From shamil at SMSConsulting.spb.ru  Sat Nov  1 16:43:20 2003
From: shamil at SMSConsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 01:43:20 +0300
Subject: [dba-Tech] 
	How to open MS Access Macro in design view from VBA code?
Message-ID: <006d01c3a0c9$8f119270$b501010a@PARIS>

Hi All,

Anybody knows the answer on the subject's question? (for Access97 and higher
versions)

TIA,
Shamil

--
e-mail: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru
Web:   http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s


From my.lists at verizon.net  Mon Nov  3 12:19:46 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:19:46 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] OT: Noisy computer
In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222748D@main2.marlow.com>
References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222748D@main2.marlow.com>
Message-ID: <3FA69C42.2090405@verizon.net>

double BZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzT,  I'm always looking around for 
quite solutions, did you catch that link for AMDMB for that super quiet 
DP101 from AEROCool?



Drew Wutka wrote:

>To tie this into an Access related (actually AccessD related) post, in my
>old place (one before the fire), I had my servers near the foot of my
>bed...and those things were NOISY.  Of course, one of the fans was going
>out, so that didn't help! <grin> But now that they're in the closet, I can
>soundly sleep at night, and still host the archives! <grin> (Come on, give
>me points for trying to tie that in!)
>
>Drew
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net]
>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:00 AM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Noisy computer
>
>
>dittos here: aka "My Bullpen"
>
>JB
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
>>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 10:19 AM
>>To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Noisy computer
>>
>>
>>I just put my servers in the closet.  Don't care how noisy they 
>>get.  Can't
>>hear them! <grin>
>>
>>Drew
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>  
>


-- 
-Francisco



From my.lists at verizon.net  Mon Nov  3 12:47:55 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:47:55 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re:  Wireless network (sort of)
In-Reply-To: <016801c3a236$e8f85b70$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227480@main2.marlow.com>
	<016801c3a236$e8f85b70$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <3FA6A2DB.70507@verizon.net>

Rocky, first and foremost I'm replying to the dba-tech list.  This is 
because this thread really belongs there.  No it does not mean that it 
thinks you have 256 machines, but rather that you may connect UP TO 254 
devices.



Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:

>So I just did and IPCONFIG through the dos command and find my IP is
>192.168.1.101 and the subnet is 255.255.255.0.
>
>So does my router think I might have as many as 256 machines (or addressable
>devices, I guess) connected to IP 192.168.1.101?
>
>Rocky
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Drew Wutka" <DWUTKA at marlow.com>
>To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'"
><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:08 AM
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>
>
>  
>
>>Think of a subnet as a neighborhood.  A network neighborhood.  The subnet
>>'mask' is a property in TCP/IP, which tells your machine what IP addresses
>>are around it.  It's a bitmask thing.
>>
>>192.168.0.1, with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 tells the machine that
>>192.168.0.1 through 192.168.0.255 are around it.  If the bit is turned on
>>    
>>
>in
>  
>
>>the subnet mask, IP Addresses in that subnet must have a matching bit
>>(either on or off....), if it's turned off in the subnet, that bit in the
>>    
>>
>IP
>  
>
>>address can be different.  So 255.255.255.254 for a subnet, is a subnet of
>>    
>>
>2
>  
>
>>machines.
>>
>>The reason this is important, is because subnets control how much
>>broadcasting and browsing your machine must do, to locate other computers
>>    
>>
>on
>  
>
>>the network.  A subnet of 255.255.0.0 tells your computer there are 65k
>>machines on the subnet, and more then likely you will never find anything,
>>because it will eventually give up.  255.255.255.0 tells it there are 256
>>(255) computers on the subnet, which it should be able to find just fine.
>>However, if you have a smaller network, a smaller subnet speeds up the
>>'searching'.
>>
>>That leads to what I was talking about earlier...the Gateway (router).
>>    
>>
>When
>  
>
>>you tell a machine to go to 123.456.789.321, if that IP Address is not on
>>the subnet, it doesn't even bother looking, it just sends the request to
>>    
>>
>the
>  
>
>>gateway IP (router), so the router does the searching.
>>
>>Drew
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com]
>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 6:53 PM
>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>>
>>
>>O. What's a subnet?  And where do I get one?  And do I want one?
>>
>>Rocky
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Drew Wutka" <DWUTKA at marlow.com>
>>To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'"
>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 9:20 AM
>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Yes, a switch is used to connect computers on the same subnet.  A router
>>>      
>>>
>>is
>>    
>>
>>>used to connect subnets together.  A router is usually also a switch, so
>>>      
>>>
>>it
>>    
>>
>>>can connect computers on the same subnet, AND connect one subnet to
>>>      
>>>
>>another.
>>    
>>
>>>Drew
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com]
>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 9:20 AM
>>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>>>
>>>
>>>Is there a difference between a switch and a router?
>>>
>>>Rocky
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>From: "Frank Tanner III" <pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving"
>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 6:54 AM
>>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>I recommend "hardwiring" the IP address of any device
>>>>or server connected to your LAN that's not a
>>>>workstation and is virtually always on.
>>>>
>>>>For the price, I would also highly recommend removing
>>>>all hubs from your network and using them as
>>>>doorstops.  Switches have come way down in price and
>>>>have many benifits over hubs.
>>>>
>>>>Hubs divide the bandwidth across all ports.  Thus if
>>>>you have an 8-port 10-BaseT hub, all ports that are
>>>>processing data split that 10Mbit.  A switch, each
>>>>port gets the fill bandwidth.
>>>>
>>>>That's not including the security issues inherent with
>>>>hubs as they broadcast all available data to all
>>>>available ports rather than to the proper destination
>>>>port.
>>>>
>>>>--- John Colby <jcolby at colbyconsulting.com> wrote:
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Yes, you can indeed daisy chain routers and
>>>>>SUPPOSEDLY hubs, though I had no
>>>>>joy doing that with my old hub.  I am however daisy
>>>>>chaining my old 4 port
>>>>>router off of my new 4 port wireless router.  The
>>>>>newer models even figure
>>>>>out what kind of cable you are using, crossover or
>>>>>regular.  The biggest
>>>>>issue there was that the router was the dhcp server
>>>>>so I had to turn off the
>>>>>old as a dhcp server and turn on the new.  I also
>>>>>hardwired the address of
>>>>>the old router to 192.168.1.2.  Daisy Chaining two 4
>>>>>port routers isn't a
>>>>>panacea however since you now end up using two ports
>>>>>just for the daisy
>>>>>chain and have 6 left.  In my case though I also
>>>>>have a wireless so I can
>>>>>get my laptop in through that and could also get
>>>>>other computers in if
>>>>>needed.
>>>>>
>>>>>I have an old model I TIVO which I modded to use the
>>>>>internet to "call in"
>>>>>for programming.  I had to snake a cable down the
>>>>>wall from the living room
>>>>>(luckily exactly over my office in the basement).  I
>>>>>understand that the
>>>>>model II has USB ports that can automatically use
>>>>>the USB wireless cards to
>>>>>connect to the internet.
>>>>>
>>>>>John W. Colby
>>>>>www.colbyconsulting.com
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On
>>>>>Behalf Of Rocky Smolin -
>>>>>Beach Access Software
>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 8:33 AM
>>>>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>>>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>>>>of)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>John:
>>>>>
>>>>>I heard that you can daisy chain hubs off one of the
>>>>>ports on your router to
>>>>>get more ports and that you can go up to 255 devices
>>>>>from one router this
>>>>>way.  Seems to easy and cheap, though.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've also found that when creating a new network it
>>>>>sometimes takes a few
>>>>>minutes for the different shared devices to 'see'
>>>>>each other - especially on
>>>>>the wireless.  So I'll whang around frustrated
>>>>>trying to get the network to
>>>>>work and then have the same experience you had -
>>>>>after a few minutes,
>>>>>suddenly the other machines are in my network
>>>>>neighborhood.  Go figure.
>>>>>
>>>>>Rocky
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "John Colby" <jcolby at colbyconsulting.com>
>>>>>To: "Database Advisors Inc. (Tech)"
>>>>><Dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com>;
>>>>>"AccessD" <AccessD at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 5:39 PM
>>>>>Subject: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>I ordered a Netgear MR814v2 Wireless router a
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>couple of weeks ago.  I
>>>>>needed
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>to expand my 4 port router (I had 5 things I kept
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>needing to plug in) and
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>the Netgear was on sale at www.Newegg.com at the
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>time.  I then tried and
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>failed to install a linksys WPC11v2.5 I had laying
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>around, so I ordered a
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>dlink dwl-650 that was on sale (rebate) at
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>www.newegg.com.  Long story
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>short, it didn't work.  Long story a little
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>longer, a very long call to
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>dlink tech support, did not solve the problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Or maaaaaybe it did.  After failing to figure
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>anything out, they
>>>>>recommended
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>that I upgrade my laptop bios.  It's an ancient
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>(now) 233mhz PII Toshiba
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Satellite 4000 that I bought with my first
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>paycheck from my trip to work
>>>>>for
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Mr. Breen in Dublin Ireland back in hmmm.....
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>November 1997?  Getting a
>>>>>bit
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>long in the tooth, truth be told.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The bios upgrade and also the old "turn off NAV
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>before installing etc.
>>>>>And
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>"oh by the way, our card requires at least a 300
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>mhz processor.  So I
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>uninstalled, upgraded to the latest bios (May
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>2000?), turned off NAV,
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>reinstalled the drivers and re-installed the card.
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>> Still no joy.  The
>>>>>site
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>survey showed no transmitters, and dlink tech
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>support assured me that if
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>there was a transmitter I would see it regardless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ignorant liars!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Went back in and reconfigured the card in the
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>laptop for channel 11 (it
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>defaulted to 3 and the router was on 11), played
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>around with a couple of
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>other things and boom, I see a transmitter.  Went
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>in to the router config
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>page and changed the SSID and sure enough the
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>thing I'm seeing on the
>>>>>laptop
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>changes to match!  Still no connection though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Rebooted, played around some more and suddenly (no
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>clear idea why) I have
>>>>>a
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>wireless connection, can browse my network and see
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>the web.  Yeaaaaa.
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Moral of the story, tech support generally sucks,
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>play around, don't quit,
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>and eventually the gods will reward you.  Or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now, I need to know what to do to tighten this
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>thing up so that others
>>>>>can't
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>see my network.  I'm a bit afraid to touch
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>anything since I don't really
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>know what I did to finally get it running.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Can anyone walk me through tightening this up?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>John W. Colby
>>>>>>www.colbyconsulting.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>  
>


-- 
-Francisco



From my.lists at verizon.net  Mon Nov  3 13:11:19 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:11:19 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)
In-Reply-To: <NEBBKADGELICHEJJCKGKKEFEHMAA.jimdettman@earthlink.net>
References: <NEBBKADGELICHEJJCKGKKEFEHMAA.jimdettman@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3FA6A857.5080607@verizon.net>

Jim,
 I'm replying to the dba-tech list as that is the proper list for this 
topic :).  On that note, some of your more recent Switches also come w/ 
somthing called spanning trees.

Jim Dettman wrote:

>Drew/Erwin,
>
>  One minor correction.  Switches don't use NAT tables.  They use MAC
>Address lists and ARP tables.  NAT is something done only in a router.
>
>Jim Dettman
>President,
>Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc.
>(315) 699-3443
>jimdettman at earthlink.net
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:59 AM
>To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>
>
>Read Erwins post a little while ago, was waiting for your's before I
>replied! <grin>
>
>Erwin, switches also use NAT tables.  Because of this, they don't have to
>broadcast everything in all directions.  They're 'smart', when a packet
>comes in, they can properly direct it.  The downside to the NAT tables is
>that if you blow the NAT table away, it has to be rebuilt, so sometimes on
>an initial powerup, a switch may seem slower, which is simply the time it is
>using to build the NAT tables.
>
>Drew
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Frank Tanner III [mailto:pctech at mybellybutton.com]
>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:35 AM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>
>
>And they improve speed.
>
>Because they do not SHARE the bandwidth amongst the
>ports.  A 10-BaseT hub SHARES that speed amongst the
>available ports.  This dividing the individual
>bandwidth per port.
>
>A switch allocates all available bandwidth on a PER
>PORT basis.
>
>Maybe you need to learn what you are talking about
>before you give out false information.
>
>--- Erwin Craps <Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be> wrote:
>  
>
>>And to be correct, switches don't improve speed
>>(compared to hub's) they
>>improve bandwith and reduce collisions!!!
>>Switches create virtual point to point connections.
>>
>>Switches do improve speed compared to routers.
>>
>>Erwin
>>
>>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens
>>Frank Tanner III
>>Verzonden: zaterdag 1 november 2003 16:23
>>Aan: Access Developers discussion and problem
>>solving
>>Onderwerp: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>of)
>>
>>
>>Switches will ALWAYS improve your speed over hubs.
>>Period.
>>
>>Hubs SHARE the same bandwidth on all ports.
>>Switches
>>allocate the max bandwidth per port.
>>
>>You are incorrect.
>>
>>--- Erwin Craps <Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be> wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>But switches have no sense in a 1 server
>>>      
>>>
>>environment
>>    
>>
>>>because all of the
>>>trafic goes and comes from one point.
>>>Unless your clients are 100Mb and the uplink to
>>>      
>>>
>>the
>>    
>>
>>>server is 1Gb.
>>>
>>>People often believe switches will improve their
>>>network speed, but that
>>>is not always the case.
>>>But indeed the prices of the switches have dropped
>>>that you buy a switch
>>>at the price of a good hub these days.
>>>
>>>Erwin
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On
>>>Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
>>>- Beach Access Software
>>>Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 1:55 AM
>>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>      
>>>
>>solving
>>    
>>
>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>>of)
>>>
>>>
>>>Got it. I think.  Switch can route packet based on
>>>IP address but can't
>>>generate an IP address.  Yes?
>>>
>>>Rocky
>>>
>>>
>>>Rocky
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>      
>>>
>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>    
>>
>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>solving"
>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 10:29 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>>of)
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>It is sort of half-way, but not really.
>>>>
>>>>Switches are a "generation" better.  Hubs and
>>>>switches, on their most basic level perform the
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>same function.  They
>>>      
>>>
>>>>distribute network traffic.  But HOW they
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>distribute that traffic is
>>>      
>>>
>>>>fundimentally different.
>>>>
>>>>Unless they're one of the newer layer 3 or layer
>>>>        
>>>>
>>4 switches, they
>>    
>>
>>>>cannot perform routing functions.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>They
>>>      
>>>
>>>>just hand packets off from point A to point B.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Think
>>>      
>>>
>>>>of them as sort of a postman.  They have an
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>address
>>>      
>>>
>>>>for each device on the network and they hand off
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>each
>>>      
>>>
>>>>piece of mail to the appropriate address.  A
>>>>        
>>>>
>>hub,
>>    
>>
>>>>using this sama analagy would deliver the same
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>piece
>>>      
>>>
>>>>of mail to every house and the one that it
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>belonged to
>>>      
>>>
>>>>would be the one that actually reads it.
>>>>
>>>>--- Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
>>>>        
>>>>
>><bchacc at san.rr.com> wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>>>"but it's as close as I could think of without
>>>>>getting too technical."
>>>>>
>>>>>Thank you.  Much appreciated.  So a switch is
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>like
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>halfway between a hub and
>>>>>a router?
>>>>>
>>>>>Rocky
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>>>solving"
>>>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 7:36 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>(sort
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>of)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>A router and a switch are fundimentall
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>different
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A router does just that.  It routes network
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>traffic.
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>A switch plays "traffic cop" for a network.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Newer switches, especially the layer 3 and
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>layer 4
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>ones can perform both functions.This isn't
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>an
>>    
>>
>>>>>exact
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>definition, but it's as close as I could
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>think
>>    
>>
>>>of
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>without getting too technical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--- Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>><bchacc at san.rr.com>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is there a difference between a switch and
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>a
>>    
>>
>>>>>router?
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Rocky
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>problem
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>>solving"
>>>>>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 6:54 AM
>>>>>>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>network
>>    
>>
>>>>>(sort
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>of)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I recommend "hardwiring" the IP address
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>of
>>    
>>
>>>any
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>>device
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>or server connected to your LAN that's
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>not
>>    
>>
>>>a workstation and
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>>>is virtually always on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>For the price, I would also highly
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>recommend
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>>removing
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>all hubs from your network and using
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>them
>>    
>>
>>>as doorstops.
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>>>Switches have come way down in
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>price
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>have many benifits over hubs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hubs divide the bandwidth across all
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>ports.
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>Thus
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>if
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>you have an 8-port 10-BaseT hub, all
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>ports
>>    
>>
>>>>>that
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>processing data split that 10Mbit.  A
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>=== message truncated ===
>
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>  
>


-- 
-Francisco



From andy at minstersystems.co.uk  Mon Nov  3 13:11:17 2003
From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:11:17 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
In-Reply-To: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD788A@xlivmbx12.aig.com>
Message-ID: <007101c3a23e$42215a60$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>

This is first trial of new policy. I'm cross-posting to AccesD and the
Tech list but please reply ONLY to the the tech list as this is no way
Access-related - I just need guidance.

Are there any Powerpoint experts out there? If so can someone tell me
what, if any, are the main pros and cons of the Office 97, 2000 and XP
versions of Powerpoint? And which is the best, and why? I've read the MS
docs on this but am interested in "real" experience.

Thanks in advance for any help. And if you're not yet on the tech list
you can subscribe via
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech

Andy Lacey
http://www.minstersystems.co.uk 




From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk  Mon Nov  3 13:21:31 2003
From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:21:31 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
References: <007101c3a23e$42215a60$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>
Message-ID: <006901c3a23f$b0b77bc0$a6f66e51@martin1>

Andy

Depend what you want to do. I found for your bog standard presentation
theres little difference. We recently moved to XP so not much to say yet but
I have taken intro courses and further powerpoint courses in the University
and the only thing I have changed in the manuals is the screen dumps.

Depends what you need to so with it???

Martin



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andy Lacey" <andy at minstersystems.co.uk>
To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'"
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>; <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:11 AM
Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question


> This is first trial of new policy. I'm cross-posting to AccesD and the
> Tech list but please reply ONLY to the the tech list as this is no way
> Access-related - I just need guidance.
>
> Are there any Powerpoint experts out there? If so can someone tell me
> what, if any, are the main pros and cons of the Office 97, 2000 and XP
> versions of Powerpoint? And which is the best, and why? I've read the MS
> docs on this but am interested in "real" experience.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help. And if you're not yet on the tech list
> you can subscribe via
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>
> Andy Lacey
> http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From wdhindman at bellsouth.net  Mon Nov  3 13:22:59 2003
From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:22:59 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
Message-ID: <003e01c3a23f$e4c040f0$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>

...ok ...I've added this, yet another list to my inundated mailboxes because the moderators finally showed some spunk over on AccessD ...I hope its worth the pain :)

William Hindman
<http://www.freestateproject.org> - Next Year In The Free State!


From DBCfour at aol.com  Mon Nov  3 13:32:15 2003
From: DBCfour at aol.com (DBCfour at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:32:15 EST
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
Message-ID: <106.286cef9a.2cd8073f@aol.com>


Ohhhh...you'll fit right in William.

Donna

In a message dated 11/3/2003 2:23:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
wdhindman at bellsouth.net writes:


> ...ok ...I've added this, yet another list to my inundated mailboxes 
> because the moderators finally showed some spunk over on AccessD ...I hope its 
> worth the pain :)
> 
> William Hindman


From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us  Mon Nov  3 13:45:34 2003
From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:45:34 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Wireless Network/Outlook Express/Roadrunner
Message-ID: <FED384E544086A47AAC07C0999BE8D1701E0503B@albmsx2k.rt.oasas.state.ny.us>

Hi Techers,
Is there a way I can configure OE on my wireless laptop to access my
RoadRunner e-mail without having to use that Web Mail thingy?
Ed
Edward P. Tesiny
New York State OASAS
Evaluation and Program Monitoring
1450 Western Ave.
Albany, New York  12203-3526
Phone:  (518) 485-7189
Fax:  (518) 485-5769
EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us
 

From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Nov  3 13:47:32 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John Colby)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:47:32 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
In-Reply-To: <003e01c3a23f$e4c040f0$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPGEAFFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

There goes the neighborhood!

<VBG>

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William
Hindman
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 2:23 PM
To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


...ok ...I've added this, yet another list to my inundated mailboxes because
the moderators finally showed some spunk over on AccessD ...I hope its worth
the pain :)

William Hindman
<http://www.freestateproject.org> - Next Year In The Free State!

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From DBCfour at aol.com  Mon Nov  3 13:52:09 2003
From: DBCfour at aol.com (DBCfour at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:52:09 EST
Subject: [dba-Tech] Wireless Network/Outlook Express/Roadrunner
Message-ID: <46.40ad5f22.2cd80be9@aol.com>


Set up Outlook, or whatever you normally use, and choose leave mail on 
server.  That way you can check it from multiple machines.

Donna

In a message dated 11/3/2003 2:45:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us writes:


> Hi Techers,
> Is there a way I can configure OE on my wireless laptop to access my
> RoadRunner e-mail without having to use that Web Mail thingy?
> Ed


From martyconnelly at shaw.ca  Mon Nov  3 13:56:06 2003
From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:56:06 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
References: <007101c3a23e$42215a60$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>
 <006901c3a23f$b0b77bc0$a6f66e51@martin1>
Message-ID: <3FA6B2D6.9090907@shaw.ca>

Might get some hints on differences here; in use of VBA with Powerpoint.
http://www.mvps.org/skp/


Martin Reid wrote:

>Andy
>
>Depend what you want to do. I found for your bog standard presentation
>theres little difference. We recently moved to XP so not much to say yet but
>I have taken intro courses and further powerpoint courses in the University
>and the only thing I have changed in the manuals is the screen dumps.
>
>Depends what you need to so with it???
>
>Martin
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Andy Lacey" <andy at minstersystems.co.uk>
>To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'"
><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>; <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:11 AM
>Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
>
>
>  
>
>>This is first trial of new policy. I'm cross-posting to AccesD and the
>>Tech list but please reply ONLY to the the tech list as this is no way
>>Access-related - I just need guidance.
>>
>>Are there any Powerpoint experts out there? If so can someone tell me
>>what, if any, are the main pros and cons of the Office 97, 2000 and XP
>>versions of Powerpoint? And which is the best, and why? I've read the MS
>>docs on this but am interested in "real" experience.
>>
>>Thanks in advance for any help. And if you're not yet on the tech list
>>you can subscribe via
>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>
>>Andy Lacey
>>http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>dba-Tech mailing list
>>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>  
>

-- 
Marty Connelly
Victoria, B.C.
Canada




From john at winhaven.net  Mon Nov  3 14:21:07 2003
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:21:07 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
In-Reply-To: <003e01c3a23f$e4c040f0$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>
Message-ID: <LPBBLAKMHEDAKJKENHKIIELKEMAA.john@winhaven.net>

'bout time you showed up for a round or two!

BTW: I think its your turn to buy.

:o)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William
> Hindman
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 1:23 PM
> To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
> 
> 
> ...ok ...I've added this, yet another list to my inundated 
> mailboxes because the moderators finally showed some spunk over 
> on AccessD ...I hope its worth the pain :)
> 
> William Hindman
> <http://www.freestateproject.org> - Next Year In The Free State!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From andy at minstersystems.co.uk  Mon Nov  3 14:31:48 2003
From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:31:48 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
In-Reply-To: <006901c3a23f$b0b77bc0$a6f66e51@martin1>
Message-ID: <008501c3a249$81cbb830$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>

The situation is that no-one at the customer has used it at all, and I'm
a novice myself. So now they feel the need, which is going to involve
purchasing copies (only have Office 97 so it's going to cost to get
later versions), training courses, books etc, and the question I'm asked
is "Which version shall we invest in?"

Andy Lacey
http://www.minstersystems.co.uk 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of 
> Martin Reid
> Sent: 03 November 2003 19:22
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
> 
> 
> Andy
> 
> Depend what you want to do. I found for your bog standard 
> presentation theres little difference. We recently moved to 
> XP so not much to say yet but I have taken intro courses and 
> further powerpoint courses in the University and the only 
> thing I have changed in the manuals is the screen dumps.
> 
> Depends what you need to so with it???
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Andy Lacey" <andy at minstersystems.co.uk>
> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" 
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>; <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:11 AM
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
> 
> 
> > This is first trial of new policy. I'm cross-posting to 
> AccesD and the 
> > Tech list but please reply ONLY to the the tech list as 
> this is no way 
> > Access-related - I just need guidance.
> >
> > Are there any Powerpoint experts out there? If so can 
> someone tell me 
> > what, if any, are the main pros and cons of the Office 97, 
> 2000 and XP 
> > versions of Powerpoint? And which is the best, and why? 
> I've read the 
> > MS docs on this but am interested in "real" experience.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help. And if you're not yet on 
> the tech list 
> > you can subscribe via 
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> >
> > Andy Lacey
> > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/d> ba-tech
> 
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 



From dbatech at wolfwares.com  Mon Nov  3 14:36:20 2003
From: dbatech at wolfwares.com (Drew Wutka)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:36:20 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] OT: Noisy computer
In-Reply-To: <3FA69C42.2090405@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <HCEKKCDKADBCBMOJIMDHKEBFCIAA.dbatech@wolfwares.com>

I hope you're looking for quiet solutions, cause quite ones might not get
you quite there! <grin>

Actually, I work for a Thermal Electric company, and they've been
researching active cooling processes.

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H
Tapia
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 12:20 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] OT: Noisy computer


double BZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzT,  I'm always looking around for
quite solutions, did you catch that link for AMDMB for that super quiet
DP101 from AEROCool?



Drew Wutka wrote:

>To tie this into an Access related (actually AccessD related) post, in my
>old place (one before the fire), I had my servers near the foot of my
>bed...and those things were NOISY.  Of course, one of the fans was going
>out, so that didn't help! <grin> But now that they're in the closet, I can
>soundly sleep at night, and still host the archives! <grin> (Come on, give
>me points for trying to tie that in!)
>
>Drew
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net]
>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:00 AM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Noisy computer
>
>
>dittos here: aka "My Bullpen"
>
>JB
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
>>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 10:19 AM
>>To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Noisy computer
>>
>>
>>I just put my servers in the closet.  Don't care how noisy they
>>get.  Can't
>>hear them! <grin>
>>
>>Drew
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>


--
-Francisco


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From john at winhaven.net  Mon Nov  3 14:36:35 2003
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:36:35 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
In-Reply-To: <007101c3a23e$42215a60$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>
Message-ID: <LPBBLAKMHEDAKJKENHKIOELKEMAA.john@winhaven.net>

Hi Andy,
I'm bouncing between Powerpoint 97 and 2k right now. The biggest difference
I see is the standard views in 2k. The outline next to the slide view is
nice. There are some other little things that different people have
mentioned to me also. Nothing that most people would pay to upgrade for
though.

I haven't used the HTML export thingie but that sounds quite dramaticly
improved and of course I think the VBA is a newer version, haven't use dit
though.

JB

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 1:11 PM
> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving';
> dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
>
>
> This is first trial of new policy. I'm cross-posting to AccesD and the
> Tech list but please reply ONLY to the the tech list as this is no way
> Access-related - I just need guidance.
>
> Are there any Powerpoint experts out there? If so can someone tell me
> what, if any, are the main pros and cons of the Office 97, 2000 and XP
> versions of Powerpoint? And which is the best, and why? I've read the MS
> docs on this but am interested in "real" experience.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help. And if you're not yet on the tech list
> you can subscribe via
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>
> Andy Lacey
> http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>



From dbatech at wolfwares.com  Mon Nov  3 14:37:35 2003
From: dbatech at wolfwares.com (Drew Wutka)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:37:35 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPGEAFFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <HCEKKCDKADBCBMOJIMDHOEBFCIAA.dbatech@wolfwares.com>

Thought we finally had a smooth running list...sheesh! It's bad enough
you're here JC, but then again, someone's gotta ask the questions!
<evilgrin>

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Colby
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 1:48 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


There goes the neighborhood!

<VBG>

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William
Hindman
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 2:23 PM
To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


...ok ...I've added this, yet another list to my inundated mailboxes because
the moderators finally showed some spunk over on AccessD ...I hope its worth
the pain :)

William Hindman
<http://www.freestateproject.org> - Next Year In The Free State!

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From andy at minstersystems.co.uk  Mon Nov  3 15:07:36 2003
From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:07:36 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
In-Reply-To: <3FA6B2D6.9090907@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <008601c3a24e$82006a80$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>

Whoa, thanks Marty. A bit advanced for starters but v. useful link for
the future. Appreciate it.

Andy Lacey
http://www.minstersystems.co.uk 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of 
> MartyConnelly
> Sent: 03 November 2003 19:56
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
> 
> 
> Might get some hints on differences here; in use of VBA with 
> Powerpoint. http://www.mvps.org/skp/
> 
> 
> Martin Reid wrote:
> 
> >Andy
> >
> >Depend what you want to do. I found for your bog standard 
> presentation 
> >theres little difference. We recently moved to XP so not much to say 
> >yet but I have taken intro courses and further powerpoint courses in 
> >the University and the only thing I have changed in the 
> manuals is the 
> >screen dumps.
> >
> >Depends what you need to so with it???
> >
> >Martin
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Andy Lacey" <andy at minstersystems.co.uk>
> >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'"
> ><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>; <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> >Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:11 AM
> >Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >>This is first trial of new policy. I'm cross-posting to 
> AccesD and the 
> >>Tech list but please reply ONLY to the the tech list as 
> this is no way 
> >>Access-related - I just need guidance.
> >>
> >>Are there any Powerpoint experts out there? If so can 
> someone tell me 
> >>what, if any, are the main pros and cons of the Office 97, 
> 2000 and XP 
> >>versions of Powerpoint? And which is the best, and why? 
> I've read the 
> >>MS docs on this but am interested in "real" experience.
> >>
> >>Thanks in advance for any help. And if you're not yet on 
> the tech list 
> >>you can subscribe via 
> >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> >>
> >>Andy Lacey
> >>http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>dba-Tech mailing list
> >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >dba-Tech mailing list
> >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> -- 
> Marty Connelly
> Victoria, B.C.
> Canada
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/d> ba-tech
> 
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 



From garykjos at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  3 15:13:22 2003
From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:13:22 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
Message-ID: <BAY2-F50NUPdRKpu6uG0002b318@hotmail.com>

Welcome to you William and to all the new members of dba-Tech spurred to 
join by the "new rules" on AccessD.

Gary Kjos
garykjos at hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Never get a busy signal because you are always connected  with high-speed 
Internet access. Click here to comparison-shop providers.  
https://broadband.msn.com


From bchacc at san.rr.com  Mon Nov  3 15:40:49 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:40:49 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
References: <BAY2-F50NUPdRKpu6uG0002b318@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <02a901c3a253$25e7a830$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

Ah, fooey.

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gary Kjos" <garykjos at hotmail.com>
To: <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


> Welcome to you William and to all the new members of dba-Tech spurred to
> join by the "new rules" on AccessD.
>
> Gary Kjos
> garykjos at hotmail.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Never get a busy signal because you are always connected  with high-speed
> Internet access. Click here to comparison-shop providers.
> https://broadband.msn.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Mon Nov  3 16:21:01 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:21:01 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF6DBB@stekelbes.ithelps.local>

OK, it's me again.

I still stand with my remarks. I'm implemented a lot of switch several years ago and am very much aware how layer 2 and 3 switches work. Layer 4 don't know. Not in to that business anymore.
As I already commented it is wrong to say that switches will always will improve your bandwith.
A switch will only be able to do his thing when some condtions are true.
These coditions are most of the time present but not always. 

But generaly you could conclude a switch will have network performance effect when
1) 2 servers/hosts or more with each his own direct link to the switch
2) When having only one server the server link bandwith MUST be higher than the (single) client bandwith.

It all turns about the slowest link principle. With a switch you create dynamic virtual connections. The slowest link at that time will decide the bandwith for that connection.

Small example.
You have:
1x client A at 100Mbps
1x client B at 100Mbps
1x x-port switch all 100Mbps
1x server S at 100Mbps

Both clients starts sending large data to the server at maximum speed (let's say each 100Mbps to make an easy calc).
Question: What will be the maximum network bandwith obtained to the server?
A) 100Mbps
B) 200Mbps
C) 300Mbps

Right, a) 100 Mbps, why? Because the server has only one 100Mbps link. 
Will this go faster than a hub. No. Infact, a switch has to make a decision based on MAC or IP address and this takes time. So, I would like to believe it will be slightly slower than a hub...

If a was talking about speed in my previous mails I could have mixed speed and bandwith.
You have the network speed (should be bandwith), and you have speed (or performance) of the switch.
Speed of a switch is the delay (lack of) and the quantity of ethernet packets it can manipulate per second.

I remember me some figures (delay times) but I supose they will be much lower now.
A router takes about 600 to 800?sec to make a decision (and change) to forward a packet to a port based on IP or other layer 3 routable protocol.
A switch took (in 1996 or so) around 180?sec based on Mac.
A hub none... Because it doesn't take a look inside the pakket.. It justs repeats stupidly. A hub is nothing more than a stupid (bon-intelligent but active) repeater.

So if you wanna see bandwith improvement on a single server network you must have a 1Gb connection to the server (thats what I would suggest) or use dual link between server and switch. Both server and switch must support dual links (teamed links?).
By this you would have 200Mb between server and switch and you could now have 2 clients running at full speed (100Mb). 
I'm not sure about this dual link if both are full duplex, maybe it depends on the brand but I believe I read somewhere that with a dual link you have 100Mb upstream and 100mb downstream. Which would result that when both clients are sending they only would have 50 Mb each. If one would send other receive they would have each 100Mbps.

This is the theoricatal best situation because, if you don't have a heavely loaded network, you will have more bandwith, but not used.
It's like having a east-west coast pipeline and you only send a drop of water trough it... The switch is of no use due to lack of trafic. You would better put your money in a good server or applications or new pc's...

But hey, don't get me wrong. I'm 100% pro switches. If you are having doubts for buying a switch or a hub, buy a switch. You gonna need it someday. Prices are down, but I'm not that sure if performance of those cheap  ones are good. 

But don't say switches will always improve speed. It really depends on your network configuration.

Erwin





-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:11 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues; jimdettman at earthlink.net
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


Jim,
 I'm replying to the dba-tech list as that is the proper list for this 
topic :).  On that note, some of your more recent Switches also come w/ 
somthing called spanning trees.

Jim Dettman wrote:

>Drew/Erwin,
>
>  One minor correction.  Switches don't use NAT tables.  They use MAC 
>Address lists and ARP tables.  NAT is something done only in a router.
>
>Jim Dettman
>President,
>Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc.
>(315) 699-3443
>jimdettman at earthlink.net
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:59 AM
>To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>
>
>Read Erwins post a little while ago, was waiting for your's before I 
>replied! <grin>
>
>Erwin, switches also use NAT tables.  Because of this, they don't have 
>to broadcast everything in all directions.  They're 'smart', when a 
>packet comes in, they can properly direct it.  The downside to the NAT 
>tables is that if you blow the NAT table away, it has to be rebuilt, so 
>sometimes on an initial powerup, a switch may seem slower, which is 
>simply the time it is using to build the NAT tables.
>
>Drew
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Frank Tanner III [mailto:pctech at mybellybutton.com]
>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:35 AM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>
>
>And they improve speed.
>
>Because they do not SHARE the bandwidth amongst the
>ports.  A 10-BaseT hub SHARES that speed amongst the
>available ports.  This dividing the individual
>bandwidth per port.
>
>A switch allocates all available bandwidth on a PER
>PORT basis.
>
>Maybe you need to learn what you are talking about
>before you give out false information.
>
>--- Erwin Craps <Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be> wrote:
>  
>
>>And to be correct, switches don't improve speed
>>(compared to hub's) they
>>improve bandwith and reduce collisions!!!
>>Switches create virtual point to point connections.
>>
>>Switches do improve speed compared to routers.
>>
>>Erwin
>>
>>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens
>>Frank Tanner III
>>Verzonden: zaterdag 1 november 2003 16:23
>>Aan: Access Developers discussion and problem
>>solving
>>Onderwerp: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>of)
>>
>>
>>Switches will ALWAYS improve your speed over hubs.
>>Period.
>>
>>Hubs SHARE the same bandwidth on all ports.
>>Switches
>>allocate the max bandwidth per port.
>>
>>You are incorrect.
>>
>>--- Erwin Craps <Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be> wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>But switches have no sense in a 1 server
>>>      
>>>
>>environment
>>    
>>
>>>because all of the
>>>trafic goes and comes from one point.
>>>Unless your clients are 100Mb and the uplink to
>>>      
>>>
>>the
>>    
>>
>>>server is 1Gb.
>>>
>>>People often believe switches will improve their
>>>network speed, but that
>>>is not always the case.
>>>But indeed the prices of the switches have dropped
>>>that you buy a switch
>>>at the price of a good hub these days.
>>>
>>>Erwin
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On
>>>Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
>>>- Beach Access Software
>>>Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 1:55 AM
>>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>      
>>>
>>solving
>>    
>>
>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>>of)
>>>
>>>
>>>Got it. I think.  Switch can route packet based on
>>>IP address but can't
>>>generate an IP address.  Yes?
>>>
>>>Rocky
>>>
>>>
>>>Rocky
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>      
>>>
>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>    
>>
>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>solving"
>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 10:29 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>>of)
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>It is sort of half-way, but not really.
>>>>
>>>>Switches are a "generation" better.  Hubs and
>>>>switches, on their most basic level perform the
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>same function.  They
>>>      
>>>
>>>>distribute network traffic.  But HOW they
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>distribute that traffic is
>>>      
>>>
>>>>fundimentally different.
>>>>
>>>>Unless they're one of the newer layer 3 or layer
>>>>        
>>>>
>>4 switches, they
>>    
>>
>>>>cannot perform routing functions.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>They
>>>      
>>>
>>>>just hand packets off from point A to point B.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Think
>>>      
>>>
>>>>of them as sort of a postman.  They have an
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>address
>>>      
>>>
>>>>for each device on the network and they hand off
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>each
>>>      
>>>
>>>>piece of mail to the appropriate address.  A
>>>>        
>>>>
>>hub,
>>    
>>
>>>>using this sama analagy would deliver the same
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>piece
>>>      
>>>
>>>>of mail to every house and the one that it
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>belonged to
>>>      
>>>
>>>>would be the one that actually reads it.
>>>>
>>>>--- Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
>>>>        
>>>>
>><bchacc at san.rr.com> wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>>>"but it's as close as I could think of without
>>>>>getting too technical."
>>>>>
>>>>>Thank you.  Much appreciated.  So a switch is
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>like
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>halfway between a hub and
>>>>>a router?
>>>>>
>>>>>Rocky
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>>>solving"
>>>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 7:36 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>(sort
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>of)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>A router and a switch are fundimentall
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>different
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A router does just that.  It routes network
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>traffic.
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>A switch plays "traffic cop" for a network.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Newer switches, especially the layer 3 and
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>layer 4
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>ones can perform both functions.This isn't
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>an
>>    
>>
>>>>>exact
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>definition, but it's as close as I could
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>think
>>    
>>
>>>of
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>without getting too technical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--- Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>><bchacc at san.rr.com>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is there a difference between a switch and
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>a
>>    
>>
>>>>>router?
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Rocky
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>problem
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>>solving"
>>>>>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 6:54 AM
>>>>>>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>network
>>    
>>
>>>>>(sort
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>of)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I recommend "hardwiring" the IP address
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>of
>>    
>>
>>>any
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>>device
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>or server connected to your LAN that's
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>not
>>    
>>
>>>a workstation and
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>>>is virtually always on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>For the price, I would also highly
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>recommend
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>>removing
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>all hubs from your network and using
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>them
>>    
>>
>>>as doorstops.
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>>>Switches have come way down in
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>price
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>have many benifits over hubs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hubs divide the bandwidth across all
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>ports.
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>Thus
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>if
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>you have an 8-port 10-BaseT hub, all
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>ports
>>    
>>
>>>>>that
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>processing data split that 10Mbit.  A
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>=== message truncated ===
>
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com 
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com 
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com 
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com 
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>  
>


-- 
-Francisco


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Nov  3 16:25:29 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John Colby)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:25:29 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
In-Reply-To: <HCEKKCDKADBCBMOJIMDHOEBFCIAA.dbatech@wolfwares.com>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPIEAMFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

Hey, I've been here since the beginning, it's just that there was no
traffic.  Now that the steeenking moderators are gonna force us off AccessD
perhaps we'll see a little noise over here.

;-)

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 3:38 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


Thought we finally had a smooth running list...sheesh! It's bad enough
you're here JC, but then again, someone's gotta ask the questions!
<evilgrin>

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Colby
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 1:48 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


There goes the neighborhood!

<VBG>

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William
Hindman
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 2:23 PM
To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


...ok ...I've added this, yet another list to my inundated mailboxes because
the moderators finally showed some spunk over on AccessD ...I hope its worth
the pain :)

William Hindman
<http://www.freestateproject.org> - Next Year In The Free State!

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From dbatech at wolfwares.com  Mon Nov  3 16:29:06 2003
From: dbatech at wolfwares.com (Drew Wutka)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:29:06 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPIEAMFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <HCEKKCDKADBCBMOJIMDHCECDCIAA.dbatech@wolfwares.com>

I know, just yanking your chain.

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Colby
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 4:25 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


Hey, I've been here since the beginning, it's just that there was no
traffic.  Now that the steeenking moderators are gonna force us off AccessD
perhaps we'll see a little noise over here.

;-)

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 3:38 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


Thought we finally had a smooth running list...sheesh! It's bad enough
you're here JC, but then again, someone's gotta ask the questions!
<evilgrin>

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Colby
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 1:48 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


There goes the neighborhood!

<VBG>

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William
Hindman
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 2:23 PM
To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


...ok ...I've added this, yet another list to my inundated mailboxes because
the moderators finally showed some spunk over on AccessD ...I hope its worth
the pain :)

William Hindman
<http://www.freestateproject.org> - Next Year In The Free State!

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



_______________________________________________
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dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



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dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Nov  3 16:32:36 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John Colby)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:32:36 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)
In-Reply-To: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF6DBB@stekelbes.ithelps.local>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPIEANFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

Erwin,

But none of that takes into account collisions and retransmissions due to
collisions.  Hubs have that to deal with, switches don't.

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Erwin Craps
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 5:21 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


OK, it's me again.

I still stand with my remarks. I'm implemented a lot of switch several years
ago and am very much aware how layer 2 and 3 switches work. Layer 4 don't
know. Not in to that business anymore.
As I already commented it is wrong to say that switches will always will
improve your bandwith.
A switch will only be able to do his thing when some condtions are true.
These coditions are most of the time present but not always.

But generaly you could conclude a switch will have network performance
effect when
1) 2 servers/hosts or more with each his own direct link to the switch
2) When having only one server the server link bandwith MUST be higher than
the (single) client bandwith.

It all turns about the slowest link principle. With a switch you create
dynamic virtual connections. The slowest link at that time will decide the
bandwith for that connection.

Small example.
You have:
1x client A at 100Mbps
1x client B at 100Mbps
1x x-port switch all 100Mbps
1x server S at 100Mbps

Both clients starts sending large data to the server at maximum speed (let's
say each 100Mbps to make an easy calc).
Question: What will be the maximum network bandwith obtained to the server?
A) 100Mbps
B) 200Mbps
C) 300Mbps

Right, a) 100 Mbps, why? Because the server has only one 100Mbps link.
Will this go faster than a hub. No. Infact, a switch has to make a decision
based on MAC or IP address and this takes time. So, I would like to believe
it will be slightly slower than a hub...

If a was talking about speed in my previous mails I could have mixed speed
and bandwith.
You have the network speed (should be bandwith), and you have speed (or
performance) of the switch.
Speed of a switch is the delay (lack of) and the quantity of ethernet
packets it can manipulate per second.

I remember me some figures (delay times) but I supose they will be much
lower now.
A router takes about 600 to 800?sec to make a decision (and change) to
forward a packet to a port based on IP or other layer 3 routable protocol.
A switch took (in 1996 or so) around 180?sec based on Mac.
A hub none... Because it doesn't take a look inside the pakket.. It justs
repeats stupidly. A hub is nothing more than a stupid (bon-intelligent but
active) repeater.

So if you wanna see bandwith improvement on a single server network you must
have a 1Gb connection to the server (thats what I would suggest) or use dual
link between server and switch. Both server and switch must support dual
links (teamed links?).
By this you would have 200Mb between server and switch and you could now
have 2 clients running at full speed (100Mb).
I'm not sure about this dual link if both are full duplex, maybe it depends
on the brand but I believe I read somewhere that with a dual link you have
100Mb upstream and 100mb downstream. Which would result that when both
clients are sending they only would have 50 Mb each. If one would send other
receive they would have each 100Mbps.

This is the theoricatal best situation because, if you don't have a heavely
loaded network, you will have more bandwith, but not used.
It's like having a east-west coast pipeline and you only send a drop of
water trough it... The switch is of no use due to lack of trafic. You would
better put your money in a good server or applications or new pc's...

But hey, don't get me wrong. I'm 100% pro switches. If you are having doubts
for buying a switch or a hub, buy a switch. You gonna need it someday.
Prices are down, but I'm not that sure if performance of those cheap  ones
are good.

But don't say switches will always improve speed. It really depends on your
network configuration.

Erwin





-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H
Tapia
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:11 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues; jimdettman at earthlink.net
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


Jim,
 I'm replying to the dba-tech list as that is the proper list for this
topic :).  On that note, some of your more recent Switches also come w/
somthing called spanning trees.

Jim Dettman wrote:

>Drew/Erwin,
>
>  One minor correction.  Switches don't use NAT tables.  They use MAC
>Address lists and ARP tables.  NAT is something done only in a router.
>
>Jim Dettman
>President,
>Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc.
>(315) 699-3443
>jimdettman at earthlink.net
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:59 AM
>To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>
>
>Read Erwins post a little while ago, was waiting for your's before I
>replied! <grin>
>
>Erwin, switches also use NAT tables.  Because of this, they don't have
>to broadcast everything in all directions.  They're 'smart', when a
>packet comes in, they can properly direct it.  The downside to the NAT
>tables is that if you blow the NAT table away, it has to be rebuilt, so
>sometimes on an initial powerup, a switch may seem slower, which is
>simply the time it is using to build the NAT tables.
>
>Drew
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Frank Tanner III [mailto:pctech at mybellybutton.com]
>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:35 AM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>
>
>And they improve speed.
>
>Because they do not SHARE the bandwidth amongst the
>ports.  A 10-BaseT hub SHARES that speed amongst the
>available ports.  This dividing the individual
>bandwidth per port.
>
>A switch allocates all available bandwidth on a PER
>PORT basis.
>
>Maybe you need to learn what you are talking about
>before you give out false information.
>
>--- Erwin Craps <Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be> wrote:
>
>
>>And to be correct, switches don't improve speed
>>(compared to hub's) they
>>improve bandwith and reduce collisions!!!
>>Switches create virtual point to point connections.
>>
>>Switches do improve speed compared to routers.
>>
>>Erwin
>>
>>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens
>>Frank Tanner III
>>Verzonden: zaterdag 1 november 2003 16:23
>>Aan: Access Developers discussion and problem
>>solving
>>Onderwerp: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>of)
>>
>>
>>Switches will ALWAYS improve your speed over hubs.
>>Period.
>>
>>Hubs SHARE the same bandwidth on all ports.
>>Switches
>>allocate the max bandwidth per port.
>>
>>You are incorrect.
>>
>>--- Erwin Craps <Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>But switches have no sense in a 1 server
>>>
>>>
>>environment
>>
>>
>>>because all of the
>>>trafic goes and comes from one point.
>>>Unless your clients are 100Mb and the uplink to
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>server is 1Gb.
>>>
>>>People often believe switches will improve their
>>>network speed, but that
>>>is not always the case.
>>>But indeed the prices of the switches have dropped
>>>that you buy a switch
>>>at the price of a good hub these days.
>>>
>>>Erwin
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On
>>>Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
>>>- Beach Access Software
>>>Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 1:55 AM
>>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>
>>>
>>solving
>>
>>
>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>>of)
>>>
>>>
>>>Got it. I think.  Switch can route packet based on
>>>IP address but can't
>>>generate an IP address.  Yes?
>>>
>>>Rocky
>>>
>>>
>>>Rocky
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>
>>>
>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>
>>
>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>solving"
>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 10:29 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>>of)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>It is sort of half-way, but not really.
>>>>
>>>>Switches are a "generation" better.  Hubs and
>>>>switches, on their most basic level perform the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>same function.  They
>>>
>>>
>>>>distribute network traffic.  But HOW they
>>>>
>>>>
>>>distribute that traffic is
>>>
>>>
>>>>fundimentally different.
>>>>
>>>>Unless they're one of the newer layer 3 or layer
>>>>
>>>>
>>4 switches, they
>>
>>
>>>>cannot perform routing functions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>They
>>>
>>>
>>>>just hand packets off from point A to point B.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Think
>>>
>>>
>>>>of them as sort of a postman.  They have an
>>>>
>>>>
>>>address
>>>
>>>
>>>>for each device on the network and they hand off
>>>>
>>>>
>>>each
>>>
>>>
>>>>piece of mail to the appropriate address.  A
>>>>
>>>>
>>hub,
>>
>>
>>>>using this sama analagy would deliver the same
>>>>
>>>>
>>>piece
>>>
>>>
>>>>of mail to every house and the one that it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>belonged to
>>>
>>>
>>>>would be the one that actually reads it.
>>>>
>>>>--- Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
>>>>
>>>>
>><bchacc at san.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>"but it's as close as I could think of without
>>>>>getting too technical."
>>>>>
>>>>>Thank you.  Much appreciated.  So a switch is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>like
>>>
>>>
>>>>>halfway between a hub and
>>>>>a router?
>>>>>
>>>>>Rocky
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>>>solving"
>>>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 7:36 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>(sort
>>>
>>>
>>>>>of)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>A router and a switch are fundimentall
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>different
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A router does just that.  It routes network
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>traffic.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>A switch plays "traffic cop" for a network.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Newer switches, especially the layer 3 and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>layer 4
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>ones can perform both functions.This isn't
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>an
>>
>>
>>>>>exact
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>definition, but it's as close as I could
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>think
>>
>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>without getting too technical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--- Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>><bchacc at san.rr.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is there a difference between a switch and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>a
>>
>>
>>>>>router?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Rocky
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>problem
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>solving"
>>>>>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 6:54 AM
>>>>>>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>network
>>
>>
>>>>>(sort
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>of)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I recommend "hardwiring" the IP address
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>of
>>
>>
>>>any
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>device
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>or server connected to your LAN that's
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>not
>>
>>
>>>a workstation and
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>is virtually always on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>For the price, I would also highly
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>recommend
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>removing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>all hubs from your network and using
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>them
>>
>>
>>>as doorstops.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>Switches have come way down in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>price
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>have many benifits over hubs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hubs divide the bandwidth across all
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>ports.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Thus
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>if
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>you have an 8-port 10-BaseT hub, all
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>ports
>>
>>
>>>>>that
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>processing data split that 10Mbit.  A
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>=== message truncated ===
>
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>


--
-Francisco


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Nov  3 16:33:08 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John Colby)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:33:08 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
In-Reply-To: <HCEKKCDKADBCBMOJIMDHCECDCIAA.dbatech@wolfwares.com>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMEANFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

ah, go yank William's chain.  It's far more fun!

;-)

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 5:29 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


I know, just yanking your chain.

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Colby
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 4:25 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


Hey, I've been here since the beginning, it's just that there was no
traffic.  Now that the steeenking moderators are gonna force us off AccessD
perhaps we'll see a little noise over here.

;-)

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 3:38 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


Thought we finally had a smooth running list...sheesh! It's bad enough
you're here JC, but then again, someone's gotta ask the questions!
<evilgrin>

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Colby
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 1:48 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


There goes the neighborhood!

<VBG>

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William
Hindman
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 2:23 PM
To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


...ok ...I've added this, yet another list to my inundated mailboxes because
the moderators finally showed some spunk over on AccessD ...I hope its worth
the pain :)

William Hindman
<http://www.freestateproject.org> - Next Year In The Free State!

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From kathryn at bassett.net  Mon Nov  3 17:03:15 2003
From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:03:15 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
In-Reply-To: <003e01c3a23f$e4c040f0$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>
Message-ID: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIOEOIHGAB.kathryn@bassett.net>

For everyone - just because it's different lists, that doesn't mean it can't go to same folder. I have one folder for only AccessD. I have another for only the OT list. Then I have another folder that *all* the other lists go to - tech, mods, board, etc. Food for thought.

--
Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
"Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
kathryn at bassett.net
http://bassett.net  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William
> Hindman
> Sent: 03 Nov 2003 11:23:AM
> To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
> 
> 
> ...ok ...I've added this, yet another list to my inundated mailboxes because the 
> moderators finally showed some spunk over on AccessD ...I hope its worth the pain :)
> 
> William Hindman
> <http://www.freestateproject.org> - Next Year In The Free State!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From tomk at multiline.com.au  Sun Nov  2 17:18:48 2003
From: tomk at multiline.com.au (Tom Keatley)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:18:48 +0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPIEANFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <005101c3a197$ab854f40$0300a8c0@print>

Jeeeez....
...It seems this thread is going to go on forever
...its starting to become like a MAC Vs PC argument.

I run an internal network of about 15 computers and 12 (IP fed) printers
based on 100 Mbs HUBS in a (mainly)Win2000Pro network ...we currently have a
16 port Netgear and a number of 8 ports to acheive the connections. I have
Access front ends on most of the computers with a single backend
(interestingly enough called BACKEND) this is a 2.8Ghz Intel with 512 megs
of memory

At certain times of the month (as printing is our business) we can have
literally THOUSANDS of small 1 to 2 Mb print files spooling to the printers
and running around the network.

As the network has grown over the last few years I have noticed a steady
DECREASE in speed and performance and an INCREASE in corrupt print files
....when I say corrupt I mean that the file will arrive at the computer it
is spooling to and we will get an error saying that the file FAILED to
print... I have always put this down to the file somehow being corrupted
within the network....It always seems to retry itself and ultimately DOES
print.

My supplier has suggested moving my HUBS to SWITCHES and I currently have on
loan from him a PLANET NOVA 16 port 100Mbs SWITCH (although I havent yet
installed it) .

On the strength of what you guys have been talking about I am thinking that
I should "Bite The Bullet" and go straight to a GIGA network switch and
bypass the 100Mbs switch altogether...The prices have dropped substantially
on these recently and utimately I will probably need to do this anyway...

At the risk of starting a war could I call for opinions on this...

Regards

Tom Keatley






OK, it's me again.

I still stand with my remarks. I'm implemented a lot of switch several years
ago and am very much aware how layer 2 and 3 switches work. Layer 4 don't
know. Not in to that business anymore.
As I already commented it is wrong to say that switches will always will
improve your bandwith.
A switch will only be able to do his thing when some condtions are true.
These coditions are most of the time present but not always.

But generaly you could conclude a switch will have network performance
effect when
1) 2 servers/hosts or more with each his own direct link to the switch
2) When having only one server the server link bandwith MUST be higher than
the (single) client bandwith.



From my.lists at verizon.net  Mon Nov  3 17:39:41 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:39:41 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMEANFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMEANFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <3FA6E73D.80208@verizon.net>

It's good to see that there are no hard feelings John :D

John Colby wrote:

>Hey, I've been here since the beginning, it's just that there was no
>traffic.  Now that the steeenking moderators are gonna force us off AccessD
>perhaps we'll see a little noise over here.
>
>;-)
>
>John W. Colby
>www.colbyconsulting.com
>  
>


-- 
-Francisco



From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Mon Nov  3 17:50:19 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:50:19 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
In-Reply-To: <008501c3a249$81cbb830$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>
References: <006901c3a23f$b0b77bc0$a6f66e51@martin1>
Message-ID: <3FA6A36B.11456.287CD3@localhost>

On 3 Nov 2003 at 20:31, Andy Lacey wrote:

> The situation is that no-one at the customer has used it at all, and
> I'm a novice myself. So now they feel the need, which is going to
> involve purchasing copies (only have Office 97 so it's going to cost
> to get later versions), training courses, books etc, and the question
> I'm asked is "Which version shall we invest in?"

If all they have is O97, then you/they have already invested in 
PPT97, so why bother looking anywhere else?

If they haven't used it before, then they won't need any of the new 
features. :-)

Use the K.I.S.S. principle.

Keep It Simple Son

About the only thing that springs to mind on the improvements is in 
PPT2K and PPT XP there is more support for various animations in the 
slides, as well as animated graphics formats IIRC.

That's all that I can recall being significantly different. Or 
atleast that's what the instructors I work with have mentioned.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Stupid questions are better than stupid mistakes. - Japanese proverb



From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Mon Nov  3 17:55:28 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:55:28 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPIEAMFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <HCEKKCDKADBCBMOJIMDHOEBFCIAA.dbatech@wolfwares.com>
Message-ID: <3FA6A4A0.7911.2D3385@localhost>

On 3 Nov 2003 at 17:25, John Colby wrote:

> Hey, I've been here since the beginning, it's just that there was no
> traffic.  Now that the steeenking moderators are gonna force us off

Hey, we're not stinking. Or at least I;m not. I shower once a day 
:-))

> AccessD perhaps we'll see a little noise over here.

No not noise, but intelligent discussions of a technical nature.
 
Things along the lines of "the discussion of Hardware and Software 
related issues that don't belong into any specific list, but are 
still technical issues around the computer."

:-)

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
I've learned....
That one should keep his words both soft and tender, because tomorrow 
he may have to eat them.



From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Mon Nov  3 17:55:28 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:55:28 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLAKMHEDAKJKENHKIOELKEMAA.john@winhaven.net>
References: <007101c3a23e$42215a60$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>
Message-ID: <3FA6A4A0.14136.2D3321@localhost>

On 3 Nov 2003 at 14:36, John Bartow wrote:

> I haven't used the HTML export thingie but that sounds quite
> dramaticly improved and of course I think the VBA is a newer version,
> haven't use dit though.

The HTML export in 2K is actually quite nice, although I never used 
it PPT97. It helped me impress my boss and quite a few other senior 
managers at work last week. I had to export several slide shows to 
HTML to get different background images so I could combine several 
shows into one.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
When you don't know what to do, walk fast and look worried.



From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Mon Nov  3 17:55:28 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:55:28 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
In-Reply-To: <02a901c3a253$25e7a830$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <3FA6A4A0.17636.2D32B3@localhost>

On 3 Nov 2003 at 13:40, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote:

> Ah, fooey.

Welcome to you too Rocky :-))

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Never test for a bug you don't know how to fix.



From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Nov  3 18:28:24 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John Colby)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:28:24 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
In-Reply-To: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIOEOIHGAB.kathryn@bassett.net>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMEBAFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

awww you're nobody.  I have - count em - 13 DBA folders; owners, BOD, Ops,
Eng etc etc.  'Course I only get traffic on a handful.

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn
Bassett
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 6:03 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


For everyone - just because it's different lists, that doesn't mean it can't
go to same folder. I have one folder for only AccessD. I have another for
only the OT list. Then I have another folder that *all* the other lists go
to - tech, mods, board, etc. Food for thought.

--
Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
"Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
kathryn at bassett.net
http://bassett.net

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William
> Hindman
> Sent: 03 Nov 2003 11:23:AM
> To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
>
>
> ...ok ...I've added this, yet another list to my inundated mailboxes
because the
> moderators finally showed some spunk over on AccessD ...I hope its worth
the pain :)
>
> William Hindman
> <http://www.freestateproject.org> - Next Year In The Free State!
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From kathryn at bassett.net  Mon Nov  3 18:40:22 2003
From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:40:22 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Not boolean, but what?
In-Reply-To: <3FA6A36B.11456.287CD3@localhost>
Message-ID: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIKEOOHGAB.kathryn@bassett.net>

About the time I left for SLC or while I was there, there was a thread on one of the lists (I think AccessD, with the Spam Filter thread) in which a special kind of filter was talked about. Someone posted a site where we could type in an email address and it would turn it into alt characters. I thought I kept the post, but I can't find it. A word was used either in that posting, or another in a similar thread, and I can't remember that word to hunt for it in the archives. Somebody know what I'm talking about? I need that URL.

--
Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
"Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
kathryn at bassett.net
http://bassett.net  


From wdhindman at bellsouth.net  Mon Nov  3 18:51:00 2003
From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:51:00 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Not boolean, but what?
References: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIKEOOHGAB.kathryn@bassett.net>
Message-ID: <01be01c3a26d$b70a0cd0$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>

...Bayesian filters :)

William Hindman
<http://www.freestateproject.org> - Next Year In The Free State!


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kathryn Bassett" <kathryn at bassett.net>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 7:40 PM
Subject: [dba-Tech] Not boolean, but what?


> About the time I left for SLC or while I was there, there was a thread on
one of the lists (I think AccessD, with the Spam Filter thread) in which a
special kind of filter was talked about. Someone posted a site where we
could type in an email address and it would turn it into alt characters. I
thought I kept the post, but I can't find it. A word was used either in that
posting, or another in a similar thread, and I can't remember that word to
hunt for it in the archives. Somebody know what I'm talking about? I need
that URL.
>
> --
> Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
> "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
> kathryn at bassett.net
> http://bassett.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Nov  3 18:56:30 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John Colby)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:56:30 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Wireless security
In-Reply-To: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF6DBB@stekelbes.ithelps.local>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPIEBCFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

OK, so now that we have all the exspurts here, let's have a discussion on
wireless security.  I just got my wireless network up and running.  I think
I have tightened things up a little bit by not broadcasting my SSID and
limiting access to a single MAC address, the card in my laptop.  The issue
though is that AFAIK the data still is being broadcast in the clear.

I was reading an article where using a new program just released, a hacker
could sit and monitor all traffic out of a computer without ever having to
transmit anything.  Just listen.  Doing so allows them to eventually (and it
only takes a matter of hours) crack the WEP encryption, and WEP is all that
the wireless router I am using provides.

The question then is, can Win2K Pro transmit / receive ALL network traffic
encrypted using more secure built-in encryption stuff?  Is anyone doing
this?

Also, even though WEP is less that secure, the recommendation is still to
use it since it keeps the script kiddies at bay.  But I haven't figured even
that much out.  My wifi router and notebook card are by different companies
and don't use the same terms etc in their software.  Is there anyone on this
list familiar enough with that stuff to assist me in getting WEP encryption
turned on?

TIA

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com



From kathryn at bassett.net  Mon Nov  3 19:02:22 2003
From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:02:22 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Not boolean, but what?
In-Reply-To: <01be01c3a26d$b70a0cd0$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>
Message-ID: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIKEPDHGAB.kathryn@bassett.net>

Well, that's the word, but evidently not the thread I'm thinking of since it didn't get me to that website to turn an email address into alt characters. Anyone else?
Kathryn

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William
> Hindman
> Sent: 03 Nov 2003 4:51:PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Not boolean, but what?
> 
> 
> ...Bayesian filters :)
> 
> William Hindman
> <http://www.freestateproject.org> - Next Year In The Free State!
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kathryn Bassett" <kathryn at bassett.net>
> To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
> <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 7:40 PM
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Not boolean, but what?
> 
> 
> > About the time I left for SLC or while I was there, there was a thread on
> one of the lists (I think AccessD, with the Spam Filter thread) in which a
> special kind of filter was talked about. Someone posted a site where we
> could type in an email address and it would turn it into alt characters. I
> thought I kept the post, but I can't find it. A word was used either in that
> posting, or another in a similar thread, and I can't remember that word to
> hunt for it in the archives. Somebody know what I'm talking about? I need
> that URL.
> >
> > --
> > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
> > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
> > kathryn at bassett.net
> > http://bassett.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Mon Nov  3 19:27:29 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:27:29 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMEBAFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIOEOIHGAB.kathryn@bassett.net>
Message-ID: <3FA6BA31.9685.817047@localhost>

On 3 Nov 2003 at 19:28, John Colby wrote:

> awww you're nobody.  I have - count em - 13 DBA folders; owners, BOD,
> Ops, Eng etc etc.  'Course I only get traffic on a handful.

13 a mere pittance John.

14 for lists and not one is BOD or owners :-)

That's not counting the off-list folders that stem from List traffic, 
my private archives either, or any of the listmaster or mod folders 
:-)

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody 
appreciates how difficult it is.



From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Mon Nov  3 19:32:39 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:32:39 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Not boolean, but what?
In-Reply-To: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIKEOOHGAB.kathryn@bassett.net>
References: <3FA6A36B.11456.287CD3@localhost>
Message-ID: <3FA6BB67.5936.862D96@localhost>

On 3 Nov 2003 at 16:40, Kathryn Bassett wrote:

> About the time I left for SLC or while I was there, there was a thread
> on one of the lists (I think AccessD, with the Spam Filter thread) in
> which a special kind of filter was talked about. Someone posted a site
> where we could type in an email address and it would turn it into alt
> characters. I thought I kept the post, but I can't find it. A word was
> used either in that posting, or another in a similar thread, and I
> can't remember that word to hunt for it in the archives. Somebody know
> what I'm talking about? I need that URL.

If I understand what you are looking for, I don't have a website that 
will do it on line, but I do have a freeware application that will do 
it. It's clled E_Cloaker and you can get it from 
http://www.codefoot.com/software/ecloaker/index.shtml

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Only the mediocre are at their best all the time.



From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Nov  3 19:35:38 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John Colby)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:35:38 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
In-Reply-To: <3FA6BA31.9685.817047@localhost>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPOEBEFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

Yea, but you're SOMEBODY.

;-)

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan
Carbonnell
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:27 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?


On 3 Nov 2003 at 19:28, John Colby wrote:

> awww you're nobody.  I have - count em - 13 DBA folders; owners, BOD,
> Ops, Eng etc etc.  'Course I only get traffic on a handful.

13 a mere pittance John.

14 for lists and not one is BOD or owners :-)

That's not counting the off-list folders that stem from List traffic, 
my private archives either, or any of the listmaster or mod folders 
:-)

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody 
appreciates how difficult it is.


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From DBCfour at aol.com  Mon Nov  3 19:43:31 2003
From: DBCfour at aol.com (DBCfour at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:43:31 EST
Subject: [dba-Tech] Not boolean, but what?
Message-ID: <ce.3fa853f8.2cd85e43@aol.com>


Well, what you're talking about is called munging.  Here's a site that'll do 
it, but it's pretty frowned upon by list admins. :-)

http://zamok.crans.org/~raffo/antispam/aem/

Donna

In a message dated 11/3/2003 8:05:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
kathryn at bassett.net writes:


> Well, that's the word, but evidently not the thread I'm thinking of since 
> it didn't get me to that website to turn an email address into alt characters. 
> Anyone else?
> Kathryn
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William
> > Hindman
> > Sent: 03 Nov 2003 4:51:PM
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Not boolean, but what?
> > 
> > 
> > ...Bayesian filters :)
> > 
> > William Hindman


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Mon Nov  3 19:47:57 2003
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:47:57 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Not boolean, but what?
In-Reply-To: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIKEOOHGAB.kathryn@bassett.net>
References: <3FA6A36B.11456.287CD3@localhost>
Message-ID: <3FA791ED.17217.DF8D66@localhost>

On 3 Nov 2003 at 16:40, Kathryn Bassett wrote:

> About the time I left for SLC or while I was there, there was a thread
> on one of the lists (I think AccessD, with the Spam Filter thread) in
> which a special kind of filter was talked about. Someone posted a site
> where we could type in an email address and it would turn it into alt
> characters. I thought I kept the post, but I can't find it. A word was
> used either in that posting, or another in a similar thread, and I
> can't remember that word to hunt for it in the archives. Somebody know
> what I'm talking about? I need that URL. 
> 
> --

http://www.wbwip.com/wbw/emailencoder.html

 
-- 
Lexacorp Ltd
http://www.lexacorp.com.pg
Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support.




From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Mon Nov  3 19:58:30 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:58:30 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] I'm here ...where is everyone?
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPOEBEFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <3FA6BA31.9685.817047@localhost>
Message-ID: <3FA6C176.7049.9DD4B3@localhost>

On 3 Nov 2003 at 20:35, John Colby wrote:

> Yea, but you're SOMEBODY.
> 
> ;-)

Tell my wife and girls that. 

Please. I beg you...  :-)

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Don't take life too seriously. You won't get out alive.



From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Tue Nov  4 01:07:10 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:07:10 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF71FD@stekelbes.ithelps.local>

Thats not totaly true.

Switches prevent collisions and resends to happen on the OTHER virtual connections.
On A point to point connection you also have collisions.
Because all trafic all goes to one link to the server that link will have all collisions to, thus taking bandwith of others connections.
Simply because you have a single bottleneck.

Erwin

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens John Colby
Verzonden: maandag 3 november 2003 23:33
Aan: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Onderwerp: RE: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


Erwin,

But none of that takes into account collisions and retransmissions due to collisions.  Hubs have that to deal with, switches don't.

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Erwin Craps
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 5:21 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


OK, it's me again.

I still stand with my remarks. I'm implemented a lot of switch several years ago and am very much aware how layer 2 and 3 switches work. Layer 4 don't know. Not in to that business anymore. As I already commented it is wrong to say that switches will always will improve your bandwith. A switch will only be able to do his thing when some condtions are true. These coditions are most of the time present but not always.

But generaly you could conclude a switch will have network performance effect when
1) 2 servers/hosts or more with each his own direct link to the switch
2) When having only one server the server link bandwith MUST be higher than the (single) client bandwith.

It all turns about the slowest link principle. With a switch you create dynamic virtual connections. The slowest link at that time will decide the bandwith for that connection.

Small example.
You have:
1x client A at 100Mbps
1x client B at 100Mbps
1x x-port switch all 100Mbps
1x server S at 100Mbps

Both clients starts sending large data to the server at maximum speed (let's say each 100Mbps to make an easy calc).
Question: What will be the maximum network bandwith obtained to the server?
A) 100Mbps
B) 200Mbps
C) 300Mbps

Right, a) 100 Mbps, why? Because the server has only one 100Mbps link. Will this go faster than a hub. No. Infact, a switch has to make a decision based on MAC or IP address and this takes time. So, I would like to believe it will be slightly slower than a hub...

If a was talking about speed in my previous mails I could have mixed speed and bandwith. You have the network speed (should be bandwith), and you have speed (or
performance) of the switch.
Speed of a switch is the delay (lack of) and the quantity of ethernet packets it can manipulate per second.

I remember me some figures (delay times) but I supose they will be much lower now. A router takes about 600 to 800?sec to make a decision (and change) to forward a packet to a port based on IP or other layer 3 routable protocol. A switch took (in 1996 or so) around 180?sec based on Mac. A hub none... Because it doesn't take a look inside the pakket.. It justs repeats stupidly. A hub is nothing more than a stupid (bon-intelligent but
active) repeater.

So if you wanna see bandwith improvement on a single server network you must have a 1Gb connection to the server (thats what I would suggest) or use dual link between server and switch. Both server and switch must support dual links (teamed links?). By this you would have 200Mb between server and switch and you could now have 2 clients running at full speed (100Mb). I'm not sure about this dual link if both are full duplex, maybe it depends on the brand but I believe I read somewhere that with a dual link you have 100Mb upstream and 100mb downstream. Which would result that when both clients are sending they only would have 50 Mb each. If one would send other receive they would have each 100Mbps.

This is the theoricatal best situation because, if you don't have a heavely loaded network, you will have more bandwith, but not used. It's like having a east-west coast pipeline and you only send a drop of water trough it... The switch is of no use due to lack of trafic. You would better put your money in a good server or applications or new pc's...

But hey, don't get me wrong. I'm 100% pro switches. If you are having doubts for buying a switch or a hub, buy a switch. You gonna need it someday. Prices are down, but I'm not that sure if performance of those cheap  ones are good.

But don't say switches will always improve speed. It really depends on your network configuration.

Erwin





-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:11 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues; jimdettman at earthlink.net
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


Jim,
 I'm replying to the dba-tech list as that is the proper list for this topic :).  On that note, some of your more recent Switches also come w/ somthing called spanning trees.

Jim Dettman wrote:

>Drew/Erwin,
>
>  One minor correction.  Switches don't use NAT tables.  They use MAC 
>Address lists and ARP tables.  NAT is something done only in a router.
>
>Jim Dettman
>President,
>Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc.
>(315) 699-3443
>jimdettman at earthlink.net
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:59 AM
>To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>
>
>Read Erwins post a little while ago, was waiting for your's before I 
>replied! <grin>
>
>Erwin, switches also use NAT tables.  Because of this, they don't have 
>to broadcast everything in all directions.  They're 'smart', when a 
>packet comes in, they can properly direct it.  The downside to the NAT 
>tables is that if you blow the NAT table away, it has to be rebuilt, so 
>sometimes on an initial powerup, a switch may seem slower, which is 
>simply the time it is using to build the NAT tables.
>
>Drew
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Frank Tanner III [mailto:pctech at mybellybutton.com]
>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:35 AM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>
>
>And they improve speed.
>
>Because they do not SHARE the bandwidth amongst the
>ports.  A 10-BaseT hub SHARES that speed amongst the
>available ports.  This dividing the individual
>bandwidth per port.
>
>A switch allocates all available bandwidth on a PER
>PORT basis.
>
>Maybe you need to learn what you are talking about
>before you give out false information.
>
>--- Erwin Craps <Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be> wrote:
>
>
>>And to be correct, switches don't improve speed
>>(compared to hub's) they
>>improve bandwith and reduce collisions!!!
>>Switches create virtual point to point connections.
>>
>>Switches do improve speed compared to routers.
>>
>>Erwin
>>
>>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens
>>Frank Tanner III
>>Verzonden: zaterdag 1 november 2003 16:23
>>Aan: Access Developers discussion and problem
>>solving
>>Onderwerp: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>of)
>>
>>
>>Switches will ALWAYS improve your speed over hubs.
>>Period.
>>
>>Hubs SHARE the same bandwidth on all ports.
>>Switches
>>allocate the max bandwidth per port.
>>
>>You are incorrect.
>>
>>--- Erwin Craps <Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>But switches have no sense in a 1 server
>>>
>>>
>>environment
>>
>>
>>>because all of the
>>>trafic goes and comes from one point.
>>>Unless your clients are 100Mb and the uplink to
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>server is 1Gb.
>>>
>>>People often believe switches will improve their
>>>network speed, but that
>>>is not always the case.
>>>But indeed the prices of the switches have dropped
>>>that you buy a switch
>>>at the price of a good hub these days.
>>>
>>>Erwin
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On
>>>Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
>>>- Beach Access Software
>>>Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 1:55 AM
>>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>
>>>
>>solving
>>
>>
>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>>of)
>>>
>>>
>>>Got it. I think.  Switch can route packet based on
>>>IP address but can't
>>>generate an IP address.  Yes?
>>>
>>>Rocky
>>>
>>>
>>>Rocky
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>
>>>
>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>
>>
>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>solving"
>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 10:29 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>>of)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>It is sort of half-way, but not really.
>>>>
>>>>Switches are a "generation" better.  Hubs and
>>>>switches, on their most basic level perform the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>same function.  They
>>>
>>>
>>>>distribute network traffic.  But HOW they
>>>>
>>>>
>>>distribute that traffic is
>>>
>>>
>>>>fundimentally different.
>>>>
>>>>Unless they're one of the newer layer 3 or layer
>>>>
>>>>
>>4 switches, they
>>
>>
>>>>cannot perform routing functions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>They
>>>
>>>
>>>>just hand packets off from point A to point B.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Think
>>>
>>>
>>>>of them as sort of a postman.  They have an
>>>>
>>>>
>>>address
>>>
>>>
>>>>for each device on the network and they hand off
>>>>
>>>>
>>>each
>>>
>>>
>>>>piece of mail to the appropriate address.  A
>>>>
>>>>
>>hub,
>>
>>
>>>>using this sama analagy would deliver the same
>>>>
>>>>
>>>piece
>>>
>>>
>>>>of mail to every house and the one that it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>belonged to
>>>
>>>
>>>>would be the one that actually reads it.
>>>>
>>>>--- Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
>>>>
>>>>
>><bchacc at san.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>"but it's as close as I could think of without
>>>>>getting too technical."
>>>>>
>>>>>Thank you.  Much appreciated.  So a switch is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>like
>>>
>>>
>>>>>halfway between a hub and
>>>>>a router?
>>>>>
>>>>>Rocky
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>>>solving"
>>>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 7:36 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>(sort
>>>
>>>
>>>>>of)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>A router and a switch are fundimentall
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>different
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A router does just that.  It routes network
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>traffic.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>A switch plays "traffic cop" for a network.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Newer switches, especially the layer 3 and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>layer 4
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>ones can perform both functions.This isn't
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>an
>>
>>
>>>>>exact
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>definition, but it's as close as I could
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>think
>>
>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>without getting too technical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--- Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>><bchacc at san.rr.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is there a difference between a switch and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>a
>>
>>
>>>>>router?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Rocky
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>problem
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>solving"
>>>>>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 6:54 AM
>>>>>>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>network
>>
>>
>>>>>(sort
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>of)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I recommend "hardwiring" the IP address
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>of
>>
>>
>>>any
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>device
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>or server connected to your LAN that's
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>not
>>
>>
>>>a workstation and
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>is virtually always on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>For the price, I would also highly
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>recommend
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>removing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>all hubs from your network and using
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>them
>>
>>
>>>as doorstops.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>Switches have come way down in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>price
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>have many benifits over hubs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hubs divide the bandwidth across all
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>ports.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Thus
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>if
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>you have an 8-port 10-BaseT hub, all
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>ports
>>
>>
>>>>>that
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>processing data split that 10Mbit.  A
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>=== message truncated ===
>
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com 
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com 
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com 
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com 
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>


--
-Francisco


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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________
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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



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From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Tue Nov  4 01:15:13 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:15:13 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF6DBC@stekelbes.ithelps.local>

Hi Tom

As I understand you have 1 fileserver BUT you have multiple netwerk (IP
fed) printer.
So you meet the requiry of having multiple servers/hosts.

Don't forget a networkprinter (with own NIC and IP) is a host to!!!
A switch will certanly help your situation.
Only one thing to watch out for...
That your clients do indeed print directly to the printer and the
printjobs are not spooled on the server (wich can be the case).

In either case I would advice you a switch with x number of 100Mb port
and 1 or 2 1Gb links. Ofcourse you connect the 1Gb links to the server.

If your server does not have 1Gb links, buy the switch anyway, as soon
as you notice performance drops you can decide to install a 1Gb NIC.
I would do it any way. The prices of 1Gb are really down. HP servers are
now standard equipped with 1 or 2 Gb nics.

Please take a with with 24 ports or a moduar system.

Connecting two switches to eachother witout a special cascade interface
you will need to connect them with 100mb or 1Gb posibly creating a
bottleneck again between the two of them.


Erwin



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens Tom Keatley
Verzonden: maandag 3 november 2003 0:19
Aan: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Onderwerp: Re: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


Jeeeez....
...It seems this thread is going to go on forever
...its starting to become like a MAC Vs PC argument.

I run an internal network of about 15 computers and 12 (IP fed) printers
based on 100 Mbs HUBS in a (mainly)Win2000Pro network ...we currently
have a 16 port Netgear and a number of 8 ports to acheive the
connections. I have Access front ends on most of the computers with a
single backend (interestingly enough called BACKEND) this is a 2.8Ghz
Intel with 512 megs of memory

At certain times of the month (as printing is our business) we can have
literally THOUSANDS of small 1 to 2 Mb print files spooling to the
printers and running around the network.

As the network has grown over the last few years I have noticed a steady
DECREASE in speed and performance and an INCREASE in corrupt print files
....when I say corrupt I mean that the file will arrive at the computer
it is spooling to and we will get an error saying that the file FAILED
to print... I have always put this down to the file somehow being
corrupted within the network....It always seems to retry itself and
ultimately DOES print.

My supplier has suggested moving my HUBS to SWITCHES and I currently
have on loan from him a PLANET NOVA 16 port 100Mbs SWITCH (although I
havent yet installed it) .

On the strength of what you guys have been talking about I am thinking
that I should "Bite The Bullet" and go straight to a GIGA network switch
and bypass the 100Mbs switch altogether...The prices have dropped
substantially on these recently and utimately I will probably need to do
this anyway...

At the risk of starting a war could I call for opinions on this...

Regards

Tom Keatley






OK, it's me again.

I still stand with my remarks. I'm implemented a lot of switch several
years ago and am very much aware how layer 2 and 3 switches work. Layer
4 don't know. Not in to that business anymore. As I already commented it
is wrong to say that switches will always will improve your bandwith. A
switch will only be able to do his thing when some condtions are true.
These coditions are most of the time present but not always.

But generaly you could conclude a switch will have network performance
effect when
1) 2 servers/hosts or more with each his own direct link to the switch
2) When having only one server the server link bandwith MUST be higher
than the (single) client bandwith.


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Tue Nov  4 01:20:15 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:20:15 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF71FF@stekelbes.ithelps.local>

Pay also attetion if the ports are ALL full-duplex.
A lot of cheaper equipment is 100Mb but not always full-duplex.

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens Erwin Craps
Verzonden: dinsdag 4 november 2003 8:15
Aan: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Onderwerp: RE: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


Hi Tom

As I understand you have 1 fileserver BUT you have multiple netwerk (IP
fed) printer.
So you meet the requiry of having multiple servers/hosts.

Don't forget a networkprinter (with own NIC and IP) is a host to!!! A
switch will certanly help your situation. Only one thing to watch out
for... That your clients do indeed print directly to the printer and the
printjobs are not spooled on the server (wich can be the case).

In either case I would advice you a switch with x number of 100Mb port
and 1 or 2 1Gb links. Ofcourse you connect the 1Gb links to the server.

If your server does not have 1Gb links, buy the switch anyway, as soon
as you notice performance drops you can decide to install a 1Gb NIC. I
would do it any way. The prices of 1Gb are really down. HP servers are
now standard equipped with 1 or 2 Gb nics.

Please take a with with 24 ports or a moduar system.

Connecting two switches to eachother witout a special cascade interface
you will need to connect them with 100mb or 1Gb posibly creating a
bottleneck again between the two of them.


Erwin



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens Tom Keatley
Verzonden: maandag 3 november 2003 0:19
Aan: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Onderwerp: Re: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


Jeeeez....
...It seems this thread is going to go on forever
...its starting to become like a MAC Vs PC argument.

I run an internal network of about 15 computers and 12 (IP fed) printers
based on 100 Mbs HUBS in a (mainly)Win2000Pro network ...we currently
have a 16 port Netgear and a number of 8 ports to acheive the
connections. I have Access front ends on most of the computers with a
single backend (interestingly enough called BACKEND) this is a 2.8Ghz
Intel with 512 megs of memory

At certain times of the month (as printing is our business) we can have
literally THOUSANDS of small 1 to 2 Mb print files spooling to the
printers and running around the network.

As the network has grown over the last few years I have noticed a steady
DECREASE in speed and performance and an INCREASE in corrupt print files
....when I say corrupt I mean that the file will arrive at the computer
it is spooling to and we will get an error saying that the file FAILED
to print... I have always put this down to the file somehow being
corrupted within the network....It always seems to retry itself and
ultimately DOES print.

My supplier has suggested moving my HUBS to SWITCHES and I currently
have on loan from him a PLANET NOVA 16 port 100Mbs SWITCH (although I
havent yet installed it) .

On the strength of what you guys have been talking about I am thinking
that I should "Bite The Bullet" and go straight to a GIGA network switch
and bypass the 100Mbs switch altogether...The prices have dropped
substantially on these recently and utimately I will probably need to do
this anyway...

At the risk of starting a war could I call for opinions on this...

Regards

Tom Keatley






OK, it's me again.

I still stand with my remarks. I'm implemented a lot of switch several
years ago and am very much aware how layer 2 and 3 switches work. Layer
4 don't know. Not in to that business anymore. As I already commented it
is wrong to say that switches will always will improve your bandwith. A
switch will only be able to do his thing when some condtions are true.
These coditions are most of the time present but not always.

But generaly you could conclude a switch will have network performance
effect when
1) 2 servers/hosts or more with each his own direct link to the switch
2) When having only one server the server link bandwith MUST be higher
than the (single) client bandwith.


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Tue Nov  4 01:28:11 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:28:11 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Wireless security
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF6DBD@stekelbes.ithelps.local>

Hi John

Only did it once and turned it now of because my box resets each time
with some heavy trafic. Seems to be a common problem with my box.

Basicly you would need to enter a WEP shared key in to your router.
WEP encypion is build in the driver of your card or os.
When connectiog it will refuse because it does not have the shared key.
I supose at that moment you can enter the shared key. 
>From then on your data is encrypted.

Please not that encryption will decrease the connection speed for real
data, depending on the brand/box.

But it is indeed so that if you do not encrypt a protocol analyser can
read any data. 
But that is also true for every LAN, WAN and Internet.
Ofcourse wireless is a bit easier to to connect to because you don't
need to tap in to a cable...

Erwin


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens John Colby
Verzonden: dinsdag 4 november 2003 1:57
Aan: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Onderwerp: [dba-Tech] Wireless security


OK, so now that we have all the exspurts here, let's have a discussion
on wireless security.  I just got my wireless network up and running.  I
think I have tightened things up a little bit by not broadcasting my
SSID and limiting access to a single MAC address, the card in my laptop.
The issue though is that AFAIK the data still is being broadcast in the
clear.

I was reading an article where using a new program just released, a
hacker could sit and monitor all traffic out of a computer without ever
having to transmit anything.  Just listen.  Doing so allows them to
eventually (and it only takes a matter of hours) crack the WEP
encryption, and WEP is all that the wireless router I am using provides.

The question then is, can Win2K Pro transmit / receive ALL network
traffic encrypted using more secure built-in encryption stuff?  Is
anyone doing this?

Also, even though WEP is less that secure, the recommendation is still
to use it since it keeps the script kiddies at bay.  But I haven't
figured even that much out.  My wifi router and notebook card are by
different companies and don't use the same terms etc in their software.
Is there anyone on this list familiar enough with that stuff to assist
me in getting WEP encryption turned on?

TIA

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com


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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From andy at minstersystems.co.uk  Tue Nov  4 01:40:01 2003
From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:40:01 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
In-Reply-To: <3FA6A36B.11456.287CD3@localhost>
Message-ID: <00b101c3a2a6$db504e90$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>

I know they already have the 97 version Bryan. The point is whether the
newer versions are significantly better, more flexible, easier to use,
smarter etc. The investment in time and training will significant so we
want to choose right. Also there's an issue of credibility. If my
customer stands in front of his customer with a powerpoint demo in 97
will his customer see any difference (can be bad) and will he be missing
a trick in trying to impress?

Andy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of 
> Bryan Carbonnell
> Sent: 03 November 2003 23:50
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
> 
> 
> On 3 Nov 2003 at 20:31, Andy Lacey wrote:
> 
> > The situation is that no-one at the customer has used it at 
> all, and 
> > I'm a novice myself. So now they feel the need, which is going to 
> > involve purchasing copies (only have Office 97 so it's 
> going to cost 
> > to get later versions), training courses, books etc, and 
> the question 
> > I'm asked is "Which version shall we invest in?"
> 
> If all they have is O97, then you/they have already invested in 
> PPT97, so why bother looking anywhere else?
> 
> If they haven't used it before, then they won't need any of the new 
> features. :-)
> 
> Use the K.I.S.S. principle.
> 
> Keep It Simple Son
> 
> About the only thing that springs to mind on the improvements is in 
> PPT2K and PPT XP there is more support for various animations in the 
> slides, as well as animated graphics formats IIRC.
> 
> That's all that I can recall being significantly different. Or 
> atleast that's what the instructors I work with have mentioned.
> 
> --
> Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
> Stupid questions are better than stupid mistakes. - Japanese proverb
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/d> ba-tech
> 
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 



From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk  Tue Nov  4 03:01:05 2003
From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:01:05 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
References: <008501c3a249$81cbb830$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>
Message-ID: <00b601c3a2b2$2e577db0$9111758f@aine>

Andy

I can let you have our training materials if you want.

Martin



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andy Lacey" <andy at minstersystems.co.uk>
To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question


> The situation is that no-one at the customer has used it at all, and I'm
> a novice myself. So now they feel the need, which is going to involve
> purchasing copies (only have Office 97 so it's going to cost to get
> later versions), training courses, books etc, and the question I'm asked
> is "Which version shall we invest in?"
>
> Andy Lacey
> http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> > Martin Reid
> > Sent: 03 November 2003 19:22
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
> >
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > Depend what you want to do. I found for your bog standard
> > presentation theres little difference. We recently moved to
> > XP so not much to say yet but I have taken intro courses and
> > further powerpoint courses in the University and the only
> > thing I have changed in the manuals is the screen dumps.
> >
> > Depends what you need to so with it???
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Andy Lacey" <andy at minstersystems.co.uk>
> > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'"
> > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>; <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:11 AM
> > Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
> >
> >
> > > This is first trial of new policy. I'm cross-posting to
> > AccesD and the
> > > Tech list but please reply ONLY to the the tech list as
> > this is no way
> > > Access-related - I just need guidance.
> > >
> > > Are there any Powerpoint experts out there? If so can
> > someone tell me
> > > what, if any, are the main pros and cons of the Office 97,
> > 2000 and XP
> > > versions of Powerpoint? And which is the best, and why?
> > I've read the
> > > MS docs on this but am interested in "real" experience.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for any help. And if you're not yet on
> > the tech list
> > > you can subscribe via
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > >
> > > Andy Lacey
> > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/d> ba-tech
> >
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From andy at minstersystems.co.uk  Tue Nov  4 02:44:45 2003
From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 9:44:45 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
Message-ID: <20031104094442.C3DE224CE74@smithers.nildram.co.uk>

Hi Martin
We're going with PP2002. If you have materials for that I'd love them. Yes
please!!!

--
Andy Lacey
http://www.minstersystems.co.uk




--------- Original Message --------
From: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
Date: 04/11/03 09:01


Andy

I can let you have our training materials if you want.

Martin



----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Lacey" <andy at minstersystems.co.uk>
To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question


> The situation is that no-one at the customer has used it at all, and I'm
> a novice myself. So now they feel the need, which is going to involve
> purchasing copies (only have Office 97 so it's going to cost to get
> later versions), training courses, books etc, and the question I'm asked
> is "Which version shall we invest in?"
>
> Andy Lacey
> http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> > Martin Reid
> > Sent: 03 November 2003 19:22
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
> >
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > Depend what you want to do. I found for your bog standard
> > presentation theres little difference. We recently moved to
> > XP so not much to say yet but I have taken intro courses and
> > further powerpoint courses in the University and the only
> > thing I have changed in the manuals is the screen dumps.
> >
> > Depends what you need to so with it???
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Andy Lacey" <andy at minstersystems.co.uk>
> > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'"
> > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>; <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:11 AM
> > Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
> >
> >
> > > This is first trial of new policy. I'm cross-posting to
> > AccesD and the
> > > Tech list but please reply ONLY to the the tech list as
> > this is no way
> > > Access-related - I just need guidance.
> > >
> > > Are there any Powerpoint experts out there? If so can
> > someone tell me
> > > what, if any, are the main pros and cons of the Office 97,
> > 2000 and XP
> > > versions of Powerpoint? And which is the best, and why?
> > I've read the
> > > MS docs on this but am interested in "real" experience.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for any help. And if you're not yet on
> > the tech list
> > > you can subscribe via
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > >
> > > Andy Lacey
> > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/d> ba-tech
> >
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
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From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Tue Nov  4 07:26:36 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John Colby)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:26:36 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)
In-Reply-To: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF71FD@stekelbes.ithelps.local>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPIECOFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

Erwin,

A collision is when one computer is transmitting and another starts
transmitting over the top of the first.  The result of a collision is that
the data is corrupted and has to be retransmitted.

This can happen in a hub because ALL computers share a single physical
electrical connection.  This simply cannot happen with a switch because the
electronics set up a unique electrical connection from computer to computer
using a cross point switch.

With an eight port switch you could under ideal circumstances have four 100
mbit conversations going on simultaneously.  There would be no collisions at
all, four perfectly completed communications.

Now obviously if a server is on one port and all the other ports want to
talk to that port then only one at a time can do so, but you still NEVER
have collisions since the electronics simply don't connect port A to port B
unless port B is not in use.

So yes, you have a bottleneck, all communications needs to go through a
single port to get to the server, but NO, true collisions (one computer
transmitting on top of and corrupting data of another computer) NEVER happen
with a switch.

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Erwin Craps
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:07 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


Thats not totaly true.

Switches prevent collisions and resends to happen on the OTHER virtual
connections.
On A point to point connection you also have collisions.
Because all trafic all goes to one link to the server that link will have
all collisions to, thus taking bandwith of others connections.
Simply because you have a single bottleneck.

Erwin

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens John Colby
Verzonden: maandag 3 november 2003 23:33
Aan: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Onderwerp: RE: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


Erwin,

But none of that takes into account collisions and retransmissions due to
collisions.  Hubs have that to deal with, switches don't.

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Erwin Craps
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 5:21 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


OK, it's me again.

I still stand with my remarks. I'm implemented a lot of switch several years
ago and am very much aware how layer 2 and 3 switches work. Layer 4 don't
know. Not in to that business anymore. As I already commented it is wrong to
say that switches will always will improve your bandwith. A switch will only
be able to do his thing when some condtions are true. These coditions are
most of the time present but not always.

But generaly you could conclude a switch will have network performance
effect when
1) 2 servers/hosts or more with each his own direct link to the switch
2) When having only one server the server link bandwith MUST be higher than
the (single) client bandwith.

It all turns about the slowest link principle. With a switch you create
dynamic virtual connections. The slowest link at that time will decide the
bandwith for that connection.

Small example.
You have:
1x client A at 100Mbps
1x client B at 100Mbps
1x x-port switch all 100Mbps
1x server S at 100Mbps

Both clients starts sending large data to the server at maximum speed (let's
say each 100Mbps to make an easy calc).
Question: What will be the maximum network bandwith obtained to the server?
A) 100Mbps
B) 200Mbps
C) 300Mbps

Right, a) 100 Mbps, why? Because the server has only one 100Mbps link. Will
this go faster than a hub. No. Infact, a switch has to make a decision based
on MAC or IP address and this takes time. So, I would like to believe it
will be slightly slower than a hub...

If a was talking about speed in my previous mails I could have mixed speed
and bandwith. You have the network speed (should be bandwith), and you have
speed (or
performance) of the switch.
Speed of a switch is the delay (lack of) and the quantity of ethernet
packets it can manipulate per second.

I remember me some figures (delay times) but I supose they will be much
lower now. A router takes about 600 to 800?sec to make a decision (and
change) to forward a packet to a port based on IP or other layer 3 routable
protocol. A switch took (in 1996 or so) around 180?sec based on Mac. A hub
none... Because it doesn't take a look inside the pakket.. It justs repeats
stupidly. A hub is nothing more than a stupid (bon-intelligent but
active) repeater.

So if you wanna see bandwith improvement on a single server network you must
have a 1Gb connection to the server (thats what I would suggest) or use dual
link between server and switch. Both server and switch must support dual
links (teamed links?). By this you would have 200Mb between server and
switch and you could now have 2 clients running at full speed (100Mb). I'm
not sure about this dual link if both are full duplex, maybe it depends on
the brand but I believe I read somewhere that with a dual link you have
100Mb upstream and 100mb downstream. Which would result that when both
clients are sending they only would have 50 Mb each. If one would send other
receive they would have each 100Mbps.

This is the theoricatal best situation because, if you don't have a heavely
loaded network, you will have more bandwith, but not used. It's like having
a east-west coast pipeline and you only send a drop of water trough it...
The switch is of no use due to lack of trafic. You would better put your
money in a good server or applications or new pc's...

But hey, don't get me wrong. I'm 100% pro switches. If you are having doubts
for buying a switch or a hub, buy a switch. You gonna need it someday.
Prices are down, but I'm not that sure if performance of those cheap  ones
are good.

But don't say switches will always improve speed. It really depends on your
network configuration.

Erwin





-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H
Tapia
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:11 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues; jimdettman at earthlink.net
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


Jim,
 I'm replying to the dba-tech list as that is the proper list for this topic
:).  On that note, some of your more recent Switches also come w/ somthing
called spanning trees.

Jim Dettman wrote:

>Drew/Erwin,
>
>  One minor correction.  Switches don't use NAT tables.  They use MAC
>Address lists and ARP tables.  NAT is something done only in a router.
>
>Jim Dettman
>President,
>Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc.
>(315) 699-3443
>jimdettman at earthlink.net
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:59 AM
>To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>
>
>Read Erwins post a little while ago, was waiting for your's before I
>replied! <grin>
>
>Erwin, switches also use NAT tables.  Because of this, they don't have
>to broadcast everything in all directions.  They're 'smart', when a
>packet comes in, they can properly direct it.  The downside to the NAT
>tables is that if you blow the NAT table away, it has to be rebuilt, so
>sometimes on an initial powerup, a switch may seem slower, which is
>simply the time it is using to build the NAT tables.
>
>Drew
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Frank Tanner III [mailto:pctech at mybellybutton.com]
>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:35 AM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>
>
>And they improve speed.
>
>Because they do not SHARE the bandwidth amongst the
>ports.  A 10-BaseT hub SHARES that speed amongst the
>available ports.  This dividing the individual
>bandwidth per port.
>
>A switch allocates all available bandwidth on a PER
>PORT basis.
>
>Maybe you need to learn what you are talking about
>before you give out false information.
>
>--- Erwin Craps <Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be> wrote:
>
>
>>And to be correct, switches don't improve speed
>>(compared to hub's) they
>>improve bandwith and reduce collisions!!!
>>Switches create virtual point to point connections.
>>
>>Switches do improve speed compared to routers.
>>
>>Erwin
>>
>>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens
>>Frank Tanner III
>>Verzonden: zaterdag 1 november 2003 16:23
>>Aan: Access Developers discussion and problem
>>solving
>>Onderwerp: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>of)
>>
>>
>>Switches will ALWAYS improve your speed over hubs.
>>Period.
>>
>>Hubs SHARE the same bandwidth on all ports.
>>Switches
>>allocate the max bandwidth per port.
>>
>>You are incorrect.
>>
>>--- Erwin Craps <Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>But switches have no sense in a 1 server
>>>
>>>
>>environment
>>
>>
>>>because all of the
>>>trafic goes and comes from one point.
>>>Unless your clients are 100Mb and the uplink to
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>server is 1Gb.
>>>
>>>People often believe switches will improve their
>>>network speed, but that
>>>is not always the case.
>>>But indeed the prices of the switches have dropped
>>>that you buy a switch
>>>at the price of a good hub these days.
>>>
>>>Erwin
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On
>>>Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
>>>- Beach Access Software
>>>Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 1:55 AM
>>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>
>>>
>>solving
>>
>>
>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>>of)
>>>
>>>
>>>Got it. I think.  Switch can route packet based on
>>>IP address but can't
>>>generate an IP address.  Yes?
>>>
>>>Rocky
>>>
>>>
>>>Rocky
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>
>>>
>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>
>>
>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>solving"
>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 10:29 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>>of)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>It is sort of half-way, but not really.
>>>>
>>>>Switches are a "generation" better.  Hubs and
>>>>switches, on their most basic level perform the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>same function.  They
>>>
>>>
>>>>distribute network traffic.  But HOW they
>>>>
>>>>
>>>distribute that traffic is
>>>
>>>
>>>>fundimentally different.
>>>>
>>>>Unless they're one of the newer layer 3 or layer
>>>>
>>>>
>>4 switches, they
>>
>>
>>>>cannot perform routing functions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>They
>>>
>>>
>>>>just hand packets off from point A to point B.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Think
>>>
>>>
>>>>of them as sort of a postman.  They have an
>>>>
>>>>
>>>address
>>>
>>>
>>>>for each device on the network and they hand off
>>>>
>>>>
>>>each
>>>
>>>
>>>>piece of mail to the appropriate address.  A
>>>>
>>>>
>>hub,
>>
>>
>>>>using this sama analagy would deliver the same
>>>>
>>>>
>>>piece
>>>
>>>
>>>>of mail to every house and the one that it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>belonged to
>>>
>>>
>>>>would be the one that actually reads it.
>>>>
>>>>--- Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
>>>>
>>>>
>><bchacc at san.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>"but it's as close as I could think of without
>>>>>getting too technical."
>>>>>
>>>>>Thank you.  Much appreciated.  So a switch is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>like
>>>
>>>
>>>>>halfway between a hub and
>>>>>a router?
>>>>>
>>>>>Rocky
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>>>solving"
>>>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 7:36 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>(sort
>>>
>>>
>>>>>of)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>A router and a switch are fundimentall
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>different
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A router does just that.  It routes network
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>traffic.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>A switch plays "traffic cop" for a network.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Newer switches, especially the layer 3 and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>layer 4
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>ones can perform both functions.This isn't
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>an
>>
>>
>>>>>exact
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>definition, but it's as close as I could
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>think
>>
>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>without getting too technical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--- Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>><bchacc at san.rr.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is there a difference between a switch and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>a
>>
>>
>>>>>router?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Rocky
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>problem
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>solving"
>>>>>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 6:54 AM
>>>>>>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>network
>>
>>
>>>>>(sort
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>of)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I recommend "hardwiring" the IP address
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>of
>>
>>
>>>any
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>device
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>or server connected to your LAN that's
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>not
>>
>>
>>>a workstation and
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>is virtually always on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>For the price, I would also highly
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>recommend
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>removing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>all hubs from your network and using
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>them
>>
>>
>>>as doorstops.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>Switches have come way down in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>price
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>have many benifits over hubs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hubs divide the bandwidth across all
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>ports.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Thus
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>if
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>you have an 8-port 10-BaseT hub, all
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>ports
>>
>>
>>>>>that
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>processing data split that 10Mbit.  A
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>=== message truncated ===
>
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>


--
-Francisco


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From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Tue Nov  4 10:47:53 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:47:53 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF6DBE@stekelbes.ithelps.local>


Well John, you are making me doubt if a today switch can solve this, but you can have collisions between two computers because multiple IP services run simulteaniously.
For example a server can transmit an UDP broadcast while a client sends a TCP packet.
They would collide.
I supose a switch could buffer packets but I wonder if that so simply allowed. And again, the switch would then posibly collide with the server/client.
Ofcourse it is minimising the collsions 
If the switch would refuse to open the connection the client would need to transmit the packet again, so that would not solve anything.

I suspect this is what Layer 4 switching is for, I'm not familiar with layer 4 switching.
I dont believe they could pull that off on layer 3.
If it is posible it will be probably only for TCP. But I'm only speculating.
My switch kno-how is not that up-to-date anymore.

I'll try to catch up when I have the opportunity.


Erwin



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens John Colby
Verzonden: dinsdag 4 november 2003 14:27
Aan: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Onderwerp: RE: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


Erwin,

A collision is when one computer is transmitting and another starts transmitting over the top of the first.  The result of a collision is that the data is corrupted and has to be retransmitted.

This can happen in a hub because ALL computers share a single physical electrical connection.  This simply cannot happen with a switch because the electronics set up a unique electrical connection from computer to computer using a cross point switch.

With an eight port switch you could under ideal circumstances have four 100 mbit conversations going on simultaneously.  There would be no collisions at all, four perfectly completed communications.

Now obviously if a server is on one port and all the other ports want to talk to that port then only one at a time can do so, but you still NEVER have collisions since the electronics simply don't connect port A to port B unless port B is not in use.

So yes, you have a bottleneck, all communications needs to go through a single port to get to the server, but NO, true collisions (one computer transmitting on top of and corrupting data of another computer) NEVER happen with a switch.

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Erwin Craps
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:07 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


Thats not totaly true.

Switches prevent collisions and resends to happen on the OTHER virtual connections. On A point to point connection you also have collisions. Because all trafic all goes to one link to the server that link will have all collisions to, thus taking bandwith of others connections. Simply because you have a single bottleneck.

Erwin

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens John Colby
Verzonden: maandag 3 november 2003 23:33
Aan: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Onderwerp: RE: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


Erwin,

But none of that takes into account collisions and retransmissions due to collisions.  Hubs have that to deal with, switches don't.

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Erwin Craps
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 5:21 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


OK, it's me again.

I still stand with my remarks. I'm implemented a lot of switch several years ago and am very much aware how layer 2 and 3 switches work. Layer 4 don't know. Not in to that business anymore. As I already commented it is wrong to say that switches will always will improve your bandwith. A switch will only be able to do his thing when some condtions are true. These coditions are most of the time present but not always.

But generaly you could conclude a switch will have network performance effect when
1) 2 servers/hosts or more with each his own direct link to the switch
2) When having only one server the server link bandwith MUST be higher than the (single) client bandwith.

It all turns about the slowest link principle. With a switch you create dynamic virtual connections. The slowest link at that time will decide the bandwith for that connection.

Small example.
You have:
1x client A at 100Mbps
1x client B at 100Mbps
1x x-port switch all 100Mbps
1x server S at 100Mbps

Both clients starts sending large data to the server at maximum speed (let's say each 100Mbps to make an easy calc).
Question: What will be the maximum network bandwith obtained to the server?
A) 100Mbps
B) 200Mbps
C) 300Mbps

Right, a) 100 Mbps, why? Because the server has only one 100Mbps link. Will this go faster than a hub. No. Infact, a switch has to make a decision based on MAC or IP address and this takes time. So, I would like to believe it will be slightly slower than a hub...

If a was talking about speed in my previous mails I could have mixed speed and bandwith. You have the network speed (should be bandwith), and you have speed (or
performance) of the switch.
Speed of a switch is the delay (lack of) and the quantity of ethernet packets it can manipulate per second.

I remember me some figures (delay times) but I supose they will be much lower now. A router takes about 600 to 800?sec to make a decision (and
change) to forward a packet to a port based on IP or other layer 3 routable protocol. A switch took (in 1996 or so) around 180?sec based on Mac. A hub none... Because it doesn't take a look inside the pakket.. It justs repeats stupidly. A hub is nothing more than a stupid (bon-intelligent but
active) repeater.

So if you wanna see bandwith improvement on a single server network you must have a 1Gb connection to the server (thats what I would suggest) or use dual link between server and switch. Both server and switch must support dual links (teamed links?). By this you would have 200Mb between server and switch and you could now have 2 clients running at full speed (100Mb). I'm not sure about this dual link if both are full duplex, maybe it depends on the brand but I believe I read somewhere that with a dual link you have 100Mb upstream and 100mb downstream. Which would result that when both clients are sending they only would have 50 Mb each. If one would send other receive they would have each 100Mbps.

This is the theoricatal best situation because, if you don't have a heavely loaded network, you will have more bandwith, but not used. It's like having a east-west coast pipeline and you only send a drop of water trough it... The switch is of no use due to lack of trafic. You would better put your money in a good server or applications or new pc's...

But hey, don't get me wrong. I'm 100% pro switches. If you are having doubts for buying a switch or a hub, buy a switch. You gonna need it someday. Prices are down, but I'm not that sure if performance of those cheap  ones are good.

But don't say switches will always improve speed. It really depends on your network configuration.

Erwin





-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:11 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues; jimdettman at earthlink.net
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)


Jim,
 I'm replying to the dba-tech list as that is the proper list for this topic :).  On that note, some of your more recent Switches also come w/ somthing called spanning trees.

Jim Dettman wrote:

>Drew/Erwin,
>
>  One minor correction.  Switches don't use NAT tables.  They use MAC 
>Address lists and ARP tables.  NAT is something done only in a router.
>
>Jim Dettman
>President,
>Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc.
>(315) 699-3443
>jimdettman at earthlink.net
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:59 AM
>To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>
>
>Read Erwins post a little while ago, was waiting for your's before I 
>replied! <grin>
>
>Erwin, switches also use NAT tables.  Because of this, they don't have 
>to broadcast everything in all directions.  They're 'smart', when a 
>packet comes in, they can properly direct it.  The downside to the NAT 
>tables is that if you blow the NAT table away, it has to be rebuilt, so 
>sometimes on an initial powerup, a switch may seem slower, which is 
>simply the time it is using to build the NAT tables.
>
>Drew
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Frank Tanner III [mailto:pctech at mybellybutton.com]
>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:35 AM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>
>
>And they improve speed.
>
>Because they do not SHARE the bandwidth amongst the
>ports.  A 10-BaseT hub SHARES that speed amongst the
>available ports.  This dividing the individual
>bandwidth per port.
>
>A switch allocates all available bandwidth on a PER
>PORT basis.
>
>Maybe you need to learn what you are talking about
>before you give out false information.
>
>--- Erwin Craps <Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be> wrote:
>
>
>>And to be correct, switches don't improve speed
>>(compared to hub's) they
>>improve bandwith and reduce collisions!!!
>>Switches create virtual point to point connections.
>>
>>Switches do improve speed compared to routers.
>>
>>Erwin
>>
>>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens
>>Frank Tanner III
>>Verzonden: zaterdag 1 november 2003 16:23
>>Aan: Access Developers discussion and problem
>>solving
>>Onderwerp: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>of)
>>
>>
>>Switches will ALWAYS improve your speed over hubs.
>>Period.
>>
>>Hubs SHARE the same bandwidth on all ports.
>>Switches
>>allocate the max bandwidth per port.
>>
>>You are incorrect.
>>
>>--- Erwin Craps <Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>But switches have no sense in a 1 server
>>>
>>>
>>environment
>>
>>
>>>because all of the
>>>trafic goes and comes from one point.
>>>Unless your clients are 100Mb and the uplink to
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>server is 1Gb.
>>>
>>>People often believe switches will improve their
>>>network speed, but that
>>>is not always the case.
>>>But indeed the prices of the switches have dropped
>>>that you buy a switch
>>>at the price of a good hub these days.
>>>
>>>Erwin
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On
>>>Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
>>>- Beach Access Software
>>>Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 1:55 AM
>>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>
>>>
>>solving
>>
>>
>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>>of)
>>>
>>>
>>>Got it. I think.  Switch can route packet based on
>>>IP address but can't
>>>generate an IP address.  Yes?
>>>
>>>Rocky
>>>
>>>
>>>Rocky
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>
>>>
>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>
>>
>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>solving"
>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 10:29 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>>of)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>It is sort of half-way, but not really.
>>>>
>>>>Switches are a "generation" better.  Hubs and
>>>>switches, on their most basic level perform the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>same function.  They
>>>
>>>
>>>>distribute network traffic.  But HOW they
>>>>
>>>>
>>>distribute that traffic is
>>>
>>>
>>>>fundimentally different.
>>>>
>>>>Unless they're one of the newer layer 3 or layer
>>>>
>>>>
>>4 switches, they
>>
>>
>>>>cannot perform routing functions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>They
>>>
>>>
>>>>just hand packets off from point A to point B.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Think
>>>
>>>
>>>>of them as sort of a postman.  They have an
>>>>
>>>>
>>>address
>>>
>>>
>>>>for each device on the network and they hand off
>>>>
>>>>
>>>each
>>>
>>>
>>>>piece of mail to the appropriate address.  A
>>>>
>>>>
>>hub,
>>
>>
>>>>using this sama analagy would deliver the same
>>>>
>>>>
>>>piece
>>>
>>>
>>>>of mail to every house and the one that it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>belonged to
>>>
>>>
>>>>would be the one that actually reads it.
>>>>
>>>>--- Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
>>>>
>>>>
>><bchacc at san.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>"but it's as close as I could think of without
>>>>>getting too technical."
>>>>>
>>>>>Thank you.  Much appreciated.  So a switch is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>like
>>>
>>>
>>>>>halfway between a hub and
>>>>>a router?
>>>>>
>>>>>Rocky
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>>>solving"
>>>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 7:36 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>(sort
>>>
>>>
>>>>>of)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>A router and a switch are fundimentall
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>different
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A router does just that.  It routes network
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>traffic.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>A switch plays "traffic cop" for a network.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Newer switches, especially the layer 3 and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>layer 4
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>ones can perform both functions.This isn't
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>an
>>
>>
>>>>>exact
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>definition, but it's as close as I could
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>think
>>
>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>without getting too technical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--- Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>><bchacc at san.rr.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is there a difference between a switch and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>a
>>
>>
>>>>>router?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Rocky
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>problem
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>solving"
>>>>>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 6:54 AM
>>>>>>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>network
>>
>>
>>>>>(sort
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>of)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I recommend "hardwiring" the IP address
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>of
>>
>>
>>>any
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>device
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>or server connected to your LAN that's
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>not
>>
>>
>>>a workstation and
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>is virtually always on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>For the price, I would also highly
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>recommend
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>removing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>all hubs from your network and using
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>them
>>
>>
>>>as doorstops.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>Switches have come way down in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>price
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>have many benifits over hubs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hubs divide the bandwidth across all
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>ports.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Thus
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>if
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>you have an 8-port 10-BaseT hub, all
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>ports
>>
>>
>>>>>that
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>processing data split that 10Mbit.  A
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>=== message truncated ===
>
>_______________________________________________
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>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com 
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com 
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com 
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com 
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>


--
-Francisco


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From my.lists at verizon.net  Tue Nov  4 12:25:20 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:25:20 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPIECOFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPIECOFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <3FA7EF10.5010005@verizon.net>

Would it be helpful to add a 2nd Nic and bind all print job request 
trough it, and leave the original nic for standard file server access?  
I don't know how to do this, but I can only imagine that it could be 
done.  throw a Switch in there in place of the hub and you've updated 
your network w/ 1 nic + the number of switches required.

John Colby wrote:

>Erwin,
>
>A collision is when one computer is transmitting and another starts
>transmitting over the top of the first.  The result of a collision is that
>the data is corrupted and has to be retransmitted.
>
>This can happen in a hub because ALL computers share a single physical
>electrical connection.  This simply cannot happen with a switch because the
>electronics set up a unique electrical connection from computer to computer
>using a cross point switch.
>
>With an eight port switch you could under ideal circumstances have four 100
>mbit conversations going on simultaneously.  There would be no collisions at
>all, four perfectly completed communications.
>
>Now obviously if a server is on one port and all the other ports want to
>talk to that port then only one at a time can do so, but you still NEVER
>have collisions since the electronics simply don't connect port A to port B
>unless port B is not in use.
>
>So yes, you have a bottleneck, all communications needs to go through a
>single port to get to the server, but NO, true collisions (one computer
>transmitting on top of and corrupting data of another computer) NEVER happen
>with a switch.
>
>John W. Colby
>www.colbyconsulting.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Erwin Craps
>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:07 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)
>
>
>Thats not totaly true.
>
>Switches prevent collisions and resends to happen on the OTHER virtual
>connections.
>On A point to point connection you also have collisions.
>Because all trafic all goes to one link to the server that link will have
>all collisions to, thus taking bandwith of others connections.
>Simply because you have a single bottleneck.
>
>Erwin
>
>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>Van: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens John Colby
>Verzonden: maandag 3 november 2003 23:33
>Aan: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Onderwerp: RE: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)
>
>
>Erwin,
>
>But none of that takes into account collisions and retransmissions due to
>collisions.  Hubs have that to deal with, switches don't.
>
>John W. Colby
>www.colbyconsulting.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Erwin Craps
>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 5:21 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)
>
>
>OK, it's me again.
>
>I still stand with my remarks. I'm implemented a lot of switch several years
>ago and am very much aware how layer 2 and 3 switches work. Layer 4 don't
>know. Not in to that business anymore. As I already commented it is wrong to
>say that switches will always will improve your bandwith. A switch will only
>be able to do his thing when some condtions are true. These coditions are
>most of the time present but not always.
>
>But generaly you could conclude a switch will have network performance
>effect when
>1) 2 servers/hosts or more with each his own direct link to the switch
>2) When having only one server the server link bandwith MUST be higher than
>the (single) client bandwith.
>
>It all turns about the slowest link principle. With a switch you create
>dynamic virtual connections. The slowest link at that time will decide the
>bandwith for that connection.
>
>Small example.
>You have:
>1x client A at 100Mbps
>1x client B at 100Mbps
>1x x-port switch all 100Mbps
>1x server S at 100Mbps
>
>Both clients starts sending large data to the server at maximum speed (let's
>say each 100Mbps to make an easy calc).
>Question: What will be the maximum network bandwith obtained to the server?
>A) 100Mbps
>B) 200Mbps
>C) 300Mbps
>
>Right, a) 100 Mbps, why? Because the server has only one 100Mbps link. Will
>this go faster than a hub. No. Infact, a switch has to make a decision based
>on MAC or IP address and this takes time. So, I would like to believe it
>will be slightly slower than a hub...
>
>If a was talking about speed in my previous mails I could have mixed speed
>and bandwith. You have the network speed (should be bandwith), and you have
>speed (or
>performance) of the switch.
>Speed of a switch is the delay (lack of) and the quantity of ethernet
>packets it can manipulate per second.
>
>I remember me some figures (delay times) but I supose they will be much
>lower now. A router takes about 600 to 800?sec to make a decision (and
>change) to forward a packet to a port based on IP or other layer 3 routable
>protocol. A switch took (in 1996 or so) around 180?sec based on Mac. A hub
>none... Because it doesn't take a look inside the pakket.. It justs repeats
>stupidly. A hub is nothing more than a stupid (bon-intelligent but
>active) repeater.
>
>So if you wanna see bandwith improvement on a single server network you must
>have a 1Gb connection to the server (thats what I would suggest) or use dual
>link between server and switch. Both server and switch must support dual
>links (teamed links?). By this you would have 200Mb between server and
>switch and you could now have 2 clients running at full speed (100Mb). I'm
>not sure about this dual link if both are full duplex, maybe it depends on
>the brand but I believe I read somewhere that with a dual link you have
>100Mb upstream and 100mb downstream. Which would result that when both
>clients are sending they only would have 50 Mb each. If one would send other
>receive they would have each 100Mbps.
>
>This is the theoricatal best situation because, if you don't have a heavely
>loaded network, you will have more bandwith, but not used. It's like having
>a east-west coast pipeline and you only send a drop of water trough it...
>The switch is of no use due to lack of trafic. You would better put your
>money in a good server or applications or new pc's...
>
>But hey, don't get me wrong. I'm 100% pro switches. If you are having doubts
>for buying a switch or a hub, buy a switch. You gonna need it someday.
>Prices are down, but I'm not that sure if performance of those cheap  ones
>are good.
>
>But don't say switches will always improve speed. It really depends on your
>network configuration.
>
>Erwin
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H
>Tapia
>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:11 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues; jimdettman at earthlink.net
>Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)
>
>
>Jim,
> I'm replying to the dba-tech list as that is the proper list for this topic
>:).  On that note, some of your more recent Switches also come w/ somthing
>called spanning trees.
>
>Jim Dettman wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Drew/Erwin,
>>
>> One minor correction.  Switches don't use NAT tables.  They use MAC
>>Address lists and ARP tables.  NAT is something done only in a router.
>>
>>Jim Dettman
>>President,
>>Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc.
>>(315) 699-3443
>>jimdettman at earthlink.net
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
>>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:59 AM
>>To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>>
>>
>>Read Erwins post a little while ago, was waiting for your's before I
>>replied! <grin>
>>
>>Erwin, switches also use NAT tables.  Because of this, they don't have
>>to broadcast everything in all directions.  They're 'smart', when a
>>packet comes in, they can properly direct it.  The downside to the NAT
>>tables is that if you blow the NAT table away, it has to be rebuilt, so
>>sometimes on an initial powerup, a switch may seem slower, which is
>>simply the time it is using to build the NAT tables.
>>
>>Drew
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Frank Tanner III [mailto:pctech at mybellybutton.com]
>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:35 AM
>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort of)
>>
>>
>>And they improve speed.
>>
>>Because they do not SHARE the bandwidth amongst the
>>ports.  A 10-BaseT hub SHARES that speed amongst the
>>available ports.  This dividing the individual
>>bandwidth per port.
>>
>>A switch allocates all available bandwidth on a PER
>>PORT basis.
>>
>>Maybe you need to learn what you are talking about
>>before you give out false information.
>>
>>--- Erwin Craps <Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be> wrote:
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>And to be correct, switches don't improve speed
>>>(compared to hub's) they
>>>improve bandwith and reduce collisions!!!
>>>Switches create virtual point to point connections.
>>>
>>>Switches do improve speed compared to routers.
>>>
>>>Erwin
>>>
>>>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>>Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens
>>>Frank Tanner III
>>>Verzonden: zaterdag 1 november 2003 16:23
>>>Aan: Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>solving
>>>Onderwerp: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>>of)
>>>
>>>
>>>Switches will ALWAYS improve your speed over hubs.
>>>Period.
>>>
>>>Hubs SHARE the same bandwidth on all ports.
>>>Switches
>>>allocate the max bandwidth per port.
>>>
>>>You are incorrect.
>>>
>>>--- Erwin Craps <Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>But switches have no sense in a 1 server
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>environment
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>because all of the
>>>>trafic goes and comes from one point.
>>>>Unless your clients are 100Mb and the uplink to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>server is 1Gb.
>>>>
>>>>People often believe switches will improve their
>>>>network speed, but that
>>>>is not always the case.
>>>>But indeed the prices of the switches have dropped
>>>>that you buy a switch
>>>>at the price of a good hub these days.
>>>>
>>>>Erwin
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On
>>>>Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
>>>>- Beach Access Software
>>>>Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 1:55 AM
>>>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>solving
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>>>of)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Got it. I think.  Switch can route packet based on
>>>>IP address but can't
>>>>generate an IP address.  Yes?
>>>>
>>>>Rocky
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Rocky
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>>solving"
>>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 10:29 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network (sort
>>>>of)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>It is sort of half-way, but not really.
>>>>>
>>>>>Switches are a "generation" better.  Hubs and
>>>>>switches, on their most basic level perform the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>same function.  They
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>distribute network traffic.  But HOW they
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>distribute that traffic is
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>fundimentally different.
>>>>>
>>>>>Unless they're one of the newer layer 3 or layer
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>4 switches, they
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>cannot perform routing functions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>They
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>just hand packets off from point A to point B.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>Think
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>of them as sort of a postman.  They have an
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>address
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>for each device on the network and they hand off
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>each
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>piece of mail to the appropriate address.  A
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>hub,
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>using this sama analagy would deliver the same
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>piece
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>of mail to every house and the one that it
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>belonged to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>would be the one that actually reads it.
>>>>>
>>>>>--- Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>><bchacc at san.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>"but it's as close as I could think of without
>>>>>>getting too technical."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thank you.  Much appreciated.  So a switch is
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>like
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>halfway between a hub and
>>>>>>a router?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Rocky
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem
>>>>>>solving"
>>>>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 7:36 AM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Wireless network
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>(sort
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>of)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>A router and a switch are fundimentall
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>different
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>things.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>A router does just that.  It routes network
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>traffic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>A switch plays "traffic cop" for a network.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Newer switches, especially the layer 3 and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>layer 4
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>ones can perform both functions.This isn't
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>an
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>exact
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>definition, but it's as close as I could
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>think
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>of
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>without getting too technical.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--- Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>><bchacc at san.rr.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Is there a difference between a switch and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>a
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>router?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Rocky
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: "Frank Tanner III"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>><pctech at mybellybutton.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>problem
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>solving"
>>>>>>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 6:54 AM
>>>>>>>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Wireless
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>network
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>(sort
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>of)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I recommend "hardwiring" the IP address
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>any
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>device
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>or server connected to your LAN that's
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>not
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>a workstation and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>is virtually always on.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>For the price, I would also highly
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>recommend
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>removing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>all hubs from your network and using
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>them
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>as doorstops.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Switches have come way down in
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>price
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>have many benifits over hubs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Hubs divide the bandwidth across all
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>ports.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>Thus
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>if
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>you have an 8-port 10-BaseT hub, all
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>ports
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>processing data split that 10Mbit.  A
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>=== message truncated ===
>>
>>    
>>
>  
>


-- 
-Francisco



From martyconnelly at shaw.ca  Tue Nov  4 16:21:35 2003
From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:21:35 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
References: <008501c3a249$81cbb830$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>
 <00b601c3a2b2$2e577db0$9111758f@aine>
Message-ID: <3FA8266F.40703@shaw.ca>

Here is a list of MS Training videos for Powerpoint 2003
http://office.microsoft.com/training/courselist.aspx?CategoryID=CR061832731033&CTT=4&Origin=ES790000501033
Powerpoint enhancements for 2003 over xp
PowerPoint Package for CD
Export a PowerPoint presentation and all associated graphics and audio 
or video files to your hard drive and then transfer them to a CD. When 
the recipient inserts the CD into their CD drive, the presentation 
automatically launches in slide-show mode using the PowerPoint Viewer.
 
 PowerPoint smart tag support
PowerPoint 2003 supports smart tags, which are buttons that appear as 
needed (when you paste data, for example) to provide options for 
completing a task quickly.
 
PowerPoint enhanced multimedia support
PowerPoint 2003 supports additional video formats and full-screen video 
playback.
 

Martin Reid wrote:

>Andy
>
>I can let you have our training materials if you want.
>
>Martin
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Andy Lacey" <andy at minstersystems.co.uk>
>To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'"
><dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:31 PM
>Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
>
>
>  
>
>>The situation is that no-one at the customer has used it at all, and I'm
>>a novice myself. So now they feel the need, which is going to involve
>>purchasing copies (only have Office 97 so it's going to cost to get
>>later versions), training courses, books etc, and the question I'm asked
>>is "Which version shall we invest in?"
>>
>>Andy Lacey
>>http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
>>
>>    
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
>>>Martin Reid
>>>Sent: 03 November 2003 19:22
>>>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
>>>
>>>
>>>Andy
>>>
>>>Depend what you want to do. I found for your bog standard
>>>presentation theres little difference. We recently moved to
>>>XP so not much to say yet but I have taken intro courses and
>>>further powerpoint courses in the University and the only
>>>thing I have changed in the manuals is the screen dumps.
>>>
>>>Depends what you need to so with it???
>>>
>>>Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>From: "Andy Lacey" <andy at minstersystems.co.uk>
>>>To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'"
>>><accessd at databaseadvisors.com>; <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:11 AM
>>>Subject: [dba-Tech] Powerpoint question
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>This is first trial of new policy. I'm cross-posting to
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>AccesD and the
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Tech list but please reply ONLY to the the tech list as
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>this is no way
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Access-related - I just need guidance.
>>>>
>>>>Are there any Powerpoint experts out there? If so can
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>someone tell me
>>>      
>>>
>>>>what, if any, are the main pros and cons of the Office 97,
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>2000 and XP
>>>      
>>>
>>>>versions of Powerpoint? And which is the best, and why?
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>I've read the
>>>      
>>>
>>>>MS docs on this but am interested in "real" experience.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks in advance for any help. And if you're not yet on
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>the tech list
>>>      
>>>
>>>>you can subscribe via
>>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>>
>>>>Andy Lacey
>>>>http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>dba-Tech mailing list
>>>>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>dba-Tech mailing list
>>>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/d> ba-tech
>>>
>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>dba-Tech mailing list
>>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>  
>

-- 
Marty Connelly
Victoria, B.C.
Canada




From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Wed Nov  5 05:47:35 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:47:35 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort of)
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF720C@stekelbes.ithelps.local>

   I conclude that your server first spools the print jobs on the server
first?!

	 
	You would need to create a different ip range for that second
nic and printers. That would make thing more complicated. Furthermore
when your server first spools the job, that means that a print job is
send twice over the network once from the client to the server and once
from the server to the printer.
	 
	You could change the clients to print directly to the IP
printer. This is great for the switch and bandwith but has a
disadvantage. The printjob is queqed on the client pc and has to be on
during printing.
	This can be a problem when people start large job overnight. It
also charges the client pc more.
	If your printers have a hard disk they will store the job on to
their disk and you don't have that issue.
	But most networkprinter do not have a hard disk (in my
customerbase).
	 
	 
	You could however buy a swithch whre you can team up two network
cards.
	It is posible with some brands to combine two ports on the
switch with two nics on the server.
	This for fault tolerancy and/or combined bandwith, resulting in
a 200Mb pipe between server and switch.
	Both nics are seen as one nic to the os.
	 
	I believe the cost of a 1Gb link between switch and server will
not be much more expensive.
	A switch with 1 or 2 1Gb ports are not that uncommon anymore on
swithches.
	All other ports may be 100Mb
	 
	Please note that I'm not saying this will resolve your problem.
	Network problems and bandwith can be very complicated and even
be different depending on the time of day.
	for example, if your current server is today not powerfull
enough a switch will not help much or nothing at all.
	Erwin
	 
	 
	 
	 

		-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- 
		Van: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com namens
Francisco H Tapia 
		Verzonden: di 4/11/2003 19:25 
		Aan: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues 
		CC: 
		Onderwerp: Re: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort
of)
		
		

		Would it be helpful to add a 2nd Nic and bind all print
job request
		trough it, and leave the original nic for standard file
server access? 
		I don't know how to do this, but I can only imagine that
it could be
		done.  throw a Switch in there in place of the hub and
you've updated
		your network w/ 1 nic + the number of switches required.
		
		John Colby wrote:
		
		>Erwin,
		>
		>A collision is when one computer is transmitting and
another starts
		>transmitting over the top of the first.  The result of
a collision is that
		>the data is corrupted and has to be retransmitted.
		>
		>This can happen in a hub because ALL computers share a
single physical
		>electrical connection.  This simply cannot happen with
a switch because the
		>electronics set up a unique electrical connection from
computer to computer
		>using a cross point switch.
		>
		>With an eight port switch you could under ideal
circumstances have four 100
		>mbit conversations going on simultaneously.  There
would be no collisions at
		>all, four perfectly completed communications.
		>
		>Now obviously if a server is on one port and all the
other ports want to
		>talk to that port then only one at a time can do so,
but you still NEVER
		>have collisions since the electronics simply don't
connect port A to port B
		>unless port B is not in use.
		>
		>So yes, you have a bottleneck, all communications needs
to go through a
		>single port to get to the server, but NO, true
collisions (one computer
		>transmitting on top of and corrupting data of another
computer) NEVER happen
		>with a switch.
		>
		>John W. Colby
		>www.colbyconsulting.com
		>
		>-----Original Message-----
		>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
		>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf
Of Erwin Craps
		>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:07 AM
		>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
		>Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Re: [] Wireless network (sort
of)
		>
		>
		>Thats not to


From tinanfields at torchlake.com  Thu Nov  6 06:43:28 2003
From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 07:43:28 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Migrate Plug-Ins From Netscape to Mozilla?
Message-ID: <3FAA41F0.7090907@torchlake.com>

Hi,

Recently, I downloaded the Mozilla Firebird browser and Thunderbird mail 
client.  I plan to make the Firebird my default browser, but not until 
it recognizes all the nice plug-ins I already have for Netscape.  What 
is the trick?  I don't really want to go back and download the plug-in 
applications one by one - I've already done that for my Netscape 
installation.  Can anyone on this list tell me how to do this 
efficiently and effectively?  Thanks.

Tina


From bchacc at san.rr.com  Thu Nov  6 10:16:11 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:16:11 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] 
	Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list for this kind of
	question?
References: <3FAA41F0.7090907@torchlake.com>
Message-ID: <00b701c3a481$4b34bdf0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

Every time I get a spam I add it to my blocked senders list (OE).  I've got
about three hundred names in there now and add a couple every day.

I'm wondering if this is doing any good.  It would be nice to have a counter
which shows if an email has been blocked by the blocked sender's list, but I
don't know that it ever is.

In any event nothing's unlimited and eventually can this list become so long
it is unweildy?

Is it doing any good at all to block these spam senders?

TIA

Rocky


From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Thu Nov  6 10:22:56 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John Colby)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:22:56 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list for
	this kind ofquestion?
In-Reply-To: <00b701c3a481$4b34bdf0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPOEJKFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

Naw, get a real spam filter program and be done with it.

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
- Beach Access Software
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:16 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Cc: ot list
Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list for
this kind ofquestion?


Every time I get a spam I add it to my blocked senders list (OE).  I've got
about three hundred names in there now and add a couple every day.

I'm wondering if this is doing any good.  It would be nice to have a counter
which shows if an email has been blocked by the blocked sender's list, but I
don't know that it ever is.

In any event nothing's unlimited and eventually can this list become so long
it is unweildy?

Is it doing any good at all to block these spam senders?

TIA

Rocky

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From bchacc at san.rr.com  Thu Nov  6 10:40:06 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:40:06 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list
	forthis kind ofquestion?
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPOEJKFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <00fb01c3a484$a2a05240$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

Yeah, I'm thinking so.  It appears from my last thread that K9 is the best
way to go.  Except you still have to delete them by hand, no?  It shunts all
the stuff it thinks is spam to a folder for you to review?

Or can you make it automatically delete email with certain words like
viagara or penis?

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Colby" <jcolby at colbyconsulting.com>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 8:22 AM
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list
forthis kind ofquestion?


> Naw, get a real spam filter program and be done with it.
>
> John W. Colby
> www.colbyconsulting.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
> - Beach Access Software
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:16 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Cc: ot list
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list for
> this kind ofquestion?
>
>
> Every time I get a spam I add it to my blocked senders list (OE).  I've
got
> about three hundred names in there now and add a couple every day.
>
> I'm wondering if this is doing any good.  It would be nice to have a
counter
> which shows if an email has been blocked by the blocked sender's list, but
I
> don't know that it ever is.
>
> In any event nothing's unlimited and eventually can this list become so
long
> it is unweildy?
>
> Is it doing any good at all to block these spam senders?
>
> TIA
>
> Rocky
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk  Thu Nov  6 10:57:49 2003
From: Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk (Jon Tydda)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 16:57:49 -0000 
Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list fo
	rthis kind ofquestion?
Message-ID: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449D5C@ALCUXB>

The ones I've seen all segregate them into different folders, but you still
have to push delete yourself. You set up filters based on words or
characters in the message text, subject bar or address, but you still have
to delete everything yourself.

a year after installing Spamkiller (I know I go on about it a bit, but I
think it's great), I still have a quick look through the list of "filtered"
messages to make sure there are no false positives, perhaps from people
who's name isn't in your address book or something.


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com]
Sent: 06 November 2003 16:40
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list
forthis kind ofquestion?


Yeah, I'm thinking so.  It appears from my last thread that K9 is the best
way to go.  Except you still have to delete them by hand, no?  It shunts all
the stuff it thinks is spam to a folder for you to review?

Or can you make it automatically delete email with certain words like
viagara or penis?

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Colby" <jcolby at colbyconsulting.com>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 8:22 AM
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list
forthis kind ofquestion?


> Naw, get a real spam filter program and be done with it.
>
> John W. Colby
> www.colbyconsulting.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
> - Beach Access Software
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:16 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Cc: ot list
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list for
> this kind ofquestion?
>
>
> Every time I get a spam I add it to my blocked senders list (OE).  I've
got
> about three hundred names in there now and add a couple every day.
>
> I'm wondering if this is doing any good.  It would be nice to have a
counter
> which shows if an email has been blocked by the blocked sender's list, but
I
> don't know that it ever is.
>
> In any event nothing's unlimited and eventually can this list become so
long
> it is unweildy?
>
> Is it doing any good at all to block these spam senders?
>
> TIA
>
> Rocky
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
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Registered in England and Wales No 4057291

From my.lists at verizon.net  Thu Nov  6 11:16:06 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 09:16:06 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list
	forthis kind ofquestion?
In-Reply-To: <00fb01c3a484$a2a05240$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPOEJKFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
	<00fb01c3a484$a2a05240$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <3FAA81D6.2000001@verizon.net>

Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:

>Yeah, I'm thinking so.  It appears from my last thread that K9 is the best
>way to go.  Except you still have to delete them by hand, no?  It shunts all
>the stuff it thinks is spam to a folder for you to review?
>
>Or can you make it automatically delete email with certain words like
>viagara or penis?
>
>Rocky
>
>  
>
just found this on cloudmark's site,
http://www.cloudmark.com/products/spamnet/

a free (albiet beta) copy of Cloudmark for Outlook Express.

In Thunderbird you can set the time to wait before the automatic removal 
of spam, (if you want automatic removal that is...)

-- 
-Francisco



From my.lists at verizon.net  Thu Nov  6 11:18:57 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 09:18:57 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Migrate Plug-Ins From Netscape to Mozilla?
In-Reply-To: <3FAA41F0.7090907@torchlake.com>
References: <3FAA41F0.7090907@torchlake.com>
Message-ID: <3FAA8281.1030709@verizon.net>

Tina Norris Fields wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Recently, I downloaded the Mozilla Firebird browser and Thunderbird 
> mail client.  I plan to make the Firebird my default browser, but not 
> until it recognizes all the nice plug-ins I already have for 
> Netscape.  What is the trick?  I don't really want to go back and 
> download the plug-in applications one by one - I've already done that 
> for my Netscape installation.  Can anyone on this list tell me how to 
> do this efficiently and effectively?  Thanks.
>
> Tina
>
> _______________________________________________

IIRC it should just be a matter of coping and pasting the Plugins directory.
just visited the site and found that they have a registry entry you can 
add to help w/ the plugins for Mozilla Firebird.
http://plugindoc.mozdev.org/faqs/phoenixwin.html

btw, Which Version of Firebird and Thunderbird are you using I'm using

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 
Firebird/0.7
and
Mozilla Thunderbird 0.4a (20031103)

-- 
-Francisco



From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Thu Nov  6 11:23:29 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John Colby)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:23:29 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right listforthis
	kind ofquestion?
In-Reply-To: <00fb01c3a484$a2a05240$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPGEJPFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

You could set up rules on the spam filter doing that.  Unfortunately the
spammers are starting to do the P&E-Nl$ thing which just kills those kinds
of rules.  Which is why the Bayesian filter is the only real option.

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
- Beach Access Software
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:40 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right
listforthis kind ofquestion?


Yeah, I'm thinking so.  It appears from my last thread that K9 is the best
way to go.  Except you still have to delete them by hand, no?  It shunts all
the stuff it thinks is spam to a folder for you to review?

Or can you make it automatically delete email with certain words like
viagara or penis?

Rocky

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Colby" <jcolby at colbyconsulting.com>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 8:22 AM
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list
forthis kind ofquestion?


> Naw, get a real spam filter program and be done with it.
>
> John W. Colby
> www.colbyconsulting.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
> - Beach Access Software
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:16 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Cc: ot list
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list for
> this kind ofquestion?
>
>
> Every time I get a spam I add it to my blocked senders list (OE).  I've
got
> about three hundred names in there now and add a couple every day.
>
> I'm wondering if this is doing any good.  It would be nice to have a
counter
> which shows if an email has been blocked by the blocked sender's list, but
I
> don't know that it ever is.
>
> In any event nothing's unlimited and eventually can this list become so
long
> it is unweildy?
>
> Is it doing any good at all to block these spam senders?
>
> TIA
>
> Rocky
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From bchacc at san.rr.com  Thu Nov  6 11:41:17 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:41:17 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list
	forthis kind ofquestion?
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPOEJKFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
	<00fb01c3a484$a2a05240$6501a8c0@HAL9002> <3FAA81D6.2000001@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <019401c3a48d$2e7f8940$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

Thanks for that.  Looks promising.  Like a virus library.  Blocks emails
which have been identified as spam by a central repository.

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Francisco H Tapia" <my.lists at verizon.net>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list
forthis kind ofquestion?


> Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:
>
> >Yeah, I'm thinking so.  It appears from my last thread that K9 is the
best
> >way to go.  Except you still have to delete them by hand, no?  It shunts
all
> >the stuff it thinks is spam to a folder for you to review?
> >
> >Or can you make it automatically delete email with certain words like
> >viagara or penis?
> >
> >Rocky
> >
> >
> >
> just found this on cloudmark's site,
> http://www.cloudmark.com/products/spamnet/
>
> a free (albiet beta) copy of Cloudmark for Outlook Express.
>
> In Thunderbird you can set the time to wait before the automatic removal
> of spam, (if you want automatic removal that is...)
>
> -- 
> -Francisco
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From my.lists at verizon.net  Thu Nov  6 11:58:15 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 09:58:15 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list
	forthis kind ofquestion?
In-Reply-To: <019401c3a48d$2e7f8940$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPOEJKFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
	<00fb01c3a484$a2a05240$6501a8c0@HAL9002> <3FAA81D6.2000001@verizon.net>
	<019401c3a48d$2e7f8940$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <3FAA8BB7.7040509@verizon.net>

David McAfee uses Cloudmark (For Outlook) and is very happy with it.  
I've never used it, but then I really don't have a spam problem anymore 
thanks to (yes repeat plug for) Thunderbird.

-- 
-Francisco


Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:

>Thanks for that.  Looks promising.  Like a virus library.  Blocks emails
>which have been identified as spam by a central repository.
>
>Rocky
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Francisco H Tapia" <my.lists at verizon.net>
>To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
><dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
>Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 9:16 AM
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list
>forthis kind ofquestion?
>
>
>  
>
>>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Yeah, I'm thinking so.  It appears from my last thread that K9 is the
>>>      
>>>
>best
>  
>
>>>way to go.  Except you still have to delete them by hand, no?  It shunts
>>>      
>>>
>all
>  
>
>>>the stuff it thinks is spam to a folder for you to review?
>>>
>>>Or can you make it automatically delete email with certain words like
>>>viagara or penis?
>>>
>>>Rocky
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>just found this on cloudmark's site,
>>http://www.cloudmark.com/products/spamnet/
>>
>>a free (albiet beta) copy of Cloudmark for Outlook Express.
>>
>>In Thunderbird you can set the time to wait before the automatic removal
>>of spam, (if you want automatic removal that is...)
>>
>>-- 
>>-Francisco
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>dba-Tech mailing list
>>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>  
>



From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Thu Nov  6 11:54:31 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John Colby)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:54:31 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right listforthis
	kind ofquestion?
In-Reply-To: <019401c3a48d$2e7f8940$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPIEKAFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

Rocky,

I used that for awhile.  They play by the subscription model, i.e. want $x
per month.  You are supposed to report spam back to them using a toolbar.
What is spam to you may not be spam to the next guy (AccessD list email?  It
was reported as spam by someone!).  It worked but in the end it was no less
of a hassle than a good Bayesian filter that I train to MY spam and then
just do a mass delete once per day.

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
- Beach Access Software
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:41 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right
listforthis kind ofquestion?


Thanks for that.  Looks promising.  Like a virus library.  Blocks emails
which have been identified as spam by a central repository.

Rocky

----- Original Message -----
From: "Francisco H Tapia" <my.lists at verizon.net>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list
forthis kind ofquestion?


> Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:
>
> >Yeah, I'm thinking so.  It appears from my last thread that K9 is the
best
> >way to go.  Except you still have to delete them by hand, no?  It shunts
all
> >the stuff it thinks is spam to a folder for you to review?
> >
> >Or can you make it automatically delete email with certain words like
> >viagara or penis?
> >
> >Rocky
> >
> >
> >
> just found this on cloudmark's site,
> http://www.cloudmark.com/products/spamnet/
>
> a free (albiet beta) copy of Cloudmark for Outlook Express.
>
> In Thunderbird you can set the time to wait before the automatic removal
> of spam, (if you want automatic removal that is...)
>
> --
> -Francisco
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From bchacc at san.rr.com  Thu Nov  6 14:18:17 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:18:17 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right
	listforthiskind ofquestion?
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPIEKAFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <024c01c3a4a3$1d3a4b50$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

Got it.

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Colby" <jcolby at colbyconsulting.com>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 9:54 AM
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right
listforthiskind ofquestion?


> Rocky,
>
> I used that for awhile.  They play by the subscription model, i.e. want $x
> per month.  You are supposed to report spam back to them using a toolbar.
> What is spam to you may not be spam to the next guy (AccessD list email?
It
> was reported as spam by someone!).  It worked but in the end it was no
less
> of a hassle than a good Bayesian filter that I train to MY spam and then
> just do a mass delete once per day.
>
> John W. Colby
> www.colbyconsulting.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
> - Beach Access Software
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:41 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right
> listforthis kind ofquestion?
>
>
> Thanks for that.  Looks promising.  Like a virus library.  Blocks emails
> which have been identified as spam by a central repository.
>
> Rocky
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Francisco H Tapia" <my.lists at verizon.net>
> To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
> <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 9:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list
> forthis kind ofquestion?
>
>
> > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:
> >
> > >Yeah, I'm thinking so.  It appears from my last thread that K9 is the
> best
> > >way to go.  Except you still have to delete them by hand, no?  It
shunts
> all
> > >the stuff it thinks is spam to a folder for you to review?
> > >
> > >Or can you make it automatically delete email with certain words like
> > >viagara or penis?
> > >
> > >Rocky
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > just found this on cloudmark's site,
> > http://www.cloudmark.com/products/spamnet/
> >
> > a free (albiet beta) copy of Cloudmark for Outlook Express.
> >
> > In Thunderbird you can set the time to wait before the automatic removal
> > of spam, (if you want automatic removal that is...)
> >
> > --
> > -Francisco
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From mike.tope at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov  6 14:36:26 2003
From: mike.tope at dsl.pipex.com (Mike Tope)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 20:36:26 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right
	listforthiskind ofquestion?
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPIEKAFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <00c901c3a4a5$b4377bc0$0207a8c0@TopEnergy>

Rocky
Harking back to your earlier thread, I also use OE, and on I think it was
John C's recommendation I put in Spam Assassin in the form of SAproxy, and
for weeks it was just right without any learning mode for it or me.

Then a few little nasties started to get through. I've still not turned on
the software's learning mode, but I have started writing my own rules -
they're just regular expressions in Perl granted a score - and it seems to
be back to near 100% touch wood.

The real problem with the learning ones is that you need literally thousands
of good and bad messages for them to learn from. If you've only got a little
disk, or only getting a handful of spam each day, it's not the right answer.
Plus I haven't sussed how to point SAproxy at an OE folder to learn from -
SA itself is not really a Windows product.

Meanwhile I believe SAproxy is becoming a paid-for product but I'll happily
send along the installer I got for free in July (2.4Mb).

Regards
Mike Tope
London

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Colby" <jcolby at colbyconsulting.com>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: 06 November 2003 17:54
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right
listforthiskind ofquestion?


> Rocky,
>
> I used that for awhile.  They play by the subscription model, i.e. want $x
> per month.  You are supposed to report spam back to them using a toolbar.
> What is spam to you may not be spam to the next guy (AccessD list email?
It
> was reported as spam by someone!).  It worked but in the end it was no
less
> of a hassle than a good Bayesian filter that I train to MY spam and then
> just do a mass delete once per day.
>
> John W. Colby
> www.colbyconsulting.com



From bchacc at san.rr.com  Thu Nov  6 15:49:24 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:49:24 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the
	rightlistforthiskind ofquestion?
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPIEKAFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
	<00c901c3a4a5$b4377bc0$0207a8c0@TopEnergy>
Message-ID: <02a701c3a4af$d83bb6d0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

Thanks Mike.  Fortunately my spam count is pretty low right now.  Al the
solutions are currently more trouble than the delete key.  But it may
change. :(

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Tope" <mike.tope at dsl.pipex.com>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the
rightlistforthiskind ofquestion?


> Rocky
> Harking back to your earlier thread, I also use OE, and on I think it was
> John C's recommendation I put in Spam Assassin in the form of SAproxy, and
> for weeks it was just right without any learning mode for it or me.
>
> Then a few little nasties started to get through. I've still not turned on
> the software's learning mode, but I have started writing my own rules -
> they're just regular expressions in Perl granted a score - and it seems to
> be back to near 100% touch wood.
>
> The real problem with the learning ones is that you need literally
thousands
> of good and bad messages for them to learn from. If you've only got a
little
> disk, or only getting a handful of spam each day, it's not the right
answer.
> Plus I haven't sussed how to point SAproxy at an OE folder to learn from -
> SA itself is not really a Windows product.
>
> Meanwhile I believe SAproxy is becoming a paid-for product but I'll
happily
> send along the installer I got for free in July (2.4Mb).
>
> Regards
> Mike Tope
> London
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Colby" <jcolby at colbyconsulting.com>
> To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
> <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: 06 November 2003 17:54
> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right
> listforthiskind ofquestion?
>
>
> > Rocky,
> >
> > I used that for awhile.  They play by the subscription model, i.e. want
$x
> > per month.  You are supposed to report spam back to them using a
toolbar.
> > What is spam to you may not be spam to the next guy (AccessD list email?
> It
> > was reported as spam by someone!).  It worked but in the end it was no
> less
> > of a hassle than a good Bayesian filter that I train to MY spam and then
> > just do a mass delete once per day.
> >
> > John W. Colby
> > www.colbyconsulting.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From bchacc at san.rr.com  Thu Nov  6 16:14:15 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:14:15 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Fw: [AccessD] Export Access Report to Word
Message-ID: <032a01c3a4b3$50e1ea70$6501a8c0@HAL9002>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" <bchacc at san.rr.com>
To: <AccessD at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 1:46 PM
Subject: [AccessD] Export Access Report to Word


Dear List:

I need to find a way to get a number of reports from an application into a
format that can be imported into Word.  It's for a user manual. Its for the
Appendix - sample reports from the app.

I have used the ReportUtilities download (can't remember where I got it),
which worked well on the last manual but the reports had very little
formatting and graphics.

The reports I'm trying to do need to show all the boxes and lines.  And
since the manual changes I don't want to go through that handcrafting this
of printing the blank pages with the page numbers, headers and footers, and
then trying to use those to print the reports on them directly.  Love to get
these reports into Word where I can crop and zoom etc.

Does anyone know how this can be done?

Regards,

Rocky Smolin
Beach Access Software
_______________________________________________
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Thu Nov  6 16:24:42 2003
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 08:24:42 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list
	forthis kind ofquestion?
In-Reply-To: <019401c3a48d$2e7f8940$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <3FAB56CA.820.11613F@localhost>

I think Spamnet is a terrible idea. Just two quick reasons (there are 
several  technical ones ):

It queries a central server for every every email you received
That's got to be nearly as  much a waste of bandwidth as spam itself.

You are relying on other peoples judgement of what is spam.
One man's spam is another man's spiced ham :-)


On 6 Nov 2003 at 9:41, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote:

> Thanks for that.  Looks promising.  Like a virus library.  Blocks emails
> which have been identified as spam by a central repository.
> 
> Rocky
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Francisco H Tapia" <my.lists at verizon.net>
> To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
> <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 9:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list
> forthis kind ofquestion?
> 
> 
> > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:
> >
> > >Yeah, I'm thinking so.  It appears from my last thread that K9 is the
> best
> > >way to go.  Except you still have to delete them by hand, no?  It shunts
> all
> > >the stuff it thinks is spam to a folder for you to review?
> > >
> > >Or can you make it automatically delete email with certain words like
> > >viagara or penis?
> > >
> > >Rocky
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > just found this on cloudmark's site,
> > http://www.cloudmark.com/products/spamnet/
> >
> > a free (albiet beta) copy of Cloudmark for Outlook Express.
> >
> > In Thunderbird you can set the time to wait before the automatic removal
> > of spam, (if you want automatic removal that is...)
> >
> > -- 
> > -Francisco
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

 
-- 
Lexacorp Ltd
http://www.lexacorp.com.pg
Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support.




From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Thu Nov  6 16:30:56 2003
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 08:30:56 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list
	forthis kind ofquestion?
In-Reply-To: <00fb01c3a484$a2a05240$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <3FAB5840.5880.17185E@localhost>

On 6 Nov 2003 at 8:40, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote:

> Yeah, I'm thinking so.  It appears from my last thread that K9 is the best
> way to go.  Except you still have to delete them by hand, no?  It shunts all
> the stuff it thinks is spam to a folder for you to review?
> 
> Or can you make it automatically delete email with certain words like
> viagara or penis?
> 
It doesn't work on keywords, it works on Baysesian analysis of the 
whole content of the message.

It is a POP3 proxy, it sits between your mailserver and your mail 
client.   That means that when it arrives in your mail client, it has 
passed through K9 and an identifier has been placed in the message if 
it is spam.

Then it's up to you to do what you want with it.  If you use a decent 
email client with good filtering capabilities, you can file it in a 
folder for reveiw, delete it, file it with an expiry date so that it 
will be deleted after x days,  or forward it to your granny.




 
-- 
Lexacorp Ltd
http://www.lexacorp.com.pg
Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support.




From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Thu Nov  6 16:32:05 2003
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 08:32:05 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] 	Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list for
	this kind of	question?
In-Reply-To: <00b701c3a481$4b34bdf0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <3FAB5885.23155.18263F@localhost>

On 6 Nov 2003 at 8:16, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote:

> Every time I get a spam I add it to my blocked senders list (OE).  I've got
> about three hundred names in there now and add a couple every day.
> 
> I'm wondering if this is doing any good.  It would be nice to have a counter
> which shows if an email has been blocked by the blocked sender's list, but I
> don't know that it ever is.
> 
> In any event nothing's unlimited and eventually can this list become so long
> it is unweildy?
> 
> Is it doing any good at all to block these spam senders?
> 
A complete waste of time. Spammers do not use the same name/address 
twice.

 
-- 
Lexacorp Ltd
http://www.lexacorp.com.pg
Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System 
Support.




From andy at minstersystems.co.uk  Thu Nov  6 16:09:33 2003
From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 22:09:33 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this
	therightlistforthiskind ofquestion?
In-Reply-To: <02a701c3a4af$d83bb6d0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <00e701c3a4b2$a905f620$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>

You mustn't worry about your low spam count Rocky, you can be treated.

Andy Lacey
http://www.minstersystems.co.uk 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of 
> Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
> Sent: 06 November 2003 21:49
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this 
> therightlistforthiskind ofquestion?
> 
> 
> Thanks Mike.  Fortunately my spam count is pretty low right 
> now.  Al the solutions are currently more trouble than the 
> delete key.  But it may change. :(
> 
> Rocky
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Tope" <mike.tope at dsl.pipex.com>
> To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" 
> <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the 
> rightlistforthiskind ofquestion?
> 
> 
> > Rocky
> > Harking back to your earlier thread, I also use OE, and on 
> I think it 
> > was John C's recommendation I put in Spam Assassin in the form of 
> > SAproxy, and for weeks it was just right without any 
> learning mode for 
> > it or me.
> >
> > Then a few little nasties started to get through. I've still not 
> > turned on the software's learning mode, but I have started 
> writing my 
> > own rules - they're just regular expressions in Perl 
> granted a score - 
> > and it seems to be back to near 100% touch wood.
> >
> > The real problem with the learning ones is that you need literally
> thousands
> > of good and bad messages for them to learn from. If you've 
> only got a
> little
> > disk, or only getting a handful of spam each day, it's not the right
> answer.
> > Plus I haven't sussed how to point SAproxy at an OE folder to learn 
> > from - SA itself is not really a Windows product.
> >
> > Meanwhile I believe SAproxy is becoming a paid-for product but I'll
> happily
> > send along the installer I got for free in July (2.4Mb).
> >
> > Regards
> > Mike Tope
> > London
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Colby" <jcolby at colbyconsulting.com>
> > To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" 
> > <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> > Sent: 06 November 2003 17:54
> > Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right 
> > listforthiskind ofquestion?
> >
> >
> > > Rocky,
> > >
> > > I used that for awhile.  They play by the subscription 
> model, i.e. 
> > > want
> $x
> > > per month.  You are supposed to report spam back to them using a
> toolbar.
> > > What is spam to you may not be spam to the next guy (AccessD list 
> > > email?
> > It
> > > was reported as spam by someone!).  It worked but in the 
> end it was 
> > > no
> > less
> > > of a hassle than a good Bayesian filter that I train to 
> MY spam and 
> > > then just do a mass delete once per day.
> > >
> > > John W. Colby
> > > www.colbyconsulting.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/d> ba-tech
> 
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 



From bchacc at san.rr.com  Thu Nov  6 17:34:21 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:34:21 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is
	thistherightlistforthiskind ofquestion?
References: <00e701c3a4b2$a905f620$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>
Message-ID: <035101c3a4be$8146d3f0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

Please!  Don't treat me!  For God's Sake!  No treatments!

I'll get along.

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andy Lacey" <andy at minstersystems.co.uk>
To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is
thistherightlistforthiskind ofquestion?


> You mustn't worry about your low spam count Rocky, you can be treated.
>
> Andy Lacey
> http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
> > Sent: 06 November 2003 21:49
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this
> > therightlistforthiskind ofquestion?
> >
> >
> > Thanks Mike.  Fortunately my spam count is pretty low right
> > now.  Al the solutions are currently more trouble than the
> > delete key.  But it may change. :(
> >
> > Rocky
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Mike Tope" <mike.tope at dsl.pipex.com>
> > To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
> > <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:36 PM
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the
> > rightlistforthiskind ofquestion?
> >
> >
> > > Rocky
> > > Harking back to your earlier thread, I also use OE, and on
> > I think it
> > > was John C's recommendation I put in Spam Assassin in the form of
> > > SAproxy, and for weeks it was just right without any
> > learning mode for
> > > it or me.
> > >
> > > Then a few little nasties started to get through. I've still not
> > > turned on the software's learning mode, but I have started
> > writing my
> > > own rules - they're just regular expressions in Perl
> > granted a score -
> > > and it seems to be back to near 100% touch wood.
> > >
> > > The real problem with the learning ones is that you need literally
> > thousands
> > > of good and bad messages for them to learn from. If you've
> > only got a
> > little
> > > disk, or only getting a handful of spam each day, it's not the right
> > answer.
> > > Plus I haven't sussed how to point SAproxy at an OE folder to learn
> > > from - SA itself is not really a Windows product.
> > >
> > > Meanwhile I believe SAproxy is becoming a paid-for product but I'll
> > happily
> > > send along the installer I got for free in July (2.4Mb).
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Mike Tope
> > > London
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "John Colby" <jcolby at colbyconsulting.com>
> > > To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
> > > <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> > > Sent: 06 November 2003 17:54
> > > Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right
> > > listforthiskind ofquestion?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Rocky,
> > > >
> > > > I used that for awhile.  They play by the subscription
> > model, i.e.
> > > > want
> > $x
> > > > per month.  You are supposed to report spam back to them using a
> > toolbar.
> > > > What is spam to you may not be spam to the next guy (AccessD list
> > > > email?
> > > It
> > > > was reported as spam by someone!).  It worked but in the
> > end it was
> > > > no
> > > less
> > > > of a hassle than a good Bayesian filter that I train to
> > MY spam and
> > > > then just do a mass delete once per day.
> > > >
> > > > John W. Colby
> > > > www.colbyconsulting.com
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/d> ba-tech
> >
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From mike.tope at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov  6 17:50:12 2003
From: mike.tope at dsl.pipex.com (Mike Tope)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 23:50:12 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] 	Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list
	forthis kind of	question?
References: <3FAB5885.23155.18263F@localhost>
Message-ID: <003a01c3a4c0$ba689cc0$0207a8c0@TopEnergy>

> A complete waste of time. Spammers do not use the same name/address
> twice.

Rubbish.
Even with it filtered into a spam folder and deleted daily I've spotted
names that come back again and again.
I'm currently staring at one 'from' Kathryn R. Williams which keeps coming
back (I know a Kathy Williams, but this is Kathryn R. Williams
<roxannmarl at mail.plugged.com.lb>) with the subject line
mpublw big finance why keep ?p the struggle, get o?t o.f that me5s vokupo

I haven't blocked the sender, though. It got 7.9 points, which was enough.
Mike Tope



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Thu Nov  6 20:54:32 2003
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 12:54:32 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] 	Blocked Sender's List or Is this the right list
	forthis kind of	question?
In-Reply-To: <003a01c3a4c0$ba689cc0$0207a8c0@TopEnergy>
Message-ID: <3FAB9608.31629.8CCB1@localhost>

On 6 Nov 2003 at 23:50, Mike Tope wrote:

> > A complete waste of time. Spammers do not use the same name/address
> > twice.
> 
> Rubbish.
> Even with it filtered into a spam folder and deleted daily I've spotted
> names that come back again and again.
> I'm currently staring at one 'from' Kathryn R. Williams which keeps coming
> back (I know a Kathy Williams, but this is Kathryn R. Williams
> <roxannmarl at mail.plugged.com.lb>) with the subject line
> mpublw big finance why keep ?p the struggle, get o?t o.f that me5s vokupo
> 
> I haven't blocked the sender, though. It got 7.9 points, which was enough.
> Mike Tope
> 

OK, maybe I was not strictly correct. 

A quick look at my uncleared spam folder: 1509 messages, 1397 unique 
addresses. The 112 duplicates represent 29 different names

Of that 29, 17 are multiples in the same spam run.They have more than 
one address for me in their database.
(lexacorp at global.net.pg, pomh3 at lexacorp.com.pg, hash at lexacorp.com.pg 
etc)

I have received spam on different dates from the other 12 names. So 
12 / 1397 recent names/address that I have received spam from were 
used more than once.

Make that:
"99% of spammers do not use the same name/address twice."


 
-- 
Lexacorp Ltd
http://www.lexacorp.com.pg
Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System 
Support.




From bchacc at san.rr.com  Fri Nov  7 09:31:52 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:31:52 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Power Consumption
Message-ID: <00bb01c3a544$45177430$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

I'm trying to teach the kids a little about electricity conservation - see if we can knock down that electric bill a bit (we pay about $.10 per kwh).  I'm going to have them calculate how much it costs to leave various things on per hour.

So the question is, if a computer has a 300 watt power supply, is it drawing 300 watts all the time?  Does it draw more when it's computing than when it's idling?  What's a good way for them to estimate how much a computer uses if they leave it on overnight? Just the computer, not the monitor.

Come to think of it, I leave my laser printer on all the time although it has a sleep mode and has to do a warm up if it hasn't printed anything for a while.  Also leave the speakers on - they use one of those little transformers that plugs directly into an outlet.  I suppose they draw minute amounts of power all the time although I never considered them to be major power users.

TIA

Rocky

From DBCfour at aol.com  Fri Nov  7 09:44:16 2003
From: DBCfour at aol.com (DBCfour at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:44:16 EST
Subject: [dba-Tech] Power Consumption
Message-ID: <1d7.1393e682.2cdd17d0@aol.com>


Here ya go..

http://www.w9if.net/iweb/cpupower/index.shtml

Donna

In a message dated 11/7/2003 10:34:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
bchacc at san.rr.com writes:


> I'm trying to teach the kids a little about electricity conservation - see 
> if we can knock down that electric bill a bit (we pay about $.10 per kwh).  
> I'm going to have them calculate how much it costs to leave various things on 
> per hour.
> 
> So the question is, if a computer has a 300 watt power supply, is it drawing 
> 300 watts all the time?  Does it draw more when it's computing than when 
> it's idling?  What's a good way for them to estimate how much a computer uses if 
> they leave it on overnight? Just the computer, not the monitor.
> 
> Come to think of it, I leave my laser printer on all the time although it 
> has a sleep mode and has to do a warm up if it hasn't printed anything for a 
> while.  Also leave the speakers on - they use one of those little transformers 
> that plugs directly into an outlet.  I suppose they draw minute amounts of 
> power all the time although I never considered them to be major power users.
> 
> TIA
> 
> Rocky
> _______________________________________________


From john at winhaven.net  Fri Nov  7 10:13:02 2003
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:13:02 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Power Consumption
In-Reply-To: <00bb01c3a544$45177430$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <NGBBLIECOMAKBPEDMKEJCENEFEAA.john@winhaven.net>

Rocky,
PC power supplies are actually rated at higher consumption than they use. I
did some research on this earlier in the year unfortunately I didn't record
where I got the information. (I remember that some of its was googled
though). Also if you have your PC power consumption settings to the factory
defaults it is going conserve quite a bit of power after you don't use use
it for awhile- like 70% I think. (Control Panel Power Options - You can get
there via the Energy Star settings on your display settings too).

Many printers, scanners, etc have "standby or sleep" modes built into them
and some you can't shut the power off with "pulling the plug". I can hear my
laserjet kicking down to standby when it does so (a couple of minutes after
the last print job).

I looked into the little transformer "power packs" that seem to come with
everything these days and they are not as efficient as you might think. Most
of them draw power whether its needed or not, albeit not much power.

You might try energystar.gov as a starting point. I would imagine you could
spend all day on this googling up info on this topic.

HTH
John B.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
> - Beach Access Software
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 9:32 AM
> To: dba-tech
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Power Consumption
>
>
> I'm trying to teach the kids a little about electricity
> conservation - see if we can knock down that electric bill a bit
> (we pay about $.10 per kwh).  I'm going to have them calculate
> how much it costs to leave various things on per hour.
>
> So the question is, if a computer has a 300 watt power supply, is
> it drawing 300 watts all the time?  Does it draw more when it's
> computing than when it's idling?  What's a good way for them to
> estimate how much a computer uses if they leave it on overnight?
> Just the computer, not the monitor.
>
> Come to think of it, I leave my laser printer on all the time
> although it has a sleep mode and has to do a warm up if it hasn't
> printed anything for a while.  Also leave the speakers on - they
> use one of those little transformers that plugs directly into an
> outlet.  I suppose they draw minute amounts of power all the time
> although I never considered them to be major power users.
>
> TIA
>
> Rocky
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>



From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Nov  7 10:24:41 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John Colby)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:24:41 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Power Consumption
In-Reply-To: <00bb01c3a544$45177430$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMENHFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

Uhh... just teach them that the TELEVISION uses 400 watts and leaving it off
all the time will save a bundle.  Good for the electric bill, good for the
kids.

;-)

Seriously though, the 300 watts is a maximum that can be drawn, not how much
is being used.  How much is really used will be a function of how many hard
drives and the processor type mostly.  Those two things use the most power.

John W. Colby
www.colbyconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
- Beach Access Software
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 10:32 AM
To: dba-tech
Subject: [dba-Tech] Power Consumption


I'm trying to teach the kids a little about electricity conservation - see
if we can knock down that electric bill a bit (we pay about $.10 per kwh).
I'm going to have them calculate how much it costs to leave various things
on per hour.

So the question is, if a computer has a 300 watt power supply, is it drawing
300 watts all the time?  Does it draw more when it's computing than when
it's idling?  What's a good way for them to estimate how much a computer
uses if they leave it on overnight? Just the computer, not the monitor.

Come to think of it, I leave my laser printer on all the time although it
has a sleep mode and has to do a warm up if it hasn't printed anything for a
while.  Also leave the speakers on - they use one of those little
transformers that plugs directly into an outlet.  I suppose they draw minute
amounts of power all the time although I never considered them to be major
power users.

TIA

Rocky
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From bchacc at san.rr.com  Fri Nov  7 10:34:09 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:34:09 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Power Consumption
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMENHFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <012e01c3a54c$f81ddcb0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

Well the TV and the lights will be easy and instructive.  I'll estimate the
computers at 80 watts continuous and let it go at that.

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Colby" <jcolby at colbyconsulting.com>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 8:24 AM
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Power Consumption


> Uhh... just teach them that the TELEVISION uses 400 watts and leaving it
off
> all the time will save a bundle.  Good for the electric bill, good for the
> kids.
>
> ;-)
>
> Seriously though, the 300 watts is a maximum that can be drawn, not how
much
> is being used.  How much is really used will be a function of how many
hard
> drives and the processor type mostly.  Those two things use the most
power.
>
> John W. Colby
> www.colbyconsulting.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
> - Beach Access Software
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 10:32 AM
> To: dba-tech
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Power Consumption
>
>
> I'm trying to teach the kids a little about electricity conservation - see
> if we can knock down that electric bill a bit (we pay about $.10 per kwh).
> I'm going to have them calculate how much it costs to leave various things
> on per hour.
>
> So the question is, if a computer has a 300 watt power supply, is it
drawing
> 300 watts all the time?  Does it draw more when it's computing than when
> it's idling?  What's a good way for them to estimate how much a computer
> uses if they leave it on overnight? Just the computer, not the monitor.
>
> Come to think of it, I leave my laser printer on all the time although it
> has a sleep mode and has to do a warm up if it hasn't printed anything for
a
> while.  Also leave the speakers on - they use one of those little
> transformers that plugs directly into an outlet.  I suppose they draw
minute
> amounts of power all the time although I never considered them to be major
> power users.
>
> TIA
>
> Rocky
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From michael.mattys at adelphia.net  Sun Nov  9 07:51:02 2003
From: michael.mattys at adelphia.net (Michael R Mattys)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 08:51:02 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook New Mail Notification
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMENHFJAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <00f501c3a6c8$84c2e120$6401a8c0@default>

I have found three methods that might do the trick
of removing the Outlook envelope icon from the tray.
See below sig ...

(I know these don't work in Outlook Express because
the function is "hardwired" into the app)

Michael R. Mattys
Try MattysMapLib for MapPoint at
www.mattysconsulting.com


'Method 1
'---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
'Author is NEO
Public Const WUM_RESETNOTIFICATION As Long = &H407

'Required Public constants, types & declares
'for the Shell_Notify API method

Public Const NIM_ADD As Long = &H0
Public Const NIM_MODIFY As Long = &H1
Public Const NIM_DELETE As Long = &H2


Public Const NIF_ICON As Long = &H2 'adding an ICON
Public Const NIF_TIP As Long = &H4 'adding a TIP
Public Const NIF_MESSAGE As Long = &H1 'want return messages


' Structure needed for Shell_Notify API

Type NOTIFYICONDATA
  cbSize As Long
  hwnd As Long
  uID As Long
  uFlags As Long
  uCallbackMessage As Long
  hIcon As Long
  szTip As String * 64
End Type

Declare Function SendMessage Lib "user32" Alias "SendMessageA" _
  (ByVal hwnd As Long, ByVal wMsg As Long, _
  ByVal wParam As Integer, ByVal lParam As Any) As Long

Declare Function GetClassName Lib "user32" _
  Alias "GetClassNameA" _
  (ByVal hwnd As Long, _
  ByVal lpClassName As String, _
  ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As Long

Declare Function GetWindowTextLength Lib "user32" _
  Alias "GetWindowTextLengthA" _
  (ByVal hwnd As Long) As Long

Declare Function GetWindowText Lib "user32" _
  Alias "GetWindowTextA" _
  (ByVal hwnd As Long, _
  ByVal lpString As String, _
  ByVal cch As Long) As Long

Declare Function EnumWindows Lib "user32" _
  (ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, _
  ByVal lParam As Long) As Long

Declare Function Shell_NotifyIcon Lib "shell32.dll" _
  Alias "Shell_NotifyIconA" _
  (ByVal dwMessage As Long, _
  lpData As NOTIFYICONDATA) As Long

Declare Function FindWindow Lib "user32" Alias "FindWindowA" _
  (ByVal lpClassName As String, _
  ByVal lpWindowName As String) As Long

' This is the entry point that makes it happen
Sub RemoveNewMailIcon()
  EnumWindows AddressOf EnumWindowProc, 0
End Sub

Public Function EnumWindowProc(ByVal hwnd As Long, _
  ByVal lParam As Long) As Long


  'Do stuff here with hwnd

  Dim sClass As String
  Dim sIDType As String
  Dim sTitle As String
  Dim hResult As Long

  sTitle = GetWindowIdentification(hwnd, sIDType, sClass)
  If sTitle = "rctrl_renwnd32" Then
    hResult = KillNewMailIcon(hwnd)
  End If

  If hResult Then
    EnumWindowProc = False

    ' Reset the new mail notification engine
    Call SendMessage(hwnd, WUM_RESETNOTIFICATION, 0&, 0&)
  Else
    EnumWindowProc = True
  End If
End Function

Private Function GetWindowIdentification(ByVal hwnd As Long, _
  sIDType As String, _
  sClass As String) As String

  Dim nSize As Long
  Dim sTitle As String

  'get the size of the string required
  'to hold the window title
  nSize = GetWindowTextLength(hwnd)

  'if the return is 0, there is no title
  If nSize > 0 Then
    sTitle = Space$(nSize + 1)
    Call GetWindowText(hwnd, sTitle, nSize + 1)
    sIDType = "title"
    sClass = Space$(64)
    Call GetClassName(hwnd, sClass, 64)

  Else

    'no title, so get the class name instead

    sTitle = Space$(64)
    Call GetClassName(hwnd, sTitle, 64)
    sClass = sTitle
    sIDType = "class"
  End If

  GetWindowIdentification = TrimNull(sTitle)
End Function

Private Function TrimNull(startstr As String) As String
  Dim pos As Integer
  pos = InStr(startstr, Chr$(0))
  If pos Then
    TrimNull = Left(startstr, pos - 1)
    Exit Function
  End If

  'if this far, there was
  'no Chr$(0), so return the string
  TrimNull = startstr
End Function

Private Function KillNewMailIcon(ByVal hwnd As Long) As Boolean
  Dim pShell_Notify As NOTIFYICONDATA
  Dim hResult As Long

  'setup the Shell_Notify structure
  pShell_Notify.cbSize = Len(pShell_Notify)
  pShell_Notify.hwnd = hwnd
  pShell_Notify.uID = 0



  ' Remove it from the system tray and catch result
  hResult = Shell_NotifyIcon(NIM_DELETE, pShell_Notify)

  If (hResult) Then
    KillNewMailIcon = True
  Else
    KillNewMailIcon = False
  End If
End Function





'Method 2
'---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Public Sub sbMarkRead()
   Dim Olfolder As Outlook.MAPIFolder
   Dim Olfolder1 As Outlook.MAPIFolder
  ' Dim Olfolder As Outlook.MAPIFolder

   Dim OlItems As Outlook.Items
   Dim OlRecips As Outlook.Recipients
   Dim OlRecip As Outlook.Recipient
   Dim Olapp As Outlook.Application
   Dim Olmapi As Outlook.NameSpace
   Dim OlMail As Outlook.MailItem
   Set Olapp = CreateObject("Outlook.Application")
   Set Olmapi = Olapp.GetNamespace("MAPI")

  'Open the inbox
  Set Olfolder = Olmapi.GetDefaultFolder(olFolderInbox)
  Set OlItems = Olfolder.Items
  'Set up the folders the mails are going to be deposited in
  Set Olfolder1 = Olmapi.Folders("Mailbox - Your Profile").Folders("Your
Folder")

  Do Until OlItems.Count = 0
'Reset the olitems object otherwise new incoming mails and moving mails get
missed
  Set OlItems = Olfolder.Items

  For Each OlMail In OlItems
  If OlMail.UnRead = True Then
      OlMail.UnRead = False    'Mark mail as read
      If InStr(1, OlMail.Subject, "SPAM Message") > 0 Then
          OlMail.Move Olfolder1  'move to folder1
      End If
  End If
  Next OlMail
  Loop
End Sub



'Method 3
'---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
'########################################
'Installation instructions for OutLook 2000:
'  Go to the Tools/Macros/Visual Basic Editor
'  Click on ThisOutlookSession in the project window
'  Replace the source code in the window with the following (adapt any
'  existing code if neccessary)
'
'       You may need to enable macros the first time it runs
'########################################

'Private Sub Application_NewMail()
'    Call SuppressSpamNewMailNotification
'End Sub

'***********************************************
'Author: Rich Alger
'Description: This procedure suppresses the new mail notification any new
mail sent to the folder named 'Spam'
'               The folder 'Spam' should be a sub folder of the Inbox
'   It does this by opening the mail and immediately closing it.
'     This also marks the mail as read
'     Hopefully this does not send a signal to the sender that this E-mail
address is active
'   This keeps the outlook new mail notification from firing.
'     A new mail sound, dialog box and/or system tray icon will not result.
'***********************************************
Private Function SuppressSpamNewMailNotification() As Long
    On Error GoTo ErrHandler

    Dim nsSession As NameSpace
    Dim fldrInbox As MAPIFolder
    Dim fldrSpam As MAPIFolder
    Dim itmMail As MailItem
    Dim insMailInspector As Inspector
    Dim sCriteria As String

    SuppressSpamNewMailNotification = -1

    Set nsSession = ThisOutlookSession.session
    Set fldrInbox = nsSession.GetDefaultFolder(olFolderInbox)
    Set fldrSpam = fldrInbox.Folders("Spam")

    'Establish the criteria for new mail
    sCriteria = "[UnRead]=True"
    Set itmMail = fldrSpam.Items.Find(sCriteria)

    'Determine if the item was found.
    If itmMail Is Nothing Then
        ' fine - no item found
    Else
        Set insMailInspector = itmMail.GetInspector
        insMailInspector.Display
        insMailInspector.Close (olDiscard)
    End If

    SuppressSpamNewMailNotification = 0

CleanUp:
    On Error Resume Next
    Set fldrInbox = Nothing
    Set fldrSpam = Nothing
    Set itmMail = Nothing
    Set insMailInspector = Nothing
    Set nsSession = Nothing

    Exit Function
ErrHandler:
    MsgBox "Error suppressing spam new mail notification. " +
Err.DESCRIPTION, vbOKOnly, "Error " + CStr(Err.Number)
    Resume CleanUp
End Function

From tinanfields at torchlake.com  Sun Nov  9 14:28:50 2003
From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields)
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:28:50 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Migrate Plug-Ins From Netscape to Mozilla?
References: <3FAA41F0.7090907@torchlake.com> <3FAA8281.1030709@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <3FAEA382.3020604@torchlake.com>

Francisco,

Thanks for the reply.  I'm reading through the messages and preparing to 
make the necessary entries.

Versions:  
Firebird 0.7  - - - Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; 
rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 Firebird/0.7
Thunderbird 0.3 (20031013)

Do you get the nightly builds?  Is that why your Thunderbird is 0.4a?

I'll keep you posted.  Thanks again for the response.

Tina

Francisco H Tapia wrote:

> Tina Norris Fields wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Recently, I downloaded the Mozilla Firebird browser and Thunderbird 
>> mail client.  I plan to make the Firebird my default browser, but not 
>> until it recognizes all the nice plug-ins I already have for 
>> Netscape.  What is the trick?  I don't really want to go back and 
>> download the plug-in applications one by one - I've already done that 
>> for my Netscape installation.  Can anyone on this list tell me how to 
>> do this efficiently and effectively?  Thanks.
>>
>> Tina
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>
> IIRC it should just be a matter of coping and pasting the Plugins 
> directory.
> just visited the site and found that they have a registry entry you 
> can add to help w/ the plugins for Mozilla Firebird.
> http://plugindoc.mozdev.org/faqs/phoenixwin.html
>
> btw, Which Version of Firebird and Thunderbird are you using I'm using
>
> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 
> Firebird/0.7
> and
> Mozilla Thunderbird 0.4a (20031103)
>



From my.lists at verizon.net  Mon Nov 10 14:02:16 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:02:16 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Migrate Plug-Ins From Netscape to Mozilla?
In-Reply-To: <3FAEA382.3020604@torchlake.com>
References: <3FAA41F0.7090907@torchlake.com> <3FAA8281.1030709@verizon.net>
	<3FAEA382.3020604@torchlake.com>
Message-ID: <3FAFEEC8.7080404@verizon.net>

Yes, I test the nightly builds for stability and will reply to the 
newsforumn if I encounter problems. (which I hardly ever do).  I did 
notice sometimes the add-ins cause minor problems so I'll remove them 
while testing.

In general what I do is unzip the new build to a new directory test it 
side by side w/ my stable copy of tbird (or firebird).  and then when 
I'm happy, I'll remove the old directory and keep the new one.  The 
majority of the time this is all very straight forward. 

Good luck.


Tina Norris Fields wrote:

> Francisco,
>
> Thanks for the reply.  I'm reading through the messages and preparing 
> to make the necessary entries.
>
> Versions:  Firebird 0.7  - - - Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 
> 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 Firebird/0.7
> Thunderbird 0.3 (20031013)
>
> Do you get the nightly builds?  Is that why your Thunderbird is 0.4a?
>
> I'll keep you posted.  Thanks again for the response.
>
> Tina
>
> Francisco H Tapia wrote:
>
>> Tina Norris Fields wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Recently, I downloaded the Mozilla Firebird browser and Thunderbird 
>>> mail client.  I plan to make the Firebird my default browser, but 
>>> not until it recognizes all the nice plug-ins I already have for 
>>> Netscape.  What is the trick?  I don't really want to go back and 
>>> download the plug-in applications one by one - I've already done 
>>> that for my Netscape installation.  Can anyone on this list tell me 
>>> how to do this efficiently and effectively?  Thanks.
>>>
>>> Tina
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> IIRC it should just be a matter of coping and pasting the Plugins 
>> directory.
>> just visited the site and found that they have a registry entry you 
>> can add to help w/ the plugins for Mozilla Firebird.
>> http://plugindoc.mozdev.org/faqs/phoenixwin.html
>>
>> btw, Which Version of Firebird and Thunderbird are you using I'm using
>>
>> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) 
>> Gecko/20031007 Firebird/0.7
>> and
>> Mozilla Thunderbird 0.4a (20031103)
>


-- 
-Francisco



From garykjos at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 10 15:17:01 2003
From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:17:01 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [AccessD] OT: registry backup
Message-ID: <BAY2-F22VDqL4e0KAO60000ec1c@hotmail.com>

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;322755&Product=win2000

didn't see any reference to automatic backup though....

Gary Kjos
garykjos at hotmail.com





>From: "John Colby" <jcolby at colbyconsulting.com>
>Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem 
>solving<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
>To: "AccessD" <AccessD at databaseadvisors.com>
>Subject: [AccessD] OT: registry backup
>Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:46:08 -0500
>
>Does anyone know if the registry is backed up automatically by Windows?  
>Can
>it be?
>
>I had a power failure this morning.  I have a UPS for each computer,
>connected by serial port and they reported that they were shutting down
>correctly, however when I came back up my main dev machine is pretty badly
>mangled.  Had to go into safe mode and get rid of some of the start up 
>stuff
>to even get loaded, now just strange things - Access asks me if I want to
>register my copy, the desktop is totally re-arranged, MS Messenger looks
>different, Norton utilities won't run at all, Norton defrag says it's in a
>bizarre location etc.
>
>Sounds like a registry problem to me.
>
>So... is there a backup somewhere?  If not, why not?
>
>John W. Colby
>www.colbyconsulting.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>AccessD mailing list
>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_________________________________________________________________
Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95.  
https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)


From bheid at appdevgrp.com  Tue Nov 11 12:58:48 2003
From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:58:48 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Access XP controls
In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3069588E@ADGSERVER>
Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BAFE8@ADGSERVER>

Hi all,

Was wanting to update the look of our Acc97 app in AccXP.  What controls
come with Office XP that do not natively show up in AccXP?  By that I mean
are there listviews, treeviews, etc that I can access from the other tools
button?

Our client wants only controls that come with office so that we won't run
into issues of another control not getting installed properly.

TIA,
Bobby


From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Tue Nov 11 13:10:51 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:10:51 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Access XP controls
In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BAFE8@ADGSERVER>
References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3069588E@ADGSERVER>
Message-ID: <3FB0EDEB.3597.1852830@localhost>

On 11 Nov 2003 at 13:58, Bobby Heid wrote:

> Was wanting to update the look of our Acc97 app in AccXP.  What
> controls come with Office XP that do not natively show up in AccXP? 
> By that I mean are there listviews, treeviews, etc that I can access
> from the other tools button?
> 
> Our client wants only controls that come with office so that we won't
> run into issues of another control not getting installed properly.

I don't have AXp, so I can't answer, but you will probably get a 
better response on AccessD.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Normal people worry me.



From andy at minstersystems.co.uk  Tue Nov 11 13:25:00 2003
From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:25:00 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Access XP controls
In-Reply-To: <3FB0EDEB.3597.1852830@localhost>
Message-ID: <00ae01c3a889$83954690$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>

:-))
Bobby, we're trying to encourage non-Access questions to be aired here on
the tech list because members who only want Access stuff get irritated by
the other stuff. Your question though is entirely Access-related so put it
on Accessd cos there are a lot more people over there. I wonder if our
exhortations to use the tech list have gone too far. <g>

Andy Lacey
http://www.minstersystems.co.uk 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of 
> Bryan Carbonnell
> Sent: 11 November 2003 19:11
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Access XP controls
> 
> 
> On 11 Nov 2003 at 13:58, Bobby Heid wrote:
> 
> > Was wanting to update the look of our Acc97 app in AccXP.  What 
> > controls come with Office XP that do not natively show up 
> in AccXP? By 
> > that I mean are there listviews, treeviews, etc that I can 
> access from 
> > the other tools button?
> > 
> > Our client wants only controls that come with office so 
> that we won't 
> > run into issues of another control not getting installed properly.
> 
> I don't have AXp, so I can't answer, but you will probably get a 
> better response on AccessD.
> 
> --
> Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
> Normal people worry me.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/d> ba-tech
> 
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 



From bheid at appdevgrp.com  Wed Nov 12 08:18:27 2003
From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:18:27 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Access XP controls
In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BAFE8@ADGSERVER>
Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BAFEB@ADGSERVER>

Sent this yesterday around 2:00pm EST and it do not show up.  Sorry if this
duplicates.

Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 1:59 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Access XP controls


Hi all,

Was wanting to update the look of our Acc97 app in AccXP.  What controls
come with Office XP that do not natively show up in AccXP?  By that I mean
are there listviews, treeviews, etc that I can access from the other tools
button?

Our client wants only controls that come with office so that we won't run
into issues of another control not getting installed properly.

TIA,
Bobby


From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Nov 16 15:25:06 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:25:06 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] strip attachments to stored email.
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPEEGMFLAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

Does anyone have a utility that can strip attachments to email that is
stored in the outlook pst?  I keep all my client emails, both sent and
received ofr historical and "proof" purposes.  I regularly attach zipped
databases and receive zipped BEs as well.  As a result my pst is approaching
1gb right now, waaaay to big.

John W. Colby



From kathryn at bassett.net  Sun Nov 16 19:07:53 2003
From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:07:53 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] strip attachments to stored email.
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPEEGMFLAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIKEOGHJAB.kathryn@bassett.net>

I just open the message and single click on the attachment and hit delete. Then when you close the message, it asks if you want to save the changes, and say yes. BTW, I usually also choose Edit > Edit Message, then Format > Plain Text, as well. That way the message is plain text which also takes less room (not to mention, usually easier to read). I hate it when I get mail that was generated with Word, as I can't change it to plain text. I know, you didn't ask that, but since you want to save room, saving as plain text will help as well.

--
Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
"Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
kathryn at bassett.net
http://bassett.net  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby
> Sent: 16 Nov 2003 1:25:PM
> To: DBA - Tech
> Subject: [dba-Tech] strip attachments to stored email.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a utility that can strip attachments to email that is
> stored in the outlook pst?  I keep all my client emails, both sent and
> received ofr historical and "proof" purposes.  I regularly attach zipped
> databases and receive zipped BEs as well.  As a result my pst is approaching
> 1gb right now, waaaay to big.
> 
> John W. Colby
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Nov 16 19:23:27 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 20:23:27 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] strip attachments to stored email.
In-Reply-To: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIKEOGHJAB.kathryn@bassett.net>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPGEHDFLAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

Kathryn,

Thanks for that but I already have about 10,000 or so emails in my pst.  I
can't see myself doing what you suggest to 10,000 emails anytime in the next
century.

I am looking for a utility (I'll write my own if necessary) that will allow
me to strip off the attachments to all emails already in my pst, preferably
only those before a certain date (already x days / months old).

It seems like a reasonable thing to do so I thought someone might already
know of one.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn
Bassett
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 8:08 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] strip attachments to stored email.


I just open the message and single click on the attachment and hit delete.
Then when you close the message, it asks if you want to save the changes,
and say yes. BTW, I usually also choose Edit > Edit Message, then Format >
Plain Text, as well. That way the message is plain text which also takes
less room (not to mention, usually easier to read). I hate it when I get
mail that was generated with Word, as I can't change it to plain text. I
know, you didn't ask that, but since you want to save room, saving as plain
text will help as well.

--
Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
"Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
kathryn at bassett.net
http://bassett.net

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby
> Sent: 16 Nov 2003 1:25:PM
> To: DBA - Tech
> Subject: [dba-Tech] strip attachments to stored email.
>
>
> Does anyone have a utility that can strip attachments to email that is
> stored in the outlook pst?  I keep all my client emails, both sent and
> received ofr historical and "proof" purposes.  I regularly attach zipped
> databases and receive zipped BEs as well.  As a result my pst is
approaching
> 1gb right now, waaaay to big.
>
> John W. Colby
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From DBCfour at aol.com  Sun Nov 16 21:42:29 2003
From: DBCfour at aol.com (DBCfour at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:42:29 EST
Subject: [dba-Tech] strip attachments to stored email.
Message-ID: <142.1ca25247.2ce99da5@aol.com>


Maybe something here? http://www.slipstick.com/addins/housekeeping.htm

Donna

In a message dated 11/16/2003 8:25:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jcolby at colbyconsulting.com writes:


> Thanks for that but I already have about 10,000 or so emails in my pst.  I
> can't see myself doing what you suggest to 10,000 emails anytime in the next
> century.
> 
> I am looking for a utility (I'll write my own if necessary) that will allow
> me to strip off the attachments to all emails already in my pst, preferably
> only those before a certain date (already x days / months old).
> 
> It seems like a reasonable thing to do so I thought someone might already
> know of one.
> 


From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Mon Nov 17 01:36:32 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:36:32 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] strip attachments to stored email.
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF724D@stekelbes.ithelps.local>

Hi John

I have an archiving system that archives all incoming mails mostly with
attachements.
Also for reaons of proof.
But I safe the mail entirely to disk and not only the attachement.
I need the data in the mail to.
I save each message as a .msg file so I can open it later with outlook
in it's original state (my clients also can open these files from the
web).
Each .msg file get named by the database.
You can use NTFS compression to compress this archive directory.

Because the file is still save in a mime format it will be bigger than a
seperate excel (the attachement) file but NTFS compression does a good
job on mime'd files.

And for me the message must be in it's original state, the body contains
important information to.



Erwin
 


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens John W. Colby
Verzonden: zondag 16 november 2003 22:25
Aan: DBA - Tech
Onderwerp: [dba-Tech] strip attachments to stored email.


Does anyone have a utility that can strip attachments to email that is
stored in the outlook pst?  I keep all my client emails, both sent and
received ofr historical and "proof" purposes.  I regularly attach zipped
databases and receive zipped BEs as well.  As a result my pst is
approaching 1gb right now, waaaay to big.

John W. Colby


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From john at winhaven.net  Mon Nov 17 08:46:56 2003
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:46:56 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] strip attachments to stored email.
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPEEGMFLAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLAKMHEDAKJKENHKIMEBKENAA.john@winhaven.net>

JC,
I remember looking at a utility that did this about a year ago. It cost
money though so I skipped it and I didn't download it. Sorry but I just
can't find any references to it now and I have no idea where I found it. I
would suggest Microsoft's Outlook site - where they list third party add-ins
(used to anyway).

JB

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby
> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 3:25 PM
> To: DBA - Tech
> Subject: [dba-Tech] strip attachments to stored email.
>
>
> Does anyone have a utility that can strip attachments to email that is
> stored in the outlook pst?  I keep all my client emails, both sent and
> received ofr historical and "proof" purposes.  I regularly attach zipped
> databases and receive zipped BEs as well.  As a result my pst is
> approaching
> 1gb right now, waaaay to big.
>
> John W. Colby
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>



From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com  Mon Nov 17 08:57:11 2003
From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News))
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:57:11 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] strip attachments to stored email.
Message-ID: <D3E2A213B8F45B4DAC92EB5FD98ED1EF010EB927@nnse14.nns.com>

I second this: http://www.slipstick.com/addins/housekeeping.htm.  Roughly
two years ago a co-worker needed such a utility and slipstick was where I
pointed him.  Sorry, but I do not recall which utility was chosen, neither
do I recall any feedback.


Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: DBCfour at aol.com [mailto:DBCfour at aol.com] 
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 10:42 PM
To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] strip attachments to stored email.



Maybe something here? http://www.slipstick.com/addins/housekeeping.htm

Donna

In a message dated 11/16/2003 8:25:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jcolby at colbyconsulting.com writes:


> Thanks for that but I already have about 10,000 or so emails in my 
> pst.  I can't see myself doing what you suggest to 10,000 emails 
> anytime in the next century.
> 
> I am looking for a utility (I'll write my own if necessary) that will 
> allow me to strip off the attachments to all emails already in my pst, 
> preferably only those before a certain date (already x days / months 
> old).
> 
> It seems like a reasonable thing to do so I thought someone might 
> already know of one.
> 

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From my.lists at verizon.net  Mon Nov 17 16:12:05 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:12:05 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
Message-ID: <3FB947B5.2030709@verizon.net>

For those still doing windows update, and only visiting for CRITICAL 
updates for IE, here is something to consider....
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12698

-- 
-Francisco



From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Nov 17 16:15:15 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:15:15 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FB947B5.2030709@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMEJLFLAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

So that's what's causing it!  

8-(

John W. Colby 
www.ColbyConsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H
Tapia
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:12 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE


For those still doing windows update, and only visiting for CRITICAL 
updates for IE, here is something to consider....
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12698

-- 
-Francisco


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From my.lists at verizon.net  Mon Nov 17 16:35:18 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:35:18 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMEJLFLAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMEJLFLAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <3FB94D26.8060903@verizon.net>

http://texturizer.net/firebird/index.html

Load it, Try it... and say good bye to IE :)

-- 
-Francisco


John W. Colby wrote:

>So that's what's causing it!  
>
>8-(
>
>John W. Colby 
>www.ColbyConsulting.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H
>Tapia
>Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:12 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
>
>
>For those still doing windows update, and only visiting for CRITICAL 
>updates for IE, here is something to consider....
>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12698
>
>  
>



From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Nov 17 17:04:04 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:04:04 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FB94D26.8060903@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPKEJNFLAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

LOL.  I shoulda known this was a product pitch.

John W. Colby 
www.ColbyConsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H
Tapia
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:35 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE


http://texturizer.net/firebird/index.html

Load it, Try it... and say good bye to IE :)

-- 
-Francisco


John W. Colby wrote:

>So that's what's causing it!  
>
>8-(
>
>John W. Colby 
>www.ColbyConsulting.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H
>Tapia
>Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:12 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
>
>
>For those still doing windows update, and only visiting for CRITICAL 
>updates for IE, here is something to consider....
>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12698
>
>  
>


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Mon Nov 17 17:24:04 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:24:04 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FB94D26.8060903@verizon.net>
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMEJLFLAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <3FB91244.1076.1321A0@localhost>

On 17 Nov 2003 at 14:35, Francisco H Tapia wrote:

> http://texturizer.net/firebird/index.html
> 
> Load it, Try it... and say good bye to IE :)

I'm a new convert. I love it. I love the ability to use alternative 
CSS on web pages.

That and Pegasus Mail. An unbeatable combo!!

No I haven't tried Thunderbird Francisco. It'll take a LOT for me to 
try a new e-mail client :-)

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Stupid questions are better than stupid mistakes. - Japanese proverb



From my.lists at verizon.net  Mon Nov 17 18:50:35 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:50:35 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FB91244.1076.1321A0@localhost>
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMEJLFLAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
	<3FB91244.1076.1321A0@localhost>
Message-ID: <3FB96CDB.7090607@verizon.net>

Well I'm not out to convert everyone to Thunderbird, but I do like to 
pitch it to the LookOut and Express LookOut users ;).  It has been many  
moons since I've used pegasus mail, even before I switched to 
thunderbird I couldn't find their link via google so I gave up.  One 
thing is for sure, I totatly love the junk mail filter in Thunderbird.  
I'm not sure if pegasus has this or not.

I'm glad you like Firebird.  For some of the more adventurous types you 
can go w/ the "Burning Edge" Firebird releases. 
http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/

Some must haves by the way are the Tab extentions and the User Agent 
String extention.
What do these things do?, well it improves on the already cool tab 
feature in Firebird, yes I relalize this sounds like a pitch but, I like 
being able to duplicate a page so I can follow a link on one, or the 
ability to auto-reload feature useful in ebay... what other features are 
cool? there's a quick shearch bar (kinda like the google bar but w/o 
spyware) you can search yahoo, google, alltheweb,ebay, dictionary.com, 
websters, thesaurus.com pricewatch and the imdb to name a few.  What 
this does for you is increase your productivity so that you don't have 
to GO visit these sites in order to run a quick search. :D. 

sales pitch is over.. yes I'm very happy w/ firebird... it is afterall 
my default browser on my work AND home computer.

-- 
-Francisco


Bryan Carbonnell wrote:

>On 17 Nov 2003 at 14:35, Francisco H Tapia wrote:
>
>  
>
>>http://texturizer.net/firebird/index.html
>>
>>Load it, Try it... and say good bye to IE :)
>>    
>>
>
>I'm a new convert. I love it. I love the ability to use alternative 
>CSS on web pages.
>
>That and Pegasus Mail. An unbeatable combo!!
>
>No I haven't tried Thunderbird Francisco. It'll take a LOT for me to 
>try a new e-mail client :-)
>
>  
>



From my.lists at verizon.net  Mon Nov 17 18:54:10 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:54:10 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPKEJNFLAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPKEJNFLAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <3FB96DB2.40809@verizon.net>

It wasn't ment to be a sales pitch John :D, I'm just a happy user of Firebird, I'm tired of the pages that won't load cuz the browser had some error, or that some pages give out scripting errors.  I'm tierd of all of it.  And since I've moved my pages load quicker too.  I've been using IE when Netscape 4.6 bombed my computer, I haven't moved from IE until this year when I discovered Firebird.  I can't say enough good things about it... I've got my browser "tweaked" so that it also doesn't dispaly the ad banners on pages you visit (a must in my book) and the browser it self kills popups automatically, no additional tweaking required.

-- 
-Francisco


John W. Colby wrote:

>LOL.  I shoulda known this was a product pitch.
>
>John W. Colby 
>www.ColbyConsulting.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H
>Tapia
>Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:35 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
>
>
>http://texturizer.net/firebird/index.html
>
>Load it, Try it... and say good bye to IE :)
>
>  
>



From bchacc at san.rr.com  Mon Nov 17 18:54:52 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:54:52 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMEJLFLAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
	<3FB94D26.8060903@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <01b501c3ad6e$942ef8e0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

Loaded it, ran it.  Looks functional.  Why is it better than IE?

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Francisco H Tapia" <my.lists at verizon.net>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE


> http://texturizer.net/firebird/index.html
>
> Load it, Try it... and say good bye to IE :)
>
> -- 
> -Francisco
>
>
> John W. Colby wrote:
>
> >So that's what's causing it!
> >
> >8-(
> >
> >John W. Colby
> >www.ColbyConsulting.com
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H
> >Tapia
> >Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:12 PM
> >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> >Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
> >
> >
> >For those still doing windows update, and only visiting for CRITICAL
> >updates for IE, here is something to consider....
> >http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12698
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Mon Nov 17 19:47:40 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:47:40 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FB96CDB.7090607@verizon.net>
References: <3FB91244.1076.1321A0@localhost>
Message-ID: <3FB933EC.20170.969C10@localhost>

On 17 Nov 2003 at 16:50, Francisco H Tapia wrote:

> Well I'm not out to convert everyone to Thunderbird, but I do like to
> pitch it to the LookOut and Express LookOut users ;).  It has been

Hey, anything is better than LookOut and LookOut Express :-))

> many  moons since I've used pegasus mail, even before I switched to
> thunderbird I couldn't find their link via google so I gave up.  One

http://www.pmail.com

> thing is for sure, I totatly love the junk mail filter in Thunderbird.
>  I'm not sure if pegasus has this or not.

It doesn't have bayseian filtering, but AFAIC it has the best rules 
based filtering of any e-mail client on the market. I can filter by 
just about anything that you can think of. I can combine rules. I can 
filter when I open a folder, a different set of rules when I close 
the folder. A different set for new mail. Yet a different set for e-
mail I send out. I can filter on the server, if I wanted to.I could 
go on and on about the filtering of Pegasus, but I'll try not to. Oh 
yea, I just did :-) Oh well.

> sales pitch is over.. yes I'm very happy w/ firebird... it is afterall
> my default browser on my work AND home computer.

Ditto. The tabed browser is what I REALLY like. I can have my web 
mail interface up and my company's intranet up at the same time, and 
no one knows I'm reading personal e-mail :-))

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
If flying is so safe, why do they call the airport the terminal?



From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Mon Nov 17 19:47:42 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:47:42 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <01b501c3ad6e$942ef8e0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <3FB933EE.13821.96A14E@localhost>

On 17 Nov 2003 at 16:54, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote:

> Loaded it, ran it.  Looks functional.  Why is it better than IE?

Where to start?

Faster loading.
Faster rendering of pages
More standards compliant.
Safer. Doesn't have all the exploits possible that IE does.
Better design. (Tabbed browsing)

Those are my top reasons.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
I've learned....
That to ignore the facts does not change the facts.



From martyconnelly at shaw.ca  Mon Nov 17 22:42:42 2003
From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:42:42 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
References: <3FB933EE.13821.96A14E@localhost>
Message-ID: <3FB9A342.9030807@shaw.ca>

How does it handle xml pages?

Bryan Carbonnell wrote:

>On 17 Nov 2003 at 16:54, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Loaded it, ran it.  Looks functional.  Why is it better than IE?
>>    
>>
>
>Where to start?
>
>Faster loading.
>Faster rendering of pages
>More standards compliant.
>Safer. Doesn't have all the exploits possible that IE does.
>Better design. (Tabbed browsing)
>
>Those are my top reasons.
>
>--
>Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
>I've learned....
>That to ignore the facts does not change the facts.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>  
>

-- 
Marty Connelly
Victoria, B.C.
Canada




From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Mon Nov 17 22:47:42 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:47:42 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FB9A342.9030807@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3FB95E1E.3098.13B6D00@localhost>

On 17 Nov 2003 at 20:42, MartyConnelly wrote:

> How does it handle xml pages?

Never tried. So I have no idea.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
'The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground 
and miss.' - HHGTG



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Nov 18 00:37:52 2003
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:37:52 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FB933EC.20170.969C10@localhost>
References: <3FB96CDB.7090607@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <3FBA4AE0.15131.591C9B@localhost>

On 17 Nov 2003 at 20:47, Bryan Carbonnell wrote:


> 
> http://www.pmail.com
> 
> > thing is for sure, I totatly love the junk mail filter in Thunderbird.
> >  I'm not sure if pegasus has this or not.
> 
> It doesn't have bayseian filtering, but AFAIC it has the best rules 

It integrates very well with K9 (a freeware Bayesian filter) however.
Since I starting using K9, I've dropped all of my spam filtering 
rules in Pegasus and just have a single rule - if it's been tagged by 
K9, move it directly to the spam folder.


 
-- 
Lexacorp Ltd
http://www.lexacorp.com.pg
Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System 
Support.




From my.lists at verizon.net  Tue Nov 18 03:16:17 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:16:17 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <01b501c3ad6e$942ef8e0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMEJLFLAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
	<3FB94D26.8060903@verizon.net> <01b501c3ad6e$942ef8e0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <3FB9E361.1090207@verizon.net>

For starters, *Security* I mean if that "IS" a priority.

Next... automatic (non-third-party) popup killer blocking.
Tho it's not an automatic default, I added the scripting (copy & paste) 
needed for disabling ad-banners in web pages.

before the scripting, the browser loaded fast.  In fact I notice that it 
loads in many cases faster than IE.  After the adjustment w/ the no 
ad-banners, it loads even faster (pages) than IE.

Next, Tab browsing.  Default tab browsing is awesome, kinda like in 
Opera if you've ever used that.  The neat feature he is you can open 
multiple tabs w/ difrent content.... This is handy if you ever wanted to 
open another page (follow a link) and keep your old page open w/o 
opening another instance of the browser.  Let's say ebay, you can open 
multiple items but keep the initial search page.

Enhance that Tab Browsing w/ tab extentions and now you're really 
cooking :D.  You can UNDO a closed tab, you can save your web session. 
Say you get called into a meeting, you can close your browser save the 
session and return to it w/o having to bookmark the page you were 
reading. Additionally you can "duplicate" pages so you can follow 
diffrent links or what ever other reason you'd want to have a duplicate 
of a page.

And the most awesome feature I like... it's got the best compatibility 
than any other browser and yup I'll throw in IE in there too.  I'm 
plauged w/ a ton of ActiveX scripting errors when I open IE. of course 
it depends on what page I visit but I'll get these errors even when I 
visit MS content.  To that I say phoey... I use Firebird cuz it'll 
render "Just about any page" out there.  Sure some don't render, but 
that's a rare occasion, and usually it depends on some mis-written tag. 
  But you hardly run into that problem...

The newest plugin faq setup allows your firebird setup (registry keys) 
to be updated to recognize real, quicktime and flash (to name a few) so 
it's not like you have to do a-lot of setup. and yes it's still RC I'm 
using Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6b) 
Gecko/20031109 Firebird/0.7+ (aebrahim)
But I like to keep up w/ the latest and the greatest cuz there really is 
nothing wrong w/ .6

lastly I liked how all my favorites were easily imported to firebird. 
:)  and while I Don't like that the favorites are now centerilly 
organized in firebird, I do like easily getting to my book marks via the 
customizable toolbar (yes just like in IE).

if you like skins for your browser to make it look more XPish just load 
that particular skin :D.

You really don't have to use it Rocky, but I do think that if you give 
it a chance you will be impressed, and you might acctually say good bye 
to IE. and you'll probably get a good chuckle the next time you see 
another IE security vulnerability patch :). (like I did today).




-- 
-Francisco


Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:
> Loaded it, ran it.  Looks functional.  Why is it better than IE?
> 
> Rocky
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Francisco H Tapia" <my.lists at verizon.net>
> To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
> <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 2:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
> 
> 
> 
>>http://texturizer.net/firebird/index.html
>>
>>Load it, Try it... and say good bye to IE :)
>>
>>-- 
>>-Francisco
>>
>>
>>John W. Colby wrote:
>>
>>
>>>So that's what's causing it!
>>>
>>>8-(
>>>
>>>John W. Colby
>>>www.ColbyConsulting.com
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H
>>>Tapia
>>>Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:12 PM
>>>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>>Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
>>>
>>>
>>>For those still doing windows update, and only visiting for CRITICAL
>>>updates for IE, here is something to consider....
>>>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12698
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>



From my.lists at verizon.net  Tue Nov 18 03:22:04 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:22:04 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FB9A342.9030807@shaw.ca>
References: <3FB933EE.13821.96A14E@localhost> <3FB9A342.9030807@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3FB9E4BC.30406@verizon.net>

Give me an example and I'll let you know.

MartyConnelly wrote:

> How does it handle xml pages?
> 
> Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
> 
>> On 17 Nov 2003 at 16:54, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>> Loaded it, ran it.  Looks functional.  Why is it better than IE?
>>>   
>>
>>
>> Where to start?
>>
>> Faster loading.
>> Faster rendering of pages
>> More standards compliant.
>> Safer. Doesn't have all the exploits possible that IE does.
>> Better design. (Tabbed browsing)
>>
>> Those are my top reasons.
>>
>> -- 
>> Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
>> I've learned....
>> That to ignore the facts does not change the facts.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>  
>>
> 


-- 
-Francisco


From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Tue Nov 18 06:43:51 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:43:51 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <21051106913747011923d0567@global.net.pg>
References: <3FB933EC.20170.969C10@localhost>
Message-ID: <3FB9CDB7.10707.1F87B9@localhost>

On 18 Nov 2003 at 16:37, Stuart McLachlan wrote:

> On 17 Nov 2003 at 20:47, Bryan Carbonnell wrote:

> > http://www.pmail.com
> > 
> > > thing is for sure, I totatly love the junk mail filter in
> > > Thunderbird.
> > >  I'm not sure if pegasus has this or not.
> > 
> > It doesn't have bayseian filtering, but AFAIC it has the best rules 
> 
> It integrates very well with K9 (a freeware Bayesian filter) however.
> Since I starting using K9, I've dropped all of my spam filtering rules
> in Pegasus and just have a single rule - if it's been tagged by K9,
> move it directly to the spam folder.

Yea. That's true. It's what I do to. It integrates so well I forgot 
it was even installed :-))

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Normal people worry me.



From Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk  Tue Nov 18 08:21:28 2003
From: Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk (Jon Tydda)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:21:28 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows messenger
Message-ID: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449E4B@ALCUXB>

Does anyone know how I can disable Windows (msn?) Messenger in Windows XP
Bloody thing is installed on a brand new pc, and loads at sratup and I can't
find it anywhere.

It's blocked by the firewall, but I'm more concerned with not loading
unnecessary programs, to save memory leaks...


Jon


The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject
to the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
Registered in England and Wales No 4057291

From steve.grant at stgsolutions.com  Tue Nov 18 08:39:13 2003
From: steve.grant at stgsolutions.com (Steve Grant)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:39:13 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows messenger
In-Reply-To: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449E4B@ALCUXB>
Message-ID: <000e01c3ade1$bdac2c10$9301110a@ql130>

Hi Jon,
Have a look at these 2 links.

http://www.petri.co.il/disable_windows_messenger.htm
http://www.winguides.com/registry/display.php/1266/


Steve

-----Message d'origine-----
De?: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] De la part de Jon Tydda
Envoy??: 18 novembre 2003 09:21
??: Dba-Tech (E-mail)
Objet?: [dba-Tech] Windows messenger

Does anyone know how I can disable Windows (msn?) Messenger in Windows XP
Bloody thing is installed on a brand new pc, and loads at sratup and I can't
find it anywhere.

It's blocked by the firewall, but I'm more concerned with not loading
unnecessary programs, to save memory leaks...


Jon


The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject
to the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
Registered in England and Wales No 4057291
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From garykjos at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 18 08:40:28 2003
From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:40:28 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows messenger
Message-ID: <BAY2-F45WEsBk31TZ1400014059@hotmail.com>

http://www.grc.com/stm/shootthemessenger.htm



Gary Kjos
garykjos at hotmail.com





>From: Jon Tydda <Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk>
>Reply-To: Discussion of Hardware and Software 
>issues<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
>To: "Dba-Tech (E-mail)" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
>Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows messenger
>Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:21:28 -0000
>
>Does anyone know how I can disable Windows (msn?) Messenger in Windows XP
>Bloody thing is installed on a brand new pc, and loads at sratup and I 
>can't
>find it anywhere.
>
>It's blocked by the firewall, but I'm more concerned with not loading
>unnecessary programs, to save memory leaks...
>
>
>Jon
>
>
>The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
>privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject
>to the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
>ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
>Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
>Registered in England and Wales No 4057291
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_________________________________________________________________
Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over 
limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es


From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Tue Nov 18 08:41:51 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:41:51 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows messenger
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF725E@stekelbes.ithelps.local>


Regedit

HKEY_Current_User\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Currentversion\run
(Yes it is the windows key even when having NT/2K/XP)

You find a value MsnMsgr or msmmsgr or something depending on the
Messenger version you have (Windows or MSN mesenger)

Remove this or both keys.

Be carefull what you do in the registry = dangerous!!!

Erwin



-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 3:21 PM
To: Dba-Tech (E-mail)
Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows messenger


Does anyone know how I can disable Windows (msn?) Messenger in Windows
XP Bloody thing is installed on a brand new pc, and loads at sratup and
I can't find it anywhere.

It's blocked by the firewall, but I'm more concerned with not loading
unnecessary programs, to save memory leaks...


Jon


The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject
to the legal notice available on request from :
webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division
of ALcontrol UK Limited. Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill
Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ. Registered in England and Wales No 4057291
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk  Tue Nov 18 08:46:34 2003
From: Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk (Jon Tydda)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:46:34 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows messenger
Message-ID: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449E4C@ALCUXB>

Thanks Steve, the GPedit one worked fine.


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Grant [mailto:steve.grant at stgsolutions.com]
Sent: 18 November 2003 14:39
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: RE : [dba-Tech] Windows messenger


Hi Jon,
Have a look at these 2 links.

http://www.petri.co.il/disable_windows_messenger.htm
http://www.winguides.com/registry/display.php/1266/


Steve

-----Message d'origine-----
De?: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] De la part de Jon Tydda
Envoy??: 18 novembre 2003 09:21
??: Dba-Tech (E-mail)
Objet?: [dba-Tech] Windows messenger

Does anyone know how I can disable Windows (msn?) Messenger in Windows XP
Bloody thing is installed on a brand new pc, and loads at sratup and I can't
find it anywhere.

It's blocked by the firewall, but I'm more concerned with not loading
unnecessary programs, to save memory leaks...


Jon


The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject
to the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
Registered in England and Wales No 4057291
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject
to the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
Registered in England and Wales No 4057291

From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Tue Nov 18 08:55:48 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:55:48 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Small Business Server 2003
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF725F@stekelbes.ithelps.local>

Hi
 
Just received my Action Pack with SBS 2003.
 
Has anyone of you some practical experiences with SBS 2003?
Is it any good/worth it compared to SBS 2000?
 
How does the upgrade from SBS 2000 or even from SBS 4,5 go? Does it
upgrade smoothly?
 
 

 

Erwin Craps

Zaakvoerder 

www.ithelps.be/jonathan

 

This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the
intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or
reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal
offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to
the sender.

IT Helps - I.T. Help Center  ***  Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg

www.ithelps.be <http://www.ithelps.be/>   *  www.boxoffice.be
<http://www.boxoffice.be/>   *  www.stadleuven.be
<http://www.stadleuven.be/> 

IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 **  3000 Leuven

IT Helps  *  Phone: +32 16 296 404  *  Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail:
Info at ithelps.be 

Box Office **  Fax: +32 16 296 406 **  Box Office E-mail:
Staff at boxoffice.be <mailto:figures at boxoffice.be> 

 

From bchacc at san.rr.com  Tue Nov 18 10:37:19 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:37:19 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMEJLFLAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
	<3FB94D26.8060903@verizon.net> <01b501c3ad6e$942ef8e0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
	<3FB9E361.1090207@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <007b01c3adf2$3c4a77b0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

F:

Thanks for the rundown.  I did load it on machine #2 and it looked quite
good.  SO maybe I'll go over and also load Pegasus and K9.  Do you know if
you can you import your address book from OE to K9?

R

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Francisco H Tapia" <my.lists at verizon.net>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE


> For starters, *Security* I mean if that "IS" a priority.
>
> Next... automatic (non-third-party) popup killer blocking.
> Tho it's not an automatic default, I added the scripting (copy & paste)
> needed for disabling ad-banners in web pages.
>
> before the scripting, the browser loaded fast.  In fact I notice that it
> loads in many cases faster than IE.  After the adjustment w/ the no
> ad-banners, it loads even faster (pages) than IE.
>
> Next, Tab browsing.  Default tab browsing is awesome, kinda like in
> Opera if you've ever used that.  The neat feature he is you can open
> multiple tabs w/ difrent content.... This is handy if you ever wanted to
> open another page (follow a link) and keep your old page open w/o
> opening another instance of the browser.  Let's say ebay, you can open
> multiple items but keep the initial search page.
>
> Enhance that Tab Browsing w/ tab extentions and now you're really
> cooking :D.  You can UNDO a closed tab, you can save your web session.
> Say you get called into a meeting, you can close your browser save the
> session and return to it w/o having to bookmark the page you were
> reading. Additionally you can "duplicate" pages so you can follow
> diffrent links or what ever other reason you'd want to have a duplicate
> of a page.
>
> And the most awesome feature I like... it's got the best compatibility
> than any other browser and yup I'll throw in IE in there too.  I'm
> plauged w/ a ton of ActiveX scripting errors when I open IE. of course
> it depends on what page I visit but I'll get these errors even when I
> visit MS content.  To that I say phoey... I use Firebird cuz it'll
> render "Just about any page" out there.  Sure some don't render, but
> that's a rare occasion, and usually it depends on some mis-written tag.
>   But you hardly run into that problem...
>
> The newest plugin faq setup allows your firebird setup (registry keys)
> to be updated to recognize real, quicktime and flash (to name a few) so
> it's not like you have to do a-lot of setup. and yes it's still RC I'm
> using Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6b)
> Gecko/20031109 Firebird/0.7+ (aebrahim)
> But I like to keep up w/ the latest and the greatest cuz there really is
> nothing wrong w/ .6
>
> lastly I liked how all my favorites were easily imported to firebird.
> :)  and while I Don't like that the favorites are now centerilly
> organized in firebird, I do like easily getting to my book marks via the
> customizable toolbar (yes just like in IE).
>
> if you like skins for your browser to make it look more XPish just load
> that particular skin :D.
>
> You really don't have to use it Rocky, but I do think that if you give
> it a chance you will be impressed, and you might acctually say good bye
> to IE. and you'll probably get a good chuckle the next time you see
> another IE security vulnerability patch :). (like I did today).
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> -Francisco
>
>
> Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:
> > Loaded it, ran it.  Looks functional.  Why is it better than IE?
> >
> > Rocky
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Francisco H Tapia" <my.lists at verizon.net>
> > To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
> > <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 2:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
> >
> >
> >
> >>http://texturizer.net/firebird/index.html
> >>
> >>Load it, Try it... and say good bye to IE :)
> >>
> >>-- 
> >>-Francisco
> >>
> >>
> >>John W. Colby wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>So that's what's causing it!
> >>>
> >>>8-(
> >>>
> >>>John W. Colby
> >>>www.ColbyConsulting.com
> >>>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> >>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H
> >>>Tapia
> >>>Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:12 PM
> >>>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> >>>Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>For those still doing windows update, and only visiting for CRITICAL
> >>>updates for IE, here is something to consider....
> >>>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12698
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From bchacc at san.rr.com  Tue Nov 18 10:38:13 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:38:13 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows messenger
References: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449E4B@ALCUXB>
Message-ID: <008501c3adf2$5c947570$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

Jon:

http://www.grc.com/stm/ShootTheMessenger.htm

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Tydda" <Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk>
To: "Dba-Tech (E-mail)" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 6:21 AM
Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows messenger


> Does anyone know how I can disable Windows (msn?) Messenger in Windows XP
> Bloody thing is installed on a brand new pc, and loads at sratup and I
can't
> find it anywhere.
>
> It's blocked by the firewall, but I'm more concerned with not loading
> unnecessary programs, to save memory leaks...
>
>
> Jon
>
>
> The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
> privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject
> to the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
> ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
> Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
> Registered in England and Wales No 4057291
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Tue Nov 18 10:49:28 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:49:28 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <007b01c3adf2$3c4a77b0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <3FBA0748.1847.1006563@localhost>

On 18 Nov 2003 at 8:37, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote:

> Thanks for the rundown.  I did load it on machine #2 and it looked
> quite good.  SO maybe I'll go over and also load Pegasus and K9.  Do
> you know if you can you import your address book from OE to K9?

Is the question, can you get your OE address book into K9's 
WhiteList, then if you can get OE's address bok exported into this 
format:

>From :Someone at Somehost.tld

then yes sort of. You just export the file to a file called 
whitelist.txt and replace k9's default whitelist.txt file.

If you mean get it into Pegasus, so you can use it there to creae 
emails then there are conversion apps out there. I don't recall any 
of their names however. Maybe Stuart does.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level, then beat 
you with experience.



From my.lists at verizon.net  Tue Nov 18 10:58:04 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:58:04 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <007b01c3adf2$3c4a77b0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMEJLFLAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
	<3FB94D26.8060903@verizon.net> <01b501c3ad6e$942ef8e0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
	<3FB9E361.1090207@verizon.net> <007b01c3adf2$3c4a77b0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <3FBA4F9C.3040805@verizon.net>

I don't use Pegasus (which I assume you are referring to and not k9), but I think there is probably an import under a tools or option menu (maybe file or preferences, again I don't use it so can't tell you... If it were Thunderbird  you were looking at then the answer is "YES".

-- 
-Francisco


Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:

>F:
>
>Thanks for the rundown.  I did load it on machine #2 and it looked quite
>good.  SO maybe I'll go over and also load Pegasus and K9.  Do you know if
>you can you import your address book from OE to K9?
>
>R
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Francisco H Tapia" <my.lists at verizon.net>
>To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
><dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 1:16 AM
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
>
>
>  
>
>>For starters, *Security* I mean if that "IS" a priority.
>>
>>Next... automatic (non-third-party) popup killer blocking.
>>Tho it's not an automatic default, I added the scripting (copy & paste)
>>needed for disabling ad-banners in web pages.
>>
>>before the scripting, the browser loaded fast.  In fact I notice that it
>>loads in many cases faster than IE.  After the adjustment w/ the no
>>ad-banners, it loads even faster (pages) than IE.
>>
>>Next, Tab browsing.  Default tab browsing is awesome, kinda like in
>>Opera if you've ever used that.  The neat feature he is you can open
>>multiple tabs w/ difrent content.... This is handy if you ever wanted to
>>open another page (follow a link) and keep your old page open w/o
>>opening another instance of the browser.  Let's say ebay, you can open
>>multiple items but keep the initial search page.
>>
>>Enhance that Tab Browsing w/ tab extentions and now you're really
>>cooking :D.  You can UNDO a closed tab, you can save your web session.
>>Say you get called into a meeting, you can close your browser save the
>>session and return to it w/o having to bookmark the page you were
>>reading. Additionally you can "duplicate" pages so you can follow
>>diffrent links or what ever other reason you'd want to have a duplicate
>>of a page.
>>
>>And the most awesome feature I like... it's got the best compatibility
>>than any other browser and yup I'll throw in IE in there too.  I'm
>>plauged w/ a ton of ActiveX scripting errors when I open IE. of course
>>it depends on what page I visit but I'll get these errors even when I
>>visit MS content.  To that I say phoey... I use Firebird cuz it'll
>>render "Just about any page" out there.  Sure some don't render, but
>>that's a rare occasion, and usually it depends on some mis-written tag.
>>  But you hardly run into that problem...
>>
>>The newest plugin faq setup allows your firebird setup (registry keys)
>>to be updated to recognize real, quicktime and flash (to name a few) so
>>it's not like you have to do a-lot of setup. and yes it's still RC I'm
>>using Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6b)
>>Gecko/20031109 Firebird/0.7+ (aebrahim)
>>But I like to keep up w/ the latest and the greatest cuz there really is
>>nothing wrong w/ .6
>>
>>lastly I liked how all my favorites were easily imported to firebird.
>>:)  and while I Don't like that the favorites are now centerilly
>>organized in firebird, I do like easily getting to my book marks via the
>>customizable toolbar (yes just like in IE).
>>
>>if you like skins for your browser to make it look more XPish just load
>>that particular skin :D.
>>
>>You really don't have to use it Rocky, but I do think that if you give
>>it a chance you will be impressed, and you might acctually say good bye
>>to IE. and you'll probably get a good chuckle the next time you see
>>another IE security vulnerability patch :). (like I did today).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>-Francisco
>>
>>
>>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Loaded it, ran it.  Looks functional.  Why is it better than IE?
>>>
>>>Rocky
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>From: "Francisco H Tapia" <my.lists at verizon.net>
>>>To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
>>><dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 2:35 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>http://texturizer.net/firebird/index.html
>>>>
>>>>Load it, Try it... and say good bye to IE :)
>>>>
>>>>-- 
>>>>-Francisco
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>John W. Colby wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>So that's what's causing it!
>>>>>
>>>>>8-(
>>>>>
>>>>>John W. Colby
>>>>>www.ColbyConsulting.com
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H
>>>>>Tapia
>>>>>Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:12 PM
>>>>>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>>>>Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>For those still doing windows update, and only visiting for CRITICAL
>>>>>updates for IE, here is something to consider....
>>>>>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12698
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>



From martyconnelly at shaw.ca  Tue Nov 18 12:34:14 2003
From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:34:14 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
References: <3FB933EE.13821.96A14E@localhost> <3FB9A342.9030807@shaw.ca>
 <3FB9E4BC.30406@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <3FBA6626.2010100@shaw.ca>

http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/cdcatalog.xml
http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/cdcatalog.xsl

then this
http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/tryit.asp?filename=cdcatalog
 should see split screen with xslt transform
left screen has asp code
right screen
to create table with columns Title and Artist
Even netscape 7.01 fails on this as but not  IE6

Francisco H Tapia wrote:

> Give me an example and I'll let you know.
>
> MartyConnelly wrote:
>
>> How does it handle xml pages?
>>
>> Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
>>
>>> On 17 Nov 2003 at 16:54, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>> Loaded it, ran it.  Looks functional.  Why is it better than IE?
>>>>   
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Where to start?
>>>
>>> Faster loading.
>>> Faster rendering of pages
>>> More standards compliant.
>>> Safer. Doesn't have all the exploits possible that IE does.
>>> Better design. (Tabbed browsing)
>>>
>>> Those are my top reasons.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
>>> I've learned....
>>> That to ignore the facts does not change the facts.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>
>
>

-- 
Marty Connelly
Victoria, B.C.
Canada




From gustav at cactus.dk  Tue Nov 18 12:47:48 2003
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:47:48 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FBA6626.2010100@shaw.ca>
References: <3FB933EE.13821.96A14E@localhost> <3FB9A342.9030807@shaw.ca>
 <3FB9E4BC.30406@verizon.net> <3FBA6626.2010100@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <1140067083.20031118194748@cactus.dk>

Hi Marty

In IE 5.5 nothing shows in the right pane except the header and the
labels Title Artist 

In Opera nothing is displayed in the right pane.

/gustav


> Date: 2003-11-18 19:34

> http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/cdcatalog.xml
> http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/cdcatalog.xsl

> then this
> http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/tryit.asp?filename=cdcatalog
>  should see split screen with xslt transform
> left screen has asp code
> right screen
> to create table with columns Title and Artist
> Even netscape 7.01 fails on this as but not  IE6

> Francisco H Tapia wrote:

>> Give me an example and I'll let you know.
>>
>> MartyConnelly wrote:
>>
>>> How does it handle xml pages?


From my.lists at verizon.net  Tue Nov 18 13:33:24 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:33:24 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FBA6626.2010100@shaw.ca>
References: <3FB933EE.13821.96A14E@localhost> <3FB9A342.9030807@shaw.ca>
	<3FB9E4BC.30406@verizon.net> <3FBA6626.2010100@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3FBA7404.4020304@verizon.net>

Checked it and the right pane does not render, I've posted it to the 
mozilla bug site and hope to get a reply sometime today. I'll let you 
know as soon as I know :)



MartyConnelly wrote:

> http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/cdcatalog.xml
> http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/cdcatalog.xsl
>
> then this
> http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/tryit.asp?filename=cdcatalog
> should see split screen with xslt transform
> left screen has asp code
> right screen
> to create table with columns Title and Artist
> Even netscape 7.01 fails on this as but not  IE6
>
> Francisco H Tapia wrote:
>
>> Give me an example and I'll let you know.
>>
>> MartyConnelly wrote:
>>
>>> How does it handle xml pages?
>>>
>>> Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 17 Nov 2003 at 16:54, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>> Loaded it, ran it.  Looks functional.  Why is it better than IE?
>>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Where to start?
>>>>
>>>> Faster loading.
>>>> Faster rendering of pages
>>>> More standards compliant.
>>>> Safer. Doesn't have all the exploits possible that IE does.
>>>> Better design. (Tabbed browsing)
>>>>
>>>> Those are my top reasons.
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
>>>> I've learned....
>>>> That to ignore the facts does not change the facts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
-Francisco



From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Tue Nov 18 13:39:06 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:39:06 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FBA7404.4020304@verizon.net>
References: <3FBA6626.2010100@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3FBA2F0A.31446.F8FEE@localhost>

On 18 Nov 2003 at 11:33, Francisco H Tapia wrote:

> Checked it and the right pane does not render, I've posted it to the
> mozilla bug site and hope to get a reply sometime today. I'll let you
> know as soon as I know :)

> MartyConnelly wrote:
> 
> > http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/cdcatalog.xml
> > http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/cdcatalog.xsl
> >
> > then this
> > http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/tryit.asp?filename=cdcatalog

Is it a bug?

Or is it IE specific?

These two lines makes me suspicious.
var xml = new ActiveXObject("Microsoft.XMLDOM")
var xsl = new ActiveXObject("Microsoft.XMLDOM")

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
A picture is worth a thousand words, but it uses up a thousand times 
the memory.



From my.lists at verizon.net  Tue Nov 18 14:10:45 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:10:45 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FBA2F0A.31446.F8FEE@localhost>
References: <3FBA6626.2010100@shaw.ca> <3FBA2F0A.31446.F8FEE@localhost>
Message-ID: <3FBA7CC5.6090404@verizon.net>

That was pointed out over on the mozillazine site.  This code seems to 
be proprietary for IE only :(, tho I've seen aspx (ASP.net) work well in 
Firebird.

-- 
-Francisco


Bryan Carbonnell wrote:

>On 18 Nov 2003 at 11:33, Francisco H Tapia wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Checked it and the right pane does not render, I've posted it to the
>>mozilla bug site and hope to get a reply sometime today. I'll let you
>>know as soon as I know :)
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>MartyConnelly wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/cdcatalog.xml
>>>http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/cdcatalog.xsl
>>>
>>>then this
>>>http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/tryit.asp?filename=cdcatalog
>>>      
>>>
>
>Is it a bug?
>
>Or is it IE specific?
>
>These two lines makes me suspicious.
>var xml = new ActiveXObject("Microsoft.XMLDOM")
>var xsl = new ActiveXObject("Microsoft.XMLDOM")
>
>  
>



From martyconnelly at shaw.ca  Tue Nov 18 14:11:23 2003
From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:11:23 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
References: <3FBA6626.2010100@shaw.ca> <3FBA2F0A.31446.F8FEE@localhost>
Message-ID: <3FBA7CEB.7080901@shaw.ca>

Well it isn't IE specific but you need MSXML installed to do the 
transform of the XML via XSL and XSLT
to either XML alone or displayed with a css file or directly to html.
IE installs various versions of MSXML as do the OS above Win2000 . And 
it is an activex object.
You can put the XSL inside the XML file. I'll have to find an example.
Netscape 7 is supposed to handle this as well. This is all supposedly 
handled client side not on the server.

Bryan Carbonnell wrote:

>On 18 Nov 2003 at 11:33, Francisco H Tapia wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Checked it and the right pane does not render, I've posted it to the
>>mozilla bug site and hope to get a reply sometime today. I'll let you
>>know as soon as I know :)
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>MartyConnelly wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/cdcatalog.xml
>>>http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/cdcatalog.xsl
>>>
>>>then this
>>>http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/tryit.asp?filename=cdcatalog
>>>      
>>>
>
>Is it a bug?
>
>Or is it IE specific?
>
>These two lines makes me suspicious.
>var xml = new ActiveXObject("Microsoft.XMLDOM")
>var xsl = new ActiveXObject("Microsoft.XMLDOM")
>
>--
>Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
>A picture is worth a thousand words, but it uses up a thousand times 
>the memory.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>  
>

-- 
Marty Connelly
Victoria, B.C.
Canada




From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Tue Nov 18 14:50:56 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:50:56 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FBA7CEB.7080901@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3FBA3FE0.30698.5155DA@localhost>

On 18 Nov 2003 at 12:11, MartyConnelly wrote:

> Well it isn't IE specific but you need MSXML installed to do the
> transform of the XML via XSL and XSLT to either XML alone or displayed
> with a css file or directly to html. IE installs various versions of
> MSXML as do the OS above Win2000 . And it is an activex object. You
> can put the XSL inside the XML file. I'll have to find an example.
> Netscape 7 is supposed to handle this as well. This is all supposedly
> handled client side not on the server.

Just found this at: http://texturizer.net/firebird/faq.html

"There is no support for VBScript and ActiveX,"

So since http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/tryit.asp?filename=cdcatalog is 
trying to create new ActiveX objects, it won't work in Firebird

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
I live in my own little world. But it's OK. They know me here.



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Nov 18 16:23:48 2003
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:23:48 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FBA0748.1847.1006563@localhost>
References: <007b01c3adf2$3c4a77b0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <3FBB2894.30183.249B03@localhost>

On 18 Nov 2003 at 11:49, Bryan Carbonnell wrote:

> On 18 Nov 2003 at 8:37, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote:
> 
> > Thanks for the rundown.  I did load it on machine #2 and it looked
> > quite good.  SO maybe I'll go over and also load Pegasus and K9.  Do
> > you know if you can you import your address book from OE to K9?
> 
> Is the question, can you get your OE address book into K9's 
> WhiteList, then if you can get OE's address bok exported into this 
> format:
> 
> >From :Someone at Somehost.tld
> 
> then yes sort of. You just export the file to a file called 
> whitelist.txt and replace k9's default whitelist.txt file.
> 
> If you mean get it into Pegasus, so you can use it there to creae 
> emails then there are conversion apps out there. I don't recall any 
> of their names however. Maybe Stuart does.
> 

There are tools around, but I've never bothered with them. 
One that is frequently mentioned as working well is Dawn:

http://www.joshie.com/projects/dawn/

I've done it quite a few times just by dumping the address book to a 
tab delimited file, opening it in Excel to re-arrrange the columns 
and then importing the tab delimited file into a Pegasus Address 
book.
(You can create a dummy address book with one entry in Pegasus and 
export it to a tab delimited file so that you can see what layout you 
ned for the import)

 
-- 
Lexacorp Ltd
http://www.lexacorp.com.pg
Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System 
Support.




From martyconnelly at shaw.ca  Tue Nov 18 16:44:34 2003
From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:44:34 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
References: <3FBA3FE0.30698.5155DA@localhost>
Message-ID: <3FBAA0D2.9060601@shaw.ca>

Here I composed my own test should work client side just a basic xml 
file calling an internal xsl file
http://www5.brinkster.com/mconnelly/ClientXML/planetbig.xml
and
http://www5.brinkster.com/mconnelly/ClientXML/planetsbig.xsl

Should see with wrong radius

The Planets Table
Name Mass Radius Day
Mercury .0553 (Earth = 1) 1516 miles
Venus .815 (Earth = 1) 3716 miles
Earth 1 (Earth = 1) 2107 miles


Bryan Carbonnell wrote:

>On 18 Nov 2003 at 12:11, MartyConnelly wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Well it isn't IE specific but you need MSXML installed to do the
>>transform of the XML via XSL and XSLT to either XML alone or displayed
>>with a css file or directly to html. IE installs various versions of
>>MSXML as do the OS above Win2000 . And it is an activex object. You
>>can put the XSL inside the XML file. I'll have to find an example.
>>Netscape 7 is supposed to handle this as well. This is all supposedly
>>handled client side not on the server.
>>    
>>
>
>Just found this at: http://texturizer.net/firebird/faq.html
>
>"There is no support for VBScript and ActiveX,"
>
>So since http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/tryit.asp?filename=cdcatalog is 
>trying to create new ActiveX objects, it won't work in Firebird
>
>--
>Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
>I live in my own little world. But it's OK. They know me here.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>  
>

-- 
Marty Connelly
Victoria, B.C.
Canada




From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Tue Nov 18 16:56:48 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:56:48 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FBAA0D2.9060601@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3FBA5D60.28933.C49298@localhost>

On 18 Nov 2003 at 14:44, MartyConnelly wrote:

> Here I composed my own test should work client side just a basic xml
> file calling an internal xsl file
> http://www5.brinkster.com/mconnelly/ClientXML/planetbig.xml and
> http://www5.brinkster.com/mconnelly/ClientXML/planetsbig.xsl
> 
> Should see with wrong radius
> 
> The Planets Table
> Name Mass Radius Day
> Mercury .0553 (Earth = 1) 1516 miles
> Venus .815 (Earth = 1) 3716 miles
> Earth 1 (Earth = 1) 2107 miles

Yep That's what showed up in Firebird when viewing the XML file. The 
Planets table lookes like it is <H1> text as well.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.



From my.lists at verizon.net  Tue Nov 18 17:33:50 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:33:50 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FBAA0D2.9060601@shaw.ca>
References: <3FBA3FE0.30698.5155DA@localhost> <3FBAA0D2.9060601@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3FBAAC5E.5090002@verizon.net>



This is how the data looks out of Firebird,


  The Planets Table

Name 	Mass 	Radius 	Day
Mercury 	.0553 (Earth = 1) 	1516 miles
Venus 	.815 (Earth = 1) 	3716 miles
Earth 	1 (Earth = 1) 	2107 miles



and this is it in Opera
Mercury .0553 58.65 1516 .983 43.4 Venus .815 116.75 3716 .943 66.8 
Earth 1 1 2107 1 128.4

and like this in IE 6 sp1 (which looks just like in firebird)


  The Planets Table

Name 	Mass 	Radius 	Day
Mercury 	.0553 (Earth = 1) 	1516 miles
Venus 	.815 (Earth = 1) 	3716 miles
Earth 	1 (Earth = 1) 	2107 miles


MartyConnelly wrote:

> Here I composed my own test should work client side just a basic xml 
> file calling an internal xsl file
> http://www5.brinkster.com/mconnelly/ClientXML/planetbig.xml
> and
> http://www5.brinkster.com/mconnelly/ClientXML/planetsbig.xsl
>
> Should see with wrong radius
>
> The Planets Table
> Name Mass Radius Day
> Mercury .0553 (Earth = 1) 1516 miles
> Venus .815 (Earth = 1) 3716 miles
> Earth 1 (Earth = 1) 2107 miles
>
>
> Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
>
>> On 18 Nov 2003 at 12:11, MartyConnelly wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>> Well it isn't IE specific but you need MSXML installed to do the
>>> transform of the XML via XSL and XSLT to either XML alone or displayed
>>> with a css file or directly to html. IE installs various versions of
>>> MSXML as do the OS above Win2000 . And it is an activex object. You
>>> can put the XSL inside the XML file. I'll have to find an example.
>>> Netscape 7 is supposed to handle this as well. This is all supposedly
>>> handled client side not on the server.
>>>   
>>
>>
>> Just found this at: http://texturizer.net/firebird/faq.html
>>
>> "There is no support for VBScript and ActiveX,"
>>
>> So since http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/tryit.asp?filename=cdcatalog is 
>> trying to create new ActiveX objects, it won't work in Firebird
>>
>> -- 
>> Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
>> I live in my own little world. But it's OK. They know me here.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>  
>>
>


-- 
-Francisco



From martyconnelly at shaw.ca  Tue Nov 18 23:20:27 2003
From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:20:27 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
References: <3FBA3FE0.30698.5155DA@localhost> <3FBAA0D2.9060601@shaw.ca>
 <3FBAAC5E.5090002@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <3FBAFD9B.4090006@shaw.ca>

Looks like Opera doesn't use the XSL stylesheet and just displays the 
xml elements skipping the attributes
I wonder why. Using an old XML spec maybe. Something to ponder but I am 
not desperate to find out.

Francisco H Tapia wrote:

>
>
> This is how the data looks out of Firebird,
>
>
>  The Planets Table
>
> Name     Mass     Radius     Day
> Mercury     .0553 (Earth = 1)     1516 miles
> Venus     .815 (Earth = 1)     3716 miles
> Earth     1 (Earth = 1)     2107 miles
>
>
>
> and this is it in Opera
> Mercury .0553 58.65 1516 .983 43.4 Venus .815 116.75 3716 .943 66.8 
> Earth 1 1 2107 1 128.4
>
> and like this in IE 6 sp1 (which looks just like in firebird)
>
>
>  The Planets Table
>
> Name     Mass     Radius     Day
> Mercury     .0553 (Earth = 1)     1516 miles
> Venus     .815 (Earth = 1)     3716 miles
> Earth     1 (Earth = 1)     2107 miles
>
>
> MartyConnelly wrote:
>
>> Here I composed my own test should work client side just a basic xml 
>> file calling an internal xsl file
>> http://www5.brinkster.com/mconnelly/ClientXML/planetbig.xml
>> and
>> http://www5.brinkster.com/mconnelly/ClientXML/planetsbig.xsl
>>
>> Should see with wrong radius
>>
>> The Planets Table
>> Name Mass Radius Day
>> Mercury .0553 (Earth = 1) 1516 miles
>> Venus .815 (Earth = 1) 3716 miles
>> Earth 1 (Earth = 1) 2107 miles
>>
>>
>> Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
>>
>>> On 18 Nov 2003 at 12:11, MartyConnelly wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>> Well it isn't IE specific but you need MSXML installed to do the
>>>> transform of the XML via XSL and XSLT to either XML alone or displayed
>>>> with a css file or directly to html. IE installs various versions of
>>>> MSXML as do the OS above Win2000 . And it is an activex object. You
>>>> can put the XSL inside the XML file. I'll have to find an example.
>>>> Netscape 7 is supposed to handle this as well. This is all supposedly
>>>> handled client side not on the server.
>>>>   
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just found this at: http://texturizer.net/firebird/faq.html
>>>
>>> "There is no support for VBScript and ActiveX,"
>>>
>>> So since http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/tryit.asp?filename=cdcatalog 
>>> is trying to create new ActiveX objects, it won't work in Firebird
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
>>> I live in my own little world. But it's OK. They know me here.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>
>
>

-- 
Marty Connelly
Victoria, B.C.
Canada




From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Nov 19 03:37:09 2003
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:37:09 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FBAA0D2.9060601@shaw.ca>
References: <3FBA3FE0.30698.5155DA@localhost> <3FBAA0D2.9060601@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <1236483012.20031119103709@cactus.dk>

Hi Marty

No cigar with my IE 5.5:

  The Planets Table
  Name Mass Radius Day

That's all.

/gustav


> Date: 2003-11-18 23:44

> Here I composed my own test should work client side just a basic xml 
> file calling an internal xsl file
> http://www5.brinkster.com/mconnelly/ClientXML/planetbig.xml
> and
> http://www5.brinkster.com/mconnelly/ClientXML/planetsbig.xsl

> Should see with wrong radius

> The Planets Table
> Name Mass Radius Day
> Mercury .0553 (Earth = 1) 1516 miles
> Venus .815 (Earth = 1) 3716 miles
> Earth 1 (Earth = 1) 2107 miles


From martyconnelly at shaw.ca  Wed Nov 19 09:00:59 2003
From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:00:59 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
References: <3FBA3FE0.30698.5155DA@localhost> <3FBAA0D2.9060601@shaw.ca>
 <1236483012.20031119103709@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <3FBB85AB.2010904@shaw.ca>

In my XSL file I am using Xpath which is compatible with MSXML 3.0, I 
think you can install XML 3.0 with IE5.5
Come to think of it Office 2003 installs XML 5.0
Prior to release of  XML 3.0 parser , Microsoft was using an older 
version of XSL spec that didn't include XSLT
To see, what version of MSXML is on your system, try this XML sniffer
http://www.topxml.com/parsers/sniffer/default.asp

Opera7 doesn't seem to use XSL, I haven't installed. It doesn't like 
client side operations
Seems to consider xsl/xslt a bad thing at least from their docs.
http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/#xml
 you can do XML & XSLT viewable in Opera .  do it by creating a 
javascript DOM and XSL TransformNode facility .
 For more insight on yet another techno war
http://my.opera.com/forums/showthread.php?s=295937041ab950bd3a3574b5d5502ddc&threadid=6024&highlight=xslt
They are right about one thing, XSLT could prove to be  a problem to Web 
Archivists and records managers.

Gustav Brock wrote:

>Hi Marty
>
>No cigar with my IE 5.5:
>
>  The Planets Table
>  Name Mass Radius Day
>
>That's all.
>
>/gustav
>
>
>  
>
>>Date: 2003-11-18 23:44
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>Here I composed my own test should work client side just a basic xml 
>>file calling an internal xsl file
>>http://www5.brinkster.com/mconnelly/ClientXML/planetbig.xml
>>and
>>http://www5.brinkster.com/mconnelly/ClientXML/planetsbig.xsl
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>Should see with wrong radius
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>The Planets Table
>>Name Mass Radius Day
>>Mercury .0553 (Earth = 1) 1516 miles
>>Venus .815 (Earth = 1) 3716 miles
>>Earth 1 (Earth = 1) 2107 miles
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>  
>

-- 
Marty Connelly
Victoria, B.C.
Canada




From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Nov 19 09:18:08 2003
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:18:08 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FBB85AB.2010904@shaw.ca>
References: <3FBA3FE0.30698.5155DA@localhost> <3FBAA0D2.9060601@shaw.ca>
 <1236483012.20031119103709@cactus.dk> <3FBB85AB.2010904@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <16826941940.20031119161808@cactus.dk>

Hi Marty

OK, that explains:

    Your Local System's MSXML Parsers:

    Microsoft.XMLDOM | undefined
    Msxml2.DOMDocument | undefined
    Msxml2.DOMDocument.2.6 | undefined
    Msxml2.DOMDocument.3.0 | undefined
    Msxml2.DOMDocument.4.0 | undefined

    Your Local System's MDAC:

    MDACVer.Version | undefined

Thanks for all those links! I'll have a look but probably not before
next week.

/gustav


> Date: 2003-11-19 16:00

> In my XSL file I am using Xpath which is compatible with MSXML 3.0, I 
> think you can install XML 3.0 with IE5.5
> Come to think of it Office 2003 installs XML 5.0
> Prior to release of  XML 3.0 parser , Microsoft was using an older 
> version of XSL spec that didn't include XSLT
> To see, what version of MSXML is on your system, try this XML sniffer
> http://www.topxml.com/parsers/sniffer/default.asp

> Opera7 doesn't seem to use XSL, I haven't installed. It doesn't like 
> client side operations
> Seems to consider xsl/xslt a bad thing at least from their docs.
> http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/#xml
>  you can do XML & XSLT viewable in Opera .  do it by creating a 
> javascript DOM and XSL TransformNode facility .
>  For more insight on yet another techno war
> http://my.opera.com/forums/showthread.php?s=295937041ab950bd3a3574b5d5502ddc&threadid=6024&highlight=xslt
> They are right about one thing, XSLT could prove to be  a problem to Web 
> Archivists and records managers.

> Gustav Brock wrote:

>>Hi Marty
>>
>>No cigar with my IE 5.5:
>>
>>  The Planets Table
>>  Name Mass Radius Day
>>
>>That's all.
>>
>>/gustav
>>
>>
>>>Here I composed my own test should work client side just a basic xml
>>>file calling an internal xsl file
>>>http://www5.brinkster.com/mconnelly/ClientXML/planetbig.xml
>>>and
>>>http://www5.brinkster.com/mconnelly/ClientXML/planetsbig.xsl
>>>
>>>Should see with wrong radius
>>>
>>>The Planets Table
>>>Name Mass Radius Day
>>>Mercury .0553 (Earth = 1) 1516 miles
>>>Venus .815 (Earth = 1) 3716 miles
>>>Earth 1 (Earth = 1) 2107 miles


From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Nov 19 09:24:09 2003
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:24:09 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS patches Scroll out of IE
In-Reply-To: <3FBB85AB.2010904@shaw.ca>
References: <3FBA3FE0.30698.5155DA@localhost> <3FBAA0D2.9060601@shaw.ca>
 <1236483012.20031119103709@cactus.dk> <3FBB85AB.2010904@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <627302368.20031119162409@cactus.dk>

Hi Marty

I was too fast, those results were for Opera.

Here's the results for IE 5.5:

       Your Local System's MSXML Parsers:
       Microsoft.XMLDOM
       Msxml2.DOMDocument
       Msxml2.DOMDocument.2.6 | Automation server could not create object
       Msxml2.DOMDocument.3.0
       Msxml2.DOMDocument.4.0

       Your Local System's MDAC:
       MDACVer.Version | Automation server could not create object

/gustav


> Date: 2003-11-19 16:00

> In my XSL file I am using Xpath which is compatible with MSXML 3.0, I 
> think you can install XML 3.0 with IE5.5

> Come to think of it Office 2003 installs XML 5.0
> Prior to release of  XML 3.0 parser , Microsoft was using an older 
> version of XSL spec that didn't include XSLT

> To see, what version of MSXML is on your system, try this XML sniffer

> http://www.topxml.com/parsers/sniffer/default.asp


From bchacc at san.rr.com  Wed Nov 19 09:37:59 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:37:59 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Delete contents of this folder?
Message-ID: <007301c3aeb3$1dac3570$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

I've got a folder  on my box with 2.58GB of stuff:

C:\Documents and Settings\Rocky Smolin\Local Settings\Application Data\Identities\{3203D4E4-3933-4654-8ACC-63655A457D5D}\Microsoft\Outlook Express

and I'm wondering what it is and if it can be deleted.  Anybody know?

MTIA

Rocky

From Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk  Wed Nov 19 09:40:29 2003
From: Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk (Jon Tydda)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:40:29 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Delete contents of this folder?
Message-ID: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449E72@ALCUXB>

That's where your personal message store and address book are kept for OE, I
wouldn't delete that if I were you!


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com]
Sent: 19 November 2003 15:38
To: dba-tech
Subject: [dba-Tech] Delete contents of this folder?


I've got a folder  on my box with 2.58GB of stuff:

C:\Documents and Settings\Rocky Smolin\Local Settings\Application
Data\Identities\{3203D4E4-3933-4654-8ACC-63655A457D5D}\Microsoft\Outlook
Express

and I'm wondering what it is and if it can be deleted.  Anybody know?

MTIA

Rocky
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject
to the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
Registered in England and Wales No 4057291

From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Wed Nov 19 09:43:13 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:43:13 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Delete contents of this folder?
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF03CECF@stekelbes.ithelps.local>

It your mailbox from outlook express.
Contains e-mails and newsgroups.



 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
- Beach Access Software
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:38 PM
To: dba-tech
Subject: [dba-Tech] Delete contents of this folder?

I've got a folder  on my box with 2.58GB of stuff:

C:\Documents and Settings\Rocky Smolin\Local Settings\Application
Data\Identities\{3203D4E4-3933-4654-8ACC-63655A457D5D}\Microsoft\Outlook
Express

and I'm wondering what it is and if it can be deleted.  Anybody know?

MTIA

Rocky
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Wed Nov 19 09:50:50 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:50:50 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Delete contents of this folder?
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF03CED0@stekelbes.ithelps.local>

There is somewhere a function in Outlook Express to compress these
files.
This works like the compress from Access and will remove deleted
messages.

Before that you could start cleaning your mailbox by removing mails with
large attachements (sort on size for quick deletion). (esspicaly jokes
take a lot of space)
Also delete all messages and subfolders in your deleted items folder. 

Also Remove newsgroups you no longer use.

Then do this compression from within OE.

You will save lots of space!!!

Erwin

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:43 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Delete contents of this folder?

It your mailbox from outlook express.
Contains e-mails and newsgroups.



 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
- Beach Access Software
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:38 PM
To: dba-tech
Subject: [dba-Tech] Delete contents of this folder?

I've got a folder  on my box with 2.58GB of stuff:

C:\Documents and Settings\Rocky Smolin\Local Settings\Application
Data\Identities\{3203D4E4-3933-4654-8ACC-63655A457D5D}\Microsoft\Outlook
Express

and I'm wondering what it is and if it can be deleted.  Anybody know?

MTIA

Rocky
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From john at winhaven.net  Wed Nov 19 10:18:27 2003
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:18:27 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Delete contents of this folder?
In-Reply-To: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF03CED0@stekelbes.ithelps.local>
Message-ID: <LPBBLAKMHEDAKJKENHKIMEDAENAA.john@winhaven.net>

Also you can move your outlook express mailbox to another folder that will
make sense to you in the future, like My Documents\Mailbox or something
similar. An option under Tools.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Erwin Craps
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 9:51 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Delete contents of this folder?
>
>
> There is somewhere a function in Outlook Express to compress these
> files.
> This works like the compress from Access and will remove deleted
> messages.
>
> Before that you could start cleaning your mailbox by removing mails with
> large attachements (sort on size for quick deletion). (esspicaly jokes
> take a lot of space)
> Also delete all messages and subfolders in your deleted items folder.
>
> Also Remove newsgroups you no longer use.
>
> Then do this compression from within OE.
>
> You will save lots of space!!!
>
> Erwin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:43 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Delete contents of this folder?
>
> It your mailbox from outlook express.
> Contains e-mails and newsgroups.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
> - Beach Access Software
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:38 PM
> To: dba-tech
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Delete contents of this folder?
>
> I've got a folder  on my box with 2.58GB of stuff:
>
> C:\Documents and Settings\Rocky Smolin\Local Settings\Application
> Data\Identities\{3203D4E4-3933-4654-8ACC-63655A457D5D}\Microsoft\Outlook
> Express
>
> and I'm wondering what it is and if it can be deleted.  Anybody know?
>
> MTIA
>
> Rocky
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>



From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Nov 19 10:49:51 2003
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:49:51 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] WordPerfect 5.1 DOS mode is back
Message-ID: <19132444763.20031119174951@cactus.dk>

For veteran listers

You wouldn't believe this. WordPerfect as it used to be - with strange
key combinations and the blue hard core typist screen - is back!

Step Back in Time with WordPerfect? Classic Mode

New in WordPerfect Office 11, the Classic Mode lets you work in the
familiar visual environment of Corel? WordPerfect? 5.1. Instantly
customize the user interface to work with the renowned blue screen.
Plus, save time and never take your hands off the keyboard by
implementing the WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS keyboard shortcuts.

One-line URL:

http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Corel/Products/Standard&scid=1047022173966&id=1042153063297#classic

/gustav


From serbach at new.rr.com  Wed Nov 19 13:02:58 2003
From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:02:58 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] WordPerfect 5.1 DOS mode is back
Message-ID: <20031119130258.1288878741.serbach@new.rr.com>

>> Plus, save time and never take your hands off the keyboard by
implementing the WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS keyboard shortcuts. <<

I love it! My association with WP began with version 3.x. I loved it immediately because its concept of hidden codes corresponded so closely to the old DEC WPS program that I used on the DEC...I forget the name of it now. It wasn't a DEC terminal, it was one of the three different PC-type boxes that Digital made in the early 80s. One was the Rainbow 100 that allowed you to run DOS; another was the Professional 350 (?) that was a mini-PDP-11; and the other emulated the DEC word processing software on PDP-8s and -11s. The "gold" key and all that...

I think I'll check with the people on the Corel Paradox forum I subscribe to to find out about it.

Regards,
 
Steve Erbach
Scientific Marketing
Neenah, WI

Disclaimer: No tree was killed in the transmission of this message. However, several coulombs of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced.


From garykjos at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 19 14:46:57 2003
From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:46:57 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] WordPerfect 5.1 DOS mode is back
Message-ID: <BAY2-F134VoAxRYG6jj00005d02@hotmail.com>

Back to the days when the actual words you typed meant more than which font 
you used.

Gary Kjos
garykjos at hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
>From the hottest toys to tips on keeping fit this winter, you?ll find a 
range of helpful holiday info here.  
http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx


From bchacc at san.rr.com  Wed Nov 19 15:37:55 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:37:55 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Delete contents of this folder?
References: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF03CED0@stekelbes.ithelps.local>
Message-ID: <00ed01c3aee5$6b99ef20$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

That done it.  Of course it didn't work the first time because after
deleting all that stuff it just ended up in the deleted items folder.  But
after deleting THAT stuff and doing the File-->Folder-->Compact all Folders
thing, It's way down.  Now I can back it up.  :)

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Erwin Craps" <Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 7:50 AM
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Delete contents of this folder?


> There is somewhere a function in Outlook Express to compress these
> files.
> This works like the compress from Access and will remove deleted
> messages.
>
> Before that you could start cleaning your mailbox by removing mails with
> large attachements (sort on size for quick deletion). (esspicaly jokes
> take a lot of space)
> Also delete all messages and subfolders in your deleted items folder.
>
> Also Remove newsgroups you no longer use.
>
> Then do this compression from within OE.
>
> You will save lots of space!!!
>
> Erwin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:43 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Delete contents of this folder?
>
> It your mailbox from outlook express.
> Contains e-mails and newsgroups.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
> - Beach Access Software
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:38 PM
> To: dba-tech
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Delete contents of this folder?
>
> I've got a folder  on my box with 2.58GB of stuff:
>
> C:\Documents and Settings\Rocky Smolin\Local Settings\Application
> Data\Identities\{3203D4E4-3933-4654-8ACC-63655A457D5D}\Microsoft\Outlook
> Express
>
> and I'm wondering what it is and if it can be deleted.  Anybody know?
>
> MTIA
>
> Rocky
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From my.lists at verizon.net  Wed Nov 19 17:11:39 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:11:39 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [AccessD] IE 5.5 download
In-Reply-To: <Sea2-F44Xx3UuyUoRKO000094c1@hotmail.com>
References: <Sea2-F44Xx3UuyUoRKO000094c1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3FBBF8AB.2040202@verizon.net>

IE 5.5 does run on Windows 95, there's a patch for some security services on the microsoft.com/downloads page where it explicitly names for use with windows 95.  Visiting Microsoft I couldn't find a download for 5.5, so it does look like 5.5 has been completly abandonded.  But you can always try Firebird, This may work better for you since you are having some memory issues w/ Netscape and IE.  Why would you use both browsers tho?

anyways, here is the link if you want to try it out.
http://www.nidelven-it.no/articles/introduction_to_firebird

-- 
-Francisco


Henry Simpson wrote:

> IE 5.5 is no longer available from Microsoft as a download yet I have 
> a client in the position of it becoming a minimum system requirement 
> to access a new government registry formerly only accessible with 
> Netscape.  Regrettably the client boxes run Win 3.11 and Win 95 and 
> neither OS meets the IE 6 minimum of Win 98.  It seems there is a 
> limitless supply of throw away computers and Win 95 licenses that will 
> forever meet the client's needs and taste for Word Perfect 5.
>
> The Win 95 machines currently run IE 5.00.2314.1003 and I'm curious 
> whether 5.5 can run on a 95 box and if there is any where a version 
> can be obtained.  The registries will cease hosting the version that 
> supports Netscape as of December 1, 2003.
>
> By the way, the machines are rock, ok - sandstone, solid, provided I 
> don't run Word, WordPerfect, Netscape and IE concurrently (Netscape 
> tends to crash when all are loaded at once) and although there are 
> obvious memory leaks in the OS (if the primary peer server isn't 
> rebooted every 3 days, resources go below 30% and worse after a 
> Netscape crash, so it is rebooted every morning).  The Win 95 machines 
> run an Access 2K FE and the Win 3 machines use Access 2.  The fastest 
> machine here runs a 233 AMD chip with 64 megs.  I'm almost shocked at 
> how well it all works.
>
> Hen
>
> __




From ralph at inweb.co.uk  Wed Nov 19 19:56:53 2003
From: ralph at inweb.co.uk (Ralph Bryce)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 01:56:53 +0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] WordPerfect 5.1 DOS mode is back
In-Reply-To: <20031119130258.1288878741.serbach@new.rr.com>
References: <20031119130258.1288878741.serbach@new.rr.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20031120015344.03714188@pop3.inweb.co.uk>

Steve
At 19:02 19/11/2003, you wrote:
> >> Plus, save time and never take your hands off the keyboard by
>implementing the WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS keyboard shortcuts. <<
>
>I love it! My association with WP began with version 3.x. I loved it 
>immediately because its concept of hidden codes corresponded so closely to 
>the old DEC WPS program that I used on the DEC...I forget the name of it 
>now. It wasn't a DEC terminal, it was one of the three different PC-type 
>boxes that Digital made in the early 80s.

You may be thinking about the DECMATE (and the Daisy Wheel printer) we all 
knew and loved...

Regards,
Ralph Bryce 



From Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk  Thu Nov 20 03:03:40 2003
From: Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk (Jon Tydda)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:03:40 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] WordPerfect 5.1 DOS mode is back
Message-ID: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449E79@ALCUXB>

I hated Word Perfect... I was brought up onthe dot commands of Wordstar 4
and 5, then we migrated to Lotus Ami Pro, which was absolutely fantastic
because it was nothing like MS Word. Then they brought the next version out,
called it Word Pro, and to my horror and disgust, it was almost exactly the
same as Word, which I've been using ever since :-(


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk]
Sent: 19 November 2003 16:50
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] WordPerfect 5.1 DOS mode is back


For veteran listers

You wouldn't believe this. WordPerfect as it used to be - with strange
key combinations and the blue hard core typist screen - is back!

Step Back in Time with WordPerfect? Classic Mode

New in WordPerfect Office 11, the Classic Mode lets you work in the
familiar visual environment of Corel? WordPerfect? 5.1. Instantly
customize the user interface to work with the renowned blue screen.
Plus, save time and never take your hands off the keyboard by
implementing the WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS keyboard shortcuts.

One-line URL:

http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Corel/Products/Standard&scid
=1047022173966&id=1042153063297#classic

/gustav

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject
to the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
Registered in England and Wales No 4057291

From gustav at cactus.dk  Thu Nov 20 03:12:55 2003
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:12:55 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] WordPerfect 5.1 DOS mode is back
In-Reply-To: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449E79@ALCUXB>
References: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449E79@ALCUXB>
Message-ID: <474689072.20031120101255@cactus.dk>

Hi Jon

I agree totally. We loved Am? (I had it running from the days of
Samda) but WordPro is different. However, we live with WordPro as
we've never learned to love Word.

/gustav


> Date: 2003-11-20 10:03

> I hated Word Perfect... I was brought up onthe dot commands of Wordstar 4
> and 5, then we migrated to Lotus Ami Pro, which was absolutely fantastic
> because it was nothing like MS Word. Then they brought the next version out,
> called it Word Pro, and to my horror and disgust, it was almost exactly the
> same as Word, which I've been using ever since :-(


From Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk  Thu Nov 20 03:22:14 2003
From: Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk (Jon Tydda)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:22:14 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] WordPerfect 5.1 DOS mode is back
Message-ID: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449E7A@ALCUXB>

Gustav

I quite like Word now that I'm forced to use it at work (and therefore at
home too if I want to be able to transfer files easily), but Ami Pro still
has features that Word doesn't - such as the ability to number pages
properly without needing a degree in astrophysics, or the bizarre stats in
the grammar check... Gunnings Fog index??? :-)


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk]
Sent: 20 November 2003 09:13
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] WordPerfect 5.1 DOS mode is back


Hi Jon

I agree totally. We loved Am? (I had it running from the days of
Samda) but WordPro is different. However, we live with WordPro as
we've never learned to love Word.

/gustav


> Date: 2003-11-20 10:03

> I hated Word Perfect... I was brought up onthe dot commands of Wordstar 4
> and 5, then we migrated to Lotus Ami Pro, which was absolutely fantastic
> because it was nothing like MS Word. Then they brought the next version
out,
> called it Word Pro, and to my horror and disgust, it was almost exactly
the
> same as Word, which I've been using ever since :-(

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject
to the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
Registered in England and Wales No 4057291

From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Thu Nov 20 04:40:43 2003
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 20:40:43 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] WordPerfect 5.1 DOS mode is back
In-Reply-To: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449E7A@ALCUXB>
Message-ID: <3FBD26CB.13642.1B5084@localhost>

On 20 Nov 2003 at 9:22, Jon Tydda wrote:

> Gustav
> 
> I quite like Word now that I'm forced to use it at work (and therefore at
> home too if I want to be able to transfer files easily), but Ami Pro still
> has features that Word doesn't - such as the ability to number pages
> properly without needing a degree in astrophysics, or the bizarre stats in
> the grammar check... Gunnings Fog index??? :-)
> 

A measure of how "foggy" your prose is - developed by Rober Gunning.
It basically equates to the Grade Level reading skill needed to 
understand it.



 
-- 
Lexacorp Ltd
http://www.lexacorp.com.pg
Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System 
Support.




From Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk  Thu Nov 20 05:17:18 2003
From: Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk (Jon Tydda)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:17:18 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] WordPerfect 5.1 DOS mode is back
Message-ID: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449E84@ALCUXB>

I used to use those statistics a lot, found them very useful. Much better
than the wavy green line in Word that says "Fragmented sentence"...


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg]
Sent: 20 November 2003 10:41
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] WordPerfect 5.1 DOS mode is back


On 20 Nov 2003 at 9:22, Jon Tydda wrote:

> Gustav
> 
> I quite like Word now that I'm forced to use it at work (and therefore at
> home too if I want to be able to transfer files easily), but Ami Pro still
> has features that Word doesn't - such as the ability to number pages
> properly without needing a degree in astrophysics, or the bizarre stats in
> the grammar check... Gunnings Fog index??? :-)
> 

A measure of how "foggy" your prose is - developed by Rober Gunning.
It basically equates to the Grade Level reading skill needed to 
understand it.



 
-- 
Lexacorp Ltd
http://www.lexacorp.com.pg
Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System 
Support.



_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject
to the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
Registered in England and Wales No 4057291

From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Thu Nov 20 06:16:55 2003
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:16:55 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] WordPerfect 5.1 DOS mode is back
In-Reply-To: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449E84@ALCUXB>
Message-ID: <3FBD3D57.4547.7364EA@localhost>

On 20 Nov 2003 at 11:17, Jon Tydda wrote:

> I used to use those statistics a lot, found them very useful. Much better
> than the wavy green line in Word that says "Fragmented sentence"...
> 

Very handy for checking when developing training material etc for 
Papua New Guineans - often English is their third language.


 
-- 
Lexacorp Ltd
http://www.lexacorp.com.pg
Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System 
Support.




From serbach at new.rr.com  Thu Nov 20 08:32:02 2003
From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:32:02 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] WordPerfect 5.1 DOS mode is back
Message-ID: <20031120083202.1252969068.serbach@new.rr.com>

Ralph,

>> DECMATE <<

That's it! I worked with the guy who had a contract with DEC to do upgrades to the PDP-8 O/S, if you can believe it. He was a certifiable genius. He got me to appreciate WPS. Then I moved on and found that WordPerfect used the same formatting metaphor. Piece o' cake to adapt. Too bad that their move to Windows bogged them down so badly vis-a-vis Word.

Regards,
 
Steve Erbach
Scientific Marketing
Neenah, WI

Disclaimer: No tree was killed in the transmission of this message. However, several coulombs of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced.


From my.lists at verizon.net  Thu Nov 20 12:02:33 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:02:33 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] WordPerfect 5.1 DOS mode is back
In-Reply-To: <3FBD3D57.4547.7364EA@localhost>
References: <3FBD3D57.4547.7364EA@localhost>
Message-ID: <3FBD01B9.3040604@verizon.net>

What's wrong with you people... WordPerfect 5.1 WAS the KILLER APP!... codes, custom fonts.. and an easy to use interface that kiked wordstar and other would be word processing programs of the time :)

-- 
-Francisco


Stuart McLachlan wrote:

>On 20 Nov 2003 at 11:17, Jon Tydda wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I used to use those statistics a lot, found them very useful. Much better
>>than the wavy green line in Word that says "Fragmented sentence"...
>>
>>    
>>
>
>Very handy for checking when developing training material etc for 
>Papua New Guineans - often English is their third language.
>
>
> 
>  
>



From serbach at new.rr.com  Thu Nov 20 12:47:57 2003
From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:47:57 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Small Business Server 2003
Message-ID: <20031120124757.401757844.serbach@new.rr.com>

Erwin,

I'd be interested to hear anyone's feedback on this, too. I'm considering buying the Action Pack.

Regards,
 
Steve Erbach
Scientific Marketing
Neenah, WI

Disclaimer: No tree was killed in the transmission of this message. However, several coulombs of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced.


From kathryn at bassett.net  Thu Nov 20 17:33:18 2003
From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:33:18 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Favor from an XP user
In-Reply-To: <3FA791ED.17217.DF8D66@localhost>
Message-ID: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIEEBKHLAB.kathryn@bassett.net>

Would you please download and install Family Roots onto your C drive from
http://bassett.net/famroots/frupgradefaq.shtml

Follow the instructions up TO the paragraph that starts:
Now if you have your existing program in that folder, then just press enter. 

That's right after an ascii "picture" telling where to install.

After installing the program, run c:\fr4\fr.exe and see if it comes up.

I just had someone say: "I am in the process of buying a new computer. The technicians tell me that Win XP will not accept any DOS software."

I'm sure that I've had customers tell me they've successfully used FR on XP, but need to make sure. I'm pretty sure it's a matter of the "technicians" not knowing what they are talking about.

Assuming that it works, would you also follow the instructions at:
http://bassett.net/famroots/frdesktopicon.shtml
and tell me if there are any modification that are needed for an XP user, or if the instructions work there too.

Thanks.

--
Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
"Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
kathryn at bassett.net
http://bassett.net  


From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Thu Nov 20 19:26:46 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 20:26:46 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Favor from an XP user
In-Reply-To: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIEEBKHLAB.kathryn@bassett.net>
References: <3FA791ED.17217.DF8D66@localhost>
Message-ID: <3FBD2386.12751.2CDAD64@localhost>

On 20 Nov 2003 at 15:33, Kathryn Bassett wrote:

> After installing the program, run c:\fr4\fr.exe and see if it comes
> up.

Yep. It works just fine on XP Pro SP1

> I just had someone say: "I am in the process of buying a new computer.
> The technicians tell me that Win XP will not accept any DOS software."

That tech is full of .....

> on XP, but need to make sure. I'm pretty sure it's a matter of the
> "technicians" not knowing what they are talking about.

That's right. Doesnt know his elbow from a hole in the ground.

Even if it didn't work in XP "right out of the box", you can set 
compatability mode back to Win95 which makes the app think it's 
running on Win 95.

> Assuming that it works, would you also follow the instructions at:
> http://bassett.net/famroots/frdesktopicon.shtml and tell me if there
> are any modification that are needed for an XP user, or if the
> instructions work there too.


[command line=] reads "Type the location of the Item:" in XP

[name of shortcut, I use FR4.4d] reads "Type A name for this shortcut:"

Now after Right Clicking and selecting Properties:

The "Put x in Close on exit box" box is checked by default for me.

Choose icon is called Change Icon.

[filename box=] is called "look for icons in this file"

Bottomline is other than minor textual differences, it works just fine

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level, then beat 
you with experience.



From kathryn at bassett.net  Thu Nov 20 21:05:54 2003
From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:05:54 -0800
Subject: THANKS RE: [dba-Tech] Favor from an XP user
In-Reply-To: <3FBD2386.12751.2CDAD64@localhost>
Message-ID: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIOECHHLAB.kathryn@bassett.net>

Thanks Bryan

--
Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
"Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
kathryn at bassett.net
http://bassett.net  
> 
> On 20 Nov 2003 at 15:33, Kathryn Bassett wrote:
> 
> > After installing the program, run c:\fr4\fr.exe and see if it comes
> > up.
> 
> Yep. It works just fine on XP Pro SP1


From john at winhaven.net  Thu Nov 20 22:47:59 2003
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:47:59 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] WinXP IE6 problems
Message-ID: <NGBBLIECOMAKBPEDMKEJKENJFFAA.john@winhaven.net>

A client's machine that has WinXP and IE6 will cannot search from MSN
Search, can not get to Google and a number of other search sites. I also
cannot get to Spybot search and destroy's site from that machine. I had
loaded it a few months ago and tried to update it and that failed so I tried
to unistall and reinstall it and that failed. I ran NU Windows Doctor and
didn't have anything wrong but missing shortcuts (very rarely have I seen a
machine where NU WD comes up 0 problems). I installed AdAware and found some
advertising cookies but nothing big and ugly. I scanned it with two
different Online AV scanners and came up empty. I checked the search
settings in IE and it all appears normal. Odd thing is, I can use the Google
powered search on Netscape's page.

I read Francisco's mind and loaded Mozilla 1.5 - same results as IE6.
;o)

The only thing different about this PC is that it came preloaded with WinXP
Homely Edition but they have an NT domain it needed to join  so they
upgraded it to WinXP Pro. Only one like that I've seen.

Any ideas?

jb



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Thu Nov 20 23:07:06 2003
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:07:06 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] AV Software on Servers [was Redemption DLL ]
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPOEFPFMAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <3FBDE9A0.16070.BC492@localhost>
Message-ID: <3FBE2A1A.16609.121514@localhost>

On 20 Nov 2003 at 20:40, John W. Colby wrote:

> Stuart,
> 
> I personally don't say it has no place in the world.  The unfortunate
> reality is that there are millions of machines out there used by individuals
> in their homes (or small office) who are too ignorant to run virus checkers.
> THESE users should indeed install the service patch so that they only screw
> up their own machines when the virus hits them.  It simply has no place in a
> business where they should be running AV software.
> 

Which brings us on to another question, prompted recently by a 
client.

What is your option on running anti-virus software on network 
servers?
(Assuming that you do run on-access scanning software on the 
workstations)

Note: 
X-posted to <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
All follow ups to that list only. Please!


 
 
-- 
Lexacorp Ltd
http://www.lexacorp.com.pg
Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System 
Support.




From john at winhaven.net  Thu Nov 20 23:26:14 2003
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 23:26:14 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] AV Software on Servers [was Redemption DLL ]
In-Reply-To: <3FBE2A1A.16609.121514@localhost>
Message-ID: <LPBBLAKMHEDAKJKENHKIOEEEENAA.john@winhaven.net>

Stuart:
I have done server and workstation AV scanning for years and recommend my
clients do it. Filtering anything frivolous from network traffic is a good
thing. Server side SPAM filtering too. Now if we could just get them to stop
loading those programs that download new wallpaper everyday from some
website!

My ISP scans all emails at the server for free and has for at least 3 years
now. (More recently with SPAM) This is simply economics from their
standpoint. They stop thousands of emails generated by replicating viruses
with no actual content from having to be sent from their server through
their pipes to people who don't want them.

JMO
JB

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart
> McLachlan
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Cc: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: [dba-Tech] AV Software on Servers [was Redemption DLL ]
>
>
> On 20 Nov 2003 at 20:40, John W. Colby wrote:
>
> > Stuart,
> >
> > I personally don't say it has no place in the world.  The unfortunate
> > reality is that there are millions of machines out there used
> by individuals
> > in their homes (or small office) who are too ignorant to run
> virus checkers.
> > THESE users should indeed install the service patch so that
> they only screw
> > up their own machines when the virus hits them.  It simply has
> no place in a
> > business where they should be running AV software.
> >
>
> Which brings us on to another question, prompted recently by a
> client.
>
> What is your option on running anti-virus software on network
> servers?
> (Assuming that you do run on-access scanning software on the
> workstations)
>
> Note:
> X-posted to <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> All follow ups to that list only. Please!
>
>
>
>
> --
> Lexacorp Ltd
> http://www.lexacorp.com.pg
> Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System
> Support.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>



From john at winhaven.net  Thu Nov 20 23:35:32 2003
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 23:35:32 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] K9
Message-ID: <NGBBLIECOMAKBPEDMKEJEENLFFAA.john@winhaven.net>

due to all of the recommendations I've seen here I'm giving K9 spam filter a
try.

First question: Listen on Port: 9999

How do I know if this is correct?

jb



From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Fri Nov 21 03:01:28 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:01:28 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Favor from an XP user
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF03CEDB@stekelbes.ithelps.local>

I don't know for your app, but I can asure you that problems exists with
some DOS apps that worked fine in W2K and are not working as it should
in XP.

A well known acoountancy dos app, does not work in full screen DOS mode.
It must be in a window DOS.
I try to remember the nature of the problem but it has to do with the
keyboard.
I believe in full screen dos, typing keys does not show up in the
application, it does not respond to the keyboard.
It does respond when in dos windowed mode (bizare), it also also only
supports qwerty keyboards in despite that the keyboard is working in
azerty in regular windows.
The app supplier claims there is no solution to resolve this in Windows
XP.

For me its clear there are some major changes in the dos emulation
between W2K and XP.
You should test before upgrading or installing XP.


Erwin






-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn
Bassett
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 12:33 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] Favor from an XP user

Would you please download and install Family Roots onto your C drive
from http://bassett.net/famroots/frupgradefaq.shtml

Follow the instructions up TO the paragraph that starts:
Now if you have your existing program in that folder, then just press
enter. 

That's right after an ascii "picture" telling where to install.

After installing the program, run c:\fr4\fr.exe and see if it comes up.

I just had someone say: "I am in the process of buying a new computer.
The technicians tell me that Win XP will not accept any DOS software."

I'm sure that I've had customers tell me they've successfully used FR on
XP, but need to make sure. I'm pretty sure it's a matter of the
"technicians" not knowing what they are talking about.

Assuming that it works, would you also follow the instructions at:
http://bassett.net/famroots/frdesktopicon.shtml
and tell me if there are any modification that are needed for an XP
user, or if the instructions work there too.

Thanks.

--
Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
"Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
kathryn at bassett.net
http://bassett.net  

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Fri Nov 21 04:49:26 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:49:26 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] K9
In-Reply-To: <NGBBLIECOMAKBPEDMKEJEENLFFAA.john@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <3FBDA766.32025.12C3C8@localhost>

On 20 Nov 2003 at 23:35, John Bartow wrote:

> due to all of the recommendations I've seen here I'm giving K9 spam
> filter a try.
> 
> First question: Listen on Port: 9999
> 
> How do I know if this is correct?

Because in your e-mail client you are going to tell it to use port 
9999 instead of 110

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, because you are crunchy and 
taste good with ketchup.



From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com  Fri Nov 21 08:10:22 2003
From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News))
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:10:22 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen
Message-ID: <D3E2A213B8F45B4DAC92EB5FD98ED1EF010EB942@nnse14.nns.com>

On my home system, I've loaded XP two separate ways...once with two created
logons, and currently (although I know it is "wrong") with just the default
Administrator logon.  All service packs, updates have been installed.  All
is good.

A friend of mine came to me with a startling question.  He had XP loaded
with all updates, as I do, with just the Administrator account.  However,
last night, for no apparent reason when he powered on his machine the logon
screen was blank except for the shutdown link...no logon icon is present,
thus he is unable to logon to his machine.  Neither will it boot into safe
mode.


Any suggestions?



Mark

From john at winhaven.net  Fri Nov 21 09:18:57 2003
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:18:57 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] K9
In-Reply-To: <3FBDA766.32025.12C3C8@localhost>
Message-ID: <LPBBLAKMHEDAKJKENHKIOEEIENAA.john@winhaven.net>

Hi Bryan,
I guess I shouldn't set up new programs at 11:30 PM and then ask questions.
This morning I see that it was nothing but misleading. What I was meaning to
ask is where in Outlook do I find the port settings! Its one thing I've
never fiddled with in Outlook and probably the worst thing about Outlook
other than its enormous footprint is the disorganized settings dialogs.

jb

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan
> Carbonnell
> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 4:49 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] K9
>
>
> On 20 Nov 2003 at 23:35, John Bartow wrote:
>
> > due to all of the recommendations I've seen here I'm giving K9 spam
> > filter a try.
> >
> > First question: Listen on Port: 9999
> >
> > How do I know if this is correct?
>
> Because in your e-mail client you are going to tell it to use port
> 9999 instead of 110
>
> --
> Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
> Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, because you are crunchy and
> taste good with ketchup.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>



From bchacc at san.rr.com  Fri Nov 21 09:22:02 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 07:22:02 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen
References: <D3E2A213B8F45B4DAC92EB5FD98ED1EF010EB942@nnse14.nns.com>
Message-ID: <005601c3b043$370ef390$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

Vodka.

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" <Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com>
To: "'[dba-Tech]'" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 6:10 AM
Subject: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


> On my home system, I've loaded XP two separate ways...once with two
created
> logons, and currently (although I know it is "wrong") with just the
default
> Administrator logon.  All service packs, updates have been installed.  All
> is good.
>
> A friend of mine came to me with a startling question.  He had XP loaded
> with all updates, as I do, with just the Administrator account.  However,
> last night, for no apparent reason when he powered on his machine the
logon
> screen was blank except for the shutdown link...no logon icon is present,
> thus he is unable to logon to his machine.  Neither will it boot into safe
> mode.
>
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk  Fri Nov 21 09:24:26 2003
From: Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk (Jon Tydda)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:24:26 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen
Message-ID: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449EC0@ALCUXB>

Good call Rocky :-)

Does hitting Ctrl+Alt+Del bring a log on screen up? Is there anything on
screen at all?


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com]
Sent: 21 November 2003 15:22
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


Vodka.

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" <Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com>
To: "'[dba-Tech]'" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 6:10 AM
Subject: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


> On my home system, I've loaded XP two separate ways...once with two
created
> logons, and currently (although I know it is "wrong") with just the
default
> Administrator logon.  All service packs, updates have been installed.  All
> is good.
>
> A friend of mine came to me with a startling question.  He had XP loaded
> with all updates, as I do, with just the Administrator account.  However,
> last night, for no apparent reason when he powered on his machine the
logon
> screen was blank except for the shutdown link...no logon icon is present,
> thus he is unable to logon to his machine.  Neither will it boot into safe
> mode.
>
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject
to the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
Registered in England and Wales No 4057291

From my.lists at verizon.net  Fri Nov 21 10:25:20 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:25:20 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] WinXP IE6 problems
In-Reply-To: <NGBBLIECOMAKBPEDMKEJKENJFFAA.john@winhaven.net>
References: <NGBBLIECOMAKBPEDMKEJKENJFFAA.john@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <3FBE3C70.2010303@verizon.net>

:D, 
  One thing that quickly comes to mind is to locate the Hosts file and check to see if it has any entries made for google, or msn.  it is possible that since "they" upgraded it that "they" modified the hosts file too.  Just do a standard search for hosts and it should turn up.

additionally if your box is going through a proxy that can also yield undesired effects... however it may have been set to go through a proxy by one of the admins.  additionally also is the IP assinged by the DNS controller or is it hardcoded it?

lastly if it all fails, have them re-format and re-install Windows XP pro, upgrades seldom go well :(


-- 
-Francisco


John Bartow wrote:

>A client's machine that has WinXP and IE6 will cannot search from MSN
>Search, can not get to Google and a number of other search sites. I also
>cannot get to Spybot search and destroy's site from that machine. I had
>loaded it a few months ago and tried to update it and that failed so I tried
>to unistall and reinstall it and that failed. I ran NU Windows Doctor and
>didn't have anything wrong but missing shortcuts (very rarely have I seen a
>machine where NU WD comes up 0 problems). I installed AdAware and found some
>advertising cookies but nothing big and ugly. I scanned it with two
>different Online AV scanners and came up empty. I checked the search
>settings in IE and it all appears normal. Odd thing is, I can use the Google
>powered search on Netscape's page.
>
>I read Francisco's mind and loaded Mozilla 1.5 - same results as IE6.
>;o)
>
>The only thing different about this PC is that it came preloaded with WinXP
>Homely Edition but they have an NT domain it needed to join  so they
>upgraded it to WinXP Pro. Only one like that I've seen.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>jb
>  
>



From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com  Fri Nov 21 10:24:21 2003
From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News))
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:24:21 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen
Message-ID: <D3E2A213B8F45B4DAC92EB5FD98ED1EF010EB946@nnse14.nns.com>

> Does hitting Ctrl+Alt+Del bring a log on screen up?

He is not currently using a domain.  But said he will try that anyway.


> Is there anything on screen at all?

blank except for the shutdown link




I searched using Google and searched the MSKB but found nothing describing
his particular situation.


Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Tydda [mailto:Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk] 
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 10:24 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


Good call Rocky :-)

Does hitting Ctrl+Alt+Del bring a log on screen up? Is there anything on
screen at all?


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com]
Sent: 21 November 2003 15:22
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


Vodka.

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" <Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com>
To: "'[dba-Tech]'" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 6:10 AM
Subject: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


> On my home system, I've loaded XP two separate ways...once with two
created
> logons, and currently (although I know it is "wrong") with just the
default
> Administrator logon.  All service packs, updates have been installed.
> All is good.
>
> A friend of mine came to me with a startling question.  He had XP
> loaded with all updates, as I do, with just the Administrator account.  
> However, last night, for no apparent reason when he powered on his 
> machine the
logon
> screen was blank except for the shutdown link...no logon icon is
> present, thus he is unable to logon to his machine.  Neither will it 
> boot into safe mode.
>
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject to
the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
Registered in England and Wales No 4057291
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk  Fri Nov 21 10:26:53 2003
From: Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk (Jon Tydda)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 16:26:53 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen
Message-ID: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449EC8@ALCUXB>

has he got the original installation cd? Stick that in the hard drive and
run the repair option when it comes up...

If that doesn't cure it, I'd go for a reinstall... 


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com]
Sent: 21 November 2003 16:24
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


> Does hitting Ctrl+Alt+Del bring a log on screen up?

He is not currently using a domain.  But said he will try that anyway.


> Is there anything on screen at all?

blank except for the shutdown link




I searched using Google and searched the MSKB but found nothing describing
his particular situation.


Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Tydda [mailto:Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk] 
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 10:24 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


Good call Rocky :-)

Does hitting Ctrl+Alt+Del bring a log on screen up? Is there anything on
screen at all?


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com]
Sent: 21 November 2003 15:22
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


Vodka.

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" <Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com>
To: "'[dba-Tech]'" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 6:10 AM
Subject: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


> On my home system, I've loaded XP two separate ways...once with two
created
> logons, and currently (although I know it is "wrong") with just the
default
> Administrator logon.  All service packs, updates have been installed.
> All is good.
>
> A friend of mine came to me with a startling question.  He had XP
> loaded with all updates, as I do, with just the Administrator account.  
> However, last night, for no apparent reason when he powered on his 
> machine the
logon
> screen was blank except for the shutdown link...no logon icon is
> present, thus he is unable to logon to his machine.  Neither will it 
> boot into safe mode.
>
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject to
the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
Registered in England and Wales No 4057291
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject
to the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
Registered in England and Wales No 4057291

From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Fri Nov 21 10:30:11 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:30:11 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF03CEE0@stekelbes.ithelps.local>

Did you tried to run XP in Safe mode?

If you currently installed a driver or so, you could remove it when you
are in safe mode.

Press F8 before booting.

Erwin

 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:27 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen

has he got the original installation cd? Stick that in the hard drive
and run the repair option when it comes up...

If that doesn't cure it, I'd go for a reinstall... 


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com]
Sent: 21 November 2003 16:24
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


> Does hitting Ctrl+Alt+Del bring a log on screen up?

He is not currently using a domain.  But said he will try that anyway.


> Is there anything on screen at all?

blank except for the shutdown link




I searched using Google and searched the MSKB but found nothing
describing his particular situation.


Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Tydda [mailto:Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 10:24 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


Good call Rocky :-)

Does hitting Ctrl+Alt+Del bring a log on screen up? Is there anything on
screen at all?


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com]
Sent: 21 November 2003 15:22
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


Vodka.

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" <Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com>
To: "'[dba-Tech]'" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 6:10 AM
Subject: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


> On my home system, I've loaded XP two separate ways...once with two
created
> logons, and currently (although I know it is "wrong") with just the
default
> Administrator logon.  All service packs, updates have been installed.
> All is good.
>
> A friend of mine came to me with a startling question.  He had XP
> loaded with all updates, as I do, with just the Administrator account.

> However, last night, for no apparent reason when he powered on his 
> machine the
logon
> screen was blank except for the shutdown link...no logon icon is
> present, thus he is unable to logon to his machine.  Neither will it 
> boot into safe mode.
>
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject
to
the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
Registered in England and Wales No 4057291
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject
to the legal notice available on request from :
webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
Registered in England and Wales No 4057291
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com  Fri Nov 21 10:43:52 2003
From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News))
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:43:52 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen
Message-ID: <D3E2A213B8F45B4DAC92EB5FD98ED1EF010EB947@nnse14.nns.com>

Jon,
Running the repair option was his second-to-last option.  But, yes, that
appears to be where this is headed.

Erwin,
That was part of the original post.  Boot-up is apparently not recognizing
F8 and he is therefore unable to get to safe mode.  The machine does boot
"properly", but with the exception that no logon account icons are shown.


No offense Jon, but as an aside, isn't it a sad state of affairs when one
feels compelled to ask "has he got the original installation cd?"?



Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: Erwin Craps [mailto:Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be] 
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 11:30 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


Did you tried to run XP in Safe mode?

If you currently installed a driver or so, you could remove it when you are
in safe mode.

Press F8 before booting.

Erwin

 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:27 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen

has he got the original installation cd? Stick that in the hard drive and
run the repair option when it comes up...

If that doesn't cure it, I'd go for a reinstall... 


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com]
Sent: 21 November 2003 16:24
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


> Does hitting Ctrl+Alt+Del bring a log on screen up?

He is not currently using a domain.  But said he will try that anyway.


> Is there anything on screen at all?

blank except for the shutdown link




I searched using Google and searched the MSKB but found nothing describing
his particular situation.


Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Tydda [mailto:Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 10:24 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


Good call Rocky :-)

Does hitting Ctrl+Alt+Del bring a log on screen up? Is there anything on
screen at all?


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com]
Sent: 21 November 2003 15:22
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


Vodka.

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" <Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com>
To: "'[dba-Tech]'" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 6:10 AM
Subject: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


> On my home system, I've loaded XP two separate ways...once with two
created
> logons, and currently (although I know it is "wrong") with just the
default
> Administrator logon.  All service packs, updates have been installed. 
> All is good.
>
> A friend of mine came to me with a startling question.  He had XP 
> loaded with all updates, as I do, with just the Administrator account.

> However, last night, for no apparent reason when he powered on his
> machine the
logon
> screen was blank except for the shutdown link...no logon icon is 
> present, thus he is unable to logon to his machine.  Neither will it 
> boot into safe mode.
>
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject to
the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
Registered in England and Wales No 4057291
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject to
the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk
ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited.
Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ.
Registered in England and Wales No 4057291
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk  Fri Nov 21 10:47:19 2003
From: Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk (Jon Tydda)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 16:47:19 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen
Message-ID: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449ECF@ALCUXB>

Well yes, but here we have one proper version of windows 200 to install
from, we have a select agreement and only one cd for 50 odd pc's. So if we
lose that, I have to call ehad office and get them to burn me another copy.
I've got loads of recovery disks, but they're all for windows XP, and as a
company, we haven't migrated to that yet - as a pc comes in the door, I
format it, install 2k and off we go.


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com]
Sent: 21 November 2003 16:44
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


Jon,
Running the repair option was his second-to-last option.  But, yes, that
appears to be where this is headed.

Erwin,
That was part of the original post.  Boot-up is apparently not recognizing
F8 and he is therefore unable to get to safe mode.  The machine does boot
"properly", but with the exception that no logon account icons are shown.


No offense Jon, but as an aside, isn't it a sad state of affairs when one
feels compelled to ask "has he got the original installation cd?"?



Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: Erwin Craps [mailto:Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be] 
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 11:30 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


Did you tried to run XP in Safe mode?

If you currently installed a driver or so, you could remove it when you are
in safe mode.

Press F8 before booting.

Erwin

 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:27 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen

has he got the original installation cd? Stick that in the hard drive and
run the repair option when it comes up...

If that doesn't cure it, I'd go for a reinstall... 


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com]
Sent: 21 November 2003 16:24
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


> Does hitting Ctrl+Alt+Del bring a log on screen up?

He is not currently using a domain.  But said he will try that anyway.


> Is there anything on screen at all?

blank except for the shutdown link




I searched using Google and searched the MSKB but found nothing describing
his particular situation.


Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Tydda [mailto:Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 10:24 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


Good call Rocky :-)

Does hitting Ctrl+Alt+Del bring a log on screen up? Is there anything on
screen at all?


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com]
Sent: 21 November 2003 15:22
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


Vodka.

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" <Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com>
To: "'[dba-Tech]'" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 6:10 AM
Subject: [dba-Tech] WindowsXP Pro - No Logon Screen


> On my home system, I've loaded XP two separate ways...once with two
created
> logons, and currently (although I know it is "wrong") with just the
default
> Administrator logon.  All service packs, updates have been installed. 
> All is good.
>
> A friend of mine came to me with a startling question.  He had XP 
> loaded with all updates, as I do, with just the Administrator account.

> However, last night, for no apparent reason when he powered on his
> machine the
logon
> screen was blank except for the shutdown link...no logon icon is 
> present, thus he is unable to logon to his machine.  Neither will it 
> boot into safe mode.
>
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

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From john at winhaven.net  Fri Nov 21 11:04:33 2003
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:04:33 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] WinXP IE6 problems
In-Reply-To: <3FBE3C70.2010303@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <NGBBLIECOMAKBPEDMKEJCEOIFFAA.john@winhaven.net>

Francisco:

Thanks for replying.

>   One thing that quickly comes to mind is to locate the Hosts
> file and check to see if it has any entries made for google, or
> msn.  it is possible that since "they" upgraded it that "they"
> modified the hosts file too.  Just do a standard search for hosts
> and it should turn up.
>
I'll check the hosts to make sure but I'm pretty sure I did that when I
first arrived on the scene and it did have things in it besides the
loop-back - I cleared the entries.

> additionally if your box is going through a proxy that can also
> yield undesired effects... however it may have been set to go
> through a proxy by one of the admins.  additionally also is the
> IP assinged by the DNS controller or is it hardcoded it?
>
I set it to use DHCP for the IP address about 6 months ago. They have a
Linksys Router which acts as DHCP server for their cable conneciton.

> lastly if it all fails, have them re-format and re-install
> Windows XP pro, upgrades seldom go well :(
>
The whole scenario is pre-me or I wouldn't have upgraded it. They need a NT
domain like a whole in the head. 5 PCs with simple file sharing is all they
do, p2p would have been fine. There is no admin - just me getting called
when things are a mess. Its not the ideal set-up to say the least. This is
the only XP machine there, the rest are 98/ME.

The part I can't figure is that everything worked fine up until two weeks
ago. I though Mozilla would be the answer but at this point I'm considering
reloading XP pro from scratch. I would prefer not to do that so I'm taking
any and all suggestions first.

Thanks,
JB

>
> --
> -Francisco
>
>
> John Bartow wrote:
>
> >A client's machine that has WinXP and IE6 will cannot search from MSN
> >Search, can not get to Google and a number of other search sites. I also
> >cannot get to Spybot search and destroy's site from that machine. I had
> >loaded it a few months ago and tried to update it and that
> failed so I tried
> >to unistall and reinstall it and that failed. I ran NU Windows Doctor and
> >didn't have anything wrong but missing shortcuts (very rarely
> have I seen a
> >machine where NU WD comes up 0 problems). I installed AdAware
> and found some
> >advertising cookies but nothing big and ugly. I scanned it with two
> >different Online AV scanners and came up empty. I checked the search
> >settings in IE and it all appears normal. Odd thing is, I can
> use the Google
> >powered search on Netscape's page.
> >
> >I read Francisco's mind and loaded Mozilla 1.5 - same results as IE6.
> >;o)
> >
> >The only thing different about this PC is that it came preloaded
> with WinXP
> >Homely Edition but they have an NT domain it needed to join  so they
> >upgraded it to WinXP Pro. Only one like that I've seen.
> >
> >Any ideas?
> >
> >jb
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>



From john at winhaven.net  Fri Nov 21 11:29:58 2003
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:29:58 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] K9
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLAKMHEDAKJKENHKIOEEIENAA.john@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <NGBBLIECOMAKBPEDMKEJMEOIFFAA.john@winhaven.net>

BTW I found them.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow
> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 9:19 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] K9
> 
> 
> Hi Bryan,
> I guess I shouldn't set up new programs at 11:30 PM and then ask 
> questions.
> This morning I see that it was nothing but misleading. What I was 
> meaning to
> ask is where in Outlook do I find the port settings! Its one thing I've
> never fiddled with in Outlook and probably the worst thing about Outlook
> other than its enormous footprint is the disorganized settings dialogs.
> 
> jb
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan
> > Carbonnell
> > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 4:49 AM
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] K9
> >
> >
> > On 20 Nov 2003 at 23:35, John Bartow wrote:
> >
> > > due to all of the recommendations I've seen here I'm giving K9 spam
> > > filter a try.
> > >
> > > First question: Listen on Port: 9999
> > >
> > > How do I know if this is correct?
> >
> > Because in your e-mail client you are going to tell it to use port
> > 9999 instead of 110
> >
> > --
> > Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
> > Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, because you are crunchy and
> > taste good with ketchup.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From my.lists at verizon.net  Fri Nov 21 12:37:13 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:37:13 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] technical question
In-Reply-To: <002501c3aff1$1b43e780$210110ac@SUSANONE>
References: <002501c3aff1$1b43e780$210110ac@SUSANONE>
Message-ID: <3FBE5B59.6020306@verizon.net>

This seems more of a Tech question so I'm cross posting to that list...

First question, what OS are these computers? if it's just Windows 9x (through ME) yes you can just hit cancel and delete all the profile information... however if they are windows 2000 or XP and they don't have a userid password (ie administrator account) well tsk tsk... let them reload it from scratch or at the very lease re-ghost the original image back to the hdd.  That should be common practice anyways for a rented computer, how do you know it has not been hacked or otherwise compromized?? :|

-- 
-Francisco




Susan Harkins wrote:

>If you have a computer that asks for a username and password to sign in and
>you don't know that password, can you use a recovery disk to wipe out the
>password? Will the recovery disk reset everything to the default -- which in
>this case, would actually be a good thing.
>
>Dealing with rented computers -- they need to reset everything when they
>come back in but they don't want to reformat and have to reload
>everything -- just get rid of all the individual user files and log ins. In
>this particular case, they don't have the password, so they can't even get
>in to delete files or clean it up. I suggested a reformat and reloading the
>system software, but this is a rent-a-center with no computer techs -- they
>don't want to do all that.
>
>Susan H.
>  
>


From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Fri Nov 21 19:33:41 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 20:33:41 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] K9
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLAKMHEDAKJKENHKIOEEIENAA.john@winhaven.net>
References: <3FBDA766.32025.12C3C8@localhost>
Message-ID: <3FBE76A5.16502.10AACC@localhost>

On 21 Nov 2003 at 9:18, John Bartow wrote:

> Hi Bryan,
> I guess I shouldn't set up new programs at 11:30 PM and then ask
> questions. This morning I see that it was nothing but misleading. What
> I was meaning to ask is where in Outlook do I find the port settings!
> Its one thing I've never fiddled with in Outlook and probably the
> worst thing about Outlook other than its enormous footprint is the
> disorganized settings dialogs.

Hey, Ho problem John.

We've all done something like that before. Well I have anyway :-)

I'm glad you got it figured out, 'cause my only suggestion would be 
to ditch LookOut :-))

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Never let a computer see you hurry.



From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Fri Nov 21 20:27:44 2003
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:27:44 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Port Monitor
Message-ID: <3FBE8350.31604.422591@localhost>

Does anyone know of a good port monitor? Preferably free.

I am trying to monitor some MySQL connections from PHP/Apache on my 
WinXPP box to see how many connections are being made.

Thanks.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what the 
hell happened. - Cora Harvey Armstrong



From dbatech at wolfwares.com  Fri Nov 21 20:56:41 2003
From: dbatech at wolfwares.com (Drew Wutka)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 20:56:41 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Port Monitor
In-Reply-To: <3FBE8350.31604.422591@localhost>
Message-ID: <HCEKKCDKADBCBMOJIMDHMEMFCJAA.dbatech@wolfwares.com>

The one we use at work is called PortScan (I think...).  Don't know where to
get it though, my co-worker has used it for years, so he just gave me a copy
of it one day.  Don't even know where that copy is....<grin>

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan
Carbonnell
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 8:28 PM
To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: [dba-Tech] Port Monitor


Does anyone know of a good port monitor? Preferably free.

I am trying to monitor some MySQL connections from PHP/Apache on my
WinXPP box to see how many connections are being made.

Thanks.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what the
hell happened. - Cora Harvey Armstrong


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From wdhindman at bellsouth.net  Fri Nov 21 22:39:11 2003
From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:39:11 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Small Business Server 2003
References: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF725F@stekelbes.ithelps.local>
Message-ID: <009a01c3b0b2$930e6fd0$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>

Erwin

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sbs2k/

...best list out there on SBS ...I run a couple of SBS2K installs and these
guys have saved my ass many a time ...lots of threads on 2003 and they have
a pretty good archive.

William Hindman
Government is not reason, government is not persuasion,
government is force. It is a dangerous servant." G. Washington

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Erwin Craps" <Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 9:55 AM
Subject: [dba-Tech] Small Business Server 2003


Hi

Just received my Action Pack with SBS 2003.

Has anyone of you some practical experiences with SBS 2003?
Is it any good/worth it compared to SBS 2000?

How does the upgrade from SBS 2000 or even from SBS 4,5 go? Does it
upgrade smoothly?





Erwin Craps

Zaakvoerder

www.ithelps.be/jonathan



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From my.lists at verizon.net  Sat Nov 22 03:07:43 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 01:07:43 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu Review
Message-ID: <3FBF275F.5090604@verizon.net>

Just bought this awesome cooler
http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/cnps7000a-cu.htm
I had the pleasure of installing it in my Epox k7a+ motherboard, on an 
AMD 2000+.  Previously it was cooled w/ a Volcano 7, which was set to 
cool based on temp, which has been working just the most awesome as 
possible.  My ThermalTake was/is great, it keeps the cpu cool when idle 
at a cool 104F on load when processing DivX it can jump as high as 118F, 
  and when gaming I've only seen it get to 113F

For this cooler the Zalman 7000A-AlCu, Idle is 98F, Gaming is 107F, and 
DivX was 112F. :)  that's tonight, and the best part... it is ultra 
silent.  I've uped the RPMs to Normal mode and the db on the spec sheet 
says 25db's but I can't hear it. in fact the case fans are now louder 
than it, and they are pretty quiet, before it was the Volcano I heard 
all the time :D.

I'll be looking for some whisper quiet fans for the rest of the case now 
;o).


I just wanted to share, btw, I've also invested in the AeroCool DP-101 
which is another ultra silent cooler, that should arive on Tuesday, and 
i'll be able to plug that on an AMD 2600+ on a DFI LanParty Ultra NFII 
:D, currently that thing has a Volcano 11, and man talk about your 
Vacume cleaners :D....

-- 
-Francisco



From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Nov 22 03:09:39 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 04:09:39 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu Review
In-Reply-To: <3FBF275F.5090604@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMEKHFMAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

Interesting design.  I bought a thermaltake silent boost and it is also
noiseless.  I'm thrilled with it.  Bought 2 more for the other machines in
my home office.

Bye bye vacuum cleaner in my ear.  ;-)

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H
Tapia
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 4:08 AM
To: hardware at hardwaregroup.com; Discussion of Hardware and Software
issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu Review


Just bought this awesome cooler
http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/cnps7000a-cu.htm
I had the pleasure of installing it in my Epox k7a+ motherboard, on an
AMD 2000+.  Previously it was cooled w/ a Volcano 7, which was set to
cool based on temp, which has been working just the most awesome as
possible.  My ThermalTake was/is great, it keeps the cpu cool when idle
at a cool 104F on load when processing DivX it can jump as high as 118F,
  and when gaming I've only seen it get to 113F

For this cooler the Zalman 7000A-AlCu, Idle is 98F, Gaming is 107F, and
DivX was 112F. :)  that's tonight, and the best part... it is ultra
silent.  I've uped the RPMs to Normal mode and the db on the spec sheet
says 25db's but I can't hear it. in fact the case fans are now louder
than it, and they are pretty quiet, before it was the Volcano I heard
all the time :D.

I'll be looking for some whisper quiet fans for the rest of the case now
;o).


I just wanted to share, btw, I've also invested in the AeroCool DP-101
which is another ultra silent cooler, that should arive on Tuesday, and
i'll be able to plug that on an AMD 2600+ on a DFI LanParty Ultra NFII
:D, currently that thing has a Volcano 11, and man talk about your
Vacume cleaners :D....

--
-Francisco


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From my.lists at verizon.net  Sat Nov 22 03:45:30 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 01:45:30 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu Review
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMEKHFMAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMEKHFMAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <3FBF303A.1050003@verizon.net>

I did a bit of research on the different designs for these types of 
cooling fans for AMD cpu's, the DP 101 beats out the Silent Boost which 
beats out the CoolerMaster's D-Heatpipe, which actually is louder and 
doesn't work as well.

The Zalman I got is somewhere in between the DP101 and the ThermalTake 
Silent Boost.  My next project is to replace the case fans w/ whisper 
quiet fans, and possibly later the power supply w/ one of those zalman 
silent psu's or something similar.

btw, it's not that I got tired of the noise... it's more that my wife 
keep threating to turn off the PC cuz of the loud fans, well now that 
the new cooler is in i'm going to pay attention to her reaction tomorrow 
  morning :)

-- 
-Francisco


John W. Colby wrote:

> Interesting design.  I bought a thermaltake silent boost and it is also
> noiseless.  I'm thrilled with it.  Bought 2 more for the other machines in
> my home office.
> 
> Bye bye vacuum cleaner in my ear.  ;-)
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H
> Tapia
> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 4:08 AM
> To: hardware at hardwaregroup.com; Discussion of Hardware and Software
> issues
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu Review
> 
> 
> Just bought this awesome cooler
> http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/cnps7000a-cu.htm
> I had the pleasure of installing it in my Epox k7a+ motherboard, on an
> AMD 2000+.  Previously it was cooled w/ a Volcano 7, which was set to
> cool based on temp, which has been working just the most awesome as
> possible.  My ThermalTake was/is great, it keeps the cpu cool when idle
> at a cool 104F on load when processing DivX it can jump as high as 118F,
>   and when gaming I've only seen it get to 113F
> 
> For this cooler the Zalman 7000A-AlCu, Idle is 98F, Gaming is 107F, and
> DivX was 112F. :)  that's tonight, and the best part... it is ultra
> silent.  I've uped the RPMs to Normal mode and the db on the spec sheet
> says 25db's but I can't hear it. in fact the case fans are now louder
> than it, and they are pretty quiet, before it was the Volcano I heard
> all the time :D.
> 
> I'll be looking for some whisper quiet fans for the rest of the case now
> ;o).
> 
> 
> I just wanted to share, btw, I've also invested in the AeroCool DP-101
> which is another ultra silent cooler, that should arive on Tuesday, and
> i'll be able to plug that on an AMD 2600+ on a DFI LanParty Ultra NFII
> :D, currently that thing has a Volcano 11, and man talk about your
> Vacume cleaners :D....
> 
> --
> -Francisco



From bchacc at san.rr.com  Sat Nov 22 10:34:22 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 08:34:22 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
Message-ID: <007201c3b116$7c2c49e0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

Hello:

I'm writing a manual now into which I've dropped a lot of screen shots.  They look much better in color than in black and white.  I think that having Kinko's do these on their color laser might be cost prohibitive.  The manual will be about 150+ pages when done and of course, not all of the pages will require color, although they'll have to charge the color cost for every page.

So now I'm thinking about a color laser printer.  Ink jet would be far too slow if I have to make these manuals in the quantity I'm praying will be necessary.  

Does anyone have any experience or advice on color laser printers?

TIA,

Rocky

From wdhindman at bellsouth.net  Sat Nov 22 13:08:17 2003
From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 14:08:17 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
References: <007201c3b116$7c2c49e0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <002901c3b12b$fcd78a40$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>

Rocky

...watch out for the media costs when you buy a color laser ...and watch the
color print specs ...I have clients with HP 4500s which barely outrun
inkjets on high content color prints ...one moved to a high speed Minolta
w/30ppm color but I doubt you want to spend $12K :)

...have you thought about putting the manual on CD rather than printing it?
...that's what I do now ...if the client wants a paper copy, they can print
it at their time and expense, not mine ...makes revisions much simpler as
well ...HTH :)

William Hindman
Government is not reason, government is not persuasion,
government is force. It is a dangerous servant." G. Washington

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" <bchacc at san.rr.com>
To: "dba-tech" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 11:34 AM
Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser


Hello:

I'm writing a manual now into which I've dropped a lot of screen shots.
They look much better in color than in black and white.  I think that having
Kinko's do these on their color laser might be cost prohibitive.  The manual
will be about 150+ pages when done and of course, not all of the pages will
require color, although they'll have to charge the color cost for every
page.

So now I'm thinking about a color laser printer.  Ink jet would be far too
slow if I have to make these manuals in the quantity I'm praying will be
necessary.

Does anyone have any experience or advice on color laser printers?

TIA,

Rocky
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From kathryn at bassett.net  Sat Nov 22 13:19:51 2003
From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:19:51 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
In-Reply-To: <007201c3b116$7c2c49e0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIMEJIHLAB.kathryn@bassett.net>

Depends on how much you are willing to spend on the laser. About two months ago, I bit the bullet and bought the HP Laserjet 1500L and absolutely love it. Color deskjets have the 3 colors in one cartridge, which means if the blue runs out, you have to replace all the colors. Not so with this baby! There are four toner cartridges in it. So when the blue runs out, you only replace the blue toner. It was $900, and I've already gotten back my $100 rebate, so that makes it $100.

Don't ask me now how I did my calculating since I no longer have my figures, but based on quantities and costs etc, I figured that printing the average color page would be less than 10 cents.

The only negative I have was that when I tried to hook it up with my Linksys, it turns out that it is so new that LinkSys has no drivers for it. Instead I had to buy the HP print server, which cost more than the linksys print server. I haven't had time to hook it up to the router yet, so can't tell you how well the wireless part works. I need to do that, and hope to later this afternoon, so if that is something you need to know about, ask me tomorrow.

--
Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
"Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
kathryn at bassett.net
http://bassett.net  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
> - Beach Access Software
> Sent: 22 Nov 2003 8:34:AM
> To: dba-tech
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
> 
> 
> Hello:
> 
> I'm writing a manual now into which I've dropped a lot of screen shots.  They look 
> much better in color than in black and white.  I think that having Kinko's do these 
> on their color laser might be cost prohibitive.  The manual will be about 150+ pages 
> when done and of course, not all of the pages will require color, although they'll 
> have to charge the color cost for every page.
> 
> So now I'm thinking about a color laser printer.  Ink jet would be far too slow if I 
> have to make these manuals in the quantity I'm praying will be necessary.  
> 
> Does anyone have any experience or advice on color laser printers?
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Rocky
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sat Nov 22 17:02:49 2003
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:02:49 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
In-Reply-To: <002901c3b12b$fcd78a40$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>
Message-ID: <3FC077B9.23485.22D92F@localhost>

On 22 Nov 2003 at 14:08, William Hindman wrote:

> Rocky
> 
> ...watch out for the media costs when you buy a color laser ...and watch the
> color print specs ...I have clients with HP 4500s which barely outrun
> inkjets on high content color prints ...one moved to a high speed Minolta
> w/30ppm color but I doubt you want to spend $12K :)
> 
> ...have you thought about putting the manual on CD rather than printing it?
> ...that's what I do now ...if the client wants a paper copy, they can print
> it at their time and expense, not mine ...makes revisions much simpler as
> well ...HTH :)
> 

I'd go along with that. It's rare to see more than a simple couple of 
pages of "Quick Installation" in hardcopy these days with commercial 
software.  Everyone now sees to be supplying manuals on CD either as 
HTML or PDF.

If you do go that route, I'd definitely use PDF not HTML.. Then the 
user *can* print it out easily - it's a bitch trying go get a 
hardcopy of hundreds of html pags :-(
 
-- 
Lexacorp Ltd
http://www.lexacorp.com.pg
Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System 
Support.




From bchacc at san.rr.com  Sat Nov 22 18:55:10 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 16:55:10 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
References: <007201c3b116$7c2c49e0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
	<002901c3b12b$fcd78a40$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>
Message-ID: <00e601c3b15c$72535f80$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

I thought about delivering it on the CD but for $3k a pop I think they'll
expect a manual in a binder.  Gives the perception of added value anyway.

It is the cartridges that cost.  I can get an HP or Minolta color laser for
about $700.  But the carts are like $100 a piece.

So I'll have to compare to the cost of a copy store.

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "William Hindman" <wdhindman at bellsouth.net>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Color Laser


> Rocky
>
> ...watch out for the media costs when you buy a color laser ...and watch
the
> color print specs ...I have clients with HP 4500s which barely outrun
> inkjets on high content color prints ...one moved to a high speed Minolta
> w/30ppm color but I doubt you want to spend $12K :)
>
> ...have you thought about putting the manual on CD rather than printing
it?
> ...that's what I do now ...if the client wants a paper copy, they can
print
> it at their time and expense, not mine ...makes revisions much simpler as
> well ...HTH :)
>
> William Hindman
> Government is not reason, government is not persuasion,
> government is force. It is a dangerous servant." G. Washington
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" <bchacc at san.rr.com>
> To: "dba-tech" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 11:34 AM
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
>
>
> Hello:
>
> I'm writing a manual now into which I've dropped a lot of screen shots.
> They look much better in color than in black and white.  I think that
having
> Kinko's do these on their color laser might be cost prohibitive.  The
manual
> will be about 150+ pages when done and of course, not all of the pages
will
> require color, although they'll have to charge the color cost for every
> page.
>
> So now I'm thinking about a color laser printer.  Ink jet would be far too
> slow if I have to make these manuals in the quantity I'm praying will be
> necessary.
>
> Does anyone have any experience or advice on color laser printers?
>
> TIA,
>
> Rocky
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From wdhindman at bellsouth.net  Sat Nov 22 19:13:04 2003
From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:13:04 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
References: 	<007201c3b116$7c2c49e0$6501a8c0@HAL9002><002901c3b12b$fcd78a40$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>
	<00e601c3b15c$72535f80$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <001d01c3b15e$f23b2370$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>

...like I said, the media costs will make the purchase price look downright
cheap :(

...even at $3k a pop Rocky, give them the CD in PDF ...charge them an extra
$150+ for bound manuals.

...try Microsoft for instance ...thousands for SBS'03Pro and yet the only
manual is short and sweet ...it essentially tells you how to find what you
want on the CD and what's included in the package ...you can get bound
manuals for extra cost ...get rich quicker, start thinking like Gates! :))))

William Hindman
Government is not reason, government is not persuasion,
government is force. It is a dangerous servant." G. Washington

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" <bchacc at san.rr.com>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Color Laser


> I thought about delivering it on the CD but for $3k a pop I think they'll
> expect a manual in a binder.  Gives the perception of added value anyway.
>
> It is the cartridges that cost.  I can get an HP or Minolta color laser
for
> about $700.  But the carts are like $100 a piece.
>
> So I'll have to compare to the cost of a copy store.
>
> Rocky
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "William Hindman" <wdhindman at bellsouth.net>
> To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
> <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
>
>
> > Rocky
> >
> > ...watch out for the media costs when you buy a color laser ...and watch
> the
> > color print specs ...I have clients with HP 4500s which barely outrun
> > inkjets on high content color prints ...one moved to a high speed
Minolta
> > w/30ppm color but I doubt you want to spend $12K :)
> >
> > ...have you thought about putting the manual on CD rather than printing
> it?
> > ...that's what I do now ...if the client wants a paper copy, they can
> print
> > it at their time and expense, not mine ...makes revisions much simpler
as
> > well ...HTH :)
> >
> > William Hindman
> > Government is not reason, government is not persuasion,
> > government is force. It is a dangerous servant." G. Washington
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" <bchacc at san.rr.com>
> > To: "dba-tech" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 11:34 AM
> > Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
> >
> >
> > Hello:
> >
> > I'm writing a manual now into which I've dropped a lot of screen shots.
> > They look much better in color than in black and white.  I think that
> having
> > Kinko's do these on their color laser might be cost prohibitive.  The
> manual
> > will be about 150+ pages when done and of course, not all of the pages
> will
> > require color, although they'll have to charge the color cost for every
> > page.
> >
> > So now I'm thinking about a color laser printer.  Ink jet would be far
too
> > slow if I have to make these manuals in the quantity I'm praying will be
> > necessary.
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience or advice on color laser printers?
> >
> > TIA,
> >
> > Rocky
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



From john at winhaven.net  Sat Nov 22 20:27:27 2003
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:27:27 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
In-Reply-To: <3FC077B9.23485.22D92F@localhost>
Message-ID: <LPBBLAKMHEDAKJKENHKIEEFEENAA.john@winhaven.net>

Stuart,
Dittos on that idea.  I do PDFs on the install CD and put one in the install
folder with a shortcut to it. I also generally print one hardcopy per
client, but that's really more for looks than anything, no one reads it. I
don't print out a hardcopy for upgrades though. I use Adobe Acrobat 6.0 but
I also have used (and installed pdf955 for clients) it works great and its
free with annoyance screens, 19.95 otherwise.

For training (if you do group training) you will probably have to print out
manuals though.

JB

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart
> McLachlan
> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 5:03 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
>
>
> On 22 Nov 2003 at 14:08, William Hindman wrote:
>
> > Rocky
> >
> > ...watch out for the media costs when you buy a color laser
> ...and watch the
> > color print specs ...I have clients with HP 4500s which barely outrun
> > inkjets on high content color prints ...one moved to a high
> speed Minolta
> > w/30ppm color but I doubt you want to spend $12K :)
> >
> > ...have you thought about putting the manual on CD rather than
> printing it?
> > ...that's what I do now ...if the client wants a paper copy,
> they can print
> > it at their time and expense, not mine ...makes revisions much
> simpler as
> > well ...HTH :)
> >
>
> I'd go along with that. It's rare to see more than a simple couple of
> pages of "Quick Installation" in hardcopy these days with commercial
> software.  Everyone now sees to be supplying manuals on CD either as
> HTML or PDF.
>
> If you do go that route, I'd definitely use PDF not HTML.. Then the
> user *can* print it out easily - it's a bitch trying go get a
> hardcopy of hundreds of html pags :-(
>
> --
> Lexacorp Ltd
> http://www.lexacorp.com.pg
> Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System
> Support.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>



From john at winhaven.net  Sat Nov 22 20:27:27 2003
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:27:27 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
In-Reply-To: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIMEJIHLAB.kathryn@bassett.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLAKMHEDAKJKENHKIGEFEENAA.john@winhaven.net>

Kathryn,
Sounds like a nice unit!

I had a brother inkjet that uses four seperate ink cartridges. I tend to use
more blue because the company logo is blue but even then I rarely changed
the cartridges out for than a couple weeks apart so for me that just was a
hassle - but then inkjet prices are pretty low, I think those cartridges
were $8 a piece. Now I have an HP 1220 and it has the three together but I
refill it myself (buy ink by the quart) so I fill the colors as needed.
Never much difference in what I fill there either. BTW I've been using
refills for almost 4 years with that printer and haven't had an issue with
it.

I used to have a HP Laser 4500 and it had the four seperate colors. They
were big toner containers and it did save some money having them seperate
(laser toner prices are a bit higher). If you use a lot of one color more
than the others you should see the same results.

Good luck


> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn
> Bassett
> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 1:20 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
>
>
> Depends on how much you are willing to spend on the laser. About
> two months ago, I bit the bullet and bought the HP Laserjet 1500L
> and absolutely love it. Color deskjets have the 3 colors in one
> cartridge, which means if the blue runs out, you have to replace
> all the colors. Not so with this baby! There are four toner
> cartridges in it. So when the blue runs out, you only replace the
> blue toner. It was $900, and I've already gotten back my $100
> rebate, so that makes it $100.
>
> Don't ask me now how I did my calculating since I no longer have
> my figures, but based on quantities and costs etc, I figured that
> printing the average color page would be less than 10 cents.
>
> The only negative I have was that when I tried to hook it up with
> my Linksys, it turns out that it is so new that LinkSys has no
> drivers for it. Instead I had to buy the HP print server, which
> cost more than the linksys print server. I haven't had time to
> hook it up to the router yet, so can't tell you how well the
> wireless part works. I need to do that, and hope to later this
> afternoon, so if that is something you need to know about, ask me
> tomorrow.
>
> --
> Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
> "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
> kathryn at bassett.net
> http://bassett.net
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
> > - Beach Access Software
> > Sent: 22 Nov 2003 8:34:AM
> > To: dba-tech
> > Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
> >
> >
> > Hello:
> >
> > I'm writing a manual now into which I've dropped a lot of
> screen shots.  They look
> > much better in color than in black and white.  I think that
> having Kinko's do these
> > on their color laser might be cost prohibitive.  The manual
> will be about 150+ pages
> > when done and of course, not all of the pages will require
> color, although they'll
> > have to charge the color cost for every page.
> >
> > So now I'm thinking about a color laser printer.  Ink jet would
> be far too slow if I
> > have to make these manuals in the quantity I'm praying will be
> necessary.
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience or advice on color laser printers?
> >
> > TIA,
> >
> > Rocky
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>



From john at winhaven.net  Sat Nov 22 20:38:44 2003
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:38:44 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
In-Reply-To: <00e601c3b15c$72535f80$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <LPBBLAKMHEDAKJKENHKIAEFGENAA.john@winhaven.net>

Rocky,
You could have Staples print out and bind one really nice color copy and
supply it (for looks). Then charge them the cost (plus a small markup) for
additional printed manuals.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
> - Beach Access Software
> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 6:55 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
>
>
> I thought about delivering it on the CD but for $3k a pop I think they'll
> expect a manual in a binder.  Gives the perception of added value anyway.
>
> It is the cartridges that cost.  I can get an HP or Minolta color
> laser for
> about $700.  But the carts are like $100 a piece.
>
> So I'll have to compare to the cost of a copy store.
>
> Rocky
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William Hindman" <wdhindman at bellsouth.net>
> To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
> <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
>
>
> > Rocky
> >
> > ...watch out for the media costs when you buy a color laser ...and watch
> the
> > color print specs ...I have clients with HP 4500s which barely outrun
> > inkjets on high content color prints ...one moved to a high
> speed Minolta
> > w/30ppm color but I doubt you want to spend $12K :)
> >
> > ...have you thought about putting the manual on CD rather than printing
> it?
> > ...that's what I do now ...if the client wants a paper copy, they can
> print
> > it at their time and expense, not mine ...makes revisions much
> simpler as
> > well ...HTH :)
> >
> > William Hindman
> > Government is not reason, government is not persuasion,
> > government is force. It is a dangerous servant." G. Washington
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" <bchacc at san.rr.com>
> > To: "dba-tech" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 11:34 AM
> > Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
> >
> >
> > Hello:
> >
> > I'm writing a manual now into which I've dropped a lot of screen shots.
> > They look much better in color than in black and white.  I think that
> having
> > Kinko's do these on their color laser might be cost prohibitive.  The
> manual
> > will be about 150+ pages when done and of course, not all of the pages
> will
> > require color, although they'll have to charge the color cost for every
> > page.
> >
> > So now I'm thinking about a color laser printer.  Ink jet would
> be far too
> > slow if I have to make these manuals in the quantity I'm praying will be
> > necessary.
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience or advice on color laser printers?
> >
> > TIA,
> >
> > Rocky
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>



From bchacc at san.rr.com  Sat Nov 22 21:25:46 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:25:46 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
References: <LPBBLAKMHEDAKJKENHKIAEFGENAA.john@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <011a01c3b171$7c0d67e0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

True.  I sued to do that even with the old system.  Mostly they only need
one manual, though.  (And maybe 25% of THEM get read.)

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Bartow" <john at winhaven.net>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 6:38 PM
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Color Laser


> Rocky,
> You could have Staples print out and bind one really nice color copy and
> supply it (for looks). Then charge them the cost (plus a small markup) for
> additional printed manuals.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
> > - Beach Access Software
> > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 6:55 PM
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
> >
> >
> > I thought about delivering it on the CD but for $3k a pop I think
they'll
> > expect a manual in a binder.  Gives the perception of added value
anyway.
> >
> > It is the cartridges that cost.  I can get an HP or Minolta color
> > laser for
> > about $700.  But the carts are like $100 a piece.
> >
> > So I'll have to compare to the cost of a copy store.
> >
> > Rocky
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "William Hindman" <wdhindman at bellsouth.net>
> > To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
> > <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 11:08 AM
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
> >
> >
> > > Rocky
> > >
> > > ...watch out for the media costs when you buy a color laser ...and
watch
> > the
> > > color print specs ...I have clients with HP 4500s which barely outrun
> > > inkjets on high content color prints ...one moved to a high
> > speed Minolta
> > > w/30ppm color but I doubt you want to spend $12K :)
> > >
> > > ...have you thought about putting the manual on CD rather than
printing
> > it?
> > > ...that's what I do now ...if the client wants a paper copy, they can
> > print
> > > it at their time and expense, not mine ...makes revisions much
> > simpler as
> > > well ...HTH :)
> > >
> > > William Hindman
> > > Government is not reason, government is not persuasion,
> > > government is force. It is a dangerous servant." G. Washington
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" <bchacc at san.rr.com>
> > > To: "dba-tech" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 11:34 AM
> > > Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello:
> > >
> > > I'm writing a manual now into which I've dropped a lot of screen
shots.
> > > They look much better in color than in black and white.  I think that
> > having
> > > Kinko's do these on their color laser might be cost prohibitive.  The
> > manual
> > > will be about 150+ pages when done and of course, not all of the pages
> > will
> > > require color, although they'll have to charge the color cost for
every
> > > page.
> > >
> > > So now I'm thinking about a color laser printer.  Ink jet would
> > be far too
> > > slow if I have to make these manuals in the quantity I'm praying will
be
> > > necessary.
> > >
> > > Does anyone have any experience or advice on color laser printers?
> > >
> > > TIA,
> > >
> > > Rocky
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From djkr at msn.com  Sun Nov 23 03:55:07 2003
From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:55:07 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
In-Reply-To: <007201c3b116$7c2c49e0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <002501c3b1a7$e0771060$bf00a8c0@dabsight>

Hi Rocky

I've been round the loops of delivering on CD, and one-off outsourced copies
for those cases where you need to deliver something smart on paper.  I've
also refilled plenty of inkjet cartridges by hand from bulk, and waited ...
for long print runs.

I bit the bullet last March, and after much studying of reviews and specs, I
invested in a color laser - a Minolta QMS (now Konica Minolta) Magicolor
2300.  Bliss -  I feel as though I've moved to a new planet!

Sure, toner cartridges are expensive, but in my limited experience with the
2300 they last much longer than the manufacturer says.  I don't print a lot
of color photos, but most of my printing has a color content, including
screen shots;  much of it is technical stuff, including web pages and some
"glossies" loaded with color, plus maps, spreadsheets with conditional
formatting (color), music, address labels with color logo, etc, etc.  

The printer comes with low-capacity "1,500-page" cartridges (four: CMYK)  So
far I've replaced *only* the black cartridge, at 2,700pp.  I've printed over
5,000 pages!  If the predicted remaining life of the color cartridges is
equally pessimistic, then the cyan might go to 10,000 pages, and the magenta
and yellow 15,000 pages.  You may have to wait many months before I can
accurately calculate the cost per page!

Going to a color laser (this one, anyway) has lifted my productivity - and
spirits - like ..., like ..., like going to ADSL from a modem, and without
costing as much as I expected.  Go for it!

HTH
John


> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of 
> Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
> Sent: 22 November 2003 16:34
> To: dba-tech
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
> 
> 
> Hello:
> 
> I'm writing a manual now into which I've dropped a lot of 
> screen shots.  They look much better in color than in black 
> and white.  I think that having Kinko's do these on their 
> color laser might be cost prohibitive.  The manual will be 
> about 150+ pages when done and of course, not all of the 
> pages will require color, although they'll have to charge the 
> color cost for every page.
> 
> So now I'm thinking about a color laser printer.  Ink jet 
> would be far too slow if I have to make these manuals in the 
> quantity I'm praying will be necessary.  
> 
> Does anyone have any experience or advice on color laser printers?
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Rocky
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/d> ba-tech
> 
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 

From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Sun Nov 23 09:53:41 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:53:41 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Small Business Server 2003
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF03CEE3@stekelbes.ithelps.local>

Thank you, I'll take a deep look... 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William
Hindman
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 5:39 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Small Business Server 2003

Erwin

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sbs2k/

...best list out there on SBS ...I run a couple of SBS2K installs and
these guys have saved my ass many a time ...lots of threads on 2003 and
they have a pretty good archive.

William Hindman
Government is not reason, government is not persuasion, government is
force. It is a dangerous servant." G. Washington

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erwin Craps" <Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 9:55 AM
Subject: [dba-Tech] Small Business Server 2003


Hi

Just received my Action Pack with SBS 2003.

Has anyone of you some practical experiences with SBS 2003?
Is it any good/worth it compared to SBS 2000?

How does the upgrade from SBS 2000 or even from SBS 4,5 go? Does it
upgrade smoothly?





Erwin Craps

Zaakvoerder

www.ithelps.be/jonathan



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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From bchacc at san.rr.com  Sun Nov 23 10:11:16 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 08:11:16 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
References: <002501c3b1a7$e0771060$bf00a8c0@dabsight>
Message-ID: <004101c3b1dc$6c49e750$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

DK:

How much was your printer? I think I saw it for $600-800 on the web
somewhere, IIRC.

Someone else said that the color laser pages tend to stick together under
some conditions - heat or humidity or something.  Have you seen this?

Regards,

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DJK(John) Robinson" <djkr at msn.com>
To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 1:55 AM
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Color Laser


> Hi Rocky
>
> I've been round the loops of delivering on CD, and one-off outsourced
copies
> for those cases where you need to deliver something smart on paper.  I've
> also refilled plenty of inkjet cartridges by hand from bulk, and waited
...
> for long print runs.
>
> I bit the bullet last March, and after much studying of reviews and specs,
I
> invested in a color laser - a Minolta QMS (now Konica Minolta) Magicolor
> 2300.  Bliss -  I feel as though I've moved to a new planet!
>
> Sure, toner cartridges are expensive, but in my limited experience with
the
> 2300 they last much longer than the manufacturer says.  I don't print a
lot
> of color photos, but most of my printing has a color content, including
> screen shots;  much of it is technical stuff, including web pages and some
> "glossies" loaded with color, plus maps, spreadsheets with conditional
> formatting (color), music, address labels with color logo, etc, etc.
>
> The printer comes with low-capacity "1,500-page" cartridges (four: CMYK)
So
> far I've replaced *only* the black cartridge, at 2,700pp.  I've printed
over
> 5,000 pages!  If the predicted remaining life of the color cartridges is
> equally pessimistic, then the cyan might go to 10,000 pages, and the
magenta
> and yellow 15,000 pages.  You may have to wait many months before I can
> accurately calculate the cost per page!
>
> Going to a color laser (this one, anyway) has lifted my productivity - and
> spirits - like ..., like ..., like going to ADSL from a modem, and without
> costing as much as I expected.  Go for it!
>
> HTH
> John
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
> > Sent: 22 November 2003 16:34
> > To: dba-tech
> > Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
> >
> >
> > Hello:
> >
> > I'm writing a manual now into which I've dropped a lot of
> > screen shots.  They look much better in color than in black
> > and white.  I think that having Kinko's do these on their
> > color laser might be cost prohibitive.  The manual will be
> > about 150+ pages when done and of course, not all of the
> > pages will require color, although they'll have to charge the
> > color cost for every page.
> >
> > So now I'm thinking about a color laser printer.  Ink jet
> > would be far too slow if I have to make these manuals in the
> > quantity I'm praying will be necessary.
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience or advice on color laser printers?
> >
> > TIA,
> >
> > Rocky
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/d> ba-tech
> >
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From djkr at msn.com  Sun Nov 23 11:03:41 2003
From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 17:03:41 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
In-Reply-To: <004101c3b1dc$6c49e750$6501a8c0@HAL9002>
Message-ID: <004001c3b1e3$bf131fe0$bf00a8c0@dabsight>

Rocky

I'm in the UK, so everything is more expensive, but that sounds about right.
Mine is the networked one (2300DL), so more expensive than the standard
2300W.

Without looking for lowest prices, I can find the 2300W at GBP 455.90, and
mine at GBP 586.33

I've not had any sticking problems at all, but our heat+humidity is nothing
like where I used to live - just outside NYC.

Cheers
John


> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of 
> Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
> Sent: 23 November 2003 16:11
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
> 
> 
> DK:
> 
> How much was your printer? I think I saw it for $600-800 on 
> the web somewhere, IIRC.
> 
> Someone else said that the color laser pages tend to stick 
> together under some conditions - heat or humidity or 
> something.  Have you seen this?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Rocky
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "DJK(John) Robinson" <djkr at msn.com>
> To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" 
> <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 1:55 AM
> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
> 
> 
> > Hi Rocky
> >
> > I've been round the loops of delivering on CD, and one-off 
> outsourced
> copies
> > for those cases where you need to deliver something smart 
> on paper.  
> > I've also refilled plenty of inkjet cartridges by hand from 
> bulk, and 
> > waited
> ...
> > for long print runs.
> >
> > I bit the bullet last March, and after much studying of reviews and 
> > specs,
> I
> > invested in a color laser - a Minolta QMS (now Konica Minolta) 
> > Magicolor 2300.  Bliss -  I feel as though I've moved to a 
> new planet!
> >
> > Sure, toner cartridges are expensive, but in my limited experience 
> > with
> the
> > 2300 they last much longer than the manufacturer says.  I 
> don't print 
> > a
> lot
> > of color photos, but most of my printing has a color content, 
> > including screen shots;  much of it is technical stuff, 
> including web 
> > pages and some "glossies" loaded with color, plus maps, 
> spreadsheets 
> > with conditional formatting (color), music, address labels 
> with color 
> > logo, etc, etc.
> >
> > The printer comes with low-capacity "1,500-page" cartridges (four: 
> > CMYK)
> So
> > far I've replaced *only* the black cartridge, at 2,700pp.  I've 
> > printed
> over
> > 5,000 pages!  If the predicted remaining life of the color 
> cartridges 
> > is equally pessimistic, then the cyan might go to 10,000 pages, and 
> > the
> magenta
> > and yellow 15,000 pages.  You may have to wait many months before I 
> > can accurately calculate the cost per page!
> >
> > Going to a color laser (this one, anyway) has lifted my 
> productivity - 
> > and spirits - like ..., like ..., like going to ADSL from a 
> modem, and 
> > without costing as much as I expected.  Go for it!
> >
> > HTH
> > John
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky 
> > > Smolin - Beach Access Software
> > > Sent: 22 November 2003 16:34
> > > To: dba-tech
> > > Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello:
> > >
> > > I'm writing a manual now into which I've dropped a lot of screen 
> > > shots.  They look much better in color than in black and 
> white.  I 
> > > think that having Kinko's do these on their color laser might be 
> > > cost prohibitive.  The manual will be about 150+ pages 
> when done and 
> > > of course, not all of the pages will require color, 
> although they'll 
> > > have to charge the color cost for every page.
> > >
> > > So now I'm thinking about a color laser printer.  Ink jet 
> would be 
> > > far too slow if I have to make these manuals in the quantity I'm 
> > > praying will be necessary.
> > >
> > > Does anyone have any experience or advice on color laser printers?
> > >
> > > TIA,
> > >
> > > Rocky
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/d> ba-tech
> > >
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/d> ba-tech
> 
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 

From Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk  Mon Nov 24 03:20:55 2003
From: Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk (Jon Tydda)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:20:55 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
Message-ID: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449ED3@ALCUXB>

Yeah, the cartridges cost, but you should be getting about 10,000 prints for
that.

Look through your catalogues at number of pages per cartridge, then compare
the prices.


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com]
Sent: 23 November 2003 00:55
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Color Laser


I thought about delivering it on the CD but for $3k a pop I think they'll
expect a manual in a binder.  Gives the perception of added value anyway.

It is the cartridges that cost.  I can get an HP or Minolta color laser for
about $700.  But the carts are like $100 a piece.

So I'll have to compare to the cost of a copy store.

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "William Hindman" <wdhindman at bellsouth.net>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Color Laser


> Rocky
>
> ...watch out for the media costs when you buy a color laser ...and watch
the
> color print specs ...I have clients with HP 4500s which barely outrun
> inkjets on high content color prints ...one moved to a high speed Minolta
> w/30ppm color but I doubt you want to spend $12K :)
>
> ...have you thought about putting the manual on CD rather than printing
it?
> ...that's what I do now ...if the client wants a paper copy, they can
print
> it at their time and expense, not mine ...makes revisions much simpler as
> well ...HTH :)
>
> William Hindman
> Government is not reason, government is not persuasion,
> government is force. It is a dangerous servant." G. Washington
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" <bchacc at san.rr.com>
> To: "dba-tech" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 11:34 AM
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Color Laser
>
>
> Hello:
>
> I'm writing a manual now into which I've dropped a lot of screen shots.
> They look much better in color than in black and white.  I think that
having
> Kinko's do these on their color laser might be cost prohibitive.  The
manual
> will be about 150+ pages when done and of course, not all of the pages
will
> require color, although they'll have to charge the color cost for every
> page.
>
> So now I'm thinking about a color laser printer.  Ink jet would be far too
> slow if I have to make these manuals in the quantity I'm praying will be
> necessary.
>
> Does anyone have any experience or advice on color laser printers?
>
> TIA,
>
> Rocky
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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From artful at rogers.com  Mon Nov 24 14:32:29 2003
From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:32:29 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
In-Reply-To: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449ED3@ALCUXB>
Message-ID: <002601c3b2ca$150f2d80$6701a8c0@rock>

Really way OT even for this list, but I just had to share it. Light has
been observed (under special conditions) to travel as slowly as 91 m/s
(meters per second). The phenomenon of slow light was discovered several
years ago but we don't have real-world applications yet. So the next
time some smart ass says the speed of light is 186 miles/second you can
reply, "It depends." :-)

http://www.aip.org/tip/INPHFA/vol-9/iss-5/p20.html

Arthur



From artful at rogers.com  Mon Nov 24 14:37:05 2003
From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:37:05 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Question about Radio technology
In-Reply-To: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449ED3@ALCUXB>
Message-ID: <002701c3b2ca$b93bae60$6701a8c0@rock>

Someone asked me to explain the difference between AM, FM and short wave
and I suddenly realized that I have huge gaps in my alleged knowledge of
same. Can someone point me to a net-splanation or supply one?

TIA,
Arthur



From my.lists at verizon.net  Mon Nov 24 11:54:48 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:54:48 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Re: [] AV Software on Servers [was Redemption DLL ]
In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022275CE@main2.marlow.com>
References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022275CE@main2.marlow.com>
Message-ID: <3FC245E8.8030701@verizon.net>

Drew, thanks for pushing Trend.  I've been using Trend Micro since 1997, I had PcCillin bundeled w/ my Pcchips board.  while the board was crap, the antivirus software never was, I later bought a product for my former win98 machine called FixIt Utilities, which had a newere copy of TrendMicro bundled in, I used that software for ages until it became obsolelte.  Now i'm running TrendMicro PcCillin 2003 on my home PC, and I love it' speed reliability and stability.  This copy came bundled w/ a firewall, which I must admit I don't use.  I'm using Sygate Personal Firewall and it's done an awesome job, no need to stray w/ something that is working efficiently :D


-- 
-Francisco


Drew Wutka wrote:

>I love everything we use from Trend, with the exception of eManager, which
>is a spam blocking 'add-in' for ScanMail.  Don't get me wrong, it works, as
>well as most of the stuff I've seen out there, but that's the problem.  It's
>not stellar! <grin>
>
>Drew
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net]
>Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 8:32 PM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] AV Software on Servers [was Redemption DLL ]
>
>
>Drew,
>Thanks for the info, sounds like a rock solid server app.
>
>jb
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
>>Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 7:24 PM
>>To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] AV Software on Servers [was Redemption DLL ]
>>
>>
>>Yes, ScanMail will scan the files within a zip file.  You can even set how
>>deep you want it to scan (for zips within zips).  I think we are set to 5
>>levels.  We have never blocked .zip files, and I certainly don't plan on
>>starting.  We do block any extension that can be run off the bat, such as
>>.exe, .com, .bat, etc.  Those are blocked simply as a buffer, since brand
>>new viruses aren't caught until Trend updates their patterns
>>(which they do
>>pretty fast).  Once a virus is in the pattern though, it will strip it out
>>of zip files.
>>
>>Drew
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net]
>>Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 10:03 AM
>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] AV Software on Servers [was Redemption DLL ]
>>
>>
>>That's a shame.
>>
>>I would think that security and productivity should have at least equal
>>priority in the work place :o)
>>
>>For true security to ever happen the email security people are
>>going to have
>>to start identifying what's in a zip file rather than the fact that its a
>>zip file. Most AV scanners can already scan zip contents so I would think
>>that if a message came through with a zip attachment that the zip
>>attachment's contents could be scanned for problems rather than just
>>assuming that its a problem because its a zip. Even if they
>>pulled the email
>>aside and processed it out of stream rather than doing it directly and
>>clogging up the system it would be preferable to just deleting it!
>>
>>Hey Drew can Trend Micro's system do that?
>>
>>Of course if they scan the zip - then .mdbs can't be considered dangerous
>>either. FMS has a free virus scanner for .mdbs I wonder if its worthwhile?
>>If one could write a script to scan .mdbs with FMS AV scanner it could
>>eliminating the whole annoying process of not allowing .mdb
>>attachments. (Of
>>course I always zip my mdbs because they usually compress about 80% so I'm
>>back to the first argument...   now I'm just babbling...
>>:o)
>>
>>What say we get some big company to put a bounty out on the heads of virus
>>writers?
>>;o)
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid
>>>Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 8:23 AM
>>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] AV Software on Servers [was Redemption DLL ]
>>>
>>>
>>>Thats just how we do it in work. PITA but gets us past the email people.
>>>
>>>Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Oh, yes, there always have to have some people that overdo everything,
>>>>beside scanning .mdb how about not allowing .zip extensions in email?!
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Then
>>>      
>>>
>>>>of course you have people who resort to changing the file extension on
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>your
>>>      
>>>
>>>>zipped files to .txt and instructing the person on other end to
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>change it
>>>      
>>>
>>>>back. That's good covenient security.
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>MartyConnelly
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 1:39 AM
>>>>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>>>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] AV Software on Servers [was Redemption DLL ]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Depends on what file extensions are scanned on a network
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>server. I keep
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>a special stick to poke network guys who insist on scanning
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>ldb and mdb
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>file types among others. Scanning a 300MB file on-access can bring
>>>>>things to a grinding halt.
>>>>>
>>>>>Stuart McLachlan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 20 Nov 2003 at 20:40, John W. Colby wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Stuart,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I personally don't say it has no place in the world.  The
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>unfortunate
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>>reality is that there are millions of machines out there used
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>by individuals
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>in their homes (or small office) who are too ignorant to run
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>virus checkers.
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>THESE users should indeed install the service patch so that
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>they only screw
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>up their own machines when the virus hits them.  It simply has
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>no place in a
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>business where they should be running AV software.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Which brings us on to another question, prompted recently by a
>>>>>>client.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What is your option on running anti-virus software on network
>>>>>>servers?
>>>>>>(Assuming that you do run on-access scanning software on the
>>>>>>workstations)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Note:
>>>>>>X-posted to <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
>>>>>>All follow ups to that list only. Please!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>Marty Connelly
>>>>>Victoria, B.C.
>>>>>Canada
>>>>>          
>>>>>


From Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de  Mon Nov 24 11:56:54 2003
From: Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:56:54 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Question about Radio technology
References: <002701c3b2ca$b93bae60$6701a8c0@rock>
Message-ID: <016f01c3b2b5$236d0d80$0200a8c0@S856>

AM is amplitude modulation
the amplitude of the transmitter frequency is modulated with the (audio) signal
to be transmitted.
the receiver then uses a rectifier to get the signal back
AM bands are long wave (around 100 to 150 kHz, IIRC), medium wave where you have
most of the radio stations, short wave where you have HAM radio and stations
that sent to very high distances. Short wave is used for sending around the
world because the short wave is reflected in the higher level of the atmosphere,
then again on the earth and back up, thus can trabel around the world, while the
lower frequencies go straight only.
FM  is frequency modulation, that is, the signal is used to change the frequency
of the transmitter while the amplitude stays constant. therefore amplitude
changes do not influence the audio signal, and the received audio signal is
independent of most noise 8which would influence the amplitude only.

dont know whether this was clear enough. otherwise feel free to ask

Lembit Soobik

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arthur Fuller" <artful at rogers.com>
To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 9:37 PM
Subject: [dba-Tech] Question about Radio technology


> Someone asked me to explain the difference between AM, FM and short wave
> and I suddenly realized that I have huge gaps in my alleged knowledge of
> same. Can someone point me to a net-splanation or supply one?
>
> TIA,
> Arthur
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



From bchacc at san.rr.com  Mon Nov 24 12:34:01 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:34:01 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
References: <002601c3b2ca$150f2d80$6701a8c0@rock>
Message-ID: <007901c3b2b9$87e7b8b0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

186,000 mi/sec is the speed of light in a vacuum.  In other media it is
slower.

Sometimes radiation can go faster than the speed of light!  But not really -
Google "Cherenkov Radiation'.

And there is something that can move faster than the speed of light.  If you
insert a plane perpendicular to the propagation of a spreading wave of light
and then take a section perpendicular to that plane in the plane of the
light source, the convex curved wave front of the propagating light
intersects that line at two points which spread outward as the curved wave
front passes it.  The two points of intersection actually move outward
faster than the speed of light.  Simply geometry demonstrates this.

But it's actually a mathematical construct.  Although that point of
intersection does move faster than the speed of light, apparently it doesn't
violate relativity.

Rocky

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arthur Fuller" <artful at rogers.com>
To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 12:32 PM
Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light


> Really way OT even for this list, but I just had to share it. Light has
> been observed (under special conditions) to travel as slowly as 91 m/s
> (meters per second). The phenomenon of slow light was discovered several
> years ago but we don't have real-world applications yet. So the next
> time some smart ass says the speed of light is 186 miles/second you can
> reply, "It depends." :-)
>
> http://www.aip.org/tip/INPHFA/vol-9/iss-5/p20.html
>
> Arthur
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de  Mon Nov 24 12:13:13 2003
From: Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:13:13 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook Express Attachments
References: <002701c3b2ca$b93bae60$6701a8c0@rock>
Message-ID: <017501c3b2b6$a0244770$0200a8c0@S856>

on one of my PCs (win2k)
when I receive mail with attachments and I click on that paper-clip to open the
attachment, the name of the attachment is greyed out and i cnnot open it,
however it is there
for example when I get a photo as att., the photo shows in the mail body window.
the same mail, received on a different computer does not have this problem.
it really started with this behaviour on some mails only and now its on all.
anybody have any idea where to start searching?
thanks
Lembit Soobik



From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk  Mon Nov 24 13:16:25 2003
From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 11:16:25 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook Express Attachments
References: <002701c3b2ca$b93bae60$6701a8c0@rock>
	<017501c3b2b6$a0244770$0200a8c0@S856>
Message-ID: <000901c3b2bf$75ba57f0$d0f66e51@martin1>

Tools -> Options then security tab. Look for a check box re not opening
attachments.

Martin


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lembit Soobik" <Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 10:13 AM
Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook Express Attachments


> on one of my PCs (win2k)
> when I receive mail with attachments and I click on that paper-clip to
open the
> attachment, the name of the attachment is greyed out and i cnnot open it,
> however it is there
> for example when I get a photo as att., the photo shows in the mail body
window.
> the same mail, received on a different computer does not have this
problem.
> it really started with this behaviour on some mails only and now its on
all.
> anybody have any idea where to start searching?
> thanks
> Lembit Soobik
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From john at winhaven.net  Mon Nov 24 13:48:56 2003
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:48:56 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook Express Attachments
In-Reply-To: <000901c3b2bf$75ba57f0$d0f66e51@martin1>
Message-ID: <NGBBLIECOMAKBPEDMKEJEEBEFGAA.john@winhaven.net>

Exactly. One of the Windows Critical Updates included this - MS decided for
you that this should be turned on. Hmmm...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 1:16 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Outlook Express Attachments
>
>
> Tools -> Options then security tab. Look for a check box re not opening
> attachments.
>
> Martin



From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Nov 24 15:11:05 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:11:05 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
In-Reply-To: <002601c3b2ca$150f2d80$6701a8c0@rock>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPOEDDFNAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

>So the next time some smart ass says the speed of light is 186 miles/second
you can reply, "It depends." :-)

Uh, that would be 186 THOUSAND miles per second.  Perhaps in some slow
medium....

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 3:32 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light


Really way OT even for this list, but I just had to share it. Light has
been observed (under special conditions) to travel as slowly as 91 m/s
(meters per second). The phenomenon of slow light was discovered several
years ago but we don't have real-world applications yet. So the next
time some smart ass says the speed of light is 186 miles/second you can
reply, "It depends." :-)

http://www.aip.org/tip/INPHFA/vol-9/iss-5/p20.html

Arthur


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Mon Nov 24 16:05:33 2003
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:05:33 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Question about Radio technology
In-Reply-To: <002701c3b2ca$b93bae60$6701a8c0@rock>
References: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449ED3@ALCUXB>
Message-ID: <3FC30D4D.2865.287FE0@localhost>

On 24 Nov 2003 at 12:37, Arthur Fuller wrote:

> Someone asked me to explain the difference between AM, FM and short wave
> and I suddenly realized that I have huge gaps in my alleged knowledge of
> same. Can someone point me to a net-splanation or supply one?
> 

AM = Amplitude modulation. The signal is on a set frequency and the 
information in encoded by varying the strength of it (the amplitude 
of the wave).

FM = Frequency modulation.  The information is encoded by varying the 
radio frequency


The radio portion of the electromagnetic spectrum is divided into a 
series of bands:

Very low VLF 3 to 30 KHz 
Low LF 30 to 300 KHz 
Medium MF 300 to 3000 KHz 
High HF 3 to 30 MHz 
Very high VHF 30 to 300 MHz 
Ultrahigh UHF 300 to 3000 MHz 
Super high SHF 3 to 30 GHz 
Extremely high EHF 30 to 300 GHz  

These bands are also named according to the length of the waves (ie 
the reciprocal of the frequency)

As the frequency decreases (and the wave length increases) the 
effective distance at which the signal can be received increases. UHF 
is very much "line of sight". By the time you get down to HF, the 
signal can be bounced off the ionosphere, so can be used over very 
long distances. 

FM uses VHF frequencies
AM is used over the full range of frquncies.

"Shortwave" is another name for the AM HF band. This is the band used 
by long range broadcasts and amatuer radio.





 
-- 
Lexacorp Ltd
http://www.lexacorp.com.pg
Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System 
Support.




From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Nov 24 18:03:30 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:03:30 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Question about Radio technology
In-Reply-To: <002701c3b2ca$b93bae60$6701a8c0@rock>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPEEDOFNAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

AM:  Amplitude modulation.  Modulation of the SIZE of the wave caries the
information you wish to transmit.
FM:  Frequency Modulation.  Modulation of the FREQUENCY of the wave carries
the information you wish to transmit.
Short wave:  hmmm... really pretty meaningless.  Long wave was an old
"classification" for all frequencies under about 2 mhz if I'm not mistaken,
iow anything in or below the AM band.  Short wave was 2 mhz and above.

So, AM and FM are methods of modulating a carrier to impress information on
the carrier.  Long wave / short wave are just old terms for "bands" of
carrier frequencies that were available to amateur radio operators.

Bear in mind all this is OLD knowledge, from my high school days.

http://www.arrl.org/ is the home page of the Amateur Radio Relay League, the
organization that radio operators rely on for their interests.

I got my start in Electronics because a friend of my grandmother gave me a
bunch of old WWII radio equipment - ARC5 tube radios that went in airplanes.
This was 1969, I was a freshman in high school, and I thought these things
were worth thousands of dollars.  They weren't, in fact they were already
pretty much valueless, but it inspired me to study the ARRL manual and learn
Electronic Theory (such as it was in the books from the late 50s that I also
received).  By the time I left High School, I was able to teach the HS
electronics course when the teacher was out sick and they called in a sub
(who knew nothing of course).

Joined the Navy, learned to fix all the components of big computer centers,
and it was all downhill from there.

I got out of electronics in 1986 however and haven't used it much since.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 3:37 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] Question about Radio technology


Someone asked me to explain the difference between AM, FM and short wave
and I suddenly realized that I have huge gaps in my alleged knowledge of
same. Can someone point me to a net-splanation or supply one?

TIA,
Arthur


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From kathryn at bassett.net  Mon Nov 24 20:28:10 2003
From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:28:10 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Question about Radio technology
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPEEDOFNAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIMEBFHMAB.kathryn@bassett.net>

JC said:
> http://www.arrl.org/ is the home page of the Amateur Radio Relay League, the
> organization that radio operators rely on for their interests.
> I got my start in Electronics because a friend of my grandmother gave me a
> bunch of old WWII radio equipment - ARC5 tube radios that went in airplanes.
> This was 1969, I was a freshman in high school, and I thought these things
> were worth thousands of dollars.  They weren't, in fact they were already
> pretty much valueless, but it inspired me to study the ARRL manual and learn
> Electronic Theory (such as it was in the books from the late 50s that I also
> received).  By the time I left High School, I was able to teach the HS
> electronics course when the teacher was out sick and they called in a sub
> (who knew nothing of course).

You did all that studying and didn't finish up enough to get your Ham license?

KD6KFA
--
Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
"Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
kathryn at bassett.net
http://bassett.net  



From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Nov 24 21:02:57 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:02:57 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Question about Radio technology
In-Reply-To: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIMEBFHMAB.kathryn@bassett.net>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPCEEFFNAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

Believe it or not, the morse code stopped my.  I just spent so much time on
the electronics (which I loved) and never got my morse above 10 words a
minute.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn
Bassett
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 9:28 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Question about Radio technology


JC said:
> http://www.arrl.org/ is the home page of the Amateur Radio Relay League,
the
> organization that radio operators rely on for their interests.
> I got my start in Electronics because a friend of my grandmother gave me a
> bunch of old WWII radio equipment - ARC5 tube radios that went in
airplanes.
> This was 1969, I was a freshman in high school, and I thought these things
> were worth thousands of dollars.  They weren't, in fact they were already
> pretty much valueless, but it inspired me to study the ARRL manual and
learn
> Electronic Theory (such as it was in the books from the late 50s that I
also
> received).  By the time I left High School, I was able to teach the HS
> electronics course when the teacher was out sick and they called in a sub
> (who knew nothing of course).

You did all that studying and didn't finish up enough to get your Ham
license?

KD6KFA
--
Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
"Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
kathryn at bassett.net
http://bassett.net


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From kathryn at bassett.net  Mon Nov 24 21:16:58 2003
From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:16:58 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Question about Radio technology
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPCEEFFNAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <JGENLKHHDJPDMMDICAKIMEBKHMAB.kathryn@bassett.net>

No longer needed, you know. At least for the entry level license. And probably within the next couple years, it won't be a requirement at all.

Also, currently, for the next level, it's only 5 wpm.

--
Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
"Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
kathryn at bassett.net
http://bassett.net  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby
> Sent: 24 Nov 2003 7:03:PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Question about Radio technology
> 
> 
> Believe it or not, the morse code stopped my.  I just spent so much time on
> the electronics (which I loved) and never got my morse above 10 words a
> minute.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com


From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Tue Nov 25 01:23:56 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:23:56 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Question about Radio technology
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF03CEFA@stekelbes.ithelps.local>

And with Micro waves you can cook things :-) 

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens Lembit Soobik
Verzonden: maandag 24 november 2003 18:57
Aan: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Onderwerp: Re: [dba-Tech] Question about Radio technology

AM is amplitude modulation
the amplitude of the transmitter frequency is modulated with the (audio)
signal to be transmitted.
the receiver then uses a rectifier to get the signal back AM bands are
long wave (around 100 to 150 kHz, IIRC), medium wave where you have most
of the radio stations, short wave where you have HAM radio and stations
that sent to very high distances. Short wave is used for sending around
the world because the short wave is reflected in the higher level of the
atmosphere, then again on the earth and back up, thus can trabel around
the world, while the lower frequencies go straight only.
FM  is frequency modulation, that is, the signal is used to change the
frequency of the transmitter while the amplitude stays constant.
therefore amplitude changes do not influence the audio signal, and the
received audio signal is independent of most noise 8which would
influence the amplitude only.

dont know whether this was clear enough. otherwise feel free to ask

Lembit Soobik

----- Original Message -----
From: "Arthur Fuller" <artful at rogers.com>
To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 9:37 PM
Subject: [dba-Tech] Question about Radio technology


> Someone asked me to explain the difference between AM, FM and short
wave
> and I suddenly realized that I have huge gaps in my alleged knowledge
of
> same. Can someone point me to a net-splanation or supply one?
>
> TIA,
> Arthur
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de  Tue Nov 25 04:03:58 2003
From: Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:03:58 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook Express Attachments
References: <NGBBLIECOMAKBPEDMKEJEEBEFGAA.john@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <020d01c3b33b$71c9d180$0200a8c0@S856>

thanks John,
now I understand why it suddenly started
Lembit Soobik

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Bartow" <john at winhaven.net>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 8:48 PM
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Outlook Express Attachments


> Exactly. One of the Windows Critical Updates included this - MS decided for
> you that this should be turned on. Hmmm...
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid
> > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 1:16 PM
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Outlook Express Attachments
> >
> >
> > Tools -> Options then security tab. Look for a check box re not opening
> > attachments.
> >
> > Martin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



From Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de  Tue Nov 25 04:03:07 2003
From: Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:03:07 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook Express Attachments
References: 	<002701c3b2ca$b93bae60$6701a8c0@rock><017501c3b2b6$a0244770$0200a8c0@S856>
	<000901c3b2bf$75ba57f0$d0f66e51@martin1>
Message-ID: <020701c3b33b$53ab3f40$0200a8c0@S856>

thank you Martin,
that was it
Lembit Soobik

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Martin Reid" <mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Outlook Express Attachments


> Tools -> Options then security tab. Look for a check box re not opening
> attachments.
>
> Martin
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lembit Soobik" <Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de>
> To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
> <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 10:13 AM
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook Express Attachments
>
>
> > on one of my PCs (win2k)
> > when I receive mail with attachments and I click on that paper-clip to
> open the
> > attachment, the name of the attachment is greyed out and i cnnot open it,
> > however it is there
> > for example when I get a photo as att., the photo shows in the mail body
> window.
> > the same mail, received on a different computer does not have this
> problem.
> > it really started with this behaviour on some mails only and now its on
> all.
> > anybody have any idea where to start searching?
> > thanks
> > Lembit Soobik
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From andy at minstersystems.co.uk  Tue Nov 25 13:58:31 2003
From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:58:31 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
In-Reply-To: <020d01c3b33b$71c9d180$0200a8c0@S856>
Message-ID: <000001c3b38e$805492a0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>

This is a really basic question, but I can't see the answer for the life of
me.

Windows XP Pro and IE6.

If I have a number of users of a workstation who all have their own
Favorites, but there are also a set of common favorites that I want them to
have access to, then I thought if I put the common ones in All
Users\Favorites that everyone would see them, but they don't. They still
only see their own. What am I missing?

Andy Lacey
http://www.minstersystems.co.uk 



From john at winhaven.net  Tue Nov 25 14:18:09 2003
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:18:09 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
In-Reply-To: <000001c3b38e$805492a0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>
Message-ID: <LPBBLAKMHEDAKJKENHKIAEGIENAA.john@winhaven.net>

I hear it coming, but I haven't seen it yet...

(the Mozilla Firebird browser plug)

Fransisco, I'm waiting...
<big grin>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey
> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 1:59 PM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
> 
> 
> This is a really basic question, but I can't see the answer for 
> the life of
> me.
> 
> Windows XP Pro and IE6.
> 
> If I have a number of users of a workstation who all have their own
> Favorites, but there are also a set of common favorites that I 
> want them to
> have access to, then I thought if I put the common ones in All
> Users\Favorites that everyone would see them, but they don't. They still
> only see their own. What am I missing?
> 
> Andy Lacey
> http://www.minstersystems.co.uk 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From my.lists at verizon.net  Tue Nov 25 14:47:09 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:47:09 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLAKMHEDAKJKENHKIAEGIENAA.john@winhaven.net>
References: <LPBBLAKMHEDAKJKENHKIAEGIENAA.john@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <3FC3BFCD.2010208@verizon.net>

I think what you're looking for is the Default User and Favorites.... :D

-- 
-Francisco

PS, yes you can manage common links w/ a default profile in Firebird ;o)


John Bartow wrote:

>I hear it coming, but I haven't seen it yet...
>
>(the Mozilla Firebird browser plug)
>
>Fransisco, I'm waiting...
><big grin>
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 1:59 PM
>>To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
>>Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
>>
>>
>>This is a really basic question, but I can't see the answer for 
>>the life of
>>me.
>>
>>Windows XP Pro and IE6.
>>
>>If I have a number of users of a workstation who all have their own
>>Favorites, but there are also a set of common favorites that I 
>>want them to
>>have access to, then I thought if I put the common ones in All
>>Users\Favorites that everyone would see them, but they don't. They still
>>only see their own. What am I missing?
>>
>>Andy Lacey
>>http://www.minstersystems.co.uk 
>>
>>
>>    
>>


From andy at minstersystems.co.uk  Tue Nov 25 14:49:38 2003
From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:49:38 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
In-Reply-To: <3FC3BFCD.2010208@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <001f01c3b395$a49e90a0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>

No it's not Default User I want. Surely that only kicks in when you create a
new user. I have existing users and I want to provide them with a set of
common favorites. 

Andy Lacey
http://www.minstersystems.co.uk 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of 
> Francisco H Tapia
> Sent: 25 November 2003 20:47
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
> 
> 
> I think what you're looking for is the Default User and 
> Favorites.... :D
> 
> -- 
> -Francisco
> 
> PS, yes you can manage common links w/ a default profile in 
> Firebird ;o)
> 
> 
> John Bartow wrote:
> 
> >I hear it coming, but I haven't seen it yet...
> >
> >(the Mozilla Firebird browser plug)
> >
> >Fransisco, I'm waiting...
> ><big grin>
> >
> >  
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> >>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of 
> Andy Lacey
> >>Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 1:59 PM
> >>To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> >>Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
> >>
> >>
> >>This is a really basic question, but I can't see the answer for
> >>the life of
> >>me.
> >>
> >>Windows XP Pro and IE6.
> >>
> >>If I have a number of users of a workstation who all have their own 
> >>Favorites, but there are also a set of common favorites that I want 
> >>them to have access to, then I thought if I put the common 
> ones in All
> >>Users\Favorites that everyone would see them, but they 
> don't. They still
> >>only see their own. What am I missing?
> >>
> >>Andy Lacey
> >>http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
> >>
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/d> ba-tech
> 
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 



From wdhindman at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov 25 15:57:32 2003
From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:57:32 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
References: <000001c3b38e$805492a0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>
Message-ID: <009101c3b39f$20d4e120$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>

Andy

...make a separate folder under Favorites ...then right click on it and
select Share ...every user on the LAN will see it unless your group policies
prevent it ...HTH :)

William Hindman
Government is not reason, government is not persuasion,
government is force. It is a dangerous servant." G. Washington

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andy Lacey" <andy at minstersystems.co.uk>
To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 2:58 PM
Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP


> This is a really basic question, but I can't see the answer for the life
of
> me.
>
> Windows XP Pro and IE6.
>
> If I have a number of users of a workstation who all have their own
> Favorites, but there are also a set of common favorites that I want them
to
> have access to, then I thought if I put the common ones in All
> Users\Favorites that everyone would see them, but they don't. They still
> only see their own. What am I missing?
>
> Andy Lacey
> http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



From my.lists at verizon.net  Tue Nov 25 16:35:31 2003
From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:35:31 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
In-Reply-To: <001f01c3b395$a49e90a0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>
References: <001f01c3b395$a49e90a0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>
Message-ID: <3FC3D933.5040200@verizon.net>

Did you do a complete power cycle when someone else logs in? 
-- 
-Francisco


Andy Lacey wrote:

>No it's not Default User I want. Surely that only kicks in when you create a
>new user. I have existing users and I want to provide them with a set of
>common favorites. 
>
>Andy Lacey
>http://www.minstersystems.co.uk 
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of 
>>Francisco H Tapia
>>Sent: 25 November 2003 20:47
>>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
>>
>>
>>I think what you're looking for is the Default User and 
>>Favorites.... :D
>>
>>-- 
>>-Francisco
>>
>>PS, yes you can manage common links w/ a default profile in 
>>Firebird ;o)
>>
>>
>>John Bartow wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I hear it coming, but I haven't seen it yet...
>>>
>>>(the Mozilla Firebird browser plug)
>>>
>>>Fransisco, I'm waiting...
>>><big grin>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of 
>>>>        
>>>>
>>Andy Lacey
>>    
>>
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 1:59 PM
>>>>To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
>>>>Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This is a really basic question, but I can't see the answer for
>>>>the life of
>>>>me.
>>>>
>>>>Windows XP Pro and IE6.
>>>>
>>>>If I have a number of users of a workstation who all have their own 
>>>>Favorites, but there are also a set of common favorites that I want 
>>>>them to have access to, then I thought if I put the common 
>>>>        
>>>>
>>ones in All
>>    
>>
>>>>Users\Favorites that everyone would see them, but they 
>>>>        
>>>>
>>don't. They still
>>    
>>
>>>>only see their own. What am I missing?
>>>>
>>>>Andy Lacey
>>>>http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>  
>



From andy at minstersystems.co.uk  Tue Nov 25 16:30:15 2003
From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 22:30:15 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
In-Reply-To: <009101c3b39f$20d4e120$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>
Message-ID: <002f01c3b3a3$b2abf1c0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>

Sorry William, and thanks for responding, but I already tried that. Ok
others can see the folder but it still doesn't appear under Favorites when
you are in IE.

Andy Lacey
http://www.minstersystems.co.uk 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of 
> William Hindman
> Sent: 25 November 2003 21:58
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
> 
> 
> Andy
> 
> ...make a separate folder under Favorites ...then right click 
> on it and select Share ...every user on the LAN will see it 
> unless your group policies prevent it ...HTH :)
> 
> William Hindman
> Government is not reason, government is not persuasion, 
> government is force. It is a dangerous servant." G. Washington
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Andy Lacey" <andy at minstersystems.co.uk>
> To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" 
> <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 2:58 PM
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
> 
> 
> > This is a really basic question, but I can't see the answer for the 
> > life
> of
> > me.
> >
> > Windows XP Pro and IE6.
> >
> > If I have a number of users of a workstation who all have their own 
> > Favorites, but there are also a set of common favorites that I want 
> > them
> to
> > have access to, then I thought if I put the common ones in All 
> > Users\Favorites that everyone would see them, but they don't. They 
> > still only see their own. What am I missing?
> >
> > Andy Lacey
> > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/d> ba-tech
> 
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Nov 25 16:44:49 2003
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:44:49 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
In-Reply-To: <002601c3b2ca$150f2d80$6701a8c0@rock>
References: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449ED3@ALCUXB>
Message-ID: <3FC46801.2098.2E0095@localhost>

On 24 Nov 2003 at 12:32, Arthur Fuller wrote:

> Really way OT even for this list, but I just had to share it. Light has
> been observed (under special conditions) to travel as slowly as 91 m/s
> (meters per second). The phenomenon of slow light was discovered several
> years ago but we don't have real-world applications yet. So the next
> time some smart ass says the speed of light is 186 miles/second you can
> reply, "It depends." :-)
> 

That's always been the case. 

As an example, light travelling through a diamond travels at less 
than half the speed it does in a vacuum. (The Refractive Index of 
diamond is 2.42).




 
-- 
Lexacorp Ltd
http://www.lexacorp.com.pg
Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System 
Support.




From andy at minstersystems.co.uk  Tue Nov 25 16:55:15 2003
From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 22:55:15 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
In-Reply-To: <3FC3D933.5040200@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <000001c3b3a7$316bbb00$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>

Well I've restarted, or do you mean something else?

Andy Lacey
http://www.minstersystems.co.uk 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of 
> Francisco H Tapia
> Sent: 25 November 2003 22:36
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
> 
> 
> Did you do a complete power cycle when someone else logs in? 
> -- 
> -Francisco
> 
> 
> Andy Lacey wrote:
> 
> >No it's not Default User I want. Surely that only kicks in when you 
> >create a new user. I have existing users and I want to provide them 
> >with a set of common favorites.
> >
> >Andy Lacey
> >http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
> >
> >  
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> >>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of 
> >>Francisco H Tapia
> >>Sent: 25 November 2003 20:47
> >>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> >>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
> >>
> >>
> >>I think what you're looking for is the Default User and
> >>Favorites.... :D
> >>
> >>--
> >>-Francisco
> >>
> >>PS, yes you can manage common links w/ a default profile in
> >>Firebird ;o)
> >>
> >>
> >>John Bartow wrote:
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>I hear it coming, but I haven't seen it yet...
> >>>
> >>>(the Mozilla Firebird browser plug)
> >>>
> >>>Fransisco, I'm waiting...
> >>><big grin>
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> >>>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>Andy Lacey
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 1:59 PM
> >>>>To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> >>>>Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>This is a really basic question, but I can't see the 
> answer for the 
> >>>>life of me.
> >>>>
> >>>>Windows XP Pro and IE6.
> >>>>
> >>>>If I have a number of users of a workstation who all have 
> their own
> >>>>Favorites, but there are also a set of common favorites 
> that I want 
> >>>>them to have access to, then I thought if I put the common 
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>ones in All
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>Users\Favorites that everyone would see them, but they
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>don't. They still
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>only see their own. What am I missing?
> >>>>
> >>>>Andy Lacey
> >>>>http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com 
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/d> ba-tech
> 
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 



From wdhindman at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov 25 19:13:00 2003
From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:13:00 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
References: <002f01c3b3a3$b2abf1c0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25>
Message-ID: <002501c3b3ba$6f3e2ae0$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>

...hhhmmm ...works for me ...check your C\:Documents and Settings\AllUsers
directory to see if its there in the template after setting the share.

William Hindman
Government is not reason, government is not persuasion,
government is force. It is a dangerous servant." G. Washington

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andy Lacey" <andy at minstersystems.co.uk>
To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 5:30 PM
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP


> Sorry William, and thanks for responding, but I already tried that. Ok
> others can see the folder but it still doesn't appear under Favorites when
> you are in IE.
>
> Andy Lacey
> http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> > William Hindman
> > Sent: 25 November 2003 21:58
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
> >
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > ...make a separate folder under Favorites ...then right click
> > on it and select Share ...every user on the LAN will see it
> > unless your group policies prevent it ...HTH :)
> >
> > William Hindman
> > Government is not reason, government is not persuasion,
> > government is force. It is a dangerous servant." G. Washington
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Andy Lacey" <andy at minstersystems.co.uk>
> > To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'"
> > <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 2:58 PM
> > Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
> >
> >
> > > This is a really basic question, but I can't see the answer for the
> > > life
> > of
> > > me.
> > >
> > > Windows XP Pro and IE6.
> > >
> > > If I have a number of users of a workstation who all have their own
> > > Favorites, but there are also a set of common favorites that I want
> > > them
> > to
> > > have access to, then I thought if I put the common ones in All
> > > Users\Favorites that everyone would see them, but they don't. They
> > > still only see their own. What am I missing?
> > >
> > > Andy Lacey
> > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/d> ba-tech
> >
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



From DBCfour at aol.com  Tue Nov 25 22:17:38 2003
From: DBCfour at aol.com (DBCfour at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 23:17:38 EST
Subject: [dba-Tech] Sharing Favorites in XP
Message-ID: <ce.40d75052.2cf58362@aol.com>


You could the Special Folders section of TweakUI (available here:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/downloads/powertoys.asp ).

Donna

In a message dated 11/25/2003 3:00:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
andy at minstersystems.co.uk writes:


> This is a really basic question, but I can't see the answer for the life of
> me.
> 
> Windows XP Pro and IE6.
> 
> If I have a number of users of a workstation who all have their own
> Favorites, but there are also a set of common favorites that I want them to
> have access to, then I thought if I put the common ones in All
> Users\Favorites that everyone would see them, but they don't. They still
> only see their own. What am I missing?
> 
> Andy Lacey
> 


From artful at rogers.com  Wed Nov 26 14:37:21 2003
From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:37:21 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPOEDDFNAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <000101c3b45d$17fcaf60$6701a8c0@rock>

Yeah yeah yeah. You know what I meant :-) One keystroke missing and
suddenly you're a DA :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W.
Colby
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 1:11 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Slow Light


>So the next time some smart ass says the speed of light is 186 
>miles/second
you can reply, "It depends." :-)

Uh, that would be 186 THOUSAND miles per second.  Perhaps in some slow
medium....

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 3:32 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light


Really way OT even for this list, but I just had to share it. Light has
been observed (under special conditions) to travel as slowly as 91 m/s
(meters per second). The phenomenon of slow light was discovered several
years ago but we don't have real-world applications yet. So the next
time some smart ass says the speed of light is 186 miles/second you can
reply, "It depends." :-)

http://www.aip.org/tip/INPHFA/vol-9/iss-5/p20.html

Arthur


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From artful at rogers.com  Wed Nov 26 14:39:11 2003
From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:39:11 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Automotive newsgroups
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPOEDDFNAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <000201c3b45d$595421f0$6701a8c0@rock>

Does anyone know of a group similar to AccessD but devoted to subjects
automotive/repair etc.? I've got some problems that I won't bother you
with except to say that they are persnickety.

Arthur



From garykjos at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 26 11:48:48 2003
From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:48:48 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Automotive newsgroups
Message-ID: <BAY2-F72dbRMy6wGbf800012985@hotmail.com>

www.edmunds.com has an area called "town hall" where people can post 
messages and others reply. It is organized by manufacturer and vehicle type.

I've spent some time lurking in the Isuzu Trooper area and have learned a 
thing or two.

Gary Kjos
garykjos at hotmail.com





>From: "Arthur Fuller" <artful at rogers.com>
>Reply-To: Discussion of Hardware and Software 
>issues<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
>To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software 
>issues'"<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
>Subject: [dba-Tech] Automotive newsgroups
>Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:39:11 -0800
>
>Does anyone know of a group similar to AccessD but devoted to subjects
>automotive/repair etc.? I've got some problems that I won't bother you
>with except to say that they are persnickety.
>
>Arthur
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_________________________________________________________________
Say ?goodbye? to busy signals and slow downloads with a high-speed Internet 
connection! Prices start at less than $1 a day average.  
https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)


From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Wed Nov 26 12:11:33 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:11:33 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
In-Reply-To: <000101c3b45d$17fcaf60$6701a8c0@rock>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPEEJNFNAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

>One keystroke missing and suddenly you're a DA :-)

uhhh... that would be 3 or 4 keystrokes missing.  

Make that a double dumb ass.

<grin>

John W. Colby 
www.ColbyConsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 3:37 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Slow Light


Yeah yeah yeah. You know what I meant :-) One keystroke missing and
suddenly you're a DA :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W.
Colby
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 1:11 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Slow Light


>So the next time some smart ass says the speed of light is 186 
>miles/second
you can reply, "It depends." :-)

Uh, that would be 186 THOUSAND miles per second.  Perhaps in some slow
medium....

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 3:32 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light


Really way OT even for this list, but I just had to share it. Light has
been observed (under special conditions) to travel as slowly as 91 m/s
(meters per second). The phenomenon of slow light was discovered several
years ago but we don't have real-world applications yet. So the next
time some smart ass says the speed of light is 186 miles/second you can
reply, "It depends." :-)

http://www.aip.org/tip/INPHFA/vol-9/iss-5/p20.html

Arthur


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From wdhindman at bellsouth.net  Wed Nov 26 12:15:15 2003
From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:15:15 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
References: <000101c3b45d$17fcaf60$6701a8c0@rock>
Message-ID: <002301c3b449$3def2180$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>

...what's with this "suddenly" bit ...far back as I can remember JC's always
been the prosecutor! :)))))

William Hindman
Government is not reason, government is not persuasion,
government is force. It is a dangerous servant." G. Washington

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arthur Fuller" <artful at rogers.com>
To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 3:37 PM
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Slow Light


> Yeah yeah yeah. You know what I meant :-) One keystroke missing and
> suddenly you're a DA :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W.
> Colby
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 1:11 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
>
>
> >So the next time some smart ass says the speed of light is 186
> >miles/second
> you can reply, "It depends." :-)
>
> Uh, that would be 186 THOUSAND miles per second.  Perhaps in some slow
> medium....
>
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 3:32 PM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
>
>
> Really way OT even for this list, but I just had to share it. Light has
> been observed (under special conditions) to travel as slowly as 91 m/s
> (meters per second). The phenomenon of slow light was discovered several
> years ago but we don't have real-world applications yet. So the next
> time some smart ass says the speed of light is 186 miles/second you can
> reply, "It depends." :-)
>
> http://www.aip.org/tip/INPHFA/vol-9/iss-5/p20.html
>
> Arthur
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From wdhindman at bellsouth.net  Wed Nov 26 12:16:36 2003
From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:16:36 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
References: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPEEJNFNAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002801c3b449$6e1db9c0$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>

...one key stroke as in "K" ...now who's on first?

William Hindman
Government is not reason, government is not persuasion,
government is force. It is a dangerous servant." G. Washington

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John W. Colby" <jcolby at colbyconsulting.com>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Slow Light


> >One keystroke missing and suddenly you're a DA :-)
>
> uhhh... that would be 3 or 4 keystrokes missing.
>
> Make that a double dumb ass.
>
> <grin>
>
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 3:37 PM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
>
>
> Yeah yeah yeah. You know what I meant :-) One keystroke missing and
> suddenly you're a DA :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W.
> Colby
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 1:11 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
>
>
> >So the next time some smart ass says the speed of light is 186
> >miles/second
> you can reply, "It depends." :-)
>
> Uh, that would be 186 THOUSAND miles per second.  Perhaps in some slow
> medium....
>
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 3:32 PM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
>
>
> Really way OT even for this list, but I just had to share it. Light has
> been observed (under special conditions) to travel as slowly as 91 m/s
> (meters per second). The phenomenon of slow light was discovered several
> years ago but we don't have real-world applications yet. So the next
> time some smart ass says the speed of light is 186 miles/second you can
> reply, "It depends." :-)
>
> http://www.aip.org/tip/INPHFA/vol-9/iss-5/p20.html
>
> Arthur
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Wed Nov 26 12:27:39 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:27:39 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] IIS different port
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPOEJNFNAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

I am trying to get IIS set up again on my computer.  I had it running once
using an odd TCP Port (54637) instead of the normal 80.  I have IIS running,
and if I just use 80 I get the web site served up, the same data as my real
web site - just so I know it's working.  However if I go in to the
properties for the site and enter 54637 as the tcp port, I can't see the
site, even locally.

Am I correct that if you use anything other than 80 you have to put in the
workstation name or local IP address colon tcp port?  Ie 192.168.1.100:54637
?



John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com



From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Wed Nov 26 12:29:32 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:29:32 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
In-Reply-To: <002801c3b449$6e1db9c0$6001a8c0@dejpolsys>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPKEJOFNAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

rotfl.  

Thanks for helping him out, he needs all the help he can get right now.

John W. Colby 
www.ColbyConsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William
Hindman
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 1:17 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Slow Light


...one key stroke as in "K" ...now who's on first?

William Hindman
Government is not reason, government is not persuasion,
government is force. It is a dangerous servant." G. Washington

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John W. Colby" <jcolby at colbyconsulting.com>
To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Slow Light


> >One keystroke missing and suddenly you're a DA :-)
>
> uhhh... that would be 3 or 4 keystrokes missing.
>
> Make that a double dumb ass.
>
> <grin>
>
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 3:37 PM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
>
>
> Yeah yeah yeah. You know what I meant :-) One keystroke missing and
> suddenly you're a DA :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W.
> Colby
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 1:11 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
>
>
> >So the next time some smart ass says the speed of light is 186
> >miles/second
> you can reply, "It depends." :-)
>
> Uh, that would be 186 THOUSAND miles per second.  Perhaps in some slow
> medium....
>
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 3:32 PM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
>
>
> Really way OT even for this list, but I just had to share it. Light has
> been observed (under special conditions) to travel as slowly as 91 m/s
> (meters per second). The phenomenon of slow light was discovered several
> years ago but we don't have real-world applications yet. So the next
> time some smart ass says the speed of light is 186 miles/second you can
> reply, "It depends." :-)
>
> http://www.aip.org/tip/INPHFA/vol-9/iss-5/p20.html
>
> Arthur
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From JRojas at tnco-inc.com  Wed Nov 26 12:35:46 2003
From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:35:46 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] IIS different port
Message-ID: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E2395FE@mercury.tnco-inc.com>

Yes.
I would type in a fully qualified URL though, e.g.
http://192.168.1.100:54637/


This way your browser will not get confused as to what protocol to use.

JR


-----Original Message-----
From: John W. Colby [mailto:jcolby at colbyconsulting.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 1:28 PM
To: DBA - Tech
Subject: [dba-Tech] IIS different port

I am trying to get IIS set up again on my computer.  I had it running once
using an odd TCP Port (54637) instead of the normal 80.  I have IIS running,
and if I just use 80 I get the web site served up, the same data as my real
web site - just so I know it's working.  However if I go in to the
properties for the site and enter 54637 as the tcp port, I can't see the
site, even locally.

Am I correct that if you use anything other than 80 you have to put in the
workstation name or local IP address colon tcp port?  Ie 192.168.1.100:54637
?



John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



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From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Wed Nov 26 12:44:34 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:44:34 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] IIS different port
In-Reply-To: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E2395FE@mercury.tnco-inc.com>
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPKEKAFNAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

That worked, thanks.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Joe Rojas
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 1:36 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] IIS different port


Yes.
I would type in a fully qualified URL though, e.g.
http://192.168.1.100:54637/


This way your browser will not get confused as to what protocol to use.

JR


-----Original Message-----
From: John W. Colby [mailto:jcolby at colbyconsulting.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 1:28 PM
To: DBA - Tech
Subject: [dba-Tech] IIS different port

I am trying to get IIS set up again on my computer.  I had it running once
using an odd TCP Port (54637) instead of the normal 80.  I have IIS running,
and if I just use 80 I get the web site served up, the same data as my real
web site - just so I know it's working.  However if I go in to the
properties for the site and enter 54637 as the tcp port, I can't see the
site, even locally.

Am I correct that if you use anything other than 80 you have to put in the
workstation name or local IP address colon tcp port?  Ie 192.168.1.100:54637
?



John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


_______________________________________________
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From subs1847 at solution-providers.ie  Wed Nov 26 12:49:07 2003
From: subs1847 at solution-providers.ie (Mark L. Breen)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:49:07 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Automotive newsgroups
References: <000201c3b45d$595421f0$6701a8c0@rock>
Message-ID: <002801c3b44e$5495ad50$026da8c0@D8TZHN0J>

Hello Arthur,

I am a member of some US truck news groups and also the BMW group, my
experience from all of them as been great.  I am constantly amazed at how
responsive newsgroups are.

There are usually ones for the brand of vehicle.

Only today I posted a question about my BMW and got a good reply within
minutes.

I also recently posted a question to the coffee newsgroup about whether to
stir or not when using a plunge pot.  Got about eight detailed replies in 24
hours! Would have been hard to believe in 1995, and that is not a long time
ago.

Best Regards



Mark L. Breen
Ireland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arthur Fuller" <artful at rogers.com>
To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'"
<dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 8:39 PM
Subject: [dba-Tech] Automotive newsgroups


> Does anyone know of a group similar to AccessD but devoted to subjects
> automotive/repair etc.? I've got some problems that I won't bother you
> with except to say that they are persnickety.
>
> Arthur
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Wed Nov 26 15:09:42 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:09:42 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] IIS different port
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF03CF44@stekelbes.ithelps.local>

Yep correct.
Http goes automaticaly to port 80, typing http://192.168.1.100:54637
will go get data from port 54637

You must change or add the port (you can do both).
 Erwin

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W.
Colby
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 7:28 PM
To: DBA - Tech
Subject: [dba-Tech] IIS different port

I am trying to get IIS set up again on my computer.  I had it running
once using an odd TCP Port (54637) instead of the normal 80.  I have IIS
running, and if I just use 80 I get the web site served up, the same
data as my real web site - just so I know it's working.  However if I go
in to the properties for the site and enter 54637 as the tcp port, I
can't see the site, even locally.

Am I correct that if you use anything other than 80 you have to put in
the workstation name or local IP address colon tcp port?  Ie
192.168.1.100:54637 ?



John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


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From Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk  Thu Nov 27 02:58:20 2003
From: Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk (Jon Tydda)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:58:20 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Automotive newsgroups
Message-ID: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EA449F58@ALCUXB>

no, but I've got a vague idea of what goes on under the bonnet, and my
brother is a qualified mechanic... could do a lot worse then to ask :-)


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com]
Sent: 26 November 2003 20:39
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] Automotive newsgroups


Does anyone know of a group similar to AccessD but devoted to subjects
automotive/repair etc.? I've got some problems that I won't bother you
with except to say that they are persnickety.

Arthur


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From jcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Thu Nov 27 03:23:02 2003
From: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:23:02 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Securing IIS
Message-ID: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPMELNFNAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>

Can anyone point me to a good primer on securing IIS, preferably on line?  I
am trying to get an IIS server going on my in-house server to demo web sites
to clients and just don't my system exposed to hackers.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com



From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Thu Nov 27 03:42:41 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:42:41 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Securing IIS
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF03CF4B@stekelbes.ithelps.local>

Microsoft hase a Lockdown tool and URL scan.
Don't have the link but you should find it quit easy on the IIS website
of MS.

Also use the MSBA Security Base Analyzer or something.
This will scan  your system for missing fixes other then windows update.
You should find this pretty easy on technet.

And then you would need some luck too...
It's pretty wild out there :-)

Between 50 and 400 attempts is pretty normal... (in my experiance)

One good advice 
NEVER PUT AN WEBSERVER ONLINE BEFORE IT'S FULLY PATCHED AND SECURED AND
PREFERABLY BEHIND A FIREWALL.
If you do so, your server is hacked, infected or trojaned within 5
minutes.


Erwin


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W.
Colby
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 10:23 AM
To: DBA - Tech
Subject: [dba-Tech] Securing IIS

Can anyone point me to a good primer on securing IIS, preferably on
line?  I am trying to get an IIS server going on my in-house server to
demo web sites to clients and just don't my system exposed to hackers.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


_______________________________________________
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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au  Thu Nov 27 03:54:24 2003
From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:24:24 +1030
Subject: [dba-Tech] Securing IIS
Message-ID: <EAAA1F7DC874D511BA070008C70D61BBE3A5A8@adl01s051.ilcorp.gov.au>

There are some good webcasts about IIS security also. A search at MS will
find them.

If you can get Win2003 - IIS6 is a huge improvement, especially security
wise.

Cheers,
Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: Erwin Craps [mailto:Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be]
Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2003 8:13 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Securing IIS


Microsoft hase a Lockdown tool and URL scan.
Don't have the link but you should find it quit easy on the IIS website
of MS.

Also use the MSBA Security Base Analyzer or something.
This will scan  your system for missing fixes other then windows update.
You should find this pretty easy on technet.

And then you would need some luck too...
It's pretty wild out there :-)

Between 50 and 400 attempts is pretty normal... (in my experiance)

One good advice 
NEVER PUT AN WEBSERVER ONLINE BEFORE IT'S FULLY PATCHED AND SECURED AND
PREFERABLY BEHIND A FIREWALL.
If you do so, your server is hacked, infected or trojaned within 5
minutes.


Erwin


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W.
Colby
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 10:23 AM
To: DBA - Tech
Subject: [dba-Tech] Securing IIS

Can anyone point me to a good primer on securing IIS, preferably on
line?  I am trying to get an IIS server going on my in-house server to
demo web sites to clients and just don't my system exposed to hackers.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
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Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

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From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be  Thu Nov 27 04:01:07 2003
From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 11:01:07 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Securing IIS
Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF03CF4D@stekelbes.ithelps.local>

Between 50 and 400 attempts is pretty normal... (in my experiance)
>>> That's per hour.... 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 10:43 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Securing IIS

Microsoft hase a Lockdown tool and URL scan.
Don't have the link but you should find it quit easy on the IIS website
of MS.

Also use the MSBA Security Base Analyzer or something.
This will scan  your system for missing fixes other then windows update.
You should find this pretty easy on technet.

And then you would need some luck too...
It's pretty wild out there :-)

Between 50 and 400 attempts is pretty normal... (in my experiance)

One good advice
NEVER PUT AN WEBSERVER ONLINE BEFORE IT'S FULLY PATCHED AND SECURED AND
PREFERABLY BEHIND A FIREWALL.
If you do so, your server is hacked, infected or trojaned within 5
minutes.


Erwin


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W.
Colby
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 10:23 AM
To: DBA - Tech
Subject: [dba-Tech] Securing IIS

Can anyone point me to a good primer on securing IIS, preferably on
line?  I am trying to get an IIS server going on my in-house server to
demo web sites to clients and just don't my system exposed to hackers.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
_______________________________________________
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http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From artful at rogers.com  Fri Nov 28 13:29:49 2003
From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:29:49 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light
In-Reply-To: <DCEFJAOENMNENLAAOFGPEEJNFNAA.jcolby@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <000001c3b5e5$fde72cb0$6701a8c0@rock>

Well actually I meant District Attorney, but .... -) 

And the keystroke I referred to is "K".

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W.
Colby
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 10:12 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Slow Light


>One keystroke missing and suddenly you're a DA :-)

uhhh... that would be 3 or 4 keystrokes missing.  

Make that a double dumb ass.

<grin>

John W. Colby 
www.ColbyConsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 3:37 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Slow Light


Yeah yeah yeah. You know what I meant :-) One keystroke missing and
suddenly you're a DA :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W.
Colby
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 1:11 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Slow Light


>So the next time some smart ass says the speed of light is 186
>miles/second
you can reply, "It depends." :-)

Uh, that would be 186 THOUSAND miles per second.  Perhaps in some slow
medium....

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 3:32 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] Slow Light


Really way OT even for this list, but I just had to share it. Light has
been observed (under special conditions) to travel as slowly as 91 m/s
(meters per second). The phenomenon of slow light was discovered several
years ago but we don't have real-world applications yet. So the next
time some smart ass says the speed of light is 186 miles/second you can
reply, "It depends." :-)

http://www.aip.org/tip/INPHFA/vol-9/iss-5/p20.html

Arthur


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From bchacc at san.rr.com  Sun Nov 30 15:14:28 2003
From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:14:28 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] List of Reports
Message-ID: <00f001c3b786$f11742c0$6501a8c0@HAL9002>

Dear Lists(s):

In my manual I have an appendix of reports.  Since the reports are all landscape, the report titles are in text boxes turned vertical.

I've figured out how to use the Index and Tables thingy and it's great for inserting my TOC, list of figures, and list of tables.  The problem I'm having is getting some text onto the page with each report which won't show on the report page (in a unique style, which I can do) which won't show on the page but will be picked up by the table thingy to make a nice TOC for my reports.

I tried the hidden thing, which works except now I can't see the text - don't even know where to find it.  Most of the page is covered by an inserted jpg of a report.

Anyway, rather than wrestling this thing into submission, which I can certainly do (I did two reports, made the table, worked fine, lost some hair), does anybody know of a slick way to do this?  

It would be nice of the table thingy 'saw' the text in the text box.  But I don't think it does.

MTIA

Rocky