From my.lists at verizon.net Mon Mar 1 18:47:02 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:47:02 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] What's in a function Message-ID: <4043D986.1090200@verizon.net> I wrote a quick function that kicks data out in a table format.. example select * from dbo.udfMyFunction ('GUID - 36 char') which kicks out for example Field1, Field2, Field3 etc... I wanted to join it to another table...table1 where table1 has Field1 wich could be used as an input parameter for the function, am I thinking of this wrong? This errors out for me on the input parameter Select f1.Field1, f1.Field2, t1.Field3 FROM Table1 AS T1 INNER JOIN dbo.udfFunction1 (T1.Field1) ON T1.Field1 = F1.Field1 the error occurs at T1.Field1... any ideas? -- -Francisco From accessd_sql at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 04:58:08 2004 From: accessd_sql at yahoo.com (Sander Derix) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:58:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Job Status not visible Message-ID: <20040302105808.5904.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, we're using SQL Server 2000 SP3. I've created several jobs but somehow I cannot see the status!? Let's say Job1 runs SP1, SP2 and SP3. When I start JOB1 it should say something like Running/ Executing SP1. However we do not see this info?! Why is that? I've searched the net extensivly but I didn't find a solution. Any ideas anybody? Regards, Sander PS: I've tried the following: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In general if those jobs are owned by those developres then they can execute/maintain their own jobs but not others. Also users need permission on msdb..sp_enum_sqlagent_subsystems and msdb..sp_get_sqlagent_properties to run their own jobs including setting 'TargetServersRole' in MSDB for the users. For information refer to this link [] for security and this link [] for Admin. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Try grant them exec permission on msdb..sp_enum_sqlagent_subsystems. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com Tue Mar 2 08:46:39 2004 From: Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com (Djabarov, Robert) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:46:39 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Job Status not visible Message-ID: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C7E7@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> Sounds obvious, but you might have overlooked (ignore if you didn't), - right-mouse click on the job and select Refresh... Robert Djabarov SQL Server & UDB Sr. SQL Server Administrator Phone: (210) 913-3148 Pager: (210) 753-3148 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 www.usaa.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Sander Derix Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 4:58 AM To: accessd Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Job Status not visible Hi group, we're using SQL Server 2000 SP3. I've created several jobs but somehow I cannot see the status!? Let's say Job1 runs SP1, SP2 and SP3. When I start JOB1 it should say something like Running/ Executing SP1. However we do not see this info?! Why is that? I've searched the net extensivly but I didn't find a solution. Any ideas anybody? Regards, Sander PS: I've tried the following: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- In general if those jobs are owned by those developres then they can execute/maintain their own jobs but not others. Also users need permission on msdb..sp_enum_sqlagent_subsystems and msdb..sp_get_sqlagent_properties to run their own jobs including setting 'TargetServersRole' in MSDB for the users. For information refer to this link [] for security and this link [ ] for Admin. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- Try grant them exec permission on msdb..sp_enum_sqlagent_subsystems. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster. _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com Tue Mar 2 09:20:44 2004 From: Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com (Djabarov, Robert) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:20:44 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] What's in a function Message-ID: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3053ECC2@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> I think you forgot to alias your function: INNER JOIN dbo.udfFunction1 (T1.Field1) F1 But I also think you need to change your function or alter your SELECT, otherwise you'll continue receiving errors. Robert Djabarov SQL Server & UDB Sr. SQL Server Administrator Phone: (210) 913-3148 Pager: (210) 753-3148 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 www.usaa.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 6:47 PM To: SQL Server 2k List; dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-SQLServer] What's in a function I wrote a quick function that kicks data out in a table format.. example select * from dbo.udfMyFunction ('GUID - 36 char') which kicks out for example Field1, Field2, Field3 etc... I wanted to join it to another table...table1 where table1 has Field1 wich could be used as an input parameter for the function, am I thinking of this wrong? This errors out for me on the input parameter Select f1.Field1, f1.Field2, t1.Field3 FROM Table1 AS T1 INNER JOIN dbo.udfFunction1 (T1.Field1) ON T1.Field1 = F1.Field1 the error occurs at T1.Field1... any ideas? -- -Francisco _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tuxedo_man at hotmail.com Tue Mar 2 09:44:25 2004 From: tuxedo_man at hotmail.com (Billy Pang) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:44:25 +0000 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] OT: history of windows update Message-ID: Ok, this is bugging me...Does anyone know how I can check to see which windows updates were made to a windows 2000 server box without going to the www.windowsupdate.com website? thanks in advance, Billy _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 2 09:58:03 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:58:03 -0000 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] OT: history of windows update References: Message-ID: <000901c4006f$254bc8f0$9111758f@aine> Add remove programs appears to keep a listing - at least on this XP Pro box Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billy Pang" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 3:44 PM Subject: [dba-SQLServer] OT: history of windows update > Ok, this is bugging me...Does anyone know how I can check to see which > windows updates were made to a windows 2000 server box without going to the > www.windowsupdate.com website? > > thanks in advance, > Billy > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca > > _______________________________________________ > dba-SQLServer mailing list > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com Tue Mar 2 10:11:13 2004 From: Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com (Djabarov, Robert) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:11:13 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] OT: history of windows update Message-ID: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C7E9@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> You can look into Control Panel, they'll be there. Robert Djabarov SQL Server & UDB Sr. SQL Server Administrator Phone: (210) 913-3148 Pager: (210) 753-3148 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 www.usaa.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Billy Pang Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:44 AM To: dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-SQLServer] OT: history of windows update Ok, this is bugging me...Does anyone know how I can check to see which windows updates were made to a windows 2000 server box without going to the www.windowsupdate.com website? thanks in advance, Billy _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2f join.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Tue Mar 2 10:20:55 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:20:55 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] OT: history of windows update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4044B467.1000709@verizon.net> many updates are stored in the event log, so try playing around w/ the sorting to identify them, of course this all goes out the window if they clear the log regularly Billy Pang wrote: > Ok, this is bugging me...Does anyone know how I can check to see which > windows updates were made to a windows 2000 server box without going > to the www.windowsupdate.com website? > > thanks in advance, > Billy > -- -Francisco From tuxedo_man at hotmail.com Tue Mar 2 10:15:43 2004 From: tuxedo_man at hotmail.com (Billy Pang) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:15:43 +0000 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] OT: history of windows update Message-ID: ok... they are in the system log under the NTServicePack source. >From: "Djabarov, Robert" >Reply-To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com >To: >Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] OT: history of windows update >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:11:13 -0600 > >You can look into Control Panel, they'll be there. > > > >Robert Djabarov >SQL Server & UDB >Sr. SQL Server Administrator >Phone: (210) 913-3148 >Pager: (210) 753-3148 >9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 >www.usaa.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Billy >Pang >Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:44 AM >To: dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [dba-SQLServer] OT: history of windows update > >Ok, this is bugging me...Does anyone know how I can check to see which >windows updates were made to a windows 2000 server box without going to >the >www.windowsupdate.com website? > >thanks in advance, >Billy > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2f >join.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca > >_______________________________________________ >dba-SQLServer mailing list >dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_______________________________________________ >dba-SQLServer mailing list >dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Mar 2 11:01:45 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:01:45 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] OT: history of windows update References: Message-ID: <4044BDF9.9080007@shaw.ca> Billy Pang wrote: > Ok, this is bugging me...Does anyone know how I can check to see which > windows updates were made to a windows 2000 server box without going > to the www.windowsupdate.com website? > > thanks in advance, > Billy > This will work from Access97 using WMI versions on win2000 and up or you can run vbs script as per site below Takes about 45 -60 seconds to run You may want to modify this vba code to only print hotfixes rather than all software installs or dump it to a text file. It may produce too much info to fill a textbox. By changing the computer name and running under admin should be able to check all machines in a domain rather than running on a local machine. I modified this from a vbs script from url below. Lots of other useful vbs wmi scripts here http://www.robvanderwoude.com click on left hand pane "WSH" and then examples script look for HotFix Explanation at http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/scriptcenter/compmgmt/ScrCM15.asp 'needs reference set to WMI extension library and WMI cntl library Function hotfix(Optional strComputerName = "Local") As String Dim objWMIService As Object Dim colItems As Object Dim objItem As Object Dim colQuickFixes As Object Dim objQuickFix As Object Dim strcomputer As String Dim strMsg As String ' Check command line parameters Select Case strComputerName Case "Local" ' Default if none specified is local computer (".") Set objWMIService = GetObject("winmgmts://./root/cimv2") Set colItems = objWMIService.ExecQuery("Select * from Win32_ComputerSystem", , 48) For Each objItem In colItems strcomputer = objItem.Name Next Case Else ' Command line parameter can either be a computer name ' or "/?" to request online help strcomputer = strComputerName If InStr(strcomputer, "?") > 0 Then Syntax End Select ' Header line for screen output strMsg = vbCrLf & "Hotfixes installed on " & strcomputer & ":" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf ' Enable error handling On Error Resume Next ' Connect to specified computer Set objWMIService = GetObject("winmgmts:{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!//" & strcomputer & "/root/cimv2") ' Display error number and description if applicable If Err Then ShowError ' Query hotfixes Set colQuickFixes = objWMIService.ExecQuery("Select * from Win32_QuickFixEngineering") ' Display error number and description if applicable If Err Then ShowError ' Prepare display of results For Each objQuickFix In colQuickFixes strMsg = strMsg _ & " Description: " _ & objQuickFix.Description & vbCrLf _ & " Hot Fix ID: " _ & objQuickFix.HotFixID _ & " Installation Date: " _ & objQuickFix.InstallDate _ & " Installed By: " _ & objQuickFix.InstalledBy & vbCrLf & vbCrLf Next ' Display results strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & strMsg hotfix = strMsg Set objWMIService = Nothing Set colItems = Nothing Set objItem = Nothing Set colQuickFixes = Nothing Set objQuickFix = Nothing 'Done End Function Sub ShowError() Dim strMsg As String strMsg = vbCrLf & "Error # " & Err.Number & vbCrLf & _ Err.Description & vbCrLf & vbCrLf Debug.Print strMsg MsgBox strMsg Syntax End Sub Sub Syntax() Dim strMsg As String strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf _ & "HotFixes.vbs, Version 1.00" & vbCrLf _ & "List installed hotfixes for any computer on the network" _ & vbCrLf & vbCrLf _ & "Usage: CSCRIPT //NOLOGO HOTFIXES.VBS [ computer_name ]" _ & vbCrLf & vbCrLf _ & "Where: " & Chr(34) & "computer_name" & Chr(34) _ & " is the optional name of a remote computer" & vbCrLf _ & " (default is local computer name)" _ & vbCrLf & vbCrLf _ & "Based entirely on Microsoft TechNet Script " _ & "Center's sample script:" & vbCrLf _ & "http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?" _ & "url=/technet/scriptcenter/compmgmt/ScrCM15.asp" _ & vbCrLf & vbCrLf _ & "Modified by Rob van der Woude" & vbCrLf _ & "http://www.robvanderwoude.com" Debug.Print strMsg MsgBox strMsg End Sub Function software() As String Dim strcomputer As String Dim objWMIService As Object Dim colFeatures As Object Dim objFeature As Object Dim strMsg As String Dim lFeatureCount As Long strcomputer = "." Set objWMIService = GetObject("winmgmts:" _ & "{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!\\" & strcomputer & "\root\cimv2") Set colFeatures = objWMIService.ExecQuery _ ("Select * from Win32_SoftwareFeature") strMsg = "" lFeatureCount = 0 For Each objFeature In colFeatures lFeatureCount = lFeatureCount + 1 Debug.Print "Accesses: " & objFeature.Accesses Debug.Print "Attributes: " & objFeature.Attributes Debug.Print "Caption: " & objFeature.Caption Debug.Print "Description: " & objFeature.Description Debug.Print "Identifying Number: " & objFeature.IdentifyingNumber Debug.Print "Install Date: " & objFeature.InstallDate Debug.Print "Install State: " & objFeature.InstallState Debug.Print "LastUse: " & objFeature.LastUse Debug.Print "Name: " & objFeature.Name Debug.Print "ProductName: " & objFeature.ProductName Debug.Print "Vendor: " & objFeature.Vendor Debug.Print "Version: " & objFeature.Version strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Accesses: " & objFeature.Accesses strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Attributes: " & objFeature.Attributes strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Caption: " & objFeature.Caption strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Description: " & objFeature.Description strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Identifying Number: " & objFeature.IdentifyingNumber strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Install Date: " & objFeature.InstallDate strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Install State: " & objFeature.InstallState strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "LastUse: " & objFeature.LastUse strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Name: " & objFeature.Name strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "ProductName: " & objFeature.ProductName strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Vendor: " & objFeature.Vendor strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Version: " & objFeature.Version Next software = strMsg MsgBox "Software features=" & lFeatureCount End Function -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Tue Mar 2 18:48:44 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:18:44 +1030 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] OT: history of windows update Message-ID: WU history is stored in an xml file: C:\Program Files\WindowsUpdate\V4\iuhist.xml If you like, there are quite a few tools to parse this history file on this site: http://www.susserver.com/ in the Forum, under Tools. Also note this tool which I've been helping on. Currently at Beta3. Excellent for gathering info about updates applied to all machines in a network: http://www.flarepath.com/fwua Cheers, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Billy Pang [mailto:tuxedo_man at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 3 March 2004 2:14 AM To: dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-SQLServer] OT: history of windows update Ok, this is bugging me...Does anyone know how I can check to see which windows updates were made to a windows 2000 server box without going to the www.windowsupdate.com website? thanks in advance, Billy _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin .msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Mon Mar 8 09:45:40 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:45:40 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints Message-ID: <008b01c40524$69294390$2501a8c0@PASCAL> What's the value of using a unique constraint vs. a unique index? Is it that you would use an index if you also wanted to sort or search on that field, and a constraint if you just wanted to enforce uniqueness without the overhead of an index? Or is there more to it than that? Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com From Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com Mon Mar 8 11:05:25 2004 From: Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com (Djabarov, Robert) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:05:25 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints Message-ID: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C80B@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> Hmmm, I always thought that there were only 2 types of indexes, - clustered and non-clustered. Primary Key constraint also ensures uniqueness, just like unique constraint. Robert Djabarov SQL Server & UDB Sr. SQL Server Administrator Phone: (210) 913-3148 Pager: (210) 753-3148 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 www.usaa.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Whittinghill Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:46 AM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints What's the value of using a unique constraint vs. a unique index? Is it that you would use an index if you also wanted to sort or search on that field, and a constraint if you just wanted to enforce uniqueness without the overhead of an index? Or is there more to it than that? Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Mon Mar 8 11:45:12 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:45:12 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints References: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C80B@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> Message-ID: <000e01c40535$1c0b3a80$2501a8c0@PASCAL> To clarify, Is there any difference between ALTER TABLE MyTable ADDCONSTRAINT MyConstraint UNIQUE (MyField) and CREATE UNIQUE INDEX MyIndex ON MyTable(MyField) or do these both produce unique nonclustered indexes? I'm confused because in Access, you just set an index. In table design view in Enterprise Manager, you have the choice of setting an index or a constraint, but if you right click the table in EM and choose manage indexes then examine the SQL, it looks the same between an index and a constraint. Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Djabarov, Robert" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:05 AM Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints > Hmmm, I always thought that there were only 2 types of indexes, - > clustered and non-clustered. Primary Key constraint also ensures > uniqueness, just like unique constraint. > > > > Robert Djabarov > SQL Server & UDB > Sr. SQL Server Administrator > Phone: (210) 913-3148 > Pager: (210) 753-3148 > 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 > www.usaa.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark > Whittinghill > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:46 AM > To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints > > What's the value of using a unique constraint vs. a unique index? Is it > that you would use an index if you also wanted to sort or search on that > field, and a constraint if you just wanted to enforce uniqueness without > the > overhead of an index? Or is there more to it than that? > > > Mark Whittinghill > Symphony Information Services > 763-391-7400 > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-SQLServer mailing list > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-SQLServer mailing list > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com Mon Mar 8 11:56:46 2004 From: Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com (Djabarov, Robert) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:56:46 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints Message-ID: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C80C@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> UNIQUE INDEX is an index overloaded with characteristics of a unique constraint. I guess the true difference is that the presence of unique constraint does not affect the performance, while the presence of an index does, regardless of whether it's unique or not. Robert Djabarov SQL Server & UDB Sr. SQL Server Administrator Phone: (210) 913-3148 Pager: (210) 753-3148 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 www.usaa.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Whittinghill Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:45 AM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints To clarify, Is there any difference between ALTER TABLE MyTable ADDCONSTRAINT MyConstraint UNIQUE (MyField) and CREATE UNIQUE INDEX MyIndex ON MyTable(MyField) or do these both produce unique nonclustered indexes? I'm confused because in Access, you just set an index. In table design view in Enterprise Manager, you have the choice of setting an index or a constraint, but if you right click the table in EM and choose manage indexes then examine the SQL, it looks the same between an index and a constraint. Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Djabarov, Robert" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:05 AM Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints > Hmmm, I always thought that there were only 2 types of indexes, - > clustered and non-clustered. Primary Key constraint also ensures > uniqueness, just like unique constraint. > > > > Robert Djabarov > SQL Server & UDB > Sr. SQL Server Administrator > Phone: (210) 913-3148 > Pager: (210) 753-3148 > 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 > www.usaa.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark > Whittinghill > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:46 AM > To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints > > What's the value of using a unique constraint vs. a unique index? Is it > that you would use an index if you also wanted to sort or search on that > field, and a constraint if you just wanted to enforce uniqueness without > the > overhead of an index? Or is there more to it than that? > > > Mark Whittinghill > Symphony Information Services > 763-391-7400 > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-SQLServer mailing list > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-SQLServer mailing list > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Mon Mar 8 12:30:42 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:30:42 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints References: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C80C@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> Message-ID: <000801c4053b$77505820$2501a8c0@PASCAL> So if I didn't need an index, but I did need uniqueness, I would use a constraint to save on the overhead. If I wanted to help, say, sorting on the unique field, I would use an index. Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Djabarov, Robert" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:56 AM Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints > UNIQUE INDEX is an index overloaded with characteristics of a unique > constraint. I guess the true difference is that the presence of unique > constraint does not affect the performance, while the presence of an > index does, regardless of whether it's unique or not. > > > > Robert Djabarov > SQL Server & UDB > Sr. SQL Server Administrator > Phone: (210) 913-3148 > Pager: (210) 753-3148 > 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 > www.usaa.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark > Whittinghill > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:45 AM > To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints > > To clarify, > > Is there any difference between > ALTER TABLE MyTable > ADDCONSTRAINT MyConstraint UNIQUE (MyField) > > and > > CREATE UNIQUE INDEX MyIndex > ON MyTable(MyField) > > or do these both produce unique nonclustered indexes? I'm confused > because > in Access, you just set an index. In table design view in Enterprise > Manager, you have the choice of setting an index or a constraint, but if > you > right click the table in EM and choose manage indexes then examine the > SQL, > it looks the same between an index and a constraint. > > Mark Whittinghill > Symphony Information Services > 763-391-7400 > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Djabarov, Robert" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:05 AM > Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints > > > > Hmmm, I always thought that there were only 2 types of indexes, - > > clustered and non-clustered. Primary Key constraint also ensures > > uniqueness, just like unique constraint. > > > > > > > > Robert Djabarov > > SQL Server & UDB > > Sr. SQL Server Administrator > > Phone: (210) 913-3148 > > Pager: (210) 753-3148 > > 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 > > www.usaa.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark > > Whittinghill > > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:46 AM > > To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints > > > > What's the value of using a unique constraint vs. a unique index? Is > it > > that you would use an index if you also wanted to sort or search on > that > > field, and a constraint if you just wanted to enforce uniqueness > without > > the > > overhead of an index? Or is there more to it than that? > > > > > > Mark Whittinghill > > Symphony Information Services > > 763-391-7400 > > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-SQLServer mailing list > > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-SQLServer mailing list > > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-SQLServer mailing list > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-SQLServer mailing list > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov Mon Mar 8 12:20:47 2004 From: Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov (Stoker, Kenneth E) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:20:47 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints Message-ID: <249C1CB246997C48BB74963CCD361C1B07C98B@pnlmse28.pnl.gov> In BOL, the following statement is made about unique constraints: "SQL Server automatically creates a UNIQUE index to enforce the uniqueness requirement of the UNIQUE constraint. Therefore, if an attempt to insert a duplicate row is made, SQL Server returns an error message that says the UNIQUE constraint has been violated and does not add the row to the table. Unless a clustered index is explicitly specified, a unique, nonclustered index is created by default to enforce the UNIQUE constraint." Now, under unique indexes, I am not sure why it make the following statement about using PRIMARY KEY or UNIQUE constraint instead of UNIQUE index: "Specifying a unique index makes sense only when uniqueness is a characteristic of the data itself. If uniqueness must be enforced to ensure data integrity, create a UNIQUE or PRIMARY KEY constraint on the column rather than a unique index. For example, if you plan to query frequently on the Social Security number (ssn) column in the employee table (in which the primary key is emp_id), and you want to ensure that Social Security numbers are unique, create a UNIQUE constraint on ssn. If the user enters the same Social Security number for more than one employee, an error is displayed." Hope this clarifies. Ken Stoker Technology Commercialization Information Systems Administrator PH: (509) 375-3758 FAX: (509) 375-6731 E-mail: Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov -----Original Message----- From: Mark Whittinghill [mailto:mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:46 AM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints What's the value of using a unique constraint vs. a unique index? Is it that you would use an index if you also wanted to sort or search on that field, and a constraint if you just wanted to enforce uniqueness without the overhead of an index? Or is there more to it than that? Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com Mon Mar 8 12:32:33 2004 From: Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com (Djabarov, Robert) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:32:33 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints Message-ID: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C80D@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> Yup, and if you need both then you have a choice of having unique index or an index and a constraint, or a primary non-clustered index (all three would yield the same result) Robert Djabarov SQL Server & UDB Sr. SQL Server Administrator Phone: (210) 913-3148 Pager: (210) 753-3148 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 www.usaa.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Whittinghill Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:31 PM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints So if I didn't need an index, but I did need uniqueness, I would use a constraint to save on the overhead. If I wanted to help, say, sorting on the unique field, I would use an index. Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Djabarov, Robert" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:56 AM Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints > UNIQUE INDEX is an index overloaded with characteristics of a unique > constraint. I guess the true difference is that the presence of unique > constraint does not affect the performance, while the presence of an > index does, regardless of whether it's unique or not. > > > > Robert Djabarov > SQL Server & UDB > Sr. SQL Server Administrator > Phone: (210) 913-3148 > Pager: (210) 753-3148 > 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 > www.usaa.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark > Whittinghill > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:45 AM > To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints > > To clarify, > > Is there any difference between > ALTER TABLE MyTable > ADDCONSTRAINT MyConstraint UNIQUE (MyField) > > and > > CREATE UNIQUE INDEX MyIndex > ON MyTable(MyField) > > or do these both produce unique nonclustered indexes? I'm confused > because > in Access, you just set an index. In table design view in Enterprise > Manager, you have the choice of setting an index or a constraint, but if > you > right click the table in EM and choose manage indexes then examine the > SQL, > it looks the same between an index and a constraint. > > Mark Whittinghill > Symphony Information Services > 763-391-7400 > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Djabarov, Robert" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:05 AM > Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints > > > > Hmmm, I always thought that there were only 2 types of indexes, - > > clustered and non-clustered. Primary Key constraint also ensures > > uniqueness, just like unique constraint. > > > > > > > > Robert Djabarov > > SQL Server & UDB > > Sr. SQL Server Administrator > > Phone: (210) 913-3148 > > Pager: (210) 753-3148 > > 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 > > www.usaa.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark > > Whittinghill > > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:46 AM > > To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints > > > > What's the value of using a unique constraint vs. a unique index? Is > it > > that you would use an index if you also wanted to sort or search on > that > > field, and a constraint if you just wanted to enforce uniqueness > without > > the > > overhead of an index? Or is there more to it than that? > > > > > > Mark Whittinghill > > Symphony Information Services > > 763-391-7400 > > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-SQLServer mailing list > > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-SQLServer mailing list > > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-SQLServer mailing list > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-SQLServer mailing list > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Mon Mar 8 13:01:45 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:01:45 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints References: <249C1CB246997C48BB74963CCD361C1B07C98B@pnlmse28.pnl.gov> Message-ID: <002601c4053f$ce2a6560$2501a8c0@PASCAL> > "SQL Server automatically creates a UNIQUE index to enforce the > uniqueness requirement of the UNIQUE constraint. Therefore, if an > attempt to insert a duplicate row is made, SQL Server returns an error > message that says the UNIQUE constraint has been violated and does not > add the row to the table. Unless a clustered index is explicitly > specified, a unique, nonclustered index is created by default to enforce > the UNIQUE constraint." Ok, I can understand this. > "Specifying a unique index makes sense only when uniqueness is a > characteristic of the data itself. If uniqueness must be enforced to > ensure data integrity, create a UNIQUE or PRIMARY KEY constraint on the > column rather than a unique index. For example, if you plan to query > frequently on the Social Security number (ssn) column in the employee > table (in which the primary key is emp_id), and you want to ensure that > Social Security numbers are unique, create a UNIQUE constraint on ssn. > If the user enters the same Social Security number for more than one > employee, an error is displayed." But didn't they just say that the unique index is created automatically? And what's the difference between "uniqueness is a characteristic of the data itself" and "uniqueness must be enforced to ensure data integrity?" Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stoker, Kenneth E" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:20 PM Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints > In BOL, the following statement is made about unique constraints: > > "SQL Server automatically creates a UNIQUE index to enforce the > uniqueness requirement of the UNIQUE constraint. Therefore, if an > attempt to insert a duplicate row is made, SQL Server returns an error > message that says the UNIQUE constraint has been violated and does not > add the row to the table. Unless a clustered index is explicitly > specified, a unique, nonclustered index is created by default to enforce > the UNIQUE constraint." > > Now, under unique indexes, I am not sure why it make the following > statement about using PRIMARY KEY or UNIQUE constraint instead of UNIQUE > index: > > "Specifying a unique index makes sense only when uniqueness is a > characteristic of the data itself. If uniqueness must be enforced to > ensure data integrity, create a UNIQUE or PRIMARY KEY constraint on the > column rather than a unique index. For example, if you plan to query > frequently on the Social Security number (ssn) column in the employee > table (in which the primary key is emp_id), and you want to ensure that > Social Security numbers are unique, create a UNIQUE constraint on ssn. > If the user enters the same Social Security number for more than one > employee, an error is displayed." > > Hope this clarifies. > > > Ken Stoker > Technology Commercialization > Information Systems Administrator > PH: (509) 375-3758 > FAX: (509) 375-6731 > E-mail: Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Whittinghill [mailto:mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com] > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:46 AM > To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Unique indexes vs. constraints > > > What's the value of using a unique constraint vs. a unique index? Is it > that you would use an index if you also wanted to sort or search on that > field, and a constraint if you just wanted to enforce uniqueness without > the overhead of an index? Or is there more to it than that? > > > Mark Whittinghill > Symphony Information Services > 763-391-7400 > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-SQLServer mailing list > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-SQLServer mailing list > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From my.lists at verizon.net Tue Mar 9 18:43:23 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:43:23 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Access 2000 ADP's and DataSheet views Message-ID: <404E64AB.60008@verizon.net> Quick questions, has anyone on the list tried to use a datasheet view form bound to a view or sproc and found that if you filter out the display (datasheet) that upon making changes to any field the datasheet looses it's Filter? Thanks, -- -Francisco From serbach at new.rr.com Wed Mar 10 08:31:48 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:31:48 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Message-ID: <20040310083148.2052010050.serbach@new.rr.com> Arthur, While I haven't devoted much time to keeping up with SQL Server developments I do subscribe to a couple SQL Server newsletters: SQL Server Central and Builder.com. My eyes lit on the headline "Enhance Enterprise Manager with Access." I thought to myself I thought, "Self, isn't that what Arthur Fuller has recommended lo! these many eons?" I read through to the bottom of the article and, sure enough, there's your moniker. There was also the open question, "Why did Microsoft kill ADP files in Access 2003?" I remember some time back before Access 2003 came out you were biting your tongue in the groups here because you were under an NDA. The only thing I remember you saying was something about how disappointed you were with Microsoft's direction with Access. In Access 2003 are we reduced to using ADO in code to get at SQL Server data? I suppose that ODBC is still an option if one wants to have direct manipulation of SQL Server tables, right? Sorry if these are naive questions; I've been wandering for a while. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 10 10:09:07 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:09:07 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article In-Reply-To: <20040310083148.2052010050.serbach@new.rr.com> References: <20040310083148.2052010050.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <404F3DA3.4090004@verizon.net> Are you kidding me? Access 2003 is sans ADP's!!!! :O. Well I guess that's all the more reason to convert my last project from an ADP to .Net2003 :( -- -Francisco Steven W. Erbach wrote: >Arthur, > >While I haven't devoted much time to keeping up with SQL Server developments I do subscribe to a couple SQL Server newsletters: SQL Server Central and Builder.com. My eyes lit on the headline "Enhance Enterprise Manager with Access." I thought to myself I thought, "Self, isn't that what Arthur Fuller has recommended lo! these many eons?" > >I read through to the bottom of the article and, sure enough, there's your moniker. There was also the open question, "Why did Microsoft kill ADP files in Access 2003?" I remember some time back before Access 2003 came out you were biting your tongue in the groups here because you were under an NDA. The only thing I remember you saying was something about how disappointed you were with Microsoft's direction with Access. > >In Access 2003 are we reduced to using ADO in code to get at SQL Server data? I suppose that ODBC is still an option if one wants to have direct manipulation of SQL Server tables, right? Sorry if these are naive questions; I've been wandering for a while. > >Regards, > >Steve Erbach > > From michael.broesdorf at web.de Wed Mar 10 10:18:30 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?us-ascii?Q?Michael_Brosdorf?=) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:18:30 +0100 Subject: AW: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article In-Reply-To: <404F3DA3.4090004@verizon.net> Message-ID: Is that true: no ADP's in Access 2003??? -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Francisco H Tapia Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. Marz 2004 17:09 An: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Betreff: Re: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Are you kidding me? Access 2003 is sans ADP's!!!! :O. Well I guess that's all the more reason to convert my last project from an ADP to .Net2003 :( -- -Francisco Steven W. Erbach wrote: >Arthur, > >While I haven't devoted much time to keeping up with SQL Server developments I do subscribe to a couple SQL Server newsletters: SQL Server Central and Builder.com. My eyes lit on the headline "Enhance Enterprise Manager with Access." I thought to myself I thought, "Self, isn't that what Arthur Fuller has recommended lo! these many eons?" > >I read through to the bottom of the article and, sure enough, there's your moniker. There was also the open question, "Why did Microsoft kill ADP files in Access 2003?" I remember some time back before Access 2003 came out you were biting your tongue in the groups here because you were under an NDA. The only thing I remember you saying was something about how disappointed you were with Microsoft's direction with Access. > >In Access 2003 are we reduced to using ADO in code to get at SQL Server data? I suppose that ODBC is still an option if one wants to have direct manipulation of SQL Server tables, right? Sorry if these are naive questions; I've been wandering for a while. > >Regards, > >Steve Erbach > > _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From James at fcidms.com Wed Mar 10 10:40:07 2004 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:40:07 -0500 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200403101639.LAA07314@jake.bcentralhost.com> No, you can still create ADP's in Access 2003. I just got a new computer with Office 2003 and have been able to create new ADP's as well as use previously created ones. James Barash -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Brosdorf Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:19 AM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: AW: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Is that true: no ADP's in Access 2003??? -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Francisco H Tapia Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. Marz 2004 17:09 An: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Betreff: Re: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Are you kidding me? Access 2003 is sans ADP's!!!! :O. Well I guess that's all the more reason to convert my last project from an ADP to .Net2003 :( -- -Francisco Steven W. Erbach wrote: >Arthur, > >While I haven't devoted much time to keeping up with SQL Server developments I do subscribe to a couple SQL Server newsletters: SQL Server Central and Builder.com. My eyes lit on the headline "Enhance Enterprise Manager with Access." I thought to myself I thought, "Self, isn't that what Arthur Fuller has recommended lo! these many eons?" > >I read through to the bottom of the article and, sure enough, there's your moniker. There was also the open question, "Why did Microsoft kill ADP files in Access 2003?" I remember some time back before Access 2003 came out you were biting your tongue in the groups here because you were under an NDA. The only thing I remember you saying was something about how disappointed you were with Microsoft's direction with Access. > >In Access 2003 are we reduced to using ADO in code to get at SQL Server data? I suppose that ODBC is still an option if one wants to have direct manipulation of SQL Server tables, right? Sorry if these are naive questions; I've been wandering for a while. > >Regards, > >Steve Erbach > > _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 10 10:51:40 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:51:40 -0800 Subject: AW: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article References: Message-ID: <404F479C.2070504@shaw.ca> I have used ADP's and ADE's in Access 2003 Michael Brosdorf wrote: >Is that true: no ADP's in Access 2003??? > >-----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- >Von: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von >Francisco H Tapia >Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. Marz 2004 17:09 >An: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com >Betreff: Re: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article > > >Are you kidding me? Access 2003 is sans ADP's!!!! :O. Well I guess that's >all the more reason to convert my last project from an ADP to .Net2003 :( >-- >-Francisco > > >Steven W. Erbach wrote: > > > >>Arthur, >> >>While I haven't devoted much time to keeping up with SQL Server >> >> >developments I do subscribe to a couple SQL Server newsletters: SQL Server >Central and Builder.com. My eyes lit on the headline "Enhance Enterprise >Manager with Access." I thought to myself I thought, "Self, isn't that what >Arthur Fuller has recommended lo! these many eons?" > > >>I read through to the bottom of the article and, sure enough, there's your >> >> >moniker. There was also the open question, "Why did Microsoft kill ADP files >in Access 2003?" I remember some time back before Access 2003 came out you >were biting your tongue in the groups here because you were under an NDA. >The only thing I remember you saying was something about how disappointed >you were with Microsoft's direction with Access. > > >>In Access 2003 are we reduced to using ADO in code to get at SQL Server >> >> >data? I suppose that ODBC is still an option if one wants to have direct >manipulation of SQL Server tables, right? Sorry if these are naive >questions; I've been wandering for a while. > > >>Regards, >> >>Steve Erbach >> >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >dba-SQLServer mailing list >dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_______________________________________________ >dba-SQLServer mailing list >dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From serbach at new.rr.com Wed Mar 10 15:43:10 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:43:10 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Message-ID: <20040310154310.99108554.serbach@new.rr.com> Francisco, >> Are you kidding me? ?Access 2003 is sans ADP's!!!! :O. << OK, let me in on the joke. How else am I supposed to interpret this article by Arthur? (from builder.com newsletter, 9-Mar-2004): ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Enhance Enterprise Manager with Access Seasoned DBAs know that one of the best development environments available is virtually free, and it blows away the classic SQL Enterprise Manager. (Note: It's only free if you have a license for Microsoft Office 2000 or XP; it doesn't work for Office 2003.) Most companies that use SQL Server also use Office, and most of those firms have licensed the version that includes Access. That means that you can create a Microsoft Access project (ADP) file, which provides direct hooks into SQL Server. Once you create an ADP file, you can do almost everything that you can from Enterprise Manager, including create tables, views, stored procedures, and user-defined functions. You cannot create and execute DTS packages, set up logins and roles, etc., because Access is not meant to replace Enterprise Manager for these tasks. Follow these steps to set up this tool (this only works in Access 2000 or Access XP): 1. Create an ADP that points to the SQL database of your choice. Make sure that it connects successfully; this will depend upon several factors, such as integrated or separate login. 2. Look at the database window in Access. If you're using Access 2000, you'll see separate tabs for Queries and Stored Procedures. If you're using Access 2002 (XP), these two tabs have been rolled into one. 3. Create a new stored procedure or view. You'll discover that you have a wizard and a graphical environment in which you can drag and drop, double-click various columns from various tables, automatically join tables, and view what you're building as SQL rather than as a graphic. This is especially useful when building constructs such as SELECT TOP 10 .... Nobody said that graphical interfaces could do everything, but the beauty is that you can have it both ways. 4. Create either a scalar or a table function. 5. Follow the prompts and build something. Even if it's simple, it'll help you get a feel for the tool. Enterprise Manager is intended more for maintenance than for development. Several other companies offer alternatives, but at a substantial cost. Even if you can get a sign-off to license one of these third-party products, you should investigate Access ADP files before doing so. Chances are that you'll get almost all the functionality you want--and virtually for free. The real question is: Why did Microsoft kill ADP files in Access 2003? Possibly because they were so good that they made Enterprise Manager look foolish by comparison; or perhaps because Yukon is such a radical change that it would demand a complete rewrite of the relevant code. Your guess is as good as mine. Arthur Fuller has been developing database applications for 20 years. His experience includes Access ADPs, Microsoft SQL 2000, MySQL, and .NET. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 10 16:13:27 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:13:27 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article In-Reply-To: <20040310154310.99108554.serbach@new.rr.com> References: <20040310154310.99108554.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <404F9307.2040900@verizon.net> That's why I was confused, see that paragraph the way it opens?, and as a personal preference, I do all my view/sproc/function creation and edits over in QA instead of my ADP (access 2000). It's all a mater of preference tho. Steven W. Erbach wrote: >Francisco, > > > >>>Are you kidding me? Access 2003 is sans ADP's!!!! :O. << >>> >>> > >OK, let me in on the joke. How else am I supposed to interpret this article by Arthur? (from builder.com newsletter, 9-Mar-2004): > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Enhance Enterprise Manager with Access > > >The real question is: Why did Microsoft kill ADP files in Access 2003? Possibly because they were so good that they made Enterprise Manager look foolish by comparison; or perhaps because Yukon is such a radical change that it would demand a complete rewrite of the relevant code. Your guess is as good as mine. > > -- -Francisco From serbach at new.rr.com Wed Mar 10 16:39:18 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:39:18 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Message-ID: <20040310163918.1815503568.serbach@new.rr.com> Francisco, I'm just trying to find out the real deal. Mr. Barash says you can create ADPs in A2003. Mr. Connelly says that he's used them in A2003. Mr. Fuller says Microsoft "killed" 'em. Mr. Brosdorf wonders what the heck's going on...and so do I. So what's the deal? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm From Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com Wed Mar 10 16:45:01 2004 From: Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com (Djabarov, Robert) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:45:01 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Message-ID: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3053ECCA@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> I thought I would just ignore this discussion, but when I saw "seasoned DBAs" reference, and I could not resist! First of all, seasoned DBAs would not use MS Access for database/server administration purposes, NEVER!!! Very rarely we use Enterprise Manager, OK? I have stopped using EM on a daily basis since 6.5, needless to say in 7.0 or 2K environment. How can a "seasoned DBA" even mention MS Access as a tool of choice, unless he/she is not really ... "seasoned"...??? Robert Djabarov SQL Server & UDB Sr. SQL Server Administrator (SEASONED) Phone: (210) 913-3148 Pager: (210) 753-3148 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 www.usaa.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:43 PM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Francisco, >> Are you kidding me? ?Access 2003 is sans ADP's!!!! :O. << OK, let me in on the joke. How else am I supposed to interpret this article by Arthur? (from builder.com newsletter, 9-Mar-2004): ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Enhance Enterprise Manager with Access Seasoned DBAs know that one of the best development environments available is virtually free, and it blows away the classic SQL Enterprise Manager. (Note: It's only free if you have a license for Microsoft Office 2000 or XP; it doesn't work for Office 2003.) Most companies that use SQL Server also use Office, and most of those firms have licensed the version that includes Access. That means that you can create a Microsoft Access project (ADP) file, which provides direct hooks into SQL Server. Once you create an ADP file, you can do almost everything that you can from Enterprise Manager, including create tables, views, stored procedures, and user-defined functions. You cannot create and execute DTS packages, set up logins and roles, etc., because Access is not meant to replace Enterprise Manager for these tasks. Follow these steps to set up this tool (this only works in Access 2000 or Access XP): 1. Create an ADP that points to the SQL database of your choice. Make sure that it connects successfully; this will depend upon several factors, such as integrated or separate login. 2. Look at the database window in Access. If you're using Access 2000, you'll see separate tabs for Queries and Stored Procedures. If you're using Access 2002 (XP), these two tabs have been rolled into one. 3. Create a new stored procedure or view. You'll discover that you have a wizard and a graphical environment in which you can drag and drop, double-click various columns from various tables, automatically join tables, and view what you're building as SQL rather than as a graphic. This is especially useful when building constructs such as SELECT TOP 10 .... Nobody said that graphical interfaces could do everything, but the beauty is that you can have it both ways. 4. Create either a scalar or a table function. 5. Follow the prompts and build something. Even if it's simple, it'll help you get a feel for the tool. Enterprise Manager is intended more for maintenance than for development. Several other companies offer alternatives, but at a substantial cost. Even if you can get a sign-off to license one of these third-party products, you should investigate Access ADP files before doing so. Chances are that you'll get almost all the functionality you want--and virtually for free. The real question is: Why did Microsoft kill ADP files in Access 2003? Possibly because they were so good that they made Enterprise Manager look foolish by comparison; or perhaps because Yukon is such a radical change that it would demand a complete rewrite of the relevant code. Your guess is as good as mine. Arthur Fuller has been developing database applications for 20 years. His experience includes Access ADPs, Microsoft SQL 2000, MySQL, and .NET. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From James at fcidms.com Wed Mar 10 17:05:40 2004 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:05:40 -0500 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article In-Reply-To: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3053ECCA@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> Message-ID: <200403102305.SAA17123@jake.bcentralhost.com> If I may ask, what do you use for administration if not EM? As a programmer who occasionally must act as a very unseasoned DBA, I'll always looking for better tools. James Barash -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Djabarov, Robert Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:45 PM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article I thought I would just ignore this discussion, but when I saw "seasoned DBAs" reference, and I could not resist! First of all, seasoned DBAs would not use MS Access for database/server administration purposes, NEVER!!! Very rarely we use Enterprise Manager, OK? I have stopped using EM on a daily basis since 6.5, needless to say in 7.0 or 2K environment. How can a "seasoned DBA" even mention MS Access as a tool of choice, unless he/she is not really ... "seasoned"...??? Robert Djabarov SQL Server & UDB Sr. SQL Server Administrator (SEASONED) Phone: (210) 913-3148 Pager: (210) 753-3148 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 www.usaa.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:43 PM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Francisco, >> Are you kidding me? ?Access 2003 is sans ADP's!!!! :O. << OK, let me in on the joke. How else am I supposed to interpret this article by Arthur? (from builder.com newsletter, 9-Mar-2004): ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Enhance Enterprise Manager with Access Seasoned DBAs know that one of the best development environments available is virtually free, and it blows away the classic SQL Enterprise Manager. (Note: It's only free if you have a license for Microsoft Office 2000 or XP; it doesn't work for Office 2003.) Most companies that use SQL Server also use Office, and most of those firms have licensed the version that includes Access. That means that you can create a Microsoft Access project (ADP) file, which provides direct hooks into SQL Server. Once you create an ADP file, you can do almost everything that you can from Enterprise Manager, including create tables, views, stored procedures, and user-defined functions. You cannot create and execute DTS packages, set up logins and roles, etc., because Access is not meant to replace Enterprise Manager for these tasks. Follow these steps to set up this tool (this only works in Access 2000 or Access XP): 1. Create an ADP that points to the SQL database of your choice. Make sure that it connects successfully; this will depend upon several factors, such as integrated or separate login. 2. Look at the database window in Access. If you're using Access 2000, you'll see separate tabs for Queries and Stored Procedures. If you're using Access 2002 (XP), these two tabs have been rolled into one. 3. Create a new stored procedure or view. You'll discover that you have a wizard and a graphical environment in which you can drag and drop, double-click various columns from various tables, automatically join tables, and view what you're building as SQL rather than as a graphic. This is especially useful when building constructs such as SELECT TOP 10 .... Nobody said that graphical interfaces could do everything, but the beauty is that you can have it both ways. 4. Create either a scalar or a table function. 5. Follow the prompts and build something. Even if it's simple, it'll help you get a feel for the tool. Enterprise Manager is intended more for maintenance than for development. Several other companies offer alternatives, but at a substantial cost. Even if you can get a sign-off to license one of these third-party products, you should investigate Access ADP files before doing so. Chances are that you'll get almost all the functionality you want--and virtually for free. The real question is: Why did Microsoft kill ADP files in Access 2003? Possibly because they were so good that they made Enterprise Manager look foolish by comparison; or perhaps because Yukon is such a radical change that it would demand a complete rewrite of the relevant code. Your guess is as good as mine. Arthur Fuller has been developing database applications for 20 years. His experience includes Access ADPs, Microsoft SQL 2000, MySQL, and .NET. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 10 17:17:32 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:17:32 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article In-Reply-To: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3053ECCA@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> References: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3053ECCA@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> Message-ID: <404FA20C.5090104@verizon.net> Robert, I don't think I would ever mention Access ADP's as a tool of choice for administration tasks, however, Access in and of itself is a really neat tool in that you can create full featured front end systems which natively hook into SQLServer giving the developer the choice of such built in features such as NT authentication. Natively, no extra programming required. However, if you choose to use or not use EM, is all preferential. In fact for any Creation/Edit of Views/Sprocs and Functions, it's not an ideal choice. However for simple maintenance tasks such as table design, Diagram (PK-FK) joins. It's extreamly easy and quick to use versus typing out the entire contents in QA or some 3rd party tool which still uses DMO or TSQL to do the exact same thing. Not to mention DTS creation and management. Sure this can be done w/ 3rd party tools or w/ even hooking to they DTS libraries but why write all that code when it's all readily available in EM 2000. I've used EM since 7.0 so no I don't have long running history w/ previous versions, but the 2000 version is very neat and easy to use. While there are things that are annoying such as the small Sproc windows or un-smart view wizards, there is more to a SQL Server than creating views and sprocs. -- -Francisco Djabarov, Robert wrote: >I thought I would just ignore this discussion, but when I saw "seasoned DBAs" reference, and I could not resist! > >First of all, seasoned DBAs would not use MS Access for database/server administration purposes, NEVER!!! Very rarely we use Enterprise Manager, OK? I have stopped using EM on a daily basis since 6.5, needless to say in 7.0 or 2K environment. How can a "seasoned DBA" even mention MS Access as a tool of choice, unless he/she is not really ... "seasoned"...??? > > >Robert Djabarov >SQL Server & UDB >Sr. SQL Server Administrator (SEASONED) >Phone: (210) 913-3148 >Pager: (210) 753-3148 >9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 >www.usaa.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:43 PM >To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article > >Francisco, > > > >>>Are you kidding me? Access 2003 is sans ADP's!!!! :O. << >>> >>> > >OK, let me in on the joke. How else am I supposed to interpret this article by Arthur? (from builder.com newsletter, 9-Mar-2004): > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Enhance Enterprise Manager with Access > >Seasoned DBAs know that one of the best development environments available is virtually free, and it blows away the classic SQL Enterprise Manager. (Note: It's only free if you have a license for Microsoft Office 2000 or XP; it doesn't work for Office 2003.) > >Most companies that use SQL Server also use Office, and most of those firms have licensed the version that includes Access. That means that you can create a Microsoft Access project (ADP) file, which provides direct hooks into SQL Server. > >Once you create an ADP file, you can do almost everything that you can from Enterprise Manager, including create tables, views, stored procedures, and user-defined functions. You cannot create and execute DTS packages, set up logins and roles, etc., because Access is not meant to replace Enterprise Manager for these tasks. > >Follow these steps to set up this tool (this only works in Access 2000 or Access XP): > >1. Create an ADP that points to the SQL database of your choice. Make sure that it connects successfully; this will depend upon several factors, such as integrated or separate login. > >2. Look at the database window in Access. If you're using Access 2000, you'll see separate tabs for Queries and Stored Procedures. If you're using Access 2002 (XP), these two tabs have been rolled into one. > >3. Create a new stored procedure or view. You'll discover that you have a wizard and a graphical environment in which you can drag and drop, double-click various columns from various tables, automatically join tables, and view what you're building as SQL rather than as a graphic. This is especially useful when building constructs such as SELECT TOP 10 .... Nobody said that graphical interfaces could do everything, but the beauty is that you can have it both ways. > >4. Create either a scalar or a table function. > >5. Follow the prompts and build something. Even if it's simple, it'll help you get a feel for the tool. > >Enterprise Manager is intended more for maintenance than for development. Several other companies offer alternatives, but at a substantial cost. Even if you can get a sign-off to license one of these third-party products, you should investigate Access ADP files before doing so. Chances are that you'll get almost all the functionality you want--and virtually for free. > >The real question is: Why did Microsoft kill ADP files in Access 2003? Possibly because they were so good that they made Enterprise Manager look foolish by comparison; or perhaps because Yukon is such a radical change that it would demand a complete rewrite of the relevant code. Your guess is as good as mine. > >Arthur Fuller has been developing database applications for 20 years. His experience includes Access ADPs, Microsoft SQL 2000, MySQL, and .NET. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Regards, > >Steve Erbach > > From serbach at new.rr.com Wed Mar 10 17:20:49 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:20:49 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Message-ID: <20040310172049.1759186775.serbach@new.rr.com> Robert, >> First of all, seasoned DBAs would not use MS Access for database/server administration purposes, NEVER!!! << That may be. However Arthur referred to using Access as a development tool/environment. But even so, if you don't use Enterprise Manager, what do you use? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 10 19:28:01 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:28:01 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article References: <20040310172049.1759186775.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <404FC0A1.5020401@shaw.ca> If I am stuck on a site without EM (only using MSDE), I know you can install a sixty day version of SQL 2000 and keep EM up. But I use this one from Andrea Montanari (recently got an MVP) DbaMgr - DbaMgr2k http://www.asql.biz/DbaMgr.shtm You can also get all the VB6 source code with the DMO API calls for the program. Good learning tool. Also see Roger Jennings article for a more simplified and restricted vb6 version http://www.ftponline.com/vsm/2003_06/magazine/columns/databasedesign/default.aspx I have seen Access commercial programs that are used to administer MySQL tables. I almost wrote my own to admin SapDB 7.3 (MaxDB) tables. Steven W. Erbach wrote: >Robert, > > > >>>First of all, seasoned DBAs would not use MS Access for database/server administration purposes, NEVER!!! << >>> >>> > >That may be. However Arthur referred to using Access as a development tool/environment. But even so, if you don't use Enterprise Manager, what do you use? > >Regards, > >Steve Erbach >Scientific Marketing >Neenah, WI >920-969-0504 > >Security and Virus information: >http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm > >_______________________________________________ >dba-SQLServer mailing list >dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Wed Mar 10 22:32:52 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:02:52 +1030 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Message-ID: You *can* create ADP's in Access 2003. Full stop. -----Original Message----- From: Steven W. Erbach [mailto:serbach at new.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, 11 March 2004 9:09 AM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Francisco, I'm just trying to find out the real deal. Mr. Barash says you can create ADPs in A2003. Mr. Connelly says that he's used them in A2003. Mr. Fuller says Microsoft "killed" 'em. Mr. Brosdorf wonders what the heck's going on...and so do I. So what's the deal? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From serbach at new.rr.com Thu Mar 11 07:25:58 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:25:58 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Message-ID: <20040311072558.463536556.serbach@new.rr.com> Andrew, >> You *can* create ADP's in Access 2003. ? Full stop. << Arthur? What's the hu-hu, as Heinlein used to say? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm From Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com Thu Mar 11 08:37:32 2004 From: Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com (Djabarov, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:37:32 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Message-ID: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C819@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> 90% of the time it's QA, the other 10 are shared by Profiler, PerfMon, and a couple of specialty tools like DBArtisan, SQLLiteSpeed, SQLCompare, etc. Robert Djabarov SQL Server & UDB Sr. SQL Server Administrator Phone: (210) 913-3148 Pager: (210) 753-3148 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 www.usaa.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of James Barash Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:06 PM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article If I may ask, what do you use for administration if not EM? As a programmer who occasionally must act as a very unseasoned DBA, I'll always looking for better tools. James Barash -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Djabarov, Robert Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:45 PM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article I thought I would just ignore this discussion, but when I saw "seasoned DBAs" reference, and I could not resist! First of all, seasoned DBAs would not use MS Access for database/server administration purposes, NEVER!!! Very rarely we use Enterprise Manager, OK? I have stopped using EM on a daily basis since 6.5, needless to say in 7.0 or 2K environment. How can a "seasoned DBA" even mention MS Access as a tool of choice, unless he/she is not really ... "seasoned"...??? Robert Djabarov SQL Server & UDB Sr. SQL Server Administrator (SEASONED) Phone: (210) 913-3148 Pager: (210) 753-3148 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 www.usaa.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:43 PM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Francisco, >> Are you kidding me? ?Access 2003 is sans ADP's!!!! :O. << OK, let me in on the joke. How else am I supposed to interpret this article by Arthur? (from builder.com newsletter, 9-Mar-2004): ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Enhance Enterprise Manager with Access Seasoned DBAs know that one of the best development environments available is virtually free, and it blows away the classic SQL Enterprise Manager. (Note: It's only free if you have a license for Microsoft Office 2000 or XP; it doesn't work for Office 2003.) Most companies that use SQL Server also use Office, and most of those firms have licensed the version that includes Access. That means that you can create a Microsoft Access project (ADP) file, which provides direct hooks into SQL Server. Once you create an ADP file, you can do almost everything that you can from Enterprise Manager, including create tables, views, stored procedures, and user-defined functions. You cannot create and execute DTS packages, set up logins and roles, etc., because Access is not meant to replace Enterprise Manager for these tasks. Follow these steps to set up this tool (this only works in Access 2000 or Access XP): 1. Create an ADP that points to the SQL database of your choice. Make sure that it connects successfully; this will depend upon several factors, such as integrated or separate login. 2. Look at the database window in Access. If you're using Access 2000, you'll see separate tabs for Queries and Stored Procedures. If you're using Access 2002 (XP), these two tabs have been rolled into one. 3. Create a new stored procedure or view. You'll discover that you have a wizard and a graphical environment in which you can drag and drop, double-click various columns from various tables, automatically join tables, and view what you're building as SQL rather than as a graphic. This is especially useful when building constructs such as SELECT TOP 10 .... Nobody said that graphical interfaces could do everything, but the beauty is that you can have it both ways. 4. Create either a scalar or a table function. 5. Follow the prompts and build something. Even if it's simple, it'll help you get a feel for the tool. Enterprise Manager is intended more for maintenance than for development. Several other companies offer alternatives, but at a substantial cost. Even if you can get a sign-off to license one of these third-party products, you should investigate Access ADP files before doing so. Chances are that you'll get almost all the functionality you want--and virtually for free. The real question is: Why did Microsoft kill ADP files in Access 2003? Possibly because they were so good that they made Enterprise Manager look foolish by comparison; or perhaps because Yukon is such a radical change that it would demand a complete rewrite of the relevant code. Your guess is as good as mine. Arthur Fuller has been developing database applications for 20 years. His experience includes Access ADPs, Microsoft SQL 2000, MySQL, and .NET. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com Thu Mar 11 08:44:10 2004 From: Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com (Djabarov, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:44:10 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Message-ID: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3053ECCB@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> Hey, a little hint about small windows and maybe wrong font, - you can customize it to your needs and it will stay that way for every view/procedure/function/trigger/etc. And of course, I use it occasionally, but it doesn't even fit 1% of the time compared to other tools. BTW, creating objects using EM is not a good idea, especially if the desired result of the effort is a distributable product. Robert Djabarov SQL Server & UDB Sr. SQL Server Administrator Phone: (210) 913-3148 Pager: (210) 753-3148 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 www.usaa.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:18 PM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Robert, I don't think I would ever mention Access ADP's as a tool of choice for administration tasks, however, Access in and of itself is a really neat tool in that you can create full featured front end systems which natively hook into SQLServer giving the developer the choice of such built in features such as NT authentication. Natively, no extra programming required. However, if you choose to use or not use EM, is all preferential. In fact for any Creation/Edit of Views/Sprocs and Functions, it's not an ideal choice. However for simple maintenance tasks such as table design, Diagram (PK-FK) joins. It's extreamly easy and quick to use versus typing out the entire contents in QA or some 3rd party tool which still uses DMO or TSQL to do the exact same thing. Not to mention DTS creation and management. Sure this can be done w/ 3rd party tools or w/ even hooking to they DTS libraries but why write all that code when it's all readily available in EM 2000. I've used EM since 7.0 so no I don't have long running history w/ previous versions, but the 2000 version is very neat and easy to use. While there are things that are annoying such as the small Sproc windows or un-smart view wizards, there is more to a SQL Server than creating views and sprocs. -- -Francisco Djabarov, Robert wrote: >I thought I would just ignore this discussion, but when I saw "seasoned DBAs" reference, and I could not resist! > >First of all, seasoned DBAs would not use MS Access for database/server administration purposes, NEVER!!! Very rarely we use Enterprise Manager, OK? I have stopped using EM on a daily basis since 6.5, needless to say in 7.0 or 2K environment. How can a "seasoned DBA" even mention MS Access as a tool of choice, unless he/she is not really ... "seasoned"...??? > > >Robert Djabarov >SQL Server & UDB >Sr. SQL Server Administrator (SEASONED) >Phone: (210) 913-3148 >Pager: (210) 753-3148 >9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 >www.usaa.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:43 PM >To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article > >Francisco, > > > >>>Are you kidding me? Access 2003 is sans ADP's!!!! :O. << >>> >>> > >OK, let me in on the joke. How else am I supposed to interpret this article by Arthur? (from builder.com newsletter, 9-Mar-2004): > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Enhance Enterprise Manager with Access > >Seasoned DBAs know that one of the best development environments available is virtually free, and it blows away the classic SQL Enterprise Manager. (Note: It's only free if you have a license for Microsoft Office 2000 or XP; it doesn't work for Office 2003.) > >Most companies that use SQL Server also use Office, and most of those firms have licensed the version that includes Access. That means that you can create a Microsoft Access project (ADP) file, which provides direct hooks into SQL Server. > >Once you create an ADP file, you can do almost everything that you can from Enterprise Manager, including create tables, views, stored procedures, and user-defined functions. You cannot create and execute DTS packages, set up logins and roles, etc., because Access is not meant to replace Enterprise Manager for these tasks. > >Follow these steps to set up this tool (this only works in Access 2000 or Access XP): > >1. Create an ADP that points to the SQL database of your choice. Make sure that it connects successfully; this will depend upon several factors, such as integrated or separate login. > >2. Look at the database window in Access. If you're using Access 2000, you'll see separate tabs for Queries and Stored Procedures. If you're using Access 2002 (XP), these two tabs have been rolled into one. > >3. Create a new stored procedure or view. You'll discover that you have a wizard and a graphical environment in which you can drag and drop, double-click various columns from various tables, automatically join tables, and view what you're building as SQL rather than as a graphic. This is especially useful when building constructs such as SELECT TOP 10 .... Nobody said that graphical interfaces could do everything, but the beauty is that you can have it both ways. > >4. Create either a scalar or a table function. > >5. Follow the prompts and build something. Even if it's simple, it'll help you get a feel for the tool. > >Enterprise Manager is intended more for maintenance than for development. Several other companies offer alternatives, but at a substantial cost. Even if you can get a sign-off to license one of these third-party products, you should investigate Access ADP files before doing so. Chances are that you'll get almost all the functionality you want--and virtually for free. > >The real question is: Why did Microsoft kill ADP files in Access 2003? Possibly because they were so good that they made Enterprise Manager look foolish by comparison; or perhaps because Yukon is such a radical change that it would demand a complete rewrite of the relevant code. Your guess is as good as mine. > >Arthur Fuller has been developing database applications for 20 years. His experience includes Access ADPs, Microsoft SQL 2000, MySQL, and .NET. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Regards, > >Steve Erbach > > _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com Thu Mar 11 08:44:44 2004 From: Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com (Djabarov, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:44:44 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Message-ID: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C81B@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> See previous post. Robert Djabarov SQL Server & UDB Sr. SQL Server Administrator Phone: (210) 913-3148 Pager: (210) 753-3148 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 www.usaa.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:21 PM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Robert, >> First of all, seasoned DBAs would not use MS Access for database/server administration purposes, NEVER!!! << That may be. However Arthur referred to using Access as a development tool/environment. But even so, if you don't use Enterprise Manager, what do you use? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Thu Mar 11 09:37:16 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:37:16 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] MS Access 2003 and ADP In-Reply-To: <200403111444.i2BEiqM18427@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040311093612.02946910@pop3.highstream.net> The ADP is very much alive and well in 2003. I am using that version to teach Access at a users group and use the ADP over 50% of the time. Robert From my.lists at verizon.net Thu Mar 11 12:20:38 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:20:38 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article In-Reply-To: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C819@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> References: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C819@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> Message-ID: <4050ADF6.3080900@verizon.net> If you're using QA 90% of the time, why spend the $1000 on DBArtisan? afterall you can script your objects from EM.... -- Francisco Djabarov, Robert wrote: >90% of the time it's QA, the other 10 are shared by Profiler, PerfMon, and a couple of specialty tools like DBArtisan, SQLLiteSpeed, SQLCompare, etc. > > > >Robert Djabarov >SQL Server & UDB >Sr. SQL Server Administrator >Phone: (210) 913-3148 >Pager: (210) 753-3148 >9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 >www.usaa.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of James Barash >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:06 PM >To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article > >If I may ask, what do you use for administration if not EM? As a programmer >who occasionally must act as a very unseasoned DBA, I'll always looking for >better tools. > >James Barash > > From Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com Thu Mar 11 12:47:12 2004 From: Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com (Djabarov, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:47:12 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Message-ID: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3053ECCC@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> Actually, the reason I use DBArtisan is not for scripting objects (BTW, QA does a much better job scripting, unless you need a mass scripting of all objects). In fact, DBArtisan is too buggy to rely on its accuracy of object order and dependency. The only feature I like in DBArtisan is current activity set of screens. And this tool is not my choice, so I just have it on my PC. Robert Djabarov SQL Server & UDB Sr. SQL Server Administrator Phone: (210) 913-3148 Pager: (210) 753-3148 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 www.usaa.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:21 PM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article If you're using QA 90% of the time, why spend the $1000 on DBArtisan? afterall you can script your objects from EM.... -- Francisco Djabarov, Robert wrote: >90% of the time it's QA, the other 10 are shared by Profiler, PerfMon, and a couple of specialty tools like DBArtisan, SQLLiteSpeed, SQLCompare, etc. > > > >Robert Djabarov >SQL Server & UDB >Sr. SQL Server Administrator >Phone: (210) 913-3148 >Pager: (210) 753-3148 >9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 >www.usaa.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of James Barash >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:06 PM >To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article > >If I may ask, what do you use for administration if not EM? As a programmer >who occasionally must act as a very unseasoned DBA, I'll always looking for >better tools. > >James Barash > > _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Mar 11 22:34:20 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:34:20 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article In-Reply-To: <20040310083148.2052010050.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <005101c407eb$49ea7e30$6501a8c0@rock> I was wrong and am embarrassed to have written that. I was using the beta when I wrote that and subsequent events made me look like an idiot. I apologize to you all. I too have devoted most of the last few years to ADP, to the point where now I am working on an MDB app and have forgotten a huge amount of the old way of doing things. I screwed up big time and did it in public and lots of people read it and I am quite embarrassed about my screw-up. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:32 AM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Arthur, While I haven't devoted much time to keeping up with SQL Server developments I do subscribe to a couple SQL Server newsletters: SQL Server Central and Builder.com. My eyes lit on the headline "Enhance Enterprise Manager with Access." I thought to myself I thought, "Self, isn't that what Arthur Fuller has recommended lo! these many eons?" I read through to the bottom of the article and, sure enough, there's your moniker. There was also the open question, "Why did Microsoft kill ADP files in Access 2003?" I remember some time back before Access 2003 came out you were biting your tongue in the groups here because you were under an NDA. The only thing I remember you saying was something about how disappointed you were with Microsoft's direction with Access. In Access 2003 are we reduced to using ADO in code to get at SQL Server data? I suppose that ODBC is still an option if one wants to have direct manipulation of SQL Server tables, right? Sorry if these are naive questions; I've been wandering for a while. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Mar 11 22:45:39 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:45:39 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article In-Reply-To: <20040310083148.2052010050.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <000001c407ec$df356030$6501a8c0@rock> I erred and made a fool of myself in public. The really ironic part of it is that I'm developing an ADP in 2003 but shipping 2002-compatible code and I forgot that I'm using 2003. In short, I'm a fool and don't trust anything I say or write. Very sorry for this error, folks. Now I am totally aware of the meaning of the word "chagrined". I could try and foist some of the blame upon my brilliant editor at builder.com but that would compound my errors. It's not her fault that this slipped through. It's all upon me. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:32 AM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Arthur, While I haven't devoted much time to keeping up with SQL Server developments I do subscribe to a couple SQL Server newsletters: SQL Server Central and Builder.com. My eyes lit on the headline "Enhance Enterprise Manager with Access." I thought to myself I thought, "Self, isn't that what Arthur Fuller has recommended lo! these many eons?" I read through to the bottom of the article and, sure enough, there's your moniker. There was also the open question, "Why did Microsoft kill ADP files in Access 2003?" I remember some time back before Access 2003 came out you were biting your tongue in the groups here because you were under an NDA. The only thing I remember you saying was something about how disappointed you were with Microsoft's direction with Access. In Access 2003 are we reduced to using ADO in code to get at SQL Server data? I suppose that ODBC is still an option if one wants to have direct manipulation of SQL Server tables, right? Sorry if these are naive questions; I've been wandering for a while. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 11 19:52:39 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:52:39 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article In-Reply-To: <005101c407eb$49ea7e30$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Well Arthur: Just a minor diversion... I have made a couple in my career and looking back on them, everyone forgets in ten plus years :-)... (just teasing). You have nothing to be embarrassed about, as far as I am concerned. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:34 PM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article I was wrong and am embarrassed to have written that. I was using the beta when I wrote that and subsequent events made me look like an idiot. I apologize to you all. I too have devoted most of the last few years to ADP, to the point where now I am working on an MDB app and have forgotten a huge amount of the old way of doing things. I screwed up big time and did it in public and lots of people read it and I am quite embarrassed about my screw-up. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:32 AM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Arthur, While I haven't devoted much time to keeping up with SQL Server developments I do subscribe to a couple SQL Server newsletters: SQL Server Central and Builder.com. My eyes lit on the headline "Enhance Enterprise Manager with Access." I thought to myself I thought, "Self, isn't that what Arthur Fuller has recommended lo! these many eons?" I read through to the bottom of the article and, sure enough, there's your moniker. There was also the open question, "Why did Microsoft kill ADP files in Access 2003?" I remember some time back before Access 2003 came out you were biting your tongue in the groups here because you were under an NDA. The only thing I remember you saying was something about how disappointed you were with Microsoft's direction with Access. In Access 2003 are we reduced to using ADO in code to get at SQL Server data? I suppose that ODBC is still an option if one wants to have direct manipulation of SQL Server tables, right? Sorry if these are naive questions; I've been wandering for a while. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Thu Mar 11 20:42:09 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:12:09 +1030 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Message-ID: Forget about it!! I doubt anyone will be losing their job over it. Not the end of the world. -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Friday, 12 March 2004 3:16 PM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article I erred and made a fool of myself in public. The really ironic part of it is that I'm developing an ADP in 2003 but shipping 2002-compatible code and I forgot that I'm using 2003. In short, I'm a fool and don't trust anything I say or write. Very sorry for this error, folks. Now I am totally aware of the meaning of the word "chagrined". I could try and foist some of the blame upon my brilliant editor at builder.com but that would compound my errors. It's not her fault that this slipped through. It's all upon me. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:32 AM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Arthur, While I haven't devoted much time to keeping up with SQL Server developments I do subscribe to a couple SQL Server newsletters: SQL Server Central and Builder.com. My eyes lit on the headline "Enhance Enterprise Manager with Access." I thought to myself I thought, "Self, isn't that what Arthur Fuller has recommended lo! these many eons?" I read through to the bottom of the article and, sure enough, there's your moniker. There was also the open question, "Why did Microsoft kill ADP files in Access 2003?" I remember some time back before Access 2003 came out you were biting your tongue in the groups here because you were under an NDA. The only thing I remember you saying was something about how disappointed you were with Microsoft's direction with Access. In Access 2003 are we reduced to using ADO in code to get at SQL Server data? I suppose that ODBC is still an option if one wants to have direct manipulation of SQL Server tables, right? Sorry if these are naive questions; I've been wandering for a while. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From knicholson at gpsx.net Fri Mar 12 06:46:49 2004 From: knicholson at gpsx.net (Nicholson, Karen) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:46:49 -0500 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Message-ID: Dear Arthur: Thank you for writing your article as I did not know that I could create an ADP that interfaces wonderfully with SQL. I went from contract Access development to being an SQL corporate person, never realizing I could interface Access with SQL so easily. -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 11:34 PM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article I was wrong and am embarrassed to have written that. I was using the beta when I wrote that and subsequent events made me look like an idiot. I apologize to you all. I too have devoted most of the last few years to ADP, to the point where now I am working on an MDB app and have forgotten a huge amount of the old way of doing things. I screwed up big time and did it in public and lots of people read it and I am quite embarrassed about my screw-up. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:32 AM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Arthur, While I haven't devoted much time to keeping up with SQL Server developments I do subscribe to a couple SQL Server newsletters: SQL Server Central and Builder.com. My eyes lit on the headline "Enhance Enterprise Manager with Access." I thought to myself I thought, "Self, isn't that what Arthur Fuller has recommended lo! these many eons?" I read through to the bottom of the article and, sure enough, there's your moniker. There was also the open question, "Why did Microsoft kill ADP files in Access 2003?" I remember some time back before Access 2003 came out you were biting your tongue in the groups here because you were under an NDA. The only thing I remember you saying was something about how disappointed you were with Microsoft's direction with Access. In Access 2003 are we reduced to using ADO in code to get at SQL Server data? I suppose that ODBC is still an option if one wants to have direct manipulation of SQL Server tables, right? Sorry if these are naive questions; I've been wandering for a while. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Fri Mar 12 08:11:50 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:11:50 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Message-ID: <20040312081150.304075754.serbach@new.rr.com> Arthur, As far as a mortal can absolve anyone, I absolve thee, Arthur. So stop groveling and keep giving good advice, for Pete's sake! Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "I think that the send button actually turns brains on." -- Bryan Carbonnell From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 12 08:31:30 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:31:30 +1000 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article In-Reply-To: <20040312081150.304075754.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <40525662.14732.38A16CD@localhost> On 12 Mar 2004 at 8:11, Steven W. Erbach wrote: > Arthur, > > As far as a mortal can absolve anyone, I absolve thee, Arthur. So stop groveling and keep giving good advice, for Pete's sake! > As an ordained minister in the Universal Life Church (http://www.ulc.org), allow me to do it..... Athur , I absolve thee. :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 12 10:09:30 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:09:30 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article In-Reply-To: <005101c407eb$49ea7e30$6501a8c0@rock> References: <005101c407eb$49ea7e30$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <4051E0BA.30109@verizon.net> Arthur Fuller wrote: > >I screwed up big time and did it in public and lots of people read it >and I am quite embarrassed about my screw-up. > > Arthur it's not a big deal, as everyone makes mistakes. altho like you've done in the past in your articles about yukon, it'd be a good idea to state you were using a beta version so as to clear up any possible confusion in the future. :) no worries -- -Francisco From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Fri Mar 12 10:39:12 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:39:12 -0500 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] decimal datatype is rounding Message-ID: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E23971B@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Hi All, I have a table with a column of data type decimal with precision set to 10 and scale set to 2. I add records to this table using an ADO 2.7 command object. In the command object I create a parameter with type adDecimal and set the Precision and NumericScale properties accordingly. In the stored procedure I have a variable to receive the value with type decimal. I assign the value of 1.5 to the command object, execute the command object and the value that gets stored in the table is 2. Anyone know why this rounding is taking place? For a temporary work around, I change the data type to Money in the table and adCurrency in the command object. For some reason this seems to work fine. Thanks! JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com Fri Mar 12 11:14:35 2004 From: Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com (Djabarov, Robert) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:14:35 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] decimal datatype is rounding Message-ID: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C81F@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> How did you determine that the value stored is 2? By running SELECT? Is it possible that your Regional settings is doing it to you? Also check in Tools/Options/Connection if "Use Regional settings..." is checked. Robert Djabarov SQL Server & UDB Sr. SQL Server Administrator Phone: (210) 913-3148 Pager: (210) 753-3148 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 www.usaa.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Joe Rojas Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:39 AM To: 'dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [dba-SQLServer] decimal datatype is rounding Hi All, I have a table with a column of data type decimal with precision set to 10 and scale set to 2. I add records to this table using an ADO 2.7 command object. In the command object I create a parameter with type adDecimal and set the Precision and NumericScale properties accordingly. In the stored procedure I have a variable to receive the value with type decimal. I assign the value of 1.5 to the command object, execute the command object and the value that gets stored in the table is 2. Anyone know why this rounding is taking place? For a temporary work around, I change the data type to Money in the table and adCurrency in the command object. For some reason this seems to work fine. Thanks! JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael.broesdorf at web.de Fri Mar 12 11:28:05 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?us-ascii?Q?Michael_Brosdorf?=) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:28:05 +0100 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Sending emails from SQL-Server In-Reply-To: <40525662.14732.38A16CD@localhost> Message-ID: Hi everyone, what is the best way to send emails directly from an SQL-Server machine? Does Outlook need to be installed on it? Michael From Christopher.Brophy at GDC4S.Com Fri Mar 12 11:55:08 2004 From: Christopher.Brophy at GDC4S.Com (Brophy, Christopher) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:55:08 -0500 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Sending emails from SQL-Server Message-ID: <2F942F48C241044D94A10213C8D99F9CE1BF66@ndhmex01.ndhm.gd-ns.com> Check out xp_smtp_sendmail. It is the easiest way to go. http://www.sqldev.net/xp/xpsmtp.htm Chris -----Original Message----- From: Michael Brosdorf [mailto:michael.broesdorf at web.de] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 12:28 PM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Sending emails from SQL-Server Hi everyone, what is the best way to send emails directly from an SQL-Server machine? Does Outlook need to be installed on it? Michael _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Mar 12 13:40:52 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:40:52 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Sending emails from SQL-Server References: Message-ID: <40521244.50204@shaw.ca> You need to run a service either SQLMail or SQLAgentMail with Outlook or Exchange. http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3113251 http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/2168291 Use with SP's like sp_processmail or xp_sendmail Michael Brosdorf wrote: >Hi everyone, > >what is the best way to send emails directly from an SQL-Server machine? >Does Outlook need to be installed on it? > >Michael >_______________________________________________ >dba-SQLServer mailing list >dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Fri Mar 12 15:01:23 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:01:23 -0500 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] decimal datatype is rounding Message-ID: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E23971C@mercury.tnco-inc.com> I looked in the table. Open Table -> Return All Rows I verified that my table could store a value like 1.5 by manually modifing a row and it worked fine. I should also mention that I am using SS7. JR -----Original Message----- From: Djabarov, Robert [mailto:Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 12:15 PM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] decimal datatype is rounding How did you determine that the value stored is 2? By running SELECT? Is it possible that your Regional settings is doing it to you? Also check in Tools/Options/Connection if "Use Regional settings..." is checked. Robert Djabarov SQL Server & UDB Sr. SQL Server Administrator Phone: (210) 913-3148 Pager: (210) 753-3148 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 www.usaa.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Joe Rojas Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:39 AM To: 'dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [dba-SQLServer] decimal datatype is rounding Hi All, I have a table with a column of data type decimal with precision set to 10 and scale set to 2. I add records to this table using an ADO 2.7 command object. In the command object I create a parameter with type adDecimal and set the Precision and NumericScale properties accordingly. In the stored procedure I have a variable to receive the value with type decimal. I assign the value of 1.5 to the command object, execute the command object and the value that gets stored in the table is 2. Anyone know why this rounding is taking place? For a temporary work around, I change the data type to Money in the table and adCurrency in the command object. For some reason this seems to work fine. Thanks! JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From artful at rogers.com Sat Mar 13 14:11:24 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:11:24 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article In-Reply-To: <20040312081150.304075754.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <009b01c40937$5c551e70$6501a8c0@rock> Hee hee hee hee hee. Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 6:12 AM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Arthur, As far as a mortal can absolve anyone, I absolve thee, Arthur. So stop groveling and keep giving good advice, for Pete's sake! Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "I think that the send button actually turns brains on." -- Bryan Carbonnell _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sat Mar 13 14:11:36 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:11:36 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <009c01c40937$634edae0$6501a8c0@rock> Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Nicholson, Karen Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 4:47 AM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Dear Arthur: Thank you for writing your article as I did not know that I could create an ADP that interfaces wonderfully with SQL. I went from contract Access development to being an SQL corporate person, never realizing I could interface Access with SQL so easily. -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 11:34 PM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article I was wrong and am embarrassed to have written that. I was using the beta when I wrote that and subsequent events made me look like an idiot. I apologize to you all. I too have devoted most of the last few years to ADP, to the point where now I am working on an MDB app and have forgotten a huge amount of the old way of doing things. I screwed up big time and did it in public and lots of people read it and I am quite embarrassed about my screw-up. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:32 AM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article Arthur, While I haven't devoted much time to keeping up with SQL Server developments I do subscribe to a couple SQL Server newsletters: SQL Server Central and Builder.com. My eyes lit on the headline "Enhance Enterprise Manager with Access." I thought to myself I thought, "Self, isn't that what Arthur Fuller has recommended lo! these many eons?" I read through to the bottom of the article and, sure enough, there's your moniker. There was also the open question, "Why did Microsoft kill ADP files in Access 2003?" I remember some time back before Access 2003 came out you were biting your tongue in the groups here because you were under an NDA. The only thing I remember you saying was something about how disappointed you were with Microsoft's direction with Access. In Access 2003 are we reduced to using ADO in code to get at SQL Server data? I suppose that ODBC is still an option if one wants to have direct manipulation of SQL Server tables, right? Sorry if these are naive questions; I've been wandering for a while. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sun Mar 14 20:05:36 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:05:36 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article References: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C819@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> <4050ADF6.3080900@verizon.net> Message-ID: <40550F70.6040702@shaw.ca> For those of you who like TOAD for Oracle, there is now a version for MS SQL 2000. It appears to work for MSDE too. So might be handy for those without Enterprise Manager trying to use ADP's. http://www.toadsoft.com/toadss.html TOAD is an application development tool built around an advanced Data Browser and a SQL and T-SQL editor. Using TOAD, developers can build and test T-SQL code and can use the Data Browser to quickly access, create and edit database objects. TOAD lets you view tables, indexes, stored procedures and more - all through a multi-tabbed browser. Francisco H Tapia wrote: > If you're using QA 90% of the time, why spend the $1000 on DBArtisan? > afterall you can script your objects from EM.... > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 15 02:23:38 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:23:38 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article In-Reply-To: <40550F70.6040702@shaw.ca> Message-ID: Yes, love TOAD as it is one of my main work tools. I will check that out. (You should have been working on your lawns and gardens this weekend.) Thanks Marty Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 6:06 PM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] Arthur's article For those of you who like TOAD for Oracle, there is now a version for MS SQL 2000. It appears to work for MSDE too. So might be handy for those without Enterprise Manager trying to use ADP's. http://www.toadsoft.com/toadss.html TOAD is an application development tool built around an advanced Data Browser and a SQL and T-SQL editor. Using TOAD, developers can build and test T-SQL code and can use the Data Browser to quickly access, create and edit database objects. TOAD lets you view tables, indexes, stored procedures and more - all through a multi-tabbed browser. Francisco H Tapia wrote: > If you're using QA 90% of the time, why spend the $1000 on DBArtisan? > afterall you can script your objects from EM.... > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Mar 15 03:04:56 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:04:56 -0000 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] any ideas References: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C819@ex02.eagle.usaa.com><4050ADF6.3080900@verizon.net> <40550F70.6040702@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <004201c40a6c$96540150$9111758f@aine> Any ideas, a question from a friend of mine re using a third party backup utility on the PC. Here's the question: When I am NOT working on SQL, and the SQL Service Manager says that the Service is not started, Second Copy still reports "File in Use" for all of the files in the SQL Server. That means that they are not being backed up. Looking at the Services in Windows, I see that SQLAgent$FILENAME and SQLSERVERAGENT are both shown as Startup Type: Manual and Status: Not Started (blank). So if SQL is not started, what is tying up the files? I would like to keep them backed up. Martin From my.lists at verizon.net Mon Mar 15 10:17:19 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:17:19 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] re: any ideas Message-ID: <4055D70F.1010800@verizon.net> IMHO, sql server backups are best, but to each their own... in any case you are mentioning only the agent name but not the SQLSERVER service. -- -Francisco Martin Reid wrote: >Any ideas, a question from a friend of mine re using a third party backup >utility on the PC. > >Here's the question: When I am NOT working on SQL, and the SQL Service >Manager says that the Service is not started, Second Copy still reports >"File in Use" for all of the files in the SQL Server. That means that they >are not being backed up. Looking at the Services in Windows, I see that >SQLAgent$FILENAME and SQLSERVERAGENT are both shown as Startup Type: Manual >and Status: Not Started (blank). So if SQL is not started, what is tying up >the files? I would like to keep them backed up. > >Martin > > > > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Mar 15 10:21:11 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:21:11 -0000 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] re: any ideas References: <4055D70F.1010800@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000901c40aa9$878704a0$9111758f@aine> I agree but its not one of mine. Tehy back up a couple of PCs in this manner then take that backup to removable HDD. Do you think the SQLService is therefore running when they do this? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francisco H Tapia" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 4:17 PM Subject: [dba-SQLServer] re: any ideas > IMHO, sql server backups are best, but to each their own... in any case > you are mentioning only the agent name but not the SQLSERVER service. > > > -- > -Francisco > > Martin Reid wrote: > > > >Any ideas, a question from a friend of mine re using a third party backup > >utility on the PC. > > > >Here's the question: When I am NOT working on SQL, and the SQL Service > >Manager says that the Service is not started, Second Copy still reports > >"File in Use" for all of the files in the SQL Server. That means that they > >are not being backed up. Looking at the Services in Windows, I see that > >SQLAgent$FILENAME and SQLSERVERAGENT are both shown as Startup Type: Manual > >and Status: Not Started (blank). So if SQL is not started, what is tying up > >the files? I would like to keep them backed up. > > > >Martin > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-SQLServer mailing list > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From artful at rogers.com Mon Mar 15 13:50:06 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:50:06 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] re: any ideas In-Reply-To: <000901c40aa9$878704a0$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <023e01c40ac6$bdb9cf90$6501a8c0@rock> I'm not sure about that part, but I'm with Francisco on this one. Schedule some SQL backups at frequency to suit, and then have the friend's backup software backup the backup directory, not the data directory. At ETS I scheduled 4 backups a day and never had to bring down the server to do so, and they were remarkably quick. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 8:21 AM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] re: any ideas I agree but its not one of mine. Tehy back up a couple of PCs in this manner then take that backup to removable HDD. Do you think the SQLService is therefore running when they do this? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francisco H Tapia" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 4:17 PM Subject: [dba-SQLServer] re: any ideas > IMHO, sql server backups are best, but to each their own... in any > case you are mentioning only the agent name but not the SQLSERVER > service. > > > -- > -Francisco > > Martin Reid wrote: > > > >Any ideas, a question from a friend of mine re using a third party > >backup utility on the PC. > > > >Here's the question: When I am NOT working on SQL, and the SQL > >Service Manager says that the Service is not started, Second Copy > >still reports "File in Use" for all of the files in the SQL Server. > >That means that they > >are not being backed up. Looking at the Services in Windows, I see > >that SQLAgent$FILENAME and SQLSERVERAGENT are both shown as Startup > >Type: Manual > >and Status: Not Started (blank). So if SQL is not started, what is > >tying up > >the files? I would like to keep them backed up. > > > >Martin > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-SQLServer mailing list > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Mon Mar 15 11:12:57 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:12:57 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] re: any ideas In-Reply-To: <000901c40aa9$878704a0$9111758f@aine> References: <4055D70F.1010800@verizon.net> <000901c40aa9$878704a0$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <4055E419.7020808@verizon.net> In your first post you mentioned that they turn off the sqlAgent$filenme and sqlserveragent are both shown as manual, but check the service marked MSSQLSERVER, have them check that it is stopped allong with the agents and then attempt the cold back up at that point. And if it's not to forward, find out why they choose COLD backups over warm backups.. and IIRC, you can't just slap in the mdf/ldf files if a catastrophy where to occur and expect the server to run fine. In a good backup procedure you always have at some point a test to see if your backup plan works. At my site, I run backups regularly but I also do TEST the backups on our local test boxes and also at home. just my 2cents... Martin Reid wrote: >I agree but its not one of mine. Tehy back up a couple of PCs in this manner >then take that backup to removable HDD. > >Do you think the SQLService is therefore running when they do this? > >Martin > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Francisco H Tapia" >To: >Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 4:17 PM >Subject: [dba-SQLServer] re: any ideas > > > > >>IMHO, sql server backups are best, but to each their own... in any case >>you are mentioning only the agent name but not the SQLSERVER service. >> >> >>-- >>-Francisco >> >>Martin Reid wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>Any ideas, a question from a friend of mine re using a third party backup >>>utility on the PC. >>> >>>Here's the question: When I am NOT working on SQL, and the SQL Service >>>Manager says that the Service is not started, Second Copy still reports >>>"File in Use" for all of the files in the SQL Server. That means that >>> >>> >they > > >>>are not being backed up. Looking at the Services in Windows, I see that >>>SQLAgent$FILENAME and SQLSERVERAGENT are both shown as Startup Type: >>> >>> >Manual > > >>>and Status: Not Started (blank). So if SQL is not started, what is tying >>> >>> >up > > >>>the files? I would like to keep them backed up. >>> >>>Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-SQLServer mailing list >>dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver >>http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >dba-SQLServer mailing list >dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- -Francisco From djkr at msn.com Mon Mar 15 14:35:55 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:35:55 -0000 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] re: any ideas In-Reply-To: <4055E419.7020808@verizon.net> Message-ID: <001901c40acd$1d649140$bf00a8c0@dabsight> Yes, the SQLServerAgent service *depends* on the MSSQLServer service. If you stop the latter, then the dependent services also stop - but not vice versa. Backing up files, rather than doing it properly? Not smart. But if they're convinced they know better, you could say "Of course you do *test* your backups by restoring them - don't you?". John > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf > Of Francisco H Tapia > Sent: 15 March 2004 17:13 > To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] re: any ideas > > > In your first post you mentioned that they turn off the > sqlAgent$filenme > and sqlserveragent are both shown as manual, > but check the service marked MSSQLSERVER, have them check that it is > stopped allong with the agents and then attempt the cold back > up at that > point. And if it's not to forward, find out why they choose COLD > backups over warm backups.. and IIRC, you can't just slap in > the mdf/ldf > files if a catastrophy where to occur and expect the server > to run fine. > > In a good backup procedure you always have at some point a > test to see > if your backup plan works. At my site, I run backups regularly but I > also do TEST the backups on our local test boxes and also at home. > > just my 2cents... > > Martin Reid wrote: > > >I agree but its not one of mine. Tehy back up a couple of > PCs in this > >manner then take that backup to removable HDD. > > > >Do you think the SQLService is therefore running when they do this? > > > >Martin > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Francisco H Tapia" > >To: > >Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 4:17 PM > >Subject: [dba-SQLServer] re: any ideas > > > > > > > > > >>IMHO, sql server backups are best, but to each their own... in any > >>case you are mentioning only the agent name but not the SQLSERVER > >>service. > >> > >> > >>-- > >>-Francisco > >> > >>Martin Reid wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>Any ideas, a question from a friend of mine re using a third party > >>>backup utility on the PC. > >>> > >>>Here's the question: When I am NOT working on SQL, and the SQL > >>>Service Manager says that the Service is not started, Second Copy > >>>still reports "File in Use" for all of the files in the > SQL Server. > >>>That means that > >>> > >>> > >they > > > > > >>>are not being backed up. Looking at the Services in Windows, I see > >>>that SQLAgent$FILENAME and SQLSERVERAGENT are both shown > as Startup > >>>Type: > >>> > >>> > >Manual > > > > > >>>and Status: Not Started (blank). So if SQL is not started, what is > >>>tying > >>> > >>> > >up > > > > > >>>the files? I would like to keep them backed up. > >>> > >>>Martin > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>dba-SQLServer mailing list > >>dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > >>http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >dba-SQLServer mailing list > >dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -Francisco > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-SQLServer mailing list > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From tuxedo_man at hotmail.com Mon Mar 15 15:11:37 2004 From: tuxedo_man at hotmail.com (Billy Pang) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:11:37 +0000 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] msde backend database for Web-based business application Message-ID: I am doing a little bit of research and I am wondering if anybody is using msde as the backend database for web-based business applications. Is it valid under the msde licensing agreement and are there any performance issues you have with it? thanks in advance Billy _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca From tuxedo_man at hotmail.com Tue Mar 16 20:19:30 2004 From: tuxedo_man at hotmail.com (Billy Pang) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 02:19:30 +0000 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] how to monitor memory usage page/sec on box Message-ID: I need to monitor memory usage (page/sec) on a sql server box 24hrs a day, 7 days a week. Right now I am using system monitor but the monitor stops counting when the server restarts. Any ideas on how to make the counter continue after a restart without manual intervention? thanks in advance Billy _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com Mon Mar 22 08:52:57 2004 From: Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com (Djabarov, Robert) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:52:57 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Sending emails from SQL-Server Message-ID: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C820@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> Check into CDO. Robert Djabarov SQL Server & UDB Sr. SQL Server Administrator Phone: (210) 913-3148 Pager: (210) 753-3148 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 www.usaa.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Brosdorf Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:28 AM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Sending emails from SQL-Server Hi everyone, what is the best way to send emails directly from an SQL-Server machine? Does Outlook need to be installed on it? Michael _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com Mon Mar 22 08:59:07 2004 From: Robert.Djabarov at usaa.com (Djabarov, Robert) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:59:07 -0600 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] re: any ideas Message-ID: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C821@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> I think Martin is referring to SQL Server program files, not data/log/backup devices. Robert Djabarov SQL Server & UDB Sr. SQL Server Administrator Phone: (210) 913-3148 Pager: (210) 753-3148 9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 www.usaa.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:13 AM To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] re: any ideas In your first post you mentioned that they turn off the sqlAgent$filenme and sqlserveragent are both shown as manual, but check the service marked MSSQLSERVER, have them check that it is stopped allong with the agents and then attempt the cold back up at that point. And if it's not to forward, find out why they choose COLD backups over warm backups.. and IIRC, you can't just slap in the mdf/ldf files if a catastrophy where to occur and expect the server to run fine. In a good backup procedure you always have at some point a test to see if your backup plan works. At my site, I run backups regularly but I also do TEST the backups on our local test boxes and also at home. just my 2cents... Martin Reid wrote: >I agree but its not one of mine. Tehy back up a couple of PCs in this manner >then take that backup to removable HDD. > >Do you think the SQLService is therefore running when they do this? > >Martin > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Francisco H Tapia" >To: >Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 4:17 PM >Subject: [dba-SQLServer] re: any ideas > > > > >>IMHO, sql server backups are best, but to each their own... in any case >>you are mentioning only the agent name but not the SQLSERVER service. >> >> >>-- >>-Francisco >> >>Martin Reid wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>Any ideas, a question from a friend of mine re using a third party backup >>>utility on the PC. >>> >>>Here's the question: When I am NOT working on SQL, and the SQL Service >>>Manager says that the Service is not started, Second Copy still reports >>>"File in Use" for all of the files in the SQL Server. That means that >>> >>> >they > > >>>are not being backed up. Looking at the Services in Windows, I see that >>>SQLAgent$FILENAME and SQLSERVERAGENT are both shown as Startup Type: >>> >>> >Manual > > >>>and Status: Not Started (blank). So if SQL is not started, what is tying >>> >>> >up > > >>>the files? I would like to keep them backed up. >>> >>>Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-SQLServer mailing list >>dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver >>http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >dba-SQLServer mailing list >dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- -Francisco _______________________________________________ dba-SQLServer mailing list dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Mon Mar 22 09:15:28 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:15:28 -0800 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] re: any ideas In-Reply-To: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C821@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> References: <3CCEA32DFF043C4CB99B835557E11B3003C6C821@ex02.eagle.usaa.com> Message-ID: <405F0310.7060308@verizon.net> In Martins first email he wrote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Here's the question: When I am NOT working on SQL, and the SQL Service Manager says that the Service is not started, Second Copy still reports "File in Use" for all of the files in the SQL Server. That means that they are not being backed up. Looking at the Services in Windows, I see that SQLAgent$FILENAME and SQLSERVERAGENT are both shown as Startup Type: Manual and Status: Not Started (blank). So if SQL is not started, what is tying up the files? I would like to keep them backed up. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ He says that when he is looking in at the Services in windows... I was suspect to think it was still the MSSqlServer service running in the background. Djabarov, Robert wrote: >I think Martin is referring to SQL Server program files, not >data/log/backup devices. > > > >Robert Djabarov >SQL Server & UDB >Sr. SQL Server Administrator >Phone: (210) 913-3148 >Pager: (210) 753-3148 >9800 Fredericksburg Rd. San Antonio, TX 78288 >www.usaa.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >Francisco H Tapia >Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:13 AM >To: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] re: any ideas > >In your first post you mentioned that they turn off the sqlAgent$filenme > >and sqlserveragent are both shown as manual, >but check the service marked MSSQLSERVER, have them check that it is >stopped allong with the agents and then attempt the cold back up at that > >point. And if it's not to forward, find out why they choose COLD >backups over warm backups.. and IIRC, you can't just slap in the mdf/ldf > >files if a catastrophy where to occur and expect the server to run fine. > >In a good backup procedure you always have at some point a test to see >if your backup plan works. At my site, I run backups regularly but I >also do TEST the backups on our local test boxes and also at home. > >just my 2cents... > >Martin Reid wrote: > > > >>I agree but its not one of mine. Tehy back up a couple of PCs in this >> >> >manner > > >>then take that backup to removable HDD. >> >>Do you think the SQLService is therefore running when they do this? >> >>Martin >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Francisco H Tapia" >>To: >>Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 4:17 PM >>Subject: [dba-SQLServer] re: any ideas >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>IMHO, sql server backups are best, but to each their own... in any >>> >>> >case > > >>>you are mentioning only the agent name but not the SQLSERVER service. >>> >>> >>>-- >>>-Francisco >>> >>>Martin Reid wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Any ideas, a question from a friend of mine re using a third party >>>> >>>> >backup > > >>>>utility on the PC. >>>> >>>>Here's the question: When I am NOT working on SQL, and the SQL >>>> >>>> >Service > > >>>>Manager says that the Service is not started, Second Copy still >>>> >>>> >reports > > >>>>"File in Use" for all of the files in the SQL Server. That means that >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>they >> >> >> >> >>>>are not being backed up. Looking at the Services in Windows, I see >>>> >>>> >that > > >>>>SQLAgent$FILENAME and SQLSERVERAGENT are both shown as Startup Type: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>Manual >> >> >> >> >>>>and Status: Not Started (blank). So if SQL is not started, what is >>>> >>>> >tying > > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>up >> >> >> >> >>>>the files? I would like to keep them backed up. >>>> >>>>Martin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- -Francisco From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Mon Mar 29 16:39:09 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:39:09 -0500 Subject: [dba-SQLServer] Test Message-ID: <40685F3D.1084.172C97D@localhost> It's quite around here, so I am testing something. Won't know if it works until tomorrow however. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Following the rules will not get the job done. From sqlserver667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 23:50:05 2004 From: sqlserver667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:50:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [dba-SQLServer] ping ping ping....? Message-ID: <20040401055005.36140.qmail@web61203.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, is there any activity here? I'm not receiving anything.... Regards, Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam