MartyConnelly
martyconnelly at shaw.ca
Sun Mar 6 15:04:46 CST 2005
I like Bjarne Stroustrup's ideas on OOP's as not being the only ideal way http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#multiparadigm He states that C++ can be used for Multiparadigm programming, for example C code Kernighan & Ritchie standard can be compiled with C++. Multiparadigm programming is a fancy way of saying "programming using more than one programming style, each to its best effect." For more see http://www.research.att.com/~bs/oopsla.pdf John Colby reminded me of this patterns & practices in MS Enterprise Library This is reusable and extensible source code-based guidance that simplifies development of common data access functionality in .NET-based applications using various pattern sample code in VB and C# plus unit testing. Download from here. http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnpag2/html/entlib.asp http://www.microsoft.com/resources/practices/code.mspx Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: ><<< > > >>by Richard Mansfield >>http://www.devx.com/DevX/Article/26776 >> >> >Marty, > >This article is a non-sense for experienced OO programmer/designer... >You know that for sure. >Why did you post this link here? :) > ><<< >A frequent argument for OOP is it helps with code reusability, > > >Wrong. Code reusability isn't the main attribute of OOP &D.... >Every experienced OO programmer knows that. >"The point of OOP is not reusability, although it's a side-benefit. The >point is that it's a good way of factoring the functionality of an >application." (http://www.ftponline.com/discuss/forum.aspx?id=23&msg_id=634) > ><<< >Why does OOP generate problems it must then deal with later? > > >I'd say procedural programming generates a WAY more problems than OOP... > ><<< >But it got its major boost during the paradigm shift from DOS to Windows. > > >Wrong. As far as I see main OOP research & development done in non-Windows >environments. >This is just several years ago that MS "got it at last" and started to >widely promote OOP on MS Windows platform (.NET Framework of course). But >this is usual MS practice: they wait until a tool, a technology, a >knowledge, a methodology got matured and widely approved and then they buy, >adapt, extend,....it - so IMO the fact that MS is (successfully) trying to >get leading positions in OOP world is an additional approval that OOP is a >way to go... (of course MS "haters" and procedural programming amateurs will >try to prove the opposite :)) > ><<< >Nearly three decades ago the Basic language was introduced as a teaching >tool-a way to teach programming to college students. Because its primary >goal is clarity, Basic employed a diction, punctuation, and syntax that were >as similar to English as possible. > > >There is no Basic anymore you know - there is VB.NET. >Students are teached Java, C++, C#, VB.NET - no Basic anymore (Of course I >continue to use VBA/VB6 because of my customers' requests but this is a >"dead-end" in long run...) > ><<< >Efficiency is the goal of OOP, but the result is too often the opposite. > > >Wrong. That's clear that "there is no free cheese...." - for the power of >OOP one pays by degraded performance, which in most of the cases can be >neglected. When it can't be neglected then they use procedural >programming(C) or assembler.... > ><<< >At this point, it's difficult to predict whether OOP will fade rapidly like >some intellectual fads or persist like the long, bad dream of >Aristotelianism > > >OOP is today's the only real and efficient way to develop getting more and >more complicated real-life applications... >Something new may arise but then it promise to be something extra-terrestal >because OOP is a natural way of modeling and developing this world >businesses and activities.... > ><<< >To me, hope resides in the computer itself, not us foolish humans. I expect >the machine to eventually be capable of interpreting human instructions in >human languages. > > >I think they will never get that capability without advanced tomorrow >computers and programs, designed and developed using OOP best practices... > >Just my two rubles... > >Shamil > >P.S. I have just found this article: >http://www.devx.com/opinion/Article/27020 - "OOP Is Best in Practice >In a rebuttal to Richard Mansfield's editorial "OOP Is Much Better in Theory >Than in Practice", Dave Herren says Mansfield's arguments against OOP are >based on outdated teachings and false notions. Yet he believes there's still >hope for him. " > >-- >Web: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MartyConnelly" <martyconnelly at shaw.ca> >To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" ><dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com> >Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 3:26 AM >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] C++ to vb.net conversion > > > > >>Well I am an unabashed proceduralist and would much prefer to write >>Fast Fourier Transforms in APL than having >>to do it with an OOP language. I have been on teams using UML to churn >>out PL1 or Cobol code. I don't mind patterns, however on an OOP >>team, I always feel like I am in a trench and the shelling is getting >>heavier and everyone else is huddled down >>debating whether to load their rifles with .303 or 7.62 Ammo. >> >> Grady Brooch the father of OOP who worked at Rational Software before >>it was sold to IBM >>two years ago ,well now he is is dropping work on UML at IBM and working >>on patterns for something called >>aspect oriented development. This would be something like as an example, >>the security aspect of system to system connectivity, >>assuming similar underlying patterns.. >> >>Some thoughts on Ooops, procedural and generic programming problems >> >>OOP Is Much Better in Theory Than in Practice >>Think object-orient programming (OOP) is the only way to go? You poor, >>misguided soul. Richard Mansfield contends that OOP is just the latest in >> >> >a > > >>history of ideas that sound good in theory but are clumsy in practice. >> >>by Richard Mansfield >>http://www.devx.com/DevX/Article/26776 >> >>And all the hate mail in response >>http://forums.devx.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=136762 >> >>Further thoughts from Mansfield >>http://www.geocities.com/tablizer/oopbad.htm >> >>Richard Grimes on VB.NET and VB6 columnist at Dr Dobb's Journals >>What Microsoft missed. >>http://www.ddj.com/documents/s=9211/ddj050201dnn/ >> >>Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: >> >> >> >>>Marty, >>> >>>I meant mainly UML used for OOP real-life projects design & development >>> >>> >not > > >>>just UML for database model diagramming - the latter is rather trivial >>> >>> >these > > >>>days, the first is still state-of-the-art. But the first was investigated >>> >>> >a > > >>>lot during last ten+ years and there are very useful results IMO. I did >>>recently get through "Applying UML and Patterns" by Craig Larman - it >>> >>> >shows > > >>>that UML is a practical not an academic tool and that when combined with >>>Software Design Patterns then it becomes even more powerful and more >>>practical tool... >>> >>>Shamil >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "MartyConnelly" <martyconnelly at shaw.ca> >>>To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" >>><dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com> >>>Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 3:05 AM >>>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] C++ to vb.net conversion >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>UML. I had a funny a couple of months ago, when I got called into a >>>>company to check their records rentention periods >>>>for corporate compliance. I asked for a simple diagram of database >>>>links. This was a large company and had a couple >>>>of hundred databases spread around the country. Nobody had one. Don't >>>>you guys use UML or data models >>>>No that is passe, I was told. Each DBA seemed to run his own fiefdom. I >>>>finally got one of the older hands to sketch me out a map on the backs >>>>of beer coasters. >>>>Transfered that to Visio then to System Architect. About a week later >>>>the CIO got a copy of my basic diagrams >>>>and demanded a fully fleshed out one, he had been looking for one for a >>>>couple of years. >>>> >>>> >>>>Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>Developers know that no technology will take them >>>>>>to the promised land that has been promised many times >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Steve, >>>>> >>>>>I believe the sentence above will become false in another 50-100 years >>>>> >>>>> >:) > > >>>>>Not in my lifetime probably :( >>>>> >>>>>OOP&D, software design patterns, UML and UML-based software design & >>>>>development methodologies and practices, agile and extreme programming, >>>>>managed code (like C# & VB.NET, managed C++), effective risk, team & >>>>>project management... - all these are promising, really useful and >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>therefore >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>solid foundation to get the road to the promised land built somewhere >>>>> >>>>> >in > > >>>>> >>>>> >>>not >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>that far from today future.... >>>>> >>>>>Shamil >>>>>-- >>>>>Web: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s >>>>> >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Steve Erbach" <erbachs at gmail.com> >>>>>To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" >>>>><dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com> >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 4:02 PM >>>>>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] C++ to vb.net conversion >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Shamil, >>>>>> >>>>>>I visited your home page and was struck by the quote there. It >>>>>>reminded me of something I'd seen in InfoWorld a few years ago written >>>>>>by a former programmer: >>>>>> >>>>>>"If art is making order out of chaos, then software developers are >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>artists >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>at the highest level. Sure, you will hear about advances that promise >>>>>> >>>>>> >to > > >>>>>>make the life of the software developer easier -- object-oriented >>>>>>programming, integrated development environments, and now Web >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>services -- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>but walk into any development shop and the developers stare intently >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>into >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>their monitors, facing conundrum after conundrum, but still fighting >>>>>> >>>>>> >the > > >>>>>>machine and bending it to their will. Developers know that no >>>>>> >>>>>> >technology > > >>>>>>will take them to the promised land that has been promised many times, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>but >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>faith in his or her ability to conquer the machine drives the >>>>>> >>>>>> >sometimes > > >>>>>>Sisyphean task." >>>>>> >>>>>>I'm sorry, I don't have the name of the programmer. >>>>>> >>>>>>Steve Erbach >>>>>>Neenah, WI >>>>>>USA >>>>>> >>>>>>On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:08:00 +0300, Shamil Salakhetdinov >>>>>><shamil at users.mns.ru> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>Unfortunately in HANGS ON my VS.NET 2003 IDE. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>It was one of the Add-ins I did download and install, which was >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >hanging > > >>>>>>>VS.NET 2003. >>>>>>>It works OK now after I removed this add-in... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>So, I think this wrapper is useful... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Shamil >>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>Web: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>dba-Tech mailing list >>>>>>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>>>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>dba-Tech mailing list >>>>>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>-- >>>>Marty Connelly >>>>Victoria, B.C. >>>>Canada >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>dba-Tech mailing list >>>>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>dba-Tech mailing list >>>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Marty Connelly >>Victoria, B.C. >>Canada >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-Tech mailing list >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada