create just parts of this vast collection.
>
>I hope I can find some time to work with it.
>
>/gustav
>
>
>Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto: mcp2004 at mail.ru >
>Sendt: 24. januar 2016 11:26
>Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >
>Emne: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]: Access and source control
>
>Hi Gustav --
>
>Yes, it could be useful. Maybe in the middle of this February I'll find some time to study it too.
>
>Here is an additional link which, in my opinion, could be useful:  http://dev.office.com/fabric
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>
>>Saturday, January 23, 2016 10:54 PM UTC from Gustav Brock < gustav at cactus.dk >:
>>
>>Hi Shamil
>>
>>Interesting. I?ll study the cookbook. Perhaps this can be useful. Thanks!
>>
>>/gustav
>>
>>Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto:  mcp2004 at mail.ru >
>>Sendt: 23. januar 2016 22:05
>>Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto:  accessd at databaseadvisors.com >
>>Emne: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]: Access and source control
>>
>>Hi Gustav --
>>
>>I have just found - here is the info on the  "Latest Microsoft Office Developer Tools for Visual Studio 2015" (  http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2015/11/23/latest-microsoft-office-developer-tools-for-visual-studio-2015.aspx ) and this info/article has the link to setup these tools:  http://aka.ms/GetLatestOfficeDevTools
>>
>>Here is the info on supported add-in types and supported host application including MS Access Web apps (  https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp142185.aspx ).
>>
>>It looks like with introduction of this type of Office Add-Ins (with JavaScript API for Office / office.js) MS Access web apps can be made powerful, "smart" and user-friendly... IOW MS Access web apps with latest Office Add-Ins seems to be good candidates for "web solutions" as you mentioned them.
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>-- Shamil
>>
>>>Saturday, January 23, 2016 4:18 PM UTC from Gustav Brock <  gustav at cactus.dk >:
>>>
>>>Hi Shamil
>>>
>>>Yes, you can do ?something? with the Access Web Apps. However, I think (not sure, just my impression) it is targeted superuser types of applications.
>>>
>>>If you look at the page for Office add-ins it doesn?t mention Access with a single Word, so I don?t know how to read that article you link to at SO. Like you, I see no mention of Access in VS2015 SP1 for Office apps, so I guess they have been left in the dark.
>>>
>>>/gustav
>>>
>>>Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto:  mcp2004 at mail.ru >
>>>Sendt: 23. januar 2016 14:22
>>>Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto:  accessd at databaseadvisors.com >
>>>Emne: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]: Access and source control
>>>
>>>Hi Gustav --
>>>
>>>Thank your your reply. Yes, I also haven't had any new MS Access apps developed here for 10+ years.
>>>
>>>>>> Some ask for ?web solutions?
>>>It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins by so making them real candidates for modern "web solutions" - here is a set of the links:
>>>
>>>Create add-ins for Access web apps
>>>From <  https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/dn605890.aspx >
>>>Office 365: Bind and manipulate data in a SharePoint Access app
>>>From <  https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/officeapps/Office-365-Bind-and-4876274e >
>>>Create JavaScript web apps using CORS to access Office 365 APIs
>>>From <  https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/office365/howto/create-web-apps-using-cors-to-access-files-in-office-365 >
>>>See also:
>>>Set up an add-in catalog on SharePoint
>>>From <  https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp123530.aspx > But I must note that I haven't yet made any Add-Ins for MS Access Web Apps - I have tried by I have failed to follow MSDN work-through as my VS2015 setup seems to be missing Office Add-Ins templates, and I currently do not know where from to get them installed if that possible at all for VS 2015 Professional edition.
>>>
>>>Thank you.
>>>
>>>-- Shamil
>>
>>--
>>AccessD mailing list
>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>--
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>-- 
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Jan 25 04:19:58 2016
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 10:19:58 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
 Access and source control
Message-ID: <DB5PR06MB1573C04D488DED40ABB0D0FECAC70@DB5PR06MB1573.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Shamil

Yes and No. I've heard of "Material Design" but - to be honest - I wouldn't know where to find time to study it given that I might not use it at all.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil
Sendt: 24. januar 2016 20:44
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]: Access and source control

 Hi Gustav --

<<<
When I browse the site and study the examples ? this is sooo powerful. And stylish.
It would take months to create just parts of this vast collection.
>>>

Yes. Do you know about Google's "Material Design"
https://www.google.com/design/spec/material-design/introduction.html# ?

? 

The?Google's "Material Design" and?Microsoft Office UI Fabric seems to be competing technologies - compare:

Google's "Material Design" -?Goals: ...? Develop a single underlying system that allows for a unified experience across platforms and device sizes. Mobile precepts are fundamental, but touch, voice, mouse, and keyboard are all ?rst-class input methods."

Microsoft Office UI Fabric: "Fabric is a responsive, mobile-first collection of styles and tools designed to make it quick and simple for you to create web experiences using the Office Design Language."


Thank you.

-- Shamil

>Sunday, January 24, 2016 11:28 AM UTC from Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>
>Hi Shamil
>
>I think ?useful? is not the word as it seems to get half the job done for you.
>
>When I browse the site and study the examples ? this is sooo powerful. And stylish.
>It would take months to create just parts of this vast collection.
>
>I hope I can find some time to work with it.
>
>/gustav
>
>
>Fra: Salakhetdinov Shamil<mailto: mcp2004 at mail.ru >
>Sendt: 24. januar 2016 11:26
>Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving<mailto: 
>accessd at databaseadvisors.com >
>Emne: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - 
>Was:Re[2]: Access and source control
>
>Hi Gustav --
>
>Yes, it could be useful. Maybe in the middle of this February I'll find some time to study it too.
>
>Here is an additional link which, in my opinion, could be useful:  
>http://dev.office.com/fabric
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>
>>Saturday, January 23, 2016 10:54 PM UTC from Gustav Brock < gustav at cactus.dk >:
>>
>>Hi Shamil
>>
>>Interesting. I?ll study the cookbook. Perhaps this can be useful. Thanks!
>>
>>/gustav 


From gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Jan 25 04:35:03 2016
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 10:35:03 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
 Access and source control
Message-ID: <DB5PR06MB15739A852767AF2E91C549CECAC70@DB5PR06MB1573.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Shamil

Jim has a point. If the events are missing, there's isn't much to do other than looking nice.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil
Sendt: 24. januar 2016 20:18
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Emne: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]: Access and source control

 Hi Jim --

<<<
They are great for throwing together a basic?app that does CRUD operations
>>>
Yes, that was my impression too.
But recently released Office Add-Ins together with Office UI Fabric and other related technologies seems to be the "game changers" as they are HTML/CSS/JavaScript -based/-driven and only "the skies are limits" in this case...

Thank you

-- Shamil 


From bensonforums at gmail.com  Mon Jan 25 05:21:17 2016
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 06:21:17 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] Access and source control
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1g6nw2u5MzMbAnwP3yH3bKqDwqz15aseocY-jeC4Z5W=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584C7C93882CF3C363BF464CAC40@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAEPJO1g6nw2u5MzMbAnwP3yH3bKqDwqz15aseocY-jeC4Z5W=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_3kwra5KOk=E6mcp+6_GuY6rUg5x8cFN0knqcCtF1fLjw@mail.gmail.com>

Not only that but I believe on startup especially during development period
I would have an auto exec or hidden startup form that runs some code and
adds the current file to a new or as an incremental file to a compressed
folder with code readily available on the net.
On Jan 23, 2016 4:56 AM, "Arthur Fuller" <fuller.artful at gmail.com> wrote:

> Gustav,
>
> I do the same, and I guess most or all of us do. And that's fine insofar as
> only one developer is working on a project at any given time. It would be
> nice to be able to have a team of developers working on a project, each
> member checking out a few objects and all other developers seeing that
> those have been checked out. You and I could thus work simultaneously on
> different aspects of Project X, then check our objects back in, and if
> anything screws up, then we could roll back just that object while
> preserving the changes that were successful.
>
> That's one of the many reasons that I'm so taken with Alpha Anywhere. It
> stores objects in a granular fashion; any given project might consist of
> hundreds of files of various types -- HTML, CSS, JavaScript, A5W
> (proprietary), text files, Xbasic modules and function libraries, and
> images. The core of the project is a database similar to the database
> window in older versions of Access, containing pointers to the actual files
> (stored in subdirectories of the project) rather than the files themselves.
> This setup makes proper version control a breeze, and ideal for project
> develoment by a team.
>
> /Arthur
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>
> > Hi Arthur
> >
> > Neither can I. And even if you could, it would be faster and safer to
> > restore the complete file from a zipped copy. That's what I do - zip a
> > backup whenever I have done - or plan to start - some major changes. The
> > zip gets the current timestamp as part of the filename. Takes very little
> > time.
> >
> > /gustav
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From jimdettman at verizon.net  Mon Jan 25 07:51:43 2016
From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 08:51:43 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
 Access and source control
In-Reply-To: <1453663074.189747798@f161.i.mail.ru>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<1453555307.786765129@f431.i.mail.ru>	<3642DA7D4BF8406A8C090AC9BEBE1DE4@XPS>
	<1453663074.189747798@f161.i.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <6908CE8BFBA7468F9F397B6BAB641A83@XPS>



 I might be living in a cave<g>, but Office Add-Ins have been around for a
while already and at least in the Access world, no one has done anything
with them (I haven't seen them anywhere else either).

 Access web apps landed with a tremendous thud.

 Consider that we are now almost four years since introduction, and I have
not seen a single app outside of the HR app written by Julian on the App
store, and none anywhere else.  On Experts-Exchange, I think we've answered
a couple dozen questions at most on web apps. In the MVP community, I
believe there are only two MVP's that have done a web app besides Julian and
they more or less gave up on them.

 I'd rather not be so overly negative on them, but they are so limited, you
just cannot do anything meaningful with them expect in a very limited scope.

  Check out this page:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/jj250134.aspx

 Which just about fully describes what you have available to you. For a
developer, there's not a lot there to work with.  They have added some newer
features in 2016, such as e-mailing (only within your own domain though),
downloading of data into Excel, and some linking to Power BI, but still your
limited fundamentally by what you can do in the web app.

 Microsoft is simply aiming for the power users and nothing else.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Salakhetdinov Shamil
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2016 02:18 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
Access and source control

 Hi Jim --

<<<
They are great for throwing together a basic?app that does CRUD operations
>>>
Yes, that was my impression too.
But recently released Office Add-Ins together with Office UI Fabric and
other related technologies seems to be the "game changers" as they are
HTML/CSS/JavaScript -based/-driven and only "the skies are limits" in this
case...

Thank you

-- Shamil

>Sunday, January 24, 2016 12:30 PM -05:00 from "Jim Dettman"
<jimdettman at verizon.net>:
>
>Shamil,
>
><<It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be
>extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins by so
>making them real candidates for modern "web solutions">>
>
>?While to a certain extent that's true, I think if you dig into the Access
>Web Apps, you'll find yourself so restricted you won't find them worth the
>effort despite the ability to extend them.
>
>?There are only a few forms and a handful of controls that you can use, and
>almost no events to speak of.  They are great for throwing together a basic
>app that does CRUD operations, but that's about it.  Try to add any real
>logic and you'll find it quite difficult.
>
>?They are focused and intended for use by a power user.
>
>Jim.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
>Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 08:22 AM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
>Access and source control
>
>?Hi Gustav --
>
>Thank your your reply. Yes, I also haven't had any new MS Access apps
>developed here for 10+ years.
>
>>>>?Some ask for ?web solutions?
>It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be
>extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins by so
>making them real candidates for modern "web solutions" - here is a set of
>the links:
>
>Create add-ins for Access web apps
>From < https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/dn605890.aspx >
>Office 365: Bind and manipulate data in a SharePoint Access app
>From
>< https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/officeapps/Office-365-Bind-and-4876274e >
>Create JavaScript web apps using CORS to access Office 365 APIs
>From
><
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/office365/howto/create-web-apps-usi
>ng-cors-to-access-files-in-office-365>
>See also:
>Set up an add-in catalog on SharePoint
>From < https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp123530.aspx > But
I
>must note that I haven't yet made any Add-Ins for MS Access Web Apps - I
>have tried by I have failed to follow MSDN work-through as my VS2015 setup
>seems to be missing Office Add-Ins templates, and I currently do not know
>where from to get them installed if that possible at all for VS 2015
>Professional edition.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
<<< skipped >>>
>
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From ssharkins at gmail.com  Mon Jan 25 07:59:30 2016
From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 08:59:30 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
	Access and source control
In-Reply-To: <6908CE8BFBA7468F9F397B6BAB641A83@XPS>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>	<1453555307.786765129@f431.i.mail.ru>	<3642DA7D4BF8406A8C090AC9BEBE1DE4@XPS>	<1453663074.189747798@f161.i.mail.ru>
	<6908CE8BFBA7468F9F397B6BAB641A83@XPS>
Message-ID: <00c001d15778$9d03f7b0$d70be710$@gmail.com>

I can't address Access web apps but add-in access is not built into the
interface, so I think users will make more use of them -- at least using
them. I don't know if developers will be more inclined to create them. Jim I
compare them to apps for smart phones -- they have a very limited and rather
universal purpose. 

What's wrong with throwing the power users  bone? :) 

Susan H. 

 

 I'd rather not be so overly negative on them, but they are so limited, you
just cannot do anything meaningful with them expect in a very limited scope.

  Check out this page:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/jj250134.aspx

 Which just about fully describes what you have available to you. For a
developer, there's not a lot there to work with.  They have added some newer
features in 2016, such as e-mailing (only within your own domain though),
downloading of data into Excel, and some linking to Power BI, but still your
limited fundamentally by what you can do in the web app.

 Microsoft is simply aiming for the power users and nothing else.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Salakhetdinov Shamil
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2016 02:18 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
Access and source control

 Hi Jim --

<<<
They are great for throwing together a basic?app that does CRUD operations
>>>
Yes, that was my impression too.
But recently released Office Add-Ins together with Office UI Fabric and
other related technologies seems to be the "game changers" as they are
HTML/CSS/JavaScript -based/-driven and only "the skies are limits" in this
case...

Thank you

-- Shamil

>Sunday, January 24, 2016 12:30 PM -05:00 from "Jim Dettman"
<jimdettman at verizon.net>:
>
>Shamil,
>
><<It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be 
>extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins 
>by so making them real candidates for modern "web solutions">>
>
>?While to a certain extent that's true, I think if you dig into the 
>Access Web Apps, you'll find yourself so restricted you won't find them 
>worth the effort despite the ability to extend them.
>
>?There are only a few forms and a handful of controls that you can use, 
>and almost no events to speak of.  They are great for throwing together 
>a basic app that does CRUD operations, but that's about it.  Try to add 
>any real logic and you'll find it quite difficult.
>
>?They are focused and intended for use by a power user.
>
>Jim.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf 
>Of Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 08:22 AM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
>Access and source control
>
>?Hi Gustav --
>
>Thank your your reply. Yes, I also haven't had any new MS Access apps 
>developed here for 10+ years.
>
>>>>?Some ask for ?web solutions?
>It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be 
>extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins 
>by so making them real candidates for modern "web solutions" - here is 
>a set of the links:
>
>Create add-ins for Access web apps
>From < https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/dn605890.aspx > 
>Office 365: Bind and manipulate data in a SharePoint Access app From < 
>https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/officeapps/Office-365-Bind-and-4876274e 
>> Create JavaScript web apps using CORS to access Office 365 APIs From 
><
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/office365/howto/create-web-apps-usi
>ng-cors-to-access-files-in-office-365>
>See also:
>Set up an add-in catalog on SharePoint
>From < https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp123530.aspx > 
>But
I
>must note that I haven't yet made any Add-Ins for MS Access Web Apps - 
>I have tried by I have failed to follow MSDN work-through as my VS2015 
>setup seems to be missing Office Add-Ins templates, and I currently do 
>not know where from to get them installed if that possible at all for 
>VS 2015 Professional edition.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
<<< skipped >>>
>
--
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From jimdettman at verizon.net  Mon Jan 25 08:59:04 2016
From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 09:59:04 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins -
 Was:Re[2]:Access and source control
In-Reply-To: <00c001d15778$9d03f7b0$d70be710$@gmail.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<1453555307.786765129@f431.i.mail.ru>	<3642DA7D4BF8406A8C090AC9BEBE1DE4@XPS>
	<1453663074.189747798@f161.i.mail.ru>	<6908CE8BFBA7468F9F397B6BAB641A83@XPS>
	<00c001d15778$9d03f7b0$d70be710$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <848862E476324B20A2E499B67D295BD2@XPS>

<<What's wrong with throwing the power users  bone? :) >>

  Nothing at all, but there's nothing left for developers there.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Susan Harkins
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 09:00 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins -
Was:Re[2]:Access and source control

I can't address Access web apps but add-in access is not built into the
interface, so I think users will make more use of them -- at least using
them. I don't know if developers will be more inclined to create them. Jim I
compare them to apps for smart phones -- they have a very limited and rather
universal purpose. 

What's wrong with throwing the power users  bone? :) 

Susan H. 

 

 I'd rather not be so overly negative on them, but they are so limited, you
just cannot do anything meaningful with them expect in a very limited scope.

  Check out this page:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/jj250134.aspx

 Which just about fully describes what you have available to you. For a
developer, there's not a lot there to work with.  They have added some newer
features in 2016, such as e-mailing (only within your own domain though),
downloading of data into Excel, and some linking to Power BI, but still your
limited fundamentally by what you can do in the web app.

 Microsoft is simply aiming for the power users and nothing else.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Salakhetdinov Shamil
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2016 02:18 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
Access and source control

 Hi Jim --

<<<
They are great for throwing together a basic?app that does CRUD operations
>>>
Yes, that was my impression too.
But recently released Office Add-Ins together with Office UI Fabric and
other related technologies seems to be the "game changers" as they are
HTML/CSS/JavaScript -based/-driven and only "the skies are limits" in this
case...

Thank you

-- Shamil

>Sunday, January 24, 2016 12:30 PM -05:00 from "Jim Dettman"
<jimdettman at verizon.net>:
>
>Shamil,
>
><<It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be 
>extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins 
>by so making them real candidates for modern "web solutions">>
>
>?While to a certain extent that's true, I think if you dig into the 
>Access Web Apps, you'll find yourself so restricted you won't find them 
>worth the effort despite the ability to extend them.
>
>?There are only a few forms and a handful of controls that you can use, 
>and almost no events to speak of.  They are great for throwing together 
>a basic app that does CRUD operations, but that's about it.  Try to add 
>any real logic and you'll find it quite difficult.
>
>?They are focused and intended for use by a power user.
>
>Jim.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf 
>Of Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 08:22 AM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
>Access and source control
>
>?Hi Gustav --
>
>Thank your your reply. Yes, I also haven't had any new MS Access apps 
>developed here for 10+ years.
>
>>>>?Some ask for ?web solutions?
>It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be 
>extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins 
>by so making them real candidates for modern "web solutions" - here is 
>a set of the links:
>
>Create add-ins for Access web apps
>From < https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/dn605890.aspx > 
>Office 365: Bind and manipulate data in a SharePoint Access app From < 
>https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/officeapps/Office-365-Bind-and-4876274e 
>> Create JavaScript web apps using CORS to access Office 365 APIs From 
><
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/office365/howto/create-web-apps-usi
>ng-cors-to-access-files-in-office-365>
>See also:
>Set up an add-in catalog on SharePoint
>From < https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp123530.aspx > 
>But
I
>must note that I haven't yet made any Add-Ins for MS Access Web Apps - 
>I have tried by I have failed to follow MSDN work-through as my VS2015 
>setup seems to be missing Office Add-Ins templates, and I currently do 
>not know where from to get them installed if that possible at all for 
>VS 2015 Professional edition.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
<<< skipped >>>
>
--
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http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


-- 
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From ssharkins at gmail.com  Mon Jan 25 09:06:06 2016
From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 10:06:06 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins -
	Was:Re[2]:Access and source control
In-Reply-To: <848862E476324B20A2E499B67D295BD2@XPS>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>	<1453555307.786765129@f431.i.mail.ru>	<3642DA7D4BF8406A8C090AC9BEBE1DE4@XPS>	<1453663074.189747798@f161.i.mail.ru>	<6908CE8BFBA7468F9F397B6BAB641A83@XPS>	<00c001d15778$9d03f7b0$d70be710$@gmail.com>
	<848862E476324B20A2E499B67D295BD2@XPS>
Message-ID: <000f01d15781$eaf3f7f0$c0dbe7d0$@gmail.com>

I think these have potential for developers who can see small problems and
supply a simple add-in solution -- things that are common and that we take
for granted. 

I wrote about these last month. As an example I downloaded one so I include
directions for using the interface -- very simple and the whole point is to
simply let users know the feature is there. But, the add-in I downloaded is
a simple add-in that removes spaces before and after the text -- a simple
task for most of us but one that involves knowing about the TRIM functions,
applying the and possibly even replacing raw data with the results so
existing formulas can use the data. 

Now, even though I know how to do that, why would I put in the extra time
and effort if all I now have to do is click a few buttons in that add-in and
it does it all for me? 

So, I think if developers and power users alike with think of this feature
as ease-of-use and quick solutions rather than customization, they will find
many uses for them. I also see developers using these to create small
inclusive units that they can combine to create more complex solutions --
perhaps --- I'm still not sure about this last part. That might not be
possible. 

Susan H. 

<<What's wrong with throwing the power users  bone? :) >>

  Nothing at all, but there's nothing left for developers there.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Susan Harkins
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 09:00 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins -
Was:Re[2]:Access and source control

I can't address Access web apps but add-in access is not built into the
interface, so I think users will make more use of them -- at least using
them. I don't know if developers will be more inclined to create them. Jim I
compare them to apps for smart phones -- they have a very limited and rather
universal purpose. 

What's wrong with throwing the power users  bone? :) 

Susan H. 

 

 I'd rather not be so overly negative on them, but they are so limited, you
just cannot do anything meaningful with them expect in a very limited scope.

  Check out this page:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/jj250134.aspx

 Which just about fully describes what you have available to you. For a
developer, there's not a lot there to work with.  They have added some newer
features in 2016, such as e-mailing (only within your own domain though),
downloading of data into Excel, and some linking to Power BI, but still your
limited fundamentally by what you can do in the web app.

 Microsoft is simply aiming for the power users and nothing else.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Salakhetdinov Shamil
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2016 02:18 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
Access and source control

 Hi Jim --

<<<
They are great for throwing together a basic?app that does CRUD operations
>>>
Yes, that was my impression too.
But recently released Office Add-Ins together with Office UI Fabric and
other related technologies seems to be the "game changers" as they are
HTML/CSS/JavaScript -based/-driven and only "the skies are limits" in this
case...

Thank you

-- Shamil

>Sunday, January 24, 2016 12:30 PM -05:00 from "Jim Dettman"
<jimdettman at verizon.net>:
>
>Shamil,
>
><<It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be 
>extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins 
>by so making them real candidates for modern "web solutions">>
>
>?While to a certain extent that's true, I think if you dig into the 
>Access Web Apps, you'll find yourself so restricted you won't find them 
>worth the effort despite the ability to extend them.
>
>?There are only a few forms and a handful of controls that you can use, 
>and almost no events to speak of.  They are great for throwing together 
>a basic app that does CRUD operations, but that's about it.  Try to add 
>any real logic and you'll find it quite difficult.
>
>?They are focused and intended for use by a power user.
>
>Jim.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf 
>Of Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 08:22 AM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
>Access and source control
>
>?Hi Gustav --
>
>Thank your your reply. Yes, I also haven't had any new MS Access apps 
>developed here for 10+ years.
>
>>>>?Some ask for ?web solutions?
>It looks like using VS 2015 "dumb" MS Access Web Apps can be 
>extended/enhanced by using Office365/SharePoint JavaScript(?) Add-ins 
>by so making them real candidates for modern "web solutions" - here is 
>a set of the links:
>
>Create add-ins for Access web apps
>From < https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/dn605890.aspx > 
>Office 365: Bind and manipulate data in a SharePoint Access app From < 
>https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/officeapps/Office-365-Bind-and-4876274e
>> Create JavaScript web apps using CORS to access Office 365 APIs From
><
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/office365/howto/create-web-apps-usi
>ng-cors-to-access-files-in-office-365>
>See also:
>Set up an add-in catalog on SharePoint
>From < https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/fp123530.aspx > 
>But
I
>must note that I haven't yet made any Add-Ins for MS Access Web Apps - 
>I have tried by I have failed to follow MSDN work-through as my VS2015 
>setup seems to be missing Office Add-Ins templates, and I currently do 
>not know where from to get them installed if that possible at all for 
>VS 2015 Professional edition.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
<<< skipped >>>
>
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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Mon Jan 25 09:08:18 2016
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 18:08:18 +0300
Subject: [AccessD]
 =?utf-8?q?MS_Access_Web_Apps_Javascript=28=3F=29_Add-In?=
 =?utf-8?q?s_-_Was=3ARe=5B2=5D=3A_Access_and_source_control?=
In-Reply-To: <DB5PR06MB15739A852767AF2E91C549CECAC70@DB5PR06MB1573.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DB5PR06MB15739A852767AF2E91C549CECAC70@DB5PR06MB1573.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1453734498.208473274@f403.i.mail.ru>

 Hi Gustav --

Have a look: ?http://tinyurl.com/h4a8yuf
?
<<<
Office Add-ins platform overview

...
What can an Office Add-in do?
An Office Add-in can do pretty much anything a webpage can do inside the browser, such as the following:
* Provide an interactive UI and custom logic through JavaScript.
* Use JavaScript frameworks such as jQuery.
* Connect to REST endpoints and web services via HTTP and AJAX.
...
>>>
I mean events to process will be mainly HTML DOM events (there are a few Office Add-Ins platform specific events but they are not for end-user's UI <-> interaction AFAIU). But I'm still to see any real examples (from MS) where a sample Office Add-in is doing "pretty much everything it wants" with a web page it's hosted at...

On the same page I have referred above it's written (about Office Add-In limitation):

<<<

Understanding the runtime
Office Add-ins are secured by an add-in runtime environment, a multiple-tier permissions model, and performance governors. This framework protects the user's experience in the following ways:
* Access to the host application's UI frame is managed.
* Only indirect access to the host application's UI thread is allowed.
* Modal interactions are not allowed, for example JavaScript alerts aren't allowed.
.... >>>



Thank you.

-- Shamil

>Monday, January 25, 2016 10:35 AM UTC from Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>
>Hi Shamil
>
>Jim has a point. If the events are missing, there's isn't much to do other than looking nice.
>
>/gustav
>
>-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>Fra: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sendt: 24. januar 2016 20:18
>Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving < accessd at databaseadvisors.com >
>Emne: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]: Access and source control
>
>?Hi Jim --
>
><<<
>They are great for throwing together a basic?app that does CRUD operations
>>>>
>Yes, that was my impression too.
>But recently released Office Add-Ins together with Office UI Fabric and other related technologies seems to be the "game changers" as they are HTML/CSS/JavaScript -based/-driven and only "the skies are limits" in this case...
>
>Thank you
>
>-- Shamil 
>
>-- 
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Mon Jan 25 09:48:29 2016
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 18:48:29 +0300
Subject: [AccessD]
 =?utf-8?q?MS_Access_Web_Apps_Javascript=28=3F=29_Add-In?=
 =?utf-8?q?s_-_Was=3ARe=5B2=5D=3A_Access_and_source_control?=
In-Reply-To: <6908CE8BFBA7468F9F397B6BAB641A83@XPS>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<1453663074.189747798@f161.i.mail.ru>
	<6908CE8BFBA7468F9F397B6BAB641A83@XPS>
Message-ID: <1453736909.124182318@f227.i.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

But for Office 2016 Office Add-Ins technology has got more new features aimed at developers I suppose.
I have just posted a link on my reply to Gustav that with Office Add-ins (VS 2015 Update1) you can do "pretty much anything" -? http://tinyurl.com/h4a8yuf ?. 

Here is a note which doesn't mention MS Access Web Apps:

"... at the recent Build 2015 conference, Microsoft revealed that it's making the Office suite into a platform, allowing developers to integrate their apps and services directly into Office 2016. In other words, you won't have to leave Word, Excel, PowerPoint, or Outlook to use third-party apps that will include the likes of SAP, Salesforce, Uber and DocuSign.
For example, the Uber add-on will allow Outlook users to set a reminder to call a car in order to get them to their next appointment, and the SAP add-on will let Excel users connect to the on-premise SAP server and import data directly into a spreadsheet." ( http://tinyurl.com/hzoxlfm ) but AFAIU you can develop similar content- and task- Office Add-Ins to be used from within MS Access Web apps.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

>Monday, January 25, 2016 8:51 AM -05:00 from "Jim Dettman" <jimdettman at verizon.net>:
>
>
>
>?I might be living in a cave<g>, but Office Add-Ins have been around for a
>while already and at least in the Access world, no one has done anything
>with them (I haven't seen them anywhere else either).
>
>?Access web apps landed with a tremendous thud.
>
>?Consider that we are now almost four years since introduction, and I have
>not seen a single app outside of the HR app written by Julian on the App
>store, and none anywhere else.  On Experts-Exchange, I think we've answered
>a couple dozen questions at most on web apps. In the MVP community, I
>believe there are only two MVP's that have done a web app besides Julian and
>they more or less gave up on them.
>
>?I'd rather not be so overly negative on them, but they are so limited, you
>just cannot do anything meaningful with them expect in a very limited scope.
>
>??Check out this page:
>
>https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/jj250134.aspx
>
>?Which just about fully describes what you have available to you. For a
>developer, there's not a lot there to work with.  They have added some newer
>features in 2016, such as e-mailing (only within your own domain though),
>downloading of data into Excel, and some linking to Power BI, but still your
>limited fundamentally by what you can do in the web app.
>
>?Microsoft is simply aiming for the power users and nothing else.
>
>Jim.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
>Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2016 02:18 PM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
>Access and source control
>
>?Hi Jim --
>
><<<
>They are great for throwing together a basic?app that does CRUD operations
>>>>
>Yes, that was my impression too.
>But recently released Office Add-Ins together with Office UI Fabric and
>other related technologies seems to be the "game changers" as they are
>HTML/CSS/JavaScript -based/-driven and only "the skies are limits" in this
>case...
>
>Thank you
>
>-- Shamil
>
<<<skipped>>>
>

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Mon Jan 25 10:17:19 2016
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 19:17:19 +0300
Subject: [AccessD]
 =?utf-8?q?MS_Access_Web_Apps_Javascript=28=3F=29_Add-In?=
 =?utf-8?q?s_-_Was=3ARe=5B2=5D=3AAccess_and_source_control?=
In-Reply-To: <000f01d15781$eaf3f7f0$c0dbe7d0$@gmail.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<848862E476324B20A2E499B67D295BD2@XPS>
	<000f01d15781$eaf3f7f0$c0dbe7d0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1453738639.924097641@f178.i.mail.ru>

 Hi Susan --

Yes, " I also see developers using these (Office Add-Ins) to create small? inclusive units that they can combine to create more complex solutions" ?- I'd guess this is where they (MS) are driving the Office platform including MS Access with MS Access Web Apps.

Thank you.

-- Shamil


>Monday, January 25, 2016 10:06 AM -05:00 from "Susan Harkins" <ssharkins at gmail.com>:
>
>I think these have potential for developers who can see small problems and
>supply a simple add-in solution -- things that are common and that we take
>for granted. 
>
>I wrote about these last month. As an example I downloaded one so I include
>directions for using the interface -- very simple and the whole point is to
>simply let users know the feature is there. But, the add-in I downloaded is
>a simple add-in that removes spaces before and after the text -- a simple
>task for most of us but one that involves knowing about the TRIM functions,
>applying the and possibly even replacing raw data with the results so
>existing formulas can use the data. 
>
>Now, even though I know how to do that, why would I put in the extra time
>and effort if all I now have to do is click a few buttons in that add-in and
>it does it all for me? 
>
>So, I think if developers and power users alike with think of this feature
>as ease-of-use and quick solutions rather than customization, they will find
>many uses for them. I also see developers using these to create small
>inclusive units that they can combine to create more complex solutions --
>perhaps --- I'm still not sure about this last part. That might not be
>possible. 
>
>Susan H. 
>
><<What's wrong with throwing the power users  bone? :) >>
>
>??Nothing at all, but there's nothing left for developers there.
>
>Jim.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
>Susan Harkins
>Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 09:00 AM
>To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
>Subject: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins -
>Was:Re[2]:Access and source control
>
>I can't address Access web apps but add-in access is not built into the
>interface, so I think users will make more use of them -- at least using
>them. I don't know if developers will be more inclined to create them. Jim I
>compare them to apps for smart phones -- they have a very limited and rather
>universal purpose. 
>
>What's wrong with throwing the power users  bone? :) 
>
>Susan H. 
<<< skipped >>>
>

From jimdettman at verizon.net  Mon Jan 25 11:47:46 2016
From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 12:47:46 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
 Access and source control
In-Reply-To: <1453736909.124182318@f227.i.mail.ru>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<1453663074.189747798@f161.i.mail.ru>	<6908CE8BFBA7468F9F397B6BAB641A83@XPS>
	<1453736909.124182318@f227.i.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <E62C791463734F30BFCD3DD28D05DD84@XPS>


 Yes, the add-ins do have developers type features and are intended for
developers, but not Access Web Apps.

Jim. 

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Salakhetdinov Shamil
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 10:48 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
Access and source control

 Hi Jim --

But for Office 2016 Office Add-Ins technology has got more new features
aimed at developers I suppose.
I have just posted a link on my reply to Gustav that with Office Add-ins (VS
2015 Update1) you can do "pretty much anything" -?
http://tinyurl.com/h4a8yuf ?. 

Here is a note which doesn't mention MS Access Web Apps:

"... at the recent Build 2015 conference, Microsoft revealed that it's
making the Office suite into a platform, allowing developers to integrate
their apps and services directly into Office 2016. In other words, you won't
have to leave Word, Excel, PowerPoint, or Outlook to use third-party apps
that will include the likes of SAP, Salesforce, Uber and DocuSign.
For example, the Uber add-on will allow Outlook users to set a reminder to
call a car in order to get them to their next appointment, and the SAP
add-on will let Excel users connect to the on-premise SAP server and import
data directly into a spreadsheet." ( http://tinyurl.com/hzoxlfm ) but AFAIU
you can develop similar content- and task- Office Add-Ins to be used from
within MS Access Web apps.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

>Monday, January 25, 2016 8:51 AM -05:00 from "Jim Dettman"
<jimdettman at verizon.net>:
>
>
>
>?I might be living in a cave<g>, but Office Add-Ins have been around for a
>while already and at least in the Access world, no one has done anything
>with them (I haven't seen them anywhere else either).
>
>?Access web apps landed with a tremendous thud.
>
>?Consider that we are now almost four years since introduction, and I have
>not seen a single app outside of the HR app written by Julian on the App
>store, and none anywhere else.  On Experts-Exchange, I think we've answered
>a couple dozen questions at most on web apps. In the MVP community, I
>believe there are only two MVP's that have done a web app besides Julian
and
>they more or less gave up on them.
>
>?I'd rather not be so overly negative on them, but they are so limited, you
>just cannot do anything meaningful with them expect in a very limited
scope.
>
>??Check out this page:
>
>https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/jj250134.aspx
>
>?Which just about fully describes what you have available to you. For a
>developer, there's not a lot there to work with.  They have added some
newer
>features in 2016, such as e-mailing (only within your own domain though),
>downloading of data into Excel, and some linking to Power BI, but still
your
>limited fundamentally by what you can do in the web app.
>
>?Microsoft is simply aiming for the power users and nothing else.
>
>Jim.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
>Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2016 02:18 PM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins -
Was:Re[2]:
>Access and source control
>
>?Hi Jim --
>
><<<
>They are great for throwing together a basic?app that does CRUD operations
>>>>
>Yes, that was my impression too.
>But recently released Office Add-Ins together with Office UI Fabric and
>other related technologies seems to be the "game changers" as they are
>HTML/CSS/JavaScript -based/-driven and only "the skies are limits" in this
>case...
>
>Thank you
>
>-- Shamil
>
<<<skipped>>>
>
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Mon Jan 25 12:14:04 2016
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 21:14:04 +0300
Subject: [AccessD]
 =?utf-8?q?MS_Access_Web_Apps_Javascript=28=3F=29_Add-In?=
 =?utf-8?q?s_-_Was=3ARe=5B2=5D=3A_Access_and_source_control?=
In-Reply-To: <E62C791463734F30BFCD3DD28D05DD84@XPS>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<1453736909.124182318@f227.i.mail.ru>
	<E62C791463734F30BFCD3DD28D05DD84@XPS>
Message-ID: <1453745644.105429856@f211.i.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

As Susan noted in this thread:? "I also see developers using these (Office Add-Ins) to create small inclusive units that they can combine to create more complex solutions" - I share this Susan opinion...

Let's see how they - MS Access Web Apps with Office Add-Ins (developed using MS Office 2016 and VS 2015 Update 1 version and up) and the whole MS Office Platform - will evolve.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

>Monday, January 25, 2016 12:47 PM -05:00 from "Jim Dettman" <jimdettman at verizon.net>:
>
>
>?Yes, the add-ins do have developers type features and are intended for
>developers, but not Access Web Apps.
>
>Jim. 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
>Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 10:48 AM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: Re: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
>Access and source control
>
>?Hi Jim --
>
>But for Office 2016 Office Add-Ins technology has got more new features
>aimed at developers I suppose.
>I have just posted a link on my reply to Gustav that with Office Add-ins (VS
>2015 Update1) you can do "pretty much anything" -?
>http://tinyurl.com/h4a8yuf ?. 
>
>Here is a note which doesn't mention MS Access Web Apps:
>
>"... at the recent Build 2015 conference, Microsoft revealed that it's
>making the Office suite into a platform, allowing developers to integrate
>their apps and services directly into Office 2016. In other words, you won't
>have to leave Word, Excel, PowerPoint, or Outlook to use third-party apps
>that will include the likes of SAP, Salesforce, Uber and DocuSign.
>For example, the Uber add-on will allow Outlook users to set a reminder to
>call a car in order to get them to their next appointment, and the SAP
>add-on will let Excel users connect to the on-premise SAP server and import
>data directly into a spreadsheet." (  http://tinyurl.com/hzoxlfm ) but AFAIU
>you can develop similar content- and task- Office Add-Ins to be used from
>within MS Access Web apps.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
<<< skipped >>>
>

From ssharkins at gmail.com  Mon Jan 25 12:17:08 2016
From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 13:17:08 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] MS Access Web Apps Javascript(?) Add-Ins - Was:Re[2]:
	Access and source control
In-Reply-To: <1453745644.105429856@f211.i.mail.ru>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>	<1453736909.124182318@f227.i.mail.ru>	<E62C791463734F30BFCD3DD28D05DD84@XPS>
	<1453745644.105429856@f211.i.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <004101d1579c$9b371c90$d1a555b0$@gmail.com>

Shamil, that's what I think too. I'm still struggling to catch up and I might not ever. ;) I really don't even know where to start - I can read, but so far, have failed to actually implement anything. 

Susan H. 
Hi Jim --

As Susan noted in this thread:  "I also see developers using these (Office Add-Ins) to create small inclusive units that they can combine to create more complex solutions" - I share this Susan opinion...

Let's see how they - MS Access Web Apps with Office Add-Ins (developed using MS Office 2016 and VS 2015 Update 1 version and up) and the whole MS Office Platform - will evolve.





From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Tue Jan 26 11:28:26 2016
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 20:28:26 +0300
Subject: [AccessD]
 =?utf-8?q?MS_Access_Web_Apps_Javascript=28=3F=29_Add-In?=
 =?utf-8?q?s_-_Was=3ARe=5B2=5D=3A_Access_and_source_control?=
In-Reply-To: <004101d1579c$9b371c90$d1a555b0$@gmail.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB1584D99B30DC99382BD8411ACAC50@VI1PR06MB1584.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<1453745644.105429856@f211.i.mail.ru>
	<004101d1579c$9b371c90$d1a555b0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1453829306.277035516@f89.i.mail.ru>

 Susan --

I still have had no time to investigate this new for me technology in more details. I'm planning to do that in the middle of this February. So I should better not advise "where to start" with it.

I'm just planning to make a simple MS Access Web App and then add to this MS Access Web app a few content-/-task pane Office Add-Ins.

The key links for me to start with in February are the following:

Create add-ins for Access web apps
https://msdn.microsoft.com/EN-US/library/office/dn605890.aspx
Task pane and content add-ins for Office 2013
https://msdn.microsoft.com/EN-US/library/office/fp123523.aspx But they can change.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

>Monday, January 25, 2016 1:17 PM -05:00 from "Susan Harkins" <ssharkins at gmail.com>:
>
>Shamil, that's what I think too. I'm still struggling to catch up and I might not ever. ;) I really don't even know where to start - I can read, but so far, have failed to actually implement anything. 
>
>Susan H. 
>Hi Jim --
>
>As Susan noted in this thread:  "I also see developers using these (Office Add-Ins) to create small inclusive units that they can combine to create more complex solutions" - I share this Susan opinion...
>
>Let's see how they - MS Access Web Apps with Office Add-Ins (developed using MS Office 2016 and VS 2015 Update 1 version and up) and the whole MS Office Platform - will evolve.
>
>


From Salato at ky.gov  Fri Jan 29 12:58:28 2016
From: Salato at ky.gov (FW Salato Center)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 18:58:28 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Password protect 2007 db
Message-ID: <E0F5F465EAB4E94EB468409FB2A69C3B4BE5F7D3@AGEXM03.eas.ds.ky.gov>

https://support.office.com/en-ie/article/Encrypt-a-database-by-using-a-database-password-fe1cc5fe-f9a5-4784-b090-fdb2673457ab#bm2

I need to password protect an Access 2007 split database, which will have a handful of people accessing it regularly. I don't need serious protection as I'm not worried about someone stealing info. It'll be on a server with company access and I just need to stop agency-wide employees from accidentally opening it and doing damage. I'll have regular backups and nothing's confidential. I'm just trying to avoid unintentional access.

This seems good enough to me.

Thoughts?

Susan H.

From marksimms at verizon.net  Fri Jan 29 13:15:28 2016
From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 14:15:28 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] Password protect 2007 db
In-Reply-To: <E0F5F465EAB4E94EB468409FB2A69C3B4BE5F7D3@AGEXM03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
References: <E0F5F465EAB4E94EB468409FB2A69C3B4BE5F7D3@AGEXM03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
Message-ID: <023901d15ac9$6ad47590$407d60b0$@net>

I discovered it's impossible to open a password protected back-end from a
front-end programmatically.....
Unless the code to open it resides in the backend. In that case, you must
password protect the VBE.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf
> Of FW Salato Center
> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2016 1:58 PM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: [AccessD] Password protect 2007 db
>
> https://support.office.com/en-ie/article/Encrypt-a-database-by-using-a-
> database-password-fe1cc5fe-f9a5-4784-b090-fdb2673457ab#bm2
>
> I need to password protect an Access 2007 split database, which will
> have a handful of people accessing it regularly. I don't need serious
> protection as I'm not worried about someone stealing info. It'll be on
> a server with company access and I just need to stop agency-wide
> employees from accidentally opening it and doing damage. I'll have
> regular backups and nothing's confidential. I'm just trying to avoid
> unintentional access.
>
> This seems good enough to me.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Susan H.
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jan 29 13:34:40 2016
From: jamesbutton at blueyonder.co.uk (James Button)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 19:34:40 -0000
Subject: [AccessD] Password protect 2007 db
In-Reply-To: <023901d15ac9$6ad47590$407d60b0$@net>
References: <E0F5F465EAB4E94EB468409FB2A69C3B4BE5F7D3@AGEXM03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
	<023901d15ac9$6ad47590$407d60b0$@net>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAO8VDlNCBfdEkctCy61lm0HCgAAAEAAAAOkNmODGkxJFsXoD4w1KmA0BAAAAAA==@blueyonder.co.uk>

I'd add not to forget to ensure the .db__ files are actually secure from access
- deletion, replacement, or reversion via direct access or directions to the
facilities backup/restore facility by any NOT-authorised persons.
For general auditing I would expect the facility to record 'who' accessed the
facility, when, and what they did - those 'who's being checked (password etc.)
by the OS, and then against a list of authorised users.  

Problems I experienced with a DB facility on a client's systems.
Also worth ensuring that the back-end includes something that will function as a
version check for each 'facility' linking to it - maybe a pair of timestamps -
last structure/code change  and  last 'application' backup taken. 

JimB

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Simms
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2016 7:15 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Password protect 2007 db

I discovered it's impossible to open a password protected back-end from a
front-end programmatically.....
Unless the code to open it resides in the backend. In that case, you must
password protect the VBE.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf
> Of FW Salato Center
> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2016 1:58 PM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: [AccessD] Password protect 2007 db
>
> https://support.office.com/en-ie/article/Encrypt-a-database-by-using-a-
> database-password-fe1cc5fe-f9a5-4784-b090-fdb2673457ab#bm2
>
> I need to password protect an Access 2007 split database, which will
> have a handful of people accessing it regularly. I don't need serious
> protection as I'm not worried about someone stealing info. It'll be on
> a server with company access and I just need to stop agency-wide
> employees from accidentally opening it and doing damage. I'll have
> regular backups and nothing's confidential. I'm just trying to avoid
> unintentional access.
>
> This seems good enough to me.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Susan H.
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From Salato at ky.gov  Fri Jan 29 13:47:27 2016
From: Salato at ky.gov (FW Salato Center)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 19:47:27 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Password protect 2007 db
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAO8VDlNCBfdEkctCy61lm0HCgAAAEAAAAOkNmODGkxJFsXoD4w1KmA0BAAAAAA==@blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <E0F5F465EAB4E94EB468409FB2A69C3B4BE5F7D3@AGEXM03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
	<023901d15ac9$6ad47590$407d60b0$@net>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAO8VDlNCBfdEkctCy61lm0HCgAAAEAAAAOkNmODGkxJFsXoD4w1KmA0BAAAAAA==@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <E0F5F465EAB4E94EB468409FB2A69C3B4BE5F81B@AGEXM03.eas.ds.ky.gov>

I hadn't thought about that -- it's a great idea. It's entirely possible that we might have one person updating records and therefore, it won't need to be on the server. I don't think they've decided yet. But this is something I'll definitely need to work out. Thanks for suggesting it. 

Susan H. 

I'd add not to forget to ensure the .db__ files are actually secure from access
- deletion, replacement, or reversion via direct access or directions to the facilities backup/restore facility by any NOT-authorised persons.



From robert at servicexp.com  Fri Jan 29 15:20:47 2016
From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 16:20:47 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] Password protect 2007 db
In-Reply-To: <E0F5F465EAB4E94EB468409FB2A69C3B4BE5F7D3@AGEXM03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
References: <E0F5F465EAB4E94EB468409FB2A69C3B4BE5F7D3@AGEXM03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
Message-ID: <002801d15ada$ed058f70$c710ae50$@com>

Can you use the built Workgroup security?

WBR
Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of FW
Salato Center
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2016 1:58 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: [AccessD] Password protect 2007 db

https://support.office.com/en-ie/article/Encrypt-a-database-by-using-a-datab
ase-password-fe1cc5fe-f9a5-4784-b090-fdb2673457ab#bm2

I need to password protect an Access 2007 split database, which will have a
handful of people accessing it regularly. I don't need serious protection as
I'm not worried about someone stealing info. It'll be on a server with
company access and I just need to stop agency-wide employees from
accidentally opening it and doing damage. I'll have regular backups and
nothing's confidential. I'm just trying to avoid unintentional access.

This seems good enough to me.

Thoughts?

Susan H.
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Fri Jan 29 18:28:27 2016
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2016 10:28:27 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Password protect 2007 db
In-Reply-To: <002801d15ada$ed058f70$c710ae50$@com>
References: <E0F5F465EAB4E94EB468409FB2A69C3B4BE5F7D3@AGEXM03.eas.ds.ky.gov>,
	<002801d15ada$ed058f70$c710ae50$@com>
Message-ID: <56AC03AB.24726.442A327@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

That's depreciated, to say nothing of it being a royal PITA :(

A locked down FE with a simple login form on startup is all that's needed in this situation.


For the BE, include a Autoexec macro which just closes the file when it is opened and make 
all the tables Hidden in case someon holds down the shift key when opening it.



On 29 Jan 2016 at 16:20, Robert wrote:

> Can you use the built Workgroup security?
> 
> WBR
> Robert
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf
> Of FW Salato Center Sent: Friday, January 29, 2016 1:58 PM To: Access
> Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Password
> protect 2007 db
> 
> https://support.office.com/en-ie/article/Encrypt-a-database-by-using-a
> -datab ase-password-fe1cc5fe-f9a5-4784-b090-fdb2673457ab#bm2
> 
> I need to password protect an Access 2007 split database, which will
> have a handful of people accessing it regularly. I don't need serious
> protection as I'm not worried about someone stealing info. It'll be on
> a server with company access and I just need to stop agency-wide
> employees from accidentally opening it and doing damage. I'll have
> regular backups and nothing's confidential. I'm just trying to avoid
> unintentional access.
> 
> This seems good enough to me.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Susan H.
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Jan 30 12:40:15 2016
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2016 11:40:15 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [AccessD] Ford Model T - 100 Years Later - SafeShare.TV
In-Reply-To: <56A51878.2060108@Gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1859685016.3337117.1454179215483.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca>

Love it.

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Colby" <jwcolby at gmail.com>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2016 10:31:20 AM
Subject: [AccessD] Ford Model T - 100 Years Later - SafeShare.TV

Can we make this somehow database relevant?  Fascinating none the less.

http://safeshare.tv/w/ShbgvwazCZ

-- 
John W. Colby

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From charlotte.foust at gmail.com  Sun Jan 31 10:49:58 2016
From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 08:49:58 -0800
Subject: [AccessD] Password protect 2007 db
In-Reply-To: <E0F5F465EAB4E94EB468409FB2A69C3B4BE5F7D3@AGEXM03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
References: <E0F5F465EAB4E94EB468409FB2A69C3B4BE5F7D3@AGEXM03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
Message-ID: <CAH+Met9hhnHnWbm61u1TOJyyJ_GPuH34D9eT3Rjkm-rjtX2mbA@mail.gmail.com>

In 2010 and later you can use data macros on the tables themselves  stamp
each record with the user name and date a record was added or updated. I
include a user table and a routine to make sure the user is in that user
table.

In 2007 you're still stuck with workgroup security.

Charlotte Foust
(916) 206-4336
On Jan 29, 2016 10:59 AM, "FW Salato Center" <Salato at ky.gov> wrote:

>
> https://support.office.com/en-ie/article/Encrypt-a-database-by-using-a-database-password-fe1cc5fe-f9a5-4784-b090-fdb2673457ab#bm2
>
> I need to password protect an Access 2007 split database, which will have
> a handful of people accessing it regularly. I don't need serious protection
> as I'm not worried about someone stealing info. It'll be on a server with
> company access and I just need to stop agency-wide employees from
> accidentally opening it and doing damage. I'll have regular backups and
> nothing's confidential. I'm just trying to avoid unintentional access.
>
> This seems good enough to me.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Susan H.
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From jwcolby at gmail.com  Sun Jan 31 18:40:01 2016
From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John Colby)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 19:40:01 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] Bill Gates's Desert Island playlist - BBC News
Message-ID: <56AEA961.70800@Gmail.com>

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35442969

-- 
John W. Colby