[dba-SQLServer] OK, I give up - was "John needs NoSQL"

Michael Mattys michael at mattysconsulting.com
Sun Oct 16 18:04:34 CDT 2011


Thanks, Jim
We are currently working on MS Dynamics CRM which will benefit greatly from
these new concepts in SQL 2012.

Michael R Mattys
Mattys Consulting, LLC
www.mattysconsulting.com


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Lawrence
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 6:37 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'
Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] OK, I give up - was "John needs NoSQL"

Absolutely excellent articles Michael...great research and a great read.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Mattys
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 2:41 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'
Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] OK, I give up - was "John needs NoSQL"

To explore this further see the following:

http://www.xzilla.net/blog/2010/Mar/Actually,-the-Relational-Model-doesnt-sc
ale.html

and the article's link, too

http://www.julianbrowne.com/article/viewer/brewers-cap-theorem

Michael R Mattys
Mattys Consulting, LLC
www.mattysconsulting.com


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Mattys
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 3:36 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'
Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] OK, I give up - was "John needs NoSQL"

I see NOSQL databases as a way to model the world, much like virtual worlds.

These aren't just business relationships anymore, but decision models
expanded into cause-and-effect projections upon all phases of existence put
into the hands of people with radically different views of each virtual
world. 

They'll definitely enhance the ability to gauge strengths, weaknesses,
opportunities, and threats.

Michael R Mattys
Mattys Consulting, LLC
www.mattysconsulting.com


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-sqlserver-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 3:26 PM
To: Discussion concerning MS SQL Server
Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] OK, I give up - was "John needs NoSQL"

Martin,

LOL.  I read it.  Every time I read any of this stuff it says the same
thing.  SQL databases do one thing, NOSQL databases do something entirely
different.

I had to laugh.  All the analysts in that article are saying that SQL is
dead, then they immediately say that the data in SQL databases and the job
SQL databases do are entirely different from NOSQL. 
They keep talking about email and pictures and documents and internet pages
and...

Documents!  And searching through... Emails!  And getting information out
of... Documents!

And then the next one says that SQL could just quietly go away and never be
missed...

And then they talk about scaling up to tens of thousands of servers...

I have a good solution in my office.  Where exactly do I put those tens of
thousands of servers? 
DIS, my client in Connecticut runs a call center.  They are in the process
of building a server expressly for handling relational data.  They have 50
employees and a small office.  Where are they going to put these tens of
thousands of server blades?  And what are they going to do with them if they
had them?

There are about a billion companies out there, and by every estimate I have
ever seen 95% of all companies are under 50 people.  And they need business
databases.  Relational databases.  Which does not mean that they have no use
for NOSLQ, simply that the need for SQL doesn't look to me like it is going
away next week.

We have been talking for a long time about getting rid of paper entirely.
Maybe this is it, maybe NoSQL is the start of the paperless office.
Everything stored electronically.  That would be a good thing.  Even so I
still have books to keep.  GM still has a supply chain to track.  DIS still
has a call center to run.  These do not appear (to me) to map nicely into
NOSQL.

Notice that in this entire thread on this list, *nobody* has spoken up and
discussed how they are, as we speak, writing a call center app in NOSQL, or
a book keeping app, or a manufacturing app, or anything at all in fact.  So
far nobody has spoken up at all except for Jim, who said he was
(peripherally from the sounds of it) involved in installing a NOSQL app to
track documents for a government entity.  And Hans who says he can tell us
all about what NOSQL does but so far hasn't done so.

Now I understand that this is an SQL list, but you would think that if NOSQL
was storming the gates of SQL land someone on this list would be chattering
about all the cool things they are doing with it.

I can tell you that I have engineered a SQL system that handles what I do
with aplomb.  Yes, it took a lot of hardware (lol, a single server / OS) and
it took a lot of software but it sure looks like it took a miniscule amount
compared to what NOSQL seems to expect me to need.

I will continue to watch NOSQL unfold and I expect that I will find uses for
it as it gets to the point where any tom, dick and developer can install /
use it.  In the meantime I bill thousands a month in SQL and... hm... zero
in NoSQL.

I'm thinking I will keep my day job.  ;)

John W. Colby
Colby Consulting

Reality is what refuses to go away
when you do not believe in it

On 10/16/2011 2:41 PM, Martin Reid wrote:
> Had to read up on this as never heard of it.
> http://m.cio.com/article/690262/NoSQL_is_Eclipsing_the_Old_Time_RDBMS
>
> I am running a four instance cluster with just over 2 million documents.
SQL ser 2008 r2.  We use 30000 users and SQL server seems fine.
>
> Martin
>
> Sent from my Windows Phone
> ________________________________
> From: jwcolby
> Sent: 16/10/2011 13:30
> To: Discussion concerning MS SQL Server
> Subject: Re: [dba-SQLServer] OK, I give up - was "John needs NoSQL"
>
> I can Google, and I do.  What I see is that they are not intended to 
> solve the same problem set as SQL.  I have spent several hours now 
> reading
articles on what they do.
>
> Are you saying that you actually use NOSQL?  If so why don't you 
> discuss what kinds of problems you are solving with NOSQL.
>
> John W. Colby
> Colby Consulting
>
> Reality is what refuses to go away
> when you do not believe in it
>
> On 10/16/2011 2:08 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote:
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> If you have any questions as to what NoSQL databases are, their 
>> history
and/or what problems they are trying to solve, please do ask. I will be
happy to explain.
>>
>> - Hans
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