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<TITLE>RE: .HTA/.HTB/PHP v. DotNet - was RE: [AccessD]OT: C# was no-ip.com (is now an apology)</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2><reducing risk and lowering maintenance costs, the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>equivalent of the 1970's GOTO></FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>It has been my experience that there are indeed significant risks involved when you explicitly tell certain people where they can "GO TO" <g> (sorry but it is Friday). BTW I enjoyed your rant.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Jim Hale</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Bruce Bruen [<A HREF="mailto:bbruen@bigpond.com">mailto:bbruen@bigpond.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 7:46 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: RE: .HTA/.HTB/PHP v. DotNet - was RE: [AccessD]OT: C# was</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>no-ip.com (is now an apology)</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Scott and List,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>On re-reading the whole of the thread, it is I who should apologise.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Recently, I have been reviewing technology choices for a friend who is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>embarking on a new product development. As it involves a base of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>multiple database flavours and internet deployment of the finished app</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>he was interested in the development "issues" of various languages with</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>view to understanding his risks if he chose one or more off the newer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>offerings. We looked at .net (VB, ASP and C#), php (and pear), ruby,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Kylix, Delphi, Java and python. </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Somehow, I lost the central issue of the AccessD thread and gave vent to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>my frustrations with the "bells and whistles" marketing disinformation</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>that goes with the currently avialable literature on the commercial</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>languages. In short, I plead "toxic feature overload", m'lud. Or</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>perhaps, as Lloyd Bridges said in Flying High, "I guess I picked the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>wrong week to give up sniffing glue".</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Regarding C#, and given that I have only given it a cursory look as I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>will explain, we were singularly unimpressed.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>According to a very technical and ex-M$ acquaintance, C# still retains</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the the dangerous features of C++, notably no array bound limiting,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>pointer arithmetic and inadequate garbage collection. These, IMHO, are</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>total no-no's in a business application development language. This was</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>a point I quite unadmirably did not make in that rave, so I apologise</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>for losing my own way in that respect. Some may argue that these</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>"features" are strenghts of C. For a mainstream business application</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>development, I disgree. They well may have uses in extremely technical</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>coding situations, like operating systems, DBMS engines, device drivers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>and even embedded devices. But not in mainstream business application</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>development. They are, as far as I'm concerned as a development manager</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>interested in reducing risk and lowering maintenance costs, the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>equivalent of the 1970's GOTO.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Given those comments from the technical man, and the previous separate</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>and joint experiences of both my client and myself in C++ development</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>shops (both of us having experienced never-never delivery schedules and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>delivery of code with incredibly expensive maintenance costs), C# was</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the first cull.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Note VB.net and ASP.net are both still in the race. As are the Borland</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>and non-commercial languages.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>So, again I apologise for hijacking the thread, and also apologise for</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the latish apology. I have just landed another gig and took a quick day</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>off - fishing - before starting work. This time its development of a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>RAD methodology - hmmm - should keep me off the rant for a few months at</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>least, so we'll just have to wait for JC's return (second coming????)</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Bruce</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2><snip>...</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Marcus, Scott (GEAE, Contractor) [<A HREF="mailto:scott.marcus@ae.ge.com">mailto:scott.marcus@ae.ge.com</A>] </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday 2003 Jul 31 07:48</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: RE: [AccessD]OT: C# was no-ip.com</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Bruce,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>I reread my post and am offering an apology for sounding rude. The</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>discussion is interesting, I just wish it had a different subject line.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Scott</FONT>
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