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<TITLE>RE: [AccessD]OT: C# was no-ip.com - now PHP (N.B. Rich text)</TITLE>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Just ran a quick set of rough stats over both AccessD and</FONT> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">the PHP general lists for the last few weeks. Here's the results fo rthose who may be interested.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<BR>
<P ALIGN=RIGHT><SPAN LANG="en-au"> <FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">PHPphp-general@lists.php.net AccessD<BR>
Start 6-Jul 7-Jul <BR>
End 29-Jul 29-Jul <BR>
Days sampled 24 23 <BR>
No Contributors 601 137 <BR>
Total msgs 3167 1087 <BR>
<BR>
Avg msgs/Contrib 5.27 7.93 <BR>
Range msgs/Contrib 248 82 <BR>
Median 2 3 <BR>
Mode 1 1 <BR>
St Dev 12.91 12.06 <BR>
<BR>
Avg msgs/ day 150.8 49.6 <BR>
Range 321 95 <BR>
Median 160 53 <BR>
Mode #N/A 63 <BR>
StDev 76.4 29.4 <BR>
</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">….(btw) and the winners are</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">By<B> the posts</B></FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">John Colby</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">*</FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">83 <BR>
Charlotte Foust 55 <BR>
Gustav Brock 54 <BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">… an impressive run by the filly in the "Broken References in Runtime AXP" Stakes clearly helped here ….</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">By</FONT><B> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">subject involvement</FONT></B></SPAN>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">From #Subject Streams <BR>
John Colby 39 <BR>
Wortz, Charles 33 <BR>
Gustav Brock 30 <BR>
</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">… stewards are investigating the performance of the champion stayer Wutka, connections are concerned….</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">:-)</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Bruce</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">* thought yer could fool me with two addys eh!</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">From: accessd-bounces@databaseadvisors.com [</FONT></SPAN><A HREF="mailto:accessd-bounces@databaseadvisors.com"><SPAN LANG="en-au"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">mailto:accessd-bounces@databaseadvisors.com</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD)</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Sent: Tuesday, 29 July 2003 3:18 PM</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Subject: RE: [AccessD]OT: C# was no-ip.com</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<BR>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Hi All:</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I have seen a recent claim, have no way to validate it but the assertion goes as follows: PHP as a server based web language now has almost forty percent of the general market...</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">This claim seems outrageous but that would leave PHP holding the largest single market share of that genre of products.</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Jim</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">From: accessd-bounces@databaseadvisors.com</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">[</FONT></SPAN><A HREF="mailto:accessd-bounces@databaseadvisors.com]On"><SPAN LANG="en-au"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">mailto:accessd-bounces@databaseadvisors.com]On</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial"> Behalf Of Marcus, Scott (GEAE, Contractor)</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 10:00 AM</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Subject: RE: [AccessD]OT: C# was no-ip.com</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<BR>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">John,</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Thanks for your optimism on .Net. All I ever here are negative things about MS products (which I make my living with). It is a good point you make about being on the leading edge. I think the same way. I just get discouraged cause very few tend to agree with that statement. It seems that most think that software development will eventually be all off shore. I say that moving off shore totally won't happen (small business needs physical presence). JM2C</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Scott</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">From: jcolby@colbyconsulting.com [</FONT></SPAN><A HREF="mailto:jcolby@colbyconsulting.com"><SPAN LANG="en-au"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">mailto:jcolby@colbyconsulting.com</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">]</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 12:49 PM</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Subject: RE: [AccessD]OT: C# was no-ip.com</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<BR>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Scott,</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">>My only doubts about .Net is that I'm not seeing very many job postings </FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">>for</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">.Net developers (but allot more than Access development).</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I am seeing more and more .net openings, at least more and more "ya need the kitchen sink and oh, by the way, ya need .net too" ads. I get the feeling that not many companies really understand it yet - momentum. However my feelings are that MS has spent a TON of money on developing the concept, and are pushing .net big time. If they put their muscle behind it, it won't be long till it's a "requirement" to get a job and I want to be on the leading edge of this one. PLUS, the .net framework is truly impressive in the capability it gives me "out of the box".</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">>You must have read the same article as me (actually editors comments). </FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">>I'm</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">leaning VB.Net first and then adding C# to my skills. Seems silly to me that C# pulls in more money.</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Yea, it is silly considering the reality of the new .net environment. I'm betting that it won't be long before managers start to listen to M$ saying that any language is equally capable and stop paying more for C#. There are still a very small handful of indirection capabilities that C# has that VB doesn't, and if you need them then fine, go there. Otherwise VB is probably faster to get something up and running in.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">And finally, no, my framework has no equivalents in .net for the simple reason that my framework is about making form development in Access easier (even more RAD). Since .net is so very different from Access, much of what I do simply doesn't even make sense in .net. For example, I have a function in my framework that keeps a record selector combo synced to the form</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">(bound) and the form synced to the combo. It turns out that in .net if you set the form (or a data grid) and a combo to the same dataset, selecting a record in the combo will just cause the two things to stay in sync (be on the same record). AFAICT, that is because the combo actually sets a "current record" property in the dataset object.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Another example, in my framework I want to prevent the user from moving into a subform if the main form goes to the new record. .Net doesn't even HAVE subforms.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Things like that.</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I am in the process of rewriting something that would "make sense" to port - my Sysvars. Assuming that I leave my error handlers in place, that port is really fairly straightforward. However I don't really have much hope of "just porting" my framework. In the end though, there is enough work to be done making .net as "database friendly" as Access that I am sure I will have plenty of similar projects.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">John W. Colby</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"></SPAN><A HREF="file://www.colbyconsulting.com"><SPAN LANG="en-au"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">www.colbyconsulting.com</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-au"></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">From: accessd-bounces@databaseadvisors.com</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">[</FONT></SPAN><A HREF="mailto:accessd-bounces@databaseadvisors.com]On"><SPAN LANG="en-au"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">mailto:accessd-bounces@databaseadvisors.com]On</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial"> Behalf Of Marcus, Scott (GEAE, Contractor)</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 12:03 PM</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Subject: RE: [AccessD]OT: C# was no-ip.com</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<BR>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">John,</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">You must have read the same article as me (actually editors comments). I'm leaning VB.Net first and then adding C# to my skills. Seems silly to me that C# pulls in more money. Like you, that is why I'm going to learn it also. Have you seen any silly job postings like "C# developer with 5 years experience..."?</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Have you found that your Access framework already has equivalents in .Net framework?</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I'm not far enough into .Net to have an opinion yet. I can say that if it is similar to how Java works, I won't like it. I hear that C# is very close to Java.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">What I've learned in VB.Net so far seems pretty straight forward.</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">My only doubts about .Net is that I'm not seeing very many job postings for .Net developers (but allot more than Access development).</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Scott</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">From: jcolby@colbyconsulting.com [</FONT></SPAN><A HREF="mailto:jcolby@colbyconsulting.com"><SPAN LANG="en-au"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">mailto:jcolby@colbyconsulting.com</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">]</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 11:47 AM</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Subject: RE: [AccessD]OT: C# was no-ip.com</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<BR>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Scott,</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Not yet, though I think I will end up there. I'm thinking that learning VB.Net and more importantly the .net framework FIRST will be most useful to me. The framework is massive and being comfortable with that is a requirement regardless of the language you then use for your programming.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Once that is done I will probably move to C# for the simple reason that the polls indicate C# programmers get better money. I did a controller project down in Mexico in a custom 'C' language so it isn't totally foreign.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Again though, the whole point of the .Net concept is that the framework really provides about 90% of the functionality and it is used EXACTLY the same regardless of the language you use. The language itself is really a thin veneer over the top of the framework. Even things like variables are framework objects so that any .net language can literally pass their variables back and forth without the silly problems like you see with VB and C not treating strings the same way.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">John W. Colby</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"></SPAN><A HREF="file://www.colbyconsulting.com"><SPAN LANG="en-au"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">www.colbyconsulting.com</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-au"></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">_______________________________________________</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">AccessD mailing list</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">AccessD@databaseadvisors.com </FONT></SPAN><A HREF="http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd"><SPAN LANG="en-au"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-au"></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Website: </FONT></SPAN><A HREF="http://www.databaseadvisors.com"><SPAN LANG="en-au"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">http://www.databaseadvisors.com</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-au"></SPAN>
</P>
<BR>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">_______________________________________________</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">AccessD mailing list</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">AccessD@databaseadvisors.com </FONT></SPAN><A HREF="http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd"><SPAN LANG="en-au"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-au"></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Website: </FONT></SPAN><A HREF="http://www.databaseadvisors.com"><SPAN LANG="en-au"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">http://www.databaseadvisors.com</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial"> _______________________________________________</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">AccessD mailing list</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">AccessD@databaseadvisors.com </FONT></SPAN><A HREF="http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd"><SPAN LANG="en-au"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-au"></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Website: </FONT></SPAN><A HREF="http://www.databaseadvisors.com"><SPAN LANG="en-au"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">http://www.databaseadvisors.com</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-au"></SPAN>
</P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">_______________________________________________</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">AccessD mailing list</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">AccessD@databaseadvisors.com </FONT></SPAN><A HREF="http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd"><SPAN LANG="en-au"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-au"></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-au"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Website: </FONT></SPAN><A HREF="http://www.databaseadvisors.com"><SPAN LANG="en-au"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">http://www.databaseadvisors.com</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-au"></SPAN>
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