From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Aug 1 00:21:11 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 22:21:11 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Remotes References: <200507312005.j6VK53R00453@databaseadvisors.com> <4f4bf951050731200074cec381@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42EDB147.30107@shaw.ca> All people are born right-handed but a few actually succeed and overcome it. Ed Tesiny wrote: >William, >NO, the cars don't work identically....left drive vs. right >drive...totally different.. >all instints are different..you look into the mirror and it's on the >left not the right...you shift with your left hand...you obviously >haven't driven in Europe. Anyway, I'm tired, going to bed...BUT re: >your comments re: Bolder and Madison I think your out of >place...Tourch a snake hole,..hammer some nail...wrestle some >alagator...or throw yourself on a small fire, as a proper wet blanket >would do! >Ed > >On 7/31/05, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > >>Before I launch into this, let me ask this question. Look at your living >>room table and count the number of remotes positioned thereupon. Include >>those that fell between the sofa cushions while you drifted off switching >>between Conan and Craig Ferguson. >> >> >> >>Why is this? >> >> >> >>I can go to Tokyo or London or Albequerque and rent a car and it works >>identically, no matter the brand, no matter the left/right rules. The car >>works identically. Very occasionally I have to grope to figure out how to >>dim the headlights, but most of the time I know exactly where everything is. >> >> >> >>Borrow someone's cell phone for a moment (said cell from a different >>manufacturer than yours). Suddenly you're in the world of "grope". >> >> >> >>TV is IMO the WORST offender. One remote for the TV, another for the DVD, >>another for the VHS. (By now I think BetaMaxes are all in the dustbin.) >>Click one wrong button on one remote and you spend 5 minutes figuring out >>the problem and you just missed the beginning of the most recent Law & >>Order. >> >> >> >>I think I hate software, but I hate hardware an order of magnitude more. Why >>o why cannot these manufacturers go to IEEE and settle on a spec, such that >>one single remote can work everything (including, incidentally, my sound >>system, microwave and so on)? >> >> >> >>I have seen allegedly universal remotes in the local stores, ranging from >>$19 to $99, and they are laughable. The $19 ones assume that you have the >>remote to machine X and that you will point them to each other and thus >>absorb the signals. Sheep manure! I should be able to point the allegedly >>universal remote at any receiving device and inhale its instruction set - >>and if there is a problem then automatically visit the manufacturer's site >>and download said instruction set and map it to the buttons on said >>allegedly universal remote. All of these devices have ops in common - >>loudness for example. Some have unique functions (i.e. dvd and cd can jump >>to next track), and some have functions shared with one or two devices (i.e. >>fast-forward within the selected track). >> >> >> >>Being a dinosaur, I have lots of equipment incapable of such intelligent >>responses (Oracle 3-pin turntable, lots of stuff made by Bose, etc.), but >>the modern stuff I would expect capable of IEEE-like responses to a common >>set of signals. But it seems not to be the case. At the moment I have 3 >>remotes on my coffee table, one for each device (cable tv input, dvd player >>and vhs player). Aside from the physical clutter there is the intellectual >>clutter. Why o why can't I have one device that works everything, including >>setting the microwave to start defrosting the object therein at exactly 5:11 >>pm? >> >> >> >>I don't get it. This seems SO obvious to me, as obvious as renting a car in >>another country and knowing how it operates. I must be missing something >>major here. or perhaps detecting an opportunity, as the marketing folks >>would phrase it. But I have been bitching and whining about this for years, >>and no one has leapt into the gap with a product that can do it. Is this >>because all the vendors keep secrets? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-Tech mailing list >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Aug 1 01:29:02 2005 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 07:29:02 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Remotes In-Reply-To: <42EDB147.30107@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <001d01c59662$4ef975a0$901b0c54@minster33c3r25> This belongs on OT, not here. Please take it there. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > MartyConnelly > Sent: 01 August 2005 06:21 > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Remotes > > > All people are born right-handed but a few actually succeed > and overcome it. > > Ed Tesiny wrote: > > >William, > >NO, the cars don't work identically....left drive vs. right > >drive...totally different.. all instints are different..you > look into > >the mirror and it's on the left not the right...you shift with your > >left hand...you obviously haven't driven in Europe. Anyway, > I'm tired, > >going to bed...BUT re: your comments re: Bolder and Madison I think > >your out of place...Tourch a snake hole,..hammer some nail...wrestle > >some alagator...or throw yourself on a small fire, as a proper wet > >blanket would do! > >Ed > > > >On 7/31/05, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > > > >>Before I launch into this, let me ask this question. Look at your > >>living room table and count the number of remotes positioned > >>thereupon. Include those that fell between the sofa > cushions while you > >>drifted off switching between Conan and Craig Ferguson. > >> > >> > >> > >>Why is this? > >> > >> > >> > >>I can go to Tokyo or London or Albequerque and rent a car > and it works > >>identically, no matter the brand, no matter the left/right > rules. The > >>car works identically. Very occasionally I have to grope to > figure out > >>how to dim the headlights, but most of the time I know > exactly where > >>everything is. > >> > >> > >> > >>Borrow someone's cell phone for a moment (said cell from a > different > >>manufacturer than yours). Suddenly you're in the world of "grope". > >> > >> > >> > >>TV is IMO the WORST offender. One remote for the TV, > another for the > >>DVD, another for the VHS. (By now I think BetaMaxes are all in the > >>dustbin.) Click one wrong button on one remote and you > spend 5 minutes > >>figuring out the problem and you just missed the beginning > of the most > >>recent Law & Order. > >> > >> > >> > >>I think I hate software, but I hate hardware an order of magnitude > >>more. Why o why cannot these manufacturers go to IEEE and > settle on a > >>spec, such that one single remote can work everything (including, > >>incidentally, my sound system, microwave and so on)? > >> > >> > >> > >>I have seen allegedly universal remotes in the local > stores, ranging > >>from $19 to $99, and they are laughable. The $19 ones > assume that you > >>have the remote to machine X and that you will point them to each > >>other and thus absorb the signals. Sheep manure! I should > be able to > >>point the allegedly universal remote at any receiving device and > >>inhale its instruction set - and if there is a problem then > >>automatically visit the manufacturer's site and download said > >>instruction set and map it to the buttons on said allegedly > universal > >>remote. All of these devices have ops in common - loudness for > >>example. Some have unique functions (i.e. dvd and cd can > jump to next > >>track), and some have functions shared with one or two > devices (i.e. > >>fast-forward within the selected track). > >> > >> > >> > >>Being a dinosaur, I have lots of equipment incapable of such > >>intelligent responses (Oracle 3-pin turntable, lots of > stuff made by > >>Bose, etc.), but the modern stuff I would expect capable of > IEEE-like > >>responses to a common set of signals. But it seems not to > be the case. > >>At the moment I have 3 remotes on my coffee table, one for > each device > >>(cable tv input, dvd player and vhs player). Aside from the > physical > >>clutter there is the intellectual clutter. Why o why can't > I have one > >>device that works everything, including setting the > microwave to start > >>defrosting the object therein at exactly 5:11 pm? > >> > >> > >> > >>I don't get it. This seems SO obvious to me, as obvious as > renting a > >>car in another country and knowing how it operates. I must > be missing > >>something major here. or perhaps detecting an opportunity, as the > >>marketing folks would phrase it. But I have been bitching > and whining > >>about this for years, and no one has leapt into the gap > with a product > >>that can do it. Is this because all the vendors keep secrets? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>dba-Tech mailing list > >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Mon Aug 1 08:41:38 2005 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 09:41:38 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files References: <20050729135754.7098024F55B@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <42EE2692.9090902@torchlake.com> Andy, It's too bad the fellow can't ask his source to make a small change. If he could, it would be a fine idea for the source to install pdf995 and simply print their PUB file to a PDF file. He might be doing them a favor by suggesting it. Otherwise, I think you are correct, he's just going to have to buy Publisher. I found out recently that earlier versions of Publisher (not sure how early) are not reading current versions - so your fellow would do well to buy a very current version. Kind regards, Tina Andy Lacey wrote: >That's very kind of you Shamil. > >However this is a guy here who's going to be receiving files on a fairly >regular basis so I couldn't possibly ask you. He says he can't ask the >source to alter their way of doing things so it sounds like he's going to >have to buy Publisher just to read/print the files. > >Again, thanks for your offer of help. > >-- >Andy Lacey >http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > >--------- Original Message -------- >From: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > >To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files >Date: 29/07/05 13:11 > > >OK. >I just thought if they have MS Publisher 2003(?) they should also have MS >Office 2003 - so I supposed they can resend files printed using Microsoft >Office Document Image Writer... > >I have MS Publisher 2003 - if the files are not big I can get them from you, >make .mdi images from them and send them back to you.... > >Shamil > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Andy Lacey" >To: "Dba Tech" >Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 4:53 PM >Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > > > > >>Problem is Shamil that a guy has received PUB files he wants to read/print >>from a source over which he has no influence. He can't request them in >>another form, which I think is what you're suggesting. >> >>-- >>Andy Lacey >>http://www.minstersystems.co.uk >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >>>Shamil Salakhetdinov >>>Sent: 29 July 2005 12:55 >>>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >>>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files >>> >>> >>>Andy, >>> >>>Why not use >>> >>>Microsoft Office Document Image Writer >>> >>>Installed with MS Office 2003? >>> >>>HTH, >>>Shamil >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Andy Lacey" >>>To: "Dba Tech" >>>Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 12:21 PM >>>Subject: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hi all >>>>Anyone know of a tool which will read/print MS Publisher files for >>>>someone who has been sent one but doesn't have MS Pub? >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Andy Lacey >>>>http://www.minstersystems.co.uk >>>> >>>> >>________________________________________________ >>Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-Tech mailing list >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >________________________________________________ >Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Aug 1 10:56:38 2005 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 16:56:38 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files In-Reply-To: <42EE2692.9090902@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <002001c596b1$99e274a0$901b0c54@minster33c3r25> Thanks for the advice Tina. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Tina Norris Fields > Sent: 01 August 2005 14:42 > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > > > Andy, > It's too bad the fellow can't ask his source to make a small > change. If > he could, it would be a fine idea for the source to install > pdf995 and > simply print their PUB file to a PDF file. He might be doing them a > favor by suggesting it. Otherwise, I think you are correct, > he's just > going to have to buy Publisher. I found out recently that earlier > versions of Publisher (not sure how early) are not reading current > versions - so your fellow would do well to buy a very current > version. Kind regards, Tina > > Andy Lacey wrote: > > >That's very kind of you Shamil. > > > >However this is a guy here who's going to be receiving files on a > >fairly regular basis so I couldn't possibly ask you. He says > he can't > >ask the source to alter their way of doing things so it sounds like > >he's going to have to buy Publisher just to read/print the files. > > > >Again, thanks for your offer of help. > > > >-- > >Andy Lacey > >http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > > > >--------- Original Message -------- > >From: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > > > >To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > > > >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > >Date: 29/07/05 13:11 > > > > > >OK. > >I just thought if they have MS Publisher 2003(?) they should > also have > >MS Office 2003 - so I supposed they can resend files printed using > >Microsoft Office Document Image Writer... > > > >I have MS Publisher 2003 - if the files are not big I can > get them from > >you, make .mdi images from them and send them back to you.... > > > >Shamil > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Andy Lacey" > >To: "Dba Tech" > >Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 4:53 PM > >Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > > > > > > > > > >>Problem is Shamil that a guy has received PUB files he wants to > >>read/print from a source over which he has no influence. He can't > >>request them in another form, which I think is what you're > suggesting. > >> > >>-- > >>Andy Lacey > >>http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > >> > >> > >> > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > >>>Salakhetdinov > >>>Sent: 29 July 2005 12:55 > >>>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > >>>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > >>> > >>> > >>>Andy, > >>> > >>>Why not use > >>> > >>>Microsoft Office Document Image Writer > >>> > >>>Installed with MS Office 2003? > >>> > >>>HTH, > >>>Shamil > >>> > >>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>From: "Andy Lacey" > >>>To: "Dba Tech" > >>>Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 12:21 PM > >>>Subject: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Hi all > >>>>Anyone know of a tool which will read/print MS Publisher > files for > >>>>someone who has been sent one but doesn't have MS Pub? > >>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>Andy Lacey > >>>>http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > >>>> > >>>> > >>________________________________________________ > >>Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>dba-Tech mailing list > >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >________________________________________________ > >Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > > >_______________________________________________ > >dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From shamil at users.mns.ru Mon Aug 1 12:13:26 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 21:13:26 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files References: <002001c596b1$99e274a0$901b0c54@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <000c01c596bc$556752e0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Andy, I have MS Office Publisher 2003 - i.e. it's installed from MS Office 2003 Professional MSDN disk as far as I can remember. I mean if your colleague has and uses MS Office but if he don't have MS Office 2003 Prof. then maybe it's better/cheaper to purchase/upgrade to MS Office 2003 Professional to get MS Publisher 2003 together with a lot of other useful MS Office 203 software... HTH, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 7:56 PM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > Thanks for the advice Tina. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Tina Norris Fields > > Sent: 01 August 2005 14:42 > > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > > > > > > Andy, > > It's too bad the fellow can't ask his source to make a small > > change. If > > he could, it would be a fine idea for the source to install > > pdf995 and > > simply print their PUB file to a PDF file. He might be doing them a > > favor by suggesting it. Otherwise, I think you are correct, > > he's just > > going to have to buy Publisher. I found out recently that earlier > > versions of Publisher (not sure how early) are not reading current > > versions - so your fellow would do well to buy a very current > > version. Kind regards, Tina > > > > Andy Lacey wrote: > > > > >That's very kind of you Shamil. > > > > > >However this is a guy here who's going to be receiving files on a > > >fairly regular basis so I couldn't possibly ask you. He says > > he can't > > >ask the source to alter their way of doing things so it sounds like > > >he's going to have to buy Publisher just to read/print the files. > > > > > >Again, thanks for your offer of help. > > > > > >-- > > >Andy Lacey > > >http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--------- Original Message -------- > > >From: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > > > > > >To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > > > > > >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > > >Date: 29/07/05 13:11 > > > > > > > > >OK. > > >I just thought if they have MS Publisher 2003(?) they should > > also have > > >MS Office 2003 - so I supposed they can resend files printed using > > >Microsoft Office Document Image Writer... > > > > > >I have MS Publisher 2003 - if the files are not big I can > > get them from > > >you, make .mdi images from them and send them back to you.... > > > > > >Shamil > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Andy Lacey" > > >To: "Dba Tech" > > >Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 4:53 PM > > >Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Problem is Shamil that a guy has received PUB files he wants to > > >>read/print from a source over which he has no influence. He can't > > >>request them in another form, which I think is what you're > > suggesting. > > >> > > >>-- > > >>Andy Lacey > > >>http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>-----Original Message----- > > >>>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > >>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > > >>>Salakhetdinov > > >>>Sent: 29 July 2005 12:55 > > >>>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > > >>>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>Andy, > > >>> > > >>>Why not use > > >>> > > >>>Microsoft Office Document Image Writer > > >>> > > >>>Installed with MS Office 2003? > > >>> > > >>>HTH, > > >>>Shamil > > >>> > > >>>----- Original Message ----- > > >>>From: "Andy Lacey" > > >>>To: "Dba Tech" > > >>>Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 12:21 PM > > >>>Subject: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>Hi all > > >>>>Anyone know of a tool which will read/print MS Publisher > > files for > > >>>>someone who has been sent one but doesn't have MS Pub? > > >>>> > > >>>>-- > > >>>>Andy Lacey > > >>>>http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>________________________________________________ > > >>Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > >> > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >>dba-Tech mailing list > > >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >dba-Tech mailing list > > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > >________________________________________________ > > >Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >dba-Tech mailing list > > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-Tech mailing list > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Aug 1 13:48:00 2005 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 19:48:00 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files In-Reply-To: <000c01c596bc$556752e0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <002601c596c9$8aa24390$901b0c54@minster33c3r25> Good point Shamil, thanks -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Shamil Salakhetdinov > Sent: 01 August 2005 18:13 > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > > > Andy, > > I have MS Office Publisher 2003 - i.e. it's installed from MS > Office 2003 Professional MSDN disk as far as I can remember. > I mean if your colleague has and uses MS Office but if he > don't have MS Office 2003 Prof. then maybe it's > better/cheaper to purchase/upgrade to MS Office 2003 > Professional to get MS Publisher 2003 together with a lot of > other useful MS Office 203 software... > > HTH, > Shamil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Lacey" > To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" > > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 7:56 PM > Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > > > > Thanks for the advice Tina. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina > > > Norris Fields > > > Sent: 01 August 2005 14:42 > > > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > > > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > > > > > > > > > Andy, > > > It's too bad the fellow can't ask his source to make a > small change. > > > If he could, it would be a fine idea for the source to install > > > pdf995 and > > > simply print their PUB file to a PDF file. He might be > doing them a > > > favor by suggesting it. Otherwise, I think you are correct, > > > he's just > > > going to have to buy Publisher. I found out recently that earlier > > > versions of Publisher (not sure how early) are not reading current > > > versions - so your fellow would do well to buy a very current > > > version. Kind regards, Tina > > > > > > Andy Lacey wrote: > > > > > > >That's very kind of you Shamil. > > > > > > > >However this is a guy here who's going to be receiving > files on a > > > >fairly regular basis so I couldn't possibly ask you. He says > > > he can't > > > >ask the source to alter their way of doing things so it > sounds like > > > >he's going to have to buy Publisher just to read/print the files. > > > > > > > >Again, thanks for your offer of help. > > > > > > > >-- > > > >Andy Lacey > > > >http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--------- Original Message -------- > > > >From: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > > > > > > > >To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > > > >Date: 29/07/05 13:11 > > > > > > > > > > > >OK. > > > >I just thought if they have MS Publisher 2003(?) they should > > > also have > > > >MS Office 2003 - so I supposed they can resend files > printed using > > > >Microsoft Office Document Image Writer... > > > > > > > >I have MS Publisher 2003 - if the files are not big I can > > > get them from > > > >you, make .mdi images from them and send them back to you.... > > > > > > > >Shamil > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Andy Lacey" > > > >To: "Dba Tech" > > > >Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 4:53 PM > > > >Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Problem is Shamil that a guy has received PUB files he wants to > > > >>read/print from a source over which he has no > influence. He can't > > > >>request them in another form, which I think is what you're > > > suggesting. > > > >> > > > >>-- > > > >>Andy Lacey > > > >>http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>-----Original Message----- > > > >>>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > >>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > >>>Shamil Salakhetdinov > > > >>>Sent: 29 July 2005 12:55 > > > >>>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > > > >>>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>Andy, > > > >>> > > > >>>Why not use > > > >>> > > > >>>Microsoft Office Document Image Writer > > > >>> > > > >>>Installed with MS Office 2003? > > > >>> > > > >>>HTH, > > > >>>Shamil > > > >>> > > > >>>----- Original Message ----- > > > >>>From: "Andy Lacey" > > > >>>To: "Dba Tech" > > > >>>Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 12:21 PM > > > >>>Subject: [dba-Tech] Reading Publisher files > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>>Hi all > > > >>>>Anyone know of a tool which will read/print MS Publisher > > > files for > > > >>>>someone who has been sent one but doesn't have MS Pub? > > > >>>> > > > >>>>-- > > > >>>>Andy Lacey > > > >>>>http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>________________________________________________ > > > >>Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > > >> > > > >>_______________________________________________ > > > >>dba-Tech mailing list > > > >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >dba-Tech mailing list > > > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > >________________________________________________ > > > >Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >dba-Tech mailing list > > > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-Tech mailing list > > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-Tech mailing list > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 1 15:54:53 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 16:54:53 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Remotes In-Reply-To: <4f4bf951050731200074cec381@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200508012054.j71KstR02858@databaseadvisors.com> Apparently I offended you in some way. Not quite sure how, but I will consider flinging myself upon a fire forthwith. It's rather hot here in August so my fireplace is relaxing, but the moment it gets cold I will oblige. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ed Tesiny Sent: July 31, 2005 11:00 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Remotes William, NO, the cars don't work identically....left drive vs. right drive...totally different.. all instints are different..you look into the mirror and it's on the left not the right...you shift with your left hand...you obviously haven't driven in Europe. Anyway, I'm tired, going to bed...BUT re: your comments re: Bolder and Madison I think your out of place...Tourch a snake hole,..hammer some nail...wrestle some alagator...or throw yourself on a small fire, as a proper wet blanket would do! Ed From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 1 16:06:23 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 17:06:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Remotes In-Reply-To: <42ED92DB.6040006@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200508012106.j71L6PR05677@databaseadvisors.com> As the marketing types always like to say, every problem is an opportunity. So why can't someone build a universal remote that can communicate with the net and download the instruction sets to all machines available within your household? It's obviously not going to pick up my 1969-era Bose amplifier or the turntable, but it should be able to find the TV, VCR, DVD and the two microwaves. Why not? The microwave might be a little more difficult. But the DVD and VCR and TV ought to be brain-dead simple. On the TV, next = next channel. On the DVD, next = next track. On the VCR it's a little more complicated, admittedly, but there remains the valid concept that any movie is comprised of scenes with scene separators. On a DVD it's almost instant; on a VCR it would take a while, but what has that do with the interface? I imagine a world in which one single remote operates my TV, DVD, VCR, microwave oven and so on. Do you have some ethical/fiscal problem with this? All I want is SIMPLER! I have four computers in this room, one running Linux, one running w2k, one running winServer2003 and one running xpPro. They all seem to be able to communicate, within reason (Linux does the print server stuff and everybody can see the printers, and also the file-shares -- I still don't have the ftp server working right but I am working on it). In addition, I use Kaboodle, which is a way cool program. So I can do all this with winX + Linux etc. but still I have 3 damn remotes on my coffee table and I hate it! If this is your definition of the free market, I want to go beyond it. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley Sent: July 31, 2005 11:11 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Remotes />Look at your living room table and count the number of remotes >positioned thereupon. Include those that fell between the sofa cushions >while you drifted off switching between Conan and Craig Ferguson. >Why is this? / Might it be a bit of the 'free' market that's actually free? P. ----- Arthur Fuller wrote: >Before I launch into this, let me ask this question. Look at your living >room table and count the number of remotes positioned thereupon. Include >those that fell between the sofa cushions while you drifted off switching >between Conan and Craig Ferguson. > > > >Why is this? > > > >I can go to Tokyo or London or Albequerque and rent a car and it works >identically, no matter the brand, no matter the left/right rules. The car >works identically. Very occasionally I have to grope to figure out how to >dim the headlights, but most of the time I know exactly where everything is. > > > >Borrow someone's cell phone for a moment (said cell from a different >manufacturer than yours). Suddenly you're in the world of "grope". > > > >TV is IMO the WORST offender. One remote for the TV, another for the DVD, >another for the VHS. (By now I think BetaMaxes are all in the dustbin.) >Click one wrong button on one remote and you spend 5 minutes figuring out >the problem and you just missed the beginning of the most recent Law & >Order. > > > >I think I hate software, but I hate hardware an order of magnitude more. Why >o why cannot these manufacturers go to IEEE and settle on a spec, such that >one single remote can work everything (including, incidentally, my sound >system, microwave and so on)? > > > >I have seen allegedly universal remotes in the local stores, ranging from >$19 to $99, and they are laughable. The $19 ones assume that you have the >remote to machine X and that you will point them to each other and thus >absorb the signals. Sheep manure! I should be able to point the allegedly >universal remote at any receiving device and inhale its instruction set - >and if there is a problem then automatically visit the manufacturer's site >and download said instruction set and map it to the buttons on said >allegedly universal remote. All of these devices have ops in common - >loudness for example. Some have unique functions (i.e. dvd and cd can jump >to next track), and some have functions shared with one or two devices (i.e. >fast-forward within the selected track). > > > >Being a dinosaur, I have lots of equipment incapable of such intelligent >responses (Oracle 3-pin turntable, lots of stuff made by Bose, etc.), but >the modern stuff I would expect capable of IEEE-like responses to a common >set of signals. But it seems not to be the case. At the moment I have 3 >remotes on my coffee table, one for each device (cable tv input, dvd player >and vhs player). Aside from the physical clutter there is the intellectual >clutter. Why o why can't I have one device that works everything, including >setting the microwave to start defrosting the object therein at exactly 5:11 >pm? > > > >I don't get it. This seems SO obvious to me, as obvious as renting a car in >another country and knowing how it operates. I must be missing something >major here. or perhaps detecting an opportunity, as the marketing folks >would phrase it. But I have been bitching and whining about this for years, >and no one has leapt into the gap with a product that can do it. Is this >because all the vendors keep secrets? > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > From fhtapia at gmail.com Mon Aug 1 16:22:18 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 14:22:18 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Remotes In-Reply-To: <200508012054.j71KstR02858@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4f4bf951050731200074cec381@mail.gmail.com> <200508012054.j71KstR02858@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Arthur, I use a Sony RM-2500 it works beautifly. of course I do have a lot of Sony products, ie Tvs, DVD, sound system etc, but I also do also have some other namebrand equpiment namely I have a "haupauge MediaMVP". I would hate to lose the remote for this device as it would make it impossible to use it any futher, but I was able to successfully w/ little effort save the configuration to the sony remote and it worked nicely. I do dig my remote and on my coffee table I only use this remote, plus because my Tvs are all sony I just walk into any room and carry my remote w/ me, I keep all my exisiting remotes w/o batteries and stored in a bin in the closet. I never touch them they are all in their original packaging. I may end up having to use one of the in a pinch should I mis-place my all-in-one remote but i've yet to do that it's a good size :) my 2 cents. On 8/1/05, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > Apparently I offended you in some way. Not quite sure how, but I will > consider flinging myself upon a fire forthwith. It's rather hot here in > August so my fireplace is relaxing, but the moment it gets cold I will > oblige. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ed Tesiny > Sent: July 31, 2005 11:00 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Remotes > > William, > NO, the cars don't work identically....left drive vs. right > drive...totally different.. > all instints are different..you look into the mirror and it's on the > left not the right...you shift with your left hand...you obviously > haven't driven in Europe. Anyway, I'm tired, going to bed...BUT re: > your comments re: Bolder and Madison I think your out of > place...Tourch a snake hole,..hammer some nail...wrestle some > alagator...or throw yourself on a small fire, as a proper wet blanket > would do! > Ed > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Mon Aug 1 16:31:29 2005 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 16:31:29 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Remotes In-Reply-To: <200508012106.j71L6PR05677@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200508012106.j71L6PR05677@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <42EE94B1.3050807@earthlink.net> Thus spake Arthur ... />All I want is SIMPLER! I have four computers in this room, one running >Linux, one running w2k, one running winServer2003 and one running xpPro. >They all seem to be able to communicate, within reason (Linux does the print >server stuff and everybody can see the printers, and also the file-shares -- >I still don't have the ftp server working right but I am working on it). In >addition, I use Kaboodle, which is a way cool program. So I can do all this >with winX + Linux etc. but still I have 3 damn remotes on my coffee table >and I hate it! If this is your definition of the free market, I want to go >beyond it./ It's not a 'definition' of the free market, it's a consequence of decentralisation in those market niches. Not surprisingly, computers have a bit more intelligence than entertainment hardware, so getting them to communicate with one another may be a bit easier than getting DVD players to communicate with the 'net. If Bill Gates has his way, that will change, and he'll be in charge of it. At which point the variety you despise will go away, but we'll have another oligopoly. P. ----- Arthur Fuller wrote: >As the marketing types always like to say, every problem is an opportunity. >So why can't someone build a universal remote that can communicate with the >net and download the instruction sets to all machines available within your >household? It's obviously not going to pick up my 1969-era Bose amplifier or >the turntable, but it should be able to find the TV, VCR, DVD and the two >microwaves. Why not? > >The microwave might be a little more difficult. But the DVD and VCR and TV >ought to be brain-dead simple. On the TV, next = next channel. On the DVD, >next = next track. On the VCR it's a little more complicated, admittedly, >but there remains the valid concept that any movie is comprised of scenes >with scene separators. On a DVD it's almost instant; on a VCR it would take >a while, but what has that do with the interface? > >I imagine a world in which one single remote operates my TV, DVD, VCR, >microwave oven and so on. Do you have some ethical/fiscal problem with this? >All I want is SIMPLER! I have four computers in this room, one running >Linux, one running w2k, one running winServer2003 and one running xpPro. >They all seem to be able to communicate, within reason (Linux does the print >server stuff and everybody can see the printers, and also the file-shares -- >I still don't have the ftp server working right but I am working on it). In >addition, I use Kaboodle, which is a way cool program. So I can do all this >with winX + Linux etc. but still I have 3 damn remotes on my coffee table >and I hate it! If this is your definition of the free market, I want to go >beyond it. > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley >Sent: July 31, 2005 11:11 PM >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Remotes > >/>Look at your living room table and count the number of remotes > >positioned thereupon. Include those that fell between the sofa cushions > >while you drifted off switching between Conan and Craig Ferguson. > > >Why is this? >/ >Might it be a bit of the 'free' market that's actually free? > >P. > >----- > >Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > >>Before I launch into this, let me ask this question. Look at your living >>room table and count the number of remotes positioned thereupon. Include >>those that fell between the sofa cushions while you drifted off switching >>between Conan and Craig Ferguson. >> >> >> >>Why is this? >> >> >> >>I can go to Tokyo or London or Albequerque and rent a car and it works >>identically, no matter the brand, no matter the left/right rules. The car >>works identically. Very occasionally I have to grope to figure out how to >>dim the headlights, but most of the time I know exactly where everything >> >> >is. > > >> >>Borrow someone's cell phone for a moment (said cell from a different >>manufacturer than yours). Suddenly you're in the world of "grope". >> >> >> >>TV is IMO the WORST offender. One remote for the TV, another for the DVD, >>another for the VHS. (By now I think BetaMaxes are all in the dustbin.) >>Click one wrong button on one remote and you spend 5 minutes figuring out >>the problem and you just missed the beginning of the most recent Law & >>Order. >> >> >> >>I think I hate software, but I hate hardware an order of magnitude more. >> >> >Why > > >>o why cannot these manufacturers go to IEEE and settle on a spec, such that >>one single remote can work everything (including, incidentally, my sound >>system, microwave and so on)? >> >> >> >>I have seen allegedly universal remotes in the local stores, ranging from >>$19 to $99, and they are laughable. The $19 ones assume that you have the >>remote to machine X and that you will point them to each other and thus >>absorb the signals. Sheep manure! I should be able to point the allegedly >>universal remote at any receiving device and inhale its instruction set - >>and if there is a problem then automatically visit the manufacturer's site >>and download said instruction set and map it to the buttons on said >>allegedly universal remote. All of these devices have ops in common - >>loudness for example. Some have unique functions (i.e. dvd and cd can jump >>to next track), and some have functions shared with one or two devices >> >> >(i.e. > > >>fast-forward within the selected track). >> >> >> >>Being a dinosaur, I have lots of equipment incapable of such intelligent >>responses (Oracle 3-pin turntable, lots of stuff made by Bose, etc.), but >>the modern stuff I would expect capable of IEEE-like responses to a common >>set of signals. But it seems not to be the case. At the moment I have 3 >>remotes on my coffee table, one for each device (cable tv input, dvd player >>and vhs player). Aside from the physical clutter there is the intellectual >>clutter. Why o why can't I have one device that works everything, including >>setting the microwave to start defrosting the object therein at exactly >> >> >5:11 > > >>pm? >> >> >> >>I don't get it. This seems SO obvious to me, as obvious as renting a car in >>another country and knowing how it operates. I must be missing something >>major here. or perhaps detecting an opportunity, as the marketing folks >>would phrase it. But I have been bitching and whining about this for years, >>and no one has leapt into the gap with a product that can do it. Is this >>because all the vendors keep secrets? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-Tech mailing list >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.7/60 - Release Date: 7/28/2005 From bgeldart at verizon.net Mon Aug 1 16:31:40 2005 From: bgeldart at verizon.net (Bob Geldart) Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 17:31:40 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Remotes In-Reply-To: <200508012106.j71L6PR05677@databaseadvisors.com> References: <42ED92DB.6040006@earthlink.net> <200508012106.j71L6PR05677@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050801172514.033c2a10@incoming.verizon.net> Arthur, Actually, I think I recently saw (but only scanned) an article related to this. Saying the next generation internet revolution would be in linking appliances and items. For instance, all clocks would be synchronized. Pill vials would send a renewal request to the pharmacy (with copy to medic) when low. Etc, Etc. TVs will learn your interests and alert you of programs. Of course this would likely be RFI and WiFi, trather than needing to rewire your house. Will look to see if I can find it. Bob At 8/1/2005 05:06 PM, you wrote: >As the marketing types always like to say, every problem is an opportunity. >So why can't someone build a universal remote that can communicate with the >net and download the instruction sets to all machines available within your >household? It's obviously not going to pick up my 1969-era Bose amplifier or >the turntable, but it should be able to find the TV, VCR, DVD and the two >microwaves. Why not? > >The microwave might be a little more difficult. But the DVD and VCR and TV >ought to be brain-dead simple. On the TV, next = next channel. On the DVD, >next = next track. On the VCR it's a little more complicated, admittedly, >but there remains the valid concept that any movie is comprised of scenes >with scene separators. On a DVD it's almost instant; on a VCR it would take >a while, but what has that do with the interface? > >I imagine a world in which one single remote operates my TV, DVD, VCR, >microwave oven and so on. Do you have some ethical/fiscal problem with this? >All I want is SIMPLER! I have four computers in this room, one running >Linux, one running w2k, one running winServer2003 and one running xpPro. >They all seem to be able to communicate, within reason (Linux does the print >server stuff and everybody can see the printers, and also the file-shares -- >I still don't have the ftp server working right but I am working on it). In >addition, I use Kaboodle, which is a way cool program. So I can do all this >with winX + Linux etc. but still I have 3 damn remotes on my coffee table >and I hate it! If this is your definition of the free market, I want to go >beyond it. > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley >Sent: July 31, 2005 11:11 PM >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Remotes > >/>Look at your living room table and count the number of remotes > >positioned thereupon. Include those that fell between the sofa cushions > >while you drifted off switching between Conan and Craig Ferguson. > > >Why is this? >/ >Might it be a bit of the 'free' market that's actually free? > >P. > >----- > >Arthur Fuller wrote: > > >Before I launch into this, let me ask this question. Look at your living > >room table and count the number of remotes positioned thereupon. Include > >those that fell between the sofa cushions while you drifted off switching > >between Conan and Craig Ferguson. > > > > > > > >Why is this? > > > > > > > >I can go to Tokyo or London or Albequerque and rent a car and it works > >identically, no matter the brand, no matter the left/right rules. The car > >works identically. Very occasionally I have to grope to figure out how to > >dim the headlights, but most of the time I know exactly where everything >is. > > > > > > > >Borrow someone's cell phone for a moment (said cell from a different > >manufacturer than yours). Suddenly you're in the world of "grope". > > > > > > > >TV is IMO the WORST offender. One remote for the TV, another for the DVD, > >another for the VHS. (By now I think BetaMaxes are all in the dustbin.) > >Click one wrong button on one remote and you spend 5 minutes figuring out > >the problem and you just missed the beginning of the most recent Law & > >Order. > > > > > > > >I think I hate software, but I hate hardware an order of magnitude more. >Why > >o why cannot these manufacturers go to IEEE and settle on a spec, such that > >one single remote can work everything (including, incidentally, my sound > >system, microwave and so on)? > > > > > > > >I have seen allegedly universal remotes in the local stores, ranging from > >$19 to $99, and they are laughable. The $19 ones assume that you have the > >remote to machine X and that you will point them to each other and thus > >absorb the signals. Sheep manure! I should be able to point the allegedly > >universal remote at any receiving device and inhale its instruction set - > >and if there is a problem then automatically visit the manufacturer's site > >and download said instruction set and map it to the buttons on said > >allegedly universal remote. All of these devices have ops in common - > >loudness for example. Some have unique functions (i.e. dvd and cd can jump > >to next track), and some have functions shared with one or two devices >(i.e. > >fast-forward within the selected track). > > > > > > > >Being a dinosaur, I have lots of equipment incapable of such intelligent > >responses (Oracle 3-pin turntable, lots of stuff made by Bose, etc.), but > >the modern stuff I would expect capable of IEEE-like responses to a common > >set of signals. But it seems not to be the case. At the moment I have 3 > >remotes on my coffee table, one for each device (cable tv input, dvd player > >and vhs player). Aside from the physical clutter there is the intellectual > >clutter. Why o why can't I have one device that works everything, including > >setting the microwave to start defrosting the object therein at exactly >5:11 > >pm? > > > > > > > >I don't get it. This seems SO obvious to me, as obvious as renting a car in > >another country and knowing how it operates. I must be missing something > >major here. or perhaps detecting an opportunity, as the marketing folks > >would phrase it. But I have been bitching and whining about this for years, > >and no one has leapt into the gap with a product that can do it. Is this > >because all the vendors keep secrets? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Bob Geldart BGeldart at verizon.net Maynard, MA From bgeldart at verizon.net Tue Aug 2 13:42:56 2005 From: bgeldart at verizon.net (Bob Geldart) Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 14:42:56 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Remotes In-Reply-To: <200508012106.j71L6PR05677@databaseadvisors.com> References: <42ED92DB.6040006@earthlink.net> <200508012106.j71L6PR05677@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050802144128.01f4ef38@incoming.verizon.net> Arthur, I found that article, in last Sunday's Boston Globe, a series of short takes on new ideas being explored in the Boston area. Here's a link: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2005/07/31/the_internet_of_things/ Bob At 8/1/2005 05:06 PM, you wrote: >As the marketing types always like to say, every problem is an opportunity. >So why can't someone build a universal remote that can communicate with the >net and download the instruction sets to all machines available within your >household? It's obviously not going to pick up my 1969-era Bose amplifier or >the turntable, but it should be able to find the TV, VCR, DVD and the two >microwaves. Why not? > >The microwave might be a little more difficult. But the DVD and VCR and TV >ought to be brain-dead simple. On the TV, next = next channel. On the DVD, >next = next track. On the VCR it's a little more complicated, admittedly, >but there remains the valid concept that any movie is comprised of scenes >with scene separators. On a DVD it's almost instant; on a VCR it would take >a while, but what has that do with the interface? > >I imagine a world in which one single remote operates my TV, DVD, VCR, >microwave oven and so on. Do you have some ethical/fiscal problem with this? >All I want is SIMPLER! I have four computers in this room, one running >Linux, one running w2k, one running winServer2003 and one running xpPro. >They all seem to be able to communicate, within reason (Linux does the print >server stuff and everybody can see the printers, and also the file-shares -- >I still don't have the ftp server working right but I am working on it). In >addition, I use Kaboodle, which is a way cool program. So I can do all this >with winX + Linux etc. but still I have 3 damn remotes on my coffee table >and I hate it! If this is your definition of the free market, I want to go >beyond it. > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley >Sent: July 31, 2005 11:11 PM >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Remotes > >/>Look at your living room table and count the number of remotes > >positioned thereupon. Include those that fell between the sofa cushions > >while you drifted off switching between Conan and Craig Ferguson. > > >Why is this? >/ >Might it be a bit of the 'free' market that's actually free? > >P. > >----- > >Arthur Fuller wrote: > > >Before I launch into this, let me ask this question. Look at your living > >room table and count the number of remotes positioned thereupon. Include > >those that fell between the sofa cushions while you drifted off switching > >between Conan and Craig Ferguson. > > > > > > > >Why is this? > > > > > > > >I can go to Tokyo or London or Albequerque and rent a car and it works > >identically, no matter the brand, no matter the left/right rules. The car > >works identically. Very occasionally I have to grope to figure out how to > >dim the headlights, but most of the time I know exactly where everything >is. > > > > > > > >Borrow someone's cell phone for a moment (said cell from a different > >manufacturer than yours). Suddenly you're in the world of "grope". > > > > > > > >TV is IMO the WORST offender. One remote for the TV, another for the DVD, > >another for the VHS. (By now I think BetaMaxes are all in the dustbin.) > >Click one wrong button on one remote and you spend 5 minutes figuring out > >the problem and you just missed the beginning of the most recent Law & > >Order. > > > > > > > >I think I hate software, but I hate hardware an order of magnitude more. >Why > >o why cannot these manufacturers go to IEEE and settle on a spec, such that > >one single remote can work everything (including, incidentally, my sound > >system, microwave and so on)? > > > > > > > >I have seen allegedly universal remotes in the local stores, ranging from > >$19 to $99, and they are laughable. The $19 ones assume that you have the > >remote to machine X and that you will point them to each other and thus > >absorb the signals. Sheep manure! I should be able to point the allegedly > >universal remote at any receiving device and inhale its instruction set - > >and if there is a problem then automatically visit the manufacturer's site > >and download said instruction set and map it to the buttons on said > >allegedly universal remote. All of these devices have ops in common - > >loudness for example. Some have unique functions (i.e. dvd and cd can jump > >to next track), and some have functions shared with one or two devices >(i.e. > >fast-forward within the selected track). > > > > > > > >Being a dinosaur, I have lots of equipment incapable of such intelligent > >responses (Oracle 3-pin turntable, lots of stuff made by Bose, etc.), but > >the modern stuff I would expect capable of IEEE-like responses to a common > >set of signals. But it seems not to be the case. At the moment I have 3 > >remotes on my coffee table, one for each device (cable tv input, dvd player > >and vhs player). Aside from the physical clutter there is the intellectual > >clutter. Why o why can't I have one device that works everything, including > >setting the microwave to start defrosting the object therein at exactly >5:11 > >pm? > > > > > > > >I don't get it. This seems SO obvious to me, as obvious as renting a car in > >another country and knowing how it operates. I must be missing something > >major here. or perhaps detecting an opportunity, as the marketing folks > >would phrase it. But I have been bitching and whining about this for years, > >and no one has leapt into the gap with a product that can do it. Is this > >because all the vendors keep secrets? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Bob Geldart BGeldart at verizon.net Maynard, MA From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 2 18:54:05 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 19:54:05 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Serv-U Message-ID: <000401c597bd$7a9e6060$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> I am trying to get Serv-U FTP server going on my server here in my office. The install was simple and just worked. It works just fine inside of my network, using ftp://192.168.122.106 (the server IP address) but I cannot see it going out to the internet and coming back in. I have a dlink 624 (I think) router, in which I have forwarded ports 20 and 21 to 192.168.122.106. I just cannot see the server, from my laptop, going out and back in. One of my tech assists suggested that my ISP might be blocking port 20/21, so I set up the server to look for the ftp at 59999 and then used :59999 at the end to try and force contact at that port. That does not work either. Can anyone suggest how to test this thing, coming in from the outside? If anyone out there knows this stuff, and in particular has experience with Serv-U, can you assist me in getting this working. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 2 19:44:45 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 20:44:45 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] RE: [AccessD] Serv-U In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c597c4$8e670eb0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> All of the machines in my network have Sygate personal firewall installed on them, but I have unloaded (closed) that on both the server and my laptop which I am using to test the FTP server. From my laptop, inside of my network, I can use IE to go to the server ftp address, see the ftp directories etc. I am asked for the username and password by the FTP server, and once I enter them I can see the directories. I can send files from my laptop to the directories for that username. I can move files into those directories directly on the server machine, and I can then see them using IE Explorer and FTPing into that machine (locally). As for "going out and back in, I use No-IP to discover my IP address assigned by the cable company. I then enter that at IE address bar: ftp://68.198.141.18 Doing that, IE "hangs for a long time", then comes back and says it can't find the address. One thing that I have discovered is that the WAN IP address is 192.168.102.100, and the "default gateway" is 192.168.102.1 for the WAN according to the router, whereas the interior IP group is 192.168.122.1XX - (100-199). The LAN IP address is 192.168.122.1 Why is the wan .102.100 and everything else 122.1xx? I have no clue what that means, just that is seems strange to me. The router is the DHCP server for the network (which is a workgroup) and the FTP Server is assigned .106 all of the time, with other machines also assigned specific addresses. I did this so that I could vnc / remote desktop in to my LAN from outside and count on getting to specific machines. I have had all of that working in the past, though I don't guarantee that it still does. It seems to me to be an issue with the router, port forwarding and so forth since I can do everything from inside the network. OTOH, I don't know that my request is even getting out to the internet, never mind back in. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Serv-U How are you trying to get back out and into your FTP server? Are you trying to get to it using a different machine? Check the firewall settings on the machine to see if it is accepting outside connections for the protocol that FTP is listening on. To check if a particular port is being used by a protocol go to the command prompt and type NETSTAT -a. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 4:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; Tech - Database Advisors Inc. Subject: [AccessD] Serv-U I am trying to get Serv-U FTP server going on my server here in my office. The install was simple and just worked. It works just fine inside of my network, using ftp://192.168.122.106 (the server IP address) but I cannot see it going out to the internet and coming back in. I have a dlink 624 (I think) router, in which I have forwarded ports 20 and 21 to 192.168.122.106. I just cannot see the server, from my laptop, going out and back in. One of my tech assists suggested that my ISP might be blocking port 20/21, so I set up the server to look for the ftp at 59999 and then used :59999 at the end to try and force contact at that port. That does not work either. Can anyone suggest how to test this thing, coming in from the outside? If anyone out there knows this stuff, and in particular has experience with Serv-U, can you assist me in getting this working. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this e-mail message and any file, document, previous e-mail message and/or attachment transmitted herewith is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the private use of the addressee and must not be disclosed to or used by anyone other than the addressee. If you receive this transmission by error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of email transmission. Users and employees of the e-mail system are expressly required not to make defamatory statements and not to infringe or authorize any infringement of copyright or any other legal right by email communications. Any such communication is contrary to company policy. The company will not accept any liability in respect of such communication. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Wed Aug 3 00:35:04 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 22:35:04 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Serv-U In-Reply-To: <000401c597bd$7a9e6060$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> References: <000401c597bd$7a9e6060$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: I've tried a few diffrent software firewalls, I've found the easiest to set up w/ the most flexibility is Filezilla server. It sets up easily for passive/active mode. I tried Serv-U for a while and had trouble connecting w/ IE/FF depending on wether I was on the network or on the net. On 8/2/05, John W. Colby wrote: > > I am trying to get Serv-U FTP server going on my server here in my office. > The install was simple and just worked. It works just fine inside of my > network, using ftp://192.168.122.106 (the server IP address) but I cannot > see it going out to the internet and coming back in. I have a dlink 624 (I > think) router, in which I have forwarded ports 20 and 21 to > 192.168.122.106 . > I just cannot see the server, from my laptop, going out and back in. > > One of my tech assists suggested that my ISP might be blocking port 20/21, > so I set up the server to look for the ftp at 59999 and then used :59999 > at > the end to try and force contact at that port. That does not work either. > > Can anyone suggest how to test this thing, coming in from the outside? If > anyone out there knows this stuff, and in particular has experience with > Serv-U, can you assist me in getting this working. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Wed Aug 3 05:28:34 2005 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 12:28:34 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] Terminal Server Default printer. Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF1B5DA9@stekelbes.ithelps.local> When I login to a Terminal server (2K) it automaticly add my local pc's printers so I can print localy. This is a good thing, but it also reset the default printer to my local printer. When disconnecting (logging off) from the Terminal server is deleted my local printer from the server, which he suposed to do but then it put the last installed driver/printer to the default instead of the original default. This is not really a problem when login on as a regular user but when I logon as administrator. Because the administrator is already logged on the main console and runs Access applications to generate Excel files. So every time I log on/off as administrator in Terminal server, my default printer is changed from Laserjet 2200 to the Dymo labelprinter (the last driver I installed). Ofcourse when it generate an excel file it fails on the margins whom are changed in Excel because the Dymo printer has only label format and not A4. I tried to work around to install a second copy of the Laserjet 2200, but this does not help. It still picks the dymo as default. Maybe because its the first printer or maybe because its the last driver I installed. Turning off use printers in the TS profile does help, but then I can not print localy. Is there a way to turn off the change of default printer when login on? Erwin Erwin Craps Zaakvoerder www.ithelps.be/onsgezin This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to the sender. IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg www.ithelps.be * www.boxoffice.be * www.stadleuven.be IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: Info at ithelps.be Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: Staff at boxoffice.be From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Aug 3 12:23:17 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 10:23:17 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Terminal Server Default printer. References: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF1B5DA9@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: <42F0FD85.9040204@shaw.ca> If you are using login scripts you could use something like Set WshNetwork = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Network") WshNetwork.AddWindowsPrinterConnection printerUNC or WshNetwork.SetDefaultPrinter PrinterUNC where PrinterUNC "\\Server\Printername" Long example for setting printers by user group membership http://cwashington.netreach.net/depo/view.asp?Index=1028&ScriptType=vbscript Erwin Craps - IT Helps wrote: > >When I login to a Terminal server (2K) it automaticly add my local pc's >printers so I can print localy. >This is a good thing, but it also reset the default printer to my local >printer. >When disconnecting (logging off) from the Terminal server is deleted my >local printer from the server, which he suposed to do but then it put >the last installed driver/printer to the default instead of the original >default. > >This is not really a problem when login on as a regular user but when I >logon as administrator. >Because the administrator is already logged on the main console and runs >Access applications to generate Excel files. >So every time I log on/off as administrator in Terminal server, my >default printer is changed from Laserjet 2200 to the Dymo labelprinter >(the last driver I installed). >Ofcourse when it generate an excel file it fails on the margins whom are >changed in Excel because the Dymo printer has only label format and not >A4. > >I tried to work around to install a second copy of the Laserjet 2200, >but this does not help. It still picks the dymo as default. Maybe >because its the first printer or maybe because its the last driver I >installed. > >Turning off use printers in the TS profile does help, but then I can not >print localy. > >Is there a way to turn off the change of default printer when login on? > > >Erwin > > > > > > > >Erwin Craps > >Zaakvoerder > >www.ithelps.be/onsgezin > > > >This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the >intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or >reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal >offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to >the sender. > >IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg > >www.ithelps.be * www.boxoffice.be > * www.stadleuven.be > > >IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven > >IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: >Info at ithelps.be > >Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: >Staff at boxoffice.be > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From chizotz at mchsi.com Thu Aug 4 01:47:17 2005 From: chizotz at mchsi.com (Ron Allen) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 01:47:17 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <000401c597bd$7a9e6060$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <26505911.20050804014717@mchsi.com> I've been using -- no, make that "I've been a fairly passionate user and advocate" -- of TrendMicro PCCillin AV for some years now. Over the past several months, I have repeatedly, as in at least 4 or 5 times, had the system tray icon for PCCillin Internet Security suddenly and with no apparent cause simply disappear. When this happens, when I go to update the pattern file manually it tells me "that function is still initializing". Since I don't check my system tray every time I sit down, and have absolutely no desire to, I could conceivably go for weeks or months before noticing that my AV is yet again not receiving autoupdates and yet again I have this annoying problem. I have been around and around with Trend support, and each time they have either fixed the problem with a patch or it has mysteriously "gone away" after I contact them. I've about had it with this. Whatever is causing this problem should have been fixed long ago. I've worked with them on at least four separate times and I think it's been more than that. I'm reasonably sure that I'm not the only one to be experiencing this issue, since they always seem to have an answer, yet I can't locate this error condition addressed in their kb. They never give me a definitive reason for why it's happening, and although they fix it, some way, each time, it keeps coming back. My theory is that their definitions update contains something that causes this, and when my instance auto-updates I get the bad file again and the whole cycle starts over. Be that as it may, I'm ready to change AV. I want to go with a professional company that has regular updates and decent software that will only minimally impact my system. I'm leaning toward McAfee at this point, and am pretty well set against Norton. I won't use AVG or Panda because they each totally trashed my system a few years ago; once burned forever shy. Any comments about McAfee? Any suggestions on the best AV software available now? Thanks for any advice. Ron From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Thu Aug 4 01:59:52 2005 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 08:59:52 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] Terminal Server Default printer. Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF1B5DAC@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Thx I will take a deeper look at it. Erwin -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 7:23 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Terminal Server Default printer. If you are using login scripts you could use something like Set WshNetwork = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Network") WshNetwork.AddWindowsPrinterConnection printerUNC or WshNetwork.SetDefaultPrinter PrinterUNC where PrinterUNC "\\Server\Printername" Long example for setting printers by user group membership http://cwashington.netreach.net/depo/view.asp?Index=1028&ScriptType=vbsc ript Erwin Craps - IT Helps wrote: > >When I login to a Terminal server (2K) it automaticly add my local pc's >printers so I can print localy. >This is a good thing, but it also reset the default printer to my local >printer. >When disconnecting (logging off) from the Terminal server is deleted my >local printer from the server, which he suposed to do but then it put >the last installed driver/printer to the default instead of the >original default. > >This is not really a problem when login on as a regular user but when I >logon as administrator. >Because the administrator is already logged on the main console and >runs Access applications to generate Excel files. >So every time I log on/off as administrator in Terminal server, my >default printer is changed from Laserjet 2200 to the Dymo labelprinter >(the last driver I installed). >Ofcourse when it generate an excel file it fails on the margins whom >are changed in Excel because the Dymo printer has only label format and >not A4. > >I tried to work around to install a second copy of the Laserjet 2200, >but this does not help. It still picks the dymo as default. Maybe >because its the first printer or maybe because its the last driver I >installed. > >Turning off use printers in the TS profile does help, but then I can >not print localy. > >Is there a way to turn off the change of default printer when login on? > > >Erwin > > > > > > > >Erwin Craps > >Zaakvoerder > >www.ithelps.be/onsgezin > > > >This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the >intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or >reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a >criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail >confirmation to the sender. > >IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg > >www.ithelps.be * www.boxoffice.be > * www.stadleuven.be > > >IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven > >IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: >Info at ithelps.be > >Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: >Staff at boxoffice.be > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lembit.soobik at t-online.de Thu Aug 4 05:12:08 2005 From: lembit.soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 12:12:08 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? References: <000401c597bd$7a9e6060$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> <26505911.20050804014717@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <001301c598dc$fa7f21f0$0700a8c0@s1800> Well, Ron, I've had it with McAffee. many years ago during an auto update it started deleting program files including command.com on my PC. I still see the shortcuts on my desktop disappear one after the other. tehy did not find the reason (at least they didnt tell me). I have used Norton for some years, but it became too nasty, and since several years I'm using AVG on 5 PCs without any problems. Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Allen" To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:47 AM Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? > I've been using -- no, make that "I've been a fairly passionate user > and advocate" -- of TrendMicro PCCillin AV for some years now. > > Over the past several months, I have repeatedly, as in at least 4 or 5 > times, had the system tray icon for PCCillin Internet Security > suddenly and with no apparent cause simply disappear. When this > happens, when I go to update the pattern file manually it tells me > "that function is still initializing". Since I don't check my system > tray every time I sit down, and have absolutely no desire to, I could > conceivably go for weeks or months before noticing that my AV is yet > again not receiving autoupdates and yet again I have this annoying > problem. I have been around and around with Trend support, and each > time they have either fixed the problem with a patch or it has > mysteriously "gone away" after I contact them. > > I've about had it with this. Whatever is causing this problem should > have been fixed long ago. I've worked with them on at least four > separate times and I think it's been more than that. I'm reasonably > sure that I'm not the only one to be experiencing this issue, since > they always seem to have an answer, yet I can't locate this error > condition addressed in their kb. They never give me a definitive > reason for why it's happening, and although they fix it, some way, > each time, it keeps coming back. My theory is that their definitions > update contains something that causes this, and when my instance > auto-updates I get the bad file again and the whole cycle starts over. > > Be that as it may, I'm ready to change AV. I want to go with a > professional company that has regular updates and decent software that > will only minimally impact my system. I'm leaning toward McAfee at > this point, and am pretty well set against Norton. I won't use AVG or > Panda because they each totally trashed my system a few years ago; > once burned forever shy. > > Any comments about McAfee? Any suggestions on the best AV software > available now? > > Thanks for any advice. > > Ron > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 02.08.2005 > > From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Thu Aug 4 07:58:10 2005 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 22:28:10 +0930 Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? Message-ID: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD2212303@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> "I still see the shortcuts on my desktop disappear one after the other. tehy did not find the reason (at least they didnt tell me)." Probably because I can't see any conceivable reason how a viruscanner could possibly do this? -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2005 7:42 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? Well, Ron, I've had it with McAffee. many years ago during an auto update it started deleting program files including command.com on my PC. I still see the shortcuts on my desktop disappear one after the other. tehy did not find the reason (at least they didnt tell me). I have used Norton for some years, but it became too nasty, and since several years I'm using AVG on 5 PCs without any problems. Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Allen" To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:47 AM Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? > I've been using -- no, make that "I've been a fairly passionate user > and advocate" -- of TrendMicro PCCillin AV for some years now. > > Over the past several months, I have repeatedly, as in at least 4 or 5 > times, had the system tray icon for PCCillin Internet Security > suddenly and with no apparent cause simply disappear. When this > happens, when I go to update the pattern file manually it tells me > "that function is still initializing". Since I don't check my system > tray every time I sit down, and have absolutely no desire to, I could > conceivably go for weeks or months before noticing that my AV is yet > again not receiving autoupdates and yet again I have this annoying > problem. I have been around and around with Trend support, and each > time they have either fixed the problem with a patch or it has > mysteriously "gone away" after I contact them. > > I've about had it with this. Whatever is causing this problem should > have been fixed long ago. I've worked with them on at least four > separate times and I think it's been more than that. I'm reasonably > sure that I'm not the only one to be experiencing this issue, since > they always seem to have an answer, yet I can't locate this error > condition addressed in their kb. They never give me a definitive > reason for why it's happening, and although they fix it, some way, > each time, it keeps coming back. My theory is that their definitions > update contains something that causes this, and when my instance > auto-updates I get the bad file again and the whole cycle starts over. > > Be that as it may, I'm ready to change AV. I want to go with a > professional company that has regular updates and decent software that > will only minimally impact my system. I'm leaning toward McAfee at > this point, and am pretty well set against Norton. I won't use AVG or > Panda because they each totally trashed my system a few years ago; > once burned forever shy. > > Any comments about McAfee? Any suggestions on the best AV software > available now? > > Thanks for any advice. > > Ron > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 02.08.2005 > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ *** This email any any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Thu Aug 4 08:44:03 2005 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 08:44:03 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? In-Reply-To: <26505911.20050804014717@mchsi.com> References: <000401c597bd$7a9e6060$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> <26505911.20050804014717@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <42F21BA3.2090308@earthlink.net> >Any comments about McAfee? Any suggestions on the best AV software >available now? McAfee was as bad for us as Norton. Grisoft AntiVirus ("AVG") works for us. Free, stable, updates daily (quickly), and nary a virus has got through (over a year now, I think). P. Ron Allen wrote: >I've been using -- no, make that "I've been a fairly passionate user >and advocate" -- of TrendMicro PCCillin AV for some years now. > >Over the past several months, I have repeatedly, as in at least 4 or 5 >times, had the system tray icon for PCCillin Internet Security >suddenly and with no apparent cause simply disappear. When this >happens, when I go to update the pattern file manually it tells me >"that function is still initializing". Since I don't check my system >tray every time I sit down, and have absolutely no desire to, I could >conceivably go for weeks or months before noticing that my AV is yet >again not receiving autoupdates and yet again I have this annoying >problem. I have been around and around with Trend support, and each >time they have either fixed the problem with a patch or it has >mysteriously "gone away" after I contact them. > >I've about had it with this. Whatever is causing this problem should >have been fixed long ago. I've worked with them on at least four >separate times and I think it's been more than that. I'm reasonably >sure that I'm not the only one to be experiencing this issue, since >they always seem to have an answer, yet I can't locate this error >condition addressed in their kb. They never give me a definitive >reason for why it's happening, and although they fix it, some way, >each time, it keeps coming back. My theory is that their definitions >update contains something that causes this, and when my instance >auto-updates I get the bad file again and the whole cycle starts over. > >Be that as it may, I'm ready to change AV. I want to go with a >professional company that has regular updates and decent software that >will only minimally impact my system. I'm leaning toward McAfee at >this point, and am pretty well set against Norton. I won't use AVG or >Panda because they each totally trashed my system a few years ago; >once burned forever shy. > >Any comments about McAfee? Any suggestions on the best AV software >available now? > >Thanks for any advice. > >Ron > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 8/2/2005 From lembit.soobik at t-online.de Thu Aug 4 10:11:38 2005 From: lembit.soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 17:11:38 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? References: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD2212303@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Message-ID: <00a601c59906$d3578930$0700a8c0@s1800> Andrew, that was at the beginning of these updates and they had a method where they ran some software on your PC when you wanted to update. not like today when your PC dials in and downloads the updates. they tried to handle it from the other side, Ithink. this method disappeared soon. Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haslett, Andrew" To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 2:58 PM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? > "I still see the shortcuts on my desktop disappear one after the other. > tehy did not find the reason (at least they didnt tell me)." > > Probably because I can't see any conceivable reason how a viruscanner > could possibly do this? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit > Soobik > Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2005 7:42 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? > > Well, Ron, > I've had it with McAffee. > many years ago during an auto update it started deleting program files > including command.com on my PC. > I still see the shortcuts on my desktop disappear one after the other. > tehy did not find the reason (at least they didnt tell me). > I have used Norton for some years, but it became too nasty, and since > several years I'm using AVG on 5 PCs without any problems. > Lembit > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Allen" > To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:47 AM > Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? > > >> I've been using -- no, make that "I've been a fairly passionate user >> and advocate" -- of TrendMicro PCCillin AV for some years now. >> >> Over the past several months, I have repeatedly, as in at least 4 or 5 >> times, had the system tray icon for PCCillin Internet Security >> suddenly and with no apparent cause simply disappear. When this >> happens, when I go to update the pattern file manually it tells me >> "that function is still initializing". Since I don't check my system >> tray every time I sit down, and have absolutely no desire to, I could >> conceivably go for weeks or months before noticing that my AV is yet >> again not receiving autoupdates and yet again I have this annoying >> problem. I have been around and around with Trend support, and each >> time they have either fixed the problem with a patch or it has >> mysteriously "gone away" after I contact them. >> >> I've about had it with this. Whatever is causing this problem should >> have been fixed long ago. I've worked with them on at least four >> separate times and I think it's been more than that. I'm reasonably >> sure that I'm not the only one to be experiencing this issue, since >> they always seem to have an answer, yet I can't locate this error >> condition addressed in their kb. They never give me a definitive >> reason for why it's happening, and although they fix it, some way, >> each time, it keeps coming back. My theory is that their definitions >> update contains something that causes this, and when my instance >> auto-updates I get the bad file again and the whole cycle starts over. >> >> Be that as it may, I'm ready to change AV. I want to go with a >> professional company that has regular updates and decent software that >> will only minimally impact my system. I'm leaning toward McAfee at >> this point, and am pretty well set against Norton. I won't use AVG or >> Panda because they each totally trashed my system a few years ago; >> once burned forever shy. >> >> Any comments about McAfee? Any suggestions on the best AV software >> available now? >> >> Thanks for any advice. >> >> Ron >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: > 02.08.2005 >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ *** This email any any files transmitted with it > are confidential and may contain information protected by law from > disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the > sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is > given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from > computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user > assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting > directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of > the sender or not. > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 02.08.2005 > > From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Aug 4 11:03:12 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 11:03:12 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? In-Reply-To: <5628997.1123160337459.JavaMail.root@sniper23> Message-ID: <001501c5990e$060f3920$0200a8c0@danwaters> Ron, I've been using Computer Associates EZ Armor (AV + Firewall) for about 3 years. It's been trouble-free and transparent! HTH, Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:58 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? "I still see the shortcuts on my desktop disappear one after the other. tehy did not find the reason (at least they didnt tell me)." Probably because I can't see any conceivable reason how a viruscanner could possibly do this? -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2005 7:42 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? Well, Ron, I've had it with McAffee. many years ago during an auto update it started deleting program files including command.com on my PC. I still see the shortcuts on my desktop disappear one after the other. tehy did not find the reason (at least they didnt tell me). I have used Norton for some years, but it became too nasty, and since several years I'm using AVG on 5 PCs without any problems. Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Allen" To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:47 AM Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? > I've been using -- no, make that "I've been a fairly passionate user > and advocate" -- of TrendMicro PCCillin AV for some years now. > > Over the past several months, I have repeatedly, as in at least 4 or 5 > times, had the system tray icon for PCCillin Internet Security > suddenly and with no apparent cause simply disappear. When this > happens, when I go to update the pattern file manually it tells me > "that function is still initializing". Since I don't check my system > tray every time I sit down, and have absolutely no desire to, I could > conceivably go for weeks or months before noticing that my AV is yet > again not receiving autoupdates and yet again I have this annoying > problem. I have been around and around with Trend support, and each > time they have either fixed the problem with a patch or it has > mysteriously "gone away" after I contact them. > > I've about had it with this. Whatever is causing this problem should > have been fixed long ago. I've worked with them on at least four > separate times and I think it's been more than that. I'm reasonably > sure that I'm not the only one to be experiencing this issue, since > they always seem to have an answer, yet I can't locate this error > condition addressed in their kb. They never give me a definitive > reason for why it's happening, and although they fix it, some way, > each time, it keeps coming back. My theory is that their definitions > update contains something that causes this, and when my instance > auto-updates I get the bad file again and the whole cycle starts over. > > Be that as it may, I'm ready to change AV. I want to go with a > professional company that has regular updates and decent software that > will only minimally impact my system. I'm leaning toward McAfee at > this point, and am pretty well set against Norton. I won't use AVG or > Panda because they each totally trashed my system a few years ago; > once burned forever shy. > > Any comments about McAfee? Any suggestions on the best AV software > available now? > > Thanks for any advice. > > Ron > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 02.08.2005 > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ *** This email any any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From chizotz at mchsi.com Thu Aug 4 11:50:58 2005 From: chizotz at mchsi.com (chizotz at mchsi.com) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 16:50:58 +0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? Message-ID: <080420051650.3900.42F247720001815300000F3C2197924741969B019607080C@mchsi.com> Thanks to all who have replied. A friend has suggested Avast, and after a brief look at the web site it looks promising. Any comments on that AV package, good or bad? Ron From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Aug 4 11:59:09 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 18:59:09 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? Message-ID: Hi Ron Why not support the free GNU/GPL ClamWin: http://www.clamwin.com/ /gustav >>> chizotz at mchsi.com 08/04 6:50 pm >>> Thanks to all who have replied. A friend has suggested Avast, and after a brief look at the web site it looks promising. Any comments on that AV package, good or bad? Ron From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 4 12:15:08 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 13:15:08 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? In-Reply-To: <42F21BA3.2090308@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200508041715.j74HFBR18064@databaseadvisors.com> Yup! I second that emotion. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley Sent: August 4, 2005 9:44 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? >Any comments about McAfee? Any suggestions on the best AV software >available now? McAfee was as bad for us as Norton. Grisoft AntiVirus ("AVG") works for us. Free, stable, updates daily (quickly), and nary a virus has got through (over a year now, I think). P. From bheid at appdevgrp.com Thu Aug 4 12:24:56 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 13:24:56 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C4CDCE@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABEDF2@ADGSERVER> What kind of problems is everyone having with NAV? I have never had any problems with NAV and have been using it since somewhere around 2001. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:15 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? Yup! I second that emotion. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley Sent: August 4, 2005 9:44 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? >Any comments about McAfee? Any suggestions on the best AV software >available now? McAfee was as bad for us as Norton. Grisoft AntiVirus ("AVG") works for us. Free, stable, updates daily (quickly), and nary a virus has got through (over a year now, I think). P. From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Thu Aug 4 12:39:04 2005 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 12:39:04 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABEDF2@ADGSERVER> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABEDF2@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <42F252B8.1020105@earthlink.net> />What kind of problems is everyone having with NAV? I have never had any >problems with NAV and have been using it since somewhere around 2001. / On XP, NAV often stopped functioning for no apparent reason, requiring reboots (sometimes multiple). On W2K and XP, though it was being kept up-to-date, it let /many/ viruses through. On both, it dramatically slowed down email processing and web browsing. A lot of "system" problems went away when it was removed. It was intrusive and ugly. It was so bad, I wouldn't have another Norton product on the premises. PB ----- Bobby Heid wrote: >What kind of problems is everyone having with NAV? I have never had any >problems with NAV and have been using it since somewhere around 2001. > >Bobby > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller >Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:15 PM >To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? > > >Yup! I second that emotion. > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley >Sent: August 4, 2005 9:44 AM >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? > > > >>Any comments about McAfee? Any suggestions on the best AV software >>available now? >> >> > >McAfee was as bad for us as Norton. Grisoft AntiVirus ("AVG") works for >us. Free, stable, updates daily (quickly), and nary a virus has got >through (over a year now, I think). > >P. > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.0/63 - Release Date: 8/3/2005 From lembit.soobik at t-online.de Thu Aug 4 11:39:43 2005 From: lembit.soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 18:39:43 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? References: <001501c5990e$060f3920$0200a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: <00d401c59913$25892360$0700a8c0@s1800> that incident was more than 6 years ago, I think ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Waters" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 6:03 PM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? > Ron, > > I've been using Computer Associates EZ Armor (AV + Firewall) for about 3 > years. It's been trouble-free and transparent! > > HTH, > > Dan Waters > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, > Andrew > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:58 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? > > "I still see the shortcuts on my desktop disappear one after the other. > tehy did not find the reason (at least they didnt tell me)." > > Probably because I can't see any conceivable reason how a viruscanner > could possibly do this? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit > Soobik > Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2005 7:42 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? > > Well, Ron, > I've had it with McAffee. > many years ago during an auto update it started deleting program files > including command.com on my PC. > I still see the shortcuts on my desktop disappear one after the other. > tehy did not find the reason (at least they didnt tell me). > I have used Norton for some years, but it became too nasty, and since > several years I'm using AVG on 5 PCs without any problems. > Lembit > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Allen" > To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:47 AM > Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? > > >> I've been using -- no, make that "I've been a fairly passionate user >> and advocate" -- of TrendMicro PCCillin AV for some years now. >> >> Over the past several months, I have repeatedly, as in at least 4 or 5 >> times, had the system tray icon for PCCillin Internet Security >> suddenly and with no apparent cause simply disappear. When this >> happens, when I go to update the pattern file manually it tells me >> "that function is still initializing". Since I don't check my system >> tray every time I sit down, and have absolutely no desire to, I could >> conceivably go for weeks or months before noticing that my AV is yet >> again not receiving autoupdates and yet again I have this annoying >> problem. I have been around and around with Trend support, and each >> time they have either fixed the problem with a patch or it has >> mysteriously "gone away" after I contact them. >> >> I've about had it with this. Whatever is causing this problem should >> have been fixed long ago. I've worked with them on at least four >> separate times and I think it's been more than that. I'm reasonably >> sure that I'm not the only one to be experiencing this issue, since >> they always seem to have an answer, yet I can't locate this error >> condition addressed in their kb. They never give me a definitive >> reason for why it's happening, and although they fix it, some way, >> each time, it keeps coming back. My theory is that their definitions >> update contains something that causes this, and when my instance >> auto-updates I get the bad file again and the whole cycle starts over. >> >> Be that as it may, I'm ready to change AV. I want to go with a >> professional company that has regular updates and decent software that >> will only minimally impact my system. I'm leaning toward McAfee at >> this point, and am pretty well set against Norton. I won't use AVG or >> Panda because they each totally trashed my system a few years ago; >> once burned forever shy. >> >> Any comments about McAfee? Any suggestions on the best AV software >> available now? >> >> Thanks for any advice. >> >> Ron >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: > 02.08.2005 >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ *** This email any any files transmitted with it > are > confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. > If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender > immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given > that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from > computer > viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes > all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or > indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender > or > not. > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 02.08.2005 > > From bheid at appdevgrp.com Thu Aug 4 12:52:40 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 13:52:40 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C4CDDD@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABEDF4@ADGSERVER> Hmmm. Never had it stop. It may be slowing email down though. But I have never had a virus get through. Maybe I am just lucky. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:39 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? />What kind of problems is everyone having with NAV? I have never had any >problems with NAV and have been using it since somewhere around 2001. / On XP, NAV often stopped functioning for no apparent reason, requiring reboots (sometimes multiple). On W2K and XP, though it was being kept up-to-date, it let /many/ viruses through. On both, it dramatically slowed down email processing and web browsing. A lot of "system" problems went away when it was removed. It was intrusive and ugly. It was so bad, I wouldn't have another Norton product on the premises. PB ----- Bobby Heid wrote: >What kind of problems is everyone having with NAV? I have never had any >problems with NAV and have been using it since somewhere around 2001. > >Bobby > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller >Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:15 PM >To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? > > >Yup! I second that emotion. > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley >Sent: August 4, 2005 9:44 AM >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? > > > >>Any comments about McAfee? Any suggestions on the best AV software >>available now? >> >> > >McAfee was as bad for us as Norton. Grisoft AntiVirus ("AVG") works for >us. Free, stable, updates daily (quickly), and nary a virus has got >through (over a year now, I think). > >P. > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 4 16:23:57 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 07:23:57 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? In-Reply-To: <26505911.20050804014717@mchsi.com> References: Message-ID: <42F3140D.28987.18EEC7A3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> > > Any comments about McAfee? Any suggestions on the best AV software > available now? > Another reason fro avoiding Norton. This just in on another list: This did not work either. My mail was actually sitting at Spamarrest's mail server. Did a CHAT with them and they told me that a recent NORTON "upgrad?" does not permit users with XP to access their server on port 110. Shutting down Norton let me get my mail just fine. -- Stuart From tinanfields at torchlake.com Fri Aug 5 08:43:25 2005 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 09:43:25 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Need New AV -- Suggestions? References: Message-ID: <42F36CFD.4070303@torchlake.com> That looks interesting. I have been buying a 10-computer license for F-Prot (goofy name, I know) from Frisk International for the last 3 or 4 years. The program is fast, unobtrusive, and it doesn't try to install everything from anti-virus to starting the coffee and tea in the morning or take over all the management of my computer (my REALLY big objection to McAfee) - and reasonably priced (though NOT free). It has a number of automatic settings available for those who want them. I check for updates myself rather than use the automatic check (yup, I prefer stick-shift, too, over automatic transmission for my cars - REALLY WIERD PERSON). But, I do use the F-Stop, a real-time monitor for incoming stuff. The ClamWin price and philosophy are very attractive. I will download and look more closely. Thanks for mentioning it. Tina Gustav Brock wrote: >Hi Ron > >Why not support the free GNU/GPL ClamWin: > > http://www.clamwin.com/ > >/gustav > > > >>>>chizotz at mchsi.com 08/04 6:50 pm >>> >>>> >>>> >Thanks to all who have replied. > >A friend has suggested Avast, and after a brief look at the web site it >looks >promising. Any comments on that AV package, good or bad? > >Ron > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk Fri Aug 5 08:56:56 2005 From: Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk (Jon Tydda) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 14:56:56 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Login Scripts Message-ID: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EAC83F06@ALCUXB> Hi all... They've gone and changed a server on me at work, and I need a way to amend 150 login scripts at the same time... I need to rename the server they look at to update the time and date to the new one... is there a quick and easy way, or do I have to manually edit all the text files? And before you ask, no, I'm on an NT4 network, and we're not using Active Directory, although I am assured that it's in the budget for next year... can't wait for THAT weekend... Jon The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject to the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited. Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ. Registered in England and Wales No 4057291 From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Aug 5 14:41:34 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 12:41:34 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Login Scripts References: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EAC83F06@ALCUXB> Message-ID: <42F3C0EE.3060103@shaw.ca> Just copy your files to a new directory and modify this vbs code This searches through each file in a folder with .htm, .html, and .asp extensions and searches for a string. If the string is found it is replaces with a blank or can be modified to replace with another string. http://www.kenhardwick.com/scripts/script_description.asp?ScriptID=182 Lots of other useful scripts here http://www.kenhardwick.com/scripts/results_type.asp http://www.kenhardwick.com/scripts/ Jon Tydda wrote: >Hi all... > >They've gone and changed a server on me at work, and I need a way to amend >150 login scripts at the same time... I need to rename the server they look >at to update the time and date to the new one... is there a quick and easy >way, or do I have to manually edit all the text files? > >And before you ask, no, I'm on an NT4 network, and we're not using Active >Directory, although I am assured that it's in the budget for next year... >can't wait for THAT weekend... > > >Jon > > >The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally >privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject >to the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk >ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited. >Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ. >Registered in England and Wales No 4057291 >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From shamil at users.mns.ru Fri Aug 5 16:12:33 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 01:12:33 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Friday technical reading: Hitting the high notes... Message-ID: <003c01c59a02$67b9f760$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Hi All, Do you agree with this article/statement? "... So, why isn't there room in the software industry for a low cost provider, someone who uses the cheapest programmers available? (Remind me to ask Quark how that whole fire-everybody-and-hire-low-cost-replacements plan is working.) Here's why: duplication of software is free. That means that the cost of programmers is spread out over all the copies of the software you sell. With software, you can improve quality without adding to the incremental cost of each unit sold. Essentially, design adds value faster than it adds cost...." http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/HighNotes.html (I'm curios how you feel about that living there in rather well paid for programmers' work countries as far as I have heard and seen because I'm a kind of (alone) indirectly fighting with low cost programmers army here in my country when I'm trying to get work here at rates, which allow to keep my big family well and I'm also trying to stay straight against "dirt cheap" programmers from India, East Europe (yes, Russia too of course), China, Latin America etc competing for the projects on Internet sites like RentACoder. Not easy excersize I must say. Unfortunately I don't have enough real samples of the code of my competitors to say that cheap programmers can't be good by definition. With some rare exceptions, which only prove this rule. Am I wrong that cheap programmers can't be good? - if I'm wrong and if Joel is wrong then for me this means that programming profession will soon die even there in your countries under the pressure of "dirt cheap" Eastern and Latin America programmers' dumping rates forcing most of software programming to go off-shore...) This another article from Joel is also interesting I think: "Rub a dub dub" http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000348.html Shamil From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 5 16:37:13 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 17:37:13 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Friday technical reading: Hitting the high notes... In-Reply-To: <003c01c59a02$67b9f760$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <000801c59a05$d7844110$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> I think the answer in part lies in the fact that a lot of software is written for "in house" applications, where the total number of seats is fixed and rather low. For example, my clients hire me to write custom apps for small companies. Anywhere from 3 to 40 or 50 users. The "hope" is that doing it in a "dirt cheap" market will lower the total cost. From what I have seen, this simply doesn't work as expected for software due to a host of reasons. Things like call centers can be quite easily sent overseas, but programming is a lot of handholding, a lot of "face to face" meetings to discuss how the thing REALLY works etc. Unfortunately that does not bode well for your "high priced overseas" idea either. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 5:13 PM To: !dba-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Friday technical reading: Hitting the high notes... Hi All, Do you agree with this article/statement? "... So, why isn't there room in the software industry for a low cost provider, someone who uses the cheapest programmers available? (Remind me to ask Quark how that whole fire-everybody-and-hire-low-cost-replacements plan is working.) Here's why: duplication of software is free. That means that the cost of programmers is spread out over all the copies of the software you sell. With software, you can improve quality without adding to the incremental cost of each unit sold. Essentially, design adds value faster than it adds cost...." http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/HighNotes.html (I'm curios how you feel about that living there in rather well paid for programmers' work countries as far as I have heard and seen because I'm a kind of (alone) indirectly fighting with low cost programmers army here in my country when I'm trying to get work here at rates, which allow to keep my big family well and I'm also trying to stay straight against "dirt cheap" programmers from India, East Europe (yes, Russia too of course), China, Latin America etc competing for the projects on Internet sites like RentACoder. Not easy excersize I must say. Unfortunately I don't have enough real samples of the code of my competitors to say that cheap programmers can't be good by definition. With some rare exceptions, which only prove this rule. Am I wrong that cheap programmers can't be good? - if I'm wrong and if Joel is wrong then for me this means that programming profession will soon die even there in your countries under the pressure of "dirt cheap" Eastern and Latin America programmers' dumping rates forcing most of software programming to go off-shore...) This another article from Joel is also interesting I think: "Rub a dub dub" http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000348.html Shamil _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Fri Aug 5 18:47:38 2005 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 09:17:38 +0930 Subject: [dba-Tech] Login Scripts Message-ID: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD2212312@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Where are the login scrits currently located? -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Friday, 5 August 2005 11:27 PM To: Dba-Tech (E-mail) Subject: [dba-Tech] Login Scripts Hi all... They've gone and changed a server on me at work, and I need a way to amend 150 login scripts at the same time... I need to rename the server they look at to update the time and date to the new one... is there a quick and easy way, or do I have to manually edit all the text files? And before you ask, no, I'm on an NT4 network, and we're not using Active Directory, although I am assured that it's in the budget for next year... can't wait for THAT weekend... Jon The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject to the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited. Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ. Registered in England and Wales No 4057291 _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ *** This email any any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 5 18:52:55 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 19:52:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Friday technical reading: Hitting the high notes... In-Reply-To: <003c01c59a02$67b9f760$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <200508052352.j75NqrR06308@databaseadvisors.com> An interesting missive, not surprising from one of the smartest persons on this list. But I think that in at least a couple of areas you have made some serious errors in your analysis, my friend Shamil. 1. Young kids come out of school full of hormones and enthusiasm and empty of any sense of business requirements. (In general.) Given an assignment they can code it adequately and even well, but asked to come up with a design for 400 tables, there are only two chances they'll get it right -- a fat one and a slim one. 2. Add to this problem the knowledge or lack thereof of business of someone in another country (any country will do -- for example, even a US programmer will have trouble with CDN conventions -- Hindman aside of course). Way up here in the cold we sign debits as positive and credits as negative. Perhaps it's all the icebergs that caused this. The point being, Shamil, that nothing NOTHING beats experience. You have demonstrated countless times your virtuosity to this group. Use any of us as references. I personally have subcontracted you and was extremely happy with the results. I am quite confident that many other listers will attest to your skills, even if they haven't actually hired you. I contracted you to do a specific thing that I was not confident that I knew how to do. You did it. Your bill was reasonable, I used the code, the client liked it (I took all the credit of course), and that was that. You can hire cheap or you can hire good. Worse, you can hire expensive that poses as good. If you make this mistake you get a blemish on your resume that lasts forever. Of course this all could be the rationalizations of an old fart who was once a young Turk. But this argument seems to work with various clients. I recall a case where one of the stakeholders mentioned MTBF and I know what it means. I suggested that we add a function to the program to email the clients when the given MTBF was about a month away. Now perhaps this is more a statement about the client than about my perspicacity, but that is neither here nor there. The point is that a long time ago I learned what MTBF means and an opportunity came up to re-use the knowledge. THAT is the point of experience. That is what you can market that the young (regardless how talented) cannot bring to the table -- and more so if they reside in another nation. And there is one more thing. If your clients reside in St. Petersburg then you can face-to-face them, which someone in Beijing or Athens or Cairo cannot do, at least not as inexpensively. Much as I love to work from my home, there is something to be said for face-to-face. So, my friend Shamil, you bring to the table three very important things: 1. experience. 2. breadth. 3. brilliance. Given the sort of assignment that I last gave you, I would choose you in a New York minute over someone 25 years old with no visible track record, even though your price might be 5 times his. Why? 1. You have demonstrated that you can do it. 2. You have a web site and abundant examples of your code to prove it. 3. Your command of English is excellent and my command of Russian is non-existent. >From a manager's point of view (not that I am always in that role, but that is beside the point), my most important priority is "Get it Done." Additional priorites include "On Time" and "On Budget". If I hit all three bases, I and everyone above me are in Biscuit City. If I fail on one, I get a blemish. Two, a scar. Three, it's time to look for a new employer. I can safely say that of all the numerous talented people I have met thanks to this list, you dazzle me. This is not a love letter, just a statement of where I personally think you stand in the world of developers I know. I hired you once. You delivered, on time and on budget. The code worked. Enough said. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: August 5, 2005 5:13 PM To: !dba-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Friday technical reading: Hitting the high notes... Hi All, Do you agree with this article/statement? "... So, why isn't there room in the software industry for a low cost provider, someone who uses the cheapest programmers available? (Remind me to ask Quark how that whole fire-everybody-and-hire-low-cost-replacements plan is working.) Here's why: duplication of software is free. That means that the cost of programmers is spread out over all the copies of the software you sell. With software, you can improve quality without adding to the incremental cost of each unit sold. Essentially, design adds value faster than it adds cost...." http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/HighNotes.html (I'm curios how you feel about that living there in rather well paid for programmers' work countries as far as I have heard and seen because I'm a kind of (alone) indirectly fighting with low cost programmers army here in my country when I'm trying to get work here at rates, which allow to keep my big family well and I'm also trying to stay straight against "dirt cheap" programmers from India, East Europe (yes, Russia too of course), China, Latin America etc competing for the projects on Internet sites like RentACoder. Not easy excersize I must say. Unfortunately I don't have enough real samples of the code of my competitors to say that cheap programmers can't be good by definition. With some rare exceptions, which only prove this rule. Am I wrong that cheap programmers can't be good? - if I'm wrong and if Joel is wrong then for me this means that programming profession will soon die even there in your countries under the pressure of "dirt cheap" Eastern and Latin America programmers' dumping rates forcing most of software programming to go off-shore...) This another article from Joel is also interesting I think: "Rub a dub dub" http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000348.html Shamil _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Sat Aug 6 05:46:07 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 14:46:07 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Friday technical reading: Hitting the highnotes... References: <000801c59a05$d7844110$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <002f01c59a8b$eea99530$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> <<< Unfortunately that does not bode well for your "high priced overseas" idea either. >>> My(?) idea is not "high priced overseas" but "reasonably priced overseas" against what I see and what I'd call "abusive priced overseas" with real money going to all kinds of mediators and managers controlling "semi-slave but effective(?) overseas programmers workforce"... Hopefully Andy will not find this thread as off-topic because the rates we are working at as software programmers professionals all over the World - this question is really a technical question in the sense that reasonable fair rates create fair competition and what happens now as I see it - this is more using advantages of developed world to abuse developing countries than to give the people of developing countries real opportunities and involve them in free Worldwide competition where only experience and talent what really matters. I know that sounds idealistic, sorry (I know Hindman will not agree - I understand his position). So I'm for reasonably priced overseas or Worldwide programmers market, which I'm sure will create a lot of new opportunities to you there and which will not "suck and steal" some of your jobs from there and from here - will not "leak"(that much) the most talented people grown and educated here as it happens now... I do believe this fair market will be created sooner or later and I wish it happened sooner for me to have opportunity to work in it.... And I wanted to invite you to work on this market foundations together for mutual advantage for us and for the coming generations...( I know it sounds pathetic, sorry) Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 1:37 AM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] FYI: Friday technical reading: Hitting the highnotes... > I think the answer in part lies in the fact that a lot of software is > written for "in house" applications, where the total number of seats is > fixed and rather low. For example, my clients hire me to write custom apps > for small companies. Anywhere from 3 to 40 or 50 users. The "hope" is > that doing it in a "dirt cheap" market will lower the total cost. From what > I have seen, this simply doesn't work as expected for software due to a host > of reasons. Things like call centers can be quite easily sent overseas, but > programming is a lot of handholding, a lot of "face to face" meetings to > discuss how the thing REALLY works etc. Unfortunately that does not bode > well for your "high priced overseas" idea either. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 5:13 PM > To: !dba-Tech > Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Friday technical reading: Hitting the high notes... > > > Hi All, > > Do you agree with this article/statement? > > "... So, why isn't there room in the software industry for a low cost > provider, someone who uses the cheapest programmers available? (Remind me to > ask Quark how that whole fire-everybody-and-hire-low-cost-replacements plan > is working.) Here's why: duplication of software is free. That means that > the cost of programmers is spread out over all the copies of the software > you sell. With software, you can improve quality without adding to the > incremental cost of each unit sold. > > Essentially, design adds value faster than it adds cost...." > > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/HighNotes.html > > (I'm curios how you feel about that living there in rather well paid for > programmers' work countries as far as I have heard and seen because I'm a > kind of (alone) indirectly fighting with low cost programmers army here in > my country when I'm trying to get work here at rates, which allow to keep my > big family well and I'm also trying to stay straight against "dirt cheap" > programmers from India, East Europe (yes, Russia too of course), China, > Latin America etc competing for the projects on Internet sites like > RentACoder. Not easy excersize I must say. Unfortunately I don't have > enough real samples of the code of my competitors to say that cheap > programmers can't be good by definition. With some rare exceptions, which > only prove this rule. Am I wrong that cheap programmers can't be good? - if > I'm wrong and if Joel is wrong then for me this means that programming > profession will soon die even there in your countries under the pressure of > "dirt cheap" Eastern and Latin America programmers' dumping rates forcing > most of software programming to go off-shore...) > > This another article from Joel is also interesting I think: > > "Rub a dub dub" http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000348.html > > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Sat Aug 6 08:37:01 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 17:37:01 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Friday technical reading: Hitting the highnotes... References: <200508052352.j75NqrR06308@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <003001c59a8b$eed957c0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Thank you Arthur! I must say I have a few friends as talented as you are and your opinion is very important for me! > But I think that in at least a couple of areas you have made some > serious errors in your analysis, my friend Shamil. But , I didn't get what are these serious mistakes - probably I'm not that smart as you think I'm! :) > 1. Young kids come out of school full of hormones... I think I still have some hormones :) - I have my own four years old kid and I like to play with him in spare time :) And two elder kids are 19 and 17 years old - yes, I think I have saved some hormones despite all that troubles of living in the past in totalitarian country and despite all that troubles, which wild capitalism brought here etc. >... and enthusiasm I'm still enthusiastic (well, I know what burn-out is, I know it well too) - I must say I'm surprised where I do get the strength for this enthusiasm - probably communistic education creates some very strong foundations for groundless(?) enthusiasm, which can't be spoiled by wild capitalism :) Maybe this is just a "thirst to live", which can't be broken nor by communism nor by wild capitalism... And I'm still able to write as much code as I was able to write when I was 25 years old and even more and I do think I know 100+ times more now(well, maybe 20+ times more only - 1 time more for every year of my programming experience ) and I do less mistakes and based on my experience I can generate a lot of code and docs and specs and designs where most of the young people have to type all that manually or have nothing to propose or will not do it the right way from the first time because they still to find/to learn about all the tips&tricks I know about from my experience... > The point being, Shamil, that nothing NOTHING beats experience. Yes, I agree, and I do think the same and I do try to prove/approve that by my work but I have seen a lot of people(/high level managers) who are hunting for miracles and who think that "low priced programmers can create good high priced software products" - I often see the opposite - still "the army of the free cheese hunters" is growing as far as I see: real life example - Alcatel programming center here - I did talk to their chief technical manager (French man) last autumn - it's just so ridiculous what I have heard - the key technical position of this company's software branch here, with a lot of responsibilities - the proposed salary wasn't enough to keep well my family (and by keeping well, I'm not mentioning a salary letting me to buy a good new car, or to go on good vacation twice a year for two weeks or getting bank credit for the good home - but the salary they proposed was just to balance on zero level provided I have already where to live with my family - and even for the young people - the salary they propose ISN'T enough to get bank credit to buy a small flat here- what is that if not abuse and hunting for miracles? I don' believe they can make something good, I can be wrong of course, but as far as I get this is a shame on the West to pay not good enough for (at least) the key company's job positions if this company pretends to be respectful by its own employees and by their customers... > From a manager's point of view (not that I am always in that role, but that > is beside the point), my most important priority is "Get it Done." > Additional priorities include "On Time" and "On Budget". Yes, I know this "mantra": make me this I don't know yet what I want you to make me but do it on fixed time and budget - usual story there too, isn't? Of course I'm always trying to get work done on time and on agreed upon budget - but in programming the expected in the beginning project duration is a "mythical" value and have to be constantly corrected(usually enlarged) as the most experienced in this industry authors write... > And there is one more thing. If your clients reside in St. Petersburg then > you can face-to-face them, which someone in Beijing or Athens or Cairo > cannot do, at least not as inexpensively. Arthur, this isn't generally true, I think. The problem is the lack of experience and will - on your (West) side of the World there are a few people willing to work with professionals living on East here based on reasonable not "dirt cheap" rates. I know there is no probably still high/any economical need on your side to work this way on a broad range. And meanwhile all kinds of "abusers" fill this niche and when eastern programmers don't have any other opportunity they have to go dumping "dirt cheap" just to survive physically (is there any need/sense in this physical survival - let's leave this question out of this technical discussion)... I do know it can be profitable and mutually advantageous this overseas "virtual face-to-face" work based on reasonable rates. I have my own experience of this work (when I have this work) - I see such examples on RentACoder - there are people(coders) from States and Canada and West Europe there who do work based on good rates but when somebody from Russia, or Romania or other East countries bid there - the customers - imagine that! - they say/advise you you should prove you can do work and you should start "dirt cheap" - experience doesn't matter there when you start without a track of records of the work on RentACoder and if you are from East countries - what is that is not spoiled by "dirt cheap" programmers customers?... Well, I did break a little this general opinion - I did start from scratch there and I did get a project for USD777 for expected one week of work(not bad for starters there) in the area where I didn't have almost any experience and I did make it. Of course in the end the rate wasn't high because the worktime was underevaluated as usual. But this work allowed me to get experience in the area where I didn't have almost any and I was paid for that! Not bad after all. And as customer said me I overbid competing lower bids like USD500 because I did explain what and how I will do and asked right questions - and that all in the area where I didn't have experience - so all that bidding and asking was based on intuition and experience from other areas... I do hope that RentACoder will let me to find real customers ready to work based on reasonable moderate rates because this will open them new opportunities and it will bring them good profit and it will let me to not feel abused, do very good work for them and to keep my family well without leaving this wonderland Russia. Meanwhile I keep RentACoder as a good "training center" reserve where I can get new experience working on real life projects and where I will be paid for my getting this new experience.... And there is rather high rates based growing local programming market here - the rates are as high as USD800/day company to company or even higher as far as I have heard from real sources. But this market as many markets here is corrupted - I do keep trying to enter it proposing good work against corruption and generally bad attitude to programmers - I did make this attempt last month - if I will get all the money, which I did claim for this project(reasonable rates not as high as USD800/day(yet) of course) and if this work will have continuation - then it will be another proof of what you say that "NOTHING beats experience." even corruption... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 3:52 AM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] FYI: Friday technical reading: Hitting the highnotes... > An interesting missive, not surprising from one of the smartest persons on > this list. But I think that in at least a couple of areas you have made some > serious errors in your analysis, my friend Shamil. > > 1. Young kids come out of school full of hormones and enthusiasm and empty > of any sense of business requirements. (In general.) Given an assignment > they can code it adequately and even well, but asked to come up with a > design for 400 tables, there are only two chances they'll get it right -- a > fat one and a slim one. > > 2. Add to this problem the knowledge or lack thereof of business of someone > in another country (any country will do -- for example, even a US programmer > will have trouble with CDN conventions -- Hindman aside of course). Way up > here in the cold we sign debits as positive and credits as negative. Perhaps > it's all the icebergs that caused this. > > The point being, Shamil, that nothing NOTHING beats experience. You have > demonstrated countless times your virtuosity to this group. Use any of us as > references. I personally have subcontracted you and was extremely happy with > the results. I am quite confident that many other listers will attest to > your skills, even if they haven't actually hired you. > > I contracted you to do a specific thing that I was not confident that I knew > how to do. You did it. Your bill was reasonable, I used the code, the client > liked it (I took all the credit of course), and that was that. > > You can hire cheap or you can hire good. Worse, you can hire expensive that > poses as good. If you make this mistake you get a blemish on your resume > that lasts forever. > > Of course this all could be the rationalizations of an old fart who was once > a young Turk. But this argument seems to work with various clients. I recall > a case where one of the stakeholders mentioned MTBF and I know what it > means. I suggested that we add a function to the program to email the > clients when the given MTBF was about a month away. Now perhaps this is more > a statement about the client than about my perspicacity, but that is neither > here nor there. The point is that a long time ago I learned what MTBF means > and an opportunity came up to re-use the knowledge. THAT is the point of > experience. That is what you can market that the young (regardless how > talented) cannot bring to the table -- and more so if they reside in another > nation. > > And there is one more thing. If your clients reside in St. Petersburg then > you can face-to-face them, which someone in Beijing or Athens or Cairo > cannot do, at least not as inexpensively. Much as I love to work from my > home, there is something to be said for face-to-face. > > So, my friend Shamil, you bring to the table three very important things: 1. > experience. 2. breadth. 3. brilliance. > > Given the sort of assignment that I last gave you, I would choose you in a > New York minute over someone 25 years old with no visible track record, even > though your price might be 5 times his. Why? 1. You have demonstrated that > you can do it. 2. You have a web site and abundant examples of your code to > prove it. 3. Your command of English is excellent and my command of Russian > is non-existent. > > >From a manager's point of view (not that I am always in that role, but that > is beside the point), my most important priority is "Get it Done." > Additional priorites include "On Time" and "On Budget". If I hit all three > bases, I and everyone above me are in Biscuit City. If I fail on one, I get > a blemish. Two, a scar. Three, it's time to look for a new employer. > > I can safely say that of all the numerous talented people I have met thanks > to this list, you dazzle me. This is not a love letter, just a statement of > where I personally think you stand in the world of developers I know. I > hired you once. You delivered, on time and on budget. The code worked. > > Enough said. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: August 5, 2005 5:13 PM > To: !dba-Tech > Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Friday technical reading: Hitting the high notes... > > Hi All, > > Do you agree with this article/statement? > > "... So, why isn't there room in the software industry for a low cost > provider, someone who uses the cheapest programmers available? (Remind me to > ask Quark how that whole fire-everybody-and-hire-low-cost-replacements plan > is working.) > Here's why: duplication of software is free. That means that the cost of > programmers is spread out over all the copies of the software you sell. With > software, you can improve quality without adding to the incremental cost of > each unit sold. > > Essentially, design adds value faster than it adds cost...." > > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/HighNotes.html > > (I'm curios how you feel about that living there in rather well paid for > programmers' work countries as far as I have heard and seen because I'm a > kind of (alone) indirectly fighting with low cost programmers army here in > my country when I'm trying to get work here at rates, which allow to keep my > big family well and I'm also trying to stay straight against "dirt cheap" > programmers from India, East Europe (yes, Russia too of course), China, > Latin America etc competing for the projects on Internet sites like > RentACoder. Not easy excersize I must say. Unfortunately I don't have > enough real samples of the code of my competitors to say that cheap > programmers can't be good by definition. With some rare exceptions, which > only prove this rule. Am I wrong that cheap programmers can't be good? - if > I'm wrong and if Joel is wrong then for me this means that programming > profession will soon die even there in your countries under the pressure of > "dirt cheap" Eastern and Latin America programmers' dumping rates forcing > most of software programming to go off-shore...) > > This another article from Joel is also interesting I think: > > "Rub a dub dub" > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000348.html > > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Aug 6 09:36:56 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 10:36:56 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Friday technical reading: Hitting the highnotes... In-Reply-To: <002f01c59a8b$eea99530$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <001901c59a94$4ee82080$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Shamil, I do apologize, of course "reasonably priced overseas" is true, however "reasonably priced overseas" to someone looking for offshore work is "as low as I can get". They don't go overseas to get a price close to what they get here. Let me give you a (painfully) real example. I worked for a company here in Connecticut that made screws. I worked for him for about 2 years and moved him from a POS non-relational thing designed by the stock room guy to a fully relational, complex database for tracking most of the phases of his business. We parted ways. A year or so later he came back and asked me to move the whole thing to SQL Server. I told him it would take me 3 or 4 months to do that. The system was designed (by me) using all the tricks that Access allows but which don't necessarily port easily, and there was significant work to be done. My quote was about 12k to 15k. He thought that was unreasonable and went away. I discovered that he had contracted with an Indian firm (in India) to supply 3 programmers, was quoted 3 or 4 months (with 3 programmers working on it). Because of their wages, the "total cost of the project" would be significantly less than my quote, even with 3 programmers. He took it. A YEAR later it wasn't finished, he was flying to India to meet with the team etc. etc. A YEAR LATER three programmers were unable to do what I estimate would have taken me 3 months. Given, I wrote the original. I knew it inside and out. I knew how to attack the problem to minimize the work involved. As far as I can estimate, he has probably spent 50K and it still isn't done. I have no sympathy. The moral of this story is that the business owner only saw one thing - a firm that claimed experience capable of doing the job, who would throw 3 guys at the problem for 50% of my hourly rate. He got what he paid for. Unfortunately this is the mindset you (and I) fight against. It is not my intention to discourage you, only to say what I see. It is my belief that as long as there are wage disparities of 5x or 10x, jobs will move to that lower cost area. It is particularly true in manual labor where all that matters are simple skills. In the case of software, India and Russia have excelled in attracting this kind of work because of their educational systems ability to train workers that can do this stuff, and at least in India's case, because they (kind of) speak the same language (English). I am emotionally torn with the whole situation. Russia and India need the work, need the wages, need the currency. So do I. It is my belief that the only way that jobs will quit moving is to have wage parity between all countries around the world. That has so far never been the case, and I see no sign that it (wage parity) will be the case any time in the next century, especially with China coming on line with BILLIONS of laborers. I do think that it is slooooowly happening though. In the free market system, work creates wealth which creates more work which creates more wealth - an endless cycle. As wealth goes up, so do wages. India is beginning to see increased labor costs as they pull money out of the more affluent countries into their economy, the laborers start to ask for higher wages etc. It takes time, but it does happen. Look at "made in Japan". The cost of labor in Japan is now so high that the jobs moved on. I wish you well Shamil. You know that I admire you greatly, I hold you in high esteem and I pray that you find the means to keep your family in a style appropriate with your obvious abilities. Likewise, I pray the same thing for myself. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 6:46 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Friday technical reading: Hitting the highnotes... <<< Unfortunately that does not bode well for your "high priced overseas" idea either. >>> My(?) idea is not "high priced overseas" but "reasonably priced overseas" against what I see and what I'd call "abusive priced overseas" with real money going to all kinds of mediators and managers controlling "semi-slave but effective(?) overseas programmers workforce"... Hopefully Andy will not find this thread as off-topic because the rates we are working at as software programmers professionals all over the World - this question is really a technical question in the sense that reasonable fair rates create fair competition and what happens now as I see it - this is more using advantages of developed world to abuse developing countries than to give the people of developing countries real opportunities and involve them in free Worldwide competition where only experience and talent what really matters. I know that sounds idealistic, sorry (I know Hindman will not agree - I understand his position). So I'm for reasonably priced overseas or Worldwide programmers market, which I'm sure will create a lot of new opportunities to you there and which will not "suck and steal" some of your jobs from there and from here - will not "leak"(that much) the most talented people grown and educated here as it happens now... I do believe this fair market will be created sooner or later and I wish it happened sooner for me to have opportunity to work in it.... And I wanted to invite you to work on this market foundations together for mutual advantage for us and for the coming generations...( I know it sounds pathetic, sorry) Shamil From shamil at users.mns.ru Sat Aug 6 12:16:48 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 21:16:48 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Friday technical reading: Hitting the highnotes... References: <001901c59a94$4ee82080$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <001e01c59aaa$a3ad5250$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> > As far as I can estimate, he has probably spent 50K and it still isn't done. > I have no sympathy. John, I have the same painful experience. Most of the cases are like yours. When somebody is hunting for "dirt-cheap" software programmers they in the end have the same of higher expenses and very often they don't have any useful results. Of course there are success stories too but the rate of failure is very high when low price what matters not real experience... You have had Indians who "crossed your road" and I for the last ten years had Indians and Czechs who "has stolen" a very big project when I did most of the dirty work, then Indians again and what is the most painful is that one Russian who did beat me by dumping price after several years of my heavy but successful work for one abroad company. I have seen the work of this Russian - not bad but it costs as low as his rate is because of many design mistakes etc. I have seen the work of one Romanian guy who claims to be a manager of his own company and who has found an American partner who probably "got hooked" on his low rates - I'm sorry to say that this code is a mess, working but a mess and its support and extension is very costly.... Of course I did do mistakes too, I'm not ideal, but these are mainly very low competitors prices, which "had stolen" many of my prospect customers not my mistakes.... I see people hired here based on low salary - and these people spend several weeks on work I can do in a few days, with better results usually, with clear perspectives for extension and continuation etc. But this country is a real wonderland - they are corrupted, greedy and unfair most of these so called new Russians who control job market here - the real free economy doesn't work yet well here - they build palaces paying pennies for their workers, I can never understand that.... > I am emotionally torn with the whole situation. Russia and India need the > work, need the wages, need the currency. So do I. Yes, this is a paradox, John, I'm beating with for the last ten years... > It is my belief that the only way that jobs will quit moving is to have wage > parity between all countries around the world. Yes, John, but reasonable parity when for the same quality and quantity of work people are paid differently in absolute figures but that payments are good enough for them because of the differences of life spending in different areas of this World and these differences will not disappear soon, probably never as they exists in different states of your country: I know I need around USD5500 before taxes to keep very well my family of 5 people here working alone, I know this will not be enough if I lived in NYC, far from enough for this my family of five people - so for the same quality and quantity of work but for reasonably lower prices I can do work for, say, my NYC customer, the work they can't do because they don't have enough financial resources(another question does it make sense for them to start this work at all if they don't have enough resources for it there - let's assume it makes sense to make it) - this is what I call the new opportunities - such work made well because I do have experience to make it well, even more I can help to make it well because of my experience - the results of this work can create new jobs there and here not steal jobs from there and "leak brains" from here - all that sounds idealistic I know and you can find my reasonable parity rate as high as USD5500/month too high to be true - but this isn't a "dream figure" - I did work based on that and higher rates in the past, my today's rate isn't as high and I have to work almost non stop - a kind of work to death you know.... Of course my reasonable parity idea doesn't limit anyhow the rates - I would be more than feeling lucky working USD800/day just a week or so in a month and spending he rest of time with my family, traveling , doing sports etc. - but this is my duty to prove these high costs are reasonable - and ~USD5500/month before taxes - I can show what I need all these money for to be spent and saved here. And as I think USD2000+/month is a reasonable rate for young living alone professionals programmers from here - based on that rate they will probably never leave this country they build their future here by their own hands. And they will become really free. And these are customers' duties and fair market and fair competition to work based on reasonable not abusive rates (young programmers here work at 500-600USD/month and USD800-1000/month average in off-shore companies), which create more problems here and there as far as I see (am I blind?) than open new opportunities.... > In the free market system, work creates wealth which creates more > work which creates more wealth - an endless cycle. As wealth goes up, > so do wages. Yes, John, you're right of course, but with reasonable fair rates all over the World this free market wealth growing cycle would have worked quicker for mutual advantages - what we have now in this World: you have a so called developed World there we have a wild capitalism here, very slowly growing economy, with most of the population living badly - we need money investments, we need new technologies, we need talented managers with good experience - we need a lot - but first of all fair competition and fair reasonable prices based on talents and experience. What we get from the free developed World instead of all that ? - the managers like in Alcatel "hunting for miracles" - and we should thank you for that "gifts"? I'm not sure... - and of course this is a rhetoric question/sentence not a question to you John... > Likewise, I pray the same > thing for myself. Yes, John, I wish you well too! And I think, John, we can work and pray together despite of all the social and religious differences we have. I do hope the life level differences will disappear in several centuries... Religious differences - they will probably never disappear in this World but they shouldn't disturb this World to live in peace and to cooperate... Thank you, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 6:36 PM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] FYI: Friday technical reading: Hitting the highnotes... > Shamil, > > I do apologize, of course "reasonably priced overseas" is true, however > "reasonably priced overseas" to someone looking for offshore work is "as low > as I can get". They don't go overseas to get a price close to what they get > here. Let me give you a (painfully) real example. > > I worked for a company here in Connecticut that made screws. I worked for > him for about 2 years and moved him from a POS non-relational thing designed > by the stock room guy to a fully relational, complex database for tracking > most of the phases of his business. We parted ways. > > A year or so later he came back and asked me to move the whole thing to SQL > Server. I told him it would take me 3 or 4 months to do that. The system > was designed (by me) using all the tricks that Access allows but which don't > necessarily port easily, and there was significant work to be done. > > My quote was about 12k to 15k. He thought that was unreasonable and went > away. I discovered that he had contracted with an Indian firm (in India) to > supply 3 programmers, was quoted 3 or 4 months (with 3 programmers working > on it). Because of their wages, the "total cost of the project" would be > significantly less than my quote, even with 3 programmers. He took it. A > YEAR later it wasn't finished, he was flying to India to meet with the team > etc. etc. > > A YEAR LATER three programmers were unable to do what I estimate would have > taken me 3 months. Given, I wrote the original. I knew it inside and out. > I knew how to attack the problem to minimize the work involved. > > As far as I can estimate, he has probably spent 50K and it still isn't done. > I have no sympathy. > > The moral of this story is that the business owner only saw one thing - a > firm that claimed experience capable of doing the job, who would throw 3 > guys at the problem for 50% of my hourly rate. He got what he paid for. > Unfortunately this is the mindset you (and I) fight against. > > It is not my intention to discourage you, only to say what I see. It is my > belief that as long as there are wage disparities of 5x or 10x, jobs will > move to that lower cost area. It is particularly true in manual labor where > all that matters are simple skills. In the case of software, India and > Russia have excelled in attracting this kind of work because of their > educational systems ability to train workers that can do this stuff, and at > least in India's case, because they (kind of) speak the same language > (English). > > I am emotionally torn with the whole situation. Russia and India need the > work, need the wages, need the currency. So do I. > > It is my belief that the only way that jobs will quit moving is to have wage > parity between all countries around the world. That has so far never been > the case, and I see no sign that it (wage parity) will be the case any time > in the next century, especially with China coming on line with BILLIONS of > laborers. I do think that it is slooooowly happening though. In the free > market system, work creates wealth which creates more work which creates > more wealth - an endless cycle. As wealth goes up, so do wages. India is > beginning to see increased labor costs as they pull money out of the more > affluent countries into their economy, the laborers start to ask for higher > wages etc. It takes time, but it does happen. Look at "made in Japan". > The cost of labor in Japan is now so high that the jobs moved on. > > I wish you well Shamil. You know that I admire you greatly, I hold you in > high esteem and I pray that you find the means to keep your family in a > style appropriate with your obvious abilities. Likewise, I pray the same > thing for myself. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 6:46 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Friday technical reading: Hitting the > highnotes... > > > <<< > Unfortunately that does not bode > well for your "high priced overseas" idea either. > >>> > My(?) idea is not "high priced overseas" but "reasonably priced overseas" > against what I see and what I'd call "abusive priced overseas" with real > money going to all kinds of mediators and managers controlling "semi-slave > but effective(?) overseas programmers workforce"... > > Hopefully Andy will not find this thread as off-topic because the rates we > are working at as software programmers professionals all over the World - > this question is really a technical question in the sense that reasonable > fair rates create fair competition and what happens now as I see it - this > is more using advantages of developed world to abuse developing countries > than to give the people of developing countries real opportunities and > involve them in free Worldwide competition where only experience and talent > what really matters. I know that sounds idealistic, sorry (I know Hindman > will not agree - I understand his position). > > So I'm for reasonably priced overseas or Worldwide programmers market, which > I'm sure will create a lot of new opportunities to you there and which will > not "suck and steal" some of your jobs from there and from here - will not > "leak"(that much) the most talented people grown and educated here as it > happens now... > > I do believe this fair market will be created sooner or later and I wish it > happened sooner for me to have opportunity to work in it.... And I wanted to > invite you to work on this market foundations together for mutual advantage > for us and for the coming generations...( I know it sounds pathetic, sorry) > > Shamil > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Sat Aug 6 13:35:35 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 22:35:35 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] BT CEO: Offshoring is "better and cheaper" - it's the next step in a global world where people will compete individually... Message-ID: <000301c59ab6$39806b90$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Quoting BT CEO Ben Verwaayen: "Globalisation is a good thing, a very good thing and I would like to remind everyone for a long time the West did a lot of talking about how aid should transfer into trade. Now it's happening and we say 'oh my god, it's not what we intended' ... "In our world, we have to rethink how are we going to survive, how we going to survive in a world where the click of a mouse skips distance... Our leadership, collectively, have not articulated the problem, let alone articulated the answer". ... "It's the next step in a global world where people will compete individually." http://management.silicon.com/careers/0,39024671,39130904,00.htm From Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk Mon Aug 8 03:11:20 2005 From: Jon.Tydda at alcontrol.co.uk (Jon Tydda) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 09:11:20 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Login Scripts Message-ID: <87C856B802C3D511B69B0002A5CD10EAC83F16@ALCUXB> They're all in the C:\winnt\system32\repl\import folder on the servers... once I change them there, I'd have to copy them to the export folder, and do the same again on another server too. The trouble is that I'm only going to be doing it to about a third of the scripts, because the rest aren't my responsibility and I don't want to tread on any toes... Jon -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: 06 August 2005 00:48 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Login Scripts Where are the login scrits currently located? -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Friday, 5 August 2005 11:27 PM To: Dba-Tech (E-mail) Subject: [dba-Tech] Login Scripts Hi all... They've gone and changed a server on me at work, and I need a way to amend 150 login scripts at the same time... I need to rename the server they look at to update the time and date to the new one... is there a quick and easy way, or do I have to manually edit all the text files? And before you ask, no, I'm on an NT4 network, and we're not using Active Directory, although I am assured that it's in the budget for next year... can't wait for THAT weekend... Jon The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject to the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited. Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ. Registered in England and Wales No 4057291 _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ *** This email any any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be legally privileged. The contents are intended for recipient only and are subject to the legal notice available on request from : webmaster at alcontrol.co.uk ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of ALcontrol UK Limited. Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill Close, Rotherham, S60 1BZ. Registered in England and Wales No 4057291 From shamil at users.mns.ru Mon Aug 8 15:17:24 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 00:17:24 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Reading recommendation: Extreme Programming Adventures in C# by Ron Jeffries... Message-ID: <000f01c59c56$75844390$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Hi All, This book looks like becoming one of the first in my top ten books' list on programming: Extreme Programming Adventures in C# by Ron Jeffries " First, what this is not: 1. This is not a textbook on eXtreme Programming 2. This is not a textbook on C# 3. This is not a textbook on .NET If you want to learn How C# works, just to buy another book about the syntax. But if you want to lear how to program, especially how to program with intention. I strongly recommend you to buy this book. It is the right book that a master programmer teaches you what programming really is and how to program efficiently. Personally, the nice thing about the book is that the way he wrote the book makes me think he's no better than me when he's coding :) Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Aug 11 10:43:52 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:43:52 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] Stalker CommuniGate Pro Message-ID: Hi All This 50-user client could be well off with a mail server like Mercury(/32) but he insists on having basic calendering features too. Trying to avoid an Exchange setup (this is a Mac and Linux server shop), and as his sister company uses CommuniGate Pro with success for an nnGB mail server, though not using the calender feature of CG Pro, it could be nice to implement CG Pro to serve his Outlook and Entourage clients. License cost is not an issue. Anyone having experience with CG Pro? Would you recommend this route? /gustav From listmaster at databaseadvisors.com Sun Aug 14 08:50:58 2005 From: listmaster at databaseadvisors.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:50:58 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Administrivia - Lists Temporarily Down Message-ID: <42FF1402.5531.150D8B@listmaster.databaseadvisors.com> The company that hosts our lists will be doing some maintenance on their network from 11PM Aug 16 to 6 AM Aug 17 CST (04:00 to 11:00 on Aug 17 UTC - http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/tzc.tzc to find out what time it is in your timezone)) They are upgrading their core routers, which will cause dba's list, and associated web pages (not the Website, but the list pages, including archives) to be down, anywhere from a few minutes to an hour. Hopefully this does not cause anyone too much of an inconvenience. -- Bryan Carbonnell - listmaster at databaseadvisors.com If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From artful at rogers.com Sun Aug 14 15:42:48 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:42:48 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] GoogleEarth and WinServer 2003 In-Reply-To: <42FF1402.5531.150D8B@listmaster.databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200508142042.j7EKgnR14994@databaseadvisors.com> I can run GoogleEarth in OpenGL mode but not in DirectX mode. The former is much slower. Do I need to install some DirectX stuff to make it work? The chip and the RAM meet the specs but I get busted at the start with a message saying I can't support DirectX. OpenGL works but painfully slowly -- reminds me of the old Portuguese guy who comes around to sharpen knives. He's lousy at the job but we all feel sorry for him and give him work anyway. Any download recommendations so I can make DirectX work? TIA, Arthur From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Aug 14 17:03:40 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 08:03:40 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] GoogleEarth and WinServer 2003 In-Reply-To: <200508142042.j7EKgnR14994@databaseadvisors.com> References: <42FF1402.5531.150D8B@listmaster.databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <43004C5C.14538.8E20867@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 14 Aug 2005 at 16:42, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I can run GoogleEarth in OpenGL mode but not in DirectX mode. The former is > much slower. Do I need to install some DirectX stuff to make it work? The > chip and the RAM meet the specs but I get busted at the start with a message > saying I can't support DirectX. OpenGL works but painfully slowly -- reminds > me of the old Portuguese guy who comes around to sharpen knives. He's lousy > at the job but we all feel sorry for him and give him work anyway. > > Any download recommendations so I can make DirectX work? > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/directx/default.aspx?url=/windows/directx/d ownloads/default.htm (watch for wrap) -- Stuart From shamil at users.mns.ru Tue Aug 16 06:29:28 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 15:29:28 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Setup Error: Failed to load resources from resource file. Message-ID: <001b01c5a255$c54265b0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Hi All, Have anybody seen such a strange error message for a C# WinForms program, which worked OK after installation on end-user's PC but then stopped? (It still works OK on my development PC and on my test PC) I did search Internet of course but I didn't find definitive answer what may cause this runtime error to appear. Here is one of the links on the thread discussing this problem http://www.dotnet247.com/247reference/msgs/34/174172.aspx If anybody have seen something like the subject error message and did solved the problem please share your experience here. Any help would be greatly appreciated! TIA, Shamil -- Web: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Aug 16 09:47:11 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 09:47:11 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] OT - Excel VBA Cell Selection Syntax (x-posted) Message-ID: <000201c5a271$63f85370$0300a8c0@danwaters> Hello to All, I'm struggling with syntax for the selection of cells when trying to use row and column indexes. Below is an example: Example A: Worksheets("Available Items").Range("A2:B123").Select Example B: Worksheets("Available Items").Range(Cells(2, 1), Cells(123, 2)).Select Example A works fine, but B does not. Both are from Excel Help files (see the Range Property). Once this works I will substitute a variable for the 123 value. Thanks! Dan Waters From shamil at users.mns.ru Tue Aug 16 15:52:59 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 00:52:59 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] OT - Excel VBA Cell Selection Syntax (x-posted) References: <000201c5a271$63f85370$0300a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: <003b01c5a2a4$866ffe70$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Dan, Both work OK here with MS Excel 2003 when ("Available Items") is active worksheet. I think you need to refactor your code to have: Dim wks As Excel.Worksheet Set wks = Worksheets("Available Items") wks.Select wks.Range(wks.Cells(2, 1), wks.Cells(123, 2)).Select HTH, Shamil -- Web: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Waters" To: "DBA-Tech" ; "AccessD" Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 6:47 PM Subject: [dba-Tech] OT - Excel VBA Cell Selection Syntax (x-posted) > Hello to All, > > I'm struggling with syntax for the selection of cells when trying to use row > and column indexes. Below is an example: > > Example A: > Worksheets("Available Items").Range("A2:B123").Select > > Example B: > Worksheets("Available Items").Range(Cells(2, 1), Cells(123, 2)).Select > > Example A works fine, but B does not. Both are from Excel Help files (see > the Range Property). Once this works I will substitute a variable for the > 123 value. > > Thanks! > Dan Waters > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Aug 16 16:47:37 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:47:37 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] OT - Excel VBA Cell Selection Syntax (x-posted) In-Reply-To: <14518869.1124225504192.JavaMail.root@sniper17> Message-ID: <000001c5a2ac$2072db80$0300a8c0@danwaters> Yahoooo! That worked like a charm! Also - you called this refactoring. I've heard that term before - what does it mean? Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 3:53 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT - Excel VBA Cell Selection Syntax (x-posted) Dan, Both work OK here with MS Excel 2003 when ("Available Items") is active worksheet. I think you need to refactor your code to have: Dim wks As Excel.Worksheet Set wks = Worksheets("Available Items") wks.Select wks.Range(wks.Cells(2, 1), wks.Cells(123, 2)).Select HTH, Shamil -- Web: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Waters" To: "DBA-Tech" ; "AccessD" Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 6:47 PM Subject: [dba-Tech] OT - Excel VBA Cell Selection Syntax (x-posted) > Hello to All, > > I'm struggling with syntax for the selection of cells when trying to use row > and column indexes. Below is an example: > > Example A: > Worksheets("Available Items").Range("A2:B123").Select > > Example B: > Worksheets("Available Items").Range(Cells(2, 1), Cells(123, 2)).Select > > Example A works fine, but B does not. Both are from Excel Help files (see > the Range Property). Once this works I will substitute a variable for the > 123 value. > > Thanks! > Dan Waters > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Wed Aug 17 05:45:27 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:45:27 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] OT - Excel VBA Cell Selection Syntax (x-posted) References: <000001c5a2ac$2072db80$0300a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: <001e01c5a318$c9e07440$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> > Also - you called this refactoring. I've heard that term before > - what does it mean? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refactoring http://www.refactoring.com Although the code change was more than refactoring - it was code fixing + refactoring... Shamil -- Web: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Waters" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:47 AM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] OT - Excel VBA Cell Selection Syntax (x-posted) > Yahoooo! > > That worked like a charm! > > Also - you called this refactoring. I've heard that term before - what does > it mean? > > Dan Waters > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 3:53 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT - Excel VBA Cell Selection Syntax (x-posted) > > Dan, > > Both work OK here with MS Excel 2003 when ("Available Items") is active > worksheet. > I think you need to refactor your code to have: > > Dim wks As Excel.Worksheet > Set wks = Worksheets("Available Items") > wks.Select > wks.Range(wks.Cells(2, 1), wks.Cells(123, 2)).Select > > HTH, > Shamil > -- > Web: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Waters" > To: "DBA-Tech" ; "AccessD" > > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 6:47 PM > Subject: [dba-Tech] OT - Excel VBA Cell Selection Syntax (x-posted) > > > > Hello to All, > > > > I'm struggling with syntax for the selection of cells when trying to use > row > > and column indexes. Below is an example: > > > > Example A: > > Worksheets("Available Items").Range("A2:B123").Select > > > > Example B: > > Worksheets("Available Items").Range(Cells(2, 1), Cells(123, 2)).Select > > > > Example A works fine, but B does not. Both are from Excel Help files (see > > the Range Property). Once this works I will substitute a variable for the > > 123 value. > > > > Thanks! > > Dan Waters > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-Tech mailing list > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 17 11:50:25 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 11:50:25 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Message-ID: <200508171650.j7HGoSR26507@databaseadvisors.com> Blast it all! OK, I guess I might as well start looking for a different good, free firewall! Suggestions? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 17 11:58:33 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 12:58:33 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies In-Reply-To: <200508171650.j7HGoSR26507@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <00be01c5a34c$e6984cf0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Sigh. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 12:50 PM To: _DBA-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Blast it all! OK, I guess I might as well start looking for a different good, free firewall! Suggestions? _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jon at tydda.plus.com Wed Aug 17 12:07:06 2005 From: jon at tydda.plus.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:07:06 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies In-Reply-To: <200508171650.j7HGoSR26507@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200508171707.j7HH77R30980@databaseadvisors.com> Zonealarm!!! The professional version has anti virus in it (which I don't use) and it's now got anti-spyware too... Can't have enough of those around... Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 17 August 2005 17:50 To: _DBA-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Blast it all! OK, I guess I might as well start looking for a different good, free firewall! Suggestions? _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This email has been verified as Virus free Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Aug 17 13:28:40 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:28:40 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C5E455@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABEE65@ADGSERVER> I was thinking the same thing! Bobby -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 12:50 PM To: _DBA-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Blast it all! OK, I guess I might as well start looking for a different good, free firewall! Suggestions? From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Aug 17 13:29:21 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:29:21 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C5E46C@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABEE66@ADGSERVER> Is it configurable as Sygate? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:07 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Zonealarm!!! The professional version has anti virus in it (which I don't use) and it's now got anti-spyware too... Can't have enough of those around... Jon From jon at tydda.plus.com Wed Aug 17 15:18:09 2005 From: jon at tydda.plus.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 21:18:09 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABEE66@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <200508172018.j7HKI9R13542@databaseadvisors.com> I don't know... I've not used Sygate... Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: 17 August 2005 19:29 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Is it configurable as Sygate? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:07 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Zonealarm!!! The professional version has anti virus in it (which I don't use) and it's now got anti-spyware too... Can't have enough of those around... Jon _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This email has been verified as Virus free Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 17 16:51:06 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:51:06 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies In-Reply-To: <200508171650.j7HGoSR26507@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <43043DEA.8.3162548@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 17 Aug 2005 at 11:50, John Bartow wrote: > Blast it all! > > OK, I guess I might as well start looking for a different good, free > firewall! > I use Kerio. The free "for personal use" version does all I need it to. -- Stuart From fhtapia at gmail.com Wed Aug 17 17:47:09 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:47:09 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Sygate scoops up Sygate... Message-ID: http://www.technewsworld.com/story/sXQaBx5Sybx8rO/Symantec-Scoops-Up-Sygate-Technologies.xhtml I've been using Sygate for quite some time, and it's been an excellent product. I currently run the Pro version on my home system, and have found it to be a great value, When the sasser exploit hit machines in my company, I did not suffer the same fate of being rebooted because of external machines hitting my box. I was able to download the patch and helpout my fellow suffering co-workers. Only recently did I ever have any issues, and that was more of the way the cisco vpn client is written... I migrated to the correct build from Sygate and have not had any issues. This corp buy out leaves me wondering how well the next defenition files will be like, and what support might be like for the product. -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 17 18:15:55 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:15:55 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies In-Reply-To: <200508171707.j7HH77R30980@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200508172315.j7HNFsR17861@databaseadvisors.com> FREE, I need FREE. Is it? -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 12:07 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Zonealarm!!! The professional version has anti virus in it (which I don't use) and it's now got anti-spyware too... Can't have enough of those around... Jon From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Wed Aug 17 19:13:37 2005 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:43:37 +0930 Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Message-ID: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD221236C@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> The reason many are using Sygate is because they ditched ZoneAlarm. I guess it may have improved over recent versions but not holding my breath. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2005 2:37 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Zonealarm!!! The professional version has anti virus in it (which I don't use) and it's now got anti-spyware too... Can't have enough of those around... Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 17 August 2005 17:50 To: _DBA-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Blast it all! OK, I guess I might as well start looking for a different good, free firewall! Suggestions? _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This email has been verified as Virus free Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ *** This email any any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 17 19:20:50 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 20:20:50 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies In-Reply-To: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD221236C@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Message-ID: <00f801c5a38a$b0063ba0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >The reason many are using Sygate is because they ditched ZoneAlarm. Uhhh... Yep. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:14 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies The reason many are using Sygate is because they ditched ZoneAlarm. I guess it may have improved over recent versions but not holding my breath. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2005 2:37 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Zonealarm!!! The professional version has anti virus in it (which I don't use) and it's now got anti-spyware too... Can't have enough of those around... Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 17 August 2005 17:50 To: _DBA-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Blast it all! OK, I guess I might as well start looking for a different good, free firewall! Suggestions? _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This email has been verified as Virus free Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ *** This email any any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Wed Aug 17 19:28:31 2005 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:58:31 +0930 Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Message-ID: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD221236D@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Glad you agree. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2005 9:51 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies >The reason many are using Sygate is because they ditched ZoneAlarm. Uhhh... Yep. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:14 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies The reason many are using Sygate is because they ditched ZoneAlarm. I guess it may have improved over recent versions but not holding my breath. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2005 2:37 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Zonealarm!!! The professional version has anti virus in it (which I don't use) and it's now got anti-spyware too... Can't have enough of those around... Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 17 August 2005 17:50 To: _DBA-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Blast it all! OK, I guess I might as well start looking for a different good, free firewall! Suggestions? _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This email has been verified as Virus free Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ *** This email any any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ *** This email any any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Aug 17 20:51:55 2005 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 21:51:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies References: <43043DEA.8.3162548@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <029c01c5a397$6ab84ea0$0202a8c0@default> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:51 PM Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies > On 17 Aug 2005 at 11:50, John Bartow wrote: > > > Blast it all! > > > > OK, I guess I might as well start looking for a different good, free > > firewall! > > > > I use Kerio. The free "for personal use" version does all I need it to. > > > -- > Stuart Same here. Three years, nothing in or out without my knowledge. In combination with AntiVir (www.free-av.com), no problems. ---- Mike Mattys From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 17 22:14:13 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 22:14:13 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies In-Reply-To: <43043DEA.8.3162548@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <200508180314.j7I3EAR24584@databaseadvisors.com> Thanks, I try that. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 4:51 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies On 17 Aug 2005 at 11:50, John Bartow wrote: > Blast it all! > > OK, I guess I might as well start looking for a different good, free > firewall! > I use Kerio. The free "for personal use" version does all I need it to. -- Stuart _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 17 22:17:54 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 22:17:54 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies In-Reply-To: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD221236C@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Message-ID: <200508180317.j7I3HpR25614@databaseadvisors.com> IIRC ZoneAlarm was recently bought by another firm. CheckPoint? -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:14 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies The reason many are using Sygate is because they ditched ZoneAlarm. I guess it may have improved over recent versions but not holding my breath. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2005 2:37 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Zonealarm!!! The professional version has anti virus in it (which I don't use) and it's now got anti-spyware too... Can't have enough of those around... Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 17 August 2005 17:50 To: _DBA-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Blast it all! OK, I guess I might as well start looking for a different good, free firewall! Suggestions? _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This email has been verified as Virus free Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ *** This email any any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Aug 18 05:37:22 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:37:22 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: 17 August 2005: TechWorld: Alert over Acrobat bug Message-ID: <001c01c5a3e0$d54d9380$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> http://www.techworld.com/security/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=4233 <<< The bug went from disclosure to widespread worm attacks within a week, one of the fastest-developing security threats so far, security experts said. >>> Shamil From tinanfields at torchlake.com Thu Aug 18 08:57:37 2005 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:57:37 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] OT - Excel VBA Cell Selection Syntax (x-posted) References: <000001c5a2ac$2072db80$0300a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: <430493D1.9090004@torchlake.com> Hi Dan, I have an Excel workbook used for some automatic calculations for customer jobs, the completed first sheet is printed off as a PDF file, then the first sheet is cleared of all entries. The ranges to be cleared are all over that sheet; there are a few that are contiguous, but several that are non-adjacent. All my ranges are named. What has worked for me is to dim each range separately, and dim a union range - like this: Dim r1 As Range, r2 As Range, r3 As Range, r4 As Range, r5 As Range, r6 As Range, r7 As Range, r8 As Range, allBodyInfo As Range Sheets("EntrySheet").Activate Set r1 = Range("CustName", "CustEmail") Set r2 = Range("Constr", "Condition") Set r3 = Range("RailEdge") Set r4 = Range("RailEdgeExplain") Set r5 = Range("WheelWells") Set r6 = Range("WheelWellsExplain") Set r7 = Range("Entry_A", "Entry_D") Set r8 = Range("Entry_IFH", "Entry_FW") Set r9 = Range("Entry_1B", "Entry_5B") Set r10 = Range("EntryDoor_IFH", "Entry_DDM") Set r11 = Range("Entry_HDWC") Set r12 = Range("Entry_TrkMfr", "Entry_TrkCond") Set allBodyInfo = Union(r1, r2, r3, r4, r5, r6, r7, r8, r9, r10, r11, r12) allBodyInfo.Select Selection.ClearContents Hope this is a helpful to you - I so seldom get to help around here, and I am so often helped. Tina Dan Waters wrote: >Yahoooo! > >That worked like a charm! > >Also - you called this refactoring. I've heard that term before - what does >it mean? > >Dan Waters > > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil >Salakhetdinov >Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 3:53 PM >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT - Excel VBA Cell Selection Syntax (x-posted) > >Dan, > >Both work OK here with MS Excel 2003 when ("Available Items") is active >worksheet. >I think you need to refactor your code to have: > >Dim wks As Excel.Worksheet > Set wks = Worksheets("Available Items") > wks.Select > wks.Range(wks.Cells(2, 1), wks.Cells(123, 2)).Select > >HTH, >Shamil >-- >Web: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "DBA-Tech" ; "AccessD" > >Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 6:47 PM >Subject: [dba-Tech] OT - Excel VBA Cell Selection Syntax (x-posted) > > > > >>Hello to All, >> >>I'm struggling with syntax for the selection of cells when trying to use >> >> >row > > >>and column indexes. Below is an example: >> >>Example A: >> Worksheets("Available Items").Range("A2:B123").Select >> >>Example B: >> Worksheets("Available Items").Range(Cells(2, 1), Cells(123, 2)).Select >> >>Example A works fine, but B does not. Both are from Excel Help files (see >>the Range Property). Once this works I will substitute a variable for the >>123 value. >> >>Thanks! >>Dan Waters >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-Tech mailing list >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From jon at tydda.plus.com Thu Aug 18 10:16:50 2005 From: jon at tydda.plus.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:16:50 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies In-Reply-To: <200508172315.j7HNFsR17861@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200508181516.j7IFGrR10468@databaseadvisors.com> They do a free one... You just don't get the bells and whistles with it - just what it says on the tin. A firewall. Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 18 August 2005 00:16 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies FREE, I need FREE. Is it? -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 12:07 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Zonealarm!!! The professional version has anti virus in it (which I don't use) and it's now got anti-spyware too... Can't have enough of those around... Jon _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This email has been verified as Virus free Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net From bheid at appdevgrp.com Thu Aug 18 10:36:32 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 11:36:32 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C5E6E5@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABEE6E@ADGSERVER> I quite using it years ago and went to Sygate. I used to recommend ZA (the free version) to people that would not know how to use Sygate until after ZA screwed up several systems that I put it on. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 11:17 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies They do a free one... You just don't get the bells and whistles with it - just what it says on the tin. A firewall. Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 18 August 2005 00:16 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies FREE, I need FREE. Is it? -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 12:07 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Symantec to buy Sygate Technologies Zonealarm!!! The professional version has anti virus in it (which I don't use) and it's now got anti-spyware too... Can't have enough of those around... Jon From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Aug 18 11:31:33 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 11:31:33 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] OT - Excel VBA Cell Selection Syntax (x-posted) In-Reply-To: <9909320.1124372852599.JavaMail.root@sniper21> Message-ID: <000001c5a412$4d8fe650$0300a8c0@danwaters> Hi Tina, Thanks for your help! I haven't seen a Union function in Excel before. Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 8:58 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT - Excel VBA Cell Selection Syntax (x-posted) Hi Dan, I have an Excel workbook used for some automatic calculations for customer jobs, the completed first sheet is printed off as a PDF file, then the first sheet is cleared of all entries. The ranges to be cleared are all over that sheet; there are a few that are contiguous, but several that are non-adjacent. All my ranges are named. What has worked for me is to dim each range separately, and dim a union range - like this: Dim r1 As Range, r2 As Range, r3 As Range, r4 As Range, r5 As Range, r6 As Range, r7 As Range, r8 As Range, allBodyInfo As Range Sheets("EntrySheet").Activate Set r1 = Range("CustName", "CustEmail") Set r2 = Range("Constr", "Condition") Set r3 = Range("RailEdge") Set r4 = Range("RailEdgeExplain") Set r5 = Range("WheelWells") Set r6 = Range("WheelWellsExplain") Set r7 = Range("Entry_A", "Entry_D") Set r8 = Range("Entry_IFH", "Entry_FW") Set r9 = Range("Entry_1B", "Entry_5B") Set r10 = Range("EntryDoor_IFH", "Entry_DDM") Set r11 = Range("Entry_HDWC") Set r12 = Range("Entry_TrkMfr", "Entry_TrkCond") Set allBodyInfo = Union(r1, r2, r3, r4, r5, r6, r7, r8, r9, r10, r11, r12) allBodyInfo.Select Selection.ClearContents Hope this is a helpful to you - I so seldom get to help around here, and I am so often helped. Tina Dan Waters wrote: >Yahoooo! > >That worked like a charm! > >Also - you called this refactoring. I've heard that term before - what does >it mean? > >Dan Waters > > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil >Salakhetdinov >Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 3:53 PM >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT - Excel VBA Cell Selection Syntax (x-posted) > >Dan, > >Both work OK here with MS Excel 2003 when ("Available Items") is active >worksheet. >I think you need to refactor your code to have: > >Dim wks As Excel.Worksheet > Set wks = Worksheets("Available Items") > wks.Select > wks.Range(wks.Cells(2, 1), wks.Cells(123, 2)).Select > >HTH, >Shamil >-- >Web: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "DBA-Tech" ; "AccessD" > >Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 6:47 PM >Subject: [dba-Tech] OT - Excel VBA Cell Selection Syntax (x-posted) > > > > >>Hello to All, >> >>I'm struggling with syntax for the selection of cells when trying to use >> >> >row > > >>and column indexes. Below is an example: >> >>Example A: >> Worksheets("Available Items").Range("A2:B123").Select >> >>Example B: >> Worksheets("Available Items").Range(Cells(2, 1), Cells(123, 2)).Select >> >>Example A works fine, but B does not. Both are from Excel Help files (see >>the Range Property). Once this works I will substitute a variable for the >>123 value. >> >>Thanks! >>Dan Waters >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-Tech mailing list >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 18 12:03:02 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:03:02 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] List Word Bookmarks in a Document In-Reply-To: <000001c5a412$4d8fe650$0300a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: <200508181703.j7IH34R05678@databaseadvisors.com> How can I do this? I would like to do it from Access, by opening the template and listing the bookmarks in the Access immediate window. (I am porting code back from ADP to MDB and the code works fine in ADP but has issues in MDB. Trying to figure out what is going wrong.) TIA, Arthur From carbonnb at gmail.com Thu Aug 18 12:45:35 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:45:35 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] List Word Bookmarks in a Document In-Reply-To: <200508181703.j7IH34R05678@databaseadvisors.com> References: <000001c5a412$4d8fe650$0300a8c0@danwaters> <200508181703.j7IH34R05678@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: On 18/08/05, Arthur Fuller wrote: > How can I do this? I would like to do it from Access, by opening the > template and listing the bookmarks in the Access immediate window. Here is a snippet that will do it for you. Just remember to set doc to your document, either by opening it Set doc = Documents.Open("d:/Full/Path/to/your.doc") or creating a new doc based on a template Set doc = Documents.Add("d:/Full/Path/to/your.dot") Dim bmk As Bookmark For Each bmk In doc.Bookmarks Debug.Print bmk.Name Next -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 18 19:32:38 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 20:32:38 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200508190032.j7J0WZR32512@databaseadvisors.com> Fortunately, there is a DB design question herein, else I'd have to post it on the OT list, which is way too noisy for me LOL. I was under the impression that Singapore was a city-state, but I googled a few things and discovered that it is considered a nation. Further, said URL (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sn.html) contains a very interesting set of columns, but I will confine this question to the set titled "Government", which includes: Country Name: Long form: Republic of Singapore Short form: Singapore Government Type: Capital: Singapore Administrative Divisions: Independence: National Holiday: Constitution: Legal System: Suffrage: Executive Branch: Judicial Branch: Legislative Branch: Political Parties and Leaders: Political Pressure Groups and Leaders: International Organization / Participation: Diplomatic Representation from the U.S.: Flag Description: (Fill in the blanks by visiting the URL above.) My questions are: 1. Is Singapore a city, a nation-state or a nation? 2. Are these terms obsolete? 3. Was Singapore declared a nation simply so it could fit conveniently into the database? 4. Are there any other cities to which we might ascribe the descriptor "city-state"? (Or do we fold all such potential candidates into "nations" as this database does with Singapore?) 5. Are there any parts of the nation of Singapore which are not parts of the city Singapore? 6. Prior to 1999, how was Hong Kong classified? (And currently, how is Macao classified?) 7. Prior to reunification, what was the status of Berlin? 8. In post WWII, what was Vienna (c.f. "The Third Man", directed by Carol Reed and starring Orson Welles and Joseph Cotton)? A city-state? A city controlled by four armies? A remnant of pre-war Austrian glory? Opinions and references most welcome! And just to ensure that this stays in the DB realm, until now I have been using the ISO list of nations. Perhaps I should expand my list of columns to include all these other attributes? TIA, Arthur From carbonnb at gmail.com Thu Aug 18 20:10:51 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 21:10:51 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. In-Reply-To: <200508190032.j7J0WZR32512@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200508190032.j7J0WZR32512@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: On 18/08/05, Arthur Fuller wrote: > My questions are: > 4. Are there any other cities to which we might ascribe the descriptor > "city-state"? (Or do we fold all such potential candidates into "nations" as > this database does with Singapore?) Can't help with any other question but Vatican City (Holy See) could probably be classified like Singapore, and is by the CIA Fact Book http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/vt.html -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Aug 18 21:47:56 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 19:47:56 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. References: <200508190032.j7J0WZR32512@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4305485C.4020402@shaw.ca> Well there is Monaco, San Marino maybe Andora , Danzig but that is gone a while ago as city states. Then there are also non-countries countries like the Northern Cyprus Turkish Republic and Trans-Dniester They have a active government but recognized by very few. Looking for a place to hideout ;) Can't be extradited from a place that doesn't exist. Bryan Carbonnell wrote: >On 18/08/05, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > >>My questions are: >> >> > > > >>4. Are there any other cities to which we might ascribe the descriptor >>"city-state"? (Or do we fold all such potential candidates into "nations" as >>this database does with Singapore?) >> >> > >Can't help with any other question but Vatican City (Holy See) could >probably be classified like Singapore, and is by the CIA Fact Book >http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/vt.html > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Thu Aug 18 23:17:59 2005 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 23:17:59 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. In-Reply-To: <200508190032.j7J0WZR32512@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200508190032.j7J0WZR32512@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <43055D77.9030801@earthlink.net> >1. Is Singapore a city, a nation-state or a nation? >2. Are these terms obsolete? ... etc ... Cities, nations, states and the like aren't natural kinds (if indeed there's any such thing), so wouldn't the 'right' meaning be the one that helps solve the problem at hand? Modelling gets interesting where either/or breaks down entirely. A mule is half donkey and half horse. A Sunbeam was a car and a boat. Singapore is a city, a nation and a state. Some humans are anatomically and/or hormonally male and female. We're all sick and well. Canada is ... oh never mind. PB ----- Arthur Fuller wrote: >Fortunately, there is a DB design question herein, else I'd have to post it >on the OT list, which is way too noisy for me LOL. > >I was under the impression that Singapore was a city-state, but I googled a >few things and discovered that it is considered a nation. Further, said URL >(http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sn.html) contains a very >interesting set of columns, but I will confine this question to the set >titled "Government", which includes: > >Country Name: > Long form: Republic of Singapore > Short form: Singapore >Government Type: >Capital: Singapore >Administrative Divisions: >Independence: >National Holiday: >Constitution: >Legal System: >Suffrage: >Executive Branch: >Judicial Branch: >Legislative Branch: >Political Parties and Leaders: >Political Pressure Groups and Leaders: >International Organization / Participation: >Diplomatic Representation from the U.S.: >Flag Description: > >(Fill in the blanks by visiting the URL above.) > >My questions are: > >1. Is Singapore a city, a nation-state or a nation? >2. Are these terms obsolete? >3. Was Singapore declared a nation simply so it could fit conveniently into >the database? >4. Are there any other cities to which we might ascribe the descriptor >"city-state"? (Or do we fold all such potential candidates into "nations" as >this database does with Singapore?) >5. Are there any parts of the nation of Singapore which are not parts of the >city Singapore? >6. Prior to 1999, how was Hong Kong classified? (And currently, how is Macao >classified?) >7. Prior to reunification, what was the status of Berlin? >8. In post WWII, what was Vienna (c.f. "The Third Man", directed by Carol >Reed and starring Orson Welles and Joseph Cotton)? A city-state? A city >controlled by four armies? A remnant of pre-war Austrian glory? > >Opinions and references most welcome! And just to ensure that this stays in >the DB realm, until now I have been using the ISO list of nations. Perhaps I >should expand my list of columns to include all these other attributes? > >TIA, >Arthur > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/75 - Release Date: 8/17/2005 From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Aug 19 00:18:43 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 22:18:43 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. References: <200508190032.j7J0WZR32512@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <43056BB3.8080105@shaw.ca> If you are doing this for mailing look up IPU lists otherwise I would use UN membership for political reasons There are still small UN protectorships and nations and areas not recognized by the UN, The ISO list is about 10 years behind the times. Vienna was divided into US, British, French, and Soviet occupation zones 194555. Berlin was similar forgot the time frame but was considered West German after western Allied Powers occupation zones dissolved. Macau was Dutch colony till 99 as was Hong Kong British colony now Chinese SAR Special Administrative Region. as is Tibet but Chinese piked that in 50's. Hong Kongers were once allowed a British Overseas passport that did not give residence right in Britain. Singapore was part of Malaya British Colony, Three years after Malaya independance majority 75% Chinese in Singapore seperated 1963. I haven't used the term City-State since the Hanseatic League dissolved. Then in Canada you have first nations. A rose is a rose. Oh yes Texas can still secede or split into 4 states within the union. The Turks and Caicos want to become Canada's 11 province. The list is endless. Try nailing Jello to a wall it would be more fruitful. Even the CIA factbook list is missing Nations or wannabes look up Palestine, Chechyna. Arthur Fuller wrote: >Fortunately, there is a DB design question herein, else I'd have to post it >on the OT list, which is way too noisy for me LOL. > >I was under the impression that Singapore was a city-state, but I googled a >few things and discovered that it is considered a nation. Further, said URL >(http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sn.html) contains a very >interesting set of columns, but I will confine this question to the set >titled "Government", which includes: > >Country Name: > Long form: Republic of Singapore > Short form: Singapore >Government Type: >Capital: Singapore >Administrative Divisions: >Independence: >National Holiday: >Constitution: >Legal System: >Suffrage: >Executive Branch: >Judicial Branch: >Legislative Branch: >Political Parties and Leaders: >Political Pressure Groups and Leaders: >International Organization / Participation: >Diplomatic Representation from the U.S.: >Flag Description: > >(Fill in the blanks by visiting the URL above.) > >My questions are: > >1. Is Singapore a city, a nation-state or a nation? >2. Are these terms obsolete? >3. Was Singapore declared a nation simply so it could fit conveniently into >the database? >4. Are there any other cities to which we might ascribe the descriptor >"city-state"? (Or do we fold all such potential candidates into "nations" as >this database does with Singapore?) >5. Are there any parts of the nation of Singapore which are not parts of the >city Singapore? >6. Prior to 1999, how was Hong Kong classified? (And currently, how is Macao >classified?) >7. Prior to reunification, what was the status of Berlin? >8. In post WWII, what was Vienna (c.f. "The Third Man", directed by Carol >Reed and starring Orson Welles and Joseph Cotton)? A city-state? A city >controlled by four armies? A remnant of pre-war Austrian glory? > >Opinions and references most welcome! And just to ensure that this stays in >the DB realm, until now I have been using the ISO list of nations. Perhaps I >should expand my list of columns to include all these other attributes? > >TIA, >Arthur > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri Aug 19 01:48:16 2005 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 07:48:16 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. In-Reply-To: <4305485C.4020402@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <001301c5a489$fa85ba70$5b1c0c54@minster33c3r25> I think these are small nations, not city states. Even Monaco is distinct from Monte Carlo the city, albeit there's not much of Monaco that isn't Monte Carlo. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > MartyConnelly > Sent: 19 August 2005 03:48 > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. > > > Well there is Monaco, San Marino maybe Andora , Danzig but > that is gone > a while ago as city states. > Then there are also non-countries countries like the Northern Cyprus > Turkish Republic and Trans-Dniester > They have a active government but recognized by very few. > Looking for a place to hideout ;) Can't be extradited from a > place that > doesn't exist. > > Bryan Carbonnell wrote: > > >On 18/08/05, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > > > > > >>My questions are: > >> > >> > > > > > > > >>4. Are there any other cities to which we might ascribe the > descriptor > >>"city-state"? (Or do we fold all such potential candidates into > >>"nations" as this database does with Singapore?) > >> > >> > > > >Can't help with any other question but Vatican City (Holy See) could > >probably be classified like Singapore, and is by the CIA Fact Book > >http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/vt.html > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 19 10:54:26 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 11:54:26 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. In-Reply-To: <43056BB3.8080105@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <200508191554.j7JFsUR19542@databaseadvisors.com> Wannabe nations -- great concept! Actually, there are two `movements` in Canada. Kenora wants to separate from Ontario and join Manitoba. Some people in Toronto want to separate from Ontario and become a city-state-province. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: August 19, 2005 1:19 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. If you are doing this for mailing look up IPU lists otherwise I would use UN membership for political reasons There are still small UN protectorships and nations and areas not recognized by the UN, The ISO list is about 10 years behind the times. Vienna was divided into US, British, French, and Soviet occupation zones 194555. Berlin was similar forgot the time frame but was considered West German after western Allied Powers occupation zones dissolved. Macau was Dutch colony till 99 as was Hong Kong British colony now Chinese SAR Special Administrative Region. as is Tibet but Chinese piked that in 50's. Hong Kongers were once allowed a British Overseas passport that did not give residence right in Britain. Singapore was part of Malaya British Colony, Three years after Malaya independance majority 75% Chinese in Singapore seperated 1963. I haven't used the term City-State since the Hanseatic League dissolved. Then in Canada you have first nations. A rose is a rose. Oh yes Texas can still secede or split into 4 states within the union. The Turks and Caicos want to become Canada's 11 province. The list is endless. Try nailing Jello to a wall it would be more fruitful. Even the CIA factbook list is missing Nations or wannabes look up Palestine, Chechyna. Arthur Fuller wrote: >Fortunately, there is a DB design question herein, else I'd have to post it >on the OT list, which is way too noisy for me LOL. > >I was under the impression that Singapore was a city-state, but I googled a >few things and discovered that it is considered a nation. Further, said URL >(http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sn.html) contains a very >interesting set of columns, but I will confine this question to the set >titled "Government", which includes: > >Country Name: > Long form: Republic of Singapore > Short form: Singapore >Government Type: >Capital: Singapore >Administrative Divisions: >Independence: >National Holiday: >Constitution: >Legal System: >Suffrage: >Executive Branch: >Judicial Branch: >Legislative Branch: >Political Parties and Leaders: >Political Pressure Groups and Leaders: >International Organization / Participation: >Diplomatic Representation from the U.S.: >Flag Description: > >(Fill in the blanks by visiting the URL above.) > >My questions are: > >1. Is Singapore a city, a nation-state or a nation? >2. Are these terms obsolete? >3. Was Singapore declared a nation simply so it could fit conveniently into >the database? >4. Are there any other cities to which we might ascribe the descriptor >"city-state"? (Or do we fold all such potential candidates into "nations" as >this database does with Singapore?) >5. Are there any parts of the nation of Singapore which are not parts of the >city Singapore? >6. Prior to 1999, how was Hong Kong classified? (And currently, how is Macao >classified?) >7. Prior to reunification, what was the status of Berlin? >8. In post WWII, what was Vienna (c.f. "The Third Man", directed by Carol >Reed and starring Orson Welles and Joseph Cotton)? A city-state? A city >controlled by four armies? A remnant of pre-war Austrian glory? > >Opinions and references most welcome! And just to ensure that this stays in >the DB realm, until now I have been using the ISO list of nations. Perhaps I >should expand my list of columns to include all these other attributes? > >TIA, >Arthur > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Aug 19 10:57:09 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 11:57:09 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. In-Reply-To: <200508191554.j7JFsUR19542@databaseadvisors.com> References: <43056BB3.8080105@shaw.ca> <200508191554.j7JFsUR19542@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: On 19/08/05, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Wannabe nations -- great concept! Actually, there are two `movements` in > Canada. Kenora wants to separate from Ontario and join Manitoba. Some people Never hear that one before. > in Toronto want to separate from Ontario and become a city-state-province. YGTBSM. Toronto it's own province. What is this world coming to. Ottawa I can understand, but Toronto. Sheesh. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Fri Aug 19 11:23:15 2005 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 11:23:15 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. In-Reply-To: <200508191554.j7JFsUR19542@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200508191554.j7JFsUR19542@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <43060773.3090606@earthlink.net> More 'n two! 40+% of Quebeckers and a third of westerners want to separate. Canada is centrifugal. P. Arthur Fuller wrote: >Wannabe nations -- great concept! Actually, there are two `movements` in >Canada. Kenora wants to separate from Ontario and join Manitoba. Some people >in Toronto want to separate from Ontario and become a city-state-province. > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: August 19, 2005 1:19 AM >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. > >If you are doing this for mailing look up IPU lists otherwise I would >use UN membership for political reasons >There are still small UN protectorships and nations and areas not >recognized by the UN, >The ISO list is about 10 years behind the times. >Vienna was divided into US, British, French, and Soviet occupation zones >194555. >Berlin was similar forgot the time frame but was considered West German >after western Allied Powers occupation zones dissolved. >Macau was Dutch colony till 99 as was Hong Kong British colony now >Chinese SAR Special Administrative Region. >as is Tibet but Chinese piked that in 50's. >Hong Kongers were once allowed a British Overseas passport that did not >give residence right in Britain. > >Singapore was part of Malaya British Colony, Three years after Malaya >independance majority 75% Chinese in Singapore >seperated 1963. >I haven't used the term City-State since the Hanseatic League dissolved. >Then in Canada you have first nations. >A rose is a rose. >Oh yes Texas can still secede or split into 4 states within the union. >The Turks and Caicos want to become Canada's 11 province. >The list is endless. Try nailing Jello to a wall it would be more fruitful. >Even the CIA factbook list is missing Nations or wannabes look up >Palestine, Chechyna. > >Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > >>Fortunately, there is a DB design question herein, else I'd have to post it >>on the OT list, which is way too noisy for me LOL. >> >>I was under the impression that Singapore was a city-state, but I googled a >>few things and discovered that it is considered a nation. Further, said URL >>(http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sn.html) contains a very >>interesting set of columns, but I will confine this question to the set >>titled "Government", which includes: >> >>Country Name: >> Long form: Republic of Singapore >> Short form: Singapore >>Government Type: >>Capital: Singapore >>Administrative Divisions: >>Independence: >>National Holiday: >>Constitution: >>Legal System: >>Suffrage: >>Executive Branch: >>Judicial Branch: >>Legislative Branch: >>Political Parties and Leaders: >>Political Pressure Groups and Leaders: >>International Organization / Participation: >>Diplomatic Representation from the U.S.: >>Flag Description: >> >>(Fill in the blanks by visiting the URL above.) >> >>My questions are: >> >>1. Is Singapore a city, a nation-state or a nation? >>2. Are these terms obsolete? >>3. Was Singapore declared a nation simply so it could fit conveniently into >>the database? >>4. Are there any other cities to which we might ascribe the descriptor >>"city-state"? (Or do we fold all such potential candidates into "nations" >> >> >as > > >>this database does with Singapore?) >>5. Are there any parts of the nation of Singapore which are not parts of >> >> >the > > >>city Singapore? >>6. Prior to 1999, how was Hong Kong classified? (And currently, how is >> >> >Macao > > >>classified?) >>7. Prior to reunification, what was the status of Berlin? >>8. In post WWII, what was Vienna (c.f. "The Third Man", directed by Carol >>Reed and starring Orson Welles and Joseph Cotton)? A city-state? A city >>controlled by four armies? A remnant of pre-war Austrian glory? >> >>Opinions and references most welcome! And just to ensure that this stays in >>the DB realm, until now I have been using the ISO list of nations. Perhaps >> >> >I > > >>should expand my list of columns to include all these other attributes? >> >>TIA, >>Arthur >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-Tech mailing list >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 8/19/2005 From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 19 18:28:57 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 19:28:57 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. In-Reply-To: <43060773.3090606@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200508192328.j7JNStR02299@databaseadvisors.com> And so was Yugoslavia and the USSR. Perhaps more interesting is the case of Quebec. The PQ (separatist party) wants the freedom to separate from Canada, but denies the freedom of the first-nations people within Quebec to separate from the wannabe nation Quebec. More than once it has occurred to me that the federal government should settle all outstanding Quebec-first nations land claims in favour of the first nations -- which would effectively place about 80% of Quebec under first-nations control. That would be that for separatism unless of course the PQ chose to conquer them again. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley Sent: August 19, 2005 12:23 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. More 'n two! 40+% of Quebeckers and a third of westerners want to separate. Canada is centrifugal. P. Arthur Fuller wrote: >Wannabe nations -- great concept! Actually, there are two `movements` in >Canada. Kenora wants to separate from Ontario and join Manitoba. Some people >in Toronto want to separate from Ontario and become a city-state-province. > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: August 19, 2005 1:19 AM >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. > >If you are doing this for mailing look up IPU lists otherwise I would >use UN membership for political reasons >There are still small UN protectorships and nations and areas not >recognized by the UN, >The ISO list is about 10 years behind the times. >Vienna was divided into US, British, French, and Soviet occupation zones >194555. >Berlin was similar forgot the time frame but was considered West German >after western Allied Powers occupation zones dissolved. >Macau was Dutch colony till 99 as was Hong Kong British colony now >Chinese SAR Special Administrative Region. >as is Tibet but Chinese piked that in 50's. >Hong Kongers were once allowed a British Overseas passport that did not >give residence right in Britain. > >Singapore was part of Malaya British Colony, Three years after Malaya >independance majority 75% Chinese in Singapore >seperated 1963. >I haven't used the term City-State since the Hanseatic League dissolved. >Then in Canada you have first nations. >A rose is a rose. >Oh yes Texas can still secede or split into 4 states within the union. >The Turks and Caicos want to become Canada's 11 province. >The list is endless. Try nailing Jello to a wall it would be more fruitful. >Even the CIA factbook list is missing Nations or wannabes look up >Palestine, Chechyna. > >Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > >>Fortunately, there is a DB design question herein, else I'd have to post it >>on the OT list, which is way too noisy for me LOL. >> >>I was under the impression that Singapore was a city-state, but I googled a >>few things and discovered that it is considered a nation. Further, said URL >>(http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sn.html) contains a very >>interesting set of columns, but I will confine this question to the set >>titled "Government", which includes: >> >>Country Name: >> Long form: Republic of Singapore >> Short form: Singapore >>Government Type: >>Capital: Singapore >>Administrative Divisions: >>Independence: >>National Holiday: >>Constitution: >>Legal System: >>Suffrage: >>Executive Branch: >>Judicial Branch: >>Legislative Branch: >>Political Parties and Leaders: >>Political Pressure Groups and Leaders: >>International Organization / Participation: >>Diplomatic Representation from the U.S.: >>Flag Description: >> >>(Fill in the blanks by visiting the URL above.) >> >>My questions are: >> >>1. Is Singapore a city, a nation-state or a nation? >>2. Are these terms obsolete? >>3. Was Singapore declared a nation simply so it could fit conveniently into >>the database? >>4. Are there any other cities to which we might ascribe the descriptor >>"city-state"? (Or do we fold all such potential candidates into "nations" >> >> >as > > >>this database does with Singapore?) >>5. Are there any parts of the nation of Singapore which are not parts of >> >> >the > > >>city Singapore? >>6. Prior to 1999, how was Hong Kong classified? (And currently, how is >> >> >Macao > > >>classified?) >>7. Prior to reunification, what was the status of Berlin? >>8. In post WWII, what was Vienna (c.f. "The Third Man", directed by Carol >>Reed and starring Orson Welles and Joseph Cotton)? A city-state? A city >>controlled by four armies? A remnant of pre-war Austrian glory? >> >>Opinions and references most welcome! And just to ensure that this stays in >>the DB realm, until now I have been using the ISO list of nations. Perhaps >> >> >I > > >>should expand my list of columns to include all these other attributes? >> >>TIA, >>Arthur >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-Tech mailing list >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > From john at winhaven.net Sat Aug 20 10:15:06 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 10:15:06 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. In-Reply-To: <200508192328.j7JNStR02299@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200508201515.j7KFFFR18081@databaseadvisors.com> This is where tabular databases fall apart and Geo databases (GIS) come into play. Define a region of spatial data, link it to a 1-M database and call it many terms. SQL queries using a specific term display results in a spatial area (if that term was defined). Spatial queries using the spatial boundaries display results with all of the terms defined. I would assume the CIA is using Geo-Spatial databases these days and has no great need to define every single way a piece of territory is classified as by all people of the world. If they want to know something they probably call up the map and go from there. When I had worked in GIS we were including mailing functions in the database because at the time the zip codes were changing in our area. We would redraw the zip code boundary on the map and have an update query replace it in the database. To do this manually was a nightmare. John B. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 6:29 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. And so was Yugoslavia and the USSR. Perhaps more interesting is the case of Quebec. The PQ (separatist party) wants the freedom to separate from Canada, but denies the freedom of the first-nations people within Quebec to separate from the wannabe nation Quebec. More than once it has occurred to me that the federal government should settle all outstanding Quebec-first nations land claims in favour of the first nations -- which would effectively place about 80% of Quebec under first-nations control. That would be that for separatism unless of course the PQ chose to conquer them again. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley Sent: August 19, 2005 12:23 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. More 'n two! 40+% of Quebeckers and a third of westerners want to separate. Canada is centrifugal. P. Arthur Fuller wrote: >Wannabe nations -- great concept! Actually, there are two `movements` >in Canada. Kenora wants to separate from Ontario and join Manitoba. >Some people >in Toronto want to separate from Ontario and become a city-state-province. > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >MartyConnelly >Sent: August 19, 2005 1:19 AM >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Nations, City States, mapping same, etc. > >If you are doing this for mailing look up IPU lists otherwise I would >use UN membership for political reasons There are still small UN >protectorships and nations and areas not recognized by the UN, The ISO >list is about 10 years behind the times. >Vienna was divided into US, British, French, and Soviet occupation >zones 194555. >Berlin was similar forgot the time frame but was considered West German >after western Allied Powers occupation zones dissolved. >Macau was Dutch colony till 99 as was Hong Kong British colony now >Chinese SAR Special Administrative Region. >as is Tibet but Chinese piked that in 50's. >Hong Kongers were once allowed a British Overseas passport that did not >give residence right in Britain. > >Singapore was part of Malaya British Colony, Three years after Malaya >independance majority 75% Chinese in Singapore seperated 1963. >I haven't used the term City-State since the Hanseatic League dissolved. >Then in Canada you have first nations. >A rose is a rose. >Oh yes Texas can still secede or split into 4 states within the union. >The Turks and Caicos want to become Canada's 11 province. >The list is endless. Try nailing Jello to a wall it would be more fruitful. >Even the CIA factbook list is missing Nations or wannabes look up >Palestine, Chechyna. > >Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > >>Fortunately, there is a DB design question herein, else I'd have to >>post it >>on the OT list, which is way too noisy for me LOL. >> >>I was under the impression that Singapore was a city-state, but I >>googled a >>few things and discovered that it is considered a nation. Further, >>said URL >>(http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sn.html) contains a very >>interesting set of columns, but I will confine this question to the >>set titled "Government", which includes: >> >>Country Name: >> Long form: Republic of Singapore >> Short form: Singapore >>Government Type: >>Capital: Singapore >>Administrative Divisions: >>Independence: >>National Holiday: >>Constitution: >>Legal System: >>Suffrage: >>Executive Branch: >>Judicial Branch: >>Legislative Branch: >>Political Parties and Leaders: >>Political Pressure Groups and Leaders: >>International Organization / Participation: >>Diplomatic Representation from the U.S.: >>Flag Description: >> >>(Fill in the blanks by visiting the URL above.) >> >>My questions are: >> >>1. Is Singapore a city, a nation-state or a nation? >>2. Are these terms obsolete? >>3. Was Singapore declared a nation simply so it could fit conveniently into >>the database? >>4. Are there any other cities to which we might ascribe the descriptor >>"city-state"? (Or do we fold all such potential candidates into "nations" >> >> >as > > >>this database does with Singapore?) >>5. Are there any parts of the nation of Singapore which are not parts >>of >> >> >the > > >>city Singapore? >>6. Prior to 1999, how was Hong Kong classified? (And currently, how is >> >> >Macao > > >>classified?) >>7. Prior to reunification, what was the status of Berlin? >>8. In post WWII, what was Vienna (c.f. "The Third Man", directed by >>Carol Reed and starring Orson Welles and Joseph Cotton)? A city-state? >>A city controlled by four armies? A remnant of pre-war Austrian glory? >> >>Opinions and references most welcome! And just to ensure that this >>stays in >>the DB realm, until now I have been using the ISO list of nations. >>Perhaps >> >> >I > > >>should expand my list of columns to include all these other attributes? >> >>TIA, >>Arthur >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-Tech mailing list >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 22 11:44:10 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 12:44:10 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Determine current position in Word In-Reply-To: <200508201515.j7KFFFR18081@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200508221644.j7MGiFR03927@databaseadvisors.com> Assuming that I go to a particular bookmark in a Word document, how can I determine the position of the cursor (as expressed in character-count to that point)? I need it because I want to insert a document there... Dim objWord as Word.Application Set objWord = New Word.Application Dim strTemplateFile As String strTemplateFile = TEMPLATEPATH 'a constant defining the template objWord.Documents.Add strTemplateFileo bjWord.ActiveDocument.GoTo What:="Bookmark", Which:="AddionalInformationTable" 'next line is where I need help 'To append to the end of the Word document, you can use this: 'InsertPosition = AppWord.ActiveDocument.Characters.Count - 1 'But I don't want the length of the file, 'I want instead the position of the bookmark InsertPosition = AppWord.ActiveDocument. '... What do I write here? Debug.Print "Insert Position = " & InsertPosition AppWord.ActiveDocument.Range(InsertPosition).InsertFile FileName:="C:\autoexec.bat" 'for example objWord.Visible = True Thanks! Arthur From kathryn at bassett.net Mon Aug 22 20:45:50 2005 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:45:50 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] No Icons Message-ID: <20050822184554.DFE3F878@dm17.mta.everyone.net> Win2000pro sp4 Boot up, and instead of showing desktop with icons etc, it's showing nothing but blue (not blue screen of death, but the blue that is normally background). No start button, no nothing. The only thing I can bring up is control-alt-delete. I do see the graphics that say Windows is booting, etc; it's just that the desktop is non-existant. The Windows button doesn't bring up the start menu either. I finally got into Safe Mode, but the same problem is there. I get a black screen with Safe Mode in all four corners, but no icons, so Start, nothing. I am able to boot into Safe Mode with Command prompt and pretty conversant with dos commands, but I don't know what to check. Everything was working last night at shut down. He (my husband) had only been on long enough to grab his email, and do some eBay surfing. We have all the usual safeguards, McAfee, ZA, IHateSpam, and other stuff. He *does* occasionally visit x rated sites, but since we'd been gone on a trip, he didn't do any of that last night. I just asked and he said it's probably been at least a month since he went on any of the x rated sites. Because of problems in the past (mostly toolbars from those sites), I've gotten him pretty paranoid about doing things that would cause a problem, and it's been almost a year since there has been a problem, so he's learned. And he only gets a few emails from trusted people, with nothing unusual about them. So, I don't see how a virus or anything else could have done anything. The only exception being something that was timed to go off today (know of any?) So, what next to solve this problem? Would any of these help me (keeping in mind I can only get safe mode dos answers): Enable boot logger, enable vga mode, debugging mode? If so, which should I choose, then how do I check the result? -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Aug 23 00:41:25 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 22:41:25 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] No Icons References: <20050822184554.DFE3F878@dm17.mta.everyone.net> Message-ID: <430AB705.6020509@shaw.ca> This week there a couple of worms affecting Win2000 systems can come in through an open port if no firewall Try this version of Stinger from Mcafee, it will fit on an A: drive floppy gets rid of sdbot and zotob worm They update this monthly http://vil.nai.com/vil/stinger/ Kathryn Bassett wrote: >Win2000pro sp4 > >Boot up, and instead of showing desktop with icons etc, it's showing nothing but blue (not blue screen of death, but the blue that is normally background). No start button, no nothing. The only thing I can bring up is control-alt-delete. I do see the graphics that say Windows is booting, etc; it's just that the desktop is non-existant. The Windows button doesn't bring up the start menu either. > >I finally got into Safe Mode, but the same problem is there. I get a black screen with Safe Mode in all four corners, but no icons, so Start, nothing. > >I am able to boot into Safe Mode with Command prompt and pretty conversant with dos commands, but I don't know what to check. > >Everything was working last night at shut down. He (my husband) had only been on long enough to grab his email, and do some eBay surfing. We have all the usual safeguards, McAfee, ZA, IHateSpam, and other stuff. He *does* occasionally visit x rated sites, but since we'd been gone on a trip, he didn't do any of that last night. I just asked and he said it's probably been at least a month since he went on any of the x rated sites. Because of problems in the past (mostly toolbars from those sites), I've gotten him pretty paranoid about doing things that would cause a problem, and it's been almost a year since there has been a problem, so he's learned. > >And he only gets a few emails from trusted people, with nothing unusual about them. So, I don't see how a virus or anything else could have done anything. The only exception being something that was timed to go off today (know of any?) > >So, what next to solve this problem? Would any of these help me (keeping in mind I can only get safe mode dos answers): >Enable boot logger, enable vga mode, debugging mode? If so, which should I choose, then how do I check the result? > >-- >Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) >"Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" >kathryn at bassett.net >http://bassett.net > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From carbonnb at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 11:50:29 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 12:50:29 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Determine current position in Word In-Reply-To: <200508221644.j7MGiFR03927@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200508201515.j7KFFFR18081@databaseadvisors.com> <200508221644.j7MGiFR03927@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: On 22/08/05, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Assuming that I go to a particular bookmark in a Word document, how can I > determine the position of the cursor (as expressed in character-count to > that point)? I need it because I want to insert a document there... > Dim objWord as Word.Application > Set objWord = New Word.Application > Dim strTemplateFile As String > strTemplateFile = TEMPLATEPATH 'a constant defining the template > objWord.Documents.Add strTemplateFileo > bjWord.ActiveDocument.GoTo What:="Bookmark", > Which:="AddionalInformationTable" > 'next line is where I need help > 'To append to the end of the Word document, you can use this: > 'InsertPosition = AppWord.ActiveDocument.Characters.Count - 1 > 'But I don't want the length of the file, > 'I want instead the position of the bookmark > InsertPosition = AppWord.ActiveDocument. '... What do I write here? > Debug.Print "Insert Position = " & InsertPosition > AppWord.ActiveDocument.Range(InsertPosition).InsertFile > FileName:="C:\autoexec.bat" 'for example > objWord.Visible = True To insert a file at a specific you don't need the character position. You can do it like this: dim rng as Range set rng = Selection.Range rng.InsertFile ("C:\autoexec.bat") set rng = Nothing HTH, -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From carbonnb at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 11:53:44 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 12:53:44 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Determine current position in Word In-Reply-To: References: <200508201515.j7KFFFR18081@databaseadvisors.com> <200508221644.j7MGiFR03927@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: On 23/08/05, Bryan Carbonnell wrote: > On 22/08/05, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > Assuming that I go to a particular bookmark in a Word document, how can I > > determine the position of the cursor (as expressed in character-count to > > that point)? I need it because I want to insert a document there... > dim rng as Range > > set rng = Selection.Range > rng.InsertFile ("C:\autoexec.bat") > > set rng = Nothing Another way to do it, if you don't actually want to goto the bookmark, is: Dim doc As Document Dim rng As Range Set doc = ActiveDocument Set rng = doc.Bookmarks("BookmarkName").Range rng.InsertFile ("c:\autoexec.bat") Set rng = Nothing Set doc = Nothing -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From Mike.Tope at dsl.pipex.com Tue Aug 23 18:23:54 2005 From: Mike.Tope at dsl.pipex.com (Mike Tope) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:23:54 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] No Icons References: <20050822184554.DFE3F878@dm17.mta.everyone.net> Message-ID: <015501c5a839$bb609b40$0207a8c0@bill> Do the Ctrl-Alt-Del and choose task manager, then File Run and type in "explorer.exe". That may get you enough to mend the rest. Hope this helps. Mike Tope ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathryn Bassett" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 2:45 AM Subject: [dba-Tech] No Icons Win2000pro sp4 Boot up, and instead of showing desktop with icons etc, it's showing nothing but blue (not blue screen of death, but the blue that is normally background). No start button, no nothing. The only thing I can bring up is control-alt-delete. I do see the graphics that say Windows is booting, etc; it's just that the desktop is non-existant. The Windows button doesn't bring up the start menu either. I finally got into Safe Mode, but the same problem is there. I get a black screen with Safe Mode in all four corners, but no icons, so Start, nothing. I am able to boot into Safe Mode with Command prompt and pretty conversant with dos commands, but I don't know what to check. Everything was working last night at shut down. He (my husband) had only been on long enough to grab his email, and do some eBay surfing. We have all the usual safeguards, McAfee, ZA, IHateSpam, and other stuff. He *does* occasionally visit x rated sites, but since we'd been gone on a trip, he didn't do any of that last night. I just asked and he said it's probably been at least a month since he went on any of the x rated sites. Because of problems in the past (mostly toolbars from those sites), I've gotten him pretty paranoid about doing things that would cause a problem, and it's been almost a year since there has been a problem, so he's learned. And he only gets a few emails from trusted people, with nothing unusual about them. So, I don't see how a virus or anything else could have done anything. The only exception being something that was timed to go off today (know of any?) So, what next to solve this problem? Would any of these help me (keeping in mind I can only get safe mode dos answers): Enable boot logger, enable vga mode, debugging mode? If so, which should I choose, then how do I check the result? -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Tue Aug 23 20:43:46 2005 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:43:46 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] No Icons In-Reply-To: <015501c5a839$bb609b40$0207a8c0@bill> Message-ID: <20050823184352.E615BD40@dm16.mta.everyone.net> Though the Ctrl-Alt-Del dialog comes up, Task Manager is dimmed out. However, I'm going to follow Mike's tip about the sdbot and zotob worms in the morning (gotta leave shortly for a meeting tonight). That sounds like a good probability. Kathryn > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Tope > Sent: 23 Aug 2005 4:24 pm > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] No Icons > > Do the Ctrl-Alt-Del and choose task manager, then File Run > and type in "explorer.exe". That may get you enough to mend the rest. > Hope this helps. > Mike Tope > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kathryn Bassett" > To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" > > Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 2:45 AM > Subject: [dba-Tech] No Icons > > > Win2000pro sp4 > > Boot up, and instead of showing desktop with icons etc, it's > showing nothing > but blue (not blue screen of death, but the blue that is normally > background). No start button, no nothing. The only thing I > can bring up is > control-alt-delete. I do see the graphics that say Windows is > booting, etc; > it's just that the desktop is non-existant. The Windows > button doesn't bring > up the start menu either. > > I finally got into Safe Mode, but the same problem is there. > I get a black > screen with Safe Mode in all four corners, but no icons, so > Start, nothing. > > I am able to boot into Safe Mode with Command prompt and > pretty conversant > with dos commands, but I don't know what to check. > > Everything was working last night at shut down. He (my > husband) had only > been on long enough to grab his email, and do some eBay > surfing. We have all > the usual safeguards, McAfee, ZA, IHateSpam, and other stuff. > He *does* > occasionally visit x rated sites, but since we'd been gone on > a trip, he > didn't do any of that last night. I just asked and he said > it's probably > been at least a month since he went on any of the x rated > sites. Because of > problems in the past (mostly toolbars from those sites), I've > gotten him > pretty paranoid about doing things that would cause a > problem, and it's been > almost a year since there has been a problem, so he's learned. > > And he only gets a few emails from trusted people, with > nothing unusual > about them. So, I don't see how a virus or anything else > could have done > anything. The only exception being something that was timed > to go off today > (know of any?) > > So, what next to solve this problem? Would any of these help > me (keeping in > mind I can only get safe mode dos answers): > Enable boot logger, enable vga mode, debugging mode? If so, > which should I > choose, then how do I check the result? > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mike.Tope at dsl.pipex.com Wed Aug 24 06:33:11 2005 From: Mike.Tope at dsl.pipex.com (Mike Tope) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:33:11 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] No Icons References: <20050823184352.E615BD40@dm16.mta.everyone.net> Message-ID: <003b01c5a89f$9c410360$0207a8c0@bill> I take it the Ctrl-Shift-Esc key combo for the task manager doesn't work either ? Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathryn Bassett" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:43 AM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] No Icons Though the Ctrl-Alt-Del dialog comes up, Task Manager is dimmed out. However, I'm going to follow Mike's tip about the sdbot and zotob worms in the morning (gotta leave shortly for a meeting tonight). That sounds like a good probability. Kathryn > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Tope > Sent: 23 Aug 2005 4:24 pm > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] No Icons > > Do the Ctrl-Alt-Del and choose task manager, then File Run > and type in "explorer.exe". That may get you enough to mend the rest. > Hope this helps. > Mike Tope > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kathryn Bassett" > To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" > > Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 2:45 AM > Subject: [dba-Tech] No Icons > > > Win2000pro sp4 > > Boot up, and instead of showing desktop with icons etc, it's > showing nothing > but blue (not blue screen of death, but the blue that is normally > background). No start button, no nothing. The only thing I > can bring up is > control-alt-delete. I do see the graphics that say Windows is > booting, etc; > it's just that the desktop is non-existant. The Windows > button doesn't bring > up the start menu either. > > I finally got into Safe Mode, but the same problem is there. > I get a black > screen with Safe Mode in all four corners, but no icons, so > Start, nothing. > > I am able to boot into Safe Mode with Command prompt and > pretty conversant > with dos commands, but I don't know what to check. > > Everything was working last night at shut down. He (my > husband) had only > been on long enough to grab his email, and do some eBay > surfing. We have all > the usual safeguards, McAfee, ZA, IHateSpam, and other stuff. > He *does* > occasionally visit x rated sites, but since we'd been gone on > a trip, he > didn't do any of that last night. I just asked and he said > it's probably > been at least a month since he went on any of the x rated > sites. Because of > problems in the past (mostly toolbars from those sites), I've > gotten him > pretty paranoid about doing things that would cause a > problem, and it's been > almost a year since there has been a problem, so he's learned. > > And he only gets a few emails from trusted people, with > nothing unusual > about them. So, I don't see how a virus or anything else > could have done > anything. The only exception being something that was timed > to go off today > (know of any?) > > So, what next to solve this problem? Would any of these help > me (keeping in > mind I can only get safe mode dos answers): > Enable boot logger, enable vga mode, debugging mode? If so, > which should I > choose, then how do I check the result? > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 24 10:44:01 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:44:01 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Determine current position in Word In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200508241544.j7OFi7R06102@databaseadvisors.com> I have tried both methods and I must be doing something wrong because neither method works for me. Here is the exact scenario: I open a template containing numerous bookmarks. I open a recordset and populate the bookmarks with values from the recordset. So far so good. I also write an RTF document containing the rows and columns of the tables that I need (there are two). I know the name of the RTF I just generated. Then I try to apply your code and nothing happens. The tables I must insert occur at a bookmark which is in about the middle of the document. I populate bookmarks before and after said bookmark. All works well. Now, I try your second example code fragment. I had a problem with the line: Set rng = doc.Bookmarks("BookmarkName").Range I changed it to: Set rng = doc.Bookmarks.Item("AdditionalInformationTable") Then it compiled successfully (Access 2003). However, nothing is there in the resulting document where the table should be. All the other bookmarks have been successfully populated, but not the one where I want to plant the table(s). I am obviously doing something wrong. Please tell me what it is. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: August 23, 2005 12:54 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Determine current position in Word On 23/08/05, Bryan Carbonnell wrote: > On 22/08/05, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > Assuming that I go to a particular bookmark in a Word document, how can I > > determine the position of the cursor (as expressed in character-count to > > that point)? I need it because I want to insert a document there... > dim rng as Range > > set rng = Selection.Range > rng.InsertFile ("C:\autoexec.bat") > > set rng = Nothing Another way to do it, if you don't actually want to goto the bookmark, is: Dim doc As Document Dim rng As Range Set doc = ActiveDocument Set rng = doc.Bookmarks("BookmarkName").Range rng.InsertFile ("c:\autoexec.bat") Set rng = Nothing Set doc = Nothing From carbonnb at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 05:48:13 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 06:48:13 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Determine current position in Word In-Reply-To: <200508241544.j7OFi7R06102@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200508241544.j7OFi7R06102@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: On 24/08/05, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Now, I try your second example code fragment. I had a problem with the line: > Set rng = doc.Bookmarks("BookmarkName").Range > I changed it to: > Set rng = doc.Bookmarks.Item("AdditionalInformationTable") > Then it compiled successfully (Access 2003). However, nothing is there in > the resulting document where the table should be. All the other bookmarks > have been successfully populated, but not the one where I want to plant the > table(s). > I am obviously doing something wrong. Please tell me what it is. A couple of things come to mind, keeping in mind I don't have O2K3 to test with. 1) Does your doc variable point to the new document based on the template? 2) The line Set rng = doc.Bookmarks.Item("AdditionalInformationTable") should actually be: Set rng = doc.Bookmarks.Item("AdditionalInformationTable").RANGE 3) Is the document/template protected in way? (Tools|Protect Document...) 4) Try opening the rtf file in Word and then save it as a Word document. It may not like inserting RTF. The first 2 is my best guess as to why it's not working. The other 2 are just WAGs. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 25 07:22:38 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 08:22:38 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Determine current position in Word In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200508251222.j7PCMhR26169@databaseadvisors.com> This reply tipped me off and ended up simplifying my code. Since I already had the document open I did not need the additional declares, and since I was already inside a With Bookmarks block, I pared your suggestion down to this: .Item("AdditionalInformationTable").Range.InsertFile (CurrentRTFFile) And it is working! Lovely! Thanks! But since I live by the theory, If it works, break it, an additional question: How can I provide a folder name for the user when she saves the file? The system cannot predict what the user will choose to call the file, but can predict where she wants to store it. Thanks again, Arthur -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: August 25, 2005 6:48 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Determine current position in Word On 24/08/05, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Now, I try your second example code fragment. I had a problem with the line: > Set rng = doc.Bookmarks("BookmarkName").Range > I changed it to: > Set rng = doc.Bookmarks.Item("AdditionalInformationTable") > Then it compiled successfully (Access 2003). However, nothing is there in > the resulting document where the table should be. All the other bookmarks > have been successfully populated, but not the one where I want to plant the > table(s). > I am obviously doing something wrong. Please tell me what it is. A couple of things come to mind, keeping in mind I don't have O2K3 to test with. 1) Does your doc variable point to the new document based on the template? 2) The line Set rng = doc.Bookmarks.Item("AdditionalInformationTable") should actually be: Set rng = doc.Bookmarks.Item("AdditionalInformationTable").RANGE 3) Is the document/template protected in way? (Tools|Protect Document...) 4) Try opening the rtf file in Word and then save it as a Word document. It may not like inserting RTF. The first 2 is my best guess as to why it's not working. The other 2 are just WAGs. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 25 10:05:29 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 11:05:29 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Self-serving plug In-Reply-To: <200508251222.j7PCMhR26169@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200508251505.j7PF5VR06462@databaseadvisors.com> My first article for Simple-Talk.com just appeared. http://www.simple-talk.com/ is the site. Since they measure hit-counts, if you have a moment please visit same to increase my hit-count :) TIA, Arthur P.S. The article is highly opinionated. Please let us not clutter this list with your objections, if any, but instead direct them to the web site itself. From chizotz at mchsi.com Thu Aug 25 10:46:33 2005 From: chizotz at mchsi.com (chizotz at mchsi.com) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:46:33 +0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Self-serving plug Message-ID: <082520051546.6601.430DE7D90009E817000019C92197912802969B019607080C@mchsi.com> Good article, Arthur, and FWIW I agree with you. Ron > My first article for Simple-Talk.com just appeared. > http://www.simple-talk.com/ is the site. Since they measure hit-counts, if > you have a moment please visit same to increase my hit-count :) > TIA, > Arthur > P.S. > The article is highly opinionated. Please let us not clutter this list with > your objections, if any, but instead direct them to the web site itself. > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tuxedo_man at hotmail.com Thu Aug 25 13:37:49 2005 From: tuxedo_man at hotmail.com (Billy Pang) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 18:37:49 +0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] hidden files? Message-ID: Hello: windows xp home edition one of the basic partitions of my computer reports 1.5GB of used space but when I open up that partition, there are no files there (except for the system folders RECYCLER and System Volume Information; there is nothing in the recycler folder but I can't open the System Volume Information folder). any thoughts? I am thinking of deleting this partition but am having seconds thoughts. thanks in advance Billy From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Aug 25 13:41:27 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 11:41:27 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Self-serving plug References: <200508251505.j7PF5VR06462@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <430E10D7.5090706@shaw.ca> I'll just include this for other's on this list, I don't know if you have done this with your source code. Rather than going for a patent. One other thing to do is file a copyright, you have a copyright automatically but you cannot sue for infringement, unless it is registered This costs $30. You send in roughly first and last 25 pages of source code with blocked out trade secrets. Government processing time is six months. For US details see: Copyright Registration for Computer Programs http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ61.html#deposit However you missed my favourite patent http://tinyurl.com/dvh8 http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6004596.WKU.&OS=PN/6004596&RS=PN/6004596 Arthur Fuller wrote: >My first article for Simple-Talk.com just appeared. >http://www.simple-talk.com/ is the site. Since they measure hit-counts, if >you have a moment please visit same to increase my hit-count :) >TIA, >Arthur >P.S. >The article is highly opinionated. Please let us not clutter this list with >your objections, if any, but instead direct them to the web site itself. > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From john at winhaven.net Thu Aug 25 14:12:30 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:12:30 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] hidden files? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200508251912.j7PJCWR03280@databaseadvisors.com> Probably the room used by System Restore points. I can't recal off the top of my head what you have to do to see those files but it is more than just "view hidden and system files" -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Billy Pang Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:38 PM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-Tech] hidden files? Hello: windows xp home edition one of the basic partitions of my computer reports 1.5GB of used space but when I open up that partition, there are no files there (except for the system folders RECYCLER and System Volume Information; there is nothing in the recycler folder but I can't open the System Volume Information folder). any thoughts? I am thinking of deleting this partition but am having seconds thoughts. thanks in advance Billy _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tuxedo_man at hotmail.com Thu Aug 25 14:34:57 2005 From: tuxedo_man at hotmail.com (Billy Pang) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 19:34:57 +0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] hidden files? In-Reply-To: <200508251912.j7PJCWR03280@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: John: thanks for the tip. I used Cacls to give myself permission to see the system volum information folder and bingo there are all the files that add up to 1.5gb. Billy >From: "John Bartow" >Reply-To: Discussion of Hardware and Software >issues >To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software >issues'" >Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] hidden files? >Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:12:30 -0500 > >Probably the room used by System Restore points. I can't recal off the top >of my head what you have to do to see those files but it is more than just >"view hidden and system files" > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Billy Pang >Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:38 PM >To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [dba-Tech] hidden files? > >Hello: > >windows xp home edition > >one of the basic partitions of my computer reports 1.5GB of used space but >when I open up that partition, there are no files there (except for the >system folders RECYCLER and System Volume Information; there is nothing in >the recycler folder but I can't open the System Volume Information folder). > >any thoughts? I am thinking of deleting this partition but am having >seconds thoughts. > >thanks in advance > >Billy > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 25 14:35:36 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:35:36 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Self-serving plug In-Reply-To: <082520051546.6601.430DE7D90009E817000019C92197912802969B019607080C@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <200508251935.j7PJZeR09286@databaseadvisors.com> Thx! -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of chizotz at mchsi.com Sent: August 25, 2005 11:47 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Self-serving plug Good article, Arthur, and FWIW I agree with you. Ron From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Aug 25 15:10:22 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 13:10:22 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] hidden files? References: <200508251912.j7PJCWR03280@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <430E25AE.6060103@shaw.ca> These are probably ADS files Alternate Data Streams. NTFS files contain one primary stream and, optionally, one or more alternate data streams These streams are great for hiding viruses. Temporary ones are created by some ADO methods. I am not sure but I think restore files are ADS files Simple viewer with C Source code http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/Streams.html A more user friendly ADS viewer with a white paper http://www.crucialsecurity.com/products/index.html John Bartow wrote: >Probably the room used by System Restore points. I can't recal off the top >of my head what you have to do to see those files but it is more than just >"view hidden and system files" > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Billy Pang >Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:38 PM >To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [dba-Tech] hidden files? > >Hello: > >windows xp home edition > >one of the basic partitions of my computer reports 1.5GB of used space but >when I open up that partition, there are no files there (except for the >system folders RECYCLER and System Volume Information; there is nothing in >the recycler folder but I can't open the System Volume Information folder). > >any thoughts? I am thinking of deleting this partition but am having >seconds thoughts. > >thanks in advance > >Billy > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From john at winhaven.net Thu Aug 25 17:35:21 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:35:21 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] hidden files? In-Reply-To: <430E25AE.6060103@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <200508252235.j7PMZNR23792@databaseadvisors.com> Thanks Marty, Interesting - ActiveSync for (PocketPCs) uses an ADS. Crucial security sure has a dumb form to fill in! I had to remove all formatting from the phone numbers and add a fake fax number. I had to guess at the formatting part :o( -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly These are probably ADS files Alternate Data Streams. NTFS files contain one primary stream and, optionally, one or more alternate data streams These streams are great for hiding viruses. Temporary ones are created by some ADO methods. I am not sure but I think restore files are ADS files Simple viewer with C Source code http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/Streams.html A more user friendly ADS viewer with a white paper http://www.crucialsecurity.com/products/index.html From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 25 19:04:08 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 20:04:08 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <200508251935.j7PJZeR09286@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200508260004.j7Q046R12286@databaseadvisors.com> I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: there are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the other two are a dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. I invite you to select a door. You choose any one of the three: call it x I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead catfish. Now, would you like to stick with your original choice or switch to the other door? Does it matter? If not, why not? If so, why so? There is a clear answer to this problem. Who is going to be the first to come up with it? Arthur From tuxedo_man at hotmail.com Thu Aug 25 19:42:11 2005 From: tuxedo_man at hotmail.com (Billy Pang) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:42:11 +0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <200508260004.j7Q046R12286@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: stick with the original choice? if you were wrong in the first place, they would have called you on it. >From: "Arthur Fuller" >Reply-To: Discussion of Hardware and Software >issues >To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software >issues'" >Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 20:04:08 -0400 > >I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: >there >are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the other two are a >dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. I invite you to select a >door. You choose any one of the three: call it x I open another door, and >say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead catfish. Now, would >you like to stick with your original choice or switch to the other door? >Does it matter? If not, why not? If so, why so? >There is a clear answer to this problem. Who is going to be the first to >come up with it? >Arthur > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From drboz at pacbell.net Thu Aug 25 19:50:07 2005 From: drboz at pacbell.net (Don Bozarth) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:50:07 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem References: <200508260004.j7Q046R12286@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <001801c5a9d8$1b92e910$6b01a8c0@don> Stick with your original choice. By revealing "y" as a dead catfish, your odds just improved from one out of 3 to one out of 2. Don B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 5:04 PM Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: there > are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the other two are a > dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. I invite you to select a > door. You choose any one of the three: call it x I open another door, and > say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead catfish. Now, would > you like to stick with your original choice or switch to the other door? > Does it matter? If not, why not? If so, why so? > There is a clear answer to this problem. Who is going to be the first to > come up with it? > Arthur > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 25 21:20:15 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:20:15 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <200508260004.j7Q046R12286@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200508251935.j7PJZeR09286@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <430F08FF.20284.827F749@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 25 Aug 2005 at 20:04, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: there > are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the other two are a > dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. I invite you to select a > door. You choose any one of the three: call it x I open another door, and > say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead catfish. Now, would > you like to stick with your original choice or switch to the other door? > Does it matter? If not, why not? If so, why so? > There is a clear answer to this problem. Who is going to be the first to > come up with it? > Arthur > > Ah, the good old Monty Hall puzzle. Strictly speaking, you need to qualify it by saying "I open another door which I know contains a dead fish and show you the contents" If you could open the money door by accident, it is a different situation. Anyhoo, the answers is: Yes it matters, you should swap. I won't give the reason now 'cause it's a spoiler. I know some peole will not agree with me and will go to great lengths to explain why I am wrong :-) -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 25 21:21:41 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:21:41 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <001801c5a9d8$1b92e910$6b01a8c0@don> Message-ID: <430F0955.27635.8294574@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 25 Aug 2005 at 17:50, Don Bozarth wrote: > Stick with your original choice. By revealing "y" as a dead catfish, your > odds just improved from one out of 3 to one out of 2. > Bzzzt! Sticking doesn't change the odds. Next? -- Stuart From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 25 21:36:31 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 22:36:31 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <430F0955.27635.8294574@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <200508260236.j7Q2aTR18026@databaseadvisors.com> You are the man with the plan, Stuart! What I love about this puzzle is that the more people know about statistics, the less likely they are to get the right answer. You got it! Now let us leave the others to determine why this is correct, LOL. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: August 25, 2005 10:22 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem On 25 Aug 2005 at 17:50, Don Bozarth wrote: > Stick with your original choice. By revealing "y" as a dead catfish, your > odds just improved from one out of 3 to one out of 2. > From tuxedo_man at hotmail.com Thu Aug 25 21:43:21 2005 From: tuxedo_man at hotmail.com (Billy Pang) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 02:43:21 +0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <430F08FF.20284.827F749@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: i just looked up the answer. the accepted answer is that you should swap. the solution is easier to grasp if behind the other non-winning doors are animals of the same kind. swapping my answer, Billy >From: "Stuart McLachlan" >Reply-To: Discussion of Hardware and Software >issues >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:20:15 +1000 > >On 25 Aug 2005 at 20:04, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: >there > > are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the other two >are a > > dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. I invite you to select a > > door. You choose any one of the three: call it x I open another door, >and > > say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead catfish. Now, >would > > you like to stick with your original choice or switch to the other door? > > Does it matter? If not, why not? If so, why so? > > There is a clear answer to this problem. Who is going to be the first to > > come up with it? > > Arthur > > > > > >Ah, the good old Monty Hall puzzle. > >Strictly speaking, you need to qualify it by saying "I open another door >which I know contains a dead fish and show you the contents" If you could >open the money door by accident, it is a different situation. > >Anyhoo, the answers is: >Yes it matters, you should swap. > >I won't give the reason now 'cause it's a spoiler. I know some peole >will not agree with me and will go to great lengths to explain why I am >wrong :-) > > > > > > >-- >Stuart > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Aug 25 21:44:29 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 22:44:29 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <430F08FF.20284.827F749@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <020401c5a9e8$1482cb30$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> LOL, but the answer is screwy. Now take the example where TWO people are choosing doors simultaneously. The third door is shown to NOT contain the prize. Both people should swap by the logic of the puzzle, but one of them is still going to lose and the other win. Each person (door) has a 50% probability of winning. Which one will win? There is no way to predict the answer, each person has a 50% probability of winning the prize. The logic SOUNDS good but is screwy. Each door has a 1 in 3 chance of being a winner. Eliminate one door and each door has a 1 in 2 chance of being a winner. It matters not whether the third door is eliminated during the game or before the game starts. And Arthur, while your door just increased from 1 in 3 to 1 in 2, so did the other door. It matters not whether you switch or whether you stay, you have a 50/50 chance of winning. There is no particular reason to switch, but you don't affect your odds in the slightest by switching. Pick a door (of the two remaining), any door, and you have a 50/50 chance. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:20 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem On 25 Aug 2005 at 20:04, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: > there are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the > other two are a dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. I > invite you to select a door. You choose any one of the three: call it > x I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would > have won a dead catfish. Now, would you like to stick with your > original choice or switch to the other door? Does it matter? If not, > why not? If so, why so? There is a clear answer to this problem. Who > is going to be the first to come up with it? Arthur > > Ah, the good old Monty Hall puzzle. Strictly speaking, you need to qualify it by saying "I open another door which I know contains a dead fish and show you the contents" If you could open the money door by accident, it is a different situation. Anyhoo, the answers is: Yes it matters, you should swap. I won't give the reason now 'cause it's a spoiler. I know some peole will not agree with me and will go to great lengths to explain why I am wrong :-) -- Stuart _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Thu Aug 25 21:52:38 2005 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 19:52:38 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <200508260004.j7Q046R12286@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <20050825195239.F077D64A@dm16.mta.everyone.net> I know the answer is to stick with original choice, but I can't remember the logistics of why. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Arthur Fuller > Sent: 25 Aug 2005 5:04 pm > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is > the deal: there are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 > million. Behind the other two are a dead catfish and a dead > pickerel respectively. I invite you to select a door. You > choose any one of the three: call it x I open another door, > and say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead > catfish. Now, would you like to stick with your original > choice or switch to the other door? > Does it matter? If not, why not? If so, why so? > There is a clear answer to this problem. Who is going to be > the first to come up with it? > Arthur > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Thu Aug 25 22:03:18 2005 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 22:03:18 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <020401c5a9e8$1482cb30$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> References: <020401c5a9e8$1482cb30$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <430E8676.5050107@earthlink.net> John >And Arthur, while your door just increased from 1 in 3 to 1 in 2, so did the >other door. It matters not whether you switch or whether you stay, you have >a 50/50 chance of winning. There is no particular reason to switch, but you >don't affect your odds in the slightest by switching. Pick a door (of the >two remaining), any door, and you have a 50/50 chance. You can test your theory empirically. Visit http://people.hofstra.edu/staff/steven_r_costenoble/MontyHall/MontyHall.html. Do a dozen trials of holding your choice, and a dozen of switching it. Kep a count of the number of wins with each strategy. That gives you a 2x2 table. Now visit http://www.unc.edu/~preacher/fisher/fisher.htm, plug in your numbers in the little table near the bottom, and click 'Calculate'. The 'this tail' number is the probability that your numbers could have come about by chance from a scenario where the probabilities were 50-50. Or if you prefer, you can keep your theory :-) . PB ----- John W. Colby wrote: >LOL, but the answer is screwy. Now take the example where TWO people are >choosing doors simultaneously. The third door is shown to NOT contain the >prize. Both people should swap by the logic of the puzzle, but one of them >is still going to lose and the other win. Each person (door) has a 50% >probability of winning. Which one will win? There is no way to predict the >answer, each person has a 50% probability of winning the prize. > >The logic SOUNDS good but is screwy. Each door has a 1 in 3 chance of being >a winner. Eliminate one door and each door has a 1 in 2 chance of being a >winner. It matters not whether the third door is eliminated during the game >or before the game starts. > >And Arthur, while your door just increased from 1 in 3 to 1 in 2, so did the >other door. It matters not whether you switch or whether you stay, you have >a 50/50 chance of winning. There is no particular reason to switch, but you >don't affect your odds in the slightest by switching. Pick a door (of the >two remaining), any door, and you have a 50/50 chance. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:20 PM >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > >On 25 Aug 2005 at 20:04, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > >>I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: >>there are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the >>other two are a dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. I >>invite you to select a door. You choose any one of the three: call it >>x I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would >>have won a dead catfish. Now, would you like to stick with your >>original choice or switch to the other door? Does it matter? If not, >>why not? If so, why so? There is a clear answer to this problem. Who >>is going to be the first to come up with it? Arthur >> >> >> >> > >Ah, the good old Monty Hall puzzle. > >Strictly speaking, you need to qualify it by saying "I open another door >which I know contains a dead fish and show you the contents" If you could >open the money door by accident, it is a different situation. > >Anyhoo, the answers is: >Yes it matters, you should swap. > >I won't give the reason now 'cause it's a spoiler. I know some peole >will not agree with me and will go to great lengths to explain why I am >wrong :-) > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005 From tuxedo_man at hotmail.com Thu Aug 25 22:27:29 2005 From: tuxedo_man at hotmail.com (Billy Pang) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:27:29 +0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <430E8676.5050107@earthlink.net> Message-ID: the way it was explained to me was that if you do swap doors, you double your chances (on paper) of winning the grand prize. this is based on the assumption that no matter what is behind the original door you choose, the game show host WILL ALWAYS pick out a non-winning door to tempt you to change your mind. if you keep this assumption, given the fact that the host will never reveal the winning door, he is telling you which door does not have the prize and this knowledge is worked into your probability of picking the winning door. that is, there are only three possible scenarios, a) if you pick pickerel, he shows you catfish, if you swap, you win b) if you pick catfish, he shows you pickerel, if you swap, you win c) if you pick winning door, he shows you catfish or pickerel, if you swap, you lose given this, the "swapping doors" strategy wins 2 out of 3 times. therefore, if you don't know what is behind the door you first pick, your best strategy is to wait for your host to give you a hint and you pick the other door. Billy >From: Peter Brawley >Reply-To: Discussion of Hardware and Software >issues >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 22:03:18 -0500 > >John > > >And Arthur, while your door just increased from 1 in 3 to 1 in 2, so did >the > >other door. It matters not whether you switch or whether you stay, you >have > >a 50/50 chance of winning. There is no particular reason to switch, but >you > >don't affect your odds in the slightest by switching. Pick a door (of the > >two remaining), any door, and you have a 50/50 chance. > >You can test your theory empirically. Visit >http://people.hofstra.edu/staff/steven_r_costenoble/MontyHall/MontyHall.html. >Do a dozen trials of holding your choice, and a dozen of switching it. Kep >a count of the number of wins with each strategy. That gives you a 2x2 >table. Now visit http://www.unc.edu/~preacher/fisher/fisher.htm, plug in >your numbers in the little table near the bottom, and click 'Calculate'. >The 'this tail' number is the probability that your numbers could have come >about by chance from a scenario where the probabilities were 50-50. > >Or if you prefer, you can keep your theory :-) . > >PB > >----- > >John W. Colby wrote: > >>LOL, but the answer is screwy. Now take the example where TWO people are >>choosing doors simultaneously. The third door is shown to NOT contain the >>prize. Both people should swap by the logic of the puzzle, but one of >>them >>is still going to lose and the other win. Each person (door) has a 50% >>probability of winning. Which one will win? There is no way to predict >>the >>answer, each person has a 50% probability of winning the prize. >> >>The logic SOUNDS good but is screwy. Each door has a 1 in 3 chance of >>being >>a winner. Eliminate one door and each door has a 1 in 2 chance of being a >>winner. It matters not whether the third door is eliminated during the >>game >>or before the game starts. >> >>And Arthur, while your door just increased from 1 in 3 to 1 in 2, so did >>the >>other door. It matters not whether you switch or whether you stay, you >>have >>a 50/50 chance of winning. There is no particular reason to switch, but >>you >>don't affect your odds in the slightest by switching. Pick a door (of the >>two remaining), any door, and you have a 50/50 chance. >> >>John W. Colby >>www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >>Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >>http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>McLachlan >>Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:20 PM >>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >> >> >>On 25 Aug 2005 at 20:04, Arthur Fuller wrote: >> >> >> >>>I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: >>>there are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the other >>>two are a dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. I invite you to >>>select a door. You choose any one of the three: call it x I open another >>>door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead >>>catfish. Now, would you like to stick with your original choice or switch >>>to the other door? Does it matter? If not, why not? If so, why so? There >>>is a clear answer to this problem. Who is going to be the first to come >>>up with it? Arthur >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>Ah, the good old Monty Hall puzzle. >> >>Strictly speaking, you need to qualify it by saying "I open another door >>which I know contains a dead fish and show you the contents" If you could >>open the money door by accident, it is a different situation. >> >>Anyhoo, the answers is: >>Yes it matters, you should swap. >> >>I won't give the reason now 'cause it's a spoiler. I know some peole >>will not agree with me and will go to great lengths to explain why I am >>wrong :-) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005 >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 25 22:38:10 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 13:38:10 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <20050825195239.F077D64A@dm16.mta.everyone.net> References: <200508260004.j7Q046R12286@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <430F1B42.8825.86F4B5B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 25 Aug 2005 at 19:52, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > I know the answer is to stick with original choice, but I can't remember the logistics of why. > > -- Bzzzt! Next? -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 25 22:38:10 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 13:38:10 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <020401c5a9e8$1482cb30$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> References: <430F08FF.20284.827F749@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <430F1B42.24627.86F4AFD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 25 Aug 2005 at 22:44, John W. Colby wrote: > The logic SOUNDS good but is screwy. Each door has a 1 in 3 chance of being > a winner. Eliminate one door and each door has a 1 in 2 chance of being a > winner. It matters not whether the third door is eliminated during the game > or before the game starts. > > And Arthur, while your door just increased from 1 in 3 to 1 in 2, so did the > other door. It matters not whether you switch or whether you stay, you have > a 50/50 chance of winning. There is no particular reason to switch, but you > don't affect your odds in the slightest by switching. Pick a door (of the > two remaining), any door, and you have a 50/50 chance. > Bzzt! Next? -- Stuart From kathryn at bassett.net Thu Aug 25 22:52:12 2005 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 20:52:12 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Task Manager locked Message-ID: <20050825205213.F077ECA1@dm18.mta.everyone.net> In the other thread about my husband's missing desktop, I'm not having any luck, even with a paid call with McAfee. I'm not finished with them, but meanwhile I thought I'd address another issue. (Windows 2000 pro). When I cnt-alt-del, I get the usual dialog box, but the Task Manager is dimmed. If I cnt-shift-esc, I get a message saying that the Task Manager has been locked by Administrator. However, I didn't lock it, so whatever messed with my desktop must have done it. Only one user, the admin, and no password. So, how do I unlock it? I can only boot into safe mode with command prompt. From there I can run Explorer. So what do I look for in Explorer to unlock the Task Manager, or what command in dos mode do I run to do it? -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Thu Aug 25 23:18:29 2005 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:18:29 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Task Manager locked In-Reply-To: <20050825205213.F077ECA1@dm18.mta.everyone.net> References: <20050825205213.F077ECA1@dm18.mta.everyone.net> Message-ID: <430E9815.30107@earthlink.net> kathryn, >I can only boot into safe mode with command prompt. >From there I can run Explorer. So what do I look for >in Explorer to unlock the Task Manager, or what command >in dos mode do I run to do it? It sure sounds like a virus. One one machine of ours, which had been "protected" by McAfee, I had to boot from a CD, remove McAfee, install another antivirus, and scan the machine six times before it was clean. There's a helpful page at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/security/expert/russel_infectedpc.mspx. Good luck. PB Kathryn Bassett wrote: >In the other thread about my husband's missing desktop, I'm not having any luck, even with a paid call with McAfee. I'm not finished with them, but meanwhile I thought I'd address another issue. (Windows 2000 pro). When I cnt-alt-del, I get the usual dialog box, but the Task Manager is dimmed. If I cnt-shift-esc, I get a message saying that the Task Manager has been locked by Administrator. However, I didn't lock it, so whatever messed with my desktop must have done it. Only one user, the admin, and no password. > >So, how do I unlock it? I can only boot into safe mode with command prompt. From there I can run Explorer. So what do I look for in Explorer to unlock the Task Manager, or what command in dos mode do I run to do it? > >-- >Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) >"Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" >kathryn at bassett.net >http://bassett.net > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005 From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Aug 25 23:23:08 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 21:23:08 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem References: <200508260004.j7Q046R12286@databaseadvisors.com> <430F1B42.8825.86F4B5B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <430E992C.1010803@shaw.ca> Well this is a microsoft interview question You have three barrels labelled oranges, apples and mixed fruit The barrels have all been mislabelled, Someone pulls out a fruit from a barrel and tells you it is an apple your job is to relabel the barrels correctly. Stuart McLachlan wrote: >On 25 Aug 2005 at 19:52, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > > > >>I know the answer is to stick with original choice, but I can't remember the logistics of why. >> >>-- >> >> >Bzzzt! > >Next? > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Aug 25 23:30:18 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 21:30:18 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Task Manager locked References: <20050825205213.F077ECA1@dm18.mta.everyone.net> Message-ID: <430E9ADA.5080803@shaw.ca> Did you try Mcafee Stinger even so Tasklist.exe and taskmgr.exe out of c:\windows\system32 should work depending on home or xp pro version Kathryn Bassett wrote: >In the other thread about my husband's missing desktop, I'm not having any luck, even with a paid call with McAfee. I'm not finished with them, but meanwhile I thought I'd address another issue. (Windows 2000 pro). When I cnt-alt-del, I get the usual dialog box, but the Task Manager is dimmed. If I cnt-shift-esc, I get a message saying that the Task Manager has been locked by Administrator. However, I didn't lock it, so whatever messed with my desktop must have done it. Only one user, the admin, and no password. > >So, how do I unlock it? I can only boot into safe mode with command prompt. From there I can run Explorer. So what do I look for in Explorer to unlock the Task Manager, or what command in dos mode do I run to do it? > >-- >Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) >"Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" >kathryn at bassett.net >http://bassett.net > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From darsant at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 00:22:23 2005 From: darsant at gmail.com (Josh McFarlane) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:22:23 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <430E992C.1010803@shaw.ca> References: <200508260004.j7Q046R12286@databaseadvisors.com> <430F1B42.8825.86F4B5B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <430E992C.1010803@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <53c8e05a0508252222458b8fc2@mail.gmail.com> Well, that one is a little bit more simple. Barrel A, Barrel B, and Barrel C Fruit - Apples -- Oranges If he pulls Apples out of Barrel A, you apply Apples to Barrel A, Oranges to Barrel B and Fruit to Barrel C, just a matter of making sure the same label doesn't end up on the same spot. In the case of the game show problem however, you start out with 3 choices to resolve the situation: 2 Losses 1 Win No matter what you choose, the situation is simplified to two choices: 1 Loss 1 Win The other properties of the choice don't change, as there will always be 1 win and 1 loss. Nothing says either or will be more probable than the other, so you should end up with a 50/50 chance. On 8/25/05, MartyConnelly wrote: > Well this is a microsoft interview question > You have three barrels labelled oranges, apples and mixed fruit > The barrels have all been mislabelled, > Someone pulls out a fruit from a barrel and tells you it is an apple > your job is to relabel the barrels correctly. > > Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > >On 25 Aug 2005 at 19:52, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > > > > > > > >>I know the answer is to stick with original choice, but I can't remember the logistics of why. > >> > >>-- > >> > >> > >Bzzzt! > > > >Next? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Darsant Silverstring "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." -Albert Einstein From kathryn at bassett.net Fri Aug 26 00:32:34 2005 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 22:32:34 -0700 Subject: Solved RE: [dba-Tech] Task Manager locked In-Reply-To: <430E9ADA.5080803@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <20050825223235.F077E0DC@dm17.mta.everyone.net> Yep, the Stinger didn't do it. They had me download the SuperDat from http://www.networkassociates.com/us/downloads/updates/default.asp and assisted me in getting that running the the safe mode command prompt. Caught a ton of stuff in the cache, but still didn't give me back my desktop. However, I just found out how to unlock the task manager http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-1035-1054840-2.html So now I can boot to "normal", though without the icons still, and bring up the task manager to run programs. Back to solving that part. Dump this locked task manage thread anyway. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > MartyConnelly > Sent: 25 Aug 2005 9:30 pm > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Task Manager locked > > Did you try Mcafee Stinger > even so > Tasklist.exe and taskmgr.exe out of c:\windows\system32 > should work > depending on home or xp pro version > > > > Kathryn Bassett wrote: > > >In the other thread about my husband's missing desktop, I'm > not having any luck, even with a paid call with McAfee. I'm > not finished with them, but meanwhile I thought I'd address > another issue. (Windows 2000 pro). When I cnt-alt-del, I get > the usual dialog box, but the Task Manager is dimmed. If I > cnt-shift-esc, I get a message saying that the Task Manager > has been locked by Administrator. However, I didn't lock it, > so whatever messed with my desktop must have done it. Only > one user, the admin, and no password. > > > >So, how do I unlock it? I can only boot into safe mode with > command prompt. From there I can run Explorer. So what do I > look for in Explorer to unlock the Task Manager, or what > command in dos mode do I run to do it? > > > >-- > >Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my > bag" "GH is my > >soap" > >kathryn at bassett.net > >http://bassett.net > > > >_______________________________________________ > >dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Fri Aug 26 00:53:45 2005 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 07:53:45 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF1B5E3C@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Ha, seen this a couple of years ago but with dead row prisoners... I written an VBA program to take this statistical weirdness to the test AND IT IS TRUE I try if I can find the program... -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Josh McFarlane Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:22 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem Well, that one is a little bit more simple. Barrel A, Barrel B, and Barrel C Fruit - Apples -- Oranges If he pulls Apples out of Barrel A, you apply Apples to Barrel A, Oranges to Barrel B and Fruit to Barrel C, just a matter of making sure the same label doesn't end up on the same spot. In the case of the game show problem however, you start out with 3 choices to resolve the situation: 2 Losses 1 Win No matter what you choose, the situation is simplified to two choices: 1 Loss 1 Win The other properties of the choice don't change, as there will always be 1 win and 1 loss. Nothing says either or will be more probable than the other, so you should end up with a 50/50 chance. On 8/25/05, MartyConnelly wrote: > Well this is a microsoft interview question You have three barrels > labelled oranges, apples and mixed fruit The barrels have all been > mislabelled, Someone pulls out a fruit from a barrel and tells you it > is an apple your job is to relabel the barrels correctly. > > Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > >On 25 Aug 2005 at 19:52, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > > > > > > > >>I know the answer is to stick with original choice, but I can't remember the logistics of why. > >> > >>-- > >> > >> > >Bzzzt! > > > >Next? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Darsant Silverstring "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." -Albert Einstein _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Fri Aug 26 01:06:05 2005 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:06:05 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF1B5E3D@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Ok found it. Its called the Monty Hall rule. I programmed it in the boxes version (there are many version of this rule). My code was programmed in VB6 but its pretty simple and will probably work straigt away in VBA to. Run the MontyHall sub adding the number of iterations. As usual statistics are more accurate with larger numbers. But you alreay see it with 10 iterations. Here's the code. ###BEGIN OF CODE### Sub MontyHall(Iterations As Long) Dim Success As Integer Dim Boxes(3) As Boolean Dim Choosen As Integer Dim Unvealed As Integer Dim NoChangeSuccess As Long Dim ChangeSuccess As Long Dim NoChangeTotal As Long Dim ChangeTotal As Long Dim NotChoosen As Integer Dim I As Integer, Iteration As Long For Iteration = 1 To Iterations NoChangeSuccess = 0 ChangeSuccess = 0 For I = 1 To 100 Erase Boxes 'Set money in box Randomize Boxes(Int((3 * Rnd) + 1)) = True 'I'm Choosing a box Randomize Choosen = Int((3 * Rnd) + 1) 'Unveale 1 empty box Unvealed = Int((3 * Rnd) + 1) Do Until Unvealed <> Choosen Randomize Unvealed = Int((3 * Rnd) + 1) Loop If Boxes(Unvealed) = True Then Unvealed = 6 - Choosen - Unvealed 'Check for values NotChoosen = 6 - Choosen - Unvealed If Boxes(Choosen) = True Then NoChangeSuccess = NoChangeSuccess + 1 If Boxes(NotChoosen) = True Then ChangeSuccess = ChangeSuccess + 1 Next I 'Remove Remark on folowing line for detailed results 'Debug.Print "Iteration:" & Format(Iteration, "00#") & " Result Choosen Box:" & NoChangeSuccess & " Other box:" & ChangeSuccess 'Set totals NoChangeTotal = NoChangeTotal + NoChangeSuccess ChangeTotal = ChangeTotal + ChangeSuccess Next Iteration Debug.Print "Iterationtotals:" & " Result Choosen Box:" & NoChangeTotal / Iterations & "% Other box:" & ChangeTotal / Iterations & "%" End Sub ###END OF CODE### -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:54 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem Ha, seen this a couple of years ago but with dead row prisoners... I written an VBA program to take this statistical weirdness to the test AND IT IS TRUE I try if I can find the program... -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Josh McFarlane Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:22 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem Well, that one is a little bit more simple. Barrel A, Barrel B, and Barrel C Fruit - Apples -- Oranges If he pulls Apples out of Barrel A, you apply Apples to Barrel A, Oranges to Barrel B and Fruit to Barrel C, just a matter of making sure the same label doesn't end up on the same spot. In the case of the game show problem however, you start out with 3 choices to resolve the situation: 2 Losses 1 Win No matter what you choose, the situation is simplified to two choices: 1 Loss 1 Win The other properties of the choice don't change, as there will always be 1 win and 1 loss. Nothing says either or will be more probable than the other, so you should end up with a 50/50 chance. On 8/25/05, MartyConnelly wrote: > Well this is a microsoft interview question You have three barrels > labelled oranges, apples and mixed fruit The barrels have all been > mislabelled, Someone pulls out a fruit from a barrel and tells you it > is an apple your job is to relabel the barrels correctly. > > Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > >On 25 Aug 2005 at 19:52, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > > > > > > > >>I know the answer is to stick with original choice, but I can't remember the logistics of why. > >> > >>-- > >> > >> > >Bzzzt! > > > >Next? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Darsant Silverstring "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." -Albert Einstein _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tuxedo_man at hotmail.com Fri Aug 26 01:44:24 2005 From: tuxedo_man at hotmail.com (Billy Pang) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 06:44:24 +0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: just rereading below, maybe c) should be split into two scenarios (one for catfish and another for pickerel); therefore, chances of winning would be 2/4 instead of 2/3. >From: "Billy Pang" >Reply-To: Discussion of Hardware and Software >issues >To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:27:29 +0000 > >the way it was explained to me was that if you do swap doors, you double >your chances (on paper) of winning the grand prize. this is based on the >assumption that no matter what is behind the original door you choose, the >game show host WILL ALWAYS pick out a non-winning door to tempt you to >change your mind. if you keep this assumption, given the fact that the >host will never reveal the winning door, he is telling you which door does >not have the prize and this knowledge is worked into your probability of >picking the winning door. > >that is, there are only three possible scenarios, >a) if you pick pickerel, he shows you catfish, if you swap, you win >b) if you pick catfish, he shows you pickerel, if you swap, you win >c) if you pick winning door, he shows you catfish or pickerel, if you swap, >you lose > >given this, the "swapping doors" strategy wins 2 out of 3 times. >therefore, if you don't know what is behind the door you first pick, your >best strategy is to wait for your host to give you a hint and you pick the >other door. > >Billy > >>From: Peter Brawley >>Reply-To: Discussion of Hardware and Software >>issues >>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> >>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >>Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 22:03:18 -0500 >> >>John >> >> >And Arthur, while your door just increased from 1 in 3 to 1 in 2, so did >>the >> >other door. It matters not whether you switch or whether you stay, you >>have >> >a 50/50 chance of winning. There is no particular reason to switch, but >>you >> >don't affect your odds in the slightest by switching. Pick a door (of >>the >> >two remaining), any door, and you have a 50/50 chance. >> >>You can test your theory empirically. Visit >>http://people.hofstra.edu/staff/steven_r_costenoble/MontyHall/MontyHall.html. >>Do a dozen trials of holding your choice, and a dozen of switching it. Kep >>a count of the number of wins with each strategy. That gives you a 2x2 >>table. Now visit http://www.unc.edu/~preacher/fisher/fisher.htm, plug in >>your numbers in the little table near the bottom, and click 'Calculate'. >>The 'this tail' number is the probability that your numbers could have >>come about by chance from a scenario where the probabilities were 50-50. >> >>Or if you prefer, you can keep your theory :-) . >> >>PB >> >>----- >> >>John W. Colby wrote: >> >>>LOL, but the answer is screwy. Now take the example where TWO people are >>>choosing doors simultaneously. The third door is shown to NOT contain >>>the >>>prize. Both people should swap by the logic of the puzzle, but one of >>>them >>>is still going to lose and the other win. Each person (door) has a 50% >>>probability of winning. Which one will win? There is no way to predict >>>the >>>answer, each person has a 50% probability of winning the prize. >>> >>>The logic SOUNDS good but is screwy. Each door has a 1 in 3 chance of >>>being >>>a winner. Eliminate one door and each door has a 1 in 2 chance of being >>>a >>>winner. It matters not whether the third door is eliminated during the >>>game >>>or before the game starts. >>> >>>And Arthur, while your door just increased from 1 in 3 to 1 in 2, so did >>>the >>>other door. It matters not whether you switch or whether you stay, you >>>have >>>a 50/50 chance of winning. There is no particular reason to switch, but >>>you >>>don't affect your odds in the slightest by switching. Pick a door (of >>>the >>>two remaining), any door, and you have a 50/50 chance. >>> >>>John W. Colby >>>www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>>Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >>>http://folding.stanford.edu/ >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>>McLachlan >>>Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:20 PM >>>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >>>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >>> >>> >>>On 25 Aug 2005 at 20:04, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: >>>>there are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the other >>>>two are a dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. I invite you to >>>>select a door. You choose any one of the three: call it x I open another >>>>door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead >>>>catfish. Now, would you like to stick with your original choice or >>>>switch to the other door? Does it matter? If not, why not? If so, why >>>>so? There is a clear answer to this problem. Who is going to be the >>>>first to come up with it? Arthur >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>Ah, the good old Monty Hall puzzle. >>> >>>Strictly speaking, you need to qualify it by saying "I open another door >>>which I know contains a dead fish and show you the contents" If you >>>could open the money door by accident, it is a different situation. >>> >>>Anyhoo, the answers is: >>>Yes it matters, you should swap. >>> >>>I won't give the reason now 'cause it's a spoiler. I know some peole >>>will not agree with me and will go to great lengths to explain why I am >>>wrong :-) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>No virus found in this outgoing message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005 > > >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-Tech mailing list >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri Aug 26 01:55:19 2005 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 07:55:19 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF1B5E3D@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: <001c01c5aa0b$22837590$a5c00c54@minster33c3r25> There is a wonderful novel called "The Curious Incident Of The Dog In The Night-Time" by Mark Haddon. It's about a young boy with Asperger's Syndrome. I tell you this because one chapter comprises his musings on the Monty Hall problem, with a great explantion that even I can understand. And yes you should change. And do read that book. It's brilliant. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Erwin Craps - IT Helps > Sent: 26 August 2005 07:06 > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > > Ok found it. > Its called the Monty Hall rule. > I programmed it in the boxes version (there are many version > of this rule). My code was programmed in VB6 but its pretty > simple and will probably work straigt away in VBA to. > > Run the MontyHall sub adding the number of iterations. > As usual statistics are more accurate with larger numbers. > But you alreay see it with 10 iterations. > > > Here's the code. > ###BEGIN OF CODE### > Sub MontyHall(Iterations As Long) > Dim Success As Integer > Dim Boxes(3) As Boolean > Dim Choosen As Integer > Dim Unvealed As Integer > Dim NoChangeSuccess As Long > Dim ChangeSuccess As Long > Dim NoChangeTotal As Long > Dim ChangeTotal As Long > Dim NotChoosen As Integer > > Dim I As Integer, Iteration As Long > > For Iteration = 1 To Iterations > NoChangeSuccess = 0 > ChangeSuccess = 0 > > For I = 1 To 100 > Erase Boxes > > 'Set money in box > Randomize > Boxes(Int((3 * Rnd) + 1)) = True > > 'I'm Choosing a box > Randomize > Choosen = Int((3 * Rnd) + 1) > > > 'Unveale 1 empty box > Unvealed = Int((3 * Rnd) + 1) > Do Until Unvealed <> Choosen > Randomize > Unvealed = Int((3 * Rnd) + 1) > Loop > If Boxes(Unvealed) = True Then Unvealed = 6 - Choosen > - Unvealed > > > 'Check for values > NotChoosen = 6 - Choosen - Unvealed > If Boxes(Choosen) = True Then NoChangeSuccess = > NoChangeSuccess > + 1 > If Boxes(NotChoosen) = True Then ChangeSuccess = > ChangeSuccess + 1 > > Next I > > 'Remove Remark on folowing line for detailed results > 'Debug.Print "Iteration:" & Format(Iteration, "00#") & " > Result Choosen Box:" & NoChangeSuccess & " Other box:" & ChangeSuccess > > 'Set totals > NoChangeTotal = NoChangeTotal + NoChangeSuccess > ChangeTotal = ChangeTotal + ChangeSuccess > > > Next Iteration > > Debug.Print "Iterationtotals:" & " Result Choosen Box:" & > NoChangeTotal / Iterations & "% Other box:" & ChangeTotal / > Iterations & "%" > > End Sub > ###END OF CODE### > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Erwin Craps > - IT Helps > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:54 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > Ha, seen this a couple of years ago but with dead row > prisoners... I written an VBA program to take this > statistical weirdness to the test AND IT IS TRUE > > I try if I can find the program... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Josh McFarlane > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:22 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > Well, that one is a little bit more simple. > > Barrel A, Barrel B, and Barrel C > Fruit - Apples -- Oranges > > If he pulls Apples out of Barrel A, you apply Apples to > Barrel A, Oranges to Barrel B and Fruit to Barrel C, just a > matter of making sure the same label doesn't end up on the same spot. > > In the case of the game show problem however, you start out > with 3 choices to resolve the situation: > > 2 Losses > 1 Win > > No matter what you choose, the situation is simplified to two choices: > > 1 Loss > 1 Win > > The other properties of the choice don't change, as there > will always be 1 win and 1 loss. Nothing says either or will > be more probable than the other, so you should end up with a > 50/50 chance. > > On 8/25/05, MartyConnelly wrote: > > Well this is a microsoft interview question You have three barrels > > labelled oranges, apples and mixed fruit The barrels have all been > > mislabelled, Someone pulls out a fruit from a barrel and > tells you it > > is an apple your job is to relabel the barrels correctly. > > > > Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > > >On 25 Aug 2005 at 19:52, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >>I know the answer is to stick with original choice, but I can't > remember the logistics of why. > > >> > > >>-- > > >> > > >> > > >Bzzzt! > > > > > >Next? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Marty Connelly > > Victoria, B.C. > > Canada > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-Tech mailing list > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > Darsant Silverstring > > "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by > understanding." -Albert Einstein > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marcus at tsstech.com Fri Aug 26 06:10:27 2005 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 07:10:27 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem Message-ID: You should always switch because statistically you had a 1/3 chance of picking the correct door. You have a 2/3 chance of being right by switching. To make this clearer, you could say that there are a million doors with only one grand prize. I would then take away all the wrong doors except yours and one other door. Now which would you choose? Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 8:04 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: there are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the other two are a dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. I invite you to select a door. You choose any one of the three: call it x I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead catfish. Now, would you like to stick with your original choice or switch to the other door? Does it matter? If not, why not? If so, why so? There is a clear answer to this problem. Who is going to be the first to come up with it? Arthur _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Fri Aug 26 06:16:39 2005 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 07:16:39 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem Message-ID: John, The problem with you logic is as follows... If there were 1,000,000 doors of which only 1 had the prize and I took away all doors except yours and another door, would you then switch? By your logic, your chance is 50/50. Sorry, but I will switch every time. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:44 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem LOL, but the answer is screwy. Now take the example where TWO people are choosing doors simultaneously. The third door is shown to NOT contain the prize. Both people should swap by the logic of the puzzle, but one of them is still going to lose and the other win. Each person (door) has a 50% probability of winning. Which one will win? There is no way to predict the answer, each person has a 50% probability of winning the prize. The logic SOUNDS good but is screwy. Each door has a 1 in 3 chance of being a winner. Eliminate one door and each door has a 1 in 2 chance of being a winner. It matters not whether the third door is eliminated during the game or before the game starts. And Arthur, while your door just increased from 1 in 3 to 1 in 2, so did the other door. It matters not whether you switch or whether you stay, you have a 50/50 chance of winning. There is no particular reason to switch, but you don't affect your odds in the slightest by switching. Pick a door (of the two remaining), any door, and you have a 50/50 chance. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:20 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem On 25 Aug 2005 at 20:04, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: > there are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the > other two are a dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. I > invite you to select a door. You choose any one of the three: call it > x I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would > have won a dead catfish. Now, would you like to stick with your > original choice or switch to the other door? Does it matter? If not, > why not? If so, why so? There is a clear answer to this problem. Who > is going to be the first to come up with it? Arthur > > Ah, the good old Monty Hall puzzle. Strictly speaking, you need to qualify it by saying "I open another door which I know contains a dead fish and show you the contents" If you could open the money door by accident, it is a different situation. Anyhoo, the answers is: Yes it matters, you should swap. I won't give the reason now 'cause it's a spoiler. I know some peole will not agree with me and will go to great lengths to explain why I am wrong :-) -- Stuart _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Fri Aug 26 06:22:47 2005 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 07:22:47 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem Message-ID: Josh, You are comparing apples to oranges. I couldn't resist. See my other replies, you will probably change your mind. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Josh McFarlane Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:22 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem Well, that one is a little bit more simple. Barrel A, Barrel B, and Barrel C Fruit - Apples -- Oranges If he pulls Apples out of Barrel A, you apply Apples to Barrel A, Oranges to Barrel B and Fruit to Barrel C, just a matter of making sure the same label doesn't end up on the same spot. In the case of the game show problem however, you start out with 3 choices to resolve the situation: 2 Losses 1 Win No matter what you choose, the situation is simplified to two choices: 1 Loss 1 Win The other properties of the choice don't change, as there will always be 1 win and 1 loss. Nothing says either or will be more probable than the other, so you should end up with a 50/50 chance. On 8/25/05, MartyConnelly wrote: > Well this is a microsoft interview question > You have three barrels labelled oranges, apples and mixed fruit > The barrels have all been mislabelled, > Someone pulls out a fruit from a barrel and tells you it is an apple > your job is to relabel the barrels correctly. > > Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > >On 25 Aug 2005 at 19:52, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > > > > > > > >>I know the answer is to stick with original choice, but I can't remember the logistics of why. > >> > >>-- > >> > >> > >Bzzzt! > > > >Next? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Darsant Silverstring "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." -Albert Einstein _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 26 06:35:39 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 07:35:39 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <022101c5aa32$48a13ba0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> And it is exactly because of the "intentionally and knowingly taking away the non-winning door" that the logic works. If the host "just picks a door" (which wasn't apparent from the original post) and the door "just happens to be not the prize", then the problem changes. By the fact that that the host had knowledge of and intentionally chose a door with no prize, the problem does change, and I understand the answer. By the way, the way you just worded it it still wouldn't make a difference. Only if you knowingly took away doors that you knew did not have a prize would your answer be correct. If you just randomly chose which doors to eliminate then the problem is back to 50/50 because in fact, you may very well have eliminated the prize as well (in fact probably did). >I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead catfish. No where does that imply that he intentionally chose a door with no prize, he just opened (picked at random) a remaining door, looked at the contents, and announced the contents of that door. Not that I would have gotten the answer anyway, but I do understand that by his using his knowledge to pick a door with no prize he affected the outcome. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:17 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem John, The problem with you logic is as follows... If there were 1,000,000 doors of which only 1 had the prize and I took away all doors except yours and another door, would you then switch? By your logic, your chance is 50/50. Sorry, but I will switch every time. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:44 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem LOL, but the answer is screwy. Now take the example where TWO people are choosing doors simultaneously. The third door is shown to NOT contain the prize. Both people should swap by the logic of the puzzle, but one of them is still going to lose and the other win. Each person (door) has a 50% probability of winning. Which one will win? There is no way to predict the answer, each person has a 50% probability of winning the prize. The logic SOUNDS good but is screwy. Each door has a 1 in 3 chance of being a winner. Eliminate one door and each door has a 1 in 2 chance of being a winner. It matters not whether the third door is eliminated during the game or before the game starts. And Arthur, while your door just increased from 1 in 3 to 1 in 2, so did the other door. It matters not whether you switch or whether you stay, you have a 50/50 chance of winning. There is no particular reason to switch, but you don't affect your odds in the slightest by switching. Pick a door (of the two remaining), any door, and you have a 50/50 chance. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:20 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem On 25 Aug 2005 at 20:04, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: > there are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the > other two are a dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. I > invite you to select a door. You choose any one of the three: call it > x I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would > have won a dead catfish. Now, would you like to stick with your > original choice or switch to the other door? Does it matter? If not, > why not? If so, why so? There is a clear answer to this problem. Who > is going to be the first to come up with it? Arthur > > Ah, the good old Monty Hall puzzle. Strictly speaking, you need to qualify it by saying "I open another door which I know contains a dead fish and show you the contents" If you could open the money door by accident, it is a different situation. Anyhoo, the answers is: Yes it matters, you should swap. I won't give the reason now 'cause it's a spoiler. I know some peole will not agree with me and will go to great lengths to explain why I am wrong :-) -- Stuart _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lembit.soobik at t-online.de Fri Aug 26 06:40:28 2005 From: lembit.soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 13:40:28 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem References: Message-ID: <010101c5aa32$f54f2a60$0400a8c0@m2533> I think you make it too complicated. forget the history. at the end, what you have is two doors: one is the winning door just pick one. doesnt matter what you had picked before doesnt matter whether you swap or not. and you can write simulation programs till the cows come home fact is you have one right and one wrong and have to pick one so you have 1 out of two chance thats all. Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billy Pang" To: Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > just rereading below, maybe c) should be split into two scenarios (one for > catfish and another for pickerel); therefore, chances of winning would be > 2/4 instead of 2/3. > > >>From: "Billy Pang" >>Reply-To: Discussion of Hardware and Software >>issues >>To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >>Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:27:29 +0000 >> >>the way it was explained to me was that if you do swap doors, you double >>your chances (on paper) of winning the grand prize. this is based on the >>assumption that no matter what is behind the original door you choose, the >>game show host WILL ALWAYS pick out a non-winning door to tempt you to >>change your mind. if you keep this assumption, given the fact that the >>host will never reveal the winning door, he is telling you which door does >>not have the prize and this knowledge is worked into your probability of >>picking the winning door. >> >>that is, there are only three possible scenarios, >>a) if you pick pickerel, he shows you catfish, if you swap, you win >>b) if you pick catfish, he shows you pickerel, if you swap, you win >>c) if you pick winning door, he shows you catfish or pickerel, if you swap, >>you lose >> >>given this, the "swapping doors" strategy wins 2 out of 3 times. >>therefore, if you don't know what is behind the door you first pick, your >>best strategy is to wait for your host to give you a hint and you pick the >>other door. >> >>Billy >> >>>From: Peter Brawley >>>Reply-To: Discussion of Hardware and Software >>>issues >>>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >>> >>>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >>>Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 22:03:18 -0500 >>> >>>John >>> >>> >And Arthur, while your door just increased from 1 in 3 to 1 in 2, so did >>>the >>> >other door. It matters not whether you switch or whether you stay, you >>>have >>> >a 50/50 chance of winning. There is no particular reason to switch, but >>>you >>> >don't affect your odds in the slightest by switching. Pick a door (of >>>the >>> >two remaining), any door, and you have a 50/50 chance. >>> >>>You can test your theory empirically. Visit >>>http://people.hofstra.edu/staff/steven_r_costenoble/MontyHall/MontyHall.html. >>>Do a dozen trials of holding your choice, and a dozen of switching it. Kep >>>a count of the number of wins with each strategy. That gives you a 2x2 >>>table. Now visit http://www.unc.edu/~preacher/fisher/fisher.htm, plug in >>>your numbers in the little table near the bottom, and click 'Calculate'. >>>The 'this tail' number is the probability that your numbers could have >>>come about by chance from a scenario where the probabilities were 50-50. >>> >>>Or if you prefer, you can keep your theory :-) . >>> >>>PB >>> >>>----- >>> >>>John W. Colby wrote: >>> >>>>LOL, but the answer is screwy. Now take the example where TWO people are >>>>choosing doors simultaneously. The third door is shown to NOT contain >>>>the >>>>prize. Both people should swap by the logic of the puzzle, but one of >>>>them >>>>is still going to lose and the other win. Each person (door) has a 50% >>>>probability of winning. Which one will win? There is no way to predict >>>>the >>>>answer, each person has a 50% probability of winning the prize. >>>> >>>>The logic SOUNDS good but is screwy. Each door has a 1 in 3 chance of >>>>being >>>>a winner. Eliminate one door and each door has a 1 in 2 chance of being >>>>a >>>>winner. It matters not whether the third door is eliminated during the >>>>game >>>>or before the game starts. >>>> >>>>And Arthur, while your door just increased from 1 in 3 to 1 in 2, so did >>>>the >>>>other door. It matters not whether you switch or whether you stay, you >>>>have >>>>a 50/50 chance of winning. There is no particular reason to switch, but >>>>you >>>>don't affect your odds in the slightest by switching. Pick a door (of >>>>the >>>>two remaining), any door, and you have a 50/50 chance. >>>> >>>>John W. Colby >>>>www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>>>Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >>>>http://folding.stanford.edu/ >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>>>McLachlan >>>>Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:20 PM >>>>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >>>>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >>>> >>>> >>>>On 25 Aug 2005 at 20:04, Arthur Fuller wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: >>>>>there are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the other >>>>>two are a dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. I invite you to >>>>>select a door. You choose any one of the three: call it x I open another >>>>>door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead >>>>>catfish. Now, would you like to stick with your original choice or >>>>>switch to the other door? Does it matter? If not, why not? If so, why >>>>>so? There is a clear answer to this problem. Who is going to be the >>>>>first to come up with it? Arthur >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>Ah, the good old Monty Hall puzzle. >>>> >>>>Strictly speaking, you need to qualify it by saying "I open another door >>>>which I know contains a dead fish and show you the contents" If you >>>>could open the money door by accident, it is a different situation. >>>> >>>>Anyhoo, the answers is: >>>>Yes it matters, you should swap. >>>> >>>>I won't give the reason now 'cause it's a spoiler. I know some peole >>>>will not agree with me and will go to great lengths to explain why I am >>>>wrong :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >>>No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005 >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>dba-Tech mailing list >>>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-Tech mailing list >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: 25.08.2005 > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Aug 26 07:01:52 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 22:01:52 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <010101c5aa32$f54f2a60$0400a8c0@m2533> Message-ID: <430F9150.2200.A3C720B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 26 Aug 2005 at 13:40, Lembit Soobik wrote: > I think you make it too complicated. > forget the history. That's the flaw in your argument. You can't forget the history. > at the end, what you have is two doors: > one is the winning door > just pick one. > doesnt matter what you had picked before Yes it does. > doesnt matter whether you swap or not. Yes it does. > and you can write simulation programs till the cows come home And if they are written correctly, they will give you the correct answer over enough trials. > fact is you have one right and one wrong and have to pick one > so you have 1 out of two chance thats all. > Fact is, when you first picked you had three choices. The odds are 1/3 you are right initially. In that one case, switching is wrong. In the 2/3 where you were wrong initially, changing will always give you the correct door. (Assuming the problem is stated correctly. As I said previous, you need to qualify it by saying "I open another door which I know contains a dead fish and show you the contents" If you could open the money door by accident, it is a different situation.) So in 1/3 cases you win by staying, in 2/3 cases you win by switching. -- Stuart From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Fri Aug 26 07:15:49 2005 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 13:15:49 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem References: <430F9150.2200.A3C720B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001901c5aa37$e55fc830$9111758f@aine> But if I pick Door B and Door B is still closed when I am offered my choice and don't change and Door B is opened and contains nothing then I lose. If I do change an choose door A then I win However if I change to Door A and Door B contains the prize then I lose. When I make the decision to change door I have a 50/50 chance of winning. I am left with two doors. Forget door 3 it doesn't exist any more as an option. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > On 26 Aug 2005 at 13:40, Lembit Soobik wrote: > >> I think you make it too complicated. >> forget the history. > > That's the flaw in your argument. You can't forget the history. > >> at the end, what you have is two doors: >> one is the winning door >> just pick one. >> doesnt matter what you had picked before > > Yes it does. > >> doesnt matter whether you swap or not. > > Yes it does. > >> and you can write simulation programs till the cows come home > > And if they are written correctly, they will give you the correct answer > over enough trials. > >> fact is you have one right and one wrong and have to pick one >> so you have 1 out of two chance thats all. >> > > Fact is, when you first picked you had three choices. > > The odds are 1/3 you are right initially. In that one case, switching is > wrong. > > In the 2/3 where you were wrong initially, changing will always give you > the correct door. (Assuming the problem is stated correctly. As I said > previous, you need to qualify it by saying "I open another door > which I know contains a dead fish and show you the contents" If you could > open the money door by accident, it is a different situation.) > > So in 1/3 cases you win by staying, in 2/3 cases you win by switching. > > -- > Stuart > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 26 07:36:41 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:36:41 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <430F9150.2200.A3C720B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <022301c5aa3a$cf43f690$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> In fact the problem CORRECTLY STATED is similar to blackjack, where knowing what came before affects the PROBABILITY of what will come next. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 8:02 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem On 26 Aug 2005 at 13:40, Lembit Soobik wrote: > I think you make it too complicated. > forget the history. That's the flaw in your argument. You can't forget the history. > at the end, what you have is two doors: > one is the winning door > just pick one. > doesnt matter what you had picked before Yes it does. > doesnt matter whether you swap or not. Yes it does. > and you can write simulation programs till the cows come home And if they are written correctly, they will give you the correct answer over enough trials. > fact is you have one right and one wrong and have to pick one so you > have 1 out of two chance thats all. > Fact is, when you first picked you had three choices. The odds are 1/3 you are right initially. In that one case, switching is wrong. In the 2/3 where you were wrong initially, changing will always give you the correct door. (Assuming the problem is stated correctly. As I said previous, you need to qualify it by saying "I open another door which I know contains a dead fish and show you the contents" If you could open the money door by accident, it is a different situation.) So in 1/3 cases you win by staying, in 2/3 cases you win by switching. -- Stuart _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 26 07:38:40 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:38:40 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: FireFox not wrapping Message-ID: <022401c5aa3b$19dacfd0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Does anyone know how to get firefox to wrap to the screen dimensions? I am viewing MS pages which trail off to the side (have to use the slider) in FF but wrap correctly in IE. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 08:03:24 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:03:24 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: FireFox not wrapping In-Reply-To: <022401c5aa3b$19dacfd0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> References: <022401c5aa3b$19dacfd0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: On 26/08/05, John W. Colby wrote: > Does anyone know how to get firefox to wrap to the screen dimensions? I am > viewing MS pages which trail off to the side (have to use the slider) in FF > but wrap correctly in IE. You can try one of the User Agent Switcher Extensions and set the User Agent to IE and see if that works. I suspect that MS has coded the HTML/CSS for IE's broken CSS box model, but that's just a guess. The User Agent Switcher I use is User Agent Switcher Extension, http://chrispederick.com/work/firefox/useragentswitcher/ -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From shamil at users.mns.ru Fri Aug 26 08:21:24 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 17:21:24 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Self-serving plug References: <200508251505.j7PF5VR06462@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <005701c5aa41$110d7d20$6501a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Arthur, I have just read your article. Yes, I agree with many statements from it. Thanks, Shamil P.S. As far as I can remember RSX11-M (PDP11 OS) was delivered with all the source code. And I did investigate it (RSM-11M core) to solve one tough task. And their coding (assembler) was great... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:05 PM Subject: [dba-Tech] Self-serving plug > My first article for Simple-Talk.com just appeared. > http://www.simple-talk.com/ is the site. Since they measure hit-counts, if > you have a moment please visit same to increase my hit-count :) > TIA, > Arthur > P.S. > The article is highly opinionated. Please let us not clutter this list with > your objections, if any, but instead direct them to the web site itself. > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 26 08:25:03 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:25:03 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <020401c5a9e8$1482cb30$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <200508261325.j7QDP9R18733@databaseadvisors.com> Work it out in the three cases. You will see that by switching you will win twice. By staying you win only once. Does not matter where the prize is, but for the following example suppose it is behind door 3. a) you choose door one. Host opens door two. You stay and lose. b) you choose door two. Host opens door one. You stay and lose. c) you choose door three. Host opens either one or two. You stay and win. And the opposite obtains. In cases a and b you switch and win. In case c you switch and lose. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: August 25, 2005 10:44 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem LOL, but the answer is screwy. Now take the example where TWO people are choosing doors simultaneously. The third door is shown to NOT contain the prize. Both people should swap by the logic of the puzzle, but one of them is still going to lose and the other win. Each person (door) has a 50% probability of winning. Which one will win? There is no way to predict the answer, each person has a 50% probability of winning the prize. The logic SOUNDS good but is screwy. Each door has a 1 in 3 chance of being a winner. Eliminate one door and each door has a 1 in 2 chance of being a winner. It matters not whether the third door is eliminated during the game or before the game starts. And Arthur, while your door just increased from 1 in 3 to 1 in 2, so did the other door. It matters not whether you switch or whether you stay, you have a 50/50 chance of winning. There is no particular reason to switch, but you don't affect your odds in the slightest by switching. Pick a door (of the two remaining), any door, and you have a 50/50 chance. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:20 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem On 25 Aug 2005 at 20:04, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: > there are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the > other two are a dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. I > invite you to select a door. You choose any one of the three: call it > x I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would > have won a dead catfish. Now, would you like to stick with your > original choice or switch to the other door? Does it matter? If not, > why not? If so, why so? There is a clear answer to this problem. Who > is going to be the first to come up with it? Arthur > > Ah, the good old Monty Hall puzzle. Strictly speaking, you need to qualify it by saying "I open another door which I know contains a dead fish and show you the contents" If you could open the money door by accident, it is a different situation. Anyhoo, the answers is: Yes it matters, you should swap. I won't give the reason now 'cause it's a spoiler. I know some peole will not agree with me and will go to great lengths to explain why I am wrong :-) -- Stuart _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Fri Aug 26 08:55:49 2005 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:55:49 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem Message-ID: John, The fact remains that when you picked the door, you had a 1/3 chance of being correct. If the host removes a door (no matter which because if the host removes the winning door your chance is 0%), the host just increased your chances to being 2/3 correct. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:36 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem And it is exactly because of the "intentionally and knowingly taking away the non-winning door" that the logic works. If the host "just picks a door" (which wasn't apparent from the original post) and the door "just happens to be not the prize", then the problem changes. By the fact that that the host had knowledge of and intentionally chose a door with no prize, the problem does change, and I understand the answer. By the way, the way you just worded it it still wouldn't make a difference. Only if you knowingly took away doors that you knew did not have a prize would your answer be correct. If you just randomly chose which doors to eliminate then the problem is back to 50/50 because in fact, you may very well have eliminated the prize as well (in fact probably did). >I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead catfish. No where does that imply that he intentionally chose a door with no prize, he just opened (picked at random) a remaining door, looked at the contents, and announced the contents of that door. Not that I would have gotten the answer anyway, but I do understand that by his using his knowledge to pick a door with no prize he affected the outcome. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:17 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem John, The problem with you logic is as follows... If there were 1,000,000 doors of which only 1 had the prize and I took away all doors except yours and another door, would you then switch? By your logic, your chance is 50/50. Sorry, but I will switch every time. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:44 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem LOL, but the answer is screwy. Now take the example where TWO people are choosing doors simultaneously. The third door is shown to NOT contain the prize. Both people should swap by the logic of the puzzle, but one of them is still going to lose and the other win. Each person (door) has a 50% probability of winning. Which one will win? There is no way to predict the answer, each person has a 50% probability of winning the prize. The logic SOUNDS good but is screwy. Each door has a 1 in 3 chance of being a winner. Eliminate one door and each door has a 1 in 2 chance of being a winner. It matters not whether the third door is eliminated during the game or before the game starts. And Arthur, while your door just increased from 1 in 3 to 1 in 2, so did the other door. It matters not whether you switch or whether you stay, you have a 50/50 chance of winning. There is no particular reason to switch, but you don't affect your odds in the slightest by switching. Pick a door (of the two remaining), any door, and you have a 50/50 chance. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:20 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem On 25 Aug 2005 at 20:04, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: > there are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the > other two are a dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. I > invite you to select a door. You choose any one of the three: call it > x I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would > have won a dead catfish. Now, would you like to stick with your > original choice or switch to the other door? Does it matter? If not, > why not? If so, why so? There is a clear answer to this problem. Who > is going to be the first to come up with it? Arthur > > Ah, the good old Monty Hall puzzle. Strictly speaking, you need to qualify it by saying "I open another door which I know contains a dead fish and show you the contents" If you could open the money door by accident, it is a different situation. Anyhoo, the answers is: Yes it matters, you should swap. I won't give the reason now 'cause it's a spoiler. I know some peole will not agree with me and will go to great lengths to explain why I am wrong :-) -- Stuart _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Aug 26 09:14:47 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:14:47 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray Message-ID: <200508261414.j7QEErR32623@databaseadvisors.com> Had a fellow call and ask if I could get his "new" computer past a password for him that he didn't know. He bought this PC at an estate sale and didn't know any passwords. After a couple of questions I determined it was the bios password and so that was a quick fix but since he had to drop it off I'd check it over for him while I was at it. Poor dude just bought a Compaq Presario with a Pentium (1), 32MB of RAM, 6GB HD and WIndows 95. The things is built like a tank though and runs quite well. My problem is that it has a CD Drive without a tray and the bugger won't cough up one of my CDs! It worked with other CDs before this one. Of course with a tray system they have the little hole where you can manually open the tray. But I have no idea how to manually eject this thing. Any Ideas? John B. From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Fri Aug 26 09:17:13 2005 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:17:13 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: FireFox not wrapping In-Reply-To: <022401c5aa3b$19dacfd0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> References: <022401c5aa3b$19dacfd0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <430F2469.7080808@earthlink.net> John >Does anyone know how to get firefox to wrap to the screen dimensions? I am >viewing MS pages which trail off to the side (have to use the slider) in FF >but wrap correctly in IE. PB ----- John W. Colby wrote: >Does anyone know how to get firefox to wrap to the screen dimensions? I am >viewing MS pages which trail off to the side (have to use the slider) in FF >but wrap correctly in IE. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005 From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 26 09:22:34 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:22:34 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <024e01c5aa49$9df179f0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Yes, but without the "knowledge" factor, he also increased the likelihood that the OTHER door was a winner to 2/3 as well. Now both doors are equal. Only in the case where the host KNOWS and USES HIS KNOWLEDGE to eliminate a non-winning door does he increase YOUR DOOR. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 9:56 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem John, The fact remains that when you picked the door, you had a 1/3 chance of being correct. If the host removes a door (no matter which because if the host removes the winning door your chance is 0%), the host just increased your chances to being 2/3 correct. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:36 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem And it is exactly because of the "intentionally and knowingly taking away the non-winning door" that the logic works. If the host "just picks a door" (which wasn't apparent from the original post) and the door "just happens to be not the prize", then the problem changes. By the fact that that the host had knowledge of and intentionally chose a door with no prize, the problem does change, and I understand the answer. By the way, the way you just worded it it still wouldn't make a difference. Only if you knowingly took away doors that you knew did not have a prize would your answer be correct. If you just randomly chose which doors to eliminate then the problem is back to 50/50 because in fact, you may very well have eliminated the prize as well (in fact probably did). >I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead catfish. No where does that imply that he intentionally chose a door with no prize, he just opened (picked at random) a remaining door, looked at the contents, and announced the contents of that door. Not that I would have gotten the answer anyway, but I do understand that by his using his knowledge to pick a door with no prize he affected the outcome. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:17 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem John, The problem with you logic is as follows... If there were 1,000,000 doors of which only 1 had the prize and I took away all doors except yours and another door, would you then switch? By your logic, your chance is 50/50. Sorry, but I will switch every time. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:44 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem LOL, but the answer is screwy. Now take the example where TWO people are choosing doors simultaneously. The third door is shown to NOT contain the prize. Both people should swap by the logic of the puzzle, but one of them is still going to lose and the other win. Each person (door) has a 50% probability of winning. Which one will win? There is no way to predict the answer, each person has a 50% probability of winning the prize. The logic SOUNDS good but is screwy. Each door has a 1 in 3 chance of being a winner. Eliminate one door and each door has a 1 in 2 chance of being a winner. It matters not whether the third door is eliminated during the game or before the game starts. And Arthur, while your door just increased from 1 in 3 to 1 in 2, so did the other door. It matters not whether you switch or whether you stay, you have a 50/50 chance of winning. There is no particular reason to switch, but you don't affect your odds in the slightest by switching. Pick a door (of the two remaining), any door, and you have a 50/50 chance. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:20 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem On 25 Aug 2005 at 20:04, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: > there are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the > other two are a dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. I > invite you to select a door. You choose any one of the three: call it > x I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would > have won a dead catfish. Now, would you like to stick with your > original choice or switch to the other door? Does it matter? If not, > why not? If so, why so? There is a clear answer to this problem. Who > is going to be the first to come up with it? Arthur > > Ah, the good old Monty Hall puzzle. Strictly speaking, you need to qualify it by saying "I open another door which I know contains a dead fish and show you the contents" If you could open the money door by accident, it is a different situation. Anyhoo, the answers is: Yes it matters, you should swap. I won't give the reason now 'cause it's a spoiler. I know some peole will not agree with me and will go to great lengths to explain why I am wrong :-) -- Stuart _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 26 09:24:32 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:24:32 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: FireFox not wrapping In-Reply-To: <430F2469.7080808@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <024f01c5aa49$e051a9f0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Is this a setting in Firefox or an attribute in Microsoft's web page? I have some control over Firefox, but none at all over Microsoft's web page. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:17 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: FireFox not wrapping John >Does anyone know how to get firefox to wrap to the screen dimensions? I am >viewing MS pages which trail off to the side (have to use the slider) in FF >but wrap correctly in IE. PB ----- John W. Colby wrote: >Does anyone know how to get firefox to wrap to the screen dimensions? >I am viewing MS pages which trail off to the side (have to use the >slider) in FF but wrap correctly in IE. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005 _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Fri Aug 26 09:36:21 2005 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:36:21 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem Message-ID: John, The problem was stated originally that the host revealed a non-winning door. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com From lembit.soobik at t-online.de Fri Aug 26 09:44:32 2005 From: lembit.soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 16:44:32 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem References: Message-ID: <01e801c5aa4c$abfb3290$0400a8c0@m2533> which leaves one winning and one non-winning door and since you do not know which one the winning door is, you have a 1 out of 2 chance. The host has simply changed the game from 1 out of 3 to 1 out of two the new situation is not dependent on your previous choice. how could your making a choice at the beginning change the situation after the 3rd door was removed? Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Marcus" To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 4:36 PM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > John, > > The problem was stated originally that the host revealed a non-winning > door. > > Scott Marcus > IT Programmer > TSS Technologies Inc. > www.tss.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: 25.08.2005 > > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Fri Aug 26 09:52:11 2005 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 15:52:11 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem References: Message-ID: <000901c5aa4d$bd199020$9111758f@aine> http://www.mste.uiuc.edu/reese/monty/solution.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Marcus" To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 3:36 PM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > John, > > The problem was stated originally that the host revealed a non-winning > door. > > Scott Marcus > IT Programmer > TSS Technologies Inc. > www.tss.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 26 09:52:24 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:52:24 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <025301c5aa4d$c81fad10$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> It does indeed state that, what it does NOT state is that the host INTENTIONALLY PICKED a non-winning door. >I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: >there are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the other two are a dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. >I invite you to select a door. You choose any one of the three: call it x. >I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead catfish. That is the original message, word for word, as stated in Arthur's email. The last sentence is the crux of the matter... >I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead catfish. Had he said: "I intentionally pick a door that is a loser and say..." THEN the solution being discussed is indeed valid. It his use of the knowledge he has that is the issue. If the host flips a coin, and uses the result of the coin toss to pick one of the other doors, then you are back to 50/50. He is not telling you anything, he is just eliminating a door, that just happens to be a loser. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:36 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem John, The problem was stated originally that the host revealed a non-winning door. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 26 09:58:28 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:58:28 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <000901c5aa4d$bd199020$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <025501c5aa4e$9dd5e960$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Yea, I know, I looked it up on the internet too. I'm just picking nits with poor Arthur who just seems to never get things right. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:52 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem http://www.mste.uiuc.edu/reese/monty/solution.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Marcus" To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 3:36 PM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > John, > > The problem was stated originally that the host revealed a non-winning > door. > > Scott Marcus > IT Programmer > TSS Technologies Inc. > www.tss.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Fri Aug 26 10:00:02 2005 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:00:02 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem Message-ID: When you originally picked the door, you had a 1/3 chance that the door was the winning door. If the host reveals a non-winning door that isn't the door you picked, that door you picked still has only a 1/3 chance of being correct. Lembit, lets play a game. Pick a number between 1 and 1,000,000. Only one number will be a winning number. After you pick your number, I'm gonna reveal 999,998 doors as non-winning doors so that only your door and one other door remains (of which one is the winning door). Are your chances still 50/50? So really pick a number. I'll have a third party monitor the winning number so that no cheating can be involved. We'll do this 1000 times and I bet you that if you switch doors that you will win way more than 50% of the time (it will be very close to if not 100% of the time). Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:45 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem which leaves one winning and one non-winning door and since you do not know which one the winning door is, you have a 1 out of 2 chance. The host has simply changed the game from 1 out of 3 to 1 out of two the new situation is not dependent on your previous choice. how could your making a choice at the beginning change the situation after the 3rd door was removed? Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Marcus" To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 4:36 PM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > John, > > The problem was stated originally that the host revealed a non-winning > door. > > Scott Marcus > IT Programmer > TSS Technologies Inc. > www.tss.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: 25.08.2005 > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Fri Aug 26 10:02:59 2005 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:02:59 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem Message-ID: John, The host's intentions have nothing to do with the math. The fact is that the host revealed a non-winning door. Therefore your odds of winning are 2/3 if you switch. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:52 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem It does indeed state that, what it does NOT state is that the host INTENTIONALLY PICKED a non-winning door. >I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: >there are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the other two are a dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. >I invite you to select a door. You choose any one of the three: call it x. >I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead catfish. That is the original message, word for word, as stated in Arthur's email. The last sentence is the crux of the matter... >I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead catfish. Had he said: "I intentionally pick a door that is a loser and say..." THEN the solution being discussed is indeed valid. It his use of the knowledge he has that is the issue. If the host flips a coin, and uses the result of the coin toss to pick one of the other doors, then you are back to 50/50. He is not telling you anything, he is just eliminating a door, that just happens to be a loser. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:36 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem John, The problem was stated originally that the host revealed a non-winning door. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Fri Aug 26 10:09:58 2005 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:09:58 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: FireFox not wrapping In-Reply-To: <024f01c5aa49$e051a9f0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> References: <024f01c5aa49$e051a9f0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <430F30C6.30908@earthlink.net> John, Sorry, I thought you were /writing/ an HTML page. M$ writes its webpages for IE, which handles   differently from the standard (what a surprise). Perhaps you want the Firefox extension which makes it emulate IE's behaviour? PB ----- John W. Colby wrote: >Is this a setting in Firefox or an attribute in Microsoft's web page? I >have some control over Firefox, but none at all over Microsoft's web page. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley >Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:17 AM >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: FireFox not wrapping > > >John > > >Does anyone know how to get firefox to wrap to the screen dimensions? I am > > >>viewing MS pages which trail off to the side (have to use the slider) >> >> >in FF > >but wrap correctly in IE. > > > >PB > >----- > >John W. Colby wrote: > > > >>Does anyone know how to get firefox to wrap to the screen dimensions? >>I am viewing MS pages which trail off to the side (have to use the >>slider) in FF but wrap correctly in IE. >> >>John W. Colby >>www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >>Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >>http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-Tech mailing list >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.16/83 - Release Date: 8/26/2005 From lembit.soobik at t-online.de Fri Aug 26 10:23:59 2005 From: lembit.soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 17:23:59 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem References: Message-ID: <020d01c5aa52$2ec1f330$0400a8c0@m2533> I see what you mean, but thing is that you have changed the rules during the game. now assume after you revealed the one non-winning door a third person comes in what are his chances to select the winning door from the two which are left over? Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Marcus" To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 5:00 PM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > When you originally picked the door, you had a 1/3 chance that the door > was the winning door. If the host reveals a non-winning door that isn't > the door you picked, that door you picked still has only a 1/3 chance of > being correct. > > Lembit, lets play a game. Pick a number between 1 and 1,000,000. Only > one number will be a winning number. After you pick your number, I'm > gonna reveal 999,998 doors as non-winning doors so that only your door > and one other door remains (of which one is the winning door). Are your > chances still 50/50? > > So really pick a number. I'll have a third party monitor the winning > number so that no cheating can be involved. We'll do this 1000 times and > I bet you that if you switch doors that you will win way more than 50% > of the time (it will be very close to if not 100% of the time). > > Scott Marcus > IT Programmer > TSS Technologies Inc. > www.tss.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit > Soobik > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:45 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > which leaves one winning and one non-winning door > and since you do not know which one the winning door is, > you have a 1 out of 2 chance. > > The host has simply changed the game from 1 out of 3 to 1 out of two > the new situation is not dependent on your previous choice. > > how could your making a choice at the beginning change the situation > after the > 3rd door was removed? > > Lembit > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Marcus" > To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 4:36 PM > Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > >> John, >> >> The problem was stated originally that the host revealed a non-winning >> door. >> >> Scott Marcus >> IT Programmer >> TSS Technologies Inc. >> www.tss.com >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: > 25.08.2005 >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: 25.08.2005 > > From marcus at tsstech.com Fri Aug 26 10:33:25 2005 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:33:25 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem Message-ID: I have not changed the rules. In the original case your winning percentage out of 1000 picks would be close to 66.66666...% Introducing the second person and their chances depends on if they have prior knowledge. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 11:24 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem I see what you mean, but thing is that you have changed the rules during the game. now assume after you revealed the one non-winning door a third person comes in what are his chances to select the winning door from the two which are left over? Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Marcus" To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 5:00 PM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > When you originally picked the door, you had a 1/3 chance that the door > was the winning door. If the host reveals a non-winning door that isn't > the door you picked, that door you picked still has only a 1/3 chance of > being correct. > > Lembit, lets play a game. Pick a number between 1 and 1,000,000. Only > one number will be a winning number. After you pick your number, I'm > gonna reveal 999,998 doors as non-winning doors so that only your door > and one other door remains (of which one is the winning door). Are your > chances still 50/50? > > So really pick a number. I'll have a third party monitor the winning > number so that no cheating can be involved. We'll do this 1000 times and > I bet you that if you switch doors that you will win way more than 50% > of the time (it will be very close to if not 100% of the time). > > Scott Marcus > IT Programmer > TSS Technologies Inc. > www.tss.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit > Soobik > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:45 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > which leaves one winning and one non-winning door > and since you do not know which one the winning door is, > you have a 1 out of 2 chance. > > The host has simply changed the game from 1 out of 3 to 1 out of two > the new situation is not dependent on your previous choice. > > how could your making a choice at the beginning change the situation > after the > 3rd door was removed? > > Lembit > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Marcus" > To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 4:36 PM > Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > >> John, >> >> The problem was stated originally that the host revealed a non-winning >> door. >> >> Scott Marcus >> IT Programmer >> TSS Technologies Inc. >> www.tss.com >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: > 25.08.2005 >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: 25.08.2005 > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lembit.soobik at t-online.de Fri Aug 26 10:43:52 2005 From: lembit.soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 17:43:52 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem References: Message-ID: <024101c5aa54$f5f3fd70$0400a8c0@m2533> ok, but you changed the whole game. first game was select one out of 3 second game is select one out of two ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Marcus" To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 5:33 PM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >I have not changed the rules. In the original case your winning > percentage out of 1000 picks would be close to 66.66666...% > > Introducing the second person and their chances depends on if they have > prior knowledge. > > Scott Marcus > IT Programmer > TSS Technologies Inc. > www.tss.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit > Soobik > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 11:24 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > I see what you mean, but thing is that you have changed the rules during > the > game. > now assume after you revealed the one non-winning door > a third person comes in > what are his chances to select the winning door from the two which are > left > over? > > Lembit > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Marcus" > To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 5:00 PM > Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > >> When you originally picked the door, you had a 1/3 chance that the > door >> was the winning door. If the host reveals a non-winning door that > isn't >> the door you picked, that door you picked still has only a 1/3 chance > of >> being correct. >> >> Lembit, lets play a game. Pick a number between 1 and 1,000,000. Only >> one number will be a winning number. After you pick your number, I'm >> gonna reveal 999,998 doors as non-winning doors so that only your door >> and one other door remains (of which one is the winning door). Are > your >> chances still 50/50? >> >> So really pick a number. I'll have a third party monitor the winning >> number so that no cheating can be involved. We'll do this 1000 times > and >> I bet you that if you switch doors that you will win way more than 50% >> of the time (it will be very close to if not 100% of the time). >> >> Scott Marcus >> IT Programmer >> TSS Technologies Inc. >> www.tss.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit >> Soobik >> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:45 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >> >> which leaves one winning and one non-winning door >> and since you do not know which one the winning door is, >> you have a 1 out of 2 chance. >> >> The host has simply changed the game from 1 out of 3 to 1 out of two >> the new situation is not dependent on your previous choice. >> >> how could your making a choice at the beginning change the situation >> after the >> 3rd door was removed? >> >> Lembit >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott Marcus" >> To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" >> >> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 4:36 PM >> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >> >> >>> John, >>> >>> The problem was stated originally that the host revealed a > non-winning >>> door. >>> >>> Scott Marcus >>> IT Programmer >>> TSS Technologies Inc. >>> www.tss.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: >> 25.08.2005 >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: > 25.08.2005 >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: 25.08.2005 > > From marcus at tsstech.com Fri Aug 26 10:55:57 2005 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:55:57 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem Message-ID: Lembit, It's still select 1 out of 3 the host just revealed a non-winning door. Who in their right mind would pick that door. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 11:44 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem ok, but you changed the whole game. first game was select one out of 3 second game is select one out of two ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Marcus" To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 5:33 PM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >I have not changed the rules. In the original case your winning > percentage out of 1000 picks would be close to 66.66666...% > > Introducing the second person and their chances depends on if they have > prior knowledge. > > Scott Marcus > IT Programmer > TSS Technologies Inc. > www.tss.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit > Soobik > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 11:24 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > I see what you mean, but thing is that you have changed the rules during > the > game. > now assume after you revealed the one non-winning door > a third person comes in > what are his chances to select the winning door from the two which are > left > over? > > Lembit > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Marcus" > To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 5:00 PM > Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > >> When you originally picked the door, you had a 1/3 chance that the > door >> was the winning door. If the host reveals a non-winning door that > isn't >> the door you picked, that door you picked still has only a 1/3 chance > of >> being correct. >> >> Lembit, lets play a game. Pick a number between 1 and 1,000,000. Only >> one number will be a winning number. After you pick your number, I'm >> gonna reveal 999,998 doors as non-winning doors so that only your door >> and one other door remains (of which one is the winning door). Are > your >> chances still 50/50? >> >> So really pick a number. I'll have a third party monitor the winning >> number so that no cheating can be involved. We'll do this 1000 times > and >> I bet you that if you switch doors that you will win way more than 50% >> of the time (it will be very close to if not 100% of the time). >> >> Scott Marcus >> IT Programmer >> TSS Technologies Inc. >> www.tss.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit >> Soobik >> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:45 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >> >> which leaves one winning and one non-winning door >> and since you do not know which one the winning door is, >> you have a 1 out of 2 chance. >> >> The host has simply changed the game from 1 out of 3 to 1 out of two >> the new situation is not dependent on your previous choice. >> >> how could your making a choice at the beginning change the situation >> after the >> 3rd door was removed? >> >> Lembit >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott Marcus" >> To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" >> >> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 4:36 PM >> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >> >> >>> John, >>> >>> The problem was stated originally that the host revealed a > non-winning >>> door. >>> >>> Scott Marcus >>> IT Programmer >>> TSS Technologies Inc. >>> www.tss.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: >> 25.08.2005 >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: > 25.08.2005 >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: 25.08.2005 > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 11:19:17 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:19:17 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: FireFox not wrapping In-Reply-To: <024f01c5aa49$e051a9f0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> References: <430F2469.7080808@earthlink.net> <024f01c5aa49$e051a9f0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: On 26/08/05, John W. Colby wrote: > Is this a setting in Firefox or an attribute in Microsoft's web page? I > have some control over Firefox, but none at all over Microsoft's web page. John, Do you have the latest Web Developer Extension (http://chrispederick.com/work/firefox/webdeveloper/) installed? If you do, on the Toolbar there is a CSS drop down. Select Use Border Box Model. This might do it. It got rid of the horizontal scrool bar for the 2 pages I tried it with on the MSDN site. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 11:21:00 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:21:00 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Determine current position in Word In-Reply-To: <200508251222.j7PCMhR26169@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200508251222.j7PCMhR26169@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: On 25/08/05, Arthur Fuller wrote: > This reply tipped me off and ended up simplifying my code. Since I already > had the document open I did not need the additional declares, and since I > was already inside a With Bookmarks block, I pared your suggestion down to > this: > .Item("AdditionalInformationTable").Range.InsertFile > (CurrentRTFFile) > And it is working! Lovely! Thanks! > But since I live by the theory, If it works, break it, an additional > question: How can I provide a folder name for the user when she saves the > file? The system cannot predict what the user will choose to call the file, > but can predict where she wants to store it. I'm pretty sure there is, but damned if I can figure it out right now. I've looked at a bunch of different things, and none of them seem to do it. I'll keep trying and let you know if I find anything. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 11:27:52 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:27:52 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Determine current position in Word In-Reply-To: References: <200508251222.j7PCMhR26169@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: On 26/08/05, Bryan Carbonnell wrote: > On 25/08/05, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > This reply tipped me off and ended up simplifying my code. Since I already > > had the document open I did not need the additional declares, and since I > > was already inside a With Bookmarks block, I pared your suggestion down to > > this: > > .Item("AdditionalInformationTable").Range.InsertFile > > (CurrentRTFFile) > > And it is working! Lovely! Thanks! > > But since I live by the theory, If it works, break it, an additional > > question: How can I provide a folder name for the user when she saves the > > file? The system cannot predict what the user will choose to call the file, > > but can predict where she wants to store it. > > I'm pretty sure there is, but damned if I can figure it out right now. > I've looked at a bunch of different things, and none of them seem to > do it. > > I'll keep trying and let you know if I find anything. DOH!!! 3 minutes later.... Try this: With Word.Application.Dialogs(wdDialogFileSaveAs) .Name = "c:\FullPath\" ' .Show ' This will just show the dialog and you can retreive ' the full path and do the save via code '.Execute ' This will execute the save once the user click OK End With You may need to trap for errors in both cases if the user clicks Cancel. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From tinanfields at torchlake.com Fri Aug 26 12:14:03 2005 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 13:14:03 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] hidden files? References: Message-ID: <430F4DDB.80502@torchlake.com> Revealing my own ignorance here - what is Cacls? Tina Billy Pang wrote: > John: > thanks for the tip. I used Cacls to give myself permission to see the > system volum information folder and bingo there are all the files that > add up to 1.5gb. > Billy > > >> From: "John Bartow" >> Reply-To: Discussion of Hardware and Software >> issues >> To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software >> issues'" >> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] hidden files? >> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:12:30 -0500 >> >> Probably the room used by System Restore points. I can't recal off >> the top >> of my head what you have to do to see those files but it is more than >> just >> "view hidden and system files" >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Billy Pang >> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:38 PM >> To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [dba-Tech] hidden files? >> >> Hello: >> >> windows xp home edition >> >> one of the basic partitions of my computer reports 1.5GB of used >> space but >> when I open up that partition, there are no files there (except for the >> system folders RECYCLER and System Volume Information; there is >> nothing in >> the recycler folder but I can't open the System Volume Information >> folder). >> >> any thoughts? I am thinking of deleting this partition but am having >> seconds thoughts. >> >> thanks in advance >> >> Billy >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jon at tydda.plus.com Fri Aug 26 12:35:26 2005 From: jon at tydda.plus.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 18:35:26 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray In-Reply-To: AAAAABsJvBKnNblJpukl/8GF+DQkTyQA Message-ID: <200508261735.j7QHZRR18876@databaseadvisors.com> When you say "without a tray", do you mean it's just a slot that the cd fits into? I have one of those on my old pc... Mine still has the little hole for a paper clip to go into, there also one on the back of the drive. Although how that's supposed to be easily accessible I've yet to figure out. Zip drives do that too... One on the front, one on the back, and one on the side. Take it out and have a good look around it is my advice :-) Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 26 August 2005 15:15 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray Had a fellow call and ask if I could get his "new" computer past a password for him that he didn't know. He bought this PC at an estate sale and didn't know any passwords. After a couple of questions I determined it was the bios password and so that was a quick fix but since he had to drop it off I'd check it over for him while I was at it. Poor dude just bought a Compaq Presario with a Pentium (1), 32MB of RAM, 6GB HD and WIndows 95. The things is built like a tank though and runs quite well. My problem is that it has a CD Drive without a tray and the bugger won't cough up one of my CDs! It worked with other CDs before this one. Of course with a tray system they have the little hole where you can manually open the tray. But I have no idea how to manually eject this thing. Any Ideas? John B. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This email has been verified as Virus free Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net From tuxedo_man at hotmail.com Fri Aug 26 13:43:57 2005 From: tuxedo_man at hotmail.com (Billy Pang) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 18:43:57 +0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] hidden files? In-Reply-To: <430F4DDB.80502@torchlake.com> Message-ID: a program you run to give (or revoke) a user certain permission(s) for certain files/folder(s) on a windows xp home os. >From: Tina Norris Fields >Reply-To: Discussion of Hardware and Software >issues >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] hidden files? >Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 13:14:03 -0400 > >Revealing my own ignorance here - what is Cacls? >Tina > >Billy Pang wrote: > >>John: >>thanks for the tip. I used Cacls to give myself permission to see the >>system volum information folder and bingo there are all the files that add >>up to 1.5gb. >>Billy >> >> >>>From: "John Bartow" >>>Reply-To: Discussion of Hardware and Software >>>issues >>>To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software >>>issues'" >>>Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] hidden files? >>>Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:12:30 -0500 >>> >>>Probably the room used by System Restore points. I can't recal off the >>>top >>>of my head what you have to do to see those files but it is more than >>>just >>>"view hidden and system files" >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Billy Pang >>>Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:38 PM >>>To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com >>>Subject: [dba-Tech] hidden files? >>> >>>Hello: >>> >>>windows xp home edition >>> >>>one of the basic partitions of my computer reports 1.5GB of used space >>>but >>>when I open up that partition, there are no files there (except for the >>>system folders RECYCLER and System Volume Information; there is nothing >>>in >>>the recycler folder but I can't open the System Volume Information >>>folder). >>> >>>any thoughts? I am thinking of deleting this partition but am having >>>seconds thoughts. >>> >>>thanks in advance >>> >>>Billy >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>dba-Tech mailing list >>>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>dba-Tech mailing list >>>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-Tech mailing list >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tuxedo_man at hotmail.com Fri Aug 26 14:20:48 2005 From: tuxedo_man at hotmail.com (Billy Pang) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 19:20:48 +0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: this three doors problem reminds me of this year's NHL (National Hockey League) entry draft. Every year, an entry draft is held for the 30 teams to draft young players for their team. Every player is ranked and this year, the top ranked player (Sydney Crosby) is considered the next "great one". The team who gets first pick at the entry draft will pick Mr. Crosby for sure (in a sense, it would be like winning the lottery). Ok, long story short, they decided to use the "ping pong" method of determining which teams gets to go first. every team either gets one, two or three ping pong balls in the pool. there are 30 teams. Because the first ping pong ball selected gets first pick in the entry draft, the teams with three ping pong balls have a greater chance of getting the coveted first pick than the other teams with only two or one ping pong ball. I watched the draft live as it took place. To increase drama, they select the ping pong balls behind closed doors to determine the order of the thiry teams; then they come out and reveal the order in reverse (starting with 30, 29, 28, etc...); however, i realized that if they pick the ping pong balls in reverse order (ie. first ball they picked is 30th pick), the teams with three ping pong balls would no longer be favorites because they have a greater chance of being selected. In a sense, this situation is similiar but not exactly the same as the three doors problem. in the beginning, when you ave three doors to choose from, you have 33.3% of winning or 66.7% of losing. you either win or don't win, there is no in-between. therefore if you pick door A, you have 33% of winning. another of way saying it is, if you don't pick door A, you have 66.7% of winning (note the difference between this sentence and first sentence of this paragraph). yes, if you picture the other two doors as a group of doors and the host reveals to you that one of those doors does not have the winning prize, the group of doors still has 66.7% of winning but now the host has taken out a door in question for you and therefore the other door has 66.7% chance of winning (since the door just opened by the host has 0% chance of winning; 0% + 66.7% = 66.7%) I'm not sure if i am explaining it correctly. I can see reasons for both why you should swap and why you should not swap. the difference lies in on the level where you calculate the probabililty of winning. Billy >From: "Scott Marcus" >Reply-To: Discussion of Hardware and Software >issues >To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software >issues" >Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:02:59 -0400 > >John, > >The host's intentions have nothing to do with the math. The fact is that >the host revealed a non-winning door. Therefore your odds of winning are >2/3 if you switch. > >Scott Marcus >IT Programmer >TSS Technologies Inc. >www.tss.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >Colby >Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:52 AM >To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > >It does indeed state that, what it does NOT state is that the host >INTENTIONALLY PICKED a non-winning door. > > >I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: > > >there are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the other >two >are a dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. > > >I invite you to select a door. You choose any one of the three: call it >x. > > >I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would have >won a >dead catfish. > >That is the original message, word for word, as stated in Arthur's >email. > >The last sentence is the crux of the matter... > > >I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would have >won a >dead catfish. > >Had he said: > >"I intentionally pick a door that is a loser and say..." > >THEN the solution being discussed is indeed valid. It his use of the >knowledge he has that is the issue. > >If the host flips a coin, and uses the result of the coin toss to pick >one >of the other doors, then you are back to 50/50. He is not telling you >anything, he is just eliminating a door, that just happens to be a >loser. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus >Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:36 AM >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > >John, > >The problem was stated originally that the host revealed a non-winning >door. > >Scott Marcus >IT Programmer >TSS Technologies Inc. >www.tss.com >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Aug 26 14:23:03 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 14:23:03 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray In-Reply-To: <200508261735.j7QHZRR18876@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200508261923.j7QJN7R12463@databaseadvisors.com> Looks like I'm going to have to take it out as I can't find an answer for another method. This is one of the old proprietary compaqs so it will be interesting... -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 12:35 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray When you say "without a tray", do you mean it's just a slot that the cd fits into? I have one of those on my old pc... Mine still has the little hole for a paper clip to go into, there also one on the back of the drive. Although how that's supposed to be easily accessible I've yet to figure out. Zip drives do that too... One on the front, one on the back, and one on the side. Take it out and have a good look around it is my advice :-) Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 26 August 2005 15:15 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray Had a fellow call and ask if I could get his "new" computer past a password for him that he didn't know. He bought this PC at an estate sale and didn't know any passwords. After a couple of questions I determined it was the bios password and so that was a quick fix but since he had to drop it off I'd check it over for him while I was at it. Poor dude just bought a Compaq Presario with a Pentium (1), 32MB of RAM, 6GB HD and WIndows 95. The things is built like a tank though and runs quite well. My problem is that it has a CD Drive without a tray and the bugger won't cough up one of my CDs! It worked with other CDs before this one. Of course with a tray system they have the little hole where you can manually open the tray. But I have no idea how to manually eject this thing. Any Ideas? John B. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This email has been verified as Virus free Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jon at tydda.plus.com Fri Aug 26 15:30:39 2005 From: jon at tydda.plus.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 21:30:39 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray In-Reply-To: AAAAABsJvBKnNblJpukl/8GF+DRkWSQA Message-ID: <200508262030.j7QKUkR28055@databaseadvisors.com> No word of a lie here, a friend of mine once opened a Compaq server to replace the memory on it, and found a rubber chicken inside the chassis. The server had never been opened by anyone at the company he was with, as the sticker seals were intact, and he only did it once the warranty had run out... He couldn't believe it... I have a photo somewhere, I'll see if I can find it and post it somewhere for you to look at. Funniest thing we ever saw in a computer :-) Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 26 August 2005 20:23 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray Looks like I'm going to have to take it out as I can't find an answer for another method. This is one of the old proprietary compaqs so it will be interesting... -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 12:35 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray When you say "without a tray", do you mean it's just a slot that the cd fits into? I have one of those on my old pc... Mine still has the little hole for a paper clip to go into, there also one on the back of the drive. Although how that's supposed to be easily accessible I've yet to figure out. Zip drives do that too... One on the front, one on the back, and one on the side. Take it out and have a good look around it is my advice :-) Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 26 August 2005 15:15 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray Had a fellow call and ask if I could get his "new" computer past a password for him that he didn't know. He bought this PC at an estate sale and didn't know any passwords. After a couple of questions I determined it was the bios password and so that was a quick fix but since he had to drop it off I'd check it over for him while I was at it. Poor dude just bought a Compaq Presario with a Pentium (1), 32MB of RAM, 6GB HD and WIndows 95. The things is built like a tank though and runs quite well. My problem is that it has a CD Drive without a tray and the bugger won't cough up one of my CDs! It worked with other CDs before this one. Of course with a tray system they have the little hole where you can manually open the tray. But I have no idea how to manually eject this thing. Any Ideas? John B. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This email has been verified as Virus free Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This email has been verified as Virus free Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Aug 26 16:56:16 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 14:56:16 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray References: <200508261923.j7QJN7R12463@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <430F9000.8000001@shaw.ca> Waaaaait. Try this to eject any removable media cd's or zips Steve Gibson Wizmo written in assembler should work on win95 http://grc.com/wizmo/wizmo.htm open={drive:} ? open or eject specific removable drive media. On systems with multiple CDROM or other removable drives (e.g. Iomega Zip and Jaz) this opens or ejects the media from the specified drive. Example: wizmo.exe open=w: close={drive:} ? close or load specific removable drive media. Example: wizmo close=r: There might be an explanation on HP site too John Bartow wrote: >Looks like I'm going to have to take it out as I can't find an answer for >another method. This is one of the old proprietary compaqs so it will be >interesting... > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda >Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 12:35 PM >To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray > >When you say "without a tray", do you mean it's just a slot that the cd fits >into? I have one of those on my old pc... Mine still has the little hole for >a paper clip to go into, there also one on the back of the drive. Although >how that's supposed to be easily accessible I've yet to figure out. Zip >drives do that too... One on the front, one on the back, and one on the >side. Take it out and have a good look around it is my advice :-) > > >Jon > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow >Sent: 26 August 2005 15:15 >To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >Subject: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray > >Had a fellow call and ask if I could get his "new" computer past a password >for him that he didn't know. He bought this PC at an estate sale and didn't >know any passwords. > >After a couple of questions I determined it was the bios password and so >that was a quick fix but since he had to drop it off I'd check it over for >him while I was at it. > >Poor dude just bought a Compaq Presario with a Pentium (1), 32MB of RAM, 6GB >HD and WIndows 95. The things is built like a tank though and runs quite >well. > >My problem is that it has a CD Drive without a tray and the bugger won't >cough up one of my CDs! It worked with other CDs before this one. Of course >with a tray system they have the little hole where you can manually open the >tray. But I have no idea how to manually eject this thing. Any Ideas? > >John B. >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >This email has been verified as Virus free Virus Protection and more >available at http://www.plus.net > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 26 18:57:56 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 19:57:56 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200508262357.j7QNvtR16295@databaseadvisors.com> You missed the crucial element of the problem, John. The Host knows what is behind all 3 doors, and thus NEVER removes the winning door. I attempted to make this clear in the presentation of the problem, and I obviously failed to do so. My apologies. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: August 26, 2005 9:56 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem John, The fact remains that when you picked the door, you had a 1/3 chance of being correct. If the host removes a door (no matter which because if the host removes the winning door your chance is 0%), the host just increased your chances to being 2/3 correct. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:36 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem And it is exactly because of the "intentionally and knowingly taking away the non-winning door" that the logic works. If the host "just picks a door" (which wasn't apparent from the original post) and the door "just happens to be not the prize", then the problem changes. By the fact that that the host had knowledge of and intentionally chose a door with no prize, the problem does change, and I understand the answer. By the way, the way you just worded it it still wouldn't make a difference. Only if you knowingly took away doors that you knew did not have a prize would your answer be correct. If you just randomly chose which doors to eliminate then the problem is back to 50/50 because in fact, you may very well have eliminated the prize as well (in fact probably did). >I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would have won a dead catfish. No where does that imply that he intentionally chose a door with no prize, he just opened (picked at random) a remaining door, looked at the contents, and announced the contents of that door. Not that I would have gotten the answer anyway, but I do understand that by his using his knowledge to pick a door with no prize he affected the outcome. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:17 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem John, The problem with you logic is as follows... If there were 1,000,000 doors of which only 1 had the prize and I took away all doors except yours and another door, would you then switch? By your logic, your chance is 50/50. Sorry, but I will switch every time. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:44 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem LOL, but the answer is screwy. Now take the example where TWO people are choosing doors simultaneously. The third door is shown to NOT contain the prize. Both people should swap by the logic of the puzzle, but one of them is still going to lose and the other win. Each person (door) has a 50% probability of winning. Which one will win? There is no way to predict the answer, each person has a 50% probability of winning the prize. The logic SOUNDS good but is screwy. Each door has a 1 in 3 chance of being a winner. Eliminate one door and each door has a 1 in 2 chance of being a winner. It matters not whether the third door is eliminated during the game or before the game starts. And Arthur, while your door just increased from 1 in 3 to 1 in 2, so did the other door. It matters not whether you switch or whether you stay, you have a 50/50 chance of winning. There is no particular reason to switch, but you don't affect your odds in the slightest by switching. Pick a door (of the two remaining), any door, and you have a 50/50 chance. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:20 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem On 25 Aug 2005 at 20:04, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I am the host of a TV program and you are the guest. This is the deal: > there are 3 doors. Behind one of them is $100 million. Behind the > other two are a dead catfish and a dead pickerel respectively. I > invite you to select a door. You choose any one of the three: call it > x I open another door, and say, Had you selected door y, you would > have won a dead catfish. Now, would you like to stick with your > original choice or switch to the other door? Does it matter? If not, > why not? If so, why so? There is a clear answer to this problem. Who > is going to be the first to come up with it? Arthur > > Ah, the good old Monty Hall puzzle. Strictly speaking, you need to qualify it by saying "I open another door which I know contains a dead fish and show you the contents" If you could open the money door by accident, it is a different situation. Anyhoo, the answers is: Yes it matters, you should swap. I won't give the reason now 'cause it's a spoiler. I know some peole will not agree with me and will go to great lengths to explain why I am wrong :-) -- Stuart _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 26 18:59:39 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 19:59:39 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray In-Reply-To: <200508261414.j7QEErR32623@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200508262359.j7QNxbR16478@databaseadvisors.com> Usually there is a pinhole into which you can shove a pin and this forces Eject. I am not familiar with this particular config so it might have one, but I have 3 CDs and DVDs here and they all have it. A. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: August 26, 2005 10:15 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray Had a fellow call and ask if I could get his "new" computer past a password for him that he didn't know. He bought this PC at an estate sale and didn't know any passwords. After a couple of questions I determined it was the bios password and so that was a quick fix but since he had to drop it off I'd check it over for him while I was at it. Poor dude just bought a Compaq Presario with a Pentium (1), 32MB of RAM, 6GB HD and WIndows 95. The things is built like a tank though and runs quite well. My problem is that it has a CD Drive without a tray and the bugger won't cough up one of my CDs! It worked with other CDs before this one. Of course with a tray system they have the little hole where you can manually open the tray. But I have no idea how to manually eject this thing. Any Ideas? John B. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 26 19:02:32 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:02:32 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <01e801c5aa4c$abfb3290$0400a8c0@m2533> Message-ID: <200508270002.j7R02UR16993@databaseadvisors.com> Let us put it gently, Lembit. I would enjoy playing backgammon with you for $100 a point. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik Sent: August 26, 2005 10:45 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem which leaves one winning and one non-winning door and since you do not know which one the winning door is, you have a 1 out of 2 chance. The host has simply changed the game from 1 out of 3 to 1 out of two the new situation is not dependent on your previous choice. how could your making a choice at the beginning change the situation after the 3rd door was removed? Lembit From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Aug 26 19:06:10 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 10:06:10 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <43103B12.24378.CD383A6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 26 Aug 2005 at 11:02, Scott Marcus wrote: > John, > > The host's intentions have nothing to do with the math. The fact is that > the host revealed a non-winning door. Therefore your odds of winning are > 2/3 if you switch. > The host's intentions are critical. If he only ever opens a second door when you are on a winner, your can only win by sticking. If he only ever opens a second door when you are on a loser, you can only win by switching. If he always opens a second door or always does so when you are wearing brown shoes,or have blue eyes or whatever, you will win 2 out of 3 times by switching. -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Aug 26 19:18:34 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 10:18:34 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43103DFA.30387.CDEDEE0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 26 Aug 2005 at 19:20, Billy Pang wrote: > first ping pong ball selected gets first pick in the entry draft, the teams > with three ping pong balls have a greater chance of getting the coveted > first pick than the other teams with only two or one ping pong ball. I > watched the draft live as it took place. To increase drama, they select the > ping pong balls behind closed doors to determine the order of the thiry > teams; then they come out and reveal the order in reverse (starting with 30, > 29, 28, etc...); however, i realized that if they pick the ping pong balls > in reverse order (ie. first ball they picked is 30th pick), the teams with > three ping pong balls would no longer be favorites because they have a > greater chance of being selected. They are still favourites. A team with three balls still has two balls in the running for 1st even if one of their balls comes up as 30th. They are still better off than a team with only one ball. Take it to it's logical conclusion. Imagine you get down to the "last" three picks (3rd,2nd,1st) and have two teams left - one with two balls and one with one ball. How often will the team with one ball end up with the 1st draft and how ofter will the team with two balls get him? -- Stuart From john at winhaven.net Fri Aug 26 19:35:09 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 19:35:09 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray In-Reply-To: <430F9000.8000001@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <200508270035.j7R0ZAR25096@databaseadvisors.com> I'll give 'er a try -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Waaaaait. Try this to eject any removable media cd's or zips Steve Gibson Wizmo written in assembler should work on win95 http://grc.com/wizmo/wizmo.htm open={drive:} - open or eject specific removable drive media. On systems with multiple CDROM or other removable drives (e.g. Iomega Zip and Jaz) this opens or ejects the media from the specified drive. Example: wizmo.exe open=w: close={drive:} - close or load specific removable drive media. Example: wizmo close=r: There might be an explanation on HP site too From john at winhaven.net Fri Aug 26 19:35:09 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 19:35:09 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray In-Reply-To: <200508262359.j7QNxbR16478@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200508270035.j7R0ZAR25099@databaseadvisors.com> No hole in this one. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Usually there is a pinhole into which you can shove a pin and this forces Eject. I am not familiar with this particular config so it might have one, but I have 3 CDs and DVDs here and they all have it. A. From john at winhaven.net Fri Aug 26 19:35:09 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 19:35:09 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray In-Reply-To: <200508262030.j7QKUkR28055@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200508270035.j7R0ZCR25107@databaseadvisors.com> That'd be cool -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda I have a photo somewhere, I'll see if I can find it and post it somewhere for you to look at. Funniest thing we ever saw in a computer :-) From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 26 19:52:03 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:52:03 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <020d01c5aa52$2ec1f330$0400a8c0@m2533> Message-ID: <200508270052.j7R0q1R28952@databaseadvisors.com> You have just changed the game entirely, Lembit, and I repeat my former invitation. Should you care to risk some dollars or Euros in the game of backgammon, I would love to play. Your analysis of this problem suggests that if we play 20 hours, I will make some serious money. So. Now that I have switched the topic to backgammon, I will present the simplest possible problem in backgammon. In case you do not play the game, there is an object called the doubling cube which entitles both players to double the stakes (but only when it is their turn and before they roll the dice. If the cube is at 1 then a game is worth 1 unit (Euro, dollar, whatever). Should the loser be gammoned, then 2 units; backgammoned then 3 units. A double is like a raise in poker. If I do not accept the double then I fold and you win the game. If on the other hand I do accept the double, then I own the cube and you cannot double -- only I can. (This rule does not play into the following problem, but I thought that I should explain the rules anyway.) One more important rule (important for this problem, anyway). Should a player roll any double such as 4-4, that means the player can move 4 moves of 4. In other words, if I roll 1-1, I em entitled to move any checker one point four times: that could be one checker four points or four checkers one point each or two checkers two points each or 1 checker one point and another checker three points. We are in the final rolls of the game. Let us call you player A and me player B. A and B both have 2 checkers remaining. A has checkers on points two and three. B has checkers on points one and two. It is A's move. Given the foregoing, this problem can be reduced to, if A rolls a one, he loses (because any possible roll takes both of B's checkers off, so if B gets a chance, he wins). 1. Should A double? 2. Much more interesting: should B accept the double? (i.e. play on for two points). In this situation, the facts are: a) number of possible rolls = 36 (6 sides * 6 sides) b) the 36 possible rolls break down into 6 doubles (i.e. 1-1) - each of which can occur exactly once, plus 15 pairs of disparate rolls (x-y). To visualise this, imagine that one die is red and the other green. Therefore you could roll 2-1 in two ways: Red 1 green 2 or green 2 red 1. As for the doubles, there is only one possible way to roll 1-1: red 1 green 1. So the chances of rolling any double are precisely 1 over 36. However, the chances of rolling a 1 are different, since any roll containing a 1 counts. c) The number of rolls containing a 1 is 11 out of 36, approximately 30.55 percent. (The five pairs 1-2 1-3 1-4 1-5 1-6, plus 1-1, = 11.) At this point, I will raise a conjecture which some of you may dispute. In my opinion there is only one sensible way to attack this problem, which is to assume the 'multiple-universes' strategy. That is, I am playing 36 games at once, and in each I get one unique occurrence of the dice. To put it another way, I am playing 36 games at once, and subtracting the losses from the wins in each universe... the result dictating what I choose to do in THIS universe. I am concerned with winning the money. I am aware that we will play lots of games. I am convinced that if I make the correct (arithmetically correct) play in most of the games, I will come out a winner. This is the principle upon which casinos are founded, and it seems to work for them. The fact that one player in a million puts one token in and wins millions is Good Advertising, not a problem. Back to the problems as expressed above: Problem 1 reduces to, How many ways does A fail? The answer, as illustrated above, is 11 out of 36. Therefore A should clearly double the bet, since he wins about 2 in 3 games. So if the stake is $100 he should eagerly double. Problem 2 is more interesting. In the 36 virtual games, if B folds then A wins 36 points ($3600). On the other hand, if B accepts the double and the game continues, then A wins 25 games worth 2 points each but B wins 11 games worth 2 points each... 50 - 22 = $2800 lost -- B would have lost $3600 had he folded 36 times. This difference is called the per-game equity. By folding, B throws 8 over 36 per game, even though he has only a 31% chance of winning. By quitting, B is throwing money away. By accepting the double, B has a much greater chance of losing less money. This is not to say that B will be a winner. This problem is not about who wins. It is about How to lose less money. This is the simplest possible problem in backgammon analysis. It gets more complex rapidly. I am by no means a backgammon expert but I have played in several world championships and hundreds of other tournaments. I am quite eager to have my arithmetic defeated. I might just learn something! I will venture this. What actually happens in one game is irrelevant. It is all about playing LOTS of games. I have played backgammon against serious competition for 3 days without sleep, at $100 US a point. Stamina plays a part. Logic plays a part. Bluffing plays a part. At the end of the day, all you can rely on is arithmetic, IMO. If the arithmetic says, Accept the double, then Accept the double -- does not matter how good or bad your opponent is, or how much money you are ahead or behind... all that is noise as opposed to signal. The signal is the arithmetic correctness of your analysis. It is quite possible that only 2 rolls in 36 will save the ass of your opponent -- and if you double and he accepts and then rolls one of those two numbers, such is life. Do not whine, do not belly-ache... accept that the correct play was not the one that worked in this actual universe. So what. In a game such as backgammon or poker or even the 3-doors problem, I suggest that we must not focus on any particular universe. Instead we must use a multi-universe algorithm and calculate the number of universes in which we win. Subtract the multi-universe wins from the losses, add the results across universes, and the result tells you what to do. A, -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik Sent: August 26, 2005 11:24 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem I see what you mean, but thing is that you have changed the rules during the game. now assume after you revealed the one non-winning door a third person comes in what are his chances to select the winning door from the two which are left over? Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Marcus" To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 5:00 PM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > When you originally picked the door, you had a 1/3 chance that the door > was the winning door. If the host reveals a non-winning door that isn't > the door you picked, that door you picked still has only a 1/3 chance of > being correct. > > Lembit, lets play a game. Pick a number between 1 and 1,000,000. Only > one number will be a winning number. After you pick your number, I'm > gonna reveal 999,998 doors as non-winning doors so that only your door > and one other door remains (of which one is the winning door). Are your > chances still 50/50? > > So really pick a number. I'll have a third party monitor the winning > number so that no cheating can be involved. We'll do this 1000 times and > I bet you that if you switch doors that you will win way more than 50% > of the time (it will be very close to if not 100% of the time). > > Scott Marcus > IT Programmer > TSS Technologies Inc. > www.tss.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit > Soobik > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:45 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > which leaves one winning and one non-winning door > and since you do not know which one the winning door is, > you have a 1 out of 2 chance. > > The host has simply changed the game from 1 out of 3 to 1 out of two > the new situation is not dependent on your previous choice. > > how could your making a choice at the beginning change the situation > after the > 3rd door was removed? > > Lembit > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Marcus" > To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 4:36 PM > Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > >> John, >> >> The problem was stated originally that the host revealed a non-winning >> door. >> >> Scott Marcus >> IT Programmer >> TSS Technologies Inc. >> www.tss.com >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: > 25.08.2005 >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: 25.08.2005 > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 26 19:53:12 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:53:12 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200508270053.j7R0r9R29830@databaseadvisors.com> LOL! Door Two is a LOSER. Guest: I choose Door Two. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: August 26, 2005 11:56 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem Lembit, It's still select 1 out of 3 the host just revealed a non-winning door. Who in their right mind would pick that door. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 11:44 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem ok, but you changed the whole game. first game was select one out of 3 second game is select one out of two ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Marcus" To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 5:33 PM Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >I have not changed the rules. In the original case your winning > percentage out of 1000 picks would be close to 66.66666...% > > Introducing the second person and their chances depends on if they have > prior knowledge. > > Scott Marcus > IT Programmer > TSS Technologies Inc. > www.tss.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit > Soobik > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 11:24 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > I see what you mean, but thing is that you have changed the rules during > the > game. > now assume after you revealed the one non-winning door > a third person comes in > what are his chances to select the winning door from the two which are > left > over? > > Lembit > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Marcus" > To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 5:00 PM > Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem > > >> When you originally picked the door, you had a 1/3 chance that the > door >> was the winning door. If the host reveals a non-winning door that > isn't >> the door you picked, that door you picked still has only a 1/3 chance > of >> being correct. >> >> Lembit, lets play a game. Pick a number between 1 and 1,000,000. Only >> one number will be a winning number. After you pick your number, I'm >> gonna reveal 999,998 doors as non-winning doors so that only your door >> and one other door remains (of which one is the winning door). Are > your >> chances still 50/50? >> >> So really pick a number. I'll have a third party monitor the winning >> number so that no cheating can be involved. We'll do this 1000 times > and >> I bet you that if you switch doors that you will win way more than 50% >> of the time (it will be very close to if not 100% of the time). >> >> Scott Marcus >> IT Programmer >> TSS Technologies Inc. >> www.tss.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit >> Soobik >> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:45 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >> >> which leaves one winning and one non-winning door >> and since you do not know which one the winning door is, >> you have a 1 out of 2 chance. >> >> The host has simply changed the game from 1 out of 3 to 1 out of two >> the new situation is not dependent on your previous choice. >> >> how could your making a choice at the beginning change the situation >> after the >> 3rd door was removed? >> >> Lembit >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott Marcus" >> To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" >> >> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 4:36 PM >> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >> >> >>> John, >>> >>> The problem was stated originally that the host revealed a > non-winning >>> door. >>> >>> Scott Marcus >>> IT Programmer >>> TSS Technologies Inc. >>> www.tss.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: >> 25.08.2005 >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: > 25.08.2005 >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: 25.08.2005 > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Fri Aug 26 19:53:32 2005 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 17:53:32 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] I reinstalled (was No Icons) In-Reply-To: <003b01c5a89f$9c410360$0207a8c0@bill> Message-ID: <20050826175335.F35933B8@dm17.mta.everyone.net> Well, I finally decided I couldn't spend any more time figuring out how to "fix" the problem. Instead I reinstalled W2k. I did it like an "update" instead of a clean install, so most of my associations remained (like Word Perfect, Word, WinZip, etc). I did have to reinstall the driver for my wireless, but that wasn't time consuming. Almost everything is working right now, except ZA. I'm using the free version, and downloaded/updated the most recent version. I've rebooted a couple times and am still getting "system error" and that true vector security is not running. I set it to not load automatically, and an rebooting now to see what happens. Got a few more things to try before I need help with that. Thanks for the various suggestions. I've got a copy of XP coming, and will be installing that next week, but at least in the meantime my husband can get back to surfing eBay. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 26 19:55:48 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:55:48 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <43103B12.24378.CD383A6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <200508270055.j7R0tjR30150@databaseadvisors.com> The host ALWAYS opens a failure door. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: August 26, 2005 8:06 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem On 26 Aug 2005 at 11:02, Scott Marcus wrote: > John, > > The host's intentions have nothing to do with the math. The fact is that > the host revealed a non-winning door. Therefore your odds of winning are > 2/3 if you switch. > The host's intentions are critical. If he only ever opens a second door when you are on a winner, your can only win by sticking. If he only ever opens a second door when you are on a loser, you can only win by switching. If he always opens a second door or always does so when you are wearing brown shoes,or have blue eyes or whatever, you will win 2 out of 3 times by switching. -- Stuart _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tuxedo_man at hotmail.com Sat Aug 27 03:25:29 2005 From: tuxedo_man at hotmail.com (Billy Pang) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 08:25:29 +0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <43103DFA.30387.CDEDEE0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I think you misunderstood the NHL ping pong entry draft; I didn't explain it too clearly in my first attempt. the one thing I forgot to mention is that once a team is selected, all of the remaining ping pong balls of the team are removed from the pool. this way, every team is represented only once in the top 30 entry draft positions. therefore, in the reverse selection scenario, if we are down to the last two teams, if one team has three ping pong balls and the other has one ping pong ball, the team with only one ping pong ball is the favorite because that team has less chance of being selected for the second pick. Billy >From: "Stuart McLachlan" >Reply-To: Discussion of Hardware and Software >issues >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > >Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 10:18:34 +1000 > >On 26 Aug 2005 at 19:20, Billy Pang wrote: > > > first ping pong ball selected gets first pick in the entry draft, the >teams > > with three ping pong balls have a greater chance of getting the coveted > > first pick than the other teams with only two or one ping pong ball. I > > watched the draft live as it took place. To increase drama, they select >the > > ping pong balls behind closed doors to determine the order of the thiry > > teams; then they come out and reveal the order in reverse (starting with >30, > > 29, 28, etc...); however, i realized that if they pick the ping pong >balls > > in reverse order (ie. first ball they picked is 30th pick), the teams >with > > three ping pong balls would no longer be favorites because they have a > > greater chance of being selected. > > They are still favourites. A team with three balls still has two balls >in >the running for 1st even if one of their balls comes up as 30th. They are >still better off than a team with only one ball. > >Take it to it's logical conclusion. Imagine you get down to the "last" >three picks (3rd,2nd,1st) and have two teams left - one with two balls >and one with one ball. How often will the team with one ball end up with >the 1st draft and how ofter will the team with two balls get him? > >-- >Stuart > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Aug 27 08:57:00 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 23:57:00 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: References: <43103DFA.30387.CDEDEE0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4310FDCC.24853.FCC2B9E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 27 Aug 2005 at 8:25, Billy Pang wrote: > I think you misunderstood the NHL ping pong entry draft; I didn't explain it > too clearly in my first attempt. the one thing I forgot to mention is that > once a team is selected, all of the remaining ping pong balls of the team > are removed from the pool. And that's the one critical fact that changes the logic completely Are you sure you don't work for some of my clients? They generally leave out the one critical fact when explaining their problems too -- Stuart From tuxedo_man at hotmail.com Sat Aug 27 12:29:46 2005 From: tuxedo_man at hotmail.com (Billy Pang) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:29:46 +0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem In-Reply-To: <4310FDCC.24853.FCC2B9E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: lol, giving you all the critical facts all at once would be too easy for you ;) >From: "Stuart McLachlan" >Reply-To: Discussion of Hardware and Software >issues >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > >Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] The Three Doors Problem >Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 23:57:00 +1000 > >On 27 Aug 2005 at 8:25, Billy Pang wrote: > > > I think you misunderstood the NHL ping pong entry draft; I didn't >explain it > > too clearly in my first attempt. the one thing I forgot to mention is >that > > once a team is selected, all of the remaining ping pong balls of the >team > > are removed from the pool. > >And that's the one critical fact that changes the logic completely > >Are you sure you don't work for some of my clients? They generally leave >out the one critical fact when explaining their problems too > >-- >Stuart > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat Aug 27 14:33:09 2005 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 15:33:09 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] DWL-G520 Adapter - Win98 - Won't Connect Message-ID: <4310BFF5.3060700@torchlake.com> I know someone on this list can help me. I am using wireless broadband for my internet connection. Setting up the XP machines was a snap. Setting up the Win98SE machines, on the other hand, has been a bear each time. Now I have one I can't get to even connect. System is Win98SE - Pentium II - 266MHz - 160Mb RAM - I forget how many Gb HD, think it's 6. It's an old machine, I know - temporarily assigned to my grandson until we get his "real" computer (for college). I need to get it connected to the internet. I've installed the DWL-G520 AirPlusXtremeG card. I've downloaded and installed the updated drivers for Win98SE. The hardware wizard finds it and sets it up. The adapter is in the device manager, shows as working correctly. I put the appropriate information in the configuration screen - name of network, authentication, encryption, WEP key, click Apply to save the settings. But the site survey fails to find the network. And, when I return to the configuration screen my settings are gone. I've messed around with the network protocols and adapters screen - I think I have them right - they pretty much match the settings on the Win98SE machine that IS connecting. However, I never - make that NEVER - get a connection. What is the engineer's definition of Hell? A room full of the best, most modern machines, in perfect condition - that won't work! I have found some articles on the net that I will hold in my hot little hands when I next attack this machine. But, in the meantime, I thought I'd ask the gurus on this list for some suggestions. Go ahead and start at the beginning. I am willing to retrace any and all of my working process. I still know so little about networking I feel totally ignorant. Thanks for any assistance you can give. Tina From john at winhaven.net Sun Aug 28 09:51:16 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 09:51:16 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] DWL-G520 Adapter - Win98 - Won't Connect In-Reply-To: <4310BFF5.3060700@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <200508281451.j7SEpOR07508@databaseadvisors.com> Tina, I suggest you start simple. Turn off the security (authentication, encryption, WEP key, MAC Filter, enable the SSD Broadcast) and anything else that cold be a potential problem towards joining the network and see if you get a signal. Once you get the Access Point on your site survey then start applying the security incrementally. If the access point doesn't show after turning off the security then it may also be the DWL-G520 Adapter. Windows may show it as working, that doesn't always mean it is. HTH John B. PS: If your worried about hackers for the time it takes to work through this then disable the network on the other PCs. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 2:33 PM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-Tech] DWL-G520 Adapter - Win98 - Won't Connect I know someone on this list can help me. I am using wireless broadband for my internet connection. Setting up the XP machines was a snap. Setting up the Win98SE machines, on the other hand, has been a bear each time. Now I have one I can't get to even connect. System is Win98SE - Pentium II - 266MHz - 160Mb RAM - I forget how many Gb HD, think it's 6. It's an old machine, I know - temporarily assigned to my grandson until we get his "real" computer (for college). I need to get it connected to the internet. I've installed the to show G card. I've downloaded and installed the updated drivers for Win98SE. The hardware wizard finds it and sets it up. The adapter is in the device manager, shows as working correctly. I put the appropriate information in the configuration screen - name of network, authentication, encryption, WEP key, click Apply to save the settings. But the site survey fails to find the network. And, when I return to the configuration screen my settings are gone. I've messed around with the network protocols and adapters screen - I think I have them right - they pretty much match the settings on the Win98SE machine that IS connecting. However, I never - make that NEVER - get a connection. What is the engineer's definition of Hell? A room full of the best, most modern machines, in perfect condition - that won't work! I have found some articles on the net that I will hold in my hot little hands when I next attack this machine. But, in the meantime, I thought I'd ask the gurus on this list for some suggestions. Go ahead and start at the beginning. I am willing to retrace any and all of my working process. I still know so little about networking I feel totally ignorant. Thanks for any assistance you can give. Tina _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Sun Aug 28 10:45:46 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 10:45:46 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Hourglass in Excel Message-ID: <000001c5abe7$8f0ac550$0300a8c0@danwaters> Is there an equivalent to Access' hourglass in Excel? Dan Waters From carbonnb at gmail.com Sun Aug 28 11:02:37 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 12:02:37 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Hourglass in Excel In-Reply-To: <000001c5abe7$8f0ac550$0300a8c0@danwaters> References: <000001c5abe7$8f0ac550$0300a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: On 28/08/05, Dan Waters wrote: > Is there an equivalent to Access' hourglass in Excel? I'm not 100% sure if this is Word or XL or both, but look in the help file for MousePointer. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From john at winhaven.net Mon Aug 29 13:30:17 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:30:17 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] See linux partitions from windows Message-ID: <200508291830.j7TIUIR18471@databaseadvisors.com> I thought some of you might be interested in this utility: http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/explore2fs.htm John B. From john at winhaven.net Mon Aug 29 13:30:17 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:30:17 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray In-Reply-To: <200508270035.j7R0ZAR25099@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200508291830.j7TIUIR18472@databaseadvisors.com> I took the dive and was pleasantly surprised. Although it was one of the old proprietary Compaqs, the CD Drive came out in a flash. I took the face plate off of it, hooked it up to my USB - ATA adapter and ejected it. Still didn't come out so I got a couple of plastic cards ready to coax it out and that frightened it so much that it ejected without the need to probe ;o) The CD disk had the slightest warp to it. However, when I was taking the face plate off I noticed a lot of little scratches and gouges in the plastic so this apparently has been a problem in the past. Makes me wonder how many Macs don't want to give up their CDs since they tend to use these slotted CD/DVD drives rather than the trays... -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:35 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Manually eject CD from a drive without a tray No hole in this one. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Usually there is a pinhole into which you can shove a pin and this forces Eject. I am not familiar with this particular config so it might have one, but I have 3 CDs and DVDs here and they all have it. A. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Mon Aug 29 20:26:08 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:26:08 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] See linux partitions from windows In-Reply-To: <200508291830.j7TIUIR18471@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200508291830.j7TIUIR18471@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: On 29/08/05, John Bartow wrote: > I thought some of you might be interested in this utility: > http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/explore2fs.htm Thanks John. I use a different one to see my Linux EXT3 patition from XPP http://ext2fsd.sourceforge.net/ -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon Aug 29 21:06:40 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:06:40 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Send Again in Outlook Message-ID: <003801c5ad07$76996d70$0200a8c0@danwaters> For almost every email I send to a new person, I instantly get an 'Undeliverable' message back. This message comes back almost instantaneously, so the message is not reaching the other server and then coming back to me - I think that my Outlook is causing the send error. Then, I can double-click the 'Undeliverable' message, and an Outlook window appears asking me if I wish to 'Send Again'. So I do, and then the message goes through. Has anyone dealt with this - it's annoying! Dan Waters From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Aug 30 08:06:45 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 09:06:45 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Send Again in Outlook In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C6E61D@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABEEF1@ADGSERVER> We have just had this start happening in outlook xp. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 10:07 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Send Again in Outlook For almost every email I send to a new person, I instantly get an 'Undeliverable' message back. This message comes back almost instantaneously, so the message is not reaching the other server and then coming back to me - I think that my Outlook is causing the send error. Then, I can double-click the 'Undeliverable' message, and an Outlook window appears asking me if I wish to 'Send Again'. So I do, and then the message goes through. Has anyone dealt with this - it's annoying! Dan Waters _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From listmaster at databaseadvisors.com Wed Aug 31 08:21:41 2005 From: listmaster at databaseadvisors.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:21:41 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Administrivia - List Software Upgrade - Sep 4 Message-ID: <431576A5.23677.326CD85@listmaster.databaseadvisors.com> The software that runs our list has released a new version to fix some security issues, add some new features to help out the admins and mods and some bug fixes. So I will be upgrading the software on Sunday Sep 4. This will mean the lists will be down starting at 10am (EDT - UTC -0400) on Sunday Set 4. If the previous upgrades are any indication, they will be down for less than 1/2 hour. So there won't be much disruption. -- Bryan Carbonnell - listmaster at databaseadvisors.com Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software. From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 31 10:52:31 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:52:31 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] file renaming utility Message-ID: <200508311552.j7VFqXR31231@databaseadvisors.com> Anyone know of a utility that can rename folders and files from all caps to proper case? I burned all of my wife's folders and files to a CD and she copied them onto her Win2K PC at school and they're all in CAPS. Hard to read that way. From kathryn at bassett.net Wed Aug 31 11:52:10 2005 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:52:10 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] file renaming utility In-Reply-To: <200508311552.j7VFqXR31231@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <20050831095219.7EB6259@dm18.mta.everyone.net> John Bartow asked: > Anyone know of a utility that can rename folders and files > from all caps to proper case? http://www.publicspace.net/windows/BetterFileRename/ I love this program. The free version you can do 10 files at a time, and I quickly bought the unlimited version. I'm glad I looked this up for you, because I see they've brought out a new version. In addition to the caps case, you can "add at beginning" "add at end" "replace at beginning", "replace anywhere" etc - about two dozen choices of things. The thing I do the most often is changing the names of photos from my digital camera. For instance, I'll have a file called: HPIM0911.JPG through HPIM0950.JPG and using Better File Rename, I'll end up with 20050730CheckerShow-911.jpg through 20050730CheckerShow-950.jpg I have a couple of my genealogy clients I've got using it as well. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 31 12:38:46 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 12:38:46 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] file renaming utility In-Reply-To: <20050831095219.7EB6259@dm18.mta.everyone.net> Message-ID: <200508311738.j7VHcmR25548@databaseadvisors.com> Thanks, I'll try it out! -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn Bassett Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:52 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] file renaming utility John Bartow asked: > Anyone know of a utility that can rename folders and files from all > caps to proper case? http://www.publicspace.net/windows/BetterFileRename/ I love this program. The free version you can do 10 files at a time, and I quickly bought the unlimited version. I'm glad I looked this up for you, because I see they've brought out a new version. In addition to the caps case, you can "add at beginning" "add at end" "replace at beginning", "replace anywhere" etc - about two dozen choices of things. The thing I do the most often is changing the names of photos from my digital camera. For instance, I'll have a file called: HPIM0911.JPG through HPIM0950.JPG and using Better File Rename, I'll end up with 20050730CheckerShow-911.jpg through 20050730CheckerShow-950.jpg I have a couple of my genealogy clients I've got using it as well. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com