From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jan 1 02:15:57 2008 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 00:15:57 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Storebought WHS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6686916325214701A144C7DB9E31FECB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Gary: What I have heard about MS Home Server is that it is not ready for prime time yet: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/31/home_server/ and... http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&arti cleId=9054178 My understanding is that MS is working full-time on getting the fixes in place but I myself will wait until it gets a clean bill of health before recommending it to clients. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 9:15 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Storebought WHS I bought the Windows Home Server system put together by HP, called the HP MediaSmart Server. http://h71036.www7.hp.com/hho/cache/447351-0-0-225-121.html I bought it from Amazon for $577.52 including free shipping. I also purchased two additional 500 GB SATA disk drives for it from MicroCenter for $100 each. Both the additional drives and the server itself arrived on Friday so on Saturday I opend up the boxes and got started. I decided to pop in the new drives right off the bat and that went well. You can do it without even powering down the server. Just open the front door to access the drives and slide out an unused tray, pop in the drive and slide the tray back in. If the system is up you need to go into the management console and tell it to start using the new drives but since I hadn't gotten that far yet I never needed to do that. I hooked it up to the network and powered it up and all appeared to be as it should be. I decided to use my laptop to be the first system to connect to the server so I booted it up and connected it to the network via hard wired ethernet. Had a bit of trouble getting the wireless to stop working to but eventually got that to stop by disabling the wireless and rebooting. I then loaded the client software CD and tried to load the Server Management client software on the laptop. It bombed out at the point where it was "trying to locate server" according to the message. It's right there I thought ;-) Look to your right. I disabled the software firewall and tried it again. Still no good. I downloaded and ran a Connector Software Trouble Shooter and looked at the things it saw as trouble. I tried a bunch of IPCONFIG things and things of that nature but had no luck getting the management software to install on my laptop. Grrrr. Tried rebooting the server. Tried rebooting the laptop. As I had another system sitting right next to the server, I decided to try installing the software on that one and low and behold it installed and ran right away. Had no problem finding the server. I was able to assign the main system password and set up a couple user accounts and got ths system started backing up that system. The backup didn't take too long, but it died at some point before it finished and told me that there was a potential problem with one of the two hard drives on that system and that I should run chkdsk /f on it. Great! So after some cursing I got working on that. And while the check disk was running I installed the client software on another PC. That one installed without any problem either and I got a backup going on it right away. That backup finished successfully and I was feeling better about the whole deal. Checkdisk finished on the other system eventually and reported nothing that it couldn't fix, so after I got it booted back up again I restarted that backup there and it ran OK that time. I decided to have another go at the laptop and was still not able to get it to install that client peice. I even tried to install the software FROM the server itself which it could see and map a drive to and that didn't work either. It got to just before the installation should have been complete and it died. I then installed the software on my main system - a Windows Vista system and it installed there without any issues and I got the backup run there successfully too. I still have my wifes laptop to try the client install and backup on before I try it on my own laptop once more. I think i will try it using the regular wireless netowrk connection on her system. The nightly backups ran fine on two of those three systems last night although it failed on the third - the same system that I was told to do the checkdisk on. Upon further investigation I found that Windows Update had caused a reboot on that system last night and it evidently happened while the backup was running. It was sitting at the select user reboot screen this morning and after I got it booted up I restarted the backup and it worked just fine. At this point I haven't done any of the other things that I can use this server for - sharing ITUNES music, allowing remote access to other systems, and I don't even remember what else all it can do for me. My main interest is in it's backup capabilities. I now have my 3 desktops all backed up but I still have the two laptops to get backed up. The server itself is very quiet. MUCH quieter than the other PC that is sitting right next to it. I determined that this morning after I shut down that system after getting it successfully backed up. It's about half the height of a normal tower system and about 2/3 the depth. Kind of cute actually ;-) I know that's important to a lot of people. So at this early stage other than the one install issue I am having with the laptop I am pretty happy with it. Of the 1.5 Terrabytes of disk it has, it said that 1.2 terrabytes were still free after backing up the 2 Windows XP Pro desktops and the one Vista Home Premium Desktop. I'll tell you more when I have more to tell. -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jan 1 07:49:21 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 08:49:21 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Storebought WHS In-Reply-To: <6686916325214701A144C7DB9E31FECB@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <6686916325214701A144C7DB9E31FECB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <002e01c84c7d$1d4df390$657aa8c0@M90> You will wait for many years then, nothing ever gets a clean bill of health. Of course recommending it to clients is different from using it yourself. Back in the dark ages, as Windows XP was being released I read that it had 63 THOUSAND known bugs when they released it. I am quite sure that it still has a rather long list of known bugs. Programming is about discovering the bugs and fixing them in order of importance. As we all know here on this list, you can write an application, test the hell out of it, give it a "clean bill of health" and then a user does something that you didn't in testing and your "clean bill of health" goes right down the tube. So you fix it, test the hell out of it and release the fixes, then your user does something else that you never tried and your "clean bill of health" goes right down the tube. So when do you begin to use an application? That said, WHS has not had the first service pack applied yet, and most of us would not recommend any software until the early adopters had found the most serious bugs and they had been fixed. Since I do not do any editing of files using any of those programs, and certainly do not edit them directly on the server, this bug does not apparently effect me. ;-) John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 3:16 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Storebought WHS Hi Gary: What I have heard about MS Home Server is that it is not ready for prime time yet: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/31/home_server/ and... http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&arti cleId=9054178 My understanding is that MS is working full-time on getting the fixes in place but I myself will wait until it gets a clean bill of health before recommending it to clients. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 9:15 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Storebought WHS I bought the Windows Home Server system put together by HP, called the HP MediaSmart Server. http://h71036.www7.hp.com/hho/cache/447351-0-0-225-121.html I bought it from Amazon for $577.52 including free shipping. I also purchased two additional 500 GB SATA disk drives for it from MicroCenter for $100 each. Both the additional drives and the server itself arrived on Friday so on Saturday I opend up the boxes and got started. I decided to pop in the new drives right off the bat and that went well. You can do it without even powering down the server. Just open the front door to access the drives and slide out an unused tray, pop in the drive and slide the tray back in. If the system is up you need to go into the management console and tell it to start using the new drives but since I hadn't gotten that far yet I never needed to do that. I hooked it up to the network and powered it up and all appeared to be as it should be. I decided to use my laptop to be the first system to connect to the server so I booted it up and connected it to the network via hard wired ethernet. Had a bit of trouble getting the wireless to stop working to but eventually got that to stop by disabling the wireless and rebooting. I then loaded the client software CD and tried to load the Server Management client software on the laptop. It bombed out at the point where it was "trying to locate server" according to the message. It's right there I thought ;-) Look to your right. I disabled the software firewall and tried it again. Still no good. I downloaded and ran a Connector Software Trouble Shooter and looked at the things it saw as trouble. I tried a bunch of IPCONFIG things and things of that nature but had no luck getting the management software to install on my laptop. Grrrr. Tried rebooting the server. Tried rebooting the laptop. As I had another system sitting right next to the server, I decided to try installing the software on that one and low and behold it installed and ran right away. Had no problem finding the server. I was able to assign the main system password and set up a couple user accounts and got ths system started backing up that system. The backup didn't take too long, but it died at some point before it finished and told me that there was a potential problem with one of the two hard drives on that system and that I should run chkdsk /f on it. Great! So after some cursing I got working on that. And while the check disk was running I installed the client software on another PC. That one installed without any problem either and I got a backup going on it right away. That backup finished successfully and I was feeling better about the whole deal. Checkdisk finished on the other system eventually and reported nothing that it couldn't fix, so after I got it booted back up again I restarted that backup there and it ran OK that time. I decided to have another go at the laptop and was still not able to get it to install that client peice. I even tried to install the software FROM the server itself which it could see and map a drive to and that didn't work either. It got to just before the installation should have been complete and it died. I then installed the software on my main system - a Windows Vista system and it installed there without any issues and I got the backup run there successfully too. I still have my wifes laptop to try the client install and backup on before I try it on my own laptop once more. I think i will try it using the regular wireless netowrk connection on her system. The nightly backups ran fine on two of those three systems last night although it failed on the third - the same system that I was told to do the checkdisk on. Upon further investigation I found that Windows Update had caused a reboot on that system last night and it evidently happened while the backup was running. It was sitting at the select user reboot screen this morning and after I got it booted up I restarted the backup and it worked just fine. At this point I haven't done any of the other things that I can use this server for - sharing ITUNES music, allowing remote access to other systems, and I don't even remember what else all it can do for me. My main interest is in it's backup capabilities. I now have my 3 desktops all backed up but I still have the two laptops to get backed up. The server itself is very quiet. MUCH quieter than the other PC that is sitting right next to it. I determined that this morning after I shut down that system after getting it successfully backed up. It's about half the height of a normal tower system and about 2/3 the depth. Kind of cute actually ;-) I know that's important to a lot of people. So at this early stage other than the one install issue I am having with the laptop I am pretty happy with it. Of the 1.5 Terrabytes of disk it has, it said that 1.2 terrabytes were still free after backing up the 2 Windows XP Pro desktops and the one Vista Home Premium Desktop. I'll tell you more when I have more to tell. -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jan 1 08:17:36 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 09:17:36 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Storebought WHS In-Reply-To: <6686916325214701A144C7DB9E31FECB@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <6686916325214701A144C7DB9E31FECB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <002f01c84c81$0f3fc9f0$657aa8c0@M90> Reading the description I can just about predict what the bug was. WHS allows you to "duplicate" a file in a shared folder onto an identical folder on a physically different disk. It sounds like they do not lock the file in the first file before copying the file to the second folder / disk. Thus they start copying, to the duplicate area and then someone comes along and edits a part already copied, and that new area is not marked as dirty and needing to be copied again. I'm telling you, as important as the backup functionality to me, I am going to go hardware raid, which makes the duplicate functionality unnecessary. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 3:16 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Storebought WHS Hi Gary: What I have heard about MS Home Server is that it is not ready for prime time yet: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/31/home_server/ and... http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&arti cleId=9054178 My understanding is that MS is working full-time on getting the fixes in place but I myself will wait until it gets a clean bill of health before recommending it to clients. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 9:15 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Storebought WHS I bought the Windows Home Server system put together by HP, called the HP MediaSmart Server. http://h71036.www7.hp.com/hho/cache/447351-0-0-225-121.html I bought it from Amazon for $577.52 including free shipping. I also purchased two additional 500 GB SATA disk drives for it from MicroCenter for $100 each. Both the additional drives and the server itself arrived on Friday so on Saturday I opend up the boxes and got started. I decided to pop in the new drives right off the bat and that went well. You can do it without even powering down the server. Just open the front door to access the drives and slide out an unused tray, pop in the drive and slide the tray back in. If the system is up you need to go into the management console and tell it to start using the new drives but since I hadn't gotten that far yet I never needed to do that. I hooked it up to the network and powered it up and all appeared to be as it should be. I decided to use my laptop to be the first system to connect to the server so I booted it up and connected it to the network via hard wired ethernet. Had a bit of trouble getting the wireless to stop working to but eventually got that to stop by disabling the wireless and rebooting. I then loaded the client software CD and tried to load the Server Management client software on the laptop. It bombed out at the point where it was "trying to locate server" according to the message. It's right there I thought ;-) Look to your right. I disabled the software firewall and tried it again. Still no good. I downloaded and ran a Connector Software Trouble Shooter and looked at the things it saw as trouble. I tried a bunch of IPCONFIG things and things of that nature but had no luck getting the management software to install on my laptop. Grrrr. Tried rebooting the server. Tried rebooting the laptop. As I had another system sitting right next to the server, I decided to try installing the software on that one and low and behold it installed and ran right away. Had no problem finding the server. I was able to assign the main system password and set up a couple user accounts and got ths system started backing up that system. The backup didn't take too long, but it died at some point before it finished and told me that there was a potential problem with one of the two hard drives on that system and that I should run chkdsk /f on it. Great! So after some cursing I got working on that. And while the check disk was running I installed the client software on another PC. That one installed without any problem either and I got a backup going on it right away. That backup finished successfully and I was feeling better about the whole deal. Checkdisk finished on the other system eventually and reported nothing that it couldn't fix, so after I got it booted back up again I restarted that backup there and it ran OK that time. I decided to have another go at the laptop and was still not able to get it to install that client peice. I even tried to install the software FROM the server itself which it could see and map a drive to and that didn't work either. It got to just before the installation should have been complete and it died. I then installed the software on my main system - a Windows Vista system and it installed there without any issues and I got the backup run there successfully too. I still have my wifes laptop to try the client install and backup on before I try it on my own laptop once more. I think i will try it using the regular wireless netowrk connection on her system. The nightly backups ran fine on two of those three systems last night although it failed on the third - the same system that I was told to do the checkdisk on. Upon further investigation I found that Windows Update had caused a reboot on that system last night and it evidently happened while the backup was running. It was sitting at the select user reboot screen this morning and after I got it booted up I restarted the backup and it worked just fine. At this point I haven't done any of the other things that I can use this server for - sharing ITUNES music, allowing remote access to other systems, and I don't even remember what else all it can do for me. My main interest is in it's backup capabilities. I now have my 3 desktops all backed up but I still have the two laptops to get backed up. The server itself is very quiet. MUCH quieter than the other PC that is sitting right next to it. I determined that this morning after I shut down that system after getting it successfully backed up. It's about half the height of a normal tower system and about 2/3 the depth. Kind of cute actually ;-) I know that's important to a lot of people. So at this early stage other than the one install issue I am having with the laptop I am pretty happy with it. Of the 1.5 Terrabytes of disk it has, it said that 1.2 terrabytes were still free after backing up the 2 Windows XP Pro desktops and the one Vista Home Premium Desktop. I'll tell you more when I have more to tell. -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Tue Jan 1 16:30:49 2008 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 16:30:49 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Storebought WHS In-Reply-To: <6686916325214701A144C7DB9E31FECB@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <6686916325214701A144C7DB9E31FECB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: HI Jim, I'm really not that needy of it as a file sharing type of a server. So none of those issues would seem to concern me at all. My biggest need is for it's backup capabilities. Now that I got the client install to run on my laptop I have it doing nightly backups of 3 desktops and 2 laptops only one of which was previously being backed up at all on a regular basis. Although I might be interested in using it's sharing capabilities to do ITUNES music sharing. I understand it can pool together music from all the systems and then each system can use that pooled music library. I'm really pretty happy with it at the moment. Of course that could change quickly if something went amiss. GK On Jan 1, 2008 2:15 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Gary: > > What I have heard about MS Home Server is that it is not ready for prime > time yet: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/31/home_server/ > > and... > > http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&arti > cleId=9054178 > > My understanding is that MS is working full-time on getting the fixes in > place but I myself will wait until it gets a clean bill of health before > recommending it to clients. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 9:15 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: [dba-Tech] Storebought WHS > > > I bought the Windows Home Server system put together by HP, called the > HP MediaSmart Server. > > http://h71036.www7.hp.com/hho/cache/447351-0-0-225-121.html > > I bought it from Amazon for $577.52 including free shipping. I also > purchased two additional 500 GB SATA disk drives for it from > MicroCenter for $100 each. > > Both the additional drives and the server itself arrived on Friday so > on Saturday I opend up the boxes and got started. I decided to pop in > the new drives right off the bat and that went well. You can do it > without even powering down the server. Just open the front door to > access the drives and slide out an unused tray, pop in the drive and > slide the tray back in. If the system is up you need to go into the > management console and tell it to start using the new drives but since > I hadn't gotten that far yet I never needed to do that. > > I hooked it up to the network and powered it up and all appeared to be > as it should be. I decided to use my laptop to be the first system to > connect to the server so I booted it up and connected it to the > network via hard wired ethernet. Had a bit of trouble getting the > wireless to stop working to but eventually got that to stop by > disabling the wireless and rebooting. I then loaded the client > software CD and tried to load the Server Management client software on > the laptop. It bombed out at the point where it was "trying to locate > server" according to the message. It's right there I thought ;-) Look > to your right. I disabled the software firewall and tried it again. > Still no good. I downloaded and ran a Connector Software Trouble > Shooter and looked at the things it saw as trouble. I tried a bunch of > IPCONFIG things and things of that nature but had no luck getting the > management software to install on my laptop. Grrrr. Tried rebooting > the server. Tried rebooting the laptop. > > As I had another system sitting right next to the server, I decided to > try installing the software on that one and low and behold it > installed and ran right away. Had no problem finding the server. I was > able to assign the main system password and set up a couple user > accounts and got ths system started backing up that system. The backup > didn't take too long, but it died at some point before it finished and > told me that there was a potential problem with one of the two hard > drives on that system and that I should run chkdsk /f on it. Great! > So after some cursing I got working on that. And while the check disk > was running I installed the client software on another PC. That one > installed without any problem either and I got a backup going on it > right away. That backup finished successfully and I was feeling better > about the whole deal. Checkdisk finished on the other system > eventually and reported nothing that it couldn't fix, so after I got > it booted back up again I restarted that backup there and it ran OK > that time. > > I decided to have another go at the laptop and was still not able to > get it to install that client peice. I even tried to install the > software FROM the server itself which it could see and map a drive to > and that didn't work either. It got to just before the installation > should have been complete and it died. > > I then installed the software on my main system - a Windows Vista > system and it installed there without any issues and I got the backup > run there successfully too. > > I still have my wifes laptop to try the client install and backup on > before I try it on my own laptop once more. I think i will try it > using the regular wireless netowrk connection on her system. > > The nightly backups ran fine on two of those three systems last night > although it failed on the third - the same system that I was told to > do the checkdisk on. Upon further investigation I found that Windows > Update had caused a reboot on that system last night and it evidently > happened while the backup was running. It was sitting at the select > user reboot screen this morning and after I got it booted up I > restarted the backup and it worked just fine. > > At this point I haven't done any of the other things that I can use > this server for - sharing ITUNES music, allowing remote access to > other systems, and I don't even remember what else all it can do for > me. My main interest is in it's backup capabilities. I now have my 3 > desktops all backed up but I still have the two laptops to get backed > up. > > The server itself is very quiet. MUCH quieter than the other PC that > is sitting right next to it. I determined that this morning after I > shut down that system after getting it successfully backed up. It's > about half the height of a normal tower system and about 2/3 the > depth. Kind of cute actually ;-) I know that's important to a lot of > people. > > So at this early stage other than the one install issue I am having > with the laptop I am pretty happy with it. Of the 1.5 Terrabytes of > disk it has, it said that 1.2 terrabytes were still free after backing > up the 2 Windows XP Pro desktops and the one Vista Home Premium > Desktop. > > I'll tell you more when I have more to tell. > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jan 1 18:59:18 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 19:59:18 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Storebought WHS In-Reply-To: References: <6686916325214701A144C7DB9E31FECB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000101c84cda$b4870c30$657aa8c0@M90> I also think that you can turn off file duplication while you are copying files to the WHS, as an example if you are copying all of your pictures up for the first time. Then turn it back on after you are done with the copy. It really appears that this problem rears its head when people are simultaneously editing files while the file duplication is on. As an example, I used SyncToy (with file duplication ON) do sync the photo directories between several computers and WHS. However I did so one computer at a time. I copied about 4 thousand picture files from my main photo storage up to WHS. I then went to my laptop and synced that to WHS. I then went to my wife's laptop and synced that. But I did it one computer at a time. AFAICT I am not getting corruption. If I had tried to sync all three computers at the same time the story might have been different. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:31 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Storebought WHS HI Jim, I'm really not that needy of it as a file sharing type of a server. So none of those issues would seem to concern me at all. My biggest need is for it's backup capabilities. Now that I got the client install to run on my laptop I have it doing nightly backups of 3 desktops and 2 laptops only one of which was previously being backed up at all on a regular basis. Although I might be interested in using it's sharing capabilities to do ITUNES music sharing. I understand it can pool together music from all the systems and then each system can use that pooled music library. I'm really pretty happy with it at the moment. Of course that could change quickly if something went amiss. GK On Jan 1, 2008 2:15 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Gary: > > What I have heard about MS Home Server is that it is not ready for > prime time yet: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/31/home_server/ > > and... > > http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasi > c&arti > cleId=9054178 > > My understanding is that MS is working full-time on getting the fixes > in place but I myself will wait until it gets a clean bill of health > before recommending it to clients. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 9:15 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: [dba-Tech] Storebought WHS > > > I bought the Windows Home Server system put together by HP, called the > HP MediaSmart Server. > > http://h71036.www7.hp.com/hho/cache/447351-0-0-225-121.html > > I bought it from Amazon for $577.52 including free shipping. I also > purchased two additional 500 GB SATA disk drives for it from > MicroCenter for $100 each. > > Both the additional drives and the server itself arrived on Friday so > on Saturday I opend up the boxes and got started. I decided to pop in > the new drives right off the bat and that went well. You can do it > without even powering down the server. Just open the front door to > access the drives and slide out an unused tray, pop in the drive and > slide the tray back in. If the system is up you need to go into the > management console and tell it to start using the new drives but since > I hadn't gotten that far yet I never needed to do that. > > I hooked it up to the network and powered it up and all appeared to be > as it should be. I decided to use my laptop to be the first system to > connect to the server so I booted it up and connected it to the > network via hard wired ethernet. Had a bit of trouble getting the > wireless to stop working to but eventually got that to stop by > disabling the wireless and rebooting. I then loaded the client > software CD and tried to load the Server Management client software on > the laptop. It bombed out at the point where it was "trying to locate > server" according to the message. It's right there I thought ;-) Look > to your right. I disabled the software firewall and tried it again. > Still no good. I downloaded and ran a Connector Software Trouble > Shooter and looked at the things it saw as trouble. I tried a bunch of > IPCONFIG things and things of that nature but had no luck getting the > management software to install on my laptop. Grrrr. Tried rebooting > the server. Tried rebooting the laptop. > > As I had another system sitting right next to the server, I decided to > try installing the software on that one and low and behold it > installed and ran right away. Had no problem finding the server. I was > able to assign the main system password and set up a couple user > accounts and got ths system started backing up that system. The backup > didn't take too long, but it died at some point before it finished and > told me that there was a potential problem with one of the two hard > drives on that system and that I should run chkdsk /f on it. Great! > So after some cursing I got working on that. And while the check disk > was running I installed the client software on another PC. That one > installed without any problem either and I got a backup going on it > right away. That backup finished successfully and I was feeling better > about the whole deal. Checkdisk finished on the other system > eventually and reported nothing that it couldn't fix, so after I got > it booted back up again I restarted that backup there and it ran OK > that time. > > I decided to have another go at the laptop and was still not able to > get it to install that client peice. I even tried to install the > software FROM the server itself which it could see and map a drive to > and that didn't work either. It got to just before the installation > should have been complete and it died. > > I then installed the software on my main system - a Windows Vista > system and it installed there without any issues and I got the backup > run there successfully too. > > I still have my wifes laptop to try the client install and backup on > before I try it on my own laptop once more. I think i will try it > using the regular wireless netowrk connection on her system. > > The nightly backups ran fine on two of those three systems last night > although it failed on the third - the same system that I was told to > do the checkdisk on. Upon further investigation I found that Windows > Update had caused a reboot on that system last night and it evidently > happened while the backup was running. It was sitting at the select > user reboot screen this morning and after I got it booted up I > restarted the backup and it worked just fine. > > At this point I haven't done any of the other things that I can use > this server for - sharing ITUNES music, allowing remote access to > other systems, and I don't even remember what else all it can do for > me. My main interest is in it's backup capabilities. I now have my 3 > desktops all backed up but I still have the two laptops to get backed > up. > > The server itself is very quiet. MUCH quieter than the other PC that > is sitting right next to it. I determined that this morning after I > shut down that system after getting it successfully backed up. It's > about half the height of a normal tower system and about 2/3 the > depth. Kind of cute actually ;-) I know that's important to a lot of > people. > > So at this early stage other than the one install issue I am having > with the laptop I am pretty happy with it. Of the 1.5 Terrabytes of > disk it has, it said that 1.2 terrabytes were still free after backing > up the 2 Windows XP Pro desktops and the one Vista Home Premium > Desktop. > > I'll tell you more when I have more to tell. > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Jan 2 13:55:53 2008 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:55:53 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] WHS articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200801021957.m02Jux4u031678@databaseadvisors.com> Discusses the corruption bug: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1065&tag=nl.e539 Seems to be of little to worry about. Review by a linux guru: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1065&tag=nl.e539 Has praise for it. Enjoy! John B. From garykjos at gmail.com Wed Jan 2 14:08:53 2008 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 14:08:53 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] WHS articles In-Reply-To: <200801021957.m02Jux4u031678@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200801021957.m02Jux4u031678@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Ah John, you pasted the same link in twice here..... On 1/2/08, John Bartow wrote: > Discusses the corruption bug: > http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1065&tag=nl.e539 > Seems to be of little to worry about. > > > Review by a linux guru: > http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1065&tag=nl.e539 > Has praise for it. > > Enjoy! > John B. > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Jan 2 14:57:35 2008 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 14:57:35 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] WHS articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200801022058.m02KwkKh006055@databaseadvisors.com> Oops! Sorry 'bout that! I've been having one those "my wireless keyboard is a PITA" days :o( I have to use it shifted about a foot to the left for it to work correctly today!? Here the correct links: Discusses the corruption bug: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=348 Review by a Linux guru: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1065 -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:09 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] WHS articles Ah John, you pasted the same link in twice here..... On 1/2/08, John Bartow wrote: > Discusses the corruption bug: > http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1065&tag=nl.e539 > Seems to be of little to worry about. > > > Review by a linux guru: > http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1065&tag=nl.e539 > Has praise for it. > > Enjoy! > John B. > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jan 2 15:13:03 2008 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 13:13:03 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Applications In-Reply-To: <200801021957.m02Jux4u031678@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200801021957.m02Jux4u031678@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Hi all: Hope you have had a create holiday season. I have worked at using an old Adobe Flash Server but it is definitely past its prime and my master disks were 'lost' at a clients site some time ago. Now I am looking at an open-source flash server called Red5 (http://www.red5flashserver.com/). Has anyone had experience with it? Jim From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Jan 2 20:35:31 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 21:35:31 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nero Problem Message-ID: <29f585dd0801021835q5e9f42e1q71dfb2431f695fe2@mail.gmail.com> I have a problem with Nero Express. When I try to copy an entire disc, the only available destination is the Image Copier, but it can see the source CD fine. When I try to create a disk from an image, Nero can see only the Image Copier, not the actual CD drive. Any suggestions as to what's wrong? The CD incidentally is a dual-layer CD/DVD burner in an HP box. Arthur From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jan 2 23:28:01 2008 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:28:01 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nero Problem In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801021835q5e9f42e1q71dfb2431f695fe2@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801021835q5e9f42e1q71dfb2431f695fe2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Arthur: I do not know whether your situation is similar but when I installed my older version of Nero on a XP computer, it initially worked fine. After a number of updates to the XP system Nero started to have some issues. By the time SP2 was installed Nero would not work. It required the latest Nero version to solve this incompatibility. My understanding is that XP does not allow applications to have complete access to the hardware so in order for Nero to work correctly a new compliant version was required. (Visa has continued this move and now applications are not allowed unfettered direct access to hardware... or as I believe none.) This may not be your problem but I know older version of Nero have issues with the newer OSs and subsequent hardware issues. For creating and installing ISO copies to DVD, CD and Harddrives, I have found ImgBurn from http://www.imgburn.com/ is the best program at any price... (Note: It is not for copying DVD/CD programs.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 6:36 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Nero Problem I have a problem with Nero Express. When I try to copy an entire disc, the only available destination is the Image Copier, but it can see the source CD fine. When I try to create a disk from an image, Nero can see only the Image Copier, not the actual CD drive. Any suggestions as to what's wrong? The CD incidentally is a dual-layer CD/DVD burner in an HP box. Arthur _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 08:17:24 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:17:24 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nero Problem In-Reply-To: References: <29f585dd0801021835q5e9f42e1q71dfb2431f695fe2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0801030617x4c20c727jd71855b9679faee2@mail.gmail.com> Thanks. I just downloaded and installed imgBurn. Its looks identical to DVD Decrypter, a product I have grown to love. I removed Nero and will see what imgBurn can do. A. On 1/3/08, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Hi Arthur: > > I do not know whether your situation is similar but when I installed my > older version of Nero on a XP computer, it initially worked fine. After a > number of updates to the XP system Nero started to have some issues. By > the > time SP2 was installed Nero would not work. It required the latest Nero > version to solve this incompatibility. > From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Jan 3 11:27:59 2008 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 11:27:59 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nero Problem In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801030617x4c20c727jd71855b9679faee2@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801021835q5e9f42e1q71dfb2431f695fe2@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0801030617x4c20c727jd71855b9679faee2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: In other words you are through fiddling with Nero? JH -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 8:17 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Nero Problem Thanks. I just downloaded and installed imgBurn. Its looks identical to DVD Decrypter, a product I have grown to love. I removed Nero and will see what imgBurn can do. A. *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From john at winhaven.net Thu Jan 3 11:32:22 2008 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 11:32:22 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nero Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200801031732.m03HWKLY019201@databaseadvisors.com> Jim, Quite witty! - it brought an "ugh" to my throat ;o) -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:28 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Nero Problem In other words you are through fiddling with Nero? JH -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 8:17 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Nero Problem Thanks. I just downloaded and installed imgBurn. Its looks identical to DVD Decrypter, a product I have grown to love. I removed Nero and will see what imgBurn can do. A. *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 11:34:29 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:34:29 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nero Problem In-Reply-To: References: <29f585dd0801021835q5e9f42e1q71dfb2431f695fe2@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0801030617x4c20c727jd71855b9679faee2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0801030934x2ac16c28oec16c39149acf02b@mail.gmail.com> I think so. I can always put it back on should the need arise. On 1/3/08, Hale, Jim wrote: > > > In other words you are through fiddling with Nero? > JH From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jan 3 11:48:38 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:48:38 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nero Problem In-Reply-To: References: <29f585dd0801021835q5e9f42e1q71dfb2431f695fe2@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0801030617x4c20c727jd71855b9679faee2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003801c84e30$df41d750$657aa8c0@M90> They just couldn't keep Toronto lit! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 12:28 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Nero Problem In other words you are through fiddling with Nero? JH -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 8:17 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Nero Problem Thanks. I just downloaded and installed imgBurn. Its looks identical to DVD Decrypter, a product I have grown to love. I removed Nero and will see what imgBurn can do. A. *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 13:02:36 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:02:36 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nero Problem In-Reply-To: <003801c84e30$df41d750$657aa8c0@M90> References: <29f585dd0801021835q5e9f42e1q71dfb2431f695fe2@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0801030617x4c20c727jd71855b9679faee2@mail.gmail.com> <003801c84e30$df41d750$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <29f585dd0801031102v4f5f9bf0k3c5db1604ab3dd73@mail.gmail.com> You got it, man! It's -17 celsius today without the wind chill considered. The up side is that we only caught a chunk of the storm, while Atlantic Canada got buried. 50 centimeters of snow and a 90-km wind. German has a word for this: schadenfreude (taking pleasure in the misery of another). A. On 1/3/08, jwcolby wrote: > > They just couldn't keep Toronto lit! > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 13:20:17 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:20:17 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] XP Pro + Linux Dual Boot Message-ID: <29f585dd0801031120y2246837i66f0bbc652873e7b@mail.gmail.com> My hardware is a duo-core HP box with 2 hard disks and 2 GB RAM. I would like to set this up as a dual-boot XP/Linux machine. The drives are labeled c: and h:. The current boot drive is h:. I have plenty of space on c:, certainly enough to carve off 20 GB for Linux using Partition Magic. But I'm wondering whether to do this or instead go the VMWare route. I use Linux relatively rarely, but would love to have a Linux VM available anytime I need it. If I install VMWare, then how do I create a virtual Linux? I've a couple of Linuxes that boot from the CD and leave your machine untouched, but I think that I'd rather create a VM for it instead, so I could install various packages on it and keep them. Any advice? Gotchas to beware? TIA, Arthur From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jan 3 13:20:48 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:20:48 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nero Problem In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801031102v4f5f9bf0k3c5db1604ab3dd73@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801021835q5e9f42e1q71dfb2431f695fe2@mail.gmail.com><29f585dd0801030617x4c20c727jd71855b9679faee2@mail.gmail.com><003801c84e30$df41d750$657aa8c0@M90> <29f585dd0801031102v4f5f9bf0k3c5db1604ab3dd73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004501c84e3d$bf626f50$657aa8c0@M90> LOL. I call it "Taking pleasure in my own good sense not living there". ;-) I moved from Connecticut to South Carolina precisely for that reason. It is 11 degrees F (feels like -4) in Northfield Ct where I moved from. It is 34 degrees F feels like 34 in Hudson, NC where I moved to. In moments like this I take GREAT pleasure that I do not live there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:03 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Nero Problem You got it, man! It's -17 celsius today without the wind chill considered. The up side is that we only caught a chunk of the storm, while Atlantic Canada got buried. 50 centimeters of snow and a 90-km wind. German has a word for this: schadenfreude (taking pleasure in the misery of another). A. On 1/3/08, jwcolby wrote: > > They just couldn't keep Toronto lit! > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 19:59:38 2008 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 20:59:38 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] XP Pro + Linux Dual Boot In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801031120y2246837i66f0bbc652873e7b@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801031120y2246837i66f0bbc652873e7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 3, 2008 2:20 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > My hardware is a duo-core HP box with 2 hard disks and 2 GB RAM. I would > like to set this up as a dual-boot XP/Linux machine. The drives are labeled > c: and h:. The current boot drive is h:. I have plenty of space on c:, > certainly enough to carve off 20 GB for Linux using Partition Magic. But I'm > wondering whether to do this or instead go the VMWare route. I use Linux > relatively rarely, but would love to have a Linux VM available anytime I > need it. If I install VMWare, then how do I create a virtual Linux? I've a > couple of Linuxes that boot from the CD and leave your machine untouched, > but I think that I'd rather create a VM for it instead, so I could install > various packages on it and keep them. Well, it depends... My desktop is setup with dual boot. My laptop XP with VMWare and Linux VMs. If I had better hardware, I'd prefer the VM route, because of the constant availability of it. I can't speak to a Linux GUI in a VM because I only use command line Linux boxes to simulate web hosting environments that I administer, so I haven't needed to use a GUI in a VM. Given hardware that was good enough to run a Linux VM with a Gui (which I don't have), I'd go that way over dual booting. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 23:56:20 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 00:56:20 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] XP Pro + Linux Dual Boot In-Reply-To: References: <29f585dd0801031120y2246837i66f0bbc652873e7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0801042156v4576d79fqd933d46435bf4167@mail.gmail.com> Does your desktop dual-boot from boot.ini or from grub? I have had nothing but problems trying it from grub, so I'm hoping that you do it using boot.ini and can provide tips on how that's done. Currently the [Operating Systems] portion only has one entry: multi(0)disk(0)partition(1)\windows\="Windows XP Media Center Edition /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn I don't understand how the disk(#)partition(#) would map to the existence of a Linux and Linux swap partitions. I have two drives, h: and c:. I boot off h: and c: is the big drive (250GB). My friend Pete just suggested yet another approach: boot Linux from a memory stick. I have 3 of those, so that in theory could work. I could create a Linux boot there. They are only 2GB each, but that's surely enough room for a Linux playpen. What do you think of that approach? A. On 1/4/08, Bryan Carbonnell wrote: > > > Well, it depends... > > My desktop is setup with dual boot. My laptop XP with VMWare and Linux > VMs. > > If I had better hardware, I'd prefer the VM route, because of the > constant availability of it. > > I can't speak to a Linux GUI in a VM because I only use command line > Linux boxes to simulate web hosting environments that I administer, so > I haven't needed to use a GUI in a VM. > > Given hardware that was good enough to run a Linux VM with a Gui > (which I don't have), I'd go that way over dual booting. From carbonnb at gmail.com Sat Jan 5 08:31:21 2008 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 09:31:21 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] XP Pro + Linux Dual Boot In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801042156v4576d79fqd933d46435bf4167@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801031120y2246837i66f0bbc652873e7b@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0801042156v4576d79fqd933d46435bf4167@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 5, 2008 12:56 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Does your desktop dual-boot from boot.ini or from grub? I have had nothing > but problems trying it from grub, so I'm hoping that you do it using > boot.ini and can provide tips on how that's done. Currently the [Operating > Systems] portion only has one entry: > multi(0)disk(0)partition(1)\windows\="Windows XP Media Center Edition > /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn I use Grub with OpenSuse Linux. I've even used LILO in previous installs. Both have worked fine for me. The Linux boot loaders seem to be the prefered way of doing it. The Windows Boot loaders can cause issues with Linux apparently. I don't know what they are, but I think it has to do with the Windows boot loader not being able to see or boot an OS that is sitting on a HD about a certain cylinder or sector or something like that. Windows and then Linux is the preferred order of installation because of this limitation. Then Grub will see that there is a previous install and add that to the Grub loader as well as the Linux install. What happens is that GRUB will chain the bootloaders. Grub will load, and if you are booting to Windows, it will run the Windows loader to load windows. If you are going into Linux, then it will run the Linux boot up procedure. > I don't understand how the disk(#)partition(#) would map to the existence of > a Linux and Linux swap partitions. I have two drives, h: and c:. I boot off > h: and c: is the big drive (250GB). The Disk# and Partition number have to do with the physical layout of the drive(s) and partitions, but in Windows I'm not sure how they are determined. If you go into the Computer Management Console (compmgmt.msc from the Run box) and Look under disk management it may show you in there, but I'm not really sure. > My friend Pete just suggested yet another approach: boot Linux from a memory > stick. I have 3 of those, so that in theory could work. I could create a > Linux boot there. They are only 2GB each, but that's surely enough room for > a Linux playpen. What do you think of that approach? If your system can boot from a USB drive then you can install Linux to a partition on the hard drive and just have it boot from the key, similar to a DOS boot floppy of old. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jan 5 14:35:01 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 15:35:01 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] X64 Message-ID: <001001c84fda$72906670$657aa8c0@M90> I built a new system last night and this morning, installing Windows Server 2003 X64 and SQL Server 2005 X64. The system currently has a dual proc AMD code but once I get the chance to wring it out I will probably move my quad core in there. The system currently has 4 gigs ram but I have a matching 4 gigs in another system which I will pull out of that system and drop in this one so that I can test X64 with 8 gigs RAM. It will be interesting to see what effect this will have on my large databases. I have some queries that take awhile to run (5+ minutes) that I can run "side by side" on the x32 and x64 systems. Interestingly these same queries dropped from 20-30 minutes down to 5-6 minutes by using "cover queries" that included the PKID and a single field together in a single index, rather than my old method of just using that single field in the index (not including the PKID). The x32 system will have the same processor (different / older motherboard though) running Windows 2003 x32 and SQL Server 2005 x32 with only 4 gigs or ram. I think I will run the same 5 minute query on both systems with 4 gigs, then move the additional 4 gigs into the x64 system and run again, then move the quad core into the x64 system and run again. This will provide a fairly "apples to apples" test of x32 vs. x64, 4 gigs vs. 8 gigs, and dual cores vs. quad cores. Unfortunately the system is low level formatting a 400 gig partition right now which is taking FOREVER! Once I have that 400 gig partition to use to hold the database I will run these tests. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From garykjos at gmail.com Sat Jan 5 15:56:30 2008 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 15:56:30 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] X64 In-Reply-To: <001001c84fda$72906670$657aa8c0@M90> References: <001001c84fda$72906670$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: Some guys have all the fun. I just worked to get my Christmas decorations taken down today and the top put up on the convertible which Ishould have done in Mid November when I last drive it but figured I had a couple more rides yet at that point. Then the cold snap hit. Today we have near 40 so I had my chance to get it put up and I took advantage of it. So I did have some accomplishments at least. Now football is on so that will shoot the rest of the day for me ;-) GK On Jan 5, 2008 2:35 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I built a new system last night and this morning, installing Windows Server > 2003 X64 and SQL Server 2005 X64. The system currently has a dual proc AMD > code but once I get the chance to wring it out I will probably move my quad > core in there. The system currently has 4 gigs ram but I have a matching 4 > gigs in another system which I will pull out of that system and drop in this > one so that I can test X64 with 8 gigs RAM. It will be interesting to see > what effect this will have on my large databases. I have some queries that > take awhile to run (5+ minutes) that I can run "side by side" on the x32 and > x64 systems. > > Interestingly these same queries dropped from 20-30 minutes down to 5-6 > minutes by using "cover queries" that included the PKID and a single field > together in a single index, rather than my old method of just using that > single field in the index (not including the PKID). > > The x32 system will have the same processor (different / older motherboard > though) running Windows 2003 x32 and SQL Server 2005 x32 with only 4 gigs or > ram. I think I will run the same 5 minute query on both systems with 4 > gigs, then move the additional 4 gigs into the x64 system and run again, > then move the quad core into the x64 system and run again. This will > provide a fairly "apples to apples" test of x32 vs. x64, 4 gigs vs. 8 gigs, > and dual cores vs. quad cores. > > Unfortunately the system is low level formatting a 400 gig partition right > now which is taking FOREVER! > > Once I have that 400 gig partition to use to hold the database I will run > these tests. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jan 5 20:13:14 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 21:13:14 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] x64 tests Message-ID: <001c01c85009$b22731e0$657aa8c0@M90> OK, I have the x64 system up and running. I am doing tests on the same four databases. I have: HSID which contains data used in selection criteria, with a PK. 50 million records. AZHSID contains address validated records of name / address fields originally in HSID. With a PK matching the PKs in HSID. 50 million records ZipCodeWorld contains about 80K records of valid zip codes. It has information that allows me to exclude prisons, military FPOs etc. PSM11132 contains all of the queries required for me to fill an actual order of addresses (112000) going out to a client. The order asks for: Source File FIELD Select Codes Description Geography HSID/INF 074 2, 3, 6 OR Female 35 44 HSID/INF 073 2, 3, 6 Female 45-54 AND HSID/INF 091 7-9, A-T INC $50,000+ AND HSID/INF 282 Y Tennis HSID/INF 283 Y OR Golf HSID/INF 284 Y OR Snow Skiing HSID/INF 288 Y OR Bicycling HSID/INF 292 Y OR Running HSID/INF 294 Y OR Horseback Riding HSID/INF 298 Y OR Power Boating HSID/INF 299 Y Sailing AND Zip Code World 015 16980 CBSA Chicago Zip Code World 015 19820 OR CBSA Detroit Zip Code World 015 12580 OR CBSA Baltimore Zip Code World 015 31100 OR CBSA Los Angeles Zip Code World 015 35620 OR CBSA New York Zip Code World 015 37980 OR CBSA Philadelphia Zip Code World 015 47900 CBSA Washington DC As you can see basically they want women 35 to 54, income > 50K who participate in various hobbies, and live in selected big metropolitan areas. In order to prep the order I had to build cover indexes (field and PK) on the hobby fields. I already had cover indexes on the income and PK, and a single cover index on ALL of the age fields plus the PK. I then built FOUR different views. One for Age/Sex, one for income, and one for hobbies. Those three are ANDS so by pulling the PKs for each of those views I could do an inner join to get the AND. From these queries I actually only pulled the PK field itself to minimize data pulled out of the table. I did not need the select data itself, just the PKs for the joins. I then built a fourth view of Zip Code World (ZCW) using the CBSA code that selected ZIPS in specific metropolitan areas. From this view I pulled ONLY the zip field. I built a FIFTH master view that pulled in the four views above, PLUS the AZHSID table. AZHSID contains the PK to match the HSID select views, plus address validated name / address information. That information will be actually extracted and written into a flat file on disk, zipped and sent to the client. So I have age/sex, income, hobbies and AZHSID inner joined. The data pulled is just the PKID and name / address which includes Zip. I then inner join the zip from the ZCW view to limit the addresses to those in the right zip codes. Whew. OK, so the thing I am going to time is the COUNT of the PKs in this big query (how many people match all the criteria and live in the right zips). I am going to time the count on my original system that I actually used to run this order, and then on the new system. The original system (Stonehenge) is a AMD "3800" X2 with 4 gigs ram, Windows 2003 x32, SQL Server 2005 x32, with a dedicated raid controller card with an 8 drive raid 6 array. The new system (W2k3x64) is (currently) an AMD "3800" x2 with 4 gigs ram, Windows 2003 x64, SQL Server 2005 x64, with a pair of 650 gig IDE 100 hard disks. No raid. The databases reside on one of the 650 gig drives and the OS resides on the other. Stonehenge runs the count query in 5:32 (5 minutes, 32 seconds) and counts 630,025 valid addresses with the criteria above, in the zips specified. W2k3x64 runs the query in 9:26 (9 minutes and 32 seconds) and counts 630,025 records (just a check that we are counting the same thing). So the first thing that we see is that the new system is slower. The difference is likely caused by the fact that the Raid array in Stonehenge STREAMS data at 400 mbytes / sec whereas the single disk in W2k3x64 streams MUCH slower, probably around 50 mbytes / second. We do not KNOW that is the reason for the difference at this point, but it is a pretty good bet. I "sacrificed" the video controller from Azul to build the new system (yea, poor planning, forgot the damned video card) so I will probably move the raid array into the new system, or more likely move the new system (and boot disk) into the cabinet that Azul currently occupies. Moving a raid array with 8 disks is not something I want to do if I can avoid it. Next, I am going to pull the other 4 gigs (two 2 gig sticks) out of Azul and move it into W2k3x64. I have a video card on order, will be here next week but for now Azul is dead anyway so I might as well scrounge the memory as well. I did not take CPU and memory usage readings with just the 4 gigs, but with 8 in there both processors are pegging (100%) and the memory usage is maximum (only about 200 megs available) and it is using about 8 gigs of page file as well. W2k3x64 runs the same query in 9:11 after adding two additional sticks of memory and boosting the total to 8 gigs. Oddly, SQL Server has a little control for telling it how much it can have max, and it is maxed at ~2 gig bytes. I was under the impression that it would now allow SQL Server to natively use more ram. Sigh. there is an unchecked box for "Use AWE to allocate memory" which I just checked and am now rerunning the query a third time. With AWE memory enabled, the query ran in 8:27. A slight boost but certainly not stellar. So why is SQL Server not using more memory natively? What I really need to do is create a dual boot with Windows 2003 x32 and SQL Server 2003 x32, and then run the count query again for that. I suspect though that the Raid card and array would do more than anything to bump the speed back up. I am going to swap the quad core processor from Azul and see what that does for me. I think I will swap the view card and memory back in to Azul and try running the same database on Azul. It is virtually identical to Stonehenge. It has a quad core AMD, 4 gigs of memory and an 8 disk raid array on the same controller card that Stonehenge has. I could also TRY to do a dual boot to W2K3x64 but it currently boots off the raid which makes installing the new OS difficult (adds the issue of x64 raid drivers at install time). F6, floppy and all that. I hate that stuff. Well, more later. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jan 8 09:17:15 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:17:15 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] [AccessD] x64 tests In-Reply-To: <001c01c85009$b22731e0$657aa8c0@M90> References: <001c01c85009$b22731e0$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <003701c85209$8d6c56d0$657aa8c0@M90> Azul actually died the other day. The computer shut down suddenly and when I opened it up the Heat Sink Fan was just hanging loose inside of the case. It turns out that two of the three plastic tabs on one side of the foundation that holds the HSF in place had broken off. This is the second time this has happened to me! To be honest though, I think this is my fault. The HSF I use is a rather large affair, heat pipes to a large radiator etc. It is very tough to see down under it and it is very tough to get the retaining bracket correctly hooked over the tabs when the motherboard is mounted in the case. I think I probably did not get the retaining bracket square so the tabs that broke off had a larger shear load. Sigh. Anyway, the motherboard is not usable. I might be able to get the plastic HSF foundation part, it just bolts onto the motherboard. We'll see. I wanted to use one of these motherboards to replace the aging board that runs my Address validation process. If I can't get the bracket, I will likely just buy the same little motherboard that I used for the Windows Home Server. In the meantime I decided to just go with it and put the new motherboard I bought last week into the case that Azul occupied. It has the first Areca Raid controller that I purchased and the eight 320 gig drives. I also decided to install the quad core processor onto the motherboard BEFORE putting the motherboard into the case so that I can inspect the mounting bracket, get is square and hopefully avoid the issues I had with Azul. When I brought up the quad core, the motherboard complained about the two different pairs of memory sticks so I had to pull one out to get it running. The sticks are different brands and timings. Both are DDR2 800 but one set was a CAS 5 and the other set CAS 6. People advise against using mismatched sticks like that but my experience has been that if you use "worst case", in this case set the motherboard to use CAS 6, then it works just fine. I will probably drop the other set back in later but to get it to boot and run I had to pull it out. So... W2k3x64 now lives in the case where Azul formerly resided. I got the Raid drivers installed so that W2k3x64 can see the raid array, and I am copying the databases that I was testing in the x64 tests below onto that raid array. I should soon have a benchmark with Windows 2003x64 and SQL Server 2005x64, using 4 gigs of RAM. The 8 gig benchmark will follow if the memory will place nice together in this motherboard and with this processor. Unfortunately this also means I will not be getting a Windows x64 / Sql Server 2005 X64 benchmark on a dual core. The processor socket on this new motherboard is turned 90 degrees from the old motherboard and is even more difficult to get the HSF seated properly with the board installed, and it is a ROYAL PITA to pull the motherboard so it just isn't worth the pain to me just for a benchmark. >>>>>>>>>>> So the answer is... 6:36 seconds to run the count query on the new system. >>>>>>>>>>> >W2k3x64 runs the query in 9:26 (9 minutes and 26 seconds) and counts 630,025 records (just a check that we are counting the same thing). This was the previous run for W2k3x64. As discussed in the previous email, the old W2Kx64 only had a pair of IDE 100 drives, and Windows and SQL Server were installed on one, while the DATA database files were installed on the other. In the new system Windows boots off of an IDE 100 drive, AND the SQL Server is installed there and the SQL Server system databases reside there. Basically I just moved the old Boot drive into the new chassis (where the raid array lives), and the boot drive already had Windows 2k3x64 and SQL Server 2005x64 installed on that C: drive. Because SQL Server installed on C: it put its system databases on that drive as well. The main databases now reside on the raid array as opposed to being on the second IDE drive in the old W2Kx64 system. So while I did pick up a 33% decrease in the time to do the count by moving the database from a single IDE drive onto the RAID array, it is still well below the 5:26 required by Stonehenge which is Windows 2K3x32 and SQL Server 2005x32. It does show however what a fast RAID array does for the system! And in the end I still don't know anything, such is the problem with doing benchmarks in the real world. Is it the fact that Windows is running off an IDE instead of the raid? Or the SQL Server system databases running on the IDE? Or is W2K3x64 and SQL Server 2005x64 just slower than the 32 bit brethren? Or is it something else entirely? You really HAVE to change one variable at a time and circumstances made that inconvenient to say the least. According to benchmarks the quad core I am using should be somewhat faster that the dual core I am using. It is quad core rather than dual core so if Windows and SQL Server can use the extra cores it SHOULD give the process a boost. It is pretty hard to sort out what the problem is though and a bit discouraging because of that. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Cc: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] x64 tests OK, I have the x64 system up and running. I am doing tests on the same four databases. I have: HSID which contains data used in selection criteria, with a PK. 50 million records. AZHSID contains address validated records of name / address fields originally in HSID. With a PK matching the PKs in HSID. 50 million records ZipCodeWorld contains about 80K records of valid zip codes. It has information that allows me to exclude prisons, military FPOs etc. PSM11132 contains all of the queries required for me to fill an actual order of addresses (112000) going out to a client. The order asks for: Source File FIELD Select Codes Description Geography HSID/INF 074 2, 3, 6 OR Female 35 44 HSID/INF 073 2, 3, 6 Female 45-54 AND HSID/INF 091 7-9, A-T INC $50,000+ AND HSID/INF 282 Y Tennis HSID/INF 283 Y OR Golf HSID/INF 284 Y OR Snow Skiing HSID/INF 288 Y OR Bicycling HSID/INF 292 Y OR Running HSID/INF 294 Y OR Horseback Riding HSID/INF 298 Y OR Power Boating HSID/INF 299 Y Sailing AND Zip Code World 015 16980 CBSA Chicago Zip Code World 015 19820 OR CBSA Detroit Zip Code World 015 12580 OR CBSA Baltimore Zip Code World 015 31100 OR CBSA Los Angeles Zip Code World 015 35620 OR CBSA New York Zip Code World 015 37980 OR CBSA Philadelphia Zip Code World 015 47900 CBSA Washington DC As you can see basically they want women 35 to 54, income > 50K who participate in various hobbies, and live in selected big metropolitan areas. In order to prep the order I had to build cover indexes (field and PK) on the hobby fields. I already had cover indexes on the income and PK, and a single cover index on ALL of the age fields plus the PK. I then built FOUR different views. One for Age/Sex, one for income, and one for hobbies. Those three are ANDS so by pulling the PKs for each of those views I could do an inner join to get the AND. From these queries I actually only pulled the PK field itself to minimize data pulled out of the table. I did not need the select data itself, just the PKs for the joins. I then built a fourth view of Zip Code World (ZCW) using the CBSA code that selected ZIPS in specific metropolitan areas. From this view I pulled ONLY the zip field. I built a FIFTH master view that pulled in the four views above, PLUS the AZHSID table. AZHSID contains the PK to match the HSID select views, plus address validated name / address information. That information will be actually extracted and written into a flat file on disk, zipped and sent to the client. So I have age/sex, income, hobbies and AZHSID inner joined. The data pulled is just the PKID and name / address which includes Zip. I then inner join the zip from the ZCW view to limit the addresses to those in the right zip codes. Whew. OK, so the thing I am going to time is the COUNT of the PKs in this big query (how many people match all the criteria and live in the right zips). I am going to time the count on my original system that I actually used to run this order, and then on the new system. The original system (Stonehenge) is a AMD "3800" X2 with 4 gigs ram, Windows 2003 x32, SQL Server 2005 x32, with a dedicated raid controller card with an 8 drive raid 6 array. The new system (W2k3x64) is (currently) an AMD "3800" x2 with 4 gigs ram, Windows 2003 x64, SQL Server 2005 x64, with a pair of 650 gig IDE 100 hard disks. No raid. The databases reside on one of the 650 gig drives and the OS resides on the other. Stonehenge runs the count query in 5:32 (5 minutes, 32 seconds) and counts 630,025 valid addresses with the criteria above, in the zips specified. W2k3x64 runs the query in 9:26 (9 minutes and 26 seconds) and counts 630,025 records (just a check that we are counting the same thing). So the first thing that we see is that the new system is slower. The difference is likely caused by the fact that the Raid array in Stonehenge STREAMS data at 400 mbytes / sec whereas the single disk in W2k3x64 streams MUCH slower, probably around 50 mbytes / second. We do not KNOW that is the reason for the difference at this point, but it is a pretty good bet. I "sacrificed" the video controller from Azul to build the new system (yea, poor planning, forgot the damned video card) so I will probably move the raid array into the new system, or more likely move the new system (and boot disk) into the cabinet that Azul currently occupies. Moving a raid array with 8 disks is not something I want to do if I can avoid it. Next, I am going to pull the other 4 gigs (two 2 gig sticks) out of Azul and move it into W2k3x64. I have a video card on order, will be here next week but for now Azul is dead anyway so I might as well scrounge the memory as well. I did not take CPU and memory usage readings with just the 4 gigs, but with 8 in there both processors are pegging (100%) and the memory usage is maximum (only about 200 megs available) and it is using about 8 gigs of page file as well. W2k3x64 runs the same query in 9:11 after adding two additional sticks of memory and boosting the total to 8 gigs. Oddly, SQL Server has a little control for telling it how much it can have max, and it is maxed at ~2 gig bytes. I was under the impression that it would now allow SQL Server to natively use more ram. Sigh. there is an unchecked box for "Use AWE to allocate memory" which I just checked and am now rerunning the query a third time. With AWE memory enabled, the query ran in 8:27. A slight boost but certainly not stellar. So why is SQL Server not using more memory natively? What I really need to do is create a dual boot with Windows 2003 x32 and SQL Server 2003 x32, and then run the count query again for that. I suspect though that the Raid card and array would do more than anything to bump the speed back up. I am going to swap the quad core processor from Azul and see what that does for me. I think I will swap the view card and memory back in to Azul and try running the same database on Azul. It is virtually identical to Stonehenge. It has a quad core AMD, 4 gigs of memory and an 8 disk raid array on the same controller card that Stonehenge has. I could also TRY to do a dual boot to W2K3x64 but it currently boots off the raid which makes installing the new OS difficult (adds the issue of x64 raid drivers at install time). F6, floppy and all that. I hate that stuff. Well, more later. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 10:28:56 2008 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:28:56 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] [AccessD] x64 tests In-Reply-To: <003701c85209$8d6c56d0$657aa8c0@M90> References: <001c01c85009$b22731e0$657aa8c0@M90> <003701c85209$8d6c56d0$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: You are hard on your computers John ;-) GK On 1/8/08, jwcolby wrote: > Azul actually died the other day. -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jan 8 10:58:17 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 11:58:17 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] [AccessD] x64 tests In-Reply-To: References: <001c01c85009$b22731e0$657aa8c0@M90><003701c85209$8d6c56d0$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <006401c85217$abb32930$657aa8c0@M90> LOL, I guess so. It had been running for days, then suddenly just shut off. Thank goodness for the temperature sensors in modern processors, had this been an old Athlon the processor would have smoked. The tabs broke off and the HSF just fell off. No heatsink and the processor gets mighty uncomfortable. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 11:29 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Cc: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com; Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] [AccessD] x64 tests You are hard on your computers John ;-) GK On 1/8/08, jwcolby wrote: > Azul actually died the other day. -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jan 8 11:33:36 2008 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 09:33:36 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] [AccessD] x64 tests In-Reply-To: <006401c85217$abb32930$657aa8c0@M90> References: <001c01c85009$b22731e0$657aa8c0@M90> <003701c85209$8d6c56d0$657aa8c0@M90> <006401c85217$abb32930$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <7496A41DBBCA4D5EA3D9830E4090090C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Does the motherboard have a heat sensor? Most of the newer boards have and if turned on and setup properly, in the BIOS, will shut down a system that is over-heating. Sorry to hear of the demise of Azul. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 8:58 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] [AccessD] x64 tests LOL, I guess so. It had been running for days, then suddenly just shut off. Thank goodness for the temperature sensors in modern processors, had this been an old Athlon the processor would have smoked. The tabs broke off and the HSF just fell off. No heatsink and the processor gets mighty uncomfortable. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 11:29 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Cc: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com; Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] [AccessD] x64 tests You are hard on your computers John ;-) GK On 1/8/08, jwcolby wrote: > Azul actually died the other day. -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jan 8 13:26:04 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:26:04 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] [AccessD] x64 tests In-Reply-To: <7496A41DBBCA4D5EA3D9830E4090090C@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <001c01c85009$b22731e0$657aa8c0@M90><003701c85209$8d6c56d0$657aa8c0@M90><006401c85217$abb32930$657aa8c0@M90> <7496A41DBBCA4D5EA3D9830E4090090C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <006c01c8522c$4fd69240$657aa8c0@M90> Yes it does. Nothing fried, it just can't be used without the HSF properly bolted in place. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 12:34 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] [AccessD] x64 tests Does the motherboard have a heat sensor? Most of the newer boards have and if turned on and setup properly, in the BIOS, will shut down a system that is over-heating. Sorry to hear of the demise of Azul. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 8:58 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] [AccessD] x64 tests LOL, I guess so. It had been running for days, then suddenly just shut off. Thank goodness for the temperature sensors in modern processors, had this been an old Athlon the processor would have smoked. The tabs broke off and the HSF just fell off. No heatsink and the processor gets mighty uncomfortable. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 11:29 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Cc: dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com; Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] [AccessD] x64 tests You are hard on your computers John ;-) GK On 1/8/08, jwcolby wrote: > Azul actually died the other day. -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Jan 9 14:06:06 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 15:06:06 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Compose email containing HTML Message-ID: <29f585dd0801091206j46f8d63cs8e3e5bd084c00b89@mail.gmail.com> Can anyone tell me how to compose an email message that is composed entirely of HTML with some images embedded? I assume that the email client will be Outlook (I haven't met the client yet). I also assume that the given message will be sent to lots of people, perhaps individuated with a typical "Hello, John. Here is your latest..." I know how to send the same message to dozens of people from Access to Outlook, but that's text-only, not HTML + pics. TIA, Arthur From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Jan 9 18:54:19 2008 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin at Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:54:19 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Cuneiform Message-ID: <006201c85323$55843e70$0301a8c0@HAL9005> OK, here's a stumper: Noah needs a cuneiform true type font - but not Ugaritic or Persian. Needs to be ancient Mesopotamian. I can't find one. (Are we surprised?) Anybody happen to have an ancient Mesopotamian cuneiform ttf in their library? (Must be someone. It's not that uncommon, is it? :o)) Rocky From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Jan 9 19:08:24 2008 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin at Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:08:24 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] FW: Cuneiform Message-ID: <006801c85325$4d20f500$0301a8c0@HAL9005> OK, here's a stumper: Noah needs a cuneiform true type font - but not Ugaritic or Persian. Needs to be ancient Mesopotamian. I can't find one. (Are we surprised?) Anybody happen to have an ancient Mesopotamian cuneiform ttf in their library? (Must be someone. It's not that uncommon, is it? :o)) Rocky From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Jan 9 19:26:34 2008 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 20:26:34 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Cuneiform References: <006201c85323$55843e70$0301a8c0@HAL9005> Message-ID: <012601c85327$dc65fb00$0202a8c0@Laptop> Hi Rocky, That is a tough one. Maybe the links here (bottom of page) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform_script esp: www.peust.de/sumerian.html Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin at Beach Access Software" To: Cc: "List" Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 7:54 PM Subject: [dba-Tech] Cuneiform > OK, here's a stumper: Noah needs a cuneiform true type font - but not > Ugaritic or Persian. Needs to be ancient Mesopotamian. > > I can't find one. (Are we surprised?) > > Anybody happen to have an ancient Mesopotamian cuneiform ttf in their > library? (Must be someone. It's not that uncommon, is it? :o)) > > Rocky > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Jan 9 19:34:41 2008 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin at Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:34:41 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Cuneiform In-Reply-To: <012601c85327$dc65fb00$0202a8c0@Laptop> References: <006201c85323$55843e70$0301a8c0@HAL9005> <012601c85327$dc65fb00$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: <008601c85328$f8d56130$0301a8c0@HAL9005> MM: Thanks. He tried that one. But it's Sumerian. Not the same (who knew?) Rocky -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 5:27 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Cuneiform Hi Rocky, That is a tough one. Maybe the links here (bottom of page) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform_script esp: www.peust.de/sumerian.html Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin at Beach Access Software" To: Cc: "List" Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 7:54 PM Subject: [dba-Tech] Cuneiform > OK, here's a stumper: Noah needs a cuneiform true type font - but not > Ugaritic or Persian. Needs to be ancient Mesopotamian. > > I can't find one. (Are we surprised?) > > Anybody happen to have an ancient Mesopotamian cuneiform ttf in their > library? (Must be someone. It's not that uncommon, is it? :o)) > > Rocky > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1214 - Release Date: 1/8/2008 1:38 PM From tinanfields at torchlake.com Wed Jan 9 19:52:33 2008 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 20:52:33 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] FW: Cuneiform In-Reply-To: <006801c85325$4d20f500$0301a8c0@HAL9005> References: <006801c85325$4d20f500$0301a8c0@HAL9005> Message-ID: <47857A61.6000004@torchlake.com> Rocky, Here are a few links to some cuneiform fonts - I see Sumerian, Old Persian, and the like. Mesopotamia covered a lot of area, so maybe some of these will help. http://gmalingue.free.fr/ http://www.peust.de/sumerian.html http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/rk_fonts/ Tina Rocky Smolin at Beach Access Software wrote: > > OK, here's a stumper: Noah needs a cuneiform true type font - but not > Ugaritic or Persian. Needs to be ancient Mesopotamian. > > I can't find one. (Are we surprised?) > > Anybody happen to have an ancient Mesopotamian cuneiform ttf in their > library? (Must be someone. It's not that uncommon, is it? :o)) > > Rocky > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From carbonnb at gmail.com Wed Jan 9 20:35:17 2008 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 21:35:17 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Compose email containing HTML In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801091206j46f8d63cs8e3e5bd084c00b89@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801091206j46f8d63cs8e3e5bd084c00b89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 9, 2008 3:06 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Can anyone tell me how to compose an email message that is composed entirely > of HTML with some images embedded? I assume that the email client will be > Outlook (I haven't met the client yet). I also assume that the given message > will be sent to lots of people, perhaps individuated with a typical "Hello, > John. Here is your latest..." I know how to send the same message to dozens > of people from Access to Outlook, but that's text-only, not HTML + pics. Can't say I can do it from Access/Outlook, but I did write a Python script to do it on a Linux server with access to the actual mail server. What I can say is make sure that you format it correctly with all the MIME parts, and don't forget to include a Plain Text part for those that despise HTML mail, such as myself. :) I would send you a couple of links that helped me out when I was doing it, but may laptop HDD crashed Monday morning, causing me to lose all my favourites. Here are a couple anyway that I just dug up from my RSS Reader: http://blogs.sun.com/chienr/entry/plaintext_vs_html_email http://www.bensmawfield.com/blog/?p=6 http://www.campaignmonitor.com/blog/archives/2007/09/why_we_need_web_standards_supp_1.html -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Jan 9 20:51:42 2008 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin at Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:51:42 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] FW: Cuneiform In-Reply-To: <47857A61.6000004@torchlake.com> References: <006801c85325$4d20f500$0301a8c0@HAL9005> <47857A61.6000004@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <009201c85333$bb0fc6f0$0301a8c0@HAL9005> Tina: Thanks. Checked those sites but no luck. This is the one we're looking for: http://www.loyno.edu/~seduffy/cuneiform.jpg Rocky -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 5:53 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FW: Cuneiform Rocky, Here are a few links to some cuneiform fonts - I see Sumerian, Old Persian, and the like. Mesopotamia covered a lot of area, so maybe some of these will help. http://gmalingue.free.fr/ http://www.peust.de/sumerian.html http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/rk_fonts/ Tina Rocky Smolin at Beach Access Software wrote: > > OK, here's a stumper: Noah needs a cuneiform true type font - but not > Ugaritic or Persian. Needs to be ancient Mesopotamian. > > I can't find one. (Are we surprised?) > > Anybody happen to have an ancient Mesopotamian cuneiform ttf in their > library? (Must be someone. It's not that uncommon, is it? :o)) > > Rocky > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1214 - Release Date: 1/8/2008 1:38 PM From joeo at appoli.com Wed Jan 9 22:36:23 2008 From: joeo at appoli.com (Joe O'Connell) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 23:36:23 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Compose email containing HTML In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801091206j46f8d63cs8e3e5bd084c00b89@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801091206j46f8d63cs8e3e5bd084c00b89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Arthur, If you do not need to keep a copy in your Outlook sent folder, the easiest way that I have found is to use CDO. It is extremely easy to send an email with either plain text or HTML. I have not performed any timing tests, but it seems to process email requests much faster that Outlook. Complete instructions can be found at http://www.paulsadowski.com/WSH/cdo.htm Joe O'Connell -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 3:06 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Compose email containing HTML Can anyone tell me how to compose an email message that is composed entirely of HTML with some images embedded? I assume that the email client will be Outlook (I haven't met the client yet). I also assume that the given message will be sent to lots of people, perhaps individuated with a typical "Hello, John. Here is your latest..." I know how to send the same message to dozens of people from Access to Outlook, but that's text-only, not HTML + pics. TIA, Arthur _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Jan 10 01:08:26 2008 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:08:26 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Compose email containing HTML Message-ID: Hi Arthur I wouldn't rely on Outlook. CDO is the free choice, but if you are prepared spending some bucks I can recommend the Chilkat mail component: http://www.chilkatsoft.com/email-activex.asp Lots of code example is on-line. Here for creating HTML mail: http://www.example-code.com/vb/vbSendHtml1.asp If the client needs a copy of the outgoing mail, just bcc the client's e-mail account. /gustav >>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 09-01-2008 21:06 >>> Can anyone tell me how to compose an email message that is composed entirely of HTML with some images embedded? I assume that the email client will be Outlook (I haven't met the client yet). I also assume that the given message will be sent to lots of people, perhaps individuated with a typical "Hello, John. Here is your latest..." I know how to send the same message to dozens of people from Access to Outlook, but that's text-only, not HTML + pics. TIA, Arthur From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 06:53:43 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 07:53:43 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] FW: Cuneiform In-Reply-To: <009201c85333$bb0fc6f0$0301a8c0@HAL9005> References: <006801c85325$4d20f500$0301a8c0@HAL9005> <47857A61.6000004@torchlake.com> <009201c85333$bb0fc6f0$0301a8c0@HAL9005> Message-ID: <29f585dd0801100453j7bd8c984u256a380f568022a9@mail.gmail.com> Now if you can only find a printer that can handle stone tablets, you're really in business (selling fake antiquities). A. On 1/9/08, Rocky Smolin at Beach Access Software wrote: > > Tina: > > Thanks. Checked those sites but no luck. This is the one we're looking > for: http://www.loyno.edu/~seduffy/cuneiform.jpg > > Rocky > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 5:53 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FW: Cuneiform > > Rocky, > > Here are a few links to some cuneiform fonts - I see Sumerian, Old > Persian, > and the like. Mesopotamia covered a lot of area, so maybe some of these > will help. > http://gmalingue.free.fr/ > http://www.peust.de/sumerian.html > http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/rk_fonts/ > > Tina > > Rocky Smolin at Beach Access Software wrote: > > > > OK, here's a stumper: Noah needs a cuneiform true type font - but not > > Ugaritic or Persian. Needs to be ancient Mesopotamian. > > > > I can't find one. (Are we surprised?) > > > > Anybody happen to have an ancient Mesopotamian cuneiform ttf in their > > library? (Must be someone. It's not that uncommon, is it? :o)) > > > > Rocky > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-Tech mailing list > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1214 - Release Date: 1/8/2008 > 1:38 PM > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 07:03:17 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:03:17 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Compose email containing HTML In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29f585dd0801100503w1e0132bdrf42b01517d37593c@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for this, Gustav. On 1/10/08, Gustav Brock wrote: > > Hi Arthur > > I wouldn't rely on Outlook. CDO is the free choice, but if you are > prepared spending some bucks I can recommend the Chilkat mail component: > > http://www.chilkatsoft.com/email-activex.asp > > Lots of code example is on-line. Here for creating HTML mail: > > http://www.example-code.com/vb/vbSendHtml1.asp > > If the client needs a copy of the outgoing mail, just bcc the client's > e-mail account. > > /gustav > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 11:04:42 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:04:42 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Full-Time v. Contract Message-ID: <29f585dd0801100904w5726df1ducd3efc2f62dc1a46@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone have any useful tips on how to calculate a salaried position v. a contract? Obviously a contract should pay more, since there are no benefits (dental plan, holidays, etc.), but I've been a contractor for ages and lately have been asked if I'd take a position instead. I can see the merits to switching, but I can also see downsides. Let's assume for the sake of simple argument that your contract wage is $100/hr, and that the position offers $x + dental plan, 3 weeks holidays, the opportunity to take a course or two a year at company expense, etc., not to mention the illusion of permanence. Fact is, I don't think that I've ever worked 49 weeks in a row as a contractor. So the simple calculation of 40 * 50 * 100 misses the mark by a wide margin. Any rules of thumb? Any on-line calculators for this sort of thing? TIA, Arthur From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Jan 10 11:38:08 2008 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin at Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:38:08 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Full-Time v. Contract In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801100904w5726df1ducd3efc2f62dc1a46@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801100904w5726df1ducd3efc2f62dc1a46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003a01c853af$90ce98e0$0301a8c0@HAL9005> Benefits are worth 30-50% of base pay. Convert your annual salary to hourly by dividing by 2000 (40 hours a week x 50 weeks). Add in 30-50%. Is it > $100? You could also calculate the number of hours of paid time off - holidays, sick, etc., multiply by the imputed hourly rate, and add that to the base. Then also add in what you're going to save for dental and any other bennies they're offering - payments into a retirement plan, etc.. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:05 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Full-Time v. Contract Does anyone have any useful tips on how to calculate a salaried position v. a contract? Obviously a contract should pay more, since there are no benefits (dental plan, holidays, etc.), but I've been a contractor for ages and lately have been asked if I'd take a position instead. I can see the merits to switching, but I can also see downsides. Let's assume for the sake of simple argument that your contract wage is $100/hr, and that the position offers $x + dental plan, 3 weeks holidays, the opportunity to take a course or two a year at company expense, etc., not to mention the illusion of permanence. Fact is, I don't think that I've ever worked 49 weeks in a row as a contractor. So the simple calculation of 40 * 50 * 100 misses the mark by a wide margin. Any rules of thumb? Any on-line calculators for this sort of thing? TIA, Arthur _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date: 1/9/2008 10:16 AM From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 12:02:57 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:02:57 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Full-Time v. Contract In-Reply-To: <003a01c853af$90ce98e0$0301a8c0@HAL9005> References: <29f585dd0801100904w5726df1ducd3efc2f62dc1a46@mail.gmail.com> <003a01c853af$90ce98e0$0301a8c0@HAL9005> Message-ID: <29f585dd0801101002g484507adkf75e82e20959e937@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Rocky. That's a good start. A. On 1/10/08, Rocky Smolin at Beach Access Software wrote: > > Benefits are worth 30-50% of base pay. Convert your annual salary to > hourly > by dividing by 2000 (40 hours a week x 50 weeks). Add in 30-50%. Is it > > $100? You could also calculate the number of hours of paid time off - > holidays, sick, etc., multiply by the imputed hourly rate, and add that to > the base. Then also add in what you're going to save for dental and any > other bennies they're offering - payments into a retirement plan, etc.. > > Rocky > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:05 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: [dba-Tech] Full-Time v. Contract > > Does anyone have any useful tips on how to calculate a salaried position > v. > a contract? Obviously a contract should pay more, since there are no > benefits (dental plan, holidays, etc.), but I've been a contractor for > ages > and lately have been asked if I'd take a position instead. I can see the > merits to switching, but I can also see downsides. Let's assume for the > sake > of simple argument that your contract wage is $100/hr, and that the > position > offers $x + dental plan, 3 weeks holidays, the opportunity to take a > course > or two a year at company expense, etc., not to mention the illusion of > permanence. Fact is, I don't think that I've ever worked 49 weeks in a row > as a contractor. So the simple calculation of 40 * 50 * 100 misses the > mark > by a wide margin. > > Any rules of thumb? Any on-line calculators for this sort of thing? > > TIA, > Arthur > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date: 1/9/2008 > 10:16 AM > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From garykjos at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 12:47:22 2008 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:47:22 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Full-Time v. Contract In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801100904w5726df1ducd3efc2f62dc1a46@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801100904w5726df1ducd3efc2f62dc1a46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I've switched back and forth a couple times now. I extend out the numbers to and annual basis. Use your last year contracting actuals if you have that. Then factor in how much you currently are paying for the dental etc if you have them and then you have a better comparison to what the "real job" will be verses your contracting wages. And don't think that just because you have a regular full time job you have to quit all your contracting work either....as long as it's not a conflict of interest and it's OK with your employer you might want to keep some of your contracting clients for on the side work. My biggest problem with the switch was when i went from employee to contractor I never wanted to take any time off at first because i always was thinking about how much it was costing me to not be billing for those hours. Then when I went back to a salary position I missed the freedom of being able to take as much time off as I wanted.. The feeling of only having two weeks vacation to start was kind of a constricting one. Good luck with your decision. GK On 1/10/08, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Does anyone have any useful tips on how to calculate a salaried position v. > a contract? Obviously a contract should pay more, since there are no > benefits (dental plan, holidays, etc.), but I've been a contractor for ages > and lately have been asked if I'd take a position instead. I can see the > merits to switching, but I can also see downsides. Let's assume for the sake > of simple argument that your contract wage is $100/hr, and that the position > offers $x + dental plan, 3 weeks holidays, the opportunity to take a course > or two a year at company expense, etc., not to mention the illusion of > permanence. Fact is, I don't think that I've ever worked 49 weeks in a row > as a contractor. So the simple calculation of 40 * 50 * 100 misses the mark > by a wide margin. > > Any rules of thumb? Any on-line calculators for this sort of thing? > > TIA, > Arthur > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 17:31:03 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:31:03 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] A reader wants a good book recommendation for learning Excel functions Message-ID: <00aa01c853e0$df5ddf30$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Anyone have a favorite book on Excel functions? I think he wants more help than Help provides -- good examples using them in real world situations. Susan H. From jon at tydda.plus.com Thu Jan 10 17:37:49 2008 From: jon at tydda.plus.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:37:49 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] A reader wants a good book recommendation for learningExcel functions In-Reply-To: <00aa01c853e0$df5ddf30$4b3a8343@SusanOne> References: <00aa01c853e0$df5ddf30$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Message-ID: <006101c853e1$cfa5dd80$0400a8c0@jt2b> Any version of "Excel for Dummies" by John Walkenbach is good , and I've heard good things about "This isn't Excel, it's magic!" by Bob Umlas, although that might be a little more advanced. Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: 10 January 2008 23:31 To: DBA Tech List Subject: [dba-Tech] A reader wants a good book recommendation for learningExcel functions Anyone have a favorite book on Excel functions? I think he wants more help than Help provides -- good examples using them in real world situations. Susan H. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This email has been verified as Virus free. Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 17:39:24 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:39:24 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] A reader wants a good book recommendation forlearningExcel functions References: <00aa01c853e0$df5ddf30$4b3a8343@SusanOne> <006101c853e1$cfa5dd80$0400a8c0@jt2b> Message-ID: <00b401c853e2$0bb0a760$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Bob Umlas has a book on Excel? I thought he gave up on Excel years ago! How about that! ;) Susan H. > Any version of "Excel for Dummies" by John Walkenbach is good , and I've > heard good things about "This isn't Excel, it's magic!" by Bob Umlas, > although that might be a little more advanced. > > > Jon > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: 10 January 2008 23:31 > To: DBA Tech List > Subject: [dba-Tech] A reader wants a good book recommendation for > learningExcel functions > > Anyone have a favorite book on Excel functions? I think he wants more help > than Help provides -- good examples using them in real world situations. > > Susan H. > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This email has been verified as Virus free. > Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jon at tydda.plus.com Thu Jan 10 17:50:29 2008 From: jon at tydda.plus.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:50:29 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] A reader wants a good book recommendationforlearningExcel functions In-Reply-To: <00b401c853e2$0bb0a760$4b3a8343@SusanOne> References: <00aa01c853e0$df5ddf30$4b3a8343@SusanOne><006101c853e1$cfa5dd80$0400a8c0@jt2b> <00b401c853e2$0bb0a760$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Message-ID: <006501c853e3$94bee840$0400a8c0@jt2b> Yeah, he's still going on Excel-L which is where I know him from, and how I found these lists btw :-) Think he attained MVP status a couple of years back too. Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: 10 January 2008 23:39 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] A reader wants a good book recommendationforlearningExcel functions Bob Umlas has a book on Excel? I thought he gave up on Excel years ago! How about that! ;) Susan H. > Any version of "Excel for Dummies" by John Walkenbach is good , and > I've heard good things about "This isn't Excel, it's magic!" by Bob > Umlas, although that might be a little more advanced. > > > Jon > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan > Harkins > Sent: 10 January 2008 23:31 > To: DBA Tech List > Subject: [dba-Tech] A reader wants a good book recommendation for > learningExcel functions > > Anyone have a favorite book on Excel functions? I think he wants more > help than Help provides -- good examples using them in real world situations. > > Susan H. > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This email has been verified as Virus free. > Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This email has been verified as Virus free. Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 18:21:06 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:21:06 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] A reader wants a good bookrecommendationforlearningExcel functions References: <00aa01c853e0$df5ddf30$4b3a8343@SusanOne><006101c853e1$cfa5dd80$0400a8c0@jt2b><00b401c853e2$0bb0a760$4b3a8343@SusanOne> <006501c853e3$94bee840$0400a8c0@jt2b> Message-ID: <00bd01c853e7$dd4693c0$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Would you please tell him hello from me! I've been trying to find an email address for him and even joined LinkedIn just to get in touch with him but you can't -- you have to upgrade to actually talk to anybody -- what a racket! ;) Bob use to contribute to The Cobb Group's Excel journals -- that's how I know him. He was good at Excel, one of the best. I thought he'd given up Excel years ago. Susan H. > Yeah, he's still going on Excel-L which is where I know him from, and how > I > found these lists btw :-) > > Think he attained MVP status a couple of years back too. > > > Jon > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: 10 January 2008 23:39 > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] A reader wants a good book > recommendationforlearningExcel functions > > Bob Umlas has a book on Excel? I thought he gave up on Excel years ago! > How > about that! ;) > > Susan H. > > >> Any version of "Excel for Dummies" by John Walkenbach is good , and >> I've heard good things about "This isn't Excel, it's magic!" by Bob >> Umlas, although that might be a little more advanced. >> >> >> Jon >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan >> Harkins >> Sent: 10 January 2008 23:31 >> To: DBA Tech List >> Subject: [dba-Tech] A reader wants a good book recommendation for >> learningExcel functions >> >> Anyone have a favorite book on Excel functions? I think he wants more >> help than Help provides -- good examples using them in real world > situations. >> >> Susan H. >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> This email has been verified as Virus free. >> Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This email has been verified as Virus free. > Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 18:36:11 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:36:11 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] A reader wants a good bookrecommendationforlearningExcel functions References: <00aa01c853e0$df5ddf30$4b3a8343@SusanOne><006101c853e1$cfa5dd80$0400a8c0@jt2b><00b401c853e2$0bb0a760$4b3a8343@SusanOne> <006501c853e3$94bee840$0400a8c0@jt2b> Message-ID: <00e101c853e9$fa8848a0$4b3a8343@SusanOne> OH yeah, if he doesn't remember me, don't worry -- it won't hurt my feelings. There's really no reason why he should. It's been a long time. Susan H. > Yeah, he's still going on Excel-L which is where I know him from, and how > I > found these lists btw :-) > > Think he attained MVP status a couple of years back too. > > > Jon > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: 10 January 2008 23:39 > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] A reader wants a good book > recommendationforlearningExcel functions > > Bob Umlas has a book on Excel? I thought he gave up on Excel years ago! > How > about that! ;) > > Susan H. > > >> Any version of "Excel for Dummies" by John Walkenbach is good , and >> I've heard good things about "This isn't Excel, it's magic!" by Bob >> Umlas, although that might be a little more advanced. >> >> >> Jon >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan >> Harkins >> Sent: 10 January 2008 23:31 >> To: DBA Tech List >> Subject: [dba-Tech] A reader wants a good book recommendation for >> learningExcel functions >> >> Anyone have a favorite book on Excel functions? I think he wants more >> help than Help provides -- good examples using them in real world > situations. >> >> Susan H. >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> This email has been verified as Virus free. >> Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > This email has been verified as Virus free. > Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jan 10 21:00:32 2008 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:00:32 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Full-Time v. Contract In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801100904w5726df1ducd3efc2f62dc1a46@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801100904w5726df1ducd3efc2f62dc1a46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <158F65DDCE75457F91BDFB30FEC588B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Arthur: When working for a Salary and accepting the normal set of basic benefits it usually costs the employer about 50% more. That is, if you are getting paid $35.00 per hour from an employer, on salary, the employer will be required to pay an additional, 2 to 3 weeks holidays, 50% CPP, 50% Unemployment insurance, super-annulation, medical, dental, and then the cost of accounting and filling etc. In addition they have to pay for your work location, phone, (an cell phone needed), the costs of adding and supporting you within their infrastructure. So for an employer to pay you $35.00 per hour it will cost them $70.00 per hour. They will probably have to bill you out at over a $100.00 to make a profit. If you are under contract and you expect to clear the same as an employee ($35.00 per hour) you will have to charge $70.00 per hour. Now if you consider your down time add another $20.00 per hour and you are just about even.... at a rate of $90.00. There was a calculation done a few years ago that tried to calculate the cost of a government employee that was being paid $17.00 per hour. When the medical, dental, training, CPP, unemployment insurance, accounting, desks, computers, system support, building rent and maintenance, lights, heat, management costs etc...;the cost of an employee was between $120.00 and $160.00 per hour. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:05 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Full-Time v. Contract Does anyone have any useful tips on how to calculate a salaried position v. a contract? Obviously a contract should pay more, since there are no benefits (dental plan, holidays, etc.), but I've been a contractor for ages and lately have been asked if I'd take a position instead. I can see the merits to switching, but I can also see downsides. Let's assume for the sake of simple argument that your contract wage is $100/hr, and that the position offers $x + dental plan, 3 weeks holidays, the opportunity to take a course or two a year at company expense, etc., not to mention the illusion of permanence. Fact is, I don't think that I've ever worked 49 weeks in a row as a contractor. So the simple calculation of 40 * 50 * 100 misses the mark by a wide margin. Any rules of thumb? Any on-line calculators for this sort of thing? TIA, Arthur _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Jan 10 21:37:12 2008 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:37:12 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows Home Server Upgrade Message-ID: <200801110337.m0B3b1hx022247@databaseadvisors.com> Windows Home Server makes a great foundation for your small network, to which your Vista machines can connect and access shared documents, music, and other files. This week at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES), Microsoft showed an upgrade for WHS, called Power Pack 1. Now you can connect to WHS with 64 bit Vista computers, and improvements have also been made to the backup functionality and remote access features. You can find out more here: http://www.vistanews.com/W9VA5A/080110-WHS-Upgrade From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 22:50:08 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:50:08 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Full-Time v. Contract In-Reply-To: <158F65DDCE75457F91BDFB30FEC588B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <29f585dd0801100904w5726df1ducd3efc2f62dc1a46@mail.gmail.com> <158F65DDCE75457F91BDFB30FEC588B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0801102050s4f56d36aodc5dc8fd6292a81d@mail.gmail.com> Wow. That certainly places things (Canadian) in perspective. On 1/10/08, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Hi Arthur: > > When working for a Salary and accepting the normal set of basic benefits > it > usually costs the employer about 50% more. That is, if you are getting > paid > $35.00 per hour from an employer, on salary, the employer will be required > to pay an additional, 2 to 3 weeks holidays, 50% CPP, 50% Unemployment > insurance, super-annulation, medical, dental, and then the cost of > accounting and filling etc. In addition they have to pay for your work > location, phone, (an cell phone needed), the costs of adding and > supporting > you within their infrastructure. So for an employer to pay you $35.00 per > hour it will cost them $70.00 per hour. They will probably have to bill > you > out at over a $100.00 to make a profit. > > If you are under contract and you expect to clear the same as an employee > ($35.00 per hour) you will have to charge $70.00 per hour. Now if you > consider your down time add another $20.00 per hour and you are just about > even.... at a rate of $90.00. > > There was a calculation done a few years ago that tried to calculate the > cost of a government employee that was being paid $17.00 per hour. When > the > medical, dental, training, CPP, unemployment insurance, accounting, desks, > computers, system support, building rent and maintenance, lights, heat, > management costs etc...;the cost of an employee was between $120.00 and > $160.00 per hour. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:05 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: [dba-Tech] Full-Time v. Contract > > Does anyone have any useful tips on how to calculate a salaried position > v. > a contract? Obviously a contract should pay more, since there are no > benefits (dental plan, holidays, etc.), but I've been a contractor for > ages > and lately have been asked if I'd take a position instead. I can see the > merits to switching, but I can also see downsides. Let's assume for the > sake > of simple argument that your contract wage is $100/hr, and that the > position > offers $x + dental plan, 3 weeks holidays, the opportunity to take a > course > or two a year at company expense, etc., not to mention the illusion of > permanence. Fact is, I don't think that I've ever worked 49 weeks in a row > as a contractor. So the simple calculation of 40 * 50 * 100 misses the > mark > by a wide margin. > > Any rules of thumb? Any on-line calculators for this sort of thing? > > TIA, > Arthur > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jan 10 22:56:59 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:56:59 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Full-Time v. Contract In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801102050s4f56d36aodc5dc8fd6292a81d@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801100904w5726df1ducd3efc2f62dc1a46@mail.gmail.com><158F65DDCE75457F91BDFB30FEC588B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> <29f585dd0801102050s4f56d36aodc5dc8fd6292a81d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007b01c8540e$664f5690$657aa8c0@M90> Now take our typical congressman making $162.5K / year. Multiply that times 10, throw in graft and corruption allowances... All the more reason to just fire the government. ;-) John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:50 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Full-Time v. Contract Wow. That certainly places things (Canadian) in perspective. On 1/10/08, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Hi Arthur: > > When working for a Salary and accepting the normal set of basic > benefits it usually costs the employer about 50% more. That is, if you > are getting paid $35.00 per hour from an employer, on salary, the > employer will be required to pay an additional, 2 to 3 weeks holidays, > 50% CPP, 50% Unemployment insurance, super-annulation, medical, > dental, and then the cost of accounting and filling etc. In addition > they have to pay for your work location, phone, (an cell phone > needed), the costs of adding and supporting you within their > infrastructure. So for an employer to pay you $35.00 per hour it will > cost them $70.00 per hour. They will probably have to bill you out at > over a $100.00 to make a profit. > > If you are under contract and you expect to clear the same as an > employee ($35.00 per hour) you will have to charge $70.00 per hour. > Now if you consider your down time add another $20.00 per hour and you > are just about even.... at a rate of $90.00. > > There was a calculation done a few years ago that tried to calculate > the cost of a government employee that was being paid $17.00 per hour. > When the medical, dental, training, CPP, unemployment insurance, > accounting, desks, computers, system support, building rent and > maintenance, lights, heat, management costs etc...;the cost of an > employee was between $120.00 and $160.00 per hour. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:05 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: [dba-Tech] Full-Time v. Contract > > Does anyone have any useful tips on how to calculate a salaried > position v. > a contract? Obviously a contract should pay more, since there are no > benefits (dental plan, holidays, etc.), but I've been a contractor for > ages and lately have been asked if I'd take a position instead. I can > see the merits to switching, but I can also see downsides. Let's > assume for the sake of simple argument that your contract wage is > $100/hr, and that the position offers $x + dental plan, 3 weeks > holidays, the opportunity to take a course or two a year at company > expense, etc., not to mention the illusion of permanence. Fact is, I > don't think that I've ever worked 49 weeks in a row as a contractor. > So the simple calculation of 40 * 50 * 100 misses the mark by a wide > margin. > > Any rules of thumb? Any on-line calculators for this sort of thing? > > TIA, > Arthur > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Jan 11 07:06:12 2008 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:06:12 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Full-Time v. Contract In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801100904w5726df1ducd3efc2f62dc1a46@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801100904w5726df1ducd3efc2f62dc1a46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 10, 2008 12:04 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: Does anyone have any useful tips on how to calculate a salaried position v. > a contract? Obviously a contract should pay more, since there are no > benefits (dental plan, holidays, etc.), but I've been a contractor for ages > and lately have been asked if I'd take a position instead. I can see the > merits to switching, but I can also see downsides. Let's assume for the sake > of simple argument that your contract wage is $100/hr, and that the position > offers $x + dental plan, 3 weeks holidays, the opportunity to take a course > or two a year at company expense, etc., not to mention the illusion of > permanence. Fact is, I don't think that I've ever worked 49 weeks in a row > as a contractor. So the simple calculation of 40 * 50 * 100 misses the mark > by a wide margin. > > Any rules of thumb? Any on-line calculators for this sort of thing? Where I work, they use salary + 42% for benefits and leave. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From joeo at appoli.com Fri Jan 11 07:33:55 2008 From: joeo at appoli.com (Joe O'Connell) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:33:55 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Full-Time v. Contract In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801102050s4f56d36aodc5dc8fd6292a81d@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801100904w5726df1ducd3efc2f62dc1a46@mail.gmail.com><158F65DDCE75457F91BDFB30FEC588B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> <29f585dd0801102050s4f56d36aodc5dc8fd6292a81d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Arthur, The general "rule of thumb" for consulting companies is to charge 2 1/2 to 3 times the salary that they pay to an employee. So for someone who is paid $40 per hour, the billing rate would be $100 - $120 per hour. Joe O'Connell -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:50 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Full-Time v. Contract Wow. That certainly places things (Canadian) in perspective. On 1/10/08, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Hi Arthur: > > When working for a Salary and accepting the normal set of basic benefits > it > usually costs the employer about 50% more. That is, if you are getting > paid > $35.00 per hour from an employer, on salary, the employer will be required > to pay an additional, 2 to 3 weeks holidays, 50% CPP, 50% Unemployment > insurance, super-annulation, medical, dental, and then the cost of > accounting and filling etc. In addition they have to pay for your work > location, phone, (an cell phone needed), the costs of adding and > supporting > you within their infrastructure. So for an employer to pay you $35.00 per > hour it will cost them $70.00 per hour. They will probably have to bill > you > out at over a $100.00 to make a profit. > > If you are under contract and you expect to clear the same as an employee > ($35.00 per hour) you will have to charge $70.00 per hour. Now if you > consider your down time add another $20.00 per hour and you are just about > even.... at a rate of $90.00. > > There was a calculation done a few years ago that tried to calculate the > cost of a government employee that was being paid $17.00 per hour. When > the > medical, dental, training, CPP, unemployment insurance, accounting, desks, > computers, system support, building rent and maintenance, lights, heat, > management costs etc...;the cost of an employee was between $120.00 and > $160.00 per hour. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:05 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: [dba-Tech] Full-Time v. Contract > > Does anyone have any useful tips on how to calculate a salaried position > v. > a contract? Obviously a contract should pay more, since there are no > benefits (dental plan, holidays, etc.), but I've been a contractor for > ages > and lately have been asked if I'd take a position instead. I can see the > merits to switching, but I can also see downsides. Let's assume for the > sake > of simple argument that your contract wage is $100/hr, and that the > position > offers $x + dental plan, 3 weeks holidays, the opportunity to take a > course > or two a year at company expense, etc., not to mention the illusion of > permanence. Fact is, I don't think that I've ever worked 49 weeks in a row > as a contractor. So the simple calculation of 40 * 50 * 100 misses the > mark > by a wide margin. > > Any rules of thumb? Any on-line calculators for this sort of thing? > > TIA, > Arthur > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Fri Jan 11 07:50:27 2008 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:50:27 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows Home Server Upgrade In-Reply-To: <200801110337.m0B3b1hx022247@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200801110337.m0B3b1hx022247@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Available in the fist half of 2008, "likely by this spring". I've only used mine for backups so far but I am getting ready to start doing some file sharing and iTunes music pooling. GK On 1/10/08, John Bartow wrote: > Windows Home Server makes a great foundation for your small network, to > which your Vista machines can connect and access shared documents, music, > and other files. This week at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES), Microsoft > showed an upgrade for WHS, called Power Pack 1. Now you can connect to WHS > with 64 bit Vista computers, and improvements have also been made to the > backup functionality and remote access features. You can find out more here: > > http://www.vistanews.com/W9VA5A/080110-WHS-Upgrade > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri Jan 11 09:26:56 2008 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:26:56 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] A reader wants a good book recommendation for learningExcel functions In-Reply-To: <00aa01c853e0$df5ddf30$4b3a8343@SusanOne> References: <00aa01c853e0$df5ddf30$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Message-ID: Anything by John Walkenbach is good, MBA's guide to MS Excel 2002 by Redmond Technologies Press is a good business book. Ozgrid.com is a great site to pick up functions and techniques. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 5:31 PM To: DBA Tech List Subject: [dba-Tech] A reader wants a good book recommendation for learningExcel functions Anyone have a favorite book on Excel functions? I think he wants more help than Help provides -- good examples using them in real world situations. Susan H. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Jan 11 12:37:52 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:37:52 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] RFP / RFQ Templates Message-ID: <29f585dd0801111037v44276084v519a0ab9c4217ed1@mail.gmail.com> Does anybody have anything resembling an RFP or RFQ template that you'd be willing to share? I googled same and virtually all the hits pointed to outfits that wanted crazy amounts of money for their templates ($500 and up!) If you've got anything like this and are willing to share, contact me off-line or send it privately. TIA, Arthur From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri Jan 11 13:03:38 2008 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:03:38 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] RFP / RFQ Templates In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801111037v44276084v519a0ab9c4217ed1@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801111037v44276084v519a0ab9c4217ed1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002001c85484$acafd580$0300a8c0@danwaters> Arthur, What do you want this document to do? Usually it's the customer who writes these, then you respond with a proposal or quote. Dan -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 12:38 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] RFP / RFQ Templates Does anybody have anything resembling an RFP or RFQ template that you'd be willing to share? I googled same and virtually all the hits pointed to outfits that wanted crazy amounts of money for their templates ($500 and up!) If you've got anything like this and are willing to share, contact me off-line or send it privately. TIA, Arthur _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Jan 11 13:18:29 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:18:29 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] RFP / RFQ Templates In-Reply-To: <002001c85484$acafd580$0300a8c0@danwaters> References: <29f585dd0801111037v44276084v519a0ab9c4217ed1@mail.gmail.com> <002001c85484$acafd580$0300a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: <29f585dd0801111118h637ac382v8adedfd049e7911e@mail.gmail.com> I realize that, but in this case the client is someone who wants help in preparing these documents for an area of software in which I do not deal, so I wouldn't respond to the RFP/RFQ anyway. A. On 1/11/08, Dan Waters wrote: > > Arthur, > > What do you want this document to do? Usually it's the customer who > writes > these, then you respond with a proposal or quote. > > Dan > From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri Jan 11 13:29:39 2008 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:29:39 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] RFP / RFQ Templates In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801111118h637ac382v8adedfd049e7911e@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801111037v44276084v519a0ab9c4217ed1@mail.gmail.com><002001c85484$acafd580$0300a8c0@danwaters> <29f585dd0801111118h637ac382v8adedfd049e7911e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002901c85488$4f5ba270$0300a8c0@danwaters> Can't help there. Perhaps www.wikipedia.com might provide some reference? Dan -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 1:18 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] RFP / RFQ Templates I realize that, but in this case the client is someone who wants help in preparing these documents for an area of software in which I do not deal, so I wouldn't respond to the RFP/RFQ anyway. A. On 1/11/08, Dan Waters wrote: > > Arthur, > > What do you want this document to do? Usually it's the customer who > writes > these, then you respond with a proposal or quote. > > Dan > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jan 11 13:53:00 2008 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:53:00 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] RFP / RFQ Templates In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801111037v44276084v519a0ab9c4217ed1@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801111037v44276084v519a0ab9c4217ed1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Arthur: I have worked with a couple of government RFPs but they tend to be massive, specific to the project at hand and require a signature in blood before they are released. After that each page is coded to the prospective bidder and project.... not something I would feel comfortable with releasing. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 10:38 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] RFP / RFQ Templates Does anybody have anything resembling an RFP or RFQ template that you'd be willing to share? I googled same and virtually all the hits pointed to outfits that wanted crazy amounts of money for their templates ($500 and up!) If you've got anything like this and are willing to share, contact me off-line or send it privately. TIA, Arthur _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jan 12 19:42:52 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 20:42:52 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows Home Server running on a virtual machine Message-ID: <000d01c85585$9db008f0$657aa8c0@M90> Here's a novel concept, can I run WHS as a virtual machine on Virtual Server or Virtual PC? IOW can I take the migration tool (VMWare or Windows) install it on the underlying WHS Windows 2003 OS, take a snapshot of the software, take the virtual PC (or VMWare equivalent) file and move it into a virtual server? Why would I do this? RAID!!! I have two fairly high powered servers with terabyte raid arrays. The one glaring weakness of WHS is that it does not support raid, and these machines already have raid set up on them. Thus WHS would boot off of and store onto RAID automatically. Plus as I understand it, a virtual PC can only use a single core so WHS will grab a core and as much memory as I give it and just sit there chugging. I think I like this idea. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Jan 12 20:16:37 2008 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 20:16:37 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows Home Server running on a virtual machine In-Reply-To: <000d01c85585$9db008f0$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <200801130216.m0D2GNBi005809@databaseadvisors.com> I was waiting for that! You just had to push it, didn't you :o) Actually, other than licensing I see no reason why you couldn't. Maybe MS's cool new replication technology will not like though. Who knows? -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows Home Server running on a virtual machine Here's a novel concept, can I run WHS as a virtual machine on Virtual Server or Virtual PC? IOW can I take the migration tool (VMWare or Windows) install it on the underlying WHS Windows 2003 OS, take a snapshot of the software, take the virtual PC (or VMWare equivalent) file and move it into a virtual server? Why would I do this? RAID!!! I have two fairly high powered servers with terabyte raid arrays. The one glaring weakness of WHS is that it does not support raid, and these machines already have raid set up on them. Thus WHS would boot off of and store onto RAID automatically. Plus as I understand it, a virtual PC can only use a single core so WHS will grab a core and as much memory as I give it and just sit there chugging. I think I like this idea. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.1/1220 - Release Date: 1/11/2008 6:09 PM From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jan 12 22:35:26 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 23:35:26 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows Home Server running on a virtual machine In-Reply-To: <200801130216.m0D2GNBi005809@databaseadvisors.com> References: <000d01c85585$9db008f0$657aa8c0@M90> <200801130216.m0D2GNBi005809@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <001101c8559d$b8422c30$657aa8c0@M90> If you are thinking about the file duplication inside of WHS, that goes away with RAID. No need to duplicate since the raid takes care of that. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 9:17 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Windows Home Server running on a virtual machine I was waiting for that! You just had to push it, didn't you :o) Actually, other than licensing I see no reason why you couldn't. Maybe MS's cool new replication technology will not like though. Who knows? -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows Home Server running on a virtual machine Here's a novel concept, can I run WHS as a virtual machine on Virtual Server or Virtual PC? IOW can I take the migration tool (VMWare or Windows) install it on the underlying WHS Windows 2003 OS, take a snapshot of the software, take the virtual PC (or VMWare equivalent) file and move it into a virtual server? Why would I do this? RAID!!! I have two fairly high powered servers with terabyte raid arrays. The one glaring weakness of WHS is that it does not support raid, and these machines already have raid set up on them. Thus WHS would boot off of and store onto RAID automatically. Plus as I understand it, a virtual PC can only use a single core so WHS will grab a core and as much memory as I give it and just sit there chugging. I think I like this idea. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.1/1220 - Release Date: 1/11/2008 6:09 PM _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jan 12 23:23:52 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 00:23:52 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] WHS on Virtual Server Message-ID: <001501c855a4$7c6a7c10$657aa8c0@M90> Well as I might have discussed, I got Windows 2003 x64 running the other day (with SQL Server x64). Tonight I downloaded Virtual Server 2005 R2 X64 and got it installed. I am now in the process of creating a virtual hard drive on my raid array. This will be the boot drive for WHS. It is taking awhile to build so I am going to bed. More tomorrow. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun Jan 13 10:37:18 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:37:18 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] NV4_disp.dll Problem fixed at last Message-ID: <29f585dd0801130837i150b8d10u2096c293ab7cd05f@mail.gmail.com> For some time I have had the weirdest behavior on my notebook computer (Tosh Ecra 3 with 2GB Ram): it worked fine for months, and then some update or other that I did broke the video display. Symptoms: after about 3-5 minutes of operation, the screen would start blinking and then all sorts of drop-out would occur, rendering the computer unusable. Symptom 2: sometimes upon bootup I would get a BSOD and an explanation that the video dll had entered an infinite loop. I searched and searched and searched for ideas, suggestions, suitable prayers, etc. and found nothing. So I stopped using said notebook. Due to the gig I begin tomorrow morning, I had to resurrect said notebook. First thing I did was google nv4_disp and I got lucky. The topmost hit proclaimed "nv4_disp problem fixed at last!" So I promptly downloaded the alleged fix and copied it to a memory stick and booted the notebook up as usual and then installed the alleged fix from the memory stick.... Lo and behold, the bloddy thing works as expected! My Google efforts suggest that this problem is not specific to Tosh boxes, but in fact relates to NVidia graphics cards. Anyway, the fix worked for me, and I am much relieved. This posting is directed to anyone who may experience this problem, and this URL gets you to the files to download that provide the fix: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=4432 As I gathered from the Google returns on my search, this is not specific to Tosh boxes but rather to the NVidea stuff. So I post this in the spirit of collective solutions. A. From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Jan 13 19:22:24 2008 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 17:22:24 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] NV4_disp.dll Problem fixed at last In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801130837i150b8d10u2096c293ab7cd05f@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801130837i150b8d10u2096c293ab7cd05f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5680B6DDF6284A67A28FA164A470797D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Arthur: I do not know whether the following is your problem but from what I have been hearing from other fellows in the buzz, there have been a number of issues around the newer nvidia drivers. Some systems have to be rebooted as the memory eventually fills up forcing a reboot for Windows products and a logout-in for Linux systems. This is a documented serious bug and it has been appearing as far back as October 2007. Nvidia has been saying there is a fix on the way but as of yet it has not been released. My recommendation is to look for some older (and dumber) Nvidia drivers and replace the current ones you now have. Boot the Laptop in basic video mode and install the older set of drivers and then there should be no issues for a while. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 8:37 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] NV4_disp.dll Problem fixed at last For some time I have had the weirdest behavior on my notebook computer (Tosh Ecra 3 with 2GB Ram): it worked fine for months, and then some update or other that I did broke the video display. Symptoms: after about 3-5 minutes of operation, the screen would start blinking and then all sorts of drop-out would occur, rendering the computer unusable. Symptom 2: sometimes upon bootup I would get a BSOD and an explanation that the video dll had entered an infinite loop. I searched and searched and searched for ideas, suggestions, suitable prayers, etc. and found nothing. So I stopped using said notebook. Due to the gig I begin tomorrow morning, I had to resurrect said notebook. First thing I did was google nv4_disp and I got lucky. The topmost hit proclaimed "nv4_disp problem fixed at last!" So I promptly downloaded the alleged fix and copied it to a memory stick and booted the notebook up as usual and then installed the alleged fix from the memory stick.... Lo and behold, the bloddy thing works as expected! My Google efforts suggest that this problem is not specific to Tosh boxes, but in fact relates to NVidia graphics cards. Anyway, the fix worked for me, and I am much relieved. This posting is directed to anyone who may experience this problem, and this URL gets you to the files to download that provide the fix: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=4432 As I gathered from the Google returns on my search, this is not specific to Tosh boxes but rather to the NVidea stuff. So I post this in the spirit of collective solutions. A. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Jan 13 22:21:06 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 23:21:06 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] I cannot get VMWare converter to download Message-ID: <002101c85664$e25ea170$657aa8c0@M90> I fill in all of the requisite things, read the agreement, click OK and I am back to the "download" page. Does anyone know why / not? Can anyone download this for me and send it to me? I need the "server converter and the Desktop converter. I ran the desktop converter before and it worked smooth as silk. That was long ago however and I have no idea where that downloaded copy might be. Thanks, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 04:01:02 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 05:01:02 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Access connection to .NET? Message-ID: <29f585dd0801150201j64d24981o1982419a87d1e4b1@mail.gmail.com> After a long while connecting .NET to SQL 2000 and 2005, now I need to connect to an Access database. Is there a built-in provider for this? Or... TIA, Arthur From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jan 15 14:10:09 2008 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 12:10:09 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The correct way to install another MS SQL on a server In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801150201j64d24981o1982419a87d1e4b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801150201j64d24981o1982419a87d1e4b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8D88A1E7D409414B94BC03C012211056@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi All: I will be installing a new copy of MS SQL 2005 on a server that is currently running MS SQL 2000. I would like to keep both versions running until a migration is completed and fully tested at which time I will just turn off the older version. I know this can be done but because of the sensitivity of this process I need to know what you would feel is the definitive answer or link to the best source of information. MTIA Jim From bheid at sc.rr.com Tue Jan 15 16:38:31 2008 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:38:31 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Access connection to .NET? In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801150201j64d24981o1982419a87d1e4b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801150201j64d24981o1982419a87d1e4b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008f01c857c7$5b418c70$11c4a550$@rr.com> Arthur, You would use OleDB (preferable) or ODBC. Here's the info for Access 2007: http://www.connectionstrings.com/?carrier=access2007 ACE OLEDB 12.0 Standard security Provider=Microsoft.ACE.OLEDB.12.0;Data Source=C:\myFolder\myAccess2007file.accdb;Persist Security Info=False; With database password Provider=Microsoft.ACE.OLEDB.12.0;Data Source=C:\myFolder\myAccess2007file.accdb;Jet OLEDB:Database Password=MyDbPassword; And for other versions of Access: http://www.connectionstrings.com/?carrier=access Bobby -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Access connection to .NET? After a long while connecting .NET to SQL 2000 and 2005, now I need to connect to an Access database. Is there a built-in provider for this? Or... TIA, Arthur From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jan 15 18:13:34 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:13:34 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] It MUST be Friday Message-ID: <010201c857d4$a2b91160$657aa8c0@M90> This just in from PC Magazine: We don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves, but the next couple of decades could dramatically change computing. We look forward to delving into these advances in future issues of PC Magazine. 2014 Wireless chip integration onto the CPU die and advance coprocessing 2016 Hybrid laptops with solar cells and lithium ion batteries 2018 System cache size big enough to run operating systems 2022 "Spintronics," technology that changes the quantum spin of electrons. Some call this "quantum computing." 2027 Holographic processing, with advanced -projection technology, to allow users to do away with displays Notice that in 2018 we are supposed to have cache size (on the processor) large enough to run operating systems. Obviously PC Magazine has never seen VISTA. ;-) John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jan 16 09:52:42 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:52:42 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] macro scripting tool Message-ID: <000501c85857$d4e5ad00$657aa8c0@M90> Does anyone know of a simple to use widget that will allow me to insert keystrokes into a macro and assign them to a hot key which I can hit to execute the macro. These things used to be popular back in the day and I reaaaaaaly need one now. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Jan 16 18:58:55 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:58:55 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Style Guide for Technical Publications Third Edition Message-ID: <29f585dd0801161658r7c969d92l86bd0b7a21ef57fe@mail.gmail.com> I got an email that said this was available as a free download in CHM format, but apparently MS has pulled the link. Did anyone here get a copy before it disappeared? If so, would you kindly send it to me off-list? TIA, Arthur From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Jan 17 05:16:38 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 06:16:38 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Bootable CD Message-ID: <29f585dd0801170316j7036b082tad8375a23f4aadb7@mail.gmail.com> Can anyone tell me what defines a bootable CD? Back in the day, a bootable floppy was created with the sys command, which copied command.com and msdos.sys to the target, and you could then customize it with config.sys and autoexec.bat. The reason I'd like to know is that I still have a few 3.5 boot disks, but no 3.5 drive. Assuming such a thing is made, I suppose I could get an external 3.5" drive with a USB connection, but if there is an easy way to create a bootable CD and then create some directories on it, maybe that would get me where I want to go. For example, I downloaded several boot-sets from bootdisk.com, but they are all set up with several 3.5" disk images. Also I downloaded the new Google OS and copied its files to a CD but that didn't work. Any suggestions? TIA, Arthur From tinanfields at torchlake.com Thu Jan 17 12:50:13 2008 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:50:13 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Bootable CD In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801170316j7036b082tad8375a23f4aadb7@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801170316j7036b082tad8375a23f4aadb7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478FA365.3070507@torchlake.com> Hi Arthur, I have a fine external 3.5" floppy drive. TEAC FD-05PUB USB I ordered it when I got my new Dell Inspiron 9400 last spring. I love it. I would still like to know the answer about creating a bootable CD. Best regards, Tina Arthur Fuller wrote: > Can anyone tell me what defines a bootable CD? Back in the day, a bootable > floppy was created with the sys command, which copied command.com and > msdos.sys to the target, and you could then customize it with config.sys and > autoexec.bat. > > The reason I'd like to know is that I still have a few 3.5 boot disks, but > no 3.5 drive. Assuming such a thing is made, I suppose I could get an > external 3.5" drive with a USB connection, but if there is an easy way to > create a bootable CD and then create some directories on it, maybe that > would get me where I want to go. For example, I downloaded several boot-sets > from bootdisk.com, but they are all set up with several 3.5" disk images. > Also I downloaded the new Google OS and copied its files to a CD but that > didn't work. > > Any suggestions? > > TIA, > Arthur > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From garykjos at gmail.com Thu Jan 17 13:44:07 2008 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:44:07 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Bootable CD In-Reply-To: <478FA365.3070507@torchlake.com> References: <29f585dd0801170316j7036b082tad8375a23f4aadb7@mail.gmail.com> <478FA365.3070507@torchlake.com> Message-ID: I just did a google search on "how to make a bootable CD" and the first link was this which seems very informative. http://www.pcsupportadvisor.com/bootable_%20CD_page1.htm GK On 1/17/08, Tina Norris Fields wrote: > Hi Arthur, > > I have a fine external 3.5" floppy drive. TEAC FD-05PUB USB I ordered > it when I got my new Dell Inspiron 9400 last spring. I love it. > > I would still like to know the answer about creating a bootable CD. > > Best regards, > Tina > > Arthur Fuller wrote: > > Can anyone tell me what defines a bootable CD? Back in the day, a bootable > > floppy was created with the sys command, which copied command.com and > > msdos.sys to the target, and you could then customize it with config.sys and > > autoexec.bat. > > > > The reason I'd like to know is that I still have a few 3.5 boot disks, but > > no 3.5 drive. Assuming such a thing is made, I suppose I could get an > > external 3.5" drive with a USB connection, but if there is an easy way to > > create a bootable CD and then create some directories on it, maybe that > > would get me where I want to go. For example, I downloaded several boot-sets > > from bootdisk.com, but they are all set up with several 3.5" disk images. > > Also I downloaded the new Google OS and copied its files to a CD but that > > didn't work. > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > TIA, > > Arthur > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-Tech mailing list > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Jan 18 08:40:43 2008 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:40:43 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] SSIS, SQL Server Integration Services, DTS Message-ID: Hi all I'm new to DTS and thought I had a job for this for a scheduled job for importing/exporting some data. Then this page: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms141026.aspx tells that: Integration Services replaces Data Transformation Services (DTS), which was first introduced as a component of SQL Server 7.0. Is that so? And even worse, this page: http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/features/compare-features.mspx indicates that SSIS is not available with the SQL Server Express edition. So our client will have to purchase a SQL Server Standard Edition? Or would there be another simple method to run a scheduled job? It's only about retrieving data from some Access tables and writing some others to another database without user intervention. /gustav From ssharkins at gmail.com Sat Jan 19 08:37:01 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:37:01 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] web site success Message-ID: <00c201c85aa8$c21b1720$4b3a8343@SusanOne> I'd like links to information and personal recommendations for things you can do to increase the number of hits a site gets and increasing your position in search engines except for paying them. Susan H. From joeo at appoli.com Sat Jan 19 12:13:53 2008 From: joeo at appoli.com (Joe O'Connell) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:13:53 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] web site success In-Reply-To: <00c201c85aa8$c21b1720$4b3a8343@SusanOne> References: <00c201c85aa8$c21b1720$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Message-ID: Susan, Try this site http://www.sitepronews.com/ They have a free newsletter which contains lots of suggestions. Joe O'Connell -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:37 AM To: DBA Tech List Subject: [dba-Tech] web site success I'd like links to information and personal recommendations for things you can do to increase the number of hits a site gets and increasing your position in search engines except for paying them. Susan H. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Jan 19 13:20:21 2008 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:20:21 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] web site success In-Reply-To: <00c201c85aa8$c21b1720$4b3a8343@SusanOne> References: <00c201c85aa8$c21b1720$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Message-ID: <9CB3EF15D9904827AD580BC7AB67303A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Susan: The 4 most effective methods and considerations, in order of ranking, for increasing your hit level and search engine status are as follows: 1. LINKS: The more links to you site, from other sites, the higher the Google rating. It can be increase fastest by actively talking people into linking to you from their sites. The higher rated the site that connects to you has the better 'ranking; you receive. 2. LONGEVITY: The longer your site has been around the more status you accumulate and therefore the higher the ranking. (Note; the longer you register your site for the better the ranking as short-term registered sites can be considered spam type sites.) 3. RELATED and FRESH CONTENT: Does your site have content related to your primary focus and is your content beginning updated on a regular schedule. 4. TEXT: Do not use entrance or Flash pages as they do not count for anything. The more text information you have on your entrance pages the better the ranking. (Note: never use Flash as anything more than 'eye-candy' as there is not way for web bots to rate Flash content.) There are a few other recommendations for improving your site status and therefore hit count but these are the biggies. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 6:37 AM To: DBA Tech List Subject: [dba-Tech] web site success I'd like links to information and personal recommendations for things you can do to increase the number of hits a site gets and increasing your position in search engines except for paying them. Susan H. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mwp.Reid at qub.ac.uk Sat Jan 19 15:22:59 2008 From: Mwp.Reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin W Reid) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:22:59 +0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] web site success In-Reply-To: <9CB3EF15D9904827AD580BC7AB67303A@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <00c201c85aa8$c21b1720$4b3a8343@SusanOne>, <9CB3EF15D9904827AD580BC7AB67303A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Could always do it the old fashioned way and pay google http://adwords.google.com/select/Login Martin Martin WP Reid Information Services Queen's University Riddel Hall 185 Stranmillis Road Belfast BT9 5EE Tel : 02890974465 Email : mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk ________________________________________ From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence [accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: 19 January 2008 19:20 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] web site success Hi Susan: The 4 most effective methods and considerations, in order of ranking, for increasing your hit level and search engine status are as follows: 1. LINKS: The more links to you site, from other sites, the higher the Google rating. It can be increase fastest by actively talking people into linking to you from their sites. The higher rated the site that connects to you has the better 'ranking; you receive. 2. LONGEVITY: The longer your site has been around the more status you accumulate and therefore the higher the ranking. (Note; the longer you register your site for the better the ranking as short-term registered sites can be considered spam type sites.) 3. RELATED and FRESH CONTENT: Does your site have content related to your primary focus and is your content beginning updated on a regular schedule. 4. TEXT: Do not use entrance or Flash pages as they do not count for anything. The more text information you have on your entrance pages the better the ranking. (Note: never use Flash as anything more than 'eye-candy' as there is not way for web bots to rate Flash content.) There are a few other recommendations for improving your site status and therefore hit count but these are the biggies. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 6:37 AM To: DBA Tech List Subject: [dba-Tech] web site success I'd like links to information and personal recommendations for things you can do to increase the number of hits a site gets and increasing your position in search engines except for paying them. Susan H. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Sat Jan 19 15:42:28 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:42:28 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] web site success References: <00c201c85aa8$c21b1720$4b3a8343@SusanOne>, <9CB3EF15D9904827AD580BC7AB67303A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <004401c85ae4$317ce090$4b3a8343@SusanOne> > Could always do it the old fashioned way and pay google > > http://adwords.google.com/select/Login =========That's selling ads -- I want to know how to push a site to the top of a search engine's results -- within reason of course. I think, if I'm not mistaken, you can pay google for that service too. Susan H. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Jan 19 19:30:13 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 20:30:13 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] MultiBoot with Linux from boot.ini Message-ID: <29f585dd0801191730w284e92c4sc83dc0dad5cba2e1@mail.gmail.com> For some reason, my system keeps screwing up if I try to set its Linux mult-boot using grub, so I'd like to try the alternative approach using boot.ini. Has anyone done this? If so, would you send me an example file so I can tailor it to my own situation? Much appreciated. TIA, Arthur From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Jan 19 20:06:26 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:06:26 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Bobby Fischer RIP Message-ID: <29f585dd0801191806w7988568eq1c2b463b60c7bf9f@mail.gmail.com> One of the best chess books I ever read was "Bobby Fischer: My 60 Favorite Games." Back when I was in school, for a course called Radio and Television Production, I made a chess broadcast of one game in that book, in which he sacs his queen and then takes a pair of bishops and a knight into the king's castled side for an absolutely stunning victory. He had issues, to be sure, but man could he play chess. I regret that in recent decades his issues took the forefront not his chess. RIP, Bobby. A. From djkr at msn.com Sun Jan 20 05:25:01 2008 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 11:25:01 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Style Guide for Technical Publications ThirdEdition In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801161658r7c969d92l86bd0b7a21ef57fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Arthur Try http://faculty.washington.edu/farkas/TC407/MSTP-V3.pdf Is that what you're after? John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: 17 January 2008 00:59 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Style Guide for Technical Publications ThirdEdition I got an email that said this was available as a free download in CHM format, but apparently MS has pulled the link. Did anyone here get a copy before it disappeared? If so, would you kindly send it to me off-list? TIA, Arthur _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun Jan 20 08:22:21 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 09:22:21 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Style Guide for Technical Publications ThirdEdition In-Reply-To: References: <29f585dd0801161658r7c969d92l86bd0b7a21ef57fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0801200622g50c061dbxbc29d5c6af2c0cc1@mail.gmail.com> Exactly! Thank you a bunch! Arthur On 1/20/08, DJK(John) Robinson wrote: > > Arthur > > Try > http://faculty.washington.edu/farkas/TC407/MSTP-V3.pdf > > Is that what you're after? > > John > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Jan 20 19:23:32 2008 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin at Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:23:32 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dual Monitor wallpaper Message-ID: <000901c85bcc$3cb99370$0301a8c0@HAL9005> Dear List(s): I've got a nice sunset picture as my desktop background on my dual monitor system. What I'd like to do is have the image reversed left to right on the second monitor. Any way to do this? I've got software that I can use to make a flipped copy. Just don't see a way to show different pictures on the two monitors. MTIA Rocky From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Jan 21 02:35:14 2008 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:35:14 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Style Guide for Technical Publications ThirdEdition Message-ID: Hi John Wow! Is that extensive. Looks like mandatory reading if you plan to write anything manual-like. /gustav >>> djkr at msn.com 20-01-2008 12:25:01 >>> Arthur Try http://faculty.washington.edu/farkas/TC407/MSTP-V3.pdf Is that what you're after? John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: 17 January 2008 00:59 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Style Guide for Technical Publications ThirdEdition I got an email that said this was available as a free download in CHM format, but apparently MS has pulled the link. Did anyone here get a copy before it disappeared? If so, would you kindly send it to me off-list? TIA, Arthur From djkr at msn.com Mon Jan 21 06:40:32 2008 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:40:32 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Style Guide for Technical PublicationsThirdEdition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm not familiar with it - only found it after Arthur's request - but I'll probably dip into it. There are comments on Amazon that might be worth perusing: http://www.amazon.com/review/product/0735617465 John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 21 January 2008 08:35 To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Style Guide for Technical PublicationsThirdEdition Hi John Wow! Is that extensive. Looks like mandatory reading if you plan to write anything manual-like. /gustav >>> djkr at msn.com 20-01-2008 12:25:01 >>> Arthur Try http://faculty.washington.edu/farkas/TC407/MSTP-V3.pdf Is that what you're after? John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: 17 January 2008 00:59 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Style Guide for Technical Publications ThirdEdition I got an email that said this was available as a free download in CHM format, but apparently MS has pulled the link. Did anyone here get a copy before it disappeared? If so, would you kindly send it to me off-list? TIA, Arthur _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Mon Jan 21 09:21:02 2008 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:21:02 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Hard Drive Message-ID: Good morning all, This morning when I started my laptop, it went into a cycle of reboots. Booted it in safe mode and got a bunch of notices like Multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\windows\system32\BootVID.....others plus a bunch of drivers. When I manually turn it off, there's a little clink, mechanical sound. I think the hard drive is hosed, any suggestions/confirmations/ sales on laptops. Does it pay to buy a new hard drive? Never had one fail until today. Ed From jon.tydda at alcontrol.com Mon Jan 21 09:22:32 2008 From: jon.tydda at alcontrol.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:22:32 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Hard Drive Message-ID: Laptop droves just as easy/hard to replace as a desktop hard drive, but make sure you get a 2.5" drive, or it won't fit in the bay... They're usually more expensive than the 3.5" drives (but then laptops aren't exactly cheap in comparison to a similar desktop). I'd say to buy a new drive - they shouldn't make that kind of noise, and if you stop using it now, it might be easier to recover data than in the future when it's really dead. We just lost one at work this week, had been buzzing for nearly a month before anyone mentioned it to me... by the time I told them to order a new drive, it had died... Another week lost waiting for the delivery and reinstallation etc. Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tesiny, Ed Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 3:21 PM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-Tech] Hard Drive Good morning all, This morning when I started my laptop, it went into a cycle of reboots. Booted it in safe mode and got a bunch of notices like Multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\windows\system32\BootVID.....others plus a bunch of drivers. When I manually turn it off, there's a little clink, mechanical sound. I think the hard drive is hosed, any suggestions/confirmations/ sales on laptops. Does it pay to buy a new hard drive? Never had one fail until today. Ed _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 09:40:03 2008 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:40:03 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Hard Drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry to hear that Ed. Hope you have your data backed up adequately. You should be able to get a new hard drive for it. http://www.newegg.com/ http://www.microcenter.com/ http://www.tigerdirect.com/ would all likely have a replacement drive for your system. Here's another site you might want to check out.... http://www.laptoprepair101.com/ Good luck with it. Reinforces my feeling about needing a backup solution for my home systems which I took care of with the HP Mediashare Windows home server that now backs up all my systems every night if they are left on. And it warns me when a system hasn't been backed up for a few days so it is a reminder to power it up and do a manual backup like I did with a couple systems on Saturday morning. http://www.shopping.hp.com/product/notebook/notebook_hp/home_servers/1/accessories/GG795AA%2523ABA GK On 1/21/08, Tesiny, Ed wrote: > Good morning all, > This morning when I started my laptop, it went into a cycle of reboots. > Booted it in safe mode and got a bunch of notices like > Multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\windows\system32\BootVID.....others plus > a bunch of drivers. When I manually turn it off, there's a little clink, > mechanical sound. I think the hard drive is hosed, any > suggestions/confirmations/ sales on laptops. Does it pay to buy a new hard > drive? Never had one fail until today. > Ed -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jan 21 10:07:36 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:07:36 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Hard Drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000c01c85c47$bedff1c0$657aa8c0@M90> Ed, Laptop drives are dead simple to replace. HOWEVER... remove the drive and examine it before replacing it. In the beginning... all laptop drives were "IDE" drives (parallel interface) however my Dell has an SATA drive. SATA looks and in fact is exactly the same as the SATA connectors (power and data) on the desktop SATA drives. Laptop IDE drives are different (smaller connector). Your drive is not likely to be SATA but check just in case. In any event, once you figure that out, replacing it is just: 1) unscrew the screw(s) holding the drive into the laptop 2) slide it out 3) You will probably have to take a little adapter off the existing drive / put that adapter on the new drive 4) Slide the new one back in 5) Reinstall software. Laptops are WAY easier than desktops because you don't have to get into the guts of the machine to do cables. BTW, if you have Windows Home Server (and have backed up your system) you could just do a restore of a backup to get back up and running! Good luck. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tesiny, Ed Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 10:21 AM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-Tech] Hard Drive Good morning all, This morning when I started my laptop, it went into a cycle of reboots. Booted it in safe mode and got a bunch of notices like Multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\windows\system32\BootVID.....others plus a bunch of drivers. When I manually turn it off, there's a little clink, mechanical sound. I think the hard drive is hosed, any suggestions/confirmations/ sales on laptops. Does it pay to buy a new hard drive? Never had one fail until today. Ed _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jan 21 10:08:47 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:08:47 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Hard Drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000d01c85c47$e82b62d0$657aa8c0@M90> >Reinforces my feeling about needing a backup solution for my home systems which I took care of with the HP Mediashare Windows home server AMEN brother! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 10:40 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Hard Drive Sorry to hear that Ed. Hope you have your data backed up adequately. You should be able to get a new hard drive for it. http://www.newegg.com/ http://www.microcenter.com/ http://www.tigerdirect.com/ would all likely have a replacement drive for your system. Here's another site you might want to check out.... http://www.laptoprepair101.com/ Good luck with it. Reinforces my feeling about needing a backup solution for my home systems which I took care of with the HP Mediashare Windows home server that now backs up all my systems every night if they are left on. And it warns me when a system hasn't been backed up for a few days so it is a reminder to power it up and do a manual backup like I did with a couple systems on Saturday morning. http://www.shopping.hp.com/product/notebook/notebook_hp/home_servers/1/acces sories/GG795AA%2523ABA GK On 1/21/08, Tesiny, Ed wrote: > Good morning all, > This morning when I started my laptop, it went into a cycle of reboots. > Booted it in safe mode and got a bunch of notices like > Multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\windows\system32\BootVID.....others plus > a bunch of drivers. When I manually turn it off, there's a little clink, > mechanical sound. I think the hard drive is hosed, any > suggestions/confirmations/ sales on laptops. Does it pay to buy a new hard > drive? Never had one fail until today. > Ed -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fahooper at trapo.com Mon Jan 21 10:57:34 2008 From: fahooper at trapo.com (Fred Hooper) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:57:34 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Hard Drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006401c85c4e$b890a1f0$b753dd48@fredxp> The last time I had one fail, SpinRite (www.grc.com for $90) was able to fix it so I could boot. Then I was able to back up my info for the new drive. Since then I've been a SpinRite believer and I run it 2-3 times a year and haven't had a disk problem since. Of course, if it's a mechanical problem (the clink) software wouldn't work. OTOH, the clink might be a spring returning the head to its resting place. Good luck, Fred -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tesiny, Ed Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 10:21 AM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-Tech] Hard Drive Good morning all, This morning when I started my laptop, it went into a cycle of reboots. Booted it in safe mode and got a bunch of notices like Multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\windows\system32\BootVID.....others plus a bunch of drivers. When I manually turn it off, there's a little clink, mechanical sound. I think the hard drive is hosed, any suggestions/confirmations/ sales on laptops. Does it pay to buy a new hard drive? Never had one fail until today. Ed _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 12:06:45 2008 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:06:45 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Hard Drive In-Reply-To: <006401c85c4e$b890a1f0$b753dd48@fredxp> References: <006401c85c4e$b890a1f0$b753dd48@fredxp> Message-ID: I'm a Spinrite beleiver too. GK On 1/21/08, Fred Hooper wrote: > The last time I had one fail, SpinRite (www.grc.com for $90) was able to fix > it so I could boot. Then I was able to back up my info for the new drive. > > Since then I've been a SpinRite believer and I run it 2-3 times a year and > haven't had a disk problem since. > > Of course, if it's a mechanical problem (the clink) software wouldn't work. > OTOH, the clink might be a spring returning the head to its resting place. > > Good luck, > Fred -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 13:11:48 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:11:48 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] bot definition Message-ID: <028301c85c61$7add3680$4b3a8343@SusanOne> I keep seeing the term bot. What does it mean? It seems to refer to some kind of small program. Susan H. From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 13:17:30 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:17:30 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nevermind (Fw: bot definition) Message-ID: <028c01c85c62$46e87910$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Oh geez... nevermind. Susan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: DBA Tech List Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 2:11 PM Subject: bot definition I keep seeing the term bot. What does it mean? It seems to refer to some kind of small program. Susan H. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jan 21 13:34:40 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:34:40 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nevermind (Fw: bot definition) In-Reply-To: <028c01c85c62$46e87910$4b3a8343@SusanOne> References: <028c01c85c62$46e87910$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Message-ID: <003401c85c64$aaa0d090$657aa8c0@M90> ROTFL. We are getting a BUNCH of emails like this form you. Perhaps you should take a week off? ;-) John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 2:17 PM To: DBA Tech List Subject: [dba-Tech] Nevermind (Fw: bot definition) Oh geez... nevermind. Susan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: DBA Tech List Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 2:11 PM Subject: bot definition I keep seeing the term bot. What does it mean? It seems to refer to some kind of small program. Susan H. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 13:37:24 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:37:24 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nevermind (Fw: bot definition) References: <028c01c85c62$46e87910$4b3a8343@SusanOne> <003401c85c64$aaa0d090$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <029c01c85c65$0fc2b510$4b3a8343@SusanOne> I would love nothing better! Are you paying for the resort? :) Let's just take up a collection!!! ;) Susan H. > ROTFL. We are getting a BUNCH of emails like this form you. Perhaps you > should take a week off? > > ;-) From eptept at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 13:46:50 2008 From: eptept at gmail.com (Ed Tesiny) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:46:50 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Hard Drive In-Reply-To: References: <006401c85c4e$b890a1f0$b753dd48@fredxp> Message-ID: <4f4bf9510801211146o36c154a6q6fefa6a6b7a25a74@mail.gmail.com> Well, I went to CompUSA which is going out of business in our region. The only thing they had was a 60Gb that was a return but the customer said "It's not defective" so why the h*ll did they bring it back. Wound up going to a local store and bought a Western Digital 120 Gb for $129, which I didn't think was all that bad, XP is formatting it now. The hard part will be getting it to recognize the wireless network, been three yars since I last did this. No backups on the laptop as I use it mainly for Internet and email, since Diane hogs the desktop. JC, you were right it was a snap to instsll the new one, just have to get all the software loaded and get on my wireless and I should be good to go.....hopefully today. Ed On Jan 21, 2008 1:06 PM, Gary Kjos wrote: > I'm a Spinrite beleiver too. > > GK > > On 1/21/08, Fred Hooper wrote: > > The last time I had one fail, SpinRite (www.grc.com for $90) was able to > fix > > it so I could boot. Then I was able to back up my info for the new > drive. > > > > Since then I've been a SpinRite believer and I run it 2-3 times a year > and > > haven't had a disk problem since. > > > > Of course, if it's a mechanical problem (the clink) software wouldn't > work. > > OTOH, the clink might be a spring returning the head to its resting > place. > > > > Good luck, > > Fred > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 14:23:59 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:23:59 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] FrontPage to Visual Web Developer Express Message-ID: <02f601c85c6b$8fa96ac0$4b3a8343@SusanOne> I need help writing an article on upgrading FrontPage to Visual Web Developer Express -- need 10 reasons TO upgrade. Anyone out there have that kind of expertise in both products? Share the byline and fee. Susan H. From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon Jan 21 14:35:36 2008 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:35:36 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] FrontPage to Visual Web Developer Express In-Reply-To: <02f601c85c6b$8fa96ac0$4b3a8343@SusanOne> References: <02f601c85c6b$8fa96ac0$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Message-ID: <002601c85c6d$2dc62490$0300a8c0@danwaters> Hi Susan, I've used both - but I'm no expert in either. Actually, Front Page upgrades to Expression Web. EW costs about $90 if you already have a version of Front Page. EW is aimed at web designers. Visual Web Developer is free! And is aimed at developers. And is mostly, if not completely, a subset of Visual Studio. So your article should probably focus on why a person would want to change to VWD, not upgrade. Now, after all that, I don't have any reasons for you. :-( Dan -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 2:24 PM To: DBA Tech List Subject: [dba-Tech] FrontPage to Visual Web Developer Express I need help writing an article on upgrading FrontPage to Visual Web Developer Express -- need 10 reasons TO upgrade. Anyone out there have that kind of expertise in both products? Share the byline and fee. Susan H. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 14:42:46 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:42:46 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] FrontPage to Visual Web Developer Express References: <02f601c85c6b$8fa96ac0$4b3a8343@SusanOne> <002601c85c6d$2dc62490$0300a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: <033901c85c6e$7ddc59d0$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Thanks Dan -- I've been reading about the transition this afternoon and you're right -- upgrade is the wrong term. Thanks for pointing that out. Susan H. > Hi Susan, > > I've used both - but I'm no expert in either. > > Actually, Front Page upgrades to Expression Web. EW costs about $90 if > you > already have a version of Front Page. EW is aimed at web designers. > > Visual Web Developer is free! And is aimed at developers. And is mostly, > if not completely, a subset of Visual Studio. > > So your article should probably focus on why a person would want to change > to VWD, not upgrade. > > Now, after all that, I don't have any reasons for you. :-( > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 2:24 PM > To: DBA Tech List > Subject: [dba-Tech] FrontPage to Visual Web Developer Express > > I need help writing an article on upgrading FrontPage to Visual Web > Developer Express -- need 10 reasons TO upgrade. > > Anyone out there have that kind of expertise in both products? Share the > byline and fee. > > Susan H. > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 15:04:25 2008 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:04:25 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] bot definition In-Reply-To: <028301c85c61$7add3680$4b3a8343@SusanOne> References: <028301c85c61$7add3680$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Message-ID: On Jan 21, 2008 2:11 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > I keep seeing the term bot. What does it mean? It seems to refer to some kind of small program. That's exactly it Susan. A small program that does something, usually negative, repetatively. ie a spam-bot. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From carbonnb at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 15:06:28 2008 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:06:28 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nevermind (Fw: bot definition) In-Reply-To: <029c01c85c65$0fc2b510$4b3a8343@SusanOne> References: <028c01c85c62$46e87910$4b3a8343@SusanOne> <003401c85c64$aaa0d090$657aa8c0@M90> <029c01c85c65$0fc2b510$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Message-ID: On Jan 21, 2008 2:37 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > I would love nothing better! Are you paying for the resort? :) Let's just > take up a collection!!! ;) Just go on stress leave. It's great. Don't have to do anything, don't have ti think (if you even can), time off, drugs, and multiple trips to the docs. Oh so much fun. blech -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 15:12:52 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:12:52 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nevermind (Fw: bot definition) References: <028c01c85c62$46e87910$4b3a8343@SusanOne><003401c85c64$aaa0d090$657aa8c0@M90><029c01c85c65$0fc2b510$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Message-ID: <036b01c85c72$65756a40$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Except, nobody pays me to take time off! Susan H. > Just go on stress leave. It's great. Don't have to do anything, don't > have ti think (if you even can), time off, drugs, and multiple trips > to the docs. Oh so much fun. blech From carbonnb at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 16:06:06 2008 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:06:06 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nevermind (Fw: bot definition) In-Reply-To: <036b01c85c72$65756a40$4b3a8343@SusanOne> References: <028c01c85c62$46e87910$4b3a8343@SusanOne> <003401c85c64$aaa0d090$657aa8c0@M90> <029c01c85c65$0fc2b510$4b3a8343@SusanOne> <036b01c85c72$65756a40$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Message-ID: On Jan 21, 2008 4:12 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > Except, nobody pays me to take time off! Definetely not worth it then. Not worth it when you DO get paid to take the time off. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 16:36:54 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:36:54 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Great Net Message Message-ID: <29f585dd0801221436t15025691g960f7894b92d981b@mail.gmail.com> This from DotNetKicks.com: An error has occured It seems an error has occured. Please be assured that someone has been fired. We will fix this problem as soon as possible. From jon at tydda.plus.com Tue Jan 22 16:58:22 2008 From: jon at tydda.plus.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:58:22 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Great Net Message In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801221436t15025691g960f7894b92d981b@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801221436t15025691g960f7894b92d981b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000601c85d4a$49e979a0$0200a8c0@jt2b> Love it :-) Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: 22 January 2008 22:37 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Great Net Message This from DotNetKicks.com: An error has occured It seems an error has occured. Please be assured that someone has been fired. We will fix this problem as soon as possible. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This email has been verified as Virus free. Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jan 22 22:06:03 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:06:03 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Great Net Message In-Reply-To: <000601c85d4a$49e979a0$0200a8c0@jt2b> References: <29f585dd0801221436t15025691g960f7894b92d981b@mail.gmail.com> <000601c85d4a$49e979a0$0200a8c0@jt2b> Message-ID: <002501c85d75$45941ab0$657aa8c0@M90> Unfortunately it was me that was fired! 8-( ;-) John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 5:58 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Great Net Message Love it :-) Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: 22 January 2008 22:37 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Great Net Message This from DotNetKicks.com: An error has occured It seems an error has occured. Please be assured that someone has been fired. We will fix this problem as soon as possible. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This email has been verified as Virus free. Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jan 23 07:11:38 2008 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 05:11:38 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Great Net Message In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801221436t15025691g960f7894b92d981b@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801221436t15025691g960f7894b92d981b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <28FC7EFB98D146DD9BF6F6093D9F044E@creativesystemdesigns.com> Now that is an error message that means something. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 2:37 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Great Net Message This from DotNetKicks.com: An error has occured It seems an error has occured. Please be assured that someone has been fired. We will fix this problem as soon as possible. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 08:09:14 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:09:14 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Great Net Message In-Reply-To: <28FC7EFB98D146DD9BF6F6093D9F044E@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <29f585dd0801221436t15025691g960f7894b92d981b@mail.gmail.com> <28FC7EFB98D146DD9BF6F6093D9F044E@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0801230609r315827ectaec7e8bf882213ee@mail.gmail.com> Since I was apparently the only one who caught it, I feel compelled to point out that there are either 2 or 3 (depending upon how you count) errors here. The first is the web-error that elicited this message. The second (and third) is the spelling of "occurred". LOL. A. On 1/23/08, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Now that is an error message that means something. > > Jim > From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 08:46:12 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:46:12 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] interesting freelance, part-time job Message-ID: <00f001c85dce$b49c2fc0$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Looks interesting for the right person and a good way for someone to get their name before a lot of people. Can't imagine you'd get rich, but would be great to get paid while netting clients! Susan H. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 09:41:31 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:41:31 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] interesting freelance, part-time job In-Reply-To: <00f001c85dce$b49c2fc0$4b3a8343@SusanOne> References: <00f001c85dce$b49c2fc0$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Message-ID: <29f585dd0801230741o174328b4p1cb1851bc1c522ec@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Susan. I applied. A. On 1/23/08, Susan Harkins wrote: > > < > http://seeker.dice.com/jobsearch/servlet/JobSearch?op=302&dockey=xml/2/8/28a88a7bbc42b62c21624b7a2015c4aa at endecaindex&source=19&FREE_TEXT=writer > > > > Looks interesting for the right person and a good way for someone to get > their name before a lot of people. Can't imagine you'd get rich, but would > be great to get paid while netting clients! > > Susan H. From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 09:44:35 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:44:35 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] interesting freelance, part-time job References: <00f001c85dce$b49c2fc0$4b3a8343@SusanOne> <29f585dd0801230741o174328b4p1cb1851bc1c522ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <010f01c85dd6$dcb827e0$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Good luck! :) I'd have looked further, but the technical expertise they need isn't in my area. Susan H. > Thanks, Susan. I applied. > > A. > > On 1/23/08, Susan Harkins wrote: >> >> < >> http://seeker.dice.com/jobsearch/servlet/JobSearch?op=302&dockey=xml/2/8/28a88a7bbc42b62c21624b7a2015c4aa at endecaindex&source=19&FREE_TEXT=writer >> > >> >> Looks interesting for the right person and a good way for someone to get >> their name before a lot of people. Can't imagine you'd get rich, but >> would >> be great to get paid while netting clients! >> >> Susan H. > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Jan 23 13:58:52 2008 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:58:52 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] DBA Award Announcement - Bryan Carbonnell Message-ID: <200801231958.m0NJwkZF002102@databaseadvisors.com> It is with great pleasure that the Board of Directors for Database Advisors, Inc. presents Bryan Carbonell with a Special Service Award in deep appreciation for all that he has done for Database Advisors as List Master. We value his dedication, professionalism and the sharing of his talents and we look forward to continuing our work together. Award link: http://www.winhaven.net/misc/BryanCarbonnell.htm John Bartow, President Database Advisors, Inc. Email: mailto:president at databaseadvisors.com Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Jan 23 14:00:27 2008 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:00:27 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] DBA Award Announcement - Jim Lawrence Message-ID: <200801232000.m0NK0Oin003206@databaseadvisors.com> It is with great pleasure that the Board of Directors for Database Advisors, Inc. presents Jim Lawrence with a Special Service Award in deep appreciation for all that he has done for Database Advisors as List Master. We value his dedication, professionalism and the sharing of his talents and we look forward to continuing our work together. http://www.winhaven.net/misc/JimLawrence.htm John Bartow, President Database Advisors, Inc. Email: mailto:president at databaseadvisors.com Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 14:04:38 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:04:38 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] DBA Award Announcement - Bryan Carbonnell In-Reply-To: <200801231958.m0NJwkZF002102@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200801231958.m0NJwkZF002102@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0801231204y7299bb94l29542a458e999c87@mail.gmail.com> Congrats, Bryan, you surely deserve it! On 1/23/08, John Bartow wrote: > > It is with great pleasure that the Board of Directors for Database > Advisors, > Inc. presents Bryan Carbonell with a Special Service Award in deep > appreciation for all that he has done for Database Advisors as List > Master. > We value his dedication, professionalism and the sharing of his talents > and > we look forward to continuing our work together. > > Award link: http://www.winhaven.net/misc/BryanCarbonnell.htm > > John Bartow, President > Database Advisors, Inc. > Email: mailto:president at databaseadvisors.com > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From garykjos at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 14:59:50 2008 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:59:50 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] [dba-OT] DBA Award Announcement - Bryan Carbonnell In-Reply-To: <200801231958.m0NJwkZF002102@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200801231958.m0NJwkZF002102@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Yes, THANK YOU BRYAN! GK On 1/23/08, John Bartow wrote: > It is with great pleasure that the Board of Directors for Database Advisors, > Inc. presents Bryan Carbonell with a Special Service Award in deep > appreciation for all that he has done for Database Advisors as List Master. > We value his dedication, professionalism and the sharing of his talents and > we look forward to continuing our work together. > > Award link: http://www.winhaven.net/misc/BryanCarbonnell.htm > > John Bartow, President > Database Advisors, Inc. > Email: mailto:president at databaseadvisors.com > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-OT mailing list > dba-OT at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-ot > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From garykjos at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 15:00:34 2008 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:00:34 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] [dba-OT] DBA Award Announcement - Jim Lawrence In-Reply-To: <200801232000.m0NK0Oin003206@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200801232000.m0NK0Oin003206@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Yes, THANK YOU JIM! GK On 1/23/08, John Bartow wrote: > It is with great pleasure that the Board of Directors for Database Advisors, > Inc. presents Jim Lawrence with a Special Service Award in deep appreciation > for all that he has done for Database Advisors as List Master. We value his > dedication, professionalism and the sharing of his talents and we look > forward to continuing our work together. > > http://www.winhaven.net/misc/JimLawrence.htm > > John Bartow, President > Database Advisors, Inc. > Email: mailto:president at databaseadvisors.com > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-OT mailing list > dba-OT at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-ot > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Wed Jan 23 15:08:32 2008 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:08:32 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] DBA Award Announcement - Bryan Carbonnell In-Reply-To: <200801231958.m0NJwkZF002102@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200801231958.m0NJwkZF002102@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4797ACD0.7010804@torchlake.com> Fantastic! Bryan really deserves recognition. Glad to see it. Tina John Bartow wrote: > It is with great pleasure that the Board of Directors for Database Advisors, > Inc. presents Bryan Carbonell with a Special Service Award in deep > appreciation for all that he has done for Database Advisors as List Master. > We value his dedication, professionalism and the sharing of his talents and > we look forward to continuing our work together. > > Award link: http://www.winhaven.net/misc/BryanCarbonnell.htm > > John Bartow, President > Database Advisors, Inc. > Email: mailto:president at databaseadvisors.com > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From john at winhaven.net Thu Jan 24 23:28:43 2008 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 23:28:43 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB Message-ID: <200801250528.m0P5SUIn015268@databaseadvisors.com> Does anyone have real life experience using wireless USB? I've been interested in it but the cost seems to be quite high yet without knowing for sure it works well. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Jan 24 23:34:48 2008 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin at Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:34:48 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB In-Reply-To: <200801250528.m0P5SUIn015268@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200801250528.m0P5SUIn015268@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <00d601c85f14$00941af0$0301a8c0@HAL9005> I'm using Microsoft wireless keyboard and mouse. Seems to work OK. Can't tell the difference between these and wired. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 9:29 PM To: _DBA-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB Does anyone have real life experience using wireless USB? I've been interested in it but the cost seems to be quite high yet without knowing for sure it works well. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1242 - Release Date: 1/24/2008 8:32 PM From kathryn at bassett.net Fri Jan 25 00:12:08 2008 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 22:12:08 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB In-Reply-To: <200801250528.m0P5SUIn015268@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <009c01c85f19$37da3e90$6d01a8c0@Kathryn> You mean things like keyboard/mouse? I do and my 3 day/week client does, no problems. If that's not what you meant, then what do you mean? -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > John Bartow > Sent: 24 Jan 2008 9:29 pm > To: _DBA-Tech > Subject: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB > > Does anyone have real life experience using wireless USB? > > I've been interested in it but the cost seems to be quite > high yet without knowing for sure it works well. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.10/1241 - Release Date: 24 Jan 08 9:58 am From john at winhaven.net Fri Jan 25 01:24:11 2008 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 01:24:11 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB In-Reply-To: <200801250528.m0P5SUIn015268@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200801250724.m0P7Nuhp024224@databaseadvisors.com> Sorry, I was refferring to the specification of Wireless USB. This would entail things like having a wirless USB hub which can then connect wirelessly to peripherals with USB adpaters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_USB#Competitors:_Certified_Wireless_US B_vs_WirelessUSB.E2.84.A2 -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 11:29 PM To: _DBA-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB Does anyone have real life experience using wireless USB? I've been interested in it but the cost seems to be quite high yet without knowing for sure it works well. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.10/1240 - Release Date: 1/23/2008 5:47 PM From jon.tydda at alcontrol.com Fri Jan 25 03:19:51 2008 From: jon.tydda at alcontrol.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:19:51 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB Message-ID: I have Netgear WT111 which I used in my laptop until work gave me a Cisco PCMCIA card. Works fine, easy to set up, either with the windows client or Netgears own software. Only problem I found with it was that it tended to get quite warm after an hour or so... I'm using it with a Netgear DG834PN router, which has been in place for nearly 2 years. I love Netgears routers, they're dead easy to set up (in fact the last 3 I've been able to just upload the config file from the previous one and change some of the settings that weren't in the old one), and reliable(ish!). Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 25 January 2008 07:24 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB Sorry, I was refferring to the specification of Wireless USB. This would entail things like having a wirless USB hub which can then connect wirelessly to peripherals with USB adpaters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_USB#Competitors:_Certified_Wireles s_US B_vs_WirelessUSB.E2.84.A2 -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 11:29 PM To: _DBA-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB Does anyone have real life experience using wireless USB? I've been interested in it but the cost seems to be quite high yet without knowing for sure it works well. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.10/1240 - Release Date: 1/23/2008 5:47 PM _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jon at tydda.plus.com Fri Jan 25 14:26:14 2008 From: jon at tydda.plus.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:26:14 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004601c85f90$887ecd80$0200a8c0@jt2b> Or did I miss the point as well? :-P *blush* Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: 25 January 2008 09:20 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB I have Netgear WT111 which I used in my laptop until work gave me a Cisco PCMCIA card. Works fine, easy to set up, either with the windows client or Netgears own software. Only problem I found with it was that it tended to get quite warm after an hour or so... I'm using it with a Netgear DG834PN router, which has been in place for nearly 2 years. I love Netgears routers, they're dead easy to set up (in fact the last 3 I've been able to just upload the config file from the previous one and change some of the settings that weren't in the old one), and reliable(ish!). Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 25 January 2008 07:24 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB Sorry, I was refferring to the specification of Wireless USB. This would entail things like having a wirless USB hub which can then connect wirelessly to peripherals with USB adpaters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_USB#Competitors:_Certified_Wireles s_US B_vs_WirelessUSB.E2.84.A2 -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 11:29 PM To: _DBA-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB Does anyone have real life experience using wireless USB? I've been interested in it but the cost seems to be quite high yet without knowing for sure it works well. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.10/1240 - Release Date: 1/23/2008 5:47 PM _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This email has been verified as Virus free. Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net From john at winhaven.net Fri Jan 25 14:44:25 2008 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:44:25 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB In-Reply-To: <004601c85f90$887ecd80$0200a8c0@jt2b> Message-ID: <200801252044.m0PKiGnx004824@databaseadvisors.com> :o) Yes. Wireless USB in a new technology that means to replace the wired USB. There are a couple of competing standards unfortunately so like the eternal struggles of market competition we sit and wait and wait and wait... At least it now appears the HD-DVD is dying and Blu-Ray has won the day on that issue. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 2:26 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB Or did I miss the point as well? :-P *blush* Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: 25 January 2008 09:20 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB I have Netgear WT111 which I used in my laptop until work gave me a Cisco PCMCIA card. Works fine, easy to set up, either with the windows client or Netgears own software. Only problem I found with it was that it tended to get quite warm after an hour or so... I'm using it with a Netgear DG834PN router, which has been in place for nearly 2 years. I love Netgears routers, they're dead easy to set up (in fact the last 3 I've been able to just upload the config file from the previous one and change some of the settings that weren't in the old one), and reliable(ish!). Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 25 January 2008 07:24 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB Sorry, I was refferring to the specification of Wireless USB. This would entail things like having a wirless USB hub which can then connect wirelessly to peripherals with USB adpaters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_USB#Competitors:_Certified_Wireles s_US B_vs_WirelessUSB.E2.84.A2 -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 11:29 PM To: _DBA-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] Wireless USB Does anyone have real life experience using wireless USB? I've been interested in it but the cost seems to be quite high yet without knowing for sure it works well. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.10/1240 - Release Date: 1/23/2008 5:47 PM _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This email has been verified as Virus free. Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1242 - Release Date: 1/24/2008 8:32 PM From john at winhaven.net Sat Jan 26 13:52:35 2008 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:52:35 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] The growth of malware Message-ID: <200801261952.m0QJqPco015423@databaseadvisors.com> A short read on malware: http://sunbeltblog.blogspot.com/2008/01/growth-of-malware.html From djkr at msn.com Sun Jan 27 18:46:35 2008 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 00:46:35 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions In-Reply-To: <200801261952.m0QJqPco015423@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: I am about to partition a new disc. One partition will be very active in terms of reads and writes, another almost dormant. Is there any advantage in performance terms in having the active partition as the 'first' one on the disc? Or the last one? It's a long time since I was involved in disc layout at a low level, and I'm wondering whether 'cylinders' these days are still all the same size, with the data near the edge of the platter just more spread out than that near the spindle - or not? TIA John From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Jan 27 18:56:35 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:56:35 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions In-Reply-To: References: <200801261952.m0QJqPco015423@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <001001c86148$a3145f20$0401a8c0@M90> IIRC, the disk controller speeds up the writes as the tracks move outwards towards the edge of the platter. IOW there is more surface area on the outer tracks so they just bump up the waveform to allow more data to be written in that larger surface area. When thought of from that perspective, the outer tracks hold more data / track and so may require less head movement. I have no idea whether the first volume is on the inner tracks or the outer tracks. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:47 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions I am about to partition a new disc. One partition will be very active in terms of reads and writes, another almost dormant. Is there any advantage in performance terms in having the active partition as the 'first' one on the disc? Or the last one? It's a long time since I was involved in disc layout at a low level, and I'm wondering whether 'cylinders' these days are still all the same size, with the data near the edge of the platter just more spread out than that near the spindle - or not? TIA John _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From djkr at msn.com Mon Jan 28 03:34:11 2008 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:34:11 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions In-Reply-To: <001001c86148$a3145f20$0401a8c0@M90> Message-ID: Thanks, John. That would suggest higher transfer rates nearer the edge, with some cylinders holding more than others. Has anyone got any good links to this sort of stuff? Oh, and of course I'm still interested in knowing whether the 'first' partition is nearer the edge or the spindle... John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 28 January 2008 00:57 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions IIRC, the disk controller speeds up the writes as the tracks move outwards towards the edge of the platter. IOW there is more surface area on the outer tracks so they just bump up the waveform to allow more data to be written in that larger surface area. When thought of from that perspective, the outer tracks hold more data / track and so may require less head movement. I have no idea whether the first volume is on the inner tracks or the outer tracks. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:47 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions I am about to partition a new disc. One partition will be very active in terms of reads and writes, another almost dormant. Is there any advantage in performance terms in having the active partition as the 'first' one on the disc? Or the last one? It's a long time since I was involved in disc layout at a low level, and I'm wondering whether 'cylinders' these days are still all the same size, with the data near the edge of the platter just more spread out than that near the spindle - or not? TIA John _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.eu Mon Jan 28 04:18:01 2008 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.eu (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:18:01 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions References: <000001c86190$f0698050$4201a8c0@dabsight> Message-ID: <430E80531228BA4497C5EB1A7BA786B02770E0@stekelbes.ithelps.local> The edge of the disk also means lower access times. I don't know why because RPM is the same at the inner as outer side of the disk. I know that CD drives change their RPM speed depending how far they are on the inner and outer side of a cd so the laser can keep up reading the data, don't know if that is true for HD. That could be an explanation for lower access times, because it takes longer for the data to pass the head. You can check http://www.hdtune.com/ it's a free disk performance check, it will show you the transfer rate / access time for your disk over the whole disk. Erwin -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 10:34 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Thanks, John. That would suggest higher transfer rates nearer the edge, with some cylinders holding more than others. Has anyone got any good links to this sort of stuff? Oh, and of course I'm still interested in knowing whether the 'first' partition is nearer the edge or the spindle... John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 28 January 2008 00:57 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions IIRC, the disk controller speeds up the writes as the tracks move outwards towards the edge of the platter. IOW there is more surface area on the outer tracks so they just bump up the waveform to allow more data to be written in that larger surface area. When thought of from that perspective, the outer tracks hold more data / track and so may require less head movement. I have no idea whether the first volume is on the inner tracks or the outer tracks. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:47 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions I am about to partition a new disc. One partition will be very active in terms of reads and writes, another almost dormant. Is there any advantage in performance terms in having the active partition as the 'first' one on the disc? Or the last one? It's a long time since I was involved in disc layout at a low level, and I'm wondering whether 'cylinders' these days are still all the same size, with the data near the edge of the platter just more spread out than that near the spindle - or not? TIA John _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From djkr at msn.com Mon Jan 28 06:01:08 2008 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:01:08 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions In-Reply-To: <430E80531228BA4497C5EB1A7BA786B02770E0@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: Well, *IF* the outer track holds more than the inner track, then you get more data passing the head in one revolution, giving higher transfer rate and fewer seeks - so lower access times overall. But there's still that *IF*. CDs are different, of course, with their variable speeds. John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: 28 January 2008 10:18 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions The edge of the disk also means lower access times. I don't know why because RPM is the same at the inner as outer side of the disk. I know that CD drives change their RPM speed depending how far they are on the inner and outer side of a cd so the laser can keep up reading the data, don't know if that is true for HD. That could be an explanation for lower access times, because it takes longer for the data to pass the head. You can check http://www.hdtune.com/ it's a free disk performance check, it will show you the transfer rate / access time for your disk over the whole disk. Erwin -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 10:34 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Thanks, John. That would suggest higher transfer rates nearer the edge, with some cylinders holding more than others. Has anyone got any good links to this sort of stuff? Oh, and of course I'm still interested in knowing whether the 'first' partition is nearer the edge or the spindle... John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 28 January 2008 00:57 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions IIRC, the disk controller speeds up the writes as the tracks move outwards towards the edge of the platter. IOW there is more surface area on the outer tracks so they just bump up the waveform to allow more data to be written in that larger surface area. When thought of from that perspective, the outer tracks hold more data / track and so may require less head movement. I have no idea whether the first volume is on the inner tracks or the outer tracks. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:47 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions I am about to partition a new disc. One partition will be very active in terms of reads and writes, another almost dormant. Is there any advantage in performance terms in having the active partition as the 'first' one on the disc? Or the last one? It's a long time since I was involved in disc layout at a low level, and I'm wondering whether 'cylinders' these days are still all the same size, with the data near the edge of the platter just more spread out than that near the spindle - or not? TIA John _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From djkr at msn.com Mon Jan 28 08:07:48 2008 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:07:48 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions In-Reply-To: <430E80531228BA4497C5EB1A7BA786B02770E0@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: Hi Erwin I tried HDtune, but it spends most of its time Not Responding so I've binned it. May be something to do with my system, of course. John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: 28 January 2008 10:18 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions The edge of the disk also means lower access times. I don't know why because RPM is the same at the inner as outer side of the disk. I know that CD drives change their RPM speed depending how far they are on the inner and outer side of a cd so the laser can keep up reading the data, don't know if that is true for HD. That could be an explanation for lower access times, because it takes longer for the data to pass the head. You can check http://www.hdtune.com/ it's a free disk performance check, it will show you the transfer rate / access time for your disk over the whole disk. Erwin -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 10:34 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Thanks, John. That would suggest higher transfer rates nearer the edge, with some cylinders holding more than others. Has anyone got any good links to this sort of stuff? Oh, and of course I'm still interested in knowing whether the 'first' partition is nearer the edge or the spindle... John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 28 January 2008 00:57 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions IIRC, the disk controller speeds up the writes as the tracks move outwards towards the edge of the platter. IOW there is more surface area on the outer tracks so they just bump up the waveform to allow more data to be written in that larger surface area. When thought of from that perspective, the outer tracks hold more data / track and so may require less head movement. I have no idea whether the first volume is on the inner tracks or the outer tracks. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:47 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions I am about to partition a new disc. One partition will be very active in terms of reads and writes, another almost dormant. Is there any advantage in performance terms in having the active partition as the 'first' one on the disc? Or the last one? It's a long time since I was involved in disc layout at a low level, and I'm wondering whether 'cylinders' these days are still all the same size, with the data near the edge of the platter just more spread out than that near the spindle - or not? TIA John _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From djkr at msn.com Mon Jan 28 08:23:58 2008 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:23:58 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, I've trawled the web, and come up with the usual bunch of conflicting, unsubstantiated tosh. My favorite was along the lines of "running RAID 1 completely eliminates the need for backup". Yeah, right. Step away from my system, sir. The consensus, though, is that the first partition goes next to the edge, with the last one by the spindle. People differ in saying what difference this makes - a lot or hardly any: http://partition.radified.com/partitioning_2.htm http://www.xsibase.com/forum/index.php?board=15;action=display;threadid=3452 8 I found PassMark Performance Test (30-day free trial) at http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm; I've no idea how good it is generally I tried this on first and last partitions on a 500GB disc and got results suggesting 25%-45% better performance on the *first* partition, which supports the 'edge is first is better' theory. I'm not publishing the results, because they weren't on a scientific basis, but I *am* going to put my active stuff first, near the edge, and my dormant stuff last! John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: 28 January 2008 09:34 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Thanks, John. That would suggest higher transfer rates nearer the edge, with some cylinders holding more than others. Has anyone got any good links to this sort of stuff? Oh, and of course I'm still interested in knowing whether the 'first' partition is nearer the edge or the spindle... John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 28 January 2008 00:57 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions IIRC, the disk controller speeds up the writes as the tracks move outwards towards the edge of the platter. IOW there is more surface area on the outer tracks so they just bump up the waveform to allow more data to be written in that larger surface area. When thought of from that perspective, the outer tracks hold more data / track and so may require less head movement. I have no idea whether the first volume is on the inner tracks or the outer tracks. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:47 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions I am about to partition a new disc. One partition will be very active in terms of reads and writes, another almost dormant. Is there any advantage in performance terms in having the active partition as the 'first' one on the disc? Or the last one? It's a long time since I was involved in disc layout at a low level, and I'm wondering whether 'cylinders' these days are still all the same size, with the data near the edge of the platter just more spread out than that near the spindle - or not? TIA John _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jan 28 09:12:29 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:12:29 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002501c861c0$336c74a0$0401a8c0@M90> Thanks for that update. That is good to know info that I would never have spent the time to do myself. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 9:24 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Well, I've trawled the web, and come up with the usual bunch of conflicting, unsubstantiated tosh. My favorite was along the lines of "running RAID 1 completely eliminates the need for backup". Yeah, right. Step away from my system, sir. The consensus, though, is that the first partition goes next to the edge, with the last one by the spindle. People differ in saying what difference this makes - a lot or hardly any: http://partition.radified.com/partitioning_2.htm http://www.xsibase.com/forum/index.php?board=15;action=display;threadid=3452 8 I found PassMark Performance Test (30-day free trial) at http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm; I've no idea how good it is generally I tried this on first and last partitions on a 500GB disc and got results suggesting 25%-45% better performance on the *first* partition, which supports the 'edge is first is better' theory. I'm not publishing the results, because they weren't on a scientific basis, but I *am* going to put my active stuff first, near the edge, and my dormant stuff last! John From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jan 28 09:15:29 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:15:29 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002601c861c0$9e8b6610$0401a8c0@M90> Since you mentioned the RAID thing I might as well add that as soon as you put stuff on RAID that advantage may go away. Raid takes over and puts stuff where it will on the disks under its care. It might very well create the first volume on the edge, who knows. OTOH it might not. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 9:24 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Well, I've trawled the web, and come up with the usual bunch of conflicting, unsubstantiated tosh. My favorite was along the lines of "running RAID 1 completely eliminates the need for backup". Yeah, right. Step away from my system, sir. The consensus, though, is that the first partition goes next to the edge, with the last one by the spindle. People differ in saying what difference this makes - a lot or hardly any: http://partition.radified.com/partitioning_2.htm http://www.xsibase.com/forum/index.php?board=15;action=display;threadid=3452 8 I found PassMark Performance Test (30-day free trial) at http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm; I've no idea how good it is generally I tried this on first and last partitions on a 500GB disc and got results suggesting 25%-45% better performance on the *first* partition, which supports the 'edge is first is better' theory. I'm not publishing the results, because they weren't on a scientific basis, but I *am* going to put my active stuff first, near the edge, and my dormant stuff last! John From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.eu Mon Jan 28 09:46:39 2008 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.eu (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:46:39 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions References: <000601c861b7$29e14e00$4201a8c0@dabsight> Message-ID: <430E80531228BA4497C5EB1A7BA786B02770EE@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Hummm, never had any problem with HD Tune on any system I ever used it. Maybe you have a disk prob? -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 3:08 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Hi Erwin I tried HDtune, but it spends most of its time Not Responding so I've binned it. May be something to do with my system, of course. John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: 28 January 2008 10:18 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions The edge of the disk also means lower access times. I don't know why because RPM is the same at the inner as outer side of the disk. I know that CD drives change their RPM speed depending how far they are on the inner and outer side of a cd so the laser can keep up reading the data, don't know if that is true for HD. That could be an explanation for lower access times, because it takes longer for the data to pass the head. You can check http://www.hdtune.com/ it's a free disk performance check, it will show you the transfer rate / access time for your disk over the whole disk. Erwin -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 10:34 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Thanks, John. That would suggest higher transfer rates nearer the edge, with some cylinders holding more than others. Has anyone got any good links to this sort of stuff? Oh, and of course I'm still interested in knowing whether the 'first' partition is nearer the edge or the spindle... John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 28 January 2008 00:57 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions IIRC, the disk controller speeds up the writes as the tracks move outwards towards the edge of the platter. IOW there is more surface area on the outer tracks so they just bump up the waveform to allow more data to be written in that larger surface area. When thought of from that perspective, the outer tracks hold more data / track and so may require less head movement. I have no idea whether the first volume is on the inner tracks or the outer tracks. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:47 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions I am about to partition a new disc. One partition will be very active in terms of reads and writes, another almost dormant. Is there any advantage in performance terms in having the active partition as the 'first' one on the disc? Or the last one? It's a long time since I was involved in disc layout at a low level, and I'm wondering whether 'cylinders' these days are still all the same size, with the data near the edge of the platter just more spread out than that near the spindle - or not? TIA John _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lembit.dbamail at t-online.de Mon Jan 28 09:58:22 2008 From: lembit.dbamail at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:58:22 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions References: <002601c861c0$9e8b6610$0401a8c0@M90> Message-ID: <001801c861c6$9bd55f10$1800a8c0@s1800> With RAID (OnBoard RAID, ASUS) I did have some pretty bad experience with some MBs. After some time operating ok the RAID went bad again and again and required rebuild, until I decided to no longer use the RAID. Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > Since you mentioned the RAID thing I might as well add that as soon as you > put stuff on RAID that advantage may go away. Raid takes over and puts > stuff where it will on the disks under its care. It might very well > create > the first volume on the edge, who knows. OTOH it might not. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) > Robinson > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 9:24 AM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > Well, I've trawled the web, and come up with the usual bunch of > conflicting, > unsubstantiated tosh. My favorite was along the lines of "running RAID 1 > completely eliminates the need for backup". Yeah, right. Step away from > my > system, sir. > > The consensus, though, is that the first partition goes next to the edge, > with the last one by the spindle. People differ in saying what difference > this makes - a lot or hardly any: > http://partition.radified.com/partitioning_2.htm > http://www.xsibase.com/forum/index.php?board=15;action=display;threadid=3452 > 8 > > I found PassMark Performance Test (30-day free trial) at > http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm; I've no idea how good it is > generally > > I tried this on first and last partitions on a 500GB disc and got results > suggesting 25%-45% better performance on the *first* partition, which > supports the 'edge is first is better' theory. I'm not publishing the > results, because they weren't on a scientific basis, but I *am* going to > put > my active stuff first, near the edge, and my dormant stuff last! > > John > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: > 27.01.2008 18:39 > > From djkr at msn.com Mon Jan 28 10:15:12 2008 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:15:12 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions In-Reply-To: <002601c861c0$9e8b6610$0401a8c0@M90> Message-ID: I'm running only RAID 1 pairs, through two different hardware cards, and got similar results from both as from the new disc (not yet RAIDed). So at least for me, my new partitioning rule stands: "active first, dormant last". John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 28 January 2008 15:15 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Since you mentioned the RAID thing I might as well add that as soon as you put stuff on RAID that advantage may go away. Raid takes over and puts stuff where it will on the disks under its care. It might very well create the first volume on the edge, who knows. OTOH it might not. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 9:24 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Well, I've trawled the web, and come up with the usual bunch of conflicting, unsubstantiated tosh. My favorite was along the lines of "running RAID 1 completely eliminates the need for backup". Yeah, right. Step away from my system, sir. The consensus, though, is that the first partition goes next to the edge, with the last one by the spindle. People differ in saying what difference this makes - a lot or hardly any: http://partition.radified.com/partitioning_2.htm http://www.xsibase.com/forum/index.php?board=15;action=display;threadid=3452 8 I found PassMark Performance Test (30-day free trial) at http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm; I've no idea how good it is generally I tried this on first and last partitions on a 500GB disc and got results suggesting 25%-45% better performance on the *first* partition, which supports the 'edge is first is better' theory. I'm not publishing the results, because they weren't on a scientific basis, but I *am* going to put my active stuff first, near the edge, and my dormant stuff last! John _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jan 28 10:18:29 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:18:29 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions In-Reply-To: References: <002601c861c0$9e8b6610$0401a8c0@M90> Message-ID: <002d01c861c9$6bbae3b0$0401a8c0@M90> Also good to know. Thanks. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:15 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions I'm running only RAID 1 pairs, through two different hardware cards, and got similar results from both as from the new disc (not yet RAIDed). So at least for me, my new partitioning rule stands: "active first, dormant last". John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 28 January 2008 15:15 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Since you mentioned the RAID thing I might as well add that as soon as you put stuff on RAID that advantage may go away. Raid takes over and puts stuff where it will on the disks under its care. It might very well create the first volume on the edge, who knows. OTOH it might not. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 9:24 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Well, I've trawled the web, and come up with the usual bunch of conflicting, unsubstantiated tosh. My favorite was along the lines of "running RAID 1 completely eliminates the need for backup". Yeah, right. Step away from my system, sir. The consensus, though, is that the first partition goes next to the edge, with the last one by the spindle. People differ in saying what difference this makes - a lot or hardly any: http://partition.radified.com/partitioning_2.htm http://www.xsibase.com/forum/index.php?board=15;action=display;threadid=3452 8 I found PassMark Performance Test (30-day free trial) at http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm; I've no idea how good it is generally I tried this on first and last partitions on a 500GB disc and got results suggesting 25%-45% better performance on the *first* partition, which supports the 'edge is first is better' theory. I'm not publishing the results, because they weren't on a scientific basis, but I *am* going to put my active stuff first, near the edge, and my dormant stuff last! John _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From djkr at msn.com Mon Jan 28 10:29:03 2008 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:29:03 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions In-Reply-To: <001801c861c6$9bd55f10$1800a8c0@s1800> Message-ID: That's a bit worrying, Lembit, since I'm getting close to building a new system with onboard RAID! Just waiting for Intel and Supermicro to release the bits I'm after. Do you know which RAID chip Asus were using? And which RAID had you set up (0/1/5/10, etc)? I'm heading for RAID 1 with Intel's ICH9R. John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik Sent: 28 January 2008 15:58 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions With RAID (OnBoard RAID, ASUS) I did have some pretty bad experience with some MBs. After some time operating ok the RAID went bad again and again and required rebuild, until I decided to no longer use the RAID. Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > Since you mentioned the RAID thing I might as well add that as soon as > you put stuff on RAID that advantage may go away. Raid takes over and > puts stuff where it will on the disks under its care. It might very > well create the first volume on the edge, who knows. OTOH it might > not. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) > Robinson > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 9:24 AM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > Well, I've trawled the web, and come up with the usual bunch of > conflicting, > unsubstantiated tosh. My favorite was along the lines of "running RAID 1 > completely eliminates the need for backup". Yeah, right. Step away from > my > system, sir. > > The consensus, though, is that the first partition goes next to the > edge, with the last one by the spindle. People differ in saying what > difference this makes - a lot or hardly any: > http://partition.radified.com/partitioning_2.htm > http://www.xsibase.com/forum/index.php?board=15;action=display;threadi > d=3452 > 8 > > I found PassMark Performance Test (30-day free trial) at > http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm; I've no idea how good it is > generally > > I tried this on first and last partitions on a 500GB disc and got > results suggesting 25%-45% better performance on the *first* > partition, which supports the 'edge is first is better' theory. I'm > not publishing the results, because they weren't on a scientific > basis, but I *am* going to put my active stuff first, near the edge, > and my dormant stuff last! > > John > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: > 27.01.2008 18:39 > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From djkr at msn.com Mon Jan 28 10:38:19 2008 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:38:19 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions In-Reply-To: <430E80531228BA4497C5EB1A7BA786B02770EE@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: All my discs seem just fine, and have just been thrashed by PassMark's Performance Test. HD Tune (v2.54) never gets to the stage of looking at them, as far as I can tell. (Tried re-installing: no difference.) Maybe another day, another system. Thanks anyway John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: 28 January 2008 15:47 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Hummm, never had any problem with HD Tune on any system I ever used it. Maybe you have a disk prob? -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 3:08 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Hi Erwin I tried HDtune, but it spends most of its time Not Responding so I've binned it. May be something to do with my system, of course. John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: 28 January 2008 10:18 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions The edge of the disk also means lower access times. I don't know why because RPM is the same at the inner as outer side of the disk. I know that CD drives change their RPM speed depending how far they are on the inner and outer side of a cd so the laser can keep up reading the data, don't know if that is true for HD. That could be an explanation for lower access times, because it takes longer for the data to pass the head. You can check http://www.hdtune.com/ it's a free disk performance check, it will show you the transfer rate / access time for your disk over the whole disk. Erwin -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 10:34 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Thanks, John. That would suggest higher transfer rates nearer the edge, with some cylinders holding more than others. Has anyone got any good links to this sort of stuff? Oh, and of course I'm still interested in knowing whether the 'first' partition is nearer the edge or the spindle... John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 28 January 2008 00:57 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions IIRC, the disk controller speeds up the writes as the tracks move outwards towards the edge of the platter. IOW there is more surface area on the outer tracks so they just bump up the waveform to allow more data to be written in that larger surface area. When thought of from that perspective, the outer tracks hold more data / track and so may require less head movement. I have no idea whether the first volume is on the inner tracks or the outer tracks. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:47 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions I am about to partition a new disc. One partition will be very active in terms of reads and writes, another almost dormant. Is there any advantage in performance terms in having the active partition as the 'first' one on the disc? Or the last one? It's a long time since I was involved in disc layout at a low level, and I'm wondering whether 'cylinders' these days are still all the same size, with the data near the edge of the platter just more spread out than that near the spindle - or not? TIA John _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.eu Mon Jan 28 10:49:52 2008 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.eu (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:49:52 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions References: <000c01c861cc$30530930$4201a8c0@dabsight> Message-ID: <430E80531228BA4497C5EB1A7BA786B02770EF@stekelbes.ithelps.local> I personally would never use an onboard raid to store data. If U use a removable controller you can swap controller and disks to another system when your system is defect. Doing so you have your data back in a few minutes... Since the OS is pretty much system depending, you could use the onboard raid only for your OS disk. Erwin -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 5:38 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions All my discs seem just fine, and have just been thrashed by PassMark's Performance Test. HD Tune (v2.54) never gets to the stage of looking at them, as far as I can tell. (Tried re-installing: no difference.) Maybe another day, another system. Thanks anyway John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: 28 January 2008 15:47 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Hummm, never had any problem with HD Tune on any system I ever used it. Maybe you have a disk prob? -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 3:08 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Hi Erwin I tried HDtune, but it spends most of its time Not Responding so I've binned it. May be something to do with my system, of course. John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: 28 January 2008 10:18 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions The edge of the disk also means lower access times. I don't know why because RPM is the same at the inner as outer side of the disk. I know that CD drives change their RPM speed depending how far they are on the inner and outer side of a cd so the laser can keep up reading the data, don't know if that is true for HD. That could be an explanation for lower access times, because it takes longer for the data to pass the head. You can check http://www.hdtune.com/ it's a free disk performance check, it will show you the transfer rate / access time for your disk over the whole disk. Erwin -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 10:34 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Thanks, John. That would suggest higher transfer rates nearer the edge, with some cylinders holding more than others. Has anyone got any good links to this sort of stuff? Oh, and of course I'm still interested in knowing whether the 'first' partition is nearer the edge or the spindle... John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 28 January 2008 00:57 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions IIRC, the disk controller speeds up the writes as the tracks move outwards towards the edge of the platter. IOW there is more surface area on the outer tracks so they just bump up the waveform to allow more data to be written in that larger surface area. When thought of from that perspective, the outer tracks hold more data / track and so may require less head movement. I have no idea whether the first volume is on the inner tracks or the outer tracks. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:47 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions I am about to partition a new disc. One partition will be very active in terms of reads and writes, another almost dormant. Is there any advantage in performance terms in having the active partition as the 'first' one on the disc? Or the last one? It's a long time since I was involved in disc layout at a low level, and I'm wondering whether 'cylinders' these days are still all the same size, with the data near the edge of the platter just more spread out than that near the spindle - or not? TIA John _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lembit.dbamail at t-online.de Mon Jan 28 11:18:34 2008 From: lembit.dbamail at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:18:34 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions References: Message-ID: <001401c861d1$d0476c60$1800a8c0@s1800> One MB is the A8N-SLI. On this I used the PATA drives with RAID 1. the manual sais NVIDIA nForce 4 SLI chipset supports 2xUltraDMA, 4xSATA (I used the UltraDMA, now I use the SATA drives) I have not tried the SATA RAID which is Silicon Image 311 4R RAID controller. the other MB is P4C800 deLuxe Promise PDC20378,which supports: - 1xUltraDMA 100 (I used this with RAID1 and it worked about 4 or 5 years. when it failed I replaced both disks and then every other day the array failed and had to be rebuildt, so I gave up and use the other connector which is SouthBridge ICH5 Also, IIRC, the onboard Raids are much slower. Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJK(John) Robinson" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > That's a bit worrying, Lembit, since I'm getting close to building a new > system with onboard RAID! Just waiting for Intel and Supermicro to > release > the bits I'm after. > > Do you know which RAID chip Asus were using? And which RAID had you set > up > (0/1/5/10, etc)? I'm heading for RAID 1 with Intel's ICH9R. > > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik > Sent: 28 January 2008 15:58 > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > > With RAID (OnBoard RAID, ASUS) I did have some pretty bad experience with > some MBs. > After some time operating ok the RAID went bad again and again and > required > rebuild, until I decided to no longer use the RAID. > > Lembit > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jwcolby" > To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" > > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 4:15 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > >> Since you mentioned the RAID thing I might as well add that as soon as >> you put stuff on RAID that advantage may go away. Raid takes over and >> puts stuff where it will on the disks under its care. It might very >> well create the first volume on the edge, who knows. OTOH it might >> not. >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) >> Robinson >> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 9:24 AM >> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions >> >> Well, I've trawled the web, and come up with the usual bunch of >> conflicting, >> unsubstantiated tosh. My favorite was along the lines of "running RAID 1 >> completely eliminates the need for backup". Yeah, right. Step away from >> my >> system, sir. >> >> The consensus, though, is that the first partition goes next to the >> edge, with the last one by the spindle. People differ in saying what >> difference this makes - a lot or hardly any: >> http://partition.radified.com/partitioning_2.htm >> http://www.xsibase.com/forum/index.php?board=15;action=display;threadi >> d=3452 >> 8 >> >> I found PassMark Performance Test (30-day free trial) at >> http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm; I've no idea how good it is >> generally >> >> I tried this on first and last partitions on a 500GB disc and got >> results suggesting 25%-45% better performance on the *first* >> partition, which supports the 'edge is first is better' theory. I'm >> not publishing the results, because they weren't on a scientific >> basis, but I *am* going to put my active stuff first, near the edge, >> and my dormant stuff last! >> >> John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: >> 27.01.2008 18:39 >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: > 27.01.2008 18:39 > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jan 28 11:37:20 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:37:20 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions In-Reply-To: <430E80531228BA4497C5EB1A7BA786B02770EF@stekelbes.ithelps.local> References: <000c01c861cc$30530930$4201a8c0@dabsight> <430E80531228BA4497C5EB1A7BA786B02770EF@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: <000701c861d4$6fbc1fa0$0401a8c0@M90> I absolutely agree. The onboard raid will not work the same with a new motherboard and so all data in the raid array will be lost. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:50 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions I personally would never use an onboard raid to store data. If U use a removable controller you can swap controller and disks to another system when your system is defect. Doing so you have your data back in a few minutes... Since the OS is pretty much system depending, you could use the onboard raid only for your OS disk. Erwin -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 5:38 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions All my discs seem just fine, and have just been thrashed by PassMark's Performance Test. HD Tune (v2.54) never gets to the stage of looking at them, as far as I can tell. (Tried re-installing: no difference.) Maybe another day, another system. Thanks anyway John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: 28 January 2008 15:47 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Hummm, never had any problem with HD Tune on any system I ever used it. Maybe you have a disk prob? -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 3:08 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Hi Erwin I tried HDtune, but it spends most of its time Not Responding so I've binned it. May be something to do with my system, of course. John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: 28 January 2008 10:18 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions The edge of the disk also means lower access times. I don't know why because RPM is the same at the inner as outer side of the disk. I know that CD drives change their RPM speed depending how far they are on the inner and outer side of a cd so the laser can keep up reading the data, don't know if that is true for HD. That could be an explanation for lower access times, because it takes longer for the data to pass the head. You can check http://www.hdtune.com/ it's a free disk performance check, it will show you the transfer rate / access time for your disk over the whole disk. Erwin -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 10:34 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Thanks, John. That would suggest higher transfer rates nearer the edge, with some cylinders holding more than others. Has anyone got any good links to this sort of stuff? Oh, and of course I'm still interested in knowing whether the 'first' partition is nearer the edge or the spindle... John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 28 January 2008 00:57 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions IIRC, the disk controller speeds up the writes as the tracks move outwards towards the edge of the platter. IOW there is more surface area on the outer tracks so they just bump up the waveform to allow more data to be written in that larger surface area. When thought of from that perspective, the outer tracks hold more data / track and so may require less head movement. I have no idea whether the first volume is on the inner tracks or the outer tracks. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:47 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions I am about to partition a new disc. One partition will be very active in terms of reads and writes, another almost dormant. Is there any advantage in performance terms in having the active partition as the 'first' one on the disc? Or the last one? It's a long time since I was involved in disc layout at a low level, and I'm wondering whether 'cylinders' these days are still all the same size, with the data near the edge of the platter just more spread out than that near the spindle - or not? TIA John _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lembit.dbamail at t-online.de Mon Jan 28 12:21:08 2008 From: lembit.dbamail at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:21:08 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions References: <000c01c861cc$30530930$4201a8c0@dabsight><430E80531228BA4497C5EB1A7BA786B02770EF@stekelbes.ithelps.local> <000701c861d4$6fbc1fa0$0401a8c0@M90> Message-ID: <002101c861da$8e0adae0$1800a8c0@s1800> Remember when you move your RAID controller to a new machine, you got to install the drivers there also, and by the time your system fails, the driverboard will not fit into the new system. Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions >I absolutely agree. The onboard raid will not work the same with a new > motherboard and so all data in the raid array will be lost. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - > IT > Helps > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:50 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > I personally would never use an onboard raid to store data. > > If U use a removable controller you can swap controller and disks to > another > system when your system is defect. > Doing so you have your data back in a few minutes... > > Since the OS is pretty much system depending, you could use the onboard > raid > only for your OS disk. > > Erwin > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) > Robinson > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 5:38 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > All my discs seem just fine, and have just been thrashed by PassMark's > Performance Test. HD Tune (v2.54) never gets to the stage of looking at > them, as far as I can tell. (Tried re-installing: no difference.) Maybe > another day, another system. > > Thanks anyway > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps > - IT > Helps > Sent: 28 January 2008 15:47 > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > > Hummm, never had any problem with HD Tune on any system I ever used it. > > Maybe you have a disk prob? > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) > Robinson > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 3:08 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > Hi Erwin > > I tried HDtune, but it spends most of its time Not Responding so I've > binned > it. May be something to do with my system, of course. > > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps > - IT > Helps > Sent: 28 January 2008 10:18 > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > > The edge of the disk also means lower access times. > I don't know why because RPM is the same at the inner as outer side of the > disk. > > I know that CD drives change their RPM speed depending how far they are on > the inner and outer side of a cd so the laser can keep up reading the > data, > don't know if that is true for HD. That could be an explanation for lower > access times, because it takes longer for the data to pass the head. > > > You can check http://www.hdtune.com/ it's a free disk performance check, > it > will show you the transfer rate / access time for your disk over the whole > disk. > > Erwin > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) > Robinson > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 10:34 AM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > Thanks, John. That would suggest higher transfer rates nearer the edge, > with some cylinders holding more than others. > > Has anyone got any good links to this sort of stuff? > > Oh, and of course I'm still interested in knowing whether the 'first' > partition is nearer the edge or the spindle... > > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 28 January 2008 00:57 > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > > IIRC, the disk controller speeds up the writes as the tracks move outwards > towards the edge of the platter. IOW there is more surface area on the > outer tracks so they just bump up the waveform to allow more data to be > written in that larger surface area. When thought of from that > perspective, > the outer tracks hold more data / track and so may require less head > movement. I have no idea whether the first volume is on the inner tracks > or > the outer tracks. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) > Robinson > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:47 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > I am about to partition a new disc. One partition will be very active in > terms of reads and writes, another almost dormant. > > Is there any advantage in performance terms in having the active partition > as the 'first' one on the disc? Or the last one? > > It's a long time since I was involved in disc layout at a low level, and > I'm > wondering whether 'cylinders' these days are still all the same size, with > the data near the edge of the platter just more spread out than that near > the spindle - or not? > > TIA > John > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: > 27.01.2008 18:39 > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jan 28 12:38:29 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:38:29 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions In-Reply-To: <002101c861da$8e0adae0$1800a8c0@s1800> References: <000c01c861cc$30530930$4201a8c0@dabsight><430E80531228BA4497C5EB1A7BA786B02770EF@stekelbes.ithelps.local><000701c861d4$6fbc1fa0$0401a8c0@M90> <002101c861da$8e0adae0$1800a8c0@s1800> Message-ID: <001201c861dc$fa5e69d0$0401a8c0@M90> ROTFL. Well aren't YOU the grinch! This actually happened to me with a video card but that was because the video card socket type went away. However RAID cards do not use video card sockets, they either use PCI or PCIX. PCI might very well go away someday soon. PCIX not a chance. Not SOON anyway. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 1:21 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Remember when you move your RAID controller to a new machine, you got to install the drivers there also, and by the time your system fails, the driverboard will not fit into the new system. Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions >I absolutely agree. The onboard raid will not work the same with a new > motherboard and so all data in the raid array will be lost. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - > IT > Helps > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:50 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > I personally would never use an onboard raid to store data. > > If U use a removable controller you can swap controller and disks to > another > system when your system is defect. > Doing so you have your data back in a few minutes... > > Since the OS is pretty much system depending, you could use the onboard > raid > only for your OS disk. > > Erwin From lembit.dbamail at t-online.de Mon Jan 28 13:29:05 2008 From: lembit.dbamail at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:29:05 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions References: <000c01c861cc$30530930$4201a8c0@dabsight><430E80531228BA4497C5EB1A7BA786B02770EF@stekelbes.ithelps.local><000701c861d4$6fbc1fa0$0401a8c0@M90><002101c861da$8e0adae0$1800a8c0@s1800> <001201c861dc$fa5e69d0$0401a8c0@M90> Message-ID: <001c01c861e4$0c353330$1800a8c0@s1800> I still have a FastTrack ISA card in one PC - still works fine, supporting 2x2 drives RAID 1each. And last year I was going to buy a card to hook up SATA drives on one MB that doesnt have SATA connectors. Had to search PCI card - most cards are PCIE, which this MB doesnt have. Each time I turn around, I find I cannot upgrade or replace this or that, but that's the trick in PC business: You have to buy a new Computer every 3 to 4 years. Lembit BTW, what's PCIX? is it 'extended'? I know extended as PCIE. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > ROTFL. Well aren't YOU the grinch! > > This actually happened to me with a video card but that was because the > video card socket type went away. However RAID cards do not use video > card > sockets, they either use PCI or PCIX. PCI might very well go away someday > soon. PCIX not a chance. Not SOON anyway. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 1:21 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > Remember when you move your RAID controller to a new machine, you got to > install the drivers there also, and by the time your system fails, the > driverboard will not fit into the new system. > > Lembit > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jwcolby" > To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" > > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:37 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > >>I absolutely agree. The onboard raid will not work the same with a new >> motherboard and so all data in the raid array will be lost. >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - >> IT >> Helps >> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:50 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions >> >> I personally would never use an onboard raid to store data. >> >> If U use a removable controller you can swap controller and disks to >> another >> system when your system is defect. >> Doing so you have your data back in a few minutes... >> >> Since the OS is pretty much system depending, you could use the onboard >> raid >> only for your OS disk. >> >> Erwin > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: > 27.01.2008 18:39 > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jan 28 13:47:42 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:47:42 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions In-Reply-To: <001c01c861e4$0c353330$1800a8c0@s1800> References: <000c01c861cc$30530930$4201a8c0@dabsight><430E80531228BA4497C5EB1A7BA786B02770EF@stekelbes.ithelps.local><000701c861d4$6fbc1fa0$0401a8c0@M90><002101c861da$8e0adae0$1800a8c0@s1800><001201c861dc$fa5e69d0$0401a8c0@M90> <001c01c861e4$0c353330$1800a8c0@s1800> Message-ID: <002901c861e6$a5bd7b50$0401a8c0@M90> Yea, PCIE. The new connectors with 1,4,8 or 16 "serial" data paths to the card. My RAID card uses a PCIE with 8x channels. Everyone was saying that you have to be careful what motherboard, it has to be "compatible" etc. I have used it in two different MBs, neither of which was on their "compatible" list. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 2:29 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions I still have a FastTrack ISA card in one PC - still works fine, supporting 2x2 drives RAID 1each. And last year I was going to buy a card to hook up SATA drives on one MB that doesnt have SATA connectors. Had to search PCI card - most cards are PCIE, which this MB doesnt have. Each time I turn around, I find I cannot upgrade or replace this or that, but that's the trick in PC business: You have to buy a new Computer every 3 to 4 years. Lembit BTW, what's PCIX? is it 'extended'? I know extended as PCIE. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > ROTFL. Well aren't YOU the grinch! > > This actually happened to me with a video card but that was because the > video card socket type went away. However RAID cards do not use video > card > sockets, they either use PCI or PCIX. PCI might very well go away someday > soon. PCIX not a chance. Not SOON anyway. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com From djkr at msn.com Mon Jan 28 15:03:20 2008 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:03:20 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions In-Reply-To: <002901c861e6$a5bd7b50$0401a8c0@M90> Message-ID: NO! Pardon my shout, but PCIX ain't PCIE!! PCI-X is PCI Extended, is aimed at servers, and is effectively an extension of PCI, only wider (64-bit) and a factor faster than PCI's 33MHz (66 or 133MHz, for instance). Sockets are usually white, like PCI's, but longer. PCI-E or PCI Express is more recent, sockets are typically black, and size depends on the number of lanes potentially available, eg x1, x4, x16. Though sometimes a larger socket has fewer lanes functional. PCI, PCI-X and PCI-E are mutually incompatible plug-and-socket-wise, so cannot be mixed up, even intentionally. Here's a motherboard with all three: http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon3000/3210/X7SBA.cfm 'Express' is not 'Extended', and though both names begin with 'ex', one is 'E' and the other is 'X'. Do not confuse! HTH John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 28 January 2008 19:48 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Yea, PCIE. The new connectors with 1,4,8 or 16 "serial" data paths to the card. My RAID card uses a PCIE with 8x channels. Everyone was saying that you have to be careful what motherboard, it has to be "compatible" etc. I have used it in two different MBs, neither of which was on their "compatible" list. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 2:29 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions I still have a FastTrack ISA card in one PC - still works fine, supporting 2x2 drives RAID 1each. And last year I was going to buy a card to hook up SATA drives on one MB that doesnt have SATA connectors. Had to search PCI card - most cards are PCIE, which this MB doesnt have. Each time I turn around, I find I cannot upgrade or replace this or that, but that's the trick in PC business: You have to buy a new Computer every 3 to 4 years. Lembit BTW, what's PCIX? is it 'extended'? I know extended as PCIE. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > ROTFL. Well aren't YOU the grinch! > > This actually happened to me with a video card but that was because > the video card socket type went away. However RAID cards do not use > video card sockets, they either use PCI or PCIX. PCI might very well > go away someday soon. PCIX not a chance. Not SOON anyway. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jan 28 15:40:42 2008 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:40:42 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions In-Reply-To: References: <002901c861e6$a5bd7b50$0401a8c0@M90> Message-ID: <003801c861f6$6edebf80$0401a8c0@M90> ROTFL, OK then. I just didn't want to spend the time looking up what I bought. I do know I have had occasions where I was looking at a board and suddenly realized it had a HUGE connector (PCIX) which was not what I wanted. It is my impression that each channel of PCI-E is supposed to be faster than PCI and you can have up to 16 of them. You really don't have to shout though. ;-) John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 4:03 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions NO! Pardon my shout, but PCIX ain't PCIE!! PCI-X is PCI Extended, is aimed at servers, and is effectively an extension of PCI, only wider (64-bit) and a factor faster than PCI's 33MHz (66 or 133MHz, for instance). Sockets are usually white, like PCI's, but longer. PCI-E or PCI Express is more recent, sockets are typically black, and size depends on the number of lanes potentially available, eg x1, x4, x16. Though sometimes a larger socket has fewer lanes functional. PCI, PCI-X and PCI-E are mutually incompatible plug-and-socket-wise, so cannot be mixed up, even intentionally. Here's a motherboard with all three: http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon3000/3210/X7SBA.cfm 'Express' is not 'Extended', and though both names begin with 'ex', one is 'E' and the other is 'X'. Do not confuse! HTH John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 28 January 2008 19:48 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions Yea, PCIE. The new connectors with 1,4,8 or 16 "serial" data paths to the card. My RAID card uses a PCIE with 8x channels. Everyone was saying that you have to be careful what motherboard, it has to be "compatible" etc. I have used it in two different MBs, neither of which was on their "compatible" list. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 2:29 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions I still have a FastTrack ISA card in one PC - still works fine, supporting 2x2 drives RAID 1each. And last year I was going to buy a card to hook up SATA drives on one MB that doesnt have SATA connectors. Had to search PCI card - most cards are PCIE, which this MB doesnt have. Each time I turn around, I find I cannot upgrade or replace this or that, but that's the trick in PC business: You have to buy a new Computer every 3 to 4 years. Lembit BTW, what's PCIX? is it 'extended'? I know extended as PCIE. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > ROTFL. Well aren't YOU the grinch! > > This actually happened to me with a video card but that was because > the video card socket type went away. However RAID cards do not use > video card sockets, they either use PCI or PCIX. PCI might very well > go away someday soon. PCIX not a chance. Not SOON anyway. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lembit.dbamail at t-online.de Mon Jan 28 16:16:10 2008 From: lembit.dbamail at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 23:16:10 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions References: Message-ID: <001401c861fb$631475f0$1800a8c0@s1800> Thanks, John, very helpful information. Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJK(John) Robinson" To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > NO! Pardon my shout, but PCIX ain't PCIE!! > > PCI-X is PCI Extended, is aimed at servers, and is effectively an > extension > of PCI, only wider (64-bit) and a factor faster than PCI's 33MHz (66 or > 133MHz, for instance). Sockets are usually white, like PCI's, but longer. > > PCI-E or PCI Express is more recent, sockets are typically black, and size > depends on the number of lanes potentially available, eg x1, x4, x16. > Though sometimes a larger socket has fewer lanes functional. > > PCI, PCI-X and PCI-E are mutually incompatible plug-and-socket-wise, so > cannot be mixed up, even intentionally. Here's a motherboard with all > three: > http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon3000/3210/X7SBA.cfm > > 'Express' is not 'Extended', and though both names begin with 'ex', one is > 'E' and the other is 'X'. Do not confuse! > > HTH > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 28 January 2008 19:48 > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > > Yea, PCIE. The new connectors with 1,4,8 or 16 "serial" data paths to the > card. My RAID card uses a PCIE with 8x channels. Everyone was saying > that > you have to be careful what motherboard, it has to be "compatible" etc. I > have used it in two different MBs, neither of which was on their > "compatible" list. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 2:29 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > I still have a FastTrack ISA card in one PC - still works fine, supporting > 2x2 drives RAID 1each. And last year I was going to buy a card to hook up > SATA drives on one MB that doesnt have SATA connectors. Had to search PCI > card - most cards are PCIE, which this MB doesnt have. > > Each time I turn around, I find I cannot upgrade or replace this or that, > but that's the trick in PC business: You have to buy a new Computer every > 3 > to 4 years. > > Lembit > BTW, what's PCIX? is it 'extended'? I know extended as PCIE. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jwcolby" > To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'" > > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 7:38 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Performance in disc partitions > > >> ROTFL. Well aren't YOU the grinch! >> >> This actually happened to me with a video card but that was because >> the video card socket type went away. However RAID cards do not use >> video card sockets, they either use PCI or PCIX. PCI might very well >> go away someday soon. PCIX not a chance. Not SOON anyway. >> >> >> John W. Colby >> Colby Consulting >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: > 27.01.2008 18:39 > From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Jan 30 09:41:11 2008 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:41:11 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Presenting GUI's Across the Internet Message-ID: <001101c86356$8a92e880$0300a8c0@danwaters> Hello to all you web experts! I often want to do a 'show and tell' for screen development and changes. This gives me early feedback from a customer and generally makes everyone (including me) a lot happier. I recently signed up for GoToMyPC, but the first customer I tried this with specifically prevents GoToMyPC from going through their firewall. GoToMyPC lets someone else access your PC - so while I'm at my PC they could view what I'm showing or even change things themselves. But it's apparently a corporate firewall issue. GoToMyPC was $15/mo so the price was OK. Does anyone use a web-based app to show screen development? This shouldn't be a firewall issue. Does anyone use BaseCamp from 37Signals? Can this be used for 'show and tells'? Thanks! Dan From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Jan 29 20:07:04 2008 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:07:04 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Lotus Symphony Message-ID: <29f585dd0801291807q2b8e55ob6c131d503ad6fd5@mail.gmail.com> In case anyone missed it, IBM is offering Lotus Symphony (reincarnated) for free download. Now MS Office has a pair of enemies, Open Office over here and Symphony over there. Symphony uses the Open Document Format. A. From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Wed Jan 30 11:00:06 2008 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:00:06 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Lotus Symphony In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0801291807q2b8e55ob6c131d503ad6fd5@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0801291807q2b8e55ob6c131d503ad6fd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Wow, that is a name out of the past. I did a lot of work with symphony back in the day. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 8:07 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Lotus Symphony In case anyone missed it, IBM is offering Lotus Symphony (reincarnated) for free download. Now MS Office has a pair of enemies, Open Office over here and Symphony over there. Symphony uses the Open Document Format. A. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From john at winhaven.net Tue Jan 29 23:35:22 2008 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:35:22 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Server CPU Message-ID: <200801301732.m0UHWT8A019024@databaseadvisors.com> I'm looking at buying a new server. (Dell has their low end units at a good price right now.) It would seem for $50 extra that the Xeon would be a good deal: IntelR Core 2 DuoRE4500, 2.2GHz, 2MB Cache, 800MHz FSB Dual Core IntelR XeonR 3040, 2MB Cache, 1.86GHz, 1066MHz FSB 64 bit ops and a larger FSB. But I wondered if it has any issues with 32 bit ops? Seems to be hard to find info on the Xeon. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. John B. From john at winhaven.net Wed Jan 30 13:41:53 2008 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:41:53 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Lotus Symphony In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200801301941.m0UJflRr007101@databaseadvisors.com> LOL! I have a CPA client who still uses it! I showed her how to convert all of her files to Excel/Word or otherwise and she is doing it slowly - for the last 5 years! My work is rarey boring :o) -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 11:00 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Lotus Symphony Wow, that is a name out of the past. I did a lot of work with symphony back in the day. Jim Hale From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Jan 31 08:36:41 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:36:41 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] IM's Message-ID: <00ad01c86416$bbf6a220$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Do any of you still use IM's? If so, which ones and do you use them productively? What are the security risks? Susan H. From jon.tydda at alcontrol.com Thu Jan 31 08:39:05 2008 From: jon.tydda at alcontrol.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:39:05 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] IM's Message-ID: I use Trillian, which manages MSN, AIM, ICQ and Yahoo connections (yes, I know) without using all my memory. There's no real security risks as long as you only accept files from people you know, and block the "random" people who try to connect to you. They're all pretty good at warning you about those though. Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: 31 January 2008 14:37 To: DBA Tech List Subject: [dba-Tech] IM's Do any of you still use IM's? If so, which ones and do you use them productively? What are the security risks? Susan H. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Jan 31 08:47:18 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:47:18 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] IM's References: Message-ID: <00c301c86418$33df8b20$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Do you really use these connections though? Years ago, I had them, but after the novelty wore off, I never used them. Susan H. >I use Trillian, which manages MSN, AIM, ICQ and Yahoo connections (yes, > I know) without using all my memory. There's no real security risks as > long as you only accept files from people you know, and block the > "random" people who try to connect to you. They're all pretty good at > warning you about those though. > > > Jon > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan > Harkins > Sent: 31 January 2008 14:37 > To: DBA Tech List > Subject: [dba-Tech] IM's > > > Do any of you still use IM's? If so, which ones and do you use them > productively? What are the security risks? > > Susan H. > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jon.tydda at alcontrol.com Thu Jan 31 08:50:45 2008 From: jon.tydda at alcontrol.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:50:45 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] IM's Message-ID: Yeah, we use MSN at work in the IT dept, and I still have a load of mates who use them. We also play MUDs though, so we're not your "normal" internet users :-) MSN is my main one, I only have Yahoo for one friend, AIM for three, and ICQ because it was the first one I had. Don't think I've seen anyone on there for ages though, although it's not a problem when you only have one program to manage the connections. They all signin together, and the windows are the same. Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: 31 January 2008 14:47 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] IM's Do you really use these connections though? Years ago, I had them, but after the novelty wore off, I never used them. Susan H. >I use Trillian, which manages MSN, AIM, ICQ and Yahoo connections (yes, >I know) without using all my memory. There's no real security risks as >long as you only accept files from people you know, and block the >"random" people who try to connect to you. They're all pretty good at >warning you about those though. > > > Jon > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan > Harkins > Sent: 31 January 2008 14:37 > To: DBA Tech List > Subject: [dba-Tech] IM's > > > Do any of you still use IM's? If so, which ones and do you use them > productively? What are the security risks? > > Susan H. > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Thu Jan 31 10:47:42 2008 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 08:47:42 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] IM's In-Reply-To: <00ad01c86416$bbf6a220$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Message-ID: <004201c86429$0056bba0$6d01a8c0@Kathryn> Susan asked: > Do any of you still use IM's? If so, which ones and do you > use them productively? What are the security risks? I use frequenty with clients. 99% of the time MSN though I have AIM and Yahoo for a couple. One of the benefits is you can set up a log of the conversations (at least with MSN, haven't checked the other two). I periodically need to refer back to a previous conversation. Another thing I find of benefit with one particular client for whom I do testing, is that I use PrintKey2000 to capture a screen image, then paste it into the conversation so he can see the error I'm getting without my having to go back and forth to type it up. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.16/1251 - Release Date: 30 Jan 08 9:29 am From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Jan 31 10:52:59 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:52:59 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] IM's References: <004201c86429$0056bba0$6d01a8c0@Kathryn> Message-ID: <003c01c8642a$321a0830$4b3a8343@SusanOne> I didn't know you could even do that! Thanks Charlotte! Susan H. > Susan asked: >> Do any of you still use IM's? If so, which ones and do you >> use them productively? What are the security risks? > > I use frequenty with clients. 99% of the time MSN though I have AIM and > Yahoo for a couple. One of the benefits is you can set up a log of the > conversations (at least with MSN, haven't checked the other two). I > periodically need to refer back to a previous conversation. Another thing > I find of benefit with one particular client for whom I do testing, is > that I use PrintKey2000 to capture a screen image, then paste it into the > conversation so he can see the error I'm getting without my having to go > back and forth to type it up. > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.16/1251 - Release Date: 30 Jan > 08 9:29 am > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Jan 31 10:56:06 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:56:06 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] IM's References: <004201c86429$0056bba0$6d01a8c0@Kathryn> Message-ID: <003d01c8642a$35fe9560$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Charlotte, can you paste any image into a conversation or is there something special about PrintKey 2000? Susan H. Another thing I find of benefit with one particular client for whom I do testing, is that I use PrintKey2000 to capture a screen image, then paste it into the conversation so he can see the error I'm getting without my having to go back and forth to type it up. From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Jan 31 12:54:10 2008 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:54:10 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] IM's References: <004201c86429$0056bba0$6d01a8c0@Kathryn> <003d01c8642a$35fe9560$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Message-ID: <00d701c8643a$ac322f70$0202a8c0@Laptop> Kathryn, Susan, it's Kathryn. Unless Charlotte is Kathryn. Hmm :) Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] IM's > Charlotte, can you paste any image into a conversation or is there > something > special about PrintKey 2000? > > Susan H. > > Another thing I find of benefit with one particular client for whom I do > testing, is that I use PrintKey2000 to capture a screen image, then paste > it > into the conversation so he can see the error I'm getting without my > having > to go back and forth to type it up. > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Jan 31 13:05:36 2008 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:05:36 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] IM's References: <004201c86429$0056bba0$6d01a8c0@Kathryn><003d01c8642a$35fe9560$4b3a8343@SusanOne> <00d701c8643a$ac322f70$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: <00c601c8643c$51133dd0$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Kathryn, I beg your pardon! ;) Susan H. > Kathryn, Susan, it's Kathryn. > > Unless Charlotte is Kathryn. Hmm :) From kathryn at bassett.net Thu Jan 31 17:08:32 2008 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:08:32 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] IM's In-Reply-To: <003d01c8642a$35fe9560$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Message-ID: <000001c8645e$33710f10$6d01a8c0@Kathryn> It's me, Kathryn, who posted about PrintKey2000, and nothing special about it. Anything that you use to copy something onto your clipboard will do. > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Susan Harkins > Sent: 31 Jan 2008 8:56 am > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] IM's > > Charlotte, can you paste any image into a conversation or is > there something special about PrintKey 2000? > > Susan H. > > Another thing I find of benefit with one particular client > for whom I do testing, is that I use PrintKey2000 to capture > a screen image, then paste it into the conversation so he can > see the error I'm getting without my having to go back and > forth to type it up. > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.17/1253 - Release > Date: 31 Jan 08 9:09 am > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.17/1253 - Release Date: 31 Jan 08 9:09 am