Jim Lawrence
accessd at shaw.ca
Wed Mar 31 11:42:18 CDT 2010
I worked for the government in a number of different capacities. In one of my middle evolutions my contract job was to build various applications in FoxPro, Access and a bunch of other strange languages. A new and wonderful product (and I can not remember its name as I never touched it) emerged as the backup system of choice and it was picked by all the ministries. It had an extensive librarian system designed in the backup module so not only could it do flawless backups you could trace every version...complete version control was the mantra of the day. The output as you would expect was massive, so massive that a department was setup to just handle backups. Then a major server crash. It seems that the air-conditioning system flooded a computer room. For some reason many of the drive controllers failed, some could not be replaced as they were discontinued product lines and the system had to be brought up immediately. So new computers were bought but they could not read the old drives... No problem there was always the backups. It was discovered that many of the backups would not work especially the older ones. It seemed that their prize backup software company had been improving their product all along and at one point it was no more backward compatible. In summary, it took months to resolve, the backup product was decommissioned and the government reverted either to, backing up with the Microsoft backup systems or ran everything through their UNIX servers. At least in the Linux/Unix world there are some standards and most systems are OpenSource...and most importantly open source code... and never again proprietary backup systems. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:27 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Symantec Backup Exec My husband, Steven, claims that the whole issue of system backups REALLY belongs under umbrella of the 'Dark Arts'... Janet Erbach On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 8:07 AM, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote: > Hi Max: > > When it comes to doing an image backup I personally use DriveImageXML > imbedded in a version of BartsPE distro. Because it is so important to get > the image right and to be able to confidentially know that the image will > create a perfect booting drive, I stick with slightly dated system. > > The one type of drive that can not be imaged correctly is some drive that > has used data compression...but not even Acronis can do that, counter to > their claims. > > In most cases when it comes to backing up a clients systems beyond that I > use what ever they have locally which in most cases turns out to be their > MS > backup. That is because I have great concerns when it comes to proprietary > systems. In many cases, a custom package ends up costing continuous > updates, > which do not get maintained or/and do not end up being used properly by the > local staff and the original media has a habit of getting lost...etc. > > Most sites are really very stable, especially when it comes to servers. > Major updates are done in blocks and then a new image. After that the data > is most important and to that I have been working with a friend to > implement > a remote backup service... $79.00 a month up to 500GB and this uses the new > LogMeIn backup service... uses a distributive synchronization method. (Only > backing up data changes so it is very fast.) > > I tend to wear suspender and a belt when it comes to backups and very > conservative on what software I use... I only use software that I have > watched complete a successful restoration. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:45 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Symantec Backup Exec > > Jim, > > What do you use for the image? > What do you use for the incremental backups following the image? > > Ta > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:50 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Symantec Backup Exec > > Hi Janet: > > A system does not need a full image backup continuously. I traditionally > use > an image backup to set a 'Tomb Stone' and then just have the backups app > doing a regular backup. In the event of a major set of updates of system > configuration then an image can be redone. If a full restore is ever > required then the image backup is first used to rebuild a fully bootable > drive and the regular backs are use to restore the current status. > > There is something that seems to not be common knowledge: > > First; a fully bootable image of a drive can not be created while a system > is running. The system must be stopped then booted from a DVD/Memory stick > with your favourite Image backup application on it and then the full image > can be created. > > Second; products that claim they can do a full image while the system is > running are not telling the whole truth. There is only one way they can > even > start a backup and that is by either having exclusive use of the drives, > not > practical on an operation server or do a Shadow backup. Neither of those > methods are complete on an operational drive. > > Third; a Shadow backup is a backup created from the system's duplication > method. Those duplicated file tend to be sporadic especially on a very > active server and image does not end up with any of the primary drive info > or boot track information as it can not be duplicated while the system is > running...also having Shadow Copy feature running on an OS drive sucks up > recourses like crazy. For those and other reasons Shadow Copies should > never > be used on the boot drive...only on data drives. > > HTH > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:28 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Symantec Backup Exec > > Jim - > > Like you, we've been backing up to a portable device and taking the disks > off-site using Casper. But I was told last week that Casper does not > provide a truly bootable image for SBS 2008. > > I guess I balk at the standard Windows backup from an ease of > recoverability > standpoint in a total server crash. I like the idea of backups that > provide > a bootable image that can be restored onto another machine without having > to > re-install every bit of software. I've never been in that kind of > dead-in-the-water situation (thankfully!) so I'm just going by what I > imagine the recovery process to be like. Which, of course, is very likely > way off the mark. Am I putting too much emphasis on the importance of a > bootable image? > > Thanks for the info on logmein - I will look into that more. > > On your client's SBS 2008 machine...do you happen to know what the base > line > day-to-day memory usage is? Ours is running at around 12gb out of 16 > total...and I'm starting to think that 2008 is such a resource pig that it > really does require that much. I would be curious to know if your client's > machine runs like that as well. > > Janet > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com