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<DIV><SPAN class=560042117-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hi
Rocky,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560042117-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560042117-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Based
on Drew's advice you might want to check out the (HP)Compaq W4000 (P4 2.4G,
512DDR, 18GB SCSI, CD/DVD). Its not a server but is SCSI based and has an open
slot and external SCSI port open (for a tape backup, etc.).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560042117-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560042117-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
picked one up for less than $900 a couple months ago. Includes (ships with) the
option of Windows 2k or XPpro. I benchmarked it and it is a screamer (which you
obviously don't need - but its hard to get a SCSI system at this price).
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560042117-03032003><FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560042117-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>My
server is about 3 years old and I have never had a problem with it. Its a Dell
PowerEdge Server (SCSI) and I added extra drive capacity and a 50 GB
OnStream Tape backup system.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560042117-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560042117-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>HTH</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560042117-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>John
B</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560042117-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560042117-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>a good
place to find the lowest price:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560042117-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><A
href="http://w2knews.pricegrabber.com">http://w2knews.pricegrabber.com</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560042117-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560042117-03032003></SPAN><SPAN
class=560042117-03032003></SPAN><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=560042117-03032003><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=560042117-03032003> </SPAN>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
accessd-admin@databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-admin@databaseadvisors.com]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Drew
Wutka<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 03, 2003 10:49 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
'accessd@databaseadvisors.com'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [AccessD] OT: Server
Needed<BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><SPAN class=829074216-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Nope, you don't need a hefty machine at all. You app isn't going
to use many resources at all, just file sharing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=829074216-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=829074216-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
would recommend, if they are concerned about money, for them to just get a
Pentium III or IV desktop. (I'd say at least 256 to 512 megs of
RAM). Get three hard drives. (SCSI...but that may be a bit
expensive....), Mirror the OS, and RAID a data drive (you can do all of that
in Disk Management...with Windows 2000, no RAID controller necessary.)
If you don't want to setup a domain, then you can stick with Windows 2000
Pro. If you want to setup a domain, then you'll need Windows 2000 (which
ups the price, but you already knew that). </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=829074216-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=829074216-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Drew</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Rocky Smolin - Beach
Access Software [mailto:bchacc@san.rr.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 03,
2003 10:25 AM<BR><B>To:</B> accessd@databaseadvisors.com<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [AccessD] OT: Server Needed<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Drew:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This site will have no web or domain
function. Email is through an ISP. Little hard data
crunching. My app is the main app on the system and it is FE/BE (A2K)
with the FEs on the client machines. Change anything in your
opinion?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Rocky</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=DWUTKA@marlow.com href="mailto:DWUTKA@marlow.com">Drew Wutka</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=accessd@databaseadvisors.com
href="mailto:'accessd@databaseadvisors.com'">'accessd@databaseadvisors.com'</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 03, 2003 7:20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [AccessD] OT: Server
Needed</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Rocky, it is a common misconception that you need a rocking CPU for
a server. That is absolutely not true. There are a few
'purposes' of a server, and not all of them require massive processor
speeds, or tons of memory.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003></SPAN><SPAN
class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>1
- File Sharing</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>2 - Domain Control</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>3 - Network 'Service' Server (Proxy, Email Server, Web Server,
etc).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>4 - Server Computing (Hard data crunching)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>5 - Server Side databases.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>You need to realize the real limiting factors on a server.
First is network bandwidth. a 100 megabit line is roughly 12
megabytes per second. That is not a lot. It is a fraction of
the speed of a typical IDE drive. If you go to a gigabit line, then
you have a much larger data transfer rate (10x, so you are talking roughly
120 megabytes per second...which is faster then your typical IDE drive,
but it is still less then a SCSI Raid configuration). So, if you are
just setting up file transfers, then you don't need much of a machine to
do it. It can have minimal CPU Speed (even Pentium or Pentium
II....though I personally wouldn't go lower then a Pentium III to be on
the safe side), and memory doesn't have to be whopping (256 megs would
do). This is because the file sharing is going to be slower then
actual file usage used locally (do to the pipe the data is going
through). A faster CPU or more memory isn't going to push the data
through faster.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Domain Controllers don't need to be whoppers either. I think
we are running a Pentium II (desktop) for a Primary Domain Controller
here. No problems. It doesn't have to do all that much as far
as processing goes.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Network services. Well, it depends. We run everything
but our mail server on Pentium III desktops. (Proxy, web, intranet,
etc.). It all runs fine. Again, it is going to boil down to
the network tunnel involved. With a webserver, a common
misconception is that you need to have a huge machine to handle massive
transactions. Absolutely not true. In a web server, you have
an even smaller pipe (we have a T1 here), so the data is being sent
through an even slower connection. Now, if you have a lot of Server
Side scripting, where the server is creating pages on the fly, then you do
need a decent CPU, and the more ram you have, the more pages that are
'cached'. But again, you don't need a Cray. Email servers can
require a bit more power though. We use an Exchange Server.
It's got a dual processor, with 2 gigs of RAM. The real catch is how
heavy it is used internally. (for in house
comms).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Server Computing. This is where the most power is
needed. There are software packages out there that use server CPU
time pretty heavily. For example, we have a package called
FlowTherm, and FlowStress. These packages perform massive heat
calculations, over and over and over. If you run this software on a
server, obviously the more CPU and memory you have the
better.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Server Side Databases. You do need power on these. But
again, you are limitted by your network speed. However, your
processor is going to do a lot of work independant of the network traffic,
so it probably should be pretty fast, with lots of memory to
boot.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Just my two cents.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=505384614-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Drew</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Rocky Smolin - Beach
Access Software [mailto:bchacc@san.rr.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March
02, 2003 12:06 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
AccessD@databaseadvisors.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [AccessD] OT: Server
Needed<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dear List:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Excuse the OT please but I know someone
will know the answer:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have a client who wants to upgrade the
server on his network. There's about 10 seats on his network, of
which maybe 6 are being used. Seems to me that he could use any
good, fast P4 box with 1/2 gig of RAM , etc. Which is well under
$1000 these days from dell, or gateway, with three years
on-site.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A local, old, fairly reputable company in
San Diego - Datel - is quoting him $1457 for and Intel entry level
server with a P4 (speed unknown), 512MB RAM, 80GB HD, with DUAL LAN RAID
- whatever that is. Plus another $775 for "WIN 2000 SVR W/5 CLIENT
SP3 OEM-CD". Plus something between 5 and 10 hours of installation
charged at a price unspecified in the quote.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Right now his "server" is an old Win98 box,
slow, but effective.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My question is, what is the difference
between a box that someone like Dell calls a server and an ordinary
computer? Does he need a server?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>MTIA,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Rocky</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>