From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Aug  1 00:00:11 2018
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 23:00:11 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>
Message-ID: <1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>

Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient. 

Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as it does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.

Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Hi Listers,

 

A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP leaves
the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the RDS
servers.

 

Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged off?

 

Regards

David Emerson
Dalyn Software Ltd
Wellington, New Zealand

 

 

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From bensonforums at gmail.com  Wed Aug  1 01:35:08 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 02:35:08 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>
	<1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>

Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just to
get *reasonable* robustness?

This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.

Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?

Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL Server
or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
asking for trouble.

In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every control
on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No message
to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time of
forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't display a
"Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the system
awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer, with a
label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its preset
interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
data isn't saved, too bad.

This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
>
> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as it
> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
>
> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
>
> Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
>
> Hi Listers,
>
>
>
> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
> leaves
> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the RDS
> servers.
>
>
>
> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged off?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> David Emerson
> Dalyn Software Ltd
> Wellington, New Zealand
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From charlotte.foust at gmail.com  Wed Aug  1 08:26:16 2018
From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 06:26:16 -0700
Subject: [AccessD] Fwd: Backend Database corruption using VPN access
In-Reply-To: <5B605CB2.27621.2A411C9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <mailman.961.1532877675.10896.accessd@databaseadvisors.com>
	<015e01d428c3$933ae030$b9b0a090$@verizon.net>
	<5B605AD9.17989.29CD90D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<5B605CB2.27621.2A411C9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <CAH+Met-hggvYJpLrb7cGoxaVW0JaBr+c7EqFpy0BOWFuBT3m4Q@mail.gmail.com>

J Street has some great tools, and they do good work.  I know the founder,
who is very helpful and a really funny guy as well.

Charlotte Foust
(916) 206-4336

On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 5:57 AM, Stuart McLachlan <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg>
wrote:

> Just had a look at their https://www.jstreettech.com/web-v-desktop.aspx
>
> Wish you had posted this yesterday.  I just spent two hours this afternoon
> discussing a
> project where some people wanted to put the  complete Corporate
> Information System for a
> professional institution on a remote web server because they want members
> to be able to
> access a small subset of the data online.  :(
>
> They initially asserted that a CMS (probably Joomla) could do everything
> that the corporate
> MIS needed!
>
>
>
> On 31 Jul 2018 at 22:49, Stuart McLachlan wrote:
>
> > What a great website.  I  hadn't come across that one before.  I've
> > grabbed a lot of their downloads to examine.
> >
> > I'm also going to steal some of their "What we do" etc to update my
> > Company Profile and proposal documentation  :)
> >
> > On 31 Jul 2018 at 7:42, Jim Dettman wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >   There are some tricks though, which are pointed out here:
> > >
> > > https://www.jstreettech.com/downloads.aspx
> > >
> > >  in the download "Best of both worlds", which would get you by most
> > >  likely.
> > >
> > > Jim.
> > >
> >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From BWalsh at healthinsight.org  Wed Aug  1 08:57:17 2018
From: BWalsh at healthinsight.org (Bob Walsh)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 13:57:17 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>
Message-ID: <MWHPR1301MB21096408E2D8C31249171E4ED72D0@MWHPR1301MB2109.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

http://www.peterssoftware.com

Inactive Shut Down Control Freeware for Access

From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

[Attn: This is an external email.]

Hi Listers,



A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP leaves
the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the RDS
servers.



Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged off?



Regards

David Emerson
Dalyn Software Ltd
Wellington, New Zealand





--
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com<mailto:AccessD at databaseadvisors.com>
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd<http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd>
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com<http://www.databaseadvisors.com>

________________________________
HealthInsight is a private, nonprofit, community-based organization dedicated to improving health and health care, with offices in four western states: Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon and Utah. HealthInsight also has operations in Seattle, Wash., and Glendale, Calif., supporting End-Stage Renal Disease Networks in the Western United States. The information and any materials included in this transmission may contain confidential information from HealthInsight. The information is intended for use by the person named on this transmittal. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please inform the sender and delete all copies.

From marksimms at verizon.net  Wed Aug  1 09:12:18 2018
From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 10:12:18 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Fwd:  Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1091.1533132353.10896.accessd@databaseadvisors.com>
References: <mailman.1091.1533132353.10896.accessd@databaseadvisors.com>
Message-ID: <164f5d510c3-c89-1d767@webjas-vad161.srv.aolmail.net>






But the time-out won't prevent users from closing the RDP session before exiting the Access application.


Mark Simms
marksimms at verizon.net




-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Benson <bensonforums at gmail.com>
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Wed, Aug 1, 2018 2:36 am
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just to
get *reasonable* robustness?

This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.

Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?

Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL Server
or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
asking for trouble.

In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every control
on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No message
to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time of
forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't display a
"Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the system
awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer, with a
label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its preset
interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
data isn't saved, too bad.

This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
>
> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as it
> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
>
> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
>
> Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
>
> Hi Listers,
>
>
>
> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
> leaves
> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the RDS
> servers.
>
>
>
> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged off?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> David Emerson
> Dalyn Software Ltd
> Wellington, New Zealand
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


 

From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz  Wed Aug  1 14:47:22 2018
From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 07:47:22 +1200
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR1301MB21096408E2D8C31249171E4ED72D0@MWHPR1301MB2109.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>
	<MWHPR1301MB21096408E2D8C31249171E4ED72D0@MWHPR1301MB2109.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <000901d429d0$777a09d0$666e1d70$@dalyn.co.nz>

Thanks Bob

Regards

David

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Walsh
Sent: Thursday, 2 August 2018 1:57 a.m.
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

http://www.peterssoftware.com

Inactive Shut Down Control Freeware for Access

From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
David Emerson
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

[Attn: This is an external email.]

Hi Listers,



A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP leaves
the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the RDS
servers.



Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged off?



Regards

David Emerson
Dalyn Software Ltd
Wellington, New Zealand



From jimdettman at verizon.net  Wed Aug  1 16:29:47 2018
From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 17:29:47 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Fwd: Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <164f5d510c3-c89-1d767@webjas-vad161.srv.aolmail.net>
References: <mailman.1091.1533132353.10896.accessd@databaseadvisors.com>
	<164f5d510c3-c89-1d767@webjas-vad161.srv.aolmail.net>
Message-ID: <031801d429de$c697c260$53c74720$@verizon.net>


 Make sure their profile is set to simply disconnect rather than logoff.

 The timeout just needs to be longer than your inactivity timer that causes
a shutdown.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Mark Simms
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 10:12 AM
To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: [AccessD] Fwd: Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP






But the time-out won't prevent users from closing the RDP session before
exiting the Access application.


Mark Simms
marksimms at verizon.net




-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Benson <bensonforums at gmail.com>
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Wed, Aug 1, 2018 2:36 am
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just to
get *reasonable* robustness?

This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.

Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?

Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL Server
or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
asking for trouble.

In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every control
on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No message
to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time of
forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't display a
"Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the system
awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer, with a
label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its preset
interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
data isn't saved, too bad.

This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
>
> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as it
> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
>
> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
>
> Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
>
> Hi Listers,
>
>
>
> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
> leaves
> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the RDS
> servers.
>
>
>
> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged
off?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> David Emerson
> Dalyn Software Ltd
> Wellington, New Zealand
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


 
-- 
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http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From jimdettman at verizon.net  Wed Aug  1 16:31:47 2018
From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 17:31:47 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>	<1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
	<CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <031c01d429df$0db5c890$292159b0$@verizon.net>

<< Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?>>

 It's just not easy to do.

 They did add  a passive shutdown feature, but there is no simply way to
actively kick someone off that is in the middle of something when there are
multiple instances of the database engine touching the database file.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Bill Benson
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 2:35 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just to
get *reasonable* robustness?

This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.

Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?

Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL Server
or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
asking for trouble.

In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every control
on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No message
to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time of
forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't display a
"Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the system
awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer, with a
label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its preset
interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
data isn't saved, too bad.

This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
>
> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as it
> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
>
> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
>
> Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
>
> Hi Listers,
>
>
>
> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
> leaves
> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the RDS
> servers.
>
>
>
> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged
off?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> David Emerson
> Dalyn Software Ltd
> Wellington, New Zealand
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz  Wed Aug  1 20:51:57 2018
From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 13:51:57 +1200
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <031c01d429df$0db5c890$292159b0$@verizon.net>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>	<1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>	<CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>
	<031c01d429df$0db5c890$292159b0$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <002601d42a03$65612200$30236600$@dalyn.co.nz>

My IT guy has asked this question:

The Log off policy doesn't just pull the rug out from under the
application..  it issues a 'Log off' or 'shutdown' call tot he environment.
Word, Excel etc 'hear' this and close down in an orderly manner..   I'm
hoping the Access application can be made to do this as well.....

Does anyone have an answer for this?

Regards

David Emerson
Dalyn Software Ltd
Wellington, New Zealand



-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Dettman
Sent: Thursday, 2 August 2018 9:32 a.m.
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

<< Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?>>

 It's just not easy to do.

 They did add  a passive shutdown feature, but there is no simply way to
actively kick someone off that is in the middle of something when there are
multiple instances of the database engine touching the database file.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Bill Benson
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 2:35 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just to
get *reasonable* robustness?

This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.

Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?

Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL Server
or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
asking for trouble.

In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every control
on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No message
to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time of
forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't display a
"Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the system
awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer, with a
label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its preset
interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
data isn't saved, too bad.

This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
>
> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as it
> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
>
> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
>
> Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
>
> Hi Listers,
>
>
>
> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
> leaves
> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the RDS
> servers.
>
>
>
> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged
off?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> David Emerson
> Dalyn Software Ltd
> Wellington, New Zealand
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From jimdettman at verizon.net  Thu Aug  2 06:17:08 2018
From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 07:17:08 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <002601d42a03$65612200$30236600$@dalyn.co.nz>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>	<1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>	<CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>	<031c01d429df$0db5c890$292159b0$@verizon.net>
	<002601d42a03$65612200$30236600$@dalyn.co.nz>
Message-ID: <048f01d42a52$5ab0fb60$1012f220$@verizon.net>


 It will try to close, but just like Excel and Word, if anything stops that
(like being in the middle of an edit), then the app will be forced to close
and not shutdown gracefully.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
David Emerson
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:52 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

My IT guy has asked this question:

The Log off policy doesn't just pull the rug out from under the
application..  it issues a 'Log off' or 'shutdown' call tot he environment.
Word, Excel etc 'hear' this and close down in an orderly manner..   I'm
hoping the Access application can be made to do this as well.....

Does anyone have an answer for this?

Regards

David Emerson
Dalyn Software Ltd
Wellington, New Zealand



-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Dettman
Sent: Thursday, 2 August 2018 9:32 a.m.
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

<< Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?>>

 It's just not easy to do.

 They did add  a passive shutdown feature, but there is no simply way to
actively kick someone off that is in the middle of something when there are
multiple instances of the database engine touching the database file.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Bill Benson
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 2:35 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just to
get *reasonable* robustness?

This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.

Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?

Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL Server
or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
asking for trouble.

In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every control
on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No message
to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time of
forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't display a
"Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the system
awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer, with a
label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its preset
interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
data isn't saved, too bad.

This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
>
> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as it
> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
>
> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
>
> Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
>
> Hi Listers,
>
>
>
> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
> leaves
> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the RDS
> servers.
>
>
>
> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged
off?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> David Emerson
> Dalyn Software Ltd
> Wellington, New Zealand
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


-- 
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AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From marksimms at verizon.net  Thu Aug  2 08:17:44 2018
From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 09:17:44 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <048f01d42a52$5ab0fb60$1012f220$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <164fac972dd-c91-1013a@webjas-vad040.srv.aolmail.net>

Guys - 
thanks for the excellent feedback on this topic.
If the RDP session duration is set to infinity (no time-out), will this alleviate the problem ?





Mark Simms
marksimms at verizon.net




-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Dettman <jimdettman at verizon.net>
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Thu, Aug 2, 2018 7:18 am
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP


 It will try to close, but just like Excel and Word, if anything stops that
(like being in the middle of an edit), then the app will be forced to close
and not shutdown gracefully.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
David Emerson
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:52 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

My IT guy has asked this question:

The Log off policy doesn't just pull the rug out from under the
application..  it issues a 'Log off' or 'shutdown' call tot he environment.
Word, Excel etc 'hear' this and close down in an orderly manner..   I'm
hoping the Access application can be made to do this as well.....

Does anyone have an answer for this?

Regards

David Emerson
Dalyn Software Ltd
Wellington, New Zealand



-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Dettman
Sent: Thursday, 2 August 2018 9:32 a.m.
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

<< Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?>>

 It's just not easy to do.

 They did add  a passive shutdown feature, but there is no simply way to
actively kick someone off that is in the middle of something when there are
multiple instances of the database engine touching the database file.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Bill Benson
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 2:35 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just to
get *reasonable* robustness?

This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.

Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?

Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL Server
or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
asking for trouble.

In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every control
on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No message
to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time of
forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't display a
"Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the system
awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer, with a
label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its preset
interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
data isn't saved, too bad.

This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
>
> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as it
> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
>
> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
>
> Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
>
> Hi Listers,
>
>
>
> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
> leaves
> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the RDS
> servers.
>
>
>
> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged
off?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> David Emerson
> Dalyn Software Ltd
> Wellington, New Zealand
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz  Thu Aug  2 14:52:02 2018
From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 07:52:02 +1200
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <048f01d42a52$5ab0fb60$1012f220$@verizon.net>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>	<1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>	<CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>	<031c01d429df$0db5c890$292159b0$@verizon.net>	<002601d42a03$65612200$30236600$@dalyn.co.nz>
	<048f01d42a52$5ab0fb60$1012f220$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <000f01d42a9a$4841d0b0$d8c57210$@dalyn.co.nz>

Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Dettman
Sent: Thursday, 2 August 2018 11:17 p.m.
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP


 It will try to close, but just like Excel and Word, if anything stops that
(like being in the middle of an edit), then the app will be forced to close
and not shutdown gracefully.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
David Emerson
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:52 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

My IT guy has asked this question:

The Log off policy doesn't just pull the rug out from under the
application..  it issues a 'Log off' or 'shutdown' call tot he environment.
Word, Excel etc 'hear' this and close down in an orderly manner..   I'm
hoping the Access application can be made to do this as well.....

Does anyone have an answer for this?

Regards

David Emerson
Dalyn Software Ltd
Wellington, New Zealand



-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Dettman
Sent: Thursday, 2 August 2018 9:32 a.m.
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

<< Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?>>

 It's just not easy to do.

 They did add  a passive shutdown feature, but there is no simply way to
actively kick someone off that is in the middle of something when there are
multiple instances of the database engine touching the database file.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Bill Benson
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 2:35 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just to
get *reasonable* robustness?

This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.

Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?

Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL Server
or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
asking for trouble.

In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every control
on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No message
to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time of
forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't display a
"Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the system
awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer, with a
label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its preset
interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
data isn't saved, too bad.

This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
>
> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as it
> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
>
> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
>
> Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
>
> Hi Listers,
>
>
>
> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
> leaves
> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the RDS
> servers.
>
>
>
> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged
off?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> David Emerson
> Dalyn Software Ltd
> Wellington, New Zealand



From jimdettman at verizon.net  Thu Aug  2 15:08:38 2018
From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 16:08:38 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <164fac972dd-c91-1013a@webjas-vad040.srv.aolmail.net>
References: <048f01d42a52$5ab0fb60$1012f220$@verizon.net>
	<164fac972dd-c91-1013a@webjas-vad040.srv.aolmail.net>
Message-ID: <06b701d42a9c$9ac0fa30$d042ee90$@verizon.net>


 Yes.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Mark Simms
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2018 9:18 AM
To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Guys - 
thanks for the excellent feedback on this topic.
If the RDP session duration is set to infinity (no time-out), will this
alleviate the problem ?





Mark Simms
marksimms at verizon.net




-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Dettman <jimdettman at verizon.net>
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Thu, Aug 2, 2018 7:18 am
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP


 It will try to close, but just like Excel and Word, if anything stops that
(like being in the middle of an edit), then the app will be forced to close
and not shutdown gracefully.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
David Emerson
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:52 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

My IT guy has asked this question:

The Log off policy doesn't just pull the rug out from under the
application..  it issues a 'Log off' or 'shutdown' call tot he environment.
Word, Excel etc 'hear' this and close down in an orderly manner..   I'm
hoping the Access application can be made to do this as well.....

Does anyone have an answer for this?

Regards

David Emerson
Dalyn Software Ltd
Wellington, New Zealand



-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Dettman
Sent: Thursday, 2 August 2018 9:32 a.m.
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

<< Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?>>

 It's just not easy to do.

 They did add  a passive shutdown feature, but there is no simply way to
actively kick someone off that is in the middle of something when there are
multiple instances of the database engine touching the database file.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Bill Benson
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 2:35 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just to
get *reasonable* robustness?

This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.

Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?

Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL Server
or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
asking for trouble.

In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every control
on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No message
to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time of
forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't display a
"Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the system
awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer, with a
label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its preset
interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
data isn't saved, too bad.

This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
>
> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as it
> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
>
> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
>
> Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
>
> Hi Listers,
>
>
>
> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
> leaves
> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the RDS
> servers.
>
>
>
> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged
off?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> David Emerson
> Dalyn Software Ltd
> Wellington, New Zealand
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
-- 
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From jbartow at winhaven.net  Thu Aug  2 16:08:51 2018
From: jbartow at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 21:08:51 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <048f01d42a52$5ab0fb60$1012f220$@verizon.net>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>
	<1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
	<CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>
	<031c01d429df$0db5c890$292159b0$@verizon.net>
	<002601d42a03$65612200$30236600$@dalyn.co.nz>
	<048f01d42a52$5ab0fb60$1012f220$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <DM5PR1101MB220154DE68B50682FEC52FFCD82C0@DM5PR1101MB2201.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

The problem with the logoff having to force it to close isn't so much the local access processes as the connectivity and cleaning up the data stream and BE locks. Forcing it to close causes data verification and backend problems.

You may ask your IT guy if he can add a "logoff Script" for each account to help alleviate that problem. Have the logoff script check on the process and if it is being used close it gently - i.e. pop up a message and give it some time. The task scheduler can do this as of Windows Vista. 

The Task Scheduler has an XML format that describes scheduled tasks, and schtasks.exe has an option to import tasks from an XML file.

To create a logoff script, create an XML file that describes the task you want to create. Make sure to use a trigger of "On disconnect from a user session" and select the log off from "any user" (which requires elevated privileges) and "connection from local computer." Set up all desired logoff actions (such as your logoff scripts) as task actions.

Alternatively, you can set up your task once using the GUI tool, then you can right-click the task where it appears in the task list and select "Export." You will get a save dialog that will allow you to save the task in XML format.

Then script the setup of the task with the following command:
schtasks /create /tn "Task Name Here" /XML "path to xml file here" /ru domain\username /rp "password"

HTH
John B

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of Jim Dettman
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2018 6:17 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP


 It will try to close, but just like Excel and Word, if anything stops that (like being in the middle of an edit), then the app will be forced to close and not shutdown gracefully.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:52 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

My IT guy has asked this question:

The Log off policy doesn't just pull the rug out from under the application..  it issues a 'Log off' or 'shutdown' call tot he environment.
Word, Excel etc 'hear' this and close down in an orderly manner..   I'm
hoping the Access application can be made to do this as well.....

Does anyone have an answer for this?

Regards

David Emerson
Dalyn Software Ltd
Wellington, New Zealand



-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman
Sent: Thursday, 2 August 2018 9:32 a.m.
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

<< Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus years despite many requests for a fix?>>

 It's just not easy to do.

 They did add  a passive shutdown feature, but there is no simply way to actively kick someone off that is in the middle of something when there are multiple instances of the database engine touching the database file.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Benson
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 2:35 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just to get *reasonable* robustness?

This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.

Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus years despite many requests for a fix?

Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL Server or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just asking for trouble.

In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every control on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No message to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time of forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't display a "Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the system awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer, with a label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its preset interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their data isn't saved, too bad.

This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
>
> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as 
> it does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
>
> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire 
> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
>
> Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" < 
> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
>
> Hi Listers,
>
>
>
> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP 
> leaves the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged 
> off the RDS servers.
>
>
>
> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged
off?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> David Emerson
> Dalyn Software Ltd
> Wellington, New Zealand
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> --
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> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
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From bensonforums at gmail.com  Thu Aug  2 16:16:32 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 17:16:32 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Why Cannot I select Top N in this query
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_0-1zGeL6ooZtF2-Xo_My+oEb_1i--eRRjHC_svhq5ybg@mail.gmail.com>

Simple task:  Northwind database (a really old one, data from 1998).

The query I wrote to tally gross sales looked like this:

Select Cus.CompanyName, Sum(Det.Quantity * det.UnitPrice) as Sales

from Customers cus
join Orders Ord on Cus.CustomerID = ord.CustomerID
join dbo.[Order Details] Det on Det.OrderID = ord.OrderID

group by  Cus.CompanyName
Order by Sales Desc


SQL SERVER will not allow me to select the Top N rows from this.

Select Top 5 Cus.CompanyName, Sales
From

(
Select Cus.CompanyName, Sum(Det.Quantity * det.UnitPrice) as Sales

from Customers cus
join Orders Ord on Cus.CustomerID = ord.CustomerID
join dbo.[Order Details] Det on Det.OrderID = ord.OrderID

group by  Cus.CompanyName
Order by Sales Desc
)

Someone else rewrote my entire query as follows, which works - but I want
to know why the former method does not work.

Select TOP 5(Cus.CompanyName) CompanyName, Sum(Det.Quantity *
det.UnitPrice) as Sales

from Customers cus join Orders Ord on Cus.CustomerID = ord.CustomerID join
dbo.[Order Details] Det on Det.OrderID = ord.OrderID

group by
Cus.CompanyName
Order by Sales Desc


The reason I wanted it my way was so that I could reuse the original
subquery as a separate runable block of code without the Top N interfering.

From paul.hartland at googlemail.com  Thu Aug  2 16:34:00 2018
From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 22:34:00 +0100
Subject: [AccessD] Why Cannot I select Top N in this query
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_0-1zGeL6ooZtF2-Xo_My+oEb_1i--eRRjHC_svhq5ybg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJLzs_0-1zGeL6ooZtF2-Xo_My+oEb_1i--eRRjHC_svhq5ybg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALGJE97Mn5MBvJ-uq7sY9U4gJqLExqodEi13UUoxYu9gqyGgGA@mail.gmail.com>

Try the below, I think you need to remove the order by from the sub query &
put it outside the brackets & name the sub query, see below
Select Top 5 mysub.CompanyName, Sales
From

(
Select Cus.CompanyName, Sum(Det.Quantity * det.UnitPrice) as Sales

from Customers cus
join Orders Ord on Cus.CustomerID = ord.CustomerID
join dbo.[Order Details] Det on Det.OrderID = ord.OrderID

group by  Cus.CompanyName

) as mysub
Order by mysub.Sales Desc

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018, 22:17 Bill Benson, <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:

> Simple task:  Northwind database (a really old one, data from 1998).
>
> The query I wrote to tally gross sales looked like this:
>
> Select Cus.CompanyName, Sum(Det.Quantity * det.UnitPrice) as Sales
>
> from Customers cus
> join Orders Ord on Cus.CustomerID = ord.CustomerID
> join dbo.[Order Details] Det on Det.OrderID = ord.OrderID
>
> group by  Cus.CompanyName
> Order by Sales Desc
>
>
> SQL SERVER will not allow me to select the Top N rows from this.
>
> Select Top 5 Cus.CompanyName, Sales
> From
>
> (
> Select Cus.CompanyName, Sum(Det.Quantity * det.UnitPrice) as Sales
>
> from Customers cus
> join Orders Ord on Cus.CustomerID = ord.CustomerID
> join dbo.[Order Details] Det on Det.OrderID = ord.OrderID
>
> group by  Cus.CompanyName
> Order by Sales Desc
> )
>
> Someone else rewrote my entire query as follows, which works - but I want
> to know why the former method does not work.
>
> Select TOP 5(Cus.CompanyName) CompanyName, Sum(Det.Quantity *
> det.UnitPrice) as Sales
>
> from Customers cus join Orders Ord on Cus.CustomerID = ord.CustomerID join
> dbo.[Order Details] Det on Det.OrderID = ord.OrderID
>
> group by
> Cus.CompanyName
> Order by Sales Desc
>
>
> The reason I wanted it my way was so that I could reuse the original
> subquery as a separate runable block of code without the Top N interfering.
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From bensonforums at gmail.com  Thu Aug  2 19:19:57 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 20:19:57 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Why Cannot I select Top N in this query
In-Reply-To: <CALGJE97Mn5MBvJ-uq7sY9U4gJqLExqodEi13UUoxYu9gqyGgGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJLzs_0-1zGeL6ooZtF2-Xo_My+oEb_1i--eRRjHC_svhq5ybg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE97Mn5MBvJ-uq7sY9U4gJqLExqodEi13UUoxYu9gqyGgGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_3zuj6JHLmcOaGc7ZhvH6YGMfWiGwQfVgJ84bMHDVKUSQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Paul. So what I am learning from this is that the Order By has to be
outside the subquery. Thing that surprises me about this is that, until the
ordering is done, I don't know how SQL Server knows what I want the "Top 5"
to be. In the query as you rewrote it, if you process the subquery on its
own, you get gross sales in whatever random order SQL decides to run the
query. Then, if you include

Select Top 5  MySub.CompanyName, Sales
From
( .
  .
  .
) as MySub without the Order By clause, you get the first 5 rows,
irrespective of size of Sales.

I don't understand how putting ORDER BY  Sales Desc underneath all of it,
acts to CHANGE the rows that got included in the Top 5. It's as if SQL
Server has changed the subquery's results, not simply reordered them.


 Select Top 5 MySub.CompanyName, Sales
From

(
Select Cus.CompanyName, Sum(Det.Quantity * det.UnitPrice) as Sales

from Customers cus
join Orders Ord on Cus.CustomerID = ord.CustomerID
join dbo.[Order Details] Det on Det.OrderID = ord.OrderID

group by  Cus.CompanyName
) As MySub
Order by Sales Desc

From paul.hartland at googlemail.com  Thu Aug  2 19:31:38 2018
From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 01:31:38 +0100
Subject: [AccessD] Why Cannot I select Top N in this query
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_3zuj6JHLmcOaGc7ZhvH6YGMfWiGwQfVgJ84bMHDVKUSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJLzs_0-1zGeL6ooZtF2-Xo_My+oEb_1i--eRRjHC_svhq5ybg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE97Mn5MBvJ-uq7sY9U4gJqLExqodEi13UUoxYu9gqyGgGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3zuj6JHLmcOaGc7ZhvH6YGMfWiGwQfVgJ84bMHDVKUSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALGJE96aFGwqiExG+1T=HkYnVkobEUv2WCh68BGYE-cCR566Yw@mail.gmail.com>

Just think of the sub query as a table, so in essence your saying

Select top 5 a.companyname, a.sales
>From yoursubquery as a
Order by a.sales



On Fri, 3 Aug 2018, 01:20 Bill Benson, <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Paul. So what I am learning from this is that the Order By has to be
> outside the subquery. Thing that surprises me about this is that, until the
> ordering is done, I don't know how SQL Server knows what I want the "Top 5"
> to be. In the query as you rewrote it, if you process the subquery on its
> own, you get gross sales in whatever random order SQL decides to run the
> query. Then, if you include
>
> Select Top 5  MySub.CompanyName, Sales
> From
> ( .
>   .
>   .
> ) as MySub without the Order By clause, you get the first 5 rows,
> irrespective of size of Sales.
>
> I don't understand how putting ORDER BY  Sales Desc underneath all of it,
> acts to CHANGE the rows that got included in the Top 5. It's as if SQL
> Server has changed the subquery's results, not simply reordered them.
>
>
>  Select Top 5 MySub.CompanyName, Sales
> From
>
> (
> Select Cus.CompanyName, Sum(Det.Quantity * det.UnitPrice) as Sales
>
> from Customers cus
> join Orders Ord on Cus.CustomerID = ord.CustomerID
> join dbo.[Order Details] Det on Det.OrderID = ord.OrderID
>
> group by  Cus.CompanyName
> ) As MySub
> Order by Sales Desc
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From bensonforums at gmail.com  Thu Aug  2 19:37:59 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 20:37:59 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Why Cannot I select Top N in this query
In-Reply-To: <CALGJE96aFGwqiExG+1T=HkYnVkobEUv2WCh68BGYE-cCR566Yw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJLzs_0-1zGeL6ooZtF2-Xo_My+oEb_1i--eRRjHC_svhq5ybg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE97Mn5MBvJ-uq7sY9U4gJqLExqodEi13UUoxYu9gqyGgGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3zuj6JHLmcOaGc7ZhvH6YGMfWiGwQfVgJ84bMHDVKUSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96aFGwqiExG+1T=HkYnVkobEUv2WCh68BGYE-cCR566Yw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_0QT_Atcfg9upci_E0BtyVE0bJTZKf8+rCGE8ees3AFAw@mail.gmail.com>

OK, that helps, thanks Paul

On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:31 PM, Paul Hartland via AccessD <
accessd at databaseadvisors.com> wrote:

> Just think of the sub query as a table, so in essence your saying
>
> Select top 5 a.companyname, a.sales
> From yoursubquery as a
> Order by a.sales
>
>
>
> On Fri, 3 Aug 2018, 01:20 Bill Benson, <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Paul. So what I am learning from this is that the Order By has to
> be
> > outside the subquery. Thing that surprises me about this is that, until
> the
> > ordering is done, I don't know how SQL Server knows what I want the "Top
> 5"
> > to be. In the query as you rewrote it, if you process the subquery on its
> > own, you get gross sales in whatever random order SQL decides to run the
> > query. Then, if you include
> >
> > Select Top 5  MySub.CompanyName, Sales
> > From
> > ( .
> >   .
> >   .
> > ) as MySub without the Order By clause, you get the first 5 rows,
> > irrespective of size of Sales.
> >
> > I don't understand how putting ORDER BY  Sales Desc underneath all of it,
> > acts to CHANGE the rows that got included in the Top 5. It's as if SQL
> > Server has changed the subquery's results, not simply reordered them.
> >
> >
> >  Select Top 5 MySub.CompanyName, Sales
> > From
> >
> > (
> > Select Cus.CompanyName, Sum(Det.Quantity * det.UnitPrice) as Sales
> >
> > from Customers cus
> > join Orders Ord on Cus.CustomerID = ord.CustomerID
> > join dbo.[Order Details] Det on Det.OrderID = ord.OrderID
> >
> > group by  Cus.CompanyName
> > ) As MySub
> > Order by Sales Desc
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From paul.hartland at googlemail.com  Thu Aug  2 19:44:21 2018
From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 01:44:21 +0100
Subject: [AccessD] Why Cannot I select Top N in this query
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_0QT_Atcfg9upci_E0BtyVE0bJTZKf8+rCGE8ees3AFAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJLzs_0-1zGeL6ooZtF2-Xo_My+oEb_1i--eRRjHC_svhq5ybg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE97Mn5MBvJ-uq7sY9U4gJqLExqodEi13UUoxYu9gqyGgGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3zuj6JHLmcOaGc7ZhvH6YGMfWiGwQfVgJ84bMHDVKUSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96aFGwqiExG+1T=HkYnVkobEUv2WCh68BGYE-cCR566Yw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0QT_Atcfg9upci_E0BtyVE0bJTZKf8+rCGE8ees3AFAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALGJE96PEHPtqaG1ZwCLg2U2VwpFUijyoXzEUH=x6WN5jQvy-g@mail.gmail.com>

No worries, glad to help every now and again as I dont get much chance to &
this list is worth its weight in gold

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018, 01:39 Bill Benson, <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:

> OK, that helps, thanks Paul
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:31 PM, Paul Hartland via AccessD <
> accessd at databaseadvisors.com> wrote:
>
> > Just think of the sub query as a table, so in essence your saying
> >
> > Select top 5 a.companyname, a.sales
> > From yoursubquery as a
> > Order by a.sales
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 3 Aug 2018, 01:20 Bill Benson, <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Paul. So what I am learning from this is that the Order By has
> to
> > be
> > > outside the subquery. Thing that surprises me about this is that, until
> > the
> > > ordering is done, I don't know how SQL Server knows what I want the
> "Top
> > 5"
> > > to be. In the query as you rewrote it, if you process the subquery on
> its
> > > own, you get gross sales in whatever random order SQL decides to run
> the
> > > query. Then, if you include
> > >
> > > Select Top 5  MySub.CompanyName, Sales
> > > From
> > > ( .
> > >   .
> > >   .
> > > ) as MySub without the Order By clause, you get the first 5 rows,
> > > irrespective of size of Sales.
> > >
> > > I don't understand how putting ORDER BY  Sales Desc underneath all of
> it,
> > > acts to CHANGE the rows that got included in the Top 5. It's as if SQL
> > > Server has changed the subquery's results, not simply reordered them.
> > >
> > >
> > >  Select Top 5 MySub.CompanyName, Sales
> > > From
> > >
> > > (
> > > Select Cus.CompanyName, Sum(Det.Quantity * det.UnitPrice) as Sales
> > >
> > > from Customers cus
> > > join Orders Ord on Cus.CustomerID = ord.CustomerID
> > > join dbo.[Order Details] Det on Det.OrderID = ord.OrderID
> > >
> > > group by  Cus.CompanyName
> > > ) As MySub
> > > Order by Sales Desc
> > > --
> > > AccessD mailing list
> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz  Thu Aug  2 19:46:38 2018
From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 12:46:38 +1200
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR1101MB220154DE68B50682FEC52FFCD82C0@DM5PR1101MB2201.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>	<1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>	<CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>	<031c01d429df$0db5c890$292159b0$@verizon.net>	<002601d42a03$65612200$30236600$@dalyn.co.nz>	<048f01d42a52$5ab0fb60$1012f220$@verizon.net>
	<DM5PR1101MB220154DE68B50682FEC52FFCD82C0@DM5PR1101MB2201.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <004e01d42ac3$702be060$5083a120$@dalyn.co.nz>

Thanks John, have passed this on.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
John Bartow
Sent: Friday, 3 August 2018 9:09 a.m.
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

The problem with the logoff having to force it to close isn't so much the
local access processes as the connectivity and cleaning up the data stream
and BE locks. Forcing it to close causes data verification and backend
problems.

You may ask your IT guy if he can add a "logoff Script" for each account to
help alleviate that problem. Have the logoff script check on the process and
if it is being used close it gently - i.e. pop up a message and give it some
time. The task scheduler can do this as of Windows Vista. 

The Task Scheduler has an XML format that describes scheduled tasks, and
schtasks.exe has an option to import tasks from an XML file.

To create a logoff script, create an XML file that describes the task you
want to create. Make sure to use a trigger of "On disconnect from a user
session" and select the log off from "any user" (which requires elevated
privileges) and "connection from local computer." Set up all desired logoff
actions (such as your logoff scripts) as task actions.

Alternatively, you can set up your task once using the GUI tool, then you
can right-click the task where it appears in the task list and select
"Export." You will get a save dialog that will allow you to save the task in
XML format.

Then script the setup of the task with the following command:
schtasks /create /tn "Task Name Here" /XML "path to xml file here" /ru
domain\username /rp "password"

HTH
John B

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of Jim
Dettman
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2018 6:17 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP


 It will try to close, but just like Excel and Word, if anything stops that
(like being in the middle of an edit), then the app will be forced to close
and not shutdown gracefully.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
David Emerson
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:52 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

My IT guy has asked this question:

The Log off policy doesn't just pull the rug out from under the
application..  it issues a 'Log off' or 'shutdown' call tot he environment.
Word, Excel etc 'hear' this and close down in an orderly manner..   I'm
hoping the Access application can be made to do this as well.....

Does anyone have an answer for this?

Regards

David Emerson
Dalyn Software Ltd
Wellington, New Zealand



-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Dettman
Sent: Thursday, 2 August 2018 9:32 a.m.
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

<< Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?>>

 It's just not easy to do.

 They did add  a passive shutdown feature, but there is no simply way to
actively kick someone off that is in the middle of something when there are
multiple instances of the database engine touching the database file.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Bill Benson
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 2:35 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just to
get *reasonable* robustness?

This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less than
perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff solutions,
which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.

Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?

Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL Server or
Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just asking
for trouble.

In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every control
on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No message
to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time of
forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't display a
"Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the system
awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer, with a
label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its preset
interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
data isn't saved, too bad.

This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
>
> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as 
> it does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
>
> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire 
> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
>
> Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" < 
> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
>
> Hi Listers,
>
>
>
> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP 
> leaves the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged 
> off the RDS servers.
>
>
>
> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged
off?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> David Emerson
> Dalyn Software Ltd
> Wellington, New Zealand
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
--
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

--
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


-- 
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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From bensonforums at gmail.com  Thu Aug  2 20:23:40 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 21:23:40 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Why Cannot I select Top N in this query
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_3Yd3vsjQLmJ2Skn8vE8zJOtm0PqAhmCraP7N0wvBJvvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJLzs_0-1zGeL6ooZtF2-Xo_My+oEb_1i--eRRjHC_svhq5ybg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE97Mn5MBvJ-uq7sY9U4gJqLExqodEi13UUoxYu9gqyGgGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3zuj6JHLmcOaGc7ZhvH6YGMfWiGwQfVgJ84bMHDVKUSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96aFGwqiExG+1T=HkYnVkobEUv2WCh68BGYE-cCR566Yw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0QT_Atcfg9upci_E0BtyVE0bJTZKf8+rCGE8ees3AFAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96PEHPtqaG1ZwCLg2U2VwpFUijyoXzEUH=x6WN5jQvy-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3Yd3vsjQLmJ2Skn8vE8zJOtm0PqAhmCraP7N0wvBJvvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_0ha6jDqCZg1nbhHXa4oovsK85B0JdAsgE0kDO6ammA0g@mail.gmail.com>

 I've decided that my colleague's approach (which does not rely on a
subquery) is the most efficient. I can't really think of a reason why the
subquery needs to hang around in my SQL.

My colleague had written

Select TOP 5 CompanyName, Sum(Quantity * UnitPrice) as Sales

FROM Customers

       JOIN Orders

              ON Customers.CustomerID = Orders.CustomerID

       JOIN [Order Details]

              ON [Order Details].OrderID = Orders.OrderID

GROUP BY CompanyName

ORDER BY Sales Desc


Which, on further reflection, feels more efficient than :

Select Top 5 CompanyName, Sales

FROM (

       SELECT CompanyName, Sum(Quantity*UnitPrice) as Sales

       FROM Customers

              JOIN Orders

                     ON Customers.CustomerID = Orders.CustomerID

              JOIN [Order Details]

                     ON [Order Details].OrderID = Orders.OrderID



       GROUP BY CompanyName

       ) As CustomerSales

ORDER BY Sales Desc

From paul.hartland at googlemail.com  Thu Aug  2 20:36:26 2018
From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 02:36:26 +0100
Subject: [AccessD] Why Cannot I select Top N in this query
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_0ha6jDqCZg1nbhHXa4oovsK85B0JdAsgE0kDO6ammA0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJLzs_0-1zGeL6ooZtF2-Xo_My+oEb_1i--eRRjHC_svhq5ybg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE97Mn5MBvJ-uq7sY9U4gJqLExqodEi13UUoxYu9gqyGgGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3zuj6JHLmcOaGc7ZhvH6YGMfWiGwQfVgJ84bMHDVKUSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96aFGwqiExG+1T=HkYnVkobEUv2WCh68BGYE-cCR566Yw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0QT_Atcfg9upci_E0BtyVE0bJTZKf8+rCGE8ees3AFAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96PEHPtqaG1ZwCLg2U2VwpFUijyoXzEUH=x6WN5jQvy-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3Yd3vsjQLmJ2Skn8vE8zJOtm0PqAhmCraP7N0wvBJvvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0ha6jDqCZg1nbhHXa4oovsK85B0JdAsgE0kDO6ammA0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALGJE95QSukpPBcyNsDHbRPgc_Es72XegRSAwYwzZY0z+ydsnw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes there's no reason not to use that approach, I was just showing what
needed to be done to get your query to work, you would probably find your
colleagues query being more efficient if you viewed and compared the query
plans on both of them.

Paul

On 3 August 2018 at 02:23, Bill Benson <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:

>  I've decided that my colleague's approach (which does not rely on a
> subquery) is the most efficient. I can't really think of a reason why the
> subquery needs to hang around in my SQL.
>
> My colleague had written
>
> Select TOP 5 CompanyName, Sum(Quantity * UnitPrice) as Sales
>
> FROM Customers
>
>        JOIN Orders
>
>               ON Customers.CustomerID = Orders.CustomerID
>
>        JOIN [Order Details]
>
>               ON [Order Details].OrderID = Orders.OrderID
>
> GROUP BY CompanyName
>
> ORDER BY Sales Desc
>
>
> Which, on further reflection, feels more efficient than :
>
> Select Top 5 CompanyName, Sales
>
> FROM (
>
>        SELECT CompanyName, Sum(Quantity*UnitPrice) as Sales
>
>        FROM Customers
>
>               JOIN Orders
>
>                      ON Customers.CustomerID = Orders.CustomerID
>
>               JOIN [Order Details]
>
>                      ON [Order Details].OrderID = Orders.OrderID
>
>
>
>        GROUP BY CompanyName
>
>        ) As CustomerSales
>
> ORDER BY Sales Desc
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



-- 
Paul Hartland
paul.hartland at googlemail.com

From bensonforums at gmail.com  Thu Aug  2 21:17:56 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 22:17:56 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Why Cannot I select Top N in this query
In-Reply-To: <CALGJE95QSukpPBcyNsDHbRPgc_Es72XegRSAwYwzZY0z+ydsnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJLzs_0-1zGeL6ooZtF2-Xo_My+oEb_1i--eRRjHC_svhq5ybg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE97Mn5MBvJ-uq7sY9U4gJqLExqodEi13UUoxYu9gqyGgGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3zuj6JHLmcOaGc7ZhvH6YGMfWiGwQfVgJ84bMHDVKUSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96aFGwqiExG+1T=HkYnVkobEUv2WCh68BGYE-cCR566Yw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0QT_Atcfg9upci_E0BtyVE0bJTZKf8+rCGE8ees3AFAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96PEHPtqaG1ZwCLg2U2VwpFUijyoXzEUH=x6WN5jQvy-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3Yd3vsjQLmJ2Skn8vE8zJOtm0PqAhmCraP7N0wvBJvvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0ha6jDqCZg1nbhHXa4oovsK85B0JdAsgE0kDO6ammA0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE95QSukpPBcyNsDHbRPgc_Es72XegRSAwYwzZY0z+ydsnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_0-ratgPrNdEpU0e-qDYeLVJXL=TbafaQp4HD+kqsnzyA@mail.gmail.com>

Again, thank you Paul!

On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 9:36 PM, Paul Hartland via AccessD <
accessd at databaseadvisors.com> wrote:

> Yes there's no reason not to use that approach, I was just showing what
> needed to be done to get your query to work, you would probably find your
> colleagues query being more efficient if you viewed and compared the query
> plans on both of them.
>
> Paul
>
> On 3 August 2018 at 02:23, Bill Benson <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >  I've decided that my colleague's approach (which does not rely on a
> > subquery) is the most efficient. I can't really think of a reason why the
> > subquery needs to hang around in my SQL.
> >
> > My colleague had written
> >
> > Select TOP 5 CompanyName, Sum(Quantity * UnitPrice) as Sales
> >
> > FROM Customers
> >
> >        JOIN Orders
> >
> >               ON Customers.CustomerID = Orders.CustomerID
> >
> >        JOIN [Order Details]
> >
> >               ON [Order Details].OrderID = Orders.OrderID
> >
> > GROUP BY CompanyName
> >
> > ORDER BY Sales Desc
> >
> >
> > Which, on further reflection, feels more efficient than :
> >
> > Select Top 5 CompanyName, Sales
> >
> > FROM (
> >
> >        SELECT CompanyName, Sum(Quantity*UnitPrice) as Sales
> >
> >        FROM Customers
> >
> >               JOIN Orders
> >
> >                      ON Customers.CustomerID = Orders.CustomerID
> >
> >               JOIN [Order Details]
> >
> >                      ON [Order Details].OrderID = Orders.OrderID
> >
> >
> >
> >        GROUP BY CompanyName
> >
> >        ) As CustomerSales
> >
> > ORDER BY Sales Desc
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Paul Hartland
> paul.hartland at googlemail.com
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From bensonforums at gmail.com  Thu Aug  2 21:26:05 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 22:26:05 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Why Cannot I select Top N in this query
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_0-ratgPrNdEpU0e-qDYeLVJXL=TbafaQp4HD+kqsnzyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJLzs_0-1zGeL6ooZtF2-Xo_My+oEb_1i--eRRjHC_svhq5ybg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE97Mn5MBvJ-uq7sY9U4gJqLExqodEi13UUoxYu9gqyGgGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3zuj6JHLmcOaGc7ZhvH6YGMfWiGwQfVgJ84bMHDVKUSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96aFGwqiExG+1T=HkYnVkobEUv2WCh68BGYE-cCR566Yw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0QT_Atcfg9upci_E0BtyVE0bJTZKf8+rCGE8ees3AFAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96PEHPtqaG1ZwCLg2U2VwpFUijyoXzEUH=x6WN5jQvy-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3Yd3vsjQLmJ2Skn8vE8zJOtm0PqAhmCraP7N0wvBJvvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0ha6jDqCZg1nbhHXa4oovsK85B0JdAsgE0kDO6ammA0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE95QSukpPBcyNsDHbRPgc_Es72XegRSAwYwzZY0z+ydsnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0-ratgPrNdEpU0e-qDYeLVJXL=TbafaQp4HD+kqsnzyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_0T8iHB6t_W6VBKKZ8r1myLH2ieVHw1-=_HkZzRV=p0Fg@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know if SQL Server's estimate of query plan is to be believed, but
it appears that they would both be handled exactly the same at runtime.

Query Plan Image
<https://drive.google.com/open?id=1M8f3h-4hAihryx8PlAL5AiKyIlxvXdhT>

On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Bill Benson <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:

> Again, thank you Paul!
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 9:36 PM, Paul Hartland via AccessD <
> accessd at databaseadvisors.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes there's no reason not to use that approach, I was just showing what
>> needed to be done to get your query to work, you would probably find your
>> colleagues query being more efficient if you viewed and compared the query
>> plans on both of them.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On 3 August 2018 at 02:23, Bill Benson <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >  I've decided that my colleague's approach (which does not rely on a
>> > subquery) is the most efficient. I can't really think of a reason why
>> the
>> > subquery needs to hang around in my SQL.
>> >
>> > My colleague had written
>> >
>> > Select TOP 5 CompanyName, Sum(Quantity * UnitPrice) as Sales
>> >
>> > FROM Customers
>> >
>> >        JOIN Orders
>> >
>> >               ON Customers.CustomerID = Orders.CustomerID
>> >
>> >        JOIN [Order Details]
>> >
>> >               ON [Order Details].OrderID = Orders.OrderID
>> >
>> > GROUP BY CompanyName
>> >
>> > ORDER BY Sales Desc
>> >
>> >
>> > Which, on further reflection, feels more efficient than :
>> >
>> > Select Top 5 CompanyName, Sales
>> >
>> > FROM (
>> >
>> >        SELECT CompanyName, Sum(Quantity*UnitPrice) as Sales
>> >
>> >        FROM Customers
>> >
>> >               JOIN Orders
>> >
>> >                      ON Customers.CustomerID = Orders.CustomerID
>> >
>> >               JOIN [Order Details]
>> >
>> >                      ON [Order Details].OrderID = Orders.OrderID
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >        GROUP BY CompanyName
>> >
>> >        ) As CustomerSales
>> >
>> > ORDER BY Sales Desc
>> > --
>> > AccessD mailing list
>> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul Hartland
>> paul.hartland at googlemail.com
>> --
>> AccessD mailing list
>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>
>

From wrwehler at gmail.com  Thu Aug  2 21:32:34 2018
From: wrwehler at gmail.com (Ryan Wehler)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 21:32:34 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] Why Cannot I select Top N in this query
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_0T8iHB6t_W6VBKKZ8r1myLH2ieVHw1-=_HkZzRV=p0Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJLzs_0-1zGeL6ooZtF2-Xo_My+oEb_1i--eRRjHC_svhq5ybg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE97Mn5MBvJ-uq7sY9U4gJqLExqodEi13UUoxYu9gqyGgGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3zuj6JHLmcOaGc7ZhvH6YGMfWiGwQfVgJ84bMHDVKUSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96aFGwqiExG+1T=HkYnVkobEUv2WCh68BGYE-cCR566Yw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0QT_Atcfg9upci_E0BtyVE0bJTZKf8+rCGE8ees3AFAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96PEHPtqaG1ZwCLg2U2VwpFUijyoXzEUH=x6WN5jQvy-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3Yd3vsjQLmJ2Skn8vE8zJOtm0PqAhmCraP7N0wvBJvvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0ha6jDqCZg1nbhHXa4oovsK85B0JdAsgE0kDO6ammA0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE95QSukpPBcyNsDHbRPgc_Es72XegRSAwYwzZY0z+ydsnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0-ratgPrNdEpU0e-qDYeLVJXL=TbafaQp4HD+kqsnzyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0T8iHB6t_W6VBKKZ8r1myLH2ieVHw1-=_HkZzRV=p0Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2DCABB15-9C28-4A60-93E9-878F0B5F2CC5@gmail.com>

Did you happen to clear the query cache between runs? It would be interesting to see if it still comes up with the same plan. 

> On Aug 2, 2018, at 9:26 PM, Bill Benson <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't know if SQL Server's estimate of query plan is to be believed, but
> it appears that they would both be handled exactly the same at runtime.
> 
> Query Plan Image
> <https://drive.google.com/open?id=1M8f3h-4hAihryx8PlAL5AiKyIlxvXdhT>
> 
>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Bill Benson <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Again, thank you Paul!
>> 
>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 9:36 PM, Paul Hartland via AccessD <
>> accessd at databaseadvisors.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Yes there's no reason not to use that approach, I was just showing what
>>> needed to be done to get your query to work, you would probably find your
>>> colleagues query being more efficient if you viewed and compared the query
>>> plans on both of them.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>>> On 3 August 2018 at 02:23, Bill Benson <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I've decided that my colleague's approach (which does not rely on a
>>>> subquery) is the most efficient. I can't really think of a reason why
>>> the
>>>> subquery needs to hang around in my SQL.
>>>> 
>>>> My colleague had written
>>>> 
>>>> Select TOP 5 CompanyName, Sum(Quantity * UnitPrice) as Sales
>>>> 
>>>> FROM Customers
>>>> 
>>>>       JOIN Orders
>>>> 
>>>>              ON Customers.CustomerID = Orders.CustomerID
>>>> 
>>>>       JOIN [Order Details]
>>>> 
>>>>              ON [Order Details].OrderID = Orders.OrderID
>>>> 
>>>> GROUP BY CompanyName
>>>> 
>>>> ORDER BY Sales Desc
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Which, on further reflection, feels more efficient than :
>>>> 
>>>> Select Top 5 CompanyName, Sales
>>>> 
>>>> FROM (
>>>> 
>>>>       SELECT CompanyName, Sum(Quantity*UnitPrice) as Sales
>>>> 
>>>>       FROM Customers
>>>> 
>>>>              JOIN Orders
>>>> 
>>>>                     ON Customers.CustomerID = Orders.CustomerID
>>>> 
>>>>              JOIN [Order Details]
>>>> 
>>>>                     ON [Order Details].OrderID = Orders.OrderID
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>       GROUP BY CompanyName
>>>> 
>>>>       ) As CustomerSales
>>>> 
>>>> ORDER BY Sales Desc
>>>> --
>>>> AccessD mailing list
>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Paul Hartland
>>> paul.hartland at googlemail.com
>>> --
>>> AccessD mailing list
>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From bensonforums at gmail.com  Thu Aug  2 21:39:43 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 22:39:43 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Why Cannot I select Top N in this query
In-Reply-To: <2DCABB15-9C28-4A60-93E9-878F0B5F2CC5@gmail.com>
References: <CAJLzs_0-1zGeL6ooZtF2-Xo_My+oEb_1i--eRRjHC_svhq5ybg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE97Mn5MBvJ-uq7sY9U4gJqLExqodEi13UUoxYu9gqyGgGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3zuj6JHLmcOaGc7ZhvH6YGMfWiGwQfVgJ84bMHDVKUSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96aFGwqiExG+1T=HkYnVkobEUv2WCh68BGYE-cCR566Yw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0QT_Atcfg9upci_E0BtyVE0bJTZKf8+rCGE8ees3AFAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96PEHPtqaG1ZwCLg2U2VwpFUijyoXzEUH=x6WN5jQvy-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3Yd3vsjQLmJ2Skn8vE8zJOtm0PqAhmCraP7N0wvBJvvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0ha6jDqCZg1nbhHXa4oovsK85B0JdAsgE0kDO6ammA0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE95QSukpPBcyNsDHbRPgc_Es72XegRSAwYwzZY0z+ydsnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0-ratgPrNdEpU0e-qDYeLVJXL=TbafaQp4HD+kqsnzyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0T8iHB6t_W6VBKKZ8r1myLH2ieVHw1-=_HkZzRV=p0Fg@mail.gmail.com>
	<2DCABB15-9C28-4A60-93E9-878F0B5F2CC5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_3HMOamUAhWT+Xxf5KL5XATz19=njMbzZQ6hBysOZA_Eg@mail.gmail.com>

I ran this before each... and if that suffices, then yes. If not, I am in a
little over my head on this. I had Include Actual Plan option set, before
running Display Estimated Execution Plan, but that probable has no impact
on the estimate. I am using SQL Server Express as the database being
connected to, there appear to be some limitation preventing Analyze Query
in Database Tuning Advisor from working. I get this error message

TITLE: Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio
------------------------------

The argument type 'server type = Sql, server name =
USPP07-98170601\SQLEXPRESS, timeout = 30, database = northwind, protocol =
NotSpecified, workstation = , integrated security = True' cannot be
converted into parameter type
'Microsoft.SqlServer.Management.Common.SqlConnectionInfo'. (mscorlib)

------------------------------
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:

Object must implement IConvertible. (mscorlib)

------------------------------
BUTTONS:

OK
------------------------------


On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 10:32 PM, Ryan Wehler <wrwehler at gmail.com> wrote:

> Did you happen to clear the query cache between runs? It would be
> interesting to see if it still comes up with the same plan.
>
>

From bensonforums at gmail.com  Thu Aug  2 21:40:10 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 22:40:10 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Why Cannot I select Top N in this query
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_3HMOamUAhWT+Xxf5KL5XATz19=njMbzZQ6hBysOZA_Eg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJLzs_0-1zGeL6ooZtF2-Xo_My+oEb_1i--eRRjHC_svhq5ybg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE97Mn5MBvJ-uq7sY9U4gJqLExqodEi13UUoxYu9gqyGgGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3zuj6JHLmcOaGc7ZhvH6YGMfWiGwQfVgJ84bMHDVKUSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96aFGwqiExG+1T=HkYnVkobEUv2WCh68BGYE-cCR566Yw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0QT_Atcfg9upci_E0BtyVE0bJTZKf8+rCGE8ees3AFAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96PEHPtqaG1ZwCLg2U2VwpFUijyoXzEUH=x6WN5jQvy-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3Yd3vsjQLmJ2Skn8vE8zJOtm0PqAhmCraP7N0wvBJvvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0ha6jDqCZg1nbhHXa4oovsK85B0JdAsgE0kDO6ammA0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE95QSukpPBcyNsDHbRPgc_Es72XegRSAwYwzZY0z+ydsnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0-ratgPrNdEpU0e-qDYeLVJXL=TbafaQp4HD+kqsnzyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0T8iHB6t_W6VBKKZ8r1myLH2ieVHw1-=_HkZzRV=p0Fg@mail.gmail.com>
	<2DCABB15-9C28-4A60-93E9-878F0B5F2CC5@gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3HMOamUAhWT+Xxf5KL5XATz19=njMbzZQ6hBysOZA_Eg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_1c=CxrrP5yG7=y3t1nAny+B8WMwQggFMjuKLyT69KGHw@mail.gmail.com>

By "this" I meant to include


CHECKPOINT;
GO
DBCC DROPCLEANBUFFERS;
GO

From bensonforums at gmail.com  Thu Aug  2 21:51:44 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 22:51:44 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Why Cannot I select Top N in this query
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_1c=CxrrP5yG7=y3t1nAny+B8WMwQggFMjuKLyT69KGHw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJLzs_0-1zGeL6ooZtF2-Xo_My+oEb_1i--eRRjHC_svhq5ybg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE97Mn5MBvJ-uq7sY9U4gJqLExqodEi13UUoxYu9gqyGgGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3zuj6JHLmcOaGc7ZhvH6YGMfWiGwQfVgJ84bMHDVKUSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96aFGwqiExG+1T=HkYnVkobEUv2WCh68BGYE-cCR566Yw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0QT_Atcfg9upci_E0BtyVE0bJTZKf8+rCGE8ees3AFAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96PEHPtqaG1ZwCLg2U2VwpFUijyoXzEUH=x6WN5jQvy-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3Yd3vsjQLmJ2Skn8vE8zJOtm0PqAhmCraP7N0wvBJvvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0ha6jDqCZg1nbhHXa4oovsK85B0JdAsgE0kDO6ammA0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE95QSukpPBcyNsDHbRPgc_Es72XegRSAwYwzZY0z+ydsnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0-ratgPrNdEpU0e-qDYeLVJXL=TbafaQp4HD+kqsnzyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0T8iHB6t_W6VBKKZ8r1myLH2ieVHw1-=_HkZzRV=p0Fg@mail.gmail.com>
	<2DCABB15-9C28-4A60-93E9-878F0B5F2CC5@gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3HMOamUAhWT+Xxf5KL5XATz19=njMbzZQ6hBysOZA_Eg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_1c=CxrrP5yG7=y3t1nAny+B8WMwQggFMjuKLyT69KGHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_3sOqC+Ws9U5SPHVopbbJHiD6ZLC52B33i_OzYWBu322A@mail.gmail.com>

Actual Query Plan
<https://drive.google.com/open?id=1g2ulL410xFrsOufzvjAiccMad5UYfEnF> is
same.

From wrwehler at gmail.com  Thu Aug  2 22:12:38 2018
From: wrwehler at gmail.com (Ryan Wehler)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 22:12:38 -0500
Subject: [AccessD] Why Cannot I select Top N in this query
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_3sOqC+Ws9U5SPHVopbbJHiD6ZLC52B33i_OzYWBu322A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJLzs_0-1zGeL6ooZtF2-Xo_My+oEb_1i--eRRjHC_svhq5ybg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE97Mn5MBvJ-uq7sY9U4gJqLExqodEi13UUoxYu9gqyGgGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3zuj6JHLmcOaGc7ZhvH6YGMfWiGwQfVgJ84bMHDVKUSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96aFGwqiExG+1T=HkYnVkobEUv2WCh68BGYE-cCR566Yw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0QT_Atcfg9upci_E0BtyVE0bJTZKf8+rCGE8ees3AFAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96PEHPtqaG1ZwCLg2U2VwpFUijyoXzEUH=x6WN5jQvy-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3Yd3vsjQLmJ2Skn8vE8zJOtm0PqAhmCraP7N0wvBJvvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0ha6jDqCZg1nbhHXa4oovsK85B0JdAsgE0kDO6ammA0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE95QSukpPBcyNsDHbRPgc_Es72XegRSAwYwzZY0z+ydsnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0-ratgPrNdEpU0e-qDYeLVJXL=TbafaQp4HD+kqsnzyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0T8iHB6t_W6VBKKZ8r1myLH2ieVHw1-=_HkZzRV=p0Fg@mail.gmail.com>
	<2DCABB15-9C28-4A60-93E9-878F0B5F2CC5@gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3HMOamUAhWT+Xxf5KL5XATz19=njMbzZQ6hBysOZA_Eg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_1c=CxrrP5yG7=y3t1nAny+B8WMwQggFMjuKLyT69KGHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3sOqC+Ws9U5SPHVopbbJHiD6ZLC52B33i_OzYWBu322A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7F55906A-D3DC-4DD2-8DDE-7ABDE37699B9@gmail.com>

Looks good to me. SQL servers query optimizer is pretty smart I guess. 

> On Aug 2, 2018, at 9:51 PM, Bill Benson <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Actual Query Plan
> <https://drive.google.com/open?id=1g2ulL410xFrsOufzvjAiccMad5UYfEnF> is
> same.
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From paul.hartland at googlemail.com  Fri Aug  3 02:05:00 2018
From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 08:05:00 +0100
Subject: [AccessD] Why Cannot I select Top N in this query
In-Reply-To: <7F55906A-D3DC-4DD2-8DDE-7ABDE37699B9@gmail.com>
References: <CAJLzs_0-1zGeL6ooZtF2-Xo_My+oEb_1i--eRRjHC_svhq5ybg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE97Mn5MBvJ-uq7sY9U4gJqLExqodEi13UUoxYu9gqyGgGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3zuj6JHLmcOaGc7ZhvH6YGMfWiGwQfVgJ84bMHDVKUSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96aFGwqiExG+1T=HkYnVkobEUv2WCh68BGYE-cCR566Yw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0QT_Atcfg9upci_E0BtyVE0bJTZKf8+rCGE8ees3AFAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE96PEHPtqaG1ZwCLg2U2VwpFUijyoXzEUH=x6WN5jQvy-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3Yd3vsjQLmJ2Skn8vE8zJOtm0PqAhmCraP7N0wvBJvvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0ha6jDqCZg1nbhHXa4oovsK85B0JdAsgE0kDO6ammA0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALGJE95QSukpPBcyNsDHbRPgc_Es72XegRSAwYwzZY0z+ydsnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0-ratgPrNdEpU0e-qDYeLVJXL=TbafaQp4HD+kqsnzyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0T8iHB6t_W6VBKKZ8r1myLH2ieVHw1-=_HkZzRV=p0Fg@mail.gmail.com>
	<2DCABB15-9C28-4A60-93E9-878F0B5F2CC5@gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3HMOamUAhWT+Xxf5KL5XATz19=njMbzZQ6hBysOZA_Eg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_1c=CxrrP5yG7=y3t1nAny+B8WMwQggFMjuKLyT69KGHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_3sOqC+Ws9U5SPHVopbbJHiD6ZLC52B33i_OzYWBu322A@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F55906A-D3DC-4DD2-8DDE-7ABDE37699B9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALGJE97oGomn_8tABcXHRPrJZGMzbyEOd9xQh6EK38T9oHxEYA@mail.gmail.com>

I didn't think there would be much (if any) difference in those, this is a
case of that it is just down to user preference really and in most cases
there are also a few other ways that query could be written.

Paul

On 3 August 2018 at 04:12, Ryan Wehler <wrwehler at gmail.com> wrote:

> Looks good to me. SQL servers query optimizer is pretty smart I guess.
>
> > On Aug 2, 2018, at 9:51 PM, Bill Benson <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Actual Query Plan
> > <https://drive.google.com/open?id=1g2ulL410xFrsOufzvjAiccMad5UYfEnF> is
> > same.
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



-- 
Paul Hartland
paul.hartland at googlemail.com

From jwcolby at gmail.com  Sat Aug  4 09:09:09 2018
From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John Colby)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 10:09:09 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>
	<1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
	<CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06316410-7b51-56bd-cb19-792fc28c27cd@Gmail.com>

 >>In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every 
control on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a 
certain period of inactivity is reached.

LOL, can you say "class"?

On 8/1/2018 2:35 AM, Bill Benson wrote:
> Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just to
> get *reasonable* robustness?
>
> This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
> than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
> solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.
>
> Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
> years despite many requests for a fix?
>
> Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL Server
> or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
> asking for trouble.
>
> In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every control
> on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
> period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No message
> to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
> telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time of
> forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't display a
> "Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the system
> awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer, with a
> label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its preset
> interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
> data isn't saved, too bad.
>
> This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.
>
> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
>> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
>>
>> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as it
>> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
>>
>> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
>> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
>> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
>> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
>>
>> Hi Listers,
>>
>>
>>
>> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
>> leaves
>> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the RDS
>> servers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged off?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> David Emerson
>> Dalyn Software Ltd
>> Wellington, New Zealand
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AccessD mailing list
>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> --
>> AccessD mailing list
>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>

-- 
John W. Colby


From bensonforums at gmail.com  Sat Aug  4 09:32:54 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 10:32:54 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <06316410-7b51-56bd-cb19-792fc28c27cd@Gmail.com>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>
	<1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
	<CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>
	<06316410-7b51-56bd-cb19-792fc28c27cd@Gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_0WOotBxfc9-AH_W7O3-M45kKj0FB9hNcaF-Crz8tMvMg@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah that is kinda funny... you're right as usual mr colby

On Sat, Aug 4, 2018, 10:09 AM John Colby <jwcolby at gmail.com> wrote:

>  >>In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every
> control on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a
> certain period of inactivity is reached.
>
> LOL, can you say "class"?
>
> On 8/1/2018 2:35 AM, Bill Benson wrote:
> > Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just to
> > get *reasonable* robustness?
> >
> > This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
> > than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
> > solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.
> >
> > Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
> > years despite many requests for a fix?
> >
> > Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL Server
> > or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
> > asking for trouble.
> >
> > In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every
> control
> > on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
> > period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No
> message
> > to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
> > telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time of
> > forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't
> display a
> > "Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the system
> > awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer,
> with a
> > label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its preset
> > interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
> > data isn't saved, too bad.
> >
> > This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> >> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
> >>
> >> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as
> it
> >> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
> >>
> >> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
> >> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
> >> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> >> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
> >>
> >> Hi Listers,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
> >> leaves
> >> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the
> RDS
> >> servers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged
> off?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> David Emerson
> >> Dalyn Software Ltd
> >> Wellington, New Zealand
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> AccessD mailing list
> >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >> --
> >> AccessD mailing list
> >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>
>
> --
> John W. Colby
>
>

From jimdettman at verizon.net  Sat Aug  4 12:14:15 2018
From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 13:14:15 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_0WOotBxfc9-AH_W7O3-M45kKj0FB9hNcaF-Crz8tMvMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>	<1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>	<CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>	<06316410-7b51-56bd-cb19-792fc28c27cd@Gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0WOotBxfc9-AH_W7O3-M45kKj0FB9hNcaF-Crz8tMvMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0a1a01d42c16$934bd470$b9e37d50$@verizon.net>


 Thing is, it doesn't have to be hooked to every form.

 Open a hidden form in the background, set a timer there, and check for a
shutdown flag once a minute.   Also monitor screen.activeform and
screen.activecontrol to check for activity:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vba/access-vba/articles/detect-user-idle-ti
me-or-inactivity

 You can then loop through the forms collection and start closing them.

 The biggest problem however is how to handle a msgbox that is currently up.
Form add/edits you can easily un-do, but handling a popup dialog is a
problem.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Bill Benson
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 10:33 AM
To: John W. Colby
Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Yeah that is kinda funny... you're right as usual mr colby

On Sat, Aug 4, 2018, 10:09 AM John Colby <jwcolby at gmail.com> wrote:

>  >>In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every
> control on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a
> certain period of inactivity is reached.
>
> LOL, can you say "class"?
>
> On 8/1/2018 2:35 AM, Bill Benson wrote:
> > Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just
to
> > get *reasonable* robustness?
> >
> > This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
> > than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
> > solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.
> >
> > Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
> > years despite many requests for a fix?
> >
> > Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL
Server
> > or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
> > asking for trouble.
> >
> > In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every
> control
> > on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
> > period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No
> message
> > to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
> > telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time
of
> > forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't
> display a
> > "Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the
system
> > awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer,
> with a
> > label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its
preset
> > interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
> > data isn't saved, too bad.
> >
> > This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> >> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
> >>
> >> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as
> it
> >> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
> >>
> >> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
> >> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
> >> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> >> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
> >>
> >> Hi Listers,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
> >> leaves
> >> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the
> RDS
> >> servers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged
> off?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> David Emerson
> >> Dalyn Software Ltd
> >> Wellington, New Zealand
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> AccessD mailing list
> >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >> --
> >> AccessD mailing list
> >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>
>
> --
> John W. Colby
>
>
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From bensonforums at gmail.com  Sat Aug  4 18:02:55 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 19:02:55 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <0a1a01d42c16$934bd470$b9e37d50$@verizon.net>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>
	<1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
	<CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>
	<06316410-7b51-56bd-cb19-792fc28c27cd@Gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0WOotBxfc9-AH_W7O3-M45kKj0FB9hNcaF-Crz8tMvMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<0a1a01d42c16$934bd470$b9e37d50$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_3xAHLWyHz4pdOTEyaNpFUKNo3PM=aaqcZX+-8qQbUFXg@mail.gmail.com>

Which is but one reason why my preference is to design custom message boxes
using Access forms (user forms in Excel) for alerts  and  questions. Other
reasons are so I can add a checkbox on the "message box" for "Do not
ask/show again this session" and store the answers in a table or the
registry.

>>  The biggest problem however is how to handle a msgbox that is currently
up.

From accessd at shaw.ca  Sun Aug  5 13:27:51 2018
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 12:27:51 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <0a1a01d42c16$934bd470$b9e37d50$@verizon.net>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>
	<1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
	<CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>
	<06316410-7b51-56bd-cb19-792fc28c27cd@Gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0WOotBxfc9-AH_W7O3-M45kKj0FB9hNcaF-Crz8tMvMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<0a1a01d42c16$934bd470$b9e37d50$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <448813691.236775022.1533493671141.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>

How great of impact does this have on the application's performance?

Can a server based cron job be used as it take very little resources and can be centralized within the network?

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Dettman" <jimdettman at verizon.net>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 10:14:15 AM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Thing is, it doesn't have to be hooked to every form.

 Open a hidden form in the background, set a timer there, and check for a
shutdown flag once a minute.   Also monitor screen.activeform and
screen.activecontrol to check for activity:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vba/access-vba/articles/detect-user-idle-ti
me-or-inactivity

 You can then loop through the forms collection and start closing them.

 The biggest problem however is how to handle a msgbox that is currently up.
Form add/edits you can easily un-do, but handling a popup dialog is a
problem.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Bill Benson
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 10:33 AM
To: John W. Colby
Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Yeah that is kinda funny... you're right as usual mr colby

On Sat, Aug 4, 2018, 10:09 AM John Colby <jwcolby at gmail.com> wrote:

>  >>In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every
> control on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a
> certain period of inactivity is reached.
>
> LOL, can you say "class"?
>
> On 8/1/2018 2:35 AM, Bill Benson wrote:
> > Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just
to
> > get *reasonable* robustness?
> >
> > This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
> > than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
> > solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.
> >
> > Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
> > years despite many requests for a fix?
> >
> > Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL
Server
> > or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
> > asking for trouble.
> >
> > In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every
> control
> > on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
> > period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No
> message
> > to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
> > telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time
of
> > forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't
> display a
> > "Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the
system
> > awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer,
> with a
> > label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its
preset
> > interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
> > data isn't saved, too bad.
> >
> > This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> >> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
> >>
> >> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as
> it
> >> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
> >>
> >> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
> >> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
> >> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> >> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
> >>
> >> Hi Listers,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
> >> leaves
> >> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the
> RDS
> >> servers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged
> off?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> David Emerson
> >> Dalyn Software Ltd
> >> Wellington, New Zealand
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> AccessD mailing list
> >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >> --
> >> AccessD mailing list
> >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>
>
> --
> John W. Colby
>
>
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From accessd at shaw.ca  Sun Aug  5 21:17:36 2018
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 20:17:36 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>
	<1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
	<CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1144318203.238424714.1533521856840.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>

I think that MS Access is an excellent solution for a small network but... As soon as the network grows in size and complexity the connection layer and BE DB needs to be replaced. The inevitable is always hard to accept as it costs more and excellent programmers have been able to "make" it sort of work...but in the long-run no one is saving anything. 

That said, MS Access, has a down-right pretty FE.

Jim  

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Benson" <bensonforums at gmail.com>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 11:35:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just to
get *reasonable* robustness?

This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.

Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
years despite many requests for a fix?

Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL Server
or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
asking for trouble.

In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every control
on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No message
to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time of
forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't display a
"Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the system
awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer, with a
label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its preset
interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
data isn't saved, too bad.

This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
>
> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as it
> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
>
> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
>
> Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
>
> Hi Listers,
>
>
>
> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
> leaves
> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the RDS
> servers.
>
>
>
> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged off?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> David Emerson
> Dalyn Software Ltd
> Wellington, New Zealand
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From jimdettman at verizon.net  Tue Aug  7 12:02:02 2018
From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 13:02:02 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <448813691.236775022.1533493671141.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>	<1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>	<CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>	<06316410-7b51-56bd-cb19-792fc28c27cd@Gmail.com>	<CAJLzs_0WOotBxfc9-AH_W7O3-M45kKj0FB9hNcaF-Crz8tMvMg@mail.gmail.com>	<0a1a01d42c16$934bd470$b9e37d50$@verizon.net>
	<448813691.236775022.1533493671141.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <00e901d42e70$5cc61fd0$16525f70$@verizon.net>


 I've never found it to be an issue.

 I check once a minute.   In the past, I just used to do a DCount() on a
table called tblAppShutdown.   If I found a record, I would start a
shutdown.  Later I generalized that into a pair of procedures and a single
table to hold locks for various resources such as the app, records,
printers, etc.  I've got an article on EE covering that.

 I'm not sure I understand the cron job; this is not something that can be
external to the app.  It boils down to every so often your app needs to
check for some type of flag, be it a field, record, file on disk, etc. and
if it finds it, starts a shutdown.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Lawrence
Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2018 2:28 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

How great of impact does this have on the application's performance?

Can a server based cron job be used as it take very little resources and can
be centralized within the network?

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Dettman" <jimdettman at verizon.net>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving"
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 10:14:15 AM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Thing is, it doesn't have to be hooked to every form.

 Open a hidden form in the background, set a timer there, and check for a
shutdown flag once a minute.   Also monitor screen.activeform and
screen.activecontrol to check for activity:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vba/access-vba/articles/detect-user-idle-ti
me-or-inactivity

 You can then loop through the forms collection and start closing them.

 The biggest problem however is how to handle a msgbox that is currently up.
Form add/edits you can easily un-do, but handling a popup dialog is a
problem.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Bill Benson
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 10:33 AM
To: John W. Colby
Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Yeah that is kinda funny... you're right as usual mr colby

On Sat, Aug 4, 2018, 10:09 AM John Colby <jwcolby at gmail.com> wrote:

>  >>In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every
> control on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a
> certain period of inactivity is reached.
>
> LOL, can you say "class"?
>
> On 8/1/2018 2:35 AM, Bill Benson wrote:
> > Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just
to
> > get *reasonable* robustness?
> >
> > This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
> > than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
> > solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.
> >
> > Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
> > years despite many requests for a fix?
> >
> > Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL
Server
> > or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
> > asking for trouble.
> >
> > In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every
> control
> > on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
> > period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No
> message
> > to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
> > telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time
of
> > forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't
> display a
> > "Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the
system
> > awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer,
> with a
> > label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its
preset
> > interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
> > data isn't saved, too bad.
> >
> > This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> >> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
> >>
> >> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as
> it
> >> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
> >>
> >> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
> >> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
> >> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> >> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
> >>
> >> Hi Listers,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
> >> leaves
> >> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the
> RDS
> >> servers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged
> off?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> David Emerson
> >> Dalyn Software Ltd
> >> Wellington, New Zealand
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> AccessD mailing list
> >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >> --
> >> AccessD mailing list
> >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>
>
> --
> John W. Colby
>
>
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
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From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Aug  7 12:28:34 2018
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 11:28:34 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <00e901d42e70$5cc61fd0$16525f70$@verizon.net>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>
	<1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
	<CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>
	<06316410-7b51-56bd-cb19-792fc28c27cd@Gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0WOotBxfc9-AH_W7O3-M45kKj0FB9hNcaF-Crz8tMvMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<0a1a01d42c16$934bd470$b9e37d50$@verizon.net>
	<448813691.236775022.1533493671141.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
	<00e901d42e70$5cc61fd0$16525f70$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <1398730269.247122334.1533662914351.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>

Sorry, it is called the "Task Scheduler" in Microsoft vernacular. 

Many years ago I did run into some problems using this type of function, in MS Access but I may have configured it incorrectly. This may not be the best idea but I would be tempted to just "lock" the data file (administration over-ride), changing file to read-only and leave it at that. 

Use to do that when working late nights on a client's servers and all the users connection had not been closed. It may have confused some user who wondered what happened to the record they were working on, before they went on holidays but no data files ever became corrupted via a backup or reboot. 

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Dettman" <jimdettman at verizon.net>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2018 10:02:02 AM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

I've never found it to be an issue.

 I check once a minute.   In the past, I just used to do a DCount() on a
table called tblAppShutdown.   If I found a record, I would start a
shutdown.  Later I generalized that into a pair of procedures and a single
table to hold locks for various resources such as the app, records,
printers, etc.  I've got an article on EE covering that.

 I'm not sure I understand the cron job; this is not something that can be
external to the app.  It boils down to every so often your app needs to
check for some type of flag, be it a field, record, file on disk, etc. and
if it finds it, starts a shutdown.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Lawrence
Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2018 2:28 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

How great of impact does this have on the application's performance?

Can a server based cron job be used as it take very little resources and can
be centralized within the network?

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Dettman" <jimdettman at verizon.net>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving"
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 10:14:15 AM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Thing is, it doesn't have to be hooked to every form.

 Open a hidden form in the background, set a timer there, and check for a
shutdown flag once a minute.   Also monitor screen.activeform and
screen.activecontrol to check for activity:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vba/access-vba/articles/detect-user-idle-ti
me-or-inactivity

 You can then loop through the forms collection and start closing them.

 The biggest problem however is how to handle a msgbox that is currently up.
Form add/edits you can easily un-do, but handling a popup dialog is a
problem.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Bill Benson
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 10:33 AM
To: John W. Colby
Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Yeah that is kinda funny... you're right as usual mr colby

On Sat, Aug 4, 2018, 10:09 AM John Colby <jwcolby at gmail.com> wrote:

>  >>In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every
> control on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a
> certain period of inactivity is reached.
>
> LOL, can you say "class"?
>
> On 8/1/2018 2:35 AM, Bill Benson wrote:
> > Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just
to
> > get *reasonable* robustness?
> >
> > This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
> > than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
> > solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.
> >
> > Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
> > years despite many requests for a fix?
> >
> > Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL
Server
> > or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
> > asking for trouble.
> >
> > In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every
> control
> > on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
> > period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No
> message
> > to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
> > telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time
of
> > forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't
> display a
> > "Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the
system
> > awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer,
> with a
> > label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its
preset
> > interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
> > data isn't saved, too bad.
> >
> > This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> >> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
> >>
> >> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as
> it
> >> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
> >>
> >> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
> >> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
> >> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> >> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
> >>
> >> Hi Listers,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
> >> leaves
> >> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the
> RDS
> >> servers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged
> off?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> David Emerson
> >> Dalyn Software Ltd
> >> Wellington, New Zealand
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> AccessD mailing list
> >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >> --
> >> AccessD mailing list
> >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>
>
> --
> John W. Colby
>
>
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

-- 
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AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
-- 
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AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

-- 
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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From jimdettman at verizon.net  Tue Aug  7 13:42:28 2018
From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 14:42:28 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <1398730269.247122334.1533662914351.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>	<1124234852.211725632.1533099611799.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>	<CAJLzs_3jzqVvffeHATHEiyx_5kQSLsRbnTthrVMXNXWKTr_EeA@mail.gmail.com>	<06316410-7b51-56bd-cb19-792fc28c27cd@Gmail.com>	<CAJLzs_0WOotBxfc9-AH_W7O3-M45kKj0FB9hNcaF-Crz8tMvMg@mail.gmail.com>	<0a1a01d42c16$934bd470$b9e37d50$@verizon.net>	<448813691.236775022.1533493671141.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>	<00e901d42e70$5cc61fd0$16525f70$@verizon.net>
	<1398730269.247122334.1533662914351.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <013c01d42e7e$6524e220$2f6ea660$@verizon.net>


 Oh I know what a cron job is, I just don't see how it relates.

 If a user is sitting with an app open, there is nothing you can do
externally to force it to close gracefully.

 In some way, the app itself must check a flag and shut itself down.  You
might have a cron job that sets that flag, pauses, then do a backup or
whatever, and then clears the flag, but the shutdown itself must be done
internally in the app.

 That's what I was driving at.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Lawrence
Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2018 1:29 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Sorry, it is called the "Task Scheduler" in Microsoft vernacular. 

Many years ago I did run into some problems using this type of function, in
MS Access but I may have configured it incorrectly. This may not be the best
idea but I would be tempted to just "lock" the data file (administration
over-ride), changing file to read-only and leave it at that. 

Use to do that when working late nights on a client's servers and all the
users connection had not been closed. It may have confused some user who
wondered what happened to the record they were working on, before they went
on holidays but no data files ever became corrupted via a backup or reboot. 

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Dettman" <jimdettman at verizon.net>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving"
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2018 10:02:02 AM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

I've never found it to be an issue.

 I check once a minute.   In the past, I just used to do a DCount() on a
table called tblAppShutdown.   If I found a record, I would start a
shutdown.  Later I generalized that into a pair of procedures and a single
table to hold locks for various resources such as the app, records,
printers, etc.  I've got an article on EE covering that.

 I'm not sure I understand the cron job; this is not something that can be
external to the app.  It boils down to every so often your app needs to
check for some type of flag, be it a field, record, file on disk, etc. and
if it finds it, starts a shutdown.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Lawrence
Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2018 2:28 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

How great of impact does this have on the application's performance?

Can a server based cron job be used as it take very little resources and can
be centralized within the network?

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Dettman" <jimdettman at verizon.net>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving"
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 10:14:15 AM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Thing is, it doesn't have to be hooked to every form.

 Open a hidden form in the background, set a timer there, and check for a
shutdown flag once a minute.   Also monitor screen.activeform and
screen.activecontrol to check for activity:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vba/access-vba/articles/detect-user-idle-ti
me-or-inactivity

 You can then loop through the forms collection and start closing them.

 The biggest problem however is how to handle a msgbox that is currently up.
Form add/edits you can easily un-do, but handling a popup dialog is a
problem.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Bill Benson
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 10:33 AM
To: John W. Colby
Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Yeah that is kinda funny... you're right as usual mr colby

On Sat, Aug 4, 2018, 10:09 AM John Colby <jwcolby at gmail.com> wrote:

>  >>In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every
> control on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a
> certain period of inactivity is reached.
>
> LOL, can you say "class"?
>
> On 8/1/2018 2:35 AM, Bill Benson wrote:
> > Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just
to
> > get *reasonable* robustness?
> >
> > This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
> > than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
> > solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.
> >
> > Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
> > years despite many requests for a fix?
> >
> > Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL
Server
> > or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
> > asking for trouble.
> >
> > In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every
> control
> > on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
> > period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No
> message
> > to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
> > telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time
of
> > forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't
> display a
> > "Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the
system
> > awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer,
> with a
> > label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its
preset
> > interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
> > data isn't saved, too bad.
> >
> > This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> >> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
> >>
> >> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as
> it
> >> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
> >>
> >> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
> >> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
> >> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> >> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
> >>
> >> Hi Listers,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
> >> leaves
> >> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the
> RDS
> >> servers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged
> off?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> David Emerson
> >> Dalyn Software Ltd
> >> Wellington, New Zealand
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> AccessD mailing list
> >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >> --
> >> AccessD mailing list
> >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>
>
> --
> John W. Colby
>
>
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

-- 
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http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
-- 
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http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

-- 
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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Aug  7 14:18:44 2018
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 13:18:44 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
In-Reply-To: <013c01d42e7e$6524e220$2f6ea660$@verizon.net>
References: <001e01d4293e$bbe671e0$33b355a0$@dalyn.co.nz>
	<06316410-7b51-56bd-cb19-792fc28c27cd@Gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0WOotBxfc9-AH_W7O3-M45kKj0FB9hNcaF-Crz8tMvMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<0a1a01d42c16$934bd470$b9e37d50$@verizon.net>
	<448813691.236775022.1533493671141.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
	<00e901d42e70$5cc61fd0$16525f70$@verizon.net>
	<1398730269.247122334.1533662914351.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
	<013c01d42e7e$6524e220$2f6ea660$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <559476789.247623808.1533669524818.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>

It all depends where the data files are stored. If all the files are stored at the individual station, you are right there is nothing that can be done. 

Your plan sounds like a good idea. A few years back I made a single user database application (not-MS) into a multi-user product. It was a lot of work, flags everywhere and background processing. ;-)

Jim 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Dettman" <jimdettman at verizon.net>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2018 11:42:28 AM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Oh I know what a cron job is, I just don't see how it relates.

 If a user is sitting with an app open, there is nothing you can do
externally to force it to close gracefully.

 In some way, the app itself must check a flag and shut itself down.  You
might have a cron job that sets that flag, pauses, then do a backup or
whatever, and then clears the flag, but the shutdown itself must be done
internally in the app.

 That's what I was driving at.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Lawrence
Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2018 1:29 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Sorry, it is called the "Task Scheduler" in Microsoft vernacular. 

Many years ago I did run into some problems using this type of function, in
MS Access but I may have configured it incorrectly. This may not be the best
idea but I would be tempted to just "lock" the data file (administration
over-ride), changing file to read-only and leave it at that. 

Use to do that when working late nights on a client's servers and all the
users connection had not been closed. It may have confused some user who
wondered what happened to the record they were working on, before they went
on holidays but no data files ever became corrupted via a backup or reboot. 

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Dettman" <jimdettman at verizon.net>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving"
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2018 10:02:02 AM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

I've never found it to be an issue.

 I check once a minute.   In the past, I just used to do a DCount() on a
table called tblAppShutdown.   If I found a record, I would start a
shutdown.  Later I generalized that into a pair of procedures and a single
table to hold locks for various resources such as the app, records,
printers, etc.  I've got an article on EE covering that.

 I'm not sure I understand the cron job; this is not something that can be
external to the app.  It boils down to every so often your app needs to
check for some type of flag, be it a field, record, file on disk, etc. and
if it finds it, starts a shutdown.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Lawrence
Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2018 2:28 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

How great of impact does this have on the application's performance?

Can a server based cron job be used as it take very little resources and can
be centralized within the network?

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Dettman" <jimdettman at verizon.net>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving"
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 10:14:15 AM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Thing is, it doesn't have to be hooked to every form.

 Open a hidden form in the background, set a timer there, and check for a
shutdown flag once a minute.   Also monitor screen.activeform and
screen.activecontrol to check for activity:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vba/access-vba/articles/detect-user-idle-ti
me-or-inactivity

 You can then loop through the forms collection and start closing them.

 The biggest problem however is how to handle a msgbox that is currently up.
Form add/edits you can easily un-do, but handling a popup dialog is a
problem.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Bill Benson
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 10:33 AM
To: John W. Colby
Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP

Yeah that is kinda funny... you're right as usual mr colby

On Sat, Aug 4, 2018, 10:09 AM John Colby <jwcolby at gmail.com> wrote:

>  >>In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every
> control on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a
> certain period of inactivity is reached.
>
> LOL, can you say "class"?
>
> On 8/1/2018 2:35 AM, Bill Benson wrote:
> > Why do we always have to "switch" from Access to another platform just
to
> > get *reasonable* robustness?
> >
> > This problem is well documented and there no known solution except less
> > than perfect mechanisms like Chris Symonds or Alvin Meyer KickThemOff
> > solutions, which still are not fool proof, from my viewpoint.
> >
> > Why doesn't MS implement a fix to a problem that has existed for 10 plus
> > years despite many requests for a fix?
> >
> > Fortunately in my corporate environment, the backend is always SQL
Server
> > or Sharepoint. A purely Access backend on a multi user platform is just
> > asking for trouble.
> >
> > In the interim, I would initiate a timer on the got focus of every
> control
> > on every form that closes all forms and exits the database if a certain
> > period of inactivity is reached. 30 minutes is usually adequate. No
> message
> > to the user, but a scrape of data can be sent to the user in an email
> > telling them which form (s) were open, what field data existed at time
of
> > forced exit, and a request to be more responsibe in future. Don't
> display a
> > "Database will close in XX minutes" messagebox, that will hang the
system
> > awaiting their response... but you can pop a dialog form on a timer,
> with a
> > label and a cancel button. When the timer on that form reaches its
preset
> > interval, the form closes and commences database exit routines. If their
> > data isn't saved, too bad.
> >
> > This has to be one of the most frustrating things in all of Access.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 1:01 AM Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> Has anyone looked at SSH or SSL connections as they are built into
> >> Window10 by default? Extremely robust and resilient.
> >>
> >> Maybe it might be better to setup remote users on SQL-Express DB BE as
> it
> >> does not require a synchronize connection like a MDB does.
> >>
> >> Aside: Ran into a similar problem many years ago and moved the entire
> >> network's BE to a MSSQL DB and that was an end to corruption issues.
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "David Emerson" <newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz>
> >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <
> >> accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:24:11 PM
> >> Subject: [AccessD] Clean Shut Down of Access When Left Open in RDP
> >>
> >> Hi Listers,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> A client has a problem with Access data corruption when a user on RDP
> >> leaves
> >> the Access application open and the users are forcibly logged off the
> RDS
> >> servers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Is there a way for Access to be closed first before the user is logged
> off?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> David Emerson
> >> Dalyn Software Ltd
> >> Wellington, New Zealand
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> AccessD mailing list
> >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >> --
> >> AccessD mailing list
> >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>
>
> --
> John W. Colby
>
>
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From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Tue Aug  7 16:48:19 2018
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 14:48:19 -0700
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
Message-ID: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>

Dear List:

 

A client has me adding some functions to a legacy app that was written in 32
bit Access. So it has trouble running on the 64 bit Access he has on his
machine.  Switching to 32 bit is not an option. 

 

The adh common open file dialog function which has been working so nicely no
longer works - it uses comdlg32.dll.  

 

Declare PtrSafe Function adh_apiGetOpenFileName Lib "comdlg32.dll" _

Alias "GetOpenFileNameA" (ofn As tagOPENFILENAME) As Boolean

 

I added the PtrSafe and changed the declarations of Long to LongPtr.  But no
cigar.

 

So I'm looking for a replacement open file dialog box function that might
work on both 232 and 64 bit boxes.

 

Any help greatly appreciated by me and my client who HAS to get a report out
this week. L

 

MTIA

 

 

Rocky Smolin

Beach Access Software

760-683-5777

 <http://www.bchacc.com> www.bchacc.com

 <http://www.e-z-mrp.com> www.e-z-mrp.com

Skype: rocky.smolin

 

 


From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz  Tue Aug  7 17:09:48 2018
From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 10:09:48 +1200
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
In-Reply-To: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>
References: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>
Message-ID: <00ba01d42e9b$5b560680$12021380$@dalyn.co.nz>

Hi Rocky,

What does that function actually do - does it just return the path of a
folder or file, or does it actually open a selected file?

Regards

David Emerson
Dalyn Software Ltd
Wellington, New Zealand



-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Rocky Smolin
Sent: Wednesday, 8 August 2018 9:48 a.m.
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box

Dear List:

 

A client has me adding some functions to a legacy app that was written in 32
bit Access. So it has trouble running on the 64 bit Access he has on his
machine.  Switching to 32 bit is not an option. 

 

The adh common open file dialog function which has been working so nicely no
longer works - it uses comdlg32.dll.  

 

Declare PtrSafe Function adh_apiGetOpenFileName Lib "comdlg32.dll" _

Alias "GetOpenFileNameA" (ofn As tagOPENFILENAME) As Boolean

 

I added the PtrSafe and changed the declarations of Long to LongPtr.  But no
cigar.

 

So I'm looking for a replacement open file dialog box function that might
work on both 232 and 64 bit boxes.

 

Any help greatly appreciated by me and my client who HAS to get a report out
this week. L

 

MTIA

 

 

Rocky Smolin

Beach Access Software

760-683-5777

 <http://www.bchacc.com> www.bchacc.com

 <http://www.e-z-mrp.com> www.e-z-mrp.com

Skype: rocky.smolin

 

 

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From DMcGillivray at ctc.ca.gov  Tue Aug  7 17:41:01 2018
From: DMcGillivray at ctc.ca.gov (McGillivray, Don)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 22:41:01 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
In-Reply-To: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>
References: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>
Message-ID: <3c80d830c9ff4709af5df8c428f8390c@ctc.ca.gov>

Hi Rocky,

If setting a reference to the MS Office Object Library is an option, you can use the FileDialog object.  

This may get you started, and I'm sure you can find plenty of references online for other features and functionality:

    Dim objDialog As Object
    Dim strUserPath As String 

    Set objDialog = Application.FileDialog(msoFileDialogFilePicker)
    
    With objDialog
        .Filters.Add "Excel Workbook Files", "*.xlsx", 1
        .ButtonName = "Select"
        .FilterIndex = 0
        .InitialView = msoFileDialogViewDetails
        .Title = "Select a Excel spreadsheet for import"
        .AllowMultiSelect = False
        If .Show = -1 Then strUserPath = .SelectedItems(1)
    End With


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 2:48 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box

Dear List:

 

A client has me adding some functions to a legacy app that was written in 32 bit Access. So it has trouble running on the 64 bit Access he has on his machine.  Switching to 32 bit is not an option. 

 

The adh common open file dialog function which has been working so nicely no longer works - it uses comdlg32.dll.  

 

Declare PtrSafe Function adh_apiGetOpenFileName Lib "comdlg32.dll" _

Alias "GetOpenFileNameA" (ofn As tagOPENFILENAME) As Boolean

 

I added the PtrSafe and changed the declarations of Long to LongPtr.  But no cigar.

 

So I'm looking for a replacement open file dialog box function that might work on both 232 and 64 bit boxes.

 

Any help greatly appreciated by me and my client who HAS to get a report out this week. L

 

MTIA

 

 

Rocky Smolin

Beach Access Software

760-683-5777

 <http://www.bchacc.com> www.bchacc.com

 <http://www.e-z-mrp.com> www.e-z-mrp.com

Skype: rocky.smolin

 

 

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From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Aug  7 17:53:54 2018
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 08:53:54 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
In-Reply-To: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>
References: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>
Message-ID: <5B6A2302.3680.18CD2B07@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

>  I added the PtrSafe and changed the declarations of Long to LongPtr. 

Be careful with Long/LongPtr.  You should only change those Longs which are actual 
pointers to memory locations or handles.  All the others need to stay as Long.

On 7 Aug 2018 at 14:48, Rocky Smolin wrote:

> Dear List:
> 
> 
> 
> A client has me adding some functions to a legacy app that was written
> in 32 bit Access. So it has trouble running on the 64 bit Access he
> has on his machine.  Switching to 32 bit is not an option. 
> 
> 
> 
> The adh common open file dialog function which has been working so
> nicely no longer works - it uses comdlg32.dll.  
> 
> 
> 
> Declare PtrSafe Function adh_apiGetOpenFileName Lib "comdlg32.dll" _
> 
> Alias "GetOpenFileNameA" (ofn As tagOPENFILENAME) As Boolean
> 
> 
> 
> I added the PtrSafe and changed the declarations of Long to LongPtr. 
> But no cigar.
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm looking for a replacement open file dialog box function that
> might work on both 232 and 64 bit boxes.
> 
> 
> 
> Any help greatly appreciated by me and my client who HAS to get a
> report out this week. L
> 
> 
> 
> MTIA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocky Smolin
> 
> Beach Access Software
> 
> 760-683-5777
> 
>  <http://www.bchacc.com> www.bchacc.com
> 
>  <http://www.e-z-mrp.com> www.e-z-mrp.com
> 
> Skype: rocky.smolin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Aug  7 18:15:23 2018
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 09:15:23 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
In-Reply-To: <5B6A2302.3680.18CD2B07@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>,
	<5B6A2302.3680.18CD2B07@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <5B6A280B.26078.18E0D8C4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

This site actually shows you which Longs you need to change in OPENFILENAME :)

https://gpgonaccess.blogspot.com/2010/03/work-in-progress-and-64-bit-vba.html

On 8 Aug 2018 at 8:53, Stuart McLachlan wrote:

> >  I added the PtrSafe and changed the declarations of Long to
> >  LongPtr. 
> 
> Be careful with Long/LongPtr.  You should only change those Longs
> which are actual pointers to memory locations or handles.  All the
> others need to stay as Long.
> 
> On 7 Aug 2018 at 14:48, Rocky Smolin wrote:
> 
> > Dear List:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > A client has me adding some functions to a legacy app that was
> > written in 32 bit Access. So it has trouble running on the 64 bit
> > Access he has on his machine.  Switching to 32 bit is not an option.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The adh common open file dialog function which has been working so
> > nicely no longer works - it uses comdlg32.dll.  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Declare PtrSafe Function adh_apiGetOpenFileName Lib "comdlg32.dll" _
> > 
> > Alias "GetOpenFileNameA" (ofn As tagOPENFILENAME) As Boolean
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I added the PtrSafe and changed the declarations of Long to LongPtr.
> > But no cigar.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > So I'm looking for a replacement open file dialog box function that
> > might work on both 232 and 64 bit boxes.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Any help greatly appreciated by me and my client who HAS to get a
> > report out this week. L
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > MTIA
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Rocky Smolin
> > 
> > Beach Access Software
> > 
> > 760-683-5777
> > 
> >  <http://www.bchacc.com> www.bchacc.com
> > 
> >  <http://www.e-z-mrp.com> www.e-z-mrp.com
> > 
> > Skype: rocky.smolin
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Aug  7 18:18:44 2018
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 09:18:44 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
In-Reply-To: <5B6A2302.3680.18CD2B07@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>,
	<5B6A2302.3680.18CD2B07@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <5B6A28D4.21077.18E3EA60@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Also note the requrement for the B in

.lStructSize = LenB(OFN)

when building the OPENFILENAME variable before calling the function.


On 8 Aug 2018 at 8:53, Stuart McLachlan wrote:

> >  I added the PtrSafe and changed the declarations of Long to
> >  LongPtr. 
> 
> Be careful with Long/LongPtr.  You should only change those Longs
> which are actual pointers to memory locations or handles.  All the
> others need to stay as Long.
> 
> On 7 Aug 2018 at 14:48, Rocky Smolin wrote:
> 
> > Dear List:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > A client has me adding some functions to a legacy app that was
> > written in 32 bit Access. So it has trouble running on the 64 bit
> > Access he has on his machine.  Switching to 32 bit is not an option.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The adh common open file dialog function which has been working so
> > nicely no longer works - it uses comdlg32.dll.  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Declare PtrSafe Function adh_apiGetOpenFileName Lib "comdlg32.dll" _
> > 
> > Alias "GetOpenFileNameA" (ofn As tagOPENFILENAME) As Boolean
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I added the PtrSafe and changed the declarations of Long to LongPtr.
> > But no cigar.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > So I'm looking for a replacement open file dialog box function that
> > might work on both 232 and 64 bit boxes.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Any help greatly appreciated by me and my client who HAS to get a
> > report out this week. L
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > MTIA
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Rocky Smolin
> > 
> > Beach Access Software
> > 
> > 760-683-5777
> > 
> >  <http://www.bchacc.com> www.bchacc.com
> > 
> >  <http://www.e-z-mrp.com> www.e-z-mrp.com
> > 
> > Skype: rocky.smolin
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Tue Aug  7 18:38:42 2018
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 16:38:42 -0700
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
In-Reply-To: <00ba01d42e9b$5b560680$12021380$@dalyn.co.nz>
References: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>
	<00ba01d42e9b$5b560680$12021380$@dalyn.co.nz>
Message-ID: <00c301d42ea7$c6852e20$538f8a60$@bchacc.com>

David:

I fixed it by using the Office.FileDialog object.  Simple and effective.  So
far.  Don't know what kind of gotchas accrue to this object but it's
working. :)

Best,

r

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
David Emerson
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 3:10 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box

Hi Rocky,

What does that function actually do - does it just return the path of a
folder or file, or does it actually open a selected file?

Regards

David Emerson
Dalyn Software Ltd
Wellington, New Zealand



-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Rocky Smolin
Sent: Wednesday, 8 August 2018 9:48 a.m.
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box

Dear List:

 

A client has me adding some functions to a legacy app that was written in 32
bit Access. So it has trouble running on the 64 bit Access he has on his
machine.  Switching to 32 bit is not an option. 

 

The adh common open file dialog function which has been working so nicely no
longer works - it uses comdlg32.dll.  

 

Declare PtrSafe Function adh_apiGetOpenFileName Lib "comdlg32.dll" _

Alias "GetOpenFileNameA" (ofn As tagOPENFILENAME) As Boolean

 

I added the PtrSafe and changed the declarations of Long to LongPtr.  But no
cigar.

 

So I'm looking for a replacement open file dialog box function that might
work on both 232 and 64 bit boxes.

 

Any help greatly appreciated by me and my client who HAS to get a report out
this week. L

 

MTIA

 

 

Rocky Smolin

Beach Access Software

760-683-5777

 <http://www.bchacc.com> www.bchacc.com

 <http://www.e-z-mrp.com> www.e-z-mrp.com

Skype: rocky.smolin

 

 

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Tue Aug  7 18:43:17 2018
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 16:43:17 -0700
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
In-Reply-To: <3c80d830c9ff4709af5df8c428f8390c@ctc.ca.gov>
References: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>
	<3c80d830c9ff4709af5df8c428f8390c@ctc.ca.gov>
Message-ID: <00c401d42ea8$6a5bede0$3f13c9a0$@bchacc.com>

Don:

That's what I ended up using - found it on the internets. 

Thanks

Rocky


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
McGillivray, Don
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 3:41 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box

Hi Rocky,

If setting a reference to the MS Office Object Library is an option, you can
use the FileDialog object.  

This may get you started, and I'm sure you can find plenty of references
online for other features and functionality:

    Dim objDialog As Object
    Dim strUserPath As String 

    Set objDialog = Application.FileDialog(msoFileDialogFilePicker)
    
    With objDialog
        .Filters.Add "Excel Workbook Files", "*.xlsx", 1
        .ButtonName = "Select"
        .FilterIndex = 0
        .InitialView = msoFileDialogViewDetails
        .Title = "Select a Excel spreadsheet for import"
        .AllowMultiSelect = False
        If .Show = -1 Then strUserPath = .SelectedItems(1)
    End With


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Rocky Smolin
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 2:48 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box

Dear List:

 

A client has me adding some functions to a legacy app that was written in 32
bit Access. So it has trouble running on the 64 bit Access he has on his
machine.  Switching to 32 bit is not an option. 

 

The adh common open file dialog function which has been working so nicely no
longer works - it uses comdlg32.dll.  

 

Declare PtrSafe Function adh_apiGetOpenFileName Lib "comdlg32.dll" _

Alias "GetOpenFileNameA" (ofn As tagOPENFILENAME) As Boolean

 

I added the PtrSafe and changed the declarations of Long to LongPtr.  But no
cigar.

 

So I'm looking for a replacement open file dialog box function that might
work on both 232 and 64 bit boxes.

 

Any help greatly appreciated by me and my client who HAS to get a report out
this week. L

 

MTIA

 

 

Rocky Smolin

Beach Access Software

760-683-5777

 <http://www.bchacc.com> www.bchacc.com

 <http://www.e-z-mrp.com> www.e-z-mrp.com

Skype: rocky.smolin

 

 

--
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Tue Aug  7 18:43:55 2018
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 16:43:55 -0700
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
In-Reply-To: <5B6A2302.3680.18CD2B07@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>
	<5B6A2302.3680.18CD2B07@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <00c501d42ea8$816dff00$8449fd00$@bchacc.com>

Got it.

Tks.

r

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 3:54 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box

>  I added the PtrSafe and changed the declarations of Long to LongPtr. 

Be careful with Long/LongPtr.  You should only change those Longs which are
actual 
pointers to memory locations or handles.  All the others need to stay as
Long.

On 7 Aug 2018 at 14:48, Rocky Smolin wrote:

> Dear List:
> 
> 
> 
> A client has me adding some functions to a legacy app that was written
> in 32 bit Access. So it has trouble running on the 64 bit Access he
> has on his machine.  Switching to 32 bit is not an option. 
> 
> 
> 
> The adh common open file dialog function which has been working so
> nicely no longer works - it uses comdlg32.dll.  
> 
> 
> 
> Declare PtrSafe Function adh_apiGetOpenFileName Lib "comdlg32.dll" _
> 
> Alias "GetOpenFileNameA" (ofn As tagOPENFILENAME) As Boolean
> 
> 
> 
> I added the PtrSafe and changed the declarations of Long to LongPtr. 
> But no cigar.
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm looking for a replacement open file dialog box function that
> might work on both 232 and 64 bit boxes.
> 
> 
> 
> Any help greatly appreciated by me and my client who HAS to get a
> report out this week. L
> 
> 
> 
> MTIA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocky Smolin
> 
> Beach Access Software
> 
> 760-683-5777
> 
>  <http://www.bchacc.com> www.bchacc.com
> 
>  <http://www.e-z-mrp.com> www.e-z-mrp.com
> 
> Skype: rocky.smolin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


-- 
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From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Tue Aug  7 18:44:48 2018
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 16:44:48 -0700
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
In-Reply-To: <5B6A28D4.21077.18E3EA60@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>,
	<5B6A2302.3680.18CD2B07@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<5B6A28D4.21077.18E3EA60@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <00c601d42ea8$a09f87e0$e1de97a0$@bchacc.com>

Roger that.

r

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 4:19 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box

Also note the requrement for the B in

.lStructSize = LenB(OFN)

when building the OPENFILENAME variable before calling the function.


On 8 Aug 2018 at 8:53, Stuart McLachlan wrote:

> >  I added the PtrSafe and changed the declarations of Long to
> >  LongPtr. 
> 
> Be careful with Long/LongPtr.  You should only change those Longs
> which are actual pointers to memory locations or handles.  All the
> others need to stay as Long.
> 
> On 7 Aug 2018 at 14:48, Rocky Smolin wrote:
> 
> > Dear List:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > A client has me adding some functions to a legacy app that was
> > written in 32 bit Access. So it has trouble running on the 64 bit
> > Access he has on his machine.  Switching to 32 bit is not an option.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The adh common open file dialog function which has been working so
> > nicely no longer works - it uses comdlg32.dll.  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Declare PtrSafe Function adh_apiGetOpenFileName Lib "comdlg32.dll" _
> > 
> > Alias "GetOpenFileNameA" (ofn As tagOPENFILENAME) As Boolean
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I added the PtrSafe and changed the declarations of Long to LongPtr.
> > But no cigar.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > So I'm looking for a replacement open file dialog box function that
> > might work on both 232 and 64 bit boxes.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Any help greatly appreciated by me and my client who HAS to get a
> > report out this week. L
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > MTIA
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Rocky Smolin
> > 
> > Beach Access Software
> > 
> > 760-683-5777
> > 
> >  <http://www.bchacc.com> www.bchacc.com
> > 
> >  <http://www.e-z-mrp.com> www.e-z-mrp.com
> > 
> > Skype: rocky.smolin
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Aug  7 19:46:52 2018
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 10:46:52 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
In-Reply-To: <00c301d42ea7$c6852e20$538f8a60$@bchacc.com>
References: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>,
	<00ba01d42e9b$5b560680$12021380$@dalyn.co.nz>,
	<00c301d42ea7$c6852e20$538f8a60$@bchacc.com>
Message-ID: <5B6A3D7C.9031.193497D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

The gotcha will be when you  distribute your application.

Office.FileDialog relies on a reference to the Microsoft Office Object Model library, which is 
version specific.

So it will be problematic if you build  in one version of Office and run it in another (especially if 
you are distributing an accde!)


On 7 Aug 2018 at 16:38, Rocky Smolin wrote:

> David:
> 
> I fixed it by using the Office.FileDialog object.  Simple and
> effective.  So far.  Don't know what kind of gotchas accrue to this
> object but it's working. :)
> 
> Best,
> 


From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz  Tue Aug  7 20:00:37 2018
From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 13:00:37 +1200
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
In-Reply-To: <5B6A3D7C.9031.193497D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>,
	<00ba01d42e9b$5b560680$12021380$@dalyn.co.nz>,
	<00c301d42ea7$c6852e20$538f8a60$@bchacc.com>
	<5B6A3D7C.9031.193497D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <00d601d42eb3$383b2190$a8b164b0$@dalyn.co.nz>

I have found that as long as you build in the earliest version you are ok
when it is run on later versions.

It is only when it is run on earlier versions does the problem start with
referencing.

Regards

David Emerson
Dalyn Software Ltd
Wellington, New Zealand




-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Wednesday, 8 August 2018 12:47 p.m.
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box

The gotcha will be when you  distribute your application.

Office.FileDialog relies on a reference to the Microsoft Office Object Model
library, which is 
version specific.

So it will be problematic if you build  in one version of Office and run it
in another (especially if 
you are distributing an accde!)


On 7 Aug 2018 at 16:38, Rocky Smolin wrote:

> David:
> 
> I fixed it by using the Office.FileDialog object.  Simple and
> effective.  So far.  Don't know what kind of gotchas accrue to this
> object but it's working. :)
> 
> Best,
> 

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Tue Aug  7 22:30:24 2018
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 20:30:24 -0700
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
In-Reply-To: <5B6A3D7C.9031.193497D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>,
	<00ba01d42e9b$5b560680$12021380$@dalyn.co.nz>,
	<00c301d42ea7$c6852e20$538f8a60$@bchacc.com>
	<5B6A3D7C.9031.193497D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <001801d42ec8$25451bd0$6fcf5370$@bchacc.com>

Fortunately this app will be run by one person on one machine. 

r

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 5:47 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box

The gotcha will be when you  distribute your application.

Office.FileDialog relies on a reference to the Microsoft Office Object Model
library, which is 
version specific.

So it will be problematic if you build  in one version of Office and run it
in another (especially if 
you are distributing an accde!)


On 7 Aug 2018 at 16:38, Rocky Smolin wrote:

> David:
> 
> I fixed it by using the Office.FileDialog object.  Simple and
> effective.  So far.  Don't know what kind of gotchas accrue to this
> object but it's working. :)
> 
> Best,
> 

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Tue Aug  7 22:31:38 2018
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 20:31:38 -0700
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
In-Reply-To: <00d601d42eb3$383b2190$a8b164b0$@dalyn.co.nz>
References: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>,
	<00ba01d42e9b$5b560680$12021380$@dalyn.co.nz>,
	<00c301d42ea7$c6852e20$538f8a60$@bchacc.com>	<5B6A3D7C.9031.193497D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<00d601d42eb3$383b2190$a8b164b0$@dalyn.co.nz>
Message-ID: <001901d42ec8$50cb88c0$f2629a40$@bchacc.com>

I think that's true.  I compiled mine on Access 2010 32-bit and it ran fine
on their Access 2013 64 bit.

r

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
David Emerson
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 6:01 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box

I have found that as long as you build in the earliest version you are ok
when it is run on later versions.

It is only when it is run on earlier versions does the problem start with
referencing.

Regards

David Emerson
Dalyn Software Ltd
Wellington, New Zealand




-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Wednesday, 8 August 2018 12:47 p.m.
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box

The gotcha will be when you  distribute your application.

Office.FileDialog relies on a reference to the Microsoft Office Object Model
library, which is 
version specific.

So it will be problematic if you build  in one version of Office and run it
in another (especially if 
you are distributing an accde!)


On 7 Aug 2018 at 16:38, Rocky Smolin wrote:

> David:
> 
> I fixed it by using the Office.FileDialog object.  Simple and
> effective.  So far.  Don't know what kind of gotchas accrue to this
> object but it's working. :)
> 
> Best,
> 

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From bensonforums at gmail.com  Wed Aug  8 00:48:12 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 01:48:12 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
In-Reply-To: <5B6A3D7C.9031.193497D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>
	<00ba01d42e9b$5b560680$12021380$@dalyn.co.nz>
	<00c301d42ea7$c6852e20$538f8a60$@bchacc.com>
	<5B6A3D7C.9031.193497D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_28JDK8+sri7oESaL3b6KXMs4qEhwK=PWVHsXsDB83KWA@mail.gmail.com>

Can you write some code to create the reference on the fly with On Error
Resume Next? That is what I do in Excel. Just keep adding references by
GUID until one of them "sticks". But it is a good observation.

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 8:46 PM, Stuart McLachlan <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg>
wrote:

> The gotcha will be when you  distribute your application.
>
> Office.FileDialog relies on a reference to the Microsoft Office Object
> Model library, which is
> version specific.
>
> So it will be problematic if you build  in one version of Office and run
> it in another (especially if
> you are distributing an accde!)
>
>
> On 7 Aug 2018 at 16:38, Rocky Smolin wrote:
>
> > David:
> >
> > I fixed it by using the Office.FileDialog object.  Simple and
> > effective.  So far.  Don't know what kind of gotchas accrue to this
> > object but it's working. :)
> >
> > Best,
> >
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Wed Aug  8 09:39:00 2018
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 07:39:00 -0700
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>
	<004d01d42e64$7670d3a0$63527ae0$@bchacc.com>
	<E52765B9-BAAF-4254-BCB0-3DC83B247BE5@burlinggroup.com> 
Message-ID: <003701d42f25$8c2e7fa0$a48b7ee0$@bchacc.com>

Dear List:

A friend of mine is working with a company to design a new website for his company. Here's a link showing its development to date. 

http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/

The copy isn't finalized yet.  He's just working on the layout, appearance and navigation.

Any feedback is welcome.

MTIA


Rocky Smolin
Beach Access Software
760-683-5777
www.bchacc.com
www.e-z-mrp.com
Skype: rocky.smolin
 





From jimdettman at verizon.net  Fri Aug 10 08:06:12 2018
From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 09:06:12 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <003701d42f25$8c2e7fa0$a48b7ee0$@bchacc.com>
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>	<004d01d42e64$7670d3a0$63527ae0$@bchacc.com>	<E52765B9-BAAF-4254-BCB0-3DC83B247BE5@burlinggroup.com>
	<003701d42f25$8c2e7fa0$a48b7ee0$@bchacc.com>
Message-ID: <030c01d430aa$ea840080$bf8c0180$@verizon.net>

Rocky,

  Other than maybe going to a slightly lighter blue on the banner at the
bottom of the pages (with all the headshots of people),  I thought it was a
good layout overall.

  They should try and find someone though that needs those types of
services, and see if it answers all their initial questions and makes them
want to take the next step.

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Rocky Smolin
Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 10:39 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06

Dear List:

A friend of mine is working with a company to design a new website for his
company. Here's a link showing its development to date. 

http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/

The copy isn't finalized yet.  He's just working on the layout, appearance
and navigation.

Any feedback is welcome.

MTIA


Rocky Smolin
Beach Access Software
760-683-5777
www.bchacc.com
www.e-z-mrp.com
Skype: rocky.smolin
 




-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From bensonforums at gmail.com  Fri Aug 10 08:09:18 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 09:09:18 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <003701d42f25$8c2e7fa0$a48b7ee0$@bchacc.com>
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>
	<004d01d42e64$7670d3a0$63527ae0$@bchacc.com>
	<E52765B9-BAAF-4254-BCB0-3DC83B247BE5@burlinggroup.com>
	<003701d42f25$8c2e7fa0$a48b7ee0$@bchacc.com>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_3GvTWzZ-=biFkqGo6Mj6-HiP+tQZxB_RhDihdwoWrMgQ@mail.gmail.com>

I won't even go near a site that begins with http. As opposed to https.

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 10:40 AM Rocky Smolin <rockysmolin at bchacc.com> wrote:

> Dear List:
>
> A friend of mine is working with a company to design a new website for his
> company. Here's a link showing its development to date.
>
> http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/
>
> The copy isn't finalized yet.  He's just working on the layout, appearance
> and navigation.
>
> Any feedback is welcome.
>
> MTIA
>
>
> Rocky Smolin
> Beach Access Software
> 760-683-5777
> www.bchacc.com
> www.e-z-mrp.com
> Skype: rocky.smolin
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From bensonforums at gmail.com  Fri Aug 10 08:18:22 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 09:18:22 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <003701d42f25$8c2e7fa0$a48b7ee0$@bchacc.com>
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>
	<004d01d42e64$7670d3a0$63527ae0$@bchacc.com>
	<E52765B9-BAAF-4254-BCB0-3DC83B247BE5@burlinggroup.com>
	<003701d42f25$8c2e7fa0$a48b7ee0$@bchacc.com>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_3VhKxFA=hxRxFZFLeXWq5sRBFfzrm2y-QcQMEEDiL+tg@mail.gmail.com>

I put in https and it worked fine.

I would say that the bottom panel on home should not vary from light to
dark blue because the contrast (light = active tab) versus dark (non-active
tabs) has already been set as a protocol.

The description under "Candidate" sounds too similar to the one under
"Corporate". Candidate sounds ambiguous, all of its function should be
moved to Corporate. Because prole looking for jobs think they are
Candidates, then they read that and go - Oh, this is what I have working
against me, not for me. Just my two cents, I think Candidate's content
should be part of Corporate, and Career should be relabeled Candidates.



Or is all this text just garbage text for the purpose of showing off a
design?

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 10:40 AM Rocky Smolin <rockysmolin at bchacc.com> wrote:

> Dear List:
>
> A friend of mine is working with a company to design a new website for his
> company. Here's a link showing its development to date.
>
> http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/
>
> The copy isn't finalized yet.  He's just working on the layout, appearance
> and navigation.
>
> Any feedback is welcome.
>
> MTIA
>
>
> Rocky Smolin
> Beach Access Software
> 760-683-5777
> www.bchacc.com
> www.e-z-mrp.com
> Skype: rocky.smolin
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From paul at wordwright.org  Fri Aug 10 09:19:16 2018
From: paul at wordwright.org (paul)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:19:16 +0100
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_3VhKxFA=hxRxFZFLeXWq5sRBFfzrm2y-QcQMEEDiL+tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>
	<004d01d42e64$7670d3a0$63527ae0$@bchacc.com>
	<E52765B9-BAAF-4254-BCB0-3DC83B247BE5@burlinggroup.com>
	<003701d42f25$8c2e7fa0$a48b7ee0$@bchacc.com>
	<CAJLzs_3VhKxFA=hxRxFZFLeXWq5sRBFfzrm2y-QcQMEEDiL+tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoNfVvKJOaK=un5j2-Nck0O8Y+Dn43sOObh45UF-NgOUNua8A@mail.gmail.com>

Be very interesting to see how many from the Access Developers' group
actually look at the site. If Bill's suspicion is correct, this might be
the perfect and most economic way of 'proving' to Google the popularity of
a site!!!

On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 at 14:19, Bill Benson <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:

> I put in https and it worked fine.
>
> I would say that the bottom panel on home should not vary from light to
> dark blue because the contrast (light = active tab) versus dark (non-active
> tabs) has already been set as a protocol.
>
> The description under "Candidate" sounds too similar to the one under
> "Corporate". Candidate sounds ambiguous, all of its function should be
> moved to Corporate. Because prole looking for jobs think they are
> Candidates, then they read that and go - Oh, this is what I have working
> against me, not for me. Just my two cents, I think Candidate's content
> should be part of Corporate, and Career should be relabeled Candidates.
>
>
>
> Or is all this text just garbage text for the purpose of showing off a
> design?
>
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 10:40 AM Rocky Smolin <rockysmolin at bchacc.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear List:
> >
> > A friend of mine is working with a company to design a new website for
> his
> > company. Here's a link showing its development to date.
> >
> > http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/
> >
> > The copy isn't finalized yet.  He's just working on the layout,
> appearance
> > and navigation.
> >
> > Any feedback is welcome.
> >
> > MTIA
> >
> >
> > Rocky Smolin
> > Beach Access Software
> > 760-683-5777
> > www.bchacc.com
> > www.e-z-mrp.com
> > Skype: rocky.smolin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Fri Aug 10 23:37:12 2018
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 14:37:12 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_3GvTWzZ-=biFkqGo6Mj6-HiP+tQZxB_RhDihdwoWrMgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>,
	<003701d42f25$8c2e7fa0$a48b7ee0$@bchacc.com>,
	<CAJLzs_3GvTWzZ-=biFkqGo6Mj6-HiP+tQZxB_RhDihdwoWrMgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B6E67F8.12163.8D0B21D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Another one that's drunk  the Koolaid?

Why not?

On 10 Aug 2018 at 9:09, Bill Benson wrote:

> I won't even go near a site that begins with http. As opposed to
> https.
> 
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 10:40 AM Rocky Smolin <rockysmolin at bchacc.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Dear List:
> >
> > A friend of mine is working with a company to design a new website
> > for his company. Here's a link showing its development to date.
> >
> > http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/
> >
> > The copy isn't finalized yet.  He's just working on the layout,
> > appearance and navigation.
> >
> > Any feedback is welcome.
> >
> > MTIA
> >
> >
> > Rocky Smolin
> > Beach Access Software
> > 760-683-5777
> > www.bchacc.com
> > www.e-z-mrp.com
> > Skype: rocky.smolin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From bensonforums at gmail.com  Fri Aug 10 23:57:59 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 00:57:59 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <5B6E67F8.12163.8D0B21D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>
	<003701d42f25$8c2e7fa0$a48b7ee0$@bchacc.com>
	<CAJLzs_3GvTWzZ-=biFkqGo6Mj6-HiP+tQZxB_RhDihdwoWrMgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B6E67F8.12163.8D0B21D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_3oDLOjMW=NoYyfA89pS0RmA-88KyvRRZniaYf-j_ZVGg@mail.gmail.com>

Because Google says that they are unsafe, and Snopes agrees with them.
Https is not a guarantee of safety either, but it is more safe than not.

I never type in http://www... addresses. I will always add the "s". If the
site fails to load on that basis, I can live without that site, I am pretty
sure.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/http-vs-https/


On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:37 AM, Stuart McLachlan <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg>
wrote:

> Another one that's drunk  the Koolaid?
>
> Why not?
>
> On 10 Aug 2018 at 9:09, Bill Benson wrote:
>
> > I won't even go near a site that begins with http. As opposed to
> > https.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 10:40 AM Rocky Smolin <rockysmolin at bchacc.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Dear List:
> > >
> > > A friend of mine is working with a company to design a new website
> > > for his company. Here's a link showing its development to date.
> > >
> > > http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/
> > >
> > > The copy isn't finalized yet.  He's just working on the layout,
> > > appearance and navigation.
> > >
> > > Any feedback is welcome.
> > >
> > > MTIA
> > >
> > >
> > > Rocky Smolin
> > > Beach Access Software
> > > 760-683-5777
> > > www.bchacc.com
> > > www.e-z-mrp.com
> > > Skype: rocky.smolin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > AccessD mailing list
> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From bensonforums at gmail.com  Sat Aug 11 00:00:28 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 01:00:28 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_3oDLOjMW=NoYyfA89pS0RmA-88KyvRRZniaYf-j_ZVGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>
	<003701d42f25$8c2e7fa0$a48b7ee0$@bchacc.com>
	<CAJLzs_3GvTWzZ-=biFkqGo6Mj6-HiP+tQZxB_RhDihdwoWrMgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B6E67F8.12163.8D0B21D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<CAJLzs_3oDLOjMW=NoYyfA89pS0RmA-88KyvRRZniaYf-j_ZVGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_0P=EDQAYcqvpVS_x5LZRTnMMEO2OS6vkEXDE3S22LqiQ@mail.gmail.com>

More info here
<https://www.blog.google/products/chrome/milestone-chrome-security-marking-http-not-secure/>
.

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:57 AM, Bill Benson <bensonforums at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Because Google says that they are unsafe, and Snopes agrees with them.
> Https is not a guarantee of safety either, but it is more safe than not.
>
> I never type in http://www... addresses. I will always add the "s". If
> the site fails to load on that basis, I can live without that site, I am
> pretty sure.
>
> https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/http-vs-https/
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:37 AM, Stuart McLachlan <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg
> > wrote:
>
>> Another one that's drunk  the Koolaid?
>>
>> Why not?
>>
>> On 10 Aug 2018 at 9:09, Bill Benson wrote:
>>
>> > I won't even go near a site that begins with http. As opposed to
>> > https.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 10:40 AM Rocky Smolin <rockysmolin at bchacc.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Dear List:
>> > >
>> > > A friend of mine is working with a company to design a new website
>> > > for his company. Here's a link showing its development to date.
>> > >
>> > > http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/
>> > >
>> > > The copy isn't finalized yet.  He's just working on the layout,
>> > > appearance and navigation.
>> > >
>> > > Any feedback is welcome.
>> > >
>> > > MTIA
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Rocky Smolin
>> > > Beach Access Software
>> > > 760-683-5777
>> > > www.bchacc.com
>> > > www.e-z-mrp.com
>> > > Skype: rocky.smolin
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > AccessD mailing list
>> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> > >
>> > --
>> > AccessD mailing list
>> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> AccessD mailing list
>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>
>

From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sat Aug 11 00:09:04 2018
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 15:09:04 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_3oDLOjMW=NoYyfA89pS0RmA-88KyvRRZniaYf-j_ZVGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>,
	<5B6E67F8.12163.8D0B21D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<CAJLzs_3oDLOjMW=NoYyfA89pS0RmA-88KyvRRZniaYf-j_ZVGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B6E6F70.21192.8EDDE8A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

So what are you secruing/protecting when you visit an information site that is not collecting 
your details.

What exactly is the risk in going to http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/


On 11 Aug 2018 at 0:57, Bill Benson wrote:

> Because Google says that they are unsafe, and Snopes agrees with them.
> Https is not a guarantee of safety either, but it is more safe than
> not.
> 
> I never type in http://www... addresses. I will always add the "s". If
> the site fails to load on that basis, I can live without that site, I
> am pretty sure.
> 
> https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/http-vs-https/
> 
> 
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:37 AM, Stuart McLachlan
> <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg> wrote:
> 
> > Another one that's drunk  the Koolaid?
> >
> > Why not?
> >
> > On 10 Aug 2018 at 9:09, Bill Benson wrote:
> >
> > > I won't even go near a site that begins with http. As opposed to
> > > https.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 10:40 AM Rocky Smolin
> > > <rockysmolin at bchacc.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear List:
> > > >
> > > > A friend of mine is working with a company to design a new
> > > > website for his company. Here's a link showing its development
> > > > to date.
> > > >
> > > > http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/
> > > >
> > > > The copy isn't finalized yet.  He's just working on the layout,
> > > > appearance and navigation.
> > > >
> > > > Any feedback is welcome.
> > > >
> > > > MTIA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Rocky Smolin
> > > > Beach Access Software
> > > > 760-683-5777
> > > > www.bchacc.com
> > > > www.e-z-mrp.com
> > > > Skype: rocky.smolin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > AccessD mailing list
> > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > >
> > > --
> > > AccessD mailing list
> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sat Aug 11 00:17:16 2018
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 15:17:16 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_0P=EDQAYcqvpVS_x5LZRTnMMEO2OS6vkEXDE3S22LqiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>,
	<CAJLzs_3oDLOjMW=NoYyfA89pS0RmA-88KyvRRZniaYf-j_ZVGg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CAJLzs_0P=EDQAYcqvpVS_x5LZRTnMMEO2OS6vkEXDE3S22LqiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B6E715C.12092.8F560D3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Yep, I've read *lots* of similar pages. 

This is always the sort of justification they use:

"This makes it easier to know whether your personal information is safe as it travels across 
the web, whether you?re checking your bank account or buying concert tickets."

When someone with a basic information site,  who is not collecting personal data,  is told that 
it is going to cost them several times more each year to pay for a dedicated IP address and 
SSL cetiificate, what do you tell them?





On 11 Aug 2018 at 1:00, Bill Benson wrote:

> More info here
> <https://www.blog.google/products/chrome/milestone-chrome-security-mar
> king-http-not-secure/> .
> 
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:57 AM, Bill Benson <bensonforums at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Because Google says that they are unsafe, and Snopes agrees with
> > them. Https is not a guarantee of safety either, but it is more safe
> > than not.
> >
> > I never type in http://www... addresses. I will always add the "s".
> > If the site fails to load on that basis, I can live without that
> > site, I am pretty sure.
> >
> > https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/http-vs-https/
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:37 AM, Stuart McLachlan
> > <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> Another one that's drunk  the Koolaid?
> >>
> >> Why not?
> >>
> >> On 10 Aug 2018 at 9:09, Bill Benson wrote:
> >>
> >> > I won't even go near a site that begins with http. As opposed to
> >> > https.
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 10:40 AM Rocky Smolin
> >> > <rockysmolin at bchacc.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Dear List:
> >> > >
> >> > > A friend of mine is working with a company to design a new
> >> > > website for his company. Here's a link showing its development
> >> > > to date.
> >> > >
> >> > > http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/
> >> > >
> >> > > The copy isn't finalized yet.  He's just working on the layout,
> >> > > appearance and navigation.
> >> > >
> >> > > Any feedback is welcome.
> >> > >
> >> > > MTIA
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Rocky Smolin
> >> > > Beach Access Software
> >> > > 760-683-5777
> >> > > www.bchacc.com
> >> > > www.e-z-mrp.com
> >> > > Skype: rocky.smolin
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > AccessD mailing list
> >> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >> > >
> >> > --
> >> > AccessD mailing list
> >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> AccessD mailing list
> >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>
> >
> >
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From bensonforums at gmail.com  Sat Aug 11 00:17:23 2018
From: bensonforums at gmail.com (Bill Benson)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 01:17:23 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <5B6E6F70.21192.8EDDE8A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>
	<5B6E67F8.12163.8D0B21D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<CAJLzs_3oDLOjMW=NoYyfA89pS0RmA-88KyvRRZniaYf-j_ZVGg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B6E6F70.21192.8EDDE8A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <CAJLzs_2=nWjG=oEnJS0U3r_3kkqTG62EXh2ikZzANEeKOrjDTw@mail.gmail.com>

Stu.... whatever man.

From jimdettman at verizon.net  Sat Aug 11 08:27:36 2018
From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 09:27:36 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
Message-ID: <010901d43177$11a285c0$34e79140$@verizon.net>


 HTTPS buys you some additional assurance that it's a "known" site at least.

 In order to get that, you need a static IP, will probably have a reverse
pointer, and it proves you're in control of the DNS records that represent
the site.  But still, anyone that really has nefarious intents can easily
set all that up with a dummy company. So in the end, it buy's you some
safety even when you are not giving information, but not all much.

 So I would agree with you in that I wouldn't think twice about visiting a
site with http.  But if I have to login or send information, then absolutely
I'd be looking for https.

 What would be most critical though is that I have some good anti-virus
checking the sites I'm visiting, whether their HTTP or HTTPS.  

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2018 1:09 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Website 08/06

So what are you secruing/protecting when you visit an information site that
is not collecting 
your details.

What exactly is the risk in going to http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/


On 11 Aug 2018 at 0:57, Bill Benson wrote:

> Because Google says that they are unsafe, and Snopes agrees with them.
> Https is not a guarantee of safety either, but it is more safe than
> not.
> 
> I never type in http://www... addresses. I will always add the "s". If
> the site fails to load on that basis, I can live without that site, I
> am pretty sure.
> 
> https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/http-vs-https/
> 
> 
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:37 AM, Stuart McLachlan
> <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg> wrote:
> 
> > Another one that's drunk  the Koolaid?
> >
> > Why not?
> >
> > On 10 Aug 2018 at 9:09, Bill Benson wrote:
> >
> > > I won't even go near a site that begins with http. As opposed to
> > > https.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 10:40 AM Rocky Smolin
> > > <rockysmolin at bchacc.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear List:
> > > >
> > > > A friend of mine is working with a company to design a new
> > > > website for his company. Here's a link showing its development
> > > > to date.
> > > >
> > > > http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/
> > > >
> > > > The copy isn't finalized yet.  He's just working on the layout,
> > > > appearance and navigation.
> > > >
> > > > Any feedback is welcome.
> > > >
> > > > MTIA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Rocky Smolin
> > > > Beach Access Software
> > > > 760-683-5777
> > > > www.bchacc.com
> > > > www.e-z-mrp.com
> > > > Skype: rocky.smolin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > AccessD mailing list
> > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > >
> > > --
> > > AccessD mailing list
> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From jbartow at winhaven.net  Sat Aug 11 11:27:59 2018
From: jbartow at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 16:27:59 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <010901d43177$11a285c0$34e79140$@verizon.net>
References: <010901d43177$11a285c0$34e79140$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <DM5PR1101MB22019C5D2DCDF9AA851F1170D83B0@DM5PR1101MB2201.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Ditto. Nothing wrong with http sites unless their collecting info. Anyone worth their malicious intent can still set up a https site to steal your info. One of the points of anything google does is to control the environment towards its goals. I recommend that you be cynical, its justified.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of Jim Dettman
 HTTPS buys you some additional assurance that it's a "known" site at least.

 In order to get that, you need a static IP, will probably have a reverse pointer, and it proves you're in control of the DNS records that represent the site.  But still, anyone that really has nefarious intents can easily set all that up with a dummy company. So in the end, it buy's you some safety even when you are not giving information, but not all much.

 So I would agree with you in that I wouldn't think twice about visiting a site with http.  But if I have to login or send information, then absolutely I'd be looking for https.


From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Aug 11 20:51:07 2018
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 19:51:07 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <5B6E67F8.12163.8D0B21D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>
	<003701d42f25$8c2e7fa0$a48b7ee0$@bchacc.com>
	<CAJLzs_3GvTWzZ-=biFkqGo6Mj6-HiP+tQZxB_RhDihdwoWrMgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B6E67F8.12163.8D0B21D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <494431942.271580229.1534038667366.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>

Google has spoken. 

Regardless of our personal feelings, Google (along with other major internet providers) have decided that all sites without "https" will eventually be blocked from search results. For now, a danger warning will confront all those approaching a non-certified sites.

If you are asking the question "why" then all that can be replied, is God has spoken and we must obey. ;-)
 
Jim  

----- Original Message -----
From: "stuart" <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 9:37:12 PM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Website 08/06

Another one that's drunk  the Koolaid?

Why not?

On 10 Aug 2018 at 9:09, Bill Benson wrote:

> I won't even go near a site that begins with http. As opposed to
> https.
> 
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 10:40 AM Rocky Smolin <rockysmolin at bchacc.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Dear List:
> >
> > A friend of mine is working with a company to design a new website
> > for his company. Here's a link showing its development to date.
> >
> > http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/
> >
> > The copy isn't finalized yet.  He's just working on the layout,
> > appearance and navigation.
> >
> > Any feedback is welcome.
> >
> > MTIA
> >
> >
> > Rocky Smolin
> > Beach Access Software
> > 760-683-5777
> > www.bchacc.com
> > www.e-z-mrp.com
> > Skype: rocky.smolin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Aug 11 21:33:20 2018
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 20:33:20 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <CAJLzs_0P=EDQAYcqvpVS_x5LZRTnMMEO2OS6vkEXDE3S22LqiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>
	<003701d42f25$8c2e7fa0$a48b7ee0$@bchacc.com>
	<CAJLzs_3GvTWzZ-=biFkqGo6Mj6-HiP+tQZxB_RhDihdwoWrMgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B6E67F8.12163.8D0B21D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<CAJLzs_3oDLOjMW=NoYyfA89pS0RmA-88KyvRRZniaYf-j_ZVGg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0P=EDQAYcqvpVS_x5LZRTnMMEO2OS6vkEXDE3S22LqiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1210936773.271736665.1534041200696.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>

I couldn't agree with you more. Considering that a "Let's Encrypt" certificate is free: https://letsencrypt.org/

Here is a link to a tiny script to renew your certification, if you are not using your domain host provider's certication's services. It should be noted, that real men and women roll their own site certifications. ;-):

https://github.com/diafygi/acme-tiny

...and how to apply the renewal script:

https://github.com/diafygi/acme-tiny/blob/master/README.md

(this is one of dozens of scripts)

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Benson" <bensonforums at gmail.com>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:00:28 PM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Website 08/06

More info here
<https://www.blog.google/products/chrome/milestone-chrome-security-marking-http-not-secure/>
.

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:57 AM, Bill Benson <bensonforums at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Because Google says that they are unsafe, and Snopes agrees with them.
> Https is not a guarantee of safety either, but it is more safe than not.
>
> I never type in http://www... addresses. I will always add the "s". If
> the site fails to load on that basis, I can live without that site, I am
> pretty sure.
>
> https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/http-vs-https/
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:37 AM, Stuart McLachlan <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg
> > wrote:
>
>> Another one that's drunk  the Koolaid?
>>
>> Why not?
>>
>> On 10 Aug 2018 at 9:09, Bill Benson wrote:
>>
>> > I won't even go near a site that begins with http. As opposed to
>> > https.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 10:40 AM Rocky Smolin <rockysmolin at bchacc.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Dear List:
>> > >
>> > > A friend of mine is working with a company to design a new website
>> > > for his company. Here's a link showing its development to date.
>> > >
>> > > http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/
>> > >
>> > > The copy isn't finalized yet.  He's just working on the layout,
>> > > appearance and navigation.
>> > >
>> > > Any feedback is welcome.
>> > >
>> > > MTIA
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Rocky Smolin
>> > > Beach Access Software
>> > > 760-683-5777
>> > > www.bchacc.com
>> > > www.e-z-mrp.com
>> > > Skype: rocky.smolin
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > AccessD mailing list
>> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> > >
>> > --
>> > AccessD mailing list
>> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> AccessD mailing list
>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>
>
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sat Aug 11 21:50:17 2018
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 12:50:17 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <1210936773.271736665.1534041200696.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>,
	<CAJLzs_0P=EDQAYcqvpVS_x5LZRTnMMEO2OS6vkEXDE3S22LqiQ@mail.gmail.com>,
	<1210936773.271736665.1534041200696.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <5B6FA069.19998.D953375@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Have you actually done this on a shared hosting server?  If so did the host provide shell 
access to the web server (rare!) ?



On 11 Aug 2018 at 20:33, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> I couldn't agree with you more. Considering that a "Let's Encrypt"
> certificate is free: https://letsencrypt.org/
> 
> Here is a link to a tiny script to renew your certification, if you
> are not using your domain host provider's certication's services. It
> should be noted, that real men and women roll their own site
> certifications. ;-):
> 
> https://github.com/diafygi/acme-tiny
> 
> ...and how to apply the renewal script:
> 
> https://github.com/diafygi/acme-tiny/blob/master/README.md
> 
> (this is one of dozens of scripts)
> 
> Jim
> 


From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Aug 11 21:55:34 2018
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 20:55:34 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <5B6E715C.12092.8F560D3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>
	<CAJLzs_3oDLOjMW=NoYyfA89pS0RmA-88KyvRRZniaYf-j_ZVGg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJLzs_0P=EDQAYcqvpVS_x5LZRTnMMEO2OS6vkEXDE3S22LqiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B6E715C.12092.8F560D3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <1969604714.271800470.1534042534347.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>

The concern is not for your site and its contents specifically but that your uncertified site can be easily hacked and side-scripted for other uses by any script kiddie. It is the same reason we use SFTP instead of FTP.

Aside: I heard of one business who had their site hacked, re-directed and it was being used to store and distribute child-porn. They did not even find out until their ISP black-listed their site. With these techniques one Russian hacker could basically collapse the entire US democratic system, at least that is what I have been told. ;-)  

Aside: Did you get a chance to read any of the articles, I posted on "DNS fronting" via dba-tech? Its a good read.  
 
Jim 

----- Original Message -----
From: "stuart" <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:17:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Website 08/06

Yep, I've read *lots* of similar pages. 

This is always the sort of justification they use:

"This makes it easier to know whether your personal information is safe as it travels across 
the web, whether you?re checking your bank account or buying concert tickets."

When someone with a basic information site,  who is not collecting personal data,  is told that 
it is going to cost them several times more each year to pay for a dedicated IP address and 
SSL cetiificate, what do you tell them?





On 11 Aug 2018 at 1:00, Bill Benson wrote:

> More info here
> <https://www.blog.google/products/chrome/milestone-chrome-security-mar
> king-http-not-secure/> .
> 
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:57 AM, Bill Benson <bensonforums at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Because Google says that they are unsafe, and Snopes agrees with
> > them. Https is not a guarantee of safety either, but it is more safe
> > than not.
> >
> > I never type in http://www... addresses. I will always add the "s".
> > If the site fails to load on that basis, I can live without that
> > site, I am pretty sure.
> >
> > https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/http-vs-https/
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:37 AM, Stuart McLachlan
> > <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> Another one that's drunk  the Koolaid?
> >>
> >> Why not?
> >>
> >> On 10 Aug 2018 at 9:09, Bill Benson wrote:
> >>
> >> > I won't even go near a site that begins with http. As opposed to
> >> > https.
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 10:40 AM Rocky Smolin
> >> > <rockysmolin at bchacc.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Dear List:
> >> > >
> >> > > A friend of mine is working with a company to design a new
> >> > > website for his company. Here's a link showing its development
> >> > > to date.
> >> > >
> >> > > http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/
> >> > >
> >> > > The copy isn't finalized yet.  He's just working on the layout,
> >> > > appearance and navigation.
> >> > >
> >> > > Any feedback is welcome.
> >> > >
> >> > > MTIA
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Rocky Smolin
> >> > > Beach Access Software
> >> > > 760-683-5777
> >> > > www.bchacc.com
> >> > > www.e-z-mrp.com
> >> > > Skype: rocky.smolin
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > AccessD mailing list
> >> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >> > >
> >> > --
> >> > AccessD mailing list
> >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> AccessD mailing list
> >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>
> >
> >
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sat Aug 11 22:06:44 2018
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 13:06:44 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <1969604714.271800470.1534042534347.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>,
	<5B6E715C.12092.8F560D3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<1969604714.271800470.1534042534347.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <5B6FA444.10109.DA44292@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

A certified site can be hacked just as easily as an uncertified one. Hackers don't usually use 
http / https to place malicious code on a website.

SFT v SFTP is an entirely different issue.

On 11 Aug 2018 at 20:55, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> The concern is not for your site and its contents specifically but
> that your uncertified site can be easily hacked and side-scripted for
> other uses by any script kiddie. It is the same reason we use SFTP
> instead of FTP.
> 
> Aside: I heard of one business who had their site hacked, re-directed
> and it was being used to store and distribute child-porn. They did not
> even find out until their ISP black-listed their site. With these
> techniques one Russian hacker could basically collapse the entire US
> democratic system, at least that is what I have been told. ;-)  
> 
> Aside: Did you get a chance to read any of the articles, I posted on
> "DNS fronting" via dba-tech? Its a good read.  
> 
> Jim 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "stuart" <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg>
> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving"
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:17:16
> PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Website 08/06
> 
> Yep, I've read *lots* of similar pages. 
> 
> This is always the sort of justification they use:
> 
> "This makes it easier to know whether your personal information is
> safe as it travels across the web, whether you?re checking your bank
> account or buying concert tickets."
> 
> When someone with a basic information site,  who is not collecting
> personal data,  is told that it is going to cost them several times
> more each year to pay for a dedicated IP address and SSL cetiificate,
> what do you tell them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 11 Aug 2018 at 1:00, Bill Benson wrote:
> 
> > More info here
> > <https://www.blog.google/products/chrome/milestone-chrome-security-m
> > ar king-http-not-secure/> .
> > 
> > On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:57 AM, Bill Benson
> > <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Because Google says that they are unsafe, and Snopes agrees with
> > > them. Https is not a guarantee of safety either, but it is more
> > > safe than not.
> > >
> > > I never type in http://www... addresses. I will always add the
> > > "s". If the site fails to load on that basis, I can live without
> > > that site, I am pretty sure.
> > >
> > > https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/http-vs-https/
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:37 AM, Stuart McLachlan
> > > <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Another one that's drunk  the Koolaid?
> > >>
> > >> Why not?
> > >>
> > >> On 10 Aug 2018 at 9:09, Bill Benson wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > I won't even go near a site that begins with http. As opposed
> > >> > to https.
> > >> >
> > >> > On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 10:40 AM Rocky Smolin
> > >> > <rockysmolin at bchacc.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Dear List:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > A friend of mine is working with a company to design a new
> > >> > > website for his company. Here's a link showing its
> > >> > > development to date.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The copy isn't finalized yet.  He's just working on the
> > >> > > layout, appearance and navigation.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Any feedback is welcome.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > MTIA
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Rocky Smolin
> > >> > > Beach Access Software
> > >> > > 760-683-5777
> > >> > > www.bchacc.com
> > >> > > www.e-z-mrp.com
> > >> > > Skype: rocky.smolin
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > --
> > >> > > AccessD mailing list
> > >> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > >> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >> > >
> > >> > --
> > >> > AccessD mailing list
> > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> AccessD mailing list
> > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > -- 
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Aug 11 22:27:07 2018
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 21:27:07 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <010901d43177$11a285c0$34e79140$@verizon.net>
References: <010901d43177$11a285c0$34e79140$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <1627723549.271917827.1534044427402.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>

Agreed.

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Dettman" <jimdettman at verizon.net>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2018 6:27:36 AM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Website 08/06

HTTPS buys you some additional assurance that it's a "known" site at least.

 In order to get that, you need a static IP, will probably have a reverse
pointer, and it proves you're in control of the DNS records that represent
the site.  But still, anyone that really has nefarious intents can easily
set all that up with a dummy company. So in the end, it buy's you some
safety even when you are not giving information, but not all much.

 So I would agree with you in that I wouldn't think twice about visiting a
site with http.  But if I have to login or send information, then absolutely
I'd be looking for https.

 What would be most critical though is that I have some good anti-virus
checking the sites I'm visiting, whether their HTTP or HTTPS.  

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2018 1:09 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Website 08/06

So what are you secruing/protecting when you visit an information site that
is not collecting 
your details.

What exactly is the risk in going to http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/


On 11 Aug 2018 at 0:57, Bill Benson wrote:

> Because Google says that they are unsafe, and Snopes agrees with them.
> Https is not a guarantee of safety either, but it is more safe than
> not.
> 
> I never type in http://www... addresses. I will always add the "s". If
> the site fails to load on that basis, I can live without that site, I
> am pretty sure.
> 
> https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/http-vs-https/
> 
> 
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:37 AM, Stuart McLachlan
> <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg> wrote:
> 
> > Another one that's drunk  the Koolaid?
> >
> > Why not?
> >
> > On 10 Aug 2018 at 9:09, Bill Benson wrote:
> >
> > > I won't even go near a site that begins with http. As opposed to
> > > https.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 10:40 AM Rocky Smolin
> > > <rockysmolin at bchacc.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear List:
> > > >
> > > > A friend of mine is working with a company to design a new
> > > > website for his company. Here's a link showing its development
> > > > to date.
> > > >
> > > > http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/
> > > >
> > > > The copy isn't finalized yet.  He's just working on the layout,
> > > > appearance and navigation.
> > > >
> > > > Any feedback is welcome.
> > > >
> > > > MTIA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Rocky Smolin
> > > > Beach Access Software
> > > > 760-683-5777
> > > > www.bchacc.com
> > > > www.e-z-mrp.com
> > > > Skype: rocky.smolin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > AccessD mailing list
> > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > >
> > > --
> > > AccessD mailing list
> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Aug 11 23:56:34 2018
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 22:56:34 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <5B6FA069.19998.D953375@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>
	<CAJLzs_0P=EDQAYcqvpVS_x5LZRTnMMEO2OS6vkEXDE3S22LqiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1210936773.271736665.1534041200696.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
	<5B6FA069.19998.D953375@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <117845787.272182077.1534049794339.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>

Yes, I did. For example; with my daughter, last winter, she transferred her site from local hosting to a free Google service. At the time we put the site together, they did not have the direct connection available and forwarding had to be used...among a host of other standards. I understand they do now so I guess we should get busy...she is coming here in September so we will upgrade it then. (https://sites.google.com):

https://sites.google.com/view/kflamenco/  <--- https is free as well as a drag and drop website builder. Built the web site in less than two days having never worked with it before. Anyone can use their services for free and they now have JavaScript, CSS and extended database features: Here is one database feature that was already installed:

https://sites.google.com/view/kflamenco/blog  <-- Just select subscribe or post comments.

Aside: I only use a host for the domain name, the rest of the name, mail, forwarding services etc is run through https://www.zoneedit.com/ (highly recommend this company...they give services for two domains, for free and unlimited subnets per domain)

...and what appears to be a basic site, for a friend...behind the simple facade is number of client servers and a client over-night backup services (built the backup service myself...a single rsync line of code per server and a cron job to initiate it all...simple, basic and functional.:

https://www.continuum.ca/

Jim   

----- Original Message -----
From: "stuart" <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2018 7:50:17 PM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Website 08/06

Have you actually done this on a shared hosting server?  If so did the host provide shell 
access to the web server (rare!) ?



On 11 Aug 2018 at 20:33, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> I couldn't agree with you more. Considering that a "Let's Encrypt"
> certificate is free: https://letsencrypt.org/
> 
> Here is a link to a tiny script to renew your certification, if you
> are not using your domain host provider's certication's services. It
> should be noted, that real men and women roll their own site
> certifications. ;-):
> 
> https://github.com/diafygi/acme-tiny
> 
> ...and how to apply the renewal script:
> 
> https://github.com/diafygi/acme-tiny/blob/master/README.md
> 
> (this is one of dozens of scripts)
> 
> Jim
> 

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From accessd at shaw.ca  Sun Aug 12 01:15:51 2018
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 00:15:51 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [AccessD] Website 08/06
In-Reply-To: <5B6FA444.10109.DA44292@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <EC63C8EC-2982-4D3B-9DAF-09CFF2DED82D@burlinggroup.com>
	<5B6E715C.12092.8F560D3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<1969604714.271800470.1534042534347.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
	<5B6FA444.10109.DA44292@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <752495578.272485266.1534054551524.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>

Quote:

"https indicates that the website is protected by Secure Socket Layer/Transport Layer Security. Data sent between you and the website is encrypted so the information is private, and that the website is identified to be who it claims to be. Just like how you verify your identity (by means of username and password, and other information they may ask for such as in two-factor authentication), the website needs to as well. The website proves it is operated by its true owners by showing a security certificate to your Internet browser, which then indicates to you that the site is legitimate with the lock symbol."

The main reason for certification is that it can encrypt communications between the client and host...so no side-channel hacking. There is no ability to hijack internet traffic between the client and host and inject malware remotely. In theory the communications can also guarantee that the client has actually reached the site they intended to...and they have not been re-directed to a false site. One common practice is to hack an original site and place code that re-directs the client to a dummy site...this type of transaction will not work on a https certified site without the user being blocked or warned.

Jim 

----- Original Message -----
From: "stuart" <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2018 8:06:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Website 08/06

A certified site can be hacked just as easily as an uncertified one. Hackers don't usually use 
http / https to place malicious code on a website.

SFT v SFTP is an entirely different issue.

On 11 Aug 2018 at 20:55, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> The concern is not for your site and its contents specifically but
> that your uncertified site can be easily hacked and side-scripted for
> other uses by any script kiddie. It is the same reason we use SFTP
> instead of FTP.
> 
> Aside: I heard of one business who had their site hacked, re-directed
> and it was being used to store and distribute child-porn. They did not
> even find out until their ISP black-listed their site. With these
> techniques one Russian hacker could basically collapse the entire US
> democratic system, at least that is what I have been told. ;-)  
> 
> Aside: Did you get a chance to read any of the articles, I posted on
> "DNS fronting" via dba-tech? Its a good read.  
> 
> Jim 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "stuart" <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg>
> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving"
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:17:16
> PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Website 08/06
> 
> Yep, I've read *lots* of similar pages. 
> 
> This is always the sort of justification they use:
> 
> "This makes it easier to know whether your personal information is
> safe as it travels across the web, whether you?re checking your bank
> account or buying concert tickets."
> 
> When someone with a basic information site,  who is not collecting
> personal data,  is told that it is going to cost them several times
> more each year to pay for a dedicated IP address and SSL cetiificate,
> what do you tell them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 11 Aug 2018 at 1:00, Bill Benson wrote:
> 
> > More info here
> > <https://www.blog.google/products/chrome/milestone-chrome-security-m
> > ar king-http-not-secure/> .
> > 
> > On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:57 AM, Bill Benson
> > <bensonforums at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Because Google says that they are unsafe, and Snopes agrees with
> > > them. Https is not a guarantee of safety either, but it is more
> > > safe than not.
> > >
> > > I never type in http://www... addresses. I will always add the
> > > "s". If the site fails to load on that basis, I can live without
> > > that site, I am pretty sure.
> > >
> > > https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/http-vs-https/
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:37 AM, Stuart McLachlan
> > > <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Another one that's drunk  the Koolaid?
> > >>
> > >> Why not?
> > >>
> > >> On 10 Aug 2018 at 9:09, Bill Benson wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > I won't even go near a site that begins with http. As opposed
> > >> > to https.
> > >> >
> > >> > On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 10:40 AM Rocky Smolin
> > >> > <rockysmolin at bchacc.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Dear List:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > A friend of mine is working with a company to design a new
> > >> > > website for his company. Here's a link showing its
> > >> > > development to date.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > http://000m6c1.myregisteredwp.com/
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The copy isn't finalized yet.  He's just working on the
> > >> > > layout, appearance and navigation.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Any feedback is welcome.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > MTIA
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Rocky Smolin
> > >> > > Beach Access Software
> > >> > > 760-683-5777
> > >> > > www.bchacc.com
> > >> > > www.e-z-mrp.com
> > >> > > Skype: rocky.smolin
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > --
> > >> > > AccessD mailing list
> > >> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > >> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > >> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >> > >
> > >> > --
> > >> > AccessD mailing list
> > >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> AccessD mailing list
> > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > -- 
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



-- 
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AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From kost36 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 12 03:49:43 2018
From: kost36 at gmail.com (Kostas Konstantinidis)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 11:49:43 +0300
Subject: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
Message-ID: <023401d43219$6b0296d0$4107c470$@gmail.com>

Dear people,
In a query I use 

ID_DIR: (IIf(IsNull([International Title]);[original title];[International
Title])+Chr(13)+Chr(10)) & (IIf(IsNull([director]);"";("Directed by: " &
[director])+Chr(13)+Chr(10))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]);"";"Tel:
"+([DIR_TEL]) + Chr(13)+Chr(10))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]);"";("e-mail: " &
[DIR_MAIL])))

The problem is that if any of [Director], [DIR_TEL[ or [DIR_MAIL] fields are
null it always returns a blank line to the end

Could you please help?

Thank's
/kostas


From paul.hartland at googlemail.com  Sun Aug 12 03:59:44 2018
From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 09:59:44 +0100
Subject: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
In-Reply-To: <023401d43219$6b0296d0$4107c470$@gmail.com>
References: <023401d43219$6b0296d0$4107c470$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALGJE94fvwLT6uRH1wJC3uV3FSd1QVVfGd7RDqEBS8rQ+L9jTw@mail.gmail.com>

You could try moving the chr statements

(IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]);""; Chr(13)+Chr(10)+ "Tel:
"+([DIR_TEL]))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]);"";("e-mail: " &
[DIR_MAIL])))



On Sun, 12 Aug 2018, 09:50 Kostas Konstantinidis, <kost36 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear people,
> In a query I use
>
> ID_DIR: (IIf(IsNull([International Title]);[original title];[International
> Title])+Chr(13)+Chr(10)) & (IIf(IsNull([director]);"";("Directed by: " &
> [director])+Chr(13)+Chr(10))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]);"";"Tel:
> "+([DIR_TEL]) + Chr(13)+Chr(10))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]);"";("e-mail: "
> &
> [DIR_MAIL])))
>
> The problem is that if any of [Director], [DIR_TEL[ or [DIR_MAIL] fields
> are
> null it always returns a blank line to the end
>
> Could you please help?
>
> Thank's
> /kostas
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From kost36 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 12 04:21:16 2018
From: kost36 at gmail.com (Kostas Konstantinidis)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 12:21:16 +0300
Subject: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
In-Reply-To: <CALGJE94fvwLT6uRH1wJC3uV3FSd1QVVfGd7RDqEBS8rQ+L9jTw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <023401d43219$6b0296d0$4107c470$@gmail.com>
	<CALGJE94fvwLT6uRH1wJC3uV3FSd1QVVfGd7RDqEBS8rQ+L9jTw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <023901d4321d$d3b8a1c0$7b29e540$@gmail.com>

Thank's Paul 
But now it leaves a blank line at the top of the field and the concat
doesn't work while there is not Chr(13)+Chr(10) between Tel and e-mail

The result is
BLANK LINE
Tel: +4369917273854e-mail: jpz at gmx.at


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of Paul
Hartland via AccessD
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 12:00 PM
To: Access List <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Cc: Paul Hartland <paul.hartland at googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blank line after concat

You could try moving the chr statements

(IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]);""; Chr(13)+Chr(10)+ "Tel:
"+([DIR_TEL]))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]);"";("e-mail: " &
[DIR_MAIL])))



On Sun, 12 Aug 2018, 09:50 Kostas Konstantinidis, <kost36 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear people,
> In a query I use
>
> ID_DIR: (IIf(IsNull([International Title]);[original 
> title];[International
> Title])+Chr(13)+Chr(10)) & (IIf(IsNull([director]);"";("Directed by: " 
> &
> [director])+Chr(13)+Chr(10))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]);"";"Tel:
> "+([DIR_TEL]) + Chr(13)+Chr(10))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]);"";("e-mail: "
> &
> [DIR_MAIL])))
>
> The problem is that if any of [Director], [DIR_TEL[ or [DIR_MAIL] 
> fields are null it always returns a blank line to the end
>
> Could you please help?
>
> Thank's
> /kostas
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
--
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AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From paul.hartland at googlemail.com  Sun Aug 12 04:26:26 2018
From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 10:26:26 +0100
Subject: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
In-Reply-To: <023901d4321d$d3b8a1c0$7b29e540$@gmail.com>
References: <023401d43219$6b0296d0$4107c470$@gmail.com>
	<CALGJE94fvwLT6uRH1wJC3uV3FSd1QVVfGd7RDqEBS8rQ+L9jTw@mail.gmail.com>
	<023901d4321d$d3b8a1c0$7b29e540$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALGJE94TgwdEmEO2bJt1KF9Hkfbcv9FwzG+64Zge1JYggMah1A@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry that was just a quick example, try moving the chr commands to before
all the fields etc, if I get near a laptop today will send an example but I
doubt it, it was really just to give you an idea

Paul

On Sun, 12 Aug 2018, 10:22 Kostas Konstantinidis, <kost36 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank's Paul
> But now it leaves a blank line at the top of the field and the concat
> doesn't work while there is not Chr(13)+Chr(10) between Tel and e-mail
>
> The result is
> BLANK LINE
> Tel: +4369917273854e-mail: jpz at gmx.at
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of Paul
> Hartland via AccessD
> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 12:00 PM
> To: Access List <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Cc: Paul Hartland <paul.hartland at googlemail.com>
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
>
> You could try moving the chr statements
>
> (IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]);""; Chr(13)+Chr(10)+ "Tel:
> "+([DIR_TEL]))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]);"";("e-mail: " &
> [DIR_MAIL])))
>
>
>
> On Sun, 12 Aug 2018, 09:50 Kostas Konstantinidis, <kost36 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear people,
> > In a query I use
> >
> > ID_DIR: (IIf(IsNull([International Title]);[original
> > title];[International
> > Title])+Chr(13)+Chr(10)) & (IIf(IsNull([director]);"";("Directed by: "
> > &
> > [director])+Chr(13)+Chr(10))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]);"";"Tel:
> > "+([DIR_TEL]) + Chr(13)+Chr(10))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]);"";("e-mail:
> "
> > &
> > [DIR_MAIL])))
> >
> > The problem is that if any of [Director], [DIR_TEL[ or [DIR_MAIL]
> > fields are null it always returns a blank line to the end
> >
> > Could you please help?
> >
> > Thank's
> > /kostas
> >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sun Aug 12 04:38:17 2018
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 19:38:17 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
In-Reply-To: <023401d43219$6b0296d0$4107c470$@gmail.com>
References: <023401d43219$6b0296d0$4107c470$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B700009.31869.F0ABE0F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Get rid of the + and just use &.  Those two operators work differently with Nulls.

? "A" & Null  & "B"
returns "AB"

? "A" + Null + "B"
returns Null


On 12 Aug 2018 at 11:49, Kostas Konstantinidis wrote:

> Dear people,
> In a query I use 
> 
> ID_DIR: (IIf(IsNull([International Title]);[original
> title];[International Title])+Chr(13)+Chr(10)) &
> (IIf(IsNull([director]);"";("Directed by: " &
> [director])+Chr(13)+Chr(10))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]);"";"Tel:
> "+([DIR_TEL]) + Chr(13)+Chr(10))) &
> (IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]);"";("e-mail: " & [DIR_MAIL])))
> 
> The problem is that if any of [Director], [DIR_TEL[ or [DIR_MAIL]
> fields are null it always returns a blank line to the end
> 
> Could you please help?
> 
> Thank's
> /kostas
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From kost36 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 12 05:05:18 2018
From: kost36 at gmail.com (Kostas Konstantinidis)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 13:05:18 +0300
Subject: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
In-Reply-To: <5B700009.31869.F0ABE0F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <023401d43219$6b0296d0$4107c470$@gmail.com>
	<5B700009.31869.F0ABE0F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <025001d43223$fa4950e0$eedbf2a0$@gmail.com>

Hi Stuart,
I have already tried both "&" and "+" 


-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of Stuart
McLachlan
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 12:38 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blank line after concat

Get rid of the + and just use &.  Those two operators work differently with
Nulls.

? "A" & Null  & "B"
returns "AB"

? "A" + Null + "B"
returns Null


On 12 Aug 2018 at 11:49, Kostas Konstantinidis wrote:

> Dear people,
> In a query I use
> 
> ID_DIR: (IIf(IsNull([International Title]);[original 
> title];[International Title])+Chr(13)+Chr(10)) & 
> (IIf(IsNull([director]);"";("Directed by: " &
> [director])+Chr(13)+Chr(10))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]);"";"Tel:
> "+([DIR_TEL]) + Chr(13)+Chr(10))) &
> (IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]);"";("e-mail: " & [DIR_MAIL])))
> 
> The problem is that if any of [Director], [DIR_TEL[ or [DIR_MAIL] 
> fields are null it always returns a blank line to the end
> 
> Could you please help?
> 
> Thank's
> /kostas
> 
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


-- 
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http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
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From jackandpat.d at gmail.com  Sun Aug 12 07:49:05 2018
From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 08:49:05 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
In-Reply-To: <025001d43223$fa4950e0$eedbf2a0$@gmail.com>
References: <023401d43219$6b0296d0$4107c470$@gmail.com>
	<5B700009.31869.F0ABE0F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<025001d43223$fa4950e0$eedbf2a0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKvidAswzPHjZkkPmFB4UwXLYRkbanrmxC9x227ZGobt_-Jokw@mail.gmail.com>

Kostas,
Here is an attempt. My default delimiter is comma(,) not semicolon(;), so I
have adjusted the sql and used some tet data as below.
Hope it arrives without too much weird formatting and that it is helpful to
you.

*Kostas*
id International Title original title director DIR_TEL DIR_MAIL
1 InterAgent Agent Bob Loblaw 6132784623 bob at gmail.com
2
Chairman
6132784623 robert at gmail.net
3 Intl Chief
Brian G
d at cox.net
4
Regular Ron Old Roy 2556791234
5 Vicepresidente internacional Leon Gomez Mikel Hernandez
mhernandez at swiftnet.org

My SQL:

SELECT Kostas.id
, IIf(IsNull([International Title]),[original title],[International Title])
 & Chr(13) & Chr(10) &
IIf(IsNull([director]),"",("Directed by: " &[director])
 & Chr(13) & Chr(10)) &
IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]),"","Tel:"  &[DIR_TEL]
& Chr(13)& Chr(10)) &
IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]),"",("e-mail: " &
[DIR_MAIL]))
 AS ID_DIR
FROM kostas;

Gives Result

*qkostas*
id ID_DIR
1 InterAgent
Directed by: Bob Loblaw
Tel:6132784623
e-mail: bob at gmail.com
2 Chairman
Tel:6132784623
e-mail: robert at gmail.net
3 Intl Chief
Directed by: Brian G
e-mail: d at cox.net
4 Regular Ron
Directed by: Old Roy
Tel:2556791234
5 Vicepresidente internacional
Directed by: Mikel Hernandez
e-mail: mhernandez at swiftnet.org


>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of Stuart
> McLachlan
> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 12:38 PM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
>
> Get rid of the + and just use &.  Those two operators work differently with
> Nulls.
>
> ? "A" & Null  & "B"
> returns "AB"
>
> ? "A" + Null + "B"
> returns Null
>
>
> On 12 Aug 2018 at 11:49, Kostas Konstantinidis wrote:
>
> > Dear people,
> > In a query I use
> >
> > ID_DIR: (IIf(IsNull([International Title]);[original
> > title];[International Title])+Chr(13)+Chr(10)) &
> > (IIf(IsNull([director]);"";("Directed by: " &
> > [director])+Chr(13)+Chr(10))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]);"";"Tel:
> > "+([DIR_TEL]) + Chr(13)+Chr(10))) &
> > (IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]);"";("e-mail: " & [DIR_MAIL])))
> >
> > The problem is that if any of [Director], [DIR_TEL[ or [DIR_MAIL]
> > fields are null it always returns a blank line to the end
> >
> > Could you please help?
> >
> > Thank's
> > /kostas
> >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From kost36 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 12 09:08:08 2018
From: kost36 at gmail.com (Kostas Konstantinidis)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 17:08:08 +0300
Subject: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
In-Reply-To: <CAKvidAswzPHjZkkPmFB4UwXLYRkbanrmxC9x227ZGobt_-Jokw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <023401d43219$6b0296d0$4107c470$@gmail.com>	<5B700009.31869.F0ABE0F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>	<025001d43223$fa4950e0$eedbf2a0$@gmail.com>
	<CAKvidAswzPHjZkkPmFB4UwXLYRkbanrmxC9x227ZGobt_-Jokw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <025c01d43245$e6cdb480$b4691d80$@gmail.com>

Dear Jack,
It's the same I am trying to make it to work on
Look more carefully to the 4th record

e-mail field is null
and there is a blank line to the end

Thank's for your time

/kostas

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of jack
drawbridge
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 3:49 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blank line after concat

Kostas,
Here is an attempt. My default delimiter is comma(,) not semicolon(;), so I
have adjusted the sql and used some tet data as below.
Hope it arrives without too much weird formatting and that it is helpful to
you.

*Kostas*
id International Title original title director DIR_TEL DIR_MAIL
1 InterAgent Agent Bob Loblaw 6132784623 bob at gmail.com
2
Chairman
6132784623 robert at gmail.net
3 Intl Chief
Brian G
d at cox.net
4
Regular Ron Old Roy 2556791234
5 Vicepresidente internacional Leon Gomez Mikel Hernandez
mhernandez at swiftnet.org

My SQL:

SELECT Kostas.id
, IIf(IsNull([International Title]),[original title],[International Title])
& Chr(13) & Chr(10) & IIf(IsNull([director]),"",("Directed by: "
&[director])  & Chr(13) & Chr(10)) & IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]),"","Tel:"
&[DIR_TEL] & Chr(13)& Chr(10)) &
IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]),"",("e-mail: " &
[DIR_MAIL]))
 AS ID_DIR
FROM kostas;

Gives Result

*qkostas*
id ID_DIR
1 InterAgent
Directed by: Bob Loblaw
Tel:6132784623
e-mail: bob at gmail.com
2 Chairman
Tel:6132784623
e-mail: robert at gmail.net
3 Intl Chief
Directed by: Brian G
e-mail: d at cox.net
4 Regular Ron
Directed by: Old Roy
Tel:2556791234
5 Vicepresidente internacional
Directed by: Mikel Hernandez
e-mail: mhernandez at swiftnet.org


>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of 
> Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 12:38 PM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving 
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
>
> Get rid of the + and just use &.  Those two operators work differently 
> with Nulls.
>
> ? "A" & Null  & "B"
> returns "AB"
>
> ? "A" + Null + "B"
> returns Null
>
>
> On 12 Aug 2018 at 11:49, Kostas Konstantinidis wrote:
>
> > Dear people,
> > In a query I use
> >
> > ID_DIR: (IIf(IsNull([International Title]);[original 
> > title];[International Title])+Chr(13)+Chr(10)) & 
> > (IIf(IsNull([director]);"";("Directed by: " &
> > [director])+Chr(13)+Chr(10))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]);"";"Tel:
> > "+([DIR_TEL]) + Chr(13)+Chr(10))) &
> > (IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]);"";("e-mail: " & [DIR_MAIL])))
> >
> > The problem is that if any of [Director], [DIR_TEL[ or [DIR_MAIL] 
> > fields are null it always returns a blank line to the end
> >
> > Could you please help?
> >
> > Thank's
> > /kostas
> >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
--
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From jackandpat.d at gmail.com  Sun Aug 12 10:02:54 2018
From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 11:02:54 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
In-Reply-To: <025c01d43245$e6cdb480$b4691d80$@gmail.com>
References: <023401d43219$6b0296d0$4107c470$@gmail.com>
	<5B700009.31869.F0ABE0F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<025001d43223$fa4950e0$eedbf2a0$@gmail.com>
	<CAKvidAswzPHjZkkPmFB4UwXLYRkbanrmxC9x227ZGobt_-Jokw@mail.gmail.com>
	<025c01d43245$e6cdb480$b4691d80$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKvidAtGZYC26i10QgdoenzVAApB6s=M8Uaq7PB-+aJma0Th1w@mail.gmail.com>

Try this one

SELECT Kostas.id
, IIf(IsNull([International Title]),[original title],[International Title])
 &
IIf(IsNull([director]),"",Chr(13) & Chr(10) & "Directed by: " &[director])
  &
IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]),"",  Chr(13) & Chr(10) & "Tel:"  &[DIR_TEL]
) &
IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]),"", Chr(13)& Chr(10)& "e-mail: " &
[DIR_MAIL])
 AS ID_DIR
FROM kostas;

On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Kostas Konstantinidis <kost36 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Jack,
> It's the same I am trying to make it to work on
> Look more carefully to the 4th record
>
> e-mail field is null
> and there is a blank line to the end
>
> Thank's for your time
>
> /kostas
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of jack
> drawbridge
> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 3:49 PM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
>
> Kostas,
> Here is an attempt. My default delimiter is comma(,) not semicolon(;), so I
> have adjusted the sql and used some tet data as below.
> Hope it arrives without too much weird formatting and that it is helpful to
> you.
>
> *Kostas*
> id International Title original title director DIR_TEL DIR_MAIL
> 1 InterAgent Agent Bob Loblaw 6132784623 bob at gmail.com
> 2
> Chairman
> 6132784623 robert at gmail.net
> 3 Intl Chief
> Brian G
> d at cox.net
> 4
> Regular Ron Old Roy 2556791234
> 5 Vicepresidente internacional Leon Gomez Mikel Hernandez
> mhernandez at swiftnet.org
>
> My SQL:
>
> SELECT Kostas.id
> , IIf(IsNull([International Title]),[original title],[International Title])
> & Chr(13) & Chr(10) & IIf(IsNull([director]),"",("Directed by: "
> &[director])  & Chr(13) & Chr(10)) & IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]),"","Tel:"
> &[DIR_TEL] & Chr(13)& Chr(10)) &
> IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]),"",("e-mail: " &
> [DIR_MAIL]))
>  AS ID_DIR
> FROM kostas;
>
> Gives Result
>
> *qkostas*
> id ID_DIR
> 1 InterAgent
> Directed by: Bob Loblaw
> Tel:6132784623
> e-mail: bob at gmail.com
> 2 Chairman
> Tel:6132784623
> e-mail: robert at gmail.net
> 3 Intl Chief
> Directed by: Brian G
> e-mail: d at cox.net
> 4 Regular Ron
> Directed by: Old Roy
> Tel:2556791234
> 5 Vicepresidente internacional
> Directed by: Mikel Hernandez
> e-mail: mhernandez at swiftnet.org
>
>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of
> > Stuart McLachlan
> > Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 12:38 PM
> > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
> >
> > Get rid of the + and just use &.  Those two operators work differently
> > with Nulls.
> >
> > ? "A" & Null  & "B"
> > returns "AB"
> >
> > ? "A" + Null + "B"
> > returns Null
> >
> >
> > On 12 Aug 2018 at 11:49, Kostas Konstantinidis wrote:
> >
> > > Dear people,
> > > In a query I use
> > >
> > > ID_DIR: (IIf(IsNull([International Title]);[original
> > > title];[International Title])+Chr(13)+Chr(10)) &
> > > (IIf(IsNull([director]);"";("Directed by: " &
> > > [director])+Chr(13)+Chr(10))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]);"";"Tel:
> > > "+([DIR_TEL]) + Chr(13)+Chr(10))) &
> > > (IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]);"";("e-mail: " & [DIR_MAIL])))
> > >
> > > The problem is that if any of [Director], [DIR_TEL[ or [DIR_MAIL]
> > > fields are null it always returns a blank line to the end
> > >
> > > Could you please help?
> > >
> > > Thank's
> > > /kostas
> > >
> > > --
> > > AccessD mailing list
> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From kost36 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 12 10:24:09 2018
From: kost36 at gmail.com (Kostas Konstantinidis)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 18:24:09 +0300
Subject: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
In-Reply-To: <CAKvidAtGZYC26i10QgdoenzVAApB6s=M8Uaq7PB-+aJma0Th1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <023401d43219$6b0296d0$4107c470$@gmail.com>	<5B700009.31869.F0ABE0F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>	<025001d43223$fa4950e0$eedbf2a0$@gmail.com>	<CAKvidAswzPHjZkkPmFB4UwXLYRkbanrmxC9x227ZGobt_-Jokw@mail.gmail.com>	<025c01d43245$e6cdb480$b4691d80$@gmail.com>
	<CAKvidAtGZYC26i10QgdoenzVAApB6s=M8Uaq7PB-+aJma0Th1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001801d43250$84eb69a0$8ec23ce0$@gmail.com>

Great,
That works

Many thank's

-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of jack
drawbridge
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 6:03 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blank line after concat

Try this one

SELECT Kostas.id
, IIf(IsNull([International Title]),[original title],[International Title])
&
IIf(IsNull([director]),"",Chr(13) & Chr(10) & "Directed by: " &[director])
  &
IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]),"",  Chr(13) & Chr(10) & "Tel:"  &[DIR_TEL]
) &
IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]),"", Chr(13)& Chr(10)& "e-mail: " &
[DIR_MAIL])
 AS ID_DIR
FROM kostas;

On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Kostas Konstantinidis <kost36 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Jack,
> It's the same I am trying to make it to work on Look more carefully to 
> the 4th record
>
> e-mail field is null
> and there is a blank line to the end
>
> Thank's for your time
>
> /kostas
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of jack 
> drawbridge
> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 3:49 PM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving 
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
>
> Kostas,
> Here is an attempt. My default delimiter is comma(,) not semicolon(;), 
> so I have adjusted the sql and used some tet data as below.
> Hope it arrives without too much weird formatting and that it is 
> helpful to you.
>
> *Kostas*
> id International Title original title director DIR_TEL DIR_MAIL
> 1 InterAgent Agent Bob Loblaw 6132784623 bob at gmail.com
> 2
> Chairman
> 6132784623 robert at gmail.net
> 3 Intl Chief
> Brian G
> d at cox.net
> 4
> Regular Ron Old Roy 2556791234
> 5 Vicepresidente internacional Leon Gomez Mikel Hernandez 
> mhernandez at swiftnet.org
>
> My SQL:
>
> SELECT Kostas.id
> , IIf(IsNull([International Title]),[original title],[International 
> Title]) & Chr(13) & Chr(10) & IIf(IsNull([director]),"",("Directed by: "
> &[director])  & Chr(13) & Chr(10)) & IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]),"","Tel:"
> &[DIR_TEL] & Chr(13)& Chr(10)) &
> IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]),"",("e-mail: " &
> [DIR_MAIL]))
>  AS ID_DIR
> FROM kostas;
>
> Gives Result
>
> *qkostas*
> id ID_DIR
> 1 InterAgent
> Directed by: Bob Loblaw
> Tel:6132784623
> e-mail: bob at gmail.com
> 2 Chairman
> Tel:6132784623
> e-mail: robert at gmail.net
> 3 Intl Chief
> Directed by: Brian G
> e-mail: d at cox.net
> 4 Regular Ron
> Directed by: Old Roy
> Tel:2556791234
> 5 Vicepresidente internacional
> Directed by: Mikel Hernandez
> e-mail: mhernandez at swiftnet.org
>
>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of 
> > Stuart McLachlan
> > Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 12:38 PM
> > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving 
> > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
> >
> > Get rid of the + and just use &.  Those two operators work 
> > differently with Nulls.
> >
> > ? "A" & Null  & "B"
> > returns "AB"
> >
> > ? "A" + Null + "B"
> > returns Null
> >
> >
> > On 12 Aug 2018 at 11:49, Kostas Konstantinidis wrote:
> >
> > > Dear people,
> > > In a query I use
> > >
> > > ID_DIR: (IIf(IsNull([International Title]);[original 
> > > title];[International Title])+Chr(13)+Chr(10)) & 
> > > (IIf(IsNull([director]);"";("Directed by: " &
> > > [director])+Chr(13)+Chr(10))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]);"";"Tel:
> > > "+([DIR_TEL]) + Chr(13)+Chr(10))) &
> > > (IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]);"";("e-mail: " & [DIR_MAIL])))
> > >
> > > The problem is that if any of [Director], [DIR_TEL[ or [DIR_MAIL] 
> > > fields are null it always returns a blank line to the end
> > >
> > > Could you please help?
> > >
> > > Thank's
> > > /kostas
> > >
> > > --
> > > AccessD mailing list
> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
--
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From jackandpat.d at gmail.com  Sun Aug 12 10:27:51 2018
From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 11:27:51 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
In-Reply-To: <001801d43250$84eb69a0$8ec23ce0$@gmail.com>
References: <023401d43219$6b0296d0$4107c470$@gmail.com>
	<5B700009.31869.F0ABE0F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<025001d43223$fa4950e0$eedbf2a0$@gmail.com>
	<CAKvidAswzPHjZkkPmFB4UwXLYRkbanrmxC9x227ZGobt_-Jokw@mail.gmail.com>
	<025c01d43245$e6cdb480$b4691d80$@gmail.com>
	<CAKvidAtGZYC26i10QgdoenzVAApB6s=M8Uaq7PB-+aJma0Th1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<001801d43250$84eb69a0$8ec23ce0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKvidAtHEUhC9Tgq5rtnO-mB0pRBVv=CfBqF8G0XxbyhsCRLKA@mail.gmail.com>

You are welcome. Happy to help.

On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 11:24 AM, Kostas Konstantinidis <kost36 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Great,
> That works
>
> Many thank's
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of jack
> drawbridge
> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 6:03 PM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
>
> Try this one
>
> SELECT Kostas.id
> , IIf(IsNull([International Title]),[original title],[International Title])
> &
> IIf(IsNull([director]),"",Chr(13) & Chr(10) & "Directed by: " &[director])
>   &
> IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]),"",  Chr(13) & Chr(10) & "Tel:"  &[DIR_TEL]
> ) &
> IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]),"", Chr(13)& Chr(10)& "e-mail: " &
> [DIR_MAIL])
>  AS ID_DIR
> FROM kostas;
>
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Kostas Konstantinidis <kost36 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear Jack,
> > It's the same I am trying to make it to work on Look more carefully to
> > the 4th record
> >
> > e-mail field is null
> > and there is a blank line to the end
> >
> > Thank's for your time
> >
> > /kostas
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of jack
> > drawbridge
> > Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 3:49 PM
> > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
> >
> > Kostas,
> > Here is an attempt. My default delimiter is comma(,) not semicolon(;),
> > so I have adjusted the sql and used some tet data as below.
> > Hope it arrives without too much weird formatting and that it is
> > helpful to you.
> >
> > *Kostas*
> > id International Title original title director DIR_TEL DIR_MAIL
> > 1 InterAgent Agent Bob Loblaw 6132784623 bob at gmail.com
> > 2
> > Chairman
> > 6132784623 robert at gmail.net
> > 3 Intl Chief
> > Brian G
> > d at cox.net
> > 4
> > Regular Ron Old Roy 2556791234
> > 5 Vicepresidente internacional Leon Gomez Mikel Hernandez
> > mhernandez at swiftnet.org
> >
> > My SQL:
> >
> > SELECT Kostas.id
> > , IIf(IsNull([International Title]),[original title],[International
> > Title]) & Chr(13) & Chr(10) & IIf(IsNull([director]),"",("Directed by: "
> > &[director])  & Chr(13) & Chr(10)) & IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]),"","Tel:"
> > &[DIR_TEL] & Chr(13)& Chr(10)) &
> > IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]),"",("e-mail: " &
> > [DIR_MAIL]))
> >  AS ID_DIR
> > FROM kostas;
> >
> > Gives Result
> >
> > *qkostas*
> > id ID_DIR
> > 1 InterAgent
> > Directed by: Bob Loblaw
> > Tel:6132784623
> > e-mail: bob at gmail.com
> > 2 Chairman
> > Tel:6132784623
> > e-mail: robert at gmail.net
> > 3 Intl Chief
> > Directed by: Brian G
> > e-mail: d at cox.net
> > 4 Regular Ron
> > Directed by: Old Roy
> > Tel:2556791234
> > 5 Vicepresidente internacional
> > Directed by: Mikel Hernandez
> > e-mail: mhernandez at swiftnet.org
> >
> >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of
> > > Stuart McLachlan
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 12:38 PM
> > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> > > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Blank line after concat
> > >
> > > Get rid of the + and just use &.  Those two operators work
> > > differently with Nulls.
> > >
> > > ? "A" & Null  & "B"
> > > returns "AB"
> > >
> > > ? "A" + Null + "B"
> > > returns Null
> > >
> > >
> > > On 12 Aug 2018 at 11:49, Kostas Konstantinidis wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear people,
> > > > In a query I use
> > > >
> > > > ID_DIR: (IIf(IsNull([International Title]);[original
> > > > title];[International Title])+Chr(13)+Chr(10)) &
> > > > (IIf(IsNull([director]);"";("Directed by: " &
> > > > [director])+Chr(13)+Chr(10))) & (IIf(IsNull([DIR_TEL]);"";"Tel:
> > > > "+([DIR_TEL]) + Chr(13)+Chr(10))) &
> > > > (IIf(IsNull([DIR_MAIL]);"";("e-mail: " & [DIR_MAIL])))
> > > >
> > > > The problem is that if any of [Director], [DIR_TEL[ or [DIR_MAIL]
> > > > fields are null it always returns a blank line to the end
> > > >
> > > > Could you please help?
> > > >
> > > > Thank's
> > > > /kostas
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > AccessD mailing list
> > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > AccessD mailing list
> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> > > --
> > > AccessD mailing list
> > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From jbartow at winhaven.net  Mon Aug 13 22:03:46 2018
From: jbartow at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 03:03:46 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] .ace file malware found in Office 365
Message-ID: <DM5PR1101MB22017CE5F7C5F1D9BD814772D8380@DM5PR1101MB2201.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

"For several weeks, we detected (and blocked) an attack targeting one of the largest municipalities in the U.S. that bypassed Office 365 default security, using a simple yet extremely devastating form of malware contained in an .ace file."

ACE Archives: Microsoft finally closes hole that allowed trojans to bypass Office 365 default security https://www.avanan.com/resources/ace-attack 





From ssharkins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 14 07:24:45 2018
From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 08:24:45 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] .ace file malware found in Office 365
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR1101MB22017CE5F7C5F1D9BD814772D8380@DM5PR1101MB2201.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM5PR1101MB22017CE5F7C5F1D9BD814772D8380@DM5PR1101MB2201.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <005201d433c9$c9a761a0$5cf624e0$@gmail.com>

Egad. ? 

Susan H. 

"For several weeks, we detected (and blocked) an attack targeting one of the largest municipalities in the U.S. that bypassed Office 365 default security, using a simple yet extremely devastating form of malware contained in an .ace file."

ACE Archives: Microsoft finally closes hole that allowed trojans to bypass Office 365 default security https://www.avanan.com/resources/ace-attack 




-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From charlotte.foust at gmail.com  Tue Aug 14 09:25:55 2018
From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 07:25:55 -0700
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
In-Reply-To: <00c301d42ea7$c6852e20$538f8a60$@bchacc.com>
References: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>
	<00ba01d42e9b$5b560680$12021380$@dalyn.co.nz>
	<00c301d42ea7$c6852e20$538f8a60$@bchacc.com>
Message-ID: <CAH+Met8FQH0rzHqSv7kPXiBpzz7VkRQ6WhieZ_xUDAb4fUJ3tw@mail.gmail.com>

Office.FileDialog is what I've been using for years.  It works as
advertised without any problems I have encountered.  However, I have never
worked in 64 bit Office.

Charlotte Foust
(916) 206-4336

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 4:38 PM, Rocky Smolin <rockysmolin at bchacc.com> wrote:

> David:
>
> I fixed it by using the Office.FileDialog object.  Simple and effective.
> So
> far.  Don't know what kind of gotchas accrue to this object but it's
> working. :)
>
> Best,
>
> r
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> David Emerson
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 3:10 PM
> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
>
> Hi Rocky,
>
> What does that function actually do - does it just return the path of a
> folder or file, or does it actually open a selected file?
>
> Regards
>
> David Emerson
> Dalyn Software Ltd
> Wellington, New Zealand
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> Rocky Smolin
> Sent: Wednesday, 8 August 2018 9:48 a.m.
> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
>
> Dear List:
>
>
>
> A client has me adding some functions to a legacy app that was written in
> 32
> bit Access. So it has trouble running on the 64 bit Access he has on his
> machine.  Switching to 32 bit is not an option.
>
>
>
> The adh common open file dialog function which has been working so nicely
> no
> longer works - it uses comdlg32.dll.
>
>
>
> Declare PtrSafe Function adh_apiGetOpenFileName Lib "comdlg32.dll" _
>
> Alias "GetOpenFileNameA" (ofn As tagOPENFILENAME) As Boolean
>
>
>
> I added the PtrSafe and changed the declarations of Long to LongPtr.  But
> no
> cigar.
>
>
>
> So I'm looking for a replacement open file dialog box function that might
> work on both 232 and 64 bit boxes.
>
>
>
> Any help greatly appreciated by me and my client who HAS to get a report
> out
> this week. L
>
>
>
> MTIA
>
>
>
>
>
> Rocky Smolin
>
> Beach Access Software
>
> 760-683-5777
>
>  <http://www.bchacc.com> www.bchacc.com
>
>  <http://www.e-z-mrp.com> www.e-z-mrp.com
>
> Skype: rocky.smolin
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Aug 14 09:43:27 2018
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 00:43:27 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
In-Reply-To: <CAH+Met8FQH0rzHqSv7kPXiBpzz7VkRQ6WhieZ_xUDAb4fUJ3tw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <008a01d42e98$5acf2aa0$106d7fe0$@bchacc.com>,
	<00c301d42ea7$c6852e20$538f8a60$@bchacc.com>,
	<CAH+Met8FQH0rzHqSv7kPXiBpzz7VkRQ6WhieZ_xUDAb4fUJ3tw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B72EA8F.14597.1A6EDC64@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Just ran into anotheer wrinkle with PtrSafe and LongPtr two days ago..

One of the test team for an application I am working on has Office 2007 and it spat the 
dummy on the 32/64 GetFileName() code.

To get it working  on A2007 as well as both 32 and 64bit A2010 onwards, I had to use:

#IF VBA7
   Declare PTRSAFE Function .......
   ......LONGPTR.....
#ELSE
  Declare Function....
 .....LONG......
#END IF



On 14 Aug 2018 at 7:25, Charlotte Foust wrote:

> Office.FileDialog is what I've been using for years.  It works as
> advertised without any problems I have encountered.  However, I have
> never worked in 64 bit Office.
> 
> Charlotte Foust
> (916) 206-4336
> 
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 4:38 PM, Rocky Smolin <rockysmolin at bchacc.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > David:
> >
> > I fixed it by using the Office.FileDialog object.  Simple and
> > effective. So far.  Don't know what kind of gotchas accrue to this
> > object but it's working. :)
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > r
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On
> > Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 3:10 PM To:
> > 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re:
> > [AccessD] Need Open File Dialog Box
> >
> > Hi Rocky,
> >
> > What does that function actually do - does it just return the path
> > of a folder or file, or does it actually open a selected file?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > David Emerson
> > Dalyn Software Ltd
> > Wellington, New Zealand
> >
> >
> >


From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Aug 14 15:58:33 2018
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 14:58:33 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [AccessD] .ace file malware found in Office 365
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR1101MB22017CE5F7C5F1D9BD814772D8380@DM5PR1101MB2201.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM5PR1101MB22017CE5F7C5F1D9BD814772D8380@DM5PR1101MB2201.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <80617573.287060870.1534280313532.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>

Wow, do you think this was directed from foreign governments or just from local spam kiddies? 

Microsoft has introduced a book, on how to build and deploy "Intellegent" bots. Now we will be able to launch attacked on anyone in the world we want. :-):

https://info.microsoft.com/rs/157-GQE-382/images/EN-US-CNTNT-eBook-AI-A-Developer%27s-Guide-to-Building-AI-Applications.pdf?LCID=en-us&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWWpjeU1EUm1NbVF6WW1ZMiIsInQiOiJCS1pYbU9xVXNUbDljSTFcLzNxVWFibE5adHNMTno3XC9KTVFWTSs0Zkt4QTNWRDIraHFnRm1KU2pcLzhPTlFcL1ZGenpYTGliYzZpd3cyc2pSbGt3WWtcL1N6VVZHdVFxSUZuVmJzOUsxM2FqaFd3cXJMNTB0Mjk5elRzaUY3MDZCdlJybjB0aWRWR2xmUENVT1NYRmp5QlRkdz09In0%3D
http://bit.ly/2PazzGP

One door closes and another one opens.

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "John R Bartow" <jbartow at winhaven.net>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <AccessD at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2018 8:03:46 PM
Subject: [AccessD] .ace file malware found in Office 365

"For several weeks, we detected (and blocked) an attack targeting one of the largest municipalities in the U.S. that bypassed Office 365 default security, using a simple yet extremely devastating form of malware contained in an .ace file."

ACE Archives: Microsoft finally closes hole that allowed trojans to bypass Office 365 default security https://www.avanan.com/resources/ace-attack 




-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au  Thu Aug 16 05:08:43 2018
From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:08:43 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Powershell...
Message-ID: <ME1PR01MB166773B44267C0868ED28505FC3E0@ME1PR01MB1667.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Folks,

I am trying to use powershell to write from a CSV to an Access Table when a file is added to a folder.

I have the powershell 'trigger' part working and I can get powershell to write to a text file when triggered.

I can open and extract that data in the CSV I need (that is the file that saved to the said folder which triggers powershell into action).

But I want to write the single line from the csv file to an access table.  I can create the connection in powershell and it opens the table.
It even seems to attempt to write it into the table.  No data is being written but the auto key is creeping up after every attempt, which suggests something is going on.

Is anyone skilled at powershell code, or can point me to a list / group that might be able to help.

If it helps, I can post the code, but that might not be for a few hours.

Cheers
Darryl.




From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Thu Aug 16 06:54:26 2018
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 21:54:26 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Powershell...
In-Reply-To: <ME1PR01MB166773B44267C0868ED28505FC3E0@ME1PR01MB1667.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME1PR01MB166773B44267C0868ED28505FC3E0@ME1PR01MB1667.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5B7565F2.25850.2420D787@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

If the ANPK is going up, I'd suspect a problem with your insert rather than with Powershell.
Is it  an SQL statement?

How about posting the code.


On 16 Aug 2018 at 10:08, Darryl Collins wrote:

> Hi Folks,
> 
> I am trying to use powershell to write from a CSV to an Access Table
> when a file is added to a folder.
> 
> I have the powershell 'trigger' part working and I can get powershell
> to write to a text file when triggered.
> 
> I can open and extract that data in the CSV I need (that is the file
> that saved to the said folder which triggers powershell into action).
> 
> But I want to write the single line from the csv file to an access
> table.  I can create the connection in powershell and it opens the
> table. It even seems to attempt to write it into the table.  No data
> is being written but the auto key is creeping up after every attempt,
> which suggests something is going on.
> 
> Is anyone skilled at powershell code, or can point me to a list /
> group that might be able to help.
> 
> If it helps, I can post the code, but that might not be for a few
> hours.
> 
> Cheers
> Darryl.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From jwcolby at gmail.com  Thu Aug 16 07:44:42 2018
From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John Colby)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:44:42 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Powershell...
In-Reply-To: <ME1PR01MB166773B44267C0868ED28505FC3E0@ME1PR01MB1667.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME1PR01MB166773B44267C0868ED28505FC3E0@ME1PR01MB1667.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <f665ba50-c698-891b-d526-79f5b26dbd56@Gmail.com>

Darryl, I suggest trying to do an import manually.? It is possible that 
there is an issue with a field not able to go in. Doing it manually 
would allow you to see error messages from Access (if any).

Suggestion two, write code in Access which is called by the "trigger".? 
This allows you full control including error handling in the inevitable 
event of issues in data causing the data to not insert.


On 8/16/2018 6:08 AM, Darryl Collins wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> I am trying to use powershell to write from a CSV to an Access Table when a file is added to a folder.
>
> I have the powershell 'trigger' part working and I can get powershell to write to a text file when triggered.
>
> I can open and extract that data in the CSV I need (that is the file that saved to the said folder which triggers powershell into action).
>
> But I want to write the single line from the csv file to an access table.  I can create the connection in powershell and it opens the table.
> It even seems to attempt to write it into the table.  No data is being written but the auto key is creeping up after every attempt, which suggests something is going on.
>
> Is anyone skilled at powershell code, or can point me to a list / group that might be able to help.
>
> If it helps, I can post the code, but that might not be for a few hours.
>
> Cheers
> Darryl.
>
>
>

-- 
John W. Colby


From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au  Thu Aug 16 17:23:31 2018
From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 22:23:31 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Powershell...
In-Reply-To: <5B7565F2.25850.2420D787@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <ME1PR01MB166773B44267C0868ED28505FC3E0@ME1PR01MB1667.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
	<5B7565F2.25850.2420D787@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <ME1PR01MB1667B65F36CB875B8258852CFC3E0@ME1PR01MB1667.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Stuart,

Yes, I agree.  Didn't post the code last night (my time) as I didn't have it handy.  Here we go ?
I have changed all of the fields types in the database table to strings for the moment just to try and make this work.

My suspects are one of the following

1: The CSV file will only ever have a single line. I am currently using a 'foreach' command which loops thru the file.
Maybe I am populating a 2nd set of blank attributes?  This doesn't seem likely as only a the single line is written into the test text file.

2: When powershell runs more than once it doesn't seem to close down Access properly and I am left with a acdb lock file.  Not sure why but it might be locking up the table and preventing further attempts to write to it.

3: I have done something dumb with the SQL string that does the insert (this is possible, although it looks ok from what I can see).  I did try it once with hard coded values and it wrote it into the table, but only once - thus my thoughts about the table being locked by earlier attempts.

I like this powershell approach as it runs external with VBA having to have an interval timer or looping to constantly check the folder - it is fast and work seamlessly in the background, but I am bumbling around with the code as I have little experience with doing more complex things in Powershell.

Happy if anyone has any advice. 

Thanks to John C for your email as well.  Always appreciate your insights given your experience and expertise with all things Access.

Cheers
Darryl



###============== Start of code ===============================================
### SET FOLDER TO WATCH + FILES TO WATCH + SUBFOLDERS YES/NO
    $watcher = New-Object System.IO.FileSystemWatcher
    $watcher.Path = "V:\ReportingQueue\"
    $watcher.Filter = "*.*"
    $watcher.IncludeSubdirectories = $true
    $watcher.EnableRaisingEvents = $true  




### DEFINE ACTIONS AFTER AN EVENT IS DETECTED
    $action = { $path = $Event.SourceEventArgs.FullPath
                $changeType = $Event.SourceEventArgs.ChangeType
                ##$logline = "$(Get-Date), $changeType, $Path"
                ##Add-content "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value $logline
               ### could write to text log file fine in testing
               
               
               
                $connectstring = "Provider=Microsoft.ACE.OLEDB.12.0; Data Source=V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLogDB.accdb"
                $conn = New-Object System.Data.OleDb.OleDbConnection($connectstring)
                $conn.Open()
                ### $File = Import-Csv "V:\ReportingQueue\IMG5029.csv"
                $File = Import-Csv -value ?$path"
    
                foreach ($item in $File) 
                { 
                $Chrono =  $item.Chrono
                $Account = $item.Account
                $ProberRun = $item.ProberRun
                $CreateEveID = $item.CreateEveID

               
                Add-content "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value ?$(Get-Date)"
                Add-content "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value ?$path"
                Add-content "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value ?$Chrono?
                Add-content "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value ?$Account?
                Add-content "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value ?$ProberRun?
                Add-content "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value ?$CreateEveID?
                ### Testing that the csv file is being read correctly - write results to txt file

                
                $cmd = $conn.CreateCommand()
                $cmd.CommandText="INSERT INTO tblReportingQueue(Chrono,Account,ProberRun,CreateEveID) VALUES('$Chrono','$Account','$ProberRun','$CreateEveID')"
                $cmd.ExecuteNonQuery()
                }
                $conn.Close()
              }
              
              
                 
### DECIDE WHICH EVENTS SHOULD BE WATCHED (only need add in this case)
    Register-ObjectEvent $watcher "Created" -Action $action
### Register-ObjectEvent $watcher "Changed" -Action $action
### Register-ObjectEvent $watcher "Deleted" -Action $action
### Register-ObjectEvent $watcher "Renamed" -Action $action
    while ($true) {sleep 5}

###============== End  of code ===============================================









-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2018 9:54 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Powershell...

If the ANPK is going up, I'd suspect a problem with your insert rather than with Powershell.
Is it  an SQL statement?

How about posting the code.


On 16 Aug 2018 at 10:08, Darryl Collins wrote:

> Hi Folks,
> 
> I am trying to use powershell to write from a CSV to an Access Table 
> when a file is added to a folder.
> 
> I have the powershell 'trigger' part working and I can get powershell 
> to write to a text file when triggered.
> 
> I can open and extract that data in the CSV I need (that is the file 
> that saved to the said folder which triggers powershell into action).
> 
> But I want to write the single line from the csv file to an access 
> table.  I can create the connection in powershell and it opens the 
> table. It even seems to attempt to write it into the table.  No data 
> is being written but the auto key is creeping up after every attempt, 
> which suggests something is going on.
> 
> Is anyone skilled at powershell code, or can point me to a list / 
> group that might be able to help.
> 
> If it helps, I can post the code, but that might not be for a few 
> hours.
> 
> Cheers
> Darryl.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Thu Aug 16 18:04:25 2018
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2018 09:04:25 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Powershell...
In-Reply-To: <ME1PR01MB1667B65F36CB875B8258852CFC3E0@ME1PR01MB1667.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME1PR01MB166773B44267C0868ED28505FC3E0@ME1PR01MB1667.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>,
	<5B7565F2.25850.2420D787@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<ME1PR01MB1667B65F36CB875B8258852CFC3E0@ME1PR01MB1667.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5B7602F9.7544.268639FD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

A couple of initial thoughts:

"Register-ObjectEvent $watcher "Created" -Action $action
Does not mean that the file has been written to and closed.  

Have you tried writing $cmd.CommandText to log file to see what you are executing?



On 16 Aug 2018 at 22:23, Darryl Collins wrote:

> Hi Stuart,
> 
> Yes, I agree.  Didn't post the code last night (my time) as I didn't
> have it handy.  Here we go  I have changed all of the fields types
> in the database table to strings for the moment just to try and make
> this work.
> 
> My suspects are one of the following
> 
> 1: The CSV file will only ever have a single line. I am currently
> using a 'foreach' command which loops thru the file. Maybe I am
> populating a 2nd set of blank attributes?  This doesn't seem likely as
> only a the single line is written into the test text file.
> 
> 2: When powershell runs more than once it doesn't seem to close down
> Access properly and I am left with a acdb lock file.  Not sure why but
> it might be locking up the table and preventing further attempts to
> write to it.
> 
> 3: I have done something dumb with the SQL string that does the insert
> (this is possible, although it looks ok from what I can see).  I did
> try it once with hard coded values and it wrote it into the table, but
> only once - thus my thoughts about the table being locked by earlier
> attempts.
> 
> I like this powershell approach as it runs external with VBA having to
> have an interval timer or looping to constantly check the folder - it
> is fast and work seamlessly in the background, but I am bumbling
> around with the code as I have little experience with doing more
> complex things in Powershell.
> 
> Happy if anyone has any advice. 
> 
> Thanks to John C for your email as well.  Always appreciate your
> insights given your experience and expertise with all things Access.
> 
> Cheers
> Darryl
> 
> 
> 
> ###============== Start of code
> ###===============================================
> ### SET FOLDER TO WATCH + FILES TO WATCH + SUBFOLDERS YES/NO
>     $watcher = New-Object System.IO.FileSystemWatcher
>     $watcher.Path = "V:\ReportingQueue\"
>     $watcher.Filter = "*.*"
>     $watcher.IncludeSubdirectories = $true
>     $watcher.EnableRaisingEvents = $true  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ### DEFINE ACTIONS AFTER AN EVENT IS DETECTED
>     $action = { $path = $Event.SourceEventArgs.FullPath
>                 $changeType = $Event.SourceEventArgs.ChangeType
>                 ##$logline = "$(Get-Date), $changeType, $Path"
>                 ##Add-content "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt"
>                 -value $logline
>                ### could write to text log file fine in testing
> 
> 
> 
>                 $connectstring = "Provider=Microsoft.ACE.OLEDB.12.0;
>                 Data Source=V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLogDB.accdb"
>                 $conn = New-Object
>                 System.Data.OleDb.OleDbConnection($connectstring)
>                 $conn.Open() ### $File = Import-Csv
>                 "V:\ReportingQueue\IMG5029.csv" $File = Import-Csv
>                 -value "$path"
> 
>                 foreach ($item in $File) 
>                 { 
>                 $Chrono =  $item.Chrono
>                 $Account = $item.Account
>                 $ProberRun = $item.ProberRun
>                 $CreateEveID = $item.CreateEveID
> 
> 
>                 Add-content "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value
>                 "$(Get-Date)" Add-content
>                 "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value "$path"
>                 Add-content "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value
>                 "$Chrono" Add-content
>                 "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value
>                 "$Account" Add-content
>                 "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value
>                 "$ProberRun" Add-content
>                 "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value
>                 "$CreateEveID" ### Testing that the csv file is
>                 being read correctly - write results to txt file
> 
> 
>                 $cmd = $conn.CreateCommand()
>                 $cmd.CommandText="INSERT INTO
>                 tblReportingQueue(Chrono,Account,ProberRun,CreateEveID
>                 )
>                 VALUES('$Chrono','$Account','$ProberRun','$CreateEveID
>                 ')" $cmd.ExecuteNonQuery() } $conn.Close()
>               }
> 
> 
> 
> ### DECIDE WHICH EVENTS SHOULD BE WATCHED (only need add in this case)
>     Register-ObjectEvent $watcher "Created" -Action $action
> ### Register-ObjectEvent $watcher "Changed" -Action $action
> ### Register-ObjectEvent $watcher "Deleted" -Action $action
> ### Register-ObjectEvent $watcher "Renamed" -Action $action
>     while ($true) {sleep 5}
> 
> ###============== End  of code
> ###===============================================
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of
> Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2018 9:54 PM To: Access
> Developers discussion and problem solving
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Powershell...
> 
> If the ANPK is going up, I'd suspect a problem with your insert rather
> than with Powershell. Is it  an SQL statement?
> 
> How about posting the code.
> 
> 
> On 16 Aug 2018 at 10:08, Darryl Collins wrote:
> 
> > Hi Folks,
> > 
> > I am trying to use powershell to write from a CSV to an Access Table
> > when a file is added to a folder.
> > 
> > I have the powershell 'trigger' part working and I can get
> > powershell to write to a text file when triggered.
> > 
> > I can open and extract that data in the CSV I need (that is the file
> > that saved to the said folder which triggers powershell into
> > action).
> > 
> > But I want to write the single line from the csv file to an access
> > table.  I can create the connection in powershell and it opens the
> > table. It even seems to attempt to write it into the table.  No data
> > is being written but the auto key is creeping up after every
> > attempt, which suggests something is going on.
> > 
> > Is anyone skilled at powershell code, or can point me to a list /
> > group that might be able to help.
> > 
> > If it helps, I can post the code, but that might not be for a few
> > hours.
> > 
> > Cheers
> > Darryl.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au  Thu Aug 16 22:01:39 2018
From: darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au (Darryl Collins)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2018 03:01:39 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Powershell...
In-Reply-To: <5B7602F9.7544.268639FD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <ME1PR01MB166773B44267C0868ED28505FC3E0@ME1PR01MB1667.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>,
	<5B7565F2.25850.2420D787@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<ME1PR01MB1667B65F36CB875B8258852CFC3E0@ME1PR01MB1667.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
	<5B7602F9.7544.268639FD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <ME1PR01MB1667FB094B630EC40706034AFC3D0@ME1PR01MB1667.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks everyone, I seem to have this working now.

By 'seem' I mean I have tested it 5 times and it has behaved so far.

It seems the major offending line was

$File = Import-Csv -value "$path"
Which should have been
$File = Import-Csv -path "$path"

Appreciate your time and efforts - as always, the mere act of writing the problem out and posting it is often helpful in tracking down where the issue is.

Cheers
Darryl.



-----Original Message-----
From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Friday, 17 August 2018 9:04 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Powershell...

A couple of initial thoughts:

"Register-ObjectEvent $watcher "Created" -Action $action Does not mean that the file has been written to and closed.  

Have you tried writing $cmd.CommandText to log file to see what you are executing?



On 16 Aug 2018 at 22:23, Darryl Collins wrote:

> Hi Stuart,
> 
> Yes, I agree.  Didn't post the code last night (my time) as I didn't 
> have it handy.  Here we go  I have changed all of the fields types in 
> the database table to strings for the moment just to try and make this 
> work.
> 
> My suspects are one of the following
> 
> 1: The CSV file will only ever have a single line. I am currently 
> using a 'foreach' command which loops thru the file. Maybe I am 
> populating a 2nd set of blank attributes?  This doesn't seem likely as 
> only a the single line is written into the test text file.
> 
> 2: When powershell runs more than once it doesn't seem to close down 
> Access properly and I am left with a acdb lock file.  Not sure why but 
> it might be locking up the table and preventing further attempts to 
> write to it.
> 
> 3: I have done something dumb with the SQL string that does the insert 
> (this is possible, although it looks ok from what I can see).  I did 
> try it once with hard coded values and it wrote it into the table, but 
> only once - thus my thoughts about the table being locked by earlier 
> attempts.
> 
> I like this powershell approach as it runs external with VBA having to 
> have an interval timer or looping to constantly check the folder - it 
> is fast and work seamlessly in the background, but I am bumbling 
> around with the code as I have little experience with doing more 
> complex things in Powershell.
> 
> Happy if anyone has any advice. 
> 
> Thanks to John C for your email as well.  Always appreciate your 
> insights given your experience and expertise with all things Access.
> 
> Cheers
> Darryl
> 
> 
> 
> ###============== Start of code
> ###===============================================
> ### SET FOLDER TO WATCH + FILES TO WATCH + SUBFOLDERS YES/NO
>     $watcher = New-Object System.IO.FileSystemWatcher
>     $watcher.Path = "V:\ReportingQueue\"
>     $watcher.Filter = "*.*"
>     $watcher.IncludeSubdirectories = $true
>     $watcher.EnableRaisingEvents = $true
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ### DEFINE ACTIONS AFTER AN EVENT IS DETECTED
>     $action = { $path = $Event.SourceEventArgs.FullPath
>                 $changeType = $Event.SourceEventArgs.ChangeType
>                 ##$logline = "$(Get-Date), $changeType, $Path"
>                 ##Add-content "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt"
>                 -value $logline
>                ### could write to text log file fine in testing
> 
> 
> 
>                 $connectstring = "Provider=Microsoft.ACE.OLEDB.12.0;
>                 Data Source=V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLogDB.accdb"
>                 $conn = New-Object
>                 System.Data.OleDb.OleDbConnection($connectstring)
>                 $conn.Open() ### $File = Import-Csv
>                 "V:\ReportingQueue\IMG5029.csv" $File = Import-Csv
>                 -value "$path"
> 
>                 foreach ($item in $File) 
>                 { 
>                 $Chrono =  $item.Chrono
>                 $Account = $item.Account
>                 $ProberRun = $item.ProberRun
>                 $CreateEveID = $item.CreateEveID
> 
> 
>                 Add-content "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value
>                 "$(Get-Date)" Add-content
>                 "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value "$path"
>                 Add-content "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value
>                 "$Chrono" Add-content
>                 "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value
>                 "$Account" Add-content
>                 "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value
>                 "$ProberRun" Add-content
>                 "V:\ReportingLog\ReportingLog.txt" -value
>                 "$CreateEveID" ### Testing that the csv file is
>                 being read correctly - write results to txt file
> 
> 
>                 $cmd = $conn.CreateCommand()
>                 $cmd.CommandText="INSERT INTO
>                 tblReportingQueue(Chrono,Account,ProberRun,CreateEveID
>                 )
>                 VALUES('$Chrono','$Account','$ProberRun','$CreateEveID
>                 ')" $cmd.ExecuteNonQuery() } $conn.Close()
>               }
> 
> 
> 
> ### DECIDE WHICH EVENTS SHOULD BE WATCHED (only need add in this case)
>     Register-ObjectEvent $watcher "Created" -Action $action ### 
> Register-ObjectEvent $watcher "Changed" -Action $action ### 
> Register-ObjectEvent $watcher "Deleted" -Action $action ### 
> Register-ObjectEvent $watcher "Renamed" -Action $action
>     while ($true) {sleep 5}
> 
> ###============== End  of code
> ###===============================================
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> On Behalf Of 
> Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2018 9:54 PM To: Access 
> Developers discussion and problem solving 
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Powershell...
> 
> If the ANPK is going up, I'd suspect a problem with your insert rather 
> than with Powershell. Is it  an SQL statement?
> 
> How about posting the code.
> 
> 
> On 16 Aug 2018 at 10:08, Darryl Collins wrote:
> 
> > Hi Folks,
> > 
> > I am trying to use powershell to write from a CSV to an Access Table 
> > when a file is added to a folder.
> > 
> > I have the powershell 'trigger' part working and I can get 
> > powershell to write to a text file when triggered.
> > 
> > I can open and extract that data in the CSV I need (that is the file 
> > that saved to the said folder which triggers powershell into 
> > action).
> > 
> > But I want to write the single line from the csv file to an access 
> > table.  I can create the connection in powershell and it opens the 
> > table. It even seems to attempt to write it into the table.  No data 
> > is being written but the auto key is creeping up after every 
> > attempt, which suggests something is going on.
> > 
> > Is anyone skilled at powershell code, or can point me to a list / 
> > group that might be able to help.
> > 
> > If it helps, I can post the code, but that might not be for a few 
> > hours.
> > 
> > Cheers
> > Darryl.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > AccessD mailing list
> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> --
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From jwcolby at gmail.com  Thu Aug 30 11:07:30 2018
From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John Colby)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 12:07:30 -0400
Subject: [AccessD] Registry tweaks
Message-ID: <448f922a-4361-7bb2-1c6c-0bce03f5f723@Gmail.com>

I ran across this "optimize windows for mining" article.? Not interested 
in mining per se however of interest to me was a batch file download 
down at the bottom for automating registry hacks for turning off various 
things.? Of interest to me was what was being disabled as well as how to 
perform the adds and deletes.? Pretty cool stuff.? The guy turned the 
bat into a txt file which chrome just opened and displayed.? You could 
turn it back into a bat file for execution, commenting out things you 
don't want done, or for that matter adding other things that you like done.

https://mine2themax.com/optimize-windows10-mining/#tab-con-2

-- 
John W. Colby


From bill_patten at outlook.com  Thu Aug 30 18:13:33 2018
From: bill_patten at outlook.com (Bill Patten)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 23:13:33 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Registry tweaks
In-Reply-To: <448f922a-4361-7bb2-1c6c-0bce03f5f723@Gmail.com>
References: <448f922a-4361-7bb2-1c6c-0bce03f5f723@Gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BN6PR16MB17627846B004E8E8882F794192080@BN6PR16MB1762.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks John,

There is some great stuff in there. 

Bill

-----Original Message----- 
From: John Colby 
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 9:07 AM 
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving ; jwcolby at gmail.com 
Subject: [AccessD] Registry tweaks 

I ran across this "optimize windows for mining" article.  Not interested 
in mining per se however of interest to me was a batch file download 
down at the bottom for automating registry hacks for turning off various 
things.  Of interest to me was what was being disabled as well as how to 
perform the adds and deletes.  Pretty cool stuff.  The guy turned the 
bat into a txt file which chrome just opened and displayed.  You could 
turn it back into a bat file for execution, commenting out things you 
don't want done, or for that matter adding other things that you like done.

https://mine2themax.com/optimize-windows10-mining/#tab-con-2

-- 
John W. Colby

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Thu Aug 30 19:53:07 2018
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:53:07 +1000
Subject: [AccessD] Registry tweaks
In-Reply-To: <BN6PR16MB17627846B004E8E8882F794192080@BN6PR16MB1762.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <448f922a-4361-7bb2-1c6c-0bce03f5f723@Gmail.com>,
	<BN6PR16MB17627846B004E8E8882F794192080@BN6PR16MB1762.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5B889173.31361.395CD95B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Yep, especially the disabling of Wn 10 "phone home" and automatic updates which are a 
major probem for some of my clients here who have seen a huge increase in their expensive 
internet usage as they put more Win 10 worktations in!

On 30 Aug 2018 at 23:13, Bill Patten wrote:

> Thanks John,
> 
> There is some great stuff in there. 
> 
> Bill
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: John Colby 
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 9:07 AM 
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving ;
> jwcolby at gmail.com Subject: [AccessD] Registry tweaks 
> 
> I ran across this "optimize windows for mining" article.  Not
> interested in mining per se however of interest to me was a batch file
> download down at the bottom for automating registry hacks for turning
> off various things.  Of interest to me was what was being disabled as
> well as how to perform the adds and deletes.  Pretty cool stuff.  The
> guy turned the bat into a txt file which chrome just opened and
> displayed.  You could turn it back into a bat file for execution,
> commenting out things you don't want done, or for that matter adding
> other things that you like done.
> 
> https://mine2themax.com/optimize-windows10-mining/#tab-con-2
> 
> -- 
> John W. Colby
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 31 00:57:25 2018
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 05:57:25 +0000
Subject: [AccessD] Registry tweaks
Message-ID: <DB6PR10MB07608A520A0EB5BB769FDB1ECA0F0@DB6PR10MB0760.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Hmm, many of these do nothing for processing speed, like:

Replace Utilman with CMD
Disable Windows Search
show computer shortcut on the desktop
Show file extensions
Disable lock screen
Enable classic control panel view
Hide indication for compressed NTFS files
Remove Pin to start
Classic vertical icon spacing
Remove versioning tab from properties
Disable jump lists
Change Logon screen background with accent color
Removing Windows default apps

And others would seriously degrade usefulness for a normal workstation:

Disable Windows Search
Disable Windows Defender
Disable OneDrive

So: "I've saved the best for last." should read: "How to disable your workstation".

If you want a really fast machine for a special task like mining, run Windows Server in Console mode. Or Linux.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: AccessD <accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com> P? vegne af John Colby
Sendt: 30. august 2018 18:08
Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>; jwcolby at gmail.com
Emne: [AccessD] Registry tweaks

I ran across this "optimize windows for mining" article.? Not interested in mining per se however of interest to me was a batch file download down at the bottom for automating registry hacks for turning off various things.? Of interest to me was what was being disabled as well as how to perform the adds and deletes.? Pretty cool stuff.? The guy turned the bat into a txt file which chrome just opened and displayed.? You could turn it back into a bat file for execution, commenting out things you don't want done, or for that matter adding other things that you like done.

https://mine2themax.com/optimize-windows10-mining/#tab-con-2

--
John W. Colby